From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 00:51:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB15pL2q019930 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:51:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB15ohTQ017766; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:50:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB15oerH024969; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:50:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB15oarI024947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:50:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB15q8UZ032681 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:52:08 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB15q7vs032679 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:52:07 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:52:07 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FCAAAD2.6080904@reddawn.net> <3FCA6048.26971.115311E@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FCA6048.26971.115311E@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312010052.07569.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 December 2003 12:25 am, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > *Were the same rare pigments used on minatures also used in early oil > > paintings? > > Some were, some weren't. > > However, the pigments for oil painting are more easily mixed and > used than those for manuscripts. It's one of the reasons why you can > have such color variety for oil painting compared to illuminations. Right. My point was whether it is legitmate to deduce, from the fact that a particular shade of blue was depicted on a person in an oil painting, that they had actually been wearing a blue garment of that shade. Your answer suggests that the answer is a qualified "yes". > > *And could period dyers achieve the same teal blue color with the dyes > > available to them? > > They could get many varieties of teal color (depending on what you > call a teal.) If you are talking about the very blue toned dark > green, this could have been done with a weld overdye of an indigo > dyed fabric. The exact shade you can get depends entirely on the > skill of the dyer. If you mean the color being worn by the woman in this picture: http://polaris.umuc.edu/~jthies/Tanya.gif That's not what I'm talking about here (I hate that particular dark-greenish teal, by the way, and the related brighter color that was so darn popular during the 1990s). I mean the "teal blue" color that Michaela's "Anne of Cleves" dress is: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/cleves.htm To me, the "Anne of Cleves" dress is not a teal at all, but more of a turquoise blue--but this discussion started out referring to it as teal blue, and I was trying to stay consistent. :-) > Once you get logwood, it's even easier to get teal colors. However, > indigo was a better dye than logwood until they were able to work out > some of the mordanting problems so that the logwood didn't destroy > the fabrics. England (although they were the source of the needed > mordant: tin) didn't have the safer process until after Elizabeth's > death. (The Netherlands had the process and were importing the tin to > use for dyeing with logwood. Interesting politics were involved.) > > It's fascinating looking at all the color names from during > Elizabeth's time. Some of them we know only because they had been > banned or because it was on the list of the "OK" colors to use. Yes, the color names during Elizabeth's reign were certainly intriguing! (Though I note that the Anne of Cleves dress that Michaela reproduced likely have been made in the 1530s, since Anne was painted in it shortly before her marriage to Henry in 1540). -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 02:12:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB17Cv2q023243 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 02:12:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB17CETQ023306; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:12:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB17CCgB002134; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:12:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav18.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB17C9gB002029 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:12:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:12:04 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav18.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 07:12:04 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031130161326.87532.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> <003001c3b7be$0c9b4f00$55a176cb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 02:11:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Dec 2003 07:12:04.0473 (UTC) FILETIME=[6C546690:01C3B7DA] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Do you ever work on two different styles? It helps me be able > to actually work and get things done by distracting when a bit of > bordom/frustration sets in;) Two? Nah, three, four, five... :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 03:03:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB183M2q004375 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 03:03:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB181kTQ025836; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 01:01:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB181j4a026117; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 01:01:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB181g4a026101 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 01:01:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hB1843R17267 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:04:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:04:03 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200312010804.hB1843R17267@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > If you mean the color being worn by the woman in this picture: > > http://polaris.umuc.edu/~jthies/Tanya.gif > > That's not what I'm talking about here (I hate that particular dark-greenish > teal, by the way, and the related brighter color that was so darn popular > during the 1990s). > > I mean the "teal blue" color that Michaela's "Anne of Cleves" dress is: > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/cleves.htm > > To me, the "Anne of Cleves" dress is not a teal at all, but more of a > turquoise blue--but this discussion started out referring to it as teal blue, > and I was trying to stay consistent. :-) This might be a difference in monitors. I don't see a great deal of difference between the dress colors in those two photos. The only place I see anything resembling turquoise blue is the one shot on Michaela's page that's labeled as FabricTest2. In that shot, it looks to me like the flash has caught the sheen of the velvet and has overexposed the frame, making the color look much lighter than it would otherwise. All the other photos, including ones that look like they were taken in natural light, are darker and have a more greenish cast. (real turquoise of decent quality is _not_ greenish) Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 06:05:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1B532q029717 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 06:05:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1B4NTQ004501; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 04:04:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1B4LAW009462; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 04:04:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1B4HAW009423 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 04:04:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from p224-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.224] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AQlqg-000785-00; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:04:15 +1300 Message-ID: <003101c3b7fa$db802020$e0cdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FCAAAD2.6080904@reddawn.net> <3FCA6048.26971.115311E@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:04:13 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Once you get logwood, it's even easier to get teal colors. However, > indigo was a better dye than logwood until they were able to work out > some of the mordanting problems so that the logwood didn't destroy > the fabrics. England (although they were the source of the needed > mordant: tin) didn't have the safer process until after Elizabeth's > death. (The Netherlands had the process and were importing the tin to > use for dyeing with logwood. Interesting politics were involved.) Very interesting... Do you happen to have any sources for this? I've also got a bundle of essays on the wool trade from the lowlands to get through.. and some info on Nijmegen and how the trade peaked and declined.. so this would be another wonderful read to add to that pile of reading. No pressure btw;) I'll do a search on the net as well.. this may be getting a bit obessive about it but hey;) So long as I'm enjoying it and not frazzling myself needlessly;) Would logwood then be particularly acidic or is it another chemical interaction that causes it to be destructive? It sounds like a set of issues that would be neat to add to the documentation.. like... "this dress probably would have lasted only one year and then would have fallen to pieces. So the woman who would have ordered it would have been a very wealthy woman to waste so much money.";) Where has my book on dying wool got too.. modern carft book, but it would make hunting down recipies fun by searching for the ingredients... Oh and I'm working on getting the Anna Meyer a shade or two lighter;) Stale urine has already been mentioned btw;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 06:07:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1B7N2q029772 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 06:07:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1B6jTQ004675; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 04:06:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1B6hAW010522; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 04:06:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt9.ihug.co.nz (grunt9.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1B6dAW010447 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 04:06:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from p224-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.224] by grunt9.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AQlsy-0000IJ-00; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:06:37 +1300 Message-ID: <003201c3b7fb$305818a0$e0cdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200312010804.hB1843R17267@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:06:33 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This might be a difference in monitors. I don't see a great deal of difference > between the dress colors in those two photos. The only place I see anything > resembling turquoise blue is the one shot on Michaela's page that's labeled > as FabricTest2. In that shot, it looks to me like the flash has caught the > sheen of the velvet and has overexposed the frame, making the color look > much lighter than it would otherwise. All the other photos, including ones > that look like they were taken in natural light, are darker and have a more > greenish cast. To be honest.. it's mostly right between the two shades... I have yet to get a photo of it that really shows the real colour.. which is not terribly chemically in colour if you get my meaning... It's not a pure jewel tone, but it's not areally dusty (which a lot of people seem to think of as what natural dyes are- not impuning anyone.. just the trend I've come across all over the place;) ) It's not green, it's not blue.. though perhaps slightly more in the blue tones. Blues are a pain to convert to CMYK for printing.. I know many of my scans for a magazine had to be played with a lot.. hmm.. maybe the dress is a bit more in the cyan range... no that's too clear... I'm not sure if I need to adjust my camera settings.. I might have them in CMYK not RGB... And of course actual light levels affects the colour greatly, not just on camera either. It looks nice with wood... unlike the blues and pinks of some plastic items I have sitting next to the pouch hanging on the same bit of wood. I had misgivings about the colour at first too;) But I thought hang it.. get the fabric document it later;) Pleased I did;) Oh the sleeves are lined in a shot fabric that is at least part silk. I need to do a good few test to work out just how much though... another oh thank heavens find in my storage box;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 09:13:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1EDE74003161 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:13:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1ECUTQ026569; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:12:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1ECRAO016712; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:12:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40112.mail.yahoo.com (web40112.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1ECPAO016675 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:12:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201141216.63439.qmail@web40112.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.6.121] by web40112.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 06:12:16 PST Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 06:12:16 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have my bodies, drafted my bodice and working hard on my spanish farthingale. Heres my weird question of the day :-) How are the sleeves of a tudor gown attatched Oversleeves? Undersleeves? It's so hard for me to tell from photographs of portraits. Thank you, Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 09:24:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1EOf74003252 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:24:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EMbTQ027629; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:22:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EMZAO023409; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:22:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1EMWAO023334 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:22:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCiuZO5DJngC4rjmGXCsEO1wXcIFv/QuMnA==">; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 06:22:11 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JGBRQ84P; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 06:22:11 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:20:37 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question Message-ID: <20031201.082038.-140663.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-22 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not entirely sure about the undersleeves, but I'm pretty sure that the oversleeves were sewn directly into the armscye of the overdress. That's for the classic English Tudor look, for other places (such as Italy) there may be other standards that apply. Karen On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 06:12:16 -0800 (PST) me writes: > I have my bodies, drafted my bodice and working hard on my spanish > farthingale. Heres my weird question of the day :-) > How are the sleeves of a tudor gown attatched Oversleeves? > Undersleeves? It's so hard for me to tell from photographs of > portraits. Thank you, Angelique > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 09:27:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1ERR74003275 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:27:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EPaTQ027828; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:25:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EPaAO025234; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:25:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1EPYAO025222 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:25:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201142533.67351.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:25:33 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:25:33 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031127220627.17895.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Master and Commander costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The only women I saw in the movie were apparently some Brasilian courtesans. Their dresses did not look very 18th century to my uneducated eye. How far off were they? ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 09:29:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1ETP74003292 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:29:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1ERWTQ027994; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:27:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1ERVAO026467; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:27:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1ERTAO026425 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:27:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hB1ETEA13763.; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:29:14 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:27:26 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:27:00 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hB1ERTAO026425 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ingrid translated: >Trefoil brooch: >To keep the coat closed in front, a so-called trefoil brooch such as >this, or other variations such as the large round ones or "likarmade" >(no idea of the English word; pictures can be found here: >http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/artikel.asp?id=10731) was used in >Mälardalen (a place). Vikings from Gotland once again stick out with >their "dosformiga" (ditto with the translation problem; picture here: >http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/artikel.asp?id=10226), which >indicates that the cultural identity was different from that on the >mainland. I've checked my Swedish-English dictionary (I learned Swedish for a year at university) and would suggest "Box-shaped" for "dosformiga". "Likarmade" presumably means something like "having similar arms"? Looking at the pictures, I can't think of a simple way to describe them in English, only the rather high-sounding "bilaterally symmetrical"! I'd also suggest "beads" rather than "pearls" for "p"arlor", for items not actually made of pearl. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 09:30:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1EUK74003304 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:30:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1ESETQ028064; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:28:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1ESBAO026874; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:28:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1ESAAP026867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:28:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.8/Submit) id hB1ESAU6026866 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:28:10 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:28:10 -0700 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Muppet fabric Message-ID: <20031201142810.GC12357@net.indra.com> References: <20031128223417.GA1916@net.indra.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031128183547.01f63cc0@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031128183547.01f63cc0@64.87.54.245> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the ideas, and I hope people might keep an eye out for Muppet fabric and let me know if any shows up in your area or online. I've tried online searches and local stores, but I'm not finding anything. It's frustrating, since my sister-in-law was wearing her really cool Kermit print lounge pants this weekend, and I remembered she bought them online last year. The site doesn't have them anymore (they've moved on to "Hello Kitty"), and I can't find fabric to make my own. Bah! ...eliz -- When you're working, live like you're not, so that when you're not, you can live like you are. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 09:30:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1EUj74003340 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:30:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1ESjTQ028097; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:28:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1ESiAO027165; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:28:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14008.mail.yahoo.com (web14008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1ESgAO027142 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:28:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201142842.65961.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:28:42 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:28:42 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FC62AC6.2F61B233@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Burgundian/ Fabrics/ Colours X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My next project will probably be a foray into a type of Burgundian. I'm hoping some of you can get me to a starting place on fabric types and colours. What are your favorite online illustrations? ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 09:35:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1EZg74003359 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:35:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EYLTQ028588; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EYJAO000702; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:34:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14009.mail.yahoo.com (web14009.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1EYHAO000664 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:34:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201143413.14835.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:34:13 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:34:13 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031201141216.63439.qmail@web40112.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have achieved the most accurate look by sewing the oversleeves to the bodice and using ties to attach the undersleeves at the elbow. They would actually tie around your arm above the elbow rather than attach to the dress or oversleeves. I don't know how documentable this construction is, but the effect resenbles the paintings. --- me wrote: > I have my bodies, drafted my bodice and working hard > on my spanish farthingale. Heres my weird question > of the day :-) > How are the sleeves of a tudor gown attatched > Oversleeves? Undersleeves? It's so hard for me to > tell from photographs of portraits. Thank you, > Angelique > > > ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 09:36:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Eah74004174 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:36:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Ea4TQ028775; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:36:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Ea4AO001635; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:36:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta1.sucs.soton.ac.uk (mta1.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Ea0AO001581 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk (yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.19]) hB1EZ03A013231 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:35:01 GMT Received: (from nobody@localhost) by yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10617 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:34:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk: nobody set sender to hbgd103@soton.ac.uk using -f To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) Message-ID: <1070289295.3fcb518fa70ae@webmail.soton.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:34:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Hilary Davidson References: <20031129.230220.-339267.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> <200311301303.58486.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FCAAAD2.6080904@reddawn.net> <200311302358.17463.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200311302358.17463.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Originating-IP: 152.78.184.147 X-ISS-MailScanner: Believed to be clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I have _The Way Howe to Lymne_ from a V&A exhibit of Tudor portrait > > miniatures. There is some discussion of pigments in the 2nd half of > the > > book, based on examinations of the portraits and from 4 treatises on > > limning, one of which was written by Nicholas Hilliard > *Were the same rare pigments used on minatures also used in early oil > paintings? > there's a good account of the differences between minitaurists and portraitists' use of pigments, and the way the resulting work was valued, in a chapter of Renaissance Clothing and the materials of memory, by Jones and Stallybrass, Cambridge University Press, 2000. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 09:41:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Efh74004198 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:41:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EexTQ029213; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EeXAO004224; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:40:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EeLAO004071 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:40:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hB1EeIAk022176 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:40:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031201093853.00b8e9f0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:40:22 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <200311281141.44687.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Hand Sewing thread. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi folks, Sorry to be chiming in on this so late. I have bought most of my hand sewing linen thread from LACIS. They do have a web site. In general I use a 80/2 for hand sewing. Bridgette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 09:47:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1ElA74004236 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:47:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EkVTQ029534; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:46:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EkSAO007699; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:46:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EkPAO007671 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:46:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hB1EkNRV022358 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:46:23 -0500 Message-ID: <013001c3b819$e2811770$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031201142842.65961.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Burgundian/ Fabrics/ Colours Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:46:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are some lovely burgundian images on this site(total of 3 pages): http://www.antir.com/meghan/images.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Sanabria Rosado" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 9:28 AM Subject: [h-cost] Burgundian/ Fabrics/ Colours > My next project will probably be a foray into a type > of Burgundian. I'm hoping some of you can get me to a > starting place on fabric types and colours. What are > your favorite online illustrations? > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 09:49:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Enq74004248 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:49:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EnGTQ029841; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:49:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EnBAO009334; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:49:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [64.28.25.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1En4AP009262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:49:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [127.0.0.1]) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB1EjKEP019017 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:45:20 +0100 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id hB1EjKb8019013 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:45:20 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: decna.com: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:45:20 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Kate M Bunting wrote: > I've checked my Swedish-English dictionary (I learned Swedish for a > year at university) and would suggest "Box-shaped" for "dosformiga". > "Likarmade" presumably means something like "having similar arms"? > Looking at the pictures, I can't think of a simple way to describe > them in English, only the rather high-sounding "bilaterally > symmetrical"! I thought about box-shaped, but wasn't sure if that made sense for the shape. Thanks for clearing that up! "likarmade" definitely means "having similar arms"; I guess I was looking for one word and came up short. :) > I'd also suggest "beads" rather than "pearls" for "p"arlor", for items > not actually made of pearl. Oops, did I write pearls? I meant beads of course; you're absolutely right. :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 09:50:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1EoB74004251 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:50:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EnZTQ029869; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:49:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EnUAO009509; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:49:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1En7AO009294 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:49:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201144906.74217.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:49:06 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:49:06 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1c4.1240d63f.2cf6443c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Dickens /Christmas/ Costuming X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've never been entirely sure what time period Dickens covered. ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 10:14:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1FEb74004286 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:14:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1FA5Te001574; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:13:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1EgNAO005425; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:42:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14003.mail.yahoo.com (web14003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1EgLAO005402 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:42:22 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201144220.971.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:42:20 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:42:20 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] quiet list X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know about the rest of the world, but I don't have as much time during November and December for research as I would like to have.:) Who does really? I just finished a 14th century outfit for my husband, 15 pounds of brandied fruit, starting 2 pints of a citrus-spice cordial, managing a family four-day holiday, preparing for 2 December birthdays and I still haven't finished my 16th century gown for Twelfth Night. Maybe by the end of December we'll see more activity on planning new projects. ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 10:18:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1FIr74004296 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:18:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1FHxTQ002494; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:17:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1FHunt027987; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:17:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1FHrnt027890 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:17:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.76 ([204.127.135.76]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <20031201151747113003eljie>; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:17:47 +0000 Received: from [162.130.1.254] by 204.127.135.76; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:17:45 +0000 From: ladysarafina@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:17:45 +0000 Message-Id: <120120031517.23585.50d4@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: aHN3YXNoaW5ndG9uQGF0dC5uZXQ= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Angelique, I got a great looking sleeve when I put the seam for the upper arm of the outer sleeve on the outer side of my upper arm and put the seam of the lower arm (the part that bells out) on the bottom of my arm starting the. When I made my initial pattern like a giant modern sleeve all in once piece, the bell part did not hang correctly. Sarafina -- The Honourable Lady Sarafina Sinclair, CE, CW, APF http://ladysarafina.home.att.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 10:18:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1FIx74004299 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:18:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1FIFTQ002517; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:18:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1FIEnt028188; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:18:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1FIDnt028169 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:18:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.186] (pm5-186.eos.net [205.133.149.186]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1FIAug001720 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:18:10 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:19:36 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312011314.hB1DESFP019413@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: viking costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to the person who first posted this, and thanks to Ingrid for translating! This is not my period to research but I think the museum did a wonderful job with this site. While the text may not be as detailed as we'd like, I think the museum did far better than most descriptions of historic costume, for instance by saying that scholars disagree about how the apron dress was constructed, and by discussing the "pleated" smock and whether or not it was ever worn by live people. For most visitors, this will be plenty of information. My 9-year-old daughter is doing a report on Vikings for school, and I showed her the men's and woman's clothing part from the web site yesterday. She was thrilled. This is her first research project, and the class doesn't have to do bibliographies with it, they just have to look up various subjects (Viking dress, Viking houses, what "viking" means, etc.) and present what they learned. Next we are going to look at the 3-D buildings on the site. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 10:31:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1FVE74004361 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:31:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1FUTTQ003787; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:30:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1FUSnt007972; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:30:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1FUQnt007949 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:30:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hB1FWCA19858.; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:32:12 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:30:23 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:30:00 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens /Christmas/ Costuming Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> ladyforbeys@yahoo.com 12/1/03 2:49:06 PM >>> wrote > I've never been entirely sure what time period >Dickens covered. Well, he was writing from the 1830s to his death in 1870, but some of his novels imply a setting a few decades earlier than the time of writing (not counting the 2 historical ones). Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 10:49:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Fn074004447 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:49:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Fl3TQ005450; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Fl0nt021453; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Fkunt021280 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:46:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.76 ([204.127.135.76]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2003120115465011200heaqfe>; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:46:50 +0000 Received: from [162.130.1.254] by 204.127.135.76; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:46:49 +0000 From: ladysarafina@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] quiet list Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:46:49 +0000 Message-Id: <120120031546.25800.2604@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: aHN3YXNoaW5ndG9uQGF0dC5uZXQ= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm working on a blue velvet tudor for 12th night and my husband wants new pants also. I sewn all the jewels down along the front of the neckline. I'll keep a photo diary and show the evolution of the gown. Can anyone tell me if they had faceted gems/glass cabochons in the 16th century? I know that they put pearls on their necklines, but I'm trying to determine if putting faceted jewels on a dress is a plausible 16th century decorative technique. Sarafina -- The Honourable Lady Sarafina Sinclair, CE, CW, APF http://ladysarafina.home.att.net > I don't know about the rest of the world, but I don't > have as much time during November and December for > research as I would like to have.:) Who does really? > I just finished a 14th century outfit for my husband, > 15 pounds of brandied fruit, starting 2 pints of a > citrus-spice cordial, managing a family four-day > holiday, preparing for 2 December birthdays and I > still haven't finished my 16th century gown for > Twelfth Night. Maybe by the end of December we'll see > more activity on planning new projects. > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 10:57:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1FvA74004481 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:57:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1FuATQ006353; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:56:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Fu9Mv029100; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:56:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta2.sucs.soton.ac.uk (mta2.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Fu5Mv029035 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:56:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk (yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.19]) hB1F1YF4016942 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:01:34 GMT Received: (from nobody@localhost) by yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12198 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:01:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk: nobody set sender to hbgd103@soton.ac.uk using -f To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <1070290890.3fcb57ca07381@webmail.soton.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:01:30 +0000 (GMT) From: Hilary Davidson References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Originating-IP: 152.78.184.147 X-ISS-MailScanner: Believed to be clean Subject: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I actually have another unrelated question for anyone who knows...I've > > searched and searched online and can't find the answer: what sort of > underwear existed for women in the 12th century? I'm especially > interested in bust support. I"ve noticed (in woodcuts and paintings) > that > women tend to have rather 'perkier' busts than I would have thought > during that time period than if they had no support. Did the outer > garments do this job? > No idea if any supporting underwear existed, but I've found in late 13th c dresses that if it's close fitting enough, everything stays where it's meant to (with occasional hoicks :), whether front or back opening. Well enough that I can happily go bra-less and forget about it. Having no shaping at the bust like darts or seaming means breasts are sort of bound in place. I don't know how this would work for women with a lot up top. If the gown you're looking at is losser, a cloth binging under it would serve a similar purpose, though the tension at the shoulders in a dress keeps all pointing skyward. Maybe cross- binding, in the X shape seen on greek chitons. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 11:04:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1G4G74004544 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:04:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1G3OTQ007070; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:03:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1G3LMv005423; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:03:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1G3IMv005296 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:03:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1d1.152b2c7f (26116) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:03:08 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1d1.152b2c7f.2cfcc03c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:03:08 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Muppet fabric To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/1/2003 9:28:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, eliz@indra.com writes: and I can't find fabric to make my own. Bah! Some companies won't license their fabrics for retail sale at all, but will for ready-to-wear and home decorating. I suspect that is the case here. I know it can be difficult to use sheets or curtains, as many of them are in such large-scale designs. But you might be able to get creative, if you can find them. Try a place like Domestications (if they still exist!) Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 11:10:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1GAN74004575 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:10:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1G9JTQ007759; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:09:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1G9GMv011106; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:09:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1G9BMv011026 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:09:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 46085 invoked by uid 1005); 1 Dec 2003 16:09:05 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 1.066291 secs); 01 Dec 2003 16:09:05 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 1.066291 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 1 Dec 2003 16:09:04 -0000 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:09:07 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] quiet list In-Reply-To: <120120031546.25800.2604@att.net> Message-ID: <20031201110332.N33359-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They did have some faceted jewels. The square table-top cut (most commonly seen in emeralds, nowadays) is frequently seen. A pyramid cut is also seen, most frequently on diamonds. The rose cut, which looks a bit more modern (rather similar to the cut seen on some rhinestones) came into fashion during the reign of James I, so for late Elizabethan it could conceivably be used. Check out Tudor and Elizabethan Jewelry by Diana Scarisbrick for lovely closeups and descriptions of gems. Drea On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 ladysarafina@att.net wrote: > I'm working on a blue velvet tudor for 12th night and my husband wants new > pants also. I sewn all the jewels down along the front of the neckline. I'll > keep a photo diary and show the evolution of the gown. > > Can anyone tell me if they had faceted gems/glass cabochons in the 16th > century? I know that they put pearls on their necklines, but I'm trying to > determine if putting faceted jewels on a dress is a plausible 16th century > decorative technique. > > Sarafina > > -- > The Honourable Lady Sarafina Sinclair, CE, CW, APF > http://ladysarafina.home.att.net > > > > I don't know about the rest of the world, but I don't > > have as much time during November and December for > > research as I would like to have.:) Who does really? > > I just finished a 14th century outfit for my husband, > > 15 pounds of brandied fruit, starting 2 pints of a > > citrus-spice cordial, managing a family four-day > > holiday, preparing for 2 December birthdays and I > > still haven't finished my 16th century gown for > > Twelfth Night. Maybe by the end of December we'll see > > more activity on planning new projects. > > > > ===== > > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs > > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 11:22:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1GMt74004640 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:22:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GL6TQ009012; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:21:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GKtMv022166; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:20:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GKqMv022041 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:20:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34E5E19FCBB for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:20:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FCB6BAA.3080009@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 17:26:18 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Pleated berhte 1845 dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AAAAAaaahhh! Sorry, I just like to scream. I am trieing to find out how to make a pleated berthe and I can't seem to understand how to make it right. There are 4 pieces Two for the front and two for the back The back closes at the right schoulder... But is every piece just one piece of fabric pleated or are they sepereate pleats sown on to a piece of fabric?? http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/boehn/mariebourbon1845.JPG Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 11:23:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1GN674004643 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:23:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GLdTQ009065; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:21:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GLaMv022930; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:21:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GLSMv022702 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:21:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.40.37eb600e (4246) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:21:17 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <40.37eb600e.2cfcc47c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:21:16 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens /Christmas/ Costuming To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/1/2003 10:30:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: > Well, he was writing from the 1830s to his death in 1870, but some of > his novels imply a setting a few decades earlier than the time of > writing (not counting the 2 historical ones). > > Also, since you mention Christmas, "A Christmas Carol" came out in...oh...damn I forget...1843? 1845? Anyway, Scrooge's current period can be said to be early to mid 40s. He goes back to his youth of course [18-teens] and into the future and we also get an account of how he changes after the visitations so it can be argued the ghosts come to him in the late 1830s. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 11:30:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1GUw74004669 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:30:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GUITQ010019; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:30:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GUFMv001198; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:30:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from zephir.primus.ca (mail.tor.primus.ca [216.254.136.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GUAMw001123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:30:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsl-207-112-122-51.tor.primus.ca ([207.112.122.51] helo=DHoffryn) by zephir.primus.ca with smtp (Exim 3.36 #3) id 1AQqw5-0002YT-0A for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:30:09 -0500 Message-ID: <006a01c3b828$67b84cc0$2101a8c0@DHoffryn> From: "Joanna Hobbins" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: viking costume Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:30:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Some parts of the website have been officially translated into english. http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/eng/drakt.htm I have no idea how to get to the english page from the main site unfortunately, or even if other parts of the site are in english. Joanna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 11:31:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1GVH74004673 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:31:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GUcTQ010078; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:30:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GUbMv001562; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:30:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GUMMv001248 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:30:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.ce.412aaa80 (4246) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:30:10 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:30:10 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pleated berhte 1845 dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/1/2003 11:21:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > But is every piece just one piece of fabric pleated or are they > sepereate pleats sown on to a piece of fabric?? > They are usually one piece of bias pleated. But it is easier to do separate bias "pleats" and overlap them. [Both methods are tacked to a foundation piece.] I'm not sure if they did the bias strip thing or not in the period. Y'know...never say never....never say always.... The best way to do it with a single bias piece is drape it on a dummy. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 11:38:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1GcR74004692 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:38:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GbiTQ010857; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:37:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GbhMv008296; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:37:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GbBMv007705 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:37:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.96.201.18]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031201163659.EBSV2192.lakemtao03.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:36:59 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT: Muppet fabric Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:36:48 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c3b829$544788d0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <1d1.152b2c7f.2cfcc03c@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Eliz- Have you tried Ebay? There are actually a lot of 'hits' for Sesame Street inspired fabrics, but unfortunately I didn't see any "Kermit" stuff. That doesn't mean that it won't show up tomorrow, though. ::Linda:: -----Original Message----- In a message dated 12/1/2003 9:28:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, eliz@indra.com writes: ...and I can't find fabric to make my own. Bah! Some companies won't license their fabrics for retail sale at all, but will for ready-to-wear and home decorating. I suspect that is the case here. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 11:41:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1GfH74004695 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:41:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GeATQ011143; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:40:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Ge9Mv010739; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:40:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1Ge4Mv010626 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:40:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201164003.45647.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.251.232] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:40:03 PST Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:40:03 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] quiet list To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <120120031546.25800.2604@att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They had some faceting. Simple 'square ' cuts have been around for gem stones for a long time. If you can get your hands on a copy of Jewelry--7000 Years--there are examples of what they call 'tablecut ' diamonds and rubies, also examples of 'pointed' cut stones(looking like a pyramid shape set in gold). Many cabochons were also mounted with foil on the back to increase the sparkle and enhance color. Take a peek, also, at Tudor and Jacobean Jewelry--by Diana Scarisbrick---which also describes the different types of jewel cuts available by 1612---lozence, table, and triangle.There were also briolettes--drop shaped stones faceted all around. By the 1630's new , more brilliant cuts where developed to show off gemstones to best advantage. Albra ladysarafina@att.net wrote: I'm working on a blue velvet tudor for 12th night and my husband wants new pants also. I sewn all the jewels down along the front of the neckline. I'll keep a photo diary and show the evolution of the gown. Can anyone tell me if they had faceted gems/glass cabochons in the 16th century? I know that they put pearls on their necklines, but I'm trying to determine if putting faceted jewels on a dress is a plausible 16th century decorative technique. Sarafina -- The Honourable Lady Sarafina Sinclair, CE, CW, APF http://ladysarafina.home.att.net > I don't know about the rest of the world, but I don't > have as much time during November and December for > research as I would like to have.:) Who does really? > I just finished a 14th century outfit for my husband, > 15 pounds of brandied fruit, starting 2 pints of a > citrus-spice cordial, managing a family four-day > holiday, preparing for 2 December birthdays and I > still haven't finished my 16th century gown for > Twelfth Night. Maybe by the end of December we'll see > more activity on planning new projects. > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 11:48:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Gmb74004715 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:48:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GlkTQ012148; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:47:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GliMv018264; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:47:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GlfMv018210 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:47:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip123.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.123]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17C76A8CC for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:41:03 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:47:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) Message-ID: <3FCB0032.17221.385DBFA@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3FCA6048.26971.115311E@localhost> In-reply-to: <200312010052.07569.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If you mean the color being worn by the woman in this picture: > > http://polaris.umuc.edu/~jthies/Tanya.gif > > That's not what I'm talking about here (I hate that particular > dark-greenish teal, by the way, and the related brighter color that > was so darn popular during the 1990s). > > I mean the "teal blue" color that Michaela's "Anne of Cleves" dress > is: > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/cleves.htm > > To me, the "Anne of Cleves" dress is not a teal at all, but more of a > turquoise blue--but this discussion started out referring to it as > teal blue, and I was trying to stay consistent. :-) Both of them can be made with using weld overdye of an indigo dyed fabric. The balance depends on the depth of the color used for each step and that was something that medieval and renaissance dyers were quite capable of doing. > > It's fascinating looking at all the color names from during > > Elizabeth's time. Some of them we know only because they had been > > banned or because it was on the list of the "OK" colors to use. > > Yes, the color names during Elizabeth's reign were certainly > intriguing! (Though I note that the Anne of Cleves dress that Michaela > reproduced likely have been made in the 1530s, since Anne was painted > in it shortly before her marriage to Henry in 1540). Both the colors would have been in use as well. When I first started researching color about 18 years ago, teal, peacock blue, dark turqoises and the like were ones I specifically looked for. Initially I thought that they couldn't or wouldn't have done it. The more I researched, the more I found that there was more color variety (once you get to the renaissance especially) than I had been repeatedly told. Actually, an experienced dyer could throughout the middle ages and renaissance make any color they desired. Sometimes they couldn't make a lot of it, but they could always make enough for embroidery at least. (For example, hot pink was fairly easy for many of them and you can actually find embroideries which are still extant which have them on them. However, the process is such that they probably only made enough for an embroidery project or tapestry, not for an entire garment. The closest was using them as a "stripe" in some of the plaids from some of the Scottish areas.) But teal (in its various shades) is pretty easy to get using an overdye method (which was common for doing "natural" dyeing) and could be done in large enough volumes that it was probably used in garments, not just for tapestries or embroideries. The interesting thing happens when you start looking at inventories. Ask any man what a color is (unless he is really into textiles) and he'd just say "that's green". You could have many shades of reds, greens, purples, etc, but the man who inventoried the estate would probably just list the basic color. (The renaissance inventories such as the Stowe seemed to have more female input. Perhaps that's because Elizabeth's women were more involved in it than in previous times.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 11:53:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Gr974004750 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:53:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Gq8TQ012689; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:52:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Gq8Mv022221; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:52:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1Gq4Mv022164 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:52:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201165203.79978.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.251.232] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:52:03 PST Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:52:03 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Same here---usually 5 or 6 projects going at once--my husband says I 'orbit ' around several projects at once. The downside is , that unless there is deadline to worry about--nothing gets finished for a VERY long while--and then suddenly a whole series is done:) Sometimes projects do get lost in the shuffle ,though ,before I canget back to them. I am just now finishing something( a piece of metal thread embroidery ) that I started 17 years ago(blush) .Anyone else have anything older? Albra Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > Do you ever work on two different styles? It helps me be able > to actually work and get things done by distracting when a bit of > bordom/frustration sets in;) Two? Nah, three, four, five... :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 11:58:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Gw474004759 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:58:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GvFTQ013461; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:57:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GvEZc027108; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:57:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1GvBZc027006 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:57:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.113.2c40fb94 (18403) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:56:54 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <113.2c40fb94.2cfcccd6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:56:54 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Master and Commander costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/1/2003 6:27:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, ladyforbeys@yahoo.com writes: The only women I saw in the movie were apparently some Brasilian courtesans. Their dresses did not look very 18th century to my uneducated eye. How far off were they? It's funny that you should bring that up. Recently I met the woman who was (one of) the costume designer for M & C. Her stepson is one of the lawyers I work with. I think she mainly did the men's costumes, but I've been wanting to ask her what her sources for inspiration were. Laura, Choreographer; Props Master http://www.guildofstaugustine.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 12:07:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1H7774004782 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:07:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1H6ATQ014470; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:06:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1H69Zc005912; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:06:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1H66Zc005852 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:06:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:06:05 -0500 Message-ID: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA95A6@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:06:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] RE: Wool Vendor X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm just now catching up on digest posts from this weekend. I've got a question for anyone who knows about fabric. The eBay seller has several auctions of wool gabardine fabric. The prices seem really nice. I'm currently looking for wool but I want something fairly thick since I will be making a cloak. Is gabardine what I want or is it going to be too thin? As long as we're on the topic are there any key words like gabardine that I should be looking for while looking for a thicker wool? Bjorn Arnaldsson > > I just won an eBay auction for five yards of dark green wool > from a seller > whose ID was en5001. I haven't received it yet, so can't > vouch for the > quality, but the total including shipping was $36.00, and he > had numerous > auctions. > > If it's as nice as it looked in the pic, he may have a > customer for life! > > Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 13:00:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1I0F74005020 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:00:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1HuYTQ020861; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:56:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1HuXZS025626; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:56:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Hi0Zc015300 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:44:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip123.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.123]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CC9D6A963 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:37:09 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:43:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question Message-ID: <3FCB0D50.8265.3B91793@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031201141216.63439.qmail@web40112.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have my bodies, drafted my bodice and working hard on my spanish > farthingale. Heres my weird question of the day :-) How are the > sleeves of a tudor gown attatched Oversleeves? Undersleeves? It's so > hard for me to tell from photographs of portraits. Thank you, > Angelique About the only book which has patterns that actually seem to work (especially for that belled turnback Tudor sleeve) is Jean Hunnisett's _Costume for Stage and Screen 1500-1800_. Hers seems to be the only one where the bell of the turnback hangs correctly. She also gives ideas for the undersleeves, although since we don't have any extant ones or pictures of ladies putting them on, *any* way of doing them is going to be speculation/conjecture. Her method of doing the undersleeve is as good as any other. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 13:05:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1I5J74005037 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:05:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1I3HTQ021882; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:03:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1I3DZS002967; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:03:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1I38ZS002762 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:03:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.15b.28d70bd3 (4116) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:02:52 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <15b.28d70bd3.2cfcdc4c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:02:52 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Master and Commander costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/1/2003 9:26:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, ladyforbeys@yahoo.com writes: Their dresses did not look very 18th century to my uneducated eye. How far off were they? Well, I believe the film is actually set in the early 19th century, is it not? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 13:18:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1IIX74005096 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:18:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1IFoU0023791; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:17:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1HkDZc017159; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Hi4Zc015311 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:44:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip123.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.123]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2D26A964 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:37:10 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:43:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] quiet list Message-ID: <3FCB0D4F.15238.3B9168A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <120120031546.25800.2604@att.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Can anyone tell me if they had faceted gems/glass cabochons in the > 16th century? I know that they put pearls on their necklines, but I'm > trying to determine if putting faceted jewels on a dress is a > plausible 16th century decorative technique. While they had faceted jewels, they aren't the type of faceting that you modernly see. They are really rather irregular. The "table cut" ones tend to be most like we would see on dress. Think of the rectangular shape, not the oval or round jewels. To see what they would have used, try looking at Ronald Lightbown's _Mediaeval European Jewellery_ or one of Diana Scarisbrick's books such as _Jewellery in Britain 1066-1837_. One which has some particularly nice details of jewels as dress decoration is Priscilla Muller's _Jewels in Spain 1500-1800_. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 13:18:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1IIa74005100 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:18:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1IFoU2023791; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:17:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1HnOZc019528; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:49:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1HhqZc015262 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:44:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip123.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.123]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0DE36A962 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:37:06 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:43:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) Message-ID: <3FCB0D4F.31983.3B91551@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003101c3b7fa$db802020$e0cdadcb@michaela> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Logwood dyeing: > Very interesting... Do you happen to have any sources for this? I've > also got a bundle of essays on the wool trade from the lowlands to get > through.. and some info on Nijmegen and how the trade peaked and > declined.. so this would be another wonderful read to add to that pile > of reading. No pressure btw;) I'll do a search on the net as well.. > this may be getting a bit obessive about it but hey;) So long as I'm > enjoying it and not frazzling myself needlessly;) Franco Brunello's _The Art of Dyeing in the history of mankind_ has quite a bit about logwood in several of the sections. Most of the information I've gathered from multiple sources over the years. (I've got more books on dyeing than I can reach from fingertip to fingertip on the shelf. That doesn't include the history books such as the guild books or the books which are also about costuming which often have important information in them.) I also believe there is a Ciba Review pamphlet on Logwood dyeing. I remember seeing it, but I don't have a copy so I can't tell you which number it is. Millia Davenport's costuming book has some information on logwood dyes (according to some notes I found in a folder). You might check that out too. If you have access to some of the German dye books from the Renaissance, they might prove especially helpful. I've seen snippets from them and have wished for complete translations. > Would logwood then be particularly acidic or is it another chemical > interaction that causes it to be destructive? Some of the early trials for logwood evidently used processes which were more workable with tannins or other dyewoods. Also, if you aren't using the proper mordant (tin being the best) it tends to be very fugitive (which was a major part of the reasoning for the bans of its use in England). In fact, that's one of the reasons why some of the Civil War groups thought that you didn't match the thread color to the dress. They kept finding extant garments of dark colors (such as dark blue or black) which were entirely sewn with brown thread. However, it turned out that the thread had been cheaply dyed with logwood (instead of properly dyed with it) and the color had just faded away. It probably matched or at least was closer in color value when it was first sewn. > It sounds like a set of issues that would be neat to add to the > documentation.. like... "this dress probably would have lasted only > one year and then would have fallen to pieces. So the woman who would > have ordered it would have been a very wealthy woman to waste so much > money.";) Although Brunello doesn't talk about the corrosive properties, the wealthy would not have gone for that quality. When the fabric is dyed in such a way that it is corrosive, it tends to be more brittle and scratchy from the beginning. I doubt that any wealthy person would have wanted it because it would have *felt* "cheap." > Where has my book on dying wool got too.. modern carft book, but it > would make hunting down recipies fun by searching for the > ingredients... Rita Androsko's book (which I consider to be "modern" although she is good about the American Civil War period and rather poor on the prior periods) has information on Logwood as well. Most of my "craft" dye books don't say much about logwood. It tended to be a commercial dye, not a home dye. Most of the "craft" books tend to go more with home dyeing than commercial dyeing. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 13:45:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1IjZ74005273 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:45:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1IilTQ027767; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:44:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Iijlm017199; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:44:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1Iiglm017056 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:44:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-116-254-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.254.123 with login) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2003 18:44:36 -0000 Message-ID: <00b001c3b83b$29b40230$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <113.2c40fb94.2cfcccd6@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Master and Commander costumes Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:44:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I believe Master & Commander is set in about 1805 (or was it 1802? '0-something!) My assumption with the Brazilian women was that they were obviously prostitutes (lower class) and possibly indigenous, so were in semi-Western dress (and either didn't know exactly how it all was supposed to go together or didn't care). - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 14:01:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1J1o74005336 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:01:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1J0aTQ029852; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:00:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Ixu8U002872; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:59:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1IuR8U029224 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:56:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.150]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Itmph019703 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:55:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031201104228.058a9e20@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:44:32 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Master and Commander costumes In-Reply-To: <20031201142533.67351.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031127220627.17895.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The only women I saw in the movie were apparently >some Brasilian courtesans. Their dresses did not look >very 18th century to my uneducated eye. How far off >were they? I was pretty surprised to see what looked like a mid-1800s parasol one was carrying. But the costumes should have been early 19th century with fashion lag, not 18th century, as the film is set in 1805. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 14:03:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1J3T74005339 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:03:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1J2bTQ000295; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:02:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1J2Z8U005884; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:02:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1IuQ8U029186 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:56:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.150]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Itmpf019703 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:55:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031201103619.058722a0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:40:03 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: yard sale books In-Reply-To: <000601c3b787$6fdb5920$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Can anyone say if the single edition of Davenport is as good as the 2 >volume set? When we were >talking about it a few weeks ago I *almost* bought a used set then but >decided to wait. If the 1 >vs. 2 books comparison was made, I'm sorry but I must have missed it. I am under the impression they are identical except for the number of volumes. I have the one volume edition. And somehow mine is missing the four color plates (not that I miss them after I saw how bad the originally printed color was). My copy is on its second binding, and since the bookbinder saw "Volume I" inside the front, that's what he put on the spine. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 14:13:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1JD674005360 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:13:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1JAwTQ001561; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:10:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1JAq8U014492; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:10:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1JAR8U014086 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:10:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.150]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1J9opf012856 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:09:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031201105747.056addb0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:10:21 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Master and Commander costumes In-Reply-To: <00b001c3b83b$29b40230$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> References: <113.2c40fb94.2cfcccd6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >My assumption with the Brazilian women was that they were obviously >prostitutes (lower class) and possibly indigenous, so were in semi-Western >dress (and either didn't know exactly how it all was supposed to go together >or didn't care). My guess is that they were possibly of mixed blood, possibly full-blooded native, but were all trying their best to look civilized (=European). One of the Brazillian men traded something for a sailor's shirt in that scene. I noticed two period sailor's sewing kit items in the film. When the dead man's sea chest is seen open, there is a wooden thing shaped like a little sandbox shovel with a wedge-shaped 'blade'. That's a seam rubber, for flattening out seams on whatever a sailor has to sew. Then, in the scene late in the film where we see someone being sewn into his hammock, the sailor actually doing the job is wearing a sewing palm, the hand-protector/thimble sail makers wore while sewing sail canvas. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 14:15:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1JF774005367 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:15:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1JABUi001373; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:13:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1J3G8U006690; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:03:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1IuT8U029267 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:56:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.150]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Itmpl019703 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:55:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031201105324.05916d00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:56:19 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pleated berhte 1845 dress In-Reply-To: <3FCB6BAA.3080009@kabelfoon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >There are 4 pieces Two for the front and two for the back The back closes >at the right schoulder... >But is every piece just one piece of fabric pleated or are they sepereate >pleats sown on to a piece of fabric?? >http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/boehn/mariebourbon1845.JPG I'd say a right front piece, a left front piece, a right back piece and a left back piece. Some of these berthes have piping down the center front as if there was a seam there. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 14:16:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1JGu74005370 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:16:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1JEJTQ002052; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:14:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1JEH8U017961; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:14:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1JEE8U017844 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:14:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.76 ([204.127.135.76]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <20031201191408113003bm07e>; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:14:08 +0000 Received: from [162.130.1.254] by 204.127.135.76; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:14:08 +0000 From: ladysarafina@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:14:08 +0000 Message-Id: <120120031914.25636.6277@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: aHN3YXNoaW5ndG9uQGF0dC5uZXQ= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Kat wrote: > > About the only book which has patterns that actually seem to work > (especially for that belled turnback Tudor sleeve) is Jean > Hunnisett's _Costume for Stage and Screen 1500-1800_. Hers seems to > be the only one where the bell of the turnback hangs correctly. Actually, when I tried her pattern, it didn't hang correctly because of the seam placement. I took her pattern and just rotated the seam on the upper arm. Her sleeve is a modern shape with the seam on the straight, rather than a period shape with the seam on the bias which allows for better arm movement. Just my $0.02 -- The Honourable Lady Sarafina Sinclair, CE, CW, APF http://ladysarafina.home.att.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 14:37:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Jbl74005419 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:37:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Jb0TQ005113; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Jaw8U010887; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:36:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40106.mail.yahoo.com (web40106.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1Jat8U010762 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:36:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201193649.21827.qmail@web40106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.11.90] by web40106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:36:49 PST Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:36:49 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] tudor mens er... layers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay the "womens tudor conundrum" is over (thanks again) now I have a men's clothing question Jason (my wonderful husband) Has his nether stocks, shirt, flat cap and I cannot figure out whether his next layer is a doublet of some sort with the huge overcoat next? Can someone shed light on the tudor middle layers for a gentleman? Thank you Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 14:51:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1JpU74005558 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:51:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1JoOTQ006581; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:50:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1JoL8U023491; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:50:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1JoH8U023312 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:50:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.7a.4c0cfda1 (4246) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:50:03 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <7a.4c0cfda1.2cfcf56b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:50:03 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens /Christmas/ Costuming To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/1/2003 2:18:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@frys.com writes: > Nobody is entirely sure what time period Dickens' Fair covers, but > think hoop skirts and you can't go far wrong. > This reminds me of a blurb in a costume catalogue [a dreadful one...Ruby's, perhaps] for their hoop skirts: "Put under long skirt for old timey effect" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 14:54:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Jsh74005587 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:54:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1JriTQ006989; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:53:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Jrf8U026552; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:53:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Jrc8U026447 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:53:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.96.201.18]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031201195331.HCCB19895.lakemtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:53:31 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:53:18 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c3b844$c7064670$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031201103619.058722a0@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hB1Jrc8U026447 Subject: [h-cost] looking for mailman fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd like to thank everyone for their thoughts and opinions on my new "treasures". I spent a lovely evening last night just reading through a few. It suddenly occurred to me how much I'd been missing out on without the Davenport book in my library. That is a *wonderful* book! (I can't find the color plates either, Kayta, so maybe they are long gone from my copies too.) Anyway, now I have another question, and this one is for the wonderful guy who brought home my gifts. He is a U.S.P.S. letter carrier, and he has wanted me to make him some uniform trousers for a very long time. The problem is that I can't find the fabric /anywhere/. It has to be that specific fabric, because it's a u-n-i-f-o-r-m. (I spent way too many years in uniforms of various colors and styles and have developed a hearty hatred of them!) It's medium blue, medium weight, polyester with a smooth, tight weave so it is very hard-wearing. There is also a dark blue poly ribbon that goes up the outside of each leg. If anyone knows where to get U.S.P.S. uniform fabric and all the fixin's, would you please let me know? I've tried the uniform sellers, but no one seems to have the yardage available for do-it-yourselfers. So, this is the thank-you that I you all can help with. The other 'reward' is noneya- this IS a family list y'know! :o> Thanks bunches, ::Linda:: _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 15:07:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1K7G74005646 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:07:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K5ITQ008393; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:05:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K5E2c007480; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:05:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K5B2c007419 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:05:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.150]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K58GS007464 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:05:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031201115702.04be9e40@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:59:30 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens /Christmas/ Costuming In-Reply-To: <7a.4c0cfda1.2cfcf56b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Nobody is entirely sure what time period Dickens' Fair covers, but > > think hoop skirts and you can't go far wrong. > > > >This reminds me of a blurb in a costume catalogue [a dreadful one...Ruby's, >perhaps] for their hoop skirts: > >"Put under long skirt for old timey effect" We had plenty of 'Old Timey' at Dickens' the first weekend - we always do. There were also some really nice outfits. The costume contest had six or seven entries both days. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 15:08:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1K8C74005654 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:08:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K6KTQ008511; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:06:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K6J2c008517; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:06:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K6G2c008401 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:06:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.76 ([204.127.135.76]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2003120120061111100qktece>; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:06:11 +0000 Received: from [162.130.1.254] by 204.127.135.76; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:06:10 +0000 From: ladysarafina@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] tudor mens er... layers Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:06:10 +0000 Message-Id: <120120032006.22376.6e0@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: aHN3YXNoaW5ndG9uQGF0dC5uZXQ= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Angelique: You can use this portrait of Edward VI as a guide (assuming you're doing upper class clothing). http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Edward.jpg I believe that he is wearing hose, shirt, pants, cod piece, doublet, and coat. The peplums tended to be long covering most of the pants. Also, I believe that they were padding the doublets to give a rounder look at the stomach. A flat cap is easy to make and shouldn't take you more than an hour including the sewing. I don't know too much more about men's underwear layers, unfortunately. -- The Honourable Lady Sarafina Sinclair, CE, CW, APF http://ladysarafina.home.att.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 15:10:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1KAG74005663 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:10:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K89TQ008704; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:08:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K852c010165; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:08:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K812c010025 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.15.1da890f8 (4246) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:07:51 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <15.1da890f8.2cfcf997@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:07:51 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pleated berhte 1845 dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/1/2003 2:18:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@frys.com writes: > >There are 4 pieces Two for the front and two for the back The back closes > >at the right schoulder... > >But is every piece just one piece of fabric pleated or are they sepereate > >pleats sown on to a piece of fabric?? > >http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/boehn/mariebourbon1845.JPG > > I'd say a right front piece, a left front piece, a right back piece and a > left back piece. Some of these berthes have piping down the center front > as if there was a seam there. > In this illustration it appears that the pleats do have a CF seam. Sometimes the Berthe is one continuous draped piece across the front, and one across the back closing on the shoulder. This is like the wedding dress in the Bowers Museum. http://www.bowesmuseum.org.uk/collections/image.php3?Name=Wedding+Dress& image=1963-773-a-b-c-cst-742.jpg AND sometimes [a lot] the "fitted" Berthe stops at the shoulder seams [which are usually back further than the top of the shoulder]. This can be seen in the 1839-1845 day dress in the 1st Janet Arnold book. It looks that way in the Winterhalter illustration too. There seems to be a red velvet decorative thing on the shoulder and no pleats in what little of the back is depicted. http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/boehn/mariebourbon1845.JPG _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 15:12:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1KCs74005668 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:12:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1KAoTQ009108; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:10:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1KAm2c013172; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:10:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14001.mail.yahoo.com (web14001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1KAj2c013135 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:10:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201201045.84816.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:10:45 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:10:45 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] tudor mens er... layers To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031201193649.21827.qmail@web40106.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO over the shirt you will have a long sleeve garment with bases. Over that you will have a short sleeve or detachable sleeve garment with bases. Over all this is the great cloak that Henry VIII is usually pictured as wearing. The third layer garment sometimes has a deep neckline so that the decorated second layer can g=be seen, i.e. embroidery, jewels, etc. The greatcloak usually has short puffed sleeves so that the sleeves of the other 2 outer layers can be seen. --- me wrote: > Okay the "womens tudor conundrum" is over (thanks > again) now I have a men's clothing question Jason > (my wonderful husband) Has his nether stocks, shirt, > flat cap and I cannot figure out whether his next > layer is a doublet of some sort with the huge > overcoat next? Can someone shed light on the tudor > middle layers for a gentleman? Thank you Angelique > > ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 15:19:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1KJ774005690 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:19:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1KGwTQ009847; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:16:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1KGs2c019302; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:16:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1KGo2c019231 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:16:50 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201201650.52343.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:16:50 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:16:50 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Master and Commander costumes To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031201104228.058a9e20@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, since I'm not a follower of the novelist I tend to get confused since the REAL HMS Surprise was sold as surplus in 1802 and was most active from 1794-1800. > I was pretty surprised to see what looked like a > mid-1800s parasol one was > carrying. But the costumes should have been early > 19th century with > fashion lag, not 18th century, as the film is set in > 1805. > > > ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 15:51:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Kpf74005809 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:51:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1KorTQ014440; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Kop2c022243; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:50:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Kol2c022185 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:50:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hB1Kr7P21434 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:53:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:53:07 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200312012053.hB1Kr7P21434@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One possible correction: >Necklaces >Women often wore pearl necklaces when buried. When the body was >cremated, the necklaces were in many cases added afterwards, and are >undisturbed today. The strand of pearls shown below also has a cross >attatched. We don't know today whether this actually means that she was >a Christian, or that she believed in both pagan and Christian gods, or >if someone else put it there after she died. (It sounds here as if the >reconstruction is closely based on an actual find, but they don't >include any references unfortunately.) According to current research >ther is much to suggest that many people were "both" pagan and >Christian, and that this was accepted because the views on "belonging >to" a religion were perhaps less dogmatic than today. The photo shows millefiore glass beads. I'd suggest that the translation here is _bead_ necklace. In english, pearls are the semiprecious gems found in oysters' shells. Thank you for the translation. I certainly couldn't puzzle that much out of it. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 16:03:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1L3674005841 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:03:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1KvATQ015132; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:57:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Kv9QB028613; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:57:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Kv6QB028568 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hB1KxRU21519 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:59:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:59:27 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200312012059.hB1KxRU21519@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Kate M Bunting wrote: > > I thought about box-shaped, but wasn't sure if that made sense for the > shape. Thanks for clearing that up! "likarmade" definitely means > "having similar arms"; I guess I was looking for one word and came up > short. :) They're talking about a cruciform shape, yes? Equal-armed cross is the term I've seen used most often in english. Also sometimes called a byzantine cross, but I don't think that would apply here. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 16:11:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1LBh74005862 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:11:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LAsTQ016794; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:10:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LArQB012171; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:10:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LAlQB011945 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:10:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip123.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.123]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839EC6F5BF for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:10:41 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 13:10:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question Message-ID: <3FCB3DD8.15691.476AB8F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <120120031914.25636.6277@att.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > About the only book which has patterns that actually seem to work > > (especially for that belled turnback Tudor sleeve) is Jean > > Hunnisett's _Costume for Stage and Screen 1500-1800_. Hers seems to > > be the only one where the bell of the turnback hangs correctly. > > Actually, when I tried her pattern, it didn't hang correctly because > of the seam placement. I took her pattern and just rotated the seam on > the upper arm. Her sleeve is a modern shape with the seam on the > straight, rather than a period shape with the seam on the bias which > allows for better arm movement. I don't know where you saw it was on the straight. It's very clearly on the bias according to the grid behind it. Unless you are talking about sleeves other than the ones on page 53. Also, if you rotate the seam placement, it won't be along the back of the arm, which is definitely not a modern place for it, as modernly that part is usually at the lowest point of the armscye. It needs to be at the back of the arm to make sure that the seam hangs down the back of the arm instead of under the arm. Also, that allows the straight of the fabric to hang to the floor rather than be at an angle, which is what most people's sleeves often do when I see them done now adays. That makes them angle out funny from the body rather than hanging like the ones in the portraits. I agree completely that the upper part of the sleeve needs to be on the bias so that it gives around the bias when you move. However, that is what the diagram on page 53 shows. I guess I'm just confused as your description doesn't sound like the Hunnisett that I went back to the book to check. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 16:12:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1LC474005865 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:12:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LA5TQ016647; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LA0QB011130; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1L9vQB011003 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:09:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.47.368824ee (2519) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:09:45 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <47.368824ee.2cfd0819@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:09:45 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/1/2003 11:52:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: I am just now finishing something( a piece of metal thread embroidery ) that I started 17 years ago(blush) .Anyone else have anything older? Do I count my pitiful handful of quilt squares that I made, oh, about 35 years ago and have never turned into anything? I keep thinking I will design a square dance skirt around them--I'm certainly never going to make a whole quilt! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 16:18:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1LIM74005884 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:18:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LHFTQ017707; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:17:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LHEQB018505; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:17:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LHAQB018341 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:17:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1cd.1528344a (2519) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:16:54 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1cd.1528344a.2cfd09c6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:16:54 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] swim wear To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As to period swimwear, I made a bathing dress based on the one Mount Vernon has that belonged to Martha Washington. It is linen with cut similar to a chemise, and weights in the hem. Mine is a blue and white printed linen (wish I had bought more of that fabric when I saw it!). There was an article in "Costume," the Journal of the Costume Society, on bathing dress at Bath. Bathers there seem to have worn natural linen smocks or chemise-like garments. I just bought some natural linen to make one. This wasn't swimming, though. I'm not sure if women ever really swam, or just bathed. We know from John Quincy Adams's diary that he went swimming in the Potomac, even as president, when he was no spring chicken, and he did so nude. And on the subject of men's bathing au naturel, the boys at our high school swam that way--they were allowed to wear athletic supporters, though--I remember my brother's hung out to dry and asking my mom what it was. We girls had to wear really hideous red knitted suits that the school provided, but at least we didn't have to carry wet suits home. Needless to say, the classes were NOT co-ed. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 16:25:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1LPh74005895 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:25:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LOVTQ018678; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:24:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LOSQB025752; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:24:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LOLQB025623 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:24:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip123.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.123]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E3106FE27 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:24:20 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 13:24:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] tudor mens er... layers Message-ID: <3FCB410B.26742.4832BFF@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031201193649.21827.qmail@web40106.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Okay the "womens tudor conundrum" is over (thanks again) now I have a > men's clothing question Jason (my wonderful husband) Has his nether > stocks, shirt, flat cap and I cannot figure out whether his next layer > is a doublet of some sort with the huge overcoat next? Can someone > shed light on the tudor middle layers for a gentleman? Thank you > Angelique The layers (starting at the innermost) would be a) a shirt, hose and "underpants" (which I wouldn't worry about. The ones I've found for the time period go from ones which look very much like bikinis to ones which look like boxers. Let him wear what he finds comfortable.) The best shirt for this time period to use as an example is one we fortunately have extant: the 1540's boy's shirt from the V&A. The hose can be to just where the breeches will be like the later nether hose or what we would call "knee socks" or you can use what they probably used in the period: a version of tights. b) the doublet and breeches layer. The doublet is usually waist length and you don't see much of it except where the jerkin is cut in a U shape or at the sleeves. It can have skirts or not. If they are present, they are usually small. The breeches don't show at all except after 1550 (such as in some of the Edward VI portraits as well as Portrait of a Young Man in Red) except where the codpiece which closes its front peaks through c) the jerkin layer. This is the part of the outfit which has the deep U in the front, allowing the doublet to be seen. To this are attached deep skirts which look like pretty fabric versions of the military bases. Although this layer can be sleeved, it is often sleeveless, allowing the doublet sleeves to be seen. d) the coat layer For the theatre they usually combine these historical layers so that the breeches and hose are in one and the doublet and jerkin are one. People seem to be very confused about the jerkin skirts. (I certainly was until I started doing more research into the time period and looked at so many portraits and reading inventories and other primary sources that I finally caught the clue. Also, learning about the layers in Alcega, even though they are about 40-50 years later, helped as well.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 16:32:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1LWt74005920 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:32:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LW5TQ019585; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:32:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LW3QB003650; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9401.mail.yahoo.com (web9401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1LW0QB003601 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:32:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201213200.97070.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.251.232] by web9401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 13:32:00 PST Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:32:00 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <47.368824ee.2cfd0819@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well--I'd count them:) And if not a square dance quilt--what about table cover and/or place mats?? Seems a shame not to use them for something! Albra AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/1/2003 11:52:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: I am just now finishing something( a piece of metal thread embroidery ) that I started 17 years ago(blush) .Anyone else have anything older? Do I count my pitiful handful of quilt squares that I made, oh, about 35 years ago and have never turned into anything? I keep thinking I will design a square dance skirt around them--I'm certainly never going to make a whole quilt! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 16:36:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1LaF74005935 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:36:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LWPTQ019633; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:32:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LWPQB004010; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:32:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LWMQB003876 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:32:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 968BE1A0017 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:32:15 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FCBB4AE.6090509@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:37:50 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pleated berhte 1845 dress References: <15.1da890f8.2cfcf997@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >> >> > >In this illustration it appears that the pleats do have a CF seam. Sometimes >the Berthe is one continuous draped piece across the front, and one across the >back closing on the shoulder. This is like the wedding dress in the Bowers >Museum. > >http://www.bowesmuseum.org.uk/collections/image.php3?Name=Wedding+Dress& >image=1963-773-a-b-c-cst-742.jpg > I like the four piece berthe more > >AND sometimes [a lot] the "fitted" Berthe stops at the shoulder seams [which >are usually back further than the top of the shoulder]. This can be seen in >the 1839-1845 day dress in the 1st Janet Arnold book. It looks that way in the >Winterhalter illustration too. There seems to be a red velvet decorative thing >on the shoulder and no pleats in what little of the back is depicted. > I made the bodice from the janet Arnold 1861 evening dress pattern but I don't understand the berthe pieces. My schoulder straps are a bit longer so I could't use it any way. I had to make them longer because the curves in the dress where my brests schould be were much to high. Now it is fitting nice. I Think I got the front right but now the back.... Tomorrow..... Thanks, Deredere > >http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/boehn/mariebourbon1845.JPG >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 16:39:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1LdI74005945 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:39:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Lb5TQ020206; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Lb3QB008827; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LavQB008695 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:36:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15281 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:03:01 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:03:01 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support In-Reply-To: <1070290890.3fcb57ca07381@webmail.soton.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Hilary Davidson wrote: > > I actually have another unrelated question for anyone who knows...I've > > searched and searched online and can't find the answer: what sort of > > underwear existed for women in the 12th century? I'm especially > > interested in bust support. I"ve noticed (in woodcuts and paintings) > > that > > women tend to have rather 'perkier' busts than I would have thought > > during that time period than if they had no support. Did the outer > > garments do this job? > No idea if any supporting underwear existed, but I've found in late > 13th c dresses that if it's close fitting enough, everything stays > where it's meant to (with occasional hoicks :), whether front or back > opening. Well enough that I can happily go bra-less and forget about > it. Having no shaping at the bust like darts or seaming means breasts > are sort of bound in place. I don't know how this would work for women > with a lot up top. If the gown you're looking at is losser, a cloth > binging under it would serve a similar purpose, though the tension at > the shoulders in a dress keeps all pointing skyward. Maybe cross- > binding, in the X shape seen on greek chitons. I missed the original query, so I don't know who posted that, or whether there was more detail. Like Hilary, I've found that wearing 2-3 layers of close-fitting (though not necessarily tight) dresses cuts way down on bounce. Also, even as a large-busted woman, I look better without a bra when I'm wearing loose tunic-style gowns, because my bulk lies closer to my body instead of protruding forward and making my whole torso look fat from the bust down. For the 12th-c. gowns that were more closely fitted with side-lacing, the tightness would also provide some stabilization, though not necessarily uplift. (The layer closest to your body would of course be a linen chemise, which is the one piece of underwear we can be certain of in most instances.) It's worth noting that women of that period were almost certainly much smaller built, on average, than U.S. women today, who are (on average) of heavier weight. That's not to say all American women are heavy or larger-busted than all 12th century women, but rather that the norms would have been different, and fashion is usually designed around the needs of the norm. It's also worth noting that it's likely that some highly fashionable women of the 12th century bound their breasts, perhaps to look better in the fitted tunics of the time. The citation suggesting this is part of a longer harangue about women's vanity written by a monk. I have it somewhere, though not at fingertips at the moment. If anyone needs it, say so, and I'll dig it up. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 16:41:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Lff74005952 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:41:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LdmTQ020567; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:39:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LdjQB011493; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:39:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LdgQB011430 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:39:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.150]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LdfGS001753 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:39:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031201133728.05a81f00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 13:39:21 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Master and Commander costumes In-Reply-To: <20031201201650.52343.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20031201104228.058a9e20@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You wouldn't have to have read the novels. The film gives the year as 1805 at the very beginning. In fact, a couple of the novels were ransacked for parts for this film. But that's OK - it's a good film. >Ok, since I'm not a follower of the novelist I tend to >get confused since the REAL HMS Surprise was sold as >surplus in 1802 and was most active from 1794-1800. > > I was pretty surprised to see what looked like a > > mid-1800s parasol one was > > carrying. But the costumes should have been early > > 19th century with > > fashion lag, not 18th century, as the film is set in > > 1805. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 16:44:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Li074005960 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:44:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LhDTQ020952; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:43:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LhCQB014763; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:43:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Lh8QB014699 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:43:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15360 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:09:13 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:09:13 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for mailman fabric In-Reply-To: <001301c3b844$c7064670$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Linda Rice wrote: > If anyone knows where to get U.S.P.S. uniform fabric and all the > fixin's, would you please let me know? I've tried the uniform sellers, > but no one seems to have the yardage available for do-it-yourselfers. Can you buy the absolute largest available size, take it apart, and re-cut from the pieces? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 16:57:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Lvr74005989 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:57:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LtqTQ022520; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LtpHd027112; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:55:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LtlHd026963 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:55:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.136.27e3c161 (16335) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:55:39 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <136.27e3c161.2cfd12db@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:55:39 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pleated berhte 1845 dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/1/2003 4:33:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > made the bodice from the janet Arnold 1861 evening dress pattern but I > don't understand the berthe pieces. > I'm sorry.....all this time I thought you were doing an 1840's gown. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 16:59:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Lx974005996 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:59:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Lt0UU022331; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:57:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LfsQB013610; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:41:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1LfnQB013501 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:41:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15338 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:07:51 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:07:51 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wool Vendor In-Reply-To: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA95A6@exchange.lynchburg.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Formo, Nathan wrote: > I'm just now catching up on digest posts from this weekend. I've got > a question for anyone who knows about fabric. The eBay seller has > several auctions of wool gabardine fabric. The prices seem really > nice. I'm currently looking for wool but I want something fairly > thick since I will be making a cloak. Is gabardine what I want or is > it going to be too thin? As long as we're on the topic are there any > key words like gabardine that I should be looking for while looking > for a thicker wool? Gabardine will be a men's suiting weight. It is usually made from a worsted wool, which is fine and has a dull shine, not like the heavy woolens you are probably thinking of. If you want a heavy cloak, this isn't it. A "wool twill" could be either worsted or woollen, thinner or thicker, and is worth investigating. Another keyword to look for is coat-weight (if you want it *really* heavy); don't hesitate to ask us about specific weave names and descriptions. You can also email the seller and ask whether something is suit-weight or coat-weight, and whether it's worsted or woolen. Not all non-worsteds are heavy, but that's a good start in narrowing it down. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 17:06:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1M6p74006025 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:06:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1M4QTQ023837; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:04:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1M4OHd006513; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:04:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1M4KHd006375 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:04:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.96.201.18]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031201220408.IKOH2192.lakemtao03.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:04:08 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for mailman fabric Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:04:01 -0500 Message-ID: <001a01c3b857$0a032670$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hB1M4KHd006375 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, that's the problem. He's pushing the size limit as is at 6'5" and around 300lbs. Yup, he's a big and tall guy! He can get pants that sort of fit, but he always has trouble with the rise and the seat not fitting correctly. His uniform pants are outrageously expensive anyway and the company allowance doesn't go nearly far enough. I think it's something like $200, which has to buy shoes, shirts, pants and shorts for a year. If I could make the pants and shorts that would help out tremendously. I'm sorry this has no real historic content at all, but if the folks on this list don't know where to find a fabric, then I'm betting it can't be found. ;o> Robin, do you think Camille at FFC would know where to get it? Thanks! ::Linda:: -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 6:09 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for mailman fabric On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Linda Rice wrote: > If anyone knows where to get U.S.P.S. uniform fabric and all the > fixin's, would you please let me know? I've tried the uniform sellers, > but no one seems to have the yardage available for do-it-yourselfers. Can you buy the absolute largest available size, take it apart, and re-cut from the pieces? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 17:36:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Ma974006117 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:36:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1MYuTQ027596; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:34:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1MYMHT007331; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:34:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1MY8HT007011 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:34:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.131.46.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([67.74.131.46] helo=diane) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AQwcF-0003P2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:34:04 -0800 Message-ID: <022601c3b85b$47a3d5c0$2e834a43@diane> From: "Diane Maynard" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1cd.1528344a.2cfd09c6@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] swim wear Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:34:26 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And on the subject of men's bathing au naturel, the boys at our high school > swam that way--they were allowed to wear athletic supporters, though--I > remember my brother's hung out to dry and asking my mom what it was. We girls had to > wear really hideous red knitted suits that the school provided, but at least > we didn't have to carry wet suits home. Needless to say, the classes were NOT > co-ed. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ I am sorry but, I have to jump in here. WHERE ARE YOU ? AND WHAT TIME FRAME ? I have always thought that I was one of the older persons on this list ( I am closing in on 50 this year ) and this was NOT the norm at my Junior or Sr. High School. I was on the girl's swim team in both Jr. & Sr. High and we had close fitting lacra/nylon swim suits just like they use today. Actually, I was on the diving team and we used the pool at the same time as the swim team (both boys and girls). This was PUBLIC school in Texas in the early 60's and I would have assumed that we were behind the rest of the U.S. but maybe not. Are you that much older than me or is Texas more progressive than I thought ? Boys had to wear suits and girls were allowed in the pool at he same time. I had always thought of Texas as being a little behind the rest of the U.S. but, perhaps I am wrong. Diane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 17:49:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1Mnj74006130 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:49:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1MmqTQ029635; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:48:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1MmjHT023118; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:48:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1MmbHT023006 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:48:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-120-29.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.120.29]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BIF01847; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:47:10 GMT Message-ID: <02e801c3b85d$ed6fc3e0$427b4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1070290890.3fcb57ca07381@webmail.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:53:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As somebody who has never worn a bra in my life, I'm of the unsupported opinion that bust flop down more when the spend more time supported. I've had 3 kids, breastfed for at total of 4 years or so and although there is so sag these days for 41 years old, they still hold their own and don't agrivate by bouncing overmuch :) >It's worth noting that women of that period were almost certainly much smaller built I'm totally unconvinced on that one, sorry Robin. Certaily the Skellies I research in depth (which are somewhat earlier it is true ie Middle & Late Saxon) are of average height for today (both men and women) and much, much more muscular, yes the women are more muscular than most modern men. Smaller build tends to come with industrilisation and town dwelling and the resulting long term, borderline stavation rather than relativly healthy living Bust size is not necessarily dependent an build in any case :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 18:00:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1N0l74006171 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:00:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1MwaTQ000936; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:58:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1MveqP001829; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:58:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1MuYqP000629 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from no-dns-yet.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223] helo=montgomerie.demon.co.uk) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AQwxu-000JLq-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:56:27 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:53:19 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] 10th century Norse costume References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Ussailis wrote >On Friday 28 November 2003 07:54 am, Catherine Ussailis wrote: >> Hey, what are all of you complaining about? Sewing by hand isn't so >> bad. Wimps. ;-) > >You haven't seen my stitching. :-) > > Well, you know, practice makes perfect...! ;) > >> Sadly, there are no pictures of any costume on that page, but I'm sure if >> you emailed them, theyd send you a picture, or at least some information. >> I know you're doing 'Dublin', > >Nope, Sue Cleminger is doing "Dublin". I'm not there yet; I'm interested in >other variations of Viking attire. :-) > > Sorry! I knew that there were two people doing Viking, but got you >mixed up - I had deleted one and not the other, if that makes sense. > > I actually have another unrelated question for anyone who knows...I've >searched and searched online and can't find the answer: what sort of >underwear existed for women in the 12th century? I'm especially >interested in bust support. I"ve noticed (in woodcuts and paintings) that >women tend to have rather 'perkier' busts than I would have thought >during that time period than if they had no support. Did the outer >garments do this job? > > Thanks! > > Kate! > I don't know of any evidence for any specialist underwear, as far as I'm aware it was just underdresses. It's really mid-way through the 12th century that they started to invent ways of fitting a dress tighter at the waist than the bust, before that there don't seem to be any openings, so it has to go over your bust before it gets to your waist. When you start having various ways of tightening the dress around the ribs, then it will stop the bust hanging down. As to actual mechanisms - well, there goes the bliaut discussion again! There appear to be ways of pulling it tight by lacing, but whether at side or back, with an opening or just pleating the extra fabric in, who knows? Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 18:11:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1NBb74006249 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:11:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1N9UTQ002432; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:09:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1N9TqP014844; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:09:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1N9QqP014807 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:09:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip219.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.219]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373156FE13 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:09:25 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:09:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Message-ID: <3FCB59A8.21174.4E35118@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <02e801c3b85d$ed6fc3e0$427b4ed5@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > As somebody who has never worn a bra in my life, I'm of the > unsupported opinion that bust flop down more when the spend more time > supported. I've had 3 kids, breastfed for at total of 4 years or so > and although there is so sag these days for 41 years old, they still > hold their own and don't agrivate by bouncing overmuch :) I'm with you! I rarely wore a bra, mostly because I couldn't find ones that fit around my ribcage (I'm at my largest I've ever been and still only need a size 32" band size. Most of my life I was more like a 28". They rarely make bras smaller than 34" except for training bras and expensive specialty ones.) However, I noticed (while watching Starship Troopers when it first came to the movie theatres) that most 24 year olds had far more droop than I did at more than double that age. I'm within a few months of 50, with a DD cup size and I droop very little. So, I firmly believe that Coopers Droop is a myth perpetrated to get women to wear bras. Either that or I've been extremely lucky over the years. However, I don't believe that one the average women in the 12th C were as weighty as present day American women. I've seen all the statistics and while they might have been more muscular, I sincerely doubt they would have had as much adipose. What this boils down to is that they probably were smaller busted. (Think athletic women who seem to be fried eggs unless they've had implants, as opposed to the average American woman.) So, the 12th Century woman probably would be contained just fine by just her side laced gown without having to have a special bra or corset. (Someone who was exceedingly large might bind their breasts like bandaging, but I've never seen anything to suggest a special breast garment.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 18:24:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1NOJ74006284 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:24:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1NNVTQ004152; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:23:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1NNTXE027953; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:23:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1NNMXE027790 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:23:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16285 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:49:17 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:49:17 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support In-Reply-To: <02e801c3b85d$ed6fc3e0$427b4ed5@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Melanie Wilson wrote: > >It's worth noting that women of that period were almost certainly much > smaller built > > I'm totally unconvinced on that one, sorry Robin. Certaily the > Skellies I research in depth (which are somewhat earlier it is true ie > Middle & Late Saxon) are of average height for today (both men and > women) and much, much more muscular, yes the women are more muscular > than most modern men. Smaller build tends to come with > industrilisation and town dwelling and the resulting long term, > borderline stavation rather than relativly healthy living > > Bust size is not necessarily dependent an build in any case :) Let me rephrase, then. I was trying to be delicate. I was not referring to height or musculature. I was referring to fat. And body fat content does have an influence on bust size. In my experience, a noticeably large proportion of today's historical costumers and re-enactors are of noticeably large proportions. They are going to have a harder time replicating the silhouette or even (in some cases) the construction methods of clothing styles that were designed for a slimmer norm. Yes, there were fat people in period, but I gather not to the quantity and degree that we see today. I would wager that they constituted far less of the population compared with today's re-enactment (and maybe general U.S.) population; they were probably distributed later in the age range compared with today; and the degree of overweight was quite unlikely to be as extreme as often as it is today. I don't know if the skeletons bear this out. I do know that extant garments and artwork do. And even if the artwork tends to favor attractive people, we also need to consider that many of the questions that arise among costumers are based on replicating costumes as seen in artwork, and depicted as modeled by people who are often slimmer than the modern person seeking to replicate the look. That includes the question that started this discussion -- how do you achieve the perky bosom seen in 12th century depictions. It may be that part of the answer is to start with the body type of the people being depicted in the artwork you're emulating. (And I have no idea whether the original questioner is thin, fat, or in-between, which is why I addressed several angles on "achieving a perky bosom in 12th century clothing," only one of them having to do with body type, in case that was a factor for the questioner.) It's true that we don't know if the art is representative of the population overall. Maybe there were a whole lot of fat people around who weren't being pictured. I doubt it, but I don't know enough to rule it out. But even if that's the case, it's a fair bet that *they* wouldn't have looked like the slim people in the pictures, and also that they didn't achieve the same clothing silhouette. So knowing that there were at least some overweight people in the period still doesn't tell you whether the clothing looked the same on them. Which brings us back to the same answer: to achieve the perky bosom seen in 12th century depictions or any other characteristic of a silhouette seen in period art, part of the requirement may be to start with a body type similar to the people in the depictions you're trying to replicate. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 18:28:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1NST74006293 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:28:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1NRpTQ004739; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:27:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1NRpXE002546; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:27:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1NRmXE002419 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:27:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.7e.424e58ae (18251) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:27:38 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <7e.424e58ae.2cfd286a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:27:38 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] swim wear To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/1/2003 5:36:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, Camelothorse@earthlink.net writes: Are you that much older than me or is Texas more progressive than I thought ? Boys had to wear suits and girls were allowed in the pool at he same time. I had always thought of Texas as being a little behind the rest of the U.S. but, perhaps I am wrong. I'm just over 50, and, actually, our high school, Normandy High School in St. Louis County, MO, may have been out of the norm, because periodically people would call the radio station to say, "you know what that school is doing in swim classes?" We were, however, one of the few schools to have a swimming pool at all. My brother was 7 years older, but it continued through my years, and I think for some years after, as I seem to remember hearing one of the above calls later. The radio station would call the school superintendent to confirm if it was true. (He later went on to be athletic director at Mizzou, by the way.) The boys on the swim team of course wore trunks. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 18:31:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1NVF74006304 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:31:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1NUaTQ005097; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:30:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1NUZXE005338; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:30:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1NUVXE005229 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:30:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.96.201.18]) by lakemtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031201233013.HSAW2297.lakemtao02.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:30:13 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:30:12 -0500 Message-ID: <002201c3b863$1453b890$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hB1NUVXE005229 Subject: [h-cost] yardsale books part 2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It seems like somebody else had even better luck than I. DH went back to the house that had the books to see if there was anything left over. Well sure there was, but another person came by on Sunday and asked, so they just *GAVE* it all to them. The story is that the man's mother was a professional costumer and she passed away. He was cleaning out her belongings and had absolutely no clue of its value. He did say that there may be a bit more stuff later, if so he'll be sure to tell us. I'm still thrilled with what I got. It's the best Christmas in years! ::Linda:: ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 18:33:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1NX274006316 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:33:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1NTPTQ004919; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:29:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1NTMXE004013; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:29:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1NTHXE003861 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:29:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.22.40455f9d (18251) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:29:07 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <22.40455f9d.2cfd28c3@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:29:07 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] swim wear To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/1/2003 5:36:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, Camelothorse@earthlink.net writes: Boys had to wear suits and girls were allowed in the pool at he same time. All our gym classes were single sex, by the way. I don't think we ever had any free swim time. Both boys and girls had swim teams, but I'm not sure if they practiced together or not. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 19:54:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB20sC74006524 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:54:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB20rJTQ018506; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:53:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB20rFs4018985; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:53:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB20rCs4018865 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:53:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 991881B7B33 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:50:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 07787-03 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:50:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 89C041B7DB7 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:50:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007c01c3b86e$a3e14a30$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FCB59A8.21174.4E35118@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:53:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support > > However, I noticed (while watching Starship Troopers when it first > came to the movie theatres) that most 24 year olds had far more droop > than I did at more than double that age. I'm within a few months of > 50, with a DD cup size and I droop very little. > > So, I firmly believe that Coopers Droop is a myth perpetrated to get > women to wear bras. Either that or I've been extremely lucky over the > years. And then there are those of us with a relatively small bust, who have had droop since we had a bust! Mine were NEVER perky. They have pointed at my knees since there was anything there to point at anything. I also have a difficult time finding comfortable bras, because although I have a fairly small frame in general, I have an expansive rib cage. Finding one that fits properly is an adventure! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 19:59:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB20x774006535 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:59:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB20wNTQ019354; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:58:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB20wMKe022860; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:58:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB20wGKe022792 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:58:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ap-018scfairp0383.dialsprint.net ([63.183.177.129] helo=faucet.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AQyrn-0002tT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:58:15 -0800 Message-ID: <3FCBF161.8090605@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:56:49 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > The citation suggesting this is part of a > longer harangue about women's vanity written by a monk. I have it > somewhere, though not at fingertips at the moment. It can be found in an article called "'Well-Cut through the Body:' Fitted clothing in Twelfth-Century Europe" by Christina Frieder Waugh in the 1999 volume of Dress (the journal of the Costume Society of America). On page 8 she quotes [translated from Latin]: "I refer you to the devices of women, who cultivate and develop physical beauty and have mastered this art. For what are they more anxious to avoid in embellishing the bosom, than that the breasts be overgrown and shapeless and flabby? ... Therefore they constrain overgrown and flabby breasts with breast-bands, artfully remedying the shortcomings of nature." This was (according to her endnotes) from a sermon given by Gilbert of Hoyland, who died in 1172. This is the translation given in the text (which is to say, I didn't do it!), but if anyone wants the Latin, it's given in the endnotes. Let me know and I'll send it. Cheers, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume http://www.coastal.edu/theater _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 20:44:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB21ig74006656 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:44:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB21i3TQ025461; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:44:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB21hwKe022212; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:43:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB21hrKe022085 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:43:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.41 ([204.127.135.41]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2003120201434711200het5ne>; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:43:47 +0000 Received: from [12.72.249.25] by 204.127.135.41; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 01:43:47 +0000 From: mmcnealy@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 01:43:47 +0000 Message-Id: <120220030143.9612.3017@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: bW1jbmVhbHlAYXR0Lm5ldA== X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the great text! ;) But I still want to know, How did a monk know what women wore underneath their gowns? Perhaps he was a bad monk? or A Peeping Monk? ;) -Marion > It can be found in an article called "'Well-Cut through the Body:' > Fitted clothing in Twelfth-Century Europe" by Christina Frieder Waugh in > the 1999 volume of Dress (the journal of the Costume Society of > America). On page 8 she quotes [translated from Latin]: > > "I refer you to the devices of women, who cultivate and develop physical > beauty and have mastered this art. For what are they more anxious to > avoid in embellishing the bosom, than that the breasts be overgrown and > shapeless and flabby? ... Therefore they constrain overgrown and flabby > breasts with breast-bands, artfully remedying the shortcomings of nature." > > This was (according to her endnotes) from a sermon given by Gilbert of > Hoyland, who died in 1172. This is the translation given in the text > (which is to say, I didn't do it!), but if anyone wants the Latin, it's > given in the endnotes. Let me know and I'll send it. > > Cheers, > Melanie Schuessler > > http://www.faucet.net/costume > http://www.coastal.edu/theater _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 20:54:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB21sY74006713 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:54:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB21s2TQ026325; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB21s0Ke028087; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB21rsKf027981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:53:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB21qOPX016959 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:52:24 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:52:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FCBF0EB.3080304@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:54:51 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support References: <120220030143.9612.3017@att.net> In-Reply-To: <120220030143.9612.3017@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO mmcnealy@att.net wrote: > Thanks for the great text! ;) But I still want to know, How did a monk know > what women wore underneath their gowns? Maybe he had a sister. Or, if it's early enough, the whole "chastity" thing was once interpreted to only mean "not married" not "not sexually active." So he might have had a lover. I'd have to dig out my history text to get the date, though, that they got stricter. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent No buckles, no pointy collars! What did the pilgrims really wear? http://t3.preservice.org/T0210276/pilgrimsindex.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 21:18:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB22It74006762 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:18:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB22I1TQ028323; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB22Huxn013103; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:17:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB22Hrxn013013 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:17:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20031202021558.JORS317816.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:15:58 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.10 (webedge20-101-191-20030113) From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:15:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [127.0.0.1] using ID at Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:15:58 -0500 Message-Id: <20031202021558.JORS317816.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > but if anyone wants the Latin, it's > given in the endnotes. Let me know and I'll send it. I'd like to see it, if you could send me a copy... Susan (nicolaa55@yahoo.com) up to her eyeballs in Latin clothing references at the moment... 1 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 21:43:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB22hs74006788 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:43:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB22eMTQ000550; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:40:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB22eLxn027510; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:40:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB22eGxn027470 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:40:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17439 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:06:22 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:06:22 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support In-Reply-To: <3FCBF161.8090605@faucet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > It can be found in an article called "'Well-Cut through the Body:' > Fitted clothing in Twelfth-Century Europe" by Christina Frieder Waugh in > the 1999 volume of Dress (the journal of the Costume Society of > America). Thanks, Melanie. That would have been the place I'd have looked first, but the article is filed ... somewhere ... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 21:44:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB22ik74006792 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:44:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB22i8TQ000926; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB22i7xn029838; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB22i5xn029744 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:44:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OszcdJMGgzKvjtE/5KaZq/w=">; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 18:43:40 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JGC36XLF; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 18:43:40 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:22:25 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Message-ID: <20031201.184308.1232.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-20 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you tried Lane Bryant? I'm a 36B, but have been singing my whole life so have a ribcage that belongs on an American football player. Someone there fitted me. The brand I buy is Cacique, and they are extremely comfortable for everything I do. Do you live in the U.S.? Arlys > I also have a difficult time finding comfortable bras, because > although I > have a fairly small frame in general, I have an expansive rib cage. > Finding > one that fits properly is an adventure! > > Dianne > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 22:02:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB232X74006847 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:02:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB22veTQ002306; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:57:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB22vbTU008442; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:57:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB22vYTU008349 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:57:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m61.in-tch.com [216.166.191.61]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hB22a7V17056 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:36:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FCC003A.B43AC399@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:00:10 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question References: <3FCB0D50.8265.3B91793@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, but aren't they all cut on the bias? I don't know of any sleeves from that time that are cut on the bias. Plus, it seems awfully wasteful.... --sue's 2 pence worth kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > I have my bodies, drafted my bodice and working hard on my spanish > > farthingale. Heres my weird question of the day :-) How are the > > sleeves of a tudor gown attatched Oversleeves? Undersleeves? It's so > > hard for me to tell from photographs of portraits. Thank you, > > Angelique > > About the only book which has patterns that actually seem to work > (especially for that belled turnback Tudor sleeve) is Jean > Hunnisett's _Costume for Stage and Screen 1500-1800_. Hers seems to > be the only one where the bell of the turnback hangs correctly. > > She also gives ideas for the undersleeves, although since we don't > have any extant ones or pictures of ladies putting them on, *any* way > of doing them is going to be speculation/conjecture. Her method of > doing the undersleeve is as good as any other. > > Kat > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 22:09:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB239t74006858 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:09:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB239GTQ003315; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:09:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB239DTU015635; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:09:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB239ATU015550 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:09:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m61.in-tch.com [216.166.191.61]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hB22lhV21972 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:47:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FCC02F2.2623C112@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:11:46 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering References: <20031201165203.79978.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes. A patchwork quilt I started about 18 or 19 years ago. It's a sampler of mixed applique and pieced blocks. The blocks are actually all done, but I've never pieced them together and quilted them. Woe to my quilting stuff, I discovered the SCA and historical needlework and costuming about 16 years ago . --sue, who wants to quilt herself an 18th c. petticoat one of these days, if she can find the right fabric (glazed wool, anyone???) KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > > Same here---usually 5 or 6 projects going at once--my husband says I 'orbit ' around several projects at once. The downside is , that unless there is deadline to worry about--nothing gets finished for a VERY long while--and then suddenly a whole series is done:) Sometimes projects do get lost in the shuffle ,though ,before I canget back to them. I am just now finishing something( a piece of metal thread embroidery ) that I started 17 years ago(blush) .Anyone else have anything older? > Albra > > Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > Do you ever work on two different styles? It helps me be able > > to actually work and get things done by distracting when a bit of > > bordom/frustration sets in;) > > Two? Nah, three, four, five... :-) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 22:20:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB23Kk74006896 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:20:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23KATQ004387; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:20:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23K7TU022958; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:20:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23K3TV022923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:20:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (acty3069.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.248.69]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hB24ML17012594 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:22:24 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCC04DB.8060501@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:19:55 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] tudor mens er... layers References: <3FCB410B.26742.4832BFF@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FCB410B.26742.4832BFF@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Just an addition to what Kat has said... Look at some of the "undress" clothing of this period, notably the "Landsknecht" styles to see what was worn under the "court" clothes. The hose evolved from the full covering style of the late 15th Cent. with codpiece into the separate garment of breeches and hose through a whole process which you really have to trace through visual images to really understand (mostly, apparently, due to the need for freedom of movement in military clothing, if you judge by the Landsknecht stuff...). Suffice it to say that the hose, in their two-part-yet-connected early 16th Cent. version, were connected via points (ties) to the doublet. The doublet is worn on top of the singlet (the shirt), hence the name. The hose and doublet connection can be seen in it's later version by looking at the Sture clothing from Sweden in Patterns of Fashion. The jerkin can also be replaced by a robe with full bases (shirts), such as that worn by Harry VIIIs fool Will Somers on pg. 38 of Ashelford's Visual History book. At that point, overclothing becomes an issue related more to status, wealth and position. Doctors (both of Medicine and Divinity) wear distinguishing overrobes and birettas, for examples. Petit Bourgoisie such as merchants, ship's masters, etc. have other sorts of overgowns, much less fancy than that of the nobility (see pg 39 of Ashelford for another look). Hope this isn't as clear as mud... Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 22:23:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB23N974006907 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:23:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23MUTQ004648; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:22:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23MUTU024586; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:22:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23MRTU024506 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:22:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m61.in-tch.com [216.166.191.61]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hB2310V27881 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:01:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FCC060F.EA41416B@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:25:03 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support References: <3FCB59A8.21174.4E35118@localhost> <007c01c3b86e$a3e14a30$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And there's folks like me, now quite large (sigh), but always big-busted. I went from completely flat to a really generous C cup in about 6 months. The girls never had a chance to be perky. They certainly don't now. If I had to wear a style/time period that was too loose to give me proper "support," I'd probably either just wear a bra, or some sort of sports bra. In neither would I actually be perky--the only times I've achieved *that* state of affairs in my adult life have been in a Gothic Fitted Gown prototype, and in an Elizabethan corset (with a really snug ItalianRen coming close). As someone who's out of the modern norm, as well as the historical one, figuring out how to handle fitting and appearance "challenges" in a non-modern way can actually be kinda fun (above mention of a sports bra notwithstanding). I recently had a heck of a time figuring out how to do a decent square-necked shift for my 16th c. Flemish outfit, but once I did, I was quite pleased with the results--I tried to apply what someone from the time would have known about making shifts and such to my own (modern) architecture. Heck, it worked great, and I now have a prototype that's not only good for the shift I originally wanted, but also for early time periods (tee-tunic type stuff). --sue Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 6:09 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support > > > > > However, I noticed (while watching Starship Troopers when it first > > came to the movie theatres) that most 24 year olds had far more droop > > than I did at more than double that age. I'm within a few months of > > 50, with a DD cup size and I droop very little. > > > > So, I firmly believe that Coopers Droop is a myth perpetrated to get > > women to wear bras. Either that or I've been extremely lucky over the > > years. > > And then there are those of us with a relatively small bust, who have had > droop since we had a bust! Mine were NEVER perky. They have pointed at my > knees since there was anything there to point at anything. > > I also have a difficult time finding comfortable bras, because although I > have a fairly small frame in general, I have an expansive rib cage. Finding > one that fits properly is an adventure! > > Dianne > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 22:24:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB23OK74006913 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:24:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23NhTQ004775; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:23:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23NgTU025354; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:23:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23NdTU025220 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:23:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m61.in-tch.com [216.166.191.61]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hB232BV28509 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:02:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FCC0656.1D613F79@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:26:14 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support References: <3FCBF161.8090605@faucet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That would be cool, Melanie! Thanks, Sue Melanie Schuessler wrote: > > This was (according to her endnotes) from a sermon given by Gilbert of > Hoyland, who died in 1172. This is the translation given in the text > (which is to say, I didn't do it!), but if anyone wants the Latin, it's > given in the endnotes. Let me know and I'll send it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 22:43:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB23h274006978 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:43:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23gETQ006853; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:42:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23gDTU007564; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:42:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23g9TV007529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:42:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB23hhUZ002532 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:43:43 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB23hhJK002530 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:43:43 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wool Vendor Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:43:43 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312012243.43228.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 December 2003 06:07 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Formo, Nathan wrote: > > I'm just now catching up on digest posts from this weekend. I've got > > a question for anyone who knows about fabric. The eBay seller has > > several auctions of wool gabardine fabric. The prices seem really > > nice. I'm currently looking for wool but I want something fairly > > thick since I will be making a cloak. Is gabardine what I want or is > > it going to be too thin? As long as we're on the topic are there any > > key words like gabardine that I should be looking for while looking > > for a thicker wool? You may want to look for "wool coating" or "coating weight"; fabric.com (i.e. Phoenix Textiles) and Fashion Fabrics Club use that term to designate heavier wools. Some of them are twills, while some are heavily felted so the weave can't be seen. Wool melton (just got some from Phoenix) is not quite as heavy as the coating weight, but feels to me as though it would make a good cloak. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 22:58:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB23wm74007038 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:58:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23w0TQ008225; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23vw5I017028; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:57:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB23vq5I016971 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:57:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hB23vpAA025693 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:57:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.229] (tnt-1-37.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.229]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB23vlRC025426 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:57:49 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <47.368824ee.2cfd0819@aol.com> References: <47.368824ee.2cfd0819@aol.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:11:04 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 4:09 PM -0500 12/1/03, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/1/2003 11:52:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, >albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: >I am just now finishing something( a piece of metal thread embroidery ) that >I started 17 years ago(blush) .Anyone else have anything older? >Do I count my pitiful handful of quilt squares that I made, oh, about 35 >years ago and have never turned into anything? I keep thinking I >will design a >square dance skirt around them--I'm certainly never going to make a >whole quilt! Just the other day, I pulled out the box with an unfinished needlepoint project I started in college ... which would make it over 25 years ago. And I still have the patchwork quilt top that I started in high school, which _may_ put it back 30 years. But I could cheat and note that some day I plan to finish the pulled-thread edgings on a set of placemats that my mother started when _she_ was in college, which gets us back to ... hmm ... roughly 50 years ago. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 23:02:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB242c74007060 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:02:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB241xTQ008553; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:01:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB241w5I019339; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:01:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB241u5I019273 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:01:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from 0020830266 (12-248-149-36.client.attbi.com[12.248.149.36]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <200312020401191130043cuve> (Authid: ladysarafina@att.net); Tue, 2 Dec 2003 04:01:35 +0000 Message-ID: <005a01c3b888$e5d96ac0$2495f80c@attbi.com> From: "Sarafina Sinclair" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FCB0D50.8265.3B91793@localhost> <3FCC003A.B43AC399@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:59:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1123 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1123 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The sleeves aren't cut on the bias. The seams are cut on the bias. Do you have access to the spanish tailor's handbook? It'll show you better than I can tell you. If not, I can scan a page in to show you. Sarafina ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- The Honourable Lady Sarafina Sinclair, CE, CW, APF http://ladysarafina.home.att.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question > Yeah, but aren't they all cut on the bias? I don't know of any sleeves > from that time that are cut on the bias. Plus, it seems awfully > wasteful.... > --sue's 2 pence worth /listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 23:12:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB24Ck74007111 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:12:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24CATQ009646; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:12:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24C85I024924; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:12:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24C45J024887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:12:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB24DdUZ002754 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:13:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB24DcsQ002752 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:13:38 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: viking costume Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:13:38 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <006a01c3b828$67b84cc0$2101a8c0@DHoffryn> In-Reply-To: <006a01c3b828$67b84cc0$2101a8c0@DHoffryn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312012313.38662.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 December 2003 11:30 am, Joanna Hobbins wrote: > http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/eng/drakt.htm After I sent my reply, I noticed that the page Joanna found does not list all the patterns (the 14th and 15th c ones) and for the men's stuff it says "coming soon". So the Museum apparently has put someone to work translating these costume-related parts of the site, at least. Maybe they'll even translate the directions that go with the patterns they have PDF's for! :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 23:13:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB24D274007116 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:13:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24A5U8009346; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:12:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB248p5I023146; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:08:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB248m5J023117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:08:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB24ANUZ002695 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:10:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB24ANq9002692 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:10:23 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: viking costume Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:10:22 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <006a01c3b828$67b84cc0$2101a8c0@DHoffryn> In-Reply-To: <006a01c3b828$67b84cc0$2101a8c0@DHoffryn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312012310.22762.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 December 2003 11:30 am, Joanna Hobbins wrote: > Some parts of the website have been officially translated into english. > > http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/eng/drakt.htm > > I have no idea how to get to the english page from the main site > unfortunately, or even if other parts of the site are in english. Thanks for finding this! I went to the URL you found, and it showed the page with the links to pictures of the costume reproductions in English. I went to the page for the "Viking noble woman," and the introductory page was in English, but the pages for the different items of her costume were not. Sigh. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 23:15:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB24F974007127 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:15:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24EXTQ009903; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:14:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24EV5I026182; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:14:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24ER5J026150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:14:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB24G2UZ002776 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:16:02 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB24G19k002774 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:16:02 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:16:01 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312012316.01709.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hB24ER5J026150 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 December 2003 08:10 am, Ingrid G. Storrø wrote: > On Fri, 28 Nov 2003, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > You clearly know more Swedish than I do (since I "know" none, and am > > doing a lot of guessing based on words with similar forms in both > > languages and knowledge I've gleaned from other sources written in > > English). :-) > > My native language is Norwegian, which means that I can understand 99.9 > of what I read in Swedish, although I couldn't write it correctly to > save my life. :D The problem is translating between two languages which > are not my own; it all boils down to passive vs. active vocabulary I > guess, although it is much easier for me to write something from scratch > in English than to translate things. I don't think I botched it too > badly though. :) I don't mind. You still understand more than I do, so I'm not in a position to complain if the grammar is less than perfect. :-) Thanks again. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 23:18:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB24IX74007146 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:18:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24HdTQ010218; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:17:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24Hb5I028056; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:17:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24HW5I027979 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:17:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ap-014scfairp0369.dialsprint.net ([63.183.137.115] helo=faucet.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AR1yd-0001h6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:17:31 -0800 Message-ID: <3FCC2015.6050007@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:16:05 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support--the Latin References: <3FCBF161.8090605@faucet.net> <3FCC0656.1D613F79@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's the Latin version of the bust-binding reference: ad mulierum te studia mitto, quae corporei decoris et cultus et operam gerunt, et assecutae sunt artem. Quid enim magis affectant in ornatum pectoris, quam ne mammae superexcrescant, et deformiter finitent, ... Ideo excrescentes et fluitantes fasciis pectoralius stringunt, naturae vitio arte medentes. I'd be interested to know if anyone comes up with a translation dramatically different from that in the article. Enjoy! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume http://www.coastal.edu/theater _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 23:20:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB24Kt74007166 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:20:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24KBTQ010533; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:20:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24K95I029503; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:20:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24K65J029473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:20:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB24LfUZ002830 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:21:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB24LfdC002828 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:21:41 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:21:40 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031129.230220.-339267.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> <200311302358.17463.cathy@thyrsus.com> <1070289295.3fcb518fa70ae@webmail.soton.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <1070289295.3fcb518fa70ae@webmail.soton.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312012321.40774.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO [snip] > > *Were the same rare pigments used on minatures also used in early oil > > paintings? > > there's a good account of the differences between minitaurists and > portraitists' use of pigments, and the way the resulting work was valued, > in a chapter of Renaissance Clothing and the materials of memory, by Jones > and Stallybrass, Cambridge University Press, 2000. Argh. Yet another reason to want that book.... -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 23:24:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB24Oj74007199 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:24:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24NTTQ010855; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:23:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24NS5I001844; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:23:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24NQ5I001778 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:23:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.158.28ca7f68 (18707) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:23:19 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <158.28ca7f68.2cfd6db7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:23:19 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/1/2003 10:10:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes: sue, who wants to quilt herself an 18th c. petticoat one of these days, if she can find the right fabric (glazed wool, anyone???) You can also use silk--much easier to find. You could probably find a suitable wool from Scalamandre, though, if you were willing to pay the price. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 23:27:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB24RI74007209 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:27:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24PNTQ011049; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:25:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24PM5I002924; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:25:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24PJ5J002905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:25:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB24QsUZ002862 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:26:54 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB24QsPe002860 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:26:54 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:26:54 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FCB59A8.21174.4E35118@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FCB59A8.21174.4E35118@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312012326.54154.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 December 2003 06:09 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > As somebody who has never worn a bra in my life, I'm of the > > unsupported opinion that bust flop down more when the spend more time > > supported. I've had 3 kids, breastfed for at total of 4 years or so > > and although there is so sag these days for 41 years old, they still > > hold their own and don't agrivate by bouncing overmuch :) > > I'm with you! I rarely wore a bra, mostly because I couldn't find > ones that fit around my ribcage (I'm at my largest I've ever been and > still only need a size 32" band size. Most of my life I was more like > a 28". They rarely make bras smaller than 34" except for training > bras and expensive specialty ones.) Used to be true, maybe, but is true no longer. I started out post-adolescence as a 34A. Then, about 5 years ago, I lost a fair amount of weight and went down as a result to a 32A. I can find bras in ordinary stores in 32A; Victoria's Secret also carries them. (I'm wearing a VS model as I type this, in fact). It's just a bit harder to find them because stores stock fewer bras in small sizes.... By the way, my breasts have never drooped, either at 34 or 32 A. > > However, I noticed (while watching Starship Troopers when it first > came to the movie theatres) that most 24 year olds had far more droop > than I did at more than double that age. I'm within a few months of > 50, with a DD cup size and I droop very little. You are to be commended. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 23:29:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB24TA74007214 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:29:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24R9TQ011174; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:27:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24R85I004002; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:27:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24R65J003978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:27:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB24SfUZ002882 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:28:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB24Sf8P002880 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:28:41 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:28:40 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200312012053.hB1Kr7P21434@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200312012053.hB1Kr7P21434@gw.retro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312012328.40860.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 December 2003 03:53 pm, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > One possible correction: [Ingrid translated] > >Necklaces > >Women often wore pearl necklaces when buried. When the body was > >cremated, the necklaces were in many cases added afterwards, and are > >undisturbed today. The strand of pearls shown below also has a cross > >attatched. We don't know today whether this actually means that she was > >a Christian, or that she believed in both pagan and Christian gods, or > >if someone else put it there after she died. (It sounds here as if the > >reconstruction is closely based on an actual find, but they don't > >include any references unfortunately.) According to current research > >ther is much to suggest that many people were "both" pagan and > >Christian, and that this was accepted because the views on "belonging > >to" a religion were perhaps less dogmatic than today. [Lee wrote] > The photo shows millefiore glass beads. I'd suggest that the translation > here is _bead_ necklace. In english, pearls are the semiprecious gems > found in oysters' shells. In a lot of European languages, "perle" or similarly spelled words denote "bead." I had forgotten that until you raised this point. Thanks. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 23:33:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB24Xm74007244 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:33:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24VrTQ011521; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:31:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24Vp5I006582; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:31:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24Vm5J006540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:31:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB24XMUZ002945 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:33:22 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB24XMBw002943 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:33:22 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] swim wear Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:33:22 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <1cd.1528344a.2cfd09c6@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1cd.1528344a.2cfd09c6@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312012333.22430.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 December 2003 04:16 pm, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > As to period swimwear, I made a bathing dress based on the one Mount Vernon > has that belonged to Martha Washington. It is linen with cut similar to a > chemise, and weights in the hem. Mine is a blue and white printed linen > (wish I had bought more of that fabric when I saw it!). There was an > article in "Costume," the Journal of the Costume Society, on bathing dress > at Bath. Bathers there seem to have worn natural linen smocks or > chemise-like garments. I just bought some natural linen to make one. > This wasn't swimming, though. I'm not sure if women ever really swam, or > just bathed. Wow. I didn't know that there was any kind of specialized "bathing dress", even the loose linen kind, in Martha's day. Thanks for the info! -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 23:36:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB24a674007250 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:36:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24YATQ011747; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:34:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24Y95I008154; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:34:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24Y55J008124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:34:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB24ZeUZ002973 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:35:40 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB24ZeLW002971 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:35:40 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Master and Commander costumes Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:35:39 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <4.3.1.2.20031201104228.058a9e20@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20031201133728.05a81f00@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031201133728.05a81f00@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312012335.39956.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 December 2003 04:39 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > You wouldn't have to have read the novels. The film gives the year as 1805 > at the very beginning. In fact, a couple of the novels were ransacked for > parts for this film. But that's OK - it's a good film. My husband, who loves reading about the Age of Fighting Sail and owns all the Patrick O'Brian novels, said they took bits out of about 6 of them for "Master and Commander". But he loved the movie anyway. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 1 23:56:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB24uJ74007348 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:56:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24thTQ013714; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:55:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24tgmG021019; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:55:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB24tdmG020965 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:55:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02485425CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:02:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FCC1CC9.2000806@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:02:01 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Master and Commander costumes References: <4.3.1.2.20031201104228.058a9e20@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20031201133728.05a81f00@mail.frys.com> <200312012335.39956.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200312012335.39956.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Monday 01 December 2003 04:39 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >>You wouldn't have to have read the novels. The film gives the year as 1805 >>at the very beginning. In fact, a couple of the novels were ransacked for >>parts for this film. But that's OK - it's a good film. > > > My husband, who loves reading about the Age of Fighting Sail and owns all the > Patrick O'Brian novels, said they took bits out of about 6 of them for > "Master and Commander". But he loved the movie anyway. :-) > > Speaking of naval novels, movies and costumes, there are two new episodes of Horatio Hornblower that are out, one of which airs Tuesday evening, so check your listings for A&E channel. I understand there is a trailer here: http://www.aetv.com/tv/shows/horatio_hornblower/ Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 00:07:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB257Z74007376 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:07:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB255fTQ014455; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:05:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB255emG026685; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:05:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB255amH026617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:05:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB2579UZ003396 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:07:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB2579hL003394 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:07:09 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:07:09 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200312010804.hB1843R17267@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200312010804.hB1843R17267@gw.retro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312020007.09110.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 December 2003 03:04 am, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > If you mean the color being worn by the woman in this picture: > > > > http://polaris.umuc.edu/~jthies/Tanya.gif > > > > That's not what I'm talking about here (I hate that particular > > dark-greenish teal, by the way, and the related brighter color that was > > so darn popular during the 1990s). > > > > I mean the "teal blue" color that Michaela's "Anne of Cleves" dress is: > > > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/cleves.htm > > > > To me, the "Anne of Cleves" dress is not a teal at all, but more of a > > turquoise blue--but this discussion started out referring to it as teal > > blue, and I was trying to stay consistent. :-) > > This might be a difference in monitors. I don't see a great deal of > difference between the dress colors in those two photos. I take it you mean, "other than that the "Tanya.gif" is darker than Michaela's dress." I appreciate that (particularly since the "Tanya.gif" is too dark; I couldn't find the page with the photo that really shows the "teal" color I meant. Let me try again. Nope, still no luck... >The only place I > see anything resembling turquoise blue is the one shot on Michaela's page > that's labeled as FabricTest2. In that shot, it looks to me like the flash > has caught the sheen of the velvet and has overexposed the frame, making > the color look much lighter than it would otherwise. All the other photos, > including ones that look like they were taken in natural light, are darker > and have a more greenish cast. > (real turquoise of decent quality is _not_ greenish) I'm familiar with the varieties of turquoise. I know it ranges from quite greenish to very blue. That's part of my point. I don't see the color of Michaela's "Anne of Cleves" dress as greenish at all. I see it as a true turquoise blue. (Of course, independently of the monitor issue, that may simply be a quirk in my perception. My husband and I have fought more than once because what I call "aqua" he sees as a light green.) :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 00:09:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB259s74007384 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:09:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2586TQ014646; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2585mG028041; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:08:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2581mH028005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB259aUZ003415 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:09:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB259aa8003413 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:09:36 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:09:35 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200312010804.hB1843R17267@gw.retro.com> <003201c3b7fb$305818a0$e0cdadcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <003201c3b7fb$305818a0$e0cdadcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312020009.35867.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 December 2003 06:06 am, michaela wrote: [snip] > > To be honest.. it's mostly right between the two shades... I have yet to > get a photo of it that really shows the real colour.. which is not terribly > chemically in colour if you get my meaning... It's not a pure jewel tone, In the sense that it's not a pure, primary color blue, no. > but it's not areally dusty (which a lot of people seem to think of as what > natural dyes are- not impuning anyone.. just the trend I've come across all > over the place;) ) I agree it's not a "dusty" shade. I don't think it's grayish at all. > It's not green, it's not blue.. though perhaps slightly more in the blue > tones. I think it's very clearly a blue, though it may well have a bit of green in the mix. (But then, people's mileage varies in color perception). > > Blues are a pain to convert to CMYK for printing.. I know many of my scans > for a magazine had to be played with a lot.. hmm.. maybe the dress is a bit > more in the cyan range... no that's too clear... I'm not sure if I need to > adjust my camera settings.. I might have them in CMYK not RGB... > > And of course actual light levels affects the colour greatly, not just on > camera either. Quite true. > > It looks nice with wood... unlike the blues and pinks of some plastic items > I have sitting next to the pouch hanging on the same bit of wood. > > I had misgivings about the colour at first too;) But I thought hang it.. > get the fabric document it later;) Pleased I did;) > > Oh the sleeves are lined in a shot fabric that is at least part silk. I > need to do a good few test to work out just how much though... another oh > thank heavens find in my storage box;) I still think it's beautiful. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 00:18:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB25Im74007443 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:18:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25GpTQ015292; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:16:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25GomG003246; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:16:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB25GkmG003151 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:16:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCoW+Y0/14BZ4LPh6P/YE6WQrNDD3V62ViA==">; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:16:15 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JGDCWCEK; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:16:15 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:14:42 -0600 Message-ID: <20031201.231443.-455619.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 14-17 From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] Desperately Seeking Fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For anyone who knows me, that's a funny statement. However, in spite of several dozen tubs of fabric in my garage, I don't have the one kind of fabric I need to finish a project. I am looking for a slightly rough cotton (either 45" or 60", I'm not fussy) with a white and either black, dark green, grey, or maroon stripe, preferably about an inch wide. It seems that stripes are not the current fashion because I've been looking for fabric of that description for several months and have not been able to find it. The fabric will make an underskirt for an American Colonial Middle-class outfit. I've considered other patterns of fabric (oh, did I mention I'd prefer it to be a woven stripe, but at this point I'll settle?), but nothing else meets my vision. I've been to JoAnn's, Hancock, and the local quilting shop, and there's nothing even close. I've surfed all the Web fabric stores I know (including Fabric.com which is normally great) and nada. Can anyone point me in the direction of about 4 yards of cotton with 1 inch stripes? I'd be eternally grateful. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 00:26:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB25QB74007575 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:26:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25OLTQ016067; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:24:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25OKmG007530; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:24:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25OHmG007450 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:24:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0624F90092; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:17:22 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A05E16D012E; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:17:18 -0600 Message-ID: <023601c3b894$5dcb9700$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031201.231443.-455619.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Desperately Seeking Fabric Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:23:05 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Karen, Have you tried upholstery shops? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 00:27:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB25Rx74007586 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:27:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25QATQ016210; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:26:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25Q9mG008525; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:26:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25Q6mH008498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:26:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB25RfUZ003755 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:27:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB25Rf6Z003753 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:27:41 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:27:40 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FCA6048.26971.115311E@localhost> <3FCB0032.17221.385DBFA@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FCB0032.17221.385DBFA@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312020027.41001.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 December 2003 11:47 am, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > If you mean the color being worn by the woman in this picture: > > > > http://polaris.umuc.edu/~jthies/Tanya.gif > > > > That's not what I'm talking about here (I hate that particular > > dark-greenish teal, by the way, and the related brighter color that > > was so darn popular during the 1990s). > > > > I mean the "teal blue" color that Michaela's "Anne of Cleves" dress > > is: > > > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/cleves.htm > > > > To me, the "Anne of Cleves" dress is not a teal at all, but more of a > > turquoise blue--but this discussion started out referring to it as > > teal blue, and I was trying to stay consistent. :-) > > Both of them can be made with using weld overdye of an indigo dyed > fabric. The balance depends on the depth of the color used for each > step and that was something that medieval and renaissance dyers were > quite capable of doing. Fair enough. Thank you. You've certainly given an answer to one of the questions I asked. (In any event, I've known for a while that natural dyes can produce a generous range of shades.) The other was were they really doing it. Still, it's progress. [snip] > Both the colors would have been in use as well. > > When I first started researching color about 18 years ago, teal, > peacock blue, dark turqoises and the like were ones I specifically > looked for. Initially I thought that they couldn't or wouldn't have > done it. The more I researched, the more I found that there was more > color variety (once you get to the renaissance especially) than I had > been repeatedly told. > > Actually, an experienced dyer could throughout the middle ages and > renaissance make any color they desired. With the exception of day-glo. :-) [snip] > The interesting thing happens when you start looking at inventories. > Ask any man what a color is (unless he is really into textiles) and > he'd just say "that's green". You could have many shades of reds, > greens, purples, etc, but the man who inventoried the estate would > probably just list the basic color. (The renaissance inventories such > as the Stowe seemed to have more female input. Perhaps that's because > Elizabeth's women were more involved in it than in previous times.) No doubt. In any event, it's tough to describe colors in words--even if you're trying, and I'm sure you're right when you say many of the inventories were prepared by people who didn't need to get more precise than "blue" or "green". It's all the more maddening when your pictorial evidence is limited and surviving garments are nonexistent. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 00:31:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB25VQ74007598 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:31:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25TWTQ016447; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:29:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25TVmG010406; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:29:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25TTmH010384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB25V4UZ003802 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:31:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB25V4D7003800 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:31:04 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Master and Commander costumes Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:31:03 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <4.3.1.2.20031201104228.058a9e20@mail.frys.com> <200312012335.39956.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FCC1CC9.2000806@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3FCC1CC9.2000806@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312020031.03686.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 02 December 2003 12:02 am, Dawn wrote: > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > On Monday 01 December 2003 04:39 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >>You wouldn't have to have read the novels. The film gives the year as > >> 1805 at the very beginning. In fact, a couple of the novels were > >> ransacked for parts for this film. But that's OK - it's a good film. > > > > My husband, who loves reading about the Age of Fighting Sail and owns all > > the Patrick O'Brian novels, said they took bits out of about 6 of them > > for "Master and Commander". But he loved the movie anyway. :-) > > Speaking of naval novels, movies and costumes, there are two new > episodes of Horatio Hornblower that are out, one of which airs Tuesday > evening, so check your listings for A&E channel. We have friends who have a boxed set of 6 Horatio Hornblower DVDs, which we're going to watch with them. Don't know if it's the same A&E series or not, but they're good... :-) Thanks for the tip. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 00:33:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB25XP74007607 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:33:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25VaTQ016604; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:31:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25VZmG011700; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:31:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25VWmH011666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:31:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB25X6UZ003841 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:33:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB25X6mF003839 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:33:06 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Desperately Seeking Fabric Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:33:05 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031201.231443.-455619.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20031201.231443.-455619.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312020033.05854.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's some linen with woven stripes on fabrics-store.com right now, though none of the stripes quite match what you describe. You may want to take a look anyway, though. On Tuesday 02 December 2003 12:14 am, seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > For anyone who knows me, that's a funny statement. However, in spite of > several dozen tubs of fabric in my garage, I don't have the one kind of > fabric I need to finish a project. I am looking for a slightly rough > cotton (either 45" or 60", I'm not fussy) with a white and either black, > dark green, grey, or maroon stripe, preferably about an inch wide. It > seems that stripes are not the current fashion because I've been looking > for fabric of that description for several months and have not been able > to find it. The fabric will make an underskirt for an American Colonial > Middle-class outfit. I've considered other patterns of fabric (oh, did I > mention I'd prefer it to be a woven stripe, but at this point I'll > settle?), but nothing else meets my vision. I've been to JoAnn's, > Hancock, and the local quilting shop, and there's nothing even close. > I've surfed all the Web fabric stores I know (including Fabric.com which > is normally great) and nada. Can anyone point me in the direction of > about 4 yards of cotton with 1 inch stripes? I'd be eternally grateful. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 00:43:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB25hS74007685 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:43:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25gpTQ017358; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:42:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25gnmG017970; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:42:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25gkmG017940 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:42:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip125.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.125]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F7C86A538 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:42:44 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:42:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3FCBB5DC.16510.64B7A16@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3FCB59A8.21174.4E35118@localhost> In-reply-to: <200312012326.54154.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [h-cost] Bust support, was re: 12th c. bust support X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I started out post-adolescence as a 34A. Then, about 5 years ago, I > lost a fair amount of weight and went down as a result to a 32A. > > I can find bras in ordinary stores in 32A; Victoria's Secret also > carries them. (I'm wearing a VS model as I type this, in fact). It's > just a bit harder to find them because stores stock fewer bras in > small sizes.... But the A cup is still fairly small. The 28s and 30s are still nonexistant (just like the G cup bras.)You can usually find As, Bs and Cs nowadays (mostly at Nordstroms and Victoria Secret) but finding the Ds and DDs is still *very* difficult. (Especially the DDs. Forget anything larger.) And they are usually in the more ugly (to me) styles (like the ones with really heavy, scratchy stretch lace on the sides. Ugh.) If I'm lucky they have one in my size (either because they didn't get more in than that or because they've already sold it to someone else.) And finding them in other stores is still pretty impossible. Frankly, both my 18th C and my several 16th C corsets are far more comfortable. They just give one a very odd line in modern clothes. ;) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 00:43:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB25he74007688 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:43:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25h3TQ017374; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25h2mG018089; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25glmG017951 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:42:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip125.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.125]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A2176AAE0 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:42:46 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:42:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question Message-ID: <3FCBB5DC.21215.64B7B1F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FCC003A.B43AC399@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Yeah, but aren't they all cut on the bias? I don't know of any sleeves > from that time that are cut on the bias. Plus, it seems awfully > wasteful.... --sue's 2 pence worth You'd be surprised at how much during the 16th and 17th C was cut on the bias. Sometimes they cut whole outfits on the bias. For example, In Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620 on page 5, which shows Burguen's f.146. What I've found is that the Tudor turnback sleeve actually fits the fabric better on the bias. It has a lot of fabric to begin with and can be quite wide. They require a lot less piecing when they are cut on the bias. Besides, in the 16th C they were much less concerned with conserving fabric than they were in the much earlier time periods. Look at the volume of fabric that even goes into a 15th C outfit. Then watch to see how the same amount goes into some of the 16th C ones, just with more tailored pieces. (It's times like this that one wishes for a way to see how they really did it in period!) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 00:57:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB25vk74007745 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:57:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25v9TQ018341; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:57:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25v8kh025517; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:57:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB25v6kh025495 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip125.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.125]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA22F6F843 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:57:04 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:57:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) Message-ID: <3FCBB939.9603.6589F80@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3FCB0032.17221.385DBFA@localhost> In-reply-to: <200312020027.41001.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In any event, it's tough to describe colors in words--even if you're > trying, and I'm sure you're right when you say many of the inventories > were prepared by people who didn't need to get more precise than > "blue" or "green". It's all the more maddening when your pictorial > evidence is limited and surviving garments are nonexistent. Frankly, most extant garments are pretty worthless for telling what color they were. Most are either "grave stained" or "ground stained." They are pretty much "brown". If we are lucky a dye analysis will show if madder or woad/indigo were used, and sometimes if we are very lucky, weld. However, dyes can be leached away, fade away over time or be chemically changed so that they do not test as being dyed. I think that's why it's so important to use as many sources as you can. Look not just at portrait, not just at extant garments, not just at inventories/wills/laws/etc but in addition to all of those also look at tapestries (even if they aren't showing any costumes) to see what colors were available. It really takes looking at every single bit of information available to really get a better picture of what was. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 01:05:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB265474007796 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:05:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB264QTQ018942; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:04:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB264Pkh029535; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:04:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav126.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.156]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB264Mkh029461 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:04:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:04:17 -0800 Received: from 67.112.42.3 by bay4-dav126.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 06:04:17 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [67.112.42.3] X-Originating-Email: [ysandra8@msn.com] X-Sender: ysandra8@msn.com From: "ysandra sliverneedle" To: References: <200312020358.hB23wO5K017291@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:04:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:04:17 -0800 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Dec 2003 06:04:17.0231 (UTC) FILETIME=[1E7A45F0:01C3B89A] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Tudor dresses/cartridge pleats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hB265474007796 Status: RO A question about Tudor dresses (1540s about). I have a pattern that shows using a gores using 4 gores for the skirt pattern. The question is when did cartridge pleating come into being? Could I cartridge pleat the skirt to have a fuller skirt and then attach the bodice? Were the skirts supported by any type of hoops in the 1540s and were bumrolls used? Still trying to figure just how to put this all together. Many thanks Ysandra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 01:15:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB26FL74007828 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:15:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26EkTQ019746; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:14:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26Egkh005168; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:14:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26EUki004989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:14:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB26G4UZ003999 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:16:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB26G4W8003997 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:16:04 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bust support, was re: 12th c. bust support Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:16:04 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FCB59A8.21174.4E35118@localhost> <3FCBB5DC.16510.64B7A16@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FCBB5DC.16510.64B7A16@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312020116.04096.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 02 December 2003 12:42 am, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > I started out post-adolescence as a 34A. Then, about 5 years ago, I > > lost a fair amount of weight and went down as a result to a 32A. > > > > I can find bras in ordinary stores in 32A; Victoria's Secret also > > carries them. (I'm wearing a VS model as I type this, in fact). It's > > just a bit harder to find them because stores stock fewer bras in > > small sizes.... > > But the A cup is still fairly small. No argument there. I was just pointing out that it's a small size that is fairly widely available. :-) >The 28s and 30s are still > nonexistant (just like the G cup bras.)You can usually find As, Bs > and Cs nowadays (mostly at Nordstroms and Victoria Secret) but > finding the Ds and DDs is still *very* difficult. (Especially the > DDs. Forget anything larger.) And they are usually in the more ugly > (to me) styles (like the ones with really heavy, scratchy stretch > lace on the sides. Ugh.) Sympathy. I've seen some of the bras they make in size DD and the like, and you're right. > If I'm lucky they have one in my size > (either because they didn't get more in than that or because they've > already sold it to someone else.) And finding them in other stores is > still pretty impossible. > > Frankly, both my 18th C and my several 16th C corsets are far more > comfortable. I bet they're more supportive, too. You're making me glad that the modesty of my personal endowment has meant that support has never been an issue for me (except in tae kwon do class, but a standard model spandex sports top was always quite sufficient). :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 01:17:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB26H774007831 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:17:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26GXTQ020056; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:16:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26GWkh006172; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:16:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26GUkh006149 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:16:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-100-130.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.100.130]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BIF89346; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:16:27 GMT Message-ID: <04a901c3b89c$aca354a0$427b4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FCB59A8.21174.4E35118@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:22:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >However, I don't believe that one the average women in the 12th C were as weighty as present day American women. If by build you mean excess fat I'd agree, but to me in English build is skeletal, so perhaps a lingustic mix up there ? >I've seen all the statistics and while they might have been more muscular, I sincerely doubt they would have had as much adipose. What this boils down to is that they probably were smaller busted. (Think athletic women who seem to be fried eggs unless they've had implants, as opposed to the average American woman.) But think of the evolutionary evidence for big busts. It is clear lots of boob is not necessary for feeding children, but it has been sexually selected for 100s of thousands of years (Stone age statues etc etc) Excessivly Athletic women in modern terms tend not to menstruate either (so I'm told), which is not a desirable evolutionary trait. Most horse and agricultural workers (in the UK) I know are very physically fir and well muscled, but have average to large boobs not bee stings :) A generalisation I know ! Fat build up tends not to be related to excersise which is why it is so hard to get a fashion figure. A book Fats of life is a good read on this Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 01:20:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB26KW74007846 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:20:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26JvTQ020327; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:19:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26Jtkh008294; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:19:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB26Jrkh008268 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:19:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031202061953.73481.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.251.232] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:19:53 PST Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:19:53 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow! Looks like Heather holds the record for having on hand the oldest unfinished project:) And I now don't feel quite as embarrassed as before:) thanks for sharing-- Albra Heather Rose Jones wrote: At 4:09 PM -0500 12/1/03, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/1/2003 11:52:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, >albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: >I am just now finishing something( a piece of metal thread embroidery ) that >I started 17 years ago(blush) .Anyone else have anything older? >Do I count my pitiful handful of quilt squares that I made, oh, about 35 >years ago and have never turned into anything? I keep thinking I >will design a >square dance skirt around them--I'm certainly never going to make a >whole quilt! Just the other day, I pulled out the box with an unfinished needlepoint project I started in college ... which would make it over 25 years ago. And I still have the patchwork quilt top that I started in high school, which _may_ put it back 30 years. But I could cheat and note that some day I plan to finish the pulled-thread edgings on a set of placemats that my mother started when _she_ was in college, which gets us back to ... hmm ... roughly 50 years ago. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 01:35:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB26ZQ74007946 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:35:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26YpTQ021195; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:34:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26Yokh015272; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:34:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26Ymkh015251 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:34:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-100-130.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.100.130]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BIF91756; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:34:45 GMT Message-ID: <04bd01c3b89f$39d55920$427b4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:40:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Let me rephrase, then. I was trying to be delicate. I was not referring to height or musculature. I was referring to fat. I have now grasped that, obviously I'm more of a spade a spade person :) If I mean fat I say it ;) > And body fat content does have an influence on bust size. To some extent but not nearly as much as genetic disposition. Humans have a very odd fat storage system and ability to be much fatter than other animals without many harmful effects... >In my experience, a noticeably large proportion of today's historical costumers and re-enactors are of noticeably large proportions. True (then again the population at large is fatter, blame the processed foods and saturated fats) >. Yes, there were fat people in period, but I gather not to the quantity and degree that we see today. Agreed except perhaps monks who didn't wear the same frocks ! >and the degree of overweight was quite unlikely to be as extreme as often as it is today. all agreed >I don't know if the skeletons bear this out. Hard to say on the fat except that the muscular indication would not match the artwork siloettes IMHO, the artwork is I think too styilised or too upper class perhaps ? Mostly our skellies are average folk not nobs so I've not as yet been able to make comparissons, but hopefully I will in the future >I do know that extant garments How many extant 12C female garments are there ? Most if not all I'd guess are fairly high status and cannot possibily match the number of skellies avaliable for any given period due to their less durable nature. >and artwork do. And even if the artwork tends to favor attractive people, Or make attractive unattractive people :) >how do you achieve the perky bosom seen in 12th century depictions. The question as I read it was "what sort of > underwear existed for women in the 12th century?" ie how did they achieve the body shape not how does a modern person emulate the body shape >It's true that we don't know if the art is representative of the population overall. I'd bet not, I can't think of any era that it did, even working class interpretation (eg Lowry) cannot be taken as reaslistic >Maybe there were a whole lot of fat people around who weren't being pictured. There is some skeletal evidence of over eating, this tends to be in religious contexts (or at least that is what is written up), most written about are monks and their gout. I've not come across anything on Nuns and their fat as yet. Men & women fatten quite differently and women would carry a fair amount of fat as they are hard wired to try to do so if at all possible (ie if they are not starving) Which is one reason for over indulgance evolution has not yet given humans on off switch when enough fat has been eaten. Which in evolutionary terms suggest, getting enough fat is important and desirable. Fat previously in many social situation was desirable as a wealth indicator >Which brings us back to the same answer: to achieve the perky bosom seen in 12th century depictions or any other characteristic of a silhouette seen in period art, part of the requirement may be to start with a body type similar to the people in the depictions you're trying to replicate. If of course you accept that the perky boobs were not part of the artisic ideal :) but were a reality. Hopefully I'll get to know more on the boob situation once I get started on the childbearing research Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 01:36:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB26aZ74007951 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:36:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26a1TQ021282; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26a1kh015969; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26Zwkh015939 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:35:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-100-130.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.100.130]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BIF91889; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:35:57 GMT Message-ID: <04d001c3b89f$64aee440$427b4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <120220030143.9612.3017@att.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:42:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Perhaps he was a bad monk? Most monks seemed to be pretty bad, heaps of cases of them getting nuns pregnant etc etc :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 01:49:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB26no74007997 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:49:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26m0TQ022224; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26lxkh022667; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:47:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB26lvkh022611 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:47:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from 0020830266 (12-248-149-36.client.attbi.com[12.248.149.36]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <200312020647331130043ba2e> (Authid: ladysarafina@att.net); Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:47:44 +0000 Message-ID: <003501c3b8a0$1a0ddc60$2495f80c@attbi.com> From: "Sarafina Sinclair" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FCB3DD8.15691.476AB8F@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:46:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1123 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1123 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question > I don't know where you saw it was on the straight. It's very clearly > on the bias according to the grid behind it. Unless you are talking > about sleeves other than the ones on page 53. I apologize for not saying what I mean more clearly. It appears to me that Hunnisett took a modern sleeve shape and rotated the grain to the bias. The seams are still mostly straight (ie parallel to the selvedge if cut on the straight grain). In the introduction on page 6, Hunnisett says "It is not a history of costume as that subject is covered by other people who are far more learned than I. The dating is not precise but is accurate enough for general use in the theatre. Anyone making re-creations should consult other forms of reference, original sources or museum textile departments." What she has presented is theory and and designed for looking good on the stage. My theory of the sleeve construction is just as theoretical as Hunnisett's because in the end, we are both working largely from portraits. The evidence that I present is a couple of portraits and the actual constructing of the sleeve cut both ways. The clothing of this century is very fascinating to me and I am trying very hard to discern as much as I can about construction from the portrait evidence. When you look at the pattern on page 53, the entire sleeve is cut with the grain on the bias. I believe that this is a modern solution for conserving fabric (because the bias cut sleeve will fit on 45" wide fabric whereas the straight grain cut will not). Also, when one cuts the top part of the sleeve out on the bias with a modern shape, one can compensate for not having a more modern sleeve shape at the top. If you look at this portrait of Jane Seymour, you can see that the grain of her lining of the outer sleeve lies on the straight grain. http://www.marileecody.com/seymour1.jpg . Also, if you find a copy of the whitehall portrait which was painted after Jane's death, the grain of the ermine lining is on the straight also. Alot of the linings for this type of sleeve were fur (at least in the surviving portraiture) and the joins in the fabric are easily hidden by a skilled furrier. This makes hide width unimportant because the furrier would create whatever size piece was needed. Other linings appear to made from velvet. I cannot explain why joins in velvet would not be portrayed other than to say that perhaps the artists left them out. I cut two sleeves out with the same shape; one with the grain on the bias and one with the grain on the straight. I did not use Hunnisett's pattern for the top of the sleeve. I adjusted the shape to one used in period. [That is to say that the grain of the sleeve is on the straight. The seams are diagonal. I put the seam on the back of the arm like in a modern suit jacket, rather than under the arm against the body in a typical button up modern shirt.] The one that I cut on the straight hangs very nicely and looks like the portraits. The one cut on the bias also looked nice, but not quite the same as the portraits. Sarafina -------------------------------------------------------- The Honourable Lady Sarafina Sinclair, CE, CW, APF http://ladysarafina.home.att.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 02:05:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB275274009640 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 02:05:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB274QTQ023253; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:04:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB274Ome000884; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:04:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB274Lme000802 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:04:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.96.201.18]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031202070415.PJZK19895.lakemtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 02:04:15 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Desperately Seeking Fabric Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 02:03:52 -0500 Message-ID: <002701c3b8a2$750265d0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <20031201.231443.-455619.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hB274Lme000802 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Karen- Carolina Calicoes has this in blue/white and green/white, only the stripe is 1/2" not a full inch. http://www.carolinacalicos.com/ (Look under 'cotton') Class Act has a natural/cream linen stripe, again is 1/2". http://www.classactfabrics.com/linen/linen_fabric.htm (Go all the way to the bottom of the linen page) This one is totally not your color choices, but I find it interesting nonetheless: http://www.fashionfabricsonline.com/home/catalog_itemdetail.cfm?ItmID=I883 Depending on the rest of the outfit it could look great. HTH- ::Linda:: You can't always judge by appearances: the early bird may have been up all night. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of seamstrix@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:15 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Desperately Seeking Fabric For anyone who knows me, that's a funny statement. However, in spite of several dozen tubs of fabric in my garage, I don't have the one kind of fabric I need to finish a project. I am looking for a slightly rough cotton (either 45" or 60", I'm not fussy) with a white and either black, dark green, grey, or maroon stripe, preferably about an inch wide. It seems that stripes are not the current fashion because I've been looking for fabric of that description for several months and have not been able to find it. The fabric will make an underskirt for an American Colonial Middle-class outfit. I've considered other patterns of fabric (oh, did I mention I'd prefer it to be a woven stripe, but at this point I'll settle?), but nothing else meets my vision. I've been to JoAnn's, Hancock, and the local quilting shop, and there's nothing even close. I've surfed all the Web fabric stores I know (including Fabric.com which is normally great) and nada. Can anyone point me in the direction of about 4 yards of cotton with 1 inch stripes? I'd be eternally grateful. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 02:47:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB27lS74025224 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 02:47:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB27knTQ026186; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB27kjme023170; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:46:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB27keme023072 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:46:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.4b.37533cac (16109) for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 02:46:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d14.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.130]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v97.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed3fcc435731d; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 02:46:31 -0500 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 02:46:31 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Master and Commander costumes MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <30341C73.29014C18.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/2/2003 12:02:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > Speaking of naval novels, movies and costumes, there are two new > episodes of Horatio Hornblower that are out, one of which > airs Tuesday > evening, so check your listings for A&E channel. Wow, Ioan Gruffudd's been a busy guy! Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 03:43:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB28ht74011431 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 03:43:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB28hITQ029047; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:43:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB28hGwk019774; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:43:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.76]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB28hDwk019760 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:43:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from chris (dialup-a1-454.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.247.200]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id B4F79D9F93 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:44:42 +1100 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:45:29 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <007c01c3b86e$a3e14a30$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A plinth? -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 04:49:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB29mx74000587 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 04:48:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB29mJTQ003246; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 02:48:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB29mH1s020755; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 02:48:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB29mF1s020709 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 02:48:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9DA41A039E for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:48:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FCC6129.40904@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:53:45 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pleated berhte 1845 dress References: <136.27e3c161.2cfd12db@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm sorry.....all this time I thought you were doing an 1840's gown. It is getting a bit of a mixture. I didn't like the 1839-45 gown from Janet Arnold 1 But I like the gown of 1861 from Janet Arnold 2 Since I need a bit of a pattern to work from I thought that this one looks closer to the dres I like. http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/boehn/mariebourbon1845.JPG And she drawed a picture from the inside where I can see the construction. That helpes a lot to someone who never done this period and only have these two books and the pictures that I could find on the internet. I was thinking of making the waistline strait at the back and sow the skirt on in cartridge pleats. But I could make it as a 1861 gown since that is also Dickens. But then I would have to make the right hoopskirt ore use my 16th century one and make it look more like 1860... I'll think I see what happens just one stap at a time.... Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 07:34:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2CY374017911 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:34:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2CXLTQ013133; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 05:33:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2CX7tT009451; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 05:33:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com ([12.178.72.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2CWwtT009370 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 05:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hB2CcEGI027387; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:38:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:38:11 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] Desperately Seeking Fabric To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031201.231443.-455619.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hiya Karen, You might try Osgood's (www.osgoodtextile.com) in Springfield, MA. You have to email them your request, but as I"ve been in their store, I can say that if your fabric exists, they'd have it. Kate On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > For anyone who knows me, that's a funny statement. However, in spite of > several dozen tubs of fabric in my garage, I don't have the one kind of > fabric I need to finish a project. I am looking for a slightly rough > cotton (either 45" or 60", I'm not fussy) with a white and either black, > dark green, grey, or maroon stripe, preferably about an inch wide. It > seems that stripes are not the current fashion because I've been looking > for fabric of that description for several months and have not been able > to find it. The fabric will make an underskirt for an American Colonial > Middle-class outfit. I've considered other patterns of fabric (oh, did I > mention I'd prefer it to be a woven stripe, but at this point I'll > settle?), but nothing else meets my vision. I've been to JoAnn's, > Hancock, and the local quilting shop, and there's nothing even close. > I've surfed all the Web fabric stores I know (including Fabric.com which > is normally great) and nada. Can anyone point me in the direction of > about 4 yards of cotton with 1 inch stripes? I'd be eternally grateful. > > > > Karen > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 07:52:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2CqW74017958 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:52:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2CoeTQ014587; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 05:50:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2CodtT019517; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 05:50:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com ([12.178.72.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2CoatT019491 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 05:50:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hB2CuUT2029382; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:56:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:56:21 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <04bd01c3b89f$39d55920$427b4ed5@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh. My. Goodness. I had no idea that my question would spark such a discussion! But then, I"m still new to costuming and costume lists... Yes, my original question revolved more around the historical aspects than how to stuff a modern figure into a 12th cent. dress and make it look historically accurate. I am a larger busted woman (not fat anymore, thank goodness, I'm actually smaller 'upstairs' than I used to be!) and have always drooped. I developed a bust in, oh, about 6 months and didn't get a bra until I was a b cup. Results: stretch marks (from 14 years of age) and droop galore. Now I'm 36DDD Naturally, I tend to assume that that would be normal for anyone else who developed like me. And also lends quite a lot to my interest in bust support throughout the ages. (My corset collection is growing...) I do realise that the shape of women has changed (probably) due to lifestyle etc from the 12th century! And that women were naturally more muscular than nowadays becuase of having to do more physical labour. But, then there's the genetic thing. I have pictures of my great great grandmother, her husband, sisters, etc out on the farm ploughing the fields, cutting the hay with a scythe (she and her husband would have nothing to do with tractors and other 'modern' impliments!). And *she* was quite well endowed, as were her sisters. So, of course, I wonder about all those 12th century women who were also genetically well endowed... I did see something on the internet about women binding their breasts and thanks for all the other info! What did they bind them with? Obviously, ace bandages hadn't been invented yet. Once again, thanks for all the info! I'm sure I'll come up with more questions soon... Kate Ussailis ceu@shaysnet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 08:07:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2D7074017995 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:07:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2D6PTQ015438; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:06:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2D6O6p027632; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:06:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2D6L6p027603 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:06:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-98-117.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.98.117])3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id AOU38491; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:06:18 GMT Message-ID: <08ca01c3b8d5$1206db90$98614ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:06:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I developed a bust in, oh, about 6 months and didn't get a bra until I was a b cup. Results: stretch marks (from 14 years of age) and droop galore. Now I'm 36DDD Naturally, I tend to assume that that would be normal for anyone else who developed like me. Development in earlier periods tends to be slower, maturation and full adult height would appear to be reached much later than now. As I remember I was pretty quick developing, but didn't droop or get strech marks and I'm currently about 44 and was 38 at smallest ever adult bust >But, then there's the genetic thing. I have pictures of my great great grandmother, her husband, sisters, etc out on the farm ploughing the fields, cutting the hay with a scythe (she and her husband would have nothing to do with tractors and other 'modern' impliments!). And *she* was quite well endowed, as were her sisters. So, of course, I wonder about all those 12th century women who were also genetically well endowed Agreed and the better endowed were possibily more common than the less if sexual selection continued as previously. Again I would say that maybe they were just used to no restrictions, so many might not bind, after all restricted boobs are no use for feeding, which they would do for extended period (2 years or so) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 08:40:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2DeV74018062 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:40:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2DdmTQ017493; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:39:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Ddk6p014575; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:39:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx03.uni-tuebingen.de (mx03.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.3.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Ddg6q014528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:39:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mh073 (mh073.ub.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.65.73]) by mx03.uni-tuebingen.de (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hB2DdfaV029880 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:39:41 +0100 From: "Ulrike Mehringer" Organization: UB Tuebingen To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:39:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] German book on medieval dress and textiles Message-ID: <3FCCA42A.17979.186FFBA@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a, DE v4.02 R1) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir Milter 1.0.4; AVE 6.22.0.1; VDF 6.22.0.54 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, that it took so long: Mechthild Mueller: Die Kleidung nach Quellen des fruehen Mittelalters. Textilien und Mode von Karl dem Grossen bis Heinrich III. - Berlin ; New York : de Gruyter, 2003. - X, 337 S. : Ill. ISBN 3-11-017219-4 The author compares literary sources, pictural sources and results of archeological research for the period 800 - 1050, or tries to make these three things tally. There are 20 plates with about 4 pictures (but small) each at the end of the book. Many literary sources (primary and secondary); short, but interesting glossary of period latin textile terms; a wide range of themes is covered: garments of men, women, children, newborn, special occasions, tunikas, textile techniques, and most of all clerical and monks garments. All in all it's a research work and - in german. I think, it's really interesting, and I hope I'll find the time to read it. Hope this helps. Ulrike _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 08:41:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2Df674018065 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:41:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2DeBTQ017540; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:40:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2DeB6p014843; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:40:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Ddm6p014541 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:39:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a25.in-tch.com [66.62.107.5]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hB2DILV17361 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:18:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FCC96C1.9C3663AD@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 06:42:25 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering References: <158.28ca7f68.2cfd6db7@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, I'll go with silk if I can't find the wool (doesn't that sound funny? ), but I was really intrigued by the glazed wool in some of my books. It's definitely one of those "one of these years" projects! --sue AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/1/2003 10:10:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, > mooncat@in-tch.com writes: > sue, who wants to quilt herself an 18th c. petticoat one of these > days, if she can find the right fabric (glazed wool, anyone???) > You can also use silk--much easier to find. You could probably find a > suitable wool from Scalamandre, though, if you were willing to pay the price. > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 09:15:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2EFl74018143 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:15:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2EDvTQ020215; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:13:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2EDr9q003182; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:13:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2EDp9q003161 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:13:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hB2EDnTI004817 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:13:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031202090330.01902eb0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:13:53 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor dresses/cartridge pleats In-Reply-To: References: <200312020358.hB23wO5K017291@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey there... In short, yes some areas were cartridge pleating at this time, Notably some parts of Italy (Venice, Firenze, Florence, Sienna, etc. ) but not England. The aesthetic in clothing is very different. Now When you say Tudor I'm thinking England under Henry VIII. Is that correct? Under Mary there was a heavy influence of Spain on fashion in the court - thanks to Philip, but still no cartridge pleating on the skirt. So... for accuracy you want a smooth line at the waist flaring to the hem. Support for the skirts in England was by petticoat in the days of Henry and Edward. With the Spanish influence of Mary's court that is where the beginnings of the stiffened petticoat makes it's appearance... (I think) and then on to the farthingale with EI. The addition of the bumroll came with the elongation of the front of the stomacher under EI, to create the 'flat in front' followed by an arc of skirt illusion. If I have time I'll try to pull some images together... but I will recommend a stop at the National Portrait Gallery of England. Good luck. Bridgette >A question about Tudor dresses (1540s about). I have a pattern that shows >using a gores using 4 gores for the skirt pattern. The question is when >did cartridge pleating come into being? Could I cartridge pleat the skirt >to have a fuller skirt and then attach the bodice? >Were the skirts supported by any type of hoops in the 1540s and were >bumrolls used? Still trying to figure just how to put this all together. >Many thanks >Ysandra >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 09:22:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2EMG74018152 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:22:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2ELaTQ021194; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:21:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2ELZ9q007493; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:21:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2ELW9q007449 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:21:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hB2ENIA15146.; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:23:18 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:21:28 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:21:10 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ingrid replied to my post: > >> I thought about box-shaped, but wasn't sure if that made sense for the >> shape. Thanks for clearing that up! "likarmade" definitely means >> "having similar arms"; I guess I was looking for one word and came >>up short. :) and Lee replied: >They're talking about a cruciform shape, yes? Equal-armed cross is the >term I've seen used most often in english. Well, no, if you click on "likarmade" it brings up illustrations of clasps made of two halves in mirror-image. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 09:26:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2EQ074018170 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:26:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2EO5TQ021556; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:24:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2EO59q008840; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:24:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2EO29q008815 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ap-002scfairp0109.dialsprint.net ([63.184.200.109] helo=faucet.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ARBRZ-0004PU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 06:24:02 -0800 Message-ID: <3FCCAE3A.9050802@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:22:34 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Desperately Seeking Fabric References: <20031201.231443.-455619.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO (Waving at Karen from SC--Hi Karen!) Try http://www.designerfabrics.ca in their "Printed Stripes" section. I saw a couple of things that aren't exactly right, but that you might be willing to settle for if nothing else. And I didn't finish looking because there was so much. You might also call Mary Jo's in Gastonia, NC http://www.maryjosclothstore46.webyp.net/ They don't have a big web presence, but from what I hear, they have EVERYTHING. Then there's Ninety-Six District Storehouse (so called because it was originally in Ninety-Six, SC). They have a "re-enactor's room" that caters to SCA, Rev War, and Civil War folks, and they're very nice. 864-366-9600 Good luck! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume http://www.coastal.edu/theater _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 10:01:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2F1774018350 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:01:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2ExETQ024532; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:59:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2ExB5r003234; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:59:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Ex95r003201 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:59:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104036.uvm.edu [132.198.104.36]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Ex8g2026849 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:59:08 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCCA8BD.3030800@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:59:09 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Burgundian/ Fabrics/ Colours References: <20031201142842.65961.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031201142842.65961.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catalina Sanabria Rosado wrote: > My next project will probably be a foray into a type > of Burgundian. . . What are > your favorite online illustrations? Here are some: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th/ - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 10:19:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2FJj74018376 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:19:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2FIfTQ026192; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:18:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2FId5r017432; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:18:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2FIY5r017377 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:18:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104036.uvm.edu [132.198.104.36]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2FIYg2031662 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:18:34 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCCAD4A.8080801@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:18:34 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support References: <120220030143.9612.3017@att.net> <3FCBF0EB.3080304@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <3FCBF0EB.3080304@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > mmcnealy@att.net wrote: >> Thanks for the great text! ;) But I still want to know, How did a monk >> know what women wore underneath their gowns? >Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Maybe he had a sister. Or a wife. Although married monks were certainly much rarer than married priests and other clergy. Even Bishops were married, which caused some problems as feudalistic tendancies became the norm, that is, the tying of land and inheritance to service. There were many questions about whether the children of married clergy should or could inherit the offices and property originally granted to the Church, and several diatribes against wives who decked themselves infine clothes and jewels with funds from the Church's coffers. The legitimacy of clerical marriage became quite a battle in the 11th century under Gregory VII and was finally legislated against by the Second Lateran Council of 1139. Before that, clerical marriage may have been the norm. After that it was still not unheard of, though it bacame more rare. Interesting book on the subject: Barstow, Anne Llewellyn. Married Priests and the Reforming Papacy: The Eleventh - Century Debates. New York: The Edwin Mellen Press, 1982. - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 10:24:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2FOV74018385 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:24:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2FNkTQ026909; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:23:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2FNi5r021524; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:23:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2FNf5r021405 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:23:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.12f.3687485d (4246) for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:23:25 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <12f.3687485d.2cfe086d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:23:25 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pleated berhte 1845 dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/2/2003 4:49:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > But I like the gown of 1861 from Janet Arnold 2 > Fair enough. It does look like the illustration you like. I would "warn" you that details like the back point would not bee seen in 1840s...or the little "notch" at the top of the side back piece. And the sleeves are a bit poofy. In fact, the Winterhalter looks more 1860s than 1845 and I wondered about the accuracy of the date of the illustration. But I don't mean to discourage you in any way or put your project down. You seem to be having fun and you will of course be beautiful. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 11:07:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2G7974018490 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:07:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2G5CTQ001731; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:05:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2G59iu026604; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:05:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2G53iu026530 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:05:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id KAA26068 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:05:02 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "h-costume@indra. com" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:05:02 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] New Butterick Patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was at JoAnn's Saturday with the big 99 cent per pattern on Butterick and McCall's patterns and all Vogue $3.99 each. The new Spring Preview Butterick Pattern catalog was just out and I snagged three new "Making History" patterns. They are all supposed to be circa 1914 patterns. B4091 is a V-neck vest type "basque" blouse with four collar variations. B4092 is a narrow "basque" skirt with four variations, and B4093 is a tunic gown and girdle which can be a wedding or dressy dress. The girdle sits on the hips, rather than higher up, which I will alter as I plan to make this easy fitting ensemble for my niece's wedding and I'm short and long-waisted anyway, a low waist doesn't suit me. While I've seen plenty of fashion plates and illustrations from 1914 and some do have a low waist, especially from the Parisian fashion houses, there are more examples of waistlines variations from high to normal waist, more still tending to a raised waistline, although many fashions show sashes and design treatments swathing or focusing most of the torso from underbust to hips. Kudos to Butterrick for covering this short era of fashion. Also, for the guys, there is a circa 1914 smoking jacket. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 11:07:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2G7h74018494 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:07:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2G5mTQ001795; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:05:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2G5liu027222; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:05:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2G5iiu027111 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:05:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.58 ([204.127.135.58]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2003120216053811200hg744e>; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:05:38 +0000 Received: from [162.130.1.254] by 204.127.135.58; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:05:38 +0000 From: ladysarafina@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor dresses/cartridge pleats Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:05:38 +0000 Message-Id: <120220031605.27240.6833@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: aHN3YXNoaW5ndG9uQGF0dC5uZXQ= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bridgette wrote: > So... for accuracy you want a smooth line at the waist flaring to the > hem. Support for the skirts in England was by petticoat in the days of > Henry and Edward. With the Spanish influence of Mary's court that is where > the beginnings of the stiffened petticoat makes it's appearance... (I > think) and then on to the farthingale with EI. The addition of the > bumroll came with the elongation of the front of the stomacher under > EI, to create the 'flat in front' followed by an arc of skirt illusion. I posit that what happens later in period is that the french farthingale is introduced (which is not the same as a bumroll). Ashelford talks about half [french] farthingales in her Visual History of 16th Century costume book. QEWU also talk about rolles of cotton in the french gowns and later about the French farthingales that had to be continually altered to keep up with the changing times. I don't believe that the spanish farthingale was ever worn with a french farthingale. Just had a thought. I wonder if the half farthingale is the same shape as the bumrolls we wear today. That would explain alot and clear up that big debate. I don't remember a description of the shape of the half [french] farthingale being discussed in QEWU unfortunately. I'll look again when I get home unless someone else has access to the book sooner and can answer the question. Sarafina -------------------------------------------------- The Honourable Lady Sarafina Sinclair, CE, CW, APF http://ladysarafina.home.att.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 11:57:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2GvW74018654 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:57:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2GtSTQ007671; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:55:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2GtNeE012937; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:55:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2GtIeE012803 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:55:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EA6319FB67 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:55:12 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FCCC540.50704@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:00:48 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pleated berhte 1845 dress References: <12f.3687485d.2cfe086d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does a 1860 gown always has a point at the back waist of the bodice? Or can it be without? Then I'll just make it 1860 :-) AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/2/2003 4:49:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, >triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > > > >>But I like the gown of 1861 from Janet Arnold 2 >> >> >> > >Fair enough. It does look like the illustration you like. I would "warn" you >that details like the back point would not bee seen in 1840s...or the little >"notch" at the top of the side back piece. And the sleeves are a bit poofy. In >fact, the Winterhalter looks more 1860s than 1845 and I wondered about the >accuracy of the date of the illustration. > >But I don't mean to discourage you in any way or put your project down. You >seem to be having fun and you will of course be beautiful. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 12:49:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2Hnq74018815 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:49:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2HlvTQ013916; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:47:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2HlmeE004088; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2HlfeE003868 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:47:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.29.4c628e40 (4246) for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:47:30 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <29.4c628e40.2cfe2a32@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:47:30 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pleated berhte 1845 dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/2/2003 11:56:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > Does a 1860 gown always has a point at the back waist of the bodice? > I think...not sure...but only ball gowns have back points. And some are as deep as the front point. I know Past Patterns has an 1860s ball gown bodice pattern with a deep back point. [It's a lovely pattern too even if it has yucky sleeves] Were I making the typical 1840s dress the bodice would not have a back point. It would have a wide low neckline, long tight sleeves [unless a ball gown], a deep CF point, and the front pieces would be on the bias with 2 darts either side of a CF seam. And the skirt would be gathered or cartridge pleated into the waist. You realize you'll have to wear a hoop under your 1860 ball gown. Only a ball gown in 1860s would have a low neck and short sleeves. Now what was your activity in this gown? Weren't you making lace? Or was that someone else? Don't stray too far from your character. Y'know, if you nixed the back point and put long curving 2 piece sleeves in this gown it would be fine for 1840s and you could wear it with just petticoats. Just hand baste the sleeves in and you can change them to the short poofy ones later. Then you can wear it to Civil War parties... :-P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 13:31:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2IV774018884 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:31:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2ISlTQ018512; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:28:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2ISiwa012896; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:28:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2ISfwa012836 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:28:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip91.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.91]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC7CB6AA48 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:22:01 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:28:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Message-ID: <3FCC6961.19683.908BB15@localhost> Priority: normal References: <04bd01c3b89f$39d55920$427b4ed5@pavilion> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I did see something on the internet about women binding their > breasts > and thanks for all the other info! What did they bind them with? > Obviously, ace bandages hadn't been invented yet. Although I can't be sure, I suspect they used strips of linen. Heaven only knows that's what my mom used in the 1920's to try to get her DD breasts to look flat in the flapper era clothes. ;) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 13:57:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2Iv674019152 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:57:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2It4TQ021705; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:55:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2It3jr008609; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2IsXwa008077 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:54:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip91.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.91]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B59C6FDD8 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:54:32 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:54:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Message-ID: <3FCC6F6B.7591.92052F0@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <04bd01c3b89f$39d55920$427b4ed5@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > And body fat content does > have an influence on bust size. > > To some extent but not nearly as much as genetic disposition. Humans > have a very odd fat storage system and ability to be much fatter than > other animals without many harmful effects... That's true to a certain extent, but people with large breasts will usually end up with much smaller ones when they lose body fat. Once you drop below about a certain percentage of body fat, the breasts can reduce pretty quickly. Hormones can also have a big effect. And they are strongly affected by things like multiple pregnancies, famine, illness, etc. One of the things that really cuts down on breast size is a combination of low estrogen and low body fat. It's one of the reasons why so many female weight lifters need to have breast implants to have a bust. They may have started out with large breasts but once they have lost the body fat they not only often quit having periods they also end up with fried egg breasts. (This is part of that previous topic about birth control, breastfeeding and the like in the middle ages.) > How many extant 12C female garments are there ? Most if not all I'd > guess are fairly high status and cannot possibily match the number of > skellies avaliable for any given period due to their less durable > nature. In terms of garments which are dated by methods more precise than carbon 14 dating (which isn't accurate to being within a few centuries when it comes to clothing), very few. If you are lucky you find some used as caulking in ships (which would definitely not be high class) or from ecclesiastic collections (which have nothing to do with what women would have been wearing.) > Men & women fatten quite differently and women would carry a fair > amount of fat as they are hard wired to try to do so if at all > possible (ie if they are not starving) Which is one reason for over > indulgance evolution has not yet given humans on off switch when > enough fat has been eaten. Which in evolutionary terms suggest, > getting enough fat is important and desirable. Fat previously in many > social situation was desirable as a wealth indicator And some have more genetics for getting fat on very little than others. Most from Europe actually don't tend to get as fat as from, for example, SW USA. The more often a society was chronically starved (such as in hunter-gatherer societies vs agrarian societies), the more likely it is that they will have problems with overweight in even a normal eating situation. (The Pima tribe for instance.) Even though Europe had periods of starvation, these were generally not for generation after generation like the Pimas had to endure. (And to stave off some questions, the Pimas had some agriculture, but it was in very poor soil and often had to be transported from long distances.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 14:00:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2J0L74019324 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:00:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2IsfTQ021648; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:54:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Isbwa008163; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:54:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2IsWwa008056 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:54:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip91.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.91]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E15956F3FA for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:54:30 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:54:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Message-ID: <3FCC6F6B.5978.92051E6@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <04a901c3b89c$aca354a0$427b4ed5@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > But think of the evolutionary evidence for big busts. It is clear lots > of boob is not necessary for feeding children, but it has been > sexually selected for 100s of thousands of years (Stone age statues > etc etc) But not necessary to be large breasted. Many of the statues from stone age that I can think of tend to be mostly nipple or the woman is obviously pregnant or obese. And some of the others (such as some of the Asian/Indian ones) tend to have rather a bit of exaggerated curves as well as big breasts, which to me indicates that they weren't just big breasted. Then you have things like the Cretan snake women where the breasts are rather prominent. But they are also medium sized and quite perky. And lots of boob actually can create major problems for breastfeeding. I've seen many infants who could barely breathe when they breastfed because of the endowment of their mums. Even pushing down on the upper part of the breast so that the baby's nose is clear doesn't always help enough. (And since babies are obligate nose breathers, this can be really problematic.) Mums who are medium or small endowed have far fewer problems with breastfeeding in this way. (I've never breastfed, but I've helped 100s of breastfeeding moms since I became a pediatrician.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 14:05:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2J5U74019416 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:05:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2J4YTQ023151; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:04:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2J4Njr016984; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:04:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2J4Gjr016835 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:04:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip91.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.91]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0DAF6ABA8 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:04:09 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:04:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question Message-ID: <3FCC71AF.2954.9292A2E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003501c3b8a0$1a0ddc60$2495f80c@attbi.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If you look at this portrait of Jane Seymour, you can see that the > grain of her lining of the outer sleeve lies on the straight grain. > http://www.marileecody.com/seymour1.jpg . You really have no idea of the grainline based on that portrait. The sleeve lining is completely covered by embroidery in a pattern that might or might not have been running parallel to the grainline. Also, if you find a copy of > the whitehall portrait which was painted after Jane's death, the grain > of the ermine lining is on the straight also. Alot of the linings for > this type of sleeve were fur (at least in the surviving portraiture) > and the joins in the fabric are easily hidden by a skilled furrier. > This makes hide width unimportant because the furrier would create > whatever size piece was needed. Other linings appear to made from > velvet. I cannot explain why joins in velvet would not be portrayed > other than to say that perhaps the artists left them out. Artists can certainly leave them out. But I've found in photographs that my turnback sleeves of velvet don't show the joins that I can assure you are there. > I cut two sleeves out with the same shape; one with the grain on the > bias and one with the grain on the straight. I did not use Hunnisett's > pattern for the top of the sleeve. I adjusted the shape to one used in > period. [That is to say that the grain of the sleeve is on the > straight. The seams are diagonal. I put the seam on the back of the > arm like in a modern suit jacket, rather than under the arm against > the body in a typical button up modern shirt.] The one that I cut on > the straight hangs very nicely and looks like the portraits. The one > cut on the bias also looked nice, but not quite the same as the > portraits. Odd, because I've done exactly the same thing with using Hunnisett's sleeves unchanged and had them look exactly like the portrait, yet not hanging quite right when done the other way. YMMV I guess. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 14:25:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2JPu74019851 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:25:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2JOrTQ025523; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:24:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2JOejr005950; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2JOWjs005730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:24:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-157.sonic.net [209.148.112.157]) (authenticated bits=0)hB2JOPkN008307 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:24:26 -0800 Message-ID: <3FCCE7A2.3070002@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:27:30 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support References: <3FCC6F6B.5978.92051E6@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FCC6F6B.5978.92051E6@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-DCC-x-mailer.co.uk-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hB2JOWjs005730 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Then you have things like the Cretan snake women where the breasts >are rather prominent. But they are also medium sized and quite perky. > > > I have, somewhere, an article on an archaeologist's reconstruction of the ancient Cretan women's costume; her research, the process, and photos of the completed garments. This of course was a reconstruction. But, if I recall it correctly, comparison with the ancient artworks was interesting, with the ancient pictures coming off like idealizations. As list members will probably recall, the outfits in the ancient art would have looked great around 1880--if the bare bosoms had been covered up. They have wasp waists, and altogether look as if Cretan women were wearing corsets. The reconstruction, on the other hand, was based on the type of rectangular cuts known to have been used in ancient societies. It was distinctly less tight than the old art. The breasts were sufficently displayed by an open jacket to look indecent on a modern street. But they were not pushing up out of it, and did not look "perky." Fran ---------------------------------- Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Several discount copies are currently available _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 14:48:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2Jm974020178 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:48:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2JlKTQ027931; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:47:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2JlHwB025480; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:47:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40405.mail.yahoo.com (web40405.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB2JlDwB025317 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:47:14 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031202192028.89701.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.77.204.32] by web40405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:20:28 PST Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:20:28 -0800 (PST) From: Mary To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200312012124.hB1LOlQD026076@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Dickens /Christmas/ Costuming X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens /Christmas/ Costuming > > We had plenty of 'Old Timey' at Dickens' the first weekend - we > always > do. There were also some really nice outfits. The costume contest > had six > or seven entries both days. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > My daughter and my friend's daughter were both invited to participate in the costume contest on Saturday. My daughter was wearing a lavendar & off-white bustled gown (c. 1870), which I've been working on for weeks -- it wasn't complete, but done enough for her to wear. What is it about teenagers that they never seem to stop growing for one minute?!?!? I made 2 muslins, the second I used for the bodice lining. Then I cut the outer fabric. I test fitted it on her over and over. Yet, when I attached the lining to the fabric and turned it all right side out, it was too small!! And, of course, I had already trimmed the seams, so I couldn't let them out anymore. Sigh... Back to the costume contest -- the woman who won on Saturday was wearing the most beautiful 1840s dress, perfect down to the print of the fabric (at least, to my untrained eye). ~Mary ===== "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 14:48:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2JmQ74020181 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:48:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2JlaTQ027979; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:47:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2JlawB025759; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:47:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2JlPwB025601 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:47:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip91.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.91]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A3A6D74A for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:47:23 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:47:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor dresses/cartridge pleats Message-ID: <3FCC7BD5.19743.950CE6F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > A question about Tudor dresses (1540s about). I have a pattern that > shows using a gores using 4 gores for the skirt pattern. The question > is when did cartridge pleating come into being? Could I cartridge > pleat the skirt to have a fuller skirt and then attach the bodice? > Were the skirts supported by any type of hoops in the 1540s and were > bumrolls used? Still trying to figure just how to put this all > together. Many thanks Ysandra Cartridge pleating is first seen in the 12th century (on a man's gardecorp sleeve). It is very popular in many places, especially in Germany and Italy. If you use cartridge pleating in a 1540's Tudor you'd only put it in the very back, as it was smooth or knife pleated (or a combination of both) along the sides. You can see an excellent example of this in the Holbein drawing of an "unknown English lady" which is c.1535 and shows both a front and back view. You can also see it in back views in tapestries. (Unfortunately, there are no side views which show the transitions. Even if the woman is in "side view" she's got her arms in the way of seeing the join of the skirt!) There is a lot of controversy about the use of hoops in England prior to 1550. Some people are firmly in the camp of "no hoops until at least 1545" and that only multiple petticoats were use. Others feel that hoops came with Katherine of Aragon (although there are a lot of letters and the like that indicate that Katherine stopped wearing all the Spanish styles including the hoop when she became queen.) Many of the Holbein drawings show dresses which would clearly be petticoats, not hoops. Later paintings (such as the one supposedly of Jane Grey/Dudley from c1545) have a shape which look like they must have had a hoop to get the bottom of the skirt to hang the way it does. The English (as opposed to Spanish) inventories I've been able to find up to Mary I do not record vertingales, farthingales or any of the names which such hoops go by in England. They have plenty of "foreparts for a kirtle" but Mary I's inventories are the first to record vertingales. (And what is interesting is that except for when Philip was specifically visiting, her gowns tended to be "French" gowns, not Spanish.) Bumrolls are another area of controversy. Some people say that they were not worn with any sort of hoop, while others say that they could be worn with a hoop. And they don't show up in the inventories (but then, neither do other common things like shirts and smocks. It's like the things which are not made of silk, velvet or other rich fabric don't get mentioned very often at all.) Personally, I've found that the dress has far less pull on my shoulders (because it distributes the weight of the skirt over the hips, which petticoats and hoops do not do) if I use a small bumroll at the very back. It also helps keep the line of the back more similar to the Holbein back view. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 15:09:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2K9Y74020371 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:09:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2K81TQ000668; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2K7vJZ016280; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:07:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB2K7pJZ016206 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:07:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23484 invoked by uid 1005); 2 Dec 2003 20:07:42 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.074279 secs); 02 Dec 2003 20:07:42 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.074279 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 2 Dec 2003 20:07:41 -0000 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:07:47 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor dresses/cartridge pleats In-Reply-To: <3FCC7BD5.19743.950CE6F@localhost> Message-ID: <20031202150154.F53911-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Bumrolls are another area of controversy. Some people say that they > were not worn with any sort of hoop, while others say that they could > be worn with a hoop. And they don't show up in the inventories (but > then, neither do other common things like shirts and smocks. It's > like the things which are not made of silk, velvet or other rich > fabric don't get mentioned very often at all.) Personally, I've found > that the dress has far less pull on my shoulders (because it > distributes the weight of the skirt over the hips, which petticoats > and hoops do not do) if I use a small bumroll at the very back. It > also helps keep the line of the back more similar to the Holbein back > view. In Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts of the 1560s & 1570s, I've come across numerous mentions of "french" gowns (i.e., fitted bodice sewn to gathered skirt) having both heavy wool and buckram pleated into the pleats to help them stand out, as well as small rolls stitched to the pleats. The first reference I've found to a roll mentioned separate from a gown is 1580. I experimented with padding pleats in the farthingale I'm currently making. I sandwiched a piece of buckram between two layers of thick wool, stitched it to the back waistline of the taffeta farthingale, and box-pleated all layers together. It took some tough stitching, but the result is very pleasing--the back of the farthingale stands out for all the world as if there were a small bumroll beneath it. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 15:09:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2K9f74020374 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:09:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2K8rTQ000801; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:08:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2K8jJZ017121; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:08:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2K8aJZ016897 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:08:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.67.245]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031202200835.VGQM1080.orval.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:08:35 -0500 Message-ID: <01c901c3b90f$da234b60$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:06:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [h-cost] 15th C gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all! I really want to make myself a 15th c gown, I have been perusing all of the appropriate art, been absorbing all the information the costume lists I am on have to offer whenever the topic comes up, and now finally have some cool fabric to make the gown itself. I lucked out and found some chenille drapery fabric in dark green and gold ($8.00 a meter Cdn). The fabric itself is not period, of course, but the pattern is nearly identical to the pattern of the gown in this picture: http://www.kfki.hu/%7Earthp/art/m/memling/3mature3/25more3.jpg There are a couple of details that I need confirmation or assistance on. For the bodice portion of the gown would I be better off with a 3 or a 4 piece bodice? My original intent was to do a 10 gore, but I have found no evidence that this type of garment could be cut that way, plus many of the paintings of the period appear to have a waist seam. The skirt I had intended on cutting like the Mary of Hungary gown: http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/hungarian_cutting.jpg The fabric I have is very wide, and I thought this would be the best way to show the pattern with minimal seam lines. Any thoughts? Would I be better off with a wedge and gore arrangement, which is what I am used to... Tips and tricks for the sleeves? I am not very good at making my own sleeve patterns, I always get the armscye wrong unless I use the earlier period trick of using a small triangular gore at the top of the sleeve. Now I am on the look out for some nice rich red fabric for the false sleeves and the false front to pin under the front of the gown, I recently saw some very nice cotton velvet on sale for Christmas, or perhaps I should hold out for a nice silk? Any comments, anecdotes or tips are greatly appreciated, this is my first foray into this period of garment and any extra information I can get would be fantastic! Sheridan *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Thought For The Day: There is a very fine line between 'Hobby' and 'Mental Illness' _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 15:22:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2KM174020441 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:22:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2KL6TQ003284; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:21:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2KL4JZ028967; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2KKrJZ028784 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:20:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip91.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.91]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B4EB6A833 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:14:14 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:20:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Message-ID: <3FCC83A7.11913.96F5C65@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FCCE7A2.3070002@lavoltapress.com> References: <3FCC6F6B.5978.92051E6@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have, somewhere, an article on an archaeologist's reconstruction of > the ancient Cretan women's costume; her research, the process, and > photos of the completed garments. That was from Archeology. (Someday I'll put my issues in some form of order or at least get them all in one place!) This of course was a > reconstruction. But, if I recall it correctly, comparison with the > ancient artworks was interesting, with the ancient pictures coming off > like idealizations. As list members will probably recall, the outfits > in the ancient art would have looked great around 1880--if the bare > bosoms had been covered up. They have wasp waists, and altogether > look as if Cretan women were wearing corsets. The reconstruction, on > the other hand, was based on the type of rectangular cuts known to > have been used in ancient societies. It was distinctly less tight than > the old art. The breasts were sufficently displayed by an open jacket > to look indecent on a modern street. But they were not pushing up out > of it, and did not look "perky." But that may have been due to the body of the lady who did the reconstruction. There are photographs from the 60s showing rather perky breasts in the clear vinyl clothes and I know women who have breasts that look just as perky (as some of us have already mentioned.) I'm also remembering a number of *very* old photographs from National Geographic where the young African women had breasts which would have looked very much like the Cretan goddess sculptures. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 15:47:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2Klu74021164 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:47:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2KlDTQ006434; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:47:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Kl7JZ025563; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:47:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Kl3Ja025415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:47:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-215.sonic.net [209.148.112.215]) (authenticated bits=0)hB2KkskN005535 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:46:57 -0800 Message-ID: <3FCCFAF7.60708@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:49:59 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support References: <3FCC6F6B.5978.92051E6@localhost> <3FCC83A7.11913.96F5C65@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FCC83A7.11913.96F5C65@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I'm also remembering a number of *very* old photographs from National >Geographic where the young African women had breasts which would have >looked very much like the Cretan goddess sculptures. > > > I feel women of differing body types and weights existed in every historical era, even if from the same geographic area and even if from the same age group. I also feel that with every cultural ideal of beauty, most people don't meet it. In a painting, maybe, but not in reality. That's why it's an ideal. A few people will meet it and most of them will have to work at it; more will aim at the ideal and get closer to it but not meet it. Clothing can carry many desirable messages. Including a display of wealth, social status, and familiarity with the fashions of a prestigious group. I can't see a woman who had the wealth, etc. to wear high fashion automatically passing up the opportunity just because she was busty or heavy overall. Fran ---------------------------------- Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 15:48:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2Kmn74021168 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:48:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Km1TQ006517; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2KluJZ026348; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:47:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2KlpJZ026228 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:47:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24494 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:13:58 -0600 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:13:58 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown In-Reply-To: <01c901c3b90f$da234b60$cb6afea9@shooie> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Sheridan & Shane wrote: > I really want to make myself a 15th c gown, I have been perusing all > of the appropriate art, been absorbing all the information the costume > lists I am on have to offer whenever the topic comes up, and now > finally have some cool fabric to make the gown itself. I lucked out > and found some chenille drapery fabric in dark green and gold ($8.00 a > meter Cdn). The fabric itself is not period, of course, but the > pattern is nearly identical to the pattern of the gown in this > picture: > http://www.kfki.hu/%7Earthp/art/m/memling/3mature3/25more3.jpg ... Any > comments, anecdotes or tips are greatly appreciated, this is my first > foray into this period of garment and any extra information I can get > would be fantastic! Before you commit yourself, you might want to be aware that the woman in the patterned gown is St. Barbara and not meant to be a realistic figure. There is a very strong chance that her outfit would never have been worn by a "real" woman and may have existed only as a costume in the artist's studio, if that. Current fashion of this time is better represented by the women donors lower in the picture. Barbara's dress includes elements of several examples of older fashions, mixed-and-matched. The fabric pattern is one you see on realistic dresses of a few decades earlier, but those dresses were of quite different style (usually V-necked overgowns). The element of an oversleeve pinned to a short-sleeved laced-front fitted dress seems to have been a form of informal wear earlier in the century, but I don't think I've seen an example of that type of dress that included the fabric panel under the lacing and over the bosom, which came into fashion a bit later as part of another style. Some more detail: The short-sleeved laced-front fitted dress with added sleeves, which probably was real enough for informal wear in the 1430s, became cemented in artwork starting with van der Weyden in the 1430s, who used it on certain female religious figures. That usage was copied by other Flemish artists for decades thereafter. When Memling came around, he freely picked up a lot of "standard" costume iconography from his contemporaries and predecessors, and often jazzed it up with elements of more current or recent fashionable dress. By the time he painted this in the 1480s, he could easily pick up the plastron-under-lacing from another contemporary style to "update" the traditional short-sleeved laced-front "saint dress." I think it's quite likely the short-sleeved fitted underdress was still being worn in the 1480s, though probably not universally. But it would be quite a different garment from what Memling is showing here, which has morphed into an overlayer, thanks to the fabric choice and the addition of the panel. And you know, I'm sure, that the artfully draped mantle and flowing hair are standard saintly presentation, certainly not something worn by real women of this time. If you want a 15th century use for that fabric, consider something a bit earlier, such as this from 1449: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/c/christus/2/eligius.jpg That's on my personal wish list, and I had that image as the wallpaper on my computer for a really long time. I've found similar black-and-gold brocade fabric at a drapery store, but at $30/yard all I can do is gaze fondly at the swatch I took home. :-( --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 15:59:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2Kxa74021303 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:59:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2KwqTQ007802; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:58:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Kwol8007967; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:58:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13425.mail.yahoo.com (web13425.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.156]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB2Kwil8007882 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:58:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031202205844.35702.qmail@web13425.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13425.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:58:44 PST Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:58:44 -0800 (PST) From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest outfits, was wondering To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FCC02F2.2623C112@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So don't use glazed wool, then -- use silk, or even linen! (Someone turned up an example of a quilted linen petticoat from the PA Gazette on the 18CWoman list a while back) I made my quilted petticoat using regular suit-weight worsted wool for the outermost layer, FWIW... - Mara --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > --sue, who wants to quilt herself an 18th c. petticoat one of these > days, if she can find the right fabric (glazed wool, anyone???) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 16:15:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2LFt74022328 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:15:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2LF8TQ009878; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2LF2l8024370; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2LEul8024250 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:14:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.67.103]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031202211454.WPQM1080.orval.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:14:54 -0500 Message-ID: <01e801c3b919$1e270320$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:13:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [h-cost] Irish Embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here is a question for Kass, but if anyone else has any ideas please pass it on. :-) I have nearly finished a leine (sp?) for my husband who does early Irish and British. (400 to 700 give or take a century) Celtic knotwork not being documentable for anything but stonework for much later periods, my question is this: What sort of embroidery designs would you suggest for his shirt? I do plan on some simple stitches to outline the seamlines, but was looking for something for the neckline and sleeves. Any suggestions? Sheridan *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on. Terry Pratchett _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 16:43:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2Lh374022946 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:43:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2LgFTQ013635; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2LgDl8022216; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:42:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Lg8l8022129 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:42:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104036.uvm.edu [132.198.104.36]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Lg6g2021518 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:42:06 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCD072D.8080007@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:42:05 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wool Vendor References: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA95A6@exchange.lynchburg.edu> In-Reply-To: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA95A6@exchange.lynchburg.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And another question about ebay/en5001's wool: Does anyone know what the weave of his wool gabardine actually is? Is it a standard twill or one of those weird modern "tricotine" types that look like twill on one side but not at all twillish on the other? And how much does it full/fluff when washed? Thanks! - Hope (who is always one the lookout for reasonably priced gown-weight wool with a decent pre-1500-type weave) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 16:46:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2LkM74023027 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:46:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2LjfTQ014045; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Ljel8025574; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:45:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Ljbl8025519 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:45:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hB2Llx301461 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:47:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:47:59 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200312022147.hB2Llx301461@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well, no, if you click on "likarmade" it brings up illustrations of > clasps made of two halves in mirror-image. Then "symmetrical" or "mirrored" are probably the right translations. --Lee _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 17:13:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2MDD74023409 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:13:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2MCJTQ017410; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:12:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2MCH9f023643; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:12:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2MCE9f023477 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:12:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hB2MC0Ag022272 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:12:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031202071354.02f51348@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:11:19 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support In-Reply-To: <200312012328.hB1NS8XF002874@net.indra.com> References: <200312012328.hB1NS8XF002874@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat wrote: >I'm with you! I rarely wore a bra, mostly because I couldn't find >ones that fit around my ribcage (I'm at my largest I've ever been and >still only need a size 32" band size... To which Cathy Raymond responded: >I can find bras in ordinary stores in 32A; Victoria's Secret also carries >them. (I'm wearing a VS model as I type this, in fact). It's just a bit >harder to find them because stores stock fewer bras in small sizes.... Most of my college years, I was a 34D or a 32DD. I'm pretty sure I *used* to see band sizes going down to 30". I found I could get very good deals -- *and* in my size -- at (the original) Filene's Basement. You can still find the "off combos" (narrow and deep; wide and shallow) really cheaply in a lot of the job-lot and discount type places; many of them are name brands -- even imported designer brands -- and in all sorts of styles. In a subsequent message, Kat wrote: >The 28s and 30s are still nonexistant (just like the G cup bras.)You can >usually find As, Bs >and Cs nowadays (mostly at Nordstroms and Victoria Secret) but finding the >Ds and DDs >is still *very* difficult. (Especially the DDs. Forget anything larger.) >And they are usually >in the more ugly (to me) styles (like the ones with really heavy, scratchy >stretch >lace on the sides. Ugh.) If I'm lucky they have one in my size (either >because they didn't >get more in than that or because they've already sold it to someone else.) >And finding them in other stores is still pretty impossible. Try the job-lot and overstock places: those are the sizes that the manufacturers and stores generally can't sell, so that's where they end up. Back to Kat's earlier message: >...However, I noticed (while watching Starship Troopers when it first >came to the movie theatres) that most 24 year olds had far more droop >than I did at more than double that age. I'm within a few months of >50, with a DD cup size and I droop very little. to which Dianne noted: >And then there are those of us with a relatively small bust, who have had >droop since we had a bust! Mine were NEVER perky. They have pointed at my >knees since there was anything there to point at anything. and Sue Clemenger added: >And there's folks like me, now quite large (sigh), but always >big-busted. I went from completely flat to a really generous C cup in >about 6 months. The girls never had a chance to be perky. They >certainly don't now. I'm with Dianne and Sue. I failed the "pencil test" from the very beginning... at least since back when I was an "A" cup in 6th Grade. I was to the point where I'd wear bras to sleep because I felt I was flopping around _that_ much. (BTW, I "grew" pretty quickly: I went from trainer bras at age 10 to a D cup at age 14 or 15, and have never been "smaller" than that...) Kat continued: >So, I firmly believe that Coopers Droop is a myth perpetrated to get >women to wear bras. Either that or I've been extremely lucky over the >years. I think either (1) the latter or (2) it depends on genetics or (3) it depends on overall fitness level, etc. Sue continued: >...the only times I've [been "perky"] in my adult life have been in a Gothic >Fitted Gown prototype, and in an Elizabethan corset (with a really snug >ItalianRen coming close)... I've found Goddess style 589/590 will do it nicely, even if you wear it strapless :) Also, I purchased a Victorian-style corset (I think designed for something around 1840's?) at a ren faire some years ago, which also "presented" me properly... >...I recently had a heck of a time figuring out how to do a decent >square-necked >shift for my 16th c. Flemish outfit, but once I did, I was quite pleased >with the results... This sounds interesting: what did you do to adapt it? Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 17:27:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2MRj74023564 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:27:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2MQxTQ019237; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:26:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2MQu9f008922; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:26:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2MQr9f008855 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:26:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hB2MQqtb027849 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:26:52 -0500 Message-ID: <022401c3b923$611f21d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200312012328.hB1NS8XF002874@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20031202071354.02f51348@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:26:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda Bell" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 5:11 PM Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support >-- at (the original) Filene's Basement. > Brenda *sigh* Filene's basement.... how I miss checking those dates.... the bargains galore...... It was one of the few things that made cleaning ice off of my car worth the effort. *sigh* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 17:37:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2Mbk74023619 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:37:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2MaiTQ020390; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:36:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Mag9f019046; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:36:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Mab9f018962 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:36:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-103-168.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.103.168]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id APD60899; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:36:34 GMT Message-ID: <00d701c3b925$97ee2100$a8674ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FCC6F6B.5978.92051E6@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:42:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >But not necessary to be large breasted. Many of the statues from stone age that I can think of tend to be mostly nipple or the woman is obviously pregnant or obese. I can't actually think of any slim line early staues so if you can points these out & pics on the web I'd be interested. I'm not really sure what you mean by mostly nipple ? The typical profile to me is big boobs, big tum & big bum very little variation on it hence the mother/fertility associations postulated >And some of the others (such as some of the Asian/Indian ones) tend to have rather a bit of exaggerated curves as well as big breasts, which to me indicates that they weren't just big breasted. Asian body forms (although I'm no expert) seem to be inherently smaller in the curves dep, I seem to recall their ability to digest and live on starch also differs, so it could perhaps be argued the form evolutionary wise differs, But I think that route distracts as we are talking European 12th C I believe ? >And lots of boob actually can create major problems for breastfeeding. I haven't observed lots of women, so I can only speak from my own experiance here, but when I'm feeding my boobs although bigger are firmer as they are full of milk, fatty boobs would seem on face value to be a bigger potention suffacator. Also in the US is it possible the greater intermix of racial types changes the specifics in ways which would show to a much leser extent in a more confined gene pool ? >Mums who are medium or small endowed have far fewer problems with breastfeeding in this way. Again I'd have to guess these are in the main bra wearing, largly inactive women as opposed to active, big breasted women with less fat ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 17:49:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2Mne74023657 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:49:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2MmTTQ021808; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:48:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2MmQ9f000755; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:48:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2MmK9f000628 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:48:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-103-168.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.103.168]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id APD61841; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:48:17 GMT Message-ID: <00e501c3b927$38da4e80$a8674ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FCC6F6B.7591.92052F0@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:54:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >That's true to a certain extent, but people with large breasts will usually end up with much smaller ones when they lose body fat. Inevitabily to a certain extent, but however slim I've been (even too thin at one time) my boobs have been bigger than the average for my size Observations of others tends to bear this out to >Once you drop below about a certain percentage of body fat, the breasts can reduce pretty quickly. If you body is starving yep it uses what it has ! >One of the things that really cuts down on breast size is a combination of low estrogen and low body fat. Which happens in old age when the profile of males & females get closer and fat tends to collect around the middle in both cases >It's one of the reasons why so many female weight lifters need to have breast implants to have a bust. They may have started out with large breasts but once they have lost the body fat they not only often quit having periods they also end up with fried egg breasts. But these women are not fertile and therefore would not bred one if they maintain that state, thus in the past would not contribute to the gene pool. weight lifting or excersise to that extent IMHO is not fit (as in the biological sense) >some have more genetics for getting fat on very little than others. Most from Europe actually don't tend to get as fat as from, for example, SW USA. And SW USA genotype is what ? To be frank I thought most US people got fatter due to the earlier introduction of processed and fast food As I child I remember visiting and there were far more fat people than in the UK, these days we are facing a general problem here which is resulting in advertising bans on kids foodstuffs possible soon. > The more often a society was chronically starved (such as in hunter-gatherer societies vs agrarian societies), the more likely it is that they will have problems with overweight in even a normal eating situation. (The Pima tribe for instance.) You are suggesting hg are more often starved than agrarians ? In the Americas ? Because not all evidence suggests this, in fact the opposite in some cases, when looking sketally. Although those with less access to fat (like hg v dairy farmers) fattening easier makes sense Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 18:02:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2N2v74023723 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:02:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2N2ATQ023254; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2N2979014336; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:02:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2N2479014204 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:02:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.58 ([204.127.135.58]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2003120223015911100ckscee>; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 23:01:59 +0000 Received: from [162.130.1.254] by 204.127.135.58; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:01:58 +0000 From: ladysarafina@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:01:58 +0000 Message-Id: <120220032301.7913.161c@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: aHN3YXNoaW5ndG9uQGF0dC5uZXQ= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Would it make sense for then to embroider on the bias? Also, at least based on the spanish tailor's book, the sleeves were cut on the straight. Is it logical to extrapolate that generally pattern pieces are cut on the straight? The other question I have is why did Hunnisett choose to orient the pattern this way? Since both we both have had good results using different layouts, perhaps the secret lies in the pattern shape and is not affected as much by the grain. -- The Honourable Lady Sarafina Sinclair, CE, CW, APF http://ladysarafina.home.att.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 18:16:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2NGQ74023773 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:16:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2NFOTQ024640; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:15:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2NFJ79026687; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:15:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from out009.verizon.net (out009pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2NFC79026560 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from Fiona ([141.152.138.163]) by out009.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20031202231511.MWMB15642.out009.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:15:11 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Ecclesiastical Clothing Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:15:10 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3FCD072D.8080007@uvm.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out009.verizon.net from [141.152.138.163] at Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:15:11 -0600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello All I am looking for information regarding the construction of 18th century Anglican Cassocks. The programs I want it for are set in 1737 and 1774. I suspect that there is little alteration in the garment throughout that period, but would like to know also if that is true or not. What I am specifically looking for is locations where I may attempt to get photographs of extant garments. I need documentation to proceed with my project, but the easist documentation to find are portraits and othe art. These always show either a scholastic robe, or surplice over the cossack, therefore hiding the details that I need. If someone does know of artwork that shows an Anglican priest wearing a Cassock with nothing over it that would help as well. I realize that these are tall orders, and any help would be appreciated. Cheers, "I'm your huckleberry" Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 18:18:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2NIF74023780 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:18:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2NHcTQ024831; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:17:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2NHb79028692; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:17:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2NHZ79028670 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:17:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip91.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.91]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FDBE6AA79 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:10:55 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:17:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor dresses/cartridge pleats Message-ID: <3FCCAD16.24448.A113542@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3FCC7BD5.19743.950CE6F@localhost> In-reply-to: <20031202150154.F53911-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I experimented with padding pleats in the farthingale I'm currently > making. I sandwiched a piece of buckram between two layers of thick > wool, stitched it to the back waistline of the taffeta farthingale, > and box-pleated all layers together. It took some tough stitching, but > the result is very pleasing--the back of the farthingale stands out > for all the world as if there were a small bumroll beneath it. Does it help take the strain off the back that having a separate small bumroll does? Shoot, mine end up padded something like this anyway just to get the pleats big enough. But without that little waist attached separate bum roll the weight is still on my back rather than around my waist. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 18:23:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2NNO74023790 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:23:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2NMwTQ025400; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:22:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2NMv79003848; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:22:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2NMp79003603 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:22:51 -0700 (MST) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 440452 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:22:45 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:22:45 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] early tudor undersleeves question From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <120220032301.7913.161c@att.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-DCC-x-mailer.co.uk-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 12/2/03 3:01 PM, "ladysarafina@att.net" wrote: > Would it make sense for then to embroider on the bias? Also, at least based > on the spanish tailor's book, the sleeves were cut on the straight. Is it > logical to extrapolate that generally pattern pieces are cut on the straight? > > The other question I have is why did Hunnisett choose to orient the pattern > this way? Since both we both have had good results using different layouts, > perhaps the secret lies in the pattern shape and is not affected as much by > the grain. > This is a good point; maybe the pattern of the _fabric_ dictated which way she cut the sleeves, not the pattern piece or the grain. She is dealing primarily with theater, not history, as someone reminded us earlier in this conversation. AND even if cutting on the bias wasn't the right way to go (sorry, I stopped paying attention at one point and picked it up again recently), interlining the piece on the grain with embroidery for stability would help with the drape. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 18:46:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2Nkn74023865 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:46:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Nk8TQ027992; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:46:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Nk679025204; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB2Nk379025167 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:46:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-68-92-155-61.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net (HELO corsetsandcostumes.com) (lindajthompson@sbcglobal.net@68.92.155.61 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2003 23:46:02 -0000 Message-ID: <3F0360DE.90706@corsetsandcostumes.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:46:54 -0500 From: linda User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] re: swimwear and location X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Message: 13 >Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:27:38 EST >From: AnnBWass@aol.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] swim wear >To: h-costume@indra.com >Message-ID: <7e.424e58ae.2cfd286a@aol.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >In a message dated 12/1/2003 5:36:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, >Camelothorse@earthlink.net writes: >Are you that much older than me or is >Texas more progressive than I thought ? Boys had to wear suits and girls >were allowed in the pool at he same time. I had always thought of Texas as >being a little behind the rest of the U.S. but, perhaps I am wrong. >I'm just over 50, and, actually, our high school, Normandy High School in St. >Louis County, MO, may have been out of the norm, because periodically people >would call the radio station to say, "you know what that school is doing in >swim classes?" We were, however, one of the few schools to have a swimming pool >at all. My brother was 7 years older, but it continued through my years, and >I think for some years after, as I seem to remember hearing one of the above >calls later. The radio station would call the school superintendent to >confirm if it was true. (He later went on to be athletic director at Mizzou, by the >way.) The boys on the swim team of course wore trunks. > >Ann Wass I am 52, and I lived in Kansas City, Missouri when the boys swam nude. My brother was 7 years older than I and it realy upset me that he could swim at the YMCA and I couldn't, also I went to a Catholic School... You have to remember, the state right next to us, Kansas, was a "dry" state meaning no hard liquor was allowed to be sold in that state at all. You could buy lower alcohol that was 3.2% but no higher... We had a "blue" law on sundays (no liquor could be sold in stores) until sometime in the mid 80's in Kansas City. How far we have progessed since that. :D _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 18:48:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2NmL74023881 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:48:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2NldTQ028124; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:47:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2Nlc79026474; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:47:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB2NlF79026175 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:47:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A48A3E0660; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:47:22 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:47:22 -0600 Message-ID: <000401c3b92e$a1d06850$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <120220032301.7913.161c@att.net> Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] twins- separated at birth? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anybody here seen "Blackadder"? I think Rowan Atkinson missed a bet.. http://ladysarafina.home.att.net/1582_Infanta_Catalina_Michaela_of_Austr ia_by_Coello.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 19:10:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB30At74023978 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:10:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30A6TQ000610; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:10:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30A3tY014472; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14802.mail.yahoo.com (web14802.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB309wtY014400 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:10:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031203000957.19739.qmail@web14802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.65.146.151] by web14802.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:09:57 PST Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:09:57 -0800 (PST) From: Lori Leppink To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Italian Ren X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! My SCA name is Giovanna, and I am new to this list. I am fairly new to costuming, too, and I am always full of questions. I have gotten a lot of really helpful information from reading the posts on this list, but I have a couple of questions I was wondering if anyone could help me with. When would they have started using cartridge pleating in Florence, and when did they start using corded petticoats or farthingales? I am trying to put together a complete outfit from about the 1490s, and I am not sure if they would have used these. I have been doing double box pleats, but I would like to get fuller skirts if that would be accurate. Thanks a lot! Giovanna --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 19:19:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB30JJ74024043 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:19:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30ITTQ001747; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:18:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30IStY021284; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:18:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30IPtY021228 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:18:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ap-002scfairp0407.dialsprint.net ([63.184.201.153] helo=faucet.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ARKim-0001ci-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:18:24 -0800 Message-ID: <3FCD3988.30901@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:16:56 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor dresses/cartridge pleats References: <3FCC7BD5.19743.950CE6F@localhost> <3FCCAD16.24448.A113542@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > Does it help take the strain off the back that having a separate > small bumroll does? > > Shoot, mine end up padded something like this anyway just to get the > pleats big enough. But without that little waist attached separate > bum roll the weight is still on my back rather than around my waist. If you've got a corset, tie your farthingale to it. Arnold hypothesizes that this is what the eyelets are for in the bottom of the corset in Patterns of Fashion. When I did this with mine, I stopped having lower back pain. Tying the farthingale to the corset distributes all the weight of the skirts throughout the torso and shoulders (corset must have straps for this to work!). You can see mine, with close-up photos of the ties and further exhortation on the benefits to your back at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/under.html That way you can have bumroll or no bumroll without sacrificing your back. I end up sending this to the list every other year or so, it seems, so apologies to those who've seen it before. If back pain can be avoided, I'm willing to repeat myself! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume http://www.coastal.edu/theater _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 19:21:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB30LA74024049 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:21:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30KNTQ002042; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:20:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30KNtY022864; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:20:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30KJtY022807 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:20:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26340 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:46:28 -0600 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:46:28 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wool Vendor In-Reply-To: <3FCD072D.8080007@uvm.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Hope Greeenberg wrote: > And another question about ebay/en5001's wool: Does anyone know what > the weave of his wool gabardine actually is? Is it a standard twill or > one of those weird modern "tricotine" types that look like twill on > one side but not at all twillish on the other? And how much does it > full/fluff when washed? I bought the twill, not the gabardine. It's a true twill. It softened and fluffed only barely in the wash, so I think it is a worsted wool. (Hope, that was the fabric of the red dress I wore in Boston.) I have no idea about his gabardines, though you could email him and ask if they're tricotine. I saw something recently called tricotine and it was suitably twillish on both sides, so there may be some variation. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 19:21:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB30LS74024052 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:21:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30KiTQ002081; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:20:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30KitY023117; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:20:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30KftY023026 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:20:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.29.4c684679 (4246) for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:20:29 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <29.4c684679.2cfe864d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:20:29 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Ecclesiastical Clothing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/2/2003 6:16:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: I am looking for information regarding the construction of 18th century Anglican Cassocks. The programs I want it for are set in 1737 and 1774. I suspect that there is little alteration in the garment throughout that period, but would like to know also if that is true or not. When I was researching the attire of American Episcopal priests in the early 19th century, I came to the conclusion that they did not wear cassocks. The cassock seems to have come in about mid century, I believe 1840 or so. So I dressed my priest in somber regular clothes, but with the white linen robe whose correct eccliastical name escapes me at the moment. This was for an early 19th century funeral. I don't have the documentation with me--some of it may be at my office, and I won't be back there until Thursday, but I will look then and see what references I still have. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 19:22:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB30Lx74024058 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:21:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30LPTQ002152; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:21:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30LOtY023602; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:21:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30LLtY023500 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:21:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.175.231abbef (4246) for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:21:08 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <175.231abbef.2cfe8673@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:21:07 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Ecclesiastical Clothing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/2/2003 6:16:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: surplice over the cossack "surplice" is the name of the white linen robe, thank you. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 19:49:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB30n274024280 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:49:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30mKTQ004325; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:48:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30mEtY011980; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:48:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30m9tY011924 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:48:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip128.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.128]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE096F2B3 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:47:46 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:47:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Message-ID: <3FCCC231.15148.A63A94A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00e501c3b927$38da4e80$a8674ed5@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >It's one of the reasons > why so many female weight lifters need to have breast implants to have > a bust. They may have started out with large breasts but once they > have lost the body fat they not only often quit having periods they > also end up with fried egg breasts. > > But these women are not fertile and therefore would not bred one if > they maintain that state, thus in the past would not contribute to the > gene pool. weight lifting or excersise to that extent IMHO is not fit > (as in the biological sense) Actually, some of them are fertile. It depends on a number of factors. And some of the information I've seen tends to show that although it is for different reasons (starvation as opposed to excess exercise), women from the middle ages may not have bred as quickly as an age matched cohort from now. > >some have more genetics for getting fat on very little than > others. Most from Europe actually don't tend to get as fat as from, > for example, SW USA. > > And SW USA genotype is what ? Not modern SW USA genotype but pre-contact the people developed what the scientists are calling the "thrifty gene." It's difficult to explain but this article can explain what I'm talking about far better than I can: http://www.pbs.org/saf/1110/features/fighting.htm > To be frank I thought most US people got fatter due to the earlier > introduction of processed and fast food As I child I remember visiting > and there were far more fat people than in the UK, these days we are > facing a general problem here which is resulting in advertising bans > on kids foodstuffs possible soon. In the overall Americans, this is probably the case (combined with too much time sitting in front of a telly instead of playing outside.) However, the example of the Pimas that I'm talking about goes far beyond that. (There are tons of articles about this. If you google Pima+Obesity you get more articles on the subject than you'd want to ever see.) > > The more often a society was chronically starved > (such as in hunter-gatherer societies vs agrarian societies), the more > likely it is that they will have problems with overweight in even a > normal eating situation. (The Pima tribe for instance.) > > You are suggesting hg are more often starved than agrarians ? In the > Americas ? Because not all evidence suggests this, in fact the > opposite in some cases, when looking sketally. I think that you'd have to look at where they are doing their HG. If you are talking about food rich areas (such as in Africa), they are going to have an easier time of it than in other areas. I don't know why skeletally (which I think you mean by sketally) you would necessarily be able to tell. If there are certain types of wear patterns on the bones or muscle attachments you could but there are other reasons why it might be the case, but levels of obesity vs normal weight would be difficult to tell. Could you give me some references? All of my forensic books talk about being able to reconstruct if they know if the person was emaciated, normal or obese but say that they can't tell from looking at the bones themselves which it was. (Although some of the medical references talk about the bones of obese people being denser due to the leptins, but not that there is any structural difference you could tell from a skeleton.) > Although those with less access to fat (like hg v dairy farmers) > fattening easier makes sense Yes, and when the diet changes completely (such as when Pima people are put on "normal" American diets), they fatten far faster than the general population. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 19:49:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB30ng74024286 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:49:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30n5TQ004399; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:49:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30n4tY012560; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:49:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB30mFtY011984 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:48:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip128.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.128]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA936F4C6 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:47:48 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:47:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Message-ID: <3FCCC231.8060.A63A850@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00d701c3b925$97ee2100$a8674ed5@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The typical profile to me is big boobs, big tum & big bum very little > variation on it hence the mother/fertility associations postulated That doesn't mean it was a look that was looked for in a mate. Sometimes women don't get this look until after they've been "mated" a while. > >And lots of boob actually can create major problems for > breastfeeding. > > I haven't observed lots of women, so I can only speak from my own > experiance here, but when I'm feeding my boobs although bigger are > firmer as they are full of milk, fatty boobs would seem on face value > to be a bigger potention suffacator. Big, firm breasts are even harder to deal with when breast feeding than squishy ones because they are harder to get away from the baby's face. When you push the large firm breast away from baby's face, the nipple pops out. > >Mums who are medium or > small endowed have far fewer problems with breastfeeding in this way. > Again I'd have to guess these are in the main bra wearing, largly > inactive women as opposed to active, big breasted women with less fat > ? Not from what I've seen in breastfeeding moms. Bra wearing may be a factor (as several of us have mentioned) but most of the women who have large breasts, have smaller ones when they lose the weight or become more fit. But like I said, it seems like the firmer breasted women had more problems than the squishier ones (who could push it out of the way a little easier.) The exceptions are the ones whose breasts were firm in some ways, but had more breast below the nipple than above. But those women tended to be smaller breasted to begin with. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 20:25:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB31Pq74024525 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:25:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB31PBTQ007531; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:25:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB31P8ih006589; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:25:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB31P6ih006561 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:25:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip128.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.128]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0C66ABEC for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:25:04 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:25:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Ren Message-ID: <3FCCCAFA.20525.A85F949@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031203000957.19739.qmail@web14802.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > When would they have started using cartridge pleating in Florence, and > when did they start using corded petticoats or farthingales? I am > trying to put together a complete outfit from about the 1490s, and I > am not sure if they would have used these. I have been doing double > box pleats, but I would like to get fuller skirts if that would be > accurate. 1490 Florence could have had cartridge pleating but its doubtful that they would have had any sort of stiffened petticoat. They certainly didn't have farthingales in that time period. (In that time period only Spain had them and they weren't like we think of.) Some books you might find useful: Dress In Renaissance Italy 1400-1500 by Jacqueline Herald Dress in Italian Painting 1460-1500 by Elizabeth Birbari. If you are also interested in the culture and daily life in that time period in the Tuscan Valley (Florence), let me know and I'll give you some more references. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 20:32:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB31W874024565 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:32:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB31VWTQ008137; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:31:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB31VVih010491; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:31:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB31VTih010461 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:31:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-84.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.84]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB31Uqpf021341 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:30:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031202172946.058b0e00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:31:10 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dickens /Christmas/ Costuming In-Reply-To: <20031202192028.89701.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200312012124.hB1LOlQD026076@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >My daughter and my friend's daughter were both invited to participate >in the costume contest on Saturday. My daughter was wearing a >lavendar & off-white bustled gown (c. 1870), which I've been working >on for weeks -- it wasn't complete, but done enough for her to wear. I saw that. Nice. >Back to the costume contest -- the woman who won on Saturday was >wearing the most beautiful 1840s dress, perfect down to the print of >the fabric (at least, to my untrained eye). She is a member of h-costume. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 20:35:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB31Zs74024602 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:35:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB31TYTQ007955; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:29:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB31TXih009246; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:29:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB31T6ih009009 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:29:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip128.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.128]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1217C6A963 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:22:27 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:29:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor dresses/cartridge pleats Message-ID: <3FCCCBE7.9802.A8994EE@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FCD3988.30901@faucet.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If you've got a corset, tie your farthingale to it. Arnold > hypothesizes that this is what the eyelets are for in the bottom of > the corset in Patterns of Fashion. When I did this with mine, I > stopped having lower back pain. Tying the farthingale to the corset > distributes all the weight of the skirts throughout the torso and > shoulders (corset must have straps for this to work!). You can see > mine, with close-up photos of the ties and further exhortation on the > benefits to your back at > http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/under.html I've got my petticoats tied to the bottom of my corset, but it isn't quite enough to lift the weight of the skirt-back (especially the dresses which have trains) without the bumroll. > That way you can have bumroll or no bumroll without sacrificing your > back. I end up sending this to the list every other year or so, it > seems, so apologies to those who've seen it before. If back pain can > be avoided, I'm willing to repeat myself! Although some of us have been on the list for a donkey's age, if it can help someone it bears repeating. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 21:38:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB32c174024924 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:38:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB32a4TQ012898; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:36:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB32a2fj018563; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB32a0fj018541 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.69.4]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031203023558.SVUU23529.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:35:58 -0500 Message-ID: <023201c3b945$f76b6b40$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:33:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "Robin Netherton" > > Before you commit yourself, you might want to be aware that the woman in > the patterned gown is St. Barbara and not meant to be a realistic figure. > There is a very strong chance that her outfit would never have been worn > by a "real" woman and may have existed only as a costume in the artist's > studio, if that. Current fashion of this time is better represented by the > women donors lower in the picture. Drat! I had been under the impression that the lady in this picture was a donor. :-( This painting was part of a tryptich (sp?) as I recall. > Barbara's dress includes elements of several examples of older fashions, > mixed-and-matched. The fabric pattern is one you see on realistic dresses > of a few decades earlier, but those dresses were of quite different style > (usually V-necked overgowns). The element of an oversleeve pinned to a > short-sleeved laced-front fitted dress seems to have been a form of > informal wear earlier in the century, but I don't think I've seen an > example of that type of dress that included the fabric panel under the > lacing and over the bosom, which came into fashion a bit later as part of > another style. > > (snip) > If you want a 15th century use for that fabric, consider something a bit > earlier, such as this from 1449: > > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/c/christus/2/eligius.jpg I have on my hard-drive at least a couple more examples (from 1450 to 1480 or so) of this type of patterned fabric. One more gown similar to the first one I posted, worn by the Magdalen; one is a sideless sucote as worn by the paintings donor, two seem to be undergowns, and one just pinned on sleeves. My thought had been to pattern the construction on the gowns of the earlier part of the century, I had just been pleased to find fabric so similar to the paintings I have. :-) > That's on my personal wish list, and I had that image as the wallpaper on > my computer for a really long time. I've found similar black-and-gold > brocade fabric at a drapery store, but at $30/yard all I can do is gaze > fondly at the swatch I took home. :-( > > --Robin I know the feeling, I have a couple of paintings sitting in my computer that I have slowly been gathering the bits and pieces to make the actual garments. The other one on my list at the moment is the white gown in the Darmstadt Madonna. Sigh, too many outfits, not enough money.. Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 21:54:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB32sL74025041 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:54:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K5nTQ008444; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:05:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K5k2c008030; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:05:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K5C2c007437 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:05:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.150]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1K58GU007464 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:05:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031201120047.05951f00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 12:04:40 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Davenport (was Re: [h-cost] looking for mailman fabric In-Reply-To: <001301c3b844$c7064670$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> References: <4.3.1.2.20031201103619.058722a0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >It suddenly occurred to me how much I'd been >missing out on without the Davenport book in my library. That is a >*wonderful* book! (I can't find >the color plates either, Kayta, so maybe they are long gone from my copies >too.) Now you see why it's my favorite place to start. But I don't think my copy ever had the color plates. I found one edition that did, and the color was horribly off (using printing technology older than I am!). You're fine without them, and there are only 4, so no biggie. Mailman pants - can't you just buy some official ones, too big, and tailor them to fit? You'd certainly get the official fabric that way. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 21:55:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB32tI74025051 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:55:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1J31TQ000428; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1J2s8U006199; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:02:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1IuS8U029246 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:56:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.150]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Itmpj019703 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:55:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031201104456.058a17e0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:52:19 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dickens /Christmas/ Costuming In-Reply-To: <20031201144906.74217.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <1c4.1240d63f.2cf6443c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I've never been entirely sure what time period >Dickens covered. The costume approval person told me 1840 to 1864 (she thought my 1840 needed hoops!). The costume judges for the daily costume competition are allowing up to about 1870, in which year Dickens died. Fezziwigs is doing 1840 to not quite 1860, because we need to keep our hoops small on our small dance floor, but our Mr. Fezziwig wears much earlier, including knee breeches, as in the illustration of Fezziwig's Christmas party from Scrooge's youth. The Adventurer's Club is doing as late as Sherlock Holmes. Nobody is entirely sure what time period Dickens' Fair covers, but think hoop skirts and you can't go far wrong. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 21:56:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB32uN74025054 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:56:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Gk4TQ011887; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:46:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1Gk1Mv016427; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14001.mail.yahoo.com (web14001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1GjxMv016395 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:45:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031201164558.34072.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:45:58 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:45:58 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031201110332.N33359-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] FACETED GEMS on gowns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I want to say the will for the Countess of Shrewesbury dated 1588 mentioned a gown with table-cut sapphires to be given to Lady so and so who is probably a daughter in law. I don't have my genealogy resources here to back that up though. I stuck in my mind because I have a round table-cut sapphire. > Check out Tudor and Elizabethan Jewelry by Diana > Scarisbrick for lovely > closeups and descriptions of gems. > > Drea > > On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 ladysarafina@att.net wrote: > > > I'm working on a blue velvet tudor for 12th night > and my husband wants new > > pants also. I sewn all the jewels down along the > front of the neckline. I'll > > keep a photo diary and show the evolution of the > gown. > > > > Can anyone tell me if they had faceted gems/glass > cabochons in the 16th > > century? I know that they put pearls on their > necklines, but I'm trying to > > determine if putting faceted jewels on a dress is > a plausible 16th century > > decorative technique. > > > > Sarafina > > > > -- > > The Honourable Lady Sarafina Sinclair, CE, CW, APF > > http://ladysarafina.home.att.net > > > > ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 21:57:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB32v374025060 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:57:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1DCeTQ022477; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 06:12:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1DCcFO018494; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 06:12:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1DCZFO018406 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 06:12:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a250.in-tch.com [66.62.107.50]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hB1Cp8V08221 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 05:51:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FCB3EDE.85CD35C8@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 06:15:10 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] blue pigments (was Latest outfits) References: <200312010804.hB1843R17267@gw.retro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ahh...I hadn't thought of monitors. The two examples look almost identical to me, too. --sue Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > > > If you mean the color being worn by the woman in this picture: > > > > http://polaris.umuc.edu/~jthies/Tanya.gif > > > > That's not what I'm talking about here (I hate that particular dark-greenish > > teal, by the way, and the related brighter color that was so darn popular > > during the 1990s). > > > > I mean the "teal blue" color that Michaela's "Anne of Cleves" dress is: > > > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/cleves.htm > > > > To me, the "Anne of Cleves" dress is not a teal at all, but more of a > > turquoise blue--but this discussion started out referring to it as teal blue, > > and I was trying to stay consistent. :-) > > This might be a difference in monitors. I don't see a great deal of difference > between the dress colors in those two photos. The only place I see anything > resembling turquoise blue is the one shot on Michaela's page that's labeled > as FabricTest2. In that shot, it looks to me like the flash has caught the > sheen of the velvet and has overexposed the frame, making the color look > much lighter than it would otherwise. All the other photos, including ones > that look like they were taken in natural light, are darker and have a more > greenish cast. > (real turquoise of decent quality is _not_ greenish) > > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 > Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris > Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. > "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 21:57:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB32v376025060 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:57:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1DELTQ022611; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 06:14:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1DELFO019356; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 06:14:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [64.28.25.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1DEHFP019325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 06:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [127.0.0.1]) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB1DAVEP015948 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:10:31 +0100 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id hB1DAVTS015944 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:10:31 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: decna.com: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:10:31 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Viking dress from historiska.se, was Re: [h-cost] wondering In-Reply-To: <200311281141.44687.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 28 Nov 2003, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > Oh, Ingrid, thank you! I really didn't want to impose, but I do appreciate > having the extra information. Warning: another long one... :) You're all very welcome. :) The rest of the stuff is included at the bottom of this mail. I've been doing it in between other things at work so it may read a bit staccato at times... My comments in parentheses, as with the previous one. > You clearly know more Swedish than I do (since I "know" none, and am doing a > lot of guessing based on words with similar forms in both languages and > knowledge I've gleaned from other sources written in English). :-) My native language is Norwegian, which means that I can understand 99.9 of what I read in Swedish, although I couldn't write it correctly to save my life. :D The problem is translating between two languages which are not my own; it all boils down to passive vs. active vocabulary I guess, although it is much easier for me to write something from scratch in English than to translate things. I don't think I botched it too badly though. :) Marc made an excellent point about not taking these things for fact; for the record this is just meant as a help for those who don't read Swedish to see what the museum people wrote. They don't include as many references as I'd like and certainly there has to be a lot of guesswork, but this at least is what they present on the website (with possible errors owing to my translation). :) Here goes: Apron dress The viking age apron dress is an area of discussion among scholars of costume. Older research claims that the dresses that hang from the tortoise brooches only are separate pieces of cloth, linked at the sides with bands appriximately like a tabard. This reconstruction, however, is not likely, other that for those variatons that have two overlapping pieces (see below). Today it is thought that the most usual type of apron dress was sewed together at the sides, and had a tubular form that probably in many cases was shaped to the figure. This is suggested among other things by finds in Hedeby harbour. The dress that we show here comes before the later variand and is made from a hand woven wool in a broken lozenge twill. Our reconstrucion is geared towards the 10th century, but there is much to suggest that apron dresses of this period more often were made from linen than wool. Click the pictures for larger ones. The apron dress probably derives from the peplos of antiquity, which was made from two pieces of cloth fastened together at the shoulders. It is not likely that only one single type of apron dress has existed, but that different fashions have been prevalent at different times. Current research shows that the models that may have existed are a straight tubular model sewn together at the sides, a similar model shaped more to the figure that may be a bit later than the straight one, and a model that consists of two different pieces, one front and one back piece, that overlap and are fastened together with the tortoise brooches. All these, however, must be seen as qualified guesses since only fragments of viking age clothes have been found. The dress is held up with bands over the shoulders, which in their turn are fastened with the needle of the tortoise brooches. Metal oxidation preserves cloth, and it is at the back of tortoise brooches that almost all finds of textiles from the Birka graves have been found. The needle that is fastened to the back of the tortoise brooches is put through the small "eyelets" (of the shoulder band). The finds from Hedeby harbour are ones of a completely different kind than Birka. When boats were tarred, old worn pieces of clothing were used. After the pieces had been used, they were thrown into the water where it became buried in preserving mud, to be dug up again by archeologists a thousand years later. The material from Hedeby is interpreted as belonging to a middle class of society, while the Birka material is thought to be from the highest classes of the viking age. Yet more finds, from York, is considered by many to be from the lower classes. In fact it is not at all certain that viking age women would have worn apron dresses for everyday wear. It, and maybe also the tortoise brooches, may have been old-fashioned and only used for special occasions, a bit like we wear folk costume today. In correspondence with the coming of christendom, tortoise brooches are no longer found in graves. This may be because a more European medieval fashion became the norm, or perhaps it was no longer the custom to include them in the burials. Tortoise brooches, brooches and tools Tortoise brooches are perhaps among the most characteristic items from the viking age. They appear often in graves and are invariably cast in bronze. Like other tings, tortoise brooches are subject to fashions and whims, and they become more elaborate the further we come in time. There can also be seen clear differences between those of people of high status and those less well off, even though it is fairly certain that few if any poor persons wore this kind of brooch. It may even be that the brooches signal the status of "gårdhusfru" (I can't come up with a word for this; basically it is the woman who is in charge of the farm, which usually means that she is married to the man who owns it (or possibly it could be his mother)), i.e. the wife of an "odal" farmer. (The word odal, odel in Norwegian, means one who has the right to inherit the farm. Don't know the English word, sorry! Traditionally the oldest living son.) Quite a lot of power is usualy ascribed to these women since the men are supposed to have been away in viking raids part of the time. (I may be wrong about a nuance here, but it isn't costume related anyway... ;) ) Click the pictures for larger ones. Below are a pair of extant brooches that are displayed in the museum. (This is the text between the two pairs of brooches.) >From the tortoise brooches, one's tools, for example needlecase, keys and scissors (shears?), are suspended in a chain or thread. Here a pair of scissors are shown. (This is the text above the pic of scissors and the red dress) Below you can see extant scissors, and also other things that have been suspended from the brooches; a key and a needlecase. All these are exhibited at the museum. Oval brooches such as these are typical of women on the mainland. Finnish women wore round brooches, and on Gotland the brooches had the shape of animal heads. Necklaces Women often wore pearl necklaces when buried. When the body was cremated, the necklaces were in many cases added afterwards, and are undisturbed today. The strand of pearls shown below also has a cross attatched. We don't know today whether this actually means that she was a Christian, or that she believed in both pagan and Christian gods, or if someone else put it there after she died. (It sounds here as if the reconstruction is closely based on an actual find, but they don't include any references unfortunately.) According to current research ther is much to suggest that many people were "both" pagan and Christian, and that this was accepted because the views on "belonging to" a religion were perhaps less dogmatic than today. Shoes This pair of shoes, or "kängor" (a word for boots) which shoes that extend beyond the ankle are called, are called "Osebergskänga" after a find in the Oseberg ship from the 9th century. They have a boat-shaped sole, with points both at the front and back - a typical viking age feature. Click the pictures for larger ones. The straps are pulled around the leg and then tied. The exact construction is not likely to be found out, since they were not found fastened to a foot but loose among the grave goods. The viking age shoes are often made with a seam straight over the front part. This is a solutionthat simplifies construction; a shoe is much easier to turn (they are made inside-out) if the front part is open. What is she wearing over (the other clothes)? In contrast to contemporary European women, the viking age woman (strange distinction - the age is surely the same all over Europe at the same time ;) but I don't like to call it viking woman, since viking is something you do not something you are...) wore a coat which is open in front. It is closed with a single brooch, for example a trefoil brooch. Click the pictures for larger ones. Trefoil brooch: To keep the coat closed in front, a so-called trefoil brooch such as this, or other variations such as the large round ones or "likarmade" (no idea of the English word; pictures can be found here: http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/artikel.asp?id=10731) was used in Mälardalen (a place). Vikings from Gotland once again stick out with their "dosformiga" (ditto with the translation problem; picture here: http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/artikel.asp?id=10226), which indicates that the cultural identity was different from that on the mainland. Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 22:03:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB333c74025135 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:03:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3330TQ015000; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB332vl8005601; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:02:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB332tl8005535 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:02:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from 0020830266 (12-248-149-36.client.attbi.com[12.248.149.36]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <20031203030249112000vk7ce> (Authid: ladysarafina@att.net); Wed, 3 Dec 2003 03:02:49 +0000 Message-ID: <006301c3b949$d6a38e20$2495f80c@attbi.com> From: "Sarafina Sinclair" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031202150154.F53911-100000@shell.siscom.net> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:02:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1123 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1123 Subject: [h-cost] half farthingale description LONG X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, My head is in a spin because I have been reading and re-reading the section in QEWU about farthingales and I am simply blown away. When I proposed that the half farthingale was possibly the bumroll I was heading in the right direction. It seems too easy though, so I am going to present the info for you all to see and discuss. I've been reading QEWU and I found a description of the half farthingale. Robert Sibthorpe was the Queens farthingale maker. He was responsible for constructing and altering the Queen's farthingales with the changing fashion as well as repairing them. The half farthingale was worn with a roll of cotton used to support the fullness of the skirt. Perhaps this roll of cotton is the infamous bumroll. The description is in QEWU page 198. "The first reference to a half farthingale appears in 1580 when Sibthorpe is entered 'for fower severall tymes translatinge and styffenynge of a half verthingale of watchett and strawe colour taphata'. This presumably gave width at the sides and back leaving the front skirt flat. Perhaps this evolved from the farthingale 'such as is now used by the French Queen and the Queen of Navarre', sent to Elizabeth by Amyas Paulet in 1577. Some half farthingales were worn with a padded roll tied below the waist to support the fullness of the skirt, thus enlarging the hips. Sibthorpe made 'a half verthingale and a rolle of oringe tawnye & watchett damaske stuffed with cotten woll whale bone & bent' -- and there are several other entries -- in 1581. After this the rolls are entered separately; typical entries include 'making two Rolles of yellowe buckeram with whales bone' in 1585, 'making of thre rolles of hollande clothe with wyers bounde with reben' later in the same year and 'making of a Rolle of starched buckeram with wales bone' in 1586. Descriptions do not always make the distinction between farthingale and sleeve rolls, although pairs of rolls would seem to be for sleeves, and are usually made by the tailor." (as opposed to the fathingale maker) When I wore my bumroll and modern hoop skirt together it looked ok, but it wasn't until I had a farthingale made from the Alcega pattern that I got a truly period line to my skirts (flatter in the front and fuller in the back). I will take pictures and post them to my site to illustrate the difference. I wonder if this answers the bumroll question or not. What do you all think? Sarafina ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- The Honourable Lady Sarafina Sinclair, CE, CW, APF http://ladysarafina.home.att.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor dresses/cartridge pleats > > > Bumrolls are another area of controversy. Some people say that they > > were not worn with any sort of hoop, while others say that they could > > be worn with a hoop. And they don't show up in the inventories (but > > then, neither do other common things like shirts and smocks. It's > > like the things which are not made of silk, velvet or other rich > > fabric don't get mentioned very often at all.) Personally, I've found > > that the dress has far less pull on my shoulders (because it > > distributes the weight of the skirt over the hips, which petticoats > > and hoops do not do) if I use a small bumroll at the very back. It > > also helps keep the line of the back more similar to the Holbein back > > view. > > In Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts of the 1560s & 1570s, I've come across > numerous mentions of "french" gowns (i.e., fitted bodice sewn to gathered > skirt) having both heavy wool and buckram pleated into the pleats to help > them stand out, as well as small rolls stitched to the pleats. The first > reference I've found to a roll mentioned separate from a gown is 1580. > > I experimented with padding pleats in the farthingale I'm currently > making. I sandwiched a piece of buckram between two layers of thick wool, > stitched it to the back waistline of the taffeta farthingale, and > box-pleated all layers together. It took some tough stitching, but the > result is very pleasing--the back of the farthingale stands out for all > the world as if there were a small bumroll beneath it. > > Drea > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 22:15:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB33Fv74025221 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:15:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB33CHTQ015708; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:12:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB33CGl8010948; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:12:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB33CDl8010910 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:12:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-42-039.jps.net ([209.165.42.39] helo=pavilion) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ARNQy-0001Do-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:12:12 -0800 Message-ID: <000901c3b94c$27a6c600$272aa5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031127013156.0502aa30@mail.frys.com> <002501c3b4cd$22c3f9b0$98614ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The history of swimwear...... Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:18:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The book is called "A Short Introduction for to Learn to Swimme Gathered out of Master Digbies Booke of the Art of Swimming and translated into English for the better instruction of those who understand not the Latine tongue." It's by Christopher Middleton and published in London in 1595. The book is just over forty pages and full of illustrations. A couple pages can be found for a short time at http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/Bulletinboard.htm What's curious is that it seems at a quick blance that the woodcut illustrations must have a replaceable center where the vertical lines are and the center is switched to illustrate the different strokes. There are about three backgrounds that are used and the swimmer changes in each one. Clever! Cheers, Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 1:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The history of swimwear...... > >Today I > >noticed a book on learning to swim from the EEBO collection > > What was the book please ? > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 2 22:58:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB33wo74025495 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:58:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB33wATQ019073; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:58:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB33w7jR006254; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:58:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from eurus.primus.ca (mail.tor.primus.ca [216.254.136.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB33w4jS006217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:58:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsl-207-112-122-51.tor.primus.ca ([207.112.122.51] helo=DHoffryn) by eurus.primus.ca with smtp (Exim 3.36 #3) id 1ARO9L-0007DQ-0A for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:58:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c3b951$aa8b47d0$2101a8c0@DHoffryn> From: "Joanna Hobbins" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031127013156.0502aa30@mail.frys.com> <002501c3b4cd$22c3f9b0$98614ed5@your1p37d9kihs> <000901c3b94c$27a6c600$272aa5d1@pavilion> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:58:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] pattern book of sorts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I've just come across a series of four volumes called "Documents pour le costume de theatre" produced by l'ufoléa ligue française de l'enseignment. Volume 1 is the middle ages, volume 2 the renaissance and 3 and 4 are 17th and 18th centuries. They are a series of unbound pages of costume patterns organized into groups - noble, peasent, military, religious et and a couple of booklets describing the research, accessories, hairstyles. They appear to be from the 60s. Has anyone ever heard of them? My french is a bit rusty and I'm trying to decide whether or not it is worth the effort to decipher them. I know these are designed for the theater, but I wondering if the patterns might be a good base to start from, or if i should just draft patterns from scratch. cheers, Joanna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 00:13:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB35Di74026091 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 00:13:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB35C0TQ023944; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB35BtHo015645; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:11:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB35BpHp015609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:11:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB35DUUZ006545 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 00:13:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB35DTte006543 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 00:13:29 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 00:13:29 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200312012328.hB1NS8XF002874@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20031202071354.02f51348@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031202071354.02f51348@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312030013.29561.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 02 December 2003 05:11 pm, Brenda Bell wrote: > Kat wrote: > >I'm with you! I rarely wore a bra, mostly because I couldn't find > >ones that fit around my ribcage (I'm at my largest I've ever been and > >still only need a size 32" band size... > > To which Cathy Raymond responded: > >I can find bras in ordinary stores in 32A; Victoria's Secret also carries > >them. (I'm wearing a VS model as I type this, in fact). It's just a bit > >harder to find them because stores stock fewer bras in small sizes.... > > Most of my college years, I was a 34D or a 32DD. I'm pretty sure I *used* > to see band sizes going down to 30". I've seen band sizes as low as 28, but 28 anything is rare, as is 30; 32 is the smallest size I've typically found in specialty shops and department stores (which is why I hope my breasts never get any smaller! Of course, if they do, maybe my need for a bra would be academic.) :-) [snip] [says Brenda] > I'm with Dianne and Sue. I failed the "pencil test" from the very > beginning... at least since back when I was an "A" cup in 6th Grade. I was > to the point where I'd wear bras to sleep because I felt I was flopping > around _that_ much. (BTW, I "grew" pretty quickly: I went from trainer > bras at age 10 to a D cup at age 14 or 15, and have never been "smaller" > than that...) Wow. Maybe this is a "breast firmness" issue, dictated by genetics more than anything else? -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 01:02:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB362K74026321 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 01:02:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB361fTQ027207; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 23:01:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB361dRe010559; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 23:01:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB361bRe010518 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 23:01:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-64-165-71-236.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@64.165.71.236 with plain) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2003 06:01:31 -0000 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:01:56 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3FCC6F6B.7591.92052F0@localhost> Message-Id: <3361FBCC-2556-11D8-8768-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > That's true to a certain extent, but people with large breasts will > usually end up with much smaller ones when they lose body fat. Once > you drop below about a certain percentage of body fat, the breasts > can reduce pretty quickly. Boy do they ever. During the Great Weight Loss of 1999, after a particularly painful breakup in which I can't consciously remember having eaten for 2 weeks straight, I went from my healthy weight of 97 lbs (I'm 4'11 and small boned) to 83 lbs. In bra sizes, I went from a 34 C to a 32 A. I hadn't been that small since I was 13 or so. Clothing sizes went from a healthy size 2 to a size 00/girl's size 10. NOTE: I looked like death. Rapid weight loss like that was frightening and I got myself to my doctor the moment I noticed what was happening. I was put on all kinds of protein shakes and whatnot and eventually I began putting on weight and my boobs inflated once more (they went from nice and perky to shriveled looking... God, it was horrible!). My skin was *gray*, I kid you not. It was not attractive in any way, shape or form. I've since put on all the old weight plus about 15 more lbs, so I'm actually pushing the opposite end of the weight spectrum for my size and body type now. And my boobs? 34 D's, now. Not that anyone is complaining... ;) Obligatory Costume Content: I've got plans for a full Tudor outfit using only supporting kirtles like the ones the More girls are wearing in Holbein's portrait of Sir Thomas More and his family. The goal is to get the proper flat shape on an otherwise curvy body without resorting to corsetry. After I finish the 1880's polonaise project, however... Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 03:11:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB38B574020575 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 03:11:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB389oTQ004590; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 01:09:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB389lHv016677; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 01:09:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB389iHv016645 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 01:09:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-98-11.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.98.11]) 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id APE00434; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:09:41 GMT Message-ID: <027b01c3b975$92340220$a8674ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FCCC231.15148.A63A94A@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:15:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Actually, some of them are fertile. Please explain given they are not menstruating ? >And some of the information I've seen tends to show that although it is for different reasons (starvation as opposed to excess exercise), women from the middle ages may not have bred as quickly as an age matched cohort from now. Again if you have a reference for this I'd be grateful. You are suggesting (I think) by bred as quickly that they did not get pregnant in as few months as they same age person now ? I'm not sure how this could be established ? >Not modern SW USA genotype but pre-contact the people developed what the scientists are calling the "thrifty gene." Ah OK >It's difficult to explain but this article can explain what I'm talking about far better than I can: http://www.pbs.org/saf/1110/features/fighting.htm Thanks >In the overall Americans, this is probably the case (combined with too much time sitting in front of a telly instead of playing outside.) However, the example of the Pimas that I'm talking about goes far beyond that. (There are tons of articles about this. If you google Pima+Obesity you get more articles on the subject than you'd want to ever see.) OK I'll take a look >I think that you'd have to look at where they are doing their HG. If you are talking about food rich areas (such as in Africa), they are going to have an easier time of it than in other areas. Well most of my experiance tends to be European, but it is a interesting factor >I don't know why skeletally (which I think you mean by sketally) Yep it was late here :) >you would necessarily be able to tell. If there are certain types of wear patterns on the bones or muscle attachments you could but there are other reasons why it might be the case, but levels of obesity vs normal weight would be difficult to tell. Agreed in general , which I think I said somewhere, unless their is a weight related diesease present that alters the skeleton, the monks being the most often cited examples >Could you give me some references? All of my forensic books talk about being able to reconstruct if they know if the person was emaciated, normal or obese but say that they can't tell from looking at the bones themselves which it was. Sure I'll try and dig some out >Yes, and when the diet changes completely (such as when Pima people are put on "normal" American diets), they fatten far faster than the general population. Yes that follows and is seen in other rapid change over societies But we are rather drifting off costume here ! :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 09:20:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3EKv74021977 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:20:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3EKFTQ024149; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:20:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3EK4mV001519; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:20:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3EJwmV001396 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:19:53 -0500 Message-ID: <92DF5C18C876894A927DEEC117C15ABA95AC@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:19:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] RE: twins- separated at birth? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My first thought was he and Percy must have switched clothes. I never understood how Percy could stand wearing that high collar in the second season. And now I'm going to have to go back and watch some episodes again. I've got almost all of them except for the 4th season (didn't like it as much) and the Christmas/time traveling episode. Bjorn Arnaldsson > > Anybody here seen "Blackadder"? I think Rowan Atkinson missed a bet.. > > http://ladysarafina.home.att.net/1582_Infanta_Catalina_Michael > a_of_Austr > ia_by_Coello.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 09:57:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3Evc74022063 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:57:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3EuvTQ026473; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:56:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3Euicx026022; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:56:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3EuZcx025893 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:56:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hB3EuX2s019524 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:56:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031203093705.00b54610@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 09:56:37 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown In-Reply-To: <01c901c3b90f$da234b60$cb6afea9@shooie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey all... hey Sheridan I've been digging into this area recently myself... btw, nice fabric score. My first question is do you want to make the gown on the Saint? or a standard kirtle from the mid 1450's Flanders? For cutting, you're right 10 gore is not accurate for this time period. I would use a 4 piece bodice - because the shaping of the bodice is so much simpler with the extra seam... Also because artwork from the time period featuring similar kirtles show center back seams. Van Der Weyden "the Sacraments" for example. Also the Czech mural "the Birth of the Virgin" Also, for the Flemish kirtles, there are many examples of waist seams. Van Der Weyden "The Deposition" for example. Also archeological examples from London (MOL-textiles) support a waist seam post 1400. (after all we are talking about the "tailoring revolution" period here ; > ) During this time period, skirts were cut in _many_ different ways. Pretty much choose something fairly sensible, and you'll be able to find some precedent. Cuts I have seen include: many flared panels; Mary of Hungary's; long front panes gathered at the side and rear, rectangles. On the Saint... there isn't a waist seam depicted... which would simplify pattern questions, but maybe not tailoring. For the sleeves... you could go two ways... Raglan construction if you are just going for the generic kirtle of the mid 1450's Flanders, or if you are looking specifically at the Saint's gown, then a arm fitted into the armsyce. And I have to admit the place that I finally figured out sleeves was from a patterning book from the 40s. But! The Medieval Tailor's Assistant appears to have pretty good directions... you might look there. Good luck, and I'd love to see the finished product. Bridgette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 10:44:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3Fim74022215 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:44:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3Fi7TQ029976; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3FhpMp007355; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:43:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3FhjMp007237 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:43:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14b125.directcon.net [209.79.208.125]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hB3FlFW04889; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:47:16 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031203074052.00c6a160@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 07:40:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume , "Historical Costume" From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern book of sorts In-Reply-To: <000b01c3b951$aa8b47d0$2101a8c0@DHoffryn> References: <4.3.1.2.20031127013156.0502aa30@mail.frys.com> <002501c3b4cd$22c3f9b0$98614ed5@your1p37d9kihs> <000901c3b94c$27a6c600$272aa5d1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1156; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You may have quite a find here. These sound like they may be the same volumes I saw this weekend at an antiquarian book dealer's, with a selling price of $650! Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 11:15:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3GF974022309 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:15:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3GEKTQ004030; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:14:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3GEBn9006959; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:14:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from notus.primus.ca (mail.tor.primus.ca [216.254.136.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3GAunA004015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:11:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsl-207-112-122-51.tor.primus.ca ([207.112.122.51] helo=DHoffryn) by notus.primus.ca with smtp (Exim 3.36 #3) id 1ARZaN-0008Jq-0A for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:10:48 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c3b9b8$0409ad90$2101a8c0@DHoffryn> From: "Joanna Hobbins" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031127013156.0502aa30@mail.frys.com> <002501c3b4cd$22c3f9b0$98614ed5@your1p37d9kihs> <000901c3b94c$27a6c600$272aa5d1@pavilion> <3.0.6.32.20031203074052.00c6a160@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern book of sorts Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:10:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-DCC-SINECTIS-Metrics: net.indra.com 1114; bulk Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=469 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Unfortunately they belong to McGill University :( Joanna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margo Anderson" To: "Historical Costume" ; "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern book of sorts > You may have quite a find here. These sound like they may be the same > volumes I saw this weekend at an antiquarian book dealer's, with a selling > price of $650! > > Margo > > > > > "One Tough Costumer" > > www.margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 11:54:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3Gs474022428 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:54:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3GrHTQ009075; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:53:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3GrBkP016217; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:53:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav35.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3Gr5kP015996 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:52:59 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav35.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:52:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031127013156.0502aa30@mail.frys.com><002501c3b4cd$22c3f9b0$98614ed5@your1p37d9kihs><000901c3b94c$27a6c600$272aa5d1@pavilion> <000b01c3b951$aa8b47d0$2101a8c0@DHoffryn> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern book of sorts Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:52:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2003 16:52:59.0669 (UTC) FILETIME=[E878BC50:01C3B9BD] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I've just come across a series of four volumes called "Documents pour le > costume de theatre" produced by l'ufoléa ligue française de l'enseignment. McGill, you say? Like... McGill in Montreal? That's great :-) Do you live in the area? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 13:47:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3IlE74022750 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:47:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3IhmTQ021858; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:43:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3IhiCk009226; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:43:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3IcOOY004716 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:38:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip30.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.30]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB096F57C for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:38:19 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:38:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown Message-ID: <3FCDBD1A.15484.E37F604@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <023201c3b945$f76b6b40$cb6afea9@shooie> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Drat! I had been under the impression that the lady in this picture > was a donor. :-( This painting was part of a tryptich (sp?) as I > recall. You can tell that it is not a donor by the iconography. Notice what she holds in her hands. Those are her identifying symbols. The kneeling ladies are more like the donors in terms of dress. Also, if you time match the dresses to others from the same time, the kneeling people are wearing what you see in a lot of other paintings which aren't confusing in their iconography, whereas St. Barbara's dress doesn't truly match any one outfit (as Robin has explained in a more detailed fashion.) > I have on my hard-drive at least a couple more examples (from 1450 to > 1480 or so) of this type of patterned fabric. One more gown similar to > the first one I posted, worn by the Magdalen; one is a sideless sucote > as worn by the paintings donor, two seem to be undergowns, and one > just pinned on sleeves. My thought had been to pattern the > construction on the gowns of the earlier part of the century, I had > just been pleased to find fabric so similar to the paintings I have. > :-) Sideless surcoats are a tricky item. You might exam them a little more carefully to make sure that they are truly donors and not another saint. (I'm sure Robin can explain that one in more detail too.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 13:54:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3Ist74022767 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:54:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3IqrTQ023349; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:52:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3IqdCk019989; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:52:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3IqVCk019821 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:52:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip30.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.30]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D6F66FF61 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:31:54 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:31:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Message-ID: <3FCDBB97.28423.E320E7B@localhost> Priority: normal References: <6.0.0.22.0.20031202071354.02f51348@earthlink.net> In-reply-to: <200312030013.29561.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Maybe this is a "breast firmness" issue, dictated by genetics more > than anything else? That could very well be. But the original point was that the breasts in art could be realistic as there are people who do have that shape even now. What we can't say is that all of them were that way, anymore than we can say none of them could be that way based on our own bodies. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 14:39:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3Jdb74022922 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:39:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3JbOTQ028819; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:37:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3JbKL2005535; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:37:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40110.mail.yahoo.com (web40110.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB3JbGL2005391 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:37:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031203193710.43042.qmail@web40110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.11.109] by web40110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:37:10 PST Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:37:10 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] a bit off topic- rotary blade sharpeners? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I use my rotary cutter often and go through quite a few blades (especially in winter when my fabrics are heaviest) I saw a roatary blade sharpener in a local sewing supply store and wondered if they work well? I'd love to find another way to cut corners so I could by more trim *gasp!* Thanks, Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 14:55:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3Jt474023025 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:55:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3Jr3TQ000523; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:53:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3JqwL2020513; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:52:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3JqsL3020356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:52:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB3JpJPX029911 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:51:19 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 14:51:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FCE3F51.2000407@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 14:53:53 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] a bit off topic- rotary blade sharpeners? References: <20031203193710.43042.qmail@web40110.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031203193710.43042.qmail@web40110.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO me wrote: > I saw a roatary blade sharpener in a local sewing supply store and wondered if they work well? I've seen the sharpeners for sale in the Clothilde catalog , if you want to compare prices. If you're not familiar with this company, please do the following: 1: Before checking out their website, take your credit cards, and put them in a bowl of water. 2: Put the bowl in the freezer. 3: Wait 5 hours. Then go and peruse the website. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Baby t-shirts with medieval baby image -- great for your favorite Midwinter Holiday present. http://www.virtue.to/store/ (other stuff too!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 14:55:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3Jta74023029 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:55:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3JrWTQ000654; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:53:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3JrWL2020988; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:53:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3JqwL2020502 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01482 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:19:11 -0600 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:19:11 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown In-Reply-To: <023201c3b945$f76b6b40$cb6afea9@shooie> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Sheridan & Shane wrote: > Drat! I had been under the impression that the lady in this picture > was a donor. :-( This painting was part of a tryptich (sp?) as I > recall. The Moreel triptych, if my memory is right. I saw this one in Bruges, at the Groeninge Museum, which is probably the single best collection in the world if you're interested in 15th c. paintings of Flemish dress. (OK, maybe the Museum of Ancient Art in Brussels could top it.) A pretty typical triptych format is to have a devotional scene in the middle (say, a crucifixion) and the donors on the wings, with the donors accompanied by their patron saints (often standing behind the kneeling donor). In this one, without going back to look it up, I'd guess the men of the family are on the left wing with one saint, and the women on the right wing with another, in this case Barbara. > I have on my hard-drive at least a couple more examples (from 1450 to > 1480 or so) of this type of patterned fabric. One more gown similar to > the first one I posted, worn by the Magdalen; one is a sideless sucote > as worn by the paintings donor, two seem to be undergowns, and one > just pinned on sleeves. My thought had been to pattern the > construction on the gowns of the earlier part of the century, I had > just been pleased to find fabric so similar to the paintings I have. That fabric does show up with some regularity. I'd love to know the sites on your examples, just to make sure I have the same ones somewhere in my collection. You'll find that sort of fabric on some "real" people, such as the woman in the goldsmith shop I cited earlier (Petrus Christus, St. Eligius depicted as a goldsmith). But you'll also find it on a lot of saints and other allegorical/religious figures. Your Magdalen will be one example -- and bear in mind that often Magdalen is shown in deliberately over-the-top or "exotic" or "foreign" clothing, particularly by the second half of the 15th century, so there will likely be lots of cool bits to her outfit that would never have been seen on the street or in court. The sideless surcotes will be more troublesome for you. By the early 1400s, they tend to show up only on women in the royal family, and typically in ceremonial circumstances; by the mid-1400s they appear to be artistic code for "queen" and appear almost exclusively on (1) royalty in ceremonial presentation, (2) royal saints, or (3) situations in which a woman is depicted symbolically in "queen's dress." So you might indeed have a donor in a sideless surcote, but the donor in such a case will almost certainly be a queen or duchess (and if she isn't, I definitely want to know about it), and the surcote will be code for her rank, not necessarily a garment she would own or wear. If the surcoted woman is standing behind a donor, she's almost certainly a saint, and I'd predict at least a 75% chance that she's Catherine, with a lesser chance of Barbara, Helena, or Ursula. Send me the cites and I'll let you know who you've got, assuming I have the images in my collection. (The above paragraph blows the punch line of one of my best lectures, as those of you who have heard me speak about surcotes will know ;-) ) Of course, depending on your purpose, there's no reason you *can't* dress up as a saint, if it's acceptable in your circumstances to be wearing medieval fantasy costume. It's darn pretty. I wouldn't suggest it for an SCA competition, though, because it's probably not safe to speculate that the saints' dresses ever existed. They can be used with caution for guidance on certain elements, but only after you've got enough familiarity with iconographic code to be able to sift out the symbolic bits and correlate what's left with non-iconographic representations. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 15:16:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3KGw74023102 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:16:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3KEiTQ002915; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:14:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3KEgGZ012609; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:14:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3KEcGZ012434 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:14:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.127.135.58 ([204.127.135.58]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <200312032014301120007qdbe>; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:14:30 +0000 Received: from [12.72.230.113] by 204.127.135.58; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 20:14:30 +0000 From: mmcnealy@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] a bit off topic- rotary blade sharpeners? Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 20:14:30 +0000 Message-Id: <120320032014.11500.5b6e@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: bW1jbmVhbHlAYXR0Lm5ldA== X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia, That method only works if you don't have your CC #'s memorized from doing lots of online shopping, if you do its a lost cause. ;) Yes, I buy way too much online, the Postal Lady always delievers the packages to the door with a "See you've been shopping online again, get anything good?" -Marion > If you're not familiar with this company, please do the following: > 1: Before checking out their website, take your credit cards, and put > them in a bowl of water. > 2: Put the bowl in the freezer. > 3: Wait 5 hours. Then go and peruse the website. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 15:33:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3KX574023186 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:33:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3KSETQ004544; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:28:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3KSAGZ025858; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:28:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3KS1GZ025623 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:28:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 389F01B3AC2 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:25:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 12887-02 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:25:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E3B71B392E for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:25:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <028401c3b9db$edba6ce0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <120320032014.11500.5b6e@att.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] a bit off topic- rotary blade sharpeners? Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:27:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- > Yes, I buy way too much online, the Postal Lady always delievers the packages > to the door with a "See you've been shopping online again, get anything > good?" > > -Marion The ONLY thing that saves me is that I don't use credit cards. Still, the mailman brings a lot of priority mail packages up to my door! (ebay is my friend!) I got my wool from eBay today too. It's lovely..very light weight and soft, beautiful forest green color. Some of it is going to be an apron dress for a Viking-themed event next spring, not sure what I will do with the rest yet. Probably t-tunics for my boys. I like to have them all in the same color, it makes them easier to keep track of! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 15:42:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3Kgh74023242 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:42:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3KflTQ005910; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:41:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3KfiGZ009270; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:41:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3KfdGa009019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:41:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB3Ke5PX030149 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:40:05 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:40:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FCE4ABF.1030400@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:42:39 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > You'll find that sort of fabric on some "real" people, such as the woman > in the goldsmith shop I cited earlier (Petrus Christus, St. Eligius > depicted as a goldsmith) The Chicago Institute of Art has some actual fabric much like this in their ecclesiastic collection, from the 15th century. I saw it. It's keen. Gold cord ground with deep blue velvet in the appropriate spots. I wrote up what I saw when I was there; more description (but no photos of the fabric, alas) at http://www.virtue.to/articles/real_fabrics.html -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Baby t-shirts with medieval baby image -- great for your favorite Midwinter Holiday present. http://www.virtue.to/store/ (other stuff too!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 15:58:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3Kwx74024183 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:58:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3Kt4Tk007428; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:57:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3KkLGZ014099; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:46:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3KkDGZ013965 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:46:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.68.194]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031203204611.KEAC23529.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:46:11 -0500 Message-ID: <002601c3b9de$3f827b60$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:21:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of projects to do someday, this is the picture I have had on my computer as wallpaper for the past year or so. That has to be one of the most interesting hats! http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/unknown/p-unknown4.htm Any guesses as to the gown she is wearing? There is a dress in the Unicorn tapestries which is similar at the shoulders, but I thought those gowns were likely fictional.. Sheridan <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ...it is well known that a vital ingredient of success is not knowing that what you're attempting can't be done. Terry Pratchett (Equal Rites) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 16:25:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3LPb74024256 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:25:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3LOETQ011019; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:24:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3LOC4P023322; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:24:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3LNH4P022470 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:23:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip30.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.30]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3240C6FE0B for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:23:16 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:23:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy Message-ID: <3FCDE3C3.7893.ECEF8B5@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002601c3b9de$3f827b60$cb6afea9@shooie> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Speaking of projects to do someday, this is the picture I have had on > my computer as wallpaper for the past year or so. That has to be one > of the most interesting hats! > > http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/unknown/p-unknown4.htm Despite the attribution right there on the painting (which were sometimes added during the 18th or 19th C), this looks to me like a Magdalene. It appears to be cut down from a larger panel, such that the object in her hand (which looks like a type of unguent jar) would have been easier to identify since it would have been whole. Or if it was Marie of Burgundy, she may have been portrayed as Magdalene (like for a masque.) > Any guesses as to the gown she is wearing? There is a dress in the > Unicorn tapestries which is similar at the shoulders, but I thought > those gowns were likely fictional.. This could also be fictional (the dress and the headgear.) The headgear looks to me like a 15th C European's idea of what a middle eastern woman would wear. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 16:42:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3LgN74024300 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:42:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3LfJTQ013049; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:41:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3LfH4P010615; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:41:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3LfD4P010488 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:41:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0E02425CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:48:14 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FCE5A09.6030608@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:47:53 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] a bit off topic- rotary blade sharpeners? References: <20031203193710.43042.qmail@web40110.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031203193710.43042.qmail@web40110.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO me wrote: > I use my rotary cutter often and go through quite a few blades (especially in winter when my fabrics are heaviest) I saw a roatary blade sharpener in a local sewing supply store and wondered if they work well? I'd love to find another way to cut corners so I could by more trim *gasp!* Thanks, Angelique Reviews are mixed. If you look in some of the quilting discussion groups (rec.crafts.textiles.quilting comes to mind) you'll find people who love them and people who don't think they are so hot. Personally, I am willing to live with a nicked blade for quite a while and either just run the cutter over that bit again or use thread snips to cut the one thread that didn't get sliced with the cutter. Like scissors, I keep a separate cutter for paper projects (usually with my old fabric blades). You can also sometimes find blades (by makers other than Olfa) in hardware stores cheaper than sewing shops. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 16:42:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3Lgt74024305 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:42:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3LfpTQ013108; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:41:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3Lfn4P011144; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:41:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3Lfj4P011061 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:41:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7FFD37572 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:40:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1ARejs-00013p-00 for ; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:40:52 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] a bit off topic- rotary blade sharpeners? In-Reply-To: <120320032014.11500.5b6e@att.net> References: <120320032014.11500.5b6e@att.net> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:40:52 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marion wrote: > That method only works if you don't have your CC #'s memorized from doing > lots of online shopping, if you do its a lost cause. ;) > > Yes, I buy way too much online, the Postal Lady always delievers the packages > to the door with a "See you've been shopping online again, get anything > good?" Yup, what she said :) Luckily my Uniquely You dress form arrived today, so I am sated for now. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 17:26:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3MQX74024456 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:26:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3MNOTQ019698; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:23:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3MNFFI024531; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:23:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3MN7FI024379 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:23:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02503 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:49:18 -0600 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:49:18 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy In-Reply-To: <002601c3b9de$3f827b60$cb6afea9@shooie> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Sheridan & Shane wrote: > Speaking of projects to do someday, this is the picture I have had on > my computer as wallpaper for the past year or so. That has to be one > of the most interesting hats! > > http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/unknown/p-unknown4.htm > > Any guesses as to the gown she is wearing? There is a dress in the > Unicorn tapestries which is similar at the shoulders, but I thought > those gowns were likely fictional.. Good catch. This one, in my considered opinion, is fictional too, or at least makes use of certain "exotic" elements designed to signal that This Is Not A Real Person. The arrangement of the trim bandings on the bodice is a partial clue, but the screamingly obvious tipoff is the combination of the ointment jar and the turban: We are looking at Mary Magdalene. The ointment jar is her attribute, and the turban (particularly as shown here, mixed with more recognizable European headdress elements) is a standard "exotic/foreign" label used for Magdalen and certain other Biblical women. And I've seen at least three or four other paintings that show the Magdalen's hair coming out of the top of a headdress in a ponytail, as it does here. Yes, I know it says Mary of Burgundy at the top. That may or may not be accurate, as often such labels are added long after the painting is made. If it is indeed a portrait of Mary of Burgundy, it's Mary presented as the Magdalen. This isn't as strange as it sounds: I have at least six or seven examples from the late 1400s and early 1500s of women posing as the Magdalen, complete with jar. Mary Magdalen was an extremely popular saint, second only to the Virgin Mary. She also tended to be portrayed in artwork of this time as sexy, exotic, and fancily dressed. So apparently it wasn't unusual for women to have their portraits painted as her; I would guess that it gave them the excuse to be portrayed in Really Flashy Stuff while still being respectable. Now I need to find a copy of this in a book so I can photograph it (since I'm not likely to be in France anytime soon). This is an absolute must-have for the "Magdalen as Fashion Plate" section of my talk on saint's clothing. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 18:32:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3NWE74024597 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:32:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3NTZTQ028426; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:29:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3NTS2x001098; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:29:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav46.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB3NTJ2x000874 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:29:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:29:13 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav46.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:29:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <120320032014.11500.5b6e@att.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] a bit off topic- rotary blade sharpeners? Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:28:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2003 23:29:13.0257 (UTC) FILETIME=[42A26190:01C3B9F5] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Cynthia, > That method only works if you don't have your CC #'s memorized from doing > lots of online shopping, if you do its a lost cause. ;) That's why it doesn't work for me... > Yes, I buy way too much online, the Postal Lady always delievers the packages > to the door with a "See you've been shopping online again, get anything > good?" When it's my mother answering the door, the postal guy always looks around to see if a bouncing girl is not about to appear around the corner :-) (He still remembers when I got my first set of Margo's... I was going boiing, boiiing, boiiing around the house... he must have thought he had a great job that day, making people THAT happy :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 20:47:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB41ll74024946 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:47:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB41YmTQ009045; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:34:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB41Yj5p006568; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:34:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB41Yg5p006519 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:34:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPC00MDDKDQQG@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 17:34:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 17:33:31 -0800 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031203173213.00b0dac8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] another eBay find X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For those looking for it, Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd is up on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3571157070&category=29331 It is a great book, and no I am not selling my copy. Just thought I would share. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 20:53:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB41rD74024964 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:53:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB41qJTQ010104; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:52:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB41qI5p017145; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:52:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB41qE5q017118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:52:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB41ruUZ008529 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:53:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB41ruxO008527 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:53:56 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:53:55 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <6.0.0.22.0.20031202071354.02f51348@earthlink.net> <3FCDBB97.28423.E320E7B@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FCDBB97.28423.E320E7B@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312032053.55929.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 03 December 2003 01:31 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Maybe this is a "breast firmness" issue, dictated by genetics more > > than anything else? > > That could very well be. But the original point was that the breasts > in art could be realistic as there are people who do have that shape > even now. I don't disagree with that at all. However, Kat, I was not addressing your point with my comment. I was reacting to the woman who said her breasts, though small, have always been floppy, even in adolescence. I'd never heard of that before. > > What we can't say is that all of them were that way, anymore than we > can say none of them could be that way based on our own bodies. Agreed. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 21:12:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB42CN74025095 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:12:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB42BJTQ011320; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:11:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB42BHud029106; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:11:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (smtp2.surewest.net [208.45.228.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB42BEud029008 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:11:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 10773 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2003 02:11:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.11) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 4 Dec 2003 02:11:08 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031203180920.00bf83e8@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:11:02 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031203173213.00b0dac8@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2 SNWK2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And if you get it at the "Buy it now" price, it's still a good bargain. If I wanted another copy (I have two), this would be a good buy. And I would not trust the auction mentality that often runs prices up astronomically. Joan At 05:33 PM 12/3/2003 -0800, you wrote: >For those looking for it, Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd is up on eBay. >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3571157070&category=29331 > >It is a great book, and no I am not selling my copy. Just thought I would >share. > >Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 22:14:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB43E474025291 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:14:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB43AtTQ015627; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:10:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB43AkoR004736; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:10:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB43AeoS004636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:10:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB43CMUZ008955 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:12:22 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB43CMZG008953 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:12:22 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:12:22 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FCDBD1A.15484.E37F604@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FCDBD1A.15484.E37F604@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312032212.22108.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 03 December 2003 01:38 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Drat! I had been under the impression that the lady in this picture > > was a donor. :-( This painting was part of a tryptich (sp?) as I > > recall. > > You can tell that it is not a donor by the iconography. Notice what > she holds in her hands. Those are her identifying symbols. The > kneeling ladies are more like the donors in terms of dress. I can't even see her hands, Kat--to me it looks like her hands are busy with some drapery. But your point is well taken. In medieval art in general, including the early triptych paintings, saints are shown carrying (or sometimes just near) objects that are symbols of their martyrdom or life story. St. Agatha, for instance, is depicted carrying a pink lump that is meant to be a severed breast, because she allegedly had her breast cut off as part of her martyrdom/persecution. These "identifying symbols" (excellent description, Kat!) are referred to as "attributes." I couldn't remember what St. Barbara's attributes are, so I did a web search. This page claims they are a chalice and a palm, and that she is often depicted with or near a tower. (Or, sometimes, bizarrely enough, *holding* a tower.) The palm seems right, and the page has a bunch of helpful images of Barbara from different periods: http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/stb01001.htm This business of attributes may be just a Roman Catholic thing; the Greek Catholic icons shown on the above site just show her holding a cross. > Also, if you time match the dresses to others from the same time, the > kneeling people are wearing what you see in a lot of other paintings > which aren't confusing in their iconography, whereas St. Barbara's > dress doesn't truly match any one outfit (as Robin has explained in a > more detailed fashion.) These are good points, Kat. But there are two details that hit the eye first about the image we're discussing, and to my knowledge are as reliable in distinguishing a human donor from a saint or similar religious figure: 1) The figure is shown kneeling. I can't think of any examples where donors are *not* shown kneeling. 2) In some art, donors are shown at only about 1/3 to 2/3 the size of the saint or religious figure (though that isn't the case in the image we're discussing. It's part of the symbolism and shouldn't be construed as a misguided attempt to introduce perspective. > > I have on my hard-drive at least a couple more examples (from 1450 to > > 1480 or so) of this type of patterned fabric. One more gown similar to > > the first one I posted, worn by the Magdalen; one is a sideless sucote > > as worn by the paintings donor, two seem to be undergowns, and one > > just pinned on sleeves. My thought had been to pattern the > > construction on the gowns of the earlier part of the century, I had > > just been pleased to find fabric so similar to the paintings I have. > > > > :-) > > Sideless surcoats are a tricky item. You might exam them a little > more carefully to make sure that they are truly donors and not > another saint. (I'm sure Robin can explain that one in more detail > too.) I remember that the sideless surcoat hung on as ceremonial wear for women (real women) long after they ceased to be fashionable. I believe Robin alluded to this fact as well. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 22:33:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB43Xw74025358 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:33:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB43VpTQ017802; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:31:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB43VjQZ019202; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:31:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB43VgQZ019125 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:31:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01D48425D0 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:38:44 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FCEAC31.3010607@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 21:38:25 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find References: <4.2.2.20031203180920.00bf83e8@pop.surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20031203180920.00bf83e8@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joan Jurancich wrote: > And if you get it at the "Buy it now" price, it's still a good bargain. > If I wanted another copy (I have two), this would be a good buy. And I > would not trust the auction mentality that often runs prices up > astronomically. You can order it from amazon.co.uk for about $141 with shipping. The buy it now price on this auction is $165. I was lucky enough to get mine a couple years ago when amazon.uk was selling them for $40. I should have bought several.... Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 3 23:18:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB44I874025453 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:18:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB44HGTQ021342; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:17:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB44HDg7016732; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:17:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB44HBg7016644 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:17:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.40.38091bc7 (16087) for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:17:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d25.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.166]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v97.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID104-3ed73fceb53f3d2; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:17:04 -0500 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:17:03 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <62D49457.213B302C.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/3/2003 10:38:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > You can order it from amazon.co.uk for about $141 with shipping. The buy > it now price on this auction is $165. > > I was lucky enough to get mine a couple years ago when > amazon.uk was > selling them for $40. I should have bought several.... 40 bucks??!? I just got one off of ebay for $133, and I thought I got a great deal! Unfortunately I said to my hubby when it arrived "Look at what you got me for Christmas." He let me glance through it for about 1/2 hour, then took it away to be wrapped.... Live and learn, I guess "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 00:15:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB45Fq74025543 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:15:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB45ElTQ025076; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:14:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB45EjKp020096; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:14:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB45EhKp020061 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:14:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hB45EgqV022929 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:14:42 -0500 Message-ID: <00b701c3ba25$84b2c310$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.2.2.20031203180920.00bf83e8@pop.surewest.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:14:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not too much of a bargain. The buy it now price is $165 which is the same as the retail price. Amazon has it for $165 and they do free shipping. Barnes and Noble has it for $150 and I think their shipping is $5 or less. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Jurancich" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find > And if you get it at the "Buy it now" price, it's still a good bargain. If > I wanted another copy (I have two), this would be a good buy. And I would > not trust the auction mentality that often runs prices up astronomically. > Joan > > At 05:33 PM 12/3/2003 -0800, you wrote: > >For those looking for it, Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd is up on eBay. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3571157070&category=2933 1 > > > >It is a great book, and no I am not selling my copy. Just thought I would > >share. > > > >Kimiko > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 00:20:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB45KQ74025558 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:20:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB45JVTQ025424; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:19:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB45JUKp022728; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:19:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB45JQKp022698 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:19:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooie ([149.99.67.18]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031204051922.CYDK1080.orval.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:19:22 -0500 Message-ID: <005401c3ba25$f447ac40$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown (long) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:17:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, I wrote: > > > Drat! I had been under the impression that the lady in this picture > > was a donor. :-( This painting was part of a tryptich (sp?) as I > > recall. Robin wrote: > The Moreel triptych, if my memory is right. I saw this one in Bruges, at > the Groeninge Museum, which is probably the single best collection in the > world if you're interested in 15th c. paintings of Flemish dress. (OK, > maybe the Museum of Ancient Art in Brussels could top it.) A pretty > typical triptych format is to have a devotional scene in the middle (say, > a crucifixion) and the donors on the wings, with the donors accompanied by > their patron saints (often standing behind the kneeling donor). In this > one, without going back to look it up, I'd guess the men of the family are > on the left wing with one saint, and the women on the right wing with > another, in this case Barbara. > That's the one! Here are all the parts of it: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/3mature3/25more.jpg I wrote: > > I have on my hard-drive at least a couple more examples (from 1450 to > > 1480 or so) of this type of patterned fabric. One more gown similar to > > the first one I posted, worn by the Magdalen; one is a sideless sucote > > as worn by the paintings donor, two seem to be undergowns, and one > > just pinned on sleeves. My thought had been to pattern the > > construction on the gowns of the earlier part of the century, I had > > just been pleased to find fabric so similar to the paintings I have. Although it seems the fabric shows up predominantly in a religious context now that I come to look at it again. This is also one of those sneaky artist tricks to get your eyes to settle on the key players in a busy painting. Key figures will be larger, or extravagently dressed, or placed in front of something bright, so your eyes are drawn to them... Robin wrote: > That fabric does show up with some regularity. I'd love to know the sites > on your examples, just to make sure I have the same ones somewhere in my > collection. > > You'll find that sort of fabric on some "real" people, such as the woman > in the goldsmith shop I cited earlier (Petrus Christus, St. Eligius > depicted as a goldsmith). But you'll also find it on a lot of saints and > other allegorical/religious figures. Your Magdalen will be one example -- > and bear in mind that often Magdalen is shown in deliberately over-the-top > or "exotic" or "foreign" clothing, particularly by the second half of the > 15th century, so there will likely be lots of cool bits to her outfit that > would never have been seen on the street or in court. This is the Magdalen picture, a Memling: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/5late/37nogr11.jpg > > The sideless surcotes will be more troublesome for you. By the early > 1400s, they tend to show up only on women in the royal family, and > typically in ceremonial circumstances; by the mid-1400s they appear to be > artistic code for "queen" and appear almost exclusively on (1) royalty in > ceremonial presentation, (2) royal saints, or (3) situations in which a > woman is depicted symbolically in "queen's dress." So you might indeed > have a donor in a sideless surcote, but the donor in such a case will > almost certainly be a queen or duchess (and if she isn't, I definitely > want to know about it), and the surcote will be code for her rank, not > necessarily a garment she would own or wear. If the surcoted woman is > standing behind a donor, she's almost certainly a saint, and I'd predict > at least a 75% chance that she's Catherine, with a lesser chance of > Barbara, Helena, or Ursula. Send me the cites and I'll let you know who > you've got, assuming I have the images in my collection. > > (The above paragraph blows the punch line of one of my best lectures, as > those of you who have heard me speak about surcotes will know ;-) ) Looking at the picture again, it seems likely to me that she is royalty of some sort, there is a crown on her head and she is kneeling at the feet of the Madonna, now if I could just remember where I found that painting, I could post it here. :-) Ah ha! Found it, also a Memling: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/2middle2/13john2.jpg Here's the close up: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/2middle2/13john21.jpg Hmm, the sideless surcote may be a studio garment, look at the lady standing on the far left of this painting... http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/2middle3/13nodo2.jpg > Of course, depending on your purpose, there's no reason you *can't* dress > up as a saint, if it's acceptable in your circumstances to be wearing > medieval fantasy costume. It's darn pretty. I wouldn't suggest it for an > SCA competition, though, because it's probably not safe to speculate that > the saints' dresses ever existed. They can be used with caution for > guidance on certain elements, but only after you've got enough familiarity > with iconographic code to be able to sift out the symbolic bits and > correlate what's left with non-iconographic representations. > > --Robin Taking in mind what you have said, if I ever enter this into competition it will be for the construction rather than the fabric, though I could also use the fabric as an example of a modern find of a medieval fabric pattern, just not as part of the outfit if you see what I mean. :-) And speaking of St Barbara here is a lovely drawing (waist seam clearly showing, which was why I saved it and there's that fabric on her sleeves!) http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/f/p-fvb1.htm Another lovely Weyden tryptich with construction lines nicely showing: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/w/weyden/rogier/10braque/3braque.jpg False sleeves in a lovely brocade again, and an interesting hat. Another Weyden with construction lines, and a hint at how to wrap those head scarves: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/w/weyden/rogier/05sevens/2sevens3.jpg This is another Memling painting, she has a very fancy under-dress happening here: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/3mature1/17rein21.jpg And one more with fancy underskirt by an Unknown master: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/15_paint/2/03gudulf.jpg This was most of what I have collected up to this point by way of artwork, I am in a small city with a very lousy library, so most of my initial resarch has to be by the internet, I try to track down the appropriate books as best I can later. I also make a pest of myself to more knowlegeable people. :-) Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 00:43:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB45hv74025596 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:43:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB45gtTQ026602; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:42:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB45gsKp005051; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:42:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB45gqKp004942 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:42:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCnK/znp1cWJSzoGckypYoEBD+2RmXhsOnQ==">; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 21:41:54 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JGJJ6QMH; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 21:41:54 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:38:33 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown (long) Message-ID: <20031203.233833.-896307.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-15,24-26 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:17:23 -0500 "Sheridan & Shane" writes: > Looking at the picture again, it seems likely to me that she is > royalty of > some sort, there is a crown on her head and she is kneeling at the > feet of > the Madonna, now if I could just remember where I found that > painting, I > could post it here. :-) > Ah ha! Found it, also a Memling: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/2middle2/13john2.jpg > Here's the close up: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/2middle2/13john21.jpg While I don't have Robin's expertise in this area, I have listened to her lecture with rapt attention and I'd say that figure is meant to be St. Catherine. If you look a bit closer (and tear your eyes away from the fab brocade) you can see she is kneeling on both a wheel and a sword, both attributes of St. Catherine. Combine that with Robin's statement that St. Catherine gets to wear a sideless surcote as part of her iconography and you can pertty much call her Kate! She is kneeling before the Madonna because Mary is the Queen of Heaven and outranks everybody there, especially when she has the infant Jesus on her lap. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 00:59:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB45xx74025608 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:59:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB45wxTQ027387; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB45woLm012446; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:58:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB45wjLm012362 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:58:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05047 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:24:50 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:24:50 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown In-Reply-To: <200312032212.22108.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > You can tell that it is not a donor by the iconography. Notice what > > she holds in her hands. Those are her identifying symbols. The > > kneeling ladies are more like the donors in terms of dress. > > I can't even see her hands, Kat--to me it looks like her hands are > busy with some drapery. She is cradling a miniature tower in her right arm. The arm and hand are covered with a draped mantle, but that tower is clearly sitting on the forearm and being steadied by her hand. If you don't look closely it's easy for your eyes to put the tower to proper size and assume it's behind her in the distance. > I couldn't remember what St. Barbara's attributes are, so I did a web > search. This page claims they are a chalice and a palm, and that she > is often depicted with or near a tower. (Or, sometimes, bizarrely > enough, *holding* a tower.) The palm seems right, and the page has a > bunch of helpful images of Barbara from different periods: The palm frond is the symbol of martyrdom, and is carried by those saints who are also martyrs. The reference to the chalice surprises me, as I don't think I've ever seen that applied to Barbara. Then again, there are a number of saints with chalices, so maybe I've been missing some Barbaras mixed in there. The Oxford Book of Saints cites only the tower. > http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/stb01001.htm Lots of chalices in this set, but all from post-medieval art to my eye. I wonder if the chalice became associated with her in more recent centuries; my iconographic knowledge is pretty strictly limited to medieval depictions. I see that at least one image has a lightning bolt as well. That's because Barbara is the patron saint of people struck by lightning or otherwise at risk of sudden death. In her legend, her father (who had imprisoned her in the tower) was killed by a lightning strike. > This business of attributes may be just a Roman Catholic thing; the Greek > Catholic icons shown on the above site just show her holding a cross. Yup. I'm married to a Greek Orthodox Christian. (I won't tell him you said Greek Catholic!) His church just completed a huge renovation that included the addition of many icons, and I was quite stumped by a lot of the images because of the lack of attributes -- usually I can walk through a museum and toss off saint ID's from a distance. My husband pointed out that attributes were useful for a largely illiterate (Western) population of churchgoers. The Greek tradition is simply to label the saints by name, in writing. There are plenty of iconographic features in the Greek depictions (e.g. specific saints have certain physical characteristics or are depicted in certain poses) but rarely if ever do the Greek saints hold attributes. > 1) The figure is shown kneeling. I can't think of any examples where > donors are *not* shown kneeling. Good point, at least for donor panels. Not so useful for identifying stray saints in other images, but donor panels are often the best place to look for "real" images anyway, so that's a good rule of thumb. (I can think of one medieval painting in which the saints are kneeling, but that's actually a factor of the donor portraits being retrofitted into saints by a later owner, so it doesn't count.) > I remember that the sideless surcoat hung on as ceremonial wear for women > (real women) long after they ceased to be fashionable. I believe Robin > alluded to this fact as well. Yes, but it's important to note that it was royal women who were wearing them in ceremonial contexts, not non-royal noblewomen, with the possible exception of brides at their weddings around mid-1400s, and in that case it's because they were symbolically dressed as queens, so again it's a question of *royal* ceremonial wear. (And for those, it's impossible to tell whether this is only a convention of artwork and not something that was done by live brides). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 01:04:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB464a74025617 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:04:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB463YTQ027836; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:03:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB463XLm015087; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:03:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB463ULm015062 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:03:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 7949 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2003 06:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail1.inreach.com) (209.142.2.50) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2003 06:03:29 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:03:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1082.24.4.69.40.1070517809.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:03:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Ren From: "Diana Habra" To: In-Reply-To: <20031203000957.19739.qmail@web14802.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031203000957.19739.qmail@web14802.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi! My SCA name is Giovanna, and I am new to this list. I am fairly > new to costuming, too, and I am always full of questions. I have gotten > a lot of really helpful information from reading the posts on this list, > but I have a couple of questions I was wondering if anyone could help me > with. > > When would they have started using cartridge pleating in Florence, and > when did they start using corded petticoats or farthingales? I am > trying to put together a complete outfit from about the 1490s, and I am > not sure if they would have used these. I have been doing double box > pleats, but I would like to get fuller skirts if that would be accurate. > > > Thanks a lot! > > Giovanna Hi Giovanna, Do you have any pictures that you are working from? I know of a great painting that has several different styles of Italian Renn from the period that you are wanting to do. If you would like, I can scan the picture for you and maybe some others. As far as the pleating goes, box pleats are appropriate, gathering was used, and cartridge pleating was used. However.....the cartridge pleating was minimalist. The skirts are not as full as in later years and there are not as many pleats. They made the pleats pretty wide. If you want to contact me privately at dch@inreach.com, I can give you more details. Italian Renn is my specialty and I would be glad to help out since the Italian styles are fabulously wonderful. -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 01:23:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB46N774025639 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:23:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB46MJTQ028856; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB46MHLm024128; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:22:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB46MCLn024099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:22:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB46NtUZ012374 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:23:55 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB46Nt6K012372 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:23:55 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown (long) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:23:54 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031203.233833.-896307.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20031203.233833.-896307.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312040123.54728.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 04 December 2003 12:38 am, seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:17:23 -0500 "Sheridan & Shane" > > writes: > > Looking at the picture again, it seems likely to me that she is > > royalty of > > some sort, there is a crown on her head and she is kneeling at the > > feet of > > the Madonna, now if I could just remember where I found that > > painting, I > > could post it here. :-) > > Ah ha! Found it, also a Memling: > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/2middle2/13john2.jpg > > Here's the close up: > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/2middle2/13john21.jpg > > While I don't have Robin's expertise in this area, I have listened to her > lecture with rapt attention and I'd say that figure is meant to be St. > Catherine. If you look a bit closer (and tear your eyes away from the fab > brocade) you can see she is kneeling on both a wheel and a sword, both > attributes of St. Catherine. Combine that with Robin's statement that St. > Catherine gets to wear a sideless surcote as part of her iconography and > you can pertty much call her Kate! I agree, but this is not the image that kicked off this thread. :-) > She is kneeling before the Madonna > because Mary is the Queen of Heaven and outranks everybody there, > especially when she has the infant Jesus on her lap. I'd say you're right based on the broken wheel fragment and the sword, both of which are attributes of St. Catherine (and I oughta know)! :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 01:32:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB46We74025677 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:32:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB46VqTQ029510; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:31:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB46VpLm028808; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:31:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB46VlLn028782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:31:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB46XTUZ012454 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:33:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB46XT4i012452 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:33:29 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:33:28 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312040133.28556.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 04 December 2003 02:24 am, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > > > > > You can tell that it is not a donor by the iconography. Notice what > > > she holds in her hands. Those are her identifying symbols. The > > > kneeling ladies are more like the donors in terms of dress. > > > > I can't even see her hands, Kat--to me it looks like her hands are > > busy with some drapery. > > She is cradling a miniature tower in her right arm. The arm and hand are > covered with a draped mantle, but that tower is clearly sitting on the > forearm and being steadied by her hand. If you don't look closely it's > easy for your eyes to put the tower to proper size and assume it's > behind her in the distance. Yes, I see that now. The way it's done, it doesn't even look as though her hand is supporting the tower, and I frankly ignored the tower in my effort to figure out if she was holding anything. :-) [snip] > Lots of chalices in this set, but all from post-medieval art to my eye. I > wonder if the chalice became associated with her in more recent centuries; > my iconographic knowledge is pretty strictly limited to medieval > depictions.] Mostly post-medieval, but the iconography didn't change. Or at least didn't change much; the chalice as attribute might be a post-medieval thing, I guess. There is one medieval image on the page I gave the URL for; namely the first one on the left in the row captioned "other." She's wearing green and holding a palm in one hand with a tower in the other. [snip] > > This business of attributes may be just a Roman Catholic thing; the Greek > > Catholic icons shown on the above site just show her holding a cross. > > Yup. I'm married to a Greek Orthodox Christian. (I won't tell him you said > Greek Catholic!) His church just completed a huge renovation that included > the addition of many icons, and I was quite stumped by a lot of the images > because of the lack of attributes -- usually I can walk through a museum > and toss off saint ID's from a distance. My husband pointed out that > attributes were useful for a largely illiterate (Western) population of > churchgoers. The Greek tradition is simply to label the saints by name, in > writing. There are plenty of iconographic features in the Greek depictions > (e.g. specific saints have certain physical characteristics or are > depicted in certain poses) but rarely if ever do the Greek saints hold > attributes. > > 1) The figure is shown kneeling. I can't think of any examples where > > donors are *not* shown kneeling. > > Good point, at least for donor panels. Not so useful for identifying stray > saints in other images, but donor panels are often the best place to look > for "real" images anyway, so that's a good rule of thumb. > > (I can think of one medieval painting in which the saints are kneeling, > but that's actually a factor of the donor portraits being retrofitted into > saints by a later owner, so it doesn't count.) Fair enough. Thanks. > > I remember that the sideless surcoat hung on as ceremonial wear for women > > (real women) long after they ceased to be fashionable. I believe Robin > > alluded to this fact as well. > > Yes, but it's important to note that it was royal women who were wearing > them in ceremonial contexts, not non-royal noblewomen, with the possible > exception of brides at their weddings around mid-1400s, and in that case > it's because they were symbolically dressed as queens, so again it's a > question of *royal* ceremonial wear. (And for those, it's impossible to > tell whether this is only a convention of artwork and not something that > was done by live brides). Fair enough again. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 02:01:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB471P74026042 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 02:01:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB470FTQ001076; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:00:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB470EEU013020; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:00:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4709EU012992 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:00:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05368 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 02:26:22 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 02:26:22 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown (long) In-Reply-To: <005401c3ba25$f447ac40$cb6afea9@shooie> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Sheridan & Shane wrote: > This is the Magdalen picture, a Memling: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/5late/37nogr11.jpg Very typical (by this time) "Magdalen" dress, in the style pioneered several decades earlier by van der Weyden and contemporaries. I use this one in my Magdalen lecture. Note her visible hair, compared to the other ladies -- Magdalen will generally be the sexiest, flashiest, and most dramatically posed of the lot. > Looking at the picture again, it seems likely to me that she is royalty of > some sort, there is a crown on her head and she is kneeling at the feet of > the Madonna, now if I could just remember where I found that painting, I > could post it here. :-) > Ah ha! Found it, also a Memling: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/2middle2/13john2.jpg > Here's the close up: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/2middle2/13john21.jpg Tee hee. This is Saint Catherine. The painting is Memling's very famous "Mystic Marriage of St. Catherine" (you can see her getting a ring from the baby Jesus, and on the floor beneath her are the wheel and sword, her attributes). Yes, Memling mixed up the saint stories of Catherine of Alexandria and Catherine of Siena, but no one seemed to care at the time. That's Barbara reading at right, with her tower behind her. Note that fabric again, as the cloth of honor behind the Virgin, and also on one of the angel-musicians. Memling did this painting for the Hospital of St. John in Bruges (working from memory here, so I hope I have that right). The painting is still in Bruges and is a central display in the Memling Museum, which is located in the building that formerly housed the hospital. The painting itself is enormous. It's a triptych, and this is the center panel. > Hmm, the sideless surcote may be a studio garment, look at the lady > standing on the far left of this painting... > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/2middle3/13nodo2.jpg Memling was a popular painter, and his Mystic Marriage would have been well known at the time. It was not uncommon for individual patrons to ask an artist to re-paint a composition for their purchase. Memling did at least three versions of this scene, and the painting you cite is one of them -- the Donne Triptych, now at the National Gallery in London. Each of the versions has differences in composition, as the figures get shuffled around to accommodate the new patrons, different size of canvas, etc. In this case, the painting is much smaller; Donne and his wife are moved into the center panel, taking the positions flanking the throne, and the female saints are moved back to a traditional standing position behind them. Catherine is now not engaged in the mystic marriage, but instead is presenting the donor to the infant Jesus. > And speaking of St Barbara here is a lovely drawing (waist seam clearly > showing, which was why I saved it and there's that fabric on her sleeves!) > http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/f/p-fvb1.htm You'll find waist seams on fitted dresses (real as well as unreal ones) from the 1430s or so, while other examples continue to have no seam. I'm inclined to think that both versions were in use at the same time for decades. By the end of the century, the style shifts mostly to the waist seams, as in this picture. > Another lovely Weyden tryptich with construction lines nicely showing: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/w/weyden/rogier/10braque/3braque.jpg > False sleeves in a lovely brocade again, and an interesting hat. The Braque triptych. This is Magdalen again, one of several in which van der Weyden painted her wearing the laced-front short-sleeved dress with pin-on sleeves. He has at least three such Magdalens that show the seam lines of this dress from different angles, but I'd advise some caution in generalizing the construction, which may be specific to van der Weyden Magdalens :-P The one at the Prado, in particular (a Descent from the Cross) has been much discussed on this list for its weird skirt seaming. Also much discussed here has been the "air filter hat." The way people talk about it you'd think it was all over the place, but I know it only in maybe three images, all by van der Weyden. If I'm remembering right, two are Magdalens, and the third is an attendant of the Virgin (in the Presentation at the Temple, I think). All are meant to be historic/Biblical/foreign. When I saw the Braque Magdalen at the Louvre I was stunned to find that the hat is painted as having Hebrew writing going around the outer edge of the hat, embroidered into the linen. (It's hard to see in reproductions, but you can get a hint of the white-on-white letters if you look to the right edge of the hat, where the veil crosses over.) The Flemish painters often used fanciful hats to signify exotic/foreign, and I am firmly of the opinion that this hat is just such an invention (and may have been one of the painter's own props, since he used it three times). It also has the echo of a turban, as many Magdalen hats do. > Another Weyden with construction lines, and a hint at how to wrap > those head scarves: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/w/weyden/rogier/05sevens/2sevens3.jpg This, from the Seven Sacraments, is the third of the three Magdalens I referred to -- the others being the Prado Descent and the Braque triptych. At least the headscarf is a lot more realistic in this one! > This is another Memling painting, she has a very fancy under-dress > happening here: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/3mature1/17rein21.jpg Another Magdalen, of course. > And one more with fancy underskirt by an Unknown master: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/15_paint/2/03gudulf.jpg The Virgin on the left, Magdalen on the right in red, donor in the middle. Weird facial expressions. I've seen this composition before, with the people on the balcony in the background, but I don't think I've seen this painting. The perspective is more bizarre than most. Love what the baby's doing with the beads, though, even if his legs do look deformed. > This was most of what I have collected up to this point by way of > artwork, I am in a small city with a very lousy library, so most of my > initial resarch has to be by the internet, I try to track down the > appropriate books as best I can later. I also make a pest of myself to > more knowlegeable people. :-) And to think I did this before we *had* an internet. It's so easy now. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 03:28:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB48SE74019313 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 03:28:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB48RJTQ004764; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:27:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB48REuD025635; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:27:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB48RBuD025600 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:27:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from p153-nas1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.210.153] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ARopE-0003kg-00; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:27:06 +1300 Message-ID: <003801c3ba40$5f7a7500$99d2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.0.0.22.0.20031202071354.02f51348@earthlink.net><3FCDBB97.28423.E320E7B@localhost> <200312032053.55929.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:26:41 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I don't disagree with that at all. However, Kat, I was not addressing your > point with my comment. I was reacting to the woman who said her breasts, > though small, have always been floppy, even in adolescence. I'd never heard > of that before. Embarassing confession here, I am as well. Never been large, I'm barely an A, and with a large rib cage so I have the same fitting issues as another singer on the list (ribcage like a barrel, very long as well, had two singing teachers go "ohhh, well, that's interesting..." at that stage naturally like it, singing just accentuated it;) ) I think in my case, it was simply the tissue didn't develop fully.. I never filled out as such. And even though I'm about 10k over the ideal of no adipose on my frame;) Actually probably closer to 15.. ehem.. when I first developed I didn't. So the extra adipose again just accentuated that natural tendancy. It makes fitting for costumes difficult, and probably is why I had to experiment to find my own way of getting a good fit and supprt in a 15thC kirtle. Not just small but the actual squish factor is different for me. But being small, two layers of mid weight linen is all I need for support;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 06:56:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4Bun74020228 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:56:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Bu5TQ014552; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 04:56:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Bu2Ap029016; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 04:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4BtwAq028969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 04:55:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB4BsOPX007625 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:54:24 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 06:54:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FCF210B.80804@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 06:56:59 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown (long) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > Also much discussed here has been the "air filter hat." The way people > talk about it you'd think it was all over the place, but I know it only in > maybe three images, all by van der Weyden. There's one underneath the crown of a "three kings" but I don't recall the artist. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Baby t-shirts with medieval baby image -- great for your favorite Midwinter Holiday present. http://www.virtue.to/store/ (other stuff too!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 08:21:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4DLr74021293 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:21:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DL1TQ020241; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DKv82014258; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:20:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DKs82014226 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:20:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.105] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2E711420084; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 08:13:11 -0500 Message-ID: <005201c3ba6a$17f2e580$695183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <62D49457.213B302C.3739C57F@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:25:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And my husband found mine somewhere on the net at $35! Some clerk put the book up at the wrong price. The mistake was discovered about two days later and the new price was $125. Of course they had to honor the previous price for the lucky few who recognized the "bargain". ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find > In a message dated 12/3/2003 10:38:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > > > You can order it from amazon.co.uk for about $141 with shipping. The buy > > it now price on this auction is $165. > > > > I was lucky enough to get mine a couple years ago when > > amazon.uk was > > selling them for $40. I should have bought several.... > > 40 bucks??!? I just got one off of ebay for $133, and I thought I got a great deal! Unfortunately I said to my hubby when it arrived "Look at what you got me for Christmas." He let me glance through it for about 1/2 hour, then took it away to be wrapped.... Live and learn, I guess > "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 08:24:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4DO574021299 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:24:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DN8TQ020387; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:23:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DN882015606; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:23:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DN582015566 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:23:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a214.in-tch.com [66.62.107.14]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hB4D1aV22286 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:01:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FCF35D6.102A4CAE@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 06:25:42 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown (long) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Something very similar also shows up in depictions of 16th c. Irish women. Although it occurs to me, I think the artists in question were *not* native Irish, so maybe that makes my Irish examples suspect as well? --sue Robin Netherton wrote: > > > Another lovely Weyden tryptich with construction lines nicely showing: > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/w/weyden/rogier/10braque/3braque.jpg > > False sleeves in a lovely brocade again, and an interesting hat. > > Also much discussed here has been the "air filter hat." The way people > talk about it you'd think it was all over the place, but I know it only in > maybe three images, all by van der Weyden. If I'm remembering right, two > are Magdalens, and the third is an attendant of the Virgin (in the > Presentation at the Temple, I think). All are meant to be > historic/Biblical/foreign. When I saw the Braque Magdalen at the Louvre I > was stunned to find that the hat is painted as having Hebrew writing going > around the outer edge of the hat, embroidered into the linen. (It's hard > to see in reproductions, but you can get a hint of the white-on-white > letters if you look to the right edge of the hat, where the veil crosses > over.) The Flemish painters often used fanciful hats to signify > exotic/foreign, and I am firmly of the opinion that this hat is just such > an invention (and may have been one of the painter's own props, since he > used it three times). It also has the echo of a turban, as many Magdalen > hats do. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 08:40:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4Ded74021345 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:40:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DdlTQ021434; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:39:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Ddj82024111; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:39:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Ddf82024064 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:39:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07214 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:05:57 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:05:57 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown (long) In-Reply-To: <3FCF210B.80804@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Robin Netherton wrote: > > Also much discussed here has been the "air filter hat." The way people > > talk about it you'd think it was all over the place, but I know it only in > > maybe three images, all by van der Weyden. > > There's one underneath the crown of a "three kings" but I don't recall > the artist. Male, in that case, then. That wouldn't surprise me. The three kings (wise men) are excellent places to look for "foreign/exotic" details. Often the artists use turban-like hats for one or more of them. I heard a paper at K'zoo a few years ago in which someone correlated a bunch of the "foreign/exotic" hats that cropped up in 15th c. Franco-Flemish art with actual headdresses that were seen when the king and entourage of some Eastern country (Turkey?) visited Europe, an event that received a great deal of public attention and involved some large and showy pagaentry. She compared illustrations of the foreign visitors with the examples that started appearing in religious art right around that time, and made a very good case that a lot of the hat designs were based on what the artists saw on the visitors (and what viewers of the art would instantly recognize as Eastern). And then these designs were carried down from one artist to another, becoming part of the artistic "code" for foreigners. If anyone needs a cite for that paper, I'll look it up for you; I have the program book from that conference still. I believe she did eventually get it published in _Dress_ or someplace similar, but I'm too loaded up to go hunting it all up this second. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 08:43:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4DhK74021351 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:43:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DgRTQ021761; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:42:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DgQ82025545; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:42:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DgO82025522 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:42:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.132.235.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([67.74.132.235] helo=diane) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ARtkL-0006rX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 05:42:23 -0800 Message-ID: <019501c3ba6c$737ef400$c28f4a43@diane> From: "Diane Maynard" To: "Historical Costume" References: <62D49457.213B302C.3739C57F@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:42:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is not a great price unless this book is from the original printing in which the photos are a little better quality (though not much). I happen to have both, an original and the reprint. We managed to get the $40.00 reprint when Amazon "accidentally" put them on the market for that price. It took them over 24 hours to discover their mistake but they honored the copies sold at $40.00 and then put the price back up. I cannot remember who it was on this list that caught that mistake for us but, THANK YOU for letting us know about the great price. I use my reprint and have my original safely packed away. Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find > In a message dated 12/3/2003 10:38:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > > > You can order it from amazon.co.uk for about $141 with shipping. The buy > > it now price on this auction is $165. > > > > I was lucky enough to get mine a couple years ago when > > amazon.uk was > > selling them for $40. I should have bought several.... > > 40 bucks??!? I just got one off of ebay for $133, and I thought I got a great deal! Unfortunately I said to my hubby when it arrived "Look at what you got me for Christmas." He let me glance through it for about 1/2 hour, then took it away to be wrapped.... Live and learn, I guess > "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 08:46:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4DkT74021356 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:46:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DjdTQ021934; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:45:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Djc82027251; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:45:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Dja82027220 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:45:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07262 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:11:52 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:11:52 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown (long) In-Reply-To: <3FCF35D6.102A4CAE@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Something very similar also shows up in depictions of 16th c. Irish > women. Although it occurs to me, I think the artists in question were > *not* native Irish, so maybe that makes my Irish examples suspect as > well? The examples I've seen involve wrapped turban-like headdresses, but unless I'm remembering wrong, they didn't have the same clear structure of a single linen band wrapped neatly in a spiral to form a hat. About all the 16th c. examples show is that different cultures have come up with various ways to wrap linen strips into turban-like headdresses. I haven't seen any good reason to draw a connecting line from the Irish examples to anything being worn in Flanders of a century earlier (particularly since the hat seems consistently absent from depictions of real women in 15th c. Flanders). Though if someone can make a better case for a connection, I'd be happy to hear it. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 08:47:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4DlL74021360 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:47:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DkVTQ022031; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:46:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DkU82027760; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:46:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DkR82027726 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:46:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.74.132.235.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([67.74.132.235] helo=diane) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ARtoI-0007ht-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 05:46:26 -0800 Message-ID: <01a701c3ba6d$05813020$c28f4a43@diane> From: "Diane Maynard" To: "Historical Costume" References: <62D49457.213B302C.3739C57F@aol.com> <005201c3ba6a$17f2e580$695183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:46:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had just sent an email about this. That was your husband that found the great deal ? Tell him THANKS from all of us. Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find > And my husband found mine somewhere on the net at $35! Some clerk put the > book up at the wrong price. The mistake was discovered about two days later > and the new price was $125. Of course they had to honor the previous price > for the lucky few who recognized the "bargain". > ----- Original Message ----- > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 08:49:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4DnL74021367 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:49:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DmUTQ022276; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:48:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DmT82028938; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:48:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DmP82028874 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:48:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104112.uvm.edu [132.198.104.112]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4DmOg2029500 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:48:24 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCF3B2A.4070304@uvm.edu> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 08:48:26 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown (long) References: <3FCF210B.80804@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <3FCF210B.80804@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Robin Netherton wrote: > >> Also much discussed here has been the "air filter hat." The way people >> talk about it you'd think it was all over the place, but I know it >> only in maybe three images, all by van der Weyden. The closest non-van der Weyden version of it that I've ever seen is this one from a crucifixion scene attributed to Justus of Ghent (JOOS van Wassenhove), ca. 1460. I have no copy of the entire painting, only this B&W excerpt. He combines it with the peaked headgear that the other Flemish painters are so fond of. The hat also has writing around it, like the Magdalen hat. He may have been influenced by van der Weyden. In this case I believe it to be an "Old Testament" hat. http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/campbellp290.jpg - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 09:11:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4EBY74021426 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:11:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4EAZTQ023546; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:10:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4EAXSj012729; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:10:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [63.251.216.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4EAVSj012702 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:10:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from megan2 (pcp06940299pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.19.18]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE1715CE1 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:10:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support - breast firmness Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:16:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200312032053.55929.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK. Let's put the breast-firmness topic to bed. I am one who has had floppy, saggy breasts since I got them, suddenly when I gained weight at the age of 16, I went from a saggy B- to a D. My sister, on the other hand, has firm, non-saggy C+ breasts and still does at the age of 43, and has never really needed a bra. I always have. So, genetics play a role, and even at the radiologist for a mamogram, they comment that I am much easier to get good pictures on because my breasts are less dense. So there can be very wide variability in breast density/firmness/sagginess, even within blood relatives. End of my information. -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Catherine Olanich Raymond Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 8:54 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support On Wednesday 03 December 2003 01:31 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Maybe this is a "breast firmness" issue, dictated by genetics more > > than anything else? > > That could very well be. But the original point was that the breasts > in art could be realistic as there are people who do have that shape > even now. I don't disagree with that at all. However, Kat, I was not addressing your point with my comment. I was reacting to the woman who said her breasts, though small, have always been floppy, even in adolescence. I'd never heard of that before. > > What we can't say is that all of them were that way, anymore than we > can say none of them could be that way based on our own bodies. Agreed. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 09:27:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4ER174021449 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:27:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4EPcTQ024576; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:25:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4EPaSj021484; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:25:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14010.mail.yahoo.com (web14010.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB4EPXSj021457 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:25:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031204142533.9246.qmail@web14010.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14010.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 14:25:33 GMT Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:25:33 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1082.24.4.69.40.1070517809.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] 18TH/19TH CENTURY X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a portrait of Dona Isabel de Porcel that I have always found intriguing because her hair color is very similar to mine. One of the decriptions of the painting mention that she is wearing Andalusian costume. Other than the obvious mantilla, what is distinctive about the rest of the dress? Not a lot of it is visible in the painting. ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 09:39:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4Edj74021485 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:39:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4EcoTQ025363; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:38:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4EcmSj029222; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:38:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB4EcjSk029115 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:38:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2003120409383913248 for ; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 09:38:39 -0500 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id hB4Ecbf14980 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:38:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01ad01c3ba74$68b52320$49a810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <62D49457.213B302C.3739C57F@aol.com> <005201c3ba6a$17f2e580$695183d1@rmitchellras> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:39:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Sewing/embroidery machine question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just saw an ad for a White Embroidery Machine model W3300 for $499. Anybody know anything about it. Recommendations? Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 09:57:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4EvM74021517 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:57:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4EuSTQ026593; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:56:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4EuOm6010586; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:56:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f51.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4EuMm6010506 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:56:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:56:17 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.78 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 14:56:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.78] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 08:56:17 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Dec 2003 14:56:17.0453 (UTC) FILETIME=[C53D1DD0:01C3BA76] Subject: [h-cost] Re: 15th C gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Robin Netherton >...I see that at least one image has a lightning bolt as well. That's >because >Barbara is the patron saint of people struck by lightning or otherwise at >risk of sudden death. In her legend, her father (who had imprisoned her in >the tower) was killed by a lightning strike. >... Which is why she's the patron of artillery and of people killed by gunshot. (and just to keep this aimed at costuming) Robin, I'm just curious - what sorts of clues are there that the sideless surcote becomes a symbol of magesty in the 14th century. Not arguing, mind you - this is just new to me. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Our best dial-up offer is back. Get MSN Dial-up Internet Service for 6 months @ $9.95/month now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 10:10:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4FAn74021556 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:10:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4F94TQ027692; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:09:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4F93m6019482; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4F91m6019379 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 09:08:55 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 09:08:39 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] QEWU and swimwear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was lucky enough to get mine a couple years ago when amazon.uk was selling them for $40. I should have bought several.... Dawn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was lucky enough to get mine then too :), and I don't know how many of my friends wished I had ordered multiples. One of them recently got a used copy, at a really great price, from Amazon.com. Someone had posted it under their resell services and apparently had not done their research. That might be another place to check regularly. Regarding swimwear; naturally they built the new pool at the high school the year after I graduated :). We did have swim classes in college (a catholic girl's college) with suits provided by the school. Lovely cotton knit one-pieces that none of use would be caught dead in in public! Catherine PS to Linda: Kansas did have hard alcohol sales in the 60's and 70's. It was liquor-by-the-drink that was illegal (thanks to Carrie Nation) altho there was a way around it by belonging to a 'club'. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 10:47:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4FlX74021752 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:47:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4FkZTQ001293; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:46:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4FkTm6019717; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:46:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB4FkPm6019542 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:46:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OnYtS6dhqb0Ooif6gjSLero=">; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 07:45:54 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JGKMQN5K; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 07:45:54 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:27:50 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Message-ID: <20031204.074528.2012.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-5 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I grew very fast when I was 11 (six inches in 6 months, straight up). I finally took hatha yoga when I was 18 to firm up certain areas, and it worked great. Have excellent tone in the bust area to this day, some 28 years later. And that's without continuing the yoga. Lucky, I think! Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 10:48:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4FmP74021757 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:48:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4FlcTQ001415; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:47:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Flcm6020632; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:47:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB4FkRm6019586 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:46:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OnYtS6dhqb0OSbqs7jx+kJM=">; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 07:45:54 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JGKMQN5V; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 07:45:54 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:38:06 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy Message-ID: <20031204.074528.2012.6.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-36 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO She had to have plucked her hair--no one's brow is that high. Arlys On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:21:14 -0500 "Sheridan & Shane" writes: > Speaking of projects to do someday, this is the picture I have had on > my > computer as wallpaper for the past year or so. That has to be one of > the > most interesting hats! > > http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/unknown/p-unknown4.htm > > Any guesses as to the gown she is wearing? There is a dress in the > Unicorn > tapestries which is similar at the shoulders, but I thought those > gowns were > likely fictional.. > > Sheridan > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > ...it is well known that a vital ingredient of success is not > knowing that > what you're attempting can't be done. > > Terry Pratchett (Equal Rites) > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 10:58:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4FwK74021776 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:58:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4FuvTQ002279; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:56:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4FuuTB028330; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4FupTB028245 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:56:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from host81-129-8-202.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.129.8.202] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1ARvqT-0000rK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:56:49 +0000 Message-ID: <00f801c3ba7f$61849e40$ca088151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FCCC231.15148.A63A94A@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 12th c. bust support Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:57:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat wrote: > > I think that you'd have to look at where they are doing their HG. If > you are talking about food rich areas (such as in Africa), they are > going to have an easier time of it than in other areas. > > I don't know why skeletally (which I think you mean by sketally) you > would necessarily be able to tell. If there are certain types of wear > patterns on the bones or muscle attachments you could but there are > other reasons why it might be the case, but levels of obesity vs > normal weight would be difficult to tell. The evidence most usually adduced for the superior nutrition of hunter gatherer peoples to those dependent on agriculture is height. It's fairly easy measuring that... It's interesting, however, that medical textbooks are apparently still reciting the 'Agriculture is progress' myth, long after it was brushed under the carpet; it's another of the Victorian convictions which was abandoned in the face of an embarassing lack of evidence to support it. Rather like the non-existent Aryan invaders who allegedly swept into the Indus Valley conquering everything in sight a few thousand years ago; it has to do with the personal beliefs of the people who made it up, rather than any scientifically based argument on evidence. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 11:12:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4GC874021822 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:12:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4GBKTQ003887; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:11:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4GBITB011505; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:11:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4GBFTB011446 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:11:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id KAA06476 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:11:12 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:11:12 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20031204.074528.2012.6.Cley@juno.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My guess is that the dress is real and her finest attire. I bet some priest got a nice sermon on that headdress as a primo example of the deadly sin of vanity, though and the exposure of that hair, which would of course make more females want to copy it. The forehead was probably plucked and or shaved to get that line--wonder if the painter had to use a little artistic license to erase any redness, swelling, or impending stubble, or if Mary had had it plucked out for so long a time, the hair wouldn't grow back. It is actually no different than all the hair removal systems and methods we are obsessed with today. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 11:30:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4GUl74021958 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:30:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4GU2TQ005820; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4GTxTB028321; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:29:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4GTsTB028200 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:29:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08456 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:56:10 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:56:10 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Sideless surcote (was: 15th c. gown) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Marc Carlson wrote: > (and just to keep this aimed at costuming) Robin, I'm just curious - > what sorts of clues are there that the sideless surcote becomes a > symbol of magesty in the 14th century. Not arguing, mind you - this > is just new to me. I have an hour-plus lecture that lays it all out ;-) so it's hard to encapsulate it in a post, particularly without the 70 or 80 slides that go with it. But essentially if you look at who is shown wearing the style, it changes from being a fairly common plain sleeveless surcote with conservative side openings in the early 14th c., to a more luxuriant overdress with scooped-in sides and fur trim worn by the very highest nobility in the mid/late 14th c., to eventually appearing only on royal women in highly formal contexts and also in allegorical circumstances specifically referencing royalty. And by the late 15th c. it appears primarily on *dead* royalty (e.g. royal saints, historic queens) and extremely rarely on live queens, and then only in iconographic presentations. There's a lot more to it; I've correlated variations in the style (particularly the fur use) with the various stages of its use in visual depictions. And there are a lot of interesting examples that underscore the use of the surcote as "royalty" code and as iconography for certain royal saints. (In some of these images, you might think the women are "regular" people until you find out just what is being illustrated, and it turns out that the woman in the surcote is a queen, allegorical figure, or royal saint.) It's anyone's guess whether the dress continued to be worn well into the 1400s, even by queens for ceremonial wear. The surcotes may actually have been trotted out just for coronations and weddings for a while. But the the use of the dress in artwork may have been fossilized at any point in the timeline, so it's hard to know when the gowns fell out of use entirely. It's pretty clear, though, that by the late 1400s the gowns probably didn't exist except in art (and perhaps occasional creations for fancy-dress "historical queen" costume), as the artistic depictions start showing weirdnesses inconsistent with any physically possible construction method, suggesting that the artists had never seen them in life but were simply repeating the artistic code for particular characters. These later depictions tend to combine elements from more recent fashions, and also show a lot of misunderstanding of layers and structure, which creates real problems when you try to reproduce some of the late 15th-century examples based on artwork. This all came out of a content analysis of my collection of surcote images, probably several hundred in all, that I did for a presentation at the Medieval Congress (Kalamazoo) maybe 10 years ago. I classified the images by time, style, and context, and they all fell out into some pretty clear categories with distinct shifts in use by time period. I keep adding to the collection. Ultimately I'll database it all and generate some updated numbers, but everything I've added in the past decade has fallen into the same patterns I identified with the original set. (Yet one more paper I haven't had time to write up properly, partly because of the time it will take to re-do the content analysis, and partly at the thought of just how many images I'd need to pay for photo permissions to use, assuming anyone would let me publish that many. I probably have enough to do a small book on the style, but I can't see a book on the sideless surcote as being in enough demand to make up printing costs! But since I don't see myself having the time to write it in the near future, this is moot point for now. I'll just keep collecting surcotes in anticipation of the day I do. When the kids leave home, perhaps.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 11:35:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4GZ674021981 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:35:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4GXtTQ006317; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:33:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4GXsTB002193; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:33:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from out009.verizon.net (out009pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4GXmTB002069 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:33:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.7]) by out009.verizon.net ESMTP <20031204163347.FCIF15642.out009.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:33:47 -0600 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:33:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out009.verizon.net from [192.168.1.7] at Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:33:47 -0600 Message-Id: <20031204163347.FCIF15642.out009.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > From: "Diane Maynard" > Date: 2003/12/04 Thu AM 08:46:28 EST > To: "Historical Costume" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find > > I had just sent an email about this. That was your husband that found the > great deal ? Tell him THANKS from all of us. > > Diane > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:25 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find > > > > And my husband found mine somewhere on the net at $35! Some clerk put the > > book up at the wrong price. The mistake was discovered about two days > later > > and the new price was $125. Of course they had to honor the previous price > > for the lucky few who recognized the "bargain". > > ----- Original Message ----- > > I was lucky enough to get two copies at that price thanks to this list, and as others have stated I have been kicked by friends for not getting more. It has been mentioned that Amazon UK honored the price which is true but more importantly in my mind was what happened with my copies. By the time I ordered they were out of stock on the book. They had to order new ones and still honored the mistakenly entered price! What customer service. Anotgher interesting thing I havent heard mentioned that was for one of the days it was mistakenly listed, the book actually made the bestseller list surpassing a newly released Harry Potter book! Cheers, Ron _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 11:39:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4Gd374022004 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:39:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4GcATQ006794; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:38:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Gc9TB006111; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:38:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Gc6TB006072 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:38:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-155-200-188.asm.bellsouth.net [68.155.200.188]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hB4Gc6hl001149 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:38:06 -0500 Message-ID: <00d701c3ba84$fcb9f2c0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031204.074528.2012.6.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:38:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If someone repeatedly wears their hair pulled tightly back, after a while it looks like that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia J Ley" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy > She had to have plucked her hair--no one's brow is that high. > > Arlys > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:21:14 -0500 "Sheridan & Shane" > writes: > > Speaking of projects to do someday, this is the picture I have had on > > my > > computer as wallpaper for the past year or so. That has to be one of > > the > > most interesting hats! > > > > http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/unknown/p-unknown4.htm > > > > Any guesses as to the gown she is wearing? There is a dress in the > > Unicorn > > tapestries which is similar at the shoulders, but I thought those > > gowns were > > likely fictional.. > > > > Sheridan > > > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > > ...it is well known that a vital ingredient of success is not > > knowing that > > what you're attempting can't be done. > > > > Terry Pratchett (Equal Rites) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 12:00:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4H0r74022065 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:00:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4H04TQ009138; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:00:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4H01Ti027316; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from fed1mtao08.cox.net (fed1mtao08.cox.net [68.6.19.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4GxtTi027085 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:59:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from ZORRO.cox.net ([68.7.135.77]) by fed1mtao08.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031204165913.EGJJ9010.fed1mtao08.cox.net@ZORRO.cox.net> for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:59:13 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20031204085633.02e297f0@pop.west.cox.net> X-Sender: mudsleidi@pop.west.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 08:59:18 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heidi Fox Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi list, I tripped over this fabric site yesterday while searching for striped silk taffeta: www.hyenaproductions.com I don't remember ever seeing it mentioned here or linked from any of my favorite sites... Cheers, Heidi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 12:07:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4H7274022089 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:07:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4H5QTQ009775; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:05:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4H5PTi002848; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:05:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4H5MTi002694 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:05:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.97.41954c63 (25711) for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:05:13 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <97.41954c63.2d00c348@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:05:12 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Ecclesiastical Clothing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As promised, I have checked my files for information on ecclesiastical clothing. I don't seem to have saved the reference to cassocks, but remember that they were introduced during the Oxford Movement in the mid-19th century. The books that I used are as follows (all I copied was the references to the surplice, but you may be able to find references to the cassock): George Tyack, "Historic Dress of the Clergy," London: William Andrews & Co., 1897 "The Warham Guild Hnadbook," London: A.R. Mowbray & Co., Ltd., 1963 Percy Dearmer, "The Parson's Handbook," 12th ed., London: Oxford University Press, 1931. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 12:09:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4H9f74022107 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:09:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4H8QTQ010228; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4H7eTi005283; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:07:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4H6rTi004397 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.167.41] (helo=wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ARwwG-000646-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 12:06:52 -0500 Message-ID: <9096933.1070557612116.JavaMail.root@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:06:52 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: -----Original Message----- >> And one more with fancy underskirt by an Unknown master: >> http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/15_paint/2/03gudulf.jpg > >The Virgin on the left, Magdalen on the right in red, donor in the middle. >Weird facial expressions. I've seen this composition before, with the >people on the balcony in the background, but I don't think I've seen this >painting. The perspective is more bizarre than most. Love what the baby's >doing with the beads, though, even if his legs do look deformed. Ooooh! Another neat rosary picture! I collect pictures that have rosaries, paternosters or other prayer beads in them, BTW, so if anyone else has references, I'd love to have them. Once I started focusing on them, it's amazing how many paintings have a rosary in them somewhere: being held in the hands of a portrait subject, hanging on the wall in the background, et cetera. I'm working on a small theory, BTW: I have seen three paintings that have rosaries of red beads (probably coral) with "gauds" or marker beads that appear to be rock crystal. Two of the three are Madonna paintings with the infant Jesus playing with the beads; the third is from a painting I can't identify. (It's on a book cover and I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere in the book, but it's in German and I can't spot it.) I am wondering whether the coral/crystal combination is specific to the Madonna and child; more examples or counter-examples would be lovely. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 12:10:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4HAu74022113 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:10:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4H9pTQ010449; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:09:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4H9kTi007779; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:09:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4H9WTi007372 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:09:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.15c.287896d4 (25711) for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:09:22 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <15c.287896d4.2d00c441@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:09:21 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/4/2003 12:00:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, mudsleidi@cox.net writes: www.hyenaproductions.com Oh, wow! These look to die for. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 12:19:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4HJ174022131 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:19:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HHvTQ011444; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:17:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HHuTi015701; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:17:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14009.mail.yahoo.com (web14009.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB4HHqTi015641 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:17:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031204171752.37807.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:17:52 GMT Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:17:52 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: [h-cost] 18TH/19TH CENTURY To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031204142533.9246.qmail@web14010.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a portrait of Dona Isabel de Porcel that I > have always found intriguing because her hair color > is > very similar to mine. One of the decriptions of the > painting mention that she is wearing Andalusian > costume. Other than the obvious mantilla, what is > distinctive about the rest of the dress? Not a lot > of > it is visible in the painting. > http://reisserbilder.at/index.asp?aid=1806 > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? > Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 12:23:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4HNA74022150 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:23:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HIKTQ011514; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:18:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HIJTi016113; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:18:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HIITi016088 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:18:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.146] (pm5-146.eos.net [205.133.149.146]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4HIGQU005780 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:18:16 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 12:19:31 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312040311.hB43BQoS005099@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: st. barabara X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy Raymond wrote: "I can't even see her hands, Kat--to me it looks like her hands are busy with some drapery." Look again, Cathy. The draped hands are holding a tower. St. Barbara's symbol (or one of them) is the tower because she was locked up in one. The pictures you linked to are interesting but they are all 19th-century "sentimental" style art, or at least the ones that came in for me. If you look at books of iconography, you'll find many examples. As far as the Greek Orthodox symbol, or lack of one, I don't know. Greek Orthodox art is very different from Western European, and does not allow much leeway. They have a whole philosophy about writing icons (it's officially "writing," not "drawing" or "painting") that, like the Greek Orthodox Church itself, is very mystical. Saints are supposed to be actually present in the icon, in a special way. Robin, I sure wish you would write a book on this subject!!!! I understand that you want to use tons of images, but if everyone stuck to presentations only, we'd all be a lot poorer in knowledge! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 12:37:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4Hb874022195 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:37:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HaNTQ013337; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Ha7Ti003541; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:36:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HZZTi002955 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:35:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.146] (pm5-146.eos.net [205.133.149.146]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4HZWQU011571 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:35:32 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 12:36:46 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312040700.hB470UEV013147@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] memling X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, I am certainly enjoying all these pictures! And all the knowledgeable discussion. There's a Memling Museum??? Memling is my new favorite painter. Every time I see a picture from this time that I particularly like, it's a Memling. Anyone know of any particularly good books of his pictures? Xmas is coming, after all! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 12:42:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4Hg974022215 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:42:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HeOTQ013719; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:40:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Hd3Ti006176; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:39:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HcaTi005770 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:38:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hB4HSYW9023553 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:28:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031204122557.01ac6d78@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 12:28:37 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown (long) In-Reply-To: <9096933.1070557612116.JavaMail.root@wamui03.slb.atl.earthl ink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can weigh in just a little on the Coral/Crystal combination. Historically Coral is considered a "protection" or "protective" element for small children. Hence why you see so many infants in portraits sporting red "coral" beads. Also in respect to the Virgin and Child reference to the crystal may be an allusion to the Immaculate Conception. Just something to muse on. Mari / Bridgette >Ooooh! Another neat rosary picture! > >I collect pictures that have rosaries, paternosters or other prayer beads >in them, BTW, so if anyone else has references, I'd love to have them. >Once I started focusing on them, it's amazing how many paintings have a >rosary in them somewhere: being held in the hands of a portrait subject, >hanging on the wall in the background, et cetera. > >I'm working on a small theory, BTW: I have seen three paintings that have >rosaries of red beads (probably coral) with "gauds" or marker beads that >appear to be rock crystal. Two of the three are Madonna paintings with the >infant Jesus playing with the beads; the third is from a painting I can't >identify. (It's on a book cover and I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere in >the book, but it's in German and I can't spot it.) I am wondering whether >the coral/crystal combination is specific to the Madonna and child; more >examples or counter-examples would be lovely. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 12:51:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4Hps74022251 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:51:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HpCTQ014511; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:51:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Hp4jQ016387; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB4Hp0jQ016290 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:51:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031204174409.44763.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.251.232] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 09:44:09 PST Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:44:09 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031204085633.02e297f0@pop.west.cox.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heid---you evil(but nice) lady!---what yummy fabrics!!! Visions of Regency gowns are dancing in my head --not to mention the to-die-for italian silk brocades---with it's attendant visions of 16th century venetian style gowns. But I would most certainly BE dead if I attempt to compromise the family budget--even at their 'sale ' prices:( Albra (trying to wipe the drool off her keyboard) Heidi Fox wrote: Hi list, I tripped over this fabric site yesterday while searching for striped silk taffeta: www.hyenaproductions.com I don't remember ever seeing it mentioned here or linked from any of my favorite sites... Cheers, Heidi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 12:56:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4Hu774022273 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:56:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HspTQ014921; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:54:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HsnjQ020453; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:54:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB4HshjQ020360 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:54:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031204172801.80419.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:28:01 GMT Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:28:01 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics-Elizabethan alert To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031204085633.02e297f0@pop.west.cox.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.hyenaproductions.com/store+brocades.htm ITALIAN SILK BROCADE Garnet & Copper this bears a passing resemblance to some of the fabric in Elizabeth R. :) --- Heidi Fox wrote: > Hi list, I tripped over this fabric site yesterday > while searching for > striped silk taffeta: > > www.hyenaproductions.com > > I don't remember ever seeing it mentioned here or > linked from any of my > favorite sites... > > Cheers, > Heidi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 12:57:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4HvU74022281 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:57:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HuITQ015131; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:56:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HuFtk021855; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:56:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4HuDtk021796 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:56:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hB4HuCW9016309 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:56:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031204125541.01a65320@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 12:56:16 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031204085633.02e297f0@pop.west.cox.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, Man, Want.... Mari >Hi list, I tripped over this fabric site yesterday while searching for >striped silk taffeta: > >www.hyenaproductions.com > >I don't remember ever seeing it mentioned here or linked from any of my >favorite sites... > >Cheers, >Heidi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 13:24:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4IOw74022364 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:24:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4IODTQ018420; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:24:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4IOAtk021663; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:24:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f115.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4IO5tk021496 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:24:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:24:00 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.78 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 18:24:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.78] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 12:24:00 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Dec 2003 18:24:00.0548 (UTC) FILETIME=[C9D27E40:01C3BA93] Subject: [h-cost] Sideless surcote (was: 15th c. gown) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Robin Netherton >I have an hour-plus lecture that lays it all out ;-) Yeah, but I haven't gotten to SEE that one yet :) >with it. But essentially if you look at who is shown wearing the style, it >changes from being a fairly common plain sleeveless surcote with >conservative side openings in the early 14th c., to a more luxuriant >overdress with scooped-in sides and fur trim worn by the very highest >nobility in the mid/late 14th c., to eventually appearing only on royal >women in highly formal contexts and also in allegorical circumstances >specifically referencing royalty. And by the late 15th c. it appears >primarily on *dead* royalty (e.g. royal saints, historic queens) and >extremely rarely on live queens, and then only in iconographic >presentations. Hmm. Interesting. I've noticed some drawings of a particular style of boot from the late 1400s to the early mid 1500s that seems to be representative of a "working man/commoner's" boot when it shows up, although it's a century or so out of the archaeology. So I'm wondering about the whole represntation of the past as an icon for something else thing. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Get holiday tips for festive fun. http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 13:47:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4Il674022438 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:47:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4IkKTQ020795; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:46:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4IkItk013965; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:46:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4IkEtk013846 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.c5.3bb55b67 (18251) for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:46:04 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:46:03 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes very yummy fabrics....but the site! Ugh! Shut off the awful music!!!! Anyway, the embroidered taffeta stripes are screaming a la Polonaise! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 14:38:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4JcP74022572 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:38:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4JbPTQ026312; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:37:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4JbJhO003020; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:37:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Jb7hO002800 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:37:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ARzHe-000GYG-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:37:06 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:21:18 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy References: <002601c3b9de$3f827b60$cb6afea9@shooie> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote > >On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Sheridan & Shane wrote: > >> Speaking of projects to do someday, this is the picture I have had on >> my computer as wallpaper for the past year or so. That has to be one >> of the most interesting hats! >> >> http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/unknown/p-unknown4.htm >> >> Any guesses as to the gown she is wearing? There is a dress in the >> Unicorn tapestries which is similar at the shoulders, but I thought >> those gowns were likely fictional.. > >Good catch. This one, in my considered opinion, is fictional too, or at >least makes use of certain "exotic" elements designed to signal that This >Is Not A Real Person. The arrangement of the trim bandings on the bodice >is a partial clue, but the screamingly obvious tipoff is the combination >of the ointment jar and the turban: We are looking at Mary Magdalene. The >ointment jar is her attribute, and the turban (particularly as shown here, >mixed with more recognizable European headdress elements) is a standard >"exotic/foreign" label used for Magdalen and certain other Biblical women. >And I've seen at least three or four other paintings that show the >Magdalen's hair coming out of the top of a headdress in a ponytail, as it >does here. > >Yes, I know it says Mary of Burgundy at the top. That may or may not be >accurate, as often such labels are added long after the painting is made. >If it is indeed a portrait of Mary of Burgundy, it's Mary presented as the >Magdalen. This isn't as strange as it sounds: I have at least six or seven >examples from the late 1400s and early 1500s of women posing as the >Magdalen, complete with jar. Mary Magdalen was an extremely popular saint, >second only to the Virgin Mary. She also tended to be portrayed in artwork >of this time as sexy, exotic, and fancily dressed. So apparently it wasn't >unusual for women to have their portraits painted as her; I would guess >that it gave them the excuse to be portrayed in Really Flashy Stuff while >still being respectable. > >Now I need to find a copy of this in a book so I can photograph it (since >I'm not likely to be in France anytime soon). This is an absolute >must-have for the "Magdalen as Fashion Plate" section of my talk on >saint's clothing. > >--Robin Robin, Have you ever come across a Descent from the Cross from Onze-Lieve-Vrouw ter Poterie in Bruges? It has the most over-the-top, fantasy Magdalen I have ever seen, but I couldn't get a picture (sniff!) It must be round about 1500, and IIRC, she is wearing a very exaggerated gable headdress with more turban-ish stuff on top! And she's just sitting at the foot of the painting looking decorative, completely ignoring all the people lifting the body down and the Virgin fainting and everything. I think I shall have to go back to Bruges some time and ask if I can photograph it. (The guy at the museum was a bit intimidating) Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 15:03:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4K3p74022669 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:03:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4K36TQ028798; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:03:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4K311L027868; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4K2r1L027722 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:02:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09904 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:29:11 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:29:11 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Jean Waddie wrote: > Robin, Have you ever come across a Descent from the Cross from > Onze-Lieve-Vrouw ter Poterie in Bruges? It has the most over-the-top, > fantasy Magdalen I have ever seen, but I couldn't get a picture > (sniff!) It must be round about 1500, and IIRC, she is wearing a very > exaggerated gable headdress with more turban-ish stuff on top! And > she's just sitting at the foot of the painting looking decorative, > completely ignoring all the people lifting the body down and the > Virgin fainting and everything. Been there! Seen it! Got the photo! I use it in my saints-dress talk when I'm showing examples of Magdalene as an "exotic." She's a beaut -- the headdress is sort of a turban with these big gold things on the front and sides and back, plus she's got an overdress split down the side and fastened with a brooch. Though she's not quite uninvolved from the action -- she's praying, facing the Virgin (her back to Christ!). The other two women have some rather wild headgear too, but Magdalen's the flashiest. I didn't have any trouble taking photos at the OLVP Museum, but I was there with a bunch of medievalists on an arranged trip, so that may have helped. Also, I don't use a flash. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 15:36:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4Kaa74022774 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:36:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4KZnTQ002325; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:35:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4KZO1L029873; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:35:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4KZF1L029712 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:35:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.167.44] (helo=wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AS0Bu-0001N7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:35:14 -0500 Message-ID: <673126.1070570113067.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:35:13 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Subject: [h-cost] Re: 15th C gown (long) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: >> Another lovely Weyden tryptich with construction lines nicely showing: >> http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/w/weyden/rogier/10braque/3braque.jpg > >Also much discussed here has been the "air filter hat." The way people >talk about it you'd think it was all over the place, but I know it only in >maybe three images, all by van der Weyden. If I'm remembering right, two >are Magdalens, and the third is an attendant of the Virgin (in the >Presentation at the Temple, I think). All are meant to be >historic/Biblical/foreign. When I saw the Braque Magdalen at the Louvre I >was stunned to find that the hat is painted as having Hebrew writing going >around the outer edge of the hat, embroidered into the linen. (It's hard >to see in reproductions, but you can get a hint of the white-on-white >letters if you look to the right edge of the hat, where the veil crosses >over.) The Flemish painters often used fanciful hats to signify >exotic/foreign, and I am firmly of the opinion that this hat is just such >an invention (and may have been one of the painter's own props, since he >used it three times). It also has the echo of a turban, as many Magdalen >hats do. I seem to recall reading somewhere that this is a style of hat characteristic of gypsies in this particular time and place. Can't remember the source though. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 15:54:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4Ksp74022831 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:54:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Ks5TQ004449; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:54:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Ks41L018322; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:54:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Krx1L018259 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:53:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AS0U2-0005le-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 20:53:58 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:37:30 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: [h-cost] memling and 15th century gown References: <200312040700.hB470UEV013147@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, there is a Memling Museum, in the Hospital of St John (Sint Jaanshospitaal) in Bruges for which he painted the Ursula chest. I spent a week in Bruges just going round in a blissful haze of Flemish masters! And I've just found another cute painting, in the guidebook from the museum. It's a 19th century painting of Memling painting the Ursula chest, and the nuns showing the nobles round to watch him. The costumes of the nobles is a very strange mish-mash, but the lady at the front is wearing a dress in That Fabric, and a style clearly influenced by what saints wear in Memling paintings (although neither Ursula nor the Virgin wear that on the chest). What fun! Jean Gail & Scott Finke wrote > >Ah, I am certainly enjoying all these pictures! And all the knowledgeable >discussion. There's a Memling Museum??? Memling is my new favorite painter. >Every time I see a picture from this time that I particularly like, it's a >Memling. > >Anyone know of any particularly good books of his pictures? Xmas is coming, >after all! > >Gail Finke > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 16:01:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4L1G74022853 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:01:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4KxvTQ004964; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:59:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4KxrFE023782; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:59:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4KxjFE023616 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:59:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.167.44] (helo=wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AS0Zd-0006dz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:59:45 -0500 Message-ID: <21135695.1070571585377.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:59:45 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Subject: [h-cost] Fabric drape & seams X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, I have a question about a new project and how the grain of the fabric will affect it. I'm making a cyclas (very early version of what became the sideless surcote, but not sideless :) out of some nice fabric from the upholstery table. It has a very obviously one-way design, and I have about three yards of 60+ inch wide fabric. It's stiffish -- I haven't done a wash test yet to see if it's washable, but if it is, it might soften up some. This style of overgown seems normally to be assembled out of front and back rectangular panels (with neckline cut out) and then lots of triangular gores at the sides. (It is sleeveless and has vertical-slit armholes, longer than normal armholes but nothing like the later sideless surcotes.) The fabric is wide enough that I could cut one rectangular panel and one wide trapezoidal panel out of the width and have them both facing the same way. By "trapezoidal" I mean it's the shape you would get if you marked out a rectangular panel and then added the triangles to the sides that would be "gores" if you cut them out separately and attached them. But here you're cutting it all in one piece. The rest of the fabric would then go into making triangular gores. (And yes, probably some of them would have the pattern upside down, but since I'm told medieval seamsters didn't care whether all the gores matched, I won't either.) Here's my question: does the garment work better with the wide trapezoidal panel forming the back, and the rectangle + seamed gores forming the front? I would guess it might, since that would put a large stiff area at the back, but provide seams where the garment might fold at the sides of the front. But my reasoning could be backward -- how would I tell? TIA, ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 16:04:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4L4774022859 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:04:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4L2vTQ005326; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:02:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4L2tFE026761; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:02:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4L2qFE026617 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:02:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1d9.15c5017d (4539) for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:02:44 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <1d9.15c5017d.2d00faf3@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:02:43 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics-Elizabethan alert To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/4/2003 11:10:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, ladyforbeys@yahoo.com writes: ITALIAN SILK BROCADE Garnet & Copper this bears a passing resemblance to some of the fabric in Elizabeth R. Gorgeous fabrics! Their prices though....whew! Makes me glad I live so close to the garment district in Los Angeles! Laura, Choreographer; Property Master http://www.guildofstaugustine.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 16:09:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4L9n74022891 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:09:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4L92TQ005960; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4L90FE002679; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4L8vFE002556 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:08:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1d6.15c97094 (4539) for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:08:49 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <1d6.15c97094.2d00fc61@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:08:49 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: st. barabara To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/4/2003 9:27:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: Robin, I sure wish you would write a book on this subject!!!! I understand that you want to use tons of images, but if everyone stuck to presentations only, we'd all be a lot poorer in knowledge! To be honest with you, this time period never fascinated me before. But in following this thread, and looking at all the portraits, I'll admit, I'm hooked! If you wrote a book, I'd sure buy it. Thank you all so much. Laura, Choreographer; Property Master http://www.guildofstaugustine.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 18:50:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB4NoX74023434 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:50:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4NluTQ023443; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:47:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4NlPpC000918; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:47:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4NlLpC000842 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:47:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AS3Bo-0006Lh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:47:20 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics-a word of caution Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:47:22 -0700 Message-ID: <000301c3bac0$f6d3aae0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031204085633.02e297f0@pop.west.cox.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hB4NlLpC000842 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would be careful in dealing with this vendor. I had a very nasty experience when I asked if their silk velvet was 100% silk....they told me it didn't exist and then went on to say when I pointed them to several sites where it did exist that the other sites were lying! As it turns out their velvet is not 100% silk and they seemed to feel justified in advertising it as such since they didn't believe there was such a thing?!? Couldn't follow the logic on that one! So buyer beware! Sg -----Original Message----- www.hyenaproductions.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 19:42:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB50go74023592 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:42:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB50foTQ029336; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:41:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB50flQP015790; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:41:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB50fiQP015696 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:41:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.c9.3b2b46c4 (4394) for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:41:28 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:41:28 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric drape & seams To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/4/2003 4:01:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, claning@igc.org writes: > Here's my question: does the garment work better with the wide trapezoidal > panel forming the back, and the rectangle + seamed gores forming the front? > Hmmmm. This is not my period but...here's what comes to my mind. The triangular gores added to a straight piece in this period are really more like joins than gores, no? By this I mean that one side of the triangle is on the straight and the other slopes on the bias. And you sew the straight of the triangle to the edge of the rectangle. So the straight of grain in the triangle and the grain of the rectangle are parallel. It falls as if it were the trapezoidal piece because there's no change in the grain of fabric. If this is the case, and the front and back shapes are essentially the same, put the extra seams in the back and let the front be one beautiful unseamed piece. Just for looks. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 19:54:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB50st74023611 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:54:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB50rpTQ000484; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:53:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB50rnQP025355; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:53:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB50rjQP025269 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:53:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) hB50rfDh020957 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:53:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01bb01c3baca$363f15d0$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:53:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Subject: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www-personal.umich.edu/~prayl/cooks/ Does anyone know anything about this painting? Thanks. kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 20:03:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB513c74023637 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:03:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB512sTQ001368; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:02:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB512qKi003271; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:02:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from fed1mtao03.cox.net (fed1mtao03.cox.net [68.6.19.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB512nKi003178 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:02:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.west.cox.net ([172.18.180.53]) by fed1mtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031205010223.XII28419.fed1mtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:02:23 -0500 From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics-a word of caution Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:02:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20031205010223.XII28419.fed1mtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good to know, thank you! That kind of attitude turns me off from purchasing--there's absolutely no reason to deliver poor customer service. Though admittedly, I didn't see that their velvet is now listed as 100% silk. It does mislead the customer who might not be familiar with the industry's tendency to list silk/rayon velvet simply as silk velvet and avoid listing the actual fiber content. I just assumed it was 18% silk/82% rayon because they DIDN'T make the distinction. I also realize they exaggerate when they claim "This is the softest, highest quality velvet." Then you look at the price and realize you can find "silk" velvet for as low as $7.00 a yard elsewhere. >sigh!< But gosh their embroidered and striped taffetas are sure puuuurrrdy to look at! ============================================================ From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" Date: 2003/12/04 Thu PM 06:47:22 EST To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics-a word of caution I would be careful in dealing with this vendor. I had a very nasty experience when I asked if their silk velvet was 100% silk....they told me it didn't exist and then went on to say when I pointed them to several sites where it did exist that the other sites were lying! As it turns out their velvet is not 100% silk and they seemed to feel justified in advertising it as such since they didn't believe there was such a thing?!? Couldn't follow the logic on that one! So buyer beware! Sg -----Original Message----- www.hyenaproductions.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ============================================================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 20:07:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB517274023643 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:07:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB516ATQ001693; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:06:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB516AKi005862; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:06:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu (IDENT:cu41754@jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.238]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5166Kj005805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:06:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from VAIO (dyn-shp-226-49.dyn.columbia.edu [160.39.226.49]) (user=asj2001 mech=LOGIN bits=0)hB515x1b001812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:06:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001d01c3bacb$42f25110$9865fea9@VAIO> From: "Alexia S. Jacobs" To: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:01:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] fashion in British India? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hB517274023643 Status: RO I am doing a small research project and would love recommendations for sources on Western fashion in British India and its effect upon fashion and/or ideas in the British mainland. Was the clothing worn by British men and women remarkable in any way? Was it exaggeratedly British or Western or less so? How did fashion reach India and how did those in the British isles perceive it? Thank you for any help. Alexia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 20:14:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB51EP74023652 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:14:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB51DSTQ002351; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:13:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB51DQKi011733; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:13:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB51DNKi011603 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:13:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003120501131701200gju5fe>; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 01:13:17 +0000 Message-ID: <3FCFDBAD.8030109@fenris.net> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:13:17 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting References: <01bb01c3baca$363f15d0$1902a8c0@duncan> In-Reply-To: <01bb01c3baca$363f15d0$1902a8c0@duncan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ailith wrote: >http://www-personal.umich.edu/~prayl/cooks/ > >Does anyone know anything about this painting? > >Thanks. >kate > > Vincenzo Campi, 1580s Kitchen Oil on canvas Pinacoteca di Brera, Milan from http://gallery.euroweb.hu liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 20:24:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB51Ow74023670 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:24:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB51OBTQ003234; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:24:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB51O9Ki019465; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:24:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB51O5Kj019326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:24:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB51MTPX012129 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:22:30 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 20:22:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FCFDE6F.2060404@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 20:25:03 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric drape & seams References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > The triangular gores added to a straight piece in this period are really more > like joins than gores, no? By this I mean that one side of the triangle is on > the straight and the other slopes on the bias. And you sew the straight of > the triangle to the edge of the rectangle. So the straight of grain in the > triangle and the grain of the rectangle are parallel. It falls as if it were the > trapezoidal piece because there's no change in the grain of fabric. I was told that for this style, to put the bias of the gore against the straight grain of the body section, so you get the seam where gore-meets-gore through two straight grains. However, I haven't tried it both ways to see if there's a difference in how it hangs. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 21:12:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB52CT74023824 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:12:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB52BjTQ006317; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:11:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB52BfnE018911; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:11:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net (imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.70]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB52BcnE018864 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:11:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from gary ([216.78.25.11]) by imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031205021132.GKZF1942.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@gary> for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:11:32 -0500 From: "Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:12:51 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <01bb01c3baca$363f15d0$1902a8c0@duncan> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ailith, It's a Campi, and there are several of them. You can see the others here... http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/workdiary/page1.html Apollonia Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi Seneschal of the Incipient Canton of Salesberie Glen Kingdom of Atlantia www.livejournal.com/users/apollonia **La vita senz'onore e un viver morto.** -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of ailith Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:54 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting http://www-personal.umich.edu/~prayl/cooks/ Does anyone know anything about this painting? Thanks. kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 21:40:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB52eI74023937 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:40:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB52dSTQ008153; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:39:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB52dPnE003863; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:39:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB52dKnF003754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:39:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB52biPX012601 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:37:44 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:37:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FCFF015.4080906@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:40:21 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Subject: [h-cost] Costume exhibit "lost" at airport X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Museum Exhibit Lost at Los Angeles Airport 2003-12-05 En route to an exhibit at the Middle Eastern Studies Association of North America conference in Anchorage, the world famous Palestine Costume Archive travelling exhibit was lost. Now a worldwide plea has gone out to help locate and return the exhibit to its rightful owners. Lots more at: http://scatoday.net/story.php?search_id=N-20031204-193045-0003&PHPSESSID=6ea30ca59fa70feb2cbc9ba4e50270da (For those unfamiliar with the SCA Today site, they carry articles about archeological & cultural news, as well as SCA-relevant stories.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Baby t-shirts with medieval baby image -- great for your favorite Midwinter Holiday present. http://www.virtue.to/store/ (other stuff too!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 22:22:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB53MW74024063 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:22:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB53LlTQ010937; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:21:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB53LiTW027174; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:21:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB53LeTW027082 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:21:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m136.in-tch.com [216.166.191.136]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hB5309V14580 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:00:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FCFFA61.7F37E1B0@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 20:24:17 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th C gown (long) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. The one picture I can find, right off the bat (although I know I've seen others--I just didn't save the links or posts because I don't like the style ), is in my copy of Dunlevy, in the colored illos. section between pages 80 and 81. It's illustration #2, and the caption reads (in part): ""Irish noblewoman and poor man painted by Lucas de Heere about 1575 but based on an early sixteenth-century illustration. The noblewoman...has a linen roll brim to her felt hat,..." It actually looks very similar to the the "bandage wrap" of the portrait referred to in this thread, although the top part is definitely not turban-y. I think I've been linking them because all of the depictions I know of 16th c. Irish women (with the exception maybe of Geraldine Fitzgerald) were done by foreigners, sometimes from second-hand accounts, and that there was definitely present a "the Irish are foreign/strange/barbaric" flavor to comments made about them then. Plus, de Heere is Dutch (I think), so maybe there's some sort of connection with the Flemish? Pure speculation on my part. Oh, wait. I thought of an online source (and actually found it!): http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/irish/headdress.html --sue Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > Something very similar also shows up in depictions of 16th c. Irish > > women. Although it occurs to me, I think the artists in question were > > *not* native Irish, so maybe that makes my Irish examples suspect as > > well? > > The examples I've seen involve wrapped turban-like headdresses, but unless > I'm remembering wrong, they didn't have the same clear structure of a > single linen band wrapped neatly in a spiral to form a hat. About all the > 16th c. examples show is that different cultures have come up with various > ways to wrap linen strips into turban-like headdresses. I haven't seen any > good reason to draw a connecting line from the Irish examples to anything > being worn in Flanders of a century earlier (particularly since the hat > seems consistently absent from depictions of real women in 15th c. > Flanders). Though if someone can make a better case for a connection, I'd > be happy to hear it. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 22:36:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB53aA74024122 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:36:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB53ZbTQ011647; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:35:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB53ZZTW004324; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:35:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB53ZTTX004251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:35:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB53bCUZ014709 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:37:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB53bB8U014706 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:37:11 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: st. barabara Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:37:10 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312042237.10638.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 04 December 2003 12:19 pm, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > Cathy Raymond wrote: > > "I can't even see her hands, Kat--to me it looks like her hands are busy > with > some drapery." > > Look again, Cathy. The draped hands are holding a tower. St. Barbara's > symbol (or one of them) is the tower because she was locked up in one. Robin explained this to me in an earlier post; but thanks for your time! > > The pictures you linked to are interesting but they are all 19th-century > "sentimental" style art, or at least the ones that came in for me. There's a medieval one at the far left on the row labeled "Other". :-) >If you > look at books of iconography, you'll find many examples. I know. But I was looking for something I could give a URL to, since this list does not accept emails with attachments. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 4 23:51:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB54pJ74024236 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:51:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB54oeTQ016394; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:50:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB54ocUE013874; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:50:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB54oaUE013857 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:50:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031205045036.58578.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.87.94.182] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:50:36 EST Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 15:50:36 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: Costuming , courtesan@yahoogroups.com, italian_persona@yahoogroups.com, ItalRenCostuming , MargosPatterns , RenCostumer , sca-garb@yahoogroups.com, Tailors , h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] December's Italian Showcase X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, it is once again time to announce the newest addition to the Italian Showcase at The Realm of Venus. This month's Showcase is a little late, but well worth waiting for, in my opinion. I introduce to you Asa Gormsdottir, winner of Ealdormere's Pentathlon. She presented 5 entries based on 1495 Venice - a set of dresses, chopines, an illumination, a banquet translation and food entries. I am delighted to present to you her "Set of handsewn dresses of burnt peach and dark copper silk, and a pair of cork chopines, both circa 1495". Grab a hot (or cold) drink, sit down and prepare for some great reading. :) ===== **************************************** Lady Bella Lucia da Verona *The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net *Courtesan Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan/ ***************************************** http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 00:34:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB55YF74024386 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 00:34:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB55XeTQ019573; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:33:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB55XcpM004978; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:33:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB55XZpM004889 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:33:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-119-194-121.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.119.194.121 with login) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2003 05:33:29 -0000 Message-ID: <00e701c3baf1$51128a00$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c3bacb$42f25110$9865fea9@VAIO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fashion in British India? Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:33:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One place to start might be the exhibition catalog put out by the Met on their Orientalism exhibit. I believe it does have a section on India. Martin, Richard and Harold Koda. Orientalism: Visions of the East in Western Dress. New York: Metropolitan Museum of Art, 1994. - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 04:03:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB593674018726 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 04:03:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB590eTQ028728; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB590XhB011953; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:00:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB590VhB011941 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:00:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-127-70.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.127.70]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB58xp4V008666 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 00:59:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031205005241.04bf0360@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 00:57:10 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] fashion in British India? In-Reply-To: <001d01c3bacb$42f25110$9865fea9@VAIO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I am doing a small research project and would love recommendations for >sources on Western fashion in British India and its effect upon fashion >and/or ideas in the British mainland. Was the clothing worn by British >men and women remarkable in any way? Was it exaggeratedly British or >Western or less so? How did fashion reach India and how did those in the >British isles perceive it? Thank you for any help. I have seen a couple of portraits of English in India, at various times during the English occupation of that country, and the English seem to have brought their fashions with them. My guess is that European fashion reached India in the luggage of Europeans visiting that country, and didn't stray far from those visitors. OTOH, printed cotton from India reached England in the mid-1600s, and there is a picture of a tunic-and-pants suit of it, worn by a European, somewhere in Boucher's 20,000 Years Of Fashion. Shortly thereafter, India cotton prints were banned in England. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 04:13:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB59Dv74018981 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 04:13:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB59COTQ029363; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:12:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB59CNhB017485; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:12:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB59CGhB017438 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:12:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hB59E7A13386.; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:14:07 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 09:12:15 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 09:11:39 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] fashion in British India? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I only know from Victorian novels that shawls were a popular item brought or sent home from India. They were copied by manufacturers in Paisley, Scotland, hence the "paisley pattern", originally an Indian design motif. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 04:34:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB59YF74019117 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 04:34:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB59XdTQ000356; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:33:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB59XchB027135; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:33:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB59XZhB027109 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:33:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hB59ZQA15096.; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:35:26 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 09:33:34 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 09:32:55 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18TH/19TH CENTURY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you mean the Goya in the National Gallery, London? http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/goya/p-goya31.htm >>> ladyforbeys@yahoo.com 12/4/03 2:25:33 PM >>> There is a portrait of Dona Isabel de Porcel that I have always found intriguing because her hair color is very similar to mine. One of the decriptions of the painting mention that she is wearing Andalusian costume. Other than the obvious mantilla, what is distinctive about the rest of the dress? Not a lot of it is visible in the painting. ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 04:51:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB59pI74019415 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 04:51:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB59ojTQ001081; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:50:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB59ohhB004675; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:50:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB59ofhB004635 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:50:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C09B519FB72 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 10:50:35 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FD0563F.2000005@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 10:56:15 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] 19th century lacing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I was wondering, in the 16th cent they use spiral lacing but how to they do the lacing in the 19th century??? Since my 1861 body is laced at the back.. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 06:17:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB5BHZ74020482 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:17:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5BGsTQ005150; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 04:16:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5BGqG2011009; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 04:16:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from gizmo08bw.bigpond.com (gizmo08bw.bigpond.com [144.140.70.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB5BGnG2010954 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 04:16:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 32051 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2003 11:14:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bwmam09.bigpond.com) (144.135.24.94) by gizmo08bw.bigpond.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2003 11:14:03 -0000 Received: from 144.139.221.251 ([144.139.221.251]) by bwmam09.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_4_2 138/13981509) with SMTP id 13981509; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 21:16:42 +1000 Message-ID: <008101c3bb21$3d5680e0$fbdd8b90@clarke> From: "Purple Elephant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01bb01c3baca$363f15d0$1902a8c0@duncan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 22:16:23 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:53 AM Subject: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting > http://www-personal.umich.edu/~prayl/cooks/ > > Does anyone know anything about this painting? > What is that on the back of the woman in the pale green dress (with her back to the viewer) with the coiled up braids? It looks almost like she has a ruffle inserted in the seams of her dress. If it's her apron tucked up it's done so very oddly.... Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 09:01:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB5E1s74021659 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:01:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5E18TQ012974; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5E15O7023688; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:01:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta1.sucs.soton.ac.uk (mta1.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5E11O7023644 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk (yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.19]) hB5E0Y3A002008 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:00:35 GMT Received: (from nobody@localhost) by yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17487 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:00:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk: nobody set sender to hbgd103@soton.ac.uk using -f To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fashion in British India? Message-ID: <1070632830.3fd08f7e7288f@webmail.soton.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 14:00:30 +0000 (GMT) From: Hilary Davidson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Originating-IP: 152.78.136.10 X-ISS-MailScanner: Believed to be clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Carolyn Kayta Barrows : > > >I am doing a small research project and would love recommendations for > > >sources on Western fashion in British India and its effect upon fashion > > >and/or ideas in the British mainland. Was the clothing worn by British > > >men and women remarkable in any way? Was it exaggeratedly British or > > >Western or less so? How did fashion reach India and how did those in > the > >British isles perceive it? Thank you for any help. > Are you looking at the whole period or specific years? there is lots of material in the records of the East India Company regarding the mutual influences between the countries. Basically, when they started sending Indian printed fabrics back to England in the 1600's, they really took off. It wasn't long before merchants in England were asking the indian manufacturers to alter their designs slightly to better fit the English taste - often this was removing a red or blue background in favour of the natrual white/cream, and reducing teh size of the patterns somewhat. Thus grew a HUGE trade in Indian printed calicos, chintz, cottons, which were adopted in England, and widely used in dress. there are still many examples of these printed dresses around - the V&A has some on display in the Nehru gallery, and it kicked off the whole printed fabric movement which made the British cotton industry so successful, influenced the silk patterns in the 18th c, and went on to the sprigged, floral muslins of teh early 19thc. Even gowns form the 1830's are made of Indian cottons, or indian inspired prints. I don't know how teh shape or construction of dress was changed, but certainly it had a profound impact on what dress looked like. this is just an overview (sorry to anyone who is more learned in this area), but there is lots of material (as it were) out there. Start with the fabric trade, and it gives a great idea of the mutual influences. Refrences - hmmm, haven't got the details here, but try Product Innovation in Early Modern London, by John Styles (can't remember if it's a chapter or article), and a recent article by Beverly Lemire in Textile, a new English journal launched this year, which discusses the visual influences. Hope this helps! Hilary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 09:27:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB5ERE74021782 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:27:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5EQUTQ016643; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:26:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5EQTO7008058; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:26:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14008.mail.yahoo.com (web14008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB5EQQO7008022 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:26:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031205142626.39798.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 14:26:25 GMT Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:26:25 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <008101c3bb21$3d5680e0$fbdd8b90@clarke> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO those are her sleeves taken off her arms and tid behind her back. I've seen SCA kitchens with this same exact scenario. They look exactly like that. --- Purple Elephant wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ailith" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:53 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting > > > > http://www-personal.umich.edu/~prayl/cooks/ > > > > Does anyone know anything about this painting? > > > What is that on the back of the woman in the pale > green dress > (with her back to the viewer) with the coiled up > braids? It > looks almost like she has a ruffle inserted in the > seams of her > dress. If it's her apron tucked up it's done so very > oddly.... > > Claire > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 09:28:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB5ESd74021791 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:28:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5ERaTQ016744; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:27:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5ERZO7008638; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:27:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB5ERXO7008604 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:27:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031205142733.24118.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 14:27:33 GMT Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:27:33 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Sanabria=20Rosado?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18TH/19TH CENTURY To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO yes. --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > Do you mean the Goya in the National Gallery, > London? > http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/goya/p-goya31.htm > > > >>> ladyforbeys@yahoo.com 12/4/03 2:25:33 PM >>> > There is a portrait of Dona Isabel de Porcel that I > have always found intriguing because her hair color > is > very similar to mine. One of the decriptions of the > painting mention that she is wearing Andalusian > costume. Other than the obvious mantilla, what is > distinctive about the rest of the dress? Not a lot > of > it is visible in the painting. > > ===== > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? > Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for all viruses by the > MessageLabs Email > Security System. For more information on a proactive > email security > service working around the clock, around the globe, > visit > http://www.messagelabs.com > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 09:45:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB5Ejm74021875 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:45:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5EjFTQ017817; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:45:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5EjEO7018418; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:45:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5EjCO7018313 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:45:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.15b.292a0f54 (17377) for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:45:02 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <15b.292a0f54.2d01f3ee@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:45:02 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics-a word of caution To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/4/2003 6:50:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, saragrace@earthlink.net writes: As it turns out their velvet is not 100% silk and they seemed to feel justified in advertising it as such since they didn't believe there was such a thing?!? Couldn't follow the logic on that one! They must not be aware that labeling of fiber content is regulated by federal law--the Textile Products Labeling Act. Not only must fibers be labeled, they are supposed to be listed in order by weight. Thus, a rayon/silk blend velvet should NOT be described as "20% silk, 80% rayon," and most certainly not as all silk. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 10:25:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB5FPs74022091 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 10:25:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5FP8TQ020716; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:25:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5FP6kw013789; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:25:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB5FODkw013105 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:24:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OnxipkWNn6UODMh9Ls9jnm8=">; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 07:24:04 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JGM6VFQC; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 07:24:04 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:07:15 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting Message-ID: <20031205.072333.1788.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-13 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Some of the women in the painting appear to be wearing oversleeves. It looks to me like the fabric is being drawing back from the shoulder points and tied behind her back--looks like her oversleeves have been removed from all points but the shoulders and tied behind her to get them out of the way. Which makes sense if you are cooking. Arlys > What is that on the back of the woman in the pale green dress > (with her back to the viewer) with the coiled up braids? It > looks almost like she has a ruffle inserted in the seams of her > dress. If it's her apron tucked up it's done so very oddly.... > > Claire ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 11:31:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB5GV174022491 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:31:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5GTuTQ027287; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:29:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5GTrMl007498; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:29:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5GTpMl007457 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:29:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip218.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.218]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7AF86AAE4 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:29:49 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 11:00:38 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] another eBay find Message-ID: <3FCF13D6.7973.AD42EB@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005201c3ba6a$17f2e580$695183d1@rmitchellras> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > And my husband found mine somewhere on the net at $35! Some clerk put > the book up at the wrong price. The mistake was discovered about two > days later and the new price was $125. Of course they had to honor the > previous price for the lucky few who recognized the "bargain". ----- And probably one of the reasons they discovered it that soon is that it was rapidly publicized on this list and many of our list members went out and immediately ordered it. With that many people ordering a book that hadn't moved that well before, it was a red flag that there was something wrong. I remember that mistake. Many of my friends ended up getting more than one copy (giving the others away as gifts that year). I didn't get in on it as I already had a copy. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 13:02:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB5I2D74023127 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 13:02:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5I1WTQ007019; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:01:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5I1TKY028617; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:01:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from web60304.mail.yahoo.com (web60304.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.118.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB5I1OKY028456 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:01:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031205180116.89321.qmail@web60304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.52.135.9] by web60304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 10:01:16 PST Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 10:01:16 -0800 (PST) From: Jen Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <008101c3bb21$3d5680e0$fbdd8b90@clarke> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This painting is by Vicenzo Campi, late 16th c. Take a look at this and more of his work on Jennifer's great site: http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/wkclass/portfolio.html Purple Elephant wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:53 AM Subject: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting > http://www-personal.umich.edu/~prayl/cooks/ > > Does anyone know anything about this painting? > What is that on the back of the woman in the pale green dress (with her back to the viewer) with the coiled up braids? It looks almost like she has a ruffle inserted in the seams of her dress. If it's her apron tucked up it's done so very oddly.... Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 14:08:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB5J8k74023470 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:08:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5J7xTQ015370; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5J7sOA000988; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:07:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from pri-dns1.mtco.com (pri-dns1.mtco.com [207.179.200.251]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB5J7mOA000908 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:07:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 8321 invoked by uid 201); 5 Dec 2003 19:05:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO y3r8b8) (207.179.215.207) by ns.mtco.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2003 19:05:12 -0000 Message-ID: <000a01c3bb63$94f8de00$cfd7b3cf@y3r8b8> From: "Sarah Jane Edwards" <1warcry@mtco.com> To: Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 13:11:26 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] New, and a few questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all; I am rather new to the world of early costuming, as my focus on costume has been the 19th century for the past six years. However, since I am getting rather bored with that time period, I am looking into earlier periods and am finding delightful things. Right now I am wanting to make an outfit from the 11th century, (around the time of Henry the First) but am rather confused. (So far, most of my research has been through the web). The skirts seem rather full on womens dress. Would this fullness result from triangular gores set into a rectangular skirt, or would it be cut from a wide piece of fabric in a semi-circular shape? I have seen many sites with patterns for early gowns, but they call for the large widths of fabric. From my own 19th century knowledge, I know that fabrics were much narrower then than they are now, so if that was true in earlier periods, the inserted gore thing makes more sense. I'm also wondering about lacing, in some images I've seen the gowns seem rather closely fitted at the upper body, but the skirt flares out from the waist down, to be in soft folds around the feet. This would seem to me to necessiate some sort of opening to enable the woman to put her gown on. Where would such an opening (if there indeed would be one) be located? I'm assuming laces would be used to fasten it shut, but if I am wrong please feel free to correct me with reproof and instruction. :) Oh, one more thing. What kind of neckline would be appropriate? I've read that earlier gowns had higher 'keyhole' necklines, and they got lower as the years progressed. I was looking at a site today that had images from the 13th century, and the neckline seemed to be a very low boat shape. Would, for this kind of neckline, a filler of some sort have been worn to protect from cold? I am striving for authenticity, and don't want to start on my various layers until I am fairly sure I am using period techniques. Please forgive me for what I'm sure seems such a basic question to you all, I do appreciate any help you can give me! Sarah 1warcry@mtco.com http://web2k.mtco.com/ldepse _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 14:25:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB5JPW74023537 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:25:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5JOgTQ017605; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:24:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5JOfOA017094; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:24:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5JOYOA016934 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:24:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.63.25c7921a (4184) for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:24:21 -0500 (EST) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <63.25c7921a.2d023565@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:24:21 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe she has oversleeves tied behind her back to keep them out of the way. Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 15:46:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB5KkZ74025388 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 15:46:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5KjeTQ026829; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 13:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5KjUPb029805; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 13:45:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5KjQPb029753 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 13:45:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip184.207-173-125.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.125.184]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC1D36A87B for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:45:24 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:45:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics-a word of caution Message-ID: <3FD07DE4.11696.1069CE1@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <15b.292a0f54.2d01f3ee@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In a message dated 12/4/2003 6:50:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, > saragrace@earthlink.net writes: > As it turns out their > velvet is not 100% silk and they seemed to feel justified in > advertising it as such since they didn't believe there was such a > thing?!? Couldn't follow the logic on that one! They must not be > aware that labeling of fiber content is regulated by federal law--the > Textile Products Labeling Act. Not only must fibers be labeled, they > are supposed to be listed in order by weight. Thus, a rayon/silk > blend velvet should NOT be described as "20% silk, 80% rayon," and > most certainly not as all silk. I've noticed a lot of "100% silks" turning out to be silk/rayon blends. They get away with it by saying that the pile is silk, and that's where the fabric gets it's name from. (However, even as part of the backing, rayon can have a significant impact on how the fabric behaves.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 16:33:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB5LXf74025741 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:33:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5LWsTQ002756; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:32:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5LWnoV012912; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:32:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5LWgoV012754 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:32:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07910 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:03:28 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:03:28 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FCFFA61.7F37E1B0@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Where did I go? (was: 15th c. gown, saints, Memling) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a note to explain my sudden silence -- yesterday I got a huge rush deadline project dumped on me and it will be a while before I can come up for air. There are four or five messages on current threads I want to answer, but the conversation will have to go on without me for a couple of days. If it's still alive when I come back, I'll jump back in. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 18:06:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB5N6574027084 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:06:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5N06TQ013460; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB5MxxSZ003340; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB5MxoSZ003157 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 15:59:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net (HELO AngelaFLazear) (angelalazear@sbcglobal.net@63.202.198.62 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2003 22:59:48 -0000 Message-ID: <00ba01c3bb83$9531e1d0$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "angelalazear" To: Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 15:00:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [h-cost] Age of Charlemagne - Carolingian Dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone have any great pictorial reference books they would recommend to me for researching this period? I've got some good references on Byzantine Dress, but this is a bit earlier than most typical medieval periods. This is for theatrical research, and once I have a good handle on the period, I will probably turn it into a very loosely based translation of the clothes in colors ala our dear Teddy! However, I would like a good working knowledge of the clothing of France in 815 AD as a starting reference point. thanks in advance angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 20:27:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB61RK74027895 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 20:27:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB61QYTQ000884; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:26:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB61QWKR019721; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:26:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB61QUKR019703 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:26:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-166.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.166])hB61QQm9023302 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 19:26:29 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031205165925.058f8f00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:00:59 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] fashion in British India? In-Reply-To: <1070632830.3fd08f7e7288f@webmail.soton.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Are you looking at the whole period or specific years? there is lots of >material in the records of the East India Company regarding the mutual >influences between the countries. I was looking at shape and style, not fabric. I think shape and style were relatively un-affected on both sides. But you're certainly right about fabric. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 21:32:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB62WQ74028201 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 21:32:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB62VlTQ005313; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 19:31:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB62VhVI026198; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 19:31:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms-smtp-03-eri0.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.texas.rr.com [24.93.47.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB62VbVI026140 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 19:31:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from Isabeau (cs662559-17.houston.rr.com [66.25.59.17]) hB62UrKV024145 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 20:30:53 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <002301c3bba1$134bcf50$0302a8c0@Isabeau> From: "HL Isabeau Quiquandon" To: Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 20:31:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] V&A X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hB62WQ74028201 Status: RO I know this has been asked before and I apologize for doing so again. But does anyone have the contact info for the person at the V&A in-charge of the costume collection? I've emailed the addy listed on their website but have received no response. Thanks in advance the help. Isabeau Q. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 5 22:12:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB63C974028356 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 22:12:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB63BWTQ007497; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 20:11:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB63BRPH015913; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 20:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB63BMPH015834 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 20:11:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from p225-nas4.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.208.225] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ASSql-0006SL-00; Sat, 06 Dec 2003 16:11:19 +1300 Message-ID: <004501c3bba6$99148550$e1d0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FD07DE4.11696.1069CE1@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics-a word of caution Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 16:11:08 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I've noticed a lot of "100% silks" turning out to be silk/rayon > blends. They get away with it by saying that the pile is silk, and > that's where the fabric gets it's name from. (However, even as part > of the backing, rayon can have a significant impact on how the fabric > behaves.) It's the other way around isn't it? Which is why you can acid etch the pile but leave the backing mostly fine. Though there is still a componant of rayon/viscose in the ground which can also be eaten. http://www.fabrics.net/etch.asp http://www.scarlet-zebra.com/Instructions/Devore1.htm And also why the labels that tell the truth say rayon/viscose 70% silk 30% or other such similar figure. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 6 01:26:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB66QH74028819 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 01:26:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB66PNTQ017651; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 23:25:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB66PKNc014555; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 23:25:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB66PINc014530 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 23:25:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [209.63.24.131]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC506AA00 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 22:25:16 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 22:25:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A Message-ID: <3FD105C8.2608.3196FCF@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002301c3bba1$134bcf50$0302a8c0@Isabeau> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I know this has been asked before and I apologize for doing so again. > But does anyone have the contact info for the person at the V&A > in-charge of the costume collection? I've emailed the addy listed on > their website but have received no response. When I had my time in the V&A, the person who ws corresponding with me was Linda Woolley (Miss) who was the assistant curator. That was in 1999. The only contact information I had from them was the mailing address and telephone numbers for the V&A. I believe the telephone number has changed since then but at that time it was 0171-938 8500 with the fax # 0171-938 8379. In their "Facts and Guidelines" for the Textiles and Dress Department it lists 0171-938 8420, 1, 2, 4 and 5 ("5 lines") At that time they seemed to prefer snail mail. (I emailed, they snailed me back instead.) . Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 6 01:29:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB66Tj74028829 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 01:29:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB66R4TQ017725; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 23:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB66R3Nc015300; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 23:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB66PJNc014537 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 23:25:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [209.63.24.131]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 112F56A95B for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 22:25:18 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 22:25:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] new site for silk fabrics-a word of caution Message-ID: <3FD105C7.30920.3196ED5@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <004501c3bba6$99148550$e1d0adcb@michaela> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I've noticed a lot of "100% silks" turning out to be silk/rayon > > blends. They get away with it by saying that the pile is silk, and > > that's where the fabric gets it's name from. (However, even as part > > of the backing, rayon can have a significant impact on how the > > fabric behaves.) > > It's the other way around isn't it? Which is why you can acid etch the > pile but leave the backing mostly fine. Though there is still a > componant of rayon/viscose in the ground which can also be eaten. > http://www.fabrics.net/etch.asp > http://www.scarlet-zebra.com/Instructions/Devore1.htm I believe that you may be correct. But either way, they think that because part of it is "100% silk" that it should be considered as such. > And also why the labels that tell the truth say rayon/viscose 70% silk > 30% or other such similar figure. It depends on the manufacturer from what I can tell. However, I haven't found any that were truly 100% silk. Every time it turns out to have some viscose/rayon in it. Sigh. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 6 07:48:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB6Cme74023331 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 07:48:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB6ClxTQ006205; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 05:47:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB6ClqIZ026596; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 05:47:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from bh2.bargainhosts.co.uk (bh2.bargainhost.co.uk [80.71.2.98] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB6ClgIa026526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 05:47:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from public4-port1-6-cust128.cosh.broadband.ntl.com ([81.111.188.128] helo=Jon) by bh2.bargainhosts.co.uk with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ASbqQ-0004VI-UI for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 06 Dec 2003 12:47:34 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c3bbf7$4d7f2400$80bc6f51@Jon> From: To: References: <200312051802.hB5I27KZ029200@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 12:48:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - bh2.bargainhosts.co.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - c17th.org X-DCC-x-mailer.co.uk-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] Help With a Vintage Vogue Pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could any kind soul help me please. I'm making an evening gown for my daughter for a very important Xmas dinner next friday. The pattern she chose, (this week!!!!). Is a Vintage Vogue from 1931, pattern number 2241. http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/voguepatterns/shop.cgi?s.item.2241=x&TI =20006&pageNum=2&M=&UK=31551149 Has anyone used this pattern? I'm having problems fitting as the armholes seem huge! thanks,regards Joy (who should have stuck to handsewing!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 6 22:49:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB73nT74026495 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 22:49:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB73mdTQ027680; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 20:48:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB73mRPX024824; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 20:48:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB73mOPY024782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 20:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB73mlUZ022408 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 22:48:47 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB73mlnR022406 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 22:48:47 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 22:48:47 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312062248.47172.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mattel is actually selling a "Princess of the Vikings" collectible Barbie that wears a winged helmet and breastplate (over a dress with filmy flowing sleeves, yet). Even the proponents of the "two panel" apron dress don't misrepresent Viking costume this badly: http://www.barbiecollectibles.com/shop/product.aspx?product_id=60452&shelfID=150011 -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 02:47:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB77lH74027045 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:47:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB77jJTQ010075; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 00:45:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB77jG1q009922; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 00:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB77jE1q009880 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 00:45:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB78r9gI008693 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 00:53:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3FD2D947.5020706@misc.com> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 23:39:51 -0800 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths References: <200312062248.47172.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good Lord, what a load of Wagnerian crap!!!! T. Eacker Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > Mattel is actually selling a "Princess of the Vikings" collectible Barbie that > wears a winged helmet and breastplate (over a dress with filmy flowing > sleeves, yet). Even the proponents of the "two panel" apron dress don't > misrepresent Viking costume this badly: > > http://www.barbiecollectibles.com/shop/product.aspx?product_id=60452&shelfID=150011 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 02:59:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB77xJ74027076 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:59:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB77wrTQ010441; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 00:58:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB77wo5S015773; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 00:58:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB77wk5T015702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 00:58:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB77v6PX029869 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:57:06 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 07 Dec 2003 02:57:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FD2DDF0.8010301@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 02:59:44 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths References: <200312062248.47172.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200312062248.47172.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > Mattel is actually selling a "Princess of the Vikings" collectible Barbie The other barbies in the "world" collection are a hoot. I would have *loved* to have them as a kid. But I think I got more out of trying to sew my own costumes for the doll I did have. Look under "Fantasy" on those pages for Barbie-as-romance-heroine, and Ken as, hmm, Fabio or somesuch. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 04:07:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB797l74027422 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 04:07:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB797BTQ014016; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:07:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7979NS013900; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:07:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7974NT013841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB797TUZ023988 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 04:07:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB797STx023986 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 04:07:28 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 04:07:27 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200312062248.47172.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FD2DDF0.8010301@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <3FD2DDF0.8010301@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312070407.28419.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 07 December 2003 02:59 am, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > Mattel is actually selling a "Princess of the Vikings" collectible Barbie > > The other barbies in the "world" collection are a hoot. I would have > *loved* to have them as a kid. But I think I got more out of trying to > sew my own costumes for the doll I did have. Look under "Fantasy" on > those pages for Barbie-as-romance-heroine, and Ken as, hmm, Fabio or > somesuch. Yes, I looked at some of them. If anyone else does so, note that there's an Arwen and Aragorn Barbie and Ken featured. :-) I think that the worst Barbies costume-wise are the ones dealing with costumes that are purely historical. The "Princess of [Ancient] Greece Barbie was almost as bad as Viking Barbie, but the Japanese Barbie and the African Barbie (they did specify which country she was from, but I've forgotten) were not half bad, all things considered. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 04:09:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB799774027425 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 04:09:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7986TQ014053; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:08:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7986NS014206; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7983NT014184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:08:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB798SUZ024013 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 04:08:28 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB798RwY024011 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 04:08:27 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 04:08:27 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200312062248.47172.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FD2D947.5020706@misc.com> In-Reply-To: <3FD2D947.5020706@misc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312070408.27518.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 07 December 2003 02:39 am, Theresa Eacker wrote: > Good Lord, what a load of Wagnerian crap!!!! Exactly. And Bugs Bunny was better looking in the role. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 04:18:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB79IK74027702 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 04:18:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB79HmTQ014329; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:17:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB79HkNS018062; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:17:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB79HiNS018042 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:17:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hB79KB209683 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 01:20:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 01:20:11 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200312070920.hB79KB209683@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] real viking fashion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've finally had time to troll through the various archeological links (being home ill does that). Came across this one which should be of interest to those doing viking-era clothing: http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh/ART18650.html Of interest is a good photo of a pair of tortise brooches found at the burial site, and a photo of the _backs_ of the brooches. --Lee _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 04:25:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB79Pb74002819 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 04:25:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB79OnTQ014648; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB79OmNS020886; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:24:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB79OkNS020870 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:24:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-163-192-73.mn.rr.com [24.163.192.73])hB79OhH7013165 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 03:24:44 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20031207032737.02f1beb0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 03:29:47 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A In-Reply-To: <002301c3bba1$134bcf50$0302a8c0@Isabeau> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I was trying to make an appointment, I used the email on the webpage. It took awhile to hear back from them but eventually Susan North (head curator?) emailed me. She then set up the appointment and one of the assistant curators were there for my appointment - which one depends on what you are viewing. Good luck, it will probably just take some time. cheers, DAnielle At 08:31 PM 12/5/2003 -0600, you wrote: >I know this has been asked before and I apologize for doing so again. But >does anyone have the contact info for the person at the V&A in-charge of >the costume collection? I've emailed the addy listed on their website but >have received no response. > >Thanks in advance the help. > >Isabeau Q. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 05:20:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB7AKp74003055 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 05:20:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7AKHTQ017063; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 03:20:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7AKF0M009511; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 03:20:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7AKA0M009472 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 03:20:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ASw1J-000NBN-0W; Sun, 07 Dec 2003 10:20:09 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 10:18:48 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] New, and a few questions References: <000a01c3bb63$94f8de00$cfd7b3cf@y3r8b8> In-Reply-To: <000a01c3bb63$94f8de00$cfd7b3cf@y3r8b8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello and welcome to the easy stuff. I wouldn't put myself up as a great expert, but I'll try to give you an introduction, and I'm sure others will join in and correct me where I'm wrong. I have to say I'm quite awed by someone who starts 19th century and moves down to early medieval, but I expect you're struggling with the lack of sources and patterns. First thing, I would recommend you to this site: http://www.virtue.to/articles/#Clothing and especially the basic garb instructions. Second thing, never assume because they did or didn't have or know something in the 19th century, it was the same in the 11th or 12th. Take that back another 800 years and you have Romans, who knew a lot of stuff that was then lost in Western Europe for centuries. Sarah Jane Edwards <1warcry@mtco.com> wrote >Hello all; > > I am rather new to the world of early costuming, as my focus on costume >has been the 19th century for the past six years. However, since I am >getting rather bored with that time period, I am looking into earlier >periods and am finding delightful things. > > Right now I am wanting to make an outfit from the 11th century, (around >the time of Henry the First) I assume you mean 1100s, 12th century. >but am rather confused. (So far, most of my >research has been through the web). The skirts seem rather full on womens >dress. Would this fullness result from triangular gores set into a >rectangular skirt, or would it be cut from a wide piece of fabric in a >semi-circular shape? I have seen many sites with patterns for early gowns, >but they call for the large widths of fabric. From my own 19th century >knowledge, I know that fabrics were much narrower then than they are now, so >if that was true in earlier periods, the inserted gore thing makes more >sense. > The basic dress and tunic shape is a rectangular front and back with gores, either just at the sides or sides and front and back. The basic dress does not have a waist seam (I'll come on to the controversies in a moment), but you can get a lot of skirt from gores. I have seen patterns that cut the whole front and the whole back together. However, in my experience, that leads to a dress that looks like the 2-D picture - triangular. You want to cut the gores separately so that you have a straight grain all the way down from under your arm to the floor. > I'm also wondering about lacing, in some images I've seen the gowns seem >rather closely fitted at the upper body, but the skirt flares out from the >waist down, to be in soft folds around the feet. This would seem to me to >necessiate some sort of opening to enable the woman to put her gown on. >Where would such an opening (if there indeed would be one) be located? I'm >assuming laces would be used to fasten it shut, but if I am wrong please >feel free to correct me with reproof and instruction. :) > This depends which type of gown you are looking at, and the shape of the person. As recently discussed here, without an opening, the waist cannot be any smaller than your bust, since it has to go over your head and past your bust. But you have the front and back sewn directly together as far as the waist (or slightly above, depending how fast you need to flare for your tummy and hips) so it is more fitted at the waist and then flares. From perhaps 1230-ish they do start lacing to get a better fit around the torso. We can't really tell whether this is done with an opening or just by pulling all the fabric in under the lacing, but if there is an opening it's most likely to be at the sides. It's almost certainly not an opening all the way up to the neckline - you still have to pull it over your head, but it can expand as it goes past your bust and then you lace it tight around your ribs and waist. Now, you may be looking at pictures of bliauts, the ones that appear to have a separate, tight bodice and heavily pleated skirt. Nobody knows how these were made - we're not even sure that the word "bliaut" refers to this style in period, or that they really existed rather than being a creation of a particular style of sculpture. The idea of a waist seam is very controversial, since it doesn't appear in any other garment until the 15th century. And the idea of a leather corset, which you will see put forward, is generally considered nowadays to be Right Out. The best guess, in my view, is that extra fabric in the torso is tightly pulled in by lacing, and the pattern of gathering that this creates has been exaggerated by the artistic style of the time. But I haven't tried to do one. I think some people on the list have - can we have the benefit of your experience here, people? >Oh, one more thing. What kind of neckline would be appropriate? I've read >that earlier gowns had higher 'keyhole' necklines, and they got lower as the >years progressed. I was looking at a site today that had images from the >13th century, and the neckline seemed to be a very low boat shape. Would, >for this kind of neckline, a filler of some sort have been worn to protect >from cold? > There's an answer to that in the sources. It's very difficult to tell what the neckline is on most female outfits of the period, because it's covered by their headcovering. Veils/wimples/headrails are mostly still large and draped around the front of the neck until the late 12th century, so there's your filler. Later, the artwork all shows veils just covering the head and hanging to the back, but I'm sure on a cold day they would pick up a spare length of cloth and wrap it round to keep warm. Fashion photography never shows the model in her big coat and woolly hat between takes, after all :-) > I am striving for authenticity, and don't want to start on my various >layers until I am fairly sure I am using period techniques. > > Please forgive me for what I'm sure seems such a basic question to you >all, I do appreciate any help you can give me! > >Sarah > >1warcry@mtco.com >http://web2k.mtco.com/ldepse > I hope this gives you a start, don't be afraid to come back if you have more questions. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 05:21:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB7ALu74003059 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 05:21:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7AKrTQ017147; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 03:20:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7AKr0M009712; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 03:20:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7AKA0M009474 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 03:20:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ASw1J-000NBN-0W; Sun, 07 Dec 2003 10:20:09 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 10:18:48 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] New, and a few questions References: <000a01c3bb63$94f8de00$cfd7b3cf@y3r8b8> In-Reply-To: <000a01c3bb63$94f8de00$cfd7b3cf@y3r8b8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello and welcome to the easy stuff. I wouldn't put myself up as a great expert, but I'll try to give you an introduction, and I'm sure others will join in and correct me where I'm wrong. I have to say I'm quite awed by someone who starts 19th century and moves down to early medieval, but I expect you're struggling with the lack of sources and patterns. First thing, I would recommend you to this site: http://www.virtue.to/articles/#Clothing and especially the basic garb instructions. Second thing, never assume because they did or didn't have or know something in the 19th century, it was the same in the 11th or 12th. Take that back another 800 years and you have Romans, who knew a lot of stuff that was then lost in Western Europe for centuries. Sarah Jane Edwards <1warcry@mtco.com> wrote >Hello all; > > I am rather new to the world of early costuming, as my focus on costume >has been the 19th century for the past six years. However, since I am >getting rather bored with that time period, I am looking into earlier >periods and am finding delightful things. > > Right now I am wanting to make an outfit from the 11th century, (around >the time of Henry the First) I assume you mean 1100s, 12th century. >but am rather confused. (So far, most of my >research has been through the web). The skirts seem rather full on womens >dress. Would this fullness result from triangular gores set into a >rectangular skirt, or would it be cut from a wide piece of fabric in a >semi-circular shape? I have seen many sites with patterns for early gowns, >but they call for the large widths of fabric. From my own 19th century >knowledge, I know that fabrics were much narrower then than they are now, so >if that was true in earlier periods, the inserted gore thing makes more >sense. > The basic dress and tunic shape is a rectangular front and back with gores, either just at the sides or sides and front and back. The basic dress does not have a waist seam (I'll come on to the controversies in a moment), but you can get a lot of skirt from gores. I have seen patterns that cut the whole front and the whole back together. However, in my experience, that leads to a dress that looks like the 2-D picture - triangular. You want to cut the gores separately so that you have a straight grain all the way down from under your arm to the floor. > I'm also wondering about lacing, in some images I've seen the gowns seem >rather closely fitted at the upper body, but the skirt flares out from the >waist down, to be in soft folds around the feet. This would seem to me to >necessiate some sort of opening to enable the woman to put her gown on. >Where would such an opening (if there indeed would be one) be located? I'm >assuming laces would be used to fasten it shut, but if I am wrong please >feel free to correct me with reproof and instruction. :) > This depends which type of gown you are looking at, and the shape of the person. As recently discussed here, without an opening, the waist cannot be any smaller than your bust, since it has to go over your head and past your bust. But you have the front and back sewn directly together as far as the waist (or slightly above, depending how fast you need to flare for your tummy and hips) so it is more fitted at the waist and then flares. From perhaps 1230-ish they do start lacing to get a better fit around the torso. We can't really tell whether this is done with an opening or just by pulling all the fabric in under the lacing, but if there is an opening it's most likely to be at the sides. It's almost certainly not an opening all the way up to the neckline - you still have to pull it over your head, but it can expand as it goes past your bust and then you lace it tight around your ribs and waist. Now, you may be looking at pictures of bliauts, the ones that appear to have a separate, tight bodice and heavily pleated skirt. Nobody knows how these were made - we're not even sure that the word "bliaut" refers to this style in period, or that they really existed rather than being a creation of a particular style of sculpture. The idea of a waist seam is very controversial, since it doesn't appear in any other garment until the 15th century. And the idea of a leather corset, which you will see put forward, is generally considered nowadays to be Right Out. The best guess, in my view, is that extra fabric in the torso is tightly pulled in by lacing, and the pattern of gathering that this creates has been exaggerated by the artistic style of the time. But I haven't tried to do one. I think some people on the list have - can we have the benefit of your experience here, people? >Oh, one more thing. What kind of neckline would be appropriate? I've read >that earlier gowns had higher 'keyhole' necklines, and they got lower as the >years progressed. I was looking at a site today that had images from the >13th century, and the neckline seemed to be a very low boat shape. Would, >for this kind of neckline, a filler of some sort have been worn to protect >from cold? > There's an answer to that in the sources. It's very difficult to tell what the neckline is on most female outfits of the period, because it's covered by their headcovering. Veils/wimples/headrails are mostly still large and draped around the front of the neck until the late 12th century, so there's your filler. Later, the artwork all shows veils just covering the head and hanging to the back, but I'm sure on a cold day they would pick up a spare length of cloth and wrap it round to keep warm. Fashion photography never shows the model in her big coat and woolly hat between takes, after all :-) > I am striving for authenticity, and don't want to start on my various >layers until I am fairly sure I am using period techniques. > > Please forgive me for what I'm sure seems such a basic question to you >all, I do appreciate any help you can give me! > >Sarah > >1warcry@mtco.com >http://web2k.mtco.com/ldepse > I hope this gives you a start, don't be afraid to come back if you have more questions. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 05:22:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB7AM474003062 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 05:22:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7AKlTQ017087; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 03:20:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7AKl0M009657; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 03:20:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7AKA0M009475 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 03:20:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ASw1J-000NBM-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Dec 2003 10:20:10 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 20:27:03 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote > >On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Jean Waddie wrote: > >> Robin, Have you ever come across a Descent from the Cross from >> Onze-Lieve-Vrouw ter Poterie in Bruges? It has the most over-the-top, >> fantasy Magdalen I have ever seen, but I couldn't get a picture >> (sniff!) It must be round about 1500, and IIRC, she is wearing a very >> exaggerated gable headdress with more turban-ish stuff on top! And >> she's just sitting at the foot of the painting looking decorative, >> completely ignoring all the people lifting the body down and the >> Virgin fainting and everything. > >Been there! Seen it! Got the photo! I use it in my saints-dress talk when >I'm showing examples of Magdalene as an "exotic." She's a beaut -- the >headdress is sort of a turban with these big gold things on the front and >sides and back, plus she's got an overdress split down the side and >fastened with a brooch. Though she's not quite uninvolved from the action >-- she's praying, facing the Virgin (her back to Christ!). The other two >women have some rather wild headgear too, but Magdalen's the flashiest. > >I didn't have any trouble taking photos at the OLVP Museum, but I was >there with a bunch of medievalists on an arranged trip, so that may have >helped. Also, I don't use a flash. > >--Robin > Do you have the name of the painter, or is it Anon? I went on a very wet Friday afternoon, off-season, I was the only person there and I had the impression it was the caretaker rather than a curator manning the ticket desk, and he was just watching to make sure I didn't touch anything. Not a comfortable and welcoming experience, although the place itself was fab. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 10:44:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB7FiF74008592 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 10:44:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7FhVTQ002374; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 08:43:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7FhSBZ022803; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 08:43:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7FhQBZ022794 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 08:43:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-34-183.jps.net ([209.165.34.183] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AT149-0002Yh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Dec 2003 07:43:25 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01c3bcd9$cac466e0$b722a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 07:50:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Cornell's online collection - mostly 18c X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hB7FiF74008592 Status: RO This site is supposed to have over 600 photos and 5000 records from Cornell's collection. Have fun! http://char.txa.cornell.edu/treasures/index.html Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 11:07:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB7G7V74008644 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 11:07:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7G6qTQ003753; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 09:06:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7G6mA0004049; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 09:06:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7G6jA0003996 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 09:06:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-34-183.jps.net ([209.165.34.183] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AT1Qi-0006Q3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Dec 2003 08:06:45 -0800 Message-ID: <01a201c3bcdd$0dd282c0$b722a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] feedback on commercial pattern Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 08:13:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rima wrote on 10/15/03: > > Which brings me to my REAL question. A couple of years ago I was on > this list, and someone mentioned that they were writing a "Geometry > for Non-Pro Pattern Makers" book. I NEED this book! Please > please, if you're out there, and you've published, let me send you > money! ;-D Or if you're still in process, can I please be your > proof reader??? > > I've gotten pretty good at freehanding a sleeve cap to fit an > armhole, but wouldn't it be better if I could just do the math????? Rima, you can buy a plastic french curves to eliminate freehanding sleeve caps etc. Just about any fabric store sells these things. I also have a bendable lead filled "yard stick" that has come in handy. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 11:41:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB7Gfb74008754 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 11:41:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7Gf1TQ006017; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 09:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7Gf0A0020486; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 09:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7GevA0020463 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 09:40:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-165-34-183.jps.net ([209.165.34.183] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AT1xo-0004tR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Dec 2003 08:40:57 -0800 Message-ID: <03fc01c3bce1$d4f38b20$b722a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: The poison dress was Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabeth Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 08:47:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail wrote on Nov. 13th: > 1) THE POISON DRESS!!!!!! A very fun idea for a bad fantasy movie or an > Alexandre Dumas-style historical intrigue. A ridiculous episode for anything > "historic." Actually this does have some historical inspiration. Janet Arnold in QEWU on page 179 writes: "In 1568 Walsingham had a report from Franchiotto, an Italian, about the danger of poison and to have great care for the Queen. When Platter visited Nonsuch in 1599, he noted that 'but a short time before, an attempt had been made to poison the queen by smearing powder on the chair she was accustomed to sit and hold her hands on', and that she 'refused to allow anyone into her apartments without mylord Admiral's command. It seems likely that the work rooms in which most of the Queen's clothes were made were at the Great Wardrobe, near the livery tailoring workrooms. Her hats and shoes may have been made in the craftsmen's own workships, but security would have been much easier in a restricted area. No doubt is was Ralph Hope's job to examine all the work and gifts of clothing carefully to make sure nothing was poisoned." Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 13:56:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB7Iun74009320 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:56:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7IuDTQ014062; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 11:56:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7IuAdx024492; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 11:56:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7Iu7e0024472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 11:56:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB7IuXUZ003253 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:56:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB7IuX7v003251 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:56:33 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] real viking fashion Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:56:32 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200312070920.hB79KB209683@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200312070920.hB79KB209683@gw.retro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312071356.32705.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 07 December 2003 04:20 am, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > I've finally had time to troll through the various archeological links > (being home ill does that). Came across this one which should be of > interest to those doing viking-era clothing: > http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh/ART18650.html > Of interest is a good photo of a pair of tortise brooches found at the > burial site, and a photo of the _backs_ of the brooches. Thanks much. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 14:50:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB7JoC74009453 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:50:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7JnbTQ017342; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:49:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7Jnadx020708; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:49:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.159]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7JnVdx020671 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:49:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-127-57.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.127.57] (may be forged))3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BLO28604; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:49:25 GMT Message-ID: <001501c3bcfb$ac8de760$397f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:51:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Caraco Picture X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could somebody please point me in the direction of a picture circa 1853 of a Caraco Please ? Thanks Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 15:11:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB7KB174009509 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:11:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7K7lTQ018131; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:07:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7K7gsK029551; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:07:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7K7bsK029494 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:07:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPJ008C1JWMZ4@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Dec 2003 12:07:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 12:05:07 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths In-reply-to: <200312070407.28419.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031207120356.0265c6a0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3FD2DDF0.8010301@thibault.org> <200312062248.47172.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FD2DDF0.8010301@thibault.org> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:07 AM 12/7/2003 -0500, you wrote: >but the Japanese Barbie and the African >Barbie (they did specify which country she was from, but I've forgotten) were >not half bad, all things considered. I bought the Japanese Barbie from Toys R Us when they were on sale. I just had to, as I loved them as a kid and was glad to see something of my own heritage in a Barbie. I only wish they could make the face less western and more Asian. But otherwise, it really isn't too bad. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 16:30:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB7LUP74009695 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:30:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7LTcTQ022726; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7LTYjK009462; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:29:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from gizmo04ps.bigpond.com (gizmo04ps.bigpond.com [144.140.71.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB7LTUjK009411 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:29:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 29100 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2003 21:28:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO psmam12.bigpond.com) (144.135.25.103) by gizmo04ps.bigpond.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2003 21:28:02 -0000 Received: from 144.139.221.133 ([144.139.221.133]) by psmam12.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_4_2 228/11504684) with SMTP id 11504684; Mon, 08 Dec 2003 07:29:21 +1000 Message-ID: <007401c3bd09$2e0d3a40$85dd8b90@clarke> From: "Purple Elephant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000a01c3bb63$94f8de00$cfd7b3cf@y3r8b8> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New, and a few questions Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:29:13 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Waddie" To: "Historical Costume" Cc: Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New, and a few questions > Sarah Jane Edwards <1warcry@mtco.com> wrote > >Hello all; > > > > > > Right now I am wanting to make an outfit from the 11th century, (around > >the time of Henry the First) > I assume you mean 1100s, 12th century. Henry I's reign began at the end of the 11th century I think, so it just qualifies. Henry II began in 1152 or so, if that what you're thinking of.... > >but am rather confused. (So far, most of my > >research has been through the web). The skirts seem rather full on womens > >dress. Would this fullness result from triangular gores set into a > >rectangular skirt, or would it be cut from a wide piece of fabric in a > >semi-circular shape? I have seen many sites with patterns for early gowns, > >but they call for the large widths of fabric. From my own 19th century > >knowledge, I know that fabrics were much narrower then than they are now, so > >if that was true in earlier periods, the inserted gore thing makes more > >sense. > > > The basic dress and tunic shape is a rectangular front and back with > gores, either just at the sides or sides and front and back. The basic > dress does not have a waist seam (I'll come on to the controversies in a > moment), but you can get a lot of skirt from gores. I have seen > patterns that cut the whole front and the whole back together. However, > in my experience, that leads to a dress that looks like the 2-D picture > - triangular. You want to cut the gores separately so that you have a > straight grain all the way down from under your arm to the floor. Depending on your fabric width, a combination of both can work ok. > > > I'm also wondering about lacing, in some images I've seen the gowns seem > >rather closely fitted at the upper body, but the skirt flares out from the > >waist down, to be in soft folds around the feet. This would seem to me to > >necessiate some sort of opening to enable the woman to put her gown on. > >Where would such an opening (if there indeed would be one) be located? I'm > >assuming laces would be used to fasten it shut, but if I am wrong please > >feel free to correct me with reproof and instruction. :) > > > This depends which type of gown you are looking at, and the shape of the > person. As recently discussed here, without an opening, the waist > cannot be any smaller than your bust, since it has to go over your head > and past your bust. But you have the front and back sewn directly > together as far as the waist (or slightly above, depending how fast you > need to flare for your tummy and hips) so it is more fitted at the waist > and then flares. > > From perhaps 1230-ish they do start lacing to get a better fit around Errr...do you mean 1130? I think they may even have started a bit earlier, as even a bit into the 11th century you see some attempt at shaping to the waist, although this may be the sort of thing Jean describes above rather than lacing per se. > the torso. We can't really tell whether this is done with an opening or > just by pulling all the fabric in under the lacing, but if there is an > opening it's most likely to be at the sides. It's almost certainly not Definitely agree there. Western Europe doesn't seem to have gotten the idea of a (complete) CF or CB opening until the 14th century. > an opening all the way up to the neckline - you still have to pull it > over your head, but it can expand as it goes past your bust and then you > lace it tight around your ribs and waist. Imagine if you will two rectangles - you would sew them together down the sides and have an unfitted tunic. Now cut a curve between the waist and the bust that is roughly you-shaped. This curve was left open and then sewn or laced closed after putting it on. If the shoulders are wide enough and the gown cut fairly tightly across the under/lower bust (about the level of the armpit whatever that works out to on you) you get a nice 'pocket' for the bust and a fairly close fit around the ribs. > Now, you may be looking at pictures of bliauts, the ones that appear to > have a separate, tight bodice and heavily pleated skirt. Nobody knows > how these were made - we're not even sure that the word "bliaut" refers > to this style in period, or that they really existed rather than being a > creation of a particular style of sculpture. The idea of a waist seam > is very controversial, since it doesn't appear in any other garment > until the 15th century. And the idea of a leather corset, which you > will see put forward, is generally considered nowadays to be Right Out. > The best guess, in my view, is that extra fabric in the torso is > tightly pulled in by lacing, and the pattern of gathering that this > creates has been exaggerated by the artistic style of the time. But I > haven't tried to do one. I think some people on the list have - can we > have the benefit of your experience here, people? I have found that you don't need to do much beyond making a tunic style gown with the sides cut out and laced to get something that looks relatively like the pictures and sculptures. You don't even need the extra length in the torso to get the wrinkling (unless you want an awful lot of wrinkling), because the effect of lacing such a crude style of fit will give you that anyway (as anyone who has tried to make a tight fitting bodice without boning or very very careful fit can probably tell you). Also, the non-separate skirt, with plenty of inserted gores falls much like the pattern of folds you see in artwork (although they definitely exaggerated there a bit). The lacing helps here again as it kind of gives a bit of a hitch to the skirts at the side and you get that kind of u-shaped drape across the lap area. On the other hand, some people are fairly convinced that you need a waist seam for this style, and the arguments are probably just as good either way. > > > >Oh, one more thing. What kind of neckline would be appropriate? I've read > >that earlier gowns had higher 'keyhole' necklines, and they got lower as the > >years progressed. I was looking at a site today that had images from the > >13th century, and the neckline seemed to be a very low boat shape. Would, > >for this kind of neckline, a filler of some sort have been worn to protect > >from cold? Relatively high keyhole necklines seem pretty universal in the 12th century. For the low boatshaped ones you're talking about you're looking very much towards the end of the 13th century. There was a lot of neckline variety in the 13th century, but there's a big shift in clothing style at the end of the 12th that makes the 12th and 13th centuries quite different. In terms of the 13th century, the answer is yes and no - wimples were popular fashion then so some people have their necks covered but other headdress styles that left the neck bare were also popular and the lower neck styles don't seem to have stopped them wearing those. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 16:31:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB7LVU74009700 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:31:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7LURTQ022776; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:30:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7LUQjK009910; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:30:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from gizmo13ps.bigpond.com (gizmo13ps.bigpond.com [144.140.71.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB7LUOjK009836 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:30:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25703 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2003 21:28:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO psmam12.bigpond.com) (144.135.25.103) by gizmo13ps.bigpond.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2003 21:28:35 -0000 Received: from 144.139.221.133 ([144.139.221.133]) by psmam12.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_4_2 228/11505410) with SMTP id 11505410; Mon, 08 Dec 2003 07:30:13 +1000 Message-ID: <008201c3bd09$4ce817a0$85dd8b90@clarke> From: "Purple Elephant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031205142626.39798.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:30:08 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Sanabria Rosado" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 1:26 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help Identifying a Painting > those are her sleeves taken off her arms and tid > behind her back. I've seen SCA kitchens with this same > exact scenario. They look exactly like that. > > Ah, I can see that now. Interesting. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 16:46:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB7Lkg74009793 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:46:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7Lk7TQ023781; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:46:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7Lk5jK017464; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from jetspin.drizzle.com (jetspin.drizzle.com [216.162.192.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7Lk2jL017438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:46:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from negoth (12-235-144-93.client.attbi.com [12.235.144.93]) (authenticated bits=0) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB7LjsoJ024164 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:45:54 -0800 From: "Sablerose" To: Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:55:20 -0800 Message-ID: <000401c3bd0c$d5f2c420$0200a8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Finding copies of patterns that are out of print X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So soon after I joined this list there was a huge thread about the correct protocol for sharing patterns and copyright protections. I would really prefer not to violate copyright protections, for good historical patterns I would like the company and the artist to get their full do. BUT! When I recently sent a friend to look for the Simplicity 8721 pattern (The cotehardie and sideless surcoat pattern) she is unable to find it in fabric stores. Has Simplicity stopped selling this pattern? If so, any suggestions for finding a legal copy? Thank you, Tayla _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 7 21:51:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB82p274011101 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 21:51:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB82oMTQ013297; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:50:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB82oIZx017840; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:50:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB82oGZx017800 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:50:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B0B425CE for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 21:57:35 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FD3E894.7030405@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 20:57:24 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finding copies of patterns that are out of print References: <000401c3bd0c$d5f2c420$0200a8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> In-Reply-To: <000401c3bd0c$d5f2c420$0200a8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sablerose wrote: > When I recently sent a friend to look for the Simplicity > 8721 pattern (The cotehardie and sideless surcoat pattern) she is unable > to find it in fabric stores. Has Simplicity stopped selling this > pattern? If so, any suggestions for finding a legal copy? > Do you mean 8725? That's the one with the big red sideless surcote. It went out of print this fall. There is still a good chance it can be bought from Simplicity direct, if your friend writes to them. They keep stock on hand until it sells out. If she can get 9758 it actually makes better use of the fabric, it doesn't drag all over the place and it uses gores at the sides for fullness. This one is also recently out of print. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 8 04:19:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB89J874007178 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 04:19:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB89INTQ005212; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 02:18:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB89IIIh029772; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 02:18:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB89IDIh029712 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 02:18:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPK00DACKI9SB@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Dec 2003 01:18:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 01:16:59 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finding copies of patterns that are out of print In-reply-to: <000401c3bd0c$d5f2c420$0200a8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031208011137.0267aea8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:55 PM 12/7/2003 -0800, you wrote: >If so, any suggestions for finding a legal copy? Hi Tayla, You may be able to find full copies of the pattern on eBay. I see many patterns there all the time. However, be sure to read the full description and ask questions of the seller if you aren't sure of anything. Buyer Beware is my motto now. And Simplicity #8721 is a girl's pattern. Simplicity #8725, as Dawn suggested, is on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2364411995&category=11801 I looked for #9758, but only found older patterns, not the Historical dress at all. But it may show up there later. Good luck! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 8 04:37:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB89bV74007299 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 04:37:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB89avTQ006027; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 02:36:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB89auIh007944; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 02:36:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB89arIh007921 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 02:36:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hB89ckA21442.; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:38:46 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 08 Dec 2003 09:36:50 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 09:36:28 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I notice they describe the Vikings as "legendary", as though they think it was an invented culture! I too quite liked the African one (not that I know much about African culture). >>> cathy@thyrsus.com 12/7/03 3:48:47 AM >>> Mattel is actually selling a "Princess of the Vikings" collectible Barbie that wears a winged helmet and breastplate (over a dress with filmy flowing sleeves, yet). Even the proponents of the "two panel" apron dress don't misrepresent Viking costume this badly: http://www.barbiecollectibles.com/shop/product.aspx?product_id=60452&shelfID=150011 -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 8 10:01:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB8F1M74010042 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:01:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8F0eTQ024589; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8F0bHt006983; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:00:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8F0ZHt006947 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:00:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104112.uvm.edu [132.198.104.112]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8F0YKg003039 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:00:34 -0500 Message-ID: <3FD49218.4090801@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:00:40 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Caraco Picture References: <001501c3bcfb$ac8de760$397f4ed5@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <001501c3bcfb$ac8de760$397f4ed5@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Would 1855 do? Here you go, complete with pattern and description: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/godey/fashion/di.html - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 8 10:11:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB8FBa74010890 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:11:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8FAqTQ025543; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:10:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8FApHt013703; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:10:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8FAmHt013666 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:10:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-121-33.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.121.33])3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id APB82545; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 15:10:45 GMT Message-ID: <18a101c3bd9d$70d63ef0$98614ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001501c3bcfb$ac8de760$397f4ed5@pavilion> <3FD49218.4090801@uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Caraco Picture Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 15:08:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You are a life saver Many thanks :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 8 10:28:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB8FSV74010954 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:28:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8FRhTQ027280; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:27:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8FRfHt026109; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:27:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB8FRbHt026063 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:27:37 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031208152736.4121.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.3.157.157] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Dec 2003 07:27:36 PST Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 07:27:36 -0800 (PST) From: Kathy Hensley Subject: Re: [h-cost] New, and a few questions To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you. I am also a costumer of Victorian fashions and am just starting to learn about earlier days as well. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it, seems so overwhelming. But when I think back a few years, I knew nothing about the Victorian era. I learned and find it so much more enjoyable to look and see things I never noticed before. So it's nice to know I'm not on this journey alone. Jean Waddie wrote:Hello and welcome to the easy stuff. I wouldn't put myself up as a great expert, but I'll try to give you an introduction, and I'm sure others will join in and correct me where I'm wrong. I have to say I'm quite awed by someone who starts 19th century and moves down to early medieval, but I expect you're struggling with the lack of sources and patterns. First thing, I would recommend you to this site: http://www.virtue.to/articles/#Clothing and especially the basic garb instructions. Second thing, never assume because they did or didn't have or know something in the 19th century, it was the same in the 11th or 12th. Take that back another 800 years and you have Romans, who knew a lot of stuff that was then lost in Western Europe for centuries. Sarah Jane Edwards <1warcry@mtco.com> wrote >Hello all; > > I am rather new to the world of early costuming, as my focus on costume >has been the 19th century for the past six years. However, since I am >getting rather bored with that time period, I am looking into earlier >periods and am finding delightful things. > > Right now I am wanting to make an outfit from the 11th century, (around >the time of Henry the First) I assume you mean 1100s, 12th century. >but am rather confused. (So far, most of my >research has been through the web). The skirts seem rather full on womens >dress. Would this fullness result from triangular gores set into a >rectangular skirt, or would it be cut from a wide piece of fabric in a >semi-circular shape? I have seen many sites with patterns for early gowns, >but they call for the large widths of fabric. From my own 19th century >knowledge, I know that fabrics were much narrower then than they are now, so >if that was true in earlier periods, the inserted gore thing makes more >sense. > The basic dress and tunic shape is a rectangular front and back with gores, either just at the sides or sides and front and back. The basic dress does not have a waist seam (I'll come on to the controversies in a moment), but you can get a lot of skirt from gores. I have seen patterns that cut the whole front and the whole back together. However, in my experience, that leads to a dress that looks like the 2-D picture - triangular. You want to cut the gores separately so that you have a straight grain all the way down from under your arm to the floor. > I'm also wondering about lacing, in some images I've seen the gowns seem >rather closely fitted at the upper body, but the skirt flares out from the >waist down, to be in soft folds around the feet. This would seem to me to >necessiate some sort of opening to enable the woman to put her gown on. >Where would such an opening (if there indeed would be one) be located? I'm >assuming laces would be used to fasten it shut, but if I am wrong please >feel free to correct me with reproof and instruction. :) > This depends which type of gown you are looking at, and the shape of the person. As recently discussed here, without an opening, the waist cannot be any smaller than your bust, since it has to go over your head and past your bust. But you have the front and back sewn directly together as far as the waist (or slightly above, depending how fast you need to flare for your tummy and hips) so it is more fitted at the waist and then flares. >From perhaps 1230-ish they do start lacing to get a better fit around the torso. We can't really tell whether this is done with an opening or just by pulling all the fabric in under the lacing, but if there is an opening it's most likely to be at the sides. It's almost certainly not an opening all the way up to the neckline - you still have to pull it over your head, but it can expand as it goes past your bust and then you lace it tight around your ribs and waist. Now, you may be looking at pictures of bliauts, the ones that appear to have a separate, tight bodice and heavily pleated skirt. Nobody knows how these were made - we're not even sure that the word "bliaut" refers to this style in period, or that they really existed rather than being a creation of a particular style of sculpture. The idea of a waist seam is very controversial, since it doesn't appear in any other garment until the 15th century. And the idea of a leather corset, which you will see put forward, is generally considered nowadays to be Right Out. The best guess, in my view, is that extra fabric in the torso is tightly pulled in by lacing, and the pattern of gathering that this creates has been exaggerated by the artistic style of the time. But I haven't tried to do one. I think some people on the list have - can we have the benefit of your experience here, people? >Oh, one more thing. What kind of neckline would be appropriate? I've read >that earlier gowns had higher 'keyhole' necklines, and they got lower as the >years progressed. I was looking at a site today that had images from the >13th century, and the neckline seemed to be a very low boat shape. Would, >for this kind of neckline, a filler of some sort have been worn to protect >from cold? > There's an answer to that in the sources. It's very difficult to tell what the neckline is on most female outfits of the period, because it's covered by their headcovering. Veils/wimples/headrails are mostly still large and draped around the front of the neck until the late 12th century, so there's your filler. Later, the artwork all shows veils just covering the head and hanging to the back, but I'm sure on a cold day they would pick up a spare length of cloth and wrap it round to keep warm. Fashion photography never shows the model in her big coat and woolly hat between takes, after all :-) > I am striving for authenticity, and don't want to start on my various >layers until I am fairly sure I am using period techniques. > > Please forgive me for what I'm sure seems such a basic question to you >all, I do appreciate any help you can give me! > >Sarah > >1warcry@mtco.com >http://web2k.mtco.com/ldepse > I hope this gives you a start, don't be afraid to come back if you have more questions. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 8 11:18:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB8GI174011234 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:18:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8GHGTQ002584; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:17:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8GHDve006998; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:17:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8GH9ve006924 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:17:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.165.35.149] (helo=pavilion) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ATO4E-0003s9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Dec 2003 08:17:03 -0800 Message-ID: <003b01c3bda7$ad3007a0$9523a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: new technology was Re: [h-cost] Sideless surcote (was: 15th c. gown) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:09:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: but I can't see a book on the sideless surcote as being in enough demand to make up printing > costs! CD rom Robin! CD rom!!! Must only cost about 50cents each these days.......... (just leaves permission fees) Cheers, Lisa Sinervo - who certainly would be on the waiting list for a copy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 8 12:14:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB8HEx74011680 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 12:14:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8HEBTQ009796; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:14:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8HEAP6001424; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:14:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9402.mail.yahoo.com (web9402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB8HE3P6001310 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:14:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031208171403.79804.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.78.211.128] by web9402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Dec 2003 09:14:03 PST Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:14:03 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: new technology was Re: [h-cost] Sideless surcote (was: 15th c. gown) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <003b01c3bda7$ad3007a0$9523a5d1@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And I would be on the list for that book as well:) Albra Lisa Sinervo wrote: Robin wrote: but I can't see a book on the sideless surcote as being in enough demand to make up printing > costs! CD rom Robin! CD rom!!! Must only cost about 50cents each these days.......... (just leaves permission fees) Cheers, Lisa Sinervo - who certainly would be on the waiting list for a copy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 8 13:20:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB8IKd74012093 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 13:20:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8I9eTQ016053; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:09:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8I9RTi028672; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:09:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8I9JTi028518 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:09:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ATPor-000OjG-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Dec 2003 18:09:18 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:08:17 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] New, and a few questions References: <000a01c3bb63$94f8de00$cfd7b3cf@y3r8b8> <007401c3bd09$2e0d3a40$85dd8b90@clarke> In-Reply-To: <007401c3bd09$2e0d3a40$85dd8b90@clarke> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To clarify dates: I've got Henry I listed as 1100 to 1135. Yes, I meant tighter fitting started around 1130ish. Sorry for making a hash of that! Jean >> > >> > Right now I am wanting to make an outfit from the 11th century, (around >> >the time of Henry the First) >> I assume you mean 1100s, 12th century. >Henry I's reign began at the end of the 11th century I think, so it >just qualifies. Henry II began in 1152 or so, if that what you're thinking >of.... >> >but am rather confused. (So far, most of my >> >> From perhaps 1230-ish they do start lacing to get a better fit around >Errr...do you mean 1130? I think they may even have started a bit >earlier, as even a bit into the 11th century you see some attempt at >shaping to the waist, although this may be the sort of thing Jean >describes above rather than lacing per se. >> the torso. We can't really tell whether this is done with an opening or >> just by pulling all the fabric in under the lacing, but if there is an >> opening it's most likely to be at the sides. It's almost certainly not >Definitely agree there. Western Europe doesn't seem to have >gotten the idea of a (complete) CF or CB opening until the 14th >century. >> an opening all the way up to the neckline - you still have to pull it >> over your head, but it can expand as it goes past your bust and then you >> lace it tight around your ribs and waist. > -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 8 17:30:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB8MU274013502 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:30:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8MSrID017129; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 15:28:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8MSmiB020842; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 15:28:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41115.mail.yahoo.com (web41115.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB8MSjiB020712 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 15:28:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031208222840.23003.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.151.100.130] by web41115.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Dec 2003 14:28:40 PST Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 14:28:40 -0800 (PST) From: Stacey To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200312081901.hB8J1eBB023298@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I know my loom and materials are probably not perfectly historic, but I'd like the advice of anyone here who has done some hand-woven costumes. I have a 22" tabletop loom with a 12 thread-per-inch reed. I have some fine cotton and wool yarns that just might make up that width for the 14 yards I can set up on my warping frame. Now, my first question to any handweavers in here is, how do you start cutting your final cloth? Do you stabilize the edges first, or hope that it won't fray by the time you finish the seams? Since I'm just doing square T-tunics, would I weave the lengths for each piece and then separate them with empty warp (which would be tied off)? Thanks in advance, Stacey __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 8 18:52:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB8Nqb74013842 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:52:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8Nq5ID026934; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 16:52:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8Nq1q5009067; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 16:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB8Npvq5008999 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 16:51:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-156.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.156])hB8Npr0b018715 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:51:55 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031208154412.057aa5a0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 15:51:47 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics In-Reply-To: <20031208222840.23003.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200312081901.hB8J1eBB023298@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Now, my first question to any >handweavers in here is, how do you start cutting your >final cloth? Do you stabilize the edges first, or >hope that it won't fray by the time you finish the >seams? Since I'm just doing square T-tunics, would I >weave the lengths for each piece and then separate >them with empty warp (which would be tied off)? I am under the impression that earlier cultures did as little cutting of cloth as they could get away with. That's why most ethnic garments are made of squares, rectangles, and triangles. I know if I'd just woven that much cloth I wouldn't be in a hurry to chop it up for a modern garment, and waste all the scraps. (This is exactly what happened when my grandmother wove a piece of cloth for a dress for me, which my mother cut and sewed, for a handweaver's convention. I think they made handwoven pincushions with as much of the scrap as they could.) What I think I'd do is put two rows of sewing machine zig-zag stitching wherever I needed to cut, and cut between them. Not period, sorry. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 8 19:09:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB909d74013891 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 19:09:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB908kID028404; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:08:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB908iNW022645; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:08:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB908fNW022602 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:08:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.129] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0B126200074; Mon, 08 Dec 2003 19:00:49 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c3bde9$48efa380$815183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001501c3bcfb$ac8de760$397f4ed5@pavilion> <3FD49218.4090801@uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Caraco Picture Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 19:13:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank You Hope for these images. I have been working in the 18th C for these garments and never tripped into the 19th C to see how the Curacao translated itself a hundred years or so to another time period. Very interesting. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Greeenberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Caraco Picture > Would 1855 do? Here you go, complete with pattern and description: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/godey/fashion/di.html > > - Hope > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 8 21:10:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB92AX74014441 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 21:10:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB929k4S009503; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 19:09:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB929fLm015425; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 19:09:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB929cLm015313 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 19:09:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m56.in-tch.com [216.166.191.56]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hB91m3o22795 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:48:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FD52F80.EBC256EF@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 19:12:16 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics References: <20031208222840.23003.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, cool, there's another one like me out here! I'm taking an intro-to-weaving class precisely so I can learn enough to weave my own yardage, and my questions about sources for weaving-weight wool singles, and my first "independent" project being this weird scrap of linen from 10th c. Yorvik are making the instructor's eyes glaze over! ;o) Do you have this link? http://home.insight.rr.com/cains/documentation/ It's an online diary (of sorts), detailing the process one lady went through to create a handmade (spun, woven, etc), Anglo-Saxon cyrtel (11th c., I think). --sue Stacey wrote: > > Hello, > > I know my loom and materials are probably not > perfectly historic, but I'd like the advice of anyone > here who has done some hand-woven costumes. I have a > 22" tabletop loom with a 12 thread-per-inch reed. I > have some fine cotton and wool yarns that just might > make up that width for the 14 yards I can set up on my > warping frame. Now, my first question to any > handweavers in here is, how do you start cutting your > final cloth? Do you stabilize the edges first, or > hope that it won't fray by the time you finish the > seams? Since I'm just doing square T-tunics, would I > weave the lengths for each piece and then separate > them with empty warp (which would be tied off)? > > Thanks in advance, > > Stacey > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 8 23:18:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB94I974014981 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 23:18:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB94HT4S019687; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 21:17:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB94HO40005800; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 21:17:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (smtp2.surewest.net [208.45.228.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB94HK40005716 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 21:17:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 4990 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2003 04:17:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.11) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 9 Dec 2003 04:17:15 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 20:17:10 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics In-Reply-To: <3FD52F80.EBC256EF@in-tch.com> References: <20031208222840.23003.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2 SNWK2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think it's wonderful that you are planning to weave fabric for your outfit. But only 12 threads per inch in a tabby weave is very coarse. It would be useable for woolens for outer clothing (a cloak, for instance), but I would want something much finer for a tunic (at least 40 to 50 threads per inch). The problem you run into is that if you weave it firmly enough that it resists unravelling, you have a very board-like fabric with very little drape, and if it is not firmly woven, it comes apart or snags easily if the threads are smooth. Once you take the web off the loom, you need to wash it (sew the starting and finishing ends together before washing) to tighten up the weave and remove any dirt or oils from your hands. Good luck with your project. At 07:12 PM 12/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Oh, cool, there's another one like me out here! I'm taking an >intro-to-weaving class precisely so I can learn enough to weave my own >yardage, and my questions about sources for weaving-weight wool singles, >and my first "independent" project being this weird scrap of linen from >10th c. Yorvik are making the instructor's eyes glaze over! ;o) >Do you have this link? >http://home.insight.rr.com/cains/documentation/ >It's an online diary (of sorts), detailing the process one lady went >through to create a handmade (spun, woven, etc), Anglo-Saxon cyrtel >(11th c., I think). >--sue > >Stacey wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I know my loom and materials are probably not > > perfectly historic, but I'd like the advice of anyone > > here who has done some hand-woven costumes. I have a > > 22" tabletop loom with a 12 thread-per-inch reed. I > > have some fine cotton and wool yarns that just might > > make up that width for the 14 yards I can set up on my > > warping frame. Now, my first question to any > > handweavers in here is, how do you start cutting your > > final cloth? Do you stabilize the edges first, or > > hope that it won't fray by the time you finish the > > seams? Since I'm just doing square T-tunics, would I > > weave the lengths for each piece and then separate > > them with empty warp (which would be tied off)? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Stacey > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From your friendly fiber fan, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 9 08:53:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB9Drg74026402 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 08:53:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9Dqk4S020394; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 06:52:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9DqWgU009487; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 06:52:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9DqRgU009456 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 06:52:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A39A18004EC; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 07:52:26 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 07:52:24 -0600 Message-ID: <002801c3be5b$ae369560$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20031208222840.23003.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One of our local Laurels once commented in a class on early period clothing- pre-1300's mostly, that hardly anybody uses as much fringe/fringing for edge treatments as they did back in the day. My response was that was because we had to un-weave the purchased material, all they had to do was leave off weaving at the end of each piece. So you are in good shape! Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Stacey Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 4:29 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics Hello, I know my loom and materials are probably not perfectly historic, but I'd like the advice of anyone here who has done some hand-woven costumes. I have a 22" tabletop loom with a 12 thread-per-inch reed. I have some fine cotton and wool yarns that just might make up that width for the 14 yards I can set up on my warping frame. Now, my first question to any handweavers in here is, how do you start cutting your final cloth? Do you stabilize the edges first, or hope that it won't fray by the time you finish the seams? Since I'm just doing square T-tunics, would I weave the lengths for each piece and then separate them with empty warp (which would be tied off)? Thanks in advance, Stacey __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 9 10:49:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB9FnS74026819 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:49:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9Fme4S028625; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 08:48:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9Fmcnh019237; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 08:48:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (smtp2.surewest.net [208.45.228.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB9FmZnh019123 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 08:48:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 29947 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2003 15:48:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gateway) (216.93.210.124) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 9 Dec 2003 15:48:30 -0000 From: "Joan Broneske" To: "H-costume" Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 07:48:17 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-TST: smtp2 SNWK2 Subject: [h-cost] Dirndl pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know where I can find a pattern for a traditional German Dirndl, besides the Folkwear one? Thanks, ,%%%, --==% `%%%, |' )`%%, \_/\ @%%, __@@" %%%--"""-.%, /`__| \%% \\ \ / | /'%, \] | /----'. < `%, Joan Broneske || `>>> unicorn@surewest.net || ///` /( //( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 9 11:01:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB9G1u74026886 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 11:01:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9G064S029890; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9G055C028629; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:00:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9G025C028592 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net ([10.116.0.123]) by scanmail3.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 9 Dec 2003 08:53:19 -0700 Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123] by scanmail3.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AFEF768800FC; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 08:53:19 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-119-176-69.cpe.cableone.net [24.119.176.69]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Tue, 09 Dec 2003 08:53:19 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dirndl pattern Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:00:20 -0600 Message-ID: <004401c3be6d$8d304750$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-119-176-69.cpe.cableone.net [24.119.176.69] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try the Burda pattern company -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Joan Broneske Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 9:48 AM To: H-costume Subject: [h-cost] Dirndl pattern Does anyone know where I can find a pattern for a traditional German Dirndl, besides the Folkwear one? Thanks, ,%%%, --==% `%%%, |' )`%%, \_/\ @%%, __@@" %%%--"""-.%, /`__| \%% \\ \ / | /'%, \] | /----'. < `%, Joan Broneske || `>>> unicorn@surewest.net || ///` /( //( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 9 12:58:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB9Hwr74028032 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:58:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9Hvh4S012404; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:57:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9HvbZ0014069; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:57:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9HvVZ0013922 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:57:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06242 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 13:23:21 -0600 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 13:23:21 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Seeking cites from French references on 14th c. costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is there anyone on the list who has in hand any books on costume by Odile Blanc, Francoise Piponnier, Michel Pastoreau, or other French writers on medieval costume? (I have the English version of the Piponnier & Mane book, but I know Piponnier has written more that has not been translated.) If you are familiar with any of these, can you tell me whether any of them address the topic of tippets -- the decorative streamers hanging from the upper arms in late 14th c. Western European dress? I am preparing a paper on tippets and want to make sure I haven't missed any references to them, particularly documentary references, but also modern analyses. Someone told me she thought Odile Blanc addressed this topic, but didn't tell me where, and Blanc has written many books. I have skimmed through the most likely one, _Parades et Parures_, and found one brief reference to tippets. But I worry that there's something more somewhere, and I'd hate to miss it. If I know what books to start looking through, I can probably ILL them, but I can't ILL the entire French works of these authors. I'm also interested in terminology used for these items in French books. Blanc calls tippets "coudieres" (accent grave over the first e), a term I had not heard before, so I worry that there might be references elsewhere in French I could have missed, particularly if there are other French-specific terms. I appreciate any leads. I'm also in the market for any references to tippets in medieval documentary sources, which might be quoted in modern books (on costume or other topics). I have the references from Newton, Scott, and of course a bunch of unreliable earlier books, 18th-20th c. But who knows what else is out there? And if anyone else has done a paper on these things, I haven't seen it ... which worries me. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 9 17:50:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB9MoM74028852 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:50:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9Mm74S011857; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:48:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9Mm4ZO026472; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:48:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9Mm0ZO026409 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPN00MPIDJV9W@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 13:40:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 13:39:11 -0800 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031209133753.00b0dcc8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] speaking of weaving fabrics... another ebay book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO French Weaving Book http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3572481376&category=1124 THE ROMANCE OF FRENCH WEAVING, by Paul Rodier, published by Tudor Publising Co., NY, 1936. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 9 18:10:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB9NAZ74028950 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:10:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9N5C4S013907; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:05:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9N5BqH013588; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:05:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9N58qH013437 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:05:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003120923050301100r24jie>; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:05:03 +0000 Message-ID: <3FD65529.2060204@fenris.net> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:05:13 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics References: <20031208222840.23003.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Stacey, I have 2 threads per dent in my 12 dent per inch reed. If you have enough heddles for your loom, you should be able to do this also, if you want a tighter weave. liz young Joan Jurancich wrote: > I think it's wonderful that you are planning to weave fabric for your > outfit. But only 12 threads per inch in a tabby weave is very coarse. > It would be useable for woolens for outer clothing (a cloak, for > instance), but I would want something much finer for a tunic (at least > 40 to 50 threads per inch). The problem you run into is that if you > weave it firmly enough that it resists unravelling, you have a very > board-like fabric with very little drape, and if it is not firmly > woven, it comes apart or snags easily if the threads are smooth. Once > you take the web off the loom, you need to wash it (sew the starting > and finishing ends together before washing) to tighten up the weave > and remove any dirt or oils from your hands. > Good luck with your project. > > At 07:12 PM 12/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >> Oh, cool, there's another one like me out here! I'm taking an >> intro-to-weaving class precisely so I can learn enough to weave my own >> yardage, and my questions about sources for weaving-weight wool singles, >> and my first "independent" project being this weird scrap of linen from >> 10th c. Yorvik are making the instructor's eyes glaze over! ;o) >> Do you have this link? >> http://home.insight.rr.com/cains/documentation/ >> It's an online diary (of sorts), detailing the process one lady went >> through to create a handmade (spun, woven, etc), Anglo-Saxon cyrtel >> (11th c., I think). >> --sue >> >> Stacey wrote: >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > I know my loom and materials are probably not >> > perfectly historic, but I'd like the advice of anyone >> > here who has done some hand-woven costumes. I have a >> > 22" tabletop loom with a 12 thread-per-inch reed. I >> > have some fine cotton and wool yarns that just might >> > make up that width for the 14 yards I can set up on my >> > warping frame. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 9 18:55:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB9NtL74029074 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:55:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9NsD4S019040; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:54:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9Ns8qH000566; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:54:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40905.mail.yahoo.com (web40905.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB9Ns4qH000438 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:54:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031209235358.29319.qmail@web40905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.167.44.206] by web40905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:53:58 PST Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:53:58 -0800 (PST) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200312091901.hB9J11ui016230@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Seeking cites from French references on 14th c. costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Blanc calls tippets "coudieres" (accent grave over > the first e), a term I > had not heard before, so I worry that there might be > references elsewhere > in French I could have missed, particularly if there > are other French-specific terms. Hi Robin, You probably have already made this connection, but Joan Evans, in her _Dress in Medieaval France_, references G. Demay's _Le costume au moyen age d'aprez les sceaux_ (1880) when she says (on p. 45): "...in 1390 Charles le Hardi, Duke of Lorraine, appears on his seal with plate-armour complete: shoulder-pieces, brassarts, coudieres, canons, gantelets, cuissots, genouilleres, greves and sollerets with long points..." and then she references two plates which depict men in armour, but are clearly not the seal itself (and thus a tad useless for the present discussion). The word "coudieres" is accented the way you describe above. Perhaps there is an original wardrobe account for Charles le Hardi dating from that time, or perhaps the word can be chased down through Victor Gay's _Glossaire archeologique du Moyen Age et de la Renaissance_ (though I've never seen it myself, and have no idea if it's reliable or not -- is it, I wonder?). Sorry; it's not terribly useful, I know, but I figure it's worth mentioning in case an in-depth pursuit can actually lead to something meaty. -Tasha ===== ***Updated as of November 1, 2003: Aumônière-mania!*** http://www.cottesimple.com An exploration of European clothing and accessories from the late 14th/early 15th centuries. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 9 19:27:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBA0RO74029180 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:27:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA0Qi4S021621; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:26:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA0Qgjd025176; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:26:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA0Qcjd025127 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:26:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09585 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:52:36 -0600 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:52:36 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Seeking cites from French references on 14th c. costume In-Reply-To: <20031209235358.29319.qmail@web40905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Tasha McGann wrote: > > Blanc calls tippets "coudieres" (accent grave over > > the first e), a term I had not heard before... > You probably have already made this connection, but Joan Evans, in her > _Dress in Medieaval France_, references G. Demay's _Le costume au > moyen age d'aprez les sceaux_ (1880) when she says (on p. 45): "...in > 1390 Charles le Hardi, Duke of Lorraine, appears on his seal with > plate-armour complete: shoulder-pieces, brassarts, coudieres, canons, > gantelets, cuissots, genouilleres, greves and sollerets with long > points..." and then she references two plates which depict men in > armour, but are clearly not the seal itself (and thus a tad useless > for the present discussion). The word "coudieres" is accented the way > you describe above. Aha. No, I didn't have this connection, not being an armor person. I wonder if Blanc (or others) picked up a generic term for "elbow piece" or something like that. Thanks; now I have something to go on for tracking this down in French historic glossaries and dictionaries, to find whether it's listed as an armor term or a clothing term. A lot of costume and armor terms are crossovers from one area to the other, so this is a likely connection ... though based on what little I know right now it's equally likely that it's a modern shift in terminology, not a medieval one! I'll see if I can find out. Thanks for that little gem. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 9 23:07:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBA47W74030079 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:07:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA46i4S007208; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:06:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA46hjw006937; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:06:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA45rjw006380 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:05:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBA45oAA009765 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:05:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.178] (tnt-1-242.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.178])hBA45dRG009628; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:05:49 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:39:40 -0800 To: Historical Costume , "H-costume" From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dirndl pattern Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:48 AM -0800 12/9/03, Joan Broneske wrote: >Does anyone know where I can find a pattern for a traditional German Dirndl, >besides the Folkwear one? When I was in Germany, many years ago, there was a Simplicity pattern available there for dirndls. I think I've still got it somewhere, but there's no guarantee that the pattern number would be of any earthly use three decades later. But pattern companies active in Germany probably have _something_ available. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 9 23:09:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBA49N74030089 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:09:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA4624S007149; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:06:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA45ujw006469; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:05:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA45rjw006392 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:05:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBA45oAC009765 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.178] (tnt-1-242.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.178])hBA45dRG009628; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:05:49 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:39:40 -0800 To: Historical Costume , "H-costume" From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dirndl pattern Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:48 AM -0800 12/9/03, Joan Broneske wrote: >Does anyone know where I can find a pattern for a traditional German Dirndl, >besides the Folkwear one? When I was in Germany, many years ago, there was a Simplicity pattern available there for dirndls. I think I've still got it somewhere, but there's no guarantee that the pattern number would be of any earthly use three decades later. But pattern companies active in Germany probably have _something_ available. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 00:36:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBA5aG74030453 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:36:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA5ZZ4S012944; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 22:35:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA5ZVG9025453; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 22:35:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (smtp2.surewest.net [208.45.228.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBA5ZSG9025388 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 22:35:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 13476 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2003 05:35:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.11) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 10 Dec 2003 05:35:22 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031209212741.00b60228@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:35:17 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics In-Reply-To: <3FD65529.2060204@fenris.net> References: <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> <20031208222840.23003.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2 SNWK2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Unfortunately, putting two threads per dent won't help much. You end up with a half-basketweave that will also be fairly stiff and thick if firmly woven. If you use a fine thread at one thread per dent and weave it so that you end up with 40+ threads per inch in the web (which will make it *much* narrower than the width of the reed), you might be able to come up with a fabric with decent draping qualities. Let us know how it works. Joan At 03:05 PM 12/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Stacey, >I have 2 threads per dent in my 12 dent per inch reed. If you have enough >heddles for your loom, you should be able to do this also, if you want a >tighter weave. > >liz young > >Joan Jurancich wrote: > >>I think it's wonderful that you are planning to weave fabric for your >>outfit. But only 12 threads per inch in a tabby weave is very coarse. It >>would be useable for woolens for outer clothing (a cloak, for instance), >>but I would want something much finer for a tunic (at least 40 to 50 >>threads per inch). The problem you run into is that if you weave it >>firmly enough that it resists unravelling, you have a very board-like >>fabric with very little drape, and if it is not firmly woven, it comes >>apart or snags easily if the threads are smooth. Once you take the web >>off the loom, you need to wash it (sew the starting and finishing ends >>together before washing) to tighten up the weave and remove any dirt or >>oils from your hands. >>Good luck with your project. >> >>At 07:12 PM 12/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: >> >>>Oh, cool, there's another one like me out here! I'm taking an >>>intro-to-weaving class precisely so I can learn enough to weave my own >>>yardage, and my questions about sources for weaving-weight wool singles, >>>and my first "independent" project being this weird scrap of linen from >>>10th c. Yorvik are making the instructor's eyes glaze over! ;o) >>>Do you have this link? >>>http://home.insight.rr.com/cains/documentation/ >>>It's an online diary (of sorts), detailing the process one lady went >>>through to create a handmade (spun, woven, etc), Anglo-Saxon cyrtel >>>(11th c., I think). >>>--sue >>> >>>Stacey wrote: >>> > >>> > Hello, >>> > >>> > I know my loom and materials are probably not >>> > perfectly historic, but I'd like the advice of anyone >>> > here who has done some hand-woven costumes. I have a >>> > 22" tabletop loom with a 12 thread-per-inch reed. I >>> > have some fine cotton and wool yarns that just might >>> > make up that width for the 14 yards I can set up on my >>> > warping frame. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 01:14:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBA6Ei74030651 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:14:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA6E04S014822; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA6DvZJ014698; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:13:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA6DtZJ014629 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:13:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003121006134901300msdh7e>; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:13:49 +0000 Message-ID: <3FD6B9A5.4040305@fenris.net> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 22:13:57 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics References: <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> <20031208222840.23003.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> <4.2.2.20031209212741.00b60228@pop.surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20031209212741.00b60228@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shoot. I don't think I was clear. I also wasn't following the thread until recently, so who *knows* what exactly I think I'm replying to! I have a 4 shaft, 6 treadle floor loom. Threading pattern is 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 etc. Tied up for tabby and for twill. Weaving is in progress. Warp is 24 inches wide, cloth is 23 inches wide (drawing in a little). I really do have 2 threads in each dent of the reed. Getting a nice tabby with twill bands. Not a basketweave in sight. 1/2 yard woven and 6 1/2 to go! liz young Joan Jurancich wrote: > Unfortunately, putting two threads per dent won't help much. You end > up with a half-basketweave that will also be fairly stiff and thick if > firmly woven. If you use a fine thread at one thread per dent and > weave it so that you end up with 40+ threads per inch in the web > (which will make it *much* narrower than the width of the reed), you > might be able to come up with a fabric with decent draping qualities. > Let us know how it works. > Joan > > At 03:05 PM 12/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: > >> Stacey, >> I have 2 threads per dent in my 12 dent per inch reed. If you have >> enough heddles for your loom, you should be able to do this also, if >> you want a tighter weave. >> >> liz young >> >> Joan Jurancich wrote: >> >>> I think it's wonderful that you are planning to weave fabric for >>> your outfit. But only 12 threads per inch in a tabby weave is very >>> coarse. It would be useable for woolens for outer clothing (a cloak, >>> for instance), but I would want something much finer for a tunic (at >>> least 40 to 50 threads per inch). The problem you run into is that >>> if you weave it firmly enough that it resists unravelling, you have >>> a very board-like fabric with very little drape, and if it is not >>> firmly woven, it comes apart or snags easily if the threads are >>> smooth. Once you take the web off the loom, you need to wash it >>> (sew the starting and finishing ends together before washing) to >>> tighten up the weave and remove any dirt or oils from your hands. >>> Good luck with your project. >>> >>> At 07:12 PM 12/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>> >>>> Oh, cool, there's another one like me out here! I'm taking an >>>> intro-to-weaving class precisely so I can learn enough to weave my own >>>> yardage, and my questions about sources for weaving-weight wool >>>> singles, >>>> and my first "independent" project being this weird scrap of linen >>>> from >>>> 10th c. Yorvik are making the instructor's eyes glaze over! ;o) >>>> Do you have this link? >>>> http://home.insight.rr.com/cains/documentation/ >>>> It's an online diary (of sorts), detailing the process one lady went >>>> through to create a handmade (spun, woven, etc), Anglo-Saxon cyrtel >>>> (11th c., I think). >>>> --sue >>>> >>>> Stacey wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hello, >>>> > >>>> > I know my loom and materials are probably not >>>> > perfectly historic, but I'd like the advice of anyone >>>> > here who has done some hand-woven costumes. I have a >>>> > 22" tabletop loom with a 12 thread-per-inch reed. I >>>> > have some fine cotton and wool yarns that just might >>>> > make up that width for the 14 yards I can set up on my >>>> > warping frame. >>> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 03:13:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBA8Dg74024862 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 03:13:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA8Cp4S018893; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:12:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA8BcVc009625; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:11:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA8BZVc009606 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:11:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBA9JigI007486 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:19:44 -0800 Message-ID: <3FD6D3E9.9030806@misc.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:06:01 -0800 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dirndl pattern References: <004401c3be6d$8d304750$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This one looks interesting: http://store.german-usa.com/Books/Needlework___Sewing/Clothes_Making/trachten_dirndl_revue_2000.html Theresa Eacker Kim Baird wrote: > Try the Burda pattern company > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Joan Broneske > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 9:48 AM > To: H-costume > Subject: [h-cost] Dirndl pattern > > Does anyone know where I can find a pattern for a traditional German > Dirndl, > besides the Folkwear one? > > Thanks, > > ,%%%, > --==% `%%%, > |' )`%%, > \_/\ @%%, > __@@" %%%--"""-.%, > /`__| \%% > \\ \ / | /'%, > \] | /----'. < `%, > Joan Broneske || `>>> > unicorn@surewest.net || ///` > /( //( > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 08:38:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBADcY74010868 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:38:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBADaG4S002845; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:36:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBADa9KR024933; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:36:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBADa6KR024873 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:36:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a238.in-tch.com [66.62.107.38]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBADETo17459 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:14:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FD721E4.E7F3CEAB@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:38:44 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics References: <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> <20031208222840.23003.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.2.20031209212741.00b60228@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Why would you end up with a half-basket weave? Putting more than one thread in a dent is pretty common practice in the weaving books I've got--you just thread the heddles individually, making sure you don't get things tangled. --sue Joan Jurancich wrote: > > Unfortunately, putting two threads per dent won't help much. You end up > with a half-basketweave that will also be fairly stiff and thick if firmly > woven. If you use a fine thread at one thread per dent and weave it so > that you end up with 40+ threads per inch in the web (which will make it > *much* narrower than the width of the reed), you might be able to come up > with a fabric with decent draping qualities. Let us know how it works. > Joan > > At 03:05 PM 12/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: > >Stacey, > >I have 2 threads per dent in my 12 dent per inch reed. If you have enough > >heddles for your loom, you should be able to do this also, if you want a > >tighter weave. > > > >liz young > > > >Joan Jurancich wrote: > > > >>I think it's wonderful that you are planning to weave fabric for your > >>outfit. But only 12 threads per inch in a tabby weave is very coarse. It > >>would be useable for woolens for outer clothing (a cloak, for instance), > >>but I would want something much finer for a tunic (at least 40 to 50 > >>threads per inch). The problem you run into is that if you weave it > >>firmly enough that it resists unravelling, you have a very board-like > >>fabric with very little drape, and if it is not firmly woven, it comes > >>apart or snags easily if the threads are smooth. Once you take the web > >>off the loom, you need to wash it (sew the starting and finishing ends > >>together before washing) to tighten up the weave and remove any dirt or > >>oils from your hands. > >>Good luck with your project. > >> > >>At 07:12 PM 12/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >> > >>>Oh, cool, there's another one like me out here! I'm taking an > >>>intro-to-weaving class precisely so I can learn enough to weave my own > >>>yardage, and my questions about sources for weaving-weight wool singles, > >>>and my first "independent" project being this weird scrap of linen from > >>>10th c. Yorvik are making the instructor's eyes glaze over! ;o) > >>>Do you have this link? > >>>http://home.insight.rr.com/cains/documentation/ > >>>It's an online diary (of sorts), detailing the process one lady went > >>>through to create a handmade (spun, woven, etc), Anglo-Saxon cyrtel > >>>(11th c., I think). > >>>--sue > >>> > >>>Stacey wrote: > >>> > > >>> > Hello, > >>> > > >>> > I know my loom and materials are probably not > >>> > perfectly historic, but I'd like the advice of anyone > >>> > here who has done some hand-woven costumes. I have a > >>> > 22" tabletop loom with a 12 thread-per-inch reed. I > >>> > have some fine cotton and wool yarns that just might > >>> > make up that width for the 14 yards I can set up on my > >>> > warping frame. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 08:43:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBADho74010994 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:43:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBADhF4S003235; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:43:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBADhEKR028822; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:43:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBADhCKR028766 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:43:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a238.in-tch.com [66.62.107.38]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBADLYo21003 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:21:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FD7238D.BEA152FA@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:45:49 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics References: <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> <20031208222840.23003.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> <3FD6B9A5.4040305@fenris.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Liz, what are you using for yarn/thread? The tabby/twill alternating sounds pretty. I'm saving up for an 8-harness table loom myself (no room in the inn for a floor loom. no room in the budget, either! ;-D) --sue Elizabeth Young wrote: > > Shoot. I don't think I was clear. I also wasn't following the thread > until recently, so who *knows* what exactly I think I'm replying to! > I have a 4 shaft, 6 treadle floor loom. Threading pattern is 1 2 3 4 1 2 > 3 4 etc. Tied up for tabby and for twill. Weaving is in progress. Warp > is 24 inches wide, cloth is 23 inches wide (drawing in a little). I > really do have 2 threads in each dent of the reed. Getting a nice tabby > with twill bands. Not a basketweave in sight. 1/2 yard woven and 6 1/2 > to go! > > liz young > > Joan Jurancich wrote: > > > Unfortunately, putting two threads per dent won't help much. You end > > up with a half-basketweave that will also be fairly stiff and thick if > > firmly woven. If you use a fine thread at one thread per dent and > > weave it so that you end up with 40+ threads per inch in the web > > (which will make it *much* narrower than the width of the reed), you > > might be able to come up with a fabric with decent draping qualities. > > Let us know how it works. > > Joan > > > > At 03:05 PM 12/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: > > > >> Stacey, > >> I have 2 threads per dent in my 12 dent per inch reed. If you have > >> enough heddles for your loom, you should be able to do this also, if > >> you want a tighter weave. > >> > >> liz young > >> > >> Joan Jurancich wrote: > >> > >>> I think it's wonderful that you are planning to weave fabric for > >>> your outfit. But only 12 threads per inch in a tabby weave is very > >>> coarse. It would be useable for woolens for outer clothing (a cloak, > >>> for instance), but I would want something much finer for a tunic (at > >>> least 40 to 50 threads per inch). The problem you run into is that > >>> if you weave it firmly enough that it resists unravelling, you have > >>> a very board-like fabric with very little drape, and if it is not > >>> firmly woven, it comes apart or snags easily if the threads are > >>> smooth. Once you take the web off the loom, you need to wash it > >>> (sew the starting and finishing ends together before washing) to > >>> tighten up the weave and remove any dirt or oils from your hands. > >>> Good luck with your project. > >>> > >>> At 07:12 PM 12/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >>> > >>>> Oh, cool, there's another one like me out here! I'm taking an > >>>> intro-to-weaving class precisely so I can learn enough to weave my own > >>>> yardage, and my questions about sources for weaving-weight wool > >>>> singles, > >>>> and my first "independent" project being this weird scrap of linen > >>>> from > >>>> 10th c. Yorvik are making the instructor's eyes glaze over! ;o) > >>>> Do you have this link? > >>>> http://home.insight.rr.com/cains/documentation/ > >>>> It's an online diary (of sorts), detailing the process one lady went > >>>> through to create a handmade (spun, woven, etc), Anglo-Saxon cyrtel > >>>> (11th c., I think). > >>>> --sue > >>>> > >>>> Stacey wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > Hello, > >>>> > > >>>> > I know my loom and materials are probably not > >>>> > perfectly historic, but I'd like the advice of anyone > >>>> > here who has done some hand-woven costumes. I have a > >>>> > 22" tabletop loom with a 12 thread-per-inch reed. I > >>>> > have some fine cotton and wool yarns that just might > >>>> > make up that width for the 14 yards I can set up on my > >>>> > warping frame. > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 08:50:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBADoJ74011080 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:50:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBADnk4S003607; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:49:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBADniKR001989; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:49:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBADngKR001954 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:49:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.249.180.30] (pool180-29.patriot.net [209.249.180.29]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hBADnTlZ009391 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:49:40 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20031209212741.00b60228@pop.surewest.net> References: <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> <20031208222840.23003.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> <4.2.2.20031209212741.00b60228@pop.surewest.net> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:49:04 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Two threads per dent in a 12 is a very typical thing to do, it beats buying a new 24 dent! Or you can alternate one thread and two threads for 18 threads per inch. The dent keeps the threads evenly distributed across the width, and it's the heddles and treadling that determine the weave. A fine thread at four threads per dent would give you 48 threads per inch, but I'm not sure how many threads you can have in each one before it starts tangling. A 20 dent reed with two threads per inch would work. While weaving will draw in the width of the fabric a bit, that's something weavers do their best to minimize. If you try to draw the fabric in tighter deliberately, you'll end up with it tighter on the sides than in the center, uneven weaving due to impaired beating, and probably broken warp threads on the sides as well! Traditionally on tape looms you draw in the width to produce a warp-faced tape, and also you are beating with the shuttle and not with a reed. With 1/8" to an inch of finished tape, it's easy to draw in the width evenly across the piece. I'm a beginner-level weaver, so if I got anything wrong hopefully a more experienced weaver will clarify! -Carol >Unfortunately, putting two threads per dent won't help much. You >end up with a half-basketweave that will also be fairly stiff and >thick if firmly woven. If you use a fine thread at one thread per >dent and weave it so that you end up with 40+ threads per inch in >the web (which will make it *much* narrower than the width of the >reed), you might be able to come up with a fabric with decent >draping qualities. Let us know how it works. >Joan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 09:03:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBAE3R74011558 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:03:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAE2K4S004485; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:02:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAE2FdO008115; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:02:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAE2CdO008079 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:02:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-38lcino.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.74.248]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AU4up-0003Ps-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:02:12 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200312101350.hBADnwKT002098@net.indra.com> References: <200312101350.hBADnwKT002098@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:02:06 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 834 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:50 AM -0700 12/10/03, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >Shoot. I don't think I was clear. I also wasn't following the thread >until recently, so who *knows* what exactly I think I'm replying to! >I have a 4 shaft, 6 treadle floor loom. Threading pattern is 1 2 3 4 1 2 >3 4 etc. Tied up for tabby and for twill. Weaving is in progress. Warp >is 24 inches wide, cloth is 23 inches wide (drawing in a little). I >really do have 2 threads in each dent of the reed. Getting a nice tabby >with twill bands. Not a basketweave in sight. 1/2 yard woven and 6 1/2 >to go! You Go GIRL!!! Glad to see more crazy folks out there Me, I'm still finishing spinning this loverly *black* fleece for singles to weave up some herring bone yardage. Ta Carol, back to combing! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 09:18:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBAEHx74011671 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:17:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAEHO4S005988; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:17:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAEHMdO016932; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:17:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAEHEdO016829 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:17:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.162] (pm5-162.eos.net [205.133.149.162]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBAEH8eP010933 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:17:08 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:18:22 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312101349.hBADnwKS002098@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: dirndl X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Burda has a pattern that might work for you. I saw it the last time I looked at the catalogue, a whole "German" ensemble that I thought about getting in case I ever wanted to dress up for Oktoberfest. Cincinnati has a big German heritage, even a blingual German language public school my children almost attended. It looked like the Oktoberfest clothes I see every year, more complicated to sew than your typical "costume" patterns and thus perhaps (??) more authentic. I figured that since the company is German, it might be a safe bet. The skirt looked pretty, anyway! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 09:54:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBAEsg74011917 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:54:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAErq4S008135; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:53:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAErmdO007799; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:53:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAErkdO007714 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:53:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003121014534101200fp0dve>; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:53:41 +0000 Message-ID: <3FD7337F.7080205@fenris.net> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:53:51 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics References: <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> <20031208222840.23003.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.2.20031208200407.00c0ab28@pop.surewest.net> <3FD6B9A5.4040305@fenris.net> <3FD7238D.BEA152FA@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3FD7238D.BEA152FA@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm using Mainline Jagger 2/20 from Halcyon yarn. Pretty fine, and beats spinning it myself! liz young Sue Clemenger wrote: >Liz, what are you using for yarn/thread? The tabby/twill alternating >sounds pretty. >I'm saving up for an 8-harness table loom myself (no room in the inn for >a floor loom. no room in the budget, either! ;-D) >--sue > >Elizabeth Young wrote: > > >>Shoot. I don't think I was clear. I also wasn't following the thread >>until recently, so who *knows* what exactly I think I'm replying to! >>I have a 4 shaft, 6 treadle floor loom. Threading pattern is 1 2 3 4 1 2 >>3 4 etc. Tied up for tabby and for twill. Weaving is in progress. Warp >>is 24 inches wide, cloth is 23 inches wide (drawing in a little). I >>really do have 2 threads in each dent of the reed. Getting a nice tabby >>with twill bands. Not a basketweave in sight. 1/2 yard woven and 6 1/2 >>to go! >> >>liz young >> >> >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 11:40:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBAGeZ74017458 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:40:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAGZs4S017398; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:35:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAGZoe5027592; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:35:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (smtp2.surewest.net [208.45.228.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBAGZge5027362 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:35:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 1867 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2003 16:35:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gateway) (216.93.210.124) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 10 Dec 2003 16:35:33 -0000 From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dirndl pattern Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:35:09 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <3FD6D3E9.9030806@misc.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-TST: smtp2 SNWK2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to all for the Dirndl suggestions. I checked Burda, but all I could find were contemporary clothing. I did check out the Trachten Review and that looks good, so I might buy a copy. ,%%%, --==% `%%%, |' )`%%, \_/\ @%%, __@@" %%%--"""-.%, /`__| \%% \\ \ / | /'%, \] | /----'. < `%, Joan Broneske || `>>> unicorn@surewest.net || ///` /( //( -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Theresa Eacker Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dirndl pattern This one looks interesting: http://store.german-usa.com/Books/Needlework___Sewing/Clothes_Making/trachte n_dirndl_revue_2000.html Theresa Eacker Kim Baird wrote: > Try the Burda pattern company > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Joan Broneske > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 9:48 AM > To: H-costume > Subject: [h-cost] Dirndl pattern > > Does anyone know where I can find a pattern for a traditional German > Dirndl, > besides the Folkwear one? > > Thanks, > > ,%%%, > --==% `%%%, > |' )`%%, > \_/\ @%%, > __@@" %%%--"""-.%, > /`__| \%% > \\ \ / | /'%, > \] | /----'. < `%, > Joan Broneske || `>>> > unicorn@surewest.net || ///` > /( //( > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 17:42:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBAMgs74023497 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:42:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAMgB4S005753; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:42:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAMfl9q018370; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:41:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20212.mail.yahoo.com (web20212.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBAMfS9q017998 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:41:28 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031210223446.76926.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20212.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:34:46 PST Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:34:46 -0800 (PST) From: Angela Kessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200312070407.28419.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > the African > Barbie (they did specify which country she was from, > but I've forgotten) were > not half bad, all things considered. > http://www.barbiecollectibles.com/shop/product.aspx?product_id=59295 I especially like how she's walking on her tiptoes. (Can't speak to the rest of the costume.) -Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 17:44:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBAMi374023502 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:44:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAMek4S005585; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:40:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAMed9q017088; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:40:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from dukcds.cds.duke.edu (dukcds.cds.duke.edu [152.3.16.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAMeU9q016958 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:40:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from cds.duke.edu (dukcds.cds.duke.edu [152.3.16.60]) by dukcds.cds.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hBAMYxC08721 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:34:59 -0500 Message-ID: <3FD7A0BE.5080707@cds.duke.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:39:58 -0500 From: Vicki L Lamb Organization: Duke University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Working with leather X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I'm delurking (once again) to ask for some help. I've purchased some oyster colored suede to make a fencing doublet similar to ones from the late 1500s in Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion". I don't have a lot of experience working with leather, so I was wondering if someone could recommend books or websites on such things. I'm particularly interested in how to do the seams. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Vicki _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 18:32:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBANWF74023732 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:32:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBANVY4S011506; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:31:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBANVWjn007081; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:31:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBANVTjn007019 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:31:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPP00AWCAKGFL@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:31:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:29:54 -0800 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031210142308.00b0d600@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hBANVTjn007019 Subject: [h-cost] 16th c. interlaced embroidery patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all I know we spoke of embroidered knotwork (or interlaced) not being Celtic. But did anyone realize that an interlaced style blackwork embroidery is actually found in a German book of designs? I thought maybe Arabic or something eastern, but German? That just dropped my jaw. http://costume.dm.net/blackwork/germanblackwork.html It is the 33rd one down, interlaced knots and a heart in the middle. Sources indicate it was found in both of the following books: A: Hans Hofer's Formbüchlein, Augsburg, 1545. Reprinted in 1913 as "Zwickauer Facsimiledrucke No. 23" by S. Zwickau, Verlag von F. Ullmann. (Facsimile) Book located in an unnamed Chicago library. B: Nicolas Bassée's New Modelbuch of 1568. Located in the rare book collection on the Newberry Library in Chicago, Illinois, USA. And there is another interlaced style #36 down, or three down from the first one. #38 and #39, too. Hehehe... my husband's going to get German design (perfect for his German heritage), and everyone will think it is Celtic. Oh, my. Just thought I would share. I would love to hear feedback on this. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 19:05:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBB05q74023935 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:05:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB0564S014765; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:05:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB053Va004804; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB050Va004747 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net ([192.168.167.46]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AUEKC-00034e-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:05:00 -0500 Message-ID: <16971355.1071101100203.JavaMail.root@wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:05:00 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th c. interlaced embroidery patterns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ery of Kimiko wrote: >I know we spoke of embroidered knotwork (or interlaced) not being Celtic. >But did anyone realize that an interlaced style blackwork embroidery is >actually found in a German book of designs? I thought maybe Arabic or >something eastern, but German? That just dropped my jaw. Yup, it's all over French and Italian portraits too, once you start looking. For example, look for the Jean Clouet portrait of Francis I at: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/c/clouet/jean/francois.jpg The white strips on his sleeves and chest clearly have couched interlaced cord trimming. I have a very simple pattern of interlacing in black on my burgundy Court gown, and every so often someone will come up and compliment me on the "Celtic interlace" trim. I just smile sweetly and say "Thank you!" ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 20:40:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBB1eM74024328 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:40:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB1cR4S022169; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:38:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB1cMXL004111; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:38:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (sea2-f69.sea2.hotmail.com [207.68.165.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB1cHXL004003 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:38:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:38:12 -0800 Received: from 209.86.133.45 by sea2fd.sea2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:38:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.86.133.45] X-Originating-Email: [sharmah64@hotmail.com] X-Sender: sharmah64@hotmail.com From: "Sharmah Wardlaw-Otwell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:38:11 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2003 01:38:12.0122 (UTC) FILETIME=[703FB7A0:01C3BF87] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, No one has mentioned the India Barbie--I thinks she's amazing and the sari is gorgeous! She was a bit hard to find in the stores,but I have two of them--one for myself and my two year old. Sharmah >From: Angela Kessler >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths >Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:34:46 -0800 (PST) > > >--- Catherine Olanich Raymond >wrote: > > the African > > Barbie (they did specify which country she was from, > > but I've forgotten) were > > not half bad, all things considered. > > > >http://www.barbiecollectibles.com/shop/product.aspx?product_id=59295 > >I especially like how she's walking on her tiptoes. >(Can't speak to the rest of the costume.) > >-Angela > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads and busy signals? Get a high-speed Internet connection! Comparison-shop your local high-speed providers here. https://broadband.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 23:26:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBB4QX74024931 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:26:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB4Pk4S002351; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:25:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB4Pg6a002445; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:25:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB4Pd6b002419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:25:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBB4QHUZ015336 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:26:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBB4QD53015334 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:26:13 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:26:13 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312102326.13334.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 10 December 2003 08:38 pm, Sharmah Wardlaw-Otwell wrote: > Hi, > > No one has mentioned the India Barbie--I thinks she's amazing and the sari > is gorgeous! She was a bit hard to find in the stores,but I have two of > them--one for myself and my two year old. Yes, I've seen pictures of it before, and you're quite right. Mattel seems to do the best job on Barbies in ethnic costume that isn't from the distant past. I was a bit surprised not to find it on the "Barbie's Collectibles" site. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 10 23:30:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBB4Uj74024972 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:30:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB4Su4S002791; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:28:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB4Si6a004601; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:28:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB4SX6b004439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:28:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBB4TBUZ015366 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:29:11 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBB4TBXN015364 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:29:11 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:29:10 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031210223446.76926.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031210223446.76926.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312102329.10762.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 10 December 2003 05:34 pm, Angela Kessler wrote: > --- Catherine Olanich Raymond > > wrote: > > the African > > Barbie (they did specify which country she was from, > > but I've forgotten) were > > not half bad, all things considered. > > http://www.barbiecollectibles.com/shop/product.aspx?product_id=59295 > > I especially like how she's walking on her tiptoes. > (Can't speak to the rest of the costume.) Ah yes, but that's a Barbie thing--they all do that. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 00:04:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBB54P74025100 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:04:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB52X4S005017; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:02:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB52WCc021600; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:02:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB52TCc021572 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:02:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74F8F2F893 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:06:03 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <39394B06-2B97-11D8-B591-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:02:30 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Subject: [h-cost] 7-Cane Drawn Bonnet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone made the Victoria Louise Mercers 7-cane drawn bonnet? I'm having a lot of questions about the pattern instructions, and they aren't in business anymore for me to ask them... .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 00:55:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBB5tC74025324 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:55:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB5sT4S007841; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:54:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB5sRCc017578; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:54:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB5sOCc017559 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:54:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-39-192.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.39.192]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB5rhbP020847 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:53:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031210214829.0592d540@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:54:17 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths In-Reply-To: <200312102329.10762.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <20031210223446.76926.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> <20031210223446.76926.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I especially like how she's walking on her tiptoes. > > (Can't speak to the rest of the costume.) > >Ah yes, but that's a Barbie thing--they all do that. :-) Actually they don't all do that. Some have flat feet in a realistic size. Thrift stores have lots of different Barbies, usually without clothes anymore, if you just want a Barbie, or Ken, to costume. Some have Rapunzel-like quantities of hair, and some have had their hair removed by young costumers. Some are jointed well enough that you can actually get them into full historicals without having to sew them in. My local thrift store sells Barbies and Kens (and other dolls the same shape) for about $1/each. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 01:19:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBB6JD74025393 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:19:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB6HN4S008686; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:17:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB6HMNA027510; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:17:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB6HJNA027490 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:17:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C31D2F92B for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:20:53 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: <3FCBB5DC.16510.64B7A16@localhost> References: <3FCB59A8.21174.4E35118@localhost> <3FCBB5DC.16510.64B7A16@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bust support, was re: 12th c. bust support Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:17:19 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll say it a million times -- I love herroom.com, title9sports.com, and bravissimo.com. They all have great bras in DDD and above... On Dec 1, 2003, at 9:42 PM, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > >> I started out post-adolescence as a 34A. Then, about 5 years ago, I >> lost a fair amount of weight and went down as a result to a 32A. >> >> I can find bras in ordinary stores in 32A; Victoria's Secret also >> carries them. (I'm wearing a VS model as I type this, in fact). It's >> just a bit harder to find them because stores stock fewer bras in >> small sizes.... > > But the A cup is still fairly small. The 28s and 30s are still > nonexistant (just like the G cup bras.)You can usually find As, Bs > and Cs nowadays (mostly at Nordstroms and Victoria Secret) but > finding the Ds and DDs is still *very* difficult. (Especially the > DDs. Forget anything larger.) And they are usually in the more ugly > (to me) styles (like the ones with really heavy, scratchy stretch > lace on the sides. Ugh.) If I'm lucky they have one in my size > (either because they didn't get more in than that or because they've > already sold it to someone else.) And finding them in other stores is > still pretty impossible. > > Frankly, both my 18th C and my several 16th C corsets are far more > comfortable. They just give one a very odd line in modern clothes. ;) > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 03:50:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBB8oL74030236 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 03:50:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB8kD4S014195; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:46:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB8k8Su002688; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:46:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBB8k6Su002681 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPQ002NH30SXA@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:46:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:44:30 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20031210214829.0592d540@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031211004156.00b0da88@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200312102329.10762.cathy@thyrsus.com> <20031210223446.76926.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> <20031210223446.76926.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:54 PM 12/10/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Thrift stores have lots of different Barbies, usually without clothes >anymore, if you just want a Barbie, or Ken, to costume. Some have >Rapunzel-like quantities of hair, and some have had their hair removed by >young costumers. Some are jointed well enough that you can actually get >them into full historicals without having to sew them in. My local thrift >store sells Barbies and Kens (and other dolls the same shape) for about >$1/each. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com Thanks for reminding me of what interesting things can be found at thrift stores. I have been wanting to try doll dresses, but don't want to shell out for a new Barbie that will just end up being modified in major ways. I am hoping to find a good red head, that isn't Daphne. Why is it that Barbie doesn't come in a natural red head, at least in my local stores they don't, unless they are special collectors dolls. Anyways... thanks again. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 07:49:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBCnn74029136 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:49:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBClu4S023789; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 05:47:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBClnPY005700; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 05:47:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBClkPY005679 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 05:47:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.119] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5905A100BA; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:39:44 -0500 Message-ID: <002601c3bfe5$9aa61ee0$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:52:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Dirndle pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hBBCnn74029136 Status: RO Other than the fact that it is Folkwear, what are the objections to the pattern they put out in the '70's? From dirndls I have seen as imported fron Germany, I have always thought that they did a pretty good job . I have used the pattern for almost 30 years now and have never had complaints. After all, it is not hard to make a gathered skirt and bodice. The skirt can be sewn to the bodice or worn separately with a set of bodices. The first time I made the under bodice I was puzzled as to why the pattern was so short, so I lengthened it ...and then discovered WHY. Duh! I have an import that is like the pattern, and realize now that is meant to act like a chemise. Much easier on the upkeep of the costume, also. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 08:01:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBD1p74029203 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:01:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBD1E4S024304; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:01:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBD1C5u011473; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:01:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBD195u011449 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:01:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AA924050A; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:01:06 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:01:05 -0600 Message-ID: <002a01c3bfe6$d71d22a0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031211004156.00b0da88@64.87.54.245> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I seem to recall Barbie had a redheaded friend named "Midge" - mind you, that was 35 years ago.. she is probably a collectable too; by now! Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kimiko Small Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:45 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths At 09:54 PM 12/10/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Thrift stores have lots of different Barbies, usually without clothes >anymore, if you just want a Barbie, or Ken, to costume. Some have >Rapunzel-like quantities of hair, and some have had their hair removed by >young costumers. Some are jointed well enough that you can actually get >them into full historicals without having to sew them in. My local thrift >store sells Barbies and Kens (and other dolls the same shape) for about >$1/each. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com Thanks for reminding me of what interesting things can be found at thrift stores. I have been wanting to try doll dresses, but don't want to shell out for a new Barbie that will just end up being modified in major ways. I am hoping to find a good red head, that isn't Daphne. Why is it that Barbie doesn't come in a natural red head, at least in my local stores they don't, unless they are special collectors dolls. Anyways... thanks again. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 08:41:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBDfo74029463 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:41:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBDdw4S026356; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:39:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBDdt5u028264; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:39:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBDdq5u028244 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:39:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.149] (pm5-149.eos.net [205.133.149.149]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBDdoeP018501 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:39:51 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:40:59 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312101900.hBAJ0TMw017655@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Subject: [h-cost] Re: dirndl X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am stuck at home for the third day in a row with a child sick with flu, and for some reason this list is practically dead. So I'm going to beat a dead horse and reply to this one again in the hopes of prodding things back to life. There IS a dirndl skirt in the Burda catalog, at least the one we have in the US! It is part of a "German" ensemble. If I recall, it is in the regular dress or skirt part of the catalog, not the costume section. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 08:59:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBDxm74029515 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:59:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBDx74S027774; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:59:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBDx5uZ008244; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBDx1uZ008197 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.103] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A645ED0090; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:51:01 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c3bfef$9008f160$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: dirndl Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:03:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am not surprised at all. Since the style is not exactly what we might think in this country as following fashion, as our pattern companies seem to do, the dirndl is a common every day-season skirt. Growing up in the 1950's, this was the homegrown pattern for most of our skirts (country, NH). Mother called them 'dirndls'. We wore them with a wide variety of tops. Maybe we should ask, " What makes a skirt a dirndl in the year2003?" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:40 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: dirndl > > I am stuck at home for the third day in a row with a child sick with flu, > and for some reason this list is practically dead. So I'm going to beat a > dead horse and reply to this one again in the hopes of prodding things back > to life. > > There IS a dirndl skirt in the Burda catalog, at least the one we have in > the US! It is part of a "German" ensemble. If I recall, it is in the regular > dress or skirt part of the catalog, not the costume section. > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 09:06:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBE6374029533 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:06:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBE464S028056; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:04:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBE43uZ010726; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBE3xuZ010619 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:04:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m91.in-tch.com [216.166.191.91]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBBDgMo02535 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:42:22 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FD879EE.D46C2B7A@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:06:38 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: New topics, was:[h-cost] Re: dirndl References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry about the sick kid, and the dead-ish list. I haven't been paying much attention to much lately, between holiday preparations and my newest obsession (weaving). Here's a possible topic: A lot of us are forever expanding our skills and knowledge-bases. So...what new skills have folks been practicing lately? I've been learning to weave (twill is a blast--my learning piece [a series of towel-things] is done in a sort of herringbone pattern, and this little diamond-like pattern that's swedish, I think). And I want to experiment with some scarves woven using medieval weaves, plus one that's based on this article in _Handwoven_ on the LoTR cloaks. --sue Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > I am stuck at home for the third day in a row with a child sick with flu, > and for some reason this list is practically dead. So I'm going to beat a > dead horse and reply to this one again in the hopes of prodding things back > to life. > > There IS a dirndl skirt in the Burda catalog, at least the one we have in > the US! It is part of a "German" ensemble. If I recall, it is in the regular > dress or skirt part of the catalog, not the costume section. > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 09:10:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBEAW74029544 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:10:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBEA04S028433; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBE9wuZ013504; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:09:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBE9suZ013440 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:09:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m91.in-tch.com [216.166.191.91]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBBDmHo04880 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:48:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:12:32 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Another new topic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While I bet a whole lot of us are caught up in the holidays and "life" requirements (I know I am!), I betcha we've also got projects planned for the new year. So...what are we all going to be doing? I'm planning on the following: --lots of weaving samples from pre-17th c. sources --a 10th-c. (western) Norse woman's outfit (handsewn) --and a shirt for a friend, based on a 16th c. german shirt that was posted on this list a while ago (this will have lots of blackwork and pulled-thread embroidery) --oh, and a Flemish market outfit for myself (a bunch of us locals want to form a group that meets once a week and works on them), and --at least one 12th/13th c. German outfit --sue, who will never, never get tired of fibers and fabric! ;o) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 09:17:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBEHK74029555 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:17:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBEGb4S028804; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:16:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBEGauZ016818; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:16:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from pri-dns1.mtco.com (pri-dns1.mtco.com [207.179.200.251]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBBEGXuZ016805 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:16:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 20852 invoked by uid 201); 11 Dec 2003 14:13:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO y3r8b8) (207.179.215.227) by ns.mtco.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2003 14:13:18 -0000 Message-ID: <002001c3bff1$ea10d0e0$e3d7b3cf@y3r8b8> From: "Sarah Jane Edwards" <1warcry@mtco.com> To: References: <200312081901.hB8J1eBB023298@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:20:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Re: New, and a few questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Thanks, everyone, for your most helpful replies! You all have cleared up a lot of the more misty issues for me, I surely do appreciate the time you took to answer my questions! Thanks so much! Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 09:31:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBEVn74029599 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:31:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBETs4S029603; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:29:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBETruZ023765; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:29:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBETouZ023729 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:29:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2inikbr.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.81.123] helo=[209.86.74.248]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AURp7-0002Sv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:29:50 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200312111405.hBBE4uub011104@net.indra.com> References: <200312111405.hBBE4uub011104@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:29:43 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] LoTR cloaks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO to experiment with some scarves woven using medieval weaves, plus one that's based on this article in _Handwoven_ on the LoTR cloaks. Which issue of Handwoven??? Thanks Carol Yeah, like I *need* another loom project _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 09:32:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBEWW74029607 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:32:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBEVp4S029709; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:31:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBEVnuZ024847; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:31:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mattdrury.net (adslct226.cofs.net [66.77.170.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBEVkuZ024818 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:31:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from Spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MO002A14; 11 Dec 03 09:31:46 -0500 Received: from spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32); 11 Dec 03 09:31:44 -0500 Received: from mjd (66.77.170.226) by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) with ESMTP ID MG002A13; 11 Dec 03 09:31:39 -0500 Message-ID: <013001c3bff3$7c7beb80$13fea8c0@mjd> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:31:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > So...what are we all going to be doing? My namesake, this time with a closer eye to authenticity. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 09:41:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBEfG74029660 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:41:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBEeZ4S000485; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:40:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBEeXuZ000470; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:40:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBEeUuZ000371 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:40:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:40:25 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:40:11 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Re: Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costum X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for reminding me of what interesting things can be found at thrift stores. I have been wanting to try doll dresses, but don't want to shell out for a new Barbie that will just end up being modified in major ways. I am hoping to find a good red head, that isn't Daphne. Why is it that Barbie doesn't come in a natural red head, at least in my local stores they don't, unless they are special collectors dolls. Anyways... thanks again. Kimiko >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Teddy Bears are also great to rescue from thrift stores and dress up. I have done several SF and rennie costumes on bears for folks over the years. One of their advantages over Barbie dolls is that you can pin things to them for fitting :). Hint: get the ones with longer arms and legs, easier to fit, especially if you need to do sleeve details. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 09:46:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBEk874029728 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:46:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBEjO4S000811; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:45:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBEjMuZ003741; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBEjJuZ003708 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:45:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-217-1-211.asm.bellsouth.net [68.217.1.211]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBBEjEWJ029657 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:45:14 -0500 Message-ID: <00a601c3bff5$62b57de0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:45:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well lets see..... First, a full length houpelande for my husband out of this gorgeous green and gold brocade. Then, a farsetto and giornea for one of the students in my SCA Barony (he looks just like Orlando Bloom!). Then a fur-lined cioppa for myself . I am also starting a research project tracing the evolution of the Italian v-necked overdress and an Italian Ren dress image archive for the 14th and 15th centuries. Also... how is this for training my husband up right..... He woke me at 5 am to say goodbye as he was leaving for work and asked if silk would be an appropriate fabric for a houpelande. Apparently he had found some lovely blue silk in my fabric stash. When I met him, he didn't know silk from a hole in the ground! That is one of the reasons why I love him! Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:12 AM Subject: [h-cost] Another new topic > While I bet a whole lot of us are caught up in the holidays and "life" > requirements (I know I am!), I betcha we've also got projects planned > for the new year. > So...what are we all going to be doing? > I'm planning on the following: > --lots of weaving samples from pre-17th c. sources > --a 10th-c. (western) Norse woman's outfit (handsewn) > --and a shirt for a friend, based on a 16th c. german shirt that was > posted on this list a while ago (this will have lots of blackwork and > pulled-thread embroidery) > --oh, and a Flemish market outfit for myself (a bunch of us locals want > to form a group that meets once a week and works on them), and > --at least one 12th/13th c. German outfit > --sue, who will never, never get tired of fibers and fabric! ;o) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 09:48:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBEmK74029738 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:48:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBElL4S000963; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:47:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBElGuZ004868; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:47:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-dav41.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.10.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBElCuZ004751 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:47:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:47:07 -0800 Received: from 63.238.214.10 by bay7-dav41.bay7.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:47:06 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.238.214.10] X-Originating-Email: [robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com] X-Sender: robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com From: "Kelly Dorman" To: Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:47:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2003 14:47:07.0077 (UTC) FILETIME=[A614A750:01C3BFF5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] 7 cane drawn bonnet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hBBEmK74029738 Status: RO Hello (coming out of lurkdom), I've made that pattern several times, and yes, the directions are rather cryptic in some regards. I'd be glad to help anyway I can - what are your questions? I don't remember if my first one had seven canes or not, and unfortunately it is in storage "across" for several more months until I finally have a home again (currently I have a foundation!) I know on subsequent bonnets I added more canes and also inserted some ruffles between the canes. Kelly Dorman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 10:03:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBF3j74029789 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:03:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBF1p4S001951; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:01:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBF1mHe013575; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:01:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBF1jHe013526 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:01:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hBBF1dx5027245 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:01:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031211095231.01918538@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:01:43 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic In-Reply-To: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll bite... An arming coat, ca 1380. Quilted black velvet with yellow silk Cathar crosses couched down and beaded. Lined in satin, quilted with wool. handsewn already started due March A pair of gloves knit of merino and silk, guage = 20 st. / inch due March already started A kirtle Flemish ca 1430. Handsewn. due March A gown Venetian / perhaps Sienese of green velvet ca. 1550. due January A chemise for the preceeding gown... the goldwork for the chemise is done. due January A Spanish kirtle ca. 1450s of shot silk, carnary warp and crimson weft, looks like its on fire in the light. already started, due January A spanish over gown ca. 1450s of crimson velvet due January The gold passamentiere work is in progress That's it. Bridgette >While I bet a whole lot of us are caught up in the holidays and "life" >requirements (I know I am!), I betcha we've also got projects planned >for the new year. >So...what are we all going to be doing? >I'm planning on the following: >--lots of weaving samples from pre-17th c. sources >--a 10th-c. (western) Norse woman's outfit (handsewn) >--and a shirt for a friend, based on a 16th c. german shirt that was >posted on this list a while ago (this will have lots of blackwork and >pulled-thread embroidery) >--oh, and a Flemish market outfit for myself (a bunch of us locals want >to form a group that meets once a week and works on them), and >--at least one 12th/13th c. German outfit >--sue, who will never, never get tired of fibers and fabric! ;o) >_______________________________________________ Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 10:16:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBFGd74029819 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:16:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBFEp4S002912; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:14:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBFEnHe021666; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:14:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBFEjHe021607 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:14:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23099 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:40:50 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:40:50 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic In-Reply-To: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote: > While I bet a whole lot of us are caught up in the holidays and "life" > requirements (I know I am!), I betcha we've also got projects planned > for the new year. > So...what are we all going to be doing? -- Finishing revisions on my new lecture on heraldic dress (I presented it informally for a small group last summer -- hi, Teena! -- and need to spruce it up), which includes visiting at least three libraries/museums to get new slides. -- Lecture days (both to include the above lecture) in Philadelphia on Feb. 28 and Springfield, Illinois on March 13. -- Revising a three-year-old not-yet-published paper to go into the first volume of Medieval Dress & Textiles, and getting photo permissions (gaaak) for it. -- Working with authors (hi Drea and Susan!) for eight or so other papers for that same volume, editing the resulting papers, and dealing with the publisher to get the thing in print. -- Reviewing at least one book for the above, assuming my review copy ever gets here. -- Reading drafts of papers for the DISTAFF sessions at Kalamazoo in May; other frantic preparations for the conference; running a track of four sessions and a reception. -- Making a living and supporting a family of four. That takes me through mid-May. Sewing? Who's got time to sew? Of course that doesn't stop me from buying more fabric... Though I would love to make a proper headdress to wear with my lecture outfit. What I've got is a stage-prop set of half-globe cauls :-P --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 10:49:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBFns74030006 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:49:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBFkF4k005726; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:49:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBFhDHe013604; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:43:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBFdfHe010470 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:39:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hBBFfaA13824.; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:41:36 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:39:38 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:39:20 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costum Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> ckinsey@kumc.edu 12/11/03 2:40:11 PM >>> >Teddy Bears are also great to rescue from thrift stores and dress up. >I have done several SF and rennie costumes on bears for folks over the >years. One of their advantages over Barbie dolls is that you can pin >things to them for fitting :). Hint: get the ones with longer arms >and legs, easier to fit, especially if you need to do sleeve details. >Catherine Yes, I dressed a bear I got as a free gift once, but found the cut a bit tricky because of the thickness of the arms compared to a person! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 10:55:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBFtk74030029 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:55:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBFsx4S006841; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:55:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBFsux9023396; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:54:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav35.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBFspx9023221 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:54:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:54:45 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav35.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:54:45 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FD879EE.D46C2B7A@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: New topics, was:[h-cost] Re: dirndl Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:54:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2003 15:54:45.0805 (UTC) FILETIME=[194565D0:01C3BFFF] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Here's a possible topic: A lot of us are forever expanding our skills > and knowledge-bases. So...what new skills have folks been practicing > lately? Besides Christmas planning and shopping? Hmm... I've been intensely scrutinizing PoF and starting to understand how things were built then. The amount of info in these books is amazing! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 11:00:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBG0m74030061 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:00:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBFxm4S007612; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:59:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBFxj2S027522; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:59:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav29.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBFxg2S027383 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:59:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:59:37 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav29.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:59:36 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> <00a601c3bff5$62b57de0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:59:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2003 15:59:37.0012 (UTC) FILETIME=[C6D80F40:01C3BFFF] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > So...what are we all going to be doing? We're trying to plan a wedding outfit for one of my male friends. He's usually early period (read basic T-tunic) in the SCA but both he and his girlfriend want something else for the wedding. I'm trying to steer him towards Margo's patterns. He has an eye on Boromir's outfit in the first part of the Fellowship, but he's short (not even 5'5) and chubby, so I will never make him something as long as Boromir's vest. He also has an eye on the fur cape at the beginning of Gladiator. The problem he has with Renaissance stuff is that he wants to be a barbarian with chainmail and a battle axe. We're set on a leather doublet/vest/something, but what shape it would have and what it would go with is still a mystery. Any suggestions? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 11:02:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBG2B74030070 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:02:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBG0D4S007697; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:00:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBG0B2S027984; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:00:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBFxI2S027069 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:59:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be7a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.122]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5348A5EE36B for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:59:17 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002201c3c000$01ce82f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031210223446.76926.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:01:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Just looked. Did you see the doll with the blue dress called princess of the danish court. I wonder why they call it danish. I have never seen a portrait of a princes with this dress. well well, it is a pretty dress, Bjarne from Denmark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Kessler" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths > > --- Catherine Olanich Raymond > wrote: > > the African > > Barbie (they did specify which country she was from, > > but I've forgotten) were > > not half bad, all things considered. > > > > http://www.barbiecollectibles.com/shop/product.aspx?product_id=59295 > > I especially like how she's walking on her tiptoes. > (Can't speak to the rest of the costume.) > > -Angela > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 11:05:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBG5n74030093 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:05:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBG3s4S008114; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:03:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBG3q2S001505; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:03:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBBG3Q2S000970 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:03:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Opo4FGNLBrAuttkqDYNrv4g=">; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:02:37 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JG5PGB4Q; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:02:37 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:38:45 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Message-ID: <20031211.080159.1688.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-8,15-17 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:12:32 -0700 Sue Clemenger writes: > While I bet a whole lot of us are caught up in the holidays and > "life" > requirements (I know I am!), I betcha we've also got projects > planned > for the new year. > So...what are we all going to be doing? I'm embroidering a lot of Xmas gifts this year. Next year, I want to learn German brick stitch and possibly needlelace (if my hands will let me). I also hope to get some music to a publisher. Other projects--finish putting two classes together, one on attitudes towards and expectations of medieval wives based on primary source materials, and one on competition preparation, both for SCA, both for a March session of the University of Ithra in the Portland (OR) area. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 11:08:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBG8r74030107 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:08:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBG7x4S008686; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:07:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBG7u2S005184; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:07:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBBG7m2S004981 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:07:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27107 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2003 16:07:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gateway) (216.93.210.124) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net with SMTP; 11 Dec 2003 16:07:38 -0000 From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: dirndl Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:07:58 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-TST: smtp1 SNWK X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I did happen to locate the Burda patterns on line and found the dirndl pattern. I tried looking for it the other day, and I found a site with Burda patterns, but all I could find on that site were contemporary clothes. Now I just have to either order it or find somewhere locally that sells Burda patterns. I have the Folkwear dirndl pattern, and I think I may make it up just to see how it looks. The only thing about it that strikes me kind of funny is the fact that there is kind of a weird gusset in the breast area of the lower cut bodice and I'm wondering if that is really a necessary piece, or could it be left out? Is it for shaping? ,%%%, --==% `%%%, |' )`%%, \_/\ @%%, __@@" %%%--"""-.%, /`__| \%% \\ \ / | /'%, \] | /----'. < `%, Joan Broneske || `>>> unicorn@surewest.net || ///` /( //( -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Gail & Scott Finke Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 5:41 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: dirndl I am stuck at home for the third day in a row with a child sick with flu, and for some reason this list is practically dead. So I'm going to beat a dead horse and reply to this one again in the hopes of prodding things back to life. There IS a dirndl skirt in the Burda catalog, at least the one we have in the US! It is part of a "German" ensemble. If I recall, it is in the regular dress or skirt part of the catalog, not the costume section. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 11:12:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBGCA74030116 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:12:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGBR4S009209; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGBP2S008184; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:11:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from providenceday.org (treebeard.providenceday.org [66.193.73.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGBL2S008056 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:11:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.20.1.3] (HELO providenceday.org) by providenceday.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.5) with ESMTP id 890269 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:12:16 -0500 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:13:49 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th c. interlaced embroidery patterns Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Grace Morris To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <16971355.1071101100203.JavaMail.root@wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Message-Id: <26513460-2C0E-11D8-8E70-000393D30BFA@providenceday.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Curiously, where you DON'T see _as much_ is in Spain...so much for "Spanish Work".... Jessamyn/Grace On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 04:05 PM, Chris Laning wrote: > ery of Kimiko wrote: >> I know we spoke of embroidered knotwork (or interlaced) not being >> Celtic. >> But did anyone realize that an interlaced style blackwork embroidery >> is >> actually found in a German book of designs? I thought maybe Arabic or >> something eastern, but German? That just dropped my jaw. > > Yup, it's all over French and Italian portraits too, once you start > looking. For example, look for the Jean Clouet portrait of Francis I > at: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/c/clouet/jean/francois.jpg > > The white strips on his sleeves and chest clearly have couched > interlaced cord trimming. > > I have a very simple pattern of interlacing in black on my burgundy > Court gown, and every so often someone will come up and compliment me > on the "Celtic interlace" trim. I just smile sweetly and say "Thank > you!" > > > ____________________________________________________________ > 0 Chris Laning > | > + Davis, California > ____________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 11:24:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBGON74030155 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:24:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGKt4S010411; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:20:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGKq2S016871; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:20:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGKk2S016756 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:20:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id A95B99B0290; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:20:43 -0600 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1071159642991; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:20:42 -0600 Message-ID: <003d01c3c001$d7a1a0a0$1d64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FD879EE.D46C2B7A@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: New topics, was:[h-cost] Re: dirndl Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:14:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Here's a possible topic: A lot of us are forever expanding our skills > and knowledge-bases. So...what new skills have folks been practicing > lately? > > I'm working on hand seam finishings, as well as some new embroidery skills. I mean if you're going to have a handsewn late 14th-early 15th ensemble, you NEED that alms purse too. I've never done split stitch or intense shading that so it will be a new experience. I'm still researching enameling techniques for making some Elizabethan style jewelry. I'm still working on shoe making so I have the proper shoes, regardless of the era and style that I'm wearing. And since I have lots of "free time"* I'm learning to do calligraphy and illumination, inspired from looking at lots of such works for costume inspiration for the ensemble mentioned above. Cyn * ok, so I have a compulsion to create and I like to challenge myself. I don't know what free time is anymore. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 11:24:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBGOP74030158 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:24:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGLE4S010481; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:21:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGLD2S017163; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:21:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGKt2S016819 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:20:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.15b.298cdc92 (18555) for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:20:44 -0500 (EST) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: <15b.298cdc92.2d09f35b@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:20:43 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6024 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>>>>>>> We're trying to plan a wedding outfit for one of my male friends. He's usually early period (read basic T-tunic) in the SCA but both he and his girlfriend want something else for the wedding. I'm trying to steer him towards Margo's patterns. He has an eye on Boromir's outfit in the first part of the Fellowship, but he's short (not even 5'5) and chubby, so I will never make him something as long as Boromir's vest. He also has an eye on the fur cape at the beginning of Gladiator. The problem he has with Renaissance stuff is that he wants to be a barbarian with chainmail and a battle axe. We're set on a leather doublet/vest/something, but what shape it would have and what it would go with is still a mystery. Any suggestions? >>>>>>>>>> Just off the top of my head, what did the Varangian Guard wear? Did they stick with "ethnic" clothing, or did they get a little fancier as time went on? Not Renaissance, I know, but it might be easier to get him into it. I saw some incredible stuff at a travelling exhibit on the Russian Czars, but even the early outfits aren't all that barbarian. Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 11:31:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBGVA74030195 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:31:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGUK4S011529; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:30:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGUI2S025176; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:30:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBBGUG2S025148 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:30:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031211163016.23837.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.78.211.128] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:30:16 PST Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:30:16 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well ,I am learning the intricacies of making fine chain-linked and pearl jewelry , most of it for christmas season commissions---and maybe a couple of pieces for me:) I'm also working on a Regency style tiara for another friend--due in mid january. Lots of sewing commissions---an Edwardian corset in blue gray taffeta , with black lace and ribbon trim--due by New Year's Eve; a gold silk cotehardie to go under a black one that was embroidered with gold heraldic lions--all due by january 8th; a couple of 16th century Italian/venetian style dresses, due in early february ; a 14th century arming coat, due mid february; 2 'Bog Dresses' and a Viking, due mid march. And , somewhere , in the midst all of that , it would be fun to make something for ME:( Albra Sue Clemenger wrote: While I bet a whole lot of us are caught up in the holidays and "life" requirements (I know I am!), I betcha we've also got projects planned for the new year. So...what are we all going to be doing? I'm planning on the following: --lots of weaving samples from pre-17th c. sources --a 10th-c. (western) Norse woman's outfit (handsewn) --and a shirt for a friend, based on a 16th c. german shirt that was posted on this list a while ago (this will have lots of blackwork and pulled-thread embroidery) --oh, and a Flemish market outfit for myself (a bunch of us locals want to form a group that meets once a week and works on them), and --at least one 12th/13th c. German outfit --sue, who will never, never get tired of fibers and fabric! ;o) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 11:57:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBGvf74030268 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:57:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGv34S015055; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGv2lI020275; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGuwlI020127 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:56:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.7d.42c0de2b (4418) for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:56:43 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <7d.42c0de2b.2d09fbcb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:56:43 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll bite as well...perhaps then I'll get things done, yes? (Hopefully?) - ca. 1565-1570 lower-noble Elizabethan gown of brownish-goldish silk noil with pearl and garnet beaded silk-satin forepart - New linen Elizabethan corset for said gown (boned with cable ties) - New linen smock for said gown - Linen (woven) stockings for the gown. Still thinking up what to use for garters, probably just ties since they certainly weren't at all like modern garters - Finish a cheongsam that I started in August (yummy dark blue and gold brocade) - Black linen-lined wool kirtle a la Drea's patterns on the Elizabethan costuming site (bodice will be interlined with either heavier weight linen if I have enough left over from the corset, or cotton duck-type fabric) [note: This is starting to turn into a Flemish working-class gown project. Except that "black was expensive". That will take me till...after I get home from college in May. I'll be drafting the kirtle bodice here (hopefully), but it will probably be constructed at home. Because even if my parents were to let me have the machine here, there isn't anywhere in my dorm room to put it except on my roommate's head (and really, I don't think she'd appreciate being sewn on). Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 11:58:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBGwM74030280 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:58:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGtt4S014886; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:55:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGtrlI019161; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:55:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBGtllI019075 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:55:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAF412F8CB for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:59:20 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 7 cane drawn bonnet Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:55:46 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yay! someone has made it. Ok, so I'm NOT making it with the canes, because I didn't have enough fabric for that, as I am using scrap. So I just covered the outer part flat, and gathered the facing. She mentions nothing about lining the inside in the instructions, and I'm really really confused about how to attach the capote back. She says to attach to center back top and bottom... but is that the inside or outside? I haven't been able to find good photos to use, and her instructions are so weird! here's photos of where I'm at now... http://www.wonderland.com/~alice/bonnet/ It's all in silk duchesse, and I love it, but I'm just not sure what she meant for me to do. .heather. On Dec 11, 2003, at 6:47 AM, Kelly Dorman wrote: > Hello (coming out of lurkdom), > > I've made that pattern several times, and yes, the directions are > rather cryptic in some regards. I'd be glad to help anyway I can - > what are your questions? I don't remember if my first one had seven > canes or not, and unfortunately it is in storage "across" for several > more months until I finally have a home again (currently I have a > foundation!) I know on subsequent bonnets I added more canes and also > inserted some ruffles between the canes. > Kelly Dorman > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 12:01:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBH1x74030302 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:01:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBH1V4S015589; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:01:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBH1TlI024455; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:01:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBH1OlI024305 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:01:26 -0700 (MST) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 460220 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:01:19 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:01:19 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: dirndl From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 12/11/03 8:07 AM, "Joan Broneske" wrote: > I did happen to locate the Burda patterns on line and found the dirndl > pattern. I tried looking for it the other day, and I found a site with > Burda patterns, but all I could find on that site were contemporary clothes. > Now I just have to either order it or find somewhere locally that sells > Burda patterns. > Joan, the two Joann Fabrics in my area sell Burda patterns. And at 50% off. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 12:18:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBHIv74030343 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:18:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBHHa4S017832; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:17:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBHHXlI010060; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:17:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBHHTlI010002 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:17:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip68.209-63-24.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [209.63.24.68]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E686F70DB7 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:15:52 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:15:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Message-ID: <3FD835C1.568.1F2D01E0@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <15b.298cdc92.2d09f35b@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Just off the top of my head, what did the Varangian Guard wear? Did > they stick with "ethnic" clothing, or did they get a little fancier as > time went on? Not Renaissance, I know, but it might be easier to get > him into it. They wore Byzantine soldier's clothing. Most of them were of Norse or Russian extraction but took up the wearing of the clothes of the area where they were working as soon as they got there. So, kneelength Byzantine tunic with a cloak was the most common thing you'd see them wear. They wore colored hose beneath the tunic. Unfortunately, there are *no* good books on the costuming of the Byzantines. You have to go to the art (especially manuscripts and the like) to know what was being worn. So, look in history books (because they often have the art as illustrations) and books like the Metropolitan Museum of Art's _The Glory of Byzantium_. Look for the guys with spears who are guarding the Royals as those are usually the Varangians. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 12:27:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBHRo74031149 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:27:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBHPq4S018772; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:25:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBHPolI017684; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:25:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBHPklI017617 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:25:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip68.209-63-24.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [209.63.24.68]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FA3D70D92 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:20:16 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:20:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Message-ID: <3FD836CD.20280.1F311892@localhost> Priority: normal References: <4.3.1.2.20031210214829.0592d540@mail.frys.com> In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20031211004156.00b0da88@64.87.54.245> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Thanks for reminding me of what interesting things can be found at > thrift stores. I have been wanting to try doll dresses, but don't want > to shell out for a new Barbie that will just end up being modified in > major ways. I am hoping to find a good red head, that isn't Daphne. > Why is it that Barbie doesn't come in a natural red head, at least in > my local stores they don't, unless they are special collectors dolls. They used to sell just the heads in various colors of hair with various hairstyles. They were very useful after cousins or careless friends damaged your Barbie's hair. (I still have my original Barbie with the 1957 copyright stamped into her back. Of course, she's not in mint condition as she got lots of use. But I still have her and others such as Tutti the preschooler and Skipper the middle schooler.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 12:32:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBHWm74032004 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:32:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBHUU4S019208; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:30:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBHUSlI022074; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:30:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBHUNlI021986 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:30:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CF12F92C for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:33:53 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: References: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> <00a601c3bff5$62b57de0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:30:18 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Right now I am sewing a waistcoat for my boy, and a bonnet for me. In the new year, I'll be making some Edwardians for a picnic (not sure what the design will be yet!) and an 1830's full ensemble for Costume College. .heather. On Dec 11, 2003, at 7:59 AM, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: >> So...what are we all going to be doing? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 12:55:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBHtm74032127 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:55:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBHsD4S021615; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:54:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBHsAlI014393; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:54:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBHs4lI014294 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:54:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55DC62F895 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:57:37 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: References: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> <00a601c3bff5$62b57de0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <01482245-2C03-11D8-B591-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:54:02 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, and I forgot -- in the new year I'll be sewing three wedding dresses for May/June/July weddings, and one waistcoat, and possibly some bridesmaids dresses, too! On Dec 11, 2003, at 9:30 AM, Heather Meadows wrote: > Right now I am sewing a waistcoat for my boy, and a bonnet for me. > > In the new year, I'll be making some Edwardians for a picnic (not sure > what the design will be yet!) and an 1830's full ensemble for Costume > College. > > > .heather. > > > > On Dec 11, 2003, at 7:59 AM, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > >>> So...what are we all going to be doing? >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 13:11:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBIBK74032203 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:11:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIAT4S023442; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIAPDO029806; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:10:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21410.mail.yahoo.com (web21410.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBBIALDO029732 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:10:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031211180930.47134.qmail@web21410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.82.36.102] by web21410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:09:30 PST Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:09:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmm, First: wedding ensemble for my wedding - mid-14th Cen GFD with sideless surcoat (from the skin out) for me, cotehardies for the groom and his 3 groomsmen and GFDs for my three attendents--thank goodness the MOH is helping! (the other 2 will as well, but they're not as proficient yet) Second: chuppah for said wedding, so that my friend Bronwyn can get the embroidery done on it (her wedding gift) 2 outfits for my youngest attendent because she has very little clothing to wear to events and conventions. I want to make one of the victorian outfits from the books I ordered from Fran last year as a self-birthday gift. Molly and I are also working on a Masquerade presentation for April based on LOTR. I've got a commission from a friend who wants "girly" clothes for an Anglo-Saxon persona- 6 more gowns to go. Banners for my household (4 total) New clothes for my son Teren to wear at events because he's growing, and he wants his device elements on them. New clothes for my step-sons to be, as they are outgrowing theirs, but don't quite fit Teren's. I want to look at making an 18th century gown...the inspiration fabric's been sitting on my shelves now for 4 years now. Clear out at least one drawer of UFOs and make one of the quilts And of course several non-historical costumes (besides LOTR) that are sitting in my sketchbook crying to be made. Sew much to do, too little time! Angharad, (wolfcat) who had a blast with a new friend in the garment district this month. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 13:17:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBIHZ74032216 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:17:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIGl4S024092; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:16:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIGkDO005735; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:16:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBBIGhDO005666 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:16:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 88314 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Dec 2003 15:12:38 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.720704 secs); 11 Dec 2003 15:12:38 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.720704 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Dec 2003 15:12:36 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:12:39 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bust support, was re: 12th c. bust support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031211101213.E59789-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather, Thanks so much! I'm a DDD/F, and gave up finding nice bras long ago...these sites are great! Drea On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Heather Meadows wrote: > I'll say it a million times -- I love herroom.com, title9sports.com, > and bravissimo.com. > > They all have great bras in DDD and above... > > > On Dec 1, 2003, at 9:42 PM, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > > >> I started out post-adolescence as a 34A. Then, about 5 years ago, I > >> lost a fair amount of weight and went down as a result to a 32A. > >> > >> I can find bras in ordinary stores in 32A; Victoria's Secret also > >> carries them. (I'm wearing a VS model as I type this, in fact). It's > >> just a bit harder to find them because stores stock fewer bras in > >> small sizes.... > > > > But the A cup is still fairly small. The 28s and 30s are still > > nonexistant (just like the G cup bras.)You can usually find As, Bs > > and Cs nowadays (mostly at Nordstroms and Victoria Secret) but > > finding the Ds and DDs is still *very* difficult. (Especially the > > DDs. Forget anything larger.) And they are usually in the more ugly > > (to me) styles (like the ones with really heavy, scratchy stretch > > lace on the sides. Ugh.) If I'm lucky they have one in my size > > (either because they didn't get more in than that or because they've > > already sold it to someone else.) And finding them in other stores is > > still pretty impossible. > > > > Frankly, both my 18th C and my several 16th C corsets are far more > > comfortable. They just give one a very odd line in modern clothes. ;) > > > > Kat > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 13:24:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBIO274032237 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:24:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIM14S024629; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBILtDO010597; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:21:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBILoDO010481 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:21:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hBBILhf20528 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:21:45 -0500 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:28:21 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20031211.080159.1688.0.Cley@juno.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I'll be doing mostly graduate school stuff. Funny how that doesn't leave room for much else. :D I would really like to finish the black work coif I started *mumble* years ago. It's the only outstanding project I have. Althea On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 07:38 AM, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:12:32 -0700 Sue Clemenger > writes: >> While I bet a whole lot of us are caught up in the holidays and >> "life" >> requirements (I know I am!), I betcha we've also got projects >> planned >> for the new year. >> So...what are we all going to be doing? > > I'm embroidering a lot of Xmas gifts this year. Next year, I want to > learn German brick stitch and possibly needlelace (if my hands will let > me). I also hope to get some music to a publisher. Other > projects--finish > putting two classes together, one on attitudes towards and expectations > of medieval wives based on primary source materials, and one on > competition preparation, both for SCA, both for a March session of the > University of Ithra in the Portland (OR) area. > > Arlys > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 13:46:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBIkU74032345 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:46:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIjh4S026884; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:45:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIjgDO003195; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:45:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.primushost.com (smtp3.primushost.com [209.58.220.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIjcDP003042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:45:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp3.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1AUVoa-0002c3-Hl; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:45:32 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 1AUVHg-0003px-00; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:11:32 -0500 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:11:32 -0500 (EST) From: Katy Bishop To: Joan Broneske Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: dirndl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Historical Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Joan Broneske wrote: > >I have the Folkwear dirndl pattern, and I think I may make it up just to see >how it looks. The only thing about it that strikes me kind of funny is the >fact that there is kind of a weird gusset in the breast area of the lower >cut bodice and I'm wondering if that is really a necessary piece, or could >it be left out? Is it for shaping? I have a dirndl I got in Vienna (about 25 years ago) in black linen with hooks at center front and the gusset shaping you mentioned from the Folkwear Pattern. It shapes the bust area in place of princess seams, as the bodice is cut low enough to not curve back in over the top of bust but forms more of a shelf. The blouse then covers the bust. The Flokwear Pattern is pretty good and accurate. I would recemmend it. The dirndl I got in Vienna last year has a very deep dart from the waist, and a bust dart coming from the armhole, and a separate front piece acting as a stomacher. It is higher cut over the bust. Let me know if I can give further info. Katy Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 13:46:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBIkv74032350 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:46:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIiw4S026829; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:44:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIiqDO002384; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:44:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIiaDO002022 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:44:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hBBIiUq27395 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:44:30 -0500 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:51:08 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hello, Would you please tell me the group that is publishing this journal and who I would talk to about doing book reviews? Thank you, Althea Turner On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 08:40 AM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote: > >> While I bet a whole lot of us are caught up in the holidays and "life" >> requirements (I know I am!), I betcha we've also got projects planned >> for the new year. >> So...what are we all going to be doing? > > -- Finishing revisions on my new lecture on heraldic dress (I > presented > it informally for a small group last summer -- hi, Teena! -- and need > to > spruce it up), which includes visiting at least three > libraries/museums to > get new slides. > -- Lecture days (both to include the above lecture) in Philadelphia on > Feb. 28 and Springfield, Illinois on March 13. > -- Revising a three-year-old not-yet-published paper to go into the > first > volume of Medieval Dress & Textiles, and getting photo permissions > (gaaak) > for it. > -- Working with authors (hi Drea and Susan!) for eight or so other > papers > for that same volume, editing the resulting papers, and dealing with > the > publisher to get the thing in print. > -- Reviewing at least one book for the above, assuming my review copy > ever gets here. > -- Reading drafts of papers for the DISTAFF sessions at Kalamazoo in > May; > other frantic preparations for the conference; running a track of four > sessions and a reception. > -- Making a living and supporting a family of four. > > That takes me through mid-May. > > Sewing? Who's got time to sew? Of course that doesn't stop me from > buying > more fabric... Though I would love to make a proper headdress to wear > with > my lecture outfit. What I've got is a stage-prop set of half-globe > cauls > :-P > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 13:47:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBIlI74032358 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:47:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIkP4S026952; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:46:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIkNDO003853; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:46:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIjpDO003293 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:45:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5692F893 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:49:23 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: <20031211101213.E59789-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: <20031211101213.E59789-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <3CE79775-2C0A-11D8-B591-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bust support, was re: 12th c. bust support Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:45:49 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Great! I'm especially fond of the Lunaire microfiber tshirt bra, on herroom.com. Wired & ready for action from Title9, and I LOVE LOVE LOVE the strappy tops with built in bras from bravissimo. All of those sites have great customer service, too. .heather. On Dec 11, 2003, at 7:12 AM, Drea Leed wrote: > Heather, > > Thanks so much! I'm a DDD/F, and gave up finding nice bras long > ago...these sites are great! > > Drea > > > On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Heather Meadows wrote: > >> I'll say it a million times -- I love herroom.com, title9sports.com, >> and bravissimo.com. >> >> They all have great bras in DDD and above... >> >> >> On Dec 1, 2003, at 9:42 PM, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: >> >>> >>>> I started out post-adolescence as a 34A. Then, about 5 years ago, I >>>> lost a fair amount of weight and went down as a result to a 32A. >>>> >>>> I can find bras in ordinary stores in 32A; Victoria's Secret also >>>> carries them. (I'm wearing a VS model as I type this, in fact). >>>> It's >>>> just a bit harder to find them because stores stock fewer bras in >>>> small sizes.... >>> >>> But the A cup is still fairly small. The 28s and 30s are still >>> nonexistant (just like the G cup bras.)You can usually find As, Bs >>> and Cs nowadays (mostly at Nordstroms and Victoria Secret) but >>> finding the Ds and DDs is still *very* difficult. (Especially the >>> DDs. Forget anything larger.) And they are usually in the more ugly >>> (to me) styles (like the ones with really heavy, scratchy stretch >>> lace on the sides. Ugh.) If I'm lucky they have one in my size >>> (either because they didn't get more in than that or because they've >>> already sold it to someone else.) And finding them in other stores is >>> still pretty impossible. >>> >>> Frankly, both my 18th C and my several 16th C corsets are far more >>> comfortable. They just give one a very odd line in modern clothes. ;) >>> >>> Kat >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 13:54:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBIsB74032401 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:54:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIqe4S027545; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:52:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBIqZDO009871; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:52:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40102.mail.yahoo.com (web40102.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBBIqUDO009724 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:52:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031211185224.60049.qmail@web40102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.9.36] by web40102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:52:24 PST Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:52:24 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] was new topic now current and future projects X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Currently I am finishing hubby's tudor gear onto that horrid short sleeved coat! In the works are: netherstocks Gloves In the wings: more blackwork! I have learned to surface couch and I love it!!!! Mundane and boring gifts for the holidays: Puppet theater for my eldest daughter Fabric Portable chess set For my son Rag Dolly for the youngest daughter Hubby is getting a blackworked shirt, tudor doublet, jerkin, cannons, and whatever else I can get finished. ;-) Stitching busily away when I am not reading h-costume, Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 14:13:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBJDj74032663 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:13:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJCt4S029482; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:12:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJCrVW028438; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:12:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com ([12.178.72.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJCoVW028358 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:12:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hBBJIoO7022795; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:18:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:18:49 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] LoTR cloaks To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's just what I was going to ask! While we're on the subject, though, is there a fairly comprehensive source our there somewhere on how the costumes for LoTR were designed/sewn? And perhaps a source for the elven designs, etc? (which looks for all the world like a mish-mash of arts and crafts meets celtic knotwork to me...but I'm not complaining! I like it!) Thanks! Kate On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, fastusminimus wrote: > to experiment with some scarves woven using medieval weaves, plus one > that's based on this article in _Handwoven_ on the LoTR cloaks. > > > Which issue of Handwoven??? > Thanks > Carol > Yeah, like I *need* another loom project > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 14:21:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBJLv74000331 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:21:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJLF4S000522; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:21:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJLDVW006189; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:21:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJL9VW006049 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:21:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:21:04 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:20:48 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Re: was new topic now current and future projects X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Still trying to finish some christmas projects; haversacks out of leftover brocades for this weekend, penny rug style felt ornaments by the week before christmas. Also need to finish handsewing all the fake fur on hubby's new Santa suit. We are doing a 'folk' santa with a longer robe and until I started trimming it out it looked like a red velvet Jedi robe hanging on the door :). Taking a little time during the holidays to research and start outlining a class for February on lace beginings in the 16th c. Hopefully this means I will actually get some time to lace! Sewing room is in the basement which gets a bit cool this time of year (even with space heaters) so I don't have any large sewing projects planned until spring. Then I will start an Elizabethan ensemble for an old roommate. She has a perfect silhoutte for those highnecked-bodices, which I don't, so it will be fun working on a different body type. And as soon as he gets me the peach linen I will be starting to blackwork some sleeves for a tradeout with another friend. He is going to make me some Victorian garb, yipeee! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 14:30:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBJUq74000381 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:30:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJUE4S001417; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:30:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJUAVW014245; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:30:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJU3VW014115 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25097 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:56:09 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:56:09 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Althea Turner wrote: > Would you please tell me the group that is publishing this journal and > who I would talk to about doing book reviews? I posted about this a few months ago. This is a new academic journal called _Medieval Clothing & Textiles_, published by Boydell & Brewer. Editors are Gale Owen-Crocker and me, so I'm the one you talk to. As is typical for academic journals, we'll be assigning book reviews to scholars with appropriate expertise. If you're an academic in a field related to clothing/textiles, feel free to contact me off-list with your specialty areas. If you have a book in mind for review, let me know. However, we already have three reviews tentatively lined up, and that's probably more than we can include in our first volume. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 14:34:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBJYo74000402 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:34:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJXe4S001797; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:33:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJXZVW017323; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:33:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJXWVW017274 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:33:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-65.58.145.51.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([65.58.145.51] helo=4gxif) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AUWZ1-0006An-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:33:31 -0500 Message-ID: <029401c3c01d$bc76e940$33913a41@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031211.080159.1688.0.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:34:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just finished a pair of Harlequin and Columbine costumes for NY Revels, A good friend, who does their costumes, needed emergency last-minute replacements. Fortunately, this has turned the sewing back on. So my current projects are nothing historical- just trousers, sweaters, shirts, at least three suits, and a winter coat- in other words, a full wardrobe. Three polarfleece shirts are almost done already. And maybe, if I'm a really good girl, a new dress for Twelfth Night? -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 14:37:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBJba74000428 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:37:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJao4S002080; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:36:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJamVW020372; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:36:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJaZVW020193 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:36:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D746836EC1 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:36:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AUWbw-0000Nb-00 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:36:32 -0500 To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:36:32 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Subject: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a wee bit off topic, but I can't think who else will understand, so you guys get to hear me enthuse :) Our DNS is finally active, so I can now announce the website of our new 17th century group, the North Downs Fellowship, at http://northdowns.ca/ndf/ This is why I've been asking about 17th century costume lately. Incidentally, I'm interested in any/all links for 17th century costume and other such things. At the moment I'd like to know of any online vendors that sell 17th century shoes, hats, and other accessories or clothing items. I know about Sykes, but they don't have much clothing. Where else should I be looking? K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 14:43:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBJh674000453 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:43:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJgC4S002655; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:42:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJg9VW024917; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:42:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from einsteinium.btinternet.com (einsteinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJg3VW024802 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:42:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from [81.129.30.42] (helo=dan) by einsteinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1AUWhF-0000Yj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:42:01 +0000 Message-ID: <005701c3c01e$ff2d0c00$2a1e8151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] LoTR cloaks Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:43:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate wrote: > That's just what I was going to ask! While we're on the subject, though, > is there a fairly comprehensive source our there somewhere on how the > costumes for LoTR were designed/sewn? Try http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/ It's a very large site. There is also an accompanying Yahoo mailing list, which is very high traffic, and set to be higher with ROTK hitting cinemas worldwide. Great fun, but addictive:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 14:51:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBJpV74000492 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:51:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJnE4S003268; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:49:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJnCVW001314; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:49:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com ([12.178.72.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJn8VW001253 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:49:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hBBJt9ig025544; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:55:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:55:07 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] LoTR cloaks To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <005701c3c01e$ff2d0c00$2a1e8151@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote: > > Try > > http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/ > > It's a very large site. There is also an accompanying Yahoo mailing > list, which is very high traffic, and set to be higher with ROTK > hitting cinemas worldwide. Great fun, but addictive:-) > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Oh. My. Goodness. I can tell I'll have lots of fun with this site! Thanks! (And here, I"m supposed to be doing dissertation-like stuff...oh well..!) Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 14:56:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBJu574000522 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:56:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJs54S003638; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:54:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJs3VW005738; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBBJrxVW005684 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 97253 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Dec 2003 19:21:20 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.149164 secs); 11 Dec 2003 19:21:20 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.149164 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Dec 2003 19:21:20 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:21:25 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] LoTR cloaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031211142019.I59789-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate, Hi! If you can nab a copy of the extended DVD of fellowship of the Ring, they go into lots of detail about the sources for elvish design, why they picked the types of costumes they did, etc. The section on the costume shop was jaw-dropping--an unbelieeevable number of costumes! Drea On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Catherine Ussailis wrote: > That's just what I was going to ask! While we're on the subject, though, > is there a fairly comprehensive source our there somewhere on how the > costumes for LoTR were designed/sewn? And perhaps a source for the > elven designs, etc? (which looks for all the world like a mish-mash of > arts and crafts meets celtic knotwork to me...but I'm not complaining! I > like it!) > > Thanks! > Kate > > > > On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, fastusminimus wrote: > > > to experiment with some scarves woven using medieval weaves, plus one > > that's based on this article in _Handwoven_ on the LoTR cloaks. > > > > > > Which issue of Handwoven??? > > Thanks > > Carol > > Yeah, like I *need* another loom project > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 14:56:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBJuV74000527 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:56:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJsT4S003679; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:54:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJsOVW006075; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:54:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJsBVW005846 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:54:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be7a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.122]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C9BA32629C5 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:54:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001001c3c020$d6208dd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:56:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Not that i have anything for sale, but i do make costume orders for 17th century costumes. I made Nicole Kipars blue baroque dress with the silver lace. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:36 PM Subject: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) > This is a wee bit off topic, but I can't think who else will understand, > so you guys get to hear me enthuse :) > > Our DNS is finally active, so I can now announce the website of our new > 17th century group, the North Downs Fellowship, at > http://northdowns.ca/ndf/ > > This is why I've been asking about 17th century costume lately. > Incidentally, I'm interested in any/all links for 17th century costume > and other such things. At the moment I'd like to know of any online > vendors that sell 17th century shoes, hats, and other accessories or > clothing items. I know about Sykes, but they don't have much clothing. > Where else should I be looking? > > K. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 14:57:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBJvf74000538 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:57:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJtk4S003829; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:55:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJti7H007281; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:55:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBJtc7H007120 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:55:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from PallasAMK@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.131.27d64077 (15874) for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:55:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d22.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.163]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID71-3e023fd8cbb03bd; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:55:28 -0500 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:55:28 -0500 From: PallasAMK@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <44251E66.44ECFF58.02708BA2@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 63.251.31.10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: current and future projects X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since I'm off of work the week between Christmas and New Year's, I hope to get a jump on: 1. 19th c polonaise ballgown (have had luscious silk brocade fabric staring at me for 1 year) Future plans include: 2. Tackle for the third time my aughts ballgown--this time make the complicated bodice work. 3. '20s evening dress (have had fabric too long to remember when I originally got it) 4. '20s day dress (see above) 5. Carpet bag from swell carpet kipped at the Rose Bowl (ditto) 6. Non costume jacket of denim and carpet scraps (after carpet bag completed. See above) 7. Replace shattered silk lining on gorgeous vintage embrodered shawl purchased by indulgent spouse on honeymoon trip to Paris (embarassingly, five years ago!) Actually, should probably re-order this list to do last first...oh, the guilt, the guilt! (And the stupidity of not having this gorgeous shawl to wear!) Pallas _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 15:14:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBKEU74000588 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:14:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBKCH4S005464; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:12:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBKCD7H022587; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:12:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBBKBx7H022376 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 85558 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Dec 2003 20:04:31 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.421502 secs); 11 Dec 2003 20:04:31 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.421502 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Dec 2003 20:04:30 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:04:34 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] LoTR cloaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031211150415.K64393-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > > Try > > > > http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/ > > > > It's a very large site. There is also an accompanying Yahoo mailing > > list, which is very high traffic, and set to be higher with ROTK > > hitting cinemas worldwide. Great fun, but addictive:-) > > Drool! Bad Stevie. I'll never get any work done. :) Thanks, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 16:36:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBLaW74000919 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:36:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBLZX4S013360; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:35:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBLZR9g010702; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:35:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBLZK9g010517 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:35:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F531B623D for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:33:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 22340-06 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:33:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E542D1B7EEF for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:33:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <07b301c3c02e$a7ea3ac0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002a01c3bfe6$d71d22a0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:35:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:01 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths > I seem to recall Barbie had a redheaded friend named "Midge" - > mind you, that was 35 years ago.. she is probably a collectable too; by > now! > Betsy Midge is still available, her most recent incarnations is as a married pregnant woman. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 17:06:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBM6L74001027 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:06:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBM4w4S015868; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:04:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBM4swe006487; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:04:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBM3kwe005369 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:03:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-39-192.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.39.192]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBM3gH5027275 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:03:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031211135825.05ccca30@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:00:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >This is a wee bit off topic, but I can't think who else will understand, >so you guys get to hear me enthuse :) I don't understand how 17th century costuming is off topic for a pan-historical costume group ;) I mean, just because there aren't any of this century groups nearby for me to play with doesn't mean it's not historical. (I'm just lucky there's finally an 18th century group here in Northern California...) >Our DNS is finally active, so I can now announce the website of our new >17th century group, the North Downs Fellowship, at >http://northdowns.ca/ndf/ > >This is why I've been asking about 17th century costume lately. >Incidentally, I'm interested in any/all links for 17th century costume >and other such things. At the moment I'd like to know of any online >vendors that sell 17th century shoes, hats, and other accessories or >clothing items. I know about Sykes, but they don't have much clothing. >Where else should I be looking? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 17:14:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBMEB74001044 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:14:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBMDT4S016786; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:13:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBMDRwe014717; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:13:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBBMDNwe014593 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:13:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11662 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2003 22:13:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gateway) (216.93.210.124) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net with SMTP; 11 Dec 2003 22:13:14 -0000 From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: dirndl Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:13:33 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-TST: smtp1 SNWK X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, and I just happened to check my local Joann's and lo and behold, they had it and I promptly purchased it! Thanks to everyone's suggestions. ,%%%, --==% `%%%, |' )`%%, \_/\ @%%, __@@" %%%--"""-.%, /`__| \%% \\ \ / | /'%, \] | /----'. < `%, Joan Broneske || `>>> unicorn@surewest.net || ///` /( //( -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lynn Downward Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:01 AM To: h costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: dirndl On 12/11/03 8:07 AM, "Joan Broneske" wrote: > I did happen to locate the Burda patterns on line and found the dirndl > pattern. I tried looking for it the other day, and I found a site with > Burda patterns, but all I could find on that site were contemporary clothes. > Now I just have to either order it or find somewhere locally that sells > Burda patterns. > Joan, the two Joann Fabrics in my area sell Burda patterns. And at 50% off. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 17:52:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBMqM74001185 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:52:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBMpG4S020428; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:51:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBMpCtF020183; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:51:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBMp7tF020121 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:51:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp39.directcon.net [209.79.209.39] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hBBMtH600603 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:55:17 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031211144815.00f326f0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:48:15 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031211135825.05ccca30@mail.frys.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:00 PM 12/11/2003 -0800, you wrote: (I'm just lucky there's finally an 18th century group here in >Northern California...) (perk) THERE IS? Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 17:57:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBMvh74001204 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:57:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBMsQ4S020713; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:54:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBMsPtF022893; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:54:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from out011.verizon.net (out011pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBMsKtF022803 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:54:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from Fiona ([151.199.138.184]) by out011.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20031211225419.DVXP26708.out011.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:54:19 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:54:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031211135825.05ccca30@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out011.verizon.net from [151.199.138.184] at Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:54:19 -0600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 5:01 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) >This is a wee bit off topic, but I can't think who else will understand, >so you guys get to hear me enthuse :) I don't understand how 17th century costuming is off topic for a pan-historical costume group ;) I mean, just because there aren't any of this century groups nearby for me to play with doesn't mean it's not historical. (I'm just lucky there's finally an 18th century group here in Northern California...) Actually there is a 17th century group in Northern California. I believe they are in the Bay area in fact. They do however primarially a military impression artillery from the English Civil War. Do you know Dale Shin of St Michaels, he is envolved with them. You can find their webpage through the ECWSA webpage. Cheers, Ron _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 18:09:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBN9O74001296 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:09:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBN8i4S022052; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:08:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBN8XaD006210; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:08:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBN8MaD005927 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003121123081701300bjq5ee>; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:08:17 +0000 Message-ID: <3FD8F8DD.3020008@fenris.net> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:08:13 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: dirndl References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joan Broneske wrote: >I did happen to locate the Burda patterns on line and found the dirndl >pattern. I tried looking for it the other day, and I found a site with >Burda patterns, but all I could find on that site were contemporary clothes. >Now I just have to either order it or find somewhere locally that sells >Burda patterns. > > > What is the pattern number for the Burda dirndl? liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 18:18:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBNIZ74001317 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:18:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBNHu4S023307; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:17:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBNHraD014903; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:17:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBNHlaD014804 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:17:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DDA52F8CC for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:21:19 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031211144815.00f326f0@pop.directcon.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20031211144815.00f326f0@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <38AA4B37-2C30-11D8-B591-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:17:42 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO do tell! On Dec 11, 2003, at 2:48 PM, Margo Anderson wrote: > At 02:00 PM 12/11/2003 -0800, you wrote: > (I'm just lucky there's finally an 18th century group here in >> Northern California...) > > > (perk) THERE IS? > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > > www.margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 18:51:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBNpw74001453 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:51:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBNp24S026421; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBNp0aD013795; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBNoXaD013371 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:50:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-39-192.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.39.192]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBNnpbR015554 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:49:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031211154324.05d36b10@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:44:56 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20031211135825.05ccca30@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >This is a wee bit off topic, but I can't think who else will understand, > >so you guys get to hear me enthuse :) > >I don't understand how 17th century costuming is off topic for a >pan-historical costume group ;) I mean, just because there aren't any of >this century groups nearby for me to play with doesn't mean it's not >historical. (I'm just lucky there's finally an 18th century group here in >Northern California...) > > > Actually there is a 17th century group in Northern California. I believe >they are in the Bay area in fact. They do however primarially a military >impression artillery from the English Civil War. Do you know Dale Shin of >St Michaels, he is envolved with them. You can find their webpage through >the ECWSA webpage. Duh - Dale Shin the gunsmith. I had forgotten about them. Yes, you're right, there is 17th Century stuff going on in California - one thing in the entire state, as I recall, unless the Sealed Knot Society has an outpost here. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 18:52:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBBNq174001456 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:52:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBNoc4S026371; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:50:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBNoYaD013388; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:50:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBNoUaD013347 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:50:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-39-192.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.39.192]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBBNnpbN015554 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:49:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031211153600.05106610@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:43:01 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031211144815.00f326f0@pop.directcon.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20031211135825.05ccca30@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > (I'm just lucky there's finally an 18th century group here in > >Northern California...) > >(perk) THERE IS? Bay Privateers, a tiny group with a replica of the boat the mutineers put Captain Bligh into. We get to row it, and haven't captured a single ship in it yet... Here's the official description: This is a gathering place for Northern Californian 18th Century nautical re-enactors. All those interested in learning about or sharing their knowledge of traditional nautical skills are welcome here. The purpose of this group is to assist the members in the development of their nautical skills and historical impressions, so that we may become an asset to both the historic boating and living history communities of Northern California. And the website: http://groups.yahoo.com/i?i=5VxhhM7Ge_TPWIrRT93o8o-mk-8&e=Kayta%40FunStuft%2Ecom (but you have to do the Yahoo thing to read stuff on it) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 19:20:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC0KS74001599 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:20:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC0Jm4S029008; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:19:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC0Jk5q005095; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:19:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mprdmxin.myway.com (nn8.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC0Je5q004912 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:19:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 216003967; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:19:30 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) Received: from [206.45.180.142] by mprdmailfe2.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:19:30 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 4b14ac168921ccc45d076dd955494d0d From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Message-Id: <20031212001930.216003967@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:19:30 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sounds wonderful! My family does rapier re-enactment with the SCA. If we're in Ottawa, I'd love to visit. *shameless plug*Check out my site, I do 16th and 17th century clothes and toys for men and children. Cheers Wendywww.hecate.ca/emma/ _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 19:27:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC0Rf74001840 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:27:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC0Qw4S029393; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:26:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC0Qs5q009710; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:26:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-dav45.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.10.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC0Qo5q009579 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:26:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:26:45 -0800 Received: from 63.238.214.153 by bay7-dav45.bay7.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:26:45 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.238.214.153] X-Originating-Email: [robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com] X-Sender: robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com From: "Kelly Dorman" To: Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:26:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2003 00:26:45.0587 (UTC) FILETIME=[9FB02230:01C3C046] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] drawn bonnet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hBC0Rf74001840 Status: RO The interior of bonnets are generally not lined or at most have about a 3" wide band of organdy tacked in place right where your trimmings stop. This is basically disposable, as it will absorb hair oils and can be easily replaced when soiled. When making the bonnet using canes, the last cane is right at the back opening, which leaves a gathered ring of fabric hanging down. You then "play" with the excess fabric until it looks pleasingly gathered or pleated and secure it at the base of the back - doesn't matter if it's on the inside or outside as this will be covered with the curtain or bravolet. Or as happened on the first one I made, there wasn't enough fabric left to reach the bottom, so I gathered all the fabric to the centre and secured it which gave an interesting look. You may want to try attaching a gathered piece of fabric right sides together on the back top and sides and then flip it over (right sides out) and then "play" with the arrangement. I wish I could show pictures of mine - it would make it much easier to try to explain. You've made a great start and have chosen a very pretty colour. Do you have plans for your trimmings? If you have enough fabric, it's lovely to gather a piece over just a couple of canes and then tack that in place across the crown - it takes much less fabric than doing all the caning and is relatively low priced (and accurate) trimming. Hope this makes some sense and helps, it's very seldom that I can contribute any info to this group! Kelly _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 19:54:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC0sm74002102 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:54:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC0qZ4S001481; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:52:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC0qX5q027114; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:52:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC0qU5q027097 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:52:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5632F8CC for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:56:03 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <732E0AC6-2C3D-11D8-B591-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] drawn bonnet Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:52:24 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was not clear -- Her instructions imply that you are to take the leftover fabric and gather it into something that "puffs" at the back hole. I can't tell if this is inside or outside the hole. I've not seen any examples of these bonnets, and so it's really confusing trying to take her very unclear directions and make something that I don't know what it's supposed to look like out of them... *sigh*. And I've had several millinery classes, and I'm comfortable making hats generally. I just can't tell what it's supposed to be when it's done, so I feel like I have nothing to go by. I'm just going to plan on gathering it to the outside of the whole formed at the back of the bonnet. I went ahead and lined the back in more silk. I did not want the buckram showing every time I took it off, and I'm wearing a wig so I don't have to worry about oil. For trim, I was just going to keep it very simple and make a few flowers and add ribbons to tie it. .heather. (also -- what part would you be calling the "Crown" of the bonnet. Just curious. I've never made one, obviously, and I'm not sure what part would be considered the crown on it. ) Thank you so much for your help, Kelly! On Dec 11, 2003, at 4:26 PM, Kelly Dorman wrote: > The interior of bonnets are generally not lined or at most have about > a 3" wide band of organdy tacked in place right where your trimmings > stop. This is basically disposable, as it will absorb hair oils and > can be easily replaced when soiled. > When making the bonnet using canes, the last cane is right at the > back opening, which leaves a gathered ring of fabric hanging down. You > then "play" with the excess fabric until it looks pleasingly gathered > or pleated and secure it at the base of the back - doesn't matter if > it's on the inside or outside as this will be covered with the curtain > or bravolet. Or as happened on the first one I made, there wasn't > enough fabric left to reach the bottom, so I gathered all the fabric > to the centre and secured it which gave an interesting look. > You may want to try attaching a gathered piece of fabric right sides > together on the back top and sides and then flip it over (right sides > out) and then "play" with the arrangement. I wish I could show > pictures of mine - it would make it much easier to try to explain. > You've made a great start and have chosen a very pretty colour. Do > you have plans for your trimmings? If you have enough fabric, it's > lovely to gather a piece over just a couple of canes and then tack > that in place across the crown - it takes much less fabric than doing > all the caning and is relatively low priced (and accurate) trimming. > Hope this makes some sense and helps, it's very seldom that I can > contribute any info to this group! > Kelly > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 21:37:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC2bS74002829 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:37:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC2ag4S007959; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:36:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC2abUg026783; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:36:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (sea2-f45.sea2.hotmail.com [207.68.165.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC2aXUg026700 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:36:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:36:28 -0800 Received: from 207.69.82.146 by sea2fd.sea2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 02:36:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.69.82.146] X-Originating-Email: [sharmah64@hotmail.com] X-Sender: sharmah64@hotmail.com From: "Sharmah Wardlaw-Otwell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:36:28 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2003 02:36:28.0551 (UTC) FILETIME=[BEB23170:01C3C058] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I actually went to FAO Schwarz to find the India Barbie at first,they didn't have it and I "accidentally" found it in a Wal-Mart way out in the suburbs-like 30 miles away from my home and since it was only like $19,I got two! Sharmah _________________________________________________________________ Our best dial-up offer is back. Get MSN Dial-up Internet Service for 6 months @ $9.95/month now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 21:47:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC2ld74002891 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:47:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC2l04S008796; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC2kxUg002271; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:46:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC2kuUg002210 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:46:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m12.in-tch.com [216.166.191.12]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBC2PJS19023 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:25:19 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FD92CBF.D486BA54@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:49:35 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] LoTR cloaks References: <200312111405.hBBE4uub011104@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO November/December 2003. The cloak is really cool--in design, it's a fairly simple half-circle cloak with a hood. What's neat is what the artist did for the weave. For the warp, she used 2 different thicknesses of 2-ply wool in 10 random "forest" colors. The weft is a wool crepe in a "pine needle" colorway. The weaving pattern is a shadow-weave design that looks like leaves. She includes drafts for either a 4-shaft pattern or an 8-shaft pattern. The author/artist does mention the alleyscratch website as a good source. As a bonus for all of you LoTR fans, _Handwoven_'s planning a "gallery" of Fellowship cloaks, and is inviting folks to send in pictures of theirs (for a sort of show-and-tell). I'd love to make a cloak like this, but I don't have a loom wide enough. I'm also not that experienced a weaver. Yet! --sue fastusminimus wrote: > > to experiment with some scarves woven using medieval weaves, plus one > that's based on this article in _Handwoven_ on the LoTR cloaks. > > Which issue of Handwoven??? > Thanks > Carol > Yeah, like I *need* another loom project > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 22:07:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC37i74003153 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:07:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC3744S010005; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:07:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC370iZ013004; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC36uia012945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:06:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBC37cUZ017914 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:07:38 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBC37bRk017912 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:07:37 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:07:36 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312112207.36890.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 11 December 2003 09:12 am, Sue Clemenger wrote: > While I bet a whole lot of us are caught up in the holidays and "life" > requirements (I know I am!), Ditto, and in spades, but that's definitely OT. :-) > I betcha we've also got projects planned > for the new year. Arggh. I hate this question. (We all answered this one last year, didn't we?) Reading everybody's list of projects always reminds me of the cool stuff I've put off, and also of how little I like the actual sewing required to make costumes (the planning and fabric selection are the most fun for me). > So...what are we all going to be doing? Okay, I'll bite. Actually, some of these may get done, because I have hard deadlines for some of them. :-) * A 10th c. (eastern) Swedish woman's outfit in the correct natural materials per the Historiska Museet site's proposed reconstruction (still haven't decided how much of this I'll actually handsew, though). * A bliaut and underdress (this one's been hanging fire for about 3 years now, but I expect to really get to it this time because I want to wear it for a live action roleplaying game at the end of Feb. 2004, and I may never have a better reason to actually get to it). * A bustle dress circa the mid-1870s, with different bodices and different overskirts so I will have a day dress and a ball dress (I hope to get the day dress parts done by May 2004, as this is for a live action roleplaying game campaign that begins in May). * A hooded wizard robe for my husband from a Simplicity pattern based on the Lord of the Rings (for the same Feb. 2004 game mentioned above so I'd better finish it on time!). :-) * A wool apron-dress based on the simple "tube" concept, just so I can say I've done it; (I've got some nice dark green wool for this). * A wool apron-dress based on the wrap-around concept, ditto; (Using some nice wool flannel for this. The color is too pale a blue as purchased, but a prior experiment with a smaller piece of the same convinced me I can use RIT to turn it into a nice medium sky blue shade without felting it significantly, so that's what I plan to do). * A plain linen shift with a keyhole neckline, for wear with early eastern Viking costumes. * A simple panova, or early Russian overskirt, out of the wool flannel that was the subject of the RIT experiment referred to above. And what have I actually managed to make this year? (In case anybody cares) --White silk salwar, based on an historic pattern from the "Renaissance Tailor" site. --A drawstring skirt, to wear with a sari when I get one (the fabric comes with mirrors sewn on in a plausible imitation of Indian embroidery technique, which is why couldn't pass it up. --A matching choli, based on another web site pattern (which has been baffling me for a couple of years, but I think I've managed to find a way to make it fit well enough to wear it, and I expect to finish it by year's end). I also have a pattern, fabric, and materials for an 1840's ball gown, which I meant to make for a live action game in 2002 and never finished, but the fabric and lace I bought are so beautiful I still mean to make it someday, especially as I already have underpinnings I can use with it.... -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 11 22:56:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC3uv74003539 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:56:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC3uQ4S013156; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:56:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC3uOrg010491; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:56:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBC3uJrg010413 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:56:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 22558 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2003 03:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gateway) (216.93.210.124) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net with SMTP; 12 Dec 2003 03:56:10 -0000 From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: dirndl Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:56:12 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <3FD8F8DD.3020008@fenris.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-TST: smtp1 SNWK X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The number is 8448 ,%%%, --==% `%%%, |' )`%%, \_/\ @%%, __@@" %%%--"""-.%, /`__| \%% \\ \ / | /'%, \] | /----'. < `%, Joan Broneske || `>>> unicorn@surewest.net || ///` /( //( -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Elizabeth Young Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 3:08 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: dirndl Joan Broneske wrote: >I did happen to locate the Burda patterns on line and found the dirndl >pattern. I tried looking for it the other day, and I found a site with >Burda patterns, but all I could find on that site were contemporary clothes. >Now I just have to either order it or find somewhere locally that sells >Burda patterns. > > > What is the pattern number for the Burda dirndl? liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 00:11:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC5BW74004014 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:11:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC5An4S016783; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:10:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC5AiT3017046; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:10:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC5AcT3016992 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:10:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-007neomahp054.dialsprint.net ([63.178.246.38] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AUfZV-00051o-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:10:37 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20031211225236.02dfb6e8@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:02:36 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200312111611.hBBGBh2T008443@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 837 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Stuff for Costume Con 22 in Atlanta, early April: Fantasy/Science Fiction masquerade entry Fashion Show entry (don't know what yet, the design books aren't out yet) Finish several hall costumes already in progress Underpinnings (chemise, farthingale(maybe), bum roll) plus sleeves and forepart for purchased Elizabethan pieces, also hemming the skirt and trimming everything. Hubby to do the same (shirt, slops) for his. Decorate the tall hats we have to match (but removable, so they can be used again for another outfit). Then start on the masquerade entry for the World Science Fiction Convention in Boston over Labor Day. Already have most of the fabric for that one - doing another set of artwork re-creations. Should keep us out of trouble for two-thirds of the year. Sandy >From: Sue Clemenger > >While I bet a whole lot of us are caught up in the holidays and "life" >requirements (I know I am!), I betcha we've also got projects planned >for the new year. >So...what are we all going to be doing? "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 00:42:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC5go74004294 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:42:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC5gI4S018549; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:42:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC5gET3003247; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:42:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC5gAT3003193 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:42:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a24.in-tch.com [66.62.107.4]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBC5KXS09607 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:20:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FD955D2.396AE4E0@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:44:50 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic References: <7d.42c0de2b.2d09fbcb@aol.com> <200312112240.49262.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You could probably also ask her directly. I know she's on SCA-Weaving (she just kindly answered a question of mine), and, IIRC, her email addy is featured in a number of places on her web documents. --sue Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > 3. Get some tablets and tablet weave yourself a pair, if you can find the > time and like tablet weaving. Carolyn Priest-Dorman did a really neat pair > for a friend in silk, which bears an inscription based on a quote from the > Coverdale Bible (1535), which would be period for your costume. She gives no > directions, but you may find the picture inspiring at least: > > http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/garters.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 00:44:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC5i374004303 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:44:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC3eJ4S011873; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:40:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC3eGiZ000957; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:40:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC3e9ia000899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:40:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBC3eoUZ018075 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:40:50 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBC3en8o018071 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:40:49 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:40:49 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <7d.42c0de2b.2d09fbcb@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <7d.42c0de2b.2d09fbcb@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312112240.49262.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 11 December 2003 11:56 am, IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > I'll bite as well...perhaps then I'll get things done, yes? (Hopefully?) Doesn't always work for me, but your mileage may vary. :-) [snip] > - Linen (woven) stockings for the gown. Still thinking up what to use for > garters, probably just ties since they certainly weren't at all like modern > garters True. I have three options for you to consider for garters, though: 1. Buy wool twill tape and cut lengths to suitable size. Wooded Hamlet Designs, www.woodedhamlet.com sells the stuff. Their 100% worsted twill tape comes in a variety of colors and widths; the widest, 7/8ths of an inch, costs only $2.00 per yard, which is probably enough for a pair of garters (but if not, you can easily buy another yard). :-) 2. Buy a pair of garters. I know offhand of two companies on the web that sell them: Historic Enterprises: http://www.historicenterprises.com/ Historic Enterprises' model costs $8.00 for plain strips of what looks like woven twill tape in red or black. If you pay $20.00, you can get them with replica 15c buckles, but you said you want this for an Elizabethan so 15c buckles wouldn't be appropriate. They're 7/8th of an inch wide. Revival Clothing: http://www.revivalclothing.com/ Revival Clothing sells tie garters of a "woven design that has the look and depth of embroidery". I don't know what that means. They only say theirs are 27 inches long, and don't give the width, but from the picture showing one on a leg I'd bet they're about the same width as the others. They charge $10.95 for a pair. 3. Get some tablets and tablet weave yourself a pair, if you can find the time and like tablet weaving. Carolyn Priest-Dorman did a really neat pair for a friend in silk, which bears an inscription based on a quote from the Coverdale Bible (1535), which would be period for your costume. She gives no directions, but you may find the picture inspiring at least: http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/garters.html If it were me, I'd buy a yard of wool twill tape from Wooded Hamlet and use that. No effort, cheap, and a period material to boot. But as I said above, everyone's mileage varies.... Good luck with your projects! -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 01:01:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC61t74004416 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:01:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC61H4S019517; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:01:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC61EPD012171; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:01:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC61APD012069 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:01:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.45.11d98c2 (4468) for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:00:58 -0500 (EST) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <45.11d98c2.2d0ab39a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:00:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try Tucakahoe Traders for accessories. They carry meticulously researched and crafted Ceramics and glassware. http://www.tuckahoetradingco.com/about.html Also The Practical Goose has terrific stuff of all sorts. I don't know if they have a web site, but Mike Tartaglio's wife, Leigh, runs it and he is on this list. Sykes will carry shoes when they can get them. The best source is Sarah Juniper in England, but they're not cheap. Hope that helps. Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 01:09:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC69N74004467 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:09:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC68t4S019943; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:08:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC68rPD015916; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:08:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC68oPD015860 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:08:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a24.in-tch.com [66.62.107.4]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBC5lCS20837 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:47:13 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FD95C11.B372A46@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:11:29 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic References: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> <200312112207.36890.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, I didn't think of it from that angle! So...what projects have folks actually *finished* this past year? I finished the second sleeve for my blackwork shift, and made two eastern-viking outfits (shift, gown, and apron-gown) for a friend who was stepping down as baroness (sca reference). Oh, and loads of gift-baskets for some royalty (another sca reference, sorry) And I've finished hand-spinning a number of skeins of yarn for holiday gifts for a couple of friends (I'll be dyeing one half pale yellow for one friend, and logwood-ish purple on the other half for the other friend). But that's about it! --sue, with lots of "eternally unfinished sh... uh, stuff" Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > And what have I actually managed to make this year? (In case anybody cares) > > --White silk salwar, based on an historic pattern from the "Renaissance > Tailor" site. > > --A drawstring skirt, to wear with a sari when I get one (the fabric comes > with mirrors sewn on in a plausible imitation of Indian embroidery technique, > which is why couldn't pass it up. > > --A matching choli, based on another web site pattern (which has been baffling > me for a couple of years, but I think I've managed to find a way to make it > fit well enough to wear it, and I expect to finish it by year's end). > > I also have a pattern, fabric, and materials for an 1840's ball gown, which I > meant to make for a live action game in 2002 and never finished, but the > fabric and lace I bought are so beautiful I still mean to make it someday, > especially as I already have underpinnings I can use with it.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 01:37:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC6bW74004610 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:37:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC6Y24S020891; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC6XkPD027268; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:33:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC6XOPE027129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:33:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBC6Y7UZ018719 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:34:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBC6Y618018717 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:34:06 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:34:06 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <7d.42c0de2b.2d09fbcb@aol.com> <200312112240.49262.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FD955D2.396AE4E0@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3FD955D2.396AE4E0@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312120134.06424.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 12 December 2003 12:44 am, Sue Clemenger wrote: > You could probably also ask her directly. I know she's on SCA-Weaving > (she just kindly answered a question of mine), and, IIRC, her email addy > is featured in a number of places on her web documents. > Good point. Thanks. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 03:38:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC8c574004351 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 03:38:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8aV4S026098; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:36:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8aRj2022895; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:36:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8aOj2022867 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:36:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPR0082WX8M72@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:36:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:03:07 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: dirndl In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031212000031.020c1118@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:07 AM 12/11/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I have the Folkwear dirndl pattern, and I think I may make it up just to see >how it looks. The only thing about it that strikes me kind of funny is the >fact that there is kind of a weird gusset in the breast area of the lower >cut bodice and I'm wondering if that is really a necessary piece, or could >it be left out? Is it for shaping? Oh, I liked that shaping that the gusset gave me. The Folkwear dirndle pattern was the first bodice I ever made for faire, and I loved it. The gusset gave me just the right amount of shaping for my C cup breasts, and it didn't give that shelf or TOAP look everyone hates, including me. I gotta find my old pattern and make another one, just because it was so comfy. I was never sure if the gusset was period, which I doubt, but it was comfy and nice looking and that is so worth it for me. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 03:38:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC8cr74004464 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 03:38:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8cJ4S026145; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:38:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8cIj2023601; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:38:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8aOj4022867 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:36:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPR0082WX8M72@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:36:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:07:20 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic In-reply-to: <15b.298cdc92.2d09f35b@aol.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031212000459.020c5098@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:20 AM 12/11/2003 -0500, you wrote: >He has an eye on Boromir's outfit in the first >part of the Fellowship, but he's short (not even 5'5) and chubby, so I will >never make him something as long as Boromir's vest. Hmmm... why not? long vests make chubby people look longer and a little leaner. And the embroidery on the short sleeves is very nice. But then I am making a fantasy costume for me with that same outfit for inspiration, and I am a little taller and definitely chubby. But then the character for the costume is a troll knight, so ... even as a female I think that would work... ah, I am rambling this late at night. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 03:47:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC8l074009199 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 03:47:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8kJ4S026403; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:46:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8kHj2026838; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:46:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8kDj2026810 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPR00H6XXP0YN@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:46:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:37:40 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20031211153600.05106610@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031212003554.00b1d0d0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3.0.6.32.20031211144815.00f326f0@pop.directcon.net> <4.3.1.2.20031211135825.05ccca30@mail.frys.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:43 PM 12/11/2003 -0800, you wrote: >And the website: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/i?i=5VxhhM7Ge_TPWIrRT93o8o-mk-8&e=Kayta%40FunStuft%2Ecom > >(but you have to do the Yahoo thing to read stuff on it) > > CarolynKayta Barrows Hiya CarolynKayta, Is there another web link you could send for more info? The time limit on the invite died, and I have a friend who is into privateering stuff who lives in the Bay, and I wanted to send him the info in case he was interested. I don't know when he would view the link, because he is in school with finals right now. Thanks! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 03:47:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC8lo74009663 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 03:47:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8lG4S026464; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:47:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8lGj2027193; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:47:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8kDj4026810 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPR00H6XXP0YN@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:46:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:39:17 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20031210214829.0592d540@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031212003748.020d1250@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200312102329.10762.cathy@thyrsus.com> <20031210223446.76926.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> <20031210223446.76926.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks all for the info on red headed barbie dolls, and costuming bears. I think I saw pregnant Midge at Toys R Us, but pregnant is not going to be useful for a corseted style I was hoping for. And the bears reminded me of a friend who would just love a costumed bear. Thanks all again! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 03:48:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC8lx74009756 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 03:47:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8lR4S026488; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:47:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8lQj2027291; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:47:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8kFj2026819 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:46:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPR00H6XXP0YN@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:46:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:44:35 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th c. interlaced embroidery patterns In-reply-to: <16971355.1071101100203.JavaMail.root@wamui08.slb.atl.earth link.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031212003939.020d7bd8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:05 PM 12/10/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Yup, it's all over French and Italian portraits too, once you start >looking. For example, look for the Jean Clouet portrait of Francis I at: >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/c/clouet/jean/francois.jpg > >The white strips on his sleeves and chest clearly have couched interlaced >cord trimming. > >I have a very simple pattern of interlacing in black on my burgundy Court >gown, and every so often someone will come up and compliment me on the >"Celtic interlace" trim. I just smile sweetly and say "Thank you!" > Hi Chris, yeah, I have a simple interlaced pattern on my skirts that I took from an English pattern, and people ask about the Celtic knot all the time. I just didn't expect it in German patterns, and so very recognizably "Celtic" in styling! My husband loves the idea of wearing the interlaced pattern for his nobles, and I have gold and silver cording to do them in. Just got to find the time to work on it. And thanks for the link to Francois. I had only found a small image of him before, so getting to see the image in big scale is very nice. The plan for my husband's outfit is in some ways similar to this style, so it just gave me even more ideas to juggle in my mind before committing to a final draft. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 03:49:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBC8nY74010431 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 03:49:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8n04S026541; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8n0j2027893; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt7.ihug.co.nz (grunt7.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBC8muj2027867 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:48:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from p44-max20.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.161.108] by grunt7.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AUiyi-0005sI-00; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:48:53 +1300 Message-ID: <00c001c3c08c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:48:24 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > While I bet a whole lot of us are caught up in the holidays and "life" > requirements (I know I am!), I betcha we've also got projects planned > for the new year. > So...what are we all going to be doing? Ehehehe.. what a silly question to ask a fanatical band as the h-costers;) Floods of email jammed my mail box today;) Now I know who to blame... anyway, it's all fun to read what others are doing:) First job is to cut the lining and sew my yellow gown from the early 16thC found all over the place, but mostly the Lowlands and in parts of "Germany" and further north. http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/yellowflemish.htm The fabric body is cut and I had a horrible experience witht he lining... but I have two new queen size pure cotton sheets and they will be wonderful as the lining:) I hope there is enough for the sleeves;) But if not then I get to be creative with finding a suitable lining. Then I am looking at a pink cotton velvet dress based on an Anne of Denmark portrait and a pink sateen dress based on on a couple of dresses worn in Nurnberg over a few decades.. or Jost Amman made prints of women from 20 years before, which is quite feasible. Then a black velvet gown like the one Elizabeth de Valois wore (and several other portraits of Spanish court ladies in terms of very severe black with minimal trim.. possibly they were all in mourning;) ) And come what may for others:) But those are the definites... Oh yes, and a turquoise and pumpkin orange kampfrau inspired dress;) It'll be an evil dress for sure but fun;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 08:14:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCDEn74010433 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:14:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCDE94S006860; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:14:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCDE5wg015476; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBCDE2wg015413 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:14:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031212131357.39127.qmail@web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.157.217.73] by web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:13:57 GMT Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:13:57 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: H-costume list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: current and future projects X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Having just completed my first set of exmas last week, and rebuilt my computer (twice!) I am looking forward to a christmas of sewing and embroidering. On the plans are: 1. Finish off embroidered replica of the man shirt 1580 (Museum of Costume, Bath). 2. Finish a chocolate brown doublet for myself (1575-1585). 3. Buy fabric, dye and sew a russet cartridge pleated shirt to go with the doublet. 4. Plan & start embroidery to go on collar and skirts of the doublet, silver and silk embroidery on a black silk satin ground. 5. Plan and start embroidery for a guard round the skirt. 6. Remortgage the house so I can afford an Elizabethan wig! 7. Draw up sketched for embroidery on a pair of gloves for the Globe. 8. Blackwork embroidered sleeves, on silk twill. 9. Collapse in a heap! Rachel ===== Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk ________________________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 08:17:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCDHp74010444 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:17:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCDHI4S007051; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:17:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCDHHwg016854; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:17:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBCDHEwg016788 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:17:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031212131709.49767.qmail@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.157.217.73] by web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:17:09 GMT Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:17:09 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: H-costume list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As I have fairly short hair and am wanting to go a little higher up the Elizabethan social scale this year I am going to be in need of a wig. Now I would like this to be as accurate as possible. Having just got a quote from Derek Easton, who made Nicoles I think, for a real hair wig of £4000-5000, I need to identify something a little cheaper. Does anyone have any suggestions or has done any research on this before I hit the library? Was horsehair used in the sixteenth century for wigs? Thanks for any help, Rachel ===== Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk ________________________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 08:19:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCDJh74010456 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:19:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCDJ94S007142; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:19:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCDJ8wg017782; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:19:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCDJ5wg017752 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:19:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE65D53008C; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:11:01 -0500 Message-ID: <003701c3c0b3$27a660c0$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com><200312112207.36890.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FD95C11.B372A46@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:23:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmm... Black lace evening gown, embellished with beaded and sequin trim, circa 1898, based on a gown (Not my size) from my collection. Blue chintz English gown, 18th C Various Curacaos 18th C\Gents 18th C suit of black silk and velvet French gown, 1750's in indian fabric Ladies hunt coat, 18th C Gent's hunt coat, 18thC Kings costumes for "Amahl" Two gent's 19th C frock coats, gigunda size 1950's bridal gown restoration Dressed Q Elizabeth doll in her "first" costume; porcelain doll made in 2001 And Misc. assessories for most of the above Guess I can see why I felt so driven this past year. I have also been trying to cut my business down by reducing inventory via donation to the local college and auction house. Next year I want to finish and costume my collection of various dolls in period costume, that I have been collecting for the past 30 years! Kathleen Dressed Q Eleanor in her costume (recycled flea market doll) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 1:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic > Hey, I didn't think of it from that angle! So...what projects have folks > actually *finished* this past year? I finished the second sleeve for my > blackwork shift, and made two eastern-viking outfits (shift, gown, and > apron-gown) for a friend who was stepping down as baroness (sca > reference). Oh, and loads of gift-baskets for some royalty (another sca > reference, sorry) And I've finished hand-spinning a number of skeins of > yarn for holiday gifts for a couple of friends (I'll be dyeing one half > pale yellow for one friend, and logwood-ish purple on the other half for > the other friend). But that's about it! > --sue, with lots of "eternally unfinished sh... uh, stuff" > > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > > > > And what have I actually managed to make this year? (In case anybody cares) > > > > --White silk salwar, based on an historic pattern from the "Renaissance > > Tailor" site. > > > > --A drawstring skirt, to wear with a sari when I get one (the fabric comes > > with mirrors sewn on in a plausible imitation of Indian embroidery technique, > > which is why couldn't pass it up. > > > > --A matching choli, based on another web site pattern (which has been baffling > > me for a couple of years, but I think I've managed to find a way to make it > > fit well enough to wear it, and I expect to finish it by year's end). > > > > I also have a pattern, fabric, and materials for an 1840's ball gown, which I > > meant to make for a live action game in 2002 and never finished, but the > > fabric and lace I bought are so beautiful I still mean to make it someday, > > especially as I already have underpinnings I can use with it.... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 09:01:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCE1I74010649 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:01:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCE0i4S010285; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:00:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCE0fqp010627; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:00:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40111.mail.yahoo.com (web40111.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBCE0cqp010558 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:00:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031212140028.94533.qmail@web40111.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.22.226] by web40111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:00:28 PST Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:00:28 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] 17th century costume group- a funny :-) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I read your web address and thought you were in California. Baroque is my husbands favorite time period (unfortunately the other reinactment group we play with stops @1600) We hope to be transferred to san diego shortly and I thought whoopee! After some reading I realized the ca was for canada,lol. who would have thought? ;-) Have a fantastic friday! Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 09:08:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCE8I74010680 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:08:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCE7G4S010636; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:07:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCE7Cqp014028; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:07:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBCE7Aqp013967 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:07:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VChll2DgkqLYorXjKDiA1bXX/PEfavb/TpQ==">; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:07:01 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JG729DU6; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:07:01 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:05:45 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs Message-ID: <20031212.080546.-638351.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,5-6,8-15,20-21 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:17:09 +0000 (GMT) =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= writes: > As I have fairly short hair and am wanting to go a little higher up > the Elizabethan social scale this year I am going to be in need of a wig. How short is short? I have found that a jeweled/embroidered caul and a tall hat hide a multitude of non-period hair sins. > Now I would like this to be as accurate as possible. Having just > got a quote from Derek Easton, > who made Nicoles I think, for a real hair wig of £4000-5000, I need > to identify something a little cheaper. Hang on while I pick my teeth up off the ground......okay, they're back. Good heavens, you can get human hair wigs for much less than that in the States! Then take it to a hair dresser who works with wigs and have them style it to suit you. Total cost should only be a couple hundred dollars American. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 09:17:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCEHL74010752 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:17:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCEGc4S011153; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:16:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCEGZqp018959; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:16:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCEGWqp018920 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:16:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-215-175-81.aep.bellsouth.net [68.215.175.81] (may be forged)) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBCEGV1r029489 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:16:31 -0500 Message-ID: <007801c3c0ba$89be3560$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:16:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO WOW! After it was mentioned on this page, I searched the internet for it to see what it looked like and it was being sold for $230. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharmah Wardlaw-Otwell" To: Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths > Hi, > > I actually went to FAO Schwarz to find the India Barbie at first,they didn't > have it and I "accidentally" found it in a Wal-Mart way out in the > suburbs-like 30 miles away from my home and since it was only like $19,I got > two! > > > Sharmah > > _________________________________________________________________ > Our best dial-up offer is back. Get MSN Dial-up Internet Service for 6 > months @ $9.95/month now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 09:22:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCEML74010771 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:22:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCELk4S011532; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:21:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCELjqp021797; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:21:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBCELfqp021663 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:21:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20031212142135.40325.qmail@web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.157.217.73] by web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:21:35 GMT Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:21:35 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031212.080546.-638351.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > How short is short? I have found that a jeweled/embroidered caul and a > tall hat hide a multitude of non-period hair sins. Well it is just below my ears and curly, which makes it practically impossible to keep it in one place for any length of time, except when I wear a coif which covers everything. The other problem with your suggestion is that as my group is seriously dedicated to authenticity a jewelled caul would be equally expensive! > Hang on while I pick my teeth up off the ground......okay, they're back. > Good heavens, you can get human hair wigs for much less than that in the > States! Then take it to a hair dresser who works with wigs and have them > style it to suit you. Total cost should only be a couple hundred dollars > American. This would be fitted to my head and styled appropriately for the period. Which is what I really need. However I am willing to entertain any suggestions. Do you have any details of a company I could look at? Thanks Rachel ===== Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk ________________________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 09:48:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCEm374010926 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:48:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCElG4S013013; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:47:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCElEqp006165; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:47:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBCElBqp006100 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:47:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VChll2DgkqLYoTGOC+JgnCz4GU/CwHAHtAQ==">; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:46:34 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JG75HTDY; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:46:34 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:45:35 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs Message-ID: <20031212.084535.-638351.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-10,12-20,27-28,40-42 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:21:35 +0000 (GMT) =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= writes: > Well it is just below my ears and curly, which makes it practically > impossible to keep it in one > place for any length of time, except when I wear a coif which covers > everything. The other > problem with your suggestion is that as my group is seriously > dedicated to authenticity a jewelled > caul would be equally expensive! Well, then you could go with a very elegant black worked caul with paillettes (period spangles), it doesn't have to be jewel jeweled. > This would be fitted to my head and styled appropriately for the > period. Which is what I really > need. However I am willing to entertain any suggestions. Do you > have any details of a company I could look at? I'm not completely familiar with resources in England, but, going by what I know of in this country, you can get a human hair wig that comes just below your shoulders for about 200USD. Then go to any good hairdresser with a picture of what you want the wig to look like at the end, discuss the methods, and let the hairdresser go to it. That might add another 100USD depending on what they would charge for the time. Is your head an odd size or shape that you'd need a wig made especially to fit? They also used 'artificial' hair to augment their own when they didn't have enough for a particular style, so you could find a human hair 'fall' that matches yours pretty well, and have that done up in a period style for behind (although as far as I know the hair was done up in a braid or bun sort of thing, so not too complicated). One style that Queen Bess seems to like was done with masses of curls around the face (unknown back) so you could get a good curling iron and some hair pins and practice curling the front of your hair up while having a fake braid/bun on the back to give the illusion of longer hair. Of course you will be putting some sort of head covering on it anyway as no respectible woman went out without some sort of hat, so consider the hat style when you are designing the hair style. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 10:10:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCFA874011084 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:10:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCF9Q4S014702; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:09:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCF9NRF019850; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:09:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCF9HRF019730 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:09:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a256.in-tch.com [66.62.107.56]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBCEleS21426 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:47:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FD9DABD.77954A37@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:11:57 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th c. interlaced embroidery patterns References: <26513460-2C0E-11D8-8E70-000393D30BFA@providenceday.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, but if it was perceived as originating there, the appellation would be appropriate--like Egyptian Cotton, or Canada Geese, or Russian Thistle. I love monochrome embroidery and its cousins where ever it shows up, though! --maire, who started making costumes so she'd have somewhere to *put* the embroidery! Grace Morris wrote: > > Curiously, where you DON'T see _as much_ is in Spain...so much for > "Spanish Work".... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 10:34:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCFY2pE011511 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:34:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCFXK4S016690; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:33:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCFXGRF006135; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:33:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCFXCRF006070 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:33:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1677A369BE for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:33:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AUpHx-0002BG-00 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:33:09 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT (17th century) In-Reply-To: <20031212001930.216003967@mprdmxin.myway.com> References: <20031212001930.216003967@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:33:09 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > Sounds wonderful! My family does rapier re-enactment with the SCA. If we're in Ottawa, I'd love to visit. *shameless plug*Check out my site, I do 16th and 17th century clothes and toys for men and children. Cheers Wendywww.hecate.ca/emma/ Yes, I also fence in the SCA :) I've attached my SCA sigfile so you can see my Elizabethan website. Your website is lovely, I really like the casque on the mens costume page. K. -- Goodwife Katherine Rowberd (mka Kirrily "Skud" Robert) katherine@elizabethangeek.com http://elizabethangeek.com/ Caldrithig, Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere "The rose is red, the leaves are grene, God save Elizabeth our Queene" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 10:55:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCFtVpE011651 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:55:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCFso4S018496; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:54:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCFslRF022538; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:54:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav39.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCFsiRF022432 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:54:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:54:39 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav39.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:54:38 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031212000459.020c5098@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:54:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2003 15:54:39.0108 (UTC) FILETIME=[3FB14440:01C3C0C8] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" > At 11:20 AM 12/11/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >He has an eye on Boromir's outfit in the first > >part of the Fellowship, but he's short (not even 5'5) and chubby, so I will > >never make him something as long as Boromir's vest. > > > Hmmm... why not? long vests make chubby people look longer and a little > leaner. Maybe, but it makes short people look even shorter. We'll try different things, though. I'm just afraid if I make it too long it'll look like he has no legs. > And the embroidery on the short sleeves is very nice. I'd probably use a saree, if we decided to do that. > But then I am > making a fantasy costume for me with that same outfit for inspiration, and > I am a little taller and definitely chubby. But then the character for the > costume is a troll knight, so ... A... troll knight? Wow, that definitely goes same way as the sophisticated barbarian my friend wants :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 11:00:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCG0XpE011674 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:00:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCFxh4S018905; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:59:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCFxg3G026406; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:59:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCFxe3G026315 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:59:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:59:35 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:59:34 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c001c3c08c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> Subject: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:59:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2003 15:59:35.0142 (UTC) FILETIME=[F0247860:01C3C0C8] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > Then a black velvet gown like the one Elizabeth de Valois wore (and several > other portraits of Spanish court ladies in terms of very severe black with > minimal trim.. possibly they were all in mourning;) ) I think black was just very, very popular. I've found references in literature to black worn for mourning, but I don't think we can say that they were mourning *because* they wore black. In fact, if you look at paintings from Italy and Spain at that time, all they seem to wear a LOT of black, then SOME colours in the range red-pink, some yellow, and not much else, even if they do exist in other colours. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 11:04:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCG4XpE011711 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:04:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCG3m4S019367; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:03:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCG3k3G029724; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:03:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCG3f3G029657 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:03:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A6DD505C4; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:03:41 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:03:41 -0600 Message-ID: <000b01c3c0c9$834a4cf0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <20031212142135.40325.qmail@web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Pearls are(were?) also very "in" for decorating cauls, hats doublets etc, and freshwater "rice" or "potato" shaped pearls can be had for anywhere from 2-20$ per 16" string. We were just discussing this on my Jewelry group. One vendor had an offer of 100 strings for 100$ various colors and sizes, but it bears investigating! If you want really round or Saltwater pearls, expect to pay much more... Hoping to help- Betsy PS>There were also a lot of period ways to fake gems too! In fact I recall mention of a method of faking pearls which involved glass beads, glue, and ground fish scales.. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Rachel Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:22 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > How short is short? I have found that a jeweled/embroidered caul and a > tall hat hide a multitude of non-period hair sins. Well it is just below my ears and curly, which makes it practically impossible to keep it in one place for any length of time, except when I wear a coif which covers everything. The other problem with your suggestion is that as my group is seriously dedicated to authenticity a jewelled caul would be equally expensive! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 11:08:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCG82pE011728 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:08:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCG7J4S019656; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:07:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCG763G002611; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:07:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCG6v3G002435 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:06:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-215-175-81.aep.bellsouth.net [68.215.175.81] (may be forged)) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBCG6uWJ002239 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:06:56 -0500 Message-ID: <005401c3c0c9$f6eecaf0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c001c3c08c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:06:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Didn't black become the color for mourning clothes in a later century? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 10:59 AM Subject: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic > > Then a black velvet gown like the one Elizabeth de Valois wore (and > several > > other portraits of Spanish court ladies in terms of very severe black with > > minimal trim.. possibly they were all in mourning;) ) > > I think black was just very, very popular. I've found references in > literature to black worn for mourning, but I don't think we can say that > they were mourning *because* they wore black. In fact, if you look at > paintings from Italy and Spain at that time, all they seem to wear a LOT of > black, then SOME colours in the range red-pink, some yellow, and not much > else, even if they do exist in other colours. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 11:37:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCGb7pE011843 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:37:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCGZD4S022597; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:35:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCGZ83G027465; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:35:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCGZ33G027402 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:35:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hBCGZ1b4001468 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:35:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031212113336.01a9a720@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:35:06 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic In-Reply-To: <005401c3c0c9$f6eecaf0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> References: <00c001c3c08c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Actually been looking into this recently... Black for mourning - I've documented it back to the 13th century, in Western Europe and Britain. Still looking for earlier sources... interested in how long those roots go. Mari >Didn't black become the color for mourning clothes in a later century? Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 11:40:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCGeTpE011863 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:40:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCGdI4S022962; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:39:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCGdG3G001237; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:39:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBCGdB3G001131 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:39:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OsGuIxHws2fLC/oh1CyVv1Q=">; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:38:31 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JG8BWSPT; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:38:31 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:49:00 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs Message-ID: <20031212.083738.1728.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-7,9-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I don't know about Elizabethan, but have you tried a bag-style cap? They're built on a rigid frame that hugs the ears and then have a bag for the hair. And you can decorate them however you want. I have one for my Italians--had it made when my hair was about the same length as yours, and it worked great. Arlys On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:17:09 +0000 (GMT) =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= writes: > As I have fairly short hair and am wanting to go a little higher up > the Elizabethan social scale > this year I am going to be in need of a wig. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 11:59:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCGxbpE011952 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:59:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCGx44S024855; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:59:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCGx1u9018709; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCGwvu9018584 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:58:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.f7.346ac3ef (4230) for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:58:45 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:58:44 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: current and future projects To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/12/2003 5:16:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, rachel_holliday@yahoo.co.uk writes: 6. Remortgage the house so I can afford an Elizabethan wig! http://www.wig.dom/ http://www.bestwigoutlet.com/ http://www.acewigs.com/ http://www.wilshirewigs.com Just to start you off. Laura, Choreographer; Property Master http://www.guildofstaugustine.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 12:16:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCHG6pE012010 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:16:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHFI4S026506; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:15:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHFGu9004076; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:15:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHFBu9004022 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip251.207-173-164.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.164.251]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D675F6AAFA for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:15:09 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:15:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Message-ID: <3FD9871C.28243.2452CFC9@localhost> Priority: normal References: <4.3.1.2.20031210214829.0592d540@mail.frys.com> In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20031212003748.020d1250@64.87.54.245> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > Thanks all for the info on red headed barbie dolls, and costuming > bears. I think I saw pregnant Midge at Toys R Us, but pregnant is not > going to be useful for a corseted style I was hoping for. The head might be "interchangeable." I haven't worked with any recent Barbies, but they used to be that way in the past. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 12:16:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCHGupE012017 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:16:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHGM4S026592; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:16:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHGIu9005044; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:16:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHGCu9004930 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:16:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C5C2F89F for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:19:44 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Heather Meadows Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:16:10 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Subject: [h-cost] union suit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com A friend of mine is looking for a men's drop-bottom union suits - I haven't seen them, but I figured someone on this list might know where to get some. Any suggestions? Thank you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 12:27:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCHRKpE012086 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:27:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHQX4S027546; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:26:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHQUu9014528; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:26:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHQPu9014427 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:26:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) SMTP id LAA13179 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:26:23 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:26:23 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031212113336.01a9a720@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Actually been looking into this recently... Black for mourning - I've documented it back to the 13th century, in Western Europe and Britain. Still looking for earlier sources... interested in how long those roots go. Black was definately standard by the mid 16th century. However, the mordant used for black wasn't cheap and then as now, wearing black didn't necessarily signal one was in mourning. So mourning and wearing black(other than an armband or hat ribbon) and then all the rules and regulations were for those that could afford it. The well-to-do could afford new fabric and clothing; those that couldn't resorted to what they had, the dye tub, or just wearing the darkest colors they had, especially in the case of an unexpected family death, before they could get the proper mourning wear. The Gallery of Fashion(1794-1804)shows several fashionable examples of mourning and half-mourning for women, and Jane Austen's letters do mention having to wear mourning for family and friends, even royalty(and the constant making-do and worry as to what would make-do for mourning for the budget-restricted, like Austen). The Industrial Revolution made both black fabric for mourning cheaper for all and the etiquette more widespread and rules and regs possible. Prince Albert's death really gave the impetus to the mourning industry in England and the United States, especially for those widows who could afford to buy all the fabrics and have them made up into the "proper" wear over the year plus of wearing mourning. And then there were all the proper accessories from head to toe for each stage of mourning for the widow, all the family(which could be very extended the higher up the socio-economic scale one was), the servants and even the residence--the wealthy could even redecorate to proper mourning as the rules and regs extended that far for those who cared to invoke them. In the 19th century well into the 20th, the mourning industry was bigger than the bridal industry in terms of being in the public eye. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 12:28:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCHS6pE012095 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:28:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHRW4S027628; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:27:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHRUu9015422; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:27:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBCHRNu9015315 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:27:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (HELO corsetsandcostumes.com) (lindajthompson@sbcglobal.net@66.142.233.142 with plain) by smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2003 17:27:21 -0000 Message-ID: <3FD9FABA.1080109@corsetsandcostumes.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:28:26 -0600 From: linda User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Vintage Fashion book Ebay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thought I would share this... Late 1800's Fashion book I ran accross on Ebay... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=615&item=3571528037 Linda T _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 12:49:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCHnNpE012261 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:49:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHmX4S029496; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:48:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHmTMG003250; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:48:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHmNMG003150 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:48:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.119] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD84EEF00A6; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:40:20 -0500 Message-ID: <003501c3c0d8$c7a42c40$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] union suit Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:52:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com You might try some of the Amish dry goods sites, like Gohn Bros. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 12:16 PM Subject: [h-cost] union suit > A friend of mine is looking for a men's drop-bottom union suits - I > haven't seen them, but I figured someone on this list might know where > to get some. Any suggestions? > > Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 12:56:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCHu4pE012288 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:56:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHsQ4S000400; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:54:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHsMMG008820; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:54:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHsHMG008738 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:54:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F341C2F8A1 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:40:49 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] union suit Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:37:17 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Nevermind... we found some. Thanks. On Dec 12, 2003, at 9:16 AM, Heather Meadows wrote: > A friend of mine is looking for a men's drop-bottom union suits - I > haven't seen them, but I figured someone on this list might know where > to get some. Any suggestions? > > Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 13:03:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCI3PpE012324 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:03:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCI0G4S001048; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:00:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCI0EMa014304; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:00:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCI0AMa014252 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:00:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.119] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD02EE100A6; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:38:10 -0500 Message-ID: <002701c3c0d8$7a370180$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c001c3c08c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> <5.2.1.1.2.20031212113336.01a9a720@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:50:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In "Seeing Through Clothes" by Anne Hollander, (pub. 1970s?) a couple of chapters are devoted to the history of black as a color of fashion. The Bibliography should give some of her sources. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:35 AM Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic > > Actually been looking into this recently... > > Black for mourning - I've documented it back to the 13th > century, in Western Europe and Britain. Still looking for earlier > sources... interested in how long those roots go. > > Mari > > > >Didn't black become the color for mourning clothes in a later century? > > Mari Stewart > Cornell University > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 13:39:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCIdipE023775 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:39:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCIcU4S004494; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:38:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCIa2Ma018190; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:36:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCIZHMa017692 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:35:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-83-213-172.asm.bellsouth.net [65.83.213.172]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBCIZA1r005198 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:35:10 -0500 Message-ID: <003c01c3c0de$abd34bd0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000b01c3c0c9$834a4cf0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:35:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I found a guy in Bejing who sells potato pearls on ebay. Very nice quality!! I can't remember exactly, but I want to say we paid $3 a strand. And they came in this cool chinese pouch. Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:03 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs > Pearls are(were?) also very "in" for decorating cauls, hats doublets > etc, and freshwater "rice" or "potato" shaped pearls can be had for > anywhere from 2-20$ per 16" string. We were just discussing this on my > Jewelry group. One vendor had an offer of 100 strings for 100$ various > colors and sizes, but it bears investigating! If you want really round > or Saltwater pearls, expect to pay much more... > Hoping to help- Betsy > > PS>There were also a lot of period ways to fake gems too! In fact I > recall mention of a method of faking pearls which involved glass beads, > glue, and ground fish scales.. > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Rachel > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:22 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs > > --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > > How short is short? I have found that a jeweled/embroidered caul and a > > tall hat hide a multitude of non-period hair sins. > > Well it is just below my ears and curly, which makes it practically > impossible to keep it in one > place for any length of time, except when I wear a coif which covers > everything. The other > problem with your suggestion is that as my group is seriously dedicated > to authenticity a jewelled > caul would be equally expensive! > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 13:42:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCIg3pE024210 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:42:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCIfQ4S004604; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:41:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCIfMMa021391; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:41:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCIa7Ma018284 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:36:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-83-213-172.asm.bellsouth.net [65.83.213.172]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBCIZt0E018356 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:35:55 -0500 Message-ID: <004b01c3c0de$c6c703f0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c001c3c08c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> <5.2.1.1.2.20031212113336.01a9a720@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:35:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Very cool. Are you going to share with us when you are finished? :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:35 AM Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic > > Actually been looking into this recently... > > Black for mourning - I've documented it back to the 13th > century, in Western Europe and Britain. Still looking for earlier > sources... interested in how long those roots go. > > Mari > > > >Didn't black become the color for mourning clothes in a later century? > > Mari Stewart > Cornell University > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 14:15:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCJFEpE002745 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:15:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJAJ5k007208; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:14:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCIE2Ma027344; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from david.io.com (david.io.com [199.170.88.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCIDOMb026599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:13:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by david.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBCIC3p2026209 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:12:03 -0600 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id hBCIDNoR005393 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:13:23 -0600 Received: from 199.50.29.41 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:13:23 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <58270.199.50.29.41.1071252803.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:13:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] union suit From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Speaking of which .... Those overalls that the women wore during the war era, the real pretty ones that only had a bib like thing from the waist to the breast and nothing in back, what are those called? Where can I get a pattern for one? Chiara Heather Meadows said: > Nevermind... we found some. Thanks. > > On Dec 12, 2003, at 9:16 AM, Heather Meadows wrote: > >> A friend of mine is looking for a men's drop-bottom union suits - I >> haven't seen them, but I figured someone on this list might know where >> to get some. Any suggestions? >> >> Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Ches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 14:23:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCJNjpE006226 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:23:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJNJ4S008412; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:23:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJNFSp029400; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:23:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJN1Sp029047 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:23:01 -0700 (MST) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 463432 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:22:54 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:22:54 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] union suit From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <58270.199.50.29.41.1071252803.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Didn't Folkwear have a pattern for that? LynnD On 12/12/03 10:13 AM, "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" wrote: > Speaking of which .... > > Those overalls that the women wore during the war era, the real pretty > ones that only had a bib like thing from the waist to the breast and > nothing in back, what are those called? > > Where can I get a pattern for one? > > Chiara > > > Heather Meadows said: >> Nevermind... we found some. Thanks. >> >> On Dec 12, 2003, at 9:16 AM, Heather Meadows wrote: >> >>> A friend of mine is looking for a men's drop-bottom union suits - I >>> haven't seen them, but I figured someone on this list might know where >>> to get some. Any suggestions? >>> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > Ches > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 14:31:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCJV5pE008593 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:31:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJUZ4S008994; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:30:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJUXSp006101; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:30:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJUJSp005802 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:30:26 -0700 (MST) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 463462 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:30:14 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:30:14 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003c01c3c0de$abd34bd0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com A few years ago I went to one of those traveling bead shows or fairs - it was at the San Mateo (Calif) convention center or some such place. I was able to snag 33 strands (16") of rice pearls for 50 cents a strand because I bought the whole bunch. You should have seen my Elizabethan court outfit that year. Granted, not all the pearls were good enough to use, but I probably lost the equivalent to one strand in the 20 strands I used for the outfit. The others I've been using for jewelry, Christmas ornaments, etc. It was a great purchase. I know that we have one company that puts these shows on up and down the coast; they hit the S.F. Bay area in March and September and are, I think, in L.A. in May and November. Check the bead stores in your area for info, or look in the beading magazines, especially Beads & Buttons. LynnD On 12/12/03 10:35 AM, "Teena Paradise" wrote: > I found a guy in Bejing who sells potato pearls on ebay. Very nice quality!! > I can't remember exactly, but I want to say we paid $3 a strand. And they > came in this cool chinese pouch. > > Teena > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Betsy Marshall" > To: "'Historical Costume'" > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:03 AM > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs > > >> Pearls are(were?) also very "in" for decorating cauls, hats doublets >> etc, and freshwater "rice" or "potato" shaped pearls can be had for >> anywhere from 2-20$ per 16" string. We were just discussing this on my >> Jewelry group. One vendor had an offer of 100 strings for 100$ various >> colors and sizes, but it bears investigating! If you want really round >> or Saltwater pearls, expect to pay much more... >> Hoping to help- Betsy >> >> PS>There were also a lot of period ways to fake gems too! In fact I >> recall mention of a method of faking pearls which involved glass beads, >> glue, and ground fish scales.. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] >> On Behalf Of Rachel >> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:22 AM >> To: Historical Costume >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs >> >> --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > >>> How short is short? I have found that a jeweled/embroidered caul and a >>> tall hat hide a multitude of non-period hair sins. >> >> Well it is just below my ears and curly, which makes it practically >> impossible to keep it in one >> place for any length of time, except when I wear a coif which covers >> everything. The other >> problem with your suggestion is that as my group is seriously dedicated >> to authenticity a jewelled >> caul would be equally expensive! >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 14:36:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCJaxpE011429 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:36:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJYw4S009410; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:34:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJYvSp010237; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:34:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJYrSp010175 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234])hBCJYqb4012997 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:34:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031212143439.00b5bd10@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:35:02 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic In-Reply-To: <004b01c3c0de$c6c703f0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> References: <00c001c3c08c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> <5.2.1.1.2.20031212113336.01a9a720@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Oh, well... I'd love to. Mari >Very cool. Are you going to share with us when you are finished? :) >----- Original Message ----- >From: "M Stewart" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:35 AM >Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic > > > > > > Actually been looking into this recently... > > > > Black for mourning - I've documented it back to the 13th > > century, in Western Europe and Britain. Still looking for earlier > > sources... interested in how long those roots go. > > > > Mari > > > > > > >Didn't black become the color for mourning clothes in a later century? > > > > Mari Stewart > > Cornell University > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 14:37:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCJbXpE011559 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:37:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJaj4S009623; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:36:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJafSp011900; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:36:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav39.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJabSp011772 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:36:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:36:32 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav39.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:36:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c001c3c08c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> <005401c3c0c9$f6eecaf0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:35:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2003 19:36:32.0653 (UTC) FILETIME=[3F2F03D0:01C3C0E7] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > Didn't black become the color for mourning clothes in a later century? Actually, you might be right, I know I read two references to black as a mourning color in my literature course, but there's one I can't remember where I saw it. I also thought that it was in later centuries. However, in Dr Faustus by Marlowe, published in 1604, there is the following (last act, last scene) > We'll give his mangled limbs due burial, > And all the students clothed in mourning black > Shall wait upon his heavy funeral. I think we have to make the difference that maybe il later centuries you would never wear black unless you were in mourning, and in other centuries you would also wear black when you were not in mourning. But this is highly speculative. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 14:51:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCJpupE012999 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:51:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJox4S011177; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:50:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJovSp024990; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:50:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCJotSp024964 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:50:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-83-213-172.asm.bellsouth.net [65.83.213.172]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBCJosN2001711 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:50:54 -0500 Message-ID: <011301c3c0e9$40855a20$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:50:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com The bead show is here in Atlanta this weekend. You can bet I am going to try and finagle one of these deals! :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "h costume" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs > A few years ago I went to one of those traveling bead shows or fairs - it > was at the San Mateo (Calif) convention center or some such place. I was > able to snag 33 strands (16") of rice pearls for 50 cents a strand because I > bought the whole bunch. You should have seen my Elizabethan court outfit > that year. Granted, not all the pearls were good enough to use, but I > probably lost the equivalent to one strand in the 20 strands I used for the > outfit. The others I've been using for jewelry, Christmas ornaments, etc. It > was a great purchase. I know that we have one company that puts these shows > on up and down the coast; they hit the S.F. Bay area in March and September > and are, I think, in L.A. in May and November. Check the bead stores in your > area for info, or look in the beading magazines, especially Beads & Buttons. > > LynnD > > On 12/12/03 10:35 AM, "Teena Paradise" wrote: > > > I found a guy in Bejing who sells potato pearls on ebay. Very nice quality!! > > I can't remember exactly, but I want to say we paid $3 a strand. And they > > came in this cool chinese pouch. > > > > Teena > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Betsy Marshall" > > To: "'Historical Costume'" > > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:03 AM > > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs > > > > > >> Pearls are(were?) also very "in" for decorating cauls, hats doublets > >> etc, and freshwater "rice" or "potato" shaped pearls can be had for > >> anywhere from 2-20$ per 16" string. We were just discussing this on my > >> Jewelry group. One vendor had an offer of 100 strings for 100$ various > >> colors and sizes, but it bears investigating! If you want really round > >> or Saltwater pearls, expect to pay much more... > >> Hoping to help- Betsy > >> > >> PS>There were also a lot of period ways to fake gems too! In fact I > >> recall mention of a method of faking pearls which involved glass beads, > >> glue, and ground fish scales.. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > >> On Behalf Of Rachel > >> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:22 AM > >> To: Historical Costume > >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs > >> > >> --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > >>> How short is short? I have found that a jeweled/embroidered caul and a > >>> tall hat hide a multitude of non-period hair sins. > >> > >> Well it is just below my ears and curly, which makes it practically > >> impossible to keep it in one > >> place for any length of time, except when I wear a coif which covers > >> everything. The other > >> problem with your suggestion is that as my group is seriously dedicated > >> to authenticity a jewelled > >> caul would be equally expensive! > >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 15:01:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCK1ApE013044 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:01:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCK0L4S012128; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:00:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCK0KZO003807; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:00:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCK0GZO003750 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:00:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hBCK2oP25515 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:02:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:02:50 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200312122002.hBCK2oP25515@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Rachel wrote: > > Well it is just below my ears and curly, which makes it practically impossible to keep it in one > place for any length of time, except when I wear a coif which covers everything. The other > problem with your suggestion is that as my group is seriously dedicated to authenticity a jewelled > caul would be equally expensive! Why? The elizabethans certainly used glass substitutes for more expensive stones. It's easy enough here in the US to find glass cabochons for not very much. I'd suggest looking at bead shops and places that sell jewelry making supplies. Glass isn't as cheap as plastic rhinestones, but it's certainly not going to be anywhere near as expensive as a wig. Glass "pearls" are also not that hard to come by on this side of the pond. I unfortunately don't know who the good jewelry suppliers are in the UK. Someone else will have to answer that question. And if your hair is long enough in the front, you can set your hair on rollers to stick almost straight up and you'll have an elizabethan lady's hairdo. Having curly, unruly hair is actually an advantage at that point. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 16:15:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCLFPpE013251 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:15:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCLEb4S019326; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:14:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCLEMFN010701; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:14:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCLDdFN010056 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:13:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.119] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id ADA028500E0; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:05:36 -0500 Message-ID: <001e01c3c0f5$74d766e0$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] union suit Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:18:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I too think there has been on from Folkwear..."Rosie the Riveter" coveralls. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "h costume" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] union suit > Didn't Folkwear have a pattern for that? > > LynnD > > On 12/12/03 10:13 AM, "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" > wrote: > > > Speaking of which .... > > > > Those overalls that the women wore during the war era, the real pretty > > ones that only had a bib like thing from the waist to the breast and > > nothing in back, what are those called? > > > > Where can I get a pattern for one? > > > > Chiara > > > > > > Heather Meadows said: > >> Nevermind... we found some. Thanks. > >> > >> On Dec 12, 2003, at 9:16 AM, Heather Meadows wrote: > >> > >>> A friend of mine is looking for a men's drop-bottom union suits - I > >>> haven't seen them, but I figured someone on this list might know where > >>> to get some. Any suggestions? > >>> > >>> Thank you! > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> h-costume mailing list > >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > Ches > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 16:42:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCLgFpE013346 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:42:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCLdC4c021670; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:41:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCLILFN014125; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:18:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCLFLFN011541 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:15:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.119] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE0525600BC; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:07:17 -0500 Message-ID: <002401c3c0f5$b167db80$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:19:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com And remember that 'Fire Mountain' often has these on sale in one form or the other. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "h costume" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs > A few years ago I went to one of those traveling bead shows or fairs - it > was at the San Mateo (Calif) convention center or some such place. I was > able to snag 33 strands (16") of rice pearls for 50 cents a strand because I > bought the whole bunch. You should have seen my Elizabethan court outfit > that year. Granted, not all the pearls were good enough to use, but I > probably lost the equivalent to one strand in the 20 strands I used for the > outfit. The others I've been using for jewelry, Christmas ornaments, etc. It > was a great purchase. I know that we have one company that puts these shows > on up and down the coast; they hit the S.F. Bay area in March and September > and are, I think, in L.A. in May and November. Check the bead stores in your > area for info, or look in the beading magazines, especially Beads & Buttons. > > LynnD > > On 12/12/03 10:35 AM, "Teena Paradise" wrote: > > > I found a guy in Bejing who sells potato pearls on ebay. Very nice quality!! > > I can't remember exactly, but I want to say we paid $3 a strand. And they > > came in this cool chinese pouch. > > > > Teena > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Betsy Marshall" > > To: "'Historical Costume'" > > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:03 AM > > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs > > > > > >> Pearls are(were?) also very "in" for decorating cauls, hats doublets > >> etc, and freshwater "rice" or "potato" shaped pearls can be had for > >> anywhere from 2-20$ per 16" string. We were just discussing this on my > >> Jewelry group. One vendor had an offer of 100 strings for 100$ various > >> colors and sizes, but it bears investigating! If you want really round > >> or Saltwater pearls, expect to pay much more... > >> Hoping to help- Betsy > >> > >> PS>There were also a lot of period ways to fake gems too! In fact I > >> recall mention of a method of faking pearls which involved glass beads, > >> glue, and ground fish scales.. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > >> On Behalf Of Rachel > >> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:22 AM > >> To: Historical Costume > >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs > >> > >> --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > >>> How short is short? I have found that a jeweled/embroidered caul and a > >>> tall hat hide a multitude of non-period hair sins. > >> > >> Well it is just below my ears and curly, which makes it practically > >> impossible to keep it in one > >> place for any length of time, except when I wear a coif which covers > >> everything. The other > >> problem with your suggestion is that as my group is seriously dedicated > >> to authenticity a jewelled > >> caul would be equally expensive! > >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 17:23:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCMNepE013482 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:23:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMMs4S026011; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:22:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMMpgO014364; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:22:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-dav47.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.10.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMMngO014245 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:22:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:22:41 -0800 Received: from 63.238.214.31 by bay7-dav47.bay7.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:22:41 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.238.214.31] X-Originating-Email: [robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com] X-Sender: robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com From: "Kelly Dorman" To: Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:22:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2003 22:22:41.0760 (UTC) FILETIME=[753C0600:01C3C0FE] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] drawn bonnet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hBCMNepE013482 I'm resending as this appears to not have come through the first time - my apologies if it shows up twice. The interior of bonnets are generally not lined or at most have about a 3" wide band of organdy tacked in place right where your trimmings stop. This is basically disposable, as it will absorb hair oils and can be easily replaced when soiled. When making the bonnet using canes, the last cane is right at the back opening, which leaves a gathered ring of fabric hanging down. You then "play" with the excess fabric until it looks pleasingly gathered or pleated and secure it at the base of the back - doesn't matter if it's on the inside or outside as this will be covered with the curtain or bravolet. Or as happened on the first one I made, there wasn't enough fabric left to reach the bottom, so I gathered all the fabric to the centre and secured it which gave an interesting look. You may want to try attaching a gathered piece of fabric right sides together on the back top and sides and then flip it over (right sides out) and then "play" with the arrangement. I wish I could show pictures of mine - it would make it much easier to try to explain. You've made a great start and have chosen a very pretty colour. Do you have plans for your trimmings? If you have enough fabric, it's lovely to gather a piece over just a couple of canes and then tack that in place across the crown - it takes much less fabric than doing all the caning and is relatively low priced (and accurate) trimming. Hope this makes some sense and helps, it's very seldom that I can contribute any info to this group! Kelly _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 17:34:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCMYDpE013541 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:34:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMXL4S027076; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:33:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMXHgO023851; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:33:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMXAgO023721 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:33:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-39-192.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.39.192]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMWRL1005780 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:32:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031212135437.04884820@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:07:44 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031212113336.01a9a720@postoffice8.mail.cornell .edu> References: <005401c3c0c9$f6eecaf0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> <00c001c3c08c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > Black for mourning - I've documented it back to the 13th > century, in Western Europe and Britain. Still looking for earlier > sources... interested in how long those roots go. OK, so some people wore black for mourning as early as the 13th century (and I do believe you when you say that you can document this). But when did the idea that black necessarily meant mourning begin in Europe? And did it mean that all over Europe, or just in some countries or circumstances? In Spain, in the Renaissance, black seems very common for dresses and men's garments, as it does for the long robes for scholars and older men in the Germanies at the same time. Did this necessarily indicate mourning? Does the fact that most Catholic and Anglican priests wear black indicate mourning? How about black men's suits in the mid 1800s? Were there periods when wearing black meant mourning in some circumstances and not in others? Also, when did the wearing of black cease to mean mourning (and I don't mean today's Goths)? I'm not just hassling you, I'd really like to know this. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 17:34:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCMYTpE013547 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:34:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMXf4S027126; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:33:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMXegO024225; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:33:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMXBgO023746 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:33:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-39-192.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.39.192]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMWRKx005780 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:32:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031212133915.054fb250@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:32:53 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century costume group- a funny :-) In-Reply-To: <20031212140028.94533.qmail@web40111.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >I read your web address and thought you were in California. Baroque is my >husbands favorite time period (unfortunately the other reinactment group >we play with stops @1600) We hope to be transferred to san diego shortly >and I thought whoopee! After some reading I realized the ca was for >canada,lol. who would have thought? ;-) When in San Diego, check out the ship Star of India. She's a three-masted sailing ship more than 100 years old. Volunteers with a certain number of hours per year (and a health plan) can sail on her when she goes out for her annual sail! CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 17:59:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCMxepE013633 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:59:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMmr4S028236; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:48:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMmogO006996; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:48:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCMmjgO006906 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:48:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.176.69]) by smail1.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 1487184 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:47:03 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pressing vintage 1890s silk dress? Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:49:41 -0600 Message-ID: <000901c3c102$3b878b60$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com DON"T!!! It can probably be safely steamed. If you don't have a steamer, take it to someone who does--dry cleaner, alterations tailor, etc. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Talia Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 5:43 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Pressing vintage 1890s silk dress? I've just purchased a vintage 1890s silk dress which is in surprisingly good condition for a 100 plus year old dress. I am intending to wear it to a Victorian murder mystery party this weekend but I need to press it. Any suggestions for safely ironing this old of a dress? TIA Talia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 18:14:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCNEUpE013683 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:14:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCNDs4S001135; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:13:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCNDpi1028425; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:13:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from secure4.netll.com (secure4.netll.com [216.139.205.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCNDli2028355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:13:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from lithiate by secure4.netll.com with local (Exim 4.24) id 1AUwTr-0007CL-MW for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:13:55 -0500 From: "Sarah Goodman-Rodriguez" To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.26 X-IPAddress: 165.235.242.125 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:13:55 -0500 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - secure4.netll.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32560 32560] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - secure4.netll.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: Black X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com The rumor I've heard is that black was established as the color of mourning after Queen Victoria took to wearing it in her widowhood. Certianly, the Victorian era is when you start seeing all the elaborate rules of mourning cropping up, such as how much black you are required to wear in relation to the deceased, how long, what type of fabric, etc. This is completely unsubstaniated by research on my part, however. ;) Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com > > > Black for mourning - I've documented it back to the 13th > > century, in Western Europe and Britain. Still looking for earlier > > sources... interested in how long those roots go. > > OK, so some people wore black for mourning as early as the 13th century > (and I do believe you when you say that you can document this). But when > did the idea that black necessarily meant mourning begin in Europe? And > did it mean that all over Europe, or just in some countries or circumstances? > > In Spain, in the Renaissance, black seems very common for dresses and men's > garments, as it does for the long robes for scholars and older men in the > Germanies at the same time. Did this necessarily indicate mourning? Does > the fact that most Catholic and Anglican priests wear black indicate > mourning? How about black men's suits in the mid 1800s? Were there > periods when wearing black meant mourning in some circumstances and not in > others? Also, when did the wearing of black cease to mean mourning (and I > don't mean today's Goths)? > > I'm not just hassling you, I'd really like to know this. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 19:37:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBD0bMpE013921 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:37:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD0ag4S013125; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:36:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD0abcJ005722; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:36:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from out010.verizon.net (out010pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD0aXcJ005678 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:36:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from Fiona ([162.83.118.118]) by out010.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20031213003633.QKFB18505.out010.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:36:33 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 17th century costume group- a funny :-) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:36:30 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031212133915.054fb250@mail.frys.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [162.83.118.118] at Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:36:32 -0600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Currently the Rose is also moored there, though she is still wearing her colors as The Surprise from Master and Commander. Ranald >When in San Diego, check out the ship Star of India. She's a three-masted >sailing ship more than 100 years old. Volunteers with a certain number of >hours per year (and a health plan) can sail on her when she goes out for >her annual sail! > > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 19:54:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBD0s2pE013985 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:54:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD0qj4S014227; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:52:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD0qhcJ015603; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:52:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD0qdcJ015507 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:52:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a24.in-tch.com [66.62.107.4]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBD0V1714160 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:31:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FDA6377.22D5BECB@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:55:19 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs References: <011301c3c0e9$40855a20$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I've gotten great pearls from Fire Mountain Gems. They have a huge variety of differently shaped (and colored) freshwater pearls. They also have some nice fake ones, done on a glass base (much nicer weight than plastic). --sue Teena Paradise wrote: > > The bead show is here in Atlanta this weekend. You can bet I am going to try > and finagle one of these deals! :) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lynn Downward" > To: "h costume" > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:30 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs > > > A few years ago I went to one of those traveling bead shows or fairs - it > > was at the San Mateo (Calif) convention center or some such place. I was > > able to snag 33 strands (16") of rice pearls for 50 cents a strand because > I > > bought the whole bunch. You should have seen my Elizabethan court outfit > > that year. Granted, not all the pearls were good enough to use, but I > > probably lost the equivalent to one strand in the 20 strands I used for > the > > outfit. The others I've been using for jewelry, Christmas ornaments, etc. > It > > was a great purchase. I know that we have one company that puts these > shows > > on up and down the coast; they hit the S.F. Bay area in March and > September > > and are, I think, in L.A. in May and November. Check the bead stores in > your > > area for info, or look in the beading magazines, especially Beads & > Buttons. > > > > LynnD > > > > On 12/12/03 10:35 AM, "Teena Paradise" wrote: > > > > > I found a guy in Bejing who sells potato pearls on ebay. Very nice > quality!! > > > I can't remember exactly, but I want to say we paid $3 a strand. And > they > > > came in this cool chinese pouch. > > > > > > Teena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Betsy Marshall" > > > To: "'Historical Costume'" > > > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:03 AM > > > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs > > > > > > > > >> Pearls are(were?) also very "in" for decorating cauls, hats doublets > > >> etc, and freshwater "rice" or "potato" shaped pearls can be had for > > >> anywhere from 2-20$ per 16" string. We were just discussing this on my > > >> Jewelry group. One vendor had an offer of 100 strings for 100$ various > > >> colors and sizes, but it bears investigating! If you want really round > > >> or Saltwater pearls, expect to pay much more... > > >> Hoping to help- Betsy > > >> > > >> PS>There were also a lot of period ways to fake gems too! In fact I > > >> recall mention of a method of faking pearls which involved glass beads, > > >> glue, and ground fish scales.. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > > >> On Behalf Of Rachel > > >> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:22 AM > > >> To: Historical Costume > > >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs > > >> > > >> --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > > >>> How short is short? I have found that a jeweled/embroidered caul and a > > >>> tall hat hide a multitude of non-period hair sins. > > >> > > >> Well it is just below my ears and curly, which makes it practically > > >> impossible to keep it in one > > >> place for any length of time, except when I wear a coif which covers > > >> everything. The other > > >> problem with your suggestion is that as my group is seriously dedicated > > >> to authenticity a jewelled > > >> caul would be equally expensive! > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 21:12:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBD2CwpE014242 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:12:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD2CP4S019061; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:12:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD2CMxX002576; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:12:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD2CHxX002511 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:12:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04649 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:38:29 -0600 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:38:29 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs In-Reply-To: <3FDA6377.22D5BECB@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote: > I've gotten great pearls from Fire Mountain Gems. They have a huge > variety of differently shaped (and colored) freshwater pearls. They > also have some nice fake ones, done on a glass base (much nicer weight > than plastic). Fire Mountain has excellent customer service and a better return policy than most bead/pearl vendors, though you usually pay a little more. I've heard that the pearls from South Pacific are quite good, and I know his prices are excellent (though I haven't seen the pearls myself). Because of the irregular supply he's taken the pearls out of his catalog and put them in the monthly flyer. The pearl page on his current flyer is here: http://www.southpacificwholesale.com/month6.htm His catalog is a stitch to read, anyway. http://www.beading.com/catalogue.html I get my pearls from a local wholesaler; example price $3.50/strand for freshwater pearls in rice size/shape, many colors available. That's at the counter, though. They have a web presence at http://www.nationalsupply.com/ but if you're looking for something in particular, just call them for up-to-date information. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 12 23:15:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBD4FqpE014788 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:15:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD4FG4S026133; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:15:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD4FAZB005674; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:15:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD4F7ZB005634 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hBD4HeJ28988 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:17:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:17:40 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200312130417.hBD4HeJ28988@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com For higher end jewlery findings and gems, I buy from Rio Grande. They tend to have gemstone beads with much more uniform cuts and holes that are of useable size (not always true of the ones from South Pacific and Fire Mountain...but at least South Pacific warns you about that). http://www.riogrande.com They tend to have *much* better prices on silver and gold stock, as well if you do your own jewelry work. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 01:24:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBD6OfpE015128 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 01:24:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD6Nx4S001777; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:23:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD6NuDZ004210; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:23:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD6NsDZ004180 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:23:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBD6NrAA002861 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:23:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.233] (tnt-1-41.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.233]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBD6NYRM002699 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:23:51 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FD95C11.B372A46@in-tch.com> References: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> <200312112207.36890.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FD95C11.B372A46@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:19:41 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 11:11 PM -0700 12/11/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: >Hey, I didn't think of it from that angle! So...what projects have folks >actually *finished* this past year? *grin* Well, it's not costume-related, but this year I finally finished my PhD! (Only one more signature to go, and the deadline for turning it in is the 18th, so I'm still gnawing my knuckles to the bone.) Other than that .... Hmm, what _have_ I done. Nothing really big. More experiments with early medieval knee-length cloth hose. More fun doing doll-sized replicas of archaeological clothing. An everyday suit coat and vest based on mid/late 18th c. patterns. A new style of Migration Era shoe. Projects for the new year -- I really need to do the set of Elizabethans for my youngest brother that I promised him several years ago. (Oops, _more_ than several years. Not sure I want to calculate the precise number.) I've got enough thread spun to finish the starting warp for my Iron Age cloak, so I need to spin ahead for the weft so I won't have the upright loom tying up space in the living room too long. I'm now free of my self-imposed web-absence, and one of the things I want to get up is my working database of archaeological clothing. And I just might make some new clothes for myself .... Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 06:10:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDBAUpE020065 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 06:10:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDB9o4S009102; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 04:09:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDB9Vu3004603; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 04:09:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDB9Su3004499 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 04:09:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hBDAXeA03590.; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:33:40 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:31:42 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:31:25 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >>> kayta@frys.com 12/12/03 22:07:44 >>> wrote: >OK, so some people wore black for mourning as early as the 13th >century (and I do believe you when you say that you can document this). >But when did the idea that black necessarily meant mourning begin in >Europe? And did it mean that all over Europe, or just in some countries >or circumstances? >In Spain, in the Renaissance, black seems very common for dresses >and men's garments, as it does for the long robes for scholars and older >men in the Germanies at the same time. Did this necessarily indicate >mourning? Does the fact that most Catholic and Anglican priests wear >black indicate mourning? How about black men's suits in the mid >1800s? Were there periods when wearing black meant mourning in >some circumstances and not in others? Also, when did the wearing of >black cease to mean mourning (and I don't mean today's Goths)? I don't think black has ever *only* been a sign of mourning. It could be worn to indicate sober respectability (17th century Puritans, clergy in later centuries, Victorian businessmen in black frock-coats) and of course in more recent times we have the "little black dress", where black represents classic elegance. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 06:57:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDBvkpE020171 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 06:57:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDBvC4S014990; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 04:57:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDBvBu3033097; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 04:57:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDBv8u3033005 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 04:57:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p107-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.107] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AV5Me-0003L1-00; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 21:43:04 +1300 Message-ID: <008701c3c155$1c76e240$6bc0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c001c3c08c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 21:42:57 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > I think black was just very, very popular. I've found references in > literature to black worn for mourning, but I don't think we can say that > they were mourning *because* they wore black. In fact, if you look at > paintings from Italy and Spain at that time, all they seem to wear a LOT of > black, then SOME colours in the range red-pink, some yellow, and not much > else, even if they do exist in other colours. It's not just the black, but the all black trim or the use of only minimal amount of pearl trimming. Not all black means mourning sure, but there are definitely clues regarding trim (crepe for later centuries specifically, how much was used dictated how far into mourning you were etc.) The Elizabeth de Valois one is almost certainly in mourning as it was painted shortly before her death, if not just after as she dies within six months of her huband. I did not assume that it was mourning based purely on the black, but the use of trimming and some understanding of at least one of the women. Personally I'd love it to not be mourning wear.. or that one or two of the other ladies were not in mourning so I could fudge it a little and pretend, well she could wear this for mourning but it could also be fashionable. But the gown is just so stunning in its super clean lines that I will make it regardless of whether she really is in mourning. Which she probably is;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 09:35:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDEZqpE020879 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:35:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDEZC4S022496; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 07:35:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDEZ3OP054465; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 07:35:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBDEZ0OP054389 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 07:35:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCgf7ut7E4zMT31kcoutnn1wF7byoe/2xKA==">; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 06:34:42 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JHAN8SP2; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 06:34:42 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:33:13 -0600 Message-ID: <20031213.083314.-638351.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Queere Eye For Thye Medieval Man X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com First go here: http://bobsawyer.com/ Then go here: http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php to see how to do one for yourself. Very funny! Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 09:49:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDEnopE020929 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:49:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDEnM4S023321; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 07:49:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDEnMOP061939; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 07:49:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDEnKOP061917 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 07:49:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hBDEird03987 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:44:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from user-2iniku5.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.83.197] helo=[209.86.74.248]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AVB0f-0007Pb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:44:47 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200312120601.hBC61ZPF012344@net.indra.com> References: <200312120601.hBC61ZPF012344@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:00:42 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: LOTR Cloaks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 11:01 PM -0700 12/11/03, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >November/December 2003. The cloak is really cool--in design, it's a >fairly simple half-circle cloak with a hood. What's neat is what the >artist did for the weave. For the warp, she used 2 different >thicknesses of 2-ply wool in 10 random "forest" colors. The weft is a SNIP >I'd love to make a cloak like this, but I don't have a loom wide >enough. I'm also not that experienced a weaver. Yet! >--sue Thanks--have mag ordered, soooo just how wide a loom is needed??? Ta Carol, with a 60" loom occupying most of what was the formal room with high ceilings...and at least 2 projects ahead of this one.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 10:32:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDFWXpE021270 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:32:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDFVv4S025673; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:31:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDFVvOP083055; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:31:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDFVtOP083036 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:31:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a235.in-tch.com [66.62.107.35]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBDFAK716462 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:10:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FDB318F.E7F6A127@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:34:39 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: LOTR Cloaks References: <200312120601.hBC61ZPF012344@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com You're in luck. The one the artist/author used was an 8-shaft loom with a 60" reed; reed has 10 dents/inch. Fabric was woven @ 10 epi for warp and 10 ppi for weft. I bet if one was sufficiently practiced in weaving, that one could adapt the instructions for a narrower loom, and weave 2 pieces of fabric and sew them together, but I'm just a beginner, and a floor loom is years away for me, in terms of financial investment AND room in this tiny little apartment! --sue fastusminimus wrote: > > Thanks--have mag ordered, soooo just how wide a loom is needed??? > Ta > Carol, with a 60" loom occupying most of what was the formal room > with high ceilings...and at least 2 projects ahead of this one.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 11:07:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDG7ipE021622 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:07:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDG7G4S028092; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:07:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDG7GOP000968; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:07:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDG7DOP000938 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:07:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a235.in-tch.com [66.62.107.35]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBDFjb702270 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:45:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FDB39D4.BC2737FB@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:09:56 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic References: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> <200312112207.36890.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FD95C11.B372A46@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Oh, hey! That's awesome! You've been working on that for a while, now, haven't you? "Dr. Jones," that sounds so cool! What are you using to spin the yarn for your cloak? and what kind of (I'm assuming) wool? Are you using singles, or are you plying it? --sue, full of questions this morning Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > At 11:11 PM -0700 12/11/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: > >Hey, I didn't think of it from that angle! So...what projects have folks > >actually *finished* this past year? > > *grin* Well, it's not costume-related, but this year I finally > finished my PhD! (Only one more signature to go, and the deadline > for turning it in is the 18th, so I'm still gnawing my knuckles to > the bone.) Other than that .... Hmm, what _have_ I done. Nothing > really big. More experiments with early medieval knee-length cloth > hose. More fun doing doll-sized replicas of archaeological clothing. > An everyday suit coat and vest based on mid/late 18th c. patterns. A > new style of Migration Era shoe. > > Projects for the new year -- I really need to do the set of > Elizabethans for my youngest brother that I promised him several > years ago. (Oops, _more_ than several years. Not sure I want to > calculate the precise number.) I've got enough thread spun to finish > the starting warp for my Iron Age cloak, so I need to spin ahead for > the weft so I won't have the upright loom tying up space in the > living room too long. I'm now free of my self-imposed web-absence, > and one of the things I want to get up is my working database of > archaeological clothing. And I just might make some new clothes for > myself .... > > Heather > -- > ***** > Heather Rose Jones > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > ***** > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 11:18:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDGI7pE021715 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:18:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDGHW4S028789; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:17:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDGHXOP005917; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:17:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-dav14.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.10.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDGHTOP005848 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:17:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:17:22 -0800 Received: from 63.149.20.72 by bay7-dav14.bay7.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:17:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.149.20.72] X-Originating-Email: [robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com] X-Sender: robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com From: "Kelly Dorman" To: Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:17:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2003 16:17:22.0265 (UTC) FILETIME=[969C4490:01C3C194] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] drawn bonnet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hBDGI7pE021715 I found a view pictures that I hope will help, http://themantuamaker.net/dressybonnets The rust coloured bonnet in the top row shows a good example of a capote back, most of the rest show "hard-backs" which are backed in buckram. The black one in the top row is a good example of adding caning as trim, as opposed to caning the entire bonnet (and I misspoke, the caned trim is on the brim, not the crown - bonnets have only very small crowns at the back) http://www.antique-fashion.com/2203.htm This is earlier, but again shows a capote-type back. The more original bonnets I see leads me to believe there's not a whole lot you can do "wrong" as long as you have the correct foundation shaping (which you do) and are careful to stay away from obviously modern - read plastic - trimmings; it seems that just about anything goes for bonnets! Kelly _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 11:23:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDGNppE021754 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:23:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDGNQ4S029049; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:23:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDGNROP008757; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:23:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDGNMOP008640 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:23:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a235.in-tch.com [66.62.107.35]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBDG1e710221 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:01:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FDB3D96.26FBD655@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:25:58 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic References: <00c001c3c08c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> <005401c3c0c9$f6eecaf0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I'm wondering if it (black textiles) couldn't have been thought of in a number of ways? as luxury items, because of the cost of dyeing things a good black? But black or dark colors (dark grey, dark brown, etc.) also start having overtones of "soberness" and piety by the time you get to the protestant revolution--I'm thinking of Stubbes' railing against all the clothing and fashion excesses, and later (17th c.) clothing differences between those following Cromwell, and those trying to restore Charles? And then, you could throw in all the American stuff--ISTR learning about laws forbidding certain colors and such in the puritan areas (and what just popped into my mind was the attitudes expressed in Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter"). I would venture to say (and it's pure speculation) that the earlier (medieval) use of brown or black or whatever for different religious orders may have some of the "non-worldly" flavor of the later puritans and the like. And perhaps, the colors were natural wool colors, and not dyed? But then, I'm rambling! --sue, going away now before she writes a book! ;o) Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > > Didn't black become the color for mourning clothes in a later century? > > Actually, you might be right, I know I read two references to black as a > mourning color in my literature course, but there's one I can't remember > where I saw it. I also thought that it was in later centuries. However, in > Dr Faustus by Marlowe, published in 1604, there is the following (last act, > last scene) > > > We'll give his mangled limbs due burial, > > And all the students clothed in mourning black > > Shall wait upon his heavy funeral. > > I think we have to make the difference that maybe il later centuries you > would never wear black unless you were in mourning, and in other centuries > you would also wear black when you were not in mourning. But this is highly > speculative. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 11:24:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDGOwpE021764 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:24:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDGOP4S029144; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:24:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDGOROP009324; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:24:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDGNZOP008875 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:23:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (syr-24-58-121-78.twcny.rr.com [24.58.121.78]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hBDGMdCr005907 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:22:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031213103354.00b7f5b0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:22:41 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031212135437.04884820@mail.frys.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20031212113336.01a9a720@postoffice8.mail.cornell .edu> <005401c3c0c9$f6eecaf0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> <00c001c3c08c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hey there... nope, not hassled, I do like a good meaty conversation. Now that I'm home and near my resources I can give you a better answer. Working backwards... QEI funeral - 1603 - There are references to black cloth draping the carriage that carried her funeral effigy, Also an image of her funeral cortege shows everyone in black. http://www.kwantlen.bc.ca/~donna/sca/flags/f012.html (a better one at http://tudorhistory.org/elizabeth/funeral.jpg) Moving backwards in time... to the death of Jane Seymour... in 1537 King Henry wore black until well into 1538. Back still further... The funeral of Phillip the Good in 1404 Records of the funeral show that these were sixty official mourners all donned in black, and at one stop along the route -Dijon- the cortege was met by 100 burgesses and 100 poor men, all dressed in black. Vol.33 Essays in History "The Funeral of Duke Phillip the Good" by Edward A Tabri. And churches along the route were clothed in black as the Dukes body made it's way to its final resting place. In St. Donation the nave and the choir of the church were covered in a variety of black cloths. And the chief mourner and heir of Duke Phillip the Good provided 400 men to be dresses in black at his expense. And their only connection to the Duke was to hold torches along the funeral route. A cloth of gold, lined in black satin covered the coffin. A little further back... After the death of his father the late 1300's Philip the Good "spent the rest of his life almost exclusively dressed in black" Looking back to the 11th century - the death of Edward the Confessor is recorded on the Bayeux Tapestry - here the body is shown dressed in black- more accurately what might have been black. The members of the funeral procession however, are not. Like I said I'm still looking into this topic. But it's proving fascniating. Also, an area of particular interest is the division between west and east. Things are looking wonderfully muddled in Eastern Europe. More later. Mari >OK, so some people wore black for mourning as early as the 13th century >(and I do believe you when you say that you can document this). But when >did the idea that black necessarily meant mourning begin in Europe? And >did it mean that all over Europe, or just in some countries or circumstances? > >In Spain, in the Renaissance, black seems very common for dresses and >men's garments, as it does for the long robes for scholars and older men >in the Germanies at the same time. Did this necessarily indicate >mourning? Does the fact that most Catholic and Anglican priests wear >black indicate mourning? How about black men's suits in the mid >1800s? Were there periods when wearing black meant mourning in some >circumstances and not in others? Also, when did the wearing of black >cease to mean mourning (and I don't mean today's Goths)? > >I'm not just hassling you, I'd really like to know this. Mari Stewart, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 11:36:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDGalpE021814 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:36:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDGaM4S029924; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:36:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDGaNOP014710; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:36:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDGZGOP014061 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:35:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20031213163509014003mgire>; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:35:09 +0000 Message-ID: <3FDB3FBD.6050907@fenris.net> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:35:09 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: dirndl References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thanks! liz Joan Broneske wrote: >The number is 8448 > > > >-----Original Message----- >Behalf Of Elizabeth Young > >Joan Broneske wrote: > > > >>I did happen to locate the Burda patterns on line and found the dirndl >>pattern. >> >> >> >What is the pattern number for the Burda dirndl? > >liz young > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 12:28:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDHSMpE022376 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:28:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDHRR4S002851; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:27:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDHRROP036870; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:27:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDHRPOP036852 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:27:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lcjfe.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.77.238] helo=[209.86.74.248]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AVDY1-0002lS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:27:22 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200312131624.hBDGNlOR009002@net.indra.com> References: <200312131624.hBDGNlOR009002@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:27:02 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: LOTR Cloaks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 9:24 AM -0700 12/13/03, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >You're in luck. The one the artist/author used was an 8-shaft loom with >a 60" reed; reed has 10 dents/inch. Fabric was woven @ 10 epi for warp >and 10 ppi for weft. Thanks--mag just got here :-) The movie cloth was woven on a 16 shaft loom....and with a much finer sett...But I bet the yarn is available from the shop :-) For only money. So now to see just when multi-multi-multi harness shadow weaves were first used...With my luck they are a modern weaving revival confection and I bet the cloaks don't shed rain and wind worth a d*mn, because they are so pretty (that is also the way my luck runs...) Ta Carol, now to compare sizing for singles warp.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 12:50:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDHoMpE022610 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:50:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDHnq4S004054; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:49:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDHnrOP046542; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:49:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDHnoOP046486 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:49:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.113.2cb77c4a (15876) for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:49:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d25.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.166]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID73-3e043fdb5132390; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:49:39 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:49:38 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4E93F093.0E6CEA81.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Black was: a segue X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/13/2003 3:42:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: > The Elizabeth de Valois one is almost certainly in mourning as it was > painted shortly before her death, if not just after as she > dies within six > months of her huband. I may be confused a little bit. It is my understanding that Elizabeth (Elisabeth de) Valois, aka, Isabella of Spain, died in 1568. She was married to King Philip II of Spain, his third wife, and bore him 2 at least 2 beautiful daughters. Their marriage ushered in peace between Spain and France, hence earning her the moniker, "Queen of Peace". It is also my understanding that she died shortly after giving birth. After her death, he then marries Anne of Austria, and doesn't die until well after 1588 (Spanish Armada years). Is my history confused, or did I misinterpret what was Michaela wrote? Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 12:54:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDHsapE022626 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:54:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDHs84S004292; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:54:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDHsAOP048394; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:54:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDHs8OP048329 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:54:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.72.35bbf4cb (15900) for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:53:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d20.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.161]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID93-3e1c3fdb5233160; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:53:55 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:53:55 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <347D9A49.18A22436.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Michaela: Which black gown are we referring to? There are two portraits of Elisabeth de Valois wearing gorgeous black gowns. This is the one I'm interested in reproducing: http://www.mystudios.com/women/abcde/sofonisba_valois.html and here's the second: http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/IsabeldeValois02.jpg Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 12:57:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDHvopE022649 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:57:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDHvE4S004440; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:57:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDHvGOP049758; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:57:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDHvEOP049690 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:57:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.4f.383856e5 (16035) for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:57:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d23.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.164]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID102-3ea33fdb52ee1ec; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:57:02 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:57:02 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2003C319.79B5F18F.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/13/2003 11:22:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, ms154@cornell.edu writes: > QEI funeral - 1603 - There are references to black cloth draping the > carriage that carried her funeral effigy, Also an image of her funeral > cortege shows everyone in > black. > http://www.kwantlen.bc.ca/~donna/sca/flags/f012.html (a better > one at http://tudorhistory.org/elizabeth/funeral.jpg) I believe what the gentlemen here are wearing are Robes of State. I could be wrong. Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 14:03:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDJ3KpE023424 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:03:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDJ2j4S008084; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:02:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDJ2lOP080109; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:02:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBDJ1jOP079459 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:01:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031213190141.12787.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.78.211.128] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:01:41 PST Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:01:41 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Black was: a segue To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4E93F093.0E6CEA81.3739C57F@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com It was my understanding from the book--Sofonisba Anguissola( who was Court Painter and Lady in Wating to Isabella at the Spanish court) that Isabella , 3rd wife of Phillip II of Spain actually died after complications of a miscarriage of a 3rd child. Phillip lived on to take a 4th wife, Anne of Denmark--who was a kindly and devoted stepmother to the little 2 little Princesses left behind. Albra MysticsLady9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/13/2003 3:42:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: > The Elizabeth de Valois one is almost certainly in mourning as it was > painted shortly before her death, if not just after as she > dies within six > months of her huband. I may be confused a little bit. It is my understanding that Elizabeth (Elisabeth de) Valois, aka, Isabella of Spain, died in 1568. She was married to King Philip II of Spain, his third wife, and bore him 2 at least 2 beautiful daughters. Their marriage ushered in peace between Spain and France, hence earning her the moniker, "Queen of Peace". It is also my understanding that she died shortly after giving birth. After her death, he then marries Anne of Austria, and doesn't die until well after 1588 (Spanish Armada years). Is my history confused, or did I misinterpret what was Michaela wrote? Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 14:39:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDJdUpE023665 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:39:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDJd14S010224; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDJd3OP044963; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:39:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDJcxOP044945 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:39:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m45.in-tch.com [216.166.191.45]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBDJHM711975 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:17:22 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FDB6B74.B64D8BBB@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:41:40 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: LOTR Cloaks References: <200312131624.hBDGNlOR009002@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Yeah. I know zippo about the history of shadow weaves, although it occurs to me that I'm on a couple of weaving lists, and they might know. I do think it's really cool, though. I've got a friend with a 50th birthday coming up, and I'm going to modify the pattern for the cloaks (narrower warp, fewer colors, so the shadow patterns show better), and make her either a scarf or a shawl. You'll notice, when you read through the article a couple of times, that the author talks about her variations from the originals (such as her color range). What I particularly liked, I guess, was that it was *her* version of what she thought the fellowship cloaks would have looked like, which is part of the great fun of fantasy clothing/costuming. I'd imagine, given the relative coarseness of her weave that even with a little fulling, the cloaks wouldn't be very wind or water resistant. And they're not lined (per the movie, IIRC). They sure look cool, though. Personally, I'm in *love* with the architecture for the Rohan city. All that luscious Norse stuff and knotwork....*sigh* --sue fastusminimus wrote: > > At 9:24 AM -0700 12/13/03, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > >You're in luck. The one the artist/author used was an 8-shaft loom with > >a 60" reed; reed has 10 dents/inch. Fabric was woven @ 10 epi for warp > >and 10 ppi for weft. > > Thanks--mag just got here :-) The movie cloth was woven on a 16 shaft > loom....and with a much finer sett...But I bet the yarn is available > from the shop :-) For only money. > So now to see just when multi-multi-multi harness shadow weaves were > first used...With my luck they are a modern weaving revival > confection and I bet the cloaks don't shed rain and wind worth a > d*mn, because they are so pretty (that is also the way my luck > runs...) > Ta > Carol, now to compare sizing for singles warp.... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 14:40:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDJeppE023686 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:40:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDJeM4S010273; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:40:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDJePOP045549; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:40:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDJdqOP045285 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:39:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from someone@eskimo.com) Received: from bently (c-67-161-103-121.client.comcast.net[67.161.103.121]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003121319394201100ih9k8e>; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:39:43 +0000 Message-ID: <00af01c3c1b1$1533e300$2a02a8c0@Belkin> From: "Pam and David" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031128.064310.1888.9.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] needlelace sources? Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:41:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I don't know about books or websites, but I can tell you there is a needlelace list: needlelacers@yahoogroups.com I'm sure they could help you out! Pam Dotson Everett, WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia J Ley" To: Cc: ; Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 6:40 AM Subject: [h-cost] needlelace sources? > Can anyone recommend some good books or websites for learning to do > needlelace? I am especially interested in it as it would have been used > in medieval or Renaissance times. Was it done in England in the 14th > century? How was it used? > > Now that I'm on a new drug therapy for the arthritis, my hands have > gotten much better and I've been wanting to try it for quite some time. > It is so beautiful! > > thanks! > > Arlys > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 16:47:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDLlmpE024415 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:47:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDLl94S017105; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:47:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDLl9OP001968; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:47:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail10.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDLl5OP001933 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail10.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBDMkpkC029986 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:46:51 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.62.105]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:46:50 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:46:31 -0500 Message-ID: <02c501c3c1c2$97ae3ae0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Black and What I've Done This Year X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Re: use of black in costume: Right now I'm taking notes from Hispanic Costume 1480-1530 and the most often mentioned colors are black, white, and crimson. There have been occasional references to green and one or two to gray and tawney, but so far it seems like Renaissance Spain stuck to these very basic colors, at least in the nobility, and so far there have been no specific references to black used in mourning - I guess it was just popular in that time and place. Suits me - colors like tawney tend to wash me out! Re: What I've Done This Year - coming late to this thread, but hopefully not too late! As usual I've not completed half the things I intended to, but still managed: 1) Black and green vinyl duster based on a style from the tv show "Farscape". There was a lot of piecing and I had to make the pattern first; the entire thing took about 2 months. Photos can be found at http://photos.yahoo.com/anotherthurman under the "Science Fiction Costumes" folder. 2) New corset from Drea's Corset Generator, with tabs. Another excuse to use Chinese brocade (not period, but then, when worn with other Elizabethan/Tudor gear it won't show!) 3) 2 partlets - one plain white, based on styles found at Drea's site and at the Renaissance Tailor, white linen. I'm working on another one from Margo's pattern, but I'm doing blackwork on it first so it isn't even cut out yet :/ 4) Chemise and halfway through the stays for a Regency dress I'm making for Costume Con. Progress has crawled due to busy schedule/lack of funds for materials, but I hope to finish it in January (Crosses fingers!) Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 17:08:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDM8apE024562 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:08:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDM824S018485; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDM85OP011045; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:08:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDM84OP011034 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:08:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-41-184.jps.net ([209.165.41.184] helo=[209.86.8.204]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AVHva-0004zv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:07:59 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FDB3D96.26FBD655@in-tch.com> References: <00c001c3c08 c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> <005401c3c0c9$f6eecaf0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> <3FDB3D96.26FBD655@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:10:24 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 9:25 AM -0700 12/13/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: >I would venture to say (and it's pure speculation) that the earlier >(medieval) use of brown or black or whatever for different religious >orders may have some of the "non-worldly" flavor of the later puritans >and the like. And perhaps, the colors were natural wool colors, and not >dyed? But then, I'm rambling! Yes, there are good documentary indications that several medieval religious Orders chose to wear garments of undyed wool, either white (the Cistercians, IIRC) or brown/black (Benedictines, Franciscans). You may be remembering this because I think we had a discussion about it on this list a few months ago. (Or was it another list? I can never keep track...:) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 18:35:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBDNZepE025103 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 18:35:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDNYu4S023401; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:34:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDNYxOP056276; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:34:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBDNYvOP056261 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:34:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a241.in-tch.com [66.62.107.41]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBDNDH714386 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:13:18 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FDBA2C0.98E9D24@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:37:36 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic References: <00c001c3c08 c$c079fb80$6ca176cb@michaela> <005401c3c0c9$f6eecaf0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> <3FDB3D96.26FBD655@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I think it was this list, and I *was* thinking of the prior discussion when I wrote it. So at least we're both on the same track! ;o) --sue Chris Laning wrote: > > At 9:25 AM -0700 12/13/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: > >I would venture to say (and it's pure speculation) that the earlier > >(medieval) use of brown or black or whatever for different religious > >orders may have some of the "non-worldly" flavor of the later puritans > >and the like. And perhaps, the colors were natural wool colors, and not > >dyed? But then, I'm rambling! > > Yes, there are good documentary indications that several medieval > religious Orders chose to wear garments of undyed wool, either white > (the Cistercians, IIRC) or brown/black (Benedictines, Franciscans). > You may be remembering this because I think we had a discussion about > it on this list a few months ago. (Or was it another list? I can > never keep track...:) > -- > _________________________________________________________ > O Chris Laning > | > + Davis, California > _________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 19:15:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBE0FIpE025332 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:15:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE0Ee4S025400; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:14:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE0EjOP073277; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:14:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE0EgOP073191 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:14:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p665-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.157] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AVJtt-00037v-00; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:14:22 +1300 Message-ID: <004701c3c1d7$2f725fa0$9dc2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031213190141.12787.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Black was: a segue Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:14:02 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Oops, I was mistaking the death of Carlos for that of his father;) She was intended to marry him but then was married to Philip (and then there's the opera based on the romatic version of their lives;).) I was also given the wrong date of the portrait which is the Sofonisba one with pearls. Which means it is unlikely she was in mourning, which means I can make it without worry;) Unless people know of a death in 1565 that would have affected her? And so I'm going to have fun using my documentation as they are all dressed fairly solidly in black;) Poor printer. And the search for the perfect velvet continues..... I need it finished by November next year so it's not that urgent;) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 19:17:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBE0HApE025348 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:17:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE0Gb4S025535; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:16:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE0GhOP074071; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:16:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE0GfOP074060 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:16:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBE0GYAA002703 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:16:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.203] (tnt-1-11.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.203]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBE0GMRI002615 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:16:32 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FDB39D4.BC2737FB@in-tch.com> References: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> <200312112207.36890.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FD95C11.B372A46@in-tch.com> <3FDB39D4.BC2737FB@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:08:22 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 9:09 AM -0700 12/13/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: >Heather Rose Jones wrote: >> >> At 11:11 PM -0700 12/11/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: >> >Hey, I didn't think of it from that angle! So...what projects have folks >> >actually *finished* this past year? >> >> *grin* Well, it's not costume-related, but this year I finally >> finished my PhD! (Only one more signature to go, and the deadline >> for turning it in is the 18th, so I'm still gnawing my knuckles to >> the bone.) Other than that .... Hmm, what _have_ I done. Nothing >> really big. More experiments with early medieval knee-length cloth >> hose. More fun doing doll-sized replicas of archaeological clothing. >> An everyday suit coat and vest based on mid/late 18th c. patterns. A >> new style of Migration Era shoe. >> >> Projects for the new year -- I really need to do the set of >> Elizabethans for my youngest brother that I promised him several >> years ago. (Oops, _more_ than several years. Not sure I want to >> calculate the precise number.) I've got enough thread spun to finish >> the starting warp for my Iron Age cloak, so I need to spin ahead for >> the weft so I won't have the upright loom tying up space in the >> living room too long. I'm now free of my self-imposed web-absence, >> and one of the things I want to get up is my working database of >> archaeological clothing. And I just might make some new clothes for > > myself .... >Oh, hey! That's awesome! You've been working on that for a while, now, >haven't you? "Dr. Jones," that sounds so cool! >What are you using to spin the yarn for your cloak? and what kind of >(I'm assuming) wool? Are you using singles, or are you plying it? >--sue, full of questions this morning > I've been working on the PhD since 1993, which is almost embarrassing to confess, but I was having _so_ much fun being a student that it took me a while to really accept that the point was to become not-a-student eventually. As with most bureaucratic processes, the tail end is almost anticlimactic: I turn in all my various paperwork and manuscripts this week and then in a month or two they send me a letter saying, "yup, it's official." If these things are timed correctly, one can consider the graduation ceremony to be a nice point of closure, but I went ahead and participated in the ceremony a year ago, on the mistaken assumption that I'd be able to finish it up that summer. So now I'm left with a whimper rather than a bang. Having had the family celebratory party after the graduation ceremony last year, I've still got very loose plans to do some sort of SCA celebratory party, but the plans will probably founder on the rock of not having an occasion until long after the fact and then feeling silly about it. My one certain "rite of passage" appointment is to go out to dinner at a very nice restaurant (current plans: Chez Panisse) with my friend Jan. (We started the program at the same time, did Celtic languages together, co-ran a couple of Celtic Studies conferences, and suffered through many of the same roadblocks ... although she gave it up after getting her Masters.) ObCostume: Although I purchased the cap and hood for my ceremony, I only rented the gown, because I want to make up a proper Scholars Gown in good fabric for any future occasions when I might have cause to wear one. (Even the purchase gowns are cheesy acetate.) I can't really imagine what those occasions might be, since I'm not staying in academia, but you never know. On the Cloak -- I'm spinning the thread with a drop spindle ... not for extra authenticity, but because I only wedge in spinning time while at SCA events, and I can get an entire spindle-full spun in a weekend while walking around doing other stuff, whereas if I were using a wheel, I'd never get anything done because I'd have to stay in one place. Besides, it's kind of fun to see people doing a double-take when they notice that I really am spinning _constantly_ -- including going up and kneeling in court. One hard part is keeping the thread relatively constant in size when the spinning takes years at significantly separated intervals. Mostly, I just aim for the finest thread I can consistently maintain without breakage, and I've been spinning long enough that I'm not significantly improving any more with such scattered practice, so it stays pretty constant. The impetus for this project was wanting to see what one of those spin-directional check patterns really looks like in real life (as opposed to carefully-lit photographs). So I'll be weaving singles to get the spin-direction effect. This is also the reason I'm spinning all the thread myself. If it were _possible_ to purchase thread that was otherwise identical but came in both S and Z, believe me, I'd already be wearing the cloak! So I'm doing an inch-wide tablet-woven starting border resulting in roughly 16 ends per inch. I haven't decided whether I want to try to do tablet-woven selvedges as I go along, too. Currently the thread is natural white, but I may contemplate dying it after the project is done. I dunno. I'll be doing some sort of twill -- maybe just a plain 2-2, but it's tempting to do some sort of lozenge twill just to break the monotony of the weaving a little. But I need to go back and check my sources and see if the spin-directional fabrics were ever done in fancy twills -- it might interfere with the optical effect, in which case I'd give it a miss. I did a test-piece a number of years ago -- about a 1 ft x 1 ft piece -- and the optical effect is clear, although subtle. The cloak will end up roughly 6x6 ft -- it's starting out a little larger because I'm going by thread-count rather than actual measurement and my 16 ends are just a smidge more than one inch. The spin-direction blocks will be one inch (or rather, 16 threads). The trick is going to be making long-term space in my living room for a warp-weighted loom, although I'm going to make it just a little "portable" by using water-filled plastic containers for the weights. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 19:27:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBE0RJpE025406 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:27:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE0Qt4S025967; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:26:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE0R1OP089686; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:27:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE0QxOP089662 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:26:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.c1.3a9dffb5 (16098) for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:26:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d23.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.164]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID112-3ee23fdbae431e0; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:26:43 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:26:43 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Black was: a segue MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3D4C63B1.7D81557E.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/13/2003 2:01:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: > Anne of Denmark Ahhhhh! Anne of Denmark. That would make more sense than Anne of Austria, now wouldn't it? LOL Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 13 19:31:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBE0VCpE025442 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:31:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE0Ud4S026120; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:30:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE0UiOP091107; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:30:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE0UgOP091071 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:30:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.d1.13670c7 (15864) for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:30:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d21.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.162]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID63-3df83fdbaf21322; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:30:25 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:30:25 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Black was: a segue MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <66044CF4.3325D905.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/13/2003 7:14:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: > And the search for the perfect velvet continues..... I need > it finished by > November next year so it's not that urgent;) Michaela: Since we're both interested in reproducing the same gown, and you're going to get a start on it well before I even get a chance to think about it, please keep us (me) apprised of your progress. I would be very interested in reading your dress diary on this gown, if you plan to keep one. Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 14 00:46:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBE5kgpE027090 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:46:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE5kD4S012090; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE5kFOP011387; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:46:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBE5kDOP011376 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:46:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AVP4t-0001oV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 21:46:03 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:46:11 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3c205$95d0cce0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Anyone out there near Nottingham or Lincoln Castle? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com If you are could you contact me off list.? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 14 11:48:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBEGmgpE009172 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:48:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBEGkg4S013339; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:46:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBEGkgOP035592; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:46:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail18.svr.pol.co.uk (mail18.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.67.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBEGkeOP035579 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:46:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hbgd103@soton.ac.uk) Received: from modem-3040.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.134.107.224] helo=soton.ac.uk) by mail18.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AVZMS-0007ZO-AN for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:44:52 +0000 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:48:28 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Black and What I've Done This Year Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Hilary Davidson To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <02c501c3c1c2$97ae3ae0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Message-Id: <578B34A6-2E55-11D8-809B-000A9567E116@soton.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 09:46 pm, A.Thurman wrote: > Re: use of black in costume: Right now I'm taking notes from Hispanic > Costume 1480-1530 and the most often mentioned colors are black, > white, and > crimson. There have been occasional references to green and one or two > to > gray and tawney, but so far it seems like Renaissance Spain stuck to > these > very basic colors, at least in the nobility, and so far there have > been no > specific references to black used in mourning - I guess it was just > popular > in that time and place. Most of the portraits of Elisabeth, Anne of Austria, Philip, and his sister Juana show them in black. As far as I know it was for sobriety, piety and lack of vanity, or supposed to represent those things. Very Catholic. Not sure how the luscious jewels fit into that world view. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 14 15:10:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBEKA3pE009902 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:10:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBEK8X4S026052; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:08:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBEK8kOP019298; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:08:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBEK8hOP019275 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:08:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lcitu.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.75.190] helo=[165.121.84.168]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AVcXR-0001V8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:08:25 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200312141900.hBEJ0OOR089883@net.indra.com> References: <200312141900.hBEJ0OOR089883@net.indra.com> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:08:19 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:LOTR cloaks, now shadow weave X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 12:00 PM -0700 12/14/03, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >Yeah. I know zippo about the history of shadow weaves, although it >occurs to me that I'm on a couple of weaving lists, and they might >know. I do think it's really cool, though. I've got a friend with a >50th birthday coming up, and I'm going to modify the pattern for the >cloaks (narrower warp, fewer colors, so the shadow patterns show >better), and make her either a scarf or a shawl. >You'll notice, when you read through the article a couple of times, that >the author talks about her variations from the originals (such as her >color range). What I particularly liked, I guess, was that it was *her* >version of what she thought the fellowship cloaks would have looked >like, which is part of the great fun of fantasy clothing/costuming. >I'd imagine, given the relative coarseness of her weave that even with a >little fulling, the cloaks wouldn't be very wind or water resistant. >And they're not lined (per the movie, IIRC). They sure look cool, >though. >Personally, I'm in *love* with the architecture for the Rohan city. All >that luscious Norse stuff and knotwork....*sigh* Sigh, I did a google and didn't find a site with history. It's a dance step, an fantasy gaming device and there are only a few books out on it....none of which I own...*sigh* I also liked her interpretation--it's neat to see other folks vision I'm thinking about a nice grey Coopworth, blended with darker & lighter fleece and spun very fine. Maybe do some very light color blending to make it "opally"... have about 4 colors....Yeah, right project #4782 Soooo are shawls period for late 18th century?? I know that the knitted ones seem to be right out, but what about woven ones? Ta Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 14 15:33:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBEKXYpE009994 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:33:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBEKX94S027648; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:33:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBEKXPOP029709; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:33:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBEKXNOP029688 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:33:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lcitu.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.75.190] helo=[165.121.84.168]) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AVcvJ-0007xh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:33:06 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200312141900.hBEJ0OOR089883@net.indra.com> References: <200312141900.hBEJ0OOR089883@net.indra.com> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:33:00 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] what projects are in the future.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com OK, so I found this site, with loverly info on how to weave cloth for period clothes....while cruisin for shadow weaves.... http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/articles/SAMPLES/btd_des4.gif for example I now have no future life this site is awesome!!!! Ta Carol, so many centuries, so little time! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 14 21:14:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBF2EYpE011558 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:14:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBF2Dg4S017937; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:13:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBF2DuOn082128; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:13:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBF2DrOo082101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:13:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBF2BgPX001636 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:11:42 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:11:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FDD190C.9050100@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:14:36 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] spin-directional check pattern/ Another new topic References: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> <200312112207.36890.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FD95C11.B372A46@in-tch.com> <3FDB39D4.BC2737FB@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Congratulations, Heather, on the PhD completion! Heather Rose Jones wrote: > I did a test-piece a number of years ago -- about a 1 ft x 1 ft piece -- > and the optical effect is clear, although subtle. Could you describe it for those of us who aren't familiar with it? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "We question whether 'all the king's horses and all the king's men' were capable of launching an appropriate medical intervention after Mr. Dumpty's unfortunate accident. What sort of EMS training and equipment did these first responders have?" -- Dr. Sarah Shea & Sarah Giles, in a paper for the annual silly edition of the Canadian Medical Association Journal _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 14 23:49:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBF4n7pE012041 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 23:49:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBF4mc4S028004; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:48:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBF4mvOn051012; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:48:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBF4msOn050999 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:48:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBF4mWAA007935 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:48:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.239] (tnt-1-47.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.239]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBF4mTRC007893 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:48:30 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FDD190C.9050100@thibault.org> References: <3FD87B50.A5E7B213@in-tch.com> <200312112207.36890.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3FD95C11.B372A46@in-tch.com> <3FDB39D4.BC2737FB@in-tch.com> <3FDD190C.9050100@thibault.org> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:24:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] spin-directional check pattern/ Another new topic Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 9:14 PM -0500 12/14/03, Cynthia Virtue wrote: >Heather Rose Jones wrote: >>I did a test-piece a number of years ago -- about a 1 ft x 1 ft >>piece -- and the optical effect is clear, although subtle. > >Could you describe it for those of us who aren't familiar with it? > I'm not sure I _can_ -- that's part of the problem. The simplest description is that you see the stripes/checks as "shaded" when viewed at the correct angle. And as the fabric moves, the visibilty and contrast of the two directions changes. It's sort of like the optical effect you get with monochrome damask weaves but much subtler. When these pieces are photographed for publications, they are very carefully and precisely lit so that you get maximum contrast, but they're generally photographed flat, so the cloth _looks_ like it simply has a color check. You don't experience the changing appearance. So having only seen photos before I started this project, I knew that I had no idea what it really looked like. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 15 07:36:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFCabpE017876 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:36:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFCa54S021188; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 05:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFCaNOn028679; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 05:36:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFCaMOn028638 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 05:36:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA1CABE6BE for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:35:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FDDAC00.4010008@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:41:36 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Victorian dress pictures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi, I have pictures!! :-) :-) http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html I wore the dress to a modern X-Mas party from the company where my husbands works. We got so many compliments on our clothing. He was wearing a fantasy costume inspired by Japanese anime. Normally his costume has wings but we left them at home. My dress still doesn't have sleeves. I just can't decide how I want them to look. Short puffy sleeves with some white lace or schort fitting sleeves with seperate longer sleeves for when it is cold and to make it more like a day dress..... What can I wear over the dress when I am outside?? Are there patterns online for making such a thing???? I want to make a bonnet to wear outside. I have a simp pattern with bonnet can I use that?? toooo many questions...... And less than a week to finish it :-) . Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 15 07:48:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFCmrpE017930 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:48:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFCmS4S021842; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 05:48:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFCmrOn033047; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 05:48:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFCmoOn032993 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 05:48:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from your1p37d9kihs ([213.78.161.236]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id APP55274; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:48:17 GMT Message-ID: <233501c3c309$b4ae7540$98614ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FDDAC00.4010008@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian dress pictures Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:48:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >What can I wear over the dress when I am outside?? A Mantel ? >Are there patterns online for making such a thing???? I think so on Hope's siter I thought I saw one http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/godey/fashion/di.html Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 15 08:28:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFDSTpE018153 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:28:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFDS44S023561; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:28:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFDSQOn048070; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:28:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFDSOOn048047 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:28:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from your1p37d9kihs ([213.78.161.236]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id APP63237; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:27:52 GMT Message-ID: <23be01c3c30f$3d7bdfc0$98614ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:27:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] British Land Army 1940s X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Does anyone happen to have any info on patterns for Land army uniforms Please ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 15 08:31:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFDVLpE018165 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:31:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFDUv4S023723; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:30:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFDVNOn049306; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:31:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBFDVKOn049254 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:31:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rachel_holliday@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20031215133049.46428.qmail@web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.157.217.73] by web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:30:49 GMT Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:30:49 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan wigs To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200312122002.hBCK2oP25515@gw.retro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm still persuing the wig front at the moment, largely becuase it will give me greater flexibility and that is essential considering the nature of some of our sponsors. I'd still really love to know whether anything other than human hair was used at the time. Rachel ===== Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk ________________________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 15 09:22:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFEMJpE018541 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:22:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFELh4S026478; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:21:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFEM8On070233; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:22:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFEM6On070217 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:22:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.118] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A185997600BC; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:13:25 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01c3c317$68d41720$765183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <578B34A6-2E55-11D8-809B-000A9567E116@soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Black and What I've Done This Year Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:26:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hilary, you will find a nice discussion of 'the meaning if black' including this time period, in chapter Five of "Seeing through Clothes" Anne Hollander,Viking Press,1978. Her theory presentation is rather involved as to quote her here. However with the biblio and other chapter notes, I think you might have an intriguing start for your own elucidation as to how and why 'black as color choice is woven into the history of costume. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hilary Davidson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Black and What I've Done This Year > > On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 09:46 pm, A.Thurman wrote: > > > Re: use of black in costume: Right now I'm taking notes from Hispanic > > Costume 1480-1530 and the most often mentioned colors are black, > > white, and > > crimson. There have been occasional references to green and one or two > > to > > gray and tawney, but so far it seems like Renaissance Spain stuck to > > these > > very basic colors, at least in the nobility, and so far there have > > been no > > specific references to black used in mourning - I guess it was just > > popular > > in that time and place. > > Most of the portraits of Elisabeth, Anne of Austria, Philip, and his > sister Juana show them in black. As far as I know it was for sobriety, > piety and lack of vanity, or supposed to represent those things. Very > Catholic. Not sure how the luscious jewels fit into that world view. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 15 09:25:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFEPcpE018580 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:25:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFEPD4S026658; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:25:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFEPdOn071619; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:25:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9402.mail.yahoo.com (web9402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBFEPcOn071609 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:25:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031215142511.64984.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:25:11 PST Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:25:11 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian dress pictures To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FDDAC00.4010008@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com What beautiful dress---and a great color on you, Deredere! Albra Deredere Galbraith wrote: Hi, I have pictures!! :-) :-) http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html I wore the dress to a modern X-Mas party from the company where my husbands works. We got so many compliments on our clothing. He was wearing a fantasy costume inspired by Japanese anime. Normally his costume has wings but we left them at home. My dress still doesn't have sleeves. I just can't decide how I want them to look. Short puffy sleeves with some white lace or schort fitting sleeves with seperate longer sleeves for when it is cold and to make it more like a day dress..... What can I wear over the dress when I am outside?? Are there patterns online for making such a thing???? I want to make a bonnet to wear outside. I have a simp pattern with bonnet can I use that?? toooo many questions...... And less than a week to finish it :-) . Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 15 09:41:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFEfrpE018870 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:41:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFEfP4S027558; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:41:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFEfoOn079179; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:41:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBFEfmOn079127 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:41:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCiIqxsFK559MjQkYcIK2fk64nrg8m990Ew==">; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:40:34 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JHFUCXZR; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:40:34 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:45:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian dress pictures Message-ID: <20031215.084538.876.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-5 From: Karen R Bergquist Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I love the color! It looks so elegant too. Simplicity has a pattern out for a mantle that goes along with their US Civil War collection as well as a set of headcoverings (more than just hats), you might check out their online site. Please keep us posted on your progress. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 15 10:56:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFFuEpE019871 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:56:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFFtg4S003664; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:55:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFFu3On019996; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:56:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFFu1On019979 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:56:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810+JAGae91741)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA16983 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:55:34 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:55:33 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <3FDDAC00.4010008@kabelfoon.nl> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Doll pattern book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Need a gift or are you looking for a book of doll clothes patterns to dress antique reproduction and modern dolls in fashions from the late Victorian era to 1950? Check out the JoAnn's Fabrics and Crafts near you and bring the 50% off coupon with you. Yesterday, I found a book : The Doll Clothing Collection by Christina Harris. Full price is $24.95 for the 130+page paperback book. The dolls modelling the outfits range from 17"-24" tall. 15 patterns are included plus underwear, shoes, and hat patterns. Although the cut is modern, this is a good introduction to making historic clothing for dolls, especially for the novice sewer. Harris includes guidence on fabrics and colors for a good historic look, and several of the patterns are for boy dolls. Patterns range from the classic sailor outfits for both boys and girls, to a turn of the (19th to 20th)motoring outfit and flapper outfit(not the usual fringe fest, but an earlier 20's party dress). The 50's poodle skirt pattern includes a pattern for the "poodle", even. A bonus is a "box" for each pattern's directions that gives a picture and instructions to how to alter the pattern for a different look. Lots of color illustrations. The author is British, but the terminology is pretty easy to figure out for us Yanks. The patterns do not include seamlines(because you will have to alter them to fit your particular doll, anyway)and British "balance marks" are used instead of American "notches." Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 15 12:38:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFHcbpE021165 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:38:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFHbt4S016192; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:37:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFHcHOn094983; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:38:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFHcDOn094869 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:38:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 467323 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:37:39 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:37:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031213103354.00b7f5b0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com This is really interesting! I suddenly wondered, how far back does this go in church history? In my Armenian Orthodox church, the alter is closed off with a purple or black curtain during Lent and no one sees it during this time of mourning until Easter morning. The usual curtain is deep burgundy, at least in my church. Is it the same in other churches? LynnD On 12/13/03 8:22 AM, "Mari Stewart" wrote: > > Hey there... nope, not hassled, I do like a good meaty conversation. > > Now that I'm home and near my resources I can give you a better answer. > > Working backwards... > > QEI funeral - 1603 - There are references to black cloth draping the > carriage that carried her funeral effigy, Also an image of her funeral > cortege shows everyone in > black. http://www.kwantlen.bc.ca/~donna/sca/flags/f012.html (a better > one at http://tudorhistory.org/elizabeth/funeral.jpg) > > Moving backwards in time... to the death of Jane Seymour... in 1537 King > Henry wore black until well into 1538. > > Back still further... The funeral of Phillip the Good in 1404 > Records of the funeral show that these were sixty official mourners all > donned in black, and at one stop along the route -Dijon- the cortege was > met by 100 burgesses and 100 poor men, all dressed in black. Vol.33 > Essays in History "The Funeral of Duke Phillip the Good" by Edward A > Tabri. And churches along the route were clothed in black as the Dukes > body made it's way to its final resting place. In St. Donation the nave > and the choir of the church were covered in a variety of black cloths. And > the chief mourner and heir of Duke Phillip the Good provided 400 men to be > dresses in black at his expense. And their only connection to the Duke was > to hold torches along the funeral route. A cloth of gold, lined in black > satin covered the coffin. > > A little further back... After the death of his father the late 1300's > Philip the Good "spent the rest of his life almost exclusively dressed in > black" > > Looking back to the 11th century - the death of Edward the Confessor is > recorded on > the > Bayeux com/viking/museum/bt/bt.htm> > Tapestry - here the body is shown dressed in black- more accurately what > might have been black. The members of the funeral procession however, are > not. > > Like I said I'm still looking into this topic. But it's proving > fascniating. Also, an area of particular interest is the division > between west and east. Things are looking wonderfully muddled in Eastern > Europe. > > More later. > Mari > > >> OK, so some people wore black for mourning as early as the 13th century >> (and I do believe you when you say that you can document this). But when >> did the idea that black necessarily meant mourning begin in Europe? And >> did it mean that all over Europe, or just in some countries or circumstances? >> >> In Spain, in the Renaissance, black seems very common for dresses and >> men's garments, as it does for the long robes for scholars and older men >> in the Germanies at the same time. Did this necessarily indicate >> mourning? Does the fact that most Catholic and Anglican priests wear >> black indicate mourning? How about black men's suits in the mid >> 1800s? Were there periods when wearing black meant mourning in some >> circumstances and not in others? Also, when did the wearing of black >> cease to mean mourning (and I don't mean today's Goths)? >> >> I'm not just hassling you, I'd really like to know this. > > Mari Stewart, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 15 13:26:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFIQBpE021601 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:26:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFIPL4S021946; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:25:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFIPmOn031041; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:25:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFIPjOn030926 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:25:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.188.22d97b9f (3932) for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:25:04 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <188.22d97b9f.2d0f5680@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:25:04 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian dress pictures To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com BEAUTIFUL! You look fantastic. Very striking. A shawl is always an acceptable accessory for this period. "Dress" ones can be of fine wool or silk woven and embroidered with very intricate designs and fringed... or just all lace. If you make a bonnet please do not use any of the dress fabric on it! Don't make it, as we used to call it, "matchy-matchy". You want a different colored bonnet trimmed with flowers or ribbons that match the dress, but not the bonnet itself. Imagine a rich dark blue or even emerald green or a dark beige covered in red flowers. Then these colors can be used in your fur lined mantel! :-P Have fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 15 14:24:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFJOfpE021896 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:24:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFJNi4S028680; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:23:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFJO6On074380; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:24:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFJO4On074353 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:24:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.117] (pm7-117.eos.net [205.133.149.117]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFJNWc2010523 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:23:32 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:24:37 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312151900.hBFJ0eOo056951@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: lent and mourning X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Lynn: I am not familiar with liturgical colors in the Armenian Orthodox Church, but in the Roman Catholic Church the liturgical color for Lent is a sort of burgundy purple, as opposed to the African Violet/grapey purple that is the color for Advent. Both are considered times of preparation -- joyful preparation for Advent, and somber (but not mourning) preparation for Lent. It's a little hard to tell, because the priests tend to pick their own preferred color of purple rather than going with the "liturgical" one. The other liturgical colors, for anyone interested, are white (or gold) for celebrations, red for martyrs and Pentecost (memory aid: fire and blood), and green for "ordinary" time, which is all the rest of the time. Apparently black was once used at funerals, but now the funeral color is white. I have been told that blue is an alternate color for Advent in the Episcopal/Anglican Church, but I don't know for sure. We don't close off the altar, but the altar decorations and vestments are the appropriate colors. I don't think the color for Lent has anything to do with mourning colors, but I will have to check that out . . . Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 15 17:04:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFM40A2002276 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:04:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFJti4S002197; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:55:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFJuBOn097269; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:56:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from providenceday.org (treebeard.providenceday.org [66.193.73.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFJu9On097188 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:56:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from grace.morris@providenceday.org) Received: from [172.20.1.3] (HELO providenceday.org) by providenceday.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.5) with ESMTP id 897796 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:56:45 -0500 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:58:12 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lent and mourning Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Grace Morris To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <28F0E84E-2F52-11D8-9896-000393D30BFA@providenceday.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Here's info about liturgical colors in the Anglican and Episcopal churches: http://www.episcopal-dso.org/pages/li_color.htm http://www.episcopal-dso.org/pages/int2003/gartig1.htm Eastern Orthodox: http://aggreen.net/vestment/liturgical_colors.html Roman Catholic: http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/19980101/ARTICLES/ CLR_VSLS.HTM The Byantine Tradition: (interesting stuff the different rites in this tradition) http://www.ofm-usa.com/AP/ByzLit.htm Grace/Jessamyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 15 17:04:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFM4bA2002279 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:04:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFKNg60004884; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:26:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFK5oOn004428; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:05:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBFK5nOn004361 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:05:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 467942 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:05:14 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:05:13 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lent and mourning From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On 12/15/03 11:24 AM, "Gail & Scott Finke" wrote: > > Lynn: > > I am not familiar with liturgical colors in the Armenian Orthodox Church, > but in the Roman Catholic Church the liturgical color for Lent is a sort of > burgundy purple, as opposed to the African Violet/grapey purple that is the > color for Advent. Both are considered times of preparation -- joyful > preparation for Advent, and somber (but not mourning) preparation for Lent. > It's a little hard to tell, because the priests tend to pick their own > preferred color of purple rather than going with the "liturgical" one. > Yes, burgundy purple, not grape purple, but definitely a very deep purple, unlike the usual burgundy curtain. And I thought it was for mourning, but that could have simply been my young mind connecting the 'sad' time of lent when I had to give something up, mourning and the purple of the curtain. And Armenian Orthodox, Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox are very much the same except we don't get to have the beautiful Byzantine icons the other Eastern churches have. > The other liturgical colors, for anyone interested, are white (or gold) for > celebrations, red for martyrs and Pentecost (memory aid: fire and blood), > and green for "ordinary" time, which is all the rest of the time. Apparently > black was once used at funerals, but now the funeral color is white. I have > been told that blue is an alternate color for Advent in the > Episcopal/Anglican Church, but I don't know for sure. We don't close off the > altar, but the altar decorations and vestments are the appropriate colors. > Now that you mention it, I DO remember that the curtain was a white satin with gold crosses for Easter and Epiphany rather than the velvet curtains of the rest of the year. > I don't think the color for Lent has anything to do with mourning colors, > but I will have to check that out . . . > > Gail Finke > Thanks, Gail, for the info. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 02:18:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBG7IXA2011594 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 02:18:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBG7Hn4S020970; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 00:17:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBG7IJOn064456; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 00:18:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBG7IGOn064403 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 00:18:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AF755F60096; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 01:08:37 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AF7246D0188; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 01:08:34 -0600 Message-ID: <02ec01c3c3a4$867e8fc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 02:16:28 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A New Tradition X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I thought we could start a new holiday tradition on h-costume. So many of us have been around so long that we are like family. Some people are new and we would like to meet you. Maybe every year around this time, we can send a link of our "in-person" family to share with our "online family." You can share a link to your family webpage or an online image of your family. And by all means if you have a photo of you meeting someone from h-costume, please share that too. Please don't send your photo through h-costume email list because it doesn't support attachments or html embedded photos. To break the water, I will start first... here is a link to our annual family photo: http://www.costumegallery.com/family1sm72.jpg Daniel was working on Thanksgiving Day when we took our family portrait. So we took the photo in front of our family photo wall and you can see Daniel in old family photos. Kids ages: Katie (12), Sam (16), Pat (18), Andy (20), Daniel (22), & Ben (27). Happy, Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 05:27:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGARnA2010026 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 05:27:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGARI4S028816; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 03:27:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGARpOn035855; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 03:27:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGARoOn035847 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 03:27:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-39-192.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.39.192]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGARB6s008136 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 04:27:11 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 02:27:05 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition In-Reply-To: <02ec01c3c3a4$867e8fc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >To break the water, I will start first... here is a link to our annual >family photo: >http://www.costumegallery.com/family1sm72.jpg >Daniel was working on Thanksgiving Day when we took our family portrait. So >we took the photo in front of our family photo wall and you can see Daniel >in old family photos. > >Kids ages: Katie (12), Sam (16), Pat (18), Andy (20), Daniel (22), >& Ben (27). I wish I had family so I could participate. Xmas is a lonely time of year for some of us. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 05:33:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGAXuA2010058 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 05:33:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGAXM4S029063; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 03:33:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGAXxOn038458; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 03:33:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGAXvOn038415 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 03:33:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.179]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CBBDA262CA1 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:33:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001a01c3c3c0$095776d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:33:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Victorian dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Dear Deredere I went to your website http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html And had a look on your Victorian dress. Congratulations, very nice Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 08:24:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGDOOA2010742 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:24:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGDK74S008885; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 06:20:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGDKgOn006571; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 06:20:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail18.svr.pol.co.uk (mail18.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.67.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGDKHOn006295 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 06:20:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hbgd103@soton.ac.uk) Received: from modem-2160.giraffe.dialup.pol.co.uk ([81.78.88.112] helo=soton.ac.uk) by mail18.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AWF5K-0001AC-6o for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:17:58 +0000 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:00:03 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Black and What I've Done This Year Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Hilary Davidson To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <000a01c3c317$68d41720$765183d1@rmitchellras> Message-Id: <458A2CAE-2F39-11D8-B4EE-000A9567E116@soton.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thanks Kathleen! On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 02:26 pm, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Hilary, you will find a nice discussion of 'the meaning if black' > including > this time period, in chapter Five of "Seeing through Clothes" Anne > Hollander,Viking Press,1978. Her theory presentation is rather > involved as > to quote her here. However with the biblio and other chapter notes, I > think > you might have an intriguing start for your own elucidation as to how > and > why 'black as color choice is woven into the history of costume. > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hilary Davidson" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 11:48 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Black and What I've Done This Year > > >> >> On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 09:46 pm, A.Thurman wrote: >> >>> Re: use of black in costume: Right now I'm taking notes from Hispanic >>> Costume 1480-1530 and the most often mentioned colors are black, >>> white, and >>> crimson. There have been occasional references to green and one or >>> two >>> to >>> gray and tawney, but so far it seems like Renaissance Spain stuck to >>> these >>> very basic colors, at least in the nobility, and so far there have >>> been no >>> specific references to black used in mourning - I guess it was just >>> popular >>> in that time and place. >> >> Most of the portraits of Elisabeth, Anne of Austria, Philip, and his >> sister Juana show them in black. As far as I know it was for sobriety, >> piety and lack of vanity, or supposed to represent those things. Very >> Catholic. Not sure how the luscious jewels fit into that world view. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 09:01:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGE1EA2010888 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:01:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGDwp4S011160; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 06:58:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGDxOOn024138; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 06:59:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGDxNOn024114 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 06:59:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-83-213-172.asm.bellsouth.net [65.83.213.172]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBGDwgWJ005977 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:58:42 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c3c3dc$b70d00d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <02ec01c3c3a4$867e8fc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:58:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com What a lovely family you have, Penny!!! I have heard you talk so often about different happenings with your children and it is great to be able to put faces with the stories and names. I also think this is a wonderful idea. As one of the newer people on the list, I feel I have grown to know many of you (even if you haven't had the chance to really know me yet) and would love to have faces to go with your names. Also, I always enjoy seeing what a person really looks like... so rarely does it match what we have made up in our heads! So far the only person I have met on the list is Robin, who has been really wonderful! I hope to be able to meet more of you at Costume Con which is being held in my home town this year! My husband and I both hate to get our pictures taken, but if I can find a photo, I will send a link as well. Here is a link to a picture of our kids..... http://mostlymedieval.com/kids.htm Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 2:16 AM Subject: [h-cost] A New Tradition > I thought we could start a new holiday tradition on h-costume. So many of > us have been around so long that we are like family. Some people are new > and we would like to meet you. Maybe every year around this time, we can > send a link of our "in-person" family to share with our "online family." > You can share a link to your family webpage or an online image of your > family. And by all means if you have a photo of you meeting someone from > h-costume, please share that too. Please don't send your photo through > h-costume email list because it doesn't support attachments or html embedded > photos. > > To break the water, I will start first... here is a link to our annual > family photo: > http://www.costumegallery.com/family1sm72.jpg > Daniel was working on Thanksgiving Day when we took our family portrait. So > we took the photo in front of our family photo wall and you can see Daniel > in old family photos. > > Kids ages: Katie (12), Sam (16), Pat (18), Andy (20), Daniel (22), > & Ben (27). > > Happy, Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 09:04:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGE4iA2010906 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:04:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGE464S011552; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:04:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGE4iOn026823; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:04:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGE4dOn026742 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:04:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hBGE5xA25786.; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:06:00 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:03:58 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:03:41 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I've not heard of the altar being curtained off, but in some Anglican churches it is stripped during the Maundy Thursday service and left as a bare table until it is dressed for Easter morning. Apparently this is an ancient tradition. >>> LDownward@chori.org 15/12/03 17:37:39 >>> This is really interesting! I suddenly wondered, how far back does this go in church history? In my Armenian Orthodox church, the alter is closed off with a purple or black curtain during Lent and no one sees it during this time of mourning until Easter morning. The usual curtain is deep burgundy, at least in my church. Is it the same in other churches? LynnD Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 09:35:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGEZdA2011965 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:35:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGEZ84S013566; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:35:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGEZkOn041632; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:35:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGEZhOn041609 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:35:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a245.in-tch.com [66.62.107.45]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBGEDT723492 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:13:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FDF18BD.1780B581@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:37:49 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition References: <02ec01c3c3a4$867e8fc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com How fun, Penny! You've got a great looking family, and such a handsome husband! --Sue, who might have a family picture after Christmas, but doesn't now :( Penny Ladnier wrote: > > I thought we could start a new holiday tradition on h-costume. So many of > us have been around so long that we are like family. Some people are new > and we would like to meet you. Maybe every year around this time, we can > send a link of our "in-person" family to share with our "online family." > You can share a link to your family webpage or an online image of your > family. And by all means if you have a photo of you meeting someone from > h-costume, please share that too. Please don't send your photo through > h-costume email list because it doesn't support attachments or html embedded > photos. > > To break the water, I will start first... here is a link to our annual > family photo: > http://www.costumegallery.com/family1sm72.jpg > Daniel was working on Thanksgiving Day when we took our family portrait. So > we took the photo in front of our family photo wall and you can see Daniel > in old family photos. > > Kids ages: Katie (12), Sam (16), Pat (18), Andy (20), Daniel (22), > & Ben (27). > > Happy, Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 09:38:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGEcrA2011989 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:38:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGEcN4S013851; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:38:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGEd2On043323; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:39:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGEd0On043276 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:39:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a245.in-tch.com [66.62.107.45]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBGEGk725121 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:16:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FDF1982.2B52085@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:41:06 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition References: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com You bet it is! I live alone, too, although I've got a brother and sister who both live a *long* way away. What about a picture of you, though? --sue Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >To break the water, I will start first... here is a link to our annual > >family photo: > >http://www.costumegallery.com/family1sm72.jpg > >Daniel was working on Thanksgiving Day when we took our family portrait. So > >we took the photo in front of our family photo wall and you can see Daniel > >in old family photos. > > > >Kids ages: Katie (12), Sam (16), Pat (18), Andy (20), Daniel (22), > >& Ben (27). > > I wish I had family so I could participate. Xmas is a lonely time of year > for some of us. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 09:44:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGEiTA2012052 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:44:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGEi14S014303; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGEieOn046340; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:44:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGEiUOn046175 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:44:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Gia_Gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.118 ([204.127.197.118]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <200312161443370140016g75e>; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:43:37 +0000 Received: from [128.95.168.90] by 204.127.197.118; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:43:37 +0000 From: Gia_Gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:43:37 +0000 Message-Id: <121620031443.10858.3447@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 27 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: R2lhX0dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Carolyn, then send a picture of yourself to the rest of us, your H-Costume family. Even though I come *from* a large family, none of my family of siblings have understood my passion for sewing or costuming; thus I *feel* like an orphan. H-costume and others who love me as I am, being nutty and cuckoo about anything textile, fiber, sewing "related". See? We *are* 'related' (grin) My spouse is great with doing scans and etc for this kind of thing, so as soon as I get our pictures back from the photographer, we'll get these out to you all. Hugs and many happy holidays to you all! Gia/Giacinta > > >To break the water, I will start first... here is a link to our annual > >family photo: > >http://www.costumegallery.com/family1sm72.jpg > >Daniel was working on Thanksgiving Day when we took our family portrait. So > >we took the photo in front of our family photo wall and you can see Daniel > >in old family photos. > > > >Kids ages: Katie (12), Sam (16), Pat (18), Andy (20), Daniel (22), > >& Ben (27). > > I wish I had family so I could participate. Xmas is a lonely time of year > for some of us. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 09:58:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGEwlA2012165 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:58:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGEwA4S015324; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:58:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGEwmOn053882; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:58:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGEwjOn053826 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:58:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hBGF07A00887.; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:00:07 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:58:05 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:57:37 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I'm STILL waiting for our music group's website to get off the ground so I can direct people to some pictures of me online. It's been in the pipeline for a year and more. I'm afraid I haven't any other means of making pictures available. I've met Stevie, Jean Waddie, Nicole K. and former listmembers Henk and Teddy. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 10:49:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGFndA2012301 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:49:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGFn04S019864; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGFnZOn086549; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:49:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web21407.mail.yahoo.com (web21407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBGFnXOn086515 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:49:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031216154853.95526.qmail@web21407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.82.36.102] by web21407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:48:53 PST Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:48:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <121620031443.10858.3447@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com --- Gia_Gavino@comcast.net wrote: > My spouse is great with doing scans and etc for this > kind of thing, so as soon as I get our pictures back > from the photographer, we'll get these out to you > all. Gia, are you the same who recently married Rauthufr at Autumn War this year? If so, I have some digital pix of the ceremony for you. (and good to see you here!) Angharat __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 10:50:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGFoJA2012304 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:50:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGFnh4S019941; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGFoNOn087100; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:50:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGFoKOn087022 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:50:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hBGFnZU27825 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:49:35 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:56:17 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <02ec01c3c3a4$867e8fc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Message-Id: <6289C66B-2FE0-11D8-9D9E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Happy Holidays, everyone!! This is a picture of me and me daughter taken a couple weeks ago at the Feast of Epimetheus. http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/EPIMETHEUS/SofiaandNatali. Althea On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 11:16 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: > I thought we could start a new holiday tradition on h-costume. So > many of > us have been around so long that we are like family. Some people are > new > and we would like to meet you. Maybe every year around this time, we > can > send a link of our "in-person" family to share with our "online > family." > You can share a link to your family webpage or an online image of your > family. And by all means if you have a photo of you meeting someone > from > h-costume, please share that too. Please don't send your photo through > h-costume email list because it doesn't support attachments or html > embedded > photos. > > To break the water, I will start first... here is a link to our annual > family photo: > http://www.costumegallery.com/family1sm72.jpg > Daniel was working on Thanksgiving Day when we took our family > portrait. So > we took the photo in front of our family photo wall and you can see > Daniel > in old family photos. > > Kids ages: Katie (12), Sam (16), Pat (18), Andy (20), Daniel (22), > & Ben (27). > > Happy, Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 11:06:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGG6aA2012349 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:06:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGG5w4S021962; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGG6bOn098417; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:06:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBGG6ZOn098403 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:06:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031216160554.59065.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:05:54 PST Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:05:54 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001101c3c3dc$b70d00d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Very cute 'Kids' you have Teena:) do you ever try dressing them for the 'Holidays'? Albra (who tried to get her cat, Bella, to sit still with reindeer antlers and elizabethean ruff--for the family holiday pic----to no avail) Teena Paradise wrote: What a lovely family you have, Penny!!! I have heard you talk so often about different happenings with your children and it is great to be able to put faces with the stories and names. I also think this is a wonderful idea. As one of the newer people on the list, I feel I have grown to know many of you (even if you haven't had the chance to really know me yet) and would love to have faces to go with your names. Also, I always enjoy seeing what a person really looks like... so rarely does it match what we have made up in our heads! So far the only person I have met on the list is Robin, who has been really wonderful! I hope to be able to meet more of you at Costume Con which is being held in my home town this year! My husband and I both hate to get our pictures taken, but if I can find a photo, I will send a link as well. Here is a link to a picture of our kids..... http://mostlymedieval.com/kids.htm Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 2:16 AM Subject: [h-cost] A New Tradition > I thought we could start a new holiday tradition on h-costume. So many of > us have been around so long that we are like family. Some people are new > and we would like to meet you. Maybe every year around this time, we can > send a link of our "in-person" family to share with our "online family." > You can share a link to your family webpage or an online image of your > family. And by all means if you have a photo of you meeting someone from > h-costume, please share that too. Please don't send your photo through > h-costume email list because it doesn't support attachments or html embedded > photos. > > To break the water, I will start first... here is a link to our annual > family photo: > http://www.costumegallery.com/family1sm72.jpg > Daniel was working on Thanksgiving Day when we took our family portrait. So > we took the photo in front of our family photo wall and you can see Daniel > in old family photos. > > Kids ages: Katie (12), Sam (16), Pat (18), Andy (20), Daniel (22), > & Ben (27). > > Happy, Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 11:07:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGG79A2012353 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:07:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGG6T4S022014; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:06:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGG79On098872; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:07:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGG77Oo098828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:07:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBGG4XPX018181 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:04:33 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:04:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FDF2DC5.1000804@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:07:33 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition References: <6289C66B-2FE0-11D8-9D9E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> In-Reply-To: <6289C66B-2FE0-11D8-9D9E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Althea Turner wrote: > Happy Holidays, everyone!! > > This is a picture of me and me daughter taken a couple weeks ago at the > Feast of Epimetheus. > http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/EPIMETHEUS/SofiaandNatali. Somehow the .jpg fell off the URL. > http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/EPIMETHEUS/SofiaandNatali.jpg -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent John Henry said to the Captain, "By God, I ain't no fool! Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill too, Lord, Lord; get me a steam drill too!" -- Smothers Brothers song _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 11:07:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGG7IA2012356 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:07:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGG6a4S022052; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:06:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGG7GOn098948; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:07:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav49.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGG7DOn098854 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:07:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:06:27 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav49.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:06:26 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6289C66B-2FE0-11D8-9D9E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:06:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Dec 2003 16:06:27.0035 (UTC) FILETIME=[8F4D5AB0:01C3C3EE] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Althea Turner" > Happy Holidays, everyone!! > > This is a picture of me and me daughter taken a couple weeks ago at the > Feast of Epimetheus. > http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/EPIMETHEUS/SofiaandNatali. > > Althea > Works better with jpg at the end :-) Try this link instead http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/EPIMETHEUS/SofiaandNatali.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 11:11:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGGBBA2012366 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:11:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGAU4S022661; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:10:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGBAOn001892; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:11:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBGGB7On001852 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:11:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031216161026.2366.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:10:26 PST Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:10:26 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <02ec01c3c3a4$867e8fc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com What a lovely family , you have Penny--- Have a terrific holiday! Albra (who also hopes to have a working digital camera AND a family portrait to share after the holidays) Penny Ladnier wrote: I thought we could start a new holiday tradition on h-costume. So many of us have been around so long that we are like family. Some people are new and we would like to meet you. Maybe every year around this time, we can send a link of our "in-person" family to share with our "online family." You can share a link to your family webpage or an online image of your family. And by all means if you have a photo of you meeting someone from h-costume, please share that too. Please don't send your photo through h-costume email list because it doesn't support attachments or html embedded photos. To break the water, I will start first... here is a link to our annual family photo: http://www.costumegallery.com/family1sm72.jpg Daniel was working on Thanksgiving Day when we took our family portrait. So we took the photo in front of our family photo wall and you can see Daniel in old family photos. Kids ages: Katie (12), Sam (16), Pat (18), Andy (20), Daniel (22), & Ben (27). Happy, Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 11:11:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGGBXA2012369 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:11:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGAn4S022701; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:10:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGBUOn002145; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:11:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGBSOn002100 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:11:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-83-213-172.asm.bellsouth.net [65.83.213.172]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBGGAkN2015263 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:10:46 -0500 Message-ID: <009601c3c3ef$2a28e8b0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6289C66B-2FE0-11D8-9D9E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:10:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com You need to add .jpg to the end of it to get it to work... http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/EPIMETHEUS/SofiaandNatali.jpg You and your daughter look lovely and I especially like the staging of the photos in front of the stained glass. Very nice! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Althea Turner" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition > Happy Holidays, everyone!! > > This is a picture of me and me daughter taken a couple weeks ago at the > Feast of Epimetheus. > http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/EPIMETHEUS/SofiaandNatali. > > Althea > > > On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 11:16 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: > > > I thought we could start a new holiday tradition on h-costume. So > > many of > > us have been around so long that we are like family. Some people are > > new > > and we would like to meet you. Maybe every year around this time, we > > can > > send a link of our "in-person" family to share with our "online > > family." > > You can share a link to your family webpage or an online image of your > > family. And by all means if you have a photo of you meeting someone > > from > > h-costume, please share that too. Please don't send your photo through > > h-costume email list because it doesn't support attachments or html > > embedded > > photos. > > > > To break the water, I will start first... here is a link to our annual > > family photo: > > http://www.costumegallery.com/family1sm72.jpg > > Daniel was working on Thanksgiving Day when we took our family > > portrait. So > > we took the photo in front of our family photo wall and you can see > > Daniel > > in old family photos. > > > > Kids ages: Katie (12), Sam (16), Pat (18), Andy (20), Daniel (22), > > & Ben (27). > > > > Happy, Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > Penny Ladnier > > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > > www.costumegallery.com > > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > Althea Turner > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 11:13:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGGDjA2012379 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:13:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGDD4S023038; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:13:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGDrOn004006; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:13:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9402.mail.yahoo.com (web9402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBGGDpOn003969 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:13:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031216161310.96589.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:13:10 PST Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:13:10 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6289C66B-2FE0-11D8-9D9E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sniff! I'm afraid I could'nt access your pic Althea--is there another address that I could get to it from? Albra Althea Turner wrote: Happy Holidays, everyone!! This is a picture of me and me daughter taken a couple weeks ago at the Feast of Epimetheus. http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/EPIMETHEUS/SofiaandNatali. Althea On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 11:16 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: > I thought we could start a new holiday tradition on h-costume. So > many of > us have been around so long that we are like family. Some people are > new > and we would like to meet you. Maybe every year around this time, we > can > send a link of our "in-person" family to share with our "online > family." > You can share a link to your family webpage or an online image of your > family. And by all means if you have a photo of you meeting someone > from > h-costume, please share that too. Please don't send your photo through > h-costume email list because it doesn't support attachments or html > embedded > photos. > > To break the water, I will start first... here is a link to our annual > family photo: > http://www.costumegallery.com/family1sm72.jpg > Daniel was working on Thanksgiving Day when we took our family > portrait. So > we took the photo in front of our family photo wall and you can see > Daniel > in old family photos. > > Kids ages: Katie (12), Sam (16), Pat (18), Andy (20), Daniel (22), > & Ben (27). > > Happy, Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 11:18:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGGIFA2012400 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:18:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGHl4S023692; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:17:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGISOn007773; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:18:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9402.mail.yahoo.com (web9402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBGGIQOn007755 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:18:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031216161745.97140.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:17:45 PST Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:17:45 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FDF2DC5.1000804@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thanks, Cynthia --I could go to see Althea's pic--with that last bit:) Very lovely Althea---you both look so elegant! Albra Cynthia Virtue wrote: Althea Turner wrote: > Happy Holidays, everyone!! > > This is a picture of me and me daughter taken a couple weeks ago at the > Feast of Epimetheus. > http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/EPIMETHEUS/SofiaandNatali. Somehow the .jpg fell off the URL. > http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/EPIMETHEUS/SofiaandNatali.jpg -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent John Henry said to the Captain, "By God, I ain't no fool! Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill too, Lord, Lord; get me a steam drill too!" -- Smothers Brothers song _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 11:42:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGGg7A2012468 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:42:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGfc4S026261; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:41:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGgGOn025273; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:42:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGg5On025065 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:42:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 470037 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:41:18 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:41:18 -0800 Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Yes, our whole altar area, a raised stage type of area, is closed off for the entire Lenten time. The celebration takes place in front of the choir's area, a step up from the rest of the church. It shows how far we are from heaven at this time of the year. Or maybe heaven is busiest at this time of year and they don't want us to watch... LynnD On 12/16/03 6:03 AM, "Kate M Bunting" wrote: > I've not heard of the altar being curtained off, but in some Anglican > churches it is stripped during the Maundy Thursday service and left as a > bare table until it is dressed for Easter morning. Apparently this is an > ancient tradition. > >>>> LDownward@chori.org 15/12/03 17:37:39 >>> > This is really interesting! > > I suddenly wondered, how far back does this go in church history? In > my > Armenian Orthodox church, the alter is closed off with a purple or > black > curtain during Lent and no one sees it during this time of mourning > until > Easter morning. The usual curtain is deep burgundy, at least in my > church. > Is it the same in other churches? > > LynnD > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 11:42:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGGgqA2012473 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:42:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGgF4S026368; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGgtOn025852; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:42:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGGgqOn025810 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:42:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-83-213-172.asm.bellsouth.net [65.83.213.172]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBGGg7WJ011059 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:42:07 -0500 Message-ID: <00da01c3c3f3$8af11330$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031216160554.59065.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:42:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition > Very cute 'Kids' you have Teena:) do you ever try dressing them for the 'Holidays'? > Albra > (who tried to get her cat, Bella, to sit still with reindeer antlers and elizabethean ruff--for the family holiday pic----to no avail) > I would love to! In fact, I have toyed with putting medieval barding on them.... but it wouldn't work. The male (the black one) is very stoic and would bear it with dignity, but the female (the dapple) might last about 6.3 seconds before she ripped it to shreds. Teena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 12:20:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGHK9A2012569 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:20:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGHIC4S000705; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:18:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGHInOn054282; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:18:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from berlinr.sprint.ca (berlinr.sprint.ca [209.5.194.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGHIjOn054217 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:18:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shooie@sprint.ca) Received: from shooie ([149.99.67.124]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20031216171801.VXCH5715.berlinr.sprint.ca@shooie> for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:18:01 -0500 Message-ID: <004901c3c3f8$4e7e1f60$cb6afea9@shooie> From: "Sheridan & Shane" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6289C66B-2FE0-11D8-9D9E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <3FDF2DC5.1000804@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:15:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I'll play! :-) I agree, its nice to put faces to names. I don't have a website as of yet, still working on getting a digital camera or a scanner, but I do have some of my dance pictures. This was taken in the spring at my troupe's bi-annual show: http://www.dancegypt.com/images/Galleries/Dance_Caravan_03/Caravan%202003%20 060.jpg This costume was a devil to fit, I bought it from a lady who travels often to Egypt and brings back costumes for all of her dancer friends. When they made this one, I really don't think they had a human body in mind. :-) Now I just make all of my own, it takes less time than trying to properly fit 'one size' costumes. Here's the Troupe, I'm on the bottom left (ooo, pasty white....) http://www.dancegypt.com/index.htm This one is of my hubby, it was taken the day after he cut off his waist length hair, about 4 years ago: http://www.chainmailstore.com/mw/Main.htm Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of us in our good costumes, I'm working on changing that this year as I finally have some outfits I want to show off. :-) Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 12:36:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGHalA2012626 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:36:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGG054S021262; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:00:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGG0iOn094186; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:00:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGG0fOn094086 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:00:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hBGFxtU31094 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:59:56 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:06:39 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <6289C66B-2FE0-11D8-9D9E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com OOpsie...add a .jpg to that url. lol.. I really should remember to NOT operate a computer BEFORE coffee. :D Althea On Tuesday, December 16, 2003, at 07:56 AM, Althea Turner wrote: > Happy Holidays, everyone!! > > This is a picture of me and me daughter taken a couple weeks ago at > the Feast of Epimetheus. > http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/EPIMETHEUS/SofiaandNatali. > > Althea > > > On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 11:16 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: > >> I thought we could start a new holiday tradition on h-costume. So >> many of >> us have been around so long that we are like family. Some people are >> new >> and we would like to meet you. Maybe every year around this time, we >> can >> send a link of our "in-person" family to share with our "online >> family." >> You can share a link to your family webpage or an online image of your >> family. And by all means if you have a photo of you meeting someone >> from >> h-costume, please share that too. Please don't send your photo >> through >> h-costume email list because it doesn't support attachments or html >> embedded >> photos. >> >> To break the water, I will start first... here is a link to our annual >> family photo: >> http://www.costumegallery.com/family1sm72.jpg >> Daniel was working on Thanksgiving Day when we took our family >> portrait. So >> we took the photo in front of our family photo wall and you can see >> Daniel >> in old family photos. >> >> Kids ages: Katie (12), Sam (16), Pat (18), Andy (20), Daniel (22), >> & Ben (27). >> >> Happy, Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >> >> Penny Ladnier >> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >> www.costumegallery.com >> www.costumeclassroom.com >> >> >> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners >> (http://www.plugit.com)] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > Althea Turner > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 12:39:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGHdHA2012638 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:39:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGHcZ4S003005; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:38:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGHdCOn070228; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:39:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes03-hme0.telusplanet.net (outbound01.telus.net [199.185.220.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGHdBOn070110 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:39:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kalawton@codexpublishing.ca) Received: from kal ([205.206.108.242]) by priv-edtnes03-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with ESMTP id <20031216173822.EAUU1895.priv-edtnes03-hme0.telusplanet.net@kal> for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:38:22 -0700 From: "Keri-Anne Lawton" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:38:22 -0700 Organization: Codex Publishing Group Message-ID: <001a01c3c3fb$67339ff0$f26ccecd@kal> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <004901c3c3f8$4e7e1f60$cb6afea9@shooie> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hBGHdBOn070110 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Here’s a better link for the last picture. http://www.chainmailstore.com/mw/images/People/Phalen%20Gann[1].jpg Cheers Keri-Anne -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sheridan & Shane Sent: December 16, 2003 10:15 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition I'll play! :-) I agree, its nice to put faces to names. I don't have a website as of yet, still working on getting a digital camera or a scanner, but I do have some of my dance pictures. This was taken in the spring at my troupe's bi-annual show: http://www.dancegypt.com/images/Galleries/Dance_Caravan_03/Caravan%20200 3%20 060.jpg This costume was a devil to fit, I bought it from a lady who travels often to Egypt and brings back costumes for all of her dancer friends. When they made this one, I really don't think they had a human body in mind. :-) Now I just make all of my own, it takes less time than trying to properly fit 'one size' costumes. Here's the Troupe, I'm on the bottom left (ooo, pasty white....) http://www.dancegypt.com/index.htm This one is of my hubby, it was taken the day after he cut off his waist length hair, about 4 years ago: http://www.chainmailstore.com/mw/Main.htm Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of us in our good costumes, I'm working on changing that this year as I finally have some outfits I want to show off. :-) Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.551 / Virus Database: 343 - Release Date: 11/12/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.551 / Virus Database: 343 - Release Date: 11/12/2003 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 12:44:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGHiDA2012657 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:44:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGHhh4S003673; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:43:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGHiOOn075250; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:44:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGHiIOn075096 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:44:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810+JAGae91741)/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA00609 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:43:34 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:43:34 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I was re-reading my copy of "What Clothes Reveal: Clothing in the Colonial Williamsburg Collection" and in the chapter covering clothing for bridal, maternity, children's and mourning wear, apparently there were rules and regs for mourning, at least going back into the 18th century; it didn't begin with Victoria. Widows, at least who could afford it, followed the year and a day in full mourning(dull-finished fabrics with minimal trim and jewelry)unless they remarried. Then, depending on age(older widows were expected to remain in black indefinately, or at least in dark colors), mourning could move into stages towards full colors and patterned and shiny fabrics. Interestingly the lilac popular for later mourning actually appears more pink than purple-lavender in fashion plates I've seen quite often. About ten years ago, while visiting a museum in Rogers, Arkansas, a circa 1895 dress described as half-mourning was more a definate pinky-mauve, rather than lilac or lavender, although colors do change over time. Unforturnately, I certainly couldn't get permission to inspect the inner-seams or lining for more clues on the orginal color of the dress versus the present color. The woman who was showing me through the exibit(included a small coffin made for a child who the physician pronounced doomed not to recover from scarlet fever, but did so--the child lived to a ripe old age and the family never used the coffin!)was interested in my comments on the gown's apparent color--it made me wonder if Chanel and other designers combining pink with black might have it's roots in the lilac/lavender of half-mourning either being more pink or turning pink over time, compared to how we presently view the colors lavender and lilac. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 13:10:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGIABA2012726 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:10:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGI9Z4S007210; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:09:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGIAEOn098361; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:10:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGIACOn098228 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:10:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 295FEBE740 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:09:23 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FDF4BB1.1060101@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:15:13 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian dress pictures References: <3FDDAC00.4010008@kabelfoon.nl> <233501c3c309$b4ae7540$98614ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thanks! I have the mantel almost finished :-) . Made it from grey/black wool with decorations of black satin ribbons. Made also a bonnet pattern an I will probably make it from green satin. Greetings, Deredere Melanie Wilson wrote: >>What can I wear over the dress when I am outside?? >> >> > >A Mantel ? > > > >>Are there patterns online for making such a thing???? >> >> > >I think so on Hope's siter I thought I saw one > >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/godey/fashion/di.html > >Mel > >This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received >it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose >the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of >this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the >Company, unless specifically stated > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 13:19:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGIJLA2012763 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:19:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGIIu4S008226; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:18:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGIJaOn006150; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:19:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGIJZOn006087 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:19:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 470459 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:18:48 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:18:48 -0800 Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com You're probably right about the color. I'm not quibbling at all, but my mind wandered a step off the specific topic and started thinking about practicalities. Unless she was quite young, what widow in her right mind would wear pink, which makes most of us old enough to be widows fade out into nothing? Lilac is bad enough, but pink? I guess it depends on the pink, but I for one can't wear pastels at all any more as I've faded into my 50's. My dark hair has lightened, not including the grey that's started growing there in the past few years and the skin isn't the clear peachy color it once was. Blacks, midnight blues, aubergine, burgundies, forest greens all work, but not the colors I wore in my 20's. And I can't imagine even a widow going along with something that made them look unattractive just because that was the convention. Maybe at some point they'd decide to stay in the darker colors because they became more flattering. And Can you imagine being that child and knowing that you had been expected to die - and they kept the coffin? If the child didn't have a good feeling of self-worth, do you think they'd wonder if Pater and Mater were waiting for him/her to die even after s/he got better? That could certainly warp a child's view of life. Just thinking on a slow day at work... LynnD On 12/16/03 9:43 AM, "Cindy Abel" wrote: > > > I was re-reading my copy of "What Clothes Reveal: Clothing in the Colonial > Williamsburg Collection" and in the chapter covering clothing for bridal, > maternity, children's and mourning wear, apparently there were rules and > regs for mourning, at least going back into the 18th century; it didn't > begin with Victoria. Widows, at least who could afford it, followed the year > and a day in full mourning(dull-finished fabrics with minimal trim and > jewelry)unless they remarried. Then, depending on age(older widows were > expected to remain in black indefinately, or at least in dark colors), > mourning could move into stages towards full colors and patterned and shiny > fabrics. Interestingly the lilac popular for later mourning actually appears > more pink than purple-lavender in fashion plates I've seen quite often. > About ten years ago, while visiting a museum in Rogers, Arkansas, a circa > 1895 dress described as half-mourning was more a definate pinky-mauve, > rather than lilac or lavender, although colors do change over time. > Unforturnately, I certainly couldn't get permission to inspect the > inner-seams or lining for more clues on the orginal color of the dress > versus the present color. The woman who was showing me through the > exibit(included a small coffin made for a child who the physician pronounced > doomed not to recover from scarlet fever, but did so--the child lived to a > ripe old age and the family never used the coffin!)was interested in my > comments on the gown's apparent color--it made me wonder if Chanel and other > designers combining pink with black might have it's roots in the > lilac/lavender of half-mourning either being more pink or turning pink over > time, compared to how we presently view the colors lavender and lilac. > > Cindy Abel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 13:25:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGIPUA2012785 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:25:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGIOS4S008923; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:24:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGIP8On010596; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:25:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGIP6On010557 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:25:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.127] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABE82D570154; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:16:08 -0500 Message-ID: <003101c3c402$76c1d8e0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:28:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Be aware that there seems to have been a dye problem affecting the grey/purple/lavender range so that many of these earlier garments will change color entirely over time. And also that some lithos of the 19th C were hand colored; probably at the mercy of the paint boxes of the colorists. I have a crepe evening dress of the early 1940s that has gone from dove grey to a general strong rose color to date. Also some of the bolts of silk type fabrics, including velvet are well on their way to becoming strongly pink. If we can't trust the paints of the oil artists as giving authentic coloration in the portraits we study so closely, or the photos we use for identification of tone, I suspect the term purple, lavender, mauve and so forth is always going to be in the mind's eye of the beholder. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:43 PM Subject: RE: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic > > > I was re-reading my copy of "What Clothes Reveal: Clothing in the Colonial > Williamsburg Collection" and in the chapter covering clothing for bridal, > maternity, children's and mourning wear, apparently there were rules and > regs for mourning, at least going back into the 18th century; it didn't > begin with Victoria. Widows, at least who could afford it, followed the year > and a day in full mourning(dull-finished fabrics with minimal trim and > jewelry)unless they remarried. Then, depending on age(older widows were > expected to remain in black indefinately, or at least in dark colors), > mourning could move into stages towards full colors and patterned and shiny > fabrics. Interestingly the lilac popular for later mourning actually appears > more pink than purple-lavender in fashion plates I've seen quite often. > About ten years ago, while visiting a museum in Rogers, Arkansas, a circa > 1895 dress described as half-mourning was more a definate pinky-mauve, > rather than lilac or lavender, although colors do change over time. > Unforturnately, I certainly couldn't get permission to inspect the > inner-seams or lining for more clues on the orginal color of the dress > versus the present color. The woman who was showing me through the > exibit(included a small coffin made for a child who the physician pronounced > doomed not to recover from scarlet fever, but did so--the child lived to a > ripe old age and the family never used the coffin!)was interested in my > comments on the gown's apparent color--it made me wonder if Chanel and other > designers combining pink with black might have it's roots in the > lilac/lavender of half-mourning either being more pink or turning pink over > time, compared to how we presently view the colors lavender and lilac. > > Cindy Abel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 13:46:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGIkjA2013035 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:46:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGIk74S011268; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:46:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGIkmOn027523; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:46:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGIkjOn027467 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:46:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.127] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0FC832800F2; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:37:48 -0500 Message-ID: <001201c3c405$7e076400$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:50:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Re the development of Real pink, especially the shade later ascribed to Scapparelli, but was available in the last quarter of the 19th C, I think that it , like green, was one of the innovations of the discovery and use of aniline dyes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "h costume" Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 1:18 PM Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic > You're probably right about the color. I'm not quibbling at all, but my mind > wandered a step off the specific topic and started thinking about > practicalities. > > Unless she was quite young, what widow in her right mind would wear pink, > which makes most of us old enough to be widows fade out into nothing? Lilac > is bad enough, but pink? I guess it depends on the pink, but I for one can't > wear pastels at all any more as I've faded into my 50's. My dark hair has > lightened, not including the grey that's started growing there in the past > few years and the skin isn't the clear peachy color it once was. Blacks, > midnight blues, aubergine, burgundies, forest greens all work, but not the > colors I wore in my 20's. And I can't imagine even a widow going along with > something that made them look unattractive just because that was the > convention. Maybe at some point they'd decide to stay in the darker colors > because they became more flattering. > > And > Can you imagine being that child and knowing that you had been expected to > die - and they kept the coffin? If the child didn't have a good feeling of > self-worth, do you think they'd wonder if Pater and Mater were waiting for > him/her to die even after s/he got better? That could certainly warp a > child's view of life. > > Just thinking on a slow day at work... > LynnD > > > On 12/16/03 9:43 AM, "Cindy Abel" wrote: > > > > > > > I was re-reading my copy of "What Clothes Reveal: Clothing in the Colonial > > Williamsburg Collection" and in the chapter covering clothing for bridal, > > maternity, children's and mourning wear, apparently there were rules and > > regs for mourning, at least going back into the 18th century; it didn't > > begin with Victoria. Widows, at least who could afford it, followed the year > > and a day in full mourning(dull-finished fabrics with minimal trim and > > jewelry)unless they remarried. Then, depending on age(older widows were > > expected to remain in black indefinately, or at least in dark colors), > > mourning could move into stages towards full colors and patterned and shiny > > fabrics. Interestingly the lilac popular for later mourning actually appears > > more pink than purple-lavender in fashion plates I've seen quite often. > > About ten years ago, while visiting a museum in Rogers, Arkansas, a circa > > 1895 dress described as half-mourning was more a definate pinky-mauve, > > rather than lilac or lavender, although colors do change over time. > > Unforturnately, I certainly couldn't get permission to inspect the > > inner-seams or lining for more clues on the orginal color of the dress > > versus the present color. The woman who was showing me through the > > exibit(included a small coffin made for a child who the physician pronounced > > doomed not to recover from scarlet fever, but did so--the child lived to a > > ripe old age and the family never used the coffin!)was interested in my > > comments on the gown's apparent color--it made me wonder if Chanel and other > > designers combining pink with black might have it's roots in the > > lilac/lavender of half-mourning either being more pink or turning pink over > > time, compared to how we presently view the colors lavender and lilac. > > > > Cindy Abel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 14:02:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGJ2TA2013132 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:02:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGJ1j4S012736; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:01:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGJ2POn039218; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:02:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGJ2NOn039097 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:02:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBGJ1L0R031689 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:01:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031216133159.031ff2f0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:00:47 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Heading down to Virginia Beach for the holidays... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com We'll be headed down Saturday and will be in town for about a week. I remember something about one or more of our listfolk being involved with one of the museums or restorations in Jamestown or Williamsburg? Going back through the archives, it looks like there are a few temporary exhibits at the DeWitt Wallace museum I'd like to take in, and I'm trying to remember if there was anything else I needed to check into in advance of going south? Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 15:10:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGKAGA2013699 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:10:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGK9O4S019835; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGKA5On093909; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:10:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGKA2On093753 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:10:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A44AB9D008E; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:00:10 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4473C02D0; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:00:07 -0600 Message-ID: <015601c3c410$83f506a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6289C66B-2FE0-11D8-9D9E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:09:29 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Althea, What a beautiful photo of you and your daughter. You should have that photo made into a poster. I love the stained glass windows. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 15:20:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGKKFA2013767 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:20:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGKHa4S020590; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:17:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGKIIOn000541; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:18:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGKIFOn000441 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:18:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A638154A0094; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:08:24 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A63431E024C; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:08:20 -0600 Message-ID: <017201c3c411$aa6771a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001a01c3c3fb$67339ff0$f26ccecd@kal> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:17:43 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Keri-Anne, I think your husband must be my husband's younger brother. Your hubby looks like my husband did in his younger, leaner years. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 15:31:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGKV7A2013848 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:31:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGKNa5c021263; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:25:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGK4AOn089240; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:04:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGK48On089160 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:04:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2E9F870078; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:54:17 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2E58590222; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:54:13 -0600 Message-ID: <014301c3c40f$b1738f80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:03:35 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Kayta, We'll adopt you IF, and only if, you have gone through puberty! We always have room for people who love costumes and can sew. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 16:08:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGL8CA2014209 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:08:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGL7W4S026367; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:07:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGL8BOn038510; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:08:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGL89On038489 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:08:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.57]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGL7O2o006817 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:07:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031216125208.05a36d00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:04:30 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition In-Reply-To: <014301c3c40f$b1738f80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >Kayta, > >We'll adopt you IF, and only if, you have gone through puberty! We always >have room for people who love costumes and can sew. Can I call you all Mommy? One of my daughters is almost thru puberty, at age 19.5 , and the other one is right in the middle of it, at 15.5 . I don't have physical custody. On a much happier note, someone posted a picture of me at a Ren. Faire this year, with my drunkard doll on my shoulder and a faire-participant doll on my basket. My family is either online, made of cloth, or at a Ren/Dickens' Faire these days. http://www.loopedatfaire.com/2003/03cdf/page_27.htm I'm the one second from the left in the bottom row, looking toward the drunkard doll on my left shoulder, carrying the basket and basket doll on my left arm. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 16:26:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGLQuA2014466 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:26:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGLQG4S028376; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:26:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGLQwOn053233; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:26:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGLQuOn053166 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:26:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A64F6B80084; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:17:03 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A64C3A8024C; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:17:00 -0600 Message-ID: <01ab01c3c41b$40c02080$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <02ec01c3c3a4$867e8fc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <001101c3c3dc$b70d00d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:26:21 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com How wonderful to see your families!!! I love putting faces with people too! It is also fun to see your pets... since we talk about their love of our sewing areas so much. We take our family portrait every year on Thanksgiving, so it can go in our Christmas letter. The older members of our family love to see how the kids grow each year. This is the second year Daniel has missed the family photo... last year we took it at church after Mass. Daniel showed up at the wrong mass. So the arrows to old photos is a joke on him. The other joke is that when Daniel was 10 years old, we went three times to take our photo. Once the photographer completely cut Daniel out of the photo! The third attempt, we came home in a blizzard from the photographer. When we received the photo... Daniel (trying to stand on tip-toes to be taller than Ben), had his arm out to balance. Lo and behold... Daniel was flipping the bird!!!!!!!! This old family portrait is an 11" X 13" and is on the wall in this year's portrait hidden behind the boys. LOL!!! I had the bird photo's matte cut to not show Daniel's hand in the photo. Of course, when people visit and look at the portrait wall, the kids' love to point out Daniel's missing hand in the photo. Here are two more photos to share. This is of the theater tech's at the kids' high school play, Children of Eden, in November. Their school was one of five schools chosen to perform this year at the Carpenter Center for the Performing Arts. The idea was to give the high school students a chance to perform and work in a professional theater. http://www.costumegallery.com/Pat/Eden/tech1b.jpg http://www.costumegallery.com/Pat/Eden/tech2a.jpg Pat is on the far right and Sam is holding the light-colored t-shirt. There were a lot more techs for the show, but these were the ones left to load the trucks. (See Mike T., I didn't call them techies!) If you want to see what the Carpenter Center looks like inside, go to: http://www.carpentercenter.org/75years.html It was built in 1928, and looks like the ceiling is outside but isn't. This was a popular style of building theaters at the time. The place is so ornate with art deco style. BTW, the ceiling has lights that twinkle like stars. Needless to say, the kids were thrilled to perform in the theater. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 16:51:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGLp1A2014683 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:51:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGLoK4S001015; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:50:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGLp1On072282; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:51:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGLnwOn071388 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:49:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.116] (pm7-116.eos.net [205.133.149.116]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGLmKc2012756 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:48:20 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:49:30 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312161900.hBGJ0dOo037888@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 852 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com on 12/16/03 2:00 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > Unless she was quite young, what widow in her right mind would wear pink, > which makes most of us old enough to be widows fade out into nothing? Lilac > is bad enough, but pink? I guess it depends on the pink, but I for one can't > wear pastels at all any more as I've faded into my 50's. My dark hair has > lightened, not including the grey that's started growing there in the past > few years and the skin isn't the clear peachy color it once was. Blacks, > midnight blues, aubergine, burgundies, forest greens all work, but not the > colors I wore in my 20's. And I can't imagine even a widow going along with > something that made them look unattractive just because that was the > convention. Lynn: I look horrible in black, as do many people I know. But that didn't stop black from becoming "the" permanent mourning color! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 17:55:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGMt3A2015141 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:55:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGMsN4S007344; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:54:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGMt6On021179; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:55:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBGMt3On021142 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:55:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031216225416.23986.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:54:16 PST Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:54:16 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031216125208.05a36d00@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com What cute little dolls, Kayta! How long have you been doing them now? Albra Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >Kayta, > >We'll adopt you IF, and only if, you have gone through puberty! We always >have room for people who love costumes and can sew. Can I call you all Mommy? One of my daughters is almost thru puberty, at age 19.5 , and the other one is right in the middle of it, at 15.5 . I don't have physical custody. On a much happier note, someone posted a picture of me at a Ren. Faire this year, with my drunkard doll on my shoulder and a faire-participant doll on my basket. My family is either online, made of cloth, or at a Ren/Dickens' Faire these days. http://www.loopedatfaire.com/2003/03cdf/page_27.htm I'm the one second from the left in the bottom row, looking toward the drunkard doll on my left shoulder, carrying the basket and basket doll on my left arm. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 17:56:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGMu2A2015156 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:56:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGMra5E007222; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:55:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGMToOn001828; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:29:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGMTlOn001805 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:29:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.123] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A54185DC00AA; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:20:49 -0500 Message-ID: <002601c3c424$a5fd1800$7b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 852 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:33:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I don't think that people from the other time periods focused on how they looked in "Mourning". It was central to the idea of showing grief. After all, in Biblical times, how often does one worry about how one looked in 'sack cloth and ashes'? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 4:49 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 852 > on 12/16/03 2:00 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com at > h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > > Unless she was quite young, what widow in her right mind would wear pink, > > which makes most of us old enough to be widows fade out into nothing? Lilac > > is bad enough, but pink? I guess it depends on the pink, but I for one can't > > wear pastels at all any more as I've faded into my 50's. My dark hair has > > lightened, not including the grey that's started growing there in the past > > few years and the skin isn't the clear peachy color it once was. Blacks, > > midnight blues, aubergine, burgundies, forest greens all work, but not the > > colors I wore in my 20's. And I can't imagine even a widow going along with > > something that made them look unattractive just because that was the > > convention. > > Lynn: I look horrible in black, as do many people I know. But that didn't > stop black from becoming "the" permanent mourning color! > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 17:59:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGMxGA2015181 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:59:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGMwf4S007739; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:58:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGMxPOn024135; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:59:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web10406.mail.yahoo.com (web10406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBGMxLOn024077 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:59:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claudine_on_the_net@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031216225836.5175.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.17.149.13] by web10406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:58:36 PST Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:58:36 -0800 (PST) From: Claudine Wong To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Cambridge History of Western Textiles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I received this in an email advertisement from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521341078/ref%3Dpe%5Fsnp%5F078/104-1192753-2531963 I feel like I've heard of this book before, though the publication date is October 2003. Claudine __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 18:02:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBGN2eA2015232 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:02:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGN244S008136; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:02:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBGN2kOn026499; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:02:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9401.mail.yahoo.com (web9401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBGN2hOn026458 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:02:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031216230159.35543.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:01:59 PST Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:01:59 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00da01c3c3f3$8af11330$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Yes, what a pity we can't get 'the Kids' to co-operate for 'dress-up' :( Albra Teena Paradise wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition > Very cute 'Kids' you have Teena:) do you ever try dressing them for the 'Holidays'? > Albra > (who tried to get her cat, Bella, to sit still with reindeer antlers and elizabethean ruff--for the family holiday pic----to no avail) > I would love to! In fact, I have toyed with putting medieval barding on them.... but it wouldn't work. The male (the black one) is very stoic and would bear it with dignity, but the female (the dapple) might last about 6.3 seconds before she ripped it to shreds. Teena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 19:41:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH0fBA2015855 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:41:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH0e34S016719; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:40:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH0ehOn092205; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:40:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH0efOn092151 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:40:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03126 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 20:06:21 -0600 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 20:06:21 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Cambridge History of Western Textiles In-Reply-To: <20031216225836.5175.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Claudine Wong wrote: > I received this in an email advertisement from Amazon: > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521341078/ref%3Dpe%5Fsnp%5F078/104-1192753-2531963 > > I feel like I've heard of this book before, though the > publication date is October 2003. It's been talked up for a long time. There were flyers for it, but no copies, at K'zoo in May 2003. An English colleague of mine who contributed saw it in the flesh around October, so that sounds right. I got a call about it from the American-side publicist for Cambridge around that time, too, but I haven't seen my promised review copy yet. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 19:56:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH0uIA2015917 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:56:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH0tl4S018103; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:55:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH0uVOn001282; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:56:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH0uTOn001263 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:56:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([141.152.170.30]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20031217005544.JBIL20713.out003.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:55:44 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Heading down to Virginia Beach for the holidays... Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:55:42 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031216133159.031ff2f0@earthlink.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [141.152.170.30] at Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:55:43 -0600 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hello, I am one of these listfolk here in Williamsburg, and involved with Colonial Williamsburg and The Jamestown Settlement. I suspect that one of the exhibits you mean (if not one you will want to see if it is still up) is The Language of Clothing at the Dewitt Wallace museum. It is also the Christmas season which means a lot of beautiful though not period christmas decorations. The materials are period however. This can also mean crowds however. Christmas ii usually one of the most crowded times of the year at CW. The christmas season also means little mini illuminations, Christmas guns, Caroling etc, so you might want to consider coming out at night. If you are still here the following weekend there is "Sorry Wrong Chiminy". This is a Christmas Farce which is light entertainment and while being rather silly and of little real social value it does happen to include myself! Historic Jamestown has little to offer currently as exhibits go. They do have the original foundations of first settlement building and of course the Archealogical work on the original fort site, but Isabel has caused the prmature destruction of their visitor center and its exhibits. Jamestowne settlement on the other hand has it's living hisotry programming up, but again it's conventional galleries are closed. They are all being rebuilt and redesigned for the 2007 event. Cheers, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Brenda Bell > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 2:01 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Heading down to Virginia Beach for the holidays... > > > We'll be headed down Saturday and will be in town for about a week. I > remember something about one or more of our listfolk being involved with > one of the museums or restorations in Jamestown or Williamsburg? > > Going back through the archives, it looks like there are a few temporary > exhibits at the DeWitt Wallace museum I'd like to take in, and I'm trying > to remember if there was anything else I needed to check into in > advance of > going south? > > > > Brenda > webwarren@earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 20:01:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH11lA2015946 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 20:01:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH11D4S018445; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:01:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH11vOn004202; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:01:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop2a.ripco.com (root@pop2a.ripco.com [209.100.227.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH11tOn004175 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:01:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zski@ripco.com) Received: from ripco.com (tcr69.dynip.ripco.net [209.100.226.69]) by pop2a.ripco.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH11DQd017216 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:01:14 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3FDFAACA.9020005@ripco.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:00:58 -0600 From: zski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic References: <200312161900.hBGJ0dOp037888@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In addition to the "color change over time" aspect, also remember that gaslight shifted visible colors as well. At the Cincinnati Art Museum, I saw a gown described as "red" that was a sickly orange under fluorescent lighting. When "properly" lit and photographed in the catalogue, it was a lovely flame red. Wendy Z eating X-mas cookies in Chicago, IL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 20:16:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH1GdA2016037 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 20:16:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH1FF4S019448; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:15:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH1FxOn011299; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:15:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH1FvOo011272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:15:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-140.sonic.net [209.148.112.140]) (authenticated bits=0) by eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBH1FAdL022732 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:15:11 -0800 Message-ID: <3FDFAEDF.4000008@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:18:23 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Cambridge History of Western Textiles References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I bought _The Cambridge History of Western Textiles_ when it came out, which was a couple months ago if I recall. I haven't read it thoroughly yet, and given its size and my current commitments it will be awhile before I do. So my comments here are broad and off the cuff. It's big and weighs like several bricks. It is an anthology of scholarly essays, rather than a history to be read through continuously. It focuses on textiles, not primarily on clothing. It struck me as strongest for pre-20th-century and even pre-19th-century eras. It's solid stuff--this is not a beginner introduction. I am very pleased with it, but I think it's not a necessity for every costumer. I do think it's a necessity for many libraries, though. Anyway, if anyone is worried about ordering a book that may not exist, it has indeed been published. Fran Robin Netherton wrote: >On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Claudine Wong wrote: > > >It's been talked up for a long time. There were flyers for it, but no >copies, at K'zoo in May 2003. An English colleague of mine who contributed >saw it in the flesh around October, so that sounds right. > ---------------------------------- Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 21:50:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH2orA2016232 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:50:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH2oE4S025613; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:50:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH2o4Eh027448; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH2o1Eh027422 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:50:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a245.in-tch.com [66.62.107.45]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBH2SP710774 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:28:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FDFC4FF.A890608E@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:52:47 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition References: <6289C66B-2FE0-11D8-9D9E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <3FDF2DC5.1000804@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hey, Althea! Like the matching/coordinating outfits! Is the trim green, or is that just my monitor? --sue Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > Althea Turner wrote: > > Happy Holidays, everyone!! > > > > This is a picture of me and me daughter taken a couple weeks ago at the > > Feast of Epimetheus. > > http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/EPIMETHEUS/SofiaandNatali. > > Somehow the .jpg fell off the URL. > > > http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/EPIMETHEUS/SofiaandNatali.jpg > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > John Henry said to the Captain, "By God, I ain't no fool! Before I die > with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill too, Lord, > Lord; get me a steam drill too!" -- Smothers Brothers song > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 21:56:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH2txA2016248 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:55:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH2tT4S025971; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:55:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH2tTEh029839; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:55:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH2tREh029771 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:55:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a245.in-tch.com [66.62.107.45]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBH2Xk713159 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:33:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FDFC63F.32697D1C@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:58:07 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition References: <001a01c3c3fb$67339ff0$f26ccecd@kal> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Cool! You're from Avacal (Avacal *rocks*!) 'Course, the husband's cute, too, even without yummy hair! --sue, who sometimes can be found in a place called "Artemisia" Keri-Anne Lawton wrote: > > Here’s a better link for the last picture. > http://www.chainmailstore.com/mw/images/People/Phalen%20Gann[1].jpg > > Cheers > Keri-Anne > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Sheridan & Shane > Sent: December 16, 2003 10:15 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition > > I'll play! :-) > > I agree, its nice to put faces to names. I don't have a website as of > yet, > still working on getting a digital camera or a scanner, but I do have > some > of my dance pictures. This was taken in the spring at my troupe's > bi-annual > show: > > http://www.dancegypt.com/images/Galleries/Dance_Caravan_03/Caravan%20200 > 3%20 > 060.jpg > > This costume was a devil to fit, I bought it from a lady who travels > often > to Egypt and brings back costumes for all of her dancer friends. When > they > made this one, I really don't think they had a human body in mind. :-) > Now I > just make all of my own, it takes less time than trying to properly fit > 'one > size' costumes. > > Here's the Troupe, I'm on the bottom left (ooo, pasty white....) > http://www.dancegypt.com/index.htm > > This one is of my hubby, it was taken the day after he cut off his > waist > length hair, about 4 years ago: > > http://www.chainmailstore.com/mw/Main.htm > > Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of us in our good costumes, I'm > working on changing that this year as I finally have some outfits I want > to > show off. :-) > > Sheridan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.551 / Virus Database: 343 - Release Date: 11/12/2003 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.551 / Virus Database: 343 - Release Date: 11/12/2003 > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 21:56:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH2ucA2016252 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:56:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH2uB4S026034; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:56:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH2uBEh030178; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:56:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH2u9Eh030139 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:56:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a245.in-tch.com [66.62.107.45]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBH2YV713512 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:34:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FDFC66C.B8F3BDCA@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:58:52 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition References: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com> <014301c3c40f$b1738f80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Penny, can we go back through puberty to a second childhood? --sue Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Kayta, > > We'll adopt you IF, and only if, you have gone through puberty! We always > have room for people who love costumes and can sew. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 23:28:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH4SLA2016609 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:28:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4Qe4S001869; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:26:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4QeEh074512; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:26:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4QcEi074492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:26:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBH4RbUZ008450 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:27:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBH4RaoP008448 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:27:36 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Black was: Re: [h-cost] Another new topic Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:27:36 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312162327.36455.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Tuesday 16 December 2003 09:03 am, Kate M Bunting wrote: > I've not heard of the altar being curtained off, but in some Anglican > churches it is stripped during the Maundy Thursday service and left as a > bare table until it is dressed for Easter morning. Apparently this is an > ancient tradition. Yes, stripping the altar is standard Roman Catholic practice; they did it in my parish church. They would also cover all the permanent images in the church with special purple covers--particularly the large crucifix that hung over the altar--at the same time. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 23:30:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH4UFA2016616 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:30:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4Tf4S002159; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:29:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4TgEh076037; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:29:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4TdEh075987 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:29:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A98A14C0098; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:20:26 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9875A5024C; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:20:23 -0600 Message-ID: <02d101c3c456$54444e20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Heading down to Virginia Beach for the holidays... Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:29:14 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Ron, It breaks my heart to know that Jamestown took a hard hit from Isabel. I haven't heard from you since the hurricane hit and was worried about how much damage you all took. It is so sad to drive around and still see the 200 year old tree stumps and debris everywhere. Byrd Park in Richmond is still such a mess. They lost over 200 trees. Monument Ave. is now cleaned up. The Virginia House grounds also took some damage. The house is open but the grounds are closed. I have been to Agecroft since the hurricane. Some big trees went down but the house and grounds are open. We have been worried about a nice state park on the Eastern Shore faired through the storm. I think the name of it is Kiptopeke. We were there over Labor Day weekend and really enjoyed it. We checked their website and it hasn't been updated. So many of the nice state parks have been shut down without a date of when they are re-opening. Did you guys feel the earthquake last week? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 23:34:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH4YLA2016625 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:34:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4Xi4S002419; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:33:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4XjEh078187; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:33:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4XiEh078125 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:33:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA7F1530098; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:24:31 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA7C9D80060; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:24:28 -0600 Message-ID: <02dc01c3c456$e6049f40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com><014301c3c40f$b1738f80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3FDFC66C.B8F3BDCA@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:33:19 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com <> You behave or I will have you doing windows or ripping seams. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition > Penny, can we go back through puberty to a second childhood? > --sue [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 23:36:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH4aNA2016631 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:36:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4Zl4S002546; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:35:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4ZmEh079277; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:35:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out012.verizon.net (out012pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4ZkEh079257 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:35:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([151.199.135.81]) by out012.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20031217043544.GAST38.out012.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:35:44 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Black Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:35:42 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out012.verizon.net from [151.199.135.81] at Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:35:43 -0600 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Black is the colour of mourning in the 18th century, and there are complicated rules regarding it then, though I do not know when they begin. In fact the first Continental Congress retricted some of it with the 8th article of the Association passed in October of 1774. Cheers, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Sarah Goodman-Rodriguez > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:14 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Re: Black > > > The rumor I've heard is that black was established as the color of > mourning after Queen Victoria took to wearing it in her widowhood. > Certianly, the Victorian era is when you start seeing all the > elaborate rules of mourning cropping up, such as how much black you > are required to wear in relation to the deceased, how long, what type > of fabric, etc. > > This is completely unsubstaniated by research on my part, however. ;) > > Sarah > http://www.modehistorique.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 16 23:47:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH4lBA2016663 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:47:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4kZ4S003160; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:46:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4kZEh084200; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH4kXEh084149 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:46:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD803E0001E; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:37:20 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD7DA0A0060; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:37:17 -0600 Message-ID: <02f101c3c458$af6f9f00$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Black Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:46:06 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I recently put some fashion reports online for 1856 and it mentions black for mourning. I thought it was funny that it mentions when one slowly comes out of mourning, it was suggested to use pink and black combinations. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 00:01:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH51wA2016717 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:01:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH51J4S004316; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:01:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH51JEh091152; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:01:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH51FEi091098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:01:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBH52FUZ008722 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:02:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBH52Eso008720 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:02:14 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:02:14 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312170002.14178.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Tuesday 16 December 2003 09:57 am, Kate M Bunting wrote: > I'm STILL waiting for our music group's website to get off the ground so > I can direct people to some pictures of me online. It's been in the > pipeline for a year and more. I'm afraid I haven't any other means of > making pictures available. > I've met Stevie, Jean Waddie, Nicole K. and former listmembers Henk and > Teddy. I don't have a web page yet, either (I'm getting closer to it, though). Nor am I overly blessed with family, at this point. I'm a childless only child, my parents and grandparents are all dead, and my remaining blood relatives are all cousins I'm not terribly close to. My husband has lots of family, but I don't know if there are pictures of any of them on the web. I wanted to send you all the URL for a photo of my husband and me that he used to have on his website, but he must have taken it down or moved it when he revamped the site a few months ago. However, he did post a picture of me recently on his blog. This photo was taken by a mutual friend about 5 years ago: http://esr.ibiblio.org/graphics/cathy-red.jpg -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 00:17:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH5HlA2016738 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:17:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH5HJ4S005379; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:17:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH5HKEh099157; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:17:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH5HIEh099132 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:17:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-50-050.jps.net ([209.165.50.50] helo=pavilion) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AWU3f-0005Hh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:17:16 -0800 Message-ID: <002201c3c45e$05b19580$3232a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:24:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever use whalebone and in BONE? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hBH5HlA2016738 Hi folks and happy holidays to all of you! I bought myself an early present and picked up a baleen frond from ebay for my tailors shop. Anyone who wants to see a pic can see it at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3259894443&category=372&rd=1 . BTW - I think there is enough baleen on the market from legal eskimo whaling if anyone wanted to make a museum quality reproduction corset but I don't know if one has to cut it while it is still fresh or not. Has anyone ever seen a demonstration of how to cut baleen for corset strips? Something puzzles me though. There is another item listed as "4 Victorian Whalebone Scrimshaw Corset Stays" found at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2581618065&category=12 and these really look like and are described as BONE. At only 6 inches they are too short for a busk but don't look flexible at all? Any one with opinions on this one? Just where would these BONES fit on a Victorian corset or is there some error here. Ever interested.... Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com www.maninthemoone.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 04:20:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH9KqA2002663 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 04:20:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH9HW4S019410; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 02:17:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH9HWEh013996; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 02:17:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH9HUEh013979 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 02:17:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.57]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH9HJHd002759 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:17:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031217011537.049c6350@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:16:11 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever use whalebone and in BONE? In-Reply-To: <002201c3c45e$05b19580$3232a5d1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >Something puzzles me though. There is another item listed as "4 Victorian >Whalebone Scrimshaw Corset Stays" found at >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2581618065&category=12 >and these really look like and are described as BONE. At only 6 inches >they are too short for a busk but don't look flexible at all? Any one >with opinions on this one? Just where would these BONES fit on a >Victorian corset or is there some error here. They're called bones alright, and they are used in pairs as percussion instruments, like spoons are. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 04:21:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBH9LhA2002776 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 04:21:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH9Ib4S019461; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 02:18:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH9IfEh014489; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 02:18:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH9HUEh013977 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 02:17:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.57]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBH9HJHb002759 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:17:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031217010959.049b21f0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:12:15 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition In-Reply-To: <20031216225416.23986.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20031216125208.05a36d00@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >What cute little dolls, Kayta! How long have you been doing them now? I've been making dolls for decades now, but this pattern is about two years old. Both the dolls in the picture are from the same pattern. See more on my website www.funstuft.com (the first doll image that comes up shows dolls in three historical periods of underwear, getting ready for some costumed event). >My family is either online, made of cloth, or at a Ren/Dickens' >Faire these days. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 06:38:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHBceA2021810 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 06:38:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHBZf4S027471; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 04:35:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHBZbEh075445; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 04:35:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHBZYEh075382 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 04:35:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE301BEC1E for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:35:20 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FE040D8.9010307@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:41:12 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Mantel pictures :-) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi, Thanks!!!!! To everyone who helped me with this costume!! I just finished the mantel and took some pictures. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 09:09:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHE99A2022906 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:09:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHE8V4S007422; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:08:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHE8WEh050324; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:08:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9402.mail.yahoo.com (web9402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBHE8UEh050308 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:08:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031217140823.89032.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 06:08:23 PST Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 06:08:23 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Mantel pictures :-) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FE040D8.9010307@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com The mantel is lovely Deredere!What is the fabric that you used for it?(can't quite tell from the photo) Albra Deredere Galbraith wrote: Hi, Thanks!!!!! To everyone who helped me with this costume!! I just finished the mantel and took some pictures. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 09:40:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHEe8A2023418 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:40:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHEde4S010043; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:39:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHEdjEh066658; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:39:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHEdhEh066631 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:39:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a237.in-tch.com [66.62.107.37]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBHEI0722084 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:18:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FE06B4E.C9E7D20C@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:42:22 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition References: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com><014301c3c40f$b1738f80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3FDFC66C.B8F3BDCA@in-tch.com> <02dc01c3c456$e6049f40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com S'okay, Mom! I'm actually really good at ripping seams, as long as you let me use a single-edge razor blade. --sue, who sometimes thinks that she bumped up against adolescence and just ran, screaming (I still like to do thing like stomp frozen mud puddles ;o) Penny Ladnier wrote: > > <> You behave or I will have you doing windows or ripping > seams. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Clemenger" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 9:58 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition > > > Penny, can we go back through puberty to a second childhood? > > --sue > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 09:45:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHEjjA2023467 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:45:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHEjH4S010482; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHEjNEh069855; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:45:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHEjLEh069840 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:45:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a237.in-tch.com [66.62.107.37]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBHENd724989 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:23:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FE06CA1.D967F2A5@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:48:01 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Cambridge History of Western Textiles References: <3FDFAEDF.4000008@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thanks, Fran. What's the price range for it, if I may ask? --sue, adding something more to her "after I pay for the loom" list.... Lavolta Press wrote: > > I bought _The Cambridge History of Western Textiles_ when it came out, > which was a couple months ago if I recall. I haven't read it thoroughly > yet, and given its size and my current commitments it will be awhile > before I do. So my comments here are broad and off the cuff. > > It's big and weighs like several bricks. It is an anthology of > scholarly essays, rather than a history to be read through > continuously. It focuses on textiles, not primarily on clothing. It > struck me as strongest for pre-20th-century and even pre-19th-century > eras. It's solid stuff--this is not a beginner introduction. I am very > pleased with it, but I think it's not a necessity for every costumer. I > do think it's a necessity for many libraries, though. > > Anyway, if anyone is worried about ordering a book that may not exist, > it has indeed been published. > > Fran > > Robin Netherton wrote: > > >On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Claudine Wong wrote: > > > > > >It's been talked up for a long time. There were flyers for it, but no > >copies, at K'zoo in May 2003. An English colleague of mine who contributed > >saw it in the flesh around October, so that sounds right. > > > ---------------------------------- > Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 09:59:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHExnA2023583 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:59:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHEvL4S011379; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:57:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHEvREh076767; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:57:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHEvIEh076668 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:57:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-45-068.jps.net ([209.165.45.68] helo=pavilion) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AWd6s-0001kv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 06:57:10 -0800 Message-ID: <001e01c3c4af$0ea633c0$442da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <02ec01c3c3a4$867e8fc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:04:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Nice idea Penny! And a lovely family you have too. Pictures always help me work out who is who. With names every one sharing the same name becomes a composite character to me! The best I can do for a photo at the moment is a scan of my driver's license and my son's school photo. Anyone interested can find them at http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/bulletinboard.htm Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 10:11:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHFBsA2023663 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:11:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHFBN4S012541; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:11:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHFBSEh085280; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:11:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHFBQEh085259 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:11:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-45-068.jps.net ([209.165.45.68] helo=pavilion) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AWdKY-0005eY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:11:18 -0800 Message-ID: <005701c3c4b1$07cc7080$442da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com><014301c3c40f$b1738f80$0400a8c0@comcast.net><3FDFC66C.B8F3BDCA@in-tch.com><02dc01c3c456$e6049f40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3FE06B4E.C9E7D20C@in-tch.com> Subject: Scalpels for Ripping out seams - Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:18:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sue wrote: > S'okay, Mom! I'm actually really good at ripping seams, as long as > you let me use a single-edge razor blade. I know a few folks who us scalpels for ripping out seam in a snap. You can get them at www.valleyvet.com for less than a dollar. I'm definetly going to try this method out! Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com www.maninthemoone.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 10:13:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHFDAA2023669 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:13:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHFCR4S012672; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:12:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHFCXEh086036; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:12:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakemtao01.cox.net (lakemtao01.cox.net [68.1.17.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHFCKEh085832 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:12:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.96.201.18]) by lakemtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031217151204.TQZS23168.lakemtao01.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:12:04 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Heading down to Virginia Beach for the holidays... Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:11:52 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c3c4b0$1d6878e0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031216133159.031ff2f0@earthlink.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hBHFCKEh085832 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi Brenda! Right now the Chrysler Museum in Norfolk is having an exhibition of Flemish and Dutch masters. Hurry though, it ends Dec. 31st. See their website for more info: http://www.chrysler.org/ I'd love to invite you over for an afternoon of costume schmoozing, but we had a fire in the kitchen last week, and well, frankly the place looks like a bomb went off. The restoration company will be here tomorrow through next week to clean things up. We're all fine, all people, dogs, books and fabric are accounted for. Can't say as much for the stove or the walls, however. The truly ironic part is that that on Saturday I made the comment that next tax-refund we should get a new stove, as this one wasn't working very well. Eight hours later, there it went. Enjoy your vacation, there's a lot to do here. ::Linda:: Virginia Beach, Va. You can't always judge by appearances: the early bird may have been up all night. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Brenda Bell Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 2:01 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Heading down to Virginia Beach for the holidays... We'll be headed down Saturday and will be in town for about a week. I remember something about one or more of our listfolk being involved with one of the museums or restorations in Jamestown or Williamsburg? Going back through the archives, it looks like there are a few temporary exhibits at the DeWitt Wallace museum I'd like to take in, and I'm trying to remember if there was anything else I needed to check into in advance of going south? Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 10:59:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHFxMA2024039 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:59:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHFwd4S018731; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:58:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHFwlEh023197; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:58:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHFwiEh023130 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:58:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E81F1BEC43 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:34:26 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FE078E2.9040009@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:40:18 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Mantel pictures :-) References: <20031217140823.89032.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thanks! It is wool and satin ribbons. KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: >The mantel is lovely Deredere!What is the fabric that you used for it?(can't quite tell from the photo) >Albra > >Deredere Galbraith wrote: >Hi, > >Thanks!!!!! To everyone who helped me with this costume!! >I just finished the mantel and took some pictures. >http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html > >Greetings, >Deredere > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 11:57:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com ([204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHGvAA2024320 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:57:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHGt94S024830; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:55:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHGtGEh067125; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:55:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBHGtEEh067100 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:55:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031217165506.16616.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:55:06 PST Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:55:06 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] To line or not to line To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <004501c3c4b5$30d07b80$1d64a8c0@algx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Personally, I would opt for lining the gown. Clothing generally seems to wear better with a lining. And especially if that section is going to be trailing on the ground. Albra (who is sewing in a 'hem guard', as well as lining, along the bottom of her newest mohagoney colored silk Italian ) Cyn Bucheger wrote: A few years ago I had made my version of the 1495 Durer's Venetian Lady ensemble. I used $1 a yard fabric from Wal-Mart and thrift store finds just so I could try out a style that is far from the more tailor Elizabethan looks that I usually do. It was just one of those things that everything worked so well, that the ensemble has seen a lot of use and generated a lot of positive comments even though the fabric was mostly man made stuff. It just all had the right weight and drape and worked. Now I am remaking this ensemble in better fabrics. The underdress is of a light weight black wool. The over dress is going to be of a silk brocaded fabric, one of the Russian ecclesiastic patterns in black and silver. The original had the brocade as the underdress, and the solid color fabric as the overdress(as far as one can tell from the water color), but the quantity of the fabric on hand and the hand of the fabrics dictate that the brocade be the outer garment. My quandary comes in that letting $1 a yard fabric drag on the ground and be stepped on occasionally by other people was not a big deal. I'm having trouble with the idea of letting that fabric that came all the way from Russia, just for me, drag and be stepped on. The structure of the fabric is pretty sturdy, it's not a terribly delicate weaving, but still... should I line the train or not? I have a bit of black linen on hand that I could use, that would be relatively unobtrusive when the train is held, as it will frequently be, but there are times when it will be down... And if I line, how far up should I go? I was hoping to make this all out of stash fabric and I don't have that much of the linen on hand... Cyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 11:57:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com ([204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHGv4A2024314 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:57:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHGnh4S024292; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHGnjEh062290; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:49:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBHGnhEh062258 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:49:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031217164933.73199.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:49:33 PST Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:49:33 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Mantel pictures :-) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FE078E2.9040009@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Very nicely done:) Albra Deredere Galbraith wrote: Thanks! It is wool and satin ribbons. KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: >The mantel is lovely Deredere!What is the fabric that you used for it?(can't quite tell from the photo) >Albra > >Deredere Galbraith wrote: >Hi, > >Thanks!!!!! To everyone who helped me with this costume!! >I just finished the mantel and took some pictures. >http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html > >Greetings, >Deredere > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 12:05:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHH5MA2024342 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:05:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHH3f4S025910; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:03:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHH3mEh074199; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:03:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHH3bEh074066 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:03:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55BFA2F893 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:06:58 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: <005701c3c4b1$07cc7080$442da5d1@pavilion> References: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com><014301c3c40f$b1738f80$0400a8c0@comcast.net><3FDFC66C.B8F3BDCA@in-tch.com><02dc01c3c456$e6049f40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3FE06B4E.C9E7D20C@in-tch.com> <005701c3c4b1$07cc7080$442da5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: Scalpels for Ripping out seams - Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:03:27 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I'm not the only one! yay! They looked at me like I was insane at work when I pulled out a single edge blade for ripping. On Dec 17, 2003, at 7:18 AM, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Sue wrote: > >> S'okay, Mom! I'm actually really good at ripping seams, as long >> as >> you let me use a single-edge razor blade. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 12:05:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHH5jA2024345 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:05:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHH5C4S026044; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:05:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHH5IEh075282; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:05:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHH5GEh075265 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:05:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m135.in-tch.com [216.166.191.135]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBHGhW707052 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:43:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FE08D6A.CCC50804@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:07:54 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] To line or not to line References: <20031217165506.16616.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I agree with Albra--I'd tend to want to line the expensive fabric, as well. You should be able to figure out the sewing bit so that you could replace the lining if it got too nasty. You could also put in one of those fringe-things that show up in at least one of the skirts in Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_. Oh, wait, that might be what Albra is referring to as a "hem guard." --sue, getting herself confused here ;o) KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > > Personally, I would opt for lining the gown. Clothing generally seems to wear better with a lining. And especially if that section is going to be trailing on the ground. > Albra > (who is sewing in a 'hem guard', as well as lining, along the bottom of her newest mohagoney colored silk Italian ) > > Cyn Bucheger wrote: > A few years ago I had made my version of the 1495 Durer's Venetian Lady > ensemble. I used $1 a yard fabric from Wal-Mart and thrift store finds just > so I could try out a style that is far from the more tailor Elizabethan > looks that I usually do. It was just one of those things that everything > worked so well, that the ensemble has seen a lot of use and generated a lot > of positive comments even though the fabric was mostly man made stuff. It > just all had the right weight and drape and worked. > > Now I am remaking this ensemble in better fabrics. The underdress is of a > light weight black wool. The over dress is going to be of a silk brocaded > fabric, one of the Russian ecclesiastic patterns in black and silver. The > original had the brocade as the underdress, and the solid color fabric as > the overdress(as far as one can tell from the water color), but the quantity > of the fabric on hand and the hand of the fabrics dictate that the brocade > be the outer garment. > > My quandary comes in that letting $1 a yard fabric drag on the ground and be > stepped on occasionally by other people was not a big deal. I'm having > trouble with the idea of letting that fabric that came all the way from > Russia, just for me, drag and be stepped on. The structure of the fabric is > pretty sturdy, it's not a terribly delicate weaving, but still... should I > line the train or not? I have a bit of black linen on hand that I could > use, that would be relatively unobtrusive when the train is held, as it will > frequently be, but there are times when it will be down... And if I line, > how far up should I go? I was hoping to make this all out of stash fabric > and I don't have that much of the linen on hand... > > Cyn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 12:05:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHH5vA2024348 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:05:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHH5J4S026063; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:05:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHH5REh075403; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:05:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHH5QEh075368 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:05:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip79.208-187-50.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [208.187.50.79]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E2976A8C9 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:05:14 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:05:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] To line or not to line Message-ID: <3FE01C4B.12868.3E098F52@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <004501c3c4b5$30d07b80$1d64a8c0@algx> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > My quandary comes in that letting $1 a yard fabric drag on the ground > and be stepped on occasionally by other people was not a big deal. > I'm having trouble with the idea of letting that fabric that came all > the way from Russia, just for me, drag and be stepped on. The > structure of the fabric is pretty sturdy, it's not a terribly delicate > weaving, but still... should I line the train or not? I have a bit of > black linen on hand that I could use, that would be relatively > unobtrusive when the train is held, as it will frequently be, but > there are times when it will be down... And if I line, how far up > should I go? I was hoping to make this all out of stash fabric and I > don't have that much of the linen on hand... If the fabric needs to be supported or the back of it protected from snags, you'd want to *interline* the whole thing. (Sew the fashion fabric and "lining" fabric as one.) If you want to just protect the hem area where it touches the floor from drag wear as well as making it look nice if the edge is pulled up, then you can *face* the hem and train area. (Have the lower edge sewn and have the fabric go up as far as you need it to so that if you lifted the hem you would only see the facing.) If you want to improve the hang of the garment or protect the seams from wear, then you would *line* it. (A separate fabric is sewn into the dress which is cut so that it is similar to the fashion fabric but perhaps with expansion vents or sometimes with padding padstitched in areas to make them look smoother.) Each way of doing it has a different purpose. Black linen would be appropriate for each of the purposes mentioned. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 12:31:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHHVZA2024519 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:31:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHFtI4S018411; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:55:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHFtOEh020840; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:55:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHFtKEh020771 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:55:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cbucheger@paclp.com) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id AC5FD4202A6; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:55:11 -0600 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1071676510751; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:55:10 -0600 Message-ID: <004501c3c4b5$30d07b80$1d64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:48:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] To line or not to line X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com A few years ago I had made my version of the 1495 Durer's Venetian Lady ensemble. I used $1 a yard fabric from Wal-Mart and thrift store finds just so I could try out a style that is far from the more tailor Elizabethan looks that I usually do. It was just one of those things that everything worked so well, that the ensemble has seen a lot of use and generated a lot of positive comments even though the fabric was mostly man made stuff. It just all had the right weight and drape and worked. Now I am remaking this ensemble in better fabrics. The underdress is of a light weight black wool. The over dress is going to be of a silk brocaded fabric, one of the Russian ecclesiastic patterns in black and silver. The original had the brocade as the underdress, and the solid color fabric as the overdress(as far as one can tell from the water color), but the quantity of the fabric on hand and the hand of the fabrics dictate that the brocade be the outer garment. My quandary comes in that letting $1 a yard fabric drag on the ground and be stepped on occasionally by other people was not a big deal. I'm having trouble with the idea of letting that fabric that came all the way from Russia, just for me, drag and be stepped on. The structure of the fabric is pretty sturdy, it's not a terribly delicate weaving, but still... should I line the train or not? I have a bit of black linen on hand that I could use, that would be relatively unobtrusive when the train is held, as it will frequently be, but there are times when it will be down... And if I line, how far up should I go? I was hoping to make this all out of stash fabric and I don't have that much of the linen on hand... Cyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 12:36:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHHaJA2024537 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:36:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHHZb4S000139; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:35:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHHZdEh002650; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:35:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9402.mail.yahoo.com (web9402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBHHZbEh002627 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:35:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031217173529.23143.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:35:29 PST Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:35:29 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] To line or not to line To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FE08D6A.CCC50804@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com It's sort of the same idea, Sue--although I usually make my 'hem gaurd' more like a slightly stiff , broader, bias cut facing that gets sewn along the base of the hem--and slip stitched to the lining on the other side. It then can easilly be replaced later when it gets too worn. Albra Sue Clemenger wrote: I agree with Albra--I'd tend to want to line the expensive fabric, as well. You should be able to figure out the sewing bit so that you could replace the lining if it got too nasty. You could also put in one of those fringe-things that show up in at least one of the skirts in Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_. Oh, wait, that might be what Albra is referring to as a "hem guard." --sue, getting herself confused here ;o) KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > > Personally, I would opt for lining the gown. Clothing generally seems to wear better with a lining. And especially if that section is going to be trailing on the ground. > Albra > (who is sewing in a 'hem guard', as well as lining, along the bottom of her newest mohagoney colored silk Italian ) > > Cyn Bucheger wrote: > A few years ago I had made my version of the 1495 Durer's Venetian Lady > ensemble. I used $1 a yard fabric from Wal-Mart and thrift store finds just > so I could try out a style that is far from the more tailor Elizabethan > looks that I usually do. It was just one of those things that everything > worked so well, that the ensemble has seen a lot of use and generated a lot > of positive comments even though the fabric was mostly man made stuff. It > just all had the right weight and drape and worked. > > Now I am remaking this ensemble in better fabrics. The underdress is of a > light weight black wool. The over dress is going to be of a silk brocaded > fabric, one of the Russian ecclesiastic patterns in black and silver. The > original had the brocade as the underdress, and the solid color fabric as > the overdress(as far as one can tell from the water color), but the quantity > of the fabric on hand and the hand of the fabrics dictate that the brocade > be the outer garment. > > My quandary comes in that letting $1 a yard fabric drag on the ground and be > stepped on occasionally by other people was not a big deal. I'm having > trouble with the idea of letting that fabric that came all the way from > Russia, just for me, drag and be stepped on. The structure of the fabric is > pretty sturdy, it's not a terribly delicate weaving, but still... should I > line the train or not? I have a bit of black linen on hand that I could > use, that would be relatively unobtrusive when the train is held, as it will > frequently be, but there are times when it will be down... And if I line, > how far up should I go? I was hoping to make this all out of stash fabric > and I don't have that much of the linen on hand... > > Cyn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 12:40:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHHeAA2024560 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:40:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHHdI4S000668; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHHdQEh005649; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:39:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHHdMEi005598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:39:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-95.sonic.net [209.148.112.95]) (authenticated bits=0) by eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBHHdCdL014001 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:39:13 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE09582.9070108@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:42:26 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Cambridge History of Western Textiles References: <3FDFAEDF.4000008@lavoltapress.com> <3FE06CA1.D967F2A5@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3FE06CA1.D967F2A5@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Your best bet is to search www.addall.com for price comparisons in online bookstores. Best, Fran Sue Clemenger wrote: >Thanks, Fran. What's the price range for it, if I may ask? >--sue, adding something more to her "after I pay for the loom" list.... > > > ---------------------------------- Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 13:33:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHIXqA2024773 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:33:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHIX34S007331; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:33:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHIXAEh053358; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:33:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.sunflower.com (smtp.sunflower.com [24.124.0.128]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHIX8Eh053316 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:33:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mdevries@sunflower.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (newman.sunflower.com [24.124.0.180]) by smtp.sunflower.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hBHIWwf23483 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:32:58 -0600 Message-Id: <200312171832.hBHIWwf23483@smtp.sunflower.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Franklin Web E-mail Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:32:57 -0600 X-Origin-Ip: 129.237.252.19 From: "Margretta de Vries" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: ; from alice@wonderland.com on Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:03:27 -0800 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: Scalpels for Ripping out seams X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I use a single-edge razor, too, but a scalpel sounds like a great idea, since it has a handle! Margretta > Heather Meadows wrote: > > I'm not the only one! yay! They looked at me like I was insane at work when I pulled out a single edge blade for ripping. On Dec 17, 2003, at 7:18 AM, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Sue wrote: > >> S'okay, Mom! I'm actually really good at ripping seams, as long >> as >> you let me use a single-edge razor blade. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 13:39:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHIdjA2024808 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:39:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHId34S008342; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHIdBEh058572; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:39:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav54.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHId7Eh058475 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:39:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:38:53 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav54.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 18:38:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031217165506.16616.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] To line or not to line Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:38:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Dec 2003 18:38:53.0087 (UTC) FILETIME=[052FE2F0:01C3C4CD] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" > Personally, I would opt for lining the gown. Clothing generally seems to wear better with a lining. And especially if that section is going to be trailing on the ground. > Albra > (who is sewing in a 'hem guard', as well as lining, along the bottom of her newest mohagoney colored silk Italian ) I have to agree with you here. Unlined clothing, unless it's really, really thick fabric or meant to be worn this way, often looks flimsy if it's not lined. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 13:41:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHIfSA2024814 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:41:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHIel4S008560; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:40:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHIeuEh060016; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:40:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHIeqEh059954 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:40:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.57]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHIegHZ028666 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:40:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031217103107.05aa16f0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:33:06 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Scalpels for Ripping out seams - Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition In-Reply-To: References: <005701c3c4b1$07cc7080$442da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com> <014301c3c40f$b1738f80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3FDFC66C.B8F3BDCA@in-tch.com> <02dc01c3c456$e6049f40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3FE06B4E.C9E7D20C@in-tch.com> <005701c3c4b1$07cc7080$442da5d1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >I'm not the only one! yay! > >They looked at me like I was insane at work when I pulled out a single >edge blade for ripping. >S'okay, Mom! I'm actually really good at ripping seams, as long as >>>you let me use a single-edge razor blade. Mine had this wicked-looking curved blade - nothing you can take on an airplane. But it comes to this tiny little point at the end, which is just the thing for getting at those recalcitrant tiny little stitches. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 13:58:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHIwfA2024886 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:58:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHIvt4S010520; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHIw3Eh074032; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:58:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHIvjEh073774 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:57:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBHIvIN2000824 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:57:18 -0500 Message-ID: <00b301c3c4cf$97de52b0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FE01C4B.12868.3E098F52@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] To line or not to line Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:57:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I thought that interlining was putting another layer or layers of fabric between the fashion fabric and the lining. Learn something new every day! :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] To line or not to line > > > My quandary comes in that letting $1 a yard fabric drag on the ground > > and be stepped on occasionally by other people was not a big deal. > > I'm having trouble with the idea of letting that fabric that came all > > the way from Russia, just for me, drag and be stepped on. The > > structure of the fabric is pretty sturdy, it's not a terribly delicate > > weaving, but still... should I line the train or not? I have a bit of > > black linen on hand that I could use, that would be relatively > > unobtrusive when the train is held, as it will frequently be, but > > there are times when it will be down... And if I line, how far up > > should I go? I was hoping to make this all out of stash fabric and I > > don't have that much of the linen on hand... > > If the fabric needs to be supported or the back of it protected from > snags, you'd want to *interline* the whole thing. (Sew the fashion > fabric and "lining" fabric as one.) > > If you want to just protect the hem area where it touches the floor > from drag wear as well as making it look nice if the edge is pulled > up, then you can *face* the hem and train area. (Have the lower edge > sewn and have the fabric go up as far as you need it to so that if > you lifted the hem you would only see the facing.) > > If you want to improve the hang of the garment or protect the seams > from wear, then you would *line* it. (A separate fabric is sewn into > the dress which is cut so that it is similar to the fashion fabric > but perhaps with expansion vents or sometimes with padding > padstitched in areas to make them look smoother.) > > Each way of doing it has a different purpose. Black linen would be > appropriate for each of the purposes mentioned. > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 14:09:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHJ9UA2024933 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:09:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJ8t4S012158; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:08:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJ92Eh084034; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:09:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJ90Eh083911 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:09:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.81.18c671d (4320) for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:08:36 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <81.18c671d.2d1203b4@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:08:36 EST Subject: Re: Scalpels for Ripping out seams - Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/17/2003 1:41:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@frys.com writes: Mine had this wicked-looking curved blade - nothing you can take on an airplane. But it comes to this tiny little point at the end, which is just the thing for getting at those recalcitrant tiny little stitches. I use the German-made ripper that Hancock Fabrics sells. It is retractible, with one end tweezers and the other the ripper. In fact, I have 2 or 3 of them. I find them very satisfactory--much more so than the cheaper ones that always seem to have a rough spot. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 14:12:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHJC9A2024939 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:12:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJBT4S012462; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:11:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJBcEh085995; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:11:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJBWEh085847 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:11:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.cf.17f66dd (4320) for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:11:08 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:11:08 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] To line or not to line To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/17/2003 1:58:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, bkessinger@ureach.com writes: thought that interlining was putting another layer or layers of fabric between the fashion fabric and the lining. Learn something new every day! :) I think you are correct. The technique of sewing fabric and lining as one is usually referred to as underlining or flat lining. Making the lining separate and applying it to finish the inside of a garment is also called bag lining. And interlining is putting in another layer--often used when making coats, to add a heavy layer of fleece to the lining, for example. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 14:39:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHJdQA2025033 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:39:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJcp4S015428; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:38:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJcxEh007053; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJcsEh006944 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:38:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC0E425CE for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:46:48 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FE0B26B.5030300@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:45:47 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] working with Folkwear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I've heard many good things about the Folkwear line of patterns and I've finally got an excuse to make one. I'm making up the Bolivian Jacket out of some luscious mustard silk noil and a rust colored dupion I've had in my stash nearly a decade. What I'd like to know is, does the pattern sizing run true, and how is the ease in this pattern? I'm wondering if this will be like a Butterick pattern where I have to cut two sizes smaller than they suggest, or what. I looked at the GBACG reviews and people don't say much about the patterns for this company other than they like them. I am making a muslin, and a test jacket from leftover wool before I cut the silk, I'd just like to know what to expect from this pattern. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 14:45:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHJjeA2025058 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:45:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJin4S016153; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:44:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJivEh011818; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:44:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav61.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJitEh011718 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:44:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:44:40 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav61.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 19:44:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FE0B26B.5030300@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] working with Folkwear Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:44:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Dec 2003 19:44:40.0426 (UTC) FILETIME=[35FC04A0:01C3C4D6] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com IMHO Folkwear's sizing is really accurate and I'm an addict to the company. They are also fairly easy to redraft for sizing which is always a bonus. Just don't forget...don't cut them they are too precious *G* Bice Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2003 2:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] working with Folkwear > I've heard many good things about the Folkwear line of patterns and I've > finally got an excuse to make one. I'm making up the Bolivian Jacket out > of some luscious mustard silk noil and a rust colored dupion I've had in > my stash nearly a decade. What I'd like to know is, does the pattern > sizing run true, and how is the ease in this pattern? I'm wondering if > this will be like a Butterick pattern where I have to cut two sizes > smaller than they suggest, or what. > > I looked at the GBACG reviews and people don't say much about the > patterns for this company other than they like them. > > I am making a muslin, and a test jacket from leftover wool before I cut > the silk, I'd just like to know what to expect from this pattern. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 14:49:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHJn6A2025095 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:49:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJm84S016392; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:48:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJmHEh014359; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:48:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav43.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJmFEh014267 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:48:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:48:00 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav43.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 19:48:00 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FE0B26B.5030300@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] working with Folkwear Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:47:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Dec 2003 19:48:00.0410 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD2F27A0:01C3C4D6] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I've found that ease changes depending on the style you are making. Chinese Cheongsam didn't have much ease, but Turkish Dancer had a lot. Sizes have been good for me, but I'd actually need X-Small shoulders and they usually don't go that small. Making a muslin is a good idea :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 2:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] working with Folkwear > I've heard many good things about the Folkwear line of patterns and I've > finally got an excuse to make one. I'm making up the Bolivian Jacket out > of some luscious mustard silk noil and a rust colored dupion I've had in > my stash nearly a decade. What I'd like to know is, does the pattern > sizing run true, and how is the ease in this pattern? I'm wondering if > this will be like a Butterick pattern where I have to cut two sizes > smaller than they suggest, or what. > > I looked at the GBACG reviews and people don't say much about the > patterns for this company other than they like them. > > I am making a muslin, and a test jacket from leftover wool before I cut > the silk, I'd just like to know what to expect from this pattern. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 14:59:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHJxXA2025122 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:59:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJwl4S017615; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:58:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJwtEh022680; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:58:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHJwsEh022650 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:58:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A0482F8A1 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:02:12 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <69CCB484-30CB-11D8-9441-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] drawn bonnet Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:58:41 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Kelly - I just have to say you have been SO immensely helpful! I really appreciate your assistance with this. I'm having so much fun with my bonnet, and I'll send more photos when it's all trimmed! On Dec 13, 2003, at 8:17 AM, Kelly Dorman wrote: > I found a view pictures that I hope will help, > > http://themantuamaker.net/dressybonnets > > The rust coloured bonnet in the top row shows a good example of a > capote back, most of the rest show "hard-backs" which are backed in > buckram. The black one in the top row is a good example of adding > caning as trim, as opposed to caning the entire bonnet (and I > misspoke, the caned trim is on the brim, not the crown - bonnets have > only very small crowns at the back) > > http://www.antique-fashion.com/2203.htm > > This is earlier, but again shows a capote-type back. > > The more original bonnets I see leads me to believe there's not a > whole lot you can do "wrong" as long as you have the correct > foundation shaping (which you do) and are careful to stay away from > obviously modern - read plastic - trimmings; it seems that just about > anything goes for bonnets! > Kelly > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 15:35:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHKZnA2025230 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:35:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHKZ54S021110; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHKZDEh050668; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:35:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHKYeEh050142 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:34:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003121720342401100ik2i3e>; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:34:24 +0000 Message-ID: <3FE0BDDA.6070305@fenris.net> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:34:34 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] working with Folkwear References: <3FE0B26B.5030300@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3FE0B26B.5030300@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Dawn wrote: > I've heard many good things about the Folkwear line of patterns and > I've finally got an excuse to make one. I'm making up the Bolivian > Jacket out of some luscious mustard silk noil and a rust colored > dupion I've had in my stash nearly a decade. What I'd like to know is, > does the pattern sizing run true, and how is the ease in this pattern? > I'm wondering if this will be like a Butterick pattern where I have to > cut two sizes smaller than they suggest, or what. > > I looked at the GBACG reviews and people don't say much about the > patterns for this company other than they like them. > > I am making a muslin, and a test jacket from leftover wool before I > cut the silk, I'd just like to know what to expect from this pattern. The Bolivian Jacket is an older pattern, I don't know if it has been revised in the last few years (Folkwear is slowly extending their pattern sizing into larger sizes, I think the original patterns only went to a 12 or 14). So, if it has been revised, I don't know if that affects the sizing of the pattern. Measure the waist and bust of the pattern pieces and compare those measurements to yours. You might also check the back width across the shoulder blades if that is a problem area for you. Oh, and back length. I drafted this pattern up to about a size 20 a few months (ok, 1/2 a year ago!) and didn't have too many problems with the fit, except it was still too short even after adding what I thought would be enough! (making the view with the gusseted gores - I have some wild printed corduroy to use). Once I take tomorrows final, I'll attack my huge backlog of projects! liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 16:37:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHLbAA2025416 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:37:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHLaN4S027547; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:36:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHLaSEh000627; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:36:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHLa4Eh000292 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:36:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip79.208-187-50.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [208.187.50.79]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A7796ABDB for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:35:52 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:35:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] To line or not to line Message-ID: <3FE05BAE.29333.3F012A19@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00b301c3c4cf$97de52b0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > I thought that interlining was putting another layer or layers of > fabric between the fashion fabric and the lining. Learn something new > every day! :) Interlining, flat-lining and underlining are all the same thing. Which it's called depends on who writes the books. There are also a couple of other terms that mean the same thing. But they are different than lining or facing. But your "putting another layer or layers of fabric between the fashion fabric and the lining" is the same thing. It just usually isn't put in as an independantly floating thing like linings generally are. Many people only think of interlining for the area of the collar on tailored garments or for cuffs and the like, but it can be far more extensive than that. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 17:24:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBHMO7A2025615 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:24:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHMNF4S002563; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:23:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHMNNEh037796; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:23:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHMNJEh037737 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:23:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.104] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A558326F002E; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:14:48 -0500 Message-ID: <002201c3c4ec$fcf2c380$685183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FE0B26B.5030300@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] working with Folkwear Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:27:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com My own experience has been that the earlier patterns were fairly true to their declared sizing. I have found that their 19th-20th C historical patterns run slightly larger than expected. There may be two things (at least) going on here. #1, ethnic fit differs from country to country. One needs to have a feel for how the costume is supposed to fit in situ. If you are looking for a contemporary fashion, you may have to tweak the pattern for modern style. #2. We expect a more relaxed fit in garments of our present Western fashion, and like the discussion of the dirndl last week, have a myriad collection of ideas as to what it might look like and how to distinguish the "real" from ersatz. I've made many of the ethnic pattern through the years and wear them all the time as my everyday garb...just because I like the variety of styles and they are fun to work up in some of the interesting fabrics one finds on the run Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 2:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] working with Folkwear > I've heard many good things about the Folkwear line of patterns and I've > finally got an excuse to make one. I'm making up the Bolivian Jacket out > of some luscious mustard silk noil and a rust colored dupion I've had in > my stash nearly a decade. What I'd like to know is, does the pattern > sizing run true, and how is the ease in this pattern? I'm wondering if > this will be like a Butterick pattern where I have to cut two sizes > smaller than they suggest, or what. > > I looked at the GBACG reviews and people don't say much about the > patterns for this company other than they like them. > > I am making a muslin, and a test jacket from leftover wool before I cut > the silk, I'd just like to know what to expect from this pattern. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 22:26:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBI3QeA2027242 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:26:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI3PK4S027942; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:25:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI3P5Mc045666; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:25:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI3P4Mc045583 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:25:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB636425CE for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:33:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FE11FB9.2050908@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:32:09 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] working with Folkwear References: <3FE0B26B.5030300@reddawn.net> <002201c3c4ec$fcf2c380$685183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <002201c3c4ec$fcf2c380$685183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thanks to everyone who had comments to share. I have one of the older patterns, priced at $5.50 or so, with yellowing paper... Goes to size 14 which is what they suggest I cut according to my measurements. I traced it onto interfacing and then used that as a pattern on some dark grey linen I was planning to use for a lining. I measured myself against the pattern and found the pattern was way too big --I'm a 36" bust and minus seam allowances I was looking at 42" of paper, but I figured I would baste it together and then see what needed adjusting. And somehow once it was sewn it fit pretty well. It's a little high on the back of the neck, which is typical for me, but otherwise it's fine. I'm altering the neckline and the sleeve cuffs to make it more typical of the mid 1500's peasant jackets I see, as I'll be wearing it at an event in February. If this works out well I will make the silk one for modern day evening wear. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 22:36:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBI3aTA2027255 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:36:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI3Zo4S028731; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:35:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI3ZoMc054052; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:35:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI3ZjMd054009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:35:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBI3amUZ011866 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:36:48 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBI3amMw011864 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:36:48 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] working with Folkwear Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:36:47 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FE0B26B.5030300@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312172236.47862.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Wednesday 17 December 2003 02:47 pm, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > I've found that ease changes depending on the style you are making. Chinese > Cheongsam didn't have much ease, but Turkish Dancer had a lot. Sizes have > been good for me, but I'd actually need X-Small shoulders and they usually > don't go that small. Making a muslin is a good idea :-) I've found them to run pretty true to modern sizes--but then most of the Folkwear garments I've made weren't fitted garments. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 22:44:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBI3iHA2027265 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:44:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI3he4S029421; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:43:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI3heMc059072; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:43:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI3hbMd059046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:43:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBI3ifUZ011986 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:44:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBI3ieA7011984 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:44:40 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Scalpels for Ripping out seams - Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:44:40 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com> <005701c3c4b1$07cc7080$442da5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312172244.40507.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Wednesday 17 December 2003 12:03 pm, Heather Meadows wrote: > I'm not the only one! yay! > > They looked at me like I was insane at work when I pulled out a single > edge blade for ripping. Sounds like a great idea to me. I've used Exacto knives, myself, because I have no friends in medicine and no easy access to scalpels. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 22:50:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBI3oxA2027277 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:50:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI3oK4S029857; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:50:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI3oKMc062517; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:50:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI3oIMc062497 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:50:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQ20085WNZSRH@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 19:50:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 19:48:21 -0800 From: Kimiko Small In-reply-to: <005701c3c4b1$07cc7080$442da5d1@pavilion> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031217194732.01f98cc8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com> <014301c3c40f$b1738f80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3FDFC66C.B8F3BDCA@in-tch.com> <02dc01c3c456$e6049f40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3FE06B4E.C9E7D20C@in-tch.com> Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Scalpels for Ripping out seams X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 07:18 AM 12/17/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I know a few folks who us scalpels for ripping out seam in a snap. You can >get them at www.valleyvet.com for less than a dollar. I'm definetly going >to try this method out! Hi Lisa Any idea which of the three subsites would have the scalpels? I don't see a search feature on the front page, and am not sure where to dig in. Thanks! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 23:12:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBI4C0A2027389 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:12:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI4B64S001495; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:11:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI4B4Mc072549; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:11:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI4B0Mc072502 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:11:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-57-185.jps.net ([209.165.57.185] helo=pavilion) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AWpV4-0004DN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:10:59 -0800 Message-ID: <003201c3c51d$ec29ed40$b939a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com><014301c3c40f$b1738f80$0400a8c0@comcast.net><3FDFC66C.B8F3BDCA@in-tch.com><02dc01c3c456$e6049f40$0400a8c0@comcast.net><3FE06B4E.C9E7D20C@in-tch.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031217194732.01f98cc8@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Scalpels for Ripping out seams Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:17:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Yes Kimiko, hit the middle image for "Farm" and the next page has a search field. Enter "scalpels" with an "S" and a small assortment come up. I'm definitely going to try this seam ripping method out as it sounds like a great idea. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 7:48 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Scalpels for Ripping out seams > At 07:18 AM 12/17/2003 -0800, you wrote: > >I know a few folks who us scalpels for ripping out seam in a snap. You can > >get them at www.valleyvet.com for less than a dollar. I'm definetly going > >to try this method out! > > > Hi Lisa > > Any idea which of the three subsites would have the scalpels? I don't see a > search feature on the front page, and am not sure where to dig in. > > Thanks! > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 17 23:51:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBI4pPA2027505 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:51:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI4lm4S004481; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI4llMc090750; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:47:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI4liMc090687 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:47:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a210.in-tch.com [66.62.107.10]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBI4PGN26761 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:25:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FE131E3.48C3F0E0@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:49:39 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] To line or not to line References: <3FE05BAE.29333.3F012A19@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com When I was doing more late-period stuff (uh, 16th c), I interlined my bodices. Works really well to, well, hold the girls up when wearing ItalianRen, too. I started out using a heavy cotton canvas, but ended up with *severe* shrinkage problems, even after some serious pre-washing. So after a while, I just used a couple of layers of really-heavy non-woven, sew-in interfacing. --sue kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Many people only think of interlining for the area of the collar on > tailored garments or for cuffs and the like, but it can be far more > extensive than that. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 02:06:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBI76jA2030137 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 02:06:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI72b4S012083; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 00:02:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI72ZMc057807; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 00:02:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI72XMc057779 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 00:02:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQ20074UWTNYQ@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:01:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:59:06 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Scalpels for Ripping out seams In-reply-to: <003201c3c51d$ec29ed40$b939a5d1@pavilion> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031217225733.00b0b0c0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com> <014301c3c40f$b1738f80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3FDFC66C.B8F3BDCA@in-tch.com> <02dc01c3c456$e6049f40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3FE06B4E.C9E7D20C@in-tch.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031217194732.01f98cc8@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 08:17 PM 12/17/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Yes Kimiko, hit the middle image for "Farm" and the next page has a search >field. Enter "scalpels" with an "S" and a small assortment come up. I'm >definitely going to try this seam ripping method out as it sounds like a >great idea. > >Lisa Thanks Lisa! I like what I see. Now to figure out just how many I would really need. One for my sewing room, one for my hand sewing kit, one for my faire kit, and a few for backups because I loose things so easily. Thank goodness they are so cheap (relatively speaking). Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 02:16:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBI7GgA2001490 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 02:16:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI7Fv4S012895; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 00:15:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI7FxMc063957; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 00:15:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI7FwMc063947 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 00:15:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.57]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBI7FsnN016085 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:15:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031217231427.056b1a20@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:15:25 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Scalpels for Ripping out seams - Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition In-Reply-To: <200312172244.40507.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20031216022619.057b04a0@mail.frys.com> <005701c3c4b1$07cc7080$442da5d1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >Sounds like a great idea to me. I've used Exacto knives, myself, because I >have no friends in medicine and no easy access to scalpels. :-) Check out the full line of Xacto blades. Some are very scalpel-like, and they can be bought several to a package. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 09:21:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIELqA2001014 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:21:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIEKs4S006424; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:20:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIEKtMc056605; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:20:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIEKrMc056551 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:20:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sewinggoddess@att.net) Received: from 204.127.135.30 ([204.127.135.30]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <20031218142041111006bktje>; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:20:41 +0000 Received: from [67.9.29.20] by 204.127.135.30; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:20:40 +0000 From: sewinggoddess@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever use whalebone and in BONE? Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:20:40 +0000 Message-Id: <121820031420.21642.4965@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2V3aW5nZ29kZGVzc0BhdHQubmV0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Lisa, Wow what a score on that baleen frond! I had bought a book out in Colorado at Miramont Castle when my sister took me there this past summer. The book is titled _ Authentic Victorian Dressmaking Techniques_ , edited by Kristina Harris. It is a Dover reprint of Butterick's 1905 book_ Dressmaking, Up to Date_. The bibliographical note says this is an unabridged reprint of the original, and in the intro they say this original is so rare"even Butterick's archives do not contain a copy". New ISBN number is 0-486-40485-4 . In the section marked "Draped Waists" the book talks about using whalebone for the home sewer. "Whalebone may be bought in strips one-yard long, about three yards being required to bone a waist. Get a medium-weight quality and let the whalebone soak in warm water to soften, so the needle can be passed through it." " A bone is slipped into the casing just formed at each side of the closing, allowing it to reach to within an inch of the top of the first dart, and sewed through the lining and the bone near the top to hold it in place. Round the ends of the bones and shave them for half an inch to make the bone thinner there, using a dull knife or blade of the scissors." And that is the entirety of how to cut whalebone in this book! The same section goes into what direction the proper curve and spring of the whalebone for the different seams, and guidelines on lengths to cut for proper fitting, but nothing else on tools needed to cut. Overall the book is a great source for early 20th/late 19th century dressmaking and sewing techniques. Even includes a section on children's and infant's wear. And lots of pictures!!!!!1 All black and white, but they all show techniques and sewing processes. I don't think there is a page in the book without a photo or drawing, except for the intro. I hope this helps some. Crissy > Hi folks and happy holidays to all of you! > > I bought myself an early present and picked up a baleen frond from ebay for my > tailors shop. Anyone who wants to see a pic can see it at > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3259894443&category=372&rd=1 > . BTW - I think there is enough baleen on the market from legal eskimo whaling > if anyone wanted to make a museum quality reproduction corset but I don't know > if one has to cut it while it is still fresh or not. Has anyone ever seen a > demonstration of how to cut baleen for corset strips? > > Something puzzles me though. There is another item listed as "4 Victorian > Whalebone Scrimshaw Corset Stays" found at > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2581618065&category=12 and > these really look like and are described as BONE. At only 6 inches they are too > short for a busk but don't look flexible at all? Any one with opinions on this > one? Just where would these BONES fit on a Victorian corset or is there some > error here. > > Ever interested.... > > Lisa Sinervo > > www.thrednedlestrete.com > www.maninthemoone.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 10:06:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIF67A2001129 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:06:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIF4i4S009705; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:04:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIF4nMc083291; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:04:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40111.mail.yahoo.com (web40111.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBIF4lMc083252 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:04:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031218150435.10901.qmail@web40111.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.22.204] by web40111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:04:35 PST Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:04:35 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] hem guards X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com After reading the post yesterday (interlining) I was intrigued with hem guards. What a great way to save the bottom of my waaaaay out of budget fabric. How do I attatch one? Is it like Bias tape for the bottom of my dress? I thought about a wide hem guard (4-6 inches) and possibly heavily embroider it? This would be for my tudor era court gown. Any help much appreciated- Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 10:22:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIFMDA2001167 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:22:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFLL4S011049; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:21:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFLQMc094040; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:21:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFLNMc094014 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:21:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBIFLFN2026430 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:21:15 -0500 Message-ID: <00b601c3c57a$93fba390$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:21:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Birbari X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I had to share this... I have been trying to get my hands on Birbari and Herald for some time now. I know I can ILL them, but I want my own copies. Finally, I was able to be the "winner" of a Birbari on ABEbooks. It only cost me $115. I know... but I have seen it go for over $200. Anyway, I also ordered a bunch of other books from the Herald bibliography. I had to go to the post office to pick up a book that was sent registered mail. I was so excited because I knew my Birbari had finally arrived. I was fully ready to do the book dance (and I know you all know what that is!!). When he brought the package to me, I was crestfallen because it was a small package. Surely this was one of the other books I had ordered. It wasn't. This book is tiny!! It is about the size of a piece of paper folded in half and an inch (or less) thick! I haven't had a chance yet to sit down and go through the book and I know that the information inside will be wonderful. Some items definitely caught my eye when I thumbed through it. I just thought it was funny how we build something up in our mind and want it so badly... then when you get it, you think "No really... bring out the real one!" Teena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 10:32:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIFVxA2001191 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:32:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFUw4S011822; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:30:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFV4Mc099880; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:31:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFUsMc099774 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:31:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AX06q-0005aV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:30:40 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] hem guards Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:29:35 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01c3c57b$e5d69340$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20031218150435.10901.qmail@web40111.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hBIFUsMc099774 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I have been asked to do the same on a commission for a farthingale. I was going to put a tuck near the bottom and thin band of ultra suede on the bottom itself. But the whole thing has made me wonder about how often they did this. I remember seeing somewhere, but who knows where, about them in documentation. But with a Tudor gown it would seem that you want it to just skim the floor and not touch it. If you have a train on the back then it is sort of a moot point right? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of me Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 8:05 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] hem guards After reading the post yesterday (interlining) I was intrigued with hem guards. What a great way to save the bottom of my waaaaay out of budget fabric. How do I attatch one? Is it like Bias tape for the bottom of my dress? I thought about a wide hem guard (4-6 inches) and possibly heavily embroider it? This would be for my tudor era court gown. Any help much appreciated- Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 10:34:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIFYIA2001201 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:34:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFWn4S011971; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:32:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFWtMc001153; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hiram.io.com (root@hiram.io.com [199.170.88.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFWpMc001116 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:32:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (IDENT:qjxq8451AkDO2J3s6tUaO41QKRvEB7QL@columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by hiram.io.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBIFWkt30533 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:32:46 -0600 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id hBIFVxDh024308 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:32:09 -0600 Received: from 199.50.29.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:32:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36860.199.50.29.40.1071761529.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:32:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birbari From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: In-Reply-To: <00b601c3c57a$93fba390$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> References: <00b601c3c57a$93fba390$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com For those that do not have them yet be aware that the little corset book and the little bodice book are similarly sized and format. Very shocking when I got mine too. *wink* Chiara Teena Paradise said: > I had to share this... > > I have been trying to get my hands on Birbari and Herald for some time > now. I know I can ILL them, but I want my own copies. Finally, I was > able to be the "winner" of a Birbari on ABEbooks. It only cost me $115. > I know... but I have seen it go for over $200. Anyway, I also ordered a > bunch of other books from the Herald bibliography. I had to go to the > post office to pick up a book that was sent registered mail. I was so > excited because I knew my Birbari had finally arrived. I was fully ready > to do the book dance (and I know you all know what that is!!). When he > brought the package to me, I was crestfallen because it was a small > package. Surely this was one of the other books I had ordered. It > wasn't. This book is tiny!! It is about the size of a piece of paper > folded in half and an inch (or less) thick! I haven't had a chance yet > to sit down and go through the book and I know that the information > inside will be wonderful. Some items definitely caught my eye when I > thumbed through it. I just thought it was funny how we build something > up in our mind and want it so badly... then when you get it, you think > "No really... bring out the real one!" > > Teena > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Ches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 10:40:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIFe2A2001222 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFY94S012077; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:34:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFYGMc002051; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:34:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFYFMc001982 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:34:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Gia_Gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.114 ([204.127.197.114]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20031218153402014000lkoue>; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:34:02 +0000 Received: from [128.95.168.90] by 204.127.197.114; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:34:01 +0000 From: Gia_Gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] To line or not to line Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:34:01 +0000 Message-Id: <121820031534.16050.b8f@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 27 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: R2lhX0dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Greetings all! I de-lurk for a few moments. I've not followed this thread, so *please* forgive me, one and all, if I repeat something already stated or if my reply is not 'exactly' appropriate. Basically from my sewing experience, I find that a garment that needs a graceful, flowing appearance, a good medium weight lining fabric (not the flimsy stuff made of acetate/polyester *called* lining in fabric stores today) greatly helps. In period, if the garment is not lined, try to use a material that would provide the appropriate appearance. If that is impossible, then lining to get a "reasonable facsimille" of the appearance you want is a good idea. Generally, I *try* to follow (what I call) my fiber use guidlines: natural fibers should be teamed with natural fibers. If I have to use a sythetic outer shell, then try to use mid weight linen or mid-weight silk. Obviously, due to various modern limitations I can't even follow my own guideline. But, overall, I try to get the appearance I want, and do what it takes to make that happen. The more structured the garment, the more I pay attention to the "Innards" of the garment. If the garment will be absoulutely fitted to the max or used to shape the body, then not only is the garment lined, it will have "Horsehair Interfacing", twill tape and any other material needed to secure the shape. "What is horsehair interfacing?" This interfacing is kind of hard to find. I've trained the local fabric stores (Joanne's and Pacific Fabrics in Everett WA), to carry this material. It is usually found in the more expensive fabric stores. Horsehair interfacing is available woven in polyester with some horsehair (usually the cheapest around $3-5), then there is the wool/horsehar/rayon blend (about $7-9). Why use horsehair? It is very stable and endures garment wearing stress very well; and it seldom shrinks. Typically, when I make my Italian Ren gowns, I *fully* line the bodice with horsehair, and grade the seam allowances so they are not so bulky. Where I think there will be considerable stress (in all directions), I add sewing twill tape in the seam allowance. On my articulated sleeves, I also line with horsehair interfacing, if the outer shell fabric is lightweight. That keeps the sleeves looking nice and 'crisp'. The best twill tape is found in the drapery section of most fabric stores. It's cheaper to buy (around .30 to $1 a yard, depending on width) and it comes in various widths. Be sure to look at the fiber content! I like using cotton twill tape because it just 'handles' better, but the polyester blends are ok, too. Anyhow, that's all I have time for... Happy stitches to you all! Gia/Giacinta > When I was doing more late-period stuff (uh, 16th c), I interlined my > bodices. Works really well to, well, hold the girls up when wearing > ItalianRen, too. > I started out using a heavy cotton canvas, but ended up with *severe* > shrinkage problems, even after some serious pre-washing. So after a > while, I just used a couple of layers of really-heavy non-woven, sew-in > interfacing. > --sue > > kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > > > Many people only think of interlining for the area of the collar on > > tailored garments or for cuffs and the like, but it can be far more > > extensive than that. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 10:47:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIFlOA2001249 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:47:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFkA4S013162; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:46:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFkGMc010039; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:46:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIFkEMc009997 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:46:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-46-194.jps.net ([209.165.46.194] helo=pavilion) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AX0KN-0003b0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:45:17 -0800 Message-ID: <002d01c3c57e$d510b920$c22ea5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <121820031420.21642.4965@att.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever use whalebone and in BONE? Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:27:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thanks for the working with whalebone info! Your email is a print up and add to the tailor's shop info binder item! Although realistically I doubt I could actually work with baleen as I've been a vegetarian for 27 years and can't even cope with cutting up a chicken! But for educational purposes anyway, I'm interested in knowing how the material handels. Hopefully some reasonably priced bones (of baleen) from an old corset will hit the market that way I can pick some up that have already been trimmed and have both raw baleen and the corset bones in the shop. I wish I had all the time in the world to add some Victorian dressmaking into my costuming! Those Dicken's faires sound fun. And 17th century, and...... Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever use whalebone and in BONE? > Lisa, > > Wow what a score on that baleen frond! > > I had bought a book out in Colorado at Miramont Castle when my sister took > me there this past summer. The book is titled _ Authentic Victorian > Dressmaking Techniques_ , edited by Kristina Harris. It is a Dover reprint of > Butterick's 1905 book_ Dressmaking, Up to Date_. The bibliographical note says > this is an unabridged reprint of the original, and in the intro they say this > original is so rare"even Butterick's archives do not contain a copy". New > ISBN number is 0-486-40485-4 . > > In the section marked "Draped Waists" the book talks about using whalebone > for the home sewer. "Whalebone may be bought in strips one-yard long, about > three yards being required to bone a waist. Get a medium-weight quality and > let the whalebone soak in warm water to soften, so the needle can be passed > through it." > " A bone is slipped into the casing just formed at each side of the > closing, allowing it to reach to within an inch of the top of the first dart, > and sewed through the lining and the bone near the top to hold it in place. > Round the ends of the bones and shave them for half an inch to make the bone > thinner there, using a dull knife or blade of the scissors." > > And that is the entirety of how to cut whalebone in this book! The same > section goes into what direction the proper curve and spring of the whalebone > for the different seams, and guidelines on lengths to cut for proper fitting, > but nothing else on tools needed to cut. > > Overall the book is a great source for early 20th/late 19th century > dressmaking and sewing techniques. Even includes a section on children's and > infant's wear. And lots of pictures!!!!!1 All black and white, but they all > show techniques and sewing processes. I don't think there is a page in the > book without a photo or drawing, except for the intro. > > I hope this helps some. > > Crissy > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 11:11:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIGBMA2001305 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:11:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIGAN4S016032; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:10:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIGATMc027344; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:10:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBIGASMc027330 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:10:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031218161020.19170.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:10:20 PST Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:10:20 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] hem guards To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031218150435.10901.qmail@web40111.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com When I do mine--I do them on the inside of the dress, from the edge of the hem up about 3 to 6 inches, just to protect the edges of the skirt that brushes/hangs down on the floor. I usually use a sturdy bias cut fabric. So, my version, is perhaps, more properly called a 'facing'.I even sew it on like one.Measure where my hemline will be all the way around --and then sew the bias cut strip all the way around the hem, 'right' sides to 'right' sides, then press and flip to inside of dress. Then I slip stitch the upper edge to the lining of skirt. (Have I thoroughly confused you , yet?) I have seen fabric guards attached on the outside of the skirt in contrasting colors. I did one a long time ago--when I attached a band of black velveteen about 6" deep all the way around a deep burgundy skirt, that flipped/folded it around the edge of the hem to the inside of the dress skirt--about 3 inches up--so I'd say I started with a band of fabric totalling 9 " wide.I had cut the skirt in straight panels all the way around, so the black velveteen guards did not need to be bias cut. Made things easier. Apparently it wore fairly well, since the lady friend I made it for is only now thinking of replacing the guard--10 years later:) Hope this helps. Albra me wrote: After reading the post yesterday (interlining) I was intrigued with hem guards. What a great way to save the bottom of my waaaaay out of budget fabric. How do I attatch one? Is it like Bias tape for the bottom of my dress? I thought about a wide hem guard (4-6 inches) and possibly heavily embroider it? This would be for my tudor era court gown. Any help much appreciated- Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 12:05:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIH5WA2001422 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:05:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIH4H4S021908; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:04:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIH4NMc067596; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:04:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIH4JMc067553 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:04:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip71.207-173-100.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.100.71]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191346AC50 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:04:09 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:04:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birbari Message-ID: <3FE16D85.5669.432F0670@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00b601c3c57a$93fba390$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > I have been trying to get my hands on Birbari and Herald for some time > now. I know I can ILL them, but I want my own copies. Finally, I was > able to be the "winner" of a Birbari on ABEbooks. It only cost me > $115. I know... but I have seen it go for over $200. Congratulations! Hopefully you'll find a Herald too. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 12:10:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIHAcA2001439 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:10:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIH744S022235; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:07:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIH7BMc069753; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:07:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIH78Mc069697 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:07:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18002 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:33:36 -0600 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:33:36 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birbari In-Reply-To: <00b601c3c57a$93fba390$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Teena Paradise wrote: > I have been trying to get my hands on Birbari and Herald for some time > now. This book is tiny!! It is about the size of a piece of paper > folded in half and an inch (or less) thick! This is "Dress in Italian Painting"? I just checked a couple of library catalogs that both say it's "114 p., [18] leaves of plates : ill. ; 23 cm." That's nine inches tall... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 12:17:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIHHQA2001453 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:17:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIHGM4S023302; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:16:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIHGTMc076738; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:16:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIHGRMc076712 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:16:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip71.207-173-100.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.100.71]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B8836A995 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:16:14 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:15:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] hem guards Message-ID: <3FE1704D.16008.4339E362@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031218150435.10901.qmail@web40111.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > After reading the post yesterday (interlining) I was intrigued with > hem guards. What a great way to save the bottom of my waaaaay out of > budget fabric. How do I attatch one? Is it like Bias tape for the > bottom of my dress? I thought about a wide hem guard (4-6 inches) and > possibly heavily embroider it? This would be for my tudor era court > gown. Any help much appreciated- Angelique It depends on which part of the hem you are "guarding." In the Tudor era the guards tended to be the trim on the bottom of the dress. You can look at pictures to see how wide. There are still some extant ones from later in the 16th century such as in the V&A textile collection. The ones for the outside tend to be quite elaborate and could be moved from one dress to another when the original dress wore out, became damaged or outgrown. If you want to have the underside of the hem "guarded" you would do it similar to attaching bias tape but I would suggest a shaped facing. It can be fairly narrow (4-6") so that only the hem itself is protected. I would not recommend putting any embroidery on it, as it would make it more likely to catch and would wear more poorly. After all, the reason for it is to have the area protected by something relatively expendable. You could also make it much wider if you wanted to be able to have it prettier further up the dress, but Tudor dresses don't usually get the hems gathered up much. (But you might face the inside front edges of a split skirt since those sometimes do flip back.) The wider ones sometimes need to have a lining to attach to for support since the additional weight makes it difficult to just attach them to the seams and/or main fabric without it pulling. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 12:22:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIHM5A2001471 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:22:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIHL84S023978; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:21:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIHLBMc080421; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:21:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIHL8Mc080378 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:21:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBIHL0N2000801 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:21:00 -0500 Message-ID: <01a301c3c58b$4e50f3c0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birbari Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:20:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Yes, its 8.75 in x 5.75 in. A piece of standard notebook paper folded in half is 8.5 in x 5.5 in. I just measured the thickness too... 1/2 inch. But then who says something important has to be big, right? :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birbari > > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Teena Paradise wrote: > > > I have been trying to get my hands on Birbari and Herald for some time > > now. This book is tiny!! It is about the size of a piece of paper > > folded in half and an inch (or less) thick! > > This is "Dress in Italian Painting"? I just checked a couple of library > catalogs that both say it's "114 p., [18] leaves of plates : ill. ; 23 > cm." That's nine inches tall... > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 12:24:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIHOlA2001476 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:24:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIHNW4S024342; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:23:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIHNdMc082423; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:23:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9401.mail.yahoo.com (web9401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBIHNcMc082405 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:23:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031218172329.97101.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:23:29 PST Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:23:29 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birbari To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Yes, Teena it IS a tiny book---( I already got my copy when I was at the Museum of Costumning at Bath back in '83) but definitely worth having! Congrats! Albra Robin Netherton wrote: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Teena Paradise wrote: > I have been trying to get my hands on Birbari and Herald for some time > now. This book is tiny!! It is about the size of a piece of paper > folded in half and an inch (or less) thick! This is "Dress in Italian Painting"? I just checked a couple of library catalogs that both say it's "114 p., [18] leaves of plates : ill. ; 23 cm." That's nine inches tall... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 13:30:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIIUAA2001651 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:30:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIISm4S001485; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:28:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIISsMc032716; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:28:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com (outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBIISpMc032612 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:28:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail19.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.161]) by smtpout01.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AAA98D6P7AVJ553A for (sender ); Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:28:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VClutDLU29efZKFP56JFJRqJoaq0xW5kh4A==">; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:28:12 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail19.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JHPYKW7T; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:28:12 PST Received: from [67.73.169.21] by webmail19.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:27:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.73.169.21] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Original-From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:27:30 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] hem guards X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: seamstrix@juno.com Message-Id: <20031218.102812.23607.1289091@webmail19.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 10:5:3486323728 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Actually, the farthingale should be several inches off the ground as having it too low increases the chances of walking up the front of your dress. I generally make mine about 4-5 inches above average ground level (which at the RenFaire varies!). The hem of the dress should be full and stiff enough to keep the line even without the direct support. I have been making mine that way for years and have never had a problem with appearance. Karen -- "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: I have been asked to do the same on a commission for a farthingale. I was going to put a tuck near the bottom and thin band of ultra suede on the bottom itself. But the whole thing has made me wonder about how often they did this. I remember seeing somewhere, but who knows where, about them in documentation. But with a Tudor gown it would seem that you want it to just skim the floor and not touch it. If you have a train on the back then it is sort of a moot point right? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of me Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 8:05 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] hem guards After reading the post yesterday (interlining) I was intrigued with hem guards. What a great way to save the bottom of my waaaaay out of budget fabric. How do I attatch one? Is it like Bias tape for the bottom of my dress? I thought about a wide hem guard (4-6 inches) and possibly heavily embroider it? This would be for my tudor era court gown. Any help much appreciated- Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 14:40:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIJeEA2001828 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:40:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIJcY4S008524; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:38:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIJcYMc085006; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:38:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIJcXMc084962 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:38:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.57]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIJcJnR015363 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:38:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031218111257.057f1180@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:20:54 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever use whalebone and in BONE? In-Reply-To: <002d01c3c57e$d510b920$c22ea5d1@pavilion> References: <121820031420.21642.4965@att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >Although realistically I doubt I >could actually work with baleen as I've been a vegetarian for 27 years A friend of mine let me look at a baleen bone she had, an antique, and it looked and felt like black fingernail. It was about 1/32 of an inch thick and curved across its width like fingernails are. It was smooth on one side, kind of rough on the other but with longitudinal striations, and flexible as a long fingernail (well, my thick fingernails anyway). Aparently baleen and fingernails (and rhinoceros horn) are made of the same stuff. If baleen is made of the same stuff as fingernails, soaking it should make it a little softer, and it should have a longitudinal grain. I'd cut it with an Xacto knife and metal ruler, and trim the ends with one of those big toenail cutters. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 14:40:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIJeFA2001829 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:40:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIJd34S008580; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIJdCMc085497; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:39:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIJcXMc084984 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:38:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.57]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIJcJnT015363 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:38:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031218112200.057f1720@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:25:42 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] hem guards In-Reply-To: <20031218161020.19170.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031218150435.10901.qmail@web40111.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com That Victorian sewing book of Dover's that somebody mentioned; that has instructions for making velveteen hem guards. (Victorian = 1906 for that book.) Surviving Victorian and Edwardian examples often have hem guards you can look at. >When I do mine--I do them on the inside of the dress, from the edge of >the hem up about 3 to 6 inches, just to protect the edges of the skirt >that brushes/hangs down on the floor. I usually use a sturdy bias cut >fabric. So, my version, is perhaps, more properly called a 'facing'.I even >sew it on like one.Measure where my hemline will be all the way around >--and then sew the bias cut strip all the way around the hem, 'right' >sides to 'right' sides, then press and flip to inside of dress. Then I >slip stitch the upper edge to the lining of skirt. >(Have I thoroughly confused you , yet?) >I have seen fabric guards attached on the outside of the skirt in >contrasting colors. I did one a long time ago--when I attached a band of >black velveteen about 6" deep all the way around a deep burgundy skirt, >that flipped/folded it around the edge of the hem to the inside of the >dress skirt--about 3 inches up--so I'd say I started with a band of fabric >totalling 9 " wide.I had cut the skirt in straight panels all the way >around, so the black velveteen guards did not need to be bias cut. Made >things easier. Apparently it wore fairly well, since the lady friend I >made it for is only now thinking of replacing the guard--10 years later:) >Hope this helps. >Albra > >me wrote: >After reading the post yesterday (interlining) I was intrigued with hem >guards. What a great way to save the bottom of my waaaaay out of budget >fabric. How do I attatch one? Is it like Bias tape for the bottom of my >dress? I thought about a wide hem guard (4-6 inches) and possibly heavily >embroider it? This would be for my tudor era court gown. Any help much >appreciated- Angelique > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 15:29:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIKTjA2002024 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:29:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIKSJ4S014310; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:28:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIKS8Mc025233; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:28:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIKS5Mc025127 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:28:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] hem guards Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:27:49 -0800 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90CB2EC@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 858 Thread-Index: AcPFi2SwWPyHEDaXRgmZL9WfYGy33AAGYFMw From: "Sunny Buchler" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hBIKS5Mc025127 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I don't have my _Patterns of Fashion_ to hand at the moment, but I thought there was at least one skirt that had both inside hem "facing" as well as outside decorative guarding at the hem... (Granted, that's later then Tudor, but I don't know of any existent Tudor skirts to compare it too.) -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 16:02:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBIL2RA2002161 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:02:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIL194S017587; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIL1GMc050133; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:01:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBIL1EMd050110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:01:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-109.sonic.net [209.148.112.109]) (authenticated bits=0) by eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBIL12Mn013611 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:01:03 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE21650.7050707@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:04:16 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tacky but fun X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Not for the historical purist, but--I got a very amusing catalog today for the "Sovietski Collection: Historically Inspired Products with a Sense of Adventure." Get a KGB badge/ID booklet, Czechoslovakian Spy Gear, Authentic Soviet Paratrooper Helmet, Fallout Shelter Sign, Swiss Army Gas Mask, WWII Bomber Jacket, and more! It's kind of like Past Times crossed with Soldier of Fortune magazine. Their website is www.sovietski.com and no, I am not affiliated with this company. Fran ---------------------------------- Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 16:39:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBILdkA2002259 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:39:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBILcQ4S021619; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:38:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBILcZMc079084; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:38:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBILcWMc079053 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:38:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBILcLN2007658 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:38:21 -0500 Message-ID: <035301c3c5af$420701d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FE21650.7050707@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tacky but fun Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:38:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I've been getting this catalog for a while now (No idea why!). It has some very cool stuff in it. I saw one where you could get a bicycle from WWII. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:04 PM Subject: [h-cost] Tacky but fun > Not for the historical purist, but--I got a very amusing catalog today > for the "Sovietski Collection: Historically Inspired Products with a > Sense of Adventure." Get a KGB badge/ID booklet, Czechoslovakian Spy > Gear, Authentic Soviet Paratrooper Helmet, Fallout Shelter Sign, Swiss > Army Gas Mask, WWII Bomber Jacket, and more! It's kind of like Past > Times crossed with Soldier of Fortune magazine. Their website is > www.sovietski.com and no, I am not affiliated with this company. > > Fran > > ---------------------------------- > Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 18 21:05:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJ25AA2004128 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 21:05:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJ24U4S014197; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:04:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJ24cxn055689; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:04:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBJ24Zxn055661 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:04:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nanaseven72003@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031219020422.49708.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.3.157.157] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:04:22 PST Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:04:22 -0800 (PST) From: Kathy Hensley To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] picture X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com This is a picture of me at Winter Range. Cowboy Single Action Shooting held each winter in Phoenix Az. My husband and granddaughter are shooters. I just dress up. This costume was one I purchased and then took home and remade. I've also gone on weight watchers and have lost 25lbs and still going. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 00:27:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJ5RsA2004745 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:27:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJ5QP4S026054; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:26:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJ5QUxn046207; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:26:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJ5QSxn046160 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:26:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9BC2C60007E; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 23:16:44 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9B81DD01A8; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 23:16:40 -0600 Message-ID: <02a801c3c5f0$a3446fa0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <02ec01c3c3a4$867e8fc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <001e01c3c4af$0ea633c0$442da5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:26:21 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Oh Lisa........ never seen anyone show their driver's license photo without having to write a check!!! Wow, your son and you really do look alike. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 00:31:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJ5ViA2004751 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:31:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJ5VB4S026356; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:31:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJ5VQxn048465; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:31:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJ5VOxn048421 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:31:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAE52C81007E; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 23:21:41 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAE131B0234; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 23:21:37 -0600 Message-ID: <02dc01c3c5f1$53c1b5e0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031216161026.2366.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Tradition Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:31:17 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Albra, Thank you!!! I hope to see your family photo soon! Have a wonderful holiday! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 04:15:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJ9FvA2004050 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 04:15:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJ9FI4S006635; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 02:15:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJ9FTxn044773; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 02:15:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJ9FRxn044716 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 02:15:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hBJ9HAA02294.; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:17:10 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:15:10 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:14:06 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: O.T. Paper sizes, was Re: [h-cost] Birbari Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Yet another thing that must be different in different countries. When I read Teena's comment I thought "How long is a piece of string? How big is a piece of paper?" The standard UK size is now A4; half that (A5) would be 8.25 x 5.75. When I lived for a few months in Switzerland in the 1970s, their paper sizes were quite different; don't know if they have changed since. >>> bkessinger@ureach.com 12/18/03 5:20:59 PM >>> Yes, its 8.75 in x 5.75 in. A piece of standard notebook paper folded in half is 8.5 in x 5.5 in. I just measured the thickness too... 1/2 inch. But then who says something important has to be big, right? :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birbari > > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Teena Paradise wrote: > > > I have been trying to get my hands on Birbari and Herald for some time > > now. This book is tiny!! It is about the size of a piece of paper > > folded in half and an inch (or less) thick! > > This is "Dress in Italian Painting"? I just checked a couple of library > catalogs that both say it's "114 p., [18] leaves of plates : ill. ; 23 > cm." That's nine inches tall... > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 06:09:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJB9kA2005707 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 06:09:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJB974S011871; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 04:09:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJB9Mxn088957; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 04:09:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJB9Lxn088889 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 04:09:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB9A8BEB29 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:08:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FE2DDA9.7010502@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:14:49 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1845-60 Bonnet question help!! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi, I've made a bonnet but now I have a question. If I ty the straps under my chin the bonnet tends to slide backwards. I tried to place the straps that it wouldn't do that and it is much better now but still not perfect. Did they use hatpins or something to keep the bonnet on even with wind?? I've heard that there wil be a stong wind this weekend :-( Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 06:56:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJBuvA2006625 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 06:56:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJBuO4S015336; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 04:56:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJBufxn011145; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 04:56:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJBudxn011130 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 04:56:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.57]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJBtecN015291 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 03:55:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031219035447.0579dba0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 03:56:17 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845-60 Bonnet question help!! In-Reply-To: <3FE2DDA9.7010502@kabelfoon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >I've made a bonnet but now I have a question. >If I ty the straps under my chin the bonnet tends to slide backwards. >I tried to place the straps that it wouldn't do that and it is much better >now but still not perfect. >Did they use hatpins or something to keep the bonnet on even with wind?? >I've heard that there wil be a stong wind this weekend :-( Make a bun of your periodly hip-length hair, and seat the bonnet on that. Failing which, use a hat pin across the back (my hair is about shoulder-length). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 09:44:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJEiIA2008764 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:44:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJEhF4S025431; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 07:43:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJEhSxn088340; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 07:43:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJEhOxn088205 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 07:43:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68826BE67E for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:42:59 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FE30FD6.6090400@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:48:54 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pictures of my bonnet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi, Here are some pictures of my bonnet :-) http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 10:00:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJF0tA2009992 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:00:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJF0I4S026713; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:00:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJF0bxn097957; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:00:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJF0Zxn097948 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:00:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AXM6x-0001gy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 07:00:15 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] picture Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:00:19 -0700 Message-ID: <005f01c3c640$d2379350$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20031219020422.49708.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hBJF0Zxn097948 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hey! Where's the picture? :) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Hensley Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 7:04 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] picture This is a picture of me at Winter Range. Cowboy Single Action Shooting held each winter in Phoenix Az. My husband and granddaughter are shooters. I just dress up. This costume was one I purchased and then took home and remade. I've also gone on weight watchers and have lost 25lbs and still going. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 10:01:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJF1dA2010007 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:01:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJF104S026796; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJF1Jxn098357; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:01:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJF1Ixn098345 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:01:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AXM7e-0001tz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 07:00:58 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pictures of my bonnet Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:01:01 -0700 Message-ID: <006001c3c640$eb74c1d0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FE30FD6.6090400@kabelfoon.nl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Nice dress! Nice Bonnet! What is that you and your friend are sitting on? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 10:14:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJFE0A2010246 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:14:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJFDP4S027886; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJFDixn006295; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:13:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBJFDgxn006264 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:13:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031219151321.37333.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 07:13:21 PST Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 07:13:21 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures of my bonnet To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FE30FD6.6090400@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com It's lovely Deredere! What a pretty color for you, too. Albra Deredere Galbraith wrote: Hi, Here are some pictures of my bonnet :-) http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 10:14:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJFEuA2010267 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:14:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJFE34S027932; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:14:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJFENxn006668; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:14:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9401.mail.yahoo.com (web9401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBJFELxn006647 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:14:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031219151401.55480.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 07:14:01 PST Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 07:14:01 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: RE: [h-cost] picture To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <005f01c3c640$d2379350$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I wondered that too:( Albra "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: Hey! Where's the picture? :) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Hensley Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 7:04 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] picture This is a picture of me at Winter Range. Cowboy Single Action Shooting held each winter in Phoenix Az. My husband and granddaughter are shooters. I just dress up. This costume was one I purchased and then took home and remade. I've also gone on weight watchers and have lost 25lbs and still going. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 13:42:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJIgxA2021207 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:42:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJIet4S018817; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:40:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJIfA76053339; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:41:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJIf876053261 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:41:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 478647 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:40:41 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:40:41 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] hem guards From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20031218161020.19170.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi, I haven't seen anyone mention what I use on all my long skirts (copying someone else in my Elizabethan group). I get some piping from the upholstery department (1/2'? 1"? wide) of a heavy black cotton and sew it inside at the hem so it hangs down below the actual hem. Because it's black it blends into skirts made from blue to burgundy to forest green; it looks like shadow. I haven't had to rehem or add a guard to any skirt since I found this solution. It even protects those changeable taffeta skirts that are so fragile. Works whether you're playing on concrete or a rocky surface. You can always use contrasting guards for design elements; this protects your skirt from the floor. LynnD On 12/18/03 8:10 AM, "KATHRYN WOLTERS" wrote: > When I do mine--I do them on the inside of the dress, from the edge of the > hem up about 3 to 6 inches, just to protect the edges of the skirt that > brushes/hangs down on the floor. I usually use a sturdy bias cut fabric. So, > my version, is perhaps, more properly called a 'facing'.I even sew it on like > one.Measure where my hemline will be all the way around --and then sew the > bias cut strip all the way around the hem, 'right' sides to 'right' sides, > then press and flip to inside of dress. Then I slip stitch the upper edge to > the lining of skirt. > (Have I thoroughly confused you , yet?) > I have seen fabric guards attached on the outside of the skirt in contrasting > colors. I did one a long time ago--when I attached a band of black velveteen > about 6" deep all the way around a deep burgundy skirt, that flipped/folded it > around the edge of the hem to the inside of the dress skirt--about 3 inches > up--so I'd say I started with a band of fabric totalling 9 " wide.I had cut > the skirt in straight panels all the way around, so the black velveteen guards > did not need to be bias cut. Made things easier. Apparently it wore fairly > well, since the lady friend I made it for is only now thinking of replacing > the guard--10 years later:) > Hope this helps. > Albra > > me wrote: > After reading the post yesterday (interlining) I was intrigued with hem > guards. What a great way to save the bottom of my waaaaay out of budget > fabric. How do I attatch one? Is it like Bias tape for the bottom of my dress? > I thought about a wide hem guard (4-6 inches) and possibly heavily embroider > it? This would be for my tudor era court gown. Any help much appreciated- > Angelique > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 13:54:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJIs6A2021261 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:54:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJIrE4S020061; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:53:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJIrZ76062158; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:53:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJIrY76062140 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:53:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-63-202-186-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.99]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E13732F89F for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:56:39 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031219035447.0579dba0@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20031219035447.0579dba0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <979B75F8-3254-11D8-9441-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845-60 Bonnet question help!! Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:53:10 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Putting a hair comb in can help, too. On Dec 19, 2003, at 3:56 AM, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> I've made a bonnet but now I have a question. >> If I ty the straps under my chin the bonnet tends to slide backwards. >> I tried to place the straps that it wouldn't do that and it is much >> better now but still not perfect. >> Did they use hatpins or something to keep the bonnet on even with >> wind?? >> I've heard that there wil be a stong wind this weekend :-( > > Make a bun of your periodly hip-length hair, and seat the bonnet on > that. Failing which, use a hat pin across the back (my hair is about > shoulder-length). > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 13:55:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJItiA2021265 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:55:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJIt34S020260; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJItO76063387; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:55:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav48.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJItL76063298 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:55:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:54:54 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav48.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:54:54 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] hem guards Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:54:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Dec 2003 18:54:54.0670 (UTC) FILETIME=[97294EE0:01C3C661] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com A nice victorian habit (and it may have also been used earlier) is a trick I've used, upholstrery trim the type called bullion fringe also works well at sweeping dust and not getting it in the hem. Bice Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "h costume" Sent: Friday, 19 December, 2003 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] hem guards > Hi, I haven't seen anyone mention what I use on all my long skirts (copying > someone else in my Elizabethan group). I get some piping from the upholstery > department (1/2'? 1"? wide) of a heavy black cotton and sew it inside at the > hem so it hangs down below the actual hem. Because it's black it blends into > skirts made from blue to burgundy to forest green; it looks like shadow. I > haven't had to rehem or add a guard to any skirt since I found this > solution. It even protects those changeable taffeta skirts that are so > fragile. Works whether you're playing on concrete or a rocky surface. You > can always use contrasting guards for design elements; this protects your > skirt from the floor. > > LynnD > > > On 12/18/03 8:10 AM, "KATHRYN WOLTERS" wrote: > > > When I do mine--I do them on the inside of the dress, from the edge of the > > hem up about 3 to 6 inches, just to protect the edges of the skirt that > > brushes/hangs down on the floor. I usually use a sturdy bias cut fabric. So, > > my version, is perhaps, more properly called a 'facing'.I even sew it on like > > one.Measure where my hemline will be all the way around --and then sew the > > bias cut strip all the way around the hem, 'right' sides to 'right' sides, > > then press and flip to inside of dress. Then I slip stitch the upper edge to > > the lining of skirt. > > (Have I thoroughly confused you , yet?) > > I have seen fabric guards attached on the outside of the skirt in contrasting > > colors. I did one a long time ago--when I attached a band of black velveteen > > about 6" deep all the way around a deep burgundy skirt, that flipped/folded it > > around the edge of the hem to the inside of the dress skirt--about 3 inches > > up--so I'd say I started with a band of fabric totalling 9 " wide.I had cut > > the skirt in straight panels all the way around, so the black velveteen guards > > did not need to be bias cut. Made things easier. Apparently it wore fairly > > well, since the lady friend I made it for is only now thinking of replacing > > the guard--10 years later:) > > Hope this helps. > > Albra > > > > me wrote: > > After reading the post yesterday (interlining) I was intrigued with hem > > guards. What a great way to save the bottom of my waaaaay out of budget > > fabric. How do I attatch one? Is it like Bias tape for the bottom of my dress? > > I thought about a wide hem guard (4-6 inches) and possibly heavily embroider > > it? This would be for my tudor era court gown. Any help much appreciated- > > Angelique > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 14:03:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJJ31A2021286 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:03:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJJ2N4S021095; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:02:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJJ2h76068389; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:02:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJJ0X76066893 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:00:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 478740 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:00:06 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:00:06 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845-60 Bonnet question help!! From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031219035447.0579dba0@mail.frys.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Yes, a hat pin will work - unless you've used three layers of buckram and can't get the hat pin through the da*% buckram. Another solution is to sew two sets of ribbons under your chin. One is smaller and attaches close to the front of your bonnet; it keeps the bonnet forward where it needs to be. The other ribbon is large and covers the smaller ribbon; it is set farther back from the front and is more theatrical. Many of the original Victorian bonnets have the two sets of ribbons. LynnD On 12/19/03 3:56 AM, "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" wrote: > >> I've made a bonnet but now I have a question. >> If I ty the straps under my chin the bonnet tends to slide backwards. >> I tried to place the straps that it wouldn't do that and it is much better >> now but still not perfect. >> Did they use hatpins or something to keep the bonnet on even with wind?? >> I've heard that there wil be a stong wind this weekend :-( > > Make a bun of your periodly hip-length hair, and seat the bonnet on > that. Failing which, use a hat pin across the back (my hair is about > shoulder-length). > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 15:03:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJK3eA2022040 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:03:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJK304S027160; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJK3K76010826; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:03:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBJK3I76010804 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:03:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from theresa@misc.com) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBJKgAgI001529 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:42:11 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE350FF.4030806@misc.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:26:55 -0800 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures of my bonnet References: <3FE30FD6.6090400@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Also, women of that era frequently wore white caps (before putting on the bonnet) to protect the inside of the bonnet from oily hair - with the cap pinned to enough pincurls of one's own hair, it seems to me you'd be able to use straight pins through the cap and the lining of the bonnet in enough strategic places to give a secure seating. Takes some time and fiddling though...no popping on the bonnet and rushing out the door!!! Theresa Eacker Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > Here are some pictures of my bonnet :-) > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 19 19:37:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBK0b2A2022781 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:37:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBK0aK4S001395; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:36:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBK0adHG006291; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:36:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.fidnet.com (four.fidnet.com [216.229.64.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBK0abHG006206 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:36:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lsharp@fidnet.com) Received: (qmail 2033 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2003 00:36:06 -0000 Received: from four.fidnet.com (HELO webmail.fidnet.com) (216.229.64.74) by mail.fidnet.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2003 00:36:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Fidelity Communications Webmail Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312191902.hBJJ2J78068056@net.indra.com> References: <200312191902.hBJJ2J78068056@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:36:06 -0600 From: To: h-costume@indra.com X-Webmail-Auth: lsharp@fidnet.com X-Originating-IP: [64.251.140.50] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 861 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com For those who might be interested I'm selling off part of my costuming library on Ebay starting with Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd. Here's a link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3574599513 Lori S ___________________________________________________________ Fidelity Communications Webmail - http://webmail.fidnet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 08:31:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKDVmA2018218 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:31:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKDVB4S016545; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 06:31:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKDVZHG061061; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 06:31:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKDVOHG060913 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 06:31:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f18.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.24]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7A1A4480076 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:30:49 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c3c6fd$7d129060$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:30:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ghost in period costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com This is a CNN story, so it must be the trouth. A ghost catched by camera at Hampton Court in period costume. Wich period is it? Go to: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/12/19/hampton.ghost.ap/index.html Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 08:55:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKDtBA2018262 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:55:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKDsb4S017671; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 06:54:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKDt7HG070822; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 06:55:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKDt6HG070810 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 06:55:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.188] (pm5-188.eos.net [205.133.149.188]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKDsRc2013543 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:54:28 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:55:29 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0A4FB1B3-32CC-11D8-BDE7-0003934D426C@verybigdesign.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FW: [Ermine] Palace 'ghost' caught on camera X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Considering out time-travel discussions a month or so back, I thought the list might be interested in this story I read on another list. The link is to CNN.com and it shoes a photograph that (to me) looks like a guy in a cheesy costume. But the story is kind of eerie. I like that this "ghost" keeps opening the fire door. If there's a fire at Hampton Court Palace, I will believe it! Gail Finke http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/12/19/hampton.ghost.ap/index.html (THE PICTURE IS AT SITE) Palace 'ghost' caught on camera Friday, December 19, 2003 Posted: 1:54 PM EST (1854 GMT) LONDON, England (AP) -- Are there ghostly goings-on at Henry VIII's palace, or is that hazy image of a fellow in fancy robes just a bit of Christmas cheer? Closed-circuit security cameras at Hampton Court Palace, the huge Tudor castle outside London, seem to have snagged an ethereal visitor. Could it be a ghost? "We're baffled too -- it's not a joke, we haven't manufactured it," said Vikki Wood, a Hampton Court spokeswoman, when asked if the photo the palace released was a Christmas hoax. "We genuinely don't know who it is or what it is." Wood said security guards had seen the figure in closed-circuit television footage after checking it to see who kept leaving open one of the palace's fire doors. In the still photograph, the figure of a man in a robe-like garment is shown stepping from the shadowy doorway, one arm reaching out for the door handle. The area around the man is somewhat blurred, and his face appears unnaturally white compared with his outstretched hand. "It was incredibly spooky because the face just didn't look human," said James Faukes, one of the palace security guards. "My first reaction was that someone was having a laugh, so I asked my colleagues to take a look. We spoke to our costumed guides, but they don't own a costume like that worn by the figure. It is actually quite unnerving," Faukes said. The palace, built in 1525 on the River Thames 10 miles west of central London, is a popular tourist attraction and some of the guides wear costumes of the Tudor period. Wood said she was hoping people would come forward with similar stories and try to explain the figure. The palace has been the scene of many dramatic royal events, and already is supposed to have a few ghosts. King Henry VIII's third wife, Jane Seymour, died there giving birth to a son, and her ghost is said to walk through one of the cobbled courtyards carrying a candle. Her son, Edward, had a nurse called Sibell Penn who was buried in the palace grounds in 1562. In 1829 her tomb was disturbed by building work, and around the same time an odd whirring noise began to be heard in the southwest wing of the palace. When workmen traced the strange sounds to a brick wall, they uncovered a small forgotten room containing an old spinning wheel, just like the one Penn used to use. Henry's fifth wife, Catherine Howard, condemned for adultery, was held at the palace under house arrest before her execution at the Tower of London. An 1897 book about the palace says she was reportedly seen, dressed in white and floating down one of the galleries uttering unearthly shrieks. The palace was once a prison for King Charles I, who later was beheaded, and then home to his nemesis Oliver Cromwell, who briefly ruled when Britain was for a short time a republic. --+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--- From: jen funk segrest --+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 10:46:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKFk1A2018705 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:46:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKFjJ4S023950; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:45:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKFjkHG019350; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:45:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKFjiHG019284 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:45:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Cheryldee@aol.com) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.14b.285f66af (4312) for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:45:00 -0500 (EST) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: <14b.285f66af.2d15c87c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:45:00 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6024 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/20/2003 6:33:12 AM Mountain Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > This is a CNN story, so it must be the trouth. > A ghost catched by camera at Hampton Court in period costume. > Wich period is it? > OK, Bjarne: Does Europe really think that if it's CNN, it must be true? <> And the picture is so blurry and in black and white, how can you tell if it is cheesy or not? Looks like he's in a long gowne to me. Like the one so popular throughout the 16th and into the early 17th century. The story made me want to revisit Hampton Court all the more. (Saving my pennies). P.S. I hope this becomes a thread. I will enjoy what the rest of you have to say. Cheryl _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 10:48:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKFmZA2018718 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:48:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKFlx4S024185; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:47:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKFmWHG020714; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:48:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKFmTHG020697 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:48:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from khanson@kc.rr.com) Received: from karen (CPE-24-31-232-172.kc.rr.com [24.31.232.172]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id hBKFlubQ005768 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:47:56 -0600 (CST) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ghost in period costume Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:47:20 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <14b.285f66af.2d15c87c@aol.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I thought it looked like the guy from the Scary Movies. T. > > P.S. I hope this becomes a thread. I will enjoy what the rest of > you have to > say. > > Cheryl _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 10:53:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKFrsA2018738 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:53:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKFr44S024506; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKFraHG022954; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:53:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKFrYHG022908 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:53:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Cheryldee@aol.com) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.78.4d0231a6 (4312) for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:52:54 -0500 (EST) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: <78.4d0231a6.2d15ca56@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:52:54 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6024 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/20/2003 8:48:17 AM Mountain Standard Time, khanson@kc.rr.com writes: > I thought it looked like the guy from the Scary Movies. > > And now that I have revisited it after a good night's sleep, it could just as easily be a guy in a bathrobe and a halloween mask. Cheryl _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 11:12:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKGCsA2018806 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:12:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKGCJ4S025680; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:12:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKGCpHG031256; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:12:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBKGCmHG031163 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:12:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCnx1oJi7JTAyNpBx1GVzH2KNtdeaJN0q5g==">; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:11:25 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JHUVJWDR; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:11:25 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:08:52 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume Message-ID: <20031220.100853.-441845.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9-10,12-37 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Unfortunately with security camera pics, they are generally of such poor quality, it's a wonder they are useful for anything at all. It is definitely a human figure, it looks like it has a robe on like they generally put the Ghost of Christmas Present in for 'A Christmas Carol', the face is very white, but with the level of grain in the image, you can't really see any detail to see if the features are distorted....or even there! I also wish the image wasn't sideways- it makes interpreting the information that much more difficult. There have already been several fires over the years at Hampton Court, so maybe the 'ghost' is just checking the exits! I'll be interested to see if any human involvement comes to light in the future! Karen who loves loves loves ghosts and hauntings! On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:52:54 EST Cheryldee@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 12/20/2003 8:48:17 AM Mountain Standard Time, > khanson@kc.rr.com writes: > > > I thought it looked like the guy from the Scary Movies. > > > > > > And now that I have revisited it after a good night's sleep, it > could just as > easily be a guy in a bathrobe and a halloween mask. > > Cheryl > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 11:32:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKGWSA2018932 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:32:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKGVn4S027163; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:31:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKGWJHG040188; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:32:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKGWGHG040140 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:32:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5057425CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:39:58 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FE47B33.8070607@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:39:15 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume References: <000701c3c6fd$7d129060$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000701c3c6fd$7d129060$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > This is a CNN story, so it must be the trouth. > A ghost catched by camera at Hampton Court in period costume. > Wich period is it? > Go to: > http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/12/19/hampton.ghost.ap/index.html > The picture is so bad it's a wonder they can make anything of it at all. I bet it was a staffer in his raincoat going for a cigarette break. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 11:48:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKGmkA2019047 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:48:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKGm24S028195; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKGmXHG047410; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:48:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKGmVHG047399 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-45-093.jps.net ([209.165.45.93] helo=pavilion) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AXkGn-0004vb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:48:01 -0800 Message-ID: <001801c3c71a$0d6c8a00$5d2da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <14b.285f66af.2d15c87c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:55:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Cheryl wrote: > In a message dated 12/20/2003 6:33:12 AM Mountain Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > > This is a CNN story, so it must be the trouth. > > A ghost catched by camera at Hampton Court in period costume. > > Wich period is it? > > > > OK, Bjarne: Does Europe really think that if it's CNN, it must be true? > I think Bjarne was kidding. Too bad the ghost wasn't wearing an exposed bum roll and the photography wasn't better or some new costuming knowledge would have been revealed! ;-) Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 12:00:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKH0gA2019097 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:00:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKH064S028969; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:00:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKH0dHG052737; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:00:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKH0cHG052697 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:00:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a223.in-tch.com [66.62.107.23]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBKGcMN25853 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:38:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FE480B8.8CF865DD@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:02:48 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume References: <14b.285f66af.2d15c87c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I can't see a thing. My computer crashes every time I try the link. <> I suppose this is the universe's way of telling me to get OFF the computer and back to work on holiday gifts.... --sue Cheryldee@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/20/2003 6:33:12 AM Mountain Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > > This is a CNN story, so it must be the trouth. > > A ghost catched by camera at Hampton Court in period costume. > > Wich period is it? > > > > OK, Bjarne: Does Europe really think that if it's CNN, it must be true? > > < cheesy costume.>> > > And the picture is so blurry and in black and white, how can you tell if it > is cheesy or not? Looks like he's in a long gowne to me. Like the one so > popular throughout the 16th and into the early 17th century. The story made me > want to revisit Hampton Court all the more. (Saving my pennies). > > P.S. I hope this becomes a thread. I will enjoy what the rest of you have to > say. > > Cheryl > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 12:11:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKHBAA2019136 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:11:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKHAX4S029814; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:10:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKHB4HG058241; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:11:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKHB2HG058220 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:11:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBKHAS0E009380 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:10:28 -0500 Message-ID: <003301c3c71c$2ae358a0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <14b.285f66af.2d15c87c@aol.com> <001801c3c71a$0d6c8a00$5d2da5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:10:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume > Cheryl wrote: > > > In a message dated 12/20/2003 6:33:12 AM Mountain Standard Time, > > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > > > > This is a CNN story, so it must be the trouth. > > > A ghost catched by camera at Hampton Court in period costume. > > > Wich period is it? > > > > > > > OK, Bjarne: Does Europe really think that if it's CNN, it must be true? > > > I think Bjarne was kidding. Too bad the ghost wasn't wearing an exposed bum > roll and the photography wasn't better or some new costuming knowledge would > have been revealed! ;-) > > Lisa > Yeah... I was going to blow up the picture so that I could check his seam construction! ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 12:13:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKHDYA2019143 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:13:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKHD04S000107; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKHDYHG059449; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:13:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9403.mail.yahoo.com (web9403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBKHDVHG059383 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:13:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031220171257.58896.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:12:57 PST Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:12:57 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <78.4d0231a6.2d15ca56@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I've actually experienced what I believe to be ghosts----but this cheesy looking picture is certainly NOT what I'd call convincing. Just my 5 cents worth---- Albra Cheryldee@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/20/2003 8:48:17 AM Mountain Standard Time, khanson@kc.rr.com writes: > I thought it looked like the guy from the Scary Movies. > > And now that I have revisited it after a good night's sleep, it could just as easily be a guy in a bathrobe and a halloween mask. Cheryl _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 12:16:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKHGrA2019156 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:16:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKHGI4S000376; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:16:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKHGpHG060982; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:16:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKHGoHG060972 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:16:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from naliedel@earthlink.net) Received: from user-2injk7u.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.208.254] helo=sacredhearth) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AXkiC-0001bM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:16:20 -0800 From: "Nancy Liedel" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ghost in period costume Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:16:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <003301c3c71c$2ae358a0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcPHHC6F+8snMxt/RJycqnQ7DCPOhAAAKfdQ Message-Id: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com This was on CNN when I was feeding the baby at 4am this morning. Apparently it was a robed figure and left a door open. It was caught on a surveillance tape. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 12:26:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKHQFA2019194 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:26:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKHPR4S000936; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:25:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKHQ0HG065120; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:26:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKHPvHG065060 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:25:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-46-34.client.comcast.net[24.1.46.34]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20031220172518013006sab5e>; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 17:25:18 +0000 Message-ID: <008101c3c71e$81afe340$222e0118@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031220171257.58896.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:27:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Well playing around with my art program doing several things to the image that is provided it sure produces some interesting textures and there are three very well defined lines running from top to bottom of that image. One is on either side of the image and one through the center right as you look at it. And there seems to be another profile of the face just to the left of the "white mask". I went back to the original image and sure enough, you can see these three lines without enhancing. Grant it this is most likely a second generation image that has been flattened and enhanced for the web and for print but these lines are most likely made by something eles. Like an glitch in the camera, or tampering of the image. But I gotta say, that robe looks like something Scrooge would wear. ;) Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume : I've actually experienced what I believe to be ghosts----but this cheesy looking picture is certainly NOT what I'd call convincing. : Just my 5 cents worth---- : Albra : : Cheryldee@aol.com wrote: : In a message dated 12/20/2003 8:48:17 AM Mountain Standard Time, : khanson@kc.rr.com writes: : : > I thought it looked like the guy from the Scary Movies. : > : > : : And now that I have revisited it after a good night's sleep, it could just as : easily be a guy in a bathrobe and a halloween mask. : : Cheryl : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume : : --------------------------------- : Do you Yahoo!? : New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 13:47:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKIlYA2019490 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:47:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKIiB4S005830; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:44:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKIihqq003508; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:44:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKIicqr003451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:44:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBKIg2PX016205 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:42:02 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:42:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FE498B9.2050007@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:45:13 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Nancy Liedel wrote: > It was caught on a surveillance tape. In that case, there should be many frames of it to analyize for 1: hoaxes or 2: seam placement! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent And so, faced with shocking lack of documentation, I am forced to invent some of my own. -- Cecil Adams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 20 17:57:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBKMv1A2021578 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 17:57:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKMuN4S022233; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:56:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKMuuqq025367; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:56:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBKMusqq025353 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:56:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-57-251.jps.net ([209.165.57.251] helo=pavilion) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AXq1A-0006SD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:56:16 -0800 Message-ID: <000801c3c74d$827f5ce0$fb39a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <121820031420.21642.4965@att.net> <4.3.1.2.20031218111257.057f1180@mail.frys.com> Subject: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever use whalebone and in BONE? Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:03:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Okay, this baleen frond isn't exactly as I imagined. It is about 1/32 of an inch thick naturally, I thought it would be thick as well as wide, which means all one would have to do is cut it into strips to use, easy! I doubt soaking would even be required, just an Xacto blade and metal ruler as Kayta suggested. Cable ties are not terribly distant in properties to it, although the ties are somewhat thicker and more flexible. I've not seen artificial whalebone so I cannot comment on the similarity. I'm not planning on making whalebone corsets as I don't want to hog the limited supply of baleen but eventually it will make an appearance at a California Renaissance faire so a few others can see first hand this. This is really exciting!!! Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com www.maninthemoone.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever use whalebone and in BONE? > > >Although realistically I doubt I > >could actually work with baleen as I've been a vegetarian for 27 years > > A friend of mine let me look at a baleen bone she had, an antique, and it > looked and felt like black fingernail. It was about 1/32 of an inch thick > and curved across its width like fingernails are. It was smooth on one > side, kind of rough on the other but with longitudinal striations, and > flexible as a long fingernail (well, my thick fingernails > anyway). Aparently baleen and fingernails (and rhinoceros horn) are made > of the same stuff. > > If baleen is made of the same stuff as fingernails, soaking it should make > it a little softer, and it should have a longitudinal grain. I'd cut it > with an Xacto knife and metal ruler, and trim the ends with one of those > big toenail cutters. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 02:27:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBL7RgA2024889 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 02:27:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBL7R14S020845; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBL7RXqq037511; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:27:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBL7RTqq037468 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:27:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQ800E56I0J64@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:26:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:24:43 -0800 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031220231718.00b0afc0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: Subject: [h-cost] lining a velveteen doublet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi all I am working on my husband's 1580's doublet, and I want to line it with linen. I have some light-midweight, but not the sheer kind of linen, that I am using for his shirt. It is white. Should I use this for lining the doublet, or should I get a heavier linen? Do I need to dye the lining or keep it white or natural color? I am concerned with sweat leaching dyes from the black velveteen onto the white linen shirt, or even the lining itself. Oh, the sleeves will be in a crimson silk shantung, also lined. Not sure what color for the sleeve linings either, because they will be split down the front in a shaped two-piece sleeve. Got to deal with very hot California summers (100+). I plan on interlining with horsehair canvas, like I have always done with doublets (great for keeping the shape of the body), but I previously used cotton broadcloth for linings, and am not sure how that translates to linen linings. Any other suggestions for the doublet that I may be overlooking? Thanks in advance, and Happy Holidays! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 15:50:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBLKoYA2007031 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:50:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBLKnj4S007756; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 13:49:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBLKoQqq070495; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 13:50:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBLKoPqq070489 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 13:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-50-053.jps.net ([209.165.50.53] helo=pavilion) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AYAW7-0007EN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 12:49:36 -0800 Message-ID: <000601c3c804$e1449b20$3532a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031220231718.00b0afc0@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] lining a velveteen doublet Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 12:56:16 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com "Kimiko Small wrote: > I have some light-midweight, but not the sheer kind of linen, that I am > using for his shirt. It is white. Should I use this for lining the doublet, > or should I get a heavier linen? Depends on how much body you want the linen to provide. Hard to answer this without handling both fabrics. >Do I need to dye the lining or keep it > white or natural color? I am concerned with sweat leaching dyes from the > black velveteen onto the white linen shirt, or even the lining itself. This might very well happen, but if you dye the lining that dye might leach onto your light shirt. I'd probably only dye the lining if I thought bits of it might show and be distracting to the outer fabric, but this also depends on how stable the dyeing process is for this particular fabric. If stable, then go for it if you'd prefer another colour. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 18:19:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBLNIxA2007564 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:19:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBLNGI4S020001; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:16:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBLNH3qq045928; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:17:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBLNH2qq045856 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:17:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCmCEJeHhsBLmQ4v2p9Ri8uo+6AHk+mkj6A==">; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:16:00 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JHX7833J; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:16:00 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:11:36 -0600 Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever use whalebone and in BONE? Message-ID: <20031221.171136.-519865.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 11-13 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but owning baleen may not be legal for you even if you got it from a perfectly legal source. It is legal for Native Americans to own any number of endangered animal parts where it is not legal for others to do so. A friend of mine was given a bald eagle feather by a Native American woman who had a perfect right to own it. Unfortunately my friend was not sufficiently Native American to be able to own one and he promptly had it confiscated by Fish and Game when he wore it to a Rendezvous. I believe that he was able to avoid any fines or legal problems as he had gotten it from a legal owner, but he was NOT allowed to keep the feather. I don't know how or if this applies to baleen, but you might want to check it out before you start using it as part of a public demonstration. Karen the Cautious ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 18:28:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBLNSNA2007595 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:28:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBLNRn4S021133; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:27:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBLNScqq052758; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:28:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.126]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBLNSaqq052725 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:28:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-45-147.jps.net ([209.165.45.147] helo=pavilion) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AYCzA-0004qS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:27:45 -0800 Message-ID: <000801c3c81b$13b977e0$932da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031221.171136.-519865.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever usewhalebone and in BONE? Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:35:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Good advice! I'll do some checking. You know, I'm just satisfied that I know what the properties of baleen are. It's very hard to find a substitute for something if you don't know what the original is like. Now I know and that's enough for me. Would be nice if others could experience this too, but I'm more than willing to play by the rules on this one! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 3:11 PM Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever usewhalebone and in BONE? > I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but owning baleen may not be > legal for you even if you got it from a perfectly legal source. It is > legal for Native Americans to own any number of endangered animal parts > where it is not legal for others to do so. A friend of mine was given a > bald eagle feather by a Native American woman who had a perfect right to > own it. Unfortunately my friend was not sufficiently Native American to > be able to own one and he promptly had it confiscated by Fish and Game > when he wore it to a Rendezvous. I believe that he was able to avoid any > fines or legal problems as he had gotten it from a legal owner, but he > was NOT allowed to keep the feather. I don't know how or if this applies > to baleen, but you might want to check it out before you start using it > as part of a public demonstration. > > > Karen the Cautious > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 19:08:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM081A2007719 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:08:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM07R4S024156; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:07:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM08Dqq072408; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:08:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBM08Aqq072312 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:08:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCmCEJeHhsBLmzIf5tbCQlCpNTQNZm7Zt1g==">; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:06:25 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JHYA5DDD; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:06:25 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:02:26 -0600 Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever usewhalebone and in BONE? Message-ID: <20031221.180226.-519865.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10-14,16-26 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I totally agree with you there. If you are able to use it as part of a demonstration, I would love to see it. I have been experimenting with the cable-tie thing with the idea that they more closely match period 'boning' materials, but it's really just a theory as you have pointed out. I was discussing this with a lady last year and she was agast that I would use such an un-authentic material as PLASTIC to make a period (Elizabethan) corset. I then pointed out that the Elizabethans didn't use metal bones, they used whalebone and/or reed which have very different properties from flat metal stays so the metal ones weren't really any more authentic. It would be great to have the definitive word on what the correct sort of stiffening should look and feel like. Karen On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:35:07 -0800 "Lisa Sinervo" writes: > Good advice! I'll do some checking. You know, I'm just satisfied > that I > know what the properties of baleen are. It's very hard to find a > substitute > for something if you don't know what the original is like. Now I > know and > that's enough for me. Would be nice if others could experience this > too, > but I'm more than willing to play by the rules on this one! > > Lisa ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 19:26:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM0QVA2007770 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:26:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM0OX4S025222; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:24:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM0PMqq079976; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:25:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM0PKqq079957 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:25:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-50-235.jps.net ([209.165.50.235] helo=pavilion) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AYDsB-0001zy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:24:36 -0800 Message-ID: <000801c3c822$fe484be0$eb32a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031221.171136.-519865.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever usewhalebone and in BONE? Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:31:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >From a brief look at some government sites, it looks okay to have this piece for educational purposes, which is my intent. But I think something in writing from the Fish and Game department would be best to have on hand. Thanks for the heads up though. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 3:11 PM Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever usewhalebone and in BONE? > I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but owning baleen may not be > legal for you even if you got it from a perfectly legal source. It is > legal for Native Americans to own any number of endangered animal parts > where it is not legal for others to do so. A friend of mine was given a > bald eagle feather by a Native American woman who had a perfect right to > own it. Unfortunately my friend was not sufficiently Native American to > be able to own one and he promptly had it confiscated by Fish and Game > when he wore it to a Rendezvous. I believe that he was able to avoid any > fines or legal problems as he had gotten it from a legal owner, but he > was NOT allowed to keep the feather. I don't know how or if this applies > to baleen, but you might want to check it out before you start using it > as part of a public demonstration. > > > Karen the Cautious > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 19:46:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM0kPA2007830 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:46:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM0jo4S026758; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:45:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM0keqq089841; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:46:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM0kbqq089828 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:46:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-44-153.jps.net ([209.165.44.153] helo=pavilion) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AYECk-0006AB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:45:51 -0800 Message-ID: <001701c3c825$fa0ff200$eb32a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031221.180226.-519865.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhalebone and in BONE? Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:53:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Karen wrote: >. I was discussing this with a lady last year and she was agast that I > would use such an un-authentic material as PLASTIC to make a period > (Elizabethan) corset. ummm, are you five foot four, medium brown hair with green eyes? If so, I was NOT the one pulling faces and making snotty comments under my breath!!!!!! Oh, maybe it was some other poor sod I insulted, actually it was Liz, Damn!!!. No, I was much more outwardly gracious, but I was aghast at such a suggestion myself. And now, well, I think cable ties are a pretty good substitute given the whale/extinction situation. The ties are not quite as stiff as the real thing and the striations run the opposite direction and I suspect the baleen would absorb a bit of moisture but I'd support cable ties as a respectable substitute now that I've seen the real thing. That's all for now! Will work on getting some permission in writing now. bye bye.... Lisa - feeling somewhat sheepish! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 19:54:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM0sUA2007858 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:54:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM0ru4S027307; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:53:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM0skqq093271; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:54:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBM0siqq093232 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:54:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCmCEJeHhsBLmUMv4iffiCAAi0JeygcMgLA==">; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:53:34 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JHYDTP7F; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:53:34 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:49:17 -0600 Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever usewhalebone and in BONE? Message-ID: <20031221.184918.-519865.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-10,12-19 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com No problem, I was thinking about speaking up but was afraid I was just being a worry-wart. But then I thought, well what if something bad happens and I could have helped out and then I felt all obligated and stuff. Hopefully, there's no cause for worry and your educational efforts will be rewarded. Karen On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:31:49 -0800 "Lisa Sinervo" writes: > >From a brief look at some government sites, it looks okay to have > this piece > for educational purposes, which is my intent. But I think something > in writing from the Fish and Game department would be best to have on > hand. Thanks for the heads up though. > > Lisa Sinervo > www.thrednedlestrete.com ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 20:00:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM10vA2007879 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:00:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM10N4S027930; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:00:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM11Dqq096086; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:01:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBM11Aqq096043 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:01:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCmCEJeHhsBLmOfoGcNZvD7OOK4rRW2wEtw==">; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:59:53 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JHYD7AA5; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:59:53 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:56:15 -0600 Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhalebone and in BONE? Message-ID: <20031221.185615.-519865.3.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-11,13-16,19-21,25-29,31-34 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:53:11 -0800 "Lisa Sinervo" writes: > > ummm, are you five foot four, medium brown hair with green eyes? If > so, I was NOT the one pulling faces and making snotty comments under my > breath!!!!!! Hehehehe- no I am 5'7" with long blonde hair and grey-blue eyes > No, I was much more outwardly gracious, but I was > aghast at such a suggestion myself. And now, well, I think cable ties are > a pretty > good substitute given the whale/extinction situation. The ties are > not quite as stiff as the real thing and the striations run the > opposite direction and I suspect the baleen would absorb a bit of moisture > but I'd support cable ties as a respectable substitute now that I've seen > the real thing. That's my feel. It's not perfect, but it's much closer to the period effect we are trying to mimic and it's not made from an endangered species. Plus if you re-use cable ties, you are being ecologically responsible and recycling. > Lisa - feeling somewhat sheepish! At least you are willing to admit being incorrect, learn, and develop your knowledge. Not everyone is. Take some credit for that. 8-) Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 20:14:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM1EpA2007912 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:14:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1EH4S028597; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:14:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1F7qq002106; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:15:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1F4qq002089 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:15:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip254.207-173-124.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.124.254]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF7A6AB47 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:14:07 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:14:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they ever usewhalebone and in BONE? Message-ID: <3FE5D4D9.27128.407C00D@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000801c3c81b$13b977e0$932da5d1@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > Good advice! I'll do some checking. You know, I'm just satisfied > that I know what the properties of baleen are. It's very hard to find > a substitute for something if you don't know what the original is > like. Now I know and that's enough for me. Would be nice if others > could experience this too, but I'm more than willing to play by the > rules on this one! It's very good advice. I looked into doing a whalebone corset for this purpose and they like you to have written permission to have the whalebone. (That was about 4 years ago and things may have changed, but probably not.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 20:36:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM1avA2008005 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:36:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1aL4S029891; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:36:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1bAqq012979; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:37:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1b6qq012948 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:37:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-45-157.jps.net ([209.165.45.157] helo=pavilion) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AYEzW-0005iX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:36:15 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01c3c82d$05accc80$9d2da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031221.184918.-519865.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhalebone and in BONE? Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:43:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com oh no, I very much appreciate your comments. Thanks again! Lisa SInervo ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 4:49 PM Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhalebone and in BONE? > No problem, I was thinking about speaking up but was afraid I was just > being a worry-wart. But then I thought, well what if something bad > happens and I could have helped out and then I felt all obligated and > stuff. Hopefully, there's no cause for worry and your educational efforts > will be rewarded. > > > Karen > > > > On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:31:49 -0800 "Lisa Sinervo" > writes: > > >From a brief look at some government sites, it looks okay to have > > this piece > > for educational purposes, which is my intent. But I think something > > in writing from the Fish and Game department would be best to have on > > hand. Thanks for the heads up though. > > > > Lisa Sinervo > > www.thrednedlestrete.com > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 20:49:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM1nmA2008171 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:49:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1n74S000776; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1nvqq018839; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:49:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1nuqq018829 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:49:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-45-157.jps.net ([209.165.45.157] helo=pavilion) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AYFBw-0001zL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:49:05 -0800 Message-ID: <001001c3c82e$d201f3e0$9d2da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FE5D4D9.27128.407C00D@localhost> Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did theyever usewhalebone and in BONE? Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:56:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Kat wrote: > > It's very good advice. I looked into doing a whalebone corset for > this purpose and they like you to have written permission to have the > whalebone. (That was about 4 years ago and things may have changed, > but probably not.) > Did you ever make the corset? I suspect baleen would be wonderful to work with.. Sounds quite reasonable to me for the Fish and Game department to want permission to be in writing. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 20:55:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM1t2A2008275 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:55:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1sM4S001108; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:54:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1tCqq021399; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:55:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav66.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1sPqq020846 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:54:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:53:28 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav66.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:53:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FE5D4D9.27128.407C00D@localhost> <001001c3c82e$d201f3e0$9d2da5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Didtheyever usewhalebone and in BONE? Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:53:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Dec 2003 01:53:28.0718 (UTC) FILETIME=[65206AE0:01C3C82E] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I found this on owning baleen it has to do with taxidermy but it addresses owning baleen http://snipurl.com/3ied Bice Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, 21 December, 2003 8:56 PM Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Didtheyever usewhalebone and in BONE? > Kat wrote: > > > > It's very good advice. I looked into doing a whalebone corset for > > this purpose and they like you to have written permission to have the > > whalebone. (That was about 4 years ago and things may have changed, > > but probably not.) > > > Did you ever make the corset? I suspect baleen would be wonderful to work > with.. Sounds quite reasonable to me for the Fish and Game department to > want permission to be in writing. > > Lisa Sinervo > www.thrednedlestrete.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 20:55:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM1tVA2008292 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:55:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1sq4S001162; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:54:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1thqq021789; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:55:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav15.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM1tfqq021683 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:55:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:54:44 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav15.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:54:44 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FE5D4D9.27128.407C00D@localhost> <001001c3c82e$d201f3e0$9d2da5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Didtheyever usewhalebone and in BONE? Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:54:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Dec 2003 01:54:44.0717 (UTC) FILETIME=[926CF1D0:01C3C82E] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com And also this http://www.boonetrading.com/Pg18.html Bice Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, 21 December, 2003 8:56 PM Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Didtheyever usewhalebone and in BONE? > Kat wrote: > > > > It's very good advice. I looked into doing a whalebone corset for > > this purpose and they like you to have written permission to have the > > whalebone. (That was about 4 years ago and things may have changed, > > but probably not.) > > > Did you ever make the corset? I suspect baleen would be wonderful to work > with.. Sounds quite reasonable to me for the Fish and Game department to > want permission to be in writing. > > Lisa Sinervo > www.thrednedlestrete.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 21:51:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM2pFA2008688 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:51:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM2nU4S005164; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:49:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM2oJqq047542; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:50:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM2oHqq047530 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:50:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip254.207-173-124.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.124.254]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 697CC6D69E for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:49:01 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:49:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did theyever usewhalebone and in BONE? Message-ID: <3FE5EB20.25156.45EC749@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001001c3c82e$d201f3e0$9d2da5d1@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > Did you ever make the corset? I suspect baleen would be wonderful to > work with.. Sounds quite reasonable to me for the Fish and Game > department to want permission to be in writing. No, I never made it because I never got enough baleen to do so. I have one small piece which was given to me by one of the ladies in the Millinery shop in Williamsburg which I use for teaching (for my corset classes and Renaissance Women's Underwear class). But I'm very careful not to take it across any borders (especially not to Canada, for instance) just in case. It was the lady who gave it to me who warned me that the permission was needed. As I recall, it is exempt if it came from a source such as a Victorian corset (which of course, I never found. Just ones with steel stays.) But newer than the antique stuff needed the permission letter. Of course, thanks to this list I realize that using bones from an old corset would probably be a bad idea because they would be more brittle now and more likely to shatter (and possibly pierce soft body parts). Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 22:11:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM3BOA2008759 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:11:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM3Af4S006257; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:10:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM3BPqq055983; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:11:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lycos.com (www3.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBM3BNqq055939 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:11:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katie_lewis@mailcity.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 03:10:17 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:10:17 -0500 From: "Katie Lewis" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: on X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: viking costume X-Sender-Ip: 149.169.150.155 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thanks for posting the website! It is a real treasure, especially since I'm making a caftan for my mom as a Christmas present. Ingrid-Thanks for the translation! I wonder if you could do me a massive favor and translate the section titled "Vad har horn over?" The url is -http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/eng/drakter/vkvinna/vkvinfr.htm Thanks! Katie --- Willow: No, Ma, hear this! I'm a rebel! I'm having a rebellion! Sheila: Willow, honey, you don't need to act out like this to prove your specialness. Willow: Mom, I'm not acting out. I'm a witch! I-I can make pencils float. And I can summon the four elements. Okay, two, but four soon. A-and I'm dating a musician.I worship Beelzebub. I do his biddings. Do you see any goats around? No, because I sacrificed them. Sheila:I'm not listening to this. Willow:Prince of Night, I summon you. Come fill me with your black, naughty evil. --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:10:22 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Cc: >On Monday 01 December 2003 11:30 am, Joanna Hobbins wrote: >> Some parts of the website have been officially translated into english. >> >> http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/eng/drakt.htm >> >> I have no idea how to get to the english page from the main site >> unfortunately, or even if other parts of the site are in english. > >Thanks for finding this! > >I went to the URL you found, and it showed the page with the links to pictures >of the costume reproductions in English. I went to the page for the "Viking >noble woman," and the introductory page was in English, but the pages for the >different items of her costume were not. Sigh. > >-- >Cathy Raymond > >"Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ____________________________________________________________ Free Poetry Contest. Win $10,000. Submit your poem @ Poetry.com! http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;6750922;3807821;l?http://www.poetry.com/contest/contest.asp?Suite=A59101 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 22:48:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM3m4A2008849 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:48:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM3lN4S008426; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:47:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM3mAqq072893; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:48:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lycos.com (www3.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBM3m9qq072837 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:48:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katie_lewis@mailcity.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 03:47:03 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:47:03 -0500 From: "Katie Lewis" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths X-Sender-Ip: 149.169.150.155 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:44:30 From: Kimiko Small To: Historical Costume Cc: I have been wanting to try doll dresses, but don't want to shell >out for a new Barbie that will just end up being >modified in major ways. Are there any Big Lots stores in your area? Around here ("here" being the metro-Phoenix AZ area) all of the Big Lots stores have *stacks* of Barbies (in blonde and brunette) for $4. -Katie --- Willow: No, Ma, hear this! I'm a rebel! I'm having a rebellion! Sheila: Willow, honey, you don't need to act out like this to prove your specialness. Willow: Mom, I'm not acting out. I'm a witch! I-I can make pencils float. And I can summon the four elements. Okay, two, but four soon. A-and I'm dating a musician.I worship Beelzebub. I do his biddings. Do you see any goats around? No, because I sacrificed them. Sheila:I'm not listening to this. Willow:Prince of Night, I summon you. Come fill me with your black, naughty evil. > > >Kimiko Small >Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother >kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com >"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > >Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery >http://www.costumegallery.com > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ____________________________________________________________ Free Poetry Contest. Win $10,000. Submit your poem @ Poetry.com! http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;6750922;3807821;l?http://www.poetry.com/contest/contest.asp?Suite=A59101 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 21 23:05:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM45jA2008890 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:05:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM45A4S009542; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:05:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM45xqq080896; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:05:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lycos.com (www3.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBM45uqq080840 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:05:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katie_lewis@mailcity.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 04:04:54 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:04:54 -0500 From: "Katie Lewis" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 X-Sender-Ip: 149.169.150.155 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ruffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I need a ruff to complete my Elizabethian outfit, and I'm not looking forward to making it since I hate pleating with a purple passion. *So* Does anyone know of anyone who will make a ruff for a reasonable price? -Katie ____________________________________________________________ Free Poetry Contest. Win $10,000. Submit your poem @ Poetry.com! http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;6750922;3807821;l?http://www.poetry.com/contest/contest.asp?Suite=A59101 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 00:27:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM5RdA2009064 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:27:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM5Pr4S014045; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:25:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM5Qgqq014187; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:26:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM5Qdqr014174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:26:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBM5QwUZ001419 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:26:58 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBM5QwYm001417 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:26:58 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:26:58 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312220026.58349.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Sunday 21 December 2003 11:04 pm, Katie Lewis wrote: > I need a ruff to complete my Elizabethian outfit, and I'm not looking > forward to making it since I hate pleating with a purple passion. > > *So* > > Does anyone know of anyone who will make a ruff for a reasonable price? Depends on what you consider reasonable. This woman will make you one for $75: http://www.relaypoint.net/~pgluck/creativecostumes/blue_ren_woman/ruff_1.html Valentine Armouries will sell you one for $48, but it closes in back with Velcro: http://www.varmouries.com/cloth/ccloth06.html -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 02:46:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM7k8A2002625 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:46:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM7jN4S020821; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:45:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM7kHqq070390; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:46:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM7kDqq070293 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:46:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQA00MCPDJBUS@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:45:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:39:31 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031221233726.00b0b0e8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 11:04 PM 12/21/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I need a ruff to complete my Elizabethian outfit, and I'm not looking >forward to making it since I hate pleating with a purple passion. > >*So* > >Does anyone know of anyone who will make a ruff for a reasonable price? > >-Katie What kind of ruff are you looking for? As in how historically accurate, what type of lace, and what price range? I have made a couple of ruffs myself, but mine are commercial lace tied with grosgrain ribbon ties, and nothing fancy. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 02:46:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM7kDA2002628 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:46:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM7jU4S020841; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:45:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM7kOqq070464; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:46:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM7kDqs070293 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:46:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQA00MCPDJBUS@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:45:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:40:02 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs In-reply-to: <200312220026.58349.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031221233943.021b5cc8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 12:26 AM 12/22/2003 -0500, you wrote: >This woman will make you one for $75: > >http://www.relaypoint.net/~pgluck/creativecostumes/blue_ren_woman/ruff_1.html > >Valentine Armouries will sell you one for $48, but it closes in back with >Velcro: > >http://www.varmouries.com/cloth/ccloth06.html Looks like both are closed in the back with velcro. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 02:46:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM7kdA2002631 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:46:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM7eX4S020616; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:40:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM7fMqq068164; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:41:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM7fKqq068099 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:41:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.1e3.160f642f (16097) for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:40:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m21.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.137]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID111-3ee13fe69fe0d1; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:40:16 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:40:16 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhalebone and in BONE? MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1B885A9E.35E7F330.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/21/2003 7:56:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes: > Plus if you re-use cable ties, you are being ecologically > responsible and recycling. What exactly do you mean by cable ties? I may have caught this thread a little late, but I'm not quite sure I know what you mean? Are you talking what I refer to as "zip ties"? Confused in CA...Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 03:16:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM8GHA2002696 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 03:16:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM8Fd4S021853; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:15:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM8GWqq082230; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:16:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM8GTqq082208 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:16:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC13C1B3CD0 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 04:13:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 13404-04 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 04:13:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D0671B3AB1 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 04:13:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <06ce01c3c863$c4820a40$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 03:15:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 10:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths > --------- Original Message --------- > > DATE: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:44:30 > From: Kimiko Small > To: Historical Costume > Cc: > I have been wanting to try doll dresses, but don't want to shell > >out for a new Barbie that will just end up being >modified in major ways. > > Are there any Big Lots stores in your area? Around here ("here" being the metro-Phoenix AZ area) all of the Big Lots stores have *stacks* of Barbies (in blonde and brunette) for $4. > > -Katie > To heck with even Big Lots, get thee to a thrift shop! Lots of Barbies there. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 04:07:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBM97JA2003248 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 04:07:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM96i4S024276; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:06:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBM97aqq000701; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:07:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBM97Wqq000655 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:07:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031222090636.58082.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:06:36 PST Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:06:36 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhalebone and in BONE? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1B885A9E.35E7F330.3739C57F@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Some folks do call them 'zip ties'. I learned to call them 'cable ties' and 'electricians' ties' because they were used to 'cinch up' ,and hold in tidy rows, the thousands of miles of cabling between the huge distributing frames and the relay racks full of telephone equipment in the local central offices I used to work in. We used quite a few of them when I was employed by Verizon communications. Probably 20 years ago, when I was looking for a good alternative to whalebone for my corsets, I hit on these cables ties as a suitable 'boneing' substitute.I figured that something that could cinch in a few hundred pounds of heavy cabling would probably cinch me in as well:) Our crews would go thru lterally hundreds of them , whenever new equipment was built in---and I soon had the construction crew folks trained to save me the long tails they would cut off after they had cinched the new cables into place:) Heh! I've got enough old cable tie ends collected to probably make anoth! er 30 corsets. One can also buy cable ties at home improvement or electrical supply stores in bags of 20,50, or 100. My favorite size is the long black 5/8 inch wide size. The smaller 3/8 inch ones I've used for 18th century stays, as well as a couple of Edwardians. I love the way I can literally 'wash and wear' corsets made with these cable ties. The dryer does'nt even seem to bother it adversely. I've got an Edwardian corset made of the narrower 3/8 cable ties that is 15 years old--and only now wearing out. Albra MysticsLady9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/21/2003 7:56:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes: > Plus if you re-use cable ties, you are being ecologically > responsible and recycling. What exactly do you mean by cable ties? I may have caught this thread a little late, but I'm not quite sure I know what you mean? Are you talking what I refer to as "zip ties"? Confused in CA...Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 06:51:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMBprA2003720 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 06:51:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMBnE4S001559; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 04:49:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMBo3qq062921; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 04:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [64.28.25.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMBnfqr062763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 04:50:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ingridgs@techarea.net) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [127.0.0.1]) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBMBiA2Q005196 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:44:10 +0100 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id hBMBiA8I005192 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:44:10 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: decna.com: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:44:10 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: viking costume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, Katie Lewis wrote: > Ingrid-Thanks for the translation! I wonder if you could do me a > massive favor and translate the section titled "Vad har horn over?" Hi, Katie! I did post a translation of that a couple of days after the first one - if you missed that post let me know, and I'll send it to you privately (including the changes suggested by list members). :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 08:34:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMDYdA2004063 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:34:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMDY24S006654; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 06:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMDYtqq006024; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 06:34:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMDYrqq006006 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 06:34:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBMDXtAs023016 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:33:55 -0500 Message-ID: <002701c3c890$3f531080$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:33:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I see them on ebay all the time. Maybe check there? :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 11:04 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ruffs > I need a ruff to complete my Elizabethian outfit, and I'm not looking forward to making it since I hate pleating with a purple passion. > > *So* > > Does anyone know of anyone who will make a ruff for a reasonable price? > > -Katie > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Free Poetry Contest. Win $10,000. Submit your poem @ Poetry.com! > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;6750922;3807821;l?http://www.poetry.com/contest/contest.asp?Suite=A59101 > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 08:41:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMDfgA2004094 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:41:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMDf94S007037; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 06:41:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMDg6qq008910; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 06:42:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMDg4qq008870 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 06:42:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LLWatts@aol.com) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.129.37eca970 (4254) for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:40:58 -0500 (EST) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: <129.37eca970.2d184e6a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:40:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6024 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >>>>>>>> Unfortunately with security camera pics, they are generally of such poor quality, it's a wonder they are useful for anything at all. It is definitely a human figure, it looks like it has a robe on like they generally put the Ghost of Christmas Present in for 'A Christmas Carol', the face is very white, but with the level of grain in the image, you can't really see any detail to see if the features are distorted....or even there! >>>>>>>>> When I looked at the picture, I wondered how the security lighting is arranged there -- it looks like light glare on the face to me. Unfortunately we'd need a better camera to tell anything. OT but related to the comments on security cameras, we're in the middle of trials for a multiple murder in my state, and one of the defense lawyers argued that the charges should be thrown out because the security camera footage didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his client was in the bank at the time of the shootings. ((Didn't work, though the pictures _weren't_ the best they were better quality than the ghost photo from CNN.)) Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 09:48:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMEmLA2004388 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:48:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMEl34S010942; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:47:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMElxqq041263; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:47:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMElrqq041178 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:47:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-41-053.jps.net ([209.165.41.53] helo=pavilion) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AYRKg-0005z2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 06:46:55 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01c3c89b$7b7a3b00$3529a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031222090636.58082.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 06:54:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] baleen/cable ties X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: corsets. One can also buy cable ties at home improvement or electrical supply stores in bags of 20,50, or 100. My favorite size is the long black 5/8 inch wide size. The smaller 3/8 inch ones I've used for 18th century stays, as well as a couple of Edwardians. I love the way I can literally 'wash and wear' corsets made with these cable ties. The dryer does'nt even seem to bother it adversely. I've got an Edwardian corset made of the narrower 3/8 cable ties that is 15 years old--and only now wearing out.. > Albra > I'd say that baleen is to cable ties as wool is to acrylic. Definetly not the same product, but enough similarities to make a reasonable substitute. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 09:55:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMEtMA2004435 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:55:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMErq4S012131; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:53:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMEs8qq045977; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:54:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMEs6qq045879 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:54:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Gia_Gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.117 ([204.127.197.117]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20031222144754013006r9vve>; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:47:54 +0000 Received: from [128.95.168.190] by 204.127.197.117; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:47:54 +0000 From: Gia_Gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] lining a velveteen doublet Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:47:54 +0000 Message-Id: <122220031447.5615.5eb8@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 27 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: R2lhX0dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== Cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Greetings! Usually I snip messages for brevity, but you ask important questions. If you don't have a copy of Janet Arnolds Patterns of Fashion (JA PaF)for this period, it would be helpful for future sewing questions. Cotton broadcloth does not translate as truly equal to linen. It doesn't 'breathe' or provides 'wicking' effects like linen does. For lining the doublet: From personal experience, I found that using a light weight (hanky weight) is NOT strong enough for the heavy wear that will occur...especially for a men's doublet! Please, take my advice and do not use the white linen you plan for the shirt for lining the doublet. Also, in JA PaF you will see that the lining is usually heavier weight than the shirt linen. I've used the 100% mid weight (what some call "bottom" or pant/skirt weight) linen for better success. Just be sure to that if it seems to be more open weave than will easily take button hole stitching, that it is pre-washed in hot and dried in hot. For the sleeves, try to use a silk that is a match or a nice contrast, good weight is bridal silk satin. You lord might find it easier to get in and out of the sleeves, since the sleeves are to look like tight fitting...and the sleeves are split, the silk looks like the sleeves can be reversed (or maybe they could be reversible, depending on how they are constructed, and attached to the body) If my memory serves me right, in JA PoF it appeared that the linings are not dyed. I don't have the book in front of me...and it's still in a box...somewhere. Can anyone refresh my memory here? Try to use twill tape to reinforce the arm hole of the body, especially at the underarm front/back, if the sleeves are detatchable. This will help the arm hole maintain it's shape and not 'stretch' with wear. What you use for hand buttonhole stitching matters. If you have not done hand buttonholes before, practice the stitching on the fabrics 'sandwiched' together as if all sewn together. I cheat on button holes. Often I will use the machine buttonholer to give me the 'undersupport' for doing the actual hand stitched buttonholes. Find the buttonhole size on the machine, a tiny bit larger than what you need. Stitch ONCE (don't worry, it should look crappy), slit the buttonhole, and then handstitch the buttonhole over the prepared area. Anyhow, this all I have time for...I hope it helps... Gia/Giacinta > Hi all > > I am working on my husband's 1580's doublet, and I want to line it with linen. > > I have some light-midweight, but not the sheer kind of linen, that I am > using for his shirt. It is white. Should I use this for lining the doublet, > or should I get a heavier linen? Do I need to dye the lining or keep it > white or natural color? I am concerned with sweat leaching dyes from the > black velveteen onto the white linen shirt, or even the lining itself. > > Oh, the sleeves will be in a crimson silk shantung, also lined. Not sure > what color for the sleeve linings either, because they will be split down > the front in a shaped two-piece sleeve. Got to deal with very hot > California summers (100+). > > I plan on interlining with horsehair canvas, like I have always done with > doublets (great for keeping the shape of the body), but I previously used > cotton broadcloth for linings, and am not sure how that translates to linen > linings. > > Any other suggestions for the doublet that I may be overlooking? > > Thanks in advance, and Happy Holidays! > > Kimiko > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 11:19:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMGJFA2004677 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:19:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMGIT4S019560; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:18:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMGImqq006417; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:18:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMGIkqq006361 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:18:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1B1425CE for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:26:11 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FE71B02.9050202@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:25:38 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths References: <06ce01c3c863$c4820a40$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> In-Reply-To: <06ce01c3c863$c4820a40$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > To heck with even Big Lots, get thee to a thrift shop! Lots of Barbies > there. > And dollar stores. Well, they aren't Mattel "Barbie", but the one shop near me has some gorgeous knockoffs with thigh length red hair.... Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 11:46:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMGk3A2004756 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:46:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMGjH4S022844; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMGjfqq026038; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:45:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMGjcqq026016 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:45:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBMGid0E002905 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:44:39 -0500 Message-ID: <004601c3c8aa$e43cef20$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <06ce01c3c863$c4820a40$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> <3FE71B02.9050202@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:44:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I don't know if you have one near you, but those outlet mall places often have a toy liquidator type store. I saw some of the pricey barbies there (the $100 and up ones) for something like $30 if I recall correctly. Regular barbies were really cheap too. I would *love* to collect Barbies or make historical clothing for them... but that would mean I would have to get rid of stuff I already have to make room. Translated, that means I would have to lighten my personal fabric stash and you know THAT isn't going to happen! ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pop Culture Continues to Perpetrate Costume Myths > Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > > > To heck with even Big Lots, get thee to a thrift shop! Lots of Barbies > > there. > > > > And dollar stores. Well, they aren't Mattel "Barbie", but the one shop > near me has some gorgeous knockoffs with thigh length red hair.... > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 11:56:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMGuaA2004795 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:56:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMGtx4S023914; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:55:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMGuMqq033503; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:56:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMGuLqq033434 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:56:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.137.2939a124 (17228) for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:55:11 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <137.2939a124.2d187bef@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:55:11 EST Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhalebone and in... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com So, you wouldn't bundle these as you would a reed corset, but use them flat (especially if they're 5/8" thick), as you would metal boning. Very interesting. How well does this do away with the hip and under-arm pinching? Tabbed corsets? Laura, very interested now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 12:29:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMHTYA2004881 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:29:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMHPT4S026714; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:25:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMHPuqq053463; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:25:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBMHPsqq053441 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:25:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031222172454.59461.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:24:54 PST Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:24:54 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhalebone and in... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <137.2939a124.2d187bef@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Well, first, I should clarify that --the cable ties I like to use most are 5/8 in width, width being when you look at them straight on, but actually in depth, maybe 1/5 of an inch thick. And yes, I use them flat, as one would with metal boning. Having said that, I find that as long as I am careful not to cut my armholes too high --they don't pinch, also as long as the corset is interlined with a firm fabric those sharp ends won't poke thru either. I'm thinking of dipping the ends in fingernail polish to see how well that coats the ends for my next corset(which I need to be doing in the next day or so!) As to tabbed corsets, I simply extend the the 'bones' into the hip tabs,side , front and back ,which I cut into the shape of the pattern. They comfortably smooth without binding. Hope this helps-- Albra MysticsLady9@aol.com wrote: So, you wouldn't bundle these as you would a reed corset, but use them flat (especially if they're 5/8" thick), as you would metal boning. Very interesting. How well does this do away with the hip and under-arm pinching? Tabbed corsets? Laura, very interested now _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 12:32:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMHWOA2004893 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:32:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMHVb4S027535; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:31:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMHV9qq057065; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:31:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMHV5qq056952 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:31:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.17d.24c72641 (17228) for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:29:50 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <17d.24c72641.2d18840e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:29:50 EST Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhalebone and in... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Yes it did help immensely, Albra, thank you. Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 12:46:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMHkxA2004921 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:46:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMHk64S029468; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMHjtqq067903; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:45:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMHjsqq067843 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:45:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72AC3425CE for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:53:19 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FE72F6E.9070906@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:52:46 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhalebone and in... References: <20031222172454.59461.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031222172454.59461.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > I'm thinking of dipping the ends in fingernail polish to see how well that coats the ends for my next corset(which I need to be doing in the next day or so!) I don't think you'll see good long-term results with nail polish. I used it once, as a teenager, for a protective coating on a metal statuette to keep it from tarnishing. It worked for a while, but after a couple months I noticed the coating was coming off. The piece hadn't been handled, and I would swear the stuff was *evaporating*. It seemed to shrink and get thinner then disappear completely. If you want something cheap to dip into, you might try 2-part epoxy. Stinks to high heaven, but after you get it mixed and dipped it will dry like cement. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 13:50:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMIolA2005094 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:50:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMInx4S006400; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:49:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMIniqq015202; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:49:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMIneqq015092 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:49:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@infotrope.net) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E66336F32 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:48:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AYV6b-0000YA-00 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:48:37 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume In-Reply-To: <001801c3c71a$0d6c8a00$5d2da5d1@pavilion> References: <14b.285f66af.2d15c87c@aol.com> <001801c3c71a$0d6c8a00$5d2da5d1@pavilion> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:48:37 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Lisa wrote: > I think Bjarne was kidding. Too bad the ghost wasn't wearing an exposed bum > roll and the photography wasn't better or some new costuming knowledge would > have been revealed! ;-) Speaking of exposed bumrolls... two nights ago I saw a wonderful picture showing a group of late 16th century ladies in various states of undress, showing their french farthingales in such excellent detail that we could see all the construction methods and everything. As soon as I saw it I thought "I must post this to the h-cost list! They'll be so excited!" The downside? It was a fever dream. I've been ill. Sigh. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 14:17:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMJHwA2005177 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:17:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMJHM4S009010; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:17:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMJHBqq034755; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:17:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMJH7qq034645 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:17:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.ba.4c5b756f (3932) for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:15:49 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:15:49 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/22/2003 10:53:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, skud@infotrope.net writes: Speaking of exposed bumrolls... two nights ago I saw a wonderful picture showing a group of late 16th century ladies in various states of undress, showing their french farthingales in such excellent detail that we could see all the construction methods and everything. The downside? It was a fever dream. I've been ill. K! You big tease! Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 14:55:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMJtrA2005371 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:55:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMJtC4S013533; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:55:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMJt0qq065018; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:55:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMJsuqq064980 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:54:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id ABD45504EC; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:53:56 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:53:56 -0600 Message-ID: <000701c3c8c5$55c40c90$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <3FE72F6E.9070906@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Also at the hardware store- "Dip-It" a can of goo for covering tool handles. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:53 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhaleboneand in... KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > I'm thinking of dipping the ends in fingernail polish to see how well that coats the ends for my next corset(which I need to be doing in the next day or so!) I don't think you'll see good long-term results with nail polish. I used it once, as a teenager, for a protective coating on a metal statuette to keep it from tarnishing. It worked for a while, but after a couple months I noticed the coating was coming off. The piece hadn't been handled, and I would swear the stuff was *evaporating*. It seemed to shrink and get thinner then disappear completely. If you want something cheap to dip into, you might try 2-part epoxy. Stinks to high heaven, but after you get it mixed and dipped it will dry like cement. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 15:41:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMKf7A2005524 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:41:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMKdn4S017951; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:39:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMKcOqq097312; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:38:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBMKcDqq097170 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:38:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 29439 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2003 20:39:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.11) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net with SMTP; 22 Dec 2003 20:39:55 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031222123425.00c0d778@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:37:17 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Cable ties, was RE: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - In-Reply-To: <000701c3c8c5$55c40c90$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> References: <3FE72F6E.9070906@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2 SNWK Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Actually, if you simply round the cut ends of the cable lies with shears or a file you don't need to have *any* kind of coating. The plastic of the cable ties is not hard enough to cut through coutil (which is what I use for my corsets). Joan in Sacramento, CA At 01:53 PM 12/22/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Also at the hardware store- "Dip-It" a can of goo for covering tool >handles. > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] >On Behalf Of Dawn >Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:53 AM >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they >everusewhaleboneand in... > >KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > > > I'm thinking of dipping the ends in fingernail > >polish to see how well that coats the ends for my next corset(which I >need to be > >doing in the next day or so!) > > > >I don't think you'll see good long-term results with nail polish. I used > >it once, as a teenager, for a protective coating on a metal statuette to > >keep it from tarnishing. It worked for a while, but after a couple >months I noticed the coating was coming off. The piece hadn't been >handled, and I would swear the stuff was *evaporating*. It seemed to >shrink and get thinner then disappear completely. > > >If you want something cheap to dip into, you might try 2-part epoxy. >Stinks to high heaven, but after you get it mixed and dipped it will dry > >like cement. > > > >Dawn > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 15:43:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMKhMA2005534 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:43:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMKgk4S018199; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:42:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMKgbqq000708; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:42:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMKgaqq000671 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:42:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip97.207-173-13.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.13.97]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384D36A96C for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:41:33 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:41:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhalebone and in... Message-ID: <3FE6E677.24149.83493EC@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031222172454.59461.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> References: <137.2939a124.2d187bef@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > I'm thinking of dipping the > ends in fingernail polish to see how well that coats the ends for my > next corset(which I need to be doing in the next day or so!) There is a dip meant for tools which works if you can't find bone dipping stuff. But interestingly, I found out that the bone dipping stuff is just acrylic paint. So you could get a tube of white acrylic paint and dip it in that, let it dry and dip it again to get the same effect. (It should be dipped many times for best effect rather than just put on thickly.) I sometimes use fingernail polish but it takes a lot more dipping in that to get it coated well enough. Again, if you put it on too thick it tends to come off (cracks) and chew things up. > Very interesting. How well does this do away with the hip and > under-arm pinching? Tabbed corsets? I've found that the most common reason for underarm pinching is that the corset is cut down too far on the hip at the sides. While for many styles you want to have the front quite a deep V, it shouldn't be longer than the distance from your underarm to the bottom of your rib cage on the sides. Otherwise when you move, it will dig into your hips, which in turn pushes it up into your armpit, both of which are uncomfortable. Tabbing on the corset can help some, but not all corsets were tabbed. And those who were tabbed do not all have boning in their tabs. Look at the time period of corset you are trying to duplicate to know if it should be tabbed or not, and if bones should extend into those tabs. If you do have tabs which are boned, then you need to have the tabs extend way down over the hips. Otherwise they tend to lift when you move, then jab down onto the hip (and then up into your armpit as with a corset which is too long on the sides but untabbed.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 15:46:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMKkHA2005548 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:46:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMKje4S018705; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:45:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMKjJqq002696; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:45:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBMKjIqq002677 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:45:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031222204416.39591.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:44:16 PST Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:44:16 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: RE: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000701c3c8c5$55c40c90$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Ohhhh--- new options to consider---Dip-It and 2- part epoxy. I actually had wondered how well the fingernail polish trick was going to work on plastic, anyway. After your suggestions, I think I may just pick up both the of the other 2 products and do some experiements. I promise I'll report back with my results as to which product worked the better:) And --since I have to have this corset made VERY soon---you will hopefully hear that report before New Year's:) Many thanks for all your suggestions! Albra Betsy Marshall wrote: Also at the hardware store- "Dip-It" a can of goo for covering tool handles. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:53 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhaleboneand in... KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > I'm thinking of dipping the ends in fingernail polish to see how well that coats the ends for my next corset(which I need to be doing in the next day or so!) I don't think you'll see good long-term results with nail polish. I used it once, as a teenager, for a protective coating on a metal statuette to keep it from tarnishing. It worked for a while, but after a couple months I noticed the coating was coming off. The piece hadn't been handled, and I would swear the stuff was *evaporating*. It seemed to shrink and get thinner then disappear completely. If you want something cheap to dip into, you might try 2-part epoxy. Stinks to high heaven, but after you get it mixed and dipped it will dry like cement. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 16:02:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBML2qA2005592 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:02:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBML274S020631; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:02:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBML1vqq015719; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:01:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80407.mail.yahoo.com (web80407.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBML1tqq015577 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:01:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jenniferfleury@sbcglobal.net) Message-ID: <20031222210048.1906.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.33.38.23] by web80407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:00:48 PST Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:00:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Fleury Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200312221901.hBMJ0xqr023418@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I sometimes use tool dip to dip the ends of corset bones when I have to cut them down. It's the rubber stuff on the handles of pliers and other tools and you can buy a small can of it in many hardware stores in the tool section. you just dip the material into it and let it dry. Jennifer Fleury Assistant Property Master "Century City" Universal Network Television _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 16:42:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMLgkA2005692 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:42:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMLfj4S024914; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:41:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMLfZqq045589; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:41:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMLfWqq045559 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:41:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-65.58.149.65.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([65.58.149.65] helo=4gxif) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AYXmw-0001m9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:40:30 -0500 Message-ID: <00cd01c3c8d4$4cbd4440$41953a41@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031222172454.59461.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:41:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More on Corset Stays X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com There is a product called "Tool Magic" which is a thick liquid rubber. It is used on pliers to eliminate the tool marks on jewelry or on other tool handles to provide a better or a cushioned grip. You can build up a thickness by dipping several times, and it's removable, at least on metal. (I use it on forming pliers.) A two-ounce jar costs about $5, lasts a long time, and comes in clear and a variety of colors. Jewelry suppliers and hardware stores should have it; here's an on-line source: http://www.thebeadfactory.com/shopping/tool_magic.html I think it may work better than nail polish. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 17:11:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMMBXA2005828 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:11:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMMAu4S028299; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:10:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMMAkqq068996; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:10:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9401.mail.yahoo.com (web9401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBMMAjqq068983 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:10:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031222220942.13229.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:09:42 PST Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:09:42 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: Cable ties, was RE: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20031222123425.00c0d778@pop.surewest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Well , it's good to know that there *is* a fabric those cable ties won't cut thru:) I've made corsets using everything from thick canvas, to heavy weight linen, heavy satin--and always ended up putting an interling in the main body, as well as bias trim over the edges to make a nice 'cush' between myself and the cable ties. Even the even fabric after awhile would begin to get cut thru. I'm beginning to think I must be rather rough on my corsets. And filing is, by far the cheapest suggestion. thanks! Albra Joan Jurancich wrote: Actually, if you simply round the cut ends of the cable lies with shears or a file you don't need to have *any* kind of coating. The plastic of the cable ties is not hard enough to cut through coutil (which is what I use for my corsets). Joan in Sacramento, CA At 01:53 PM 12/22/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Also at the hardware store- "Dip-It" a can of goo for covering tool >handles. > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] >On Behalf Of Dawn >Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:53 AM >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they >everusewhaleboneand in... > >KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > > > I'm thinking of dipping the ends in fingernail > >polish to see how well that coats the ends for my next corset(which I >need to be > >doing in the next day or so!) > > > >I don't think you'll see good long-term results with nail polish. I used > >it once, as a teenager, for a protective coating on a metal statuette to > >keep it from tarnishing. It worked for a while, but after a couple >months I noticed the coating was coming off. The piece hadn't been >handled, and I would swear the stuff was *evaporating*. It seemed to >shrink and get thinner then disappear completely. > > >If you want something cheap to dip into, you might try 2-part epoxy. >Stinks to high heaven, but after you get it mixed and dipped it will dry > >like cement. > > > >Dawn > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 17:39:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMMd0A2005952 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:39:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMMcN4S001654; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:38:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMMcEqq089235; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:38:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBMMcAqq089193 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:38:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031222223707.65932.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:37:07 PST Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:37:07 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] More on Corset Stays To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00cd01c3c8d4$4cbd4440$41953a41@4gxif> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Helen-- thanks for the link to that great site:) I not only ordered theTool Magic, but also some of the silver and gold wire I had run out of for my christmas projects--- Albra (who gets sidetracked all too easily) Helen Pinto wrote: There is a product called "Tool Magic" which is a thick liquid rubber. It is used on pliers to eliminate the tool marks on jewelry or on other tool handles to provide a better or a cushioned grip. You can build up a thickness by dipping several times, and it's removable, at least on metal. (I use it on forming pliers.) A two-ounce jar costs about $5, lasts a long time, and comes in clear and a variety of colors. Jewelry suppliers and hardware stores should have it; here's an on-line source: http://www.thebeadfactory.com/shopping/tool_magic.html I think it may work better than nail polish. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 17:41:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMMfaA2005958 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:41:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMMeu4S002042; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:40:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMMemqq091665; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:40:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.primushost.com (smtp2.primushost.com [209.58.220.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMMdFqr089907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:39:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1AYYgV-0003D3-Bx; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:37:55 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1AYYRI-0001Vx-00; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:22:12 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:22:12 -0500 (EST) From: Katy Bishop To: historic costume Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ancient textiles book on ebay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com There is a book I can across on ebay on "ancient danish textiles" The price it cheap, not a period I am interested in but thought some of you might be: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=362&item=2583025807 Katy Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 17:57:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBMMvXA2006013 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:57:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMMup4S003831; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:56:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMMueqq003575; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:56:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBMMudqq003563 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:56:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (adsl-63-202-184-231.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.184.231]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B45D2F961 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:59:02 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <20031222172454.59461.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031222172454.59461.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhalebone and in... Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:55:35 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com How much bulk do they add to the body of the corset? On Dec 22, 2003, at 9:24 AM, KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > Well, first, I should clarify that --the cable ties I like to use > most are 5/8 in width, width being when you look at them straight on, > but actually in depth, maybe 1/5 of an inch thick. And yes, I use them > flat, as one would with metal boning. Having said that, I find that as > long as I am careful not to cut my armholes too high --they don't > pinch, also as long as the corset is interlined with a firm fabric > those sharp ends won't poke thru either. I'm thinking of dipping the > ends in fingernail polish to see how well that coats the ends for my > next corset(which I need to be doing in the next day or so!) As to > tabbed corsets, I simply extend the the 'bones' into the hip tabs,side > , front and back ,which I cut into the shape of the pattern. They > comfortably smooth without binding. > Hope this helps-- > Albra > > MysticsLady9@aol.com wrote: > So, you wouldn't bundle these as you would a reed corset, but use them > flat > (especially if they're 5/8" thick), as you would metal boning. Very > interesting. How well does this do away with the hip and under-arm > pinching? Tabbed > corsets? > > > > Laura, very interested now > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 20:01:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBN11TA2006394 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:01:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN10h4S014782; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:00:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN11fqq086468; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:01:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9403.mail.yahoo.com (web9403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBN11eqq086461 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:01:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031223010036.80259.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:00:36 PST Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:00:36 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - Did they everusewhalebone and in... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Well, I just re-measured , and the thickness is a bit more than 1/10 of an inch--on a ca tie that so calculate that plus 3 layers of your choice of fabrics---- Albra Heather Meadows wrote: How much bulk do they add to the body of the corset? On Dec 22, 2003, at 9:24 AM, KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > Well, first, I should clarify that --the cable ties I like to use > most are 5/8 in width, width being when you look at them straight on, > but actually in depth, maybe 1/5 of an inch thick. And yes, I use them > flat, as one would with metal boning. Having said that, I find that as > long as I am careful not to cut my armholes too high --they don't > pinch, also as long as the corset is interlined with a firm fabric > those sharp ends won't poke thru either. I'm thinking of dipping the > ends in fingernail polish to see how well that coats the ends for my > next corset(which I need to be doing in the next day or so!) As to > tabbed corsets, I simply extend the the 'bones' into the hip tabs,side > , front and back ,which I cut into the shape of the pattern. They > comfortably smooth without binding. > Hope this helps-- > Albra > > MysticsLady9@aol.com wrote: > So, you wouldn't bundle these as you would a reed corset, but use them > flat > (especially if they're 5/8" thick), as you would metal boning. Very > interesting. How well does this do away with the hip and under-arm > pinching? Tabbed > corsets? > > > > Laura, very interested now > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 22:54:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBN3sxA2006864 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:54:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN3rs4S027034; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:53:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN3svqq074594; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:54:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12001.mail.yahoo.com (web12001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBN3stqq074580 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:54:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rosenau5@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031223035349.160.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.224.132] by web12001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 19:53:49 PST Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 19:53:49 -0800 (PST) From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sesame Street fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I don't remember who was looking for Sesame Street fabric but my local Hobby Lobby just got in a bolt of Sesame Street characters on flannel. Cassandra __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 22 23:29:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBN4TrA2006987 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 23:29:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN4Sv4S029623; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 21:28:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN4Ttqq092920; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 21:29:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN4Trqq092910 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 21:29:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-36-046.jps.net ([209.165.36.46] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AYeA2-0007IM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:28:47 -0800 Message-ID: <000801c3c90e$4a9af420$2e24a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <14b.285f66af.2d15c87c@aol.com><001801c3c71a$0d6c8a00$5d2da5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ghost in period costume Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:36:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Kirrily wrote: > > Speaking of exposed bumrolls... two nights ago I saw a wonderful picture > showing a group of late 16th century ladies in various states of > undress, showing their french farthingales in such excellent detail that > we could see all the construction methods and everything. As soon as I > saw it I thought "I must post this to the h-cost list! They'll be so > excited!" > > The downside? It was a fever dream. I've been ill. > Oh don't you just hate that when that happens!!! ;-) Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 23 00:22:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBN5M3A2007140 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 00:22:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN5LO4S002980; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:21:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN5MSqq020004; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:22:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN5MQqq019891 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:22:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a2-72.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.248.72]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id AD4ED68131 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:20:58 +1100 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ghost in period costume Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:23:44 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <129.37eca970.2d184e6a@aol.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Ghost in a pic? Like that thing thrashing around the Internet? Of all the photos and all the directions to be facing and all the times over all the shoulders and all the photographic compositions, the ghost had to choose this one. My tip for the period/origin of the costume? 2003AD from someone's fancy dress box. Isn't it amazing how the ghost looks just like any one of a dozen gothy picture book images? Or am I just a cynic? Maybe we should get the psychic archaologists onto the case, -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 23 00:29:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBN5TfA2007173 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 00:29:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN5T64S003458; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:29:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN5UAqq023683; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:30:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN5U9qq023665 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:30:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-16.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.16]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN5T02N007788 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 23:29:01 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031222202624.057c99a0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:27:49 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Cable ties, was RE: It arrived!! Re: [h-cost] Corset Stays - In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20031222123425.00c0d778@pop.surewest.net> References: <000701c3c8c5$55c40c90$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> <3FE72F6E.9070906@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >Actually, if you simply round the cut ends of the cable lies with shears >or a file you don't need to have *any* kind of coating. The plastic of the >cable ties is not hard enough to cut through coutil (which is what I use >for my corsets). Very round. They work thru eventually if there are any even-slightly-pointy edges. Possibly they work thru anyway. So embroider those little bone-stops at the ends of all your bones, like many period corsets have. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 23 00:29:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBN5TkA2007176 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 00:29:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN5TC4S003476; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:29:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN5UIqq023771; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:30:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN5UAqq023677 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:30:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-16.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.16]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN5T02P007788 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 23:29:03 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031222202809.057cdb80@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:29:09 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] More on Corset Stays In-Reply-To: <00cd01c3c8d4$4cbd4440$41953a41@4gxif> References: <20031222172454.59461.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >There is a product called "Tool Magic" which is a thick liquid rubber. It >is used on pliers to eliminate the tool marks on jewelry or on other tool >handles to provide a better or a cushioned grip. You can build up a >thickness by dipping several times, and it's removable, at least on metal. >(I use it on forming pliers.) A two-ounce jar costs about $5, lasts a long >time, and comes in clear and a variety of colors. Jewelry suppliers and >hardware stores should have it; here's an on-line source: > >http://www.thebeadfactory.com/shopping/tool_magic.html > >I think it may work better than nail polish. I always wanted the name of that stuff. Thank you so much. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 23 02:31:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBN7VgA2011369 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 02:31:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN7Lr4S009331; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 00:21:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN7Mvqq073458; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 00:22:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBN7Muqq073449 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 00:22:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQC00JLS74BA6@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 23:21:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 23:19:34 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] lining a velveteen doublet In-reply-to: <000601c3c804$e1449b20$3532a5d1@pavilion> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031222231742.02081610@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031220231718.00b0afc0@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 12:56 PM 12/21/2003 -0800, you wrote: > "Kimiko Small wrote: > > > I have some light-midweight, but not the sheer kind of linen, that I am > > using for his shirt. It is white. Should I use this for lining the >doublet, > > or should I get a heavier linen? > >Depends on how much body you want the linen to provide. Hard to answer this >without handling both fabrics. > > >Do I need to dye the lining or keep it > > white or natural color? I am concerned with sweat leaching dyes from the > > black velveteen onto the white linen shirt, or even the lining itself. > >This might very well happen, but if you dye the lining that dye might leach >onto your light shirt. I'd probably only dye the lining if I thought bits >of it might show and be distracting to the outer fabric, but this also >depends on how stable the dyeing process is for this particular fabric. If >stable, then go for it if you'd prefer another colour. > >Lisa Hi Lisa I am thinking I may do a colored silk piping in areas where the lining might show, like the front and the collar. I am not sure if that is proper and period tho', so I am going to have to research that some more. Thanks so much for your reply. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 23 12:12:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBNHC8A2002602 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:12:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNH8o4S028537; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:08:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNH9sqq040200; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:09:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBNH9pqq040159 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:09:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 31251 invoked from network); 23 Dec 2003 17:08:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.11) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net with SMTP; 23 Dec 2003 17:08:25 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031223085737.00c124c8@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:08:24 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] ancient textiles book on ebay In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I bought the English edition of this book ("Ancient Danish Textiles from Bogs and Burials: A Comparative Study of Costume and Iron Age Textiles") shortly after it came out in 1980 (ISBN 87-480-0312-3). It's a wonderful book. I periodically re-read it just because it's fascinating. And I still want to try weaving on a warp-weighted loom. I remember seeing the original Danish edition (from a library copy) and wanting it in English. So far the bid is up to $76 (US). At 05:22 PM 12/22/2003 -0500, you wrote: >There is a book I can across on ebay on "ancient danish textiles" The >price it cheap, not a period I am interested in but thought some of you >might be: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=362&item=2583025807 > >Katy > >Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian >vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 23 14:24:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBNJOlA2003244 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:24:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNJNx4S011223; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:23:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNJOtqq026742; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:24:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNJOnqq026659 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:24:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f52.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.82]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A30275EE16F for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:23:32 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001701c3c98a$483ec950$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:23:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Dear Katie, I would love to make one for you, free of charge, if you have the time and patience. I need to ship it for you from Europe then. This is because it is such a long time since i made one last and you only have to pay the expences. And apropos this topic, i just got a photo from my textile club of a ruff from 1600 in Sweden. It is tripple with lace and fine fine gathering Bjarne in Denmark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 5:04 AM Subject: [h-cost] Ruffs > I need a ruff to complete my Elizabethian outfit, and I'm not looking forward to making it since I hate pleating with a purple passion. > > *So* > > Does anyone know of anyone who will make a ruff for a reasonable price? > > -Katie > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Free Poetry Contest. Win $10,000. Submit your poem @ Poetry.com! > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;6750922;3807821;l?http://www.poetry.com/contest/contest.asp?Suite=A59101 > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 23 14:50:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBNJolA2003296 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:50:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNJoB4S013897; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:50:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNJpOqq044789; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:51:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNJpMqq044766 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:51:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f52.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.82]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6937C47FF2A for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:50:02 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005001c3c98d$fce16ef0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031220231718.00b0afc0@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] lining a velveteen doublet Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:50:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Dear Kimiko, I shoudl have answered this days ago when you asked. I would say that you should use the fine linen for your husband to sweat on and when you line with the stiff thing, the finer linen should be perfect for the meeting with the body Merry christmas Kimiko!!!! Bjarne......................................... Bjarne--- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 8:24 AM Subject: [h-cost] lining a velveteen doublet > Hi all > > I am working on my husband's 1580's doublet, and I want to line it with linen. > > I have some light-midweight, but not the sheer kind of linen, that I am > using for his shirt. It is white. Should I use this for lining the doublet, > or should I get a heavier linen? Do I need to dye the lining or keep it > white or natural color? I am concerned with sweat leaching dyes from the > black velveteen onto the white linen shirt, or even the lining itself. > > Oh, the sleeves will be in a crimson silk shantung, also lined. Not sure > what color for the sleeve linings either, because they will be split down > the front in a shaped two-piece sleeve. Got to deal with very hot > California summers (100+). > > I plan on interlining with horsehair canvas, like I have always done with > doublets (great for keeping the shape of the body), but I previously used > cotton broadcloth for linings, and am not sure how that translates to linen > linings. > > Any other suggestions for the doublet that I may be overlooking? > > Thanks in advance, and Happy Holidays! > > Kimiko > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 23 15:06:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBNK6oA2003321 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:06:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNK684S015084; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNK78qq054811; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:07:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41108.mail.yahoo.com (web41108.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBNK71qq054600 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:07:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anastasi5@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031223200541.69983.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.151.100.130] by web41108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:05:41 PST Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:05:41 -0800 (PST) From: Stacey To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200312230523.hBN5NCqs020421@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cable tie ends X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com What I do to smooth the ends of rigilene I suppose can be done to plastic cable ties: melting them! I just wave the end over a candle flame just enough so it gets soft, and smooth it down with my fingers. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 23 15:17:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBNKHJA2003368 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:17:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNKGi4S015916; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:16:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNKHrqq061388; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:17:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNKHnqq061271 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:17:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:16:30 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:16:19 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hBNKHnqq061271 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Clouet Update X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Well, I haven't been able to find an solid attribute for the portrait of Catherine d' Medici I has asked about but I found this website with tons, and I do mean TONS of images of drawings by Francois Clouet. Back the page up and put in a search of Jean and there are over 100. More than there were in the book! http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/joconde_fr?ACTION=CHERCHER&FIELD_1=AUTR&VALUE_1=CLOUET%20François&DOM=All&REL_SPECIFIC=1&IMAGE_ONLY=CHECKED If I am understanding the descriptions correctly, these are red & black chalk drawings made in preparation for an oil painting. The faces are rendered in great detail and most of the clothing is lightly sketched in but there is still a wealth of information for someone wanting to research a costume from this period. Thanks to everyone who sent me books to try, unfortunately, I am still looking. I even tried contacting History Magazine but all they knew was that they got it from a copyright free clipart service. Thanks again and enjoy! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 23 16:42:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBNLg3A2003722 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:42:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNLfC4S024200; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:41:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNLgOqq018266; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:42:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNLgMqq018246 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:42:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AYuH5-0001fl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:41:07 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Clouet Update Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:41:23 -0700 Message-ID: <001101c3c99d$8328bf40$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com What a fabulous link! Thanks! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 23 16:48:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBNLmOA2003731 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:48:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNLlG4S024689; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:47:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNLmUqq022208; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:48:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNLmBqq021946 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:48:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip186.207-173-100.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.100.186]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D1056AA24 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:46:53 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:46:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clouet Update Message-ID: <3FE84753.11173.D96EE14@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > Well, I haven't been able to find an solid attribute for the portrait > of Catherine d' Medici I has asked about but I found this website with > tons, and I do mean TONS of images of drawings by Francois Clouet. > Back the page up and put in a search of Jean and there are over 100. > More than there were in the book! Wow! This is quite a site. I haven't seen some of those since I found a book of Clouet drawings in the University of Washington Art Library (a book I haven't seen since and unfortunately didn't write down all the information about it. Sigh.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 23 17:05:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBNM5hA2003773 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:05:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNM534S026161; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNM6Gqq034184; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:06:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBNM6Eqq034161 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:06:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031223220458.6060.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:04:58 PST Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:04:58 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clouet Update To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Terrific site, Catherine! Thanks mucho, for sharing! Albra Catherine Kinsey wrote: Well, I haven't been able to find an solid attribute for the portrait of Catherine d' Medici I has asked about but I found this website with tons, and I do mean TONS of images of drawings by Francois Clouet. Back the page up and put in a search of Jean and there are over 100. More than there were in the book! http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/joconde_fr?ACTION=CHERCHER&FIELD_1=AUTR&VALUE_1=CLOUET%20François&DOM=All&REL_SPECIFIC=1&IMAGE_ONLY=CHECKED If I am understanding the descriptions correctly, these are red & black chalk drawings made in preparation for an oil painting. The faces are rendered in great detail and most of the clothing is lightly sketched in but there is still a wealth of information for someone wanting to research a costume from this period. Thanks to everyone who sent me books to try, unfortunately, I am still looking. I even tried contacting History Magazine but all they knew was that they got it from a copyright free clipart service. Thanks again and enjoy! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 23 18:14:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBNNEVA2003945 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 18:14:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNN0g4S001333; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:00:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBNN1tqq069593; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:01:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBNN1rqq069516 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:01:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCs8LWLEH2Vl9Rlw5qTzx3b9b8JhbFnoKsQ==">; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:00:26 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JH5B5ZVH; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:00:26 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:53:36 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clouet Update Message-ID: <20031223.165336.-441845.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-6 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com That's a terrific web site! I've bookmarked it for future reference. There are a number of portaits I've never seen before and I always get excited when I find new ones! Wheee! doin' the happy costume research dance! Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 24 00:37:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBO5b5A2005184 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 00:37:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBO5aE4S027041; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 22:36:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBO5bQqq056217; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 22:37:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBO5bOqq056196 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 22:37:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alderweb@vaxxine.com) Received: from alderweb.vaxxine.com (ppp75.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.232.75]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBO5a31s025654 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 00:36:04 -0500 (EST) X-RCPT-To: Message-Id: <4.3.0.20031224001216.02334810@pop.vaxxine.com> X-Sender: alderweb@pop.vaxxine.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 00:42:30 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: David Webb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Two 18th c. textile articles & cool pigments site X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hello everyone: The December issue of the magazine "Antiques" has an interesting article on: "Eighteenth and nineteenth century multicolored linen from southeastern Pennsylvania" Hoag, Doris. Antiques. Vol. CLXIV, No. 6, December 2003. It's interesting because she analyzed almost 1,600 handspun textiles from private and public collections in Pennsylvania and found only a five colour combinations - blue and white; brown and white; blue, brown and white; brown and blue; and dark blue and light blue. There is a range of blue and browns illustrated. Early American Life for December 2003 also has a brief article on indigo dyed textiles. By coincidence I came across some information on Kremer Pigments at: http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/englisch/contents.htm I was trying to nail sources of lime plaster (but that's another story), but serendity and Google are glorious things . Kremers sell organic pigments, and just the names are to dream over (OK, maybe gamboge is not a name to dream over, but Tyrian Purple, Indian lake and Anatolian madder, etc. are! My attempts at dyeing large pieces of fabric have been disasters, and I'm fighting temption ... Enjoy and have a great Christmas Sheridan Alder _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 24 04:24:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBO9O0A2031914 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 04:24:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBO9JE4S007739; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 02:19:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBO9KUqq044338; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 02:20:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBO9KSqq044327 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 02:20:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQE001GE77U53@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 01:19:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 01:15:20 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] lining a velveteen doublet In-reply-to: <005001c3c98d$fce16ef0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031224011451.0208a380@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031220231718.00b0afc0@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 08:50 PM 12/23/2003 +0100, you wrote: >Dear Kimiko, >I shoudl have answered this days ago when you asked. >I would say that you should use the fine linen for your husband to sweat on >and when you line with the stiff thing, the finer linen should be perfect >for the meeting with the body > >Merry christmas Kimiko!!!! >Bjarne......................................... Hi Bjarne Thanks so much for the advice. And I hope you, too, have a very Merry Christmas! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 24 07:47:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBOCl5A2032406 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 07:47:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOCkE4S017557; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 05:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOClVqq022009; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 05:47:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOClTqq021955 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 05:47:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hBOCm9A13516.; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:48:09 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:46:14 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:44:42 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Happy Christmas! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I shall be away from a computer until 5th Jan. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 24 12:38:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBOHcUA2000668 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:38:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOHbi4S006998; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:37:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOHd0qq058576; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:39:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBOHcwqq058560 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031224173733.28244.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 09:37:33 PST Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 09:37:33 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Happy Holidays! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com A Very Happy Holiday Season to Everyone--- With' Champagne Wishes' and 'Costumner's Dreams' coming true in this New Year!! Cheers and Best-- Albra --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 24 13:48:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBOImLA2000910 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 13:48:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOIlS4S012520; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:47:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOImnqq000723; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:48:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOImkqq000696 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:48:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from margo@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a126.directcon.net [207.215.72.126]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hBOIqS604106; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:52:28 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031224104339.011c9c90@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:43:39 -0800 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] More on Corset Stays In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031222202809.057cdb80@mail.frys.com> References: <00cd01c3c8d4$4cbd4440$41953a41@4gxif> <20031222172454.59461.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com For cable tie ends, I hold them in a candle flame till they melt enough to round the edge. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 24 13:49:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBOInbA2000915 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 13:49:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOImx4S012625; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:48:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOIoPqq001814; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBOIoNqq001803 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:50:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031224184857.79755.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:48:57 PST Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:48:57 -0800 (PST) From: Angela Kessler To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000801c3c81b$13b977e0$932da5d1@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: baleen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com --- Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Good advice! I'll do some checking. You know, I'm > just satisfied that I > know what the properties of baleen are. It's very > hard to find a substitute > for something if you don't know what the original is > like. Not an option for everybody, depending on geography, but I have seen a piece of baleen on a whale watch I went on, as part of a little educational display they had set up. Perhaps I wouldn't have paid all that money just to handle baleen, but by the way I also got to see some whales in their natural habitat. -Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 24 15:02:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBOK2PA2001098 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:02:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOJnU4S016714; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:49:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOJomqq036557; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:50:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOJokqq036539 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:50:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.110] (pm7-110.eos.net [205.133.149.110]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBOJnHc2009240 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:49:18 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:50:21 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312241901.hBOJ11qr008396@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Merry Christmas X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Merry Christmas everyone! If you don't celebrate Christmas, then I wish you Merry Everything! And a happy new year to all-- Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 24 17:30:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBOMUZA2001620 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:30:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOMSJ4S027049; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:28:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOMTdqq016091; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:29:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBOMTcqq016078 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:29:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-45-125.jps.net ([209.165.45.125] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AZHU9-00003a-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:28:10 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01c3ca6e$4350fbe0$7d2da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Merry Christmas Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:35:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Yes, Merry Christmas to everyone from me too, or a happy holiday or holiday NOT those who don't celebrate Christmas but something else or nothing at all. . Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 11:50 AM Subject: [h-cost] Merry Christmas > > Merry Christmas everyone! If you don't celebrate Christmas, then I wish you > Merry Everything! And a happy new year to all-- > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 24 18:08:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBON8CA2001720 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 18:08:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBON6r4S029562; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:06:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBON8Kqq032423; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:08:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBON8Jqq032393 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:08:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from margo@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp28.directcon.net [209.79.209.28] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hBONBw608909; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:11:58 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:03:08 -0800 To: Historical Costume , "Historical Costume" From: Margo Anderson In-Reply-To: <000c01c3ca6e$4350fbe0$7d2da5d1@pavilion> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I've made a tradition of this for the last several years... And I'm posting now since I figure some of you East Coast types who open your prezzies on Christmas Eve may be ready to report. So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? Merry Christmas, Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 24 18:34:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBONY0A2001771 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 18:34:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBONNA4S000332; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:23:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBONObqq038736; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:24:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.83.231] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBONOZqq038710 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:24:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD64A48354 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 18:23:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 15215-04 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 18:23:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 24A3648344 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 18:23:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <02bb01c3ca74$e0dad240$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 18:23:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Haven't opened anything yet...but I think my Secret Santa on my quilting list sent me some sort of scissors. Wrapped in quilting fabric. (Not that I was *feeling* the fabric or anything...(whistles innocently) laurensa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margo Anderson" To: "Historical Costume" ; "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 6:03 PM Subject: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? > I've made a tradition of this for the last several years... And I'm posting > now since I figure some of you East Coast types who open your prezzies on > Christmas Eve may be ready to report. > > So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? > > > Merry Christmas, > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > > www.margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 24 21:07:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBP276A2002054 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 21:07:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBP26O4S008969; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:06:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBP27jqq005702; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:07:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice6.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice6.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBP27fqq005670 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:07:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from webmail.cornell.edu (hermes8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.35]) by postoffice6.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with SMTP id hBP26CYU019536 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 21:06:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from 68.210.96.87 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ms154) by webmail.cornell.edu with HTTP; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 21:06:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <50067.68.210.96.87.1072317969.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> In-Reply-To: <000c01c3ca6e$4350fbe0$7d2da5d1@pavilion> References: <000c01c3ca6e$4350fbe0$7d2da5d1@pavilion> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 21:06:09 -0500 (EST) From: "Marie Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Holiday notes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Not meaning to clutter the list but Happy Holidays all... and a Happy, Healthy New Year too. And on a related note - I've decided to go for the PhD... wish me luck ; > -- Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 24 22:40:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBP3eFA2002255 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 22:40:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBP3dZ4S013645; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 20:39:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBP3f4qq040856; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 20:41:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBP3f3qq040836 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 20:41:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AZMLT-0002UJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:39:31 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 20:38:51 -0700 Message-ID: <003601c3ca98$9d585f00$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com What a great idea! I got a nifty pop-up paper doll history of costume book from a fiber friend! Will report back on more tomorrow morning! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 00:16:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBP5GhA2002436 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 00:16:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBP5FB4S017542; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 22:15:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBP5Gcqq076541; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 22:16:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBP5GZqq076497 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 22:16:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0E4A425CE for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 00:23:39 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FEA7227.1060901@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 23:14:15 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? References: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Margo Anderson wrote: > > So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? Not east coast, but they seem to do the 'eve thing here... Two gifts of cash which will go with me to the upscale fabric store downtown where they are having %50-off the already half price 'everything in the store' sale on Friday morning... I'm going with a girlfriend who also sews. I don't know what we'll find but it should be fun anyway. Costume books... I know I am getting something off my wishlist but my husband says it's been 3 weeks and Amazon hasn't got it here yet. :( It may become a New Year's present. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 00:29:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBP5T0A2002449 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 00:29:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBP5SJ4S018044; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 22:28:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBP5Toqq081105; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 22:29:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBP5Tlqq081053 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 22:29:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from there (d14-69-189-68.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.68.189]) by pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hBP5SAn16882 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 23:28:10 -0600 Message-Id: <200312250528.hBP5SAn16882@pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michelle Plumb To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 00:31:05 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] References: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> <3FEA7227.1060901@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3FEA7227.1060901@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > Margo Anderson wrote: > So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? 50 Heirloom Buttons to Make, by Nancy Nehring. Michelle in Michgan, where we didn't get the white Christmas the weatherman promised. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 09:16:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPEG5A2029588 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:16:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPEFF4S011346; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 07:15:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPEGiqq072681; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 07:16:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf06.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf06.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPEGgqq072642 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 07:16:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from muirgheal@charter.net) Received: from dewshine (cpe-24-196-247-126.spa.sc.charter.com [24.196.247.126]) by mxsf06.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.10/8.12.8) with SMTP id hBPEEwK9099021 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:14:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from muirgheal@charter.net) Message-ID: <004101c3caf1$6869d040$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> From: "Manly Summerfield" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net><3FEA7227.1060901@reddawn.net> <200312250528.hBP5SAn16882@pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:14:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mine is only marginally fabric related. I got a Digital Camera!!! *shreeeek* My hubby has known I have really wanted one to chronicle my sewing projects and build a portfolio. I make stuff for people and give them away with out ever taking pictures. Well not any more!! Muirgheal Happy what ever Holiday you celebrate! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 09:40:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPEeXA2029618 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:40:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPEdx4S012447; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 07:39:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPEfYqq081196; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 07:41:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPEfVqr081178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 07:41:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBPEfSUZ009698 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:41:28 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBPEfSZ8009696 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:41:28 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:41:27 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> <3FEA7227.1060901@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3FEA7227.1060901@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312250941.27746.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Thursday 25 December 2003 12:14 am, Dawn wrote: > Margo Anderson wrote: > > So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? Whoa. Haven't got anything yet.... We'lll see whether I can contribute to this one later... :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 10:39:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPFdjA2029755 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 10:39:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPFd94S014980; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 08:39:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPFegqq002330; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 08:40:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPFeeqq002310 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 08:40:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06940299pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.19.18]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF2DC15DFD for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 07:39:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 10:45:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <200312250941.27746.cathy@thyrsus.com> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Well- marginally costume-related. I got a reproduction of the 1768-1771 original edition of the encyclopedia Brittanica. I'm sure there must be some clothing-related entries in there somewhere. I've only gotten as far as the first of the three volumes, so far. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 10:45:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPFjYA2029787 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 10:45:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPFil4S015149; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 08:44:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPFkOqq003988; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 08:46:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9401.mail.yahoo.com (web9401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBPFkMqq003977 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 08:46:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031225154445.96138.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 07:44:45 PST Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 07:44:45 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holiday notes To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <50067.68.210.96.87.1072317969.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mari --all the Best of Luck!! And hurrah for you for going for it! Albra Marie Stewart wrote: Not meaning to clutter the list but Happy Holidays all... and a Happy, Healthy New Year too. And on a related note - I've decided to go for the PhD... wish me luck ; > -- Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 11:01:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPG1SA2029890 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:01:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPG0n4S016185; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:00:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPG2Pqq009469; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:02:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9403.mail.yahoo.com (web9403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBPG2Mqq009453 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:02:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031225160045.54938.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.115.248.57] by web9403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 08:00:45 PST Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 08:00:45 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] So, What Did 'ya Get? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com WheeeeeeKKK!!! (Shrieks of glee) I got a new Husquerna Platinum 770 sewing machine from my husband--bless his heart!!!!! It's great--but so computerized I'm going to need classes just to figure out how to use it!! Also a couple of nifty books---Dress Accessories 1150-1450 from the Museum of London series, and Medieval Civilization 400-1500, by Jacques Le Goff--- Albra ( the computer challenged--approaching her new machine with great trepidation and awe) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 11:16:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPGGEA2029915 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:16:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGFc4S016795; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:15:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGHFqq014161; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:17:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.83.231] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGHCqq014150 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:17:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CDF548338 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:15:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 26398-10 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:15:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 83455482D6 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:15:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <04b101c3cb02$517c0040$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031225160045.54938.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What Did 'ya Get? Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:15:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" To: Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 11:00 AM Subject: [h-cost] So, What Did 'ya Get? > WheeeeeeKKK!!! (Shrieks of glee) I got a new Husquerna Platinum 770 sewing machine from my husband--bless his heart!!!!! It's great--but so computerized I'm going to need classes just to figure out how to use it!! Also a couple of nifty books---Dress Accessories 1150-1450 from the Museum of London series, and Medieval Civilization 400-1500, by Jacques Le Goff--- > Albra > ( the computer challenged--approaching her new machine with great trepidation and awe) > Wow! Lucky you!! I guessed right on my Secret Santa gift. It was indeed scissors--Pinking Shears! Yay! I've been wanting pinking shears for ages, it was perfect! Non costume related, my DH gave me Life of Brian and Time Bandits on DVD. I already had the Holy Grail, so some afternoon soon is going to be spent in a blissful Python daze. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 11:25:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPGPvA2029935 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:25:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGP94S017199; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:25:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGQjqq017385; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:26:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGQiqq017346 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:26:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.155.2a49deb1 (3890) for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:24:59 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <155.2a49deb1.2d1c695b@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:24:59 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/25/2003 9:40:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, cathy@thyrsus.com writes: > Margo Anderson wrote: > > So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? Eeeee! If you can hear the shriek of joy from somewhere in Westchester, it's probably me! Costuming and sewing related, I received a set of Elizabethan jewelry (girdle, earrings, necklace, ring, AND bodice jewelry!) courtesy Sapphire and Sage from my parents and my aunt and uncle, Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd and Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620 (those being the shriek-inducing gifts, at which point everyone in my family went "Oh dear, she's lost it!"), and (feel free to wince, but my aunt really did mean well!), Tudor Costume and Fashion by Herbert Norris, and Iris Brooke's English Costume from the Early Middle Ages Through the Sixteenth Century. Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 11:30:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPGUUA2029946 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:30:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGTi4S017430; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:29:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGVLqq018987; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:31:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGV9qq018896 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:31:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@infotrope.net) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8751236E5E for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:29:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AZYMd-00076K-00 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:29:31 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-Reply-To: <003601c3ca98$9d585f00$6501a8c0@SG01> References: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> <003601c3ca98$9d585f00$6501a8c0@SG01> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:29:31 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I didn't get anything costume-related, but I gave: * a suit of ruffs for a friend's Elizabethan * a pair of knitted socks (my first) * a copy of Kass McGann's Reconstructing History 1630s doublet pattern K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 11:49:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPGn1A2029994 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:49:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGmQ4S018288; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:48:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGmqqq025208; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:48:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGmoqq025153 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:48:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hBPGl7118099 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:47:07 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 08:54:01 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holiday notes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20031225154445.96138.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mari, Come on in, the water's fine! :D I just finished my first term towards a Ph.D. in (I love this phrase) "Cultural and Historic Aspects of the Near Environment" (read Apparel history) , with a minor in Anthropology. It's wonderful. I mean, I spend most days in the library looking up *stuff* and writing papers. They actually like it when you think. hehe It's darn hard work and I rarely get to bed before midnight and papers always are closer on the calendar then they appear. Good luck in your studies! Just imagine the joy from following your passion. :D *brag alert* I got straight A's. :D It's a first for me. lol Next term I take Fashion Theory, History of the Near Environment, and Anthropology of Art. I'm in hog heaven. *smiles* This summer, I go to Europe for a research project. It sure beats work. hehe Have a great Holiday, everyone. Althea Who is wearing her teddy bear footies given by her Pelican On Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 07:44 AM, KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > Mari --all the Best of Luck!! And hurrah for you for going for it! > Albra > > Marie Stewart wrote: > > Not meaning to clutter the list but > > Happy Holidays all... and a Happy, Healthy New Year too. > > And on a related note - I've decided to go for the PhD... > wish me luck ; > > > -- > Mari Stewart > Cornell University > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 11:53:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPGrRA2030011 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:53:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGqO4S018482; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:52:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGqpqq026843; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:52:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.83.231] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGqlqq026780 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:52:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52D4448361 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:51:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 27007-08 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:51:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C138148352 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:51:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <04dd01c3cb07$499d6fd0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <155.2a49deb1.2d1c695b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:51:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? > In a message dated 12/25/2003 9:40:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, > cathy@thyrsus.com writes: > > Margo Anderson wrote: > > > So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? > > Eeeee! If you can hear the shriek of joy from somewhere in Westchester, it's > probably me! > Costuming and sewing related, I received a set of Elizabethan jewelry > (girdle, earrings, necklace, ring, AND bodice jewelry!) courtesy Sapphire and Sage > from my parents and my aunt and uncle, Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd and > Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620 (those being the shriek-inducing gifts, at which > point everyone in my family went "Oh dear, she's lost it!"), and (feel free to > wince, but my aunt really did mean well!), Tudor Costume and Fashion by > Herbert Norris, and Iris Brooke's English Costume from the Early Middle Ages > Through the Sixteenth Century. > Geeze, what a haul! The Sapphire and Sage jewelry is beautiful stuff too. Can't wait to see pics! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 12:00:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPH0vA2030042 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 12:00:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGx94S018797; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:59:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGxaqq029612; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:59:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPGxYqq029578 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:59:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.a8.268414f9 (3890) for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:57:49 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:57:49 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/25/2003 11:52:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, goofy1@suscom.net writes: Geeze, what a haul! The Sapphire and Sage jewelry is beautiful stuff too. Can't wait to see pics! I'm a lucky girl ;) My family has also (for the most part) given up on guessing, so my mother says around late October, "Make a list of what you want, because that's what you're getting!" Less fun than all surprises, I suppose, but my mother is happier when she and I don't have to go around making returns, everyone gets what they want, and my elder aunt and uncle get lots of Italian food . When I finish my latest liz' (though all I have right now is the smock cut out..) I'll get someone to help me get everything on, and I'll take some pictures. Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 12:52:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPHqFA2030214 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 12:52:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPHgd4S021084; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 10:42:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPHiBqq046573; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 10:44:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPHi9qq046514 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 10:44:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.4b.38444a00 (15899) for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 12:42:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d17.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.133]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID92-3e1b3feb217b9c; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 12:42:19 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 12:42:19 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1528931D.186C8E7A.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I got my Queen Elizabeth's Wadrobe Unlocked! What a great hubby I have.....ok, ok....so I bought it for myself, and told him it was my present from him......but I'm still excited. "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 13:19:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPIJ4A2030257 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 13:19:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPIEv4S022967; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:14:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPIGYqq058515; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:16:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPIGVqq058489 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:16:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from www20.ureach.com (www20.ureach.com [172.16.2.48]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPIEq1r019549 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 13:14:52 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA31288; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 13:14:52 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 13:14:52 -0500 Message-Id: <200312251814.NAA31288@www20.ureach.com> Received: from [170.224.224.102] by www20.ureach.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:14:52 GMT To: "Margo Anderson" From: Teena Kessinger Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-vsuite-type: e Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I did pretty good this year both costume and non-costume related. :) For the costume stuff, I got several Period Patterns (Mens Tudor, Womens Early Tudor, Tudor headwear, German Puff and Slash), the Mantua Maker's Spanish Ropa pattern, a belt with period reproduction buckle and tip with belt mounts, a JoAnns gift card, another gift card to be used towards a new serger, and QEWU (though I haven't got that one "in hand" yet). My family knows what I like so well! Of course, the list I gave them probably helped. ;-) Teena ---- On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, Margo Anderson (margo@margospatterns.com) wrote: > I've made a tradition of this for the last several years... And I'm posting > now since I figure some of you East Coast types who open your prezzies on > Christmas Eve may be ready to report. > > So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? > > > Merry Christmas, > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > > www.margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 13:24:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPIOsA2030270 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 13:24:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPIN84S023340; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:23:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPIOkqq061509; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:24:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPIOiqq061445 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:24:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12665BEF06 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 19:23:00 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FEB2C6D.6090703@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 19:29:01 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? References: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I've got Historical Fashion in detail, The 17th and 18th centuries. My next costume will be a 18th century dress. I planned on making a very simple one but there are so many nice pictures in this book.... Beautiful fringes, cuffs, embroidery..... Greetings, Deredere Margo Anderson wrote: >I've made a tradition of this for the last several years... And I'm posting >now since I figure some of you East Coast types who open your prezzies on >Christmas Eve may be ready to report. > >So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? > > >Merry Christmas, > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" > >www.margospatterns.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 13:29:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPITcA2030306 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 13:29:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPISk4S023631; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:28:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPIUOqq063638; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:30:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from topcat.systemsfirm.net (pcp06574247pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.140.62.105]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPIUKqq063619 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:30:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 13:28:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: So, What did 'ya get? Thread-Index: AcPLFOIqfB9ENQD3St+xcWxyBhwILA== From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hBPIUKqq063619 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: So, What did 'ya get? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Got "Patternmaking for Fashion Design" (3rd edition!) Nearly 1 1/4" thick and what DOESN'T it have?? I never knew there were so many ways to re-arrange a bust dart or change an armseye (my two most difficult fitting problems)! SLICK! Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 14:09:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPJ9mA2030395 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 14:09:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPJ1h4S025315; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 12:01:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPJ3Kqq075494; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 12:03:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBPJ3Gqq075437 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 12:03:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oui+pgfDlk36rrq4ww+N9W8=">; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:00:36 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JH928AMQ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:00:36 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 10:45:08 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Message-ID: <20031225.110003.1680.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-11 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com A Fabric Depot gift certificate. Party on!!! Happy holidays! Arlys On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:41:27 -0500 Catherine Olanich Raymond writes: > On Thursday 25 December 2003 12:14 am, Dawn wrote: > > Margo Anderson wrote: > > > So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did > you get? ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 15:46:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPKknA2030943 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:46:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPKZv4S000296; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 13:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPKbWqq011357; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 13:37:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPKbUqr011282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 13:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from there (d14-69-189-68.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.68.189]) by pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id hBPKbuHr013601 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 14:37:57 -0600 Message-Id: <200312252037.hBPKbuHr013601@pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michelle Plumb To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:38:41 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] References: <20031225.110003.1680.3.Cley@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20031225.110003.1680.3.Cley@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I stand corrected from last night. There wasn't even a flake on the ground when I went to bed last night (perusing my new button book, of course). This morning my hubby and I woke up to two inches of snow on the ground, and it's still coming down. Talk about good timing! :-) Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 17:08:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPM8bA2031187 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:08:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPM104S004119; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPM2Zqq042829; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:02:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPM1uqq042532 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:02:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQH00DI214D5C@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 14:00:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 13:09:33 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031225130455.020a9fa0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <000c01c3ca6e$4350fbe0$7d2da5d1@pavilion> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi all, For Christmas this year, I got a sewing machine rolling bag, because I dropped my good machine after Costume College, and my husband knew I have more classes to travel to. And I got the book "All About Silk", which is a great book to get to understand what different silk fabrics are, and what types of silk fabrics would be good for what types of garment construction. It even includes silk samples to add into the book. I love this book! My stocking also had a new embroidery scissors, and a clover thread cutter for my faire travels. And my husband's parents gave us money for our present, so I am thinking of using that money for an expensive costume book... I just don't know which one would be best for my needs. I hope everyone had a good Christmas, or whatever holiday you enjoy. I also hope everyone has a good New Years, and 12th Night (which I will be missing this year). Kimiko At 03:03 PM 12/24/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I've made a tradition of this for the last several years... And I'm posting >now since I figure some of you East Coast types who open your prezzies on >Christmas Eve may be ready to report. > >So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? > > >Merry Christmas, > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" > >www.margospatterns.com Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 17:19:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBPMJrA2031223 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:19:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPMAJ4S004490; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:10:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPMBwqq046762; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:11:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.primushost.com (smtp3.primushost.com [209.58.220.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBPMBuqr046708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:11:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp3.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1AZdgH-0003Yp-Do; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:10:09 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 1AZdch-0007hW-00; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:06:27 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:06:27 -0500 (EST) From: Katy Bishop To: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Historical Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >From my best friend I got a wonderful 30" acid free box containing an ca. 1880 princess line dress of lavender wool challis (very fine, probably faded from a blue) and royal blue jacquard trim (the jacquard has an 1860 feel), tons of buttons down the front. Really cute and unexpected. Now I want to copy it! I also got, just in time, my splurge on ebay, a purple satin late 1830's dress. It's fabulous and fills a gap in my collection. It's all plum satin, mostly padded with cotton batting for extra body (and warmth I suppose). The front bodice is decorated with a lattice of satin and purple velvet, and there are bows down the front of the skirt. It has leg o' mutton sleeves and bows at the cuffs. I paid way too much for my budget but it is so pretty. Katy On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, Margo Anderson wrote: >I've made a tradition of this for the last several years... And I'm posting >now since I figure some of you East Coast types who open your prezzies on >Christmas Eve may be ready to report. > >So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? > > >Merry Christmas, > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" > >www.margospatterns.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 20:30:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ1UjA2031634 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:30:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ1Sk4S014917; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:28:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ1UNqq023509; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:30:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBQ1UMqq023503 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:30:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031226012839.94364.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.123] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:28:39 PST Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:28:39 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Katy- -the 1830's dress sounds wondeful! Will we get treated to pics of it at some point? Albra (drooling vicariously on everyone's Holiday 'loot') Katy Bishop wrote: >From my best friend I got a wonderful 30" acid free box containing an ca. 1880 princess line dress of lavender wool challis (very fine, probably faded from a blue) and royal blue jacquard trim (the jacquard has an 1860 feel), tons of buttons down the front. Really cute and unexpected. Now I want to copy it! I also got, just in time, my splurge on ebay, a purple satin late 1830's dress. It's fabulous and fills a gap in my collection. It's all plum satin, mostly padded with cotton batting for extra body (and warmth I suppose). The front bodice is decorated with a lattice of satin and purple velvet, and there are bows down the front of the skirt. It has leg o' mutton sleeves and bows at the cuffs. I paid way too much for my budget but it is so pretty. Katy On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, Margo Anderson wrote: >I've made a tradition of this for the last several years... And I'm posting >now since I figure some of you East Coast types who open your prezzies on >Christmas Eve may be ready to report. > >So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? > > >Merry Christmas, > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" > >www.margospatterns.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 20:38:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ1chA2031654 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:38:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ1c84S015398; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:38:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ1doqq026639; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:39:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice6.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice6.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ1dmqq026627 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:39:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from webmail.cornell.edu (hermes8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.35]) by postoffice6.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with SMTP id hBQ1c68s004689 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:38:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from 68.154.207.90 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ms154) by webmail.cornell.edu with HTTP; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:38:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <50071.68.154.207.90.1072402685.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> In-Reply-To: <200312250528.hBP5SAn16882@pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net><3FEA7227.1060901@reddawn.net> <200312250528.hBP5SAn16882@pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:38:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Marie Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: So, What'd ya get? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi all... sounds like there are some great gift givers out there! Knitting needles from my Mother, these are the ones handed down through her side of the family. Each woman has kept them and added to the collection until she could no longer knit - and then passed them to the next generation. Some financing for the fabric stash from Dad, and a request for a Xena costume from my sister-in-law. ; > -- Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 20:57:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ1vxA2031662 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:57:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ1vP4S016390; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:57:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ1x6qq034627; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:59:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ1x4qq034578 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:59:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LLWatts@aol.com) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.10c.2dd0d668 (3964) for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:57:10 -0500 (EST) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: <10c.2dd0d668.2d1cef75@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:57:09 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6024 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > I've made a tradition of this for the last several years... And I'm posting > now since I figure some of you East Coast types who open your prezzies on > Christmas Eve may be ready to report. > > So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? Not technically costume related, but my new DVD player should make things easier if I decide to do a movie reproduction costume -- neither of my VCRs is fancy enough to give a clear image when on "pause". Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 21:04:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ24YA2031672 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:04:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ23w4S016687; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 19:03:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ25eqq036878; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 19:05:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav46.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ25dqq036847 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 19:05:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:03:51 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav46.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 02:03:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <10c.2dd0d668.2d1cef75@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:01:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Dec 2003 02:03:51.0083 (UTC) FILETIME=[81BCC7B0:01C3CB54] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Heh- Leah, funny story, we bought one for Tarquin this year as his *big gift* (we had to seriously pare down on gifts this year) and last night at my grandfather's my step mom gave us a dvd player. So we now have two identical dvd players. We put on in our bedroom and Tar opened his this morning and it stays in the livingroom. Bice Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: December 25, 2003 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? > > I've made a tradition of this for the last several years... And I'm posting > > now since I figure some of you East Coast types who open your prezzies on > > Christmas Eve may be ready to report. > > > > So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? > > > Not technically costume related, but my new DVD player should make things > easier if I decide to do a movie reproduction costume -- neither of my VCRs is > fancy enough to give a clear image when on "pause". > > Leah > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 21:06:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ26YA2031675 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:06:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ25w4S016771; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 19:05:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ27fqq037506; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 19:07:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ27dqq037482 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 19:07:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBQ25tI0013308 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:05:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (user-1121e09.dsl.mindspring.com [66.32.184.9]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ25qcd013274 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:05:54 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <50067.68.210.96.87.1072317969.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> References: <000c01c3ca6e$4350fbe0$7d2da5d1@pavilion> <50067.68.210.96.87.1072317969.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:22:54 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holiday notes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 9:06 PM -0500 12/24/03, Marie Stewart wrote: >Not meaning to clutter the list but > >Happy Holidays all... and a Happy, Healthy New Year too. > >And on a related note - I've decided to go for the PhD... > wish me luck ; > Good luck! And know that there _is_ light at the end of the tunnel! Heather -- ***** Heather Rose (you may now call me Doctor) Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 22:58:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ3wDA2031857 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:58:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ3vZ4S022898; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:57:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ3w6qq077628; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:58:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mprdmxin.myway.com (nn1.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ3w4qq077592 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:58:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 69A673949; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:56:10 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Received: from [206.45.177.247] by mprdmailfe3.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:56:10 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = f27b4834869c75fc19928d716ce0d9cf From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Message-Id: <20031226035610.69A673949@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:56:10 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Florentine question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Greetings all,I want to make the dress in the attatchment, a beautiful green florentine dress with a stand-up "collar" , but I was wondering if anyone had an idea what the fabric would be, and what the dangling ties are. I've found other portraits with the same style of neck but the fabric is heavily quilted and without any kind of tie or hanging decoration. I've not very familiar with Italian style. Is this portrait an oddity?Thanks,Happy Festimas,Wendywww.hecate.ca/emma/http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lilgeekboy/detail?.dir=/Armour.&.dnm=1540s_florentine.jpg _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 23:04:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ44pA2031872 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 23:04:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ44G4S023307; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:04:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ44nqq080258; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:04:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav69.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ44mqq080205 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:04:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:02:54 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav69.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 04:02:53 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031226035610.69A673949@mprdmxin.myway.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Florentine question Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 23:01:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Dec 2003 04:02:54.0079 (UTC) FILETIME=[234B78F0:01C3CB65] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Not sure if you know but there's no attachment. Do you have a place on the web it can be found? B~ Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy" To: Sent: December 25, 2003 10:56 PM Subject: [h-cost] Florentine question > Greetings all,I want to make the dress in the attatchment, a beautiful green florentine dress with a stand-up "collar" , but I was wondering if anyone had an idea what the fabric would be, and what the dangling ties are. I've found other portraits with the same style of neck but the fabric is heavily quilted and without any kind of tie or hanging decoration. I've not very familiar with Italian style. Is this portrait an oddity?Thanks,Happy Festimas,Wendywww.hecate.ca/emma/http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lilgeekboy /detail?.dir=/Armour.&.dnm=1540s_florentine.jpg > > _______________________________________________ > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. > Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 23:26:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ4QmA2031916 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 23:26:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ4Oa4S024482; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:24:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ4P6qq088313; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:25:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ4P3qq088247 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:25:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B702425CE for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 23:31:59 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FEBB791.1090904@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:22:41 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Florentine question References: <20031226035610.69A673949@mprdmxin.myway.com> In-Reply-To: <20031226035610.69A673949@mprdmxin.myway.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com It looks like a heavily starched sheer or lace partlet to me, one that has been left open with the ties hanging off either side. I would guess the ties are silk ribbon or cord, and they appear to have pearls on the end. I could be imagining that, I have a rather poor monitor these days. Dawn Wendy wrote: > Greetings all,I want to make the dress in the attatchment, a beautiful green florentine dress with a stand-up "collar" , but I was wondering if anyone had an idea what the fabric would be, and what the dangling ties are. I've found other portraits with the same style of neck but the fabric is heavily quilted and without any kind of tie or hanging decoration. I've not very familiar with Italian style. Is this portrait an oddity?Thanks, Happy Festimas,Wendy www.hecate.ca/emma/http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lilgeekboy/detail?.dir=/Armour.&.dnm=1540s_florentine.jpg > > _______________________________________________ > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. > Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 23:39:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ4dQA2031950 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 23:39:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ4co4S025043; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:38:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ4dKqq093468; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:39:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ4dJqq093464 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:39:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBQ4bYI0007987 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:37:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (user-1121e09.dsl.mindspring.com [66.32.184.9]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ4bVcd007951 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:37:33 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:16:51 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 3:03 PM -0800 12/24/03, Margo Anderson wrote: >I've made a tradition of this for the last several years... And I'm posting >now since I figure some of you East Coast types who open your prezzies on >Christmas Eve may be ready to report. > >So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? Nothing really costume related. But the air resounded with shrieks of delight when I unwrapped a copy of "Harri Potter a Maen yr Athroniaidd" (i.e., HP vol. 1 in Welsh). Heather -- ***** Heather Rose (you may now call me Doctor) Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 23:54:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ4suA2031974 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 23:54:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ4sJ4S025672; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:54:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ4u2qq099502; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:56:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ4u0qq099491 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:56:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from sdn-ar-008neomahp285.dialsprint.net ([63.178.237.215] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AZjzL-0005vv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 23:54:15 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20031225224649.02d330f8@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:54:08 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200312251654.hBPGs8qr027384@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: What'd ya get? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Only a little costume related this year, for Pierre - Figures in Fabric - the Sculpture of Lisa Liechtenfels, and another Osprey military history. Both of us got things for our other passions, though, reading (both) and cooking (me). We both got B&N gift cards, and I got 3 of the Master and Commander book series and the first Horatio Hornblower book. He also got a book light. I got a popcorn popper, popcorn, a nylon whisk (for non-stick pans), and a new toaster/broiler oven. COOL!! Pierre and Sandy >So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? > >Merry Christmas, >Margo "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Dec 25 23:58:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ4wkA2031984 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 23:58:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ4uB4S025735; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:56:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ4vtqq000324; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:57:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ4vqqq000297 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:57:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AF6710604E4; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:56:07 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:56:07 -0600 Message-ID: <000f01c3cb6c$9315c5d0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hey- you any kin to those other Dr. Jones' (father and son)? -- {or is it Dr.s Jones, like Grands Prix?} smiles and congrats and happy holidays too! Betsy ***** Heather Rose (you may now call me Doctor) Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 00:16:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ5FxA2032026 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 00:15:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ5E94S026792; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:14:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ5Fqqq007048; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:15:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ5Fhqq006977 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:15:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip80.207-173-124.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.124.80]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CD9A6DBE0 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:13:57 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:14:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holiday notes Message-ID: <3FEB531F.4294.E462C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <20031225154445.96138.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > I got straight A's. :D It's a first for me. lol Congrats, Althea! Keep up the good work. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 00:18:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ5IeA2032034 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 00:18:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ5I64S027013; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:18:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ5Joqq008701; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:19:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ5Jnqq008695 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:19:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip80.207-173-124.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.124.80]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B39F86DC0A for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:18:03 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:18:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Message-ID: <3FEB5416.15510.120AF5@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> References: <000c01c3ca6e$4350fbe0$7d2da5d1@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you > get? I got gift certificates for Borders and Walden books. But my hubbie didn't get me anything. :( We had a bit of a talk about that one. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 02:23:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ7NRA2012487 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 02:23:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ7Mj4S002862; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 00:22:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ7OSqq058469; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 00:24:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ7ORqq058458 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 00:24:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (adsl-63-202-186-190.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.190]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA662F91D for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 23:26:05 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <48B23AE0-3774-11D8-B0C6-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 23:22:38 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Oh, please share pictures of this! It sounds wonderful. > I also got, just in time, my splurge on ebay, a purple satin late > 1830's > dress. It's fabulous and fills a gap in my collection. It's all plum > satin, mostly padded with cotton batting for extra body (and warmth I > suppose). The front bodice is decorated with a lattice of satin and > purple velvet, and there are bows down the front of the skirt. It has > leg o' mutton sleeves and bows at the cuffs. I paid way too much for > my > budget but it is so pretty. > > Katy > > On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, Margo Anderson wrote: > >> I've made a tradition of this for the last several years... And I'm >> posting >> now since I figure some of you East Coast types who open your >> prezzies on >> Christmas Eve may be ready to report. >> >> So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you >> get? >> >> >> Merry Christmas, >> >> Margo >> >> "One Tough Costumer" >> >> www.margospatterns.com >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 02:29:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ7T9A2016873 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 02:29:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ7SY4S003118; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 00:28:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ7UJqq060552; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 00:30:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ7UIqq060545 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 00:30:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-16.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.16]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ7RlwC011063 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 23:27:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031225231217.048a8dd0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 23:27:55 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> References: <000c01c3ca6e$4350fbe0$7d2da5d1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >I've made a tradition of this for the last several years... And I'm posting >now since I figure some of you East Coast types who open your prezzies on >Christmas Eve may be ready to report. > >So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? I got three dolls, and a book about celluloid dolls, one of which was in a box tied with several yards of usable satin ribbon. I also got two boxes of candy, guaranteed to make my costumes fit worse. But the best was from my mother; a crochet shawly collar, not as fine as Irish but pretty special nonetheless, from maybe c.1900. It doesn't have a stand-up neck, so it may be later, like 1912, or a little bit earlier. If anyone cares to help me date it better, I can send them a scan. ____ / \ / \ the collar; | __ | about 18", | | | | top to bottom | | | | | / \ | | / \ | |/ \| CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 03:16:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ8G5A2025671 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 03:16:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ8EE4S005089; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 01:14:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ8Fuqq078288; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 01:15:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ8Frqq078217 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 01:15:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB584670082; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 02:03:36 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB5426D0170; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 02:03:32 -0600 Message-ID: <00a101c3cb88$449f7ec0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <10c.2dd0d668.2d1cef75@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 03:14:20 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Not costume related... but I gave my husband and kids a treat Christmas night. I took them to see "Its a Wonderful Life" at an 1928 movie palace. How great to see the film on the large screen like it was intended to be viewed. You can see the inside of this grand movie palace at http://members.tripod.com/~g_cowardin/byrd/ OR http://cinematreasures.org/theater/334/ The theater's 75th anniversary was Christmas Eve. The manager told me that out of the 75 year history, it has only been closed 7 months for restoration work. She is a grand lady! BTW, the film premiered on Dec. 20, 1946. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 03:21:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQ8LrA2025677 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 03:21:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ8LI4S005435; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 01:21:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ8N4qq080981; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 01:23:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQ8N1qq080904 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 01:23:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD063CD0086; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 02:10:46 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD03C60190; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 02:10:43 -0600 Message-ID: <00b701c3cb89$453a1ba0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000c01c3ca6e$4350fbe0$7d2da5d1@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20031225231217.048a8dd0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 03:21:31 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Kayta, Send me a scan and I will check with two of our instructors. On the subject header of the email write "INCOMING Kayta's shawl." Congrads on your doll goodies!!!!! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 07:43:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQChcA2026560 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 07:43:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQCgr4S018233; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 05:42:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQCibqq078684; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 05:44:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQCiYqq078637 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 05:44:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.a0.1fe3ef1 (3988) for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 07:42:38 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 07:42:38 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I didn't think I would get anything sewing related, but I did. My mother-in-law sent me one of those cute wooden sewing boxes that open out to the sides, but this is a miniature version. It's just the thing to accompany my mini sewing machine if I decide I absolutely have to sew again when flying somewhere on vacation (as I did last Thanksgiving--sewing while overlooking the Florida beach was a treat, although the machine was a little hard to get used to). Today I start a new waistcoat for my husband to wear to a Twelfth Night Ball next Saturday. I would like to make pantaloons, too, but we'll see about that. Ann Wass P.S. Bought myself a copy of "Headwraps: A Global Journey," last Saturday because the author, Georgia Scott, was doing a demonstration and book signing. And my husband and I are FINALLY going to see "Master and Commander" tonight! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 07:46:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQCkaA2026565 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 07:46:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQCim4S018298; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 05:44:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQCkbqq079310; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 05:46:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQCkZqq079282 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 05:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.15b.2a94e712 (3988) for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 07:44:36 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <15b.2a94e712.2d1d8734@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 07:44:36 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What Did 'ya Get? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/25/2003 11:01:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: WheeeeeeKKK!!! (Shrieks of glee) I got a new Husquerna Platinum 770 sewing machine from my husband--bless his heart!!!!! It's great--but so computerized I'm going to need classes just to figure out how to use it!! Now THAT is a sewing-related gift!!!!! Enjoy--not a day goes by that I don't appreciate my Bernina. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 10:48:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQFmwA2027016 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:48:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQFiI4S027448; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 08:44:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQFk2qq052168; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 08:46:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQFk0qq052146 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 08:46:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from www23.ureach.com (www23.ureach.com [172.16.2.51]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQFiAAs015961 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:44:10 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www23.ureach.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA08658; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:44:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:44:10 -0500 Message-Id: <200312261544.KAA08658@www23.ureach.com> Received: from [66.119.34.39] by www23.ureach.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:44:10 GMT To: "Wendy" From: Teena Kessinger Subject: Re: [h-cost] Florentine question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-vsuite-type: e Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I don't know whether or not you do the yahoo groups, but there is one for Italian Renaissance. That photo is the one on our welcome page. I do a lot of Italian, but I haven't conquered that particular dress... yet. I would imagine there are others on that list who have. It is a gorgeous dress! Teena ---- On Thu, 25 Dec 2003, Wendy (emmajean@myway.com) wrote: > Greetings all,I want to make the dress in the attatchment, a beautiful green florentine dress with a > stand-up "collar" , but I was wondering if anyone had an idea what the fabric would be, and what the > dangling ties are. I've found other portraits with the same style of neck but the fabric is heavily > quilted and without any kind of tie or hanging decoration. I've not very familiar with Italian style. > Is this portrait an oddity?Thanks,Happy > Festimas,Wendywww.hecate.ca/emma/http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lilgeekboy/detail?.dir=/Armour.&.dnm=1540s_florentine.jpg > > _______________________________________________ > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. > Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 11:01:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQG1cA2027048 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 11:01:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQG0x4S029129; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:00:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQG2lqq060558; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:02:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mprdmxin.myway.com (nn7.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQG2kqq060484 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:02:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 7352F3967; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 11:00:47 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Grand theatre Received: from [207.161.59.180] by mprdmailfe1.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 11:00:47 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 82be8c6e934da574dff554efc0ec20a2 From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Message-Id: <20031226160047.7352F3967@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 11:00:47 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com How fortunate you are to live in a city that cares about it's history, and to see old movies on a screen larger than 20" must be wonderful (pun intended!)In Winnipeg, they just tore down the Eaton's building, a fully servicable 100 year+ building to built an ultra-modern arena. Also, the Walker Theatre, home of the Mock Parliament in 1912 that helped bring the vote to Canadian Women was recently re-done and re-named the Burton Cummings Theatre; a man who once said that "Winnipeg was a hole". Cheers,Wendy--- On Fri 12/26, Penny Ladnier < penny@costumegallery.com > wrote:From: Penny Ladnier [mailto: penny@costumegallery.com]To: h-costume@indra.comDate: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 03:14:20 -0500Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get?Not costume related... but I gave my husband and kids a treat Christmasnight. I took them to see "Its a Wonderful Life" at an 1928 movie palace.How great to see the film on the large screen like it was intended to beviewed. You can see the inside of th! is grand movie palace athttp://members.tripod.com/~g_cowardin/byrd/ ORhttp://cinematreasures.org/theater/334/ The theater's 75th anniversary wasChristmas Eve. The manager told me that out of the 75 year history, it hasonly been closed 7 months for restoration work. She is a grand lady! BTW,the film premiered on Dec. 20, 1946.Penny LadnierOwner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroomwww.costumegallery.comwww.costumeclassroom.com[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]_______________________________________________h-costume mailing listh-costume@mail.indra.comhttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 11:18:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQGIVA2027085 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 11:18:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQGGd4S000107; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:16:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQGIRqq067161; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:18:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com (outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBQGIOqq067087 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:18:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail20.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.162]) by smtpout04.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AAA982ZXTARKMHYS for (sender ); Fri, 26 Dec 2003 08:15:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpQX6KKgIbqs99dCEKZpD1x3UE5HR1rrvA==">; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 08:14:49 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail20.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JJCB5FZR; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 08:14:49 PST Received: from [67.73.169.110] by webmail20.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 16:14:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.73.169.110] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Original-From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 16:14:35 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Grand theatre X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: seamstrix@juno.com Message-Id: <20031226.081449.25056.1369864@webmail20.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:1:1109953743 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Well, it's not precisely costume related....yet.....but I got gift cards for Borders and Barnes & Noble which may very well turn into some some costuming research materials. And I did get a copy of the Elizabeth paperdoll book from Dover. I will have lots of fun photocopying the drawings and coloring them in various combinations just to try out different looks. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 11:50:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQGoWA2027148 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 11:50:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQGme4S002040; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:48:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQGoSqq082569; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:50:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQGoPqq082536 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBQGmYI0008706 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 08:48:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (user-1121e09.dsl.mindspring.com [66.32.184.9]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQGmVcd008650 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 08:48:33 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000f01c3cb6c$9315c5d0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> References: <000f01c3cb6c$9315c5d0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 08:18:26 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: RE: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 10:56 PM -0600 12/25/03, Betsy Marshall wrote: >Hey- you any kin to those other Dr. Jones' (father and son)? >-- {or is it Dr.s Jones, like Grands Prix?} I certainly _am_ related to several Doctors Jones, one father and two sons (my third brother and my Mom decided it was ok to stop with a Masters) -- but probably not the ones you're thinking about. >smiles and congrats and happy holidays too! Betsy Thanks (all), it's be a long and very scenic road. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose (you may now call me Doctor) Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 12:42:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQHgcA2027250 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 12:42:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQHfx4S006394; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQHhmqq012430; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:43:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mprdmxin.myway.com (nn7.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQHhXqq012230 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:43:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 33EE7396A; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 12:41:31 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Florentine question, Teena Received: from [142.161.158.167] by mprdmailfe1.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 12:41:31 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = b5bde0db7d1a141a11191f09daa301ad From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Message-Id: <20031226174131.33EE7396A@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 12:41:31 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thanks, could you give me the address? I tried to find it in the yahoo search but that's pretty much impossible.Cheers,Wendy--- On Fri 12/26, Teena Kessinger < bkessinger@ureach.com > wrote:From: Teena Kessinger [mailto: bkessinger@ureach.com]To: h-costume@indra.comDate: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:44:10 -0500Subject: Re: [h-cost] Florentine questionI don't know whether or not you do the yahoo groups, but thereis one for Italian Renaissance. That photo is the one on ourwelcome page. I do a lot of Italian, but I haven't conqueredthat particular dress... yet. I would imagine there are otherson that list who have. It is a gorgeous dress!Teena---- On Thu, 25 Dec 2003, Wendy (emmajean@myway.com) wrote:> Greetings all,I want to make the dress in the attatchment, abeautiful green florentine dress with a> stand-up "collar" , but I was wondering if anyone had an ideawhat the fabric would be, and what the> dangling ties are. I've found other portraits with the samestyle of nec! k but the fabric is heavily> quilted and without any kind of tie or hanging decoration.I've not very familiar with Italian style.> Is this portrait an oddity?Thanks,Happy>Festimas,Wendywww.hecate.ca/emma/http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lilgeekboy/detail?.dir=/Armour.&.dnm=1540s_florentine.jpg> > _______________________________________________> No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.> Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com> _______________________________________________> h-costume mailing list> h-costume@mail.indra.com> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume> > _______________________________________________h-costume mailing listh-costume@mail.indra.comhttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 15:33:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQKXxA2027848 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:33:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQKU84S017007; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 13:30:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQKVtqq093510; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 13:31:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav53.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQKVrqq093476 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 13:31:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 12:29:55 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav53.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:29:55 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:30:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Dec 2003 20:29:55.0667 (UTC) FILETIME=[061CAA30:01C3CBEF] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? Costume-related, but remotely, I got the old King and I movie. But sewing related, I got one of those great foldable cutting tables on wheels. The central section is about 18 inches wide and it has drawers underneath and there are two panels that can be folded down on either side, it's very long once opened. It's hip-height, so it's just the right height to pin, cut, etc. My mom was tired of seeing me pin and cut on the floor :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 16:28:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQLS9A2028034 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 16:28:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQLIa4S019809; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 14:18:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQLKQqq016575; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 14:20:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQLKOqq016533 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 14:20:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.12a.382ca86e (3924) for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 16:18:22 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <12a.382ca86e.2d1dff9e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 16:18:22 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Florentine question, Teena To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/26/2003 9:42:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, emmajean@myway.com writes: Thanks, could you give me the address? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 17:41:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBQMfdA2028280 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:41:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQMYj4S025275; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:34:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQMabqq053856; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:36:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice6.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice6.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBQMaYqq053828 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:36:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from webmail.cornell.edu (hermes8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.35]) by postoffice6.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with SMTP id hBQMYeM2007545 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:34:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from 68.222.166.171 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ms154) by webmail.cornell.edu with HTTP; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:34:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <50294.68.222.166.171.1072478077.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> In-Reply-To: <20031226035610.69A673949@mprdmxin.myway.com> References: <20031226035610.69A673949@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:34:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Florentine question From: "Marie Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hey there... you're looking at a fairly common dress line for the time and place. The collar, a partlet technichally, is a lawn (and being Italian might be cotton or linen). The partlet is whiteworked and looks like there is bobbin lace along the edge... punto in aria perhaps. Those long trailing ties are a feature of the partlet. As you can see they are matched along the neck opening. The ties can be made in several ways. A couple of easy ways are fingerloop braids, knitted cord, round braids, or bobbin lace tapes. Good luck... Bridgette -- Mari Stewart Cornell University > Greetings all,I want to make the dress in the attatchment, a beautiful > green florentine dress with a stand-up "collar" , but I was wondering if > anyone had an idea what the fabric would be, and what the dangling ties > are. I've found other portraits with the same style of neck but the > fabric is heavily quilted and without any kind of tie or hanging > decoration. I've not very familiar with Italian style. Is this portrait > an oddity?Thanks,Happy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 19:45:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR0jTA2028563 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:45:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR0ig4S004683; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:44:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR0kUqq014744; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:46:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com ([12.178.72.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR0kSqq014722 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:46:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ceu@equinox.shaysnet.com) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hBR0ofv4007625; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:50:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:50:39 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, Margo Anderson wrote: > I've made a tradition of this for the last several years... And I'm posting > now since I figure some of you East Coast types who open your prezzies on > Christmas Eve may be ready to report. > > So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? > > > Merry Christmas, > > Margo > Hiya, Margo! This year was a rather poorer year than has been in the past, but I think I'm on my way to a new hobby within the realm of costuming: bobbin lace! Got one of those beginner kits from Lacis and made a strip of cotton lace today (26th). Also got two books with patterns on Elizabethan embroidery, one on crewel work, and two more books: Authentic Victorian Dressmaking Techniques and Paint Your Own Illuminated Letters (Oh, okay, it's not costumy...btw, THANKS DREA!) Re the bobbin lace: Can someone recommend a good book of patterns? I like doing fine stuff and the pattern that came with the kit is, er, well, not fine enough for me. Thanks! Kate! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 19:46:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR0k7A2028566 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:46:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR0jZ4S004746; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:45:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR0lUqq015100; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:47:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com ([12.178.72.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR0l4qq014939 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:47:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ceu@equinox.shaysnet.com) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hBR0pHOv007655; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:51:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:51:15 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Ohoh!! And I got the Little Corset Book! Yay! (Thanks Drea!!) Kate! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 20:16:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR1G7A2028671 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:16:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR1FU4S006768; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:15:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR1HNqq028877; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:17:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR1HMqq028821 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:17:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1CA425CE for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:24:11 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FECDCED.1000601@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:14:21 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? References: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Yay! 'Historical Fashion in Detail' and the four historic dyes books by John Edmonds including the one on imperial purple. I don't know where to start! Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 20:57:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR1vFA2028781 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:57:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR1uH4S009119; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:56:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR1w9qq046474; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:58:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR1w5qq046450 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:58:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-16.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.16]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR1tRw8011132 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:55:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031226175314.057f3200@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:53:51 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > Re the bobbin lace: Can someone recommend a good book of patterns? I >like doing fine stuff and the pattern that came with the kit is, er, >well, not fine enough for me. Check Lacis's website, or call them if it's not too far. I'd bet money they have something. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 22:32:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR3WNA2029008 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:32:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR3NM4S013285; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:23:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR3PGqq081728; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:25:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.k12.hi.us (honu.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR3PEqq081711 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:25:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from makani (makani.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.195]) by smtp.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE093506D8 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:20:10 -1000 (HST) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:22:03 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-Reply-To: <3FECDCED.1000601@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, Dawn wrote: > the four historic dyes books by John Edmonds including the one on > imperial purple. What books are these? Could you please share the titles? annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 22:41:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR3ftA2029026 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:41:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR3e84S014320; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:40:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR3g3qq088830; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:42:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR3g2qq088786 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:42:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5B49425CE for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:48:50 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FECFED5.5000201@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:39:01 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com annora wrote: > On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, Dawn wrote: > > >>the four historic dyes books by John Edmonds including the one on >>imperial purple. > > > What books are these? Could you please share the titles? > They are: History of Woad and the Medieval Woad Vat (Historic Dyes S.) ~John Hamilton-Edmonds History and Practice of Eighteenth Century Dyeing (Historic Dyes S.) ~John Hamilton-Edmonds Transition from Natural to Synthetic Dyes, The (Historic Dyes S.) ~Alan Dronsfield, John Hamilton-Edmonds Tyrian or Imperial Purple Dye: The Mystery of Imperial Purple Dye (Historic Dyes S.) ~John Edmonds And you can get them at: https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/026-2903011-2076438 Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 23:14:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR4ErA2029084 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:14:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR4Cj4S015870; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:12:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR4EYqq001605; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:14:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR4EVqr001586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:14:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBR4CbKY003600 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:12:38 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBR4Cbu9003598 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:12:37 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: So, What did 'ya get? Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:12:37 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312262312.37524.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com A book about how to do inkle weaving and an IOU for an inkle loom. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Dec 26 23:14:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR4EsA2029087 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:14:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR4Dq4S016009; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:13:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR4Fmqq002125; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:15:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR4Fiqr002075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:15:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBR4DoKY003615 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:13:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBR4Do5o003613 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:13:50 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:13:50 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> <3FEB2C6D.6090703@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <3FEB2C6D.6090703@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312262313.50483.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Thursday 25 December 2003 01:29 pm, Deredere Galbraith wrote: > I've got Historical Fashion in detail, The 17th and 18th centuries. > My next costume will be a 18th century dress. I planned on making a very > simple one but there are so many nice pictures in this book.... > Beautiful fringes, cuffs, embroidery..... A truly marvelous book. I have it, and have enjoyed it thoroughly even though the 17th/18thc are not my period. Congratulations! -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 00:13:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR5DTA2029154 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 00:13:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR5AP4S018752; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:10:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR5CJqq023722; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:12:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR5CGqq023694 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:12:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21736 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 00:37:31 -0600 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 00:37:31 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-Reply-To: <3FECFED5.5000201@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, Dawn wrote: > History of Woad and the Medieval Woad Vat (Historic Dyes S.) > ~John Hamilton-Edmonds > > History and Practice of Eighteenth Century Dyeing (Historic Dyes S.) > ~John Hamilton-Edmonds > > Transition from Natural to Synthetic Dyes, The (Historic Dyes S.) > ~Alan Dronsfield, John Hamilton-Edmonds > > Tyrian or Imperial Purple Dye: The Mystery of Imperial Purple Dye > (Historic Dyes S.) > ~John Edmonds > > And you can get them at: > https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/026-2903011-2076438 Or go directly to the source: John Edmonds 89 Chessfield Park Little Chalfont, Buckinghamshire, HP6 6RX England E-mail edmondsxxx@yahoo.co.uk He had a webpage last time I looked, but it seems to be down right now. I suppose that might mean he no longer sells directly, but I can't guess either way. David Brown Co. has the booklets too, but the prices are probably lower if you go to the author. David Brown is asking $7 to $13 US per booklet (and they really are *booklets*, but packed with information). I paid, I think, $4 at for the woad book at K'zoo, maybe less with conference discount. I feel certain I've recommended his books here before, but I can't lay my hands on the post... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 00:39:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR5dHA2029189 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 00:39:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR5bm4S020156; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:37:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR5diqq035417; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:39:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (dsl017-045-035.spk4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.45.35] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR5dgqq035398 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:39:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (adsl-63-202-186-190.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.190]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30BC2F92B for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:41:06 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:37:43 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com For the first time in .. umpteen .. years, I didn't get a single sewing or costuming gift item. I did, however, get a Pavoni espresso maker, and I think that kind of counts, doesn't it? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 01:17:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR6HSA2029258 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:17:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6FN4S022044; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:15:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6HIqq050680; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:17:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6HHqq050644 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:17:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-46-34.client.comcast.net[24.1.46.34]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2003122706151401600rkd10e>; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 06:15:14 +0000 Message-ID: <4b8801c3cc41$0391c050$222e0118@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 00:15:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com 257 pieces of spam for not checking my email for 4 whole days. :( (recovering from surgery ...) I did not realize that I was deleting that much stuff from my "other" email addresses that are for other activities. Sigh. But I did get an mp3 player from hubby, a glass chess/checkers set, a chinese ink set up addition for my calligraphy box, very nifty storage boxes for my jewelry, and a beautiful 500 piece puzzle from my 2 year old that is a picture of victorian sewing notions. I have to say that last one is my favorite. :) He knows what mommy loves most! (After him, his siblings, Daddy, and kitty of course *wink*) Chiara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 01:50:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR6oBA2029303 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:50:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6fR4S023287; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:41:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6hOqq060469; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:43:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6hLqq060425 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:43:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A716DCC0086; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 00:30:46 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7122FE0206; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 00:30:42 -0600 Message-ID: <032701c3cc44$6bfea9c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:41:13 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I collect little dressmaker dummy dolls that come dressed in costumes. Katie gave me three this year, two like elves and one as Santa. I also got three crystal angels for my angel collection. My husband and younger sons gift is to purchase a wallpaper border and paint to re-do my office next weekend. So how many of you had to protect your sewing scissors with your life from others wanting to use them on wrapping paper? LOL! I gave a death threat to every person in my house if they used them. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 01:50:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR6oDA2029306 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:50:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6ia4S023406; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:44:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6kXqq061664; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:46:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6kWqq061627 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:46:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7D5DD80086; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 00:33:57 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7D2CF017E; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 00:33:54 -0600 Message-ID: <033201c3cc44$ddec5000$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4b8801c3cc41$0391c050$222e0118@ches> Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:44:24 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I forgot... I did get the Pirates of the Caribbean DVD from another son. The bonus material on the DVD is wonderful. Not much on costumes but a lot on makeup. I also enjoyed the digital enhancements for the skeleton pirates. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 02:02:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR72UA2030716 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 02:02:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6r94S023755; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6srqq064382; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:55:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6s5qq064098 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:54:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.43.26277307 (16112) for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:51:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d26.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.167]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID124-3ef03fed2c0ebd; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:51:58 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:51:58 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1D19DC69.4C9C989F.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/27/2003 1:41:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: > So how many of you had to protect your sewing scissors with your life from > others wanting to use them on wrapping paper? LOL! I gave > a death threat > to every person in my house if they used them. I had to finally designate (read that as sacrifice) one of my pairs of sewing shears to cutting paper (caught hubby using them, but since he was wrapping my QEWU, I couldn't yell too much). Thank goodness I've got lots of backups, and I hid every single other pair! Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 02:02:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR72qA2031034 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 02:02:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6rL4S023788; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:53:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6tJqq064640; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:55:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR6sAqq064133 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:54:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.1e6.1644601e (16112) for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:52:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d20.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.161]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID124-3ef03fed2c13ce; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:52:03 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:52:03 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4A6A1C79.0F8CB2A6.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/27/2003 1:41:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: > So how many of you had to protect your sewing scissors with your life from > others wanting to use them on wrapping paper? LOL! I gave > a death threat > to every person in my house if they used them. I had to finally designate (read that as sacrifice) one of my pairs of sewing shears to cutting paper (caught hubby using them, but since he was wrapping my QEWU, I couldn't yell too much). Thank goodness I've got lots of backups, and I hid every single other pair! Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 03:51:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBR8pkA2022776 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 03:51:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR8nu4S027927; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:49:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR8plqq006101; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:51:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR8pjqq006086 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:51:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQJ009DWPUW9B@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 00:49:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 00:47:19 -0800 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031227003549.00b0b250@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hBR8pjqq006086 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] more ebay book finds X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Here are a number of eBay books someone on this list might find interesting. Apparantly a lot got listed today, because sales listings were free. So, if you have some Xmas money to spend... 1977 Historic Costume Pattern Drafting Arnold http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3263112723 "Patterns of Fashion 2 - Englishwomen's Dresses & Their Construction, 1860-1940", 1977 U.S. edition, 88 pages. I have it, and it is a wonderful book. For those into Chinese garments. 5000 Years of Chinese Costumes http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3575981182&category=29331 And one that just seemed interesting. Eevi Astel. Eesti vööd (Estonian girdles, AKA sashes & ribbons) . Estonia 1998 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3575880405&category=29331 For a true collector HISTORIC COSTUMES ZUR GESCHICHTE DER KOSTUME http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3575878840&category=31371 OTTOMAN TURKISH COSTUME & GARMENTS "2 VOLUME" 508 ENGRAVINGS on TURKEY LEVANT COSTUMES http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3575836932&category=29321 TR CANAKKALE DEVELOPMENT FOLKLORE COSTUME http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3575857886&category=26475 Recurring Cycles of Fashion, 1760 - 1937 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2879140385&category=48865 20,000 YEARS OF FASHION Boucher Costume http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3575773248&category=378 I think that's all for tonight. Enjoy all. Kimiko (who is still looking for the right costume book to add to my growing collection). Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 05:08:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRA8MA2023357 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 05:08:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR9xV4S000528; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 02:59:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRA1Sqq029941; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 03:01:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRA1Rqq029931 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 03:01:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-16.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.32.16]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBR9wjw8029500 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:58:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:45:19 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-Reply-To: <032701c3cc44$6bfea9c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >So how many of you had to protect your sewing scissors with your life from >others wanting to use them on wrapping paper? LOL! I gave a death threat >to every person in my house if they used them. I habitually hide my best scissors, and leave the general purpose ones out, so there was no problem here. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 06:54:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRBsCA2023586 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 06:54:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRBjG4S005591; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 04:45:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRBlEqq068209; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 04:47:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRBlCqq068175 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 04:47:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.9f.4207d9fa (4320) for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 06:45:00 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <9f.4207d9fa.2d1ecabc@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 06:45:00 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/26/2003 10:41:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: Transition from Natural to Synthetic Dyes, The (Historic Dyes S.) ~Alan Dronsfield, John Hamilton-Edmonds Thanks very much for this information. I had not heard of these books. I'm particularly interested since this was the subject of my doctoral dissertation back in 1992. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 08:36:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRDacA2023746 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:36:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRDZi4S010677; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 06:35:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRDb4qq007451; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 06:37:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRDb1qq007424 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 06:37:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from www22.ureach.com (www22.ureach.com [172.16.2.50]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRDYvAs026299 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:34:59 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www22.ureach.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA14554; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:34:57 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:34:57 -0500 Message-Id: <200312271334.IAA14554@www22.ureach.com> Received: from [66.119.34.39] by www22.ureach.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:34:57 GMT To: "Wendy" From: Teena Kessinger Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Florentine question, Teena Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-vsuite-type: e Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sure! Here it is! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming/ ---- On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, Wendy (emmajean@myway.com) wrote: > Thanks, could you give me the address? I tried to find it in the yahoo search but that's pretty much > impossible.Cheers,Wendy--- On Fri 12/26, Teena Kessinger < bkessinger@ureach.com > wrote:From: > Teena Kessinger [mailto: bkessinger@ureach.com]To: h-costume@indra.comDate: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:44:10 > -0500Subject: Re: [h-cost] Florentine questionI don't know whether or not you do the yahoo groups, > but thereis one for Italian Renaissance. That photo is the one on ourwelcome page. I do a lot of > Italian, but I haven't conqueredthat particular dress... yet. I would imagine there are otherson that > list who have. It is a gorgeous dress!Teena---- On Thu, 25 Dec 2003, Wendy (emmajean@myway.com) > wrote:> Greetings all,I want to make the dress in the attatchment, abeautiful green florentine > dress with a> stand-up "collar" , but I was wondering if anyone had an ideawhat the fabric would > be, and what the> dangling ties are. I've found other portraits with the samestyle of nec! > k but the fabric is heavily> quilted and without any kind of tie or hanging decoration.I've not > very familiar with Italian style.> Is this portrait an > oddity?Thanks,Happy>Festimas,Wendywww.hecate.ca/emma/http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lilgeekboy/detail?.dir=/Armour.&.dnm=1540s_florentine.jpg> > > _______________________________________________> No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.> > Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com> _______________________________________________> > h-costume mailing list> h-costume@mail.indra.com> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume> > > _______________________________________________h-costume mailing > listh-costume@mail.indra.comhttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. > Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 08:55:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRDtaA2023773 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:55:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRDrk4S011489; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 06:53:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRDtjqq013918; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 06:55:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRDthqq013907 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 06:55:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from www21.ureach.com (www21.ureach.com [172.16.2.49]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRDrf1r011141 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:53:41 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www21.ureach.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA04903; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:53:41 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:53:41 -0500 Message-Id: <200312271353.IAA04903@www21.ureach.com> Received: from [66.119.33.170] by www21.ureach.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:53:41 GMT To: "Penny Ladnier" From: Teena Kessinger Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-vsuite-type: e Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com We had four homes represented at our family's Christmas celebration. Three of them received Pirates! ---- On Sat, 27 Dec 2003, Penny Ladnier (penny@costumegallery.com) wrote: > I forgot... I did get the Pirates of the Caribbean DVD from another son. > The bonus material on the DVD is wonderful. Not much on costumes but a lot > on makeup. I also enjoyed the digital enhancements for the skeleton > pirates. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 09:12:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRECeA2024748 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 09:12:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRE9Y4S012271; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:09:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBREBWqq019263; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:11:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBREBVqq019254 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:11:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFEF1B502D for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:07:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 28611-02 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:07:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B5E621B5112 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:07:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01f601c3cc83$09ec77a0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200312271353.IAA04903@www21.ureach.com> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 09:09:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teena Kessinger" To: "Penny Ladnier" Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 8:53 AM Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? > We had four homes represented at our family's Christmas > celebration. Three of them received Pirates! I wanted Pirates on DVD, but my mil bought the video for my 14 y.o. son. So I will get my DVD later! It was a Pirate year at my house, as the kids got lots of Pirate-Viking themed toys this year Dianne > > > > ---- On Sat, 27 Dec 2003, Penny Ladnier > (penny@costumegallery.com) wrote: > > > I forgot... I did get the Pirates of the Caribbean DVD from > another son. > > The bonus material on the DVD is wonderful. Not much on > costumes but a lot > > on makeup. I also enjoyed the digital enhancements for the > skeleton > > pirates. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 09:43:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBREh8A2024826 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 09:43:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBREdX4S013803; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:39:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBREfXqq030146; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:41:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBREfVqq030070 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:41:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ACAF425CE for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 09:48:16 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FED9965.3090508@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:38:29 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Robin Netherton wrote: >> >>And you can get them at: >>https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/026-2903011-2076438 > > > Or go directly to the source: > > John Edmonds > 89 Chessfield Park > Little Chalfont, Buckinghamshire, HP6 6RX > England > > E-mail edmondsxxx@yahoo.co.uk > > He had a webpage last time I looked, but it seems to be down right now. I > suppose that might mean he no longer sells directly, but I can't guess > either way. The last time I checked, back in early November the site was up but he referred all sales to Amazon. I suppose he might send them if you wrote to him, but I figured it was easier for a lot of US folks to use the online service that takes credit cards. :) > I feel certain I've recommended his books here before, but I can't lay my > hands on the post... Yes, I first heard about them here this summer when his Imperial Purple booklet made the news. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 09:54:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBREs0A2024860 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 09:54:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBREio4S014250; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:44:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBREkqqq032172; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:46:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBREkoqq032095 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:46:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C51B8425CE for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 09:53:34 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FED9AA4.4090407@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:43:48 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? References: <032701c3cc44$6bfea9c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <032701c3cc44$6bfea9c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Penny Ladnier wrote: > So how many of you had to protect your sewing scissors with your life from > others wanting to use them on wrapping paper? LOL! I gave a death threat > to every person in my house if they used them. My husband is pretty well trained. He understands that my sewing scissors are my tools, and how to treat them properly. He dabbles in the textile crafts himself and has his own fabric scissors. My MIL got us one of those under-the-bed giftwrap storage boxes a few years back and I loaded it with paper, ribbon, tape, and paper scissors. So it's all there and nobody has to raid the sewing room. I also encourage the use of gift bags and re-useable boxes because they are so much easier than wrapping. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 10:09:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRF9DA2024890 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:09:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRF684S015383; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRF89qq040931; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:08:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRF87qq040915 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:08:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-44-248.jps.net ([209.165.44.248] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AaG0y-00071F-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:06:04 -0800 Message-ID: <00a001c3cc8c$071043a0$f82ca5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:13:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Heather Meadows wrote: > I did, however, get a Pavoni espresso maker, and I think that kind of > counts, doesn't it? Oh that most definetly counts especially useful for those late night sewing sessions. I didn't get anything sewing related from my family at all, but they don't really understand what I do or the things I think about. What I thought might be a zipped up set of tapes on spirituality/philosophy turned out to be a body lotion set from grace/philosophy instead!!! Oh well, I did receive a couple of very nice handbags though thanks to a wish list :) Not a Christmas present but I am about to receive my parents old dining room table, about four feet wide and twelve feet long, plus to leaves to extend the table to eighteen feet! Perfect for sewing/cutting/screenprinting, but I think it will end up in my bedroom and I'll have to sleep under it at the moment!!! Oh well, can't let this offer pass me by. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 10:16:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRFGZA2024925 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:16:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRFFu4S015928; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:15:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRFHwqq045007; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:17:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRFHuqq044986 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:17:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.37] (pool180-238.patriot.net [209.249.180.238]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hBRFFolb023295 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:15:52 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:15:26 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] scissors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com My mother's trick for this was to have a pair of scissors in the junk drawer of the kitchen. They were always more convenient to get to than digging through the sewing box. Because of that, I don't remember many problems with using the wrong scissors. Scissors are fairly cheap in the stationery aisle, and once I got a set of 3 for about $5 at Ikea. It's a good insurance policy all through the year, because there are always things to cut besides wrapping paper! -Carol >>So how many of you had to protect your sewing scissors with your >>life from others wanting to use them on wrapping paper? LOL! I >>gave a death threat to every person in my house if they used them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 11:02:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRG2EA2025097 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:02:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRFub4S017836; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:56:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRFwbqq059757; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:58:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRFwYqq059723 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:58:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24520 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:23:48 -0600 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:23:48 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-Reply-To: <3FED9965.3090508@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Sat, 27 Dec 2003, Dawn wrote: > The last time I checked, back in early November the site was up but he > referred all sales to Amazon. Thanks. That's more recently than I've looked at it. > > I feel certain I've recommended his books here before, but I can't lay my > > hands on the post... > > Yes, I first heard about them here this summer when his Imperial Purple > booklet made the news. Yes! That's the thread I'm remembering. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 11:23:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRGNAA2025121 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:23:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRGEm4S019184; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 09:14:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRGGoqq066684; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 09:16:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBRGGmqq066674 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 09:16:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031227161445.98358.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.123] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:14:45 PST Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:14:45 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I had to learn to hide my best scissors as well, since my husband never seems to remember that some scissors are NEVER to used for cutting paper. His reasoning-- the time I caught him brandishing my ginghers toward a roll of holiday paper--was that I 'would'nt notice , just once'.But , then, he built me a sewing studio--so all the 'good scissors ' are now out there--while the kitchen 'junk drawar ' has 2 pairs of 'utility scissors'. Problem solved:) And marriage saved:) Albra Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >So how many of you had to protect your sewing scissors with your life from >others wanting to use them on wrapping paper? LOL! I gave a death threat >to every person in my house if they used them. I habitually hide my best scissors, and leave the general purpose ones out, so there was no problem here. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 12:17:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRHHlA2025251 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:17:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRHEY4S022787; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:14:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRHGRqq091271; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:16:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRHGJqq091216 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:16:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip142.209-63-24.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [209.63.24.142]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F4A46A8C5 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 09:14:14 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 09:14:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Message-ID: <3FED4D71.14508.7C8140B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <032701c3cc44$6bfea9c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > So how many of you had to protect your sewing scissors with your life > from others wanting to use them on wrapping paper? LOL! I gave a > death threat to every person in my house if they used them. I put all my old Fiskers and that ilk where they can be easily found. My Ginghers (bright shiny things that they are) stay in my sewing room (except when I need to use the living room floor for cutting out things with trains or other really long things). For the protection against wrapping paper, I keep one old pair of Fiskers with the paper, tape and ribbons so that there is less likelihood anyone would even think of going for my good pair. Fortunately, my husband does understand that it can ruin scissors to use them on materials other than the ones for which they are intended. (He has leather scissors which are just for leather.) But it helps that he is also a blacksmith and knifemaker. ;) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 12:38:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRHc3A2025311 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:38:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRHau4S024038; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:36:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRHcvqq000454; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:38:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRHcuqq000399 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:38:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-46-34.client.comcast.net[24.1.46.34]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20031227173647014000ojtke>; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:36:47 +0000 Message-ID: <005c01c3cca0$265898c0$222e0118@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FED4D71.14508.7C8140B@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:37:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com All sewing scissors live in the studio. All other scissors live in the kitchen. :) Even the 2 year old knows the rule about the scissors, and he knows that he is not supposed to touch them much less go into the studio without mommy! Chiara ----- Original Message ----- : : > So how many of you had to protect your sewing scissors with your life : > from others wanting to use them on wrapping paper? LOL! I gave a : > death threat to every person in my house if they used them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 13:50:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRIoXA2025503 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:50:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRInl4S028437; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:49:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRIpnqq029635; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:51:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRIplqq029576 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:51:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.1e7.1663b1c0 (16087) for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:49:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d24.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.165]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID104-3ed73fedd43c175; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:49:32 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:49:32 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] more ebay book finds MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5FFE5434.04A7FC0E.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/27/2003 3:47:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: > Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery Kimiko: That doesn't happen to be the Isle of Mann based in Fresno, CA, now does it? Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 13:50:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRIosA2025508 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:50:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRIoJ4S028498; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:50:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRIqNqq029837; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:52:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRIpoqq029613 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:51:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.d1.2125a29 (15862) for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:49:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d26.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.167]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID61-3df63fedd44080; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:49:36 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:49:37 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] more ebay book finds MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0D4E9444.47981615.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/27/2003 3:47:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: > Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery Kimiko: That doesn't happen to be the Isle of Mann based in Fresno, CA, now does it? Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 14:18:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRJI8A2025585 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 14:18:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRJHY4S000134; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:17:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRJJbqq040074; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:19:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRJJaqq040036 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:19:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.41.38631a62 (15863) for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 14:17:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m02.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.130]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID62-3df73feddac2153; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 14:17:22 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 14:17:23 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6E285CF1.3419F5BE.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/27/2003 11:14:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: > I 'would'nt notice , just once'.But , then, he built me a sewing studio--so all the 'good scissors ' are now out there--while the kitchen 'junk drawar ' has 2 pairs of 'utility > scissors'. I finally made my point when I came in from the garage with his favorite screw-driver, a box of nails, and a new family portrait, and started pounding a nail with the handle of the screwdriver. With my DH, it's all about VISUAL LEARNING. Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 15:44:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRKiWA2025802 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:44:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRKhv4S005131; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:43:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRKjrqq074576; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:45:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9401.mail.yahoo.com (web9401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBRKjpqq074552 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:45:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031227204346.73313.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.123] by web9401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:43:46 PST Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:43:46 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6E285CF1.3419F5BE.3739C57F@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com mmmmmm--gee, Laura, what a very sensible way to 'drive home' the point(evil grin).My husband is VERY visual about learning as well--if he ever makes his old mistake again--I'll be sure and remember that technique:) Albra MysticsLady9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/27/2003 11:14:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: > I 'would'nt notice , just once'.But , then, he built me a sewing studio--so all the 'good scissors ' are now out there--while the kitchen 'junk drawar ' has 2 pairs of 'utility > scissors'. I finally made my point when I came in from the garage with his favorite screw-driver, a box of nails, and a new family portrait, and started pounding a nail with the handle of the screwdriver. With my DH, it's all about VISUAL LEARNING. Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 16:00:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRL02A2025825 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:00:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRKxS4S006040; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:59:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRL1Xqq080469; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 14:01:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRL1Vqq080460 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 14:01:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQK005NANN0ID@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:59:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:56:54 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] more ebay book finds In-reply-to: <0D4E9444.47981615.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031227125539.0219fbf0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 01:49 PM 12/27/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > >Kimiko: > >That doesn't happen to be the Isle of Mann based in Fresno, CA, now does it? > >Laura >"Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte Hi Laura, Yes, it is the same group, although technically they are based in Tulare where Pat and Author live, just a bit south of me here in Fresno. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 17:58:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRMwYA2026254 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:58:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRMvA4S012647; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:57:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRMxCqq024213; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:59:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.fidnet.com (four.fidnet.com [216.229.64.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBRMx9qq024166 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:59:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lsharp@fidnet.com) Received: (qmail 2513 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2003 22:56:57 -0000 Received: from 64-251-143-68-dialup-mo.fidnet.com (HELO oemcomputer) (64.251.143.68) by mail.fidnet.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2003 22:56:57 -0000 Message-ID: <002d01c3ccc4$26aaf420$448ffb40@oemcomputer> From: "Lori Sharpsteen" To: Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:55:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: more ebay books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Don't know if you're interested in any of these, but I listed some of my costuming books for sale this morning... The Tailor's Pattern Book (Alcega) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3576029612&category=29331 &rd=1 The Costume Technician's Handbook http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3576053477&category=29331 &rd=1 The Art of Dress http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3576302557&category=29331 &rd=1 20,000 Years of Fashion http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3576303521&category=29331 &rd=1 Historical Encyclopedia of Costumes http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3576304681&category=29331 &rd=1 I'll probably have a few more in a couple of days. Lori S battlefieldsandballrooms _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 18:05:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRN5ZA2026286 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:05:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRN4t4S013002; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:04:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRN71qq027256; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:07:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRN70qq027227 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:07:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQK00A4PTG3ZO@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:04:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:02:24 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: more ebay books In-reply-to: <002d01c3ccc4$26aaf420$448ffb40@oemcomputer> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031227150121.02152750@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 03:55 PM 12/27/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Don't know if you're interested in any of these, but I listed some of my >costuming books for sale this morning... Hello Lori, Oh, my goodness yes. Thanks for the post, and I will keep an eye out for whatever else you have up for bid. I am sure I will be bidding against a few from this list for them. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 18:19:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBRNJSA2026415 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:19:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRNIu4S013762; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:18:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBRNL1qq032601; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:21:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40108.mail.yahoo.com (web40108.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBRNL0qq032565 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:21:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031227231848.53523.qmail@web40108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.22.169] by web40108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:18:48 PST Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:18:48 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Scissors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com We had the same problem....once,lol. Hubby used one of my "good" Knives to pry open a storm grate for a neighbor! not to mention he completely broke off the tip!! We had a time out moment and now he has his own "cutlery" drawer. I asked him once had he been in my sewing box and he turned to me and said "No dear, I know better." Happy Saturday, Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 19:32:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS0WeA2026564 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:32:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS0VY4S017693; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:31:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS0XWqq059219; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:33:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net (razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS0XUqq059196 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:33:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from madlystitching@earthlink.net) Received: from 209-165-46-107.jps.net ([209.165.46.107] helo=w7m1l6) by razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AaOq2-0003CA-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:31:23 -0800 Message-ID: <001901c3ccd9$ca4fc1e0$6b2ea5d1@w7m1l6> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002d01c3ccc4$26aaf420$448ffb40@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: more ebay books Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:30:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ELNK-Trace: 08dba192340bde6e1a6ab3b9b70940f894f5150ab1c16ac050a736d1df7ddf749653148220073cc47ef7403c24d175c8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Why is it the good deals only happen when I am broke and have to stay that way for the good of my long term financial goals. Just shot me now! Stephen One thing you got to say about the Republicans, they don't give up easily. Impeach Clinton, steal Florida, redistrict Texas, recall Davis. You know what, these guys had better watch out or they're going to get slapped with the reputation of being extremely sore losers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Sharpsteen" To: Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 1:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: more ebay books > Don't know if you're interested in any of these, but I listed some of my > costuming books for sale this morning... > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 19:34:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS0Y0A2026569 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:34:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS0XR4S017788; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:33:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS0ZYqq060082; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:35:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS0ZXqq059993 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:35:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A251524008C; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:22:41 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A24E41901E6; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:22:38 -0600 Message-ID: <013e01c3ccda$3fe03160$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200312271353.IAA04903@www21.ureach.com> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:33:41 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Teena, My daughter said every one of her friends received Pirates too! I guess it was the #1 selling video last week. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 19:38:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS0cRA2026580 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:38:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS0bq4S018137; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:37:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS0dxqq061858; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:39:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav40.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS0duqq061821 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:39:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:37:44 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav40.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:37:43 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002d01c3ccc4$26aaf420$448ffb40@oemcomputer> <001901c3ccd9$ca4fc1e0$6b2ea5d1@w7m1l6> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:35:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Dec 2003 00:37:44.0028 (UTC) FILETIME=[CEC241C0:01C3CCDA] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ebay Listings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I've also been listing like mad (that free listing day yesterday) and I listed some Folkwear Patterns, and a few history books including two by Antonia Fraser. I can be found here: http://snipurl.com/3csb Bice Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 19:39:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS0dPA2026586 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:39:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS0cp4S018180; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:38:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS0exqq062272; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:40:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS0evqq062224 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:40:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A39653B008C; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:28:06 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A39234D0206; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:28:02 -0600 Message-ID: <014701c3ccdb$015297c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6E285CF1.3419F5BE.3739C57F@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:39:07 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I wish I could train my kids to leave the scissors alone. We have about five pairs of junk scissors. I have three pairs sewing scissors. They know not to mess with my expensive pair, but they went after my small sewing scissors. I told them that if they messed with my expensive pair to expect to replace them. That was enough to keep them away from them. Then they took off with my office tape dispenser. Next year, the wrapping paper box will not sit in my office! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 20:09:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS19ZA2026681 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:09:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS18v4S019962; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:08:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS1B2qq073296; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:11:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS1B0qq073285 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:11:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kerowyn@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-171.75.244.105.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.244.105] helo=Dan) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AaPQG-0003qs-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:08:48 -0500 Message-ID: <004601c3ccdf$5a5e2b00$69f44bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.1.6.0.20031225224649.02d330f8@radiks.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: What'd ya get? Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:10:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Historical Fashion In Detail, from my DH. Cut My Cote, from myDD. Snow fallen on snow, and this evening, the full moon of November Basho ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre & Sandy Pettinger" To: Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 10:54 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: What'd ya get? > Only a little costume related this year, for Pierre - Figures in Fabric - > the Sculpture of Lisa Liechtenfels, and another Osprey military > history. Both of us got things for our other passions, though, reading > (both) and cooking (me). We both got B&N gift cards, and I got 3 of the > Master and Commander book series and the first Horatio Hornblower book. He > also got a book light. I got a popcorn popper, popcorn, a nylon whisk (for > non-stick pans), and a new toaster/broiler oven. COOL!! > > Pierre and Sandy > > >So, tell us, what nifty costume or sewing related presents did you get? > > > >Merry Christmas, > >Margo > > "Those Who Fail To Learn History > Are Doomed To Repeat It; > Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- > Why They Are Simply Doomed." > > Achemdro'hm > "The Illusion of Historical Fact" > -- C.Y. 4971 > > Andromeda > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 20:11:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS1BgA2026684 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:11:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS1B94S020153; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:11:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS1DGqq074178; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:13:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS1DEqq074136 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:13:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB2615130086; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:00:22 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB232450174; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:00:19 -0600 Message-ID: <001901c3ccdf$8429a180$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:11:23 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: Wax on Tablecloth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Can someone please tell me how to get candle wax out of a tablecloth? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 20:57:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS1vkA2026777 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:57:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS1ut4S022463; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:56:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS1x1qq092109; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:59:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav25.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS1x0qq092064 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:59:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:56:46 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav25.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 01:56:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001901c3ccdf$8429a180$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Wax on Tablecloth Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:54:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Dec 2003 01:56:46.0579 (UTC) FILETIME=[D98A1C30:01C3CCE5] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Get some wax paper set it on the wax and gently iron on medium heat. Brown paper also works. Then wash. Bice Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: December 27, 2003 8:11 PM Subject: [h-cost] OT: Wax on Tablecloth > Can someone please tell me how to get candle wax out of a tablecloth? > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 21:00:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS20pA2026789 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:00:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS20F4S022661; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:00:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS22Nqq093523; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:02:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS22Mqq093512 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:02:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.249.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.249] helo=4gxif) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AaQE1-0002oy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:00:14 -0500 Message-ID: <00bf01c3cce6$6ef80c00$f9f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001901c3ccdf$8429a180$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Wax on Tablecloth Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:00:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Penny wrote: > Can someone please tell me how to get candle wax out of a tablecloth? > Put the tablecloth in the freezer. When the wax is hard, use the back of a table knife to scrape as much of the wax off the tablecloth as possible. Then put a piece of brown paper over the wax and iron it off gently with a warm iron. Allow to cool and repeat with a clean piece of brown paper until you get it all. Then wash. Hopefully, it was a white candle... If it wasn't, then you need to treat the stain to get out the color. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 21:23:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS2N5A2026813 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:23:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS2MV4S023685; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:22:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS2Ocqq002423; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:24:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBS2OZqr002360 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:24:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2003122721222108488 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:22:21 -0500 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id hBS2MKf01454 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:22:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00a901c3cce9$7c928810$56a810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002d01c3ccc4$26aaf420$448ffb40@oemcomputer><001901c3ccd9$ca4fc1e0$6b2ea5d1@w7m1l6> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ebay Listings Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:22:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Me, too...some cotton heirloom type lace http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2369044988 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2369045270 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2369045480 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2369045676 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2369046440 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2369046688 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2369052741 and other stuff. Kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 7:35 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ebay Listings > I've also been listing like mad (that free listing day yesterday) and I > listed some Folkwear Patterns, and a few history books including two by > Antonia Fraser. I can be found here: > > http://snipurl.com/3csb > > > Bice > Now announcing the new > Rolled Florentine Cap > Kristalori History > www.swapking.com/hats > Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb > Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 21:49:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS2nYA2026886 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:49:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS2mu4S024978; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:48:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS2p3qq012186; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:51:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBS2p1qq012146 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:51:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OliR5gboVvj8v1/0/rwaWiQ=">; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:48:13 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JJF2RXRJ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:48:13 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:06:42 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Wax on Tablecloth Message-ID: <20031227.184743.1892.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,7-12,14-30 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Take a plain sheet of paper (white printer paper is fine), and lay it on the wax spot. Take a warm to hot iron (you may need to experiment a bit, but start with the lower temperatures), and iron the paper. The paper should lift the wax. You should scrape off as much of the wax as you can before you do this, but it generally works pretty well. Your iron should be set for DRY--don't use steam. Good luck! Arlys On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:11:23 -0500 "Penny Ladnier" writes: > Can someone please tell me how to get candle wax out of a tablecloth? > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 22:27:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS3RYA2026962 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:27:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS3PY4S026884; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:25:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS3Rfqq025334; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:27:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt11.ihug.co.nz (grunt11.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS3Rbqq025259 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:27:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p38-max20.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.161.102] by grunt11.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AaRYJ-0000WY-00; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:25:16 +1300 Message-ID: <005801c3ccf2$304472d0$66a176cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031227231848.53523.qmail@web40108.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scissors Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:25:04 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I only ever get chep scissors for this very reason;) That way they become paper scissors which are constantly getting lost;) Right now everyone knows they can use the black handled scissors, and the orange handled scissors. but heaven help them if they touch the red or clear handled ones;) Colour coding works for scissors as well as toothbrushes here you see:) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 23:22:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS4MkA2027092 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:22:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS4M54S000189; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:22:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS4O9qq047134; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:24:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mprdmxin.myway.com (nn1.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS4O7qq047099 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:24:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id C3A0B3955; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:21:47 -0500 (EST) To: gailscott@eos.net, h-costume@indra.com Received: from [207.161.56.129] by mprdmailfe3.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:21:47 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 79cd636cc8f7775566126ef5399d9796 From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Message-Id: <20031228042147.C3A0B3955@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:21:47 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: pictures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thanks,My husband is the armourer, and I will definately tell him. The pictures are for an armour archive board he is on, when I asked him to make the link for the portrait, I guess he didn't realize the rest was attached, (I'm computer-hostile.) Wendywww.hecate.ca/emma/--- On Sat 12/27, Gail & Scott Finke < gailscott@eos.net > wrote:From: Gail & Scott Finke [mailto: gailscott@eos.net]To: emmajean@myway.comDate: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:53:29 -0500Subject: picturesWendy:My husband certainly enjoyed all the pictures of armor that come before theportrait you posted! Seriously, he could not get over them. I thought theywere great, too. We want pictures of the armor on!!! Who is the armorer andcan we send him a note to say how great we thought it was? I know you willshow this to him, but we'd like to write anyway --Gail Finkefrom h-costume _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 23:55:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS4tgA2027252 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:55:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS4mp4S001842; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:48:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS4p1qq058225; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:51:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS4oxqq058207 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:51:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-56-227.jps.net ([209.165.56.227] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AaSrB-0005TY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:48:49 -0800 Message-ID: <003701c3ccfe$f774eae0$e338a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:56:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Costumes from the plays of Shakespeare 1870 to 1982 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hBS4tgA2027252 I just came across this very interesting http://www.ulib.csuohio.edu/shakespeare/ . It's a database of around 400 photographs of costumes from the plays of Shakespeare from 1870 to 1982 taken from regional production companies, motion pictures and Shakespeare festivals. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 23:57:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS4vYA2027261 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:57:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS4qG4S001986; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:52:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS4sPqq059472; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:54:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS4rpqq059242 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:53:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-56-227.jps.net ([209.165.56.227] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AaStx-0005w2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:51:41 -0800 Message-ID: <004001c3ccff$5dcabb80$e338a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031227.184743.1892.0.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Wax on Tablecloth Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:59:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:11:23 -0500 "Penny Ladnier" wrote: : > > Can someone please tell me how to get candle wax out of a tablecloth? The dry cleaners I once worked at scraped off the wax then turned the fabric upside down and blew a stream of steam at the remaining wax. Might work if you have an iron with a seperate steam tank or some other steam generating device. The paper method works too. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Dec 27 23:57:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS4vdA2027264 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:57:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS4mQ4S001815; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:48:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS4oYqq058063; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:50:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net (firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS4oWqq058041 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:50:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lsinervo@earthlink.net) Received: from 209-165-56-227.jps.net ([209.165.56.227] helo=pavilion) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AaSqh-00015L-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:48:19 -0800 Message-ID: <002c01c3ccfe$e4884080$e338a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:55:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-ELNK-Trace: 9c05c41117f01b301aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec795290dec2bf51386f9ad8c1e0f6193226350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costumes from the plays of Shakespeare 1870 to 1982 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hBS4vdA2027264 I just came across this very interesting http://www.ulib.csuohio.edu/shakespeare/ . It's a database of around 400 photographs of costumes from the plays of Shakespeare from 1870 to 1982 taken from regional production companies, motion pictures and Shakespeare festivals. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 00:46:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS5kXA2027505 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:46:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS5jg4S004787; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:45:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS5loqq078497; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:47:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS5lmqq078478 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:47:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from sdn-ar-008neomahp092.dialsprint.net ([63.178.246.180] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AaTk9-0004yF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:45:37 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20031227233639.013a4e40@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:41:30 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200312270655.hBR6tOqr064675@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Table X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Audrey, Did you know you can get a pressing cover for these kinds of tables? I've got a table like this (and love it - no drawers, tho') and when we bought it, right beside them Hancock's was selling pressing covers. It goes over the entire top when open, and has a 1" grid, bias lines, etc. printed on it. One caveat: the backing is kind of cheap foam, so I would take an old non-synthetic blanket and put under it. It's nice to have a large pressing surface sometimes. HTH, Sandy >From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" > >But sewing related, I got one of those great foldable cutting tables on >wheels. The central section is about 18 inches wide and it has drawers >underneath and there are two panels that can be folded down on either side, >it's very long once opened. It's hip-height, so it's just the right height >to pin, cut, etc. My mom was tired of seeing me pin and cut on the floor :-) "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 03:54:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBS8s1A2027989 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 03:54:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS8md4S012405; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 01:48:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS8ofqq045805; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 01:50:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS8odqq045796 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 01:50:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from castle8@earthlink.net) Received: from user-33qt7gr.cable.mindspring.com ([199.174.158.27] helo=castlebooks) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AaWbF-0006Fl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:48:37 -0800 Message-ID: <001301c3cd1f$5e8c9e60$1b9eaec7@castlebooks> From: "Janet Davis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] scissors Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 03:48:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > My mother's trick for this was to have a pair of scissors in the > junk drawer of the kitchen. They were always more convenient to get > to than digging through the sewing box. Because of that, I don't > remember many problems with using the wrong scissors. Scissors are > fairly cheap in the stationery aisle, and once I got a set of 3 for > about $5 at Ikea. It's a good insurance policy all through the year, > because there are always things to cut besides wrapping paper! I have at least 5 pairs of scissors scattered in different rooms throughout the house and it was still my sewing scissors that I found with the wrapping paper and ribbon! Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 05:00:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSA0TA2003714 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 05:00:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS9r04S015405; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 02:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS9tBqq067714; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 02:55:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBS9t8qq067701 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 02:55:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lee@gw.retro.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hBS9thw18979 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 01:55:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 01:55:44 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200312280955.hBS9thw18979@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > > I had to learn to hide my best scissors as well, since my husband never seems to remember that some scissors are NEVER to used for cutting paper. His reasoning-- the time I caught him brandishing my ginghers toward a roll of holiday paper--was that I 'would'nt notice , just once'.But , then, he built me a sewing studio--so all the 'good scissors ' are now out there--while the kitchen 'junk drawar ' has 2 pairs of 'utility scissors'. > Problem solved:) And marriage saved:) I've threatened to use the tiny shears my husband uses to trim his beard. After that, he got the idea about my sewing scissors. Now, if I could only train him to quit using my jeweler's hammers and mallets on "quick" projects. I nearly killed him when I found out that the toolbox that was stolen had my farrier's hammer in it (which should have never left my workbench). My mother bought me a new leather jacket this year. My brother saw the big box with Harley Davidson wrap under the tree and immediately thought it was for himself. He was crushed when he found out it was for *me*. ;} Unlike most women's jackets these days, the Harley jacket has bust darts in it, which means it actually fits me. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 10:03:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSF3PA2008856 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:03:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSEtr4S028527; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 07:55:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSEupqq075548; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 07:56:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBSEunqq075535 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 07:56:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031228145434.71190.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.123] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 06:54:34 PST Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 06:54:34 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Wax on Tablecloth To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031227.184743.1892.0.Cley@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I've had good success with actually putting the item in the freezer for a few hours and then 'flicking' the wax out. Albra Cynthia J Ley wrote: Take a plain sheet of paper (white printer paper is fine), and lay it on the wax spot. Take a warm to hot iron (you may need to experiment a bit, but start with the lower temperatures), and iron the paper. The paper should lift the wax. You should scrape off as much of the wax as you can before you do this, but it generally works pretty well. Your iron should be set for DRY--don't use steam. Good luck! Arlys On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:11:23 -0500 "Penny Ladnier" writes: > Can someone please tell me how to get candle wax out of a tablecloth? > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 10:30:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSFUWA2008943 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:30:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSFMK4S029875; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:22:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSFOYqq086897; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:24:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSFOXqq086888 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:24:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kerowyn@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-171.75.245.52.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.245.52] helo=Dan) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AackC-0004l6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:22:17 -0500 Message-ID: <003501c3cd56$95741480$34f54bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> <001301c3cd1f$5e8c9e60$1b9eaec7@castlebooks> Subject: Re: [h-cost] scissors Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 09:23:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I've heard of women who padlock their sewing scissors to keep the family from using them. Or, hiding them in empty feminine hygiene boxes(husbands won't go near those). ;=) p.s. I know I need to change the sig. I just haven't found a good one. Snow fallen on snow, and this evening, the full moon of November Basho ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Davis" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] scissors > > My mother's trick for this was to have a pair of scissors in the > > junk drawer of the kitchen. They were always more convenient to get > > to than digging through the sewing box. Because of that, I don't > > remember many problems with using the wrong scissors. Scissors are > > fairly cheap in the stationery aisle, and once I got a set of 3 for > > about $5 at Ikea. It's a good insurance policy all through the year, > > because there are always things to cut besides wrapping paper! > > I have at least 5 pairs of scissors scattered in different rooms throughout > the house and it was still my sewing scissors that I found with the wrapping > paper and ribbon! > > Janet > > Janet Davis > Castle Furnishings > http://www.medievalbookstore.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 10:34:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSFYsA2008954 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:34:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSFTd4S000478; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:29:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSFVrqq089736; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:31:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40111.mail.yahoo.com (web40111.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBSFVqqq089673 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:31:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031228152931.39185.qmail@web40111.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.28.192] by web40111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 07:29:31 PST Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 07:29:31 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] dyeing silk satin X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I saw some hideous fushia silk satin at a good price. Is it dyeable? What color might I get out of it? (Not to mention is dylon okay?) TIA! Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 10:35:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSFZvA2008959 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:35:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSFUI4S000529; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:30:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSFWXqq090023; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:32:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSFWUqq089926 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:32:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3053919FE1B for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:30:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FEEF86C.9050507@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:36:12 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Looking for pictures of Artemis greek goddes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com My husband got a funny idea. Hopefully I will organise an archery demo on a fantasy fair next year. Our Archery club is called Artemis '79 and my husband thought it would be fun if I would go dressed like Artemis. Now I am looking for pictures on the internet to see waht it would look like. And I could use some help. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 12:10:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSHAoA2009271 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:10:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSH8p4S007178; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:08:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHB5qq032958; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:11:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHB4qq032949 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:11:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AaePH-00013W-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 09:08:47 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for pictures of Artemis greek goddes Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:08:58 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c3cd65$4876ebd0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FEEF86C.9050507@kabelfoon.nl> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [Sg] Sounds like a great idea! You will look great I am sure! [Sg] Be sure to also look for material under Diana, Goddess of the hunt etc.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 12:13:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSHDmA2009291 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:13:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHDG4S007549; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:13:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHFXqq035039; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:15:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHFVqq035010 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:15:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@infotrope.net) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5FC23707B for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:13:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AaeTZ-0005PQ-00 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:13:13 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: scissors, was Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:13:13 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I don't get it. I usually buy scissors in the $30 range, and use them for whatever until they aren't as nice as they were, then buy another pair. The newest pair is usually/always the pair I use for cutting fabric, but I also use them for other stuff. Probably buy a new pair every 3-5 years. >From what I read, it seems like this approach (not guarding my fabric scissors with my life) is anathema to most sewers. Why? K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 12:16:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSHGiA2009297 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:16:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHG74S007873; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:16:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHINqq036517; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:18:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav45.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHILqq036468 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:18:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 09:15:57 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav45.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 17:15:57 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FEEF86C.9050507@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for pictures of Artemis greek goddes Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:14:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Dec 2003 17:15:57.0947 (UTC) FILETIME=[425104B0:01C3CD66] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/artemis.html Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "H-Costume" Sent: December 28, 2003 10:36 AM Subject: [h-cost] Looking for pictures of Artemis greek goddes > My husband got a funny idea. Hopefully I will organise an archery demo > on a fantasy fair next year. > Our Archery club is called Artemis '79 and my husband thought it would > be fun if I would go dressed like Artemis. > Now I am looking for pictures on the internet to see waht it would look > like. > And I could use some help. > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 12:18:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSHIUA2009301 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:18:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHHr4S007941; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:17:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHKAqq037243; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:20:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav23.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHK7qq037212 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:20:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 09:17:45 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav23.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 17:17:45 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: scissors, was Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:16:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Dec 2003 17:17:45.0375 (UTC) FILETIME=[82593AF0:01C3CD66] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mostly because most people buy a pair of $30 scissors and that's it for a long time(more than 3 years). I don't even own a pair that pricey. My most expensive are some that cost $10 and woe betide the creature that uses them on paper. B~ Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: December 28, 2003 12:13 PM Subject: scissors, was Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? > I don't get it. I usually buy scissors in the $30 range, and use them > for whatever until they aren't as nice as they were, then buy another > pair. The newest pair is usually/always the pair I use for cutting > fabric, but I also use them for other stuff. Probably buy a new pair > every 3-5 years. > > >From what I read, it seems like this approach (not guarding my fabric > scissors with my life) is anathema to most sewers. Why? > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 12:30:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSHUXA2009328 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:30:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHU04S008583; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:30:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHWDqq042192; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:32:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHWBqq042179 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:32:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id hBSHTpla020614 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:29:51 -0500 Message-Id: <200312281729.hBSHTpla020614@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 17:25:16 -0000 To: Historical Costume From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: scissors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Scissors are thought to get duller faster if you use them to cut paper (I don't know if this is true or not). More importantly, paper scissors are often not cared for very well, and as "lesser" scissors might be used to cut a thin bit of wire, they might hit a staple, etc. This causes nicks in the blade that, when cutting fabric, will skip cutting a thread. When cutting a thin silk, it's REALLY maddening! But scissors with nicks in the blades will still cut most paper just fine. So if I have a pair or three around for general use, I can get a lot of mileage out of my sewing scissors. We were discussing this last night at a party. A friend mentioned how she prevented someone from using another friend's sewing scissors for paper. The perpretrator claimed that using them on paper just once would not hurt the scissors. My friend explained that while he may be right, the owner of the scissors doesn't believe that, and he could prevent a lot of grief (and possible bodily harm) by using other scissors. He realized the error of his thinking... -Carol Kirrily Robert said: > I don't get it. I usually buy scissors in the $30 range, and use them > for whatever until they aren't as nice as they were, then buy another > pair. The newest pair is usually/always the pair I use for cutting > fabric, but I also use them for other stuff. Probably buy a new pair > every 3-5 years. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 12:35:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSHZ0A2009334 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:35:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHYB4S008851; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:34:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHaRqq043998; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:36:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web61109.mail.yahoo.com (web61109.mail.yahoo.com [216.155.196.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBSHaMqq043929 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:36:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031228173400.41352.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.211.65.97] by web61109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 09:34:00 PST Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 09:34:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031224150308.011c2bc0@pop.directcon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com *lol* well, my best friend gave me a book on heraldry, a Dover book filled with photos of Victorian clothing, and a leather 'chest' handbag to put my small jewelry in for cons or SCA. Nick and Teren got me a 'garnet' choker and bracelet that looks fun--i know it's older but not how old-hopefully I can find some help placing a time period or inspiration for it in the next year. a check coming from my mother which will likely go for sewing supplies or more books. a really good wool sale on the 20th, where I got lots of lightweight 100% wool ends, and took my niece so that she could pick out some for a GFD of her own. we also got movies: Pirates of course, and a subscription to Netflix. Plus, non-costume related, but Sword and Sorceress XII (XIII?) with a Royo cover and a short story in in by Heather. (My sci-fi/fantasy book hoard alone is larger than my fabric hoard!)And a new LARGE roaster which can be used for my parties and the cons to cook in. :-) Angharad Who has some dark loden green wool to practice making a sideless surcote with before the rose-pink gets here-whoo hoo! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 12:46:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSHkiA2009358 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:46:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHk84S009443; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:46:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHmMqq048574; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:48:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSHmJqq048518 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:48:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C2F8425CE for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:54:54 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FEF16AA.1060700@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:45:14 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: scissors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Kirrily Robert wrote: >>From what I read, it seems like this approach (not guarding my fabric > scissors with my life) is anathema to most sewers. Why? Using scissors is like driving a car. I get used to the way they handle and what I can expect from them, and using a different pair makes my job harder because I have to slow down and pay more attention to how they are working. I sharpen my scissors and knives frequently at home to keep them in the best condition. I only bought a new pair of expensive scissors a few years ago when one of my housemates broke the tip off the pair I inheirited from my grandfather. For a while I was buying those cheap orange handled scissors and doing just what you do, using them for about a year then buying a new pair and relegating the old ones to craft use. I got tired of needing to buy new sharp scissors every time I started a costume project, though. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 13:15:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSIFZA2009418 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:15:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSI6m4S010638; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:06:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSI8kqq057331; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:08:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSI8iqq057293 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:08:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.1aa.1e57aba9 (3858) for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:06:17 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1aa.1e57aba9.2d207599@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:06:17 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/28/2003 12:46:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: For a while I was buying those cheap orange handled scissors and doing just what you do, using them for about a year then buying a new pair and relegating the old ones to craft use. I got tired of needing to buy new sharp scissors every time I started a costume project, though. To weigh in on scissors/shears. First, my husband hates to wrap, and we are switching over to bags and boxes, so don't usually need to use scissors, although I do keep a pair in my wrapping paper storage. I'm left-handed, and got a pair of Wiss shears for my birthday years ago. They were my shears of choice until I discovered Ginghers. The Wiss just can't handle heavy fabrics as well. I understand that Ginghers are the only shears to reverse the blades as well as the handles for left-handers. But I have found they are very prone to being knocked out of alignment when dropped (yeah! I'm bad about that). So I sent them back to be re-conditioned. Meantime, I won as a door prize a pair of the Fiskars with squeeze handles that look kind of like garden shears. I love these and tend to use them more than my Ginghers. Handedness is not a big issue with them, When I misplaced them, I used my 50% off coupon at JoAnns to get another pair. And as to pinking shears, the Ginghers are the ONLY left-handed pair I have found that works at all. I don't use them often, but am glad I have them. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 13:57:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSIvWA2009475 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:57:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSIuw4S014299; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:56:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSIxEqq081645; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:59:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSIxBqq081597 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:59:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:56:47 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:56:33 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: So, What'd ya get? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Looks like I am a little behind in this, hubby had the computer room dismantled while we setup the new wall of Libra shelving that was part of our Christmas to each other. Woo Hoo, more shelves for books :), including 2 reproductions of period embroidery books I got for Christmas, double Woo Hoo :) :) :). Dawn: I didn't make it to Cy's after Christmas sale. Did I miss much? Scissors: I gave the hubby his own pair years ago out of self-defense. Works pretty good altho he still has a tendency to grab my semi-good pair of embroidery scissors from time to time. Bobbin Lace; for period patterns Le Pompe is about the only one out there. Modern torchon patterns have similarities to late period patterns so a books on those would give you some to work with. Sorry I don't have one particular book to recommend. And if you want to work with metallics I have had pretty good luck with the DMC gold & silver meant for embroidery. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 15:36:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSKaPA2009728 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:36:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSKUo4S019950; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:30:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSKX3qq022153; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:33:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSKP7qq018614 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:25:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from margo@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a40.directcon.net [207.215.72.40]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hBSKSA606757; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:28:10 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031228121900.00b45b80@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:19:00 -0800 To: Historical Costume , "Historical Costume" From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-Reply-To: <014701c3ccdb$015297c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> References: <6E285CF1.3419F5BE.3739C57F@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 07:39 PM 12/27/2003 -0500, Penny Ladnier wrote: >I wish I could train my kids to leave the scissors alone. Penny, try putting a small padlock through the finger loops! Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 15:56:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSKuJA2009758 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:56:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSKtb4S021236; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:55:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSKvtqq031860; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:57:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web61108.mail.yahoo.com (web61108.mail.yahoo.com [216.155.196.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBSKvrqq031822 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:57:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031228205529.24808.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.211.65.97] by web61108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:55:29 PST Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:55:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Question on fur usage (12-14th cen, Tudor, Elizabethan) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I received the following message from a friend: "Before I bang my head against the wall of research yet again (and my free time is limited with projects to finish for 12th night, Rustycon, etc) I thought I’d ask someone who might know: Seal fur. Specifically, white seal fur. Do you know off hand if this was used in period? I’m asking because one of my suppliers has it on clearance, and it’s quite lovely. . . but I don’t want to buy it if I can’t USE it." I looked and realized that I don't know, none of my notes that I've ever taken dealt specifically with seal-type fur-and I've been looking more into cat-type usage lately (Lynx). I asked her what period she meant, and the replay was for 12-14th century usage, as well as for Tudor or Elizabethan. Does anyone have an answer that I could forward? Thank you, Angharad __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 16:00:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBSL0kA2009771 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:00:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSL0B4S021478; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 14:00:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSL2Tqq033807; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 14:02:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav61.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSL2Rqq033744 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 14:02:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:00:03 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav61.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:00:03 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031228205529.24808.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question on fur usage (12-14th cen, Tudor, Elizabethan) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:58:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Dec 2003 21:00:03.0794 (UTC) FILETIME=[90AA7320:01C3CD85] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I'm wondering if about the only time might be something russian? Now I'm curious.... B~ Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: December 28, 2003 3:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] Question on fur usage (12-14th cen, Tudor, Elizabethan) > I received the following message from a friend: > > "Before I bang my head against the wall of research > yet again (and my free time is limited with projects > to finish for 12th night, Rustycon, etc) I thought I'd > ask someone who might know: Seal fur. Specifically, > white seal fur. Do you know off hand if this was used > in period? I'm asking because one of my suppliers has > it on clearance, and it's quite lovely. . . but I > don't want to buy it if I can't USE it." > > I looked and realized that I don't know, none of my > notes that I've ever taken dealt specifically with > seal-type fur-and I've been looking more into cat-type > usage lately (Lynx). > > I asked her what period she meant, and the replay was > for 12-14th century usage, as well as for Tudor or > Elizabethan. > > Does anyone have an answer that I could forward? > > Thank you, > > Angharad > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Dec 28 22:02:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBT32aA2010989 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:02:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT31T4S012812; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:01:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT33hqq084757; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:03:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBT33fqq084729 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:03:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 23444 invoked from network); 29 Dec 2003 03:01:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 29 Dec 2003 03:01:18 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 19:01:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1046.24.4.69.40.1072666878.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20031228205529.24808.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 19:01:18 -0800 (PST) From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hey everyone! I was hoping to pick your brains on a problem I am having. Namely not having enough light in my sewing room! I have gone searching for bright lamps and cannot seem to find any. All of the halogen lamps are only 300 watts and not very bright and nobody seems to make a lamp that throws enough light to sew by. So what do you have in the way of lighting in your sewing area? Do you have any recommendations as to where I can find brighter lighting? Thanks in advance! -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 00:46:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBT5kPA2011403 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 00:46:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT5jg4S022658; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:45:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT5m3qq053294; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:48:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT5m2qq053284 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:48:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.176.69]) by smail3.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 252439 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:38:12 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:45:41 -0600 Message-ID: <000401c3cdce$fee2a850$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <1046.24.4.69.40.1072666878.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Try full spectrum fluorescent tubes. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Diana Habra Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 9:01 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room Hey everyone! I was hoping to pick your brains on a problem I am having. Namely not having enough light in my sewing room! I have gone searching for bright lamps and cannot seem to find any. All of the halogen lamps are only 300 watts and not very bright and nobody seems to make a lamp that throws enough light to sew by. So what do you have in the way of lighting in your sewing area? Do you have any recommendations as to where I can find brighter lighting? Thanks in advance! -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 00:46:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBT5khA2011407 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 00:46:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT5kH4S022692; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:46:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT5meqq053485; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:48:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT5mXqr053455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:48:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBT5hrPp010575 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 00:43:53 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 00:43:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FEFBFE7.3040705@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 00:47:19 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] scissors References: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Due to marrying another person who sews, we had lots of scissors. So I tested all of them, and rated them. The poorer-quality ones were "rated" rough and we wrote that on the plastic handles. Makes things much easier for non-fabric folks to figure out. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent And so, faced with shocking lack of documentation, I am forced to invent some of my own. -- Cecil Adams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 03:39:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBT8dkA2004999 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 03:39:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT8aI4S001127; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 01:36:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT8cZqq020415; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 01:38:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT8cYqq020394 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 01:38:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQN00LQSEK7OO@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 00:36:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 00:33:11 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room In-reply-to: <1046.24.4.69.40.1072666878.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031229001816.01fd5950@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20031228205529.24808.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi Diana, Just how bright are you looking for? In my sewing room, I have a ceiling fan with 3-65 watt Halogen bulbs in it (gotta have the ceiling fan as this room gets very hot in the summer, AC notwithstanding). I also have a task Ott light (color corrected florescent) that provides spot lighting for my sewing area or wherever I need. I then have three small low-watt halogen counter lights that are enough for my pattern drafting and other work over my storage cabinets (converted kitchen counters). This really works well enough for me, even late at night. So why the mega watt lighting needs? What would you use them for? What do you mean the 300 watt halogens aren't bright enough? I am really scratching my head on this, because the task lights I have are lower watts, but I still do great by them. Otherwise, the only other suggestion I have is to get several halogen work lamps from Home Depot or Lowes or other home lumber store, and place them around the room. The one I am looking at online (Regent Twin Stand Work Light with Tripod) has two 500 watt T-3 double-ended halogen bulbs. My dad used them for his house/carpentry needs, and boy they light up a room. Good luck! Kimiko At 07:01 PM 12/28/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Hey everyone! > >I was hoping to pick your brains on a problem I am having. Namely not >having enough light in my sewing room! I have gone searching for bright >lamps and cannot seem to find any. All of the halogen lamps are only 300 >watts and not very bright and nobody seems to make a lamp that throws >enough light to sew by. > >So what do you have in the way of lighting in your sewing area? Do you >have any recommendations as to where I can find brighter lighting? > >Thanks in advance! > >-- >Diana Habra >www.renaissancefabrics.net >"Everything for the Costumer" Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 04:05:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBT95wA2005470 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 04:05:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT95N4S002369; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:05:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT97lqq031515; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:07:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT97jqq031477 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:07:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABC0D8E0088; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:54:24 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABBC37F01E4; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:54:20 -0600 Message-ID: <026e01c3cdea$eeb3ada0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6E285CF1.3419F5BE.3739C57F@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20031228121900.00b45b80@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 04:05:15 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Now that might work Margo!!!!! Thanks for the idea! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 04:22:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBT9MnA2005483 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 04:22:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT9ME4S003083; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:22:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT9Ocqq037857; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:24:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT9Oaqq037811 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:24:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFB4128C0080; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 03:11:16 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFB03AB01E4; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 03:11:12 -0600 Message-ID: <027b01c3cded$49bd6cc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 04:22:31 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: scissors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com My expensive pair are Fiskars Softouch and are spring loaded. They do not have the two holes for the fingers. You can see them here: http://www.westons.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Fiskars__Softouch__Scissors_644.html I am left handed but do all my cutting with my right hand. For years I turned normal scissors upside down to cut. My costume professor suggested that I switch to the Softouch... then they cost about $45. I see on this webpage they are $37.50 now. I have had this pair for about seven years and not needed to sharpen them yet. But I don't sew all the time. They do take some time to get used to using them... but it is worth it. My hand no longer hurts when I cut out things, even heavy fabrics. The other nice thing about the scissors is that they will lock into place with the switch of a button. Its the orange thing on the scissors image. The pads on the handles are really nice too. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 04:30:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBT9UJA2005493 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 04:30:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT9Tk4S003389; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:29:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT9WAqq041066; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:32:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT9W2qq040927 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:32:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A16D12A20080; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 03:18:37 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1695E40214; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 03:18:33 -0600 Message-ID: <028401c3cdee$50cb09e0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031228145434.71190.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Wax on Tablecloth Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 04:29:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thank you to everyone for your suggestions! I got the wax out using the scrapping method and then an iron on medium heat. We do not use brown paper bags in our house (attracts roaches). So I used a paper towel to absorb the melted wax. The wax was purple, so I put Spray N Wash on the stains after I removed the wax. Everything came out of the tablecloth. Many thanks again! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 04:42:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBT9grA2005506 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 04:42:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT9gI4S004012; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:42:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT9igqq046360; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:44:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT9ibqq046286 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:44:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A46412BB0080; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 03:31:16 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3FB92001DC; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 03:29:31 -0600 Message-ID: <029301c3cdef$d920f740$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> <027b01c3cded$49bd6cc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 04:40:50 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com One last note... I used to buy the cheap orange handled scissors frequently like people have mentioned. I retired all of them for junk usage since I bought the Softouch one. I figured to buy a good pair at $45 that lasts seven years is a deal compared to buying seven years of cheap orange ones. I have also two small pairs of special scissors for sewing. One stays in my sewing machine case for using when on the machine. The other one stays in my embroidery kit. While we are on sewing... since I changed to bifocals a few years ago, it is the dickens to thread my sewing machine needles. Any suggestions on what has worked for you? I used the old silver needle threaders for hand sewing needles and that works. But the light from the sewing machine reflects in my glasses and makes it even harder to thread the needle. For the past few years I have been having my kids thread my sewing machine needle. Any suggestions other than having someone else do it? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 04:50:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBT9o9A2005511 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 04:50:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT9nZ4S004309; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:49:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT9pxqq049272; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:51:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBT9pwqq049228 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:51:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A61D199A0062; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 03:38:37 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A61992C01DC; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 03:38:33 -0600 Message-ID: <029801c3cdf1$1c699600$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com><001301c3cd1f$5e8c9e60$1b9eaec7@castlebooks> <003501c3cd56$95741480$34f54bab@Dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] scissors Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 04:49:53 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com LOL!!! Basho... you caught me reading my mail backwards! Thank you for the padlock method too. Hmmmm... the tampax drawer would be a good place to hide the hair cutting scissors. Maybe that will keep my daughter from cutting all her Barbies' hair with those good scissors. Okay, no jokes here....... I know some of you are thinking of them. I can imagine one day when I die... my family goes through my stuff and finds about 10 different types of scissors that I have hid. Some people have fabric obsessions... I have one for scissors and their specific purposes. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 07:50:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTCoMA2006092 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 07:50:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTCnj4S013766; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 05:49:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTCq7qq020093; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 05:52:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com ([12.178.72.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTCq5qq020080 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 05:52:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ceu@equinox.shaysnet.com) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hBTCtiip027241; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 07:55:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 07:55:41 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1046.24.4.69.40.1072666878.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Firstly, I have to point out that although halogen lights are pretty bright, they also get very, very hot. I forget exactly what the statistics are, but many houses have burned down due to those tall halogen lights falling over (especially is they're on a carpet, they're not very stable). Plus, I can say from experience that two of those halogen torch lights will certainly contribute to heating up a room. While this is nice in the winter, it is not in the summer. One thing to look for, though, in your hunting is not the wattage, but the lumens. This depends on how efficient the bulb has been designed/made. That gives you an idea of how bright the light will be. My dad actually suggested that you see if you can find some florescent lamps used in drafting rooms. They're slightly blue tinted, but very bright. I must admit, I don't understand everything I ought to about watts and lumens, but the info I've just given you has worked for me. Hope this helps! Kate! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 09:10:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTEAcA2006304 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:10:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTE944S017856; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 07:09:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTEBTqq050755; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 07:11:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBTEBSqr050695 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 07:11:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2003122909085411784 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:08:54 -0500 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id hBTE8rf04051 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:08:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <013601c3ce15$5f6ba0f0$56a810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com><027b01c3cded$49bd6cc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <029301c3cdef$d920f740$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:09:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com They make an attachment for Berninas that is an adjustable little magnifing glass that you can swing up out of the way when you don't need it. There's also a generic one that's not as versitile that you could attach but I find gets in the way if attached to my Kenmore -- so I either take off my glasses for close work (which may not be the answer for too many more years) or hold the glass in one hand and thread with the other. Also using the tweezers from my serger seems to help. Kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 4:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors > One last note... I used to buy the cheap orange handled scissors frequently > like people have mentioned. I retired all of them for junk usage since I > bought the Softouch one. I figured to buy a good pair at $45 that lasts > seven years is a deal compared to buying seven years of cheap orange ones. > I have also two small pairs of special scissors for sewing. One stays in my > sewing machine case for using when on the machine. The other one stays in > my embroidery kit. > > While we are on sewing... since I changed to bifocals a few years ago, it is > the dickens to thread my sewing machine needles. Any suggestions on what > has worked for you? I used the old silver needle threaders for hand sewing > needles and that works. But the light from the sewing machine reflects in > my glasses and makes it even harder to thread the needle. For the past few > years I have been having my kids thread my sewing machine needle. Any > suggestions other than having someone else do it? > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 09:55:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTEtPA2006460 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:55:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTErW4S020518; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 07:53:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTEtwqq069544; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 07:55:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (mta2-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTEtuqq069530 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 07:55:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@agesofelegance.co.uk) Received: from Imedia5043 ([81.101.70.103]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20031229145326.JIHK19255.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:53:26 +0000 Message-ID: <002b01c3ce1b$7d79f7d0$67466551@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:53:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I use a daylight simulation bulb in my room which gives a clear light dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 10:11:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTFBMA2006522 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:11:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTF884S021736; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:08:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTFAZqq076428; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:10:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav36.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTFAXqq076349 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:10:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 07:08:00 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav36.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:07:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031228205529.24808.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031229001816.01fd5950@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:06:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Dec 2003 15:08:00.0228 (UTC) FILETIME=[8C73D240:01C3CE1D] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com These are the best lights I've used. I need to replace my one ott lite but other than that these work great. http://snipurl.com/3kvd B~ Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs > At 07:01 PM 12/28/2003 -0800, you wrote: > >Hey everyone! > > > >I was hoping to pick your brains on a problem I am having. Namely not > >having enough light in my sewing room! I have gone searching for bright > >lamps and cannot seem to find any. All of the halogen lamps are only 300 > >watts and not very bright and nobody seems to make a lamp that throws > >enough light to sew by. > > > >So what do you have in the way of lighting in your sewing area? Do you > >have any recommendations as to where I can find brighter lighting? > > > >Thanks in advance! > > > >-- > >Diana Habra > >www.renaissancefabrics.net > >"Everything for the Costumer" > > > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 11:07:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTG74A2006704 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:07:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTG6Z4S026072; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:06:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTG8Nqq007944; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:08:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12907.mail.yahoo.com (web12907.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBTG8Lqq007932 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:08:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20031229160552.66504.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.48.41.31] by web12907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:05:52 EST Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:05:52 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page Subject: [h-cost] Question on fur usage (12-14th cen, Tudor, To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com There is an exant seal skin pair of breeches from the Viking era: http://www.viking-experience.co.uk/authenticity/basickit/basickit6.html Look for the Greenland breeches. Other than that, I would suspect that the typical usage of seal fur would be like beaver and other water mammals - hats, cloak linings, etc. Kathy ~who came out of lurking for the first time~ --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 11:39:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTGd2A2006790 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:39:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTGZC4S028527; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:35:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTGb5qq025045; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:37:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTGb2qq025010 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:37:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06940299pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.19.18]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A32DD16037 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:34:38 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: scissors Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:41:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <027b01c3cded$49bd6cc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Ah, I love the Fiskars as well. I have used my 50% off coupons at Joann's chain stores to get those several times (one pair got "borrowed" and has a nick). The price is often much better than Penny's website listed them for, so shop around. They also make a small pair of thread snips that I love and keep right by the sewing machines. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 11:51:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTGppA2006835 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:51:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTGoI4S029901; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:50:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTGqAqq034719; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:52:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTGq8qq034632 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:52:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.7c.409067c2 (4362) for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:49:23 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <7c.409067c2.2d21b513@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:49:23 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I use a drafting lamp over my immediate sewing area, otherwise, we've got 2 torchiers (sp?) in that room. I do most of my cutting in the dining room, and in there we have a ceiling fan with 3 70-watt bulbs. Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 11:52:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTGq9A2006840 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:52:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTGpl4S000140; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:51:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTGreqq035615; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:53:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTGraqq035533 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:53:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C34D425CE for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:00:03 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FF05B55.1040806@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:50:29 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room References: <20031228205529.24808.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> <1046.24.4.69.40.1072666878.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <1046.24.4.69.40.1072666878.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Diana Habra wrote: > So what do you have in the way of lighting in your sewing area? Do you > have any recommendations as to where I can find brighter lighting? > I have similar problems to you. I have one small window and one of those halogen torchieres. I don't get much sewing done after sunset. The 300w halogen is fine for evening reading, ironing, or laying out patterns but I can't see to thread a needle by it or do any hand work. When possible I commandeer the room with the best natural light for the sewing room. I've had wonderful rooms with picture windows and views of the garden or courtyard, but not in this house. I tried to use desk lamps for task lighting, but I have so little surface to put them on and I already have to run two power strips into the room for the sewing machines and existing lighting, and when my iron comes on all the lights in the house dim at once. Plus anything with a cord the cats tend to pull onto the floor -- and my sewing room does not have a door. If I had an overhead light I would put in one of those new low watt corkscrew shaped energy saving bulbs. It takes them a minute or two to warm up when you first turn them on -- not good for people who turn the lights on and off as they enter and leave rooms -- but after it gets going it gets really bright. I have the same lack of light problem in the kitchen and after replacing the single fixture with three of those the room really lit up! What I want is skylights! Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 11:55:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTGtHA2006859 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:55:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTGsx4S000496; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:54:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTGuqqq037662; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:56:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTGupqq037599 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:56:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.98.57fa7d (4362) for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:54:10 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <98.57fa7d.2d21b632@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:54:10 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/29/2003 1:33:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: Anymore, unless I'm cutting sheer silks, or a super-intricate pattern, I use a rotary cutter. Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 12:11:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTHBiA2006949 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:11:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHBN4S002046; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:11:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHDFqq048154; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:13:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHDDqq048143 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:13:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ab0u3-0007Xe-00; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:10:03 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: , , "H-Costume@Indra. Com" Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:10:02 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c3ce2e$a23eada0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FW: Estrella War Class Reminder X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hBTHBiA2006949 Hi folks, if anyone is going to Estrella and wants to teach I know the organizer is still trying to fill out her schedule. I will be teaching my Puff & Slash, Gollar, and Shoulder Roll classes again if anyone is interested. Sg (Sorry for the Cross posts) Subject: Estrella War Class Reminder Greetings to all the fabulous people who taught at Estrella War 2003 If you would like to teach again and have not already scheduled a class with me please email me today with your class information. I am especially lacking in Middle Eastern dance classes and brewing classes (and cooking classes). I would also love a silk banner painting class. If you know of anyone who might be willing to teach please have them contact me immediately. (or send me their contact information) The gate book is going to the printers this week and I really need your help to fill out the class schedule! Thanks- Maestra Camilla A&S Class Autocrat Estrella War 2004 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 12:16:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTHGVA2006993 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:16:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHEt4S002501; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:14:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHGoqq050599; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:16:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHGiqq050497 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:16:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ab0xg-00025F-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:13:48 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room-ott light floor model Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:13:45 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c3ce2f$28050bf0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3FF05B55.1040806@reddawn.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [Sg] I like the light my ott light gives off, but I dislike the model I have. This is the floor standing type with the magnifying glass and long narrow bulbs. It tips over very easily and is very difficult to adjust to get light without glare on the glass. At $30 a crack for bulbs, tipping over is a real issue. Thank goodness for half off coupons at Joanns. (Also, for a long time they couldn't keep them in stock!) [Sg] I would avoid this model again. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 12:22:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTHMEA2007017 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:22:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHLu4S003183; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:21:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHNnqq054866; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:23:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHNlqq054850 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:23:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.194.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.194] helo=4gxif) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ab14v-0007ZQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:21:17 -0500 Message-ID: <01b101c3ce30$3e0e9140$c2f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031228205529.24808.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> <1046.24.4.69.40.1072666878.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <3FF05B55.1040806@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:21:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I'm curretnly sewing in my kitchen, and the ceiling lights are directly over the sink- nowhere near the table. I got a gooseneck floorlamp at IKEA for $10. It can only take a 60W bulb, but because you can focus it on the task, it maximizes the light. I also switched to the GE Reveal bulbs. While not as color-correcting as my Ott Lite, the Reveal bulb throws a lot of good quality light for only a little more money. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 12:28:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTHSEA2007048 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:28:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHRo4S003754; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:27:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHTiqq058642; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:29:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web61108.mail.yahoo.com (web61108.mail.yahoo.com [216.155.196.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBTHTgqq058537 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:29:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031229172707.96814.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.82.36.102] by web61108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:27:07 PST Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:27:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <7c.409067c2.2d21b513@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com last year, on the Boxing Day (day after Christmas sales), I picked up some of the spotlight/floodlights in the Christmas stuff at Joann's for 75% off. Since I own my house, I installed them on the ceiling and pointed them to afford the best light for my three machines. Yeah, I've got two green cords partially showing (I hid them behind one large poster for part of the wall) against my dark cobalt blue walls-but the lighting is nice and strong. Angharad __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 12:28:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTHSEA2007049 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:28:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHQe4S003649; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:26:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHSXqq057833; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:28:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12908.mail.yahoo.com (web12908.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBTHSWqq057814 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:28:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20031229172602.98358.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.48.41.31] by web12908.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:26:02 EST Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:26:02 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] hundred and one questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi everyone, I've been lurking for quite some time now, getting the general grip of things. I am a former Confed/Civil War/Vic/Ed seamstress, turned Med/Ren in the past year and a half. I've done some work for small regional museums, did two historical fashion shows and reenactors, aside from my own costuming. Right now I am working on a scad of things- one in particular is a late period Venetian. I have a current theory about the ruff that occasionally appears in art. Two examples of these would be: http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona/VeronicaFrancoTerzaRimaC1576.jpg http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona/venetiandebutante.jpg There are two others in QEWU as well. I have been discussing this on another list, and have whittled down my theories as to the actual date and origin of this style to these: 1. That these are not native ruff fashions, but French imports. I can't find a large enough repository of French portraiture yet to substantiate this. Does anyone have some suggestions to head me in the right direction? 2. That these engravings are misdated. Does anyone have any information on the artist Giacomo Franco and the original sources for the engravings listed above? I would like to find out more about when and where this art was created. 3. I suspect that the artist took creative license in making the partlet particularly noticeable, along with the weave pattern of the ruff. It is possible too, that the decorative material was a different colour, giving the artist reason to make them prominent. I frankly doubt the latter statement, but won't discount it as a possibility. Is there anyone out there that has an opinion either way? 4. The ruff, IMHO has a supportasse. It sits at a rather curious angle to be self-supporting, much less taking into account the pervasive moisture of Venice, I can't see starch being the sole support of this variation of ruff. If so, how would that supportasse be made, and attached to the partlet? 5. I have had an enthusiastic debate time and again on this theory, so I'll throw it out here and see what comes of it. I feel that there was some kind of corseting involved in this period. I am thinking more of a corselet, utilising tension in the camicia to supply support to the bust along with a rather firmly attached partlet (to what, I have yet to conceive that notion)giving the inward push to create that full, rounded decolletage, and the corset holding the camicia in place while smoothing out the rolls that would exist on the typical rubenesque noble Venetian. I also believe that there was some brand of shoulder strap, to help distribute the weight of the costume evenly. Recognizing that this particular style of peascod bodice will be padded and will muffle some of the undulating rolls that naturally occur has also crossed my mind, lending support to the opinion that there is NO corseting going on. Any opinions one way or the other on this? 6. This one is likely a bit of a dopey idea, but I'll ask it anyhow. I have no first hand contact with extant garments of the period, so I am relying on those that have, or have it on good authority. Is it possible that some of these dresses could have been two piece, and not one? It just seems to make more sense to hook-and-eye or point-tie the bodice and skirt together, making them more versatile and easier to wash. Everyone here has had experience wrangling massive amounts of fabric while washing, I can't imagine having to do it historically. Helping to preserve the textile and needlework itself by only washing what is needed rather than dunking the whole thing in seems more logical. They did it with men's wear, why not women's? 7. After staring for hours at various period portraits, I basically came down to the decision to use Punto in Aria for the cuffs and ruff edging, and Netting in a lozenge pattern for the partlet. The netting for the ruff should be lozenge as well, but I am not *that* enthusiastic to make that kind of yardage just yet. Perhaps I will cut my yardage on the _bias_ to make it appear to be lozenge, although I am not certain how netted lacis will tolerate being cut like that. (I have only taught myself punto and getting around to teaching myself netting in the past week) Does anyone concur with these decisions, or have alternate suggestions? Any decent period lacis/buratto patterns out there that would work for the ruff and partlet? 8. Finally, and I'll make this short since I am noticing my rambling verbosity getting out of hand again ;-) The cuffs - attached to the camicia and turned back over the bodice cuff, or pinned independently to the cuff like a suit of ruffs? I think that's enough for now. ;-) Hope I haven't dove too far into the deep end. :-) Thanks for any help anyone can supply. Kathy You talk too much, you laugh too loud, that's the price of love. ~ Brian Ferry ~ --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 12:32:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTHWOA2007085 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:32:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHVj4S004188; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:31:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHXdqq061350; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:33:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9401.mail.yahoo.com (web9401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBTHXaqq061312 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:33:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031229173106.13769.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.123] by web9401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:31:06 PST Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:31:06 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1046.24.4.69.40.1072666878.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Skylights! I believe someone already mentioned those---and I dearly want them as well--but for now---I have 4 sets of spotlights in the 4 corners of my studio/workroom, shining in toward the center over each of the work areas. I use those funny swirl-looking 'energy efficient' bulbs---so I can get quite a bit of light with a lot less energy being used than formerly.(8---100 watt bulbs , used continuously most evenings and part of most days, really adds up on the electrical bill!) Over the jewelry area, I also have smaller high intensity lamp for the really fine close up stuff. I'm afraid that ,lately,my old eyes are needing LOTS of light--even in the daytime:( Albra Diana Habra wrote: Hey everyone! I was hoping to pick your brains on a problem I am having. Namely not having enough light in my sewing room! I have gone searching for bright lamps and cannot seem to find any. All of the halogen lamps are only 300 watts and not very bright and nobody seems to make a lamp that throws enough light to sew by. So what do you have in the way of lighting in your sewing area? Do you have any recommendations as to where I can find brighter lighting? Thanks in advance! -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 12:34:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTHYVA2007098 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:34:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHYD4S004418; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:34:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTHa6qq063012; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:36:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBTHa4qq062988 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:36:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031229173334.13790.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.123] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:33:34 PST Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:33:34 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: Estrella War Class Reminder To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000701c3ce2e$a23eada0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I'm planning on being at Estrella---and I could offer gold bullion embroidery or metal thread basket weave couching classes.Contact me offlist for more info! Albra "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: Hi folks, if anyone is going to Estrella and wants to teach I know the organizer is still trying to fill out her schedule. I will be teaching my Puff & Slash, Gollar, and Shoulder Roll classes again if anyone is interested. Sg (Sorry for the Cross posts) Subject: Estrella War Class Reminder Greetings to all the fabulous people who taught at Estrella War 2003 If you would like to teach again and have not already scheduled a class with me please email me today with your class information. I am especially lacking in Middle Eastern dance classes and brewing classes (and cooking classes). I would also love a silk banner painting class. If you know of anyone who might be willing to teach please have them contact me immediately. (or send me their contact information) The gate book is going to the printers this week and I really need your help to fill out the class schedule! Thanks- Maestra Camilla A&S Class Autocrat Estrella War 2004 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 13:08:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTI8FA2007232 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:08:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTI7n4S007438; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:07:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTI9eqq084134; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:09:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTI9Yqq084070 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:09:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dychap@earthlink.net) Received: from ip-65-78-212-204.elnk.wvfibernet.net ([65.78.212.204] helo=earthlink.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ab1mo-0007PJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:06:39 -0800 Message-ID: <3FF06E02.6020800@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:10:10 -0500 From: Dhannti User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] hundred and one questions References: <20031229172602.98358.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031229172602.98358.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Kathy Page wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I've been lurking for quite some time now, getting the general grip of things. I am a former Confed/Civil War/Vic/Ed seamstress, turned Med/Ren in the past year and a half. I've done some work for small regional museums, did two historical fashion shows and reenactors, aside from my own costuming. >Right now I am working on a scad of things- one in particular is a late period Venetian. I have a current theory about the ruff that occasionally appears in art. Two examples of these would be: http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona/VeronicaFrancoTerzaRimaC1576.jpg >http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona/venetiandebutante.jpg > > > > I am not sure how relevent it is to your inquiry about the ruffs but keep in mind Veronica Franco was a Courtesan. She was born in 1546, died 1591. A somewhat romantic movie about her life called Dangerous Beauty is worth watching. I personally can not locate the pictures or the artist you have found. It is reasonable to think these were sketched at a later date. Considering Venice had a wide range of merchants and imports it would not be farfetched to see french influence on clothing. I am not sure of the ruffs time frame. I think it was late 1580's when QE1 used them. What I know will fit in a thimble. I have many thimbles half full. Di _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 13:31:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTIVDA2007317 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:31:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIT94S009784; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIV2qq099982; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:31:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIV1qq099889 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:31:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.14]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTISF6S023254 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:28:24 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031229101214.059f0190@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:12:31 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: Estrella War Class Reminder In-Reply-To: <000701c3ce2e$a23eada0$6501a8c0@SG01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >Hi folks, if anyone is going to Estrella and wants to teach I know the >organizer is still trying to fill out her schedule. I will be teaching my >Puff & Slash, Gollar, and Shoulder Roll classes again if anyone is >interested. Where? When? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 13:33:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTIXZA2007323 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:33:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIWl4S010081; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:32:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIXkqq001930; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:33:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIV6qq000120 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:31:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.14]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTISF6U023254 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:28:27 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031229101903.05a23710@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:27:27 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] hundred and one questions In-Reply-To: <20031229172602.98358.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >lending support to the opinion that there is NO corseting going on. Any >opinions one way or the other on this? I weigh as much as she does - there has to be something like corseting going on, even if it's just a stiffened dress bodice lining. Also, as I recall, wasn't Elonora of Toledo found to have been buried in an actual corset? OK, not Venetian but close. >making them more versatile and easier to wash. I don't think they could/did wash these garments, one piece or two. I thought that's why they had body linen, chemises, shirts, etc., which could be washed. Using this assumption, I never wash my Ren. Faire court dresses, and they don't stink like they needed to be washed. >8. Finally, and I'll make this short since I am noticing my rambling >verbosity getting out of hand again ;-) The cuffs - attached to the >camicia and turned back over the bodice cuff, or pinned independently to >the cuff like a suit of ruffs? Hard to tell. Some period shirts have enough lace at the cuffs that this would not be necessary, and some have about none. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 13:34:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTIYOA2007326 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:34:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIXi4S010275; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:33:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIZcqq003628; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:35:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIZSqq003480 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:35:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ab2Bb-0005Qd-00; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:32:15 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: , , "H-Costume@Indra. Com" Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:32:12 -0700 Message-ID: <001901c3ce3a$1dfb9d80$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: "'Nola Yergen-Jennings'" Subject: [h-cost] RE: Estrella War Class Reminder-contact information X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sorry, forgot the contact information: Mistress Camilla of Hazelwood Nola Yergen-Jennings ladycamilla@staghold.org -----Original Message----- From: Saragrace T. Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] Subject: FW: Estrella War Class Reminder Hi folks, if anyone is going to Estrella and wants to teach I know the organizer is still trying to fill out her schedule. I will be teaching my Puff & Slash, Gollar, and Shoulder Roll classes again if anyone is interested. Sg (Sorry for the Cross posts) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 13:42:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTIgvA2007345 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:42:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIeW4S010928; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:40:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIgQqq008283; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:42:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIgNqq008256 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:42:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2inik7o.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.80.248] helo=[165.121.81.4]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ab2Ix-0004jW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:39:52 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200312291457.hBTEuKqs069765@net.indra.com> References: <200312291457.hBTEuKqs069765@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:39:48 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: what I got for Christmas... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi Well they are not here yet, but I got a Warren Featherboning attachment to fit my Singer (have one that fits a Domestic machine that I don't have...) AND an instruction book AND a figural trade card! Now to see iffn I can find any samples of Featherboning.... And yes it's waaay to late for the times I currently do, but hey what's another time, and it will fit in nicely with the early whippet racing gear, somehow (OK so I can justify almost anything) And non-costume related gifts, some Puzz 3-D LOTR puzzles and some emerald glass...and this *stupid* cold... Ta Carol, cough, hack, dismal honk... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 13:58:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTIwWA2007379 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:58:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIuu4S012176; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTIwoqq018090; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:58:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14803.mail.yahoo.com (web14803.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.219]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBTIwmqq018070 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:58:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lorijaneleppink@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031229185616.25988.qmail@web14803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.65.146.151] by web14803.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:56:16 PST Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:56:16 -0800 (PST) From: Lori Leppink To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Estrella War Classes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Do you know what the schedule for the German costume classes you mentioned will be? The class schedule on the Estrella War website hasn't been updated since September. I would really like to go to them. Giovanna --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 14:23:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTJNOA2007464 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:23:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJLk4S014981; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:21:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJNbqq034436; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:23:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakemtao01.cox.net (lakemtao01.cox.net [68.1.17.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJNZqq034343 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:23:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.96.201.18]) by lakemtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031229192058.EAPC23168.lakemtao01.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:20:58 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: scissors Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:22:40 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c3ce41$2353dac0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <029301c3cdef$d920f740$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sometimes, when pulling an "all nighter" and my eyes have reached their limit and I just can't see to thread the needle, in desperation I have actually removed the needle, threaded it and then put it back in. Awkward yes, but it works! (And it's sometimes faster than fiddling around with it in place) ::Linda:: You can't always judge by appearances: the early bird may have been up all night. -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier While we are on sewing... since I changed to bifocals a few years ago, it is the dickens to thread my sewing machine needles. Any suggestions on what has worked for you? I used the old silver needle threaders for hand sewing needles and that works. But the light from the sewing machine reflects in my glasses and makes it even harder to thread the needle. For the past few years I have been having my kids thread my sewing machine needle. Any suggestions other than having someone else do it? Penny Ladnier _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 14:30:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTJUvA2007486 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:30:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJT84S015757; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJV3qq039514; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:31:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBTJURqq039069 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:30:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031229192755.22966.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:27:55 PST Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:27:55 -0800 (PST) From: Angela Kessler To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00a901c3cce9$7c928810$56a810ac@Kate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for a pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com My DH would like a jacket of a style we've seen often in Hollywood, but not positive whether it's historical. I think it was popular sometime around 1790-1810, and it's the fashion with the really high fall collar on the jacket, waistcoat, and I'm not sure how many layers. It looks like this may be it in item #WN 212: http://www.patternsoftime.com/pdf/2003/2003regency.pdf but it's hard to tell since the detail's not real good in that picture. Also, I wasn't thinking the front was cutaway like that. Does anyone know anything about this pattern? Patterns of Time in general? Other printed patterns for this style? Or a book that would at least have good historical pictures showing detail of this style? Thanks- Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 14:42:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTJggA2007541 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:42:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJgN4S016843; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJiGqq048289; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:44:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJiCqq048213 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:44:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.193]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6DE23262981 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:41:34 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000901c3ce43$ca636c70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:41:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] hundred and one question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I dont have much time now, will come to you later, but this print you have send the urls of, is not a ruff. This is a standing collar, wich was wired in the edge. It did not have any supportasse or underpropper, it is supposed to stand by itself. Come to you later Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 14:45:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTJjMA2007550 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:45:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJj44S017104; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJkxqq050022; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:46:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJkuqq049935 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:46:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.96.201.18]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031229194421.IILW2192.lakemtao03.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:44:21 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:46:09 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c3ce44$6a15fdf0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031229001816.01fd5950@64.87.54.245> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hBTJkuqq049935 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi all, I would seriously caution against using high-powered halogen lamps in a sewing area. The surface of the fixture gets extremely hot (think surface of the sun) and with the fiber dust associated with textiles, it _could_ lead to a serious fire problem. Also, besides the heat buildup in your workspace, halogen bulbs gobble up kilowatts like there's no tomorrow. If you think regular incandescent bulbs are expensive to run, take a look at you bill after having several halogens going for any length of time. If you must have floor lamps, look for ones that use a florescent bulb instead. In our house I have replaced all the standard bulbs with compact florescent bulbs and I have noticed such an improvement in the quality of light all over the house. Our bill has gone down a bit too. My best recommendation is to install 1x4 or 2x4 florescent fixtures evenly throughout the room. Then, go to an electrical supplier or lighting store and explain what you are doing. They should be able to sell you some tubes that will simply amaze you. *Sometimes* you can find good lamps at the Big Box Home Store, but it's not always a given. The thing to look for is the number written on the end of the tube. It should say 3500 or higher, the higher the better. This number relates to what we know as "warm white" or "cool white" or "daylight" etc. Stay away from cool white, it has the most glare and headaches. They also tend to flicker more than the better bulbs, which I find really irritating when I'm trying to concentrate. If all you have is these three choices, go with the "daylight". Buying good bulbs can be expensive, but if this is for an area that you spend a lot of time in, it is so worth the investment. Cheap florescent lamps can actually cause health problems such as headache and eye strain, and if you don't feel good then you won't enjoy your work/hobby, right? HTH, ::Linda:: Electrician in a former life :o> -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kimiko Small Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 3:33 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room Hi Diana, Just how bright are you looking for? In my sewing room, I have a ceiling fan with 3-65 watt Halogen bulbs in it (gotta have the ceiling fan as this room gets very hot in the summer, AC notwithstanding). I also have a task Ott light (color corrected florescent) that provides spot lighting for my sewing area or wherever I need. I then have three small low-watt halogen counter lights that are enough for my pattern drafting and other work over my storage cabinets (converted kitchen counters). This really works well enough for me, even late at night. So why the mega watt lighting needs? What would you use them for? What do you mean the 300 watt halogens aren't bright enough? I am really scratching my head on this, because the task lights I have are lower watts, but I still do great by them. Otherwise, the only other suggestion I have is to get several halogen work lamps from Home Depot or Lowes or other home lumber store, and place them around the room. The one I am looking at online (Regent Twin Stand Work Light with Tripod) has two 500 watt T-3 double-ended halogen bulbs. My dad used them for his house/carpentry needs, and boy they light up a room. Good luck! Kimiko At 07:01 PM 12/28/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Hey everyone! > >I was hoping to pick your brains on a problem I am having. Namely not >having enough light in my sewing room! I have gone searching for bright >lamps and cannot seem to find any. All of the halogen lamps are only 300 >watts and not very bright and nobody seems to make a lamp that throws >enough light to sew by. > >So what do you have in the way of lighting in your sewing area? Do you >have any recommendations as to where I can find brighter lighting? > >Thanks in advance! > >-- >Diana Habra >www.renaissancefabrics.net >"Everything for the Costumer" Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 14:46:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTJkxA2007558 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:46:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJkf4S017309; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:46:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJmaqq050993; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:48:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJmXqq050972 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:48:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.193]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id EEE4C5EE2A8 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:46:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c3ce44$6ae47180$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:46:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] what i got for christmass. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I am so happy because i got (from myself) Silk designs of the eighteenth century by Nathalie Rothstein. Not the skinny little one from V&A but the complete catalog. Huge huge book with lots and lots of beautifull brocade designs. :-o ;-) :-o ;-) Its my birthday soon, and i have told my partner that i want a membership of the Embroiderers Guild in England for pressent. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 14:59:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTJxSA2007577 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:59:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJx84S018351; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:59:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK12qq059177; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:01:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK0xqq059136 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:01:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A7661903CC; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:58:30 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] what i got for christmass. Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:58:30 -0600 Message-ID: <000701c3ce46$221d1630$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <000f01c3ce44$6ae47180$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Just from what you have shown us on the website I think they might end up paying you to teach...!! Good luck in the new year! Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 1:46 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] what i got for christmass. I am so happy because i got (from myself) Silk designs of the eighteenth century by Nathalie Rothstein. Not the skinny little one from V&A but the complete catalog. Huge huge book with lots and lots of beautifull brocade designs. :-o ;-) :-o ;-) Its my birthday soon, and i have told my partner that i want a membership of the Embroiderers Guild in England for pressent. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 15:00:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTK0OA2007589 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:00:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK064S018456; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK21qq059757; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:02:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK1wqq059715 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:01:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.14]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJxOMa008579 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:59:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031229104330.062d1a90@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:47:11 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: what I got for Christmas... In-Reply-To: References: <200312291457.hBTEuKqs069765@net.indra.com> <200312291457.hBTEuKqs069765@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >Well they are not here yet, but I got a Warren Featherboning attachment to >fit my Singer (have one that fits a Domestic machine that I don't have...) >AND an instruction book AND a figural trade card! >Now to see iffn I can find any samples of Featherboning.... I have some Featherboning. At least the words printed on the side claim it's Featherboning, and the cross-section looks like the cut ends of two quills. How long a sample were you thinking of? You could have a few inches no problem, but the whole piece, at a few feet long, would have to be traded for... CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 15:02:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTK2IA2007608 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:02:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK0h4S018597; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:00:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK2hqq060221; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:02:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK20qq059745 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:02:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.14]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTJxOMc008579 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:59:27 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031229110453.05107620@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:18:00 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Captain Hook's coat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com What 18th century decade(s) does Captain Hook's coat, from the recent Peter Pan film, most look like it's from? I'd guess early to middle 1700s. Bjarne - you'd know. If you haven't seen the film, you can go to www.IMDb.com and search for Peter Pan and follow the links to the photo section from that film. I've decided that I need one of these coats, done up a little more fantasy than realistic. In the film version there are metal bits sewn on both Captain Hook's coats where months of embroidery should go. I may opt for gold-painted lace which I first dyed brass-tarnish green. I hope mine ends up looking like a Victorian theatre costume. The rest of the film is costumed as c.1900. The schoolteacher's dress is the best. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 15:06:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTK6LA2007623 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:06:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK3V4S018869; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:03:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK61qq062317; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:06:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav53.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK5xqq062242 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:05:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:03:22 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav53.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:03:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031229192755.22966.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:01:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Dec 2003 20:03:22.0900 (UTC) FILETIME=[CFFCF540:01C3CE46] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com isn't that Winego's pattern? Patterns of Time is the carrier for a number of pattern companies. I want to say they also have their own line but I'm pretty sure WN is the abbreviation for Winnego which is a company that specializes in this era. I don't do too much regency but that's not a horrible example if that's what you are wondering.RH201 (rocking horse farms) is also a good one but a lot of people don't care for the patterns they make. http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/ is a site that give a lot of opinions on these patterns you might want to see if they have any listed. B~ Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs ----- Original Message ----- > My DH would like a jacket of a style we've seen often > in Hollywood, but not positive whether it's > historical. I think it was popular sometime around > 1790-1810, and it's the fashion with the really high > fall collar on the jacket, waistcoat, and I'm not sure > how many layers. It looks like this may be it in item > #WN 212: > http://www.patternsoftime.com/pdf/2003/2003regency.pdf > > but it's hard to tell since the detail's not real good > in that picture. Also, I wasn't thinking the front > was cutaway like that. > > Does anyone know anything about this pattern? > Patterns of Time in general? Other printed patterns > for this style? Or a book that would at least have > good historical pictures showing detail of this style? > > Thanks- > Angela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 15:09:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTK9uA2007634 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:09:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK784S019310; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK9cqq064660; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:09:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK9Sqq064512 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:09:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip103.207-173-126.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.126.103]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0C546DC9F for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:06:51 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:07:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] hundred and one questions Message-ID: <3FF018EC.7372.12B2EC93@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031229172602.98358.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > 1. That these are not native ruff fashions, but French imports. I > can't find a large enough repository of French portraiture yet to > substantiate this. Does anyone have some suggestions to head me in the > right direction? While there are some similarities to the French clothes (the standing ruff, although it is of a different type than you usually see in French Clothing), the cut of the garments is very definitely Italian. See _Vecellio's Renaissance Costume Book_, put out by Dover books for some engravings done at the time when Veronica Franco lived. The pictures he's done from Italy in the late 16th C are the most accurate. The further from home in time/space he gets, the more "fanciful" the clothing becomes. Also, you can find a book called _The Honest Courtesan_ by Margaret F. Rosenthal which is about Signorina Franco and her writings. > 2. That these engravings are misdated. Does anyone have any > information on the artist Giacomo Franco and the original sources for > the engravings listed above? I would like to find out more about when > and where this art was created. He doesn't show up in Artcyclopedia under that name, unfortunately. The book on Veronica Franco doesn't mention anyone named Giacomo Franco. > 3. I suspect that the artist took creative license in making the > partlet particularly noticeable, along with the weave pattern of the > ruff. It is possible too, that the decorative material was a different > colour, giving the artist reason to make them prominent. I frankly > doubt the latter statement, but won't discount it as a possibility. Is > there anyone out there that has an opinion either way? The partlet was probably white but the weave was often times very ornate and could be embroidered as well, which would give it more texture. I suspect that the engraver was trying to capture a texture rather than a different color. The partlets of this type tend to be white, not colored. > 4. The ruff, IMHO has a supportasse. It sits at a rather curious angle > to be self-supporting, much less taking into account the pervasive > moisture of Venice, I can't see starch being the sole support of this > variation of ruff. If so, how would that supportasse be made, and > attached to the partlet? There are several types of supportasses in this period. Some were of wire and were separate from the ruff and partlet. They were designed to fit under the clothes and sometimes to lace to the clothes themselves (not with "lace" but with lacings.) Some were silk covered pasteboard (such as the ones in the V&A in London.) Those would usually be laced to the dress in the back. > 5. I have had an enthusiastic debate time and again on this theory, so > I'll throw it out here and see what comes of it. I feel that there was > some kind of corseting involved in this period. I am thinking more of > a corselet, utilising tension in the camicia to supply support to the > bust along with a rather firmly attached partlet (to what, I have yet > to conceive that notion)giving the inward push to create that full, > rounded decolletage, and the corset holding the camicia in place while > smoothing out the rolls that would exist on the typical rubenesque > noble Venetian. I also believe that there was some brand of shoulder > strap, to help distribute the weight of the costume evenly. > Recognizing that this particular style of peascod bodice will be > padded and will muffle some of the undulating rolls that naturally > occur has also crossed my mind, lending support to the opinion that > there is NO corseting going on. Any opinions one way or the other on > this? While there is evidence for corseting earlier in the period (such as the Spanish influenced Milanese clothing, like that worn by Eleanor of Toledo), the Venetians supposedly did not use corsetting. However, the bodies (especially of courtesans such as Signorina Franco) were supposed to be quite large/hefty/zaftig which was considered "voluptuous." So the women were often times wrapped in layers of padding to make the body more "voluptuous". This contributed to the odd shape that the dresses in Italy (compared to the rest of Europe) of the time had. As to a shoulderstrap, I suspect it is there but hidden by the floofy stuff. In the one where there is more dress seen, you can see what looks like part of the shoulderseam on the L side disappearing down under the L sleeve, then appearing again with the same "trim" to go around the front of the decolletage. > 6. This one is likely a bit of a dopey idea, but I'll ask it anyhow. I > have no first hand contact with extant garments of the period, so I am > relying on those that have, or have it on good authority. Is it > possible that some of these dresses could have been two piece, and not > one? It just seems to make more sense to hook-and-eye or point-tie the > bodice and skirt together, making them more versatile and easier to > wash. Everyone here has had experience wrangling massive amounts of > fabric while washing, I can't imagine having to do it historically. > Helping to preserve the textile and needlework itself by only washing > what is needed rather than dunking the whole thing in seems more > logical. They did it with men's wear, why not women's? Dresses were not generally "washed" as we would think of it. The undergarments were used to keep the outer dress clean and smell free. Those undergarments were then taken down to the river to be washed. (We know this from descriptions of the time as well as artwork from the time.) The dresses themselves would be spot cleaned as needed, often using fuller's earth as a "dry cleaning" material. It would soak up oils which had gotten on the dress and then would be brushed away. Any residual "odor" was either ignored or would come out while the dress was "aired." While it is possible that the bodice and skirt were separate, from looking at the inventories of the time and from the few extant dresses we have (see Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620_ for example), in the late 16th C they were generally sewn together as one piece. (There is some evidence for separate bodice and skirts, such as in the facsimile with translation: _Alcega's 1589 Tailor's Pattern Book_ and occasional references in inventories. But the "dress" seems to be more common.) > 7. After staring for hours at various period portraits, I basically > came down to the decision to use Punto in Aria for the cuffs and ruff > edging, and Netting in a lozenge pattern for the partlet. The netting > for the ruff should be lozenge as well, but I am not *that* > enthusiastic to make that kind of yardage just yet. The lace from the period tends to be needle lace (reticella and punto in Aria) but it could be combined with bobbin lace and/or cutwork in the same piece. Lots of beautiful examples, both in pattern books and extant, most of which seem to be Italian. See Margaret Abegg's _Apropos Patterns_, Anne Kraatz _Lace History and Fashion_, Janine Montupet and Ghilsaine Schoeller's _Lace The Elegant Web_, and Santina Levey's _Lace A History_. Netting is seen in partlets but usually not filled in like you see with fillet lace (which it sounds like you are learning). And they tended to be of larger thread (large enough so that you can see the knots in the gold thread.) Most of the fillet lace type of netting seems to be more for home decoration. > 8. Finally, and I'll make this short since I am noticing my rambling > verbosity getting out of hand again ;-) The cuffs - attached to the > camicia and turned back over the bodice cuff, or pinned independently > to the cuff like a suit of ruffs? Could be either. I suspect that more elaborate lace was used as "suits of wrist ruffs" rather than permanently attached. > I think that's enough for now. ;-) Hope I haven't dove too far into > the deep end. :-) Sounds like you are going just as deep as many of us on this list tend to do. You'll probably get several different opinions on things unless people are too busy with their "non-list" lives. Hopefully this has helped. ;) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 15:19:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTKJXA2007679 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:19:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKGh4S020373; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:16:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKJCqq070960; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:19:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKJBqq070946 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:19:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.14]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKGbC6012078 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:16:38 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031229121616.052d74c0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:16:17 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Captain Hook's coat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com What 18th century decade(s) does Captain Hook's coat, from the recent Peter Pan film, most look like it's from? I'd guess early to middle 1700s. Bjarne - you'd know. If you haven't seen the film, you can go to www.IMDb.com and search for Peter Pan and follow the links to the photo section from that film. I've decided that I need one of these coats, done up a little more fantasy than realistic. In the film version there are metal bits sewn on both Captain Hook's coats where months of embroidery should go. I may opt for gold-painted lace which I first dyed brass-tarnish green. I hope mine ends up looking like a Victorian theatre costume. The rest of the film is costumed as c.1900. The schoolteacher's dress is the best. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 15:30:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTKUfA2007731 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:30:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKRq4S021598; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:27:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKULqq079358; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:30:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKUIqq079330 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:30:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip103.207-173-126.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.126.103]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13B386AB58 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:27:45 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:27:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room Message-ID: <3FF01DCF.18204.12C605FA@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000001c3ce44$6a15fdf0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031229001816.01fd5950@64.87.54.245> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > I would seriously caution against using high-powered halogen lamps in > a sewing area. The surface of the fixture gets extremely hot (think > surface of the sun) and with the fiber dust associated with textiles, > it _could_ lead to a serious fire problem. Also, besides the heat > buildup in your workspace, halogen bulbs gobble up kilowatts like > there's no tomorrow. If you think regular incandescent bulbs are > expensive to run, take a look at you bill after having several > halogens going for any length of time. I agree with this. This past year there have been several "drives" to get people to stop using halogens by having (at the "drive") replacement bulbs and fixtures to trade for the halogens. Energy usage and fire danger are two reasons for them being dangerous. It's too bad that they are so good about putting out light. None of the "replacements" come close to that intensity of light. If you must have floor lamps, > look for ones that use a florescent bulb instead. In our house I have > replaced all the standard bulbs with compact florescent bulbs and I > have noticed such an improvement in the quality of light all over the > house. Our bill has gone down a bit too. Compact florescents (especially if you can get the "full spectrum" ones) seem to work pretty well. > My best recommendation is to install 1x4 or 2x4 florescent fixtures > evenly throughout the room. That's what I had put into my sewing room, with a swing arm lamp (the ones which are usually quite inexpensive and use regular or compact fluorescent bulbs) behind me over my shoulder when I'm doing something that needs more concentrated light (like fine embroidery or trying to determine what the weave structure of a piece of fabric is.) > Stay away from cool white, it has the most glare and headaches. > They also tend to flicker more than the better bulbs, which I find > really irritating when I'm trying to concentrate. If all you have is > these three choices, go with the "daylight". If you can find it, full spectrum is the best. (It can also help with Seasonal Affective Disorder in the winter.) > Buying good bulbs can be expensive, but if this is for an area that > you spend a lot of time in, it is so worth the investment. Cheap > florescent lamps can actually cause health problems such as headache > and eye strain, and if you don't feel good then you won't enjoy your > work/hobby, right? I've lived in this house for more than 10 years. We've needed to replace my overhead fluorescents only twice in that length of time. And I leave the lights on constantly. (Fluorescents use the most energy when they are first turned on to start them up. After that, they barely draw anything. For this reason, some experts have said that if you are not going to leave the light off for at least 8 hours, you might as well leave them on all the time.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 15:31:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTKVtA2007740 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:31:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKSL4S021625; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:28:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKUqqq079689; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:30:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKUmqq079657 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:30:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from [192.168.167.43] (helo=wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ab3zs-0008S4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:28:16 -0500 Message-ID: <32322860.1072729696709.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:28:16 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: scissors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Carol wrote: > Scissors are thought to get duller faster if you use them to cut paper (I >don't know if this is true or not). I've been wondering about this for a while. I know that it's often claimed that paper dulls good scissors, but has anyone ever run across any hard evidence one way or the other? Or is this an Urban Sewing Legend? >More importantly, paper scissors are often >not cared for very well, and as "lesser" scissors might be used to cut a thin >bit of wire, they might hit a staple, etc. This causes nicks in the blade >that, when cutting fabric, will skip cutting a thread. When cutting a thin >silk, it's REALLY maddening! But scissors with nicks in the blades will still >cut most paper just fine. Now THOSE are really _good_ points. I remember hearing once (again, this may just be a legend :) that someone took a survey on the question: "What's the one thing you remember your mother always saying?" Some incredibly high percentage (like 70%?) of people answered with "Not my good sewing scissors!" (As usual, I had to be different: it's "Brush your hair, dear.") ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 15:56:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTKu0A2007880 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:56:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKsQ4S024117; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:54:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKutqq096803; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:56:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKurqq096721 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:56:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.46.43ff20f6 (17079); Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:54:14 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <46.43ff20f6.2d21ee75@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:54:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com, Costuming@yahoogroups.com, RenaissanceFaires2@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] more ebay sales X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Here are some of the items I have listed on ebay that are costume/historical related. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2975240678&category=19255&r d=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2975244834&category=19255&r d=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2975249432&category=19255&r d=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2975257047&category=19255&r d=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2975257047&category=19255&r d=1 I also have a few non-period related items up for sale. Also, I'll be listing some vintage jewelry from the 1920-1940 over the next few weeks, and a couple of period books as well. Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 15:58:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTKw3A2007888 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:58:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKuP4S024355; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:56:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKwuqq098211; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:58:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTKwrqq098142 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:58:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.183.24517dc4 (17079) for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:56:15 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <183.24517dc4.2d21eeee@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:56:14 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margot Andersons Elizabethan lady pattern? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/29/2003 12:49:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, ivycircle@yahoo.com writes: Has anyone heard of a sale date for the second edition? Since hearing great things about the pattern I have been waiting a few months but still no update on the website. Hey, Margot? What about it? Inquiring minds want to know.....(me included!) Laura www.guildofstaugustine.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 16:03:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTL3MA2007902 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:03:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTL0Y4S024651; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:00:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTL34qq000942; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:03:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTL32qq000849 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:03:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.e6.4485fd66 (25914) for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:00:17 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:00:17 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/29/2003 2:29:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com writes: Or a book that would at least have good historical pictures showing detail of this style? Unfortunately, the definitive book on menswear of this period has yet to be written. Even Waugh's "Cut of Men's Clothes" gives this period short shrift. Hard to tell from the pattern illustration, but it looks like it lacks the other characteristic of coats of this period, which is the "M" notch lapel. I used the 1805 quarter scale pattern in Hill and Bucknell's "Patterns of Fashion" as my base to make my own pattern for my husband. The fit isn't perfect, but the appearance is pretty good. These coats were generally not worn buttoned, so you have a little leeway. Best source is to look at portraits, especially Ingres's drawings and paintings. There was a great catalogue published a few years ago to accompany the Ingres exhibit, and his drawings show great details. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 16:04:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTL4XA2007905 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:04:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTL2x4S024851; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:02:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTL5Uqq002445; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:05:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTL5Qqq002388 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:05:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.193]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 92E8A5EE1E0 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:02:51 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001601c3ce4f$24059630$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:02:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 100 questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com 2. That these engravings are misdated. Does anyone have any information on the artist Giacomo Franco and the original sources for the engravings listed above? I would like to find out more about when and where this art was created. Not knowing the artist, but it is towards 1600 (my guess) 3. I suspect that the artist took creative license in making the partlet particularly noticeable, along with the weave pattern of the ruff. It is possible too, that the decorative material was a different colour, giving the artist reason to make them prominent. I frankly doubt the latter statement, but won't discount it as a possibility. Is there anyone out there that has an opinion either way? My guess would be that it could be embroidered pattern, and maybe also beaded pattern. I dont think it would have ben other colours than white, like the pointed lace wich goes in the edge of the standing collar. The lace also has spangels attached in the points, these could be silver or gold. It was much used to add spangels into lace. It was worked into the lace, while making the lace. 4. The ruff, IMHO has a supportasse. It sits at a rather curious angle to be self-supporting, much less taking into account the pervasive moisture of Venice, I can't see starch being the sole support of this variation of ruff. If so, how would that supportasse be made, and attached to the partlet? As i told you earlyer, this is a wired collar. There is wire sewed all along the edge where the lace is attached. It would have ben starched as well, so that it gets as stiff as possible, to stand alone. 5. I have had an enthusiastic debate time and again on this theory, so I'll throw it out here and see what comes of it. I feel that there was some kind of corseting involved in this period. I am thinking more of a corselet, utilising tension in the camicia to supply support to the bust along with a rather firmly attached partlet (to what, I have yet to conceive that notion)giving the inward push to create that full, rounded decolletage, and the corset holding the camicia in place while smoothing out the rolls that would exist on the typical rubenesque noble Venetian. I also believe that there was some brand of shoulder strap, to help distribute the weight of the costume evenly. Recognizing that this particular style of peascod bodice will be padded and will muffle some of the undulating rolls that naturally occur has also crossed my mind, lending support to the opinion that there is NO corseting going on. Any opinions one way or the other on this? Corset there is, definately! 6. This one is likely a bit of a dopey idea, but I'll ask it anyhow. I have no first hand contact with extant garments of the period, so I am relying on those that have, or have it on good authority. Is it possible that some of these dresses could have been two piece, and not one? It just seems to make more sense to hook-and-eye or point-tie the bodice and skirt together, making them more versatile and easier to wash. Everyone here has had experience wrangling massive amounts of fabric while washing, I can't imagine having to do it historically. Helping to preserve the textile and needlework itself by only washing what is needed rather than dunking the whole thing in seems more logical. They did it with men's wear, why not women's? I am no expert for this period, but i would say yes, it would be parted in bodice and skirt. 7. After staring for hours at various period portraits, I basically came down to the decision to use Punto in Aria for the cuffs and ruff edging, and Netting in a lozenge pattern for the partlet. The netting for the ruff should be lozenge as well, but I am not *that* enthusiastic to make that kind of yardage just yet. Perhaps I will cut my yardage on the _bias_ to make it appear to be lozenge, although I am not certain how netted lacis will tolerate being cut like that. (I have only taught myself punto and getting around to teaching myself netting in the past week) Does anyone concur with these decisions, or have alternate suggestions? Any decent period lacis/buratto patterns out there that would work for the ruff and partlet? Do you mean that you would make the lace for yourself? Bobbin lace? I have a beautifull pointed renaissance pattern you could have, if you like! 8. Finally, and I'll make this short since I am noticing my rambling verbosity getting out of hand again ;-) The cuffs - attached to the camicia and turned back over the bodice cuff, or pinned independently to the cuff like a suit of ruffs? They would have ben pinned or perhaps sewed to the sleave, but only lightly sewed, because they should frequently be washed and starched. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 16:13:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTLDZA2007930 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:13:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLC24S025833; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLEWqq008181; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:14:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLETqq008126 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:14:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.193]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E30847FF6D for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:11:56 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002a01c3ce50$69e90410$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031229110453.05107620@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Captain Hook's coat Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:12:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi! I think i have seen some scenes from this movie. I would say that Captain Hooks outfit is turning of the century, late 17th century early 1700. Sounds like a lot of fun for you! Good Luck! And happy newyear Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 8:18 PM Subject: [h-cost] Captain Hook's coat > What 18th century decade(s) does Captain Hook's coat, from the recent Peter > Pan film, most look like it's from? I'd guess early to middle > 1700s. Bjarne - you'd know. If you haven't seen the film, you can go to > www.IMDb.com and search for Peter Pan and follow the links to the photo > section from that film. > > I've decided that I need one of these coats, done up a little more fantasy > than realistic. In the film version there are metal bits sewn on both > Captain Hook's coats where months of embroidery should go. I may opt for > gold-painted lace which I first dyed brass-tarnish green. I hope mine ends > up looking like a Victorian theatre costume. > > The rest of the film is costumed as c.1900. The schoolteacher's dress is > the best. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 16:18:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTLIpA2007946 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:18:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK0r4S018621; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:00:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTK3Jqq060591; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:03:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40104.mail.yahoo.com (web40104.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBTK2Jqq059929 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:02:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031229195943.37560.qmail@web40104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.6.8] by web40104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:59:43 PST Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:59:43 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Margot Andersons Elizabethan lady pattern? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Has anyone heard of a sale date for the second edition? Since hearing great things about the pattern I have been waiting a few months but still no update on the website. Thanks Again, Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 16:19:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTLJeA2007953 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:19:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLI84S026439; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:18:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLKdqq012044; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:20:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLKaqq012027 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:20:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.193]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C6A947FFF4 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:18:04 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004001c3ce51$45a0ba20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031229192755.22966.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:18:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Dear Angela. Dont know of these particular patterns you refer to. But there also is: Norah Waughs The Cut of Mens Clothes, wich has very good pattern drafts. But you have to scale them up. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Kessler" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 8:27 PM Subject: [h-cost] looking for a pattern > My DH would like a jacket of a style we've seen often > in Hollywood, but not positive whether it's > historical. I think it was popular sometime around > 1790-1810, and it's the fashion with the really high > fall collar on the jacket, waistcoat, and I'm not sure > how many layers. It looks like this may be it in item > #WN 212: > http://www.patternsoftime.com/pdf/2003/2003regency.pdf > > but it's hard to tell since the detail's not real good > in that picture. Also, I wasn't thinking the front > was cutaway like that. > > Does anyone know anything about this pattern? > Patterns of Time in general? Other printed patterns > for this style? Or a book that would at least have > good historical pictures showing detail of this style? > > Thanks- > Angela > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 16:28:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTLStA2008006 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:28:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLRJ4S027277; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:27:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLTnqq017943; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:29:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBTLTmqq017934 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:29:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031229212716.85407.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.123] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:27:16 PST Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:27:16 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <32322860.1072729696709.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Well, in my experience, it has NOT been an Urban Legend that scissors will dull if you use them to cut paper. When I was little I DID use my first pair of nice scissors for cutting paper(I was 10)--and sure enough, after a few times they did'nt slide thru the the fabric as nicely as they had before. And ,of course, once my little brother got ahold of them and used them to cut wire on one of his 'electrical experiements' , they were thoroughly ruined . We both got quite a lecture from my father(my mother was the sewer---I guess Dad had learned his lessons well:) Albra Chris Laning wrote: Carol wrote: > Scissors are thought to get duller faster if you use them to cut paper (I >don't know if this is true or not). I've been wondering about this for a while. I know that it's often claimed that paper dulls good scissors, but has anyone ever run across any hard evidence one way or the other? Or is this an Urban Sewing Legend? >More importantly, paper scissors are often >not cared for very well, and as "lesser" scissors might be used to cut a thin >bit of wire, they might hit a staple, etc. This causes nicks in the blade >that, when cutting fabric, will skip cutting a thread. When cutting a thin >silk, it's REALLY maddening! But scissors with nicks in the blades will still >cut most paper just fine. Now THOSE are really _good_ points. I remember hearing once (again, this may just be a legend :) that someone took a survey on the question: "What's the one thing you remember your mother always saying?" Some incredibly high percentage (like 70%?) of people answered with "Not my good sewing scissors!" (As usual, I had to be different: it's "Brush your hair, dear.") ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 16:40:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTLeEA2008033 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:40:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLag4S028126; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:36:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLdDqq023633; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:39:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLdBqq023612 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:39:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.14]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLaZtU013322 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:36:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031229132852.05848200@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:35:29 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Captain Hook's coat In-Reply-To: <002a01c3ce50$69e90410$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <4.3.1.2.20031229110453.05107620@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >I think i have seen some scenes from this movie. >I would say that Captain Hooks outfit is turning of the century, late 17th >century early 1700. That estimate goes with the wig and hat he wears. >Sounds like a lot of fun for you! My coat will not be anything like your fine court coats. Mine will probably require that I prematurely age the garment before I ever wear it. I think I know where I can get some faded velvet curtains I can use for the fabric. >And happy newyear Happy new year to you too. May you never run out of silk thread in the middle of a flower. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 16:40:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTLegA2008036 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:40:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLdC4S028323; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:39:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLfhqq025269; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:41:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTLfcqq025188 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:41:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.10e.2a9798d2 (17079) for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:38:57 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <10e.2a9798d2.2d21f8f1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:38:57 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Captain Hook's coat To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/29/2003 1:37:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, kayta@frys.com writes: My coat will not be anything like your fine court coats. Mine will probably require that I prematurely age the garment before I ever wear it. I think I know where I can get some faded velvet curtains I can use for the fabric. I don't know about the rest of us, but MY curiosity is piqued! Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 17:03:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTM3LA2008092 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:03:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTM1m4S000442; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:01:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTM4Gqq039685; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:04:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBTM4Fqq039658 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:04:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031229220142.13440.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.123] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:01:42 PST Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:01:42 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] ancient textiles book on ebay To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20031223085737.00c124c8@pop.surewest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Well, thank you's to Katy and Joan for mentioning this on the List---it looks like I shall be the proud (broke) owner of this book---which I had actually been looking for for awhile. So, while I may now be broke--I am very happy:) Albra Joan Jurancich wrote: I bought the English edition of this book ("Ancient Danish Textiles from Bogs and Burials: A Comparative Study of Costume and Iron Age Textiles") shortly after it came out in 1980 (ISBN 87-480-0312-3). It's a wonderful book. I periodically re-read it just because it's fascinating. And I still want to try weaving on a warp-weighted loom. I remember seeing the original Danish edition (from a library copy) and wanting it in English. So far the bid is up to $76 (US). At 05:22 PM 12/22/2003 -0500, you wrote: >There is a book I can across on ebay on "ancient danish textiles" The >price it cheap, not a period I am interested in but thought some of you >might be: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=362&item=2583025807 > >Katy > >Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian >vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 17:12:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTMC8A2008114 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:12:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTM9L4S001150; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:09:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTMBrqq044649; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:11:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTMBnqq044543 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:11:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.a4.413566a6 (3940) for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:09:07 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:09:07 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/29/2003 4:18:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: But there also is: Norah Waughs The Cut of Mens Clothes, wich has very good pattern drafts. But you have to scale them up. Alas! The only pattern she has from this period is a greatcoat--great if you want a greatcoat (heh, heh) but not if you want a tailcoat. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 17:29:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTMTUA2008141 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:29:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTMRw4S002749; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:27:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTMUQqq056212; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:30:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTMUOqq056190 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:30:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQO00538H2E85@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:27:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:25:15 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room In-reply-to: <3FF01DCF.18204.12C605FA@localhost> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031229141159.00b0a4c8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <000001c3ce44$6a15fdf0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> <5.2.1.1.0.20031229001816.01fd5950@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com To clarify the halogen bulbs I am speaking of, they are new kind that are fully enclosed. Westinghouse Halogen Halomax, 60 watt soft white bulbs. 900 lumens, 60 watts energy used, 3000 hours. I found them at Lowes, buy 2 get 1 free package. I originally had put in florescent bulbs into the sockets to replace the original lamps, but the florescent were too yellow in coloring which put a ghastly shade of yellow over everything. While they are a little warmer in heat than the florescent bulbs, they don't give off as much heat as regular lamps do. I just put them in a few days ago, so I will let you know how much more energy they draw from the electrical bill later. But they are a nice white light. With all the talk about color corrected florescent lamps, try this web site. http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/. They have industrial and home model florescent lamps, including types that look to be the same as Ott lights, but at a lower price. And they discount if you buy bulk. I used them for a photo company I worked for, that needs color corrected lamps all the time. Someday if I can get the right electrical work, I will add in some more color corrected lamps over the sewing area, but because I need the ceiling fan in here, I had to go with the halogen bulbs for now. To be honest, my computer puts off more heat than the lamps are right now. But my Ott lamp is what I use most for close up work. And I don't use any floor lamps. I need what little floor space I have for moving around in. And one other thing to help with lights, a white or light colored walls and ceiling paint. While I want to add color to my room, having white walls in here really does help with the light situation. And you can get bright white ceiling paint to help reflect more light around the room. hth Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 17:53:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTMr7A2008211 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:53:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTMoF4S004903; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:50:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTMqhqq070993; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:52:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTMqgqq070983 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:52:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQO0011CI3KKU@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:50:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:47:28 -0800 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031229144623.023a3ba8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ebay book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com If someone is really interested in paying for this, as I am not as much as I want it. I hate having a budget sometimes. Roy Strong TUDOR AND JACOBEAN PORTRAITS http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3576551852&category=7703 Good luck! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 20:12:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU1CdA2008609 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:12:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1Aa4S016647; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:10:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1D3qq051737; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:13:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1D2qr051713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:13:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBU18APp017400 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:08:10 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:08:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FF0D0C9.2000809@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:11:37 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors References: <32322860.1072729696709.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <32322860.1072729696709.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Chris Laning wrote: > I've been wondering about this for a while. I know that it's often claimed that paper dulls good scissors, but has anyone ever run across any hard evidence one way or the other? Or is this an Urban Sewing Legend? Wood fibers are fairly rough, on the micro level. That's why it's recommended to never wipe your glasses with paper towels, facial tissue, etc. Also why facial tissue will scratch your nose over time, if you've got inflamed skin from a cold. Hence the sale of special cleaning cloths for glasses (although an all-cotton towel works great) and cotton-fiber facial tissues (or paper ones loaded with lotion, to grease the way.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent And so, faced with shocking lack of documentation, I am forced to invent some of my own. -- Cecil Adams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 20:17:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU1HKA2008617 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:17:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1FC4S016932; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1Hkqq053696; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:17:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf26.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf26.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1Hiqq053657 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:17:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Received: from laptop ([68.185.168.247]) by mxsf26.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.10/8.12.8) with SMTP id hBU1ERSp063349 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:14:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Message-ID: <000401c3ce72$44ad2f60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: References: <200312292231.hBTMV7qr056723@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:14:26 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: what I got for Christmas & scissors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Just got through the backlog from being gone and thought I'd throw in my few cents... As for Christmas, the only sewing related thing was the book "Fine Machine Embroidery", which after reading through about half of it just looks like so much fun! I also got a Barnes & Noble gift card, so we'll see what may be gotten with that. And for scissors and hubbies - well, mine was raised by a sewing mom, so he came trained ;-) I've never had to tell him to stay away from my sewing scissors! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 20:24:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU1O6A2008637 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:24:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1M04S017327; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1OXqq056512; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:24:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1OUqq056484 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:24:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from margo@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a25.directcon.net [207.215.72.25]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hBU1RO601468; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:27:24 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031229171809.011e4a80@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:18:09 -0800 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margot Andersons Elizabethan lady pattern? In-Reply-To: <183.24517dc4.2d21eeee@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 03:56 PM 12/29/2003 EST, MysticsLady9@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/29/2003 12:49:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, >ivycircle@yahoo.com writes: >Has anyone heard of a sale date for the second edition? Since hearing great >things about the pattern I have been waiting a few months but still no update >on the website. I'm sorry for the delay. We have experienced cash flow problems due to a wholesale customer's having cancelled a large order, which was allocated to pay for the reprinting. Not unreasonably, the printing company refused to proceed until they were paid. We have managed to obtain funds from another source and the patterns will be on their way soon. In the meantime, I have also completed the second edition/upgrade of the Underpinnings and Accesories packages and we are having them printed as well. Thanks for your patience, Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 20:39:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU1dbA2008685 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:39:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1cs4S018252; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:38:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1fMqq063931; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:41:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1fLqq063903 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:41:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E7B425CE for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:47:45 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FF0D705.8060801@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:38:13 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors References: <32322860.1072729696709.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> <3FF0D0C9.2000809@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <3FF0D0C9.2000809@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > > claimed that paper dulls good scissors, but has anyone ever run across > any hard evidence one way or the other? Or is this an Urban Sewing > Legend? I do notice the difference between sharp fabric scissors, and fabric scissors that get used to cut up nearly a ream of paper (ex roomie, grr!) and scissors that have been freshly sharpened. So, no, it's not an urban legend. > > Wood fibers are fairly rough, on the micro level. That's why it's > recommended to never wipe your glasses with paper towels, facial tissue, > etc. Also why facial tissue will scratch your nose over time, if you've > got inflamed skin from a cold. Also why you don't want to use paper towels to wipe off the bed of your scanner, and get a pack of those special eyeglass wipes instead. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 20:41:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU1fGA2008698 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:41:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1dN4S018281; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:39:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1fvqq064212; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:41:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU1fPqq063972 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:41:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-36-028.jps.net ([209.165.36.28] helo=pavilion) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ab8qQ-0006Np-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:38:51 -0800 Message-ID: <000e01c3ce76$c60fe8a0$1c24a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3.0.6.32.20031229171809.011e4a80@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margot Andersons Elizabethan lady pattern? Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:46:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com errghhh! When things like this happen to me I can only think how much more useful I'd be with my time and money if I were Paris Hilton! Hang in there!!! Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margo Anderson" To: "Historical Costume" ; Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margot Andersons Elizabethan lady pattern? > At 03:56 PM 12/29/2003 EST, MysticsLady9@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 12/29/2003 12:49:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, > >ivycircle@yahoo.com writes: > >Has anyone heard of a sale date for the second edition? Since hearing great > >things about the pattern I have been waiting a few months but still no > update > >on the website. > > I'm sorry for the delay. We have experienced cash flow problems due to a > wholesale customer's having cancelled a large order, which was allocated to > pay for the reprinting. Not unreasonably, the printing company refused to > proceed until they were paid. We have managed to obtain funds from another > source and the patterns will be on their way soon. > > In the meantime, I have also completed the second edition/upgrade of the > Underpinnings and Accesories packages and we are having them printed as well. > > Thanks for your patience, > > Margo Anderson > > > "One Tough Costumer" > > www.margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 21:24:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU2ONA2008779 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:24:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU2Ne4S021327; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:23:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU2QBqq086059; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:26:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU2Q9qq086043 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:26:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-57-039.jps.net ([209.165.57.39] helo=pavilion) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ab9Xi-0000O4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:23:34 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01c3ce7d$04baf120$2739a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031229144623.023a3ba8@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ebay book Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:31:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hBU2ONA2008779 Thanks Kimiko for the heads up! thinking, thinking.... I do need to go on a diet anyway. :).... Just had a look and Barnes and Noble has the same book with a 1980 publishing date at $250. I wonder if this book might have more color in it as the 1969 edition seems to be mostly black and white. Or am I incorrect here? I don't think I'll be bidding, but definetly will be ILLing this one! Also had a look under Roy Strong on www.bookfinder.com and there are quite a few more books of interest there! Lisa Sinervo - wishing I was Paris Hilton at the moment! www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:47 PM Subject: [h-cost] ebay book > If someone is really interested in paying for this, as I am not as much as > I want it. I hate having a budget sometimes. > > Roy Strong TUDOR AND JACOBEAN PORTRAITS > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3576551852&category=7703 > > Good luck! > > Kimiko > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 21:52:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU2qaA2008828 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:52:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU2om4S023443; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:50:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU2rLqq098549; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:53:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU2rJqq098539 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:53:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ab9y0-00034g-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:50:44 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:50:59 -0700 Message-ID: <001f01c3ce7f$c16cd750$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose gown sleeve-anyone else tried it? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hBU2qaA2008828 Has anyone else tried to reproduce the loose gown short sleeve on page 45 & 46 sucessfully? I drafted, sewed it up-blech. Then I just blew her pattern up.same thing. What was she thinking? Besides the obvious stuff like completely mismatched pieces, the shape produced looks very little like the actual sleeve. Every time I think I will save some time using her patterns, I am disappointed. Does anyone know if she really sewed at all? Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 22:05:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU353A2008853 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:05:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU3354S024186; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:03:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU35bqq004532; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:05:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from obsidian.spiritone.com (obsidian.spiritone.com [216.99.193.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU35Zqr004500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:05:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by obsidian.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBU3FSEd003070 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:15:28 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose gownsleeve-anyone else tried it? Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:06:03 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001f01c3ce7f$c16cd750$6501a8c0@SG01> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I did that one too, and didn't like the look of the sleeve either. The width simply didn't work. Finally I rounded it more, and it came out looking like the ones in Alcega. Since he was making them at the time, I suspect he is a better source. Regina > > What was she thinking? Besides the obvious stuff like completely > mismatched > pieces, the shape produced looks very little like the actual > sleeve. Every > time I think I will save some time using her patterns, I am disappointed. > > > > Does anyone know if she really sewed at all? > > > > Sg > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 22:21:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU3LtA2008894 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:21:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU3Io4S025022; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU3LNqq011530; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:21:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU3LCqq011439 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:21:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AbAOz-00016C-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:18:37 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loosegownsleeve-anyone else tried it? Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:18:52 -0700 Message-ID: <002401c3ce83$a6a11cc0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I just took a quick look at Algacea and don't see anything like the sleeve puff except maybe on 70a: Silk gown for a woman. Which one are you speaking of. Also I am curious if the stylized loose gown Arnold shows on page 45 (Primariae mulieris...Belgas) sleeve is exaggerated. The rest of the drawing doesn't seem to be, so I am wondering if that sleeve cap is. It'd be fun to do....I think I like it better than the round cap... opinions? And just what are those things that look like braids hanging on either side of her head and round her neck....? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 22:29:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU3TBA2008918 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:29:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU3RK4S025563; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:27:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU3Tpqq015070; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:29:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU3Toqq015061 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:29:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-45-162.jps.net ([209.165.45.162] helo=pavilion) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AbAXK-0005yi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:27:14 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01c3ce85$e8759ca0$a22da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:35:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Anyone tried a beaver bucket? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hBU3TBA2008918 I'm passing on book buying at the moment as I need a good washtub for my starch house re-creation (Yes, I'd still like to do a tailor's shop but that I'm going to have to grow into - I'm starting smaller). Beaver buckets http://www.beaverbuckets.com/WashTubs.htm has a very nice oak washtub for $250 - yes I do need to diet!!! But I was wondering if anyone has ever used such a tub before. Anyone know of any better prices? I would like a nice quality one. Thanks, Lisa Sinervo costume content - the bucket will be used for washing dirty ruffs! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 22:34:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU3YVA2008928 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:34:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU3VM4S025881; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:31:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU3Xuqq016886; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:33:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBU3Xsqq016827 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:33:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCi0XzBavhCfsE7g1aaWVCAS1v47OJto/6Q==">; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:30:57 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JJL9ZNC4; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:30:57 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:30:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose gownsleeve-anyone else tried it? Message-ID: <20031229.213005.-489645.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-10 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com According to Jean Hunnisett (who I had the pleasure of playing chauffeur and general Friendly Native Guide for on her last visit to the States), Janet Arnold was much more of researcher and theoretician than an actual costumer. In many cases Janet would do research and come up with ideas and then advise on designs that Jean would then make up. Apparently part of the reason they had a 'falling out' was over the theoretical versus practical aspect of recreating costumes- each lady was very knowledgable and opinionated and had her own ideas which occasionally clashed. Ah, to be in Costumer's Heaven eavesdropping on their discussions now! Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 22:41:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU3fDA2008945 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:41:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU3dN4S026406; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:39:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU3fuqq020290; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:41:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out011.verizon.net (out011pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU3fsqq020280 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:41:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([141.152.155.152]) by out011.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20031230033918.GRZO26708.out011.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:39:18 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Anyone tried a beaver bucket? Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:39:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <000c01c3ce85$e8759ca0$a22da5d1@pavilion> Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out011.verizon.net from [141.152.155.152] at Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:39:17 -0600 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 10:35 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Anyone tried a beaver bucket? > > > I'm passing on book buying at the moment as I need a good washtub > for my starch house re-creation (Yes, I'd still like to do a > tailor's shop but that I'm going to have to grow into - I'm > starting smaller). Beaver buckets > http://www.beaverbuckets.com/WashTubs.htm has a very nice oak > washtub for $250 - yes I do need to diet!!! But I was wondering > if anyone has ever used such a tub before. Anyone know of any > better prices? I would like a nice quality one. > > Thanks, > > Lisa Sinervo > > costume content - the bucket will be used for washing dirty ruffs! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume I have used similiar tubs for doing dishes at work. There are of course certain maintenance issues with cooperage. I have also seen some of the beaver bucket stuff in person, though I have not used any personally. Have our own coopers at work. The beaver stuff looks like it should work well. Costume content- I don't think I ever used any cooperage for washing clothes, having rather boiled it in copper or iron kettles. I have however used a goffering iron to press 18th Century ruffles. Cheers, Ron _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 23:04:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU44oA2008970 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:04:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU4324S027835; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU45aqq031025; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:05:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU45Zqq031000 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:05:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.14]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU42G2C004727 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:02:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031229195612.05119860@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:58:34 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Captain Hook's coat In-Reply-To: <10e.2a9798d2.2d21f8f1@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >My coat will not be anything like your fine court coats. Mine will >probably require that I prematurely age the garment before I ever wear >it. I think I know where I can get some faded velvet curtains I can use >for the fabric. > >I don't know about the rest of us, but MY curiosity is piqued! See the film. My coat will be red if I can get a faded curtain in red, but I will be a scummy pirate where Bjarne will be a profusely embroidered courtier. BTW, I have just finished reading the original story, and it says that Hook's coat is from the period of Charles II of England. In the film it's a little later than that, I think, but not by much. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 23:12:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU4CPA2008995 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:12:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU49A4S028299; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:09:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU4Bjqq033717; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:11:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBU4Bhqq033705 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:11:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 25462 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2003 04:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 30 Dec 2003 04:09:07 -0000 Received: from 162.119.64.110 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:09:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <46342.162.119.64.110.1072757347.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <1046.24.4.69.40.1072666878.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> References: <20031228205529.24808.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> <1046.24.4.69.40.1072666878.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:09:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > Hey everyone! > > I was hoping to pick your brains on a problem I am having. Namely not > having enough light in my sewing room! Thanks for everyone's responses! Part of my problem is that I have high ceilings (10 foot) so by the time the torchiere goes up and comes back it is not very bright. Also I was silly and painted my sewing room a lovely dusty rose color and I think that the color is making the light seem dull. I am going to pursue either flourescent lights or some track lighting with full spectrum bulbs. I actually bought some full spectrum bulbs at Costco a few days ago so if anyone has access and wants to check it out....they were 3-way bulbs and in a 3-pack for arount $5-6. Thanks again for the suggestions! -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Dec 29 23:46:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU4kUA2009069 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:46:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU4ia4S000726; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:44:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU4l6qq050115; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:47:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU4kpqq049913 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:46:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0074CA009E; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:33:11 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0049600EE; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:33:08 -0600 Message-ID: <022a01c3ce8f$9efc83e0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:44:33 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Oh, Megan, that wasn't my website... it was just an image of them I found on the web. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 11:41 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: scissors > Ah, I love the Fiskars as well. I have used my 50% off coupons at Joann's > chain stores to get those several times (one pair got "borrowed" and has a > nick). The price is often much better than Penny's website listed them for, > so shop around. They also make a small pair of thread snips that I love and > keep right by the sewing machines. > -Megan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 00:57:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBU5vYA2009227 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 00:57:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU5te4S004539; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:55:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU5w9qq082521; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:58:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU5w7qq082501 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:58:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from sdn-ar-007neomahp200.dialsprint.net ([63.178.246.112] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AbCqn-0007iS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 00:55:30 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20031229233903.013ac788@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:54:18 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200312291457.hBTEuKqr069765@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: lighting and vision X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I have a ceiling fan with 3 60-(or maybe 75) watt bulbs in the center of the room, and an old-fashioned floor lamp (vintage about 1960 or 70) in the corner between my sewing table and serging table, which would otherwise be unused space. It has a 3-way bulb and 3 60-watt bulbs. I can't put them all on at once, though, or it pops the circuit breakers. I'm saving for one of the new Ott-lites I saw adv. recently with a brighter bulb and convertible from floor lamp to clamp-on. I also have two windows near my tables, so on the rare occasion I get to sew in the daytime, I can open the shades and have lots of light. Hubby's room only has a 4-light 60 watt ceiling fan - I can't see anything in his room. He says he has plenty of light - but then he's the one with perfect vision, while I can't see even with bifocals - see below note to Penny..... >From: "Diana Habra" >Subject: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room > >I was hoping to pick your brains on a problem I am having. Namely not >having enough light in my sewing room! I have gone searching for bright >lamps and cannot seem to find any. All of the halogen lamps are only 300 >watts and not very bright and nobody seems to make a lamp that throws >enough light to sew by. > >So what do you have in the way of lighting in your sewing area? Do you >have any recommendations as to where I can find brighter lighting? > >Diana Habra Penny, I got myself (at Hobby Lobby) one of those craft magnifiers that work like the plastic sun-visors - they go on your forehead, and the lenses can be raised up or down as needed. I can't even sew a basic seam without them, let alone thread needles. They're about $25, come with an x1.5 and an x2.0 magnifying lens, and you can get other ones that go up to about x6.0. It works great, but after several hours, it takes a few minutes to adjust to not using them. What I would like to get is a set of Jeweler's magnifiers with metal frames, that have the basic lenses, with extra ones that swing in and out to add magnifying powers. They're kind of expensive, though. HTH, Sandy >From: "Penny Ladnier" > >While we are on sewing... since I changed to bifocals a few years ago, it is >the dickens to thread my sewing machine needles. Any suggestions on what >has worked for you? I used the old silver needle threaders for hand sewing >needles and that works. But the light from the sewing machine reflects in >my glasses and makes it even harder to thread the needle. For the past few >years I have been having my kids thread my sewing machine needle. Any >suggestions other than having someone else do it? > >Penny Ladnier "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 05:57:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUAvYA2003471 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 05:57:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUAus4S018740; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 03:56:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUAxSqq009130; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 03:59:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav88.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUAxQqq009067 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 03:59:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ysandra8@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 02:56:40 -0800 Received: from 67.112.42.3 by bay4-dav88.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:56:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [67.112.42.3] X-Originating-Email: [ysandra8@msn.com] X-Sender: ysandra8@msn.com From: "ysandra sliverneedle" To: References: <200312292231.hBTMV7qs056723@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 02:57:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.00.0011.1200 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 02:57:15 -0800 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Dec 2003 10:56:40.0854 (UTC) FILETIME=[9ADBB360:01C3CEC3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bobbin lace patterns and sources X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id hBUAvYA2003471 ----- Greetings Bjarne! Would it be possible for me to get a copy of the lace pattern you spoke of? I am trying to find just such patterns. I have a goal of making my own bobbin lace for a ruff and partlet for my court Elizabethan green velvet dress. Well that is a goal however long it takes to make the yardage. When you make your bobbin lace for ruffs how much yardage do you make? and for the cuffs? I continue to look for books with period patterns, but have had no luck. Do you have any suggestions on books available for the Elizabethan period? And perhaps do you have a source for the Nuw Modelbook, which is as I understand it period laces. I have Le Pompe, but don't find that all that helpful and really haven't found "pretty" (to me anyway) lace patterns I would spend making. The pattern you spoke of sounds just like what I want. Many Thanks for all you kind help Ysandra ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:18:14 +0100 From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: <004001c3ce51$45a0ba20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Angela. Dont know of these particular patterns you refer to. But there also is: Norah Waughs The Cut of Mens Clothes, wich has very good pattern drafts. But you have to scale them up. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Kessler" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 8:27 PM Subject: [h-cost] looking for a pattern > My DH would like a jacket of a style we've seen often > in Hollywood, but not positive whether it's > historical. I think it was popular sometime around > 1790-1810, and it's the fashion with the really high > fall collar on the jacket, waistcoat, and I'm not sure > how many layers. It looks like this may be it in item > #WN 212: > http://www.patternsoftime.com/pdf/2003/2003regency.pdf > > but it's hard to tell since the detail's not real good > in that picture. Also, I wasn't thinking the front > was cutaway like that. > > Does anyone know anything about this pattern? > Patterns of Time in general? Other printed patterns > for this style? Or a book that would at least have > good historical pictures showing detail of this style? > > Thanks- > Angela > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:27:16 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <20031229212716.85407.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well, in my experience, it has NOT been an Urban Legend that scissors will dull if you use them to cut paper. When I was little I DID use my first pair of nice scissors for cutting paper(I was 10)--and sure enough, after a few times they did'nt slide thru the the fabric as nicely as they had before. And ,of course, once my little brother got ahold of them and used them to cut wire on one of his 'electrical experiements' , they were thoroughly ruined . We both got quite a lecture from my father(my mother was the sewer---I guess Dad had learned his lessons well:) Albra Chris Laning > wrote: Carol wrote: > Scissors are thought to get duller faster if you use them to cut paper (I >don't know if this is true or not). I've been wondering about this for a while. I know that it's often claimed that paper dulls good scissors, but has anyone ever run across any hard evidence one way or the other? Or is this an Urban Sewing Legend? >More importantly, paper scissors are often >not cared for very well, and as "lesser" scissors might be used to cut a thin >bit of wire, they might hit a staple, etc. This causes nicks in the blade >that, when cutting fabric, will skip cutting a thread. When cutting a thin >silk, it's REALLY maddening! But scissors with nicks in the blades will still >cut most paper just fine. Now THOSE are really _good_ points. I remember hearing once (again, this may just be a legend :) that someone took a survey on the question: "What's the one thing you remember your mother always saying?" Some incredibly high percentage (like 70%?) of people answered with "Not my good sewing scissors!" (As usual, I had to be different: it's "Brush your hair, dear.") ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:35:29 -0800 From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Captain Hook's coat To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20031229132852.05848200@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >I think i have seen some scenes from this movie. >I would say that Captain Hooks outfit is turning of the century, late 17th >century early 1700. That estimate goes with the wig and hat he wears. >Sounds like a lot of fun for you! My coat will not be anything like your fine court coats. Mine will probably require that I prematurely age the garment before I ever wear it. I think I know where I can get some faded velvet curtains I can use for the fabric. >And happy newyear Happy new year to you too. May you never run out of silk thread in the middle of a flower. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\<> ////-@@\\\<> (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:38:57 EST From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Captain Hook's coat To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <10e.2a9798d2.2d21f8f1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 12/29/2003 1:37:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, kayta@frys.com writes: My coat will not be anything like your fine court coats. Mine will probably require that I prematurely age the garment before I ever wear it. I think I know where I can get some faded velvet curtains I can use for the fabric. I don't know about the rest of us, but MY curiosity is piqued! Laura ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:01:42 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS > Subject: Re: [h-cost] ancient textiles book on ebay To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <20031229220142.13440.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well, thank you's to Katy and Joan for mentioning this on the List---it looks like I shall be the proud (broke) owner of this book---which I had actually been looking for for awhile. So, while I may now be broke--I am very happy:) Albra Joan Jurancich > wrote: I bought the English edition of this book ("Ancient Danish Textiles from Bogs and Burials: A Comparative Study of Costume and Iron Age Textiles") shortly after it came out in 1980 (ISBN 87-480-0312-3). It's a wonderful book. I periodically re-read it just because it's fascinating. And I still want to try weaving on a warp-weighted loom. I remember seeing the original Danish edition (from a library copy) and wanting it in English. So far the bid is up to $76 (US). At 05:22 PM 12/22/2003 -0500, you wrote: >There is a book I can across on ebay on "ancient danish textiles" The >price it cheap, not a period I am interested in but thought some of you >might be: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=362&item=2583025807 > >Katy > >Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian >vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:09:07 EST From: AnnBWass@aol.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 12/29/2003 4:18:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: But there also is: Norah Waughs The Cut of Mens Clothes, wich has very good pattern drafts. But you have to scale them up. Alas! The only pattern she has from this period is a greatcoat--great if you want a greatcoat (heh, heh) but not if you want a tailcoat. Ann Wass ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:25:15 -0800 From: Kimiko Small > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031229141159.00b0a4c8@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed To clarify the halogen bulbs I am speaking of, they are new kind that are fully enclosed. Westinghouse Halogen Halomax, 60 watt soft white bulbs. 900 lumens, 60 watts energy used, 3000 hours. I found them at Lowes, buy 2 get 1 free package. I originally had put in florescent bulbs into the sockets to replace the original lamps, but the florescent were too yellow in coloring which put a ghastly shade of yellow over everything. While they are a little warmer in heat than the florescent bulbs, they don't give off as much heat as regular lamps do. I just put them in a few days ago, so I will let you know how much more energy they draw from the electrical bill later. But they are a nice white light. With all the talk about color corrected florescent lamps, try this web site. http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/. They have industrial and home model florescent lamps, including types that look to be the same as Ott lights, but at a lower price. And they discount if you buy bulk. I used them for a photo company I worked for, that needs color corrected lamps all the time. Someday if I can get the right electrical work, I will add in some more color corrected lamps over the sewing area, but because I need the ceiling fan in here, I had to go with the halogen bulbs for now. To be honest, my computer puts off more heat than the lamps are right now. But my Ott lamp is what I use most for close up work. And I don't use any floor lamps. I need what little floor space I have for moving around in. And one other thing to help with lights, a white or light colored walls and ceiling paint. While I want to add color to my room, having white walls in here really does help with the light situation. And you can get bright white ceiling paint to help reflect more light around the room. hth Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 884 ***************************************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 10:02:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUF2wA2003969 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:02:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUF1q4S002934; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:01:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUF4Rqq015848; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:04:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lycos.com (www5.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBUF4Qqq015776 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:04:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from panthergirl@mailcity.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:01:31 -0000 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:01:31 -0500 From: "Panther Grrl" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 X-Sender-Ip: 38.118.10.117 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 885 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Margo, did I understand correctly? Are the set of the second edition of Elizabethan Lady's patterns available now? I've really been looking forward to this, thank you in advance. --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:48:05 From: h-costume-request@indra.com To: h-costume@net.indra.com Cc: >Send h-costume mailing list submissions to > h-costume@mail.indra.com > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > h-costume-request@mail.indra.com > >You can reach the person managing the list at > h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. ebay book (Kimiko Small) > 2. Re: Re: scissors (Cynthia Virtue) > 3. Re: what I got for Christmas & scissors > (lotsofteapots@charter.net) > 4. Re: Margot Andersons Elizabethan lady pattern? (Margo Anderson) > 5. Re: Re: scissors (Dawn) > 6. Re: Margot Andersons Elizabethan lady pattern? (Lisa Sinervo) > 7. Re: ebay book (Lisa Sinervo) > 8. Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose gown sleeve-anyone > else tried it? (Saragrace T. Knauf) > 9. RE: Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose > gownsleeve-anyone else tried it? (Wanda Pease) > 10. RE: Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's > loosegownsleeve-anyone else tried it? (Saragrace T. Knauf) > 11. Anyone tried a beaver bucket? (Lisa Sinervo) > 12. Re: Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose > gownsleeve-anyone else tried it? (seamstrix@juno.com) > 13. RE: Anyone tried a beaver bucket? (Ron Carnegie) > 14. Re: Captain Hook's coat (Carolyn Kayta Barrows) > 15. Re: Lighting woes for my sewing room (Diana Habra) > 16. Re: Re: scissors (Penny Ladnier) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:47:28 -0800 >From: Kimiko Small >Subject: [h-cost] ebay book >To: h-costume@indra.com >Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031229144623.023a3ba8@64.87.54.245> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > >If someone is really interested in paying for this, as I am not as much as >I want it. I hate having a budget sometimes. > >Roy Strong TUDOR AND JACOBEAN PORTRAITS >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3576551852&category=7703 > >Good luck! > >Kimiko > >Kimiko Small >Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother >"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > >Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild >Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery >http://www.costumegallery.com > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:11:37 -0500 >From: Cynthia Virtue >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors >To: Historical Costume >Message-ID: <3FF0D0C9.2000809@thibault.org> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Chris Laning wrote: > >> I've been wondering about this for a while. I know that it's often >claimed that paper dulls good scissors, but has anyone ever run across >any hard evidence one way or the other? Or is this an Urban Sewing >Legend? > >Wood fibers are fairly rough, on the micro level. That's why it's >recommended to never wipe your glasses with paper towels, facial tissue, >etc. Also why facial tissue will scratch your nose over time, if you've >got inflamed skin from a cold. > >Hence the sale of special cleaning cloths for glasses (although an >all-cotton towel works great) and cotton-fiber facial tissues (or paper >ones loaded with lotion, to grease the way.) > >-- >Cynthia Virtue and/or >Cynthia du Pré Argent > >And so, faced with shocking lack of documentation, I am forced to invent >some of my own. -- Cecil Adams > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:14:26 -0600 >From: >Subject: [h-cost] Re: what I got for Christmas & scissors >To: >Message-ID: <000401c3ce72$44ad2f60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Just got through the backlog from being gone and thought I'd throw in my few >cents... > >As for Christmas, the only sewing related thing was the book "Fine Machine >Embroidery", which after reading through about half of it just looks like so >much fun! I also got a Barnes & Noble gift card, so we'll see what may be >gotten with that. > >And for scissors and hubbies - well, mine was raised by a sewing mom, so he >came trained ;-) I've never had to tell him to stay away from my sewing >scissors! > >********************** >Rebecca Schmitt >aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot >BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > >A room without books is like a body without a soul >---Cicero > >lotsofteapots@charter.net >********************** > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:18:09 -0800 >From: Margo Anderson >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margot Andersons Elizabethan lady pattern? >To: Historical Costume , h-costume@indra.com >Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031229171809.011e4a80@pop.directcon.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >At 03:56 PM 12/29/2003 EST, MysticsLady9@aol.com wrote: >>In a message dated 12/29/2003 12:49:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, >>ivycircle@yahoo.com writes: >>Has anyone heard of a sale date for the second edition? Since hearing great >>things about the pattern I have been waiting a few months but still no >update >>on the website. > >I'm sorry for the delay. We have experienced cash flow problems due to a >wholesale customer's having cancelled a large order, which was allocated to >pay for the reprinting. Not unreasonably, the printing company refused to >proceed until they were paid. We have managed to obtain funds from another >source and the patterns will be on their way soon. > >In the meantime, I have also completed the second edition/upgrade of the >Underpinnings and Accesories packages and we are having them printed as well. > >Thanks for your patience, > >Margo Anderson > > >"One Tough Costumer" > >www.margospatterns.com > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:38:13 -0600 >From: Dawn >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors >To: Historical Costume >Message-ID: <3FF0D705.8060801@reddawn.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > >> >> claimed that paper dulls good scissors, but has anyone ever run across >> any hard evidence one way or the other? Or is this an Urban Sewing >> Legend? > >I do notice the difference between sharp fabric scissors, and fabric >scissors that get used to cut up nearly a ream of paper (ex roomie, >grr!) and scissors that have been freshly sharpened. > >So, no, it's not an urban legend. > >> >> Wood fibers are fairly rough, on the micro level. That's why it's >> recommended to never wipe your glasses with paper towels, facial tissue, >> etc. Also why facial tissue will scratch your nose over time, if you've >> got inflamed skin from a cold. > >Also why you don't want to use paper towels to wipe off the bed of your >scanner, and get a pack of those special eyeglass wipes instead. > > > >Dawn > > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 6 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:46:40 -0800 >From: "Lisa Sinervo" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margot Andersons Elizabethan lady pattern? >To: "Historical Costume" >Message-ID: <000e01c3ce76$c60fe8a0$1c24a5d1@pavilion> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >errghhh! When things like this happen to me I can only think how much more >useful I'd be with my time and money if I were Paris Hilton! Hang in >there!!! > >Lisa Sinervo > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Margo Anderson" >To: "Historical Costume" ; >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 5:18 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margot Andersons Elizabethan lady pattern? > > >> At 03:56 PM 12/29/2003 EST, MysticsLady9@aol.com wrote: >> >In a message dated 12/29/2003 12:49:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, >> >ivycircle@yahoo.com writes: >> >Has anyone heard of a sale date for the second edition? Since hearing >great >> >things about the pattern I have been waiting a few months but still no >> update >> >on the website. >> >> I'm sorry for the delay. We have experienced cash flow problems due to a >> wholesale customer's having cancelled a large order, which was allocated >to >> pay for the reprinting. Not unreasonably, the printing company refused to >> proceed until they were paid. We have managed to obtain funds from another >> source and the patterns will be on their way soon. >> >> In the meantime, I have also completed the second edition/upgrade of the >> Underpinnings and Accesories packages and we are having them printed as >well. >> >> Thanks for your patience, >> >> Margo Anderson >> >> >> "One Tough Costumer" >> >> www.margospatterns.com >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 7 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:31:22 -0800 >From: "Lisa Sinervo" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] ebay book >To: "Historical Costume" >Message-ID: <000f01c3ce7d$04baf120$2739a5d1@pavilion> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Thanks Kimiko for the heads up! thinking, thinking.... I do need to go on a diet anyway. :).... Just had a look and Barnes and Noble has the same book with a 1980 publishing date at $250. I wonder if this book might have more color in it as the 1969 edition seems to be mostly black and white. Or am I incorrect here? I don't think I'll be bidding, but definetly will be ILLing this one! Also had a look under Roy Strong on www.bookfinder.com and there are quite a few more books of interest there! > >Lisa Sinervo - wishing I was Paris Hilton at the moment! >www.thrednedlestrete.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kimiko Small" >To: >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:47 PM >Subject: [h-cost] ebay book > > >> If someone is really interested in paying for this, as I am not as much as >> I want it. I hate having a budget sometimes. >> >> Roy Strong TUDOR AND JACOBEAN PORTRAITS >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3576551852&category=7703 >> >> Good luck! >> >> Kimiko >> >> Kimiko Small >> Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother >> "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell >> >> Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild >> Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery >> http://www.costumegallery.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 8 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:50:59 -0700 >From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" >Subject: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose gown > sleeve-anyone else tried it? >To: >Message-ID: <001f01c3ce7f$c16cd750$6501a8c0@SG01> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Has anyone else tried to reproduce the loose gown short sleeve on page 45 & >46 sucessfully? I drafted, sewed it up-blech. Then I just blew her pattern >up.same thing. > > > >What was she thinking? Besides the obvious stuff like completely mismatched >pieces, the shape produced looks very little like the actual sleeve. Every >time I think I will save some time using her patterns, I am disappointed. > > > >Does anyone know if she really sewed at all? > > > >Sg > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 9 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:06:03 -0800 >From: "Wanda Pease" >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose > gownsleeve-anyone else tried it? >To: "Historical Costume" >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >I did that one too, and didn't like the look of the sleeve either. The >width simply didn't work. Finally I rounded it more, and it came out >looking like the ones in Alcega. Since he was making them at the time, I >suspect he is a better source. > >Regina >> >> What was she thinking? Besides the obvious stuff like completely >> mismatched >> pieces, the shape produced looks very little like the actual >> sleeve. Every >> time I think I will save some time using her patterns, I am disappointed. >> >> >> >> Does anyone know if she really sewed at all? >> >> >> >> Sg >> >> > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 10 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:18:52 -0700 >From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's > loosegownsleeve-anyone else tried it? >To: "'Historical Costume'" >Message-ID: <002401c3ce83$a6a11cc0$6501a8c0@SG01> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I just took a quick look at Algacea and don't see anything like the sleeve >puff except maybe on 70a: Silk gown for a woman. Which one are you speaking >of. > >Also I am curious if the stylized loose gown Arnold shows on page 45 >(Primariae mulieris...Belgas) sleeve is exaggerated. The rest of the >drawing doesn't seem to be, so I am wondering if that sleeve cap is. It'd >be fun to do....I think I like it better than the round cap... opinions? > >And just what are those things that look like braids hanging on either side >of her head and round her neck....? > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 11 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:35:00 -0800 >From: "Lisa Sinervo" >Subject: [h-cost] Anyone tried a beaver bucket? >To: "Historical Costume" >Message-ID: <000c01c3ce85$e8759ca0$a22da5d1@pavilion> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >I'm passing on book buying at the moment as I need a good washtub for my starch house re-creation (Yes, I'd still like to do a tailor's shop but that I'm going to have to grow into - I'm starting smaller). Beaver buckets http://www.beaverbuckets.com/WashTubs.htm has a very nice oak washtub for $250 - yes I do need to diet!!! But I was wondering if anyone has ever used such a tub before. Anyone know of any better prices? I would like a nice quality one. > >Thanks, > >Lisa Sinervo > >costume content - the bucket will be used for washing dirty ruffs! > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 12 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:30:04 -0600 >From: seamstrix@juno.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose > gownsleeve-anyone else tried it? >To: h-costume@indra.com >Message-ID: <20031229.213005.-489645.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >According to Jean Hunnisett (who I had the pleasure of playing chauffeur >and general Friendly Native Guide for on her last visit to the States), >Janet Arnold was much more of researcher and theoretician than an actual >costumer. In many cases Janet would do research and come up with ideas >and then advise on designs that Jean would then make up. Apparently part >of the reason they had a 'falling out' was over the theoretical versus >practical aspect of recreating costumes- each lady was very knowledgable >and opinionated and had her own ideas which occasionally clashed. Ah, to >be in Costumer's Heaven eavesdropping on their discussions now! > > >Karen > >________________________________________________________________ >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 13 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:39:17 -0500 >From: "Ron Carnegie" >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Anyone tried a beaver bucket? >To: "Historical Costume" >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On >> Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo >> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 10:35 PM >> To: Historical Costume >> Subject: [h-cost] Anyone tried a beaver bucket? >> >> >> I'm passing on book buying at the moment as I need a good washtub >> for my starch house re-creation (Yes, I'd still like to do a >> tailor's shop but that I'm going to have to grow into - I'm >> starting smaller). Beaver buckets >> http://www.beaverbuckets.com/WashTubs.htm has a very nice oak >> washtub for $250 - yes I do need to diet!!! But I was wondering >> if anyone has ever used such a tub before. Anyone know of any >> better prices? I would like a nice quality one. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lisa Sinervo >> >> costume content - the bucket will be used for washing dirty ruffs! >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > I have used similiar tubs for doing dishes at work. There are of course >certain maintenance issues with cooperage. I have also seen some of the >beaver bucket stuff in person, though I have not used any personally. Have >our own coopers at work. The beaver stuff looks like it should work well. > > Costume content- I don't think I ever used any cooperage for washing >clothes, having rather boiled it in copper or iron kettles. I have however >used a goffering iron to press 18th Century ruffles. > >Cheers, >Ron > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 14 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:58:34 -0800 >From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Captain Hook's coat >To: Historical Costume >Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20031229195612.05119860@mail.frys.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > >>My coat will not be anything like your fine court coats. Mine will >>probably require that I prematurely age the garment before I ever wear >>it. I think I know where I can get some faded velvet curtains I can use >>for the fabric. >> >>I don't know about the rest of us, but MY curiosity is piqued! > >See the film. My coat will be red if I can get a faded curtain in red, but >I will be a scummy pirate where Bjarne will be a profusely embroidered >courtier. BTW, I have just finished reading the original story, and it >says that Hook's coat is from the period of Charles II of England. In the >film it's a little later than that, I think, but not by much. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 15 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:09:07 -0800 (PST) >From: "Diana Habra" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lighting woes for my sewing room >To: "Historical Costume" >Message-ID: > <46342.162.119.64.110.1072757347.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> >Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > >> Hey everyone! >> >> I was hoping to pick your brains on a problem I am having. Namely not >> having enough light in my sewing room! > >Thanks for everyone's responses! Part of my problem is that I have high >ceilings (10 foot) so by the time the torchiere goes up and comes back it >is not very bright. Also I was silly and painted my sewing room a lovely >dusty rose color and I think that the color is making the light seem dull. > >I am going to pursue either flourescent lights or some track lighting with >full spectrum bulbs. I actually bought some full spectrum bulbs at Costco >a few days ago so if anyone has access and wants to check it out....they >were 3-way bulbs and in a 3-pack for arount $5-6. > >Thanks again for the suggestions! > >-- >Diana Habra >www.renaissancefabrics.net >"Everything for the Costumer" > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 16 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:44:33 -0500 >From: "Penny Ladnier" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors >To: "Historical Costume" >Message-ID: <022a01c3ce8f$9efc83e0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> > >Oh, Megan, that wasn't my website... it was just an image of them I found on >the web. > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >www.costumegallery.com >www.costumeclassroom.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Megan M." >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 11:41 AM >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: scissors > > >> Ah, I love the Fiskars as well. I have used my 50% off coupons at Joann's >> chain stores to get those several times (one pair got "borrowed" and has a >> nick). The price is often much better than Penny's website listed them >for, >> so shop around. They also make a small pair of thread snips that I love >and >> keep right by the sewing machines. >> -Megan >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners >(http://www.plugit.com)] >> >> > > >[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >End of h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 885 >***************************************** > ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 10:09:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUF99A2003984 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:09:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUF8X4S003393; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:08:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUFBDqq019284; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:11:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUFBAqq019214 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:11:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 761DC425CE for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:17:29 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FF194D0.4000504@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:08:00 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lighting and vision References: <5.1.1.6.0.20031229233903.013ac788@radiks.net> In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20031229233903.013ac788@radiks.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > It has a 3-way bulb and 3 60-watt bulbs. I > can't put them all on at once, though, or it pops the circuit breakers. Try those new energy saving bulbs. You can get ones that only draw 26w but put out light like a 100w bulb. It really makes a difference in situations where you need light but can't get it from older wiring. I use them in my small desk lamp for painting, where it only takes a 60w or less. They cost a few dollars more, but you get way more lighting and they last for years. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 10:31:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUFVbA2004042 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:31:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUFUi4S005012; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:30:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUFXOqq030871; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:33:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBUFXLqq030806 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:33:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Okyfrsz1P+bcNsEjNnffS9g=">; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 07:30:26 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JJNJ63FC; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 07:30:26 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 07:27:30 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lighting and vision Message-ID: <20031230.072931.1728.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-37 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I had terrible luck with those. I tried them for the lamp where I do embroidery, and couldn't see a thing. I found the light very gray, and as someone who has Seasonal Affective Disorder, found the quality of the light very depressing as well. Within a week, I switched back to a regular light bulb and haven't looked back. Arlys On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:08:00 -0600 Dawn writes: > Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > > > It has a 3-way bulb and 3 60-watt bulbs. I > > can't put them all on at once, though, or it pops the circuit > breakers. > > Try those new energy saving bulbs. You can get ones that only draw > 26w > but put out light like a 100w bulb. It really makes a difference in > situations where you need light but can't get it from older wiring. > I > use them in my small desk lamp for painting, where it only takes a > 60w > or less. They cost a few dollars more, but you get way more lighting > and > they last for years. > > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 11:08:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUG8NA2004133 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:08:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUG7t4S008272; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:07:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUGAYqq051306; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:10:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUGAUqr051251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:10:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBUG5SPp023831 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:05:28 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:05:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FF1A31A.2040505@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:08:58 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lighting and vision References: <20031230.072931.1728.0.Cley@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20031230.072931.1728.0.Cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Cynthia J Ley wrote: > I had terrible luck with those. I have found that they vary *enormously* between brands. Some are great. Some are pink. Some are grey. If you want to try them, buy similar output ones from two or three companies, if you can get them. Right now, I'm very happy with Maxlight brand. My old Lights of America brand ones are very greenish. The Maxlight is pale pink when turned on, but within a minute or two produces a very good light. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent And so, faced with shocking lack of documentation, I am forced to invent some of my own. -- Cecil Adams _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 11:25:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUGPvA2004151 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:25:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUGPO4S010079; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:25:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUGS4qq062138; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:28:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20202.mail.yahoo.com (web20202.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBUGS2qq062108 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:28:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031230162519.8094.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:25:19 PST Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:25:19 -0800 (PST) From: Angela Kessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com --- Bice d'Este wrote: > isn't that Winego's pattern? Patterns of Time is the > carrier for a number of > pattern companies. Right you are--thanks. I had never heard of Winego, but The Great Pattern Review seems to like them better than Rocking Horse Farm in general. Also, thanks to the person who reported on what's in "The Cut of Men's Clothes". I found a couple of other likely-looking books, but I will wait until I have a chance to flip through them before buying. ("Men's 17th & 18th Century Costume: Cut and Fashion" by R.I. Davis, and "Costume Close Up, Clothing Construction and Pattern, 1750-1790" by Baumgarten) -Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 11:31:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUGVdA2004181 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:31:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUGUi4S010708; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:30:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUGXOqq065425; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:33:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav69.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUGXNqq065374 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:33:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:30:36 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav69.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:30:36 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031230162519.8094.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:28:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Dec 2003 16:30:36.0556 (UTC) FILETIME=[411134C0:01C3CEF2] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Winego isn't *too* bad I think a lot of people dislike the blueprint properties of a couple of these companies and it is distracting to try and hook pieces together. But in general they aren't bad. I rather like Rocking Horse myself but everyone I know really hates them. i've seen some other companies that are FAR worse. B~ Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb ($2 shipping to list members on books and patterns!) Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs ----- Original Message ----- > > isn't that Winego's pattern? Patterns of Time is the > > carrier for a number of > > pattern companies. > > Right you are--thanks. I had never heard of Winego, > but The Great Pattern Review seems to like them better > than Rocking Horse Farm in general. > > Also, thanks to the person who reported on what's in > "The Cut of Men's Clothes". I found a couple of other > likely-looking books, but I will wait until I have a > chance to flip through them before buying. ("Men's > 17th & 18th Century Costume: Cut and Fashion" by R.I. > Davis, and "Costume Close Up, Clothing Construction > and Pattern, 1750-1790" by Baumgarten) > > -Angela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 11:53:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUGrTA2004246 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:53:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUGqr4S012643; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:52:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUGtVqq078586; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:55:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBUGtTqq078566 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:55:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031230165247.24770.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.198.239.123] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:52:47 PST Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:52:47 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lighting and vision To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20031230.072931.1728.0.Cley@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com However, you can order these energy efficient bulbs from certain 'energy conscious' catalogues with a different color spectrum, to get a 'truer to life' spectrum of color. I suspect that would ease your SAD effects as well.As soon as I run across that catalogue in my mailbox I'll write you with the name . Albra Cynthia J Ley wrote: I had terrible luck with those. I tried them for the lamp where I do embroidery, and couldn't see a thing. I found the light very gray, and as someone who has Seasonal Affective Disorder, found the quality of the light very depressing as well. Within a week, I switched back to a regular light bulb and haven't looked back. Arlys On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:08:00 -0600 Dawn writes: > Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > > > It has a 3-way bulb and 3 60-watt bulbs. I > > can't put them all on at once, though, or it pops the circuit > breakers. > > Try those new energy saving bulbs. You can get ones that only draw > 26w > but put out light like a 100w bulb. It really makes a difference in > situations where you need light but can't get it from older wiring. > I > use them in my small desk lamp for painting, where it only takes a > 60w > or less. They cost a few dollars more, but you get way more lighting > and > they last for years. > > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 12:01:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUH16A2004264 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:01:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUGwv4S013240; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:58:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUH1bqq082333; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:01:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUH1Yqq082240 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:01:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85996425CE for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:07:52 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FF1AEB0.4030602@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:58:24 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern References: <20031230162519.8094.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Bice d'Este wrote: > I rather like Rocking > Horse myself but everyone I know really hates them. i've seen some other > companies that are FAR worse. > What is it that people don't like about Rocking Horse? They seem to have a good selection of patterns. Are they badly drafted? Do they not fit? Are the instructions bad? I have yet to find a pattern company that has really good instructions. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 12:06:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUH60A2004282 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:06:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUH5O4S013782; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:05:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUH85qq086331; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:08:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-HMR12.adinternal.hotmail.com (bay0-hmr12.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.241.211]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUH82qq086209 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:08:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.244.85]) by BAY0-HMR12.adinternal.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:05:14 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:05:14 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav28.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:05:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031230162519.8094.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> <3FF1AEB0.4030602@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:03:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Dec 2003 17:05:14.0189 (UTC) FILETIME=[176ED7D0:01C3CEF7] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Well the instruction are either too simplistic or too complicated. There's no happy medium. And they are really blueprints. Great big sheets that need to be taped together.I've also heard people complain over the fit and that the drafting is awkward. Like I said though I've never had a big issue with them. I've used the hobble skirt pattern made it in wool and it's turned out fine. And it was in my size which always rocks. I'm a larger size (18) and even Folkwear doesn't always go that high (they are revamping however slowly and will have plus sizes soon) My thoughts are to try one and see what you think. I'd start with an easier one of thiers though. The Hobble Skirt is simple and you can check out the site at http://www.rockinghorse-farm.com/ I will say they are not for the faint of heart. You MUST have moderate to advanced sewing skills and understand how a pattern goes together. B~ Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb($2 shipping to list members on books and patterns!) Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: December 30, 2003 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern > Bice d'Este wrote: > > > I rather like Rocking > > Horse myself but everyone I know really hates them. i've seen some other > > companies that are FAR worse. > > > > What is it that people don't like about Rocking Horse? They seem to have > a good selection of patterns. Are they badly drafted? Do they not fit? > Are the instructions bad? I have yet to find a pattern company that has > really good instructions. > > Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 12:14:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUHEnA2004332 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:14:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUHE44S014816; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUHGjqq092064; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:16:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUHGgqq092038 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:16:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.176.69]) by smail1.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 562658 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:11:37 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for a pattern Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:14:11 -0600 Message-ID: <000001c3cef8$58242180$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <3FF1AEB0.4030602@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Dawn wrote: What is it that people don't like about Rocking Horse? They seem to have a good selection of patterns. Are they badly drafted? Do they not fit? Are the instructions bad? I would have to say YES to all the above, but I have only used 2 of their patterns, and will never buy another. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 12:30:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUHUfA2004389 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:30:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUHTw4S016182; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:29:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUHWdqq002110; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:32:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUHWVqq002051 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:32:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [209.63.4.49]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390676AD3C for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:29:46 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:30:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose gown sleeve-anyone else tried it? Message-ID: <3FF1459A.10749.174974FE@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001f01c3ce7f$c16cd750$6501a8c0@SG01> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > Has anyone else tried to reproduce the loose gown short sleeve on page > 45 & 46 sucessfully? I drafted, sewed it up-blech. Then I just blew > her pattern up.same thing. I used a variation on it. You do need to have an inner "form" (which she calls the foundation) or the puffs hang and pull funny. Over that you need to have the puffed parts (which can be a full small puffed sleeve like you see in the Snow White cartoon) with the bands. (This is similar in construction to the pluderhosen/trunk hose where you have the basic pants, then poofy ones over it.) Then there is the separate "cuff" that goes on the bottom. Her basic pattern works, but I would not just blow it up. (Ignore the bit that says "shape of sleeve" because neither the pattern above it nor the real one on page 45 show a seam or decoration across the sleeve like "shape of sleeve" shows.) > What was she thinking? Besides the obvious stuff like completely > mismatched pieces, the shape produced looks very little like the > actual sleeve. Every time I think I will save some time using her > patterns, I am disappointed. > > Does anyone know if she really sewed at all? She didn't actually draft all those patterns, let alone try them out. After a lecture she did, several of us asked about the patterns. She said that her grad students often did the drafting and that she didn't have time to check them all. There are *many* errors throughout the patterns. For more specifics, try to get hold of a copy of Bob Trump's _The Annotated Arnold_. He goes almost point by point through the entire book showing where the errors are so that you can tell what does work and what doesn't. She actually did sew. But the patterns weren't meant to be blown up and used (according to what she said) but used as rough ideas of how the pattern pieces would work. I think that the most hilarious "error" in the book is figure 14 on page 5. That's the "arming sleeve" and they've got the thing completely put together wrong! The drawings are totally bogus. (Well, the one which says "sleevehead" at the top can be used, but not with the matching marks that are shown. Match the straight part to straight part on the upper sleeve and the curved part to the curved part on the lower sleeve. Why they have the upper sleeve straight part to the top of the lower sleeve is beyond me! When put together correctly, it should look more like: http://www.flg.es/museo/contenido/colecciones/pintura/8030.htm (Although this particular sleeve was made slightly differently. It is most likely made by using the sleeve from figure 29 on page 7 but slashing it across instead of up and down the front the way figure 30 shows it.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 12:58:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUHwuA2004463 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:58:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUHv54S018797; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:57:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUHxhqq018697; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:59:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from solomon.io.com (solomon.io.com [199.170.88.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUHxfqr018666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:59:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by solomon.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBUIBVeq014520 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:11:31 -0600 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id hBUHv1ub027560 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:57:01 -0600 Received: from 198.134.51.14 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:57:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <52659.198.134.51.14.1072807021.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:57:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose gown sleeve-anyone else tried it? From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: In-Reply-To: <3FF1459A.10749.174974FE@localhost> References: <001f01c3ce7f$c16cd750$6501a8c0@SG01> <3FF1459A.10749.174974FE@localhost> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >From what I understand, and my understanding was constructed from sitting in many lectures, workshops, picking folks brains, reading her other articles, and yes ... mailing lists like this one ... the pieces we see are not at all for reproduction. The pieces we see are off the garments that she was allowed to touch and sometimes take apart from the different time periods. I am not a professional. But my father runs a museum in deep south Texas. I know, big whoop, but they have textiles there. I have been able to look at some of them, the wedding dresses from the turn of the century, and I have to tell you. There is no way in hell anyone could recreate those dresses exactly and fit into them without knowing the exact foundations that went with them. I have also been able to look at but not touch the beautiful collections at UT Austin in the Textiles building (surely renamed by now to some money rolling person's name). I got to even see the Gone with the Wind Dresses now on display. :) I am not saying that the underdresses need foundations. I am just saying that the pieces that she had to work with, in the manner that she had to work with, left her to use a lot of imagination to make up for the spots that were "missing" or she was unable to really get to cause they could not be taken apart. I also seem to remember that at the beginning of her books she states that these are not patterns but recreations of the garments she used for her research. I did talk to Bob a couple of times to get permission to post images of the gloves his created on my gloves website and asked about this and he agreed that she did indeed state it. Bob is cool. :) Buy his books. Chiara > >> Has anyone else tried to reproduce the loose gown short sleeve on page >> 45 & 46 sucessfully? I drafted, sewed it up-blech. Then I just blew >> her pattern up.same thing. > > I used a variation on it. > > You do need to have an inner "form" (which she calls the foundation) or > the puffs hang and pull funny. Over that you need to have the > puffed parts (which can be a full small puffed sleeve like you see in > the Snow White cartoon) with the bands. (This is similar in > construction to the pluderhosen/trunk hose where you have the basic > pants, then poofy ones over it.) Then there is the separate "cuff" that > goes on the bottom. Her basic pattern works, but I would not just blow > it up. (Ignore the bit that says "shape of sleeve" because neither the > pattern above it nor the real one on page 45 show a seam or decoration > across the sleeve like "shape of sleeve" shows.) > >> What was she thinking? Besides the obvious stuff like completely >> mismatched pieces, the shape produced looks very little like the >> actual sleeve. Every time I think I will save some time using her >> patterns, I am disappointed. >> >> Does anyone know if she really sewed at all? > > She didn't actually draft all those patterns, let alone try them out. > After a lecture she did, several of us asked about the patterns. She > said that her grad students often did the drafting and that she > didn't have time to check them all. There are *many* errors > throughout the patterns. > > For more specifics, try to get hold of a copy of Bob Trump's _The > Annotated Arnold_. He goes almost point by point through the entire > book showing where the errors are so that you can tell what does work > and what doesn't. > > She actually did sew. But the patterns weren't meant to be blown up and > used (according to what she said) but used as rough ideas of how the > pattern pieces would work. > > I think that the most hilarious "error" in the book is figure 14 on > page 5. That's the "arming sleeve" and they've got the thing > completely put together wrong! The drawings are totally bogus. (Well, > the one which says "sleevehead" at the top can be used, but not with > the matching marks that are shown. Match the straight part to > straight part on the upper sleeve and the curved part to the curved > part on the lower sleeve. Why they have the upper sleeve straight part > to the top of the lower sleeve is beyond me! When put together > correctly, it should look more like: > http://www.flg.es/museo/contenido/colecciones/pintura/8030.htm > (Although this particular sleeve was made slightly differently. It is > most likely made by using the sleeve from figure 29 on page 7 but > slashing it across instead of up and down the front the way figure 30 > shows it.) > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Ches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 13:56:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUIuYA2004647 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:56:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUIrO4S024351; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:53:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUIu1qq054598; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:56:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [69.17.45.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUItvqq054551 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:55:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (adsl-63-202-186-190.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.190]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 399E42F893 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:56:34 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031228121900.00b45b80@pop.directcon.net> References: <6E285CF1.3419F5BE.3739C57F@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20031228121900.00b45b80@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <6DD92B43-3AF9-11D8-AA52-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:53:17 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Margo, you are *brilliant*. .heather. On Dec 28, 2003, at 12:19 PM, Margo Anderson wrote: > At 07:39 PM 12/27/2003 -0500, Penny Ladnier wrote: >> I wish I could train my kids to leave the scissors alone. > > Penny, try putting a small padlock through the finger loops! > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > > www.margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 13:57:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUIvUA2004658 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:57:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUItf4S024627; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:55:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUIwNqq056104; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:58:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [69.17.45.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUIwLqq056086 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:58:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (adsl-63-202-186-190.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.190]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 566282F893 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:58:59 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <029801c3cdf1$1c699600$0400a8c0@comcast.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com><001301c3cd1f$5e8c9e60$1b9eaec7@castlebooks> <003501c3cd56$95741480$34f54bab@Dan> <029801c3cdf1$1c699600$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] scissors Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:55:42 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com My new favorite scissors are the ones my school uses - KAI. They are light, the finger holes are sizeable, and they just work like a dream. I'm ordering two pair next month! http://www.kaiscissors.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 13:59:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUIxUA2004687 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:59:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUIws4S025027; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:58:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJ1aqq058184; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:01:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJ1Yqq058172 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:01:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AbP4s-0007nB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:58:50 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:59:07 -0700 Message-ID: <003c01c3cf07$00d4e9a0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <52659.198.134.51.14.1072807021.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Robert Trump books-where can you buy them? Was Loose Gown Sleeve X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:57 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loosegown sleeve-anyone else tried it? I did talk to Bob a couple of times to get permission to post images of the gloves his created on my gloves website and asked about this and he agreed that she did indeed state it. Bob is cool. :) Buy his books. [Sg] How do you buy his books? I thought they were not in print? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 14:01:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUJ1jA2004715 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:01:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUIxs4S025121; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:59:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJ2bqq058750; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:02:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJ2Yqq058661 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:02:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.155.2a84182d (2612) for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:59:42 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <155.2a84182d.2d23251e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:59:42 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose gown sleeve-anyone el... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com In a message dated 12/30/2003 12:30:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > But the patterns weren't meant to be blown up > and used (according to what she said) but used as rough ideas of how > the pattern pieces would work. > And why would you expect a pattern taken from a garment made especially for one individual in an era sans premade clothes to be more than a guide? Still, it's easy to understand how some things get just plain wrong. I mean look at "The Cut of Women's Clothes"! Still, these books are invaluable....IMHO of course. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 14:02:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUJ2pA2004718 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:02:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJ2C4S025307; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:02:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJ4sqq060000; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:04:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJ4rqq059984 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:04:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AbP85-0000uh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:02:09 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loosegown sleeve-anyone else tried it? Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:02:26 -0700 Message-ID: <003d01c3cf07$77497790$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <3FF1459A.10749.174974FE@localhost> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hBUJ4rqq059984 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com "You do need to have an inner "form" (which she calls the foundation) or the puffs hang and pull funny. Over that you need to have the puffed parts (which can be a full small puffed sleeve like you see in the Snow White cartoon) with the bands. (This is similar in construction to the pluderhosen/trunk hose where you have the basic pants, then poofy ones over it.) Then there is the separate "cuff" that goes on the bottom. Her basic pattern works, but I would not just blow it up. (Ignore the bit that says "shape of sleeve" because neither the pattern above it nor the real one on page 45 show a seam or decoration across the sleeve like "shape of sleeve" shows.)" [Sg] Yes, I just draped and drafted the inner sleeve. And I do understand that there is a cuff. After fiddling with it awhile, I noticed that her pattern makes a more rounded puff than the drawing would indicate (it is more like the actual garment). Her drawing looks more like something in between the very rounded sleeve cap and the stylized drawing (woodcut?) of the Belgian woman. "She didn't actually draft all those patterns, let alone try them out. After a lecture she did, several of us asked about the patterns. She said that her grad students often did the drafting and that she didn't have time to check them all. There are *many* errors throughout the patterns." [Sg] It is odd that she doesn't mention that specifically in her intro. (Other than thanking many people) She actually did sew. But the patterns weren't meant to be blown up and used (according to what she said) but used as rough ideas of how the pattern pieces would work. [Sg] Hmm, I can understand that they couldn't be used as is and would have to be fitted, but what is the point of providing to scale drawings...? When it is all said and done, I am very grateful for the drawings. I am at point in my own drafting and draping that I am able to just do it on my own. I guess I feel sorry for those who are just starting out who try to use the patterns. If you don't have confidence in your own abilities, you might walk away thinking there was something wrong with you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 14:08:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUJ8AA2004727 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:08:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJ7P4S025856; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:07:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJA6qq063562; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:10:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJA4qq063539 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:10:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AbPD5-0002KV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:07:19 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose gownsleeve-anyone el... Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:07:36 -0700 Message-ID: <003f01c3cf08$303d0820$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <155.2a84182d.2d23251e@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id hBUJA4qq063539 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com "And why would you expect a pattern taken from a garment made especially for one individual in an era sans premade clothes to be more than a guide? [Sg] I don't expect them to fit me per se, but I do expect that the pattern as is would give the shape described in the drawings...which they often do not. Still, it's easy to understand how some things get just plain wrong. I mean look at "The Cut of Women's Clothes"! Still, these books are invaluable....IMHO of course. ___________________________________________ [Sg] I don't disagree that they are invaluable. But I wouldn't publish patterns to scale that simply didn't work...that is just me of course! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 14:14:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUJEbA2004801 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:14:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJCj4S026240; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:12:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJFPqq066778; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:15:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJFHqq066667 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:15:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hBUJCSv28592 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:12:28 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:19:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose gown sleeve-anyone else tried it? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3FF1459A.10749.174974FE@localhost> Message-Id: <16AA8E3A-3AFD-11D8-A27F-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Greetings, I feel ever so much more vindicated now. I just couldn't figure out some of her patterns and basically drew the one I did, The Eleanora dress, from scratch. I am hoping to get to see the original this summer, but I can't decide on an era to study while I"m over there. it's the kid in a candy jar syndrome. :D Will you be at 12th Night? Sofia On Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 09:30 AM, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > >> Has anyone else tried to reproduce the loose gown short sleeve on page >> 45 & 46 sucessfully? I drafted, sewed it up-blech. Then I just blew >> her pattern up.same thing. > > I used a variation on it. > > You do need to have an inner "form" (which she calls the foundation) > or the puffs hang and pull funny. Over that you need to have the > puffed parts (which can be a full small puffed sleeve like you see in > the Snow White cartoon) with the bands. (This is similar in > construction to the pluderhosen/trunk hose where you have the basic > pants, then poofy ones over it.) Then there is the separate "cuff" > that goes on the bottom. Her basic pattern works, but I would not > just blow it up. (Ignore the bit that says "shape of sleeve" because > neither the pattern above it nor the real one on page 45 show a seam > or decoration across the sleeve like "shape of sleeve" shows.) > >> What was she thinking? Besides the obvious stuff like completely >> mismatched pieces, the shape produced looks very little like the >> actual sleeve. Every time I think I will save some time using her >> patterns, I am disappointed. >> >> Does anyone know if she really sewed at all? > > She didn't actually draft all those patterns, let alone try them out. > After a lecture she did, several of us asked about the patterns. She > said that her grad students often did the drafting and that she > didn't have time to check them all. There are *many* errors > throughout the patterns. > > For more specifics, try to get hold of a copy of Bob Trump's _The > Annotated Arnold_. He goes almost point by point through the entire > book showing where the errors are so that you can tell what does work > and what doesn't. > > She actually did sew. But the patterns weren't meant to be blown up > and used (according to what she said) but used as rough ideas of how > the pattern pieces would work. > > I think that the most hilarious "error" in the book is figure 14 on > page 5. That's the "arming sleeve" and they've got the thing > completely put together wrong! The drawings are totally bogus. (Well, > the one which says "sleevehead" at the top can be used, but not with > the matching marks that are shown. Match the straight part to > straight part on the upper sleeve and the curved part to the curved > part on the lower sleeve. Why they have the upper sleeve straight > part to the top of the lower sleeve is beyond me! When put together > correctly, it should look more like: > http://www.flg.es/museo/contenido/colecciones/pintura/8030.htm > (Although this particular sleeve was made slightly differently. It is > most likely made by using the sleeve from figure 29 on page 7 but > slashing it across instead of up and down the front the way figure 30 > shows it.) > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 14:41:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUJfKA2004862 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:41:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJeC4S029772; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:40:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJgrqq084760; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:42:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJgpqq084680 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:42:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBUJe61r018797 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:40:06 -0500 Message-ID: <00b301c3cf0c$ba778ca0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031230162519.8094.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> <3FF1AEB0.4030602@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:40:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com The men's tunic and undertunic pattern went together like a dream. I had to alter the undertunic's collar slightly but it was no big deal. I have a couple other patterns from them, but haven't used them yet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern > Bice d'Este wrote: > > > I rather like Rocking > > Horse myself but everyone I know really hates them. i've seen some other > > companies that are FAR worse. > > > > What is it that people don't like about Rocking Horse? They seem to have > a good selection of patterns. Are they badly drafted? Do they not fit? > Are the instructions bad? I have yet to find a pattern company that has > really good instructions. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 14:47:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUJl3A2004871 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:47:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJkS4S000378; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:46:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJnBqq088584; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:49:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from solomon.io.com (solomon.io.com [199.170.88.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUJn9qr088555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:49:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ches@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by solomon.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBUK0weq016010 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:00:58 -0600 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id hBUJkSub026277 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:46:28 -0600 Received: from 198.134.51.14 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:46:28 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <15860.198.134.51.14.1072813588.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:46:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robert Trump books-where can you buy them? Was Loose Gown Sleeve From: "Ches" To: In-Reply-To: <003c01c3cf07$00d4e9a0$6501a8c0@SG01> References: <52659.198.134.51.14.1072807021.squirrel@webmail.io.com> <003c01c3cf07$00d4e9a0$6501a8c0@SG01> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Contact him directly. I thought he was selling them through Quite Specific Media but might be wrong. I ordered mine directly through him. RWTrump@aol.com Bob Trump 3343 Commonwealth St. Louis, MO 63143-3505 Saragrace T. Knauf said: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:57 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loosegown > sleeve-anyone else tried it? > > I did talk to Bob a couple of times to get permission to post images of > the gloves his created on my gloves website and asked about this and he > agreed that she did indeed state it. Bob is cool. :) Buy his books. > > [Sg] How do you buy his books? I thought they were not in print? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Ches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 15:21:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUKLcA2005020 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:21:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUKL14S005323; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUKNhqq012145; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:23:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web60001.mail.yahoo.com (web60001.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.116.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBUKNeqq012072 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:23:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from beatricesidney@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031230202051.80364.qmail@web60001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.85.216.115] by web60001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:20:51 PST Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:20:51 -0800 (PST) From: Beatrice Sidney To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200312301900.hBUJ0Yqs057541@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Annotated Arnold X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Is this published? Does anyone have a full citation? Everyone I know who does serious Elizabethan has told me to get my hands on this, but no one can tell me how.... *sigh* Beatrice For more specifics, try to get hold of a copy of Bob Trump's _The Annotated Arnold_. He goes almost point by point through the entire book showing where the errors are so that you can tell what does work and what doesn't. It is said that knowledge comes only to those who seek it; but some knowledge pursues us without respite or mercy. English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammer. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 15:26:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUKQTA2005045 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:26:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUKPr4S005737; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:25:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUKSbqq015648; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:28:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBUKSZqq015637 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:28:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031230202551.29388.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:25:51 PST Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:25:51 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a pattern To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FF1AEB0.4030602@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I used the Rocking Horse pattern for the Regency Riding Habit.It was'nt too bad---I had to do a little 'futzing' with it to make it fit properly--(I'm about a size 16 )And the instructions were a little confusing. I would'nt recommend them for a 'sewing newby'. Albra Dawn wrote: Bice d'Este wrote: > I rather like Rocking > Horse myself but everyone I know really hates them. i've seen some other > companies that are FAR worse. > What is it that people don't like about Rocking Horse? They seem to have a good selection of patterns. Are they badly drafted? Do they not fit? Are the instructions bad? I have yet to find a pattern company that has really good instructions. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 15:35:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUKZNA2005078 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:35:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUKXV4S006436; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:33:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUKaDqq020070; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:36:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBUKaCqq020001 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:36:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OhUTHk+WjrBR3i0aCSGiJkA=">; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:33:14 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JJN4HHSU; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:33:14 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:28:42 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lighting and vision Message-ID: <20031230.123307.1768.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-11 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thank you for the help with the lights everyone! :-) Arlys On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:52:47 -0800 (PST) KATHRYN WOLTERS writes: > However, you can order these energy efficient bulbs from certain > 'energy conscious' catalogues with a different color spectrum, to > get a 'truer to life' spectrum of color. I suspect that would ease > your SAD effects as well.As soon as I run across that catalogue in > my mailbox I'll write you with the name . > Albra ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 15:45:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUKjrA2005146 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:45:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUKjH4S007390; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUKm0qq027015; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:48:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80411.mail.yahoo.com (web80411.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBUKlvqq026950 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:47:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jenniferfleury@sbcglobal.net) Message-ID: <20031230204508.80059.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.114.229.78] by web80411.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:45:08 PST Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:45:08 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Fleury To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200312301505.hBUF5Yqr016407@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: lighting, scissors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hello, everyone. Catching up on mail after holiday travel. I started having lots of trouble seeing color-on-color while trying to handsew or embroider about the time my husband remodeled the "sewing room" portion of the office. So we painted the room white and installed 2 flourescent fixtures on the ceiling, the kind used for garage work spaces, and put full spectrum bulbs in them. All the cabinetry is white and so are the blinds, everything reflects lights and with no addtional heat. A life saver! As for the scissors getting dull on paper-at work I use xacto blades to cut loads of paper, and wow do they get dull fast! When my husband and I were dating, we got into a big fight because he used my fabric scissors for paper. He argued that I was wrong and I informed him that wrong or not, they were MY scissors and if he had no respect for them, he wouldn't be asked back. He sort of acquiesced. I also tied a white ribbon to the handle and wrote "FABRIC ONLY" on it. Not long afterwards, he began sewing my wedding gown from silk and had to go buy a pair of good fabric scissors. Sheepishly. He's never admitted I was right, but we don't have a problem anymore. Jennifer Fleury Assistant Property Master "Century City" Universal Network Television _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 18:03:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUN38A2007642 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:03:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUN2M4S018651; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:02:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUN53qq009761; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:05:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUN4sqq009655 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:04:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be10.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.16]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9197C47FF7F for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:02:08 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001601c3cf28$fa741960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:02:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] bobbin lace patterns and sources X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Ysandra. I have scanned 6 large files for you with 9 old renaissance laces, pattern and drawing. They are old renaissance laces and some of them are construkted after a royal burrial at Roskilde Cathedral where some royal childrens coiffins was restored and examined. You asked about Neues Modelbook, and i must disapoint you here, because they are all needlework laces and not bobbin lace. Le Pompe is the only book wich has the old patterns, and then the book i got these patterns from wich is a danish lace book wich the danish lace guild published. So if i am going to send them for you, you must email me privately with your email address. My email is: drewscph@post12.tele.dk The way i used to make ruffs, i cut out 5-6 cirkles in the width i want to have my ruff. In the center of each cirkle you make another cirkle wich should be the same width as your neck. Then on the place where the cutting of the fabric is diagonal weave, i make a cut into the cirkle and cut out the inner cirkle. When you have done this to all 5 or 6 pieces, you sew them together so that it gets one piece. Then you make a neckband the hight you would like your ruff to be, and then you start to pleat the ruff together. I usually use 2 needles at the same time, one for the upper neckband, and one for the lower neckband.´ So you use a lot yardage for a real pleated ruff, i would say, but dont kill me as this is very individually and depends on the shape and size of the ruff, about 8-9 yards. But if you "only" wants to make this standing collar we have talked about, you would probably only have to use 1- 2 yards. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 18:25:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUNPoA2007665 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:25:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUNPD4S020517; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:25:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUNRwqq022742; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:27:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.225]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUNRtqq022652 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:27:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Received: from charter.net (c66.169.191.177.ts46v-16.ftwrth.tx.charter.com [66.169.191.177]) by mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBUNONkr010502 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:24:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Message-ID: <3FF20926.132F7584@charter.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:24:22 -0600 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dallas/Ft. Worth Costumers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hello everyone, It's been a while since I've written, but it's good to be back. I am trying to find a quality period clothier in the Dallas/Fort Worth area to help in dressing my family correctly. I know there must be a good renaissance seamstress or tailor out here somewhere. Anyone have any suggestions? We are placing ourselves in the Scottish highlands of the mid 1500's, and our persona's are nobles. Cheers, Joe _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 18:58:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBUNwNA2007723 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:58:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUNvl4S023477; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:57:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV00Vqq042239; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:00:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV00Nqq042185 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:00:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip136.207-173-125.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.125.136]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAEC66AC9C for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:57:35 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:57:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose gown sleeve-anyone el... Message-ID: <3FF1A082.8152.18AC9123@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <155.2a84182d.2d23251e@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > > But the patterns weren't meant to be blown up > > and used (according to what she said) but used as rough ideas of how > > the pattern pieces would work. > And why would you expect a pattern taken from a garment made > especially for one individual in an era sans premade clothes to be > more than a guide? I've never personally used them as more than a guide. (I generally draft my own fitting pattern then do flat pattern combined with some drape drafting to make my patterns. I just lay the pattern out to make sure that it looks like the same shape as the original.) But I know that many sewers want to be able to enlarge it and use it pretty much as is. > Still, it's easy to understand how some things get just plain wrong. I > mean look at "The Cut of Women's Clothes"! > > Still, these books are invaluable....IMHO of course. Definitely invaluable. But one does have to keep one's eyes and mind open to the fact that no one is perfect. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 19:02:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV022A2007736 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:02:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV01B4S023720; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:01:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV03uqq043972; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:03:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV03rqq043936 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:03:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from margo@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a85.directcon.net [207.215.72.85]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hBV06h617148; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:06:43 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031230155726.011f35f0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:57:26 -0800 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 885 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 10:01 AM 12/30/2003 -0500, Panther Grrl wrote: >Margo, did I understand correctly? Are the set of the second edition of Elizabethan Lady's patterns available now? No, it will be a few more weeks. I t could be less, once the good folks at Mcall's had patterns at my door less than ten days after sending the files, but usually it's a three week turnaround. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 19:16:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV0GFA2007794 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:16:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV0FZ4S024709; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:15:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV0IKqq051086; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:18:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV0IHqq051062 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:18:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip136.207-173-125.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.125.136]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306786A795 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:15:29 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:15:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loosegown sleeve-anyone else tried it? Message-ID: <3FF1A4B3.21871.18BCEEA6@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003d01c3cf07$77497790$6501a8c0@SG01> References: <3FF1459A.10749.174974FE@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [Sg] Yes, I just draped and drafted the inner sleeve. And I do > understand that there is a cuff. After fiddling with it awhile, I > noticed that her pattern makes a more rounded puff than the drawing > would indicate (it is more like the actual garment). Her drawing > looks more like something in between the very rounded sleeve cap and > the stylized drawing (woodcut?) of the Belgian woman. Go with what looks like the real thing, even if it isn't what her pattern came out. It sounds like you at least have the idea. > "She didn't actually draft all those patterns, let alone try them out. > After a lecture she did, several of us asked about the patterns. She > said that her grad students often did the drafting and that she didn't > have time to check them all. There are *many* errors throughout the > patterns." > > [Sg] It is odd that she doesn't mention that specifically in her > intro. (Other than thanking many people) >From what I've noticed, that's pretty common with some academics. She was saying that they didn't need to be mentioned because they are getting their degree in lieu of that sort of thing. (It's been many years, but that's the gist of what she said. I've heard the same thing from some others as well.) > She actually did sew. But the patterns weren't meant to be blown up > and used (according to what she said) but used as rough ideas of how > the pattern pieces would work. > > [Sg] Hmm, I can understand that they couldn't be used as is and would > have to be fitted, but what is the point of providing to scale > drawings...? I think that the "scale" is to give you an idea of the proportions, not to use for blowing up the pattern to make into a garment for someone else. > When it is all said and done, I am very grateful for the drawings. I > am at point in my own drafting and draping that I am able to just do > it on my own. I guess I feel sorry for those who are just starting out > who try to use the patterns. If you don't have confidence in your own > abilities, you might walk away thinking there was something wrong with > you! But the obverse of that coin is when you draft it for yourself, then lay out the pattern and notice that the shape is just like you see in Alcega, Buergen or the like. Or that what you make succeeds in looking just like the portraits and extant garments. It is tough to try doing garments of this sort when you are just starting to learn how to make Rennaissance clothing. Even with good patterns, it is sometimes difficult if you want it to be done with non-modern lines. Even with excellent patterns like the ones that Martha does, sometimes you need to do alterations to make them fit correctly. Many people don't have the ability to fit anything more complicated than a t-shirt. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 19:17:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV0H9A2007798 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:17:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV0GX4S024822; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:16:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV0JJqq051708; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:19:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV0IKqq051087 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:18:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip136.207-173-125.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.125.136]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE6826ACE8 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:15:31 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:15:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robert Trump books-where can you buy them? Was Loose Gown Sleeve Message-ID: <3FF1A4B3.11166.18BCED9D@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003c01c3cf07$00d4e9a0$6501a8c0@SG01> References: <52659.198.134.51.14.1072807021.squirrel@webmail.io.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [Sg] How do you buy his books? I thought they were not in print? They are still put out by Alfarhaugr press which is out of Eugene Oregon. They are pretty much an "on demand" printer, meaning that they print up a run when they get enough orders. The address in the front of my Doublet and Trunkhose book is: Alfarhaugr Publishing Society 1908 Oak Street Eugene OR 97405 I know that the person who used to handle it (and was instrumental in getting so many of Bob's books done by them) has a real job now so isn't doing as much as she used to. I think she handed it off to someone else. She sometimes reads this list, so she may be able to say if I've got the wrong address. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 19:29:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV0TNA2007825 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:29:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV0So4S025663; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:28:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV0VYqq058019; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:31:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV0VWqq057997 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:31:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@infotrope.net) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CCBB373AD for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:28:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AbUE9-0001rM-00 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:28:45 -0500 To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:28:45 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 17th century poodle hair X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I'm attending an event set in 1638, in a week and a half, and I want to do my hair like this: http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar4w.jpg http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar5w.jpg http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar6w.jpg I have a problem though - my hair is too long, too straight, and I don't have the bangs in front. I figure I can live without the bangs, but I don't know what to do about the length. I tried doing it with a curling iron today. When I curled my hair it still came to below my shoulders. So I got some hairpins and kind of hooked it up so it came to the right length. But then I still found that the curls I had were too ringletty and distinct, and not fluffy/soft enough for the look in the pictures. Has anyone ever done this hairstyle successfully, and if so how? My hair is about nipple length, fine but lots and lots of it, and slightly wavy. I have a 1/2" curling iron, various styling products, and a large collection of hairpins. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 19:52:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV0qsA2007921 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:52:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV0qL4S027177; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:52:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV0t6qq069914; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:55:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV0t4qq069901 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:55:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@infotrope.net) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371443749E for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:52:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AbUav-0001vu-00 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:52:17 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century poodle hair In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:52:16 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com And just to reply to myself... I took photos during my experiments this afternoon, which I have put here: http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/oop/1638/poodle/ The cap I'm wearing is a "hollar" cap based on the pattern in Kass's "Reconstructing History" set of patterns for 17th century caps. I need to figure out how to stop it sticking out sideways so much. Here's what it's meant to look like: http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar25w.jpg http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar26w.jpg http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar28w.jpg I think perhaps the lace would help weigh the edges down but I don't have any lace I like for the purpose. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 20:17:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV1HaA2007969 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:17:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV1H04S028971; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV1Jiqq082108; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:19:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV1Jfqr082088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:19:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBV1HCKY024600 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:17:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBV1HC4Z024598 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:17:12 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century poodle hair Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:17:11 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312302017.11794.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Tuesday 30 December 2003 07:28 pm, Kirrily Robert wrote: > I'm attending an event set in 1638, in a week and a half, and I want to > do my hair like this: > > http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/holl >ar4w.jpg > http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/holl >ar5w.jpg > http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/holl >ar6w.jpg > > I have a problem though - my hair is too long, too straight, and I don't > have the bangs in front. I figure I can live without the bangs, but I > don't know what to do about the length. Most of the mid-17th c. pics I've seen show at least 80% of the woman's hair fastened in a bun in back (either braided first, or not), and only a small portion of hair beside her face curled, or frizzed. I doubt you could get the right effect with your hair alone unless you were willing to cut a few locks in the front much shorter than they now are. So I have two suggestions: 1) Just fasten your hair in a bun in the back, put the Hollar cap on it, and don't worry about the lack of poodle curls (Yes, you'll be unfashionable, but I'm sure there were unfashionable women in period!) 2) Check out a beauty supply store or two to see whether you can locate a couple of hair pieces that match your hair color and give the right look. Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 21:09:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV29AA2008102 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:09:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV28O4S002193; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV2B5qq005994; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:11:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV2B3qq005976 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:11:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBV28FWJ024712 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:08:15 -0500 Message-ID: <022301c3cf42$f38ab1d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century poodle hair Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:08:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com You and I have the same problem even though we are doing different periods (I do the curls from Florentine portraits). You and I have the same hair! My Florentine looks a bit Victorian, but I am not going to cut my hair. I liked the pictures where you pinned it. It isn't perfect, but I think it looked well enough. :) Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century poodle hair > And just to reply to myself... > > I took photos during my experiments this afternoon, which I have put > here: http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/oop/1638/poodle/ > > The cap I'm wearing is a "hollar" cap based on the pattern in Kass's > "Reconstructing History" set of patterns for 17th century caps. I need > to figure out how to stop it sticking out sideways so much. Here's what > it's meant to look like: > > http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar25w.jpg > http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar26w.jpg > http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar28w.jpg > > I think perhaps the lace would help weigh the edges down but I don't > have any lace I like for the purpose. > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 21:16:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV2GgA2008119 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:16:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV2G34S002874; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV2Inqq009973; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:18:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV2Ilqq009950 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:18:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AbVtv-0002nw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:16:00 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 17th century poodle hair Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:16:17 -0700 Message-ID: <001301c3cf44$13287490$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <022301c3cf42$f38ab1d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I liked the pictures where you pinned it. It isn't perfect, but I think it looked well enough. :) Teena [Sg] I agree with Tina...I thought it looked pretty good! Will it last though? My girl friend has wicked straight hair that doesn't hold a curl for very long.... Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 21:21:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV2LbA2008139 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:21:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV2L04S003229; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV2Nlqq012125; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:23:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV2Njqr012101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:23:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net (acty5021.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.250.21]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hBV2KuC5017952 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:20:56 -0500 Message-ID: <3FF23284.4010105@dandy.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:20:52 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone tried a beaver bucket? References: <000c01c3ce85$e8759ca0$a22da5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <000c01c3ce85$e8759ca0$a22da5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi, All. Lisa, I would hope that a washtub could be gotten for less than that, especially since the ones shown were banded with steel, and not withy as would have been proper for you to use for 16th Cent. I know that iron banding was being done, as it shows up on ships manifests in the early 17th Cent. for things being shipped to the New World, but a coopered tub can be done with (slightly) slack coopering, letting the swelling of the wood close the gaps. I will look into some of my sources in Sweden, as we have some nicely coopered stuff at our site that was done there. I'm sure that, even with shipping, the cost won't be so much. You can occasionally find one at antique stores (where I got mine). There was once a fellow in my area that did any period coopering, but he doesn't do much anymore (Wroxall Cooper). Check around more, there has to be a better price... Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 21:56:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV2ufA2008219 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:56:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV2tB4S005881; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:55:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV2vvqq029294; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:57:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV2vtqq029273 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:57:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@infotrope.net) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3661B376D1 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:55:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AbWVn-000282-00 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:55:07 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century poodle hair In-Reply-To: <001301c3cf44$13287490$6501a8c0@SG01> References: <022301c3cf42$f38ab1d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> <001301c3cf44$13287490$6501a8c0@SG01> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:55:06 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [Sg] I agree with Tina...I thought it looked pretty good! Will it last > though? My girl friend has wicked straight hair that doesn't hold a curl > for very long.... Thanks! Mine holds a curl pretty well actually, it has a bit of natural curl at the worst of times, and I put some mousse in before curling it for the poodle style, and even now, 6 hours later after brushing it out thoroughly, it's still pretty curly. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 22:35:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV3ZnA2008322 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:35:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV3XZ4S008139; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:33:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV3aFqq046492; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:36:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV3aEqq046438 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:36:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.b2.26a48bee (15877) for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:33:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d26.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.167]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID74-3e053ff24377230; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:33:11 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:33:11 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century poodle hair MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <39198343.34CCF2A8.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Kirrily: I would suggest rolling the back in a bun, and with the front, try using a crimping iron and then brushing back a little, and spray, spray, spray. Also, you might want to try rag rolling. Afterwards, pin it like you did, that might give it a fluffier appearance. Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 23:25:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV4PoA2008421 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 23:25:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV4O14S010921; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV4Qmqq067484; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:26:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV4Qkqq067468 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:26:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-163-203-206.mn.rr.com [24.163.203.206]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBV4Nt5a029896 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:23:55 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20031230221432.02c8ad30@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:20:19 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century poodle hair In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi Kirrily, Actually, if you can, put the hair beside your face up in rags and the rest back in a bun. My hair is fine, slightly wavy and have lots of it, and is about 6" from my waist. At CostumeCon, Drea did my hair in rags and it was in tight ringlets all day. You don't even really need styling products, the curls just stay (I had trouble washing them out and my hair won't hold any other type of curl for more than 30 seconds). They also have the added advantage of being comfortable to sleep in and non-damaging to your hair. Good luck with it and have fun. Cheers, Danielle At 07:28 PM 12/30/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I'm attending an event set in 1638, in a week and a half, and I want to >do my hair like this: > >http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar4w.jpg >http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar5w.jpg >http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar6w.jpg > >I have a problem though - my hair is too long, too straight, and I don't >have the bangs in front. I figure I can live without the bangs, but I >don't know what to do about the length. > >I tried doing it with a curling iron today. When I curled my hair it >still came to below my shoulders. So I got some hairpins and kind of >hooked it up so it came to the right length. But then I still found >that the curls I had were too ringletty and distinct, and not >fluffy/soft enough for the look in the pictures. > >Has anyone ever done this hairstyle successfully, and if so how? > >My hair is about nipple length, fine but lots and lots of it, and >slightly wavy. I have a 1/2" curling iron, various styling products, >and a large collection of hairpins. > >K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Dec 30 23:54:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV4s6A2008521 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 23:54:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV4qI4S012394; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:52:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV4t3qq079212; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:55:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV4t1qq079171 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:55:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBV4qCPG004406 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:52:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.15] (tnt-1-79.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.15]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV4q9fl004320 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:52:11 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031229160552.66504.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031229160552.66504.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:48:06 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question on fur usage (12-14th cen, Tudor, Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com At 11:05 AM -0500 12/29/03, Kathy Page wrote: >There is an exant seal skin pair of breeches from the Viking era: > >http://www.viking-experience.co.uk/authenticity/basickit/basickit6.html > >Look for the Greenland breeches. Other than that, I would suspect >that the typical usage of seal fur would be like beaver and other >water mammals - hats, cloak linings, etc. The skin breeches I see on that page are the polar-bear skin ones given in Hald -- am I missing another mention somewhere? I'm a bit surprised to see the polar bear skin ones suggested as a model for Viking clothing. Hald includes them as comparative material in her discussion about the possible evolution of the trouser cut seen in several Iron Age garments, but the skin garment itself is of native Greenlander, not Viking, origin. In fact, I don't see any indication that it's a medieval survival, as opposed to something collected in more modern times. (She includes a number of modern "traditional" garments in her comparative discussions, so the question is open.) If you follow Hald's reasoning, she's suggesting that a handful of garments from the first couple of centuries of the common era may have inherited their particular cut from even earlier styles made from skins, where the cut was retained when the reason for it had been lost. This would put this hypothetical northern European skin-trouser style even earlier -- and even farther away from the Viking era. I wish that the Viking-Experience page mentioned a few of these issues, rather than giving the impression that these are "Viking polar bear skin trousers". Heather -- ***** Heather Rose (you may now call me Doctor) Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 03:34:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBV8YdA2002282 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 03:34:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV8Wi4S022402; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 01:32:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV8ZOqq067344; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 01:35:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [69.17.45.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBV8ZLqq067319 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 01:35:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (adsl-63-202-186-190.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.190]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F4D2F893 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:35:44 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: References: <022301c3cf42$f38ab1d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> <001301c3cf44$13287490$6501a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century poodle hair Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:32:25 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com a 1/2 inch curling iron is quite large. I'd look for smaller rollers, or I'd trying using rag curls (and pinning back most of it, as suggested by others). On Dec 30, 2003, at 6:55 PM, Kirrily Robert wrote: >> [Sg] I agree with Tina...I thought it looked pretty good! Will it >> last >> though? My girl friend has wicked straight hair that doesn't hold a >> curl >> for very long.... > > Thanks! Mine holds a curl pretty well actually, it has a bit of > natural > curl at the worst of times, and I put some mousse in before curling it > for the poodle style, and even now, 6 hours later after brushing it out > thoroughly, it's still pretty curly. > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 05:44:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVAi8A2002890 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 05:44:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVAhY4S027477; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 03:43:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVAkNqq016872; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 03:46:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVAkLqq016814 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 03:46:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E893119FA81 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:43:20 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FF2A9B9.1040206@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:49:29 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <022301c3cf42$f38ab1d0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> <001301c3cf44$13287490$6501a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Hi, What are rag curls?? Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 11:11:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVGBKA2004551 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:11:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVG7B4S014898; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:07:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVG9wqq049680; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:09:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9401.mail.yahoo.com (web9401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBVG9uqq049665 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:09:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031231160701.95844.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 08:07:01 PST Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 08:07:01 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3FF2A9B9.1040206@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Yes, I was curious about that , too--- Albra Deredere Galbraith wrote: Hi, What are rag curls?? Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 11:29:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVGTjA2004636 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:29:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGT84S016403; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGW2qq060970; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:32:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12901.mail.yahoo.com (web12901.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.68]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBVGW0qq060943 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:32:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20031231162905.32098.qmail@web12901.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.48.41.31] by web12901.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:29:05 EST Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:29:05 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hundred and One questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Di wrote: ....but keep in mind Veronica Franco was a Courtesan. She was born in 1546, died 1591. A somewhat romantic movie about her life called Dangerous Beauty is worth watching. I personally can not locate the pictures or the artist you have found. It is reasonable to think these were sketched at a later date..... Been there, read the book, seen the movie, discussed it in detail. One of my personas in the SCA is a Venetian courtesan, hence the purpose of my research. On an OT note, I am writing a story based on my research on this period of history in the Veneto. (which is where my persona sprung from, really) Forgive my confusing everyone by listing 4 engravings, but giving details on two. The pair of engravings I listed urls for, I don't know who created them, just when, and that is only the beginning of my issues with them. Giacomo Franco (that I am aware, simply a coincidence of names, not related to Veronica) is the artist for the engravings found in QEWU, and they too, are dated within the late 1500's, giving credence to this ruff/collar existing in period. I would hazard that they are ALL Franco's work, the style, appearance and repetitive poses of the figures all look much the same to me. Yes, it does seem that the one from the Terze Rima is an updated portrait of Veronica. Her real age and the appearance of her in this don't match. Likely the artist updated the fashion and stuck a younger face on the body. I have a scan of the two others in question, and I will try to upload them so you can see all four that I am talking about, so my meandering verbosity starts making more sense. :-) Bjarne wrote: ....Not knowing the artist, but it is towards 1600 (my guess).... Yes, the Terze Rima engraving is dated 1576. The other - offhand, I can't remember, but I know that it's in the same ballpark. I had to give QEWU back to the library 2 days ago (drat!* see below) and it dated the Franco engravings to 1610. *If anyone who has a copy of that book could do me a favour, I need the source quotation for the tailor's shop woodcut. I found it here so it can be matched- http://renaissance.dm.net/compendium/art/tailor.jpg I forgot to write it all down before returning the book. Thanks! .....My guess would be that it could be embroidered pattern, and maybe also beaded pattern. I dont think it would have ben other colours than white, like the pointed lace wich goes in the edge of the standing collar. The lace also has spangels attached in the points, these could be silver or gold. It was much used to add spangels into lace. It was worked into the lace, while making the lace..... There's dozens of possibilities, just in native decorative needlework alone. I had originally had it down to smocking because of the lozenge pattern, but that is far too bulky. I had it down to some sort of pullwork or filet/lacis of some variety. I think I could go either way with it, really. I had planned on working in black pearls into the lace along the neckline of both the ruff/collar and the partlet. I doubted the monochrome/polychrome option as well. ....As i told you earlyer, this is a wired collar. There is wire sewed all along the edge where the lace is attached. It would have ben starched as well, so that it gets as stiff as possible, to stand alone.... That's what I said too, the first time I saw it. It reminded me of this: http://www.farthingales.on.ca/elizabethan_wired_ruff.html But debate on another message list had me convinced otherwise. There was a valid point made though, when one brings in painted portraiture from that same era, we see a very different brand of collar/ruff. http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/Lido1574.jpg http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/RobustiWhite.jpg http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/Montemezzano2.jpg I had found a couple of bits from the French de Medicis (Marie and Margot in particular) that rang very familiar to the engraved collar which gave life to my theory that it is a French import. Since I am unable to locate a convienient repository of French portraiture, I am having difficulty proving my theory. Those shown above, though, makes it look like the engravings are misdated to post-1600. ....Corset there is, definately!... I agree.... but what shape would it take, given the ample real estate showing in the decolletage? My best opinion is an underbust cincher sort of affair, but that would sit hard on the hips and would dig particularly once the weight of the gown was on it. I just can't explain how the weight would be distributed to make it comfortable. ....I am no expert for this period, but i would say yes, it would be parted in bodice and skirt.... That's what I said, but like you, I am more of an expert in later eras, so come to those who know more than I for advice. ...Do you mean that you would make the lace for yourself?... Yes, I have taught myself punto in aria, and plan on giving that a crack for the cuffs at the very least. I have been looking for documentable examples of it, and found this delightful repository of lace photos, but can't open them, much to my frustration. Go to google and search the images for _ricami_ and look for the photos listed at the doge.it site... they are wonderful, but google has cached them, and the site has, for whatever reason, taken them down. I have emailed them in hopes of getting more info, but it's a long shot at best. Bobbin lace?I have a beautifull pointed renaissance pattern you could have, if you like! I don't have the supplies right now for bobbin lace unfortunately. And, I have a 2 year old daughter that likes _helping_ Mommy by pulling pins out of projects - so bobbin lace is out until she's a bit older. :-) Kat wrote: ....the cut of the garments is very definitely Italian. See _Vecellio's Renaissance Costume Book_, put out by Dover books for some engravings done at the time when Veronica Franco lived.... The dress itself, for certain it's Italian, that wasn't in question, just the ruff/collar. I _think_ I have a goodly portion of those engravings from various and sundry places, and am using some of them as reference materials. I really _should_ get the book however, to get proper dating. I believe though that I tripped on a French costume by Vecellio, and it bore a very familiar resemblance to the Italian. This however, isn't the be all to end all of proof, it could simply be the artist's familiarity with local fashion showing through. ....He doesn't show up in Artcyclopedia under that name, unfortunately. The book on Veronica Franco doesn't mention anyone named Giacomo Franco..... I hope I clarified the confusion earlier in my post. Giacomo's work is dated to 1610, not the 1576 of the Terze Rima. ...The partlet was probably white but the weave was often times very ornate and could be embroidered as well, which would give it more texture. I suspect that the engraver was trying to capture a texture rather than a different color. The partlets of this type tend to be white, not colored.... That's what I thought too, also my current theory that the partlet not only covered up skin, but also gave support to the bustline. Lace of any kind would need a backing of some type to handle that kind of stress on it for any length of time. ....There are several types of supportasses in this period. Some were of wire and were separate from the ruff and partlet. They were designed to fit under the clothes and sometimes to lace to the clothes themselves (not with "lace" but with lacings.) Some were silk covered pasteboard (such as the ones in the V&A in London.) Those would usually be laced to the dress in the back.... As the one I showed earlier is designed. The portraits I later showed in this post, one is loose and more informal obviously not supported by much other than the shoulders (Montemezzano), the others (Lido and Robusti) are stiffened and lifted from the shoulder at a low angle, which is why I wondered. I did find a French bit that showed the supportasse, but it is a Racinet, and thus highly questionable. ...This contributed to the odd shape that the dresses in Italy (compared to the rest of Europe) of the time had.... That would explain why although they are large yet not _rolly_, referring back to my assertion that the padding intended to create the peascod shaping also muffled the fluffiness of the wearer. Still though, I have a hard time figuring out how they supported the breasts with essentially nothing? There has to be something holding them in place, the bodice rides far too low to give any real lift, that I can see. ...As to a shoulderstrap, I suspect it is there but hidden by the floofy stuff.... The dress had a shoulderstrap, it's the corset that I am wondering about. Apparently Alcega's book has a suitable pattern in it for this variety of bodice and it shows a shoulderstrap, it just tends to disappear in the profusion of do-dads attached to the shoulders. ....But the "dress" seems to be more common.... Im still trying to get a hold of a copy of these books for my permanent collection. At least I know that it wasn't implausible, just unlikely. ....See Margaret Abegg's _Apropos Patterns_, Anne Kraatz _Lace History and Fashion_, Janine Montupet and Ghilsaine Schoeller's _Lace The Elegant Web_, and Santina Levey's _Lace A History_.... Thank you for these references, I'll have a go at finding them. ....Netting is seen in partlets but usually not filled in like you see with fillet lace (which it sounds like you are learning). And they tended to be of larger thread (large enough so that you can see the knots in the gold thread.) Most of the fillet lace type of netting seems to be more for home decoration..... That is what I am learning, yes. Having discussed it with an experienced filet lace maker, she suggested something akin to crochet cotton. She also asserted that it't not gold thread because it would wreak havoc during the knotting process. Perhaps it was spangled at the knot, like Bjarne suggested? Or simply a gold coloured silk thread? Looking at the Montemazzano painting, her partlet could go one of two ways IMHO- filet lace or pullwork, due to its repetitive square-like pattern. .....Sounds like you are going just as deep as many of us on this list tend to do. You'll probably get several different opinions on things unless people are too busy with their "non-list" lives..... That's okay, I welcome it. I firmly believe that my opinion isn't the only one, just as long as other opinions have proof. ;-) LOL Really, though, I prefer having several opinions, then whittling away at them until there seems a general consensus on what was _most likely_. A lot of my work tends to head into the experimental archaeology because I go out of my way to find things that haven't been done, or so rarely that it begs further exploration. I'm just stubborn that way. :-) CarolynKayta wrote: ...Also, as I recall, wasn't Elonora of Toledo found to have been buried in an actual corset? OK, not Venetian but close.... Not quite, but yes, there were _stays_ found on her. There was no apparent stiffening other than the velvet fabric, rather like a tightly laced under kirtle from other periods in terms of body shaping. Yes, not Venetian, but that extant costume, along with Alcega's patterns have been adopted as suitable basis for Venetian based, portrait-supported repros. ....I don't think they could/did wash these garments, one piece or two..... My thought was the situation of a hemline getting dirty, but that topic was discussed above. Not to mention that the hems were well out of harms way while wearing chopines. My thinking was more modern than not. By the time I am finished with this dress, washing it will be rare, despite the durability of the fabrics involved. Kathy You talk too much, you laugh too loud, that's the price of love. ~ Brian Ferry ~ --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 11:43:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVGhOA2004709 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:43:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGgl4S017461; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:42:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGjfqq068195; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:45:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGjbqq068127 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:45:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.18d.23f60dff (14374) for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:42:26 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <18d.23f60dff.2d245672@aol.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:42:26 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Rag curling is when they use strips of cloth to wrap your hair around (like rollers). Your hair could be wet or dry (wet is better for setting long-lasting curls, but not always necessary). You then take a strip of cloth, maybe 2" in diameter, 6-8" long, and roll your hair up around the rag, tying it off at the top of your head. If you want larger diametered curls, use wider strips. This is what they used for centuries. Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 11:45:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVGjeA2004725 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:45:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGj44S017682; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGlwqq069517; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:47:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [69.17.45.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGluqq069498 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:47:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (adsl-63-202-186-190.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.190]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C63AC2F893 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 08:48:21 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <20031231160701.95844.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031231160701.95844.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 08:45:05 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sadly, the site with the best pictures is now gone (Marci's retro hair!) but here's a good description: http://www.hairboutique.com/tips/tip049.htm On Dec 31, 2003, at 8:07 AM, KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > Yes, I was curious about that , too--- > Albra > > Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > What are rag curls?? > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 11:50:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVGovA2004753 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:50:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGoM4S018103; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:50:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGrFqq072522; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:53:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGrDqq072498 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:53:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip120.208-187-50.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [208.187.50.120]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 890976A591 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 08:50:17 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 08:50:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair Message-ID: <3FF28DDD.30002.1C4BBB05@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031231160701.95844.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3FF2A9B9.1040206@kabelfoon.nl> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > What are rag curls?? Rag curls are those made by using rags as the "hair roller". A similar effect can be made by using the foam type of hair roller (as opposed to the rigid types.) Basically, you wind the long hair over the roller when it is wet (or use "product". We used the old "DippityDo"), and tie the rag to itself and let it dry. When you take it down you get sausage curls until you brush them out. Once it's brushed out it looks more wavy. I once did it in college and left the rags in too long. I ended up looking like I had a lion's mane because the curls had become so tight that it wouldn't relax enough even when I brushed it. (The humidity was very low, or even after 2 days in curlers it wouldn't have done that.) When it needed to be washed, I had to wet it little by little to keep it from making rasta-locks. (Of course, in 1973 we really didn't know all that much about rasta-locks.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 11:53:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVGrpA2004761 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:53:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGrG4S018340; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:53:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGuBqq073925; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:56:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVGu9qq073917 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:56:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-64.158.113.11.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([64.158.113.11] helo=4gxif) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Abjar-0006DJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:53:14 -0500 Message-ID: <015701c3cfbe$ab101680$0b719e40@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031231160701.95844.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:53:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com The site below has instructions for doing rag curls. Looks easy enough. -Helen/Aidan http://www.nocturne.com/swing/hair/rag-curlers/rag-curlers.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 12:08:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVH8YA2004805 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:08:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVH7v4S019389; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:07:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVHApqq082966; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:10:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVHAnqq082901 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:10:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2003123117074801600eraele>; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:07:48 +0000 Message-ID: <3FF3026E.5090508@fenris.net> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:07:58 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone tried a beaver bucket? References: <000c01c3ce85$e8759ca0$a22da5d1@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <000c01c3ce85$e8759ca0$a22da5d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Lisa Sinervo wrote: >I'm passing on book buying at the moment as I need a good washtub for my starch house re-creation (Yes, I'd still like to do a tailor's shop but that I'm going to have to grow into - I'm starting smaller). Beaver buckets http://www.beaverbuckets.com/WashTubs.htm has a very nice oak washtub for $250 - yes I do need to diet!!! But I was wondering if anyone has ever used such a tub before. Anyone know of any better prices? I would like a nice quality one. > > > http://www.5rivers.org/ ? liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 12:11:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVHBUA2004814 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:11:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVHAs4S019637; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:10:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVHDmqq084421; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:13:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVHDkqq084400 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:13:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id hBVHAoWJ016452 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:10:50 -0500 Message-ID: <008c01c3cfc1$0a9858e0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FF2A9B9.1040206@kabelfoon.nl> <3FF28DDD.30002.1C4BBB05@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:10:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com I did that in high school once except it was pin curls, not rag curls. Oh my! My hair is so thick that I looked like Rosanne Rosannadanna! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair > I once did it in college and left the rags in too long. I ended up > looking like I had a lion's mane because the curls had become so > tight that it wouldn't relax enough even when I brushed it. (The > humidity was very low, or even after 2 days in curlers it wouldn't > have done that.) When it needed to be washed, I had to wet it little > by little to keep it from making rasta-locks. (Of course, in 1973 we > really didn't know all that much about rasta-locks.) > > Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 12:13:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVHD0A2004818 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:13:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVHCB4S019781; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:12:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVHF5qq085194; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:15:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lycos.com (www2.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.150]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBVHEhqq084871 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:14:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from panthergirl@mailcity.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:11:23 -0000 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:11:23 -0500 From: "Panther Grrl" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 X-Sender-Ip: 38.118.10.117 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Rag Curls... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com My grandmother taught me to make rag curls, and my hair is waist length. Her method was tough for me as a beginner, so here is a modified 'beginner's' method; 1.)I do this at night, but I know it won't be dry the first morning (length/thickness of hair), 2.)Wash and dry your hair until it is damp, 3.)Start out w/ a long strips of cotton fabric/ribbon, and a pencil, 4.)Place one strip of cotton fabric along the pencil, and roll small sections of your hair around the pencil and fabric and up as close to your head as possible, 5.)Tie the two ends of the cotton ribbon together, in a bow or something that will survive the night 6.)I need to leave mine for anther day, so I use a nice velvet solid snood, 7.)When unraveled, its absolutely gorgeous, rippling curls down to just past my shoulders. The lovely spiral curls too... ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 12:34:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVHYIA2004865 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:34:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVHXe4S021596; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:33:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVHaVqq096937; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:36:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBVHaSqq096920 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:36:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031231173332.74436.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:33:32 PST Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:33:32 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thanks for the link , Heather. Nature has certainly NOT given me everything I could wish for---butShe did give me lots of curl. So, I had'nt really paid too much attention to 'how to get curls' before:) Albra Heather Meadows wrote: Sadly, the site with the best pictures is now gone (Marci's retro hair!) but here's a good description: http://www.hairboutique.com/tips/tip049.htm On Dec 31, 2003, at 8:07 AM, KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > Yes, I was curious about that , too--- > Albra > > Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > What are rag curls?? > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 13:02:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVI2KA2004934 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:02:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVI1k4S023836; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:01:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVI4eqq012739; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:04:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVI4cqq012657 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:04:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.159.2ad58e0c (14374) for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:01:33 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <159.2ad58e0c.2d2468fd@aol.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:01:33 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com There's a story about Haydn [yes, I mean the 18th century composer], who's married life was not one of bliss. Think Mr. and Mrs. Bennet in "Pride and Prejudice". Anyway, Papa Haydn awakes one morning to discover Madam Haydn has torn up some of his manuscripts to curl her hair. Paper being rag back then you can see how with pins it might be used to make cylindrical curlers. There's a vocal quartet composed by Haydn in 1786 entitled "Die Harmonie in der Ehe". The music about the harmony of married life is more than a little ironic. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 13:18:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVIIoA2004985 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:18:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVII04S025083; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVIKrqq021636; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:20:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVIKnqq021556 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:20:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D8E0425CE for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:26:59 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FF312AA.4080503@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:17:14 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rag Curls... References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Panther Grrl wrote: > My grandmother taught me to make rag curls, and my hair is waist length. What does that take? About 4 hours? The last time I had my hair set it took that long, as mine is also waist length and very full. When it is only to the middle of my back I can get it in large modern rollers in about an hour. Unfortunately, that's all the longer it stays curled, too. :/ Setting hair the old fashioned way really brings home how labor intensive getting ready for an important social event was before the advent of electric curlers. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume