From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 02:08:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA178DOL006893 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:08:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA177ZcC007223; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:07:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA177YpD007956; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:07:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA177VpD007920 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:07:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4840425D0 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:12:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FA35C45.2060707@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 01:09:57 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair References: <200311010642.hA16gON10408@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200311010642.hA16gON10408@gw.retro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > Then there's the elizabethan habit of plucking the _hairline_ as well to > create a high brow (no plucking required for me). I went looking a couple months ago on that, and I am now wondering if this isn't one of those 'costume myths' that's being repeated in books. Granted, I didn't do exhaustive research, just looked through a dozen or two portraits in history and art books from the period, but it didn't seem like foreheads were being plucked to me. The line in the supposedly plucked portraits wasn't noticeably higher than the non-plucked portraits. I did notice in some portraits the sitter seemed to have had the hair at her temples either shaved or plucked. This didn't make a higher forehead, but it did create a *wider* one. I was looking at hairstyles and hats at the time, and I also remember in one book the author was repeatedly pointing out that married women covered their hair and only unmarried women wore it loose, and that blanket statement really started bugging me too, but that's a completely different topic for investigation.... Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 03:10:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA18APOL028609 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 03:10:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA189kcC009304; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 01:09:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA189hUp003494; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 01:09:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA189eUp003467 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 01:09:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.249.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.249] helo=4gxif) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AFqpI-0002Wo-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 03:09:40 -0500 Message-ID: <018c01c3a04f$85bfb5a0$f9f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031031004237.05107ad0@mail.frys.com> <02ad01c39f51$b4d919c0$93f74a43@4gxif> <4.3.1.2.20031031223415.00d90420@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Was Clocks now Graph Paper Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 03:09:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I originally posted the site, I noted that it was customizable. You need to be in the design menu, and select "standard rectangular". In this menu, click on "change" for the abscissa and/or ordinate, and make adjustments in the scale menu. For example, to produce a 2x3 horizontal grid (height by width), change the abscissa minor line to 2 and major line to 3, and the ordinate major and minor lines to 2. This will give you paper with the minor boxes (outlined in blue) made up of a 2x2 square, and the major boxes (outlined in black) made up of a 2x3 of the smaller 2x2 boxes. For a 3x2 vertical grid, reverse it. Any ratio is possible; just make the appropriate adjustments to the abscissas and ordinates. Having explored the other formats this evening, I'm seriously impressed with how many variations are available in each. Pretty sophisticated and nice to have. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 04:05:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA195QOL014654 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 04:05:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA194mcC011265; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:04:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA194kRO025505; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:04:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA194iRO025495 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:04:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNO006XW17WYH@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 01:04:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 00:32:14 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een In-reply-to: <3FA358FC.5080805@reddawn.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031101003136.00b07290@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200311010626.hA16QUR10278@gw.retro.com> <200311010626.hA16QUR10278@gw.retro.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:55 AM 11/1/2003 -0600, you wrote: >I got a picture... > > >http://www.reddawn.net/costume/halloween/Mvc-877f.jpg Hi Dawn, Ooooohhhhh, pretty. I am definitely thinking of purple or magenta for my Victorians now. Thanks for sharing!! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 04:05:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA195cOL014739 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 04:05:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1951cC011279; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1951RO025594; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA194jRO025501 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 02:04:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNO006XW17WYH@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 01:04:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 01:05:31 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een In-reply-to: <200311010626.hA16QUR10278@gw.retro.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031101005907.029526d8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:26 PM 10/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I decorate my front porch every year and sit out >there. The kids love it and it keeps the older teenagers from vandalizing >the neighborhood if they know an adult is outside and watching. Hi Lee Thanks for sharing what you did. I had my first real Halloween ever in 37 years (long story), but with minor decorations. However, I already want to do more for our front porch next year. I know it isn't costuming specifically, but how do you balance black light and regular light? My black lights were too dark, so I had to add in regular lights just to let people know our home was open for trick or treating. And thanks for that GID polymer clay info. I am going to have to look for some of that. If you have any photos of tonight's setup, I would love to see them. And to make it costume related, how does one deal with wearing black costumes, yet not appear to disappear into the night? And I hope you all had a Happy Halloween, I know I sure did. Kimiko Basking in the glow of a good Halloween evening. Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 05:14:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1AE9OL008984 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 05:14:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1ADTcC013765; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 03:13:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1ADQVY020186; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 03:13:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta02bw.bigpond.com (mta02bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1ADMVY020036 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 03:13:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from clarke ([144.135.24.87]) by mta02bw.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HNO00MMF4DXKR@mta02bw.email.bigpond.com> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 20:13:09 +1000 (EST) Received: from cvpp-p-144-134-113-185.prem.tmns.net.au ([144.134.113.185]) by bwmam07.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 56/24002804); Sat, 01 Nov 2003 20:13:08 +0000 Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 21:13:05 +1100 From: Purple Elephant Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair To: Historical Costume Message-id: <00c701c3a060$bebd7de0$b9718690@clarke> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <200311010642.hA16gON10408@gw.retro.com> <3FA35C45.2060707@reddawn.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair > Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > > Then there's the elizabethan habit of plucking the _hairline_ as well to > > create a high brow (no plucking required for me). > > > I went looking a couple months ago on that, and I am now wondering if > this isn't one of those 'costume myths' that's being repeated in books. > Granted, I didn't do exhaustive research, just looked through a dozen or > two portraits in history and art books from the period, but it didn't > seem like foreheads were being plucked to me. The line in the supposedly > plucked portraits wasn't noticeably higher than the non-plucked portraits. > I can't say I've ever noticed it in Elizabethan portraits, but they definitely plucked the forehead under 15th century hennins. Those hairlines go back so far! I often curse my low forehead looking at them and think 'I am not plucking my forehead, I am not plucking my forehead....'. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 06:16:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1BGqOL011062 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 06:16:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1BFLcC016026; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 04:15:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1BFJwm011138; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 04:15:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1BFGwm011119 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 04:15:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hA1BH9B11334 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 03:17:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 03:17:09 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200311011117.hA1BH9B11334@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > > I know it isn't costuming specifically, but how do you balance black light > and regular light? My black lights were too dark, so I had to add in > regular lights just to let people know our home was open for trick or treating. Our house is L-shaped, and there's a set of lights at the corner of the garage. I made sure those were on. I also put a portable worklight out, clipped to the underside of the roof gutter. It was pointed out on the yard, not our porch, so it lit up the place, but didn't destroy my Lab area. I also had blue rope lights as part of the lab bench setup which gave some light. And then two 18" blacklight fixtures and a CF blacklight bulb in the porch light fixture. Ah, and a rotating multicolored light that has a whopping 4 watt nightlight bulb in it. I plan to buy a couple of the blacklight flashlights for next year and use them selectively. Sparky our late lab assistant looks great under blacklight, but since I have to sit him on the edge of the porch, he usually doesn't get much of the light. A very small blacklight taped to the railing above him would fix the problem. Same with the plastic cylinder. Though there's been a popular motion for me to put a brain inside that contraption next time around. You can see last year's photos on this page: http://gw.retro.com/employees/lee/AtomicJackalope.html I was still using one blue set and one white set of rope lights when those photos were taken. The white ones tended to wash out my blacklight effects, I found. And the rotating light had a 15watt bulb in in back then (found the bulb broken last night and stuck the first one that would fit into it this afternoon). Both those changes helped give me a consistant light level that could be seen on the street, but didn't wash out my blacklights. The blue glowing stuff in the flasks is tonic water, by the way. The quinine in it glows blue under UV light. The lightning ball stand is styrofoam painted with black acrylic and glow paint (I bought glow pigment from Terror By Design, a haunted house supplier. http://www.terrorbydesign.com/ The DNA model is a kid's styrofoam kit that I painted with Hot Shots UV reactive acrylic paints. I mixed some of the Hot Shots red in with a regular red acrylic paint to do the big glowing ZERO on the "This lab has worked [0] days since the last fatal accident" sign. It looks like a very bright red under normal light, unlike the dayglow red which has a pink cast to it. > > And thanks for that GID polymer clay info. I am going to have to look for > some of that. I like Premo brand the best. It's easier to work than Fimo, and is considerably stronger than any of the other brands. It's also completely compatible with translucent liquid Sculpey (made by the same company), which can be used to "glue" clay components together or reinforce thinner pieces. I actually bought the glow Primo, then added more of that glow pigment powder and some TLS. It means it's a very soft clay, but the advantage is that I can use brass stampings as molds more easily than I could with a stiffer clay. For more on polymer clay, faux gemstones, molds, faux ceramics (you can make some impressive victorian "painted china" effects with it), and techniques, see the Glass Attic: http://www.glassattic.com/ > And to make it costume related, how does one deal with wearing black > costumes, yet not appear to disappear into the night? You can add small details, like metallic or light-colored trims. Or if you're doing fantasy stuff, you can branch out into glow pigments/paints/clays and lighted detailing. You can now buy plug'n'play electroluminescent wire kits (ELwire from here out), self-contained LED blinkers of innumerable sorts, LED and EL pannel kits, and even small cold cathode neon tubes. The WorldCon photos on my page are actually kind of tame, since both those costumes aquired even more blinkie lights later on. Ah, and don't forget retroreflective tapes, trims and vinyl patches. There's now "stealth" retroreflective tapes, which are black, blue, green, red, yellow, and even purple now. They don't "flash" until light hits them dead on in a dark environment. I have some 3M Solas tape on my wheelchair's flag, and one of the photos they took, the flash off the tape looks like a spotlight. I've got retroreflective tape glued onto the straps of my cheapie buckle boots (hey, $40 at Hot Topic). The other thing I did for the Rats at their last gig (the Exotic Erotic Ball), was to do face paints. We used UV reactive face paint (Kryolan makes one that simply makes you look pale until you hit the blacklights). So they all had very pale faces, then black domino masks around the eyes, and details painted in blue UV reactive paint (also transclucent until UV light hits it). One of the girls had me draw "666" on her forehead. And our balding english gentleman had me write "VOID" across his ever-increasing forehead. ;} Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 08:09:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1D9cOL011663 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 08:09:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1D92cC000980; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 06:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1D9098004125; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 06:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [63.251.216.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1D8w98004115 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 06:08:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from megan2 (pcp06940299pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.19.18]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 129EE15C51 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 05:09:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Marc Carlson's Medieval shoes book Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 08:13:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I for one am eagerly awaiting your book and would like you to post the order/pre-order info here as soon as it is available. Shoes are one of the things I have not tackled yet, and my garb would look so much better if I did. Please write as fast as practical, so we can learn. Thanks so much for posting here!!!! And I think a nice plain outfit, tunic/trews would not detract from the book at all. As long as the person's clothing was not too flashy, just plain work clothes, it should work just fine from my viewpoint. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 09:23:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1EN8OL012368 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 09:23:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1EMWcC004853; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:22:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1EMTKZ000910; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:22:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1EMRKZ000883 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:22:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m220.in-tch.com [216.166.191.220]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hA1E1Rc26338 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:01:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FA3C233.FD197EDE@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 07:24:51 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een References: <3FA2D166.7050300@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd planned on doing a pirate outfit (arrr) for work, but ran out of time. I have the pattern for a tricorn hat, beads for my hair, and I was going to base my outfit on 18th c. patterns, which I don't often get to play with. Oh well, maybe next year! --sue Dawn wrote: > > What are you dressing up as tonight? > > My husband and I and two of our best friends all did late Victorian this > year, 1893-ish. I hope the photos come out! > > Dawn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 09:53:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1EroOL012682 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 09:53:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1Er8cC006686; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:53:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1Er6KZ014505; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:53:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1Er4KZ014443 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:53:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m220.in-tch.com [216.166.191.220]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hA1EW5c08687 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:32:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FA3C961.A1D7E5@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 07:55:29 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: How the linen that we love came to be what it is.-some RussianHistory References: <000c01c39fd7$e2249860$6501a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, cool. Thanks for sharing. --sue, who regularly melts plastic at fabrics-store.com "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > > Thought I would send this along for you Russian and Linen buffs. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 11:28:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1GSZOL013436 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:28:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1GRxcC012384; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 09:27:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1GRtKp025530; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 09:27:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1GRrKp025462 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 09:27:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA1GRjq30712 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:27:45 -0500 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 08:33:45 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <2987A2D8-0C89-11D8-9B93-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I went as Snow White. I spent about 40 hours on the costume based on a Moretto painting. :D But in the red/blue/yellow color scheme. It's quite fetching, if I do say so myself. :) Althea On Friday, October 31, 2003, at 01:26 PM, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > We aren't dressing up tonight, but, last Saturday and this Wed. and > Thursday, > we wore costumes based on early 19th century exotic or historic dress > as > pictured in Aileen Ribeiro's "Art of Dress." Mine is based on the > 1805 Lawrence > portrait of Lady Elizabeth Foster as a sybil (I'm Pomono--goddess of > the > harvest) and Jim's based on the Beechey 1798 portrait of Thomas Hope > in "Turkish or > Armenian" (her words; I understand they don't have a great deal in > common) > dress. > My outfit consists of an underdress of golden yellow linen top, to > give the > effect of a chemise, and skirt of ecru pleated polyester (I cheated to > get the > permanently-pleated fabric.) Overdress is a cream brocade overprinted > with > fruits in gold, maroon, and olive green, with a shaped overskirt of > maroon > charmeuse. I draped an olive green silk square over one arm, and made > a wreath of > fruits and leaves. > My husband wore a white shirt without the ruffle, pinned shut about > halfway > down, with a red, gold, and black silk brocade vest, red linen > trousers, black > silk sash, and outrageously large turban in gold silk with a large red > and > gold tassel. > Ann wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 12:05:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1H5IOL013751 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:05:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1H4fcC014288; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:04:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1H4d5e012260; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:04:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1H4a5e012240 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:04:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-171.75.244.236.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.244.236] helo=Dan) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AFzAx-0004xn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 12:04:36 -0500 Message-ID: <014601c3a09a$475582e0$ecf44bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FA2D166.7050300@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:04:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What are you dressing up as tonight? Wore a yellow oriental theme robe and panel coat at the office. Gypsy witch at a friend's theme party (The Seven Year Witch). Genie _________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 12:10:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1HANOL013791 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:10:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1H9fcC014491; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:09:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1H9e5e014541; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:09:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1H9b5e014513 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:09:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-58-166.jps.net ([209.165.58.166] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AFzFo-0000tO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 09:09:37 -0800 Message-ID: <002601c3a09b$9cd9cb80$a63aa5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 09:14:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] 16th century prayer books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hA1HANOL013791 Status: RO Hi Folks, Have any of you out there researched the area of 16th century Englis prayer books?..... The ones found almost as fashion accessories in portraits. I'd like to obtain a few of the texts commonly used in these books from EEBO and make a few prayer books up and I'm not sure which texts were commonly used. Psalms I would image, anything else? Did the contents change after the split with Rome? Any websites you can direct me to? Thanks, Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 12:18:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1HIeOL013911 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:18:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1HI3cC014908; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1HI15e018438; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA1HHx5e018377 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:17:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3Qfd2YutgydgejiXlgGdvVPSH3dBBbq9rg==">; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 09:17:00 PST Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JDWTTSGF; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 09:17:00 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:21:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een Message-ID: <20031101.102133.1484.1.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-11,16-19,21-23 From: btana@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 08:33:45 -0800 Althea Turner writes: > I went as Snow White. I spent about 40 hours on the costume based on > a > Moretto painting. :D But in the red/blue/yellow color scheme. > It's > quite fetching, if I do say so myself. :) > Althea > Just went to a friend's last night. Hubby and I were both mage/sorcerers. His fit in more wiith our group of barbarians while mine was from the Thieve's World series of books. I'll post pictures on my site soon. (Still need to get the picture of the Sailor Scouts from Sailor Moon.) Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/tul_juriss - for links to ALL my current sites http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde - costumes I've made http://www.geocities.com/house_qul_mupwi - The noble Klingon House http://www.geocities.com/klingon_pirates_guild - The Klingon Pirate's Guild ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 12:55:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1HtFOL014100 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:55:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1HsbcC017283; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:54:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1HsU5e005367; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:54:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1HsQ5f005327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:54:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA1I0f0e030023 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:00:42 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 09:54:40 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <001601c38ee3$929d2b40$8d28a5d1@pavilion> Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa, I don't know how I managed to miss this message in the continuing saga of Ms. Penelope Chalk, entrepreneur extraordinaire! I must admit that I doubt that she would even make her investment back in CD's since there aren't many of us out there willing to pay money for "dusty old history" but it's a great thought. I just found out that one of my local University Libraries just got an EEBO subscription. Can't access from home though. Were you asked to sign a copyright agreement? I wasn't. Regina/Wanda > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:04 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] the difficulty > inobtainingandsharingprimarycostumingsources > > > Fran wrote: > > > > But, I thought the EEBO copies were covered by a licensing agreement, > > which is a different form of legal protection (you agree contractually > > to certain terms of use). > > > Yes, but Miss Penelope Chalk was not party to the agreement that existed > between me and the EEBO folks and unfortunately the EEBO didn't respond to > the "found item" advertisement in the local newspaper. I heard > she started > a rival EEBO service with a lower subscription price, earned truckloads of > money, and ran the original EEBO out of business. After she > purchased their > database software for a pittance, she jacked up the price of subscriptions > and earned bucketloads more money from the movie rights she sold to her > story and established a Rockefeller like foundation to support the arts. > > Lisa > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 13:16:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1IGtOL014327 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:16:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1IGGcC018537; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:16:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1IGFvN015247; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:16:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1IGDvN015238 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:16:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-51-074.jps.net ([209.165.51.74]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AG0IH-0004PL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:16:13 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20031029195610.43755.qmail@web60310.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:31:24 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Clocks (was Re: Hose/stockings) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a periodic-reminder kind of thingy that people interested in historic knitting (including stockings) are welcome on the HistoricKnit mailing list. (It's not nearly as active as this one.) It's in YahooGroups at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricKnit You do have to be a member to read the files, which means registering with Yahoo (which doesn't work for some people, either computer-wise or because they don't want to give out personal information). -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 13:26:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1IQdOL014495 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:26:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1IPwcC019037; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:25:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1IPsvN019349; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:25:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1IPqvN019333 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:25:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-57-242.jps.net ([209.165.57.242] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AG0Rb-0003On-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 10:25:51 -0800 Message-ID: <001001c3a0a6$43dedc40$f239a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:30:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had a proquest trial through a living history society I'm associated with. I suspect the first person who logs on to the proquest trial has an agreement they must adhere to which said books were not to be republished and were for research only or something similar. I think it said any republishing required the permission of proquest and the owner of the book. Since I'm not really interested in republishing myself, I didn't print the licensing agreement out so I can't refer back to it. No doubt, the University Library had some agreement they had to agree to upon obtaining the subscription, perhaps the individual user never sees this. What I attempted to say when I first started this thread, was that I did have access to the EEBO and downloaded quite a number of books that might be of interest to those on this list and while the licensing agreement prohibits me from republishing them, so they won't be appearing on my website, if any of you folks are researching something and are looking for a reference, please do contact me as I now have around 1400 books from the 16th and 17th centuries and may be able to assist you. Cheers, Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 9:54 AM Subject: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! > Lisa, I don't know how I managed to miss this message in the continuing saga > of Ms. Penelope Chalk, entrepreneur extraordinaire! I must admit that I > doubt that she would even make her investment back in CD's since there > aren't many of us out there willing to pay money for "dusty old history" but > it's a great thought. > > I just found out that one of my local University Libraries just got an EEBO > subscription. Can't access from home though. > > Were you asked to sign a copyright agreement? I wasn't. > > Regina/Wanda > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 13:28:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1IS3OL014511 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:28:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1IRVcC019149; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:27:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1IRUvN020085; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:27:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1IRKvN019968 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:27:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.b0.407ad6ce (16781) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:27:05 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:27:05 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/1/2003 4:05:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: And to make it costume related, how does one deal with wearing black costumes, yet not appear to disappear into the night? I'm not sure where they're available, but if you want the "quick" version (as much as reflective tape, reactive paint, and LEDs are really cool, occasionally one runs out of time), apparently they (they being stores like Party City, likely) sell blinking/flashing bicycle type lights that you can hook onto the costume. They're meant to make store-bought costumes flash and whatnot, I suppose. Actually, idea: Make a bicycle costume, and use those as part of it? If you'd like to relate it to "historical", make a really old-fashioned bike, but add those so that your costume doesn't get barged into. Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 13:56:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1IusOL014718 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:56:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1It0cM020828; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:56:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1ImavN001640; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:48:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1ImXvN001618 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:48:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-64-160-176-113.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.113]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5770F2F98B for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:52:08 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: <2987A2D8-0C89-11D8-9B93-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> References: <2987A2D8-0C89-11D8-9B93-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:48:29 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO oooh, do share a photo with us of you and the original painting. I was going to go as the Fashon Police, but I came down with a bad cold :( .heather. On Nov 1, 2003, at 8:33 AM, Althea Turner wrote: > I went as Snow White. I spent about 40 hours on the costume based on > a Moretto painting. :D But in the red/blue/yellow color scheme. > It's quite fetching, if I do say so myself. :) > Althea > > On Friday, October 31, 2003, at 01:26 PM, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > >> We aren't dressing up tonight, but, last Saturday and this Wed. and >> Thursday, >> we wore costumes based on early 19th century exotic or historic dress >> as >> pictured in Aileen Ribeiro's "Art of Dress." Mine is based on the >> 1805 Lawrence >> portrait of Lady Elizabeth Foster as a sybil (I'm Pomono--goddess of >> the >> harvest) and Jim's based on the Beechey 1798 portrait of Thomas Hope >> in "Turkish or >> Armenian" (her words; I understand they don't have a great deal in >> common) >> dress. >> My outfit consists of an underdress of golden yellow linen top, to >> give the >> effect of a chemise, and skirt of ecru pleated polyester (I cheated >> to get the >> permanently-pleated fabric.) Overdress is a cream brocade >> overprinted with >> fruits in gold, maroon, and olive green, with a shaped overskirt of >> maroon >> charmeuse. I draped an olive green silk square over one arm, and >> made a wreath of >> fruits and leaves. >> My husband wore a white shirt without the ruffle, pinned shut about >> halfway >> down, with a red, gold, and black silk brocade vest, red linen >> trousers, black >> silk sash, and outrageously large turban in gold silk with a large >> red and >> gold tassel. >> Ann wass >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > Althea Turner > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 14:12:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1JCDOL014886 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:12:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1JBZcC021701; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:11:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1JBYnM011783; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:11:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from jetspin.drizzle.com (jetspin.drizzle.com [216.162.192.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1JBVnN011756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:11:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from negoth (12-235-148-217.client.attbi.com [12.235.148.217]) (authenticated bits=0) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA1JBMoJ009760 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:11:24 -0800 From: "Sablerose" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] hair Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:18:34 -0800 Message-ID: <003401c3a0ac$fa428b70$0200a8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <00c701c3a060$bebd7de0$b9718690@clarke> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have it on good authority from someone who has worn a properly constructed 15th century hennin that plucking wasn't necessary. The hennin takes care of removing hair from that area for you! She's still growing her bangs back.... Tayla ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair > Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > > Then there's the elizabethan habit of plucking the _hairline_ as well to > > create a high brow (no plucking required for me). > > > I went looking a couple months ago on that, and I am now wondering if > this isn't one of those 'costume myths' that's being repeated in books. > Granted, I didn't do exhaustive research, just looked through a dozen or > two portraits in history and art books from the period, but it didn't > seem like foreheads were being plucked to me. The line in the supposedly > plucked portraits wasn't noticeably higher than the non-plucked portraits. > I can't say I've ever noticed it in Elizabethan portraits, but they definitely plucked the forehead under 15th century hennins. Those hairlines go back so far! I often curse my low forehead looking at them and think 'I am not plucking my forehead, I am not plucking my forehead....'. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 15:01:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1K1KOL015554 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:01:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1K0icC024492; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:00:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1K0fdv004151; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:00:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1K0cdw004105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:00:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA1K17OS004632 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:01:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA1K17B7004630 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:01:07 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:01:06 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200311010642.hA16gON10408@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200311010642.hA16gON10408@gw.retro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311011501.06720.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 01 November 2003 01:42 am, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > Kimiko Small wrote: > > Eyebrows? Why eyebrows? And how would modern eyebrows be anachronistic? > > This is an area I hadn't heard of before. > > There have been many fashionable eyebrow shapes in history. Goodness, > just look at glamour photos from the last 60 or 70 years, and you'll see > a huge difference by time period. From the 20s straight brow to the 40s > almost-invisible high arch, to the late 70s fashion model wings, to the > 80s bushy brows. Current fashion appears to be to biased towards a > slightly heavier, angle-shaped brow, rather than an arched or straight one. Or, of course, one can choose to be unfashionable for all periods simply by *not* plucking her brows. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 15:13:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1KD4OL015605 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:13:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1KCTcC025293; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:12:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1KCSdv009551; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:12:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1KCPdv009494 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:12:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.130.2731e0d9 (25711) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:12:16 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <130.2731e0d9.2cd56da0@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:12:16 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Luther To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/31/03 7:15:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kitsune242@aol.com writes: Has anyone seen this movie? Yes, unfortunately. Some nice costumes though. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 15:28:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1KSuOL015751 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:28:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1KSCcC026099; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:28:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1KS9dv016659; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:28:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1KS5dv016612 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:28:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A751EB04C0; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 14:28:01 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th century prayer books Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:28:01 -0600 Message-ID: <000901c3a0b6$a5c32eb0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <002601c3a09b$9cd9cb80$a63aa5d1@pavilion> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Don't know about prayer books, but I bought the exhibition catalog from the Kimball museum's exhibit on "Books of Hours"- they each had a collection of certain hymns for certain days, basic bible lessons, entire calendars of what prayer to say on which hours of which days- many illustrations seasonally linked to the calendar presented, that sort of thing. Any help? I can get you probably a link or two to the museum.. Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:14 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] 16th century prayer books Hi Folks, Have any of you out there researched the area of 16th century Englis prayer books?..... The ones found almost as fashion accessories in portraits. I'd like to obtain a few of the texts commonly used in these books from EEBO and make a few prayer books up and I'm not sure which texts were commonly used. Psalms I would image, anything else? Did the contents change after the split with Rome? Any websites you can direct me to? Thanks, Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 16:00:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1L0YOL016098 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 16:00:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1KxscC027735; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:59:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1KxqgL001143; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:59:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1KxogL001123 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:59:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-64-160-176-113.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.113]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D75FE2F964 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:03:24 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: <200310312000.12665.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <006901c39ffb$b11f92f0$3d48ccd1@Kass> <200310312000.12665.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <53F9D250-0CAE-11D8-A468-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:59:48 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Warp printing and Ikat are the not same thing, though they are similar. Ikat is tie dying the warp threads, warp printing is.. printing them. Every example of "watered silk" I have seen in *modern* textiles has been warp printed to create a watery effect. I realize that is not the same as the historical look or definition, and I apologize for the confusion. But be aware if you see "watered silk" for sale from an upholsterer, that's probably what it is. .heather. On Oct 31, 2003, at 5:00 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Friday 31 October 2003 05:09 pm, Kass McGann wrote: >> Nope. That's another technique. I always called it "warp printed" but >> there's >> a Japanese name for it too. It creates a fuzzy, out of focus pattern, >> usually >> of flowers. >> >> It's called "ikat" and that's not actually the Japanese name for it. >> I >> believe it was originally a Middle Eastern technique. > > Huh. I thought the term "ikat" it was Indonesian. > > At any event, the use of ikat is not confined to silk. It's also done > with > cotton, particularly in Indonesia and other parts of SE Asia. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven > Wright > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 16:10:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1LAUOL016156 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 16:10:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1L9scC028230; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:09:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1L9qgL005665; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:09:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1L9ngM005596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:09:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-160.sonic.net [209.148.112.160]) (authenticated bits=0)hA1L9gtq030082 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:09:43 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA421BE.2010600@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:12:30 -0800 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! References: <001001c3a0a6$43dedc40$f239a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <001001c3a0a6$43dedc40$f239a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ProQuest's agreement is readily available on the home page of their website. Here is a link to it: http://wwwlib.umi.com/eebo/terms If you have any further questions, I'd suggest contacting ProQuest. I am sure they can explain how their agreement applies to you. And give you any permissionsthey wish to give that are legally necessary. There is no need to remain in the dark about what another party's rights are, or what they would give you permision to do, when you can easily ask them. Fran Lisa Sinervo wrote: >I had a proquest trial through a living history society I'm associated with. >I suspect the first person who logs on to the proquest trial has an >agreement they must adhere to which said books were not to be republished >and were for research only or something similar. > > >What I attempted to say when I first started this thread, was that I did >have access to the EEBO and downloaded quite a number of books that might be >of interest to those on this list and while the licensing agreement >prohibits me from republishing them, so they won't be appearing on my >website, if any of you folks are researching something and are looking for a >reference, please do contact me as I now have around 1400 books from the >16th and 17th centuries and may be able to assist you. > >Cheers, > >Lisa Sinervo >www.thrednedlestrete.com > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Wanda Pease" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 9:54 AM >Subject: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! > > > > >>Lisa, I don't know how I managed to miss this message in the continuing >> >> >saga > > >>of Ms. Penelope Chalk, entrepreneur extraordinaire! I must admit that I >>doubt that she would even make her investment back in CD's since there >>aren't many of us out there willing to pay money for "dusty old history" >> >> >but > > >>it's a great thought. >> >>I just found out that one of my local University Libraries just got an >> >> >EEBO > > >>subscription. Can't access from home though. >> >>Were you asked to sign a copyright agreement? I wasn't. >> >>Regina/Wanda >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > -- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 16:29:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1LTaOL016401 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 16:29:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1LStcC029139; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:28:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1LSsgL014188; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:28:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1LSpgL014164 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:28:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.236.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.236] helo=4gxif) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AG3Ig-00051k-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 16:28:50 -0500 Message-ID: <00cb01c3a0bf$26d07820$ecf74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002601c3a09b$9cd9cb80$a63aa5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century prayer books Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 16:28:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa wrote: Have any of you out there researched the area of 16th century Englis prayer books?..... The ones found almost as fashion accessories in portraits. I'd like to obtain a few of the texts commonly used in these books from EEBO and make a few prayer books up and I'm not sure which texts were commonly used. Psalms I would image, anything else? Did the contents change after the split with Rome? Any websites you can direct me to? You mean those elaborately bejeweled and embroidered little books on chains hanging from the waist on those Elizabethan ladies' portraits, right? I can't get my hands on the book with the pictures right now, but I can get my hands on Mirjam Foot's "Studies in the History of Bookbinding". A London bookseller's pricelist gives the following titles for "bookes in hard boards": Foxe's Book of Martyrs, The Psalms (probably the Coverdale translation), the Book of Common Prayer, and the Bible. Other devotional titles probably were available. "Bookes in hard boards" were laced in but not fully bound; they were prepped and ready to be covered by an embroiderer or other artist. The biggest change in the contents was the switch from Latin to English and the newly-written religious books and commentaries after the split from Rome. In the sixteenth century, there was an explosion of printing fueled by both the press and the Reformation. Also, the churches which were part of the Reformation were much more encouraging of literacy and direct access to religious texts. Here's a link to Coverdale's Psalms: http://www.bible-researcher.com/prayerbook1.html I'm pretty sure the others should be on the web, too. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 16:30:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1LUlOL016415 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 16:30:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1LUCcC029218; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:30:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1LUBgL014721; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:30:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from obsidian.spiritone.com (obsidian.spiritone.com [216.99.193.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1LU8gM014701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:30:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0)hA1LViDc001119 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:31:45 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:30:22 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <3FA421BE.2010600@lavoltapress.com> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran, I had no questions about the copyright agreement. I am fully aware of its existence, and have no plans to violate it, even as Ms. Penelope Chalk. I just didn't notice it as I signed in. EEBO has done an incredible job in putting these things out where people can get at them at all. Unlike some repositories who feel that the only good book is a closed one in deep storage. As I noted, I have found a local university that has access. I will download what I need for personal use, skip any attempt to grow rich and influential from selling someone else's attempt to distribute human knowledge from the hands of time. Books are too fragile to depend on one or two copies acting as repositories. A look at the photos of the Library of Sarajevo should be enough to show us all this. Places like EEBO, the Libraries of Spain, and France are to be thanked for their guardianship. I wish the costs could be brought down to a level manageable by the individual and I have said so to Ibo's management. Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Fran Grimble > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:13 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! > > > ProQuest's agreement is readily available on the home page of their > website. Here is a link to it: > > http://wwwlib.umi.com/eebo/terms > > If you have any further questions, I'd suggest contacting ProQuest. I am > sure they can explain how their agreement applies to you. And give you > any permissionsthey wish to give that are legally necessary. There is > no need to remain in the dark about what another party's rights are, or > what they would give you permision to do, when you can easily ask them. > > Fran > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 16:34:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1LYOOL016433 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 16:34:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1LXlcC029448; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:33:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1LXkgL016312; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:33:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1LXigL016291 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:33:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-35-191.jps.net ([209.165.35.191] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AG3NP-00063Z-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:33:44 -0800 Message-ID: <005101c3a0c0$81abf0c0$f239a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001001c3a0a6$43dedc40$f239a5d1@pavilion> <3FA421BE.2010600@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:38:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am only interested in fair use for research sharing but thanks for your suggestion. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fran Grimble" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! > ProQuest's agreement is readily available on the home page of their > website. Here is a link to it: > > http://wwwlib.umi.com/eebo/terms > > If you have any further questions, I'd suggest contacting ProQuest. I am > sure they can explain how their agreement applies to you. And give you > any permissionsthey wish to give that are legally necessary. There is > no need to remain in the dark about what another party's rights are, or > what they would give you permision to do, when you can easily ask them. > > Fran > > Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > >I had a proquest trial through a living history society I'm associated with. > >I suspect the first person who logs on to the proquest trial has an > >agreement they must adhere to which said books were not to be republished > >and were for research only or something similar. > > > > > > > > >What I attempted to say when I first started this thread, was that I did > >have access to the EEBO and downloaded quite a number of books that might be > >of interest to those on this list and while the licensing agreement > >prohibits me from republishing them, so they won't be appearing on my > >website, if any of you folks are researching something and are looking for a > >reference, please do contact me as I now have around 1400 books from the > >16th and 17th centuries and may be able to assist you. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Lisa Sinervo > >www.thrednedlestrete.com > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Wanda Pease" > >To: "Historical Costume" > >Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 9:54 AM > >Subject: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! > > > > > > > > > >>Lisa, I don't know how I managed to miss this message in the continuing > >> > >> > >saga > > > > > >>of Ms. Penelope Chalk, entrepreneur extraordinaire! I must admit that I > >>doubt that she would even make her investment back in CD's since there > >>aren't many of us out there willing to pay money for "dusty old history" > >> > >> > >but > > > > > >>it's a great thought. > >> > >>I just found out that one of my local University Libraries just got an > >> > >> > >EEBO > > > > > >>subscription. Can't access from home though. > >> > >>Were you asked to sign a copyright agreement? I wasn't. > >> > >>Regina/Wanda > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > -- > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 16:46:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1LkfOL016465 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 16:46:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1Lk3cC000128; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:46:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1Lk2gL021762; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1LjxgM021674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:46:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-186.sonic.net [209.148.112.186]) (authenticated bits=0)hA1Ljqtq001804 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:45:53 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA42A38.3050605@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:48:40 -0800 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! References: <001001c3a0a6$43dedc40$f239a5d1@pavilion> <3FA421BE.2010600@lavoltapress.com> <005101c3a0c0$81abf0c0$f239a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <005101c3a0c0$81abf0c0$f239a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am not sure what you are interested in doing. I was only noting that the agreement does bind individual users as well as authorized representatives of the library or other institution. (I can't imagine the lawyers writing this leaving a big loophole re individual users.) It also prohibits forming "collections" of EEBO materials and "distributing" their materials as well as "publishing" them. Anyway, I'm sure you're reading it all. You still might want to contact them to see what they regard as "fair use," among other things because this agreement seems to be at least partly according to British law and that differs from American law. Fran Lisa Sinervo wrote: >I am only interested in fair use for research sharing but thanks for your >suggestion. > >Lisa Sinervo >www.thrednedlestrete.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Fran Grimble" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:12 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! > > > > >>ProQuest's agreement is readily available on the home page of their >>website. Here is a link to it: >> >>http://wwwlib.umi.com/eebo/terms >> >>If you have any further questions, I'd suggest contacting ProQuest. I am >>sure they can explain how their agreement applies to you. And give you >>any permissionsthey wish to give that are legally necessary. There is >>no need to remain in the dark about what another party's rights are, or >>what they would give you permision to do, when you can easily ask them. >> >>Fran >> >>Lisa Sinervo wrote: >> >> >> >>>I had a proquest trial through a living history society I'm associated >>> >>> >with. > > >>>I suspect the first person who logs on to the proquest trial has an >>>agreement they must adhere to which said books were not to be republished >>>and were for research only or something similar. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>>What I attempted to say when I first started this thread, was that I did >>>have access to the EEBO and downloaded quite a number of books that might >>> >>> >be > > >>>of interest to those on this list and while the licensing agreement >>>prohibits me from republishing them, so they won't be appearing on my >>>website, if any of you folks are researching something and are looking >>> >>> >for a > > >>>reference, please do contact me as I now have around 1400 books from the >>>16th and 17th centuries and may be able to assist you. >>> >>>Cheers, >>> >>>Lisa Sinervo >>>www.thrednedlestrete.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Wanda Pease" >>>To: "Historical Costume" >>>Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 9:54 AM >>>Subject: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Lisa, I don't know how I managed to miss this message in the continuing >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>saga >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>of Ms. Penelope Chalk, entrepreneur extraordinaire! I must admit that I >>>>doubt that she would even make her investment back in CD's since there >>>>aren't many of us out there willing to pay money for "dusty old history" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>but >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>it's a great thought. >>>> >>>>I just found out that one of my local University Libraries just got an >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>EEBO >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>subscription. Can't access from home though. >>>> >>>>Were you asked to sign a copyright agreement? I wasn't. >>>> >>>>Regina/Wanda >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>h-costume mailing list >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming >>http://www.lavoltapress.com >>Historic and Vintage Dance >>http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > -- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 17:11:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1MBIOL016542 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 17:11:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1MAfcC001729; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:10:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1MAdko004018; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:10:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1MAZkp003952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:10:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-87.sonic.net [209.148.112.87]) (authenticated bits=0)hA1MASue030433 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:10:29 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA42FFC.4020709@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 14:13:16 -0800 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm sure, but are you really Penelope Chalk, Lisa Sinervo, or ?? I'm getting confused about who is who here. Fran Wanda Pease wrote: >Fran, > > I had no questions about the copyright agreement. I am fully aware of its >existence, and have no plans to violate it, even as Ms. Penelope Chalk. I >just didn't notice it as I signed in. > > ------------------------------------------ Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 17:24:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1MOHOL016651 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 17:24:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1MNdcC002460; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:23:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1MNcko010085; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:23:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1MNako010068 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:23:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-41-244.jps.net ([209.165.41.244] helo=pavilion) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AG49f-00036X-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 14:23:36 -0800 Message-ID: <001701c3a0c7$78d273a0$f429a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FA42FFC.4020709@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:28:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Miss Penelope Chalk is completely fictious - she arose out of concern for the hard working folks at the EEBO Lisa Sinervo - is doing massive reseach on the 16th century has collected quite a few EEBO books to cover the areas she is interested in and is willing to share info within the provisions of fair use for research only as she knows how frustrating finding period sources can be. Wanda Pease has also just discovered the riches of the EEBO. That's about it, and as far as I know the three entities above are quite happy with our level of knowledge about terms, conditions, and fair use and copyright, but thanks again for your concern. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fran Grimble" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! > I'm sure, but are you really Penelope Chalk, Lisa Sinervo, or ?? I'm > getting confused about who is who here. > > Fran > > Wanda Pease wrote: > > >Fran, > > > > I had no questions about the copyright agreement. I am fully aware of its > >existence, and have no plans to violate it, even as Ms. Penelope Chalk. I > >just didn't notice it as I signed in. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 18:09:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA1N9aOL016840 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:09:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1N8wcC005128; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 16:08:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1N8sct001018; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 16:08:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA1N8qct001002 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 16:08:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-52-049.jps.net ([209.165.52.49] helo=pavilion) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AG4rT-00036K-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 15:08:51 -0800 Message-ID: <005f01c3a0cd$ca7aef60$f429a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002601c3a09b$9cd9cb80$a63aa5d1@pavilion> <00cb01c3a0bf$26d07820$ecf74a43@4gxif> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century prayer books Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:13:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Helen and Betsy, yes those bejeweled and embroidered books, and book of hours are what I was referring to. I was wondering which books the ladies of the period might have "worn" if there was any research done into the popularity of various titles and which titles they might be. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century prayer books > Lisa wrote: > Have any of you out there researched the area of 16th century Englis prayer > books?..... The ones found almost as fashion accessories in portraits. I'd > like to obtain a few of the texts commonly used in these books from EEBO and > make a few prayer books up and I'm not sure which texts were commonly used. > Psalms I would image, anything else? Did the contents change after the > split with Rome? Any websites you can direct me to? > > > You mean those elaborately bejeweled and embroidered little books on chains > hanging from the waist on those Elizabethan ladies' portraits, right? > I can't get my hands on the book with the pictures right now, but I can get > my hands on Mirjam Foot's "Studies in the History of Bookbinding". A London > bookseller's pricelist gives the following titles for "bookes in hard > boards": Foxe's Book of Martyrs, The Psalms (probably the Coverdale > translation), the Book of Common Prayer, and the Bible. Other devotional > titles probably were available. "Bookes in hard boards" were laced in but > not fully bound; they were prepped and ready to be covered by an embroiderer > or other artist. > The biggest change in the contents was the switch from Latin to English and > the newly-written religious books and commentaries after the split from > Rome. In the sixteenth century, there was an explosion of printing fueled > by both the press and the Reformation. Also, the churches which were part > of the Reformation were much more encouraging of literacy and direct access > to religious texts. > Here's a link to Coverdale's Psalms: > http://www.bible-researcher.com/prayerbook1.html I'm pretty sure the > others should be on the web, too. > -Helen/Aidan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 20:10:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA21ApOL017045 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:10:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA21AEcC011651; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:10:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA21ABwx024609; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:10:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA21A7wx024573 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:10:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-44-145.jps.net ([209.165.44.145] helo=pavilion) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AG6kn-0003RU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:10:06 -0800 Message-ID: <001101c3a0de$b90b1140$772ea5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 17:14:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-ELNK-Originating-IP: 209.165.44.145 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] 17c eyebrow ointments and other beauty tips X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hA21ApOL017045 Status: RO One very interesting book I obtained was "Cosmeticks or The Beautifying Part of Physick by which all deformities of Nature in Men and Women are corrected, Age renewed, Youth prolonged, and the least impediment from a hair to a tooth, fairly amended. With the most absolute physical rarities for all ages, being familiar Remedies, for which every one may be his own apothecary." This book was printed in 1660 and does a fairly good job of living up to its title. Eyebrows have their own chapter: Of Ointments to take away the faults of the eye-brows For the falling of the hair off the eye-brows - Take of the filings of lead, of Drakes far, each sufficient quantity, mix them and make an unguent. Another - Take of filberds rosted and powder'd, the fat of a Goat or Bear, each a sufficient quantity, mix them to an ointment. An ointment to make the hair of the eye-brows grow again - Take of Henbane seed burnt, a sufficient quantity, with water make an ungent. Another - take of bees burnt and pouder'd, a sufficient quantity, and wich oyl make a liniment for the eye-brows. For the shedding of the eye-brows and beard - take of henbane two drams, mouserurd one dram, maidenhair tow drams, oly of flower-de-luce a sufficience quantity, pouder and mix them with theoyl, forment the pare and then anoint it. For lice in the eyebrows - Take the yelk of an Egg boyled hard, a little aloes, mix them and annoint ( there are a couple more under this heading) I wonder if the "falling of the hair" is to remove the hair, and "the shedding of eye-brows" might be to stop them from shedding. Seams lead would remove hair, but did they really want to keep beards from shedding? Other subjects include: Breasts - to make them small, to hinder their growth, to make them smoothe, for those that hang down - guess no one wanted implants in 1670! Baldness, diets, face whitening, teeth whitening, fair hands, fattening the body, removing body and facial hair, making hair thick, bleaching hair, dyeing hair, ointments for the hardness of the feet, curling the hair, pimples, and making perfume in the shape of little birds. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 20:55:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA21tEOL017131 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:55:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA21sZcC013450; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:54:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA21sXwx012776; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:54:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA21sVwx012763 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:54:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip23.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.23]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4BFF6DBC4 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 17:54:28 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:54:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the Subject of "Documentation" (long) Message-ID: <3FA3F350.5647.155D9F15@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <18a.21606af9.2cd45474@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm hoping this is considered "On topic", as it relates to documenting > a historical costume. I'm creating an Elizabethan gown, and I've > never really done documentation before. This is for a competition > where documentation matters, and I have a limited amount of time (the > competition is CC22 in April, but I'm a college student. Studies come > first, must be able to feed my addiction later!). I suppose what I'm > really looking for are tips on documentation- while I was at CC21 I > went to a lecture, but the notes I took are 400 miles away. The limit > is 4 typed pages, but I remember the lecturer (whom, I believe, was > with AlterYears) spoke of appendices- and that we could have as many > of those as we wanted. So...is anyone willing to share a few tips on > "good" documentation techniques, in terms of presentation and whatnot? First off, do your research first, write up your documentation (which is the synthesis of your research) and *then* make your dress. Doing it the other way around always shows. Documentation depends on the venue. In some competitions, they want the historical basis for each and every aspect of the costume. In some they more want a list of how you did what you did and where you got the fabrics you used (and I don't mean where you got the ideas for using a specific fabrics.) I'm going to assume that you are entering a historical costume contest as opposed to one which is more theatrically based (such as the historically influenced fantasy costumes. Whole different kettle of fish!) Document is what sources you derived your ideas from. Those ideas should match as closely as possible what you have done. It is *what* you have done. Make it short and sweet, but with all the appropriate details. Use the appendix for your discussions about rationale (why you have done something), supporting evidence and the like. Basically "In this period the sleeve could be done as X, which I have done (Footnote 1 of pictures in appendix)" or "In this period this sleeve would have been done (footnote 1 of pictures in appendix) but I chose to make mine this way (footnote 2 of discussion of rationale for departure from period design for sleeve in appendix.) Keep in mind that when done well, this still leaves a lot of room for "creative" decisions as opposed to doing exact replicas. In your chosen time period, there are basic silouettes and cutting methods, but there are also plenty of variations. If you are "interpolating" styles, make sure that all the information you used to make a reasonable interpolation are in the appendix. Be specific when appropriate. If you are doing a dress from 1580-85 France, say that rather than the more ambiguous "Late 16th Century European". If your work cannot specifically pinpoint a date, then you may not have the appropriate information or you may be trying to combine style variations from too many time periods. If you use as a model 3 examples from 1580-85 English as your model, but you can't get information on the cut except from Alcega (1589 in Spain), that's fine (since we don't have many sources with such specific information) explain that in the appendix. (Ie. "My pictoral sources for this dress are 1585 English [Show the 3 dresses or footnote pointing to them in the appendix]. The cut is 1589 [footnote pointing to discussion and picture of cutting diagram in appendix].") Make sure that the documentation is *readable*. Don't use fancy scripts that may be appropriate for the time period but are difficult to read. This is the "nonperiod" part of your outfit. (If you have to do the whole thing in a "period appropriate manner", that's a different type of competition.) Do it so that a judge with limited amount of time can read it. I recommend using something like a 14 point Arial (or, for those with nonMicrosoft word, Helvetica). And make your points almost bullet style when possible so that the judges can easily *find* the information by glancing quickly. If it's embedded in a paragraph, they'll never find it. But use footnotes for more information. You might also want to have quick flip tabs to help them find specific details in the appendix. Most of all, you want it to be readable and if they need to have more information, that needs to be findable. When you use sources, you don't need to list every book you've ever read on the subject. Use the ones which gave you good information and which are considered to be good sources. A book can have lots of "information" in it, but if it's full of conjecture or redrawings, then you may just look like you can't figure out what a good source is. Quoting a tertiary source, no matter how well thought of they are, is not documentation. It is rehashing. Your work should be supported by good sources as close to primary as is possible for that aspect. (It isn't always possible to have "ideal" sources. For example, you'll have a hard time bringing in any sort of Elizabethan gown which is primary. You'd have problems bringing in a photograph of an Elizabethan period English gown. You'll need to depend on photographs of Elizabethan period English portraits of gowns, with supporting evidence, for example, from a Spanish/German extant gown from the same period.) If you are using a pictoral source, don't depend on just one picture to tell the whole story. This is especially true if you are using a picture which might at least in part be iconographical. Find other pictoral sources as well as quotes from the time period to support your ideas about that outfit. They can all go in the appendix. So, with all this stuff going into the appendix, what's left? Plenty. Discuss every aspect of your costume: sleeve type, bodice shape, skirt shape, etc (things about the silouette such as fullness, neckline cut, and the like) . Talk about the cut (lines of seams and shape of pattern pieces). Point out trim placement (which may be part of the cut or under embellishment/decoration depending on why it is where it is). Mention the techniques used (but make sure to put any diagrams or discussion about it in the appendix. This would be such things as "completely hand sewn using running stitch with a catch stitch for part X, herringbone stitch for part Y, overcast stich for part Z, cartridge pleating for part A of the sleeve and for part B, etc." vs "machine sewn seams but cartridge pleating on the skirt and handsewn hem ). Don't forget about fastening methods. Make sure to state what you yourself did (such as pattern drafting vs having a friend do it vs using a Simplicity pattern.) Discuss the fabrics you used in terms of content and weave and surface design ("In the sixteen century this would have been made of a brocade of silk in a design of X, footnote 2 in appendix, so I chose this fabric with this design"). Colors should also be discussed. It's good to show which dyes would have been making the color which you are wearing, where you found mention of it in an inventory and show a pictoral source of someone wearing that color. So should any ornamentation/decoration/embellishment. Document the layers as well. If you have corset, petticoat, farthingale, chemise, etc. they are all part of the garment and need to have their own discussions and appendix directed footnotes. (If the competition doesn't require you to strip, you might want to have photographs of you getting into each layer of the garment in your appendix.) Same thing with accessories. And that will probably take you all 4 pages to do it in a readable, scan-able way. Never assume that the judges know anything. Even if you think "but everyone knows that", it still should be documented. Think of it as something that is an educating too. (This also makes it more fun for the judges.) Never assume that the judges know nothing. Don't even bother to bullshit or use scurulous sources. Use humor when appropriate. Judging a contest is not easy. It is tiring in a physical and emotional sense. Appropriately place levity can help the judges get through it more easily. (Avoid "groaners" as these can make the judges less happy with reading your stuff. There's a fine line between appropriate and annoying.) Whatever you do, don't use a persona story as any part of your documentation. It doesn't matter if the person wearing it had a father/lover/husband/favorite uncle/whatever who was a merchant and could get things from anywhere in the world. They still probably wouldn't have used it in public unless you can document that someone from that time/place did use it. I've probably forgotten some detail, as I'm doing this off the top of my head. If so, hopefully some kind person will add in what I may have left out. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 20:58:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA21wnOL017138 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:58:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA21wEcC013606; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:58:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA21wEUL014174; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:58:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA21wCUL014158 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:58:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip23.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.23]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC156A6B4 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 17:52:36 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:58:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Message-ID: <3FA3F42F.19815.156107F2@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FA309CC.1050300@thibault.org> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Marc Carlson wrote: > > clothing looking right - however trying to find a non-jarring > > background is driving me nuts. > > Stone walls? Gothic panels inside a nearby church? Or some sort of draped fabric. You might want to look at portraits of the time to see what would have been seen around the shoes. Sometimes it might be a plain wooden plank floor which you can find at a local Boy Scout camp. > As far as the clothes, why not simplify your problem: show the shoes > from the knees down? Your model can wear the proper hosen, garters, > etc, and not worry about the rest, plus you'd get a larger picture of > the shoes if you're not showing the whole person. This is a *very* good point. Make the shoes the focus and you don't have to worry nearly as much about what they are wearing on their bodies and heads. (That way the modern haircuts and glasses definitely won't be a problem.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 21:18:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA22I1OL017166 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:18:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA22GkcC014774; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:16:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA22GiUL022955; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:16:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA22GKUL022723 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:16:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip23.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.23]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD186A97D for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:15:53 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 18:15:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Message-ID: <3FA3F855.8198.15713A4F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FA2F85F.1000801@lavoltapress.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Who is the Chivalry Bookshelf? Are they a division of the Chivalry > Sports catalog? Emphatically NO! Most of Chivalry Bookshelf's books are archeology based books (generally on martial arts topics such as the finds from the battle of Wisby or techniques of medieval armor production.) Definitely not related to Chivalry Sports catalog. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 21:18:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA22I1OL017167 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:18:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA22G2cC014696; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA22G0UL022513; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA22FtUL022459 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:15:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip23.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.23]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A6A6A978 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:15:52 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 18:15:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sew on Tudor Jewels-painted black diamnonds Message-ID: <3FA3F854.17010.15713955@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031031.225404.-165279251.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm certainly no expert on diamond cutting, but from the period > examples I've seen at the V&A, the cutting technique seems to be > fairly simple and much closer to what we think of as an 'emerald cut'. That's one cut, but they also used a pyramidal shape for the cut. These were part of the novelty you mentioned since they could also be used to cut glass or draw on glass. > It has far fewer facets so the light isn't reflected into the interior > as well. They don't actually look solid black, they look a bit > 'smokey'. The overall look is a crystal sort of black (is this making > any sense?) and would most effectively be rendered in paint as a > greyish black. Actually, diamonds weren't that popular in jewelry > during the Elizabethan period, they were considered a bit of a > novelty. The colored stones were much more popular, as they showed to > advantage even with simpler cutting techniques, as well as pearls and > enameling. The era of the diamond didn't really begin until the late > 18th-19th century when cutting techniques advanced to the stage where > a great deal of light could be reflected within the stone and produce > the sparkle we associate with diamonds today. Exactly. When you think of it, diamond are rather bland except for the sparkle. The colored stones are much prettier. ;) For more information you might want to look at Ronald Lightbown's _Mediaeval European Jewellery_ which has nice discussions of stones in the middle ages (and renaissance up to a point.) Diana Scarisbrick's book on the history of British jewelry I believe also has information on that and her book goes much later than Lightbown's book. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 21:28:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA22S1OL017194 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:28:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA22RRcC015302; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:27:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA22RPUL028398; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:27:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA22RNUM028383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:27:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (acty5238.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.250.238]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hA22SAV2026417 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:28:10 -0500 Message-ID: <3FA46B85.3090304@dandy.net> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 21:27:17 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: hose gusset (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings References: <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031028225329.05ad0ec0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031028225329.05ad0ec0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. I got that part. See below where I mention that my wife states the very same thing. I am wondering, however, as I stated (the egg and chicken idea), which one influenced the other first. This would require a study of knitted hose before the introduction of clocking, to see how those pre-clocked knitted ones were constructed. This would provide the conjecture with some needed docs, although it wouldn't necessarily mean anything, as pre late 16th Cent. cut hose still used the ankle gusset method of construction. I have two pair of cuthose in linen, and I can't really see the difference in the feel of the wear. Frankly, the ankle gusset ones were harder to construct, and have more stress points on them than the others, and use up greater portions of non-symmetrical fabric bits. Mike T. > Immitation is not why knit hose have that gusset, even tho the first > knitted stockings were probably made by someone looking at how > cut-and-sewn hose were made. You knit that gusset in there so the top > of the foot sticks out at an angle from the leg (and it is about the > simplest way to accomplish this). Then you knit the heel, then you > knit the rest of the foot. While you're still knitting the leg, you > can decorate above where the gusset will be. > > There are several ways to make the heel, foot, and toe of a stocking. > The book Folk Socks shows several, along with the working directions > for each. > >> My wife, the knitter in the family, tells me that the "imitation >> gusset" is actually a useful part of the construction of the >> stocking, easing the transition between the heel and the foot as they >> are made from the leg of the stocking. Like the chicken and the egg, >> I don't know which came first, or for what purpose. Later knit >> stockings, also in Davenport, also show decoration on the backseams. >> Cheers, Mike T. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 21:34:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA22YPOL017216 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:34:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA22XZcC015664; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:33:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA22XVUL001065; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:33:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA22WvUM000776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (acty5238.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.250.238]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hA22XhV2031523 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:33:44 -0500 Message-ID: <3FA46CD3.9000701@dandy.net> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 21:32:51 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: stretchy (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings References: <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Carol. I'm guessing that the material is dense and tight because of heavy fulling/felting of the wool. Have you been able to actually handle/stretch these examples? They might also be somewhat stiff from age. I have a pair knitted by my wife in Border/Leicester wool, pattered from the Gunnister find. They appear dense and have been fulled/felted, but they still have quite a bit of stretch, even after being laundered. Cheers, Mike T. > > > I got that info by looking at lots and lots and lots of 18thC > extant stockings. The knit is dense and tight. I haven't compared it > directly to the stretch in bias cut fabric - I should do that. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 22:40:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA23eFOL017424 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 22:40:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA23dbcC018892; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:39:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA23dXCw028582; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:39:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA23dWCw028567 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:39:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 64353 invoked by uid 1005); 2 Nov 2003 03:39:24 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.073041 secs); 02 Nov 2003 03:39:24 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.073041 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2003 03:39:24 -0000 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 22:39:23 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century prayer books In-Reply-To: <002601c3a09b$9cd9cb80$a63aa5d1@pavilion> Message-ID: <20031101223557.K19931-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa, There's a Compleat Anachronist that came out recently on the topic of books of hours, written from the perspective of someone interested in creating one of their own. It also has a great bibliography with pointers for people wanting to learn more. It was written in 9/99. If you don't know someone that has it, it can be ordered online for $4.50 at https://secure.sca.org/cgi-bin/stockclerk/ca.html . Drea On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Have any of you out there researched the area of 16th century Englis prayer books?..... The ones found almost as fashion accessories in portraits. I'd like to obtain a few of the texts commonly used in these books from EEBO and make a few prayer books up and I'm not sure which texts were commonly used. Psalms I would image, anything else? Did the contents change after the split with Rome? Any websites you can direct me to? > > Thanks, > > Lisa Sinervo > www.thrednedlestrete.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 23:04:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA244eOL017509 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 23:04:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2447cC020108; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:04:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2446k7007998; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:04:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f4.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2442k7007957 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:03:57 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.94 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 04:03:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.94] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 22:03:57 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Nov 2003 04:03:57.0445 (UTC) FILETIME=[56C1DB50:01C3A0F6] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm, apparently I’m being less than clear somewhere. I’m not really all that concerned with the people I –know- who are going to be overly critical – I know who they are and where they are like to go with whatever I do. I also am aware that there are just going to be those who will pick apart whatever. Really, what I am trying to do here is see what’s likely to be most effective for the majority of readers who might want to pick it up. So I’m not sure there’s that much “getting past” the critics that should to be done. I don't want to sound hard with that, and I appreciate the comments, Fran. I'm just not sure that I've been clear on that. And yes, Robin, shoemaking techniques. Ideally the shoemakers in the picture shouldn’t actually be pulling the attention away from whatever detail the picture’s of. Of course, since the basic working class outfit doesn’t change much for the 5 centuries I’m looking at… :) My editor and I are in communication, but at this point I’m planning, organizing information and writing. My deadline isn’t until next September, so I’m not looking to need much external validation before that :) People who are in a hurry can always try my webpage “Footwear of the Middle Ages”. The major difficulty with photography on this project is that it’s going to take a major amount of time for each individual pair of shoes (making a pair of shoes, if everything goes right, takes me about 16-24 hours) which will require a photographer (and model if I use other people as models) be there for the entire procedure – each time. Clear storyboarding will help organizing what pictures should be taken when but no matter how I do it, it’s going to be time consuming. I don’t have sufficient materials to break it down TOO much (with multiple stages already done out). As for that background, what I really need is a plaster and woodframe wall inside with a tile floor – but my wife won’t let me redo the apartment :) Hmm, Eyebrows? Definitely not something that I would have considered… I know what you mean though – I’m frequently put off by posture (For instance, “Down with Love” was the first movie that incorrect posture blew the film for me). Marc _________________________________________________________________ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 1 23:55:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA24tROL017855 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 23:55:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA24smcC022291; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:54:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA24sgk7026316; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:54:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA24sdk8026257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:54:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-115-31.sonic.net [209.148.115.31]) (authenticated bits=0)hA24sSue027565 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:54:33 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA48EAC.1090002@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 20:57:16 -0800 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > So I’m not sure there’s that much “getting past” the critics that > should to be done. I don't want to sound hard with that, and I > appreciate the comments, Fran. No offense taken. > > My editor and I are in communication, but at this point I’m planning, > organizing information and writing. Every book-publishing house has a different system. I've worked for some where they paid no attention to the MS till it came in. Then there's the last one I worked for, where the editors were involved from the very beginning, from working on the outline till the end. In daily phone communication for months. On the one hand it was fun. And I was good at it. An author could count on my being totally devoted to their project; well, to theirs and the other three to five projects I was working on at the same time. On the other hand it got draining. Authors vary a lot in how much emotional support they need. Most were businesslike and efficient. But some I had to constantly counsel, in essence, to keep them writing. Every time they had a crisis they'd call me up at home at 6 AM on a Sunday. Then there were the ones (usually the same ones) where I was essentially a coauthor for their books without credit. When I started to resent it I got out of that part of the business. Fran ------------------------------------------ Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 01:38:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA26cjOL018303 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 01:38:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA26c2cC026105; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 23:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA26c0t0003555; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 23:38:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA26bwt0003541 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 23:37:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.249.181.87] (pool181-7.patriot.net [209.249.181.7]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hA26btQD015788 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 01:37:56 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FA46CD3.9000701@dandy.net> References: <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> <3FA46CD3.9000701@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 01:37:36 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: stretchy (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Mike, Most of the extant stockings I've seen are silk, followed by linen. Neither of those fabrics fulls the way wool does, and in both cases the knit is dense & not stretchy. There are not as many extant wool stockings out there. I own a few extant silk & linen stockings, so I have opportunity to check the stretch whereas I would not tug on a pair belonging to a museum. But I don't have to try to stretch the knit in order to tell that it's dense and not very flexible. We could get together and I could show you my extant stockings & look at your repros if you like. "Quite a bit of stretch" sounds like more than what I've seen in the originals. >Hi, Carol. I'm guessing that the material is dense and tight because >of heavy fulling/felting of the wool. Have you been able to actually >handle/stretch these examples? They might also be somewhat stiff >from age. I have a pair knitted by my wife in Border/Leicester wool, >pattered from the Gunnister find. They appear dense and have been >fulled/felted, but they still have quite a bit of stretch, even >after being laundered. Cheers, Mike T. I just looked at my slides of the stockings from the Museum of London. One is a fragment (foot) with the blocky-shaped gusset construction that I see in some 17th and very early 18thC stockings. The other is the early sock, I think 16th century. There are holes in crucial areas so it's hard to see exactly what's happening, but it appears to have some increase in width around the ankle. It is not a gusset. The heels are purl stitches, but not much in the way of heel shaping. It almost looks like a tube sock! -Carol At 9:27 PM -0500 11/1/03, michael tartaglio wrote: >Hi. I got that part. See below where I mention that my wife states >the very same thing. I am wondering, however, as I stated (the egg >and chicken idea), which one influenced the other first. This would >require a study of knitted hose before the introduction of clocking, >to see how those pre-clocked knitted ones were constructed. This >would provide the conjecture with some needed docs, although it >wouldn't necessarily mean anything, as pre late 16th Cent. cut hose >still used the ankle gusset method of construction. I have two pair >of cuthose in linen, and I can't really see the difference in the >feel of the wear. Frankly, the ankle gusset ones were harder to >construct, and have more stress points on them than the others, and >use up greater portions of non-symmetrical fabric bits. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 02:29:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA27TOOL018408 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 02:29:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA27SkcC028149; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:28:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA27SjU9020283; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:28:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA27SfUB020246 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:28:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNP00HIGRFQVG@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 23:28:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 23:20:08 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the Subject of "Documentation" (long) In-reply-to: <3FA3F350.5647.155D9F15@localhost> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031101231833.02fcacd8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <18a.21606af9.2cd45474@aol.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:54 PM 11/1/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I've probably forgotten some detail, as I'm doing this off the top of >my head. That was from the top of your head? Wow. That was a lot of info. Thanks for sharing that Kat. While I may never go into competition myself, at least now I know what all you look for in that kind of venture. In a way, I may just do that with this next dress I am working on, to document to myself how historical it really is, or not. Wow. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 02:29:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA27TVOL018411 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 02:29:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA27SwcC028170; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:28:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA27SwU9020340; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:28:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA27SfU9020246 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:28:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNP00HIGRFQVG@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 23:28:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 23:17:44 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031101231357.02f9b8d0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hA27SfU9020246 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:03 PM 11/1/2003 -0600, you wrote: >As for that background, what I really need is a plaster and woodframe wall >inside with a tile floor ­ but my wife won’t let me redo the apartment :) Hi Marc Can you make a set in a spare room somewhere, even at a friend's? Make a backdrop that looks like plaster and woodframe, with a small stage of the tile floor, and then set the lights and whatever offstage? Sort of a mini-theatre? You can even make it in parts, so you could store it someplace until needed? And have you thought of making several shoes in different stages of completion, so that photo shoots can go from one stage to another without so much time with actual construction? You may be able to sell the different shoes after you are done, especially if you make them in a close range of sizes? Just a few ideas. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 02:29:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA27TcOL018414 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 02:29:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA27T3cC028184; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:29:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA27T3U9020376; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA27SfUD020246 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:28:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNP00HIGRFQVG@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 23:28:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 23:23:44 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sew on Tudor Jewels-painted black diamnonds In-reply-to: <3FA3F854.17010.15713955@localhost> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031101232310.02fc9940@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20031031.225404.-165279251.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:15 PM 11/1/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Diana >Scarisbrick's book on the history of British jewelry I believe also >has information on that and her book goes much later than Lightbown's >book. Kat, would that be _Ancestral Jewels_ , by Diana Scarisbrick ? Or is it a different book? Thanks Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 06:10:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2BATOL030918 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 06:10:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2B9mcC006242; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 04:09:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2B9ibf000954; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 04:09:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta08bw.bigpond.com (mta08bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2B9gbf000920 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 04:09:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from clarke ([144.135.24.94]) by mta08bw.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HNQ00D3S1J95A@mta08bw.email.bigpond.com> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:06:45 +1000 (EST) Received: from 144.139.224.57 ([144.139.224.57]) by bwmam09.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2c 138/17892160); Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:06:36 +0000 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:06:31 +1100 From: Purple Elephant Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair To: Historical Costume Message-id: <005b01c3a131$65466ed0$39e08b90@clarke> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <003401c3a0ac$fa428b70$0200a8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sablerose" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 6:18 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] hair > > I have it on good authority from someone who has worn a properly > constructed 15th century hennin that plucking wasn't necessary. The > hennin takes care of removing hair from that area for you! She's still > growing her bangs back.... > > Tayla Still not particularly useful for someone who has to go back to a 21st century office the day after the event *grin* Plus, as I said, I have a really low forehead (and a widow's peak to boot). I'd have about 2 inches of hair showing if I wore a hennin on the line they're most often depicted. That's a lot to lose. Especially since I don't really have bangs. I have hippy hair - even fairly close to my hairline it's at least waist length. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 09:37:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2EbvOL031931 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:37:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2EbCcC016407; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 07:37:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2Eb8dD014223; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 07:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2Eb5dD014202 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 07:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.49]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:36:18 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: hose gusset (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:37:19 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c3a14e$d2a67070$316453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <3FA46B85.3090304@dandy.net> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mike wrote: <> Hi Mike! As someone who has constructed both bias-cut hose and knit stockings in wool, I have a theory to put forth on the matter. When I make bias-cut hose in the 16th century manner (gusset at the ankle), I put the hose on the person and slit the sides until the vamp falls smoothly over the ankle. The gusset goes where it needs to be to make the hose fit. It's a slightly different place for every person, and the size of the gusset also differs wildly. But its purpose is clear -- to facilitate the turn in the fabric that accommodates the foot. When I knit my first pair of wool stockings, I was trying to replicate an extant pair that ended above the ankles, so I didn't know quite what to do with the foot. Since I had no experience knitting socks, I didn't know how to turn a heel. But someone I muddled through it, only to find out later that my attempts greatly resembled the Gunnister stockings. The purpose again is to make the turn to accommodate the foot. I have long held this belief (that I call "The Barbie Theory of Textile Development) that an absolute beginner is more likely to stubble upon an ancient technique by accident simply because she has nothing to cloud her judgment. She just makes it work and it works. And sometimes it's shockingly similar to what was done in the period under study, assuming the period is sufficiently primitive as the earliest knit wool stockings would have been. It's not good scholarship, but it's surprising how many times it works in practice. So my theory is that "the chicken and the egg", as you call them, didn't come one from the other, but rather developed separately to solve the same problem. I don't believe that the first stocking knitters said, "We have to make a triangular gusset in the ankle so it looks like cut hose." They had to make a turn there to make the stockings fit. The result simply looks like a gusset, but it's only because the purpose is the same, not that one was trying to look like the other. Convergent evolution may not exist in biological circles, but maybe it does in textile ones. =) Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 10:53:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2Fr1OL032133 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:53:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FqLcC019844; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:52:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FqJUH012664; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:52:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FqHUH012646 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:52:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip125.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.125]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0646D6A96A for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 07:46:40 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 07:52:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sew on Tudor Jewels-painted black diamnonds Message-ID: <3FA4B7A6.27341.185C8E2A@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3FA3F854.17010.15713955@localhost> In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20031101232310.02fc9940@64.87.54.245> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Kat, would that be _Ancestral Jewels_ , by Diana Scarisbrick ? Or is > it a different book? Different book. I went and found the book: _Jewellery in Britain 1066-1837_ However, she doesn't talk about diamond cutting. She more discusses where they would have mined them and what the trade was like (and in terms of diamonds she doesn't have much information until the 18th C.) Ms. Scarisbrick has actually written quite a few books on jewelry. In addition to the two mentioned above already she also has one strictly on necklaces and another on rings. She may have even more, but they are not (yet) on my shelves (or, like Ancestral Jewels, shelved in a different spot than the rest of her books.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 11:00:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2G0OOL032166 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:00:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FxocC020156; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:59:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FxnVw015580; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:59:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA2FxkVw015542 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:59:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OuadlB50UEGUUEh7sdBWiR0=">; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 07:58:57 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JDY9RKXR; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 07:58:57 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 07:58:05 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the Subject of "Documentation" (long) Message-ID: <20031102.075806.1832.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-30,32-36,43-46,48-51,55-60,64-86,89-90,96-104 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat writes: > First off, do your research first, write up your documentation > (which is the synthesis of your research) and *then* make your dress. Doing > it the other way around always shows. My mmemonic for this is DAP: 1) DO the research 2) APPLY the research 3) PRESENT the whole package > Documentation depends on the venue. In some competitions, they want > the historical basis for each and every aspect of the costume. In > some they more want a list of how you did what you did and where you > got the fabrics you used (and I don't mean where you got the ideas > for using a specific fabrics.) > > I'm going to assume that you are entering a historical costume > contest as opposed to one which is more theatrically based (such as > the historically influenced fantasy costumes. Whole different kettle > of fish!) > > Document is what sources you derived your ideas from. Those ideas > should match as closely as possible what you have done. It is *what* > you have done. Make it short and sweet, but with all the appropriate > details. Use the appendix for your discussions about rationale (why > you have done something), supporting evidence and the like. > > Basically "In this period the sleeve could be done as X, which I > have done (Footnote 1 of pictures in appendix)" or "In this period this > sleeve would have been done (footnote 1 of pictures in appendix) but > I chose to make mine this way (footnote 2 of discussion of rationale > for departure from period design for sleeve in appendix.) Sometimes you will run into conflicting opinions in your research. Sometimes you will run into outdated viewpoints in your research. How many people used Norris until they found Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked? It's ok to amend your research. If this involves having to remake something and having the time to do so, go for it. If you don't, let the mistake stand but present your improved research as well as the mistake. Judges understand and respect this. Give the rationale for it. > Make sure that the documentation is *readable*. Don't use fancy > scripts that may be appropriate for the time period but are > difficult to read. This is the "nonperiod" part of your outfit. (If you have > to do the whole thing in a "period appropriate manner", that's a > different type of competition.) Another way of doing it is to use fancy fonts in titles and headers, but always present your text body in a clean, easy to read font. Unlike Kat, I prefer nothing larger than a 12 point, as I find larger fonts hard to read. Times New Roman is a nice font too. > Do it so that a judge with limited amount of time can read it. I > recommend using something like a 14 point Arial (or, for those with > nonMicrosoft word, Helvetica). I ran into a wierd one recently--an entrant presented their work with no introduction whatsoever. Use an intro--tell your judges what they are looking at. (The other judges on this particular entry found it as baffling as I did.) Don't make your judges guess. > When you use sources, you don't need to list every book you've ever > read on the subject. Use the ones which gave you good information > and which are considered to be good sources. But if you used the source, do include it in your reference list. > Never assume that the judges know anything. Even if you think "but > everyone knows that", it still should be documented. Think of it as > something that is an educating too. (This also makes it more fun for > the judges.) > > Never assume that the judges know nothing. Don't even bother to > bullshit or use scurulous sources. > > Use humor when appropriate. Judging a contest is not easy. It is > tiring in a physical and emotional sense. Appropriately place levity can help the judges get through it more easily. (Avoid "groaners" as these can make the judges less happy with reading your stuff. > There's > a fine line between appropriate and annoying.) Be engaging. Think of yourself as teaching the judges. You will all have a lot of fun. One of my past professors told his class of researchers, "You are the expert. Your job is to teach me." In all this, don't be concerned too much about the judges and whatever biases they may bring into the competition (the good judges are aware of theirs, and the bad ones don't care). Your job is to present your item and your research to the best of your ability. Anything else is a random factor. But it can help you in terms of your presentation to think of things that the judges might ask about. > I've probably forgotten some detail, as I'm doing this off the top > of my head. If so, hopefully some kind person will add in what I may > have left out. Darned fine post, Kat! thanks! :D Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 11:20:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2GKoOL032271 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:20:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2GKEcC021063; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:20:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2GKDVw023940; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:20:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (smtp2.surewest.net [208.45.228.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA2GKAVw023892 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:20:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11932 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2003 16:20:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.11) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2003 16:20:04 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031102081118.00bd1120@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:20:04 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sew on Tudor Jewels-painted black diamnonds In-Reply-To: <3FA4B7A6.27341.185C8E2A@localhost> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031101232310.02fc9940@64.87.54.245> <3FA3F854.17010.15713955@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2 SNWK2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:52 AM 11/2/2003 -0800, you wrote: > > Kat, would that be _Ancestral Jewels_ , by Diana Scarisbrick ? Or is > > it a different book? > >Different book. I went and found the book: >_Jewellery in Britain 1066-1837_ > > >Ms. Scarisbrick has actually written quite a few books on jewelry. In >addition to the two mentioned above already she also has one strictly >on necklaces and another on rings. She may have even more, but they >are not (yet) on my shelves (or, like Ancestral Jewels, shelved in a >different spot than the rest of her books.) > >Kat > Ms. Scarisbrick also wrote a small book titled "Tudor and Jacobean Jewellery" [yes, that *is* the spelling in the title], copyright date 1995, Tate Publications (ISBN 1-85437-158-4). It's a nice compilation of jewelry in my particular area of prime interest. It's a small book, only 104 pages, but has 81 colour illustrations (lots of portraits). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 11:23:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2GNNOL032285 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:23:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FqncC019869; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:52:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FqnUH012924; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:52:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FqKUH012676 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:52:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip125.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.125]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03B5C6A616 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 07:46:44 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 07:52:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the Subject of "Documentation" (long) Message-ID: <3FA4B7A4.16797.185C8987@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3FA3F350.5647.155D9F15@localhost> In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20031101231833.02fcacd8@64.87.54.245> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Thanks for sharing that Kat. While I may never go into competition > myself, at least now I know what all you look for in that kind of > venture. In a way, I may just do that with this next dress I am > working on, to document to myself how historical it really is, or not. You're welcome. I have done a lot of costume competition judging over the years. However, I usually try to do this when I'm making an outfit for myself even though I haven't entered any competitions for about 17 years. It helps me think through what I'm making. I also help people do historical clothing and help them think through what they are making. And as the years have gone by, I've been more particular about the sources I use for doing the stuff I make. I used to be satisfied with, for instance, using Hunnisett's pattern ideas without trying to try different construction ideas to see if they work better or fit more with what I've learned from extant clothing and the few existing tailor's manuals that we do have. (That isn't to say I come up with a better idea necessarily, but I at least have a better idea of *why* that works than I would have if I had just taken Hunnisett at face value.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 11:24:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2GOKOL032292 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:24:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FqicC019865; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:52:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FqiUH012882; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:52:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FqJUH012663 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:52:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip125.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.125]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284736A616 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 07:46:42 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 07:52:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair Message-ID: <3FA4B7A5.304.185C8A90@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005b01c3a131$65466ed0$39e08b90@clarke> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Plus, as I said, I have a really low forehead (and a > widow's peak to boot). I'd have about 2 inches of > hair showing if I wore a hennin on the line they're > most often depicted. That's a lot to lose. Especially > since I don't really have bangs. I have hippy hair - even > fairly close to my hairline it's at least waist length. As Robin pointed out (probably in a conversation rather than on here), not everyone was cut out to have that sort of "fashionable" hairline. If your genetics is for low foreheads, then chances are you wouldn't have been in the position of wearing one. Someone with a "white bread" European ancestry (English or French especially) would have a much better chance, for instance, than someone with Eastern European or mediterranean ancestry. Also, it depends on how you wear your hair. There is a phenomenon called "traction alopecia" where hair that has been kept tightly pulled (from pony tails or tight cornrowing) tends to thin out at the edges. If someone constantly wears their hair *tightly* pulled back from the forehead (especially if they have heavy hair) they will usually end up losing hair along the forehead line, so that it can end up looking like it's been plucked. I've always thought that the ladies with the hennins look more like they had been having traction alopecia (with perhaps plucking just the few stray hairs that occur with that) than plucking a low forehead until it was the fashionable height (which usually doesn't give quite the same look.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 11:25:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2GPaOL032296 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:25:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FqrcC019881; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:52:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FqrUH012960; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:52:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2FqMUH012698 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:52:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip125.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.125]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4D256A616 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 07:46:45 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 07:52:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3FA4B7A5.13533.185C8B9A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000901c3a14e$d2a67070$316453d8@Kass> References: <3FA46B85.3090304@dandy.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [h-cost] RE: hose gusset (was Re: Hose/stockings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have long held this belief (that I call "The Barbie Theory of > Textile Development) that an absolute beginner is more likely to > stubble upon an ancient technique by accident simply because she has > nothing to cloud her judgment. She just makes it work and it works. > And sometimes it's shockingly similar to what was done in the period > under study, assuming the period is sufficiently primitive as the > earliest knit wool stockings would have been. > > It's not good scholarship, but it's surprising how many times it works > in practice. I have to laugh because an anthropologist I took classes from years ago had been trying to replicate a type of flint arrowhead, but no matter how hard he tried he just couldn't do it. That is he couldn't do it until one time when he was a bit drunk with some of his anthro buddies and they were doing some flint napping they ended up with *exactly* the right shape/pattern on the arrowhead. Sometimes "accidents" of this sort let us know some things that study and intellect can't tell us. It's the reason why living history is not as ill thought of as it has been in the past and is becoming more and more accepted. Sometimes people do learn and understand better from *doing* an activity than merely studying about it. That isn't to say that you totally depend on that. You still would want to do the research and back up your theories as to why you think that this may be the way they did something. (That's where the scholarship comes in.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 11:46:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2GkiOL032357 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:46:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2Gk9cC022427; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:46:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2Gk8Vw004763; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:46:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2Gk5Vw004727 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:46:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip250.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.250]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B0866D7F6 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:46:03 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:45:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the Subject of "Documentation" (long) Message-ID: <3FA4C442.6535.188DD2A7@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031102.075806.1832.2.Cley@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Another way of doing it is to use fancy fonts in titles and headers, > but always present your text body in a clean, easy to read font. > Unlike Kat, I prefer nothing larger than a 12 point, as I find larger > fonts hard to read. Times New Roman is a nice font too. Unfortunately, many people can't really read Times New Roman well. It is a serifed script. Studies on readability done for things like presentations and reading by people who have any eyesight problems have shown that a san-serif font/script (such as Helvetica and Arial) is demonstratably easier to read than a serifed font/script (such as Times New Roman). (Just because it's done in a newspaper doesn't mean that it doesn't impair reading ability/speed. And that is the last thing you want to have "impaired" when the judges are looking at your stuff.) I guess the font size thing is the difference in eyesight problem. I wouldn't go smaller than 12point, however. Most people can adjust to reading larger easier than they can smaller. > I ran into a wierd one recently--an entrant presented their work with > no introduction whatsoever. Use an intro--tell your judges what they > are looking at. (The other judges on this particular entry found it as > baffling as I did.) Don't make your judges guess. Excellent point. Things like your time period and place, as well as a summary of what garments make up your presentation would go here well. > > When you use sources, you don't need to list every book you've ever > > read on the subject. Use the ones which gave you good information > > and which are considered to be good sources. > > But if you used the source, do include it in your reference list. Here is where Arlys and I have had many discussions. I feel that you should include it only if you quoted from it or used some specific piece of information from it. Just because you "used" it by reading it doesn't mean it should be cited. In the course of your research you will read *many* books and articles. Some of them will not be appropriate as sources. If you are thinking of including information from a poor source, consider that perhaps you need to have similar information from a more reliable source. Frankly, when I'm judging I scan down the sources they use. If I see things like Hill & Bucknell, Peacock, Gore, Iris Brookes, Wilcox, Norris and the like in the list, then I know that the person has probably done a superficial job of researching. If you've gathered the appropriate sources, you won't *need* to quote from these or use pictures or drawings from them. And it really doesn't matter if you read through them. You didn't really *use* them as a source. > In all this, don't be concerned too much about the judges and whatever > biases they may bring into the competition (the good judges are aware > of theirs, and the bad ones don't care). Your job is to present your > item and your research to the best of your ability. Anything else is a > random factor. But it can help you in terms of your presentation to > think of things that the judges might ask about. That's why it is so important to "assume the judges know nothing". You can't do anything about a judge with a frozen/closed mind. But any other judge is going to appreciate that you know your subject and will hopefully get some new information for themselves. (This is one of the few perks from doing judging. The rest is just work.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 12:57:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2HvlOL032571 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 12:57:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2HvBcC026391; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:57:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2Hv9S8007184; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:57:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2Hv5S8007165 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-44-048.jps.net ([209.165.44.48] helo=pavilion) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AGMTH-00051F-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 09:57:04 -0800 Message-ID: <001501c3a16b$6c56b420$302ca5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031101231357.02f9b8d0@64.87.54.245> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:02:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-ELNK-Originating-IP: 209.165.44.48 Subject: [h-cost] Backgrounds for photoshoots - Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I need a background too for my starchhouse, starching a ruff with poking sticks article, and I will probably resort to just whiting out the modern background with Fireworks (Dreamweavers version of photoshop) as is done in the Eyewitness series for economy sake. But in my idea generating moments, I did notice quite a few commercial buildings where I live have that half-timber tudor look. A dentist's office and a miniature golf course specifically are constructed with these materials and it's quite possible that such business might give access permission if approached and further enhancements can be made with imaging software. Or, you could fly to Europe......... Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction > At 10:03 PM 11/1/2003 -0600, you wrote: > >As for that background, what I really need is a plaster and woodframe wall > >inside with a tile floor ­ but my wife won't let me redo the apartment :) > > > Hi Marc > > Can you make a set in a spare room somewhere, even at a friend's? Make a > backdrop that looks like plaster and woodframe, with a small stage of the > tile floor, and then set the lights and whatever offstage? Sort of a > mini-theatre? You can even make it in parts, so you could store it > someplace until needed? > > And have you thought of making several shoes in different stages of > completion, so that photo shoots can go from one stage to another without > so much time with actual construction? You may be able to sell the > different shoes after you are done, especially if you make them in a close > range of sizes? > > Just a few ideas. > > Kimiko > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 12:58:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2HwAOL032575 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 12:58:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2HvWcC026426; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:57:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2HvVS8007351; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:57:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA2Hv7S8007137 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:57:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oq8VRkS1Y8JbnYhDsrYX80E=">; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 09:56:15 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JDZGGDEX; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 09:56:15 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:45:36 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the Subject of "Documentation" (long) Message-ID: <20031102.095509.1832.9.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-12,15-17 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I scribbled: > > But if you used the source, do include it in your reference list. > > Here is where Arlys and I have had many discussions. I feel that you > should include it only if you quoted from it or used some specific > piece of information from it. Just because you "used" it by reading > it doesn't mean it should be cited. In the course of your research > you will read *many* books and articles. Some of them will not be > appropriate as sources. If you are thinking of including information > from a poor source, consider that perhaps you need to have similar > information from a more reliable source. To clarify: by "use," I mean incorporated into your presentation. Reading something does not mean you used it. If you incoporate it, then you have used it, and all sources so used must be cited. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 13:08:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2I80OL032607 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 13:08:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2I7OcC027041; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:07:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2I7NS8012063; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:07:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2I7KS8011964 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:07:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a248.in-tch.com [66.62.107.48]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hA2HkJc20960 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:46:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FA54867.2B4104E6@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:09:43 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: hose gusset (was Re: Hose/stockings References: <3FA46B85.3090304@dandy.net> <3FA4B7A5.13533.185C8B9A@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And sometimes happy accidents happen in the middle of one's development as an artisan and/or scholar. Hearing about the stretchiness of linen from Robin is entirely different from actually seeing it happen--either in fitting a gown in one of her workshops, or having one of my ItalianRen gowns (linen for summer) drop its hem an entire foot on one very memorable, hot day at an event when the temps were in the 100s and some of us...well...had a waterfight. And of course, there are fortunate accidents like the invention of chocolate chip cookies (off-topic, sorry, but all of a sudden, I'm thinking it'd be fun to make them and I think I actually have all the ingredients! ). --sue kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > I have to laugh because an anthropologist I took classes from years > ago had been trying to replicate a type of flint arrowhead, but no > matter how hard he tried he just couldn't do it. That is he couldn't > do it until one time when he was a bit drunk with some of his anthro > buddies and they were doing some flint napping they ended up with > *exactly* the right shape/pattern on the arrowhead. > > Sometimes "accidents" of this sort let us know some things that study > and intellect can't tell us. It's the reason why living history is > not as ill thought of as it has been in the past and is becoming more > and more accepted. Sometimes people do learn and understand better > from *doing* an activity than merely studying about it. > > That isn't to say that you totally depend on that. You still would > want to do the research and back up your theories as to why you think > that this may be the way they did something. (That's where the > scholarship comes in.) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 13:18:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2IIwOL032629 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 13:18:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2IINcC027594; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:18:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2IILS8017886; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:18:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2IIIS9017840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-66.sonic.net [209.148.112.66]) (authenticated bits=0)hA2IICtq004844 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:18:13 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA54B0D.5050501@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 10:21:01 -0800 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Backgrounds for photoshoots - Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031101231357.02f9b8d0@64.87.54.245> <001501c3a16b$6c56b420$302ca5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <001501c3a16b$6c56b420$302ca5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We use Corel PhotoPaint; but anyway, you can do anything in terms of putting people on backgrounds, putting two or more people in one picture, all kinds of stuff. I do it all the time. It is time consuming though. The problem is you can't usually just plop the figures onto the background. There are all these little areas, like the underarms of the people, where you end up fillling in detailed realistic background by hand, bit by bit. What you fill in depends on the shapes of the background and the figures you put on it, but there are usually several areas. Fran Lisa Sinervo wrote: >I need a background too for my starchhouse, starching a ruff with poking >sticks article, and I will probably resort to just whiting out the modern >background with Fireworks (Dreamweavers version of photoshop) as is done in >the Eyewitness series for economy sake. But in my idea generating moments, >I did notice quite a few commercial buildings where I live have that >half-timber tudor look. A dentist's office and a miniature golf course >specifically are constructed with these materials and it's quite possible >that such business might give access permission if approached and further >enhancements can be made with imaging software. Or, you could fly to >Europe......... > > > ------------------------------------------ Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 13:22:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2IMXOL032635 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 13:22:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2ILucC027791; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:21:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2ILuS8019366; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:21:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2ILrS8019311 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:21:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a248.in-tch.com [66.62.107.48]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hA2I0rc26873 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:00:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FA54BD1.6F5AC591@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:24:17 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the Subject of "Documentation" (long) References: <3FA4C442.6535.188DD2A7@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sometimes we just don't know a particular thing or area (which I run into occasionally when judging clothing or needlework that's out of my personal range of experience). I remember the first time I ran across someone talking about doing a fold-once hem on a garment made of fulled wool--this was years ago, before the MoL books were commonly available over here in my part of the US, and the contestant's research and sources were *way* ahead of mine. If she hadn't told me, specifically, why she'd hemmed her gown the way she had, I would have said "oh, sloppy job", and marked her down, all from *my* ignorance. --sue, always willing to learn more kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > That's why it is so important to "assume the judges know nothing". > You can't do anything about a judge with a frozen/closed mind. But > any other judge is going to appreciate that you know your subject and > will hopefully get some new information for themselves. (This is one > of the few perks from doing judging. The rest is just work.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 13:34:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2IYpOL032654 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 13:34:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2IYLcC028471; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2IYGS8024509; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:34:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2IYBS9024412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:34:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA2IXcPX024819 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 13:33:39 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 13:33:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA54E54.1040409@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 13:35:00 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <3FA4C442.6535.188DD2A7@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FA4C442.6535.188DD2A7@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Subject: [h-cost] Sidebar on Fonts: On the Subject of "Documentation" (long) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: http://usability.gov/guidelines/fonts.html Guideline: Use either a familiar serif or sans serif font to achieve the best possible reading speed. Do not mix serif and sans serif fonts within the text, because it may decrease reading speed. Comments: Research shows no reliable differences in reading speed or user preferences between 10-point Times Roman, Georgia serif fonts, Helvetica, or Verdana sans serif fonts. Source: Boyarski, D., Neuwirth, C., Forlizzi, J., and Regli, S.H. (1998). A study of fonts designed for screen display, CHI 98 Conference Proceedings, 87-94. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 14:30:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2JUnOL032761 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 14:30:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2JU8cC002002; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 12:30:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2JU6ah019460; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 12:30:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2JU2ah019384 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 12:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m90.in-tch.com [216.166.191.90]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hA2J92c23450 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 12:09:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FA55BC9.5FCF01D9@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 12:32:25 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:16th century sock clocks? References: <200310310322.h9V3MFC1023243@net.indra.com> <3FA2A11C.9050500@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Knitting was certainly around before Elizabeth, so couldn't your H8 character knit something else besides sox? --sue Cozit / Liz wrote: > > sigh... I'd been trying to come up with a Henry VIII character for faire > that would knit. No luck unless German.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 15:17:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2KHWOL000656 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 15:17:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2KGtcC004531; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 13:16:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2KGr8B011088; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 13:16:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA2KGn8C011014 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 13:16:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2003110215164307831 for ; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 15:16:43 -0500 Received: from mccc.edu ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id hA2KGh907150 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 15:16:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA565A2.5AE095EF@mccc.edu> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 15:14:28 -0500 From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Silk at JoAnn's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Was just at my local Joann Fabrics and they had a beautiful lightweight silk that was stitched in 1 inch squares with pearls sewn in the centerin that just off-white color. I think that's what I'm going to use my 50% off coupon for-- at $39.99/yd that's the only way I'm buying it. Now to figure out what to make!. Since the pearls are most certainly fake, I wonder how it will take dye. Anyone dyed fake pearls before? Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 16:53:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2LruOL001790 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 16:53:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2LrFcC010822; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 14:53:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2LrBZQ025153; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 14:53:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2Lr7ZQ025123 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 14:53:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AGQ9i-000Aev-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:53:07 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 12:56:05 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc, Have you seen "Techniques of Medieval Armour Reproduction" by Brian R Price, published by Paladin Press? It's an excellent book, aimed squarely at people wanting to make armour with modern tools, but I think it's approach could be relevant to you. Where they are demonstrating techniques, they just show the hands, the tools and the item being made. For pictures of an armourers workshop, and that kind of thing, it uses reproductions of period woodcuts or engravings. For close-ups you could get away with a wooden bench or maybe a leather apron if you work on your lap, perhaps a modern casual shirt with sleeves rolled up so the cuffs aren't distracting, and no jewellery. I think if you needed to show techniques on a larger scale, I would be happier with non-descript modern clothing, "a person of today showing how it was done then", unless unless your aim is to show how to reproduce a medieval shoemakers' workshop and clothing. Jean Marc Carlson wrote >Ok, I have a weird question that this thread has made me think of. I'm >not sure there's a right answer, but some opinions would be >appreciated. > >I am doing a book on medival shoemaking. There will be several >sections in which processes will be demonstrated. My plan has been to >have the model in clothing appropriate to the period being discussed - >nothing exciting, just pretty dull working class clothing. Will this >be too big a distraction from the goal of the book, will it be too >"cute", it wouldn't look right with someone in modern dress doing it, >any thoughts? > >Marc > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send instant messages to anyone on your contact list with MSN >Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 16:54:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2LshOL001824 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 16:54:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2LrpcC010856; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 14:53:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2LrpZQ025383; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 14:53:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2Lr7ZQ025121 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 14:53:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AGQ9i-000Aew-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:53:06 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 12:59:38 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair References: <00c701c3a060$bebd7de0$b9718690@clarke> <003401c3a0ac$fa428b70$0200a8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> In-Reply-To: <003401c3a0ac$fa428b70$0200a8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How is her hennin constructed? I've heard a lot of theories, but I didn't think there was enough evidence to confirm any of them. How does it stay on? Jean Sablerose wrote > >I have it on good authority from someone who has worn a properly >constructed 15th century hennin that plucking wasn't necessary. The >hennin takes care of removing hair from that area for you! She's still >growing her bangs back.... > >Tayla >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dawn" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:09 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair > > >> Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: >> >> > Then there's the elizabethan habit of plucking the _hairline_ as >well to >> > create a high brow (no plucking required for me). >> >> >> I went looking a couple months ago on that, and I am now wondering if >> this isn't one of those 'costume myths' that's being repeated in >books. >> Granted, I didn't do exhaustive research, just looked through a dozen >or >> two portraits in history and art books from the period, but it didn't >> seem like foreheads were being plucked to me. The line in the >supposedly >> plucked portraits wasn't noticeably higher than the non-plucked >portraits. >> >I can't say I've ever noticed it in Elizabethan portraits, >but they definitely plucked the forehead under 15th >century hennins. Those hairlines go back so far! I >often curse my low forehead looking at them and >think 'I am not plucking my forehead, I am not plucking >my forehead....'. > >Claire > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 16:54:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2LspOL001829 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 16:54:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2LrucC010870; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 14:53:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2LrtZQ025423; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 14:53:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2Lr7ZQ025122 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 14:53:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AGQ9i-000Aex-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:53:07 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 13:16:24 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moire silk source References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031031121809.0298fc50@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote > >On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Kimiko Small wrote: > >> At 11:14 AM 10/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: >> >if you could find silk faille, you could make your own moire... >> >> How would you do that? I thought it would take a lot of pressure. Do you >> have directions on this, or can point us to directions on this? > >I'm guessing she means real "watered silk," which if I understand >correctly was the original type of moire, created with selective >waterstaining. Today's "wood-grain" moire patterns are created with >pressure or heat and rollers, I think -- I know that most moires I've seen >have repeating patterns, not random ones. > >Today, "watered silk" is a synonym for modern moire fabric, and has >nothing to do with water. > >I'd *love* to know how to make watered silk, though I'm sure I'd make >absolute hash out of expensive silk if I tried. > >--Robin I achieved a patch of watered silk when my steam iron dribbled - on a garment I was making from shot silk brought back for me from Singapore by a friend on a round-the-world trip :-( Luckily I had enough spare to replace that panel. So getting water on it certainly works, but I don't know how you'd make an even pattern. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 17:25:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2MPDOL002599 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 17:25:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2MOZcC012748; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 15:24:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2MOWNM009226; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 15:24:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2MOTNM009176 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 15:24:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2685425CE for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 17:28:59 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FA5849D.3040101@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 16:26:37 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk at JoAnn's References: <3FA565A2.5AE095EF@mccc.edu> In-Reply-To: <3FA565A2.5AE095EF@mccc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Pinner wrote: > Was just at my local Joann Fabrics and they had a beautiful lightweight > silk that was stitched in 1 inch squares with pearls sewn in the > centerin that just off-white color. .... > Anyone dyed fake pearls before? Oooohhh, I saw that. Nice stuff. I notice they are carrying a larger and larger selection of bridal silks now. Unfortunately today I wanted wool, and I think there were maybe 3 bolts in the entire store, none of which was what I wanted. I found more of that hot pink linen, but they were asking $4.99 for it, even on the clearance wall. RIT is on sale for 99 cents, and I forgot to get some. Argh! Anyway, I have seen fake pearls that other people have dyed, and sometimes the inside part of the pearl takes the dye, but the irridescent coating they put on the outside won't. So if the pearl is scratched, or chipped the color shows, and it shows where the hole has been drilled. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 17:32:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA2MW7OL002632 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 17:32:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2MVdcC013256; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 15:31:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2MVaNM012374; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 15:31:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA2MVXNN012301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 15:31:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA2MV0PX025703 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 17:31:00 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:30:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA585F9.5050503@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:32:25 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair/hennin References: <00c701c3a060$bebd7de0$b9718690@clarke> <003401c3a0ac$fa428b70$0200a8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jean Waddie wrote: > How is her hennin constructed? I've heard a lot of theories, but I > didn't think there was enough evidence to confirm any of them. How does > it stay on? I have a truncated-cone/butterfly style which has a basketwork core structure. It's springy yet holds its shape. I managed to wear away some of my hair wearing it one afternoon. I have since corrected the problems that lead to the, er, friction allopecia, and it stays on by a more gentle friction on my head, plus a steel hatpin through a tight bun. At present, I believe the state-of-the-art theories are all conjecture. I'd love to hear otherwise! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 20:28:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA31S0OL003420 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:28:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA31RIcC023456; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:27:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA31RDuK000184; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:27:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f21.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA31RBuK000123 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:27:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 17:27:05 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.51 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 01:27:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.51] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:27:05 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2003 01:27:05.0795 (UTC) FILETIME=[9763C930:01C3A1A9] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat: >Or some sort of draped fabric. Possible. Since I have to do 5 separate series of photos, it's entirely possible that I may use ALL of these ideas :) >You might want to look at portraits of the time to see what would have been >seen around the shoes. Sometimes it might be a plain wooden plank floor >which you can find at a local Boy Scout camp. Our local Boy Scout camp uses concrete. There aren't that many "portraits" from the periods that these shoemaking pictures are going to be coming from, really. I have some ideas from Das Hausbuch der Mendelschen images from the 1400s. For the centuries before that I'll be making some educated guesses. Fran: >...Then there's the last one I worked for, where the editors were involved >from the very beginning, from working on the outline till the end. In daily >phone communication for months. That would just drive me insane. I work best when left to do my work. Kimiko: >Can you make a set in a spare room somewhere, even at a friend's? Make a >backdrop that looks like plaster and woodframe... I've been giving this some thought. It may be the best way for some of what I need to do. >...And have you thought of making several shoes in different stages of >completion I have -very- limited supplies of correctly tanned leather. I don't even have enough that making mistakes in assembly is an option. Thank you though. Marc (My photo manipulation skills are limited to removing parking lots from exterior shots, things like that.) _________________________________________________________________ Cheer a special someone with a fun Halloween eCard from American Greetings! Go to http://www.msn.americangreetings.com/index_msn.pd?source=msne134 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 21:17:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA32HeOL004221 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 21:17:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA31t1cG025194; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:56:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA31n5uK009458; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:49:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA31n2uL009404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-68.sonic.net [209.148.112.68]) (authenticated bits=0)hA31mttq003493 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 17:48:56 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA5B4B0.8050404@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:51:44 -0800 From: Fran Grimble User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >> ...Then there's the last one I worked for, where the editors were >> involved from the very beginning, from working on the outline till >> the end. In daily phone communication for months. > > > That would just drive me insane. I work best when left to do my work. I know what you mean; having tried, as a writer, to work with a few editors whose attitude was they thought up the work, and I should just write it according to their specs. Sometimes unworkable specs. So I'm in your camp as a writer. There are, however, authors who want their hands held; who want lots of editorial guidance and also want to call the editor at odd times and say, " I can't go on!" (a rather common mid-book syndrome BTW). Some editors give all authors the same treatment regardless of the author's experience and temperament. Of course this does not work. At the beginning of the project you have to figure out a lot of things about the author, and say exactly the right things to establish a suscessful relationship. Anyway, the authors who just went off and did their work were a lot easier on my schedule and stress level. On the other hand, it was really nice to help people establish a career in writing more books. Also, their problems were often so easy to solve and it cheered them up so much to get them solved, that it was very rewarding. Fran ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 21:20:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA32KcOL004230 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 21:20:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA32JwcC026696; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:19:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA32JvYF022504; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:19:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA32JtYF022464 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:19:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.29 ([204.127.135.29]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <200311030219501130085ne7e>; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:19:50 +0000 Received: from [12.82.155.162] by 204.127.135.29; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 02:19:49 +0000 From: mmcnealy@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Watermarked silk, was Moire silk source Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 02:19:49 +0000 Message-Id: <110320030219.12470.3337@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: bW1jbmVhbHlAYXR0Lm5ldA== X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been thinking about this over the weekend, about what stains silk, how to get it to stay in and not wash out and talking to a couple of folks. I haven't gotton to the library yet, that's later this week. But for right now I am doing a couple of experiments. I know that wine stains silk permanently, so now I have three swatches of silk, one with spots made from tap water, one with spots made from a water/white wine mix and one with spots made from straight white wine ($2.99 special from Trader Joe's). I have let them dry, then ironed them to cook the sugars in the wine to make the browning. The wine spots are leaving a good line around the edges and is visible from further away, which is the look I am going for, as this should pass the 6 foot visibility test. The spots were pretty easy to make using my fingers or a tableware spoon. I have no documentation that this is how it was done, but it does look like watermarks, and how often have I spilled or had spilled a drink on a good party dress? -Marion > I achieved a patch of watered silk when my steam iron dribbled - on a > garment I was making from shot silk brought back for me from Singapore > by a friend on a round-the-world trip :-( Luckily I had enough spare to > replace that panel. So getting water on it certainly works, but I don't > know how you'd make an even pattern. > > Jean > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 22:32:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA33WwOL004467 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:32:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA33WGcC000928; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:32:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA33WDWE023406; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:32:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA33W9WF023363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:32:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (acty4115.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.249.115]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hA33X4V2023221 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:33:05 -0500 Message-ID: <3FA5CC33.8010403@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:32:03 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: hose gusset (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings References: <000901c3a14e$d2a67070$316453d8@Kass> In-Reply-To: <000901c3a14e$d2a67070$316453d8@Kass> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I don't believe that the first stocking knitters said, >"We have to make a triangular gusset in the ankle so it looks like cut >hose." They had to make a turn there to make the stockings fit. The >result simply looks like a gusset, but it's only because the purpose is >the same, not that one was trying to look like the other. Convergent >evolution may not exist in biological circles, but maybe it does in >textile ones. =) > >Kass > >Good Point. The only reason that I can see that causes the need to make the triangular inset at the ankle of cuthose is the need to fill the triangle space made up when the fabric is cut to fit over the instep, and the two remaining bits to either side fold back and are joined at the heel. In a way, the "gusset" piece in the knitted hose fills the same function, although it is not the only way to do it (the same way that the abovementioned method of making cuthose is not the only way to do it). Sometimes I guess we are searching for a more complex reason when a simple one is staring us in the face! Cheers, Mike T. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 23:13:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA34DsOL004545 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:13:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA34D7cC003113; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 21:13:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA34D6v4011448; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 21:13:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA34D3v4011406 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 21:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-64-160-176-168.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.168]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A05722F970 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:16:36 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <016F9120-0DB4-11D8-AD8E-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:12:57 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Subject: [h-cost] off topic - linen for tablecloth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm looking for some linen or linen-cotton blend that would be a nice weight and hand for a tablecloth and napkin set. Has anyone purchased any recently that seemed like a good option for this? thanks! .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 2 23:53:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA34rKOL004634 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:53:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA34qWcC005009; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 21:52:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA34qSv4027750; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 21:52:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA34qRv4027738 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 21:52:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-50-110.jps.net ([209.165.50.110] helo=[209.165.58.99]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AGWhV-0004uy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 23:52:25 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FA54BD1.6F5AC591@in-tch.com> References: <3FA4C442.6535.188DD2A7@localhost> <3FA54BD1.6F5AC591@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:46:17 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: On the Subject of "Documentation" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A couple of brief bits of advice I've gotten that have made thinking through documentation lots easier. [*] (1) The basic outline is: - Say what THEY did; - Say what YOU did; - Explain any differences. (2) Your judges may or may not know things about what you've done (at least until you tell them). But what documentation demonstrates is that YOU know, and that you did things the way you did ON PURPOSE, not by accident! Also, the following, from a class I taught a couple of years ago. Some of these may not apply to you, of course; take what you need! (3) GETTING IT DOWN ON PAPER. This is one of the major difficulties for many people. A lot of people find it easy to talk, but excruciatingly hard to write. If getting it on paper is hard for you, enlist a friend to help: talk to them about your project, then one or both of you write down what has just been said. Brainstorm a first draft and get it done: only later do you go back and revise it. My favorite quote from the poet Dylan Thomas: "I either write drunk and revise sober, or write sober and revise drunk." (They're two different processes!) SOME COMMON MISTAKES IN DOCUMENTATION. Mistake # 1. Trying to pass something off as "period" which you know or strongly suspect is not. Mistake #2. Documentation that has nothing to do with the actual item being documented (i.e. documentation about the politics of the Crusades for a helmet). Mistake # 3. Documentation of what YOU did to make your project, but no documentation of how THEY made or used the same item in the Middle Ages (i.e. all about how you brewed your vegetable dyes in a modern pot, but not about what they had available). Mistake # 4. The opposite of #3: lots about what THEY did, nothing about what YOU did (less common, but still possible -- i.e. all about how medieval trestles were made and used but not about how you made yours). Mistake #5. Forgetting to document common stuff you think everyone knows. Keep it to one or two sentences, but do include it (i.e.. "There is a purse dated about 1400, knitted with similar designs using several colors, in Chur, Switzerland" shows that knitting, purses, colored yarns, multicolored designs, etc.were all present at that date). Mistake #6. Trying to hide or make excuses for modern methods and materials. Sometimes the correct materials or methods are not available, or are toxic or environmentally destructive. Sometimes you can't afford or don't have the skill to handle medieval materials or methods. In either case, say so, explain how the original objects were made, and explain why you chose the substitutes you did. Mistake #7. Assuming that if you have a very early date (like Neolithic or Roman times) and a very late date (like now), something "must" have been present all the time in between. Not so: things go out of fashion, and sometimes entire arts die out and are only rediscovered hundreds of years later. You need to show it was present in *your* times. Mistake # 8. Assuming that the information you find in later sources about how something was "traditionally" done or in "ancient" times is true for the Middle Ages. If your source doesn't give an actual date, assume it's no earlier than the 19th century, the Victorians being great ones for lumping all "old time" and "traditional" stuff together regardless of dates. Mistake #9. Not making the exact links clear between your project and your sources, especially if your documentation (i.e. of design sources, etc.) uses different objects than what you actually did (i.e. using manuscript illuminations as sources for ceramic tile design). Explain clearly what the connection is and why you think it's a good one. Mistake # 10. Not clearly identifying the sources you used. (Full book or article title, author, periodical or publisher, and date. For books the ISBN number is nice too.) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 01:45:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA36jGOL004788 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 01:45:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA36iacC010016; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:44:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA36iT4Y010626; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:44:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA36iO4Y010563 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:44:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-226.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.226]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA36i8Mf011015 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:44:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031102223240.05ad2a50@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:34:10 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: stretchy (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings In-Reply-To: References: <3FA46CD3.9000701@dandy.net> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> <3FA46CD3.9000701@dandy.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >is dense & not stretchy. >dense and not very flexible. Point of clarification re. linen and silk stockings: Do you mean 'very little stretch' or do you mean 'no stretch at all'? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 01:47:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA36lnOL004794 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 01:47:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA36kDcC010174; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:46:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA36kC4Y011578; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:46:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA36j24Y010974 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-226.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.226]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA36i8Md011015 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:44:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031102222758.05b8cda0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:31:10 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: hose gusset (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings In-Reply-To: <3FA46B85.3090304@dandy.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20031028225329.05ad0ec0@mail.frys.com> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031028225329.05ad0ec0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think there were knitted stockings before that gusset. I think all the 16th-18th century stockings I have ever seen photos of have that gusset, clocks or not. >Hi. I got that part. See below where I mention that my wife states the >very same thing. I am wondering, however, as I stated (the egg and chicken >idea), which one influenced the other first. This would require a study of >knitted hose before the introduction of clocking, to see how those >pre-clocked knitted ones were constructed. This would provide the >conjecture with some needed docs, although it wouldn't necessarily mean >anything, as pre late 16th Cent. cut hose still used the ankle gusset >method of construction. I have two pair of cuthose in linen, and I can't >really see the difference in the feel of the wear. Frankly, the ankle >gusset ones were harder to construct, and have more stress points on them >than the others, and use up greater portions of non-symmetrical fabric >bits. Mike T. > >>Immitation is not why knit hose have that gusset, even tho the first >>knitted stockings were probably made by someone looking at how >>cut-and-sewn hose were made. You knit that gusset in there so the top of >>the foot sticks out at an angle from the leg (and it is about the >>simplest way to accomplish this). Then you knit the heel, then you knit >>the rest of the foot. While you're still knitting the leg, you can >>decorate above where the gusset will be. >> >>There are several ways to make the heel, foot, and toe of a stocking. >>The book Folk Socks shows several, along with the working directions for >>each. >> >>> My wife, the knitter in the family, tells me that the "imitation >>> gusset" is actually a useful part of the construction of the stocking, >>> easing the transition between the heel and the foot as they are made >>> from the leg of the stocking. Like the chicken and the egg, I don't >>> know which came first, or for what purpose. Later knit stockings, also >>> in Davenport, also show decoration on the backseams. >>>Cheers, Mike T. >> >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 02:26:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA37QZOL014677 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:26:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA37PtcC012459; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:25:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA37PsX1027835; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:25:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav18.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA37PrX1027800 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:25:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:25:47 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav18.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:25:47 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <707F0586.2DD19B2F.0BD9917F@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate ReproductionClothing") Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 02:24:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2003 07:25:47.0798 (UTC) FILETIME=[B380D360:01C3A1DB] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I am doing a book on medival shoemaking. There will be several sections in > > which processes will be demonstrated. My plan has been to have the model in > > clothing appropriate to the period being discussed - nothing exciting, just > > pretty dull working class clothing. Will this be too big a distraction from > > the goal of the book, will it be too "cute", it wouldn't > > look right with > > someone in modern dress doing it, any thoughts? I agree with those who said that people will pick on you no matter what. But if you spell out clearly the purpose of your book (and in this case, I guess it is on SHOES), and that you don't focus on clothing, just want to provide a feel of what the clothing might look like, then you'll be fine. I like to see what shoes are supposed to go with what. Sometimes, our interpretation of time division and styles are different, and we're not sure what kind of shoe would go with what. Having models would solve that little dilemma. Do let us know when your book comes out. I'm interested. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 02:29:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA37TNOL015683 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:29:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA37SlcC012609; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:28:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA37SkX1028887; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:28:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav46.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA37SjX1028848 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:28:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:28:39 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav46.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:28:39 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003301c39fbf$a1a87e90$3d48ccd1@Kass> <200310311959.01532.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 02:27:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2003 07:28:39.0846 (UTC) FILETIME=[1A0D4460:01C3A1DC] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > But some women are. Did you see the recent movie "Anna and the King" with > Jodie Foster as Anna? "Anna" is set in the 1860's, the height of the wide > round-bottomed crinolines, and Foster was so awkward in them, it was > pathetic. (Particularly since her character was supposed to be a proper > Englishwoman who would have been dealing with them for years....) But who would have thought to get someone to train her? I don't think that's something they would have thought of. Or we wouldn't have so many actresses portraying ladies in corsets actually trying to slouch. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 02:32:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA37WJOL016482 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:32:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA37VhcC012743; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:31:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA37VgX1000196; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:31:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav14.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA37VcX1029973 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:31:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:31:33 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav14.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:31:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 02:30:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2003 07:31:33.0442 (UTC) FILETIME=[8185EA20:01C3A1DC] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Marc will correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression was that Marc was > asking how best to handle photographs of shoemaking techniques, not > finished shoes on models. So the focus (if I understand correctly) would > be on the craftsman's use of tools and materials (e.g. how to hold things, > how to use a tool, working position, etc.), not on the look of the > craftsman himself, which would be incidental. There's a legitimate concern > that it might be distracting (and maybe a misplaced effort) to try to > achieve a period look with the craftsman (clothes, hair, facial and body > type, etc.) as well as his workspace (table, the chair, walls, lighting, > etc.). Ooh, this changes everything. Then I agree, I think having the work-in-progress pictures with the models in period clothing would be distracting. I think it would somehow look wrong, because you couldn't possibly have all the tiny little details right. If they were in period clothing, I'd expect them to be using only period tools and using those tools exactly in the period way, in a period setting.... I think I'd prefer someone dressed plainly in modern clothes. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 02:48:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA37mbOL022634 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:48:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA37lmcC013130; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA37lgX1007388; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:47:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA37lcX2007363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:47:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA37mDOS021090 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:48:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA37mC2F021088 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:48:12 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:48:12 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <003301c39fbf$a1a87e90$3d48ccd1@Kass> <200310311959.01532.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311030248.12540.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 02 November 2003 02:27 am, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > But some women are. Did you see the recent movie "Anna and the King" > > with Jodie Foster as Anna? "Anna" is set in the 1860's, the height of > > the wide round-bottomed crinolines, and Foster was so awkward in them, it > > was pathetic. (Particularly since her character was supposed to be a > > proper Englishwoman who would have been dealing with them for years....) > > But who would have thought to get someone to train her? I don't think > that's something they would have thought of. Or we wouldn't have so many > actresses portraying ladies in corsets actually trying to slouch. The movie paid enough attention to historical detail in terms of setting and the costumes themselves; I would have expected them to do better. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 04:13:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA39DVOL021070 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 04:13:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA39ClcC015842; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:12:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA39CiCs007432; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:12:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA39CdCs007415 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:12:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from p217-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.217] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AGalI-0008CN-00; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:12:36 +1300 Message-ID: <009401c3a1ea$9f080cf0$d9cdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c701c3a060$bebd7de0$b9718690@clarke><003401c3a0ac$fa428b70$0200a8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <3FA585F9.5050503@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair/hennin Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:12:34 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO <> I just use the black band and it's all good;) And I've lost a *lot* of hair thanks to being on stuff used in chemo, and other wonderful drugs to keep me mobile, so hair loss is a *huge* concern for me. My black band is two layers of black velveteen and a layer of blanket wool in the middle. The loop is covered in black velvet and sits *on* the wool so the wire is very well padded before sitting on my head. it now also hooks up the back and while there is a lot of tension it's also a bit awkward for me to get all my hair into a pony tail, so much hair is squished inside the band ranther than being pulled all the way through. The the hennin squishes on top (the wire frame is also covered by a layer of felt and the velvet of the cover as it's turned to the inside to neaten. I don't need a pin, and although it sits far back in my photo, it now sits much more upright like in the Petrus Christus girl in teal with black hennin and veil. The hat can also sit far back without much worry about it falling off too should I want to wear it like the particular English style like Elizabeth Woodville et al. But yes, the band as I made it is a bit of a median between the hennin and hair;) As for the high hairline.. I credit a lot of that to artistic manipulation. Especially later in the century when beauty rather than "reality" became more important in portraiture and the limitations of illuminatiosn to get much detail. I have a photo of an effigy that shows a much more natural hairline and it looks rather more like I'd expect a woman of moderation to have. rather than someone following the extremes of fashion. I may have save the whole page so I can direct to the site maybe if anyone wants to see... I'm hopeless at remembering things like this though... michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 04:19:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA39JdOL022436 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 04:19:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA39J4cC016106; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:19:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA39J1Cs009601; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA39IwCs009570 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:18:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from p217-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.217] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AGarP-0004ch-00; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:18:55 +1300 Message-ID: <009c01c3a1eb$83561870$d9cdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3F8EEF25.433.19EADEAC@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume books I've just bought, and why costumingistaking a back seat now:( Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:18:57 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > If you want the ISBN still I'll hunt the book from the recesses > that > > is my room for you. > > It'd be much appreciated! Thanks in advance! Right.. and this is a case in point of my last email;) I lost the book, then found it and forgot about it... however she is right here... Anne of Cleves Fourth wife of Henry VIII Mary Saaler The Rubicon Press, 1995 ISBN 0-948695-41-2 There is a nice photo of a portrait of her by the workshop of Barthyl Bruyn which looks like a better version of the one we are familiar with.. she has stripey sleeves and is holding a pink. Her head gear is different too. Much more flattering than the other one. I thought I read in the text that the painting has been destroyed/lost and only b/w photos remain... michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 05:16:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3AG6OL011792 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 05:16:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3AFRcC018228; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 03:15:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3AFPnd011875; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 03:15:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta05bw.bigpond.com (mta05bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.153]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3AFLnd011009 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 03:15:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from clarke ([144.135.24.84]) by mta05bw.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HNR00LNUTMW7Y@mta05bw.email.bigpond.com> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:11:21 +1000 (EST) Received: from 144.139.224.9 ([144.139.224.9]) by bwmam06.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 47/28602936); Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:11:11 +0000 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:11:05 +1100 From: Purple Elephant Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair To: Historical Costume Message-id: <007001c3a1f2$d0dfeec0$09e08b90@clarke> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <3FA4B7A5.304.185C8A90@localhost> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair > > > Plus, as I said, I have a really low forehead (and a > > widow's peak to boot). I'd have about 2 inches of > > hair showing if I wore a hennin on the line they're > > most often depicted. That's a lot to lose. Especially > > since I don't really have bangs. I have hippy hair - even > > fairly close to my hairline it's at least waist length. > > As Robin pointed out (probably in a conversation rather than on > here), not everyone was cut out to have that sort of "fashionable" > hairline. > > If your genetics is for low foreheads, then chances are you wouldn't > have been in the position of wearing one. Someone with a "white > bread" European ancestry (English or French especially) would have a > much better chance, for instance, than someone with Eastern European > or mediterranean ancestry. > Heh, heh, spot on, my ancestors are peasants all the way back :-) I guess it's like any other style when I look at it and think 'I am so not suited for that'. I wouldn't have been suited for it x number of years ago either, but I would still have been trying to wear it (chances are). Still I have to say I'm rather less inclined to have a go at those styles I wouldn't look like the appropriate ideal in. Not only for the sake of my own vanity, but also from a desire to not misrepresent that period by looking wrong. But I guess that's flawed logic in that I am not really misrepresenting it, just looking like someone who is my height/shape/colouring would in that style. Am I going round in circles yet? > Also, it depends on how you wear your hair. There is a phenomenon > called "traction alopecia" where hair that has been kept tightly > pulled (from pony tails or tight cornrowing) tends to thin out at the > edges. If someone constantly wears their hair *tightly* pulled back > from the forehead (especially if they have heavy hair) they will > usually end up losing hair along the forehead line, so that it can > end up looking like it's been plucked. > > I've always thought that the ladies with the hennins look more like > they had been having traction alopecia (with perhaps plucking just > the few stray hairs that occur with that) than plucking a low > forehead until it was the fashionable height (which usually doesn't > give quite the same look.) > A sort of 'which came first, the baldness or the hennin?' Maybe one could train oneself into a hennin style by wearing tight pigtails mundanely. If you have the sort of hair that cooperates with that sort of thing anyway. And, as I said before, if you don't mind showing up in a modern context with odd hair. I guess a modern hairline in a hennin might be one of those anachronisms we might just have to put up with (in ourselves as well as in others). >From all this rambling you may or may not have worked out that this is one of those historical styles that I think is rather lovely and elegant, but have so far avoided doing because I would just look wrong in it. Claire. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 07:30:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3CU3OL012068 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:30:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3CRbcC022927; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 05:27:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3CRYbK011720; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 05:27:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3CRTbK011685 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 05:27:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hA3CSmA07645.; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:28:48 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:27:28 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:26:56 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: modern distortions, and Shogun Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know there's at least one glaring error in "Shogun", but I can't remember whether it's in the series or just the book. Circa 1600, our hero shows the Japanese how to use muskets with bayonets, which is clever of him as the bayonet will not be invented for another 80 years or so! Kate Bunting (ploughing through hundreds of messages after a week off with flu) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 08:20:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3DK7OL012202 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:20:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3DJPcC025693; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:19:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3DJN11001358; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:19:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3DJK11001333 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:19:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.105] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4641A40124; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 08:13:08 -0500 Message-ID: <000e01c3a20d$bacedea0$695183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:23:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] bits and pieces X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hA3DK7OL012202 Status: RO My present design work puts me in an Eighteenth C mode. >From JoAnns last week, found a piece of ersatz leather, buff color, on the remnant table. Just what I needed for a hunt jacket as seen in Revolution in Fashion. Sewed up like a dream, presented the stiff leather look I needed, and when overdyed for aging purposes, came out quite realistic without changing the 'hand' but muting the white flannel backing. >From Fire Mountain latest catalogue: Components for making buttons from any flat surface jewel for what have you! Metal findings are in 'gold and silver' and can be stacked. Great possibilities. Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 08:47:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3DlROL013264 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:47:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3DkYcC026889; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:46:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3DkR11012084; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:46:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3DkO11012030 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:46:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.150.26277e8c (4196) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:46:10 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <150.26277e8c.2cd7b621@aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:46:09 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Watermarked silk, was Moire silk source To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe "watermarked" silk, at least by the 18th century, was done with heated rollers, not real water spots. I think the most difficult task you will have is getting any kind of uniformity or regularity over a range of yards. Granted it doesn't need to be totally regular, but you don't want, say dime sized spots on parts and dinner plate sized on others without control. I could see how you could cut smaller pieces out of areas with smaller spots, and larger out of areas with larger spots. But the whole endeavor sounds kind of risky to me--you risk ruining yards of perfectly good silk. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 09:07:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3E7MOL013338 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:07:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3E6dcC028018; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:06:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3E6aDr020396; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:06:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3E6VDr020373 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:06:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.106] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AF7634F10050; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 09:00:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c3a214$53e57c60$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <150.26277e8c.2cd7b621@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Watermarked silk, was Moire silk source Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:11:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On the subject of 'watermarked fab., I found a wonderful yardage of what appeared to be 'moiré in Boston that I later used for a 17th C costume. When the bottom got unfortunately wet, the watermarked features of the fabric disappeared. I was not aware of how the fashion 'stain' was set. Now I do, and thankyou for this discussion. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Watermarked silk, was Moire silk source > I believe "watermarked" silk, at least by the 18th century, was done with > heated rollers, not real water spots. > > I think the most difficult task you will have is getting any kind of > uniformity or regularity over a range of yards. Granted it doesn't need to be totally > regular, but you don't want, say dime sized spots on parts and dinner plate > sized on others without control. I could see how you could cut smaller pieces > out of areas with smaller spots, and larger out of areas with larger spots. > But the whole endeavor sounds kind of risky to me--you risk ruining yards of > perfectly good silk. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 09:09:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3E9fOL013346 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:09:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3E8xcC028107; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:08:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3E8wDr021316; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:08:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3E8sDr021282 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:08:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.249.181.21] (pool181-67.patriot.net [209.249.181.67]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hA3E8lQD013720 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:08:53 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031102223240.05ad2a50@mail.frys.com> References: <3FA46CD3.9000701@dandy.net> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> <3FA46CD3.9000701@dandy.net> <4.3.1.2.20031102223240.05ad2a50@mail.frys.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:08:30 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:31 PM -0800 11/2/03, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >I don't think there were knitted stockings before that gusset. I >think all the 16th-18th century stockings I have ever seen photos of >have that gusset, clocks or not. I take it you mean only European stockings? The coarse socks at the Museum of London do not have gussets, and I think some of the Middle Eastern are also constructed differently. >Point of clarification re. linen and silk stockings: Do you mean >'very little stretch' or do you mean 'no stretch at all'? To clarify that, you probably need to find a pair of antique stockings & check them yourself. I know Mike is near or in Maryland which is why I said I could show him my collection. Tightly knit T-shirt fabric is stretchy. The stockings are not compared to that. They're flexible on the bias, not at all vertically and very slightly horizontally. Silk jersey knits are very stretchy, and silk plain knits (which are more difficult to find) are stretchy. Both will give you a much smoother fit than the originals did. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 09:13:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3EDwOL013363 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:13:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3EDCcC028314; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:13:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3ED9Dr023322; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:13:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA3ED7Dr023311 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:13:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031103141307.55569.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:13:07 GMT Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:13:07 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair/hennin To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <009401c3a1ea$9f080cf0$d9cdadcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have mostly European and Celtic ancestry and I have what is considered a high forhead. I would still have to lose at least an inch of hair to match some of the paintings showing Hennins. I tend to agree that they might have represented an ideal, rather than actuality. > > I have a photo of an effigy that shows a much more > natural hairline and it > looks rather more like I'd expect a woman of > moderation to have. rather than > someone following the extremes of fashion. > > I may have save the whole page so I can direct to > the site maybe if anyone > wants to see... I'm hopeless at remembering things > like this though... > > michaela > http://costumes.glittersweet.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 09:19:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3EJ7OL013398 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:19:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3EIEcC028740; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:18:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3EICDr025704; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:18:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3EI9Dr025690 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:18:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21702 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:42:13 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:42:13 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <007001c3a1f2$d0dfeec0$09e08b90@clarke> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Purple Elephant wrote: > > As Robin pointed out (probably in a conversation rather than on > > here), not everyone was cut out to have that sort of "fashionable" > > hairline. > > > > If your genetics is for low foreheads, then chances are you wouldn't > > have been in the position of wearing one. Someone with a "white > > bread" European ancestry (English or French especially) would have a > > much better chance, for instance, than someone with Eastern European > > or mediterranean ancestry. > Heh, heh, spot on, my ancestors are peasants all the way back :-) I > guess it's like any other style when I look at it and think 'I am so > not suited for that'. I wouldn't have been suited for it x number of > years ago either, but I would still have been trying to wear it > (chances are). Still I have to say I'm rather less inclined to have a > go at those styles I wouldn't look like the appropriate ideal in. Not > only for the sake of my own vanity, but also from a desire to not > misrepresent that period by looking wrong. But I guess that's flawed > logic in that I am not really misrepresenting it, just looking like > someone who is my height/shape/colouring would in that style. But the point here -- which Kat remembers correctly from our conversation about this -- is that in the period, you very likely *wouldn't* have been trying to wear that style at all -- not for class reasons, but for regional ones. In the modern Western world, particularly in the U.S., we're used to seeing a wide combination and variation of facial/body types. But regional "looks" were much more homogeneous in medieval Europe. Think of hair and skin color, for instance -- in some regions, nearly everone is fair, and in other reasons, essentially everyone is dark. Styles of things such as headdress typically developed based on the overwhelmingly prevailing physical type of the area. Kat probably heard me tell a story about headdresses. My own genetic background is thoroughly Russian, with roots in the Middle East. I have large brown eyes and a small triangular face -- low forehead, pointed chin. As luck would have it, my primary area of costume study is Franco-Flemish, where high foreheads, larger faces, and fair coloring is the norm. Those styles will never look right on me, because they weren't designed to look right on me. Then one time I tried on a medieval Russian headdress that had a straight line of dangly bits across the forehead, down to the brow, and shaped side pieces. Everyone looking at me gasped -- it framed my face perfectly and accented my eyes. Of course; I have a Russian face, and the shape of the headdress was designed to flatter that facial type. Because of my coloring and facial shape, I also look good in Greek and in some Italian styles. This has nothing to do with class, but everything to do with gene pool. A woman with a face like mine in medieval Flanders would have been noticeably foreign, even freakish, not just one of many people within the typical range of variation. I've heard the same observation made about other parts/styles of costume. I remember someone once pointing out that a Japanese member of a Highland Dance troupe, although costumed perfectly correctly, was visually jarring when the dancers performed in a line -- not because of his facial differences, but because he had a proportionately long body and short legs, while the European members had proportionately long legs and shorter bodies. (A few years ago, we had a thread about this when some of our European listmates commented that a sequence of pictures of people at some costumed event looked "really American," but they couldn't pinpoint why. Eventually we figured that it was because the grouping of people was so heterogenous, and the combination of many different facial/body types screamed "American" to Europeans who were, still, used to less variation within a group.) That's not to say that there aren't also "ideal" types within the genetic range of an area. Golden hair was more prized than light brown. Fitted dresses look reasonably good on most women, but they achieve a particular ideal shape only on certain figure types -- which were immortalized in zillions of manuscript paintings even though the women with such perfect figures would have been no more common than today's supermodels. But that's not what Kat or I are talking about here. As it happens, most re-enactment groups I know have a general assumption of tolerance -- people are welcome to wear the period/style that pleases them, and everyone around them unconsciously makes allowance for variation in genetic type. But costume people are used to focusing on the *costume,* and they look for specific things (like fit and workmanship and fabric/color choice) and are not bothered by necessary allowances for physical differences. When I lecture to academics who are *not* used to seeing modern people in medieval costume -- but who *are* used to seeing images from the period -- I find that they'll immediately focus on the differences from what they're used to seeing. It's not that they're trying to find fault or to be nitpicky, but that they'll automatically compare the overall visual sense of the model to the overall visual sense of the period and recognize that something's wrong or different. Often they can't put their finger on it, so they'll assume it's something about the costume itself, and it will look to them like someone is play-acting or doing dress-up (like a child in adult clothing or a man in woman's clothing, though not so extreme). This is not a conscious thought process on their part; they're not saying "You did X wrong," just having a reasonable instinctive reaction of "That doesn't look like the pictures somehow; something's wrong." And so it's harder for them to see the connections or take the example seriously. For that reason, I don't normally model my own work for academic audiences; I try to find a model who's close to the genetic type of the culture that would have worn a particular style -- so the visuals will immediately "click" for them, on an instinctive level, as being a live version of what's preserved in artwork. I should also underscore that visual demonstration of period styles has quite a different purpose from re-enactment, where the goal is for the re-enactor to "get inside" the period individual's clothes and experience some aspects of living as period people did. Understanding this difference goes a long way to explaining the gut response of many academic historians who have never done re-enactment when they observe re-enactors on display. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 09:30:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3EUHOL013427 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:30:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3ETbcC029496; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3ETaDr001190; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:29:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3ETXDr001141 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:29:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hA3ETR8O017378 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:29:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031103092147.00b65c78@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 09:29:32 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the Subject of "Documentation" In-Reply-To: <3FA3F350.5647.155D9F15@localhost> References: <18a.21606af9.2cd45474@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi there - I suspect you will receive many replies to this query. So here is one more. ; > Remember - when all is said and done, documentation is like a resume in that everyone has their own way of doing it. And There is NO Single Right Way. That said - there are things that good documentation has in common. - A use of primary resources - Clear easy to follow layout - A list of how your recreation differs from the items that inspired you - The reasons behind the choices you made and if you can - How your choices influence your final product. Good luck to you, and enjoy your research Bridgette > > I'm hoping this is considered "On topic", as it relates to documenting > > a historical costume. I'm creating an Elizabethan gown, and I've > > never really done documentation before. This is for a competition > > where documentation matters, and I have a limited amount of time (the > > competition is CC22 in April, but I'm a college student. Studies come > > first, must be able to feed my addiction later!). I suppose what I'm > > really looking for are tips on documentation- while I was at CC21 I > > went to a lecture, but the notes I took are 400 miles away. The limit > > is 4 typed pages, but I remember the lecturer (whom, I believe, was > > with AlterYears) spoke of appendices- and that we could have as many > > of those as we wanted. So...is anyone willing to share a few tips on > > "good" documentation techniques, in terms of presentation and whatnot? Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 09:41:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3EfeOL013462 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:41:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3EeLcC000372; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:40:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3EeJDr006784; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:40:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA3EeHDr006762 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:40:18 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031103144005.42547.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:40:05 GMT Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:40:05 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031101005907.029526d8@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] since it's Hallow'een/ well better late than never. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We have decorated our front porch for years and sat out front in costume to give away treats. Its a blast watching the little ones react to the decor. I use a combination of black light and red bulbs to create the effect I want without it being too dark. I use a lot of fake white spider webs that reflect the light and that helps. I hope this helps for next year. I also have plastic bones/skeletons that have some some sort of glow in the dark stuff on them. They glow just enough that I use them to outline the walkway. Then you don't need a lot of super-expensive props to do this. > > > Thanks for sharing what you did. I had my first real > Halloween ever in 37 > years (long story), but with minor decorations. > However, I already want to > do more for our front porch next year. > > I know it isn't costuming specifically, but how do > you balance black light > and regular light? My black lights were too dark, so > I had to add in > regular lights just to let people know our home was > open for trick or treating. > > And thanks for that GID polymer clay info. I am > going to have to look for > some of that. > > If you have any photos of tonight's setup, I would > love to see them. > > And to make it costume related, how does one deal > with wearing black > costumes, yet not appear to disappear into the > night? > > And I hope you all had a Happy Halloween, I know I > sure did. > > Kimiko > Basking in the glow of a good Halloween evening. > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and > Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. > Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 09:44:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3EijOL013476 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:44:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3EhwcC000591; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:43:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3EhvDr008507; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:43:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3EhrDr008464 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:43:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.90]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:43:00 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:44:05 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01c3a218$efb112e0$596453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: <<(A few years ago, we had a thread about this when some of our European listmates commented that a sequence of pictures of people at some costumed event looked "really American," but they couldn't pinpoint why. Eventually we figured that it was because the grouping of people was so heterogenous, and the combination of many different facial/body types screamed "American" to Europeans who were, still, used to less variation within a group.)>> I'm reminded of a posting on the BBC America website criticizing the makeover show "What Not To Wear". The criticism (from a US viewer) was that the show's hairstylists gave every woman the same cut and colour. On the surface, this appeared to be true, but if you looked deeper, there was a bigger reason for it. Almost all of the women featured on the show were fair with ruddy skin and light eyes. Most also shared a round face shape. The hair stylists gave them similar cuts and colour because they had similar features and the hairstyle look good on all of them. Two notable exceptions were an Indian woman and a Jamaican woman. These ladies received a completely different treatment from the stylist. It wasn't that the stylists were giving everyone the same haircut. It was that the people on the show were remarkably similar-looking. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 10:04:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3F3xOL014141 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:04:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Ew7cC001420; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:58:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Ew5iu015932; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:58:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA3Ew3iu015904 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 29108 invoked by uid 1005); 3 Nov 2003 14:57:55 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.46452 secs); 03 Nov 2003 14:57:55 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.46452 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2003 14:57:54 -0000 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:57:56 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031103095354.P49675-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bravo, Robin. Great post. And very true--I have a friend of Dutch (Flemish) ancestry, who has a forehead so high that she could plop a hennin on top of it and go, no shaving required. She has a very narrow ribcage, too, and carries her weight in her hips. In fact, I'm trying to get her to dress Burgundian, if only because she would look so eerily perfect in it. Drea On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Robin Netherton wrote: > > But the point here -- which Kat remembers correctly from our conversation > about this -- is that in the period, you very likely *wouldn't* have been > trying to wear that style at all -- not for class reasons, but for > regional ones. In the modern Western world, particularly in the U.S., > we're used to seeing a wide combination and variation of facial/body > types. But regional "looks" were much more homogeneous in medieval Europe. > Think of hair and skin color, for instance -- in some regions, nearly > everone is fair, and in other reasons, essentially everyone is dark. > > Styles of things such as headdress typically developed based on the > overwhelmingly prevailing physical type of the area. Kat probably heard me > tell a story about headdresses. My own genetic background is thoroughly > Russian, with roots in the Middle East. I have large brown eyes and a > small triangular face -- low forehead, pointed chin. As luck would have > it, my primary area of costume study is Franco-Flemish, where high > foreheads, larger faces, and fair coloring is the norm. Those styles will > never look right on me, because they weren't designed to look right on me. > Then one time I tried on a medieval Russian headdress that had a straight > line of dangly bits across the forehead, down to the brow, and shaped side > pieces. Everyone looking at me gasped -- it framed my face perfectly and > accented my eyes. Of course; I have a Russian face, and the shape of the > headdress was designed to flatter that facial type. Because of my coloring > and facial shape, I also look good in Greek and in some Italian styles. > > This has nothing to do with class, but everything to do with gene pool. A > woman with a face like mine in medieval Flanders would have been > noticeably foreign, even freakish, not just one of many people within the > typical range of variation. > > I've heard the same observation made about other parts/styles of costume. > I remember someone once pointing out that a Japanese member of a Highland > Dance troupe, although costumed perfectly correctly, was visually jarring > when the dancers performed in a line -- not because of his facial > differences, but because he had a proportionately long body and short > legs, while the European members had proportionately long legs and shorter > bodies. > > (A few years ago, we had a thread about this when some of our European > listmates commented that a sequence of pictures of people at some costumed > event looked "really American," but they couldn't pinpoint why. Eventually > we figured that it was because the grouping of people was so heterogenous, > and the combination of many different facial/body types screamed > "American" to Europeans who were, still, used to less variation within a > group.) > > That's not to say that there aren't also "ideal" types within the genetic > range of an area. Golden hair was more prized than light brown. Fitted > dresses look reasonably good on most women, but they achieve a particular > ideal shape only on certain figure types -- which were immortalized in > zillions of manuscript paintings even though the women with such perfect > figures would have been no more common than today's supermodels. But > that's not what Kat or I are talking about here. > > As it happens, most re-enactment groups I know have a general assumption > of tolerance -- people are welcome to wear the period/style that pleases > them, and everyone around them unconsciously makes allowance for variation > in genetic type. But costume people are used to focusing on the *costume,* > and they look for specific things (like fit and workmanship and > fabric/color choice) and are not bothered by necessary allowances for > physical differences. When I lecture to academics who are *not* used to > seeing modern people in medieval costume -- but who *are* used to seeing > images from the period -- I find that they'll immediately focus on the > differences from what they're used to seeing. It's not that they're trying > to find fault or to be nitpicky, but that they'll automatically compare > the overall visual sense of the model to the overall visual sense of the > period and recognize that something's wrong or different. Often they can't > put their finger on it, so they'll assume it's something about the costume > itself, and it will look to them like someone is play-acting or doing > dress-up (like a child in adult clothing or a man in woman's clothing, > though not so extreme). This is not a conscious thought process on their > part; they're not saying "You did X wrong," just having a reasonable > instinctive reaction of "That doesn't look like the pictures somehow; > something's wrong." And so it's harder for them to see the connections or > take the example seriously. For that reason, I don't normally model my own > work for academic audiences; I try to find a model who's close to the > genetic type of the culture that would have worn a particular style -- so > the visuals will immediately "click" for them, on an instinctive level, as > being a live version of what's preserved in artwork. > > I should also underscore that visual demonstration of period styles has > quite a different purpose from re-enactment, where the goal is for the > re-enactor to "get inside" the period individual's clothes and experience > some aspects of living as period people did. Understanding this difference > goes a long way to explaining the gut response of many academic historians > who have never done re-enactment when they observe re-enactors on display. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 10:24:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3FOJOL014199 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:24:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3FNccC003027; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:23:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3FNZiu001390; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:23:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop2a.ripco.com (root@pop2a.ripco.com [209.100.227.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3FNWiu001347 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:23:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from ripco.com (cybil2.ripco.com [209.100.224.203]) by pop2a.ripco.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA3FNA3Z011935 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:23:10 -0600 (CST) From: zski@ripco.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 09:23:36 -0600 X-Mailer: CWMail Web to Mail Gateway 2.8c, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <3fa672f3.c68c.0@ripco.com> X-User-Info: 199.250.136.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: hair X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Also, it depends on how you wear your hair. There is a >phenomenon called "traction alopecia" where hair that has been >kept tightly pulled (from pony tails or tight cornrowing) >tends to thin out at the edges. If someone constantly wears ?>their hair *tightly* pulled back from the forehead >(especially if they have heavy hair) they will usually end up >losing hair along the forehead line, so that it can end up ?>looking like it's been plucked. I remember reading that in Japan, women of a certain age who had trained as geisha had a small perfectly round bald patch on the crown of their heads. It was referred to as "the maiko's badge of honor", and was caused by repeated pulling of that part of the hair into a tight pony-tail to form the basis for the elaborate hairstyles of the maiko (literally "dancing child", a term for an apprentice geisha), and was seen as emblematic of the hardship and training she had undergone. Wendy Zdrodowski (see, I'm NOT just into Elizabethan!) Chicago, IL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 11:08:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3G8qOL014382 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:08:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3G7ucC007427; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:07:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3G7oP8005361; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:07:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3G7kP8005295 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:07:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-172.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.172]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3G7iEb021190 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:07:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031103074603.05b70bf0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:51:20 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hose/stockings In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20031102223240.05ad2a50@mail.frys.com> <3FA46CD3.9000701@dandy.net> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <002601c3970b$ad38c880$ba6453d8@Kass> <000e01c39783$9cae89a0$e02da5d1@pavilion> <000601c3979b$bfd77780$6c2da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031028231011.0487d650@mail.frys.com> <3FA46CD3.9000701@dandy.net> <4.3.1.2.20031102223240.05ad2a50@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol Kocian writes, in a message sent 09:08 AM 11/3/03 -0500: >At 10:31 PM -0800 11/2/03, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >>I don't think there were knitted stockings before that gusset. I think >>all the 16th-18th century stockings I have ever seen photos of have that >>gusset, clocks or not. > > I take it you mean only European stockings? Yes. > The coarse socks at the Museum of London do not have gussets, and I > think some of the Middle Eastern are also constructed differently. > >>Point of clarification re. linen and silk stockings: Do you mean 'very >>little stretch' or do you mean 'no stretch at all'? > > To clarify that, you probably need to find a pair of antique > stockings & check them yourself. I know Mike is near or in Maryland > which is why I said I could show him my collection. Too bad I live in California and can't get to see them too. > Tightly knit T-shirt fabric is stretchy. The stockings are not > compared to that. They're flexible on the bias, not at all vertically > and very slightly horizontally. Some stretch - I thought so. I'm perfectly willing to believe not very much stretch, just not no stretch. > Silk jersey knits are very stretchy, and silk plain knits (which are > more difficult to find) are stretchy. Both will give you a much smoother > fit than the originals did. I actually have some silk knit, but it's printed so I'm going to have to make underwear and not stockings out of it. It's not very stretchy, but does have some give parallel to the rows of stitches; more on the bias. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 11:37:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3GbTOL014455 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:37:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3GaRcC010265; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:36:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3GaPP8029252; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:36:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3GaMP8029210 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:36:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hA3GbcA00158.; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:37:38 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:36:16 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:35:48 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com 11/02/03 11:06am >>> wrote: >Plus, as I said, I have a really low forehead (and a >widow's peak to boot). I'd have about 2 inches of >hair showing if I wore a hennin on the line they're >most often depicted. Me, too (not that I wear hennins, but the same applies for other periods). My hair grows low at the front and is extremely thick and heavy too. I suppose it would have depended on personal taste and the amount of time the individual had to spare for personal grooming, whether women with a low hairline would have removed any hair to conform with the fashionable "look". Glenda Jackson apparently shaved her forehead when she played Queen Elizabeth I. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 11:38:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3GcIOL014458 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:38:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3GbbcC010431; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:37:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3GbbP8000273; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:37:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3GbWP9000125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:37:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA3GawPX030427 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:36:58 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:36:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA68480.5070004@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:38:24 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > Of course; I have a Russian face, and the shape of the > headdress was designed to flatter that facial type. Because of my coloring > and facial shape, I also look good in Greek and in some Italian styles. This is really keen. I think it is a different issue than that which I see with a lot of people new to historical styles -- they don't know how to "read" the historical style as attractive in its own right, so they want, say, a good looking victorian dress, but wear nothing over their short, frosted hairdo. Once you've been doing whatever period for a while, your idea of what looks attractive will change. There's also the issue of age-appropriate dress, which is another stumbling block. (Do your lectures touch on this, Robin?) Some medieval outfits are clearly for the young men and women, while their elders dressed more conservatively, but often we ingnore that in re-creations, resulting in the equivalent of senior citizens in Britney Spears outfits. > (A few years ago, we had a thread about this when some of our European > listmates commented that a sequence of pictures of people at some costumed > event looked "really American," but they couldn't pinpoint why. Eventually > we figured that it was because the grouping of people was so heterogenous, > and the combination of many different facial/body types screamed > "American" to Europeans who were, still, used to less variation within a > group.) Could also have been the distance between the people; personal space is one of those things that Americans seem to have a lot more of than other national groups. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Then came the news that margarine’s trans fat may be even worse than butter’s saturated fat, which threw millions of confused consumers back into the butter camp." Butter Camp? Where do I sign up? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 12:55:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3HtOOL014668 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:55:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3HrfcC017770; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:53:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3HrZhD007721; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:53:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3HrUhE007564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:53:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA3HquPX030796 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:52:56 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:52:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA6964E.4040201@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:54:22 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > suppose it would have depended on personal taste and the amount of time > the individual had to spare for personal grooming, whether women with a > low hairline would have removed any hair to conform with the fashionable > "look". Someone has mentioned that some hair might be not painted in because the fashion was for a high forehead (much as I'd like someone painting me to lessen my double chin(s)). In addition to this, if you're blonde, the hair won't show much. And, even if painted in, it might not show in reproductions. This painting http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/1460_lady_weyden.jpg I have seen in person, and she's got blonde hair in a not-desperately-high hairline, but it doesn't show up in the copies I have seen. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Then came the news that margarine’s trans fat may be even worse than butter’s saturated fat, which threw millions of confused consumers back into the butter camp." Butter Camp? Where do I sign up? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 12:55:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3HtqOL014671 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:55:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3HswcC017935; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:54:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3HswhD008970; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:54:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f59.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3HsthD008857 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:54:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:54:50 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.26 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:54:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.26] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:54:49 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2003 17:54:50.0175 (UTC) FILETIME=[93B684F0:01C3A233] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" >....possibly have all the tiny little details right. If they were in period >clothing, I'd expect them to be using only period tools and using those >tools exactly in the period way, in a period setting.... I think I'd prefer >someone dressed plainly in modern clothes. But they will be using only period tools and period techniques. That's the point of the book :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Want to check if your PC is virus-infected? Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 13:03:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3I38OL014704 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:03:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3I2NcC018862; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:02:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3I2Hue015568; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:02:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3I2Cue015507 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:02:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.68.28]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031103180211.GYGX1080.orval.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:02:11 -0500 Message-ID: <008701c3a234$772023e0$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031103141307.55569.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair/hennin Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:54:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I also think hair color makes a bit of difference. My hair is naturally a dark ash color with white blond around my hairline. When I made a henin I was worried about my hair showing around the edges, but when I slicked it all back into a bun and fit the hat onto my head it virtually dissapeared. I expect someone with blonde hair would find the same thing. I do have a painting some where in my computer that has a group of young girls, all fair haired, wearing the hairbands with the loop. On most of them you can see their hairline, but it's not immediately noticable because they are all blonde. Just a thought. :-) Sheridan Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair/hennin > I have mostly European and Celtic ancestry and I have > what is considered a high forhead. I would still have > to lose at least an inch of hair to match some of the > paintings showing Hennins. I tend to agree that they > might have represented an ideal, rather than > actuality. > > > > > > I have a photo of an effigy that shows a much more > > natural hairline and it > > looks rather more like I'd expect a woman of > > moderation to have. rather than > > someone following the extremes of fashion. > > > > I may have save the whole page so I can direct to > > the site maybe if anyone > > wants to see... I'm hopeless at remembering things > > like this though... > > > > michaela > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 13:03:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3I3TOL014707 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:03:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3I2hcC018901; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:02:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3I2fue015904; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:02:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3I2Jue015598 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:02:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.68.28]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031103180217.GYHS1080.orval.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:02:17 -0500 Message-ID: <008801c3a234$7784d920$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031103095354.P49675-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:01:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, so that's what it was! I have always noticed after SCA events how jarring it is to see some people in their modern clothing, their historical clothing suited them so much better. It completely makes sense that clothing developed in specific areas would suit some people more than others. Thanks for helping me put a finger on what was bothering me so! :-) Sheridan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" > Bravo, Robin. Great post. And very true--I have a friend of Dutch > (Flemish) ancestry, who has a forehead so high that she could plop a > hennin on top of it and go, no shaving required. She has a very narrow > ribcage, too, and carries her weight in her hips. In fact, I'm > trying to get her to dress Burgundian, if only because she would look so > eerily perfect in it. > > Drea > > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Robin Netherton wrote: > > > > But the point here -- which Kat remembers correctly from our conversation > > about this -- is that in the period, you very likely *wouldn't* have been > > trying to wear that style at all -- not for class reasons, but for > > regional ones. In the modern Western world, particularly in the U.S., > > we're used to seeing a wide combination and variation of facial/body > > types. But regional "looks" were much more homogeneous in medieval Europe. > > Think of hair and skin color, for instance -- in some regions, nearly > > everone is fair, and in other reasons, essentially everyone is dark. > > > > Styles of things such as headdress typically developed based on the > > overwhelmingly prevailing physical type of the area. Kat probably heard me > > tell a story about headdresses. My own genetic background is thoroughly > > Russian, with roots in the Middle East. I have large brown eyes and a > > small triangular face -- low forehead, pointed chin. As luck would have > > it, my primary area of costume study is Franco-Flemish, where high > > foreheads, larger faces, and fair coloring is the norm. Those styles will > > never look right on me, because they weren't designed to look right on me. > > Then one time I tried on a medieval Russian headdress that had a straight > > line of dangly bits across the forehead, down to the brow, and shaped side > > pieces. Everyone looking at me gasped -- it framed my face perfectly and > > accented my eyes. Of course; I have a Russian face, and the shape of the > > headdress was designed to flatter that facial type. Because of my coloring > > and facial shape, I also look good in Greek and in some Italian styles. > > > > This has nothing to do with class, but everything to do with gene pool. A > > woman with a face like mine in medieval Flanders would have been > > noticeably foreign, even freakish, not just one of many people within the > > typical range of variation. > > > > I've heard the same observation made about other parts/styles of costume. > > I remember someone once pointing out that a Japanese member of a Highland > > Dance troupe, although costumed perfectly correctly, was visually jarring > > when the dancers performed in a line -- not because of his facial > > differences, but because he had a proportionately long body and short > > legs, while the European members had proportionately long legs and shorter > > bodies. > > > > (A few years ago, we had a thread about this when some of our European > > listmates commented that a sequence of pictures of people at some costumed > > event looked "really American," but they couldn't pinpoint why. Eventually > > we figured that it was because the grouping of people was so heterogenous, > > and the combination of many different facial/body types screamed > > "American" to Europeans who were, still, used to less variation within a > > group.) > > > > That's not to say that there aren't also "ideal" types within the genetic > > range of an area. Golden hair was more prized than light brown. Fitted > > dresses look reasonably good on most women, but they achieve a particular > > ideal shape only on certain figure types -- which were immortalized in > > zillions of manuscript paintings even though the women with such perfect > > figures would have been no more common than today's supermodels. But > > that's not what Kat or I are talking about here. > > > > As it happens, most re-enactment groups I know have a general assumption > > of tolerance -- people are welcome to wear the period/style that pleases > > them, and everyone around them unconsciously makes allowance for variation > > in genetic type. But costume people are used to focusing on the *costume,* > > and they look for specific things (like fit and workmanship and > > fabric/color choice) and are not bothered by necessary allowances for > > physical differences. When I lecture to academics who are *not* used to > > seeing modern people in medieval costume -- but who *are* used to seeing > > images from the period -- I find that they'll immediately focus on the > > differences from what they're used to seeing. It's not that they're trying > > to find fault or to be nitpicky, but that they'll automatically compare > > the overall visual sense of the model to the overall visual sense of the > > period and recognize that something's wrong or different. Often they can't > > put their finger on it, so they'll assume it's something about the costume > > itself, and it will look to them like someone is play-acting or doing > > dress-up (like a child in adult clothing or a man in woman's clothing, > > though not so extreme). This is not a conscious thought process on their > > part; they're not saying "You did X wrong," just having a reasonable > > instinctive reaction of "That doesn't look like the pictures somehow; > > something's wrong." And so it's harder for them to see the connections or > > take the example seriously. For that reason, I don't normally model my own > > work for academic audiences; I try to find a model who's close to the > > genetic type of the culture that would have worn a particular style -- so > > the visuals will immediately "click" for them, on an instinctive level, as > > being a live version of what's preserved in artwork. > > > > I should also underscore that visual demonstration of period styles has > > quite a different purpose from re-enactment, where the goal is for the > > re-enactor to "get inside" the period individual's clothes and experience > > some aspects of living as period people did. Understanding this difference > > goes a long way to explaining the gut response of many academic historians > > who have never done re-enactment when they observe re-enactors on display. > > > > --Robin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 13:05:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3I5POL014714 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:05:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3I4gcC019093; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:04:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3I4eue017620; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:04:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3I4cue017597 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:04:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-35-181.jps.net ([209.165.35.181] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AGh4u-00067S-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:57:17 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01c3a223$db52d620$b523a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001001c3a0a6$43dedc40$f239a5d1@pavilion><3FA421BE.2010600@lavoltapress.com> <005101c3a0c0$81abf0c0$f239a5d1@pavilion> <3FA42A38.3050605@lavoltapress.com> Subject: EEBO trial for the H-cost list was Re: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:02:16 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One thing this list might just consider, is asking for a 30 day trail with h-cost list as the association. Proquest does not state any requirements for official association status but assesses each application on its own merits and they may be willing to oblige this request. As the system is set up for institutions and multiple users anyone interested might be able to see what resources there are for costumers. Just a suggestion from someone delighted to have primary references to depend on now. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fran Grimble" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! > I am not sure what you are interested in doing. I was only noting that > the agreement does bind individual users as well as authorized > representatives of the library or other institution. (I can't imagine > the lawyers writing this leaving a big loophole re individual users.) > It also prohibits forming "collections" of EEBO materials and > "distributing" their materials as well as "publishing" them. Anyway, > I'm sure you're reading it all. > > You still might want to contact them to see what they regard as "fair > use," among other things because this agreement seems to be at least > partly according to British law and that differs from American law. > > Fran > > Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > >I am only interested in fair use for research sharing but thanks for your > >suggestion. > > > >Lisa Sinervo > >www.thrednedlestrete.com > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Fran Grimble" > >To: "Historical Costume" > >Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:12 PM > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! > > > > > > > > > >>ProQuest's agreement is readily available on the home page of their > >>website. Here is a link to it: > >> > >>http://wwwlib.umi.com/eebo/terms > >> > >>If you have any further questions, I'd suggest contacting ProQuest. I am > >>sure they can explain how their agreement applies to you. And give you > >>any permissionsthey wish to give that are legally necessary. There is > >>no need to remain in the dark about what another party's rights are, or > >>what they would give you permision to do, when you can easily ask them. > >> > >>Fran > >> > >>Lisa Sinervo wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>I had a proquest trial through a living history society I'm associated > >>> > >>> > >with. > > > > > >>>I suspect the first person who logs on to the proquest trial has an > >>>agreement they must adhere to which said books were not to be republished > >>>and were for research only or something similar. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>What I attempted to say when I first started this thread, was that I did > >>>have access to the EEBO and downloaded quite a number of books that might > >>> > >>> > >be > > > > > >>>of interest to those on this list and while the licensing agreement > >>>prohibits me from republishing them, so they won't be appearing on my > >>>website, if any of you folks are researching something and are looking > >>> > >>> > >for a > > > > > >>>reference, please do contact me as I now have around 1400 books from the > >>>16th and 17th centuries and may be able to assist you. > >>> > >>>Cheers, > >>> > >>>Lisa Sinervo > >>>www.thrednedlestrete.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "Wanda Pease" > >>>To: "Historical Costume" > >>>Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 9:54 AM > >>>Subject: [h-cost] Ms. Penelope Chalk, benefactress to the world! > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Lisa, I don't know how I managed to miss this message in the continuing > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>saga > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>of Ms. Penelope Chalk, entrepreneur extraordinaire! I must admit that I > >>>>doubt that she would even make her investment back in CD's since there > >>>>aren't many of us out there willing to pay money for "dusty old history" > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>but > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>it's a great thought. > >>>> > >>>>I just found out that one of my local University Libraries just got an > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>EEBO > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>subscription. Can't access from home though. > >>>> > >>>>Were you asked to sign a copyright agreement? I wasn't. > >>>> > >>>>Regina/Wanda > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>h-costume mailing list > >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > >>http://www.lavoltapress.com > >>Historic and Vintage Dance > >>http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>h-costume mailing list > >>h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > -- > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 13:09:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3I9EOL014720 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:09:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3I8LcC019465; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:08:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3I8Iue020935; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:08:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3I8Eue020851 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:08:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip79.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.79]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 635EE6A50C for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:02:33 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:08:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair Message-ID: <3FA6290C.26498.1DFF869E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <007001c3a1f2$d0dfeec0$09e08b90@clarke> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Heh, heh, spot on, my ancestors are peasants all the way back :-) I > guess it's like any other style when I look at it and think 'I am so > not suited for that'. This really has nothing to do with class or if you can wear it for fun. It has to do with some genetic makeups not conforming to the ideals of the period. You won't look like a Burgundian lady in a hennin if your genetic makeup gives you different facial features than someone from that place would have had. (Perhaps this is why some areas "produced" certain types of styles and others didn't. Seems to me that Robin and I were talking about that when we started comparing hairlines as I helped her get dressed. [Finally remembered where I had had the discussion.]) > I wouldn't have been suited for it x number of > years ago either, but I would still have been trying to wear it > (chances are). Still I have to say I'm rather less inclined to have a > go at those styles I wouldn't look like the appropriate ideal in. Not > only for the sake of my own vanity, but also from a desire to not > misrepresent that period by looking wrong. But I guess that's flawed > logic in that I am not really misrepresenting it, just looking like > someone who is my height/shape/colouring would in that style. Am I > going round in circles yet? Makes sense. However, if you are just wearing it for the fun of it, I see nothing wrong with it, even if you can't conform yourself into their ideal image. Regarding traction alopecia: > A sort of 'which came first, the baldness or the hennin?' I don't think we'll ever know for sure how it started. However, I suspect that one of the reasons for the changes to a more and more extreme look is that form followed function. > Maybe one could train oneself into a hennin style by wearing tight > pigtails mundanely. If you have the sort of hair that cooperates with > that sort of thing anyway. It depends on your genetics. Not everyone who has their hair pulled back ("in traction") gets traction alopecia. From what I've noticed, people who start out with low foreheads end up with it less than those who start out with higher foreheads to begin with. >And, as I said before, if you don't mind > showing up in a modern context with odd hair. I guess a modern > hairline in a hennin might be one of those anachronisms we might just > have to put up with (in ourselves as well as in others). Exactly. It all depends on context. Frankly, if I were doing something like this to exactly reproduce a piece (for a "living history documentary" or something of that sort), I'd choose people who looked like they would have existed in that time/place if at all possible. I'd match those who looked like they belonged in a different time/place to those pieces. However, if I'm doing it because I want to feel what it's like to wear this sort of thing (a "learn by doing" situation), it doesn't matter how the person looked originally I'd still put anyone in that piece. And I'm not going to cavil at someone who "ought" to be wearing, for example, Samurai clothing who chooses to wear Western European clothing if both are allowed by the venue. >From all > this rambling you may or may not have worked out that this is one of > those historical styles that I think is rather lovely and elegant, but > have so far avoided doing because I would just look wrong in it. Nothing wrong with that. I feel that way about German. I like reading about it. I like seeing other people doing it (and will help them as much as I can to do so if that's what they wish, although I often refer them to someone else such as Kat Barich). However, I'm not going to do one myself. I'd be much better off in a Burgundian with a hennin! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 13:21:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3ILPOL014758 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:21:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IK7cC020692; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:20:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IK3ue001482; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IJwue001395 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:19:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip79.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.79]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7FB702ED for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:19:55 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:19:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] On the Subject of "Documentation" (long) Message-ID: <3FA62BCC.20817.1E0A44BD@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FA54BD1.6F5AC591@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO regarding the importance of "assume the judges know nothing": > If she hadn't told me, > specifically, why she'd hemmed her gown the way she had, I would have > said "oh, sloppy job", and marked her down, all from *my* ignorance. > --sue, always willing to learn more Exactly. A judge who isn't given appropriate documentation for a technique has to go by what they already know. They don't have any other reference points if you don't give it to them. But you do have to make sure that you are using a good source. "Aunt Mary's Sewing Book" written in 1969 isn't going to convince any judge who's looking at a 1580 English gown. (The caveat to that, however, is that a judge with a closed mind won't listen no matter how good your sources. But that's the random factor Arlys spoke of. You don't have any control over it but have to accept it and move on. Don't let it stop you from doing what is appropriate for good judges.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 13:31:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3IVlOL014786 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:31:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IUccC021963; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:30:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IUaue012181; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:30:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IUYue012152 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:30:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip79.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.79]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 813D36A6DC for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:24:54 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:30:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Message-ID: <3FA62E49.13135.1E13FDE0@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FA68480.5070004@thibault.org> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > There's also the issue of age-appropriate dress, which is another > stumbling block. (Do your lectures touch on this, Robin?) Some > medieval outfits are clearly for the young men and women, while their > elders dressed more conservatively, but often we ingnore that in > re-creations, resulting in the equivalent of senior citizens in > Britney Spears outfits. >From what I've read, this is something that an idea as old as dirt: "Mutton dressed up as Lamb" as one phrase puts it. > Could also have been the distance between the people; personal space > is one of those things that Americans seem to have a lot more of than > other national groups. Amen to that. As it has gotten more difficult for me to hear I've had "self-wars" between my need for personal space and my wish to hear what is being said. I give up when it's someone I'm not completely comfortable being close to, whereas I'll pull up closer to someone I know better. (And even then, I tend to turn my head so that my ear is closer but the rest of me is not.) Some national groups want to be practically nose to nose with you, while others want even more distance than an American would want. Even within the US there are marked regional differences in this. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 13:32:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3IWNOL014791 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:32:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IVXcC022046; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:31:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IVSue013017; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:31:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IVOue012936 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:31:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hA3IVN8O002229 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:31:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031103132417.01905d50@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:31:27 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] question ? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey folks... weird question... Has anyone ever had a judge not read their documentation? Or not in depth? It's happened to me a couple of times - where I have received commentary or questions on a facet of a garment - When actually the explaination or proof for the detail was included in the documentation. I think it is mainly a factor of insufficient time allowed to the judges. Insights? Ideas? Please tell me I'm not the only one ; > Bridgette Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 13:37:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3IbEOL014796 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:37:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IaEcC022577; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:36:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Ia9ue017586; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:36:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA3IZeue017054 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:35:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 33707 invoked by uid 1005); 3 Nov 2003 18:35:29 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.202017 secs); 03 Nov 2003 18:35:29 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.202017 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2003 18:35:29 -0000 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:35:34 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Delurking with fabric question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031103124020.K49675-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Why only reed boning? I know whalebone is not available anymore, but I also > know reeds were not the only alternative. Actually, in all my research & investigation of 16th century inventories, accounts, and writings, I have only ever heard five materials mentioned when it comes to stiffening corsets & bodies: buckeram, bent, whalebone, iron and horn. Horn was mentioned as a busk, rather than a boning material. The mention of iron bodies is an open ended debate; I've seen one quote mentioning it, and a couple of iron "corsets" which could be anything from true corsets to orthopaedic devices, to dress forms, to theatrical apparrel, to shop signs, for all we know. Buckram would be used as a construction material or interlining to help stiffen the garment, rather than as a separate boning material. Extra layers of canvas were also used for stiffening, and ostensibly padded & quilted bodices (padded with horsehair, wool batting or cotton batting) would be another way to stiffen bodices for support. Which leaves the well-known whalebone, and bent, which was a small reed grass of the agrostis family. In tailors' bills and wardrobe accounts of the 16th century, bent is far and away the most common material used to stiffen bodices, farthingale sleeves, stomachers, farthingales, etc. It is replaced to some extent by whalebone in written references of the 1580s and later, but the two extant 17th century stomachers we have, both of which were cut down from corsets, used bundles of bent for stiffening. Each reed was 1 to 1.5 mm in diameter. I have seen reproduction corsets stiffened with rope, used for Italian & German gowns that have a rounder silhouette. Rope corsets are very comfortable and give a lovely soft line that doesn't wrinkle under the bust, but I have never seen a reference to rope used for stiffening corsets, as much as I've wished to find one. So, unless you're willing to substitute artificial whalebone for the real thing, bent is the most authentic and documented fabric you're going to find. > > The fabric used for corsets/underpinnings was linen or a linen/cotton > called Fustian. Correct? Fustian (cotton/linen twill) and canvas were both used as interlinings and lining for corsets. sarcanet (a light silk) was sometimes mentioned as an inner lining, and satin & taffeta were commonly used to cover corsets by those who could afford it. Good luck with your project, Drea ("I Brake for Boning") Leed _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 13:37:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3IbeOL014800 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:37:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IalcC022620; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:36:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Iakue018105; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:36:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [63.251.216.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IaIue017703 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:36:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from megan2 (pcp06940299pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.19.18]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A277D15D1B for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:36:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:39:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3FA62E49.13135.1E13FDE0@localhost> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO following this thread, I was wondering what a good way to tell what styles/centuries one might look the best in, since I haven't develped the "eye" to see this yet? I've been gravitating towards Scandinavian, since my major event is Pennsic and I need camp clothing, but for my "better" wear I'd like to look really good. What physical characteristics go with which areas/times? -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 13:42:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3IgJOL014828 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:42:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IeqcC023265; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:40:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Iepue021896; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:40:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Iekue021797 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:40:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip79.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.79]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA7436AA19 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:35:06 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:40:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] question ? Message-ID: <3FA630AE.28909.1E1D556A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.2.20031103132417.01905d50@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Has anyone ever had a judge not read their documentation? Or > not > in depth? As a costume contest judge I can tell you that it's impossible in the time given to completely read someone's documentation *unless* they have it organized properly. All of the competitions I've judged have the person telling us about their costume and we only moments *while they are talking* to read the docs. I've talked to judges where all they have is the outfit on a dummy in front of them (rather than on a human even) without any explanations from the person who made it, and they have to completely look over the garments and read the docs in less than 15 minutes. It's one of the reasons why everyone who has given suggestions so far has made it a point to tell you to be organized and readable. Often times presenters have book sized docs with the important information buried in flowery text. That's why it's so important to be succinct but have footnotes directing them to the full explanation in the appendix. They really only have time to read the "synopsis" and will only go for the "fine points" in the appendix if they a) have time or b) feel that the point is questionable and need to see why they think a certain way. So, I'm sure that you aren't the only one who's had a judge not read the documentation in depth. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 13:58:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3Iw7OL014874 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:58:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Iv6cC025108; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Iv3Of006398; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA3IuxOf006293 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:56:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 31266 invoked by uid 1005); 3 Nov 2003 18:56:51 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.1659 secs); 03 Nov 2003 18:56:51 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.1659 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2003 18:56:50 -0000 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:56:55 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Delurking with fabric question In-Reply-To: <20031103124020.K49675-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-ID: <20031103135622.N49675-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > So, unless you're willing to substitute artificial whalebone for the real > thing, bent is the most authentic and documented fabric you're going to > find. Doh...that would be "most authentic & documented boning material." Coffee time, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 13:58:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3IwYOL014879 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:58:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IvecC025161; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:57:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3IvdOf006911; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:57:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40911.mail.yahoo.com (web40911.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA3IvbOf006821 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:57:37 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031103185732.36279.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.167.44.153] by web40911.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:57:32 PST Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:57:32 -0800 (PST) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311031754.hA3HsIhF008385@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: On the Subject of Documentation X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bridgette wrote: > That said - there are things that good documentation > has in common. > - A use of primary resources This is a pet topic of mine, if you don't mind indulging me for a moment. The definition of "primary resource" as used for this discussion could probably stand to be clarified. Cynthia Virtue is on this list, and I hope she won't mind when I recommend her essay on the kinds of sources clothing enthusiasts use and how to define them as primary, secondary, tertiary, and much more importantly, as "good" and "bad" sources. http://www.virtue.to/articles/sources.html The upshot is that unless you yourself have examined an article of clothing in person, it's not really a primary source for your purposes. Photos of such things, and writings about such things, are secondary sources -- excellent sources, nonetheless. There is no shame in having all secondary sources on your Works Cited list. It's darn near impossible to be fortunate enough to list a real primary source. Another confusion on the subject is that of paintings. Perhaps you have, in person, examined a painting which depicts clothing in great detail. That painting is a primary source for the subject of painting, but not for clothing. It's probably an excellent secondary source for clothing, but in the end, the clothing itself is being filtered through another medium -- the artist's mind and hand. I think it's important to correctly identify the type of sources you use and to know whether it is a source with integrity or with questionable integrity. I have noticed that folks (probably inadvertently) rename secondary sources as "primary", and it really is misleading. I sense it is done out of some sense that having secondary sources isn't really respectable in documentation. It's almost impossible, though, for something to be a true primary source by its clearest definition, for clothing research -- unless you have seen/handled the original garment yourself. -Tasha ===== ***Updated as of November 1, 2003: Aumônière-mania!*** http://www.cottesimple.com An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 13:58:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3IwrOL014883 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:58:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Iw5cC025218; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:58:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Iw4Of007289; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:58:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Iw1Of007188 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2634A36AD2 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:57:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AGjtl-0007V1-00 for ; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:57:57 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) In-Reply-To: References: <3FA62E49.13135.1E13FDE0@localhost> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:57:57 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Megan asked: > following this thread, I was wondering what a good way to tell what > styles/centuries one might look the best in, since I haven't develped the > "eye" to see this yet? I've been gravitating towards Scandinavian, since my > major event is Pennsic and I need camp clothing, but for my "better" wear > I'd like to look really good. What physical characteristics go with which > areas/times? It would be really hard for us to explain the looks for every possible period... so why don't we narrow it down by getting you to tell us what you look like - height, weight, hair colour and curliness, skin colour, eye colour, body shape (hourglass, pear, etc), facial shape (round, elfin, etc), and so on. If you know where your ancestors came from, mention that too. Then we can see if we can think of anything that matches. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 14:06:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3J6DOL014924 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:06:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3J5McC026131; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:05:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3J5HOf013582; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:05:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA3J5EOf013511 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:05:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 62783 invoked by uid 1005); 3 Nov 2003 19:05:04 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.076672 secs); 03 Nov 2003 19:05:04 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.076672 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2003 19:05:03 -0000 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:05:09 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031103135727.G49675-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One way to figure this out is to try on a variety of headwear, and see which ones make you look most "like a picture." I know some people who have found "doubles" in portraits, tapestries and other period artwork. I've seen a couple myself--it's positively eerie. A more roundabout way to achieve a period look is to choose a style that the person looks good in, i.e., a style which emphasizes their better features and hides their less flattering ones. When someone is in clothing that fits and flatters them they tend to be more comfortable and move more naturally in it, which enhances the authentic effect and makes it seem more clothing than costume. Drea On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Megan M. wrote: > following this thread, I was wondering what a good way to tell what > styles/centuries one might look the best in, since I haven't develped the > "eye" to see this yet? I've been gravitating towards Scandinavian, since my > major event is Pennsic and I need camp clothing, but for my "better" wear > I'd like to look really good. What physical characteristics go with which > areas/times? > -Megan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 14:07:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3J7BOL014930 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:07:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3J6ScC026241; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:06:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3J6ROf014609; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:06:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA3J6OOf014566 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:06:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 67706 invoked by uid 1005); 3 Nov 2003 19:06:14 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 2.19284 secs); 03 Nov 2003 19:06:14 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 2.19284 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2003 19:06:11 -0000 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:06:15 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) In-Reply-To: <3FA62E49.13135.1E13FDE0@localhost> Message-ID: <20031103140543.X49675-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wonder, has any research been done on the nature and area of medieval and renaissance personal space? Drea On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > There's also the issue of age-appropriate dress, which is another > > stumbling block. (Do your lectures touch on this, Robin?) Some > > medieval outfits are clearly for the young men and women, while their > > elders dressed more conservatively, but often we ingnore that in > > re-creations, resulting in the equivalent of senior citizens in > > Britney Spears outfits. > > >From what I've read, this is something that an idea as old as dirt: > "Mutton dressed up as Lamb" as one phrase puts it. > > > Could also have been the distance between the people; personal space > > is one of those things that Americans seem to have a lot more of than > > other national groups. > > Amen to that. As it has gotten more difficult for me to hear I've had > "self-wars" between my need for personal space and my wish to hear > what is being said. I give up when it's someone I'm not completely > comfortable being close to, whereas I'll pull up closer to someone I > know better. (And even then, I tend to turn my head so that my ear is > closer but the rest of me is not.) > > Some national groups want to be practically nose to nose with you, > while others want even more distance than an American would want. > Even within the US there are marked regional differences in this. > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 14:13:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3JDFOL014950 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:13:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JCScC027509; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:12:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JCLOf020203; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:12:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JCFOg020038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:12:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA3JBePX031645 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:11:40 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:11:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA6A8C3.3000507@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:13:07 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Megan M. wrote: > following this thread, I was wondering what a good way to tell what > styles/centuries one might look the best in, since I haven't develped the > "eye" to see this yet? This is fairly easy. Look for pictures that look like you! Only you can do this. Or maybe you can con your sibling or sweetie into helping thumb through art books. cv -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Then came the news that margarine’s trans fat may be even worse than butter’s saturated fat, which threw millions of confused consumers back into the butter camp." Butter Camp? Where do I sign up? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 14:18:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3JIjOL014962 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:18:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JHIcC028096; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:17:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JHHOf024574; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:17:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JHCOf024446 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:17:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7144E1B27A1 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:15:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 25015-03 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:15:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B1D841B27BA for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:15:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <04f801c3a23f$13f07170$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FA62E49.13135.1E13FDE0@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:17:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) > > It would be really hard for us to explain the looks for every possible > period... so why don't we narrow it down by getting you to tell us what > you look like - height, weight, hair colour and curliness, skin colour, > eye colour, body shape (hourglass, pear, etc), facial shape (round, > elfin, etc), and so on. If you know where your ancestors came from, > mention that too. Then we can see if we can think of anything that > matches. > > K. What a fun idea! Can I play? I'm 5'0, about 140 pounds, hourglass shape. Long, straight dark hair (very fine and slippery but fairly thick), round face, dark eyes, olive skin. Ancestry is English/Welsh/Norwegian. I love Tudor, and I know how to walk in a farthingale! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 14:33:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3JXAOL015037 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:33:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JWEcC029835; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:32:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JWCOf007692; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:32:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from az-awindo1-spam.awin.com (mail.awin.com [65.218.228.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JW5Og007502 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:32:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from awmail.awin.com (unverified [10.200.20.27]) by az-awindo1-spam.awin.com for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:35:25 -0700 Received: from INET-MTA by awmail.awin.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:31:58 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.3 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:31:55 -0700 From: "Tori Ruhl" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hA3JW5Og007502 Subject: [h-cost] Black Diamonds X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, It's amazing how far behind you can get in a weekend! On the subject of Diamonds, I'm not very well versed in gemology or their exact cuts and usages. I know that the Ruby was valued more than any other stone of the period (Hackenbrock) Cutting techniques in Italy were of a better and more detailed quality than those of anywhere else in Europe (Due to the Indian influence). They still, however, weren't cut like today's, and the settings were foiled in the back to help reflect some of the light. Another thing to remember that they were also using glass paste to create "gems". There's a great example of one in one of the books I've been reading, but I don't have my sources at work. I'm really not as knowledgeable on the topic as I would like to be, but I've been doing lots of research lately. Now if I could find some sources for handknotting pearls and when that became fashionable, I'll be happy. Tori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 14:36:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3JaJOL015055 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:36:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JZScC000400; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:35:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JZROf010372; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:35:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [63.251.216.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JZNOf010321 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:35:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from megan2 (pcp06940299pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.19.18]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7C7615CD6 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:35:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:38:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO K replied: so why don't we narrow it down by getting you to tell us what you look like - height, weight, hair colour and curliness, skin colour, eye colour, body shape (hourglass, pear, etc), facial shape (round, elfin, etc), and so on. If you know where your ancestors came from, mention that too. Then we can see if we can think of anything that matches. Here is a picture taken of me and my stepdaughter last December before I cut my hair off: http://benchite.com/megan/benchite%20website/2002_1226_MeganEmily.jpg I am: blonde hair, fairly straight (used to be light, straight, wispy, but as I got older it got more body and a bit of wave at the bottom). Face: oval with high cheekbones, fair complexion to slightly ruddy (I usually use the lightest shade of foundation available in any given line, or close to it). Blue eyes. Wide, square shoulders, tend to muscular arms, large busted, short waisted (back waist lenght about 15.5 inches on a 5'6" person), long legged. Little differentiation between bust, waist, hips (thick waisted). I carry my weight in the trunk, not hips/thighs, although my waist is smaller than the bust and hips. My ancestors are predominantly Polish/Prussian/Luthuanian on my mother's side, and my father is half Czechoslovakian and half Scotch-Irish. Or, as I like to say, enough Irish to get the name, and the rest is most of eastern Europe. Oh yeah, I'm 40, so I don't need the Britney Spears version of anything. I usually wear about a size 18 these days, US version. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 14:56:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3JurOL015143 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:56:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JtrcC002891; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:55:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3JtmWX028968; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:55:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA3JthWX028888 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:55:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 99090 invoked by uid 1005); 3 Nov 2003 19:55:32 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.073718 secs); 03 Nov 2003 19:55:32 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.073718 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2003 19:55:32 -0000 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:55:37 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031103144809.O49675-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think early 16th c. German would suit you to a tee--your face is spot on. several styles were rather short-waisted and wide necked, and would accentuate your bust and show off your wide shoulders. Since you're not over-busty, the style would be easy to fit and would give you a look just like that in the pictures. The full skirts would create a larger waist-hip differential and make your waist look a bit smaller, as well. I can just see you in a tall German haube & kerchief! You would also look smashing in Flemish peasant & german (Brueghel) peasant dress. If you wanted to go earlier period, Viking dress would suit your face and form as well--since you're mostly vertical and have broad shoulders, the tunics and chitons would drape very gracefully. You'd also have a chance to show of your lovely blond hair. Drea On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Megan M. wrote: > K replied: > > so why don't we narrow it down by getting you to tell us what > you look like - height, weight, hair colour and curliness, skin colour, > eye colour, body shape (hourglass, pear, etc), facial shape (round, > elfin, etc), and so on. If you know where your ancestors came from, > mention that too. Then we can see if we can think of anything that > matches. > > Here is a picture taken of me and my stepdaughter last December before I cut > my hair off: > http://benchite.com/megan/benchite%20website/2002_1226_MeganEmily.jpg > > I am: blonde hair, fairly straight (used to be light, straight, wispy, but > as I got older it got more body and a bit of wave at the bottom). Face: > oval with high cheekbones, fair complexion to slightly ruddy (I usually use > the lightest shade of foundation available in any given line, or close to > it). Blue eyes. Wide, square shoulders, tend to muscular arms, large > busted, short waisted (back waist lenght about 15.5 inches on a 5'6" > person), long legged. Little differentiation between bust, waist, hips > (thick waisted). I carry my weight in the trunk, not hips/thighs, although > my waist is smaller than the bust and hips. My ancestors are predominantly > Polish/Prussian/Luthuanian on my mother's side, and my father is half > Czechoslovakian and half Scotch-Irish. Or, as I like to say, enough Irish to > get the name, and the rest is most of eastern Europe. Oh yeah, I'm 40, so I > don't need the Britney Spears version of anything. I usually wear about a > size 18 these days, US version. > -Megan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 15:16:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3KGYOL015239 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:16:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KFYcC005508; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:15:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KFVWX017898; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:15:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KFTWX017783 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:15:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63832425CE for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:20:17 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FA6B7F5.5050409@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:17:57 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair References: <3FA6964E.4040201@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <3FA6964E.4040201@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > In addition to this, if you're blonde, the > hair won't show much. And, even if painted in, it might not show in > reproductions. This painting > http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/1460_lady_weyden.jpg > > I have seen in person, and she's got blonde hair in a > not-desperately-high hairline, but it doesn't show up in the copies I > have seen. I think this is one of the images I was looking at while wondering if the hair really was plucked. Her hairline is about the same as mine. Maybe I just have a naturally high forehead and shouldn't use myself as a comparison model. :) The difference I notice is that she has no hair on her temples, right in front of the ear. Or maybe it is so fine and the reproduction poor enough that it doesn't show. I have a huge amount of hair there, and to see someone without it just looks odd -- to me. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 15:26:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3KQeOL015507 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:26:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KPocC007788; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:25:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KPmWX028252; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:25:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop2a.ripco.com (root@pop2a.ripco.com [209.100.227.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KPhWX028148 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:25:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from ripco.com (cybil2.ripco.com [209.100.224.203]) by pop2a.ripco.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA3KPK3Z020531 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:25:20 -0600 (CST) From: zski@ripco.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:25:42 -0600 X-Mailer: CWMail Web to Mail Gateway 2.8c, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <3fa6b9c6.cf66.0@ripco.com> X-User-Info: 199.250.136.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Body types and costuming X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a hobby of mine - I look at people and try to think about what period I would like to see them in - that they would look good in. Not just historicals, but characters too. I have a tall thin male friend who has very "nervous hands" - always in motion and slightly twitchy. I would LOVE to see him dress as Dr. Henry Jeckyll. And I know another slender woman who is always complaining about her lack of cleavage but she has fabulous legs. Hello 1920s Flapper outfits - she even looks good in hats! My well-padded broad-shouldered frame, short but extremely long-waisted, looks well in Elizabethan where the farthingale can balance out my broad upper body. However, it's a complete loss in most Victorian - that lovely sloping shoulder line doesn't happen on me. And anything with ruffles makes me look like a parade float! Just look at yourself, decide what parts you want to show off, and find an era/area where that was considered fashionable. Wendy Zdrodowski Chicago, IL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 15:26:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3KQpOL015521 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:26:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KPScC007645; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:25:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KPLWX027712; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:25:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f65.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KPIWX027560 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:25:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:25:12 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.64 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:25:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.64] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:25:12 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2003 20:25:12.0958 (UTC) FILETIME=[95B5F1E0:01C3A248] Subject: [h-cost] Re: hair X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Cynthia Virtue >Could also have been the distance between the people; personal space is >one of those things that Americans seem to have a lot more of than other >national groups. Don't forget posture. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Send instant messages to anyone on your contact list with MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 15:32:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3KW5OL015771 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:32:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KVEcC009464; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:31:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KV8WX004172; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:31:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f53.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.53]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KUxWX003877 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:31:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:30:52 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.64 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:30:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.64] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:30:52 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2003 20:30:52.0479 (UTC) FILETIME=[6014BCF0:01C3A249] Subject: [h-cost] Re:Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Kirrily Robert >It would be really hard for us to explain the looks for every possible >period... so why don't we narrow it down by getting you to tell us what >you look like - height, weight, hair colour and curliness, skin colour, >eye colour, body shape (hourglass, pear, etc), facial shape (round, >elfin, etc), and so on. If you know where your ancestors came from, >mention that too. Then we can see if we can think of anything that >matches. My ancestors are Scots and Swedes, and I'm built like a barrel - even discounting the tubbiness :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Send instant messages to anyone on your contact list with MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 15:42:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3KgQOL015935 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:42:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KfacC010773; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:41:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KfUWX013263; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:41:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KfPWY013102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:41:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA3KeoPX032074 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:40:50 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:40:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA6BDAA.4010106@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:42:18 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hair/americans References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc Carlson wrote: >> Could also have been the distance between the people; personal space is >> one of those things that Americans seem to have a lot more of than other >> national groups. > Don't forget posture. Oh, yeah, and all those "body language" things. I recently saw on a travel show, a 20s something american guy interviewing a group of guys the same age in India. They were shoulder-to-shoulder, arms around each other, leaning on each other. It was so different! And yet they said they'd never touch a girl unless they were married to her, and then, not in public. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Then came the news that margarine’s trans fat may be even worse than butter’s saturated fat, which threw millions of confused consumers back into the butter camp." Butter Camp? Where do I sign up? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 15:46:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3KkqOL015942 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:46:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KjrcC011186; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:45:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KjqWX017020; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:45:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3KjmWX016955 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:45:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.160]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:44:59 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] question ? Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:46:06 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c3a24b$8227d000$a06453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031103132417.01905d50@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mari wrote: <> I've had this problem many times. As others have mentioned, it's impossible for someone under the time constraints to read your documentation as well as it needs to be. My solution is to write a one-paragraph abstract or summary on the first page. This paragraph used the least amount of words to describe the entry in a moment's glace. For example: "The Carnamoyle stockings are an extant pair of knitted wool stockings from County Donegal that are roughly contemporary with the Shinrone gown, of which I have made a replica. I handspun worsted yarn in a clockwise direction (Z-twist) on a wooden drop spindle and knit the stockings in the round on five #3 wooden needles." The rest of the documentation went into the history if knitted stockings in Ireland, how I solved the problem of gauge, and what heel treatment I chose and why (the stockings are fragmentary from the ankles down). But someone who only had time to read this blurb knew everything they needed to know. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 15:50:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3Ko0OL015962 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:50:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Kn9cC011836; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Kn8WX020275; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:49:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Kn5WX020231 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:49:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AGldJ-0001tK-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:49:05 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:34:44 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair/hennin References: <00c701c3a060$bebd7de0$b9718690@clarke> <003401c3a0ac$fa428b70$0200a8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <3FA585F9.5050503@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <3FA585F9.5050503@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote >Jean Waddie wrote: >> How is her hennin constructed? I've heard a lot of theories, but I >>didn't think there was enough evidence to confirm any of them. How >>does it stay on? > >I have a truncated-cone/butterfly style which has a basketwork core >structure. It's springy yet holds its shape. I managed to wear away >some of my hair wearing it one afternoon. I have since corrected the >problems that lead to the, er, friction allopecia, and it stays on by a >more gentle friction on my head, plus a steel hatpin through a tight bun. > >At present, I believe the state-of-the-art theories are all conjecture. >I'd love to hear otherwise! > Yippee! You're the first person I've met using a hatpin and a bun, which has always been my favourite theory. When I left my last job, one of my colleagues made me a big cardboard hennin - they presented it to me upside-down, filled with chocolates! - and for a dare I wore it all one day at work. I put my hair in a coronet of braids and used plenty kirby-grips, and it stayed pretty well, but I wouldn't have fancied it with just straight pins. And it wouldn't support the weight of a floor-length veil, even in a very sheer polyester. -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 16:44:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3Li1OL016134 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:44:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Lh8cC019734; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:43:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3LgwdE009945; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:42:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3LgrdE009874 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:42:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24900 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:06:58 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:06:58 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031103185732.36279.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Tasha McGann wrote: > The upshot is that unless you yourself have examined an article of > clothing in person, it's not really a primary source for your > purposes. Photos of such things, and writings about such things, are > secondary sources -- excellent sources, nonetheless. There is no shame > in having all secondary sources on your Works Cited list. It's darn > near impossible to be fortunate enough to list a real primary source. > > Another confusion on the subject is that of paintings. Perhaps you > have, in person, examined a painting which depicts clothing in great > detail. That painting is a primary source for the subject of painting, > but not for clothing. It's probably an excellent secondary source for > clothing, but in the end, the clothing itself is being filtered > through another medium -- the artist's mind and hand. Someone asked me about this distinction at KWCS a few weeks ago, and what I told her was this: I have heard this particular sort of distinction between primary and secondary and tertiary ONLY from re-enactors (particularly SCA people). I have never heard it used in this way by academic historians. And I suspect that if you said to a professional historian that a painting from the 15th century is *not* a primary source for dress of the 15th century, you would get a look of stark amazement, because your listener would conclude you have no idea what the terms mean. And that would go double if you said that when you're working from a photo of the painting, that makes it a tertiary source. I just looked over Cynthia's article, which includes this helpful link to some historians' definitions of primary sources: http://www.library.yale.edu/ref/err/primdefs.htm What's important to see from these definitions is that the distinction between "primary" and "secondary" is *not* the degree of separation from the object of study, but rather the degree of separation from personal experience of the thing under study. An artist in 15th century Flanders has seen (and worn!) clothing of his own place and period, and his paintings are a primary source for a modern scholar's work in dress history of that period/place, as far as historians are concerned. The fact that the image is filtered through the artist's mind and hand does not change the primary-ness of the source, though it does add an interpretive layer that we need to take into account as we analyze and apply the source. On the other hand, a chronicler of the 15th century is a primary source for events of his own time, but if he recounts a battle of the 12th century based on a selection of other chronicles he's read about it, that's a secondary source -- just as if a modern author writes about the same battle based on earlier reports. There's no question that degree of removal in personal experience, even for someone of the same period, changes the *reliability* or *applicability* of a source. A painting is not a piece of clothing. A written description or an inventory reference is not a piece of clothing. But if they're from the same time and place, painted or written by people who saw that clothing, they're still primary sources. So, because a poet in 14th century England has experienced clothing of *that* time and place, his poems are primary sources for our study of it, even though his personal opinions or literary objectives may influence his description. The rhetorical choices made by the 14th century author can actually be a *useful* factor in research as long as you understand how to use it -- it can tell us something about what the people of the time valued or perceived about clothing. In other words, each type of primary source (be it image, text, or even artifact) presents its own limitations or issues that the historian needs to take into account, and the historian needs to seek to balance or compensate for these limitations with an understanding of the context and the wise use of other types of primary sources. But the whole idea of using "primary" and "secondary" to distinguish degrees of removal from the artifact, for sources still within the same time-place context, just leaves me scratching my head. This redefinition of terminology seems to have become pervasive in SCA circles among people who really, truly want to promote good use of sources. In addition to Cynthia's article and Tasha's post, I see the same thing on Kass's site at http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/research.html , under "Types of Sources." All three of these ladies known for doing good research, and all three seem to have picked up this same set of new distinctions, so clearly these ideas are getting a lot of play out there in re-enactment circles. I can only guess that this originated in a good-faith attempt to teach people to find and use the best sources, and somehow developed into a far-too-literal use of the conventional terms. Cynthia acknowledges some of this difference in definitions in the last two paragraphs of her article at http://www.virtue.to/articles/sources.html . But I still don't know where the stricter definitions came from. I would be very interested in hearing from some of the other people on the list who work in academic areas. I won't rule out that maybe there's been some huge terminology change that I've somehow missed in the years that I've been active in the field. It's also possible that these definitions are specific to the field of material culture. Material culture research poses some different issues for historical study compared with the "conventional" study of history, where the definitions of "primary" and "secondary" sources originated. And perhaps material culture needs a new set of terms to cover some of these distinctions that are not so vital for people who are studying, say, events. (You can't put your hands on an extant event -- so your primary sources are going to be mostly text and images.) Even so, I think that the literalmindedness that is leading some people to say that only the artifact is "primary" threatens to reinforce the tunnelvision I see in some people who do reenactment-based research, who focus strictly on "how is this thing made" without ever becoming aware of such issues as "in what social context would it have been worn," or "what messages would wearing this item have sent to people of the time," or "what are the economic factors involved in the choice of techniques and materials." These are all vital questions that won't be solved just by examination of an artifact; they require use of other primary -- yes, primary -- sources from the period, including text and images and other types of archaeological evidence. All those pieces of information are necessary to create a complete context for "history of dress," and "history of dress" covers a darn sight more than "how was it made." --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 17:05:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3M5rOL016198 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:05:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3M4wcC022228; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:04:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3M4uOg028770; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:04:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3M4qOg028712 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:04:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:04:51 -0500 Message-ID: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA955F@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:04:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All this reminds me of one of the best compliments I ever recieved. I was showing someone at work various pictures from Celtic festivals and Ren Faires I had been to. So they saw me in a range of outfits from great kilt, viking pants and t-tunic, to fitted Italian style doublet. The person remarked "You know what? You have the perfect face and hair for this. No matter which outfit you are in, you look like that's what you should be wearing." After years of being teased in high school for having long hair and glasses (typical nerd) I was shocked. Bjorn Arnaldsson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 17:29:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3MTPOL016279 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:29:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3MSMcC024757; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:28:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3MSJOg018799; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:28:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3MSEOh018644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:28:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA3MRePX032657 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:27:40 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:27:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA6D6B3.4020202@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:29:07 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd love to have more feedback on this issue. When I wrote the article, I was all in a lather because people writing to me from the Midrealm of the SCA (middle northern USA plains) said their A&S people had decreed that only primary documentation was acceptable, and defined it as a painting or similar from the time period in question. So I was trying to make two points: 1: You lose information in a painting, so it's not primary for clothing, compared with handling the clothes yourself, the which idea I checked with a couple of scholars that I knew, but that of course doesn't guarantee the result. 2: It's silly to define your acceptable sources this way, it's better to judge on their suitability overall. Constructive critism is very, very welcome. cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 17:49:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3Mn5OL016359 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:49:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Mm7cC026574; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:48:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Mm4Og004813; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:48:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA3MlvOg004572 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:47:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oj3HrufQLwUwQa6RxytnDEA=">; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:46:54 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JD4KHANL; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:46:54 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:35:32 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair Message-ID: <20031103.144551.1652.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,14-15,18-22 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone. > Regarding traction alopecia: > > A sort of 'which came first, the baldness or the hennin?' Kat writes: > I don't think we'll ever know for sure how it started. However, I > suspect that one of the reasons for the changes to a more and more > extreme look is that form followed function. I'd heard that the hennin style may have been a fashion result of the Plague--many of those who survived suffered hair loss. Is this a medieval urban myth? One of these days I promise to let Regina talk me into dressing medieval German. My genetic heritage really shows, but I so love English history..... ;) Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 17:49:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3MnTOL016362 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:49:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3MmfcC026687; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:48:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3MmfOg005313; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:48:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA3MlvOg004574 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:47:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oj3HrufQLwUw1IPeQelwgDI=">; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:46:54 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JD4KHANN; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:46:54 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:42:53 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] question ? Message-ID: <20031103.144551.1652.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,13-15,17-20,23-30,32-34 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:31:27 -0500 M Stewart writes: > > Hey folks... weird question... > > Has anyone ever had a judge not read their documentation? > Or not in depth? It hasn't happened to me personally, but I have heard from fellow competitors of judges who were being flat stupid. A friend who is a potter and lived in a tiny apartment and *of course* used a modern kiln as it was what she had access to in a nearby clay studio was summarily asked/snarked at as to why she *didn't* have her own home kiln even though my friend made the point very clearly verbally and in her docs (cost, fire codes(!!!), and space). > It's happened to me a couple of times - where I have > received commentary or questions on a facet of a garment - When actually the > explaination or proof for the detail was included in the > documentation. Part of presenting, IMHO, is to bring out those key points, to call the judge's attention to those areas, and/or to areas they may have overlooked. > > I think it is mainly a factor of insufficient time allowed > to the judges. > Insights? Ideas? Please tell me I'm not the only one ; > > > Bridgette You're not. Not even close. :) Time can be a huge factor. Some people prefer to read after oral presentations too. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 18:15:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3NFKOL016444 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:15:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NEWcC029950; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:14:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NEVwh026706; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:14:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav23.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NERwh026588 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:14:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:14:21 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav23.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:14:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200311010642.hA16gON10408@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate ReproductionClothing") Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:13:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2003 23:14:21.0395 (UTC) FILETIME=[36A68A30:01C3A260] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > There have been many fashionable eyebrow shapes in history. > So I can see why someone wearing the most fashionable _current_ > brow shape would be jarring if they're in period clothes for a photograph. Well, lucky me, I don't ever touch my brows, so if I'm no more fashionable for that period as the curent one, at least I won't be jarring on a photograph! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 18:16:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3NGbOL016448 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:16:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NFtcC000194; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:15:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NFrwh027934; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:15:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NFmwh027826 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:15:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25567; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:39:53 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:39:53 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair In-Reply-To: <20031103.144551.1652.0.Cley@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > I'd heard that the hennin style may have been a fashion result of the > Plague--many of those who survived suffered hair loss. Is this a > medieval urban myth? I'd suspect it's an urban myth. I've done several extensive articles on the medical aspects of plague and never heard of "hair loss" mentioned specifically. More to the point, plague swept through Europe around 1350 -- about 100 years before the super-high-forehead hennin styles. There were sporadic, smaller waves of plague for a while afterward, but I'd expect that if there was a huge hair loss effect, we'd have seen something of it in the mid-14th century, not the mid-15th. And with men as well as women... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 18:35:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3NZUOL016491 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:35:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NYkcC002104; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:34:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NYhwh014023; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:34:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NYewh013991 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:34:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.63.24] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5476020184; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:31:19 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0FDAA774.1742EE4E.0BD9917F@aol.com> References: <0FDAA774.1742EE4E.0BD9917F@aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:09:36 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] LA Garment District Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kit asks: >Hey Rima, > >Willing to share Vendor names? Like I KNOW them???? ;-D I just know where to find them in the maze of stores... ;-D One I DO know for sure: Fabrics & Fabrics on 9th street (not the cheapest, but GREAT quality!) just E of Maple on the N side. Other one, I couldn't tell you. It's also on 9th near Kashkool (who sometimes has a good selection of dupioni and cotton velvet) on the S side, and the guy in there is "Morty". The trick is in the bargaining, and in being able to buy enough yardage.... Rima "Yes, I know, but how much for ME if I buy 20 yards right now?" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 18:35:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3NZbOL016495 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:35:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NZ2cC002144; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NZ1wh014279; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NYgwh014008 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:34:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.63.24] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5496020184; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:31:21 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003601c3a019$e4c750c0$892ca5d1@pavilion> References: <003601c3a019$e4c750c0$892ca5d1@pavilion> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:10:45 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I think an accurate model would add to the book and not be a distraction as >long as he or she was dressed to match the shoe style. The one thing I get >fixated on apart from eyeglasses, is eyebrow styles. Don't know why this >stands out for me, but I find it jarring to see anachronistic eyebrows on >models. LOL! My pet peeve is a perfect modern manicure, complete with polish.... Rima harumph! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 18:35:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3NZjOL016499 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:35:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NZ9cC002195; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NZ9wh014375; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NYiwh014032 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:34:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.63.24] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A54B6020184; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:31:23 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031031215205.0295a640@64.87.54.245> References: <146.1b834c08.2cd3cb85@aol.com> <146.1b834c08.2cd3cb85@aol.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031031215205.0295a640@64.87.54.245> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:44:28 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >At 01:20 PM 10/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: >>>Pul-eeze! Only if she's a complete cluts! >> >>Yeah, that bugged me too. Sheesh! Doesn't he think we know how >>to manage our garments?????? >> >>Rima > > >I will admit, the first few times I wore a hoop skirt, I fell flat >on my face during processions. It took time and practice to wear the >thing ok. I am still having to remember how to walk like a lady, and >not like I normally do, which is much more manly. Makes me look like >I am stomping about in my hoops if I forget. > >Kimiko Oh sure. and when I first started wearing all my stuff, I put a lot of sleeves in my dinner.... But we learn how to manage our garments FAST. That's one thing I really appreciate in period films.... when the actors have had a chance to "inhabit" their clothes. You can just TELL when someone hasn't gotten the feeling that they live in their garb. That's one of my fave things about the Lester 3 and 4 Musketeers from the 70's.... everyone is right at home in their clothing. Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 18:35:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3NZxOL016502 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:35:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NZHcC002213; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:35:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NZHwh014477; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:35:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NYnwh014121 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:34:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.63.24] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5506020184; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:31:28 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00cb01c3a0bf$26d07820$ecf74a43@4gxif> References: <002601c3a09b$9cd9cb80$a63aa5d1@pavilion> <00cb01c3a0bf$26d07820$ecf74a43@4gxif> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:56:16 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century prayer books Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Lisa wrote: >Have any of you out there researched the area of 16th century Englis prayer >books?..... The ones found almost as fashion accessories in portraits. I'd >like to obtain a few of the texts commonly used in these books from EEBO and >make a few prayer books up and I'm not sure which texts were commonly used. >Psalms I would image, anything else? Did the contents change after the >split with Rome? Any websites you can direct me to? OK, HURT ME! About 15 years ago, I was in a very reputable antique book store in NY, and actually held in my hand a book of hours that was purported to belong to Elizabeth. They wanted something like $900 for it. About 4X5 inches, light color leather cover, tooling with remnants of gold leaf... in pretty good condition for such an old book. Naturally, I didn't dare open it without gloves....... That was $900 I didn't have in my life at the time, so I was forced to put it down (weeping...) If, in your travels, you come across such a book, LET ME KNOW. I won't make that same mistake again! Rima *sniffle* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 18:48:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3Nm2OL016558 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:48:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NlLcC003400; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:47:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NlIwh023434; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:47:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NlFwh023396 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:47:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.63.24] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A83A6270184; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:43:54 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FA565A2.5AE095EF@mccc.edu> References: <3FA565A2.5AE095EF@mccc.edu> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:39:02 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk at JoAnn's Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Was just at my local Joann Fabrics and they had a beautiful lightweight >silk that was stitched in 1 inch squares with pearls sewn in the >centerin that just off-white color. I think that's what I'm going to >use my 50% off coupon for-- at $39.99/yd that's the only way I'm buying >it. Now to figure out what to make!. Since the pearls are most >certainly fake, I wonder how it will take dye. Anyone dyed fake pearls >before? >Kate OHMIGOD I'm SURE I can get that for you WAY WAY cheaper. Are you in a hurry? Rima NEVER pay retail! ;-/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 18:48:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3NmGOL016561 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:48:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NlYcC003427; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:47:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NlXwh023623; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:47:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NlJwh023456 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:47:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.63.24] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A83E6270184; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:43:58 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <016F9120-0DB4-11D8-AD8E-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> References: <016F9120-0DB4-11D8-AD8E-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:50:33 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic - linen for tablecloth Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I'm looking for some linen or linen-cotton blend that would be a >nice weight and hand for a tablecloth and napkin set. Has anyone >purchased any recently that seemed like a good option for this? > >thanks! > >.heather. Try these guys: http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/w-054.html http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/w-055.html Made a dress out of the first.... VERY nice.... Rima if you don't mind ironing.... ;-D _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 18:54:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3NsgOL016628 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:54:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NrrcC003997; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:53:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Nrpwh028388; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:53:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Nrmwh028292 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:53:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA3Nrgj12531 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:53:42 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:59:43 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, I'm taking a history course right now and paintings are not considered a primary source as the painter may or may not be giving us an accurate depiction of clothing. Paintings are considered excellent starting point, but it is a secondary source. This is true in relation to the doctoral dissertation I'm working on. best regards, Althea On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 03:06 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Tasha McGann wrote: > >> The upshot is that unless you yourself have examined an article of >> clothing in person, it's not really a primary source for your >> purposes. Photos of such things, and writings about such things, are >> secondary sources -- excellent sources, nonetheless. There is no shame >> in having all secondary sources on your Works Cited list. It's darn >> near impossible to be fortunate enough to list a real primary source. >> >> Another confusion on the subject is that of paintings. Perhaps you >> have, in person, examined a painting which depicts clothing in great >> detail. That painting is a primary source for the subject of painting, >> but not for clothing. It's probably an excellent secondary source for >> clothing, but in the end, the clothing itself is being filtered >> through another medium -- the artist's mind and hand. > > > > Someone asked me about this distinction at KWCS a few weeks ago, and > what > I told her was this: I have heard this particular sort of distinction > between primary and secondary and tertiary ONLY from re-enactors > (particularly SCA people). I have never heard it used in this way by > academic historians. And I suspect that if you said to a professional > historian that a painting from the 15th century is *not* a primary > source > for dress of the 15th century, you would get a look of stark amazement, > because your listener would conclude you have no idea what the terms > mean. > And that would go double if you said that when you're working from a > photo > of the painting, that makes it a tertiary source. > > I just looked over Cynthia's article, which includes this helpful link > to > some historians' definitions of primary sources: > > http://www.library.yale.edu/ref/err/primdefs.htm > > What's important to see from these definitions is that the distinction > between "primary" and "secondary" is *not* the degree of separation > from > the object of study, but rather the degree of separation from personal > experience of the thing under study. An artist in 15th century Flanders > has seen (and worn!) clothing of his own place and period, and his > paintings are a primary source for a modern scholar's work in dress > history of that period/place, as far as historians are concerned. The > fact > that the image is filtered through the artist's mind and hand does not > change the primary-ness of the source, though it does add an > interpretive > layer that we need to take into account as we analyze and apply the > source. > > On the other hand, a chronicler of the 15th century is a primary source > for events of his own time, but if he recounts a battle of the 12th > century based on a selection of other chronicles he's read about it, > that's a secondary source -- just as if a modern author writes about > the > same battle based on earlier reports. > > There's no question that degree of removal in personal experience, even > for someone of the same period, changes the *reliability* or > *applicability* of a source. A painting is not a piece of clothing. A > written description or an inventory reference is not a piece of > clothing. > But if they're from the same time and place, painted or written by > people > who saw that clothing, they're still primary sources. So, because a > poet > in 14th century England has experienced clothing of *that* time and > place, > his poems are primary sources for our study of it, even though his > personal opinions or literary objectives may influence his description. > The rhetorical choices made by the 14th century author can actually be > a > *useful* factor in research as long as you understand how to use it -- > it > can tell us something about what the people of the time valued or > perceived about clothing. In other words, each type of primary source > (be > it image, text, or even artifact) presents its own limitations or > issues > that the historian needs to take into account, and the historian needs > to > seek to balance or compensate for these limitations with an > understanding > of the context and the wise use of other types of primary sources. > > But the whole idea of using "primary" and "secondary" to distinguish > degrees of removal from the artifact, for sources still within the same > time-place context, just leaves me scratching my head. This > redefinition > of terminology seems to have become pervasive in SCA circles among > people > who really, truly want to promote good use of sources. In addition to > Cynthia's article and Tasha's post, I see the same thing on Kass's > site at > http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/research.html , under > "Types of Sources." All three of these ladies known for doing good > research, and all three seem to have picked up this same set of new > distinctions, so clearly these ideas are getting a lot of play out > there > in re-enactment circles. I can only guess that this originated in a > good-faith attempt to teach people to find and use the best sources, > and > somehow developed into a far-too-literal use of the conventional terms. > > Cynthia acknowledges some of this difference in definitions in the last > two paragraphs of her article at > http://www.virtue.to/articles/sources.html . But I still don't know > where > the stricter definitions came from. > > I would be very interested in hearing from some of the other people on > the > list who work in academic areas. I won't rule out that maybe there's > been > some huge terminology change that I've somehow missed in the years that > I've been active in the field. > > It's also possible that these definitions are specific to the field of > material culture. Material culture research poses some different issues > for historical study compared with the "conventional" study of history, > where the definitions of "primary" and "secondary" sources originated. > And perhaps material culture needs a new set of terms to cover some of > these distinctions that are not so vital for people who are studying, > say, > events. (You can't put your hands on an extant event -- so your primary > sources are going to be mostly text and images.) > > Even so, I think that the literalmindedness that is leading some > people to > say that only the artifact is "primary" threatens to reinforce the > tunnelvision I see in some people who do reenactment-based research, > who > focus strictly on "how is this thing made" without ever becoming aware > of > such issues as "in what social context would it have been worn," or > "what > messages would wearing this item have sent to people of the time," or > "what are the economic factors involved in the choice of techniques and > materials." These are all vital questions that won't be solved just by > examination of an artifact; they require use of other primary -- yes, > primary -- sources from the period, including text and images and other > types of archaeological evidence. All those pieces of information are > necessary to create a complete context for "history of dress," and > "history of dress" covers a darn sight more than "how was it made." > > --Robin > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 18:55:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3NtBOL016631 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:55:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NsOcC004038; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:54:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3NsMwh028865; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:54:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav65.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3Nrswh028372 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:53:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:53:49 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav65.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:53:49 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:52:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2003 23:53:49.0668 (UTC) FILETIME=[BA405240:01C3A265] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >....possibly have all the tiny little details right. If they were in period > >clothing, I'd expect them to be using only period tools and using those > >tools exactly in the period way, in a period setting.... I think I'd prefer > >someone dressed plainly in modern clothes. > > But they will be using only period tools and period techniques. That's the > point of the book :) > I understand that. I'm just telling you that, in order for me not to find this distracting, it would have to be almost perfect. Oh, if you go this way, please use clothing that doesn't look brand new? It doesn't need to be torn or dirty, just worn. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 19:03:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA403POL016667 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:03:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA402dcC004745; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA402cin004943; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:02:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA402Yin004846 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:02:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCrpadtWO52CL1AzVzzlIgudxsmx9BMWe/w==">; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:02:26 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JD4PTLEY; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:02:26 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:57:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing" Message-ID: <20031103.175704.-165279251.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9-10,17-24,26-42 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just about every year at Bristol RenFaire, I get to see women who have seldom/never worn long, full, heavy skirts attempt to learn to move gracefully in them. The typical early 21st century style of walking, which looks fine in modern clothes, makes them look like truck drivers in drag when they put their farthingales and skirts on. This is one reason we (Guilde of St. George) make them do all their dance rehearsals wearing at least hoops and corset and preferably as much of their outfit as they have available to wear so that they will learn to move gracefully in them and look comfortable doing so. It still takes some ladies most of the season before management of the skirts becomes second nature. One thing that I've noticed is that we tend to walk slightly tilted forward (as if we were walking down a slight incline) which is a recipe for disaster in a farthingale as it drastically increases your chances of walking up the front. It looks so much better (and works better too) if one walks with one's hips tilted slightly forward, spine straight up and down, with most of the walking motion coming from the knees down rather than from the hips as we are used to walking. Karen On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:44:28 -0800 Rima writes: > Oh sure. and when I first started wearing all my stuff, I put a > lot of sleeves in my dinner.... But we learn how to manage our garments > FAST. > > That's one thing I really appreciate in period films.... when the > actors have had a chance to "inhabit" their clothes. You can just > TELL when someone hasn't gotten the feeling that they live in their > garb. > > That's one of my fave things about the Lester 3 and 4 Musketeers > from the 70's.... everyone is right at home in their clothing. > > Rima > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 19:08:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA408fOL016683 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:08:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA407xcC005200; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:07:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA407tin008497; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:07:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA407rin008471 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:07:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.63.24] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD1041B01DE; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:04:32 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FA6964E.4040201@thibault.org> References: <3FA6964E.4040201@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:03:11 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Someone has mentioned that some hair might be not painted in because >the fashion was for a high forehead (much as I'd like someone >painting me to lessen my double chin(s)). Exactly...... we airbrush and stretch photos now to suit our tastes.... I'm QUITE sure that painters were more than happy to flatter their subjects.... especially since their subjects were usually their patrons! Rima PLEASE make me look thinner, and give me a real jawline.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 19:20:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA40KkOL016839 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:20:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40JucC006146; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:19:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40Jpin016558; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:19:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40Jnin016537 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:19:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 133E3369E2 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:19:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AGovE-00081o-00 for ; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:19:48 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) In-Reply-To: <04f801c3a23f$13f07170$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> References: <3FA62E49.13135.1E13FDE0@localhost> <04f801c3a23f$13f07170$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:19:48 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dianne wrote: > I'm 5'0, about 140 pounds, hourglass shape. Long, straight dark hair (very > fine and slippery but fairly thick), round face, dark eyes, olive skin. > Ancestry is English/Welsh/Norwegian. Interesting... with that colouration you could be just about anywhere in Europe except for the north-western bits which tend towards fair colouring. I'd say mediterranean based on the colouring, but you don't tend to see a lot of round faces there. Perhaps something kind of central European? Start at Germany or Northern Italy and work inland. Your hourglass shape would probably work well for many periods, especially 19th century, but avoid the Regency period and 1920s! K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 19:35:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA40ZLOL016877 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:35:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40YicC007279; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:34:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40Ygin025622; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:34:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40Ydin025598 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:34:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEEDB36A06 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:34:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AGp9a-00083M-00 for ; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:34:38 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:34:38 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Megan wrote: > Here is a picture taken of me and my stepdaughter last December before I cut > my hair off: > http://benchite.com/megan/benchite%20website/2002_1226_MeganEmily.jpg > > I am: blonde hair, fairly straight (used to be light, straight, wispy, but > as I got older it got more body and a bit of wave at the bottom). Face: > oval with high cheekbones, fair complexion to slightly ruddy (I usually use > the lightest shade of foundation available in any given line, or close to > it). Blue eyes. Wide, square shoulders, tend to muscular arms, large > busted, short waisted (back waist lenght about 15.5 inches on a 5'6" > person), long legged. Little differentiation between bust, waist, hips > (thick waisted). I carry my weight in the trunk, not hips/thighs, although > my waist is smaller than the bust and hips. My ancestors are predominantly > Polish/Prussian/Luthuanian on my mother's side, and my father is half > Czechoslovakian and half Scotch-Irish. Or, as I like to say, enough Irish to > get the name, and the rest is most of eastern Europe. Oh yeah, I'm 40, so I > don't need the Britney Spears version of anything. I usually wear about a > size 18 these days, US version. Drea's already given her answer, but I'll give mine as well. With your colouring you want something north-west European. Anything from England through the low countries, Germany, Scandinavia. Your short-waistedness says that you should probably go for something that isn't long-waisted by design, and since you say you're thick-waisted you probably also want to avoid anything that's aiming for an hourglass shape. You also won't want floaty-wispy fabrics or pastel colours - they'd tend to make you look frumpy or washed out. So that basically excludes everything from 1800-1939, inclusive. Anything that tries to make your shoulders look slopey will just be wrong, too. I'd go for something with a natural to slightly high waist that's not over-accentuated, and squarish shaped shoulders. Drea mentioned early Norse ("Viking") and I'll admit that's what came to mind straight away for me. It would really work with your colouring and facial shape, I think. I can see you in BIG 16th century german, the sort with the huge hats. You need a certain kind of presence to carry that off and I think you could do it. I think you'd also look "right" in 15th century Flemish styles, the ones with the fitted kirtles with pin-on sleeves. This is the only pic I could find of the style: http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=364 K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 19:44:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA40iAOL016900 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:44:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40hTcC007940; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:43:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40hRin000849; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:43:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40hPin000804 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:43:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26079 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:07:31 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:07:31 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Althea Turner wrote: > I'm taking a history course right now and paintings are not considered > a primary source as the painter may or may not be giving us an > accurate depiction of clothing. Paintings are considered excellent > starting point, but it is a secondary source. This is true in > relation to the doctoral dissertation I'm working on. OK, that's a new one on me for an academic venue. What is your course in, specifically, and at what level? And did this come up in response to a question specifically about clothing study, or in some other context? (The average history professor isn't working in material culture...) As I see it, the fact that the painting is "not accurate" is pretty much a given; the task for the researcher is how to identify the particular inaccuracies, and to contrast them with the other inaccuracies that occur in other artistic media or in textual sources, each type of which has its own limitations. Together, you can use the various pieces of evidence to piece together a better "whole" picture. For instance, brasses tend to be laden with certain symbolic values and have features that are artifacts of the production process, but they're wonderful for grasping regional details and sequential shifts in style. Tapestries are great sources on colors but lousy on dates; manuscripts the other way around. Literature almost by definition uses costume for rhetorical/symbolic purposes, while inventories are very factual but extremely narrow in context. All are primary sources; all show a partial but not a complete view of the fashion at hand. Extant garments are no more "accurate" than text or images; they thave their own limitations, related to survival of materials, restoration, confusion about provenance and ownership, and much more. It's very easy and perilous to fall into the trap of saying "this is our only extant garment from X period/place, so it's the only evidence we can use for any style from X period/place" -- when the garment represents only one single case, not necessarily the norm, and certainly not all classes or techniques or styles. Often the reason a garment is preserved is because it is unusual in some way. For a period that's rich in visual and written references but poor in extant pieces, the artwork and documents together may be a far more reliable source for many fashions. (This will sound familir to anyone who's heard me explain why we can't extrapolate from the Herjolfsnes finds to the court of France.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 19:44:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA40iGOL016903 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:44:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40hfcC007974; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:43:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40hein000972; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:43:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20208.mail.yahoo.com (web20208.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA40hSin000859 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:43:29 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031104004328.73419.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:43:28 EST Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:43:28 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Rima wrote: > >Someone has mentioned that some hair might be not painted in because > >the fashion was for a high forehead (much as I'd like someone > >painting me to lessen my double chin(s)). > Exactly...... we airbrush and stretch photos now to suit our > tastes.... I'm QUITE sure that painters were more than happy to > flatter their subjects.... especially since their subjects were > usually their patrons! I don't know what time period the above is relation to, so I address my point in relation to the SCA time frame. We cannot take it for granted that people everywhere in the 1000 or so years that the SCA period covers thought exactly as the photography/media industry does today. The point should be made that (I would guess and relatively speaking) very few people get professional photos taken, and fewer still would consent to airbrushing. Even today, when the "seven deadly sins" holds little to no meaning for many of us, this is seen as a sign of vanity. Think what it may have been thought of in the age in which the seven deadly sins held sway. This practice has become a standard (and often villified one) of the media industry today. I have seen many portraits in which the sitter was most definitely not flattered. I also find it hard to believe that the clothing worn in such portraits would be deliberately painted any differently to what the painter can see. Some artists were better than others at obtaining the fine detail in portraits - and those were the ones highly sought after, and known even to this day for their detailed portraits. Sofonisba Anguissola was one such - and was invited to the Spanish court (where she remained for many years) for no other reason than to be a court portrait painter. Her sitters (and their garments) look real and most definitely not flattered. ===== **************************************** Bella *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net *Courtesan Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ ***************************************** http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 19:56:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA40uSOL016958 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:56:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40ticC009118; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:55:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40tfjL008542; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:55:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA40tcjL008470 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:55:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA40tXt27988 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:55:33 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:01:35 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <6FB537A0-0E62-11D8-A5DB-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hiya, The class is on the cultural and historical aspects of the near environment. (Due to budget cuts, apparel history has to share space with interiors..) It covers aspects of dress and the built environment. The prof acknowledged that the primary/secondary definition is rather fuzzy when it comes to paintings. So for the class, paintings/mosaics/pottery are secondary when it comes to dress. It is considered primary if you are studying paintings/mosaics/pottery. The class is undergrad/grad combined (another fun time with budget cuts). I'm a grad student and should get back to my paper on the merovingian near environment. :) YMMV, Althea On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 06:07 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Althea Turner wrote: > >> I'm taking a history course right now and paintings are not considered >> a primary source as the painter may or may not be giving us an >> accurate depiction of clothing. Paintings are considered excellent >> starting point, but it is a secondary source. This is true in >> relation to the doctoral dissertation I'm working on. > > OK, that's a new one on me for an academic venue. What is your course > in, > specifically, and at what level? And did this come up in response to a > question specifically about clothing study, or in some other context? > (The > average history professor isn't working in material culture...) > > As I see it, the fact that the painting is "not accurate" is pretty > much a > given; the task for the researcher is how to identify the particular > inaccuracies, and to contrast them with the other inaccuracies that > occur > in other artistic media or in textual sources, each type of which has > its > own limitations. Together, you can use the various pieces of evidence > to > piece together a better "whole" picture. For instance, brasses tend to > be > laden with certain symbolic values and have features that are > artifacts of > the production process, but they're wonderful for grasping regional > details and sequential shifts in style. Tapestries are great sources on > colors but lousy on dates; manuscripts the other way around. Literature > almost by definition uses costume for rhetorical/symbolic purposes, > while > inventories are very factual but extremely narrow in context. All are > primary sources; all show a partial but not a complete view of the > fashion > at hand. > > Extant garments are no more "accurate" than text or images; they thave > their own limitations, related to survival of materials, restoration, > confusion about provenance and ownership, and much more. It's very easy > and perilous to fall into the trap of saying "this is our only extant > garment from X period/place, so it's the only evidence we can use for > any > style from X period/place" -- when the garment represents only one > single > case, not necessarily the norm, and certainly not all classes or > techniques or styles. Often the reason a garment is preserved is > because > it is unusual in some way. For a period that's rich in visual and > written > references but poor in extant pieces, the artwork and documents > together > may be a far more reliable source for many fashions. (This will sound > familir to anyone who's heard me explain why we can't extrapolate from > the > Herjolfsnes finds to the court of France.) > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 20:08:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA418OOL016989 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:08:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA416JcC009883; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:06:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA416IjL014931; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:06:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA416EjL014911 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:06:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.63.24] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AABDD00204; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:02:53 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031104004328.73419.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031104004328.73419.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:09:03 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bella says: > --- Rima wrote: > >> >Someone has mentioned that some hair might be not painted in because >> >the fashion was for a high forehead (much as I'd like someone > > >painting me to lessen my double chin(s)). > >> Exactly...... we airbrush and stretch photos now to suit our >> tastes.... I'm QUITE sure that painters were more than happy to >> flatter their subjects.... especially since their subjects were > > usually their patrons! > >I don't know what time period the above is relation to, oh, it was a rash generalization! ;-D >so I address my point in relation to the >SCA time frame. > >We cannot take it for granted that people everywhere in the 1000 or >so years that the SCA period >covers thought exactly as the photography/media industry does today. No question. But then again, someone just posted that amazing list of beauty products... I'm sure vanity was alive and well, despite its sinfulness... otherwise nobody would be wearing all that cool stuff we're working so hard to duplicate! ;-D I'm also sure that painters are painters, and they know about painting, not garments.... so there's no way of knowing how faithful their depiction of them might be. Again, if I look at how dancers are most frequently portrayed in art to this very day, I would say, IMHO, that artists know NOTHING about it, or their vision is very poor.... so why should they do better with garments????? This all leads me to believe that most painters paint their impression, not the literal thing they see, no matter how detailed the final product might seem. And, if painters are poets on canvas, then that is their duty - to convey their impression, as opposed to an accurate historical record.... as much as we might sometimes wish otherwise.... Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 20:22:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA41MaOL017041 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:22:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41KgcC010849; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:20:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41KfjL023221; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:20:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41KWjM023139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:20:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9415 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2003 01:20:28 -0000 Received: from dap-208-1-140-56.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO castlebooks) ([208.1.140.56]) (envelope-sender )SMTP for ; 4 Nov 2003 01:20:28 -0000 Message-ID: <009d01c3a271$d97c44f0$388c01d0@castlebooks> From: "Janet Davis" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:20:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you Robin. This is how I was taught to define primary and secondary sources when I was in college, studying medieval history. This other definition, which I have heard in the SCA, seems so perfectionist. Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 20:23:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA41N3OL017044 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:23:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41MPcC010973; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:22:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41MOjL024185; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:22:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41MLjL024156 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:22:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.63.24] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE8410F0204; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:19:00 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:17:54 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Girl with a Pearl Earring X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of paintings, movies, and such, have you guys seen the trailers for this?????? OHMIGOD Rima http://www.girlwithapearlearringmovie.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 20:42:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA41gBOL017242 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:42:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41fNcC012810; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:41:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41fL0S006679; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:41:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20203.mail.yahoo.com (web20203.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA41fJ0S006646 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:41:19 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031104013438.68135.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:34:38 EST Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:34:38 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I said: > >We cannot take it for granted that people everywhere in the 1000 or > >so years that the SCA period > >covers thought exactly as the photography/media industry does today. Rima replied: > > No question. But then again, someone just posted that amazing list > of beauty products... I'm sure vanity was alive and well, despite > its sinfulness... otherwise nobody would be wearing all that cool > stuff we're working so hard to duplicate! ;-D Oh it sure was! Not everyone listened to the preachers. But to expand that into a medieval/renaissance version of airbrushing? I think that's a mistake, one that's too easy to make in this day and age. Ok, so counterfeit stones were ok, but counterfeit representation of people, in many cases royalty? I think that would have gone against the grain of the renaissance humanist principles, if nothing else. > > I'm also sure that painters are painters, and they know about > painting, not garments.... so there's no way of knowing how faithful > their depiction of them might be. As Robin so eloquently mentioned in a previous post, the also *wore* the garments, or at least were witness to robing/disrobing and were familiar with the way the garments of both men and women were put together. So long as what we are discussing is a portrait, not a biblical/allegorical painting, I think it is unwise to assume that the painter has any other agenda than to faithfully depict the very rich clothing of his/her very rich sitters - who would, I'm certain, wish for as accurate a depiction of their wealth as possible. > Again, if I look at how dancers are most frequently portrayed in art > to this very day, I would say, IMHO, that artists know NOTHING about > it, or their vision is very poor.... so why should they do better > with garments????? That, perhaps, has more to do with the art movement during which most of the dancers I see were depicted - impressionism? > This all leads me to believe that most painters paint their > impression, Yes. It would. :) > not the literal thing they see, no matter how detailed > the final product might seem. And, if painters are poets on canvas, > then that is their duty - to convey their impression, as opposed to > an accurate historical record.... as much as we might sometimes wish > otherwise.... As I said, if portraits of the sixteenth century are what we are discussing, then I am certain that the artist's "impression" or "poetry" didn't come into it. Not so for allegorical art (even though dress details can be backed up in such art - such as the location of lacing openings) or biblical art, in which the artist has to use imagination as a primary source of inspiration, and clothing details are not so reliable. ===== **************************************** Bella *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net *Courtesan Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ ***************************************** http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 20:43:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA41hcOL017248 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:43:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41gscC012940; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:42:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41gs0S007515; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:42:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav2.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41gp0S007434 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:42:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:42:46 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav2.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:42:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031103135727.G49675-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:36:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2003 01:42:46.0547 (UTC) FILETIME=[F288E630:01C3A274] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > When someone is in clothing that fits and flatters them they tend to be > more comfortable and move more naturally in it, which enhances the > authentic effect and makes it seem more clothing than costume. The reverse is also true. Some clothing will be more suitable to your natural body movements. I have a very stiff body (I've never been able to touch the ground with my figers, not even as a kid - and then I learned how to hold my body stiff by taking ballet lessons for almost 10 years, so it's both a natural thing and an acquired thing). Don't ask me to do latin dances, my hips are just not loose enough for it to look good. I look best in formal clothes. Fitted suits, straight skirts. Anything too loose or too flowing just doesn't suit me. So I guess I'll look good in Elizabethan, once I get my dresses finished :-) My ancestors seem to come directly from France, on both sides of the family. Well... parts of the tree we know about, in any case. I don't know anything about region or social standing. I probably have some Amerindian blood somewhere along the line, supposedly it's almost impossible not to have some around here, and since we did live with the English for a long time, it's very possible that I have some English blood as well. But I have never found anyone who looks like me on a portrait. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 20:49:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA41nAOL017354 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:49:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41mScC013444; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:48:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41mN0S010640; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:48:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav53.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41mK0S010549 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:48:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:48:15 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav53.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:48:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003601c3a019$e4c750c0$892ca5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:42:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2003 01:48:15.0549 (UTC) FILETIME=[B6A29ED0:01C3A275] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > My pet peeve is a perfect modern manicure, complete with polish.... oooh... yuck... And sometimes, the hands are okay, but they're wearing sandals, and their toe nails are painted red or black... I can understand, but it doesn't mean I have to like it! Or... modern shiny lipstick... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 20:53:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA41rBOL017431 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:53:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41qTcC013692; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:52:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41qS0S013046; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:52:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41qO0S012996 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:52:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26401 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:16:29 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:16:29 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) In-Reply-To: <6FB537A0-0E62-11D8-A5DB-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Althea Turner wrote: > The class is on the cultural and historical aspects of the near > environment. (Due to budget cuts, apparel history has to share space > with interiors..) It covers aspects of dress and the built > environment. The prof acknowledged that the primary/secondary > definition is rather fuzzy when it comes to paintings. So for the > class, paintings/mosaics/pottery are secondary when it comes to dress. > It is considered primary if you are studying > paintings/mosaics/pottery. Interesting. It does sound as though this is more of a material culture class; perhaps there's a different definition among material culture specialists after all, though I hang out with textile people and haven't heard it before. A written document -- say, a guild record of import regulations or loom widths or thread count for specific fabrics -- is smack on as a primary source for textiles, even though it's not a textile itself. Paintings that show multiple textiles in use in interior paintings are indeed an observer's report, but I can't imagine anyone I know in the textile community saying they're "secondary" sources on the use of textiles for interior design; if you take care to allow for the allegorical, you can draw valuable information about things like known fabric patterns or uses for fabrics in home decor. Ditto for, say, a literary reference that describes someone sitting on a bench with cushions ... there's your primary source that cushions were known, and used on benches, at least sometimes. And so on. But even within a material culture focus, if your class is on looking at "cultural and historical aspects" of dress, surely you're going to have to get a lot of your information from sources other than extant clothing itself. How would your professor feel about, say, sumptuary laws? They don't necessarily tell us what people were actually wearing (because the laws were often ignored), so they're "inaccurate" in that respect, but they do tell us what types of clothing, furs, textiles, etc. were known and available in a given place and time. That sounds like a primary source to me, meaning information coming directly from the time and place. But it's not an extant garment. Does that make it a secondary source for purposes of your class? An extant garment wouldn't, in itself, tell you who was wearing it and under what circumstances, or whether certain aspects were considered marks of wealth or class in that culture. That can be determined only from correlating the garment with references in text (literature as well as documents) and also visuals (with careful consideration to distinguish, say, a realistic genre scene of "people at work" or "people on the street" vs. a "historical" scene of a Biblical episode). I guess it was the earlier reference to "accuracy" as a distinguisher of primary vs. secondary that concerned me most. Any source can be accurate or inaccurate to varying degrees, and that doesn't change whether it's primary or secondary. And while the average primary source is probably going to be more reliable a barometer of what was happening in the period than the average secondary source, some primary sources can be badly misleading or incomplete. "Primary" is not a synonym for "accurate" -- it means only that it reflects some direct contemporary connection to the experience of the thing you're studying. Sorry, I think I'm repeating myself. On yet another hand, I notice the reference to "mosaics and pottery" along with paintings in your quote. I wonder if some of the issue your professor was getting at is that you can't extrapolate from one medium to another -- say, just because a design motif appears in pottery doesn't mean it occurs in fabric as well. A pot that doesn't include a figurative drawing would be inapplicable to dress study, and would not be a primary source for dress even though it happens to coincide in time and place. Could that have been part of the distinction your professor was making? > The class is undergrad/grad combined (another fun time with budget > cuts). I'm a grad student and should get back to my paper on the > merovingian near environment. :) Now there's a hard period for finding primary sources in general :-P Sorry to distract you. You don't have to answer all the above if it would keep you from your work ... I'm just musing, and curious. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 21:01:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA421DOL017505 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:01:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41xicC014154; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:59:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41xh1e016966; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:59:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail4.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail4.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA41xe1f016949 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:59:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) hA41xelC018744 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:59:40 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.46.254]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:59:34 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List \(E-mail\)" Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:59:26 -0500 Message-ID: <032901c3a277$46ee82f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Been reading this thread with interest. I think y'all may have hit the nail on the head regarding regional/national body types informing regional styles. Try as I might, I love Tudor and Elizabethan but don't think it looks right on me, mostly because I am far too dark for the "ideal" seen in portraits. I wear sunscreen every day, but have an olive complexion and very angular features, possibly from some Native American in my background (the rest of my heritage is mostly English/Scottish). Not like I'm going to drop 16 century styles (hey, I'm sure there were swarthy girls somewhere wearing stays and farthingales!), but I'm curious: what would y'all suggest for someone who is all shoulders/bust with no hips or waist and an olive complexion and angular face (my hair is anachronistic for all historic time periods - I rely on hats or wigs). Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 21:04:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA424WOL017683 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:04:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA423scC014374; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:03:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA423r1e019296; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:03:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA423n1e019242 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26497 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:27:54 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:27:54 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > My ancestors seem to come directly from France, on both sides of the > family. Well... parts of the tree we know about, in any case. I don't > know anything about region or social standing. I probably have some > Amerindian blood somewhere along the line, supposedly it's almost > impossible not to have some around here, and since we did live with > the English for a long time, it's very possible that I have some > English blood as well. But I have never found anyone who looks like me > on a portrait. And combinations like this may pose a problem for people trying to find a period/place in which they look like the norm, because many of us melting-pot Americans have combinations of traits that would not have been routinely found in historic cultures, with their more limited gene pools. Someone might occasionally be noted as having an unusual feature, or a family might trace a line of some recurring trait (such as an unusual hair or eye color) from a single foreign ancestor, but individuals wouldn't be likely to have combinations of features from widely differing cultures the way we do in today's America. So we're heterogeneous not only as compared to one another, but (for many of us) within our own bodies as well. Speaking of which, just today my second grader just brought home his instruction sheet for a cultural project -- draw a picture of someone dressed as someone of "your ancestry." I'm a a second-generation Jew of Eastern European descent married to a WASP who's a combination of English and French Canadian blood. Our kids don't have a *single* ancestry, and I don't want to see my son have to pigeonhole the rich variety in his background into a single "heritage." I went through this two years ago with my older son, and had a few choice things to say about it then (on this list, as I recall). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 21:21:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA42LWOL017721 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:21:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42KqcC015289; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:20:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42Ko1e028196; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:20:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [63.251.216.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42Kl1e028146 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:20:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from megan2 (pcp06940299pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.19.18]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7935B15D25 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:20:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:23:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow. Thanks everyone for the pointers. Now to go look up some German stuff. I have Drea's Flemish book somewhere (moved this summer) so I can go to that with the hope I would look OK in it. And I'm doing Herjolfnes-style stuff for camping/hot weather wear anyway, so that's great. I just love this list!! So many interesting discussions! -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 21:27:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA42RwOL017733 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:27:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42RJcC015773; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:27:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42RF1e001703; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:27:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42RB1e001657 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:27:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26631 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:51:17 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:51:17 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair In-Reply-To: <20031104013438.68135.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, [iso-8859-1] Bella wrote: > So long as what we are discussing is a portrait, not a > biblical/allegorical painting, I think it is unwise to assume that the > painter has any other agenda than to faithfully depict the very rich > clothing of his/her very rich sitters - who would, I'm certain, wish > for as accurate a depiction of their wealth as possible. Actually, there's plenty of evidence that in some times/places, the painters were told to make the painting more sumptuous -- add jewels and fur and trim, or beef up what was there. Or a painter might combine elements from several different garments at the sitter's request. For instance, if you look at Holbein's sketches, you'll realize that he put in almost no clothing detail when he made his studies from the sitter; the faces are very detailed, but the clothes are sometimes no more than a few stray outlines. He then took those studies back to his studio and worked on the painting based on his sketches. Where he got the details of the clothing that eventually went into the painting is anyone's guess. Even more interesting, on some of the sketches, he's made side details of several trims or ornaments -- from different garments belonging to the owner? from something borrowed from someone wealthier? from his imagination? -- only one of which ends up in the final painting, no doubt after the purchaser has looked over the options and said "I like that one there, use it." There are also plenty of examples of manuscript paintings as well as panel paintings in which costume details were added at a later date, sometimes by a later owner, to make a costume more sumptuous or significant in particular way, or even to update the style (which can create a real mishmash). This is one reason that paintings should be considered accurate renditions of what people valued in dress, but not what specific people necessarily wore -- unless you have corroborative evidence. Fortunately we can get the latter in some cases. To balance the examples I gave above, there are wonderful examples in which we can match the clothing or accessories that appear in a painting with specific items that are mentioned in the sitter's will or wardrobe inventories. Or other cases in which we know (say, from letters or diaries) that the sitter loaned a particular outfit to a painter so the painter could put it on a stand (or another model) and paint it into the portrait at his leisure, without the purchaser having to sit for the entire duration of the process. And some painters clearly had studio-prop clothing that they used over and over again on models -- so we know the clothes existed, but we can also conclude that they weren't part of the sitter's wardrobe! This is less the case with portraits, though, and more common with genre scenes, religious scenes, story scenes, etc. This is why it's useful to gather as much information as you can about the provenance of the painting, the habits of the painter, etc. before making judgments about how a particular garment in a picture went together. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 21:31:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA42V2OL017744 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:31:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42UEcC015933; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:30:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42UD1e003169; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:30:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA42UA1e003123 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:30:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031104023010.26657.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:30:10 EST Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:30:10 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction Clothing") To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > My pet peeve is a perfect modern manicure, complete with polish.... > > oooh... yuck... This is an area that has me curious. In Complete Anachronist#53 (for the non SCA types that's an SCA publication - each issue is by one or a group of authors writing on one subject), the author states that during the Renaissance in Italy "the nails were painted or gilded". If anyone has more info on this I would appreciate knowing about it. :) ===== **************************************** Bella *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net *Courtesan Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ ***************************************** http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 21:31:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA42VwOL017748 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:31:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42VMcC016010; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:31:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42VM1e003722; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:31:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42VJ1e003703 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:31:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.63.24] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AEAEDA0228; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:27:58 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031104013438.68135.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031104013438.68135.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:33:22 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I said: > >> >We cannot take it for granted that people everywhere in the 1000 or >> >so years that the SCA period >> >covers thought exactly as the photography/media industry does today. > >Rima replied: > > > No question. But then again, someone just posted that amazing list >> of beauty products... I'm sure vanity was alive and well, despite >> its sinfulness... otherwise nobody would be wearing all that cool > > stuff we're working so hard to duplicate! ;-D > >Oh it sure was! Not everyone listened to the preachers. and they still don't! ;-D >But to expand that into a medieval/renaissance version of >airbrushing? I think that's a mistake, one that's too easy to make >in this day and age. Ok, so counterfeit stones were ok, but >counterfeit representation of people, in many cases royalty? I think >that would have gone against the grain of the renaissance humanist >principles, if nothing else. I don't suppose we'll ever know! > > I'm also sure that painters are painters, and they know about >> painting, not garments.... so there's no way of knowing how faithful > > their depiction of them might be. > >As Robin so eloquently mentioned in a previous post, the also *wore* >the garments, or at least >were witness to robing/disrobing and were familiar with the way the >garments of both men and women were put together. So long as what we >are discussing is a portrait, not a biblical/allegorical >painting, I think it is unwise to assume that the painter has any >other agenda than to faithfully >depict the very rich clothing of his/her very rich sitters - who >would, I'm certain, wish for as >accurate a depiction of their wealth as possible. Funny, I was speaking to someone today, a very VERY bright woman with a masters degree in literature, but who wasn't aware of whether or not the sweater she was wearing was knitted or woven. Just 'cause you drive a car, doesn't mean you know how to build one, or even draw it, even if it's your own, and you're an artist! ;-D > > Again, if I look at how dancers are most frequently portrayed in art >> to this very day, I would say, IMHO, that artists know NOTHING about >> it, or their vision is very poor.... so why should they do better >> with garments????? > > >That, perhaps, has more to do with the art movement during which >most of the dancers I see were >depicted - impressionism? Not really..... still happens to this very day.... > > This all leads me to believe that most painters paint their >> impression, > >Yes. It would. :) > > > not the literal thing they see, no matter how detailed >> the final product might seem. And, if painters are poets on canvas, >> then that is their duty - to convey their impression, as opposed to >> an accurate historical record.... as much as we might sometimes wish > > otherwise.... > >As I said, if portraits of the sixteenth century are what we are >discussing, then I am certain >that the artist's "impression" or "poetry" didn't come into it. Not >so for allegorical art (even >though dress details can be backed up in such art - such as the >location of lacing openings) or >biblical art, in which the artist has to use imagination as a >primary source of inspiration, and >clothing details are not so reliable. I would hope that even an artist who's inspired to be faithful would find other inspiration besides.... artists aren't photographers, and even when there was no such thing, I doubt they would WANT to be photographers given the chance.... OK, I'm totally guessing here, with no evidence whatsoever except for knowing how humans are (and often were), that a truly GREAT artist would be insulted on being complimented for capturing a likeness.... Rima I love having someone to argue this stuff with, even if we don't quite agree! ;-D _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 21:37:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA42bqOL017759 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:37:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42b4cC016383; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42b31e006936; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42av1e006846 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:36:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp118.pop1.net [209.102.125.168]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA32745 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:37:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp118.pop1.net [209.102.125.168] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <3FA7109C.9090303@pcez.com> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:36:12 -0800 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Thanks-Research X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings to one all, This is just a quick thank you to everyone who has discussed the subject of research. Since it is something that I love to do, but haven't perfected as yet. Luckily, I have the local help of Kat and Arlys, when I get stuck. And yes, Kat, classwork first! :) Now back to my classwork and read all of the stuff on research later. Thanks again, everyone. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 21:48:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA42mvOL017784 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:48:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42mDcC016980; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:48:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42mB1e012529; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:48:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42m81e012445 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:48:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA42m2N26482 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:48:02 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:54:04 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <26ED53FC-0E72-11D8-9769-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I think that this is a judgment call as to whether a painting can be considered primary or secondary. As someone said, if you had a painting depicting a garment, and had the actual garment, you could make the case for it being primary. As for Sumptuary laws, and other legal and economic documents, would be considered primary sources, if you had the actual documents (or an accurate translation). But citing an article about the documents would be a secondary source. I think this is one of those lovely grey areas that just depends on your point of view and how you are trained. :) Yes, I'm having a devil of a time finding information on Merovingian culture, which is one reason I picked it. lol I do like the obscure. Althea On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 07:16 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Althea Turner wrote: > >> The class is on the cultural and historical aspects of the near >> environment. (Due to budget cuts, apparel history has to share space >> with interiors..) It covers aspects of dress and the built >> environment. The prof acknowledged that the primary/secondary >> definition is rather fuzzy when it comes to paintings. So for the >> class, paintings/mosaics/pottery are secondary when it comes to dress. >> It is considered primary if you are studying >> paintings/mosaics/pottery. > > Interesting. It does sound as though this is more of a material culture > class; perhaps there's a different definition among material culture > specialists after all, though I hang out with textile people and > haven't > heard it before. A written document -- say, a guild record of import > regulations or loom widths or thread count for specific fabrics -- is > smack on as a primary source for textiles, even though it's not a > textile > itself. Paintings that show multiple textiles in use in interior > paintings > are indeed an observer's report, but I can't imagine anyone I know in > the > textile community saying they're "secondary" sources on the use of > textiles for interior design; if you take care to allow for the > allegorical, you can draw valuable information about things like known > fabric patterns or uses for fabrics in home decor. Ditto for, say, a > literary reference that describes someone sitting on a bench with > cushions > ... there's your primary source that cushions were known, and used on > benches, at least sometimes. And so on. > > But even within a material culture focus, if your class is on looking > at > "cultural and historical aspects" of dress, surely you're going to > have to > get a lot of your information from sources other than extant clothing > itself. How would your professor feel about, say, sumptuary laws? They > don't necessarily tell us what people were actually wearing (because > the > laws were often ignored), so they're "inaccurate" in that respect, but > they do tell us what types of clothing, furs, textiles, etc. were known > and available in a given place and time. That sounds like a primary > source > to me, meaning information coming directly from the time and place. But > it's not an extant garment. Does that make it a secondary source for > purposes of your class? An extant garment wouldn't, in itself, tell you > who was wearing it and under what circumstances, or whether certain > aspects were considered marks of wealth or class in that culture. That > can > be determined only from correlating the garment with references in text > (literature as well as documents) and also visuals (with careful > consideration to distinguish, say, a realistic genre scene of "people > at > work" or "people on the street" vs. a "historical" scene of a Biblical > episode). > > I guess it was the earlier reference to "accuracy" as a distinguisher > of > primary vs. secondary that concerned me most. Any source can be > accurate > or inaccurate to varying degrees, and that doesn't change whether it's > primary or secondary. And while the average primary source is probably > going to be more reliable a barometer of what was happening in the > period > than the average secondary source, some primary sources can be badly > misleading or incomplete. "Primary" is not a synonym for "accurate" -- > it > means only that it reflects some direct contemporary connection to the > experience of the thing you're studying. > > Sorry, I think I'm repeating myself. > > On yet another hand, I notice the reference to "mosaics and pottery" > along > with paintings in your quote. I wonder if some of the issue your > professor > was getting at is that you can't extrapolate from one medium to > another -- > say, just because a design motif appears in pottery doesn't mean it > occurs > in fabric as well. A pot that doesn't include a figurative drawing > would > be inapplicable to dress study, and would not be a primary source for > dress even though it happens to coincide in time and place. Could that > have been part of the distinction your professor was making? > >> The class is undergrad/grad combined (another fun time with budget >> cuts). I'm a grad student and should get back to my paper on the >> merovingian near environment. :) > > Now there's a hard period for finding primary sources in general :-P > Sorry to distract you. You don't have to answer all the above if it > would > keep you from your work ... I'm just musing, and curious. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 21:54:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA42sWOL017815 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:54:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42rrcC017262; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:53:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42rp1e015539; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:53:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA42rn1e015472 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:53:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.41 ([204.127.135.41]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2003110402534311100sk228e>; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:53:43 +0000 Received: from [67.9.29.20] by 204.127.135.41; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:53:42 +0000 From: sewinggoddess@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "AccurateReproduction Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:53:42 +0000 Message-Id: <110420030253.18855.3d37@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2V3aW5nZ29kZGVzc0BhdHQubmV0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can the photos of the step by step techniques focus closely on just hands and materials? Not show the costumes at all or maybe just shirt cuffs/ sleeves if anything during the "construction " photos? That would emphasize the techniques and not really detract from the focus of shoes. Then in the finished photos show the finished shoes with era appropriate outfits, if feasible, to give the overall impression. Just my impressions of what might solve the dilemma. Crissy > From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" > >....possibly have all the tiny little details right. If they were in period > >clothing, I'd expect them to be using only period tools and using those > >tools exactly in the period way, in a period setting.... I think I'd prefer > >someone dressed plainly in modern clothes. > > But they will be using only period tools and period techniques. That's the > point of the book :) > > Marc > > _________________________________________________________________ > Want to check if your PC is virus-infected? Get a FREE computer virus scan > online from McAfee. > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 22:08:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA438UOL017950 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:08:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4382cC018136; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4381te022710; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA437xtf022691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:07:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.8/Submit) id hA437x4Y022690 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:07:59 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:07:59 -0700 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume Message-ID: <20031104030759.GC13362@net.indra.com> References: <032901c3a277$46ee82f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <032901c3a277$46ee82f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > what would y'all suggest for someone who is all shoulders/bust with no hips > or waist and an olive complexion and angular face (my hair is anachronistic > for all historic time periods - I rely on hats or wigs). > Allison T. Sounds perfect for Italian Ren! Here's a nice page: http://pweb.jps.net/~lynnmcm/miditalian.html ...eliz -- "How old would you be if you didn't know how old you were?" -Satchel Page _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 22:09:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA439YOL017984 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:09:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA438kcC018208; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:08:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA438jte023100; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:08:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA438Wte023024 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:08:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 1908 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Nov 2003 03:08:17 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.196391 secs); 04 Nov 2003 03:08:17 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.196391 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 03:08:17 -0000 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:08:26 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume In-Reply-To: <032901c3a277$46ee82f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Message-ID: <20031103220540.K60285-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You may be able to pull off Slavic or Russian pretty well. I know the Saami of Finland and through them many Finns and Scandinavians in general share some genetic similarities with other polar American Indian groups. Perhaps Mongolian, or some other central asian people? Or Greek? If you love 16th century, perhaps you can experiment with some Spanish or Portugese styles. Drea On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, A.Thurman wrote: > Been reading this thread with interest. I think y'all may have hit the nail > on the head regarding regional/national body types informing regional > styles. > > Try as I might, I love Tudor and Elizabethan but don't think it looks right > on me, mostly because I am far too dark for the "ideal" seen in portraits. I > wear sunscreen every day, but have an olive complexion and very angular > features, possibly from some Native American in my background (the rest of > my heritage is mostly English/Scottish). > > Not like I'm going to drop 16 century styles (hey, I'm sure there were > swarthy girls somewhere wearing stays and farthingales!), but I'm curious: > what would y'all suggest for someone who is all shoulders/bust with no hips > or waist and an olive complexion and angular face (my hair is anachronistic > for all historic time periods - I rely on hats or wigs). > > Allison T. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 22:19:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA43JcOL018064 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:19:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA43IwcC018813; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:18:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA43Iute028290; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:18:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20207.mail.yahoo.com (web20207.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA43Iqte028241 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:18:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031104031852.68797.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:18:52 EST Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:18:52 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Rima wrote: > >I said: > Funny, I was speaking to someone today, a very VERY bright woman with > a masters degree in literature, but who wasn't aware of whether or > not the sweater she was wearing was knitted or woven. Just 'cause > you drive a car, doesn't mean you know how to build one, or even draw > it, even if it's your own, and you're an artist! ;-D That does not relate to whether a Renaissance artist could paint a dress accurately. Textiles aren't the be-all and end-all of fortune-making industries these days. Not so in the Renaissance. Textiles and spices. A car is a mechanical thing. Not all artists are adept at drawing cars. Or clothing for that matter. But Renaissance portrait artists were. They were the experts in their field, just as your masters in literature has her speciality. > > > Again, if I look at how dancers are most frequently portrayed in art > >> to this very day, I would say, IMHO, that artists know NOTHING about > >> it, or their vision is very poor.... so why should they do better > >> with garments????? > > > > > >That, perhaps, has more to do with the art movement during which > >most of the dancers I see were > >depicted - impressionism? > > Not really..... still happens to this very day.... Yes, to some extent, but then other movements, other means of expression in art have come about. This does not mean that the same applied to the 16th century. We must remember that the Renaissance was an ideal the brought about changes - the human as master of his/her destiny. This is why portraiture came about. In such a climate the human being began to be depicted with ever increasing levels of realism. > I would hope that even an artist who's inspired to be faithful would > find other inspiration besides.... Painting in general is an area where inspiration is needed, yes. Portraiture on the other hand does not require inspiration. It merely requires a good eye for detail and an ability with the human form. > artists aren't photographers, In the sixteenth century they were. That was the closest thing to photography. > and even when there was no such thing, I doubt they would WANT to be > photographers given the chance.... > > OK, I'm totally guessing here, with no evidence whatsoever except for > knowing how humans are (and often were), that a truly GREAT artist > would be insulted on being complimented for capturing a likeness.... That's probably because there is a modern mind set regarding photography and art that says that the "art" is the great thing, so that we see "portraits" of greats depicted as barely discernible people, or otherwise distorted by today's artistic theory, sometimes to great acclaim, the pinnacle of which is the Archibald Prize. There is a tendency see the issue through the fog of movements in art that have occured since the period under discussion. But that was not the way things were in the Renaissance. I doubt that Titian, the greatest Venetian painter ever, was ever insulted by being asked to Rome to paint Emperor Charles V on horseback. Or that Sofonisba Anguissola was insulted to be invited to paint the portraits of, and live with, the Spanish Royal family. One has to understand that narrative painting and portraiture were two different things in the Renaissance, and both were equally prized, albeit for different reasons. > I love having someone to argue this stuff with, even if we don't > quite agree! ;-D I always enjoy a debate if it's well argued and scholarly. :) ===== **************************************** Bella *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net *Courtesan Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ ***************************************** http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 22:43:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA43h1OL018299 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:43:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA43g5cC020319; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:42:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA43g3te009855; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:42:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA43g1te009833 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-45-144.jps.net ([209.165.45.144] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AGs4t-0002KC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:42:00 -0800 Message-ID: <001701c3a286$4c0020a0$902da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:46:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: [TheRenTailor] Update from the estate of Janet Arnold X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hA43h1OL018299 Status: RO thought you folks would be interested! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: leycestershyre To: TheRenaissanceTailor@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 4:38 PM Subject: [TheRenTailor] Update from the estate of Janet Arnold Greetings, For those of you with an interest in the works of the late great British costume historian, Janet Arnold, I offer the following news. I have today, received a letter from Santina M. Levey, (the executor of Janet Arnold's estate) updating me on the work that both she and Millie Jaffe' have been conducting, to assemble one last final volume in the "Patterns of Fashion" series. Those of you, who have followed my previous posts, will remember that Ms. Levey and Mrs. Jaffe' have been working with previously unpublished research materials of Ms. Arnold's, relating to fair linen - coifs, shirts, shifts, ruffs, collars, etc. which were left as part of the estate. Originally, they had hoped to be ready for a publication date of late 2003 or early 2004. Ms. Levey informs me that unfortunately due to "personal reasons", there will be at least a one year delay until the new volume is published. She goes on to say the the new volume will be published by Macmillan as part of the existing series of "Patterns of Fashion", but that we should not expect to see it until late 2004 or early 2005. Please free to forward to other interested parties or lists, as desired. In service to Crown and Coronet, yours faithful and ever assured, HL Eleanor of Leycestershyre, AoA, JdL, etc Apprentice to Mistress Sine Gillian MacDonald, OL "Purpure a Phoenix Or rising from Flames Gules, on a Chief Or three Suns in Splendour Purpure" Head of House Crone Henge Loquora unica veritatis Yahoo! Groups Sponsor This egroup is based on the website http://www.vertetsable.com, more commonly known as The Renaissance Tailor; Recreating 16th and 17th Century Clothing. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TheRenaissanceTailor-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 22:53:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA43rLOL018391 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:53:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA43qjcC020938; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:52:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA43qite015156; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:52:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f106.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA43qfte015093 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:52:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:52:36 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.46 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:52:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.46] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:52:35 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2003 03:52:36.0385 (UTC) FILETIME=[15A3D910:01C3A287] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Someone asked me about this distinction at KWCS a few weeks ago, and what >I told her was this: I have heard this particular sort of distinction >between primary and secondary and tertiary ONLY from re-enactors >(particularly SCA people). I have never heard it used in this way by >academic historians. And I suspect that if you said to a professional >historian that a painting from the 15th century is *not* a primary source >for dress of the 15th century, you would get a look of stark amazement, >because your listener would conclude you have no idea what the terms mean. >And that would go double if you said that when you're working from a photo >of the painting, that makes it a tertiary source. I'm just trying to catch up on today's mail -- Actually this is exactly how I was taught the progression goes in academics. Of course, my initial training was in anthropology and if you try to argue that a copy is the same as the original you'll get stared at. This is why back-tracking sources is such a big thing for me, the closer I can get to the original items the better. I've seen far too many cases where a painting or engraving leaves out crucial details that an actual garment might indicate. A painting is a description of an original, not the original itself. >history of that period/place, as far as historians are concerned. The fact >that the image is filtered through the artist's mind and hand does not >change the primary-ness of the source, though it does add an interpretive >layer that we need to take into account as we analyze and apply the >source. That interpretative layer is the same thing that pushes an event to a description, rather than it being the event itself. >But the whole idea of using "primary" and "secondary" to distinguish >degrees of removal from the artifact, for sources still within the same >time-place context, just leaves me scratching my head. This redefinition >of terminology seems to have become pervasive in SCA circles among people >who really, truly want to promote good use of sources. In addition to >Cynthia's article and Tasha's post, I see the same thing on Kass's site at >http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/research.html , under >"Types of Sources." All three of these ladies known for doing good >research, and all three seem to have picked up this same set of new >distinctions, so clearly these ideas are getting a lot of play out there >in re-enactment circles. I can only guess that this originated in a >good-faith attempt to teach people to find and use the best sources, and >somehow developed into a far-too-literal use of the conventional terms. I think you'll find it in archaeology and anthropology, not just the SCA. >I would be very interested in hearing from some of the other people on the >list who work in academic areas. I won't rule out that maybe there's been >some huge terminology change that I've somehow missed in the years that >I've been active in the field. It's also quite possible that there's always been a difference in interpretation of those terms. >Even so, I think that the literalmindedness that is leading some people to >say that only the artifact is "primary" threatens to reinforce the >tunnelvision I see in some people who do reenactment-based research, who >focus strictly on "how is this thing made" without ever becoming aware of >such issues as "in what social context would it have been worn," or "what >messages would wearing this item have sent to people of the time," or >"what are the economic factors involved in the choice of techniques and >materials"... I see... Marc _________________________________________________________________ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 22:57:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA43vMOL018438 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:57:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA43ulcC021207; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:56:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA43ukYX017064; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:56:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20208.mail.yahoo.com (web20208.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA43uiYX017040 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:56:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031104035644.7787.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:56:44 EST Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:56:44 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > Actually, there's plenty of evidence that in some times/places, the > painters were told to make the painting more sumptuous -- add jewels and > fur and trim, or beef up what was there. Or a painter might combine > elements from several different garments at the sitter's request. I have seen no such evidence, but that's not insurmountably relevant. What is relevant is that, what evidence there is should not be taken out of context. For one thing, I don't see how we could know if the artist followed the advice/request or not. For another, we don't (or at least I don't) know if the evidence points to that being a regular occurance, a universal truth, or just something that occured a handful of times, for, say, a miniature portrait, where it's the face that's important. Another issue is "which times and places?" The danger being that generalisations are made about the accuracy/non-accuracy of portraits, when the answer is as varying as the dates and locations of the portraits, artists and sitters themselves. Also, "beefing up" a portrait does not indicate that the artist invented jewels that were not in existance, and on the very garment in question, or that the fur did not exist on other items of clothing. It is the details that make up the whole. Most of us in the SCA take the details of any given garment in a portrait and know that 1. those details (fur, jewels, fabric type) existed, and 2. they existed in the time and place in which the portrait was painted and were used in the manner in which they were painted, and 3. If the details were added by request then they are there because someone else had them on their clothing, and the sitter was trying to "keep up with the Joneses". None of this detracts from the degree of usefulness of a portrait, which is a secondary source, but a very useful one. None of the above is relevant unless a specific garment is being re-created. Yes, text sources that back up a particular portrait are good, very good, but they have their limitations, as well as being few and far between. I feel it is dangerous and misleading to generalise about portraiture and artist's methods as much as it is to do so about garment construction. ===== **************************************** Bella *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net *Courtesan Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ ***************************************** http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 23:11:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA44B3OL018738 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:11:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44AKcC021996; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:10:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44AJYX023894; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:10:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f44.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44AFYX023793 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:10:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:10:10 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.46 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:10:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.46] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:10:10 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2003 04:10:10.0651 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A0812B0:01C3A289] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Wierd question (was link: "Accurate Reproduction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I retract the question. Thank you all for your responses. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 23:30:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA44UZOL018793 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:30:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44TqcC023253; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:29:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44ToYX003762; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:29:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44TkYX003676 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:29:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 705F0425CE for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:34:36 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FA72BD1.8080903@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:32:17 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] has anyone seen this book? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO _Historical Fashion in Detail: the 17th and 18th Centuries_ by Avril Hart, Susan North. http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1851772588/thecostumersmani/026-7454127-4038009#product-details Just curious to see if anybody has comments about it. It might go on my wish list. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 23:39:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA44dEOL018934 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:39:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44cacC023911; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:38:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44cZYX009020; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:38:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA44cWYX008891 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:38:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCrpadtWO52CL02CaJbCuA67acZiF8ncubg==">; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:37:29 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JD47J8WF; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:37:29 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:31:11 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] has anyone seen this book? Message-ID: <20031103.223112.-165279251.5.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-14,17-34 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do not hesitate. Do not pause. Buy that book. It has all the pictures that you'd take if you had access to this stuff.....and studio lighting.....and a good close-up camera.....and someone along to do scale pattern drawings....Oh just buy it!!!! Karen On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:32:17 -0600 Dawn writes: > _Historical Fashion in Detail: the 17th and 18th Centuries_ by Avril > > Hart, Susan North. > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1851772588/thecostumersmani/026- 7454127-4038009#product-details > > > Just curious to see if anybody has comments about it. It might go on > my > wish list. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 23:46:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA44kJOL018952 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:46:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44jZcC024538; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:45:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44jXYX012649; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:45:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44jVYX012616 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:45:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNT005HX97TF1@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:45:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:45:46 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] has anyone seen this book? In-reply-to: <3FA72BD1.8080903@reddawn.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031103203724.00b17f00@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:32 PM 11/3/2003 -0600, you wrote: >_Historical Fashion in Detail: the 17th and 18th Centuries_ by Avril Hart, >Susan North. > >http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1851772588/thecostumersmani/026-7454127-4038009#product-details > > >Just curious to see if anybody has comments about it. It might go on my >wish list. > > > >Dawn Hi Dawn, I have a copy of the book myself. I love the photos in it, lots of close up details. Biggest issue I have is that the book has images of garments clumped in each chapter, like "Stitching, Seams, Quilting and Cording", Buttons, Trimmings, "Applied Decoration", etc. What bothers me is that you don't get the overall image of a garment, but a lot of close up fragments of a garment. It would have been nice to see an overall image as well. The book also provides a basic sketch of each garment, even if the original garment is missing a section. But I love the book. Not my time period, but the details just get me drooling every time I look at the book. Close ups of the embroideries are just to die for. All in wonderful full color large images the size of the book itself. In fact, the left page is the description, and the right page is the full image, and it is larger than 8.5 x 11. I don't have my ruler handy or I would measure it right now. Anyway, I think it was worth the full price I paid when it first came out. I love it. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 3 23:56:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA44u2OL018996 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:56:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44tGcC025238; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:55:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44tFIa017309; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA44tBIb017290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:55:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA44tnOS022977 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:55:49 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA44tn8N022975 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:55:49 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] has anyone seen this book? Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:55:49 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031103.223112.-165279251.5.Seamstrix@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20031103.223112.-165279251.5.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311032355.49124.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 03 November 2003 11:31 pm, seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > Do not hesitate. Do not pause. Buy that book. It has all the pictures > that you'd take if you had access to this stuff.....and studio > lighting.....and a good close-up camera.....and someone along to do scale > pattern drawings....Oh just buy it!!!! I own a used copy, and here's my two cents.... It's worth having. It has amazing extreme close up full color photos of amazing costume details from 17th and 18th c originals--buttons, embroidery, ribbons, ruchings, etc. What it doesn't have is full-color photos of the *entire* garment. It has detailed closeups of portions, but only black and white outline sketches of the garment as a whole. If you can get the paperback version (which I think is $29.99 new) buy it. If you can't, go for the hardback edition only if you can get it for paperback prices, or if your "period" includes the 17th and/or 18th centuries. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 00:06:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA456AOL019094 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:06:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA455VcC025859; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:05:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA455UIa022218; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:05:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA455RIa022195 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:05:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27292 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:29:34 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:29:34 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Marc Carlson wrote: > >academic historians. And I suspect that if you said to a professional > >historian that a painting from the 15th century is *not* a primary source > >for dress of the 15th century, you would get a look of stark amazement, > >because your listener would conclude you have no idea what the terms mean. > >And that would go double if you said that when you're working from a photo > >of the painting, that makes it a tertiary source. > > Actually this is exactly how I was taught the progression goes in > academics. Of course, my initial training was in anthropology and if > you try to argue that a copy is the same as the original you'll get > stared at. Um, just in case that wasn't clear -- I wouldn't argue (or expect anyone to argue) that a photo of an artwork is the same as the original. But for most of us who deal with vast numbers of, say, manuscript paintings as examples, it's expected that we're usually working from reproductions as we compare and classify various works. In particular cases it may become important for us to examine the original artwork; there's always the risk that the particular reproduction I use might be missing some nuances of shading or brushstroke or coloring that might reveal a telling detail. So, if I'm going to analyze the seams in Magdalen's dress in van der Weyden's Deposition, I'd ideally go to Madrid and look at the real thing (I did, and it made a difference!). But if I'm talking about the the content of an art work as a source for, say, class implications of a fashion, or circumstances under which a fashion might have been worn, or ways that someone might arrange clothing in wear, or whether a given style was known in a particular century, a reproduction probably will tell me as much as I need to know. And because I'm basing my interpretation, in such a case, on the content of the painting itself, no historian would say that the painting is a primary source if I stand in front of it but suddenly becomes a secondary source if I work from a photographic reproduction. If I were working from someone's *drawing* of the painting, *that's* a secondary source. In the same way, I can work from a microfiche of a manuscript, and I'm still dealing with the content of the manuscript itself -- the words on the paper -- and it's still a primary source even if I've never touched the original pages. > This is why back-tracking sources is such a big thing for me, the > closer I can get to the original items the better. I've seen far too > many cases where a painting or engraving leaves out crucial details > that an actual garment might indicate. A painting is a description of > an original, not the original itself. Hmm. I think we're bringing in a whole 'nother issue here. It sounds like you're assuming we're talking about studying some "original" -- say, a specific person's real garment -- that's being depicted in a painting. Here's where I think we really are seeing a difference between archaeology (or material culture) and, say, social history (which is probably a better general classification for "history of dress" as I study it). A painting from the period gives me original, primary information about what a fashion means to some of the people who had first-hand acquaintance with that fashion. I look at the painting for what it tells me about the nature of the fashion -- when and how it was worn, how it looked to observers, who it was associated with -- but I'm not expecting to get details of a particular single garment that may or may not have existed. If you look at Gaston Phoebus's Book of the Hunt, you'll see loads of useful views of clothing from many angles, in a range of variations on a few basic styles from a single time/place context. I seriously doubt every, or even any, of those images represent a specific garment that existed on some specific real person, and that's fine for me, because I'm not trying to study such an individual garment; I'm studying the fashion as a whole. So what we're getting here is a visual description of how clothing of this general style behaves in wear, presented by someone who has seen (and likely worn) clothing of this style in life. Engravings may be another matter. An engraving (or woodcut) that's made in the period of the fashion I'm studying is, for my purposes, as much of a work of art as any other artwork in any other medium from the same period: The engraver has a personal experience of the fashion he is depicting. And the accuracy of the art work will have limitations imposed by the medium. But usually when I think of engravings, I think of an engraver's reproduction of another work of art, as you see in many 18th and 19th century books that reproduce medieval art via the only means that was available at that time. In that case the engraving is a redrawing of an artwork, and is a secondary source of the original artwork. If that's what you're referring to, then in such cases, yes, back-tracking sources is essential -- I wouldn't work from an engraving if I can see the art work or artifact it was based on. But I also wouldn't call such an engraving a primary source. (I dealt with some of these issues about changes that occur in copying in the lecture on Victorian influence on costume study I gave in Denver a couple of weeks ago.) Of course art works may leave out crucial details that an actual garment might indicate. At the same time, garments leave out crucial information about social context, economics, outfit combinations, manner of wear, etc. that paintings (and documents and other sources) will indicate. As an historian of dress, I need *all* that information to make sense of what was happening. And all of it ranks as primary for this kind of study. > I think you'll find it in archaeology and anthropology, not just the SCA. > ... > It's also quite possible that there's always been a difference in > interpretation of those terms. I agree that this is likely. If that's so, it would make a lot of sense out of the two sets of definitions we're hearing on this thread. (And I've never had training in archaeology, so I would not have recognized the different treatment of these terms as used by archaeologists.) So as to which definition to use, the question then becomes, what sort of research is an individual doing? This issue on this thread came out of the question of "what counts as a primary source for documentation." I guess to answer that, we have to determine what exactly someone is documenting. Perhaps for purposes of documenting a reconstruction of a known extant garment, the "archaeological" set of definitions is the right one, and anything less than the actual garment is a secondary source. This gets more troublesome, though, when you're documenting a *hypothesized* garment -- e.g. an example of a known fashion, where you've made creative decisions in combining particular textiles, ornamentation, accessories, cutting methods, etc., in a manner that you hope is logical to the period. That presumably requires some understanding of the context of the fashion, the circumstances in which it would have been worn, the fabrics available and affordable to someone who would have worn it, and much more. And that's more on the "social history" line. My work is broader than reconstruction; I tend to look at development and influence of styles and their place in the aesthetic and economic context of a period. This sort of analysis is, I suppose, more than is normally expected of someone documenting a costume. Still, if the work is as much social/economic/art history as it is material culture, there's a good argument for using the definitions of primary sources from that end of the research spectrum. Thanks, Marc, for clarifying my hunch that there might be a difference in definitions of terminology in different fields -- one materials-based, one events-based. Since both avenues overlap a lot in dress history, I expect I will find this a useful thing to be aware of as I deal with people who come from one direction or another. For more practical purposes, it doesn't really matter what you call your sources -- primary, secondary, tertiary, etc. What matters is that you get as close as you can to the original material, and that you learn how to recognize and compensate for the inherent inaccuracies in *every* type of source. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 00:32:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA45VxOL019294 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:31:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA45VJcC027158; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:31:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA45VIIa004860; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:31:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA45VFIa004835 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:31:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27414 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:55:22 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:55:22 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair In-Reply-To: <20031104035644.7787.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wrote, in response to some previous statements that suggested portraits were most likely to be accurate representations: > > Actually, there's plenty of evidence that in some times/places, the > > painters were told to make the painting more sumptuous -- add jewels and > > fur and trim, or beef up what was there. Or a painter might combine > > elements from several different garments at the sitter's request. Bella responded, in part: > I have seen no such evidence, but that's not insurmountably relevant. > What is relevant is that, what evidence there is should not be taken > out of context. For one thing, I don't see how we could know if the > artist followed the advice/request or not. For another, we don't (or > at least I don't) know if the evidence points to that being a regular > occurance, a universal truth, or just something that occured a handful > of times, for, say, a miniature portrait, where it's the face that's > important. Another issue is "which times and places?" The danger being > that generalisations are made about the accuracy/non-accuracy of > portraits, when the answer is as varying as the dates and locations of > the portraits, artists and sitters themselves. That was exactly my point, when I wrote "in some times/places" above. The original statement I was responding to could have been read as a blanket generalization that portraits were reliable representations of life. I wanted to temper that generalization with a warning that this all depends on such matters as the expectations and purpose of portraiture in a given time/place context as well as the arrangement between an individual and an artist. The purpose of my counterexamples (which included several periods, several media, and cases in which we know portraits to be accurate as well as cases in which we know that they weren't) was to make clear that there is no universal rule, and that the researcher needs to become familiar with the artistic approaches in his/her specific period of interest, as well as the provenance and circumstances of the specific art work, if possible. > It is the details that make up the whole. Most of us in the SCA take > the details of any given garment in a portrait and know that 1. those > details (fur, jewels, fabric type) existed, and 2. they existed in the > time and place in which the portrait was painted and were used in the > manner in which they were painted, and 3. If the details were added by > request then they are there because someone else had them on their > clothing, and the sitter was trying to "keep up with the Joneses". These assumptions are safe up to a point, and safer in some periods than in others. But sometimes they'll lead you astray. Not all portraiture had the purpose of representing a wealthy person in his/her finery (or desired finery). There are some media/times/places/circumstances in which a person might be presented deliberately in clothing of royalty or history or allegory or fancy dress or religious penance or political affiliation. Often the symbolic use of clothing elements in these portraits goes completely past the modern observer. (It is somewhere between amusing and frightening to see just how far afield an art historian who does not have costume knowledge can go in making statements about clothing based on a painting that was never meant to represent reality, and would have been understood as such by viewers of the time.) Consider the famous portrait of George Washington in a toga ... at least most of us can look at that today and know it was symbolic, but it's harder for moderns to recognize similar cases in more distant periods, when everything in the picture looks plausibly "old." It's even harder to recognize a particular symbolic item that the painter includes to make a statement about the sitter but is not something the sitter would ever have worn in life. There's a lot of artistic "code" out there, more developed in some periods of portraiture than others. > I feel it is dangerous and misleading to generalise about portraiture > and artist's methods as much as it is to do so about garment > construction. Exactly my point. It's important not to graft the values and artistic approaches of one period onto another because it's all "portraiture." Purposes of portraits varied extensively over the centuries. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 01:01:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA461QOL019596 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 01:01:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA460dcC028750; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:00:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA460bAw017812; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:00:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA460YAx017779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:00:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA4676sp032698 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:07:07 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] hair Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:01:14 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20031103.144551.1652.0.Cley@juno.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ahh... I can see it now. A lovely caul to cover your hair, a feather Pizza hat (Ilaria will have to help with that one) and a puffed and slashed bumble bee Cranach style. All we will need is to find someone to donate a nice "used" head for you to be Judith :-) Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Cynthia J Ley > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:36 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Cc: Cley@juno.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair > > > Hi everyone. > > > Regarding traction alopecia: > > > A sort of 'which came first, the baldness or the hennin?' > > > Kat writes: > > > I don't think we'll ever know for sure how it started. However, I > > suspect that one of the reasons for the changes to a more and more > > extreme look is that form followed function. > > I'd heard that the hennin style may have been a fashion result of the > Plague--many of those who survived suffered hair loss. Is this a medieval > urban myth? > > One of these days I promise to let Regina talk me into dressing medieval > German. My genetic heritage really shows, but I so love English > history..... ;) > > Arlys > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 01:27:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA46RoOL019774 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 01:27:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA46RDcC000177; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:27:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA46RBAw029339; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:27:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA46R8Ax029321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:27:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA46Xesp028146 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:33:41 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th century prayer books Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:27:48 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rima, A true slit your wrists/sell your firstborn child moment. Regina > OK, HURT ME! > > About 15 years ago, I was in a very reputable antique book store in > NY, and actually held in my hand a book of hours that was purported > to belong to Elizabeth. They wanted something like $900 for it. > > About 4X5 inches, light color leather cover, tooling with remnants of > gold leaf... in pretty good condition for such an old book. > Naturally, I didn't dare open it without gloves....... > > That was $900 I didn't have in my life at the time, so I was forced > to put it down (weeping...) > > If, in your travels, you come across such a book, LET ME KNOW. I > won't make that same mistake again! > > Rima > *sniffle* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 01:38:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA46c7OL019800 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 01:38:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA46bPcC000547; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:37:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA46bNAw003685; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:37:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f73.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA46bKAw003625 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:37:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:37:15 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.87 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:37:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.87] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:37:14 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2003 06:37:15.0632 (UTC) FILETIME=[16214F00:01C3A29E] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I’m sorry if the following is a little rambly, but I’m fighting a bug, and so am a bit distracted. From: Robin >Um, just in case that wasn't clear -- I wouldn't argue (or expect anyone >to argue) that a photo of an artwork is the same as the original. But for >most of us who deal with vast numbers of, say, manuscript paintings as >examples, it's expected that we're usually working from reproductions as >we compare and classify various works. In particular cases it may become >important for us to examine the original artwork; there's always the risk >that the particular reproduction I use might be missing some nuances of >shading or brushstroke or coloring that might reveal a telling detail… I don’t have a problem with this. I think the difficulties with the terms are based on what’s being studied and why. For example, to remove this from clothing for an instant, when this topic has arisen on other lists and newsgroups I’ve been in, the question has come up about things like translations and transcriptions of documentary sources. If I use, say, a transcription of a medieval document found in a reputable source such as the Early English Text Society volumes – is that a primary source? I’d say not, since in transcribing a document, there may be areas where the transcriber has had to make some decisions about a word or a letter used. By the same token a translation is certainly not a primary source, since I am dealing with the translator’s interpretation of the content. >…need to know. And because I'm basing my interpretation, in such a case, on >the content of the painting itself, no historian would say that the >painting is a primary source if I stand in front of it but suddenly >becomes a secondary source if I work from a photographic reproduction. Even though content is lost in the photographic process. >I were working from someone's *drawing* of the painting, *that's* a >secondary source. In the same way, I can work from a microfiche of a >manuscript, and I'm still dealing with the content of the manuscript >itself -- the words on the paper -- and it's still a primary source even >if I've never touched the original pages. I think it would be debatable – there are still details that can be lost in the photographic process, more so when the colors are lost in the black and white reproduction of the fiche. For example, in back tracking one of the shoe drawings from Fairholt I wound up looking at black and white photos, then later a color facsimile of the manuscript in question (Cott. MS Nero C IV) and that gave me a clue as to why the shoe was drawn a particular way that only showed up in the color reproduction of folio 3. I can only wonder what other details didn’t even make it into that reproduction, and would need to examine the original to discover (which is what Fairholt based his drawing on). I consider those reproductions secondary sources because of this. >>This is why back-tracking sources is such a big thing for me, the >>closer I can get to the original items the better. I've seen far too >>many cases where a painting or engraving leaves out crucial details >>that an actual garment might indicate. A painting is a description of >>an original, not the original itself. >Hmm. I think we're bringing in a whole 'nother issue here. It sounds like >you're assuming we're talking about studying some "original" -- say, a >specific person's real garment -- that's being depicted in a painting. But isn’t that what we are doing? You may have noticed the arguments that the artists are painting what they are seeing, which is why those paintings are as good as photographs? The assumption seems to be that those paintings are OF real garments. Certainly, if all you are doing is looking at the fashion concepts, then sure, paintings are great. How many times though have you seen someone talking about reproducing a specific garment from a particular painting as though that garment were a real garment, as depicted in such a painting.? >Here's where I think we really are seeing a difference between archaeology >(or material culture) and, say, social history (which is probably a better >general classification for "history of dress" as I study it). A painting >from the period gives me original, primary information about what a >fashion means to some of the people who had first-hand acquaintance with >that fashion… And from that perspective, I don’t have a problem looking at paintings as being equivalent to, say, a Roll or an inventory. Because in that case you aren’t looking at A painting or manuscript, you are looking at a number of paintings to find corroborations between them. That’s a completely appropriate use for paintings as “primary” sources. >…an individual garment; I'm studying the fashion as a whole. So what we're >getting here is a visual description of how clothing of this general style >behaves in wear, presented by someone who has seen (and likely worn) >clothing of this style in life. That’s what you are getting at :) I daresay (based on my subjective observations of how and where these discussions crop up) that most of the folks who are researching historical garments are seeing those paintings as representations of (once) extant garments. And I believe it is from this perspective that descriptions of “Sources” such as appear on Cynthia’s page (and even messages I’ve written in the past) have come about. >Engravings may be another matter. An engraving (or woodcut) that's made >in the period of the fashion I'm studying is, for my purposes, as much of a >work of art as any other artwork in any other medium from the same period: Absolutely. Although I was really referring to things like memorial brasses. >Of course art works may leave out crucial details that an actual garment >might indicate. At the same time, garments leave out crucial information >about social context, economics, outfit combinations, manner of wear, etc. >that paintings (and documents and other sources) will indicate. As an >historian of dress, I need *all* that information to make sense of what >was happening. And all of it ranks as primary for this kind of study. And I don’t have a problem with that. >I agree that this is likely. If that's so, it would make a lot of sense >out of the two sets of definitions we're hearing on this thread. (And I've >never had training in archaeology, so I would not have recognized the >different treatment of these terms as used by archaeologists.) This is a long standing difficulty in interdisciplinary use of jargon :) >So as to which definition to use, the question then becomes, what sort of >research is an individual doing? This issue on this thread came out of the >question of "what counts as a primary source for documentation." I guess >to answer that, we have to determine what exactly someone is documenting. >Perhaps for purposes of documenting a reconstruction of a known extant >garment, the "archaeological" set of definitions is the right one, and >anything less than the actual garment is a secondary source. This gets >more troublesome, though, when you're documenting a *hypothesized* > >garment… Yup. For example, I find your theories on the Gothic Fitted Dress to be valid and well supported. But until we find some extant garments that match your hypothesis, your reconstruction is speculative (a term I do not use in a derogatory manner). By the same token, the book I’m working on currently is (hopefully) focusing on the evolution of a process (shoemaking in the Middle Ages) as presented by the archaeology, experimental reconstructions, and the very limited source materials such as literature and artwork – in that order. While there will be some speculation, mostly this will be with regard to procedures that are not documented from the Middle Ages, but are traditional in shoemaking, and they will be described as “speculative” and “traditional”. While I am planning on covering some of the social context, the record is far too sparse to go too deeply into that. >Thanks, Marc, for clarifying my hunch that there might be a difference in >definitions of terminology in different fields -- one materials-based, one >events-based. Since both avenues overlap a lot in dress history, I expect >I will find this a useful thing to be aware of as I deal with people who >come from one direction or another. My pleasure. I don’t think that either definition is “wrong”, they are just different. >For more practical purposes, it doesn't really matter what you call your >sources -- primary, secondary, tertiary, etc. What matters is that you get >as close as you can to the original material, and that you learn how to >recognize and compensate for the inherent inaccuracies in *every* type of >source. Yes please. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 02:26:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA47Q6OL029326 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:26:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA47PJcC002855; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:25:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA47PI8n024306; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:25:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA47PF8n024246 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:25:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA47Z1jp024435 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:35:01 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA753B8.3090504@misc.com> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:22:32 -0800 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Girl with a Pearl Earring References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the advance notice!!! Nice site - costumes (garb??) look very good from this distance but the plot sounds a bit melodramatic!!! But, Colin Firth as Vermeer has got _my_ attention. Theresa Eacker Rima wrote: > > Speaking of paintings, movies, and such, have you guys seen the > trailers for this?????? > > OHMIGOD > > Rima > http://www.girlwithapearlearringmovie.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 03:53:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA48rSOL026715 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:53:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA48qTcC005802; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 01:52:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA48qQ3X001063; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 01:52:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA48qM3X001034 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 01:52:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA00718 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:16:04 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:16:03 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id hA48qM3X001034 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, this has been an exciting thread. I think we actually broke some new ground here, and made some useful connections. I'll make some very minor observations on your post, with the understanding that overall, it's clear we agree on the basics -- that the terminology on "primary sources" is apparently different between different branches of research, reflecting the differences in the focus and goals of those branches. But the ultimate takeaway point is the same -- seek sources as close as you can to your object of research, and recognize that all sources, regardless of what you call them, have inherent limitations. Now, some nonessential musings, mostly continuing to define the differences in the two sets of definitions: > >...because I'm basing my interpretation, in such a case, on > >the content of the painting itself, no historian would say that the > >painting is a primary source if I stand in front of it but suddenly > >becomes a secondary source if I work from a photographic reproduction. > > Even though content is lost in the photographic process. But there has not been another level of interpretation added, as there would be with, say, a drawing that has gone through another scholar's hands. I'm still examining and citing the *painting* as my source, and the painting itself remains the primary source; its status is not changed if I make a bad choice in how I view it. Even standing in front of the painting, I could create as much error by forgetting to take off my sunglasses when I look at it; in either case, the mechanical creation of error in the viewing process doesn't change the painting's own status as a source -- it just changes the accuracy of my interpretation. I can certainly introduce errors in my own work by using a bad reproduction of the painting on which to base my interpretations, or relying on a reproduction for things that are best seen in person. So it's my responsibility to minimize the potential for misunderstanding (on my part) as much as possible. Sometimes that means it's necessary to see the real thing (e.g. if I'm trying to distinguish painted seams from surface cracks or analyze use of colors). Sometimes the risk of error in using a reproduction is minimal to nonexistent (e.g. if I'm comparing figure placement in various compositions). I guess I see the difference created by the photographic process as a mechanical loss of quality more than an interpretive loss of *content* -- the act of photographing does not move figures around or change their posture, for instance. A redrawing can. The "traditional" definition of "secondary source" involves an added level of interpretation, not just an added level of separation. Cynthia, in her article, used the term "primary source once removed" to describe a noninterpretive level of separation, which I hadn't heard before, but I think captures the distinction better. Using "secondary" to mean any step of removal, without considering the matter of introduced interpretation, loses a nuance that's important for the set of definitions as used in my end of the field. All of this is a minor matter next to the larger issue of whether a painting itself can be considered a "primary source" in the study of costume, which I think we've determined depends on the nature of the study. > For example, in back tracking one of the shoe drawings from Fairholt I > wound up looking at black and white photos, then later a color > facsimile of the manuscript in question (Cott. MS Nero C IV) and that > gave me a clue as to why the shoe was drawn a particular way that only > showed up in the color reproduction of folio 3. I can only wonder > what other details didn’t even make it into that reproduction, and > would need to examine the original to discover (which is what Fairholt > based his drawing on). I consider those reproductions secondary > sources because of this. And I'd consider the manuscript a primary source, and the b/w image a poor way to view the primary source, but not a secondary source in itself. Back to that "primary source once removed" status. BTW, in case this affects your research: I seriously doubt Fairholt based his drawing on the original manuscript itself. He created the vast majority of his images by copying from other books, including Strutt's and Planche's previous works on costume as well as various antiquarian studies of artifacts, prints/engravings of artworks, etc. I've tracked some of his specific changes as originating with intermediaries' errors. He also added a sizable amount of "fixing" of his own (and says so in his preface, where he explains that "glaring errors of drawing may be corrected." He had some interesting definitions of "glaring errors" and "correction"). > >>This is why back-tracking sources is such a big thing for me, the > >>closer I can get to the original items the better. I've seen far too > >>many cases where a painting or engraving leaves out crucial details > >>that an actual garment might indicate. A painting is a description of > >>an original, not the original itself. > >Hmm. I think we're bringing in a whole 'nother issue here. It sounds like > >you're assuming we're talking about studying some "original" -- say, a > >specific person's real garment -- that's being depicted in a painting. > > But isn’t that what we are doing? You may have noticed the arguments > that the artists are painting what they are seeing, which is why those > paintings are as good as photographs? The assumption seems to be that > those paintings are OF real garments. Certainly, if all you are doing > is looking at the fashion concepts, then sure, paintings are great. > How many times though have you seen someone talking about reproducing > a specific garment from a particular painting as though that garment > were a real garment, as depicted in such a painting.? Yes, I've seen that, but that's not *my* assumption, and I personally don't think it's a theoretically sound way to approach reproduction of costume from pictures, except in cases where we have reason to believe that a specific pictured garment really did exist as shown (e.g. a portrait backed up with inventory references, in which case you'd use the combination of both sources in making your decisions on the reproduction). I hadn't much thought of this distinction before, though, save to recognize it as an approach common among re-enactors, who are often looking at historic images for the express purpose of finding something to wear -- they see an image and say "I want to make that gown," and that focuses them in on the concrete interpretation of the image as a representation of an assumed artifact. Alas, this is often flawed reasoning, because it ignores such factors as symbolism and artistic purpose in the image, which can influence the presentation of the garment. I warn about that sometimes in my lectures, that most images shouldn't be assumed to be journalistic records of specific extant garments. But they can often be used to document what you adeptly call "fashion concepts." (Before anyone misreads the above, please note that I'm not saying that all images are unreliable. Sometimes the images *are* quite realistic, or elements of them are realistic, and you can use them to draw reasonably solid conclusions about construction details or silhouette or drape or whatever, but there are a lot of factors to weigh before you reach that conclusion, and you can't use all the elements of the image indiscriminately. I use art all the time as evidence for practical matters of clothing, but I take a lot of care in doing so, by considering the context and purpose of the image, the artistic school, the limitations of the medium, etc. and how these things may influence the depiction of costume. I'm sure I miss a lot of significant points and misinterpret some things, but at least I am catching a lot of things now that I wouldn't have understood 10 or 20 years ago, so I know it makes a difference. I also spend a lot of time looking at large quantities of examples to identify trends and to define norms and outliers, which is very different from zeroing on a single image.) In seeing this conceptual difference right now -- between viewing a painting as documentation of an artifact, or as documentation of a "fashion concept," it occurs to me that in my own research, I really am studying dress history as a sort of "historical event" -- something that develops over time and is deeply entwined with its historical and cultural context. So it makes sense that the terms of traditional history, which defines "primary" and "secondary" sources in terms of representation of events, would apply to my work more than to that of someone who is taking the approach of studying an object. Which brings us to agreement: > That’s what you are getting at :) I daresay (based on my subjective > observations of how and where these discussions crop up) that most of > the folks who are researching historical garments are seeing those > paintings as representations of (once) extant garments. And I believe > it is from this perspective that descriptions of “Sources” such as > appear on Cynthia’s page (and even messages I’ve written in the past) > have come about. > Absolutely. Although I was really referring to things like memorial > brasses. One of my favorite classes of sources -- full of minefields, full of rewards, and it's taken me years of specialized study to appreciate both angles. > For example, I find your theories on the Gothic Fitted Dress to be > valid and well supported. No pun intended, of course ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 04:12:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA49ChOL002786 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:12:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA49AicC006281; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:10:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA49Agr6007920; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:10:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA49Acr7007803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:10:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA49A2PX003242 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:10:02 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:09:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA76D3D.7000308@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:11:25 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > Cynthia, in her article, used the term "primary > source once removed" to describe a noninterpretive level of separation, > which I hadn't heard before, but I think captures the distinction better. I made the term up. > In seeing this conceptual difference right now -- between viewing a > painting as documentation of an artifact, or as documentation of a > "fashion concept," Ah! But you see, if what is important to you is the social meaning of something, then your primary source is the painting/manuscript image, because the artist added his opinion into the mix when he painted it, by his choice of positioning, color, etc. Because you're not looking at the garments per se, you're more like someone looking at the art of portrature -- for which a painted portrait *is* a primary source. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Then came the news that margarine’s trans fat may be even worse than butter’s saturated fat, which threw millions of confused consumers back into the butter camp." Butter Camp? Where do I sign up? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 04:26:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA49Q7OL005876 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:26:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA49PScC006694; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:25:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA49PQr6014570; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:25:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA49PMr7014488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:25:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA49OlPX003577 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:24:47 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:24:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA770B8.5080904@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:26:16 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Girl with a Pearl Earring References: <3FA753B8.3090504@misc.com> In-Reply-To: <3FA753B8.3090504@misc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> http://www.girlwithapearlearringmovie.com/ I have a 1.5' x 2' poster of this painting . It looks like a dished brass earring to me, not a [marine] pearl. But if that's what Vermeer called it, then I must be mistaken. The art historians think it's an actual pearl: http://girl-with-a-pearl-earring.20m.com/Girl_with_a_Pearl%20Earring_The_Pearl.htm cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 05:18:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4AI7OL027269 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:18:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4AHRcC009852; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:17:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4AHPHM017897; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:17:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta02bw.bigpond.com (mta02bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4AHKHM017821 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:17:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from clarke ([144.135.24.94]) by mta02bw.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HNT005JQOJ3X8@mta02bw.email.bigpond.com> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:16:16 +1000 (EST) Received: from 144.138.240.90 ([144.138.240.90]) by bwmam09.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2c 138/1055608); Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:16:06 +0000 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:15:58 +1100 From: Purple Elephant Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) To: Historical Costume Message-id: <011301c3a2bc$aa69d600$5af08a90@clarke> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Purple Elephant wrote: > > > But the point here -- which Kat remembers correctly from our conversation > about this -- is that in the period, you very likely *wouldn't* have been > trying to wear that style at all -- not for class reasons, but for > regional ones. In the modern Western world, particularly in the U.S., > we're used to seeing a wide combination and variation of facial/body > types. But regional "looks" were much more homogeneous in medieval Europe. > Think of hair and skin color, for instance -- in some regions, nearly > everone is fair, and in other reasons, essentially everyone is dark. > But I'm not American, or Australian. Or from any other sort of melting pot. I'm English, and pretty much English all the way back (alright, so with a teensy bit of Irish) and I look very English. Maybe that's why hennins were only popular for such a brief period in England, as opposed to in France and Flanders. Interestingly enough I was wearing my English hood (a la Jane Seymour) once and someone told me I had the right sort of face to carry it off. I also do well in those columnar braids that were so popular in the 14th century. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 07:10:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4CAVOL027779 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:10:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4C9hcC023852; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:09:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4C9YqB021379; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:09:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4C9VqB021332 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:09:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1de.12159a02 (3940) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:09:24 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1de.12159a02.2cd8f0f3@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:09:23 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I once had a student who argued that microfilm of, say, a period newspaper is not a primary source. I guess that, technically, that is true, but what are the odds of my ever being able to put my hands on the originals? Even microfilm can be hard to find, as I learned to my dismay when I was trying to find War of 1812 era New Orleans newspapers at the Library of Congress. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 07:14:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4CE2OL027826 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:14:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4CDRcC023970; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:13:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4CDQqB022915; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:13:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4CDLqB022833 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:13:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1ca.139b9910 (3940) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:13:11 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1ca.139b9910.2cd8f1d7@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:13:11 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] has anyone seen this book? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree, it's a wonderful book. And this ties in to the whole discussion of primary vs secondary sources. Certainly this book is a secondary source; however, one should not dismiss secondary sources like this. The possibility of our getting to examine many of these items up close, and taking such wonderful photographs for future reference, are very slim. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 08:36:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4DaMOL028291 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:36:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4DXCcC027318; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:33:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4DX9IR026809; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:33:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4DX5IR026784 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:33:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hA4DX0K5024664 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:33:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031104083149.00b6ae00@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:33:05 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA955F@exchange.lynchburg.ed u> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] best compliment... was Facial and body types & costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That reminds me of one of the best compliments I ever received... "My God, you look like you just stepped out of a Brueghel" Bridgette >All this reminds me of one of the best compliments I ever recieved. I was >showing someone at work various pictures from Celtic festivals and Ren >Faires I had been to. So they saw me in a range of outfits from great kilt, >viking pants and t-tunic, to fitted Italian style doublet. The person >remarked "You know what? You have the perfect face and hair for this. No >matter which outfit you are in, you look like that's what you should be >wearing." After years of being teased in high school for having long hair >and glasses (typical nerd) I was shocked. > >Bjorn Arnaldsson Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 08:36:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4DadOL028298 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:36:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Da3cC027439; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Da2IR028066; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Da0IR028041 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hA4DZxK5026854 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:35:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031104083424.00bbbe48@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:36:05 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] question ? In-Reply-To: <20031103.144551.1652.1.Cley@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AHA! I have spotted a difference in procedure... In AEthelmearc, and Atlantia (when I was there) I never have seen /done an oral segment to the presentation. Where are you that this is practiced? Bridgette > You're not. Not even close. :) Time can be a huge factor. Some people >prefer to read after oral presentations too. > >Arlys Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 08:57:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4DvqOL028483 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:57:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Dv6cC028433; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Dv5SB007542; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:57:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Dv2SB007515 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be8a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.138]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1C3B15EE2A2 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:57:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001801c3a2db$d01b8d70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FA72BD1.8080903@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] has anyone seen this book? Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:59:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn. You simply must have this book. High resolution colour pages after pages of wonderfull closeup details of exquisite costumes. Lots of information and lots of inspiration for you. You simply must have it! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 5:32 AM Subject: [h-cost] has anyone seen this book? > _Historical Fashion in Detail: the 17th and 18th Centuries_ by Avril > Hart, Susan North. > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1851772588/thecostumersmani/026-745 4127-4038009#product-details > > > Just curious to see if anybody has comments about it. It might go on my > wish list. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 09:06:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4E6bOL028497 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:06:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4E5qcC028971; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:05:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4E5pSB011753; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:05:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4E5mSB011707 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:05:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01860 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:29:51 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:29:51 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) In-Reply-To: <3FA76D3D.7000308@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > In seeing this conceptual difference right now -- between viewing a > > painting as documentation of an artifact, or as documentation of a > > "fashion concept," > > Ah! But you see, if what is important to you is the social meaning of > something, then your primary source is the painting/manuscript image, > because the artist added his opinion into the mix when he painted it, > by his choice of positioning, color, etc. Because you're not looking > at the garments per se, you're more like someone looking at the art of > portrature -- for which a painted portrait *is* a primary source. True to a point, but that's incomplete and limiting. In researching the development of a fashion, the social meaning of the fashion is just *one* element of the mix. So are the economic factors in its production, and the materials and techniques available, and the class distinctions in its wear, and -- yes -- the way it's made. It's all rolled in together. And in order to study the many factors that all go into a fashion, I have to look at many types of available sources -- including artifacts, which presumably *don't* display opinion in the same way you describe above. This is why the more general definitions of traditional history study are applicable for "history of dress" as opposed to "reproduction of a single specific item." The more general definitions allow for the fact that each source will have something different to contribute, and that it's up to the researcher to sift out what parts of that information are valid evidence for specific conclusions. So the painting may tell me something about the artist's opinion, which is useful for the social aspects. Interpreted carefully, it can also tell me many things about silhouette and construction, which have less to do with the artist's opinion and more with his lucky vantage point as a contemporary witness to the "event" I am studying. It is the latter attribute -- artist as on-the-spot reporter -- that is crucial to the painting's definition as a primary source, in my end of the field. The distinction between historical study of a fashion and reproduction of a garment comes up in my lectures, though not in those words exactly. One of the things I explain in many of my talks is that I'm not there to give a how-to class on making a style; I'm there to give them background and context on why the style looks that way, who would have worn it, and what it meant in its time period. The people I teach can then apply this information in their own study, and I do think (hope) it helps broaden and deepen their understanding of a garment and inform their choices in construction. At the very least, it gives them a glimpse into some of the broader issues of the field. Given what I know of how deeply entwined clothing is with its social/economic/aesthetic context, I have to see the approach of focusing just on "how is it made" as not particularly scholarly or comprehensive. And that's fine for most re-enactment work, where the point is to produce an artifact suitable for wear. This is something that's much harder to explain when someone submits a proposal to me for a paper they'd like to give at the Medieval Congress that's essentially their documentation of their garb -- it boils down to "how I made this outfit" or maybe "what a person of this period would have worn." Often the garb in question is extremely fine work in craftsmanship and reproduction, but this sort of project is not the same as an academic paper that takes an original research question and analyzes it with the available evidence from the period. Personally, I'd like to think that someone who takes the more complete avenue of research also comes up with a better reproduction product, partly because they have more understanding of how to make the many choices that go into the creation of the outfit, and also because they have a better understanding of how to "read" the artwork and documents that they base their choices on. But that's my bias as a researcher. I'm not doing re-enactment, and I do a very limited amount of reproduction work (and all of that in the context of more comprehensive study). There are so many research questions to explore *beyond* the question of "how was it made"! (A large part of my work has focused on determining what elements of images of clothing are symbolic rather than realistic, which requires an understanding of how real clothing is made as well as what artists are trying to accomplish. I sometiems tell people I specialize in "clothing that didn't exist.") In any case, I'll try to withhold my opinion from now on regarding how SCA people should define "primary source" for purposes of documentation. I can see this is not an area where there can be a meeting of minds, but at least both of the proposed schema have justification in more traditional academic parlance. Though I do see that it will probably continue to be a headache for people who want consistent terminology; I would guess that entries even within a given contest may vary between the concrete "reproduction of a (real or hyphothesized) artifact" and the more complex "reproduction of a non-surviving style based on an analysis of economic and social factors combined with visual and textual evidence." More to the point, I'd predict that there will always be confusion among the various members who come to the SCA from different academic backgrounds, who have learned different definitions for these terms -- "What do you mean that's not a primary source? Of course it's a primary source!" Which, I think, is how we got into this discussion in the first place. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 09:25:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4EPmOL028560 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:25:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4EP1cC000405; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4EP0SB021603; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4EOvSB021583 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:24:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 94380 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Nov 2003 14:24:52 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.083114 secs); 04 Nov 2003 14:24:52 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.083114 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 14:24:52 -0000 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:24:54 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume In-Reply-To: <20031103220540.K60285-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-ID: <20031104092055.F69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ha! Allison! I didn't realize it was you until I reread my message. Let's see, now that I have a picture in my mind: Spanish 16th c would work with your coloring, definitely. But I think your body type would look best in drapier styles that hang from the shoulders, perhaps earlier period Greek or Roman...or Byzantine! Yes, I think Byzantine would be perfect for you. Plus, cool concealing headwear. Drea > > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, A.Thurman wrote: > > > Been reading this thread with interest. I think y'all may have hit the nail > > on the head regarding regional/national body types informing regional > > styles. > > > > Try as I might, I love Tudor and Elizabethan but don't think it looks right > > on me, mostly because I am far too dark for the "ideal" seen in portraits. I > > wear sunscreen every day, but have an olive complexion and very angular > > features, possibly from some Native American in my background (the rest of > > my heritage is mostly English/Scottish). > > > > Not like I'm going to drop 16 century styles (hey, I'm sure there were > > swarthy girls somewhere wearing stays and farthingales!), but I'm curious: > > what would y'all suggest for someone who is all shoulders/bust with no hips > > or waist and an olive complexion and angular face (my hair is anachronistic > > for all historic time periods - I rely on hats or wigs). > > > > Allison T. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 09:35:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4EZLOL028931 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:35:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4EYUcC000973; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:34:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4EYSSB026742; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:34:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4EYOSB026719 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:34:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 34003 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Nov 2003 14:34:18 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.318544 secs); 04 Nov 2003 14:34:18 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.318544 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 14:34:17 -0000 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:34:19 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Girl with a Pearl Earring In-Reply-To: <3FA753B8.3090504@misc.com> Message-ID: <20031104093202.I69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Scrumdillyicious! I've read the book. It will be interesting to see how the movie interprets it. Plus, Colin Firth as intense, creative genius in yummy costume = WANT. Yowsa. Drea On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Theresa Eacker wrote: > Thanks for the advance notice!!! Nice site - costumes (garb??) look > very good from this distance but the plot sounds a bit melodramatic!!! > But, Colin Firth as Vermeer has got _my_ attention. > > Theresa Eacker > > Rima wrote: > > > > Speaking of paintings, movies, and such, have you guys seen the > > trailers for this?????? > > > > OHMIGOD > > > > Rima > > http://www.girlwithapearlearringmovie.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 09:39:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4EdaOL029123 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:39:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4EcscC001271; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:38:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4EcrSB029247; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:38:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4EcnSC029112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:38:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA4EcCPX005072 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:38:12 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:38:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA7BA2D.8030801@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:39:41 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > I'd predict that there will always be confusion among the > various members who come to the SCA from different academic backgrounds, > who have learned different definitions for these terms -- "What do you > mean that's not a primary source? Of course it's a primary source!" > > Which, I think, is how we got into this discussion in the first place. Right. I think when I get around to rewriting my page about it, I'll stress even more that a good source is what is desired, rather than a source with primary/secondary/whatever labels on it. Perhaps that will help some arrive at a meeting of minds rather than an argument about terms. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 10:13:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4FDOOL030664 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:13:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4FCRcC004688; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:12:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4FCPT2020057; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:12:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4FCKT2019983 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:12:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.92]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:11:26 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:12:12 -0500 Message-ID: <002b01c3a2e6$079e79b0$7048ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <3FA62E49.13135.1E13FDE0@localhost> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat wrote: <> I learned this the hard way when I was going to college in Japan. On the buses and trains during rush hour, personal space is simply not to be had. I went there understanding that. I didn't expect to have leg room or space to turn around. And I think that the fact that I'm tall and therefore could see over most people's heads in the car helped me feel not so claustrophobic at least. But when people stepped on my feet or tripped into me, I still found myself expecting an apology. We were all packed like sardines in a can, but if someone causes you pain, something soothing should be said even if it was circumstance and not their fault. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 10:51:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4FpDOL031034 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:51:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4FoEcC007728; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:50:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4FoET2017919; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:50:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4FngT2017396 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OtgWDOJL0O2YoHLYQfsEYj8=">; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:49:14 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JD6DY8PH; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:49:14 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:48:04 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Message-ID: <20031104.074900.1336.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-24 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Did you see the latest TI (just came out)? There's a great article in there on constructing a Herjolfnes hood. And I got happily published too, just not on costuming. ;) Arlys On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:23:53 -0500 "Megan M." writes: > Wow. Thanks everyone for the pointers. Now to go look up some > German > stuff. I have Drea's Flemish book somewhere (moved this summer) so > I can go > to that with the hope I would look OK in it. And I'm doing > Herjolfnes-style > stuff for camping/hot weather wear anyway, so that's great. I just > love this > list!! So many interesting discussions! > -Megan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 10:51:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4FpeOL031040 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:51:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4FnmcC007648; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:49:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4FnkT2017517; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:49:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4FngT2017394 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OtgWDOJL0O2YS3/3tG9JFQc=">; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:49:14 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JD6DY8PE; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:49:14 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:40:13 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) Message-ID: <20031104.074900.1336.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,8-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO With all this discussion of paintings, another two bits' worth: be very careful of paintings shown in books. Sometimes these are not reproduced as the originals. The obvious problem is that of the colors, but you can also find censured versions of some artworks. One such case is a winter scene from the Duc de Berry's _Tres Riches Heures_: a lady and two men are warming themselves inside a hut, seated on a bench. The men are sitting with their legs sprawled and are obviously not wearing undergarments. Needless to say, some editors edit that detail out. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 11:01:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4G1wOL031125 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:01:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4G15cC008847; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4G146u026788; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4G126u026748 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from oldwaylane.net (dialup-171.75.46.226.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net [171.75.46.226]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA05964 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:00:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FA7DBD5.90106@oldwaylane.net> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:03:17 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume References: <20031103220540.K60285-100000@shell.siscom.net> In-Reply-To: <20031103220540.K60285-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea Leed wrote: > You may be able to pull off Slavic or Russian pretty well. I know the > Saami of Finland and through them many Finns and Scandinavians in general > share some genetic similarities with other polar American Indian groups. > Perhaps Mongolian, or some other central asian people? Or Greek? > Drea Hi Drea, By any chance do you have any suggestions (books or links) for Saami clothing? -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 11:07:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4G7mOL031151 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:07:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4G71cC009361; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4G6x6u002177; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4G6v6u002151 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:06:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-118-214-189.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.214.189 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 16:06:57 -0000 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:06:51 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] best compliment... was Facial and body types & costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031104083149.00b6ae00@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love this discussion! My two great loves... anthropology and costuming combined! ;) Anyway, I just wanted to say that there is a darn good reason why I am so attracted to late Tudor and early Elizabethan: Every Holbein portrait I've ever seen looks like it could be of someone in my family. I jokingly call myself a 16th century supermodel. As for looking like I've stepped out of a painting: http://www.modehistorique.com/images/sarah4.jpg (Of course, this is a gag picture. Jen Thompson overlaid my face into the original portrait using her mad Photoshop skillz. But it still shows you that I was born about 450 years too late...) Sarah _________________________________________________ http://www.elizabethanlady.com "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure their security deserve neither..." Benjamin Franklin On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 05:33 AM, M Stewart wrote: > > That reminds me of one of the best compliments I ever received... > "My God, you look like you just stepped out of a Brueghel" > > > Bridgette > > >> All this reminds me of one of the best compliments I ever recieved. >> I was >> showing someone at work various pictures from Celtic festivals and Ren >> Faires I had been to. So they saw me in a range of outfits from >> great kilt, >> viking pants and t-tunic, to fitted Italian style doublet. The person >> remarked "You know what? You have the perfect face and hair for >> this. No >> matter which outfit you are in, you look like that's what you should >> be >> wearing." After years of being teased in high school for having long >> hair >> and glasses (typical nerd) I was shocked. >> >> Bjorn Arnaldsson > > > Mari Stewart > Cornell University > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 11:08:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4G83OL031155 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:08:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4G7JcC009396; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:07:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4G7I6u002427; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:07:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4G726u002212 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:07:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be41.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.65]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B9B84262AF8 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:07:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001301c3a2ed$fcbe61b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:09:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] girl with a pearl earring X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Thanks for sending the link to the new movie. As always i am not sure if this movie will ever come to Denmark, but then i can hope for a DVD sometime in the spring. It has ben such a long time since they made another costume drama, so i will look forwards for this, the costumes looks great!!! Bjarne from dark Copenhagen, where i spend my holliday in making embroidery and bobbin lace :-) all days!!! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 11:17:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4GHdOL031209 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:17:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GH1cC010464; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GH06u010707; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GGs6v010479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:16:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA4GGIPX005722 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:16:18 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:16:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA7D12B.7060407@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:17:47 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] best compliment... was Facial and body types & costume References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sarah wrote: > As for looking like I've stepped out of a painting: > http://www.modehistorique.com/images/sarah4.jpg > > (Of course, this is a gag picture. Jen Thompson overlaid my face into > the original portrait using her mad Photoshop skillz. But it still > shows you that I was born about 450 years too late...) Keen! And that one shows a chin strap on the hat! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Then came the news that margarine’s trans fat may be even worse than butter’s saturated fat, which threw millions of confused consumers back into the butter camp." Butter Camp? Where do I sign up? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 11:24:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4GO1OL031250 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:24:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GI6cC010615; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:18:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GI66u011599; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:18:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21407.mail.yahoo.com (web21407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4GHU6u011117 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:17:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031104161730.73790.qmail@web21407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.153] by web21407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:17:30 PST Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:17:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031103135727.G49675-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *grin* I think I'm going to stay in the 14th century with occassional straying into the 15th. I've got the big hips, small waist, small bust that seems to be made for the "gothic slouch." Plus my hair is evening out in length to make it easy to make the columnar braids, and I'm following Cynthia's work on headdresses with great interest. I'm enjoying this discussion though, to see if any other styles would suit me. Angharad ver' Reynulf 5'6", about 135-140 pounds depending on the time of the month, fair skinned, hazel eyes, waist length fine dark brown hair--high cheekbones and a more oval-shaped face with a sharper chin. I do know a good portion of my ancestry: 1/4 Norwegian, 37% Welsh, and then the admixture of English, Scottish, Irish, "black" Irish, Dutch, Cherokee, Lakota, and then who knows what else. :-) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 11:34:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4GYuOL031330 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:34:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GY5cC012270; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:34:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GY16u025625; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4GXw6u025536 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:33:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OpnT39pyQ8C+2djmca+8vxM=">; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:33:40 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JD6GJK3N; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:33:40 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:17:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] question ? Message-ID: <20031104.083240.1336.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,4-7,11-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > AHA! I have spotted a difference in procedure... In AEthelmearc, > and Atlantia (when I was there) I never have seen /done an oral segment > to the presentation. Where are you that this is practiced? Bridgette An Tir. Kat and I are practically neighbors. :) Here, oral presentation along with docs is the norm for A&S competitions. Even when someone has written a research paper. There are some categories the judges recieve ahead of time, so that they will have time to study the work--research and composition are two of them. So how does AEthelmearc handle presentations? Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 11:35:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4GZDOL031333 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:35:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GYNcC012298; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:34:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GYM6u025892; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:34:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4GXw6u025534 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:33:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OpnT39pyQ8C+Zuzr4gGspMY=">; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:33:40 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JD6GJK3L; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:33:40 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:01:02 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) Message-ID: <20031104.083240.1336.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-13,15-16 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin writes: > So the painting may tell me something about the artist's opinion, > which is > useful for the social aspects. Interpreted carefully, it can also > tell me > many things about silhouette and construction, which have less to do > with > the artist's opinion and more with his lucky vantage point as a > contemporary witness to the "event" I am studying. It is the latter > attribute -- artist as on-the-spot reporter -- that is crucial to > the > painting's definition as a primary source, in my end of the field. This is fascinating! Could you give an example of this kind of interpretation? what sorts of things you look for? Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 11:47:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4GlgOL031388 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:47:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GDXcC010121; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GDV6u007674; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:13:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GDS6u007635 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:13:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hA4GDRK5018702 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:13:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031104111242.00bc8ec8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:13:34 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] best compliment... was Facial and body types & costume In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20031104083149.00b6ae00@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's just perfect!! you really look the part. ; > Bridgette >I love this discussion! My two great loves... anthropology and costuming >combined! ;) > >Anyway, I just wanted to say that there is a darn good reason why I am so >attracted to late Tudor and early Elizabethan: Every Holbein portrait I've >ever seen looks like it could be of someone in my family. I jokingly call >myself a 16th century supermodel. > >As for looking like I've stepped out of a painting: >http://www.modehistorique.com/images/sarah4.jpg > >(Of course, this is a gag picture. Jen Thompson overlaid my face into the >original portrait using her mad Photoshop skillz. But it still shows you >that I was born about 450 years too late...) > >Sarah Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 11:49:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4GnnOL031399 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:49:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Gn1cC013780; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Gmw6u009198; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:48:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Gmt6u009109 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:48:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id A8773048E; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:48:55 -0600 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1067964534509; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:48:54 -0600 Message-ID: <009d01c3a2f2$f740a4a0$0f64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031104161730.73790.qmail@web21407.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:44:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Several years ago, almost twenty now, I was living in Germany with my military husband. It didn't matter if I was on post or off, everyone there thought I was German. I remember the looks he would get when we walked down the street pushing the stroller and another on the way. Of course, I always prefered to wear german clothing and rarely bought anything from the post exchange. They just fit better, much easier for me to find something off the rack there than stateside. At first everyone insisted it was because of the clothes, so I put on all american clothing and they still said it looked "german" something about the way I put it together. As to family history, my husband was the one with closer blood ties to his German heritage, while my father was Slovak, both grandparents from the old country, and my mother's family has a bit of everything, though she looks most like her german-swiss mother, as I do as well. Cyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 11:58:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4GwuOL031511 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:58:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Gw3cC015202; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:58:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Gw1EM018201; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GvvEM018137 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:57:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02911 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:22:00 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:22:00 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) In-Reply-To: <20031104.083240.1336.2.Cley@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > This is fascinating! Could you give an example of this kind of > interpretation? what sorts of things you look for? Oh, gee, that's a full lecture right there. This sort of stuff permeates most of what I teach. And that's a really open-ended question ... I could go on for miles. I'll try to answer shortly, but I have to admit I spent WAY too much time on h-cost yesterday and I'm paying for it the rest of the week. I have some work that has to be done before Thursday, so I can then pack up to go to Boston for a lecture weekend. (Anyone from this list going to be there?) It might be a week before I have time for another lengthy reply. But I said that yesterday too... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 11:59:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4GxvOL031518 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:59:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GwicC015323; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:58:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GwgEM018811; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:58:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4GweEM018790 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:58:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.167.47] (helo=wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AH4Vs-00023s-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:58:40 -0500 Message-ID: <20834564.1067965119404.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:58:39 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In my not-so-humble opinion, a whole lot of the confusion and anguish about primary, secondary, tertiary etc. sources stems from the simple fact that some competitions have rules -- usually graven on stone tablets somewhere -- that require a certain number of references of each type. (I.e. "two primary sources or one primary and two secondary") I personally think the writers of such rules, however well-intended, should be taken out and, er, nonviolently persuaded (operatic arias at ten paces?). I think such rules cause contestant anguish far above and beyond their intended purpose, simply because it _is_ often difficult for the inexperienced to understand the differences. I wish such rules could more sensibly say that sources closer to the original items get you more points, and let it go at that. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 12:11:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4HB0OL031608 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:11:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HAOcC017916; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:10:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HAIEM000844; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:10:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HAEEN000691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:10:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA4H9aPX006296 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:09:36 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:09:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA7DDAA.40808@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:11:06 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Subject: [h-cost] Robin in Boston was: Re: Primary? Secondary? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > some work that has to be done before Thursday, so I can then pack up to go > to Boston for a lecture weekend. (Anyone from this list going to be > there?) I'll be there! I think the organizer said people were coming from several states away, too. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 12:16:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4HGBOL031644 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:16:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HFFcC018951; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:15:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HF9EM006596; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:15:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HF2EM006432 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hA4HGMA00453.; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:16:22 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:14:59 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:14:51 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Girl with a Pearl Earring Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The plot (of the book, at any rate) isn't really that melodramatic, and is partly based on known facts about Vermeer's family life. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> theresa@misc.com 11/04/03 07:22am >>> Thanks for the advance notice!!! Nice site - costumes (garb??) look very good from this distance but the plot sounds a bit melodramatic!!! But, Colin Firth as Vermeer has got _my_ attention. Theresa Eacker Rima wrote: > > Speaking of paintings, movies, and such, have you guys seen the > trailers for this?????? > > OHMIGOD > > Rima > http://www.girlwithapearlearringmovie.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 12:35:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4HZFOL031725 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:35:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HYRcC020785; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:34:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HVVEM021518; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:32:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f16.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HV1EM020942 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:31:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:28:51 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.78 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:28:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.78] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:28:51 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2003 17:28:51.0852 (UTC) FILETIME=[1D4B0CC0:01C3A2F9] X-DCC-SPAMCHECK.NET-Metrics: net.indra.com 1168; From=1 Message-ID=1 Received=1 Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: Robin Netherton >Wow, this has been an exciting thread. I think we actually broke some new >ground here, and made some useful connections. Always a nice thing when it happens. >I'll make some very minor observations on your post, with the >understanding that overall, it's clear we agree on the basics -- that >the >terminology on "primary sources" is apparently different between >different >branches of research, reflecting the differences in the >focus and goals of those branches. But the ultimate takeaway point is >the same – seek sources as close as you can to your object of >research, >and recognize that all sources, regardless of what you call them, have >inherent limitations. This is why I ultimately maintain that the definitions aren’t conceptually different – it’s just the application that makes them different. >>becomes a secondary source if I work from a photographic >>reproduction. >Even though content is lost in the photographic process. >But there has not been another level of interpretation added, as there >would be with, say, a drawing that has gone through another scholar's >hands. I'm still examining and citing the *painting* as my source, and the >painting itself remains the primary source; its status is not changed if I >make a bad choice in how I view it. Even standing in front of the >painting, I could create as much error by forgetting to take off my >sunglasses when I look at it; in either case, the mechanical creation of >error in the viewing process doesn't change the painting's own status as a >source -- it just changes the accuracy of my interpretation. And here we hit another focal difference. Whether the error is mechanical, interpretive or whatnot isn’t as relevant as that there IS an error (or potential for error). What caused the error only comes into play if we have to figure out how to work around the error. >surface cracks or analyze use of colors). Sometimes the risk of error >in >using a reproduction is minimal to nonexistent (e.g. if I'm >comparing >figure placement in various compositions). Absolutely. I noticed one of the messages in this thread discussed not dismissing secondary sources. I certainly don’t since much of my work is done with sources removed from the original. >I guess I see the difference created by the photographic process as a >mechanical loss of quality more than an interpretive loss of *content* I received in my email this morning a series of 10 photographs of a shoe, asking about where and when it might have been worn. Now the photos are good enough quality to give the gentleman an answer. And while they show pretty much all sides, they are not good enough though to allow me to reproduce the item if I were so inclined. Which is too bad since the actual construction is very similar to things I’ve seen before, but still significantly different. >The "traditional" definition of "secondary source" involves an added >level >of interpretation, not just an added level of separation. Traditional, huh? The definition I’ve been using for the past 25 years has had to do with potential for loss of information, which is merely simplified to levels of separation. Looking through the various definitions online, I’m not seeing sufficient consistency of interpretation to declare a single version “traditional“ :) >...source once removed" to describe a noninterpretive level of >separation, which I hadn't heard before, but I think captures the >distinction better. Using "secondary" to mean any step of removal, without >considering the matter of introduced interpretation, loses a nuance that's >important for the set of >definitions as used in my end of the field. Considering the inconsistency of usage, I doubt that the terms were intended to undergo this degree of scrutiny. >All of this is a minor matter next to the larger issue of whether a >painting itself can be considered a "primary source" in the study of >costume, which I think we've determined depends on the nature of the >study. While for me, the matter of whether paintings can be considered primary sources is dependent to the question of where the line between primary and secondary is drawn (and for whom). >And I'd consider the manuscript a primary source, and the b/w image >a poor way to view the primary source, but not a secondary source in >itself. Back to that "primary source once removed" status. It’s a nice term, but good luck getting it to catch on :) >BTW, in case this affects your research: I seriously doubt Fairholt >based >his drawing on the original manuscript itself. He created the vast majority >of his images by copying from other books, including >Strutt's and Planche's previous works…. I know, unfortunately Planche is still lost in the mail, and ain’t nobody willing to ILL a copy of Strutt’s first edition. >>…How many times though have you seen someone talking about reproducing a >>specific garment from a particular painting as >>though that garment were a real garment, as depicted in such a >>painting.? >Yes, I've seen that, but that's not *my* assumption… Absolutely – but if we back track through this thread, I suspect it’s an underlying assumption to the initial questions. >Alas, this is often flawed reasoning, because it ignores such factors >as symbolism and artistic purpose in the image, which can influence >the presentation of the garment… Which is why my websites tend to focus on the archaeology only :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 12:40:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4He4OL031768 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:40:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HdIcC021395; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HcubR028075; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:38:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HV8EM021140 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:31:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hA4HUxK5028231 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:30:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031104121337.06e58eb0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:31:09 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <20031104.083240.1336.3.Cley@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Presentations... was question? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Arlys... I'll use the annual Kingdom blow-out A&S event as the example... It's pretty standard in format. Large tables, usually rectangular... not that that matters, lined against a wall. You plop your stuff down, or arrange it neatly - whichever you prefer - then as the judging begins... the artisans are shooed out of the room. Not only is there not a scheduled opportunity to discuss our work with the judges, there is a disincentive to get to know the judges. This is done to insure a kind of 'blind' scenario where political favoratism or partiality is not a factor. In the hopes that the judge does not know who the artisan is. Now this is not my favorite scenario for displaying my research... I present much better in 3D than on paper. I would rather interact with people, catch that question as it pops into their head, rather than relying on a pressed-for-time-person to thoroughly read my documentation. Plus - I really feel that my enthusiasm for my research is catching... and when people see me having fun with it - that they too will realize that research is not some fuddy-duddy activity for the chronically boring. Now, on occaision - there is an artisans' forum after the judging is done. One year, the year my co-researchers and I introduced the "Medieval Itty Bitty Booklight" , we had one of these Forum's. It was great! We taught and shared our research with -so many- people. It was a very heady day. Fun, fun, fun. But - the forum was not a part of the competition. Just an afterthought, a very important one in my opinion... How can you every put a person with the work, or plumb the depth of their knowledge - without meeting and talking to them? So I would love to see AEthelmearc institute oral presentations at - at least - one event a year, preferably at kingdom level... hmmm I think I have a new task. ; > Bridgette >An Tir. Kat and I are practically neighbors. :) > >Here, oral presentation along with docs is the norm for A&S competitions. >Even when someone has written a research paper. There are some categories >the judges recieve ahead of time, so that they will have time to study >the work--research and composition are two of them. > >So how does AEthelmearc handle presentations? > >Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 12:42:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4HgROL031783 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:42:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HffcC021625; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:41:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HfYeg000348; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:41:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Hd9bR028276 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:39:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.16d.23df5c7a (30960) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:28:22 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <16d.23df5c7a.2cd93bb6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:28:22 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooh, may I play? I have lots of ideas for garb in my brain (which I don't have the money for as I'm a college student, whee), but of course I'm not sure if they'll look good on me. Hopefully the link below will work. http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/fragileice/vwp?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album&.dnm= yearbookpic.jpg&.view=t Mind the wrap. If the above doesn't work: http://photos.yahoo.com/fragileice and click on "Yahoo Photo Album". Basically, I'm about 5'4" (give or take 1/4"), an RTW size 12 with a mostly-hourglass shape. Need to lose a bit in the gut, but I'm working on that. I'm very pale (I'm darker-skinned in that photo due to makeup and possibly re-touching), but the hair and eye-color are fairly accurate, with the exception of the fact that my hair has some coppery highlights that show up in sunlight (and are an artifact of a boxer named Red Moran on mom's side and everyone on dad's side). As for heritage, I'm Italian, Irish, and English. Right now my main area of study is Elizabethan. Any suggestions? Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 12:47:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4HljOL031834 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:47:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Hl0cC022308; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Hkweg006219; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:46:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4Hkseg006159 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:46:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 84125 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Nov 2003 17:46:45 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.195901 secs); 04 Nov 2003 17:46:45 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.195901 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 17:46:45 -0000 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:46:48 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume In-Reply-To: <3FA7DBD5.90106@oldwaylane.net> Message-ID: <20031104123240.I69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Hi Drea, > By any chance do you have any suggestions (books or > links) for Saami clothing? Only "traditional" Saami clothing, which was for the most part a 19th & 20th century formalization of current folkwear. Here's a pic: http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/edenpic4.htm and a page about the Saami in general: http://www.itv.se/boreale/samieng1.htm I've always been fascinated by the Saami, since I first found out about them. Apparently there's some Saami blood in our family... we're 3/4 Norwegian and 1/8 Swedish, and I've seen photos of Saami men that look just eerily my father, uncle & grandmother. I have the same "apple cheeks" and "squinty eyes" as they do. It's the music I'm most interested in, though (especially shamanic jojking), so I haven't looked for costume that much. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 12:51:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4HpeOL031874 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:51:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4HovcC022693; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:50:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Hoteg010285; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:50:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40907.mail.yahoo.com (web40907.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4Hoqeg010165 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:50:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031104175045.198.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:50:45 PST Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:50:45 -0800 (PST) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311041617.hA4GHC6w010874@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the subject of Doc) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Please forgive the length of this post... lots of thoughts are swirling around in my head! This has been a quite interesting discussion, but I don't think that anyone has been proven 'wrong', for the record. As stated by some, interpretation and purpose of use helps decide the definition of 'primary' versus 'secondary'. The original context in which I brought up the differences between these monikers (and that's all they are in the end -- names, or terms, not representations of 'truth' in and of themselves) was in the realm of SCA (or closely-related costume convention) competition. Someone here (please pardon me for forgetting exactly who -- I erase my digests after reading them) stated as a 'mistake' the presentation of social/historical context as part of one's documentation set for competition. She appears to be coming from the viewpoint of sticking to the known facts about a particular item's physical attributes for the purpose of reproduction. There is nothing inherently wrong with this approach for the purpose of such competitions. It's just one way to narrow one's focus out of many. The SCA is not academia (as those in the SCA are constantly reminded by those in academia, natch). If SCA competitions want to challenge people to recreate extant items or get as close as possible to doing so, it's entirely reasonable to expect one's documentation to stick to the physical facts. Sure, on a larger, academic level, one can miss a huge area of learning by focusing in this manner. But as an exercise in physical recreation of something, it is not technically necessary to understand how the item evolved, or in what context it was used. I agree it's limiting not to learn as much as possible around the context of the item, but I am not the Grand Pooba in charge of competitions and don't set up the rules. :^D I personally go ahead and learn all that I can about social/historical context anyway, as I get as much enjoyment out of researching the entire shebang as I do out of researching the physicality of an item. With that in mind, I'm comfortable drawing the distinction between a painting as an excellent secondary source for clothing but a primary source for painting and for artistic POV. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive -- that by defining source types in a hierarchical manner I am limiting my range of learning. I also think this discussion has begun to conflate two completely different ways to go about studying things. Robin, you speak often and well of the holistic approach -- using many varied source types in combination and with all interpretative caveats in place to glean a larger understanding of a general item type (for instance, the Gothic Fitted Dress). With such an approach, an artist's POV is an important part of the research, in and of itself, thus making the painting 'primary' for lots of things playing into the portrayal of the clothing in it. The non-academic historical clothing circles, full of fledgling, untrained (or trained outside of academia), enthusiastic researchers, has gravitated toward a methodology by which work is presented along the lines of focused material item re-creation. With that focus on the physical item, it's easy to see why a painting is one big step removed from the item itself. Marc and a few others have reminded us that within the archaeological research community this distinction is apparently also made. How do we tell someone attempting to re-create an exact garment that their study of that garment in-person is in the same category, source-wise, as seeing it or a close variation of it in a painting? We'd have to call the in-person study of extant clothing "zero-ian" sources, or something. ;^P Again, I feel compelled to repeat that I'm not saying such narrow-focused studies of physical items are the pinnacle of clothing research. I personally like the 'big picture' approach combined with up-close-and-personal study of items as they become available. Combining the two ways of study are a perfect marriage, in my opinion, resulting in the most learning. Regardless of the semantic quibble we're having, a good judge in competitions (the origin of this topic) will know the relative value of sources cited in someone's documentation, regardless of that person's labeling of their sources according to "primary", "secondary", and so on. It's my personal desire that people care less about something's official designation as "primary" or "secondary" and more about how much and what kind of information the source actually reveals. In the end, a source needs to be evaluated on its usefulness alone, and not on it's definition of degree of removal from the ultimate 'truth' of that item -- we probably all agree on that, I'm hoping. I am reminded of Plato's theory of forms. In a way, we are seeking the ultimate 'form' of historical clothing, and arguing about how far removed something is or isn't from that form. By Plato's definition, a physical chair is still not the 'form' of a chair, which ties into what Robin says about one extant garment not being the end-all, be-all for that item type as one might at first hope to believe. If your area of study is "Item Type B during X time and in Y place", then one extant example helps, but does not provide ultimate knowledge of those items. If your area of study is "Extant Item Type B-145", then that extant item sure goes a long way toward answering questions about its physical statistics -- a lot more than a painting of a similar version of it will do. It still doesn't answer all questions, though. The "form" is never fully known, I guess. Anyway, I've said enough for now and must go attend to other things. Thanks for listening, -Tasha ===== ***Updated as of November 1, 2003: Aumônière-mania!*** http://www.cottesimple.com An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 13:01:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4I1tOL031925 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:01:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4I0tcC023744; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:00:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4I0sFU019953; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:00:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4I0pFU019910 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:00:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from oldwaylane.net (dialup-171.75.46.226.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net [171.75.46.226]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12405 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:00:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FA7F7EC.7030905@oldwaylane.net> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:03:08 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume References: <20031104123240.I69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> In-Reply-To: <20031104123240.I69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea Leed wrote: > Only "traditional" Saami clothing, which was for the most part a 19th & > 20th century formalization of current folkwear. Here's a pic: > http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/edenpic4.htm > > and a page about the Saami in general: > http://www.itv.se/boreale/samieng1.htm Thanks, I'll add them to my collection. This is the next big research project for me, and I'm trying to find info on the earlier (pre-rickrack and flower bands) time frame. I've got a few pics of more recent, and I was able to examine one man's outfit at a heritage festival last September - the sleeve seam placement was very peculiar. But I want to make sure that styles haven't changed, and looking for pics on trim and ribbons before commercial weaving. > I've always been fascinated by the Saami, since I first found out about > them. Apparently there's some Saami blood in our family... we're 3/4 > Norwegian and 1/8 Swedish, and I've seen photos of Saami men that > look just eerily my father, uncle & grandmother. I have the same > "apple cheeks" and "squinty eyes" as they do. Interesting! And you look so wonderful in your Flemish outfit as well. > It's the music I'm most interested in, though (especially > shamanic jojking), so I haven't looked for costume that much. Actually, there is quite a bit available on joiking. I can give you some artists if you're interested. -Judy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 13:05:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4I5TOL031941 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:05:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4I3ccC024072; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4I3bFU022672; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4I3YFU022548 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:03:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OpNz39QlejSBdPP2jXxN1hk=">; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:03:23 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JD6MNUSB; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:03:23 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:00:51 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair Message-ID: <20031104.100310.500.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-5,7-10,12-70 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO EIYEEEEE!!!!! Ok...just no bumblebees. I look ghastly in yellow. Then again, teal.... :) I think I need to dig out the Medieval Women calendars I saved (and *shame* on Workman Publishing for discontinuing them!!!). Some people never use their heads, and would never notice if it were missing. ;) Arlys On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:01:14 -0800 "Wanda Pease" writes: > Ahh... I can see it now. A lovely caul to cover your hair, a > feather Pizza > hat (Ilaria will have to help with that one) and a puffed and > slashed bumble > bee Cranach style. All we will need is to find someone to donate a > nice > "used" head for you to be Judith :-) > > Regina > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Cynthia J Ley > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:36 PM > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Cc: Cley@juno.com > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair > > > > > > Hi everyone. > > > > > Regarding traction alopecia: > > > > A sort of 'which came first, the baldness or the hennin?' > > > > > > Kat writes: > > > > > I don't think we'll ever know for sure how it started. However, > I > > > suspect that one of the reasons for the changes to a more and > more > > > extreme look is that form followed function. > > > > I'd heard that the hennin style may have been a fashion result of > the > > Plague--many of those who survived suffered hair loss. Is this a > medieval > > urban myth? > > > > One of these days I promise to let Regina talk me into dressing > medieval > > German. My genetic heritage really shows, but I so love English > > history..... ;) > > > > Arlys > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 13:05:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4I5sOL031945 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:05:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4I5BcC024225; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:05:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4I58FU024186; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:05:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4I54FU024123 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip245.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.245]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DE817036D for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:05:02 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:05:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Message-ID: <3FA779D1.29579.232306BE@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <011301c3a2bc$aa69d600$5af08a90@clarke> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > But I'm not American, or Australian. Or from any other sort of melting > pot. I'm English, and pretty much English all the way back (alright, > so with a teensy bit of Irish) and I look very English. Don't assume that because you are English that you are not from a "melting pot." When you consider all the influences to England over the centuries you come to realize that it is not as homogenous as you might think. For example, you could have both Pict (short, dark) and Scandinavian (tall, blond) blood. And there was a lot more migration of people from other places who ended up in England (such as the influx of Jews in various periods and their trying to inculturate so as to be "safer" which sometimes included hiding their religious origins and intermarrying, thus bringing in mediterranean and Eastern European blood) and all the people in trade or conquest who emigrated to England in the past centuries (the Germanic tribes for instance.) And how about slave influxes. (You see a surprising number of what we in the US call "Afro-Americans" in London and on your telly.) And in the future, England will be even more of a melting pot than it has been. The policies on immigration and influx from the former colonies has lead to large populations of people of Indian, Eastern and Middle Eastern descent. So, even if *you* look English, you might still have a lot more "melting" than you might know about. Maybe that's > why hennins were only popular for such a brief period in England, as > opposed to in France and Flanders. Interestingly enough I was wearing > my English hood (a la Jane Seymour) once and someone told me I had the > right sort of face to carry it off. I also do well in those columnar > braids that were so popular in the 14th century. My descent is 3/4 Scottish and 1/4 Swedish. Yet, I "look" English enough that when I was in London for a month, I was frequently thought by the people (locals, not tourists) there to be English (until I opened my mouth, of course.) I've seen photographs of me in Tudor which make me look like I'm straight out of a Holbein. Yet, I have an amazingly high forehead and high cheekbones which also makes me look like I could be a Burgundian lady (although there's no one in the family tree who came from the continent except for a single "Pennsylvania Dutch", ie German, lady who married into the family and whose kids kept marrying Scottish people after that.) My point is that I don't believe that the genetics of France and the adjoining areas was sufficiently different from that of England for someone of English descent to look worse in a Burgundian hennin than for a Burgundian. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 13:06:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4I6qOL031951 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:06:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4I6BcC024332; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:06:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4I69FU025275; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:06:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4I67FU025235 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0B96369DE for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:06:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AH5Z7-0001Kx-00 for ; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:06:05 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] best compliment... was Facial and body types & costume In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20031104083149.00b6ae00@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:06:05 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sarah wrote: > As for looking like I've stepped out of a painting: > http://www.modehistorique.com/images/sarah4.jpg > > (Of course, this is a gag picture. Jen Thompson overlaid my face into > the original portrait using her mad Photoshop skillz. But it still > shows you that I was born about 450 years too late...) Jen did my face with a portrait by Anthonis Mor. You can see it at http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/ Do you think Flemish suits me? I do :) K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 13:13:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4IDAOL031979 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:13:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4ICNcC025069; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:12:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4ICJFU001115; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:12:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4ICDFU000977 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:12:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip245.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.245]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEDA26A850 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:40:26 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:40:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) Message-ID: <3FA7740A.22925.230C771C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-description: Mail message body Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hA4ICDFU000977 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >…need to know. And because I'm basing my interpretation, in such a > >case, on the content of the painting itself, no historian would say > >that the painting is a primary source if I stand in front of it but > >suddenly becomes a secondary source if I work from a photographic > >reproduction. > > Even though content is lost in the photographic process. > > >I were working from someone's *drawing* of the painting, *that's* a > >secondary source. In the same way, I can work from a microfiche of a > >manuscript, and I'm still dealing with the content of the manuscript > >itself -- the words on the paper -- and it's still a primary source > >even if I've never touched the original pages. > > I think it would be debatable – there are still details that can be > lost in the photographic process, more so when the colors are lost in > the black and white reproduction of the fiche. That's why it is helpful to have *both* the redrawing and the picture present. I consider the picture to be of more value, but if done well it may help you to see a fine detail in the "original" which might otherwise be missed. But without the "original", I consider the redrawing to be tertiary at best. Even if the "original" is a painting, it is still something done at the time/place under study and won't be influenced by our modern biases (only the biases appropriate to that time/place.) > >…an individual garment; I'm studying the fashion as a whole. So what > >we're getting here is a visual description of how clothing of this > >general style behaves in wear, presented by someone who has seen (and > >likely worn) clothing of this style in life. > > That’s what you are getting at :) I daresay (based on my subjective > observations of how and where these discussions crop up) that most of > the folks who are researching historical garments are seeing those > paintings as representations of (once) extant garments. And I believe > it is from this perspective that descriptions of “Sources” such as > appear on Cynthia’s page (and even messages I’ve written in the past) > have come about. Sometimes they are representative of extant garments and sometimes they are "studio" garments or iconography. That's why it's so important not to rely on a single source (and, if at all possible, not to rely on a single medium like only paintings or only manuscripts.) And it's important to know enough about the time under study to be able to tell the difference between iconography and what might have been reality. > Absolutely. Although I was really referring to things like memorial > brasses. If one understands the limitations of a medium like memorial brasses, they can still be useful for study. Again, that's why multiple media is important. > Yup. For example, I find your theories on the Gothic Fitted Dress to > be valid and well supported. But until we find some extant garments > that match your hypothesis, your reconstruction is speculative (a term > I do not use in a derogatory manner). By the same token, the book I’m > working on currently is (hopefully) focusing on the evolution of a > process (shoemaking in the Middle Ages) as presented by the > archaeology, experimental reconstructions, and the very limited source > materials such as literature and artwork – in that order. While there > will be some speculation, mostly this will be with regard to > procedures that are not documented from the Middle Ages, but are > traditional in shoemaking, and they will be described as “speculative” > and “traditional”. While I am planning on covering some of the > social context, the record is far too sparse to go too deeply into > that. But even archeology can lead you astray, especially if you don't know the context of the item. Is it grave goods (which might have things only present on a dead person because of religious/superstitious reasons), felon burial (like several of the bog bodies), accidental burial (someone who fell into a swamp or things like the Cheapside Hoard) or something like wall finds (which might have religious/superstitious reasons.) Then add to it the distortion which might be caused (especially in something like shoes) by the burial itself, by the method which is used to restore it, any reconstruction done to it and even the distortions made in a pattern by wearing it over a period of time. This is true for fabrics which is why Kohler was often sooooo off in some of his "patterns.") > >For more practical purposes, it doesn't really matter what you call > >your sources -- primary, secondary, tertiary, etc. What matters is > >that you get as close as you can to the original material, and that > >you learn how to recognize and compensate for the inherent > >inaccuracies in *every* type of source. Amen to that!!!! One must learn to evaluate one's sources, no matter how good they seem at first. Learn to have a "critical eye" (not critical in the sense of negative criticism but in the sense of accurate understanding.0 Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 13:14:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4IEVOL031987 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:14:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IDYcC025216; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IDUFU002283; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:13:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IDSFU002253 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:13:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip245.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.245]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0244C6A4DB for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:07:48 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:13:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair Message-ID: <3FA77BC9.12041.232AB8F5@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031104031852.68797.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Funny, I was speaking to someone today, a very VERY bright woman > > with a masters degree in literature, but who wasn't aware of whether > > or not the sweater she was wearing was knitted or woven. Just > > 'cause you drive a car, doesn't mean you know how to build one, or > > even draw it, even if it's your own, and you're an artist! ;-D > > > That does not relate to whether a Renaissance artist could paint a > dress accurately. Textiles aren't the be-all and end-all of > fortune-making industries these days. Not so in the Renaissance. > Textiles and spices. Actually, it can mean just that in the Renaissance. There are well known paintings where they have gotten the details very wrong about textiles (especially when it comes to things like looms.) Even in tapestries (where you would think that they would have a very good idea of how to weave) the looms are often missing critical parts, yet are very detailed otherwise (so it's not just that they were simplifying.) Sometimes a craftsman in that period would know *about* something but wouldn't know enough to appropriately represent it. And they may have seen a textile which they are trying to paint, but don't have it in front of them to get all the textures correct. If you look at multiple paintings coming out of the same workshop (I'm thinking of some specific ones, but I can't remember where I saw the example), you can see that the master often took more liberties in terms of idealistic portrayal than did some of the students working from the same models. (It might be in Janet Arnold's _Handbook of Costume_ where she discusses this.) And jewels specifically might be made up. (I believe this was one of the reasons that Holbein got into such hot water with Henry VIII over his portrayal of Anne of Cleaves.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 13:17:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4IHJOL032010 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:17:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IGZcC025501; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:16:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IGYFU005167; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:16:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4IGPFU005041 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:16:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 79455 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Nov 2003 18:16:12 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.07086 secs); 04 Nov 2003 18:16:12 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.07086 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 18:16:12 -0000 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:16:16 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume In-Reply-To: <3FA7F7EC.7030905@oldwaylane.net> Message-ID: <20031104131529.S69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Actually, there is quite a bit available on joiking. I can > give you some artists if you're interested. Sure, that would be cool. I have everything Wimme ever recorded, plus the swedish folk music boxed set on saami music, but that's about it. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 13:19:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4IJaOL032019 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:19:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IIncC025838; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:18:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IIlFU007210; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:18:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IIgFU007119 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:18:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip245.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.245]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B2D06AA40 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:18:40 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:18:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair Message-ID: <3FA77D03.32353.232F83F3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031103.144551.1652.0.Cley@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'd heard that the hennin style may have been a fashion result of the > Plague--many of those who survived suffered hair loss. Is this a > medieval urban myth? Definitely urban myth. The major time of the plague was 14th C and the hennins were popular 100 years later (when it had significantly died down.) Also, hennins don't stay on if you don't have enough hair. If you lost hair because of the plague, there wouldn't be enough to hold one on without glue. Kind of like trying to keep it on a bowling ball. ;) There's a late 16th or early 17th C portrait of a woman (Scandinavian or Northern European) who has a bald head which is the pattern you can get from fever. Very elaborate dress and a *big* open neck "ruff" with supportasse. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 13:43:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4IhYOL032254 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:43:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IgfcC028539; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:42:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IgWFU000993; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:42:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IgRFU000833 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:42:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from VALINOR ([65.50.25.96]) by fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20031104184157.SCDO489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:41:57 -0500 From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:42:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <20031104030759.GC13362@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Thread-Index: AcOihubr5p4AT0C9Rv6t+9SdamxTiQAebo9Q X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [65.50.25.96] using ID at Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:41:54 -0500 Message-Id: <20031104184157.SCDO489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll bite...what period do people think I am most suited for? My favourites, costume-wise, are 1100-1400, but wondering if I have the face/body for some other era. Pale skin, short and slight, with narrow shoulders (kind of bony) small bust, short waist and full hips. I have a narrow oval face with very long dark brown hair. Pics: http://images.cosplay.com/showphoto.php?photo=90457 http://sarcasm.fanfic.org/ps-ayumi7s.jpg http://sarcasm.fanfic.org/ps-ayumi16s.jpg -- Maral _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 13:43:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4IhsOL032257 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:43:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IhBcC028600; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:43:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IhAFU001603; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:43:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IgwFU001372 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:42:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69FC536AE4 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:42:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AH68n-0001Ny-00 for ; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:42:57 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume In-Reply-To: <16d.23df5c7a.2cd93bb6@aol.com> References: <16d.23df5c7a.2cd93bb6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:42:57 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Christine wrote: > Basically, I'm about 5'4" (give or take 1/4"), an RTW size 12 with a > mostly-hourglass shape. Need to lose a bit in the gut, but I'm working on that. I'm > very pale (I'm darker-skinned in that photo due to makeup and possibly > re-touching), but the hair and eye-color are fairly accurate, with the exception of > the fact that my hair has some coppery highlights that show up in sunlight (and > are an artifact of a boxer named Red Moran on mom's side and everyone on > dad's side). As for heritage, I'm Italian, Irish, and English. Right now my main > area of study is Elizabethan. Any suggestions? I had some trouble with your URLs, but I ended up just poking around your photo albums and came to your Elizabethan costume photos. Your face reminds me very strongly of a friend who is 100% dutch. I think you'd look great in 15th century Flemish. (Seems like I'm recommending that to everyone lately.) K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 13:47:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4IlgOL032279 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:47:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IkYcC028943; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:46:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IkUFU005006; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:46:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IkLFU004784 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:46:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip245.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.245]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AAEC70354 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:46:18 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:46:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) Message-ID: <3FA7837C.19653.2348CB24@localhost> Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm taking a history course right now and paintings are not considered > a primary source as the painter may or may not be giving us an > accurate depiction of clothing. Paintings are considered excellent > starting point, but it is a secondary source. This is true in > relation to the doctoral dissertation I'm working on. This is not an uncommon way for academics to look at things. However, the same can be said of an extant garment which has had refurbishing and/or reconstruction of its parts. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 13:52:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4IqXOL032330 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:52:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IkpcC028989; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:46:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IknFU005334; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IkPFU004889 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:46:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip245.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.245]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D492703C0 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:46:21 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:46:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) Message-ID: <3FA7837C.21252.2348C9DC@localhost> Priority: normal References: <20031103185732.36279.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > But the whole idea of using "primary" and "secondary" to distinguish > degrees of removal from the artifact, for sources still within the > same time-place context, just leaves me scratching my head. This > redefinition of terminology seems to have become pervasive in SCA > circles among people who really, truly want to promote good use of > sources. In addition to Cynthia's article and Tasha's post, I see the > same thing on Kass's site at > http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/research.html , under > "Types of Sources." All three of these ladies known for doing good > research, and all three seem to have picked up this same set of new > distinctions, so clearly these ideas are getting a lot of play out > there in re-enactment circles. I can only guess that this originated > in a good-faith attempt to teach people to find and use the best > sources, and somehow developed into a far-too-literal use of the > conventional terms. I think that most of this has come from academia and has segued into the SCA circles from there. And the problem with that is that different disciplines consider different things to be "primary" which really makes things confusing. For example, in some disciplines *nothing* that is written (be it a will, inventory, letter, legal statute, whatever) is anything better than "tertiary". Only pictoral sources count. In some disciplines, if it isn't written down, it's at best "secondary. Most of the more experienced people I know try more to look at "good source vs bad source." For example, I consider most redrawings (that is, drawings done in a time outside of the time/place of the "artist") to be tertiary. However, some are decidedly better than others. For example, I'd take a drawing from one of the CW Cunnington books over anything from Wilcox. (The same artist who did the drawings when CW was still alive also did them for his wife alone. CW obviously forced the artist to be more acccurate than his wife later did.) I'd take a drawing done in an archeology article over one done by most other artists. Mostly because of the difference between "accuracy of portrayal" and "getting the general idea." I don't want to use as documentation something that has been synthesized already. That to me makes it tertiary. I want it to be as close to the original source as possible. > I would be very interested in hearing from some of the other people on > the list who work in academic areas. I won't rule out that maybe > there's been some huge terminology change that I've somehow missed in > the years that I've been active in the field. I know that there have been major terminology shifts over time. Even in the SCA there have been major shifts. For example, when I started even portraiture was acceptable as a "primary" source, but I've heard from many people that even a photograph of an extant garment is not considered "primary." > It's also possible that these definitions are specific to the field of > material culture. Material culture research poses some different > issues for historical study compared with the "conventional" study of > history, where the definitions of "primary" and "secondary" sources > originated. And perhaps material culture needs a new set of terms to > cover some of these distinctions that are not so vital for people who > are studying, say, events. (You can't put your hands on an extant > event -- so your primary sources are going to be mostly text and > images.) I suspect that this is where it all is coming from and the SCA circles just picked it up. > Even so, I think that the literalmindedness that is leading some > people to say that only the artifact is "primary" threatens to > reinforce the tunnelvision I see in some people who do > reenactment-based research, who focus strictly on "how is this thing > made" without ever becoming aware of such issues as "in what social > context would it have been worn," or "what messages would wearing this > item have sent to people of the time," or "what are the economic > factors involved in the choice of techniques and materials." These are > all vital questions that won't be solved just by examination of an > artifact; they require use of other primary -- yes, primary -- sources > from the period, including text and images and other types of > archaeological evidence. All those pieces of information are necessary > to create a complete context for "history of dress," and "history of > dress" covers a darn sight more than "how was it made." This is soooo true. For how long did archeology have cardweaving cards listed as either gaming pieces or religious articles? It takes understanding their context to really understand it's use and the like. It's very difficult to interpret any source without knowing its context. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 13:53:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4IreOL032350 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:53:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IlrcC029177; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:47:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IlmFU006434; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:47:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from web01-imail.rogers.com (web01-imail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4IliFU006289 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:47:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from VALINOR ([65.50.25.96]) by web01-imail.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20031104184734.TFSR159496.web01-imail.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:47:34 -0500 From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:47:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <04f801c3a23f$13f07170$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Thread-Index: AcOiQThwqTkh5l8OSNKK/hWPG4FLhgAwr1Gw X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at web01-imail.rogers.com from [65.50.25.96] using ID at Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:47:30 -0500 Message-Id: <20031104184734.TFSR159496.web01-imail.rogers.com@VALINOR> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh yeah, should mention that I'm a mutt. My father's side is Armenian, from Turkey via Lebanon, and my mother's side is a mishmash of Irish, Scottish and Welsh. -.-;; So I'm not sure what on earth that makes me. *lol* -- Maral _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 14:04:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4J45OL032455 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:04:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4J35cC001229; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:03:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4J33xQ021269; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4J22xQ020257 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03830 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:26:05 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:26:05 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id hA4J22xQ020257 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Marc Carlson wrote: > >The "traditional" definition of "secondary source" involves an added >level > >of interpretation, not just an added level of separation. > > Traditional, huh? The definition I’ve been using for the past 25 > years has had to do with potential for loss of information, which is > merely simplified to levels of separation. Sorry, I was trying to find a shorthand way to distinguish between the two parallel lines of research approach we've identified. I had the (perhaps erroneous) sense that the "historic/events" approach was probably older, and that the terms common to historians took on new meanings when applied to the "archaeology/materials" approach. I've got a historian's background and the sense that the terms of historiography are "old," but truth is, I have no idea which avenue the terms originated with. Do I at least get Brownie points for putting "traditional" in quotes, knowing that we'd already established that for my work, I'm referring to the terms as conventional historians use them as opposed to the way archaeologists use them? > Looking through the various definitions online, I’m not seeing sufficient > consistency of interpretation to declare a single version “traditional“ :) Hmm. Did you find *any* online definitions that describe the level-of-separation distinction that you've described as common in archaeology, and that Cynthia and others are using for SCA? I didn't see any in my browse, save for the SCA pages like Kass's. > >...source once removed" to describe a noninterpretive level of > >separation, which I hadn't heard before, but I think captures the > >distinction better. Using "secondary" to mean any step of removal, without > >considering the matter of introduced interpretation, loses a nuance that's > >important for the set of >definitions as used in my end of the field. > > Considering the inconsistency of usage, I doubt that the terms were intended > to undergo this degree of scrutiny. Actually, the element of an added level of interpretation -- the filtering through another person who was not a first-hand witness to the event -- is part of the definition of "secondary" source in all three definitions on the Yale site . You'll see the same thing at (warning! big page!). It's a key part of the distinction of how I learned the terms. Here's another example that will probably give some people headaches. As I mentioned earlier, in the usage I'm accustomed to, a source's status as primary doesn't change depending on the way I view the source. The painting is a primary source whether I look at it upside down, through sunglasses, through the magnifying zoom on my camera lens, or via a photoreproduction. My research will suffer if I don't view it properly, of course, but my bad scholarship won't affect the source's status as primary as long as it represents firsthand experience with the event I'm studying. So when I cite a painting as an example in a paper, I footnote the painting; I don't footnote the museum postcard I used to view the painting. Now (here's the headache example): Suppose I know that there's an item in some obscure location I can't get to. I have reproductions, but I can't view it myself. It's not at all unreasonable for me to call up a friend who has access to it and say something like, "Lea, can you run up the street to the church at Long Melford and count how many of the stained glass donor panels have women in heraldic gowns or mantles? I've got some pictures in a book here that shows 16 of them, and I know there are 36 original panels remaining that are all consistent in style and made by the same shop. I just need to know how many of them have heraldic women." Lea, as it happens, knows quite a bit about heraldry and knows my terms. I can use the information she gives me in a paper and cite my source as the windows in the church, with a word of thanks to my friend Lea. The windows are a primary source. I had sufficient information (between good photoreproductions and the mechanical counting by my friend) to feel secure that I am reporting the information directly from the source; there was no level of interpretation involved till I got to it. Now, if I asked Lea to identify the individual donors for me based on their heraldry, I'm relying on a secondary source -- Lea's interpretation of the primary source. (Footnote for that reads: "Harris, Lea. Personal communication, Nov. 3, 2003.") In supplying the information on the windows' manufacture, I cite a secondary source ("A History of the Church at Long Melford" or "English Stained Glass Monuments" or whatever). And if someone quotes my interpretation of what the numbers signify, I'm a secondary source for them. How this would work in your field, Marc, I have no idea. I would expect there are times when you email an expert overseas and ask, "Hey, can you have a look at shoe find number 257 and tell me if the latchet is intact?" based on a catalog entry that refers to the shoe as being latchet style. (Yes, I know I'm probably making hash of the terms, but it's not my field, and I'm trying to come up with an example.) Based on the reply, you could then safely say "An example of an extant shoe with a surviving intact latchet exists in X museum." Presumably the shoe itself is a primary source. Does your knowledge of it, being long-distance, cause the shoe to become a secondary source? That's rhetorical, and you don't need to answer it -- because we both know what really matters is whether the shoe, and your information on it, is reliable, making it a *useful* or *good* source, no matter what label we put on it. Where this makes a practical difference is in situations like Chris raised: When well-meaning competition rules state that you have to have X number of primary sources. If you're going by the "archaeological/materials/Marc/Cynthia" school, very few people will ever meet the competition's standard -- how many SCA members are going to file into the National Museum of Denmark asking for a first-hand look at Herjolfsnes 63 so they can use it as a primary source in their documentation? I'm sure the person who wrote such rules was working off the "historical/events/Robin" set of definitions, and was probably a lot more concerned with getting entrants to look at Norlund rather than Norris, not on trying to disqualify the person who uses Norlund because she can't see the real thing in Denmark. There are still a lot of people in the SCA who have never cracked an art book in researching their costumes. (I got an email a couple of weeks ago from someone who wanted me to tell her where she could find a medieval picture of a "cotehardie," preferably online, because she needed one for her documentation, and she had never seen one herself, though OF COURSE she knew they existed and how to make one!) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 14:10:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4JAOOL032468 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:10:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4J9OcC002018; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4J9NxQ027161; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:09:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4J9KxQ027122 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:09:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.95] (pm7-095.eos.net [205.133.149.95]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4J9HmH010374 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:09:17 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:10:49 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311041213.hA4CDaqC022992@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: girl with a pearl earring X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The site won't run for me. :-( So I can't comment on it. But I have read the book the movie is based on, and it's very good. Not what I would call melodramatic at all, but certainly dramatic. I am curious to see what they do with it. And if Colin Firth is in it, I'll go! As for the painting ... I used to have a large poster of it in my college dorm room, and always loved it. The earring looks like a pearl to me! About 8 years ago I got to see the painting when the Smithsonian did its sublime Vermeer exhibit, something I will always remember. I was surprised to see how small many of his paintings are. That one is just about life sized, not huge like my poster. And when you see it from the other side of a room, it looks as if the girl had just turned her head to look at you, and she is in love with you. It's as emotional as it is beautiful, really. I suppose that was the inspiration for the novel, which is about a maid who poses for Vermeer and their mysterious relationship, which was in the book a love affair of an unusual nature. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 14:13:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4JDQOL032480 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:13:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4J2acC001128; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:02:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4J2VxQ020754; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:02:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4J0dxQ018931 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 43113 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Nov 2003 19:00:30 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.343288 secs); 04 Nov 2003 19:00:30 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.343288 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 19:00:30 -0000 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:00:34 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume In-Reply-To: <20031104184157.SCDO489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> Message-ID: <20031104135637.C69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow...you have Burgundian written all over you! :) Seriously, I think you would look perfect in a late 15th c. Burgundian V-necked gown, with a tall hennin. It would set off your figure smashingly, and your high forehead would be perfect for the headwear of the time. Or a 1380s gothic fitted dress/cotehardie, which would allow you to show off your hair as well. Drea On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Herself-the-Elf wrote: > I'll bite...what period do people think I am most suited for? My > favourites, costume-wise, are 1100-1400, but wondering if I have the > face/body for some other era. > > Pale skin, short and slight, with narrow shoulders (kind of bony) small > bust, short waist and full hips. I have a narrow oval face with very long > dark brown hair. > > Pics: http://images.cosplay.com/showphoto.php?photo=90457 > http://sarcasm.fanfic.org/ps-ayumi7s.jpg > http://sarcasm.fanfic.org/ps-ayumi16s.jpg > > > -- Maral > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 14:26:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4JQmOL032524 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:26:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4JPqcC003731; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:25:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4JPnxQ013307; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:25:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4JPbxQ013108 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:25:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip4.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.4]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 021216A586 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:19:56 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:25:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) Message-ID: <3FA78CB1.18926.236CC2D8@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20834564.1067965119404.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In my not-so-humble opinion, a whole lot of the confusion and anguish > about primary, secondary, tertiary etc. sources stems from the simple > fact that some competitions have rules -- usually graven on stone > tablets somewhere -- that require a certain number of references of > each type. (I.e. "two primary sources or one primary and two > secondary") > > I personally think the writers of such rules, however well-intended, > should be taken out and, er, nonviolently persuaded (operatic arias at > ten paces?). I think such rules cause contestant anguish far above and > beyond their intended purpose, simply because it _is_ often difficult > for the inexperienced to understand the differences. That's why any competition rules should have definitions of things of this sort *carefully* defined. I think that competitions and the like need to have some sort of limits on what is considered minimal, acceptable, laudable in regards to evaluation of sources. If properly defined, it at least makes it somewhat workable. It would be helpful if judges could also be properly trained. However, I've noticed in our A&S judging that even when we hold sessions for that sort of thing (so that all the judges are on the same page as far as evaluating a source without using primary/secondary/etc.) they don't bother to attend (and then they mess it up.) For example, we had a training session for judges to explain the criteria and how they were supposed to be evaluated. The 2 of the judges doing the metalwork section (which my husband entered) downgraded him on his sources because he didn't have any written information about the item. He had his oral presentation and had brought primary sources (some archeological specimens). They *only* gave him credit for his oral presentation (2 out of 5 points) instead of giving him credit for his primary source (which would have given him 5/5 points.) He didn't really care, but I pointed it out to the organizers since it meant that those judges had either not attended the judges session or had totally disregarded the rules or had no idea about what they were doing. (The 3rd judge knew better and gave him the appropriate points.) > I wish such rules could more sensibly say that sources closer to the > original items get you more points, and let it go at that. So then, how do you spread the points in terms of the sources. It will still come down to making sure everyone is on the same page as far as the definitions are concerned and that the judges have enough saavy to be able to discern the closeness. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 14:30:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4JUgOL032537 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:30:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4JTlcC004178; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:29:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4JTbxQ017287; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:29:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav54.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4JTUxQ017071 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:29:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:29:25 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav54.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:29:24 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FA77BC9.12041.232AB8F5@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:28:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2003 19:29:25.0271 (UTC) FILETIME=[F4BF3270:01C3A309] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Sometimes a craftsman in that period would know *about* something but > wouldn't know enough to appropriately represent it. And they may have > seen a textile which they are trying to paint, but don't have it in > front of them to get all the textures correct. Just grab a piece of paper and try to draw a bicycle, without looking at a picture. It's not as easy as it sounds, for most people, even if it's something we've all used and/or owned before, and seen frequently. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 14:31:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4JVNOL032544 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:31:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4JUQcC004222; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:30:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4JUMxQ018082; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:30:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4JTwxQ017657 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:30:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id NAA28678 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:29:54 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: girl with a pearl earring Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:29:53 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got the site to work for me; even the movie trailer. Would love to see one of those coffee-table books on the making of this movie and the soundtrack, but neither is listed on Amazon.com or B&N. Also found a two-page article in the latest Victorian Decorating magazine. It is the Christmas issue #52. pp. 84-5 have a two page article with "teaser" pictures on the exibit at the Wadsworth Atheneum Museuam of Art in Hartford CT, Nov 11-March 7 2004. Entitled "Fashion and Fantasy 1898-1908" it covers the decoration and fashion styles of this era, including the fascination with Art Nouveau, Japonism, and dress reform, judging froom the pictures shown. Alas, it is not mentioned on the museum's website, although I did email them to see if there would be brochures, photos or even a book on this exibition I could obtain. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 14:57:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4JvHOL032653 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:57:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4JuMcC006659; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:56:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4JuGJs011443; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:56:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4JuEJs011404 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:56:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.151]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:55:24 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject ofDocumentation) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:56:12 -0500 Message-ID: <004101c3a30d$b36970c0$7048ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <3FA7837C.21252.2348C9DC@localhost> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In addition to Cynthia's article and Tasha's post, I see the > same thing on Kass's site at > http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/research.html , under > "Types of Sources." All three of these ladies known for doing good > research, and all three seem to have picked up this same set of new > distinctions, so clearly these ideas are getting a lot of play out > there in re-enactment circles. I can only guess that this originated > in a good-faith attempt to teach people to find and use the best > sources, and somehow developed into a far-too-literal use of the > conventional terms. And all three of us know each other fairly well and have discussed these things at length. I wouldn't be surprised if we learned these things from one another to a greater or lesser extent. I've been wracking my brain all day trying to figure out where I got this from. I have a dim recollection of learning it in graduate school, but my graduate degree is in Human Communications, not Textiles or Art History, so I'm still rather perplexed. All I can state with any certainty is that I learned these distinctions before I joined the SCA because I distinctly remember having to explain them over and over again to people I met during my brief jaunt in that organization (which was part of the reason for my webpage on the subject). This leads me to believe that I learned them in reenactment circles. I remember quite clearly someone telling me in no uncertain terms that my notes on the Shinrone gown were a secondary, not a primary, source because they were my notes, not the actual gown and therefore had room for error. This incident happened before I was involved in the SCA. Cynthia? Do you remember where you first learned these distinctions? Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 15:12:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4KCSOL000323 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:12:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4KBkcC008190; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:11:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4KBeJs026869; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:11:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4KBbJs026803 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:11:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157])id hA4JjGs12088 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:45:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.167.48] (helo=wamui10.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AH775-0006WD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:45:15 -0500 Message-ID: <16453295.1067975115932.JavaMail.root@wamui10.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:45:15 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] has anyone seen this book? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I find that the older I get, the more I appreciate books that have BIG pictures! -----Original Message----- From: Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Nov 4, 2003 5:59 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] has anyone seen this book? Dawn. You simply must have this book. High resolution colour pages after pages of wonderfull closeup details of exquisite costumes. Lots of information and lots of inspiration for you. You simply must have it! ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 15:31:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4KVsOL000534 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:31:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4KUucC010168; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:30:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4KUoJs015474; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:30:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4KUlJs015412 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:30:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04422 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:54:51 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:54:51 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject ofDocumentation) In-Reply-To: <004101c3a30d$b36970c0$7048ccd1@Kass> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Kass McGann wrote: > I remember quite clearly someone telling me in no uncertain terms that > my notes on the Shinrone gown were a secondary, not a primary, source > because they were my notes, not the actual gown and therefore had room > for error. This incident happened before I was involved in the SCA. Now wait a second. You mean someone actually said you were using a secondary source because you made notes when you examined and handled the original? My head hurts. That's really going overboard. By that definition, the only way you could have a "primary source" would be if you brought the dress in and waved it in their face! It's true that the written materials you produce on the basis of your examination would be a secondary source -- but only for someone else who hasn't studied the actual garment. The gown itself is a primary source by every definition we've heard so far. So in your examination of the gown, you're using a primary source. A paper or article or set of notes you produce on the basis of that primary-source research *becomes* a secondary source if cited in someone else's work. Evidently someone was confused about the difference between input and output. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 15:56:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4Ku7OL000619 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:56:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4KtHcC012899; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:55:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4KssJs009217; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:54:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4KsRJs008825 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:54:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.235]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:53:34 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the SubjectofDocumentation) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:54:22 -0500 Message-ID: <004801c3a315$d46315d0$7048ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin asked: <> Yup. In no uncertain terms. Robin then said: <> Yes. I remember investigating the definitions at that point and coming to the conclusion that the person in question was wrong and that I was using a primary source. Someone who quoted my notes or a paper written using my notes would be using a secondary source. In the intervening years, I've found these numeric distinctions to be rather poor in terms of judging suitability. Pictures can be drawn from life or copied from pictures that were copied from other pictures, carrying the same mistake all down the line. Textual sources can contain bias. Any number of things can get in the way of the truth. That's why I love extant garments so much. They are what they are. The whys or wherefores are fun to think about, but in the end all you have to go on is what's in your hands. They may or may not be typical of the period. But at least when you make a replica of the Shinrone gown, it's a replica of the Shinrone gown. Know what I mean? Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 17:05:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4M4xOL001328 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:05:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4M41cC020329; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4M3wfD016870; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:03:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4M3tfD016753 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:03:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_dev1.2.) id 6.150.2639bca6 (2519) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:03:44 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <150.2639bca6.2cd97c40@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:03:44 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: girl with a pearl earring To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/4/2003 2:10:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: > And when you see it from the other side of a room, it > looks as if the girl had just turned her head to look at you, Yes! Vermeer seems to be able to render time. There always seems to be a moment before the "snapshot" of the painting and a moment after. He can also paint air. It's like there's an atmosphere between the picture plane and the girl pouring milk. How does he DO that??? Interestingly Edward Hopper can do these too. With a slightly more lonely effect. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 17:08:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4M8DOL001384 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:08:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4M7TcC020658; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:07:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4M7FfD020088; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:07:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4M74fE019724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:07:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA4M6RPX009138 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:06:27 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:06:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA8233C.1020903@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:07:56 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject ofDocumentation) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > My head hurts. That's really going overboard. By that definition, the only > way you could have a "primary source" would be if you brought the dress in > and waved it in their face! It serves to illustrate why some of us in the SCA end up gnawing pencils in half. Someone told me on an email list about a reproduction fork he made, and he had an actual elizabethan fork as his source, and he was downgraded for not citing books. It's very important not to get too hidebound, whatever your field. And sadly, some of the SCA competition rules have fallen into that mire. I hope someone gives me a gentle kick if I get to that point. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Then came the news that margarine’s trans fat may be even worse than butter’s saturated fat, which threw millions of confused consumers back into the butter camp." Butter Camp? Where do I sign up? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 17:18:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4MICOL001513 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:18:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4MHNcC021812; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:17:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4MHLfD029718; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:17:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4MHHfD029618 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:17:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from p121-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.121] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AH9U9-0002P8-00; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:17:14 +1300 Message-ID: <00df01c3a321$64d5b040$79c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FA7BA2D.8030801@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject ofDocumentation) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:17:10 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO <> I have no problem with realising I will only very rarely have access to primary sourses of actual garments (not primary sources of portraits.. well ok so there is *one* from the 16thC in my city;) ) but that's fine as a lot of people have and taken wonderful notes/photos etc of them and they can be wonderful secondary sources. The people doing the studying may in fact have a better grasp of what to look for or at least explain better what they are seeing. For example I might be able to take note of the weave, but not know the actual weave. Primary for me is the actual object. Secondary is one step away.. a photo of an extant garment, a painting from the time. Tertiary is a photo of a painting, or maybe a reworking of a photo... of course by the time we get things on to the net it may well be a quartenary source;) That said the last source may be still a wonderful source. The detail may be higher than say a secondary source of a photo of a painting you took in the museum/gallery. For anyone using the images anyway. You may well remember the detail the photo doesn't show. I'd never get hung up of trying to get primary or secondary sources, just comparing as many different ideas/photos/notes about something. A case in point is a painting by the Master of the Hausbooks. A pair of lovers. In Max von Boehn's book the painting is in b/w and very small. Then I saw a reproduction of the painting in a book from the mueum it is housed in and shows the woman's dress to be a teal colour. Then on the cover of The Medieval Art of Love it's a very dark blue. So what colour is it? Even seeing the primary source may not answer the question as there may be some colour shifting over the years anyway. The colour may now be teal (as I suspect seeing as that is the colour in the Museums book) but it may well have originally been the drak blue of the other book. I'll be looking forward to your revised article Cynthia:) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 17:20:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4MKaOL001539 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:20:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4MJjcC022163; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:19:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4MJifD002207; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:19:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4MJefD002147 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:19:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.235]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:18:50 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: girl with a pearl earring Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:19:39 -0500 Message-ID: <005001c3a321$bd97db40$7048ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <150.2639bca6.2cd97c40@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How does he DO that??? >>>> They say he used the camera obscura in his work. Apparently it helped him make things look so real. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 17:29:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4MTAOL001636 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:29:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4MSBcC023103; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:28:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4MS8fD010461; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:28:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4MS1fD010297 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:28:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from p121-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.121] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AH9eY-00037e-00; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:27:59 +1300 Message-ID: <015f01c3a322$e91f3d20$79c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031104092055.F69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:28:02 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If anyone is bored and feels like telling me of another style they think I really should do let me know;) Plenty of fabric in the storage bins to make stuff from;) http://glittersweet.com Being blonde now turning copper and being half dutch half scottish I tend to favour the clothes that do suit that... late 15thC and early 16thC garb from around the lowlands.. so that incompases a few influences. Figurewise with being very small in the bust you'd think 15thC works best and it does to a degree but with a huge round ribcage it can be difficult;) Then agaihn, most people don't recognise me from one photo to another so I do tend to be able to play around with eras. The roundness of my face is rather ideal for 18thC, especially with the little lips I have. Haven't tried Elzabethan, but I am contemplating some late Spanish stuff. Like the Elizabeth de Valois portrait.. solid black, large hanging sleeves, minimal surface decorathion. Face wise this might work, but I am nervous about the body. Black also is my best colour, even right up next to the face. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 18:30:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4NUnOL002114 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:30:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4NU0cC000515; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:30:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4NTt1r006305; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:29:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4NTp1r006194 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:29:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.ad.3582f228 (17228) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:29:34 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:29:34 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: girl with a pearl earring To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/4/2003 5:20:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, historian@reconstructinghistory.com writes: > How does he DO that??? > >>>> > They say he used the camera obscura in his work. Apparently it helped > him make things look so real. > Yes.....but it's something more than mere realism. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 18:37:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4NbcOL002162 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:37:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Nb1cC001189; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Nb01r012427; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Nau1r012373 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:36:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.162.100] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A74E43E0170; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:33:34 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031104031852.68797.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031104031852.68797.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:49:22 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > --- Rima wrote: > >I said: > >> Funny, I was speaking to someone today, a very VERY bright woman with >> a masters degree in literature, but who wasn't aware of whether or >> not the sweater she was wearing was knitted or woven. Just 'cause >> you drive a car, doesn't mean you know how to build one, or even draw > > it, even if it's your own, and you're an artist! ;-D > >That does not relate to whether a Renaissance artist could paint a >dress accurately. Textiles >aren't the be-all and end-all of fortune-making industries these >days. Not so in the Renaissance. >Textiles and spices. > >A car is a mechanical thing. Not all artists are adept at drawing >cars. Or clothing for that >matter. But Renaissance portrait artists were. They were the experts >in their field, just as your >masters in literature has her speciality. I see your point. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one..... ; -D > > >That, perhaps, has more to do with the art movement during which >> >most of the dancers I see were >> >depicted - impressionism? >> > > Not really..... still happens to this very day.... > >Yes, to some extent, but then other movements, other means of >expression in art have come about. >This does not mean that the same applied to the 16th century. We >must remember that the >Renaissance was an ideal the brought about changes - the human as >master of his/her destiny. This >is why portraiture came about. In such a climate the human being >began to be depicted with ever >increasing levels of realism. I'm not talking about style, I'm talking about WRONG. Like, it doesn't matter HOW you paint a henin, if you put it on Elizabeth, it's WRONG. Or at least, not accurate. ;-D > > I would hope that even an artist who's inspired to be faithful would > > find other inspiration besides.... > >Painting in general is an area where inspiration is needed, yes. >Portraiture on the other hand >does not require inspiration. It merely requires a good eye for >detail and an ability with the >human form. I know some artists who would slap you with a glove and ask you to name your seconds for saying that! ;-D > > artists aren't photographers, > >In the sixteenth century they were. That was the closest thing to photography. Yes, but they were also still artists. I think we might have to agree to disagree on this one too..... >I doubt that Titian, the greatest Venetian painter ever, was ever >insulted by being asked to Rome >to paint Emperor Charles V on horseback. NO NO NO NO, that's not what I meant! > One has to understand that >narrative painting and portraiture were two different things in the >Renaissance, and both were >equally prized, albeit for different reasons. Right. But that doesn't negate what I was saying: Painting in ANY era is subject to the following foibles: 1. The ability of the artist to accurately depict what is before them (which, despite our considering them "experts" may or may not have been accurate, unless you have the actual garment in front of you to compare with the painting) 2. The motivation of the artist, which might be influenced by other matters (which neither you nor I cannot possibly know, since we are not him) 3. The outside influences on the artist - politics, pressures, 4. Restoration or other changes made to the work of which we are not yet aware 5. Other stuff neither of us have thought of yet. My point was, WE CANNOT KNOW. We can only hope that what they painted is what they saw, or at least close. > > I love having someone to argue this stuff with, even if we don't > > quite agree! ;-D > >I always enjoy a debate if it's well argued and scholarly. :) And debated with open hearts and minds. ;-D Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 18:38:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4Nc1OL002168 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:38:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4NbDcC001227; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:37:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4NbC1r012565; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:37:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Nat1r012356 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:36:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.162.100] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A74C43E0170; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:33:32 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031104030759.GC13362@net.indra.com> References: <032901c3a277$46ee82f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> <20031104030759.GC13362@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:39:50 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > what would y'all suggest for someone who is all shoulders/bust with no hips >> or waist and an olive complexion and angular face (my hair is anachronistic >> for all historic time periods - I rely on hats or wigs). >> Allison T. > >Sounds perfect for Italian Ren! Here's a nice page: > http://pweb.jps.net/~lynnmcm/miditalian.html > > ...eliz This is exactly what I do! I have that same olive skin and dark hair.... Anybody else doing Ital Ren? Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 18:38:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4Nc5OL002171 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:38:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4NbOcC001253; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:37:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4NbL1r012729; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:37:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Naw1r012394 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:36:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.162.100] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A74F43E0170; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:33:35 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FA753B8.3090504@misc.com> References: <3FA753B8.3090504@misc.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:14:23 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Girl with a Pearl Earring Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Thanks for the advance notice!!! Nice site - costumes (garb??) look >very good from this distance but the plot sounds a bit >melodramatic!!! LOL! Well, it's a MOVIE.... and movies have an inner life of their own, which has everything to do with the Internal Workings Of A Silly Business, and NOTHING to do with trying to present an accurate historic portrayal.... >But, Colin Firth as Vermeer has got _my_ attention. I'll be first in line! >Theresa Eacker Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 18:57:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4NvpOL002299 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:57:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Nv5cC003869; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:57:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Nv20V028692; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA4Nux0V028599 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:56:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F53C425D0 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:01:19 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FA83D3E.9040109@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:58:54 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: girl with a pearl earring References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > >>How does he DO that??? >> >>They say he used the camera obscura in his work. Apparently it helped >>him make things look so real. >> > > > Yes.....but it's something more than mere realism. A lot of it is in the way he painted light, shadows, reflections and luminousity from reflected surfaces. You almost never see outside the windows, but you always see the light coming in them, reflected off pearls ( a popular accessory) or other household objects. There is a nice little book on Vermeer, put out by Taschen, that I've been seeing in the remaindered section of local bookstores. Anyone interested in the paintings might consider picking it up. The pictures are clear and well reproduced, and the text covers the subjects well without being pedantic. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 19:07:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5078OL002374 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:07:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA506TcC004810; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:06:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA506R0V005568; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:06:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA506P0V005547 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:06:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.46]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:05:34 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: girl with a pearl earring Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:06:23 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c3a330$a6bcbad0$2e48ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > How does he DO that??? > >>>> > They say he used the camera obscura in his work. Apparently it helped > him make things look so real. > Yes.....but it's something more than mere realism. >>>> So is the effect of the camera obscura I'm given to understand. I don't know the specifics of the technology, but it gives things a glow that couldn't be seen elsewise. I think this article captures something of what I'm trying to describe: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/art/vermeer_camera_04.shtml If anyone can better explain what the camera obscura does, please help. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 19:22:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA50M2OL002474 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:22:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA50LMcC006582; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:21:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA50LK0V016140; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:21:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA50LI0V016109 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:21:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.162.100] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1B362021C; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 16:17:55 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FA83D3E.9040109@reddawn.net> References: <3FA83D3E.9040109@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:17:55 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: girl with a pearl earring Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >> >>>How does he DO that??? >>> >>>They say he used the camera obscura in his work. Apparently it helped >>him make things look so real. >> >>Yes.....but it's something more than mere realism. > >A lot of it is in the way he painted light, shadows, reflections and >luminousity from reflected surfaces. You almost never see outside >the windows, but you always see the light coming in them, reflected >off pearls ( a popular accessory) or other household objects. > >There is a nice little book on Vermeer, put out by Taschen, that >I've been seeing in the remaindered section of local bookstores. >Anyone interested in the paintings might consider picking it up. The >pictures are clear and well reproduced, and the text covers the >subjects well without being pedantic. > >Dawn I think y'all just proved that there IS (at times) art in portraiture! Rima EWG _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 19:28:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA50SUOL002522 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:28:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA50RrcC007124; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:27:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA50Rr0V020258; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:27:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f59.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA50Rn0V020186 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:27:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:27:44 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.39 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:27:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.39] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 18:27:43 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2003 00:27:44.0502 (UTC) FILETIME=[A1851960:01C3A333] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Robin Netherton >Sorry, I was trying to find a shorthand way to distinguish between the two >parallel lines of research approach we've identified. That's all right, I was just teasing. And having just gone through all my historiography texts, there IS a wide range of interpretations, although centered around that same concept. >Hmm. Did you find *any* online definitions that describe the >level-of-separation distinction that you've described as common in >archaeology, and that Cynthia and others are using for SCA? I didn't see >any in my browse, save for the SCA pages like Kass's. You know, I wouldn't actually pin Kass's site with that label :) I don't recall saying it was "common", I said it was how I was trained. And no, most of the web pages seem to give a wide array of definitions of "secondary sources". OTOH, this doesn't mean that you are going to convince me that working with working with line drawings and photographs of a garment is just as good as working with the garment itself :) > > Considering the inconsistency of usage, I doubt that the terms were >intended > > to undergo this degree of scrutiny. >Actually, the element of an added level of interpretation -- the filtering >through another person who was not a first-hand witness to the event -- is >part of the definition of "secondary" source in all three definitions on >the Yale site . You'll >see the same thing at >(warning! big page!). It's a key part of the distinction of how I learned >the terms. Really? Gosh - learn something new every day. Robin - that wasn't what I was talking about. >Here's another example that will probably give some people headaches. As I >mentioned earlier, in the usage I'm accustomed to, a source's status as >primary doesn't change depending on the way I view the source. The >painting is a primary source whether I look at it upside down, through >sunglasses, through the magnifying zoom on my camera lens, or via a >photoreproduction. My research will suffer if I don't view it properly, of >course, but my bad scholarship won't affect the source's status as primary >as long as it represents firsthand experience with the event I'm studying. >So when I cite a painting as an example in a paper, I footnote the >painting; I don't footnote the museum postcard I used to view the >painting. See, and I would footnote the postcard. I keep index cards of various forms of footwear found in this place or that. And I have them color coded by card as to whether they are archaeological examples, just photographs, or taken from paintings or drawings from books. >How this would work in your field, Marc, I have no idea. I would expect >there are times when you email an expert overseas and ask, "Hey, can you >have a look at shoe find number 257 and tell me if the latchet is intact?" >based on a catalog entry that refers to the shoe as being latchet style. >(Yes, I know I'm probably making hash of the terms, but it's not my field, >and I'm trying to come up with an example.) Based on the reply, you could >then safely say "An example of an extant shoe with a surviving intact >latchet exists in X museum." Presumably the shoe itself is a primary >source. Does your knowledge of it, being long-distance, cause the shoe to >become a secondary source? No, the pers.comm. is the secondary source - I just don't have access to the primary source. Even if I ask my good buddy to go and check for me. It's a good secondary source, and hopefully I can rely on his skills to see whether or not whatever is intact, but it's better if it can be verified. You may recall the discussion last year about the "St. Louis Shirt" on the 75years list? I still have never seen the actual garment - what I have are the observations of several people (including yourself), analysis of photographs and so on - trying to sort out the verifiable information. >That's rhetorical, and you don't need to answer it -- because we both know >what really matters is whether the shoe, and your information on it, is >reliable, making it a *useful* or *good* source, no matter what label we >put on it. That's ok. >Where this makes a practical difference is in situations like Chris >raised: When well-meaning competition rules state that you have to have X >number of primary sources. If you're going by the >"archaeological/materials/Marc/Cynthia" school, very few people will ever >meet the competition's standard -- how many SCA members are going to file >into the National Museum of Denmark asking for a first-hand look at >Herjolfsnes 63 so they can use it as a primary source in their >documentation? I'm sure the person who wrote such rules was working off >the "historical/events/Robin" set of definitions... Maybe not. My wife informs me that the Laurelate in the Texas/Oklahoma 'kingdom' has pushed for the more anal retentive approach as a response to academic criticisms of the SCA. I just wish they'd define their terms clearly - whichever. >costumes. (I got an email a couple of weeks ago from someone who wanted me >to tell her where she could find a medieval picture of a "cotehardie," >preferably online, because she needed one for her documentation, and she >had never seen one herself, though OF COURSE she knew they existed and how >to make one!) You have my sympathies. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 19:48:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA50mNOL002674 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:48:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA50lfcC008506; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:47:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA50ld0V002325; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:47:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA50la0W002267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:47:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 16844 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2003 00:47:30 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com X-Recipient: h-costume@indra.com Received: from unknown (HELO ?65.24.127.125?) (65.24.127.125) by mail.donet.com for h-costume@indra.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2003 00:47:30 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:45:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sew on Tudor Jewels-painted black diamnonds From: Marsha J Hamilton To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3FA3F854.17010.15713955@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm behind on my mail, but wanted to comment on the diamond thread: > That's one cut [for diamonds], but they also used a pyramidal shape for the > cut. These were part of the novelty you mentioned since they could also be > used to cut glass or draw on glass. Pyramidal shaped diamonds are their natural state. I saw an exhibit called "Treasury of the World" at the Cleveland Art Museum (Ohio) of Mughal jewels. Room after room of fabulous objects were made from basically four materials: gold, diamonds, rubies, and emeralds. They had many diamonds from the Indian Golconda mines and pieces produced in Mughal India, contemporary to Elizabeth I and James I. There is a drop-dead gorgeous exhibit catalog of the same name. A natural occurring form of diamond is two pyramids back to back, so to get the shape of those early pyramid-shaped European diamond rings, they just cleaved the diamond in half. The pyramid is not faceted but natural. Those early pyramid diamonds are also not brilliant because they didn't have the technology to polish the pyramid sides, which could only be polishing with diamond dust, since nothing else is hard enough. >> It has far fewer facets so the light isn't reflected into the interior >> as well. They don't actually look solid black, they look a bit >> 'smokey'... Actually, diamonds weren't that popular in jewelry >> during the Elizabethan period...The colored stones were much more popular... As mentioned, lack of technology to cut and polish diamonds in the Elizabethan period left them bland looking, plus the preference for colored stones. As mentioned, Elizabethans used foiled backs to give color to diamonds. They also used silver to enhance light reflection. Silver foil, I believe, is what is being represented in the "black" diamonds of Tudor and Jacobean portraits. I have never run across a period or secondary reference to painting diamonds black, only using foil backs. There is an excellent reference on diamonds, an over-sized 287 page book with 420 color illustrations entitled: "Diamonds: myth, magic and reality" New revised edition. New York: Bonanza Books, 1984. It is an English translation of a 1980 edition published in the Netherlands written by a large group of gemologists and academics, with the assistance of the good-old De Beers diamond monopoly. Sections include: From Myth to Reality (on the lore of diamonds); The Rough Diamond and Its Origins (on the history of diamond discovery and mining); From Rough Stone to Polished Gem (on the history and technology of cuts, faceting, and polishing); and From Jewelry to Industry (on the various uses made of diamonds). There are huge color illustrations throughout as well as quotations from early sources, reproduction of period drawings, and photos of pieces from various periods. Although other jewelry books may include more photos of individual pieces of period jewelry, this is by far the largest resource I've run across solely on the history of diamonds. Marsha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 19:50:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA50ouOL002698 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:50:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA50oNcC008705; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA50oM0V003950; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA50oI0W003863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:50:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA50nfPX010064 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:49:41 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:49:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA8497E.9000605@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:51:10 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc Carlson wrote: >> From: Robin Netherton >> So when I cite a painting as an example in a paper, I footnote the >> painting; I don't footnote the museum postcard I used to view the >> painting. > > See, and I would footnote the postcard. This reminded me of an example why it might be good to footnote the postcard. Some 15 years ago, the Boston Museum of Fine Arts had a show which compared original art to really good forgeries of the same art. One of them was a young woman on a vine-covered swing. There were a couple of obvious differences, such as hand placement, between it and the original. They had postcards of the original art for sale. The picture for that one, labeled as the orginal, was the forgery. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Then came the news that margarine’s trans fat may be even worse than butter’s saturated fat, which threw millions of confused consumers back into the butter camp." Butter Camp? Where do I sign up? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 20:09:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA519QOL002812 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:09:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA518mcC010291; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:08:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA518kjr014273; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:08:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA518fjr014214 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:08:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06417 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:32:46 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:32:46 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Marc Carlson wrote: > >any in my browse, save for the SCA pages like Kass's. > > You know, I wouldn't actually pin Kass's site with that label :) Whooops. Sorry, Kass. "Reenactment-oriented pages." > OTOH, this doesn't mean that you are going to convince me that working > with working with line drawings and photographs of a garment is just > as good as working with the garment itself :) My goodness, I hope that smiley means you're teasing again. I never said any such thing. I've lost count of the number of messages in this thread where I've tried to point out that not all primary sources are equally "good," and also that some ways of *viewing* a primary source are worse than others and likely to get you into trouble. (BTW, seeing the St. Louis shirt through a glass case probably gave me less information than I would have gotten from reading notes of someone knowledgeable who had the good fortune to examine it hands-on, but I don't think anyone has been able to do that, so we settle for the view through the glass.) And, dear, please don't even suggest -- lest someone take you seriously -- that I'd put line drawings and photographs into the same category AT ALL. Line drawings are squarely secondary even in my book. (Unless the line drawing is also from the period -- e.g. if I'm studying 16th c. Spanish clothing construction and the line drawings are from Alcega's pattern book.) > Maybe not. My wife informs me that the Laurelate in the Texas/Oklahoma > 'kingdom' has pushed for the more anal retentive approach as a response to > academic criticisms of the SCA. Ironic, in that cases like Kass and others have described, where people are defining "primary source" so restrictively as to be useless, would just get raised eyebrows -- definitely not added respect -- from the academics I know. What's important is that people know to get as close to the period information as possible, to gather as much information from as many diverse types of sources as possible, *and* to correctly interpret and correlate the information they do get. Bandying about labels with ever-tightening definitions, or blanket refusal to consider whole categories of quality sources because they're suddenly classed as "secondary," won't earn anyone any points for academic legitimacy. > >costumes. (I got an email a couple of weeks ago from someone who wanted me > >to tell her where she could find a medieval picture of a "cotehardie," > >preferably online, because she needed one for her documentation, and she > >had never seen one herself, though OF COURSE she knew they existed and how > >to make one!) > > You have my sympathies. And after I got her to define what she meant by "cotehardie," helped her determine what type of source she needed, and walked her through the basics of how to find period art, what to look for, and how to choose an appropriate image from the hundreds of readily accessible period pictures from that period -- and much more besides -- I not only got no response (not even a "thank you"), but I found she popped up on an e-mail list with the same question, plus one more line: "I don't have time to go to the library." And when she gets a low score for documentation, I'm sure she'll think it's terribly unjust because she went through so much WORK ... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 20:30:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA51UMOL002975 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:30:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA51TecC011637; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:29:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA51Tdjr025698; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:29:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA51Tbjs025634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:29:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 12405 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2003 01:29:31 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com X-Recipient: h-costume@indra.com Received: from unknown (HELO ?65.24.127.125?) (65.24.127.125) by mail.donet.com for h-costume@indra.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2003 01:29:31 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:27:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Luther From: Marsha J Hamilton To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <130.2731e0d9.2cd56da0@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 11/1/03 3:12 PM, AlbertCat@aol.com at AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/31/03 7:15:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, > Kitsune242@aol.com writes: > Has anyone seen this movie? > Yes, unfortunately. > > Some nice costumes though. Don't know too much about Luther, but the woodcuts I've seen of him don't look anything like Joseph Fiennes! Loved the wife's gowns after she is no longer a runaway nun. The banded skirts and sleeves were very Cranach, weren't they? Marsha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 20:34:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA51YJOL003009 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:34:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA51XdcC011932; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:33:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA51Xcjr027596; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:33:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA51Xajr027571 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:33:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031105013335.93770.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:33:35 EST Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:33:35 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FA77BC9.12041.232AB8F5@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > That does not relate to whether a Renaissance artist could paint a > > dress accurately. Textiles aren't the be-all and end-all of > > fortune-making industries these days. Not so in the Renaissance. > > Textiles and spices. > > Actually, it can mean just that in the Renaissance. There are well > known paintings where they have gotten the details very wrong about > textiles (especially when it comes to things like looms.) Even in > tapestries (where you would think that they would have a very good > idea of how to weave) the looms are often missing critical parts, yet > are very detailed otherwise (so it's not just that they were > simplifying.) Again, a loom is not a dress. I think we should just agree to disagree, shall we? We seem to have very differing opinions and levels of understanding about the art of portraiture. In a portrait you will not see a loom. A depiction of a person on a tapestry is not a portrait. Portraits have been lumped in with narrative, allegorical and religious art, which simply confuses the matter. Rather than confusing things any further, I shall leave it there. I might even sew someting today. :) ===== **************************************** Bella *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net *Courtesan Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ ***************************************** http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 20:48:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA51mSOL003108 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:48:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA51llcC012908; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA51ljjr004673; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:47:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA51lgjr004652 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:47:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.162.100] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5F32950214; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:44:19 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000601c3a330$a6bcbad0$2e48ccd1@Kass> References: <000601c3a330$a6bcbad0$2e48ccd1@Kass> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:47:22 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] BTW, for re-enactors..... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I ran into someone at the Handweavers Show here in Los Angeles. She has a beautiful antique spinning wheel for sale - Mid 1800's, in perfect working condition - I know, I tried it. The mother of all has been replaced, along with the maidens, to hold an Ashford bobbin and flyer. Single treadle, of course, and double drive. I think she was looking for $250-$300 for it. If you're interested, call Karen Frazer 818-365-1417 Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 21:16:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA52GjOL003736 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:16:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA52FicC014620; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:15:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA52FgCx018858; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:15:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail1.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA52FdD0018827 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:15:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) hA52Fb0L030622 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:15:38 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.46.254]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:15:35 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List \(E-mail\)" Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:27:12 -0500 Message-ID: <036601c3a342$afac2790$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yep, that WAS me! I think you are right about the colors in Spanish 16th c. - I think the biggest downfall for my first project was it was an orange red color - great for blondes, makes me look jaundiced :P Re: Byzantine - flipping through costumes.org today I was thinking the same thing, if only because, in addition to headgear, Byzantine = shiny! I may eventually get around to Italian Renn and Mongolian as well - I have to say it's hard for me to meet a costume I don' t like! Definitely going to plan for the future. Thank you all! Allison T. Message: 5 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:24:54 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <20031104092055.F69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ha! Allison! I didn't realize it was you until I reread my message. Let's see, now that I have a picture in my mind: Spanish 16th c would work with your coloring, definitely. But I think your body type would look best in drapier styles that hang from the shoulders, perhaps earlier period Greek or Roman...or Byzantine! Yes, I think Byzantine would be perfect for you. Plus, cool concealing headwear. Drea > > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, A.Thurman wrote: > > > Been reading this thread with interest. I think y'all may have hit the nail > > on the head regarding regional/national body types informing regional > > styles. > > > > Try as I might, I love Tudor and Elizabethan but don't think it looks right > > on me, mostly because I am far too dark for the "ideal" seen in portraits. I > > wear sunscreen every day, but have an olive complexion and very angular > > features, possibly from some Native American in my background (the rest of > > my heritage is mostly English/Scottish). > > > > Not like I'm going to drop 16 century styles (hey, I'm sure there were > > swarthy girls somewhere wearing stays and farthingales!), but I'm curious: > > what would y'all suggest for someone who is all shoulders/bust with no hips > > or waist and an olive complexion and angular face (my hair is anachronistic > > for all historic time periods - I rely on hats or wigs). > > > > Allison T. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 21:47:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA52l8OL003915 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:47:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA52kTcC016639; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:46:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA52kQCx004543; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:46:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA52kMD0004500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:46:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA52qxU9011433 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:53:00 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:46:59 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20031104.100310.500.0.Cley@juno.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Garbing Arlys X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nah, I was thinking of Judith with the head of Holofernes. Lovely red with gold horizontal stripes on the skirt, far from your face. Let's see, who can we get to play Holofernes? How about W***? Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Cynthia J Ley > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 10:01 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Cc: Cley@juno.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair > > > EIYEEEEE!!!!! > > Ok...just no bumblebees. I look ghastly in yellow. Then again, teal.... > :) I think I need to dig out the Medieval Women calendars I saved (and > *shame* on Workman Publishing for discontinuing them!!!). > > Some people never use their heads, and would never notice if it were > missing. ;) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 22:47:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA53ljOL004331 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:47:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA53l3cC021099; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:47:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA53kxPW013515; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:46:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f114.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.114]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA53ktPW013449 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:46:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:46:50 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.30 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:46:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.30] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:46:49 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2003 03:46:50.0160 (UTC) FILETIME=[71AFDB00:01C3A34F] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Robin Netherton >My goodness, I hope that smiley means you're teasing again. I never said >any such thing. I've lost count of the number of messages in this thread >where I've tried to point out that not all primary sources are equally >"good," and also that some ways of *viewing* a primary source are worse >than others and likely to get you into trouble. I know. Interesting aside. You know those line drawings in archaeology texts? Those generally are done to highlight the "important" things about an artifact, that might get otherwise lost in the clutter of detail. Therefore they are VERY subjective, although they are frequently assumed to be "primary sources" to folks looking through the books. >(BTW, seeing the St. Louis shirt through a glass case probably gave me >less information than I would have gotten from reading notes of someone >knowledgeable who had the good fortune to examine it hands-on, but I don't >think anyone has been able to do that, so we settle for the view through >the glass.) This being the major lesson -- primary, secondary aren't always as important as what's available. >And, dear, please don't even suggest -- lest someone take you seriously -- >that I'd put line drawings and photographs into the same category AT ALL. >Line drawings are squarely secondary even in my book... I put them in the same category :) >>Maybe not. My wife informs me that the Laurelate in the Texas/Oklahoma >>'kingdom' has pushed for the more anal retentive approach as a response to >>academic criticisms of the SCA. >Ironic, in that cases like Kass and others have described, where people >are defining "primary source" so restrictively as to be useless, would >just get raised eyebrows -- definitely not added respect -- from the >academics I know. What's important is that people know to get as close to >the period information as possible, to gather as much information from as >many diverse types of sources as possible, *and* to correctly interpret >and correlate the information they do get. Bandying about labels with >ever-tightening definitions, or blanket refusal to consider whole >categories of quality sources because they're suddenly classed as >"secondary," won't earn anyone any points for academic legitimacy. Don't look at me. I'd prefer it if they just skipped the terms altogether. OTOH, in said kingdom, they apparently also don't have competitions -requiring- "primary sources" or "secondary sources". Now, apparently they just want to know what the sources used were >the same question, plus one more line: "I don't have time to go to the >library." *cough* >And when she gets a low score for documentation, I'm sure she'll think >it's terribly unjust because she went through so much WORK ... Yeah, well. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 23:00:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA540pOL004429 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:00:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA540AcC021954; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:00:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5409Ak020380; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:00:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5405Ak020320 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from oldwaylane.net (dialup-171.75.45.253.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net [171.75.45.253]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09894 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:45:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FA880D1.8010305@oldwaylane.net> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:47:13 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume References: <20031104131529.S69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> In-Reply-To: <20031104131529.S69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea Leed wrote: > Sure, that would be cool. I have everything Wimme ever recorded, plus the > swedish folk music boxed set on saami music, but that's about it. ah, Wimme was the main one I'm familiar with. have you heard of Mari Boine? There's some interesting joiks on "the Sweet Sunny North vol 1" - Ailu Gaup gives me chills! Have you been to the NorthSide website? They carry quite a bit of interesting stuff (including Wimme and Mari Boine) Loituma sounds fascinating. They are a " a young quartet who combine the Finnish vocal tradition with the exquisite sounds of the kantele (Finnish harp)". the website is http://noside.com . I had also been thinking about a CD I have called Wizard Women of the North - but they aren't particuarly joiking. Costume content: If people aren't tired of "where do I fit in history" anyone got suggestions for me? Ijust make what fascinates me, but I've got no clue what I'm best body-typed for. has me in mundanes. let's see: I'm about 5'2"-ish, um, "well-padded", dark hair going rather grey, hazel eyes, and square faced. My background is French, English, we think Scottish and either Austrian, Hungarian or Polish (there's a bit of debate on my father's side). -Judy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 23:14:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA54EFOL004506 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:14:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA54DTcC022685; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:13:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA54DPAk027483; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA54DNAk027465 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:13:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-007neomahp213.dialsprint.net ([63.178.246.125] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AHF2o-0006Zs-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:13:22 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20031104215837.012e0d28@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:04:53 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200311050109.hA5193js014491@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Book find X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just arrived today, from our favorite old book dealer: The English Icon: Elizabethan & Jacobean Portraiture by Roy Strong It seems to be very good for this era, with portraits indexed by sitter and painter. Lots of scholarly commentary. Most pics in B & W :(, but some in color. The interesting thing is that the color ones are separate plates that are attached to the page by the top edge only. I'm sure it was done as a cost thing - printing the picture only and inserting it into the book has to cost less than printing a whole page in color and then having to make sure it's bound in separately. It's pub date is 1969 and it was done in Britain. More info if anyone wants it. P & S "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 23:26:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA54QaOL004611 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:26:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA54PtcC023512; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:25:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA54PsAk003879; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:25:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA54PqAk003863 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:25:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-44-170.jps.net ([209.165.44.170] helo=[209.165.51.213]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AHFEt-0001Nn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:25:51 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FA78CB1.18926.236CC2D8@localhost> References: <3FA78CB1.18926.236CC2D8@localhost> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:23:33 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:25 AM -0800 11/4/03, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > I wish such rules could more sensibly say that sources closer to the > > original items get you more points, and let it go at that. > >So then, how do you spread the points in terms of the sources. It >will still come down to making sure everyone is on the same page as >far as the definitions are concerned and that the judges have enough >saavy to be able to discern the closeness. Very true, and I don't have an easy answer. Mostly I tend to focus on the difficulties it creates for potential competitors, because in our neck of the woods it seems to be very difficult to convince people to enter competitions at _all_. It's pitiful to see a competition for a region that covers (say) half of California, with a total of three entries. I think it's a regional culture thing . And one of the things people who don't enter tend to complain about a lot is how hard it is to do documentation, and especially how they don't understand what the judges are looking for. Getting sidetracked into confusing discussions about what is primary and secondary generates a lot of online agony on some of the lists I'm on. (As Cynthia can testify -- that being one of the reasons she created her page in the first place. :) At 11:28 AM -0600 11/4/03, Marc Carlson wrote: > >Considering the inconsistency of usage, I doubt that the terms were >intended to undergo this degree of scrutiny. My point exactly. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 23:44:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA54iZOL004770 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:44:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA54hrcC024786; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:43:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA54hqAk012316; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:43:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA54hnAl012295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:43:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA54oMUD014800 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:50:27 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Book find Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:44:23 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20031104215837.012e0d28@radiks.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, yes. My favorite book bought back before I knew the SCA existed. I still want the gowns in all the color portraits and many of the b&w's as well, particularly the one that is ermine from the knees down. I got mine from a specialty book service something like Hamilton. They had Davenport as a single volume for $18.00. I bought 10 of them to give away! Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Pierre & Sandy Pettinger > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 8:05 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Book find > > > Just arrived today, from our favorite old book dealer: > > The English Icon: Elizabethan & Jacobean Portraiture by Roy Strong > > It seems to be very good for this era, with portraits indexed by > sitter and > painter. Lots of scholarly commentary. Most pics in B & W :(, > but some in > color. The interesting thing is that the color ones are separate plates > that are attached to the page by the top edge only. I'm sure it was done > as a cost thing - printing the picture only and inserting it into > the book > has to cost less than printing a whole page in color and then having to > make sure it's bound in separately. It's pub date is 1969 and it > was done > in Britain. More info if anyone wants it. > > P & S > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 4 23:45:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA54jdOL004787 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:45:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA54j1cC024903; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA54j0Ak012829; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA54iwAk012750 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:44:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a27.in-tch.com [66.62.107.7]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hA54Ntc22822 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:23:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FA880DB.7B525F02@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:47:23 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] best compliment... was Facial and body types & costume References: <5.2.1.1.2.20031104083149.00b6ae00@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, definitely! That's a hoot! --sue Kirrily Robert wrote: > > Sarah wrote: > > As for looking like I've stepped out of a painting: > > http://www.modehistorique.com/images/sarah4.jpg > > > > (Of course, this is a gag picture. Jen Thompson overlaid my face into > > the original portrait using her mad Photoshop skillz. But it still > > shows you that I was born about 450 years too late...) > > Jen did my face with a portrait by Anthonis Mor. You can see it at > http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/ > > Do you think Flemish suits me? I do :) > > K. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 00:06:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA556jOL004908 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:06:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5568cC026233; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5566fU023779; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:06:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5564fU023767 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hA5564ON019956 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:06:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.58] (tnt-1-122.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.58]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5561h7019912 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:06:02 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031104123240.I69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: <20031104123240.I69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:14:40 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Facial and body types & costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:46 PM -0500 11/4/03, Drea Leed wrote: > > >> Hi Drea, >> By any chance do you have any suggestions (books or >> links) for Saami clothing? > >Only "traditional" Saami clothing, which was for the most part a 19th & >20th century formalization of current folkwear. Here's a pic: > http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/edenpic4.htm > >and a page about the Saami in general: >http://www.itv.se/boreale/samieng1.htm > There's a certain amount of historic information in: Gjessing, Gjertrud & Guto. 1940. Lappedrakten. H. Aschuhoug & Co, Oslo. (Forgive me for not going upstairs to get more details ... I'd have to disturb the cat.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 01:19:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA56JgOL005379 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:19:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA56J2cC029745; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA56IurD027683; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:18:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from goldweb.com.au (GOL139579-1.gw.connect.com.au [203.63.118.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA56IqrD027652 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:18:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goldweb.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE5B1C0E4 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:18:48 +1100 (EST) Received: from c9o0e1 (statler-3.goldweb.com.au [210.8.79.193]) by goldweb.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 5EAE71C2E4 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:18:39 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <002401c3a365$d004b660$c14f08d2@c9o0e1> From: "grey" To: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:26:54 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] going to England X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hA56JgOL005379 Status: RO Hi, I am lucky enough to be going to England to work for the next 10 months, living in Kew, in south western London. This means time to do some of the costumey things that a short trip just won't allow. Recommendations please :-) Also, I recall that there is a lady on this list who has been involved with training at the Royal armoury in Leeds. Please will she be kind enough to contact me, my husband and I fence and are interested in what is on offer there. TIA Annette Wilson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 01:45:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA56jfOL005445 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:45:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA56j4cC000997; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA56j2rD009062; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA56iwrE009028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:44:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2747 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2003 06:44:57 -0000 Received: from dap-208-166-66-50.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO castlebooks) ([208.166.66.50]) (envelope-sender )SMTP for ; 5 Nov 2003 06:44:57 -0000 Message-ID: <011101c3a368$541f9cb0$3242a6d0@castlebooks> From: "Janet Davis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031104.074900.1336.0.Cley@juno.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:44:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Tres Riches Heures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > With all this discussion of paintings, another two bits' worth: > > be very careful of paintings shown in books. Sometimes these are not > reproduced as the originals. The obvious problem is that of the colors, > but you can also find censured versions of some artworks. One such case > is a winter scene from the Duc de Berry's _Tres Riches Heures_: a lady > and two men are warming themselves inside a hut, seated on a bench. The > men are sitting with their legs sprawled and are obviously not wearing > undergarments. Actually, a closer look shows that there are 2 women and 1 man. While the genitals shown on the woman in the rear are protryed in a somewhat odd manner, they are a slit as opposed to the genitals of the man next to her. The other clue is that she is dressed the same way as the woman in the foreground. The detail view on the Web Gallery of Art is useful - http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/l/limbourg/index.html - but some of the books portray it better. For instance, the contrast on my monitor makes the rear lady's hat invisable as it blends in with the bedspread, but it shows clearly in the book reproductions. Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 02:57:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA57vqOL026390 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 02:57:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA57tvcC003751; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:55:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA57ttjw011152; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:55:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA57tpjw011123 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-172.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.172]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA57tM0T027364 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:55:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031104235358.056a19d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:54:18 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] going to England In-Reply-To: <002401c3a365$d004b660$c14f08d2@c9o0e1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I am lucky enough to be going to England to work for the next 10 months, >living in Kew, in south western London. This means time to do some of the >costumey things that a short trip just won't allow. Recommendations please :-) Stash me in your suitcase? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 02:57:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA57vsOL026405 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 02:57:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA57ukcC003787; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:56:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA57ujjw011482; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:56:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA57tqjw011127 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-172.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.172]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA57tM0V027364 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:55:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031104235444.053d0730@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:55:36 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tres Riches Heures In-Reply-To: <011101c3a368$541f9cb0$3242a6d0@castlebooks> References: <20031104.074900.1336.0.Cley@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > With all this discussion of paintings, another two bits' worth: > > > > be very careful of paintings shown in books. Sometimes these are not > > reproduced as the originals. The obvious problem is that of the colors, > > but you can also find censured versions of some artworks. One such case > > is a winter scene from the Duc de Berry's _Tres Riches Heures_: a lady > > and two men are warming themselves inside a hut, seated on a bench. The > > men are sitting with their legs sprawled and are obviously not wearing > > undergarments. > >Actually, a closer look shows that there are 2 women and 1 man. While the >genitals shown on the woman in the rear are protryed in a somewhat odd >manner, they are a slit as opposed to the genitals of the man next to her. >The other clue is that she is dressed the same way as the woman in the >foreground. The detail view on the Web Gallery of Art is useful - >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/l/limbourg/index.html - but some of the books >portray it better. For instance, the contrast on my monitor makes the rear >lady's hat invisable as it blends in with the bedspread, but it shows >clearly in the book reproductions. My 1952 repro of this is censored, and I never realized it had been till I saw an uncensored version. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 03:24:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA58O1OL002136 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:24:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA58NHcC005014; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:23:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA58NGjw023702; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:23:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA58NDjw023679 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.157]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id hA58prV31998 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:51:53 +1100 Message-ID: <040701c3a376$6160ad20$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002401c3a365$d004b660$c14f08d2@c9o0e1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] going to England Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:25:29 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Annette, You can book to see special items of costume you're interested in at the V&A. The list is currently about 8 weeks long. If you're interested in the early-mid17th century, I have a favour to ask you about the construction of extant hats... Glenda. > Hi, > I am lucky enough to be going to England to work for the next 10 months, living in Kew, in south western London. This means time to do some of the costumey things that a short trip just won't allow. Recommendations please :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 05:01:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5A15OL006167 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:01:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5A00cC008237; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA59xwAq029527; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 02:59:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta02bw.bigpond.com (mta02bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA59xtAq029445 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 02:59:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from clarke ([144.135.24.72]) by mta02bw.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HNV0089KIEQ05@mta02bw.email.bigpond.com> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:59:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from cwpp-p-203-54-206-197.prem.tmns.net.au ([203.54.206.197]) by bwmam02.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 11/4067367); Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:59:14 +0000 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:59:03 +1100 From: Purple Elephant Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) To: Historical Costume Message-id: <00c701c3a383$729d4aa0$c5ce36cb@clarke> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <3FA779D1.29579.232306BE@localhost> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > But I'm not American, or Australian. Or from any other sort of melting > > pot. I'm English, and pretty much English all the way back (alright, > > so with a teensy bit of Irish) and I look very English. > > Don't assume that because you are English that you are not from a > "melting pot." When you consider all the influences to England over > the centuries you come to realize that it is not as homogenous as you > might think. For example, you could have both Pict (short, dark) and > Scandinavian (tall, blond) blood. > > And there was a lot more migration of people from other places who > ended up in England (such as the influx of Jews in various periods > and their trying to inculturate so as to be "safer" which sometimes > included hiding their religious origins and intermarrying, thus > bringing in mediterranean and Eastern European blood) and all the > people in trade or conquest who emigrated to England in the past > centuries (the Germanic tribes for instance.) And how about slave > influxes. (You see a surprising number of what we in the US call > "Afro-Americans" in London and on your telly.) But surely this is true of pretty much anywhere in Europe (except for the larger influx of people to England from the Empire over the last 100 yrs or so). There was all kinds of mixing up and people moving around in the Dark Ages. Anything pre-Conquest had a lot of time to get mixed up together before the next major influxes of people from other significantly different areas. Otherwise the whole idea of people looking Russian or German or Flemish makes no sense either, because there were just as many Romans, Jews, Goths etc there in the past. I know my family history back about five generations and it's fairly uninteresting ethnically speaking. Back when I stop knowing specifics things were a lot more homogenous (and people were less inclined to move about and marry outside their experience). So I'm not really assuming. > > And in the future, England will be even more of a melting pot than it > has been. The policies on immigration and influx from the former > colonies has lead to large populations of people of Indian, Eastern > and Middle Eastern descent. > No argument there, but as I said, it's not going to alter my family history. > So, even if *you* look English, you might still have a lot more > "melting" than you might know about. > > Maybe that's > > why hennins were only popular for such a brief period in England, as > > opposed to in France and Flanders. Interestingly enough I was wearing > > my English hood (a la Jane Seymour) once and someone told me I had the > > right sort of face to carry it off. I also do well in those columnar > > braids that were so popular in the 14th century. > > My descent is 3/4 Scottish and 1/4 Swedish. Yet, I "look" English > enough that when I was in London for a month, I was frequently > thought by the people (locals, not tourists) there to be English > (until I opened my mouth, of course.) I've seen photographs of me in > Tudor which make me look like I'm straight out of a Holbein. Yet, I > have an amazingly high forehead and high cheekbones which also makes > me look like I could be a Burgundian lady (although there's no one in > the family tree who came from the continent except for a single > "Pennsylvania Dutch", ie German, lady who married into the family and > whose kids kept marrying Scottish people after that.) > > My point is that I don't believe that the genetics of France and the > adjoining areas was sufficiently different from that of England for > someone of English descent to look worse in a Burgundian hennin than > for a Burgundian. > If the Scottish is Lowland Scottish you might be more English than you think *grin* Or it could just be that standard genetic variation within any one regional group is sufficent to produce people who look fabulous in a style and people who look terrible in it. In which case we're right back to 'I would have looked terrible in it in period'. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 05:40:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5Ae1OL012433 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5AdJcC009950; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5AdFAq010502; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:39:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (mta2-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5AdCAq010482 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:39:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from Imedia5043 ([80.1.0.255]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20031105103911.KUVD28456.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:39:11 +0000 Message-ID: <021a01c3a389$0a96ae00$75090150@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002401c3a365$d004b660$c14f08d2@c9o0e1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] going to England Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:39:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO that'll be me I train in Leeds but the guild will be moving into there london space soon as well so should be setting up then will keep you posted there are also a couple of other groups based in west london so will hunt out their details and let you have them. That was the area I lived in (had a costume shop in Chiswick for a while) and still stay when I come down so any local tips etc just ask and happy to meet up. it is the best area for historic houses as it was the country retreat area and I was on the council local attractions committee for a while so have a list of them all although most close over winter I'm afraid Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 ----- Original Message ----- From: "grey" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 6:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] going to England Hi, I am lucky enough to be going to England to work for the next 10 months, living in Kew, in south western London. This means time to do some of the costumey things that a short trip just won't allow. Recommendations please :-) Also, I recall that there is a lady on this list who has been involved with training at the Royal armoury in Leeds. Please will she be kind enough to contact me, my husband and I fence and are interested in what is on offer there. TIA Annette Wilson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 07:52:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5CqDOL013858 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:52:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5CpYcC016128; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:51:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5CpWE6005992; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:51:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5CpTE6005973 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:51:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.62]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:50:37 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:51:29 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c3a39b$88935080$3e6453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Marc Carlson wrote: > >any in my browse, save for the SCA pages like Kass's. > > You know, I wouldn't actually pin Kass's site with that label :) Whooops. Sorry, Kass. "Reenactment-oriented pages." >>>> That's okay, Robin. That page exists on the Beginners' section of my site and I *did* write that when I was in the SCA. So it's not entirely an unfair classification. =) But thanks for pointing out the distinction, Marc. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 08:06:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5D6nOL013907 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:06:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5D64cC016670; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5D63Cl012380; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5D5xCl012285 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:05:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a26.in-tch.com [66.62.107.6]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hA5Ciuc16668 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:44:56 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FA8F649.A09D3832@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:08:25 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] going to England References: <002401c3a365$d004b660$c14f08d2@c9o0e1> <040701c3a376$6160ad20$eaf4fea9@glendaii> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Really? Any idea of who you contact to do that? --sue, planning ahead.... Glenda Robinson wrote: > > Annette, > > You can book to see special items of costume you're interested in at the > V&A. The list is currently about 8 weeks long. > If you're interested in the early-mid17th century, I have a favour to ask > you about the construction of extant hats... > > Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 08:09:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5D9rOL013922 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:09:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5D9GcC016842; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:09:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5D9ECl013661; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:09:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5D9CCl013642 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:09:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.62]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:08:21 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of Documentation) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:09:12 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c3a39e$02892b10$3e6453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: <> Boy, isn't that a familiar story! I don't usually get it from people entering competitions, but from students working on a project that needs to be done tomorrow. The strange thing is that I would accept this from school kids. They don't know any better. (I usually reply to them with the section in the library where they should begin their search.) But when the "student" in question tells me the name of her University, I just about boil over. At my University, if you weren't adept at using the library from day one, you probably didn't make it past mid-semester reports in the first semester! The one I got the other day from a parent really amused me though. Apparently there's an International Day at her children's school and they are representing Japan. So she says: "Can you tell me where I can find shirts to purchase for the kids to wear for that day. Also, any other helpful information about Japan that we can use for that day." Shirts? And "helpful information"? I swear to you; that's as specific as she got. I really have no idea what she wanted. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 08:16:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5DGnOL013977 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:16:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5DGDcC017156; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:16:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5DGDCl016720; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:16:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mattdrury.net ([63.120.103.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5DGBCl016707 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:16:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from Spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MO0002C3; 5 Nov 03 08:18:30 -0500 Received: from spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32); 5 Nov 03 08:18:21 -0500 Received: from mjd (63.120.103.199) by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MG0002C2; 5 Nov 03 08:17:14 -0500 Message-ID: <051701c3a39e$cc80a8d0$c767783f@mjd> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002401c3a365$d004b660$c14f08d2@c9o0e1><040701c3a376$6160ad20$eaf4fea9@glendaii> <3FA8F649.A09D3832@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] going to England Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:14:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Really? Any idea of who you contact to do that? Milady arranged for some special access to embroidery work and books-of-days. If you like, I can get the contact info she has on file for that; it'll at least get you in the ballpark. We stayed at the Montana Hotel in March, caddy-corner from the Gloucester Rd Tube station. A few minutes' walk and we were in V&A bliss. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 08:26:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5DQeOL014044 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:26:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5DQAcC017596; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:26:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5DQ9Cl021157; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:26:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5DQ5Cm021031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:26:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA5DPRPX013828 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:25:27 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:25:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FA8FAA1.80400@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:26:57 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] email questions Re: Primary? Secondary? References: <000801c3a39e$02892b10$3e6453d8@Kass> In-Reply-To: <000801c3a39e$02892b10$3e6453d8@Kass> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kass McGann wrote: > Robin wrote: > e-mail list with the same question, plus one more line: "I don't have > time to go to the library." Yeah, I get that one moderately often, both for my own pages and answering general questions for the sca.org visitors. I wonder if they realize that the translation is "I'm too lazy?" > but from students working on a project that needs > to be done tomorrow. "Please send me a video about medieval hats" is one of the best ones I've gotten. But the ones from people with really interesting questions make it all worthwhile. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 08:43:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5Dh3OL014137 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:43:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5DgEcC018489; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:42:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5DgDCl029168; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:42:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Dg9Cl029139 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:42:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.62]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:41:17 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] email questions Re: Primary? Secondary? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:42:09 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c3a3a2$9ca64e40$3e6453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <3FA8FAA1.80400@thibault.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia wrote: <<"Please send me a video about medieval hats" is one of the best ones I've gotten. But the ones from people with really interesting questions make it all worthwhile.>> Yes indeed! Or the sheer enthusiasm of someone who's discovered a new love. There's nothing quite as thrilling as getting an email from someone who's practically drooling on herself because she found on your site what she's been search for in libraries and on other sites for years. That's kinda the reason I don't take anything down on my site even though I may not be interested in it anymore and don't update it. People still find what they're looking for there. =) Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 08:51:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5DpcOL014177 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:51:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Dp1cC018951; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Dp0Cl003149; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from az-awindo1-spam.awin.com (mail.awin.com [65.218.228.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5DovCm003092 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:50:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from awmail.awin.com (unverified [10.200.20.27]) by az-awindo1-spam.awin.com for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:54:17 -0700 Received: from INET-MTA by awmail.awin.com with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:50:50 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.3 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:50:40 -0700 From: "Tori Ruhl" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hA5DovCm003092 Subject: [h-cost] Black Diamonds X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a quick note: When I said "painted diamonds black", I meant by artists in portraiture, not the diamond itself. T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 09:03:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5E3YOL014271 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:03:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5E2ucC019578; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:02:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5E2sKS008668; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:02:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5E2qKS008630 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:02:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.comESMTP <20031105140250.CJUN25471.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@lynne-laptop.ntlworld.com> for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:02:50 +0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20031105140225.024d4d68@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:02:46 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] going to England In-Reply-To: <3FA8F649.A09D3832@in-tch.com> References: <002401c3a365$d004b660$c14f08d2@c9o0e1> <040701c3a376$6160ad20$eaf4fea9@glendaii> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4BCB17D0; boundary="=======63503064=======" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======63503064======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4BCB17D0; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 13:08 05/11/2003 Sue Clemenger said > > You can book to see special items of costume you're interested in at the > > V&A. The list is currently about 8 weeks long. > > If you're interested in the early-mid17th century, I have a favour to ask > > you about the construction of extant hats... There's an email link on the website. They're very good at responding. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Award winning Historical Romance author. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE. VANESSA from Awe-Struck --=======63503064======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4BCB17D0 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 03/11/2003 --=======63503064======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======63503064=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 09:10:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5EAmOL014288 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:10:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5EA6cC020046; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:10:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5EA4KS011863; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:10:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5EA1KS011767 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from oldwaylane.net (dialup-67.72.166.201.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net [67.72.166.201]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA28064 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:09:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FA91354.9090800@oldwaylane.net> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:12:20 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Saami clothes (was: RE: Facial and body types & costume) References: <20031104123240.I69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather Rose Jones wrote: > There's a certain amount of historic information in: > > Gjessing, Gjertrud & Guto. 1940. Lappedrakten. H. Aschuhoug & Co, Oslo. > > (Forgive me for not going upstairs to get more details ... I'd have to > disturb the cat.) Oh I quite understand about the cat. ;-) Thanks for the book suggestion, I'll see if ILL can find it. I've got a few books and Fred Struthers has found me a couple more, and that June Swann footwear book has some great info on the shoes, but one of my biggest issues is what on earth gets worn beneath that lovely blue tunic/dress? Nothing ever describes all the layers. maybe there is no underclothing, but that would seem odd. I know modern Saami just wear a shirt, sometimes hiding it with a scarf at the neck, but 19th century Saami, or earlier? -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 09:43:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5EhjOL014396 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:43:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5EgxcC022041; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:43:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5EgwKS000243; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:42:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA5EgtKS000198 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:42:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 50955 invoked by uid 1005); 5 Nov 2003 14:42:49 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.074051 secs); 05 Nov 2003 14:42:49 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.074051 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2003 14:42:49 -0000 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:42:51 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] going to England In-Reply-To: <002401c3a365$d004b660$c14f08d2@c9o0e1> Message-ID: <20031105094050.L89895-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kew?? Three words, baby: Public Records Office! :) They are located in Kew, and have manuscripts, inventories, wardrobe accounts, wills, etc. dating back to the 10th century. Lots of the info in Arnold's Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd came from the PRO. In fact, I plan to plant myself there for two weeks in February, transcribing as fast as my little fingers will allow. Victoria and Albert Museum is, I think, another "must see". Their textile study rooms are phenomenal. Have fun! Drea On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, grey wrote: > Hi, > I am lucky enough to be going to England to work for the next 10 months, living in Kew, in south western London. This means time to do some of the costumey things that a short trip just won't allow. Recommendations please :-) > Also, I recall that there is a lady on this list who has been involved with training at the Royal armoury in Leeds. > Please will she be kind enough to contact me, my husband and I fence and are interested in what is on offer there. > > TIA > > Annette Wilson > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 09:44:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5EiAOL014399 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:44:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5EhJcC022075; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:43:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5EhIKS000438; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:43:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA5EgtKS000200 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:42:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 50955 invoked by uid 1005); 5 Nov 2003 14:42:49 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.074051 secs); 05 Nov 2003 14:42:49 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.074051 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2003 14:42:49 -0000 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:42:51 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] going to England In-Reply-To: <002401c3a365$d004b660$c14f08d2@c9o0e1> Message-ID: <20031105094050.L89895-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kew?? Three words, baby: Public Records Office! :) They are located in Kew, and have manuscripts, inventories, wardrobe accounts, wills, etc. dating back to the 10th century. Lots of the info in Arnold's Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd came from the PRO. In fact, I plan to plant myself there for two weeks in February, transcribing as fast as my little fingers will allow. Victoria and Albert Museum is, I think, another "must see". Their textile study rooms are phenomenal. Have fun! Drea On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, grey wrote: > Hi, > I am lucky enough to be going to England to work for the next 10 months, living in Kew, in south western London. This means time to do some of the costumey things that a short trip just won't allow. Recommendations please :-) > Also, I recall that there is a lady on this list who has been involved with training at the Royal armoury in Leeds. > Please will she be kind enough to contact me, my husband and I fence and are interested in what is on offer there. > > TIA > > Annette Wilson > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 11:17:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5GHQOL014829 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:17:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5GGOcC029502; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:16:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5GGKLu005627; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:16:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5GGHLu005590 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:16:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be5d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.93]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E490D2629CB for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:16:15 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001101c3a3b8$8a451900$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:19:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] Reticella lace X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello. I was at a lace fair some time ago. There i looked in a new book where Reticella lace is adapted to bobbin lace. I thoaght this might be something for all the renaissance reenactors on this list. Reticella lace originally was a needle lace. But someone has tryed to adapt the old patterns to bobbin lace. They looked really good. So those of you who make bobbin lace, go and look for this book. Unfortunately i forgot to write down the details of the book, but i am sure than any lace suppliers has it. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 11:38:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5GcjOL015081 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:38:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5GblcC001711; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:37:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5GbiLu023713; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:37:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5GbRLu023472 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:37:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481F036A6D for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:37:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AHQes-0003EP-00 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:37:26 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reticella lace In-Reply-To: <001101c3a3b8$8a451900$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001101c3a3b8$8a451900$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:37:26 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: > I was at a lace fair some time ago. There i looked in a new book where > Reticella lace is adapted to bobbin lace. > I thoaght this might be something for all the renaissance reenactors on this > list. > Reticella lace originally was a needle lace. But someone has tryed to adapt > the old patterns to bobbin lace. > They looked really good. > So those of you who make bobbin lace, go and look for this book. > Unfortunately i forgot to write down the details of the book, but i am sure > than any lace suppliers has it. Luckily I bought it just a week ago :) Here are the details: Author: Brigitte Bellon Title: Geklo:ppelte Reticella/Dentelle Reticella aux Fuseaux (the o: indicates an umlaut) Pub: Gammelby 1998 The book I have is 88 pages, hardcover, with excellent pictures and prickings for 25 different patterns, most of which look very much like 16th or early 17th century Reticella designs. The introduction includes a short historical background in which it explains that making reticella-like lace with bobbins is a very old practice, and there are even pictures of extant 16th/17th century lace of this kind. The text is in German and French only, but the author points out in the introduction that she prefers to explain things with pictures, so in fact the text is fairly minimal - about 100-200 words for each pattern, plus captions for pictures. My French reading skills aren't *quite* up to it, but I'm sure with a dictionary and perhaps asking a friend I'll be able to figure it out :) Based on what I paid for it in Canada I'd expect it to be going for around $30 US, roughly. Hope that's helpful to some, Kirrily _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 11:48:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5GmxOL015114 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:48:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Gm5cC002987; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Gm4Lu004130; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:48:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Gm1Lu004103 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B411036B0D for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:48:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AHQp6-0003F2-00 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:48:00 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] email questions Re: Primary? Secondary? In-Reply-To: <3FA8FAA1.80400@thibault.org> References: <000801c3a39e$02892b10$3e6453d8@Kass> <3FA8FAA1.80400@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:48:00 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Kass McGann wrote: >> Robin wrote: >> e-mail list with the same question, plus one more line: "I don't have >> time to go to the library." > > Yeah, I get that one moderately often, both for my own pages and > answering general questions for the sca.org visitors. I wonder if they > realize that the translation is "I'm too lazy?" > >> but from students working on a project that needs >> to be done tomorrow. > > "Please send me a video about medieval hats" is one of the best ones > I've gotten. But the ones from people with really interesting questions > make it all worthwhile. OK, I've got one to top all of these. I run a website called ElizabethanGeek (http://elizabethangeek.com/). One of the things there is a "wiki", which is a sort of website where any visitor can edit the pages, resulting in a collaboratively generated resource on whatever topic - in my case, Elizabethan history. If a page hasn't been written yet, clicking on the link will bring up an "edit" page where you can simply type in information. So much for the background. One of the subjects we hadn't yet written about was animal husbandry in the Elizabethan period. So some guy came along, presumably looking for, err, let's just assume something else entirely, and found this link. He clicked on it, got this edit screen, and left the following message: i wanna to know aktivitas and u can give me brosur send to : jl petung no 18a papringan jogjakata junus bregman gintig What can one possibly answer to that? ObCostume: check out the ElizabethanCostume page in the wiki (http://elizabethangeek.com/wiki/index.cgi?ElizabethanCostume) and feel free to add any information you think is missing. Yours, Kirrily _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 12:12:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5HCMOL015454 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:12:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HBLcC005561; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:11:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HBJCP026484; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:11:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HBFCP026423 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:11:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.90]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:10:23 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Reticella lace Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:11:15 -0500 Message-ID: <004101c3a3bf$d2f72880$3e6453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Luckily I bought it just a week ago :) Here are the details: Author: Brigitte Bellon Title: Geklo:ppelte Reticella/Dentelle Reticella aux Fuseaux (the o: indicates an umlaut) Pub: Gammelby 1998 Hope that's helpful to some, >>>> Thank you, thank you, thank you, Kirrily! Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 12:13:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5HDROL015464 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:13:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HCPcC005679; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:12:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HCOCP027514; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:12:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HCMCP027474 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:12:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.90]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:11:30 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] email questions Re: Primary? Secondary? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:12:22 -0500 Message-ID: <004201c3a3bf$fb13b680$3e6453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kirrily wrote concerning the following message: i wanna to know aktivitas and u can give me brosur send to : jl petung no 18a papringan jogjakata junus bregman gintig What can one possibly answer to that? >>>> What can one possibly make out of that? I got the first line, but any idea what the rest is supposed to be? Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 12:21:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5HLnOL015551 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:21:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HL8cC006524; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:21:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HL2CP005523; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HKvCP005310 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:20:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FA48425CE for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:25:53 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FA93215.3060507@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:23:33 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] email questions References: <000801c3a39e$02892b10$3e6453d8@Kass> <3FA8FAA1.80400@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kirrily Robert wrote: > What can one possibly answer to that? The ones that annoy me are when they have their email account set to reject mail from people not in their address book. They go web surfing, write to me, and my reply bounces. Then they write again, more urgently. And I still can't reply. I had one couple writing to me for about 6 weeks, trying to get me to answer them, with their mail set to reject everything. :( For most of the folks who write with "help i need a renasance outfit can u help me?" I just gently ask them if they can narrow that down to a specific country and a time period (decade) and get back to me, then I would be happy to discuss patterns with them. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 12:23:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5HNVOL015564 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:23:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HMjcC006809; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:22:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HMiCP007308; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:22:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA5HMfCP007165 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OvrxR+E0fn0UOJ2dKWNgVFs=">; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:21:33 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JD85NZGC; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:21:33 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:20:28 -0800 Message-ID: <20031105.092028.488.9.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Subject: [h-cost] headbands X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of mine came up with an absolutely inspired idea for veil headbands. She's very prone to migraines, so anything that binds her head is not a good idea. She uses first aid tape, the stretchy kind that sticks to itself, and is super easy to adjust (lift the ends and restick it wear you want), and pins her veils to that. Works like a charm. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 12:43:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5Hh5OL015688 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:43:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HgBcC008996; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:42:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Hg8CP025203; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:42:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Hg6CP025155 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:42:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839C936971 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:42:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AHRfR-0003Ik-00 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:42:05 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] email questions Re: Primary? Secondary? In-Reply-To: <004201c3a3bf$fb13b680$3e6453d8@Kass> References: <004201c3a3bf$fb13b680$3e6453d8@Kass> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:42:05 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kass wrote: > What can one possibly make out of that? I got the first line, but any > idea what the rest is supposed to be? It's a postal address in Indonesia, I think. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 12:53:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5HrU2q017946 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:53:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HqjcC009972; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:52:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HqiCP004703; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:52:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HqdCP004654 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:52:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.90]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:51:47 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] email questions Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:52:40 -0500 Message-ID: <004701c3a3c5$9bd554c0$3e6453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <3FA93215.3060507@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: <> The ones that get me are "What did the Scots/Irish/Japanese wear in the [insert century]?" when my entire site is dedicated to those subjects and all they had to do was look at the sections labeled "Scottish", "Irish" or "Japanese" and the first paragraphs would answer them. Of course then there are the "what did my name used to mean in 16th century Scotland?" or "what's my clan tartan?" There's nothing remotely like this on my site and I don't know why people think that because I wrote something on the origins of the kilt that I know their personal genealogy. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 12:58:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5Hvx2q019637 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:58:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Hv1cC010394; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Hv0jX008823; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5HuwjX008780 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:56:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.90]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:56:05 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] email questions Re: Primary? Secondary? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:56:57 -0500 Message-ID: <004801c3a3c6$3582c300$3e6453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kirrily wrote: <> Oh, I see. I couldn't identify a country name... Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 15:36:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5KaG2q025074 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:36:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5KYPcC025948; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:34:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5KYJ6h006690; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:34:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f49.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5KYG6h006596 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:34:11 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.33 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:34:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.33] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:34:11 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2003 20:34:11.0484 (UTC) FILETIME=[2B85FDC0:01C3A3DC] Subject: [h-cost] SCA sites (was Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject of X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Kass McGann" >...But thanks for pointing out the distinction, Marc. I've had to work very hard to avoid that classification myself :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 15:45:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5Kjv2q025091 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:45:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Kj8cC027085; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:45:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Kj66h017456; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:45:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f29.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Kis6h017149 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:44:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:44:49 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.33 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:44:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.33] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:44:49 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2003 20:44:49.0359 (UTC) FILETIME=[A7B9FDF0:01C3A3DD] Subject: [h-cost] email questions Re: Primary? Secondary? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Cynthia Virtue >Kass McGann wrote: >>Robin wrote: >>e-mail list with the same question, plus one more line: "I don't have >>time to go to the library." >Yeah, I get that one moderately often, both for my own pages and >answering general questions for the sca.org visitors. I wonder if they >realize that the translation is "I'm too lazy?" You know, I get paid to be a university librarian -- I *still* get this from college students, and those who don't realize that when they say "I've been here for 5 years and have never even been IN here - where's whatever?" they aren't impressing anyone. It's not helped by the fact that many students haven't been taught that the internet isn't what I call the Great Star Trek Database, where things can just be handed to them, full text, with no problems. Marc > > but from students working on a project that needs > > to be done tomorrow. > >"Please send me a video about medieval hats" is one of the best ones >I've gotten. But the ones from people with really interesting questions >make it all worthwhile. > >-- >Cynthia Virtue and/or >Cynthia du Pré Argent > >------------------------------ > >Message: 10 >Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:42:09 -0500 >From: "Kass McGann" >Subject: RE: [h-cost] email questions Re: Primary? Secondary? >To: "'Historical Costume'" >Message-ID: <001501c3a3a2$9ca64e40$3e6453d8@Kass> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Cynthia wrote: ><<"Please send me a video about medieval hats" is one of the best ones >I've gotten. But the ones from people with really interesting questions >make it all worthwhile.>> > >Yes indeed! Or the sheer enthusiasm of someone who's discovered a new >love. There's nothing quite as thrilling as getting an email from >someone who's practically drooling on herself because she found on your >site what she's been search for in libraries and on other sites for >years. > >That's kinda the reason I don't take anything down on my site even >though I may not be interested in it anymore and don't update it. >People still find what they're looking for there. =) > >Kass > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 11 >Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:50:40 -0700 >From: "Tori Ruhl" >Subject: [h-cost] Black Diamonds >To: >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >Just a quick note: > >When I said "painted diamonds black", I meant by artists in portraiture, >not the diamond itself. > > >T. > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 12 >Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:02:46 +0000 >From: Lynne Connolly >Subject: Re: [h-cost] going to England >To: Historical Costume >Message-ID: <6.0.0.14.0.20031105140225.024d4d68@pop.ntlworld.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >On 13:08 05/11/2003 Sue Clemenger said > > > You can book to see special items of costume you're interested in at >the > > > V&A. The list is currently about 8 weeks long. > > > If you're interested in the early-mid17th century, I have a favour to >ask > > > you about the construction of extant hats... > >There's an email link on the website. They're very good at responding. > > >Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT >Award winning Historical Romance author. >http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ >The Richard and Rose books from >Novelbooks >Inc. >YORKSHIRE, DEVONSHIRE and now VENICE. VANESSA from >Awe-Struck > >-------------- next part -------------- > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 03/11/2003 > >------------------------------ > >Message: 13 >Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:12:20 -0500 >From: Judy Mitchell >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Saami clothes (was: RE: Facial and body types & > costume) >To: Historical Costume >Message-ID: <3FA91354.9090800@oldwaylane.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > >Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > There's a certain amount of historic information in: > > > > Gjessing, Gjertrud & Guto. 1940. Lappedrakten. H. Aschuhoug & Co, >Oslo. > > > > (Forgive me for not going upstairs to get more details ... I'd have to > > disturb the cat.) > > Oh I quite understand about the cat. ;-) Thanks for the >book suggestion, I'll see if ILL can find it. I've got a few >books and Fred Struthers has found me a couple more, and >that June Swann footwear book has some great info on the >shoes, but one of my biggest issues is what on earth gets >worn beneath that lovely blue tunic/dress? Nothing ever >describes all the layers. maybe there is no underclothing, >but that would seem odd. I know modern Saami just wear a >shirt, sometimes hiding it with a scarf at the neck, but >19th century Saami, or earlier? > > -Judy Mitchell > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 14 >Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:42:51 -0500 (EST) >From: Drea Leed >Subject: Re: [h-cost] going to England >To: Historical Costume >Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com >Message-ID: <20031105094050.L89895-100000@shell.siscom.net> >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >Kew?? Three words, baby: Public Records Office! :) They are located in >Kew, and have manuscripts, inventories, wardrobe accounts, wills, etc. >dating back to the 10th century. Lots of the info in Arnold's Queen >Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd came from the PRO. In fact, I plan to plant >myself there for two weeks in February, transcribing as fast as my little >fingers will allow. > >Victoria and Albert Museum is, I think, another "must see". Their textile >study rooms are phenomenal. > >Have fun! > >Drea > > >On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, grey wrote: > > > Hi, > > I am lucky enough to be going to England to work for the next 10 >months, living in Kew, in south western London. This means time to do >some of the costumey things that a short trip just won't allow. >Recommendations please :-) > > Also, I recall that there is a lady on this list who has been involved >with training at the Royal armoury in Leeds. > > Please will she be kind enough to contact me, my husband and I fence >and are interested in what is on offer there. > > > > TIA > > > > Annette Wilson > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 15 >Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:42:51 -0500 (EST) >From: Drea Leed >Subject: Re: [h-cost] going to England >To: Historical Costume >Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com >Message-ID: <20031105094050.L89895-100000@shell.siscom.net> >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >Kew?? Three words, baby: Public Records Office! :) They are located in >Kew, and have manuscripts, inventories, wardrobe accounts, wills, etc. >dating back to the 10th century. Lots of the info in Arnold's Queen >Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd came from the PRO. In fact, I plan to plant >myself there for two weeks in February, transcribing as fast as my little >fingers will allow. > >Victoria and Albert Museum is, I think, another "must see". Their textile >study rooms are phenomenal. > >Have fun! > >Drea > > >On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, grey wrote: > > > Hi, > > I am lucky enough to be going to England to work for the next 10 >months, living in Kew, in south western London. This means time to do >some of the costumey things that a short trip just won't allow. >Recommendations please :-) > > Also, I recall that there is a lady on this list who has been involved >with training at the Royal armoury in Leeds. > > Please will she be kind enough to contact me, my husband and I fence >and are interested in what is on offer there. > > > > TIA > > > > Annette Wilson > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >End of h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 745 >***************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 15:55:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5Ktd2q025118 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:55:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5KsYcC028143; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:54:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5KsX6h026935; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:54:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f120.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5KsT6h026785 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:54:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:54:23 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.33 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:54:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.33] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:54:23 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2003 20:54:23.0573 (UTC) FILETIME=[FDFC1850:01C3A3DE] Subject: [h-cost] email questions Re: Primary? Secondary? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I still think my favorite was some woman asking me about the Archangel Gabriel, wanting to prove some argument she was having with her boyfriend about whether Gabriel was another name for the Devil, or some other equally highly unusual assertion (my own fault, I maintain a large number of pages). Marc _________________________________________________________________ >From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 16:26:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5LQj2q025243 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:26:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5LNjcC001395; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:23:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5LNZFc024692; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:23:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5LNVFc024613 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:23:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F13736B42 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:23:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AHV7h-0003Z7-00 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:23:29 -0500 To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:23:29 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Subject: [h-cost] 17th century resources X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hope nobody minds me asking a more general question which is not specifically about costume. It looks like I might be getting involved in a group which does 17th century (England, late 1630s, to be exact). Does anyone have recommendations for resources for that period which are *not* specifically military? I am interested in general living history resources for the most part, and ideally would like to find a 17th century living history mailing list. If there is no such mailing list, would those who do 17th century civilian stuff (I know there are some here) be interested in starting one? Of course, recommendations for costuming resources are also welcome :) I have (or have wishlisted and will get soon) most of the usual books for 17th century, and I'm aware of Kass's site and Nicole's and I've looked at the Hollar engravings on costume.org and figured out what I want to wear, so if you have any recommendations beyond that please let me know :) Yours, Kirrily _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 16:59:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5Lxu2q025340 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:59:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5LwGcC004588; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:58:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5LwDfB027783; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:58:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Lw7fB027681 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:58:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from p44-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.108] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AHVfA-0000P3-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:58:05 +1300 Message-ID: <00ce01c3a3e7$e5688130$6cccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c3a39e$02892b10$3e6453d8@Kass> <3FA8FAA1.80400@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] email questions Re: Primary? Secondary? Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:58:06 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As I have a few resourse sites within my site it's rather amusing comparing the emails I get from each one. The best one was for my Moulin Rouge costuming site: " Hello!!! Any of these pages sound AMAZING :) I\'m looking for any thumbnails, sketches etc. by Catherine Martin. If you could provide me with some addys relating to such topics, I would be VERY appreciative (atm I can\'t find anything!:( Thankyou soooooooooo much for taking the time 4 this..." The whole site *is* a bundle of links so I have no idea what people are doing not knowing that you click on a link... I even have the links written as urls to avoid any confusion.... yet they managed to fill out the mail form.... odd odd odd. Then again I keep getting some guy and his fetish for rustling skirts emailing me as well... Personal site I got (re another Moulin Rouge costume I'm guessing) "where did you get the feathers and the corset cause i would love to know?????" It does say on the page how I drafted and sewed it all... And other example of people asking for the impossible: " hello, I have been searching for a long while on the internet for the black diamonds outfit. If you could send me the pattern it would be greatly appreaciated" Why yes, I drafted my pattern to fit me and I'm just going to send you the pattern and all the info for free! And this: "WHERE WHEN DID YOU RECEVIE YOUR TRAING ON HOW TO MAKE THOSE BIG BEAUTIFUL HATS TITINAC OR ADUREY HEPBURN IN MY FAIR LADY I WOULD LIKE TO LEARN TO MAKE THESE HAT PLEASE E-MAIL ME WITH ANY INFORMATION HOW I CAN LEARN FROM A BOOK CORRESPONDENE " Just a sample of the latest great emails;) that said when someone is absolutely busting with enthusiasm for a project they are doing that I have done I'm generous with my time and share experiences. And people have been wonderfully generous with their own praise which is always lovely:) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 17:30:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5MUP2q025460 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:30:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MTZcC007586; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MTWpL026854; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:29:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MTOpL026719 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:29:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip176.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.176]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB9636DDB4 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:29:22 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:29:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book find Message-ID: <3FA90947.13361.293B6C4B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.1.1.6.0.20031104215837.012e0d28@radiks.net> References: <200311050109.hA5193js014491@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It seems to be very good for this era, with portraits indexed by > sitter and painter. Lots of scholarly commentary. Most pics in B & W > :(, but some in color. The interesting thing is that the color ones > are separate plates that are attached to the page by the top edge > only. I'm sure it was done as a cost thing - printing the picture > only and inserting it into the book has to cost less than printing a > whole page in color and then having to make sure it's bound in > separately. It's pub date is 1969 and it was done in Britain. More > info if anyone wants it. This was because they couldn't just print out color pictures easily in 1969. So, they printed it out whatever way they could, then inserted into the book which was otherwise printed by a different method. What's amazing is that when I bought a new copy of this in 1984 (with my first post-residency pay check) they were still printing them this way. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 17:44:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5Mim2q025560 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:44:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MhwcC008901; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:43:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MhupL009791; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:43:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MhspL009769 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:43:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip176.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.176]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1EE96F5D0 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:43:52 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:43:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garbing Arlys Message-ID: <3FA90CA8.26452.29489FB0@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <20031104.100310.500.0.Cley@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Nah, I was thinking of Judith with the head of Holofernes. Lovely > red with gold horizontal stripes on the skirt, far from your face. > > Let's see, who can we get to play Holofernes? How about W***? > > Regina Naughty Regina. However, I think that A****** might be an even better one than that. But it's a tossup! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 17:44:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5Mis2q025563 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:44:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MiAcC008927; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:44:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Mi9pL009993; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MhupL009786 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:43:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip176.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.176]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DCCE6F96A for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:43:54 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:43:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Message-ID: <3FA90CA8.5943.2948A09A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00c701c3a383$729d4aa0$c5ce36cb@clarke> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If the Scottish is Lowland Scottish you might be more English than > you think *grin* Or it could just be that standard genetic variation > within any one regional group is sufficent to produce people who look > fabulous in a style and people who look terrible in it. In which case > we're right back to 'I would have looked terrible in it in period'. > Claire I know that the originator of my last name (Russell) is English, but that person emigrated (rather hurredly, the family records indicate due to some major religious differences) to Scotland during Mary I's reign. (Daddy and big brother fared much better. Look at the Duke of Bedford's family to see what the primary line did.) However, they were part of the Highland clearances. (Most of them were either weavers or Presbyterian ministers.) Mom's family came from a town at the head of Loch Tay called Killin (which was also the family's last name). I don't know if that is considered Highland or Lowland. (Jean, do you know?) However, I wouldn't cavil at being considered English for all that. In terms of genetics the Scots and the English are pretty similar mixes. Most of the facial type mixing seems to occur in shifts. That's why some places had more specific facial types in some areas. Things would change after a wave of migration came through. And what the predominant mix looked like depended on what had come through and when. However, no matter how well you know your current geneology, chances are that you wouldn't necessarily look like someone from the same area 500 years ago (because of those shifts.) And there is also something my father always called the "woodpile effect." This is best illustrated by some of the recent studies showing that no matter how black or white you looked, chances are some of your genetic makeup had the opposite "color" in it. These studies are currently really causing a stir in the medical community because we're finding that we can't depend on people's family histories to figure out some sorts of genetic diseases anymore. They are sometimes popping up unexpectedly. It was always assumed that was because it was a "mutation" but there may be more to it than that. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 17:46:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5MkL2q025620 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:46:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MjdcC009146; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:45:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MjcpL011618; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:45:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MjYpL011544 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:45:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.165]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id hA5NEHV10919 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:14:17 +1100 Message-ID: <006601c3a3ee$d65a6c60$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002401c3a365$d004b660$c14f08d2@c9o0e1><040701c3a376$6160ad20$eaf4fea9@glendaii> <3FA8F649.A09D3832@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] going to England Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:47:44 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Send an email to the Textiles and Fashion department. Textiles and Fashion Tel: +44 (0)20 7942 2680 E-mail: textilesandfashion@vam.ac.uk (details from the website). They're very prompt at answering. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] going to England > Really? Any idea of who you contact to do that? > --sue, planning ahead.... > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 17:47:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5Mli2q025699 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:47:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MkscC009232; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:46:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MkqpL012714; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:46:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MknpL012657 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip176.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.176]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8EB6AA53 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:46:48 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:46:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair Message-ID: <3FA90D5D.4142.294B60E3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Sometimes a craftsman in that period would know *about* something > > but wouldn't know enough to appropriately represent it. And they may > > have seen a textile which they are trying to paint, but don't have > > it in front of them to get all the textures correct. > > Just grab a piece of paper and try to draw a bicycle, without looking > at a picture. It's not as easy as it sounds, for most people, even if > it's something we've all used and/or owned before, and seen > frequently. Exactly!! What a good example! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 18:00:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5N0V2q025780 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:00:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Mt1cC010122; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5Mt0pL020100; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:55:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5MsspL019985 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:54:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip176.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.176]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E9A36FA02 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:54:51 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:54:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary? Secondary? (was: On the Subject ofDocumentation) Message-ID: <3FA90F3F.12684.2952BDD6@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FA8233C.1020903@thibault.org> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It serves to illustrate why some of us in the SCA end up gnawing > pencils in half. Someone told me on an email list about a > reproduction fork he made, and he had an actual elizabethan fork as > his source, and he was downgraded for not citing books. Exactly! We need better education of our durned judges. But how do you a) get enough people to judge and b) have them well educated enough to do the job properly. Balancing those two ideas is always the sticking point. My husband actually brought the durn primary source in and two of the judges down graded him for not having photocopied pictoral sources. He would have actually done better if he had scanned the set of tools and gave them that! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 18:02:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5N2a2q025807 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:02:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5N1ucC010891; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:01:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5N1sJg027051; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:01:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA5N1oJg027000 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:01:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13755 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:25:59 -0600 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:25:59 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) In-Reply-To: <3FA90CA8.5943.2948A09A@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > And there is also something my father always called the "woodpile > effect." This is best illustrated by some of the recent studies > showing that no matter how black or white you looked, chances are some > of your genetic makeup had the opposite "color" in it. These studies > are currently really causing a stir in the medical community because > we're finding that we can't depend on people's family histories to > figure out some sorts of genetic diseases anymore. They are sometimes > popping up unexpectedly. It was always assumed that was because it was > a "mutation" but there may be more to it than that. One reason for that is that true "family history" is often distilled down to "race" or "ethinicity" or "skin color," which is very misleading. For instance, the oversimplification of racial labels based on skin color means that I'm designated as "white" these days, on my medical records and everywhere else, though just a few decades ago I would not have been called "white" (being of Russian Jewish heritage), because the term meant "Western European." But medical standards for "whites" are still based on Western Europeans. As little as 15 years ago my doctors were routinely confused because I was lactose intolerant, and they had been taught that that was a condition of nonwhites, and I was clearly "white." (Meanwhile I'd been diagnosed with all sorts of dire gastrointestinal disorders by doctors who hadn't considered the simple explanation of lactose intolerance for my symptoms.) Lactose *tolerance* is actually a condition common to Western Europeans, but not to people of most other genetic backgrounds, regardless of skin tone. And Western European genes aren't limited to a subset of white-skinned people either, as Kat notes; the average "African American" has far more Western European genetic influence (I think it's around 30%) than I do, and is much more likely to be able to digest milk in adulthood than someone of my background. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 19:01:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA601N2q026585 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:01:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA600TcC015874; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:00:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA600MiJ020571; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:00:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA600JiJ020482 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:00:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA600DY22540 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:00:13 -0500 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:06:17 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <000c01c39fd7$e2249860$6501a8c0@SG01> Message-Id: <0B0675E1-0FED-11D8-9EB4-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] Arnegunde's artifacts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, Does anyone know where the Arnegunde artifacts are being kept? The Museum of Nancy did the initial work in 1962, but I can't find who has the artifacts now. The Museum is now mostly Art Nouveau, so I don't know if they would still have the artifacts. There were textiles found buried with her and I am looking for information on who has the garments, IF they still exist. The only published article I could find is from 1964 in _Antiquity_. Thanks! best regards, Althea Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 20:41:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA61fT2q027318 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:41:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA61eWcC022725; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:40:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA61ePiA021736; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:40:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA61eOiA021720 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-56-078.jps.net ([209.165.56.78] helo=pavilion) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AHZ8F-0004GB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:40:19 -0800 Message-ID: <001d01c3a407$a6a40800$4e38a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c3a39e$02892b10$3e6453d8@Kass><3FA8FAA1.80400@thibault.org> <00ce01c3a3e7$e5688130$6cccadcb@michaela> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:45:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] OT - Are u responsible for the voices in my head? was email questions Re: Primary? Secondary? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of strange questions, I used to work with radio and satellite communications and the most frequent question I got was "my son/daughter is doing a report on satellite communication......can you tell me something about blah blah blah." To which I always replied that I would be happy to assist with the project, tell your son or daughter to give me a call. At least Marc is getting the students to ask him the questions. Best question regarding radio.......Are HF radio waves from world war II still around and can I listen to one? Answer theoretically yes, in fact, all crimes could be solved by amplifiying old sound waves if you could only locate the right one and catch up to it. Very best satellite question came from a little old lady who wanted to know some very technical infomation about what band we transmitted on. After speaking to her for sometime it became apparent that she was a paranoid schitzophrenic who was wanting to know if we were responsible for the voices in her head. I explained how yes we do transmit frequencies but she would need a reciever to pick them up. As she had once worn a first alert button once she said she could now pick up signals without a receiver, she had an answer/explaination for everything I proposed. Knowing that she truely was hearing voices, I asked her if she was getting a bill from us as we were a commercial service and if we were sending her voices, we would also be charging her for our services. She said no, and was quite content after that that the voices were being sent by someone else, probably the competition. Costume content - There is an emerging field of physic anthropology/history that says you can go back in time to see any moment in history and view what transpired. I must ask one of these people about those iron corsets and their true use! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 22:12:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA63CI2q027945 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:12:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA63BccC027900; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:11:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA63BZxt010138; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:11:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA63BUxu010111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:11:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA63CFOS027723 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:12:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA63CFBb027720 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:12:15 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century resources Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:12:15 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311052212.15193.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 05 November 2003 04:23 pm, Kirrily Robert wrote: > I hope nobody minds me asking a more general question which is not > specifically about costume. > > It looks like I might be getting involved in a group which does 17th > century (England, late 1630s, to be exact). Does anyone have > recommendations for resources for that period which are *not* > specifically military? I am interested in general living history > resources for the most part, and ideally would like to find a 17th > century living history mailing list. If there is no such mailing list, > would those who do 17th century civilian stuff (I know there are some > here) be interested in starting one? [snip] I don't know of any mailing lists for 17th century, but I do know of another costuming site: Caroline Vincent's: http://www.vincents.demon.co.uk/stays/index.htm -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 5 22:31:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA63Vm2q028029 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:31:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA63TjcC028824; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:29:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA63Thxt019342; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:29:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA63Tcxu019306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:29:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA63UOOS027883 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:30:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA63UOUA027881 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:30:24 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Arnegunde's artifacts Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:30:23 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <0B0675E1-0FED-11D8-9EB4-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> In-Reply-To: <0B0675E1-0FED-11D8-9EB4-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311052230.23818.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 05 November 2003 07:06 pm, Althea Turner wrote: > Greetings all, > > Does anyone know where the Arnegunde artifacts are being kept? The > Museum of Nancy did the initial work in 1962, but I can't find who has > the artifacts now. The Museum is now mostly Art Nouveau, so I don't > know if they would still have the artifacts. There were textiles found > buried with her and I am looking for information on who has the > garments, IF they still exist. The only published article I could find > is from 1964 in _Antiquity_. This site: http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/ujg/ujgf.html Claims they're at "(Paris: Dir. d'Antic. hist.)" That's all I can find. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 02:13:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA67DH2q002030 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 02:13:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA67CXcC010761; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 00:12:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA67CUck012237; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 00:12:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.159]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA67CRck012209 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 00:12:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-99-223.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.99.223]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BIH22383; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 07:12:23 GMT Message-ID: <019101c3a436$24df2960$da604ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0B0675E1-0FED-11D8-9EB4-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Arnegunde's artifacts Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 07:18:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the late 90s it was here I believe http://www.germanembassy-india.org/news/june97/76gn18.htm Antiquity_ 1) Saint-Denis, Paris: opening of grave of Queen Arnegunde, 38:208-15 2) Cloth of Hemp, over body of Queen Arnegunde (6th century), 38:212, 287 3) Arnegunde, Queen (6th century): grave and grave-goods, 38:208-15 Gedenkschrift für Gero von Merhart zum 100. Geburtstag. Von Otto-Herman Frey (Hrsg.) ISBN: 3-89646-120-6 Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 02:24:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA67OD2q006281 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 02:24:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA67NacC011134; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 00:23:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA67NZck017338; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 00:23:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA67NWck017264 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 00:23:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6291EB70094; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 01:20:09 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A62513101EE; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 01:20:05 -0600 Message-ID: <02a001c3a436$a7e81560$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 02:21:53 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] I'm Back X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I am back from my three-day trip to DC for the VA high school theater convention (VTA). I am so very proud of my Patrick... he is a techie and has never acted. He entered a workshop for playwriting... don't know what possessed him to try this. He has big learning disabilities in reading and writing. They put five kids together from five different schools... in 24 hours they had to write, block, produce, and act a play for five minutes. All five students had to be in the play. Patrick had the lead role, did a wonderful job, and wasn't nervous. Their group received a standing ovation!!! AND they took second place in the competition of nine groups. 1st place went to a classmate's group from Pat's school. These were the only awards their school took home. One of the plays we saw this past weekend was "The Complete Works of Shakespeare: Unabridged." All done in 45 mins... then after completing the play, they did the whole play in reverse, like rewinding on a VCR. It was so funny!!!!!!! It won the VTA competition. So they will go to Nationals. The three main actors were a riot... like watching Robin Williams, Whoopi, and Billy Crystal. The actors played off of one another so great! This would be a wonderful play to use at a Renn Faire. Pat got to talk with Longwood University and they are VERY interested in him going to school there as a theater tech major. (Mike T. he is taking your advice) We are going by the university this weekend, it is 1 1/2 hours away. Then they invited Pat to work tech week for three days starting 14th for their school play. This way they get to try him out before accepting him. I hope this will help him get a scholarship that the school offers. Govt. financial aid will cover tuition but not enough to cover all of room and board while he is a freshman. So please cross your fingers for Pat!!!! I am sorry that I haven't been online much since I returned... our comcast internet has been on and off for the past three days... more off than on. I won't be home much from Thursday (today) -Tuesday of next week. My best friend from high school is coming to visit us. It was 18 years ago since she was last at our house. So we are touring all the historic sites in our area. Tomorrow or Friday we are going to Agecroft Hall... originally built in the 1000s after the Battle of Hastings and was moved to Richmond in the 1920s from England. The majority of the mansion is in Tudor style. Its been on America's Castles. Saturday, we are going to the premiere of a film that Patrick worked techie work on last summer. It is at a film festival and critics from all over the U.S. are coming in to view to view the films. YES!!!!!! Pat's name will be in the credits. (We have lived for this day!) I told Pat if he gets an Oscar, that I will run up on stage, and take it (of course in my best gown). Then Pat can have my fake Oscar. Susan is back from England. When she gets over her jet-lag, I hope she will come on the list and tell you what all she saw. She did see the Gothic exhibit at the V&A. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 04:28:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA69S72q015519 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 04:28:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA69RQcC015244; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 02:27:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA69RLjq010265; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 02:27:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA69RIjq010238 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 02:27:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hA69SbA04569.; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:28:37 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 09:27:14 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 09:26:57 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century resources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was going to suggest Caroline Vincent's site, but Cathy has beaten me to it. I don't know Caroline personally, but she belongs to my reenactment society, the Sealed Knot. http://www.sealedknot.org/index.asp The Living History Group is our civilian branchhttp://www.livinghistorygroup.co.uk/ Not forgetting the "rival" group http://www.english-civil-war-society.org/public_html/ I don't know of any 17c mailing lists, but there's a big 17c reenactment community here in the UK which might provide potential members for one. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 09:08:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6E8t2q004726 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:08:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6E86cC027489; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 07:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6E832w005851; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 07:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6E7x2w005797 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 07:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hA6E9NA28672.; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:09:23 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:07:57 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:07:25 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Somebody (I've lost track of who) wrote: > Don't assume that because you are English that you are not from a > "melting pot." When you consider all the influences to England over > the centuries you come to realize that it is not as homogenous as you > might think. For example, you could have both Pict (short, dark) and > Scandinavian (tall, blond) blood. I thought the same thing when I read Robin's earlier comment about a group of people looking typically American because they were of varying physical types. Even ignoring Commonwealth immigration, we British are a pretty mixed lot. My mother (born 1912) has a fair complexion and her hair used to be auburn; her sister is very dark, and their brother started with fair hair which turned brown later. She told me recently that their three cousins had the same three colourings. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 10:11:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6FBp2q004889 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:11:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6FBAcC001613; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:11:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6FB72O012231; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:11:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6FB52O012199 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:11:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.67]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:10:06 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT - Are u responsible for the voices in my head? was emailquestions Re: Primary? Secondary? Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:11:02 -0500 Message-ID: <002301c3a478$32d00430$436453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <001d01c3a407$a6a40800$4e38a5d1@pavilion> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa said <> Lisa, now you just HAVE to elaborate on that one! Good going with the schizophrenic woman. I wouldn't have known what to do yet you handled it graciously and with humour. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 10:28:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6FSn2q004946 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:28:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6FS8cC002989; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:28:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6FS62O024162; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:28:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6FS32O024099 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bee6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.230]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BE67D4800A7 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:28:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000501c3a47b$09564fd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002301c3a478$32d00430$436453d8@Kass> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Are u responsible for the voices in my head? wasemailquestions Re: Primary? Secondary? Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:31:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Perhaps Lisa was reffering to those psykic (sorry i cant spell this right) people who can take you back to your life before this. Here in Denmark we have a very famous man who does that. They are showing some peoples experienses with this in the danish television right now. They follow the persons experienses, and then they travel to this place where they lived before to see if they can find some of those places they were talking about in the sessions. As i dont believe in those kind of things, i would not try to be taken back in time to my former lives. In my eyes it is crab. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 4:11 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT - Are u responsible for the voices in my head? wasemailquestions Re: Primary? Secondary? > Lisa said > < anthropology/history > that says you can go back in time to see any moment in history and view > what > transpired. I must ask one of these people about those iron corsets and > their true use!>> > > Lisa, now you just HAVE to elaborate on that one! > > Good going with the schizophrenic woman. I wouldn't have known what to > do yet you handled it graciously and with humour. > > Kass > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 10:58:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6Fwd2q005048 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:58:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6FvTcC005399; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:57:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6FvRta016226; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:57:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6FvNta016172 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:57:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.67]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:56:30 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT - Are u responsible for the voices in my head?wasemailquestions Re: Primary? Secondary? Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:57:27 -0500 Message-ID: <002b01c3a47e$ae21a160$436453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <000501c3a47b$09564fd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hA6FvNta016172 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: <> I think you mean the word that ends in a "p", Bjarne. ;) You know, it often gets discussed on costume lists how we would love to go back in time and see how things really were. But personally I think that would end it for me. Sure, I would love to know how the Irish really made those Fram air filter hats or what medieval women used as bust support. But once I knew, it'd be over. I'd have to find another hobby. =) My luck I'd go back to 16th century Ireland and they'd all be wearing drawstring-sleeved multi-coloured léinte covered in Celtic knotwork embroidery! Nah... That wouldn't be back in time. That'd be my version of hell. Worse than Walmart between Thanksgiving and Christmas... Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 12:39:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6Hdk2q005389 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:39:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6Hc2cC015693; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6Hbv9j018470; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:37:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6Hbp9j018325 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:37:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.112] (pm7-112.eos.net [205.133.149.112]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6HblmH001167 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:37:48 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:39:34 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311060001.hA600xiK021098@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: separate color pages X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In case anyone is interested: Kat is right, at one time it was common to print color pictures separately from black and white pages, usually at a different printer, and attach them at the top of the page. That's called "tipping" the picture in, and the picture is a "tip-in." Thanks to new color printing presses, digital printing techniques, and the huge Asian printing business, we are now used to books that are nearly all color printing. But even when I started in the magazine business about 12 years ago, this was not the case. We had to pay more to print color pages than B&W, and an in-between rate for pages with only one color (such as a bar of color, or a color headline). We had black & white signatures (groups of pages) and color signatures, and everything had to be laid out carefully or else we would get color in a b&w signature. Because magazines are printed on large sheets of paper and then cut and collated, you can imagine that this was a big job. We had a person on staff who specialized in arranging ("imposing") the pages correctly. Now imposition software handles all this, and it's all color anyway (or all one- or two-color). Most people have no idea how expensive color printing used to be. It was a difficult craft, a real specialty, and took a lot of training. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 13:02:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6I242q005473 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:02:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6Hw4cC018032; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:58:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6Hw2Ra008683; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6HvwRa008558 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:57:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A41A425D0 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:02:59 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FAA8C4E.4080108@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:00:46 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century resources References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kirrily Robert wrote: > It looks like I might be getting involved in a group which does 17th > century (England, late 1630s, to be exact). Does anyone have > recommendations for resources for that period which are *not* > specifically military? There are a couple groups set up with Yahoo (I searched under the term "17th century") that look promising. Unfortunately they are are 'members only' with unviewable posts, so there is no way to tell if the discussion is pertinent, inviting, or non-military without joining the group. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 13:07:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6I722q005484 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:07:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6I5ncC018888; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:05:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6I5kkw016894; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:05:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6I5gkw016730 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:05:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] (account ) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 4.1.1) with HTTP id 389822 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:05:36 -0800 From: "Lynn Downward" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: separate color pages To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro WebUser Interface v.4.1.1 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:05:36 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Boy-howdy, is Gail right about the color costs! I work for several research scientists who are sending out manuscripts for publication to places like Journal of Biological Chemistry, Science, Nature and the one we sent out this morning, American Journal of Medical Genetics. When these papers are accepted for publication, the charges are usually about $300 per color page, $75 for b/w pages. (Of course, these sceintists need to publish because that proves that they've used the grant money they've been given - no publications, no new grants). LynnD On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:39:34 -0500 Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > >In case anyone is interested: Kat is right, at one time >it was common to >print color pictures separately from black and white >pages, usually at a >different printer, and attach them at the top of the >page. That's called >"tipping" the picture in, and the picture is a "tip-in." > >Thanks to new color printing presses, digital printing >techniques, and the >huge Asian printing business, we are now used to books >that are nearly all >color printing. But even when I started in the magazine >business about 12 >years ago, this was not the case. We had to pay more to >print color pages >than B&W, and an in-between rate for pages with only one >color (such as a >bar of color, or a color headline). We had black & white >signatures (groups >of pages) and color signatures, and everything had to be >laid out carefully >or else we would get color in a b&w signature. Because >magazines are printed >on large sheets of paper and then cut and collated, you >can imagine that >this was a big job. We had a person on staff who >specialized in arranging >("imposing") the pages correctly. Now imposition software >handles all this, >and it's all color anyway (or all one- or two-color). > >Most people have no idea how expensive color printing >used to be. It was a >difficult craft, a real specialty, and took a lot of >training. > >Gail Finke > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume This e-mail message may contain information that is confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure, copying, or communication of the contents of this message is prohibited. If this message was received in error, please delete the message and any attachments from your computer. Thank you. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 13:34:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6IY92q005645 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:34:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6IX3cC021668; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:33:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6IX0kw014080; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6IWgkw013832 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:32:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1C3036930 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:32:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AHovw-0005TI-00 for ; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:32:40 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century resources In-Reply-To: <3FAA8C4E.4080108@reddawn.net> References: <3FAA8C4E.4080108@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:32:40 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > There are a couple groups set up with Yahoo (I searched under the term > "17th century") that look promising. Unfortunately they are are 'members > only' with unviewable posts, so there is no way to tell if the > discussion is pertinent, inviting, or non-military without joining the > group. Which ones did you find? I did that same search, and none seemed compelling. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 14:36:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6Jac2q006016 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:36:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JZjcC028003; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:35:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JZYbU015774; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:35:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JZSbU015590 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:35:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BAF5425D0 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:40:29 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FAAA328.9070703@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:38:16 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century resources References: <3FAA8C4E.4080108@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kirrily Robert wrote: > > Which ones did you find? I did that same search, and none seemed > compelling. 20 WimborneMilita 17th Century Reinactment group (only five members, not sure if it is stil viable) 26 guyfawkes This list is designed for those interested in the study and celebration of aspects of the Gunpowder Plot(England 1605). This is a general interest list accepting e.mail concerning all aspects- the plotters, the plot, bonfire celebrations, the 17th century in general....whatever! Remember Remember the 5th of November Gunpowder Treason and Plot. The list is hosted by the Center for Fawkesian Pursuits- http //www.bcpl.lib.md.us/~cbladey/guy/html/main.html (11 members, see above) 35 the_commonwealth In the 17th Century, after the fall of Oliver Cromwell’s Commonwealth—history's first communist republic—its Puritan leaders fled England for the Massachusetts Bay Colony. So the Commonwealth Government-in-Exile began, gaining hegemony through the balance-of-power politics of Thomas Cromwell, great-great-grand-uncle of Oliver. In the 19th Century, before the American Civil War, the updated Ghibellinism of Hegel was combined with Cromwell’s geopolitics in New Haven, Connecticut. The resulting ... more (not sure about the relevancy here) 64 livinghistorychildren this group will debate about if diferent things are peried for 16th 17th and 18th century and we will just talk about different things (5 members...) 75 TheRenaissanceTailor Welcome to the Renaissance Tailor egroup... This is a discussion group for people interested in 16th and 17th century tailoring, embellishment and accessories. Focus is on techniques from Europe (mainly France, England and Italy) but we also explore tailoring in Eastern Europe, Central Asia and Northern Africa. This is the companion egroup for the website http //www.vertetsable.com Because of the increase in spam, memberships are now approved by the list admin prior to activation. In most cases, ... more (259 members, this might be a go) I have no idea if these are still active. I would suspect that all except the last are dead. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 14:43:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6Jhh2q006069 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:43:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JgrcC028707; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:42:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JgpbU022622; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:42:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JglbU022552 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:42:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.122]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:20:23 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 17th century resources Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:21:18 -0500 Message-ID: <003e01c3a49b$2a6a46c0$436453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kirrily wrote: <> To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a specifically non-military 17th century list out there yet, but I would be very supportive of starting one. I belong to an ECW and a Thirty Years' War group but my interest isn't military in the slightest. Over the past year or so, there has been a great interest in running non-military events or events that at least had more than a "campfire" social atmosphere. Last December we had a Christmas gathering and we ran a small Ball at Mid-summer. I know that there would be people in my group who would love to participate in such a list where we could exchange ideas and information. And if we manage to make the trek to each other's events sometimes, all the better. If you'd like a non-Yahoo place to set it up, email me privately. She went on to say: <> I think you hit all the highlights, Kirrily. I don't have anything more to add to that list at this time, but a little bird has told me that a couple new 17th century sources are in the works. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 14:46:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6JkF2q006094 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:46:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JjWcC028971; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:45:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JjTbU024971; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:45:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JjPbU024899 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:45:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bebc.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.188]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C5B01262A81 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:45:23 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c3a49f$01334b40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century resources Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:48:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I dont know any 17th. century lists, if you find one, i would be interrested two. You are a lucky person that you have such a company near you. Important sources is also diary'es autobiografy and the like. There is Peppy's diary and i know of a wonderfull danish autobiografy, Leonora Christina, daughter of king Christian IV of Denmark, wrote a large autobiografy. I think it is translated to english, but i dont know the english title. In danish it is "Jammersminde" She was born in 1621 at Frederiksborg Castle, Denmark. She had a sad history. Her husband was later judged for treason, and was hunted all over Europe. They never got him, but in stead they arrested his wife Leonora, and she was taken to the blue tower of Copenhagen Castle where she spend 23 years in a terrible prison. She was Denmark's first lady, and the later queen envied her manners and splendid taste in fashion. She was partially raised by dutch relative family and she spended a lot of her life in splendour. Her family found her diarry in the end of 20th. century in the attic of their castle in Switzerland. Now the original book is at Frederiksborg Castle, exhibited. I have read her book 3 times, and actually i think i want to read it again. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 10:23 PM Subject: [h-cost] 17th century resources > I hope nobody minds me asking a more general question which is not > specifically about costume. > > It looks like I might be getting involved in a group which does 17th > century (England, late 1630s, to be exact). Does anyone have > recommendations for resources for that period which are *not* > specifically military? I am interested in general living history > resources for the most part, and ideally would like to find a 17th > century living history mailing list. If there is no such mailing list, > would those who do 17th century civilian stuff (I know there are some > here) be interested in starting one? > > Of course, recommendations for costuming resources are also welcome :) > I have (or have wishlisted and will get soon) most of the usual books > for 17th century, and I'm aware of Kass's site and Nicole's and I've > looked at the Hollar engravings on costume.org and figured out what I > want to wear, so if you have any recommendations beyond that please let > me know :) > > Yours, > > Kirrily > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 14:49:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6Jn72q006152 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:49:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JmFcC029264; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:48:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JmCbU027373; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:48:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6Jm9bU027311 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:48:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from HP411.jigrah.co.uk ([80.6.241.239]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.comESMTP <20031106194808.MTSX25471.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@HP411.jigrah.co.uk> for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:48:08 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20031106194530.00b33030@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt8296337-1938@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:48:10 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jill Hadfield Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century resources In-Reply-To: <3FAAA328.9070703@reddawn.net> References: <3FAA8C4E.4080108@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7B75526; boundary="=======1F0E54C5=======" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======1F0E54C5======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7B75526; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit And there's always the GAS Company = the Guild of Gentry and Allied Skills www.thegasco.org I think. Jill Sir Thomas Tyldesley's Regiment of Foote --=======1F0E54C5======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======1F0E54C5=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 14:52:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6Jqh2q006177 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:52:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JpfcC029611; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:51:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JpcbU000855; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:51:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6JpDbU000326 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:51:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57DFF1B2E0B for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:49:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 14621-03 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:49:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D7061B24E3 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:49:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <013601c3a49f$310fa4d0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002b01c3a47e$ae21a160$436453d8@Kass> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Are u responsible for the voices in myhead?wasemailquestions Re: Primary? Secondary? Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:50:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Nah... That wouldn't be back in time. That'd be my version of hell. > Worse than Walmart between Thanksgiving and Christmas... > > Kass NOTHING is worse than WalMart between Thanksgiving and Christmas Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 15:06:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6K6d2q006272 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:06:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6K5hcC001354; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:05:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6K5ckm014037; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:05:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6K5Xkm013906 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:05:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bebc.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.188]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BA73B262B40 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:05:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001801c3a4a1$d300f0d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:09:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] new books for my library X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Today i got 4 books i had ordered some time ago from Amazon. The best one of them is "Silk" by Jacques Anquetil. The book is in english, but i think the author is french. It has wonderfull large pictures of interresting silk fabrics, costumes and the like in the same quality as Fashion in Detail. The best picture is a photo in colour of a fine early 18th century court bodice, wonderfully embroidered :-) It also has some wonderfull fully coloured large portraits, amongst them is the portrait of Elizabeth in the embroidered forepart, also seen in the book by Arnold. And some wonderfull paintings by Jean Antoine de 'Troy, wich i have never seen before. I have seen old watercolour drawings of this bodice before, but it is nice to see in in the flesh. It shall be interresting to read all about the Spital Fields silks. The book is pricy, but i think it is worth the money, the pictures is. It is the history of Silk. Then i got Dynasties, as some of you recomended to me. And then i got printed textiles in England from 17 something and forwards, and the same series with wowen textiles. These books will be a treassure for me, because they are packed with lovely lovely inspiration for embroidery. Just a little for those who dont know these books. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 15:11:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6KBh2q006349 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:11:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6KAgcC002031; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:10:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6KAdkm018835; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:10:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6KAZkm018765 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:10:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bebc.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.188]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E1B0347FFFB for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:10:34 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001e01c3a4a2$87fcba50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:14:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] are you responsible for X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kass, You wrote: You know, it often gets discussed on costume lists how we would love to go back in time and see how things really were. But personally I think that would end it for me. Sure, I would love to know how the Irish really made those Fram air filter hats or what medieval women used as bust support. But once I knew, it'd be over. I'd have to find another hobby. =) My luck I'd go back to 16th century Ireland and they'd all be wearing drawstring-sleeved multi-coloured léinte covered in Celtic knotwork embroidery! Nah... That wouldn't be back in time. That'd be my version of hell. Worse than Walmart between Thanksgiving and Christmas... Kass I have often thoaght about this also. I would love to go back to the 18th century, but please in the upper class. It would be a nightmare to live by the poor. And about this costume wise, i also think that if i had ben living then, i would have gotten used to see all this splendour, and perhaps i would be an ignorant in the end and wouldnt notice all those beautifull clothes, because i would be seeing them all the time. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 15:13:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6KDc2q006373 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:13:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6KCncC002368; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:12:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6KCkkm021086; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:12:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6KCgkm021002 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:12:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8913336930 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:54:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AHqCs-0005mE-00 for ; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:54:14 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century resources In-Reply-To: <3FAAA328.9070703@reddawn.net> References: <3FAA8C4E.4080108@reddawn.net> <3FAAA328.9070703@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:54:14 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > I have no idea if these are still active. I would suspect that all > except the last are dead. That was my assumption, yes. I did sign up for the renaissance tailor list, though. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 15:20:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6KKJ2q006545 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:20:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6KJNcC003185; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:19:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6KJMkm027387; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:19:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6KJHkm027246 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:19:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBF8425D0 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:24:18 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FAAAD6E.6070906@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:22:06 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Are u responsible for the voices in myhead?wasemailquestions Re: Primary? Secondary? References: <002b01c3a47e$ae21a160$436453d8@Kass> <013601c3a49f$310fa4d0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> In-Reply-To: <013601c3a49f$310fa4d0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > NOTHING is worse than WalMart between Thanksgiving and Christmas > Except maybe Joann's on the day after turkey day .... Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 15:37:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6KbI2q006802 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:37:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6KaLcC004932; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:36:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6Ka6km013068; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:36:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6Ka2km013004 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.69.84]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031106203600.CKEU1080.orval.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:36:00 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c3a4a5$72917400$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0B0675E1-0FED-11D8-9EB4-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <019101c3a436$24df2960$da604ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Arnegunde's artifacts Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:32:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a recent search for more information on Arnegunde, I found this article on the Osberg Queen. Here it is for those who may be interested. Sheridan http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Oseberg/dress/OSEBERG.HTM *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* They say that the pen is mightier than the sword, but which one would you rather be hit with? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 17:17:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6MH62q007333 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:17:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6MFTcC016422; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:15:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6MFOMw018894; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:15:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6MFJMw018791 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:15:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.69.84]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031106221518.UOAF23529.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie>; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:15:18 -0500 Message-ID: <009701c3a4b3$54f2b7c0$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:14:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 cc: SCA-GARB Subject: [h-cost] Textile Museum of Canada X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had no idea that there was a textiles musem here in Canada! Looks like I am going to have to plan a field trip to Toronto... http://www.museumfortextiles.on.ca/ Sheridan/Maiwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 17:42:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6MgZ2q007443 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:42:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6MfqcC019112; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:41:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6MfnMw013394; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:41:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6MfjMw013294 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:41:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA27369A3 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:41:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AHsow-0005xs-00 for ; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:41:42 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Textile Museum of Canada In-Reply-To: <009701c3a4b3$54f2b7c0$cb6afea9@shooie> References: <009701c3a4b3$54f2b7c0$cb6afea9@shooie> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:41:42 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sheridan wrote: > I had no idea that there was a textiles musem here in Canada! Looks like I > am going to have to plan a field trip to Toronto... > > http://www.museumfortextiles.on.ca/ I contacted them a while ago asking if they had any items from the 17th century or earlier. They said no, they mostly have later stuff. Just FYI, in case you are into medieval/renaissance textiles in particular. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 18:51:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6Npq2q008190 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:51:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6Np5cC025922; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6Np0qp014043; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA6Nowqp014002 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:50:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.123.249.35] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD9437A01E2; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:47:32 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001e01c3a4a2$87fcba50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001e01c3a4a2$87fcba50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:39:47 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] are you responsible for Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >And about this costume wise, i also think that if i had ben living then, i >would have gotten used to see all this splendour, and perhaps i would be an >ignorant in the end and wouldnt notice all those beautifull clothes, because >i would be seeing them all the time. > >Bjarne OK, so when exactly was the change over from showing your wealth in what you wear, to hiding your wealth by wearing jeans and tees???? I'm thinking it was in the late '60's that it became uncool to "dress up". Up until then, women still wore nice dresses and guy still wore suits, and people still dressed for the theatre or for dinner. It's so bad now that a friend of mine told me someone made fun of him for wearing a suit out to a nice dinner on a Friday night. Not a flashy suit, nothing crazy, just a nice dark Armani suit with a nice tie. Was it when television finally took hold? Or the Car Culture? (ever try to drive in a hoop skirt or bustle???) Did the Hippies make it happen? (I don't think so, but perhaps that movement contributed...) What was it that changed in our society that made it only ok to dress up for the Oscars?????? (and then only if you're on the red carpet). Would love to hear your theories... Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 19:06:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA706r2q008303 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:06:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA706DcC027291; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:06:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA706BIL025090; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:06:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7068IL025005 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:06:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id hA7068id016987 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:06:08 -0500 Message-Id: <200311070006.hA7068id016987@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 00:01:51 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] are you responsible for From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Rima, Not necessarily the Hippies, but I think the baby boom generation did it. Older generations are certainly taking advantage of the more casual modes of dress, but that's also cultural. I always thought it was interesting in England, I would see ladies and gentlemen over 60 wearing skirts and hose or tweed jackets, respectively. Where are their sweatsuits, like Americans of the same age wear? :-) -Carol > Was it when television finally took hold? Or the Car Culture? (ever > try to drive in a hoop skirt or bustle???) Did the Hippies make it > happen? (I don't think so, but perhaps that movement contributed...) > What was it that changed in our society that made it only ok to dress > up for the Oscars?????? (and then only if you're on the red carpet). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 19:10:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA70AI2q008463 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:10:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA709ecC027521; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:09:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA709eIL027224; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:09:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA709bIL027171 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:09:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699CE425D0 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:14:39 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FAAE36B.1040307@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 18:12:27 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] are you responsible for References: <001e01c3a4a2$87fcba50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rima wrote: > I'm thinking it was in the late '60's that it became uncool to "dress > up". Up until then, women still wore nice dresses and guy still wore > suits, and people still dressed for the theatre or for dinner. I wouldn't be surprised if the bicentennial in 1976 got a lot of people reading "All men are created equal..." and looking at casual dress as one of those equalizers. When did 'casual Friday' make its entrance into the workplace? Mid 1980's? That would be about when the children born in the 60's to parents who thought suits were 'uncool' would start to enter the workforce. Interesting topic for thought. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 19:50:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA70oI2q008989 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:50:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA70nYcC000476; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:49:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA70nVIL024913; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:49:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA70nSIL024887 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:49:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.123.249.35] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB4A64B0224; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:46:02 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FAAE36B.1040307@reddawn.net> References: <001e01c3a4a2$87fcba50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3FAAE36B.1040307@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:43:04 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] are you responsible for Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Rima wrote: > > > I'm thinking it was in the late '60's that it became uncool to "dress >>up". Up until then, women still wore nice dresses and guy still >>wore suits, and people still dressed for the theatre or for dinner. > >I wouldn't be surprised if the bicentennial in 1976 got a lot of >people reading "All men are created equal..." and looking at casual >dress as one of those equalizers. When did 'casual Friday' make its >entrance into the workplace? Hmmmmmmmmm another good point. I think 1970 was the first year a girl could wear pants to Middle School in Los Angeles.... > Mid 1980's? That would be about when the children born in the 60's >to parents who thought suits were 'uncool' would start to enter the >workforce. could be.... >Interesting topic for thought. > >Dawn Would be fun to read a book about it around about the year 2250..... Rima eat right, exercise.... maybe I could make it..... or not...... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 19:50:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA70oe2q008999 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:50:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA70o4cC000547; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:50:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA70o2IL025242; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA70nQIL024873 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:49:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.123.249.35] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB4864B0224; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:46:00 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200311070006.hA7068id016987@jefferson.patriot.net> References: <200311070006.hA7068id016987@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:41:00 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] are you responsible for Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Hi Rima, > > Not necessarily the Hippies, but I think the baby boom >generation did it. >Older generations are certainly taking advantage of the more casual modes of >dress, but that's also cultural. I always thought it was interesting in >England, I would see ladies and gentlemen over 60 wearing skirts and hose or >tweed jackets, respectively. Where are their sweatsuits, like >Americans of the >same age wear? :-) > > -Carol Good point. The English, with their strong traditions, have held on to "Dressing" a lot longer than us wayward Yanks. ;-D Same thing some places in the south. And in the Black community, where they still dress for church. I always LOVE to see the after-church crowd go out for brunch on Sunday. They always look FABULOUS! Without them, there would not be a single hat in America that wasn't a baseball cap. ;-/ Theories anyone???? Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 19:53:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA70rS2q009032 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:53:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA70qhcC000734; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:52:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA70qcIL027058; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:52:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA70qXIL026974 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:52:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-65-29-25-96.mn.rr.com [65.29.25.96]) hA70qThM000158 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:52:30 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20031106185400.01f5a230@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 18:57:17 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Textile Museum of Canada In-Reply-To: <009701c3a4b3$54f2b7c0$cb6afea9@shooie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:14 PM 11/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I had no idea that there was a textiles musem here in Canada! Looks like I >am going to have to plan a field trip to Toronto... > > http://www.museumfortextiles.on.ca/ > >Sheridan/Maiwen It is an interesting place. I used to live in Toronto and have been there multiple times. They are absolutely tiny, located next to a hotel in downtown Toronto. Most of their stuff on display is from current textile artists or a particular "ethnic" style/type. There is almost no historical clothing or accessories on display. Other museums have much better clothing collections, especially the one in Manitoba whose name escapes me at the moment. However, they do have a pretty good library of textile books you can go in and use. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 20:48:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA71mm2q009917 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:48:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA71m2cC003959; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA71m0CS028327; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA71lwCS028300 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:47:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AHvjB-0006WL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:47:57 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:48:00 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c3a4d1$2d1273d0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hA71lwCS028300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I thought the same thing when I read Robin's earlier comment about a group of people looking typically American because they were of varying physical types. Even ignoring Commonwealth immigration, we British are a pretty mixed lot. My mother (born 1912) has a fair complexion and her hair used to be auburn; her sister is very dark, and their brother started with fair hair which turned brown later. She told me recently that their three cousins had the same three colourings. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby [Sg] Thanks for sharing that...it struck me as a little odd too. Anyone who has spent some time in Europe knows that it is pretty mixed. Even in the 70's living in Germany there were considerable variations in folks living there. (I remember a very dark African complete with facial tattoos approaching me in Hamburg and saying how beautiful I was....I was thirteen and scared to death! I have often been mistaken for being mulatto [in spite of extremely pale skin and very Aryan features-except for my nose]) I mean after all Europe is a lot closer to Africa and the middle east! Now Iceland and Greenland might be a different story! What I do remember very clearly is that we were easily identifiable as American because of the way we dressed. Used to be that I could pick out European tourists here by the way they dressed and did their hair. Now with the way kids are dressing and doing their hair I am often mistaken. Sg Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 20:52:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA71qL2q009930 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:52:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA71pScC004166; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:51:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA71pQCS000309; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:51:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA71pNCS000197 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:51:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C73701B2850 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:50:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 14805-07 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:50:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A2AF31B2678 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:50:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <05fc01c3a4d1$6128cd90$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001e01c3a4a2$87fcba50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3FAAE36B.1040307@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] are you responsible for Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:49:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- > >I wouldn't be surprised if the bicentennial in 1976 got a lot of > >people reading "All men are created equal..." and looking at casual > >dress as one of those equalizers. When did 'casual Friday' make its > >entrance into the workplace? I know that, as an engineer at Ford Motor Co, my dad dressed "business casuaL' the last few years before he retired. But I remember watching him get ready for work when he wore suits every day, and I admired him so. He's a handsome man anyway, and he had this stunning long wool overcoat--I was so proud of my handsome, well dressed daddy! My husband is a dj, and dresses very casually for work. But when he is doing a wedding or party, and dresses up..well, there are few things more attractive than a man in a good suit! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 21:03:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA723a2q010238 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:03:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA722acC004837; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:02:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA722Xfg006341; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:02:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA722Ufg006307 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:02:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.123.249.35] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC6831801CC; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:59:04 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000d01c3a4d1$2d1273d0$6501a8c0@SG01> References: <000d01c3a4d1$2d1273d0$6501a8c0@SG01> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:05:48 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Typing people by background, clothes, and stuff... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What I do remember very clearly >is that we were easily identifiable as American because of the way we >dressed. My friends in Europe tell me that the shoes are a dead give-away. As soon as they see Nikes they know where you're from. ;-D Which explains why my hubby and I usually fool them. All his shoes are made in England, and most of mine (that aren't hand made by people like you guys) from Germany. But I speak French and a little Italian. We're very confusing. ;-D >Used to be that I could pick out European tourists here by the way >they dressed and did their hair. Now with the way kids are dressing and >doing their hair I am often mistaken. Ah, but the dead give-away for THEM is that, although their tees and jeans have English written all over them, most of the time it's wrong, doesn't make sense (or only makes sense to them).... especially true in Italy, where we saw kids wearing stuff that was hilarious! Still musing on the other thing.... So, is our penchant for "plain" jeans and tees anything like the Puritan backlash ( but obviously inspired by different motives) ? I mean, going from tight waists and floofy crinolines in the 50's and early 60's, to wild and crazy Hippie stuff in the 60-70's.... Did we, as a culture, say "enough!"??? Could we not deal with expressing ourselves that much? But then again, how much expression could someone in Elizabeth's court have, after all? She still had to wear her underpinnings, gown, and all... the same silhouette as every other lady there. She couldn't show up in a kirtle and sideless gown, now could she??? Maybe that's why Shakespeare wrote so many cross-dressing roles - it was the only way the ladies could (in theory only, of course, since the guys were playing the roles anyway) get out of their corsets. Rima so many questions..... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 21:04:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA72492q010241 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:04:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA723VcC004883; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:03:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA723Ufg006867; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:03:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA723Sfg006833 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:03:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.123.249.35] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ACA2E1E016E; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 18:00:02 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <05fc01c3a4d1$6128cd90$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> References: <001e01c3a4a2$87fcba50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3FAAE36B.1040307@reddawn.net> <05fc01c3a4d1$6128cd90$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:06:43 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] are you responsible for Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >My husband is a dj, and dresses very casually for work. But when he is doing >a wedding or party, and dresses up..well, there are few things more >attractive than a man in a good suit! > >Dianne AMEN! Tuxedoes and kilts improve EVERY man. Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 21:13:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA72Dg2q010253 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:13:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA72CkcC005443; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:12:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA72Cjfg011703; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:12:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA72Cgfh011684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:12:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA72DUOS030470 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:13:31 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA72DUim030468 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:13:30 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] are you responsible for Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:13:30 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <001e01c3a4a2$87fcba50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3FAAE36B.1040307@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3FAAE36B.1040307@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311062113.30428.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 06 November 2003 07:12 pm, Dawn wrote: [snip] > When did 'casual Friday' make its entrance into > the workplace? Mid 1980's? That would be about when the children born in > the 60's to parents who thought suits were 'uncool' would start to enter > the workforce. Not in Philadelphia law firms, it didn't. Not that early. I was in the workplace by mid-1985, and there was no such thing as casual Friday in the law firm culture then. A few maverick firms started doing the casual Friday thing around 1993 or 1994. At that point, we adopted a system whereby you could wear casual dress on Fridays, but only if you paid an agreed-upon amount to the firm (the amount varied according to whether you were a partner. associate, or support staff). At the end of the year, the firm gave the amount collected to charity. At the beginning of the dot.boom, a huge Philadelphia firm called Morgan, Lewis & Bockius adopted a "casual day most of the time" policy, and literally within days, most of the law firms in Philadelphia, including mine, had followed suit. Some of those firms switched back to business dress after the bust, but we've kept the business casual policy. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 22:20:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA73K32q010921 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:20:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA73JCcC009050; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:19:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA73J9Nu014371; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:19:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA73J6Nu014354 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:19:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-40-166.jps.net ([209.165.40.166] helo=pavilion) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AHx9M-0002VP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:19:05 -0800 Message-ID: <002101c3a4de$93aeb060$a628a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002301c3a478$32d00430$436453d8@Kass> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:23:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Psychic Archaeology - OT - Are u responsible for the voices in my head? wasemailquestions Re: Primary? Secondary? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Lisa said > < anthropology/history > that says you can go back in time to see any moment in history and view > what > transpired. I must ask one of these people about those iron corsets and > their true use!>> > Kass wrote Lisa, now you just HAVE to elaborate on that one! > Psychic Archaeology is the proper term, sorry. I only heard about it because I flipped through the book "Psychic Archaeology : Time Machine to the Past - Goodman, Jeffrey" some time ago at the book store. Didn't buy it. Wouldn't buy it............although what I glanced at COULD possibly happen in my view of the world, but because ......... well, I've had quite a few prophetic dreams in my life, not that I can tell the future, but I often have the experience of running into something I had previously dreamt about. Another way to say this is, I can match up events in my life with dreams that I've had, not that I can tell the future from my dreams. This experience is compatible with the theory that there is no time or space and we all share the same consciousness. Now in terms of psychic archaeology, I could very well have a dream about the way wheel farthingales were constructed and where the bents were used, but because there is no time or space, I wouldn't really know if I was dreaming about the past as it was, or some reenactor's faulty theory that I had yet to run into in the future because in the psychic world there is no time or space and people blur into one another. The author did not address this issue from my quick glance at the book so I found it quite lacking. For those still interested in reading further - Marc Carlson might find this interesting as it involves his web site on shoemaking......On January 2, 1996 I had a very lengthy dream with a very peaceful quality about it.....the following is a part of the dream. "I returned to my home which was a magnificent palace. The main room when I returned no longer had lino flooring but was of beautiful polished wood, the room was filled with light, with beautiful gauze curtains that draped around the lead crystal windows that were now topped with arched or domed windows. There may have been some upholstered sofas and floor rugs too but mostly there was light and space. I was aware that this would be very expensive to maintain and that I would need to rent out part of the palace for income. In the left wing I saw a flash of a room that was had a pool table in it. There were also some Xmas type lights. At first I thought it might relate to the casino, but then I understood it was the "game room" ........ I then was aware of another room ...............The room was small, but not too small. It was of light wood flooring and light wood paneling. There was a oak or similar wood chest of drawers with probably four drawers and probably simple brass handles. On top of this chest of drawers was a sign like a piece of fine linen or cotton paper, folded in half and placed on the top like a name tag but of different proportions. I remember being aware of the dresser and the card. The card probably gave some instructions as to what occurred in this room. There were no chairs. I then became aware of a man with Dr.Spelta's coloring. Then I became aware of a white negative relief impression of a face made of either plaster of Paris or paper machie or paper pulp. I wasn't quite sure what the purpose of these things were but I was aware it was for a business of some sort. That this was a space I rented out to a business so I could maintain the palace. The man understood that I did not understand what went on here. He gently explained that what he did here was or what the business was was a place where people could come who wanted to increase their contact with other people, it served as a bit of a dating agency, sort of. What happened was people would come there and stick there face into a block of white stuff which was malleable and an impression of their face would be made in the white plaster. When dried the impression would be photo copied and sent off to people (men) who might be interested in meeting the person who did the impression. I thought about this and couldn't work out how the impression could be placed on a photo copier and a copy of it be produced. Also, I was aware that it was a c copy of the impression or mask that was being sent out. The impression wasn't used to make a copy of the face to be sent out." What eventually happened, was in May or June of 1998 I joined a living history group that met in the Old Queensland Museum which looks like a palace. In order to pay for the rent of their meeting space, one of their performances was at the Treasury casino. In order for me to perform at the Treasury casino show, I had to make my outfit which included a pair of shoe. Robert Hook, who has the same first name as Dr. Robert Spelta gave me a piece of paper with his home page on it, his home page name was rhook.homepage or something similar, it had his name on it......and his web page had a link to Marc Carlson's web site which contained instructions as to how to make shoes. I made them in my bedroom which had dressers but no chairs. I left the piece of paper with the website address on my dresser. I believe somewhere on Mark's web page, there is a line that says, don't just photocopy and enlarge these patterns and expect them to fit. I also made a plaster of paris last out of an old shoe, but first I had to use masking tape to cover the holes. I also met a man there who said he, as an art exercise, had friends poke their faces into something and then he made plaster masks from the impressions. This person was also transgendered, so in order for the guys in the group to like him/her and not get rejected, he pretty much passed out photocopies of the mask he psychologically wore, he did not let people see his real face or let them know he really identified as being a woman. So with this and similar experiences I view "psychic" archaeology and time travel, as possibilities but know claims are also often fraudulent. The study of consciousness is the new frontier so maybe in the future there will be a more rigorous examination of what some of us to truly experience and some of the scammers will be weeded out and we might learn a bit more about the world we live in. Don't know about the past, but I wouldn't mind just a peek every once and awhile. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 6 22:28:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA73S42q011052 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:28:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA73RNcC009559; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:27:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA73RMNu018298; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:27:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA73RINu018274 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:27:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-40-166.jps.net ([209.165.40.166] helo=pavilion) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AHxHH-0005FT-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:27:15 -0800 Message-ID: <003601c3a4df$b79ba900$a628a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Lisa Sinervo" , "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:32:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Psychic Archaeology - OT - Are u responsible for the voices in my head? wasemailquestions Re: Primary? Secondary? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Forgot the links. http://www.occultopedia.com/p/psychic_archaeology.htm http://www.occultopedia.com/p/psychic_archaeology.htm and here's the old queensland museum, looks like a palace with arched windows http://www.qyoc.org.au/museum.htm In case anyone is wondering, no I can't read tarot cards, palms, nor do I have any psychic abilities on tap, but I do now about the symbolic logic of dreams. Sometimes what I dream shows up in a book or a movie instead of real life which isn't real great for prophetic accuracy! A career in psychic archaeology is not an option for me! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:23 PM Subject: Psychic Archaeology - OT - Are u responsible for the voices in my head? wasemailquestions Re: Primary? Secondary? > > > Lisa said > > < > anthropology/history > > that says you can go back in time to see any moment in history and view > > what > > transpired. I must ask one of these people about those iron corsets and > > their true use!>> > > > Kass wrote Lisa, now you just HAVE to elaborate on that one! > > > > Psychic Archaeology is the proper term, sorry. I only heard about it > because I flipped through the book "Psychic Archaeology : Time Machine to > the Past - Goodman, Jeffrey" some time ago at the book store. Didn't buy > it. Wouldn't buy it............although what I glanced at COULD possibly > happen in my view of the world, but because ......... well, I've had quite a > few prophetic dreams in my life, not that I can tell the future, but I often > have the experience of running into something I had previously dreamt about. > Another way to say this is, I can match up events in my life with dreams > that I've had, not that I can tell the future from my dreams. This > experience is compatible with the theory that there is no time or space and > we all share the same consciousness. Now in terms of psychic archaeology, I > could very well have a dream about the way wheel farthingales were > constructed and where the bents were used, but because there is no time or > space, I wouldn't really know if I was dreaming about the past as it was, or > some reenactor's faulty theory that I had yet to run into in the future > because in the psychic world there is no time or space and people blur into > one another. The author did not address this issue from my quick glance at > the book so I found it quite lacking. > > For those still interested in reading further - Marc Carlson might find this > interesting as it involves his web site on shoemaking......On January 2, > 1996 I had a very lengthy dream with a very peaceful quality about > it.....the following is a part of the dream. > > "I returned to my home which was a magnificent palace. The main room when I > returned no longer had lino flooring but was of beautiful polished wood, the > room was filled with light, with beautiful gauze curtains that draped around > the lead crystal windows that were now topped with arched or domed windows. > There may have been some upholstered sofas and floor rugs too but mostly > there was light and space. > > I was aware that this would be very expensive to maintain and that I would > need to rent out part of the palace for income. In the left wing I saw a > flash of a room that was had a pool table in it. There were also some Xmas > type lights. At first I thought it might relate to the casino, but then I > understood it was the "game room" ........ > > I then was aware of another room ...............The room was small, but not > too small. It was of light wood flooring and light wood paneling. There > was a oak or similar wood chest of drawers with probably four drawers and > probably simple brass handles. On top of this chest of drawers was a sign > like a piece of fine linen or cotton paper, folded in half and placed on the > top like a name tag but of different proportions. > > I remember being aware of the dresser and the card. The card probably gave > some instructions as to what occurred in this room. There were no chairs. > I then became aware of a man with Dr.Spelta's coloring. Then I became aware > of a white negative relief impression of a face made of either plaster of > Paris or paper machie or paper pulp. > > I wasn't quite sure what the purpose of these things were but I was aware it > was for a business of some sort. That this was a space I rented out to a > business so I could maintain the palace. > > The man understood that I did not understand what went on here. He gently > explained that what he did here was or what the business was was a place > where people could come who wanted to increase their contact with other > people, it served as a bit of a dating agency, sort of. What happened was > people would come there and stick there face into a block of white stuff > which was malleable and an impression of their face would be made in the > white plaster. When dried the impression would be photo copied and sent off > to people (men) who might be interested in meeting the person who did the > impression. > > I thought about this and couldn't work out how the impression could be > placed on a photo copier and a copy of it be produced. Also, I was aware > that it was a c copy of the impression or mask that was being sent out. The > impression wasn't used to make a copy of the face to be sent out." > > What eventually happened, was in May or June of 1998 I joined a living > history group that met in the Old Queensland Museum which looks like a > palace. In order to pay for the rent of their meeting space, one of their > performances was at the Treasury casino. In order for me to perform at the > Treasury casino show, I had to make my outfit which included a pair of shoe. > Robert Hook, who has the same first name as Dr. Robert Spelta gave me a > piece of paper with his home page on it, his home page name was > rhook.homepage or something similar, it had his name on it......and his web > page had a link to Marc Carlson's web site which contained instructions as > to how to make shoes. I made them in my bedroom which had dressers but no > chairs. I left the piece of paper with the website address on my dresser. > I believe somewhere on Mark's web page, there is a line that says, don't > just photocopy and enlarge these patterns and expect them to fit. I also > made a plaster of paris last out of an old shoe, but first I had to use > masking tape to cover the holes. > > I also met a man there who said he, as an art exercise, had friends poke > their faces into something and then he made plaster masks from the > impressions. This person was also transgendered, so in order for the guys > in the group to like him/her and not get rejected, he pretty much passed out > photocopies of the mask he psychologically wore, he did not let people see > his real face or let them know he really identified as being a woman. > > So with this and similar experiences I view "psychic" archaeology and time > travel, as possibilities but know claims are also often fraudulent. The > study of consciousness is the new frontier so maybe in the future there will > be a more rigorous examination of what some of us to truly experience and > some of the scammers will be weeded out and we might learn a bit more about > the world we live in. Don't know about the past, but I wouldn't mind just a > peek every once and awhile. > > Lisa Sinervo > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 01:14:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA76Ev2q012614 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:14:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA76EEcC020055; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 23:14:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA76EBLA015631; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 23:14:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA76E8LA015605 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 23:14:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24100 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:38:22 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:38:22 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) In-Reply-To: <000d01c3a4d1$2d1273d0$6501a8c0@SG01> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > I thought the same thing when I read Robin's earlier comment about a > group of people looking typically American because they were of > varying physical types. I was just reporting what was said on a thread here on h-cost, by several of the European observers of a series of portraits taken at an American SCA event. I don't think anyone was saying that all people from a given European country looked alike, but rather that there was a more noticeable (to them) range of difference in the collection of Americans they saw. (I wouldn't be surprised if an average group of American re-enactors includes people with Asian, black, Middle Eastern, Native American, and hispanic features as well as various European types, and more unusual combinations of coloring and features, not just the sort of range of hair color and complexion that the previous poster gave as an example.) I wasn't the one making the observations, but they made sense to me. The other observation that the Europeans made, if I recall correctly, was that the American group had a much larger proportion of overweight people than they saw in their European groups. This sparked an interesting thread too, but that's a topic we've delved into several times on this list in the past. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 04:27:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA79RN2q001125 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 04:27:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA79P2dK027970; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 02:26:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA79JcWp010542; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 02:19:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA79JYWp010530 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 02:19:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hA79KwA26966.; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:20:58 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 09:19:32 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 09:19:24 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, Saragrace was quoting me. I did say "ignoring Commonwealth immigration" - we have all these physical types (except Native American) here too nowadays, though it's true I don't see many people from ethnic minorities involved in reenactment. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> robin@shell.nightowl.net 11/07/03 07:38am >>> >On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: >> I thought the same thing when I read Robin's earlier comment about a >> group of people looking typically American because they were of >> varying physical types. [snip] >I don't think anyone was saying that all people from a given European >country looked alike, but rather that there was a more noticeable (to >them) range of difference in the collection of Americans they saw. (I >wouldn't be surprised if an average group of American re-enactors includes >people with Asian, black, Middle Eastern, Native American, and hispanic >features as well as various European types, and more unusual >combinations of coloring and features, not just the sort of range of hair >color and complexion that the previous poster gave as an example.) I >wasn't the one making the observations, but they made sense to me. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 05:57:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7Av92q022545 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:57:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7AuQcC001944; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 03:56:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7AuMW4018416; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 03:56:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7AuIW4018375 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 03:56:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hA7AwGe26444 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 02:58:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 02:58:16 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200311071058.hA7AwGe26444@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] are you responsible for X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > [snip] > > When did 'casual Friday' make its entrance into > > the workplace? Mid 1980's? That would be about when the children born in > > the 60's to parents who thought suits were 'uncool' would start to enter > > the workforce. > > Not in Philadelphia law firms, it didn't. Not that early. > > I was in the workplace by mid-1985, and there was no such thing as casual > Friday in the law firm culture then. You can thank the computer industry for 'casual Friday,' I think. I remember that by 1986-87, the "Friday Beer Bash" was already becoming common. I first saw that at Apple Computer, but other companies started following suit. [...] > At the beginning of the dot.boom, a huge Philadelphia firm called Morgan, > Lewis & Bockius adopted a "casual day most of the time" policy, and literally > within days, most of the law firms in Philadelphia, including mine, had > followed suit. Then again, at Apple, it was de rigeur to wear your project tshirt. Every project group had their own shirts made up, usually with the "top secret" code name for their latest piece of hardware or software. That was late 80s. Even Apple's gone through a couple culture changes since then. > Some of those firms switched back to business dress after the bust, but we've > kept the business casual policy. Computer companies that have survived the dotbomb have gotten much less lenient about dress codes. Though Intel (where I heard the most complaints) has always been on the conservative side of the industry. I dunno, I always thought the cookie cutter "casual" look of blue oxford shirt, kakhis, and either white leather sneakers or brown topsiders was pretty lame myself. It still suffered from the problem of many people not having any creativity in dress. So when they ditched the suits, they just picked another uniform. Even when I wore a suit (I'm female, wearing a 3-piece suit was unusual), I tried to make it look interesting. Silk vests and ties, dress shoes and boots that weren't the two or three styles that everyone else wore, shirts that had embroidered details. It wasn't really all that hard to find any of those things, I just had to actually *think* about how the outfits would look. But now I'm disabled, and I no longer even present papers at technical conferences, so I have no reason to wear a suit. My husband stole my spiffy ties a couple years ago, so at least those are still being worn. I'm now practicing to be a batty auntie, like in "Practical Magic." ;} Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 07:22:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7CMa2q022743 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:22:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CLscC005932; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:21:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CLp1c029095; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:21:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CLl1c029079 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:21:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.115]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:20:52 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Psychic Archaeology - OT - Are u responsible for the voices in myhead? wasemailquestions Re: Primary? Secondary? Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:21:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c3a529$bb80d2d0$7348ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <002101c3a4de$93aeb060$a628a5d1@pavilion> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa ended with: <> Thanks for explaining, Lisa. I don't know much about psychology, but doesn't this all fit in with Jung's theory of the collective unconscious? That would explain where you saw all the symbols in your dream. I had an X who didn't believe in psychic ability at all. But he kept having dreams that came true. I know they weren't hoaxes because he'd tell me about the dreams and then years later, I'd watch them happen. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 07:30:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7CU62q022756 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:30:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CTOcC006199; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:29:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CTN1c002417; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:29:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CTJ1c002385 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:29:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.115]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:28:24 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:29:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c3a52a$c8dea5f0$7348ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate wrote: <> There was just an article in a local magazine here in Easton, Pennsylvania regarding minorities in reenactment. It was called "History in Black and White." The author attended four Civil War reenactments in the PA region and decided to write an inflammatory article on the subject without interviewing any of the reenactors or expanding her personal experience beyond four events. Her beef was that there was only one African-American family at the Battle of Gettysburg reenactment last year. I wrote a rebuttal asking how many black families were at the real Battle of Gettysburg -- and how many Irish, Italian, Jewish, Russian, Asian, German, etc. -- and how many reenactors were there compared to people at the real event. With only a passing glance at our hobby, she was accusing reenactment of being racist and we were furious! Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 07:32:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7CWM2q022763 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:32:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CVtcC006312; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:31:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CVr1c003571; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CVn1d003524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:31:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA7CV7PX024879 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:31:07 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 07:31:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FAB90E8.501@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 07:32:40 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Casual 90s was: are you responsible for References: <200311071058.hA7AwGe26444@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200311071058.hA7AwGe26444@gw.retro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > I dunno, I always thought the cookie cutter "casual" look of blue oxford > shirt, kakhis, and either white leather sneakers or brown topsiders was > pretty lame myself. Where I worked in the 90s (computer company in CA) this might be something you wore on formal days, maybe to see a potential client. There certainly wasn't any uniformity, though. Fridays, you could wear T-shirts, sweats, almost anything except for shorts (male or female.) My husband worked at Netscape in its golden years, and just about anything was ok. Now he wears button down shirts, slacks, and dress shoes to work. But he's maintained his luxurious ponytail. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Bad SF crossover ideas: McCoy: It's Thread, Jim! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 07:42:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7CgE2q022796 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:42:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CfacC006774; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:41:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CfZ1c008146; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:41:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CfW1c008114 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:41:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.115]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:40:37 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] new books for my library Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:41:39 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01c3a52c$7e0f6cb0$7348ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <001801c3a4a1$d300f0d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: <> Bjarne, could you share the full information on the book "Dynasties" again? I know I wrote it down the first time it was mentioned, but I'm misplaced it. Thanks. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 07:54:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7CsD2q022817 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:54:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CracC007448; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:53:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CrW1c013750; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:53:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7CrT1c013712 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:53:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([209.204.72.115]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:52:34 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] are you responsible for Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:53:36 -0500 Message-ID: <001401c3a52e$29445a90$7348ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good point. The English, with their strong traditions, have held on to "Dressing" a lot longer than us wayward Yanks. ;-D Same thing some places in the south. And in the Black community, where they still dress for church. I always LOVE to see the after-church crowd go out for brunch on Sunday. They always look FABULOUS! Without them, there would not be a single hat in America that wasn't a baseball cap. ;-/ >>>> There's a wonderful photo book of Black women wearing their "Sunday hats" called "Crowning Glory" or something similar. It's a great book! Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 09:17:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7EH32q022975 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:17:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7EGKcC012168; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:16:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7EGITk023105; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:16:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14003.mail.yahoo.com (web14003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA7EGFTk023075 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:16:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031107141615.35952.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:16:15 GMT Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:16:15 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] what would you suggest? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We have a new person who is interested in making a 16th c Spanish outfit. What sources should we suggest for her? What portraits would be good for her to look at. ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 09:32:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7EWC2q023005 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:32:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7EVacC012949; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:31:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7EVZTk001528; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:31:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7EVWTk001446 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:31:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 08:31:27 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 08:31:17 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Casual Fridays X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > When did 'casual Friday' make its entrance into > the workplace? Mid 1980's? That would be about when the children born in > the 60's to parents who thought suits were 'uncool' would start to enter > the workforce. I worked for Vanity Fair/Lee Jeans (one of the big 3 American jeans manufacturors) in the 1980's. We couldn't wear jeans to work until later in the 80's, and that really started when a new company president decreed since we were a maker of jeans we should be wearing them so everyday was to be business casual, altho it took several memos to really define his idea of business casual :). I never really got over seeing our execs in polo shirts and casual pants, and several of them were heard lamenting how they had to get an almost completely new wardrobe to be able to go 'casual' every day of the week. That pres only lasted a year but, fortunately, some of the casual attitude remained and we ended up with casual fridays. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 09:56:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7EuQ2q023092 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:56:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7Et1cK014512; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:55:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7EmPTk010441; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA7EmMTk010406 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:48:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 95020 invoked by uid 1005); 7 Nov 2003 14:48:16 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 2.358849 secs); 07 Nov 2003 14:48:16 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 2.358849 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2003 14:48:13 -0000 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:48:15 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] what would you suggest? In-Reply-To: <20031107141615.35952.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20031107093921.N32291-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I recommend Hispanic Costume 1480-1520 by Ruth Anderson. Best book out there on Spanish dress in the early 16th century, in English. Also, Alcega's Tailor's Pattern Book: his patterns are all Spanish. Drea On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, [iso-8859-1] Catalina Sanabria Rosado wrote: > We have a new person who is interested in making a > 16th c Spanish outfit. What sources should we suggest > for her? > > What portraits would be good for her to look at. > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 09:59:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7Ex02q023106 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:59:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7Ew1cC014743; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7Ew0A9015805; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.bee.net (smtp2.bee.net [63.74.90.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7EvQA9015431 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:57:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kass ([216.83.100.87]) by smtp2.bee.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52106U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:56:30 -0500 From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Casual Fridays Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:57:32 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c3a53f$7a1a1c00$7348ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > When did 'casual Friday' make its entrance into > the workplace? Mid 1980's? That would be about when the children born in > the 60's to parents who thought suits were 'uncool' would start to enter > the workforce. I entered the workforce in 1989. Right out of college and into a NYC brokerage firm. Everyone I worked with wore suits to work every day. Even though these were the same sweaty guys who spent their days screaming on two different phones at the same time, they didn't so much as loosen their ties. The only concession they made was to take off their jackets when they sat down. But as soon as they walked away from the board, they put them back on. In the intervening years, I worked for a couple of dot.coms. I have to admit that although I liked the idea of not having to dress up every day, it made me "sloppy" in my work habits as well as my attire. And I will never think wearing sneakers or flip-flops to work is acceptable under any circumstances. I work from home now where I can sit cross-legged at my computer in my pajamas all day -- and I HATE it. I relish the thought of having to do my hair, put on some makeup, and dress for the world. When casual dress became acceptable everywhere, even in establishments of "fine dining", I think we lost something very special. It wasn't about class differences (my coal-mining grandfathers wore "suits" every day to the mines!). It was about respect. When I wear a suit to a business meeting, it says to my client "I think you're important enough to dress up for." It shows I respect them. It also establishes a bit of formal distance. They are my clients; not my bosom buddies. That is an important distinction. You shouldn't operate casually in business situations. Like most people on this list, I'm sure, I believe that clothing communicates a very strong message that no verbal communication can override. I'm hoping for an "anti-casual backlash" (like the anti-SUV backlash proposed by the new Mini Cooper). =) Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 10:24:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7FON2q023785 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:24:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FMicC016578; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:22:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FMbA9001279; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:22:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9403.mail.yahoo.com (web9403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA7FMXA9001212 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:22:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031107152233.44480.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.78.208.121] by web9403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 07:22:33 PST Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:22:33 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] what would you suggest? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031107141615.35952.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also have her check out the book on Sofonisba Anguissola, by Ilya Sandra Perlingieri; Sofonisba was a remarkable woman from Italy who became court painter to Phillip II of Spain's 3rd wife, Isabel of Valois. Also look at the works of Alonso Sanchez Coello, another painter of the period. Albra Catalina Sanabria Rosado wrote: We have a new person who is interested in making a 16th c Spanish outfit. What sources should we suggest for her? What portraits would be good for her to look at. ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 10:36:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7FaI2q024209 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:36:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FZZcC017743; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:35:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FZYA9010510; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:35:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FZVA9010464 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:35:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-57-147.jps.net ([209.165.57.147] helo=pavilion) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AI8e2-0000Bq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 07:35:31 -0800 Message-ID: <002201c3a545$8323e500$9339a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c3a529$bb80d2d0$7348ccd1@Kass> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Psychic Archaeology - OT - Are u responsible for thevoices in myhead? wasemailquestions Re: Primary? Secondary? Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:40:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, it's very much within Jung collective unconscious theory. I do believe all the thoughts of 16th century tailors are out there somewhere just near impossible to get to. But I also agree that knowing everything about the past would spoil the fun of trying to figure out the puzzle. It's nice that life is full of mysteries and that's the way it should be! Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kass McGann" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 4:21 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Psychic Archaeology - OT - Are u responsible for thevoices in myhead? wasemailquestions Re: Primary? Secondary? > Lisa ended with: > < time > travel, as possibilities but know claims are also often fraudulent. The > study of consciousness is the new frontier so maybe in the future there > will > be a more rigorous examination of what some of us to truly experience > and > some of the scammers will be weeded out and we might learn a bit more > about > the world we live in. Don't know about the past, but I wouldn't mind > just a > peek every once and awhile.>> > > Thanks for explaining, Lisa. I don't know much about psychology, but > doesn't this all fit in with Jung's theory of the collective > unconscious? That would explain where you saw all the symbols in your > dream. > > I had an X who didn't believe in psychic ability at all. But he kept > having dreams that came true. I know they weren't hoaxes because he'd > tell me about the dreams and then years later, I'd watch them happen. > > Kass > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 10:38:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7Fc92q024234 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:38:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FbScC017886; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:37:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FbSA9011932; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:37:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FbPA9011887 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:37:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.68.228]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031107153723.JWMJ23529.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:37:23 -0500 Message-ID: <002301c3a544$e79a15a0$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000901c3a52a$c8dea5f0$7348ccd1@Kass> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:36:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > There was just an article in a local magazine here in Easton, > Pennsylvania regarding minorities in reenactment. It was called > "History in Black and White." The author attended four Civil War > reenactments in the PA region and decided to write an inflammatory > article on the subject without interviewing any of the reenactors or > expanding her personal experience beyond four events. > Kass I witnessed something similar a few years ago at an SCA event, the local group was having a big Anniversary event, and someone had notified all the hometown press. We survived the press, steering the photographer away from the folks in sunglasses and cell phones, but the one girl who showed up from the university paper was another thing again. She had apparently decided before she had even seen what we do that the whole organization was sexist and designed to keep women trapped in a male dominated blah blah blah. Fortunately at that time we had almost as many women involved in combat as men, and our designated PR person introduced her to each and every one of us. We were enjoying the look of confusion on her face, here we were, poor hapless helpless dominated females, no wait she is a Bio Geneticist for a living? What about the one in the corsets, out moded fashion designed by male... oh, thats the Civic Engineer. Aha! That poor girl over there sitting and waiting on her husband... oh she usually fights but she's sick today. Never mind. The girl ended up spending the entire day with us, we dressed her up, fed her feast and she got roaring drunk after the event at our post revel. She never did write her article. Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 10:38:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7Fcb2q024240 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:38:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FbtcC017939; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:37:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FbsA9012249; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:37:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FbqA9012221 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:37:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from kc.rr.com (CPE-65-28-73-36.kc.rr.com [65.28.73.36]) hA7Fbox5001153 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:37:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3FABBD92.3090002@kc.rr.com> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 09:43:14 -0600 From: A Fairburn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] are you responsible for References: <001e01c3a4a2$87fcba50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3FAAE36B.1040307@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3FAAE36B.1040307@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Looking around in Google, it seems that the start of casual Friday was more mid 90's and perhaps tied to the start of the dot coms. I stopped work in 1990 to raise a family and I remember talk after that about casual Friday. In 1990, I think women were just moving from the male-style suits into more feminine tailoring. However, I was an engineer, and a symbol of the engineers was jeans to distinguish us from the suits. The times we dressed in suits was for presentations. For once it seems that engineers and techies were fashion leaders. Ann Dawn wrote: > Rima wrote: > > > I'm thinking it was in the late '60's that it became uncool to "dress > >> up". Up until then, women still wore nice dresses and guy still >> wore suits, and people still dressed for the theatre or for dinner. > > > I wouldn't be surprised if the bicentennial in 1976 got a lot of > people reading "All men are created equal..." and looking at casual > dress as one of those equalizers. When did 'casual Friday' make its > entrance into the workplace? Mid 1980's? That would be about when the > children born in the 60's to parents who thought suits were 'uncool' > would start to enter the workforce. > > Interesting topic for thought. > > > > Dawn > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 10:45:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7FjZ2q024421 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:45:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FitcC018600; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:44:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FisA9017718; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:44:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from providenceday.org (treebeard.providenceday.org [66.193.73.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7FinA9017622 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:44:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.193.73.85] (HELO providenceday.org) by providenceday.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.5) with ESMTP id 801327 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 10:44:53 -0500 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:46:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] what would you suggest? Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Grace Morris To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20031107141615.35952.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In addition to sources already suggested you can find an extensive bibliography on my website. Warning: There are 2 books (Alcega and Anderson) and 1 article IN ENGLISH on Spanish costume. You can, however, find material in general costuming books for the late 16th century, probably because it is so closely related to "Elizabethan" costume. Grace/Jessamyn jessamynscloset.com On Friday, November 7, 2003, at 06:16 AM, Catalina Sanabria Rosado wrote: > We have a new person who is interested in making a > 16th c Spanish outfit. What sources should we suggest > for her? > > What portraits would be good for her to look at. > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 11:35:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7GZj2q025930 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:35:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7GYtcC023177; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:34:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7GYrsQ027136; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7GYnsQ027068 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:34:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f7a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.122]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E71C75EE141 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:34:47 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000901c3a54d$9c04f020$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031107141615.35952.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] what would you suggest? Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:38:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If she has Elizabeth R on CD or tape, how about that white spanish dress the queen is wearing in some of the first eppisodes? I have always admired that dress, it is absolutely beautifull! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Sanabria Rosado" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 3:16 PM Subject: [h-cost] what would you suggest? > We have a new person who is interested in making a > 16th c Spanish outfit. What sources should we suggest > for her? > > What portraits would be good for her to look at. > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 11:55:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7GtO2q026476 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:55:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7GsCcC025241; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:54:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7GsAsQ013396; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:54:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f24.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7Gs5sQ013239 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:54:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:53:57 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.78 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:53:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.78] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 10:53:57 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Nov 2003 16:53:57.0704 (UTC) FILETIME=[BC52AC80:01C3A54F] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Psychic Archaeology - OT - Are u X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Lisa Sinervo"... >...rhook.homepage or something similar, it had his name on it......and his >web >page had a link to Marc Carlson's web site which contained instructions as >to how to make shoes. I made them in my bedroom which had dressers but no >chairs. I left the piece of paper with the website address on my dresser. >I believe somewhere on Mark's web page, there is a line that says, don't >just photocopy and enlarge these patterns and expect them to fit. I also >made a plaster of paris last out of an old shoe, but first I had to use >masking tape to cover the holes. Just a reminder that I need to overhaul the stupid site completely :) (the plaster last/shoe thing has a lot of problems as a technique). You know, I just get complants from people that I don't just have patterns there they can just print off in whatever their size is. Which, strangely enough reminds me of a lot of psychic archaeology - people wanting it all handed to them easily and predigested so that they can have what they want the answer to be with no effort on their part.. Sorry, I'm just feeling a little cranky today ... Marc _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 12:22:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7HMn2q027306 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:22:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7HMDcC027945; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:22:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7HMAHI007898; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:22:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7HM5HI007769 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:22:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 392214 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 09:22:00 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 09:21:59 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] are you responsible for From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3FABBD92.3090002@kc.rr.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good points. In 1980-82 I worked for a small architectural company in San Francisco. The two senior architects, a man and a woman, always wore suits; the jackets came off as soon as they walked into the office. The others, two other architects (one of them a partner) and two newly-graduated architects who did lots of the final drawings and models wore the other uniform, khaki Levi's, topsiders, light colored button-down shirt. When clients or contractors came to the office the jackets went on, even for the people who might not be seen - they had sports coats in their offices for drop-ins. (I being the whole front office always had to dress very professionally; I was the first person they'd see as they walked in the door and was to give a good first impression.) Oh, yes, clothing says a great deal about who we are and what we think of 'you'. LynnD Where it has been raining nights and the days are sunny and crisp and clean. On 11/7/03 7:43 AM, "A Fairburn" wrote: > Looking around in Google, it seems that the start of casual Friday was > more mid 90's and perhaps tied to the start of the dot coms. I stopped > work in 1990 to raise a family and I remember talk after that about > casual Friday. In 1990, I think women were just moving from the > male-style suits into more feminine tailoring. However, I was an > engineer, and a symbol of the engineers was jeans to distinguish us from > the suits. The times we dressed in suits was for presentations. For > once it seems that engineers and techies were fashion leaders. > > Ann > > Dawn wrote: > >> Rima wrote: >> >>> I'm thinking it was in the late '60's that it became uncool to "dress >> >>> up". Up until then, women still wore nice dresses and guy still >>> wore suits, and people still dressed for the theatre or for dinner. >> >> >> I wouldn't be surprised if the bicentennial in 1976 got a lot of >> people reading "All men are created equal..." and looking at casual >> dress as one of those equalizers. When did 'casual Friday' make its >> entrance into the workplace? Mid 1980's? That would be about when the >> children born in the 60's to parents who thought suits were 'uncool' >> would start to enter the workforce. >> >> Interesting topic for thought. >> >> >> >> Dawn >> >> > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 13:35:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7IZi2q028147 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:35:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7IYbcC005301; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:34:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7IYXCJ012997; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:34:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7IYUCK012874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:34:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 21682 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2003 18:34:23 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com X-Recipient: h-costume@indra.com Received: from unknown (HELO ?65.24.121.184?) (65.24.121.184) by mail.donet.com for h-costume@indra.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2003 18:34:23 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:32:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] what would you suggest? From: Marsha J Hamilton To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20031107141615.35952.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 11/7/03 9:16 AM, Catalina Sanabria Rosado at ladyforbeys@yahoo.com wrote: > We have a new person who is interested in making a > 16th c Spanish outfit. What sources should we suggest > for her? ------------ I highly recommend "Alonso Sanchez Coello: y el retrato en la corte de Felipe II. Museo del Prado, Ministerio de Cultura, 1990. ISBN-84-87317-030. It's an exhibition catalog. I got it from Worldwide Books in the U.S. years ago. You might be able to get a copy on inter-library loan. Even though the text is in Spanish, the 253 page, over-sized paperback has hundreds of superb color and b&w illustrations. Many take up a full page so you can see a fair amount of detail. Most are portraits by a court painter of Philip II of Spain, but it also includes patterns from Alcega, maps, a photo of a chapin, genealogies, info. on the restoration of certain paintings, etc. Definitely drool inducing. You can also do a Google search on "Alonso Sanchez Coello" and get tons of links to reproductions online, museum holdings showing images, etc. Coello's dates are 1533-1588 I think. Marsha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 14:16:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7JGu2q028299 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:16:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7JFWcC009283; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:15:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7JFUQH018970; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:15:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7JFSQH018851 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:15:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D91B425D3 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:20:33 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FABF002.7090504@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:18:26 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] question for Martha re:corset patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha, I have most of your Simplicity patterns for the mid 19th century, but I'm confused on the underwear and corset patterns. Some are labelled for "Civil War", but some are not, and as I have not studied the period extensively they all start to look alike to me. Would it be possible to get approximate dates for the following patterns? 5726 7215 7216 9769 Thanks for your time, Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 15:11:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7KBT2q028575 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:11:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7K9lcC014995; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:09:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7K9hYC007895; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:09:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7K9dYC007827 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:09:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f7a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.122]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B165847FF7E for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 21:09:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c3a56b$174fdf20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 21:09:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] 18th century ladys purse X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I have ben inspired to make a ladys purse for a christmas gift. It will be made of 4 pieces joined together, embroidered and embellished with bobbin gold lace. And then lace holes on the top and a cord to close it with. I was thinking about making it in ivory duchesse satin and should i then line it with taffeta? Could i use some cardboard inside to stiffen the 2 major pieces? Any advises, greatly received :-) Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 15:20:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7KKN2q028582 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:20:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KJZcC016225; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:19:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KJYYC016763; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:19:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mxsf06.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf06.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KJUYC016607 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:19:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from laptop (24-196-146-67.mazo.wi.charter.com [24.196.146.67]) hA7KJ9gR047565 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:19:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Message-ID: <007801c3a56c$48d55f60$4392c418@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:18:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] where'd it go??? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was trying to get to www.elizabethanlady.com to look up info on the corded corset and nothing is coming up - where'd it go???? ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 15:22:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7KML2q028586 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:22:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KLYcC016452; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:21:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KLXYC018414; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:21:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KLUYC018293 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:21:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.f9.337e0eea (15864) for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:21:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m24.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v97.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID63-3df83fabfeb672; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:21:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:21:10 -0500 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] question for Martha re:corset patterns MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <394B2D2D.08DC1413.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/7/2003 2:18:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > Martha, > > I have most of your Simplicity patterns for the mid 19th century, but > I'm confused on the underwear and corset patterns. Some are labelled for > "Civil War", but some are not, and as I have not studied the period > extensively they all start to look alike to me. > > Would it be possible to get approximate dates for the > following patterns? > > 5726 > 7215 > 7216 > 9769 > > Thanks for your time, > > > > Dawn Or could you at least tell us which underwear patterns go with which dresses? There seems to be different sets for different dresses, but I am not sure which are which. Kit Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 15:32:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7KWt2q028605 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:32:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KW0cC017567; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KVvYC027587; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:31:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KVrYC027527 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-236-13.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.236.13]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KVqk1003420 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:31:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031107122034.05237100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:21:13 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century ladys purse In-Reply-To: <000f01c3a56b$174fdf20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have ben inspired to make a ladys purse for a christmas gift. It will be >made of 4 pieces joined together, embroidered and embellished with bobbin >gold lace. And then lace holes on the top and a cord to close it with. >I was thinking about making it in ivory duchesse satin and should i then >line it with taffeta? >Could i use some cardboard inside to stiffen the 2 major pieces? >Any advises, greatly received :-) Yes you can use cardboard, if nobody will ever wash the purse. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 15:36:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7Ka72q028613 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:36:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KZJcC017889; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:35:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KZHYC000599; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:35:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KZEYC000455 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:35:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from Widowweeds@cs.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.91.355d15bf (15901) for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:35:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from tlininn (adslct226.cofs.net [66.77.170.226]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v97.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID94-3e1d3fac01f827c; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:35:04 -0500 Message-ID: <009a01c3a56e$9f256700$6401a8c0@tlininn> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007801c3a56c$48d55f60$4392c418@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:35:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-AOL-IP: 66.77.170.226 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I was trying to get to www.elizabethanlady.com to look up info on the Bizarre. All I get is "Report Abuse to noc@domaindns.net" - eek. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 15:47:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7KlO2q028644 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:47:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KjWcC018929; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:45:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KjKYC009464; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:45:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7KjGYC009363 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58EFE36AF4 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:45:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AIDTn-0008GH-00 for ; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:45:15 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? In-Reply-To: <007801c3a56c$48d55f60$4392c418@mad.chartermi.net> References: <007801c3a56c$48d55f60$4392c418@mad.chartermi.net> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:45:15 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rebecca wrote: > I was trying to get to www.elizabethanlady.com to look up info on the corded > corset and nothing is coming up - where'd it go???? http://modehistorique.com I think. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 16:13:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7LDJ2q028774 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:13:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7LCHcC021876; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:12:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7LCF9e012248; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:12:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from secure4.netll.com (secure4.netll.com [216.139.205.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7LCB9f012196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:12:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from lithiate by secure4.netll.com with local (Exim 4.24) id 1AIDtt-0004G8-V3 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:12:13 -0500 From: "Sarah Goodman-Rodriguez" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.26 X-IPAddress: 165.235.242.125 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:12:13 -0500 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - secure4.netll.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32560 32560] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - secure4.netll.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Elizabethanlady.com is no more. Unfortunately, I was in the midst of transfering all the pages to my new URL http://www.modehistorique.com when the server began throwing a tantrum. I've gotten it sorted out but haven't had time in the last few weeks to resume putting all the files in their proper spots, so I've taken the website down temporarily. If you're looking for info on corded corsets, I believe Jen Thompson's page on boning with hemp cord is what you want: http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/cording/cord.html Sorry for the inconvienence guys! Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com .... Coming soon! > Rebecca wrote: > > I was trying to get to www.elizabethanlady.com to look up info on the corded > > corset and nothing is coming up - where'd it go???? > > http://modehistorique.com I think. > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 16:20:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7LK42q028814 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:20:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7LItcC022762; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:18:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7LIq9e018697; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:18:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7LIm9e018575 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:18:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83599425D3 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:23:54 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FAC0CEC.7020903@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:21:48 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century resources References: <3FAA8C4E.4080108@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.kipar.org/index.html I stumbled on this site this afternoon. They're in the UK, unfortunately, but the site is full of delicious pages on costume and other artifacts from the period. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 16:51:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7Lpn2q028999 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:51:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7LpDcC026009; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:51:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7Lp9Vq020449; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:51:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7LnDVq018734 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:49:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D59D36B8A for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:49:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AIETh-0008KP-00 for ; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:49:13 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century resources In-Reply-To: <3FAC0CEC.7020903@reddawn.net> References: <3FAA8C4E.4080108@reddawn.net> <3FAC0CEC.7020903@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:49:13 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > http://www.kipar.org/index.html > > I stumbled on this site this afternoon. They're in the UK, > unfortunately, but the site is full of delicious pages on costume and > other artifacts from the period. Yes, Nicole Kipar is on this list isn't she? I've admired her site for a long time - beautiful pictures! K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 17:43:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7MhV2q029221 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:43:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7MglcC003581; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:42:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7MgiKp007598; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:42:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mxsf27.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf27.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7MgfKp007470 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:42:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from laptop (24-196-146-67.mazo.wi.charter.com [24.196.146.67]) hA7MQBAE020408 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:26:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Message-ID: <008f01c3a57e$0750bd20$4392c418@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:25:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whew - I thought it had disappeared! Actually, I think it was on your page, where you used some sort of wired rope for a corded petticoat? I was at Home Depot today and couldn't find anything like that in the rope section, so I wanted to double check my very faulty memory against what I had read....oh....2-3 months ago ;-P I'll look forward to seeing your new site up and running. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Goodman-Rodriguez" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? > Elizabethanlady.com is no more. Unfortunately, I was in the midst of > transfering all the pages to my new URL http://www.modehistorique.com > when the server began throwing a tantrum. I've gotten it sorted out > but haven't had time in the last few weeks to resume putting all the > files in their proper spots, so I've taken the website down > temporarily. > > If you're looking for info on corded corsets, I believe Jen Thompson's > page on boning with hemp cord is what you want: > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/cording/cord.html > > Sorry for the inconvienence guys! > > Sarah > http://www.modehistorique.com .... Coming soon! > > > Rebecca wrote: > > > I was trying to get to www.elizabethanlady.com to look up info on > the corded > > > corset and nothing is coming up - where'd it go???? > > > > http://modehistorique.com I think. > > > > K. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 18:46:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7Nkl2q029336 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:46:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7NjwcC012828; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:45:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7Njtnu029427; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:45:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.76]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7Njqnu029374 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:45:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from chris (dialup-a1-503.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.247.249]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 45E09E0E45 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:47:23 +1100 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Psychic Archaeology - OT - Are u responsible for thevoices in myhead? wasemailquestions Re: Primary? Secondary? Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:47:45 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <000801c3a529$bb80d2d0$7348ccd1@Kass> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I reserve the right to: Eat as much meat as I want; Take a tablet when I have a headache; Ignore political correctness until the correctnessers are blue in the face; Cut up bits of cow for my costumes; Use fur wherever I want; Laugh at Freud; Use Jung's (and Joe Campbell's) work as the tools they were intended to be; Drink booze, watch cricket and ignore the New Age; and Do the hard work when it comes to research, -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 18:52:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA7NqJ2q029348 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:52:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7NpZcC013596; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:51:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7NpYnu003872; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:51:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from secure4.netll.com (secure4.netll.com [216.139.205.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA7NpUnv003810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:51:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from lithiate by secure4.netll.com with local (Exim 4.24) id 1AIGO6-0004H0-R4 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 18:51:34 -0500 From: "Sarah Goodman-Rodriguez" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.26 X-IPAddress: 165.235.242.125 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 18:51:34 -0500 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - secure4.netll.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32560 32560] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - secure4.netll.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, that was polyeurethane tubing (I know I butchered the spelling on that...), 3/4" diameter, I think. It was a while ago, so I can't remember exactly what I used. It should be in the plumbing section of Home Depot, if I remember correctly. :) Sarah > Whew - I thought it had disappeared! Actually, I think it was on your page, > where you used some sort of wired rope for a corded petticoat? I was at Home > Depot today and couldn't find anything like that in the rope section, so I > wanted to double check my very faulty memory against what I had > read....oh....2-3 months ago ;-P > > I'll look forward to seeing your new site up and running. > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > A room without books is like a body without a soul > ---Cicero > > lotsofteapots@charter.net > ********************** > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sarah Goodman-Rodriguez" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 3:12 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? > > > > Elizabethanlady.com is no more. Unfortunately, I was in the midst of > > transfering all the pages to my new URL http://www.modehistorique.com > > when the server began throwing a tantrum. I've gotten it sorted out > > but haven't had time in the last few weeks to resume putting all the > > files in their proper spots, so I've taken the website down > > temporarily. > > > > If you're looking for info on corded corsets, I believe Jen Thompson's > > page on boning with hemp cord is what you want: > > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/cording/cord.html > > > > Sorry for the inconvienence guys! > > > > Sarah > > http://www.modehistorique.com .... Coming soon! > > > > > Rebecca wrote: > > > > I was trying to get to www.elizabethanlady.com to look up info on > > the corded > > > > corset and nothing is coming up - where'd it go???? > > > > > > http://modehistorique.com I think. > > > > > > K. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 19:03:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA803m2q029392 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:03:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8023cC014452; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:02:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA80215w010621; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from secure4.netll.com (secure4.netll.com [216.139.205.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA801x5x010592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from lithiate by secure4.netll.com with local (Exim 4.24) id 1AIGYF-0004o5-QL for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 19:02:03 -0500 From: "Sarah Goodman-Rodriguez" To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.26 X-IPAddress: 165.235.242.125 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 19:02:03 -0500 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - secure4.netll.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32560 32560] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - secure4.netll.com Subject: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of the future... (was RE: Psychic Archeology) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This has nothing to do with "Psychic Archeology" (I'm really biting my tongue on that one), but there is the field of quantum physics that allows for the possibility of multiple universes and time travel. It's entirely too complex for me to even begin to fathom, but the September 2001 issue of Discover ran a great article on it (http://www.discover.com/issues/sep-01/cover/). Most recently, it's been the subject of a new NOVA series on PBS, but since I no longer have a TV, I haven't yet seen any episodes dealing with it. Anyhoo... I would have to agree with Kass on this. I think time travel would kill the fun in costuming for me. Sure, it would be interesting to answer all those pressing questions we debate about constantly, but to me, time travel would feel like cheating. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 19:15:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA80FL2q029404 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:15:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA80EncC015457; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:14:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA80EmV5018318; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:14:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA80EjV5018261 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:14:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 393526 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:14:39 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:14:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of the future... From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree with Sarah about not wanting to go back in time to have those mystical questions answered, but I'd still really like for someone who knows to write that book a friend and I have talked about for years, "Hey, Lady, Turn Around" so we can finally see how the backs of those clothes and hats look and fit. LynnD On 11/7/03 4:02 PM, "Sarah Goodman-Rodriguez" wrote: > This has nothing to do with "Psychic Archeology" (I'm really biting my > tongue on that one), but there is the field of quantum physics that > allows for the possibility of multiple universes and time travel. > It's entirely too complex for me to even begin to fathom, but the > September 2001 issue of Discover ran a great article on it > (http://www.discover.com/issues/sep-01/cover/). Most recently, it's > been the subject of a new NOVA series on PBS, but since I no longer > have a TV, I haven't yet seen any episodes dealing with it. > > Anyhoo... I would have to agree with Kass on this. I think time > travel would kill the fun in costuming for me. Sure, it would be > interesting to answer all those pressing questions we debate about > constantly, but to me, time travel would feel like cheating. > > Sarah > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 21:04:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA824k2q029702 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 21:04:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8245cC021827; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:04:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8242Da014664; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA823xDa014645 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:03:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-35-003.jps.net ([209.165.35.3] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AIISD-0000py-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 18:03:57 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01c3a59d$4d9402a0$0323a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: making shoe patterns was Re: [h-cost] Re: Psychic Archaeology - OT - Are u Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:09:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc Carlson wrote: > > Just a reminder that I need to overhaul the stupid site completely :) (the > plaster last/shoe thing has a lot of problems as a technique). > > You know, I just get complants from people that I don't just have patterns > there they can just print off in whatever their size is. Which, strangely > enough reminds me of a lot of psychic archaeology - people wanting it all > handed to them easily and predigested so that they can have what they want > the answer to be with no effort on their part.. > > Sorry, I'm just feeling a little cranky today ... It's fine I completely understand. The thing always in the back of my mind about psychic archaeology or anything psychic , despite a number of my own positive experiences is, even if it worked perfectly, one is still tapping into a collective consciousness, which must mean that even the thoughts of complete idiots must be swirling around up for grabs, which I think would be a complete worry. I have my fingers crossed that there must be some sort of filtering system, but at times I'm not so sure. I ended up tossing my plaster of Paris last out, it didn't work at all. The technique I have found to be most successful with developing a patterns for medieval shoes is this. I take a piece of heavy cardboard and trace the image of the foot I wish to make shoes for on it. Then I take the cardboard and draw a sole on it with the proper period silhouette to accommodate the foot outline and then I cut it out. Next I put a square of cork board on the floor, put the cut out cardboard sole on the corkboard and have the person stand on the cardboard sole. Then I take a pieces of felt cut out like very generalized oversized pattern pieces from the diagrams you provided and then I drape them over the foot pinning the felt to the corkboard just where the cardboard sole is in such a way that I would like the leather to drape over a persons foot if it were a shoe. I've even added cotton balls at the toe during the draping process.. Then I take a felt pen and draw lines on the felt where I think the leather should end to make the shoe the style I want. Then I ask the person to remove their foot and I draw a line around the felt where the cardboard sole edges are. Next I cut the felt and sew it into a shoe, have the person try it on again and then I make further adjustments if necessary. Then I take it apart and have my pattern for a shoe and make it up in leather. I've only tried this for turn shoes, but it works very well. Thanks also for the time you spend on your site. I've found it most useful. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 21:38:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA82c82q029810 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 21:38:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA82bTcC023452; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:37:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA82bRDa029803; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:37:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA82bJDb029746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:37:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA82bFUZ004551 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 21:37:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA82bE7B004549 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 21:37:14 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] are you responsible for Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 21:37:14 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200311071058.hA7AwGe26444@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200311071058.hA7AwGe26444@gw.retro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311072137.14198.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 07 November 2003 05:58 am, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > [snip] > > I was in the workplace by mid-1985, and there was no such thing as > > casual Friday in the law firm culture then. > > You can thank the computer industry for 'casual Friday,' I think. I > remember that by 1986-87, the "Friday Beer Bash" was already becoming > common. I first saw that at Apple Computer, but other companies started > following suit. You could well be right. That was why I specified "law firm culture." It took a while for the idea to percolate from the computer firms to the business firms, to us.... > > [...] > > > At the beginning of the dot.boom, a huge Philadelphia firm called Morgan, > > Lewis & Bockius adopted a "casual day most of the time" policy, and > > literally within days, most of the law firms in Philadelphia, including > > mine, had followed suit. > > Then again, at Apple, it was de rigeur to wear your project tshirt. Every > project group had their own shirts made up, usually with the "top secret" > code name for their latest piece of hardware or software. That was late > 80s. Even Apple's gone through a couple culture changes since then. Sometimes law firms do this--people will make a t-shirt for a special case (particularly if it's a big one that goes on for years and involves a lot of the firm's people). Though this isn't always a good idea. The story is told of a big NYC firm that was accused by a major client of flagrant overbilling. Their attempts to justify themselves were undercut by the client's producing snapshots of some of the firm's legal assistants wearing t-shirts that read: "Born to Bill." > > > Some of those firms switched back to business dress after the bust, but > > we've kept the business casual policy. > > Computer companies that have survived the dotbomb have gotten much less > lenient about dress codes. Though Intel (where I heard the most > complaints) has always been on the conservative side of the industry. Probably true. I wonder what IBM's up to in that regard. They've changed a lot over time when it comes to this aspect of corporate culture. When I was in law school, even the programmers there were required to wear jacket and tie--all the time. When my husband went to speak to an IBM group in 1998, he wore a polo shirt and a nice pair of black jeans, and was, in his words, "the best-dressed person there...." > I dunno, I always thought the cookie cutter "casual" look of blue oxford > shirt, kakhis, and either white leather sneakers or brown topsiders was > pretty lame myself. It still suffered from the problem of many people not > having any creativity in dress. Though when you're getting up between 6 and 7 a.m. to make it to work by 9, and staying at work until 6 or 7 p.m., originality in costume is *not* one of your higher priorities (I ought to know).... :-) >So when they ditched the suits, they just > picked another uniform. Even when I wore a suit (I'm female, wearing a > 3-piece suit was unusual), I tried to make it look interesting. Silk vests > and ties, dress shoes and boots that weren't the two or three styles that > everyone else wore, shirts that had embroidered details. It wasn't really > all that hard to find any of those things, I just had to actually *think* > about how the outfits would look. I made a point of buying clothes out of which I could get as many different looks as possible. I now wear suit jackets with nice sweaters and chinos, in various combinations. But anyway, I get your point. :-) > But now I'm disabled, and I no longer even present papers at technical > conferences, so I have no reason to wear a suit. My husband stole my > spiffy ties a couple years ago, so at least those are still being worn. > I'm now practicing to be a batty auntie, like in "Practical Magic." ;} More power to you. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 22:22:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA83M22q029872 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 22:22:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA83LMcC025620; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 20:21:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA83LKPE020273; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 20:21:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA83LHPE020199 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 20:21:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a21.in-tch.com [66.62.107.1]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hA830Cc11706 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 20:00:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FAC61BF.6D3DA32B@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:23:43 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century resources References: <3FAA8C4E.4080108@reddawn.net> <3FAAA328.9070703@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know the gal with the vertandsable website (cf Renaissance Tailor group). She's a completely amazing person and artisan (in other words, I wanna be her when I grow up!). I'd imagine that the list would be a good mix of the practical and the theoretical and the historical (if that makes any sense!) --sue Dawn wrote: > > 75 TheRenaissanceTailor > Welcome to the Renaissance Tailor egroup... This is a discussion group > for people interested in 16th and 17th century tailoring, embellishment > and accessories. Focus is on techniques from Europe (mainly France, > England and Italy) but we also explore tailoring in Eastern Europe, > Central Asia and Northern Africa. This is the companion egroup for the > website http //www.vertetsable.com Because of the increase in spam, > memberships are now approved by the list admin prior to activation. In > most cases, ... more > > (259 members, this might be a go) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 22:51:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA83pD2q030607 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 22:51:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA83oWcC026972; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 20:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA83oUPE004011; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 20:50:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f51.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA83oSPE003931 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 20:50:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:50:22 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.73 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 08 Nov 2003 03:50:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.73] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re:making shoe patterns was Re: [h-cost] Re: Psychic Archaeology - OT - Are u Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 21:50:22 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Nov 2003 03:50:22.0630 (UTC) FILETIME=[6F917460:01C3A5AB] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Lisa Sinervo" >It's fine I completely understand. The thing always in the back of my mind >about psychic archaeology or anything psychic , despite a number of my own >positive experiences is, even if it worked perfectly, one is still tapping >into a collective consciousness, which must mean that even the thoughts of >complete idiots must be swirling around up for grabs, which I think would >be >a complete worry. I have my fingers crossed that there must be some sort >of >filtering system, but at times I'm not so sure. Coming from a family with a history of Psychic occurances, and having had a number that I couldn't explain - I'm one of the most skeptical people I know about such things. This is probably because I have had experience with how easy it is to fool myself and others. >...Next I cut the felt and sew it into a shoe, have the person try it on >again >and then I make further adjustments if necessary. Then I take it apart and >have my pattern for a shoe and make it up in leather. I've only tried this >for turn shoes, but it works very well. It's a little more complicated than the general method I currently use, when I don't have a last - but essentially the same. OTOH, the lady who taught the class after mine at KWCS this year had a patterning technique that I haven't finished testing into the ground, but was beautifully simple. >...Thanks also for the time you spend on your site. I've found it most >useful. I'm just glad that people have uses for these things. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 7 23:35:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA84ZO2q031239 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 23:35:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA84XpcC029007; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 21:33:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA84Xmrs024078; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 21:33:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA84Xgrt023976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 21:33:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA84XeUZ004802 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 23:33:43 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA84Xcte004800 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 23:33:38 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Casual Fridays Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 23:33:38 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <002001c3a53f$7a1a1c00$7348ccd1@Kass> In-Reply-To: <002001c3a53f$7a1a1c00$7348ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311072333.38184.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 07 November 2003 09:57 am, Kass McGann wrote: [snip] > ... When I wear a suit to a > business meeting, it says to my client "I think you're important enough > to dress up for." It shows I respect them. It also establishes a bit > of formal distance. They are my clients; not my bosom buddies. That is > an important distinction. You shouldn't operate casually in business > situations. That may depend upon the nature of your relationship with your clients. One of the reasons my law firm has retained the "business casual" dress code is that many of our best clients prefer it. Specifically, they prefer being able to attend meetings wearing chinos and polo shirts themselves and know that they will not look out of place. Even so, management reserves the right to tell us to wear suits in honor of special visitors, and of course we wear suits for court appearances and meetings outside the office. Because you are right, clothing does convey a message, and sometimes the combination of formality and competence conveyed by a suit is the right and necessary message. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 8 01:03:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA863V2q002072 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 01:03:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA862kcC003345; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 23:02:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA862h9h001984; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 23:02:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA862f9h001969 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 23:02:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-34-149.jps.net ([209.165.34.149] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AIMBE-0002Tw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 22:02:40 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01c3a5be$a75c01e0$9522a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Re:making shoe patterns was Re: [h-cost] Re: Psychic Archaeology -OT - Are u Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 22:07:16 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc Carlson wrote: > Coming from a family with a history of Psychic occurances, and having had a > number that I couldn't explain - I'm one of the most skeptical people I know > about such things. This is probably because I have had experience with how > easy it is to fool myself and others. > Perhaps String Theory, as discussed on NOVA, as mentioned by Sarah, might prove to be an explaination for these occurances. Then we'll only have to sort out fraud, from misinterpretation, from genuine events................Yikes!! I think for costuming research, I'll be sticking to linear and documentable sources...... Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 8 01:23:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA86N32q002771 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 01:23:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA86MPcC004192; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 23:22:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA86MO9h010279; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 23:22:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA86MK9h010192 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 23:22:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.68.245]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031108062216.YDKA23529.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 01:22:16 -0500 Message-ID: <003f01c3a5c0$84d102e0$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 01:21:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [h-cost] Shoes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! A question for Marc specifically, but for anyone else who has done this your input is greatly appreciated. :-) You mentioned in another post that the plaster last made from an old shoe was problematic, what specifically was/is the problem? My husband was actually just about to use his last pair of sneakers to make a couple of lasts per your article, any pointers or tips before we proceed to make a plastery mess of my kitchen? :-) I do actually own a couple of wooden lasts (an inheritance) but they are in storage somewhere on the other end of the country. Any help or input is greatly appreciated. Sheridan -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 8 08:44:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA8DiI2q011857 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 08:44:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8DgLcC018041; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 06:42:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8DgHQH025771; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 06:42:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8DgDQH025678 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 06:42:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m197.in-tch.com [216.166.191.197]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hA8DL8c22543 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 06:21:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FACF348.98FA9C15@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 06:44:40 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: making shoe patterns was Re: [h-cost] Re: Psychic Archaeology -OT - Are u References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, absolutely! For drooling purposes, if nothing else! I've been spending a lot of time lately, cruising the tunic/hood pages--it's really nice to have the different examples and categories. And a couple of those Spanish garments have a future with me--a friend of mine and I want to "recreate" a picture from Islamic Spain that shows a Muslim woman and a Christian woman. --sue Marc Carlson wrote: > > >From: "Lisa Sinervo" > >...Thanks also for the time you spend on your site. I've found it most > >useful. > > I'm just glad that people have uses for these things. > > Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 8 10:26:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA8FQZ2q012146 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:26:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8FOlcC024844; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 08:24:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8FOjim007105; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 08:24:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta8.adelphia.net (mta8.adelphia.net [68.168.78.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8FOhim007059 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 08:24:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphia.net ([68.232.20.176]) by mta8.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031108152441.DXVA2679.mta8.adelphia.net@adelphia.net> for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:24:41 -0500 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:24:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: randl@adelphia.net To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200311080204.hA824eDb014956@net.indra.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO go down to the 07/13/03 entry. i went looking for "wire rope" too. i found a lot of different types of wire and rope, no wire rope. i've been meaning to drop her a line, but i'm a slacker:) if you find it (the wire rope) please post! laurie http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/diary2002/page3.html On Friday, November 7, 2003, at 09:04 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:25:19 -0600 > From: > Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: <008f01c3a57e$0750bd20$4392c418@mad.chartermi.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Whew - I thought it had disappeared! Actually, I think it was on your > page, > where you used some sort of wired rope for a corded petticoat? I was > at Home > Depot today and couldn't find anything like that in the rope section, > so I > wanted to double check my very faulty memory against what I had > read....oh....2-3 months ago ;-P > > I'll look forward to seeing your new site up and running. > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 8 11:55:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA8GtS2q012425 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 11:55:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8GsecC029101; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:54:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8Gsb1I014710; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:54:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8GsY1I014697 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:54:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-34-243.jps.net ([209.165.34.243] helo=pavilion) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AIWM5-0003d6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 08 Nov 2003 08:54:34 -0800 Message-ID: <001701c3a619$b79b3020$f322a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003f01c3a5c0$84d102e0$cb6afea9@shooie> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoes Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 08:58:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Sheridan, Obviously I'm not Marc and have only tried the plaster of paris method once, but this is my experience. I used a pair of old soft loafers for my lasts. Because they were old, stretched and soft, I put them on and wrapped a small roll of masking tape tightly around them to give them support and reduce the size. I understand now why foot binding has been banned! Although my last mold was quite solid after this tape wrapping application, the plaster of paris still put quite a bit of pressure on them and they became low and squished out at the sides, even supporting the shoes during the drying process didn't return them to a respectable foot shape. I ended up tossing them out without using them at all. The draping method works quite well. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 10:21 PM Subject: [h-cost] Shoes > Hi! > > A question for Marc specifically, but for anyone else who has done this your > input is greatly appreciated. :-) > > You mentioned in another post that the plaster last made from an old shoe > was problematic, what specifically was/is the problem? My husband was > actually just about to use his last pair of sneakers to make a couple of > lasts per your article, any pointers or tips before we proceed to make a > plastery mess of my kitchen? :-) I do actually own a couple of wooden lasts > (an inheritance) but they are in storage somewhere on the other end of the > country. > > Any help or input is greatly appreciated. > > Sheridan > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to > recognize a mistake when you make it again. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 8 12:25:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA8HPM2q012548 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:25:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8HOicC000686; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:24:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8HOguT027332; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA8HOeuT027308 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:24:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-122-230-16.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.122.230.16 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Nov 2003 17:24:39 -0000 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:24:33 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <6B2B4696-1210-11D8-B6EC-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, I see... Jen mentioned "wire rope". I got confused and thought that you were refering to something on the Elizabethan Lady website, which I'm 99.9% sure never mentioned wire rope. I'm not sure if this what Jen used, but I have seen braided wire cable at Home Depot that looks sturdy enough to work in a farthingale. You'd most likely find it in the electrical section, and I believe it comes on those large spools, so you'd have to get it cut by an employee. Sarah On Saturday, November 8, 2003, at 07:24 AM, randl@adelphia.net wrote: > go down to the 07/13/03 entry. > i went looking for "wire rope" too. i found a lot of different types > of wire and rope, no wire rope. i've been meaning to drop her a line, > but i'm a slacker:) if you find it (the wire rope) please post! > laurie > > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/diary2002/page3.html > On Friday, November 7, 2003, at 09:04 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com > wrote: > >> >> Message: 11 >> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:25:19 -0600 >> From: >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? >> To: "Historical Costume" >> Message-ID: <008f01c3a57e$0750bd20$4392c418@mad.chartermi.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Whew - I thought it had disappeared! Actually, I think it was on your >> page, >> where you used some sort of wired rope for a corded petticoat? I was >> at Home >> Depot today and couldn't find anything like that in the rope section, >> so I >> wanted to double check my very faulty memory against what I had >> read....oh....2-3 months ago ;-P >> >> I'll look forward to seeing your new site up and running. >> >> ********************** >> Rebecca Schmitt >> aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot >> BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _________________________________________________ http://www.elizabethanlady.com "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure their security deserve neither..." Benjamin Franklin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 8 12:34:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA8HYA2q012590 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:34:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8HXYcC001268; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:33:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8HXXuT001092; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:33:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8HXUuT001074 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:33:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-108-89.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.108.89]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ANF98648; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 17:33:29 GMT Message-ID: <006501c3a61f$305241c0$596c4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003f01c3a5c0$84d102e0$cb6afea9@shooie> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoes Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 17:38:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >post that the plaster last made from an old shoe was problematic I made one pair from an ankle boot, them I had that made in Aluminium It is a pretty good guide to my foot shape as drapping my own foor is uncomfortable to say the least :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 8 13:28:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA8ISG2q013086 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 13:28:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8IRbcC004053; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 11:27:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8IRYVc023969; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 11:27:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mxsf06.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf06.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8IRVVc023922 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 11:27:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from laptop (24-196-146-67.mazo.wi.charter.com [24.196.146.67]) hA8IPvpw078642 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 13:25:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Message-ID: <002901c3a625$a41ef980$4392c418@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <6B2B4696-1210-11D8-B6EC-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:25:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, that's the stuff. I've tried the tubing and not liked the results very much. Of course, I could not remember for the life of me *where* I had read all about this...and so figured it was on the site I couldn't get too :-P I'll be going to Home Depot tonight, so I'll check it out and see what they've got, now that I have a better idea of what I'm looking for. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? > Ah, I see... Jen mentioned "wire rope". I got confused and thought > that you were refering to something on the Elizabethan Lady website, > which I'm 99.9% sure never mentioned wire rope. > > I'm not sure if this what Jen used, but I have seen braided wire cable > at Home Depot that looks sturdy enough to work in a farthingale. You'd > most likely find it in the electrical section, and I believe it comes > on those large spools, so you'd have to get it cut by an employee. > > Sarah > > > On Saturday, November 8, 2003, at 07:24 AM, randl@adelphia.net wrote: > > > go down to the 07/13/03 entry. > > i went looking for "wire rope" too. i found a lot of different types > > of wire and rope, no wire rope. i've been meaning to drop her a line, > > but i'm a slacker:) if you find it (the wire rope) please post! > > laurie > > > > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/diary2002/page3.html > > On Friday, November 7, 2003, at 09:04 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com > > wrote: > > > >> > >> Message: 11 > >> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:25:19 -0600 > >> From: > >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? > >> To: "Historical Costume" > >> Message-ID: <008f01c3a57e$0750bd20$4392c418@mad.chartermi.net> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> Whew - I thought it had disappeared! Actually, I think it was on your > >> page, > >> where you used some sort of wired rope for a corded petticoat? I was > >> at Home > >> Depot today and couldn't find anything like that in the rope section, > >> so I > >> wanted to double check my very faulty memory against what I had > >> read....oh....2-3 months ago ;-P > >> > >> I'll look forward to seeing your new site up and running. > >> > >> ********************** > >> Rebecca Schmitt > >> aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > >> BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _________________________________________________ > http://www.elizabethanlady.com > > "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure > their security deserve neither..." > > Benjamin Franklin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 8 15:25:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA8KPT2q015280 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 15:25:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8KODcC010249; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 13:24:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA8KO8IG013462; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 13:24:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA8KO6IH013398 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 13:24:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2003110815240003259 for ; Sat, 08 Nov 2003 15:24:00 -0500 Received: from mccc.edu ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id hA8KNw916428 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 15:23:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FAD5057.83811E05@mccc.edu> Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 15:21:45 -0500 From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? References: <6B2B4696-1210-11D8-B6EC-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wire rope is also known as aircraft cable, sometimes just cable. You might find it in the same are as chain. You either use 'crosbys' or nicopress fittings to attach it. Kate Sarah wrote: > Ah, I see... Jen mentioned "wire rope". I got confused and thought > that you were refering to something on the Elizabethan Lady website, > which I'm 99.9% sure never mentioned wire rope. > > I'm not sure if this what Jen used, but I have seen braided wire cable > at Home Depot that looks sturdy enough to work in a farthingale. You'd > most likely find it in the electrical section, and I believe it comes > on those large spools, so you'd have to get it cut by an employee. > > Sarah > > On Saturday, November 8, 2003, at 07:24 AM, randl@adelphia.net wrote: > > > go down to the 07/13/03 entry. > > i went looking for "wire rope" too. i found a lot of different types > > of wire and rope, no wire rope. i've been meaning to drop her a line, > > but i'm a slacker:) if you find it (the wire rope) please post! > > laurie > > > > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/diary2002/page3.html > > On Friday, November 7, 2003, at 09:04 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com > > wrote: > > > >> > >> Message: 11 > >> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:25:19 -0600 > >> From: > >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? > >> To: "Historical Costume" > >> Message-ID: <008f01c3a57e$0750bd20$4392c418@mad.chartermi.net> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> Whew - I thought it had disappeared! Actually, I think it was on your > >> page, > >> where you used some sort of wired rope for a corded petticoat? I was > >> at Home > >> Depot today and couldn't find anything like that in the rope section, > >> so I > >> wanted to double check my very faulty memory against what I had > >> read....oh....2-3 months ago ;-P > >> > >> I'll look forward to seeing your new site up and running. > >> > >> ********************** > >> Rebecca Schmitt > >> aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > >> BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _________________________________________________ > http://www.elizabethanlady.com > > "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure > their security deserve neither..." > > Benjamin Franklin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 00:06:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA956s2q021592 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 00:06:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA956AcC005218; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:06:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA95614U024270; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f44.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA955t4U024144 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:05:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 21:05:50 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.42 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 05:05:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.42] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Re:making shoe patterns was Re: [h-cost] Re: Psychic Archaeology -OT - Are u Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:05:50 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2003 05:05:50.0634 (UTC) FILETIME=[24E1C8A0:01C3A67F] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Perhaps String Theory, as discussed on NOVA, as mentioned by Sarah, might >prove to be an explaination for these occurances. Then we'll only have to >sort out fraud, from misinterpretation, from genuine >events................Yikes!! I think for costuming research, I'll be >sticking to linear and documentable sources...... I think for historical costuming that would be more "thread theory", Honestly, with regards to modern physics, I came to realize that I was going to have issues when someone explained Shroedinger's cat to me, and my brain refused to accept the whole collapsing probability wave function thing since objectively there's just a cat in the box, condition unknown and whether or not we perceive it is irrelevant. String theory is just worse -- particularly since it can't be tested. From: Sue Clemenger >For drooling purposes, if nothing else! >I've been spending a lot of time lately, cruising the tunic/hood >pages--it's really nice to have the different examples and categories. And >a couple of those Spanish garments have a future with me--a friend >of mine and I want to "recreate" a picture from Islamic Spain that shows >a Muslim woman and a Christian woman. I hope it works out. I'm convinced that eventually I'll get back to that site and start putting up the other items I have stuff on. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 00:17:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA95HB2q021604 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 00:17:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA95GZcC005693; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:16:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA95GV4U028613; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:16:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f31.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA95GT4U028562 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:16:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 21:16:24 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.42 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 05:16:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.42] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:16:24 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2003 05:16:24.0392 (UTC) FILETIME=[9EA19480:01C3A680] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Shoes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "Sheridan & Shane" >You mentioned in another post that the plaster last made from an old shoe >was problematic, what specifically was/is the problem? My husband was >actually just about to use his last pair of sneakers to make a couple of >lasts per your article, any pointers or tips before we proceed to make a >plastery mess of my kitchen? :-) I do actually own a couple of wooden lasts >(an inheritance) but they are in storage somewhere on the other end of the >country. Ok, the -major- trauma was that when I did this, I used an old pair of army dress shoes I had on hand. I secured them fairly tightly but ultimately when I poured the plaster the fact that I was creating an image of the inside of a shoe wound up working against me -- the sides and sole bulged unevenly (for the pressure reasons that Lisa mentions), and I wound up with some unexpected ridges from the "tabs" (where the shoelaces go) along the instep. Look carefully and I do really say that I don't think people should waste much time with this technique :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 04:57:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA99v02q001960 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 04:57:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA99uMcC015139; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 02:56:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA99uJgg005788; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 02:56:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from gizmo10ps.email.bigpond.com (gizmo10ps.email.bigpond.com [144.140.71.20] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA99uFgg005731 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 02:56:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11672 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2003 09:47:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarke) (144.135.25.75) by gizmo10ps.email.bigpond.com with SMTP; 9 Nov 2003 09:47:02 -0000 Received: from 144.138.240.204 ([144.138.240.204]) by psmam03.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 83/3889732); 09 Nov 2003 19:56:03 Message-ID: <008301c3a6a7$b08807c0$ccf08a90@clarke> From: "Purple Elephant" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of the future... (was RE: Psychic Archeology) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 20:55:58 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This has nothing to do with "Psychic Archeology" (I'm really biting my > tongue on that one), but there is the field of quantum physics that > allows for the possibility of multiple universes and time travel. > It's entirely too complex for me to even begin to fathom, but the > September 2001 issue of Discover ran a great article on it > (http://www.discover.com/issues/sep-01/cover/). Most recently, it's > been the subject of a new NOVA series on PBS, but since I no longer > have a TV, I haven't yet seen any episodes dealing with it. > Speaking as someone who used to be a quantum physicist, I wouldn't be holding my breath. The 'many worlds' theory of quantum mechanics is only one way of interpreting it, and time travel still, as far as we know, requires conditions that are not allowed in this universe in order to occur. Sorry to be a killjoy :-) > Anyhoo... I would have to agree with Kass on this. I think time > travel would kill the fun in costuming for me. Sure, it would be > interesting to answer all those pressing questions we debate about > constantly, but to me, time travel would feel like cheating. I think it would kill part of the fun, but not all of it. There are two parts of it for me - the research side which is kind of like a puzzle, and the making stuff/reviving lost arts parts which is a pleasure for entirely different reasons. Time travel would take some of the puzzle out of the research (though I'm sure it wouldn't answer all the questions), but it wouldn't take away from the other part. Claire > > Sarah > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 05:56:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA9Aus2q003213 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 05:56:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9AuPcC017142; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 03:56:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9AuNeE022270; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 03:56:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9AuJeF022225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 03:56:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA9AtYPX009489 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 05:55:34 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 05:55:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FAE1D87.8070804@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 05:57:11 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Subject: [h-cost] John of Eltham effigy? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Folks, I'm trying to track down Norris's alleged source for a headdress, but it seems to be obscure. He writes: Queen, from the time of Edward II (figure 300, p. 215): The figures of "weepers" on the tomb of John of Eltham represented kings and queens, relatives of the deceased. It is not certain which is Margaret of France, second queen of Edward I, but all the queens are robed in costumes such as this lady and her niece, Isabella of France, Queen of Edward II, would wear. Websearching has turned up only one lead: An article in the journal CHURCH MONUMENTS - VOLUME II 1987 by Leslie Southwick: "The Armoured Effigy of Prince John of Eltham in Westminster Abbey and Some Closely Related Military Monuments." I'm hoping someone might have a survey of funerary items that covers John of Eltham; the books I have do not even mention him. I'll see if ILL might let me read the article, but from the title, it might not cover ancillary figures. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 11:00:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA9G0a2q012132 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:00:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9FxmcC027343; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:59:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9Fxh92008464; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:59:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9Fxe92008445 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:59:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-40-174.jps.net ([209.165.40.174] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AIryV-0006Xj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 07:59:39 -0800 Message-ID: <000b01c3a6db$3ade4640$ae28a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <008301c3a6a7$b08807c0$ccf08a90@clarke> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:04:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of the future... (was RE:Psychic Archeology) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sarah (I think wrote) > > > Speaking as someone who used to be a quantum physicist, I > wouldn't be holding my breath. The 'many worlds' theory of > quantum mechanics is only one way of interpreting it, and time > travel still, as far as we know, requires conditions that are not > allowed in this universe in order to occur. Sorry to be a killjoy :-) > I've had a few dreams where the clothing or they way clothing was worn was in a dream. Such as a composite charater "Chris" had the shirt buttons undone in a dream and later two years later at a fancy event that matched the dream description a man who matched the rest of the contents of the dream was the only manager not wearing a tie, but had the first button undone on his shirt and it was talked about. The thing I've noticed about my dreams though is, they seem to only cover events or time periods that I eventually experience, nothing beyond my life time, either before or after which makes "psychic" costume research out of reach. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 11:53:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA9GrO2q012273 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:53:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9GqfcC029264; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 09:52:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9Gqe92028627; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 09:52:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9Gqb92028607 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 09:52:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-40-174.jps.net ([209.165.40.174] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AIsnk-0000xv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:52:36 -0800 Message-ID: <001901c3a6e2$a15c3420$ae28a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Re:making shoe patterns was Re: [h-cost] Re: Psychic Archaeology-OT - Are u Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:57:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc wrote: > I think for historical costuming that would be more "thread theory", > Honestly, with regards to modern physics, I came to realize that I was going > to have issues when someone explained Shroedinger's cat to me, and my brain > refused to accept the whole collapsing probability wave function thing since > objectively there's just a cat in the box, condition unknown and whether or > not we perceive it is irrelevant. String theory is just worse -- > particularly since it can't be tested. > HA HA, I've never understood that cat scenerio myself. "Thread Theory" :) sounds interesting to me, but I'm definetly in the Jung camp based upon my experiences especially since dreams have a timeless quality even if they end up being about the future which constantly surprises me in a way that makes life so very interesting. Time travel to me, is like traveling to a place that doesn't exist, but in a way, it does happen. Don't know why I don't dream about the distant past, but I guess that only happens in sitcoms. If I had a dream about a 16th century tailoring technique, based upon the patterns of my dreams, my guess would be that I was dreaming about a re-enactment that I'd be running into in the future. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 12:14:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA9HEb2q012348 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:14:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9HDocC000588; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 10:13:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9HDk7M007495; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 10:13:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA9HDi7M007432 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 10:13:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OkqdVW8GkJCsyxbx3yVyHvo=">; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 09:13:02 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JEKER9UT; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 09:13:02 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 09:00:12 -0800 Subject: Re: Re:making shoe patterns was Re: [h-cost] Re: Psychic Archaeology-OT - Are u Message-ID: <20031109.091242.1132.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,6-9,11-59 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not to spout doctrine or anything of the sort, but I've always been fascinated by one of the Wiccan sayings: "All space is here, all time is now," which you have to admit has all sorts of interesting connotations. :) Let's see, obligatory costume content: what exactly is a blanchet? I was reading _The Goodman of Paris_ and happened upon it. Arlys On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:57:58 -0800 "Lisa Sinervo" writes: > Marc wrote: > > > I think for historical costuming that would be more "thread > theory", > > Honestly, with regards to modern physics, I came to realize that I > was > going > > to have issues when someone explained Shroedinger's cat to me, and > my > brain > > refused to accept the whole collapsing probability wave function > thing > since > > objectively there's just a cat in the box, condition unknown and > whether > or > > not we perceive it is irrelevant. String theory is just worse -- > > particularly since it can't be tested. > > > > HA HA, I've never understood that cat scenerio myself. "Thread > Theory" :) > sounds interesting to me, but I'm definetly in the Jung camp based > upon my > experiences especially since dreams have a timeless quality even if > they end > up being about the future which constantly surprises me in a way > that makes > life so very interesting. Time travel to me, is like traveling to a > place > that doesn't exist, but in a way, it does happen. > > Don't know why I don't dream about the distant past, but I guess > that only > happens in sitcoms. If I had a dream about a 16th century tailoring > technique, based upon the patterns of my dreams, my guess would be > that I > was dreaming about a re-enactment that I'd be running into in the > future. > > Lisa > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 13:07:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA9I7t2q012564 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:07:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9I7NcC003673; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:07:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9I7Hl2029959; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:07:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9I7Dl3029906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:07:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA9I6RPX010514 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:06:27 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:06:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FAE8285.3010202@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:08:05 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of the future... (was RE:Psychic Archeology) References: <008301c3a6a7$b08807c0$ccf08a90@clarke> <000b01c3a6db$3ade4640$ae28a5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <000b01c3a6db$3ade4640$ae28a5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would love to have more, real data for my chosen time periods. Although the puzzle is part of what I enjoy, I also like *making* the things, and seeing people wear them. Being able to make them would still remain after a time-travel expedition to the past. I envision someone with a miniturized video camera setup, just walking around a large city during daylight. That would expand our knowledge so much, and is so simple! They wouldn't have to speak the language, know a trade, or convince people to show them how to do this thing or the other. It would be harder to get admittance to the Court for the various noble fashions and habits, of course. Not sure how to arrange that (for whatever era), unless they were having a tourney or something outside. Although, heck, if we're postulating time travel, why not invisibility? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Instead of starting by drawing a random sample and then testing for the occurrence of a rare event, we select rare events that happened and find ourselves marveling at their nonrandomness. This is like the archer who first shoots an arrow and then draws the target circle around it." -- Ruma Falk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 15:02:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA9K2N2q014705 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:02:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9K1gcC010014; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:01:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9K1cm5017237; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:01:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from aardvark (aardvark.edurostream.com [12.17.11.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9K1Ym5017203 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:01:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from D7W6QR21 (ddu138-27.xecu.net [216.127.138.27]) by aardvark.edurostream.com; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:02:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c3a6fc$43149e60$1b8a7fd8@D7W6QR21> From: "Sue" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:01:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] ebay heads up X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a heads up for a great 1920's wedding gown #2869278491 on ebay Cordially, Sue Shatto 401 Fairview Ave Frederick, MD 21701 http:\\www.VictorianMillinery.com 301-694-8950 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 16:39:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA9LdS2q016904 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:39:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9LcdcC014450; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:38:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9LcaDv027291; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:38:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.126]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9LcYDv027278 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:38:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-33qtkem.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.209.214] helo=pavilion) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AIxGS-0004U5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:38:33 -0800 Message-ID: <001101c3a70a$92eca640$d6d1aec7@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <008301c3a6a7$b08807c0$ccf08a90@clarke><000b01c3a6db$3ade4640$ae28a5d1@pavilion> <3FAE8285.3010202@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of the future... (wasRE:Psychic Archeology) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:43:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Or a really fun career would be a time traveling costume instructor!!! You could be a college professor and take your classroom on an actual costume tour of history like Scrooge I guess. That would just be the best, yes, and of course we'd be invisible, then back to the classroom to apply these techniques!! Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of the future... (wasRE:Psychic Archeology) > I would love to have more, real data for my chosen time periods. > Although the puzzle is part of what I enjoy, I also like *making* the > things, and seeing people wear them. Being able to make them would > still remain after a time-travel expedition to the past. > > I envision someone with a miniturized video camera setup, just walking > around a large city during daylight. That would expand our knowledge so > much, and is so simple! They wouldn't have to speak the language, know > a trade, or convince people to show them how to do this thing or the other. > > It would be harder to get admittance to the Court for the various noble > fashions and habits, of course. Not sure how to arrange that (for > whatever era), unless they were having a tourney or something outside. > > Although, heck, if we're postulating time travel, why not invisibility? > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > "Instead of starting by drawing a random sample and then testing for the > occurrence of a rare event, we select rare events that happened and find > ourselves marveling at their nonrandomness. This is like the archer who > first shoots an arrow and then draws the target circle around it." -- > Ruma Falk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 17:43:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA9Mha2q018533 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:43:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9MgqcC017730; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:42:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9MgoFu022348; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:42:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9MglFu022320 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:42:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-65.58.147.181.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([65.58.147.181] helo=4gxif) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AIyGY-0005Pd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:42:42 -0500 Message-ID: <005c01c3a712$cda81320$b5933a41@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031109.091242.1132.0.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: Re:making shoe patterns was Re: [h-cost] Re: PsychicArchaeology-OT - Are u Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:42:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Arlys wrote: > Let's see, obligatory costume content: what exactly is a blanchet? I was > reading _The Goodman of Paris_ and happened upon it. > One early usage was for white woolen cloth, which eventually came into English as "blanket". More context from "Menagier", please; since it could also mean blanching in a cooking context, or just simple whitening, for linens, etc. in one of the other household recipes. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 18:09:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA9N9V2q018699 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 18:09:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9N8ccC018882; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:08:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9N8avY002010; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:08:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9N8YvY001995 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:08:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.100] (pm7-100.eos.net [205.133.149.100]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA9N8V1I013291 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 18:08:32 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:10:05 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311091902.hA9J28La022765@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: time travel X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Regarding this quantum theory/alternate dimensions stuff, I think that's the basis of Michael Crichton's stupid book "Timeline." The characters are always hopping off into the past -- but it isn't really INTO the past, it's into an alternate dimension that's exactly like the past. And then they come back, but they aren't really coming back, they're coming to a ... you get the picture. Sometimes fiction can really help explain an esoteric theory, but that book just had me saying "Well, how CONVENIENT!" Very convenient, I mean, that the people managed to "come back" because someone in some other identical dimension was sending someone forward, because all the dimensions are related. Except that if you travel too many times, terrible things begin to happen to you. Again, how convenient! (for the plot, that is) Obligatory costume content: as I said on this list before, the worst part was that the female character had to wear a wig back to the past, so that she didn't get arrested and killed for impersonating a boy. Then at one point she takes her wig off, and is apparently considered a boy -- although she never changes clothes, so I suppose she is still in a dress, unless she was in boy's clothes and a girl's wig at the beginning. Sigh. Not to mention that she's a rock climber, and she climbs everything in sight. The movie comes out in the US later this month, we can always hope for an improvement, as unlikely as it is. Here's a hint: The villain is "the Archpriest." When a story has a priest as the villain, I know the writer has hit rock bottom, idea-wise. So if it's an ARCHpriest, well, you know he's got to be bad!!!! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 18:55:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA9Nta2q018857 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 18:55:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9NsjcC021032; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:54:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9NshvY020504; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:54:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA9NsfvY020488 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:54:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip39.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.39]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 993366DBC1 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:54:39 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:54:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century resources Message-ID: <3FAE634A.13036.3E230851@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FAC61BF.6D3DA32B@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I know the gal with the vertandsable website (cf Renaissance Tailor > group). She's a completely amazing person and artisan (in other > words, I wanna be her when I grow up!). I'd imagine that the list > would be a good mix of the practical and the theoretical and the > historical (if that makes any sense!) --sue She's a buddy of mine and her primary interest is research into the tailoring methods of that time period. The list, of course, isn't just her. Her site http://www.vertetsable.com/ is also very helpful. You can see some of the stuff she's already found. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 19:27:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAA0RO2q019595 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:27:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA0QWcC022511; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:26:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA0QTSP002844; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:26:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA0QQSP002823 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:26:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip39.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.39]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDA3F6FA15 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:26:24 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:26:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Typing people by background, clothes, and stuff... Message-ID: <3FAE6ABB.19961.3E401B8E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <000d01c3a4d1$2d1273d0$6501a8c0@SG01> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > My friends in Europe tell me that the shoes are a dead give-away. As > soon as they see Nikes they know where you're from. ;-D Which > explains why my hubby and I usually fool them. All his shoes are > made in England, and most of mine (that aren't hand made by people > like you guys) from Germany. But I speak French and a little > Italian. We're very confusing. ;-D Ah, that may be one of the reasons why I was thought to be "local." I had bought a pair of "walking shoes" made by Clark, which is also an English chain. And I dressed in conservative colors, rather than in bright colors. (The only English person I've ever met who wears bright colors is our own dear Teddy. But then, he's a law unto himself!) > Ah, but the dead give-away for THEM is that, although their tees and > jeans have English written all over them, most of the time it's wrong, > doesn't make sense (or only makes sense to them).... especially true > in Italy, where we saw kids wearing stuff that was hilarious! In Japan this is called "Japlish." ;) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 19:44:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAA0i12q019979 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:44:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA0hLcC023575; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:43:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA0hKSP009342; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:43:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA0hGSQ009300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:43:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAA0gTPX012420 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:42:29 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:42:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FAEDF57.3030101@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:44:07 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Subject: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls not Norris' fault X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Folks, In the continuing search for documentation, I have found that the half-globe calls (call 'em 1340 or so) are not precisely Norris' fault. Careful staring at his illustrations doesn't show nets-over-buns under veils, it's probably just braids. So the next question is: is there an author who invented the rigid structures at the side of the head (not the cylinders) or who interpreted Norris to have netting? I'm going to be sifting through my costume books, but if y'all have any bright ideas, I'd like to hear about them. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 23:11:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAA4Bj2q023804 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:11:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA4AZcC005135; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:10:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA4ATvf009945; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA4ARvf009918 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:10:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-34-077.jps.net ([209.165.34.77]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AJ3Ni-0000Xo-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:10:27 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:30:37 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] where'd it go??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:51 PM -0500 11/7/03, Sarah Goodman-Rodriguez wrote: >Oh, that was polyeurethane tubing (I know I butchered the spelling on >that...), 3/4" diameter, I think. It was a while ago, so I can't >remember exactly what I used. It should be in the plumbing section of >Home Depot, if I remember correctly. :) Thank you!! that's an answer I was looking for a while back. People were suggesting I try plastic tubing in my new farthingale (because it's lightweight), but no one could tell me "made of what kind of plastic?" or "what size?" Now I know what to look for. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 9 23:12:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAA4CE2q023807 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:12:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA4B8cC005185; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:11:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA4B8vf010273; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:11:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA4ATvf009942 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-34-077.jps.net ([209.165.34.77]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AJ3Nk-0000Xo-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:10:28 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:39:33 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Time travel as research tool of the future... (was RE: Psychic Archeology) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:02 PM -0500 11/7/03, Sarah Goodman-Rodriguez wrote: >Anyhoo... I would have to agree with Kass on this. I think time >travel would kill the fun in costuming for me. Sure, it would be >interesting to answer all those pressing questions we debate about >constantly, but to me, time travel would feel like cheating. Hm. Actually, I disagree that it would be "cheating" -- and here's why. Think of an anthropologist: they are studying a culture that still _has_ living, breathing, people in it, who are perfectly capable of discussing their culture in great detail and answering a lot of the kinds of questions we would love to ask our medieval, renaissance, Victorian et cetera forebears. Does this make their research easy or answer all the questions the researcher might have? Nope. Even if we _could_ answer a lot of our questions by "peeking" into the past with time travel, I think we'd just come up with more questions! -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 00:32:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAA5Wm2q023958 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:32:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA5W1cC009753; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 22:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA5VvQx018904; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 22:31:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA5VsR0018886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 22:31:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAA5d4fX021116 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:39:05 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Typing people by background, clothes, and stuff... Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:32:45 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <3FAE6ABB.19961.3E401B8E@localhost> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I lived in Germany we had a saying: "If you are the only person in a group that doesn't speak German, someone will come up and ask directions - in German". I asked a friend from Belgium why this was (same thing happened to me there, also in German though I don't look German). She said it was because Americans seem so much more approachable. We frequently have a smile on our faces and seem more relaxed and happy. She contrasted this with her Belgian, French, and German relatives who tend to be quite formal and forbidding unless they are three sheets to the wind. She found this to be an endearing quality about us. Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of kat@grendal.rain.com > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 4:27 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Typing people by background, clothes, and stuff... > > > > > My friends in Europe tell me that the shoes are a dead give-away. As > > soon as they see Nikes they know where you're from. ;-D Which > > explains why my hubby and I usually fool them. All his shoes are > > made in England, and most of mine (that aren't hand made by people > > like you guys) from Germany. But I speak French and a little > > Italian. We're very confusing. ;-D > > Ah, that may be one of the reasons why I was thought to be "local." I > had bought a pair of "walking shoes" made by Clark, which is also an > English chain. And I dressed in conservative colors, rather than in > bright colors. (The only English person I've ever met who wears > bright colors is our own dear Teddy. But then, he's a law unto > himself!) > > > Ah, but the dead give-away for THEM is that, although their tees and > > jeans have English written all over them, most of the time it's wrong, > > doesn't make sense (or only makes sense to them).... especially true > > in Italy, where we saw kids wearing stuff that was hilarious! > > In Japan this is called "Japlish." ;) > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 02:31:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAA7Vx2q002846 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:31:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA7ShcC014970; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:28:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA7SeVf008676; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:28:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA7ScVf008658 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:28:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-33-183.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.33.183]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA7S8Vt018559 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:28:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031109232415.05241470@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:25:41 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of the future... In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Anyhoo... I would have to agree with Kass on this. I think time > > travel would kill the fun in costuming for me. Sure, it would be > > interesting to answer all those pressing questions we debate about > > constantly, but to me, time travel would feel like cheating. If I could time travel, I'd never have to sew again - I'd just go back and have the stuff made and bring it back. The sewing part is a means to an end, as far as I'm concerned. The real fun is wearing the stuff, and doing living history in it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 06:16:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAABGt2q002900 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 06:16:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAABGGcC024844; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 04:16:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAABGDlD004054; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 04:16:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from gizmo12ps.email.bigpond.com (gizmo12ps.email.bigpond.com [144.140.71.22] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAABGAlD004007 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 04:16:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9435 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2003 11:16:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarke) (144.135.25.72) by gizmo12ps.email.bigpond.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2003 11:16:18 -0000 Received: from 144.139.221.169 ([144.139.221.169]) by psmam02.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 74/5950741); 10 Nov 2003 21:15:58 Message-ID: <002b01c3a77c$033564c0$a9dd8b90@clarke> From: "Purple Elephant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FAEDF57.3030101@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls not Norris' fault Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:15:48 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 11:44 AM Subject: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls not Norris' fault Hi Folks, In the continuing search for documentation, I have found that the half-globe calls (call 'em 1340 or so) are not precisely Norris' fault. Careful staring at his illustrations doesn't show nets-over-buns under veils, it's probably just braids. So the next question is: is there an author who invented the rigid structures at the side of the head (not the cylinders) or who interpreted Norris to have netting? I'm going to be sifting through my costume books, but if y'all have any bright ideas, I'd like to hear about them. ------- Well Viollet Le Duc cops a lot of the blame for the serious misinterpretation of the bliaut. Perhaps he did similar work on headdresses. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 06:35:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAABZw2q003285 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 06:35:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAABZOcC025654; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 04:35:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAABZNlD010916; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 04:35:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAABZKlE010881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 04:35:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAABYXPX014162 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 06:34:33 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 06:34:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FAF782B.90902@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 06:36:11 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls not Norris' fault References: <3FAEDF57.3030101@thibault.org> <002b01c3a77c$033564c0$a9dd8b90@clarke> In-Reply-To: <002b01c3a77c$033564c0$a9dd8b90@clarke> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Purple Elephant wrote: > Well Viollet Le Duc cops a lot of the blame for the serious > misinterpretation of the bliaut. Perhaps he did similar work on > headdresses. Aha, yes, could be. I am planning a saunter through 391 at the local library. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 08:34:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAADYo2q005752 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:34:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAADYBcC003102; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 06:34:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAADY95V029144; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 06:34:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAADY75V029107 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 06:34:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from www20.ureach.com (www20.ureach.com [172.16.2.48]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA14474 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:34:06 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA31633; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:34:06 -0500 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:34:06 -0500 Message-Id: <200311101334.IAA31633@www20.ureach.com> Received: from [66.156.110.148] by www20.ureach.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:34:06 GMT To: "Cynthia Virtue" From: Teena Kessinger Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Girl with a Pearl Earring Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-vsuite-type: e X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a copy of this painting which was done by a painter who very accurately reproduces renaissance works (signed as a copy of course) and I have read this book so I am happy to hear they are making it into a movie. ---- On Tue, 04 Nov 2003, Cynthia Virtue (cvirtue+dated+1083489887.c64bbf@thibault.org) wrote: > >> http://www.girlwithapearlearringmovie.com/ > I have a 1.5' x 2' poster of this painting > . It looks like a dished > brass earring to me, not a [marine] pearl. But if that's what Vermeer > called it, then I must be mistaken. The art historians think it's an > actual pearl: > > http://girl-with-a-pearl-earring.20m.com/Girl_with_a_Pearl%20Earring_The_Pearl.htm > > cv > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 10:41:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAAFff2q008543 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:41:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAFeFcC011933; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:40:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAFe7D3008273; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:40:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAAFdwD3008024 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OnGoY8AxfqgZlyEkX5E5btc=">; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:39:42 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JEMTT4GL; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:39:42 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:24:47 -0800 Message-ID: <20031110.073916.1436.5.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,6-9,11-33 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] blanchet (was: making shoes) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's the excerpt. The Goodman is referring to proper attire: "See that you be honestly clad, without new devices and too much frippery, or too little. And before you leave your chamber or house, see you first that the collar of your shift, and your blanchet, your robe or your surcoat, straggle not forth one upon the other...." (Powers, 37, Folio edition). Arlys On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:42:33 -0500 "Helen Pinto" writes: > Arlys wrote: > > Let's see, obligatory costume content: what exactly is a blanchet? > I was > > reading _The Goodman of Paris_ and happened upon it. > > > > One early usage was for white woolen cloth, which eventually came > into > English as "blanket". > More context from "Menagier", please; since it could also mean > blanching in > a cooking context, or just simple whitening, for linens, etc. in one > of the > other household recipes. > -Helen/Aidan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 11:04:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAAG4v2q009156 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:04:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAG4DcC014423; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:04:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAG4BdJ027670; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:04:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAG4AdJ027643 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:04:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hAAG49ON011228 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:04:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.72] (tnt-1-136.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.72]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAAG47h7011160 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:04:07 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031109232415.05241470@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20031109232415.05241470@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:00:43 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of the future... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:25 PM -0800 11/9/03, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >> > Anyhoo... I would have to agree with Kass on this. I think time >>> travel would kill the fun in costuming for me. Sure, it would be >>> interesting to answer all those pressing questions we debate about >>> constantly, but to me, time travel would feel like cheating. > >If I could time travel, I'd never have to sew again - I'd just go >back and have the stuff made and bring it back. The sewing part is >a means to an end, as far as I'm concerned. The real fun is wearing >the stuff, and doing living history in it. Interesting plot possibilities ... the past as the ultimate "third-world labor market". Hmmmmm. Nah, too many writing projects already stacked up. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 11:16:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAAGGb2q009482 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:16:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAGFqcC015776; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:15:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAGFndJ007628; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:15:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f4.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAGFidJ007477 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:15:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:15:39 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.78 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:15:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.78] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:15:39 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2003 16:15:39.0562 (UTC) FILETIME=[E1C348A0:01C3A7A5] Subject: [h-cost] Re:Time Travel X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: Gail & Scott Finke >Regarding this quantum theory/alternate dimensions stuff, I think that's >the >basis of Michael Crichton's stupid book "Timeline." The characters are >always hopping off into the past -- but it isn't really INTO the past, it's >into an alternate dimension that's exactly like the past.... While coincidentally, 500 years earlier someone from a universe identical to the modern world there came into THEIR universe and made all the necessary changes to their world so that it would look like there had been time travel. Very convenient. I loved the book, although it is undeniably flawed in some minor areas (like clothing), I'm sorry to say that the upcoming movie doesn't look like it's done the book any favors though in the changes they have made (and the clothes are pretty much hollywood medievaloid). Now that I have no expectations for the movieactually being accurate, I can go see it and try to have a good time with it for what it is. >Obligatory costume content: as I said on this list before, the worst part >was that the female character had to wear a wig back to the past, so that >she didn't get arrested and killed for impersonating a boy. Then at one >point she takes her wig off, and is apparently considered a boy -- although >she never changes clothes, so I suppose she is still in a dress, unless she >was in boy's clothes and a girl's wig at the beginning. Well, she -did- cut off all her hair. And although you are correct, they don't mention her changing her clothes, since she was with two male characters, one of whom has been previously established to actually know what he's doing I did sort of assume that they made whatever adjustments to her attire would get her to "pass" without a lot of scrutiny. (like I said, the book has some flaws) >Sigh. Not to mention that she's a rock climber, and she climbs everything >in sight. The movie comes out in the US later this month, we can always >hope for an improvement, >as unlikely as it is. No, actually we can't. While it HAS happened in the past that Hollywood has actually improved upon a book when it was made into a movie, the odds of this actually occuring for any given movie are so small as to be insignificant. Therefore, if you are -looking- for accuracy, don't see this movie. The costuming in "A Knight's Tale" looked better. >Here's a hint: The villain is "the Archpriest." When a story has a priest >as >the villain, I know the writer has hit rock bottom, idea-wise. So if it's >an >ARCHpriest, well, you know he's got to be bad!!!! Um, I know this is going to be a little surprising, but Arnaut de Cervole, aka the "Archpriest" (i.e. "A chief priest; spec. in early times, as still in the Italian Church, a kind of vicar to the bishop, acting also as dean of the cathedral" - OED2d ed.) was a real person historically. Marc _________________________________________________________________ >From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 11:53:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAAGrr2q010265 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:53:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAGqocC020347; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:52:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAGqidJ012558; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:52:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAGqedJ012478 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:52:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104036.uvm.edu [132.198.104.36]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAGqdg2025268 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:52:39 -0500 Message-ID: <3FAFC259.4090605@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:52:41 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Time Travel References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc Carlson wrote: > I loved the book, although it is undeniably flawed in some minor areas > (like clothing), I'm sorry to say that the upcoming movie doesn't look > like it's done the book any favors though in the changes they have made > (and the clothes are pretty much hollywood medievaloid). The book was fun, though, given the expectation that it was written with a screenplay in mind, it was sometimes hard to read without every 30 pages thinking "oh that action scene will make it to the movie" ... "yeah, that action scene was definitely written with a movie in mind." > No, actually we can't. While it HAS happened in the past that > Hollywood has actually improved upon a book when it was made into a > movie, the odds of this actually occuring for any given movie are so > small as to be insignificant. Therefore, if you are -looking- for > accuracy, don't see this movie. The costuming in "A Knight's Tale" > looked better. And for some fun, try: Aberth, John. A Knight at the Movies: Medieval History on Film (Routledge, 2003) Chapter titles are: The Holy Grail of Hollywood King Arthur Films Lights! Camera! Pillage! Viking Films God (and the Studio) Wills It! Crusade Films Splendid in Spandex Robin Hood Films Welcome to the Apocalypse Black Death Films Movies and the Maid Joan of Arc Films - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 13:03:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAAI3g2q010531 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:03:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAI2vcC028758; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:02:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAI2pfw016850; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:02:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAAI2lfw016801 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:02:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 98138 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Nov 2003 18:02:40 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.306024 secs); 10 Nov 2003 18:02:40 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.306024 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2003 18:02:40 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:02:41 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20031110130037.G97551-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan Talk X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Everyone, FYI: I (Drea Leed) am giving a talk on Elizabeth and Elizabethan fashion tonight, at 7 pm the Tiffin-Seneca Library. (77 Jefferson St., Tiffin, OH). It's about an hour south of Toledo, and two hours north of Dayton. Pretty short notice, and I don't know how many of you are a) interested and b) in the area... but I thought I'd post the info, in case anyone was. Thanks, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 14:03:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAAJ3S2q010873 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:03:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAJ2JcC005830; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:02:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAJ2FsX013225; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:02:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAJ0msX011832 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:00:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AJHHL-000EmO-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:00:47 +0000 Message-ID: <+FDthtGYPpr$IwzT@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:22:00 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) References: <000d01c3a4d1$2d1273d0$6501a8c0@SG01> In-Reply-To: <000d01c3a4d1$2d1273d0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace T. Knauf wrote >I thought the same thing when I read Robin's earlier comment about a >group of people looking typically American because they were of varying >physical types. Even ignoring Commonwealth immigration, we British are a >pretty mixed lot. My mother (born 1912) has a fair complexion and her >hair used to be auburn; her sister is very dark, and their brother >started with fair hair which turned brown later. She told me recently >that their three cousins had the same three colourings. > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > >[Sg] Thanks for sharing that...it struck me as a little odd too. Anyone who >has spent some time in Europe knows that it is pretty mixed. Even in the >70's living in Germany there were considerable variations in folks living >there. (I remember a very dark African complete with facial tattoos >approaching me in Hamburg and saying how beautiful I was....I was thirteen >and scared to death! I have often been mistaken for being mulatto [in spite >of extremely pale skin and very Aryan features-except for my nose]) I mean >after all Europe is a lot closer to Africa and the middle east! Now Iceland >and Greenland might be a different story! What I do remember very clearly >is that we were easily identifiable as American because of the way we >dressed. Used to be that I could pick out European tourists here by the way >they dressed and did their hair. Now with the way kids are dressing and >doing their hair I am often mistaken. > >Sg Interesting example - have any of you been watching the Rugby World Cup (I appreciate rugby is not much followed in the US). Both in looks and in names, its interesting to see which teams are pretty homogenous and which are much more varied. I think the Irish and Welsh in particular have much more incidence of red/light brown hair and fair skin than the English and Australians, and its amazing how you can spot an Afrikaaner in the SA team, as against what you might call "English white" South Africans. (As in the rest of this thread, nothing derogatory or political intended). But I suppose the point is, it's one thing to look at population statistics, and quite another to try to categorise a single person by their ancestry. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 14:03:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAAJ3e2q010879 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:03:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAJ2scC005910; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:02:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAJ2qsX013832; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:02:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAJ0msX011834 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:00:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AJHHL-000EmM-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:00:47 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:15:06 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Facial and body types & costume (was: hair) References: <00c701c3a383$729d4aa0$c5ce36cb@clarke> <3FA90CA8.5943.2948A09A@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FA90CA8.5943.2948A09A@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com wrote > >> If the Scottish is Lowland Scottish you might be more English than >> you think *grin* Or it could just be that standard genetic variation >> within any one regional group is sufficent to produce people who look >> fabulous in a style and people who look terrible in it. In which case >> we're right back to 'I would have looked terrible in it in period'. >> Claire > >I know that the originator of my last name (Russell) is English, but >that person emigrated (rather hurredly, the family records indicate >due to some major religious differences) to Scotland during Mary I's >reign. (Daddy and big brother fared much better. Look at the Duke of >Bedford's family to see what the primary line did.) However, they >were part of the Highland clearances. (Most of them were either >weavers or Presbyterian ministers.) > >Mom's family came from a town at the head of Loch Tay called Killin >(which was also the family's last name). I don't know if that is >considered Highland or Lowland. (Jean, do you know?) > Killin is definitely in the Highlands. It's a gorgeous place - very touristy now, I'm afraid, but the river runs into the loch through rapids known as the Falls of Dochart, its incredibly pretty, you're bound to find a picture of it. (Edinburgh University has an outdoor sports centre on Loch Tay, and Killin is the nearest place to buy postcards and chocolate!) Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 14:44:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAAJiC2q011048 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:44:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAJh1cC010558; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAJgssX021361; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:42:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAJgpsX021311 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:42:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AJHw3-000Hnx-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:42:51 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:41:48 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: time travel References: <200311091902.hA9J28La022765@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, why worry? We saw the trailer for Timeline when we went to The Matrix: Revolution. Switch off brain and critical faculties, watch Keanu. If scriptwriters worried about logical inconsistencies, there'd be no films! I'm seriously considering getting a bunch of re-enactor friends together for a Tuesday afternoon showing of Timeline and just ripping it to bits! Jean Gail & Scott Finke wrote > >Regarding this quantum theory/alternate dimensions stuff, I think that's the >basis of Michael Crichton's stupid book "Timeline." The characters are >always hopping off into the past -- but it isn't really INTO the past, it's >into an alternate dimension that's exactly like the past. And then they come >back, but they aren't really coming back, they're coming to a ... you get >the picture. Sometimes fiction can really help explain an esoteric theory, >but that book just had me saying "Well, how CONVENIENT!" Very convenient, I >mean, that the people managed to "come back" because someone in some other >identical dimension was sending someone forward, because all the dimensions >are related. Except that if you travel too many times, terrible things begin >to happen to you. Again, how convenient! (for the plot, that is) > >Obligatory costume content: as I said on this list before, the worst part >was that the female character had to wear a wig back to the past, so that >she didn't get arrested and killed for impersonating a boy. Then at one >point she takes her wig off, and is apparently considered a boy -- although >she never changes clothes, so I suppose she is still in a dress, unless she >was in boy's clothes and a girl's wig at the beginning. Sigh. Not to mention >that she's a rock climber, and she climbs everything in sight. The movie >comes out in the US later this month, we can always hope for an improvement, >as unlikely as it is. > >Here's a hint: The villain is "the Archpriest." When a story has a priest as >the villain, I know the writer has hit rock bottom, idea-wise. So if it's an >ARCHpriest, well, you know he's got to be bad!!!! > >Gail Finke > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 14:55:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAAJtS2q011086 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:55:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAJlUcC011168; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:47:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAJlTsX025739; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:47:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40912.mail.yahoo.com (web40912.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.209]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAAJlQsX025620 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:47:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031110194719.59522.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40912.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:47:19 PST Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:47:19 -0800 (PST) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311101901.hAAJ1jsZ012811@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Time travel as research tool of the X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather wrote: > Interesting plot possibilities ... the past as the > ultimate > "third-world labor market". Hmmmmm. Nah, too many > writing projects > already stacked up. Forgive me if someone already brought this up -- but does all this talk of time travel and material culture remind anyone else of Kage Baker's fabulous "Company" series of novels and short stories? The idea, in a nutshell, is that in the 24th century a company goes back in time to select mortals in various times and places to become immortal and work for the Company as time progresses forward. They are assigned jobs like secreting away great art treasures, plants that will one day be extinct, etc. so that later, at a point maximally advantageous to The Company, these items or bits of lost knowledge can be 'discovered'. I love these books... -Tasha __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 16:44:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAALi72q013426 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:44:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAALgNcC024778; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAALgHR0016683; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:42:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav4.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAALgFR0016547 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:42:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:42:10 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav4.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:42:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <008301c3a6a7$b08807c0$ccf08a90@clarke><000b01c3a6db$3ade4640$ae28a5d1@pavilion> <3FAE8285.3010202@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of the future... (wasRE:Psychic Archeology) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:41:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2003 21:42:10.0455 (UTC) FILETIME=[7ED85270:01C3A7D3] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It would be harder to get admittance to the Court for the various noble > fashions and habits, of course. Yes, but we already have more remaining portraits or garments from them than people on the street... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 16:45:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAALjR2q013462 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:45:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAALiMcC025032; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:44:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAALiIR0018652; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:44:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav35.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAALiAR0018413 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:44:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:44:05 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav35.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:44:04 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c3a6fc$43149e60$1b8a7fd8@D7W6QR21> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ebay heads up Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:43:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2003 21:44:05.0009 (UTC) FILETIME=[C31FE010:01C3A7D3] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, it is beautiful, and it would fit me, for once. But... *sigh*... 350 USD... maybe when I'm really rich... if that ever happens :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 3:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] ebay heads up > Just a heads up for a great 1920's wedding gown #2869278491 on ebay > Cordially, > Sue Shatto > 401 Fairview Ave > Frederick, MD 21701 > http:\\www.VictorianMillinery.com > 301-694-8950 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 16:56:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAALus2q013758 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:56:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAALtqcC026375; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAALtoJQ029135; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:55:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav31.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAALtlJQ029013 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:55:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:55:40 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav31.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:55:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Timeline Re: [h-cost] Re:Time Travel Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:49:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2003 21:55:40.0795 (UTC) FILETIME=[61D864B0:01C3A7D5] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Now that I have no > expectations for the movieactually being accurate, I can go see it and try > to have a good time with it for what it is. I'm not expecting much either, but I'll go to try to spot some people I know who are.. probably somewhere in the background, blurry and buried under the costumes and etc. It'll be fun trying to find them. They recruited from the SCA and other medieval groups here in Quebec. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 17:28:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAAMSG2q014584 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:28:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAMRRcC000292; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:27:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAMRIJQ029309; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:27:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAAMR7JQ029052 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:27:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.242.180] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFE7258800B2; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:23:35 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:30:22 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: [h-cost] Re: time travel Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Regarding this quantum theory/alternate dimensions stuff, I think that's the >basis of Michael Crichton's stupid book "Timeline." The characters are >always hopping off into the past -- but it isn't really INTO the past, it's >into an alternate dimension that's exactly like the past. >Here's a hint: The villain is "the Archpriest." When a story has a priest as >the villain, I know the writer has hit rock bottom, idea-wise. So if it's an >ARCHpriest, well, you know he's got to be bad!!!! > >Gail Finke Have a friend who worked on this film. Here's his Short Version: 1. VERY fun. 2. NOT historical, it's Pretend Historical 3. Final version probably does not make sense 4. Lot of things blow up, therefore 5. This movie is not for US on this list, it's for: 6. The people who wear baggy shorts, tee shirts, saw Knight's Tale twice, and thought the fuzzy hair scrunchies were "like, sooooooooooo, like, Medieval" Rima I'll wait for Girl With A Pearl Earring..... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 18:19:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAANJ92q015784 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:19:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAANIJcC005711; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAANIEwS016738; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:18:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAANIAwS016655 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:18:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id RAA17457 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:18:09 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of the future...(wasRE:Psychic Archeology) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:18:09 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have a go at Connie Willis' "The Domesday Book" Without giving too much away, the time traveller in this book has trouble at first with her implanted translator, due to the fact that it was based on the speech of the upper classes(and her own knowledge based on the writings of Chaucer and others) and despite the fact that she carded, wove and dyed her clothing, it was still too fine for most classes of folk. Better than 99% of the so-called time-travel books out there where most of time time-travelers and "natives" can understand each other perfectly, despite a 400 or more year language gap. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 18:31:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAANVY2q016105 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:31:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAANUocC007027; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:30:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAANUlwS027566; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:30:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAANUewS027464 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:30:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.177]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id hAANxkV10804 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:59:47 +1100 Message-ID: <016701c3a7e2$f532cae0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200311091902.hA9J28La022765@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: time travel Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:30:50 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jean wrote: > I'm seriously considering getting a bunch of re-enactor > friends together for a Tuesday afternoon showing of Timeline and just > ripping it to bits! > Some of my friends do that, but go to dinner beforehand and have a few drinks... Apparently they were sooo close to being thrown out of Leo's The Man in the Iron Mask when the mask was taken off after so many years, and the face underneath was fresh as a daisy! You can imagine the fellow theatre-goers horror at the crucial, dramatic time of a movie being interrupted by hoots of slightly (?) inebriated laughter! Unfortunately, it's a little hard for me to get there, as it's during the week, I live over an hour from the city centre and I have the boys to look after. My MIL is now retired, so it's now a bit easier for me to go out. Hoooray! Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 19:06:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB06U2q016990 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:06:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB05LcC010140; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:05:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB05Hdf025730; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:05:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB05Edf025679 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:05:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from chris (dialup-a2-155.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.248.155]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id C2EA841AEF for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:05:09 +1100 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:07:08 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Time travel oops X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Then there was the comic book about the man who built a time machine in his 7th floor apartment and went back in time - - - -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 21:25:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB2PC2q020745 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:25:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB2OWcC020581; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:24:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB2ORCP018772; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:24:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB2OOCQ018733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:24:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAB2OcUZ029416 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:24:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAB2OcUO029412 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:24:38 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Time travel as research tool of the Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:24:38 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031110194719.59522.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031110194719.59522.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311102124.38447.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 10 November 2003 02:47 pm, Tasha McGann wrote: > Forgive me if someone already brought this up -- but > does all this talk of time travel and material culture > remind anyone else of Kage Baker's fabulous "Company" > series of novels and short stories? There are short stories? I love the novels--I'm still waiting for the fourth novel, "The Graveyard Game" to come out in mass market paperback. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 21:28:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB2Se2q020866 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:28:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB2S6cC020905; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:28:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB2S6CP020828; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:28:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB2S1CP020709 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4908C425CE for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:33:04 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FB049D0.4040505@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:30:40 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] report: dyeing linen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I finally got enough time to play with that bolt of cotton-linen I picked up the week before Halloween. It's a light, bright green, the color of pistachio ice cream. I decided to try for something else. I started by running it through the washer twice on hot as suggested, then giving it a bath in RIT color remover for 40 minutes. I was shocked when the bath turned it bright purple, but as the water cooled it subdued to a hot pink color. When I rinsed the fabric it reverted back to its pistachio green color. I've got it in the washing machine now for a heavy rinse. I suspect it will still be green when that's done. It's disappointing, but I'm sure I can find a period shade of green to put over it. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 21:36:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB2a82q021080 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:36:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB2ZScC021300; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:35:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB2ZQCP025175; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:35:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB2ZNCP025159 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:35:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AJONG-0006tB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:35:23 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] report: dyeing linen Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:35:36 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01c3a7fc$7d9e9d50$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <3FB049D0.4040505@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, how strange....I vote for "Goose Turd Green" (one of my personal faves!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 22:28:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB3SV2q022491 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:28:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3RbcC024678; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:27:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3RYga022439; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:27:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3RVga022410 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:27:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.217.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.217] helo=4gxif) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AJPBi-00002g-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:27:31 -0500 Message-ID: <009601c3a803$cb26ed00$d9f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031110.073916.1436.5.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] blanchet (was: making shoes) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:27:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Arlys wrote: > > Let's see, obligatory costume content: what exactly is a blanchet? > > I was reading _The Goodman of Paris_ and happened upon it. Aidan wrote: > > One early usage was for white woolen cloth, which eventually > > came into English as "blanket". > > More context from "Menagier", please; since it could also mean > > blanching in a cooking context, or just simple whitening, for linens, > > etc. in one of the other household recipes. Arlys wrote: > Here's the excerpt. The Goodman is referring to proper attire: > "See that you be honestly clad, without new devices and too much > frippery, or too little. And before you leave your chamber or house, see > you first that the collar of your shift, and your blanchet, your robe or > your surcoat, straggle not forth one upon the other...." (Powers, 37, > Folio edition). The context would certainly make it an item of clothing, probably women's clothing, since it's the new wife's that he's referring to. So I dug out my copy of "Menagier" and there are two additional references, one to a white woolen cloth to be laid on the bed to attract and remove fleas (p.115, Eileen Power trans., section on housekeeping), but the second one is the meaningful one. In the notes, p.208, in a note written by Jerome Pichon, he defines the blanchet as a short garment of white cloth or flannel worn over the chemise. A guess here, but maybe it's some sort of a neckline filler, for modesty or warmth, like when a wimple isn't being worn? Any other guesses? -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 22:31:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB3Vc2q022577 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:31:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3UscC024909; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:30:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3Urga024182; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:30:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3Uoga024115 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:30:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m124.in-tch.com [216.166.191.124]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAB39hc26686 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:09:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FB0587F.B4CC324@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:33:19 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel oops References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Huh? --sue Christopher Ballis wrote: > > Then there was the comic book about the man who built a time machine in his > 7th floor apartment and went back in time - - - > > -C. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 22:35:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB3Zq2q022697 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:35:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3UCcC024812; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:30:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3UBga023781; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:30:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3U6ga023694 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:30:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m124.in-tch.com [216.166.191.124]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAB38wc26333 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:08:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FB05852.6CF77DF1@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:32:34 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of thefuture...(wasRE:Psychic Archeology) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I liked that one. I reread it every winter. --sue Cindy Abel wrote: > > Have a go at Connie Willis' "The Domesday Book" Without giving too much > away, the time traveller in this book has trouble at first with her > implanted translator, due to the fact that it was based on the speech of the > upper classes(and her own knowledge based on the writings of Chaucer and > others) and despite the fact that she carded, wove and dyed her clothing, it > was still too fine for most classes of folk. > > Better than 99% of the so-called time-travel books out there where most of > time time-travelers and "natives" can understand each other perfectly, > despite a 400 or more year language gap. > > Cindy Abel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 22:54:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB3sd2q023498 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:54:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3s0cC026584; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3rxga006463; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:53:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3ruga006410 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:53:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1a4.1c4e3954 (4320) for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:53:49 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1a4.1c4e3954.2ce1b74d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:53:49 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] report: dyeing linen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/10/2003 9:29:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > I was shocked when the bath turned it bright purple, but as the water > cooled it subdued to a hot pink color. > > When I rinsed the fabric it reverted back to its pistachio green color. > > Doncha love chemicals? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 22:58:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB3wv2q023655 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:58:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3wGcC026930; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:58:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3wF70008829; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:58:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net (firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB3wC70008794 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:58:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.217.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.217] helo=4gxif) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AJPfQ-0006UU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:58:12 -0800 Message-ID: <00d201c3a808$068e4e20$d9f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031104131529.S69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> <3FA880D1.8010305@oldwaylane.net> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:57:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef0220f8c76606c0a41f8b1b648f7275db350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Subject: [h-cost] Was body types, etc, now Finnish music X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try Varrtina, another women's group from Finland; I recommend "Oi Dai", "Aitara", "Seleniko", and "Vihma". Also try Rosenberg 7, from Norway. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 23:07:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB4732q024014 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:07:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB46OcC027450; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:06:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB46M70013349; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:06:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40904.mail.yahoo.com (web40904.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAB46K70013288 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:06:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031111040614.86542.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.167.44.41] by web40904.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:06:14 PST Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:06:14 -0800 (PST) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311110330.hAB3UMgc023905@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: time travel -- Kage Baker's books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy wrote: > There are short stories? Yes! She's got a collection of stories called _Black Projects, White Knights: The Company Dossiers_, published by Golden Gryphon. It's available on Amazon, but only in hardback for about $18 (US): http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2C856086 -Tasha ===== ***Updated as of November 1, 2003: Aumônière-mania!*** http://www.cottesimple.com An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 23:21:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB4LO2q024480 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:21:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4KXcC028310; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:20:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4KW70020633; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:20:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail12.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail12.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4KT71020620 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:20:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) hAB4KS9j022752 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:20:28 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.46.254]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:20:23 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List \(E-mail\)" Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:20:16 -0500 Message-ID: <04ed01c3a80b$1ca09b20$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Sorta OT: Kage Baker's time travel fiction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Funny that this author comes up - I just discovered Baker from Drea, who recommended "Garden of Iden" to me. I really enjoyed it and the sequel "Sky Coyote" is on my never-ending book pile. I didn't know there were Company short stories either - where could I find these? Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 23:24:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB4O42q024563 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:24:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4NTcC028447; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:23:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4NS70022104; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:23:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4NP70022039 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:23:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hAB4NPON028609 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:23:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.98] (tnt-1-27.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.219]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB4NLh7028506 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:23:23 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00d201c3a808$068e4e20$d9f74a43@4gxif> References: <20031104131529.S69192-100000@shell.siscom.net> <3FA880D1.8010305@oldwaylane.net> <00d201c3a808$068e4e20$d9f74a43@4gxif> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:13:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Was body types, etc, now Finnish music Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:57 PM -0500 11/10/03, Helen Pinto wrote: >Try Varrtina, another women's group from Finland; I recommend "Oi Dai", >"Aitara", "Seleniko", and "Vihma". I have a CD that claims to be Varttina's "Seleniko" but turns out to actually be an odd assortment of Latino music (I'm not familiar enough with styles to identify precise origins, but some of it sounds Mexican and some sounds Cuban. Definitely Spanish language.) Weirdest thing. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 23:27:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB4R92q024676 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:27:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4QUcC028776; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:26:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4QT70023797; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:26:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4QQ70023724 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:26:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEBEA425CE for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:31:24 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FB06589.2080305@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:28:57 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] report: dyeing linen References: <001c01c3a7fc$7d9e9d50$6501a8c0@SG01> In-Reply-To: <001c01c3a7fc$7d9e9d50$6501a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > Wow, how strange....I vote for "Goose Turd Green" (one of my personal > faves!) It's in the dryer now getting less waterlogged before I iron it. I swear it's brighter than when I started. I love the olive/ moss/ goose turd colors, too. Unfortunately I already have two skirts, a bodice, and italian gown in those colors, plus two bolts of linen that came that color.... so I'm thinking this stuff is going to end up some shade of brown unless I can document teal or peacock blue. :) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 23:34:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB4YW2q024913 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:34:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4XtcC029330; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:33:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4Xs70027924; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:33:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAB4Xp70027901 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:33:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 60851 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Nov 2003 04:33:33 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 2.363161 secs); 11 Nov 2003 04:33:33 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 2.363161 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2003 04:33:30 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:33:38 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorta OT: Kage Baker's time travel fiction In-Reply-To: <04ed01c3a80b$1ca09b20$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Message-ID: <20031110233204.T6962-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-Reply-UID: (2 > )(1 1018637173 41494)/var/mail/drea X-Reply-Mbox: inbox X-Cursor-Pos: : 422 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Most of the ones I've seen were in Asimov magazine. /Very/ interesting...and very funny, some of them! I hope she puts some together in an anthology, soon. Mendoza in Hollywood is the one after Sky Coyote, where you start to get an idea of where the whole series is headed. Plus, she teaches elizabethan pronunciation. Definitely on my short list of people I'd love to go to lunch with...her and Judi Dench. Drea On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, A.Thurman wrote: > Funny that this author comes up - I just discovered Baker from Drea, who > recommended "Garden of Iden" to me. I really enjoyed it and the sequel "Sky > Coyote" is on my never-ending book pile. > > I didn't know there were Company short stories either - where could I find > these? > > Allison T. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 23:41:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB4f52q024985 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:41:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4e7cC029782; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:40:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4e670001490; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:40:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAB4e270001412 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:40:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCiXvLe0w2YdFwrwT3Wq+UcYSqD3DPnGIiw==">; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:39:26 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JEN8FUAR; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:39:26 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:36:45 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] report: dyeing linen Message-ID: <20031110.223646.-781817.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,11-13 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:28:57 -0600 Dawn writes: > .... so I'm thinking this stuff > is going to end up some shade of brown unless I can document teal or > peacock blue. :) > > > > Dawn I don't know if you can document teal, but there are references to 'drake's colour' which I take to be very similar to teal or blue/green. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 23:48:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB4mo2q025002 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:48:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4mCcC000491; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:48:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4mA70006114; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:48:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAB4m770006043 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:48:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OnmMGoYzURT4H9O1+xy2oUA=">; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:47:55 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JEN8XCVL; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:47:55 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:16:21 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] blanchet (was: making shoes) Message-ID: <20031110.204654.1936.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,16-17 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > So I dug out my copy of "Menagier" and there are two additional > references, one to a white woolen cloth to be laid on the bed to > attract and remove fleas (p.115, Eileen Power trans., section on > housekeeping), but the second one is the meaningful one. In the > notes, p.208, in a note written by Jerome Pichon, he defines the > blanchet as a short garment of white cloth or flannel worn over the > chemise. A guess here, but maybe it's some sort of a neckline > filler, for modesty or warmth, like when a wimple isn't being worn? > > Any other guesses? My guess was that it might be some sort of short stole worn under the gown but covering the shoulders and upper chest more than the gown does. The book was written around 1393, so I am assuming (perhaps erroneously) that V-line overgown necklines were in, which could be a bit chilly in winter. Too early for partlets? Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 10 23:58:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB4wZ2q025021 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:58:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4vvcC001325; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:57:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4vuAB012437; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:57:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB4vqAC012389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:57:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAB4w7UZ000876 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:58:08 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAB4w7HO000874 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:58:07 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: time travel -- Kage Baker's books Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:58:06 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031111040614.86542.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031111040614.86542.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311102358.06991.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 10 November 2003 11:06 pm, Tasha McGann wrote: > Cathy wrote: > > There are short stories? > > Yes! She's got a collection of stories called _Black > Projects, White Knights: The Company Dossiers_, > published by Golden Gryphon. It's available on Amazon, > but only in hardback for about $18 (US): > > http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2C856086 Thanks! It's going on my Christmas list anyway. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 00:54:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAB5st2q025118 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 00:54:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB5sEcC004584; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:54:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAB5sAAB010834; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:54:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from web80403.mail.yahoo.com (web80403.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAB5s6AB010770 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:54:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031111055401.60861.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.114.230.70] by web80403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:54:01 PST Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:54:01 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Fleury To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311110330.hAB3UMgb023905@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: time travel X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Hey, why worry? We saw the trailer for Timeline when we went to The >Matrix: Revolution. Switch off brain and critical faculties, watch >Keanu. If scriptwriters worried about logical inconsistencies, there'd >be no films! I'm seriously considering getting a bunch of re-enactor >friends together for a Tuesday afternoon showing of Timeline and just >ripping it to bits! >Jean As a film maker myself (I do props for TV and films), the horrible thing is that the scriptwriters often DO worry about logical inconsistencies. After what seems like thousands of meetings to decide where we can and can't "cheat", they typically write toward the accurate and then in shooting, it all sort of crashes and burns. Between directors, producers, actors and every soul investing 100 bucks or more it usually gets ripped apart during filming. And the #1 excuse? "If they're watching for that, they're missing the point" (!!!!!!!!!!!) Those of us who care about these things are definitely in the minority. If not the sub-minority. Usually when the "higher ups" are making the decision to throw logic (and/or history) to the wind and receive objections from one of the departments trying to make it realistic, they say, "okay, so there's gonna be 10 people who are into kwakiutl indian war canoes who will be offended. so what?" And speaking for the majority of the peopl! e who have to make it happen, it's heartbreaking. Our response tends to be "If only 10 people know, why not do it RIGHT? The ignorant people won't know the difference and those who do will be impressed" All I can say is speak up! E-mail the productions via their websites. Shows DO seem to listen when the feedback gets truly ugly. I'm currently working on a mid-season replacement TV series which involves a Los Angeles law firm in the year 2054-we're inventing the future. It is a period, even if it's not one we can research. And some of the ideas are fantastic, some are truly terrifying. But I know they're concerned about how the audience will receive the decisions. (One advantage of TV over film-feedback can be worked in!) So don't just resign yourself to ripping things apart, be heard. Even if the movie is already made, the next production to attempt something similiar will have followed how it was received and may (slightly) adjust their production values because of it! Which is not to say that horrible movies will not continue to be made!!! Anything for the almighty dollar! Jennifer Fleury Assistant Property Master "Century City" Universal Network Television _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 06:50:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABBoO2q032126 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 06:50:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABBndcC019319; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:49:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABBnbGk005581; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:49:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABBnXGk005535 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:49:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from p11-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.11] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AJX1W-0002B1-00; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:49:31 +1300 Message-ID: <003a01c3a849$df7bb010$0bc0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001c01c3a7fc$7d9e9d50$6501a8c0@SG01> <3FB06589.2080305@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] report: dyeing linen Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:49:31 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I love the olive/ moss/ goose turd colors, too. Unfortunately I already > have two skirts, a bodice, and italian gown in those colors, plus two > bolts of linen that came that color.... so I'm thinking this stuff is > going to end up some shade of brown unless I can document teal or > peacock blue. :) I missed the era, but teal comes up in a lot of German Renaissance paintings, and there is a painting by Raphael with some men in teal. Also there is a tapestry I found a book of that uses a lot of shades of blue, or which teal is one. That one is late 15thC probably France though the tapestry is in England now I believe. I do have some photos of this if you really need it, as for teal in paintings, Cranach's Fountain of Youth is one good example. Women in the background wear it. So it all depends on your time/place/fabric. Linen was used as an outer layer in middle class german of the 16thC;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 10:49:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABFnL2q032744 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:49:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABFbkcC005211; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:37:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABFbcG3010572; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:37:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mxsf02.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf02.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABFbYG3010486 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:37:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from laptop (24-196-146-67.mazo.wi.charter.com [24.196.146.67]) hABFZ8JZ007895 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:35:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Message-ID: <003001c3a869$4830dc60$4392c418@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <001c01c3a7fc$7d9e9d50$6501a8c0@SG01><3FB06589.2080305@reddawn.net> <003a01c3a849$df7bb010$0bc0adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] report: dyeing linen Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:34:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Linen was used as an outer layer in middle class german of the 16thC;) > > michaela > http://costumes.glittersweet.com > Ooooooooh - where did you find this out? ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 11:21:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABGLR2q000361 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:21:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABGKicC009179; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABGKfhN014954; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:20:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABGKRhN014797 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:20:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E009B36A7D for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:20:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AJbFi-00006i-00 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:20:26 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorta OT: Kage Baker's time travel fiction In-Reply-To: <20031110233204.T6962-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: <04ed01c3a80b$1ca09b20$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> <20031110233204.T6962-100000@shell.siscom.net> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:20:26 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea wrote: > Most of the ones I've seen were in Asimov magazine. /Very/ > interesting...and very funny, some of them! I hope she puts some together > in an anthology, soon. She has: "Black Projects, White Knights: The Company Dossiers" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1930846118) K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 11:31:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABGUx2q000390 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:30:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABGULcC010487; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:30:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABGUIhN023399; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:30:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hABGUDhN023347 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:30:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 33923 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Nov 2003 16:29:59 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.350912 secs); 11 Nov 2003 16:29:59 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.350912 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2003 16:29:58 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:30:01 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorta OT: Kage Baker's time travel fiction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031111112946.C13391-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Squee! Thanks! Drea On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Kirrily Robert wrote: > Drea wrote: > > Most of the ones I've seen were in Asimov magazine. /Very/ > > interesting...and very funny, some of them! I hope she puts some together > > in an anthology, soon. > > She has: "Black Projects, White Knights: The Company Dossiers" > (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1930846118) > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 12:32:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABHW62q000618 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:32:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHUhcC017627; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:30:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHU6hC019360; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:30:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHTxhC019233 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:30:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.67.57]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031111172958.UYNG1080.orval.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:29:58 -0500 Message-ID: <007901c3a879$490ffe80$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:28:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Movies (was time travel) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So what did everyone think of Musketeer? That's the one with all the kung fu wire work in it. Oddly enough the thing I had the biggest problem with in that movie was the scene where the Musketeers are charging -on foot and on horseback- a fully fortified castle that has cannons. Hmm, good idea? ;-) Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 12:40:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABHeO2q000642 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:40:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHdNcC018656; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:39:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHdKhC028648; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:39:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHdChD028444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:39:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-203.sonic.net [209.148.112.203]) (authenticated bits=0)hABHd5Bd011569 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:39:06 -0800 Message-ID: <3FB11F66.2010809@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:41:58 -0800 From: Fran Grimble Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorta OT: Kage Baker's time travel fiction References: <04ed01c3a80b$1ca09b20$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> <20031110233204.T6962-100000@shell.siscom.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kage Baker's latest book is a superb non-Company fantasy novel titled _The Anvil of the World_. Other relatively recent fantasies with historic appeal (at least to me) are Jeff VanderMeer's _City of Saints and Madmen_, K. J. Bishop's _The Etched City_, China Mieville's _Perdito Street Station_ and _The Scar_, and, for those who like adventure, Greg Kurzawa's _Gideon's Wall_. Fran Kirrily Robert wrote: >Drea wrote: > > >>Most of the ones I've seen were in Asimov magazine. /Very/ >>interesting...and very funny, some of them! I hope she puts some together >>in an anthology, soon. >> >> ----------------------------------------- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 12:41:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABHfD2q000647 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:41:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHePcC018836; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:40:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHeMhC029610; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:40:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHdjhC029003 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:39:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.67.57]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031111173943.VDFF1080.orval.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:39:43 -0500 Message-ID: <00cb01c3a87a$a5445060$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Shoes Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:32:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the clarification! Thats what we suspected, but I thought I should ask and find out for sure. Sheridan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Carlson Subject: [h-cost] Re: Shoes > From: "Sheridan & Shane" > >You mentioned in another post that the plaster last made from an old shoe > >was problematic, what specifically was/is the problem? My husband was > >actually just about to use his last pair of sneakers to make a couple of > >lasts per your article, any pointers or tips before we proceed to make a > >plastery mess of my kitchen? :-) I do actually own a couple of wooden lasts > >(an inheritance) but they are in storage somewhere on the other end of the > >country. > > Ok, the -major- trauma was that when I did this, I used an old pair of army > dress shoes I had on hand. I secured them fairly tightly but ultimately > when I poured the plaster the fact that I was creating an image of the > inside of a shoe wound up working against me -- the sides and sole bulged > unevenly (for the pressure reasons that Lisa mentions), and I wound up with > some unexpected ridges from the "tabs" (where the shoelaces go) along the > instep. Look carefully and I do really say that I don't think people should > waste much time with this technique :) > > Marc > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 12:46:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABHki2q000663 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:46:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHjpcC019488; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:45:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHjNhC004474; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:45:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHjDhC004300 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:45:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip21.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.21]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 262D96AB0C for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:45:11 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:45:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] report: dyeing linen Message-ID: <3FB0AFAE.11363.471D6F00@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FB049D0.4040505@reddawn.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well, I finally got enough time to play with that bolt of cotton-linen > I picked up the week before Halloween. > > It's a light, bright green, the color of pistachio ice cream. I > decided to try for something else. I started by running it through the > washer twice on hot as suggested, then giving it a bath in RIT color > remover for 40 minutes. > > I was shocked when the bath turned it bright purple, but as the water > cooled it subdued to a hot pink color. > > When I rinsed the fabric it reverted back to its pistachio green > color. It sounds like a chemical reaction. It actually sounds like the nickel trisethylenedialene chloride I made in chemistry class. It started out green when it was the trans form, but turned purple when in the tris form. I still have some of the purple powder in a scrap book (sealed in glass). But I didn't do anything to change it back. I've had that same thing happen with color removers before. I had some lime green trim which turned the most gorgeous color of teal in the Rit dye remover. I was so disappointed when it turned back to the lime green when I rinsed it. It sounds like you may have actually gotten something with a synthetic. If it were 100% linen, you'd at least get a lighter color of green when it came out. But the synthetics have the dye more internal to the fibre so they don't give it up the way linen should. If it came out the *same* green, it might be a synthetic blend. If so, it may not dye either. The synthetic fibres don't take up dye the way the linen would. Keep us informed, though. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 12:51:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABHpP2q000701 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:51:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHoQcC020052; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:50:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHoPdX009360; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:50:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABHoLdX009199 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:50:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E090425CE for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:55:44 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FB12216.4030603@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:53:26 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movies (was time travel) References: <007901c3a879$490ffe80$cb6afea9@shooie> In-Reply-To: <007901c3a879$490ffe80$cb6afea9@shooie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sheridan & Shane wrote: > So what did everyone think of Musketeer? That's the one with all the kung fu > wire work in it. Oddly enough the thing I had the biggest problem with in > that movie was the scene where the Musketeers are charging -on foot and on > horseback- a fully fortified castle that has cannons. > Somehow I missed that one, but from what I can see in the stills the costumes look like ren-fest garb. It's sort of close, but they miss on a lot of the details. Hmmn. I'll have to put this on my list of movies to rent the next time I spend a weekend at my friend's house sewing. The kung fu action sounds like it'd be fun. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 13:06:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABI6e2q000806 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:06:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABI5lcC022078; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:05:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABI5fhM024530; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:05:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from charlevoix.vervehosting.com (charlevoix.vervehosting.com [209.50.239.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABI5ZhN024423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:05:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.204.72.24] (helo=Kass) by charlevoix.vervehosting.com with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AJctP-0006AN-Mw for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:05:32 -0500 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Movies (was time travel) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:05:28 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c3a87e$65b481a0$1848ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <007901c3a879$490ffe80$cb6afea9@shooie> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - charlevoix.vervehosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - reconstructinghistory.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sheridan asked: <> Hated it so much I turned it off after the first fight scene. I simply can't suspend belief enough to watch 17th century Musketeers doing kung fu. It was like a bad joke. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 13:12:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABICn2q000845 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:12:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIC4cC022915; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:12:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIC0hM000780; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail8.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail8.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIBthN000681 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:11:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) hABIBWJF003480 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:11:32 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.46.254]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:11:31 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List \(E-mail\)" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:11:28 -0500 Message-ID: <051401c3a87f$3ac4b9f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This subject comes up (again!), just after I went to see "Matrix Revolutions". Two of the trailers before the movie were for "The Alamo" and "The Last Samurai". It's getting to a point that whenever I see an ad for a "costume drama" I experience simultaneous thrill and dread - thrill because I love history, dread because I'm wondering just how they're going to butcher it THIS time! I still might give The Alamo a chance, but I think Samurai may have to wait for video. I'm on the lookout for "Girl With A Pearl Earring", but am not seeing anything for it yet. Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 13:38:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABIc12q001047 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:38:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIQpcC024512; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:26:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIQlhM014411; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:26:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIQihM014387 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:26:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.105] (pm7-105.eos.net [205.133.149.105]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABIQg1I007937 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:26:42 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:28:24 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311111739.hABHdjhD029004@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jennifer: Thanks for that interesting reply about the movie business. I never bother to write to the movie people, but it sounds as if that would be a good idea after all. What do you think is the best place to write -- the studio itself? Speaking of changes, has anyone seen the previews for "The Cat in the Hat"? Dr. Suess must be rolling in his grave! I never saw the Jim Carrey Grinch movie, what I heard was bad enough. Who wants to know what childhood trauma made the Grinch mean? But The Cat in the Hat seems to be full of sexual innuendo, and based on the book of the film I peered at in a store the other day, there seems to be a sub-plot about a bad man scheming to marry the children's mother, and the Cat saving them from that terrible fate. Geez, what are writers (or maybe producers) thinking? You take a book about kids being a little bad when their parents aren't around, and turn it into a movie about an evil predator and fill it with sex jokes. Sounds like a good idea to me! I hope people stay away in droves, but I doubt it. Obligatory costume content: Michael Myers looks creepy as the Cat, the kids have wacky Suess-inspired clothes, and the mother looks like a cartoon sexpot that has very little to do with Dr. Suess's style. Sigh. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 13:42:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABIgr2q001093 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:42:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIg3cC026096; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIfqhM028239; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:41:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIfnhM028115 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:41:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0688C425CE for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:47:12 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FB12E26.8060902@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:44:54 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] report: dyeing linen References: <3FB0AFAE.11363.471D6F00@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FB0AFAE.11363.471D6F00@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > I've had that same thing happen with color removers before. Well, it's good to know my situation wasn't a freak case. > > It sounds like you may have actually gotten something with a > synthetic. I did a burn test. The warp threads burned slow and left a feathery grey ash. The weft burned slow and left a feathery white ash. Smelled like leaves. It's got some combination of cotton and linen in it, I can *feel* the linen. I'm going to try overdyeing it with orange today. I'm hoping for a nice medium brown. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 13:52:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABIqB2q001639 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:52:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABInjcC027051; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:49:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABInhhM005739; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABInchM005567 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:49:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a237.in-tch.com [66.62.107.37]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hABISTc23266 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:28:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FB12FD6.728E5679@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:52:06 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movies (was time travel) References: <007901c3a879$490ffe80$cb6afea9@shooie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Didn't see it. --sue Sheridan & Shane wrote: > > So what did everyone think of Musketeer? That's the one with all the kung fu > wire work in it. Oddly enough the thing I had the biggest problem with in > that movie was the scene where the Musketeers are charging -on foot and on > horseback- a fully fortified castle that has cannons. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 13:52:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABIqx2q001693 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:52:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIprcC027313; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:51:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIpqhM007570; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:51:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from charlevoix.vervehosting.com (charlevoix.vervehosting.com [209.50.239.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIpnhN007510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:51:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.204.72.24] (helo=Kass) by charlevoix.vervehosting.com with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AJdc9-0000QE-8a for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:51:45 -0500 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: movies Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:51:41 -0500 Message-ID: <003f01c3a884$dae0a250$1848ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - charlevoix.vervehosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - reconstructinghistory.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I keep seeing previews for it and screaming, "That's not Dr. Suess!" I didn't know anything about the plot, but there is just something that's making me revolt. I hope it flops too. Kass -----Original Message----- From: Gail & Scott Finke [mailto:gailscott@eos.net] Sent: 11 November 2003 1:28 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: movies I hope people stay away in droves, but I doubt it. Obligatory costume content: Michael Myers looks creepy as the Cat, the kids have wacky Suess-inspired clothes, and the mother looks like a cartoon sexpot that has very little to do with Dr. Suess's style. Sigh. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 13:59:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABIxJ2q002202 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:59:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIwKcC028023; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:58:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIwIA0013259; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:58:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hABIwGA0013181 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:58:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 96908 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Nov 2003 18:58:02 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.112476 secs); 11 Nov 2003 18:58:02 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.112476 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2003 18:58:01 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:58:04 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies In-Reply-To: <051401c3a87f$3ac4b9f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Message-ID: <20031111135611.D13391-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > It's getting to a point that whenever I see an ad for a "costume drama" I > experience simultaneous thrill and dread - thrill because I love history, > dread because I'm wondering just how they're going to butcher it THIS time! > I still might give The Alamo a chance, but I think Samurai may have to wait > for video. I think I'm going to go see the Alamo, if only for Billy Bob. I always loved Davy Crockett as a kid. And I am looking forward to Last Samurai, but not for the costumes...more for the potentially keen swordfighting and battle scenes. and Kodo drums. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 14:01:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABJ102q002296 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:01:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIw0cC027946; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIvxA0012941; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:57:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from charlevoix.vervehosting.com (charlevoix.vervehosting.com [209.50.239.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABIvuA1012881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:57:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.204.72.24] (helo=Kass) by charlevoix.vervehosting.com with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AJdi3-0000hh-U1 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:57:52 -0500 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:57:48 -0500 Message-ID: <004001c3a885$b56e5750$1848ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <051401c3a87f$3ac4b9f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - charlevoix.vervehosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - reconstructinghistory.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm in the same boat as you, Allison. If they ever made a good pre-Victorian movie, I'd probably have to see it on video because I've been disappointed so many times that no one could possibly drag me to the theatre. I'm dreading "Girl with a Pearl Earring" for two reasons: #1, I really liked the book and I don't want them to mess with it; and #2, I do 17th century reenactment and I don't want to see them mess with that. I love just about any movie Colin Firth is in, but I wonder if they can resist turning him into the love interest? I don't want them to take the movie farther than the book went just to see Mr. Firth's bottom naked, you know? Sometimes I think I love late 19th century costume dramas *precisely* because I don't reenact that period. I don't know what's wrong so I don't mind, I guess. Although when they change the plot of a Edith Wharton or Henry James novel, I get upset about that too. Kass -----Original Message----- From: A.Thurman [mailto:athurman@cybergal.com] Sent: 11 November 2003 1:11 PM To: Historic Costume List (E-mail) Subject: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies This subject comes up (again!), just after I went to see "Matrix Revolutions". Two of the trailers before the movie were for "The Alamo" and "The Last Samurai". It's getting to a point that whenever I see an ad for a "costume drama" I experience simultaneous thrill and dread - thrill because I love history, dread because I'm wondering just how they're going to butcher it THIS time! I still might give The Alamo a chance, but I think Samurai may have to wait for video. I'm on the lookout for "Girl With A Pearl Earring", but am not seeing anything for it yet. Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 14:11:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABJB92q003173 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:11:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABJA7cC029265; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:10:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABJA6A0023576; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:10:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABJA1A0023467 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a237.in-tch.com [66.62.107.37]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hABImtc04154 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:48:56 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FB134A0.453B116C@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:12:32 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies References: <004001c3a885$b56e5750$1848ccd1@Kass> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bingo! That's probably why I enjoyed Patriot (well, that and Mel). I know so little about the clothing/military styles/etc. from that time, that my eye never caught any of the niggly bits like the wrong color boots on the soldiers and such. --sue Kass wrote: > > Sometimes I think I love late 19th century costume dramas *precisely* > because I don't reenact that period. I don't know what's wrong so I > don't mind, I guess. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 15:16:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABKGh2q006615 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:16:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABKDTcC005683; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:13:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABKDO0G019919; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:13:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav40.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABKDL0G019798 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:13:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:13:15 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav40.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:13:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001901c3a87e$65b481a0$1848ccd1@Kass> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movies (was time travel) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:12:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Nov 2003 20:13:15.0949 (UTC) FILETIME=[3DA50DD0:01C3A890] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Sheridan asked: > < kung fu wire work in it. Oddly enough the thing I had the biggest > problem with in > that movie was the scene where the Musketeers are charging -on foot and > on > horseback- a fully fortified castle that has cannons.>> > > Hated it so much I turned it off after the first fight scene. I simply > can't suspend belief enough to watch 17th century Musketeers doing kung > fu. It was like a bad joke. I think it was supposed to be a joke. I liked it, just because it was fun. It made no attempt at historical authenticity, and didn't care about being realistic. It was just fun. Not on my top list, but I didn't mind having paid the money to see it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 15:40:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABKeB2q007214 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:40:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABKdPcC008129; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:39:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hABKdL0G013952; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:39:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14007.mail.yahoo.com (web14007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hABKdI0G013897 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:39:18 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031111203918.54442.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:39:18 GMT Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:39:18 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031111135611.D13391-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm going to see the Alamo in spite of all the historical inaccuracies I already know about.And I haven't heard how bad the costumes were. I REALLY want to see how badly the director butchered William Barrett Travis. > > I think I'm going to go see the Alamo, if only for > Billy Bob. I always > loved Davy Crockett as a kid. And I am looking > forward to Last Samurai, > but not for the costumes...more for the potentially > keen swordfighting and > battle scenes. and Kodo drums. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 19:43:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC0hB2q016513 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:43:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC0gScC001845; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:42:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC0gL1E012840; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:42:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC0gI1E012761 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:42:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1ad.1c23bed2 (3948) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:41:57 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1ad.1c23bed2.2ce2dbd5@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:41:57 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/11/2003 1:27:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: > What do you think is the best place to write -- the > studio itself? > Nah.....the producers. While your at it.....write those idiots who did a sequel to "Gone With the Wind". [but wouldn't let that black writer write a book based on it] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 19:49:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC0nB2q016739 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:49:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC0mTcC002238; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:48:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC0mR1E016513; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:48:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC0mO1E016467 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:48:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-171.75.196.21.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.196.21] helo=Dan) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AJjBH-00026v-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:48:23 -0500 Message-ID: <017a01c3a8b6$c0810120$15c44bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of thefuture...(wasRE:Psychic Archeology) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:48:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone read "Household Gods" , "Small Gods", 20th century woman bounced back to 2nd century Roman city. They get around the language thing by planting her in an ancestor's body. She discovers there are things she can't say in Latin because the words haven't been "invented" yet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 5:18 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of thefuture...(wasRE:Psychic Archeology) > > > Have a go at Connie Willis' "The Domesday Book" Without giving too much > away, the time traveller in this book has trouble at first with her > implanted translator, due to the fact that it was based on the speech of the > upper classes(and her own knowledge based on the writings of Chaucer and > others) and despite the fact that she carded, wove and dyed her clothing, it > was still too fine for most classes of folk. > > Better than 99% of the so-called time-travel books out there where most of > time time-travelers and "natives" can understand each other perfectly, > despite a 400 or more year language gap. > > Cindy Abel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 19:54:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC0st2q016960 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:54:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC0sHcC002716; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:54:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC0sF1E019926; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:54:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC0sD1E019874 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:54:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.71.3759bc36 (3948) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:54:01 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <71.3759bc36.2ce2dea9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:54:01 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/11/2003 1:59:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, historian@reconstructinghistory.com writes: > If they ever made a good > pre-Victorian movie, I'd probably have to see it on video because I've > been disappointed so many times that no one could possibly drag me to > the theatre. > Calm down now. There are many good ones."History of the World", "Young Catherine", "Queen Margo", "Camelot", the latest "3 Musketeers"....oh wait....ooops wrong list! Seriously there's "Barry Lyndon", "Cyrano de Bergerac [that one in French], the '70s "3 Musketeers", "The Madness of King George", "Dangerous Liaisons", "Sense and Sensibility", 'Persuasion".... and lots of not so great movies with great costumes: "Restoration", "The Man in the Iron Mask"..... So c'mon, it's worth the risk to go see things....especially if you can check out the official web site first. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 20:56:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC1us2q019832 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:56:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC1sscC006633; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:54:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC1sqgp024041; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:54:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20203.mail.yahoo.com (web20203.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAC1slgp023987 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:54:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031112015447.64361.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:54:47 EST Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:54:47 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <71.3759bc36.2ce2dea9@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Personally I'm looking forward to seeing the new Russell Crowe movie - Master and Commander. It's set during the Napoleonic era, and from what I've seen, there's not a gown in sight. But if you like naval stories, naval battles and naval uniforms... ;-) ===== **************************************** Lady Bella Lucia da Verona *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net *Courtesan Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ ***************************************** http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 21:11:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC2B42q020613 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:11:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2AHcC007879; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:10:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2AG5m003734; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:10:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2AC5n003688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:10:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAC2ATUZ002773 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:10:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAC2ASP8002771 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:10:28 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movies (was time travel) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:10:28 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <007901c3a879$490ffe80$cb6afea9@shooie> <3FB12216.4030603@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3FB12216.4030603@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311112110.28690.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 11 November 2003 12:53 pm, Dawn wrote: > Sheridan & Shane wrote: > > So what did everyone think of Musketeer? That's the one with all the kung > > fu wire work in it. Oddly enough the thing I had the biggest problem with > > in that movie was the scene where the Musketeers are charging -on foot > > and on horseback- a fully fortified castle that has cannons. > > Somehow I missed that one, but from what I can see in the stills the > costumes look like ren-fest garb. It's sort of close, but they miss on a > lot of the details. That's my recollection too. That, and the fact that the costuming department obviously subscribes to the "the common people wore drab colored, shabby clothing" myth. > > Hmmn. I'll have to put this on my list of movies to rent the next time I > spend a weekend at my friend's house sewing. The kung fu action sounds > like it'd be fun. As an action movie, it was fun; at rental prices you certainly won't be wasting your money. As a costume drama, though, it was highly disappointing. (So it was a good thing I didn't go to see it with high expectations for the costumes). :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 21:12:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC2Cc2q020677 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:12:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2BvcC008026; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:11:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2Bu5m004615; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:11:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2Bs5n004572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:11:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAC2CCUZ002801 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:12:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAC2CCRW002799 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:12:12 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: movies Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:12:12 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311112112.12285.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 11 November 2003 01:28 pm, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: [snip] > I hope people stay away in droves, but I doubt it. Ditto, and ditto again. >Obligatory costume > content: Michael Myers looks creepy as the Cat, the kids have wacky > Suess-inspired clothes, and the mother looks like a cartoon sexpot that has > very little to do with Dr. Suess's style. Sigh. Speaking strictly for me, I think it's a bad idea to make a live-action film out of *most* cartoons, and Dr. Seuss, in my opinion, is particularly ill-served by the "live action" approach. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 21:14:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC2En2q020797 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:14:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2E6cC008156; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:14:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2E65m005706; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20209.mail.yahoo.com (web20209.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAC2E35m005673 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:14:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031112021403.94327.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:14:03 EST Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:14:03 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: Costuming , courtesan@yahoogroups.com, italian_persona@yahoogroups.com, ItalRenCostuming , MargosPatterns , RenCostumer , sca-garb@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Venetian costumes for hire near San Bruno California?? (slightly OT) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I've had one of those unusual questions we web people sometimes get. A lady would like a costume for her son't annual dinner dance with the theme of "Carnivale - A Night In Venice", to rent or buy. Since I don't live anywhere near California, this is a little tough for me to answer. If anyone has anything at all that might help this lady out, please send to me at bella_lucia_da_verona (at) yahoo.com.au Thank you, ===== **************************************** Lady Bella Lucia da Verona *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net *Courtesan Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ ***************************************** http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 21:19:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC2Js2q021033 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:19:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2JCcC008521; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:19:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2JA5m008460; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:19:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2J75n008438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:19:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAC2JQUZ002867 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:19:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAC2JPhQ002865 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:19:25 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:19:25 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031112015447.64361.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031112015447.64361.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311112119.25520.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 11 November 2003 08:54 pm, Bella wrote: > Personally I'm looking forward to seeing the new Russell Crowe movie - > Master and Commander. It's set during the Napoleonic era, and from what > I've seen, there's not a gown in sight. But if you like naval stories, > naval battles and naval uniforms... ;-) > > Having read "Master and Commander," I'll say don't expect any gowns, because I believe all the scenes are set on or near the ship itself. There are some female characters in O'Brien's other books, but I don't think there were in this one. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 21:23:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC2Nf2q021217 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:23:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2N1cC008765; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2N15m010492; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2Mv5n010464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:22:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAC2NFUZ002897 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:23:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAC2NFha002895 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:23:15 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] =?iso-8859-1?q? Time=20travel=20as=20research=20tool=20of?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=20thefuture=2E=2E=2E?=( =?iso-8859-1?q?wasRE=3APsychic Archeology?=) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:23:15 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <017a01c3a8b6$c0810120$15c44bab@Dan> In-Reply-To: <017a01c3a8b6$c0810120$15c44bab@Dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311112123.15359.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 11 November 2003 07:48 pm, Genie wrote: > Has anyone read "Household Gods" , "Small Gods", 20th century woman bounced > back to 2nd century Roman city. They get around the language thing by > planting her in an ancestor's body. She discovers there are things she > can't say in Latin because the words haven't been "invented" yet. I read it, but only because it was a birthday present from an old friend. I usually hate books where a modern day person is plunked down into the past for no good reason. Particularly when the modern day person is a self-centered whiner (as is the case with the protagonist in "Household Gods"). Obligatory costume content: I'm no specialist in Roman costume, but it seemed to me that Turtledove et al did a creditable job with the costume and makeup details in "Household Gods", given that they had to extrapolate downward to what a lower-middle class woman would have had available to her. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 21:24:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC2OQ2q021253 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:24:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2NfcC008818; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:23:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2Ne5m010903; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:23:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2Nb5m010853 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:23:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.179]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id hAC2qnV30927 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:52:49 +1100 Message-ID: <012e01c3a8c4$5d20e880$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001901c3a87e$65b481a0$1848ccd1@Kass> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movies (was time travel) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:26:19 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sheridan asked: < Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC2Px2q021344 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:25:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2PKcC008929; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:25:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2PI5m011753; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:25:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2PF5n011724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:25:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAC2PXUZ002930 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:25:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAC2PXmK002928 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:25:33 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:25:33 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <051401c3a87f$3ac4b9f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> In-Reply-To: <051401c3a87f$3ac4b9f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311112125.33172.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 11 November 2003 01:11 pm, A.Thurman wrote: > This subject comes up (again!), just after I went to see "Matrix > Revolutions". Two of the trailers before the movie were for "The Alamo" and > "The Last Samurai". > > It's getting to a point that whenever I see an ad for a "costume drama" I > experience simultaneous thrill and dread - thrill because I love history, > dread because I'm wondering just how they're going to butcher it THIS time! When I see ads for costume dramas, I figure that it will be a win whether the costumes are good or not. If the costumes are good, I figure that I will get to enjoy a drool-worthy spectacle. If, on the other hand, the costumes are dreadful, I figure I can have lots of fun critiquing them to my costume-literate friends afterward. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 21:32:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC2W92q021476 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:32:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2VQcC009476; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:31:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2VP5m014853; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:31:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2VM5m014835 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:31:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from chris (dialup-a1-505.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.247.251]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B2E967ECE for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:31:20 +1100 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:33:20 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Subject: [h-cost] Time travel and musketeers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember a group of us sitting around in Victorian outfits (don't ask) discussing movies when one of our number brought up The Three Musketeers. We all smiled with good thoughts of Oliver Reed, Charlton Heston et al in those richly made and decorated robes, tunics, caps and gowns. "Hmm," the young lady continued, "and I thought Keifer Sutherland looked great in his - " Sometimes you just gotta bite your lip. On the subject of time travellers, what should one wear for one's trip back? When you turn up in Henry's court in your silver radiation suit, it is gonna be obvious that you are not a local. They will also notice something amiss if, like Michael J Fox, you arrive wearing a 'life jacket'. You could go the method used by both Christopher Reeve and by Time Trax and raid some second-hand store or a museum and I guess we are lucky that the Time Trax hero was exactly the same size as Stormin' Norman. Then there was The Time Tunnel - nah, don't even get me started on Irwin Allen and those magically disappearing and re-appearing suits. Kirk & Co's futuristic wear seen against 1980s San Francisco proved, as much as anything, that good designers use current trends to tell a story to present day audiences. William Devan's white hat and white duster coat looked good in shape for a trip to the wild west but the choice of colour! For my money, the best generic costume for a time traveller was in the George Pal/Rod Taylor) version of The Time Machine. That smoking jacket and trousers combination seemed to work anywhere. I am guessing, if the laws of physics can be changed, there will be a niche market for costumers who have experience in historical reproduction, -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 21:33:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC2Xb2q021516 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:33:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2WwcC009579; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2Ww5m015737; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2Wu5m015710 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:32:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.67.105]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031112023255.TYSM23529.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:32:55 -0500 Message-ID: <012001c3a8c5$2198edc0$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001901c3a87e$65b481a0$1848ccd1@Kass> <012e01c3a8c4$5d20e880$eaf4fea9@glendaii> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movies (was time travel) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:31:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Sheridan asked: > < kung fu wire work in it. > > Is that the one without actual muskets? A musketeer friend of mine went to > see a movie called Musketeer, and found that he could count the number of > muskets he saw in the movie on one finger! Plenty of swords and pistols > though. He was unimpressed, to say the least. I'm yet to see it. > > Glenda. That sounds about right, I haven't seen it since it was released. I went with a bunch of folks all dressed in full Cavalier and Musketeer garb, who were over dressed in comparison to the movie. :-) I like cheesy movies, and Kung fu, so I really wasn't expecting much from the movie historically speaking. I did find the big 'ladder battle' rather jarring though... Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 21:40:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC2ec2q021675 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:40:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2ducC010077; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:39:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2dt5m019700; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:39:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2dr5m019680 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:39:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from chris (dialup-a1-505.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.247.251]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id C897768181 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:39:51 +1100 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time travel oops Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:41:52 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FB0587F.B4CC324@in-tch.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Huh?" That is exactly what he said when he arrived at the time before his 7th floor apartment was built, -C. To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel oops Huh? --sue > Then there was the comic book about the man who built a time machine in his > 7th floor apartment and went back in time - - - _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 22:21:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC3La2q023087 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:21:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC3KtcC012797; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:20:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC3KpPN012157; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:20:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC3KnPN012134 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:20:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-171.75.196.21.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.196.21] helo=Dan) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AJlYm-0005Ge-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:20:48 -0500 Message-ID: <029101c3a8cc$0baa22c0$15c44bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <017a01c3a8b6$c0810120$15c44bab@Dan> <200311112123.15359.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of thefuture...(wasRE:Psychic Archeology) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:21:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO True, she was a whiner, but by the end she was almost a real "person". On Tuesday 11 November 2003 07:48 pm, Genie wrote: > > Has anyone read "Household Gods" , "Small Gods", 20th century woman bounced > > back to 2nd century Roman city. . > > I read it, but only because it was a birthday present from an old friend. I > usually hate books where a modern day person is plunked down into the past > for no good reason. Particularly when the modern day person is a > self-centered whiner (as is the case with the protagonist in "Household > Gods"). > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 11 22:43:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC3h42q023138 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:43:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC3gKcC014563; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:42:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC3gIPN024423; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:42:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC3gFPN024352 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m135.in-tch.com [216.166.191.135]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAC3L6c29414 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:21:06 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FB1ACAA.70E28E7E@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:44:42 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel oops References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh. Didn't get the reference, so I didn't get the joke! --sue, a bit slow these days... Christopher Ballis wrote: > > "Huh?" > That is exactly what he said when he arrived at the time before his 7th > floor apartment was built, > > -C. > > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel oops > > Huh? > --sue > > > Then there was the comic book about the man who built a time machine in > his > > 7th floor apartment and went back in time - - - > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 04:02:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAC92S2q004815 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 04:02:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC91fcC001319; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:01:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC91bVR028440; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:01:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC91XVR028416 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:01:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hAC933A21406.; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:03:03 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:01:32 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:01:12 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Patrick O'Brian discussion forum has been debating the forthcoming film for months. Apparently the plot is a mixture of elements from "Master and Commander" and "The Far Side of the World" - but no, I don't think any of the major female characters appear. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> cathy@thyrsus.com 11/12/03 02:19am >>> On Tuesday 11 November 2003 08:54 pm, Bella wrote: > Personally I'm looking forward to seeing the new Russell Crowe movie - > Master and Commander. It's set during the Napoleonic era, and from what > I've seen, there's not a gown in sight. But if you like naval stories, > naval battles and naval uniforms... ;-) > > Having read "Master and Commander," I'll say don't expect any gowns, because I believe all the scenes are set on or near the ship itself. There are some female characters in O'Brien's other books, but I don't think there were in this one. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 05:21:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACAL32q004159 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:21:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACAKQcC005337; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 03:20:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACAKGtk027284; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 03:20:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACAKEtk027247 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 03:20:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A85E294F0088; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 04:15:58 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A85B3B00174; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 04:15:55 -0600 Message-ID: <003501c3a906$4daeb8e0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:18:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Updates on the Gallery and other news X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have most of our websites updated now. Below are the updates and some other good news: www.costumeclassroom.com Please take time to check out the 2004 class schedule. We have divided some classes up on a semester, year-round, and monthly basis. Our Mothers-to-be Instructors: Jennie's Chancey's is due to have another baby in May. #5... she is catching up with me!Her Regency Gown AND 1914 Afternoon Dress classes are being held during the 2003 autumn semester. The last day to enroll in these classes are Nov. 26 and they have to be completed by Dec. 31. These classes will not be repeated until next June, for the summer/autumn 2004 semester (June-Dec.), Jennie will be holding her Tea Gown AND 1940s Swing Dress classes for the Winter/Spring semester, classes ending on May 31. The only live monthly class she will teach is her Regency Film class in July. At the end of this week, when the Cowgirls and Shady Ladies class ends, Marna Jean Davis is officially on maternity leave. She is due to have her baby in December. She will return sometime in January to teach her Parasols class. BTW, there is only one open slot for this session, but the March session has plenty of openings. This class booked up so quickly, if you want the March session, be advised to sign up early. Also Marna Jean is our shining star!!!!! In December, the film, Cold Mountain, comes out in theaters. Marna Jean made the parasols for the film... so watch out for them. There is a link to the parasols images on her class description webpage. Juanita Leisch is returning to teach her much loved Civil War Ladies Fashion class in January. Some of you may remember that Juanita took a break after getting married and moving to NYC. She is very excited to be returning. Holiday Gift Giving: Last year lots of people gave the gift of education from The Costume Gallery... friends and family gave their family members a gift of a class from our Classrooms. You might like to give a class to someone, or you might want hint to someone that you would like to take a class for a gift. All that is needed to fill the gift area out on the registration form. This year, you might also want to give the gift of a subscription to the Library to a friend or family member. If you want to give a library subscription, please write to me personally at penny@costumegallery.com and we will work out how to proceed. If you want to give a subscription as a gift, please do NOT go through the www.costumegallery.com/librarycard.htm webpage. You may tell the person you are giving them a class or subscription OR I can call the receiver on Christmas Eve or Day. I have surprised people in the past this way. It is a lot of fun to surprise people! You just need to let me know if you want me to surprise the person. We will also be opening up the first week of December a Costume Gallery Store with our very own products. There you will be able to purchase shirts, coffee mugs, mouse pads, greeting cards, etc. featuring our Library images. We will also have a 2004 calendar featuring the color fashion plates from my 1902 Delineator Magazines. So please watch for the announcements on the website. www.costumegallery.com Updates: I have updated the front page of the Gallery, www.costumegallery.com . You can now access all the Year in Fashions indexes (29 specific years between 1804-1923) and Class Descriptions from the front page. On the front of the Gallery, you may notice that I updated the site statistics for the first time in a year. Since Jan. 1998, our visitors to our websites, costumegallery.com, costumeclassroom.com and onlinecostumeball.com have reached over 23 million... yes, that is 23,000,000 visitors...mind-blowing. Our website's host provided an accurate account all of files on the sites... we have just over 6,000 webpages and over 25,000 images. We have come a long way baby!!!!!!! Some good news on the homefront... most of you know, I work out of my home. Six years ago, I moved into my 8'X10' office, which was plenty of room at the time. As my costume book and magazine collections grew, my office got smaller. I have a little path to get to the TV and my computer. Our third son is moving out this weekend, and we are all switching rooms in the house. I am moving in the 16'X16' room with wall-to-wall built-in bookshelves!!!!! YIPPEE!!!!! My books will finally get out of stacks and will be on shelves. Six years ago, when I officially became a business, I started a postcard quilt on the walls of my office. People from around the world (that I met on the internet) sent me postcards of costume collections that they have visited or wanted to visit. Several h-costumers have sent me postcards for my quilt. Today, I took the postcards down to move to my new office... 167 postcards and several costume posters! What a joy it was to read all the messages on the backs of the cards again. Some of the old-timers on the list would love to see the cards. Not only do I have more room in my new office for books but also for my postcard quilt. I might even have room for my sewing machine! I am so excited!!!!! Because of the move, I will not be online Saturday and Sunday. We have to tear down the hub and computer to move it. Please cross your fingers that we don't lose parts of it! We are moving four rooms around. I dreamed for years when the upper half of my kids were grown and moved out! The time has finally come... even though they moved just a couple of miles away for our house. So I see them every couple of days. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 05:22:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACAM32q004467 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:22:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACALUcC005406; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 03:21:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACALUtk027833; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 03:21:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from web80401.mail.yahoo.com (web80401.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hACALRtk027738 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 03:21:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031112102122.79304.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.143.107] by web80401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:21:22 PST Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:21:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Fleury To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311120233.hAC2X95n015877@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 761 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What do you think is the best place to write -- the > studio itself? > Start with any email info from the official websites as those will be the most checked, but emails to the studios and production companies are more direct, if harder to find addresses for. >That's my recollection too. That, and the fact that the costuming department >obviously subscribes to the "the common people wore drab colored, shabby >clothing" myth. An important thing to remember about movies is that the commoners and other background actors usually must be dressed drably for a number of reasons. First, so they don't take focus off the main actors. Second, so they don't clash with their surrounding set or location. Third, the only cost effective way to outfit multitudes of people in costume dramas is by renting their costumes as opposed to making them, and renting usually means going for something generic. Fourth, you're getting these costumes for people you won't meet until the morning you hand them the stuff, and drab works well on most everyone. Fifth, drab is easy to light effectively-even a pale blue shirt can look horribly burned out with only minimal lighting. And Sixth, in any scene with lots of extras they tend to "recycle" them. In other words, the same person probably walks through the frame twice, sometimes even three times to make it look like there are more people than they really have-very difficul! t if they're wearing anything recognizable, and drab is a lot less noticeable! True, it sucks for those of us who care, but on the other hand, period films are very expensive to make and generally don't bring in the box office other genres do, so the part about saving money means we get to have some period movies, even if they aren't accurate. Personally, I get inspired and excited whenever there's any period movie, even if it does end up sucking in accuracy-with one exception-"Elizabeth" which I think was absolutely wretched and a total waste of perfectly good film. Jennifer Fleury Assistant Property Master "Century City" Universal Network Television _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 06:51:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACBpF2q008808 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 06:51:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACBoWcC008820; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 04:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACBoUna003513; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 04:50:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACBoSna003475 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 04:50:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9941B2514 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 06:49:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 25112-01 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 06:49:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A33A51B2506 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 06:49:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <063401c3a912$dc4f8410$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel and musketeers Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 06:48:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 9:33 PM Subject: [h-cost] Time travel and musketeers > I remember a group of us sitting around in Victorian outfits (don't ask) > discussing movies when one of our number brought up The Three Musketeers. We > all smiled with good thoughts of Oliver Reed, Charlton Heston et al in those > richly made and decorated robes, tunics, caps and gowns. I really need to get that one. My only real mental picture of Oliver Reed is as Bill Sykes---as I was only five years old when we saw Oliver! in the theater, he scared the bejeebies out of me! Actually, I own the movie on video now, and Bill Sykes still scares the s*** out of me. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 08:27:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACDR62q011826 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:27:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACDPLcC013515; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 06:25:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACDPI9K015708; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 06:25:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACDPE9K015676 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 06:25:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.116] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A32E64B800CA; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:18:38 -0500 Message-ID: <004b01c3a921$16f9f240$745183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <04ed01c3a80b$1ca09b20$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorta OT: Kage Baker's time travel fiction Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:30:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And how about the Borshadt (Spelling?) series that contains the 'Wolf" memories. The Guenivere series is quite provoking! But she also 'does Rome, Gaul and etc. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List (E-mail)" Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 11:20 PM Subject: [h-cost] Sorta OT: Kage Baker's time travel fiction > Funny that this author comes up - I just discovered Baker from Drea, who > recommended "Garden of Iden" to me. I really enjoyed it and the sequel "Sky > Coyote" is on my never-ending book pile. > > I didn't know there were Company short stories either - where could I find > these? > > Allison T. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 09:53:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACErf2q015149 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:53:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACEqucC019550; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:52:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACEqrHR029676; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:52:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACEqoHR029648 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:52:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA10569 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:52:50 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-156-110-148.asm.bellsouth.net [66.156.110.148]) by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA12630 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:52:49 -0500 Message-ID: <012f01c3a92c$a41a2d60$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:52:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] I need help!!!! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am in great need of help! I agreed to put together a "garb game" for our SCA Barony's upcoming event. We have many quizzes and games where people can earn points towards other stuff. The game is then going to go into our "demo stuff". Anyway, here is the gist of it.... laminated period images that people have to put in chronological order. The front is just the image and the back has the date and where the image came from. I am doing 1000-1600 with one male and one female image from the first half of each century and one male and female image from the second half of each century. That way it can be played as one game or split into just male garb and just female garb. Here is my problem. I am great with late period..... however, I am terrible at early period. As I need images, I have been looking on the web with not much success. In a pinch, I could scan a page from Norris or something, but I have been trying to avoid re-draws altogether... especially bad ones. I do not have any images for the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries. If anyone out there knows of pages where I can find images, please let me know! Or if you have images, please email them to me at bkessinger@ureach.com. Thank you so much for saving my ....... um.... face! Teena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 09:57:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACEvj2q015369 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:57:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACEumcC019879; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:56:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACEuloq002174; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:56:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACEujoq002080 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:56:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:56:38 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:56:31 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Re: More Costumes in Movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: AlbertCat@aol.com and lots of not so great movies with great costumes: "Restoration", "The Man in the Iron Mask"..... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you mean the most recent 'Man' with Leo? I know they butchered the book but for some reason I really ended up likeing this movie (and I'm a bit of a Dumas purist), I think it is because the whole bit at the end seemed to capture the heart of a swashbuckler. Costume wise I found the lack of period wigs on the principals, especially Leo, very jarring, especially since they had them on other members of the court. Loved the Masquerade scene, I can spend hours with the pause button on that one alone :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 10:02:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACF262q015560 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:02:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACF1OcC020336; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:01:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACF1Loq005293; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:01:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACF05oq004176 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from karen (CPE-24-31-232-172.kc.rr.com [24.31.232.172]) hACF03x5029070 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:00:03 -0600 (CST) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] I need help!!!! Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:59:15 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <012f01c3a92c$a41a2d60$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Find people in your barony that have the appropriate clothing, and get them to pose for pictures? Talia > I do > not have any images for the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries. If anyone out > there knows of pages where I can find images, please let me know! > Or if you > have images, please email them to me at bkessinger@ureach.com. > > Thank you so much for saving my ....... um.... face! > > Teena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 10:06:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACF6v2q015849 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:06:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACF6GcC020659; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:06:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACF6Foq008219; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:06:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACF69oq008157 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:06:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail23.ureach.com (mailout.ureach.com [172.16.2.83]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26324 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:06:09 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-156-110-148.asm.bellsouth.net [66.156.110.148]) by mail23.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA20249 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:06:08 -0500 Message-ID: <013c01c3a92e$80615cc0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:06:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] caul image X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hope the discussion about the half globe cauls was on this list and not another! I just returned from vacation and many of the 2000+ emails were deleted without being read so if this was already mentioned or if it was from another list, please excuse! Cynthia, did you see this image? I know it is only one view of it, but it certainly looks like half globe cauls. I have no information about this image at all other than it is Jeanne de Bourbon, 1390. http://www.geocities.com/ariedin/Surc1.jpg It came from Karen Larsdatter's site. This is the page the image links from: http://www.geocities.com/karen_larsdatter/surcoats.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 10:08:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACF8S2q015927 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:08:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACF7jcC020773; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:07:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACF7hoq009271; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:07:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACF7doq009217 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:07:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail23.ureach.com (mailout.ureach.com [172.16.2.83]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27820 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:07:39 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-156-110-148.asm.bellsouth.net [66.156.110.148]) by mail23.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA21896 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:07:39 -0500 Message-ID: <014a01c3a92e$b65e77e0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: More Costumes in Movies Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:07:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I admit this movie is a bit of a guilty secret for me. I really enjoyed it and loved the costumes, but would never admit it in public. Well... now I have. Do they have a 12 step program for this? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 9:56 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: More Costumes in Movies > From: AlbertCat@aol.com > and lots of not so great movies with great costumes: "Restoration", > "The Man > in the Iron Mask"..... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Do you mean the most recent 'Man' with Leo? I know they butchered the > book but for some reason I really ended up likeing this movie (and I'm a > bit of a Dumas purist), I think it is because the whole bit at the end > seemed to capture the heart of a swashbuckler. > > Costume wise I found the lack of period wigs on the principals, > especially Leo, very jarring, especially since they had them on other > members of the court. Loved the Masquerade scene, I can spend hours > with the pause button on that one alone :). > > Catherine > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 10:11:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACFBX2q016084 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:11:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACFAncC021097; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:10:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACFAloq011372; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:10:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACFAioq011343 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:10:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.7]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20031112151044.VXKK6745.out002.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:10:44 -0600 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.10 (webedge20-101-190-20021211) From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:10:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [192.168.1.7] at Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:10:44 -0600 Message-Id: <20031112151044.VXKK6745.out002.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > From: Bella > Date: 2003/11/11 Tue PM 08:54:47 EST > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies > > Personally I'm looking forward to seeing the new Russell Crowe movie - Master and Commander. It's > set during the Napoleonic era, and from what I've seen, there's not a gown in sight. But if you > like naval stories, naval battles and naval uniforms... ;-) > > > > > > > ===== > **************************************** > Lady Bella Lucia da Verona > > *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net > *Courtesan Mailing List > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ > ***************************************** > > http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals > New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > For what it is worth there is at least one gown. Ron _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 10:12:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACFCg2q016166 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:12:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACFBkcC021206; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:11:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACFBjoq012029; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:11:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACFBdoq011919 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:11:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104036.uvm.edu [132.198.104.36]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACFBcg2015696 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:11:38 -0500 Message-ID: <3FB24DA8.2080303@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:11:36 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] I need help!!!! References: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> <012f01c3a92c$a41a2d60$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> In-Reply-To: <012f01c3a92c$a41a2d60$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sounds like fun! Here are a couple: I've just begun collecting 10th and 11th here: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/rhuddlan/images/ And there are several sculptures mixed in with architectural details from 11th, 12th, 13th cent. here: http://witcombe.sbc.edu/ARTHmedieval.html#Romanesque For 12th and 13th try: http://www.artcyclopedia.com/history/gothic.html or go to the Web Gallery of Art, go to the search feature, and search by century: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/index1.html - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 10:12:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACFCi2q016172 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:12:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACFCGcC021265; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:12:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACFCFoq012364; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:12:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACFCCor012276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:12:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hACFBKPX031812 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:11:20 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:11:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FB24E03.3000402@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:13:07 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] I need help!!!! References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hope Greenberg has a group of links to online art which you might find useful in getting the early images. It's at: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/ -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent I have to say that the legend of Icarus has always grated on me since I first heard it as a boy. I probably asked my dad hundreds of questions like, "Wouldn't epoxy glue work better than beeswax? Why didn't they try that? Or maybe he could just spritz water on the wings to keep them cool? Can we go buy some feathers?" -- Trevor Blackwell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 10:17:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACFH32q016448 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:17:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACFGVcC021645; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:16:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACFGSoq015001; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:16:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACFGNor014869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:16:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hACFFVPX031849 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:15:32 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:15:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FB24EFF.9010601@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:17:19 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] caul image References: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> <013c01c3a92e$80615cc0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> In-Reply-To: <013c01c3a92e$80615cc0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teena Paradise wrote: > I have no information about this > image at all other than it is Jeanne de Bourbon, 1390. Yep, got it, but thank you. However, I figured it was 1400s sometime, based on the sideless style and the headdress. It's possible that it was of her but made later, or I could be wrong (gasp!) Even if I'm wrong, it's, alas, up to 60 years later than the target time. I've rewriteen my web page about the "costume" solution for these things, but I still have to take a couple more photos to make it complete. I'll post to this list when it's up. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Instead of starting by drawing a random sample and then testing for the occurrence of a rare event, we select rare events that happened and find ourselves marveling at their nonrandomness. This is like the archer who first shoots an arrow and then draws the target circle around it." -- Ruma Falk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 11:19:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACGJP2q017050 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:19:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACGIZcC028278; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:18:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACGITaM006858; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:18:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f119.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACGHvaM006312 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:17:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:17:48 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.95 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:17:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.95] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:17:48 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2003 16:17:48.0391 (UTC) FILETIME=[83608770:01C3A938] Subject: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: Jennifer Fleury >An important thing to remember about movies is that the commoners and other >background actors usually must be dressed drably for a number of reasons. >First, so they don't take focus off the main actors… I actually do understand the whole rules for theatrical costuming thing – I –even- get the whole visual shorthand/let-the-clothes-say- something-about-the-character-that-people-will-be-able-to-pick-up- on-without-consciously-realizing-it thing. My wife, who has studied theatrical costuming, has dragged me through it time and time again (usually after having pointed out who the villain is in a movie after the first five minutes by how they are dressed). And of course there is the money thing. No problem. I understand all these, and sympathize, and can generally just go along with whatever the costuming artists have decided to work with. However, take a look at the costumes at http://www.thetimelinemovie.com/images.php Specifically the French archer. Ok, I don’t really care that the boots are wrong – they are unobtrusive (in fact far less obtrusively wrong than some of the other footwear in this movie – what can I say, it’s a thing…). What annoys me is the whole badly made leather jerkin with all that crap whip-stitching that looks like every bad fantasy movie/renfair/SCA outfit thing since the 70s. Now, I –know- that it’s “visual shorthand” for “rustic” (i.e. earlier than us, more primitive, backwards, stupid), but it’s not only wrong, it’s insulting – and curiously misses the point of the much of the book – that people in the Middle Ages –weren’t- stupid. OTOH, the fact that everyone is covered in dirt pretty well makes it clear to me that Donner didn’t even bother to READ the book – or at the very least he certainly didn’t _understand_ it. At this point, I’m going to go to see a movie that is not based on an book with a relevant point to make – I’m going to go see a crap fantasy movie that shares a title and some incidental plot points with Crichton’s novel. I’m expecting not much better than Krull or Zardoz personally. I’ve got friends who will bitch and moan that every detail in a movie wasn’t absolutely perfect – the buttons were wrong here, those boots were six months off from the date of the movie (what were they thinking) – or (my personal favorite) the language and dialect were wrong – as though a movie set in a historical dialect of a foreign language (I suppose with subtitles) is going to make it at the box office. Personally, I’m not that fussy – generally speaking all I ask for is something that resembles a plot and characterization and I’m good to go (And meaning no disrespect to anyone here, but after many years of seeing what we get out of the entertainment industry, I really don’t have expectations that I’m going to get even that much. When it happens, I’m delighted, but I’m rarely disappointed in my expectations when it doesn’t). What I am objecting to here is really the unconscious condescension that is regularly shoved at us that the past was an ugly, dirty place where people didn’t even know how to keep reasonably clean, finish seams for leather garments, weave proper cloth, and so on. If the film industry feels (as it appears to) that the shmoes in the seats aren’t going to plunk down their bux for clean peasants who look like they know what they are doing – and who knows, maybe they are right – possibly we should be trying to educate them better rather than just validating the public’s ignorance. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 11:47:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACGlS2q017452 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:47:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACGkhcC001771; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:46:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACGkeaM002915; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:46:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACGkZaM002827 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:46:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104036.uvm.edu [132.198.104.36]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACGkZg2007925 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:46:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3FB263E9.1050904@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:46:33 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc Carlson wrote: > What I am objecting to here is really the unconscious condescension that > is regularly shoved at us that the past was an ugly, dirty place where > people didn’t even know how to keep reasonably clean, finish seams for > leather garments, weave proper cloth, and so on. If the film industry *sigh* Hear! Hear! Then again, we are still under the spell of social Darwinism, so we must adhere to the basic tenet: our culture reflects our superiority. Those aspects of our culture that we prize: bodily cleanliness, synthetic textiles, etc. cannot be challenged by other times/cultures. Thus, portrayals of other cultures must include filth, rough textiles, and poor workmanship. (There is probably no small amount of western insecurity mixed in here as well...) Look on the bright side: the clothing, while not a clue to the attitudes or capabilities of the period portrayed, can act as a great indicator to future historians (assuming they will be interested in such things--the study of history has many fashions as well). For example, check out the little sleeve bow in: http://www.thetimelinemovie.com/gallery/friel_anna.jpg Straight out of last year's catalogs! - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 12:07:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACH7j2q017684 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:07:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACH74cC004144; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACH6FLR021404; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:06:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mxsf13.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf13.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.213]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACH5TLR020520 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:05:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from dewshine (cpe-24-196-247-126.spa.sc.charter.com [24.196.247.126])hACH4umH083757 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:04:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from muirgheal@charter.net) Message-ID: <001001c3a93d$95554b00$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> From: "Manly Summerfield" To: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:54:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all. I have a question thats a matter of tact (which isnt my strong suit). My family all knows we do the reinactment gig and some are rather supportive. The problem comes during the gift giving season when they attempt to give us gifts they thing fit with the medival hobby. Last year our gifts were quit pricy yet not useful at all. Is there a way yall would suggest saying, Where I appreicate your wanting to give us gifts we can use. . . Museum Replicas is not where to get these things? I dont want to be rude but I dont want them wasting money on things we cant use. Last year I got the side laced cotehartie from MR with the large collar and cuffs. Its a cute dress but Im just never going to wear it and I know it was expensive. Thanks!! Muirgheal Molann an obair an fear. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 12:16:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACHGv2q017729 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:16:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACHG9cC005388; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:16:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACHG8LR001455; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:16:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACHG4LR001310 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8175425CE for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:21:31 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FB26B97.9070904@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:19:19 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] report: dyeing linen References: <3FB0AFAE.11363.471D6F00@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FB0AFAE.11363.471D6F00@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's where we are in the light of day: I've now got fabric that is a dark peach sort of color. After trying the color stripper on it without noticeable results I put it into the washer with a box of tangerine dye according to the directions. I set the washer for a 15 minute soak, set my kitchen timer for ten minutes so I could come back and reset the machine, and walked upstairs... only to hear the unmistakeable sound of the washer draining. Ack! I ran back down the stairs in time to stop the drain and leave about 6 inches of dyebath in the machine. Then I got smart and just shut the darn thing off and left it for half an hour. When it had soaked for 30 minutes I had a nice dark roasted pumpkin color. It went into the rinse cycle and when it came out I had a lighter shade, and by the time it dried I could call it dark peach. It's not as pink as peach, but it's not a screaming orange either. It's very close in color to some peach colored fabric I have left over from garb that was made in the mid or late eighties. The pistachio green doesn't show through, except when I use the iron, then I get those footprints where I've applied heat, and it's slightly green until the fabric cools. Overall I am pleased with the shade, I didn't expect I could get any warm tones out of this. Knowing that it works I am thinking of trying a more yellow-brown mustard kind of shade on the next piece. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 12:19:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACHJr2q017761 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:19:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACHI6cC005661; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:18:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACHI4LR003307; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:18:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACHHuLR003198 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:17:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id LAA06080 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:17:54 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:17:54 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3FB263E9.1050904@uvm.edu> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As some on this list can doubtless personally attest, the translation from costume designer's mind to the screen is an inexact one at best. Edward Maeder's "Hollywood and History" is about the best book I've come across on all the why's behind what you see onscreen is often very far from what was really worn. If there is a better one, please let me know. Very often, a designer will design historically accurate costumes and hair and makeup artists will also want to be historically accurate. But here are all the caveats getting in the way from what would be historically accurate to what goes up onscreen. The current aesthetic to what is beautiful will influence to at least some degree what the designer designs. How much does designer and staff know about the time they are costuming? What research materials and extant garments(if any)are available. What photographs well and what doesn't, even if historically accurate Budget! Budget! Budget What can you can get to use onscreen(even if you have the budget to buy or rent). What the actors(especially the starring ones)are willing to wear in terms of costume, makeup and wigs to be period-accurate? Or are they and their press-machine too involved with keeping a certain image? And what do the director and studio heads want to see onscreen? The majority of people who go to the movies expect spectacle in "costume movies", not accuracy. And what about film censors(Remember the Hays office) Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Hope Greeenberg Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 10:47 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Marc Carlson wrote: > What I am objecting to here is really the unconscious condescension that > is regularly shoved at us that the past was an ugly, dirty place where > people didn’t even know how to keep reasonably clean, finish seams for > leather garments, weave proper cloth, and so on. If the film industry *sigh* Hear! Hear! Then again, we are still under the spell of social Darwinism, so we must adhere to the basic tenet: our culture reflects our superiority. Those aspects of our culture that we prize: bodily cleanliness, synthetic textiles, etc. cannot be challenged by other times/cultures. Thus, portrayals of other cultures must include filth, rough textiles, and poor workmanship. (There is probably no small amount of western insecurity mixed in here as well...) Look on the bright side: the clothing, while not a clue to the attitudes or capabilities of the period portrayed, can act as a great indicator to future historians (assuming they will be interested in such things--the study of history has many fashions as well). For example, check out the little sleeve bow in: http://www.thetimelinemovie.com/gallery/friel_anna.jpg Straight out of last year's catalogs! - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 12:22:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACHM52q017844 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:22:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACHLKcC006128; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:21:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACHLILR006678; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:21:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACHLFLR006551 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:21:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49288425CE for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:26:43 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FB26CCF.5020406@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:24:31 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem References: <001001c3a93d$95554b00$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> In-Reply-To: <001001c3a93d$95554b00$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Manly Summerfield wrote: > I appreicate your wanting to give us gifts we can use. . . Museum Replicas > is not where to get these things? I dont want to be rude but I dont want > them wasting money on things we cant use. I ask for gift certificates to those places. I sell my mother on the fact that a gift certificate is easier for her to mail to us than the actual gift. It's easier for her than keeping track of sizes and color preferences and what we already have, and she can just pop a couple into the holiday card with the family photo. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 12:26:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACHQh2q017892 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:26:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACHQ2cC006824; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACHPlLR011950; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:25:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hACHPJLR011380 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:25:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 89092 invoked by uid 1005); 12 Nov 2003 17:25:06 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.130894 secs); 12 Nov 2003 17:25:06 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.130894 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2003 17:25:06 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:25:03 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem In-Reply-To: <001001c3a93d$95554b00$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> Message-ID: <20031112122126.F36274-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Last year I got the side laced cotehartie from MR with the large collar and > cuffs. Its a cute dress but Im just never going to wear it and I know it was > expensive. I had the same problem. :) Then I mentioned to my mother, "Christmas presents? Well, anything medieval for the house would work." Then, whenever I visit, I bring a Toscano Replicas or Past Times catalog along, and "leave it behind." for her. Ever since then, it's been medieval tapestries, carved chests, embroidered silk curtains, preraphaelite Waterhouse paintings, all sorts of yummy stuff. Yay! Good luck, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 12:27:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACHRb2q017897 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:27:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACHQdcC006933; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:26:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACHQaLR012900; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:26:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hACHPJLR011381 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:25:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 89092 invoked by uid 1005); 12 Nov 2003 17:25:06 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.130894 secs); 12 Nov 2003 17:25:06 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.130894 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2003 17:25:06 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:25:03 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem In-Reply-To: <001001c3a93d$95554b00$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> Message-ID: <20031112122126.F36274-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Last year I got the side laced cotehartie from MR with the large collar and > cuffs. Its a cute dress but Im just never going to wear it and I know it was > expensive. I had the same problem. :) Then I mentioned to my mother, "Christmas presents? Well, anything medieval for the house would work." Then, whenever I visit, I bring a Toscano Replicas or Past Times catalog along, and "leave it behind." for her. Ever since then, it's been medieval tapestries, carved chests, embroidered silk curtains, preraphaelite Waterhouse paintings, all sorts of yummy stuff. Yay! Good luck, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 13:09:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACI9F2q018258 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:09:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACI8FcC011465; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:08:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACI8B8d023776; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:08:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACI878e023634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:08:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hACHhOPX032473 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:43:24 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:43:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FB271A7.7050909@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:45:11 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem References: <20031112122126.F36274-100000@shell.siscom.net> In-Reply-To: <20031112122126.F36274-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea Leed wrote: > "Christmas presents? Well, anything medieval for the house would work." For our wedding, we recieved a chain-mail wall sculpture. I hope they didn't pay much for it, but I have this fear that they found it as ART somewhere and spent $400. (picture at http://www.virtue.to/articles/bath.html ) How about gift certificates to the good online fabric retailers? Thai Silks, G street fabrics, Greenberg & Hammer? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 13:17:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACIHC2q018274 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:17:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIGRcC012450; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:16:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIGO8d002354; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:16:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.217]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIGI8d002127 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:16:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from Maxwell (66-214-172-199.mpk-eres.charterpipeline.net [66.214.172.199])hACIFoM7025195 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:15:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from CatDevereaux@alleycatscratch.com) From: "Cat Devereaux" To: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:15:52 -0800 Message-ID: <002001c3a949$0534d0c0$c7acd642@Maxwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <200311121511.hACFB1os011553@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Master and Commander - a resource X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>The Patrick O'Brian discussion forum has been debating the forthcoming film for months. Apparently the plot is a mixture of elements from "Master and Commander" and "The Far Side of the World" - but no, I don't think any of the major female characters appear. Since discussion has started on this movie... though I'd share a wonderful score on a source for helping folks recreate the costumers. While researching LOTR Ring costumes, found the button supplier for them... or at least some of the buttons. The company is Hushco Buttons. While taking to Michael, found out they sell to lots of movies.... and the sheer number of buttons they sold to Master and Commander was astronomical. But when you think about all those uniforms... it can add up. http://hushcobuttons.com/serv04.htm has some generic info about their buttons and services. They've got about half their buttons on line. Michael is very good at identifying what you're looking for. They are mostly wholesale, but we did work out a compromise for LOTR. They will ship order over 20. Prefer not to ship under a dozen buttons at a time. If you're going to buy even 5-6 dozen, buy a gross, it's cheaper... much. I pick up a gross for Boromir and Arwen's Mourning gown. They're downright decedent. The buttons are very high quality, heavy metal. -Cat- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 13:20:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACIK02q018285 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:20:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIIrcC012802; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:18:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIIp8d004730; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:18:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIIh8d004638 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:18:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip32.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.32]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECB406DDF6 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:18:41 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:18:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem Message-ID: <3FB208F8.24040.4C627BFF@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001001c3a93d$95554b00$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have a question thats a matter of tact (which isnt my strong suit). > My family all knows we do the reinactment gig and some are rather > supportive. The problem comes during the gift giving season when they > attempt to give us gifts they thing fit with the medival hobby. Last > year our gifts were quit pricy yet not useful at all. Is there a way > yall would suggest saying, Where I appreicate your wanting to give us > gifts we can use. . . Museum Replicas is not where to get these > things? I dont want to be rude but I dont want them wasting money on > things we cant use. Last year I got the side laced cotehartie from MR > with the large collar and cuffs. Its a cute dress but Im just never > going to wear it and I know it was expensive. Give them catalogues of things you *do* like with the preferred items circled. That way they'd get some idea of what you like. I don't know about your family, but mine always asks for a "list" of things we'd like. I usually tell them to give me gift certificates (which are easier to mail), but if it's for when we're going to be there in person, I do the catalogue thing. (And I make sure that there is a variety of prices so that they don't feel obligated to get me the most expensive things.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 13:32:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACIWr2q018601 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:32:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIVdcC014492; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:31:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIVO8d017522; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:31:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.156]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIVJ8e017424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:31:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 4635 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2003 18:31:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO castlebooks) ([208.166.66.113]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 12 Nov 2003 18:31:17 -0000 Message-ID: <000901c3a94b$29e9dee0$7142a6d0@castlebooks> From: "Janet Davis" To: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:31:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Iris Brooke X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got this e-mail yesterday (probably because a Google search showed her I carried Brooke's book and I seemed more likely to answer than Amazon). I have no clue but I thought someone on this list might. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emily Bernhard" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 3:51 PM > Hello! > > I am trying to locate Iris Brooke, the historical costume design expert > and wonder if you might point me in the right direction. > > Thanks so much! > > Emily Bernhard > Producer > Maine PBS > 1450 Lisbon Street > Lewiston, ME 04240 > 1-800-884-1717 x 5190 > I guess my reaction was to wonder if she is still alive - didn't her books come out in the mid-fifties? Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 13:43:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACIho2q018671 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:43:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIhAcC015981; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:43:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIh78d029125; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:43:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIh38d029067 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp37.directcon.net [209.79.209.37] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hACIj2W19694; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:45:02 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031112094102.00acdc90@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:41:02 -0800 To: Historical Costume , "Historical Costume" From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorta OT: Kage Baker's time travel fiction In-Reply-To: <004b01c3a921$16f9f240$745183d1@rmitchellras> References: <04ed01c3a80b$1ca09b20$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> Funny that this author comes up - I just discovered Baker from Drea, who >> recommended "Garden of Iden" to me. I really enjoyed it and the sequel >"Sky >> Coyote" is on my never-ending book pile. One of the reasons Kage gets all the 16th century details in "Garden Of Iden" right is that she's a long time reenactor. She and her partner, Kathleen Bartholomew, have been participants and instructors at the Rennaissance Pleasure Fairs in California for...well, longer than I've been working them! A genration of us learned our BFA (Basic Faire Accent) and much of our knowledge of customs and history of the period from Kage and Kathleen. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 13:47:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACIlE2q018692 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:47:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIkLcC016319; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:46:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIkK8d002602; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:46:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40906.mail.yahoo.com (web40906.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hACIkF8d002460 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:46:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031112184609.78292.qmail@web40906.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40906.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:46:09 PST Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:46:09 -0800 (PST) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311121819.hACIJC8f005103@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] RE: Costuming in movies rant X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cindy wrote: > The current aesthetic to what is beautiful will > influence to at least some > degree what the designer designs. Certain looks are timelessly beautiful, regardless of current fashion, on a purely asthetic level. There is a reason that late-14th century fashion is so popular in medieval dress-up organizations, for instance -- it looks darn-good on just about everybody -- at least when done well. I can't imagine that professional historical costume designers working for the movie/television industries don't KNOW that. Is it more pressure from the money-holders, though, that clamp down on their attempts to get things right as opposed to "Olden-days for Dummies"? > The majority > of people who go to the movies expect spectacle in > "costume movies", not > accuracy. But where did Hollywood get the idea that 'spectacle' and 'accuracy' need to be mutually exclusive? This assumption has confused me for a long time. The accurate portrayal of just about any period in history is just as spectacular and asthetically-pleasing and often MORE so than any purposefully inaccurate idea of that period dreamed up in Hollywood. Look at British and French historical movies -- not perfect, but a good sight better when it comes to mise-en-scene and costuming. They prioritize those factors, and it doesn't seem to hurt them locally at the box office or on TV. -Tasha __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 13:48:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACIms2q018715 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:48:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIlucC016452; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:47:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIlq8d003985; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:47:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIlm8d003893 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21642 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:47:47 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA14877 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:47:47 -0500 Message-ID: <00f701c3a94d$76ddf720$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031112122126.F36274-100000@shell.siscom.net> <3FB271A7.7050909@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:47:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We are doing lists this year and started a family yahoo group to facilitate it. I went to a bunch of different websites that sells cool stuff and listed the links with what item, size etc next to it. This included some patterns I have wanted, a lovely new belt, etc. I also included sites where I would like gift certificates like Fashion Fabrics Club. Hopefully this year's gifts will be on the mark! Teena who doesn't want another ugly metal dog sculpture like last year! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem > Drea Leed wrote: > > "Christmas presents? Well, anything medieval for the house would work." > > For our wedding, we recieved a chain-mail wall sculpture. I hope they > didn't pay much for it, but I have this fear that they found it as ART > somewhere and spent $400. (picture at > http://www.virtue.to/articles/bath.html ) > > How about gift certificates to the good online fabric retailers? Thai > Silks, G street fabrics, Greenberg & Hammer? > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 13:54:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACIsc2q018748 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:54:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIrvcC017175; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:53:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIrr8d009940; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:53:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACIrn8d009860 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:53:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29733 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:18:28 -0600 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:18:28 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Iris Brooke In-Reply-To: <000901c3a94b$29e9dee0$7142a6d0@castlebooks> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Janet Davis wrote: > > I am trying to locate Iris Brooke, the historical costume design expert > > and wonder if you might point me in the right direction. > I guess my reaction was to wonder if she is still alive - didn't her books > come out in the mid-fifties? Thirties, I think. I presume she's way long gone. Maybe ask just what the lady is looking for ... maybe she doesn't mean Iris Brooke at all. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 14:03:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACJ3p2q019062 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:03:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJ2tcC018257; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:02:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJ2lqc018904; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:02:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f121.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJ2Nqc018452 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:02:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:02:17 -0800 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:02:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:02:16 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2003 19:02:17.0364 (UTC) FILETIME=[7DBE4D40:01C3A94F] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Gift Giving Season Problem X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My family has a wonderful tradition of making Christmas lists. They are general guidelines of things we want. Since we've grown up and moved across the country, they are now even more appreciated. On a list you can get as specific as necessary to get the point across. It's an easy tradition and it's always fun to see what everyone is interested in and how our interests change with the years. Plus, it's a great way to keep in touch! :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 14:04:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACJ4T2q019087 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:04:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJ3dcC018364; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:03:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJ3aqc019754; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:03:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f121.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJ2Nqc018454 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:02:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:02:17 -0800 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:02:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:02:16 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2003 19:02:17.0364 (UTC) FILETIME=[7DBE4D40:01C3A94F] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Gift Giving Season Problem X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My family has a wonderful tradition of making Christmas lists. They are general guidelines of things we want. Since we've grown up and moved across the country, they are now even more appreciated. On a list you can get as specific as necessary to get the point across. It's an easy tradition and it's always fun to see what everyone is interested in and how our interests change with the years. Plus, it's a great way to keep in touch! :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 14:06:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACJ622q019135 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:06:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJ5JcC018510; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:05:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJ5Gqc021433; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:05:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJ5Dqc021308 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:05:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.c1.39254abd (4539) for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:04:56 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:04:55 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/12/2003 1:09:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, cvirtue+dated+1084211004.8e67f8@thibault.org writes: How about gift certificates to the good online fabric retailers? Thai Silks, G street fabrics, Greenberg & Hammer? I believe G Street is longer doing online retail--they stopped last year, and I don't believe they have started again. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 14:06:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACJ6Y2q019161 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:06:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJ5pcC018598; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:05:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJ5pqc022101; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:05:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f121.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJ5mqc021972 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:05:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:05:43 -0800 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:05:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:05:42 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2003 19:05:43.0210 (UTC) FILETIME=[F86FE8A0:01C3A94F] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Gift giving season Problem X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's such a great idea! I think I'll pose this idea to my family. :) jessica >We are doing lists this year and started a family yahoo group to facilitate >it. I went to a bunch of different websites that sells cool stuff and >listed >the links with what item, size etc next to it. This included some patterns >I >have wanted, a lovely new belt, etc. I also included sites where I would >like gift certificates like Fashion Fabrics Club. Hopefully this year's >gifts will be on the mark! > >Teena >who doesn't want another ugly metal dog sculpture like last year! > _________________________________________________________________ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 14:37:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACJax2q019873 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:36:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJa4cC021996; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:36:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJZwqc023145; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:35:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav62.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.197]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJZrqc022972 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:35:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:35:48 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav62.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:35:48 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031109232415.05241470@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel as research tool of the future... Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:35:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2003 19:35:48.0702 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C981FE0:01C3A954] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If I could time travel, I'd never have to sew again - I'd just go back and > have the stuff made and bring it back. The sewing part is a means to an > end, as far as I'm concerned. The real fun is wearing the stuff, and doing > living history in it. Hmm... tempting. But I like saying "I made it myself" too much to do that :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 14:39:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACJd22q019895 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:39:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJcBcC022227; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:38:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJc9qc025431; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:38:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav16.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJc5qc025260 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:38:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:38:00 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav16.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:37:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031112102122.79304.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 761 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:37:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2003 19:38:00.0045 (UTC) FILETIME=[7AE179D0:01C3A954] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > with one exception-"Elizabeth" which I think was absolutely wretched and a total waste of perfectly good film. Hmm, can you tell us why? I'm not in love with that movie, so don't worry about it - I'm just curious. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 14:51:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACJpw2q020126 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:51:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJp0cC023435; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJovqc008312; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:50:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav40.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACJoqqc008135 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:50:47 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav40.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:50:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:45:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2003 19:50:47.0184 (UTC) FILETIME=[44219900:01C3A956] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On this subject: has anyone seen the movie Ridicule? I don't know if it was ever translated in English, but I get the feeling that there was a lot of effort put into the costumes, makeup and general setting of the movie. Of course, it's not my period of choice, I can't even put a date on it (somewhere in the 18th C?), but I'd love to hear what you thought of it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 15:14:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACKEH2q020596 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:14:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKDRcC025627; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:13:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKDOKJ000486; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKDKKJ000402 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:13:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AK1Md-000Cu6-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:13:19 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:34:40 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant References: <3FB263E9.1050904@uvm.edu> In-Reply-To: <3FB263E9.1050904@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hope Greeenberg wrote > > >Marc Carlson wrote: >> What I am objecting to here is really the unconscious condescension >>that is regularly shoved at us that the past was an ugly, dirty place >>where people didn’t even know how to keep reasonably clean, finish >>seams for leather garments, weave proper cloth, and so on. If the >>film industry > >*sigh* Hear! Hear! >Then again, we are still under the spell of social Darwinism, so we >must adhere to the basic tenet: our culture reflects our superiority. >Those aspects of our culture that we prize: bodily cleanliness, >synthetic textiles, etc. cannot be challenged by other times/cultures. >Thus, portrayals of other cultures must include filth, rough textiles, >and poor workmanship. (There is probably no small amount of western >insecurity mixed in here as well...) > >Look on the bright side: the clothing, while not a clue to the >attitudes or capabilities of the period portrayed, can act as a great >indicator to future historians (assuming they will be interested in >such things--the study of history has many fashions as well). For >example, check out the little sleeve bow in: >http://www.thetimelinemovie.com/gallery/friel_anna.jpg >Straight out of last year's catalogs! > >- Hope Ugh! OK, the pair of you have convinced me, I'm not spending money to see this. I shall stay at home with Blackadder and Monty Python - proper costuming! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 15:15:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACKFB2q020605 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:15:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKE3cC025737; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKE1KJ001262; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKDKKJ000401 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:13:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AK1Md-000Cu8-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:13:19 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:11:09 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: time travel References: <200311110330.hAB3UMgb023905@net.indra.com> <20031111055401.60861.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031111055401.60861.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jennifer Fleury wrote > >>Hey, why worry? We saw the trailer for Timeline when we went to The >>Matrix: Revolution. Switch off brain and critical faculties, watch >>Keanu. If scriptwriters worried about logical inconsistencies, there'd >>be no films! I'm seriously considering getting a bunch of re-enactor >>friends together for a Tuesday afternoon showing of Timeline and just >>ripping it to bits! > >>Jean > >As a film maker myself (I do props for TV and films), the horrible >thing is that the scriptwriters often DO worry about logical >inconsistencies. After what seems like thousands of meetings to decide >where we can and can't "cheat", they typically write toward the >accurate and then in shooting, it all sort of crashes and burns. >Between directors, producers, actors and every soul investing 100 bucks >or more it usually gets ripped apart during filming. And the #1 >excuse? "If they're watching for that, they're missing the point" >(!!!!!!!!!!!) Those of us who care about these things are definitely >in the minority. If not the sub-minority. Usually when the "higher >ups" are making the decision to throw logic (and/or history) to the >wind and receive objections from one of the departments trying to make >it realistic, they say, "okay, so there's gonna be 10 people who are >into kwakiutl indian war canoes who will be offended. so what?" And >speaking for the majority of the peopl! > e who > have to make it happen, it's heartbreaking. Our response tends to be >"If only 10 people know, why not do it RIGHT? The ignorant people >won't know the difference and those who do will be impressed" All I >can say is speak up! E-mail the productions via their websites. Shows >DO seem to listen when the feedback gets truly ugly. >I'm currently working on a mid-season replacement TV series which >involves a Los Angeles law firm in the year 2054-we're inventing the >future. It is a period, even if it's not one we can research. And >some of the ideas are fantastic, some are truly terrifying. But I know >they're concerned about how the audience will receive the decisions. >(One advantage of TV over film-feedback can be worked in!) So don't >just resign yourself to ripping things apart, be heard. Even if the >movie is already made, the next production to attempt something >similiar will have followed how it was received and may (slightly) >adjust their production values because of it! Which is not to say that >horrible movies will not continue to be made!!! Anything for the >almighty dollar! > > >Jennifer Fleury >Assistant Property Master >"Century City" >Universal Network Television > Jennifer, "Logical inconsistencies" was probably the wrong phrase for what I meant. I mean the application of basic common sense or high school science that just stops a movie dead in its tracks. In the Matrix - why do the computers need to make the humans believe they're living and walking around, why don't they just keep them unconscious? Humans and dinosaurs co-existing (before Jurassic Park techniques). Those things that you have to allow to happen, or you have no plot. When it comes to feedback, I suspect you have to wait for the productions that get it at least 80% right, where somebody cares and we can say "It would have been even better if...". In any field, the experts are not a large enough field to affect the box office, if the attitude is "it's just a romp, we never intended it to be a history lesson". Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 15:15:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACKFF2q020608 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:15:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKEScC025766; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:14:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKEOKJ001613; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:14:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKDKKJ000400 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:13:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AK1Md-000Cu7-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:13:19 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:37:37 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem References: <20031112122126.F36274-100000@shell.siscom.net> <3FB271A7.7050909@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <3FB271A7.7050909@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote >Drea Leed wrote: >> "Christmas presents? Well, anything medieval for the house would work." > >For our wedding, we recieved a chain-mail wall sculpture. I hope they >didn't pay much for it, but I have this fear that they found it as ART >somewhere and spent $400. (picture at >http://www.virtue.to/articles/bath.html ) > Can't you take it to bits and turn it into a coif or something else useful ;-) ? Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 15:22:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACKMQ2q020689 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:22:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKLMcC026500; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:21:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKLIKJ009071; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:21:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from web80406.mail.yahoo.com (web80406.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hACKLFKJ008930 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:21:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031112202109.51155.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.33.38.23] by web80406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:21:09 PST Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:21:09 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Fleury To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311121901.hACJ0xqd017187@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 764 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I can't imagine that professional >historical costume designers working for the >movie/television industries don't KNOW that. Is it >more pressure from the money-holders, though, that >clamp down on their attempts to get things right as >opposed to "Olden-days for Dummies"? Unfortunately, costume designers don't have final say in anything-as pointed out previously the actors have lots of input, but more often than not it's the director, sometimes the producers. It amazes me how often they look at something wonderful and say "I don't like it". Generally speaking, these are not people who know anything about history, usually it has more to do with putting together nice frames on time and on budget. They are often young people who grew up as filthy rich fashionistas and they only things they personally like are whatever is currently hot. What no Prada in the 16th century? No 7 jeans? This doesn't look right. These poor people-dirty them up! They look too nice! It's truly ridiculous at times and I cannot describe how frustrating. >But where did Hollywood get the idea that 'spectacle' >and 'accuracy' need to be mutually exclusive? This >assumption has confused me for a long time. Me too!! Jennifer Fleury Assistant Property Master "Century City" Universal Network Television _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 15:22:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACKMv2q020698 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:22:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKMCcC026579; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:22:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKMBKJ009977; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:22:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav61.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKLoKJ009494 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:21:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:21:44 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav61.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:21:44 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001001c3a93d$95554b00$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:51:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2003 20:21:44.0536 (UTC) FILETIME=[97330580:01C3A95A] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What I do is hand out a list of things I'd like. Books, both related and unrelated to costuming, DVDs, CDs, and drop a bunch of places for which I'd like gift certificates (fabric stores, supply stores, etc). That way, they have a range of prices they can choose from, and I don't end up with something I can't use. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 15:40:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACKeS2q020957 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:40:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKdZcC028384; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:39:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKdOKJ027466; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:39:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21405.mail.yahoo.com (web21405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hACKdKKJ027393 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:39:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031112203919.56778.qmail@web21405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.82.36.102] by web21405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:39:19 PST Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:39:19 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Cindy Abel wrote: > And what do the director and studio heads want to > see onscreen? The majority > of people who go to the movies expect spectacle in > "costume movies", not > accuracy. And what about film censors(Remember the > Hays office) > Cindy, maybe I'm just too young or unread, but what is the Hays office? Angharat __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 15:47:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACKlc2q021060 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:47:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKkkcC029277; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:46:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKkiKJ005056; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:46:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav58.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKkeKJ004914 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:46:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:46:33 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav58.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:46:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200311110330.hAB3UMgb023905@net.indra.com> <20031111055401.60861.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: time travel Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:45:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2003 20:46:33.0860 (UTC) FILETIME=[0EE7D440:01C3A95E] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In the Matrix - why > do the computers need to make the humans believe they're living and > walking around, why don't they just keep them unconscious? They do explain it, if I remember it right. Something along the lines of "They don't thrive if we don't make them believe they have problems", or some other explanation of the kind. But now we're far away from historical costuming :-) Well... the Matrix did make "the look" popular... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 15:56:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACKuq2q021224 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:56:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKtrcC000468; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:55:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKtp5h014085; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:55:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [199.170.68.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACKtk5h013981 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:55:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hACL1bfU021556; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:01:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:01:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Searching for Victorian costume group... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear All, I'm fairly new to costuming and am eager to learn! I'm primarily interested in the Victorian era (well, yes, the Elizabethan, too...) and am looking for some sort of Victorian 'group' out in my neck of the woods (reenactment, sewing, what have you). I live in Western MA and am surrounded by five colleges and lots of artsy people. I've searched and searched and can't find anything! I would certainly appreciate any info anyone would have! Thanks! Kate Ussailis _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 16:20:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACLKe2q021540 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:20:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACLJfcC002801; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:19:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACLJc5h007571; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:19:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hACLJY5h007527 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:19:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26400 invoked by uid 1005); 12 Nov 2003 21:19:22 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.093702 secs); 12 Nov 2003 21:19:22 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.093702 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2003 21:19:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:19:19 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for Victorian costume group... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031112161658.I41264-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Kate! Great to see you on the list! Everyone, this is my friend Kate. (Kate, list; List, Kate.) She is exceptionally cool and knows everything there is to know about herbs and gardening, as well as being very interested in Victorian costume. Drea On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Catherine Ussailis wrote: > Dear All, > > I'm fairly new to costuming and am eager to learn! I'm primarily > interested in the Victorian era (well, yes, the Elizabethan, too...) and > am looking for some sort of Victorian 'group' out in my neck of the woods > (reenactment, sewing, what have you). I live in Western MA and am > surrounded by five colleges and lots of artsy people. I've searched and > searched and can't find anything! I would certainly appreciate any info > anyone would have! > > Thanks! > > Kate Ussailis > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 16:46:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACLkk2q021891 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:46:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACLidcC005437; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:44:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACLiW5h001777; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:44:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACLiP5h001655 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:44:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.160.219] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6E8DDC0112; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:32:24 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:27:14 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time travel and musketeers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I remember a group of us sitting around in Victorian outfits (don't ask) >discussing movies when one of our number brought up The Three Musketeers. We >all smiled with good thoughts of Oliver Reed, Charlton Heston et al in those >richly made and decorated robes, tunics, caps and gowns. IMHO, Lester's 3/4 M's are some of the best period films ever made. Costumes fit character, they are well inhabited. Film is great, score is great, action is great (and also suited to each character). For me, it's the benchmark of what a period film should be. OK, never mind that they diverged a bit from the details of Dumas.... ;-/ In the strict sense of FILMMAKING, they NAILED it. Just MHO, of course... >"Hmm," the young lady continued, "and I thought Keifer Sutherland looked >great in his - " I refer you back to my marketing statement.... ;-((((((((((( Rima Someday I will copy that dressing gown that Milady wears in her knife fight at home.... wow. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 16:46:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACLkl2q021894 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:46:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACLjncC005607; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:45:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACLjl5h002952; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:45:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACLiN5h001619 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:44:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.160.219] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6E7DDC0112; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:32:23 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1ad.1c23bed2.2ce2dbd5@aol.com> References: <1ad.1c23bed2.2ce2dbd5@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:20:26 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: movies Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >In a message dated 11/11/2003 1:27:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, >gailscott@eos.net writes: > >> What do you think is the best place to write -- the > > studio itself? > >Nah.....the producers. > >While your at it.....write those idiots who did a sequel to "Gone With the >Wind". [but wouldn't let that black writer write a book based on it] Nah...... the MARKETING department, where most decisions are made these days. ;-( For example, Leo is fresh as a daisy under his mask because the Marketing Gurus know that all of his little girl fans don't want to see him looking bad.... I have hope for Girl With a Pearl Earring, precisely because it was not made in Hollywood. All the money was English and done thru the Luxembourg tax deal. Picked up by Lions Gate, which means that all the majors didn't think it was "commercial" enough. Good news. When a movie is "commercial enough", that means it has targeted the lowest common denominator of viewer.... Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 16:59:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACLxe2q022138 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:59:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACLtrd0006702; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:58:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACLn15h005813; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACLiQ5h001682 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:44:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.160.219] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6EADDC0112; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:32:26 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:36:45 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >On this subject: has anyone seen the movie Ridicule? I don't know if it was >ever translated in English, but I get the feeling that there was a lot of >effort put into the costumes, makeup and general setting of the movie. Of >course, it's not my period of choice, I can't even put a date on it >(somewhere in the 18th C?), but I'd love to hear what you thought of it. One of my FAVE movies! Available subtitles only, as well it should be! Time period is Louis XVI. Excellent, excellent, in every respect! Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 17:18:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACMI92q022396 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:18:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACMGFcC008984; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:16:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACMGAeP003183; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:16:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACMG2eP002991 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AK3HN-00076y-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:16:01 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Searching for Victorian costume group... Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:16:19 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c3a96a$993d3a20$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <20031112161658.I41264-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hACMG2eP002991 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Kate! You must live in Amherst or nearby.....(I used to live there). I don't have any contacts for you specifically, but just HAD to tell you about this place to visit sometime while you are on the east coast: http://www.mohonk.com/frameset.htm They have Victorian gatherings in their Victorian Gardens. FABULOUS....I wonder if you contacted them if you might find a group in western New York.... Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 17:23:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACMNK2q022513 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:23:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACMMYcC009752; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:22:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACMMUeP009428; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:22:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from TheWorld.com (pcls3.std.com [192.74.137.143]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACMMQeP009374 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:22:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer (billdashbrickman.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.130.231]) by TheWorld.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with SMTP id hACMMKVX004824 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:22:21 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c3a96b$79a5a700$65aba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> From: "M. Burns" To: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:22:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate, I went to school at Smith and I seem to remember trying to get involved with a Victorian dance group out in that area. (Turned out disastrously, but that was some years ago and I was not so clued in then as I am now). I can try to dig up some more information if that's something you might be interested in. Maura Burns ********** Prophecy was a faith for the ignorant and a diversion for the rich, and I was neither. -(Emma Bull, Bone Dance) >Dear All, > I'm fairly new to costuming and am eager to learn! I'm primarily interested in the Victorian era (well, yes, the Elizabethan, too...) and am looking for some sort of Victorian 'group' out in my neck of the woods (reenactment, sewing, what have you). I live in Western MA and am surrounded by five colleges and lots of artsy people. I've searched and searched and can't find anything! I would certainly appreciate any info anyone would have! > Thanks! > Kate Ussailis _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 17:44:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACMig2q022963 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:44:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACMhhcC011885; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:43:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACMhceP029545; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:43:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.primushost.com (smtp2.primushost.com [209.58.220.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACMhTeQ029306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:43:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp2.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 1AK3mp-0000dI-TZ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:48:31 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 1AK3iK-0006Vs-00; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:43:52 -0500 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:43:35 -0500 (EST) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for Victorian costume group... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you are willing/able to travel to the Boston, MA area I am part of a vintage dance group here. We run events based in 3 main periods, 1860's, 1890's and 1910's. Check out the dance group's website: www.vintagedancers.org Our next dance event is a Vintage tea dance Sunday afternoon December 14, it'll be Ragtime era (1910-20). Our next formal ball will be January 24, 1890's era. Look on the website for a more complete listing of upcoming events. The dancemaster for our group and his wife also sponsor a Civil War era sewing circle approximately one a month. Katy www.vintagevictorian.com On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Catherine Ussailis wrote: >Dear All, > > I'm fairly new to costuming and am eager to learn! I'm primarily >interested in the Victorian era (well, yes, the Elizabethan, too...) and >am looking for some sort of Victorian 'group' out in my neck of the woods >(reenactment, sewing, what have you). I live in Western MA and am >surrounded by five colleges and lots of artsy people. I've searched and >searched and can't find anything! I would certainly appreciate any info >anyone would have! > > Thanks! > > Kate Ussailis > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 17:45:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACMj32q022978 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:45:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACMiCcC011940; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:44:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACMiBeP000166; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:44:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.primushost.com (smtp2.primushost.com [209.58.220.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACMhTeQ029307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:43:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp2.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 1AK3mp-0000dI-TZ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:48:31 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 1AK3iK-0006Vs-00; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:43:52 -0500 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:43:35 -0500 (EST) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for Victorian costume group... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you are willing/able to travel to the Boston, MA area I am part of a vintage dance group here. We run events based in 3 main periods, 1860's, 1890's and 1910's. Check out the dance group's website: www.vintagedancers.org Our next dance event is a Vintage tea dance Sunday afternoon December 14, it'll be Ragtime era (1910-20). Our next formal ball will be January 24, 1890's era. Look on the website for a more complete listing of upcoming events. The dancemaster for our group and his wife also sponsor a Civil War era sewing circle approximately one a month. Katy www.vintagevictorian.com On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Catherine Ussailis wrote: >Dear All, > > I'm fairly new to costuming and am eager to learn! I'm primarily >interested in the Victorian era (well, yes, the Elizabethan, too...) and >am looking for some sort of Victorian 'group' out in my neck of the woods >(reenactment, sewing, what have you). I live in Western MA and am >surrounded by five colleges and lots of artsy people. I've searched and >searched and can't find anything! I would certainly appreciate any info >anyone would have! > > Thanks! > > Kate Ussailis > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 18:04:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACN4h2q023479 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:04:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACN2rcC014129; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:02:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACN2jsL017330; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:02:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20206.mail.yahoo.com (web20206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hACN2YsL017175 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:02:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031112230234.29984.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:02:34 EST Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:02:34 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] More Costumes in Movies To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031112151044.VXKK6745.out002.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-NIET-Metrics: net.indra.com 1080; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Ron Carnegie wrote: > > > > > For what it is worth there is at least one gown. Woo-hoo! Thanks Ron. I was going to go watch it no matter what, but that helps. My fiancee and myself are both naval history movie fans. Just about anything to do with the sea or tall ships is fair game. We don't get to the cinema much, but some films are a must-see on the big screen, and I've kicked myself in the past for not going. :) ===== **************************************** Lady Bella Lucia da Verona *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net *Courtesan Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ ***************************************** http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 19:00:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAD00Z2q024988 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:00:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACNxicC019739; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:59:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACNxgqT007417; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:59:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail10.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail10.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hACNtoqU003460 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) hAD0tdJH004031 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:55:39 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.46.254]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:55:36 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List \(E-mail\)" Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:55:27 -0500 Message-ID: <055601c3a978$73747ed0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Gift Giving Woes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My family hates lists, particularly my sister - they love everything to be a surprise :/ Having said this, they will sometimes use a list as a "guide", and I usually suggest books - I can always use more books, and as they usually order through Amazon or another large retailer I can always return it if it turns out to be something I already have (is seldom a dud - my entire family are book nuts :) ) Luckily my family is wise enough to know that they don't understand the scope of my hobby, and don't try to look for things where I have very specific requirements (cloth, buttons, notions, etc). Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 19:17:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAD0Hp2q025365 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:17:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD0H5cC021427; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:17:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD0GtqT021765; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:16:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD0GoqT021666 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:16:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AK5AH-000Btp-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:16:49 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:24:12 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 761 References: <20031112102122.79304.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A terrible case of knowing too much - why is the poor girl living in draughty, bare-stone Durham Cathedral, instead of a nice cosy wood-panelled palace near London? And if the spy is coming from France to visit Norfolk, why is he landing at Bamburgh, a good 200 miles north? Actually, I thought it gave a really good feel for the political intrigue, but it would have been just as well done in modern dress. The interiors were just so wrong there was no point having it in "period" costume. Jean Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote >> with one exception-"Elizabeth" which I think was absolutely wretched and a >total waste of perfectly good film. > >Hmm, can you tell us why? I'm not in love with that movie, so don't worry >about it - I'm just curious. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 20:14:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAD1E62q026142 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:14:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD1DKcC026125; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:13:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD1DHNK029182; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:13:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD1DDNK029053 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:13:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.6b.1c64b210 (4459) for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:13:06 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <6b.1c64b210.2ce434a2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:13:06 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/12/2003 2:51:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > has anyone seen the movie Ridicule? I saw it. It was kinda OK. The costumes were nothing to bowl you over but were not dreadful. The attitudes were another thing. Emancipated women trying things like deep sea diving just isn't very 18th century to me. It's what I call the "Dr.-Quinn-Medicine-Woman Syndrome". Dress 'em up in all the underpinnings you want and then have them act like Charlie's Angels. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 20:20:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAD1KJ2q026392 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:20:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD1JXcC026450; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:19:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD1J9NK002628; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:19:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD1IuNK002359 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.cc.24d716cd (4459) for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:18:46 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:18:45 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/12/2003 4:46:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, rima@anet.net writes: > Nah...... the MARKETING department, Marketing doesn't come into it until after the film is finished. No the producers are the ones who say "Leo's face can't be dirty" and then the marketing people exclaim "Oh absolutely! You're SO right about this!" If you had a producer with some wherewithal who said "But Leo's face needs to looks filthy" the marketing people would exclaim: "Oh Absolutely! You are SO right about this." If Leo then steps in and says "I can't be seen with a dirty face...clean me up!" The marketing people will exclaim: "Oh Absolutely......." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 20:27:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAD1RY2q026501 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:27:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD1QscC026879; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:26:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD1QrNK007330; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:26:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD1QoNK007297 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:26:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.160.219] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD0457C0242; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:23:16 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6b.1c64b210.2ce434a2@aol.com> References: <6b.1c64b210.2ce434a2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:25:53 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >In a message dated 11/12/2003 2:51:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, >audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > >> has anyone seen the movie Ridicule? > >I saw it. It was kinda OK. The costumes were nothing to bowl you over but >were not dreadful. The attitudes were another thing. Emancipated women trying >things like deep sea diving just isn't very 18th century to me. It's >what I call >the "Dr.-Quinn-Medicine-Woman Syndrome". Dress 'em up in all the underpinnings >you want and then have them act like Charlie's Angels. I don't think they thought of her as emancipated. As I recall, they thought she was insane.... Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 20:27:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAD1Rk2q026508 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:27:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD1R8cC026941; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:27:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD1R7NK007459; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:27:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.yesdesigngroup.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD1QrNK007329 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:26:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.124.160.219] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD0757C0242; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:23:19 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:30:02 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: movies Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >In a message dated 11/12/2003 4:46:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, rima@anet.net >writes: > >> Nah...... the MARKETING department, > >Marketing doesn't come into it until after the film is finished. Oh, no, that's not what I see..... BTW, I own a talent agency - have had nearly 50 movies made. And, from the inception of the project, the studio people are constantly considering what the marketing wonks say they can "sell" or "not sell". >No the producers are the ones who say "Leo's face can't be dirty" and then >the marketing people exclaim "Oh absolutely! You're SO right about this!" I disagree. Just saw it happen on Timeline. (yeah, one of my clients worked on it) >If you had a producer with some wherewithal who said "But Leo's face needs to >looks filthy" the marketing people would exclaim: "Oh Absolutely! You are SO >right about this." again, I disagree.... >If Leo then steps in and says "I can't be seen with a dirty face...clean me >up!" The marketing people will exclaim: "Oh Absolutely......." Now THERE I agree with you. EVERYONE is the person with the Movie Star's opinion! Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 22:09:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAD39Y2q028298 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:09:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD38scC003753; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:08:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD38nqf002249; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:08:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD38jqf002187 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:08:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a213.in-tch.com [66.62.107.13]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAD2lZc16817 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:47:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FB2F652.D0FC1CC1@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:11:14 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem References: <001001c3a93d$95554b00$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bless them for trying! I'd say it's a process of education and redirection. My family tends to do "Christmas lists," or we give gift certificates, which works very well as we all enjoy music, and some of us are voracious readers, but our tastes are very divergent, and we don't live close together, so it's impossible to keep up on what we do and don't already have in our bookshelves. We all have internet access, so this year, I'll probably point them in the direction of places like the Wooded Hamlet, and some online stores that sell wool and spinning/weaving stuff (my big thing at the moment). Oh, it occurs to me that some sites have "wish lists"--at least, Amazon does. If you're wanting books or whatever, you could set one of those up! --sue Manly Summerfield wrote: > > Greetings all. > > I have a question thats a matter of tact (which isnt my strong suit). My > family all knows we do the reinactment gig and some are rather supportive. > The problem comes during the gift giving season when they attempt to give us > gifts they thing fit with the medival hobby. Last year our gifts were quit > pricy yet not useful at all. Is there a way yall would suggest saying, Where > I appreicate your wanting to give us gifts we can use. . . Museum Replicas > is not where to get these things? I dont want to be rude but I dont want > them wasting money on things we cant use. > Last year I got the side laced cotehartie from MR with the large collar and > cuffs. Its a cute dress but Im just never going to wear it and I know it was > expensive. > > Thanks!! > Muirgheal > Molann an obair an fear. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 22:24:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAD3Ot2q028513 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:24:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD3OGcC004917; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:24:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD3OFqf011145; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:24:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav23.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD3OBqf011001 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:24:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:24:05 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav23.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:24:05 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:23:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2003 03:24:05.0403 (UTC) FILETIME=[978876B0:01C3A995] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >On this subject: has anyone seen the movie Ridicule? I don't know if it was > One of my FAVE movies! Available subtitles only, as well it should > be! Time period is Louis XVI. > > Excellent, excellent, in every respect! I liked it a LOT for the historical aspects, but I found it a little depressing. I liked Beaumarchais l'Insolent better, just because it ends better :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 22:33:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAD3XD2q028877 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:33:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD3WYcC005528; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:32:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD3WYqf015532; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:32:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD3WTqg015501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:32:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAD3WpUZ005490 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:32:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAD3Wpp5005488 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:32:51 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:32:51 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <001001c3a93d$95554b00$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> <3FB2F652.D0FC1CC1@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3FB2F652.D0FC1CC1@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311122232.51408.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 12 November 2003 10:11 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote: [snip] > I'd say it's a process of education and redirection. My family tends to > do "Christmas lists," or we give gift certificates, which works very > well as we all enjoy music, and some of us are voracious readers, but > our tastes are very divergent, and we don't live close together, so it's > impossible to keep up on what we do and don't already have in our > bookshelves. Yeah, so does our family. My family has never tried getting me anything toward my costume hobby. However, the times they have attempted buying me clothes or jewelry have resulted in some presents it was truly challenging to accept with a straight face, let alone a simulacrum of pleasure. My sister-in-law, who dresses beautifully, once gave me a horrible brown and yellow scarf, with pink cabbage roses on it, that was an absolute horror. I've worn it all of once--when I was costuming as an illiterate Appalachian granny for a live-action roleplaying game! Nowadays, I just don't ask my relatives for any clothes-related items at all. If you're relatives are persistent about wanting to get you something helpful for your reenactment/costuming hobby, I suggest giving them specific vendor names and item numbers or steer them toward vendors who issue gift certificates. That way, you don't run the risk of getting something exquisitely expensive and well-intended that you cannot use and cannot stand to look at. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 22:41:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAD3fC2q028993 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:41:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD3e3cC005969; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:40:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD3e1qf019178; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav14.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD3dwqf019080 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:39:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:39:52 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav14.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:39:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <055601c3a978$73747ed0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Gift Giving Woes Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:39:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2003 03:39:52.0979 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC551630:01C3A997] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Luckily my family is wise enough to know that they don't understand the > scope of my hobby, and don't try to look for things where I have very > specific requirements (cloth, buttons, notions, etc). I think my parents really understood the scope of my hobby when we went to what was called a "medieval" wedding. Never mind that the bride and groom were in 18th century clothing! I got to shop around with them a little and suggest patterns for family and friends. I ended up bringing the music, correcting the DJ who said that "hydromel" was beer and wincing at every supposedly medieval wedding custom they brought up. It was fun :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 22:53:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAD3rj2q029232 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:53:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD3qwcC006969; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:52:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD3quqf025977; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:52:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD3qqqg025944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:52:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAD3rFUZ005628 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:53:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAD3rF6r005626 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:53:15 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] I need help!!!! Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:53:14 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net> <012f01c3a92c$a41a2d60$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> <3FB24DA8.2080303@uvm.edu> In-Reply-To: <3FB24DA8.2080303@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311122253.14592.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 12 November 2003 10:11 am, Hope Greeenberg wrote: > Sounds like fun! Here are a couple: [snip] Try this one too. http://www.angevintreasures/aenor/womencl.htm -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 12 23:46:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAD4kG2q030526 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:46:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD4jQcC010173; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:45:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD4jNhI024181; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:45:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD4jJhI024147 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:45:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hAD4jION005248 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:45:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.206] (tnt-1-270.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.206])hAD4jDh9005101 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:45:16 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001001c3a93d$95554b00$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> References: <001001c3a93d$95554b00$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:31:25 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:54 AM -0500 11/12/03, Manly Summerfield wrote: >Greetings all. > >I have a question thats a matter of tact (which isnt my strong suit). My >family all knows we do the reinactment gig and some are rather supportive. >The problem comes during the gift giving season when they attempt to give us >gifts they thing fit with the medival hobby. Last year our gifts were quit >pricy yet not useful at all. Is there a way yall would suggest saying, Where >I appreicate your wanting to give us gifts we can use. . . Museum Replicas >is not where to get these things? I dont want to be rude but I dont want >them wasting money on things we cant use. >Last year I got the side laced cotehartie from MR with the large collar and >cuffs. Its a cute dress but Im just never going to wear it and I know it was >expensive. I'm not sure there's any way to do it except having a straightforward talk with people about the issue. Some sort of angle like, "I really appreciate how enthusiastic you are about supporting my interests, and it's incredibly thoughtful of you to give me medieval things, but you know, clothing tastes are awfully tricky. You know all the jokes about the chartreuse sweater from Aunt Marge that you only drag out when she comes to visit? It's hard for someone who isn't actually involved in re-enactment to know the issues involved. It's sort of like trying to buy school uniforms for a child without having the school's dress code available. Of course I cherish anything you give me -- but it may not be appropriate for the events I participate in, which would be such a shame." Well, and on with more of the same. Of course, there's also the technique of engaging them in an enthusiastic conversation about historic clothing where you just happen to go on and on about how impossible it is to find commercially made historic outfits that are aimed at serious re-enactors rather than the "fantasy costume" crowd. But I'm not sure there's such a thing as being too upfront about the issue. For example, you'd think that after four decades of knowing me, my mother would have picked up on a few basics regarding my wardrobe. And yet, one Christmas several years ago, she commented on a "nice sweater" that I had set out to go to Goodwill and I commented that the problem was that it was 100% acrylic and I just didn't care for synthetics. She got this weird look on her face which, at the time, I interpreted as her recognizing that the sweater was one she'd given me several years before. Then few days later she confessed that she'd bought me an acrylic sweater as a present and she was going to exchange it, so could I go shopping with her and point out a suitable variety of items that I _would_ wear so she could choose one and still have the precise gift be a surprise. But still, after four decades .... Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 09:56:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADEu62q022189 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:56:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADErocC012176; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:53:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADErjMd011224; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:53:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADEreMd011125 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:53:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m68.in-tch.com [216.166.191.68]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hADEWUc11324 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:32:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FB39B89.BB831C71@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:56:09 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 761 References: <20031112102122.79304.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, lord, that *would* be a pain! That was stuff I never picked up on because I just didn't know! Well, and I was too busy tearing my hair out over the "collapsing" of several decades' worth of costuming into one, short time period (whatever their dubious reasons for same--it drove me nuts!) I suspect it wouldn't have bugged me that bad if I hadn't known something about the time period. --sue Jean Waddie wrote: > > A terrible case of knowing too much - why is the poor girl living in > draughty, bare-stone Durham Cathedral, instead of a nice cosy > wood-panelled palace near London? And if the spy is coming from France > to visit Norfolk, why is he landing at Bamburgh, a good 200 miles north? > > Actually, I thought it gave a really good feel for the political > intrigue, but it would have been just as well done in modern dress. The > interiors were just so wrong there was no point having it in "period" > costume. > > Jean > > Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote > >> with one exception-"Elizabeth" which I think was absolutely wretched and a > >total waste of perfectly good film. > > > >Hmm, can you tell us why? I'm not in love with that movie, so don't worry > >about it - I'm just curious. > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 11:00:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADG052q022685 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:00:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADFr2cC017179; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADFr06q024875; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hADFqu6q024827 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:52:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9144 invoked by uid 1005); 13 Nov 2003 15:52:50 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 5.294243 secs); 13 Nov 2003 15:52:50 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 5.294243 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2003 15:52:45 -0000 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:52:47 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031113104935.P59211-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For me, hair is the easiest and quickest way to date a movie. I don't know how or why, but my subconscious picks up and dates hairstyles more quickly than costume...especially for movies made in the past 30 years. It's funny, how a movie can have spot-on costume, but the hair and makeup will be fabulously modern. Especially for the leading actors/actresses. Drea On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Cindy Abel wrote: > For those of you who aren't old enough or don't know what the Hays Office > is/was. > > There were a lot of scandals in Hollywood that earned a lot of newscoverage > during the the silent era. There were no movie ratings so some movies were > pretty wild for their day. Hays(forget his first name)became like the > spearhead to "decency in movies" and the Hays Code is named after him.I > caught a clip on him when the History Channel or A&E was doing a segment on > censorship in the movies. Came off as an earnest geek in modern parlance. > Geeky voice too, but speech in the early talkies is fascinating to hear--how > sound in radio, TV and movies has affected American speech in about eighty > years. Anyway, movie censorship became national instead of local(re: the old > "banned in Boston") All studio-produced U.S. movies had to be approved > through the office and this not only affected the script--language, morals, > good ends up winning over evil, etc, but costuming as well. Even if > historically accurate, necklines of the female characters had to abide by > the Hays Code and not be cut too low, no codpieces on the men and no sheer, > or really revealing costumes on the women. This went for contemporary-set > pictures as well. I love to watch the old costume movies when they show on > Turner Classic Movies, miss the opening credits so I can play "Date the > Movie and Costume Critique." > > Cindy Abel > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Angharad ver' Reynulf > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 2:39 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant > > > > --- Cindy Abel wrote: > > > > And what do the director and studio heads want to > > see onscreen? The majority > > of people who go to the movies expect spectacle in > > "costume movies", not > > accuracy. And what about film censors(Remember the > > Hays office) > > > > Cindy, maybe I'm just too young or unread, but what is > the Hays office? > > Angharat > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 11:05:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADG592q022750 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:05:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADG4KcC018228; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:04:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADG32PU003672; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21409.mail.yahoo.com (web21409.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hADG2rPU003532 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:02:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031113160252.82331.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.82.36.102] by web21409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:02:52 PST Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:02:52 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hays Office (was costume in movie rant) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you Cindy! Always fun to learn something new. Angharad, definitely too young to have known that, but somehow never read about it either. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 11:08:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADG8U2q022820 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:08:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADG7dcC018530; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:07:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADG6PPU006670; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:06:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADG6CPU006494 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:06:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id KAA10669 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:05:41 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:05:41 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hADG6CPU006494 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO - > >Look on the bright side: the clothing, while not a clue to the >attitudes or capabilities of the period portrayed, can act as a great >indicator to future historians (assuming they will be interested in >such things--the study of history has many fashions as well). For >example, check out the little sleeve bow in: >http://www.thetimelinemovie.com/gallery/friel_anna.jpg >Straight out of last year's catalogs! And aren't those modern gromments in the eyelets? Those 14th century natives would have really liked that piece of technology that didn't come to pass until the 1820's or so. When I think of all the hours it took me to sew in two large jewelry jump rings(closest I could come to the metal rings reinforcing the eyelets during the Elizabethan era)on either side of each hand-punched eyelet hole on my gown for Ren Faire.... To say nothing of the very chic "medieval peasant look" I could wear that outfit to work. And no headcovering on a female her age--single or not! Nothing to do with modesty, but whether it was anything from a simple kerchief to the latest fashion in headgear for the super-rich, covering all those bad hair days before the advent of hairdressers and the styling tools, products, and hair not one's own grown. Heck, I'll see this movie just to make fun of the costumes, but I'll wait 'til it hits the $1.50 theatre or DVD. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 11:38:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADGcJ2q023715 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:38:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADGaTcC021447; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:36:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADGaMPU003467; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:36:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADGaHPU003390 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:36:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.113] (pm7-113.eos.net [205.133.149.113]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADGaF5S007199 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:36:16 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:37:55 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311130332.hAD3Wiqg015636@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To the person who liked "Elizabeth" (sorry, I deleted the post), you are not alone. Millions of people liked it, so you are in good company. Many people on this list or others could tell you about the laughable historical innacurracies, and how bizarre the interpretation of Elizabethan history is, but I'm not one of them. I will share my top three reasons for thinking the movie is not good: 1) THE POISON DRESS!!!!!! A very fun idea for a bad fantasy movie or an Alexandre Dumas-style historical intrigue. A ridiculous episode for anything "historic." 2) Elizabeth nearly being assassinated at her boating party and no one looking for the assassin. 3) Elizabeth not knowing her lover was married. It's not like the people at court didn't know each other and their families. Oh my, I'm coming up with more reasons. Sex in the drafty castle! What's-his-name the counselor assassinating what's-her-name the Frenchwoman after seducing her! I could go on and on! And as a Catholic I found the end simply offensive, not to mention historically ridiculous. Elizabeth did not wake up one day and put on white makeup, watched by her weeping attendants, so that she could look like a statue of the Virgin Mary for her spiritually starved country to worship. That is a complete misreading of English history, the Reformation, Elizabethan fashion, Catholicism, and Elizabeth herself. No, I take it back, it's really too silly to be offensive. Rant over. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 11:41:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADGfQ2q023836 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:41:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADFixcC016364; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:44:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADFiv6q018072; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:44:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADFis6q018034 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:44:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id JAA10289 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:44:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:44:48 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20031112203919.56778.qmail@web21405.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For those of you who aren't old enough or don't know what the Hays Office is/was. There were a lot of scandals in Hollywood that earned a lot of newscoverage during the the silent era. There were no movie ratings so some movies were pretty wild for their day. Hays(forget his first name)became like the spearhead to "decency in movies" and the Hays Code is named after him.I caught a clip on him when the History Channel or A&E was doing a segment on censorship in the movies. Came off as an earnest geek in modern parlance. Geeky voice too, but speech in the early talkies is fascinating to hear--how sound in radio, TV and movies has affected American speech in about eighty years. Anyway, movie censorship became national instead of local(re: the old "banned in Boston") All studio-produced U.S. movies had to be approved through the office and this not only affected the script--language, morals, good ends up winning over evil, etc, but costuming as well. Even if historically accurate, necklines of the female characters had to abide by the Hays Code and not be cut too low, no codpieces on the men and no sheer, or really revealing costumes on the women. This went for contemporary-set pictures as well. I love to watch the old costume movies when they show on Turner Classic Movies, miss the opening credits so I can play "Date the Movie and Costume Critique." Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Angharad ver' Reynulf Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 2:39 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant --- Cindy Abel wrote: > And what do the director and studio heads want to > see onscreen? The majority > of people who go to the movies expect spectacle in > "costume movies", not > accuracy. And what about film censors(Remember the > Hays office) > Cindy, maybe I'm just too young or unread, but what is the Hays office? Angharat __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 11:41:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADGfo2q023875 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:41:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADGavcC021504; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:36:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADGauPU004006; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:36:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADGaMPU003475 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.113] (pm7-113.eos.net [205.133.149.113]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADGaL5S007222 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:36:21 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:38:02 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311121511.hACFB1or011553@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: costume movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I can't agree with the people who liked the Leonardo diCaprio "Man in the Iron Mask." Awful in every way, IMHO, although I've seen worse. Has anyone seen the Richard Chamberlain version? It's not as good as the 1970s Three Musketeers movies, but it's kind of a lame imitation and so worth watching. Richard Chamberlain, of course, looks excellent. And the dancing (one of my pet peeves in historical movies) actually RESEMBLEs period dancing, although only vaguely. There's a fun French 3 Musketeers movie that came out a few years ago, with Sophie Marcieu (sp?) as D'Artagnan's daughter. We discussed it here at the at the time, and everyone liked the costumes except for the evil woman villain's gown, which is one of those "leading lady" gowns bearing no resemblance to anything ever seen anywhere. While we're on the subject -- someone mentioned "Dangerous Liaisons" as a good costume movie. It is good, although it changed the book quite a bit. But I think "Valmont" is even better, although it changed the book in a completely different way. But it's a more rollicking movie, if you like to see rollicking 18th-century stuff. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 11:49:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADGnS2q024085 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:49:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADBVQcC029847; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:31:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADBVPrQ001396; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:31:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [199.170.68.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADBVLrQ001365 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:31:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hADBbENS025984; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:37:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:37:12 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Victorian stuff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooo! The castle in NY looks dreamy! The pictures of the vintage dancers are amazing! What am I doing out here in the sticks? Thank so much, all! Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 11:49:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADGnS2s024085 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:49:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADArLcC028319; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:53:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADArH8C014103; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:53:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADAr88C014039 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hADAscA25356.; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:54:38 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:53:07 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:52:48 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gift giving season Problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> drea@nospam 11/12/03 05:25pm >>>wrote: >I had the same problem. :) Then I mentioned to my mother, >"Christmas presents? Well, anything medieval for the house would work." >Then, whenever I visit, I bring a Toscano Replicas or Past Times catalog >along, and "leave it behind." for her. The trouble I have with Past Times, at least in its British version, is that the 17th century stuff is mostly "inspired by" rather than actual replicas of objects which could be used for Living History. I have bought a few presents for non-reenactors there, though. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 11:54:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADGsm2q024219 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:54:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADBJOcC029433; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:19:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADBJKrQ025950; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:19:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [199.170.68.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADBJIrQ025935 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:19:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hADBP90M025252; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:25:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:25:07 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] stain help To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001701c3a9c1$15a06000$0300a8c0@susan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Susan wrote: > Hi all, > I got a nice regency type costume at a drama school sale. It is silk/rayon > velvet - dyed by them in shades of blue (I don't know what they used to dye > it). I got it cheap because down the front are several dark brown stains. > Food possibly. Before I cut it up, I'd like to see if I can get the stains > out so I can wear it. Any ideas on what to use? I've not tried to wash > silk velvet before, so I am not sure it is even washable. I do not know if > it has been drycleaned or not. > Funny you should ask. I just got a whole load of silk/rayon velvet scraps from a local woman who makes burn-out velvet clothing...When I asked her, she said to just throw it in the washer and dryer. So I did. The only problem was the lint, but in the washer and the dryer. THough, I think the washer lint was only because they were scraps and not large pieces. The lint trap in the dryer was overflowing, though, and I ended up vacuuming the whole dryer out. The velvet will come out a bit 'distressed' looking, but I quickly found out you can iron it too. Just use a medium setting and iron the back (using steam), not the front as the steam holes in the iron will make marks in the nap. I always thought that that type of velvet had to be dry cleaned, but this woman swears by washing and drying. Oh, there's a small amount of shrinkage, but not much at all. As for the spots, I would see if you could test a small area first and try some regular detergent (I'm thinking of the dye...), and then if that didn't work, I'd try some oxygen bleach, though that again might affect the dye. Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 11:56:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADGsm2s024219 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:56:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD9kUcC024945; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:46:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD9kOt7019124; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:46:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD9kKt7019092 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:46:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hAD9lnA18908.; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:47:49 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:46:16 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:45:47 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 761 (Elizabeth) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooh, yes - when I saw those distinctive patterned columns I thought "What on earth are they doing in Durham Cathedral?" Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk 11/12/03 10:24pm >>> A terrible case of knowing too much - why is the poor girl living in draughty, bare-stone Durham Cathedral, instead of a nice cosy wood-panelled palace near London? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 11:57:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADGvm2q024427 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:57:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADGuqcC023761; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:56:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADGunRh022477; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:56:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADGukRh022335 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:56:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:56:40 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:56:25 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Re: costume movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Well, I can't agree with the people who liked the Leonardo diCaprio "Man in >the Iron Mask." Awful in every way, IMHO, although I've seen worse. I have to admit part of the appeal is two words: Gabriel Burn :). >Has anyone seen the Richard Chamberlain version? Oh Yes! I still remember the scene of Chamberlain strideing through a room and with one hand twirling off his cape and tossing it aside. One of the better adaptations of the book too. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 11:59:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADGsm2u024219 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:59:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD8Z4cC022493; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:35:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD8YvRs019354; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:34:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAD8YrRs019324 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from susan (ip157.usw235.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B95116A6E3 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:28:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001701c3a9c1$15a06000$0300a8c0@susan> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <04ed01c3a80b$1ca09b20$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> <3.0.6.32.20031112094102.00acdc90@pop.directcon.net> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:35:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] stain help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I got a nice regency type costume at a drama school sale. It is silk/rayon velvet - dyed by them in shades of blue (I don't know what they used to dye it). I got it cheap because down the front are several dark brown stains. Food possibly. Before I cut it up, I'd like to see if I can get the stains out so I can wear it. Any ideas on what to use? I've not tried to wash silk velvet before, so I am not sure it is even washable. I do not know if it has been drycleaned or not. As for the Costume movie coming up that I'd like to see - Troy. I mean, cute guys in short skirts -even if they make the costumes more complicated then they need to be, there'll still be something period to look at (men's legs ;-) Susan in chilly washington _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 12:06:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADH6E2q024589 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:06:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADH4CcC024714; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:04:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADH4ARh028858; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:04:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADH47Rh028697 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:04:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hADGpiS6023027 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:51:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031113114535.02f45ed0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:50:59 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Time travel and musketeers In-Reply-To: <200311122146.hACLkN5i003555@net.indra.com> References: <200311122146.hACLkN5i003555@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hADH47Rh028697 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:27:14 -0800, Rima wrote: >IMHO, Lester's 3/4 M's are some of the best period films ever made... >...OK, never mind that they diverged a bit from the details of Dumas.... ;-/ Still, of the "Musketeers" movies I've seen, these stayed closest to the characters and to the character of the books ("Trois Mousquetaires", "Vingt Ans Après", "Le Vicomte de Bragelonne"). If you read carefully, there is *SOOOO* much comedy in them, and the characters get drawn increasingly broadly in the sequels, until you get Porthos being able to move mountains (almost literally) and hold up the roofs of falling caves... Given that the length of the original meant having to break "Mousquetaires" in half, it made theatrical sense to end the first half on a high note -- making D'Artagnan a musketeer much earlier than Dumas made him one. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 12:14:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADHEm2q024720 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:14:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADHBFcC025611; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:11:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADHAMRh005376; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:10:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADH1RRh027054 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:01:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13434 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:01:23 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA07761 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:01:19 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01c3aa07$c2a5e1d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:01:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:37 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth > 3) Elizabeth not knowing her lover was married. It's not like the people at > court didn't know each other and their families. Not only did she know Robert was married, I believe I read that she was present at the wedding! Inaccuracies aside, I do admit to enjoying the movie. I can generally get past bad costumes or historical fiction in movies and enjoy the story as just that... a story being portrayed for my entertainment. If the costumes are good, that is like frosting! :) It also makes me more likely to buy the dvd for the ability to freeze frame and drool. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 12:41:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADHfm2q026312 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:41:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADHadcs028327; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:40:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADHYi60028381; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:34:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADHXJ60027481 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:33:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28454 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:12:41 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA02240 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:12:41 -0500 Message-ID: <004101c3aa09$58d5cca0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costume movies Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:12:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:56 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: costume movies > I have to admit part of the appeal is two words: Gabriel Burn :). > Ooooh.... Gabriel Byrne......... *pant* He is on the laminated list in my wallet! (old timer friends fans will know what I mean!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 12:54:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADHsw2q026375 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:54:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADHsDcC000771; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:54:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADHs960018444; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:54:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADHs560018296 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:54:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63522425CE for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:59:36 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FB3C60A.7040002@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:57:30 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth References: <001b01c3aa07$c2a5e1d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> In-Reply-To: <001b01c3aa07$c2a5e1d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teena Paradise wrote: > Inaccuracies aside, I do admit to enjoying the movie. I can generally get > past bad costumes or historical fiction in movies and enjoy the story as > just that... a story being portrayed for my entertainment. If it's being portrayed as a fantasy romp I have a lot less problem with it than if the hype is telling me it is a historical piece. I'm also ok with movie adaptations that are true to the book, even if they leave parts out, as opposed to ones that change the plot and characters all around. I think the LOTR series is a good example of more or less following the book without messing with it too much, but adapting the story and characters for the screen, even if it is not 100% like the book. I think I liked _Shakespeare in Love_ more than _Elizabeth_ because I knew up front that it was a costume romp and not a real historical event they were trying to portray. Same with _Ever After_. Favorites for being well done and good adaptations are the various Regency movies, _Pride and Prejudice_, the Gwyneth Paltrow _Emma_, and especially _Persuasion_. Really good movies without producers or directors who felt the need to change a story that has stood the test of time into something of their own 'vision'. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 14:26:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADJQP2q007068 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:26:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADJPNcC010933; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:25:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADJPJpm020304; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:25:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from az-awindo1-spam.awin.com (mail.awin.com [65.218.228.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADJLNpn016356 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:21:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from awmail.awin.com (unverified [10.200.20.27]) by az-awindo1-spam.awin.com for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:24:50 -0700 Received: from INET-MTA by awmail.awin.com with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:21:17 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.3 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:21:05 -0700 From: "Tori Ruhl" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hADJLNpn016356 Subject: [h-cost] Costume Movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm going to go ahead and throw my iron into the fire. I guess I'm just strange in the fact that I don't go to see these movies expecting historical accuracy in either the plot or the costumes. I go because they're fun, and for the most part, they do what they're supposed to. Entertain me. I liked Elizabeth. I also liked Gladiator and Braveheart...*gasp* Last of the Mohicans, Dangerous Beauty, Amadeus, The Lion in Winter, Anne of a Thousand Days the list goes on...and to totally freak you out...I enjoyed Disney's Three Musketeers. *shock and horror* now the killing blow...I LIKED A KNIGHT'S TALE! Would I look to it to design my next gown...no...but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the movie. If that makes me an idiot, or beneath those who believe that complete cinematic authenticity is the be all and end all of life as we know it..then so be it. But I'm going to go see Timeline....and I'll probably like it grommets, bows and all. Yes, I know I'm being rather defensive about this.... Tori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 15:13:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADKDX2q024386 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:13:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKBYcC016032; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:11:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKBVaC004515; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:11:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKBRaC004385 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:11:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.b8.4b266810 (657) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:11:17 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:11:17 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2003 11:37:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: > But I think "Valmont" is even better I find "Valmont" unwatchable. I hate the costumes as much as I do the equally unwatchable "Amadeus" [same crew]. I just don't think they get it. I just don't like the design choices. "DL" has much more taste though it's not as accurate as some would like to claim. The book takes place closer to the Revolution and a lot of the gowns and outfits in the movie look very English to me. And the film "Dangerous Liaisons" is based on a play of the book, not the book itself. It was riding on the play's reputation. Still, it's good to have both and people on both sides of the fence. And I don't mean to demean your taste, but do you really like that coat that looks like blue willow china in "Valmont" over that black satin embroidered with seed pearls and silk in "DL"? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 15:15:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADKF12q024596 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:15:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKDicC016240; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:13:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKDhaC006637; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:13:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKDcaC006499 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:13:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.a3.4c28be06 (657) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:13:22 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:13:22 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2003 11:57:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ckinsey@kumc.edu writes: > Well, I can't agree with the people who liked the Leonardo diCaprio > "Man in > >the Iron Mask." Awful in every way, IMHO, although I've seen worse. > Now this I can agree with Leo sux. But the clothes he wears don't. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 15:20:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADKK82q025307 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:20:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKIscC016800; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:18:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKInaC011489; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKIhaC011297 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:18:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.84.1c57047d (657) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:18:16 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <84.1c57047d.2ce54107@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:18:15 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2003 12:54:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > I think the LOTR series is a good example of more or less > following the book without messing with it too much, but adapting the > story and characters for the screen, even if it is not 100% like the book. > And it's STILL dull as watching avocado dip turn black. I HATE it. There, I feel better now. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 15:23:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADKNh2q026580 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:23:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKMMcC017278; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:22:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKMKaC014965; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:22:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKMGaC014850 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:22:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1e6.133dd1a4 (657) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:22:01 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1e6.133dd1a4.2ce541e9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:22:01 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2003 12:54:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > especially _Persuasion_. Yes. A real sleeper. It has great costumes. "Sense and Sensibility" has beautiful, researched costumes with a polished edge [That I certainly don't mind] but in "Persuasion" there's a rough, real edge to things that I admire. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 15:28:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADKRw2q027724 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:27:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKPtcC017721; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:25:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKPpaC018384; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:25:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKPlaC018222 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:25:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.155.27473202 (657) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:25:39 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <155.27473202.2ce542c3@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:25:39 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2003 2:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tori.Ruhl@awin.com writes: > I LIKED A KNIGHT'S TALE! Ouch! Well, don't worry about it. I mean I liked David Lynch's "Dune"! I know we've been throwing around opinions here and I certainly am just stating my preferences and don't mean to insult anyone. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 15:29:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADKT02q027943 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:29:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKRbcC017887; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:27:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKRaaC020019; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:27:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com [64.136.21.170]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hADKRWaC019861 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:27:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCmBnwdE7H0y1z8kRNbf1vvcX7HvWwKDFYg==">; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:26:49 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail23.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JEV3FX76; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:26:49 PST Received: from [67.73.169.56] by webmail23.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:26:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.73.169.56] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Original-From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:26:22 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: seamstrix@juno.com Message-Id: <20031113.122649.5792.492561@webmail23.nyc.untd.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -- Dawn wrote: I think I liked _Shakespeare in Love_ more than _Elizabeth_ because I knew up front that it was a costume romp and not a real historical event they were trying to portray. Same with _Ever After_. I definitely liked SiL better than 'Eliza-bletch' because inspite of it being a total fiction that never claimed to be anything but, it actually captured Elizabethan England in a much truer form than The Other Elizabethan Movie. SiL had London streets teeming with life, the Queen lived in a palace that was actually livable, people behaved in believable ways given the standards of the time, and the costuming was fab. I even liked Great Bess's peacock ruff which has no historic parallels that I'm aware of. I knew the The Other Elizabethan Movie was bad when it had Joseph Fiennes as the love interest and he wasn't sexy or appealing at all inspite of being waaaaaay hot in SiL. And poor old Walsingham must have been a veritable tornado in his grave, imagine that stanch old Puritan dallying with the dowager Queen of Scotland and then offing her himself!! Good heavens, he had people for that sort of thing!!! Should I mention that Walsingham wasn't even working for the queen that early in her reign or just content myself with the fact that there's no way he could have gotten close to the DQS without everyone in HER court knowing and most of the French Court as well so that when she turned up dead they'd know exactly who had done it? How about the absurdity of a crossbow wielding assassin hiding in a tree and trying to hit the Queen across a lake at night thru a curtain? I had no idea they had laserguided nightscopes back that far. Should we tell them that crossbows aren't actually exactly like high powered rifles or just let them wallow in their ignorance? And that re-loading thing will be a real pain in a place with no leverage.... We've covered the stupid poison dress thing (an excellent reason to wear a shift under your dress now isn't it?), the living in a drafty old cathedral thing, and the Queen as icon of Mary the Mother....I think the scene of her cutting her hair off was supposed to mimic the martyr being shorn of her hair at the beginning of the movie, but the utter wrongness of the analogy could only have been created by someone with a tentative grasp of both Catholicism and the Reformation in England. As was previously stated. And then we have the scene where Robert Dudley lectures Elizabeth on acting like a queen....huh??!!! I don't think that anyone ever had to lecture Elizabeth on that after the age of 9, but if anyone did it certainly wasn't Dudley! To me the crowning insult to the whole thing was that they actually made 'educational packets' and sent them around to schools to use in conjunction with the movie which they presented as an accurate retelling of Elizabethan history. I saw the 'official packets'. Getting down off the soapbox, Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 15:29:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADKTi2q028093 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:29:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKSWcC017980; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:28:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKSUaC020853; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:28:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKSQaC020709 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:28:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1d4.145f2f95 (657) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:28:13 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1d4.145f2f95.2ce5435d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:28:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] double posts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for the double postings. AOL is being weird. It seems to be sending a copy of my post before and then after the spellchecker. Go figure..... I've closed down AOL and started it back up. We'll see how many of this one gets posted. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 15:43:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADKhW2q001430 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:43:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKgDcC019374; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:42:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKgBaC003557; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:42:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADKg5aC003388 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:42:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82A9F1B285C for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:41:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 17192-07 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:41:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7702D1B2CDE for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:41:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <053201c3aa26$952e1410$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <84.1c57047d.2ce54107@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:41:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth > In a message dated 11/13/2003 12:54:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, > dawn@reddawn.net writes: > > > I think the LOTR series is a good example of more or less > > following the book without messing with it too much, but adapting the > > story and characters for the screen, even if it is not 100% like the book. > > > > And it's STILL dull as watching avocado dip turn black. I HATE it. I don't like the casting (well, Frodo, for instance, Elijah Wood couldn't act his way out of a paper bag, but I love Merry and Pippin) and the computerized elements just don't cut it for me. Those Ents are all wrong! They look entirely too spindly. Also don't care for Liv Tyler.. And the messing that WAS done with the books was entirely unnecessary. That said, I will go see the third one--because the local SCA shire will likely go in a pack, and that will add an element of fun. Dianne > > > There, I feel better now. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 16:44:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADLib2q011449 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:44:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADLhecC025400; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:43:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADLhbIr001313; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:43:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from web60305.mail.yahoo.com (web60305.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.118.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hADLhVIr001150 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:43:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031113214326.15030.qmail@web60305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.52.135.9] by web60305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:43:26 PST Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:43:26 -0800 (PST) From: Jen Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031113.122649.5792.492561@webmail23.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What's interesting to me about Elizabeth is that everyone seems mad that it is not historically accurate. The information about packets distributed to schools is particularly surprising to me, because if you listen to the director's commentary, it's very clear he is not trying to do a biopic, but rather a dramatic story "based on" the life of Elizabeth. Timeframes are compressed, characters combined, and some stuff entirely made up. When you listen to the director, he is totally unapologetic about this, and actually points out with delight the things that ARE historically accurate. I strongly recommend the director's commentary for anyone who is fascinated by the craft of filmmaking -- it is like a directing class tutorial -- he explains all his choices. I prefer to look at Elizabeth as a fantasy on Elizabeth's life, examining the question -- what would it take to transform a young girl into the powerful leader she became? What would it do to her? How would she need to change? etc etc. I think that is fascinating. If you didn't know it was about a real person, it would simply be a dramatic, compelling story. As such, I like this movie very much, as a sort of emotional impressionistic portrait of Elizabeth... --Jen Small seamstrix@juno.com wrote: -- Dawn wrote: I think I liked _Shakespeare in Love_ more than _Elizabeth_ because I knew up front that it was a costume romp and not a real historical event they were trying to portray. Same with _Ever After_. I definitely liked SiL better than 'Eliza-bletch' because inspite of it being a total fiction that never claimed to be anything but, it actually captured Elizabethan England in a much truer form than The Other Elizabethan Movie. SiL had London streets teeming with life, the Queen lived in a palace that was actually livable, people behaved in believable ways given the standards of the time, and the costuming was fab. I even liked Great Bess's peacock ruff which has no historic parallels that I'm aware of. I knew the The Other Elizabethan Movie was bad when it had Joseph Fiennes as the love interest and he wasn't sexy or appealing at all inspite of being waaaaaay hot in SiL. And poor old Walsingham must have been a veritable tornado in his grave, imagine that stanch old Puritan dallying with the dowager Queen of Scotland and then offing her himself!! Good heavens, he had people for that sort of thing!!! Should I mention that Walsingham wasn't even working for the queen that early in her reign or just content myself with the fact that there's no way he could have gotten close to the DQS without everyone in HER court knowing and most of the French Court as well so that when she turned up dead they'd know exactly who had done it? How about the absurdity of a crossbow wielding assassin hiding in a tree and trying to hit the Queen across a lake at night thru a curtain? I had no idea they had laserguided nightscopes back that far. Should we tell them that crossbows aren't actually exactly like high powered rifles or just let them wallow in their ignorance? And that re-loading thing will be a real pain in a place with no leverage.... We've covered the stupid poison dress thing (an excellent reason to wear a shift under your dress now isn't it?), the living in a drafty old cathedral thing, and the Queen as icon of Mary the Mother....I think the scene of her cutting her hair off was supposed to mimic the martyr being shorn of her hair at the beginning of the movie, but the utter wrongness of the analogy could only have been created by someone with a tentative grasp of both Catholicism and the Reformation in England. As was previously stated. And then we have the scene where Robert Dudley lectures Elizabeth on acting like a queen....huh??!!! I don't think that anyone ever had to lecture Elizabeth on that after the age of 9, but if anyone did it certainly wasn't Dudley! To me the crowning insult to the whole thing was that they actually made 'educational packets' and sent them around to schools to use in conjunction with the movie which they presented as an accurate retelling of Elizabethan history. I saw the 'official packets'. Getting down off the soapbox, Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costum --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 16:46:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADLkA2q011453 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:46:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADLimcC025489; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:44:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADLimIr002270; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:44:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav21.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.125]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADLijIr002141 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:44:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:44:39 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav21.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:44:39 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:44:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2003 21:44:39.0962 (UTC) FILETIME=[573287A0:01C3AA2F] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I will share my top three reasons for thinking the movie is not good: Actually, those reasons you mention are all the things in the movie I didn't really pay attention to :-) I didn't even remember there was a "poison dress" in there. I rarely pay attention to love intrigue and most of the times I fast-forward sex scenes (not because they make me uncomfortable, just because they're usually totally useless to the plot and often boring and stereotyped). I never, ever trust movies for representing faithfully historical events - in fact, I now rarely trust even books - so that's not even the beginning of a god/bad movie criteria for me - in fact, it could have been any other queen than Elizabeth and it wouldn't have made any difference to me (except for the time period). Maybe that's why I often get confused as to what is really happening in a movie. The "important" details seem uninteresting. I like "mood" more than contents, and I usually don't like romance. I remember costumes and mental images of strong moments and some scenes. I can rarely retell a movie, even if I can always retell a book in detail. Your reasons for not liking the move are all good. I guess I just didn't take it as a serious endeavour to represent what might actually have happened :-) Well, at least there were a lot of men in full Elizabethan! (Though I think there were more of these in Dangerous Beauty) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 16:52:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADLqS2q011584 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:52:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADLpQcC026083; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:51:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADLp0Ir008061; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav17.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADLosIr007872 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:50:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:50:47 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav17.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:50:47 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031113104935.P59211-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:50:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2003 21:50:47.0653 (UTC) FILETIME=[325BB950:01C3AA30] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It's funny, how a movie can have spot-on costume, but the hair and makeup > will be fabulously modern. Especially for the leading actors/actresses. Oh, this is very noticeable in Star Trek! Hair is right in the time period. And all those girls in the mini-skirts in the first series... You can even compare the evolution between the first and last seasons of the same serie, and see the hairstyles changing to follow current fashion - even on aliens! And then you can compare 7 of 9 (Voyager) and T'Pal (Enterprise). They have the same basic form-fitting outfit, BUT the fashion for low waisted pants has gone crazy in the few years between the two series, so while 7 of 9 had her belt about around the tips of her hipbones, TPal's belt is almost on her butt because it's so low! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 17:18:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADMIt2q012406 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:18:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADMIBcC028889; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:18:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADMI6qe003641; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:18:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav58.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADMI1qe003463 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:17:56 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav58.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:17:55 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001b01c3aa07$c2a5e1d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> <3FB3C60A.7040002@reddawn.net> Subject: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:12:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2003 22:17:56.0152 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD04F380:01C3AA33] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I think the LOTR series is a good example of more or less > following the book without messing with it too much, but adapting the > story and characters for the screen, even if it is not 100% like the book. Oh NO. They really betrayed some basic things of Tolkien's universe. The first movie was fine, whatever they changed actually made sense in Tolkien's world. But they totally messed up the second one. They didn't respect the characters or the rules of that world, and that had me really, really mad at them, because I actually loved the first movie and thought the second one would be as good as the first one. Cast of characters and costumes do fit nicely with my vision of the whole thing, by the way. Things below are not in order of importance 1) Gandalf never says where he goes and how long he'll be gone. That's one of the things that make him unpopular with the king. And there he goes in the movie and says something along the lines of "Look for me in two days at sunrise"... This goes against all that we know of Gandalf. 2) The Elves of Elrond have absolutely nothing to do at Helm's Deep. They couldn't care less what happens to humans. Their time in Middle-Earth is done and the time of Man is coming, so they're leaving, not coming to the help of some gang of humans who live several days, if not weeks, away from them. Anyway, they wouldn't have been welcome there, because Men are afraid of Elves - they consider them stuff of legends, and treacherous. 3) There were no women or children at Helm's Deep. They had been sent to shelters in the mountains before the attack. Of course, it makes things more dramatic, but it doesn't make sense. It's one of the things I wouldn't have bothered criticizing if it hadn't been added to a bunch of other bad things. 4) Treebeard knows trees are being cut. In the movie, he learns that trees have been cut only when he comes right before them. But treebeard is guardian of the trees, and the whole forest has a kind of "awareness". There is no way this number of trees could have been cut without their knowledge. 5) Arwen doesn't go to the Grey Heavens. That nonsense was probably added to give Ms Tyler more screentime. 6) There is no real magic in Tolkien's world. Well.. there is some in Bilbo (it was meant as a children's book) but it disappears in LotR. So the kind of magic nonsense that Gandalf performs on Theoden and his spectacular transformation is totally opposed to the meaning of the book. Theoden was just very hopeless and brooding, and Gandalf brought him a ray of hope. That's all there is to it in the book. 7) Then there's that stupid scene where the half-dead Aragorn is being picked up by his horse... 8) Gimli making a fool of himself - we're not in D&D fantasy here! Dwarves are extremely polite, extremely proud of their beards. They wouldn't go about slurping and dribbling beer all over themselves in front of a King!! And then Gimly was bouncing up and down for some VERY misplaced coming relief. 9) And don't get me started on these stupid dreams Aragorn has about Arwen all the time... After all that happened, I told myself the movie could still be saved, if only... but no, they had to: 10) Totally messed up Faramir's character. Faramir is my favourite character of the whole movie. He's the gentle, wise, educated brother of Boromir. They made him rash, hard and had him drag Frodo all the way to Osgiliath (several days further - there is no way they could have gone that far and walk back again in the little time they had), while he was supposed to be Gandalf's friend and help him out. That last thing did it for me. I stopped watching what happened after that. In fact, I barely remember the end of the movie, I was SO mad. I'm sure I'm forgetting many things that went wrong. But suffice to say that I think Peter Jackson seriously betrayed Tolkien's universe in this second part of LOTR. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 17:58:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADMww2q013480 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:58:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADMwBcC002546; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:58:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADMw5eb008231; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:58:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADMvueb008091 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:57:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id QAA06046 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:57:54 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costume Movies Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:57:54 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I guess I'm just strange in the fact that I don't go to see these movies expecting historical accuracy in either the plot or the costumes. Who does? But ain't it fun to play real history vs what's up on screen on one level while you are enjoying the movie. Or not. And while I was watching "Braveheart"(which I went to because it was a "MelMovie"--the historical setting was just a bonus) I could also admire the great cutting in the battle scenes where you think you see more than you do, while of course, rooting for Mel! Then you and/or your friends rewrite the whole movie and redo the costumes on the way home(and recheck your personal costume source library when you do get home to confirm you were right! Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 18:03:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADN3U2q013642 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:03:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADN2OcC003074; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:02:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADN2Neb012287; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:02:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [199.170.68.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADN2Keb012231 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:02:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hADN8Ceo024211; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:08:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:08:08 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001101c3a96b$79a5a700$65aba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate, I went to school at Smith and I seem to remember trying to get involved with a Victorian dance group out in that area. (Turned out disastrously, but that was some years ago and I was not so clued in then as I am now). I can try to dig up some more information if that's something you might be interested in. Maura Burns Maura, Yes, that would be something I"m interested in. I'm more into the costuming part at the moment, but am dying to get together with people who are interested in anything similar. I actually like in Northampton and can check it out here...can you recommend a particular person I should approach? Thanks! Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 18:07:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADN7w2q013789 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:07:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADN71cC003566; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADN6web016399; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADN6reb016265 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:06:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from p77-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.77] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AKQY6-0004Lj-00; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:06:51 +1300 Message-ID: <004c01c3aa3a$cfc316c0$4dcdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001b01c3aa07$c2a5e1d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP><3FB3C60A.7040002@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:06:45 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > 5) Arwen doesn't go to the Grey Heavens. That nonsense was probably added to > give Ms Tyler more screentime. I will say just one thing here, various contracts had elements that said she had to be in certain movies. Not all casting or screen time is dependant on the director.... (some of the actors on the movie can be very loose with their lips on this type of subject;)) > I'm sure I'm forgetting many things that went wrong. But suffice to say that > I think Peter Jackson seriously betrayed Tolkien's universe in this second > part of LOTR. Again, don't just blame the director. Although I was a bit surprised by things I heard in regards to making some characters more prominant.. at a time when actors for other characters hadn't turned up yet, but where those characters are known to be more.. active. Movies are the result of a huge machine not one person, and don't forget the power of test screenings. They can totally alter how a movie is finished. I personally enjoyed the 2nd movie more, probably because I found the books really difficult to get through and there were only a few characters I could get into the skin of. I dropped the book as soon as Eowyn was taken away... I didn't realise there was more of course;) but I was just annoyed. I can now go through the books to read passages quite happily now that I can differenciate the characters. And I don't have the actors in my head when I do read through the books which is nice. But then I did have the same trouble with Emma. After seeing the recentish BBC version I can read the book and keep track of what's going on. Again I don't have the actors in my head as the characters too. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 18:15:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADNFV2q014064 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:15:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADNEpcC004262; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:14:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADNEneb022878; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:14:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADNEjeb022831 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:14:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from p77-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.77] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AKQfi-0001gZ-00; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:14:43 +1300 Message-ID: <005801c3aa3b$ea9aed00$4dcdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] stain help Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:14:40 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I always thought that that type of velvet had to be dry cleaned, but > this woman swears by washing and drying. Oh, there's a small amount of > shrinkage, but not much at all. I tend to wash everything on cold, using spot cleaners on stains etc and using detergents specifically for cold washes. If you have the outdoor space, drying in on a washing line helps.. or rather hanging it out on a rainy day and then letting it dry out there brings up the pile again. Someone mentioned this on another list and people cried out about it;) But it works. Even for heavy cotton velvet. It gets rid of wrinkles:) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 18:19:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADNJc2q014247 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:19:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADNIScC004621; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:18:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADNIQeb026045; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:18:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADNILeb025913 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:18:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1df.135dd08b (4184) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:18:05 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1df.135dd08b.2ce56b2d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:18:05 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2003 4:44:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, jenrsmall@yahoo.com writes: > As such, I like this movie very much, as a sort of emotional > impressionistic portrait of Elizabeth... > Interesting take. I saw it as this dark Gothic tale.....and then wondered why they put any historical slant on it. They shoulda just made the persons in it up too. A made up country and made up Renn. Queen. But still, as it is, it's a fun movie. BTW....I HATE the men's stuff. Yuk! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 18:22:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADNMR2q014366 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:22:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADNLLcC004935; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:21:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADNLKeb028324; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:21:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADNLGeb028208 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:21:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.ba.49aca0c1 (4184) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:21:03 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:21:03 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2003 4:45:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > I fast-forward sex scenes (not because they make me uncomfortable, > just because they're usually totally useless to the plot and often boring > and stereotyped). Uh.... don't do this with: Women in Love Blue Velvet Dr. Zhivago Howard's End Wings of the Dove ect. ect. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 18:24:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADNOH2q014446 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:24:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADNN8cC005137; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:23:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADNN7eb029843; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:23:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADNN3eb029720 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:23:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.b9.38f445f1 (4184) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:22:44 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:22:44 EST Subject: Re: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2003 5:19:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > Oh NO. They really betrayed some basic things of Tolkien's universe. Wait....I thought you didn't pay attention to details..... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 19:16:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE0Gi2q015936 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:16:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE0FscC009590; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:15:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE0Fk49010995; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:15:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE0Fg49010949 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:15:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.123.100] [4.42.20.84] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ADD7258011C; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:12:07 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:11:48 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: [h-cost] Re: costume movies Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Well, I can't agree with the people who liked the Leonardo diCaprio "Man in >the Iron Mask." Awful in every way, IMHO, although I've seen worse. Has >anyone seen the Richard Chamberlain version? It's not as good as the 1970s >Three Musketeers movies, but it's kind of a lame imitation and so worth >watching. Richard Chamberlain, of course, looks excellent. And the dancing >(one of my pet peeves in historical movies) actually RESEMBLEs period >dancing, although only vaguely. I'm with you! Both "Iron Masks" diverged quite a bit from the Dumas stories, but I found the Leo version unwatchable (except for the few moments when Irons and Byrne were alone together, valiantly trying to drag the film uphill!) Chamberlain version is lovely, if not accurate - remember it was made for TV, and they had NO money and NO time! And RC is ALWAYS preferable to Surf-Accent Leo in a period film where they actually let him say, "you're gonna wear it, and you're gonna love it!" Woulda thrown something at the screen at that moment, but my hubby wisely restrained me. *sigh* >While we're on the subject -- someone mentioned "Dangerous Liaisons" as a >good costume movie. It is good, although it changed the book quite a bit. >But I think "Valmont" is even better, although it changed the book in a >completely different way. But it's a more rollicking movie, if you like to >see rollicking 18th-century stuff. I'm with you on that one too.... Rima movies movies movies _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 19:55:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE0tU2q017470 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:55:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE0nmcC012346; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:49:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE0nh49002916; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE0nf49002860 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:49:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from 39jz301 ([24.192.37.48]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20031114004856.IYAX320036.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:48:56 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c3aa49$312c7ec0$3025c018@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1df.135dd08b.2ce56b2d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:49:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.192.37.48] using ID at Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:48:56 -0500 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > I saw it as this dark Gothic tale.....and then wondered why they put any > historical slant on it. They shoulda just made the persons in it up too. A made up > country and made up Renn. Queen. That would have made more sense... > But still, as it is, it's a fun movie. Copious historical problems aside, I just didn't find it all that compelling, despite a wonderful performance by Cate Blanchett. I completely bought her as Elizabeth. > BTW....I HATE the men's stuff. Yuk! Joseph Fiennes looked like he was wearing his leftover shirts from Shakespeare in Love. And he was given very little to do other than sit around and look moody. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 20:16:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE1GF2q018293 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:16:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE1FUcC013990; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:15:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE1FSYi017887; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:15:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (mail.pixcamera.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE1FMYi017805 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:15:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.123.100] [4.42.20.84] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABD160301BA; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:11:45 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:13:30 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > now the killing blow...I LIKED A KNIGHT'S TALE! >Yes, I know I'm being rather defensive about this.... > >Tori Hey, we all have our dirty pleasure movies.... I could see where Knights Tale would end up on someone's list. It's adorable, as long as you don't think it's historical. ;-D Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 20:58:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE1wY2q019991 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:58:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE1vncC016799; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:57:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE1vld2011369; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:57:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from web80407.mail.yahoo.com (web80407.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAE1vjd2011290 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:57:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031114015739.7583.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.33.38.23] by web80407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:57:39 PST Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:57:39 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Fleury To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311132259.hADMwxec009052@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Elizabeth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Other reasons I hated "Elizabeth" (Besides those listed by others) were that "they", be it producers, marketers or whomever, touted the fact that they had 6 historians working together with the screenwriter and director-which to me means someone was claiming it to be historically accurate. Nothing could be further from the truth. (The earl of Sussex a catholic conspirator!!!) Also, the costume designer said in a couple interviews that she was seizing the opportunity to portray the "at home" type of clothing they might have worn and that she basically had to invent it because nobody really has any idea what that was. Or perhaps SHE didn't have any idea what that was, which would explain the costumes. The gown Elizabeth wears in the scene where Anjou arrives from his boat and proceeds to whisper vulgar insults into her ear particularly stands out in my mind as shockingly bad, second only to the hat she's wearing with it. I have a fuzzy recollection of a beaded indian go! wn somewhere nearish to the end as well. Oh,and the maids of honor with the big red sashes on their backs-there's something I've seen repeated at RenFaires ever since. And if you're going to have them dance La Volta, why not actually do it right rather than throwing in all that flamenco? I suppose it was more dramatic with the finger snapping, clapping and hip thrusts to someone unfamiliar or unconcerned about the time period. Also there's the perhaps unfair fact that I thought Attenborough was a painfully poor Burghley and Cate Blanchett is such a "nostril" actress. One caveat, though, I thought the beginning sequence with Mary Tudor was fantastic. I have to agree with those who preferred "Shakespeare In Love" simply because it never claimed to be more than what it was. "Elizabeth" just for me had no redeeming features, bad acting, bad history, bad costuming. Jennifer Fleury Assistant Property Master "Century City" Universal Network Television _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 22:02:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE32C2q022864 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:02:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE31McC020708; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:01:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE31IkX016213; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:01:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE31CkX016132 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:01:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08976 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:25:55 -0600 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:25:55 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth In-Reply-To: <20031114015739.7583.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Jennifer Fleury wrote: > Also, the costume designer said in a couple interviews that she was > seizing the opportunity to portray the "at home" type of clothing they > might have worn and that she basically had to invent it because nobody > really has any idea what that was. Or perhaps SHE didn't have any > idea what that was, which would explain the costumes. Back when the movie first came out, someone posted a link to (or description of?) an interview with the costume designer, in which she said that the director forbade her to consult reference books because he wanted her ideas to be fresh and new. Something about him grabbing the books out of her hand and taking them away. (I can just imagine what my reaction to that would be. "I don't care if you are my boss, that Janet Arnold book cost me $150 and it's out of print, and if you destroy it you're going to replace it even if it means you'll have to pay for a reprinting!") Or am I thinking of a different movie? As for "at-home" dress, I recall that Elizabeth sometimes received visitors in her bedroom, dressed in some degree of underwear. And there were dressing-gowns and less-formal ensembles. But they certainly didn't have an equivalent to jeans and t-shirts at that class level, and the men didn't walk around court in their shirts. Perhaps the designer should have done up full Elizabethans in blue denim. (I once saw a production of a 17th c. play in which the costume designer used period cuts and clothing, but modern fabrics that had instant significance to the audience -- denim, black leather, etc. Yes, it was weird.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 22:08:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE38X2q023204 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:08:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE37fcC021200; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:07:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE37dkX019629; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:07:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail1.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE37akY019569 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:07:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) hAE37XBJ001678 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:07:35 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.46.254]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:07:31 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List \(E-mail\)" Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:07:22 -0500 Message-ID: <05c001c3aa5c$6d036cc0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Elizabeth (the movie) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To me the crowning insult to the whole thing was that they actually made 'educational packets' and sent them around to schools to use in conjunction with the movie which they presented as an accurate retelling of Elizabethan history. I saw the 'official packets'. Getting down off the soapbox, Karen - I could forgive them anything but this! I'm usually pretty good at suspending disbelief and I actually enjoy this movie. However, IMHO clearly aiming this film at the educational market crosses a line, not for it's costumes but for it's tortured history. For school, I think they should worry about getting the basic story down, and if they can get the costumes right it's gravy. - Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 22:14:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE3EE2q023473 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:14:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3DZcC021740; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:13:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3DYkX023664; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav60.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.195]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3DVkX023562 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:13:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:13:25 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav60.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:13:25 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:12:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2003 03:13:25.0927 (UTC) FILETIME=[44C9EB70:01C3AA5D] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I LIKED A KNIGHT'S TALE! You are not alone. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 22:20:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE3Ks2q023784 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:20:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3KIcC022235; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:20:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3KHkX027633; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:20:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav5.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3KFkX027581 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:20:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:20:08 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav5.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:20:08 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:19:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2003 03:20:08.0533 (UTC) FILETIME=[34C2B850:01C3AA5E] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Oh NO. They really betrayed some basic things of Tolkien's universe. > > Wait....I thought you didn't pay attention to details..... In MOVIES. That one was a BOOK before being a movie, and I do crave details in books :-) And I read it 9 times, so I think I remember a lot of things fairly well... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 22:21:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE3Ls2q023838 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:21:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3LFcC022281; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:21:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3LEkX028047; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:21:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3LCkX027979 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:21:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:21:07 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:21:07 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:20:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2003 03:21:07.0344 (UTC) FILETIME=[57D09100:01C3AA5E] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I fast-forward sex scenes (not because they make me uncomfortable, > > just because they're usually totally useless to the plot and often boring > > and stereotyped). > > Uh.... don't do this with: > > Women in Love > Blue Velvet > Dr. Zhivago > Howard's End > Wings of the Dove > ect. > ect. Sorry, I haven't seen any of those. Maybe I should :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 22:23:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE3NH2q023900 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:23:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3MgcC022373; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:22:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3MfkX028768; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3MYkY028695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:22:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAE3MuUZ008141 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:22:57 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAE3Mt64008139 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:22:55 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:22:55 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031113104935.P59211-100000@shell.siscom.net> In-Reply-To: <20031113104935.P59211-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200311132222.55427.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 13 November 2003 10:52 am, Drea Leed wrote: > For me, hair is the easiest and quickest way to date a movie. I don't know > how or why, but my subconscious picks up and dates hairstyles more quickly > than costume...especially for movies made in the past 30 years. > > It's funny, how a movie can have spot-on costume, but the hair and makeup > will be fabulously modern. Especially for the leading actors/actresses. "Hollywood and History" pointed this out. As you say, it's truest of the leads, particularly the female lead (sometimes they let the male lead have a hairstyle that's more truly period, especially if he's not the heartthrob type). -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 22:44:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE3iH2q024952 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:44:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3hgcC023659; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:43:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3hekX009527; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:43:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3hbkX009466 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:43:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1dc.14618497 (4552) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:43:24 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1dc.14618497.2ce5a95c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:43:24 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2003 10:02:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: > denim, > black leather, etc. Yes, it was weird.) > Especially since indigo dyed cotton twill [denim] has been around since the 19th century and black leather since the stone age. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 22:51:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE3pi2q025352 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:51:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3p9cC024063; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:51:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3p8kX013859; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:51:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3kWkX011050 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:46:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1d4.1467c00a (4552) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:46:24 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1d4.1467c00a.2ce5aa10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:46:24 EST Subject: Re: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2003 10:20:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > And I read it 9 times How many times have you read "Le morte d'Arthur"? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 13 22:55:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE3tC2q025564 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:55:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3sdcC024273; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:54:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3sckX015643; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:54:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE3sakX015597 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:54:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.121.27b59ce2 (4552) for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:49:13 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <121.27b59ce2.2ce5aab9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:49:13 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2003 10:21:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > Maybe I should :-) > Yes you should!!!! You've never seen "Dr Zhivago"??? Yikes! What a treat you have in store! All the others too....though "Blue Velvet" is a very disturbing yet fantastic film. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 00:08:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE58G2q029366 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 00:08:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE57bcC028118; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:07:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE57YB3022594; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:07:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f21.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE56MB3021944 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:06:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:06:17 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.47 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:06:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.47] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:06:16 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2003 05:06:17.0338 (UTC) FILETIME=[08DD3DA0:01C3AA6D] Subject: [h-cost] Costume Movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "Tori Ruhl" >I guess I'm just strange in the fact that I don't go to see these movies >expecting historical accuracy in either the plot or the costumes. I go >because >they're fun, and for the most part, they do what they're supposed to. >Entertain >me... Actually I tend to agree (and hope I've been clear on this). I don't care if things aren't perfectly accurate - my major objection with Timeline is that the producers have clearly missed the point of the book (OTOH looking at many of the reviews of the book, clearly they weren't the only ones). I would prefer it if there was some attempt to be vaguely accurate, but I don't expect to see it, and am not dissapointed when it doesn't appear. I certainly haven't been suggesting that people not go to Timeline (or any other such movie), I just don't think people should waste their time if they are expecting accuracy. When I go to see Timeline, I'm going to watch a fantasy movie that happens to share a title and some plot points with a book I enjoyed. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 01:23:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE6NL2q029435 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:23:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE6MecC002728; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE6Mcpm028718; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:22:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE6MZpm028643 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:22:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.40.3716ea75 (4592) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:22:23 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <40.3716ea75.2ce5ce9e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:22:22 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's kinda funny we've been complaining about inaccuracies in film costuming but fantasy films have been the main films discussed. LOTR has no historical president. The only reason it gets a Dark Age treatment is it mimics Norse and Christian legends usually put to paper in those years, but you could put them all in boots and miniskirts [I wouldn't] and it would not be periodly inaccurate....there is no period. Just the suggestion of one. Remember "Legend"? Awful movie but great costumes. I loved the black wedding dress. Let's see. What are some other good inaccurate films that actually are enhanced by their inaccuracies? "Sleepy Hollow" comes 1st to mind. Great clothes but not exactly true to the 1790s. "Shakespeare in Love" would fit here too. How about "Satyricon"? Then there're films like "Brazil" and "Blade Runner" and even that "Dune" I like. Futuristic but given a period flare. All three interesting costume solutions. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 01:27:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE6R92q029445 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:27:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE6QZcC002834; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:26:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE6QZpm000570; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:26:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE6QWpm000527 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:26:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.184.230e98f8 (4592) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:26:22 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <184.230e98f8.2ce5cf8e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:26:22 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/14/2003 1:23:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > LOTR has no historical > president. Not a Washington or Lincoln in the whole thing! That's: LOTR has no historical precedent. Sorry.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 03:22:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE8ML2q025320 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:22:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE8LecC007583; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:21:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE8LbWH020355; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:21:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pengo.systems.pipex.net (pengo.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE8LXWH020298 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:21:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by pengo.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 599B54C0021B for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:21:27 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002e01c3aa88$47ddd3a0$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001b01c3aa07$c2a5e1d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP><3FB3C60A.7040002@reddawn.net> <004c01c3aa3a$cfc316c0$4dcdadcb@michaela> Subject: Re: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:36:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Historic Costumers, (snip) > > 5) Arwen doesn't go to the Grey Heavens. That nonsense was probably added > > to give Ms Tyler more screentime. > > I will say just one thing here, various contracts had elements that said she > had to be in certain movies. Not all casting or screen time is dependant on > the director.... (some of the actors on the movie can be very loose with > their lips on this type of subject;)) > > > I'm sure I'm forgetting many things that went wrong. But suffice to say that > > I think Peter Jackson seriously betrayed Tolkien's universe in this second > > part of LOTR. > > Again, don't just blame the director. Although I was a bit surprised by > things I heard in regards to making some characters more prominant.. at a > time when actors for other characters hadn't turned up yet, but where those > characters are known to be more.. active. > > Movies are the result of a huge machine not one person, and don't forget the > power of test screenings. They can totally alter how a movie is finished. > (snip) So is that why it seems to have been decided to cut Saruman out of the third film? (Like Christopher Lee - I'm very shocked.) And while we're talking about this trilogy of films, has anyone seen the exhibition of costumes and props in London? (As I'm rather disabled, the journey will be quite an undertaking for me, even though it's not too far, so I'd like to have some confidence that it'll be worth the effort.) Many thanks, Linda Walton. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 04:26:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE9QW2q016332 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 04:26:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE9P9cC010578; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:25:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE9P6Lv017782; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:25:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAE9P1Lv017751 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from p4-max20.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.161.68] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AKaCI-0000Jg-00; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:24:59 +1300 Message-ID: <003a01c3aa91$2613d680$44a176cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001b01c3aa07$c2a5e1d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP><3FB3C60A.7040002@reddawn.net><004c01c3aa3a$cfc316c0$4dcdadcb@michaela> <002e01c3aa88$47ddd3a0$97725651@bella> Subject: Re: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:24:46 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > So is that why it seems to have been decided to cut Saruman out of the third > film? (Like Christopher Lee - I'm very shocked.) Yes, I heard that just after my email.. I was rather shocked.. more from the reasoning for it being cut (if it doesn't work then why include it in the dvd version?) > And while we're talking about this trilogy of films, has anyone seen the > exhibition of costumes and props in London? (As I'm rather disabled, the > journey will be quite an undertaking for me, even though it's not too far, > so I'd like to have some confidence that it'll be worth the effort.) I saw it at the Te Papa exhibit. I found the lighting to be very dim and it was quite difficult to see some of the costumes. It depends on what your interest is. I was overwhelmed by the amount of armour, but there was a heck of a lot of it, and you may have some questions answered if you do have questions about it. I learnt more afterwards as I got to handle the maille and scales etc somewhere else. The costumes aren't terribly numerous, but Saruman's robes are really rather tasty and there is still mud on Arwen's riding costume (probably Hollywood mud;) ) Gandalf the grey's costume is there, as are all the Fellowship's costumes. I couldn't tell if they were before or after the cloaks they were given.. I suspect before... as I don't remember *the* cloaks... There are numerous smaller props and jewellery items. It's pretty big, especially if you watch all the videos at each station... though they are very interesting I spent 3 hours there as I love the behind the scenes of the film industry (even if being involved can be infuriating;) ) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 09:03:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEE3p2q012983 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:03:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEE3BcC023439; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:03:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEE32Me011690; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEE2xMe011629 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:02:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from oldwaylane.net (dialup-171.75.40.156.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net [171.75.40.156]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA16910 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:02:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FB4EF33.20607@oldwaylane.net> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:05:23 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth References: <001b01c3aa07$c2a5e1d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP><3FB3C60A.7040002@reddawn.net> <004c01c3aa3a$cfc316c0$4dcdadcb@michaela> <002e01c3aa88$47ddd3a0$97725651@bella> In-Reply-To: <002e01c3aa88$47ddd3a0$97725651@bella> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Linda Walton wrote: > And while we're talking about this trilogy of films, has anyone seen the > exhibition of costumes and props in London? (As I'm rather disabled, the > journey will be quite an undertaking for me, even though it's not too far, > so I'd like to have some confidence that it'll be worth the effort.) If you go to you can see some reviews from a few people who have been to it both in New Zealand and in London (click on the small text links at the top bar). There should be another review going up sometime weekend. I can look for the link at TORn for the costume pics if you'd like. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 09:31:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEEV12q015309 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:31:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEUPcC026073; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:30:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEUOMe026154; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:30:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEULMe026080 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:30:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m215.in-tch.com [216.166.191.215]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAEE9Ac29482 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:09:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FB4E792.40A1A540@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:32:50 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies References: <40.3716ea75.2ce5ce9e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd add "Forever After" to that list. And "Pirates of the Caribbean." --sue AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > Let's see. What are some other good inaccurate films that actually are > enhanced by their inaccuracies? "Sleepy Hollow" comes 1st to mind. Great clothes but > not exactly true to the 1790s. "Shakespeare in Love" would fit here too. How > about "Satyricon"? > > Then there're films like "Brazil" and "Blade Runner" and even that "Dune" I > like. Futuristic but given a period flare. All three interesting costume > solutions. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 09:44:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEEiM2q016118 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:44:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEhjcC027067; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:43:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEhhMe004000; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:43:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEhdMe003952 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:43:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hAEEj9A11503.; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:45:09 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:43:38 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:43:22 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Time travel and musketeers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hAEEhdMe003952 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I saw "The Three Musketeers" when it first came out, I was disappointed that the few genuinely dramatic moments were played down in favour of comedy - but perhaps that was just youthful idealism on my part. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> webwarren@earthlink.net 11/13/03 04:50pm >>> >Still, of the "Musketeers" movies I've seen, these stayed closest to the >characters and to the character of the books ("Trois Mousquetaires", "Vingt >Ans Après", "Le Vicomte de Bragelonne"). If you read carefully, there is >*SOOOO* much comedy in them... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 09:47:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEEll2q016244 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:47:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEl4cC027425; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEl3Me006084; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:47:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEkiMe005882 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:47:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C6D36D04 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:46:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AKfDe-0007E4-00 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:46:42 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant In-Reply-To: <200311132222.55427.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <20031113104935.P59211-100000@shell.siscom.net> <200311132222.55427.cathy@thyrsus.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:46:42 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy Raymond wrote: > "Hollywood and History" pointed this out. As you say, it's truest of the > leads, particularly the female lead (sometimes they let the male lead have a > hairstyle that's more truly period, especially if he's not the heartthrob > type). One of my favourite examples of the leads getting away with bad costume is "Dangerous Beauty", in which the male lead wears modern trousers and everyone else wears venetian breeches as are appropriate to the time and place. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 09:53:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEEr92q016413 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:53:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEqWcC027965; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:52:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEqVMe009731; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:52:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEqSMe009692 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:52:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hAEErxA12211.; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:53:59 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:27 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:05 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I've only read LOTR about 3 times, and that was a long time ago, but personally I found it quite acceptable that the films make more of Aragorn's love for Arwen. Tolkien hints at it so obliquely that it's easy to miss on a first reading, and then we're suddenly told in Book 3 that they are going to be married! The first time I read it I thought that Eowyn was going to be the romantic interest. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 09:54:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEEsl2q016487 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:54:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEs2cC028095; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEs1Me010444; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (sea2-f22.sea2.hotmail.com [207.68.165.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEEs0Me010397 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:53:54 -0800 Received: from 62.64.141.127 by sea2fd.sea2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:53:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [62.64.141.127] X-Originating-Email: [wnslater@hotmail.com] From: "Wendy Slater" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:53:53 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2003 14:53:54.0826 (UTC) FILETIME=[1FF6F6A0:01C3AABF] Subject: [h-cost] Edwardian corsetry X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am researching the shooting of the Russian royal family in 1918: as you may know, the bodies of the women (the Empress and her four adult daughters) were found to be partially protected by corsets stuffed with diamond jewellery -- the bullets were said to have ricocheted off their bodies. My questions to historical costume experts are this: how might an Edwardian corset have been padded with jewels? What would have been the effect on the person wearing it given that around 4 lbs of jewels were in each corset? Also, what other undergarments would the women have worn? They were wearing 'travelling suits' of dark blue cloth: what might these have been like, and what would have been worn underneath? I'd be more than grateful for any hints. With thanks in advance Wendy. _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 10:04:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEF4J2q016849 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:04:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEF3acC028789; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:03:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEF3Ylh015946; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:03:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEF3Wlh015925 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:03:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.105] (pm7-105.eos.net [205.133.149.105]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEF3U5S028094 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:03:30 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:05:01 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311132259.hADMwxec009052@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: valmont X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I didn't say the costumes were better in "Valmont," I said I liked the movie better than DL. And while DL was a movie version of the play (itself a version of the book), it had a different ending than the play. Which had a different ending from the book. And of course Valmont had a different ending too -- much kinder than all the rest of them, especially the book, which was purposefully nasty! Anyway, I thought it was a more entertaining movie, and as a costume drama, it made the time period (historically accurate or not) look very different from the way DL portrayed it. I don't care about costume accuracy as much as script. If I have to have one or the other (and usually I do), I'll take a good plot and good acting over good costumes. "A Knight's Tale" is one of my favorite movies, but not for the costumes! It is nice to have a "Persuasion" every now and then -- when you get both. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 10:10:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEFAa2q017051 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:10:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEF9OcC029329; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEF9Nlh019673; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:09:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEF9Llh019658 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:09:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.105] (pm7-105.eos.net [205.133.149.105]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEF9J5S029418 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:09:19 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:10:51 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311121901.hACJ0xqd017187@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember reading at the time that the director didn't have any interest in historical accuracy. At least, unlike Oliver Stone, he didn't try to say he was telling the "real story." But some people at the studio did say so. And if one isn't trying for reality, one should at least try for plausibility! Geez! I enjoyed watching the movie because it was so stupid, and it was very pretty. I don't know how British people feel about it, but if someone made a movie about, say, Abraham Lincoln's life and invented that much (making Mary Todd Lincoln a seducing, murdering spy, for instance, or having Lincoln's son assassinated by a poison lollypop -- or, hey this is a good one, having the famous ghost of Lincoln pop up all the time!) we Americans would be howling in the aisles. And as for exploring what power would do to a young woman -- the director should have picked some other young woman. Any resemblance to Elizabeth's actual self was purely accidental. Why invent a different one? Why not just tell a different story? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 10:17:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEFHf2q017306 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:17:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFGtcC000252; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:16:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFGplh024591; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:16:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFGmlh024561 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:16:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15579 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:16:48 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA05140 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:16:48 -0500 Message-ID: <013301c3aac2$529c7af0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: valmont Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:16:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I stayed out of this discussion until now, but as DL is one of my favorite movies both for the story and the costumes, I will put in my 2 cents. There will never be a day (for me at least) where Annette Benning's portrayal of the Marquise de Merteuil can hold a candle to Glenn Close's performance. I just didn't believe her in the role. Further, as much as I love Colin Firth, John Malkovitch was at his peak in that movie and was mesmerizing. Did I enjoy Valmont? Yes, but for me it was no match for Dangerous Liaisons. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:05 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: valmont > > > I didn't say the costumes were better in "Valmont," I said I liked the movie > better than DL. And while DL was a movie version of the play (itself a > version of the book), it had a different ending than the play. Which had a > different ending from the book. And of course Valmont had a different ending > too -- much kinder than all the rest of them, especially the book, which was > purposefully nasty! Anyway, I thought it was a more entertaining movie, and > as a costume drama, it made the time period (historically accurate or not) > look very different from the way DL portrayed it. > > I don't care about costume accuracy as much as script. If I have to have one > or the other (and usually I do), I'll take a good plot and good acting over > good costumes. "A Knight's Tale" is one of my favorite movies, but not for > the costumes! It is nice to have a "Persuasion" every now and then -- when > you get both. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 10:36:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEFab2q018042 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:36:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFZmcC002337; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:35:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFZklh008122; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:35:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40106.mail.yahoo.com (web40106.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAEFZglh007985 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:35:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031114153536.66010.qmail@web40106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.9.70] by web40106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:35:36 PST Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:35:36 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] florence or venice 1520-1560 period fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I absolutely love the clothing of the period in florence and venice. Is Dupioni silk appropriate for the era? I'd like to use it for my gown. Camacia is lightweight linen I'd like to be as historically accurate as possible, allowing for budget and the desert climate of extreme lower Arizona. Thank you, (again) Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 10:39:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEFdr2q018185 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:39:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFdCcC002653; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:39:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFdBlh010458; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:39:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFd7lh010410 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:39:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be92.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.146]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2171E5EE314 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:39:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c3aac5$f57439e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:42:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] Lady's purse (christmas gift) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello. I have added new things to my website, a lady's embroidered purse wich is going to be a christmas gift for a friend, http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purse.htm and i have also added new progress to the new embroidered suit i am making. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm I have not started to embroider the jacket yeat, but i started to "warm up" with an extra waistcoat for the suit with a wreath of wild briars. I am in an embroidery freak state of mind :-) Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 10:47:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEFlY2q018485 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:47:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFkncC003484; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFkllh015929; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:46:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFkhlh015884 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:46:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17806 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:46:43 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA06840 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:46:43 -0500 Message-ID: <016301c3aac6$8077d790$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c3aac5$f57439e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady's purse (christmas gift) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:46:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, can I be your friend too? ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:42 AM Subject: [h-cost] Lady's purse (christmas gift) > Hello. > I have added new things to my website, a lady's embroidered purse wich is > going to be a christmas gift for a friend, > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purse.htm > and i have also added new progress to the new embroidered suit i am making. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm > I have not started to embroider the jacket yeat, but i started to "warm up" > with an extra waistcoat for the suit with a wreath of wild briars. I am in > an embroidery freak state of mind :-) > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 10:48:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEFmV2q018526 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:48:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFlrcC003625; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:47:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFlqlh016702; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:47:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFlnlh016641 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:47:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hAEFllP0007262 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:47:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031114104135.01c34b08@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:47:51 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] florence or venice 1520-1560 period fabric In-Reply-To: <20031114153536.66010.qmail@web40106.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey there... my .02 While there is some evidence supporting the creation of a silk similar to dupioni - Luca Mola's book on the Venetian silk industry - the evidence suggests that the material was specifically a fabric for 'domestic use' and not a good enough quality fabric for fashion or export. Closer fabrics to the original would be if you could find a tuxedo satin silk (high gloss finish) , or a silk twill (non-high gloss finish) Good luck. Bridgette >I absolutely love the clothing of the period in florence and venice. Is >Dupioni silk appropriate for the era? I'd like to use it for my gown. >Camacia is lightweight linen I'd like to be as historically accurate as >possible, allowing for budget and the desert climate of extreme lower >Arizona. Thank you, (again) Angelique Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 10:50:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEFoM2q018622 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:50:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFnicC003800; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:49:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEFnhlh018068; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAEFndlh017964 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:49:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-66-127-115-106.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@66.127.115.106 with plain) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2003 15:49:33 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:49:21 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <1D0DBE44-16BA-11D8-8850-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I don't know how British people feel about it, but if someone made a > movie about, say, Abraham Lincoln's life and invented that much > (making Mary > Todd Lincoln a seducing, murdering spy, for instance, or having > Lincoln's > son assassinated by a poison lollypop -- or, hey this is a good one, > having > the famous ghost of Lincoln pop up all the time!) we Americans would be > howling in the aisles. Honestly, with as much as the Teeming Millions know about their country's history, and despite the best efforts of PBS, all of these "plot points" you mentioned would probably be accepted as plausible, if not fact, by your average American movie goer. But then, I'm a jaded twenty-something who doesn't know any better... ;) Sarah _________________________________________________ http://www.modehistorique.com "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure their security deserve neither..." Benjamin Franklin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 11:06:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEG6U2q019318 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:06:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEG5dcC005573; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:05:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEG5a03000578; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:05:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40909.mail.yahoo.com (web40909.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAEG5X03000441 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:05:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031114160524.17993.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40909.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:05:24 PST Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:05:24 -0800 (PST) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311141539.hAEFdOlj010645@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Let's see. What are some other good inaccurate films > that actually are > enhanced by their inaccuracies? The BBC's Gormenghast production was gorgeous, costume-wise (though the lighting throughout seemed remarkably too bright for the original Peake-ian vision). We bought the DVD just to admire the fantastical and yet vaguely historical clothing. The BBC's website does a fairly nice job presenting the costume designer's process/vision: http://makeashorterlink.com/?F6BC32A86 -Tasha __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 11:11:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEGBn2q019536 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:11:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEG5xcC005602; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:05:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEG5x03000882; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:05:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40909.mail.yahoo.com (web40909.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAEG5X03000443 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:05:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031114160524.17993.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40909.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:05:24 PST Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:05:24 -0800 (PST) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311141539.hAEFdOlj010645@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Let's see. What are some other good inaccurate films > that actually are > enhanced by their inaccuracies? The BBC's Gormenghast production was gorgeous, costume-wise (though the lighting throughout seemed remarkably too bright for the original Peake-ian vision). We bought the DVD just to admire the fantastical and yet vaguely historical clothing. The BBC's website does a fairly nice job presenting the costume designer's process/vision: http://makeashorterlink.com/?F6BC32A86 -Tasha __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 11:12:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEGCJ2q019560 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:12:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGBccC006429; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:11:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGBZ03005289; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:11:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGBQ03005171 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hAEGCvA18266.; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:12:57 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:11:25 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:11:04 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady's purse (christmas gift) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They're lovely, Bjarne. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 11/14/03 03:42pm >>> Hello. I have added new things to my website, a lady's embroidered purse wich is going to be a christmas gift for a friend, http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purse.htm and i have also added new progress to the new embroidered suit i am making. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm I have not started to embroider the jacket yeat, but i started to "warm up" with an extra waistcoat for the suit with a wreath of wild briars. I am in an embroidery freak state of mind :-) Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 11:25:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEGPA2q020072 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:25:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGOGcC008001; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:24:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGOF03015838; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:24:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGOD03015727 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:24:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1a9.1cb89e0a (4592) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:23:59 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1a9.1cb89e0a.2ce65b9e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:23:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: valmont To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/14/2003 10:17:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, bkessinger@ureach.com writes: > Did I > enjoy Valmont? Yes, but for me it was no match for Dangerous Liaisons. > > Here Here! [or is that Hear! Hear!?] Except I didn't enjoy "Valmont". I thought it clunky and leaden and, as you say, the actors are too young and not convincing. Though I did like the portrayal of Madam de Valonge [sp] in it. "DL" is superior in every respect IMHO. Down to the music. I know Gail [was it?] wants it to be rollicking. But it's not "Tom Jones" or "Joseph Andrews". No one in these tales is trying to destroy others lives just for sport. The "DL" characters are sinister to the max. Just for their own amusement. Nothing rollicking about it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 11:29:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEGTI2q020234 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:29:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGSVcC008600; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:28:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGST03019348; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:28:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGSP03019281 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:28:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip116.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.116]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B9B16A83D for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:28:23 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:28:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Message-ID: <3FB49227.6997.564A5907@localhost> Priority: normal References: <200311132222.55427.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > One of my favourite examples of the leads getting away with bad > costume is "Dangerous Beauty", in which the male lead wears modern > trousers and everyone else wears venetian breeches as are appropriate > to the time and place. The part about that movie which gets me giggling (until I see all the young ladies in my area imitating it) is the flap front dress so that you can see the courtesan's breeches. It's especially funny when you know that a "paperdoll" of what courtesans wore (and that they wore them under the dress unseen) had to have been used as reference. They are assuming the "flap" was actually on the dress, rather than just a "paperdoll" device to show what was worn beneath. And most of them leave off the flap part entirely (as was done in the movie.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 11:37:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEGbu2q020579 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:37:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGb8cC009374; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGb703026263; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:37:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGb403026140 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.76.34bc566a (4592) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:36:53 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <76.34bc566a.2ce65ea5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:36:53 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/14/2003 10:50:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, sarah@modehistorique.com writes: > Honestly, with as much as the Teeming Millions know about their > country's history, and despite the best efforts of PBS, all of these > "plot points" you mentioned would probably be accepted as plausible, if > not fact, by your average American movie goer. > No Kidding... They did this TV film about the Confederate spy Rose Greenhow. She's buried here in Wilmington, NC, where I live and everyone here knows her story. We laughed out asses off at this picture. In it she secretly has a crush on Pinkerton. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! And at the end they put her up against a wall and shoot her. That's not how she died! The real story is much more interesting and even better cinematically. If you want to know....she was caught passing info she'd gleaned from her senator husband and others who attended her many Washington social events. Because she was a senator's wife they gave her a second chance and told her if she was caught helping the South again, it was curtains. She went to England to raise money for the Confederacy and on her return, while trying to run the blockade at Fort Fisher, NC was about to get caught. She insisted she be put in a life boat. But it was night and the seas were rough and the small boat capsized. Her body was found washed up in the morning. She had lots of gold hidden in her clothing, so she sank like a stone. A much more dramatic ending than a firing squad, no? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 11:40:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEGe22q020675 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGdDcC009677; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:39:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGdC03027954; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:39:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f5.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEGd903027799 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:39:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:39:03 -0800 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:39:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:39:03 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2003 16:39:03.0790 (UTC) FILETIME=[D06678E0:01C3AACD] Subject: [h-cost] Edwardian corsetry X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't have anything to add to this at all, but I wanted to tell you that this sounds so EXTREMELY interesting!!!! I, and I'm sure many others here, would love to see your research progress and any results you might come upon. Good luck in your search!!! :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 12:27:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEHRA2q026928 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:27:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHQTcC014928; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:26:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHQPHO012508; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:26:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAEHQKHO012333 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:26:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-66-127-115-106.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@66.127.115.106 with plain) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2003 17:26:14 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:26:01 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <76.34bc566a.2ce65ea5@aol.com> Message-Id: <9DFC8446-16C7-11D8-8850-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If you want to know....she was caught passing info she'd gleaned from > her > senator husband and others who attended her many Washington social > events. > Because she was a senator's wife they gave her a second chance and > told her if she > was caught helping the South again, it was curtains. She went to > England to > raise money for the Confederacy and on her return, while trying to run > the > blockade at Fort Fisher, NC was about to get caught. She insisted she > be put in a > life boat. But it was night and the seas were rough and the small boat > capsized. > Her body was found washed up in the morning. She had lots of gold > hidden in > her clothing, so she sank like a stone. > > A much more dramatic ending than a firing squad, no? Definitely! Just like QEI's life was infinitely more interesting than "Elizabeth" made it out to be. It irks me when Hollywood decides that the real or original story isn't good enough and then tampers with it. You'd think some script writers thought they were God, or something... Or the directors, or producers, or marketers... Whoever ended up making the final decision on movies that resemble nothing of the original book/historical personage's life. I'm just reminded of Gone With The Wind, a movie which left out the fact that Scarlett had three children, one by each of her husbands, but that in the end, the book and the movie matched up pretty seamlessly, save for that one fact. And the Princess Bride, which still managed to be a delightful movie despite deviating from the original book here and there. Of course, the reasons why these two movies in particular were held true to the original story could have had something to do with the intense involvement of the authors on the filming process. And as for the obligatory costume content: Walter Plunket was the sole reason I was drawn into historical costuming. His designs were and still are, some of the very best period costumes to ever come out of Hollywood. Even though they're not 100% historically accurate, they're a heck of a lot closer than the majority. Particularly for that era of filmmaking... Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 12:34:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEHYT2q027290 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:34:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHXkcC015705; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:33:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHXiHO019429; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:33:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAEHXbHO019238 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:33:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OpblUaxTK+Xpsg3UzqEITv8=">; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:32:54 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JEYBV9LB; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:32:54 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:18:32 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady's purse (christmas gift) Message-ID: <20031114.093206.1256.4.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,5-45,47-51,53-58 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO beautiful. If I do even a quarter as well as you, I'll count it a success. :-) Arlys On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:11:04 +0000 "Kate M Bunting" writes: > They're lovely, Bjarne. > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 11/14/03 03:42pm >>> > Hello. > I have added new things to my website, a lady's embroidered purse > wich > is > going to be a christmas gift for a friend, > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purse.htm > and i have also added new progress to the new embroidered suit i am > making. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm > I have not started to embroider the jacket yeat, but i started to > "warm > up" > with an extra waistcoat for the suit with a wreath of wild briars. I > am > in > an embroidery freak state of mind :-) > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email > Security System. For more information on a proactive email security > service working around the clock, around the globe, visit > http://www.messagelabs.com > ________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 12:37:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEHbN2q027403 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:37:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHafcC016026; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:36:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHaeHO022244; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:36:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHaZHO022162 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:36:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA22579 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:36:35 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA22568 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:36:35 -0500 Message-ID: <021301c3aad5$d98f50b0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <9DFC8446-16C7-11D8-8850-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:36:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My like or dislike of a movie generally has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not it is like the book. I will give you an example of a movie that is excellent and a classic despite the fact it has only the basics in common with the book.... The Shining. As I said previously, when I go to the movies, I am there to be entertained by the story the filmmakers are telling. I do not go for a costume lesson nor a history lesson. If I want to know what happens in the book, I read the book. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth > Definitely! Just like QEI's life was infinitely more interesting than > "Elizabeth" made it out to be. It irks me when Hollywood decides that > the real or original story isn't good enough and then tampers with it. > You'd think some script writers thought they were God, or something... > Or the directors, or producers, or marketers... Whoever ended up making > the final decision on movies that resemble nothing of the original > book/historical personage's life. > > I'm just reminded of Gone With The Wind, a movie which left out the > fact that Scarlett had three children, one by each of her husbands, but > that in the end, the book and the movie matched up pretty seamlessly, > save for that one fact. And the Princess Bride, which still managed to > be a delightful movie despite deviating from the original book here and > there. Of course, the reasons why these two movies in particular were > held true to the original story could have had something to do with the > intense involvement of the authors on the filming process. > > And as for the obligatory costume content: Walter Plunket was the sole > reason I was drawn into historical costuming. His designs were and > still are, some of the very best period costumes to ever come out of > Hollywood. Even though they're not 100% historically accurate, they're > a heck of a lot closer than the majority. Particularly for that era of > filmmaking... > > Sarah > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 12:43:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEHhs2q027669 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:43:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHh3cC016967; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHgwHO029002; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:42:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from shockwave.systems.pipex.net (shockwave.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHgoHO028790 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:42:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by shockwave.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A12461C0060C for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:42:11 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <005201c3aad6$9d8d1ce0$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031113104935.P59211-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:42:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's a quote I've just picked out of a trailer for a new series about Charles II, put out by the B.B.C. here in England:- "And then there's a prodigious amount of bedding and betrayal in the BBC's new period drama Charles II, with Rufus Sewell leading a very strong cast - not least Shirley Henderson as his wife Catharine of Braganza. Questions of authenticity bedevil historical drama, but if the director suceeds in creating a believable atmosphere, does the detail matter?" I suppose this must sum up the attitude of a lot of the people who make costume dramas? Linda Walton. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 12:52:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEHqZ2q028038 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:52:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHpRcC017985; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:51:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHpLHO007441; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:51:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHpFHO007358 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:51:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id LAA10081 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:51:14 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:51:14 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <005201c3aad6$9d8d1ce0$97725651@bella> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's a quote I've just picked out of a trailer for a new series about Charles II, put out by the B.B.C. here in England:- "And then there's a prodigious amount of bedding and betrayal in the BBC's new period drama Charles II, with Rufus Sewell leading a very strong cast - not least Shirley Henderson as his wife Catharine of Braganza. Questions of authenticity bedevil historical drama, but if the director suceeds in creating a believable atmosphere, does the detail matter?" I suppose this must sum up the attitude of a lot of the people who make costume dramas? Heavens, yes!! But the appeal is going to be Rufus Sewell! Although I wonder if he'll wear brown contacts, even since he doesn't look like Charles II? Wonder if the ladies will be garbed a la their Lely & Co classical "undress" portraits, or what they really wore day to day. "Painted Ladies" is a great tour of the Restoration Court "beauties" as they appeared in portraiture. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 12:55:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEHt42q028178 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:55:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHsCcC018292; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:54:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEHs9HO010292; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:54:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAEHruHO010029 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:53:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-66-127-115-106.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@66.127.115.106 with plain) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2003 17:53:48 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:53:36 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <021301c3aad5$d98f50b0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Message-Id: <7865C9D0-16CB-11D8-8850-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But my question is this, then: Why make a movie based on a book that has the same title as the book but resembles nothing about the book at all? I think a lot of my offense with the movie/book discrepancy is that when I go to see a movie based on a book that I enjoyed, I want to see that book brought to life. Not some bizarre plot that has nothing whatsoever to do with the book, wrapped in a thin veneer of legitimacy from having the same title as the original text. I think if you're going to go through that much trouble to make a movie that doesn't resemble the book it's supposedly based on, why even both associating it with the book? Of course, there's varying degrees of "based on the book" that I do recognize. LOTR is a good example, as are the other two examples I mentioned previously. Changes were likely made to fit time constraints, I'm sure. Also, some plot points don't translate well onto the silver screen. Sarah On Friday, November 14, 2003, at 09:36 AM, Teena Paradise wrote: > My like or dislike of a movie generally has nothing whatsoever to do > with > whether or not it is like the book. I will give you an example of a > movie > that is excellent and a classic despite the fact it has only the > basics in > common with the book.... The Shining. As I said previously, when I go > to the > movies, I am there to be entertained by the story the filmmakers are > telling. I do not go for a costume lesson nor a history lesson. If I > want to > know what happens in the book, I read the book. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sarah" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth > > >> Definitely! Just like QEI's life was infinitely more interesting than >> "Elizabeth" made it out to be. It irks me when Hollywood decides that >> the real or original story isn't good enough and then tampers with it. >> You'd think some script writers thought they were God, or something... >> Or the directors, or producers, or marketers... Whoever ended up >> making >> the final decision on movies that resemble nothing of the original >> book/historical personage's life. >> >> I'm just reminded of Gone With The Wind, a movie which left out the >> fact that Scarlett had three children, one by each of her husbands, >> but >> that in the end, the book and the movie matched up pretty seamlessly, >> save for that one fact. And the Princess Bride, which still managed >> to >> be a delightful movie despite deviating from the original book here >> and >> there. Of course, the reasons why these two movies in particular were >> held true to the original story could have had something to do with >> the >> intense involvement of the authors on the filming process. >> >> And as for the obligatory costume content: Walter Plunket was the sole >> reason I was drawn into historical costuming. His designs were and >> still are, some of the very best period costumes to ever come out of >> Hollywood. Even though they're not 100% historically accurate, >> they're >> a heck of a lot closer than the majority. Particularly for that era >> of >> filmmaking... >> >> Sarah >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _________________________________________________ http://www.elizabethanlady.com "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure their security deserve neither..." Benjamin Franklin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 13:02:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEI2b2q032610 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:02:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEI1rcC019122; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:01:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEI1p2R017657; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:01:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEI1R2R017178 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:01:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAEI1C2I009560 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:01:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031114125420.030f03d8@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:00:26 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: Re: [h-cost] Time travel and musketeers In-Reply-To: <200311141539.hAEFdNli010619@net.indra.com> References: <200311141539.hAEFdNli010619@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hAEI1R2R017178 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:43:22 +0000, "Kate M Bunting" wrote: >When I saw "The Three Musketeers" when it first came out, I was >disappointed that the few genuinely dramatic moments were played down in >favour of comedy - but perhaps that was just youthful idealism on my part. I felt the same way... but then I read the book. OK, I read "Mousquetaires" in translation (wasn't confident enough of my ability to read it in French at the time), but *still*. OTOH, it was reading some of the truly comic moments in "Vingt Ans Après" (which I *did* read in French) that brought a lot of that home to me. (I love the scene early on where d'Artagnan and Porthos, working for Mazarin and trying to foil a prison break, run into Athos and Aramis, working for the Fronde -- the aristocracy -- and trying to bring the now-fugitive prisoner to safety... Athos and d'Artagnan recognize each other's unique styles of swordsmanship. Now I'm wondering if this is there is an earlier example of a "safe word" used in literature...) Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 13:14:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEIEe2q000731 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:14:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIDucC020230; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:13:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIDs2R029036; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:13:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIDp2R028986 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:13:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05741 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:13:50 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA31126 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:13:50 -0500 Message-ID: <025401c3aadb$0dfbee80$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7865C9D0-16CB-11D8-8850-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:13:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I understand what you are saying. But to go to any movie expecting it to be just like the book is doomed to failure. There are so many things that can affect it, as you mentioned. And some of the complaints I hear from people are so trivial that I can't understand why that person would go to movies at all if something so small is going to ruin the entire movie. Stupid things like... "But everyone knows in the book, her curtains are red!" etc. And I have seen people go to a movie based on a book looking for discrepancies rather than being there to enjoy the film. What is the point in that? I plop down my $8 to be entertained, not to be pissed off. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth > But my question is this, then: Why make a movie based on a book that > has the same title as the book but resembles nothing about the book at > all? I think a lot of my offense with the movie/book discrepancy is > that when I go to see a movie based on a book that I enjoyed, I want to > see that book brought to life. Not some bizarre plot that has nothing > whatsoever to do with the book, wrapped in a thin veneer of legitimacy > from having the same title as the original text. I think if you're > going to go through that much trouble to make a movie that doesn't > resemble the book it's supposedly based on, why even both associating > it with the book? > > Of course, there's varying degrees of "based on the book" that I do > recognize. LOTR is a good example, as are the other two examples I > mentioned previously. Changes were likely made to fit time > constraints, I'm sure. Also, some plot points don't translate well > onto the silver screen. > > Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 13:19:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEIJ72q000872 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:19:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIHlcC020673; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:17:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIHj2R002849; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:17:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIHd2R002761 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:17:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11204 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:17:38 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA28549 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:17:38 -0500 Message-ID: <026e01c3aadb$95fc3740$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031029090055.J51244-100000@shell.siscom.net><012f01c3a92c$a41a2d60$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> <3FB24DA8.2080303@uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] I need help!!!! Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:17:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to everyone that offered links and help. The project is finished and the images are great! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Greeenberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] I need help!!!! > Sounds like fun! Here are a couple: > > I've just begun collecting 10th and 11th here: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/rhuddlan/images/ > > And there are several sculptures mixed in with architectural details > from 11th, 12th, 13th cent. here: > http://witcombe.sbc.edu/ARTHmedieval.html#Romanesque > > For 12th and 13th try: > http://www.artcyclopedia.com/history/gothic.html > > or go to the Web Gallery of Art, go to the search feature, and search by > century: > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/index1.html > > > - Hope > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 13:21:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEILZ2q000986 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:21:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIKmcC021057; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:20:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIKi2R005855; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from shockwave.systems.pipex.net (shockwave.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIKa2R005579 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:20:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by shockwave.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D4911C0009A for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:20:29 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <006501c3aadb$f71df040$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:20:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > (snip) > Heavens, yes!! But the appeal is going to be Rufus Sewell! Although I wonder > if he'll wear brown contacts, even since he doesn't look like Charles II? > > Wonder if the ladies will be garbed a la their Lely & Co classical "undress" > portraits, or what they really wore day to day. "Painted Ladies" is a great > tour of the Restoration Court "beauties" as they appeared in portraiture. > > Cindy Abel > Here is the link to the series website:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/charles/ There are some preview clips which give glimpses of the clothes, (however I'm unable to distinguish eye colour), and a photogallery which shows pictures of some of the sets. There's a promise of a photogallery of the costumes soon. Linda Walton. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 13:21:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEILr2q001007 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:21:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIL8cC021085; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:21:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIL42R006197; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f112.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.112]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIKp2R005888 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:20:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:20:45 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.78 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:20:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.78] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:20:45 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2003 18:20:45.0955 (UTC) FILETIME=[0592F530:01C3AADC] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: AlbertCat@aol.com >...Let's see. What are some other good inaccurate films that actually are >enhanced by their inaccuracies? "Sleepy Hollow" comes 1st to mind. Great >clothes but >not exactly true to the 1790s. "Shakespeare in Love" would fit here too. >How >about "Satyricon"? Pirates of the Carribean, Much Ado about Nothing, a huge number of westerns, Gangs of New York -- all of with are presenting myths, not history. Marc _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... http://shopping.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 13:40:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEIeR2q001620 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:40:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIdmcC023088; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:39:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIdh2R023721; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:39:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from shockwave.systems.pipex.net (shockwave.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIdd2R023587 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:39:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by shockwave.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B68CD1C00317 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:39:33 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000401c3aade$a18addc0$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: Subject: Fw: [h-cost] Rufus Sewell as Charles II Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:39:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry - just realised I should have re-titled this message. Linda Walton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant > > (snip) > > Heavens, yes!! But the appeal is going to be Rufus Sewell! Although I > wonder > > if he'll wear brown contacts, even since he doesn't look like Charles II? > > > > Wonder if the ladies will be garbed a la their Lely & Co classical > "undress" > > portraits, or what they really wore day to day. "Painted Ladies" is a > great > > tour of the Restoration Court "beauties" as they appeared in portraiture. > > > > Cindy Abel > > > > Here is the link to the series website:- > http://www.bbc.co.uk/charles/ > > There are some preview clips which give glimpses of the clothes, (however > I'm unable to distinguish eye colour), and a photogallery which shows > pictures of some of the sets. There's a promise of a photogallery of the > costumes soon. > > Linda Walton. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 14:08:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEJ8S2q001713 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:08:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJ79cC025935; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:07:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJ77gU019438; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:07:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40108.mail.yahoo.com (web40108.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAEJ73gU019317 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:07:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031114190658.83483.qmail@web40108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.9.70] by web40108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:06:58 PST Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:06:58 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] margo andersons patterns? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had heard they are great but I can't find them anywhere. I emailed the MA but haven't heard back. I also called/emailed to other suppliers and they are out as well. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am scared to death to draft my own patterns! Thank you, Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 14:23:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEJNa2q001785 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:23:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJMrcC027656; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:22:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJMngU004070; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:22:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJMigU003958 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:22:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a24.directcon.net [207.215.72.24]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hAEJOoW00751; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:24:50 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031114112040.00bc7140@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:20:40 -0800 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] margo andersons patterns? In-Reply-To: <20031114190658.83483.qmail@web40108.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:06 AM 11/14/2003 -0800, me wrote: >I had heard they are great but I can't find them anywhere. I emailed the MA but haven't heard back. I also called/emailed to other suppliers and they are out as well. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am scared to death to draft my own patterns! Angelique, the Lady's Wardrobe pattern, which contains the skirt, underskirt, forpart, bodices and sleeves, is currently being reprinted and will be available within 2-3 weeks. It has been heavily revised for better fit and more historical accuracy. I still have the Underpinnings, Accesories, and Men's patterns in stock. I strongly suggest making the corset, at least, from my pattern as the bodices are drafted to fit over it, so you may wish to order the Underpinnings and get started on that now. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 14:23:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEJNp2q001790 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:23:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJNBcC027698; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:23:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJNAgU004380; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:23:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJMkgU004001 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:22:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a24.directcon.net [207.215.72.24]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hAEJOoW00751; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:24:50 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031114112040.00bc7140@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:20:40 -0800 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] margo andersons patterns? In-Reply-To: <20031114190658.83483.qmail@web40108.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:06 AM 11/14/2003 -0800, me wrote: >I had heard they are great but I can't find them anywhere. I emailed the MA but haven't heard back. I also called/emailed to other suppliers and they are out as well. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am scared to death to draft my own patterns! Angelique, the Lady's Wardrobe pattern, which contains the skirt, underskirt, forpart, bodices and sleeves, is currently being reprinted and will be available within 2-3 weeks. It has been heavily revised for better fit and more historical accuracy. I still have the Underpinnings, Accesories, and Men's patterns in stock. I strongly suggest making the corset, at least, from my pattern as the bodices are drafted to fit over it, so you may wish to order the Underpinnings and get started on that now. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 14:24:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEJOp2q001793 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:24:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJOCcC027839; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:24:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJO7gU005308; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:24:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14003.mail.yahoo.com (web14003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAEJO2gU005213 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:24:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031114192355.36398.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:23:55 GMT Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:23:55 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] margo andersons patterns? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031114190658.83483.qmail@web40108.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.margospatterns.com/ -C --- me wrote: > I had heard they are great but I can't find them > anywhere. I emailed the MA but haven't heard back. I > also called/emailed to other suppliers and they are > out as well. Any help would be greatly appreciated > as I am scared to death to draft my own patterns! > Thank you, Angelique > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 14:27:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEJR82q001801 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:27:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJQKcC028068; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:26:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJQIgU007214; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:26:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40912.mail.yahoo.com (web40912.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.209]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAEJQEgU007099 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:26:14 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031114192609.45887.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40912.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:26:09 PST Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:26:09 -0800 (PST) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311141903.hAEJ26gW014949@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc wrote: > Pirates of the Carribean, Much Ado about Nothing, a > huge number of westerns, > Gangs of New York -- all of with are presenting > myths, not history. To be fair, Gangs of New York actually does make a loose attempt at portraying historical figures and incidents, albeit in a time-collapsed and overly-exaggerated manner. Bill the Butcher really existed, but not exactly during the time portrayed in the movie, and not with the same storyline. The Dead Rabbits existed. Five Corners existed and looked almost exactly the way it was portrayed in the movie, according to period photos. The original book, published in 1928, is actually a fascinating read in that "can't look away from the trainwreck" kind of way. It's a grim reminder that gang violence hasn't changed much in 200 years. Did anyone else notice that Daniel Day Lewis portrayed Bill the Butcher with a stiff, pidgeon-toed walk that evokes rickets? Sometimes it's not just the clothes that make the man, eh. I thought he deserved the Oscar for that role. -Tasha ===== ***Updated as of November 1, 2003: Aumônière-mania!*** http://www.cottesimple.com An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 14:42:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEJg22q001843 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:42:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJewcC029475; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:40:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJeqgU020360; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:40:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEJengU020224 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:40:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAEJehw23679 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:40:43 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:46:55 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <7865C9D0-16CB-11D8-8850-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> Message-Id: <4D672FE3-16DB-11D8-BF3F-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] Books vs movies was: elizabeth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, One way to look at the differences in the movie/book dichotomy is that you get two stories for the price of one. let's look at LOTR. I have to admit that I screamed bloody murder over what they did to Faramir, at first. Boy, was I peeved. But the more I though about it, the less I minded. It was simply exploring possibilities that the book didn't. So we have two takes on Faramir. Personally, I prefer the book's Faramir because he was the underdog son who tried hard to please his father, but to no avail. But the actor really captured the temptation of the ring, not to mention being the yummiest in the movie. *grin* But.... There's always a but.... Now I have two tellings of a great story. I'm glad they beefed up the Arwen and Eowyn characters. Tolkien, bless his soul, didn't write female characters, at least not as deeply as I like to see. I appreciated the movie-depicted conflict within Arwen over her decision to stay in Middle Earth and her woman's love for Aragorn over a daughter's childish fealty to her father. And while the Elves didn't give a fig for humans in the books, the scene at Helm's Deep when the elves arrive is one of my favorite's in the movie, along with Eowyn standing on the wind blown heights, with the banner falling to the ground, symbolizing the fall of Rohan. You don't find either in the books, both they are both powerful images in the movie. Books and movies are vastly different mediums, thank goodness. Each have their strengths and weaknesses. Jackson did the best he could in filming a series of book that have taken on religious proportions with some people. He's got a pair of brass ones just for that fact alone. The movies are brilliantly executed, even though I have been extremely displeased with some plot changes. I would have given my eye teeth to work in the costuming department. Anyway, that's my take on the issue. Books and movies rarely follow the exact same plot line, often for good reason. It's a chance to explore some things the author didn't, and it's an opportunity to make grand visual statements, which cannot be done in the books. best regards, Althea On Friday, November 14, 2003, at 09:53 AM, Sarah wrote: > But my question is this, then: Why make a movie based on a book that > has the same title as the book but resembles nothing about the book at > all? I think a lot of my offense with the movie/book discrepancy is > that when I go to see a movie based on a book that I enjoyed, I want > to see that book brought to life. Not some bizarre plot that has > nothing whatsoever to do with the book, wrapped in a thin veneer of > legitimacy from having the same title as the original text. I think > if you're going to go through that much trouble to make a movie that > doesn't resemble the book it's supposedly based on, why even both > associating it with the book? > > Of course, there's varying degrees of "based on the book" that I do > recognize. LOTR is a good example, as are the other two examples I > mentioned previously. Changes were likely made to fit time > constraints, I'm sure. Also, some plot points don't translate well > onto the silver screen. > > Sarah > > On Friday, November 14, 2003, at 09:36 AM, Teena Paradise wrote: > >> My like or dislike of a movie generally has nothing whatsoever to do >> with >> whether or not it is like the book. I will give you an example of a >> movie >> that is excellent and a classic despite the fact it has only the >> basics in >> common with the book.... The Shining. As I said previously, when I go >> to the >> movies, I am there to be entertained by the story the filmmakers are >> telling. I do not go for a costume lesson nor a history lesson. If I >> want to >> know what happens in the book, I read the book. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sarah" >> To: "Historical Costume" >> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 12:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth >> >> >>> Definitely! Just like QEI's life was infinitely more interesting >>> than >>> "Elizabeth" made it out to be. It irks me when Hollywood decides >>> that >>> the real or original story isn't good enough and then tampers with >>> it. >>> You'd think some script writers thought they were God, or >>> something... >>> Or the directors, or producers, or marketers... Whoever ended up >>> making >>> the final decision on movies that resemble nothing of the original >>> book/historical personage's life. >>> >>> I'm just reminded of Gone With The Wind, a movie which left out the >>> fact that Scarlett had three children, one by each of her husbands, >>> but >>> that in the end, the book and the movie matched up pretty seamlessly, >>> save for that one fact. And the Princess Bride, which still managed >>> to >>> be a delightful movie despite deviating from the original book here >>> and >>> there. Of course, the reasons why these two movies in particular >>> were >>> held true to the original story could have had something to do with >>> the >>> intense involvement of the authors on the filming process. >>> >>> And as for the obligatory costume content: Walter Plunket was the >>> sole >>> reason I was drawn into historical costuming. His designs were and >>> still are, some of the very best period costumes to ever come out of >>> Hollywood. Even though they're not 100% historically accurate, >>> they're >>> a heck of a lot closer than the majority. Particularly for that era >>> of >>> filmmaking... >>> >>> Sarah >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > _________________________________________________ > http://www.elizabethanlady.com > > "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure > their security deserve neither..." > > Benjamin Franklin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 14:44:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEJiJ2q001854 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:44:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEITYcC021977; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:29:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEITW2R013764; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:29:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEITT2R013704 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:29:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA25176 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:29:28 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA07974 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:29:28 -0500 Message-ID: <028e01c3aadd$3d004cb0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:29:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I also wanted to chime in about A Knight's Tale. I love this movie... in fact I bet I have seen it 15-20 times as it is one of the dvds I regularly put on while sewing. I would certainly not base any costumes off of this movie. However, I feel that this movie gives joe average a sense of how people might have felt in the middle ages. I will explain. In the movie, the crowd at the tournament was portrayed very similarly to a modern day football game crowd. Our experience of being a spectator at a football game was probably very similar to their experience at a tournament..... excitement in the air, wondering who is going to win, wanting to see your favorites walk out on the field, etc. Another instance that comes to mind is at the dance. How many of you, upon hearing the Bowie song start to play, said to yourself, "Oh I love this song"? I can't imagine that people of period didn't feel the same way when they heard a favorite being played. Had a medieval tune been played, many in the audience wouldn't have had that connection with the music. Now I am not going to say that people realized any of this while watching it... but I noticed it and I think subliminally it affects the viewer. Obligatory Costume Content: The character of Chaucer was naked... and then he wore clothes including something that looked like one of Jimi Hendrix's jackets. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rima" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies > > now the killing blow...I LIKED A KNIGHT'S TALE! > >Yes, I know I'm being rather defensive about this.... > > > >Tori > > Hey, we all have our dirty pleasure movies.... I could see where > Knights Tale would end up on someone's list. It's adorable, as long > as you don't think it's historical. ;-D > > Rima > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 15:06:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEK6x2q001938 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:06:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEK6DcC002154; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:06:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEK6AHx013597; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:06:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEK67Hx013544 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:06:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from uvm.edu (ip095102.uvm.edu [132.198.95.102]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEK60g2019768 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:06:01 -0500 Message-ID: <3FB535A7.5090105@uvm.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:05:59 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Books vs movies was: elizabeth References: <4D672FE3-16DB-11D8-BF3F-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> In-Reply-To: <4D672FE3-16DB-11D8-BF3F-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Althea Turner wrote: > Now I have two tellings of a great story. You and Tolkien both: check out some (many) of the writing he didn't include in the final version. His son Christopher has published quite a bit of it, including the genesis of LOTR: quite a different take on the story and characters. (Bingo and the ring!?) > I'm glad they beefed up the > Arwen and Eowyn characters. Tolkien, bless his soul, didn't write > female characters, at least not as deeply as I like to see. I Have to agree about that. Though mangled, I'm glad the Arwen/Aragorn story from appendices of the book made it into the movie. So, what impact will the costumes from these movies have on historic costumers? - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 15:18:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEKIn2q001966 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:18:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEKI6cC003355; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:18:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEKI4Hx024232; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:18:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEKI1Hx024128 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAEKHlcQ021914 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:17:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031114151203.03105480@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:17:01 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Books and movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I saw "Two Years Before the Mast" on TV as a teenager and was infatuated with Alan Ladd (or his character, Stewart) as he appeared at that age (note that his RL daughter (granddaughter?) was playing one of "Charlie's Angels" at that time), so I figured it'd be an interesting read for an English class book report. I never *did* manage to get to the end of the book; I found it very dry and nothing at all like the movie! What I recall of the two of them (book and movie) is that the movie glamourized a very, very small slice of what happened in about the first third of the book and twisted it out of context... Ob Costume content: I wasn't into historical costuming at the time, so I've no idea how accurately *anything* was portrayed, and I'm really not that keen on trying to find a video just to check again... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 15:31:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEKVk2q001997 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:31:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEKUNcC004714; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:30:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEKUKHx005378; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:30:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEKUGHx005247 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:30:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1c9.11d0f7d6 (4012) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:30:07 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1c9.11d0f7d6.2ce6954f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:30:07 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Your take on "A Knight's Tale" is interesting but.... Did peasants [there's little or no middle class y'know] get to go to tournaments? Shouldn't they be working???? They don't get the week end off, y'know. And there was no recorded music so how often did they get to hear their favorite song....or any song....unless they or one of their family members were playing it themselves? Unlike our lives, their day was not filled with music. I think you [and the film] are grafting 20/21 century notions onto a time when such thoughts couldn't even have been thought. It's not the same. We live lives of outrageous leisure compared to those folks. And, no, Mozart was not like a rock star in the 18th century either. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 15:33:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEKXd2q002001 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:33:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEKWlcC004950; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:32:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEKWkHx007500; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:32:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEKWgHx007394 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:32:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.14.1c6972fb (4012) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:32:34 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <14.1c6972fb.2ce695e2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:32:34 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costume Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/14/2003 2:26:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, demontsegur@yahoo.com writes: > Did anyone else notice that Daniel Day Lewis portrayed > Bill the Butcher with a stiff, pidgeon-toed walk that > evokes rickets? Sometimes it's not just the clothes > that make the man, eh. I thought he deserved the Oscar > for that role. > He's amazing. I worked "Mohican's" y'know. A very nice fellow. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 15:42:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEKgk2q002019 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:42:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEKeXcC005719; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:40:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEKeVHx014291; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:40:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAEKeSHx014191 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:40:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCu5dP564cn9tg49rcaDyNyHS+2bAvgLDAA==">; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:40:12 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JEYNL77C; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:40:12 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:39:28 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady's purse (christmas gift) Message-ID: <20031114.143929.-585967.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-8,10-41 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They both look fantastic. It must be nice to do a relatively quick project like the purse occasionally instead of all the long term ones that you usually do. Karen On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:42:49 +0100 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > Hello. > I have added new things to my website, a lady's embroidered purse > wich is > going to be a christmas gift for a friend, > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purse.htm > and i have also added new progress to the new embroidered suit i am > making. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm > I have not started to embroider the jacket yeat, but i started to > "warm up" > with an extra waistcoat for the suit with a wreath of wild briars. I > am in > an embroidery freak state of mind :-) > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 16:01:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEL1S2q002192 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:01:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEL0YcC008129; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:00:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEL0Rwf003099; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:00:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEL0Nwf003049 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:00:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail23.ureach.com (mailout.ureach.com [172.16.2.83]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27930 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:00:23 -0500 Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by mail23.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA29680 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:00:21 -0500 Message-ID: <034101c3aaf2$518f28d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1c9.11d0f7d6.2ce6954f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:00:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, they portrayed the peasants at the tournament, but my remarks about the feeling of excitement etc would have applied to the nobles, as well. However, the movie would not have worked had the nobles been portrayed acting like football fans. Regarding your comments about the ball... as I recall, there were no peasants at the ball and nobles were certainly familiar with music. And, believe it or not, musicians played music which was written down and/or memorized so a person could indeed hear the same song many times without having to wait several centuries for recorded music. As for your comment about Mozart, I don't recall seeing him in the movie nor do I recall mentioning him in my message to which you were responding. It must have been included for sarcasm or perhaps condescension... both unnecessary. Everyone you disagree with is not an idiot. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies > Your take on "A Knight's Tale" is interesting but.... > > Did peasants [there's little or no middle class y'know] get to go to > tournaments? Shouldn't they be working???? They don't get the week end off, y'know. > > And there was no recorded music so how often did they get to hear their > favorite song....or any song....unless they or one of their family members were > playing it themselves? Unlike our lives, their day was not filled with music. > > I think you [and the film] are grafting 20/21 century notions onto a time > when such thoughts couldn't even have been thought. It's not the same. We live > lives of outrageous leisure compared to those folks. > > And, no, Mozart was not like a rock star in the 18th century either. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 16:34:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAELYZ2q003425 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:34:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAELXkcC011900; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:33:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAELXiwf004069; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:33:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from secure4.netll.com (secure4.netll.com [216.139.205.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAELXewg004009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:33:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from lithiate by secure4.netll.com with local (Exim 4.24) id 1AKlZa-0003BP-Ar for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:33:46 -0500 From: "Sarah Goodman-Rodriguez" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costume Movies X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.26 X-IPAddress: 165.235.242.125 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:33:46 -0500 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - secure4.netll.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32560 32560] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - secure4.netll.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In a message dated 11/14/2003 2:26:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, > demontsegur@yahoo.com writes: > > > Did anyone else notice that Daniel Day Lewis portrayed > > Bill the Butcher with a stiff, pidgeon-toed walk that > > evokes rickets? Sometimes it's not just the clothes > > that make the man, eh. I thought he deserved the Oscar > > for that role. > > > > He's amazing. I worked "Mohican's" y'know. A very nice fellow. I *loved* "Gangs of New York" because Daniel Day Lewis was absolutely BRILLIANT as Billy the Butcher. God, he was great! I can't rave enough about how fantastic that movie was, and here I am, a self- professed Leo-hater! LOL! DDL = Hotness ;) Sarah, who has too much time on her hands at work... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 17:02:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEM2A2q004348 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:02:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEM1EcC014975; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:01:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEM19t1029425; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from secure4.netll.com (secure4.netll.com [216.139.205.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEM11t2029298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from lithiate by secure4.netll.com with local (Exim 4.24) id 1AKlk5-0003kO-Uz for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:44:37 -0500 From: "Sarah Goodman-Rodriguez" To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.26 X-IPAddress: 165.235.242.125 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:44:37 -0500 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - secure4.netll.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32560 32560] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - secure4.netll.com Subject: [h-cost] Movies I used to hate... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sitting here on a lonely Friday afternoon while everyone else is out of the office (lucky bums), I couldn't help but think of a few movies I used to absolutely DETEST due to historical innacuracies/costuming/bad plot/horrible acting but now I am able to enjoy them... History/Costume Snob that I am. ;) The first one that comes to mind is "Robin Hood: Prince of Theives". I am *so* not a Kevin Costner fan, and when this movie came out when I was in the 7th grade, I already had the sense that it was mangaling everything about the Robin Hood myth that could be remotely "period". The fact that Mr. Costner couldn't hold a convincing accent for longer than the first 30 seconds of the film was also a big turn off. And the clothes... Eek. What was up with those "Celts", too? And what the heck is with that mullet hair-do they seem to give all leading male characters in period flicks? Oh, and the fact that even though the Marion character was "updated" to reflect feminist ideals, AND the fact that she kicked Robin Hood's butt during her first scene, what's up with the fact that by the last 15 minutes of the film she's reduced to a cowering, simpering "dead weight woman" (to use a term my sister invinted), wailing "Robin! Robin!" from the corner of the room? Huh? Anyway... I actually like the movie now. I sat down and watched it for the first time in ten years a couple years back and enjoyed it. Maybe I'm going soft in my old age... Nah. ;) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 17:56:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEMuQ2q005947 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:56:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEMtZcC023418; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:55:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEMtXNM020607; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:55:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEMtSNM020535 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:55:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id QAA29255 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:55:28 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Movies I used to hate... Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:55:28 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sarah Goodman-Rodriguez Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 3:45 PM To: Historical Costume Sarah wrote The first one that comes to mind is "Robin Hood: Prince of Theives". I am *so* not a Kevin Costner fan, and when this movie came out when I was in the 7th grade, I already had the sense that it was mangaling everything about the Robin Hood myth that could be remotely "period". The fact that Mr. Costner couldn't hold a convincing accent for longer than the first 30 seconds of the film was also a big turn off. Actually critics suggested that Costner and Mel Gibson (who did Hamlet the same year)were both miscast and should have switched movies. And for Glen Close to play Hamlet's mom---well, puberty must have hit about age 5, not to mention that awfully capey blue chenille thingy she wore in at least one scene.At least Mel wasn't in a mullet in that. And the clothes... Eek. Was not a good year for historic costume movies. What is worse, if they had to be inaccurate, let's go whole hog and at least make them interesting! But it was earth tones were in back then. Oh, and the fact that even though the Marion character was "updated" to reflect feminist ideals, AND the fact that she kicked Robin Hood's butt during her first scene, what's up with the fact that by the last 15 minutes of the film she's reduced to a cowering, simpering "dead weight woman" (to use a term my sister invinted), wailing "Robin! Robin!" from the corner of the room? Huh? Either love makes you a softy(yeah, right!)or she was terrified that wearing what was in medieval times a major fortune on her back,(historically correct or not) she just might get a bit of blood on it. I remember I kept waiting for her to brain Alan Rickman(who was more exciting than Robin)and had a lovely, if drafty castle. No matter how much they gussied up the digs in Sherwood, it is still camping! Cindy Abel Anyway... I actually like the movie now. I sat down and watched it for the first time in ten years a couple years back and enjoyed it. Maybe I'm going soft in my old age... Nah. ;) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 18:02:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEN2a2q006155 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:02:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEN1ocC024513; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:01:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEN1kNM026597; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:01:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f21.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEN1eNM026469 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:01:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:01:34 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.78 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:01:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.78] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:01:34 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2003 23:01:34.0780 (UTC) FILETIME=[40419FC0:01C3AB03] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: Tasha McGann >To be fair, Gangs of New York actually does make a >loose attempt at portraying historical figures and >incidents, albeit in a time-collapsed and >overly-exaggerated manner. That's why it's just better to look at it as a myth, evoking a realities of the situation, but not being tied down to the facts. As a movie, it simply doesn't stand up to internal analysis or comparison with the actual facts as we know them :) >Bill the Butcher really existed, but not exactly during the time portrayed >in the movie, and >not with the same storyline. The Dead Rabbits existed. Again, not like they are portrayed in the movie by any stretch of the imagination. The same is true for most of the major named characters in the movie barring the male and female principles, who did not exist at all. >Five Corners existed and looked lmost exactly the way it was portrayed in >the movie, >according to period photos. Period photos from many decades after the dates in the movies. There are no photographs, and darned few line drawings of the Points from that early. >The original book, published in 1928, is actually a fascinating read in >that "can't look away from the trainwreck" kind of way. It's a grim >reminder that gang violence hasn't changed >much in 200 years. His other books are pretty good too, but again, very little of the book is actually in the movie. Having seen some fo the early scripts where more of the book IS there, the storylines are way too convoluted and a bit more gruesome. >...that make the man, eh. I thought he deserved the Oscar for that role. I agree absolutely. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 18:09:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEN972q006373 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:09:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEN8VcC025743; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:08:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEN8UNM002924; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:08:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEN8PNM002825 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:08:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AKn3A-000LQj-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:08:24 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:04:58 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth References: <20031114015739.7583.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote > >On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Jennifer Fleury wrote: > > > >> Also, the costume designer said in a couple interviews that she was >> seizing the opportunity to portray the "at home" type of clothing they >> might have worn and that she basically had to invent it because nobody >> really has any idea what that was. Or perhaps SHE didn't have any >> idea what that was, which would explain the costumes. > >Back when the movie first came out, someone posted a link to (or >description of?) an interview with the costume designer, in which she said >that the director forbade her to consult reference books because he wanted >her ideas to be fresh and new. Something about him grabbing the books out >of her hand and taking them away. > >(I can just imagine what my reaction to that would be. "I don't care if >you are my boss, that Janet Arnold book cost me $150 and it's out of >print, and if you destroy it you're going to replace it even if it means >you'll have to pay for a reprinting!") > >Or am I thinking of a different movie? > No, you're right, I remember that. I seem to remember my husband and I screaming at the TV that if you're going to make a historical movie, make it historical. If you don't want to do history, do something else! It always seems to me that the films / TV dramas that set themselves up to be oh-so-accurate are always the worst, while those that don't make a big fuss about it are usually actually *better* in the first place, and we don't mind when some things are wrong because we recognise why that part was not felt important, or why they used a different effect for a particular purpose. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 19:25:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF0PD2q009162 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:25:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF0OPcC003305; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:24:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF0OMc2001019; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:24:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF0OIc2000983 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:24:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.108] (pm7-108.eos.net [205.133.149.108]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF0OF5S011703 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:24:16 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:25:00 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311142202.hAEM25t2000506@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: kostner robin hood X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sarah wrote: > > I actually like the movie now. I sat down and watched it for the > first time in ten years a couple years back and enjoyed it. Maybe I'm > going soft in my old age... > > Nah. ;) > Yeah. :-) We're talking about the one with the peasants living in secret tree houses, right? And Robin Hood all angst-ridden about his father remarrying? And the Sherrif of Nottingham somehow being able to be king of England? Maybe you need a nice rest and relax... (note for the humor-challenged -- that's a JOKE) Again, historic or literary accuracy isn't necessary for a movie (or else I'd have to hate "The Wizard of Oz," one of the greatest movies ever made). But at least make it plausible! I'm afraid "The Robin Hood That Must Not Be Named" will never make my "watchable" list. But we all have different lists. Gail Finke PS: "The African Queen" also bears little relation to the book, though no one seems to mind. Ditto with "Bedknobs and Broomsticks," which has only the character's names in common. And "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang," one of my favorite family costume movie musicals. And "Mary Poppins." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 19:57:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF0vu2q010458 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:57:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF0vCcC006176; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:57:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF0v9sP019724; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:57:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF0v7sP019668 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:57:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.ae.4aee4620 (4394) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:56:59 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:56:59 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/14/2003 4:01:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, bkessinger@ureach.com writes: > Everyone you disagree with is not an idiot. > Nor did I say so. For those of you who are not thin skinned, my point was that the farther back in time you go, the less you can ascribe modern feelings and sensibilities to the inhabitants. Yes, they were all human with human emotions, but we have the benefit of hind sight. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 19:58:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF0wu2q010500 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:58:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF0wHcC006258; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:58:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF0wFsP020231; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:58:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f47.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF0vGsP019741 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:57:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:57:10 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 00:57:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady's purse (christmas gift) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:57:09 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2003 00:57:10.0281 (UTC) FILETIME=[66231790:01C3AB13] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am ever more amazed at the incredible work you do. Thank you for sharing with us. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! . I am in >an embroidery freak state of mind :-) > >Bjarne > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 20:01:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF1112q010589 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:01:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF10IcC006366; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:00:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF10GsP021341; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:00:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF10CsP021265 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:00:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1a9.1cbcfde3 (4394) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:00:03 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1a9.1cbcfde3.2ce6d493@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:00:03 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movies I used to hate... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/14/2003 5:02:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, sarah@modehistorique.com writes: > "Robin! Robin!" from the corner of the room? Huh? > > And where's King John? He IS the cause of Robin's mission [steal....give.....] after all. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 20:21:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF1Lb2q011432 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:21:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF1KtcC007563; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:20:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF1KrsP002683; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:20:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF1KnsP002628 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:20:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.121.244.27] by anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE98F3B011C; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:17:12 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031114190658.83483.qmail@web40108.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031114190658.83483.qmail@web40108.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:11:59 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] margo andersons patterns? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I had heard they are great but I can't find them anywhere. I emailed >the MA but haven't heard back. I also called/emailed to other >suppliers and they are out as well. Any help would be greatly >appreciated as I am scared to death to draft my own patterns! >Thank you, Angelique Angelique, don't be scared. Just start on cheap fabric. I was also terrified until a couple of years ago, and still have TONS to learn, but I now find I have better results with the patterns I draft rather than commercial patterns. This is likely because I'm a loony fit - seriously pear shaped, with a very long waist, which makes me four different sizes for bust, waist, hips, and back-neck-waist length. Bodice patterns, in particular are a disaster for me. The neck and armholes are WAY too long, the waist too short, the bust too big, the waist too small, the hips not high enough..... blah blah blah. And cutting one, then altering it, really doesn't work well. It has to be CUT right to sit right on your bod. Let me also say, that I started "drafting" in complete ignorance. I took a shirt pattern that fit pretty well, and messed with it until I liked what I got. Then I drew my own "sloper" - kind of a shell-bodice thing - and now I cut most things for myself freehand around the sloper, since I know exactly how that one fits. Granted, I am not making 26 piece Victorian bodices. Certainly, that approach wouldn't work! (The very thought that people actually DO that fills me with awe and wonder!) But I have built quite a few well-fitting Elizabethan bodices, Italian gowns (1450ish) and medieval gowns (1250ish) and tunics this way, and they come out great. Just buy cheap stuff (at first), say a few good words over your scissors before you cut (actually, I often ask my hubby or my mother to "bless" my scissors!) and GO for it! Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 20:39:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF1dm2q012131 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:39:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF1d6cC008580; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:39:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF1d2sP012209; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF1cvsQ012167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:38:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAF1dQUZ010651 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:39:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAF1dQT1010649 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:39:26 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming in movies rant Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:39:26 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031113104935.P59211-100000@shell.siscom.net> <200311132222.55427.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311142039.26403.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 14 November 2003 09:46 am, Kirrily Robert wrote: > Cathy Raymond wrote: > > "Hollywood and History" pointed this out. As you say, it's truest of the > > leads, particularly the female lead (sometimes they let the male lead > > have a hairstyle that's more truly period, especially if he's not the > > heartthrob type). > > One of my favourite examples of the leads getting away with bad costume > is "Dangerous Beauty", in which the male lead wears modern trousers and > everyone else wears venetian breeches as are appropriate to the time and > place. > You're certainly right that the same principle often applies to costume, too, Kirrily, but my point (can't speak for Drea) and the point made in Hollywood and History was that even if the costumes are good in a movie, the hairstyles, at least for the leads, are quite likely to be contemporary to the time the movie was made, not the time in which the story is set. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 20:43:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF1h92q012273 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:43:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF1gFcC008711; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF1gEsP013901; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF1gBsQ013879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:42:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAF1geUZ010674 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:42:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAF1geMZ010672 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:42:40 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:42:40 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <002e01c3aa88$47ddd3a0$97725651@bella> <003a01c3aa91$2613d680$44a176cb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <003a01c3aa91$2613d680$44a176cb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311142042.40555.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 14 November 2003 04:24 am, michaela wrote: > > So is that why it seems to have been decided to cut Saruman out of the > third film? (Like Christopher Lee - I'm very shocked.) > > Yes, I heard that just after my email.. I was rather shocked.. more from > the reasoning for it being cut (if it doesn't work then why include it in > the dvd version?) For the same reason stuff is *always* included in the DVD version--to provide extra material so the distributors can justify a higher price. :-( (I'm really beginning to hate the DVD format for this reason--the "extras" are just a waste of time in too many instances). -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 20:46:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF1kG2q012400 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:46:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF1jbcC008865; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:45:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF1jasP015601; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:45:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF1jVsQ015548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:45:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAF1k0UZ010698 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:46:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAF1k0oJ010696 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:46:00 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:46:00 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <40.3716ea75.2ce5ce9e@aol.com> <3FB4E792.40A1A540@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3FB4E792.40A1A540@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311142046.00565.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 14 November 2003 09:32 am, Sue Clemenger wrote: > I'd add "Forever After" to that list. And "Pirates of the Caribbean." > --sue Don't talk to me about "Pirates of the Caribbean". I'm still upset with the fact that they had to make a stupid plot assumption (the idea that a healthy well-to-do girl would not only be new to corset wearing but would faint as a result). :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 21:07:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF27K2q013230 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:07:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF26bcC009969; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:06:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF26a74025720; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:06:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF26X74025696 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:06:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-38lc2jk.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.10.116] helo=pavilion) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AKppV-0005un-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:06:30 -0800 Message-ID: <001c01c3ab1d$e0154f00$740a56d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: OZ - Witch of the south? was Re: [h-cost] Movies I used to hate... Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:12:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A movie that I never liked was the Wizard of OZ. Almost hated it in fact because I always wondered why anyone would make a movie with only a witch of the North, East and West and no witch of the South. I found this quite perplexing as a kid and used to lay awake at night wondering where she was, for years! Maybe she would appear in a sequel, but that never happened. As a result, I never liked the film. Then around the age of 35, after a too few many glasses of wine, I watched the movie again and worked it, at least to my own satisfaction at least. Reading the original book confirmed my theory. Did anyone else notice this? Does anyone have any ideas about who she might be? Answer IMHO involves a costuming convention in translating the book to the movie although none of the books I've read about the movie mention this. It's just my conclusion. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 21:11:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF2BV2q013408 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:11:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2AucC010275; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2At74027756; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:10:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2Ap74027645 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:10:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.125.278dfb94 (4394) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:10:41 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <125.278dfb94.2ce6e521@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:10:41 EST Subject: Re: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/14/2003 8:42:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, cathy@thyrsus.com writes: > For the same reason stuff is *always* included in the DVD version--to > provide > extra material so the distributors can justify a higher price. I know. Doncha hate the "alternative ending" scam. You mean you can't decide how to end the friggin' film???? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 21:23:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF2NP2q013931 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:23:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2MMcC010781; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:22:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2ML74003406; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:22:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2MH74003305 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:22:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 890DA425CE for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:27:55 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FB58EB5.2020805@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:25:57 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: OZ - Witch of the south? was Re: [h-cost] Movies I used to hate... References: <001c01c3ab1d$e0154f00$740a56d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <001c01c3ab1d$e0154f00$740a56d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo wrote: > A movie that I never liked was the Wizard of OZ. Almost hated it in fact > because I always wondered why anyone would make a movie with only a witch of > the North, East and West and no witch of the South. ... > > Does anyone have any ideas about who she might be? Glinda the Good is the Witch of the South. Dorothy's house lands on the Witch of the East, and she must go get the Ruby Slippers from her sister, the Witch of the West. There was a Witch of the North in one of the books, but not in the movie version. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 21:28:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF2SX2q014155 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:28:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2S0cC011103; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2Rx74005886; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:27:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2Rv74005837 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:27:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.140.1c981e45 (4394) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:27:45 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <140.1c981e45.2ce6e921@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:27:45 EST Subject: Re: OZ - Witch of the south? was Re: [h-cost] Movies I used to hate... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/14/2003 9:23:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > Glinda the Good is the Witch of the South. > I thought she was the good Witch of the North. The Witch of the South? I dunno....Katherine Harris? She's be wicked though. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 21:30:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF2Uj2q014250 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:30:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2UCcC011179; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:30:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2UC74006826; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:30:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2U974006751 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6812D425CE for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:35:47 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FB5908D.3090302@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:33:49 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: OZ - Witch of the south? was Re: [h-cost] Movies I used to hate... References: <001c01c3ab1d$e0154f00$740a56d1@pavilion> <3FB58EB5.2020805@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3FB58EB5.2020805@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > Lisa Sinervo wrote: > >> A movie that I never liked was the Wizard of OZ. Almost hated it in fact >> because I always wondered why anyone would make a movie with only a >> witch of >> the North, East and West and no witch of the South. > > > ... > >> >> Does anyone have any ideas about who she might be? > > > Glinda the Good is the Witch of the South. > > Dorothy's house lands on the Witch of the East, and she must go get the > Ruby Slippers from her sister, the Witch of the West. > > There was a Witch of the North in one of the books, but not in the movie > version. Ignore that part about the Ruby Slippers. Duh. Dorothy got them off the Witch of the East. But she did have to confront the Witch of the West anyway. Speaking of Ruby Slippers, here's a cool page of slipper trivia: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/6396/rubyslip.htm Anyone ever try making their own pair? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 21:41:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF2fT2q014671 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:41:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2epcC011922; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:40:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2en74011791; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:40:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2ek75011754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:40:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAF2fFUZ010869 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:41:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAF2fFPJ010867 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:41:15 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:41:15 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <125.278dfb94.2ce6e521@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <125.278dfb94.2ce6e521@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311142141.15381.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 14 November 2003 09:10 pm, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/14/2003 8:42:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > cathy@thyrsus.com writes: > > For the same reason stuff is *always* included in the DVD version--to > > provide > > extra material so the distributors can justify a higher price. > > I know. Doncha hate the "alternative ending" scam. You mean you can't > decide how to end the friggin' film???? Usually, I do. But sometimes it can be funny. For example, the movie "Clue" had 4 alternative endings. I'm told when it ran in the theaters different sites got different ones, but the video version has 'em all. It's a hoot! (By the way, has anybody noticed how off-topic this thread has become?) :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 21:41:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF2fm2q014690 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:41:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2f6cC011954; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:41:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2f674011983; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:41:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2eq74011777 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:40:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95C8D1B2BCC for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:40:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 22630-07 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:40:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9FBFC1B2504 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:40:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <09a901c3ab21$df04f3a0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031114160524.17993.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costume Movies Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:40:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tasha McGann" To: ; Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 11:05 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Movies > The BBC's Gormenghast production was gorgeous, > costume-wise (though the lighting throughout seemed > remarkably too bright for the original Peake-ian > vision). We bought the DVD just to admire the > fantastical and yet vaguely historical clothing. > > The BBC's website does a fairly nice job presenting > the costume designer's process/vision: > > http://makeashorterlink.com/?F6BC32A86 > > -Tasha I never even knew that Gormenghast had been filmed! It looks gorgeous--I'm definitely going to look for that one! Dianne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 21:43:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF2hF2q014741 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:43:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2gbcC012019; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2ga74012665; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:42:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2gX75012641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:42:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAF2h3UZ010895 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:43:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAF2h3kZ010893 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:43:03 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: OZ - Witch of the south? was Re: [h-cost] Movies I used to hate... Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:43:03 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <140.1c981e45.2ce6e921@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <140.1c981e45.2ce6e921@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311142143.03228.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 14 November 2003 09:27 pm, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/14/2003 9:23:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > dawn@reddawn.net writes: > > Glinda the Good is the Witch of the South. > > I thought she was the good Witch of the North. You are right. She *is* the good Witch of the North. I plowed through most of the OZ books (there's a whole darn series) as a kid, and I believe there is a Witch of the South in the books, but I cannot remember whether they addressed the issue in the movie to save my life. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 21:48:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF2mO2q014941 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:48:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2lYcC012267; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:47:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2lX74014909; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:47:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF2lU74014893 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:47:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-50-148.jps.net ([209.165.50.148] helo=pavilion) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AKqT8-00073n-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:47:27 -0800 Message-ID: <003b01c3ab23$992eebe0$740a56d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <140.1c981e45.2ce6e921@aol.com> Subject: Re: OZ - Witch of the south? was Re: [h-cost] Movies I used tohate... Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:53:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Glinda is the good witch of the North. There is no obvious witch of the South, hence all those sleepless nights :) but I think the movie would feel incomplete if there wasn't a witch of the south at all. Any other ideas? Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 6:27 PM Subject: Re: OZ - Witch of the south? was Re: [h-cost] Movies I used tohate... > In a message dated 11/14/2003 9:23:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, > dawn@reddawn.net writes: > > > Glinda the Good is the Witch of the South. > > > > I thought she was the good Witch of the North. > > The Witch of the South? I dunno....Katherine Harris? She's be wicked though. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 22:49:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF3n32q017261 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:49:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF3mOcC015717; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF3m3Di014586; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:48:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF3lwDi014505 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:47:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from oldwaylane.net (dialup-171.75.54.26.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net [171.75.54.26]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA15213 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:47:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FB5B091.3060806@oldwaylane.net> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:50:25 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] re: LotR costumes (was: Elizabeth) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For anyone interested in seeing some of the costumes on display at the London exhibit, check out http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/987 While photos have not ever been allowed by the public (or most press) at either of the first two exhibits, this person was allowed to take pics inside. These are the ONLY shots that have surfaced! -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 23:24:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF4OR2q018454 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:24:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF4NpcC017733; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:23:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF4NoFm002100; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:23:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF4NjFn002052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:23:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAF4OFUZ011125 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:24:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAF4OFaF011123 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:24:15 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady's purse (christmas gift) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:24:15 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <000701c3aac5$f57439e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <016301c3aac6$8077d790$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> In-Reply-To: <016301c3aac6$8077d790$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311142324.15280.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 14 November 2003 10:46 am, Teena Paradise wrote: > Bjarne, can I be your friend too? ;-) Be careful, Bjarne. You could end up making so many purses for so many friends you won't have time for a life. :-) It *is* beautiful, though. You have such talent. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 14 23:50:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF4oi2q019409 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:50:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF4mpcC019011; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:48:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF4mnFm012740; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:48:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f70.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.70]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF4mlFm012674 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:48:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:48:41 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.62 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:48:41 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.62] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: OZ - Witch of the south? was Re: [h-cost] Movies I used Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:48:41 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2003 04:48:41.0713 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE136610:01C3AB33] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo wrote: >A movie that I never liked was the Wizard of OZ. Almost hated it in fact >because I always wondered why anyone would make a movie with only a witch >of >the North, East and West and no witch of the South. Another case in which the movie doesn't follow the books. Even leaving out the Thompson and Neill books, Glinda was the Witch of the South, and the Good Witch of the North was not named, but was mentioned. Mombi may have been the deposed Wicked Witch of the North, if you accept the later intepretations. I believe that Thompson mentioned a Good Witch of the West as well later on, but my memory may be faulty. I've alway been sorry that the movie never went with Glinda's slinky red dress :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 01:00:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF60m2q022316 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 01:00:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF5xQcC021970; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:59:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF5xO5L012245; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:59:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF5xL5L012217 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:59:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-008neomahp223.dialsprint.net ([63.178.246.239] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AKtSq-0006pI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 00:59:20 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20031114234804.02d023e0@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:54:10 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200311150230.hAF2UK75006893@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] A couple of things.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Margo said, >It has been heavily revised for better >fit and more historical accuracy. Margo, if one already has the original pattern, is there anything (short of buying another pattern) to get an idea of what the revisions are? Would you think about doing a "update sheet" or something for a small fee? Just curious - have had the pattern for a while, but still haven't worked my way down through the "to do" project stack to that one yet. Second, while I liked Costner's Robin Hood POT, for a real hoot watch it first, then immediately watch Mel Brooks' "Men in Tights". Now that's funny. Sandy "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 02:20:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAF7Kj2q031265 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:20:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF7K9cC025453; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 00:20:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF7K3fc015051; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 00:20:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAF7K0fc014992 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 00:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17897 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:44:50 -0600 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:44:50 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Regarding facial types X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of mine just clued me in to a site that lets you draw your own portrait from components -- hair, eyes, nose, etc. -- as a police sketch artist might do. I've seen these sorts of things before, but the twist on this one is that the site is Russian, and the components (I suspect) are taken from drawings of Russian faces. That could be a problem for some people (there were very few blonde options, for instance!). For me, this was an advantage, as I have a Russian facial type. I was able to find suitable components for most of my features -- but not the right hairstyle, bleah! I settled for getting some of the hairline right around the brow, and the rest looks like a style I was wearing when I was about 18 (which was QUITE a while ago). Is this what they're wearing in Russia these days? Anyway: The site is set up to keep a running "average" of facial types (displayed on the main page), and at the end of 2003, the creators "will present the final average portraits of the Net Man and the Net Woman." So, go add your own, and be represented! The main page is here: http://interface.net.ru/en/ ...where you can see the average male and female so far. Click on "create your own portrait" at the top of the screen to do your own. On the left, select the male or female icon. Then click the individual components on the left, and select options from the right, and move them around on the screen. You might want to have a mirror or a good photo handy -- I tried to do it from memory at first and had a terrible time with positioning. I also found that what seemed to be a good facial shape didn't fit with the mouth I selected, and I ended up playing around with different options on both till I found a set that combined to create the right shading on the chin. (BTW, the exercise also gave me a chance to experiment with a handful of new hairstyles. Yuck, yuck, and yuck.) Oh -- you can see my result, wrong hair and all, on file at http://interface.net.ru/?face=5760 . --Robin, who spent MUCH too much time on this _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 05:45:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFAjk2q032749 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 05:45:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFAifcC003236; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 03:44:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFAibGH005955; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 03:44:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFAiZGH005941 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 03:44:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-33-178.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.33.178]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFAiYxv013633 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:44:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031115022042.05880ad0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:44:32 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] bamboo blind slats as corset bones??? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm making mid-18th Century stays. The originals I see are solidly boned with single lines of stitching between the bones. So assuming I bone the entire area of my stays, can I use the slats from bamboo blinds for the bones? I'm guessing that if the bones are really close together then they will keep each other from breaking even if they are only thin pieces of bamboo. Their thinness ought to allow the curvature inherent in the shape of these stays, especially if I soak the finished garment thoroughly then allow it to dry in position while I am wearing it. And I would have to sand each piece of bamboo carefully before installing it, to avoid splinters. Does this idea seem feasible? (I can't afford the dozens of steel bones for such a project.) Alternatively, what else could I use for bones that would be really cheap but still do the job? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 07:21:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFCLD2q003357 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:21:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFCKccC008294; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 05:20:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFCKZ5G018057; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 05:20:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from web80401.mail.yahoo.com (web80401.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAFCKY5G018021 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 05:20:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031115122028.75990.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.142.22] by web80401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:20:28 PST Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:20:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Fleury To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311150230.hAF2UK75006893@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re:DVD scam X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > For the same reason stuff is *always* included in the DVD version--to > provide > extra material so the distributors can justify a higher price. >I know. Doncha hate the "alternative ending" scam. You mean you can't >decide >how to end the friggin' film???? Hear hear! "Supposedly" the alternative ending thing is so that people working on the films won't be able to leak the endings, not knowing which they'll use. >eye roll< Another example of hollywood taking everyone for idiots. The other thing I hate is now on sets, every screw up or lame thing that happens, they delight in how "interesting" it will be for the people who buy the DVD to see the outtakes etc. And scenes that didn't work, whatever. Occasionally, the interviews give interesting insights into the mind of the rare genius, but more often than not it just exposes the fact that the filmmakers aren't that smart or inspired, just lucky. Once the DVD format includes the option of being able to play the movie with the cut scenes included what lame thing will they come up with to make you buy? I shudder to think. I guess if I was one of those people who make money off sales instead of just my salary for the duration of shooting, I'd feel differently. But heck, I! guess it works..... Jennifer Fleury Assistant Property Master "Century City" Universal Network Television _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 08:02:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFD232q004699 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:02:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFD1IcC009878; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 06:01:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFD1GUB004489; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 06:01:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFD1EUB004472 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 06:01:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.249.180.171] (pool180-44.patriot.net [209.249.180.44]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hAFD1BKS019096 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:01:12 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031115022042.05880ad0@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20031115022042.05880ad0@mail.frys.com> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:00:37 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] bamboo blind slats as corset bones??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Carolyn, I've always heard that bamboo is a bad thing to use for stays. It can break into long sharp pieces that can work their way out of the fabric and pierce an entrial. Some people use oval or half oval basket caning. We recently had a discussion of boning materials on the 18cWoman list (on Yahoogroups), and have discussed it a few times before that as well. Some people will use "found" plastics, like binding ties. A thin person can get away with using less boning or less-than-ideal materials, and someone with a figure that needs support will need more and stronger boning. It also depends on how rigid of a shape you want. It depends on the class you're portraying as well as the era - stays started out rigid in the early 18thC and were more of a natural shape by the end of it. There's a set of stays in _Corsets & Crinolines_ that are dated around 1770s, and they are not solidly boned. That technique works well with the steel bones, and you don't need to buy as many. Also be careful about the shaping. 18thC stays tend to curve to the right shape due to the way they are cut. A busk will help keep the front straight. I remember seeing a full-figured lady wearing stays that were not boned well enough & had no busk, and they ended giving her more the look of the 2nd half of the 19th century. -Carol >I'm making mid-18th Century stays. The originals I see are solidly >boned with single lines of stitching between the bones. So assuming >I bone the entire area of my stays, can I use the slats from bamboo >blinds for the bones? > >I'm guessing that if the bones are really close together then they >will keep each other from breaking even if they are only thin pieces >of bamboo. Their thinness ought to allow the curvature inherent in >the shape of these stays, especially if I soak the finished garment >thoroughly then allow it to dry in position while I am wearing it. >And I would have to sand each piece of bamboo carefully before >installing it, to avoid splinters. > >Does this idea seem feasible? (I can't afford the dozens of steel >bones for such a project.) Alternatively, what else could I use for >bones that would be really cheap but still do the job? > > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 09:32:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFEWl2q007488 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:32:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFEWAcC015319; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFEW4Wi012370; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFEW0Wi012309 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m86.in-tch.com [216.166.191.86]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAFEAlc13771 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:10:47 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FB63975.24F48A1@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:34:29 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] bamboo blind slats as corset bones??? References: <4.3.1.2.20031115022042.05880ad0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of mine and I used bamboo for our first 16th c. corsets, and they were really miserable--broke, splintered, and ended up digging said splinters into our flesh. A cheap alternative, that would be washable to boot, would be those long, flexible plastic ties you can get at hardware stores (and places like Home Depot, I assume). I picked up a big bundle of them (enough to do an 18th c. corset for a *large* woman [me]) for about 10 bucks, and they're the right width and everything. They'd be lighter than steel, and washable as well, if that's an issue. You could also do a half-boned corset, maybe? I've seen references to those. Mind you, I'm no 18th c. expert (or anything close!) but I did take a few classes through Penny's website (which is the closest I can get to 18th c. anything in Montana!) --sue Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > I'm making mid-18th Century stays. The originals I see are solidly boned > with single lines of stitching between the bones. So assuming I bone the > entire area of my stays, can I use the slats from bamboo blinds for the bones? > > I'm guessing that if the bones are really close together then they will > keep each other from breaking even if they are only thin pieces of > bamboo. Their thinness ought to allow the curvature inherent in the shape > of these stays, especially if I soak the finished garment thoroughly then > allow it to dry in position while I am wearing it. And I would have to > sand each piece of bamboo carefully before installing it, to avoid splinters. > > Does this idea seem feasible? (I can't afford the dozens of steel bones > for such a project.) Alternatively, what else could I use for bones that > would be really cheap but still do the job? > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 09:51:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFEp32q008152 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:51:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFEoScC016385; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:50:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFEoQWi020004; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:50:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFEoOWi019922 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:50:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m86.in-tch.com [216.166.191.86]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAFETBc20908 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:29:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FB63DC5.2B9C3920@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:52:53 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Books vs movies was: elizabeth References: <4D672FE3-16DB-11D8-BF3F-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <3FB535A7.5090105@uvm.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, locally, we have a young lady (age 13 or so) completely enamored of the clothing Arwen wears. Her folks are looking for ideas on what medieval clothing would most closely come to the costumes. I'm thinking something 11th or 12th century, but then I'm not *that* familiar with the movie (I've only seen the first installment, and that, only once). Am I at least on the right track? --sue Hope Greeenberg wrote: > > Have to agree about that. Though mangled, I'm glad the Arwen/Aragorn > story from appendices of the book made it into the movie. So, what > impact will the costumes from these movies have on historic costumers? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 10:00:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFF0a2q008455 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:00:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFF00cC017030; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFExxeX024654; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:59:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFExveX024606 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:59:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m86.in-tch.com [216.166.191.86]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAFEcic24786 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:38:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FB64002.83BA71D6@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:02:26 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth References: <9DFC8446-16C7-11D8-8850-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> <021301c3aad5$d98f50b0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, now, see, this is definitely one of those YMMV things. I couldn't *stand* the movie version of "The Shining!" I don't think I've yet seen a screen version of any of King's novels that I liked even half as well as the books. My guess is, because King has always been such a mind-author for me--his best and creepiest bits are those left up to *my* imagination. --sue, unable to come up with any Obligatory Costume Content this time... Teena Paradise wrote: > > My like or dislike of a movie generally has nothing whatsoever to do with > whether or not it is like the book. I will give you an example of a movie > that is excellent and a classic despite the fact it has only the basics in > common with the book.... The Shining. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 10:09:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFF952q008659 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:09:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFF8TcC017731; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:08:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFF8QeX028061; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:08:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFF8PeX028012 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:08:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m86.in-tch.com [216.166.191.86]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAFElCc28253 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:47:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FB641FE.7FE33ED8@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:10:54 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady's purse (christmas gift) References: <000701c3aac5$f57439e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oooh, every time I see your stuff, I admire it (and your talent) more. I love the shading on the roses, and the precision of your stitches--no wonky bits, just these beautiful, shining silk flowers and leaves. *sigh* I'm gonna *have* to try some of that Eterna silk, too! --sue Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hello. > I have added new things to my website, a lady's embroidered purse wich is > going to be a christmas gift for a friend, > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purse.htm > and i have also added new progress to the new embroidered suit i am making. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm > I have not started to embroider the jacket yeat, but i started to "warm up" > with an extra waistcoat for the suit with a wreath of wild briars. I am in > an embroidery freak state of mind :-) > > Bjarne > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 10:36:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFFam2q009514 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:36:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFFa2cC019603; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFFa0eX009975; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFFZveY009908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:35:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAFFYxPX022305 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:34:59 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:34:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FB64816.1050200@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:36:54 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Books vs movies was: elizabeth References: <4D672FE3-16DB-11D8-BF3F-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <3FB535A7.5090105@uvm.edu> <3FB63DC5.2B9C3920@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3FB63DC5.2B9C3920@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > Well, locally, we have a young lady (age 13 or so) completely enamored > of the clothing Arwen wears. Her folks are looking for ideas on what > medieval clothing would most closely come to the costumes. Robin's lecture about the Victorians reminded me how much fun "aesthetic dress" is. Arwen's costumes remind me of this style. It has medievalish elements, but isn't medieval at all. I tried a google search to find some sites, but the first couple of pages of hits didn't turn up a lot that was really illustrative. cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 12:01:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFH1m2q011860 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:01:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFH0wcC025145; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:00:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFH0uN9021259; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:00:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFH0rN9021234 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:00:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20395 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:25:46 -0600 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:25:45 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FB64816.1050200@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Aesthetic dress, was books and movies etc. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 15 Nov 2003, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Sue Clemenger wrote: > > Well, locally, we have a young lady (age 13 or so) completely enamored > > of the clothing Arwen wears. Her folks are looking for ideas on what > > medieval clothing would most closely come to the costumes. > > Robin's lecture about the Victorians reminded me how much fun > "aesthetic dress" is. Arwen's costumes remind me of this style. It > has medievalish elements, but isn't medieval at all. I tried a google > search to find some sites, but the first couple of pages of hits > didn't turn up a lot that was really illustrative. This has nothing to do with making an Arwen dress, but here are some sites on aesthetic dress that might interest people looking for that: http://www.fashion-era.com/aesthetics.htm Tiny pictures, but lots of summary. http://web.nwe.ufl.edu/~kchancey/corsetaesthetic.html Looks like the pictures on this site are taken from Stella Mary Newton's book on Dress Reform -- I had a couple of those as slides in my lecture (and that's where I got them). Note the quote at the end from Mrs. Haweis, whom I quote in the lecture -- she's the one that posits that Elizabethan dress is a misguided rehash of "Ancient Roman" elements. http://costume.osu.edu/Reforming_Fashion/reformdress.htm Includes a section on Artistic Dress. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 12:04:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFH4p2q011965 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:04:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFH40cC025392; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:04:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFH3xN9023033; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:03:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAFH3uN9022969 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:03:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-118-214-217.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@67.118.214.217 with plain) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2003 17:03:50 -0000 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:03:35 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:DVD scam Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20031115122028.75990.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Occasionally, the interviews give interesting insights into the mind > of the rare genius, but more often than not it just exposes the fact > that the filmmakers aren't that smart or inspired, just lucky. I'm new to the whole world of DVDs (took me a while to give up my VHS machine) but I have to say that those "director's commentary" segments are so hilariously bad! I was watching the "Gosford Park" out takes with the director's commentary and honestly, they couldn't have found people who knew less about the movie than the director! LOL! Every single segment started off with "What was this scene about? Uhhh.... Oh yeah, it was that thing about, um..." What persuaded me to buy a DVD player in the first place was the special edition DVD of "Pride & Prejudice" which promised a tempting "Making Of..." feature. What a bomb! It didn't talk about anything I was interested and spent, like, 0.3 seconds on the costumes! :P Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 12:08:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFH8i2q012176 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:08:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFH88cC025646; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:08:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFH88N9024959; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:08:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFH85N9024938 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:08:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hAFHABP11989 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:10:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:10:11 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200311151710.hAFHABP11989@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costume Movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tasha McGann wrote: > The Dead > Rabbits existed. Five Corners existed and looked > almost exactly the way it was portrayed in the movie, > according to period photos. The original book, > published in 1928, is actually a fascinating read in > that "can't look away from the trainwreck" kind of > way. It's a grim reminder that gang violence hasn't > changed much in 200 years. Actually, Roche's Guard existed. The name "Dead Rabbits" was something the Bowery Boys called the Guard. And contrary to the urban legends, the term "Dead Rabbits" appears to have meant "pickpockets." So it was in the nature of a slur. The press picked up the name and kept at it after the riot, despite people in Five Points writing letters to the editor that there was no such gang as "The Dead Rabbits." I just got finished reading a more recently released book on Five Points, which made use of some of the data from the archeological digs they've done in the area. Compared to the Election Day riots of the 1830s and 1840s, the Bowery Boys Riot wasn't that much more extreme. It's just that things had calmed down some in Five Points by the time that riot happened. The irony about the Bowery Boys Riot was that the thing that initially set it off was a set of out-of-work policemen wandering off their "turf" to harrass the new Metropolitan Police. The police departments had just been revamped in an attempt to cut down on the amount of graft and corruption that went on and a lot of men who'd gotten their spots on the old police force through bribes and political favors were suddenly out of jobs. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 12:10:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFHA62q012258 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:10:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFH9VcC025746; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:09:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFH9UN9025602; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:09:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFH9SN9025570 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:09:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f87.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.135]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 797124800C4 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:09:26 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001f01c3ab9b$4eb2d810$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:10:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] bamboo blind slats as corset bones X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Carolyn, I think this would be a very good solution to use. But as i have not ben experimenting witht his, please dont take my word for it being good. But for experimental use, it could be nice. Another alternative would be to use those narrow plastic bones, called wedding bone. I have made corsets of this many times, it is not that expensive, and i think it shapes very well. There are many ways to do it. Wedding bone has the same width as the original old whalebones, so it fits very well. Ian the staymaker in England who makes such beautifull corsets, uses ridgeline, and you cant se that when you look at his corsets. Apropos corsets, have you corsets and crinolines? Have you studyed the baroque corsets, late 17th early 18th. century ones? When you look at how the bones are set in the tabs, how would this be made, when the bones goes right out to the edge of the fabric, there is no space to sew outside the bones? Is this just a rough sketch of how the bones is placed, otherwise i think it is impossible to do. That is another story. Bjarne, who just finished a corset, with straight grain binding. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 12:14:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFHEN2q012465 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:14:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHDEcC026023; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:13:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHDDN9027490; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:13:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHDAN9027453 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:13:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f87.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.135]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9497526294B for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:13:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002901c3ab9b$d3d72a00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:13:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] margo andersons patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just buy cheap stuff (at first), say a few good words over your scissors before you cut (actually, I often ask my hubby or my mother to "bless" my scissors!) and GO for it! Rima Hi Rima, This is a good idea. I have ben sewing for many many years now, and i tell you, i have a scary time two whenever i am cutting fabric. I guess it never ends. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 12:28:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFHSl2q013152 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:28:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHRlcC026905; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:27:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHRkN9004823; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:27:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [199.170.68.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHRgN9004781 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:27:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hAFHXYWW029894; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:33:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:33:33 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] Books vs movies was: elizabeth To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FB64816.1050200@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 15 Nov 2003, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Sue Clemenger wrote: > > Well, locally, we have a young lady (age 13 or so) completely enamored > > of the clothing Arwen wears. Her folks are looking for ideas on what > > medieval clothing would most closely come to the costumes. > > Robin's lecture about the Victorians reminded me how much fun "aesthetic > dress" is. Arwen's costumes remind me of this style. It has > medievalish elements, but isn't medieval at all. I tried a google > search to find some sites, but the first couple of pages of hits didn't > turn up a lot that was really illustrative. > > > cv > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Well, all this talking about LOTR costumes (plus the fact that I drooled over the pictures of the exhibit at the Science Museum in London this morning) have really motivated me to see to 1) read the books again and 2)make some wearable and similar costumes/clothing. Being completely enamoured with the Arts and Crafts period and Aesthetic clothing of the Victorian era, I have been trying to soak up every little bit of info I can get on it. Who is Robin? What did he/she lecture on? Has anyone tried those La Mode Bagatelle aesthetic dress patterns? Are they any good? (I'm always wary of the pictures on the package...) Are there any good books out there explaining/depicting aesthetic dress? Regarding the exhibit in London: I dont' know if anyone mentioned it before, but the whole exhibit is going on tour and will be in Boston, MA at the Science Museum in August 2004 (for all you folks in the US). I'll shut up now. Kate! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 12:28:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFHSt2q013164 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:28:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHSBcC026941; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:28:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHSAN9005043; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:28:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHRpN9004830 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:27:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.76.34cfafe0 (3310) for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:27:42 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <76.34cfafe0.2ce7bc0e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:27:42 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] bamboo blind slats as corset bones??? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/15/2003 5:45:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@frys.com writes: I'm making mid-18th Century stays. The originals I see are solidly boned with single lines of stitching between the bones. So assuming I bone the entire area of my stays, can I use the slats from bamboo blinds for the bones? I don't know much about bamboo "bones", but they don't sound terribly strong/stable to me, based on what others have said. On the other hand, I know of several women who swear by cable ties, which is what I plan to use for my next corset. You can get the "extra" heavy-duty ones, which have (according to the website I plan to purchase them from) 175 pound tensile strength, and are just over 1/4" wide. I've found a pack of 50, 36" long each, for $8.90-$9.80, depending on whether you want them in natural (cheaper) or black. The site I plan to use is: http://www.cabletiesplus.com/ Hope this helps! Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 12:29:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFHTU2q013191 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:29:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHSucC026982; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:28:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHStN9005496; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:28:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [199.170.68.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHSrN9005482 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:28:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hAFHYlHo029948; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:34:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:34:46 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] Aesthetic dress, was books and movies etc. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oops. Please disregard my last message. I didn't read on enough to see that my questions have been answered! SOrry! Kate! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 12:54:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFHst2q014375 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:54:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHsOcC028433; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:54:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHsLN9020021; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:54:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHsHNA019939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:54:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAFHrJPX023675 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:53:19 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:53:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FB66882.3020309@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:55:14 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Aesthetic dress, was books and movies etc. References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > http://costume.osu.edu/Reforming_Fashion/reformdress.htm > Includes a section on Artistic Dress. Oh, right -- after I first posted, my mind started working a bit more: A dress worn by Arwen in the movie: http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/987/view/8569 One from Robin's link -- last one on the page: http://costume.osu.edu/Reforming_Fashion/impact_of_dress_reform_on_fashio.htm -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 12:56:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFHuh2q014471 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:56:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHu7cC028499; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:56:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHu7N3020856; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:56:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFHu4N3020839 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:56:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14b25.directcon.net [209.79.208.25]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hAFHIeW08517; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:18:42 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031115090854.00ac5b00@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:08:54 -0800 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] A couple of things.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20031114234804.02d023e0@radiks.net> References: <200311150230.hAF2UK75006893@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:54 PM 11/14/2003 -0600, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: >Margo said, >>It has been heavily revised for better >>fit and more historical accuracy. >Margo, if one already has the original pattern, is there anything (short of >buying another pattern) to get an idea of what the revisions are? Would >you think about doing a "update sheet" or something for a small fee? Just >curious - have had the pattern for a while, but still haven't worked my way >down through the "to do" project stack to that one yet. > I'm hoping to work out an "upgrade" package, but it will probably be a few months before I have it ready, as I'm in the throes of producing second editions of all three of the original Lady's patterns, as well as the Comfort Ensemble (kirtle, loose gown, and coif, with maternity and breastfeeding options) which will be released in January. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 13:27:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFIRg2q016073 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 13:27:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFIPjcC000214; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:25:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFIPdN3006251; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:25:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFIPYN3006130 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:25:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0509.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.254]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3225CBE767 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:25:29 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FB670D7.9080601@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:30:47 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Dickens dress question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I've been asked to work on my embroidery at a Dickens fair. The idea is that I will be sitting near a window in a house wear Queen victoria is the lady of the house. I don't have a clue what to wear. Something not too fancy.. I've heard that the queen will be played by an old lady. Would I bee like a servant?? Or young lady?? It is unfortionally not a period I know much of and I have very little time to make a costume. And I like to be as historically acurate as possible. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 14:19:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFJJM2q018739 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:19:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFJIicC003714; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:18:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFJIhVK002608; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:18:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFJIdVK002560 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:18:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f87.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.135]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id F3D1D5EE292 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:18:37 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c3abad$5e3d6680$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:19:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] Dickens dress question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Deredere, When queen Victoria is an old lady, then it should be something like 1870ies perhaps, and not a servant, i think, because Victoria would not permit her servants to embroider i think, well maybe in their sparetime, but that would be very little time. So perhaps a lady in waiting. Just my thoaghts. Could you not use your farthingale as a substitute for a crinoline, and also the corset? Then you could make a bodice and skirt, + a white apron and a little white cape for the head? Just my 2 cents. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 15:23:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFKNa2q021432 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:23:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFKN1cC007429; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 13:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFKMvpM002812; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 13:22:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFKMspM002785 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 13:22:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21433 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:47:47 -0600 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:47:47 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Aesthetic dress, was books and movies etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 15 Nov 2003, Catherine Ussailis wrote: > Oops. Please disregard my last message. I didn't read on enough to see > that my questions have been answered! SOrry! I think we missed a few: > Who is Robin? What did he/she lecture on? Cynthia was referring to a lecture I gave last week in Boston on the Victorian influence on modern understanding of medieval clothing. I touched on Aesthetic dress. (Some other people on this list have heard the lecture elsewhere.) > Has anyone tried those La Mode Bagatelle aesthetic dress patterns? Are > they any good? I haven't tried anything from the Aesthetic period, but I believe Folkwear has an "Artistic Tea Dress" also ... but maybe I'm mixing that up with another company. > Are there any good books out there explaining/depicting aesthetic > dress? Stella Mary Newton: "Health, art and reason : dress reformers of the 19th century." --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 16:08:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFL8T2q021534 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:08:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFL7qcC010226; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:07:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFL7klA024436; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:07:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFL7flA024293 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:07:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.132.274d8027 (3874) for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:07:33 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <132.274d8027.2ce7ef94@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:07:32 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/15/2003 2:19:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > When queen Victoria is an old lady, then it should be something like > 1870ies > perhaps, and not a servant Or the 1880s or 90s. It might be easiest to find an 1890s outfit. I'm not sure why I think this. At any rate, a 90s outfit wouldn't require a bustle or hoop of any kind. Just the right petticoat. And you'd most likely be a lady not a servant. You could wear a nice but not flamboyant gown. If you do 90s it could be a jacket, shirtwaist and skirt. But the 90s aren't really "Dickens". Remember "Mrs. Brown"? I remember it being past crinoline, but the ladies in waiting were wearing hoops. I remember wondering if this was because of some old, unchanged rule regarding dress around the queen. If you want "Dickens", you might want to check out what they're wearing in the film. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 16:23:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFLNv2q021563 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:23:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFLNDcC011293; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:23:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFLNBlA002131; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:23:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFLN8lA002060 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:23:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.12a.3507b64d (3874) for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:22:55 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <12a.3507b64d.2ce7f32f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:22:55 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Y'know, a nice 1860s dress isn't hard to make really. It does take yardage. And don't forget Simplicity 9761, 9764, 9769. Not perfection I know, but depending on how you fit it and what you make it out of, you can get a good result. If you already know how to sew, you could skip a mockup. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 16:26:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFLQD2q021566 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:26:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFLPScC011445; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:25:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFLPSlA003431; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:25:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFLPQlA003350 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:25:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.b9.39138869 (3874) for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:25:16 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:25:16 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Y'know, a nice 1860s dress isn't hard to make really. It does take yardage. And don't forget Simplicity 9761, 9764, 9769. Not perfection I know, but depending on how you fit it and what you make it out of, you can get a good result. If you already know how to sew, you could skip a mockup. I might just do a simple skirt...selvage to selvage panels...rather than tiers...and accessorize with great stuff. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 16:32:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFLWW2q021579 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:32:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFLVqcC011819; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:31:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFLVqlA007137; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:31:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFLVnlA007062 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:31:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp36.directcon.net [209.79.209.36] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hAFLY1W14618; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 13:34:01 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031115132946.00abd380@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 13:29:46 -0800 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costume Movies In-Reply-To: <200311151710.hAFHABP11989@gw.retro.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cooincidentally, I happened to see "Gangs of New York" last night. I HATED the women's costumes. Lots of multi-layeres ruffled and flounced skirts and peasant blouses, in bright colors, topped with corsets, for STREET wear. They looked like particularly clueless Renn Faire patrons. Even granted that many of the characters were prostitutes and other underworld denizens, this could have been done with more accuracy and still have looked just as tawdry as needed. Some of these outfits were topped with jackets that would have been fine if the film were set in the 1890's, with flared peplums and wide lapels. And Irish Catholic immigrant women coming out of a church, at a funeral, bareheaded!!! All in all, I was VERY surprised to see Sandy Powell's name on this. I usually like her work, but these costumes were off enough to be seriously distracting from a GREAT movie. There was one scene in a mansion, where we see three women in the background. All of them were wearing dresses which were quite lovely in their detail, I could tell exactly which plates out of Godey's Lady Book they were from. Given the rest of the mishmosh, I found myself wondering if they were built for the film or rented from a stock company. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 16:33:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFLXh2q021591 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:33:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFLWbcC011889; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:32:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFLWblA007533; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:32:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFLWZlA007464 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:32:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38925425CE for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:38:17 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FB69C57.9080809@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:36:23 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question References: <3FB670D7.9080601@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <3FB670D7.9080601@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > I've been asked to work on my embroidery at a Dickens fair. > The idea is that I will be sitting near a window in a house wear Queen > victoria is the lady of the house. > I don't have a clue what to wear. Something not too fancy.. > I've heard that the queen will be played by an old lady. > Would I bee like a servant?? Or young lady?? > It is unfortionally not a period I know much of and I have very little > time to make a costume. > And I like to be as historically acurate as possible. > Dickens wrote from 1834 to his death in 1870, so I would think you would not want to do a time period past that date. In 1870 Victoria would have been about 51. Maybe that is old enough. Most of the 'Dickens Fairs' that I have seen use the years about 1850-1860 for their costuming. These are big skirts and no bustles. Here is a site that has some pictures: http://www.dickensfair.com/ There are some pictures here but some of these ladies do not look properly dressed to be sitting with the queen. : http://public.fotki.com/lomoportfolio/public_events/2002_dickens_fair/ Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 17:32:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFMWK2q023021 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:32:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFMVgcC015577; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:31:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFMVdX3005797; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:31:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFMVbX3005733 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:31:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0509.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.254]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1AE8BEDDC for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:31:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FB6AA82.4070909@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:36:50 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question References: <3FB670D7.9080601@kabelfoon.nl> <3FB69C57.9080809@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I've asked and they don't really care if my costume is from the same year. As long as it is dickens style. I love this dress http://www.bowesmuseum.org.uk/collections/image.php3?Name=Wedding+Dress&image=1963-773-a-b-c-cst-742.jpg But would that work in dark red tafetta?? I may have just enough fabric for it. It is maby a little too early.. > > Dickens wrote from 1834 to his death in 1870, so I would think you > would not want to do a time period past that date. In 1870 Victoria > would have been about 51. Maybe that is old enough. > > Most of the 'Dickens Fairs' that I have seen use the years about > 1850-1860 for their costuming. These are big skirts and no bustles. > > Here is a site that has some pictures: http://www.dickensfair.com/ > > There are some pictures here but some of these ladies do not look > properly dressed to be sitting with the queen. : > http://public.fotki.com/lomoportfolio/public_events/2002_dickens_fair/ :-) :-) :-) > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 17:45:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAFMjA2q023493 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:45:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFMiVcC016372; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:44:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFMiUX3011813; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:44:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f73.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFMiRX3011753 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:44:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:44:22 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 22:44:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:44:22 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2003 22:44:22.0312 (UTC) FILETIME=[03454280:01C3ABCA] Subject: [h-cost] was: Dickens dress question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Or the 1880s or 90s. It might be easiest to find an 1890s outfit. I'm not >sure why I think this. At any rate, a 90s outfit wouldn't require a bustle >or >hoop of any kind. Just the right petticoat. > I have an 1890's walking ensemble with a hat and reticule that I made for a parade and then gained too much weight to wear it. The trim is hand beaded and the hat is fantastic. Do any of you who do Dicken's fairs think I could sell it for the cost of fabric to one of the faire groups? I really want to try again in my new size but can't buy more fabric now that the parade is passed. I have pics of my teen daughter in it, but she never wants to be that dressed up again. I'd be happy to email them as I can't put them on the web. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 15 19:17:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAG0Hx2q026478 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:17:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAG0HKcC022074; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:17:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAG0HFlm025310; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:17:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAG0HDlm025279 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:17:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.160] (pm5-160.eos.net [205.133.149.160]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAG0HB5S011117 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:17:11 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:18:01 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311151500.hAFF0FeY024786@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: Arwen's clothes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Arwen's costumes in LOTR are pure fantasy, as far as I recall. And all over the map, too! She's got medievally stuff in one scene, a Greek Chiton in another. Pretty, but not based on any one culture or era. Sorry! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 00:10:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAG5A72q030061 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:10:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAG59OcC009441; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 22:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAG59GQQ020784; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 22:09:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAG59EQQ020769 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 22:09:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-38lc2ip.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.10.89]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ALF9t-000569-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:09:13 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031113214326.15030.qmail@web60305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031113214326.15030.qmail@web60305.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 21:04:56 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 1:43 PM -0800 11/13/03, Jen Small wrote: >What's interesting to me about Elizabeth is that everyone seems mad >that it is not historically accurate. The information about packets >distributed to schools is particularly surprising to me, because if >you listen to the director's commentary, it's very clear he is not >trying to do a biopic, but rather a dramatic story "based on" the >life of Elizabeth. Timeframes are compressed, characters combined, >and some stuff entirely made up. When you listen to the director, >he is totally unapologetic about this, and actually points out with >delight the things that ARE historically accurate. Yeah, it's those "educational" packets that annoyed me particularly. Some of my costuming friends were amused when they went to see the film because -- according to them -- the director had instructed the costumers NOT to base any of their costumes on actual historical originals. However, he apparently didn't know enough about the art of the period to be able to tell when they did -- since if you actually DO know, you can spot several places where some rather well-known paintings were clearly the inspiration. Reminds me of a rather odd "costume" film (if you can call it that) that still gives me the shivers in spots -- "Therese," about St. Therese of Lisieux. Well, of course most of the costumes are the nuns' religious habits, and as far as I can tell, they are dead-on accurate. What gives me the shivers, though, is that St. Therese was one of the first well-known saints to have lived into the era when photography became common, so we have a few actual photos of her. Most of them are group pictures showing all the nuns in the convent together; the best-known one is of them out in the courtyard rinsing laundry. At least twice during the film, without any particular dramatic notice being taken of the fact (i.e. no subtitle, no dramatic camera freeze, etc.) there are moments when the exact pose of one of the photos we have is quietly re-created in front of us by the actresses in the film, in eerily correct detail, held for just an instant, and then the action and the dialog flow on. Great directing. Actually, I went to see this movie twice (and you can ask my friends how often I go to movies at all -- maybe once in five years?) and, aside from the rather strange modern sets -- including Therese's frilly, poufy 19th-century bed at home, which was set all by itself in the middle of a large, bare concrete stage -- they actually did stay remarkably close to the actual story, including a lot of small details that most people would never notice. (I believe I saw a couple of nuns in the background of one scene using actual monastic "sign language", for instance.) And I believe the movie was quite successful. So much for the claims that it can't be done :) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 01:49:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAG6nq2q030295 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 01:49:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAG6nFcC014419; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:49:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAG6nD6R006289; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:49:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAG6n76S006253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:49:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAG6nfUZ013848 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 01:49:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAG6nfSE013846 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 01:49:41 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 01:49:40 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FB670D7.9080601@kabelfoon.nl> <3FB69C57.9080809@reddawn.net> <3FB6AA82.4070909@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <3FB6AA82.4070909@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311160149.40689.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 15 November 2003 05:36 pm, Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > I've asked and they don't really care if my costume is from the same year. > As long as it is dickens style. > I love this dress > http://www.bowesmuseum.org.uk/collections/image.php3?Name=Wedding+Dress&ima >ge=1963-773-a-b-c-cst-742.jpg But would that work in dark red tafetta?? > I may have just enough fabric for it. > It is maby a little too early.. Frankly, I'd say the Bowes museum dress would be just fine period wise. It looks to be from the early to mid-1840s, which should be about right for Dickens (even if Dickens fairs do use later styles). -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 05:21:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGALA2q006478 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 05:21:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGAKPTQ009313; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 03:20:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGAKKvv004185; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 03:20:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGAKBvv004130 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 03:20:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-77.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.77]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGAKAxv023354 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 02:20:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031116014408.04bd1220@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 02:20:07 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question In-Reply-To: <3FB6AA82.4070909@kabelfoon.nl> References: <3FB670D7.9080601@kabelfoon.nl> <3FB69C57.9080809@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I've asked and they don't really care if my costume is from the same year. >As long as it is dickens style. >I love this dress >http://www.bowesmuseum.org.uk/collections/image.php3?Name=Wedding+Dress&image=1963-773-a-b-c-cst-742.jpg >But would that work in dark red tafetta?? >I may have just enough fabric for it. >It is maby a little too early.. This is an evening dress, rather than a day dress in which someone would be embroidering. Do they care about that? If not, do the dress anyway. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 10:08:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGF882q011360 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:08:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGF7QTQ020245; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:07:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGF7F7K025885; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:07:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGF7D7K025864 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-41-048.jps.net ([209.165.41.48] helo=pavilion) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ALOUa-0005bO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 07:07:12 -0800 Message-ID: <002601c3ac54$17879e20$3029a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200311150230.hAF2UK75006893@net.indra.com> <3.0.6.32.20031115090854.00ac5b00@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A couple of things.... Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 07:12:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Margo, Your patterns are really very nice! One thing if you are doing a second edition to consider would be the addition of hose to the underthings package. I don't know if this was an oversight as most CA ren folk don't wear hose, or if it was a conscious decision, but a pattern for hose goes quite well with the rest of the underthings collection and seems an essential part of the whole "underwear" line. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margo Anderson" To: "Historical Costume" ; Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A couple of things.... > At 11:54 PM 11/14/2003 -0600, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > >Margo said, > >>It has been heavily revised for better > >>fit and more historical accuracy. > >Margo, if one already has the original pattern, is there anything (short of > >buying another pattern) to get an idea of what the revisions are? Would > >you think about doing a "update sheet" or something for a small fee? Just > >curious - have had the pattern for a while, but still haven't worked my way > >down through the "to do" project stack to that one yet. > > > > I'm hoping to work out an "upgrade" package, but it will probably be a few > months before I have it ready, as I'm in the throes of producing second > editions of all three of the original Lady's patterns, as well as the > Comfort Ensemble (kirtle, loose gown, and coif, with maternity and > breastfeeding options) which will be released in January. > > Margo > > > > "One Tough Costumer" > > www.margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 10:45:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGFjw2q011444 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:45:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGFjPTQ022003; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:45:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGFjO7K012092; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:45:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGFjL7K012055 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26229 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:10:18 -0600 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:10:18 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Davenport on eBay, cheap X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No, I'm not the seller. But will someone PUHLEEZ go buy this? I'm sure there are loads of people on this list who'd love their own copy. Mine cost $35 at a used bookstore in 1982, and I was happy to get it then. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3566258467&category=2234&rd=1 (Now, don't y'all get into a bidding war with each other, OK?) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 11:15:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGGFc2q011574 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:15:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGGF0TQ023371; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 09:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGGEuOY025748; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 09:14:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGGEtOY025652 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 09:14:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0509.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.254]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A63BE6DB for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:14:49 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FB7A3B6.30507@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:20:06 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question References: <3FB670D7.9080601@kabelfoon.nl> <3FB69C57.9080809@reddawn.net> <4.3.1.2.20031116014408.04bd1220@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you all for the info!! :-) :-) :-) Looks like dark red is possible http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/boehn/mariebourbon1845.JPG But I still have one question. I found some pictures of ballgowns with long sleeves. Are they sewn in to the dress or could the be detachable as in 16th century dresses?? Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 12:16:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGHGr2q011742 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:16:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHGCTQ026183; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:16:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHGAY0026386; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:16:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHG6Y0026327 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:16:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.11f.27a8b11b (4552) for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:15:57 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <11f.27a8b11b.2ce90acd@aol.com> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:15:57 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/16/2003 11:15:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: What a yummy dress that wedding gown is! The sleeves date it 1840s [notice under the cape on the right how the back of the sleeve has ease....almost gathers....at the elbow that don't continue to the front. These are tight sleeves so the ease is needed. I wonder if they are bias. > But I still have one question. I found some pictures of ballgowns with > long sleeves. Remember a wedding dress is not a ball gown. And day dresses in the 1840s can have low horizontal necklines. I'd make the gown with the low neck and long sleeves and make the cape so it can close for "modesty". Or fill in the open neck with a lace or delicate needlework chemisette. There are patterns for them in Janet Arnold. If you get the film [actually 2 films] "Little Dorrit" you will see every variation of 1840s fashion very very accurately depicted. The second film ["Little Dorrit's Story"....the 1st film is "Nobody's Fault"] is the one that will show you the upper crust of society. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 12:27:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGHR62q011759 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:27:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHQ2TQ026727; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHQ1Y0000838; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mprdmxin.myway.com (nn1.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHPxY0000784 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:25:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 835E03977; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:25:51 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: OZ - Witch of the south? was Re: [h-cost] Movies I used Received: from [206.45.180.165] by mprdmailfe3.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:25:51 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = b7cc773b5315cf41630841a5b223e84e From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Message-Id: <20031116172551.835E03977@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:25:51 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The witch of the North was a friend of the Munchkins. In the book, she is the one who tells Dorothy about the shoes and sends her to the Wizard. Wendywww.hecate.ca/emma/--- On Fri 11/14, Marc Carlson < marccarlson20@hotmail.com > wrote:From: Marc Carlson [mailto: marccarlson20@hotmail.com]To: h-costume@indra.comDate: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:48:41 -0600Subject: Re: OZ - Witch of the south? was Re: [h-cost] Movies I usedLisa Sinervo wrote:>A movie that I never liked was the Wizard of OZ. Almost hated it in fact>because I always wondered why anyone would make a movie with only a witch >of>the North, East and West and no witch of the South.Another case in which the movie doesn't follow the books. Even leaving out the Thompson and Neill books, Glinda was the Witch of the South, and the Good Witch of the North was not named, but was mentioned. Mombi may have been the deposed Wicked Witch of the North, if you accept the later intepretations. I believe that Thompson ! mentioned a Good Witch of the West as well later on, but my memory may be faulty.I've alway been sorry that the movie never went with Glinda's slinky red dress :)Marc_________________________________________________________________Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games_______________________________________________h-costume mailing listh-costume@mail.indra.comhttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 12:35:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGHZY2q011798 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:35:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHYwTQ027227; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:34:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHYuY0005085; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:34:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHYrY1005034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:34:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAGHZTUZ025793 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:35:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAGHZSlO025791 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:35:28 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Davenport on eBay, cheap Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:35:28 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311161235.28556.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 16 November 2003 12:10 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: > No, I'm not the seller. But will someone PUHLEEZ go buy this? I'm sure > there are loads of people on this list who'd love their own copy. > > Mine cost $35 at a used bookstore in 1982, and I was happy to get it then. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3566258467&category=2234 >&rd=1 > > (Now, don't y'all get into a bidding war with each other, OK?) I should have my own copy of Davenport, so I just bid. However, I would be surprised if I don't lose out to some more desperate soul at the last minute. Thanks for the heads-up. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 12:40:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGHe62q011808 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:40:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHdWTQ027495; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:39:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHdUY0007372; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:39:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHdSY1007351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:39:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAGHe4UZ025812 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:40:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAGHe4qM025810 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:40:04 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:40:03 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FB670D7.9080601@kabelfoon.nl> <4.3.1.2.20031116014408.04bd1220@mail.frys.com> <3FB7A3B6.30507@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <3FB7A3B6.30507@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311161240.03813.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 16 November 2003 11:20 am, Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Thank you all for the info!! > > :-) :-) :-) > > Looks like dark red is possible > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/boehn/mariebourbon1845.JPG > > But I still have one question. I found some pictures of ballgowns with > long sleeves. > Are they sewn in to the dress or could the be detachable as in 16th > century dresses?? To the best of my knowledge, mid-19th century gowns did not have detachable sleeves. However it was common, at least from the 1860's onward, for the bodice and skirt to be two separate pieces (though made of the same fabric) and it was not unheard of for a woman to have two bodices for the same gown--one with a high neck and long sleeves for day wear, and one with a much lower neck and short or no sleeves for ballgown wear. I don't think the separate skirt and bodice technique was used as early as the 1840s. However, if Dickens groups tolerate use of 1850s or 1860's styles, you could do this easily. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 12:49:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGHnY2q011824 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:49:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHmgTQ028069; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:48:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHmfY0011546; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:48:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mprdmxin.myway.com (nn1.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHmbY0011477 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:48:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id DF97A3977; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:48:29 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: kostner robin hood Received: from [206.45.180.165] by mprdmailfe3.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:48:29 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = b7cc773b5315cf41630841a5b223e84e From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Message-Id: <20031116174829.DF97A3977@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:48:29 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Horrible costumes, bad accents and dumb storylines aside, Kevin Costner's Robin Hood still ranks as one of my least favourite movies because of the funny attempted rape scene at the end. Around the same time, another Robin Hood came out straight to video with Patrick Bergin and Uma Thurman. It's wonderful. Historically it's very good, the acting is great and the dialogue is fantastic.Cheers,Wendywww.hecate.ca/emma/--- On Fri 11/14, Gail & Scott Finke < gailscott@eos.net > wrote:From: Gail & Scott Finke [mailto: gailscott@eos.net]To: h-costume@indra.comDate: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:25:00 -0500Subject: [h-cost] Re: kostner robin hoodSarah wrote:> > I actually like the movie now. I sat down and watched it for the> first time in ten years a couple years back and enjoyed it. Maybe I'm> going soft in my old age...> > Nah. ;)> Yeah. :-) We're talking about the one with the peasants living in secrettree houses, right? And Robin Hood all angst-ridden a! bout his fatherremarrying? And the Sherrif of Nottingham somehow being able to be king ofEngland? Maybe you need a nice rest and relax...(note for the humor-challenged -- that's a JOKE)Again, historic or literary accuracy isn't necessary for a movie (or elseI'd have to hate "The Wizard of Oz," one of the greatest movies ever made).But at least make it plausible! I'm afraid "The Robin Hood That Must Not BeNamed" will never make my "watchable" list. But we all have different lists.Gail FinkePS: "The African Queen" also bears little relation to the book, though noone seems to mind. Ditto with "Bedknobs and Broomsticks," which has only thecharacter's names in common. And "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang," one of myfavorite family costume movie musicals. And "Mary Poppins."_______________________________________________h-costume mailing listh-costume@mail.indra.comhttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 12:59:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGHx62q011843 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:59:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHwUTQ028675; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:58:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHwTu9015940; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:58:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from TheWorld.com (pcls3.std.com [192.74.137.143]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHwPu9015919 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:58:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer ([65.96.130.231]) by TheWorld.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with SMTP id hAGHwEtx018575 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:58:20 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c3ac6b$282e31a0$65aba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> From: "M. Burns" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Aesthetic dress, was books and movies etc. Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:57:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Has anyone tried those La Mode Bagatelle aesthetic dress patterns? Are > they any good? I've made the View C underdress, out of silk dupioni. I haven't yet made the overgown as I've been short on funds and haven't had much of an occasion for such a thing yet. The sewing was a little troublesome, but I think that has a lot to do with my choice of fabric. I don't know whether LMB was relying on particular photos or examples in particular, as they don't really document their sources, but I do think they're lovely dresses. I'll post to the Great Pattern Review if/when I get around to completing the ensemble. Maura ********** Prophecy was a faith for the ignorant and a diversion for the rich, and I was neither. -(Emma Bull, Bone Dance) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 13:00:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGI0h2q011852 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:00:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGI06TQ028803; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGI05u9016648; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:00:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGI03u9016636 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:00:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.152.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.152] helo=4gxif) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ALRBq-0006vU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:00:03 -0500 Message-ID: <02a001c3ac6b$7eac3900$98f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Davenport on eBay, cheap Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:00:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For the more impatient among you, there are 41 copies on offer at Abebooks- http://www.abebooks.com/ starting as low as $20.00. Davenport comes in a variety of editions, some of which are broken into two volumes and some of which have smaller dimensions than the edition I have. Check the listing carefully before you buy. -Helen/Aidan ----- Original Message ---- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historic Costume List" Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 12:10 PM Subject: [h-cost] Davenport on eBay, cheap > > No, I'm not the seller. But will someone PUHLEEZ go buy this? I'm sure > there are loads of people on this list who'd love their own copy. > > Mine cost $35 at a used bookstore in 1982, and I was happy to get it then. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3566258467&category=2234&rd=1 > > (Now, don't y'all get into a bidding war with each other, OK?) > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 13:11:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGIBr2q011887 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:11:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGIA1Tk029270; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:11:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGI8Lu9020534; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:08:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGI8IuA020510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:08:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAGIG9vL002510 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:16:10 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "H-Costume" Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:09:27 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] OT Book Repair Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Considering the number of Librarians and bookaholics on this list I thought I'd ask a question here. I recently bought a copy of Birth, Marriage and Death in Tudor England from an Amazon dealer. The book is put out by Oxford University Press in an "On Demand" binding. This binding looks for all the world like those cheap children's classics I remember from the 1950's with a slick cover whose hinges break away as you look at them. When the book came in the mail that's what had happened. Both the front and back inside hinges had torn, and the body of the book is nearly separated from the binding. What can I do to repair it into readability? The seller has already offered to allow me to return the book for refund (I'm not impressed), but the price was good, and I wanted a reading copy. Suggestions on how to re-attach the binding? Regina Romsey/Wanda Pease Sit vis nobiscum. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 14:03:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGJ3S2q012126 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:03:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGJ2oTQ002690; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:02:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGJ2nnP018356; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:02:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGJ2knP018339 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:02:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.143.207.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([67.74.143.207] helo=diane) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ALSAW-0005nm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:02:46 -0800 Message-ID: <014e01c3ac74$460321a0$a5bf4a43@diane> From: "Diane Maynard" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FB670D7.9080601@kabelfoon.nl> <3FB69C57.9080809@reddawn.net><4.3.1.2.20031116014408.04bd1220@mail.frys.com> <3FB7A3B6.30507@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:02:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I want that red dress ! I have no where to wear it but, I want it ! Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question > Thank you all for the info!! > > :-) :-) :-) > Looks like dark red is possible > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/boehn/mariebourbon1845.JPG > > But I still have one question. I found some pictures of ballgowns with > long sleeves. > Are they sewn in to the dress or could the be detachable as in 16th > century dresses?? > > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 14:34:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGJYI2q012249 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:34:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGJXgTQ004252; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:33:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGJXenP003357; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:33:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGJXcnP003337 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:33:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-107-115.kc.rr.com [65.30.107.115])hAGJXVnf007946 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:33:36 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20031116134056.00a09870@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:45:11 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:DVD scam In-Reply-To: References: <20031115122028.75990.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:03 AM 11/15/03 -0800, Sarah wrote: >I'm new to the whole world of DVDs (took me a while to give up my VHS >machine) but I have to say that those "director's commentary" segments are >so hilariously bad! I was watching the "Gosford Park" out takes with the >director's commentary and honestly, they couldn't have found people who >knew less about the movie than the director! LOL! Every single segment >started off with "What was this scene about? Uhhh.... Oh yeah, it was >that thing about, um..." > >Sarah You know, I only have *one* DVD that I watch over and over with the commentary on ... Dark City. For those who have never seen it, it's a science fiction movie made in a kind of film noir style. The commentary is done by Roger Ebert. He dissects the whole movie scene by scene, offering interesting insights on the lighting, character development and symbolism. I think I like the commentary track better than the dialogue sometimes! (It also has some interesting 40's influences in the costumes.) Sheryl Nance-Durst _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 14:53:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGJrW2q012350 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:53:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGJq5TQ005273; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:52:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGJq4nP012024; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGJq1nQ011987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAGJqbUZ026167 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:52:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAGJqb2t026165 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:52:37 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Davenport on eBay, cheap Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:52:36 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <02a001c3ac6b$7eac3900$98f74a43@4gxif> In-Reply-To: <02a001c3ac6b$7eac3900$98f74a43@4gxif> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311161452.36852.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 16 November 2003 01:00 pm, Helen Pinto wrote: > For the more impatient among you, there are 41 copies on offer at Abebooks- > http://www.abebooks.com/ > starting as low as $20.00. Davenport comes in a variety of editions, some > of which are broken into two volumes and some of which have smaller > dimensions than the edition I have. Check the listing carefully before you > buy. I may do so--since I have already been outbid. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 15:07:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGK7C2q012393 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:07:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGK6VTQ006200; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:06:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGK6TKl019376; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:06:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGK6QKl019355 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:06:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-50-095.jps.net ([209.165.50.95] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ALTA8-0002qI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:06:25 -0800 Message-ID: <001201c3ac7d$e11bf0a0$5f32a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031116172551.835E03977@mprdmxin.myway.com> Subject: Re: OZ - Witch of the south? was Re: [h-cost] Movies I used Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:11:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, in L. Frank Baum's version of The Wizard of Oz there there are four witches, North, South, East and West. The North and South witches are good, and the East and West witches are bad. There is also a wizard who lives in the City of Emeralds. The favourite color in the land of the East is Blue, and the munchkins are delighted that Dorothy has worn a blue and white dress because blue is their favourite colour and good witches wear white so they know she is a friendly witch, plus they like the fact that she killed the wicked witch of the East. Her shoes BTW were silver in the book. Both the south and the north countries of OZ are represented by red in the book. Glinda, the witch of the South has a red castle and the witch of the north has a castle made of ruby bricks. In the movie, the witch of the south is absent, but the shoes that Dorothy wears change from silver, to ruby, the symbol of the witch of the south and good witches in general! So I think, Dorothy represents the witch of the South in the movie. This of course is all coming from a symbolic thinker and open for debate. But The Wizard of Oz is a very good movie, that feels complete. If the witch of the South was absent completly, the movie would feel the absence and I think more people would wonder where the missing witch was. Anyway, I now sleep at night and enjoy the movie much more these days. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy" To: Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 9:25 AM Subject: Re: OZ - Witch of the south? was Re: [h-cost] Movies I used > The witch of the North was a friend of the Munchkins. In the book, she is the one who tells Dorothy about the shoes and sends her to the Wizard. Wendywww.hecate.ca/emma/--- On Fri 11/14, Marc Carlson < marccarlson20@hotmail.com > wrote:From: Marc Carlson [mailto: marccarlson20@hotmail.com]To: h-costume@indra.comDate: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:48:41 -0600Subject: Re: OZ - Witch of the south? was Re: [h-cost] Movies I usedLisa Sinervo wrote:>A movie that I never liked was the Wizard of OZ. Almost hated it in fact>because I always wondered why anyone would make a movie with only a witch >of>the North, East and West and no witch of the South.Another case in which the movie doesn't follow the books. Even leaving out the Thompson and Neill books, Glinda was the Witch of the South, and the Good Witch of the North was not named, but was mentioned. Mombi may have been the deposed Wicked Witch of the North, if you accept the later intepretations. I believe that Thompson ! > mentioned a Good Witch of the West as well later on, but my memory may be faulty.I've alway been sorry that the movie never went with Glinda's slinky red dress :)Marc_________________________________________________________________Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games_____________________ __________________________h-costume mailing listh-costume@mail.indra.comhttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. > Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 15:07:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGK7X2q012396 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:07:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGK6xTQ006244; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGK6wKl019593; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:06:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGK6hKl019490 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:06:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.152.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.152] helo=4gxif) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ALTAQ-0000ET-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:06:42 -0500 Message-ID: <004701c3ac7d$36051ca0$98f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Book Repair Question Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:07:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Regina- I can give you some suggestions if you supply the following information: How many pages in the book? What type of binding is the book block itself- sewn or glued? What is the condition of the binding, other than the missing covers? Has the book block separated into sections or is it still intact? What's the page size? I'm currently thinking Japanese, which I know I can walk you through for minimal cost and effort. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 15:46:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGKk82q012604 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:46:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGKjVTQ008408; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:45:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGKjUKl008928; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:45:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav2.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGKjRKl008877 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:45:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:45:22 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav2.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:45:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1d4.1467c00a.2ce5aa10@aol.com> Subject: Re: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:44:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Nov 2003 20:45:22.0469 (UTC) FILETIME=[8E016D50:01C3AC82] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > And I read it 9 times > > How many times have you read "Le morte d'Arthur"? Once, by now - but what does it have to do with it? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 16:00:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGL0i2q012648 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:00:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGL08TQ009222; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGL07Xu016507; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:00:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGL04Xu016460 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:00:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAGLAkjp025139 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:10:46 -0800 Message-ID: <3FB7E46A.8090908@misc.com> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:56:10 -0800 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question References: <3FB670D7.9080601@kabelfoon.nl> <3FB69C57.9080809@reddawn.net> <4.3.1.2.20031116014408.04bd1220@mail.frys.com> <3FB7A3B6.30507@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To Deredere- At least in the _early_ 1840's, dresses did come with the option of removing the lower, long sleeves: Bradfield Pg 175-176 (Costume in Detail) Arnold Pg 64 and 66 (Patterns of Fashion) Bodices were attached to the skirts as one piece but the those lower necklines were filled in with chemisettes for the day look. Dicken's Faire can be a little rough-and-tumble (mostly from the uneducated non-costumed ones!!!), so something as fancy and elegant as the Marie Bourbon dress could be at risk for damage (trampling, spilled beer, the crush of humanity, etc.). I've found a nicely constructed and trimmed day dress to be a lot safer!! Good luck there, Theresa Eacker Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > Thank you all for the info!! > > :-) :-) :-) > Looks like dark red is possible > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/boehn/mariebourbon1845.JPG > > But I still have one question. I found some pictures of ballgowns with > long sleeves. > Are they sewn in to the dress or could the be detachable as in 16th > century dresses?? > > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 16:03:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGL3x2q012669 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:03:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGL3MTQ009370; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:03:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGL3LXu018117; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:03:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav65.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGL3HXu018053 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:03:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:03:12 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav65.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:03:12 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.2.20031114104135.01c34b08@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] florence or venice 1520-1560 period fabric Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:57:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Nov 2003 21:03:12.0519 (UTC) FILETIME=[0BCE1970:01C3AC85] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hey there... my .02 > > While there is some evidence supporting the creation of a silk > similar to dupioni - Luca Mola's book on the Venetian silk industry - the > evidence suggests that the material was specifically a fabric for 'domestic > use' and not a good enough quality fabric for fashion or export. > > Closer fabrics to the original would be if you could find a tuxedo satin > silk (high gloss finish) , or a silk twill (non-high gloss finish) > Good luck. > Bridgette > > >I absolutely love the clothing of the period in florence and venice. Is > >Dupioni silk appropriate for the era? I'd like to use it for my gown. > >Camacia is lightweight linen I'd like to be as historically accurate as > >possible, allowing for budget and the desert climate of extreme lower > >Arizona. Thank you, (again) Angelique I agree with this. While I wouldn't recommend dupioni, I wouldn't complain too much if someone wanted to use it, as long as they are aware that (unless I'm just not aware of it) there is no direct evidence of it being used for clothing, at least in the higher classes. I have seen some silk called dupioni that didn't have any slubs at all - maybe it was just mislabeled - that might be a solution for you if you still want dupioni. And if you go with silk, remember to flatline it with something that breathes (linen is great imo, because it drapes well, is heavy and breathes well) to get it to hang well, because silk is usually very light. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 16:11:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGLBa2q012694 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:11:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGLAsTQ010019; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:10:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGLAqXu021989; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:10:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav33.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGLAnXu021889 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:10:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:10:44 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav33.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:10:43 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4D672FE3-16DB-11D8-BF3F-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: LOTR Re: [h-cost] Books vs movies was: elizabeth Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:10:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Nov 2003 21:10:44.0024 (UTC) FILETIME=[18EC4B80:01C3AC86] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Books and movies are vastly different mediums, thank goodness. Each > have their strengths and weaknesses. Jackson did the best he could in > filming a series of book that have taken on religious proportions with > some people. He's got a pair of brass ones just for that fact alone. > The movies are brilliantly executed, even though I have been extremely > displeased with some plot changes. I would have given my eye teeth to > work in the costuming department. I'll try to make this my last comment on the matter, because, really, this is getting far from historical costume matters :-) I just take it this way: the first movie was amazing. Yes, he did change things, but they were consistent with the book, even if they didn't follow at all what happened in it. I expected a lot from the second movie because of this. I was highly disappointed. Not because he changed things, but because he made things up that were impossible or had no place in the universe of the books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 16:19:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGLJn2q012714 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:19:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGLJ7TQ010460; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:19:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGLJ5Xu025803; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:19:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav56.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.191]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGLJ3Xu025738 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:19:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:18:57 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav56.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:18:57 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002e01c3aa88$47ddd3a0$97725651@bella><003a01c3aa91$2613d680$44a176cb@michaela> <200311142042.40555.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:18:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Nov 2003 21:18:57.0957 (UTC) FILETIME=[3F547D50:01C3AC87] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > For the same reason stuff is *always* included in the DVD version--to provide > extra material so the distributors can justify a higher price. :-( (I'm > really beginning to hate the DVD format for this reason--the "extras" are > just a waste of time in too many instances). Depends how much you liked the movie. If it's one you're going to watch 10-15 times anyway, then you're probably interested in hearing director's commentary, and actor's commentary. If not, then it's a waste of time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 16:25:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGLPS2q012743 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:25:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGLO9TQ010880; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:24:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGLO7Xu028270; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:24:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGLO3Xu028155 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:23:58 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:23:58 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.1.6.0.20031114234804.02d023e0@radiks.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A couple of things.... Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:23:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Nov 2003 21:23:58.0469 (UTC) FILETIME=[F272FB50:01C3AC87] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Margo said, > >It has been heavily revised for better > >fit and more historical accuracy. > Margo, if one already has the original pattern, is there anything (short of > buying another pattern) to get an idea of what the revisions are? Would > you think about doing a "update sheet" or something for a small fee? Just > curious - have had the pattern for a while, but still haven't worked my way > down through the "to do" project stack to that one yet. I was just about to say the same thing. I wouldn't mind paying for an "updates" package. You told us a while back you were going to make the skirt so it uses less fabric, and the bodice so the strap is sewn directly to the front of the bodice. These are two things I would love to get, but I can't really afford to buy a whole new set! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 16:28:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGLSo2q012749 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:28:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGLSDTQ011121; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:28:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGLSDXu000436; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:28:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav8.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.112]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGLSAXu000365 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:28:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:28:05 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav8.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:28:05 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4D672FE3-16DB-11D8-BF3F-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><3FB535A7.5090105@uvm.edu> <3FB63DC5.2B9C3920@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Books vs movies was: elizabeth Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:27:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Nov 2003 21:28:05.0697 (UTC) FILETIME=[85CEFB10:01C3AC88] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well, locally, we have a young lady (age 13 or so) completely enamored > of the clothing Arwen wears. Her folks are looking for ideas on what > medieval clothing would most closely come to the costumes. I'm thinking > something 11th or 12th century, but then I'm not *that* familiar with > the movie (I've only seen the first installment, and that, only once). > Am I at least on the right track? > --sue I think you're on the right track :-) Anything that could be called a bliaut (I know, this is vague and doesn't mean what we think it means and... and...) will probably do the trick. But you'd be even better if you looked at Victorian drawings of medieval dreses ehehe ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 17:23:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGMN82q012919 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:23:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGMMPTQ014349; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:22:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGMMLWQ026260; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:22:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav18.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGMMIWQ026213 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:22:12 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav18.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:22:12 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200311150230.hAF2UK75006893@net.indra.com> <3.0.6.32.20031115090854.00ac5b00@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A couple of things.... Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:21:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Nov 2003 22:22:12.0836 (UTC) FILETIME=[15411240:01C3AC90] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm hoping to work out an "upgrade" package, but it will probably be a few > months before I have it ready, as I'm in the throes of producing second > editions of all three of the original Lady's patterns, as well as the > Comfort Ensemble (kirtle, loose gown, and coif, with maternity and > breastfeeding options) which will be released in January. > > Margo I'm willing to wait. It's not like I have nothing to play with in the meantime ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 17:37:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGMbA2q012969 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:37:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGMaVTQ015153; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:36:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGMaTWQ002952; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:36:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGMaMWR002890 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:36:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAGMaxUZ026410 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:36:59 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAGMax5k026408 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:36:59 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: LOTR was: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:36:58 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200311142042.40555.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311161736.58991.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC-Servercave-Metrics: net.indra.com 1183; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 16 November 2003 04:18 pm, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > For the same reason stuff is *always* included in the DVD version--to > > provide > > > extra material so the distributors can justify a higher price. :-( (I'm > > really beginning to hate the DVD format for this reason--the "extras" are > > just a waste of time in too many instances). > > Depends how much you liked the movie. If it's one you're going to watch > 10-15 times anyway, then you're probably interested in hearing director's > commentary, and actor's commentary. If not, then it's a waste of time. Commentary can be interesting, depending on who it comes from (on the Babylon 5 discs I have, Straczynski's commentary on some of the episodes are among the more interesting things on the discs. Unfortunately, some DVDs don't confine themselves to that type of extra. Most of the other Bab5 freebies on the disc (trite summaries of the space station functions that duplicate everything you could learn from the episodes, and pocket summaries of the characters) are a waste of time. Some of the "making of" documentaries featured on the discs are pretty information light and a waste of time also, in my opinion. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 18:09:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGN9u2q013118 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:09:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGN9MTQ017009; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:09:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGN9KfD021678; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:09:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEIthgU008845 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:55:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp456786pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.237](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003111418553501400t3ho5e>; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:55:36 +0000 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:52:06 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Allison To: Allison Pace Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:09:19 -0700 Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: COSTUMER'S INFO: Digest Number 547 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Of possible interest to my costuming buddies. Allison P. Begin forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:31:05 -0500 > From: Paula Davis-Larson > Subject: Library Resource > > Hi all, > > In the November issue of "Choice", a bibliographic journal that most > libraries use, a great essay can be found titled "Costume and Fashion > History". It is a useful tool for anyone working to round out your > library's holdings in our subject area not to mention just having in > the files. It lists books in the categories of reference books, > historical costume, by time period, couture, American, construction, > cultural, and several more. An excellent resource! Contact your > librarian! > > Best, > > Paula _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 20:34:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAH1YD2q013553 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:34:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH1XNTQ025940; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:33:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH1XGTh004806; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:33:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH1XDTi004782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:33:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAH1f7vL025466 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:41:07 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT Book Repair Question Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:34:22 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <004701c3ac7d$36051ca0$98f74a43@4gxif> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Helen/Aidan The book is actually brand new. Oxford University Press has gone to a glued rather than sewn. The spine and boards are one piece of rather tacky cardboard covered with a shiny plastic overlay with no reinforcement at the hinges. They glue a piece of paper inside across the spine and possibly the inside cover, fold the plastic jacket in and cover that with another piece of paper over the inside cover and across the front of the carcass. The same for the back piece. The carcass of the book is glued together. No sewing in this book. Unfortunately when you set the book down hard, or send it through the mail with inadequate packing, where someone tosses it into a bag with hundreds of other small packages, those hinges tear. Now I need a way of reattaching the cover so I can use the book, which is fascinating and has great pictures! It could be that this is the publishing wave of the future that some of us have been requesting so we could get scholarly texts without having to have a publisher do a big print run and get stuck with it, or do a small print run and have only University libraries be able to afford it! If this is the case (pun intended) knowing how to fix the hinges is something we are all going to want to know! Regina Romsey > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Helen Pinto > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 12:07 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Book Repair Question > > > Hi, Regina- > I can give you some suggestions if you supply the following information: > How many pages in the book? > What type of binding is the book block itself- sewn or glued? > What is the condition of the binding, other than the missing covers? > Has the book block separated into sections or is it still intact? > What's the page size? > I'm currently thinking Japanese, which I know I can walk you through for > minimal cost and effort. > -Helen/Aidan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 21:59:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAH2xb2q013790 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:59:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH2wkTQ002574; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:58:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH2wgDR022735; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:58:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH2wdDR022710 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:58:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.155.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.155] helo=4gxif) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ALZb3-0001Gm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:58:38 -0500 Message-ID: <010801c3acb6$bafbdf00$9bf74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Fw: [h-cost] OT Book Repair Question Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:58:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Regina- So the spine is in good condtion and all the pages are firmly attached together? And all that essentially happened is that the covers came off? If you have no strong objections to the cover, you can re-attach it using book repair tape. This is a pre-gummed linen tape, 1 or 2 inches wide. I'd suggest the 2" tape. Hollander's has it- it's the first item on this page: http://www.hollanders.com/supplies-kits/bookbinding/bindingtapes.htm A really good art store might also stock it. (If you really hate the covers, use them as a template to cut something out that you like.) Clean the book block up, if necessary, and cut a piece of tape the length of the spine. Fold it in half length-wise, unglued side in, and press the crease with a bone folder. The back of a spoon will work nicely if you don't have a bone folder. Wet the side going onto the front of the book block and press it in place. Let it dry for a bit, then wet the other side and place the front cover on top. Line it up and press it down, weight it with another book, and leave it overnight. Repeat with the back cover. Add some more re-inforcement by running another piece of tape to cover the spine on the outside of the book and bring a small piece over the top and bottom edge of the covers onto the hinge inside. (If the book is too thick for the tape, run several pieces of tape horizontally.) I think this should salvage the book for a few years. Another possibility is a Japanese binding, but this will only be possible if the book block is less than 1/2" thick, and there is at least 3/4" of blank space on the pages into the crease. This will be a sewn, permanent binding, and very attractive; you can customize the cover and stitching as you wish. The reference is Kojiro Ikegami's _Japanese Bookbinding_. This is what a Japanese sewn binding looks like: http://www.dickblick.com/zz128/50/products.asp?param=0&ig_id=4857 If you want more information, just let me know. -Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 22:08:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAH38u2q013811 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:08:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH37tTQ003089; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:07:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH37sDR027830; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:07:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH37mDS027739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:07:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAH36lPX014601 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:06:47 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:06:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FB83BBB.3060907@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:08:43 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls updated page References: <3FAEDF57.3030101@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <3FAEDF57.3030101@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For those who are interested, I have a bunch of new images on my caul page. The page discusses the look of the medieval earmuff type cauls and "hennin" underpinnings, and one method of making them which is almost certainly not medieval. http://www.virtue.to/articles/easy_cauls.html -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 16 23:19:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAH4JW2q014018 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:19:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH4IfTQ007409; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:18:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH4IbpQ004910; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:18:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH4IYpQ004886 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:18:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hAH4KfI20011 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:20:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:20:41 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200311170420.hAH4KfI20011@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Half-globe cauls updated page X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >http://www.virtue.to/articles/easy_cauls.html Cynthia, about half the image links are broken right now. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" :wq _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 04:01:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAH91r2q024961 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:01:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH90MTQ020948; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:00:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH90J8G008690; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:00:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH90F8G008650 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:00:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hAH8uYA26924.; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:56:34 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:55:00 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:54:29 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: Re: Re: [h-cost] Time travel and musketeers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>>I wrote: >When I saw "The Three Musketeers" when it first came out, I was >disappointed that the few genuinely dramatic moments were played down in >favour of comedy - but perhaps that was just youthful idealism on my part. and Brenda replied: >I felt the same way... but then I read the book. I meant that I saw the film having already read the book. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 04:37:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAH9bK2q003142 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:37:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH9aiTQ022371; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:36:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH9ac8G023435; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:36:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAH9aU8G023322 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:36:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hAH9c3A00788.; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:38:03 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:36:29 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:36:05 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> AlbertCat@aol.com 11/14/03 08:30pm >>> wrote: >Your take on "A Knight's Tale" is interesting but.... >Did peasants [there's little or no middle class y'know] get to go to >tournaments? Shouldn't they be working???? They don't get the week end >off, y'know. I'm not a medieval expert and haven't seen the film in question, but weren't there a lot of saint's day holidays? (I've read that Shakespeare's reference in "Henry V" to "those men in England who do no work today" doesn't mean the unemployed, but that it was St. Crispin's Day, a religious holiday.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 06:45:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHBj32q021015 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:45:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHBh8TQ028606; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:43:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHBh526013728; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:43:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from web01-imail.rogers.com (web01-imail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHBh326013680 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from 39jz301 ([63.138.108.193]) by web01-imail.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20031117114301.BDEG159496.web01-imail.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:43:01 -0500 Message-ID: <002201c3acff$f324f7b0$c16c8a3f@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Movies Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:42:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at web01-imail.rogers.com from [63.138.108.193] using ID at Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:43:01 -0500 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > I'm not a medieval expert and haven't seen the film in question, but > weren't there a lot of saint's day holidays? (I've read that > Shakespeare's reference in "Henry V" to "those men in England who do no > work today" doesn't mean the unemployed, but that it was St. Crispin's > Day, a religious holiday.) Almost every day is a saint's day of some kind. However, the vast majority of them were not observed as holidays (that is, non-working holidays). The ones that were were usually the big-name saints, perhaps a locally-important saint or two, and the parish's patron. Crispian and Crispianus, the two saints of St. Crispin's day, were patrons of shoemakers as well, so it is possible that trade guilds associated with shoemaking would have considered this a feast day and not have worked. Susan Nicolaa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 07:10:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHCAo2q021129 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:10:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHCAMTQ000291; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:10:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHCAGge026642; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:10:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHCACgf026586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:10:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAHC9APX016426 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:09:10 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:09:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FB8BADB.9080509@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:11:07 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fixed: Half-globe cauls updated page References: <200311170420.hAH4KfI20011@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200311170420.hAH4KfI20011@gw.retro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: >>http://www.virtue.to/articles/easy_cauls.html > > Cynthia, about half the image links are broken right now. Thank you! They should be fixed now. cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 08:30:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHDUm2q021312 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:30:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHDUETQ005254; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:30:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHDUCni005190; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:30:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHDU8ni005109 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:30:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (unknown[66.31.43.36](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2003111713300201500ndr5fe>; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:30:02 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:29:31 -0500 From: Lauren Walker To: Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: bamboo slats in stays X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In a message dated 11/15/2003 5:45:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, > kayta@frys.com writes: > I'm making mid-18th Century stays. The originals I see are solidly boned > with single lines of stitching between the bones. So assuming I bone the > entire area of my stays, can I use the slats from bamboo blinds for the bones? I'm having a bit of trouble getting my h-costume messages to sort in a sensible chronological order -- time zones on the "sent" column perhaps? so I may be wrong, but it seems to me this question did not get addressed. Apologies if it did. The 18th C re-enactors around here use half-round chair cane (which I think is bamboo, maybe, or reed) in 18th C stays, putting two pieces in each channel, so that you get a roundish piece that has somewhat more strength than a single slat alone would. It makes a pair of stays that reminds me of Japanese fencing armor, but the reed appears to hold up pretty well. Some folks soak the reeds in glycerin prior to use, and/or soak the stays themselves in glycerin once a year to keep the reeds from drying out. Again many apologies if this was already addressed, but I didn't see anybody going for it. Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 08:53:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHDrh2q021368 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:53:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHDr0TQ006406; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHDqvni016531; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:52:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from zinc.btinternet.com (zinc.btinternet.com [194.73.73.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHDqtni016510 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:52:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from host81-129-39-117.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.129.39.117] helo=dan) by zinc.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1ALjoF-0004KT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:52:55 +0000 Message-ID: <007501c3ad12$3f541f00$75278151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:53:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] V&A Tapestry Gallery event 29 and 30 November 'Live a Gothic Life' X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, For those interested in Gothic aristocratic and courtly life, not to mention the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries, living in in striking distance of London, this event looks pretty unmissable! *************************************************************** LIVE A GOTHIC LIFE LIVING HISTORY AND DAILY LIFE EVENT Saturday 29 and Sunday 30 November 11.00-17.00, free For the first time, the V&A presents a living history weekend in the splendid setting of the Tapestry Gallery. The backdrop of the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries is ideal for these presentations of the upper end of medieval life, where you can find out about aristocratic and courtly life including hunting, eating and etiquette, daily life, warfare and tournament. This will link closely to the objects on display in the exhibition and would be an ideal accompaniment to a visit to the exhibition. ************************************************************** best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 09:05:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHE5P2q021396 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:05:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHDxkTQ006828; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:59:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHDxiRj019809; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:59:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from zinc.btinternet.com (zinc.btinternet.com [194.73.73.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHDxbRj019758 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:59:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from host81-129-39-117.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.129.39.117] helo=dan) by zinc.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1ALjui-0005e5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:59:36 +0000 Message-ID: <007d01c3ad13$2ead5080$75278151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:00:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] ot Stevie sorry! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I've been in hospital with a rather spectacular bout of pneumonia, and now that I'm out, and feeling a bit better, have managed to dump rather a lot of emails by mistake. They included ones from h-cost members visiting London, whom I had hoped to meet and do some museum-crawling with, so sorry to those people! best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 09:23:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHENK2q021458 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:23:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHEMdTQ008152; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:22:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHEMZRj001878; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:22:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAHEMVRj001798 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:22:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OgDHPSyP4dxBbhimoSX8BrY=">; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:22:20 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JE7P7FRY; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:22:20 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:17:55 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Book Repair Question Message-ID: <20031117.062129.1836.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-6,10-16,18-97 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Regina-- I worked for a library in my teenage years. We used to repair books with this problem by placing a strip of sticky book tape between the boards and the block of pages. It was so long ago though that I have no idea what the stuff is even called. Have you considered calling a library and asking them? Also craft stores which carry bookmaking supplies might be able to help. Art Media is a good place to start. They also carry bone folders. One of my apprentices gets all her bookcrafting supplies there. Good luck! Arlys On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:34:22 -0800 "Wanda Pease" writes: > Helen/Aidan > > The book is actually brand new. Oxford University Press has > gone to a > glued rather than sewn. The spine and boards are one piece of > rather tacky > cardboard covered with a shiny plastic overlay with no reinforcement > at the > hinges. They glue a piece of paper inside across the spine and > possibly the > inside cover, fold the plastic jacket in and cover that with another > piece > of paper over the inside cover and across the front of the carcass. > The > same for the back piece. > > The carcass of the book is glued together. No sewing in > this book. > > Unfortunately when you set the book down hard, or send it > through the mail > with inadequate packing, where someone tosses it into a bag with > hundreds of > other small packages, those hinges tear. Now I need a way of > reattaching > the cover so I can use the book, which is fascinating and has great > pictures! > > It could be that this is the publishing wave of the future > that some of us > have been requesting so we could get scholarly texts without having > to have > a publisher do a big print run and get stuck with it, or do a small > print > run and have only University libraries be able to afford it! If > this is the > case (pun intended) knowing how to fix the hinges is something we > are all > going to want to know! > > Regina Romsey > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Helen Pinto > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 12:07 PM > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Book Repair Question > > > > > > Hi, Regina- > > I can give you some suggestions if you supply the following > information: > > How many pages in the book? > > What type of binding is the book block itself- sewn or glued? > > What is the condition of the binding, other than the missing > covers? > > Has the book block separated into sections or is it still intact? > > What's the page size? > > I'm currently thinking Japanese, which I know I can walk you > through for > > minimal cost and effort. > > -Helen/Aidan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 11:05:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHG5o2q021773 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:05:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHG50TQ017305; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHG4lPD020213; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:04:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHG4fPD019981 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:04:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:04:29 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:04:22 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Re: Lady's Purse (Christmas gift) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Absolutely gorgeous Bjarne! As usual :). out of curiousity, did you make the lace? and if so, will you share the pattern? I was just given a frament of 16thC lace very much like this lace. The main difference is that the 'fan' is worker with the thinner threads and the gimp thread just weaves in and out on the inner ovals. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 11:51:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHGpK2q021914 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:51:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHGnrTQ021753; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:49:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHGnVgX001895; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:49:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHGfbPD024022 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:41:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00656 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:06:38 -0600 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:06:38 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] German book on medieval dress and textiles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anyone heard/seen anything about this one? Mehthild Muller, Die Kleidung nach Quellen des fruhen Mittelalters. Textilien und Mode von Karl dem Grossen bis Heinrich III Walter de Gruyter, Berlin and New York , 2003 --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 12:03:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHH3d2q021950 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:03:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHH2rTQ023238; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:02:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHH2q2i015160; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:02:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHH2l2i014958 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:02:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:42:27 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:42:14 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Costume, movies and DVD's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whew, catching up from a long weekend. I have also enjoyed many of the costume movies mentioned, and also gnashed my costumer's teeth over a few too. I am not as frustrated as I used to be, having learned more about the theatricallity that *has* to go into these over the years, but I still find it jarring when films hype their authenticity, like Elizabeth & Braveheart, and don't deliver, or blend drastically different styles, as in A Knight's Tale. I enjoyed all three of these but AKT probably gave me the most twitches. My husband bought me the DVD for Elizabeth as it was supposed to have a 'special feature' on the costumes but all I could really find was a short bit in the general 'making-of' piece. Nice to have the DVD pause for studying however :). And for those that wanted more of Faramir in LOTR, rent or buy the extended version of Two Towers. The new or expanded scenes greatly rescue this character (not to mention give you another glimpse of Sean Bean :) ). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 12:14:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHHEh2q021979 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:14:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHHDoTQ024483; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:13:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHHDl2i025794; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:13:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from fed1mtao01.cox.net (fed1mtao01.cox.net [68.6.19.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHHDg2i025621 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:13:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.west.cox.net ([172.18.180.53]) by fed1mtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031117171337.CRNL3322.fed1mtao01.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:13:37 -0500 From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] bamboo blind slats as corset bones??? Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:13:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20031117171337.CRNL3322.fed1mtao01.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Does this idea seem feasible? (I can't afford the dozens >of steel bones >for such a project.) Alternatively, what else could I use >for bones that >would be really cheap but still do the job? I've used bamboo slats from blinds quite successfully in an Elizabethan corset and a late Victorian Corset. They were easy to cut, though tricky to get into tight channels with the splintering. I used heavy cotton duck on either side of the bones and the bottom of the channels. I've washed both corsets several times with no deforming or staining, and no stray splinters. Heidi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 14:07:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHJ7l2q022388 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:07:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHJ6fTQ007458; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:06:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHJ6TN2021020; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:06:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHJ6PN2020972 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:06:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from eos.eos.net (eos.eos.net [205.133.149.75]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hAHI8xHZ016771 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:08:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from (pm5-157.eos.net [205.133.149.157]) by eos.eos.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - LINUX Jul 17 2001 16:58:31); Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:58:25 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:10:18 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311161900.hAGJ0XnQ017318@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-SMTP-HELO: [205.133.149.157] X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: gailscott@eos.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: pm5-157.eos.net [205.133.149.157] X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: book repair X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If it's good enough, take it to a bookbinder and have it rebound. If it's not that good, take it to a printer and have it drilled and spiral or Wiro bound. Don't get that cheap plastic Ibico binding, the kind usually used for course packs and things, unless you're only going to read it once or twice. It holds up but the pages will rip if you refer to it a lot. Spiral and Wiro binding can be done on any size book. If it's about 8.5 x 11 inches, you can also go to a printer and have it drilled to fit a 3-hole binder. Again, not a durable solution if you're going to refer to the book often. I don't know how much professional bookbinding costs, but the other solutions will be pretty inexpensive. Go to a real printer, not Kinkos. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 14:09:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHJ9h2q022397 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:09:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHJ8jTQ007755; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:08:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHJ8hN2023247; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:08:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHJ8eN2023191 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:08:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from eos.eos.net (eos.eos.net [205.133.149.75]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hAHIfBHZ027788 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:41:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.133.149.157] (pm5-157.eos.net [205.133.149.157]) by eos.eos.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - LINUX Jul 17 2001 16:58:31); Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:30:37 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:42:41 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311171714.hAHHEE2j026238@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-SMTP-HELO: [205.133.149.157] X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: gailscott@eos.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: pm5-157.eos.net [205.133.149.157] X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: Dr. Zhivago X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The new television version of "Dr. Zhivago" just played on our PBS station. I don't know anything about the period, or clothing in Russia, but I enjoyed the costumes (with the exception of Lara's "first grownup dress" -- what the heck was that?). I was curious about several particular dresses, which Lara is shown wearing when she lives in the Urals after the war. They look like 1920s-style day dresses, made from panels of Russian (Ukranian?) embroidery. Accurate or not, they were fantastic dresses, especially on a tall, willowy person of the kind favored at the time -- which Kiara Whats-her-name is. I read a little about the production, and the director said that since so many more people are familiar with the old movie than with the book, they had to keep the movie in mind while they were filming this one. The actress in the original (Julie Christy, right?) is such a familiar sight in her fur hat and long hair that they show this Lara the same way many times. I thought that was a fun touch, if you can have a fun touch in this kind of movie. The ending is much sadder than I remember the ending of the old movie being, even though I had no sympathy for Lara and Yuri's doomed romance. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 14:58:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHJwG2q022555 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:58:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHJvITQ013443; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:57:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHJvFBc011397; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:57:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHJvBBc011244 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:57:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.15b.27c6b72d (4459) for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:57:03 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <15b.27c6b72d.2cea820f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:57:03 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dr. Zhivago To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/17/2003 2:09:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: > The ending is much sadder than I remember the ending of the old movie Really? Him having a heart attack while trying to get her attention and he falls in the street....with strangers rushing to him....but she unaware turns the corner and walks away. [all that hydro-electic damn stuff was kinda for the USSR] There are so many perfect images from David Lean's masterpiece....the winter palace, the twig tapping against the window, the petals falling from the sunflowers in the empty hospital, The broken glasses falling in the snow, the spark of the trolley when they 1st meet.....it's not an old movie of a book, it's art. I had no interest in the remake. But they are the folks who did "Pride & Prejudice" so I don't mean to diss them. I don't think this project was such a good idea, that's all. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 15:24:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHKOA2q026854 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:24:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKN2TQ016490; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:23:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKMpXC007463; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:22:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40106.mail.yahoo.com (web40106.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAHKMlXC007283 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:22:47 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031117201600.25707.qmail@web40106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.6.123] by web40106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:16:00 PST Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:16:00 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is it possible? I had been told by a dear friend of mine some time ago that they were nearly impossible to dye. I am hoping she meant RIT dye? I have a cream and some white and am hoping for a russet. What Do you think? Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 15:39:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHKda2q026931 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:39:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKceTQ018422; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:38:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKcZwW023351; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:38:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKcRwX023103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:38:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAHKbNPX018957 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:37:24 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:37:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FB931F9.20405@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:39:21 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? References: <20031117201600.25707.qmail@web40106.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031117201600.25707.qmail@web40106.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO me wrote: > Is it possible? I had been told by a dear friend of mine some time ago that they were nearly impossible to dye. I am hoping she meant RIT dye? I have a cream and some white and am hoping for a russet. What Do you think? Angelique The first question to figure out is: what is the fiber? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 15:46:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHKkO2q026979 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:46:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKjYTQ019385; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:45:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKjRwW001287; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:45:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKjLwW001084 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:45:16 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:45:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031117201600.25707.qmail@web40106.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:44:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Nov 2003 20:45:16.0128 (UTC) FILETIME=[B4A39E00:01C3AD4B] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Subject: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? > Is it possible? I had been told by a dear friend of mine some time ago that they were nearly impossible to dye. I am hoping she meant RIT dye? I have a cream and some white and am hoping for a russet. What Do you think? Angelique What is the fiber contents? I'm assuming it's synthetic - in this case, you'll have to do a test first. Some synthetics can be dyed, but not all of them. Nylon, for example, is nearly impossible to dye. If I were you I'd open a pack of RIT, swirl some of it in a cup and dump a small piece of fabric in it. If after rinsing it holds the color, you should be fine. If not and you really want to dye your fabric, you'll have to find dyes made specifically for synthetics. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 15:56:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHKuG2q027052 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:56:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKtZTQ020438; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:55:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKtUP0011802; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:55:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKrBjA009172 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:53:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0509.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.254]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4662DBEAA4 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:53:00 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FB9366C.2000705@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:58:20 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] 1845 corset underwear question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, If I want to make a 1845 corset and chemise witch one would be best? I have Simplicity 5726 and 7215. Is this is still pre hoop? http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 15:56:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHKuj2q027064 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:56:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKu0TQ020485; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKttP0012302; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:55:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHKtEP0011483 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:55:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1c0.11c2c34e (3932) for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:54:59 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1c0.11c2c34e.2cea8fa2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:54:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/17/2003 3:46:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > If I were you I'd open a pack of RIT, swirl some of it in a cup and dump a > small piece of fabric in it. Boiling will sometimes get a tough fabric to take some color, so put your test on the stove too. Boiling sometimes wrinkles the satin and it's impossible to get really smooth again. Be warned. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 16:02:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHL2b2q027168 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:02:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHL1gTQ021110; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:01:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHL1dP0018160; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:01:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHL1ZP0018082 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:01:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02399 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:26:36 -0600 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:26:36 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > If I were you I'd open a pack of RIT, swirl some of it in a cup and dump a > small piece of fabric in it. If after rinsing it holds the color, you should > be fine. If not and you really want to dye your fabric, you'll have to find > dyes made specifically for synthetics. Easier: Use liquid RIT, one teaspon to one cup boiling water. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 16:21:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHLLq2q027240 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:21:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHLKlTQ023456; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:20:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHLKhP0008557; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:20:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHLKdP0008504 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:20:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-77.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.77])hAHLKWA1014595 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:20:37 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031117130530.05261640@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:06:07 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question In-Reply-To: <3FB7E46A.8090908@misc.com> References: <3FB670D7.9080601@kabelfoon.nl> <3FB69C57.9080809@reddawn.net> <4.3.1.2.20031116014408.04bd1220@mail.frys.com> <3FB7A3B6.30507@kabelfoon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Dicken's Faire can be a little rough-and-tumble (mostly from the >uneducated non-costumed ones!!!), so something as fancy and elegant as the >Marie Bourbon dress could be at risk for damage (trampling, spilled beer, >the crush of humanity, etc.). I've found a nicely constructed and trimmed >day dress to be a lot safer!! Yes what she said, so make your dress washable. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 16:33:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHLXK2q027284 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:33:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHLVHTQ024987; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:31:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHLVFP0019146; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:31:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHLV9P0018971 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:31:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0509.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.254]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 425EA1A009A for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:31:04 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FB93F59.3050209@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:36:25 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question References: <3FB670D7.9080601@kabelfoon.nl> <3FB69C57.9080809@reddawn.net> <4.3.1.2.20031116014408.04bd1220@mail.frys.com> <3FB7A3B6.30507@kabelfoon.nl> <4.3.1.2.20031117130530.05261640@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I"ll stay indoors and wil only sit near a window and embroider. So I don't worry about my dress getting dirty. People can only watch me from outside :-) . Indoors is a nice idea because it is winter here in the netherlands. The event will be 20 and 21 decemberrr... And it can be wet, cold, and maby even snow. Friends of me will be outside the whole day :-P . I wiil be cosy and warm... And maby a little bored :-) Greetings, Deredere Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> Dicken's Faire can be a little rough-and-tumble (mostly from the >> uneducated non-costumed ones!!!), so something as fancy and elegant >> as the Marie Bourbon dress could be at risk for damage (trampling, >> spilled beer, the crush of humanity, etc.). I've found a nicely >> constructed and trimmed day dress to be a lot safer!! > > > Yes what she said, so make your dress washable. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 16:55:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHLto2q027353 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:55:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHLt5TQ027167; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:55:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHLt2jo010329; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHLsug6010093 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:54:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.84.1c9934cb (3932) for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:49:08 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <84.1c9934cb.2cea9c54@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:49:08 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset underwear question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/17/2003 3:56:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > If I want to make a 1845 corset and chemise witch one would be best? > I have Simplicity 5726 and 7215. > Is this is still pre hoop? > I think the 5726 looks more 1840s. The chemise should not have full sleeves since sleeve are tight in the 1840s. Both corsets seem OK. There's a great 1844 corset in Norah Waugh's "Corset's and Crinolines" with gussets as well as shaped pieces like a "French corset". It's hard to see the exact cut of the corsets but I'd use the one that is closest to the Norah Waugh....IOW, with gussets and shaped pieces. I think that might be 7251. If you can get a copy of "Corsets and Crinolines" and want to make up the real 1844 corset....I have and the waist is very much narrower than the large bust cups. A draw string in the top of the corset did the trick and looked good [you keep it smooth in the back of course]. I also put a bone down the center of each piece. Have fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 16:57:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAHLvh2q027361 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:57:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHLpnTQ026704; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:51:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHLpkg6006975; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:51:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHLphg6006826 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:51:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.12f.35479d28 (3932) for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:50:36 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <12f.35479d28.2cea9cac@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:50:36 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens dress question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/17/2003 4:32:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > I wiil be cosy and warm... And maby a little bored :-) > Don't forget you'll be absolutely lovely too in your red gown. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 19:35:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAI0ZX2q027866 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:35:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI0VPTQ013818; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:31:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI0UmYJ000702; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:30:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [199.170.68.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI0UiYJ000650 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:30:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hAI0acns017284; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:36:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:36:36 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] German book on medieval dress and textiles To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Robin Netherton wrote: > > Anyone heard/seen anything about this one? > > Mehthild Muller, Die Kleidung nach Quellen des fruhen Mittelalters. > Textilien und Mode von Karl dem Grossen bis Heinrich III Walter de > Gruyter, Berlin and New York , 2003 > > --Robin > Just read the little ditty on amazon.de...Looks like the sort of thing that I would buy if I had the money. Knowing the Germans, it's probably very thorough (perhaps painfully so). Not sure where you are, but it seems that Berkeley Uni Library has a copy... Kate > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 20:16:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAI1GP2q028165 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:16:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI1DZTQ016989; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:13:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI1DOT9027138; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:13:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI1DJT9027101 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:13:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from p713-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.205] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ALuQe-0003Tt-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:13:17 +1300 Message-ID: <006001c3ad71$24706040$cdc2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031117201600.25707.qmail@web40106.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:13:13 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What is the fiber contents? I'm assuming it's synthetic - in this case, > you'll have to do a test first. Some synthetics can be dyed, but not all of > them. Nylon, for example, is nearly impossible to dye. Actually it's not. Nylon dyes up very well.. nylon lace, nylon lycra... maybe just not with rit. But the Dylon multipurpose it designed specifically to colour this. It even says it on the pack. I was told I'd never be able to dye the nylon lycra I bought to make a costume from: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/movies/poison.htm I was even able to alter the temp and amount of time the fabric was in the pot to get different shades. The pale green is just hot and dipped in only, the legs are simmering and for a little bit longer. I'm sure it could have gotten even darker if I'd used more dye. You could argue it's the lycra that took the dye.. but no, not to the extent the fabric absorbed the colour. I also know someone who dyed a lot of nylon lace from cream to black for a costume. She's in the states so I'm not sure what product she used. > If I were you I'd open a pack of RIT, swirl some of it in a cup and dump a > small piece of fabric in it. If after rinsing it holds the color, you should > be fine. If not and you really want to dye your fabric, you'll have to find > dyes made specifically for synthetics. If you were to try that with stove top dye you'd get a false result;) You'd need the heat. I've also had polyester grab a fair bit of dye. Some delustred satin which I knew to be poly went a lovely pale pink after being dipped in cold dye. It was stove top stuff. The same stuff dyed up some lace a deep maroon colour (it was a burgundy dye.) Actually I've also have stretch satin take a bit of dye... again I wanted it pale so it was ok that it didn't take all the cherry red dye;) Another dress which was a poly/cotton brocade, ground of cotton and pattern in poly took the dye in the poly. Very pale blue, but then when I overdyed it with the same colours... the poly grabbed more of the green in the dye (navy) and went a funny colour. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com A lot of fabric on my site is dyed by me. Went into it not aware of what would or wouldn't dye up;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 20:25:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAI1PD2q028239 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:25:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI1OHTQ017778; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:24:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI1OGT9003771; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:24:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav59.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI1OET9003709 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:24:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:24:05 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav59.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:24:05 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031117201600.25707.qmail@web40106.mail.yahoo.com> <006001c3ad71$24706040$cdc2adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:23:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Nov 2003 01:24:05.0916 (UTC) FILETIME=[A85EADC0:01C3AD72] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Actually it's not. Nylon dyes up very well.. nylon lace, nylon lycra... Hmm, maybe I got mixed up again. I don't know much about synthetics, so maybe I'm confused. > > If I were you I'd open a pack of RIT, swirl some of it in a cup and dump a > > small piece of fabric in it. If after rinsing it holds the color, you > should > > be fine. If not and you really want to dye your fabric, you'll have to > find > > dyes made specifically for synthetics. > > If you were to try that with stove top dye you'd get a false result;) You'd > need the heat. I never use stove top dye because I don't have anything big enough to boil the amount of fabric I usually want to dye. So if the water is not quite warm enough for the package directions, as long as it's warm, I at least know if it will hold the dye or not, even if it doesn't really tell me the end color or shade. In any case, test it. Then you'll know. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 21:28:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAI2SV2q028464 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:28:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI2RoTQ022783; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:27:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI2Rh1O010771; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:27:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI2Rb1O010690 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:27:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.21.3776bcc7 (3932) for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:27:30 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <21.3776bcc7.2ceadd92@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:27:30 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/17/2003 8:25:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > So if the water is not quite > warm enough for the package directions You can turn up the temp on the water heater. There's usually a little knob-like thing in the unit's thermostat. Sometimes it requires a screw driver. Just don't forget to turn it back down. You don't want anyone to scald themselves with unexpectedly hot water. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 21:29:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAI2Tb2q028467 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:29:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI2T2TQ022889; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI2T11O011508; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI2S11P010893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAI2SgUZ029635 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:28:42 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAI2SgmZ029633 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:28:42 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset underwear question Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:28:41 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FB9366C.2000705@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <3FB9366C.2000705@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311172128.42016.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 17 November 2003 03:58 pm, Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > If I want to make a 1845 corset and chemise witch one would be best? > I have Simplicity 5726 and 7215. > Is this is still pre hoop? 1845 is still "pre hoop". I'm not familiar with the Simplicity patterns you've mentioned, so I have no further advice. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 21:32:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAI2Wp2q028477 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:32:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI2WETQ023244; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:32:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI2WC1O013270; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:32:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav34.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI2WA1O013154 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:32:04 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav34.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:32:04 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <21.3776bcc7.2ceadd92@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:31:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Nov 2003 02:32:04.0758 (UTC) FILETIME=[278C9360:01C3AD7C] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > So if the water is not quite > > warm enough for the package directions > > You can turn up the temp on the water heater. There's usually a little > knob-like thing in the unit's thermostat. Sometimes it requires a screw driver. Just > don't forget to turn it back down. You don't want anyone to scald themselves > with unexpectedly hot water. The problem is usually that when I do a test, I do it in a cup or glass and it cools very quickly. But thanks for the tip (though I think I'd just boil some water and use that instead, it would be less complicated). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 22:50:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAI3ou2q028655 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:50:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI3o8TQ028750; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:50:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI3o39v026850; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:50:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI3o09v026747 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1dd.14a17461 (3932) for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:49:47 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1dd.14a17461.2ceaf0da@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:49:46 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset underwear question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/17/2003 9:30:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, cathy@thyrsus.com writes: > I'm not familiar with the Simplicity patterns > you've mentioned, so I have no further advice. > If you go to Simplicity.com , do a design search and plug in the numbers you'll see them. They really are not bad. Some complaints corset-wise, but the chemises look OK. Still, I don't have the patterns and you cannot see the actual pattern pieces to judge. But not bad. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 23:48:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAI4mw2q028804 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:48:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI4mKTQ002811; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:48:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI4mH7k029247; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:48:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI4mE7k029197 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:48:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hAI4mCAA022022 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:48:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.16] (tnt-1-101.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.37]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAI4m9RC021988 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:48:11 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <21.3776bcc7.2ceadd92@aol.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:42:09 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:31 PM -0500 11/17/03, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > > So if the water is not quite >> > warm enough for the package directions >> >> You can turn up the temp on the water heater. There's usually a little >> knob-like thing in the unit's thermostat. Sometimes it requires a screw >driver. Just >> don't forget to turn it back down. You don't want anyone to scald >themselves >> with unexpectedly hot water. > >The problem is usually that when I do a test, I do it in a cup or glass and >it cools very quickly. But thanks for the tip (though I think I'd just boil >some water and use that instead, it would be less complicated). If you have a glass-lined thermos bottle, you could do your test in that to maintain the temperature. (I wouldn't try it in a plastic thermos.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 17 23:57:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAI4vt2q028833 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:57:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI4uCTQ003389; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:56:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI4uBg2003870; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:56:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav34.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI4u7g2003803 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:56:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:56:02 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav34.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:56:02 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <21.3776bcc7.2ceadd92@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:55:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Nov 2003 04:56:02.0503 (UTC) FILETIME=[440BDD70:01C3AD90] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If you have a glass-lined thermos bottle, you could do your test in > that to maintain the temperature. (I wouldn't try it in a plastic > thermos.) > > Heather That's a very good idea! Thanks! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 18 02:47:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAI7lr2q013678 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:47:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI7l7TQ011646; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 00:47:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI7l29V003879; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 00:47:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAI7kt9V003729 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 00:46:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from p54-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.182] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AM0Ym-00012a-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:46:05 +1300 Message-ID: <004801c3ada8$040d3030$b6cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <21.3776bcc7.2ceadd92@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:46:01 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The problem is usually that when I do a test, I do it in a cup or glass and > it cools very quickly. But thanks for the tip (though I think I'd just boil > some water and use that instead, it would be less complicated). lol! That reminds me of somehting someone posted to their livejournal recently... Something like, when the US astronauts went into space, NASA realised that ordinary pens wouldn't work and spent lots of money on creating a pen that would write upside down, (underwater?) and in zero gravity. When faced with the same problem the Russians used a pencil. ;) Just a little story about how a complicated path and a simple path can come to the same result (writing in space.) Still, there may be other benefits from going the complicated route;) I'm sure I've gone the complicated way in costuming too... but my brain is too fryed right now to figure out what it was;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 18 09:29:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAIET52q004807 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:29:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIESDTQ000681; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:28:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIESAQZ013680; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:28:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIES6QZ013625 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:28:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hAIETdA25315.; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:29:39 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:28:02 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:27:39 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Charles II, was Costuming in movies rant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I watched this last night, having recorded it on Sunday. I thought the costumes were pretty good, particularly the men's. The MPs reminded me of some of Rembrandt's group portraits. Charles and Buckingham had new suits with petticoat breeches after the Restoration, and Charles wore a beautiful lace collar. The writer admitted that he had taken some liberties with details of historical fact. The oddest thing was that Charles was seen witnessing his father's execution (a dream sequence?) and that the Worcester campaign was totally ignored. On the whole, I enjoyed it. Oh, and Rufus Sewell's eyes were hazel. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 18 10:50:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAIFoT2q005052 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:50:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIFmnTQ006844; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:48:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIFmkx5013233; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:48:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIFmfx5013064 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:48:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:28:23 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:28:14 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Help Finding a Portrait X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I figured this is the best bunch to ask for help on something like this :). I am trying to find a color version of the portrait identified as Catherine de Medici on the bottom of this page: http://www.history-magazine.com/1580stimeline.html I have only been able to find a b&W version on this webpage and in a book on lace, which attributes it to one of the Clouets, but no information on what collection it is in. I still have a few costume books at home to check through but so far, no luck. If anyone knows of another book this could be found in, preferably in color, I would really appreciate the information. Then ILL here I come! Thanks, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 18 11:05:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAIG5v2q005115 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:05:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIG59TQ008464; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:05:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIG57PV028398; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIG53PV028335 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from karen (CPE-24-31-232-172.kc.rr.com [24.31.232.172]) hAIG50hL005014 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:05:00 -0600 (CST) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Help Finding a Portrait Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:04:19 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you don't have any luck here, try contacting History Magazine and asking them where they got the photo? Just a thought... Talia > I figured this is the best bunch to ask for help on something like this > :). > > I am trying to find a color version of the portrait identified as > Catherine de Medici on the bottom of this page: > http://www.history-magazine.com/1580stimeline.html > > Thanks, > Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 18 11:25:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAIGPa2q005158 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:25:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIGOnTQ010785; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:24:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIGOkPV017260; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:24:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAIGOgPV017192 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 67112 invoked by uid 1005); 18 Nov 2003 16:24:34 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.099807 secs); 18 Nov 2003 16:24:34 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.099807 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2003 16:24:34 -0000 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:24:38 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Help Finding a Portrait In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031118112417.I14514-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Looks like a Clouet, to me...I don't recall seeing it anywhere before, though. Drea > > > I figured this is the best bunch to ask for help on something like this > > :). > > > > I am trying to find a color version of the portrait identified as > > Catherine de Medici on the bottom of this page: > > http://www.history-magazine.com/1580stimeline.html > > > > Thanks, > > Catherine > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 18 11:47:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAIGlb2q005209 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:47:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIGkATQ013284; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:46:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIGjtPV007442; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIGjgPV007142 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:45:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1e0.13adc552 (16633) for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:45:27 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1e0.13adc552.2ceba6a7@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:45:27 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/18/2003 2:48:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: > >The problem is usually that when I do a test, I do it in a cup or glass > and > >it cools very quickly. But thanks for the tip (though I think I'd just > boil > >some water and use that instead, it would be less complicated). > > lol! That reminds me of somehting someone posted to their livejournal > recently... Something like, when the US astronauts went into space, NASA > realised that ordinary pens wouldn't work and spent lots of money on > creating a pen that would write upside down, (underwater?) and in zero > gravity. > > When faced with the same problem the Russians used a pencil. > Of course one could just do it in a sauce pan on the stove eliminating the cooling "problem". Duh. My water heater advice was meant for those who dye in their washing machines.....which is what I thought was going to happen. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 18 12:39:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAIHds2q005385 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:39:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIHcmTQ019171; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:38:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIHcd5g029783; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:38:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIHcX5g029700 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:38:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip229.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.229]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5606AA91 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:32:23 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:38:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? Message-ID: <3FB9E89B.10571.BAC85C4@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <21.3776bcc7.2ceadd92@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In a message dated 11/17/2003 8:25:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, > audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > > > So if the water is not quite > > warm enough for the package directions > > You can turn up the temp on the water heater. There's usually a little > knob-like thing in the unit's thermostat. Sometimes it requires a > screw driver. Just don't forget to turn it back down. You don't want > anyone to scald themselves with unexpectedly hot water. Many newer water heaters are fixed so that you can't turn them up (at least not without ruining the insulation.) They are factory set to the "safe" temperature. I've gotten around this by adding hot water from the stove to the washing machine. I use the hottest water it will get to partially fill the washing machine, then I boil water on the stove and add that to the washing machine. Then I dissolve my dye in a small amount of hot water or use liquid dye, then put it into the water. *Then* (and only then) put the fabric in to be dyed. Periodically, I add more hot water to the machine to help maintain the temperature while I'm doing the dyeing. But you have to watch it carefully so that it doesn't go too far into the cycle and dump all your dye water. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 18 23:06:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJ46P2q031042 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:06:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJ45TTQ020321; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:05:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJ45MGI005168; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:05:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJ45JGI005145 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:05:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from alderweb.vaxxine.com (ppp218.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.218]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJ45Ii2012383 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:05:19 -0500 (EST) X-RCPT-To: Message-Id: <4.3.0.20031118230808.00d21100@pop.vaxxine.com> X-Sender: alderweb@pop.vaxxine.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:10:05 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: David Webb In-Reply-To: References: <004701c3ac7d$36051ca0$98f74a43@4gxif> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Fashion on the Ohio Frontier: 1790-1840 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sound like an interesting exhibit at Kent State University, Ohio! Finishes in Feb. 2004. http://dept.kent.edu/museum/exhibit/ohio/main.htm Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 18 23:26:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJ4QF2q031206 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:26:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJ4PdTQ021951; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:25:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJ4PcGI017667; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:25:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJ4PYGJ017622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:25:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAJ4QJUZ000440 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:26:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJ4QJPW000438 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:26:19 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion on the Ohio Frontier: 1790-1840 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:26:19 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <004701c3ac7d$36051ca0$98f74a43@4gxif> <4.3.0.20031118230808.00d21100@pop.vaxxine.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.0.20031118230808.00d21100@pop.vaxxine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311182326.19316.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 18 November 2003 11:10 pm, David Webb wrote: > Sound like an interesting exhibit at Kent State University, Ohio! Finishes > in Feb. 2004. > > http://dept.kent.edu/museum/exhibit/ohio/main.htm Thanks. This is an excellent site. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 00:24:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJ5Ok2q031369 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:24:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJ5O9TQ026958; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:24:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJ5O55m025774; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:24:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAJ5O15m025665 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCiM1k1X9wFD2n6h8yfD6AOFOM+0p1+lUfw==">; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:23:20 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JFBV5YJ8; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:23:20 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:17:10 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion on the Ohio Frontier: 1790-1840 Message-ID: <20031118.231710.-7426515.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-10,12-31 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a really excellent site! The dresses are ones that don't show up in many other sources. I hope Bjarne takes a look at this because there are some dresses and suits I think he'd appreciate. I particularly like the 1780 Robes a L'Anglaise since I have one on my List and good examples are not as plentiful as, say, the polonaise style. I think I really need to get that catalogue.... Karen On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:26:19 -0500 Catherine Olanich Raymond writes: > On Tuesday 18 November 2003 11:10 pm, David Webb wrote: > > Sound like an interesting exhibit at Kent State University, Ohio! > Finishes > > in Feb. 2004. > > > > http://dept.kent.edu/museum/exhibit/ohio/main.htm > > Thanks. This is an excellent site. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven > Wright > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 00:48:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJ5mM2q031405 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:48:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJ5lmTQ028996; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJ5lj5m011603; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:47:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAJ5lf5m011572 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:47:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031119054741.69892.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.24] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:47:41 PST Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:47:41 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion on the Ohio Frontier: 1790-1840 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.0.20031118230808.00d21100@pop.vaxxine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Great site! Thanks for sharing!--I think I need to order the catalogue---- cheers and Best-- Albra David Webb wrote: Sound like an interesting exhibit at Kent State University, Ohio! Finishes in Feb. 2004. http://dept.kent.edu/museum/exhibit/ohio/main.htm Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 04:56:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJ9ua2q030514 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:56:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJ9tvTQ010945; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:55:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJ9trdw020287; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:55:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40108.mail.yahoo.com (web40108.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAJ9tqdw020262 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:55:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031119095546.36200.qmail@web40108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.7.49] by web40108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:55:46 PST Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:55:46 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] historic patterns - Tudor? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My husband is interested in the Tudor era of clothing. Any Ideas on historical patterns? I can find a huge number of Elizabethan patterns. Maybe adjust them? Thank you , Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 07:33:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJCXN2q006426 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:33:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJCWgTQ019315; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 05:32:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJCWbsu003219; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 05:32:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJCWXsu003110 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 05:32:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0509.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.254]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524C51A0441 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:32:27 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FBB641D.7020203@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:37:49 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset underwear question References: <84.1c9934cb.2cea9c54@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks! I think I will make the 7215 corset, I don't have "Corsets and Crinolines" yet and no time to order it. But I'll make the chemise from 5726 and mabey the petticoat. I am not sure wat a petticoat have looked like but I won't be wearing period shoes ider. As long as they don't see it it's ok. At least I can start because I've got the permission to come to the Dickensfestival :-) Greetings, Deredere AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 11/17/2003 3:56:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, >triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > > > >>If I want to make a 1845 corset and chemise witch one would be best? >>I have Simplicity 5726 and 7215. >>Is this is still pre hoop? >> >> >> > >I think the 5726 looks more 1840s. The chemise should not have full sleeves >since sleeve are tight in the 1840s. Both corsets seem OK. There's a great 1844 >corset in Norah Waugh's "Corset's and Crinolines" with gussets as well as >shaped pieces like a "French corset". It's hard to see the exact cut of the >corsets but I'd use the one that is closest to the Norah Waugh....IOW, with gussets >and shaped pieces. I think that might be 7251. > >If you can get a copy of "Corsets and Crinolines" and want to make up the >real 1844 corset....I have and the waist is very much narrower than the large >bust cups. A draw string in the top of the corset did the trick and looked good >[you keep it smooth in the back of course]. I also put a bone down the center >of each piece. > > >Have fun! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 08:39:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJDdR2q006553 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:39:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJDbUTQ022800; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:37:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJDbPvv005328; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:37:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJDbNvv005306 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:37:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hAJDbDns023676 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:37:21 -0500 Message-ID: <003101c3aea2$41cdd7d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031119095546.36200.qmail@web40108.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic patterns - Tudor? Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:37:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Period Patterns has Tudor patterns. Their patterns are not for beginning sewers, however! I think the cheapest place I have seen that sells the PP patterns is www.pillagedvillage.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "me" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:55 AM Subject: [h-cost] historic patterns - Tudor? > My husband is interested in the Tudor era of clothing. Any Ideas on historical patterns? I can find a huge number of Elizabethan patterns. Maybe adjust them? Thank you , Angelique > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 09:07:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJE712q006636 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:07:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJE6MTQ025600; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:06:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJE6L7B024730; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:06:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14003.mail.yahoo.com (web14003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAJE6I7B024708 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:06:18 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031119140618.86736.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:06:18 GMT Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:06:18 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic patterns - Tudor? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031119095546.36200.qmail@web40108.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO costume connection does a couple of things. try http://www.sewingcentral.com --- me wrote: > My husband is interested in the Tudor era of > clothing. Any Ideas on historical patterns? I can > find a huge number of Elizabethan patterns. Maybe > adjust them? Thank you , Angelique > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 10:18:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJFIp2q006942 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:18:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJFHtTQ001730; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:17:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJFHrmg012740; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:17:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx03.uni-tuebingen.de (mx03.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.3.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJFHmmh012663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:17:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mh073 (mh073.ub.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.65.73]) by mx03.uni-tuebingen.de (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hAJFHkHv027055 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:17:47 +0100 From: "Ulrike Mehringer" Organization: UB Tuebingen To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:17:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] German book on medieval dress and textiles Message-ID: <3FBB97A8.3519.1D22AB5@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a, DE v4.02 R1) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir Milter 1.0.4; AVE 6.22.0.1; VDF 6.22.0.41 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin, I'll be able to have a look at it in a few days. I'll tell you then. > Mehthild Muller, Die Kleidung nach Quellen des fruhen Mittelalters. Ulrike _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 10:33:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJFX52q011197 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:33:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJEhmTQ028590; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:43:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJEhj7B019110; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:43:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJEhg7B019001 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:43:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m51.in-tch.com [216.166.191.51]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAJEMPc29891 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:22:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FBB8234.9FD95FCD@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:46:12 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion on the Ohio Frontier: 1790-1840 References: <004701c3ac7d$36051ca0$98f74a43@4gxif> <4.3.0.20031118230808.00d21100@pop.vaxxine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oooh, sweet! What a nice website! I'm drooling on that closed gown made of brown, printed cotton.... Thanks for sharing, sue David Webb wrote: > > Sound like an interesting exhibit at Kent State University, Ohio! Finishes > in Feb. 2004. > > http://dept.kent.edu/museum/exhibit/ohio/main.htm > > Sheridan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 10:35:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJFZb2q011203 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:35:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJFYmTQ003871; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:34:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJFYlmg027704; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:34:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12004.mail.yahoo.com (web12004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAJFYimg027646 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:34:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031119153439.21551.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.238] by web12004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:34:39 PST Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:34:39 -0800 (PST) From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] greatcoat questions - Bjarne maybe? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all, Some of you over on frazzeledfrau have seen some of this so please bear with me. I want to make a coachman's coat for my husband for Christmas with the layers of capes over the shoulders. I have several options on patterns. There are some interesting things in Waugh's the Cut of Men's Clothes and Rocking Horse Farm has a pattern with three layers of capes. This is supposed to be a surprise so I can't measure him but he has an old Belgian military trench coat that fits him well so I could use that to check measurements against as I go. I have some lovely coating weight wool for the outside and have some linen coming that looks like a good lining. (Thanks frazzledfrau group.) If I get some canvas to use in place of interfacing where would I put the canvas? I assume that I need to interline the collar and the front edges of the coat. Do I need to interline or interface the capes (and I know the difference betweent the two terms)? I'm rather assuming that I will make the outer fabric of wool and fully line the body and sleeves of the coat with the linen. I intend to interface the collar and the opening edges of the coat fronts with an unsized canvas so they stay crisp. I'm contemplating interlining the upper body of the coat down to the waist or hips with some muslin or something (suggestions?) for warmth and to help support the buttons, buttonholes and the weight of the capes around the neckline. Have I forgotten anything? Does anyone forsee any problems or mistakes with my approach? I intend to dryclean this garment. What do I need to do to pre-treat all the different fabrics so they can be drycleaned? How do I make period buttonholes for a greatcoat? I have some prewashed fustian that I can use for the interfacing or the interlining if that would be more period than than a cotton muslin. I think what I'm doing is more late 1700s than 1800s. I've got an old history book picture of George Washington stuck in my head as the inspiration for this but they wouldn't let us keep our books in grade school so I can't site sources but I know what I'm aiming for anyway. Any help greatly appreciated as I quit costuming and took up quilting for years. Coming back into historic clothing I find alot has changed and am really enjoying the sewing again even if I don't have time to play in a group yet. (They won't be teen-agers forever. Eventually they will all go away to college and I will have to find something to do with all the empty space and time :) ) Cassandra __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 11:04:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJG4f2q011302 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:04:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJG40TQ007226; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:04:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJG3ucm024243; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:03:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJG3ncm024039 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EBC7425D0 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:09:48 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FBB956F.8090902@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:08:15 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] square cap X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of Tudor clothing, does anyone know of a pattern or construction source for a square cap? I have this urge to make one. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 12:14:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJHEH2q011547 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:14:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJHCxTQ015562; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:12:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJHCsr8003837; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:12:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJHCmr8003698 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:12:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id KAA11867 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:47:55 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fashion on the Ohio Frontier: 1790-1840 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:47:55 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <3FBB8234.9FD95FCD@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And there is an exibition catalog available through the museum's giftshop for $29.95 + 5.00 shipping. 164 pages. Looks like a nice Christmas/Kwanza/Hannaka/Yule/New Year's/Whatever gift to give yourself or have someone give you. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 14:25:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJJPx2q012026 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:25:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJJP2TQ001274; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJJOwqU023609; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:24:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJJOtqU023557 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:24:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.69.215]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031119192451.BVLU23529.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:24:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c3aed2$a0ec1ee0$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:22:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [h-cost] 1930's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone here have any online photo resources for the mid 30's to the mid 1940's? This is outside of my usual area of study, and I don't quite know where to start. :-) Thanks in advance, Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 14:39:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJJdr2q012071 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:39:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJJd4TQ003040; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:39:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJJd2jE008033; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav56.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJJcwjE007894 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:38:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:37:33 -0800 Received: from 64.175.108.69 by bay4-dav56.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:37:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [64.175.108.69] X-Originating-Email: [ysandra8@msn.com] From: "ysandra sliverneedle" To: References: <200311191901.hAJJ0pqW028552@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:37:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:37:31 -0800 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Nov 2003 19:37:33.0057 (UTC) FILETIME=[93AFAF10:01C3AED4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] lace from Nuw Modelbuch books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hAJJdr2q012071 Status: RO Does anyone have a source to buy this 3 volume pattern book from the late 1500s? This book was mentioned several days ago and I have been looking for it all summer. Someone mentioned it being reprinted by Unicorn books, but I have not been able to find that source. I would really like to have it as I am making laces from the late 1500s and very early 1600s for my SCA Elizabethan court dresses. Any leads on where to find this book would be greatly appreciated. Many Thanks Ysandra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 15:58:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJKwZ2q012456 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:58:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJKvATc012682; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:57:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJKHUfE019576; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:17:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJKGTfE018474 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:16:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AMYkP-000FZd-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:16:21 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:14:53 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II, was Costuming in movies rant References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I didn't watch it through, and it's the kind of period where I'd be fooled by any half-decent costumes. But I just came in at the point where Charles and Buckingham were romping with two (ahem) "ladies", and she was wearing silk French knickers! I thought, well, I suppose she is a whore, but a bit early even for that, surely? Jean Kate M Bunting wrote >I watched this last night, having recorded it on Sunday. I thought the >costumes were pretty good, particularly the men's. The MPs reminded me >of some of Rembrandt's group portraits. Charles and Buckingham had new >suits with petticoat breeches after the Restoration, and Charles wore a >beautiful lace collar. >The writer admitted that he had taken some liberties with details of >historical fact. The oddest thing was that Charles was seen witnessing >his father's execution (a dream sequence?) and that the Worcester >campaign was totally ignored. On the whole, I enjoyed it. >Oh, and Rufus Sewell's eyes were hazel. > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 16:32:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJLWi2q012922 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:32:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJLVjTQ016470; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:31:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJLVhPc006825; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:31:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJLVePc006780 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:31:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AMZvH-0000vt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:31:39 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:31:57 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01c3aee4$8fccb540$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Cloak/Cape hood shapes.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hAJLWi2q012922 Status: RO This is a second post since my first didn't seem to reach the list. Anyone have a handle on how hood shapes developed over the years? I am interested in anything from anywhere (Europe, but influences are okay) from around 1400-1600. The only ones that stand out in my mind are the duck billed (almost look like ball caps) Flemish ones, but that is because I have been 'doing' Breughel garb all summer. I think I remember a pointed one somewhere with a tassle on the end.but that may have been a wizard dream. I am sure I have not seen the Kinsale Cloak hood shape any earlier than the late 1800s..anyone know of it sooner? I love the hood, but I am afraid it screams Victorian. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 16:33:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJLXb2q012930 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:33:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJLWpTQ016562; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:32:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJLWoPc007813; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:32:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f59.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJLWmPc007721 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:32:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:32:43 -0800 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:32:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:32:42 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Nov 2003 21:32:43.0090 (UTC) FILETIME=[AA630B20:01C3AEE4] Subject: [h-cost] Re: greatcoat questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >This is supposed to be a surprise so I can't measure >him but he has an old Belgian military trench coat >that fits him well so I could use that to check >measurements against as I go. One suggestion for this problem is easily solved if he is a heavy sleeper. My husband has been measured for jewelery and garments while he is sound asleep!!! He never had any idea at all. Your greatcoat idea sounds wonderful. I don't have other advise to give, but would love to hear about your progress. :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Say “goodbye” to busy signals and slow downloads with a high-speed Internet connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 16:38:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJLc62q012950 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:38:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJLbKTQ017024; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:37:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJLbIPc012388; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:37:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJLbCPc012138 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:37:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4713425D0 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:43:10 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FBBE386.9060707@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:41:26 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace from Nuw Modelbuch books References: <200311191901.hAJJ0pqW028552@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ysandra sliverneedle wrote: > Does anyone have a source to buy this 3 volume pattern book from the late 1500s? It's been out of print for almost two years now. Here's the full bibliographic info ,though, it might help you locate a library copy. The New Model Book republished as Fascinating Bobbin Lace, Patterns from the first book of bobbin lace to be printed. by Clair Burchard. Stuttgart: Haupy, 1986. ISBN 3-258-03610-1 Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 17:43:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJMhS2q013211 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:43:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJMgdTQ023457; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:42:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJMgYox016241; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:42:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAJMgUox016110 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:42:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAJMrNjp026783 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:53:24 -0800 Message-ID: <3FBBF0E7.1070602@misc.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:38:31 -0800 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1930's References: <000d01c3aed2$a0ec1ee0$cb6afea9@shooie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO costumer's manifesto has a large archive: http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/1930links.htm some extant ladies' garments: http://cti.itc.virginia.edu/~dress/collection.html#1920s and then, Googling "1930's photos" yielded an impressive variety of photos. HOpe this helps, and good luck, THeresa Eacker Sheridan & Shane wrote: > Does anyone here have any online photo resources for the mid 30's to the mid > 1940's? > > This is outside of my usual area of study, and I don't quite know where to > start. :-) > > Thanks in advance, > > Sheridan > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 19:36:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAK0a22q013534 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:36:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK0ZHTQ005275; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:35:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK0Z56J024601; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (sea1-f54.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK0Z16J024484 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:34:55 -0800 Received: from 162.84.116.218 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:34:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [162.84.116.218] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] costume books for sale Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:34:55 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Nov 2003 00:34:55.0884 (UTC) FILETIME=[1ED704C0:01C3AEFE] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have the following books for sale: The CUlture of Clothing: Dress & Fashion in the Ancien Regime, Daniel Roche The Mode in Costume. R. Turner Wilcox Historic Costume for the Stage, Lucy Barton Folk Costume of Europe Coloring Book, Susan Johnston Racinet's Full-Color Pictorial History of Western Costume, Auguste Racinet What People Wore, Douglas Gorsline Please contact me privately if you are interested. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. _________________________________________________________________ Groove on the latest from the hot new rock groups! Get downloads, videos, and more here. http://special.msn.com/entertainment/wiredformusic.armx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 21:21:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAK2LM2q013810 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:21:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK2KgTQ013870; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:20:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK2Kbov000840; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:20:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK2KYow000819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:20:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAK2LMUZ003003 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:21:22 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAK2LMXd003001 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:21:22 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] square cap Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:21:22 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FBB956F.8090902@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3FBB956F.8090902@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311192121.22244.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 19 November 2003 11:08 am, Dawn wrote: > Speaking of Tudor clothing, does anyone know of a pattern or > construction source for a square cap? I have this urge to make one. Maybe. That depends on what you mean by a "square cap". If you mean a cap of this type (which I think is called a "French bonnet"): http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Henry1.jpg Queta's Closet sells a pattern for it. You can reach them at: Queta's Closet 5703 19th Ave. South, Gulfport, FL 33707 (813) 381-1238 Patterns for shoes, accessories, and other finishing touches for medieval and renaissance costume. On the other hand, if you mean something more like this: http://www.artofeurope.com/holbein/hol2.htm I can't help you. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 22:08:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAK38F2q013950 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:08:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK37KTQ016821; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:07:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK37FXl027592; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:07:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav51.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK37CXl027511 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:07:07 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav51.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:07:07 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031119153439.21551.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] greatcoat questions - Bjarne maybe? Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:06:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Nov 2003 03:07:07.0566 (UTC) FILETIME=[61BF1CE0:01C3AF13] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I intend to dryclean this garment. What do I need to > do to pre-treat all the different fabrics so they can > be drycleaned? In theory, you shouldn't have to do anything. However, if you want to make sure it's totally safe, I think your only option would be to have the fabric dry cleaned before you make the garment. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 22:25:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAK3Pa2q014017 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:25:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK3P2TQ018069; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK3OwXl007332; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:24:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21408.mail.yahoo.com (web21408.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAK3OsXl007291 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:24:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031120032454.73284.qmail@web21408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.211.65.97] by web21408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:24:54 PST Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:24:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200311192121.22244.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] LA/Burbank-based cry for help (for a visitor who just lost their space) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just found out that my planned host for part of my stay in LA will *not* be able to host me. He can pick me up and take me to the airport, but due to family issues and a house problem, will not be able to put me up as had been planned. I've got non-refundable tickets for United Airlines and Loscon, and had planned to go to the garment district Monday to shop for the rest of my wedding fabrics. It was a straight shot on the transit from his house originally. I plan on asking around at the con with some of the fen there to see if I can get help, but am a bit nervous now for what had been a solid plan. Anxious, Angharad or Jonnalyhn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 19 23:42:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAK4gg2q014250 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:42:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK4fsTQ023777; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:41:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK4fjaM025180; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:41:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK4ffaM025085 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:41:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.42 ([204.127.135.42]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <20031120044135111000uv87e>; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:41:35 +0000 Received: from [12.72.245.198] by 204.127.135.42; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:41:34 +0000 From: mmcnealy@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help Finding a Portrait Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:41:34 +0000 Message-Id: <112020030441.2478.5f2b@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: bW1jbmVhbHlAYXR0Lm5ldA== X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I went web searching and haven't found it yet, but I don't think that its Catherine Medici. Due to bone structure, I think its much more likely that it is this lady, ELISABETH D'AUTRICHE. http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/joconde/0002/m503604_81ee1188_p.jpg Also, Catherine wore widow's black and in very French styles for the last 20 some odd years of her life, not the fashionable Spanish influenced styles that the lady you are looking for is wearing. Here is Catherine as a young woman http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/joconde/0016/m502004_80ee463_p.jpg And here she is as a widow in 1580 http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/joconde/0002/m503604_93de1904_p.jpg Hope that helps, Marion > I figured this is the best bunch to ask for help on something like this > :). > > I am trying to find a color version of the portrait identified as > Catherine de Medici on the bottom of this page: > http://www.history-magazine.com/1580stimeline.html > > I have only been able to find a b&W version on this webpage and in a > book on lace, which attributes it to one of the Clouets, but no > information on what collection it is in. I still have a few costume > books at home to check through but so far, no luck. > > If anyone knows of another book this could be found in, preferably in > color, I would really appreciate the information. Then ILL here I > come! > > Thanks, > Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 00:04:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAK54X2q014331 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:04:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK53qTQ025507; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:03:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK53nWK008544; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:03:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK53kWK008516 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:03:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-163-195-22.mn.rr.com [24.163.195.22])hAK53ihM002793 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:03:44 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20031119225538.03610eb0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:57:18 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace from Nuw Modelbuch books In-Reply-To: References: <200311191901.hAJJ0pqW028552@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I got my copy about 5 or 6 years ago, it was out of print in North America but still available in book shops in Germany. My suggestion would be do an online search of German bookstores or try and find someone in Germany who is willing to pick up a copy for you if they can find it. Good luck, it is a great source. Cheers, Danielle At 11:37 AM 11/19/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone have a source to buy this 3 volume pattern book from the late >1500s? This book was mentioned several days ago and I have been looking >for it all summer. Someone mentioned it being reprinted by Unicorn books, >but I have not been able to find that source. I would really like to have >it as I am making laces from the late 1500s and very early 1600s for my >SCA Elizabethan court dresses. Any leads on where to find this book would >be greatly appreciated. >Many Thanks >Ysandra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 03:52:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAK8qX2q008591 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:52:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK8prTQ007241; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 01:51:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK8pph6001570; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 01:51:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK8pmh6001549 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 01:51:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hAK8rNA21230.; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:53:23 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:51:46 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:51:12 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II, was Costuming in movies rant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Didn't notice that detail! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk 11/19/03 8:14 PM >>> I didn't watch it through, and it's the kind of period where I'd be fooled by any half-decent costumes. But I just came in at the point where Charles and Buckingham were romping with two (ahem) "ladies", and she was wearing silk French knickers! I thought, well, I suppose she is a whore, but a bit early even for that, surely? Jean ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 08:50:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKDoC2q021540 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:50:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKDnLTQ023190; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:49:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKDnIIl018035; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:49:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKDnGIl017956 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:49:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m156.in-tch.com [216.166.191.156]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAKDRwc06850 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:27:58 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FBCC6F2.4AE2772B@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:51:46 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace from Nuw Modelbuch books References: <200311191901.hAJJ0pqW028552@net.indra.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20031119225538.03610eb0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got my copy within the last couple of years from a US Company (NY, I think). Van Scriver Bobbin Lace. They've got a website, although I don't have it bookmarked any more, and when I tried to "search" for it for you, my computer decided to be cranky, and refused to search. But you could do it ! It *was* out of print when I got it, and I don't know that they had too many copies, but they're someone else to think of as a possibility, besides all the usual suspects like Borders and Abebooks and such. They sell lots of cool bobbin lace supplies, too. --sue Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > > When I got my copy about 5 or 6 years ago, it was out of print in North > America but still available in book shops in Germany. My suggestion would > be do an online search of German bookstores or try and find someone in > Germany who is willing to pick up a copy for you if they can find it. Good > luck, it is a great source. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > At 11:37 AM 11/19/2003 -0800, you wrote: > >Does anyone have a source to buy this 3 volume pattern book from the late > >1500s? This book was mentioned several days ago and I have been looking > >for it all summer. Someone mentioned it being reprinted by Unicorn books, > >but I have not been able to find that source. I would really like to have > >it as I am making laces from the late 1500s and very early 1600s for my > >SCA Elizabethan court dresses. Any leads on where to find this book would > >be greatly appreciated. > >Many Thanks > >Ysandra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 11:51:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKGpp2q022356 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:51:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKGodTQ010497; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:50:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKGoaJO004943; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:50:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKGoWJO004838 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 417679 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:50:26 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:50:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] greatcoat questions - Bjarne maybe? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dry cleaned and PRESSED if you plan to iron the garment or have it pressed one you've had it cleaned. With forethought, I had some expensive, imported wool fabric dry cleaned before I planned to use it a couple of years ago, then didn't make the garment after all. I pulled it out of the box a year later to use, but it was wrinkled so I pressed it - actually didn't touch iron to wool but steamed the wrinkles out. Imagine my surprise when I could watch the fabric shrink up as the steam hit it. I now believe it's the steam, not the dry cleaning that shrinks the fabric. LynnD On 11/19/03 7:06 PM, "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" wrote: >> I intend to dryclean this garment. What do I need to >> do to pre-treat all the different fabrics so they can >> be drycleaned? > > In theory, you shouldn't have to do anything. However, if you want to make > sure it's totally safe, I think your only option would be to have the fabric > dry cleaned before you make the garment. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 12:28:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKHS02q022468 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:28:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHR2TQ014590; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHQlu9012996; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:26:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts8.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.166]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHQau9012728 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:26:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from Elizabeth ([65.93.205.102]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031120172630.UGTA1973.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@Elizabeth> for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:26:30 -0500 From: "Alabaster" To: Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:26:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C3AF61.82F5EF30" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C3AF61.82F5EF30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello I've been having a problem coming up with a title that could accurately describe what I do. I know that many of you work in the costume/dressmaking/research fields & was wondering if any of you might have some ideas for a really succinct yet intriguing title that I could use on my business cards as well as when I am asked the dreaded question "What do you do?" As everyone knows, peoples' attention spans are incredibly short, ESPECIALLY when you are telling them about yourself !! These are the areas that I currently work in &/or may want to be able to expand into in the future: researching costume, textiles& colours then drafting patterns, making accurate historic costumes, undergarments & accessories for mid 18th century to early 20 century (mainly focusing on Europe & North America) researching varied aspects of 18th & 19th century European culture & art; teaching or leading workshops about any of these subjects Basically I like to learn, then do, then teach (or exhibit). This seems all interconnected to me but it is almost impossible to wrap it all up into a neat little "catch phrase" that people actually understand. I would really appreciate any ideas that you may have. The title doesn't need to be something that is currently in use but it also can't be so obscure that I end up trying to explain myself for 5 minutes either ! Thanks very much Elizabeth ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C3AF61.82F5EF30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C3AF61.82F5EF30-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 12:41:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKHf82q022565 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:41:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHe1TQ016369; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHdku9026196; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:39:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHdYu9025960 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:39:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hAKHdVgP013577 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:39:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031120123819.00b5d090@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:39:36 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catchy enough? Experimental Archeologist, specialist in 18th-19th century social textiles. Mari >Hello > >I've been having a problem coming up with a title that could accurately >describe what I do. I know that many of you work in the >costume/dressmaking/research fields & was wondering if any of you might have >some ideas for a really succinct yet intriguing title that I could use on my >business cards as well as when I am asked the dreaded question "What do you >do?" As everyone knows, peoples' attention spans are incredibly short, >ESPECIALLY when you are telling them about yourself !! > >These are the areas that I currently work in &/or may want to be able to >expand into in the future: >researching costume, textiles& colours then drafting patterns, making >accurate historic costumes, undergarments & accessories for mid 18th century >to early 20 century (mainly focusing on Europe & North America) >researching varied aspects of 18th & 19th century European culture & art; >teaching or leading workshops about any of these subjects > >Basically I like to learn, then do, then teach (or exhibit). This seems all >interconnected to me but it is almost impossible to wrap it all up into a >neat little "catch phrase" that people actually understand. > >I would really appreciate any ideas that you may have. The title doesn't >need to be something that is currently in use but it also can't be so >obscure that I end up trying to explain myself for 5 minutes either ! > > >Thanks very much > >Elizabeth >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 12:42:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKHgD2q022570 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:42:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHepTQ016540; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:40:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHeou9027430; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:40:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [199.170.68.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHe4u9026530 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:40:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hAKHjs5x008556; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:45:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:45:45 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Elizabeth, "Costumologist" maybe? I searched for the word on google and came up with few hits, though none really explains what this word really means...I'll think some more and see if I can't think of something better... Kate ceu@shaysnet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 12:44:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKHig2q022583 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:44:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHi1TQ016932; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHhxu9000984; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [199.170.68.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHhuu9000939 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:43:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hAKHnptg009013; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:49:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:49:50 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031120123819.00b5d090@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oo! That's *much* better... too much coffee for me today... Kate On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, M Stewart wrote: > Catchy enough? > > Experimental Archeologist, specialist in 18th-19th century social textiles. > > Mari > > >Hello > > > >I've been having a problem coming up with a title that could accurately > >describe what I do. I know that many of you work in the > >costume/dressmaking/research fields & was wondering if any of you might have > >some ideas for a really succinct yet intriguing title that I could use on my > >business cards as well as when I am asked the dreaded question "What do you > >do?" As everyone knows, peoples' attention spans are incredibly short, > >ESPECIALLY when you are telling them about yourself !! > > > >These are the areas that I currently work in &/or may want to be able to > >expand into in the future: > >researching costume, textiles& colours then drafting patterns, making > >accurate historic costumes, undergarments & accessories for mid 18th century > >to early 20 century (mainly focusing on Europe & North America) > >researching varied aspects of 18th & 19th century European culture & art; > >teaching or leading workshops about any of these subjects > > > >Basically I like to learn, then do, then teach (or exhibit). This seems all > >interconnected to me but it is almost impossible to wrap it all up into a > >neat little "catch phrase" that people actually understand. > > > >I would really appreciate any ideas that you may have. The title doesn't > >need to be something that is currently in use but it also can't be so > >obscure that I end up trying to explain myself for 5 minutes either ! > > > > > >Thanks very much > > > >Elizabeth > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 12:47:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKHli2q022596 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:47:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHkxTQ017261; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:46:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHktu9003922; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:46:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHkpu9003788 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:46:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED39425D0 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:52:54 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FBCFF13.4050206@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:51:15 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] square cap References: <3FBB956F.8090902@reddawn.net> <200311192121.22244.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200311192121.22244.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Wednesday 19 November 2003 11:08 am, Dawn wrote: > >>Speaking of Tudor clothing, does anyone know of a pattern or >>construction source for a square cap? I have this urge to make one. > > > > Maybe. That depends on what you mean by a "square cap". Thanks for the reference. I'm not sure what I'm looking for now. I've seen two comments about a 'tudor square cap' on websites that did not have illustrations of what that was, and I got a picture in my head of a close fitting peaked cap with four seams or folds that made it a square, something like what is worn by Henry VII on his tomb. http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/t/torrigi/henry_7a.jpg Maybe this is something completely different. I'm still looking for other pictures of this style of hat. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 12:59:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKHxh2q022665 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:59:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHwsTQ018458; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:58:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHwoOA014368; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:58:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKHwhOA014224 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:58:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id hAKHwgKR017988 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:58:42 -0500 Message-Id: <200311201758.hAKHwgKR017988@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:54:20 -0000 To: Historical Costume From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 Subject: [h-cost] Shrinkage X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A drycleaner should be able to steam shrink fabric. They tend to have a flatbed presser that will steam, and should give a more even result than an iron. I've also heard of the London shrink method, recommended to students who can't afford the drycleaner. You mist the fabric with water, wrap it up in muslin or a sheet, and let it dry naturally. Was there more to it? Does nayone remember this differently? -Carol Lynn Downward said: > Dry cleaned and PRESSED if you plan to iron the garment or have it pressed > one you've had it cleaned. > > With forethought, I had some expensive, imported wool fabric dry cleaned > before I planned to use it a couple of years ago, then didn't make the > garment after all. I pulled it out of the box a year later to use, but it > was wrinkled so I pressed it - actually didn't touch iron to wool but > steamed the wrinkles out. Imagine my surprise when I could watch the fabric > shrink up as the steam hit it. > > I now believe it's the steam, not the dry cleaning that shrinks the fabric. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 13:01:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKI1E2q022676 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:01:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKI0MTQ018632; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:00:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKI0LOA015818; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:00:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKI0HOB015757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:00:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKI0Hdf015752 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:00:17 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:00:17 -0700 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession Message-ID: <20031120180017.GA14813@net.indra.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd say 'Historical Costumer and Costume Lecturer'. ...eliz -- "How old would you be if you didn't know how old you were?" -Satchel Page _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 13:07:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKI7b2q022712 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:07:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKI6vTQ019403; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:06:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKI6uOA022533; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:06:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKI6qOA022478 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:06:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hAKI6qgP007621 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:06:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031120125246.01a722b8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:06:56 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] square cap - one method In-Reply-To: <3FBCFF13.4050206@reddawn.net> References: <200311192121.22244.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FBB956F.8090902@reddawn.net> <200311192121.22244.cathy@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey there... AH... now i know what you are referring to. OK... I've experimented with these caps. Firstly, the ones I have made were knitted and then fulled. The funky shaping is partly a function of both processes. In the knitting I started at the top, knitted in the round to create a flat round that covered the top of my head and the edges extended over the top of my head, the front edge just hitting me on the top of the eyebrows. Then I continued to knit in the round but without adding any stitches, I actually decreased evenly by a few just to get it to draw in closely to the head. I knitted just far enough to elongate the edge of the cap to create that standing close fitting brow portion. Then, you bind off about 1/4 to 1/3 of the stitches across the front. and then continue to knit the remaining stitches to lengthen the edges and back of the cap. This creates the portion that you fold up. You can drop some stitches across the back to help in keeping the back portion close to the head when it is down, as you can see in the portrait of Sir Thomas Moore. (?) Now... on to the fulling. Hot water, soap, scrubbing board, cold water. Repeat. As the knitting draws together, you can full the edges more tightly, that gives you the kind of poof to the top that you can shape as the cap dries. Then you can dry the fulled cap over a frame to get really raised ridges, or you can let it dry on it's own, and you'll get softer ridges. At least that's what happened to mine. ; > It was kind of an accident the first time I made one. Bridgette >Thanks for the reference. I'm not sure what I'm looking for now. I've seen >two comments about a 'tudor square cap' on websites that did not have >illustrations of what that was, and I got a picture in my head of a close >fitting peaked cap with four seams or folds that made it a square, >something like what is worn by Henry VII on his tomb. > >http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/t/torrigi/henry_7a.jpg > >Maybe this is something completely different. I'm still looking for other >pictures of this style of hat. Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 13:49:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKInj2q023073 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:49:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKImpTQ023439; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:48:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKImNm6012581; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:48:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKIm7m6012246 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:48:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.123.100] [4.42.16.19] by webmail.anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AB85286013C; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:44:21 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:11:10 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Aesthetic dress, was books and movies etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >On Sat, 15 Nov 2003, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > >> Sue Clemenger wrote: >> > Well, locally, we have a young lady (age 13 or so) completely enamored >> > of the clothing Arwen wears. Her folks are looking for ideas on what >> > medieval clothing would most closely come to the costumes. >> >> Robin's lecture about the Victorians reminded me how much fun > > "aesthetic dress" is. Arwen's costumes remind me of this style. Geez, you're right! Actually, I think what a lot of people think of as "medieval" is exactly that turn of the century William Morris reinterpretation of medieval. It's certainly a "more comfortable, modern" way for us to enjoy medieval styles, and be doubly historic to boot! Rima completely buried getting ready for art show this weekend _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 13:53:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKIrA2q023086 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:53:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKIqMTQ023857; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:52:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKIqFm6016601; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:52:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKImMm6012557 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:48:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.123.100] [4.42.16.19] by webmail.anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AB8A286013C; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:44:26 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200311201758.hAKHwgKR017988@jefferson.patriot.net> References: <200311201758.hAKHwgKR017988@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:46:05 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shrinkage Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > A drycleaner should be able to steam shrink fabric. They tend to have a >flatbed presser that will steam, and should give a more even result than an >iron. > > I've also heard of the London shrink method, recommended to students who >can't afford the drycleaner. You mist the fabric with water, wrap it up in >muslin or a sheet, and let it dry naturally. > > Was there more to it? Does nayone remember this differently? > > -Carol > One of the things I learned as a weaver that really empowered me with fabric was this: ALL FABRIC HAS BEEN WASHED. It's already been washed before you get it. Go ahead and wash your wool - just do it in WARM, not hot water, and do NOT agitate (NOT NOT NOT), or it will felt. Spin it dry in your washer, hang it or lay it flat to dry. This should shrink it enough so that steaming later on won't dramatically change it's shape. I just washed a piece I took off my loom - cashmere & merino blend. Came out great! Rima frantically knitting neckband, cuffs, to go on this woven piece... ;-D _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 13:54:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKIsQ2q023095 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:54:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKIpqTQ023789; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:51:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKIpkm6016178; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:51:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.anet.net (mail.pixcamera.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKImJm6012464 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:48:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.123.100] [4.42.16.19] by webmail.anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AB86286013C; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:44:22 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20031114104135.01c34b08@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:24:57 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] florence or venice 1520-1560 period fabric Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have seen some silk called >dupioni that didn't have any slubs at all - maybe it was just mislabeled - >that might be a solution for you if you still want dupioni. According to my weaving books, dupioni has to do with 'doubling' the weft threads. Often they're slubby, but it's not the slubs that make it dupioni. We just experience it that way these days.... ;-D >And if you go with silk, remember to flatline it with something that >breathes (linen is great imo, because it drapes well, is heavy and breathes >well) to get it to hang well, because silk is usually very light. Linen is probably my fave fiber. It works beautifully for just about everything. I made a boiled wool tunic jacket, lined it in linen, and it really improves how it hangs, not to mention keeping itchy wool away from me. ;-D Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 13:55:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKItB2q023102 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:55:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKIotTQ023686; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:50:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKIogm6015137; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:50:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.anet.net (webmail.anet.net [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKImDm6012359 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:48:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.123.100] [4.42.16.19] by webmail.anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AB8B286013C; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:44:27 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:47:21 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Basically I like to learn, then do, then teach (or exhibit). This seems all >interconnected to me but it is almost impossible to wrap it all up into a >neat little "catch phrase" that people actually understand. > >I would really appreciate any ideas that you may have. The title doesn't >need to be something that is currently in use but it also can't be so >obscure that I end up trying to explain myself for 5 minutes either ! > >Thanks very much > >Elizabeth Historic Textile Artist? Rima *sigh* Just up and joined SCA, heaven help me... so also call me Nicolosa Tessitore _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 14:07:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKJ772q023173 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:07:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKJ6ITQ025901; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:06:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKJ6AOt002481; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:06:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.anet.net (mail.artistrymag.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKJ65Ot002381 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:06:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.123.100] [4.42.16.19] by webmail.anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AB88286013C; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:44:24 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20031117201600.25707.qmail@web40106.mail.yahoo.com> <006001c3ad71$24706040$cdc2adcb@michaela> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:36:36 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Subject: Re: [h-cost] dyeing Baroque or Bridal Satin? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Actually it's not. Nylon dyes up very well.. nylon lace, nylon lycra... > >Hmm, maybe I got mixed up again. I don't know much about synthetics, so >maybe I'm confused. I'm assuming y'all know about http://www.dharmatrading.com They are GREAT about answering questions, very knowledgeable. Just give 'em a call and they'll help you out. Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 14:20:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKJKK2q023218 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:20:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKJAbVI026403; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:19:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKIU2OA015752; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKISEOA014149 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:28:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 417999 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:27:26 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:27:25 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shrinkage From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311201758.hAKHwgKR017988@jefferson.patriot.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 11/20/03 9:54 AM, "aquazoo@patriot.net" wrote: > > A drycleaner should be able to steam shrink fabric. They tend to have a > flatbed presser that will steam, and should give a more even result than an > iron. > I agree completely; when you take yardage into the dry cleaners, you need to be certain that they will actually press the fabric, not just dry clean it. > I've also heard of the London shrink method, recommended to students who > can't afford the drycleaner. You mist the fabric with water, wrap it up in > muslin or a sheet, and let it dry naturally. > > Was there more to it? Does nayone remember this differently? > Never heard of this. Do you need to iron it afterwards? Lynn > -Carol > > > Lynn Downward said: >> Dry cleaned and PRESSED if you plan to iron the garment or have it pressed >> one you've had it cleaned. >> >> With forethought, I had some expensive, imported wool fabric dry cleaned >> before I planned to use it a couple of years ago, then didn't make the >> garment after all. I pulled it out of the box a year later to use, but it >> was wrinkled so I pressed it - actually didn't touch iron to wool but >> steamed the wrinkles out. Imagine my surprise when I could watch the fabric >> shrink up as the steam hit it. >> >> I now believe it's the steam, not the dry cleaning that shrinks the fabric. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 16:31:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKLVY2q023630 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:31:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKLUXTQ011545; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:30:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKLUN4L026905; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:30:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14007.mail.yahoo.com (web14007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAKLUI4L026785 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:30:19 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031120213006.12301.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:30:06 GMT Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:30:06 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO clothing and textile historian. --- Alabaster wrote: > Hello > > I've been having a problem coming up with a title > that could accurately > describe what I do. I know that many of you work in > the > costume/dressmaking/research fields & was wondering > if any of you might have > some ideas for a really succinct yet intriguing > title that I could use on my > business cards as well as when I am asked the > dreaded question "What do you > do?" As everyone knows, peoples' attention spans > are incredibly short, > ESPECIALLY when you are telling them about yourself > !! > > These are the areas that I currently work in &/or > may want to be able to > expand into in the future: > researching costume, textiles& colours then drafting > patterns, making > accurate historic costumes, undergarments & > accessories for mid 18th century > to early 20 century (mainly focusing on Europe & > North America) > researching varied aspects of 18th & 19th century > European culture & art; > teaching or leading workshops about any of these > subjects > > Basically I like to learn, then do, then teach (or > exhibit). This seems all > interconnected to me but it is almost impossible to > wrap it all up into a > neat little "catch phrase" that people actually > understand. > > I would really appreciate any ideas that you may > have. The title doesn't > need to be something that is currently in use but it > also can't be so > obscure that I end up trying to explain myself for 5 > minutes either ! > > > Thanks very much > > Elizabeth > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 18:03:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKN3n2q023996 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:03:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKN2pTQ021031; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:02:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKN2jel024472; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:02:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKN2eel024364 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-77.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.77]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAKN2Xk5014538 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:02:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031120145840.04c2e630@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:00:33 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession In-Reply-To: <20031120213006.12301.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >clothing and textile historian. This one is my favorite. It sounds very professional, and not like the maker of cheap Halloween costumes. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 20:19:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAL1J92q024663 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:19:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAL1ILTQ003152; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:18:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAL1HlUs013083; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAL1HcUs012946 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:17:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AMzvV-0002UB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:17:37 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Help Finding a Portrait Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:17:40 -0700 Message-ID: <001e01c3afcd$421b55b0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <112020030441.2478.5f2b@att.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good eye Marion! I thought it looked familiar. Someone recently was discussing another Clouet who folks thought was this same woman. Anyone still have a link? Might be an interesting comparison. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of mmcnealy@att.net Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 9:42 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help Finding a Portrait I went web searching and haven't found it yet, but I don't think that its Catherine Medici. Due to bone structure, I think its much more likely that it is this lady, ELISABETH D'AUTRICHE. http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/joconde/0002/m503604_81ee1188_p.jpg ...................Hope that helps, Marion _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 21:45:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAL2jB2q024913 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:45:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAL2iWTQ009137; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:44:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAL2iR1Z004687; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:44:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40111.mail.yahoo.com (web40111.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAL2hn1Z004183 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:43:50 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031121024344.36896.qmail@web40111.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.11.119] by web40111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:43:43 PST Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:43:43 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] OMG- I looove to dye! ;-) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you !!!! Everyone that helped with my dying issue I had some horrid glod /burgundy brocade that looked like cheap hotel curtains. I broke down with all the dye info on the h-costuming list and voila! I have a beautiful deep wine background with dove grey brocade. Thankyou Thank you Thank you (again) Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 20 22:32:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAL3Vx2q025070 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:32:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAL3VHTQ012319; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:31:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAL3VF40029687; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:31:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAL3VC41029665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:31:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAL3W4UZ005988 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:32:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAL3W3Mg005986 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:32:03 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] square cap Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:32:03 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FBB956F.8090902@reddawn.net> <200311192121.22244.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FBCFF13.4050206@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3FBCFF13.4050206@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311202232.03217.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 20 November 2003 12:51 pm, Dawn wrote: > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > On Wednesday 19 November 2003 11:08 am, Dawn wrote: > >>Speaking of Tudor clothing, does anyone know of a pattern or > >>construction source for a square cap? I have this urge to make one. > > > > Maybe. That depends on what you mean by a "square cap". > > Thanks for the reference. I'm not sure what I'm looking for now. I've > seen two comments about a 'tudor square cap' on websites that did not > have illustrations of what that was, and I got a picture in my head of a > close fitting peaked cap with four seams or folds that made it a square, > something like what is worn by Henry VII on his tomb. > > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/t/torrigi/henry_7a.jpg > This looks different from either picture I sent you. However, I see that you got another response, which I hope is helpful. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 21 01:04:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAL64R2q025420 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:04:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAL63PTQ021219; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:03:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAL63KwA020326; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:03:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20211.mail.yahoo.com (web20211.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAL63GwA020303 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:03:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031121060315.67854.qmail@web20211.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.179] by web20211.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:03:15 EST Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:03:15 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: Costuming , courtesan@yahoogroups.com, italian_persona@yahoogroups.com, ItalRenCostuming , MargosPatterns , RenCostumer , sca-garb@yahoogroups.com, Tailors , h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Revision and Additions to The Realm of Venus X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, over the last couple of days I have made some changes and additions to the Realm that you may be interested in. Firstly, the "A Crowning Glory - Hairstyles and Head Wear" article has been tweaked a tad - changes to text mainly. Secondly, to follow my changes to the Carpaccio Era gallery due to lots of added images, I have made similar changes, and added many new pics to, The Palma Vecchio and Early Titian Era gallery: And finally, I decided that the "Venus' Wardrobe" Index page need a re-vamp, to include some more colour in the form of images. Nothing major, but a tweak nonetheless. :) ===== **************************************** Lady Bella Lucia da Verona *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net *Courtesan Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ ***************************************** http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 21 08:00:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hALD0J2q001771 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:00:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALCxfTQ013822; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:59:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALCxcmD013086; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:59:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALCxamD013032 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:59:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.12d.352eda3e (4230) for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:59:23 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <12d.352eda3e.2cef662b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:59:23 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] OMG- I looove to dye! ;-) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ahhhhh....another satisfied costumer..... Bada-bing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 21 09:27:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hALERY2q002062 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:27:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALEQpTQ019541; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:26:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALEQnef001443; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:26:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALEQlef001383 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:26:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.79.1d1e3a38 (4230) for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:26:38 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <79.1d1e3a38.2cef7a9e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:26:38 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/20/2003 6:03:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@frys.com writes: >clothing and textile historian. This one is my favorite. It sounds very professional, and not like the maker of cheap Halloween costumes. The only trouble with this is, I don't think it adequately conveys that you also MAKE things. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 21 11:40:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hALGeD2q003382 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:40:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALGdPTQ001769; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:39:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALGdITn017061; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hALGdFTn017001 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:39:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-119-194-101.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.119.194.101 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2003 16:39:14 -0000 Message-ID: <023e01c3b04e$00052260$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <79.1d1e3a38.2cef7a9e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:39:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession > In a message dated 11/20/2003 6:03:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, > kayta@frys.com writes: > >clothing and textile historian. > > This one is my favorite. It sounds very professional, and not like the > maker of cheap Halloween costumes. > The only trouble with this is, I don't think it adequately conveys that you > also MAKE things. I agree -- what about "Clothing and Textile Historian, Historic Costume Maker" or some kind of similarly merged title? - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 21 11:59:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hALGx82q003465 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:59:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALGwUTQ003916; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:58:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALGwS0P005368; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:58:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALGwO0P005227 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:58:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 420385 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:58:18 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:58:18 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <023e01c3b04e$00052260$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I like Kendra's title, but I'd say 'Clothing and Textile Historian, Historic Clothing Maker." LynnD On 11/21/03 8:39 AM, "Kendra Van Cleave" wrote: > From: > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession > > >> In a message dated 11/20/2003 6:03:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> kayta@frys.com writes: >>> clothing and textile historian. >> >> This one is my favorite. It sounds very professional, and not like the >> maker of cheap Halloween costumes. > >> The only trouble with this is, I don't think it adequately conveys that > you >> also MAKE things. > > I agree -- what about "Clothing and Textile Historian, Historic Costume > Maker" or some kind of similarly merged title? > > - Kendra > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 21 12:07:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hALH7X2q003520 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:07:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALH6pTQ004828; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:06:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALH6k0P013568; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:06:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALH6h0P013415 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:06:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11D06425CE for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:12:51 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FBE4734.3000701@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:11:16 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession References: <79.1d1e3a38.2cef7a9e@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <79.1d1e3a38.2cef7a9e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/20/2003 6:03:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, > kayta@frys.com writes: > >>clothing and textile historian. > > > This one is my favorite. It sounds very professional, and not like the > maker of cheap Halloween costumes. > The only trouble with this is, I don't think it adequately conveys that you > also MAKE things. Line 1: clothing and textile historian line 2: (specializing in) research and reconstruction Later you can add something about lectures or exhibits to line 2. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 21 12:15:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hALHFH2q003559 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:15:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALHELTQ005571; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:14:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALHEH0P021253; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:14:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALHCQ0Q019187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:12:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hALHBEPX014150 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:11:14 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:11:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FBE47B1.90804@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:13:21 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynn Downward wrote: > I like Kendra's title, but I'd say 'Clothing and Textile Historian, Historic > Clothing Maker." I agree avoiding the word "costume" is important. But a "clothing maker" is a long way of saying seamstress or tailor or craftsperson, and so looks too verbose to my eye. Clothing & Textile Historian & Fabricator ... athough that's getting a little long, even so. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 21 17:22:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hALMMs2q004662 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:22:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALMM9TQ010369; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:22:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALMM4da023916; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:22:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hALMM0da023791 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hALMLjGI002514 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:21:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031121154733.02f55000@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:21:36 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession In-Reply-To: <200311201727.hAKHReuA013903@net.indra.com> References: <200311201727.hAKHReuA013903@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:26:23 -0500, "Alabaster" wrote: >I've been having a problem coming up with a title that could accurately >describe what I do. >researching costume, textiles& colours then drafting patterns, making >accurate historic costumes, undergarments & accessories for mid 18th century >to early 20 century (mainly focusing on Europe & North America) >researching varied aspects of 18th & 19th century European culture & art; >teaching or leading workshops about any of these subjects > >Basically I like to learn, then do, then teach (or exhibit). This seems all >interconnected to me but it is almost impossible to wrap it all up into a >neat little "catch phrase" that people actually understand. How about Historic Clothing Consultant or Historic Clothing Researcher or Historic Clothier and Research Consultant Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 22 00:28:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAM5So2q005732 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:28:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAM5S6TQ017329; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:28:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAM5S3A5029184; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAM5S1A6029161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAM5aROX008026 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:36:27 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT Book Repair Question Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:28:56 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <010801c3acb6$bafbdf00$9bf74a43@4gxif> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you, I think I will take the book repair tape suggestion. Mistress Arlys has suggested a local source for it, so I'm off to buy a roll. Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Helen Pinto > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 6:59 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Fw: [h-cost] OT Book Repair Question > > > Regina- > > So the spine is in good condtion and all the pages are firmly attached > together? And all that essentially happened is that the covers came off? > > If you have no strong objections to the cover, you can re-attach it using > book repair tape. This is a pre-gummed linen tape, 1 or 2 inches > wide. I'd > suggest the 2" tape. Hollander's has it- it's the first item on > this page: > http://www.hollanders.com/supplies-kits/bookbinding/bindingtapes.htm A > really good art store might also stock it. (If you really hate > the covers, > use them as a template to cut something out that you like.) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 22 09:15:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAMEF92q015581 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 09:15:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAMEDeTQ012928; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:13:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAMEDbtk013988; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:13:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAMEDZtk013887 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:13:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.50.255097fd (24895) for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 09:13:25 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <50.255097fd.2cf0c905@aol.com> Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 09:13:25 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help naming a Costuming Profession To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/21/2003 5:25:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, webwarren@earthlink.net writes: Historic Clothier and Research Consultant I like the term, "clothier." Sounds better than "fabricator" to me, but covers the territory of making things. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 22 14:55:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAMJtF2q016500 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 14:55:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAMJsUTQ005329; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:54:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAMJsO8U011068; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:54:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav18.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.170.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAMJsM8U010984 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:54:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:54:14 -0800 Received: from 64.175.108.52 by bay4-dav18.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:54:14 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [64.175.108.52] X-Originating-Email: [ysandra8@msn.com] From: "ysandra sliverneedle" To: References: <200311221900.hAMJ0OrG008547@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:54:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:54:15 -0800 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Nov 2003 19:54:14.0683 (UTC) FILETIME=[67F0EEB0:01C3B132] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Tudor sleeves question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hAMJtF2q016500 Status: RO I am making a Tudor dress and have a question about the sleeve attachment. Are the outer sleeves sew on to the bodice as to be interchangeable? Or were the only interchangeable parts of the sleeves the "false sleeves"? I need to get this dress finished for a madrigal dinner I am attending, but would like to have the ability to change sleeves, but don't know it that was done and am running out of time to sew. Many thanks Ysandra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 22 14:56:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAMJuD2q016506 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 14:56:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAMJtaTQ005409; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:55:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAMJtZrf011773; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:55:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav10.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.170.114]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAMJtXrf011693 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:55:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:55:27 -0800 Received: from 64.175.108.52 by bay4-dav10.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:55:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [64.175.108.52] X-Originating-Email: [ysandra8@msn.com] From: "ysandra sliverneedle" To: References: <200311221900.hAMJ0OrG008547@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:54:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:54:15 -0800 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Nov 2003 19:55:27.0429 (UTC) FILETIME=[934D1750:01C3B132] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Tudor sleeves question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hAMJuD2q016506 Status: RO I am making a Tudor dress and have a question about the sleeve attachment. Are the outer sleeves sew on to the bodice as to be interchangeable? Or were the only interchangeable parts of the sleeves the "false sleeves"? I need to get this dress finished for a madrigal dinner I am attending, but would like to have the ability to change sleeves, but don't know it that was done and am running out of time to sew. Many thanks Ysandra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 22 22:01:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAN31j2q018035 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:01:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAN30mTQ000915; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:00:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAN30hka012717; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:00:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAN30fka012626 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:00:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.14f.26f3221c (2168) for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:00:31 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <14f.26f3221c.2cf17cce@aol.com> Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:00:30 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor sleeves question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would say the sleeves are sewn in because usually changeable sleeves are attached with points or jewels or something like that. And the fabric of the outer sleeve always seems to match that of the gown [though the lining does not....and you see more of that than anything else.....so you could make the turned back cuff changeable, hiding the join under the turn back. But that's a theatrical thing and not, to my knowledge, period.] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 22 23:30:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAN4Us2q018305 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:30:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAN4SeTQ006190; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 21:28:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAN4ScUR028197; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 21:28:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAN4SYUR028181 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 21:28:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip157.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.157]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F35B6A92B for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:28:33 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:28:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor sleeves question Message-ID: <3FBFC6EC.6819.8DB1402@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am making a Tudor dress and have a question about the sleeve > attachment. Are the outer sleeves sew on to the bodice as to be > interchangeable? Or were the only interchangeable parts of the sleeves > the "false sleeves"? I need to get this dress finished for a madrigal > dinner I am attending, but would like to have the ability to change > sleeves, but don't know it that was done and am running out of time to > sew. Many thanks Ysandra Most of the garments found in the inventories seem to already have their fur on (for example "a round gown furred with X" seems to be a standard formula). So, it's doubtful that they would have had them interchangeable. The undersleeves (false sleeves) definitely seem to be interchangeable. Sometimes they matched the foreskirt and sometimes they looked completely different. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 23 15:27:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hANKRC2q000819 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:27:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hANKQUTQ026785; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 13:26:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hANKQQ8L013930; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 13:26:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hANKQK8L013870 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 13:26:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17538 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:51:49 -0600 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:51:49 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Gambesons X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of mine wants to buy a gambeson for sparring (with padded swords) in his swordplay group. He's interested in something like the "dagged gambeson" found at http://www.revivalclothing.com/ (sorry, no direct link to the page, but there's a link in the text just under the main picture). He's seen these and says they are authentic and sturdily made, but the colors are not to his taste. Can anyone here recommend someone who sells something similar? He'd like to know what his alternatives are. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 23 16:23:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hANLNk2q000969 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:23:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hANLMLTQ000669; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:22:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hANLMJL9013424; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hANLMHL9013320 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:22:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20031123212211016003gvkfe>; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 21:22:11 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:21:40 -0500 From: Lauren Walker To: h-costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Velvet Fabric? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, all, I used to shop with a web vendor at url http://www.velvetfabric.com. For a while the web site was down, then it seemed to move to http://www.velvetfabric.ontheweb.com; then for a while I could get the splash page there but none of the product pages were available; today I can't get them at all, again. Anybody here know what's up with these folks? I'm looking to swathe my living room in green cotton velvet curtains (a celebration of having managed to keep the bank from foreclosing on Tara without having to marry anybody else's fiance) and was hoping to am looking for a reasonable discount on 30 to 40 yards of moss or loden or olive green cotton velvet. Okay, it's not costume, it's setting, but I'm still hoping someone can help me find this vendor or a comparable one. Thanks! Lauren lauren.walker@comcast.net -- "One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the Art of Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to train." -- Morihei Ueshiba _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 23 23:58:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAO4wG2q002329 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:58:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAO4utTQ028999; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 21:56:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAO4umCt019589; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 21:56:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav128.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.158]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAO4ukCt019503 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 21:56:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 20:56:40 -0800 Received: from 66.123.52.101 by bay4-dav128.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 04:56:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.123.52.101] X-Originating-Email: [ysandra8@msn.com] From: "ysandra sliverneedle" To: References: <200311231901.hANJ0ps0000439@net.indra.com> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 20:56:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 20:56:41 -0800 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2003 04:56:40.0442 (UTC) FILETIME=[592365A0:01C3B247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Tudor sleeves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hAO4wG2q002329 Status: RO Many thanks for the information on Tudor sleeves. Ysandra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 24 19:34:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAP0YU2q018052 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:34:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAP0XLTQ010984; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:33:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAP0XEI0001176; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:33:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12004.mail.yahoo.com (web12004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAP0X9I0001067 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:33:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031125003307.14739.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.230] by web12004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:33:07 PST Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:33:07 -0800 (PST) From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] steaming wool thank you X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you everyone for the suggestions on the wool and the drycleaning. I think the best path for this is to hang the fabric in the bath while running a hot shower. That should go with the way I will probably air the garment should it get smoke smelling or something during the winter. Our other woolen garments are hung out in the shade on a windy day before being put away for the summer. This seems to get rid of any smells and I've only ever had to spot clean other coats. If this seems like a bad idea please let me know. Cassandra __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 24 21:29:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAP2Tm2q018705 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:29:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAP2T1TQ021577; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAP2SxJU018757; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:28:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav61.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAP2SuJU018696 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:28:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:28:50 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav61.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:28:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031125003307.14739.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] steaming wool thank you Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:28:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2003 02:28:50.0505 (UTC) FILETIME=[DCA82B90:01C3B2FB] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Thank you everyone for the suggestions on the wool and > the drycleaning. I think the best path for this is to > hang the fabric in the bath while running a hot > shower. I'm not sure steam from the shower will be hot enough to guarantee that steam from a steaming press won't affect the fabric later on. Can someone else confirm if I'm right or wrong? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 03:52:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAP8qB2q017752 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 03:52:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAP8pYTQ014388; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:51:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAP8pQj4003909; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:51:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAP8pMj4003854 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:51:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0950.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.183]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED6B19FB43 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:51:17 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FC3194E.60700@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:56:46 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Nurse from the 17th century X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, What would a 17th century nurse from a hospital have looked like? I've been asked to make a dutch nurse costume for reanactment but I don't have a clue. Before I say yes I would love to know what to expect. Hopefully I will get more information after I agreed to do it. The idea is that I wil "work" in a hospital and explain people about 17th century medicine to the publick. Some of them will be doktors and professors them selves.... I will get a big book to learn from because I don't know anything about working in a 17th cent hospital. And that only for 1 weekend... Somehow when writing this I get the fealing I will be completely stupid if I agree to this :-\ . But I will get payed for it....not much... I think it depends a lot on how much work the costume will be. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 08:23:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPDNq2q031977 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:23:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPDNDTQ027396; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:23:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPDNA1V020441; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:23:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPDN71V020401 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:23:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hAPDOlA21329.; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:24:47 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:23:05 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:22:53 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nurse from the 17th century Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Deredere You realise this is a long time before Florence Nightingale and the rise of the professional nurse? A woman working in a 17th century hospital would wear ordinary lower-class clothing. I'd suggest a plain woollen bodice and skirt with a coif, a big apron and probably a neckerchief. Perhaps you have some 16th century things you could adapt? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 08:26:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPDQR2q031993 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:26:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPDPqTQ027521; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:25:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPDPp1V021767; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:25:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPDPn1V021697 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:25:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003112513254401200ijdtve>; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:25:44 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:25:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nurse from the 17th century From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3FC3194E.60700@kabelfoon.nl> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm -- in 18th C, nursing was one of the tasks campfollowers were required to perform in order to earn their half-rations from the military; but otherwise weren't most nurses nuns? Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 08:28:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPDSl2q032023 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:28:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPDS8TQ027691; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:28:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPDS81V022729; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:28:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPDS51V022661 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:28:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0950.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.183]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7199019FBE3 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:27:59 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FC35A28.3050008@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:33:28 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nurse from the 17th century References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually I think I have... http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/CostumeG/16thPDress.html Kate M Bunting wrote: >Hi, Deredere >You realise this is a long time before Florence Nightingale and the >rise of the professional nurse? A woman working in a 17th century >hospital would wear ordinary lower-class clothing. I'd suggest a plain >woollen bodice and skirt with a coif, a big apron and probably a >neckerchief. Perhaps you have some 16th century things you could adapt? > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 10:34:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPFYw2q001293 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:34:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPFYLTQ006377; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPFYJAx013019; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:34:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPFYFAx012927 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:34:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0950.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.183]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3B3619FC51 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:34:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FC377BB.4010008@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:39:39 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] 1845 corset X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I am making Simplicity 7215 and was looking at some corsets and I got the idea that most early 18th century corsets don't have a front closure. But a wooden busk in front. Since I couldn't get a front busk with hooks and eyes for my corset I am quite happy to notice this. So I am making mine with closed front and bust pocket. But what I also noticed that it looks like the wooden busk is sometimes the only boning in the whole corstet. Am I right about that?? Looks a lot more comfertable to me. I will put boning in the back to keep the lacing strait. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 11:11:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPGB72q001632 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:11:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGALTQ009708; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:10:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGAJDI012495; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:10:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGA7DI012310 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:10:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip78.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.78]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F189971BA5 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:10:05 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:10:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nurse from the 17th century Message-ID: <3FC30E63.21706.15AA3C6D@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You realise this is a long time before Florence Nightingale and the > rise of the professional nurse? A woman working in a 17th century > hospital would wear ordinary lower-class clothing. I'd suggest a plain > woollen bodice and skirt with a coif, a big apron and probably a > neckerchief. Perhaps you have some 16th century things you could > adapt? It also depends on if you are in a Protestant or Catholic part of the country. In the Catholic parts, you'd probably be a nun. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 11:29:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPGTQ2q001771 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:29:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGSlTQ011551; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:28:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGShDI028731; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:28:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGSbDI028624 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:28:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.110] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A183EF2500CE; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:21:23 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c3b371$d551f3a0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FC377BB.4010008@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:33:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Are you looking at an eighteenth century garment or nineteenth? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:39 AM Subject: [h-cost] 1845 corset > Hi, > > I am making Simplicity 7215 and was looking at some corsets and I got > the idea that most early 18th century corsets don't have a front closure. > But a wooden busk in front. Since I couldn't get a front busk with hooks > and eyes for my corset I am quite happy to notice this. > So I am making mine with closed front and bust pocket. But what I also > noticed that it looks like the wooden busk is sometimes the only boning > in the whole corstet. > Am I right about that?? Looks a lot more comfertable to me. I will put > boning in the back to keep the lacing strait. > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 11:43:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPGhP2q001879 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:43:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGgLTQ013084; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:42:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGg5SP010857; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:42:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGfPSP010141 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:41:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.110] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A481973F00C0; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:34:09 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01c3b373$9e1cbbc0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nurse from the 17th century Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:46:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In Montreal, there is a hospital that was staffed by the nun's order of the Marguerites. The founder was a woman of means who dedicated her life to serving the needs of the sick. The work was begun in the last third of the 18th Century. The costume she developed for her nurses was grey,of modest cut and fit. The headpiece was white. The building of the 19th C changed focus of the service and patients, always trying to find the people who were left out of the care of medical practitioners of the time. Today it seems to be a retirement home for nuns. They give a very interesting tour of the facility. Also a nice time line costume display using dolls. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lauren Walker" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nurse from the 17th century > > Hmm -- in 18th C, nursing was one of the tasks campfollowers were required > to perform in order to earn their half-rations from the military; but > otherwise weren't most nurses nuns? > > Lauren > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 11:44:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPGiS2q001895 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:44:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGhZTQ013264; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:43:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGhYSP012289; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:43:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGhUSP012152 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:43:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0950.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.183]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C828BBE861 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:43:24 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FC387F5.20000@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:48:53 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset References: <3FC377BB.4010008@kabelfoon.nl> <001301c3b371$d551f3a0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry nineteenth century Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >Are you looking at an eighteenth century garment or nineteenth? >Kathleen >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Deredere Galbraith" >To: "H-Costume" >Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:39 AM >Subject: [h-cost] 1845 corset > > > > >>Hi, >> >>I am making Simplicity 7215 and was looking at some corsets and I got >>the idea that most early 18th century corsets don't have a front closure. >>But a wooden busk in front. Since I couldn't get a front busk with hooks >>and eyes for my corset I am quite happy to notice this. >>So I am making mine with closed front and bust pocket. But what I also >>noticed that it looks like the wooden busk is sometimes the only boning >>in the whole corstet. >>Am I right about that?? Looks a lot more comfertable to me. I will put >>boning in the back to keep the lacing strait. >> >>Greetings, >> Deredere >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 11:52:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPGqi2q001972 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:52:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGq4TQ014189; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGq2SP020198; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPGpsSP020077 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:51:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.214.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.214] helo=4gxif) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AOgPp-0007tX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:51:53 -0500 Message-ID: <014d01c3b374$76402780$d6f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nurse from the 17th century Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:52:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At this time, hospitals were most often attached to religious institutions. Nuns frequently served in that capacity. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 12:20:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPHKS2q002289 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:20:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPHJbTQ016805; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:19:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPHJZWA016188; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:19:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPHJSWA016019 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:19:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1cc.14ca82a8 (4312) for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:19:19 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1cc.14ca82a8.2cf4e916@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:19:18 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You mean 19th century, right? [I make this mistake all the time] Yes, you can have an 1840s corset without a split busk or other CF closure. But I think it's the last decade for this. Does anyone know when that split busk is invented? It would not be inaccurate to put a closure down the front. Some sturdy boning on each side of CF and some medium to large hooks and eyes would do. There are also 1840s corsets with shoulder straps still, but I think it's the last decade for that too. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 12:48:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPHme2q002638 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:48:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPHlvTQ019685; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:47:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPHlrWA013310; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:47:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPHloWA013245 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:47:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id LAA22638 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:47:49 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:47:49 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <014d01c3b374$76402780$d6f74a43@4gxif> Subject: [h-cost] RE: Book-Costume in Detail:1720-1930 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In my paperback copy of "Costume in Detail," a few dresses shown are described as completely or in part as "cut on the cross." Is this British terminology for what we Yanks call cut on the bias(of the fabric)? I was struck by an 1908 dinner dress illustrated in the book that was described as cut completely "on the cross" Although Madeleine Vionnent and others have been given fashion history credit for extensively using the bias cut, this 1908 dinner dress could very well be an early 20th c example of use of the bias cut, judging from how the dress is draped. The dress was owned by the original wearer's daughter, Miss Nora Harker(could be spelled Hawker) and was lent to the author for the bookI have some lavender silk satin and blue-lavender sheer silk(just a yard of each)to adapt this dress to a 16" tall Sydney Chase fashion doll. I am making some changes--no boning for a hard-bodied vinyl doll, using a braid in antique-gold which I'm enhancing with tiny glass beads in lavender-grey/gold and 3mm glass "pearls" in white, pale blue, and pale pink, and 4mm white "etched" glass "pearls" for the silk bobbles(pom-poms) on the original braid. If I can get this dress done in time(I think I've bitten off more than I can chew on the beading of the braid trim alone!), I'd like to enter the doll in a January "Haute Doll Magazine" contest. Also if any of you on the east side of the pond know where this dress is today, I'd appreciate any info Thanks much! Cindy Abel Omaha NE -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Helen Pinto Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:52 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nurse from the 17th century At this time, hospitals were most often attached to religious institutions. Nuns frequently served in that capacity. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 13:55:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPItp2q003498 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:55:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPIsqTQ026024; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:54:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPIsn2V021386; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:54:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPIsi2V021316 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:54:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.67.189]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031125185443.UFQE1080.orval.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:54:43 -0500 Message-ID: <002e01c3b385$66525580$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FC377BB.4010008@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:53:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" > Hi, > > I am making Simplicity 7215 and was looking at some corsets and I got > the idea that most early 18th century corsets don't have a front closure. > But a wooden busk in front. Since I couldn't get a front busk with hooks > and eyes for my corset I am quite happy to notice this. > So I am making mine with closed front and bust pocket. But what I also > noticed that it looks like the wooden busk is sometimes the only boning > in the whole corstet. > Am I right about that?? Looks a lot more comfertable to me. I will put > boning in the back to keep the lacing strait. > > Greetings, > Deredere > > Hi, Have you ever checked this website for corsetry supplies? They might have the parts you would need. http://www.farthingales.on.ca/indexpage.htm They are based here in Canada, so the exchange rate is quite reasonable for most international currency. Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 14:03:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPJ382q003574 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:03:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPJ2LTQ026851; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:02:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPJ2IAt028450; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:02:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPJ0tAt026901 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:00:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0950.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.183]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E26A219FE22 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:00:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FC3A829.8080606@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:06:17 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset References: <3FC377BB.4010008@kabelfoon.nl> <002e01c3b385$66525580$cb6afea9@shooie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know, it is just that I want to spend as less money as I can and have to finish the whole costume as soon as possible. But thanks anyway. Greetings, Deredere Sheridan & Shane wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Deredere Galbraith" > > >>Hi, >> >>I am making Simplicity 7215 and was looking at some corsets and I got >>the idea that most early 18th century corsets don't have a front closure. >>But a wooden busk in front. Since I couldn't get a front busk with hooks >>and eyes for my corset I am quite happy to notice this. >>So I am making mine with closed front and bust pocket. But what I also >>noticed that it looks like the wooden busk is sometimes the only boning >>in the whole corstet. >>Am I right about that?? Looks a lot more comfertable to me. I will put >>boning in the back to keep the lacing strait. >> >>Greetings, >> Deredere >> >> >> >> > >Hi, > >Have you ever checked this website for corsetry supplies? They might have >the parts you would need. > >http://www.farthingales.on.ca/indexpage.htm > >They are based here in Canada, so the exchange rate is quite reasonable for >most international currency. > >Sheridan > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 14:13:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPJDR2q003693 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:13:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPJCoTQ027829; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:12:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPJCiAt008224; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:12:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPJCcAt008036 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.16e.26e0a223 (4568) for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:12:27 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <16e.26e0a223.2cf5039a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:12:26 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Book-Costume in Detail:1720-1930 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/25/2003 12:49:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, brujne@creighton.edu writes: Is this British terminology for what we Yanks call cut on the bias(of the fabric)? Yes, that is correct. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 14:14:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPJE02q003702 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:14:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPJDETQ027862; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:13:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPJDDAt008718; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:13:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPJCpAt008310 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be82.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.130]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CB9F48003D for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:12:49 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000901c3b388$5a0c5e30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:14:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] costume in detail X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Cindy, Yes cut on the cross is the same as bias cut. In Denmark we use the same terminology and say "Skåret på skrå" Cut on the cross. Your doll projekt sounds wonderfull, is there a chance we might get a glimse of it? It is quite interresting with this, in 18th century, i discovered only recently that all the bindings was made of straight grain, it was considered very extravagant to cut material on the cross, perhaps even they never considered the thoaght about how you could cut on the cross. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 14:30:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPJU22q003871 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:30:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPJTLTQ029431; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:29:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPJTDAt024404; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:29:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPJT0At024097 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.a0.d0ba (657) for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:28:48 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:28:47 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1156; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/25/2003 1:55:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, shooie@sprint.ca writes: > http://www.farthingales.on.ca/indexpage.htm > What a great site! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 15:58:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPKwg2q004952 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:58:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPKw1TQ007819; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPKvx9X018637; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:57:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPKvr9X018537 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:57:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id OAA23779 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:57:52 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] costume in detail Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:57:52 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <000901c3b388$5a0c5e30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe, if I ever get it done. I don't own a digital camera--maybe if I bring it to work to show it off!! Seems mostly bias cut/cut on the cross only emerged with fabrics becoming cheaper to manufacture with the Industrial Revolution and even then it took both cheaper fabric manufacture and the advent of the sewing machine to make the bias cut popular in couture wear. For mass manufacture of cheaper clothing, it is still too labor-intensive. Thanks for the info!! Cindy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 1:14 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] costume in detail Dear Cindy, Yes cut on the cross is the same as bias cut. In Denmark we use the same terminology and say "Skåret på skrå" Cut on the cross. Your doll projekt sounds wonderfull, is there a chance we might get a glimse of it? It is quite interresting with this, in 18th century, i discovered only recently that all the bindings was made of straight grain, it was considered very extravagant to cut material on the cross, perhaps even they never considered the thoaght about how you could cut on the cross. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 18:12:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPNCw2q006509 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 18:12:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPNCHTQ020536; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:12:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPNCB0q026818; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:12:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net (razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPNC80q026765 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:12:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-38lc2d9.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.9.169] helo=w7m1l6) by razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AOmLn-00076v-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:12:07 -0800 Message-ID: <007501c3b3a9$7db58980$a90956d1@w7m1l6> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FC30E63.21706.15AA3C6D@localhost> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:10:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ELNK-Trace: 08dba192340bde6e1a6ab3b9b70940f894f5150ab1c16ac0175e62059bacab5204070c73e12a420d08c1d527917409b9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Subject: [h-cost] OT - Message for Penny X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for the OT use of the list, but could Penny Ladnier please contact me. Stephen Bergdahl "I don't suffer from insanity! I fact I rather enjoy it!" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 18:44:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAPNin2q006810 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 18:44:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPNi2TQ023258; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPNi00q024883; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAPNht0q024794 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:43:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from karen (CPE-24-31-232-172.kc.rr.com [24.31.232.172]) hAPNhqoq021775 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:43:52 -0600 (CST) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:43:07 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <3FC35A28.3050008@kabelfoon.nl> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Subject: [h-cost] Pressing vintage 1890s silk dress? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've just purchased a vintage 1890s silk dress which is in surprisingly good condition for a 100 plus year old dress. I am intending to wear it to a Victorian murder mystery party this weekend but I need to press it. Any suggestions for safely ironing this old of a dress? TIA Talia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 19:14:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQ0Ej2q007112 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:14:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ0E3TQ025697; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ0E0f9017493; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:14:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ0Dvf9017434 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:13:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a118.directcon.net [207.215.72.118]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hAQ0GtW11709; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:16:55 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031125161046.00b21420@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:10:46 -0800 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson In-Reply-To: <14f.26f3221c.2cf17cce@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [h-cost] Paging Cynthia Virtue X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry to spend bandwidth on this, but..Cynthia, I don't think the mailer on your website is working. I've sent you three emails over the last couple of weeks. Could you please get in touch? Thanks, Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 19:35:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQ0Zr2q007347 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:35:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ0YmTQ027272; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:34:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ0Ylf9001895; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:34:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ0YhfA001767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:34:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAQ0XQPX019741 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:33:26 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:33:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FC3F55A.5020407@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:35:38 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Paging Cynthia Virtue References: <3.0.6.32.20031125161046.00b21420@pop.directcon.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031125161046.00b21420@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Margo Anderson wrote: > Sorry to spend bandwidth on this, but..Cynthia, I don't think the mailer on > your website is working. I've sent you three emails over the last couple > of weeks. Could you please get in touch? I'll check it, and email you separately. However, it might be that your system is bouncing the TMDA verification form letter. This is a spam-control "white-list" system that needs to be replied to in order for the original mail to go through. I mention it here on the list in case anyone else has seen the form letter and was mystified. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Most of the "major" brands of hot cocoa have lots of salt in them to fool you into thinking they're chocolatey. The good brands have no salt in them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 20:07:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQ1772q007753 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:07:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ16CTQ029311; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 18:06:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ169PD021006; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 18:06:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ166PD020951 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 18:06:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a160.directcon.net [207.215.72.160]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hAQ194W13195; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:09:04 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031125170322.00b240a0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:03:22 -0800 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Paging Cynthia Virtue In-Reply-To: <3FC3F55A.5020407@thibault.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20031125161046.00b21420@pop.directcon.net> <3.0.6.32.20031125161046.00b21420@pop.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:35 PM 11/25/2003 -0500, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > >I'll check it, and email you separately. However, it might be that your >system is bouncing the TMDA verification form letter. Aha, that must be it! Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 21:13:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQ2D32q008632 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 21:13:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ29cTQ003145; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:09:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ29aBa028081; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:09:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mprdmxin.myway.com (nn1.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ29XBa027935 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:09:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 69DDF3994; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 21:09:23 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gambesons Received: from [142.161.147.186] by mprdmailfe3.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 21:09:23 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 94e2415150cdb08eac34e1ebcd0dd4cf From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Message-Id: <20031126020923.69DDF3994@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 21:09:23 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings Robin,Actually I make custom gambesons and jacks, as well as other "suitable for fighting" clothing. Unfortunately I don't have information on them on my web site yet, I have to do some changes on the site since they are of different time period, but I'd still be happy to talk to your friend. ( colours would be his choice, I do custom work to the clients specifications within reason, no hot pink lame) (don't laugh, I've seen it, eewww)Cheers, WendyEmma's Closetwww.hecate.ca/emma/--- On Sun 11/23, Robin Netherton < robin@shell.nightowl.net > wrote: From: Robin Netherton [mailto: robin@shell.nightowl.net]To: h-costume@indra.comDate: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:51:49 -0600 (CST)Subject: [h-cost] GambesonsA friend of mine wants to buy a gambeson for sparring (with padded swords)in his swordplay group. He's interested in something like the "daggedgambeson" found at http://www.revivalclothing.com/ (sorry, no direct linkto the page, but there's a link in the text just under the main picture).He's seen these and says they are authentic and sturdily made, but thecolors are not to his taste.Can anyone here recommend someone who sells something similar? He'd liketo know what his alternatives are.--Robin--- On Sun 11/23, Robin Netherton < robin@shell.nightowl.net > wrote: From: Robin Netherton [mailto: robin@shell.nightowl.net]To: h-costume@indra.comDate: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:51:49 -0600 (CST)Subject: [h-cost] GambesonsA friend of mine wants to buy a gambeson for sparring (with padded swords)in his swordplay group. He's interested in something like the "daggedgambeson" found at http://www.revivalclothing.com/ (sorry, no direct linkto the page, but there's a link in the text just under the main picture).He's seen these and says they are authentic and sturdily made, but thecolors are not to his taste.Can anyone here recommend someone who sells something similar? He'd liketo know what his alternatives are.--Robin_______________________________________________h-costume mailing listh-costume@mail.indra.comhttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 25 23:30:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQ4Uo2q009585 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:30:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ4UCTQ011347; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 21:30:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ4U9J2012020; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 21:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ4U6J2011962 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 21:30:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.131.273dd842 (25098) for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:29:57 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <131.273dd842.2cf58645@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:29:57 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pressing vintage 1890s silk dress? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's probably silk, right? so do the silk setting. I'd steam it if I could. Especially the bodice. Perhaps an alterations shop or drycleaners has a professional steamer. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 11:23:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQGNf2q027987 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:23:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQGMYTQ021808; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:22:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQGMQ9J004825; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:22:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQGML9J004704 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:22:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be3f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.63]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9D2925EE0E6 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:22:18 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004601c3b439$bfc6fad0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:24:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO sorry just test Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 11:57:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQGvd2q028659 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:57:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQGuwTQ025846; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:56:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQGuvhg005477; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:56:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQGurhg005419 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:56:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be3f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.63]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 63780480158 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:56:52 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:58:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] wondering X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I am considering maybe to sigm off this list. I think perhaps it is no longer interresting to be on because hardly any ever ask for things anymore. What is happening? Have you all gone coma? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 12:06:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQH6Z2q028824 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:06:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQH62TQ026710; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:06:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQH60hg013304; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQH5uhg013147 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:05:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (c-24-126-101-93.we.client2.attbi.com[24.126.101.93]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2003112617055001500pp1s2e> (Authid: ciorstan); Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:05:51 +0000 Message-ID: <3FC4DD6D.2010009@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:05:49 -0800 From: Ciorstan User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering References: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hello, > I am considering maybe to sigm off this list. I think perhaps it is no > longer interresting to be on because hardly any ever ask for things anymore. > What is happening? > Have you all gone coma? Well, the Americans have the excuse that this week is a major national holiday, with a four day weekend, which happens only once a year, reliably. This week is Thanksgiving. There is a lot of traveling going on right now as it's a major family get-together. And the rest of you? ;) karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 12:31:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQHVK2q029407 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:31:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHUZTQ029644; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:30:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHUXhg005630; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:30:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHUShg005555 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:30:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.69.210]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031126173027.RQVF1080.orval.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:30:27 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01c3b442$cafe23c0$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3FC4DD6D.2010009@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:29:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO snip > > And the rest of you? ;) > > karen Busily stomping around familiar territory at the moment, I'm ususally full of questions when I'm contemplating a new project, but right now I'm repairing a couple of my dance costumes, re-working and finishing a couple of others, and the rest is just finishing some Iron age garb for my husband. :-) Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 12:46:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQHkm2q029802 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:46:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHkKTQ001617; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:46:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHkEhg020479; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHk2hg020168 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:46:03 -0700 (MST) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 430064 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:45:52 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:45:52 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001b01c3b442$cafe23c0$cb6afea9@shooie> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> >> And the rest of you? ;) >> >> karen I've just finished three skirts, one bodice, one distressed petticoat and one apron for our Dickens' Fair in San Francisco. And am temporarily distressing my daughter's beautiful too-big wool overcoat to fit into her character of a street hooligan - patches and a false torn-up lining where the sleeves roll up. If I have several hours of time at home on Friday, I hope to dye one of my white cotton 1860's blouses a deep blue. These projects didn't need any help from the list; this is old territory. But the holiday-busy comment is certainly true; this week is Thanksgiving and that certainly takes up lots of time, especially when you have to cook and/or travel for the holiday. And I'm already in the process of making Christmas presents, and that doesn't involve this group's information at all. Anyone else? LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 12:50:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQHoM2q029866 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:50:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHndTQ001994; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:49:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHnbhg023944; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:49:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHnYhg023878 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:49:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id LAA15799 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:49:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:49:33 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FC4DD6D.2010009@comcast.net> Subject: [h-cost] New Costume Book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne: This is a slow time of year, costume-wise on this side on the pond. RenFaires are pretty much over and Christmas is coming so all we Yanks are pretty much preparing for the major holiday for most of us from now until Dec 25th! Also members involved in the academic world are probably having to put personal costuming interests aside or at least on "the back burner" until all the college semester final exams are over and students go home for the holidays. I just got a wonderful book(Merry Christmas to me! From me!)via Barnes & Noble's website. I've only got the littlest peek so far but will read some over lunch and try not to drool all over the book, and then really get into it tonight. I did notice that there was a good number of 1910's to early 1920's dresses in lovely color photographs--a decade that usually gets ignored since it marks the transition from the Edwardian silhouette to the Flapper image of the mid to late '20's, which to present-day eyes often appears eccentric, odd, or even unattractive, but I find fascinating. It is : A Separate Sphere: Dressmakers in Cincinnati's Golden Age-1877-1922 by Cynthia Amneus. Cincinnati Art Museum and Texas Tech University Press, c2003 In is in conjunction with the exhibition of the same name that is running through Jan 4, 2004. I got the paperback version at bn.com for $23.40 and free shipping since I have a B&N membership card. ISBN is 0-89672-515-4. Fans of late 19th early 20th c costume design may want to ask Santa for either the hardcopy or paperback edition of this book. Requires large stocking for delivery! Cindy Abel. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 12:59:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQHxm2q030187 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:59:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHxGTQ003050; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:59:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHxDai003029; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:59:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHx9ai002886 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:59:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.67.1d15659e (4568) for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:59:00 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <67.1d15659e.2cf643e4@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:59:00 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Costume Book To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/26/2003 12:50:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, brujne@creighton.edu writes: It is : A Separate Sphere: Dressmakers in Cincinnati's Golden Age-1877-1922 by Cynthia Amneus. Cincinnati Art Museum and Texas Tech University Press, c2003 This is the first book in the Costume Society of America series published by Texas Tech University. Just a reminder to those of you who are CSA members--if you order through CSA's website to Amazon.com, CSA gets a cut! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 13:00:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQI0E2q030214 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:00:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHxYTQ003097; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:59:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHxVai003297; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:59:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQHxCai003019 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:59:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hAQHx9nd026131 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:59:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031126125810.00b5f8c8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:59:14 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering In-Reply-To: References: <001b01c3b442$cafe23c0$cb6afea9@shooie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all... Holiday, Travel, 3 new web sites for Cornell University. Too much Bridgette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 13:01:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQI1H2q030239 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:01:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQI0eTQ003245; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQI0cai004439; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:00:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQI0aai004339 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:00:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1c4.1240d63f (4568) for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:00:28 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1c4.1240d63f.2cf6443c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:00:28 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/26/2003 12:47:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, LDownward@chori.org writes: And I'm already in the process of making Christmas presents, and that doesn't involve this group's information at all. True--Friday I'm not going near a mall but will instead sew dresses for my two granddaughters for Christmas. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 13:06:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQI6e2q030321 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:06:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQI61TQ003937; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQI5xai009890; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:05:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQI5tai009839 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:05:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HOZ00HWK0XU9R@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:05:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:05:04 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031126100234.02b37fd8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <001b01c3b442$cafe23c0$cb6afea9@shooie> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:45 AM 11/26/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I've just finished three skirts, one bodice, one distressed petticoat and >one apron for our Dickens' Fair in San Francisco. Hi LynnD, When and where is SF's Dicken's faire, again? I know I asked before, but I can't find it right now. I want to go this year, dressed up or not (really don't have time to make something), and want to drag some friends to it as well. And as for what I am doing.. figuring out what exactly I am going to make my husband for his 1580s nobles, which I already asked questions about. And making pumpkin pie and fresh bread for tomorrows dinner with the family. Not to mention the ever present son who needs caring for at his tender age of 16 months. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 13:07:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQI7O2q030341 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:07:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQI6mTQ004027; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:06:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQI6lai010738; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:06:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9402.mail.yahoo.com (web9402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAQI6iai010700 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:06:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031126180644.47184.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.251.232] by web9402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:06:44 PST Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:06:44 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] just wondering X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, for me-----it's ALL of the above---! Getting ready for Thanksgiving--plus doing research for my next projects--(new Italian,new flemish, also a corded petticoat, and corded corset) plus , now that I am retired ---I am re-organizing my costumne and needlework library , as well as finally inventorying my fabric stash(1 HUGE sewing room, floor to 16 ft ceiling piled high --plus a seperate walk in closet). Everything is going to go into tidy little boxes with fabric swatch and yardage noted on the front. I am SO tired of not being able to find what I need, when I need it. And worse--duplicating my purchases. However, I have always secretly wondered how everyone on this list seemed to have so much time to chat away merrily--and still costumne/work/take care of homes! I'm afraid I am not nearly as good at 'multitasking' as all of you seem to be:) Cheers and Best -- Albra --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 13:11:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQIB82q030409 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:11:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIAWTQ004551; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:10:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIAVai014442; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:10:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAQIAQai014341 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:10:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 10545 invoked by uid 1005); 26 Nov 2003 18:10:16 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.223209 secs); 26 Nov 2003 18:10:16 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.223209 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2003 18:10:15 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:10:20 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Costume Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031126130736.S28327-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got this book too, when I went to see the exhibit. Which is more fabulous than the book! I urge everyone to go see it if you're within driving distance of Cincinatti, even if it's not your primary time of interest. I don't do victorian or early 20th century, but the exhibit put me into raptures. The gowns are on round stands with no glass, allowing you to walk around them and examine them from all angles. And the guards are very understanding when you crouch down, lean in and peer fixedly at seam treatments for five minutes at a time. :) Drea On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Cindy Abel wrote: > Bjarne: This is a slow time of year, costume-wise on this side on the pond. > RenFaires are pretty much over and Christmas is coming so all we Yanks are > pretty much preparing for the major holiday for most of us from now until > Dec 25th! > > Also members involved in the academic world are probably having to put > personal costuming interests aside or at least on "the back burner" until > all the college semester final exams are over and students go home for the > holidays. > > I just got a wonderful book(Merry Christmas to me! From me!)via Barnes & > Noble's website. I've only got the littlest peek so far but will read some > over lunch and try not to drool all over the book, and then really get into > it tonight. I did notice that there was a good number of 1910's to early > 1920's dresses in lovely color photographs--a decade that usually gets > ignored since it marks the transition from the Edwardian silhouette to the > Flapper image of the mid to late '20's, which to present-day eyes often > appears eccentric, odd, or even unattractive, but I find fascinating. > > It is : A Separate Sphere: Dressmakers in Cincinnati's Golden Age-1877-1922 > by Cynthia Amneus. Cincinnati Art Museum and Texas Tech University Press, > c2003 > In is in conjunction with the exhibition of the same name that is running > through Jan 4, 2004. I got the paperback version at bn.com for $23.40 and > free shipping since I have a B&N membership card. ISBN is 0-89672-515-4. > > Fans of late 19th early 20th c costume design may want to ask Santa for > either the hardcopy or paperback edition of this book. Requires large > stocking for delivery! > > Cindy Abel. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 13:13:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQIDK2q030471 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:13:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIClTQ004826; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:12:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQICkai016677; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:12:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQICfai016510 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:12:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.12d.35a8cd08 (4568) for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:12:34 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <12d.35a8cd08.2cf64711@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:12:33 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] just wondering To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/26/2003 1:07:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: Everything is going to go into tidy little boxes with fabric swatch and yardage noted on the front. I am SO tired of not being able to find what I need, when I need it. And worse--duplicating my purchases. Good for you! A six-month house guest forced me to do a major house cleaning and reorganization this summer. I weeded through fabrics and gave quite a bit away. I did not put swatches on the boxes where the rest is stored, but I did write on each box a brief description. Not only is it frustrating to duplicate purchases, but also to waste time going to the store to buy something for a project when I know I have "some at home somewhere." Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 13:32:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQIW22q030919 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:32:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIUrTQ006563; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:30:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQITXai002464; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:29:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9401.mail.yahoo.com (web9401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAQITRai002373 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:29:28 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031126182927.83398.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.251.232] by web9401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:29:27 PST Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:29:27 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] just wondering X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well--for me --it's ALL of the above! Starting to prep for the Holidays--plus researching for my next projects(new Italian , new Flemish, plus a corded petticoat)--plus, now that I am retired, I am re-organizing my costumne and needlework library, as well as finally doing an inventory of my fabric stash(1 HUGE sewing room , with floor to 15 foot ceiling piles o' fabric--plus a seperate walk-in closet). Everything is going into tidy little boxes with fabric swatch and yardage noted on the front.( I am SO tired of not being able to find what I need , when I need it. Or worse, duplicating my purchases.) However, I have often secretly wondered how so many of the folks on this list seemed to have time to chat merrilly along --and still seem to manage to costumne/work/take care of home and families! I'm afraid I am not nearly as good at 'multi-tasking' as so many of you seem to be:) Cheers and Best-- Albra --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 13:33:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQIX32q030930 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:33:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIWKTQ006700; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:32:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIVOai004315; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:31:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIV0ai003980 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:31:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip92.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.92]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A06A6F6FC for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:30:58 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:30:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Message-ID: <3FC480DE.25048.1B5199C1@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am considering maybe to sigm off this list. I think perhaps it is no > longer interresting to be on because hardly any ever ask for things > anymore. What is happening? Have you all gone coma? The list always seems to have ebb tides and flow tides. Chances are about a day after you signed off there would be someone asking for your expertise, Bjarne, or someone with a post which interests you. A couple of weeks ago the list was so busy I could barely keep up with the mail, and this week it's quiet except for time periods that I have no interest in. But I know that soon the tide will turn. ;) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 13:34:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQIYN2q030943 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:34:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIXmTQ006874; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:33:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIXmai006700; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:33:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAQIXjai006649 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:33:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031126183345.9994.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.251.232] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:33:45 PST Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:33:45 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] just wondering To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <12d.35a8cd08.2cf64711@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I figure that some of the fabric I weed thru will also go to prezzies for costumner friends this Holiday Season:) There is also the problem that my husband absolutely refuses to bump out any more walls on our house for my fabric/sewing obsession--and I have most certainly attained 'critical mass' :) AnnBWass@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 11/26/2003 1:07:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: Everything is going to go into tidy little boxes with fabric swatch and yardage noted on the front. I am SO tired of not being able to find what I need, when I need it. And worse--duplicating my purchases. Good for you! A six-month house guest forced me to do a major house cleaning and reorganization this summer. I weeded through fabrics and gave quite a bit away. I did not put swatches on the boxes where the rest is stored, but I did write on each box a brief description. Not only is it frustrating to duplicate purchases, but also to waste time going to the store to buy something for a project when I know I have "some at home somewhere." Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 13:43:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQIh22q031026 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:43:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIgNTQ007786; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:42:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIgNai015206; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIgJai015030 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:42:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAQIgDQ18537 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:42:13 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:48:37 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3FC480DE.25048.1B5199C1@localhost> Message-Id: <25290DC8-2041-11D8-A745-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lessee... I have three papers to finish, as well as grading for three classes,and three finals in two weeks. On top of that I am running an event on Dec 6 for which I need to make new outfits for my two darling children, and will be attending an event Dec 13-15 for which I have to have a new dress done (1540 Bordone). Luckily, I am only responsible for a pumpkin cheesecake and cranberry relish for tomorrow. Off to finish cutting out my Bordone dress and to make patterns for the my darling childrens' outfits :) Althea > >> I am considering maybe to sigm off this list. I think perhaps it is no >> longer interresting to be on because hardly any ever ask for things >> anymore. What is happening? Have you all gone coma? > > The list always seems to have ebb tides and flow tides. > > Chances are about a day after you signed off there would be someone > asking for your expertise, Bjarne, or someone with a post which > interests you. > > A couple of weeks ago the list was so busy I could barely keep up > with the mail, and this week it's quiet except for time periods that > I have no interest in. > > But I know that soon the tide will turn. ;) > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 13:44:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQIin2q031044 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:44:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIi7TQ008082; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIi6ai017309; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:44:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQIi3ai017138 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7C41425CE for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:50:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FC4F5B7.6050609@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:49:27 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering References: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3FC4DD6D.2010009@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <3FC4DD6D.2010009@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ciorstan wrote: > > And the rest of you? ;) > Sewing for a craft show I did with a friend last weekend... Frantic last minute planning for a vacation that literally just got handed to us for the 2nd week in December.... Two dinner parties in two weeks for visiting friends, never mind Thanksgiving with the whole family at my house this year... And in the last 48 hours at home.... two attempted break-ins (during broad daylight while I was in the house), the washing machine breaking and spewing water all over my laundry toom, and the sewer backing up into a guest room in the basement that has to be ready for tonight... I haven't even started the holiday gift shopping. Costume wise I am trying to find 4 yards of solid dark wool at a bargain price (something less than $7 a yard, I may be dreaming, but I'm still looking) for an SCA event in February. Trying to finish up a couple gypsy skirts to sell at a dancer's flea market this spring.... but mostly as I deal with the rest of the house and the goings-on my sewing room is becoming a catch-all for crap that is getting moved from other rooms. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 14:09:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQJ9b2q031229 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:09:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQJ8xTQ010430; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:08:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQJ8u3d010360; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:08:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQJ8q3d010282 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:08:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be3f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.63]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3C7205EE1AC for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:08:49 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002301c3b451$08261510$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FC377BB.4010008@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:11:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Deredere! I am very late with this, hope it is all right First you have a confusion about the years. You say 18th. century but it is 19th. Never mind. A corset in Norah Waughs book from 1844 has bones in each seam. This is a 8 piece corset wich has bones in each piece. Then it has 2 bones in each CB. seams where it is laced. Even some bones at the shoulders. So i hope this helps you!!! Bjarne ----- Original Messge ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 4:39 PM Subject: [h-cost] 1845 corset > Hi, > > I am making Simplicity 7215 and was looking at some corsets and I got > the idea that most early 18th century corsets don't have a front closure. > But a wooden busk in front. Since I couldn't get a front busk with hooks > and eyes for my corset I am quite happy to notice this. > So I am making mine with closed front and bust pocket. But what I also > noticed that it looks like the wooden busk is sometimes the only boning > in the whole corstet. > Am I right about that?? Looks a lot more comfertable to me. I will put > boning in the back to keep the lacing strait. > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 14:25:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQJP82q031440 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:25:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQJOMTQ011995; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:24:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQJOI3d024624; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:24:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQJOB3d024420 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:24:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99DFF1B355A for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:05:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 23793-06 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:05:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D5C61B3512 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:05:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <018301c3b450$42649fe0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><3FC4DD6D.2010009@comcast.net> <3FC4F5B7.6050609@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] wool vendor Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:05:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just won an eBay auction for five yards of dark green wool from a seller whose ID was en5001. I haven't received it yet, so can't vouch for the quality, but the total including shipping was $36.00, and he had numerous auctions. If it's as nice as it looked in the pic, he may have a customer for life! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering > Costume wise I am trying to find 4 yards of solid dark wool at a bargain > price (something less than $7 a yard, I may be dreaming, but I'm still > looking) for an SCA event in February. Trying to finish up a couple > gypsy skirts to sell at a dancer's flea market this spring.... but > mostly as I deal with the rest of the house and the goings-on my sewing > room is becoming a catch-all for crap that is getting moved from other > rooms. > > > > Dawn I just won an eBay auction for five yards of dark green wool from a seller whose ID was en5001. I haven't received it yet, so can't vouch for the quality, but the total including shipping was $36.00, and he had numerous auctions. If it's as nice as it looked in the pic, he may have a customer for life! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 14:58:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQJwS2q031891 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:58:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQJvnTQ015026; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:57:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQJvjCa024079; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:57:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav59.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQJvgCa023945 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:57:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:56:14 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav59.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:56:14 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3FC4DD6D.2010009@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:55:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2003 19:56:14.0787 (UTC) FILETIME=[592E5930:01C3B457] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well, the Americans have the excuse that this week is a major national > holiday, with a four day weekend, which happens only once a year, > reliably. This week is Thanksgiving. There is a lot of traveling going > on right now as it's a major family get-together. > > And the rest of you? ;) I've been caught in three things: Christmas shopping, cooking and planning (anything costume-related all but stops about two months before Christmas every year), the end of the University semester, and an emergency operation for appendicitis. Plus, I just got all three PoFs for my B-Day (2 months late), so what little costume-related activities remaining have suddenly turned into "soaking up information" in the Renaissance volume... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 15:00:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQK0n2q031999 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:00:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQK06TQ015308; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:00:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQK00Ca026616; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav16.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQJxtCa026404 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:59:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:59:50 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav16.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:59:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031126180644.47184.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] just wondering Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:59:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2003 19:59:50.0341 (UTC) FILETIME=[D9A94750:01C3B457] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > However, I have always secretly wondered how everyone on this list seemed to have so much time to chat away merrily--and still costumne/work/take care of homes! I'm afraid I am not nearly as good at 'multitasking' as all of you seem to be:) Oh, I don't. When I want to really get into a costume, I have to stop chatting, or it never gets done... I justify my time chatting by thinking about the incredible number of things I managed to learn just by hanging around... See, not three years ago, I was totally clueless... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 15:02:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQK2q2q032016 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:02:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQK2ITQ015623; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:02:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQK2HCa029034; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:02:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQK29Ca028810 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:02:10 -0700 (MST) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 430577 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:02:04 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:02:03 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens Fair, San Francisco From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031126100234.02b37fd8@64.87.54.245> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I apologize to the list; I was going to respond privately to Kimiko and decided to send the response to all in case others were interested. If not, hit delete now. The Dickens Fair is at the Cow Palace again this year. Not actually IN the big Cow Palace but in several of the buildings below the Palace. It's in the southern part of San Francisco and if you're taking 101 either to or from San Jose, there are signs telling you 'Cow Palace next exit.' Tickets are $20 at the gate plus parking, but it's open from 11-7 each weekend day and lots of fun - food, crafts, theaters, street actors, Mr. Dickens and many of his characters. They're also performing a new version of "Treasure Island" (no, not one of Mr. Dickens' writing) on one of the stages; the actors in it are quite excited about how great it's going. Fagan walks the streets and Nancy runs from Bill daily. Mr. Scrooge can be seen in his nightshirt (but not by the actors) on the streets with various ghosts. Mr and Mrs Fezziwigg have invited you to the company Christmas party in their warehouse -- all sorts of characters are everywhere. Edgar Poe are Rudyard Kipling are there, many explorers, writers, military men of the time show up. Kayta and I will be there from h-costume. Any other questions - please email me off list. LynnD On 11/26/03 10:05 AM, "Kimiko Small" wrote: > At 09:45 AM 11/26/2003 -0800, you wrote: >> I've just finished three skirts, one bodice, one distressed petticoat and >> one apron for our Dickens' Fair in San Francisco. > > > Hi LynnD, > > When and where is SF's Dicken's faire, again? I know I asked before, but I > can't find it right now. I want to go this year, dressed up or not (really > don't have time to make something), and want to drag some friends to it as > well. > > And as for what I am doing.. figuring out what exactly I am going to make > my husband for his 1580s nobles, which I already asked questions about. And > making pumpkin pie and fresh bread for tomorrows dinner with the family. > Not to mention the ever present son who needs caring for at his tender age > of 16 months. > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 15:19:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQKJa2q032430 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:19:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKJ8TQ017531; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:19:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKJ4Ca015475; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:19:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKIxCa015301 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:18:59 -0700 (MST) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 430640 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:18:54 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:18:53 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] just wondering From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've solved this problem by having h-costume and h-needlework come to me at work. I never can get onto my computer at home - too much to do and opening up my email with 2,354 unread messages is daunting! Now, if only my bosses would cooperate, I'd be able to get more 'listing' done. Today is calm but the past two weeks have been dreadful; it would take all day to catch up with emails. LynnD On 11/26/03 11:59 AM, "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" wrote: >> However, I have always secretly wondered how everyone on this list seemed > to have so much time to chat away merrily--and still costumne/work/take care > of homes! I'm afraid I am not nearly as good at 'multitasking' as all of you > seem to be:) > > Oh, I don't. When I want to really get into a costume, I have to stop > chatting, or it never gets done... I justify my time chatting by thinking > about the incredible number of things I managed to learn just by hanging > around... See, not three years ago, I was totally clueless... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 15:22:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQKMY2q032453 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:22:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKLqTQ017835; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:21:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKLmCa017755; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:21:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav34.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKLjCa017652 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:21:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:21:40 -0800 Received: from 66.125.153.60 by bay4-dav34.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:21:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.125.153.60] X-Originating-Email: [ysandra8@msn.com] From: "ysandra sliverneedle" To: , References: <200311261902.hAQJ2c3f004499@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:21:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:21:39 -0800 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2003 20:21:40.0515 (UTC) FILETIME=[E695F730:01C3B45A] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne/lace patterns/ use of Lace on Tudor dresses/Thanksgiving thoughts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hAQKMY2q032453 Status: RO Bjarne, Please don't leave us! I have a question about a pattern book Nuw Modelbuch with period lace patterns from late 1500's. I have Le Pompe and wanted to get this book as well or at least any other book with lace patterns from this time period to go on my Elizabethan dresses. Now a question on the early Tudor period clothing how extensive was lace used? We are going to a Christmas Tudor Madrigal dinner put on by the University of California Irvine and would like to include lace on my dress. Any information that you all have would be greatly appreciated. Happy Thanksgiving and Many Blessings Thanks for love of friends, family, Health, and the Southern California Wild fires being put out, and special Blessings for all those who fought the fires, those who lost homes and loved ones, prayers for those who go through the stress of rebuilding. Bless those who serve far from home prayers for protection for them. Ysandra who has so MUCH to be thankful for this season. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 15:23:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQKNi2q032461 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:23:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKM5TQ017860; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:22:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKM4Ca018019; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:22:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav34.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKLjCa017653 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:21:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:21:40 -0800 Received: from 66.125.153.60 by bay4-dav34.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:21:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.125.153.60] X-Originating-Email: [ysandra8@msn.com] From: "ysandra sliverneedle" To: , References: <200311261902.hAQJ2c3f004499@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:21:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:21:39 -0800 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2003 20:21:40.0515 (UTC) FILETIME=[E695F730:01C3B45A] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne/lace patterns/ use of Lace on Tudor dresses/Thanksgiving thoughts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hAQKNi2q032461 Status: RO Bjarne, Please don't leave us! I have a question about a pattern book Nuw Modelbuch with period lace patterns from late 1500's. I have Le Pompe and wanted to get this book as well or at least any other book with lace patterns from this time period to go on my Elizabethan dresses. Now a question on the early Tudor period clothing how extensive was lace used? We are going to a Christmas Tudor Madrigal dinner put on by the University of California Irvine and would like to include lace on my dress. Any information that you all have would be greatly appreciated. Happy Thanksgiving and Many Blessings Thanks for love of friends, family, Health, and the Southern California Wild fires being put out, and special Blessings for all those who fought the fires, those who lost homes and loved ones, prayers for those who go through the stress of rebuilding. Bless those who serve far from home prayers for protection for them. Ysandra who has so MUCH to be thankful for this season. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 15:24:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQKOn2q032469 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:24:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKODTQ018124; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:24:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKOCCa019839; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:24:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKOACa019807 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:24:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HOZ00H1I7C89R@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:24:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:23:19 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens Fair, San Francisco In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031126122256.02b25b90@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031126100234.02b37fd8@64.87.54.245> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:02 PM 11/26/2003 -0800, you wrote: >The Dickens Fair is at the Cow Palace again this year. Thanks LynnD!! I look forward to seeing you there... I just am not sure when. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 15:26:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQKQl2q032485 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:26:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKQATQ018357; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:26:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKQ9Ca021627; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:26:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav68.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKQ7Ca021512 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:26:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:26:02 -0800 Received: from 66.125.153.60 by bay4-dav68.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:26:02 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.125.153.60] X-Originating-Email: [ysandra8@msn.com] From: "ysandra sliverneedle" To: References: <200311261902.hAQJ2c3f004499@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:26:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:26:02 -0800 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2003 20:26:02.0545 (UTC) FILETIME=[82C49210:01C3B45B] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] SCA February event X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hAQKQl2q032485 Status: RO Lady Dawn, Fear not gentle lady for the is a GREAT WAR in February called Estrella WAR! It is in Arizona and it is the largest war in the western Kingdoms. Not to mention just plain FUN! Look under the SCA web site Kingdom of CAID for more information. I suppose that Ativenlt would also have information, but I live in CAID. Anon Lady Ysenda de Gray, O.D. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 15:35:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQKZN2q032720 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:35:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKXSTQ019192; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:33:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKXRCa028688; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:33:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKXMCa028613 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:33:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10741 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:59:03 -0600 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:59:03 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wool vendor In-Reply-To: <018301c3b450$42649fe0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > I just won an eBay auction for five yards of dark green wool from a > seller whose ID was en5001. I haven't received it yet, so can't vouch > for the quality, but the total including shipping was $36.00, and he > had numerous auctions. That's Ephraim Neuman. I bought the red wool for my new fitted dress from him. He mucked up my delivery, but when I did get it it was definitely worth the wait, and the price was excellent. It looks like he works off large bolts, selling them in five-yard increments till the bolt is gone. I found four previous auctions from the same bolt as mine -- same picture and description, posted one after the other. So if bidding has gone up on one you want, you can try waiting a week to catch the next one (at least till the bolt runs out). I also emailed the previous winners off "my" bolt to ask them about the fabric and how it worked/felt for them. This was really helpful in my decision to buy. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 15:38:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQKcQ2q000434 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:38:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKanTQ019506; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:36:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKamCa001931; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:36:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKajCa001887 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:36:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HOZ003IJ7X7IC@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:36:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:35:56 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne/lace patterns/ use of Lace on Tudor dresses/Thanksgiving thoughts In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031126122956.00b0d2c8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200311261902.hAQJ2c3f004499@net.indra.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:21 PM 11/26/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Now a question on the early Tudor period clothing how extensive was lace >used? We are going to a Christmas Tudor Madrigal dinner put on by the >University of California Irvine and would like to include lace on my >dress. Any information that you all have would be greatly appreciated. >Happy Thanksgiving and Many Blessings Hi Ysandra, How early a Tudor period are you asking about? I do Henry VIII's period, and most of the portraits and such from his period show little lace being used, usually on the ends of shirt cuffs or ruffled cuffs, or at the edges of collars. Blackwork is shown a bit more I think. If you want to add trimmings and stitch beads or jewels onto the trim, do so around the square neckline of the gown, and wear a lovely long jeweled belt that hangs in the front. I wish there was more places for lace during Henry's time, but it wasn't fashionable or as available as it was in later Elizabethan times. And Happy Thanksgiving with much blessings to you as well. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 16:00:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQL0O2q000798 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:00:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKv8TQ021968; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:57:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKv6GP021769; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQKv2GP021638 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1ED6425CE for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:03:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FC514E4.3070807@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:02:28 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wool vendor References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > >>I just won an eBay auction for five yards of dark green wool from a >>seller whose ID was en5001. > > That's Ephraim Neuman. I bought the red wool for my new fitted dress from > him. He mucked up my delivery, but when I did get it it was definitely > worth the wait, and the price was excellent. > > It looks like he works off large bolts, selling them in five-yard > increments till the bolt is gone. Thanks for the information. I looked at some of his auctions the other night, but I'm leery of buying fabric I can't feel with my own hands. Knowing other costumers have had good transactions really helps. I'll have another look at his auctions after the holiday. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 16:19:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQLJs2q000933 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:19:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQLHvTQ024173; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:17:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQLHtGP010378; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:17:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQLHpGP010261 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:17:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0950.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.183]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37A851A0894 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:08:20 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FC5178E.6030207@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:13:50 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Bodice 19th century dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I enlarged an evening bodice from patterns of fashion. I tink it almost fits. But at the sides the bodice is shorter than my waist. I wonder if this is ok or that the lady was a bit shorter than me(and had brobably slightly larger brests since it looks too wide at the front). http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html What do you think, schould I make the bodice longer at the waist?? Sorry that I am asking so many questions but I don't know much about this period and I have so little time. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 16:34:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQLYK2q000994 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:34:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQLXdTQ025656; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:33:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQLXbGP025053; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:33:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAQLXWGP024890 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:33:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OsclAZEUN0kCojw15W1QWrA=">; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:33:24 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JFXNE8MP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:33:24 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:26:56 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] just wondering Message-ID: <20031126.133256.2004.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-13 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:59:30 -0500 "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" writes: > > However, I have always secretly wondered how everyone on this list > seemed > to have so much time to chat away merrily--and still > costumne/work/take care > of homes! I'm afraid I am not nearly as good at 'multitasking' as > all of you > seem to be:) I have a great Life. I just don't have a Job. ;) Happy Thanksgiving, American pals! Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 16:35:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQLZC2q000997 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:35:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQLYYTQ025819; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:34:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQLYRGP025878; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:34:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQLY1GP025363 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0950.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.183]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C5FDBF7E8 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:26:29 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FC51BD0.1090703@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:32:00 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset References: <3FC377BB.4010008@kabelfoon.nl> <002301c3b451$08261510$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Thanks! I really need to buy that book! I made Smplicity 7215. The corset just fits and is actually a bit to big but it is ok. Next time I will make it at least one size smaller. I am not going to follow the placing of the bones as the pattern says because it isn't working. There is one at the side that makes an angle an the metal boning starts to twist grrrr.. So I took that one out. It may be a bit more comfertable if I place it on the side seem.... I think I just have to try what works for me... Next one will be better... Greetings, Deredere Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi Deredere! > >I am very late with this, hope it is all right >First you have a confusion about the years. You say 18th. century but it is >19th. >Never mind. >A corset in Norah Waughs book from 1844 has bones in each seam. This is a 8 >piece corset wich has bones in each piece. Then it has 2 bones in each CB. >seams where it is laced. Even some bones at the shoulders. >So i hope this helps you!!! > >Bjarne > >----- Original Messge ----- >From: "Deredere Galbraith" >To: "H-Costume" >Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 4:39 PM >Subject: [h-cost] 1845 corset > > > > >>Hi, >> >>I am making Simplicity 7215 and was looking at some corsets and I got >>the idea that most early 18th century corsets don't have a front closure. >>But a wooden busk in front. Since I couldn't get a front busk with hooks >>and eyes for my corset I am quite happy to notice this. >>So I am making mine with closed front and bust pocket. But what I also >>noticed that it looks like the wooden busk is sometimes the only boning >>in the whole corstet. >>Am I right about that?? Looks a lot more comfertable to me. I will put >>boning in the back to keep the lacing strait. >> >>Greetings, >> Deredere >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 17:05:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQM5H2q001294 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:05:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM4LTQ028042; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:04:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM4JHa020716; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:04:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM4EHa020655 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:04:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.137.104.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([67.74.137.104] helo=diane) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AP7ld-0005tP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:04:14 -0800 Message-ID: <007801c3b469$3a05a4c0$68894a43@diane> From: "Diane Maynard" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:04:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO PLEASE do not leave us ! I absolutely Love seeing all of your projects and reading your advise even though I mostly just lurk. Right now I am in the middle of completing three full Elizabethan gowns for friends and do not have much time for anything else but getting the turkey ready for tomorrow's Thanksgiving dinner with my family. You would be greatly missed ! Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:58 AM Subject: [h-cost] wondering > Hello, > I am considering maybe to sigm off this list. I think perhaps it is no > longer interresting to be on because hardly any ever ask for things anymore. > What is happening? > Have you all gone coma? > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 17:06:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQM642q001297 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:06:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM5UTQ028177; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:05:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM5UHa021821; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:05:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM5NHa021718 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:05:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-47.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.47]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM4mph009191 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:04:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031126124859.04e4bb70@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:53:30 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] just wondering In-Reply-To: <20031126180644.47184.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Well, for me-----it's ALL of the above---! Getting ready for >Thanksgiving--plus doing research for my next projects-- Yesterday evening my Sweetie decided he wanted to do Thanksgiving in instead of out, so suddenly I have to stop sewing and shop for all the stuff for dinner to cook tomorrow. >However, I have always secretly wondered how everyone on this list seemed >to have so much time to chat away merrily--and still costumne/work/take >care of homes! I'm afraid I am not nearly as good at 'multitasking' as all >of you seem to be:) The housemate woke up at 5:30, heard the sewing machine, and asked if I was still sewing costumes for Dickens' Fair. I said no, I thought I had all the opening weekend costumes done, I was sewing accessories. I still need to make the two dolls commissioned for Christmas gifts. And if the younger daughter wants to visit Dickens' this year she will want a costume. And there's all the unfinished 18th century stuff I had to stop sewing in early November... Accessories still needed for Dickens': Water glass bag, of wool and silk, embroidered; knife and fork roll-up case, of wool and silk, embroidered; traveling bag, linen with wool braid banding, embroidered; new hat from straw braid sewn together, decorated; macrame purse; macrame watch lanyard (get watch repaired or replaced); little green "carriage parasol" (every actor needs a green umbrella). Costume bits to finish for 2nd/3rd/4th weekends of Dickens': c.1840 chemisette; late 1840s basque bodice; crochet collar; finish basque jacket; finish crochet shawl; make 1864 outfit (canezou blouse, skirt, Zouave jacket with tons of braid, hat, shoes, embroidered belt and belt purse). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 17:06:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQM6O2q001300 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:06:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM5iTQ028232; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:05:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM5eHa021976; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:05:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM5OHa021725 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:05:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-47.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.47]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM4mpj009191 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:04:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031126135742.053d5360@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:04:44 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Dickens' Fair - who/where? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Who on this list is working Dickens' Fair, or will be there in costume? We ought to say hello to each other like we did at Costume College. You'll know me - I'll be in costume ;) Saturdays I will be Mrs. Foote, the Fezziwig's Cockney cook, and will be hanging around Fezziwig's (dancing place) in c1840 with a bib-apron. The peppermints in my right-hand pocket are available to anyone who can get them out of my pocket in character. Sundays I will be Mrs. Creesy the Yankee clipper ship captain's wife, and will be at the Adventurer's Club. I will be wearing something middle-class, and a blue bonnet with orange velvet "bluebells" when outdoors. Indoors I will likely be doing macrame. At some point I will be giving a short talk about the record-breaking 1851 voyage of the 'Flying Cloud' (Mrs. Creesy was the navigator of her husband's ship). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 17:09:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQM9J2q001313 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:09:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM8hTQ028461; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:08:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM8hHa024643; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:08:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM8dHa024522 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:08:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123])hAQLgOE13492 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:42:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AP7QB-00034W-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:42:03 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:42:17 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c3b466$2ca6f930$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <000f01c3aee4$8fccb540$6501a8c0@SG01> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hAQM8dHa024522 Subject: [h-cost] Wondering...here is a question that never got any takers....Cloak/Cape hood shapes.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, I'd even be interested in opinions or remembrances even if no one has an overall view point....... -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Saragrace T. Knauf Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:32 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Cloak/Cape hood shapes.... Anyone have a handle on how hood shapes developed over the years? I am interested in anything from anywhere (Europe, but influences are okay) from around 1400-1600. The only ones that stand out in my mind are the duck billed (almost look like ball caps) Flemish ones, but that is because I have been 'doing' Breughel garb all summer. I think I remember a pointed one somewhere with a tassle on the end.but that may have been a wizard dream. I am sure I have not seen the Kinsale Cloak hood shape any earlier than the late 1800s..anyone know of it sooner? I love the hood, but I am afraid it screams Victorian. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 17:10:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQMAN2q001317 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:10:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM9fTQ028533; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:09:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM9cHa025301; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:09:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav119.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQM9ZHa025202 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:09:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:09:30 -0800 Received: from 66.125.152.3 by bay4-dav119.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:09:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.125.152.3] X-Originating-Email: [ysandra8@msn.com] From: "ysandra sliverneedle" To: References: <200311262134.hAQLXvGR025385@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:09:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:09:29 -0800 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2003 22:09:30.0074 (UTC) FILETIME=[F6BE53A0:01C3B469] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Tudor and Lace X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hAQMAN2q001317 Status: RO Kimiko Henry's time is the time for the dinner. The dinner doesn't say "which" wife he has currently but I want to wear a gable hood so my guess is early. Many thanks for the prompt answer-- I found some out of this world beaded lace at Wal-mart this week. I am going to add it to the Gable hood I am making and the rest as you suggested. Thanks again Ysandra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 17:28:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQMSF2q001438 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:28:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQMRfTQ000518; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:27:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQMRcHa012471; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:27:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQMRWHa012380 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:27:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A8D76F03FC; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:27:35 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] wondering Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:27:35 -0600 Message-ID: <001801c3b46c$7de25b40$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Doing some cooking prep and waiting the arrival of a thread order to start an Elizabethan Sampler project I got recently at an event. Not much happening on the construction front.. Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:59 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] wondering Hello, I am considering maybe to sigm off this list. I think perhaps it is no longer interresting to be on because hardly any ever ask for things anymore. What is happening? Have you all gone coma? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 17:44:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQMiD2q001566 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:44:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQMhZTQ001691; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:43:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQMhPHa024960; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:43:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQMhIHa024826 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:43:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB0AE2F00B6; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:36:58 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB054E0300; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:36:53 -0600 Message-ID: <016701c3b46e$7c881080$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001801c3b46c$7de25b40$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:41:51 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been helping with my sons' play, Children of Eden, for the past month. Their last performance was last Monday night. I came home and slept 12 hours. Today, I pulled out the Japanese quilt that I started last year. I am hoping my back holds out to finish it this year for my son's Christmas present. The quilt is spread out all over the floor of my office. I have about 1/3 of the top to finish. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 17:45:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQMjK2q001576 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:45:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQMihTQ001826; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:44:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQMicHa025872; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:44:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQMhQHa024969 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:43:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HOZ0032KAZJI6@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:42:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:42:09 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset In-reply-to: <3FC51BD0.1090703@kabelfoon.nl> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031126134031.00b0d2c8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3FC377BB.4010008@kabelfoon.nl> <002301c3b451$08261510$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:32 PM 11/26/2003 +0100, you wrote: >There is one at the side that makes an angle an the metal boning starts to >twist grrrr.. >So I took that one out. Hi Deredere, You may want to try using spiral boning, if you can get it in time. It will curve with the body, and not twist and poke like regular boning does in some angles. Spiral bones are designed specifically to be applied to places that need bones in a curved area. hth, Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 17:59:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQMxB2q001636 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:59:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQMwXTQ003074; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:58:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQMwWsS007037; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:58:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAQMwTsS006964 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:58:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OuV0JJEUsQ1QB+Sbeh6OM8s=">; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:58:03 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JFXS98L3; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:58:03 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:57:41 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Message-ID: <20031126.145742.2036.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,5-7,9 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, DON'T GO!!!!! (she wails!) You're a source of joy, of inspiration, and I've learned a lot from you (as well as leaving sizable puddles of drool on my carpet while viewing your lovely work)! Arlys, who's got a ton of embroidery to do between now and Christmas but decided to locate the top of her desk today ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 18:06:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQN6Y2q001686 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:06:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQN5sTQ003663; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:05:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQN5qsS012917; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:05:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQN5nsS012777 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:05:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.bb.3931197d (18403) for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:05:36 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:05:36 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bodice 19th century dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/26/2003 4:18:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > What do you think, schould I make the bodice longer at the waist?? > Yes, I think it's short. Bodices were long in the 1840s with long points at the CF and straight across the back. Your point seems a good length but I would make the bodice so it's at least an inch or so BELOW your waist line. Another little detail when you get to the skirt: The skirt should have a dome shape created with petticoats. This looks best if there is real "spring" from where the skirt attaches to the waist. This can be helped by cartridge pleating the skirt...right around the point [a great period detail] with them kinda shallow in front, deeper at the sides and deep in back. { I mention this because if I remember correctly, the wedding dress you liked was flat pleated] Many skirts are folded at the top and left to hang inside up to 3 to 6" [and curved to fit the CF point....where you have to split the excess inside]. This adds the needed spring. The 1840s gowns we rented from "Little Dorrit" had this and it made a difference. If you don't want to do this or don't have the fabric, you can make an extra top ruffle to use as an underpinning. I did this for dresses we rented that didn't have the extra fabric inside. I just made a strip of organdy something like 8"X 4 yards, hemmed one end and put a casing in the other. Then ran a drawstring through it and tied it around the actress' waist. We'd put them over the petticoat unless they showed...then they went under it. I love this period. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 18:10:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQNAp2q001717 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:10:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNA7TQ003987; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:10:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNA4sS016351; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQN9vsS016157 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:09:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.a8.2596e509 (18403) for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:09:44 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:09:44 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 corset To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/26/2003 4:35:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > I am not going to follow the placing of the bones as the pattern says > because it isn't working. > I find that corsets from this period tend to have a boning pattern that's not complicated. It runs pretty much up and down in straight lines that avoids the bust gussets [but will go right through the hip gussets]. Bones tend to twist if they are being forced into a curved casing. Try straightening things out as much as possible. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 18:12:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQNCF2q001751 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:12:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNBfTQ004116; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:11:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNBPsS017443; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNBJsS017350 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:11:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id hAQNBHsA002701 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:11:17 -0500 Message-Id: <200311262311.hAQNBHsA002701@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:06:53 -0000 To: Historical Costume From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 Subject: [h-cost] Japanese prints X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Penny, Is the quilt Japanese because you're using the beautiful Japanese prints that are available these days? Or is there something else about it that's Japanese? I'm putting together a quilt that's made up of blocks made by different people. It's always fun to figure out the best way to arrange the blocks so they all look good together. There is a wide variety of fabrics and levels of complexity of the blocks, as well as the way the personalities of the makers are represented. One block is made to look like a Hawaiian shirt! Has anyone used the Japanese printed fabric in historic costume or any sort of clothing? The designs come from a lot of sources. I've seen a few that are made to look like warp prints, but I know a lot of Japanese dyeing is different than these fabrics. -Carol Penny Ladnier said: > Today, I pulled out the Japanese quilt that I started last year. I am hoping > my back holds out to finish it this year for my son's Christmas present. > The quilt is spread out all over the floor of my office. I have about 1/3 > of the top to finish. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 18:13:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQND72q001754 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:13:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNCUTQ004193; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:12:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNCOsS018123; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:12:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNBvsS017770 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1cc.14e67910 (4529) for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:11:45 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <1cc.14e67910.2cf68d30@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:11:44 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Costume Book To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/26/2003 9:50:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, brujne@creighton.edu writes: I just got a wonderful book(Merry Christmas to me! From me!)via Barnes & Noble's website. Ha! I'm glad I'm not the only one who does this! I just got Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'D at a spectacular price on ebay. I've been drooling over THAT particular book for over a year now. Now if I can just get my DH to start on his new Walsingham court suit, I'll be one happy camper! Laura, Choreographer; Props Master http://www.guildofstaugustine.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 18:37:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQNbm2q001893 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:37:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNbJTQ006071; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:37:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNbIms006361; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:37:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNbEms006320 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-47.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.47]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNacph004280 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:36:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031126152459.04c3dba0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:26:15 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wondering...here is a question that never got any takers....Cloak/Cape hood shapes.... In-Reply-To: <000201c3b466$2ca6f930$6501a8c0@SG01> References: <000f01c3aee4$8fccb540$6501a8c0@SG01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I am sure I have not seen the Kinsale Cloak hood shape any earlier than the >late 1800s..anyone know of it sooner? I love the hood, but I am afraid it >screams Victorian. I think the Kinsale cloak goes back to the mid- or late-1700s, but not earlier than I know of. Meanwhile, look in the Janet Arnold book that covers the Renaissance, because at least one of those cloaks has a hood. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 18:41:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAQNfX2q001911 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:41:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNdRTW006309; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:40:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNMcsS024046; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:22:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQNJusS022689 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.103] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A33B1F1E00B0; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:11:55 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c3b474$5dee2500$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><3FC4DD6D.2010009@comcast.net> <001b01c3b442$cafe23c0$cb6afea9@shooie> Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:23:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, for me, I am still providing costumes for local churches and schools along with the usual requests for historical clothing. Last week I had to put out the gorilla for a production of "Martian Chronicles" and then 20 Animals for an original production of "Noah's Ark". The week before it was a full set of 18th C stuff for "A Midsummer's Night Dream, minus the Faries. Next week it is "Amahl" for my church. This does not leave me much time to chat. Also the next two weekends are candelight house tours for the 18th and 19th houses in town. I have several costumes to get ready for these folk. See you in the New Year... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering > snip > > > > And the rest of you? ;) > > > > karen > > Busily stomping around familiar territory at the moment, I'm ususally full > of questions when I'm contemplating a new project, but right now I'm > repairing a couple of my dance costumes, re-working and finishing a couple > of others, and the rest is just finishing some Iron age garb for my husband. > :-) > > Sheridan > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 19:01:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAR0122q002062 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:01:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR00ATQ008598; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:00:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR008NV024444; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR003NV024344 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ACF7DE700C4; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:53:27 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ACEEA102E8; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:53:18 -0600 Message-ID: <01a201c3b479$293fdec0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200311262311.hAQNBHsA002701@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Japanese prints Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:58:05 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol, This quilt is made from Japanese prints. Actually I call the quilt a Japanese Cameo quilt. I bought most of the prints at Hancock Fabrics last year. Then I found a wonderful fabric site online. I tucked away the business card when moving my office. Lord only knows where it is now. I know I gave the URL last year when we talked about this quilt. The quilt pattern I am using makes the prints look like cameos. The figures I am using are dragons, Japanese men and women, fans, children, etc. I am now piecing together the rows of the quilts, although I still have four more rows to make. In the center of the quilt, I got a batik of a Japanese House at the Williamsburg Quilt Fest. This block will take up the space of four regular blocks. You can see some of my regular sized blocks at: http://www.costumegallery.com/Quilt/block1.jpg http://www.costumegallery.com/Quilt/block2.jpg The gold and black surrounding the cameo is bamboo print. The batik Japanese house centerpiece is here: http://www.islandbatik.com/paintings/swatches/p_sunset.htm This lady has some wonderful fabrics: http://www.islandbatik.com/ After this quilt, I have some stamped quilt blocks that need to be painted of Godey's ladies, children, and Victorian houses. Now that I have this nice big window seat in my office, the Godey's ladies quilt will look nice on it. I picked these up at the Williamsburg show a couple of years ago. Before someone asks... the company that makes these blocks is Tender Touches. I couldn't find a website but here is the mailing address: Tender Touches PO Box 486 Clearwater, KS 67026 Phone: 620-584-2554 Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 19:06:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAR06e2q002090 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:06:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR061TQ009037; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR060NV028509; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR05uNV028448 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:05:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-171.75.231.92.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.231.92] helo=Dan) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AP9fO-0002PD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:05:54 -0500 Message-ID: <008d01c3b47a$56d03000$0ab04b43@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200311262311.hAQNBHsA002701@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Japanese prints Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:06:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pierre and Sandy Pettinger did two full kimonos using nothing but, Japanese cotton prints. In fact there a picture in the costume gallery of them. ;-> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 5:06 PM Subject: [h-cost] Japanese prints > > Hi Penny, > > Is the quilt Japanese because you're using the beautiful Japanese prints > that are available these days? Or is there something else about it that's > Japanese? > > I'm putting together a quilt that's made up of blocks made by different > people. It's always fun to figure out the best way to arrange the blocks so > they all look good together. There is a wide variety of fabrics and levels of > complexity of the blocks, as well as the way the personalities of the makers > are represented. One block is made to look like a Hawaiian shirt! > > Has anyone used the Japanese printed fabric in historic costume or any > sort of clothing? The designs come from a lot of sources. I've seen a few > that are made to look like warp prints, but I know a lot of Japanese dyeing is > different than these fabrics. > > -Carol > > > Penny Ladnier said: > > Today, I pulled out the Japanese quilt that I started last year. I am hoping > > my back holds out to finish it this year for my son's Christmas present. > > The quilt is spread out all over the floor of my office. I have about 1/3 > > of the top to finish. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 19:48:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAR0mQ2q002308 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:48:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR0kLTQ011981; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:46:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR0kFNV023539; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:46:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR0kANV023496 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:46:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-65.58.148.68.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([65.58.148.68] helo=4gxif) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1APAIM-0005t4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:46:10 -0500 Message-ID: <01a701c3b47f$e3ee5700$44943a41@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031126135742.053d5360@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens' Fair - who/where? Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:46:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO CarolynKayta wrote: > > Sundays I will be Mrs. Creesy the Yankee clipper ship captain's wife, and > will be at the Adventurer's Club. ... At some point I will be > giving a short talk about the record-breaking 1851 voyage of the 'Flying > Cloud' (Mrs. Creesy was the navigator of her husband's ship). > She is just too cool for the room. Eleanor Prentiss Creesy, in 1851, navigated her husband's clipper, "The Flying Cloud", from NYC to San Francisco, around Cape Horn. Because of her study of ocean currents and weather phenomena, and her navigational, mathematical and dead reckoning skills, her time was only 89 days, beating the previous record of 200 days. She and her husband beat this record, again in "The Flying Cloud", three years later. Their record (for type of ship and route) stood until 1989. The lecture should be great. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 26 19:49:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAR0n72q002319 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:49:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR0lITQ012059; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:47:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR0lINV024208; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:47:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR0lFNV024184 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:47:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from KatHouse (ip24.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.24]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7776FC86 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:47:13 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:47:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wondering...here is a question that never got any takers....Cloak/Cape hood shapes.... Message-ID: <3FC4D904.24540.1CA9EE02@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20031126152459.04c3dba0@mail.frys.com> References: <000201c3b466$2ca6f930$6501a8c0@SG01> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I think the Kinsale cloak goes back to the mid- or late-1700s, but not > earlier than I know of. Meanwhile, look in the Janet Arnold book that > covers the Renaissance, because at least one of those cloaks has a > hood. There are mens ceremonial cloaks which have hoods, but there are also other mens garments with hoods too. Not so with the women's stuff. It's pretty rare to see hoods on women's clothing (as opposed to as a separate garment) at least in Europe until much later. (Kinsdale gets used a lot because it's pretty, but you are right that it screams Victorian, even though it is from earlier as Kayta mentions.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 01:03:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAR63r2q004377 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:03:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR63ETQ002476; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:03:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR638lN015177; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:03:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR62jlN014927 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:02:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-56-131.jps.net ([209.165.56.131] helo=pavilion) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1APFEh-0004EQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:02:44 -0800 Message-ID: <002c01c3b4ac$eef64f40$8338a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:08:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] The history of swimwear...... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hAR63r2q004377 Status: RO Well, here's topic up for grabs to keep Bjarne from leaving. Today I noticed a book on learning to swim from the EEBO collection and I was quite excited to see if it contained any woodcuts with bathing suits. In my head I was already to start making Elizabethan swimwear only to see that the illustrations were of men and women swimming in the nude. Of course!!! So, I'd be interested in hearing about the swimwear found in any one else's period of interest. Also, has anyone made any period swimming outfits or togs? Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 03:09:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAR89G2q024524 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:09:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR87LTQ008191; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:07:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR87HX8014809; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:07:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR87DX9014783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:07:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (acty3011.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.248.11]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hAR98p17019759 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:08:52 -0500 Message-ID: <3FC5B0A9.4060809@dandy.net> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:07:05 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nurse from the 17th century References: <3FC3194E.60700@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <3FC3194E.60700@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Deredere. I think everyone else covered the subject well, but to recap, if you were Catholic or from a Catholic part of the country, you might have been a member of an Order attached to that hospital. If you were Protestant, you were a lay person, and would have worn either regular clothes or something issued to you to wear, probably moreso fabric rather than a made-up set of clothes (and even if so, not made to a recogniseably different pattern than other clothing) . You did not specify which part of the 17th Cent., even though I do not believe it matters in this case, as nurse uniforms per se were still a long way off. BTW, at this time, unless you were a midwife or the assistant to a Physician or Barber-Surgeon (assumedly either a wife or daughter), you would have probably had only rudimentary knowledge of medicine, and your purpose would have been to assist the sick or injured (you know, feeding, bedpans, etc.). Also, the late 1600s saw a loss of stability of the structure of women's medicine for women as the male-dominated medical profession took over more and more of the functions of the midwives, etc. It is an interesting area of study. Good Luck with your project. Mike T. Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > What would a 17th century nurse from a hospital have looked like? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 03:26:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAR8Q32q030475 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:26:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR8PTTQ008924; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:25:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR8PSX8023087; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:25:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR8POX8023031 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:25:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A36622A90084; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:18:46 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A35F3500190; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:18:39 -0600 Message-ID: <027b01c3b4bf$b9470b60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002c01c3b4ac$eef64f40$8338a5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The history of swimwear...... Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:23:21 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have put some period articles online from 1870-1923 for swimwear. Its one of those things that interest me, like hairstyles. I have several more articles to put online about swimwear.... and hairstyles. But I don't want people to think I am obsessed.... well, maybe obsessed with hairstyle history. I generally add more swim suit articles in the spring and summer. Anyways, both areas are in our subscription area of the library. You can look over the titles of the swim articles. http://www.costumegallery.com/swimsuits.htm The AP newspaper article that is floating around now since August, quotes me about ladies swimwear history during this period. I can't provide a link because of my contract with the AP, and because h-costume archives can be searched through search engines. But if you do a search on google.com with the search words "Penny Ladnier swim" you will see the article. It is the 3rd link down. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 04:27:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAR9RD2q019299 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:27:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR9QcTQ011535; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:26:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR9QZIb019938; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:26:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR9QWIb019902 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:26:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hAR9SEA16972.; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:28:14 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:26:30 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:25:57 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [possible Spam]::[h-cost] The history of swimwear...... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AFAIK men swam in the nude until the mid-19th century. (Rev. Francis Kilvert, the diarist, was most annoyed at being made to wear bathing drawers on a visit to the seaside in the 1870s) I had to smile at the famous "wet shirt" scene in the BBC's "Pride and Prejudice" for this reason! In the late 17th century, Celia Fiennes describes going into the Roman bath at Bath wearing a voluminous smock made of a stiff material "so your shape is not seen". >>> Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com 11/27/03 6:08:51 AM >>> Well, here's topic up for grabs to keep Bjarne from leaving. Today I noticed a book on learning to swim from the EEBO collection and I was quite excited to see if it contained any woodcuts with bathing suits. In my head I was already to start making Elizabethan swimwear only to see that the illustrations were of men and women swimming in the nude. Of course!!! So, I'd be interested in hearing about the swimwear found in any one else's period of interest. Also, has anyone made any period swimming outfits or togs? Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 04:34:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAR9YI2q022108 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:34:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR9XjTQ011800; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:33:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR9XiIb022837; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:33:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR9XfIb022811 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:33:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-47.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.47]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR9XcCE003837 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:33:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031127013156.0502aa30@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:33:29 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] The history of swimwear...... In-Reply-To: <002c01c3b4ac$eef64f40$8338a5d1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Well, here's topic up for grabs to keep Bjarne from leaving. Today I >noticed a book on learning to swim from the EEBO collection and I was >quite excited to see if it contained any woodcuts with bathing suits. In >my head I was already to start making Elizabethan swimwear only to see >that the illustrations were of men and women swimming in the nude. Of >course!!! So, I'd be interested in hearing about the swimwear found in >any one else's period of interest. Also, has anyone made any period >swimming outfits or togs? Somebody I knew once wanted several of us to make Dickens' Fair period bathing costumes. At that time Dickens' Fair was held on a pier in the Fisherman's Wharf part of San Francisco - we were going to 'streak' Dickens' Fair in our bathing costumes. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 05:00:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARA0D2q028351 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:00:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR9xaTQ012791; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:59:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR9xZX6004134; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:59:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAR9xWX6004114 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:59:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-97-152.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.152])3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id AOO06251; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:59:27 GMT Message-ID: <002501c3b4cd$22c3f9b0$98614ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031127013156.0502aa30@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The history of swimwear...... Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:59:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Today I >noticed a book on learning to swim from the EEBO collection What was the book please ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 07:16:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARCGq2q014581 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:16:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARCEtTQ019634; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:14:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARCEpVZ007002; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:14:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [199.170.68.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARCEnVZ006976 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:14:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hARCKkDP002369; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:20:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:20:45 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne! You can't leave now that I've suddenly become motivated to do some embroidery! Actually, I'm not very good at it and have always been searching for a decent book on the subject...And then, if everything goes according to plan, I'll be getting a bobbin lace making kit for Christmas, which I will not doubtedly start fiddling with on Christmas day. These days, I've been busy with Christmas present projects and trying to make myself a couple new things to wear (because at the moment, I'm completely clueless about sewing and so it's going to take a while...) And I'm trying to soak up the creative and much experienced goodness from the h-costume list here. Which means, if you go, Bjarne, the list will not be *quite* so creative and experienced and there will be therefore less for me to soak up. So stay. Please. I'll shut up now. Kate ceu@shaysnet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 07:17:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARCHo2q014587 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:17:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARCG0TQ019695; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARCFxVZ007600; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARCFvVZ007523 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:15:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78BFC1B4436 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:15:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 23939-10 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:15:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CC6C1B4AC6 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:15:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <015001c3b4e0$3114b320$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FC514E4.3070807@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] wool vendor Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:15:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] wool vendor > Robin Netherton wrote: > > > On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > > > > >>I just won an eBay auction for five yards of dark green wool from a > >>seller whose ID was en5001. > > > > That's Ephraim Neuman. I bought the red wool for my new fitted dress from > > him. He mucked up my delivery, but when I did get it it was definitely > > worth the wait, and the price was excellent. Well, that's good to know! I won't have time to start any new projects till after Christmas, so a wait on the shipping is no biggie right now. Just happy to know that I got a decent deal! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 08:01:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARD1t2q014717 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:01:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARCxwTQ021897; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:59:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARCxuJQ000390; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:59:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta1.sucs.soton.ac.uk (mta1.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARCxqJQ000375 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:59:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk (yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.19]) hARCxf3A003969 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:59:41 GMT Received: (from nobody@localhost) by yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16326 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:59:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk: nobody set sender to hbgd103@soton.ac.uk using -f To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wondering...here is a question that never got any takers....Cloak/Cape hood shapes.... Message-ID: <1069937977.3fc5f53946d66@webmail.soton.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:59:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Hilary Davidson References: <000201c3b466$2ca6f930$6501a8c0@SG01> In-Reply-To: <000201c3b466$2ca6f930$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Originating-IP: 152.78.128.97 X-ISS-MailScanner: Believed to be clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, First posting on this list for me though I have been lurking around the excellent archives for reference material for some time. Re: Hoods - The Gallery of Costume at PLatt Hall in Manchester has a really Little Red Riding Hood looking cloak with Kinsale-esque hood from the early 19th C., Regency I think. I can't remember which book it's in, but perhaps they might be able to direct you further via e-mail. Cheers, Hilary Quoting "Saragrace T. Knauf" : > Hey, I'd even be interested in opinions or remembrances even if no one > has > an overall view point....... > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On > Behalf Of Saragrace T. Knauf > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:32 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Cloak/Cape hood shapes.... > > Anyone have a handle on how hood shapes developed over the years? I > am > interested in anything from anywhere (Europe, but influences are okay) > from > around 1400-1600. The only ones that stand out in my mind are the > duck > billed (almost look like ball caps) Flemish ones, but that is because I > have > been 'doing' Breughel garb all summer. I think I remember a pointed > one > somewhere with a tassle on the end.but that may have been a wizard > dream. > > I am sure I have not seen the Kinsale Cloak hood shape any earlier than > the > late 1800s..anyone know of it sooner? I love the hood, but I am afraid > it > screams Victorian. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 08:44:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARDiP2q014785 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:44:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARDgZTQ023842; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 06:42:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARDgXJQ021561; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 06:42:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta2.sucs.soton.ac.uk (mta2.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARDgUJQ021544 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 06:42:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk (yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.19]) hARDUfF4007608 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:30:41 GMT Received: (from nobody@localhost) by yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18285 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:30:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk: nobody set sender to hbgd103@soton.ac.uk using -f To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <1069939837.3fc5fc7d9795a@webmail.soton.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:30:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Hilary Davidson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Originating-IP: 152.78.128.97 X-ISS-MailScanner: Believed to be clean Subject: [h-cost] 1810 needlelace reticule X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hiya, A friend of mine is researching this very sweet and small article, made of coloures silks, and teensy tiny steel beads and is not finding a lot on it. Does anyone have any info on production/use/interesting anectodes for things like this? It's so small there's not a lot you could actually put in it, about 7 in x 2 in wide. ta muchly, hilary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 10:45:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARFje2q016517 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:45:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARFhiTQ000401; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:43:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARFhgPA022849; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:43:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARFhdPA022728 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:43:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a210.in-tch.com [66.62.107.10]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hARFMGV21706 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:22:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FC61C44.BBD3C1CD@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:46:12 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering References: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3FC4DD6D.2010009@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, Bjarne! I've just not been in a chatty mood, lately, and I've had a lot of things going on lately--a sick kitty undergoing numerous vet visits, loads of overtime at work, etc. I've been getting in some spinning (for holiday gifts), and I've been taking a weaving class. My first project (a scarf done in tabby weave, with a chenille weft) came off the loom yesterday, and I'll be working on the warp for my next one (dish towels for holiday gifts) today. Then I'm going to tackle something done in a cotton/linen blend, and THEN I'm going to start playing with some medieval weaves. OCC: I'm making an outfit for an event in January--10th c. Norse. It'll be my best approximation of what a woman in 10th c. Dublin would have worn. I'm hand-sewing it, so if anyone hears strangled screams coming from NW Montana over the next couple of months, it's probably me . It has an off-white linen undergown, a brownish-grey linen herringbone twill overgown (very drapy, actually looks like wool), and a deep-red wool twill apron-gown. Oh, and a tabby-silk coif for my head. I'd really like to put some embroidery on it, but haven't been able to document what I wanted to do...*sigh* Dunno about shoes yet, although I've cruised Marc Carlson's website.... --sue Ciorstan wrote: > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hello, > > I am considering maybe to sigm off this list. I think perhaps it is no > > longer interresting to be on because hardly any ever ask for things anymore. > > What is happening? > > Have you all gone coma? > > Well, the Americans have the excuse that this week is a major national > holiday, with a four day weekend, which happens only once a year, > reliably. This week is Thanksgiving. There is a lot of traveling going > on right now as it's a major family get-together. > > And the rest of you? ;) > > karen > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 10:57:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARFvr2q016864 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:57:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARFqITQ000944; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:52:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARFqHPA027604; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:52:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARFqFPA027590 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:52:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be94.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.148]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AB571262B08 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:52:14 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001e01c3b4fe$c3a502d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:54:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] bodice 19th century dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deredere, I have only made 1 dress from that period, so my skills and knollege isnt bright neither but, I think you could use this bodice, to me it looks ok, also at the center front foto, your hip curve starts where the bodice ends, so i think it is all right for you to use this. Why do you think the bodice looks two wide at the front? To me it is fine, remember they were not so scared to show a nice clevage those days :-) I think it is ok, also considered you have little time and you dont have to be that much perfectionist. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 11:07:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARG7O2q017297 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:07:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARG5VTQ001719; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:05:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARG5TMO004781; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:05:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARG5QMO004765 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:05:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be94.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.148]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A6C505EE275 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 17:05:24 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002e01c3b500$9b894d40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 17:07:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] Tudor time bobbin lace. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As Kimiko answered your question, i say that Neu Modelbuch from Germany mostly have needle laces. You must remember lace was a new invention those days, and needle lace came first, bobbin lace later. The mid 1500, years bobbin lace started to be used. But in a neckline on a Henry VIII dress, you could use a bobbin lace, if it is made in gold or silver thread. It would be much nicer, than if you baught a machine made trim, and it would look more autentic, also if you embellish your lace with a thick gimp thread in gold or silver. Your Banquet sounds so lovely, i have always dreamed of participating in such an event, especially, if there is live music, i love gay renaissance music. Have fun!!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 11:47:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARGlW2q018268 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:47:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARGjdTQ003691; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:45:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARGjZMO024615; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:45:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARGjWMO024515 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:45:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a254.in-tch.com [66.62.107.54]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hARGOAV15825 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:24:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FC62AC6.2F61B233@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:48:06 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] just wondering References: <20031126.133256.2004.0.Cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And I have a job, but an otherwise quiet life (no immediate family, etc.). So I'm able to catch up with emails at home, once I've fed the beasts (I have four cats). No one complains if I eat dinner in front of the computer, or ignore the dishes, or whatever. And Happy Turkey Day to you, too, Arlys! --sue Cynthia J Ley wrote: > > On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:59:30 -0500 "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" > writes: > > > However, I have always secretly wondered how everyone on this list > > seemed > > to have so much time to chat away merrily--and still > > costumne/work/take care > > of homes! I'm afraid I am not nearly as good at 'multitasking' as > > all of you > > seem to be:) > > I have a great Life. I just don't have a Job. ;) > > Happy Thanksgiving, American pals! > > Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 12:38:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARHcs2q019090 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:38:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHaxTQ007007; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:36:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHavAq020021; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:36:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHatAq019961 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:36:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0950.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.183]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD51819FDC9 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:36:49 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FC6377C.7080204@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:42:20 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] bodice 19th century dress References: <001e01c3b4fe$c3a502d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Deredere, >I have only made 1 dress from that period, so my skills and knollege isnt >bright neither but, >I think you could use this bodice, to me it looks ok, also at the center >front foto, your hip curve starts where the bodice ends, so i think it is >all right for you to use this. >Why do you think the bodice looks two wide at the front? To me it is fine, >remember they were not so scared to show a nice clevage those days :-) > I alredy adjusted it before I took the picture. It fell of my shoulders... >I think it is ok, also considered you have little time and you dont have to >be that much perfectionist. > Unfortionally I am a perfectionist ;-) Tomorrow I have to start on the real dress. I made the body a bit longer and I'll see what happends. I have finished my corset but today I don't have time to see if it really fits. But it looks much better than it did before. Placed the boning where I thought would work best. Greetings, Deredere > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 12:41:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARHfE2q019094 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:41:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHdCTQ007176; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:39:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHdBAq021141; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:39:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHd8Aq021042 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:39:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0950.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.183]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E2319FAE7 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:39:03 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FC63802.5000108@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:44:34 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nurse from the 17th century References: <3FC3194E.60700@kabelfoon.nl> <3FC5B0A9.4060809@dandy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the information!!!!!! Now I have an idea of what to expect. I really like this part " you would have probably had only rudimentary knowledge of medicine, and your purpose would have been to assist the sick or injured (you know, feeding, bedpans, etc.)" :-) Greetings, Deredere michael tartaglio wrote: > Hi, Deredere. I think everyone else covered the subject well, but to > recap, if you were Catholic or from a Catholic part of the country, > you might have been a member of an Order attached to that hospital. If > you were Protestant, you were a lay person, and would have worn either > regular clothes or something issued to you to wear, probably moreso > fabric rather than a made-up set of clothes (and even if so, not made > to a recogniseably different pattern than other clothing) . You did > not specify which part of the 17th Cent., even though I do not believe > it matters in this case, as nurse uniforms per se were still a long > way off. BTW, at this time, unless you were a midwife or the assistant > to a Physician or Barber-Surgeon (assumedly either a wife or > daughter), you would have probably had only rudimentary knowledge of > medicine, and your purpose would have been to assist the sick or > injured (you know, feeding, bedpans, etc.). Also, the late 1600s saw a > loss of stability of the structure of women's medicine for women as > the male-dominated medical profession took over more and more of the > functions of the midwives, etc. It is an interesting area of study. > Good Luck with your project. Mike T. > > Deredere Galbraith wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> What would a 17th century nurse from a hospital have looked like? >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 12:43:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARHhO2q019110 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:43:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHfWTQ007317; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:41:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHfVAq022392; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:41:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHfSAq022324 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:41:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0950.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.183]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F9BA19FB58 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:41:23 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FC6388E.6080701@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:46:54 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bodice 19th century dress References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks!! This will help me a lot. Greetings, Deredere AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 11/26/2003 4:18:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, >triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > > > >>What do you think, schould I make the bodice longer at the waist?? >> >> >> > >Yes, I think it's short. Bodices were long in the 1840s with long points at >the CF and straight across the back. Your point seems a good length but I would >make the bodice so it's at least an inch or so BELOW your waist line. > >Another little detail when you get to the skirt: > >The skirt should have a dome shape created with petticoats. This looks best >if there is real "spring" from where the skirt attaches to the waist. This can >be helped by cartridge pleating the skirt...right around the point [a great >period detail] with them kinda shallow in front, deeper at the sides and deep in >back. { I mention this because if I remember correctly, the wedding dress you >liked was flat pleated] Many skirts are folded at the top and left to hang >inside up to 3 to 6" [and curved to fit the CF point....where you have to split >the excess inside]. This adds the needed spring. The 1840s gowns we rented >from "Little Dorrit" had this and it made a difference. >If you don't want to do this or don't have the fabric, you can make an extra >top ruffle to use as an underpinning. I did this for dresses we rented that >didn't have the extra fabric inside. I just made a strip of organdy something >like 8"X 4 yards, hemmed one end and put a casing in the other. Then ran a >drawstring through it and tied it around the actress' waist. We'd put them over the >petticoat unless they showed...then they went under it. > >I love this period. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 12:49:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARHnQ2q019134 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:49:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHkkTQ007625; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:46:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHkiAq025201; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:46:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHkfAq025138 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:46:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17198 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:12:26 -0600 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:12:26 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re:[h-cost] The history of swimwear...... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 27 Nov 2003, Kate M Bunting wrote: > AFAIK men swam in the nude until the mid-19th century. (Rev. Francis > Kilvert, the diarist, was most annoyed at being made to wear bathing > drawers on a visit to the seaside in the 1870s) I had to smile at the > famous "wet shirt" scene in the BBC's "Pride and Prejudice" for this > reason! There's another costume movie with a more realistic scene -- one of the Merchant-Ivory productions, maybe "Room with a View"? -- in which a group of women on a walk happen past the swimming hole where their male acquaintances (including the local pastor) are swimming nude. Hilarity ensues. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 12:56:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARHu72q019164 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:56:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHsITQ008080; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:54:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHsHAq028853; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:54:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARHsCAq028807 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:54:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17256 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:19:57 -0600 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:19:57 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wool vendor In-Reply-To: <015001c3b4e0$3114b320$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 27 Nov 2003, Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > > That's Ephraim Neuman. I bought the red wool for my new fitted dress > from > > > him. He mucked up my delivery, but when I did get it it was definitely > > > worth the wait, and the price was excellent. > > Well, that's good to know! I won't have time to start any new projects till > after Christmas, so a wait on the shipping is no biggie right now. Just > happy to know that I got a decent deal! To be more precise: After I sent my payment, he wrote me and said whoops, they couldn't find the wool (or were out of it) and offered me my money back or my choice of a different fabric. I was devastated and said so -- I was on a deadline and needed *that* fabic and color. Then, whoops, the piece mysteriously turned up, and he sent it. When I got it it was actually six yards, one more than the five I'd bid on and paid for, but the last yard or so had a couple of holes. I figure it was probably the end of the bolt, and I wonder if he'd put up one too many auctions for that bolt and tried to withhold mine to give to another bidder. If so, someone else lost out. There were a few spots on that piece that had slightly paler dye -- visible only if you looked closely, or only on one side of the fabric. I have seen this on wool many times, not just on "seconds," so I don't fault the dealer for it. As with any piece of fabric, look over the whole thing, both sides, in good light, before you plan your cutting. When I find irregularities, I typically chalk around them, or baste around them so I can tell from both sides where the trouble spot is. Then I can usually cut to avoid the spots or place them in inconspicuous locations. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 14:27:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARJRK2q028898 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:27:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARJPSTQ013365; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:25:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARJPPhc017017; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:25:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARJPMhc016993 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:25:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be94.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.148]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B72BA47FFFD for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:25:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002a01c3b51c$8abc16c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:27:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] swim wear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate wrote: AFAIK men swam in the nude until the mid-19th century. (Rev. Francis Kilvert, the diarist, was most annoyed at being made to wear bathing drawers on a visit to the seaside in the 1870s) I had to smile at the famous "wet shirt" scene in the BBC's "Pride and Prejudice" for this reason! In the late 17th century, Celia Fiennes describes going into the Roman bath at Bath wearing a voluminous smock made of a stiff material "so your shape is not seen". Are you sure there is such a scene in Pride and Prejudice, well i missed that, i must go and look more precisely, In Northanger Abbey there also is a scene in the roman bath at Bath where the ladies wears a full regency dress in the Bath or rather a long smock. They also carries a strange wooden tray round their necks with a ribbon wich nobody i have asked ever knew what was! I have seen a 17th century print from the same famous Bath where ladies is bathing fully dressed and men are bathing in the adam costume. And obviously it is quite the tone to do so even though ladies are pressent. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 14:32:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARJWt2q029047 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:32:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARJV1TQ013636; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARJV0hc019953; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:31:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARJUvhc019912 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:30:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be94.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.148]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 534A75EE314 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:30:56 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003201c3b51d$5549ba00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:33:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] mens swim wear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And apropos this topic. I often am going to a beach north of Copenhagen in the summertime. Many inhabitats of Copenhagen goes there when the weather is fine and the temperature is high. Here it is devided, the north part is for the nudists, including me, the south is for swimwear. I prefer to bath in the nude, and i dont feel ashamed of telling you this. I prefer to be tanned all over and also on my butt. (Laughs) Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 14:42:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARJg92q029136 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:42:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARJeGTQ014222; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:40:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARJeFhc025183; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:40:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARJeDhc025173 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:40:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be94.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.148]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4EE715EE33F for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:40:08 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005b01c3b51e$9ecf06c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:42:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] nurse from 17th century X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you seen the movie erheh? in danish translation it is something like, The King, His Mistress and His Servant, or something like that. It is London in the 1660ies and it is about a doctor who cures the Kings dog. Perhaps there is , there should be a picture of a nurse there, off cause it is only a movie, but, Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 15:29:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARKTP2q030617 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:29:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARKRUTQ017169; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:27:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARKRSlX022664; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:27:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav35.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARKRPlX022597 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:27:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:27:20 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav35.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:27:19 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003201c3b51d$5549ba00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mens swim wear Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:27:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2003 20:27:20.0138 (UTC) FILETIME=[DB6E12A0:01C3B524] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I prefer to bath in the nude, and i dont feel ashamed of telling you this. I > prefer to be tanned all over and also on my butt. (Laughs) I like swimming in the nude simply because I love the feeling of water on my skin. Most of the times it would be uncomfortable because of the taboo there is around it, though. I'm all for reserved places for swimming in the nude, but I'm very sensitive about people going around shirtless - I'm probably just old-fashioned. The street, or the dining table, are not, in my mind, appropriate places to go shirtless, even if you're a man. Just like I thought, when I visited Paris, that the middle of downtown, even if it's on the side of a river, is not the right place to tan your breasts... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 16:48:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARLmT2q031620 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:48:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARLjQTQ021047; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:45:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARLjL0i004609; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:45:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARLj90i004505 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:45:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4060436F61 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:45:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1APTwg-0004GV-00 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:45:06 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] nurse from 17th century In-Reply-To: <005b01c3b51e$9ecf06c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <005b01c3b51e$9ecf06c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:45:06 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: > Have you seen the movie erheh? in danish translation it is something like, > The King, His Mistress and His Servant, or something like that. > It is London in the 1660ies and it is about a doctor who cures the Kings > dog. > Perhaps there is , there should be a picture of a nurse there, off cause it > is only a movie, but, I think the movie is "Restoration", based on the book of the same name. The only nurses there are Quaker women involved in the running of a mental institution, and they wear typical Quaker dress. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 16:57:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARLv32q031737 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:57:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARLtCTQ021437; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARLtBbd009558; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:55:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARLt9bd009491 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:55:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2003112721550301500pmhe2e>; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:55:03 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:54:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] mens swim wear From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" > but I'm very sensitive about people going around shirtless - I'm probably > just old-fashioned. The street, or the dining table, are not, in my mind, > appropriate places to go shirtless, even if you're a man. Once in a while, all this historical immersion makes me forget a bit which time I'm in -- and one day last summer I was walking down a street lined with nice 19th century houses and overhung with lovely green-leaved trees -- and saw a man running up the lane in nothing but a pair of shorts and some odd laced-up shoes. It dawned on me that in almost any other time, such a sight would have required calling in the authorities -- for surely the poor naked fellow had gone mad, or been robbed by highwaymen. Of course it was just a jogger taking advantage of the lovely day! ;-) Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 17:08:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARM8S2q031784 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 17:08:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARM6dTQ022066; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:06:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARM6cbd015870; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:06:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from web80407.mail.yahoo.com (web80407.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hARM6Xbd015807 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:06:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031127220627.17895.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.114.230.112] by web80407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:06:27 PST Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:06:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Fleury To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200311262337.hAQNbgmt006698@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] wondering X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, Don't go! Though my favorite period is Elizabethan, I always plan to venture into 18th and 19th century "someday". Knowing that knowledgeable and helpful people like you are out there is a comfort! Knowing that when I do get around to it the experts will still be there keeps the inspiration alive. Jennifer Jennifer Fleury Assistant Property Master "Century City" Universal Network Television _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 18:29:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARNTk2q032061 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:29:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARNRiTQ026383; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:27:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARNRfSp024951; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:27:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hARNRcSq024925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:27:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hARNSuUZ008101 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:28:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hARNSuFl008099 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:28:56 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:28:56 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311271828.56118.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 27 November 2003 07:20 am, Catherine Ussailis wrote: > Bjarne! [snip] > These days, I've been busy with Christmas present projects and trying > to make myself a couple new things to wear (because at the moment, I'm > completely clueless about sewing and so it's going to take a while...) > And I'm trying to soak up the creative and much experienced goodness > from the h-costume list here. Which means, if you go, Bjarne, the list > will not be *quite* so creative and experienced and there will be > therefore less for me to soak up. > So stay. Please. I agree with Kate, Bjarne. Your participation enriches the list for all of us. As for the list being a bit slow, lately, well, lists are like that. I participate on a number of mailing lists, and even the ones that are the most active have their slow periods. That's why I like to be on more than one. Think of a slow period on h-costume as a period when you can get caught up with other important things in your life. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 19:03:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS03P2q032154 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 19:03:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS01bTQ028217; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 17:01:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS01acS011008; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 17:01:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS01YcT010992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 17:01:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAS02rUZ008211 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 19:02:53 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAS02rQ7008209 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 19:02:53 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 19:02:52 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3FC4DD6D.2010009@comcast.net> <3FC61C44.BBD3C1CD@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3FC61C44.BBD3C1CD@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311271902.52646.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 27 November 2003 10:46 am, Sue Clemenger wrote: [snip] > OCC: I'm making an outfit for an event in January--10th c. Norse. It'll > be my best approximation of what a woman in 10th c. Dublin would have > worn. I'm hand-sewing it, so if anyone hears strangled screams coming > from NW Montana over the next couple of months, it's probably me . I quite understand. > It has an off-white linen undergown, a brownish-grey linen herringbone > twill overgown (very drapy, actually looks like wool), and a deep-red > wool twill apron-gown. Oh, and a tabby-silk coif for my head. I'd really > like to put some embroidery on it, but haven't been able to document > what I wanted to do...*sigh* Dunno about shoes yet, although I've > cruised Marc Carlson's website.... Yum. Sounds great. Good luck! I've embarked on a project to recreate a costume based on 10th century Birka finds. You can see a picture of a reproduction, from the National Museum of Antiquities in Stockholm (I think that's the English name; it's called "Historiska Museet" on the site) here: http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/drakter/vkvinna/vkvinfr.htm The Museum actually has made the pattern available for these and other reproductions as a PDF online from this page: http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/draktmonster.htm Yes, it's all in Swedish, but I think I understand enough to do a fair replica of the clothing ("Klipp 2" and "Framstycke" and "Bakstycke" seem pretty clear, for example), even though I can't understand enough Swedish to make out most of the information about why the reproduction was designed in the way it was. :-( On the other hand, this is the first suggested reproduction that makes sense to me out of *why* Viking women might have wanted to pleat their linen smocks. Usually, none or very little of a smock shows, so I couldn't figure out why anybody would ever bother to pleat one. However, the theory put forth here apparently is that the length of hem and sleeves (and neckline) on all the layers was graduated, so that there would be white frills showing at the wrists and hem. The effect is extremely pretty, and I hope I can recreate it effectively. I plan to aim for a higher level of authenticity in this costume than I usually attempt. First, I plan to obtain 100% linen for the smock, and pure wool for the gown and apron-dress. (I'm looking for a diamond twill for the apron-dress, but the only fabrics I've seen that come close to that kind of broken twill are hemp blends, so I may compromise on herringbone). I've chosen metallic trims that strike me as plausible approximations of period metallic weaves, since I'm not nearly good enough (or patient enough) at tablet-weaving to undertake a period design myself. I attempted to run some of the pages through a web translator, and although the results were patchy they seemed to indicate that the inset on the gown was silk, so I intend to look for a fairly heavy silk tabby for the inset and use the remainder for the headcloth. (I hope to find silk cord in a suitable color to trim the headcloth with, but may end up compromising on rayon, we'll see). My present intent is to use the same color scheme as the Museum's version, except I hope to find a alternative to the bright red for the apron-dress because I don't look well in that sort of red. I was thinking about pale blue, but that doesn't seem appropriate somehow. Of course, if I use a lighter blue for the tunic I can use a darker blue for the apron-dress.... (I haven't bought any fabric yet, fortunately.) I'm not sure I'm ready to emulate you by handsewing the entire thing, but I will probably at least hand finish the sleeve-ends and necklines, (especially the sleeve ends because my wrists are so small it's easier that way). -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 19:24:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS0Ok2q032214 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 19:24:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS0MuTQ029446; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 17:22:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS0MscS020627; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 17:22:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.26]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS0MqcS020575 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 17:22:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from there (d14-69-189-68.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.68.189]) hAS0MlA22810 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:22:47 -0600 Message-Id: <200311280022.hAS0MlA22810@pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michelle Plumb To: Historical Costume Subject: Re:[h-cost] The history of swimwear...... Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 19:24:58 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > There's another costume movie with a more realistic scene -- one of the > Merchant-Ivory productions, maybe "Room with a View"? -- in which a group > of women on a walk happen past the swimming hole where their male > acquaintances (including the local pastor) are swimming nude. Hilarity > ensues. I saw that! Hysterical! First time I ever saw a nekkid vicar. ;-) Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 22:00:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS30k2q032515 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:00:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS2wgTQ008402; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 19:58:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS2wc0v006913; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 19:58:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAS2wa0v006901 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 19:58:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031128025836.83785.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.3.157.157] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:58:36 PST Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:58:36 -0800 (PST) From: Kathy Hensley Subject: Re: [h-cost] nurse from 17th century To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <005b01c3b51e$9ecf06c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's sounds like "Reformation" starring Robert Downey Jr. and Meg Ryan has a part in it. If that's the movie you're talking about, I don't remember anybody wearing any special nurses or doctor clothing. He was personal physician to Charles I, II, or III, or rather like you said, the kings dog. This was not a very sanitary time in history. Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:Have you seen the movie erheh? in danish translation it is something like, The King, His Mistress and His Servant, or something like that. It is London in the 1660ies and it is about a doctor who cures the Kings dog. Perhaps there is , there should be a picture of a nurse there, off cause it is only a movie, but, Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 22:23:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS3N12q032534 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:23:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS3L7TQ009340; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:21:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS3L60v017077; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:21:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS3L30v017036 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m195.in-tch.com [216.166.191.195]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAS2xdV09835 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 19:59:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FC6BFB8.B988A7F3@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:23:36 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering References: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <200311271902.52646.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooooh! Way cool! Do you mind if I forward this to some friends? and a couple of SCA lists? --sue Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > > I've embarked on a project to recreate a costume based on 10th century Birka > finds. You can see a picture of a reproduction, from the National Museum of > Antiquities in Stockholm (I think that's the English name; it's called > "Historiska Museet" on the site) here: > > http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/drakter/vkvinna/vkvinfr.htm > > The Museum actually has made the pattern available for these and other > reproductions as a PDF online from this page: > > http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/draktmonster.htm > > Yes, it's all in Swedish, but I think I understand enough to do a fair replica > of the clothing ("Klipp 2" and "Framstycke" and "Bakstycke" seem pretty > clear, for example), even though I can't understand enough Swedish to make > out most of the information about why the reproduction was designed in the > way it was. :-( > > On the other hand, this is the first suggested reproduction that makes sense > to me out of *why* Viking women might have wanted to pleat their linen > smocks. Usually, none or very little of a smock shows, so I couldn't figure > out why anybody would ever bother to pleat one. However, the theory put > forth here apparently is that the length of hem and sleeves (and neckline) on > all the layers was graduated, so that there would be white frills showing at > the wrists and hem. The effect is extremely pretty, and I hope I can > recreate it effectively. > > I plan to aim for a higher level of authenticity in this costume than I > usually attempt. First, I plan to obtain 100% linen for the smock, and pure > wool for the gown and apron-dress. (I'm looking for a diamond twill for the > apron-dress, but the only fabrics I've seen that come close to that kind of > broken twill are hemp blends, so I may compromise on herringbone). I've > chosen metallic trims that strike me as plausible approximations of period > metallic weaves, since I'm not nearly good enough (or patient enough) at > tablet-weaving to undertake a period design myself. I attempted to run some > of the pages through a web translator, and although the results were patchy > they seemed to indicate that the inset on the gown was silk, so I intend to > look for a fairly heavy silk tabby for the inset and use the remainder for > the headcloth. (I hope to find silk cord in a suitable color to trim the > headcloth with, but may end up compromising on rayon, we'll see). > > My present intent is to use the same color scheme as the Museum's version, > except I hope to find a alternative to the bright red for the apron-dress > because I don't look well in that sort of red. I was thinking about pale > blue, but that doesn't seem appropriate somehow. Of course, if I use a > lighter blue for the tunic I can use a darker blue for the apron-dress.... (I > haven't bought any fabric yet, fortunately.) > > I'm not sure I'm ready to emulate you by handsewing the entire thing, but I > will probably at least hand finish the sleeve-ends and necklines, (especially > the sleeve ends because my wrists are so small it's easier that way). > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 23:01:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS4102q032589 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:01:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS3x4TQ011523; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS3x2BE006717; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS3x0BE006704 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.143] (pm5-143.eos.net [205.133.149.143]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS3wuug015234 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:58:58 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:00:17 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200311261749.hAQHnohh024111@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] copyright compliance center X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To all interested: I don't want to open the copyright can of worms again, but I thought this might be useful to some of you. At a recent convention I picked up a brochure from the Copyright Clearance Center. This is non-profit (I think) organization that helps get permission to use copyrighted works in "virtually any format" including web sites, CD-ROMs, and DVDs. The person from the organization told me it was formed to help people comply with copyright laws, because so many people want to get permission but don't know how to even begin. They claim to be simple and fast, and to serve more than 10,000 corporations and subsidiaries, law firms, libraries, academic insitutions, copy shops, and U.S. government agencies. Their web site is www.copyright.com and you can do everything over the web. They offer international as well as U.S. services. Just an FYI. I have never used them. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 23:22:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS4ME2q032635 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:22:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS4KQTQ012628; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:20:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS4KPBE016921; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:20:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS4KIBF016829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:20:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAS4LbUZ008977 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:21:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAS4LbfL008975 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:21:37 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:21:37 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <200311271902.52646.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FC6BFB8.B988A7F3@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3FC6BFB8.B988A7F3@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311272321.37222.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 27 November 2003 10:23 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Ooooh! Way cool! Do you mind if I forward this to some friends? and a > couple of SCA lists? [my original post, summarizine my upcoming Birka garb project, cut to spare electrons] I assume, Sue, that what you really want to post is the links to the Historiska Museet site. Yes, please pass them on; it is an incredibly cool site, even for those of us who can't read Swedish. I can't imagine why you'd want to pass on my blather about my plans for making use of the Historiska Museet patterns, but if you want to, feel free to do that as well. :-) You may also want to pass on some of the comments and URLs I provide below. The Historiska Museet site also has patterns for Viking male garb. According to the text (as best as I can guess what the Swedish is saying), this one is based on finds from a 10th c site called Malardalen, with gaps filled in using information from finds at Birka, Hedeby and York. Patterns for this outfit (including, surprisingly, the pouch) appear on the PDF page: http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/drakter/vherre/vherrefr.htm This page shows a man garbed as a fighter, complete with ringbyrnie and helmet; interestingly, they give a helmet pattern with the PDFs. He wears the same style of breaches as the other. If I have any clue at all what the Swedish says, his garb is largely based on 9th C Birka finds: http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/drakter/vkrigare/vkrigfr.htm There are also images of medieval garb, male and female; I'll just give the female garb (15th century) here, to whet your appetite: http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/drakter/smkvinna/smkvinnfr.htm Finally, the words on the left side of each picture is a list of the items the person is wearing; clicking on one will take you to a page describing the item and giving closeups of that item alone. If a picture says "Stor bild" on the lower right, clicking on the words will give you a large image of the person without any of the word links on it, but it doesn't seem to work on all browsers. (Now if I could only find similar sites from a Danish or Norwegian museum....) :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 23:36:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS4aF2q032667 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:36:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS4YRTQ013356; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:34:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS4YPBE023392; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:34:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS4YOBE023384 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:34:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.166.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.166] helo=4gxif) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1APaKl-0006Jz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:34:24 -0500 Message-ID: <015201c3b568$eea01280$a6f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><3FC4DD6D.2010009@comcast.net> <3FC61C44.BBD3C1CD@in-tch.com> <200311271902.52646.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:34:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/drakter/vkvinna/vkvinfr.htm > Thanks for the link to a great site. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 27 23:46:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS4kf2q032691 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:46:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS4iiTQ013823; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:44:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS4ihBE028095; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:44:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS4ieBE028079 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:44:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HP1000GEP6F6Q@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:44:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:43:53 -0800 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031127204127.00b0d530@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] Royal School embroidery book on eBay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If anyone is interested in the book Royal School of Needlework: Embroidery Techniques It is up on eBay right now, to end in 11+ hours. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3568113267&category=29331 I already have the book and paid full price, and it is worth getting if you are interested in learning fine needlework, including crewel and gold work. I know Bjarne has recommended the book on several occasions as well. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 00:01:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS51e2q032737 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 00:01:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS4xnTQ014610; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:59:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS4xlXQ004614; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:59:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav100.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS4xjXQ004568 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:59:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:59:40 -0800 Received: from 67.112.42.3 by bay4-dav100.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:59:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [67.112.42.3] X-Originating-Email: [ysandra8@msn.com] From: "ysandra sliverneedle" To: References: <200311280420.hAS4KcBG017005@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:59:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:59:39 -0800 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Nov 2003 04:59:40.0802 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E4B2620:01C3B56C] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Sunbathning X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hAS51e2q032737 Status: RO Bjarne, As an R.N. I MUST warn you to be VERY CAREFUL when sunbathing nude. You really Don't want to get the front view too tan or shudders...BURNED! I think that getting burned frontal view would be VERY painful! My Hubby sunbathes nude also and I give him the same warning! But I must admit it is fun sneaking up on him when he is face down. (Laughs at the thought of sneaking up with the water hose and giving an unexpected shower to face down Hubby) Ysandra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 00:10:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS5Aj2q032759 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 00:10:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS58vTQ014979; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:08:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS58uXQ008227; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:08:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS58qXQ008175 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:08:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20417 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 00:34:39 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 00:34:39 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re:[h-cost] The history of swimwear...... In-Reply-To: <200311280022.hAS0MlA22810@pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 27 Nov 2003, Michelle Plumb wrote: > > There's another costume movie with a more realistic scene -- one of the > > Merchant-Ivory productions, maybe "Room with a View"? -- in which a group > > of women on a walk happen past the swimming hole where their male > > acquaintances (including the local pastor) are swimming nude. Hilarity > > ensues. > > I saw that! Hysterical! > > First time I ever saw a nekkid vicar. ;-) And the actor playing the vicar was Simon Callow, a character actor who shows up in quite a few period-costume pieces. (You might also recognize him as half the gay couple in "Four Weddings and a Funeral.") I have no idea what the vicar was like in the original novel of "Room with a View," but Callow was perfect for the part in the movie. Part of the humor of the swimming scene, IIRC, was that he was romantically interested in the Helena Bonham Carter character, and would have been doubly (triply?) embarrassed for her to seem him naked -- as a male, a man of the church, *and* a potential suitor. Though I may be completely misremembering the plot. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 01:48:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS6mL2q000489 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:48:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS6jiTQ019177; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:45:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS6jenD017826; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:45:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAS6janD017766 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:45:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-116-255-134.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.255.134 with login) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2003 06:45:30 -0000 Message-ID: <018301c3b57b$36709aa0$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031126135742.053d5360@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens' Fair - who/where? Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:45:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Kayta, I'll be working Fezziwig's on Saturdays, but of course you know that! And Heather Meadows will be working at the Dark Garden corset booth. - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 02:00:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS70S2q000519 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 02:00:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS6wdTQ019825; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:58:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS6wcQ4022999; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:58:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS6wTQ5022932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:58:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAS6xSUZ009369 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:59:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAS6xOgB009367 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:59:24 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:59:24 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <001d01c3b43e$95754b10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <200311271902.52646.cathy@thyrsus.com> <015201c3b568$eea01280$a6f74a43@4gxif> In-Reply-To: <015201c3b568$eea01280$a6f74a43@4gxif> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311280159.24203.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 27 November 2003 11:34 pm, Helen Pinto wrote: > > http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/drakter/vkvinna/vkvinfr.htm > > Thanks for the link to a great site. > -Helen/Aidan You're welcome. I was extremely pleased to have found it. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 02:31:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS7Vt2q012448 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 02:31:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS7U9TQ021323; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 00:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS7U7Q4005970; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 00:30:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS7U2Q4005927 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 00:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hAS7WJ726694 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:32:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:32:19 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200311280732.hAS7WJ726694@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From: Catherine Olanich Raymond [...] > My present intent is to use the same color scheme as the Museum's version, > except I hope to find a alternative to the bright red for the apron-dress > because I don't look well in that sort of red. I was thinking about pale > blue, but that doesn't seem appropriate somehow. Of course, if I use a > lighter blue for the tunic I can use a darker blue for the apron-dress.... (I > haven't bought any fabric yet, fortunately.) Okay, are there photos anywhere on the website of these garments? I'd love to see what they're supposed to be reproductions of, but trying to navigate the swedish pages is giving me a headache. I'm sure I'd find them sooner or later, but a pointer to where the actual photos of collections are stashed would be a big help. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 04:26:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAS9QE2q019939 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:26:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS9OQTQ025412; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 02:24:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS9OOF0023371; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 02:24:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAS9OHF0023330 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 02:24:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hAS9Q1A17181.; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:26:01 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:24:16 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:24:11 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [possible Spam]::[h-cost] swim wear Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 11/27/03 7:27:46 PM >>> I wrote: >AFAIK men swam in the nude until the mid-19th century. >I had to smile at the famous "wet shirt" scene in the BBC's "Pride and >Prejudice" for this reason! and Bjarne asked >Are you sure there is such a scene in Pride and Prejudice, well i missed >that, i must go and look more precisely, It's in the Colin Firth version, when Elizabeth is visiting Darcy's house as a tourist with her aunt and uncle and he unexpectedly arrives home. He dismounts from his horse and pauses for a bathe in a lake in the grounds, leaving his shirt and breeches on, then on the way to the house all wet he bumps into Lizzy, to their mutual embarrassment. It caused much excitement among Colin Firth's female fans (well, he did make a gorgeous Darcy) but I couldn't help thinking that in real life he would have swum in the nude, which could have been even more embarrassing! >In Northanger Abbey there also is a scene in the roman bath at Bath >where the ladies wears a full regency dress in the Bath or rather a long >smock. They also carries a strange wooden tray round their necks with a >ribbon wich nobody i have asked ever knew what was! Perhaps for keeping small personal belongings safe while they were in the water? __ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 05:13:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASADl2q005529 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:13:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASABxTQ027242; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:11:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASABvhW012402; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:11:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [64.28.25.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASABqhX012351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:11:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [127.0.0.1]) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hASA8FiT028879 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:08:15 +0100 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id hASA8FLQ028875 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:08:15 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: decna.com: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:08:15 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering In-Reply-To: <200311271902.52646.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 27 Nov 2003, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/draktmonster.htm > > Yes, it's all in Swedish, but I think I understand enough to do a fair > replica of the clothing ("Klipp 2" and "Framstycke" and "Bakstycke" > seem pretty clear, for example), even though I can't understand enough > Swedish to make out most of the information about why the reproduction > was designed in the way it was. :-( Which parts are you wondering about? I'd be happy to translate, to the best of my ability. :) > I attempted to run some of the pages through a web translator, and > although the results were patchy they seemed to indicate that the > inset on the gown was silk, so I intend to look for a fairly heavy > silk tabby for the inset and use the remainder for the headcloth. Yes, the white inset is silk. The construction of the gown is taken from several different archeoligical finds and combined to form a whole garment. The silk inset is taken from grave no. 737 at Birka, while the sleeves and body of the gown is based on (unspecified) finds from Hedeby. The silver tabletwoven bands are based on finds in grave 965 at Birka. They say that it's likely that the bands have gone all around the sleeves and the torso of the garments. > My present intent is to use the same color scheme as the Museum's > version, except I hope to find a alternative to the bright red for the > apron-dress because I don't look well in that sort of red. How about a darker or duller madder red? Or a green, maybe? > I'm not sure I'm ready to emulate you by handsewing the entire thing, > but I will probably at least hand finish the sleeve-ends and > necklines, (especially the sleeve ends because my wrists are so small > it's easier that way). If you're going to make the "pleated" smock (is that the correct term since the pleats aren't sewed down but redone every time they go out?), which seems to be SO much work, I'd definitely advise doing all seams by hand. The straight seams really go quite fast by hand as well, and is nothing at all compared to the smock. And the satisfaction of *knowing* that it's completely hand sewn is just great. :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 07:51:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASCp62q010450 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:51:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASCmmTQ004749; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:48:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASCmj7r011957; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:48:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [199.170.68.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASCmh7r011946 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:48:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hASCse3L022487; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:54:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:54:39 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FC61C44.BBD3C1CD@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] 10th century Norse costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, what are all of you complaining about? Sewing by hand isn't so bad. Wimps. ;-) There's a museum in Iceland that houses traditional 10th c costumes as well. It's the National Museum of Iceland (aptly named, no?) in Rekjavik. I never went there (sadly) as it was being renovated while I was in town. But I heard it was a really drool-worthy place. They have a website: http://www.natmus.is/English/exhibitions/permanent.htm Sadly, there are no pictures of any costume on that page, but I'm sure if you emailed them, theyd send you a picture, or at least some information. I know you're doing 'Dublin', but if memory serves, there was enough trading and whatnot among the Vikings back and forth between Ireland and Iceland, so it should be fairly accurate. They obviously had embroidery tools, so you'd think there might be some remnant of embroidery available somewhere... Also, I've found a picture of a reconstructed Icelandic (woman's 10th c) ensemble that someone in Finnland has made (not sure of the accuracy, though...) There's some very simple embroidery on the edge of the apron. www.helsinki.fi/~lauusita/ pics/puvut/islanti.jpg Hope this helps! Kate! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 08:29:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASDTD2q010534 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:29:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASDRMTQ006533; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:27:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASDRKAn027813; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:27:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASDRHAn027797 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:27:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.106] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB7816100E4; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:19:52 -0500 Message-ID: <004901c3b5b3$f3de2020$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1069939837.3fc5fc7d9795a@webmail.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1810 needlelace reticule Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:31:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Are you referring to the reticule that is usually termed 'miser's purse'? The one that has the metal rings and the slit in the middle. I have some that are knitted but have not seen any I would call needlelace. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hilary Davidson" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 8:30 AM Subject: [h-cost] 1810 needlelace reticule > Hiya, > > A friend of mine is researching this very sweet and small article, made of > coloures silks, and teensy tiny steel beads and is not finding a lot on it. > Does anyone have any info on production/use/interesting anectodes for things > like this? It's so small there's not a lot you could actually put in it, about > 7 in x 2 in wide. > > ta muchly, > > hilary > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 09:29:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASETG2q010693 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:29:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASERMTQ009054; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:27:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASERL8J022046; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:27:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASERE8K021993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:27:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hASESZUZ010572 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:28:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hASESZJ3010570 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:28:35 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 10th century Norse costume Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:28:35 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311280928.35276.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 28 November 2003 07:54 am, Catherine Ussailis wrote: > Hey, what are all of you complaining about? Sewing by hand isn't so > bad. Wimps. ;-) You haven't seen my stitching. :-) > > There's a museum in Iceland that houses traditional 10th c costumes as > well. It's the National Museum of Iceland (aptly named, no?) in Rekjavik. > I never went there (sadly) as it was being renovated while I was in town. Would you believe I was also in Revkjavik during the renovations? So I didn't get to go either. :-( (If I ever make it back to Iceland, I'm going, first thing). > But I heard it was a really drool-worthy place. They have a website: > > http://www.natmus.is/English/exhibitions/permanent.htm Thanks for the URL. > Sadly, there are no pictures of any costume on that page, but I'm sure if > you emailed them, theyd send you a picture, or at least some information. > I know you're doing 'Dublin', Nope, Sue Cleminger is doing "Dublin". I'm not there yet; I'm interested in other variations of Viking attire. :-) > but if memory serves, there was enough > trading and whatnot among the Vikings back and forth between Ireland and > Iceland, so it should be fairly accurate. They obviously had embroidery > tools, so you'd think there might be some remnant of embroidery available > somewhere... > > Also, I've found a picture of a reconstructed Icelandic (woman's 10th c) > ensemble that someone in Finnland has made (not sure of the accuracy, > though...) There's some very simple embroidery on the edge of the apron. > > www.helsinki.fi/~lauusita/ pics/puvut/islanti.jpg Thanks, though this site I was familiar with. I'm also familiar with the recreated costume you mean; it's based on early 11th c finds from Eura in Finland. There's a book, "Ancient Finnish Costumes," that she mentions on the site that I've been looking for but have yet to find any clue of where a copy might exist. Carolyn Priest-Dorman talks a little, both about the Eura finds and the costume reconstruction, in her SCA monograph on early Northern European women's costume. The National Museum of Finland also has a web site. It isn't as rich in clothing information as the Historiska Museet's page, but it contains pictures of costume reconstructions. The one on the left under the heading "Iron Age Costume and Dress" is based on the Eura finds. http://www.nba.fi/NATMUS/Julkais/Prehist/silver.htm > Hope this helps! Every little bit helps. Thank you. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 09:45:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASEjt2q010745 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:45:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASEjHTQ009900; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASEjG8J029623; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:45:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hASEjD8J029557 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:45:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OsxULicbBGjBm97fkMuPMg0=">; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:44:13 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JF33TFRJ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:44:13 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:40:27 -0800 Message-ID: <20031128.064310.1888.9.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,7-10 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com cc: antir-laurels@antir.sca.org Subject: [h-cost] needlelace sources? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone recommend some good books or websites for learning to do needlelace? I am especially interested in it as it would have been used in medieval or Renaissance times. Was it done in England in the 14th century? How was it used? Now that I'm on a new drug therapy for the arthritis, my hands have gotten much better and I've been wanting to try it for quite some time. It is so beautiful! thanks! Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 09:59:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASExH2q010784 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:59:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASEt1Tc010483; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:56:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASEfA8J027943; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:41:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta1.sucs.soton.ac.uk (mta1.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASEf68J027910 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:41:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from B63B21 (b63b-21.pws.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.185.74]) by mta1.sucs.soton.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hASEdV3A028284 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:39:31 GMT Message-ID: <001a01c3b5bd$6edb0640$4ab94e98@pws.sucs.soton.ac.uk> From: "Hilary Davidson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1069939837.3fc5fc7d9795a@webmail.soton.ac.uk> <004901c3b5b3$f3de2020$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1810 needlelace reticule Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:39:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-ISS-MailScanner: Believed to be clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm, no - it is entirely made of the lacy appearing needlework, coming to a point at the bottom with little strawberries dangling off it. Like a little crocheted evening bag of teh twenties, sort of, but more cylindrical. She's found something suggesting they may have been made and given more as favours between friends, which is plausible, as you could only fit a hanky in it, and a small one at that. On a whole other topic, I'm making small bits of dress while I have no room to expand rolls of cloth, and am fiddling about with ruffs. To liven things up, I'd love to make a coloured one, esp. if I could document the elusive pic of Marie (a?) de Medici wearing a red ruff. It would be so cool......Any know if it's a real picture or a dress myth?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1810 needlelace reticule > Are you referring to the reticule that is usually termed 'miser's purse'? > The one that has the metal rings and the slit in the middle. I have some > that are knitted but have not seen any I would call needlelace. > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hilary Davidson" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 8:30 AM > Subject: [h-cost] 1810 needlelace reticule > > > > Hiya, > > > > A friend of mine is researching this very sweet and small article, made of > > coloures silks, and teensy tiny steel beads and is not finding a lot on > it. > > Does anyone have any info on production/use/interesting anectodes for > things > > like this? It's so small there's not a lot you could actually put in it, > about > > 7 in x 2 in wide. > > > > ta muchly, > > > > hilary > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 09:59:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASExK2q010787 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:59:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASEuuTQ010589; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASEutne005217; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:56:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASEuqnf005139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:56:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hASEwDUZ010644 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:58:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hASEwDBF010642 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:58:13 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:58:13 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311280958.13086.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hASEuqnf005139 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 28 November 2003 05:08 am, Ingrid G. Storrø wrote: > On Thu, 27 Nov 2003, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/draktmonster.htm > > > > Yes, it's all in Swedish, but I think I understand enough to do a fair > > replica of the clothing ("Klipp 2" and "Framstycke" and "Bakstycke" > > seem pretty clear, for example), even though I can't understand enough > > Swedish to make out most of the information about why the reproduction > > was designed in the way it was. :-( > > Which parts are you wondering about? I'd be happy to translate, to the > best of my ability. :) All of it! Or at least all of the subpages relating to the "Vikingatida kvinna" and what she's wearing....:-) No, I wouldn't ask you to do that. There's a surprising amount of text and I wouldn't want to impose on you. I can recognize individual words, in some cases. Of course I recognize "Birka" . I'm assuming "900-talet" is something like "10th C.", "tunika" is "tunic"; "rynkvecked sark" is "round-necked smock", and so forth, and I can tell from the results of clicking on the link that "Vad har hon over?" is something like "What was worn over [the rest of her costume]?", but for more specific detail I'm lost. > > I attempted to run some of the pages through a web translator, and > > although the results were patchy they seemed to indicate that the > > inset on the gown was silk, so I intend to look for a fairly heavy > > silk tabby for the inset and use the remainder for the headcloth. > > Yes, the white inset is silk. The construction of the gown is taken from > several different archeoligical finds and combined to form a whole > garment. I figured the reconstruction would involve deductions based on different finds. Thank you for the confirmation. >The silk inset is taken from grave no. 737 at Birka, while the > sleeves and body of the gown is based on (unspecified) finds from > Hedeby. Thanks again for the confirmation. If I may ask, are your comments above based on your reading of the Swedish text on the Historiska Museet's page, or do you have information on this subject from another source? >The silver tabletwoven bands are based on finds in grave 965 at > Birka. They say that it's likely that the bands have gone all around the > sleeves and the torso of the garments. All around the sleeves I can readily believe, based on what I have read about other finds. I note that the Historiska's proposed reconstruction would only put tabletwoven bands on the front of the torso, though. > > My present intent is to use the same color scheme as the Museum's > > version, except I hope to find a alternative to the bright red for the > > apron-dress because I don't look well in that sort of red. > > How about a darker or duller madder red? Madder red isn't quite right either. I'm thinking now about looking for a shade with more yellow in it; something closer to copper or even a brown. >Or a green, maybe? I thought about green. I'd *like* to use green, but a truly pretty (and plausibly period) dark green is surprisingly difficult to find. I've had occasion to look for dark green fabric over the years, and that's been my experience. If I give up on looking for wool fabric and go for a broken twill in a different fabric, I probably will end up with green, since all the hemp blends I've found are an undyed "natural" shade. > > I'm not sure I'm ready to emulate you by handsewing the entire thing, > > but I will probably at least hand finish the sleeve-ends and > > necklines, (especially the sleeve ends because my wrists are so small > > it's easier that way). > > If you're going to make the "pleated" smock (is that the correct term > since the pleats aren't sewed down but redone every time they go out?), You make a good point, but "pleated" is the only term I've heard used. > which seems to be SO much work, It's more like the "broomstick" pleating that you see on certain cheap skirts from India. Carolyn Priest-Dorman describes the process; it doesn't sound so bad. > I'd definitely advise doing all seams by > hand. The straight seams really go quite fast by hand as well, and is > nothing at all compared to the smock. And the satisfaction of *knowing* > that it's completely hand sewn is just great. :) I'd be more interested in this if I knew of a place where I could find linen or other natural fiber sewing thread. The usual poly-cotton or polyester stuff is particularly nasty for handsewing. Thanks very much for your post. Take care. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 10:11:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASFBl2q010817 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:11:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASFB7TQ011462; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:11:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASFB5ne011565; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:11:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASFB3nf011533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:11:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hASFCOUZ010735 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:12:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hASFCOGv010733 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:12:24 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:12:23 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200311280732.hAS7WJ726694@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200311280732.hAS7WJ726694@gw.retro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311281012.23959.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 28 November 2003 02:32 am, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > From: Catherine Olanich Raymond > > [...] > > > My present intent is to use the same color scheme as the Museum's > > version, except I hope to find a alternative to the bright red for the > > apron-dress because I don't look well in that sort of red. I was > > thinking about pale blue, but that doesn't seem appropriate somehow. Of > > course, if I use a lighter blue for the tunic I can use a darker blue for > > the apron-dress.... (I haven't bought any fabric yet, fortunately.) > > Okay, are there photos anywhere on the website of these garments? So far as I've been able to tell, no. > I'd love to see what they're supposed to be reproductions of, but > trying to navigate the swedish pages is giving me a headache. Sympathy. I don't read Swedish either, and I've been staring at the pages for days now whenever I've had a spare moment. :-) But see Ingrid's response to one of my posts on this issue; she apparently reads Swedish, and her post sheds a bit of light on what's going on. > I'm > sure I'd find them sooner or later, but a pointer to where the actual > photos of collections are stashed would be a big help. If you mean pictures of the actual artifacts, they would probably be disappointing. Most costume research from the Viking period are based on extremely small fragrments found in graves stuck to the back of brooches, and the like. A lot of deduction is necessarily involved (which is why "reconstruction" is probably a better term than "reproduction", and I'm sorry if I forgot to use it in my enthusiasm. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 11:03:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASG3e2q010994 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:03:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASG34TQ014383; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:03:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASG32I0005908; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [64.28.25.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASG2wI1005839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:02:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [127.0.0.1]) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hASFxLiT007068 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:59:21 +0100 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id hASFxLij007064 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:59:21 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: decna.com: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:59:21 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering In-Reply-To: <200311280958.13086.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 28 Nov 2003, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > All of it! Or at least all of the subpages relating to the "Vikingatida > kvinna" and what she's wearing....:-) > > No, I wouldn't ask you to do that. There's a surprising amount of text and I > wouldn't want to impose on you. Warning: incredibly long post! *phew* I'd be happy to give it a try although I can't promise to get it all done in one go, or a perfect translation. :) I'll just start at the top and work my way down. At the bottom of this e-mail I've included the translation of the intro and the bits for the headcloth, smock and gown/tunic, with some of my comments in parenthesis. I'm sending it to the list since there seems that others are interested as well. :) (If I forget to do the rest, just poke me so I remember - I'm going home for the weekend now.) > I can recognize individual words, in some cases. Of course I recognize > "Birka" . I'm assuming "900-talet" is something like "10th C.", "tunika" is > "tunic"; "rynkvecked sark" is "round-necked smock", and so forth, and I can > tell from the results of clicking on the link that "Vad har hon over?" is > something like "What was worn over [the rest of her costume]?", but for more > specific detail I'm lost. Almost all correct, except that "Rynkveckad" isn't round-necked but refers to the method of "pleating" the smock by sewing gathering threads in the garment at intervals. :) > >The silk inset is taken from grave no. 737 at Birka, while the > > sleeves and body of the gown is based on (unspecified) finds from > > Hedeby. > > Thanks again for the confirmation. If I may ask, are your comments above > based on your reading of the Swedish text on the Historiska Museet's page, or > do you have information on this subject from another source? These comments were just translated from the Swedish text on the pages, I'm afraid. I seem to remember that the reconstruction has been discussed on their web board as well; I could check if anything new came up there if you like. > All around the sleeves I can readily believe, based on what I have read about > other finds. I note that the Historiska's proposed reconstruction would only > put tabletwoven bands on the front of the torso, though. Yes, the garment reconstrucion looks that way, but they just note this in the text. > Madder red isn't quite right either. I'm thinking now about looking for a > shade with more yellow in it; something closer to copper or even a brown. Ooh, a nice rich brown - yum! > I'd be more interested in this if I knew of a place where I could find linen > or other natural fiber sewing thread. The usual poly-cotton or polyester > stuff is particularly nasty for handsewing. If you can't find it e-mail me privately; I'm sure we could arrange to send you some. Anything to raise authenticity! :D Here's the translations so far: Viking-age woman This is a reconstruction of the type of costume many of the better off women of Birka were buried in during the 10th century. It's important to note that, as with the men's costume, the clothes and items that follow the dead to their graves are not necessarily the same things that were used, or the same garments that were worn when the person was alive. Many things actually point to the opposite, for example that the pleated smock she wears near the body can not be washed without losing the pleats. Click the different parts, garments or pictures for more information. Headcloth The use of headcloths in the viking age is a matter of discussion; many hold that Viking-age women were liberated and did not need this garment, others say that this is an anacronism based on a modern way of thinking. During the middle ages, which come after the viking age, the use of headcloths are certain. This also goes for male headgear. For this reason we have chosen to let our viking-age woman wear a headcloth. The headcloth is made from linen, and has a trimming of twisted wool. This woman wears a somewhat simple headcloth. It is possible that beautiful hairdos were made for special occasions or for burials. There are finds of some type of diadem (headband-ish thing), or embroidery on some things that must have been worn on the head according to position in the graves. Picture-stones (no idea what the term for these is, sorry!) also suggest hair arranged in different ways. Pleated smock (I'm just going to call it pleated for lack of a better term) This pleated smock, in literatured called anything from "goffrad ock veckad" (which I can't translate beyond that it is gathered and bent somehow), to pleated, is one of the best-known garments from the viking age. In older books on the viking age one often sees illustrated women wearing this type of smock working on farms. That, however, is a very unikeli reconstruction. Firstly, these rich graves are unlikely to mirror the daily life of the vikings, and secondly it is not possible to wear the smock for more than a few hours since the gatherings will give out. Click the pictures for larger ones The "pleats" are made by sewing lots of seams across the fabric (I suppose they mean garment, really), which is then wetted in hot water. After this the gathering threads are pulled out and the smock left to dry. In many cases the process can take up to three days. The result after removing the threads is lots of gathers, which gives the fabric a "harmonica-effect". (I wish I could come up with a better translation for the word "veck", but gather or pleat seems to be the best I can do.) This very long process makes it quite improbable that these garments have been used for daily wear. Many things point to that this very special type of smock was brought home by vikings who travelled east. There are examples of smocks of similar techniques and materials i southern Europe from historic times. Today we think that this is a type of smock which was used for very special occasions, such as weddings and burials. For everyday use it is likely that ordinary linen or woollen smocks have been used. Here you see the stitching holes that are left by the threads that keep the fabric together while it dries. (You see that they have some conflikcting info here; here it says that the threads are left in while it dries, which I think is more likely than taking them out while the garment is still wet! :) ) Tunic This tunic, with a frontpiece of silk and decorated with silver tablet-woven bands, was worn between the pleated smock and the apron dress. The construction is a combination of several different archeological finds. The frontpiece is from grave 735 in Birka, tha arms and dress are based on finds from Hedeby, and the tablet-woven band based on finds frome grave 965 in Birka. Click the pictures for larger ones. The beautiful tablet-woven band, which is "applicerad" (which I think is meant to mean simply fastened to; I'm not sure if they mean to describe a particular technique) to the silk cloth, is based on one from a grave in Birka. From this find it was possible to conclude where the tortoise brooches had been placed on the woman's costume, as they had left dark impressions on the band, of which much is preserved. It is likely that the tablet-woven bands have gone all the way around the sleeves and around the waist (more likely: torso, my comment) of the viking age garments. Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 11:07:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASG7c2q011008 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:07:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASG5jTQ014626; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:05:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASG5jI0007736; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:05:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hASG5cI0007608 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:05:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Ouav415g/spqX+DVJS3yZ58=">; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:04:45 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JF38EWG2; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:04:45 PST To: antir-laurels@antir.sca.org Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:56:47 -0800 Message-ID: <20031128.080358.160.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fillet : was: needlelace sources? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also any recommendations for fillet (filet??) lace? thanks, Arlys On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:40:27 -0800 Cynthia J Ley writes: > Can anyone recommend some good books or websites for learning to do > needlelace? I am especially interested in it as it would have been > used in medieval or Renaissance times. Was it done in England in the > 14th century? How was it used? > > Now that I'm on a new drug therapy for the arthritis, my hands have > gotten much better and I've been wanting to try it for quite some > time. It is so beautiful! > > thanks! > > Arlys > ________________________________________________________________ The > best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the > web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com > to sign up today! ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 11:12:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASGC02q011033 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:12:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASGBOTQ015028; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:11:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASGBNI0010613; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:11:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASGBII0010546 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:11:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A32FBE7E1 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:11:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FC774EC.1040507@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:16:44 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Piping question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I am working on the 1845 dress bodice and I noticed that the edge is done with piping. I have never done this before and I was wondering how to do that. Is it just a cord with fabric around it?? Schoult the fabrick be crossgrain or can I use a strait strip of fabric?? Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 11:16:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASGGk2q011050 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:16:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASGGETQ015291; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:16:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASGGEI0012961; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:16:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASGGBI0012915 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:16:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.b6.25a75031 (25098) for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:16:00 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:15:59 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/28/2003 11:11:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: Is it just a cord with fabric around it?? Schoult the fabrick be crossgrain or can I use a strait strip of fabric?? During the period, they usually used strait grain, but manipulating piping, especially around curved edges, is much easier if you use bias. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 11:41:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASGf82q011610 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:41:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASGeWTQ017090; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:40:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASGeTI0025491; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:40:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASGeNI1025447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:40:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hASGfjUZ010876 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:41:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hASGfi0s010874 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:41:44 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:41:44 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311281141.44687.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hASGeNI1025447 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 28 November 2003 10:59 am, Ingrid G. Storrø wrote: > On Fri, 28 Nov 2003, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > All of it! Or at least all of the subpages relating to the "Vikingatida > > kvinna" and what she's wearing....:-) > > > > No, I wouldn't ask you to do that. There's a surprising amount of text > > and I wouldn't want to impose on you. > > Warning: incredibly long post! *phew* Oh, Ingrid, thank you! I really didn't want to impose, but I do appreciate having the extra information. > > I'd be happy to give it a try although I can't promise to get it all > done in one go, or a perfect translation. :) You clearly know more Swedish than I do (since I "know" none, and am doing a lot of guessing based on words with similar forms in both languages and knowledge I've gleaned from other sources written in English). :-) >I'll just start at the top > and work my way down. At the bottom of this e-mail I've included the > translation of the intro and the bits for the headcloth, smock and > gown/tunic, with some of my comments in parenthesis. I'm sending it to > the list since there seems that others are interested as well. :) (If I > forget to do the rest, just poke me so I remember - I'm going home for > the weekend now.) And I'm taking you way from your work too! Thank you so much. > > I can recognize individual words, in some cases. Of course I recognize > > "Birka" . I'm assuming "900-talet" is something like "10th C.", "tunika" > > is "tunic"; "rynkvecked sark" is "round-necked smock", and so forth, and > > I can tell from the results of clicking on the link that "Vad har hon > > over?" is something like "What was worn over [the rest of her > > costume]?", but for more specific detail I'm lost. > > Almost all correct, except that "Rynkveckad" isn't round-necked but > refers to the method of "pleating" the smock by sewing gathering > threads in the garment at intervals. :) Okay, thank you. I'll remember that. [snip] > > Thanks again for the confirmation. If I may ask, are your comments > > above based on your reading of the Swedish text on the Historiska > > Museet's page, or do you have information on this subject from another > > source? > > These comments were just translated from the Swedish text on the pages, > I'm afraid. I seem to remember that the reconstruction has been > discussed on their web board as well; I could check if anything new came > up there if you like. If you have the time, that would be wonderful. Thank you for mentioning the web board, though. I meant to mention it in my post to the list. The Historska Museet has a comment board; unfortunately, all the posts are in Swedish also; they appear to me to include clothing and other subjects relating to Viking life. I would be poring over the comments right now, except I understand even less of the comments on the board than I do of the Museum's web site. :-) > > All around the sleeves I can readily believe, based on what I have read > > about other finds. I note that the Historiska's proposed reconstruction > > would only put tabletwoven bands on the front of the torso, though. > > Yes, the garment reconstrucion looks that way, but they just note this > in the text. Okay. That's interesting. I'd never heard any indication that Vikings may have used trimming on the rear of garments before. > > Madder red isn't quite right either. I'm thinking now about looking for > > a shade with more yellow in it; something closer to copper or even a > > brown. > > Ooh, a nice rich brown - yum! I love nice browns. But I don't think they go very well with blue, and I'm rather attached to making the tunic blue. Maybe the best thing to do (since, unlike Sue, I'm not planning to do this for a particular event), is to refrain from looking for fabric for the apron-dress until I've obtained the wool I will use for the tunic. > > I'd be more interested in this if I knew of a place where I could find > > linen or other natural fiber sewing thread. The usual poly-cotton or > > polyester stuff is particularly nasty for handsewing. > > If you can't find it e-mail me privately; I'm sure we could arrange to > send you some. Anything to raise authenticity! :D I will take a serious look around the web, and email you in case I come up dry; thank you once more. :-) [translations snipped but I'm saving Ingrid's post and will email them to anyone who is interested but misses part of this thread.] -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 12:06:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASH632q011721 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 12:06:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASH43TQ018664; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASH3rPF008220; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:03:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9402.mail.yahoo.com (web9402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hASH3pPF008207 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:03:51 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031128170351.52026.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.251.232] by web9402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:03:51 PST Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:03:51 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] viking costumne X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello Ingrid --thank you also from my end as well----! Our local SCA is planning an event with a Viking theme next year --this will be very useful for us:) Cheers and Best-- Albra (in not-so-sunny Ventura California) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 12:18:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASHIp2q011788 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 12:18:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASHHFTQ019405; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:17:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASHHEPF014678; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:17:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hASHHBPF014655 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:17:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-68-92-155-61.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net (HELO corsetsandcostumes.com) (lindajthompson@sbcglobal.net@68.92.155.61 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2003 17:17:02 -0000 Message-ID: <3FC78343.4030707@corsetsandcostumes.com> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:17:55 -0600 From: linda User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Swimwear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Subject: [h-cost] swim wear> > > In Northanger Abbey there also is a scene in the roman bath at Bath where > the ladies wears a full regency dress in the Bath or rather a long smock. > They also carries a strange wooden tray round their necks with a > ribbon wich > nobody i have asked ever knew what was! > I have seen a 17th century print from the same famous Bath where > ladies is > bathing fully dressed and men are bathing in the adam costume. And > obviously it is quite the tone to do so even though ladies are pressent. > > Bjarne I can remember when I was learning to swim at school at the age of 7 (I went to a private catholic girls school),we had swim boards that we used as floatation aids. They were about the size of a medium serving tray and they hung from your neck. You would hold on to the board and jump into the water. You could then lean onto the board and kick your feet to move around. Maybe that is what you saw in the pictures. Also, I can remember my older sisters saying that one of the reasons that girls in highschool could not be on a swimteam was because for boys, swimtrunks were optional, at the swim practices. This was in the mid 1950's in the midwest of the states. Linda T _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 13:41:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASIfH2q012557 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:41:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASIeCTQ024895; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:40:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASIeAX2027175; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:40:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASIe7X2027115 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:40:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.f2.34207d34 (4004) for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:39:44 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:39:44 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10705 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You can make piping out of regular twine. I have this huge skein of cotton twine I make piping out of all the time. Cut a strip of the dress fabric on the true bias longer than the waist or neck or armseye...whichever you're doing... measurement. Make sure it has enough width to have the right seam allowance. For instance, if you left 5/8ths SA at the bottom of the bodice, you'll need 10/8 ths [1-1/4th"] plus the small amount to cover the twine. The thickness of the twine will determine that extra amount. Real 1840s gowns I've seen have very tiny piping in the armseye [a must, every 19th century dress I've ever seen has piped armseyes. I usually just use the same size as everywhere else though] and larger or double piping at the waist and neck. Put the zipper foot on your machine, fold the bias strip over the twine so the raw edges of the SA are flush and run it through on a basting stitch close to the twine. To apply it to the bodice, sew it with the piping on top [duh]. Line up the SAs and stitch just to the twine side of the basting that holds the piping together [so the basting won't show on the outside]....as close to the twine as possible. Yes, you'll need to use the zipper foot. [if your SAs aren't even or the same you'll have to hand baste it in place 1st]. On the armseye you can do this before the side seams are sewn. Carry the piping to the edge of the side seam SA. Then the raw edges of the piping will be caught in the side seam. [You can do this at the bodice bottom too making it easier for alterations but this isn't period, just a handy theatrical trick.] After the sides are sewn up, set in your sleeves. Try to sew them on the same line of stitching that holds the piping. Hand basting them in 1st can make things go much easier. To do the bottom of the bodice, with the side seams sewn up and pressed open, find the center of the piping strip. Pinch it then hand tack it together for about 1/16". This will give you a sharp point. Place the pinch at the point of the CF point and hand baste the piping in place for a little ways on either side. You'll need to clip the piping's SA at the point. This will insure a neat, sharp point. Match up the SAs [or baste] and sew it one side at a time starting at the point going to the CB. Remember to have the piping on top [a little tricky on one side of the bodice] and sew just to the twine side of the basting so it won't show. Take the piping to the end of the CB SA. You can leave extra length of piping at the CB for letting out the side seams. This would require undoing the piping on the back pieces but is better than piecing it at the sides. You just hide this extra length under the CB facings [or self facings]. It is period to close the bodice CB with hooks and bars. I sometimes use flat skirt hooks but this isn't a period hook. I also put a piece of plastic or feather boning behind the hooks. It is also advisable to slip a small bone in all 4 front darts, and bone the side seams too. You can do this all with Riglene or feather boning. You can also use the SA of the piping at the waist and neck as their facings, whip or cross stitching them neatly down. In the neck, slip a 1/8" twill tape through the whipped down facing. [The ends can emerge through the whip stitched edge before you get to the CB facing.]Use this to pull up the off the shoulder neckline snugly. The bow you tie will be inside the bodice and any easing can be distributed across the back and won't show. I've made a million of these, can you tell? I'm sure I can think of some other little chores for you. Give me a moment.... How about a 3" or 4" strip of commercial quilting hidden in the skirt hem? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 16:25:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASLPl2q014588 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:25:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASLOvTQ008495; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:24:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASLOqJU025153; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:24:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASLOoJU025082 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 749E41A0BA0 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:51:08 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FC7B687.6030702@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:56:39 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks!! That is almost more than I want to know ;-) Greetings, Deredere AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >You can make piping out of regular twine. I have this huge skein of cotton >twine I make piping out of all the time. > >Cut a strip of the dress fabric on the true bias longer than the waist or >neck or armseye...whichever you're doing... measurement. Make sure it has enough >width to have the right seam allowance. For instance, if you left 5/8ths SA at >the bottom of the bodice, you'll need 10/8 ths [1-1/4th"] plus the small >amount to cover the twine. The thickness of the twine will determine that extra >amount. Real 1840s gowns I've seen have very tiny piping in the armseye [a must, >every 19th century dress I've ever seen has piped armseyes. I usually just >use the same size as everywhere else though] and larger or double piping at the >waist and neck. >Put the zipper foot on your machine, fold the bias strip over the twine so >the raw edges of the SA are flush and run it through on a basting stitch close >to the twine. > >To apply it to the bodice, sew it with the piping on top [duh]. Line up the >SAs and stitch just to the twine side of the basting that holds the piping >together [so the basting won't show on the outside]....as close to the twine as >possible. Yes, you'll need to use the zipper foot. [if your SAs aren't even or >the same you'll have to hand baste it in place 1st]. > >On the armseye you can do this before the side seams are sewn. Carry the >piping to the edge of the side seam SA. Then the raw edges of the piping will be >caught in the side seam. [You can do this at the bodice bottom too making it >easier for alterations but this isn't period, just a handy theatrical trick.] >After the sides are sewn up, set in your sleeves. Try to sew them on the same >line of stitching that holds the piping. Hand basting them in 1st can make >things go much easier. > >To do the bottom of the bodice, with the side seams sewn up and pressed open, >find the center of the piping strip. Pinch it then hand tack it together for >about 1/16". This will give you a sharp point. Place the pinch at the point >of the CF point and hand baste the piping in place for a little ways on either >side. You'll need to clip the piping's SA at the point. This will insure a >neat, sharp point. Match up the SAs [or baste] and sew it one side at a time >starting at the point going to the CB. Remember to have the piping on top [a >little tricky on one side of the bodice] and sew just to the twine side of the >basting so it won't show. Take the piping to the end of the CB SA. > >You can leave extra length of piping at the CB for letting out the side >seams. This would require undoing the piping on the back pieces but is better than >piecing it at the sides. You just hide this extra length under the CB facings >[or self facings]. > >It is period to close the bodice CB with hooks and bars. I sometimes use flat >skirt hooks but this isn't a period hook. I also put a piece of plastic or >feather boning behind the hooks. It is also advisable to slip a small bone in >all 4 front darts, and bone the side seams too. You can do this all with Riglene >or feather boning. > >You can also use the SA of the piping at the waist and neck as their facings, >whip or cross stitching them neatly down. In the neck, slip a 1/8" twill tape >through the whipped down facing. [The ends can emerge through the whip >stitched edge before you get to the CB facing.]Use this to pull up the off the >shoulder neckline snugly. The bow you tie will be inside the bodice and any easing >can be distributed across the back and won't show. > >I've made a million of these, can you tell? I'm sure I can think of some >other little chores for you. Give me a moment.... How about a 3" or 4" strip of >commercial quilting hidden in the skirt hem? >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 16:46:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASLk72q014729 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:46:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASLjYTQ009793; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:45:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASLjWJU006606; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:45:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASLjTJU006477 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:45:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B8F61A0F48 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 22:04:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FC7B9AD.8070704@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 22:10:05 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] 1845 update X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have pictures of my corset. It is to big at my hips :-( it slides down. Still have do a little about the bodice. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 17:34:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASMYn2q014947 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:34:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASMYMTQ013118; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 15:34:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASMYJAN002885; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 15:34:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASMYHAO002876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 15:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.8/Submit) id hASMYHOL002875 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 15:34:17 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 15:34:17 -0700 From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20031128223417.GA1916@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] OT: Muppet fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm looking for fabric with Kermit or other Muppets on it that is suitable for making clothing. Anyone see anything like this out there in your fabric shopping? Thanks, ...eliz -- When you're working, live like you're not, so that when you're not, you can live like you are. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 18:01:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASN1m2q015113 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:01:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASN1CTQ014900; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:01:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASN1BZh016574; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:01:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from queue3-svc.business.ntl.com (queue3-win.server.ntli.net [62.253.164.223]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASN17Zh016547 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:01:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from Imedia5043 ([82.2.96.251]) by mta7-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20031128162922.EKR20717.mta7-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:29:22 +0000 Message-ID: <006301c3b5cc$c54dec40$34d86751@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:29:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO thank you Ingrid for that translation and to everyone for those links I have just been asked to go to a Viking festival next year and as it is a period I haven't made in several years was just starting to scour the web for current thinking and info to try and make as accurately as possible and then was going to post questions to clarify so you've saved me lots of time as I had planned to base on the Birka finds Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 18:15:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASNFo2q015188 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:15:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASNFDTQ015802; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:15:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASNFCZh024197; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASNF8Zh024166 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.159.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.159] helo=4gxif) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1APrpK-00041p-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:15:07 -0500 Message-ID: <01a001c3b605$83edd740$9ff74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200311280958.13086.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:15:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy Raymond wrote: > I'd be more interested in this if I knew of a place where I could find linen > or other natural fiber sewing thread. The usual poly-cotton or polyester > stuff is particularly nasty for handsewing. > Linen sewing thread is readily available at places which sell bookbinding supplies. Try Hewit's or Talas or Hollander's for linen thread by Barbour. I think Hollanders may have the best variety. Using beeswax will make it easier. -Helen/Aidan http://www.hewit.com/ http://talasonline.com/ http://www.hollanders.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 18:21:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASNL52q015212 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:21:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASNKVTQ016207; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:20:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASNKTZh026987; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:20:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASNKRZh026958 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:20:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.159.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.159] helo=4gxif) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1APruT-0005P4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:20:25 -0500 Message-ID: <01dd01c3b606$47de0ee0$9ff74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:20:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ingrid- Thanks for the translations. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 18:25:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hASNPv2q015288 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:25:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASNPLTQ016550; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:25:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASNPKZh029524; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:25:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hASNPIZh029494 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:25:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.159.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.159] helo=4gxif) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1APrzA-0005Ox-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:25:16 -0500 Message-ID: <01f401c3b606$f5698c60$9ff74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FC78343.4030707@corsetsandcostumes.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Swimwear Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:25:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Linda T wrote: for> boys, swimtrunks were optional, at the swim practices. This was in the > mid 1950's in the midwest of the states. > Ditto the greater NYC area in the late 50's and early 60's; the only local recreational facility was the Boy's Club, and the official reason for not opening it up for girls was the fact that the boys did not wear swim trunks in the pool... -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 20:09:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAT19Q2q016479 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:09:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT18STQ023886; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:08:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT18QPU023088; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:08:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT18NPU023067 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA592F92B for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:12:04 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <860B8676-2208-11D8-88E9-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: [h-cost] swim wear Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:08:21 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Colin Firth talked about this scene on NPR recently. I think it was an interview with Terry Gross on Fresh Air. Basically, they intended to do the scene with him nude, but there was no way it could air that way (according to him), and since he wouldn't have worn a swimsuit, he opted to jump in in his clothing. On Nov 28, 2003, at 1:24 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: >>>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 11/27/03 7:27:46 PM >>> > I wrote: >> AFAIK men swam in the nude until the mid-19th century. >> I had to smile at the famous "wet shirt" scene in the BBC's "Pride and >> Prejudice" for this reason! > > and Bjarne asked > >> Are you sure there is such a scene in Pride and Prejudice, well i > missed >> that, i must go and look more precisely, > > It's in the Colin Firth version, when Elizabeth is visiting Darcy's > house as a tourist with her aunt and uncle and he unexpectedly arrives > home. He dismounts from his horse and pauses for a bathe in a lake in > the grounds, leaving his shirt and breeches on, then on the way to the > house all wet he bumps into Lizzy, to their mutual embarrassment. It > caused much excitement among Colin Firth's female fans (well, he did > make a gorgeous Darcy) but I couldn't help thinking that in real life > he > would have swum in the nude, which could have been even more > embarrassing! > >> In Northanger Abbey there also is a scene in the roman bath at Bath >> where the ladies wears a full regency dress in the Bath or rather a > long >smock. They also carries a strange wooden tray round their necks > with a >ribbon wich nobody i have asked ever knew what was! > > Perhaps for keeping small personal belongings safe while they were in > the water? > __ > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 21:25:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAT2P42q016952 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:25:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT2ORTQ028795; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:24:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT2OLR2000844; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:24:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f87.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT2OIR2000792 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:24:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:24:13 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.32 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:24:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.32] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:24:13 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Nov 2003 02:24:13.0579 (UTC) FILETIME=[E13F9DB0:01C3B61F] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Viking dress from historiska.se X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a comment - and in no way to denigrate this material, they -do- draw some conclusions and make some assumptions in order to give AN answer to some questions (like which version of the "apron dress" they've elected to use, and using a design based on the Thorsbjerg trousers for the men's garment). These are fine hypotheses, but you might want to not assume that they are -fact- :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 21:38:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAT2ci2q017037 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:38:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT2cCTQ029559; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:38:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT2cBR2007395; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:38:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT2c8R2007375 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:38:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HP300HCLDZIP7@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:38:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:37:32 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Muppet fabric In-reply-to: <20031128223417.GA1916@net.indra.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031128183547.01f63cc0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:34 PM 11/28/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I'm looking for fabric with Kermit or other Muppets on it that is >suitable for making clothing. Anyone see anything like this out there >in your fabric shopping? > >Thanks, > ...eliz Hmmm... no, not lately, but I will keep an eye out for it. The closest item I have definitely seen lately is Muppet embroidery disks from Brother. They were on sale at my local JoAnns, whose store is closing. Now I have to drive 10+ miles to get to the next closest sewing store. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 22:53:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAT3rk2q017457 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 22:53:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT3r6TQ003650; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:53:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT3r4h4015500; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:53:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT3r1h4015479 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hAT3tKn04108 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:55:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:55:20 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200311290355.hAT3tKn04108@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens' Fair - who/where? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > Who on this list is working Dickens' Fair, or will be there in costume? We > ought to say hello to each other like we did at Costume College. You'll > know me - I'll be in costume ;) Looks like Jody, Z and I will be there this Sunday. I'll be in as much costume as I can manage, as I have absolutely no way to conceal my leg braces and wheelchair. I only have two pairs of shoes that fit over these braces, and neither of 'em are period. I've got high-top black sneakers and black and white spectator wingtips. I think I may wear the spectators just because. And my fuscia petticoat. ;} The big, foofy white cotton petticoat I think stays at home, because it'll just end up caught in my wheels. Time to dig up my rollers so I can curl the forepart of my hair. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 28 22:56:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAT3u62q017482 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 22:56:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT3tYTQ003829; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:55:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT3tYBW016661; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:55:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20210.mail.yahoo.com (web20210.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAT3tWBW016641 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:55:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031129035531.90816.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.182] by web20210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:55:31 EST Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:55:31 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] needlelace sources? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031128.064310.1888.9.Cley@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Cynthia J Ley wrote: > Can anyone recommend some good books or websites for learning to do > needlelace? I am especially interested in it as it would have been used > in medieval or Renaissance times. Was it done in England in the 14th > century? How was it used? > > Now that I'm on a new drug therapy for the arthritis, my hands have > gotten much better and I've been wanting to try it for quite some time. > It is so beautiful! > > thanks! > Hi Arlys, I'm just starting out learning about all forms of lace making myself, so I don't have too many books myself yet. I have the Reader's Digest Complete Guide to Needlecraft which is great for how-to on embroidery and lacemaking. I've also go the Dover book Needlemade Laces and Net Embroideries, which is a handy little book. Websites I've found helped are: And for a wonderful group of SCA lace-makers, who are very willing and able to answer all your questions.... Good luck! :) ===== **************************************** Lady Bella Lucia da Verona *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net *Courtesan Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ ***************************************** http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 01:27:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAT6RZ2q018133 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:27:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT6QrTQ012070; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:26:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT6QmOb029728; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:26:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT6QiOc029705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:26:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAT6S7UZ013428 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:28:08 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAT6S7cB013426 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:28:07 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Viking dress from historiska.se Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:28:07 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311290128.07556.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 28 November 2003 09:24 pm, Marc Carlson wrote: > Just a comment - and in no way to denigrate this material, they -do- draw > some conclusions and make some assumptions in order to give AN answer to > some questions (like which version of the "apron dress" they've elected to > use, and using a design based on the Thorsbjerg trousers for the men's > garment). These are fine hypotheses, but you might want to not assume that > they are -fact- :) I'm not. But there aren't a whole lot of "facts" in the area of Viking costume. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 01:28:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAT6SQ2q018137 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:28:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT6RsTQ012164; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:27:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT6RrOb000413; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:27:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT6RHOc029921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:27:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAT6SeUZ013443 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:28:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAT6Sei0013441 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:28:40 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:28:40 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200311280958.13086.cathy@thyrsus.com> <01a001c3b605$83edd740$9ff74a43@4gxif> In-Reply-To: <01a001c3b605$83edd740$9ff74a43@4gxif> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311290128.40278.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 28 November 2003 06:15 pm, Helen Pinto wrote: > Cathy Raymond wrote: > > I'd be more interested in this if I knew of a place where I could find > > linen > > > or other natural fiber sewing thread. The usual poly-cotton or polyester > > stuff is particularly nasty for handsewing. > > Linen sewing thread is readily available at places which sell bookbinding > supplies. Try Hewit's or Talas or Hollander's for linen thread by > Barbour. I think Hollanders may have the best variety. Using beeswax will > make it easier. Thanks for the tip. I found a couple of other places also. Thanks. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 01:56:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAT6u42q018234 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:56:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT6tVTQ013529; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:55:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT6tUhJ012792; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:55:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT6tQhJ012760 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:55:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28180 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:21:19 -0600 Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:21:19 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering In-Reply-To: <200311290128.40278.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 29 Nov 2003, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Friday 28 November 2003 06:15 pm, Helen Pinto wrote: > > Cathy Raymond wrote: > > > I'd be more interested in this if I knew of a place where I could find > > linen > > > or other natural fiber sewing thread. The usual poly-cotton or polyester > > > stuff is particularly nasty for handsewing. > > Thanks for the tip. I found a couple of other places also. Thanks. In case you haven't already found them, you might add Hedgehog Handworks to your list. I get linen thread there. Cotton thread is easy to find at regular sewing stores, and I get silk thread at quilting and needlework specialty shops. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 02:09:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAT7922q020143 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:09:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT78QTQ014015; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 00:08:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT78PhJ018219; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 00:08:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT78MhJ018178 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 00:08:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAT78GT16408 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:08:16 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:14:42 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <000b01c3a4a5$72917400$cb6afea9@shooie> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] information on early medieval weaving techniques X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, I have been trying to find out what kind of looms were used in France 500-800, with very little success. Does anyone know of a source for this info? Barber's book (20,000 Years of Women's Work) ends just about the time I need. Does anyone have contact information for her? I've scoured every online journal database at our library. Maybe I just don't have the right search terms. Would the Oseburg loom be an example of a corollary? It's north of the region, but the same approximate time period. I've read of archaeological evidence of looms in homes by way of post holes and warp weights being found, but haven't found any specific citations. Thanks! Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 03:56:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAT8u62q024023 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 03:56:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT8tOTQ019150; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:55:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT8tMGR006373; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:55:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAT8tKGR006363 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:55:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A2E52F924 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 00:59:00 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031126135742.053d5360@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20031126135742.053d5360@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens' Fair - who/where? Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 00:55:15 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll be working at the Dark Garden booth. You can't miss me -- I'll be in a red and white striped set, looking like a candy cane. .heather. On Nov 26, 2003, at 2:04 PM, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > Who on this list is working Dickens' Fair, or will be there in > costume? We ought to say hello to each other like we did at Costume > College. You'll know me - I'll be in costume ;) > > Saturdays I will be Mrs. Foote, the Fezziwig's Cockney cook, and will > be hanging around Fezziwig's (dancing place) in c1840 with a > bib-apron. The peppermints in my right-hand pocket are available to > anyone who can get them out of my pocket in character. > > Sundays I will be Mrs. Creesy the Yankee clipper ship captain's wife, > and will be at the Adventurer's Club. I will be wearing something > middle-class, and a blue bonnet with orange velvet "bluebells" when > outdoors. Indoors I will likely be doing macrame. At some point I > will be giving a short talk about the record-breaking 1851 voyage of > the 'Flying Cloud' (Mrs. Creesy was the navigator of her husband's > ship). > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 05:36:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hATAaP2q027895 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 05:36:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATAZbTQ023501; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 03:35:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATAZSmj016092; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 03:35:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATAZPmj016053 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 03:35:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-241.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.241]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATAYopf026570 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:34:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031129023107.05f5ecc0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:32:57 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >During the period I just saw an 1869 dress at Lacis (I had them haul it down off the wall so I could touch it) piped in bias. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 05:37:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hATAbO2q027902 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 05:37:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATAaiTQ023547; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 03:36:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATAaimj016662; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 03:36:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATAZPmj016057 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 03:35:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-241.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.241]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATAYoph026570 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:34:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031129023421.05f6e9d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:35:17 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens' Fair - who/where? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20031126135742.053d5360@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20031126135742.053d5360@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-Servercave-Metrics: net.indra.com 1183; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I'll be working at the Dark Garden booth. You can't miss me -- I'll be in >a red and white striped set, looking like a candy cane. My Sunday outfit, at least first weekend, has a puce hooded capelet and a bright yellow striped skirt with a bias ruffle of the same. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 07:23:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hATCNE2q028109 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 07:23:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATCMOTQ028344; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 05:22:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATCMLDp007404; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 05:22:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATCMGDp007343 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 05:22:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.96.201.18]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031129122206.GVDE2192.lakemtao03.cox.net@VMAAHQ>; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 07:22:06 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: , <75years@yahoogroups.com>, Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 07:22:00 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01c3b673$64166770$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] FW: Morgan Library's medieval prayer books at the Kimbell, Fort Worth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hATCNE2q028109 Status: RO Coming to an American museum (hopefully) near you: Subject: Morgan Library's medieval prayer books at the Kimbell, Fort Worth While the Morgan Library is undergoing renovations, they put together a traveling exhibition of 58 prayer books, "Painted Prayers," from their unique collection, and it's at the Kimbell Art Museum in Fort Worth until Jan. 18 and is scheduled later at the St. Louis Art Museum Oct. 2004-Jan. 2005 and Getty Museum Oct. 2005-Jan. 2006. http://www.kimbellart.org/exhibitions/exh_file.cfm?id=100 and http://www.morganlibrary.org/exhibitions/painted/html/index.html Among the often tiny treasures displayed are the DuBois Hours (1325), the Hours of Catherine of Cleves (1440), and the Farnese Hours (1546), and prayer books by the Bedford Master, Jean Fouquet, Simon Marmion, and Attavante degli Attavanti. Two books by Jean Poyet--The Hours of Henry VIII and the Prayer Book of Anne de Bretagne--are also show in an online exhibit, http://www.morganlibrary.org/exhibitions/online/html/index_1024.html The Morgan's online catalog, Corsair, links to details of the collection: http://corsair.morganlibrary.org/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local &Search_Arg=on+view+at+the+kimbell&Search_Code=CALL&CNT=75 (or click on http://tinyurl.com/wyst). As well, the Morgan has three other traveling exhibitions, one with 26 prints from the Picture Bible (ca. 1248), dismounted while the book is in conservation. http://www.morganlibrary.org/exhibitions/kings2/html/index.html ::Linda:: _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 08:15:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hATDFT2q028242 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:15:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATDEkTQ001214; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:14:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATDEgj4000260; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:14:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [199.170.68.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATDEdj4000201 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:14:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hATDKbuv021151; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:20:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:20:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] 10th century Norse costume To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 28 November 2003 07:54 am, Catherine Ussailis wrote: > Hey, what are all of you complaining about? Sewing by hand isn't so > bad. Wimps. ;-) You haven't seen my stitching. :-) Well, you know, practice makes perfect...! ;) > Sadly, there are no pictures of any costume on that page, but I'm sure if > you emailed them, theyd send you a picture, or at least some information. > I know you're doing 'Dublin', Nope, Sue Cleminger is doing "Dublin". I'm not there yet; I'm interested in other variations of Viking attire. :-) Sorry! I knew that there were two people doing Viking, but got you mixed up - I had deleted one and not the other, if that makes sense. I actually have another unrelated question for anyone who knows...I've searched and searched online and can't find the answer: what sort of underwear existed for women in the 12th century? I'm especially interested in bust support. I"ve noticed (in woodcuts and paintings) that women tend to have rather 'perkier' busts than I would have thought during that time period than if they had no support. Did the outer garments do this job? Thanks! Kate! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 08:31:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hATDVU2q028303 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:31:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATDTnTQ001905; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:29:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATDTlj4006952; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:29:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATDTjj4006928 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:29:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.104] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD87107100E2; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:22:15 -0500 Message-ID: <004a01c3b67d$7786dc40$685183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping question Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:34:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Great instructions here. I use blind string which is white. I have had the experience of the twine bleeding by perspiration dampness or in the wash; particularly on lighter fabrics. Of course there is twine and twine. I keep several sizes of cotton cord handy for this kind of project. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping question > You can make piping out of regular twine. I have this huge skein of cotton > twine I make piping out of all the time. > > Cut a strip of the dress fabric on the true bias longer than the waist or > neck or armseye...whichever you're doing... measurement. Make sure it has enough > width to have the right seam allowance. For instance, if you left 5/8ths SA at > the bottom of the bodice, you'll need 10/8 ths [1-1/4th"] plus the small > amount to cover the twine. The thickness of the twine will determine that extra > amount. Real 1840s gowns I've seen have very tiny piping in the armseye [a must, > every 19th century dress I've ever seen has piped armseyes. I usually just > use the same size as everywhere else though] and larger or double piping at the > waist and neck. > Put the zipper foot on your machine, fold the bias strip over the twine so > the raw edges of the SA are flush and run it through on a basting stitch close > to the twine. > > To apply it to the bodice, sew it with the piping on top [duh]. Line up the > SAs and stitch just to the twine side of the basting that holds the piping > together [so the basting won't show on the outside]....as close to the twine as > possible. Yes, you'll need to use the zipper foot. [if your SAs aren't even or > the same you'll have to hand baste it in place 1st]. > > On the armseye you can do this before the side seams are sewn. Carry the > piping to the edge of the side seam SA. Then the raw edges of the piping will be > caught in the side seam. [You can do this at the bodice bottom too making it > easier for alterations but this isn't period, just a handy theatrical trick.] > After the sides are sewn up, set in your sleeves. Try to sew them on the same > line of stitching that holds the piping. Hand basting them in 1st can make > things go much easier. > > To do the bottom of the bodice, with the side seams sewn up and pressed open, > find the center of the piping strip. Pinch it then hand tack it together for > about 1/16". This will give you a sharp point. Place the pinch at the point > of the CF point and hand baste the piping in place for a little ways on either > side. You'll need to clip the piping's SA at the point. This will insure a > neat, sharp point. Match up the SAs [or baste] and sew it one side at a time > starting at the point going to the CB. Remember to have the piping on top [a > little tricky on one side of the bodice] and sew just to the twine side of the > basting so it won't show. Take the piping to the end of the CB SA. > > You can leave extra length of piping at the CB for letting out the side > seams. This would require undoing the piping on the back pieces but is better than > piecing it at the sides. You just hide this extra length under the CB facings > [or self facings]. > > It is period to close the bodice CB with hooks and bars. I sometimes use flat > skirt hooks but this isn't a period hook. I also put a piece of plastic or > feather boning behind the hooks. It is also advisable to slip a small bone in > all 4 front darts, and bone the side seams too. You can do this all with Riglene > or feather boning. > > You can also use the SA of the piping at the waist and neck as their facings, > whip or cross stitching them neatly down. In the neck, slip a 1/8" twill tape > through the whipped down facing. [The ends can emerge through the whip > stitched edge before you get to the CB facing.]Use this to pull up the off the > shoulder neckline snugly. The bow you tie will be inside the bodice and any easing > can be distributed across the back and won't show. > > I've made a million of these, can you tell? I'm sure I can think of some > other little chores for you. Give me a moment.... How about a 3" or 4" strip of > commercial quilting hidden in the skirt hem? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 08:42:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hATDga2q028356 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:42:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATDdLTQ002264; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:39:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATDdIj4010766; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:39:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATDdGj4010748 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:39:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.104] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFC710B800E2; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:31:51 -0500 Message-ID: <006401c3b67e$ceb04960$685183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031128183547.01f63cc0@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Muppet fabric Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:43:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I suspect that since the Sesame Street scenes are so heavily copyrighted, that the fabric would only be available from the Muppet Corp. I can see the liscencing the piece for embroidery but not fabric. A different scale. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Muppet fabric > At 03:34 PM 11/28/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >I'm looking for fabric with Kermit or other Muppets on it that is > >suitable for making clothing. Anyone see anything like this out there > >in your fabric shopping? > > > >Thanks, > > ...eliz > > > Hmmm... no, not lately, but I will keep an eye out for it. The closest item > I have definitely seen lately is Muppet embroidery disks from Brother. They > were on sale at my local JoAnns, whose store is closing. Now I have to > drive 10+ miles to get to the next closest sewing store. > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 10:53:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hATFrF2q028814 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:53:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATFqTTQ009345; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:52:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATFqQVm015798; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:52:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATFqNVn015773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:52:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hATFrmUZ014672 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:53:48 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hATFrmiI014670 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:53:48 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:53:47 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311291053.47547.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 29 November 2003 03:21 am, Robin Netherton wrote: > In case you haven't already found them, you might add Hedgehog Handworks > to your list. I get linen thread there. > > Cotton thread is easy to find at regular sewing stores, and I get silk > thread at quilting and needlework specialty shops. Thanks. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 11:02:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hATG2p2q028841 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:02:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATG2GTQ009819; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:02:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATG2FVG020824; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:02:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATG2DVG020770 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:02:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m192.in-tch.com [216.166.191.192]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hATFelV00466 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:40:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FC8C39F.7F0032E9@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:04:47 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hadn't thought of Hedgehog, myself! I got some quantity of linen thread (actually intended for weaving) at a local store--the color's about what I want, for sewing on colored garments, but it's a bit stiff. For sewing on white garments (shifts, veils, etc.), I'm just going to use some of the linen thread I bought for lacemaking--white, not as stiff, and comes in a wider range of sizes. I got it through Lacemaker. --sue Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Sat, 29 Nov 2003, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > > On Friday 28 November 2003 06:15 pm, Helen Pinto wrote: > > > Cathy Raymond wrote: > > > > I'd be more interested in this if I knew of a place where I could find > > > linen > > > > or other natural fiber sewing thread. The usual poly-cotton or polyester > > > > stuff is particularly nasty for handsewing. > > > > Thanks for the tip. I found a couple of other places also. Thanks. > > In case you haven't already found them, you might add Hedgehog Handworks > to your list. I get linen thread there. > > Cotton thread is easy to find at regular sewing stores, and I get silk > thread at quilting and needlework specialty shops. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 11:21:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hATGLK2q028936 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:21:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATGKkTQ010857; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:20:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATGKjVG029839; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATGKhVG029772 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:20:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m192.in-tch.com [216.166.191.192]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hATFxIV07448 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:59:18 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FC8C7F6.F6D57C12@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:23:18 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering References: <200311281141.44687.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, I'm not making it for an event in the "it's a viking-themed event" or anything. I just mostly did that to give myself a sort-of deadline/reminder, since I'm doing lots of other textile-related (but not clothing) stuff at the moment. My colors and fabrics were just what I happened to have in my stash that also happened to form a more-or-less probable combination for the time (and the colors work well together!) So you waiting for the right colors makes lots of sense. And thank you, Ingrid, for all the great help and translating! What I'm working on will actually be more Danish- and Norwegian-influenced than Swedish, since I'm going with the theory that those influences would have been more dominant in the Dublin area. I have a number of friends, though, who do Swedish or eastern-viking stuff, so the site will be just perfect for them (plus, it's just plain cool, anyways!) --sue Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > I love nice browns. But I don't think they go very well with blue, and I'm > rather attached to making the tunic blue. Maybe the best thing to do (since, > unlike Sue, I'm not planning to do this for a particular event), is to > refrain from looking for fabric for the apron-dress until I've obtained the > wool I will use for the tunic. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 11:24:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hATGOY2q028949 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:24:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATGO1TQ011050; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATGO0VG001552; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hATGNvVG001486 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:23:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OjEtXGAvwl1Sdv/e4rUtzn4=">; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:23:13 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JF6TVFDR; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:23:13 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:17:40 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] needlelace sources? Message-ID: <20031129.082249.1876.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-35,38-69 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you everyone for the great lists! Arlys On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:55:31 +1100 (EST) =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= writes: > --- Cynthia J Ley wrote: > > Can anyone recommend some good books or websites for learning to do > > needlelace? I am especially interested in it as it would have been > used > > in medieval or Renaissance times. Was it done in England in the > 14th > > century? How was it used? > > > > Now that I'm on a new drug therapy for the arthritis, my hands have > > gotten much better and I've been wanting to try it for quite some > time. > > It is so beautiful! > > > > thanks! > > > > > Hi Arlys, > > > I'm just starting out learning about all forms of lace making > myself, so I don't have too many > books myself yet. I have the Reader's Digest Complete Guide to > Needlecraft which is great for > how-to on embroidery and lacemaking. I've also go the Dover book > Needlemade Laces and Net > Embroideries, which is a handy little book. Websites I've found > helped are: > > > > > > > And for a wonderful group of SCA lace-makers, who are very willing > and able to answer all your > questions.... > > > > Good luck! :) > > > > > ===== > **************************************** > Lady Bella Lucia da Verona > > *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net > *Courtesan Mailing List > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ > ***************************************** > > http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals > New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 12:41:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hATHfr2q029092 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 12:41:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATHeKTQ015286; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:40:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATHeDBd009013; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:40:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hATHeBBd008995 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:40:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-66-124-153-210.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net (HELO JBrendlingerLT.sbcglobal.net) (joycebre@sbcglobal.net@66.124.153.210 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2003 17:40:10 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20031129093734.038f7d30@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> X-Sender: joycebre@sbcglobal.net@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:40:13 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joyce Subject: Re: [h-cost] swim wear In-Reply-To: <200311290708.hAT78ahK018295@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hee hee. I was watching this at home, my ex brought my son home just as this scene started. We both spoke at the same time - I said "I wonder if he's going to take his shirt off". Ex said "I wonder if he's going to jump into that pool of stagnant water" Vive la difference -- Joyce At 12:08 AM 11/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Message: 8 >Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:08:21 -0800 >From: Heather Meadows >Subject: [h-cost] swim wear >To: Historical Costume >Message-ID: <860B8676-2208-11D8-88E9-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > >Colin Firth talked about this scene on NPR recently. I think it was an >interview with Terry Gross on Fresh Air. >Basically, they intended to do the scene with him nude, but there was >no way it could air that way (according to him), >and since he wouldn't have worn a swimsuit, he opted to jump in in his >clothing. > > >On Nov 28, 2003, at 1:24 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > > >>>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 11/27/03 7:27:46 PM >>> > > I wrote: > >> AFAIK men swam in the nude until the mid-19th century. > >> I had to smile at the famous "wet shirt" scene in the BBC's "Pride and > >> Prejudice" for this reason! > > > > and Bjarne asked > > > >> Are you sure there is such a scene in Pride and Prejudice, well i > > missed > >> that, i must go and look more precisely, > > > > It's in the Colin Firth version, when Elizabeth is visiting Darcy's > > house as a tourist with her aunt and uncle and he unexpectedly arrives > > home. He dismounts from his horse and pauses for a bathe in a lake in > > the grounds, leaving his shirt and breeches on, then on the way to the > > house all wet he bumps into Lizzy, to their mutual embarrassment. It > > caused much excitement among Colin Firth's female fans (well, he did > > make a gorgeous Darcy) but I couldn't help thinking that in real life > > he > > would have swum in the nude, which could have been even more > > embarrassing! > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 13:29:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hATIT62q029250 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:29:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATISRTQ018449; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:28:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATISPHZ002484; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:28:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATISMHZ002454 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:28:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hATISMAA005249 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:28:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.230] (tnt-1-294.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.230])hATISIRC005196 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:28:20 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:45:55 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] information on early medieval weaving techniques Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:14 PM -0800 11/28/03, Althea Turner wrote: >Greetings all, > >I have been trying to find out what kind of looms were used in >France 500-800, with very little success. Does anyone know of a >source for this info? Barber's book (20,000 Years of Women's Work) >ends just about the time I need. Does anyone have contact >information for her? I've scoured every online journal database at >our library. Maybe I just don't have the right search terms. > >Would the Oseburg loom be an example of a corollary? It's north of >the region, but the same approximate time period. I've read of >archaeological evidence of looms in homes by way of post holes and >warp weights being found, but haven't found any specific citations. There's an illustration of a loom in the 9th c. Utrecht Psalter, which gets it very roughly close to your time and place. (I tend to use it as an example of how careful you need to be depending on manuscript illustrations to reflect the contemporary culture because a close copy of the exact same illustration also appears in a significantly later manuscript.) It's an upright loom, somewhat similar to the Oseberg one, but constructed as part of a permanent roofed structure rather than free-standing. The illustration is a somewhat impressionistic line-drawing, so that's about as much detail as is available. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 14:16:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hATJGF2q029405 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:16:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATJFdTQ021215; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 12:15:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATJFbHD026740; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 12:15:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-f147.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.245.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hATJFYHD026694 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 12:15:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:14:10 -0800 Received: from 63.228.184.189 by by1fd.bay1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:14:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.228.184.189] X-Originating-Email: [elizabethstewartclark@hotmail.com] From: "Elizabeth Clark" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 12:14:10 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Nov 2003 19:14:10.0312 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7B74880:01C3B6AC] Subject: [h-cost] Piping X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >a must, every 19th century dress I've ever seen has piped armseyes.< While it's very, very common to have piped armscyes, it's not universal in the mid-century, at least. I've seen quite a few "everyday" sorts of dresses from the 1850s and 1860s (I realize you're speaking more 1840s, though, when it's very typical in many classes of garments) that do not have piping in the armscyes... the dresses tend to be cotton, and are otherwise fairly "bashed" together. Most dresses of better quality that I've handled did use piping. So, for instance, if I'm dressing someone in a very laboring-class garment, I might not use piping. For Madame's best dress, I do. Rather than say "always", I prefer to say that the majority of dresses tend to use piping to strengthen the armscyes, waist edges, neckline binding, and some sleeve bindings. Though, I'd rather see a repro dress that skips piping, than see the huge poly-cotton pre-made piping in contrasting colors! LOL Regards, Elizabeth http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com _________________________________________________________________ Is there a gadget-lover on your gift list? MSN Shopping has lined up some good bets! http://shopping.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 19:34:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAU0YO2q030609 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:34:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU0WgTQ008095; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:32:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU0WYxx029121; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:32:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt8.ihug.co.nz (grunt8.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU0WUxx029076 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:32:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from p192-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.192] by grunt8.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AQFVi-00067U-00; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:32:27 +1300 Message-ID: <003301c3b6d9$6b845920$c0c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:32:20 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Viking dress from historiska.se X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Warning: incredibly long post! *phew* But not any more as I'll be snipping it;) Thank you all so much for all this information/translation. I have been looking at some early norse garb that people have made and been sort of tempted by it.. But the red and blue outfit on this site.. wow. I am really keen to make my own version. I did read all the disclaimers (such as that this may be specifically what people were buried in, or worn for special occasions etc) and will then go whole hog with the pleated shift as well;) Or rather a quick and dirty way which is how I made a recent shift for a 16thC set of dresses. I am guessing the colours are are also based on analysis of the fragments? I'm not surprised by the colour at all;) But it's nice to see the two vibrant colours next to each other in one ensemble;) This site definately warrents further looking around;) I knew about it but lost the exact spelling;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 19:37:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAU0bq2q030615 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:37:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU0bKTQ008331; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:37:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU0bJxx001377; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:37:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU0bGxx001342 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:37:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from p192-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.192] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AQFaL-0002ia-00; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:37:14 +1300 Message-ID: <003701c3b6da$18c07e20$c0c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:37:11 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm just recouperating from recent events and the sewing frenzy that led up to them;) http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/annameyer.htm My hand sewn dress based of the sketch by Holbein of Anna Meyer for the Meyer Altarpiece. The actual painting is reference for the blackwork and some other details;) http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/cleves.htm Not a direct recreation of the Anne of Cleves portrait, but inspired by it (sleeves mostly) as well as a number of other contempraneous portraits/paintings. So that's what I've been up to and am very tired.. but getting ideas for next pieces of costume.... three more 16thC Northern Europe outfits, the Viking outfit, and a dress based on something Sarah Bernhardt wore in the 1880s for a play I believe... michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 23:10:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAU4AF2q031216 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 23:10:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU49UTQ020039; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:09:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU49R1A005329; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:09:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU49N1B005303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAU4AoUZ015787 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 23:10:50 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAU4AoI7015785 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 23:10:50 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 23:10:50 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <003701c3b6da$18c07e20$c0c0adcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <003701c3b6da$18c07e20$c0c0adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311292310.50374.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 29 November 2003 07:37 pm, michaela wrote: > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/cleves.htm > > Not a direct recreation of the Anne of Cleves portrait, but inspired by it > (sleeves mostly) as well as a number of other contempraneous > portraits/paintings. Just wanted to tell you how much I loved the Anne of Cleves dress. Very beautiful (and very striking with your coloring; I can hardly blame you for wearing your hair down with it!) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 29 23:57:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAU4vj2q031398 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 23:57:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU4v8TQ022879; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:57:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU4v4uv026396; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:57:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f76.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.76]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU4v1uv026247 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:56:56 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.88 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 04:56:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.88] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:56:56 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Nov 2003 04:56:56.0354 (UTC) FILETIME=[6119E020:01C3B6FE] Subject: [h-cost] Viking dress from historiska.se X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Catherine Olanich Raymond >I'm not. But there aren't a whole lot of "facts" in the area of Viking >costume. :-) Oh, I agree absolutely. That's the problem with trying to re-create things - how we fill in the gaps. (It's a major problem I find with shoemaking - we have about a third that we KNOW they did because of what we find, a third that is highly probable because of implied evidence here and there, and a third where God only knows). Marc _________________________________________________________________ online games and music with a high-speed Internet connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 00:04:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAU54a2q031465 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 00:04:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU53vTQ023208; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:03:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU53uuv029428; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:03:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAU53suv029378 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:03:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCul6cpEUfhwCbLVa/xolgEZirXgSJA6+MQ==">; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:02:49 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JF77CA53; Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:02:49 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 23:02:19 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering Message-ID: <20031129.230220.-339267.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,5-11,13-49 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That dress looks gorgeous! I think that you made good choices even if the teal color isn't typical of the period, it certainly suits your coloring. Drat. Now I have another gown style that I want to make. So many styles, so little time. *Sigh* Karen On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:37:11 +1300 "michaela" writes: > I'm just recouperating from recent events and the sewing frenzy that > led up > to them;) > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/annameyer.htm > > My hand sewn dress based of the sketch by Holbein of Anna Meyer for > the > Meyer Altarpiece. The actual painting is reference for the blackwork > and > some other details;) > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/cleves.htm > > Not a direct recreation of the Anne of Cleves portrait, but inspired > by it > (sleeves mostly) as well as a number of other contempraneous > portraits/paintings. > > So that's what I've been up to and am very tired.. but getting ideas > for > next pieces of costume.... three more 16thC Northern Europe outfits, > the > Viking outfit, and a dress based on something Sarah Bernhardt wore > in the > 1880s for a play I believe... > > michaela > http://costumes.glittersweet.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 05:27:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUAR22q010187 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:27:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUAP8TQ006408; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 03:25:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUAP5MA006099; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 03:25:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUAP1MA006055 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 03:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from p56-nas1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.210.56] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AQOl8-0002Oq-00; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:24:58 +1300 Message-ID: <002301c3b72c$319c0b60$38d2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031129.230220.-339267.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:24:52 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > That dress looks gorgeous! I think that you made good choices even if the > teal color isn't typical of the period, it certainly suits your coloring. Did you see the links I provided at the bottom? I do actually have a few there. The problem with blue based colours is how expensive the paint was. The dye is relatively easy and cheap to produce. There are also many more instances of teal in the art work of various painters as well. And it's a dye theat works on protein fibres (the tapestries are wool and silk.) There was a discussion on blues in the German Ren list some time back. We basically came to the conclusion that you seea lot of teal or grey blues but very rarely if at all (untouched by printers) more vibrant blues. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 05:30:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUAUr2q010254 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:30:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUAT5TQ006504; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 03:29:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUAT5MA007402; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 03:29:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt8.ihug.co.nz (grunt8.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUAT1MA007374 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 03:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from p102-nas15.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.206.230] by grunt8.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AQOp1-0004QR-00; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:28:59 +1300 Message-ID: <002901c3b72c$c2e509a0$38d2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003701c3b6da$18c07e20$c0c0adcb@michaela> <200311292310.50374.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:28:56 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/cleves.htm > > > > Not a direct recreation of the Anne of Cleves portrait, but inspired by it > > (sleeves mostly) as well as a number of other contempraneous > > portraits/paintings. > > Just wanted to tell you how much I loved the Anne of Cleves dress. Very > beautiful (and very striking with your coloring; I can hardly blame you for > wearing your hair down with it!) Thanks. As a single young lady I can get away with it anyway;) 'Course the actual age I really am would be a bit of a dissapointment to anyone really;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 10:07:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUF7I2q015931 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:07:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUF5STQ018742; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:05:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUF5PjT025403; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:05:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAUF5LjT025381 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:05:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031130150521.87253.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.3.157.157] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 07:05:21 PST Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 07:05:21 -0800 (PST) From: Kathy Hensley To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] web address X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Help! I can't get back into your site. I would like to modify my membership but for some reason you don't show up on my list of yahoo groups. Most frustrating. Many thanks, --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 10:36:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUFaZ2q016132 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:36:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUFYjTQ020250; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:34:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUFYijT007516; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:34:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from hiram.io.com (root@hiram.io.com [199.170.88.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUFYgjT007486 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:34:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.io.com (IDENT:9fsLXmtfWt1v68YXXxR8SB71XvUYzbIW@columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by hiram.io.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAUFYKt31389 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:34:30 -0600 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id hAUFXcQU023048 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:33:48 -0600 Received: from 24.1.95.156 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:33:48 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1968.24.1.95.156.1070206428.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:33:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] web address From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: In-Reply-To: <20031130150521.87253.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031130150521.87253.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is not a yahoo group. If you look at the footer of this email you will see the website address of http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume you should be able to get what you need there. Chiara Kathy Hensley said: > Help! I can't get back into your site. I would like to modify my > membership but for some reason you don't show up on my list of yahoo > groups. Most frustrating. Many thanks, > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 10:37:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUFbQ2q016138 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:37:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUFYuTQ020267; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:34:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUFYtjT007566; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:34:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUFYqjT007530 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a221.in-tch.com [66.62.107.21]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAUFDRV20260 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:13:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FCA0EB8.EA9DB47D@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:37:28 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering References: <20031129.230220.-339267.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Isn't that the way it always goes, though? This list is very, very dangerous for things like that--I never would have expected to go lusting after things like a mid-19th century day dress, or a sack-backed gown, or some of the fun North American/Colonial stuff. Now, dangitall, I *have* to make it, though I've nowhere to wear, and it's all the fault of *this list*! ;-P --sue seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > That dress looks gorgeous! I think that you made good choices even if the > teal color isn't typical of the period, it certainly suits your coloring. > > Drat. Now I have another gown style that I want to make. So many styles, > so little time. *Sigh* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 10:49:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUFnH2q016203 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:49:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUFlTTQ020722; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:47:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUFlSjT012720; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:47:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAUFlPjT012665 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:47:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCiuZO5DJngC4Kq8Fs9Sx0cso8N/Sue9kNg==">; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 07:46:58 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JF9B7SDH; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 07:46:58 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:46:16 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering Message-ID: <20031130.094617.-401887.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-13,15-18,20,22-27,29 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yep, I spent quite awhile surfing them. It's nice to see that shades of blue were used since you usually see the browny/goldy end of the color spectrum more often. I'm also glad that blues are good for early 16th century since I have coloring very much like yours and look like Death (and not in a good-Neil Gaiman sort of way) in most warm browns and golds. Karen On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:24:52 +1300 "michaela" writes: > > Did you see the links I provided at the bottom? I do actually have a > few there. The problem with blue based colours is how expensive the > paint was. The dye is relatively easy and cheap to produce. There are also > many more instances of teal in the art work of various painters as well. > > And it's a dye theat works on protein fibres (the tapestries are > wool and silk.) > > There was a discussion on blues in the German Ren list some time > back. We basically came to the conclusion that you seea lot of teal > or grey blues but very rarely if at all (untouched by printers) more vibrant > blues. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 11:08:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUG8r2q016350 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:08:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUG5cTQ021550; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:05:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUG5Zba020400; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:05:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUG5Xba020362 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:05:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F8A425CE for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:12:21 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FCA16BC.2070208@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:11:40 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wool vendor References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I may have found my wool... fabric.com has marked their remaining stock of coat wool down to $7.46 a yard, and combined with their free shipping offer it's a steal... Now to decide which color would look best with the dark peach lining. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 11:15:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUGFU2q016425 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:15:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUGDWTQ021890; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:13:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUGDVba023342; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:13:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAUGDTba023322 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:13:29 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031130161326.87532.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.251.232] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:13:26 PST Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 08:13:26 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FCA0EB8.EA9DB47D@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yup! I also found myself lusting after a lovely teal colored german style dress--in fact, have been looking over all those Lucas Cranach portraits all morning long when I'm supposed to be working on my Italians!!! Sigh! So many gorgeous costumnes to make ! Sooo little time! Albra (who enjoys everyone sharing just the same:) Sue Clemenger wrote: Isn't that the way it always goes, though? This list is very, very dangerous for things like that--I never would have expected to go lusting after things like a mid-19th century day dress, or a sack-backed gown, or some of the fun North American/Colonial stuff. Now, dangitall, I *have* to make it, though I've nowhere to wear, and it's all the fault of *this list*! ;-P --sue seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > That dress looks gorgeous! I think that you made good choices even if the > teal color isn't typical of the period, it certainly suits your coloring. > > Drat. Now I have another gown style that I want to make. So many styles, > so little time. *Sigh* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 11:21:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUGLp2q016441 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:21:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUGK5TQ022237; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUGK3ba025875; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:20:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUGK2ba025812 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.146.1d910433 (3858) for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:19:53 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <146.1d910433.2cfb72a9@aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:19:53 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Muppet fabric To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/29/2003 8:39:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: I suspect that since the Sesame Street scenes are so heavily copyrighted, that the fabric would only be available from the Muppet Corp. I can see the liscencing the piece for embroidery but not fabric. A different scale. Before Disney licensed their fabric for retail sale, I bought sheets to cut up. That might be what you would have to do for the Muppets, too. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 11:25:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUGPt2q016499 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:25:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUGO9TQ022355; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:24:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUGO8ba027372; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:24:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUGO5ba027323 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:24:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a221.in-tch.com [66.62.107.21]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAUG2eV07225 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:02:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FCA1A40.D5192AB1@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:26:40 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wool vendor References: <3FCA16BC.2070208@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, most of them would look good with a peach lining (except, maybe, the salt-and-pepper one). I'm gonna *have* to pry enough $ out of my budget for a few yards of the claret for a jacket for my flemish outfit.... --sue Dawn wrote: > > I may have found my wool... fabric.com has marked their remaining stock > of coat wool down to $7.46 a yard, and combined with their free shipping > offer it's a steal... > > Now to decide which color would look best with the dark peach lining. > > Dawn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 11:34:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUGYm2q016593 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:34:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUGWwTQ022744; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUGWvba000899; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:32:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUGWrba000836 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:32:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a238.in-tch.com [66.62.107.38]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAUGBSV10280 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:11:28 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FCA1C2E.CB7F18B2@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:34:54 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering References: <20031130161326.87532.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, absolutely! Whenever I'm feeling "stalled," or in a rut, there's always something cool going on, on this list. All I need to do is win the lottery so I could do all of this full time ;o) --sue Albra wrote: > > Yup! I also found myself lusting after a lovely teal colored german style dress--in fact, have been looking over all those Lucas Cranach portraits all morning long when I'm supposed to be working on my Italians!!! Sigh! So many gorgeous costumnes to make ! Sooo little time! > Albra > (who enjoys everyone sharing just the same:) > > Sue Clemenger wrote: > Isn't that the way it always goes, though? This list is very, very > dangerous for things like that--I never would have expected to go > lusting after things like a mid-19th century day dress, or a sack-backed > gown, or some of the fun North American/Colonial stuff. Now, dangitall, > I *have* to make it, though I've nowhere to wear, and it's all the fault > of *this list*! ;-P > --sue > > seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > > > That dress looks gorgeous! I think that you made good choices even if the > > teal color isn't typical of the period, it certainly suits your coloring. > > > > Drat. Now I have another gown style that I want to make. So many styles, > > so little time. *Sigh* > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 12:24:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUHOd2q017032 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:24:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUHMoTQ025240; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:22:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUHMm9l020642; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:22:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40902.mail.yahoo.com (web40902.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAUHMi9l020559 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:22:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031130172239.39000.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.105.108.132] by web40902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:22:39 PST Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:22:39 -0800 (PST) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Robin Netherton visits the Philadelphia area! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *********************************** This message may be forwarded to other email lists, provided it is copied in full, including this notice. *********************************** I'm pleased to announce that Robin Netherton, an independent scholar specializing in medieval clothing, will visit the Philadelphia, PA area on Saturday, February 28, 2004 for a series of lectures about feminine clothing styles of the 14th and 15th centuries. Ms. Netherton will present five signature lectures: The Gothic Fitted Dress The Greenland Gored Gown Will the Real Sideless Surcote Please Stand Up? The 15th-Century V-Neck Gown The Problem of Women's Heraldic Dress The day begins with a casual breakfast reception at 9am followed by Ms. Netherton's slide-enhanced lectures starting at 10am sharp and going until dinnertime. Small breaks between lectures and a lunch break are included. The beautiful Bryn Mawr College campus provides the setting for this day of learning and information exchange. For more details, see http://www.cottesimple.com/robin_netherton/lecture_info.htm *** Admission to this event is by advance registration only. There will be no at-door admissions. Reserve your space early! *** -Tasha Kelly McGann ===== ***Updated as of November 1, 2003: Aumônière-mania!*** http://www.cottesimple.com An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 13:04:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUI4X2q017207 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:04:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUI2jTQ028167; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:02:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUI2XFu010148; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:02:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUI2UFv010107 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:02:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAUI3wUZ028613 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:03:59 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAUI3wTm028611 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:03:58 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:03:58 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031129.230220.-339267.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> <002301c3b72c$319c0b60$38d2adcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <002301c3b72c$319c0b60$38d2adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311301303.58486.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 30 November 2003 05:24 am, michaela wrote: > > That dress looks gorgeous! I think that you made good choices even if the > > teal color isn't typical of the period, it certainly suits your coloring. > > Did you see the links I provided at the bottom? I do actually have a few > there. I did. I agree that the color was certainly attainable with fabric dyes; my only doubt was how commonly it was actually used. :-) >The problem with blue based colours is how expensive the paint was. > The dye is relatively easy and cheap to produce. Really? I had not heard that argument before. Do you have a source for that? [snip] > There was a discussion on blues in the German Ren list some time back. We > basically came to the conclusion that you see a lot of teal or grey blues > but very rarely if at all (untouched by printers) more vibrant blues. Gray blues are one thing. But I think the color of your dress (which we are calling a "teal" blue) is pretty vibrant. :-) Thanks for the extra information. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 13:58:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUIwu2q017580 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:58:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUIv1TQ001391; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUIuwjY005239; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:56:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUIuujY005173 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.96.201.18]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031130185646.TGDN2192.lakemtao03.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:56:46 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:56:38 -0500 Message-ID: <000101c3b773$b23d7500$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hAUIuujY005173 Subject: [h-cost] Yard Sale books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all! Yesterday my guy came home with a tub full of books. Seems he had run across a yard sale and stopped to see what they had. He didn't get much for himself, but he picked up these for me because he knows I like costumes. Yowza! Some of them I know, many of them I've never heard of since I'm not really into theatrical costuming. Plus, they are all from the '70's which is a quite a bit before I started collecting books. And I thought he hadn't been paying attention! ;o> Here's the list, I would really appreciate any feedback/opinions on any of them. They all look interesting so I will keep them, sorry! (Books and fabric are my neurotic obsessions!) Besides, he only paid $8.00 for the whole box. Thanks bunches! ::Linda:: *************************************** The Book of Costume- Millia Davenport 1976- ISBN-0517037165 single volume edition- (2 copies) Slightly worn (hb) English Costume of the Seventeenth Century- Iris Brooke 1977- ISBN-0713601574 Like new (hb) A Handbook of Costume- Janet Arnold 1973- ISBN-0333244893 Very Good (ppb) Patterns of Fashion 1660-1860- Janet Arnold 1977- ISBN-0910482500 Very Good (ppb) The Costumer's Handbook- Rosemary Ingham/Elizabeth Covey 1980- ISBN-0131812556 Some wear (ppb) Making Costumes for Plays- Joan Peters/Anna Sutcliffe 1977- ISBN-0713400293 Very Good (hb) Dress and Undress- Elizabeth Ewing 1978- ISBN-0896760006 Very Good (hb) Basic Pattern Drafting for the Theatrical Costume Designer- Shaw 1974- ISBN-0910482497 Very Good (spiral) Designing and Making Stage Costumes- Motley 1974- ISBN-0823013197 Good- written in Ackermann's Costume Plates 1818 to 1828 1978- ISBN-0486236900 Like New _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 14:22:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUJM42q017713 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:22:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUJLQTQ002830; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:21:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUJLPjY016838; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:21:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUJLNjY016813 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:21:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) 1.0) with SMTP id hAUJLLcx007938 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:21:22 -0500 (EST) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:21:33 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200311301900.hAUJ0cja006901@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] RE: yard sale books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Your books are totally worthless, Linda. Sell them all to me for $12 and make a huge profit? (he he) Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 15:03:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUK3o2q017850 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:03:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUK1qTQ005038; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:01:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUK1oxx007511; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:01:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUK1lxx007500 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:01:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from computer ([151.198.11.106]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20031130200147.RINN6358.out002.verizon.net@computer> for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:01:47 -0600 Message-ID: <001d01c3b785$927ced60$6a0bc697@computer> From: "EIW" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031129.230220.-339267.0.Seamstrix@juno.com><002301c3b72c$319c0b60$38d2adcb@michaela> <200311301303.58486.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:04:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [151.198.11.106] at Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:01:41 -0600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, sorry...I came into the discussion a little late (Thanksgiving and all). Is the subject the color blue and was it used in a particular time in history? Perhaps I can help, I am a student of art history and did a paper on the color blue. Let me know. Elizabeth http://www.elizabethsartofdress.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering > On Sunday 30 November 2003 05:24 am, michaela wrote: > > > That dress looks gorgeous! I think that you made good choices even if the > > > teal color isn't typical of the period, it certainly suits your coloring. > > > > Did you see the links I provided at the bottom? I do actually have a few > > there. > > I did. I agree that the color was certainly attainable with fabric dyes; my > only doubt was how commonly it was actually used. :-) > > >The problem with blue based colours is how expensive the paint was. > > The dye is relatively easy and cheap to produce. > > Really? I had not heard that argument before. Do you have a source for that? > > > [snip] > > There was a discussion on blues in the German Ren list some time back. We > > basically came to the conclusion that you see a lot of teal or grey blues > > but very rarely if at all (untouched by printers) more vibrant blues. > > Gray blues are one thing. But I think the color of your dress (which we are > calling a "teal" blue) is pretty vibrant. :-) > > Thanks for the extra information. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 16:12:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAULCP2q018087 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:12:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULBpTQ009511; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:11:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULBnk6015600; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:11:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (smtp2.surewest.net [208.45.228.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAULBkk6015508 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:11:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 18367 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2003 21:11:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.11) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2003 21:11:41 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031130130958.00bea6a0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:11:38 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yard Sale books In-Reply-To: <000101c3b773$b23d7500$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2 SNWK2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow! He found a wonderful bargain. Any one of the good references is worth *much* more than he paid for the boxful. Congratulations! Joan in Sacramento, CA At 01:56 PM 11/30/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Hi all! > >Yesterday my guy came home with a tub full of books. Seems he had run >across a yard sale and >stopped to see what they had. He didn't get much for himself, but he >picked up these for me because >he knows I like costumes. Yowza! Some of them I know, many of them I've >never heard of since I'm >not really into theatrical costuming. Plus, they are all from the '70's >which is a quite a bit >before I started collecting books. > >And I thought he hadn't been paying attention! ;o> > >Here's the list, I would really appreciate any feedback/opinions on any of >them. They all look >interesting so I will keep them, sorry! (Books and fabric are my neurotic >obsessions!) Besides, he >only paid $8.00 for the whole box. > >Thanks bunches! > >::Linda:: >*************************************** >The Book of Costume- Millia >Davenport 1976- ISBN-0517037165 >single volume edition- (2 copies) Slightly worn (hb) > >English Costume of the Seventeenth Century- Iris Brooke 1977- >ISBN-0713601574 >Like new (hb) > >A Handbook of Costume- Janet Arnold 1973- >ISBN-0333244893 >Very Good (ppb) > >Patterns of Fashion 1660-1860- Janet >Arnold 1977- ISBN-0910482500 >Very Good (ppb) > >The Costumer's Handbook- Rosemary Ingham/Elizabeth Covey 1980- >ISBN-0131812556 >Some wear (ppb) > >Making Costumes for Plays- Joan Peters/Anna >Sutcliffe 1977- ISBN-0713400293 >Very Good (hb) > >Dress and Undress- Elizabeth >Ewing 1978- ISBN-0896760006 >Very Good (hb) > >Basic Pattern Drafting for the Theatrical Costume Designer- Shaw 1974- >ISBN-0910482497 >Very Good (spiral) > >Designing and Making Stage Costumes- >Motley 1974- ISBN-0823013197 >Good- written in > >Ackermann's Costume Plates 1818 to >1828 1978- ISBN-0486236900 >Like New > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 16:20:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAULKE2q018146 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:20:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULILTQ009957; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:18:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULILk6019147; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:18:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULIHk6019079 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:18:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.96.201.18]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031130211806.ULMF2192.lakemtao03.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:18:06 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: yard sale books Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:17:56 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c3b787$6fdb5920$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hAULIHk6019079 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Really, Martha? Gosh, ok! (She says, in her best Victoria Jackson voice while shaking her blonde hair from side to side) ;o> Actually, I looked them up on AddAll, so I have a good ballpark figure of their worth. BUT, what I was wondering is how 'good' are some of the more obscure titles. I know that the Arnold books are a treasure, as is the Davenport. Funny, but the Iris Brooks is in the best condition of all of them, so I guess the owner knew to not rely on it too! Can anyone say if the single edition of Davenport is as good as the 2 volume set? When we were talking about it a few weeks ago I *almost* bought a used set then but decided to wait. If the 1 vs. 2 books comparison was made, I'm sorry but I must have missed it. I made my guy take me back over to the house this morning to see if they were going to put anything out today. No luck! (Jeez, you'd think that if this lady had costuming books, she'd have fabric too!) Thanks! ::Linda:: -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Martha Kelly Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 2:22 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] RE: yard sale books Your books are totally worthless, Linda. Sell them all to me for $12 and make a huge profit? (he he) Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 16:22:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAULMd2q018154 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:22:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULKfTQ010163; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:20:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULKek6020563; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:20:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULKck6020545 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:20:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip149.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.149]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C676E6DB9B for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:20:32 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:20:38 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yard Sale books Message-ID: <3FC9EEA6.14127.2FDFAB2@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000101c3b773$b23d7500$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > *************************************** > The Book of Costume- Millia Davenport > 1976- ISBN-0517037165 single volume edition- (2 copies) Slightly > worn (hb) Excellent reference. Often quite expensive if not nearly falling apart. > English Costume of the Seventeenth Century- Iris Brooke > 1977- ISBN-0713601574 Like new (hb) Iris Brooke. That says it all. (Meant for the theatre, not really useful for historical nowadays.) > A Handbook of Costume- Janet Arnold 1973- ISBN-0333244893 Very > Good (ppb) This is a find. It can be difficult to find this and when you do it's usually quite pricey. Lots of good information about how to research clothing. > Patterns of Fashion 1660-1860- Janet Arnold > 1977- ISBN-0910482500 Very Good (ppb) Not my favorite tiem period, but it is an excellent book. > The Costumer's Handbook- Rosemary Ingham/Elizabeth Covey 1980- > ISBN-0131812556 Some wear (ppb) This one was later renamed "Costumer Technician's Handbook". It is the more useful of the books (the other is the "Costume Designer's Handbook.) It has a lot of explanations for things like how to draft a body block (for men, women, pants, skirts, etc.) Most of the pattern drafting books (except for Bob Trump's Doublet and Trunkhose book) talk about how to draft a woman's pattern. This one actually shows how to do it for a man as well. It also briefly discusses useful techniques such as cartridge pleating. > Making Costumes for Plays- Joan Peters/Anna Sutcliffe > 1977- ISBN-0713400293 Very Good (hb) Theatrical, not historical based. > Dress and Undress- Elizabeth Ewing 1978- ISBN-0896760006 Very > Good (hb) She has two about the history of underclothes. One is horrible and the other is ok but not great. I can't remember which one this is. > Basic Pattern Drafting for the Theatrical Costume Designer- Shaw > 1974- ISBN-0910482497 Very Good (spiral) Even if it is theatrical, it's always nice to know how to draft. It can help you when you find out how the actual historical costume was constructed as you can use the pattern drafting and draping techniques you learn from it. > Designing and Making Stage Costumes- Motley 1974- > ISBN-0823013197 Good- written in Theatrical, not historical based. > Ackermann's Costume Plates 1818 to 1828 > 1978- ISBN-0486236900 Like New Not my time period, but I've heard it's useful. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 16:25:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAULPt2q018178 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:25:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULO4TQ010428; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:24:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULO3k6022517; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULNwk6022448 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:23:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip149.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.149]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 337D06A415 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:17:22 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:24:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: yard sale books Message-ID: <3FC9EF72.968.30115AE@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000601c3b787$6fdb5920$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Can anyone say if the single edition of Davenport is as good as the 2 > volume set? When we were talking about it a few weeks ago I *almost* > bought a used set then but decided to wait. If the 1 vs. 2 books > comparison was made, I'm sorry but I must have missed it. They are basically the same book, just the two volumes were bound as one. In fact, you can look through the book and see exactly where one book ends and the other begins. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 16:31:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAULVm2q018208 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:31:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULV9TQ010933; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:31:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULV8k6026470; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:31:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULV5k7026420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:31:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAULWZUZ029728 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:32:35 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAULWZco029726 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:32:35 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yard Sale books Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:32:34 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <000101c3b773$b23d7500$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> In-Reply-To: <000101c3b773$b23d7500$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311301632.34779.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 30 November 2003 01:56 pm, Linda Rice wrote: > Here's the list, I would really appreciate any feedback/opinions on any of > them. They all look interesting so I will keep them, sorry! (Books and > fabric are my neurotic obsessions!) Besides, he only paid $8.00 for the > whole box. [snip] I agree with Joan--$8.00 for these is a good deal, even though some are much more useful than others. My two cents about the items: > *************************************** > The Book of Costume- Millia Davenport > 1976- ISBN-0517037165 single volume edition- (2 copies) Slightly worn > (hb) Excellent general survey, with tons of photos of costume in period art. A classic of its kind. > English Costume of the Seventeenth Century- Iris Brooke 1977- > ISBN-0713601574 Like new (hb) I'm not familiar with this particular book, but in general Brooke's illustrations tend to be redrawings of period art, she seldom states her sources or provides references for her conclusions about them. > A Handbook of Costume- Janet Arnold 1973- ISBN-0333244893 > Very Good (ppb) I have heard of this book but never actually seen a copy. By and large, though, Arnold's books tend to be very informative and useful. > > Patterns of Fashion 1660-1860- Janet Arnold > 1977- ISBN-0910482500 Very Good (ppb) I have this one. The text is excellent; can't speak to the patterns as I have never tried to scale them up to a usable size. > > The Costumer's Handbook- Rosemary Ingham/Elizabeth Covey 1980- > ISBN-0131812556 Some wear (ppb) Geared for the theatre, not historic costume. > Making Costumes for Plays- Joan Peters/Anna Sutcliffe > 1977- ISBN-0713400293 Very Good (hb) > > Dress and Undress- Elizabeth Ewing 1978- ISBN-0896760006 > Very Good (hb) > > Basic Pattern Drafting for the Theatrical Costume Designer- Shaw 1974- > ISBN-0910482497 Very Good (spiral) > > Designing and Making Stage Costumes- Motley 1974- ISBN-0823013197 > Good- written in Can't really speak to these as I don't have copies. > > Ackermann's Costume Plates 1818 to 1828 > 1978- ISBN-0486236900 Like New Interesting book of reproductions of period plates; very useful if you are interested in the period. I note that the Davenport is out of print and I've never seen the set, either the one volume edition or otherwise, for less than $40. Arnold's books tend to run $35-$40 new. So you got a real deal! (I recommend that you do something very nice for your husband as a reward to him for having paid enough attention to know that he should bring these home.) :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 16:33:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAULXv2q018212 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:33:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULXITQ011163; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:33:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULXHk6027741; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:33:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULXEk7027701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:33:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAULYiUZ029757 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:34:44 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAULYit6029755 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:34:44 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: yard sale books Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:34:44 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <000601c3b787$6fdb5920$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> In-Reply-To: <000601c3b787$6fdb5920$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311301634.44174.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 30 November 2003 04:17 pm, Linda Rice wrote: [snip] > I made my guy take me back over to the house this morning to see if they > were going to put anything out today. No luck! > (Jeez, you'd think that if this lady had costuming books, she'd have fabric > too!) She may not have been a costumer herself; maybe these are part of an inheritance from a mother or aunt. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 16:34:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAULYA2q018217 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:34:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULSaTQ010785; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:28:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULSZk6025056; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:28:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULSWk6024970 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:28:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.96.201.18]) by lakemtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031130212815.SRZB2297.lakemtao02.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:28:15 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Yard Sale books Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:28:13 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c3b788$df8d71d0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FC9EEA6.14127.2FDFAB2@localhost> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Kat, this is just what I needed to know! Actually, the Shaw book, _Basic Pattern Drafting for the Theatrical Costume Designer_ has really good, clear illustrations. I can see learning a lot from it! ::Linda:: *************************************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 16:46:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAULkB2q018237 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:46:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULjNTQ012139; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:45:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULjGk6005349; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAULj7k6005102 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:45:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdhoover (12-225-18-223.client.attbi.com[12.225.18.223]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2003113021450001500ppn08e>; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:45:00 +0000 Message-ID: <009b01c3b78a$fcabe740$df12e10c@attbi.com> From: "dshoover" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000101c3b773$b23d7500$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yard Sale books Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:43:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Eight dollars? Good grief why can't I find garage sales like that. There is over two hundred dollars if not more, worth of books there. Tell your husband he did a good lob. Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Rice" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:56 AM Subject: [h-cost] Yard Sale books > Hi all! > > Yesterday my guy came home with a tub full of books. Seems he had run across a yard sale and > stopped to see what they had. He didn't get much for himself, but he picked up these for me because > he knows I like costumes. Yowza! Some of them I know, many of them I've never heard of since I'm > not really into theatrical costuming. Plus, they are all from the '70's which is a quite a bit > before I started collecting books. > > And I thought he hadn't been paying attention! ;o> > > Here's the list, I would really appreciate any feedback/opinions on any of them. They all look > interesting so I will keep them, sorry! (Books and fabric are my neurotic obsessions!) Besides, he > only paid $8.00 for the whole box. > > Thanks bunches! > > ::Linda:: > *************************************** > The Book of Costume- Millia Davenport 1976- ISBN-0517037165 > single volume edition- (2 copies) Slightly worn (hb) > > English Costume of the Seventeenth Century- Iris Brooke 1977- ISBN-0713601574 > Like new (hb) > > A Handbook of Costume- Janet Arnold 1973- ISBN-0333244893 > Very Good (ppb) > > Patterns of Fashion 1660-1860- Janet Arnold 1977- ISBN-0910482500 > Very Good (ppb) > > The Costumer's Handbook- Rosemary Ingham/Elizabeth Covey 1980- ISBN-0131812556 > Some wear (ppb) > > Making Costumes for Plays- Joan Peters/Anna Sutcliffe 1977- ISBN-0713400293 > Very Good (hb) > > Dress and Undress- Elizabeth Ewing 1978- ISBN-0896760006 > Very Good (hb) > > Basic Pattern Drafting for the Theatrical Costume Designer- Shaw 1974- ISBN-0910482497 > Very Good (spiral) > > Designing and Making Stage Costumes- Motley 1974- ISBN-0823013197 > Good- written in > > Ackermann's Costume Plates 1818 to 1828 1978- ISBN-0486236900 > Like New > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 18:09:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUN9E2q018566 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:09:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUN8YTQ018498; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:08:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUN8WdO018379; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:08:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (sea1-f31.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAUN8SdO018320 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:08:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:08:23 -0800 Received: from 207.68.52.141 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:08:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.68.52.141] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] information on early medieval weaving techniques Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:08:23 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Nov 2003 23:08:23.0529 (UTC) FILETIME=[DA7FC590:01C3B796] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dr. Barber was one of my professors at Occidental College in Eagle Rock, CA, but that was twenty years ago so I don't know if she's still there. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: Heather Rose Jones >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] information on early medieval weaving techniques >Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:45:55 -0800 > >At 11:14 PM -0800 11/28/03, Althea Turner wrote: >>Greetings all, >> >>I have been trying to find out what kind of looms were used in France >>500-800, with very little success. Does anyone know of a source for this >>info? Barber's book (20,000 Years of Women's Work) ends just about the >>time I need. Does anyone have contact information for her? I've scoured >>every online journal database at our library. Maybe I just don't have the >>right search terms. >> _________________________________________________________________ Groove on the latest from the hot new rock groups! Get downloads, videos, and more here. http://special.msn.com/entertainment/wiredformusic.armx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 20:56:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB11uT2q019123 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:56:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB11tdTQ001202; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:55:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB11tYaQ021128; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:55:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13401.mail.yahoo.com (web13401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB11tUaQ021092 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:55:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201015530.32269.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.49.7.219] by web13401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:55:30 PST Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:55:30 -0800 (PST) From: Mara Riley To: revwarcostume@yahoogroups.com, FandIWomen List , 1812Civilian <1812civilian@yahoogroups.com>, 18thCWoman List <18cWoman@yahoogroups.com>, 19CWoman List <19cwoman@yahoogroups.com>, Authentic Fabric , H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Speaking of looms -- Ebay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anyone looking for a Christmas present? A friend of mine is selling some of her weaving stuff on Ebay: > Lustina Counterbalance Loom and Accessories > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3125&item=2363497734 > > Medieval Replica Warp-Weighed Loom > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2363512373 > Vintage 1957 English Tabby Loom and Booklet > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2363503006&category=3125& > rd=1 You can search by seller "kass1013" if the above links don't work. - Mara __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 21:22:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB12Mk2q019234 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:22:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB12METQ003208; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:22:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB12MBaQ006642; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:22:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB12M8aQ006607 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:22:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201022208.83324.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.251.232] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:22:08 PST Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:22:08 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yard Sale books To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000101c3b773$b23d7500$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow!! What a lucky find! Lots of good useful titles in there! congrats --and enjoy! Albra Linda Rice wrote: Hi all! Yesterday my guy came home with a tub full of books. Seems he had run across a yard sale and stopped to see what they had. He didn't get much for himself, but he picked up these for me because he knows I like costumes. Yowza! Some of them I know, many of them I've never heard of since I'm not really into theatrical costuming. Plus, they are all from the '70's which is a quite a bit before I started collecting books. And I thought he hadn't been paying attention! ;o> Here's the list, I would really appreciate any feedback/opinions on any of them. They all look interesting so I will keep them, sorry! (Books and fabric are my neurotic obsessions!) Besides, he only paid $8.00 for the whole box. Thanks bunches! ::Linda:: *************************************** The Book of Costume- Millia Davenport 1976- ISBN-0517037165 single volume edition- (2 copies) Slightly worn (hb) English Costume of the Seventeenth Century- Iris Brooke 1977- ISBN-0713601574 Like new (hb) A Handbook of Costume- Janet Arnold 1973- ISBN-0333244893 Very Good (ppb) Patterns of Fashion 1660-1860- Janet Arnold 1977- ISBN-0910482500 Very Good (ppb) The Costumer's Handbook- Rosemary Ingham/Elizabeth Covey 1980- ISBN-0131812556 Some wear (ppb) Making Costumes for Plays- Joan Peters/Anna Sutcliffe 1977- ISBN-0713400293 Very Good (hb) Dress and Undress- Elizabeth Ewing 1978- ISBN-0896760006 Very Good (hb) Basic Pattern Drafting for the Theatrical Costume Designer- Shaw 1974- ISBN-0910482497 Very Good (spiral) Designing and Making Stage Costumes- Motley 1974- ISBN-0823013197 Good- written in Ackermann's Costume Plates 1818 to 1828 1978- ISBN-0486236900 Like New _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 21:37:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB12bv2q019305 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:37:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB12bOTQ004436; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:37:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB12bMaQ014982; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:37:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB12bJaQ014924 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:37:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3EA7425CE for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:44:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FCAAAD2.6080904@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:43:30 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) References: <20031129.230220.-339267.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> <002301c3b72c$319c0b60$38d2adcb@michaela> <200311301303.58486.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200311301303.58486.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>The problem with blue based colours is how expensive the paint was. >>The dye is relatively easy and cheap to produce. > > > Really? I had not heard that argument before. Do you have a source for that? > Jumping in here... I have _The Way Howe to Lymne_ from a V&A exhibit of Tudor portrait miniatures. There is some discussion of pigments in the 2nd half of the book, based on examinations of the portraits and from 4 treatises on limning, one of which was written by Nicholas Hilliard (though I can't find a date mentioned in the text here). A pigment known as 'bice' was "the brilliant blue made from azurite which was normally used for the backgrounds of miniatures until the 16th century." There was also "a dull blue pigment made from cobalt glass" called 'smalt'. 'Ultramarine' "is made from the rare mineral lapis lazuli which, in the sixteenth century, made the long journey to western europe from Afghanistan via the trade centre of Venice..." The book says Indigo was "made from a plant dye imported from the Orient." 'Florey' was the color made from woad "sometimes stained onto a white base to make a lighter blue." In the case of the azurite and lapis lazuli, the stones would have been ground fine, heated to remove impurities, and put through a laborous process of mixing them with oils or paste and washing the mixture to extract the color into water, which would then evaporate to leave pure color pigment. As I recall from my art history classes, the rare blue lapis pigments were usually reserved for the dress of the Virgin Mary during medieval times. This book says that lapis became more available in the 1600's due to increased trade. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 22:46:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB13kV2q019582 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:46:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB13ibTQ009548; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:44:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB13iYHm020470; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:44:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt9.ihug.co.nz (grunt9.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB13iOHm020386 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:44:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from p21-max20.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.161.85] by grunt9.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AQeyx-0001Fz-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:44:20 +1300 Message-ID: <002601c3b7bd$66d25c30$55a176cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031130.094617.-401887.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:44:18 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Yep, I spent quite awhile surfing them. It's nice to see that shades of > blue were used since you usually see the browny/goldy end of the color > spectrum more often. I'm also glad that blues are good for early 16th > century since I have coloring very much like yours and look like Death > (and not in a good-Neil Gaiman sort of way) in most warm browns and > golds. Yeah, for years I thought blue made me look like death not even warmed up.. but for some reason it changed a few years ago. So when we realised various shades of blue are perfectly acceptable for this particular era/area... *voooooooooooooommmmmmmmmm* was the sound of me snatching up some curtains;) The Germans seem very fond of vibtant coloursa ctually.. yellows, oranges, greens, reds, a few blues. Not to mention the brocades... Colour tarts the lot of them;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 22:50:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB13ou2q019591 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:50:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB13n7TQ009876; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB13n7Hm022980; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB13n2Hm022922 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from p21-max20.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.161.85] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AQf3R-0001g9-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:48:57 +1300 Message-ID: <003001c3b7be$0c9b4f00$55a176cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031130161326.87532.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:48:57 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Yup! I also found myself lusting after a lovely teal colored german style dress--in fact, have been looking over all those Lucas Cranach portraits all morning long when I'm supposed to be working on my Italians!!! Sigh! So many gorgeous costumnes to make ! Sooo little time! *whispers* doitdoitdoitdoitdoit.. Like the nike ad says;) Just do it;) mwahahahah... like with the Viking garb on historiska the brighter the better;) Seriously though, if the fabric comes your way, and it's a good deal, don't turn it down. Do you ever work on two different styles? It helps me be able to actually work and get things done by distracting when a bit of bordom/frustration sets in;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 23:15:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB14FC2q019653 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:15:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB14DFTQ011542; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:13:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB14DEKY006481; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:13:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB14DCKY006451 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:13:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09029 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:39:13 -0600 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:39:13 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) In-Reply-To: <3FCAAAD2.6080904@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, Dawn wrote: > As I recall from my art history classes, the rare blue lapis pigments > were usually reserved for the dress of the Virgin Mary during medieval > times. This book says that lapis became more available in the 1600's > due to increased trade. That was a typical use, but extremely fine manuscripts used lapis elsewhere too. The Duc de Berry's manuscripts are loaded with ultramarine blue. In Baxandall's book on painting in 15th c. Italy, there are citations of contracts with painters in which payment is based on the quantity of ultramarine to be used in the artwork. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 30 23:57:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB14vh2q019853 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:57:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB14uvTQ014272; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:56:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB14utrH029436; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:56:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB14uorI029392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:56:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB14wKUZ032357 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:58:21 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB14wHA6032355 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:58:17 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:58:17 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031129.230220.-339267.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> <200311301303.58486.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FCAAAD2.6080904@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3FCAAAD2.6080904@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311302358.17463.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 30 November 2003 09:43 pm, Dawn wrote: > >>The problem with blue based colours is how expensive the paint was. > >>The dye is relatively easy and cheap to produce. > > > > Really? I had not heard that argument before. Do you have a source for > > that? > > Jumping in here... > > I have _The Way Howe to Lymne_ from a V&A exhibit of Tudor portrait > miniatures. There is some discussion of pigments in the 2nd half of the > book, based on examinations of the portraits and from 4 treatises on > limning, one of which was written by Nicholas Hilliard (though I can't > find a date mentioned in the text here). [specifics about pigments snipped for space reasons] > As I recall from my art history classes, the rare blue lapis pigments > were usually reserved for the dress of the Virgin Mary during medieval > times. This book says that lapis became more available in the 1600's due > to increased trade. Thank you. Though I'm not clear on the extent to which the V&A exhibition book Dawn mentions answers my question. I remember (from a prior discussion on this list involving Robin Netherton) that in the 15th c there was considerable difference between the blues available in clothing and the blues available to use in painting minatures. In other words, the blues available in clothing to either rich and poor wouldn't have had the same tone as the blues used to depict clothing in illuminated manuscripts. However, most of the early 16th c. depictions on Michaela's webpage are not from manuscripts, but early oil paintings. So I guess my question becomes something more like: *Were the same rare pigments used on minatures also used in early oil paintings? *And could period dyers achieve the same teal blue color with the dyes available to them? (Either way, I *still* love Michaela's Anne of Cleves dress and I'm glad she made it the way she did). -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 00:26:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB15Q72q019891 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:26:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB15PVTQ016461; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:25:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB15PTrH013684; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:25:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB15PRrH013672 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:25:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip202.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.202]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 611DA6A9A0 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:25:26 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:25:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) Message-ID: <3FCA6048.26971.115311E@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3FCAAAD2.6080904@reddawn.net> In-reply-to: <200311302358.17463.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > *Were the same rare pigments used on minatures also used in early oil > paintings? Some were, some weren't. However, the pigments for oil painting are more easily mixed and used than those for manuscripts. It's one of the reasons why you can have such color variety for oil painting compared to illuminations. > *And could period dyers achieve the same teal blue color with the dyes > available to them? They could get many varieties of teal color (depending on what you call a teal.) If you are talking about the very blue toned dark green, this could have been done with a weld overdye of an indigo dyed fabric. The exact shade you can get depends entirely on the skill of the dyer. Once you get logwood, it's even easier to get teal colors. However, indigo was a better dye than logwood until they were able to work out some of the mordanting problems so that the logwood didn't destroy the fabrics. England (although they were the source of the needed mordant: tin) didn't have the safer process until after Elizabeth's death. (The Netherlands had the process and were importing the tin to use for dyeing with logwood. Interesting politics were involved.) It's fascinating looking at all the color names from during Elizabeth's time. Some of them we know only because they had been banned or because it was on the list of the "OK" colors to use. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 00:44:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB15iJ2q019925 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:44:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB15hgTQ017404; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:43:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB15hfrH021967; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:43:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB15hdrH021942 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:43:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-56-225.jps.net ([209.165.56.225] helo=w7m1l6) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AQgq3-0005y8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:43:19 -0800 Message-ID: <006601c3b7cd$f3e73360$e138a5d1@w7m1l6> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000101c3b773$b23d7500$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> <009b01c3b78a$fcabe740$df12e10c@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yard Sale books Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:42:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ELNK-Trace: 08dba192340bde6e1a6ab3b9b70940f894f5150ab1c16ac050a736d1df7ddf7494f43b6ece27044e43feeb09a493127a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As one of the guys on the list, this is not a pat on the head you did good load of books. This is a scented candles, kids somewhere else, take me now! load of books. Stephen Bergdahl "I don't suffer from insanity! I fact I rather enjoy it!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "dshoover" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yard Sale books > Eight dollars? Good grief why can't I find garage sales like that. There > is over two hundred dollars if not more, worth of books there. Tell your > husband he did a good lob. Debbie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Linda Rice" > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:56 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Yard Sale books > > > > Hi all! > > > > Yesterday my guy came home with a tub full of books. Seems he had run > across a yard sale and > > stopped to see what they had. He didn't get much for himself, but he > picked up these for me because > > he knows I like costumes. Yowza! Some of them I know, many of them I've > never heard of since I'm > > not really into theatrical costuming. Plus, they are all from the '70's > which is a quite a bit > > before I started collecting books. > > > > And I thought he hadn't been paying attention! ;o> > > > > Here's the list, I would really appreciate any feedback/opinions on any of > them. They all look > > interesting so I will keep them, sorry! (Books and fabric are my neurotic > obsessions!) Besides, he > > only paid $8.00 for the whole box. > > > > Thanks bunches! > > > > ::Linda:: > > *************************************** > > The Book of Costume- Millia Davenport > 1976- ISBN-0517037165 > > single volume edition- (2 copies) Slightly worn (hb) > > > > English Costume of the Seventeenth Century- Iris Brooke 1977- > ISBN-0713601574 > > Like new (hb) > > > > A Handbook of Costume- Janet Arnold 1973- ISBN-0333244893 > > Very Good (ppb) > > > > Patterns of Fashion 1660-1860- Janet Arnold > 1977- ISBN-0910482500 > > Very Good (ppb) > > > > The Costumer's Handbook- Rosemary Ingham/Elizabeth Covey 1980- > ISBN-0131812556 > > Some wear (ppb) > > > > Making Costumes for Plays- Joan Peters/Anna Sutcliffe > 1977- ISBN-0713400293 > > Very Good (hb) > > > > Dress and Undress- Elizabeth Ewing 1978- ISBN-0896760006 > > Very Good (hb) > > > > Basic Pattern Drafting for the Theatrical Costume Designer- Shaw 1974- > ISBN-0910482497 > > Very Good (spiral) > > > > Designing and Making Stage Costumes- Motley 1974- ISBN-0823013197 > > Good- written in > > > > Ackermann's Costume Plates 1818 to 1828 > 1978- ISBN-0486236900 > > Like New > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume