From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 14:01:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVJ1jA2005222 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:01:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVJ154S029273; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:01:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVJ3xqq045439; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:03:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVJ3vqq045404 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:03:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAD311A300DA; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:52:03 -0500 Message-ID: <001d01c3cfd1$14039740$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:05:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My marginal gifts include "Killing Time" (Scott Martin; Leisure and culture in SW Pa, 1800-1850). Also, " The Secret Eye", a journal of a woman of the South written during the Civil War . My husband found "Couture Culture", which is a study in modern art and fashion. Nancy Troy presents this mostly 20th C discussion. My other daughter traveled to Thailand last year and presented my with some wonderful textiles and trims that she got in the Hill country. While in DC, I found a 'bargain' copy of The Virgin Mary which shows how she was imagined from the earliest time into the 20th C. Interesting resource. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 10:45 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? > Well- marginally costume-related. I got a reproduction of the 1768-1771 > original edition of the encyclopedia Brittanica. I'm sure there must be > some clothing-related entries in there somewhere. I've only gotten as far as > the first of the three volumes, so far. > -Megan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 14:33:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVJXWA2005297 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:33:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVJWs4S001740; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:32:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVJZlqq062023; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:35:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVJZjqq062007 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:35:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A247174500DA; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:23:51 -0500 Message-ID: <00bc01c3cfd5$8577a3e0$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20031227014426.057f09d0@mail.frys.com> <027b01c3cded$49bd6cc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:37:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have three pair of these. Since I cut all kinds of fabric in the shop, I often find myself up short when a really sharp pair is required; there for, I will go out and pick up another pair to tide me over until the sharpener is in town. My biggest problem is however, that the spring has a way of snapping. Of course, the notions counter does not stock them. I have found that if I send them back to Fiscars that they will replace the spring and send me a few spares. When the same thing happened to the snippers, they even sent me a new pair! along with the repaired set. Great service! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 4:22 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: scissors > My expensive pair are Fiskars Softouch and are spring loaded. They do not > have the two holes for the fingers. You can see them here: > http://www.westons.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Fiskars__Softouch__Scissors_644.html > I am left handed but do all my cutting with my right hand. For years I > turned normal scissors upside down to cut. My costume professor suggested > that I switch to the Softouch... then they cost about $45. I see on this > webpage they are $37.50 now. I have had this pair for about seven years and > not needed to sharpen them yet. But I don't sew all the time. They do take > some time to get used to using them... but it is worth it. My hand no > longer hurts when I cut out things, even heavy fabrics. The other nice > thing about the scissors is that they will lock into place with the switch > of a button. Its the orange thing on the scissors image. The pads on the > handles are really nice too. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 14:43:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVJhKA2005307 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:43:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVJgU4S002436; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:42:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVJjPqq066810; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:45:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVJjLqq066776 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:45:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A487F5A8014A; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:33:27 -0500 Message-ID: <010c01c3cfd6$dcca43e0$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <32322860.1072729696709.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:47:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Urban legend or not, I find that cutting fake fur a lot ( as in animal costumes) seemed to affect the blades more that paper. Also, buckram, pellon and others of this type . Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Laning" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 3:28 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: scissors > Carol wrote: > > > Scissors are thought to get duller faster if you use them to cut paper (I > >don't know if this is true or not). > > I've been wondering about this for a while. I know that it's often claimed that paper dulls good scissors, but has anyone ever run across any hard evidence one way or the other? Or is this an Urban Sewing Legend? > > >More importantly, paper scissors are often > >not cared for very well, and as "lesser" scissors might be used to cut a thin > >bit of wire, they might hit a staple, etc. This causes nicks in the blade > >that, when cutting fabric, will skip cutting a thread. When cutting a thin > >silk, it's REALLY maddening! But scissors with nicks in the blades will still > >cut most paper just fine. > > Now THOSE are really _good_ points. > > I remember hearing once (again, this may just be a legend :) that someone took a survey on the question: "What's the one thing you remember your mother always saying?" Some incredibly high percentage (like 70%?) of people answered with "Not my good sewing scissors!" > > (As usual, I had to be different: it's "Brush your hair, dear.") > > ____________________________________________________________ > 0 Chris Laning > | > + Davis, California > ____________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 14:58:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVJwHA2005352 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:58:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVJvq4S003434; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:57:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVK0lqq074764; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:00:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVK0kqq074695 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:00:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 493425 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:57:44 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:57:43 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors (and my new plans for my Softouchs) From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00bc01c3cfd5$8577a3e0$665183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This spring problem - and solution - with the Fiskars is a really good thing to know. I love my Softouch scissors and I'd hate to be without them, but I could use my old 'best' Weiss scissors while they were away for repairs. I'm going to need those scissors really soon. I just found out that my husband wants to join a single action shooting society in California and plans to take us all to their big 'shoot' at the end of April. Now I'm looking at Laughing Moon's patterns for his outfit. Thank goodness my corset and bustle are already made, and I have already designed a dress for myself and have the fabric. He needs a complete outfit; his 1870s British Navy clothes won't do him any good at this event, and my girls need outfits too. The planning is the part of costuming I like the best! LynnD (where are my back-up scissors?) On 12/31/03 11:37 AM, "Lloyd Mitchell" wrote: > I have three pair of these. Since I cut all kinds of fabric in the shop, I > often find myself up short when a really sharp pair is required; there for, > I will go out and pick up another pair to tide me over until the sharpener > is in town. My biggest problem is however, that the spring has a way of > snapping. Of course, the notions counter does not stock them. I have found > that if I send them back to Fiscars that they will replace the spring and > send me a few spares. When the same thing happened to the snippers, they > even sent me a new pair! along with the repaired set. Great service! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Penny Ladnier" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 4:22 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Re: scissors > > >> My expensive pair are Fiskars Softouch and are spring loaded. They do not >> have the two holes for the fingers. You can see them here: >> > http://www.westons.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Fiskars__Softouch__Scissors_6 > 44.html >> I am left handed but do all my cutting with my right hand. For years I >> turned normal scissors upside down to cut. My costume professor suggested >> that I switch to the Softouch... then they cost about $45. I see on this >> webpage they are $37.50 now. I have had this pair for about seven years > and >> not needed to sharpen them yet. But I don't sew all the time. They do > take >> some time to get used to using them... but it is worth it. My hand no >> longer hurts when I cut out things, even heavy fabrics. The other nice >> thing about the scissors is that they will lock into place with the switch >> of a button. Its the orange thing on the scissors image. The pads on the >> handles are really nice too. >> >> Penny Ladnier >> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >> www.costumegallery.com >> www.costumeclassroom.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 15:06:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVK6JA2005368 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:06:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVK5q4S004087; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:05:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVK8lqq079000; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:08:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVK8iqq078860 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:08:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 493439 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:05:40 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:05:40 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <010c01c3cfd6$dcca43e0$665183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree! Several years ago I worked at the teddy bear factory in San Francisco where they usually cut several layers of fur at a time with a band saw made for textiles. The blades had to be replaced really often because of the polyester fur. Even our big shears, used when we needed an extra paw or ear or two, needed sharpening monthly. Nothing could keep an edge with that stuff, and we used the best quality fake fur around at the time. We pretty much had two pairs of scissors for each of us - one to work with and one being sharpened at any given time. And poly batting is just as bad! However, when convincing my family to stay away from my scissors, I don't mention poly being so hard on scissors. LynnD On 12/31/03 11:47 AM, "Lloyd Mitchell" wrote: > Urban legend or not, I find that cutting fake fur a lot ( as in animal > costumes) seemed to affect the blades more that paper. Also, buckram, > pellon and others of this type . > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Laning" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 3:28 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Re: scissors > > >> Carol wrote: >> >>> Scissors are thought to get duller faster if you use them to cut paper > (I >>> don't know if this is true or not). >> >> I've been wondering about this for a while. I know that it's often claimed > that paper dulls good scissors, but has anyone ever run across any hard > evidence one way or the other? Or is this an Urban Sewing Legend? >> >>> More importantly, paper scissors are often >>> not cared for very well, and as "lesser" scissors might be used to cut a > thin >>> bit of wire, they might hit a staple, etc. This causes nicks in the > blade >>> that, when cutting fabric, will skip cutting a thread. When cutting a > thin >>> silk, it's REALLY maddening! But scissors with nicks in the blades will > still >>> cut most paper just fine. >> >> Now THOSE are really _good_ points. >> >> I remember hearing once (again, this may just be a legend :) that someone > took a survey on the question: "What's the one thing you remember your > mother always saying?" Some incredibly high percentage (like 70%?) of people > answered with "Not my good sewing scissors!" >> >> (As usual, I had to be different: it's "Brush your hair, dear.") >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> 0 Chris Laning >> | >> + Davis, California >> ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 15:41:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVKfWA2005466 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:41:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVKd04S006515; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVKftqq095471; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:41:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVKfrqq095426 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:41:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.42.43d2f060 (4402) for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:38:47 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <42.43d2f060.2d248dd7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:38:47 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors (and my new plans for my Softouchs) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 12/31/2003 3:00:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, LDownward@chori.org writes: My biggest problem is however, that the spring has a way of > snapping. I've never had this problem, and I got my first pair about 7 years ago. Maybe I don't use them enough, and I very seldom cut really heavy stuff. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 15:43:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVKhSA2005473 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:43:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVKgt4S006949; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:42:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVKjoqq097600; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:45:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVKjnqq097586 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:45:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.14]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVKgo4i014827 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:42:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20031231123413.052f4ed0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:35:09 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose gown sleeve-anyone else tried it? In-Reply-To: <52659.198.134.51.14.1072807021.squirrel@webmail.io.com> References: <3FF1459A.10749.174974FE@localhost> <001f01c3ce7f$c16cd750$6501a8c0@SG01> <3FF1459A.10749.174974FE@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I am not a professional. But my father runs a museum in deep south Texas. >I know, big whoop, but they have textiles there. Don't sell yourself short. Yes big whoop, for every serious museum anywhere. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 16:49:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVLn3A2005620 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 16:49:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVLkS4S011962; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:46:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVLnNqq028771; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:49:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVLnMqq028756 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:49:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from theresa@misc.com) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBVMuAgI013576 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:56:10 -0800 Message-ID: <3FF343CF.6020301@misc.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:46:55 -0800 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? References: <032701c3cc44$6bfea9c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3FED9AA4.4090407@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Christmas was, in general, a little lean this year but, for me, a most wonderful early gift was being chosen for the Grand Prize at the Dicken's Faire Costume Competition this year!!! My husband took some photos spanning the 3 weekends that we went: http://www.misc.com/costumes/Dickens_0312/index.php I'm in the second-to-last row, middle picture, of the photo page. I'm in the striped maroon/pink/yellow dress with the chevroned bodice. This whole thing took 6 months to assemble, with the encouragement/advice, along the way, of my husband, of a world-class historical costumer, and from Kayta Barrows at the Faire itself!! Theresa Eacker _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 16:51:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVLpHA2005627 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 16:51:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVLoh4S012245; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:50:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVLreqq030792; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:53:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVLrcqq030775 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:53:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AboEa-00022a-00; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:50:32 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:50:59 -0700 Message-ID: <002001c3cfe8$2dbb5580$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: thefrazzledfrau@yahoogroups.com, GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com Subject: [h-cost] Anyone seen portraits with sleeves like these? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for the cross posts.. http://www.forum-hes.nl/forum/main_stocklist.phtml/view/5959?view=yes I am looking for portraits with sleeves similar to the one at the above link. This is supposedly a Belgian woman. I am referring to the short sleeves on the loose gown of the woman second to the left. The Phoenix Portrait is as close as I have come..anyone else? Saragrace _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 16:51:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVLpxA2005631 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 16:51:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVLpM4S012310; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:51:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVLsKqq031089; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:54:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVLsHqq031073 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:54:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AboFD-0002P3-00; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:51:11 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:51:39 -0700 Message-ID: <002501c3cfe8$4559a110$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: thefrazzledfrau@yahoogroups.com, GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com Subject: [h-cost] RE: Anyone seen portraits with sleeves like these? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I should specify that I am looking specifically for the high arched sleeve cap. -----Original Message----- From: Saragrace T. Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 2:51 PM To: 'h-costume@mail.indra.com' Cc: 'thefrazzledfrau@yahoogroups.com'; 'GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com' Subject: Anyone seen portraits with sleeves like these? Sorry for the cross posts.. http://www.forum-hes.nl/forum/main_stocklist.phtml/view/5959?view=yes I am looking for portraits with sleeves similar to the one at the above link. This is supposedly a Belgian woman. I am referring to the short sleeves on the loose gown of the woman second to the left. The Phoenix Portrait is as close as I have come..anyone else? Saragrace _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 16:56:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVLuqA2005645 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 16:56:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVLuI4S012565; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:56:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVLxFqq033332; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:59:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBVLxDqq033281 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:59:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCuR+vSpN0UftTOdB5GKD/SA7cibgWuy3Hw==">; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:56:01 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JJRTMS53; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:56:01 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:54:14 -0600 Message-ID: <20031231.155414.-461161.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-10,12-38 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dickens Faire Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's a really terrific dress! I haven't made anything from that era yet, but I certainly admire your skills in getting those stripes to make those gorgeous chevrons. And the total look is very fetching, you look like a fashion print from the period. Well done! Karen On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:46:55 -0800 Theresa Eacker writes: > Christmas was, in general, a little lean this year but, for me, a > most > wonderful early gift was being chosen for the Grand Prize at the > Dicken's Faire Costume Competition this year!!! > > My husband took some photos spanning the 3 weekends that we went: > > http://www.misc.com/costumes/Dickens_0312/index.php > > I'm in the second-to-last row, middle picture, of the photo page. > I'm in > the striped maroon/pink/yellow dress with the chevroned bodice. > > This whole thing took 6 months to assemble, with the > encouragement/advice, along the way, of my husband, of a world-class > > historical costumer, and from Kayta Barrows at the Faire itself!! > > > Theresa Eacker > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 17:16:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVMGeA2005664 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:16:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVMG34S013695; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVMIxqq042803; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:18:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from blizzard.mengwong.com (postfix@blizzard.mengwong.com [208.210.125.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVMIuqq042774 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:18:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@blizzard.mengwong.com) Received: by blizzard.mengwong.com (Postfix, from userid 3001) id E8F9A61AD5; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:15:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:15:57 -0500 From: Kirrily Skud Robert To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Anyone seen portraits with sleeves like these? Message-ID: <20031231221557.GA28684@infotrope.net> References: <002501c3cfe8$4559a110$6501a8c0@SG01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <002501c3cfe8$4559a110$6501a8c0@SG01> X-Message-Flag: System error: operating system manufacturer corrupt. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Cc: thefrazzledfrau@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@net.indra.com, GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This one is similar: http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/image.mhtml?image_id=6 K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 17:16:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVMGnA2005667 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:16:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVMGF4S013725; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:16:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVMJCqq042958; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:19:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from blizzard.mengwong.com (postfix@blizzard.mengwong.com [208.210.125.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVMIuqq042775 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:18:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@blizzard.mengwong.com) Received: by blizzard.mengwong.com (Postfix, from userid 3001) id E8F9A61AD5; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:15:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:15:57 -0500 From: Kirrily Skud Robert To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Anyone seen portraits with sleeves like these? Message-ID: <20031231221557.GA28684@infotrope.net> References: <002501c3cfe8$4559a110$6501a8c0@SG01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <002501c3cfe8$4559a110$6501a8c0@SG01> X-Message-Flag: System error: operating system manufacturer corrupt. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Cc: thefrazzledfrau@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@net.indra.com, GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This one is similar: http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/image.mhtml?image_id=6 K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 17:19:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVMJLA2005674 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:19:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVMIi4S014007; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:18:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVMLeqq044291; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:21:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBVMLcqq044224 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:21:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCuR+vSpN0Uft6a2EkVr2mMTjVTq1ZKgEtA==">; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:18:20 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JJRUWM9Z; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:18:20 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 16:16:43 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen portraits with sleeves like these? Message-ID: <20031231.161643.-461161.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,5-14,16-31,33-57 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The term I am familiar with for those sleeves is 'mahoitered' and they are fairly common on English, Spanish, and French fashions of the 1560's and 70's. I don't have any online sources to hand but here are some literary references- "Elizabethan Pagentry" by H.K. Morse Page 23: Portait of a Lady by Antonio Moro Page 27: Young Woman 1564 by Lucas Cranach the Younger Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd by Janet Arnold Page 7: #6 Queen Elizabeth receiving the Dutch Ambassadors (1570-75) the ladies sitting on the floor to the right of the painting all seem to have mahoitered sleeves. Page 55: #93 Unknown Lady Aged 29 (1557) by Hans Eworth Page 133: #211 Pierre de Moucheron and Wife- detail (1563) Page 134: #212 Lady Anne Penruddocke Aged 20 (1557) by Hans Eworth Page 139: #222 Lady Aged 30, Called Queen Elizabeth (1563) Anonymous Page 140: #224 Margaret of Parma (1562) by Antonio Mor Page 154: #243 Queen E and the # Goddesses-detail (1569) by HE That should get you started! 8-) Karen On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:50:59 -0700 "Saragrace T. Knauf" writes: > Sorry for the cross posts.. > > > > http://www.forum-hes.nl/forum/main_stocklist.phtml/view/5959?view=yes > > > > I am looking for portraits with sleeves similar to the one at the > above > link. This is supposedly a Belgian woman. I am referring to the > short > sleeves on the loose gown of the woman second to the left. The > Phoenix > Portrait is as close as I have come..anyone else? > > > Saragrace > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 17:22:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVMMvA2005682 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:22:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVMMN4S014297; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:22:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVMPKqq046016; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:25:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hBVMPIqq045956 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:25:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCuR+vSpN0UftvCNFGb/vYfOa6Vlcsljfdw==">; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:21:31 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JJRU4GY6; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:21:31 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 16:20:29 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Anyone seen portraits with sleeves like these? Message-ID: <20031231.162029.-461161.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,8-18 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And this one, too. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/image.mhtml?image_id=84 Karen On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:15:57 -0500 Kirrily Skud Robert writes: > > This one is similar: > http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/image.mhtml?image_id=6 > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 18:21:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBVNLeA2005789 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 18:21:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVNKu4S017905; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 16:20:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVNNpqq071390; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 16:23:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBVNNoqq071379 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 16:23:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from margo@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14b9.directcon.net [209.79.208.9]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hBVNQV606103; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:26:31 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031231151707.011da8c0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:17:07 -0800 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen portraits with sleeves like these? In-Reply-To: <20031231.161643.-461161.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been working out the patterning of this sleeve style for inclusion in my upcoming loose gown pattern. The Arnold rendition, admittedly, doesn't match up well and produces an "off" shape. This may be in part due to the fact that it's a reconstruction of a centuries old garment. Anyone who's ever tried to take a pattern off a garment that's been well worn knows how fabric can distort with time ansd wearing, so I suppose it's not surprising that this sleeve may have done so. However, the pieces as shown in Arnold do give a clue as to how to pattern this sleeve. What I've come up with is a three part sleeve. No fullness is added at either the armsceye or the sleeve's lower edge, it's all in the middle of the three sections, which swell out in a sort of "vase" shape to give ienough fullness to create the high, almost peaked sleeve cap. This swelling could be cut with a pointed shape if a very extreme peaked cap is desired. A separate band is sewn to the lower edge to make a cuff. The vertical seams are covered with trim, or can have bands of fabric inserted between them, which seems to be what's happeninmg on the Arnold sleeve. The whole thing is tacked to a base sleeve and the space between the two is stuffed to keep the shape. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 20:23:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i011NoA2006018 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:23:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i011NE4S025254; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 18:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i011QBqq017456; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 18:26:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i011Q3qq017402 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 18:26:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip89.207-173-124.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.124.89]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B33C06ADA2 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:23:02 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:23:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cussin' Janet Arnold again...Women's loose gown sleeve-anyone else tried it? Message-ID: <3FF30609.5870.1E21253F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20031231123413.052f4ed0@mail.frys.com> References: <52659.198.134.51.14.1072807021.squirrel@webmail.io.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I talked to the lady who handles the Bob Trump books (Annotated Arnold and Doublet and Trunkhose at least) and she said that the address I gave for Alfarhaugr Press is no longer correct. She said that Bob can handle them (and those requests he doesn't want to handle personally he sends to her). So, Bob is probably the first best choice. (She's extremely busy these days and asked that I not put her address or name on the list.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 21:18:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i012IoA2006128 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:18:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i012IG4S028696; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:18:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i012LEqq038265; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:21:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf20.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf20.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i012LCqq038224 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:21:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Received: from charter.net (c66.169.191.177.ts46v-16.ftwrth.tx.charter.com [66.169.191.177]) by mxsf20.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i012HhA6009594 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:17:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Message-ID: <3FF38346.17ECBEB2@charter.net> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:17:42 -0600 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ft. Worth area costumer X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anyone know of a good period clothier in the Dallas/Fort Worth area? I'm in Hurst and I need someone that can pull off mid 1500's Scottish highland nobility correctly. I have to clothe myself, the wife, an 11 year old son, a 3 1/2 year old daughter, and eventually a mother in law. :o) Cheers, Joe _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 21:59:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i012x9A2006182 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:59:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i012wX4S000490; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:58:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0131Qqq052352; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:01:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0131Nqq052331 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:01:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Abt2L-000442-00; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 18:58:13 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:58:22 -0700 Message-ID: <001201c3d013$1e51cfe0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <149.1f721de1.2d24a01a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Mahoitered or Manhoitered sleeve was:Anyone seen portraits with sleeves like these? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i012x9A2006182 Status: RO This is a combined response to several different lists. Yes, thank you.you are correct. It is a new word for me. I couldn't find it (either spelling) in the OED or Middle English Compendium. A web search on either spelling (Mahoitered) Each only turns up one hit.... The only book I have found it in thus far is the Pictorial Encyclopedia of Fashion where they are described as 'padded and bolster shoulders'. This book says it was most exaggerated in Burgundian fashions. The picture they use to illustrate it is from a 15th century playing card.which strikes me as Burgundian or German though the book doesn't say where it is from. This picture is on page 526 of my edition and here the shape is achieved with heavy gathering in the sleeve cap. I have managed to recreate the more stylized version without the gathering...but it is achieved by using a two part sleeve. Thanks for your help all, I will report back with what I find. Sg -----Original Message----- From: Georgeren2@aol.com [mailto:Georgeren2@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 2:57 PM To: thefrazzledfrau@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [F-Frau] Anyone seen portraits with sleeves like these? In a message dated 12/31/2003 1:51:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, saragrace@earthlink.net writes: http://www.forum-hes.nl/forum/main_stocklist.phtml/view/5959?view=yes Aren't those Manhoitered Sleeves? Patrice Betancur [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thefrazzledfrau/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: thefrazzledfrau-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 22:28:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i013SWA2006240 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:28:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i013Rv4S001538; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:27:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i013Uvqq063574; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:30:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i013Utqq063563 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:30:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AbtUv-0004CL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:27:46 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:27:55 -0700 Message-ID: <003501c3d017$3ee7cdf0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031231151707.011da8c0@pop.directcon.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i013Utqq063563 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Loose Gown sleeve-POF...Margo... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Which shape are you trying to get to Margo? I've noticed that sleeve in the photo of the extant gown is more rounded than the way she draws it, and that the pattern leans that way as well. I like the shape that she drew and see it in several different portraits. (Of course there are variations all over). I have succeeded in producing the very stylized shape (from the Bruyn woodcuts on pages 9 and 45) with a two part sleeve. The part attached to the top of the armscye itself is shaped much like a crescent roll. Then the other part (which is not gathered either) is attached to that....there is a band of boning that runs over the seam from one side of the arm to the other.... I too have set it over a 'normal' base sleeve and stuffed it.... This is fun!! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 4:17 PM To: Historical Costume; h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen portraits with sleeves like these? I've been working out the patterning of this sleeve style for inclusion in my upcoming loose gown pattern. The Arnold rendition, admittedly, doesn't match up well and produces an "off" shape. This may be in part due to the fact that it's a reconstruction of a centuries old garment. Anyone who's ever tried to take a pattern off a garment that's been well worn knows how fabric can distort with time ansd wearing, so I suppose it's not surprising that this sleeve may have done so. However, the pieces as shown in Arnold do give a clue as to how to pattern this sleeve. What I've come up with is a three part sleeve. No fullness is added at either the armsceye or the sleeve's lower edge, it's all in the middle of the three sections, which swell out in a sort of "vase" shape to give ienough fullness to create the high, almost peaked sleeve cap. This swelling could be cut with a pointed shape if a very extreme peaked cap is desired. A separate band is sewn to the lower edge to make a cuff. The vertical seams are covered with trim, or can have bands of fabric inserted between them, which seems to be what's happeninmg on the Arnold sleeve. The whole thing is tacked to a base sleeve and the space between the two is stuffed to keep the shape. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 22:47:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i013lIA2006329 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:47:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i013ka4S002413; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:46:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i013nYqq069851; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:49:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i013nWqq069769 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:49:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i013kGG2016021 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:46:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031231224306.0691d008@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:45:35 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat's rag curls and Teena's pin-curls and suddenly I think we're beginning to date ourselves! I used to use the foam rollers to do banana curls when I was in grade school, but by the time I was in 8th grade (1973-74), stick-straight hair was the "in" thing, and we used to *wrap* our hair to make it straight! Shortly after that, blow-driers became common (as did the "wedge" cut), and hardly any of my peers *ever* bothered with rollers after that! Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 22:48:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i013mqA2006337 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:48:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i013mK4S002517; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:48:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i013pKqq070465; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:51:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i013pIqq070413 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:51:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i013m3Ev016584 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:48:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031231083317.00a1f008@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 08:42:43 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: scissors In-Reply-To: <200312281900.hBSJ0eqr082287@net.indra.com> References: <200312281900.hBSJ0eqr082287@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:06:17 EST, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: >I'm left-handed, and got a pair of Wiss shears for my birthday years ago. >They were my shears of choice until I discovered Ginghers. Note to all right-handers: because most dressmaker shears have molded handles, lefties *need* left-handed shears. The right-handed ones will leave a lefty with nasty open blisters on her thumb knuckle, plus very sore hands. Learning this from painful experience as my hands grew to "adult" size got me my first pair of left-handed dressmaker shears (Singers) for my 12th birthday. These are by and large my favorite *dressmaker shears*. >I understand that Ginghers are the only shears to reverse the blades as >well as the handles for left-handers. I've used Ginghers (and own two pair), but I can't *stand* the reversed blades! I find the reversed blades force me to cut on the wrong side of the cutting line where I can't see the cutting line so I don't know what I'm cutting. VERY bad... >Meantime, I won as a door prize a pair of the Fiskars with squeeze handles >that look kind of >like garden shears. I love these and tend to use them more than my Ginghers. >Handedness is not a big issue with them, Frank got me a set of these (large and small) several years ago. They're really nice, except that as they get older, the lock that keeps them closed gets weak, and they'll pop open at the slightest provocation. Though I did find that Fiskars makes inexpensive sheathes for them which are available at Jo-Ann's... >And as to pinking shears, the Ginghers are the ONLY left-handed pair I have >found that works at all. I've never gotten into pinking shears. If a fabric is so unstable that it needs its edges finished, pinking them is *not* going to help, in my experience, so I don't use the pinking shears. OTOH, I suspect they could work well for notching outside-curve seams quickly? Mostly, I find pinking shears too heavy and hard to use, though... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Dec 31 23:28:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i014SqA2006546 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:28:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i014SD4S004341; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:28:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i014VCqq083783; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:31:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i014VAqq083770 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:31:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i014S90E005139 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:28:09 -0500 Message-ID: <022501c3d01f$a8da0590$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.0.0.22.0.20031231224306.0691d008@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:28:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey now... I was trying to be retro! ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda Bell" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 10:45 PM Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair > Kat's rag curls and Teena's pin-curls and suddenly I think we're beginning > to date ourselves! > > I used to use the foam rollers to do banana curls when I was in grade > school, but by the time I was in 8th grade (1973-74), stick-straight hair > was the "in" thing, and we used to *wrap* our hair to make it straight! > Shortly after that, blow-driers became common (as did the "wedge" cut), and > hardly any of my peers *ever* bothered with rollers after that! > > > Brenda > webwarren@earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 1 00:39:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i015dsA2007020 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 00:39:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i015dI4S006683; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i015ecqq004993; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:40:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i015dlqq004729 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:40:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQS006F4Q99ZE@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:36:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:33:13 -0800 From: Kimiko Small In-reply-to: <3FF30609.5870.1E21253F@localhost> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031231212336.01dbd718@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <4.3.1.2.20031231123413.052f4ed0@mail.frys.com> <52659.198.134.51.14.1072807021.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bob Trunk and Green Duck Designs... was Cussin' Janet Arnold again... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:23 PM 12/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I talked to the lady who handles the Bob Trump books (Annotated >Arnold and Doublet and Trunkhose at least) and she said that the >address I gave for Alfarhaugr Press is no longer correct. She said >that Bob can handle them (and those requests he doesn't want to >handle personally he sends to her). So, Bob is probably the first >best choice. (She's extremely busy these days and asked that I not >put her address or name on the list.) > >Kat > Hi Kat and all, I have the Doublet and Trunkhose book, which I bought from Green Duck Designs a few years ago when they were at a local Ren Faire. I really like that book, and was going to use it for my husband's new garb. I thought Green Duck had an online store, but I don't see that anymore. Anyone know what happened to them, because I thought maybe they would be an alternate source for the Bob Trump books. Now I am interested in the Annotated Arnold book. Kat, do you have contact info for Bob for his books? I may have missed it if it was posted. Or another source for the books? TIA, Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 1 00:40:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i015eOA2007030 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 00:40:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i015dp4S006732; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:39:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i015gqqq006184; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:42:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i015dlqs004729 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:40:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQS006F4Q99ZE@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:36:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:34:02 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ft. Worth area costumer In-reply-to: <3FF38346.17ECBEB2@charter.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031231213320.01dc9a40@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:17 PM 12/31/2003 -0600, you wrote: > Anyone know of a good period clothier in the Dallas/Fort Worth area? >I'm in Hurst and I need someone that can pull off mid 1500's Scottish >highland nobility correctly. I have to clothe myself, the wife, an 11 >year old son, a 3 1/2 year old daughter, and eventually a mother in >law. :o) >Cheers, >Joe I sure wish I did Joe. If I hear of anyone from a friend of mine who grew up in the area, I will pass it on. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 1 00:40:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i015eSA2007034 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 00:40:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i015ds4S006746; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:39:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i015guqq006207; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:42:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i015f1qq005091 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:41:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQS005CXQBAY0@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:37:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:35:19 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-reply-to: <3FF343CF.6020301@misc.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031231213432.01dc46f8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <032701c3cc44$6bfea9c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3FED9AA4.4090407@reddawn.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:46 PM 12/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Christmas was, in general, a little lean this year but, for me, a most >wonderful early gift was being chosen for the Grand Prize at the Dicken's >Faire Costume Competition this year!!! Wow Theresa, that is an incredible dress. Congratulations! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 1 06:09:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i01B9ZA2001314 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 06:09:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01B8v4S018286; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 04:08:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01BBvqq096997; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 04:11:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from copper.wightman.on.ca (copper.wightman.ca [216.249.0.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01BBuqq096986 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 04:11:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by copper.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629463F8DD for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 06:08:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by copper.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id 157AD3F8DB for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 06:08:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003901c3d057$9bfbabc0$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200312311612.hBVGCAqr050757@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 06:08:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Anyone tried a beaver bucket? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not quite sure why we're discussing cooperage on an historic costume list, but hey, who am I to quibble? :-) > Hi, All. Lisa, I would hope that a washtub could be gotten for less than > that, especially since the ones shown were banded with steel, and not > withy as would have been proper for you to use for 16th Cent. Withy (or withe) hooping, as steel, is appropriate, according to our extensive research, back into Roman times. Withe hooping is inherently unstable, and from what our research indicates was used primarly in areas where access to more durable steel (iron) hooping was not, and as protective hooping over the chime and bulge (or bilge) hoops on double-headed casks (barrels, etc.) One must be careful when observing woodcuts, paintings and sketches as much of what appears to be withe hooping (appearing as half-round hoops) is in fact forged iron rod, flatened on one side. In artists' renderings this hooping often is mistaken by modern eyes as withe. That is not to say withe wasn't used. It definitely was. Just not quite with the proliferation, we believe, as many would have us believe. I know > that iron banding was being done, as it shows up on ships manifests in > the early 17th Cent. for things being shipped to the New World, but a > coopered tub can be done with (slightly) slack coopering, letting the > swelling of the wood close the gaps. Sorry to disagree here, but slack cooperage is never meant to be water-tight. It was and is today considered low-end cooperage, one-use cooperage for the shipment of goods such as salted fish, pork, beef, nails, powder kegs - in short any sort of commodity requiring a container. Moreover, if one is dealing with oak cooperage, which most quality tight cooperage is (there are certainly exceptions depending upon region and use), while there can be a great deal of movement in the staves, generally casks were and are never allowed to dry out. Pine cooperage, mostly appearing in the form of whiteware (domestic cooperage such as tubs, pails, buckets, etc.) is far more forgiving of the drying process. It should be noted most slack cooperage was and is produced from pine and spruce. For anyone interested in how to take care of cooperage I suggest you visit our website. We have posted an information page for people on the Care of Cooperage. And as a sidebar, and what would appear to be a blatant plug, we produce and ship some of the finest historical cooperage in North America, supplying re-enactors, museums and living history sites such as Fort Delaware, Sharlot Hall, Mansker's Station, Grand Portage, L'anse aux Meadows, to name a few. The waiting list is long, I'm afraid, 11 months at this point, but we believe worth the wait. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 1 10:02:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i01F2BA2001958 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 10:02:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01F1I4S009435; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 08:01:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01F4Kqq075054; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 08:04:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01F43qq074939 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 08:04:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-44-252.jps.net ([209.165.44.252] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ac4Jj-0004YH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 07:00:56 -0800 Message-ID: <000801c3d079$2a822ba0$fc2ca5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200312311612.hBVGCAqr050757@net.indra.com> <003901c3d057$9bfbabc0$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> Subject: tinted starches for ruffs- Re: [h-cost] Re: Anyone tried a beaver bucket? Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 07:08:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lorina wrote: > Not quite sure why we're discussing cooperage on an historic costume > list, but hey, who am I to quibble? :-) > Thanks for the info. I had a look at your site and the tubs are very nice. (I need them for washing ruffs at faire as in the Apes Monkeying the Fashion Engraving) The waiting list might be a problem for me as I am making a decided effort to get a Starch House up and running for the next fair season. This weekend (minus Friday) I'm working on developing some tinted starches made from natural dyes. It's the subject of my new blog - http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/cfblog/index.cfm and I'm sort of winging it lacking any references for tinting starch but I'll see what I come up with. I'd be interested in hearing any tips from anyone who was ever tried this before or something similar, references would be great! I have done quite a bit of research on the starch industry but not the dyeing industry which might shed some light on this process. At the moment I have a range of dye material* and am soaking/boiling it or whatever according to the recommendations in the book "Wild Color" by Jenny Dean for extracting color and straining it to get the waste out then will mix the coloured water with starch and dehydrate it, leaving tinted starch. I also plan on just getting the pigment into water adding starch and cooking it right there and then for use, but I'd like to actually produce tinted starch to have on hand at fair as it could be purchased by the pound for use by laundresses back in the 16th century. Also, lacking pictorial evidence of coloured ruffs, I have no idea just how dark the tinted starch should be or how colourful the finished ruff.. It's going to be trial and error and personal judgement I think. Always interested in hearing the opionions of others!! Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com * saffron, safflower petals, cherry bark, comfrey leaves, turmick, hisbiscus flowers, rubarb root and will pick up some indigo and madder root on Saturday. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 1 12:45:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i01HjuA2002454 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 12:45:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01Hj84S016986; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 10:45:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01Hm9qq025219; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 10:48:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01Hm2qq025191 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 10:48:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip133.207-173-164.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.164.133]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 153246D8A2 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 09:44:53 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:45:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bob Trump and Green Duck Designs... was Cussin' Janet Arnold again... Message-ID: <3FF3EC28.22764.21A410F7@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20031231212336.01dbd718@64.87.54.245> References: <3FF30609.5870.1E21253F@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Now I am interested in the Annotated Arnold book. Kat, do you have > contact info for Bob for his books? I may have missed it if it was > posted. Or another source for the books? I wasn't the one who posted that information. Perhaps she'll do it again. (Since I haven't personally asked him for permission to give it out, I'll leave that to someone who has done so.) As far as I know, Green Duck is now completely defunct. His wife still sells limited books at events as "Jane's Books" but I know they haven't been asking for shipments from Alfarhaugr. I'll send your message on to my contact at Alfarhaugr while you are waiting for Bob's Address. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 1 12:55:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i01HtEA2002486 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 12:55:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01Hsd4S017610; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 10:54:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01Hvlqq028481; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 10:57:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01Hvjqq028475 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 10:57:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip133.207-173-164.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.164.133]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC83F6D8CD for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 09:54:35 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:54:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair Message-ID: <3FF3EE71.7871.21ACFE7C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <022501c3d01f$a8da0590$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hey now... I was trying to be retro! ;-) > > > Kat's rag curls and Teena's pin-curls and suddenly I think we're > > beginning to date ourselves! Hey, I'm proud that I've made it intact to the age I am! I've never had much luck with pin-curls even when my hair was short (which was only 3 times in my life). My hair is far too heavy to stay put without a lot of "product." And the last time I used "product" to that extent (to get that slicked-back look from 1998) I ended up with major hair damage from it. It didn't look like there was anything in it that could do it, but the hair bleached out and then cracked off. I ended up having to have short hair for the 3rd time, and believe me, I wasn't happy about it! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 1 15:59:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i01KxQA2003308 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 15:59:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01KwY4S027018; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 13:58:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01L1dqq091521; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 14:01:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i01L0xqq091340 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 14:00:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i01KvkWJ001428 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 15:57:46 -0500 Message-ID: <03b401c3d0a9$e8710fc0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FF3EE71.7871.21ACFE7C@localhost> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 15:57:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Rag curls?? was:17th century poodle hair > > > Hey now... I was trying to be retro! ;-) > > > > > Kat's rag curls and Teena's pin-curls and suddenly I think we're > > > beginning to date ourselves! > > Hey, I'm proud that I've made it intact to the age I am! > I am proud to be the age I am too! I was 29 again this year! It reminds me of a scene from the show The Nanny: Girl: How old are you, Fran? Fran: Let's put it this way... When you are 20, I'll be 40. And when you are 30, I'll be 40. And when you are 40, you'll understand why I'm still 40. OCC: I have been wearing clothing for... err.... 29 years. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 1 21:07:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0227FA2004355 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 21:07:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0225K4S012231; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 19:05:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0228Qqq093501; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 19:08:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from traknetfs5.traknet.com ([64.9.82.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0228Nqq093487 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 19:08:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from beads@traknet.com) Received: from WorkingGirl ([64.9.82.188]) by traknetfs5.traknet.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 1 Jan 2004 21:01:49 -0500 From: "Margaret Baird " To: Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 21:25:05 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c3d0d7$a2c32570$bc520940@WorkingGirl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200312311901.hBVJ1Bqs044069@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jan 2004 02:01:50.0515 (UTC) FILETIME=[62C3D030:01C3D0D4] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Rag curls X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, I remember rag curls. Ouch! From the time I was 4 until I was about 7 my mother put my hair up in rag curls every Saturday night and then my father would take them out Sunday morning (boy was I grumpy Sunday mornings, never did manage to sleep well with those darn knots all over my head) and carefully comb each curl so tht I looked like Shirley Temple(no I'm not that old). I then got to spend the next 36 hours delighting in making my curls bob and bounce. Margaret _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 1 23:30:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i024UOA2004759 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 23:30:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i024TM4S019881; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 21:29:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i024WWqq043246; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 21:32:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i024WUqr043230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 21:32:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net (acty1200.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.200]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i024TEsA003838 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 23:29:14 -0500 Message-ID: <3FF4F394.1040100@dandy.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 23:29:08 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Anyone tried a beaver bucket? References: <200312311612.hBVGCAqr050757@net.indra.com> <003901c3d057$9bfbabc0$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> In-Reply-To: <003901c3d057$9bfbabc0$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Sorry for the misnomer, Lorina is correct, slack cooperage is for dried goods, not wet. I used it in a non-proper way because I couldn't think of another way to explain the idea that cooperage is meant to be kept wet, and that withies are certainly less constricting than bands. However, I will disagree heartily with the idea that iron bands (whether d shaped or otherwise) are in any way representative of withy. There are plenty of archaeological finds that show cooperage with withies prior to the 17th Cent., (Mary Rose, Venetian/Yugoslavian, Dutch, German, etc.) and none that I know of off the top of my head besides Viking age (Oseborg) that have either iron bands or forged iron rods (besides the many well-painted representations from a number of well-known painters of the Renaissance that show what I had always understood to be withy banding). The manifests that I refer to as being early 17th Cent. were used by Plimoth Plantation when explaining their use of banded cooperage, especially since one of their main characters at the site is a cooper, but they also have representations of withied cooperage there. The abovementioned material from the Mary Rose et al are actually archaeological deposits I am referring to, as opposed to paintings and engravings. On the other side, however, Lorina, this is in no way taking away from your well made products. I just find the notion that paintings of cooperage with withy hoops, backed up by archaeological evidence of the same, could be mistaken for iron rod stock, especially in an age that, while iron was not such a dear commodity as we may have been led to believe in our gradeschools, was still useful enough to not be wasted (or not fashioned in a way as to conserve materials) when other materials or methods would suffice. Please don't take this as an affront in any way, I just wanted to correct any errors in understanding I might have created. On a historical costuming note, though, I am always amazed how modern perceptions of methods of manufacture of all aspects of clothing culture, from felt for hats to leather for shoes, weaving to lacemaking, affect how we all see and value our past. The recent posting of a Viking woman's dress interested me to look at the whole site. I was also looking at an english Viking group's site, and their authenticity person was telling the story of how they went from a group interested only in fighting (how to make gauntlets and helms) to a group that would be proud to go to schools and public events and call themselves Vikings. He admitted that it was based mostly on the available evidence (in this case archaeological, mostly, as accurate pictorial representations of clothing and such were rare to nonexistant). I am looking forward to speaking to Robin Netherton when I get to her lecture, as this area is one of her specialties (art as representation rather than fact). Cheers, Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 1 23:51:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i024p5A2004850 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 23:51:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i024oV4S020771; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 21:50:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i024riqq050833; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 21:53:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i024rhqq050818 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 21:53:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.14]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i024oRHq000239 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 20:50:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040101204716.05877100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 20:50:23 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-Reply-To: <3FF343CF.6020301@misc.com> References: <032701c3cc44$6bfea9c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3FED9AA4.4090407@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Christmas was, in general, a little lean this year but, for me, a most >wonderful early gift was being chosen for the Grand Prize at the Dicken's >Faire Costume Competition this year!!! > >My husband took some photos spanning the 3 weekends that we went: > >http://www.misc.com/costumes/Dickens_0312/index.php > >I'm in the second-to-last row, middle picture, of the photo page. I'm in >the striped maroon/pink/yellow dress with the chevroned bodice. > >This whole thing took 6 months to assemble, with the encouragement/advice, >along the way, of my husband, of a world-class historical costumer, and >from Kayta Barrows at the Faire itself!! I'm in the third row from the top inn the right-hand column, in another chevroned-1840-bodice dress, red and blue paisley stripe on white, with a printed down-market fake paisley shawl (period for lowlifes like my Dickens' character). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 00:45:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i025jZA2004952 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 00:45:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i025iv4S023535; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 22:44:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i025m5qq070362; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 22:48:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mprdmxin.myway.com (nn1.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i025m2qq070302 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 22:48:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 8AD7F394F; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 00:44:35 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Received: from [142.161.156.70] by mprdmailfe3.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 00:44:35 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 93752ec3b2f1555f91cfd8e08f1f9dbc From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Message-Id: <20040102054435.8AD7F394F@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 00:44:35 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] bobbin lace X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, Anyone have a source for bobbin lace? The lace trim that I could use for edging. I've been searching around and can only find completed pieces like tablecloths or ornaments. I would love one day to start making bobbin lace myself but life interferes with my hobbies too much as it is, now. Thanks,Wendy _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 03:48:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i028mFA2031694 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 03:48:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i028ld4S029940; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 01:47:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i028ooqq026957; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 01:50:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i028omqq026909 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 01:50:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD737060092; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 02:36:03 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD6BE8026C; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 02:35:55 -0600 Message-ID: <018601c3d10d$091a3b80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <200312301505.hBUF5Yqs016407@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 03:47:20 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 886 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sandy, I am sorry for answering late. I had some minor surgery.... now it is giving me back problems again. Oh well, all this time in bed has given me some time to crochet. We do not have a Hobby Lobby. Can you suggest somewhere else. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 05:18:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i02AI4A2032322 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 05:18:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02AHT4S003419; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 03:17:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02AKiqq053399; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 03:20:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02AKgqq053383 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 03:20:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.14]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02AHHON022118 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 04:17:24 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040102020945.05842470@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 02:10:40 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bob Trunk and Green Duck Designs... was Cussin' Janet Arnold again... In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031231212336.01dbd718@64.87.54.245> References: <3FF30609.5870.1E21253F@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20031231123413.052f4ed0@mail.frys.com> <52659.198.134.51.14.1072807021.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I thought Green Duck had an online store, but I don't see that anymore. >Anyone know what happened to them, I saw them, as visitors, at Dickens' Fair this year, but didn't ask about Green Duck. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 09:39:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i02EdqA2000554 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:39:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02Ed64S015506; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 07:39:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02EgLqq028533; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 07:42:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02EgKqq028470 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 07:42:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 08:38:55 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 08:38:45 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: So, What'd ya get? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Christmas was, in general, a little lean this year but, for me, a most wonderful early gift was being chosen for the Grand Prize at the Dicken's Faire Costume Competition this year!!! Theresa Eacker ***************************************** Congratulations Theresa! Your dress looks wonderful :). And thanks for posting the webpage with the photos, looks like you had some tough competition. KC had a Dicken's faire for about 3 years several years ago. The majority of the costumes were made by our local University rep theater but I don't think we ever hit this level. I wish the faire would have continued, I think we would have improved. Regarding Bob Trump; I don't know if he teaches anymore but if he does, take his class! When he was active in the SCA he used to teach at our university and one of the classes was on the errors in JA. He was dressed appropriately for the class and I think we learned just as much from getting him to shed, layer by layer, the ensemble he was wearing. He was authentic right down to his 16th century boxers :). Jose (http://www.deserttorch.com/) has worked with him and is another good one for picking his brains, especially on men's costume. And while it was not really a Christmas present, since it was the season; I finally got a Bernina! Our local store had a not-to-be-passed-up end-of-year sale and I finally gave into temptation. My 30 year-old White will now be retired to back-up status. I am looking forward to playing with my new toy over the weekend :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 10:08:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i02F8QA2000637 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 10:08:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02F7i4S017536; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 08:07:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02FB1qq038929; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 08:11:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02FB0qq038922 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 08:11:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-45-054.jps.net ([209.165.45.54] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AcQto-00065a-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 07:07:40 -0800 Message-ID: <002401c3d143$47694080$362da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FF38346.17ECBEB2@charter.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ft. Worth area costumer Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 07:15:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hope you're not feeling ignored, but I don't know any Ft. Worth area costumers either. Good luck, Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Robertson" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 6:17 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ft. Worth area costumer > Anyone know of a good period clothier in the Dallas/Fort Worth area? > I'm in Hurst and I need someone that can pull off mid 1500's Scottish > highland nobility correctly. I have to clothe myself, the wife, an 11 > year old son, a 3 1/2 year old daughter, and eventually a mother in > law. :o) > Cheers, > Joe > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 11:10:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i02GAbA2000811 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 11:10:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02G9m4S022643; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:09:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02GD6qq064111; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:13:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02GD4qq064084 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:13:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (syr-24-58-121-78.twcny.rr.com [24.58.121.78]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i02G9g07004407 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 11:09:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040102110512.00ba0ab8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 11:09:44 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart In-Reply-To: <002001c3cfe8$2dbb5580$6501a8c0@SG01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Anyone seen portraits with sleeves like these?... yes & resourcces X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi there... Yes... I have seen these sleeves before... but not in a portrait. I've seen them in maps of the times as figures about the borders denoting what was worn by each level of society in that area. OK some maps to look at ... Barcelona 1567 Edinburgh 1581 Hamburg 1588 Cologne 1571 All these maps are out of the 16th century town plans from Braun & Hogenberg Have fun. Bridgette >Sorry for the cross posts.. > > > >http://www.forum-hes.nl/forum/main_stocklist.phtml/view/5959?view=yes > > > >I am looking for portraits with sleeves similar to the one at the above >link. This is supposedly a Belgian woman. I am referring to the short >sleeves on the loose gown of the woman second to the left. Mari Stewart, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 11:11:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i02GB5A2000815 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 11:11:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02GAQ4S022704; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:10:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02GDkqq064416; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:13:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02GDiqq064388 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:13:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AcRsW-0006y6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 08:10:24 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] bobbin lace-Attention Bjarne Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:10:26 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3d14a$f12e14e0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20040102054435.8AD7F394F@mprdmxin.myway.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i02GDiqq064388 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would try contacting a fellow list member named Bjarne... drewscph@post12.tele.dk he makes it himself, and may know better where to buy a commercial substitute. I'd be interested in his recommendations for something that looks kinda' like it but isn't as expensive as hand made.... Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Wendy Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 10:45 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] bobbin lace Greetings, Anyone have a source for bobbin lace? The lace trim that I could use for edging. I've been searching around and can only find completed pieces like tablecloths or ornaments. I would love one day to start making bobbin lace myself but life interferes with my hobbies too much as it is, now. Thanks,Wendy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 11:25:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i02GPhA2000847 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 11:25:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02GP74S023948; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:25:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02GSQqq071351; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:28:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scc075.its.state.nc.us (scc075.its.state.nc.us [207.4.22.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02GSNqq071278 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:28:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Ellen.Dappert@ncmail.net) Received: from scc075.its.state.nc.us (127.0.0.1) by scc075.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 3F7DB579003A7F94 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 11:24:57 -0500 Received: from ncmail.net (207.4.90.6) by scc075.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 3F7DB576003DEFBA for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 11:24:56 -0500 Message-ID: <3FF59B68.46DDCF7E@ncmail.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 11:25:12 -0500 From: Ellen Dappert Organization: NC-DJJDP / District 26 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200312251654.hBPGs8qr027384@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Christmas and circuit breakers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A late What "Ja Get" from a lurker I'm getting my sewing machine fixed for Christmas. I think/I'm afraid I will need a new motherboard. As always, it's a long story, and not a pretty one. we have aluminum wiring in our house, and Seidels seem to throw off alot of electricity. the neighborhood must have had a massive surge during a thunderstorm. A neighbor lost much of his novel he was working on., Our washing machine blew it's motherboard. My machine started only sewing backwards. (Hades) SOOO everyone who leaves their machine plugged in....go right now and buy a surge protector. right now . Don't Wait. Learn from my mistakes. Mia Seidel Dappert in Charlotte, NC _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 13:19:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i02IJkA2001250 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:19:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02IIw4S003609; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 11:18:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02IMEqq036237; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 11:22:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cmsrelay03.mx.net (cmsrelay03.mx.net [165.212.11.112]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i02IMCqq036193 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 11:22:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from calkum@usa.net) Received: from cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (165.212.11.138) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 18:18:45 -0000 Received: from uwdvg013.cms.usa.net [165.212.8.13] by cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/) via mtad (C8.MAIN.3.11E) with ESMTP id 062iaBssS0246M38; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 18:18:44 GMT X-USANET-Auth: 165.212.8.13 AUTO calkum@usa.net uwdvg013.cms.usa.net Received: from 67.234.2.148 [67.234.2.148] by uwdvg013.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer CM.0402.7.03); Fri, 02 Jan 2004 18:18:43 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 12:18:43 -0600 From: Leslie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [Re: [h-cost] Ft. Worth area costumer] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.0402.7.03) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <154iaBssr4544S13.1073067523@uwdvg013.cms.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i02IMCqq036193 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joe, I don't know if this will help you, but you may try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScarboroughFaire2/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scarboroughfaireforever/ These are lists that are fans of Scarborough Faire and I know from being a lurker there are some that are part of the Scottish Regiment. They may be able to point you a direction. Back to lurking, Leslie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Robertson" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 6:17 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Ft. Worth area costumer > > > > Anyone know of a good period clothier in the Dallas/Fort Worth area? > > I'm in Hurst and I need someone that can pull off mid 1500's Scottish > > highland nobility correctly. I have to clothe myself, the wife, an 11 > > year old son, a 3 1/2 year old daughter, and eventually a mother in > > law. :o) > > Cheers, > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 15:33:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i02KXpA2001736 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:33:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02KX24S016008; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02KaKqq007121; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:36:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav25.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02KaHqq007039 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:36:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:32:49 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav25.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:32:49 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20031225160045.54938.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What Did 'ya Get? Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:32:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jan 2004 20:32:49.0827 (UTC) FILETIME=[96CF9F30:01C3D16F] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > WheeeeeeKKK!!! (Shrieks of glee) I got a new Husquerna Platinum 770 sewing machine from my husband--bless his heart!!!!! It's great--but so computerized I'm going to need classes just to figure out how to use it!! When you do learn how to use it, you'll love it. I have a Lily 555 and it's wonderful. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 15:43:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i02KhIA2001778 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:43:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02Kgf4S016710; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:42:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02Kk3qq011980; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:46:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gold.wightman.on.ca (gold.wightman.ca [216.249.0.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02Kk1qq011955 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:46:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gold.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D63C94771C for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:42:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by gold.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id 52FF74771A for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:42:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002a01c3d170$edc10c60$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200401021901.i02J1mqr059222@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:40:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Anyone tried a beaver bucket? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > However, I will disagree heartily with the idea that iron > bands (whether d shaped or otherwise) are in any way representative of > withy. There are plenty of archaeological finds that show cooperage with > withies prior to the 17th Cent., (Mary Rose, Venetian/Yugoslavian, > Dutch, German, etc.) and none that I know of off the top of my head > besides Viking age (Oseborg) that have either iron bands or forged iron > rods (besides the many well-painted representations from a number of > well-known painters of the Renaissance that show what I had always > understood to be withy banding). There is actually equally substantial archeological and pictorial evidence of metal hooping on the Mary Rose, Diderot, Pyne, Fortress Louisbourg and elsewhere. So I suppose we could debate back and forth endlessly. :-) I'm not saying it's wrong to use withe, just that it's also not wrong to use iron. There is also to consider that when we, as re-enactors, are considering purchasing equipment with very hard-earned cash, it is important to understand withe hooping is unstable. In period, any period, likelihood was there was a cooper in your village or nearby who could repair your vessel. Now, well, there are village coopers, but our 'village' has become somewhat global and the attendant expense of shipping and waiting for repair can be onerous to some. If choosing wood hooping it is our experience lathe is far more stable than withe, and of course metal almost indestructable. So one has to ask one-self: just how much fuss do I wish to undertake to care for this investment in cooperage? If you're the kind of re-enactor who hauls out stuff for events only and neglects it otherwise, withe hooping is not for you no matter how accurate the portrayal. Lathe might even be questionable. It is important for people to realize these are wooden vessels, which require care. Plastic and indestructible (or nearly) and easily replaceable they're not. Having said that, we still have and use Gary's second bucket produced 10 years ago. It's still watertight. Much abused, because he's the cooper and knows how to fix it, but it's still in use. It's metal hooped, BTW. :-) L'anse aux Meadows still has lathe hooped cooperage (which they utterly abuse much to our horror!) which was produced nine years ago. As far as withe cooperage, we've had some hoops last up to seven years. Others have burst within two weeks. And it's not as though quality of the withes is in question, because Gary is the most picky, exacting man I've ever known, a true frustration to work with sometimes if one is less than a perfectionist. ;-) > Please don't take this as an affront in any way, I just wanted to > correct any errors in understanding I might have created. Oh heavens, no offense taken. Love discussion and discovery. One is never an expert. And one never learns it all. I would be thrilled, BTW, if you could lead me to anywhere we could lay our hands on images of extant cooperage from Plimouth. That would be great. We have original specs through Parks Canada from Fortress Louisbourg (18th century) which is great, and certainly from later from Fort Delaware, as elsewhere. On a > historical costuming note, though, I am always amazed how modern > perceptions of methods of manufacture of all aspects of clothing > culture, from felt for hats to leather for shoes, weaving to lacemaking, > affect how we all see and value our past. Absolutely! One of my major insights occurred several years ago when I began to do large scale historical embroidery using the same tools and technologies as had been done back to the late 13th century (and likely earlier, although I don't have evidence yet). After having completed several pieces (garments and otherwise) I understood in an intimate manner why it is professional embroiderers worked the way they did, and am still quite amazed at the skill and quality one is able to achieve by following in their footsteps. Very humbling. Let alone very invigorating. But then I'm one of few who get totally excited by plain cloth begging for embroidery. Project going to take two years? No problem. :-) > He > admitted that it was based mostly on the available evidence (in this > case archaeological, mostly, as accurate pictorial representations of > clothing and such were rare to nonexistant). Just so. The earlier in time we attempt to research the more difficult and faint the path. But if we stick to it it is simply stunning the insights we can gain not only of technology, but of culture, social mores, economic status, etc. And if we take that research farther and dip into many different time periods, I find I come away with a rather remarkable overview that allows me to see the evolution and very logical reasons behind technologies. Not just in textiles, but in so many other facets. I suppose one is either a history research junkie or one isn't. :-) Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 15:50:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBFLRXA3001802 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:50:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02Knh4S017305; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02Kr4qq015746; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:53:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav54.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i02Kr3qq015697 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:53:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:49:35 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav54.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:49:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200312271353.IAA04903@www21.ureach.com> <013e01c3ccda$3fe03160$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:49:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jan 2004 20:49:35.0444 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE349940:01C3D171] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > My daughter said every one of her friends received Pirates too! I guess it > was the #1 selling video last week. Well, I got the old King and I, Shrek and LOTR : TT extended version, which is much, much better than the short version. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 20:10:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i031ACA2002633 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 20:10:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0319a4S014955; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 18:09:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i031Csqq049425; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 18:12:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12907.mail.yahoo.com (web12907.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i031Cqqq049390 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 18:12:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040103010927.20920.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.48.41.31] by web12907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:09:27 EST Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 20:09:27 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Question on fur usage (12-14th cen, Tudor, X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather wrote: >The skin breeches I see on that page are the polar-bear skin ones >given in Hald -- am I missing another mention somewhere? As far as I know. You know more about them than I do. In fact, they don't, in my recollection, mention anywhere the original material they were made from. Someone had told me that they weren't textile. >I'm a bit surprised to see the polar bear skin ones suggested as a >model for Viking clothing. They include a myriad of undergarments from various periods, that is how I came across them. I am also working on the Bocksten Bog Man right now, and am counfounded on undergarment issues. I was planning on using whatever came close and was easily constructed for a variety of reasons, but the bug was put in my ear to do a conjectural set of underwear for the suit, and the more I think about it, the more I am liking the idea. I have the time right now to research and develop the pattern, so why not? Since this waaayy out of my period, and I am not really knowledgeable on menswear overall, any points in the right direction are well appreciated from anyone. >Hald includes them as comparative material in her >discussion about the possible evolution of the trouser cut seen in >several Iron Age garments, but the skin garment itself is of native >Greenlander, not Viking, origin. I've seen this cross back and forth quite a bit in my research thus far. >If you follow Hald's reasoning, she's suggesting that a handful of >garments from the first couple of centuries of the common era may >have inherited their particular cut from even earlier styles made >from skins, where the cut was retained when the reason for it had >been lost. If I am to understand your meaning, that the cut of trousers evolved slower than most based on the use of this type of material, until it was replaced with textile? >wish that the Viking-Experience page mentioned a few >of these issues In a perfect world, every website would be fully annotated and bibliographies would be supplied, and the writers of said websites would answer their emails within a reasonable period of time! Such a frustration for those of us who can't get out of the house often and have a very limited library when we do. Kathy --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 2 21:56:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i032uOA2002845 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 21:56:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i032tZ4S020718; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 19:55:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i032wxqq090889; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 19:58:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i032wvqq090882 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 19:58:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06940299pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.19.18]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A363615DF2 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 18:55:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Christmas and circuit breakers Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 22:02:38 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3FF59B68.46DDCF7E@ncmail.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OUCH! Why I keep a few old machines around- nothing can kill a Singer model 66 or 15, so they are always available, even if the newer one needs a shop visit. -Megan Ellen Dappert had written: I'm getting my sewing machine fixed for Christmas. I think/I'm afraid I will need a new motherboard. SOOO everyone who leaves their machine plugged in....go right now and buy a surge protector. right now . Don't Wait. Learn from my mistakes. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 00:19:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i035JsA2003218 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 00:19:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i035JD4S028686; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 22:19:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i035MZqq047030; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 22:22:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf27.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf27.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i035MYqq046982 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 22:22:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Received: from charter.net (c66.169.191.177.ts46v-16.ftwrth.tx.charter.com [66.169.191.177]) by mxsf27.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i035GCLU084602 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 00:16:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Message-ID: <3FF6501B.671D6DCE@charter.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 23:16:11 -0600 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [Re: [h-cost] Ft. Worth area costumer] References: <154iaBssr4544S13.1073067523@uwdvg013.cms.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks much! Joe --- Joe Robertson, Psy.D. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 12:27:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i03HRWA2030904 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 12:27:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03HQr4S004346; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:26:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03HUIqq011207; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:30:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta13.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta13.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03HUGqq011188 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:30:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) by mta13.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQX003BGCFHML@mta13.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 12:26:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 12:26:40 -0500 From: "J.A.Urbik" To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3FF6FB50.5030801@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Mongolian Dells X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello All Well, I am off to a start on a new and somewhat different project. I have completed my first outfit following Drea Leed's Flemish outfit nicely. No pictures, and i have to redo something before i can relace the outer gown, b ut a friend of mine said that "with the apron and the hat thing, the outfit looks just like the paintings" , which i can only take as a complement to Drea's excellent instructions! Anyway, while i plan on making several more over and under gowns, and selves and partlets, and aprons, and etc. (i want several complete sets before next pennsic that i go to) I promised husband/sister-in-law/sister in law's kids that the next project would be a couple of dells. They below to a household that tries to to a bunch of mongolian stuff. I know *NOTHING* about mongolian stuff. Not quite sure what time period, but i would assume around Gengihs Khan would be the time period i am looking for. I do know that silk would be the best fabric to use, but what kinds (raw, brocade, noil, charmuse, etc)? What should the decorations look like, what would be good colors, etc? What would be some good web pages or books to interlibrary loan? I have bought and received the folkwear pattern for " #114 Chinese Jacket" -- http://www.folkwear.com/asian.html (have lost it in my house but am SURE that i will find it), and thought that I would use the short jacket with the asymmetrical opening. I do have a couple of constraints. I would like to NOT do it in the heavily patterned silk brocade. my husband does not like the patterns and the fabric is not appropriate for small kids i don't think. Any help or ideas would be much appreciated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 14:59:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i03JxtA2031435 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 14:59:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03Jx04S014056; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 12:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03K2Sqq073218; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:02:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03K2Qqq073183 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:02:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.48.2661231e (3996) for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 14:58:39 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <48.2661231e.2d2878ef@aol.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 14:58:39 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Christmas and circuit breakers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/2/2004 9:56:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, megan@benchite.com writes: go right now and buy a surge protector. right now . Thanks for the warning. I've had my machine plugged in to a serge protector, simply for the convenience of it as an extension cord, and had not thought about the machine's vulnerability. I'll definitely keep it plugged in there, then. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 15:03:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i03K3EA2031444 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:03:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03K2e4S014212; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:02:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03K6Fqq074716; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:06:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03K6Dqr074696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:06:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i03K3AKY002820 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:03:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i03K3AL0002818 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:03:10 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mongolian Dells Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:03:09 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FF6FB50.5030801@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: <3FF6FB50.5030801@optonline.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401031503.09672.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 03 January 2004 12:26 pm, J.A.Urbik wrote: > I promised > husband/sister-in-law/sister in law's kids that the next project would > be a couple of dells. They below to a household that tries to to a > bunch of mongolian stuff. I know *NOTHING* about mongolian stuff. Not > quite sure what time period, but i would assume around Gengihs Khan > would be the time period i am looking for. [snip] > Any help or ideas would be much appreciated. For information on "Mongolian folk costume" (seems to be mostly late 19th early 20th c), see: http://www.skiouros.net/varia/ncmpr/ (pictures are separate links at the bottom of the page, they each open into a new window) This page refers to a del by name, though it's "patterns" are sketchy at best: http://hometown.aol.com/noramunro/MongolDress/ This page is by an SCA member into the Mongolians. I believe it replicates the information in the issue of Compleat Anachronist on Mongol medieval dress and may be more helpful than the above: http://members.tripod.com/~whitebard/bibli54.htm I believe she is calling "caftan" what other sources would call a "del" or "dell". Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 15:03:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i03K3HA2031447 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:03:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03K2j4S014232; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:02:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03K6Kqq074757; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:06:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03K6Gqq074676 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:06:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.d5.2732b07 (3996) for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:02:35 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:02:35 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mongolian Dells To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/3/2004 12:29:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, jaurbik@optonline.net writes: What would be some good web pages or books to interlibrary loan? Try: Mongolia: The Legacy of Chinggis Khan, by Patricia Berger and Terese Tse Bartholomew. 1995: Asian Art Museum of San Francisco. This was a catalogue for the exhibit that also was mounted at the National Geographic Society in Washington. CSA members got to tour the exhibit with the ambassador from Mongolia and his family. It was great! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 15:09:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i03K9wA2031463 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:09:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03K9C4S014617; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:09:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03KCiqq077373; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:12:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03KCfqr077353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:12:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i03K9cKY002887 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:09:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i03K9c3M002885 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:09:38 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Christmas and circuit breakers Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:09:38 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <48.2661231e.2d2878ef@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <48.2661231e.2d2878ef@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401031509.38525.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 03 January 2004 02:58 pm, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/2/2004 9:56:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, > megan@benchite.com writes: > go right now and buy a surge protector. right now . > Thanks for the warning. I've had my machine plugged in to a serge > protector, simply for the convenience of it as an extension cord, and had > not thought about the machine's vulnerability. I'll definitely keep it > plugged in there, then. > > Yes. My husband is a programmer so we've had surge protectors for a long time. It's especially important around here, because power usage gets so high in the summer (and thunderstorms so common) that surges and fluctuations in power are routine. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 16:02:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i03L2cA2031663 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 16:02:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03L1o4S017767; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 14:01:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03L55qq097454; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 14:05:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03L52qq097434 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 14:05:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.162] (pm5-162.eos.net [205.133.149.162]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i03L1Oc2014753 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 16:01:25 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 16:01:58 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401031900.i03J0Xqr047257@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I made that jacket when I was in high school, asymmetrical opening and all -- still have it, as a matter of fact. I gave it to my daughter to use as play clothes but she never did, so I got it back. I made it from plain, dark blue cotton broadcloth with sleeve turnbacks made of cotton printed to look like a cloudy sky, and I embroidered a round medallion to put on the front (per the instructions) and made fabric frogs. I can't remember anything except that I didn't have any trouble following the directions, and it worked perfectly and looked good. That's why I still have it, though I never wore it anywhere -- it's too pretty to give away. I was not a great sewer by any means. I just thought that might encourage you! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 17:53:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i03MqxA2032158 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:53:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03MqJ4S023838; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:52:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03Mtnqq038942; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:55:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i03Mtlqq038927 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:55:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQX00LJHRIVOY@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 14:52:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 14:49:17 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mongolian Dells In-reply-to: <3FF6FB50.5030801@optonline.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040103143042.02318898@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:26 PM 1/3/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I do know that silk would be the best fabric to use, but what kinds (raw, >brocade, noil, charmuse, etc)? Hiya! I don't know much about silk, but I would suggest a great book on the subject, _All About Silk, A Fabric Dictionary & Swatchbook_ by Julie Parker. The best price I found it for, besides at eBay once, is at Denver Fabrics for $24.50 http://www.denverfabrics.com/pages/static/Silk/silk-fabrics-books.htm Having just got the book myself for Xmas, it is wonderful and I now have a better idea of what kind of silks would work best for a Ren Faire nobles outfit, either crepe, crepon or a twill/gaberdine, because they would wear better. Satin is the best and probably historically accurate I am sure, but it doesn't wear very well, and you know how rough faire or SCA time can be on historical garments. The book not only describes the different silks, but tells you what kind of garments would work best for each type of silk fabric, and how well the fabric wears, and where the fabric may wear out on a garment, whether to dry clean or hand wash, and a bunch of definitions and terms. Not to mention the swatches that allow you to touch each type of silk so you know what you are reading about. Very worth getting, especially if like me you don't have much of a silk selection at nearby stores, so you have to buy online. Now I know what I am looking for and what the definitions usually mean. Anyway, I was happy with the book, and I think it is worth getting for anyone who is wanting to get into silk fabrics and doesn't know much about silk. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 19:49:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i040n6A2032429 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:49:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i040mT4S000198; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:48:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i040q2qq077990; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:52:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta13.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta13.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i040pxqq077978 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:52:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) by mta13.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQX0089VWVLN9@mta13.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 19:47:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 19:48:20 -0500 From: "J.A.Urbik" In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20040103143042.02318898@64.87.54.245> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3FF762D4.1030404@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040103143042.02318898@64.87.54.245> Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: _All about silk_ (was mongolian dells) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I agree with you about the book All About Silk_, in fact i have a much paged though and added to (when i get samples in the mail from fabric mart or other stores, i try to add to my _all about wool_ or _all about silk_). The one problem that I have with the book (as a help to historic costuming) is that it does not tell much about *when* weaves and such we most common. but then, that is not the purpose of the book. Like, would a "suit weight wool" or a crepe be appropriate for a flemish market women's outfit? I know wool is the correct fiber (from Drea) but how about worsted wool. However, at least know i know what a worsted wool is! By the way, i do heartily recommend the _All about wool_ book by the same author. I love them! Jordana Kimiko Small wrote: _All About Silk, A Fabric Dictionary & Swatchbook_ by Julie > Parker. The best price I found it for, besides at eBay once, is at > Denver Fabrics for $24.50 > http://www.denverfabrics.com/pages/static/Silk/silk-fabrics-books.htm > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 19:53:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i040rXA2032438 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:53:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i040qt4S000400; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:52:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i040uWqq079498; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:56:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i040uVqq079482 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:56:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQX000ULX44IZ@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 19:52:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 19:52:51 -0500 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) References: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the encouragement. I was sure that it would come out better if i used a pattern, even though every says you really don't need one. But i really like patters! it seems that everything i try to do without a least a basic pattern to start on does not come out right. i think it has to do with trying to fit on oneself. As soon as i find it, i will be overjoyed to prove you right :) At the moment, i think it is in the same place as socks go in the dryer. i cleaned house for *8* hours yesterday, with no good effect (well, except that my house is clean....) trying to find the darn thing. ok, a good 4 hours of was spent striating my sewing area... Jordana Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > I made that jacket when I was in high school, asymmetrical opening and all ... That's why I still have it, though I never > wore it anywhere -- it's too pretty to give away. I was not a great sewer by > any means. I just thought that might encourage you! > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 19:59:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i040x7A2032452 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:59:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i040wc4S000671; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:58:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0412Fqq081424; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:02:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0412Cqr081397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:02:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i040u7Pp002648 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:56:07 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 19:56:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FF7657D.40309@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 19:59:41 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: _All about silk_ (was mongolian dells) References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040103143042.02318898@64.87.54.245> <3FF762D4.1030404@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: <3FF762D4.1030404@optonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO J.A.Urbik wrote: > By the way, i do heartily recommend the _All about wool_ book by the > same author. I love them! I'll add my voice here as well. Great stuff. Especially good for folks who learn by seeing examples. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent The FBI urged police officers to watch during searches, traffic stops and other investigations for anyone carrying almanacs, especially if the books are annotated in suspicious ways. A person with an almanac "may point to possible terrorist planning." -- Associated Press 12/29/03 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 20:14:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i041EjA2032495 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:14:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i041EC4S001539; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:14:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i041Hmqq087067; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:17:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i041Hlqq087047 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:17:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12393 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:41:58 -0600 Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:41:58 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: _All about silk_ (was mongolian dells) In-Reply-To: <3FF762D4.1030404@optonline.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, J.A.Urbik wrote: > The one problem that I have with the book (as a help to historic > costuming) is that it does not tell much about *when* weaves and such > we most common. but then, that is not the purpose of the book. > Like, would a "suit weight wool" or a crepe be appropriate for a > flemish market women's outfit? I know wool is the correct fiber (from > Drea) but how about worsted wool. However, at least know i know what > a worsted wool is! Worsted wool is medieval and as far as I know was in continuous use since then. I can't swear to it, as I don't specialize in the more recent centuries, but I'd be mighty surprised if that was not the case. I use worsteds often for medieval clothing; they are comfortable and attractive and durable. Crepe is another matter. I've heard people explain that you can do crepe weaves using medieval looms, but from what I have gathered from the discussions on this list and elsewhere, that was not the same sort of weave as is done in today's "crepe" fabrics. And there's some question as to whether the weaves *would* have been done, regardless of whether they *could* have been done -- and if so, for what uses. The word crepe goes way back, and I believe appears in 16th c. documents, but I don't think it has the same meaning in terms of fabric. I would be happy for some definitive word on crepe, but till I hear anything more than speculation, I'm avoiding it myself. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 20:29:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i041ToA2032544 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:29:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i041TF4S002304; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:29:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i041Wpqq092289; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:32:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta16.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta16.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i041Wnqq092270 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:32:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) by mta16.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQX00JDVYS943@mta16.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:28:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:29:07 -0500 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: _All about silk_ (was mongolian dells) In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3FF76C63.6060906@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) References: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, on the subject of crepe, i ordered a bunch of a gray wool crepe by mistake (it is a great fabric, and was on sale for like $5 a yard, but i thought it was lavender was it was going to go with several green pants i was making for my niece for xmas (along with six matching american girl outfits for each style-i kinda go overboard on my niece's presents). Anyway, i am not sure how to use it, i have about 5 yards. Any ideas? I am guessing from below (Robin) (and i kinda figured out) that neither of my current projects would accommodate it, and the gray would not go with anything for my niece so i am at a lost for how to use it. and since i am probably going to be out of a job soon, ot at least making 10 to 20 thousand less, i will need to be playing with the fabric i have, and not buying more.... sob --but hopefully i will stop coming home and crying. the fabric buying possiblilityies of this job do not overweight the misery of it. Robin Netherton wrote: > Crepe is another matter. I've heard people explain that you can do crepe > weaves using medieval looms, but from what I have gathered from the > discussions on this list and elsewhere, that was not the same sort of > weave as is done in today's "crepe" fabrics. And there's some question as > to whether the weaves *would* have been done, regardless of whether they > *could* have been done -- and if so, for what uses. The word crepe goes > way back, and I believe appears in 16th c. documents, but I don't think it > has the same meaning in terms of fabric. I would be happy for some > definitive word on crepe, but till I hear anything more than speculation, > I'm avoiding it myself. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 21:25:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i042PdA2032758 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:25:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i042Ox4S005371; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:24:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i042SZqq012618; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:28:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i042SYqq012607 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:28:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.188] (pm5-188.eos.net [205.133.149.188]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i042OIc2018921 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:24:18 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 21:24:49 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312311901.hBVJ1Bqr044069@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: movies & canada X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OT, but I thought some international folks might know the answer to this. A couple of months ago I bought, for $6 American, a DVD of the movie "Strictly Ballroom" (OCC: lots of over-the-top costumes) from a drugstore chain I won't name (starts with "Wal"). Obviously I was dubious about the quality, esp. since the cover art looked like something copied on a color copier. The picture quality was fine, but it had no extras and was broken up into only four scenes. I thought it might just be a low-cost movie, but at the library last week I came upon a DVD of the same movie, with director's audio commentary, a little film on Australian ballroom dancing, etc. It was from Miramax and mine, I now see, is from Lions Gate Home Entertainment in Canada, and has a Canadian rating of 14A. I checked the Lions Gate web site, and it's a legitimate company, but they have no listing for this film. So my question is, what do I have? Is this a pirated film? Is it a remaindered film from a batch of low-cost but legitimate pressings? Do movies generally come out in more than one format -- one with extras and cheaper ones without? Or do films have different distributors in different countries, each of which can put out videos and DVDs? And what is a 14A rating? Not exactly costume content but: the commentary is very interesting, especially the parts about how they made the movie with such a small budget. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 22:13:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i043D8A2000449 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 22:13:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i043B65S008282; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:12:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i042xnqq023485; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:59:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i042xlqq023469 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:59:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.188] (pm5-188.eos.net [205.133.149.188]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i042u5c2026020 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:56:06 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 21:56:37 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312311901.hBVJ1Bqr044069@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: rag curls X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A link on the site Helen posted was a Celtic dancing site that sold something called "Soft Spikes," which claimed to make those tight ringlets all the Irish dancers have to wear now. I don't know if it would work or not, but I may order some! For Christmas I put my 9-year-old daughter's hair up in soft curlers we bought at the $1 store. The back of her hair we did in curlers we bought a while ago, sort of like rags with a wire in them. The front we did in new curlers which were long rods, flexible wire covered in foam and fabric, about 5 and 7 inches long and the diameter of a pencil. The directions said that the long ones were for tubular curls and the short ones for more bouncy curls. You kept the long ones on straight, bending just the ends to secure the hair, so it looked like she had soda straws attached to her head. You bent the short ones in half, into a U shape, and wound the hair from one side to the other, then twisted the ends. Anyway, her stick-straight hair looked gorgeous all day, even though she is a tomboy and was crawling around the ground, running, changing clothes, etc. We didn't use any gel or hairspray. I need to get back to the $1 store and buy a couple more packages (it only came with 10). The hair that she had on the straight, soda straw "curlers" hung in narrow sausage curls the whole day. We used to use just rags (after people discussed it on this list -- thanks!) but the commercial curlers were easier for me to store because my daughter kept using the rags for crafts. A little curl in rag curlers looks adorable, thought -- I was always tempted to do her hair up in the rags for parties! But she wanted the curls. The Soft Spikes look interesting, and they are $8 for 30. They look easy to use and easy to secure - the main problem we've had is things coming out at night (she's active even when she sleeps!). Gail Finke (whose hair is only about 3 inches long) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 22:21:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i043L7A2000479 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 22:21:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i043KY4S008903; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:20:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i043OCqq031720; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:24:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i043OAqq031700 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:24:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.14]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i043JklI014644 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:19:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040103191447.00d9c850@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 19:17:47 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket In-Reply-To: <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >even though every says you really don't need one. For many ethnic garments you don't really need a pattern to make them fit like they originally do, just a set of measurements. Ethnic garments don't fit like Western European ones do, such fit as they have being provided largely by things like belts and overlap. Anymore I cut ethnic-shaped garments without patterns. I can do this because I have been doing it for decades, so it's easy for me. So go for that pattern if you can get it. It will make things a lot easier for you. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 22:21:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i043LDA2000482 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 22:21:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i043Ke4S008924; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:20:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i043OIqq031771; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:24:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i043OAqq031708 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:24:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.14]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i043JklK014644 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:19:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040103191841.059e29d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 19:19:36 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: movies & canada In-Reply-To: References: <200312311901.hBVJ1Bqr044069@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Not exactly costume content but: the commentary is very interesting, >especially the parts about how they made the movie with such a small budget. The costumes in that film, while modern, are really fantastic, as in, fantasy-like. I wish I had the body for some of them. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 22:36:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i043aoA2000539 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 22:36:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i043aG4S009731; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:36:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i043dsqq037004; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:39:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i043dpqq036991 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:39:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i043aB0E031240 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 22:36:11 -0500 Message-ID: <003301c3d273$e5916950$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: movies & canada Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 22:36:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If I had to guess, 14A probably is like our PG 13. For Adults and children over 14, maybe. Also, it looks like you got the movie released from the distributor licensed for Canada rather than from the US one. It doesn't seem like it is pirated, they probably just didn't get the rights to all of the "goodies". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 9:24 PM Subject: [h-cost] OT: movies & canada > > > OT, but I thought some international folks might know the answer to this. > > A couple of months ago I bought, for $6 American, a DVD of the movie > "Strictly Ballroom" (OCC: lots of over-the-top costumes) from a drugstore > chain I won't name (starts with "Wal"). Obviously I was dubious about the > quality, esp. since the cover art looked like something copied on a color > copier. The picture quality was fine, but it had no extras and was broken up > into only four scenes. > > I thought it might just be a low-cost movie, but at the library last week I > came upon a DVD of the same movie, with director's audio commentary, a > little film on Australian ballroom dancing, etc. It was from Miramax and > mine, I now see, is from Lions Gate Home Entertainment in Canada, and has a > Canadian rating of 14A. I checked the Lions Gate web site, and it's a > legitimate company, but they have no listing for this film. > > So my question is, what do I have? Is this a pirated film? Is it a > remaindered film from a batch of low-cost but legitimate pressings? Do > movies generally come out in more than one format -- one with extras and > cheaper ones without? Or do films have different distributors in different > countries, each of which can put out videos and DVDs? > > And what is a 14A rating? > > Not exactly costume content but: the commentary is very interesting, > especially the parts about how they made the movie with such a small budget. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 3 23:41:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i044fAA2000755 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 23:41:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i044eI4S012769; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:40:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i044hpqq059337; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:43:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail2.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.76]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i044hoqq059331 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:43:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail2.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i045dge6014552 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 00:39:43 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.34.246]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 22:40:08 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 23:40:02 -0500 Message-ID: <003701c3d27c$d1b9ac90$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Mongolia: Legacy of Genghis Khan exhibit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mongolia: The Legacy of Chinggis Khan, by Patricia Berger and Terese Tse Bartholomew. 1995: Asian Art Museum of San Francisco. This was a catalogue for the exhibit that also was mounted at the National Geographic Society in Washington. CSA members got to tour the exhibit with the ambassador from Mongolia and his family. It was great! Ann Wass - I too was on the National Geographic CSA tour - it was my first CSA event! - Sorry for the one-liner, but it's a happy memory - the ambassador's wife blew me away with her descriptions of WHY Mongolian clothing is made the way it is. - Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 02:34:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i047YaA2001032 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 02:34:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i047Xr4S020861; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 00:33:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i047bUqq018757; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 00:37:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i047bSqr018744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 00:37:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i047YLKY003839 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 02:34:21 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i047YKIH003837 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 02:34:21 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: _All about silk_ (was mongolian dells) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 02:34:20 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FF76C63.6060906@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: <3FF76C63.6060906@optonline.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401040234.20677.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 03 January 2004 08:29 pm, J.A.Urbik wrote: [snip] > Anyway, i am not sure how to use it, i have about 5 yards. Any ideas? > I am guessing from below (Robin) (and i kinda figured out) that neither > of my current projects would accommodate it, and the gray would not go > with anything for my niece so i am at a lost for how to use it. and > since i am probably going to be out of a job soon, ot at least making 10 > to 20 thousand less, i will need to be playing with the fabric i have, > and not buying more.... sob --but hopefully i will stop coming home and > crying. If it's a light gray, how about dyeing it a more useful color? I've been having great success using plain old Rit on wool flannel. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 03:04:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i04842A2001079 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 03:04:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0483R4S022295; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 01:03:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04875qq029709; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 01:07:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04874qq029703 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 01:07:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQY00HHMH1KPK@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 04 Jan 2004 00:03:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 00:00:33 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: _All about silk_ (was mongolian dells) In-reply-to: <3FF76C63.6060906@optonline.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040103235554.02385798@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:29 PM 1/3/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Ok, on the subject of crepe, i ordered a bunch of a gray wool crepe by >mistake (it is a great fabric, and was on sale for like $5 a yard, but i >thought it was lavender was it was going to go with several green pants i >was making for my niece for xmas (along with six matching american girl >outfits for each style-i kinda go overboard on my niece's presents). > >Anyway, i am not sure how to use it, i have about 5 yards. Any ideas? I >am guessing from below (Robin) (and i kinda figured out) that neither of >my current projects would accommodate it, and the gray would not go with >anything for my niece so i am at a lost for how to use it. and since i am >probably going to be out of a job soon, ot at least making 10 to 20 >thousand less, i will need to be playing with the fabric i have, and not >buying more.... sob --but hopefully i will stop coming home and crying. > >the fabric buying possiblilityies of this job do not overweight the misery >of it. Ok, I thought grey was the best all purpose go with everything neutral color there was, next to black and white. If I had that much gray wool crepe, I might make a business suit, or pants or skirt and vest, or something basic. And if you don't like the idea of modern clothing, again make basic skirts and bodices with it or something. Or sell it to me if you want! I like grey wool crepe and would pay you what you paid for the material, or ebay the material and maybe get more for it. And I am sorry about the job situation. I hope you can find something else in the same field real soon. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 03:23:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i048N7A2001089 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 03:23:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i048MX4S023070; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 01:22:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i048QEqq035851; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 01:26:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i048QDqq035838 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 01:26:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQY00DX7HXGSG@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 04 Jan 2004 00:22:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 00:19:43 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20040103191447.00d9c850@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040104000615.00b0af58@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:17 PM 1/3/2004 -0800, you wrote: >For many ethnic garments you don't really need a pattern to make them fit >like they originally do, just a set of measurements. Ethnic garments >don't fit like Western European ones do, such fit as they have being >provided largely by things like belts and overlap. Anymore I cut >ethnic-shaped garments without patterns. I can do this because I have >been doing it for decades, so it's easy for me. So go for that pattern if >you can get it. It will make things a lot easier for you. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows I very much agree, after having had John Marshall's class on Japanese, Chinese, and African Ethnic clothing styles. Let me see if I can explain the gist of John's doll forms. What he does is have you measure your basic body measurements, including height to shoulder, length of armspan from fingertip to fingertip (or wrist to wrist), bust, waist, and hips. Then on 12 sq. inch paper you mark out your measurements to have this funky paper doll, connecting the points to make a body shape, both front and back. You fold the paper in half at the shoulder height, so you have a front and a back. Then you take scissors and cut out whatever shape you want, provided you don't cut into the doll body, unless you really want to chop it off at the knees for a shorter outfit, or midarm for short sleeves, or wherever. You can also add in pieces as well. You basically play with this until you have a shape you like, and there is your mini pattern. You take the mini pattern and transfer it to graphed pattern paper or interfacing, like the pellon Tru-grid. Then you have your real pattern, and can cut into fabric from there. My fantasy Stormwatch duster is being based on this whole concept, which is at its heart really simple. And it will be made of just rectangles for the most part. I am sure if you could see the little paper doll I have it would make more sense. It really is rather freeing to be able to make such unfitted garments, considering all the fitted bodice and doublet work I have done over the years. Kinda like great kilts in such simplicity. {shrug} I have such a thing for kilts. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 05:27:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i04ARFA2009470 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 05:27:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04APQ4S029288; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 03:25:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04AT6qq075734; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 03:29:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04AT4qq075719 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 03:29:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lee@gw.retro.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id i04ASHd03598 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 02:28:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 02:28:17 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200401041028.i04ASHd03598@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: rag curls Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Those Soft Spikes are the ones made out of higher density foam, right? One thing to remember when doing rag curls is that hair shrinks some as it dries. Don't put your hair on compressible rollers (rag, foam, spikes, vinyl-covered wire rods) when it's *wet*. You want your hair to just be a little damp. And don't roll tightly, or you'll get the same painful lesson I got. The hair shrinks and bites into the foam roller/rod, then you can't get it off without yanking and pulling. Ruins the curls and hurts like the blazes. I bought the more expensive cousin to Soft Spikes, which are essentially foam rods covered in lycra with a snap on the end. http://www.seenontv.com/prod-pages/wrapsnapgo.html Yeah, cheezy "As Seen On TV" product, but I picked them up at the drugstore. The one nice thing is because of the snap, you can interlace the rods and therefore get them to STAY ON for more than five minutes (a real problem for me). It meant I actually got rollers to stay in overnight without having to sleep in a turban (which usually also comes off while I'm sleeping). Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 06:15:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i04BFBA2009552 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 06:15:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04BDH4S001108; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 04:13:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04BGuqq090771; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 04:16:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04BGtqq090757 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 04:16:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-14.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.14]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04BD9Hs017634 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 03:13:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040104031108.05889ec0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 03:12:10 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040104000615.00b0af58@64.87.54.245> References: <4.3.1.2.20040103191447.00d9c850@mail.frys.com> <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Ethnic garments don't fit like Western European ones do, such fit as they >>have being provided largely by things like belts and overlap. And are cut from rectangles and triangles only, for the most part, so they don't waste all that nice fabric they just got through weaving. >I very much agree, after having had John Marshall's class on Japanese, >Chinese, and African Ethnic clothing styles. > >Let me see if I can explain the gist of John's doll forms. What he does is >have you measure your basic body measurements, including height to >shoulder, length of armspan from fingertip to fingertip (or wrist to >wrist), bust, waist, and hips. Then on 12 sq. inch paper you mark out your >measurements to have this funky paper doll, connecting the points to make >a body shape, both front and back. You fold the paper in half at the >shoulder height, so you have a front and a back. > >Then you take scissors and cut out whatever shape you want, provided you >don't cut into the doll body, unless you really want to chop it off at the >knees for a shorter outfit, or midarm for short sleeves, or wherever. You >can also add in pieces as well. You basically play with this until you >have a shape you like, and there is your mini pattern. You take the mini >pattern and transfer it to graphed pattern paper or interfacing, like the >pellon Tru-grid. Then you have your real pattern, and can cut into fabric >from there. > >My fantasy Stormwatch duster is being based on this whole concept, which >is at its heart really simple. And it will be made of just rectangles for >the most part. I am sure if you could see the little paper doll I have it >would make more sense. It really is rather freeing to be able to make such >unfitted garments, considering all the fitted bodice and doublet work I >have done over the years. Kinda like great kilts in such simplicity. >{shrug} I have such a thing for kilts. > >Kimiko > > >Kimiko Small >Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother >"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > >Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild >Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery >http://www.costumegallery.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 08:52:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i04DqpA2014131 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:52:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04DqF4S009401; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 06:52:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04Dtvqq045145; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 06:55:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04Dtuqq045134 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 06:55:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HQY005VZX6YDR@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 04 Jan 2004 08:52:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 08:52:09 -0500 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re:Gray Crepe was [h-cost] Re: _All about silk_ In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20040103235554.02385798@64.87.54.245> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3FF81A89.8040204@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040103235554.02385798@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko, thye probablm with the job is the field. After three years in teaching high school, i have decided enough is enough, and i hate the wohle field. i just don't seem to be able to find any other jobs that i am quilified for, which is odd since my degree is in math. but not much tech heiring is happening. I will think about selling the crepe, i think the major probelm that i have with it is it can't be even hand washed without changing the texture --i think at least jordana Kimiko Small wrote: Or sell it to > me if you want! I like grey wool crepe and would pay you what you paid > for the material, or ebay the material and maybe get more for it. > > And I am sorry about the job situation. I hope you can find something > else in the same field real soon. > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 10:15:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i04FFsA2014247 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 10:15:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04FFH4S013482; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:15:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04FIvqq073748; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:18:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav52.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBU0NYqq027191 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:23:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:20:56 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav52.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 00:20:55 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:19:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Bcc: Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Dec 2003 00:20:56.0148 (UTC) FILETIME=[CAD77940:01C3CE6A] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 08:18:56 -0700 Subject: [h-cost] Ebay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm having a sale. Anyone on the list can get $2 shipping on any ebay purchases they buy from me. http://snipurl.com/3csb Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Also on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/3csb Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 10:16:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i04FGaA2014250 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 10:16:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04FFx4S013525; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04FJjqq074018; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:19:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav24.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBUNQQqq021840 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:26:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:23:34 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav24.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 23:23:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:21:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Bcc: Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Dec 2003 23:23:34.0468 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1DA8840:01C3CF2B] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 08:18:56 -0700 Subject: [h-cost] Ebay Listings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have listed a lot of neat items mostly books and a good sized stack of quilt fabric. Four sets of Folkwear patterns (there are 3 in each set) are also up there. I have a couple of Antonia Fraser books and a copy of And All Was revealed by Doreen Caldwell. I'm listing more every friday as well but I have some that are ending soon. Shipping for books and patterns is $2 off for list members. http://snipurl.com/3csb Bice Now announcing the new Rolled Florentine Cap Kristalori History www.swapking.com/hats Live Journal http://snipurl.com/3jcs _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 12:18:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i04HIZA2014498 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 12:18:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04HHv4S023381; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 10:17:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04HKHqq017953; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 10:20:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40413.mail.yahoo.com (web40413.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i04HJkqq017711 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 10:20:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hanstar88@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040104171554.97573.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.176.127] by web40413.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 04 Jan 2004 09:15:54 PST Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 09:15:54 -0800 (PST) From: Mary To: h-costume@net.indra.com In-Reply-To: <200401040324.i043OOqs031816@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Christmas and circuit breakers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:09:38 -0500 > From: Catherine Olanich Raymond > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Christmas and circuit breakers > > My husband is a programmer so we've had surge protectors for a long > time. > It's especially important around here, because power usage gets so > high in > the summer (and thunderstorms so common) that surges and > fluctuations in > power are routine. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > Delurking for a moment... I found out (the hard way) that surge protectors only last for a couple years. We had our computer plugged into one, but when we experienced a blackout a couple years ago, it blew our hard drive. One of the pc tech people at my job explained to me that the constants spikes & surges of power "wear out" the surge protector after time. When you have PCs, sewing machines, TVs, etc that are $1000+, it's definitely worth it to invest in a $20 surge protector every few years! Back to lurking, Mary ===== "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 18:26:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i04NQMA2015644 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 18:26:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04NPj4S015875; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 16:25:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04NTTqq066977; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 16:29:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i04NSkqq066591 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 16:29:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.80.28a09fc (3988); Sun, 4 Jan 2004 18:24:45 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <80.28a09fc.2d29fabd@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 18:24:45 EST To: h-costume@indra.com, SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New York Fabric Stores X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for the cross-post, but I figured that anyone in the New York area (near NYC) and anyone planning on visiting might like this. I needed lining fabric, and cotton velvet. I wanted linen for lining, but was going to settle for cotton broadcloth simply for my wallet's sake (college student, Elizabethans are expensive and everything else in the costume was linen or silk). However, I went into New York this afternoon, and got what my heart wanted- linen, good quality. For $3 per yard (plus tax), which is the retail, non-negotiated price. And, I talked a guy down to $8 a yard for the velvet. Anyhow. The first place had yards and yards of linen. I'm talking a historical costumer's *dream*. And, for those of you who like sheer embroideries, it's knee-buckling. And certainly eye-opening. There are two fabric stores right next to each other who both carry tons of embroideries, one of which had to have catered to the beauty pagent industry- Opulent. So, without further ado, the two stores I shopped at: Ebad Fabrics (the guys with $3/yard linen) 550 8th Ave (it's between 37th and 38th) Ny, NY 10018 Tel: 212-869-7826 (Wholesale and retail, they'll ship UPS, open 7 days a week) New York Fabrics 608 8th ave (between 39th and 40th) NY, NY 10018 Tel: 212-768-8737 (Wholesale and retail, "Mail and special orders welcome") Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 19:06:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05061A2015724 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 19:06:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0505R4S018557; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:05:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0509Eqq083362; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:09:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0509Bqq083306 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:09:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.48.26670def (2519) for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 19:05:14 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <48.26670def.2d2a043a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 19:05:14 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Shopping in Madrid X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know this list includes some well-traveled folks from Europe. I'll be in Madrid in early March. Any suggestions for fabric shopping? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 20:36:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i051awA2015890 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:36:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i051a14S023716; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 18:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i051dnqq020902; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 18:39:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav35.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i051dmqq020864 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 18:39:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:35:51 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav35.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 01:35:51 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <48.26670def.2d2a043a@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shopping in Madrid Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:35:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2004 01:35:51.0969 (UTC) FILETIME=[4109D110:01C3D32C] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No, but if you can find the Artemisa (or was it Artemisia?) restaurant, it's really worth going to. It's close to la Puerta del Sol. It's vegetarian, but it's nothing like that grain-and-nut vegetarian stuff. You won't even realize you're eating vegetarian, and the food is incredibly wonderful. Sorry it's off topic, I just couldn't resist! Here's the address (actually, addresses, there's another one now) Artemisia II Calle Tres Cruces, 4 2 blocks north of Puerto del Sol Artemisa I 4 blocks east of Puerto del Sol Ventura del la Vega (off San Jeronimo) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 7:05 PM Subject: [h-cost] Shopping in Madrid > I know this list includes some well-traveled folks from Europe. I'll be in > Madrid in early March. Any suggestions for fabric shopping? > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 22:43:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i053hYA2016141 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 22:43:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i053fg4S002150; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:41:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i053jSqq071317; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:45:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i053jQqq071308 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:45:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.108] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAC69091012E; Sun, 04 Jan 2004 22:32:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c3d33e$7b51d720$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mongolian Dells Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 22:46:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another book for Mongolian reference is "Mongol Costumes" by Henry Hanson. It was published by Rhodes International Science and Art Publication. Unfortunately it is presently out of print. I have been using a copy belonging to a friend for some time. Among the museum pieces shown, described, and discussed, fabrics even in early times were inclusive of wool, cotton, silk and skins. Because of the climate, quilted forms were much in use at all levels. Brocades and other forms of silk as we think of them today when the costume is 'Chinese" are a rather recent development. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mongolian Dells > In a message dated 1/3/2004 12:29:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jaurbik@optonline.net writes: > What would be some good web pages > or books to interlibrary loan? > Try: > Mongolia: The Legacy of Chinggis Khan, by Patricia Berger and Terese Tse > Bartholomew. 1995: Asian Art Museum of San Francisco. This was a catalogue for > the exhibit that also was mounted at the National Geographic Society in > Washington. CSA members got to tour the exhibit with the ambassador from Mongolia > and his family. It was great! > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 4 22:44:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i053iKA2016147 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 22:44:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i053hk4S002371; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:43:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i053lcqq072206; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:47:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i053laqq072189 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:47:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.108] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB48919D012E; Sun, 04 Jan 2004 22:34:32 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 22:48:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you have seen the Afghan coat pattern (Folkwear), you will be closer to the shape in use in the earlier times. Hansen has a lot of diagrams of the ethnic shapes generally in use. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.A.Urbik" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket > Thanks for the encouragement. I was sure that it would come out better > if i used a pattern, even though every says you really don't need one. > But i really like patters! it seems that everything i try to do without > a least a basic pattern to start on does not come out right. i think it > has to do with trying to fit on oneself. > > As soon as i find it, i will be overjoyed to prove you right :) At the > moment, i think it is in the same place as socks go in the dryer. i > cleaned house for *8* hours yesterday, with no good effect (well, except > that my house is clean....) trying to find the darn thing. ok, a good 4 > hours of was spent striating my sewing area... > > Jordana > > > Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > > I made that jacket when I was in high school, asymmetrical opening and all > ... > > That's why I still have it, though I never > > wore it anywhere -- it's too pretty to give away. I was not a great sewer by > > any means. I just thought that might encourage you! > > > > Gail Finke > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 05:24:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05AOZA2010846 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 05:24:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05AMr4S021899; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:22:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05AQeqq007417; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:26:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05AQbqq007388 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:26:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i05AOvA14238.; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:24:57 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 10:23:06 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 10:19:47 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nothing directly costume-related, but I did spend some Christmas money on the book of the film "Master and Commander", which includes fascinating detail about the costumes, such as the trouble they took to find the right fabrics (from all over the world), and how they made them look well-used. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 05:31:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05AV8A2010897 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 05:31:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05AUT4S022173; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:30:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05AYOqq009761; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:34:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05AYMqq009748 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:34:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i05AWkA14980.; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:32:46 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 10:30:56 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 10:27:47 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century poodle hair Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Use a heavier fabric? Your photos look great, but the cap appears to be made of a lighter-weight fabric than my coifs are. (Mind you, I don't have curly hair to hold them out!) >>> skud@infotrope.net 12/31/03 12:52:16 AM >>> And just to reply to myself... I took photos during my experiments this afternoon, which I have put here: http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/oop/1638/poodle/ The cap I'm wearing is a "hollar" cap based on the pattern in Kass's "Reconstructing History" set of patterns for 17th century caps. I need to figure out how to stop it sticking out sideways so much. Here's what it's meant to look like: http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar25w.jpg http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar26w.jpg http://www.costumes.org/history/17thcent/womensfashplates/hollarprints/hollar28w.jpg I think perhaps the lace would help weigh the edges down but I don't have any lace I like for the purpose. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 05:32:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05AWmA2010943 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 05:32:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05AWF4S022230; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:32:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05AaBqq010458; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:36:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Aa9qq010409 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:36:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.2b.4e354d67 (3932) for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 05:32:02 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <2b.4e354d67.2d2a9721@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 05:32:01 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/5/2004 5:24:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: book of the film "Master and Commander", which includes fascinating detail about the costumes, such as the trouble they took to find the right fabrics (from all over the world), and how they made them look well-used. Can you give the reference? I was particularly intrigued by the doctor's coat, which looks like a banyan but is short--it's what he wears to scramble around the islands. Banyans, of course, are associated with "learned men." I've only seen one pictoral reference to a shortened version of one, and I would love to know where the costume designer got the idea--an extant garment, a drawing or other pictoral reference, or did she make it up? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 06:27:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05BRYA2011406 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 06:27:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05BQx4S024056; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 04:26:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05BUsqq025382; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 04:30:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05BUqqq025367 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 04:30:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i05BTFA20501.; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:29:15 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 11:27:25 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 11:24:02 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "The making of "Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"" by Tom McGregor. Stephen's banyan is certainly mentioned; I'll check what it says this evening. >>> AnnBWass@aol.com 1/5/04 10:32:01 AM >>> In a message dated 1/5/2004 5:24:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: book of the film "Master and Commander", which includes fascinating detail about the costumes, such as the trouble they took to find the right fabrics (from all over the world), and how they made them look well-used. Can you give the reference? I was particularly intrigued by the doctor's coat, which looks like a banyan but is short--it's what he wears to scramble around the islands. Banyans, of course, are associated with "learned men." I've only seen one pictoral reference to a shortened version of one, and I would love to know where the costume designer got the idea--an extant garment, a drawing or other pictoral reference, or did she make it up? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 09:42:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05EgXA2011933 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:42:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Eft4S003538; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:41:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Ejqqq088509; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:45:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Ejkqq088452 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:45:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from your1p37d9kihs ([213.78.160.250]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ARX71408; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:41:37 GMT Message-ID: <023c01c3d39a$0546dba0$2d7f4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net><001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:41:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO the 75 years yahoo groups have folks from groups covering that period, several are in England I import for Alter years genberally, although I've never bought a medieval pattern Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 09:55:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05Et2A2011989 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:55:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05EsR4S004317; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:54:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05EwOqq094062; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:58:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05EwMqq094043 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:58:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i05EsNWJ019057 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:54:23 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c3d39b$ce7c9a90$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net><001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:54:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have all of these patterns except the tabards and capes and several others you haven't listed. They aren't for the novice sewer. Although I was a basically novice when I did my first one. I made a few mistakes, but learned as I did so. The thing about these patterns is that they put several pattern options on top of one another. It's not a good idea to cut these patterns out. Well, you could, but life would be more difficult. I trace the pattern I want onto something else, (usually interfacing) and use that to work with. The instructions are a little iffy sometimes, depending on the pattern, but I have always been able to figure them out. Muslins are a requirement with these patterns in my opinion, both for fitting and for getting a dry run with the instructions. I know a lot of people don't like these patterns, but I like them. I feel for many time periods, they are the most accurate ones available. They also come with documentation, which I like. As far as a supplier in the UK... not sure. However, they are available from several online sources. My favorite is www.pillagedvillage.com as they have the cheapest prices that I have seen and have been good folks (Note: I have no relationship to them other than as a satisfied customer). The SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) has some very active groups in the UK so they might want to explore that. I don't know what area they are going to, but some members of our local group were transferred over there for work. They send pictures of events with their new group and I am so jealous! They get to have events at real castles! I hope this helps! Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Kocian" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 9:28 AM Subject: [h-cost] 1290 patterns > Hello, > > I haven't been involved with medieval reenactment for a while, > and I had a question from a friend. Her family is interested in > years around 1290. She is in England and asked for us to track down > & send her these patterns: > > Period Pattern # 16 - Universal Tunics, c. 650-1310 > Period Pattern # 21 - Women's Cotehardies > Period Pattern # 23 - Men's Cotehardies > Period Pattern # 92 - Capes and Tabbards, c. 650-1650 > Period Pattern # 101 - Medieval Military Garments > > Are they available through AlterYears? Is there a source in > England for them, or any patterns available there for that era? Any > groups doing that era in England? They may eventually like to > participate in a group there, and if so it would be helpful to have > acceptable garb to begin with. > > Also, can anyone comment on the Period Patterns - are they done > well, instructions clear, yadda yadda? > > Thanks! > -Carol > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 09:55:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05EtLA2011995 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:55:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Esn4S004367; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:54:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Ewlqq094263; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:58:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Ewiqq094245 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:58:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23145 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:22:43 -0600 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:22:43 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns In-Reply-To: <023c01c3d39a$0546dba0$2d7f4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 5 Jan 2004, Melanie Wilson wrote: > the 75 years yahoo groups have folks from groups covering that period, > several are in England I was just about to recommend this myself. Carol, the group is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/75years/ and covers 1250-1325 Europe. Your friends can get good connections both via the email list and through the related websites. The archives will also be valuable to them. If they're not online, you might want to join the group yourself and ask your questions there. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 10:08:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05F8JA2012059 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:08:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05EVF4S002850; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:31:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05EZ8qq084172; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:35:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05EZ6qq084163 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:35:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.37] (pool180-206.patriot.net [209.249.180.206]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i05EV4lb027161 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:31:07 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> References: <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net> <001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:28:17 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1290 patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I haven't been involved with medieval reenactment for a while, and I had a question from a friend. Her family is interested in years around 1290. She is in England and asked for us to track down & send her these patterns: Period Pattern # 16 - Universal Tunics, c. 650-1310 Period Pattern # 21 - Women's Cotehardies Period Pattern # 23 - Men's Cotehardies Period Pattern # 92 - Capes and Tabbards, c. 650-1650 Period Pattern # 101 - Medieval Military Garments Are they available through AlterYears? Is there a source in England for them, or any patterns available there for that era? Any groups doing that era in England? They may eventually like to participate in a group there, and if so it would be helpful to have acceptable garb to begin with. Also, can anyone comment on the Period Patterns - are they done well, instructions clear, yadda yadda? Thanks! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 10:11:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05FBcA2012081 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:11:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05FB04S005518; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05FEuqq001744; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:14:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05FEsqq001727 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:14:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06940299pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.19.18]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DDA15EF4 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:11:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:18:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I want to make that coat/banyan! -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kate M Bunting Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 6:24 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? "The making of "Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"" by Tom McGregor. Stephen's banyan is certainly mentioned; I'll check what it says this evening. >>> AnnBWass@aol.com 1/5/04 10:32:01 AM >>> In a message dated 1/5/2004 5:24:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: book of the film "Master and Commander", which includes fascinating detail about the costumes, such as the trouble they took to find the right fabrics (from all over the world), and how they made them look well-used. Can you give the reference? I was particularly intrigued by the doctor's coat, which looks like a banyan but is short--it's what he wears to scramble around the islands. Banyans, of course, are associated with "learned men." I've only seen one pictoral reference to a shortened version of one, and I would love to know where the costume designer got the idea--an extant garment, a drawing or other pictoral reference, or did she make it up? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 10:27:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05FRwA2012171 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:27:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05FRK4S006629; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:27:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05FVIqq009989; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:31:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05FVFqq009964 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:31:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i05FRGPG012719 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:27:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.219] (tnt-1-27.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.219]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05FR2fl012407; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:27:04 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040103010927.20920.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040103010927.20920.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:00:04 -0800 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question on fur usage (12-14th cen, Tudor, Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i05FVFqq009964 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:09 PM -0500 1/2/04, Kathy Page wrote: >Heather wrote: > >>The skin breeches I see on that page are the polar-bear skin ones >>given in Hald -- am I missing another mention somewhere?  > >As far as I know. You know more about them than I do. In fact, they >don't, in my recollection, mention anywhere the original material >they were made from. Someone had told me that they weren't textile. > Ok, I though I was missing something on the web page, and I'm always on the lookout for new items to add to the database. > >I'm a bit surprised to see the polar bear skin ones suggested as >a >model for Viking clothing. > >They include a myriad of undergarments from various periods, that is >how I came across them. I am also working on the Bocksten Bog Man >right now, and am counfounded on undergarment issues. I was planning >on using whatever came close and was easily constructed for a >variety of reasons, but the bug was put in my ear to do a >conjectural set of underwear for the suit, and the more I think >about it, the more I am liking the idea. I have the time right now >to research and develop the pattern, so why not? Since this waaayy >out of my period, and I am not really knowledgeable on menswear >overall, any points in the right direction are well appreciated from >anyone. > The preservation conditions for the Bocksten find are the sort where you won't expect linen to survive, and linen is what we'd expect for underwear in this general time and place. Pictorial evidence suggests that the style of separate-leg hose found in this outfit are normally worn with linen braies underneath that are long enough to overlap with the hose (so probably past the knee, rather than something shorter). Similarly, pictorial evidence suggests an undertunic of a roughly similar cut to the woolen one. This is the route I'd tend to take. A relatively lightweight linen tunic, either the same cut or one that's slightly simpler and perhaps slightly shorter. There are a lot of different approaches to the cut of braies for this era, and very little solid evidence to support one over another. My personal choice has been to go with a cut similar to that seen in the surviving garments of the 14th c. Nubian bishop Timotheos -- not because I think there's any close connection between styles in Nubia and those in northern Europe, but simply because it's one of the plausible designs (on an engineering basis) and the Nubian example at least shows that somebody was using it in a roughly appropriate time. The cut involves two rectangular panels (one for each leg) and a square gusset in the crotch. The waist is sewn into a casing for a drawstring. Pictorial evidence suggests that the northern European garment would have been generous in cut and of relatively lightweight fabric. > >If you follow Hald's reasoning, she's suggesting that a handful of >>garments from the first couple of centuries of the common era may >>have inherited their particular cut from even earlier styles made >>from skins, where the cut was retained when the reason for it had >>been lost. > >If I am to understand your meaning, that the cut of trousers evolved >slower than most based on the use of this type of material, until it >was replaced with textile? > It's more that she's arguing that this particular cut (or rather, general group of cuts) would be extremely odd if it had been developed for woven cloth, but is more natural if it had been designed for skins. (She makes a similar argument for the rather oddly designed woman's "blouse" found in Bronze Age graves.) And therefore that the cloth examples may reflect a tailoring tradition that had been inherited from an earlier era when skins were the default material. I don't know that it needs to say anything about how slowly or quickly trouser styles evolve, since leather clothing shows up at many different times, and a cut designed for leather or skin could have been developed at several different times. I reserve judgement on Hald's theory on this point. I agree that there are some fabric garments whose cut seems rather roundabout and counter-intuitive for fabric. But every once in a while, I get the sense that Hald has fastened onto an IDEA and become overly attached to it, presents it with more certainty than may be warranted. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose (you may now call me Doctor) Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 10:35:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05FZPA2012256 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:35:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05FRV4S006657; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:27:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05FVTqq010088; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:31:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05FVFqq009967 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:31:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i05FRGPI012719 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:27:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.219] (tnt-1-27.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.219]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05FR2fl012407; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:27:04 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040103010927.20920.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040103010927.20920.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:00:04 -0800 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question on fur usage (12-14th cen, Tudor, Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i05FVFqq009967 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:09 PM -0500 1/2/04, Kathy Page wrote: >Heather wrote: > >>The skin breeches I see on that page are the polar-bear skin ones >>given in Hald -- am I missing another mention somewhere?  > >As far as I know. You know more about them than I do. In fact, they >don't, in my recollection, mention anywhere the original material >they were made from. Someone had told me that they weren't textile. > Ok, I though I was missing something on the web page, and I'm always on the lookout for new items to add to the database. > >I'm a bit surprised to see the polar bear skin ones suggested as >a >model for Viking clothing. > >They include a myriad of undergarments from various periods, that is >how I came across them. I am also working on the Bocksten Bog Man >right now, and am counfounded on undergarment issues. I was planning >on using whatever came close and was easily constructed for a >variety of reasons, but the bug was put in my ear to do a >conjectural set of underwear for the suit, and the more I think >about it, the more I am liking the idea. I have the time right now >to research and develop the pattern, so why not? Since this waaayy >out of my period, and I am not really knowledgeable on menswear >overall, any points in the right direction are well appreciated from >anyone. > The preservation conditions for the Bocksten find are the sort where you won't expect linen to survive, and linen is what we'd expect for underwear in this general time and place. Pictorial evidence suggests that the style of separate-leg hose found in this outfit are normally worn with linen braies underneath that are long enough to overlap with the hose (so probably past the knee, rather than something shorter). Similarly, pictorial evidence suggests an undertunic of a roughly similar cut to the woolen one. This is the route I'd tend to take. A relatively lightweight linen tunic, either the same cut or one that's slightly simpler and perhaps slightly shorter. There are a lot of different approaches to the cut of braies for this era, and very little solid evidence to support one over another. My personal choice has been to go with a cut similar to that seen in the surviving garments of the 14th c. Nubian bishop Timotheos -- not because I think there's any close connection between styles in Nubia and those in northern Europe, but simply because it's one of the plausible designs (on an engineering basis) and the Nubian example at least shows that somebody was using it in a roughly appropriate time. The cut involves two rectangular panels (one for each leg) and a square gusset in the crotch. The waist is sewn into a casing for a drawstring. Pictorial evidence suggests that the northern European garment would have been generous in cut and of relatively lightweight fabric. > >If you follow Hald's reasoning, she's suggesting that a handful of >>garments from the first couple of centuries of the common era may >>have inherited their particular cut from even earlier styles made >>from skins, where the cut was retained when the reason for it had >>been lost. > >If I am to understand your meaning, that the cut of trousers evolved >slower than most based on the use of this type of material, until it >was replaced with textile? > It's more that she's arguing that this particular cut (or rather, general group of cuts) would be extremely odd if it had been developed for woven cloth, but is more natural if it had been designed for skins. (She makes a similar argument for the rather oddly designed woman's "blouse" found in Bronze Age graves.) And therefore that the cloth examples may reflect a tailoring tradition that had been inherited from an earlier era when skins were the default material. I don't know that it needs to say anything about how slowly or quickly trouser styles evolve, since leather clothing shows up at many different times, and a cut designed for leather or skin could have been developed at several different times. I reserve judgement on Hald's theory on this point. I agree that there are some fabric garments whose cut seems rather roundabout and counter-intuitive for fabric. But every once in a while, I get the sense that Hald has fastened onto an IDEA and become overly attached to it, presents it with more certainty than may be warranted. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose (you may now call me Doctor) Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 11:29:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05GTDA2012502 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:29:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05GSV4S013040; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:28:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05GWQqq047269; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:32:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05GW9qq047042 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:32:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.149.1fa8bb8b (16484) for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:27:58 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <149.1fa8bb8b.2d2aea8e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:27:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/5/2004 2:27:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: such as the trouble they took to find the right fabrics (from all over the world), and how they made them look well-used. I was lucky enough to meet one of the costume designers on that movie. She was the stepmom of one of the lawyers I work with, and one sharp designer! Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 12:15:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05HFCA2012668 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:15:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05HES4S018871; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:14:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05HIQqq078324; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:18:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05H4Bqq067800 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:04:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 497520 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 09:00:06 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 09:00:06 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bob Trunk and Green Duck Designs... was Cussin' Janet Arnold again... From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040102020945.05842470@mail.frys.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This may be old news, but I saw Green Duck at a very small Renaissance faire near Sacramento, Calif. a couple of years ago and they said that they were going to get out of the business within the year. This is such old news I hesitated to mention it, but unless there's an update... I got this directly from the husband. He said they planned to retire from book selling because it just wasn't as successful as it had been for them and they were getting old enough and tired enough of the fair process that it wasn't much fun anymore. I don't know them well at all, but I talk to the vendors at fairs, and he seemed to be having a bad day and was pretty grumpy. Maybe what he said was just because of that day, but it seemed (just a feeling) that this was a definite plan, not a wish. And I remember being surprised because their booth was full of people - and they were buying books, not just looking at them. I had several myself and talked to him while he wrote up my sale. LynnD On 1/2/04 2:10 AM, "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" wrote: > >> I thought Green Duck had an online store, but I don't see that anymore. >> Anyone know what happened to them, > > I saw them, as visitors, at Dickens' Fair this year, but didn't ask about > Green Duck. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 12:28:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05HSVA2012692 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:28:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05HS14S020304; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05HVxqq087889; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:31:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05HVuqr087833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:31:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i05HPPPp022682 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:25:25 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 12:25:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FF99EE4.2010707@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 12:29:08 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Green Duck Designs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynn Downward wrote: > He said they planned to retire from book selling because > it just wasn't as successful as it had been for them and they were getting > old enough and tired enough of the fair process that it wasn't much fun > anymore. They were moderately active in my SCA shire in CA, and this is what he told me. I think I saw Jania selling at an event in October, but it wasn't a large booth, not like before. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 12:59:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05HxrA2012836 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:59:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05HxM4S023786; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:59:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05I3Eqq010499; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:03:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05I3Dqq010408 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:03:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 497728 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 09:59:08 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 09:59:08 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] bobbin lace From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040102054435.8AD7F394F@mprdmxin.myway.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wendy, I don't know where you are, but Lacis in Berkeley, CA, has pieces of bobbin lace for sale. Lynn On 1/1/04 9:44 PM, "Wendy" wrote: > Greetings, Anyone have a source for bobbin lace? The lace trim that I could > use for edging. I've been searching around and can only find completed pieces > like tablecloths or ornaments. I would love one day to start making bobbin > lace myself but life interferes with my hobbies too much as it is, now. > Thanks,Wendy > > _______________________________________________ > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. > Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 13:40:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05IeFA2012999 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:40:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Idb4S028166; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05IdZqq039034; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:39:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41504.mail.yahoo.com (web41504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i05IdXqq038979 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040105183928.81032.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:39:28 GMT Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:39:28 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Marquesate?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Good 1830s bonnet pattern? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi All, Since I had so much fun at the Rochester Dickens festival before Christmas, I am bound to make an 1830s costumes. Does anyone know of a good (!) 1830s bonnet pattern? I want to look as utterly tasteless and 'ugly' as possible. *chuckle* Something along the lines of this one, which I had borrowed (which is straw, however, and I am looking for one which can be made with fabric): http://www.livejournal.com/users/marquesate/23205.html Cheers Nicole ===== Email: nicole@kipar.org Website: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 13:59:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05IxPA2013078 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:59:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Iw74S000444; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:58:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Iw6qq051237; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:58:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Iw4qq051191 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:58:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion (213-78-100-80.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.100.80]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ARY27838; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:58:00 GMT Message-ID: <010f01c3d3be$c6026ac0$50644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040105183928.81032.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good 1830s bonnet pattern? Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:04:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Scary Nicole :) Bit late for me but I'll look at some of the Hat books I have Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 14:15:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05JFYA2013130 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:15:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05JEr4S002551; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:14:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05JEoqq063362; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:14:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41504.mail.yahoo.com (web41504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i05JEmqq063275 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:14:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040105191442.93310.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:14:42 GMT Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:14:42 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Marquesate?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good 1830s bonnet pattern? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <010f01c3d3be$c6026ac0$50644ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > Scary Nicole :) > > Bit late for me but I'll look at some of the Hat books I have > > Mel Cheers Mel! Ahhhh I like to be scary. *winks* I also still want an 1860s (old fashioned for the 1870s) black eccentric mad-spinster Fraeulein Adelheid outfit for the Victorian RP! I figure the 1830s version is her mother. ;-) Nicole ===== Email: nicole@kipar.org Website: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 14:22:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05JMQA2013165 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:22:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05JLk4S003359; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:21:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05JLhqq068539; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:21:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-HMR14.adinternal.hotmail.com (bay0-hmr14.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.241.213]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05JLgqq068467 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:21:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.244.85]) by BAY0-HMR14.adinternal.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:21:36 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:21:36 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav28.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:21:36 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040105191442.93310.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good 1830s bonnet pattern? Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:21:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2004 19:21:36.0308 (UTC) FILETIME=[22D59F40:01C3D3C1] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I understand the hat lust trust me. I saw this book some time back on ebay and the woman has a website. The book looks excellent and it can be found here: http://snipurl.com/3noe Now I've never bought it so I'm not sure how good it is but it might be one option. NAW Bice ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb For the month of January list people get $2 off shipping Check out the three auctions with weaving books Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= > I also still want an 1860s (old fashioned for the 1870s) black eccentric > mad-spinster Fraeulein Adelheid outfit for the Victorian RP! > > I figure the 1830s version is her mother. ;-) > > Nicole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 14:24:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05JOTA2013180 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:24:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05JNq4S003555; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:23:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05JNqqq070005; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:23:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05JNnqq069906 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:23:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be26.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.38]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 35E8F26296F for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:23:34 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <006f01c3d3c1$6ba83340$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:23:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1830 bonnet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hurrah, Nicole, you are back again. Very nice. You look hillarious, laughs out loud!!! Nice to have you back on the list. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 14:31:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05JVOA2013214 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:31:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05JUl4S004254; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:30:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05JUeqq076989; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:30:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05JUcqq076958 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:30:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip209.207-173-124.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.124.209]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27BC66A6C4 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:30:36 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 11:30:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Green Duck Designs... Message-ID: <3FF94ADF.13595.369E697F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <4.3.1.2.20040102020945.05842470@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LynnD wrote: > This may be old news, but I saw Green Duck at a very small Renaissance > faire near Sacramento, Calif. a couple of years ago and they said that > they were going to get out of the business within the year. This is > such old news I hesitated to mention it, but unless there's an > update... I got this directly from the husband. He said they planned > to retire from book selling because it just wasn't as successful as it > had been for them and they were getting old enough and tired enough of > the fair process that it wasn't much fun anymore. I don't know them > well at all, but I talk to the vendors at fairs, and he seemed to be > having a bad day and was pretty grumpy. Maybe what he said was just > because of that day, but it seemed (just a feeling) that this was a > definite plan, not a wish. And I remember being surprised because > their booth was full of people - and they were buying books, not just > looking at them. I had several myself and talked to him while he wrote > up my sale. He had more than just a bad day. He had a lot of bad days. I thought when he first told me that he was quitting that it was just a temporary thing. However, it persisted. I talked with his wife in October where she was merchanting. He's just not interested in it anymore (and hasn't been since that set of "bad days.") Jane says that it's also getting very difficult even with her current limited stock. She's having more and more problems taking all the stuff to the various events. It's part of the greying of America thing, that many of our successful people just can't keep doing what we've expected of them for years. Also, one of the things he pointed out was that the on-line bookstores were able to get better prices than the "mom and pop" sized ones. That means that it becomes less cost effective for them to go to events (even if the booth seems crowded every time you go by.) I really miss stores like theirs at events. I always looked forward to seeing what new costume/history sources they had been able to ferret out for us to expand our libraries and our knowledge base. There are still some out there, but they don't have the same name value. At least we still have Pastiche! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 15:02:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05K2lA2013444 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:02:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05K224S007530; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05K1wqq001752; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:01:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05K1qqq001624 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:01:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 498301 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 12:01:46 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 12:01:46 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Green Duck Designs... From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3FF94ADF.13595.369E697F@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 1/5/04 11:30 AM, "kat@grendal.rain.com" wrote: > LynnD wrote: >> This may be old news, but I saw Green Duck at a very small Renaissance >> faire near Sacramento, Calif. a couple of years ago and they said that >> they were going to get out of the business within the year. This is >> such old news I hesitated to mention it, but unless there's an >> update... I got this directly from the husband. He said they planned >> to retire from book selling because it just wasn't as successful as it >> had been for them and they were getting old enough and tired enough of >> the fair process that it wasn't much fun anymore. I don't know them >> well at all, but I talk to the vendors at fairs, and he seemed to be >> having a bad day and was pretty grumpy. Maybe what he said was just >> because of that day, but it seemed (just a feeling) that this was a >> definite plan, not a wish. And I remember being surprised because >> their booth was full of people - and they were buying books, not just >> looking at them. I had several myself and talked to him while he wrote >> up my sale. > > He had more than just a bad day. He had a lot of bad days. I thought > when he first told me that he was quitting that it was just a > temporary thing. However, it persisted. I talked with his wife in > October where she was merchanting. He's just not interested in it > anymore (and hasn't been since that set of "bad days.") Having visited and worked at the Northern California Renaissance and Dickens fairs since 1968, I understand completely. I know lots and lots of the craftsmen who have worked at these faires over the years, and many of them have left the life. One gets tired of the life of coming home only to pay bills and make more 'product', pack it up and get to the next venue. (I come from a time at fairs when, if you didn't make it or grow it, you couldn't sell it, so I think of craftspeople first and vendors second.) > Jane says that it's also getting very difficult even with her current > limited stock. She's having more and more problems taking all the > stuff to the various events. It's part of the greying of America > thing, that many of our successful people just can't keep doing what > we've expected of them for years. Yes, and we just don't appreciate those craftsmen or vendors that we've seen for years and years until we look up and realize that they're grey! And they are moving slowly. And they've lost interest in this hard life. I worked this Dickens faire for a wife/husband team who have sold porcelain goods and beads at fairs across the country for most of their adult lives - since the time when you found a spot at the fair, put your blanket down and sold from it. It's hard for them at 55 or so to do the same stuff they've done since their mid-20's simply because they're older and stiffer. Of course, they can put up a booth in their sleep because they've done it for so long, but it's physically harder on them. > Also, one of the things he pointed out was that the on-line > bookstores were able to get better prices than the "mom and pop" > sized ones. That means that it becomes less cost effective for them > to go to events (even if the booth seems crowded every time you go > by.) That's exactly what he said; I simply forgot that part of his disenchantment with the whole fair process. > I really miss stores like theirs at events. I always looked forward > to seeing what new costume/history sources they had been able to > ferret out for us to expand our libraries and our knowledge base. > There are still some out there, but they don't have the same name > value. At least we still have Pastiche! Kat I agree with you completely! > Kat > > LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 15:33:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05KX1A2013657 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:33:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05KWF4S010722; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:32:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05KWBqq021836; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:32:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f17.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05KWAqq021775 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:32:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:32:04 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.78 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:32:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.78] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question on fur usage (12-14th cen, Tudor, Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 14:32:04 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2004 20:32:04.0821 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB398050:01C3D3CA] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Heather Rose Jones > > >I'm a bit surprised to see the polar bear skin ones suggested as > >a >model for Viking clothing. > >They include a myriad of undergarments from various periods, that is > >how I came across them. I am also working on the Bocksten Bog Man > >right now, and am counfounded on undergarment issues. I was planning > >on using whatever came close and was easily constructed for a > >variety of reasons, but the bug was put in my ear to do a > >conjectural set of underwear for the suit, and the more I think > >about it, the more I am liking the idea. I have the time right now > >to research and develop the pattern, so why not? Since this waaayy > >out of my period, and I am not really knowledgeable on menswear > >overall, any points in the right direction are well appreciated from > >anyone. >The preservation conditions for the Bocksten find are the sort where >you won't expect linen to survive, and linen is what we'd expect for >underwear in this general time and place. Pictorial evidence >suggests that the style of separate-leg hose found in this outfit are >normally worn with linen braies underneath that are long enough to >overlap with the hose (so probably past the knee, rather than >something shorter). Similarly, pictorial evidence suggests an >undertunic of a roughly similar cut to the woolen one. There are several conjectual patterns for breches (or braies if you must :) ) on line. I'll eventually have mine up there when I get finished with the page. http://www.bumply.com/Medieval/braies.htm http://www.randyasplund.com/browse/medieval/chausse1.html being the most common. >This is the route I'd tend to take. A relatively lightweight linen >tunic, either the same cut or one that's slightly simpler and perhaps >slightly shorter. There are a lot of different approaches to the cut >of braies for this era, and very little solid evidence to support one >over another. My personal choice has been to go with a cut similar >to that seen in the surviving garments of the 14th c. Nubian bishop >Timotheos -- not because I think there's any close connection between >styles in Nubia and those in northern Europe, but simply because it's >one of the plausible designs (on an engineering basis) and the Nubian >example at least shows that somebody was using it in a roughly >appropriate time. The cut involves two rectangular panels (one for >each leg) and a square gusset in the crotch. The waist is sewn into >a casing for a drawstring. Pictorial evidence suggests that the >northern European garment would have been generous in cut and of >relatively lightweight fabric. I'm unfamiliar with this one. Do you have a source available? (Must learn more...) The design I use is actually loosely based on one from the Caucasus from this period which iwas made from three large equal sized squares of linen (2 legs and a gusset). I've modified this so that the gusset is about half the square area of the leg pieces and . It works, but it's still badly flawed somewhere. >I reserve judgement on Hald's theory on this point. I agree that >there are some fabric garments whose cut seems rather roundabout and >counter-intuitive for fabric. But every once in a while, I get the >sense that Hald has fastened onto an IDEA and become overly attached >to it, presents it with more certainty than may be warranted. I do think it's a bit of a stretch, and really what I got from what she wrote had more to do with the whole gusset thing as being crucial. Curiously, in one of the sagas (don't ask me right now which one since I couldn't tell you if you made me - it's at home), a woman is being accused of wearing men's garments since she was wearing gusseted trousers, which sort of implies that women might wear ungusseted trousers, if they wore them at all. Of course, the Skjoldehamn trousers from northern Norway and might not be Norwegian have no gusset. Personally I really want to see the woollen "underwear" from Hull. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable dial-up Internet access now with our limited-time introductory offer. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 15:46:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05KkIA2013717 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:46:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Kjf4S012288; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Kjeqq031158; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:45:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta14.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta14.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05KjZqq031107 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:45:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) by mta14.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HR1006CQAZJ3G@mta14.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 15:45:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 15:45:38 -0500 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket In-reply-to: <001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3FF9CCF2.6040507@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) References: <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net> <001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > If you have seen the Afghan coat pattern (Folkwear), you will be closer to > the shape in use in the earlier times. Hansen has a lot of diagrams of the > ethnic shapes generally in use. > Kathleen Kathleen, the only afgan thing that they currently carry is Afghani Nomad Dress, 107 (http://www.folkwear.com/107.html) which i don't think is what you are referring to. Is the pattern you mention an old one? Jordana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 16:16:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05LGVA2013767 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:16:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05LFr4S015297; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:15:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05LFjqq051784; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:15:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12901.mail.yahoo.com (web12901.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.68]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i05LFgqq051754 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:15:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040105211542.17228.qmail@web12901.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.48.41.31] by web12901.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:15:42 EST Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:15:42 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bocksten (was Question on fur usage) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather wrote: >Pictorial evidence suggests that the style of separate-leg hose found in >this outfit are normally worn with linen braies underneath that are long >enough to overlap with the hose Similarly, pictorial evidence >suggests an undertunic of a roughly similar cut to the woolen one. I'm slowly working my way through Nockert's book on the topic with the help of a Swedish friend, I had pretty much assumed even before this that linens would not have survived. The undertunic design I had planned on was very very simple, using the _don't cut it if it's not necessary_ philosophy. I had started basing it on the Viborg shirt, but I am waiting to slowly wade my way through the rest of what the book has to say before I dig much deeper. (Mostly it's plain ol curiosity, I have my doubts that there is much more than what has already been translated available in there.) The Skjoldehamn under tunic is a thought as well, although the collar seems incongruent to use under the Bocksten kjortel. Is there pictorial evidence either way suggesting this cominbation was used at all? Do you know of where I can find artwork that is relevant to Sweden during this period? >There are a lot of different approaches to the cut >of braies for this era, and very little solid evidence to support one >over another. >The cut involves two rectangular panels (one for >each leg) and a square gusset in the crotch. The waist is sewn into >a casing for a drawstring. Pictorial evidence suggests that the >northern European garment would have been generous in cut and of >relatively lightweight fabric. That was pretty much how I was going to do it. The square gusset is a good idea. I was going to simply make them full enough to fit around the thigh, but I hadn't done a test run of this to deal with the binding issue - that solves the problem ahead of time, it's only a matter of making the square the right size to accomodate the depth of the seat. The person I am making this for is one of those people that is six places at once, young single male. So I have to accomodate modern practicality in my determined authenticity compulsions. I am torn between using some griege linen or some unknown fibre/burn tested as cellulose based white fabric for the undergarments. Both are the right weight. The kjortel and hosen is a 80% wool/cotton twill, a little lighter than the original, but since he is running about all the time, this is practical for him. I tripped on some wonderful melton wool for the cloak and liripipe, so that isn't an issue. Kathy --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 16:24:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05LOOA2013798 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:24:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05LNZ4S016178; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:23:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05LNWqq056760; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:23:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05LNVqq056674 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:23:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0761425CE for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:32:58 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FF9D5DF.6010206@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 15:23:43 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] plaited braid stitch X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All, I'm looking for illustrated instructions on how to do this elaborate embroidery stitch. I have an embroidered doublet I am inspired to finish, after seeing the examples in _Historical Fashion in Detail_. I could swear there was an example in that book, but if there was I cannot find it now. Does anybody know of a web source for this stitch? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 16:45:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05LjcA2014190 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:45:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Lip4S018491; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:44:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Linqq071290; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:44:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Limqq071274 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:44:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.113] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8A6A6C012E; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:35:34 -0500 Message-ID: <001701c3d3d5$d032f0c0$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net><001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> <3FF9CCF2.6040507@optonline.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:49:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, it is. About 15 years ago. It is a pattern that has had a lot of interpretations through the years, some of which you can find in Art to Wear Books, for a modern form. It is basically two rectangles front and back. The front is split neck to hem. The flare of the fit is created with unequal pie shapes inserted at the sides, which have a slit about 12 inches. The inserts produce a somewhat square arm hole . Using two (or three) layers, the whole is bordered with a strait edged binding. You can see how this pattern lends itself to wonderful design work. About 40 pieces in all. The clever bit for the earlier ethnic style would make it possible to make a rather full garment out of smaller textiles. Kathleen----- Original Message ----- From: "J.A.Urbik" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > If you have seen the Afghan coat pattern (Folkwear), you will be closer to > > the shape in use in the earlier times. Hansen has a lot of diagrams of the > > ethnic shapes generally in use. > > Kathleen > > Kathleen, the only afgan thing that they currently carry is Afghani > Nomad Dress, 107 (http://www.folkwear.com/107.html) which i don't > think is what you are referring to. Is the pattern you mention an old one? > > Jordana > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 16:57:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05LvWA2014634 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:57:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Luu4S019786; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Lusqq079515; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:56:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Luqqq079480 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:56:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i05Lupla006991 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:56:51 -0500 Message-Id: <200401052156.i05Lupla006991@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:52:13 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Robin & Melanie for the 75 years list info. That sounds like it will be helpful. Teena, it's good to know about the patterns being complicated. Are there any alternatives out there, or are they the best available? My friends are Americans living in England, they were in Markland 20 years ago, and they know of the SCA. I'm not sure what group they're considering. Due to time constraints, I think she was interested in finding someone to make the garb for them. I thought someone who did that period might be worthwhile, as an alternative to having a modern-day seamstress work with a complicated pattern. Any 1290 costumers out there in England? -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 17:30:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05MUCA2015269 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:30:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05MTX4S023023; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:29:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05MTWqq001686; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:29:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05MTUqq001667 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:29:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06940299pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.19.18]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7486B15ED1 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:29:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:36:33 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001701c3d3d5$d032f0c0$715183d1@rmitchellras> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Got a picture anywhere? Now I'm curious to see what the coat looks like and did not see anything on a cursury search for the pattern. -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 4:50 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket Yes, it is. About 15 years ago. It is a pattern that has had a lot of interpretations through the years, some of which you can find in Art to Wear Books, for a modern form. It is basically two rectangles front and back. The front is split neck to hem. The flare of the fit is created with unequal pie shapes inserted at the sides, which have a slit about 12 inches. The inserts produce a somewhat square arm hole . Using two (or three) layers, the whole is bordered with a strait edged binding. You can see how this pattern lends itself to wonderful design work. About 40 pieces in all. The clever bit for the earlier ethnic style would make it possible to make a rather full garment out of smaller textiles. Kathleen----- Original Message ----- From: "J.A.Urbik" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > If you have seen the Afghan coat pattern (Folkwear), you will be closer to > > the shape in use in the earlier times. Hansen has a lot of diagrams of the > > ethnic shapes generally in use. > > Kathleen > > Kathleen, the only afgan thing that they currently carry is Afghani > Nomad Dress, 107 (http://www.folkwear.com/107.html) which i don't > think is what you are referring to. Is the pattern you mention an old one? > > Jordana > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 17:44:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05MilA2015435 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:44:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Mi84S024482; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Mi7qq011329; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:44:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05Mi5qq011255 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:44:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004010522440001500p169be>; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:44:00 +0000 Message-ID: <3FF9E8AF.8080409@fenris.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 14:43:59 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket References: <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net><001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> <3FF9CCF2.6040507@optonline.net> <001701c3d3d5$d032f0c0$715183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <001701c3d3d5$d032f0c0$715183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Turkish coat or Tibet Panel coat? liz young Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >Yes, it is. About 15 years ago. It is a pattern that has had a lot of >interpretations through the years, some of which you can find in Art to Wear >Books, for a modern form. It is basically two rectangles front and back. >The front is split neck to hem. The flare of the fit is created with >unequal pie shapes inserted at the sides, which have a slit about 12 inches. >The inserts produce a somewhat square arm hole . Using two (or three) >layers, the whole is bordered with a strait edged binding. >You can see how this pattern lends itself to wonderful design work. About 40 >pieces in all. The clever bit for the earlier ethnic style would make it >possible to make a rather full garment out of smaller textiles. >Kathleen----- Original Message ----- >From: "J.A.Urbik" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 3:45 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket > > > > >>Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >> >> > > > >>>If you have seen the Afghan coat pattern (Folkwear), you will be closer >>> >>> >to > > >>>the shape in use in the earlier times. Hansen has a lot of diagrams of >>> >>> >the > > >>>ethnic shapes generally in use. >>>Kathleen >>> >>> >>Kathleen, the only afgan thing that they currently carry is Afghani >>Nomad Dress, 107 (http://www.folkwear.com/107.html) which i don't >>think is what you are referring to. Is the pattern you mention an old >> >> >one? > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 18:57:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i05NvCA2016108 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:57:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05NuT4S002975; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:56:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05NuMqq061598; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:56:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fed1mtao06.cox.net (fed1mtao06.cox.net [68.6.19.125]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05NuKqq061488 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:56:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mudsleidi@cox.net) Received: from smtp.west.cox.net ([172.18.180.53]) by fed1mtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040105235612.VSSU11223.fed1mtao06.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:56:12 -0500 From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mongolian Dells Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:56:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20040105235612.VSSU11223.fed1mtao06.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >They below to a household that tries to to a bunch of >mongolian stuff. I know *NOTHING* about mongolian stuff. >Not quite sure what time period, but i would assume around >Gengihs Khan would be the time period i am looking for. I'm also doing some costuming for a "Horde" of Mongols who are representing the late 15th century. I didn't know much about the period or the culture, either but found a very little bit on the web--the sites that have been linked. The way I understand it, broadly stated, earlier Mongol costume looked much like this: http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/plate/102.jpg or http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/plate/104.jpg and the later (and what is now known as traditional Mongolian costume) looks much like the pattern for the Folkwear Chinese jacket to which you referred. My customers have provided their own fabric (sometimes this is a good thing ;-), so the coats I'm making have wool outer fabric and silk twill lining (wool fulled, silk washed, both vat dyed.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 20:10:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i061A2A2016288 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:10:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0619M4S008725; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:09:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0619Iqq098536; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:09:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0619Gqq098520 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:09:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (syr-24-58-121-78.twcny.rr.com [24.58.121.78]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i060paj7016678 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:51:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040105194314.00ba2dc0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:51:43 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] plaited braid stitch In-Reply-To: <3FF9D5DF.6010206@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, this is one of my all time favorite stitches! I love the effect and it is really simple, just looks like it took you forever. I have a small Flemish coif that is white worked on the main of the cap with a circle made of this stitch. People just drool over it, and I'm always surprised because it was so little fuss. I have a DMC book on hardangar which is the source I used to learn the stitch. It's Book 1 or 2 can't recall right off. Basically its a ground of interconnected x's in whatever shape you want, and then a thread passed over and under the ground of x's. But the plaited thread never goes through the canvas, hence that lovely looped look. A trick I have picked up is on larger scale work to couch down some of the exterior loops, it keeps them from flopping, becoming unbalanced or snagging on your sweeties sleeve buttons. Do enjoy it. It's such a lovely embellishment- and stunning as whitework or frostwork. Really lets the embroidery speak for itself. Bridgette Avid promoter of Plait stitch >All, > >I'm looking for illustrated instructions on how to do this elaborate >embroidery stitch. I have an embroidered doublet I am inspired to finish, >after seeing the examples in _Historical Fashion in Detail_. I could swear >there was an example in that book, but if there was I cannot find it now. > >Does anybody know of a web source for this stitch? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 20:39:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i061d4A2016344 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:39:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061cR4S011035; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:38:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061cPqq012642; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:38:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061cOqr012622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:38:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net (acty5098.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.250.98]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i061cMhi012242 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:38:23 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFA118A.1090802@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:38:18 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] plaited braid stitch References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040105194314.00ba2dc0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040105194314.00ba2dc0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. The means of creating the plaited braid stitch is illustrated in the magazine "Fine Lines", a publication of the Historic Needlwork Guild, Inc. PO Box 8928 New Castle PA 16107 Dont remember the issue (the last one, I think) Contact is hngoffice@aol.com and website at www.historicneedlework.com Good Luck, Mike T. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 20:43:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i061hrA2016351 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:43:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061hI4S011320; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:43:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061hHqq014994; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:43:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061hGqq014953 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:43:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B71425CE for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:21:21 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FFA0B66.1010404@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:12:06 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mongolian Dells References: <20040105235612.VSSU11223.fed1mtao06.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> In-Reply-To: <20040105235612.VSSU11223.fed1mtao06.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO mudsleidi@cox.net wrote: > The way I understand it, broadly stated, earlier Mongol costume looked much like this: > > http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/plate/102.jpg > or > http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/plate/104.jpg > Looks like the Folkwear Tibetan Panel Coat with sleeves added. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 20:52:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i061qEA2016357 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:52:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061pd4S011876; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:51:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061pcqq018770; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:51:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f22.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061paqq018709 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:51:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:51:31 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.33 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:51:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.33] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:51:30 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2004 01:51:31.0267 (UTC) FILETIME=[9B511130:01C3D3F7] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Bocksten (was Question on fur usage) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This isn't really for public consumption yet (clearly it's about half done) but if there's anything helpful here: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/trousers/breechesindex.htm Marc _________________________________________________________________ Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_customize _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 20:55:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i061tEA2016361 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:55:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061sd4S012094; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:54:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061scqq020018; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:54:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aardvark.edurostream.com (aardvark.edurostream.com [12.17.11.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061saqq019978 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:54:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sue@victorianmillinery.com) Received: from D7W6QR21 (ddu138-140.xecu.net [216.127.138.140]) by aardvark.edurostream.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 6.0.6) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:56:33 -0500 Message-ID: <001601c3d3f8$081a7e50$8c8a7fd8@D7W6QR21> From: "Sue" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040105183928.81032.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good 1830s bonnet pattern? Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:54:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I carry that 1830's bonnet in triple crown buckrum. See http://www.victorianmillinery.com/supplies/forms.cfm Cordially, Sue Shatto 401 Fairview Ave Frederick, MD 21701 http:\\www.VictorianMillinery.com 301-694-8950 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquesate" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 1:39 PM Subject: [h-cost] Good 1830s bonnet pattern? > Hi All, > > Since I had so much fun at the Rochester Dickens festival before Christmas, I > am bound to make an 1830s costumes. Does anyone know of a good (!) 1830s bonnet > pattern? I want to look as utterly tasteless and 'ugly' as possible. *chuckle* > > Something along the lines of this one, which I had borrowed (which is straw, > however, and I am looking for one which can be made with fabric): > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/marquesate/23205.html > > Cheers > > Nicole > > ===== > Email: nicole@kipar.org > Website: http://www.kipar.org > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 20:55:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i061twA2016364 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:55:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061tN4S012155; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:55:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061tNqq020401; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:55:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i061tKqq020368 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:55:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A58D7C040A; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:55:25 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] plaited braid stitch Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:55:24 -0600 Message-ID: <005301c3d3f8$275e2fa0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3FF9D5DF.6010206@reddawn.net> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hope this might help you-- http://home.iprimus.com.au/ijerry/sharonb/stitchdict/index.html -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 3:24 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] plaited braid stitch All, I'm looking for illustrated instructions on how to do this elaborate embroidery stitch. I have an embroidered doublet I am inspired to finish, after seeing the examples in _Historical Fashion in Detail_. I could swear there was an example in that book, but if there was I cannot find it now. Does anybody know of a web source for this stitch? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 21:01:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06215A2016380 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:01:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0620U4S012458; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:00:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0620Tqq022612; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:00:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fed1mtao04.cox.net (fed1mtao04.cox.net [68.6.19.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0620Rqq022555 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:00:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mudsleidi@cox.net) Received: from ZORRO.cox.net ([68.7.135.77]) by fed1mtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20040106020018.QKAC3905.fed1mtao04.cox.net@ZORRO.cox.net> for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:00:18 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20040105175422.00b45530@pop.west.cox.net> X-Sender: mudsleidi@pop.west.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:00:29 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heidi Fox Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mongolian Dells In-Reply-To: <3FFA0B66.1010404@reddawn.net> References: <20040105235612.VSSU11223.fed1mtao06.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> <20040105235612.VSSU11223.fed1mtao06.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That or Folkwear's Turkish Coat with one front panel extended to further overlap the other, and with an extra side gore. And a center back opening to about tailbone--the Mongols were horseriders. Heidi > The way I understand it, broadly stated, earlier Mongol costume looked > much like this: >>http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/plate/102.jpg >>or >>http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/plate/104.jpg > > >Looks like the Folkwear Tibetan Panel Coat with sleeves added. > > > >Dawn > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 21:35:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i062ZgA2016497 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:35:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i062Z14S014663; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i062Ywqq038458; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:34:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav42.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i062Yvqq038406 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:34:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:34:51 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav42.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 02:34:51 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401052156.i05Lupla006991@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:34:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2004 02:34:51.0889 (UTC) FILETIME=[A9687E10:01C3D3FD] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Teena, it's good to know about the patterns being complicated. Are there > any alternatives out there, or are they the best available? There's la Fleur de Lyse, but they're in Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/gousse-matte/fdl/Patterns.html#MAR I've never used them, but they're supposed to be good. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 22:17:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i063HnA2016556 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:17:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063HC4S017881; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:17:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063HAqq057233; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:17:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063H2qq057091 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:17:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-202.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.202]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063GuHq028732 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:16:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040105183047.04c454e0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:31:17 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket In-Reply-To: <001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> References: <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >If you have seen the Afghan coat pattern (Folkwear), you will be closer to >the shape in use in the earlier times. Hansen has a lot of diagrams of the >ethnic shapes generally in use. What about some of the stuff in Tilke? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 22:18:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i063I4A2016563 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:18:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063HU4S017952; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:17:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063HTqq057464; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:17:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063H6qq057178 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:17:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-202.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.202]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063GuI0028732 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:17:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040105185007.05894870@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:51:10 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Nothing directly costume-related, but I did spend some Christmas money >on the book of the film "Master and Commander", which includes >fascinating detail about the costumes, such as the trouble they took to >find the right fabrics (from all over the world), and how they made them >look well-used. What's the ISBN on that? The only books I have from that set are the 20 volumes of story, the bio of the author, the book of the places mentioned, and the cookbook. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 22:18:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i063IEA2016567 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:18:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063Hd4S017980; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:17:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063Hdqq057585; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:17:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063H9qq057205 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:17:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-202.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.202]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063GuI2028732 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:17:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040105185754.05a27d90@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:07:58 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket In-Reply-To: <3FF9E8AF.8080409@fenris.net> References: <001701c3d3d5$d032f0c0$715183d1@rmitchellras> <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net> <001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> <3FF9CCF2.6040507@optonline.net> <001701c3d3d5$d032f0c0$715183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Turkish coat or Tibet Panel coat? Max Tilke wrote three books; one on folk art, one showing ethnic people in their clothes, and one with just the ethnic garments. His book on ethnic garments has every ethnic thing Folkwear ever published patterns for. They are all drawings, but they show the garments laid out flat so the seams show. If these are different, he shows both front and back. These have all been republished within the last decade or two. My copy of the garment book is pre-ISBN, but my copy of the folk art book is recent. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 22:21:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i063LdA2016578 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:21:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063L64S018314; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:21:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063L5qq059288; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:21:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063L3qq059266 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:21:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.106] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7759E6A0106; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:11:49 -0500 Message-ID: <003601c3d404$ca32f240$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net><001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> <3FF9CCF2.6040507@optonline.net><001701c3d3d5$d032f0c0$715183d1@rmitchellras> <3FF9E8AF.8080409@fenris.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:25:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Elizabeth, you are right indeed! The Afghan coat is more like the Turkish version that differs in the shape of the front overlap. The Folkwear book of Ethnic clothing that came out last(?) year has the pattern shapes for the Tibet Panel coat . The other shapes given for early Mongolian garments is taken from"Costume Patterns and Designs" by Max Tilke. There are several pages following the two designs already posted that give a nice over-view of Chinese clothing development. I have worked with a lot of these patterns and find them fascinating in the variety of ways that they are cut, sewn, embellished and such. One begins to get an idea of how clothing the human form developed in various cultures, given the fabrics and other materials available. And especially creating garments both practical and beautiful and functional. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Young" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket > Turkish coat or Tibet Panel coat? > > liz young > > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > >Yes, it is. About 15 years ago. It is a pattern that has had a lot of > >interpretations through the years, some of which you can find in Art to Wear > >Books, for a modern form. It is basically two rectangles front and back. > >The front is split neck to hem. The flare of the fit is created with > >unequal pie shapes inserted at the sides, which have a slit about 12 inches. > >The inserts produce a somewhat square arm hole . Using two (or three) > >layers, the whole is bordered with a strait edged binding. > >You can see how this pattern lends itself to wonderful design work. About 40 > >pieces in all. The clever bit for the earlier ethnic style would make it > >possible to make a rather full garment out of smaller textiles. > >Kathleen----- Original Message ----- > >From: "J.A.Urbik" > >To: "Historical Costume" > >Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 3:45 PM > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket > > > > > > > > > >>Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > >> > >> > > > > > > > >>>If you have seen the Afghan coat pattern (Folkwear), you will be closer > >>> > >>> > >to > > > > > >>>the shape in use in the earlier times. Hansen has a lot of diagrams of > >>> > >>> > >the > > > > > >>>ethnic shapes generally in use. > >>>Kathleen > >>> > >>> > >>Kathleen, the only afgan thing that they currently carry is Afghani > >>Nomad Dress, 107 (http://www.folkwear.com/107.html) which i don't > >>think is what you are referring to. Is the pattern you mention an old > >> > >> > >one? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 22:39:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i063dIA2016616 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:39:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063cg4S019383; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:38:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063ccqq066954; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:38:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063caqq066932 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:38:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i063ca0E031329 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:38:36 -0500 Message-ID: <03ab01c3d406$90f2cf30$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401052156.i05Lupla006991@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:38:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Coincidentally, I am making up the Fleur de Lyse's Romanesque men and women's patterns right now. The instructions are a bit vague... and everything is in french with a translation. But it is a simple construction so it isn't a biggie. I haven't finished yet... only the men's bliaut is done (overtunic). But it looks good so far. Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns > > Teena, it's good to know about the patterns being complicated. Are > there > > any alternatives out there, or are they the best available? > > There's la Fleur de Lyse, but they're in Canada. > http://www3.sympatico.ca/gousse-matte/fdl/Patterns.html#MAR I've never used > them, but they're supposed to be good. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 22:44:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i063itA2016630 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:44:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063iH4S019846; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:44:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063iGqq069289; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:44:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063iEqr069268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:44:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i063itKY020393 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:44:55 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i063itpl020391 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:44:55 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:44:54 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401052244.54810.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 05 January 2004 09:28 am, Carol Kocian wrote: > Hello, > > I haven't been involved with medieval reenactment for a while, > and I had a question from a friend. Her family is interested in > years around 1290. She is in England and asked for us to track down > & send her these patterns: > > Period Pattern # 16 - Universal Tunics, c. 650-1310 > Period Pattern # 21 - Women's Cotehardies > Period Pattern # 23 - Men's Cotehardies > Period Pattern # 92 - Capes and Tabbards, c. 650-1650 > Period Pattern # 101 - Medieval Military Garments > > Are they available through AlterYears? So far as I know, they are, though I haven't ordered from AlterYears in years. They were certainly in the last AlterYears catalog I got. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 22:51:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i063pYA2016643 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:51:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063p04S020565; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063oxqq072622; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:50:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063ouqq072600 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:50:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.116] (pm7-116.eos.net [205.133.149.116]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i063otc2016381 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:50:55 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:51:43 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401052244.i05MiOqr011516@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] folkwear pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lloyd: I think you're referring to the Tibetan Panel Coat pattern, not the Afghan pattern. It's number 118 and you can see it on the web site (www.folkwear.com). I was just looking at it yesterday, that's how I know. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 23:14:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i064EMA2016676 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:14:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i064Dk4S022224; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:13:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i064Dhqq082822; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:13:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i064Deqq082805 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:13:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from sdn-ar-008neomahp123.dialsprint.net ([63.178.246.187] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Adib5-0003w9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:13:40 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20040105162731.0120b3d8@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:31:14 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: [h-cost] Re: Christmas and circuit breakers In-Reply-To: <200401041902.i04J21qr056469@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > > >Delurking for a moment... > >I found out (the hard way) that surge protectors only last for a >couple years. We had our computer plugged into one, but when we >experienced a blackout a couple years ago, it blew our hard drive. >One of the pc tech people at my job explained to me that the >constants spikes & surges of power "wear out" the surge protector >after time. > >When you have PCs, sewing machines, TVs, etc that are $1000+, it's >definitely worth it to invest in a $20 surge protector every few >years! > >Back to lurking, >Mary Surge protectors have ratings which vary by model and manufacturer; say 1100 Joules as an example. That means it can protect up to 1100 Joules of spike, cumulative. So, if you have a spike of 200 Joules, the protector will absorb it, but its now only rated for 900 Joules. Once the protector has absorbed its total of 1100 Joules its a glorified extension cord. I would recommend changing it yearly at a minimum and always after some major event such as a black out. Pierre "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 5 23:17:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i064HdA2016693 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:17:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063La4S018360; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:21:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063LZqq059548; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:21:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fed1mtao08.cox.net (fed1mtao08.cox.net [68.6.19.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i063LWqq059467 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:21:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mudsleidi@cox.net) Received: from ZORRO.cox.net ([68.7.135.77]) by fed1mtao08.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20040106032124.YPSH11788.fed1mtao08.cox.net@ZORRO.cox.net> for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:21:24 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20040105192046.02a6b7f0@pop.west.cox.net> X-Sender: mudsleidi@pop.west.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:21:37 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heidi Fox Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040105185754.05a27d90@mail.frys.com> References: <3FF9E8AF.8080409@fenris.net> <001701c3d3d5$d032f0c0$715183d1@rmitchellras> <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net> <001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> <3FF9CCF2.6040507@optonline.net> <001701c3d3d5$d032f0c0$715183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Max Tilke wrote three books; one on folk art, one showing ethnic people in >their clothes, and one with just the ethnic garments. His book on ethnic >garments has every ethnic thing Folkwear ever published patterns >for. They are all drawings, but they show the garments laid out flat so >the seams show. If these are different, he shows both front and >back. These have all been republished within the last decade or two. My >copy of the garment book is pre-ISBN, but my copy of the folk art book is >recent. > > CarolynKayta Barrows Actually, the two images to which I linked were from his text which is online here: http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 00:16:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i065GxA2017030 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 00:16:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i065GN4S026427; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:16:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i065GLqq009980; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:16:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.k12.hi.us (honu.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i065GJqq009947 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:16:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from makani (makani.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.195]) by smtp.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EBEA506D8 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:13:03 -1000 (HST) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:14:59 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] plaited braid stitch In-Reply-To: <3FF9D5DF.6010206@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm looking for illustrated instructions on how to do this elaborate > embroidery stitch. Not a web source but there's a very clear diagram in _Mary_Thomas's_Dictionary_of_Embroidery_Stitches_. annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 01:07:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0667FA2017646 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 01:07:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0666e4S029907; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:06:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0666cqq029345; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:06:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0666aqq029329 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:06:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0666ZPG022639 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:06:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.77] (tnt-1-141.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.77]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0666Vfl022596 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:06:33 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:14:03 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question on fur usage (12-14th cen, Tudor, Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 2:32 PM -0600 1/5/04, Marc Carlson wrote: >>From: Heather Rose Jones >>over another. My personal choice has been to go with a cut similar >>to that seen in the surviving garments of the 14th c. Nubian bishop >>Timotheos -- not because I think there's any close connection between >>styles in Nubia and those in northern Europe, but simply because it's >>one of the plausible designs (on an engineering basis) and the Nubian >>example at least shows that somebody was using it in a roughly >>appropriate time. The cut involves two rectangular panels (one for >>each leg) and a square gusset in the crotch. The waist is sewn into >>a casing for a drawstring. Pictorial evidence suggests that the >>northern European garment would have been generous in cut and of >>relatively lightweight fabric. > >I'm unfamiliar with this one. Do you have a source available? (Must >learn more...) That would be: Crowfoot, Elisabeth Grace. 1977. "The Clothing of a Fourteenth-Century Nubian Bishop" in Studies in Textile History, ed. Veronika Gervers. Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto. A nice detailed descriptive article. The surviving outfit is essentially complete, having taken the hot/dry route to survival. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose (you may now call me Doctor) Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 01:07:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0667TA2017650 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 01:07:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0666s4S029929; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:06:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0666sqq029493; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:06:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0666eqq029370 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:06:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0666cPG022677 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:06:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.77] (tnt-1-141.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.77]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0666Vfn022596; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:06:36 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040105211542.17228.qmail@web12901.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040105211542.17228.qmail@web12901.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:57:22 -0800 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bocksten (was Question on fur usage) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 4:15 PM -0500 1/5/04, Kathy Page wrote: >Heather wrote: > >>Pictorial evidence suggests that the style of separate-leg hose >>found in >this outfit are normally worn with linen braies >>underneath that are long >enough to overlap with the hose >>Similarly, pictorial evidence >suggests an undertunic of a roughly >>similar cut to the woolen one. > >I'm slowly working my way through Nockert's book on the topic with >the help of a Swedish friend, I had pretty much assumed even before >this that linens would not have survived. The undertunic design I >had planned on was very very simple, using the _don't cut it if it's >not necessary_ philosophy. I had started basing it on the Viborg >shirt, but I am waiting to slowly It's a little hard to know how the Viborg shirt fits in with the flow of styles -- whether it's a peculiarly Scandinavian style with long usage, or the tail end of an older style on its way out, or something even more isolated. If you accept Nockert's dating of the Bocksten man, there's three centuries between the two, which is a bit of a gap for that era. (If it were three centuries on the other side of the Viborg date, I might have fewer worries ... although I might also be wrong.) >wade my way through the rest of what the book has to say before I >dig much deeper. (Mostly it's plain ol curiosity, I have my doubts >that there is much more than what has already been translated >available in there.) The Skjoldehamn under tunic is a thought as >well, although the collar seems incongruent to use under the >Bocksten kjortel. Is there pictorial evidence either way suggesting >this cominbation was used at all? Do you know of where I can find >artwork that is relevant to Sweden during this period? I don't know much about the Skjoldehamn garments. The only two tunic-like garments from the site that I have any information on are wool, so I'm not familiar with any arguments for one or the other being an undertunic. I know there are a good number of manuscript illustrations from Sweden and elsewhere in Scandinavia around the 13-14th c., but it can be a bit of work to track them down, since most popular publications seem to think that Scandiavian history ends after the Vikings. I don't know that they're going to give you much detail on undergarments unless you're lucky enough to catch people in a state of undress. I'm not very good on specific sources for Sweden. My favorite source for Denmark in this era is an extensive series of books on church wall-paintings, which I'm fond of because they strike me as being a little more reliably vernacular in style, which one can't always depend on with manuscripts. But there's more material out there than you might think. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose (you may now call me Doctor) Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 01:07:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0667ZA2017653 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 01:07:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0666w4S029950; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:06:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0666wqq029530; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:06:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0666eqq029373 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:06:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0666cPI022677 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.77] (tnt-1-141.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.77]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0666Vfn022596; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:06:36 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040105211542.17228.qmail@web12901.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040105211542.17228.qmail@web12901.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:57:22 -0800 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bocksten (was Question on fur usage) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 4:15 PM -0500 1/5/04, Kathy Page wrote: >Heather wrote: > >>Pictorial evidence suggests that the style of separate-leg hose >>found in >this outfit are normally worn with linen braies >>underneath that are long >enough to overlap with the hose >>Similarly, pictorial evidence >suggests an undertunic of a roughly >>similar cut to the woolen one. > >I'm slowly working my way through Nockert's book on the topic with >the help of a Swedish friend, I had pretty much assumed even before >this that linens would not have survived. The undertunic design I >had planned on was very very simple, using the _don't cut it if it's >not necessary_ philosophy. I had started basing it on the Viborg >shirt, but I am waiting to slowly It's a little hard to know how the Viborg shirt fits in with the flow of styles -- whether it's a peculiarly Scandinavian style with long usage, or the tail end of an older style on its way out, or something even more isolated. If you accept Nockert's dating of the Bocksten man, there's three centuries between the two, which is a bit of a gap for that era. (If it were three centuries on the other side of the Viborg date, I might have fewer worries ... although I might also be wrong.) >wade my way through the rest of what the book has to say before I >dig much deeper. (Mostly it's plain ol curiosity, I have my doubts >that there is much more than what has already been translated >available in there.) The Skjoldehamn under tunic is a thought as >well, although the collar seems incongruent to use under the >Bocksten kjortel. Is there pictorial evidence either way suggesting >this cominbation was used at all? Do you know of where I can find >artwork that is relevant to Sweden during this period? I don't know much about the Skjoldehamn garments. The only two tunic-like garments from the site that I have any information on are wool, so I'm not familiar with any arguments for one or the other being an undertunic. I know there are a good number of manuscript illustrations from Sweden and elsewhere in Scandinavia around the 13-14th c., but it can be a bit of work to track them down, since most popular publications seem to think that Scandiavian history ends after the Vikings. I don't know that they're going to give you much detail on undergarments unless you're lucky enough to catch people in a state of undress. I'm not very good on specific sources for Sweden. My favorite source for Denmark in this era is an extensive series of books on church wall-paintings, which I'm fond of because they strike me as being a little more reliably vernacular in style, which one can't always depend on with manuscripts. But there's more material out there than you might think. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose (you may now call me Doctor) Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 01:35:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i066ZrA2017809 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 01:35:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i066ZH4S001841; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:35:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i066ZFqq041530; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:35:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i066ZEqq041487 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:35:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HR2006K22ANFB@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:35:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:26:35 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Green Duck Designs... In-reply-to: <3FF94ADF.13595.369E697F@localhost> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040105222001.01df4d28@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <4.3.1.2.20040102020945.05842470@mail.frys.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:30 AM 1/5/2004 -0800, you wrote: >I really miss stores like theirs at events. I always looked forward >to seeing what new costume/history sources they had been able to >ferret out for us to expand our libraries and our knowledge base. >There are still some out there, but they don't have the same name >value. At least we still have Pastiche! > >Kat Hi Kat and all, I am so sorry to hear this. Another fine vendor/crafter out of the faire circuit that I loved. I bought my beloved QEWU from them because I couldn't find it anywhere in my city, or any other bookstore at the time (before Amazon.com). They will be missed, and sadly I don't see anyone else doing as well a job as they for books and such costume items that they carried at faire. I am beginning to think small faires should rename themselves as Indian caravans, from all the cheap Indian/Asian made goods most of the vendors are now selling, from weapons, to the brightly colored "stuff" that so many resale. I miss the good craftspeople and the vendors like Green Duck and Das Eidelweiss that sold high quality goods, and/or lots of books. But that is a rant for another list. Oh, what is Pastiche? Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 02:09:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0679cA2024990 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 02:09:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i067924S003965; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 00:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0678wqq054448; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 00:08:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12908.mail.yahoo.com (web12908.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0678uqq054432 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 00:08:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040106070856.90523.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.48.41.31] by web12908.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 02:08:56 EST Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 02:08:56 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Bocksten (was Question on fur usage) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc wrote: This isn't really for public consumption yet (clearly it's about half done) but if there's anything helpful here: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/trousers/breechesindex.htm Yes it is. Very much! Kathy --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 05:53:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06AroA2011970 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 05:53:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Apo4S013429; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 03:51:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Apgqq034530; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 03:51:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [64.28.25.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Apdqr034502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 03:51:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ingridgs@techarea.net) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [127.0.0.1]) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i06AkW37004858 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:46:32 +0100 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id i06AkWsZ004854 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:46:32 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: decna.com: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:46:32 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bocksten (was Question on fur usage) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 5 Jan 2004, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > I know there are a good number of manuscript illustrations from > Sweden and elsewhere in Scandinavia around the 13-14th c., Another nifty source, although Norwegian, are the medieval altar frontals, some wf which are published in this book: http://museum.uib.no/bm/publikasjoner/frontalene.html My copy of the book's at home and I'm at work so I can't check how many frontals are represented, but these are great stuff (although the picture quality isn't perfect). And all the text about them is given in both Norwegian and English, so you don't miss out if you don't read Norwegian. The text doesn't deal with clothing specifically, but some of these frontals are absolutely wonderful. :)They ship internationally, but their order form is only in Norwegian: http://museum.uib.no/bm/publikasjoner/bestilling.html . It costs NOK 200, which is about US$30 right now. I haven't looked that much at Swedish sources, but I do recall Eva Andersson (who is working on her doctoral thesis on Swedish and Norwegian medieval clothing from wills) saying at a lecture last summer that there seems to be some small difference between clothing in art from the two countries. From what I can recall apparently the Swedish clothing showed a bit less continental influence, for example males were much more rarely shown wearing the "kveiv"/coif. But the general look of the clothes are much the same in both countries, at least from what I've seen. You may also be interested in looking at Eva's article for NESAT spring 2002 (apparently it's not been printed so she webbed it) http://w1.311.comhem.se/~u31138198/writtentraces.html . In it she mainly deals with sources and methods, but there's a bit of interesting info on Swedish and Norwegian clothing as well. :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 06:25:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06BPOA2012177 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:25:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06BIX4S014344; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 04:18:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06BIUqq043511; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 04:18:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta1-svc.business.ntl.com (mta1-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06BISqq043501 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 04:18:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@agesofelegance.co.uk) Received: from Imedia5043 ([81.101.69.114]) by mta1-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20040106111827.NBS281.mta1-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:18:27 +0000 Message-ID: <008401c3d446$c9481710$72456551@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401052156.i05Lupla006991@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:18:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I make for all periods so may be able to help depending on deadline time Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns > > Thanks Robin & Melanie for the 75 years list info. That sounds like it > will be helpful. > > Teena, it's good to know about the patterns being complicated. Are there > any alternatives out there, or are they the best available? > > My friends are Americans living in England, they were in Markland 20 years > ago, and they know of the SCA. I'm not sure what group they're considering. > Due to time constraints, I think she was interested in finding someone to make > the garb for them. I thought someone who did that period might be worthwhile, > as an alternative to having a modern-day seamstress work with a complicated > pattern. > > Any 1290 costumers out there in England? > -Carol > > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 06:56:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06BuUA2012222 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:56:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Bnf4S015298; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 04:49:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Bneqq053981; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 04:49:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Bncqr053970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 04:49:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i06BoKKY021797 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:50:20 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i06BoKP6021795 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:50:20 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Green Duck Designs... Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:50:19 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <4.3.1.2.20040102020945.05842470@mail.frys.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040105222001.01df4d28@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040105222001.01df4d28@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401060650.19857.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 06 January 2004 01:26 am, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 11:30 AM 1/5/2004 -0800, you wrote: [snip] > Oh, what is Pastiche? A book store in Oregon, I believe, that often has rare costume books; I've dealt with them by phone and email several times. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 08:31:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06DVWA2012425 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:31:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06DUu4S021302; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:30:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06DUrqq091020; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:30:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06DUpqq090967 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:30:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i06DX8A21248.; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:33:08 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:31:20 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:27:56 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Dr Maturin's banyan, was So, what'd ya get? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Costume supervisor Jim Tyson is quoted as saying "The banyan, an Indian fabric, is one of his (Maturin's) eccentricities. It's like him saying "This is my bush coat"." The caption to a photograph showing the banyan says that they were "commonly worn by people who had travelled widely". That's all. I'd always thought a banyan was like a dressing gown (robe). Perhaps they made Stephen's shorter than usual so it was easier to walk about in. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 08:51:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06Dp4A2012482 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:51:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06DoN4S022616; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:50:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06DoNqq098459; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:50:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Do2qq098218 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:50:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i06DqMA22787.; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:52:22 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:50:33 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:47:05 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] So, What'd ya get? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 0007163983 (0007157711 paperback) >>> kayta@frys.com 06/01/04 02:51:10 >>> >Nothing directly costume-related, but I did spend some Christmas money >on the book of the film "Master and Commander", which includes >fascinating detail about the costumes, such as the trouble they took to >find the right fabrics (from all over the world), and how they made them >look well-used. What's the ISBN on that? The only books I have from that set are the 20 volumes of story, the bio of the author, the book of the places mentioned, and the cookbook. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 09:07:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06E7FA2012571 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:07:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06E6d4S023425; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:06:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06E6Zqq005307; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:06:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06E6Yqq005297 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:06:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i06E6X1r024408 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:06:33 -0500 Message-ID: <00c201c3d45e$4a654130$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dr Maturin's banyan, was So, what'd ya get? Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:06:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, the banyan was a long dressing gown. But it is my understanding that it was a very popular thing to be worn by gentlemen when at home regardless of how much they had traveled. Or maybe it started that way and then became the fashion... like khaki pants today. Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:27 AM Subject: [h-cost] Dr Maturin's banyan, was So, what'd ya get? > Costume supervisor Jim Tyson is quoted as saying "The banyan, an Indian > fabric, is one of his (Maturin's) eccentricities. It's like him saying > "This is my bush coat"." The caption to a photograph showing the banyan > says that they were "commonly worn by people who had travelled widely". > That's all. > > I'd always thought a banyan was like a dressing gown (robe). Perhaps > they made Stephen's shorter than usual so it was easier to walk about > in. > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 09:35:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06EZkA2012621 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:35:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06EZ94S025406; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06EZ7qq017622; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:35:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06EZ6qq017552 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:35:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 08:35:01 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 08:34:50 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: plaited braid stitch X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. The means of creating the plaited braid stitch is illustrated in the magazine "Fine Lines", a publication of the Historic Needlwork Guild, Inc. PO Box 8928 New Castle PA 16107 Dont remember the issue (the last one, I think) Contact is hngoffice@aol.com and website at www.historicneedlework.com Good Luck, Mike T. **************************************** Actually, it was in the last two issues. A very nicely illustrated how-to by Leon Conrad. He has studied this stitch very carefully and came up with this new way of tackling it and explains some of this on his website: http://www.leonconraddesigns.freeserve.co.uk/pbs.htm "Fine Lines" is also availabe from Wyndham Needleworks: http://www.wyndhamneedleworks.com/ Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 10:12:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06FCfA2012706 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:12:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06FC04S027909; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06FBwqq035222; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:11:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40112.mail.yahoo.com (web40112.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i06FBuqq035128 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:11:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040106151151.4663.qmail@web40112.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.28.136] by web40112.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 07:11:51 PST Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:11:51 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] period patterns early tudor womens gowns? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone ever tried that pattern? Or perhaps have a better choice? I wanted to wait for E-lady but am getting down to the wire time-wise. I am sick to death of drafting. Any help is; as always, greatly appreciated Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 10:47:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06FljA2012826 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:47:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Fl54S001087; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:47:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Fl0qq054958; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:47:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Fktqq054902 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:46:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i06FksAs003014 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:46:54 -0500 Message-ID: <006201c3d46c$4f16b2f0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040106151151.4663.qmail@web40112.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] period patterns early tudor womens gowns? Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:46:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am getting ready to try it but Noelle (Belle of the Bay - is she on this list?) has and said some nice things about it. Apparently they got the neckline perfect. Are you on the garb4sale yahoo list? She recently posted some pictures in her folder there of what she has so far of this gown. Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "me" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: [h-cost] period patterns early tudor womens gowns? > Has anyone ever tried that pattern? Or perhaps have a better choice? I wanted to wait for E-lady but am getting down to the wire time-wise. I am sick to death of drafting. > Any help is; as always, greatly appreciated Angelique > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 11:22:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06GMBA2012915 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:22:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06GLY4S004629; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:21:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06GLUqq077212; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:21:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06GLSqq077143 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:21:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20040106162122014006cln0e>; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:21:22 +0000 Message-ID: <3FFAE08C.6060504@fenris.net> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 08:21:32 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns References: <200401052156.i05Lupla006991@jefferson.patriot.net> <03ab01c3d406$90f2cf30$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> In-Reply-To: <03ab01c3d406$90f2cf30$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you are at the top end of the size range, remember to double check the diameter of the upper arm. I didn't, and the sleeve is almost uncomfortably snug. I liked the patterns, I just didn't remember to check *all* the measurments. Which I ought to do. :) liz young Teena Paradise wrote: >Coincidentally, I am making up the Fleur de Lyse's Romanesque men and >women's patterns right now. The instructions are a bit vague... and >everything is in french with a translation. But it is a simple construction >so it isn't a biggie. I haven't finished yet... only the men's bliaut is >done (overtunic). But it looks good so far. > >Teena >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 9:34 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns > > > > >>> Teena, it's good to know about the patterns being complicated. Are >>> >>> >>there >> >> >>>any alternatives out there, or are they the best available? >>> >>> >>There's la Fleur de Lyse, but they're in Canada. >>http://www3.sympatico.ca/gousse-matte/fdl/Patterns.html#MAR I've never >> >> >used > > >>them, but they're supposed to be good. >>_______________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 11:31:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06GVGA2012937 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:31:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06GUa4S005765; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:30:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06GUZqq083504; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:30:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06GUXqq083462 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:30:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.187] (pm5-187.eos.net [205.133.149.187]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06GUFDG002675 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:30:16 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:31:06 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401041902.i04J21qr056469@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] folkwear book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had never heard of the Folkwear book until now. I checked the web site and they only have a picture of the cover. Is it good? Would those of you who have it recommend it? If you've seen it and haven't bought it, why not? Thanks -- Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 11:52:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06GqhA2012985 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:52:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Gq64S008179; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:52:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Gq3qq099498; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:52:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i06Gq2qq099481 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:52:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040106165201.50995.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 08:52:01 PST Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:52:01 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] folkwear book To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd reccommend it. I've found it very useful on ethnic costumne. Albra Gail & Scott Finke wrote: I had never heard of the Folkwear book until now. I checked the web site and they only have a picture of the cover. Is it good? Would those of you who have it recommend it? If you've seen it and haven't bought it, why not? Thanks -- Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 12:09:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06H98A2013031 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:09:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06H8V4S009903; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:08:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06H8Rqq012707; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:08:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out008.verizon.net (out008pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06H8Oqq012663 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:08:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.83.120.31]) by out008.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040106170823.MIUY19191.out008.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:08:23 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dr Maturin's banyan, was So, what'd ya get? Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:08:16 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <00c201c3d45e$4a654130$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out008.verizon.net from [162.83.120.31] at Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:08:21 -0600 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A few years ago I attended a conference on early American science (18th and early 19th century). One of the sessions was on the depiction of science in art. It showed that a surprising number of "thinkers" in the period choose to have their portraits made while wearing banyans. The speaker suggested that this showed that the wearer was free to think on loftier things, not being bothered by lifes formalities or difficulties. While I do not know if any of that is true, the fact that these natural philosophers choose to be represented at their ease most certainly is. I suspect that the movie's costumer looked at several paintings of travellers (many of whom like Maturin happen to by naturalists and botanists) and made an assumption that was correct but for the wrong reason. I was impressed that Maturin was in the banyan, but I thought they were showing his Scientific leanings rather than his wandering ones. (Besides, untill joining with Aubrey, Maturin was not exactly a traveller though he was raised in two countries). Ron Carnegie > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Teena Paradise > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 9:07 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dr Maturin's banyan, was So, what'd ya get? > > > Yes, the banyan was a long dressing gown. But it is my > understanding that it > was a very popular thing to be worn by gentlemen when at home > regardless of > how much they had traveled. Or maybe it started that way and then > became the > fashion... like khaki pants today. > > Teena > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 12:17:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06HH6A2013050 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:17:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06HEt5q010642; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:16:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06GuJqq003030; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:56:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06GuHqq002944 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:56:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.54.1fef4d59 (16484) for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:56:11 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <54.1fef4d59.2d2c42aa@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:56:10 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] period patterns early tudor womens gowns? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teena: Which pattern is this? Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 13:03:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06I3hA2013197 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:03:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06I2u4S015873; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:02:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06I2qqq052518; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:02:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06I1oqq051593 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:01:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i06I1n1r003024 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:01:49 -0500 Message-ID: <00c701c3d47f$2823dd40$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401052156.i05Lupla006991@jefferson.patriot.net> <03ab01c3d406$90f2cf30$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> <3FFAE08C.6060504@fenris.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:01:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I noticed that on the chemise. The wrist almost couldn't fit over my hand with the medium/large size. Luckily, I made a muslin and noticed. ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Young" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns > If you are at the top end of the size range, remember to double check > the diameter of the upper arm. I didn't, and the sleeve is almost > uncomfortably snug. > I liked the patterns, I just didn't remember to check *all* the > measurments. Which I ought to do. :) > > liz young > > Teena Paradise wrote: > > >Coincidentally, I am making up the Fleur de Lyse's Romanesque men and > >women's patterns right now. The instructions are a bit vague... and > >everything is in french with a translation. But it is a simple construction > >so it isn't a biggie. I haven't finished yet... only the men's bliaut is > >done (overtunic). But it looks good so far. > > > >Teena > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" > >To: "Historical Costume" > >Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 9:34 PM > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1290 patterns > > > > > > > > > >>> Teena, it's good to know about the patterns being complicated. Are > >>> > >>> > >>there > >> > >> > >>>any alternatives out there, or are they the best available? > >>> > >>> > >>There's la Fleur de Lyse, but they're in Canada. > >>http://www3.sympatico.ca/gousse-matte/fdl/Patterns.html#MAR I've never > >> > >> > >used > > > > > >>them, but they're supposed to be good. > >>_______________________________________________ > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 13:05:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06I5iA2013211 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:05:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06I564S016118; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:05:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06I55qq054302; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:05:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06I52qq054260 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:05:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i06I51WJ000367 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:05:01 -0500 Message-ID: <00d601c3d47f$9a8b4760$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <54.1fef4d59.2d2c42aa@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] period patterns early tudor womens gowns? Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:05:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Period Patterns Early Tudor Women's Pattern ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] period patterns early tudor womens gowns? > Teena: > > Which pattern is this? > > Laura > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 13:12:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06IC1A2013227 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:12:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06IBO4S016919; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:11:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06IBOqq058761; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:11:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf13.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf13.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.213]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06IBMqq058696 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:11:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from muirgheal@charter.net) Received: from dewshine (cpe-24-196-247-126.spa.sc.charter.com [24.196.247.126]) by mxsf13.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.10/8.12.8) with SMTP id i06IAqmO041544 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:10:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from muirgheal@charter.net) Message-ID: <004201c3d47f$aaaceae0$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> From: "Manly Summerfield" To: "Historical Costume" References: <54.1fef4d59.2d2c42aa@aol.com> <00d601c3d47f$9a8b4760$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] period patterns early tudor womens gowns? Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:05:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To be a slightly more specific, its Period Patterns no 51: Early Tudor Womens Gowns, c. 1490-1535 Muirgheal who is currently struggling with 30 lbs of black velvet thats a half assembled View II (Elizabeth of York) . .and 12th night is Saturdy. > The Period Patterns Early Tudor Women's Pattern > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 11:56 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] period patterns early tudor womens gowns? > > > > Teena: > > > > Which pattern is this? > > > > Laura > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 14:18:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06JIDA2013423 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:18:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JHY4S024904; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:17:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JHUqq007398; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:17:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JHMqq007282 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:17:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip45.207-173-164.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.164.45]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7F096AC94 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:17:19 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:17:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Green Duck Designs... Message-ID: <3FFA9943.28953.3BB8A129@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <200401060650.19857.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040105222001.01df4d28@64.87.54.245> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Oh, what is Pastiche? > > A book store in Oregon, I believe, that often has rare costume books; > I've dealt with them by phone and email several times. They also travel to trade shows and some SCA events. (They were at Great Western War, for example, but are more likely to be seen in Washington and Oregon.) Asha told me that one of the reasons why she just bought a new large house is that Pastiche had gotten too big for Foggy's basement. ;) They can do booksearches and Asha sometimes finds some pretty spectacular things when she travels (especially when she goes out of the US). Primarily they sell used books but occasionally will sell new ones like Drea's or Nancy Spies'. They carry not just costuming books but textiles books, cook books, history books, and just about any craft you can think of. I usually make the sign warding off the evil eye when Asha calls out "hey, Kat. I think I have something that you might be interested in." She's just plain evil! They also sell fabric (mostly natural fibre and fancy brocades) and trim, as well as assorted other items like beads, notions, buttons and the like. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 14:22:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06JMVA2013430 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:22:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JM34S025329; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:22:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JM0qq010435; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:22:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JLtqq010325 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:21:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 500918 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:21:36 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:21:36 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Green Duck Designs... From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3FFA9943.28953.3BB8A129@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How do you contact Asha at Pastiche? I don't do SCA events so I doubt I'd see her at one. Thanks, LynnD On 1/6/04 11:17 AM, "kat@grendal.rain.com" wrote: >>> Oh, what is Pastiche? >> >> A book store in Oregon, I believe, that often has rare costume books; >> I've dealt with them by phone and email several times. > > They also travel to trade shows and some SCA events. (They were at > Great Western War, for example, but are more likely to be seen in > Washington and Oregon.) > > Asha told me that one of the reasons why she just bought a new large > house is that Pastiche had gotten too big for Foggy's basement. ;) > > They can do booksearches and Asha sometimes finds some pretty > spectacular things when she travels (especially when she goes out of > the US). Primarily they sell used books but occasionally will sell > new ones like Drea's or Nancy Spies'. They carry not just costuming > books but textiles books, cook books, history books, and just about > any craft you can think of. I usually make the sign warding off the > evil eye when Asha calls out "hey, Kat. I think I have something that > you might be interested in." She's just plain evil! > > They also sell fabric (mostly natural fibre and fancy brocades) and > trim, as well as assorted other items like beads, notions, buttons > and the like. > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 14:24:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06JOtA2013436 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:24:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JOE4S025571; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:24:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JOEqq011936; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:24:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JOCqq011858 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:24:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.11d.29f596bd (4459) for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:24:01 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <11d.29f596bd.2d2c6551@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:24:01 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dr Maturin's banyan, was So, what'd ya get? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/6/2004 8:31:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: I'd always thought a banyan was like a dressing gown (robe). Perhaps they made Stephen's shorter than usual so it was easier to walk about in. As I said, I have seen one pictoral example of a short one. There is an illustration in the Musee Carnavalet that shows a variety of people buying milk from a milkmaid, circa 1810. One man is wearing a brightly printed, but short, coat. Other examples of banyans I've seen are also long--almost ankle-length. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 14:28:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06JSgA2013445 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:28:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JS34S026125; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JS3qq014879; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:28:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JS1qq014780 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:28:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.1d0.173b9e1e (4459) for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:27:45 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1d0.173b9e1e.2d2c6631@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:27:45 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Shawl X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A colleague brought in an item called a shawl, that we think dates from the late 19th century. But it is HUGE--118" x 58". It is a lightweight twill weave wool plaid in green, black, violet, red, and white, and has a 3" fringe. It is most likely from Pennsylvania. Does anyone know anything about these and how they would have been worn? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 14:36:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06Ja3A2013528 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:36:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JZR4S026910; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:35:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JZQqq020458; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:35:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f42.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JZNqq020376 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:35:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:35:17 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.95 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 19:35:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.95] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:35:17 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2004 19:35:17.0793 (UTC) FILETIME=[36E40910:01C3D48C] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Question on fur usage (12-14th cen, Tudor, X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Heather Rose Jones >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question on fur usage (12-14th cen, Tudor, > >I'm unfamiliar with this one. Do you have a source available? (Must > >learn more...) >That would be: >Crowfoot, Elisabeth Grace. 1977. "The Clothing of a >Fourteenth-Century Nubian Bishop" in Studies in Textile History, ed. >Veronika Gervers. Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto. >A nice detailed descriptive article. The surviving outfit is >essentially complete, having taken the hot/dry route to survival. Coolness, thank you. Now off to annoy my ILL librarian -- wait, I *am* my ILL librarian... :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed providers now. https://broadband.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 14:48:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06Jm9A2013561 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:48:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JlV4S028305; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:47:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JlUqq030013; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:47:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i06JlRqq029933 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:47:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCt3/sg/giIdf5Tk+msHuDqJpcZ288SZExg==">; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:47:17 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JJ82NDX3; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:47:17 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:44:46 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shawl Message-ID: <20040106.134447.-588561.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,8-30 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know if this applies to your shawl, but I have heard that some of the larger sizes are actually 'piano shawls' and not intended for people to wear. They would have been decoratively draped across the baby grand in the music room for added color. I believe they were popular in the 1920's. Once again, don't know if your shawl is one of these, or how accurate my information was, but it's something to be aware of when attempting to determine what an item was used for. Karen On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:27:45 EST AnnBWass@aol.com writes: > A colleague brought in an item called a shawl, that we think dates > from the > late 19th century. But it is HUGE--118" x 58". It is a lightweight > twill > weave wool plaid in green, black, violet, red, and white, and has a > 3" fringe. > It is most likely from Pennsylvania. Does anyone know anything > about these and > how they would have been worn? > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 14:57:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06Jv9A2013583 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:57:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JuR4S029157; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:56:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JuPqq036476; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:56:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JuNqq036399 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:56:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 501077 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:56:18 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:56:18 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shawl From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1d0.173b9e1e.2d2c6631@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Something I can really answer! There were several types of shawl in the late 19th Century. One style was a 58" square. It was folded diagonally and wrapped around the body. For colder weather, the 118"x58" shawl was folded in half to make the 58" square and then folded into the triangle and used. Evidently, Abraham Lincoln suffered from the cold and had one (or more) of these huge shawls. LynnD On 1/6/04 11:27 AM, "AnnBWass@aol.com" wrote: > A colleague brought in an item called a shawl, that we think dates from the > late 19th century. But it is HUGE--118" x 58". It is a lightweight twill > weave wool plaid in green, black, violet, red, and white, and has a 3" > fringe. > It is most likely from Pennsylvania. Does anyone know anything about these > and > how they would have been worn? > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 14:58:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06JweA2013587 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:58:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Jw34S029370; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Jw3qq037620; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:58:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Jw1qq037533 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:58:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E666242615 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:07:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FFB135F.2000505@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:58:23 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] folkwear book References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > I had never heard of the Folkwear book until now. I checked the web site and > they only have a picture of the cover. Is it good? Would those of you who > have it recommend it? If you've seen it and haven't bought it, why not? > Thanks -- I looked at several online reviews that had pictures and comments by other costumers/ sewers. I passed on it this year, it didn't seem like it offered "enough" for my current interests. It looked like it was a big picture book of embellishment, which isn't a focus of mine at the moment. For the $30 cover price I could think of several other titles I'd rather have. However, I'm finding it now in the $11-14 range and I might just pick it up. A friend of mine expressed interest in the Tibetan Panel Coat, and that's one of the included patterns. I could get the book, with that, a couple other patterns they include, and all the pretty pictures for the price of the retail pattern. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 15:02:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06K2bA2013599 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:02:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JxK4S029542; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:59:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JxJqq038597; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:59:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav58.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06JxHqq038487 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:59:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:59:12 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav58.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 19:59:11 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:59:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2004 19:59:12.0207 (UTC) FILETIME=[8DDE3DF0:01C3D48F] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Help identifying an item X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i06K2bA2013599 Status: RO I have what I *thought* was lace making things. I'll take a pic when I get the digital camera fixed (my web cam takes pics but they are awful) it has a set of what look like mini clothespins less than 2 inches long a small t shaped item and a card (like a floss card) with some heavy string on it. All of this is packed into a small silk purse. All the items are IMO bakelite. Anyone have any thoughts? Bice ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb For the month of January list people get $2 off shipping Check out the three auctions with weaving books Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 15:05:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06K5LA2013615 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:05:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06K4e4S029984; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:04:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06K4dqq042587; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:04:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06K4bqq042511 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:04:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.1c4.13a68bc4 (4459) for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:04:27 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1c4.13a68bc4.2d2c6ecb@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:04:27 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shawl To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/6/2004 2:58:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, LDownward@chori.org writes: Something I can really answer! There were several types of shawl in the late 19th Century. One style was a 58" square. It was folded diagonally and wrapped around the body. For colder weather, the 118"x58" shawl was folded in half to make the 58" square and then folded into the triangle and used. Evidently, Abraham Lincoln suffered from the cold and had one (or more) of these huge shawls. Thanks. That does make sense. The fabric is very lightweight. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 15:23:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06KNmA2013710 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:23:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KN84S002201; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:23:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KN3qq057007; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:23:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KMvqq056851 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:22:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cbucheger@paclp.com) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id A91E140286; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 14:22:54 -0600 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1073420574368; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:22:54 -0600 Message-ID: <003501c3d491$c177b4a0$1d64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:14:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Museum Visit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This pass week I took my granddaughter and daughter to a local museum so the five year old could go to the children's activities this museum advertised. We also toured the main build because Hazel (the five year old) wanted to look at "art". She's been to other museums and really enjoyed them. This museum however was less "art" orientated, and had more Texas history items on display and a lot of interactive things that she could touch and do, include various types of saddles to sit upon and so on. What is relevant to this list is the textile section. Most of the garments were from the mid to late 1800's, about twenty or thirty selections. While the garments were behind a plexi-glass half wall, they were very close to the adult viewer. Also many of the garments were on an island display in the room so you could see from and back of the garments. Instead of just listing the date of the garment they explained why something was dated to 1840, regarding the bustle, the drop of the shoulders and so on. What I really liked was a section that had a corset with a small interactive display with a piece of "raw" baleen, then strips of the baleen, steel boning, wrapped quills and modern plastic boning that you could touch. The second favorite was the gown that they showed a picture of it, then the display was of the gown turned inside out, so you could see the hand stitching, the placement of boning and so on. It's not my period was a really cool display, I really enjoyed it and thought you all would like to know about it. If you're ever in San Antonio TX, stop by the Witte Art Museum, it is small but worth your while. Cyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 15:39:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06KdvA2013756 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:39:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KcZ4S004045; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:38:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KcYqq068491; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:38:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KcVqq068453 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:38:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-46-100.jps.net ([209.165.46.100] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Adxy7-0006bQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 12:38:28 -0800 Message-ID: <001801c3d496$305278c0$642ea5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003501c3d491$c177b4a0$1d64a8c0@algx> Subject: corset boning - Re: [h-cost] Museum Visit Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:46:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cyn Bucheger wrote: > What I really liked was a section that had a corset with a small interactive > display with a piece of "raw" baleen, then strips of the baleen, steel > boning, wrapped quills and modern plastic boning that you could touch. Wrapped quills how interesting! What were they like and what did they wrap them with. What sort of quills? Lisa Sinervo (working on my own little collection for people to fiddle with) www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 15:40:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06KerA2013760 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:40:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Kdm4S004210; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:39:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Kdmqq069392; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:39:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Kdjqq069357 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:39:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i06Kg4A19800.; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:42:04 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:40:16 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:36:59 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help identifying an item Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As a child, I was once given a little box containing some miniature clothespegs and a washing line made of elastic. They were given to me as a toy but I think they were really intended for a woman to dry her nylon stockings. Could your set be something similar? I'm not sure what you mean by a floss card, but heavy string would have made a better line than that flimsy elastic. >>> wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com 06/01/04 19:59:14 >>> I have what I *thought* was lace making things. I'll take a pic when I get the digital camera fixed (my web cam takes pics but they are awful) it has a set of what look like mini clothespins less than 2 inches long a small t shaped item and a card (like a floss card) with some heavy string on it. All of this is packed into a small silk purse. All the items are IMO bakelite. Anyone have any thoughts? Bice ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb For the month of January list people get $2 off shipping Check out the three auctions with weaving books Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 15:42:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06Kg3A2013768 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:42:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KfN4S004484; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:41:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KfNqq070698; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:41:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KfIqr070618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:41:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i06KciPp030069 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:38:44 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:38:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FFB1DB6.7040305@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:42:30 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help identifying an item References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bice d'Este wrote: > it has a set of what look like mini clothespins less than 2 > inches long a small t shaped item and a card (like a floss card) with > some heavy string on it. Sounds rather like the lingerie-drying clothesline set that my Mom had; she gave it to me for doll clothes. Pastel spring clothespins. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 15:45:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06KjwA2013774 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:45:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KjH4S005013; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KjGqq073289; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:45:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav34.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KjFqq073217 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:45:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:45:10 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav34.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:45:09 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help identifying an item Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:45:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2004 20:45:10.0005 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9A4D250:01C3D495] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You know that thought DID cross my mind as well so maybe one of the t's are missing? Floss card: what you wrap your floss around when you unravel the skein. They are usually thin white cardboard. ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb For the month of January list people get $2 off shipping Check out the three auctions with weaving books Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: January 06, 2004 3:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help identifying an item > As a child, I was once given a little box containing some miniature > clothespegs and a washing line made of elastic. They were given to me as > a toy but I think they were really intended for a woman to dry her nylon > stockings. Could your set be something similar? I'm not sure what you > mean by a floss card, but heavy string would have made a better line > than that flimsy elastic. > > >>> wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com 06/01/04 19:59:14 >>> > I have what I *thought* was lace making things. I'll take a pic when I > get the digital camera fixed (my web cam takes pics but they are awful) > it has a set of what look like mini clothespins less than 2 inches long > a small t shaped item and a card (like a floss card) with some heavy > string on it. All of this is packed into a small silk purse. All the > items are IMO bakelite. Anyone have any thoughts? > > Bice > > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > For the month of January > list people get $2 off shipping Check > out the three auctions with weaving books > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > ============================= > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email > Security System. For more information on a proactive email security > service working around the clock, around the globe, visit > http://www.messagelabs.com > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 15:46:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06KkUA2013778 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:46:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Kjp4S005103; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:45:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Kjpqq073724; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:45:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav70.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Kjnqq073635 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:45:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:45:43 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav70.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:45:43 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FFB1DB6.7040305@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help identifying an item Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:45:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2004 20:45:43.0800 (UTC) FILETIME=[0DC98780:01C3D496] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yup these are peg style of bakelite. Looks almost like ivory. Any thoughts on value? It'll be an ebay item. ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb For the month of January list people get $2 off shipping Check out the three auctions with weaving books Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 06, 2004 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help identifying an item > Bice d'Este wrote: > > it has a set of what look like mini clothespins less than 2 > > inches long a small t shaped item and a card (like a floss card) with > > some heavy string on it. > > Sounds rather like the lingerie-drying clothesline set that my Mom had; > she gave it to me for doll clothes. Pastel spring clothespins. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 15:51:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06KpEA2013791 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:51:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Koa4S005678; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:50:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KoZqq077286; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:50:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06KoXqq077253 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:50:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cbucheger@paclp.com) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id AF98780286; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 14:50:32 -0600 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1073422231859; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:50:31 -0600 Message-ID: <004301c3d495$9e62da40$1d64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003501c3d491$c177b4a0$1d64a8c0@algx> <001801c3d496$305278c0$642ea5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: corset boning - Re: [h-cost] Museum Visit Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:42:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe they were goose quills, feathers removed and wrapped with thread, though I don't recall if it was a simple wrap around or something more like a buttonhole stitch that covered the quill almost completely. I recall rather regularly spaced wraps which is why I'm leaning toward stitches. Cyn > > Cyn Bucheger wrote: > > > What I really liked was a section that had a corset with a small > interactive > > display with a piece of "raw" baleen, then strips of the baleen, steel > > boning, wrapped quills and modern plastic boning that you could touch. > > Wrapped quills how interesting! What were they like and what did they wrap > them with. What sort of quills? > > Lisa Sinervo (working on my own little collection for people to fiddle with) > www.thrednedlestrete.com > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 16:07:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06L7qA2013859 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:07:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06L7G4S007542; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:07:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06L7Fqq089807; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:07:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06L7Eqq089782 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:07:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i06L7EOT031250 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:07:14 -0500 Message-Id: <200401062107.i06L7EOT031250@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 21:02:36 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: corset boning - Re: [h-cost] Museum Visit From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Was it this list, or a different one - Carol Huff mentioned that she recently got a featherboning attachment for a sewing machine. I know of featherboning as being that nasty plastic stuff you can still get that bends and buckles very easily. Carol explained that the original featherboning was actually made out of feathers, and she was interested in seeing some. Cyn Bucheger said: > I believe they were goose quills, feathers removed and wrapped with thread, > though I don't recall if it was a simple wrap around or something more like > a buttonhole stitch that covered the quill almost completely. I recall > rather regularly spaced wraps which is why I'm leaning toward stitches. > Cyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 16:30:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06LUaA2013937 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:30:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06LTq4S010252; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:29:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06LToqq006924; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:29:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06LTnqq006912 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:29:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-202.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.202]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06LTkSS021649 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:29:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040106130145.058fa600@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:02:29 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] folkwear book In-Reply-To: References: <200401041902.i04J21qr056469@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I had never heard of the Folkwear book until now. I checked the web site and >they only have a picture of the cover. Is it good? Would those of you who >have it recommend it? If you've seen it and haven't bought it, why not? I haven't seen it, but have heard of it. My guess is that Tilke's book contains everything in it plus ;much more. I do have Tilke's book, and use it a lot. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 16:45:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06LjdA2013973 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:45:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Liu4S012339; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:44:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Lisqq019071; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:44:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06Liqqq018959 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:44:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Gia_Gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.116 ([204.127.197.116]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004010621444701500c6lsle>; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 21:44:47 +0000 Received: from [12.231.63.139] by 204.127.197.116; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 21:44:45 +0000 From: Gia_Gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Tilke and folkwear book Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 21:44:45 +0000 Message-Id: <010620042144.14272.15ff@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 27 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: R2lhX0dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tilke's book is wonderful and is my preference for such patterns, rather than folkwear. Although I *also* love Folkwear...but use them more for modern wear than for my historical facsimile clothing. I think I have most of their patterns, but not all (rats!). But then, I a real *nut* and love to make my own patterns for what I wear for historical 'facsimile' wear when I "Play". Gia/Giacinta > > >I had never heard of the Folkwear book until now. I checked the web site and > >they only have a picture of the cover. Is it good? Would those of you who > >have it recommend it? If you've seen it and haven't bought it, why not? > > I haven't seen it, but have heard of it. My guess is that Tilke's book > contains everything in it plus ;much more. I do have Tilke's book, and use > it a lot. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 16:46:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06LkxA2013978 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:46:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06LkT4S012630; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:46:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06LkTqq020453; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:46:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06LkRqq020367 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:46:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 501519 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:46:20 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:46:21 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] folkwear book From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040106130145.058fa600@mail.frys.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This book is really lovely; I spent an hour at a party early last year with someone else pouring over the pictures but not reading the text. It seemed to me that there may have been flat patterns to work with, but it mostly showed a variety of different ways to decorate the clothing - piecework, embroidery, beading, etc., both from traditional and contemporary decorating. I can't even tell you if you can make the clothing from the book or not. I've never seen Tilke's book - not my interest, so I cannot compare the two. The book was an explosion of colors and textiles and that's what I was looking at at the time. I can't tell you if it was a how-to book or a look-what-can-be-and-has-been-done book. LynnD On 1/6/04 1:02 PM, "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" wrote: > >> I had never heard of the Folkwear book until now. I checked the web site and >> they only have a picture of the cover. Is it good? Would those of you who >> have it recommend it? If you've seen it and haven't bought it, why not? > > I haven't seen it, but have heard of it. My guess is that Tilke's book > contains everything in it plus ;much more. I do have Tilke's book, and use > it a lot. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 17:07:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06M76A2014080 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:07:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06M514S014780; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06M4xqq035064; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:04:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from logging (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06M4vqq035022 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:04:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HR3006ES9C6W2@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 14:04:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:57:26 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] folkwear book In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040106135609.024a6ea0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200401041902.i04J21qr056469@net.indra.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:31 AM 1/6/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I had never heard of the Folkwear book until now. I checked the web site and >they only have a picture of the cover. Is it good? Would those of you who >have it recommend it? If you've seen it and haven't bought it, why not? >Thanks -- > >Gail Finke Hi Gail, I just got it for Christmas from a friend. I like the book. I had held off on getting it because I have several of the patterns already, but it is much more than the patterns, it is the history and the embroidery and many photos of the garments as originally worn. The patterns in the book are to be blown up on a copier, usually at 200%, and then used as is. I am not sure what size they are supposed to be for, haven't looked for that yet. So far I am enjoying reading through the book. I would recommend it. And they recently got a paperback version for $20.00, which is what I have. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 18:12:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06NC4A2014248 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 18:12:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06NBO4S022179; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:11:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06NBMqq084253; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:11:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i06NB7qq083992 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:11:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OtPNIBe8WuGTikhwuskJSg4=">; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:10:00 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JJ9D9LDS; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:10:00 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:07:03 -0800 Message-ID: <20040106.150855.160.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-6 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: Cley@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] Pastiche: was Green Duck Designs... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pastiche can be reached at . If the e-mail, doesn't work, drop me a note and I'll send you their phone number. That's where I go to get all that delicious flat silk. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 18:22:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i06NMrA2014265 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 18:22:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06NMB4S023242; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:22:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06NMAqq091880; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:22:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i06NM8qq091803 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:22:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 501819 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:22:03 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:22:02 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pastiche: was Green Duck Designs... From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040106.150855.160.3.Cley@juno.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the info. LynnD On 1/6/04 3:07 PM, "Cynthia J Ley" wrote: > Pastiche can be reached at . > > If the e-mail, doesn't work, drop me a note and I'll send you their phone > number. > > That's where I go to get all that delicious flat silk. > > Arlys > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 19:23:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i070NpA2014418 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:23:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i070Ki4S029364; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:20:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i070KMqq029995; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:20:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i070Jlqq029461 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:20:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shawl Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:19:41 -0800 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D2624@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 13 Thread-Index: AcPUl55estQhYz85Q/qbZPTU6CNjEwAGxG6g From: "Sunny Buchler" To: X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i070Jlqq029461 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are multiple pictures from the 50-70s that show women wearing really large shawls -- triangularly folded (I think) reaching from neck, nearly to the floor, and width-wise covering a fair amount of the hoop. I'm thinking especially of a painting titled something like "you want to go out too, Fifi?" -- a small dog is following the woman out the door. I think it's in _Fashion in Art : The Second Empire and Impressionism_ by Marie Simon. This isn't the only picture that shows it -- but it's the only one that I can guess what book it's in when I'm away from my library. -sunny > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:27:45 EST > From: AnnBWass@aol.com > Subject: [h-cost] Shawl > To: h-costume@indra.com > Message-ID: <1d0.173b9e1e.2d2c6631@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > A colleague brought in an item called a shawl, that we think > dates from the > late 19th century. But it is HUGE--118" x 58". It is a > lightweight twill > weave wool plaid in green, black, violet, red, and white, and > has a 3" fringe. > It is most likely from Pennsylvania. Does anyone know > anything about these and > how they would have been worn? > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 21:51:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i072poA2014885 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 21:51:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i072p14S011237; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i072owqq006293; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:50:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i072ouqq006274 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:50:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-52-056.jps.net ([209.165.52.56] helo=pavilion) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ae3mZ-0004N3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:50:56 -0800 Message-ID: <001001c3d4ca$39bd5ea0$3834a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401062107.i06L7EOT031250@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: corset boning - Re: [h-cost] Museum Visit Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 18:59:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO aaahhhh.....FEATHERBONING!!!! Lightbulb goes *ON* brighter now........you know, sometimes I do regret living in that coal mining town with no TV for too many years! I'll keep my eyes out for more on this now! Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: Re: corset boning - Re: [h-cost] Museum Visit > > Was it this list, or a different one - Carol Huff mentioned that she > recently got a featherboning attachment for a sewing machine. I know of > featherboning as being that nasty plastic stuff you can still get that bends > and buckles very easily. Carol explained that the original featherboning was > actually made out of feathers, and she was interested in seeing some. > > > Cyn Bucheger said: > > I believe they were goose quills, feathers removed and wrapped with thread, > > though I don't recall if it was a simple wrap around or something more like > > a buttonhole stitch that covered the quill almost completely. I recall > > rather regularly spaced wraps which is why I'm leaning toward stitches. > > Cyn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 22:35:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i073ZeA2014968 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 22:35:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i073Z14S014164; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i073Yvqq026263; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:34:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i073Ytqr026249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:34:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i073ZeKY023347 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 22:35:40 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i073ZemG023345 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 22:35:40 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] folkwear book Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 22:35:39 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <3FFB135F.2000505@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <3FFB135F.2000505@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401062235.39822.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 06 January 2004 02:58 pm, Dawn wrote: > Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > I had never heard of the Folkwear book until now. I checked the web site > > and they only have a picture of the cover. Is it good? Would those of you > > who have it recommend it? If you've seen it and haven't bought it, why > > not? Thanks -- > > I looked at several online reviews that had pictures and comments by > other costumers/ sewers. I passed on it this year, it didn't seem like > it offered "enough" for my current interests. It looked like it was a > big picture book of embellishment, which isn't a focus of mine at the > moment. For the $30 cover price I could think of several other titles > I'd rather have. > > However, I'm finding it now in the $11-14 range and I might just pick it > up. A friend of mine expressed interest in the Tibetan Panel Coat, and > that's one of the included patterns. I could get the book, with that, a > couple other patterns they include, and all the pretty pictures for the > price of the retail pattern. Here comes my two cents. At $11-$14, it's more than worth it. I bought it at the new softcover price of $19, and it's still worth that, though I wouldn't have paid much more for it. Whether you would disagree with me would depend on what you wanted the book for. If you like eye candy, there's plenty of it there--plenty of gorgeous full color photos of the projects described. If you like the idea of making clothing with folk motifs, and trying out traditional (if unusual) decorative techinques, buy the book. It teaches you, among other things, some back Seminole patchwork techniques. You should also buy the book if you're interested in the 6 Folkwear patterns they give in the book (I believe the six are the Japanese Kimono, Tibetan panel coat, Polish vest, Syrian dress, Seminole skirt, and....nope, I can't remember the sixth one). The instructions and pattern information the book gives look as though they are good enough to allow me to reproduce the garments described--and I'm not good with making garments from instructions as opposed to patterns. The book is cheaper by far than buying the Folkwear patterns for each of the items in question. If you are primarily interested in the history of folk costume, the book is, IMHO, probably not worth your time. Most of the sources in the bibliography are not historical in nature, and the historical background given in the book is pretty thin. (I don't know enough about folk costume to vouch for or against it's accuracy, but I have my doubts). There are a few interesting black-and-white photos of genuine folk costume from the 19th c., which up the historical information content a tad. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 6 22:44:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i073ihA2014996 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 22:44:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i073i84S014938; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i073i7qq030808; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:44:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40414.mail.yahoo.com (web40414.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i073i4qq030728 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:44:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hanstar88@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040107034359.5395.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.176.127] by web40414.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 19:43:59 PST Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:43:59 -0800 (PST) From: Mary To: h-costume@net.indra.com In-Reply-To: <200401061407.i06E75qs005537@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Christmas and circuit breakers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:31:14 -0600 > From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger > Subject: [h-cost] Re: Christmas and circuit breakers > > Surge protectors have ratings which vary by model and manufacturer; > say > 1100 Joules as an example. That means it can protect up to 1100 > Joules of > spike, cumulative. So, if you have a spike of 200 Joules, the > protector > will absorb it, but its now only rated for 900 Joules. Once the > protector > has absorbed its total of 1100 Joules its a glorified extension > cord. I > would recommend changing it yearly at a minimum and always after > some major > event such as a black out. > > Pierre > Ahhhh... Thanks for the edification. Being a mere programmer, the IT guys gave me the low-tech version. :-) ===== "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 7 00:44:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i075ilA2015199 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:44:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i075i84S023111; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 22:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i075i4qq087561; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 22:44:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i075i3qq087540 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 22:44:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from sdn-ar-007neomahp242.dialsprint.net ([63.178.237.132] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ae6U6-00003k-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 00:44:03 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040106231522.01b3d230@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 23:20:26 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200401061407.i06E75qr005537@net.indra.com> References: <200401061407.i06E75qr005537@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: last word on electrical stuff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And if you really want to protect something, get a UPS (uninterruptible power supply). They come in several power ratings and usually include surge protection as well. They give you power after an outage for a certain length of time so you can shut down your systems normally. Price varies by how much you can power and for how long. If you are in an area where blackouts/brownouts are common, it's well worth it. Sandy >Surge protectors have ratings which vary by model and manufacturer; say >1100 Joules as an example. That means it can protect up to 1100 Joules of >spike, cumulative. So, if you have a spike of 200 Joules, the protector >will absorb it, but its now only rated for 900 Joules. Once the protector >has absorbed its total of 1100 Joules its a glorified extension cord. I >would recommend changing it yearly at a minimum and always after some major >event such as a black out. > >Pierre "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 7 11:23:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i07GNlA2010367 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:23:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07GMu4S029744; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:22:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07GMlqq067222; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:22:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07GMiqq067173 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:22:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.129] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A024F8200BA; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:13:24 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c3d53b$2983dc00$815183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] folkwear book Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:27:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had the Tilke long before I acquired the Parker Folkwear book and early on would have appreciated having the pattern diagrams provided. But because I had only the costume illustrations, was forced to put my brain to work in order to figure out the right shapes to reproduce the garments. Some trial and error, but on the whole, the exercise was educational. I had already been trying to reproduce western historical pictures and illustrations. As the Historical patterns began to immerge during the last twenty years, I was greatly heartened to discover that I had pretty much solved the design problems in the very way that the investigative process had determined they had been originated. So a good book to use as a study tool. The Parker also aadds greatly to the scene with her bringing together the vast area of ethnic ornamentation. I have a number of individual books of ethnic embellishment and she has managed to gather number of styles and craft under one cover. (One could say that it could be a library shelf saver?) But then of course, one would miss out on all the historical notes and nuances that are found when only one culture is being studied. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "h costume" Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] folkwear book > This book is really lovely; I spent an hour at a party early last year with > someone else pouring over the pictures but not reading the text. It seemed > to me that there may have been flat patterns to work with, but it mostly > showed a variety of different ways to decorate the clothing - piecework, > embroidery, beading, etc., both from traditional and contemporary > decorating. I can't even tell you if you can make the clothing from the book > or not. I've never seen Tilke's book - not my interest, so I cannot compare > the two. The book was an explosion of colors and textiles and that's what I > was looking at at the time. I can't tell you if it was a how-to book or a > look-what-can-be-and-has-been-done book. > LynnD > > On 1/6/04 1:02 PM, "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" wrote: > > > > >> I had never heard of the Folkwear book until now. I checked the web site and > >> they only have a picture of the cover. Is it good? Would those of you who > >> have it recommend it? If you've seen it and haven't bought it, why not? > > > > I haven't seen it, but have heard of it. My guess is that Tilke's book > > contains everything in it plus ;much more. I do have Tilke's book, and use > > it a lot. > > > > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > > www.FunStuft.com > > > > //// \\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ))) > > ((( <> )))) > > ) (((((( > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 7 11:55:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i07GtHA2010553 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:55:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07Gse4S003447; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:54:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07GsYqq089581; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:54:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07GsXqq089560 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:54:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lcipt.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.75.61] helo=[209.86.74.211]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AeGwy-0007lS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:54:33 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200401071624.i07GOOqs068425@net.indra.com> References: <200401071624.i07GOOqs068425@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:54:19 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:featherboning X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Yup, that was me. Just got the *instruction book* in the mail! Wahoo! Go Me!!! Will be scanning and duplicating as it is kinda fragile. Interesting as you sew the stuff in under tension, so it curves..... Now to get the attachment to arrive inna mail.... So let me know if ya want copies... Ta Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 7 11:59:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i07GwxA2010609 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:58:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07GwP4S003867; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:58:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07GwPqq092295; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:58:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07GwHqq092188 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:58:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lcipt.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.75.61] helo=[209.86.74.211]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AeH0b-0003RA-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:58:17 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200401071624.i07GOOqs068425@net.indra.com> References: <200401071624.i07GOOqs068425@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:58:04 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: featherboning X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:24 AM -0700 1/7/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >aaahhhh.....FEATHERBONING!!!! Lightbulb goes *ON* brighter now........you >know, sometimes I do regret living in that coal mining town with no TV for >too many years! > >I'll keep my eyes out for more on this now! Hi Just be aware that it is an late invention 1880's.... So great for later stuff, not so great for 18th cent ;-( I'll post more info when I get it scanned. Ta Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 7 12:08:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i07H8KA2010671 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:08:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07H7f4S004906; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:07:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07H7eqq099043; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:07:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mx5.wvu.edu (mx5.wvu.edu [157.182.140.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07H7cqq098958 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:07:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from mxv2.wvu.edu (mxv2.wvu.edu [157.182.140.123]) by mx5.wvu.edu (8.12.9+Sun/8.12.9) with SMTP id i07H7WlC012849 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:07:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu ([157.182.215.110]) by mxv2.wvu.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2004010712073203542 for ; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 12:07:32 -0500 Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 12:07:32 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 12:07:16 -0500 From: "Kathy Hoover" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] folkwear book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathleen, Could you be so kind as to list some of those titles you find useful for the study of ethnic embellishment? Thanks, Kathy Hoover (The other Kathleen - the one just down the road from you) >>> rmitchell@washjeff.edu 01/07/04 11:27AM >>> (snip) So a good book to use as a study tool. The Parker also adds greatly to the scene with her bringing together the vast area of ethnic ornamentation. I have a number of individual books of ethnic embellishment and she has managed to gather number of styles and craft under one cover. (One could say that it could be a library shelf saver?) But then of course, one would miss out on all the historical notes and nuances that are found when only one culture is being studied. Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 7 12:33:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i07HXCA2010736 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:33:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07HWW4S007332; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:32:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07HWUqq016705; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:32:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07HWRqq016608 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:32:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE4C242615 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:42:03 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FFC42CC.40308@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:33:00 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: plaited braid stitch References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Kinsey wrote: Ah ha! I found my other reference. It's also illustrated in issue #116 of Compleat Anachronist -- an issue devoted to blackwork and Elizabethan embroidery. $4.50 from the SCA stock clerk. www.sca.org Dawn > Hi, All. The means of creating the plaited braid stitch is illustrated > in the magazine "Fine Lines", a publication of the Historic Needlwork > Guild, Inc. PO Box 8928 New Castle PA 16107 Dont remember the issue > (the last one, I think) Contact is hngoffice@aol.com and website at > www.historicneedlework.com Good Luck, Mike T. > **************************************** > > Actually, it was in the last two issues. A very nicely illustrated > how-to by Leon Conrad. He has studied this stitch very carefully and > came up with this new way of tackling it and explains some of this on > his website: http://www.leonconraddesigns.freeserve.co.uk/pbs.htm > > "Fine Lines" is also availabe from Wyndham Needleworks: > http://www.wyndhamneedleworks.com/ > > Catherine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 7 14:41:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i07JfYA2011259 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:41:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07Jch4S021924; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:38:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07JcZqq008115; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:38:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07JcVqq008063 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:38:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE07A9870132; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:29:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c3d556$84231020$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] folkwear book Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:43:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here are a few titles that are at hand. I have found a lot of these in Fred Struthers "Books on Cloth. Many are from the tight reading of the Hamilton news sheet of remainders. Espana-Jose Ortiz Echagne Veiled Images-GE Eastwood For Modesty's Sake-Vogelsang-Eastwood Peasant Art in Austria and Hungary-Joseph Lane Co, NY Slovensko-(Vydala Matica Slovenska World Textiles-Gillow and Sentance Fiberart book of Wearable Art Goddess Embroideries of Eastern Europs Art to Wear-Juli Schalfer Dale Traditional Cross stitch-Cargill Art of Kantha-Niaz Zamam Costume and Identity in Ecquador Ethnic dress-Kennett Chales de Russie Palestinian Embroidery-Weir and Shahid-- Kathleen - Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Hoover" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] folkwear book > Kathleen, > Could you be so kind as to list some of those titles you find useful > for the study of ethnic embellishment? > > Thanks, > Kathy Hoover > (The other Kathleen - the one just down the road from you) > > >>> rmitchell@washjeff.edu 01/07/04 11:27AM >>> > (snip) > So a good book to use as a study tool. The Parker also adds greatly to > the > scene with her bringing together the vast area of ethnic ornamentation. > I > have a number of individual books of ethnic embellishment and she has > managed to gather number of styles and craft under one cover. (One > could say > that it could be a library shelf saver?) But then of course, one would > miss > out on all the historical notes and nuances that are found when only > one > culture is being studied. > Kathleen > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 7 16:42:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i07LgpA2011632 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:42:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07LgA4S005810; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:42:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07Lg7qq095454; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:42:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07Lg5qq095420 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:42:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.181] (pm5-181.eos.net [205.133.149.181]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i07Lfunk000601 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:41:57 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:42:45 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401071902.i07J2Yqr082153@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: folkwear book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to everyone who has posted a review of the Folkwear book. I'm definitely intrigued, and will try to see it for myself. I have the Tilke book, so the idea of many lush photos and decorative techniques appeals to me! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 02:06:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0876OA2017778 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 02:06:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0875i4S020673; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:05:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0875Yqq090469; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:05:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0875Wqq090440 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:05:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.119.192.87 with login) by smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2004 07:05:31 -0000 Message-ID: <002601c3d5b5$cdf6db50$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:05:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume Academy in Berkeley, Calif. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Greater Bay Area Costumers Guild has just announced Costume Academy, a one day, multi-workshop event on Sunday, March 14th in Berkeley, Calif.. Basically, there are three time slots with three classes in each -- you take one class per time slot, so a total of three classes in one day. The class topics include pattern drafting and draping, trimming (buttons, embroidery and ribbon flowers), hair pieces and ear prosthetics, Victorian practical and decorative pleating, and an overview on 18th c. quilted petticoats. Should be excesses of fun -- cost is $45 members (inc. ICG members)/$50 non-members. Lots more info, include sign-up info, is available at: http://www.gbacg.org/ca/ca_about.htm I hope to see some of you there! - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 02:41:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i087fnA2007002 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 02:41:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i087fA4S022195; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:41:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i087f8qq005417; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:41:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i087f6qq005401 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:41:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HR500I2YUOGK4@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 23:41:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 23:36:51 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Academy in Berkeley, Calif. In-reply-to: <002601c3d5b5$cdf6db50$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040107233003.01ee8fb0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh? I wanna go, I wanna go!! It is on my first local faire weekend, however, so I will have to pass.. this time. Darnit! Kimiko {grumble, grumble... groan} At 11:05 PM 1/7/2004 -0800, you wrote: >The Greater Bay Area Costumers Guild has just announced Costume Academy, a >one day, multi-workshop event on Sunday, March 14th in Berkeley, Calif.. >Basically, there are three time slots with three classes in each -- you take >one class per time slot, so a total of three classes in one day. > >The class topics include pattern drafting and draping, trimming (buttons, >embroidery and ribbon flowers), hair pieces and ear prosthetics, Victorian >practical and decorative pleating, and an overview on 18th c. quilted >petticoats. > >Should be excesses of fun -- cost is $45 members (inc. ICG members)/$50 >non-members. Lots more info, include sign-up info, is available at: > >http://www.gbacg.org/ca/ca_about.htm > >I hope to see some of you there! > >- Kendra >http://demode.tweedlebop.com Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 03:48:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i088mxA2007121 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 03:48:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i088mM4S026031; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:48:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i088mKqq035743; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:48:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i088mIqq035722 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:48:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-202.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.202]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i088mGHu021645 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:48:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040108003906.05a13690@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 00:39:26 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:featherboning In-Reply-To: References: <200401071624.i07GOOqs068425@net.indra.com> <200401071624.i07GOOqs068425@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >So let me know if ya want copies... Copies - sure. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 05:00:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08A0rA2007782 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 05:00:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i089x84S029458; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 02:59:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i089x5qq063201; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 02:59:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i089x3qq063138 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 02:59:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B40BE7C8 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:58:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FFD2B59.6090602@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 11:05:13 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Butterick 4051 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Some time ago I saw butterick pattern 4051 and I didn't understand why they made a pattern of a dress that looks so horrible in my eyes. Yesterday I saw Gone With the wind for the fhirst time and saw that dress, the dress was made out of old curtains. Well, it certanly looks like it :-) . But is the dress completely fantasy or could it be historical.. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 06:03:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08B3rA2007891 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 06:03:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08B3I4S002900; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 04:03:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08B3Eqq086486; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 04:03:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lion.rbgkew.org.uk (lion.rbgkew.org.uk [193.128.240.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08B3Cqq086477 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 04:03:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from a.wilson@kew.org) Received: from lion.rbgkew.org.uk ([193.128.240.33] helo=rbgkew.org.uk ident=web) by lion.rbgkew.org.uk with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 1AeXvy-0001up-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 08 Jan 2004 11:02:38 +0000 Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:02:38 -0000 To: From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.7.5 X-Client-IP: 193.128.242.117 Message-Id: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] (no subject) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, I learned plaited braid stitch from Jane Lemon's book Metal Thread Embroidery. If anyone has access to both this book and the article by Leon Conrad will they please have a look at the instructions and tell us whether both methods are the same. Judging by the picture of the finished work on Leon Conrad's site, the two produce identical results. Thanks Annette -- Annette Wilson Australian Botanical Liaison Officer Royal Botanic Gardens Kew Richmond Surrey TW9 3AB UK Voice 44 (0)20 8332 5270 Fax 44 (0)20 8332 5278 Email ablo@rbgkew.org.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 08:19:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08DJrA2008172 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:19:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08DJF4S010191; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 06:19:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08DJCqq036400; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 06:19:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08DJAqq036383 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 06:19:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.123] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A69C471500E2; Thu, 08 Jan 2004 08:09:48 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c3d5ea$b0fadd00$7b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] (no subject) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:24:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know if the pattern is historical, beyond its film debut, but it has been available via another source for many, many years. It used to show up often in the back pages of sewing and needlework mags. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 6:02 AM Subject: [h-cost] (no subject) > Greetings all, > I learned plaited braid stitch from Jane Lemon's book Metal Thread > Embroidery. If anyone has access to both this book and the article by Leon > Conrad will they please have a look at the instructions and tell us whether > both methods are the same. Judging by the picture of the finished work on > Leon Conrad's site, the two produce identical results. > > Thanks > Annette > > > -- > Annette Wilson > Australian Botanical Liaison Officer > Royal Botanic Gardens Kew > Richmond Surrey TW9 3AB UK > Voice 44 (0)20 8332 5270 > Fax 44 (0)20 8332 5278 > Email ablo@rbgkew.org.uk > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 08:29:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08DTEA2008186 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:29:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08DSc4S010740; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 06:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08DScqq039930; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 06:28:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08DSaqq039916 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 06:28:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i08DSaSM001079 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:28:36 -0500 Message-ID: <005101c3d5eb$51797110$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002601c3d5b5$cdf6db50$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Academy in Berkeley, Calif. Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:28:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *sigh* Oh sure... AFTER I move from San Francisco to the east coast...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:05 AM Subject: [h-cost] Costume Academy in Berkeley, Calif. > The Greater Bay Area Costumers Guild has just announced Costume Academy, a > one day, multi-workshop event on Sunday, March 14th in Berkeley, Calif.. > Basically, there are three time slots with three classes in each -- you take > one class per time slot, so a total of three classes in one day. > > The class topics include pattern drafting and draping, trimming (buttons, > embroidery and ribbon flowers), hair pieces and ear prosthetics, Victorian > practical and decorative pleating, and an overview on 18th c. quilted > petticoats. > > Should be excesses of fun -- cost is $45 members (inc. ICG members)/$50 > non-members. Lots more info, include sign-up info, is available at: > > http://www.gbacg.org/ca/ca_about.htm > > I hope to see some of you there! > > - Kendra > http://demode.tweedlebop.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 09:31:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08EVBA2008377 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:31:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08EUS4S014456; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 07:30:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08EULqq065109; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 07:30:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08EUKqq065097 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 07:30:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-50-106.jps.net ([209.165.50.106] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AebAx-0004vW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 08 Jan 2004 06:30:19 -0800 Message-ID: <002b01c3d5f5$1b126500$6a32a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FFD2B59.6090602@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Gone with the wind dresses Re: [h-cost] Butterick 4051 Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 06:38:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deredere wrote > Some time ago I saw butterick pattern 4051 and I didn't understand why > they made a pattern of a dress that looks so horrible in my eyes. > Yesterday I saw Gone With the wind for the fhirst time and saw that > dress, the dress was made out of old curtains. Another dress that wasn't quite right was Scarlet's first wedding dress. I didn't think that was done well either until I read that it was a rush wedding so Scarlet used her mother's old dress and it didn't fit her quite right. Things made sense then. Scarlet, in the book, had a child by each of her three husbands, when she met Rhett she was a single mother with two kids and after the third, well no wonder she was worried about her waist! Not that more wasn't involve with that decision, but some odd things became clear to me after reading the book as well as seeing the movie. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 10:38:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08Fc9A2008687 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:38:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08FbR4S020290; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:37:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08FbMqq001093; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:37:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i08FbLqq001079 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:37:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040108153720.36896.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:37:20 PST Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 07:37:20 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Academy in Berkeley, Calif. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002601c3d5b5$cdf6db50$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dang!!! that looks like fun--but I'm already scheduled to teach gold bullion work at the local SCA's collegium that weekend--sniffle ! Albra Kendra Van Cleave wrote: The Greater Bay Area Costumers Guild has just announced Costume Academy, a one day, multi-workshop event on Sunday, March 14th in Berkeley, Calif.. Basically, there are three time slots with three classes in each -- you take one class per time slot, so a total of three classes in one day. The class topics include pattern drafting and draping, trimming (buttons, embroidery and ribbon flowers), hair pieces and ear prosthetics, Victorian practical and decorative pleating, and an overview on 18th c. quilted petticoats. Should be excesses of fun -- cost is $45 members (inc. ICG members)/$50 non-members. Lots more info, include sign-up info, is available at: http://www.gbacg.org/ca/ca_about.htm I hope to see some of you there! - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 10:49:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08FnjA2008726 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:49:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08Fn64S021443; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:49:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08FmUqq008141; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:48:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08FeWqq002946 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:40:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (new-hslpharmacy.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810+JAGae91741)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA16425 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:40:29 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:40:29 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040108003906.05a13690@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dress in 2004 Wedding Dresses Calendar by Sally Queen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have the 2004 Wedding Dresses Calendar by Sally Queen & Associates. The dress for the month of Jan is a 1912 cream gown worn by Mabel Haskell and owned by the Maine Historical Society. I did check their website for more info and found none. I'd love to adapt this dress to wear to my niece's wedding(in a different color) Does anyone know of a commercial pattern(or patterns) that would allow me to produce something close? I love the assemetric draping of the overskirt(although I'd eliminate the train) so I'd like to find a pattern to do that overskirt, at least. I found some dupinoi silk at Joann's, (called Tropical--a nice pale pink)at $9.99 a yard and used my 40% off coupon. There was enough left on the bolt for either the overdress or underdress and I will have to settle for a different fabric unless JoAnn's gets in another bolt. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 11:28:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08GS5A2008836 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:28:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08GRD4S025911; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:27:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08GR8qq035536; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:27:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08GR4qq035504 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:27:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elizabeth@alabasterstyle.com) Received: from Elizabeth ([64.229.25.225]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040108162703.NWKO19505.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@Elizabeth> for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:27:03 -0500 From: "Alabaster" To: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:26:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Art of Fashion Draping & Costume Technicians Handbook ??? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all - Happy New Year !! I have 2 quick questions. Is anyone familiar with the book The Art of Fashion Draping by Connie Amaden-Crawford? I tried ordering it from my library via inter-library loan & the only copy is listed as "missing". It is available from Amazon but I'm loathe to spend so much money on a book I know so little about. Is it a book that MUST be on my costuming shelf or is it a general how-to-drape book? I'm also curious about the differences between the Costume Technician's Handbook & the Costume Designer's Handbook by Rosemary Ingham & Elizabeth Covey? They must focus on different aspects of costuming but do they overlap a lot too? Any thoughts you may have would be most appreciated! Thanks Elizabeth www.alabasterstyle.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 11:41:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08GfLA2010032 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:41:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08GdW4S027294; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:39:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08GdVqq044016; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:39:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08GdSqq043936 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:39:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83AF542615 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:49:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3FFD87EA.4020208@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 10:40:10 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 4051 References: <3FFD2B59.6090602@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <3FFD2B59.6090602@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > Well, it certanly looks like it :-) . But is the dress completely > fantasy or could it be historical.. It's my opinion that the movie dress is fantasy. It looks ok, until you compare it to photos from the time period. I'm looking at pictures from just after the end of the war. For starters, the neckline is scandalous. Ok, in the book she _was_ trying to get Rhett's attention, and even wearing makeup, I believe, but still. Necklines could be that low, but they were filled with a ruffle of white material to imitate another layer of clothing. Flesh almost never actually showed, and certainly never in the street if she was concerned at all about her reputation. The shoulders should have a dropped sleeve line as was popular in the preceeding years. The movie dress has modern sleeves that ride high on the shoulder. The Butterick pattern does too. The little shoulder cape on the left side is fantasy. The dress is also made with an overskirt that is pulled up or slit in front to show a brighter colored underskirt. I don't see that this style was worn in those years. There was either a single skirt with a ruffle, or a bodice with a long basque. Finally, the tassels are too over the top. Fringe was worn, and ruffles, but not swagged like those curtain ties until a good 20 years later in the century. Compare the Butterick pattern to Simplicity 9761, 7212 and 5442, which are IMO more correct for the time. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 11:45:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08GjCA2010045 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:45:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08GiS4S028022; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:44:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08GiRqq049352; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:44:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08GiPqq048596 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:44:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.12a.38e4ce1c (4214) for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:44:12 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <12a.38e4ce1c.2d2ee2dc@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:44:12 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Art of Fashion Draping & Costume Technicians Handbook ??? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/8/2004 11:29:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, elizabeth@alabasterstyle.com writes: The Art of Fashion Draping by Connie Amaden-Crawford? This is one of the most comprehensive books around on the subject if you do a lot of draping. It covers just about every situation you can think of. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 13:46:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08IkGA2012314 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:46:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08IjU4S011541; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:45:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08IiDqq033938; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:44:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scc074.its.state.nc.us (scc074.its.state.nc.us [207.4.22.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08Ihrqq033664 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:43:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Ellen.Dappert@ncmail.net) Received: from scc074.its.state.nc.us (127.0.0.1) by scc074.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 3F7C9FD50042ACAF for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:43:41 -0500 Received: from ncmail.net (207.4.90.6) by scc074.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 3F7C9FD2004649A0 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:43:39 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFDA4ED.274FE892@ncmail.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:43:57 -0500 From: Ellen Dappert Organization: NC-DJJDP / District 26 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200401071624.i07GOOqr068425@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Christmas and circuit breakers (Mary) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Re: Christmas and circuit breakers (Mary) > > Thank you all so much for all the info. > I love my Bernina. I miss my Bernina so much. I really don't want a new anything, plus which my dear Spousal Unit nearly stroked out when he saw the prices new machine are these days ( though the computerized embroidery functionality is very interesting...) The "get new surge protection every so often" was great advice, we seem to get more than our share of electricy events, and the 30-40 year old aluminium wiring in t he house does't help I'm sure. Mia in Charlotte, 18th Cent. - His Magesty's 64th of Foot 19th Cent - CW, Span/AM, Mex/Am, 20th Cent - Civilian Folks on the USS North Carolina _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 14:32:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08JWiA2012494 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:32:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08JW04S016731; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08JVuqq066834; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:31:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes51.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08JVqqq066737 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:31:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzanne-manley@telus.net) Received: from sookeqr1neuk4p ([207.6.168.40]) by priv-edtnes51.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040108193147.KMXN1955.priv-edtnes51.telusplanet.net@sookeqr1neuk4p> for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:31:47 -0700 Message-ID: <007f01c3d621$f83518c0$9a02a8c0@sookeqr1neuk4p> From: "Suzanne Manley" To: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:59:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I'm new to the list, which was recommended to me by an SCA costumer. Here's my question(s): I have formed a vocal trio with two other women, and we are singing acapella medieval/renaissance music; so far mostly liturgical, with a few folk songs; but I hope to branch out into some madrigals soon. Anyway, I'm looking for some costume ideas for us; in particular, what style of costume would be reasonably compatible with the era of the music we're singing (mostly 15th-17th C, Italian/English/Latin and some plainsong) and that would also be compatible with the requirements of singing(!). So no probably corsets or boning, unless it can be 'faked' so we can still get a really good lungful of air... personally I need about three inches of ease at the bottom of my rib cage for a full breath. I'm thinking that keeping to the middle class styles would be a good start, not too extreme. Houpelands are beautiful but probably a bit heavy, also possibly a bit early compared to the music? A simple underdress with cotte or surcotte would work well, but again might be historically early... I'd also like to avoid anything too excessive (i.e., no Queen Lizzy!), possibly do something Italianate or Flemish. I had a close look at some renaissance Italian gowns (bodice, sleeves, skirt) that were lovely but seemed to require boning. Which is OK if we can fake it (see above). What comments/suggestions do you all have? Thanks for your help! Suzanne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 14:53:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08JrAA2012523 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:53:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08JqT4S018785; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:52:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08JqRqq081147; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:52:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (msg.ureach.com [63.236.74.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08JqOqq081068 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:52:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i08JqNwx025320 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:52:23 -0500 Message-ID: <014d01c3d620$eeba9a50$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007f01c3d621$f83518c0$9a02a8c0@sookeqr1neuk4p> Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:52:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 15th C Italian gowns require no corsetry or boning and I find them very comfortable. Also, if you are concerned about having plenty of breathing room, you might make the bodice a little less snug and wear a giornea over it. You would look quite lovely and graceful and be able to breathe very well! Here is an example of the look I am speaking of..... http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor12.html You could use less ornate fabrics to give it a more middle class feel. I wear this style and it is VERY comfortable. Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzanne Manley" To: Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers > Hi, I'm new to the list, which was recommended to me by an SCA costumer. > Here's my question(s): > > I have formed a vocal trio with two other women, and we are singing acapella > medieval/renaissance music; so far mostly liturgical, with a few folk > songs; but I hope to branch out into some madrigals soon. Anyway, I'm > looking for some costume ideas for us; in particular, what style of costume > would be reasonably compatible with the era of the music we're singing > (mostly 15th-17th C, Italian/English/Latin and some plainsong) and that > would also be compatible with the requirements of singing(!). So no > probably corsets or boning, unless it can be 'faked' so we can still get a > really good lungful of air... personally I need about three inches of ease > at the bottom of my rib cage for a full breath. > > I'm thinking that keeping to the middle class styles would be a good start, > not too extreme. Houpelands are beautiful but probably a bit heavy, also > possibly a bit early compared to the music? A simple underdress with cotte > or surcotte would work well, but again might be historically early... > > I'd also like to avoid anything too excessive (i.e., no Queen Lizzy!), > possibly do something Italianate or Flemish. I had a close look at some > renaissance Italian gowns (bodice, sleeves, skirt) that were lovely but > seemed to require boning. Which is OK if we can fake it (see above). > > What comments/suggestions do you all have? Thanks for your help! > Suzanne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 14:59:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08JxfA2012537 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:59:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08Jx34S019404; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:59:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08Jx2qq085809; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:59:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08Jx0qq085796 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:59:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i08Jwwp1017746 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:58:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040108144051.01930730@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:59:02 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers In-Reply-To: <007f01c3d621$f83518c0$9a02a8c0@sookeqr1neuk4p> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Suzanne - Welcome to the list. I'm interested to hear more about your group... good on you for getting it going. I perform and study opera, as well as other forms of music, so I've sung in corsets and stays etc. And a couple of FUNKY "what were they thinking" costumes... Just a note on historical corsets, you might find it less of a problem than you would first imagine. Most corsets and bodies of the day were more interested in producing a flat front and a smooth line to the hips... and then padding took over to give you BIG hips. So many of my corsets don't interfere with my voice. Just something to consider. But if corsets are right out... I say go with 15th century Florentine, Sienese or Venetian. In most cases no corsetry, the dress gives you lift or shape as you need. You can wear plain day dresses, and fancy them up as your groups needs mature. Good luck. Bridgette A couple of lartists and examples.... to check out what I mean... look at other images by the same artist too. Artist Bronzino: http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/bronzino/p-bronzino7.htm Pontonormo: http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/pontormo/p-pontormo9.htm Titian: http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/titian/p-titian18.htm Raphael: http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/raphael/p-raphae25.htm Lotto: http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/lotto/p-lotto3.htm That's a good start.... ; > >Hi, I'm new to the list, which was recommended to me by an SCA costumer. >Here's my question(s): > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 16:14:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08LE1A2012920 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:14:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08LDP4S026716; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08LDKqq035817; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:13:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08LDIqq035746 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:13:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.62.38fe62c5 (3988) for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:13:07 -0500 (EST) From: MysticsLady9@aol.com Message-ID: <62.38fe62c5.2d2f21e2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:13:06 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/8/2004 11:59:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, ms154@cornell.edu writes: Welcome to the list. I'm interested to hear more about your group... good on you for getting it going. I perform and study opera, as well as other forms of music, so I've sung in corsets and stays etc. And a couple of FUNKY "what were they thinking" costumes... Bridgette: I'm glad you mentioned this. My stepdaughter is a professional opera singer, and has sung in 16th century costumes for "Gloriana"; 18th century costumes for "Marriage of Figaro", and various other period dress, which require corsetry. When the corsets are custome made and worn properly they do not interfere with your breath support. In fact, Chrissy likes being corsetted better than not, because it lends support to "stancing" her ample form. Just some food for thought. Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 18:08:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08N8JA2013238 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:08:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08N7T4S008948; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:07:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08N7Lqq012920; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:07:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08N7Jqq012898 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:07:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HR7001EQ1K611@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:07:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:02:49 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers In-reply-to: <007f01c3d621$f83518c0$9a02a8c0@sookeqr1neuk4p> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040108145418.00b0b628@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hiya Suzanne, Welcome to the list! I have done many years of faire, and have done my share of singing at faire. I will tell you that a corset is no hindrance to getting that good breathe in your diaphragm, so long as it is custom fitted to you, and not purposely made tighter than it should be. A good corset that I wear, while it covers the front to past my belly button, and sides almost to my hips, really only holds me in around the rib cage area and my breasts, and not tightly at that. It gives me the proper form, but I can easily move around, sing, project loudly when I need to, dance, spin wool, cook food, chase my son, bend over, whatever I needed to do. I will also admit that my corset is made with plastic cable ties and not steel, but I don't believe that steel would cause undue problems either, if made properly. I plan on my next corset to be made of steel. I know that I may not be able to tie my shoes anymore when I do, but don't believe that it will limit me much anyway. So if you are interested in a garment that would need a corset, please don't rule it out with regards to singing or any other activity you may do. There are several ways to create a corset that can do whatever you need it to do for you. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 18:12:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08NCGA2013245 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:12:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08MQd4S004230; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:26:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08MQUqq085286; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:26:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08MQSqq085210 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:26:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.d7.ef2b06 (4592) for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 17:26:16 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 17:26:16 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 4051 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/8/2004 11:40:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > It's my opinion that the movie dress is fantasy. Most definitely. Of course in the context of the film, this design more than any other needs to appeal to the current [for the film] zeitgeist. It is THE symbol of ingenuity in hard times. Gumption, y'know... An accurate 1865 gown would never have worked as well. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 18:14:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08NEpA2013253 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:14:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08NDj4S009535; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:13:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08NDiqq017268; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:13:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i08NDgqq017199 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:13:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OsOQNT5+XzXhNVTN5Uafr3M=">; Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:12:46 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JKEJ73UK; Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:12:46 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:48:06 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers Message-ID: <20040108.151158.1260.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-8,13-14,16-22 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ditto here. High waist, side or front laced. Extremely comfortable and they breathe well. A friend made me one using velvet for the skirt and the bodice was of a paisleyed corduroy for the outer fabric and lined with a cotton flannel. I'm about average up top, and felt very well supported. The one she made me was a sleevless gown, worn with a camicia underneath. No problems breathing at all. One thing I really like about it is that I didn't overheat. I've been singing in and directing SCA a cappella choirs for the last almost 21 years. Another possibility is a barrel corset, made for me by a costuming friend who knew I was concerned about reconciling underpinnings to support a heavy gown (Italian Ren, one of those dripping with yards and yards of yards and yards) and still be able to breathe as deeply as I needed to for performance. It works great. The group I direct now has a more medieval focus, so I usually wear sideless surcoats for that. Good luck! Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 18:45:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i08NjaA2013353 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:45:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08Nis4S012922; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:44:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i08Nioqq036879; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:44:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i08Nimqq036796 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:44:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCtLdGPvDrSWcQNijIdXREQfDu83W8CwqhQ==">; Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:44:32 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JKELZ9TZ; Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:44:32 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 17:42:33 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers Message-ID: <20040108.174233.-588561.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10-13 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just to add my tuppence on the breath support in corsets thing- I actually like projecting when wearing a corset better than trying it 'free'. Ask anybody in St. George at Bristol....or anybody at Bristol really, and they will tell you that I can project really well and be heard both when calling cheers for the Queen and when singing in the Noble's Glade before Her Maj. And I do it in full court Elizabethans, complete with properly fitted pair of bodies. The only thing I can compare it to is lifting heavy weights while wearing a weight belt. The stays actually give you something to brace yourself against and lets you really control your breathing. Don't fear a well fitted corset, it could be your friend! Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 22:12:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i093CPA2013813 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:12:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i093Bm4S027667; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 20:11:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i093Bfqq037078; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 20:11:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i093Bdqq037023 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 20:11:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004010903113401400po24le>; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 03:11:34 +0000 Message-ID: <3FFE1BE8.6050402@fenris.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:11:36 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031208 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040108145418.00b0b628@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040108145418.00b0b628@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > Hiya Suzanne, > > Welcome to the list! > > I have done many years of faire, and have done my share of singing at > faire. I will tell you that a corset is no hindrance to getting that > good breathe in your diaphragm, so long as it is custom fitted to you, > and not purposely made tighter than it should be. A good corset that I > wear, while it covers the front to past my belly button, and sides > almost to my hips, really only holds me in around the rib cage area > and my breasts, and not tightly at that. My ribs need expansion room when I play brass or sing. I expand by 2 inches at the bra-band when I take a 'big belly breath' as for playing a long passage. My gut expands 3 inches. I have never been able to reconcile the two different schemes of lacing - tighter for just standing around vs. looser so I can take a really full breath. I am going to do a fitting tonight of my remodeled 1580 Italians. I am planning to check the fit of the dress with the corset laced as for playing. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 23:47:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i094lqA2014691 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:47:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i094l64S004320; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:47:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i094l1qq079005; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:47:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i094l0qq078926 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:47:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2004010904465501500b8uqae>; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 04:46:55 +0000 Message-ID: <3FFE3242.8040509@fenris.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 20:46:58 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031208 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040108145418.00b0b628@64.87.54.245> <3FFE1BE8.6050402@fenris.net> In-Reply-To: <3FFE1BE8.6050402@fenris.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Elizabeth Young wrote: > Kimiko Small wrote: > >> Hiya Suzanne, >> >> Welcome to the list! >> >> I have done many years of faire, and have done my share of singing at >> faire. I will tell you that a corset is no hindrance to getting that >> good breathe in your diaphragm, so long as it is custom fitted to >> you, and not purposely made tighter than it should be. A good corset >> that I wear, while it covers the front to past my belly button, and >> sides almost to my hips, really only holds me in around the rib cage >> area and my breasts, and not tightly at that. > > > > My ribs need expansion room when I play brass or sing. I expand by 2 > inches at the bra-band when I take a 'big belly breath' as for playing > a long passage. My gut expands 3 inches. > I have never been able to reconcile the two different schemes of > lacing - tighter for just standing around vs. looser so I can take a > really full breath. > I am going to do a fitting tonight of my remodeled 1580 Italians. I am > planning to check the fit of the dress with the corset laced as for > playing. > > liz young > OK, (replying to my own post) We laced the corset not so tightly this time. The dress fits reasonably well over the looser lacing. I can breath *almost* as fully as normally. Of course, now my bust is not supported: keeps slithering down inside the front. Phoo. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 23:49:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i094n1A2014696 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:49:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i094mT4S004510; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:48:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i094mSqq079657; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:48:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i094mPqq079623 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:48:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23639 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 00:16:37 -0600 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 00:16:37 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] TV show of interest? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You folks may remember that last spring I posted here looking for a lead on a costume historian in England who could talk knowledgeably about the practicalities of women's 15th century clothing, to be interviewed for a BBC TV show on medieval women. I had already given a phone interview and sent background material to the show's researchers, but they wanted to talk with an expert on-camera, and I am on the wrong side of the water. I ultimately recommended Sarah Thursfield, who -- last I heard -- did agree to be involved in the project. (I am negligent, as she contacted me afterward, and I owe her a note.) Anyway, I see that the show in question is being broadcast on the History Channel on Saturday. It's part of the series "Terry Jones' Medieval Lives." There are a bunch of different segments -- eight or 10, I think -- each focusing on a different medieval archetype. The one I was consulted on, and recommended Sarah for, is "The Damsel." Two episodes of the series are appearing on Saturday: "The King" at 7pm EST, and "The Damsel" at 7:30pm EST. Go to this page for the listing, and you can click on the show title for a very brief summary. http://www.historychannel.com/global/listings/listings.jsp?fromDate=10&fromMonth=0&fromYear=104&NetwCode=THC The summary says "half-hour version," suggesting it may have been cut down from something longer. I have no idea whether Sarah does appear in the show as planned (either in the long version or the short one). As I understand it, "The Damsel" is the only installment in the series that covers women, and the researcher I spoke to said they were going to try to squeeze in as much information about medieval women in general into that show. Given that it's only a half-hour segment, it's possible it won't address clothing at all. But I will be watching (or at least taping). I don't know if the series has already appeared in England, so if any of our UK listmates has seen it, I'd love to hear your opinions. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 8 23:54:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i094sEA2014723 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:54:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i094re4S004937; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:53:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i094reqq081915; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:53:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop2a.ripco.com (root@pop2a.ripco.com [209.100.227.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i094rdqq081904 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:53:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zski@ripco.com) Received: from ripco.com (tcr125.dynip.ripco.net [209.100.226.125]) by pop2a.ripco.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i094sF1r022763 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:54:16 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3FFE33C9.7090103@ripco.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:53:29 -0600 From: zski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a friend with MS, who has recently learned she will soon need a powered wheelchair or scooter to get around. She enjoys attending Renaissance Faires, and is trying to figure out what sorts of things she can wear there will look good while seated. I suggested making a plain "long skirt" out of cheap fabric and wearing it around while using the chair, to get an idea for what would need to change there. Does anyone have any ideas about what might be appropriate or flattering styles? She is a BIG girl (thanks to treatment side effects and inability to walk well) Size 28-32 or so, just over 6' tall, and bosomy. Any suggestions would be appreciated - she is really discouraged about this necessity, and I would like to help her feel "pretty" . (We are talking about making up a horse's head and tail for her "steed"...) Wendy Z (just getting over the flu in ) Chicago, IL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 00:14:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i095EGA2015049 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 00:14:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i095Df4S006428; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:13:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i095Deqq090673; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:13:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (msg.ureach.com [63.236.74.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i095Dbqq090661 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:13:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-154-6-21.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.6.21]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i095Dbwx016254 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 00:13:37 -0500 Message-ID: <00b201c3d66f$55ee9980$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] TV show of interest? Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 00:13:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We have watched two episodes already... the knight and the monk. They were pretty interesting. We have it programmed into our tivo so we are going to catch all of the episodes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historic Costume List" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 1:16 AM Subject: [h-cost] TV show of interest? > > You folks may remember that last spring I posted here looking for a lead > on a costume historian in England who could talk knowledgeably about the > practicalities of women's 15th century clothing, to be interviewed for a > BBC TV show on medieval women. I had already given a phone interview and > sent background material to the show's researchers, but they wanted to > talk with an expert on-camera, and I am on the wrong side of the water. I > ultimately recommended Sarah Thursfield, who -- last I heard -- did agree > to be involved in the project. (I am negligent, as she contacted me > afterward, and I owe her a note.) > > Anyway, I see that the show in question is being broadcast on the History > Channel on Saturday. It's part of the series "Terry Jones' Medieval > Lives." There are a bunch of different segments -- eight or 10, I think -- > each focusing on a different medieval archetype. The one I was consulted > on, and recommended Sarah for, is "The Damsel." Two episodes of the series > are appearing on Saturday: "The King" at 7pm EST, and "The Damsel" at > 7:30pm EST. Go to this page for the listing, and you can click on the > show title for a very brief summary. > > http://www.historychannel.com/global/listings/listings.jsp?fromDate=10&fromMonth=0&fromYear=104&NetwCode=THC > > The summary says "half-hour version," suggesting it may have been cut down > from something longer. I have no idea whether Sarah does appear in the > show as planned (either in the long version or the short one). As I > understand it, "The Damsel" is the only installment in the series that > covers women, and the researcher I spoke to said they were going to try to > squeeze in as much information about medieval women in general into that > show. Given that it's only a half-hour segment, it's possible it won't > address clothing at all. But I will be watching (or at least taping). > > I don't know if the series has already appeared in England, so if any of > our UK listmates has seen it, I'd love to hear your opinions. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 00:37:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i095bjA2015237 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 00:37:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i095aT4S008304; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:36:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i095aNqq000418; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:36:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i095aMqq000411 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:36:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-125-202.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.125.202]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i095aJOH029336 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:36:21 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040108212816.04eca100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 21:35:01 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... In-Reply-To: <3FFE33C9.7090103@ripco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >She enjoys attending Renaissance Faires, and is trying to figure out what >sorts of things she can wear there will look good while seated. I >suggested making a plain "long skirt" out of cheap fabric and wearing it >around while using the chair, to get an idea for what would need to change >there. Leave the back seam of the skirt open, unless she will do any walking while there. This makes certain functions much easier. >Does anyone have any ideas about what might be appropriate or flattering >styles? She is a BIG girl (thanks to treatment side effects and inability >to walk well) Size 28-32 or so, just over 6' tall, and bosomy. Simple lines and no fussy details. >Any suggestions would be appreciated - she is really discouraged about >this necessity, and I would like to help her feel "pretty" . Lots of her favorite colors, and lines of lace trim if she's the girly type. Frame her face with a nice hat or headpiece. Use good-looking jewelry, even if it's from a thrift store. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 00:53:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i095r4A2015421 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 00:53:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i095qA4S009361; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:52:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i095q9qq007442; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:52:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i095q7qq007428 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:52:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a27.in-tch.com [66.62.107.7]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i095UAN09031 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:30:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FFE4233.8040709@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:54:59 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... References: <4.3.1.2.20040108212816.04eca100@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040108212816.04eca100@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What she said....;o) I'd add, making sure that the fabrics for her outfit(s) have some body too them (not too flimsy), but not so much that they're stiff. A style that has some flow to it, and not a lot of fiddly bits. Of course, I think that's pretty good advice for all of us "big girls," no matter our method of locomotion! It also occurs to me that you might check period art (of whatever period is her preference), and look for examples of women sitting--middle-class ItalianRen, maybe? or one of Robin's GFD? --sue Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> She enjoys attending Renaissance Faires, and is trying to figure out >> what sorts of things she can wear there will look good while seated. >> I suggested making a plain "long skirt" out of cheap fabric and >> wearing it around while using the chair, to get an idea for what would >> need to change there. > > > Leave the back seam of the skirt open, unless she will do any walking > while there. This makes certain functions much easier. > >> Does anyone have any ideas about what might be appropriate or >> flattering styles? She is a BIG girl (thanks to treatment side >> effects and inability to walk well) Size 28-32 or so, just over 6' >> tall, and bosomy. > > > Simple lines and no fussy details. > >> Any suggestions would be appreciated - she is really discouraged about >> this necessity, and I would like to help her feel "pretty" . > > > Lots of her favorite colors, and lines of lace trim if she's the girly > type. Frame her face with a nice hat or headpiece. Use good-looking > jewelry, even if it's from a thrift store. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 01:28:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i096SdA2015755 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:28:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i096S54S011329; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:28:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i096Rxqq022638; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:27:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f80.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i096Rvqq022603 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:27:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from davidparishwhittaker@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:27:51 -0800 Received: from 68.7.50.100 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 06:27:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.7.50.100] X-Originating-Email: [davidparishwhittaker@hotmail.com] X-Sender: davidparishwhittaker@hotmail.com From: "David Parish-Whittaker" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:27:51 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jan 2004 06:27:51.0601 (UTC) FILETIME=[B5348210:01C3D679] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costumes for musicians X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Your mileage may vary. My wife's a professional flute player and does the early music thing too. While she could play with a corset, she wouldn't get the full lung capacity- while she'd hardly be doing her Robert Dick multiphonic routine, she still likes to have her full ability. So I put a second row of hooks and eyes on her (lightly) boned bodice, she sets it to that for playing and eating large amounts of chocolate. We both play in a medieval group as well- no problems with 13th century outfits. BTW, I play harp, and guys don't wear corsets anyway. nyah nyah nyah nyah.... _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work — and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 01:41:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i096fsA2015786 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:41:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i096fJ4S012132; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:41:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i096fJqq027829; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:41:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i096fGqq027788 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:41:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004010906411101400pdmjle>; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 06:41:11 +0000 Message-ID: <3FFE4D0B.8080105@fenris.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:41:15 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031208 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes for musicians References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO David Parish-Whittaker wrote: > > BTW, I play harp, and guys don't wear corsets anyway. nyah nyah nyah > nyah.... > phhhhhpth... liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 02:21:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i097LhA2001285 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:21:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i097L54S013916; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 00:21:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i097L2qq044269; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 00:21:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i097L1qq044246 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 00:21:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MysticsLady9@aol.com) Received: from MysticsLady9@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.3f.268b5708 (15875) for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:20:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m09.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.137]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID72-3e033ffe565335; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 02:20:51 -0500 Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 02:20:51 -0500 From: MysticsLady9@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes for musicians MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3D8C5B19.54E51CC6.3739C57F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.126.83.245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/9/2004 1:27:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, davidparishwhittaker@hotmail.com writes: > BTW, I play harp, and guys don't wear corsets anyway. nyah > nyah nyah > nyah.... Obviously you don't play nobility. Laura "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 03:39:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i098dpA2009300 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 03:39:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i098dG4S017162; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:39:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i098dDqq075267; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:39:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i098dCqq075260 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:39:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HR7000OUS1AZQ@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:39:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:36:08 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers In-reply-to: <3FFE3242.8040509@fenris.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040109003249.01ede478@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3FFE1BE8.6050402@fenris.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20040108145418.00b0b628@64.87.54.245> <3FFE1BE8.6050402@fenris.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:46 PM 1/8/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Of course, now my bust is not supported: keeps slithering down inside the >front. >Phoo. > >liz young Try tacking in a rolled sausage where your breasts would sit on top of them. It was an old trick to give breast more "high cleavage" than normal, especially for smaller breasted ladies. One friend would use old gym socks (cleaned), another used bra paddings or shoulder pads, and I seem to recall The Brown Book just suggesting a small roll tacked into place being helpful. Just a thought. Do what is best for your needs, corset or otherwise. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 03:49:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i098n1A2009322 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 03:49:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i098mU4S017475; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:48:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i098lJqq077892; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:47:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i098lHqq077853 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:47:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EAACBEA01 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:47:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FFE6C0A.5010102@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 09:53:30 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, This is a very nice 18th century corset. There is no way I could affort it but I found it very interesting to look at the pictures. Interesting to see those bun rolls attached to the corset. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2881190466&category=48864 Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 04:25:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i099PUA2009859 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 04:25:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i099Ou4S018866; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:24:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i099Osqq090559; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:24:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i099Oqqq090541 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:24:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i099RCA03803.; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:27:12 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 09:24:49 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 09:24:09 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> lizyoung@fenris.net 1/9/04 4:46:58 AM >>> Elizabeth Young wrote: >OK, (replying to my own post) >We laced the corset not so tightly this time. The dress fits reasonably >well over the looser lacing. I can breath *almost* as fully as normally. >Of course, now my bust is not supported: keeps slithering down inside >the front. >Phoo. I have the same problem, as a woodwind player (and occasional singer) with a 1630s group, with an AA bust and no spare flesh on my torso. I got a corset in the hope of achieving a bit of cleavage for once, but if I lace tightly enough for that I can't breathe deeply enough to play my shawm properly. I'll have to experimernt further with padding down the front... ______________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 05:45:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09Aj2A2010011 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 05:45:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09AiS4S023113; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 03:44:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09AiNqq019056; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 03:44:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09AiLqq019043 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 03:44:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lee@gw.retro.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id i09AlNG12410 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:47:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:47:23 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200401091047.i09AlNG12410@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > She enjoys attending Renaissance Faires, and is trying to figure out > what sorts of things she can wear there will look good while seated. I > suggested making a plain "long skirt" out of cheap fabric and wearing it > around while using the chair, to get an idea for what would need to > change there. > > Does anyone have any ideas about what might be appropriate or flattering > styles? She is a BIG girl (thanks to treatment side effects and > inability to walk well) Size 28-32 or so, just over 6' tall, and bosomy. I use a manual wheelchair, but some of this will apply anyway: Make sure the skirt does not bunch up under her when she sits. A big wrinkle under your butt can become a pressure sore if you can't get up and walk around. The other things to think about will be keeping the skirt out of the wheels. Some of the details will depend on what type of powerchair or scooter she gets. Her seating system will have a large impact on what she'll be able to wear, as well. Just as a generic idea, I'd want a skirt that was relatively slim, and possibly straps around the back at knee and calf level to keep the skirt under control. It'd still be full enough to walk/hobble if she got up, but wouldn't get caught in the wheels. I wore my "narrow" skirted dress and small petticoat for Dickens Fair and still had problems with the skirt getting caught in my wheel locks. If I'd had more time to mess with things, I'd have put a gathering strap at calf level where it'd be hidden by the bottom ruffle of the skrit. That would have kept the skirt down around my legs instead of billowing up and into my wheels and generally making it hard to transfer in and out of the chair. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 05:50:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09AoEA2010035 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 05:50:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Ako4S023205; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 03:46:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Aknqq019871; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 03:46:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Akmqq019865 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 03:46:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lee@gw.retro.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id i09AnoC12429 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:49:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:49:50 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200401091049.i09AnoC12429@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kayta says: >Leave the back seam of the skirt open, unless she will do any walking while >there. This makes certain functions much easier. If she's considering a scooter at all, she can probably hobble a little bit. In general, mobility scooters are not meant for someone who can't at least stand. Plus, having just done the big skirt/wheelchair thing, having the back open only works if you can somehow secure the skirt to keep it from getting in the way of the drive wheels and/or tangling up in other equipment. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 07:56:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09CunA2010423 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:56:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09CuB4S029214; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 05:56:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Cu8qq067776; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 05:56:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mattdrury.net (adslct226.cofs.net [66.77.170.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Cu6qq067762 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 05:56:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from widowweeds@cs.com) Received: from Spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MO00054B; 9 Jan 04 07:56:05 -0500 Received: from spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32); 9 Jan 04 07:55:48 -0500 Received: from mjd (66.77.170.226) by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) with ESMTP ID MG00054A; 9 Jan 04 07:55:41 -0500 Message-ID: <057c01c3d6af$e2e73550$13fea8c0@mjd> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00b201c3d66f$55ee9980$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] TV show of interest? Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:55:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > We have watched two episodes already... the knight and the monk. They were > pretty interesting. We have it programmed into our tivo so we are going to Sounds like it. That's exactly where I'm headed now too. :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 09:45:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09EjcA2010801 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:45:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Eit4S007006; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:44:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Eioqq013289; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:44:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Einqq013279 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:44:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-44-007.jps.net ([209.165.44.7] helo=pavilion) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AexsW-0000du-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 06:44:49 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01c3d6c0$45401b80$072ca5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes for musicians Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 06:52:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO David wrote: > > BTW, I play harp, and guys don't wear corsets anyway. nyah nyah nyah > nyah.... Oh I wouldn't be so sure about that!!! A few of here could whip one up for you and add some bran filled pads to fill out your calves too! Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 09:52:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09EqWA2010814 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:52:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Epv4S007603; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:51:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Epuqq016466; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:51:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Eptqq016457 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:51:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-44-007.jps.net ([209.165.44.7] helo=pavilion) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AexzO-000261-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 06:51:54 -0800 Message-ID: <001b01c3d6c1$42c5d740$072ca5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401091047.i09AlNG12410@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:00:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > I use a manual wheelchair, but some of this will apply anyway: > Make sure the skirt does not bunch up under her when she sits. A > big wrinkle under your butt can become a pressure sore if you can't > get up and walk around. Or make a skirt with no gathering in the back but only in the front. This way it will still look like a full skirt while sitting, Okay this doesn't address the getting caught in the wheels issue, but still an idea. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com He thats borne to be hanged need feare no drowining. 16th century proverb _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 09:53:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09ErXA2010818 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:53:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Eqx4S007677; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:52:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Eqwqq016986; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:52:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from siscom.net (counterstrike.siscom.net [209.251.2.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Eqvqq016965 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:52:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drea@nospam) Received: from shell.siscom.net (unverified [209.251.2.80]) by siscom.net (BoogerMAIL) with ESMTP id 4730827 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 09:52:19 -0500 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:52:55 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay In-Reply-To: <3FFE6C0A.5010102@kabelfoon.nl> Message-ID: <20040109095237.F15453@shell.siscom.net> References: <3FFE6C0A.5010102@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You are E-E-E-E-E-VIL!!! (thanks. :) Drea On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > This is a very nice 18th century corset. There is no way I could affort > it but I found it very interesting to look at the pictures. > Interesting to see those bun rolls attached to the corset. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2881190466&category=48864 > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 10:09:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09F9lA2010875 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:09:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09F994S009049; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:09:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09F97qq025399; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:09:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09F95qq025357 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:09:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.114] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1DC75B00106; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 09:59:40 -0500 Message-ID: <001201c3d6c3$37aa99c0$725183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:14:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] wired tape/cord for bustle ruffles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i09F9lA2010875 Status: RO I am in the midst of a 'bustle' project and are looking for wired tape or cording of a suitable weight with which to edge ruffling for a bustle. I have checked G&H and see nothing available. I have seen a couple of ready made garments in the market place now, so it must be out there. Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 11:01:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09G1aA2011085 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:01:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09G0n4S013674; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:00:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09G0lqq056274; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:00:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09G0jqq056256 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:00:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-34-154.jps.net ([209.165.34.154] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Aez40-0002hi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 08:00:44 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01c3d6ca$dcfb4b20$9a22a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FFE6C0A.5010102@kabelfoon.nl> <20040109095237.F15453@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:08:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh that is sooooo beautiful!!! good luck Drea and thanks Deredere for posting, its just nice to have a look! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay > You are E-E-E-E-E-VIL!!! > > (thanks. :) > > Drea > > On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > This is a very nice 18th century corset. There is no way I could affort > > it but I found it very interesting to look at the pictures. > > Interesting to see those bun rolls attached to the corset. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2881190466&category=48864 > > > > Greetings, > > Deredere > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 11:05:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09G5gA2011097 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:05:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09G524S014110; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09G52qq059022; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:05:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i09G4xqq058937 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:04:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Ogi2/9TPUa1wLXuD++fJQOk=">; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 08:04:50 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JKGC48Q4; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 08:04:50 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:58:30 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... Message-ID: <20040109.080424.1796.5.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-7,9-12,23-24,32-33,41-43,45-47,55-56,58-61,63-64 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > She enjoys attending Renaissance Faires, and is trying to figure out > what sorts of things she can wear there will look good while seated. > I suggested making a plain "long skirt" out of cheap fabric and > wearing it around while using the chair, to get an idea for what would need to > change there. > > Does anyone have any ideas about what might be appropriate or > flattering styles? She is a BIG girl (thanks to treatment side effects and > inability to walk well) Size 28-32 or so, just over 6' tall, and > bosomy. Anything with drapy skirts would be pretty. Italian Ren is great because the fabrics are allowed to drape naturally as opposed to having underpinnings which *make* the fabric drape one way or the other. She might look at making the front of the skirts a tad longer than the back, to account for the differential when she is seated, so the skirts will cover her feet (a tip i picked up from a friend who designs skirts for those who are mobility-assisted). She might consider using a buckram to stiffen the bodice a little to give her the support she wants. Also if she uses a bit of fabric "tape" along the bottom of the skirt it will help keep it from rolling, if fabric rolling is a concern, and putting curtain weights at the seams can also help with this problem. Someone else mentioned leaving a back seam open. If she goes for Italian Ren, the simple style I mentioned in an earlier post can also leave the skirt side seams open for about 2-3 inches at the top where the skirt connects to a side-laced bodice. This makes it easier to pick up the skirt when dealing with neccessities of life, and also allows her to pin in a pocket she can reach, or wear a belt under the dress which she can hang a belt pouch from (which can be discreetly hidden under the skirt when not in use). HOWEVER, if she plans on walking around, cut the skirts a little shorter in the front so she won't trip over them. I typically wear sideless surcoats to suit my SCA persona, and have walking issues from severe RA--any skirt I can walk over is a potential hazard. So my seamstress cleverly put in a wide side gore in the skirt which angled the skirt so that it is longer in the back than in the front, thus keeping it well off my feet (my skirts in front are no longer than the tops of my feet), and allows the skirt to flow gracefully and drape well. > Any suggestions would be appreciated - she is really discouraged > about this necessity, and I would like to help her feel "pretty" . (We > are talking about making up a horse's head and tail for her "steed"...) Another thing to consider is dressing her hair to suit the style, or wearing suitable headwear. Use simple but elegant accessories. Try using beading to suit the patterns on the fabric if a print on the bodice and headpiece. I have a gorgeous Italian overgown which is in a quatrefoil diaper pattern (quatrefoils form the basis of my heraldry ;) )--beading the dress would be far too busy, so I beaded the front portion of the matching cap with tiny beads on the pattern--it is very simple and elegant and has been the source of many complements. She can be made to look like an noble lady sitting on her palfrey. Add horse barding and she's got it made. :-) > Wendy Z Sounds fun! I've had occaision to look into that as well. Tell your friend to hang in there--it can be done, and done well. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 11:06:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09G6dA2011103 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:06:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09G5l4S014216; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:05:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09G5kqq059513; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:05:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09G53qq058965 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:05:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.243]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 78EC15EE17A for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:04:57 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c3d6ca$5b72e4a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FFE6C0A.5010102@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:05:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Deredere, This is a beautifull speciment. Thanks a lot of that link. It is rather interresting, because i have a pattern, wich looks very much like this, including the padded rolls and the attached sleaves. Thanks a lot. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 9:53 AM Subject: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay > Hi, > > This is a very nice 18th century corset. There is no way I could affort > it but I found it very interesting to look at the pictures. > Interesting to see those bun rolls attached to the corset. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2881190466&category=48864 > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 11:27:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09GRAA2011171 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:27:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09GPA4S016218; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:25:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09GOsqq072301; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:24:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09GOqqq072226 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:24:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 10:24:47 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 10:24:40 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bodice Support X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One of the wenches at our local renfaire has a solution for this. She is fairly well-endowed but has had her weight go up and down several times when she didn't have time to get a new bodice constructed. Her solution was to put a triangle of foam (one corner is 90 degrees, another is elongated, I know there is a name for this kind of triangle but I can't think of it right now) under the bosom as a support. The triangle is about as wide as her nipple-to-nipple measurement, short side is only about 2 inches deep. The right angle goes up under the bosom, elongated point toward the waist. I will try an ascii sketch: __ \ | \ | \| She covered her original 'pillow' in cotton, I used linen for someone this year, neither has heat problems from the foam. The bodice/corset cinches in the bottom part of the foam, pushing part of it up to help support the bosom. The only problem we have had is occasionally the bodice doesn't cinch in the bottom part completely and there was a slightly rounded, instead of flat, stomach area. Hope this helps. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 11:53:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09GrdA2011242 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:53:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Gqw4S019278; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:52:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Gqsqq090945; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:52:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hiram.io.com (root@hiram.io.com [199.170.88.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Gqqqq090913 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:52:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (IDENT:+bfkPwEqk9DQuvAqRh/+qi+p0qrURkT7@columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by hiram.io.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i09Gqst27636 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:52:54 -0600 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id i09Gqqqk029629 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:52:52 -0600 Received: from 199.50.29.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:52:52 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <14780.199.50.29.40.1073667172.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:52:52 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bodice Support From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another solution: What I have seen in theatrical costume sewing was to put a roll on the bodice/corset/under shirt that is at the height that you want the bottom edge of your bosom to be. The reason you attach it to your garment is so that it will not slip and thus let you slip, hence no support. Chiara Catherine Kinsey said: > One of the wenches at our local renfaire has a solution for this. She > is fairly well-endowed but has had her weight go up and down several > times when she didn't have time to get a new bodice constructed. Her > solution was to put a triangle of foam (one corner is 90 degrees, > another is elongated, I know there is a name for this kind of triangle > but I can't think of it right now) under the bosom as a support. The > triangle is about as wide as her nipple-to-nipple measurement, short > side is only about 2 inches deep. The right angle goes up under the > bosom, elongated point toward the waist. I will try an ascii sketch: > __ > \ | > \ | > \| > > She covered her original 'pillow' in cotton, I used linen for someone > this year, neither has heat problems from the foam. The bodice/corset > cinches in the bottom part of the foam, pushing part of it up to help > support the bosom. The only problem we have had is occasionally the > bodice doesn't cinch in the bottom part completely and there was a > slightly rounded, instead of flat, stomach area. Hope this helps. > > Catherine > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Ches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 12:41:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09HfvA2011427 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:41:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09HfI4S024571; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:41:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09HfEqq024849; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:41:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09HfBqq024757 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:41:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.63.26f15c35 (3988) for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:41:03 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <63.26f15c35.2d3041ae@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:41:02 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/9/2004 11:06:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > is rather interresting, because i have a pattern, wich looks very much > like this, including the padded rolls and the attached sleaves. > Yes. And the photos of it are enough so that I think I could make a replica of the thing. Great!!!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 13:08:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09I8AA2011527 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:08:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09I1I4S026702; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:01:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09I1Cqq038664; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:01:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mattdrury.net (adslct226.cofs.net [66.77.170.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09I1Aqq038646 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:01:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from widowweeds@cs.com) Received: from Spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MO00060E; 9 Jan 04 13:01:10 -0500 Received: from spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32); 9 Jan 04 13:00:59 -0500 Received: from mjd (66.77.170.226) by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) with ESMTP ID MG00060D; 9 Jan 04 13:00:55 -0500 Message-ID: <068601c3d6da$8723f0c0$13fea8c0@mjd> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <63.26f15c35.2d3041ae@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:00:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Yes. And the photos of it are enough so that I think I could make a replica I should submit eBay sometime as a secondary source for judging. :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 13:18:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09IIYA2011578 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:18:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09IBZ4S027797; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:11:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09IBYqq045805; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:11:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09IBWqq045775 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:11:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104112.uvm.edu [132.198.104.112]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09IBVUT015394 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:11:31 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFEEECB.1070501@uvm.edu> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 13:11:23 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: (no subject)]] Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 13:03:02 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg To: hag@uvm.edu OK, decision time - and time to make a new gown. I've been looking at "transition" gowns, the northern European gowns from the turn of the 15th/16th century that have the front opening and square-ish necklines. If we look at the late "burgundian" variation (or, Robin's "fitted gown with v-neck variation" !) we see an interesting development. In addition to the "piece" that covers the bosom horizontally, there is also a variation at the necklines that fills it in more vertically. As in: 1) Hugo van der Goes: Triptych (1476-79) - Maria Portinari's gown: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/g/goes/portinar/right.jpg 2) Memling: Barbara Moreel and daughters (1484) - black "piece," black fill in neckline and white under that http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/m/memling/3mature3/25more31.jpg 3) Memling: Donor (1490) - black "piece" and black fill http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/m/memling/5late/37frag3.jpg and this variation: 4) Memling: Young woman (1480) - red "piece" and black at neckline http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/m/memling/3mature1/16portra.jpg Then at the turn of the century the belt goes away, the waist drops, the neckline becomes more square, there is a definite front opening, and the gown moves toward the horizontal wide/turn back sleeves look that will become very popular over the next few decades. The question is: is the black in the neckline a partlett-type object or is it the fitted, form-shaping undergown (even a petticoat-bodies precursor?)? 1) Coter: Baptism of St. Libertus (1490s)- the more standard look: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/c/coter/baptism.jpg 2) Master of Moulins: Margaret of Austria (1490) embroidery on black http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/m/master/moulins/anne_aus.jpg 3) Unknown: Archery Festival (1493) - several women have the square-ish neckline, front opening, filled in black http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/m/master/zunk_fl/15_paint/3/02archer.jpg 4) David: Marriage at Cana (1500) http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/d/david/2/cana_mau.jpg 5) David: donor (1505) http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/d/david/2/trompe.jpg 6) David: donor's child (1505) http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/d/david/2/trompes4.jpg 7) David: children (1505) http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/d/david/2/trompes2.jpg 8) Bosch: Adoration (1510) - donor figure: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/b/bosch/painting/triptyc2/magi_3.jpg and an unusual variation: 9) Master of the Legend of St. Ursula: Portrait of a Lady (1480-1500) - black fill, and another layer between it and gown - unusual. http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/m/master/ursula/4portrai.jpg I have several other images not online that show the hint of black at the wrist, suggesting a fitted undergown (including the variation that has short sleeves with a voluminous bell shape sleeve under that, then a fitted sleeve). What say you all?? - Hope P.S. And here are a few more outliers just for fun: 1) Grimani Breviary 1490-1510: my favorite mix of styles! http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/zgothic/miniatur/1451-500/2netherl/05n_1450.jpg 2) Hemesan: Woman weighing Gold - much later but interesting... http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/h/hemessen/jan/weighing.jpg 30 JOOS van Cleve: Portrait of Agniete van den Rijne - the much later gown that clearly shows the undergown layers http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/j/joos/cleve/portrai2.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 14:06:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09J6vA2011824 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:06:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Ixx4S003025; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Ixrqq079042; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:59:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav65.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Ixqqq078968 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:59:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:59:46 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav65.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 18:59:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes for musicians Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:59:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jan 2004 18:59:46.0801 (UTC) FILETIME=[BFF5B610:01C3D6E2] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > BTW, I play harp, and guys don't wear corsets anyway. nyah nyah nyah > nyah.... I wouldn't be so sure about that. Well, probably most men didn't, but I'm willing to bet that certain vain men wore corsets or shapers of some sort. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 14:35:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09JZkA2011944 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:35:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09JSo4S006337; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:28:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09JSlqq098513; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:28:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09JSjqq098483 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:28:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lee@gw.retro.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id i09JVjg14716 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:31:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:31:46 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200401091931.i09JVjg14716@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Lisa Sinervo" wrote: > > I use a manual wheelchair, but some of this will apply anyway: > > Make sure the skirt does not bunch up under her when she sits. A > > big wrinkle under your butt can become a pressure sore if you can't > > get up and walk around. > > Or make a skirt with no gathering in the back but only in the front. This > way it will still look like a full skirt while sitting, Okay this doesn't > address the getting caught in the wheels issue, but still an idea. You'll still need a method to control the skirt at least at the hem level. If the skirt wants to spread out (either from gores or gathering), it'll try and migrate out and back...which usually gets it caught in the wheels. Or on some powerchairs, in the servos for the seating system (seat backs often tilt back, and some seating systems tilt in space or lift). In my little manual chair, I've put holes in dresses because I didn't at first really how *easy* it was to get something caught in the wheels and the wheel locks. Getting something caught in the wheel locks was a really rude suprise the first time I tried to transfer out of the chair and realized I was still attached to the chair. ;} --Lee _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 14:40:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09Je3A2011971 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:40:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09JXC4S006671; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:33:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09JXBqq001575; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:33:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09JXAqq001562 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:33:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lee@gw.retro.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id i09JaAb14744 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:36:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:36:10 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200401091936.i09JaAb14744@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia J Ley wrote: > > I have a gorgeous Italian overgown which is in a quatrefoil > diaper pattern (quatrefoils form the basis of my heraldry ;) )--beading > the dress would be far too busy, so I beaded the front portion of the > matching cap with tiny beads on the pattern--it is very simple and > elegant and has been the source of many complements. Ah, that's the other thing I learned the hard way: don't bead or heavily embroider the back of a dress. I have a short tunic that I made before I'd spent much time in a wheelchair. The hem design hits right behind my knees and the decoration there has to be carefully managed so it doesn't leave big welts on my skin now. --Lee _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 14:44:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09JiNA2012035 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:44:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Jfr4S007418; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:41:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Jfoqq007129; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:41:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Jflqq007089 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:41:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28786 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:10:02 -0600 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:10:02 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown In-Reply-To: <3FFEEECB.1070501@uvm.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Hope Greeenberg wrote: > From: Hope Greeenberg Hope! You've added an "e"! > OK, decision time - and time to make a new gown. I've been looking at > "transition" gowns, the northern European gowns from the turn of the > 15th/16th century that have the front opening and square-ish necklines. > > If we look at the late "burgundian" variation (or, Robin's "fitted gown > with v-neck variation" !) we see an interesting development. In addition > to the "piece" that covers the bosom horizontally, there is also a > variation at the necklines that fills it in more vertically. ... > > The question is: is the black in the neckline a partlett-type object or > is it the fitted, form-shaping undergown (even a petticoat-bodies > precursor?)? Well, when you figure it out, tell me! I've seen nearly all those paintings in person and I still don't know what that thing is. But my gut -- nothing firmer than that, I'm afraid -- tells me that it's not a dress. Just the way it wraps around the neck, plus I've never seen a standalone dress with such a shape at the neck anywhere near this period (and you do sometimes see underdresses alone, in less formal images). Also, the uniformity of the color -- always black, which is also the preferred bosom-fill color -- suggests it's a movable accessory that can be worn with anything. My inclination, if I have to go by guess, is that it's a sort of scarf or pre-partlet or in some cases a little dickey-sort-of-thing. It's worth remembering that earlier in the century, you sometimes see a white or transparent silky scarf-like piece draped in this same angle, sometimes visibly pinned to the front of the horizontal fill-piece or undergown. So the idea of draping a protective layer around the neck and over the shoulders isn't completely new. Maybe it also serves a practical function with this dress style -- e.g. does it keep it from slipping or sliding, just as the black velvet strip under a tall hennin possibly help in securing the hennin? Does it provide a comfort/cleanliness layer between the fur collar and the skin? And perhaps most important, does it conceal the neckline of a supportive underdress that would, otherwise, tend to slip into sight? That last thought is very attractive, as some of those overgowns go awfully wide, either at the shoulder (for V-necks) or at the sides of the lower neckline corners (for square necks such as this one of your examples: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/d/david/2/cana_mau.jpg ). On that last example, also note that the underdress cuff is red, which would tend to argue against a black underdress unless it has red cuffs. If you have a functional supportive underdress, you would have a lot of problems making sure that it doesn't peek out at the neck of these overgowns ... but if you have the options of adding either or both a horizontal bosom-fill piece and a vertical shoulder-covering piece, you don't need to be concerned. > P.S. And here are a few more outliers just for fun: > 1) Grimani Breviary 1490-1510: my favorite mix of styles! > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/zgothic/miniatur/1451-500/2netherl/05n_1450.jpg Watch out for this source! The artists very likely copied parts of some images from the Tres Riches Heures -- the similarities throughout the book are too obvious to be an accident. And they may have used other existing books for image sources as well. I know there have been studies on this, but the one I have in hand is German, and I don't read a word of that. Anyway, to my eye, the dagged houppelande in the lower left looks like an intentional throwback. So I wouldn't be comfortable assuming the styles in this image (or book) are all contemporary. > 2) Hemesan: Woman weighing Gold - much later but interesting... > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/h/hemessen/jan/weighing.jpg Hemessan? A new name to me, but also a bit out of my usual period. And "Woman"? Hah. When I look at this I think of a certain Jan Gossaert painting of a girl holding an astrolabe -- as a visual joke, Gossaert painted the child in a standard portrait pose normally used for learned men of science. (And she's holding the astrolabe upside down -- rather like she's playing dress-up for the portrait. Absolutely charming.) This appears to be a similar sort of play, though I don't know enough about the items on the table to know if there's a joke there. But the face is that of a child. It looks not unlike a Gossaert in the eyes, and in facial style also much like Quentin Massys (Mestys), one of my all-time favorite painters. Here's the Gossaert: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/g/gossaert/2/girl.jpg And another Gossaert, a woman portrayed as the Magdalen, with a typical Gossaertish presentation that's quite similar to the Hemessan: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/g/gossaert/1/marymagd.jpg Here's a Massys, so you can see what I mean about the facial style. (Except that Massys tended to do these weird half-closed eyes.) http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/m/massys/quentin/3/magdalen.jpg I wonder if Hemessan could have had contact with Gossaert. The site tells us only that Hemessan (1500-1556) studied in Antwerp and settled in Haarlem. (Pulls out reference books.) OK, Gossaert (1478-1533) was registered in the Guild Master's list at Antwerp in 1503, and Hemessen in 1524. Hemessen didn't move to Haarlem till around 1550. They would have *had* to have known each other, and Hemessen would have likely emulated Gossaert, who was quite influential. Hmm, and they both went to Italy (though not at the same time). My artist reference also says of Hemessen (death date given as 1566 here): "His satirical portraits link him with Quentin Massys and Marinus van Reymerswaele." Marinus van Reymerswaele is best known for a series of paintings showing people handling money (bankers, moneylenders, misers, tax-collectors), including some showing a moneylender and his wife counting gold: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/r/reymersw/index.html Massys also painted the same subject: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/m/massys/quentin/2/moneylen.jpg So I think we have a strong case here for some interchange of ideas -- a satirical portrait of a child in a typical adult portrait presentation, in this case as a money-counter. Oh, um, sorry. (Detour: Art historian at work.) Where were we? Oh, costume. In the money-counting girl. Maybe that black scarf-thing, crossed over her front neckline, is related to the theoretical black scarf we've been contemplating. > 30 JOOS van Cleve: Portrait of Agniete van den Rijne - the much later > gown that clearly shows the undergown layers > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/j/joos/cleve/portrai2.jpg And this undergown isn't shaped at all like the "filler" pieces we've been looking at. --Robin in work avoidance mode _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 15:34:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09KYXA2013056 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:34:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09KRe4S012289; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:27:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09KRcqq038639; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:27:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09KRaqq038615 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:27:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-236-151.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.236.151]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09KRXOJ016320 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:27:34 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040109120859.05a19980@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 12:10:36 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay In-Reply-To: <63.26f15c35.2d3041ae@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Yes. And the photos of it are enough so that I think I could make a replica >of the thing. For this purpose, it's so nice to see the inside of this garment. The average costume book of 25 years ago showed one image from the outside; the average costume book of today shows a few images - from the outside only. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 15:35:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09KZ1A2013083 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:35:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09KSC4S012341; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:28:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09KSBqq039021; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:28:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09KRbqq038627 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:27:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-236-151.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.236.151]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09KRXOL016320 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:27:36 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040109122712.04c026c0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 12:27:30 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 18thC stays - lots of them X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://members.localnet.com/~barnwood/stayspics.htm CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 15:44:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09KiUA2013320 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:44:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09KbZ4S013318; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:37:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09KbYqq045727; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:37:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09KbXqq045711 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:37:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104112.uvm.edu [132.198.104.112]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09KbWUT015628 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:37:33 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFF1104.6030902@uvm.edu> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 15:37:24 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > My inclination, if I have to go by guess, is > that it's a sort of scarf or pre-partlet or in some cases a little > dickey-sort-of-thing. > Maybe it also serves a practical function with this dress style -- e.g. > does it keep it from slipping or sliding, just as the black velvet strip > under a tall hennin possibly help in securing the hennin? Does it provide > a comfort/cleanliness layer between the fur collar and the skin? And > perhaps most important, does it conceal the neckline of a supportive > underdress that would, otherwise, tend to slip into sight? Ooh! I like this idea! So the supportive undergown could have enough structure do actually do some supporting, then the black fill-in piece would go over that (which gives you some anchoring options as well--ties or pins?), then the gown. That would work. How do you think the front closure works on these gowns? You never see evidence of inner lacing rings and many of them seem to have a bit of overlap. >>P.S. And here are a few more outliers just for fun: >>1) Grimani Breviary 1490-1510: my favorite mix of styles! >>http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/zgothic/miniatur/1451-500/2netherl/05n_1450.jpg > > Watch out for this source! The artists very likely copied parts of some > images from the Tres Riches Heures Thanks for the heads-up. Yes, I've heard that (where..where??) but just love this picture--it's like an SCA event except EVERYONE has really good clothes. >>2) Hemesan: Woman weighing Gold - much later but interesting... >>http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/h/hemessen/jan/weighing.jpg > > Hemessan? A new name to me, but also a bit out of my usual period. And > "Woman"? Hah. When I look at this I think of a certain Jan Gossaert > painting of a girl holding an astrolabe -- Wow! Thanks for the "art historian detour"! That's good info. The Jan Gossaert image has long been a favorite of mine, mostly because of how it relates to Frech Hood construction, but I had never seen this Hemessan before. The only thing mitigating for it being a woman (well, besides some evidence of a bosom) is the fact that her veil is down, not up in a bag shape. But that's just a not-quite-informed feeling based on not quite enough images. > --Robin > in work avoidance mode Hey, on a Friday afternoon work avoidance is a mental wellness activity! Thanks for the comments and ideas! - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 16:08:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09L8tA2017923 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:08:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09L7C4S016709; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:07:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09L74qq065823; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:07:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09L71qq065770 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:07:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29523 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:35:16 -0600 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:35:16 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown In-Reply-To: <3FFF1104.6030902@uvm.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wrote: > > Maybe it also serves a practical function with this dress style -- e.g. > > does it keep it from slipping or sliding, just as the black velvet strip > > under a tall hennin possibly help in securing the hennin? Does it provide > > a comfort/cleanliness layer between the fur collar and the skin? And > > perhaps most important, does it conceal the neckline of a supportive > > underdress that would, otherwise, tend to slip into sight? Hope of the triple-e wrote: > Ooh! I like this idea! So the supportive undergown could have enough > structure do actually do some supporting, then the black fill-in piece > would go over that (which gives you some anchoring options as well--ties > or pins?), then the gown. Exactly. Pins are well-established by now for a purpose such as this. Later partlets tie under the arms, so that might be happening even this early, but it's not necessary to assume that. > That would work. How do you think the front closure works on these > gowns? You never see evidence of inner lacing rings and many of them > seem to have a bit of overlap. I assume you mean the overgowns, right? The overlap is, I think, easier to suss out from pictures than a lot of other options. I would assume there's a lacing in the overlapped part, connecting the wrong side of the outer side to the right side of the inner layer. If there's a supportive undergown, then the overgown fastening would only need to hold the dress closed, and wouldn't have much stress to pull it out of shape. And if it's heavy fabric and furlined, too, it would hold its shape without pulling or puckering at the lacings. (I would love evidence of hooks in this period, but I don't know of any documention for them before the mid-16th century or so. I'm quite willing to be enlightened. I'm creeping out of my period here.) That sort of construction would be a lot easier to manage than the presumed hidden lacings of earlier decades, and may have been an improvement on those. In many cases the overlap looks to be deliberately asymmetrical. It strikes me that such a construction would also make it easier for these overdresses to be made in the absence of the wearer (by a professional tailor) who could allow a reasonable overlap while cutting and then later finalize the position of the fastening during a final fitting. Hope -- were you at my Boston lecture? I thought I saw your name on the list and wanted to meet you; did I? (It's all a little foggy now.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 16:24:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09LO2A2017955 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:24:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09LNO4S018196; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:23:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09LNKqq076411; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:23:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09LNHqq076377 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:23:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104112.uvm.edu [132.198.104.112]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09LNGUT025481 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:23:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFF1BBC.7070002@uvm.edu> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 16:23:08 -0500 From: Hope Greeenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > I assume you mean the overgowns, right? The overlap is, I think, easier to > suss out from pictures than a lot of other options. I would assume there's > a lacing in the overlapped part, connecting the wrong side of the outer > side to the right side of the inner layer. Good. I'll give it a try--never had much luck with these things. > (I would love evidence of hooks in this period, but I don't know of any > documention for them before the mid-16th century or so. I'm quite willing > to be enlightened. I'm creeping out of my period here.) So would I! The closest I've ever come to anything that might, with a stretch, be construed, maybe, just maybe, as hooks is a Margaret, Marchioness of Dorsets, gown in a Holbein sketch: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/margaret.jpg But I think it's just wishful thinking on my part. > Hope -- were you at my Boston lecture? I thought I saw your name on the > list and wanted to meet you; did I? (It's all a little foggy now.) Yes, indeed, and enjoyed every minute, though traffic kept me from getting there on time. I was the one in the back with the laptop. I did ask you a quick question during one of the breaks about hems on extant garments--straight or curved. - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 16:39:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09LdeA2018004 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:39:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09LWt4S019119; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:32:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09LWqqq082867; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09LWpqq082847 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:32:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.186] (pm5-186.eos.net [205.133.149.186]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09LWjbR003235 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:32:46 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 16:33:31 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401090536.i095akqr000583@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: historical costumes for singers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you need these costumes for SCA events? Or are you SCA folks who want to sing together at non-SCA events, concerts, etc.? If the latter is true, then you might be interested in this idea. A couple of years ago I went to see the Baltimore Consort -- whom you MUST listen to if you haven't -- and the women wore calf-length dresses made out of stretch velvet, the kind of fabric used for Christmas dresses sold in stores. They wore bright jewel colors, the cut was just a simple hourglass shape (no princess seams or anything) and each one had different sleeve styles. It was a vaguely medieval look, but easy to care for and comfortable. Just an idea -- Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 17:50:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09MoaA2018640 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:50:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Mnp4S026794; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:49:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09Mnkqq034756; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:49:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20208.mail.yahoo.com (web20208.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i09Mniqq034735 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:49:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040109224944.92095.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 14:49:44 PST Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:49:44 -0800 (PST) From: Angela Kessler To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] aleskine fabric? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anybody heard of a fabric by that name? It's for sale in several colors here: http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/home/catalog_items.cfm?Query=aleskine It's 85% silk, 15% wool, in a heavy shantung weave. It looks intriguing, and $10/yd seems like a pretty good price. I'm wondering whether it might be appropriate for Tudor or 1860s ballgown (I'm thinking pagoda sleeves). Anybody worked with it before, or otherwise have opinions? Thanks- Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 18:34:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i09NYBA2018792 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 18:34:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09NXV4S000955; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:33:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09NXRTB062821; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:33:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09NXPTB062804 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:33:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Af684-00026k-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 15:33:24 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] aleskine fabric? Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:33:29 -0700 Message-ID: <000301c3d708$fcff8420$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20040109224944.92095.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bad Angela, Bad girl! For bringing this to my attention....I swore I was done buy fabric from anywhere except LA....but this looks fabulous..... I have a half and half wool/silk blend from the from Phoenix textiles that is to die for and great to work with, but have never heard of this stuff..... Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Angela Kessler Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 3:50 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] aleskine fabric? Has anybody heard of a fabric by that name? It's for sale in several colors here: http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/home/catalog_items.cfm?Query=aleskine It's 85% silk, 15% wool, in a heavy shantung weave. It looks intriguing, and $10/yd seems like a pretty good price. I'm wondering whether it might be appropriate for Tudor or 1860s ballgown (I'm thinking pagoda sleeves). Anybody worked with it before, or otherwise have opinions? Thanks- Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 19:36:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0A0aBA2018934 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 19:36:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A0ZC4S006253; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:35:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A0Z6TB096495; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:35:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net (razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A0Z3TB096465 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:35:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from madlystitching@earthlink.net) Received: from 209-165-46-231.jps.net ([209.165.46.231] helo=w7m1l6) by razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Af75i-0004ib-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 16:35:03 -0800 Message-ID: <004b01c3d711$6d566420$e72ea5d1@w7m1l6> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3FFE6C0A.5010102@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:33:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ELNK-Trace: 08dba192340bde6e1a6ab3b9b70940f894f5150ab1c16ac050a736d1df7ddf7441bc97d66e084cc16bc757aa2b161d78350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lovely Bit of work, but this is not my period. Why does it have matching sleeves? Were the under sleeves of some form? Stephen "I don't suffer from insanity! I fact I rather enjoy it!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 12:53 AM Subject: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay > Hi, > > This is a very nice 18th century corset. There is no way I could affort > it but I found it very interesting to look at the pictures. > Interesting to see those bun rolls attached to the corset. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2881190466&category=48864 > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 19:38:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0A0clA2018939 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 19:38:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09N984S028626; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:09:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09N97qq047680; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:09:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09N8rqq047510 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:08:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from margo@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14b28.directcon.net [209.79.208.28]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i09NFE608005; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:15:14 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040109145950.00dc5260@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 14:59:50 -0800 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... In-Reply-To: <3FFE33C9.7090103@ripco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:53 PM 01/08/2004 -0600, zski wrote: >I have a friend with MS, who has recently learned she will soon need a >powered wheelchair or scooter to get around. > >She enjoys attending Renaissance Faires, and is trying to figure out >what sorts of things she can wear there will look good while seated. Wendy, Linda Underhill, who for many years taught acting, singing, and general How To Be A Renaissance Person to a generation of California Faire actors, uses a scooter. She wears loose gowns (also known as ropas or Spanish Surcoats) trimmed to be simple or sumptuous, depending on the character she's playing. She's also a very large woman. She looks comfortable and elegant. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 19:39:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0A0ddA2018943 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 19:39:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09N8t4S028598; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:08:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09N8pqq047493; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:08:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09N8oqq047475 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:08:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from margo@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14b28.directcon.net [209.79.208.28]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i09NFA607998; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:15:10 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040109143623.00dcf6d0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 14:36:23 -0800 To: Historical Costume , From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers In-Reply-To: <007f01c3d621$f83518c0$9a02a8c0@sookeqr1neuk4p> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:59 AM 01/08/2004 -0800, Suzanne Manley wrote: Anyway, I'm >looking for some costume ideas for us; in particular, what style of costume >would be reasonably compatible with the era of the music we're singing >(mostly 15th-17th C, Italian/English/Latin and some plainsong) and that >would also be compatible with the requirements of singing(!). So no >probably corsets or boning, unless it can be 'faked' so we can still get a >really good lungful of air... personally I need about three inches of ease >at the bottom of my rib cage for a full breath. > I sing in a corset, and actually prefer to do so, as it seems to help me remember to stand properly and to support my diaphragm. But I don't lace tightly, no more than 1-2" compression if any. If that doesn't work, consider a trick I've seen on performance corsets: Lace it with elastic! The thing I can't stand to wear while singing is any headress that covers my ears. I look great in a French Hood, but you won't see me in one when I'm going to sing, instead I wear my hair in a net, pinned on so that the band is behind my ears, and top it with a cap. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 19:40:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0A0eVA2018946 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 19:40:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09N934S028619; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09N93qq047619; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:09:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i09N8oqq047484 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:08:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from margo@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14b28.directcon.net [209.79.208.28]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i09NFA607998; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:15:10 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040109143623.00dcf6d0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 14:36:23 -0800 To: Historical Costume , From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers In-Reply-To: <007f01c3d621$f83518c0$9a02a8c0@sookeqr1neuk4p> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:59 AM 01/08/2004 -0800, Suzanne Manley wrote: Anyway, I'm >looking for some costume ideas for us; in particular, what style of costume >would be reasonably compatible with the era of the music we're singing >(mostly 15th-17th C, Italian/English/Latin and some plainsong) and that >would also be compatible with the requirements of singing(!). So no >probably corsets or boning, unless it can be 'faked' so we can still get a >really good lungful of air... personally I need about three inches of ease >at the bottom of my rib cage for a full breath. > I sing in a corset, and actually prefer to do so, as it seems to help me remember to stand properly and to support my diaphragm. But I don't lace tightly, no more than 1-2" compression if any. If that doesn't work, consider a trick I've seen on performance corsets: Lace it with elastic! The thing I can't stand to wear while singing is any headress that covers my ears. I look great in a French Hood, but you won't see me in one when I'm going to sing, instead I wear my hair in a net, pinned on so that the band is behind my ears, and top it with a cap. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 19:52:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0A0qVA2018978 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 19:52:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A0pm4S007522; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:51:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A0plTB004478; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:51:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail3.mdx.safepages.com (mail3.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A0piTB004465 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:51:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id B28A689097; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:51:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust158.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.158]) by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 306F689066 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:51:42 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <057401c3d714$0bd322d0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401091936.i09JaAb14744@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 18:52:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My sympathies to your friend; my mother has MS as well. (She was diagnosed 15 years ago, and she's still active enough that she can wear me out! She may have an internal medicine drip installed and have to do all her outings from a wheel chair, but when she gets home she sews, restores antique furniture, teaches herself high-level computer maintenance, does calligraphy, etcetcetc... sounds like your friend might be going down the same path, and yay for her.) For gowns, I'd suggest nothing that's tightly fitted below the ribcage; fabric stress wrinkles digging into your belly for hours can get uncomfortable. Fabric with a bit of stretch to it is a big help, as well--that way, if she's sitting on her dress just wrong and she needs to reach over THERE, the fabric will allow her rather than binding her an inch or two out of reach. (It sounds like a little thing, but range of motion makes a really big difference.) For the skirt problem, she might want to sew in a short, color-matched lace to each side seam of her skirt (or further back, or further forward, depending on how full the skirt is) a couple inches below the knee. While seated, she can pull the laces together and tie them, keeping the skirt all bundled together at the bottom; if she wants to get up, she unties the laces and poof, the skirt looks pretty much normal, except for the cats climbing up it to bat at the laces. AVOID CORSETS. Circulation and muscle tone are really important for MS patients, and as much as I love corsets, they ain't gonna help with those. Even a soft, corded corset would be problematic, and for it to really be right for sitting long-term, it would have to be all wrong for standing up. -E (please pardon me if this was incoherent. I have the flu and my brain is in the wastebasket downstairs somewhere.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 23:16:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0A4GLA2019368 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 23:16:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A4FJ4S027074; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:15:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A4EvTB096234; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:14:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A4EuTB096176 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:14:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id 6.10d.2eac08a6 (4529) for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 23:14:44 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <10d.2eac08a6.2d30d634@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 23:14:44 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/9/2004 7:36:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, madlystitching@earthlink.net writes: > Lovely Bit of work, but this is not my period. Why does it have matching > sleeves? Were the under sleeves of some form? > > A corset covered in expensive fabric like this one was more than likely worn for "undress"...or around the house, suitable to accept guests in...and without the sleeves, under a gown. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 9 23:29:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0A4TLA2019401 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 23:29:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A4Sk4S027832; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:28:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A4SkTB001564; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:28:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A4SiTB001549 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:28:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HR9006WOB3VV1@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 20:28:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 20:25:45 -0800 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040109191903.0246a940@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: Subject: [h-cost] to peascod or not, 1588 men's doublet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a questions I keep going back and forth on in my mind. I am making a late 1580s (1588) doublet and venetians for my husband, and I want to be as close to the best fashion as possible. Peascod bellies are the style. However, my husband already has enough girth in his waist area already. I am wondering if I should make the doublet with additional padding, to make his large belly even larger. It is hard to determine on the portraits I have seen if a larger man wore a peascod doublet, as most men of that age are thin and young, and I know it is the style of the times. The one portrait of a not-so young looking man is Sir Christopher Hatton http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/image.mhtml?image_id=11 It is identified as having a slight peascod belly. According to an online bio of the man (http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Bios/ChristopherHatton.htm), he would be 48 in 1588, and hence a better subject for comparison than a younger man, such as "A Youth Leaning Against a Tree Among Roses" by Hilliard. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/image.mhtml?image_id=16 Anyway, to make a long story short, should I go ahead and pad (lightly or to that funny point) the doublet for 1588 fashion's sake, or should I let his natural shape remain unpadded. Any thoughts, research, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 00:56:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0A5uBA2019624 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:56:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A5tY4S002205; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 22:55:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A5tVTB035338; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 22:55:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from siscom.net (counterstrike.siscom.net [209.251.2.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0A5tSTB035322 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 22:55:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drea@nospam) Received: from shell.siscom.net (unverified [209.251.2.80]) by siscom.net (BoogerMAIL) with ESMTP id 5023325 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:54:47 -0500 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:55:22 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay In-Reply-To: <10d.2eac08a6.2d30d634@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040110005407.R27935@shell.siscom.net> References: <10d.2eac08a6.2d30d634@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So what would you consider the date on this? The height of the back waistline and the shape of the tabs would lead me to suspect a 1770s or later corset...but the 18th c. isn't my forte. Any opinions? Drea On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/9/2004 7:36:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, > madlystitching@earthlink.net writes: > > > Lovely Bit of work, but this is not my period. Why does it have matching > > sleeves? Were the under sleeves of some form? > > > > > > A corset covered in expensive fabric like this one was more than likely worn > for "undress"...or around the house, suitable to accept guests in...and > without the sleeves, under a gown. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 08:37:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0ADboA2014247 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 08:37:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ADb74S023698; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:37:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ADb2TB008705; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:37:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ADb0TB008691 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:37:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a256.in-tch.com [66.62.107.56]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0ADF4N19352 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:15:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <400000AA.5010009@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:39:54 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay References: <10d.2eac08a6.2d30d634@aol.com> <20040110005407.R27935@shell.siscom.net> In-Reply-To: <20040110005407.R27935@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Geez, where's Bjarne when you need him? Could it be compared to the one in the Kyoto book by someone who has the book? (i.e., *not* me) --sue, up early cooking for an SCA feast OCC: I'm cooking for our annual A&S competition, and my entry for the competition is a skein of the yarn I'm spinning, with the eventual aim of having enough yarn to weave my own gown, using the Yorvik BLT.... (okay, so it's a stretch, but it's *sorta* costume related! ;o) Drea Leed wrote: > So what would you consider the date on this? The height of the back > waistline and the shape of the tabs would lead me to suspect a 1770s or > later corset...but the 18th c. isn't my forte. Any opinions? > > Drea > > On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > >>In a message dated 1/9/2004 7:36:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>madlystitching@earthlink.net writes: >> >> >>>Lovely Bit of work, but this is not my period. Why does it have matching >>>sleeves? Were the under sleeves of some form? >>> >>> >> >>A corset covered in expensive fabric like this one was more than likely worn >>for "undress"...or around the house, suitable to accept guests in...and >>without the sleeves, under a gown. >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 09:05:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0AE5RA2014294 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 09:05:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AE4r4S025027; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:04:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AE4qTB019051; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:04:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AE4cTB018933 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:04:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@agesofelegance.co.uk) Received: from Imedia5043 ([81.103.219.66]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20040110140436.OHLO6084.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@Imedia5043> for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:04:36 +0000 Message-ID: <012701c3d782$ab08d930$b4456551@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <10d.2eac08a6.2d30d634@aol.com><20040110005407.R27935@shell.siscom.net> <400000AA.5010009@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:04:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO it's mid century and is similar to the one in teh Kyoto book I am currently making we have been discussing it on the 18thc list Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > Drea Leed wrote: > > > So what would you consider the date on this? The height of the back > > waistline and the shape of the tabs would lead me to suspect a 1770s or > > later corset...but the 18th c. isn't my forte. Any opinions? > > > > Drea > > > > On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > > > > >>In a message dated 1/9/2004 7:36:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >>madlystitching@earthlink.net writes: > >> > >> > >>>Lovely Bit of work, but this is not my period. Why does it have matching > >>>sleeves? Were the under sleeves of some form? > >>> > >>> > >> > >>A corset covered in expensive fabric like this one was more than likely worn > >>for "undress"...or around the house, suitable to accept guests in...and > >>without the sleeves, under a gown. > >>_______________________________________________ > >>h-costume mailing list > >>h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 09:06:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0AE6TA2014300 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 09:06:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AE4e4S025009; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:04:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AE4dTB018949; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:04:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AE4bTB018866 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:04:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0904.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.137]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F395BBEEF8 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:04:29 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <400007EA.80208@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:10:50 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset on eBay References: <10d.2eac08a6.2d30d634@aol.com> <20040110005407.R27935@shell.siscom.net> <400000AA.5010009@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I have the book and it looks like the corset from1760. Greetings, Deredere Sue Clemenger wrote: > Geez, where's Bjarne when you need him? > Could it be compared to the one in the Kyoto book by someone who has > the book? (i.e., *not* me) > --sue, up early cooking for an SCA feast > OCC: I'm cooking for our annual A&S competition, and my entry for the > competition is a skein of the yarn I'm spinning, with the eventual aim > of having enough yarn to weave my own gown, using the Yorvik BLT.... > (okay, so it's a stretch, but it's *sorta* costume related! ;o) > > Drea Leed wrote: > >> So what would you consider the date on this? The height of the back >> waistline and the shape of the tabs would lead me to suspect a 1770s or >> later corset...but the 18th c. isn't my forte. Any opinions? >> >> Drea >> >> On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >> >> >>> In a message dated 1/9/2004 7:36:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>> madlystitching@earthlink.net writes: >>> >>> >>>> Lovely Bit of work, but this is not my period. Why does it have >>>> matching >>>> sleeves? Were the under sleeves of some form? >>>> >>>> >>> >>> A corset covered in expensive fabric like this one was more than >>> likely worn >>> for "undress"...or around the house, suitable to accept guests in...and >>> without the sleeves, under a gown. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 09:56:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0AEugA2014386 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 09:56:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AEu34S027319; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:56:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AEtwTB038555; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:55:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AEtvTB038546 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:55:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-41-080.jps.net ([209.165.41.80] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AfKWq-0003Na-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:55:57 -0800 Message-ID: <002001c3d78b$066f76a0$5029a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040109224944.92095.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] aleskine fabric? Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:04:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very nice!!! I don't know how great mixed blends are for early Tudor but definetly by the mid to late 16th century as fabrics known as "New Draperies" were being produced. Lighter with mixed blends such as wool and silk. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Kessler" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 2:49 PM Subject: [h-cost] aleskine fabric? > Has anybody heard of a fabric by that name? It's for > sale in several colors here: > http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/home/catalog_items.cfm?Query=aleskine > > It's 85% silk, 15% wool, in a heavy shantung weave. > It looks intriguing, and $10/yd seems like a pretty > good price. I'm wondering whether it might be > appropriate for Tudor or 1860s ballgown (I'm thinking > pagoda sleeves). Anybody worked with it before, or > otherwise have opinions? > > Thanks- > Angela > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 12:12:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0AHCHA2014770 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:12:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AHBQ4S004870; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:11:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AHBLTB095375; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:11:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AHBITB095350 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:11:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03597 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:39:35 -0600 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:39:35 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown In-Reply-To: <3FFF1BBC.7070002@uvm.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Hope Greeenberg wrote: > So would I! The closest I've ever come to anything that might, with a > stretch, be construed, maybe, just maybe, as hooks is a Margaret, > Marchioness of Dorsets, gown in a Holbein sketch: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/margaret.jpg > But I think it's just wishful thinking on my part. Odd, this isn't in any of my four Holbein books, though I have loads of his sketches. I'd guess these are lacing rings, as some of the other sketches show lacing in this position. And the little bumps do look offset here. Probably too small for hooks in any case. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 12:50:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0AHoMA2014905 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:50:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AHni4S007386; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:49:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AHngTB012649; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:49:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AHnfTB012641 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:49:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.113] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8FC911D00DA; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:40:12 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c3d7a2$d321fe40$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:54:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More ethnic stuff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0AHoMA2014905 Status: RO For Kathy Hoover and others interested in ethnic costume, here is another list of books and other material in pursuit of costume from my collection. These were gleaned from flea markets and from my traveling daughters. How to Wrap your Pareu Tahiti-M&R Stieher Moorea Ethnic Costume-Lois Ericson and Diane Ericson. Clothing Designs and Techniques with an International Inspiration(1979) Norwegian Immigrant Clothing and Textiles-Edited by Catherine C.Cole. Most of this research was garnered from the upper Peninsular USA. Indonesian Women's Costume-Judi Achjadi. Bilingual presentation of regional costumes of Indonesia Patterns of Ancient Egyptian Clothing-Gillian Vogelsang-Eastwood Puku Suomessa-1750/1900ľ Sirkka Kopisto and Pirkko Sihvo. Most of this book features modern 18th 19th Century clothing of Western modes Slaskie StroieLuaouie (Folk Costume of Selsia and the Regions of the Katowice Province) Barbara Bazielich- Book is in a native language, but lots of pictures and line drawings for pattern making. Narodne Nosnje Jugoslavie-Vladimir Kirin- Portfolio of costumes. Wonderful detai;les, but area notes on the back of each plate. Klederdracten-C Nieuwhoff, W Diepraam, C Oorthuys-Regional headgear of the Low Lands. Wonderful lace, lots of great details of folk in national dress. Also has pictures of step by step donning of the complicated head gear arrangements..I have wondered if some of the base steps of clothing the head have more ancient roots. Another volume is the presentation of Japanese clothing (Title?) that has the l layout for a variety of japanese garments , including footwear. 40 Greek Costumes from the Dora Stratou Collection. Another contemporary collection of the traditional Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 12:54:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0AHsnA2014926 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:54:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AHsF4S007680; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:54:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AHsFTB014486; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:54:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AHsDTB014455 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:54:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004011017540801600nr5ece>; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:54:08 +0000 Message-ID: <40003C3F.2020802@fenris.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 09:54:07 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: corset woes, was Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers References: <3FFE1BE8.6050402@fenris.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20040108145418.00b0b628@64.87.54.245> <3FFE1BE8.6050402@fenris.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20040109003249.01ede478@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040109003249.01ede478@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > At 08:46 PM 1/8/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >> Of course, now my bust is not supported: keeps slithering down inside >> the front. >> Phoo. >> >> liz young > > > > Try tacking in a rolled sausage where your breasts would sit on top of > them. It was an old trick to give breast more "high cleavage" than > normal, especially for smaller breasted ladies. One friend would use > old gym socks (cleaned), another used bra paddings or shoulder pads, > and I seem to recall The Brown Book just suggesting a small roll > tacked into place being helpful. > > Just a thought. Do what is best for your needs, corset or otherwise. > It was not too awful, wearing the whole ensemble last night. I discovered that the shoulder straps of the corset are too long, which can be fixed. And that I need to do yet more remodeling on the dress so it will work better with this particular corset. I will add the padded roll in the future. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 17:23:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0AMNnA2015777 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:23:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AMMM4S024788; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:22:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AMMHTB036494; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:22:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AMMFTB036467 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:22:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05632 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:50:35 -0600 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:50:35 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Netherton lecture day, Springfield IL 3/13/04 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Forwarding to this list on behalf of the event planner. Please feel free to repost to other lists. Reservations should go to Mary Conrad (address below), not to me. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 13:56:44 -0800 (PST) From: Mary Conrad The Shire of Swordcliffe, in conjunction with the student body of the University of Illinois-Springfield, presents: Women's Costume in the 14th & 15th Centuries -- an all-day seminar with Robin Netherton, historic clothing researcher. Ms. Netherton will be lecturing on feminine clothing styles of the 14th and 15th centuries. Ms. Netherton will present five lectures: The Gothic Fitted Dress The Greenland Gored Gown Will the Real Sideless Surcote Please Stand Up? The 15th-Century V-Neck Gown The Problem of Women's Heraldic Dress When: Saturday, March 13, 2004 Site: Brookens Auditorium, University of Illinois, Springfield IL One University Plaza Springfield, IL 62703 Directions: Please use the UIS link to find your best directions to the site: http://www.uis.edu/maps/uismap.htm Use parking lot B and enter Brookens Library at any door. Take the elevator (or stairs) to the 1st floor - turn to your right and follow the hallway to our registration area. Times: Site opens 8:30 AM for a continental breakfast (beverages and muffins). Lectures begin at approximately 9:30 AM. Site closes 6:00 PM; a locally-based post-event social gathering to be announced and publicized on the sponsoring groups website, see below for links. Fees: This is a FREE seminar presented by All Things Medieval, the student interest group on campus. The auditorium seats 200 and seating is on a "first-come, first-served" basis, so please contact the event organizer to reserve a seat. This will also help ensure there is an adequate supply of muffins available. Listing of Activities: This is a day of lectures presented in a modern-era atmosphere. While co-sponsored by the local SCA group, period attire is not required to attend the seminars. Please come dressed for a day of education and friendly hanging-out. Other Notes: No childcare is provided. The site is fully handicap accessible. Website for event can be linked to by going to http://www.midrealm.org and selecting "Calendar of Events" under the heading "What's Happening". Go to March 13th, select the event listing and (by Jan 15, 2004) it should hyperlink you to the website for the event. Event Organizer: Mary Conrad (SCA / Baroness Anntionette Rose) c/o: Shire of Swordcliffe / Shane Guernsey 612 St. Mary's Avenue, Springfield IL 62702 Autocrat phone: 217-898-6509 (cell phone, preferred hours for contact are after 9PM CST or at reasonable hours between 7PM Fridays & 7AM Mondays -- gotta love the free minutes thing!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 18:03:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0AN3nA2015917 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:03:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AN3E4S027179; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 16:03:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AN3DTB054310; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 16:03:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0AN3BTB054295 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 16:03:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AfS8L-000F0W-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 23:03:09 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 23:02:57 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] to peascod or not, 1588 men's doublet References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040109191903.0246a940@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040109191903.0246a940@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My husband also has "more of a keg than a six-pack", and I would say Sir Christopher Hatton, in his doublet, looks about the same shape as my husband, unpadded. It makes me wonder if perhaps this is the original intention of the (unpointed) peascod shape, to make a man look well-fed? When we went back to an open day at Andrew's old school, one of his teachers said he was looking "prosperous" :-) Jean Kimiko Small wrote >I have a questions I keep going back and forth on in my mind. > >I am making a late 1580s (1588) doublet and venetians for my husband, >and I want to be as close to the best fashion as possible. Peascod >bellies are the style. However, my husband already has enough girth in >his waist area already. I am wondering if I should make the doublet >with additional padding, to make his large belly even larger. > >It is hard to determine on the portraits I have seen if a larger man >wore a peascod doublet, as most men of that age are thin and young, and >I know it is the style of the times. > >The one portrait of a not-so young looking man is Sir Christopher Hatton >http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/image.mhtml?image_id=11 >It is identified as having a slight peascod belly. > >According to an online bio of the man >(http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Bios/ChristopherHatton.htm), he would be >48 in 1588, and hence a better subject for comparison than a younger >man, such as "A Youth Leaning Against a Tree Among Roses" by Hilliard. >http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/image.mhtml?image_id=16 > >Anyway, to make a long story short, should I go ahead and pad (lightly >or to that funny point) the doublet for 1588 fashion's sake, or should >I let his natural shape remain unpadded. Any thoughts, research, or >suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > >Kimiko > >Kimiko Small >Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother >"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > >Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild >Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery >http://www.costumegallery.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 18:31:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0ANV4A2015997 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:31:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ANUP4S029006; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 16:30:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ANUMTB066764; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 16:30:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ANUJTB066688 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 16:30:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([24.192.99.19]) by fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040110232907.XOGH337742.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:29:07 -0500 Message-ID: <008401c3d7d1$b78ca390$1363c018@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: movies & canada Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:30:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.192.99.19] using ID at Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:29:07 -0500 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- Catching up on some e-mail... > So my question is, what do I have? Is this a pirated film? Is it a > remaindered film from a batch of low-cost but legitimate pressings? Do > movies generally come out in more than one format -- one with extras and > cheaper ones without? Or do films have different distributors in different > countries, each of which can put out videos and DVDs? > > And what is a 14A rating? You definitely have a Canadian-issued copy. Lion's Gate is a fairly significant movie distributor/producer up here in Canada. They're based out of Vancouver (in fact, SCA folks from out that way might know "Lion's Gate" as the name of an SCA group :-) Canada also uses a different rating system than the US, and as someone guessed, 14A is a little like PG13. One big difference is that the US R is AA (Adult Accompaniment) in Canada, where R is like the little used NC17 (no children under 17) in the States. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 18:56:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0ANuOA2016084 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:56:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ANtm4S000798; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 16:55:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ANtkTB077724; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 16:55:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ANtiTB077692 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 16:55:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from castle8@earthlink.net) Received: from user-33qt7id.cable.mindspring.com ([199.174.158.77] helo=castlebooks) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AfSxD-0006xS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:55:43 -0800 Message-ID: <001d01c3d7d5$44c51b40$4d9eaec7@castlebooks> From: "Janet Davis" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:55:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You might want to check out the diptych with the Virgiin and 3 donors by the Master of the Legend of St. Ursula at this link: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/m/master/ursula/ . It looks to me that the older woman has a straight pin holding the edges of her black filler together. Personally, I think those black fillers were worn partly for modesty and mostly for warmth. They are more common on older ladies - those who are more interested in practical rather than fashionable or sexy. That Burgundian neckline can feel a bit drafty at a central-heated modern event site and if your castle was chilly enough that you wanted a fur-lined gown, I bet it could be fairly uncomfortable. Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 19:15:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0B0FkA2016276 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 19:15:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B0E14S001924; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B0E0TB085308; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:14:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B0DwTB085291 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:13:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06537 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 19:42:18 -0600 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 19:42:18 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown In-Reply-To: <001d01c3d7d5$44c51b40$4d9eaec7@castlebooks> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 10 Jan 2004, Janet Davis wrote: > You might want to check out the diptych with the Virgiin and 3 donors by the > Master of the Legend of St. Ursula at this link: > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/m/master/ursula/ . > > It looks to me that the older woman has a straight pin holding the edges of > her black filler together. Yep. > Personally, I think those black fillers were worn partly for modesty > and mostly for warmth. They are more common on older ladies - those > who are more interested in practical rather than fashionable or sexy. The younger woman has one too, but not closed up. And it appears to lie over yet another scarf-thing, in a transparent silk. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 10 23:00:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0B40LA2018147 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 23:00:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B3xb4S016010; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 20:59:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B3xWTB081207; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 20:59:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from blondie.gower.net (blondie.gower.net [205.230.30.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B3xUTC081159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 20:59:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vbetts@gower.net) Received: from gower.net (user-30.annex-03.tyler.tx.gower.net [208.218.191.127]) by blondie.gower.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0B3xLu50085 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:59:21 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from vbetts@gower.net) Message-ID: <4000C9F8.32C222FC@gower.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:58:48 -0600 From: Vicki Betts X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1880s skirt construction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am trying to put together an 1880s outfit, and it is outside of my usual time frame. I will be using the Truly Victorian 1885 Bustle Cuirass Bodice (long sleeve, high neck), and the 1885 4-gore underskirt with the pouf back, out of midnight blue bengaline and midnight blue voided velvet in a floral pattern, all over the Truly Victorian Petticoat with Wire Bustle. The idea for the skirt is to have a voided floral velvet panel down the front, then long kilt pleats of the bengaline on either side of that, then the back with the pouf also the bengaline. The question comes on construction. As I understand it, first you make a basic skirt out of a sturdy but cheaper fabric. What sort of fabric? Do I stitch the fashion fabric directly to that? Is there any extra reinforcement around the hem? How do I keep the long kilt pleats pleated--are they tacked down along the edge, or stitched down? Should there be short kilt pleats under any part of the skirt? Just the front velvet? Any other key points to 1880s skirt that set it apart and make it work? Any key books or articles I should see before I plunge right in? I have some of the basic 19th century sources, but I do not have one that is strictly 1880s. Thanks, Vicki Betts vbetts@gower.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 00:14:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0B5EJA2018734 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:14:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B5Da4S019668; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 22:13:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B5DYTB010429; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 22:13:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B5DXTB010418 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 22:13:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from casamai@sbcglobal.net) Received: from casamai (adsl-65-69-46-245.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net [65.69.46.245]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0B5DVjC005212 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:13:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000401c3d801$bdb18300$3ce3fea9@sbcglobal.net> From: "Bruce & Nora Mai" To: "Historical Costume" References: <74AB0F78-E4D6-11D7-A9F6-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 23:14:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Somewhat novice needs assistance X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi ho: Since you folks are far more knowledgable than I am than I'll ever be, I need some help. I would like to find the original source painting for a drawing I've seen in "The Mode in Costume". In the second and expanded edition we have, on page 146, in the Louis XIII era illustrations, there's a Cavalier gentleman from the 1630s who's holding a cape over his left arm and his hat in the right. The figure is facing straight out of the frame. Can anyone tell me where I can find the original, if there is one, because so far, I can't find it in any of our books. If there's a similar outfit somewhere, I'd like to look at it too. Thanks! Bruce _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 02:23:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0B7NCA2020088 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 02:23:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B7MZ4S025400; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:22:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B7MVTB056504; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:22:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B7MSTB056488 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:22:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRB00AFPDTEKA@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 23:22:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 23:19:35 -0800 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040110231830.025b8bb0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: Subject: [h-cost] another eBay book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all I know some of you have spoken about the Book of Hours for research purposes. Well, there is one available on eBay, if anyone is interested. BOOK OF HOURS 15th Century French Illuminated http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3579254038&category=7703&rd=1 Good luck! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 02:30:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0B7UVA2020168 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 02:30:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B7Tt4S025606; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:29:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B7TsTB058816; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:29:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B7TqTB058804 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:29:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRB00AJ2E5RZQ@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 23:29:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 23:27:01 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] to peascod or not, 1588 men's doublet In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040110232401.025bb4a8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040109191903.0246a940@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20040109191903.0246a940@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:02 PM 1/10/2004 +0000, you wrote: >My husband also has "more of a keg than a six-pack", and I would say Sir >Christopher Hatton, in his doublet, looks about the same shape as my >husband, unpadded. It makes me wonder if perhaps this is the original >intention of the (unpointed) peascod shape, to make a man look well-fed? >When we went back to an open day at Andrew's old school, one of his >teachers said he was looking "prosperous" :-) > >Jean Hi Jean, Well my husband definitely would look "prosperous" then. I am thinking of going unpadded for now, and if he should continue to lose the weight (and the natural padding) to add in padding at that time. Not that I am looking forward to unpicking seams, but I don't see the point of additional padding when nature has already granted him some. But that is fighting with the desire to be as true to period fashion as I can. Hence the going round and round on what to do in my mind, and postponing the work I need to be doing on his doublet. Anyway, thanks Jean for your comment. I appreciate it. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 02:36:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0B7acA2020413 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 02:36:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B7a24S025832; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B7a0TB061466; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:36:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail3.mdx.safepages.com (mail3.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0B7ZxTB061448 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:35:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id BD33189101; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:35:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust224.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.224]) by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F71A890FE for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:35:56 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 01:36:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yay! My favorite style of gown. I do believe that the black thing at the neck is a partlet, or at least is _sometimes_ a partlet. However, the evidence isn't exactly overwhelming in either direction. [Note: nearly all images have been cropped to save space; if you want the full image, I'll be happy to provide it. Also, apologies if I duplicated images already posted--I tried to avoid it, but ohwell.] By the way, they're not all black: http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/003r.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/026r.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/041r.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/151v.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/campbellp147a.jpg although black does seem to be most common, especially ~1495-1510. Other than black and white, I haven't seen any that I was sure was both the same article of clothing, and actually that color--in one, it's russet, but the woman is bending over and it's not clear what the necklines are doing; in another it looks blue, but the illumination isn't in the best shape and it could be wierdly faded black; and so on. There are many paintings that show a different colored under-dress with the black (or white) thing: [see 1-4 above] http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1485-90dutch.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/__hr_Diana and Hunters.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/107r.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1500cana_mau.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1515bruges.jpg There are, however, many paintings that show the black thing paired with a black under-dress: http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1500david1.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1505-1510gdavidcatherine.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/ainsworthgdp74.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/ainsworthgdp123.jpg The black, white, and gold color code for donors is pretty rigid at this time, so those don't necessarily prove a connection. However, the Gerard David paintings are worth examining closely. On the first two, if you look at the edges of the sleeve cuff and of the black thing, you see white peeking around them, as though the black material is lined with white. In the St. Catherine painting, GD is obviously suggesting a whole lot of luxury, with his excessive use of the ermine lining. Just because both the black thing and the under-dress cuffs are lined with ermine, that doesn't mean that they're of a piece: _everything_ here is lined with ermine, except for the belt. In the second, the white peeking out at the sleeve looks less like lining, and more like a bit of chemise, which is the kind of thing GD does show; again, no real connection need exist. If the black thing and the black under-dress are of a piece, there IS a concurrent style that could fit the bill: http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1498magdalen.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1495-1505unicornkilleddet3.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/230r.jpg This style folds over at the front, almost like a bathrobe--in some cases it folds over by several inches, and worn under a square-necked gown would provide the desired effect. In this painting, you see this style _worn over_ what may be a black thing (which is worn over a third questionable thing, probably more scarf-like in the older style): http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1500cana_mat.jpg Unfortunately, the detail just isn't clear enough to draw many conclusions. You can't tell if the inner black thing folds over itself (as a partlet/bathrobe dress might) or if it is joined to the other side (as with other under-dresses). So why do I think it's a partlet, at least most or part of the time? First, the differently colored under-dresses strongly suggest that the black thing is a separate garment, at least in some cases. Second, the precedent is there; all those cute filmy scarves tucked into the neckline under square-necked, 'Burgundian', and other styles of gown are almost certainly separate. Third, the neckline is very high in back, which is not seen with any of the under-dress styles of the time, nor in the bathrobe or other oute rwear styles. With good reason; a neckline that high doesn't really work on a full gown--it's not very comfortable, and it messes with the fit--but it does work on a light, unseamed (apart from hems, etc) piece of cloth shaped in such a way that it just folds into place when you drape it over your shoulders. And fourth, it's just plain practical, because you can throw it over any under-dress, and suddenly that under-dress works with your nice new square-necked gown. Let's say little Miss 1503 has a nice red square-necked dress she wants to wear. It would look lovely with a green under-dress, but drat! her only green gown has a round neckline, which would look just silly under the square neckline. Well, no matter, she can just tuck the partlet in place and boom, problem solved. Or she wants to wear a colorful under-dress, but oh dear... black is the fashionable color for peeping out from under the neckline. Welp, no problem, because she can have both. Or she wants something kind of fancy showing at the neckline, but yeek, it would cost too much to make a whole under-dress that fancy. No problem again, because for half the cost she could make herself half a dozen fancy partlets, and look twelve times as rich. This is the (rough, not to scale) pattern I use for my partlets: http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/partlet.gif Because of the slope of my shoulders, the two front sides cross over a few inches below the neckline of my outer dress; the triangular part at back is because so many of the over-dresses I wear it with have a triangular neckline at the back, and this uses the least amount of cloth while assuring complete coverage. The front pieces are a bit on the wide side, because the square neck can get a bit wide in some years, so again, assuring full coverage; it may be less accurate, but it makes it so I can wear the thing with more garments. The neckline at back falls exactly like in the illustrations; high, but lying flat rather than wrinkling like a scarf. Phew. Now, fastenings. I've yet to find anything that indicates one way or another what fastenings were used on square-necked gowns of this specific style, but there are some clues, and there are plenty of indications of the fastenings used on other garments at the time. When the garment fastens at the front, you see either an overlap: http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/elizabeth_york_1500-03.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1500cana_mas.jpg or you see the two edges meet, presumably over a hidden fastening: http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/2204254.bishop.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/trivick02.jpg The placement of the trim sometimes helps to make it clear which is going on; in these, the trim goes along each edge of the opening, making it clear that there's no overlap: http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/norris01.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1507-8massysflem.jpg So lacking solid information, I considered what type of fastenings shown in other paintings might be used to create these effects? Well, sometimes lacing rings were mounted on the inside; these would give the effect of the two edges close together. Sometimes hooks and eyes were used; these could produce either effect. Buttons probably wouldn't have been hidden, and even if they wanted to hide them, their buttons didn't really lend themselves to being hidden. They probably adapted the closure to the individual dress: the overlapped closing would be slightly more secure, especially if they were wearing nothing but a chemise underneath (as with, say, a very heavy fur-lined gown); two edges meeting would provide nice clean lines and a mostly hidden closure, or a perfectly centered place to add trim (especially in more Germanic areas!). I generally use lacing rings for the two-edges-meeting closure (well, honestly, most of the time I wind up having to use the eye part of hooks and eyes, since I can so rarely find good lacing rings. Anyone have a good source for a bulk order of 1/4"-3/8" solid rings with smooth insides?) and hooks and eyes for the overlapping closure. For extra security on the hooks and eyes, I alternate which edge gets the hook and which gets the eye, which is a very old trick (but I'm not sure it's _quite_ 15th/early 16thC). BTW, Fouquet, always one to throw the monkey wrench in, shows some hooks and eyes in 1442: <> Broken hooks and eyes were found on hook tabs used to hold up hose, though from what little I've heard of the find (Winchester, I think?), it wasn't possible to determine their date. However, if they're holding up hose, that gives us at least a clue. I believe Gerry Embleton, curator of the armour museum in Grandson, has some information on the use of hooks and eyes, by men at least; I've heard that he, too, has traced them at least as far back as 1440. I have no idea if this is based on that same painting or on artifacts; however, I do know that a version of hooks and eyes were used on Imperial Roman armor, so perhaps that use persisted in armor and related garments. -E 'flu is boring' House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 09:17:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0BEHVA2001748 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:17:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BEGK4S014977; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:16:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BEFdTB006251; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:15:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BEFbTB006232 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:15:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.108] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A84E8E1E0140; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:06:06 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c3d84e$15681fe0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4000C9F8.32C222FC@gower.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1880s skirt construction Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:20:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Vickie, I have two or three skirts of this period. From them, I have gleaned the following. The foundation is of a sturdy fabric that is similar to polished cotton or chintz by weight. This foundation is usually finished at the bottom with small pleating of about 8" all around. With your fabric, this would be of the bengaline. To keep the pleats in line, they are tacked together underneath about half way with a running tack stitch.(The flat pleater carried by Clotilda is a boon in making these pleats!) The other pleats of the overskirt would also be tacked from underneath in the same manner...every 4-6" all the way down, or about 10" above the hemline. The foundation is usually attached to the skirt, but I make my repro's separate for reasons of overall weight and up keep. And my cleaner thanks me also! Kathleen ;----- Original Message ----- From: "Vicki Betts" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 10:58 PM Subject: [h-cost] 1880s skirt construction > I am trying to put together an 1880s outfit, and it is outside of my > usual time frame. I will be using the Truly Victorian 1885 Bustle > Cuirass Bodice (long sleeve, high neck), and the 1885 4-gore underskirt > with the pouf back, out of midnight blue bengaline and midnight blue > voided velvet in a floral pattern, all over the Truly Victorian > Petticoat with Wire Bustle. The idea for the skirt is to have a voided > floral velvet panel down the front, then long kilt pleats of the > bengaline on either side of that, then the back with the pouf also the > bengaline. > > The question comes on construction. As I understand it, first you make > a basic skirt out of a sturdy but cheaper fabric. What sort of fabric? > Do I stitch the fashion fabric directly to that? Is there any extra > reinforcement around the hem? How do I keep the long kilt pleats > pleated--are they tacked down along the edge, or stitched down? Should > there be short kilt pleats under any part of the skirt? Just the front > velvet? Any other key points to 1880s skirt that set it apart and make > it work? Any key books or articles I should see before I plunge right > in? I have some of the basic 19th century sources, but I do not have > one that is strictly 1880s. > > Thanks, > > Vicki Betts > vbetts@gower.net > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 15:13:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0BKDNA2003283 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:13:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BKAX4S007513; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:10:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BKAPTB055976; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:10:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BKANTB055926 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:10:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.115] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB74324600F2; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:00:52 -0500 Message-ID: <001001c3d87f$a55d30a0$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:15:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] scarlet, flannel petticoats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0BKDNA2003283 Status: RO I am about to replicate the scarlet crinoline, 1863 from the Cunnington 'History of Underclothes". I am assuming that the flannel is wool in this period, but can someone suggest the correct weight of cloth that was used for petticoats in this period. I had thought to use some of a 'crepe weight'. Also, since scarlet was the popular color for this garment, was the scarlet on the yellow to orange side, or the blue side of red? Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 16:26:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0BLQjA2003691 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:26:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BLQ34S012586; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BLPxTB087418; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:25:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BLPuTB087377 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:25:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DFE642615 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:35:51 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4001BFAF.5080309@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:27:11 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] scarlet, flannel petticoats References: <001001c3d87f$a55d30a0$735183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <001001c3d87f$a55d30a0$735183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > I am about to replicate the scarlet crinoline, 1863 from the Cunnington 'History of Underclothes". I am assuming that the flannel is wool in this period, but can someone suggest the correct weight of cloth that was used for petticoats in this period. I had thought to use some of a 'crepe weight'. Also, since scarlet was the popular color for this garment, was the scarlet on the yellow to orange side, or the blue side of red? > There is a red flannel petticoat on the December page of the 2003 Historic Fashions calendar put out by Sally Queen Associates. It is a rich true red, neither orangish or bluish, though it is trimmed with electric blue on the hem. The calendar is currently on clearance if you care to pick up a copy for reference. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 17:41:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0BMfVA2003952 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:41:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BMbr4S017958; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:37:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BMbnTB019926; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:37:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from obsidian.spiritone.com (obsidian.spiritone.com [216.99.193.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BMblTC019909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:37:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by obsidian.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0BMqcG5031379 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:52:38 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] another eBay book Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:37:23 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040110231830.025b8bb0@64.87.54.245> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lovely! Just to restrain my acquisitive instincts I usually go to Bookfinder.com or one of the on-line search engines to see what they have the book for. This one is up for $56 from a shop in the UK. Considering shipping, etc., a bid of $60 would be reasonable. Regina > Hi all > > I know some of you have spoken about the Book of Hours for research > purposes. Well, there is one available on eBay, if anyone is interested. > > BOOK OF HOURS 15th Century French Illuminated > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3579254038&cate gory=7703&rd=1 Good luck! Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 18:03:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0BN3QA2004044 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:03:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BN0f4S019454; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:00:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BN0cTB028966; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:00:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BN0ZTB028914 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:00:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@infotrope.net) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8B8C37284 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:00:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AfoZM-0004bV-00 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:00:32 -0500 To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:00:32 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1638 silk gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I thought you all might like to see the gown I made to wear to an event set in 1638. I've posted pictures on my website at http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/oop/1638/greygown/ The fabric is a lightweight grey/black shot Indian silk, interlined to give it weight. The cap and neckerchief are linen. The lace is handmade linen bobbin lace which I picked up in Bruges when I was there. The overall look I was aiming for can be seen in the engravings by Wenceslas Hollar at http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/HOLLAR.HTM The bodice and cap are based on Kass McGann's "Reconstructing History" patterns. They worked out pretty well, with a few glitches in the bodice pattern related to issues with making larger sizes - some of the basic rectangular pattern pieces, including the gathered sleeves, weren't tested on a real live larger body, I think, so be careful there. But the bodice pattern itself fit perfectly and the instructions were quite clear. Recommended with caveats for larger sizes, which I will retract when a new edition is released with a few fixes :) K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 18:07:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0BN7WA2004050 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:07:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BN6s4S019865; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:06:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BN6qTB031491; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:06:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0BN6oTB031445 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:06:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from axejudge@accessus.net) X-RAV-Header: Scanned Received: from [207.206.137.242] (HELO accessus.net) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1) with ESMTP id 207001119 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:06:43 -0600 Message-ID: <4001D6D5.4020405@accessus.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:05:57 -0600 From: Karen Heim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020318 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Somewhat novice needs assistance References: <74AB0F78-E4D6-11D7-A9F6-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> <000401c3d801$bdb18300$3ce3fea9@sbcglobal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmm. Let's see. One site says that there was an edict in 1633 requiring plainer dress, so the fancy lace on the Mode in Costume drawing may predate that. Here's a couple of similar figures, from after the edict: http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/17thcent/mensfashionplates/abrahambosse.jpg http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/17thcent/mensfashionplates/courtier1633.jpg There's a few good images on this page: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/h/hals/frans/04-1633/index.html Let's see if I can find some closeups: http://www.abcgallery.com/H/hals/hals45.html http://www.abcgallery.com/H/hals/hals21.html http://www.abcgallery.com/V/vandyck/vandyck92.html http://www.abcgallery.com/V/vandyck/vandyck90.html Why didn't you ask me at last night's meeting? I'm always glad to help when I can. Karen Bruce & Nora Mai wrote: >Hi ho: > >Since you folks are far more knowledgable than I am than I'll ever be, I >need some help. > >I would like to find the original source painting for a drawing I've seen in >"The Mode in Costume". In the second and expanded edition we have, on page >146, in the Louis XIII era illustrations, there's a Cavalier gentleman from >the 1630s who's holding a cape over his left arm and his hat in the right. >The figure is facing straight out of the frame. > >Can anyone tell me where I can find the original, if there is one, because >so far, I can't find it in any of our books. If there's a similar outfit >somewhere, I'd like to look at it too. > >Thanks! > >Bruce > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 19:41:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0C0fMA2004429 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:41:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C0ca4S025919; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:38:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C0cOTB069180; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:38:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C0cNTB069170 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:38:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRC0040EPRX5W@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:38:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:35:37 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1638 silk gown In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040111163503.00b0c9b0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:00 PM 1/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I thought you all might like to see the gown I made to wear to an event >set in 1638. I've posted pictures on my website at >http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/oop/1638/greygown/ The dress looks great! Congratulations on creating a beautiful gown. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 20:09:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0C191A2004561 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:09:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C18K4S027898; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:08:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C18JTB081006; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:08:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0C18ITB080997 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:08:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040112010817.99742.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:08:17 PST Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:08:17 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1638 silk gown To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very nicely done, Kirrily! congrats! Albra Kirrily Robert wrote: I thought you all might like to see the gown I made to wear to an event set in 1638. I've posted pictures on my website at http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/oop/1638/greygown/ The fabric is a lightweight grey/black shot Indian silk, interlined to give it weight. The cap and neckerchief are linen. The lace is handmade linen bobbin lace which I picked up in Bruges when I was there. The overall look I was aiming for can be seen in the engravings by Wenceslas Hollar at http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/HOLLAR.HTM The bodice and cap are based on Kass McGann's "Reconstructing History" patterns. They worked out pretty well, with a few glitches in the bodice pattern related to issues with making larger sizes - some of the basic rectangular pattern pieces, including the gathered sleeves, weren't tested on a real live larger body, I think, so be careful there. But the bodice pattern itself fit perfectly and the instructions were quite clear. Recommended with caveats for larger sizes, which I will retract when a new edition is released with a few fixes :) K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 20:48:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0C1msA2004758 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:48:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C1mA4S000708; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:48:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C1m7TB097276; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:48:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.118.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C1m5TC097252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:48:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mjh@pearlandplume.com) Received: (qmail 29405 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2004 01:48:05 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com X-Recipient: h-costume@indra.com Received: from unknown (HELO ?65.24.120.65?) (65.24.120.65) by mail.donet.com for h-costume@indra.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2004 01:48:05 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:45:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1638 silk gown From: Marsha J Hamilton To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very nice. Thank you for sharing! Marsha ------- on 1/11/04 6:00 PM, Kirrily Robert at skud@infotrope.net wrote: > I thought you all might like to see the gown I made to wear to an event > set in 1638. I've posted pictures on my website at > http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/oop/1638/greygown/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 21:18:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0C2IiA2004905 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:18:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C2Fm4S002859; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:15:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C2FlTB008786; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:15:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C2FdTB008739 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:15:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip96.208-187-50.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [208.187.50.96]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6CE36AC20 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:15:37 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:15:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... Message-ID: <400192C5.19296.24FC33@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <200401091931.i09JVjg14716@gw.retro.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You'll still need a method to control the skirt at least at the > hem level. If the skirt wants to spread out (either from gores or > gathering), it'll try and migrate out and back...which usually gets it > caught in the wheels. Or on some powerchairs, in the servos for the > seating system (seat backs often tilt back, and some seating systems > tilt in space or lift). In my little manual chair, I've put holes in > dresses because I didn't at first really how *easy* it was to get > something caught in the wheels and the wheel locks. Getting something > caught in the wheel locks was a really rude suprise the first time I > tried to transfer out of the chair and realized I was still attached > to the chair. ;} Bikers have that problem with the "hems" of their pants. They use a clip like affair. Perhaps something that could go around the skirts at the bottom (like a series of rings around the inside of the hem bottom which could be loosed when mobility is desired, and pulled in when the skirts needed control.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 21:22:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0C2MOA2004916 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:22:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C2Lk4S003492; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:21:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C2LjTB011286; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:21:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C2LhTB011274 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:21:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip96.208-187-50.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [208.187.50.96]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC63F6AC3C for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:21:41 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:21:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] to peascod or not, 1588 men's doublet Message-ID: <40019437.9178.2AA23E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20040109191903.0246a940@64.87.54.245> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am making a late 1580s (1588) doublet and venetians for my husband, > and I want to be as close to the best fashion as possible. Peascod > bellies are the style. However, my husband already has enough girth in > his waist area already. I am wondering if I should make the doublet > with additional padding, to make his large belly even larger. I'd say no. While they may have put in padding on some of the more obese men in the real time period, our guys don't "cotton" to it. One of my apprentices has been working on a peascod belly doublet for her husband for quite some time, through many fittings. Now, as she is finally in the "nearly done and he can wear it phase" he informed her that he didn't want to wear something that made him look fatter than he really was. It's so sad. She's put away and doesn't know if she'll ever be able to push herself to finish it since he won't wear it anyway. However, I was present for one of the fittings (to work out a problem she was having) and he looked grand in it. However, *he* doesn't think so, so that's the end of it. So, I would opt for letting his natural self provide any padding. No use making him "fatter than he really" is. ;) (And they say women have egos and worry too much about their weight.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 22:23:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0C3NoA2005094 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:23:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C3KM4S007440; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:20:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C3KKTB034940; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:20:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail12.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail12.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C3KJTB034921 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:20:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail12.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0C3KIf4005219 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:20:18 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.34.246]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:20:12 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:20:07 -0500 Message-ID: <01eb01c3d8ba$fb425190$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Aleskine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I didn't know this was still made, but I had heard of it before - several of Jackie Kennedy's dresses in the Corcoran's "Jacqueline Kennedy The White House Years" were made out of it. Of course I couldn't touch it but it seemed to have a heavy drape and ability to hold a shape - at a distance it almost looked like neoprene (the material used to make scuba diving outfits). Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 22:28:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0C3RxA2005110 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:28:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C3PH4S007699; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:25:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C3PHTB036896; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:25:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C3PFTB036887 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:25:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.115] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A15FE8D00C8; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:15:43 -0500 Message-ID: <002301c3d8bc$665f9fe0$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001001c3d87f$a55d30a0$735183d1@rmitchellras> <4001BFAF.5080309@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] scarlet, flannel petticoats Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:30:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have the calendar and some how missed it! Thankyou very much. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] scarlet, flannel petticoats > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > > I am about to replicate the scarlet crinoline, 1863 from the Cunnington 'History of Underclothes". I am assuming that the flannel is wool in this period, but can someone suggest the correct weight of cloth that was used for petticoats in this period. I had thought to use some of a 'crepe weight'. Also, since scarlet was the popular color for this garment, was the scarlet on the yellow to orange side, or the blue side of red? > > > > There is a red flannel petticoat on the December page of the 2003 > Historic Fashions calendar put out by Sally Queen Associates. It is a > rich true red, neither orangish or bluish, though it is trimmed with > electric blue on the hem. The calendar is currently on clearance if you > care to pick up a copy for reference. > > > > Dawn > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 23:43:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0C4hFA2005419 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:43:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C4gY4S012742; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:42:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C4gTTB069497; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:42:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C4dxTC068478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:40:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0C4f3KY014181 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:41:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i0C4f3PG014179 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:41:03 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1638 silk gown Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:41:03 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040111163503.00b0c9b0@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040111163503.00b0c9b0@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401112341.03145.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 11 January 2004 07:35 pm, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 06:00 PM 1/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >I thought you all might like to see the gown I made to wear to an event > >set in 1638. I've posted pictures on my website at > >http://elizabethangeek.com/katrowberd/oop/1638/greygown/ > > The dress looks great! Congratulations on creating a beautiful gown. I agree. It looks lovely. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 11 23:47:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0C4l5A2005435 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:47:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C4jo4S013027; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:45:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C4joTB070902; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:45:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C4jnTB070859 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:45:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (12-241-217-228.client.attbi.com [12.241.217.228]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0C4jhN11649 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:45:43 -0500 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:52:58 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <4001D6D5.4020405@accessus.net> Message-Id: <31271D9D-44BB-11D8-B3F1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: Subject: [h-cost] (no subject) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, I am putting together a list of movies that are GOOD examples of historical costume. If you have any favorites, please let me know off-list. I will compile and post to the list. Thanks! Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 00:10:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0C5ApA2005503 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:10:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C5AG4S014467; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:10:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C5AFTB080623; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:10:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0C5ADTB080577 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:10:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCsz7aQTy7MTSiLfmVj3y2748RSsgxh3XVg==">; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:09:19 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JKNWS4JH; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:09:19 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:05:18 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1638 silk gown Message-ID: <20040111.230518.-403809.3.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Great looking dress! The silver/black fabric is a particularly nice choice and I love the look of the neck piece. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 01:10:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0C6AkA2005655 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:10:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C69V4S018183; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:09:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C69STB004688; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:09:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C69RTB004678 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:09:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.176.69]) by smail3.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 1611685 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:01:29 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] (no subject) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:09:28 -0600 Message-ID: <000001c3d8d2$a3bf4960$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <31271D9D-44BB-11D8-B3F1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Althea-- You might start with the list Tara McGinnis already has on her web site: http://www.costumes.org/mwbh/100pages/mwbh.htm Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Althea Turner Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 10:53 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] (no subject) Greetings all, I am putting together a list of movies that are GOOD examples of historical costume. If you have any favorites, please let me know off-list. I will compile and post to the list. Thanks! Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 03:58:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0C8wbA2031881 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 03:58:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C8w14S028856; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C8vtTB070043; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:57:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C8vrTB070020 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:57:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lee@gw.retro.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id i0C90t002598 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:00:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:00:55 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200401120900.i0C90t002598@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > In my little manual chair, I've put holes in > > dresses because I didn't at first really how *easy* it was to get > > something caught in the wheels and the wheel locks. Getting something > > caught in the wheel locks was a really rude suprise the first time I > > tried to transfer out of the chair and realized I was still attached > > to the chair. ;} > > Bikers have that problem with the "hems" of their pants. They use a > clip like affair. Perhaps something that could go around the skirts > at the bottom (like a series of rings around the inside of the hem > bottom which could be loosed when mobility is desired, and pulled in > when the skirts needed control.) In a manual wheelchair, the wheel locks are levers that press down on the back tires, usually in the front of the wheel, just beyond the end of the cushion (they're part of the frame). So you'd need a strap at just above knee height. In that case, back to my idea of only strapping the *back* of a skirt, as it'll control the fullness but still let you move and won't be visible. It'll be a similar problem if the powerchair has a tilt or lift seating system, as everything to get caught in will be from hip to knee level. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 04:25:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0C9PoA2032354 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 04:25:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C9PF4S000464; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 02:25:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C9PETB080182; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 02:25:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C9PCTB080143 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 02:25:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i0C9RWA02768.; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:27:32 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:25:07 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:24:31 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1638 silk gown Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lovely! And the real Belgian lace finishes it off perfectly. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 10:02:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CF2cA2001512 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:02:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CF1o4S006335; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:01:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CF1jTB009461; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:01:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CF1fTB009423 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:01:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-41-108.jps.net ([209.165.41.108] helo=pavilion) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ag3ZU-0002L7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:01:40 -0800 Message-ID: <003001c3d91e$2b3efb60$6c29a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401091931.i09JVjg14716@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:10:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lee wrote: > > You'll still need a method to control the skirt at least at the > hem level. If the skirt wants to spread out (either from gores or > gathering), it'll try and migrate out and back...which usually gets > it caught in the wheels. Or on some powerchairs, in the servos for > the seating system (seat backs often tilt back, and some seating systems > tilt in space or lift). In my little manual chair, I've put holes in > dresses because I didn't at first really how *easy* it was to get something > caught in the wheels and the wheel locks. Getting something caught in the > wheel locks was a really rude suprise the first time I tried to transfer > out of the chair and realized I was still attached to the chair. ;} > Of course the period answer would be a beautiful litter complete with four strapping (and handsome) young men to carrying you to all your appointments. Then skirts in wheels would be irrelevant and you would only have to worry about the curtain fabric clashing with your gown. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 10:24:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CFObA2001597 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:24:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CFNv4S008642; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:23:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CFNtTB022149; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:23:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (msg.ureach.com [63.236.74.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CFNrTB022131 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:23:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-81-137-92.asm.bellsouth.net [65.81.137.92]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i0CFNrwx023134 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:23:53 -0500 Message-ID: <001d01c3d920$164ecdf0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401091931.i09JVjg14716@gw.retro.com> <003001c3d91e$2b3efb60$6c29a5d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:23:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO . I am not in a wheelchair or scooter, but if you find where we can get that, I want one too! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] put your thinking caps on.... > > Lee wrote: > Of course the period answer would be a beautiful litter complete with four > strapping (and handsome) young men to carrying you to all your appointments. > Then skirts in wheels would be irrelevant and you would only have to worry > about the curtain fabric clashing with your gown. > > Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 10:50:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CFosA2001769 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:50:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CFoB4S011499; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:50:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CFoATB038679; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:50:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0CFo6TB038566 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:50:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oi+fJNguI7R22rkcq3fgY1M=">; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:49:53 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JKP3F2BL; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:49:53 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:10:21 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costumes for singers Message-ID: <20040112.074910.1776.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,16-17 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The thing I can't stand to wear while singing is any headress that > covers > my ears. I look great in a French Hood, but you won't see me in one > when > I'm going to sing, instead I wear my hair in a net, pinned on so > that the > band is behind my ears, and top it with a cap. > > Margo I sing with a choral consort--anything that covers your ears is bad news. If I'm doing medieval, I wear a light linen veil under my Laurel circlet--the veil is ovoid so it tucks and drapes away from my ears and I don't need to use any headbands with it as my circlet keeps it neatly in place. If I'm doing Renaissance, I wear Italians, and have a very nice bag-style Italian cap that lets me hear well and keeps my unruly hair tamed. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 10:54:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CFsHA2001836 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:54:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CFrf4S011974; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:53:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CFreTB041095; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:53:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CFrbTB041063 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:53:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104112.uvm.edu [132.198.104.112]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CFraUT029686 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:53:37 -0500 Message-ID: <4002C305.8080202@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:53:41 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >>http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/margaret.jpg > I'd guess these are lacing rings, as some of the other sketches show > lacing in this position. And the little bumps do look offset here. > Probably too small for hooks in any case. Yes, I'm afraid I have to agree. Interestingly, the other front laced gowns where you actually see the lacing (More's daughters) don't seem to use rings through which a lace is threaded. Rather, they seem to have ties that tie horizontally across the undergown and are affixed directly to the front opening edge of the overgown. I think the Hunnisett model (front opening with spiral lace covered by pinned stomacher) has proven so popular that that's what we "see" in our mind's eye when we think of these gowns. But those Tudors were so chary of showing their lacings/fastenings that for all we know they could have been using zippers! Kidding, kidding, of course...! - Hope P.S. I'll dig out my source for the "Margaret" sketch to see if this is considered a genuine Holbein or not. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 10:55:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CFtUA2001865 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:55:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CFss4S012114; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:54:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CFsrTB041794; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:54:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CFspTB041769 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:54:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104112.uvm.edu [132.198.104.112]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CFsoUT029919 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:54:51 -0500 Message-ID: <4002C34E.4@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:54:54 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: <001d01c3d7d5$44c51b40$4d9eaec7@castlebooks> In-Reply-To: <001d01c3d7d5$44c51b40$4d9eaec7@castlebooks> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Janet Davis wrote: > You might want to check out the diptych with the Virgiin and 3 donors by the > Master of the Legend of St. Ursula at this link: > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/m/master/ursula/ . Thanks for the link--I missed that one! - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 11:07:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CG7aA2001879 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:07:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CG4O4S013297; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:04:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CG4MTB047898; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:04:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CG4KTB047870 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:04:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104112.uvm.edu [132.198.104.112]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CG4JUT031831 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:04:19 -0500 Message-ID: <4002C587.6050807@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:04:23 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow! Thanks so much for your thorough reply and links. I'd be interested in knowing where the first batch of images came from--they don't seem familiar. (http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/003r.jpg, 026r.jpg, 041r.jpg, and 151v.jpg) I'm having to rethink this gown now, not for the partlet/not partlet debate, but for the fur! Fur lining seems to be the requirement for this gown and that's not something I want to tackle (or wear at indoor events)! Hmm...maybe it's back to Tudors for me. One thing I seem to be appallingly bad at is getting a front laced gown to close properly so that the edges just meet, without overlap or puckering, the lace cannot be seen, and the rings don't pull. Even when the gown is fitted properly with an undergown taking the stress I get a bit pf puckering. I do better with hooks but lacing rings still have me stumped. Any tricks? - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 11:53:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CGrmA2002311 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:53:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CGr84S020298; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:53:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CGr5TB083633; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:53:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CGqxTB083555 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:53:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip149.207-173-125.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.125.149]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C31B6ACD2 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:52:58 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:53:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Message-ID: <4002606C.31570.34852DD@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4002C587.6050807@uvm.edu> References: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm having to rethink this gown now, not for the partlet/not partlet > debate, but for the fur! Fur lining seems to be the requirement for > this gown and that's not something I want to tackle (or wear at indoor > events)! Hmm...maybe it's back to Tudors for me. You might be surprised. While most of the portraits and the like show fur linings, the inventories list those lined with brocades (for "summer"), so you might still be able to use that style. > One thing I seem to be appallingly bad at is getting a front laced > gown to close properly so that the edges just meet, without overlap or > puckering, the lace cannot be seen, and the rings don't pull. Even > when the gown is fitted properly with an undergown taking the stress I > get a bit pf puckering. I do better with hooks but lacing rings still > have me stumped. Any tricks? Over the lacing you can have what is called a "placard". That was a fairly plain "stomacher" like thing which was pinned over the lacings. The inventories list them as separate items, so I suspect that sometimes they were worn, sometimes they weren't, or sometimes the more elaborately embroidered and/or brocaded stomachers were worn. (They are usually listed as being plain fabric such as black velvet or red velvet. It's probably what Jane Seymour is wearing in the famous Holbein. However, they start showing up as early as Edward IV and he's decidedly earlier than 1500!) One thing also that I've found is to have a 1/4" steel corset stay along each edge of the garment so that the lacing holes don't pull so badly. They may have had this edge boned in some way (although with what, I don't know because in early Tudor times you don't find many references to whale boning in inventories and trade stuff, and most other things are too stiff. Perhaps the reeds) or is more heavily interlined at the edge at least. (It's easier to work with that if you are handsewing than if you are trying to machine sew it.) But you don't have to give up on doing that transitional time. It's a really lovely period IMHO. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 12:03:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CH3jA2002421 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:03:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CH3G4S021921; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:03:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CH3FTB091241; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:03:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CH3CTC091192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:03:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0CH0QPp022753 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:00:26 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:00:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4002D397.4010402@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:04:23 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] closure pucker was: 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4002C587.6050807@uvm.edu> In-Reply-To: <4002C587.6050807@uvm.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hope Greenberg wrote: > One thing I seem to be appallingly bad at is getting a front laced gown > to close properly so that the edges just meet, without overlap or > puckering, the lace cannot be seen, and the rings don't pull. Even when > the gown is fitted properly with an undergown taking the stress I get a > bit of puckering. I do better with hooks but lacing rings still have me > stumped. Any tricks? One side with a lightweight bone in it works for me. It's possible that cording-under-compression (so it's stiff) would work for a more plausibly accurate solution. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 12:04:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CH4rA2002430 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:04:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CH4F4S022052; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:04:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CH4FTB091972; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:04:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CH4CTB091855 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:04:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC49042624 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:14:10 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4002D3E0.5070106@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:05:36 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: folkwear book -revisited References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I received my copy in the mail this morning and after looking at it I have some comments to add, particularly for those who may be considering a purchase. It's got a variety of pictures, photographs, old postcards, line drawings, and the like. Everything, where possible is in color (there are B&W postcards and old photos). Unfortunately while most pictures are captioned almost none of them are dated, and few have a reference to place or ethnicity -- though you can sometimes infer from the text what they are showing you. There are pictures of garments or textiles that are uncaptioned, and I *think* some of them are meant to be modern reproductions in the style that the chapter discusses, but you really can't tell sometimes. Throughout the book there are templates and diagrams and instructions for embellishment projects like stamping, embroidery, applique and patchwork -- all techniques you will use in the second half of the book. The directions for the 6 garments they offer directions for take up at least half the volume. The directions look pretty clear to me and they come with little diagrams showing individual assembly steps. Each garment is illustrated with pictures of the originals and of reproductions. So, overall, what it lacks in the documentation and references, I think it makes up for with the projects and instructions. This is definitely more of a 'how-to' book than a history book. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 12:10:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CHAaA2002466 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:10:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CH9t4S022949; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:09:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CH9rTB096345; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:09:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scc074.its.state.nc.us (scc074.its.state.nc.us [207.4.22.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CH9qTB096252 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:09:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Ellen.Dappert@ncmail.net) Received: from scc074.its.state.nc.us (127.0.0.1) by scc074.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 3F7C9FD50044D41A for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:09:46 -0500 Received: from ncmail.net (207.4.90.6) by scc074.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 3F7C9FD200489238 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:09:45 -0500 Message-ID: <4002D4EC.7DE19DD6@ncmail.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:10:04 -0500 From: Ellen Dappert Organization: NC-DJJDP / District 26 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200401092333.i09NXkTC063020@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] aleskine fabric? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO without seeing a swatch.... For 1800's Too heavy. Too slubby. Mia in Charlotte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 12:38:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CHccA2002672 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:38:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CHbn4S026737; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:37:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CHblTB017956; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:37:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [69.17.45.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CHbiTB017906 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:37:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (adsl-64-160-176-186.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.186]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFE112F895 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:40:55 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <4002D4EC.7DE19DD6@ncmail.net> References: <200401092333.i09NXkTC063020@net.indra.com> <4002D4EC.7DE19DD6@ncmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0700C104-4526-11D8-A68E-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] aleskine fabric? Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:37:43 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know if modern aleskine is the same, but a silk/wool fabric named aleskine was in use in the 1830s. .heather. On Jan 12, 2004, at 9:10 AM, Ellen Dappert wrote: > without seeing a swatch.... > For 1800's > > Too heavy. > Too slubby. > > Mia in Charlotte > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 14:30:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CJUXXV003273 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:30:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CJTi4S012550; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:29:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CJTcTB002437; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:29:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CJTaTB002428 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:29:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104112.uvm.edu [132.198.104.112]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CJTZUT012888 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:29:35 -0500 Message-ID: <4002F5A3.80300@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:29:39 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4002606C.31570.34852DD@localhost> In-Reply-To: <4002606C.31570.34852DD@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > You might be surprised. While most of the portraits and the like show > fur linings, the inventories list those lined with brocades (for > "summer"), so you might still be able to use that style. Thanks. That's good news. Would you happen to have readily to hand the references for the inventories. Are these published or no? I'd love to do some follow up research. - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 15:33:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CKXbXV003535 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:33:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CKWg4S019642; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:32:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CKWbTB045786; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:32:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.mdx.safepages.com (mail2.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CKWZTB045765 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:32:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 837681D148D; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:32:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust91.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.91]) by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 710B91D136F for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:32:34 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <077301c3d94b$578c4150$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4002C587.6050807@uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:33:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No, don't give up because of the fur--there are plenty of examples that aren't fur-lined. If Anne de Bretagne can wear an unlined version, so can you! I'm about to go run errands, but this evening I'll post a few images of unlined ones. Small lacing rings--like 1/4" outer diameter--set close together. However, it's easier to put in hidden hooks and eyes, just like on that 1442 Fouquet--why not do that? -E ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Greenberg" > I'm having to rethink this gown now, not for the partlet/not partlet > debate, but for the fur! Fur lining seems to be the requirement for this > gown and that's not something I want to tackle (or wear at indoor > events)! Hmm...maybe it's back to Tudors for me. > > One thing I seem to be appallingly bad at is getting a front laced gown > to close properly so that the edges just meet, without overlap or > puckering, the lace cannot be seen, and the rings don't pull. Even when > the gown is fitted properly with an undergown taking the stress I get a > bit pf puckering. I do better with hooks but lacing rings still have me > stumped. Any tricks? > > - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 15:45:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CKj2XV003588 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:45:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CKiJ4S020874; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:44:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CKiHTB053578; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:44:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CKiFTB053561 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:44:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) by mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRE0081O9L0ZU@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:43:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:44:04 -0500 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket In-reply-to: <003601c3d404$ca32f240$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <40030714.20301@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) References: <3FF763E3.9080403@optonline.net> <001101c3d33e$c909c680$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> <3FF9CCF2.6040507@optonline.net> <001701c3d3d5$d032f0c0$715183d1@rmitchellras> <3FF9E8AF.8080409@fenris.net> <003601c3d404$ca32f240$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO this is just a YIPPY post. i don't know if you all remember that I had lost the pattern to the folkware patterns that i had bought. well, even thougnh I haven't had a chance to get copies from the library of books mentioned and i know know that there are perhaps more period (for what i am aiming at--will use this advise on the next round, in a couple of months-after i get the projects planed out). anyway, i found the pattern!!! in had been shoved into my "pantry" shelves in the basement, not the "sewing" shelves. just found it yesterday. jordana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 16:06:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CL65XV003760 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:06:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CL4e4S023012; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:04:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CL4aTB067403; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:04:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CL4TTB067292 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:04:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip149.207-173-125.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.125.149]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163216AB40 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:04:27 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:04:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Message-ID: <40029B4F.19185.42E5697@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4002F5A3.80300@uvm.edu> References: <4002606C.31570.34852DD@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > You might be surprised. While most of the portraits and the like > > show fur linings, the inventories list those lined with brocades > > (for "summer"), so you might still be able to use that style. > > Thanks. That's good news. Would you happen to have readily to hand the > references for the inventories. Are these published or no? I'd love to > do some follow up research. I've only gotten them from published studies. The easiest one to find is The Inventories of Henry VIII edited by David Starkey. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 16:09:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CL9bXV003776 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:09:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CL974S023541; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:09:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CL96TB070541; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:09:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CL93TC070491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:09:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0CL6HPp023617 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:06:17 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:06:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40030D36.8020405@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:10:14 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4002C587.6050807@uvm.edu> <077301c3d94b$578c4150$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <077301c3d94b$578c4150$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO E House wrote: > No, don't give up because of the fur--there are plenty of examples that > aren't fur-lined. I'm wondering if the ones that seem to have been fur lined for the winter and brocade lined for the summer, were entirely resewn, or if the fur was sewn on over the brocade. It would save effort.... then again, nobles had lots of people to do all the annoying jobs like resewing the whole lining twice a year. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Ask yourself - "How would Sauron have described the situation?" And then -- "What might 'really' have happened?" -- David Brin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 16:43:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CLhKXV003888 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:43:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CLgW4S027761; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:42:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CLgRTB094505; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:42:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CLgNTB094482 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:42:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093020.uvm.edu [132.198.93.20]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CLgMUT007435 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:42:22 -0500 Message-ID: <400314C2.5000603@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:42:26 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: <4002606C.31570.34852DD@localhost> <40029B4F.19185.42E5697@localhost> In-Reply-To: <40029B4F.19185.42E5697@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's another related question: This variation shows up in several places: http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp123.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp75.jpg These are by Gerard David. I haven't collected very many images of this style. Has anyone noticed if they are associated with "saints-wear" or gowns that would not be worn by real people? Any ideas about that sleeve? - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 16:57:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CLvuXV003918 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:57:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CLvA4S029633; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:57:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CLv7TB004886; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:57:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from server18.safepages.com (server18.safepages.com [216.127.146.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CLv5TB004861 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:57:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by server18.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 693CA6E703; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:57:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust91.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.91]) by server18.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 128866E73A for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:56:59 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <07d201c3d957$254ecfd0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub><4002C587.6050807@uvm.edu> <4002D397.4010402@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] closure pucker and 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:57:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0CLvuXV003918 Status: RO Well, drat, I don't have time to do my main errand today after all, so back to procrastinating on that whole laundry thing. There's the whole tiny, close-set lacing rings (we're talking like 1/2" distance _at most_ here), and then there's also something I've been doing on a few very puckery early 15th century gowns where even that didn't work, and I wanted to use a technique that I could at least talk myself into considering a natural outgrowth of what was already being done. http://www.damehelen.com/sewing/card.html illustrates the technique of using cardweaving to strengthen the edges of buttonhole fastenings on sleeves. For those naughty puckering laced openings, I do the same thing--a strip of cardweaving up each side of the opening. It does a great job of keeping things unwrinkled, although you have to be careful with your tension. As a personal preference, I let the weaving wrap around the edge like a tube with a slit in it, which gives it even more stability. (Just make your weft stitches in an overcast fashion.) It would also be possible to hide it all on the inside, although it's a neat, decorative touch, if a bit old fashioned for most of the 15th century. A cord works well, too, and is at least as accurate, although that's not saying too much--has anyone found any written reference to this type of strengthening? You don't even need a stiff cord for this to work; I've used a very limp cotton yarn as stiffener with no problems. The key is making the channel really, really tight; if it's not tight enough, you'll still get puckering even with a stiff cord. Here's a small collection of unlined or fabric-lined square-necked gowns, from 1475 into the 1520s: http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/unlined/ By the way, drat it all, I've already deleted the post, but someone asked about certain illuminations I posted earlier. They're from my current favorite manuscript, MS Douce 195 at the Bodleian library; it's a French, 1475 Roman de la Rose, and is available on line: http://image.ox.ac.uk/show?collection=bodleian&manuscript=msdouce195 but the images are abso-freaking-lutely huge. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 17:03:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CM3SXV003929 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:03:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CM2m4S000545; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:02:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CM2lTB009230; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:02:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CM2hTC009182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:02:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0CLxrPp023862 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:59:54 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:59:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <400319C7.90508@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:03:51 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: <4002606C.31570.34852DD@localhost> <40029B4F.19185.42E5697@localhost> <400314C2.5000603@uvm.edu> In-Reply-To: <400314C2.5000603@uvm.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I haven't collected very many images of this > style. Has anyone noticed if they are associated with "saints-wear" > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp75.jpg This one has a tower on her hat, which means it's almost certainly, um, Barbara? That's her "attribute," otherwise known as "medieval closed captioning." I am confident in saying that regular women didn't wear towers on their hats like that. It's somewhat subtle, though, for a Saint! Other than that, the only odd-ish thing is those wide sleeves. I can't speak to that. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Ask yourself - "How would Sauron have described the situation?" And then -- "What might 'really' have happened?" -- David Brin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 17:19:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CMJKXV003961 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:19:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CMI04S002656; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CMHwTB020298; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:17:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from server10.safepages.com (server10.safepages.com [216.127.146.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CMHtTB020262 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:17:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by server10.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 663FAE4A91; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:17:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust91.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.91]) by server10.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A55FE4A2B for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:17:50 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <07db01c3d95a$0ef3d250$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4002606C.31570.34852DD@localhost><40029B4F.19185.42E5697@localhost> <400314C2.5000603@uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:18:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think this specific example may be "saints-wear"--are you referring to the turned up short sleeve, or to the wide white sleeve, or both worn together? There are a few non-saints-wear examples that resemble that look, but they're not Flemish; they're Dutch, and I think one or two are French. The flipped-up, fur-lined short sleeve is seen reasonably often, though in the context it may indeed be symbolic. Short sleeved or sleeveless versions with chemise(?) sleeves showing, both fancy and plain, are pretty common as well, both on saints and field-workers. However, in the first painting, this specific sleeve doesn't really make structural sense as a short-sleeved gown over a chemise--who would wear their chemise _over_ their undergown? In the second painting the black undergown isn't visible, but since it's the same guy painting basically the same dress, it's not too far a leap to assume it's meant to be there as well. If it were to be a reflection of real fashions, the only sensible answer I can think of would be a false sleeve, attached to the short outer sleeves far enough up that they can still flip up. If you want a short sleeve with a fancy, white sleeve underneath, they're shown. If you want a flipped up short sleeve, that's there too. If you want the white, conical sleeve over a black undergown, with the flipped up short sleeves, you'll be getting into very iffy ground, in my opinion--that first painting is the only one I've ever found with that specific combination. By the way, 2nd painting, left sleeve? It flips up, then back down again; the sleeves are longer on the outside than under the armpit. A couple years back I spent hours staring at it before I figured that out, so just in case you get stuck there too, there you go. Also, note the seams on her bodice! -E ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Greenberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown > Here's another related question: > > This variation shows up in several places: > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp123.jpg > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp75.jpg > > These are by Gerard David. I haven't collected very many images of this > style. Has anyone noticed if they are associated with "saints-wear" or > gowns that would not be worn by real people? > Any ideas about that sleeve? > > - Hope > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 17:30:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CMUwXV003970 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:30:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CMUE4S004059; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:30:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CMUBTB029019; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:30:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scc074.its.state.nc.us (scc074.its.state.nc.us [207.4.22.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CMU8TB028893 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:30:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Ellen.Dappert@ncmail.net) Received: from scc074.its.state.nc.us (127.0.0.1) by scc074.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 3F7C9FD500454969 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:30:01 -0500 Received: from ncmail.net (207.4.90.6) by scc074.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 3F7C9FD200490482 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:30:00 -0500 Message-ID: <40031FFB.85E3474A@ncmail.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:30:19 -0500 From: Ellen Dappert Organization: NC-DJJDP / District 26 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200401121902.i0CJ2YTC082874@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 24 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There WAS a fabric silk/wool Alaskine used in early and mid 19th cent. ( Late 19th cent. I don't know enough about, Tudor too.) The period examples I have seen "look" much lighter, less slubs, a crisp hand, but still a bit of drape. The picture on the web looks like modern home furnishing material. Again it looks very much heavier, stiffer, with more slubs. If anyone obtains a sample and it's lighter weight than it looks, let us know. I want Silk/Wool and cheep too! Mia in Charlotte, NC Former G Street Fabric employee and haunter, where they had real designer alaskine, in dress and suiting weight like Jackie Kennedy wore, Heavy Heavy alaskine in the Home dec, occasionally bengalene, and I even saw and felt a piece of barathea (calm down grl) > I don't know if modern aleskine is the same, but a silk/wool fabric > named aleskine was in use in the 1830s. > > .heather. > > On Jan 12, 2004, at 9:10 AM, Ellen Dappert wrote: > > > without seeing a swatch.... > > For 1800's > > > > Too heavy. > > Too slubby. > > > > Mia in Charlotte > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > End of h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 24 > **************************************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 17:32:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CMWmXV003974 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:32:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CMW84S004254; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:32:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CMW7TB030451; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:32:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.primushost.com (smtp3.primushost.com [209.58.220.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CMW4TC030366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:32:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp3.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1AgAbG-0001QQ-Rx; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:31:58 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 1AgASD-0005DI-00; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:22:37 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:22:37 -0500 (EST) From: Katy Bishop To: Angela Kessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] aleskine fabric? In-Reply-To: <20040109224944.92095.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Historical Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sounds interesting, but if it has a shantung weave it would probably be too slubby for 1860's. They prized smooth fine weaves. Might be nice for 1890's though..... Katy On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Angela Kessler wrote: >Has anybody heard of a fabric by that name? It's for >sale in several colors here: >http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/home/catalog_items.cfm?Query=aleskine > >It's 85% silk, 15% wool, in a heavy shantung weave. >It looks intriguing, and $10/yd seems like a pretty >good price. I'm wondering whether it might be >appropriate for Tudor or 1860s ballgown (I'm thinking >pagoda sleeves). Anybody worked with it before, or >otherwise have opinions? > >Thanks- >Angela > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 17:37:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CMbEXV003980 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:37:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CMaR4S004703; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:36:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CMaQTB033318; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:36:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (sea1-f33.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CMaNTB033245 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:36:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dminmin@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:36:17 -0800 Received: from 146.126.51.51 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:36:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [146.126.51.51] X-Originating-Email: [dminmin@hotmail.com] X-Sender: dminmin@hotmail.com From: "deborah minyard" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:36:17 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jan 2004 22:36:17.0522 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E45AD20:01C3D95C] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Litter X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Of course the period answer would be a beautiful litter complete with four >strapping (and handsome) young men to carrying you to all your >appointments. >Then skirts in wheels would be irrelevant and you would only have to worry >about the curtain fabric clashing with your gown. > >Lisa Sinervo >www.thrednedlestrete.com Atlantia has one in the Queen's regalia. Maddalena > _________________________________________________________________ Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 18:23:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CNN3XV004130 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:23:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CNMD4S009901; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:22:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CNMATB065060; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:22:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CNM8TB065030 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:22:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip149.207-173-125.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.125.149]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A20B6A84F for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:22:05 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:22:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] closure pucker and 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Message-ID: <4002BB9F.5982.4AC9188@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <07d201c3d957$254ecfd0$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Here's a small collection of unlined or fabric-lined square-necked > gowns, from 1475 into the 1520s: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/unlined/ Cool! Where did http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/unlined/adb3.jpg come from? I'm hoping it is from a book so that I can see it in hard copy. (So much gets pixelated when its a computer image.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 18:50:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0CNo1XV004237 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:50:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CNnL4S012644; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:49:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CNnGTB084827; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:49:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CNnETB084801 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:49:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (syr-24-58-121-78.twcny.rr.com [24.58.121.78]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i0CNnCEs010079 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:49:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040112184851.00bc9c88@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:49:29 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Litter In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And I recall the event it was used at... goood God I'm getting old. Bridgette >>Of course the period answer would be a beautiful litter complete with four >>strapping (and handsome) young men to carrying you to all your appointments. >>Then skirts in wheels would be irrelevant and you would only have to worry >>about the curtain fabric clashing with your gown. >> >>Lisa Sinervo >>www.thrednedlestrete.com > >Atlantia has one in the Queen's regalia. >Maddalena > >_________________________________________________________________ >Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed >experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 19:11:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D0BRXV004328 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:11:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D0Ao4S014704; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:10:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D0AnTB098809; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:10:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au [143.216.236.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D0AiTB098676 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:10:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tonkin.rebecca@saugov.sa.gov.au) Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au OUTGOING (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0D0AbSc014306 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:40:37 +1030 (CST)' Received: from sagemsbb006.saugov.sa.gov.au (sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au [143.216.59.14]) by adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au INCOMING (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0D0AZAk014293 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:40:36 +1030 (CST)' Received: by sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:40:35 +1030 Message-ID: <1016FD8698B3F14DB829819C6B856EC7598E2B@sagemsg0005.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au> From: "Tonkin, Rebecca (PIRSA-SARDI)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:40:27 +1030 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Message: 7 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:04:23 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown I'm having to rethink this gown now, not for the partlet/not partlet debate, but for the fur! Fur lining seems to be the requirement for this gown and that's not something I want to tackle (or wear at indoor events)! Hmm...maybe it's back to Tudors for me. Hi: I made a transitional tudor gown a few years ago - the square necked, tight sleeve with turned back cuff sort, made of red velveteen with linen lining. About 1485-1490-ish. I wanted to make it with period fastenings, so I used lacing rings to do up the front. After sewing 60-odd lacing rings in 3 times, I found the best configuration was rings on top of the left front, on the edge, and underneath the right front, set back about 1.5 " from the right edge. But it sagged, wrinkled and buckled, and the little flap about an inch wide that overlapped the left side rings flopped open all the time. I decided that in lieu of the leather from the furs to keep the fabric from flopping, I needed a substitute. A cheap, cool, substitute. Heavy grade interfacing, ironed on both the velveteen and the linen lining, has stiffened it admirably. (Period correctness went out the window unfortunately...) (Hope wrote:) >One thing I seem to be appallingly bad at is getting a front laced >gown to close properly so that the edges just meet, without >overlap or puckering, the lace cannot be seen, and the rings don't >pull. Even when the gown is fitted properly with an undergown >taking the stress I get a bit pf puckering. I do better with hooks >but lacing rings still have me stumped. Any tricks? Well, stiffening it solved the problem for me - the front looks very smooth, rather flattish, in fact. My edges don't meet edge to edge though, the right (when I wear it) overlaps the left about an inch. I think the interfacing prevents the material from puckering. I spiral lace, BTW. I also use 3 florists pins - top, middle, bottom of the lacing strip - to ensure that the overlap can't flap back and reveal the lacing rings. They have pearl heads, because that's the way they came, but the pearls aren't really noticable, and if they were plain heads I think they'd be invisible. Perhaps stiffening with canvas, or some other period substitute, between the outer layer and the lining, could achieve the same effect as the interfacing? I also think that for my dress, the slight tension from being laced around me helps to keep the bodice smooth. Hope this helps, Rebecca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 19:44:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D0itXV004423 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:44:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D0iI4S017918; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:44:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D0iFTB018665; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:44:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D0iCTB018633 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:44:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from casamai@sbcglobal.net) Received: from casamai (adsl-68-91-68-143.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net [68.91.68.143]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0D0i7ES010354 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:44:07 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000401c3d96e$718b7260$3ce3fea9@sbcglobal.net> From: "Bruce & Nora Mai" To: "Historical Costume" References: <74AB0F78-E4D6-11D7-A9F6-00039369A97A@wonderland.com><000401c3d801$bdb18300$3ce3fea9@sbcglobal.net> <4001D6D5.4020405@accessus.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Somewhat novice needs assistance Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:44:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Didn't even think of it until I got home. Thanks. Too bad apparently no one else has had any ideas. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Heim" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Somewhat novice needs assistance > Hmmm. Let's see. One site says that there was an edict in 1633 > requiring plainer dress, so the fancy lace on the Mode in Costume > drawing may predate that. > > Here's a couple of similar figures, from after the edict: > http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/17thcent/mensfashionplates/abrahambosse.jpg > http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/17thcent/mensfashionplates/courtier1633.jpg > > There's a few good images on this page: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/h/hals/frans/04-1633/index.html > Let's see if I can find some closeups: > http://www.abcgallery.com/H/hals/hals45.html > http://www.abcgallery.com/H/hals/hals21.html > > http://www.abcgallery.com/V/vandyck/vandyck92.html > http://www.abcgallery.com/V/vandyck/vandyck90.html > > Why didn't you ask me at last night's meeting? I'm always glad to help > when I can. > > Karen > > Bruce & Nora Mai wrote: > > >Hi ho: > > > >Since you folks are far more knowledgable than I am than I'll ever be, I > >need some help. > > > >I would like to find the original source painting for a drawing I've seen in > >"The Mode in Costume". In the second and expanded edition we have, on page > >146, in the Louis XIII era illustrations, there's a Cavalier gentleman from > >the 1630s who's holding a cape over his left arm and his hat in the right. > >The figure is facing straight out of the frame. > > > >Can anyone tell me where I can find the original, if there is one, because > >so far, I can't find it in any of our books. If there's a similar outfit > >somewhere, I'd like to look at it too. > > > >Thanks! > > > >Bruce > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 22:17:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D3HcXV004867 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:17:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D3Gf4S001120; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:16:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D3GTTB096373; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:16:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D3GQTB096354 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:16:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26129 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:44:56 -0600 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:44:56 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown In-Reply-To: <07db01c3d95a$0ef3d250$0400a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, I go away for a day, and there are more posts than I can even think of responding to. Please forgive my incomplete reply; I do want to hit a couple of points before the thread goes way beyond them. (And anyone who is waiting for me to answer a private note, on anything -- I'm way behind, and I'll try to catch up tonight!) The part I want to respond to now: fur linings. Hope wrote: > I'm having to rethink this gown now, not for the partlet/not partlet > debate, but for the fur! Fur lining seems to be the requirement for > this gown and that's not something I want to tackle (or wear at indoor > events)! Hmm...maybe it's back to Tudors for me. Kat replied: > You might be surprised. While most of the portraits and the like show > fur linings, the inventories list those lined with brocades (for > "summer"), so you might still be able to use that style. ...and regarding the inventories, cited: > I've only gotten them from published studies. The easiest one to find > is The Inventories of Henry VIII edited by David Starkey. A word of caution: The Henry VIII inventory dates from 1547, and Hope's examples center around the 1490s or so. Also, the Henry VIII inventory is English, and Hope's interest seems to be Franco-Flemish. So, does 40 years and a hop across the channel make a difference? In this case, yes, a huge one. By sheer happenstance, I was reading about this yesterday in Elspeth Veale's "English Fur Trade in the Later Middle Ages," which is an extraordinarily readable study despite being absolutely jam-packed with documentary references on fur use in the 12th-16th centuries. One of the points that struck me (even before I came home to these posts today) was how the use of fur linings in fashionable garments, which was ubiquitous in the 14th and 15th centuries, dropped to next to nothing by the mid-16th century in England. In the 14th and 15th centuries, by far the most expensive component of a garment was the fur, costing far more than the dress fabric in the cases Veale cites. By the last half of the 16th century, this was reversed fabrics became the focus for extravagant spending. Veale cites economic, technological, legislative, and practical reasons for the decline in fur use and provides detailed inventory and price information, as well as descriptive quotes from documents about the fur trade. (Her book has been recommended on this list before; I will go so far to say that anyone working in 14th-16th c. clothing needs to stop everything they are doing right now and go ILL a copy.) So I daresay that the Henry VIII inventory and other English 16th c. documents are not a reliable guide for fur use in 1490-1500 Flanders. The Henry VIII documents are early enough in the century to still show plenty of examples of sumptuous fur use, but would also have proportionally more unfurred garments than would have been the case just a few decades earlier. Be that as it may, Kat's main point still holds, to a degree. Veale does cite earlier inventories that refer to unfurred garments. (Again, these are English, not Flemish, but 15th c. England is probably more reflective of mainland European usage than 16th century England. And while Veale focuses on England, you can pick up quite a bit of side information about Franco-Flemish fur use as well.) In the 14th and 15th c. inventories Veale describes, the vast majority of gowns were fur-lined, with a very few unlined gowns in the mix. So someone with six or eight gowns might have only one unfurred one. Her examples, alas, are mostly male. But at least they give us a sense of proportion, and make it clear that fur lining was the desirable default, not an occasional rare extravagance. What isn't clear from Veale's citations -- she did not write from a costumer's standpoint -- is whether there's a difference in style between the furred and unfurred gowns, as well as the known seasonal difference (the unfurred ones being reserved for summer). I would speculate on a possible distinction between furring of overgowns and furring of undergowns. That is, perhaps undergowns might have been more likely to be unfurred than furred. However, I wouldn't be able to source that assumption without doing a study of inventories myself, preferably those from the right time and place. (If I ever learn yet another language, I want it to be Flemish.) As for Flanders, E wrote: > No, don't give up because of the fur--there are plenty of examples > that aren't fur-lined. ...and posted these examples: > Here's a small collection of unlined or fabric-lined square-necked > gowns, from 1475 into the 1520s: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/unlined/ Here's an area where I think it's dicey, in many cases, to rely too much on certain types of images for a particular detail. First, I'm guessing E chose these because no fur lining is visible. However, the lack of a visible lining in an image doesn't mean that the artist was attempting to represent a gown without fur lining, but only that the artist didn't show a lining. I'd approach linings as I would lacing openings, embroidery, and certain other types of details -- when the artist does show them, we know for sure he meant to indicate they were there, but if the artist doesn't show them, in many cases that doesn't tell us they're *not* there. This is particularly true for manuscript paintings, which tend to be small, simplified, and error-prone when it comes to layers and details. Also, manuscript painters often chose colors of the various costume components for purposes of contrast and composition, not as an accurate reproduction of reality. (Documentary references often show proportionate use of color in wardrobes to be far different from that which appears in manuscripts.) Manuscript paintings most likely were rarely painted from life, as they were often taken from model books or otherwise done as stock figures. Panel paintings, by comparison, are often more likely to be painted from life, to represent specific garments (though sometimes studio model garments!), and to use realistic colors. (There's a different set of caveats with portraits, of course -- such as the possible addition of nonexistent jewelry, better-quality materials/furs, etc., at the request of the sitter.) Most of the examples E has on her list are of manuscript paintings, and many from a single source (and very small in their original version). These are wonderful sources for style/silhouette and such things as hem length or neckline shape, but I wouldn't want to use them to build a case for color or such details as fur use or layering. It's worth noting, though, that some of the manuscript examples -- the woman spinning, and the one with the lamb -- may represent underdresses being worn alone for work or informal situations, not the overgown with the lapped opening and wider sleeves that Hope was asking about. I'd more readily see these as consistent with the idea of an unfurred gown. But we can't tell either way. Of the examples on E's list that look like panels, adb3.jpg appears to me to show fur-lined dresses, but perhaps I'm not seeing it as well -- can you give us a cite, so I can try to find it elsewhere? I can't tell much from the Dutch "vanleyden," but I'd like to know who the woman pouring water is; she looks potentially Biblical, though this might be a genre painting, in which case there's a likely class issue involved. (I'm guessing that for 1500-50bruges.jpg, you want us to look at the donor, who's a sea of black on my monitor. The saint is irrelevant, but in any case appears to have fur-lined body but not necessarily sleeves; I'd like to see this in a better image before forming any stronger opinion.) In case it's not clear, I'm definitely *not* arguing that all gowns at this time were furred. I think it's very likely that some were not. It's just that the manuscript paintings don't provide the necessary evidence. The inventories provide our best solid evidence for the occasional use of non-furred garments, but they don't tell us which garments were non-furred. So unless and until we get more to work with, we have to rely on educated guesses. Cynthia (I think) mused: > I'm wondering if the ones that seem to have been fur lined for the > winter and brocade lined for the summer, were entirely resewn, or if > the fur was sewn on over the brocade. It would save effort.... then > again, nobles had lots of people to do all the annoying jobs like > resewing the whole lining twice a year. Veale cites a number of examples of fur linings being moved from an old garment to a new one, typically when the garment was being replaced. She also goes into detail on the trade of used furs, in which linings from older garments were resold for use in newer ones. And linings could be replaced when worn, or presumably upgraded or downgraded depending on finances. So the idea of removing furs and moving them into new garment was known. That seems a bit different from routine seasonal lining switches, though. At one point in the book she mentions the introduction of standalone fur linings that could be worn with multiple outfits, as a cost-saver to avoid having to line each garment separately. I don't have the quote in my notes, so I don't know when this usage first appeared, but I gathered it was a rather late innovation -- probably 16th century, which would explain why I didn't make a note of it (that's past my period of interest). I do recall, though, that this was in the context of male garments. I don't know if the same would apply to women's. (Hmm, it's also possible that the reference was in Elisabeth Ewing's "Fur in Dress," a much lighter overview that I also read this week.) Hope also asked: > One thing I seem to be appallingly bad at is getting a front laced > gown to close properly so that the edges just meet, without overlap or > puckering, the lace cannot be seen, and the rings don't pull. Even > when the gown is fitted properly with an undergown taking the stress I > get a bit pf puckering. I do better with hooks but lacing rings still > have me stumped. Any tricks? Um, line it with fur? ;-) Seriously, if fur is out of reach, then something else with the same properties might help. Perhaps a layer of very thin leather, maybe chamois, on the inside of the bodice? I have recently acquired a large chunk of heavy coating fabric that's a combination of wool and camel's hair. It has a furry, napped surface not unlike a very thin short fur. I'm going to try using that to line a 15th century dress. Yes, I will swelter. But I really want to see the effect it has. I think that the general dismal failure of most 15th-c. reproductions to replicate the drape, line, and fold patterns of medieval art lies in the lack of fur linings. Enough for now. I have a huge in-box full of mail that I probably won't get through tonight, and an overdue journal article to finish (now that I've got my fur footnotes in order). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 22:43:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D3hhXV004967 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:43:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D3eL4S003193; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:40:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D3eKTB008521; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:40:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D3eITB008502 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:40:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 7FE5913D9A2; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 03:40:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust111.tnt5.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.225.111]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 383FF13DA73 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 03:40:17 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <082601c3d987$18c82c90$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4002BB9F.5982.4AC9188@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] closure pucker and 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:41:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Alas, I found it on a website with no identifying information: http://www.publius-historicus.com/anne_br.htm Assuming that's Claude on her lap, that would place the date of the illumination(?) in the first few years of the 1500s, but I'm not much help beyond that. If anyone tracks it down, let me know; I'd love a better look too! -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 22:50:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D3oYXV004991 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:50:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D3nx4S004001; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:49:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D3nwTB012912; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:49:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D3ntTB012884 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:49:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26382 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:18:26 -0600 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:18:26 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown In-Reply-To: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A quickie followup: On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, E House wrote: > So why do I think it's a partlet, at least most or part of the time? > > First, the differently colored under-dresses strongly suggest that the > black thing is a separate garment, at least in some cases. Second, the > precedent is there; all those cute filmy scarves tucked into the > neckline under square-necked, 'Burgundian', and other styles of gown > are almost certainly separate. Third, the neckline is very high in > back, which is not seen with any of the under-dress styles of the > time, nor in the bathrobe or other oute rwear styles. With good > reason; a neckline that high doesn't really work on a full gown--it's > not very comfortable, and it messes with the fit--but it does work on > a light, unseamed (apart from hems, etc) piece of cloth shaped in such > a way that it just folds into place when you drape it over your > shoulders. And fourth, it's just plain practical, because you can > throw it over any under-dress, and suddenly that under-dress works > with your nice new square-necked gown. Yup, yup, yup, and yup -- see my earlier followup. I think our posts must have crossed in the listmail. (If I had known you were going to handle that department, I might not have bothered to post myself ;-) ) > I generally use lacing rings for the two-edges-meeting closure (well, > honestly, most of the time I wind up having to use the eye part of > hooks and eyes, since I can so rarely find good lacing rings. Anyone > have a good source for a bulk order of 1/4"-3/8" solid rings with > smooth insides?) Soldered jump rings are a mainstay for jewelry making, and available in a variety of sizes. E, I routinely buy them in sterling silver or 14K gold-filled versions, from a local wholesaler, and I'll be happy to pick some up for you or point you to their office. Or go here: http://www.firemountaingems.com/search.asp?SKW=jumpring+soldered If you want base metal, I bet you could get them at any craft store that carries jewelry supply -- JoAnn's or Michaels, maybe. > BTW, Fouquet, always one to throw the monkey wrench in, shows some hooks and > eyes in 1442: > <> Well, THAT is cool. Definitely the earliest I've ever seen. And it's a legit portrait of a real person, even if he is a fool. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 22:53:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D3r1XV004998 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:53:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D3pN4S004091; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:51:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D3pMTB013575; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:51:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D3pLTC013558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:51:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0D3qSKY016498 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:52:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i0D3qSND016496 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:52:28 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: folkwear book -revisited Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:52:28 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <4002D3E0.5070106@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <4002D3E0.5070106@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401122252.28434.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 12 January 2004 12:05 pm, Dawn wrote: [snip] > So, overall, what it lacks in the documentation and references, I think > it makes up for with the projects and instructions. This is definitely > more of a 'how-to' book than a history book. Exactly. Though somebody who had knowledge of the provenance of the folk costume discussed from other sources could doubtless turn the how-to information in the book to good use in making reproductions. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 23:39:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D4dRXV005124 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:39:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4ck4S008679; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:38:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4chTB038961; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:38:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.k12.hi.us (honu.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4cfTB038924 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:38:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from makani (makani.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.195]) by smtp.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F255506D8 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:35:20 -1000 (HST) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:37:19 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] closure pucker and 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown In-Reply-To: <082601c3d987$18c82c90$0400a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Alas, I found it on a website with no identifying information: > http://www.publius-historicus.com/anne_br.htm > Assuming that's Claude on her lap, that would place the date of the > illumination(?) in the first few years of the 1500s, but I'm not much help > beyond that. If anyone tracks it down, let me know; I'd love a better look > too! If you have the 1999 Medieval Woman Calendar, it's partially pictured for the month of August. The reference it gives is ANNE OF BRITTANY RECEIVING DIGNITARIES (detail) Petrarch. La Remede de Fortune. French, 1503. Bibliotheque Nationale. Photo: Bridgeman Art Library International. Only about half of the .jpg above is included, as it's just the corner of the larger picture--only about 1/8 of the full page. The picture is cut off right below her hand. annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 23:53:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D4rxXV005139 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:53:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4qF4S009861; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:52:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4qDTB045738; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:52:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4qBTB045716 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:52:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRE00CWRW6WWO@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:52:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:39:48 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Somewhat novice needs assistance In-reply-to: <000401c3d96e$718b7260$3ce3fea9@sbcglobal.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040112203906.02525b68@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <74AB0F78-E4D6-11D7-A9F6-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> <000401c3d801$bdb18300$3ce3fea9@sbcglobal.net> <4001D6D5.4020405@accessus.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:44 PM 1/12/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Didn't even think of it until I got home. Thanks. Too bad apparently no >one else has had any ideas. > >Bruce May not be too many of our specific time periods of knowledge. I know it isn't mine. Hope you find your answer. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 23:53:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D4rxXV005140 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:53:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4qN4S009875; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:52:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4qNTB045806; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:52:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4qBTD045716 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:52:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRE00CWRW6WWO@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:52:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:48:52 -0800 From: Kimiko Small In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040112204350.02522e28@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub> Cc: Subject: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, Again I am looking for some further info on doing that man's 1588 doublet. This time I am trying to find directions on how to recreate period silk thread covered buttons, like the kind shown in Janet Arnold's Patters of Fashion on so many of the doublets and jerkins there. I have wooden globular type of buttons to use as the base, but I am not sure how to proceed to make the right buttons. I will need a lot to go down the front of the doublet, and on the sleeves. So I figured I should work on those asap. Any online or book information would be very helpful. Or barring actual creation of them, anyone know of a good source for similar type of buttons that I can buy a 2-3 dozen of, without costing an arm and a leg? Thanks! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 23:54:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D4s2XV005145 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:54:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4rS4S009944; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:53:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4rRTB046269; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:53:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4rJTB046210 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:53:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip67.207-173-124.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.124.67]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8557F6A9A3 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:53:16 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:53:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Message-ID: <4003093F.14586.5DBC9DC@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <07db01c3d95a$0ef3d250$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I've only gotten them from published studies. The easiest one to > > find is The Inventories of Henry VIII edited by David Starkey. But that isn't the only place I've found them. Just the easiest to find. > A word of caution: The Henry VIII inventory dates from 1547, and > Hope's examples center around the 1490s or so. Also, the Henry VIII > inventory is English, and Hope's interest seems to be Franco-Flemish. > > So, does 40 years and a hop across the channel make a difference? In > this case, yes, a huge one. By sheer happenstance, I was reading about > this yesterday in Elspeth Veale's "English Fur Trade in the Later > Middle Ages," which is an extraordinarily readable study despite being > absolutely jam-packed with documentary references on fur use in the > 12th-16th centuries. One of the points that struck me (even before I > came home to these posts today) was how the use of fur linings in > fashionable garments, which was ubiquitous in the 14th and 15th > centuries, dropped to next to nothing by the mid-16th century in > England. In the 14th and 15th centuries, by far the most expensive > component of a garment was the fur, costing far more than the dress > fabric in the cases Veale cites. By the last half of the 16th century, > this was reversed fabrics became the focus for extravagant spending. > Veale cites economic, technological, legislative, and practical > reasons for the decline in fur use and provides detailed inventory and > price information, as well as descriptive quotes from documents about > the fur trade. (Her book has been recommended on this list before; I > will go so far to say that anyone working in 14th-16th c. clothing > needs to stop everything they are doing right now and go ILL a copy.) > > So I daresay that the Henry VIII inventory and other English 16th c. > documents are not a reliable guide for fur use in 1490-1500 Flanders. > The Henry VIII documents are early enough in the century to still show > plenty of examples of sumptuous fur use, but would also have > proportionally more unfurred garments than would have been the case > just a few decades earlier. > > Be that as it may, Kat's main point still holds, to a degree. Veale > does cite earlier inventories that refer to unfurred garments. (Again, > these are English, not Flemish, but 15th c. England is probably more > reflective of mainland European usage than 16th century England. And > while Veale focuses on England, you can pick up quite a bit of side > information about Franco-Flemish fur use as well.) One thing to point out is that if you are looking at "is it possible to wear a gown (since it is considerably warmer where the modern wearer is than it was in the places the modern wearer wants to emulate) which is unfurred (so "I" don't have heat stroke or have to hock something to be able to afford it)?" vs "What is the most common lining fabric of this period?" you are going to come up with different information. Just opening _The Wardrobe Accounts of King Edward the Fourth_ (who is admittedly English) I found "a demy gown of grene velvet and a gowne of grene damash, bothe gownes lyned with blac satin..." with only a quick flip through. Edward is 1480. (This is a man's inventory, by the way.) In the Privy Purse Expenses of Elizabeth of York (1502, but again English) there are numerous mentions of payments "Itm for lynyng of a gowne of black velvet for the Quenes grace.." to the tailor (taillour). However, it seems that when a "gowne" is even repairing fur, it goes to the furrier (well, actually a "skynner"). For example "to John Hayward skynner for furring of a gown of crysyn velvet for the Quene of Scottes and for two synnes of pampelyon for the cuffes of the same gown.." So, it seems that at least in her books, if it is lined with fabric it goes "to be lyned" to the taillor and if with fur it goes "to be furred" by a skynner. (These are not as easy to parse out as the inventories because you have to pick out the clothing bits from the expenses for the servant to take the garments to be repaired, the "bucckes" and "woodcocks" delivered at the same time by others, etc.) > Veale cites a number of examples of fur linings being moved from an > old garment to a new one, typically when the garment was being > replaced. She also goes into detail on the trade of used furs, in > which linings from older garments were resold for use in newer ones. > And linings could be replaced when worn, or presumably upgraded or > downgraded depending on finances. So the idea of removing furs and > moving them into new garment was known. That seems a bit different > from routine seasonal lining switches, though. I have not gotten the impression from inventories, privy purses or other sources that the linings were taken out of a dress which then had a more seasonally appropriate lining put in. They seem to both be "hanging in the closet ready to wear" so to speak. But the main point is that even if there is a shift from mostly furred to rarely furred (which probably happens in the second half of the 16th C especially, even from my reading), there were still plenty of unfurred garments around. (It seems to me that as the furred garments segue into fabric lined, so do the trained dresses segue into untrained "round gowns".) I think I'd like to find a copy of Veale at some point. It sounds like good stuff. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 12 23:55:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D4tgXV005151 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:55:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4sw4S010079; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:54:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4svTB046953; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:54:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D4stTB046942 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:54:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip67.207-173-124.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.124.67]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 636966A55F for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:54:54 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:54:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] closure pucker and 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Message-ID: <4003099F.21581.5DD4253@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <082601c3d987$18c82c90$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Alas, I found it on a website with no identifying information: > http://www.publius-historicus.com/anne_br.htm > Assuming that's Claude on her lap, that would place the date of the > illumination(?) in the first few years of the 1500s, but I'm not much > help beyond that. If anyone tracks it down, let me know; I'd love a > better look too! Durn. I was really hoping for a book (which often has others from the same "workshop".) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 00:09:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D591XV005188 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:09:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D58N4S011036; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D58MTB053771; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:08:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav53.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D58KTB053718 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:08:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:08:15 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav53.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:08:14 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub> <5.2.1.1.0.20040112204350.02522e28@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:08:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2004 05:08:15.0042 (UTC) FILETIME=[3FCE7220:01C3D993] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For making thread covered buttons: http://www.vertetsable.com/docs/elizabethan_buttons.pdf and http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_buttons.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 00:16:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D5G6XV005195 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:16:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D5Eo4S011749; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:14:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D5EnTB056968; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:14:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0D5ElTB056903 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:14:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCgeJhn1GAjBQYj7TwHDZNCLYYpIqniT6UA==">; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:14:01 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JKRHGFKU; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:14:01 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:09:20 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons Message-ID: <20040112.230920.-743977.3.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-10 From: seamstrix@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would recommend the book: "50 Heirloom Buttons to Make" by Nancy Nehring Taunton Press 1996 ISBN 1-56158-146-1 The type you are probably interested in is called a 'dorset knob' and is found on page 22. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 00:51:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D5psXV005264 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:51:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D5pH4S014610; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:51:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D5pETB074571; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:51:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D5pDTB074565 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:51:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-65.58.144.86.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([65.58.144.86] helo=4gxif) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AgHSK-00001m-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:51:12 -0500 Message-ID: <024f01c3d999$58db5a20$56903a41@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub> <5.2.1.1.0.20040112204350.02522e28@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:51:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't have a copy of Janet Arnold in the house, but there is a book, _50 Heirloom Buttons_, which has directions for thread-covered buttons. If you go to the Amazon link below, there is a blow-up of the cover; if they look like what you want to make, this may be the book for you. -Helen/Aidan http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1561581461/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-4641887-6900644#reader-link _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 00:56:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D5uAXV005270 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:56:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D5ta4S014952; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:55:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D5tZTB076799; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:55:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au [143.216.236.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D5tWTB076758 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:55:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tonkin.rebecca@saugov.sa.gov.au) Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au OUTGOING (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0D5tQSc014185 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:25:26 +1030 (CST)' Received: from sagemsbb006.saugov.sa.gov.au (sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au [143.216.59.14]) by adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au INCOMING (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0D5tQAk014179 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:25:26 +1030 (CST)' Received: by sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:25:26 +1030 Message-ID: <1016FD8698B3F14DB829819C6B856EC7598E2C@sagemsg0005.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au> From: "Tonkin, Rebecca (PIRSA-SARDI)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:25:17 +1030 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: Kimiko Small Subject: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons Hi all, This time I am trying to find directions on how to recreate period silk thread covered buttons, like the kind shown in Janet Arnold's Patters of Fashion on so many of the doublets and jerkins there. Hello: Try this site: http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_buttons.htm There is a downloadable pdf as well: http://www.vertetsable.com/docs/elizabethan_buttons.pdf Rebecca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 00:58:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D5wLXV005276 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:58:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D5vj4S015089; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:57:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D5viTB077803; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:57:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from server10.safepages.com (server10.safepages.com [216.127.146.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D5vfTB077778 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:57:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by server10.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 44AABE4CAC; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:57:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust111.tnt5.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.225.111]) by server10.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C72BEE4CA1 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:57:37 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <083301c3d99a$49017890$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:58:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Second post first: Hee, yeah, our answers sort of crossed--I didn't pick yours out of the 200+ I've yet to read until after I posted. A local source for tiny soldered rings? Yay, where? I've checked Joann's and etc in the past (but not since I moved here) with no luck; the best I've found was 5/16" OD welded steel rings at Lowes, but they never had more than a few dozen at a time, and I want a few hundred. I'll be checking Fire Mountain as well. (The husband will be relieved to get his soldering iron back.) There's another, slightly later portrait that I remember showing hooks and eyes as well, but darn it all, now that I'm looking for it I cannot find it. I remember it being late 15th C, on a man's grayish garment, in nice portrait detail, but argh--I spent an hour looking through the files for it with no luck. If I run across it later, I'll post it. There are also a few of what are thought to be extant medieval hooks and/or eyes, but due to the nature of the finds the date is just way too sketchy (12th-18th century). On the text side, most of what I've found has related to the various groups who followed Menno Simons; increasingly fancy buttons were shunned in favor of the old-fashioned, plain, hook-and-eye, beginning something in the mid or late 16th century. However, that reaction was late enough (not required among the Amish until 1697) that 'old fashioned' may not mean anything to us. Most authors who mention hooks and eyes just repeat the 'really hard to date' mantra. (As an aside, I'd be interested in knowing if Gonella's costume would be more likely to contain 'traditional' bits than normal clothing, and how it would be affected by fashion.) On to fur lining. (Incidentally, the file names there are misleading; there are no more than 2 images from any single manuscript.) That quick selection of images was chosen specifically because the lining was not a key 'fur' color, such as white, black, gray, or brown. After probably-fur-white, black is the most common lining color. Dark fur was swinging back into popularity at the time in question, so I left those out--even the ones I'm almost certain were fabric, as the paintings were quite detailed and showed fur at the same scale. The women in the background of the Anne de Bretagne image are wearing what are probably fur-lined gowns. Anne herself is not; the insides of her sleeves are red, and the neckline trim shows no likely signs of fur. The Van Leyden painting depicts one of Lot's daughters, so yes, biblical. The narrow vs wide sleeve is a timeline thing; the wide sleeves become popular around 1490. Moving outside of the square-necked gown area, the sheer volume of unlined or fabric lined garments shown in paintings of this time make me sure that it was a very real option, and not just a saint signature thing. I love inventories; I truly do, and I want to see as many of them as possible... and I am actually very suspicious of paintings--I'd love to attend one of those symbolism in art lectures, btw--but honestly I just find the volume of paintings, portraits, etcetc that show unlined garments too overwhelming. If I had a week to sort, upload, and cut & paste, I could fill up my generous web space with 'em! (In general, I do gather that we have a small philosophical disagreement on what elements of a saint-heavy or allegorial image should be ignored. Sometime when the list is lagging...) Incidentally, the fur seems to get rarer as one gets closer to Germany, at least near the turn of the century--I think the heavy Anglican bias of available inventory information is indeed throwing things off. Oy, much more to say, but it's bedtime and if I want to finally get to the cloth store tomorrow so I can hoard--er, buy more wool, I gotta leave early. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 01:06:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D66aXV005290 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:06:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D6604S015740; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D65vTB081764; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:05:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D65sTB081730 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:05:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRE00DTHZLR1E@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:05:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:57:16 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040112215652.02565f58@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub> <5.2.1.1.0.20040112204350.02522e28@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:08 AM 1/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: >For making thread covered buttons: > >http://www.vertetsable.com/docs/elizabethan_buttons.pdf >and >http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_buttons.htm Oh, Thank you so much! These are just what I was looking for. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 01:06:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D66mXV005293 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:06:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D66C4S015772; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:06:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D66ATB081897; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:06:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D65sTD081730 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:05:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRE00DTHZLR1E@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:05:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:58:32 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons In-reply-to: <20040112.230920.-743977.3.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040112215728.0267cc28@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >"50 Heirloom Buttons to Make" by Nancy Nehring >Taunton Press 1996 ISBN 1-56158-146-1 Hello Karen and Helen, Thanks so much for the book recommendation. The pdf links I was given recommended this book as well. I think I will have to buy the book! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 01:32:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D6W9XV005353 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:32:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D6VZ4S017370; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:31:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D6VVTB093461; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:31:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D6VTTB093432 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:31:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27475 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:59:59 -0600 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:59:59 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <083301c3d99a$49017890$0400a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] This one goes private X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ... so we're not discussing our local shopping trips on the list ;-) > A local source for tiny soldered rings? Yay, where? I've checked > Joann's and etc in the past (but not since I moved here) with no luck; > the best I've found was 5/16" OD welded steel rings at Lowes, but they > never had more than a few dozen at a time, and I want a few hundred. > I'll be checking Fire Mountain as well. (The husband will be relieved > to get his soldering iron back.) Look at the Fire Mountain link I gave you, which is the search page for the soldered jump rings. The same thing is available locally here through the gemstone/pearl/jewelry wholesaler I use, about 15 minutes' drive east of me on Olive St. More expensive than Fire Mountain, but if you're buying only 100 or 200, the postage on the Fire Mountain mail-order will tip the balance and you might as well get it locally. If you want to go there (or want me to pick them up for you), let me know. I'm out there every couple of weeks, usually for findings. On the other hand, I order from FM every couple of months, so if you're not in a rush, let me know, and I'll add it to my next order and save you most of the shipping. > The women in the background of the Anne de Bretagne image are wearing > what are probably fur-lined gowns. Anne herself is not; the insides of > her sleeves are red, and the neckline trim shows no likely signs of > fur. I'll answer that on the list, but FYI, on the Medieval Woman calendar image, it looks like brown fur to me. Has irregular spotty markings. Tiny line of the same shade at her neck. > Moving outside of the square-necked gown area, the sheer volume of unlined > or fabric lined garments shown in paintings of this time make me sure that > it was a very real option, and not just a saint signature thing. Are you confusing my post with someone else's? Or is that directed to someone else? (I haven't caught up on all the posts yet, I think.) I didn't say a thing about saints except when I was guessing which figure you wanted us to look at in one picture (and the saint had a furred bodice, anyway). I certainly didn't suggest lack of fur lining was a saint signature thing! (And I wouldn't say that by any means. Fur is common enough for saints. In fact, it's interesting to see how certain saints are shown *outdated* styles of furs, as a sort of "historic" code.) And I *did* say I figured there were non-furred garments. My point was only that I wouldn't rely on the ms illuminations to make that case because the absence of a detail (or a color change) is not a reliable indicator in that medium. I personally think the inventories do make a sufficient case for the existence of non-furred garments, and probably portraits also in conjunction with that -- but the portraits you showed didn't seem to be the best examples, so I couldn't point to them and say "yeah, like that." > (In general, I do gather that we have a small philosophical > disagreement on what elements of a saint-heavy or allegorial image > should be ignored. Sometime when the list is lagging...) Again, was this meant for me? I didn't mention saints in this discussion, though I'll admit it's common enough for me to bring it up. I've had to wipe out too many of my own assumptions over the years regarding what was worn when, after seeing enough instances where an element appears *only* in allegorical contexts. But I don't eliminate allegorical images entirely; it's a matter of figuring out what elements *are* safe to deal with. Knowing the influences among various painting schools really helps (who was copying what from whom). > I think the heavy Anglican bias of available inventory information is > indeed throwing things off. In general, yes, for us English-speakers. I really would like to read medieval Flemish. The French researchers are doing good work but most of it is not published or cited by English-language speakers. Like we're operating on parallel planes. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 01:47:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D6l0XV005373 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:47:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D6kQ4S018313; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:46:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D6kPTB099627; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:46:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0D6kMTB099600 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:46:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27624 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:14:52 -0600 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:14:52 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] This one goes private In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, *that* was dumb. Please ignore my previous post under this header. Or at least ignore the chitchat about local shopping. The rest was probably destined for a public response anyway. Been years since I've done that :-P --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 07:52:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DCqiXV032447 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:52:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DCq44S010161; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DCpsTB045268; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:51:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DCpqTB045253 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:51:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-40-154.jps.net ([209.165.40.154] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AgO1P-000529-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 04:51:52 -0800 Message-ID: <001c01c3d9d5$356b6d00$9a28a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <061d01c3d815$af026b30$0400a8c0@compaqub><5.2.1.1.0.20040112204350.02522e28@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20040112215652.02565f58@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:00:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've made some buttons from Tammy's instructions and they are simple to do and come out beautiful too. Time consuming though. Have fun! Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons > At 12:08 AM 1/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >For making thread covered buttons: > > > >http://www.vertetsable.com/docs/elizabethan_buttons.pdf > >and > >http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_buttons.htm > > > Oh, Thank you so much! These are just what I was looking for. > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 08:02:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DD2CXV032480 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:02:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DD1Z4S010645; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 06:01:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DD1ZTB048676; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 06:01:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DD1UTB048640 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 06:01:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-119-104.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.119.104]) by msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BKK58011; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:01:25 GMT Message-ID: <081301c3d9d5$58ee2790$ef6e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:01:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Miser's purses or other beaded purse patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone come across any online patterns for these type of purses please ? Thanks Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 08:34:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DDY2XV032595 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:34:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DDXM4S012198; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 06:33:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DDXKTB061310; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 06:33:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DDXGTB061267 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 06:33:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A39A40462; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:33:14 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:33:14 -0600 Message-ID: <001501c3d9d9$cc127c40$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <001c01c3d9d5$356b6d00$9a28a5d1@pavilion> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ya- I made a little kit with thread, needle, folding scissors, piece of dowel about 1 inch long, beads and floss that fit into an Altoids tin and it just rode in the purse, so whenever I had a couple of minutes I would do another button. Many moons ago, but I still remember having it handy when I went to Jury duty; talk about multi-tasking! Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 7:00 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons I've made some buttons from Tammy's instructions and they are simple to do and come out beautiful too. Time consuming though. Have fun! Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons > At 12:08 AM 1/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >For making thread covered buttons: > > > >http://www.vertetsable.com/docs/elizabethan_buttons.pdf > >and > >http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_buttons.htm > > > Oh, Thank you so much! These are just what I was looking for. > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 10:32:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DFW2XV000697 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:32:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DFVM4S021233; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:31:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DFVITB022089; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:31:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DFVHTB022079 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:31:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02324 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:58:56 -0600 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:58:56 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown In-Reply-To: <400314C2.5000603@uvm.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Hope Greenberg wrote: > Here's another related question: > > This variation shows up in several places: > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp123.jpg > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp75.jpg > > These are by Gerard David. I haven't collected very many images of this > style. Has anyone noticed if they are associated with "saints-wear" or > gowns that would not be worn by real people? In addition to the various things people have already mentioned, I'd class the brocade hem band in illus. #2 as a "fantasy figure" element. I don't think I've seen that touch on "normal" clothing. Elaborated hems (goldwork, jewels) do pop up on saints, mythological characters, angels, and sometimes historical royalty. The "Lady" in the Cluny tapestry has some embellished hems, along with quite a number of other "goddess" details -- even if the lady being pictured was a real woman, she is presented in those tapestries dressed as a fantasy figure. In Bruges I saw a painting of the last judgment in which people in plain white robes were being admitted into heaven -- and each was being given a robe with a jeweled hem. If anyone does see a good non-symbolic use of a hem band like this in 15th c. or earlier, I'd like to know. Of course, fur bands in realistic contexts are plentiful (and practical). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 11:00:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DG0HXV000848 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:00:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DFxf4S024228; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:59:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DFxcTB040487; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:59:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0DFxZTB040425 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:59:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OqtUvVVWF0puIZU7i3zdbgY=">; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:58:58 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JKSNDDA3; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:58:58 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:19:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Message-ID: <20040113.075823.1540.5.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat writes: > But the main point is that even if there is a shift from mostly > furred to rarely furred (which probably happens in the second half > of > the 16th C especially, even from my reading), there were still > plenty > of unfurred garments around. (It seems to me that as the furred > garments segue into fabric lined, so do the trained dresses segue > into untrained "round gowns".) "Round gowns"?? Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 11:47:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DGlVXV001049 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:47:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DGhv4S029497; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:43:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DGhoTB071985; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:43:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net (imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DGhlTB071879 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:43:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from apollonia@bellsouth.net) Received: from gary ([66.20.171.6]) by imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040113164340.WPRI1944.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@gary> for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:43:40 -0500 From: "Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi" To: "H-Costume" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:45:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Anyone have a description of this book on Chinese Costume? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chinese Clothing: Costumes, Adornments, Culture by Shaorong Yang Many thanks! Apollonia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 11:49:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DGnuXV001059 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:49:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DGnI4S000339; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:49:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DGnHTB076001; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:49:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DGnATB075930 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:49:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip104.207-173-125.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.125.104]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D77E66A796 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:49:08 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:49:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Message-ID: <4003B105.19764.86B2856@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20040113.075823.1540.5.Cley@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Kat writes: > > But the main point is that even if there is a shift from mostly > > furred to rarely furred (which probably happens in the second half > > of the 16th C especially, even from my reading), there were still > > plenty of unfurred garments around. (It seems to me that as the > > furred garments segue into fabric lined, so do the trained dresses > > segue into untrained "round gowns".) > > "Round gowns"?? They come in various sorts (a German round gown of ...., a French round gown..., etc.) Basically, it was their way of saying "untrained." Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 11:55:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DGtTXV001085 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:55:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DGsl4S001121; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:54:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DGsjTB079861; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:54:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.fidnet.com (two.fidnet.com [216.229.64.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0DGsgTB079736 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:54:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lsharp@fidnet.com) Received: (qmail 15710 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2004 16:54:36 -0000 Received: from 64-251-141-164-dialup-mo.fidnet.com (HELO oemcomputer) (64.251.141.164) by mail.fidnet.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2004 16:54:36 -0000 Message-ID: <000d01c3d9f5$e2420be0$a48dfb40@oemcomputer> From: "Lori Sharpsteen" To: References: <200401131605.i0DG5ITD044417@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:54:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: steel rings at Lowe's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I work for a Lowe's in Rolla, Mo. If you ask them to they can order the rings for you in any quantity you need. Ask for a Dept manager and they can get them in. If it's a stock item (and I'm sure they are) they can get them in without you having to pay for them in advance. Lori S _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 12:14:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DHDxXV001201 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:13:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DG5A4S024911; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:05:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DG59TB044280; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:05:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DG53TB044235 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:05:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02572 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:32:43 -0600 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:32:43 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown In-Reply-To: <4003093F.14586.5DBC9DC@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > I've only gotten them from published studies. The easiest one to > > > find is The Inventories of Henry VIII edited by David Starkey. > > But that isn't the only place I've found them. Just the easiest to > find. OK. I wasn't sure if you were picking up on Hope's passing mention of Tudor (though she was actually asking about 1490s Flanders), which might have been confusing if you hadn't seen her earlier post describing her project. (And I bet you, too, can see how some reader, not thinking it through, might blithely go out and use a 1547 English reference to document a 1490s Flemish style because she saw it on h-cost ;-) ) > One thing to point out is that if you are looking at "is it possible > to wear a gown (since it is considerably warmer where the modern > wearer is than it was in the places the modern wearer wants to > emulate) which is unfurred (so "I" don't have heat stroke or have to > hock something to be able to afford it)?" vs "What is the most common > lining fabric of this period?" you are going to come up with different > information. True. In my case, my focus is generally on "what did they do?" whereas "How can I adapt this?" is a more practical question I don't routinely find myself dealing with (unlike most of the people on this list!). I figure that those who do reproductions will end up deciding how best to apply the historical information to their own circumstances/needs/scenarios/materials. > Just opening _The Wardrobe Accounts of King Edward the Fourth_ (who is > admittedly English) I found "a demy gown of grene velvet and a gowne > of grene damash, bothe gownes lyned with blac satin..." with only a > quick flip through. Edward is 1480. (This is a man's inventory, by the > way.) I don't think I've seen that book ... a little later than my focus, so it might not have registered for me, but it would probably be a useful addition to my collection. Can you tell me more? I have the Henry VIII inventory (vol. 1, the transcript), and I'm seriously thinking of selling it. I have rarely opened it (not my period at all), and I could really use the cash. It's out of print, and I'm seeing online copies listed ranging from $150-$285. Interestingly, I also see a listing for Vol. 2 (essays and illustrations) which I haven't seen even at conferences; it's selling for over $300 at one Oxford bookstore. > In the Privy Purse Expenses of Elizabeth of York (1502, but again > English) there are numerous mentions of payments "Itm for lynyng of a > gowne of black velvet for the Quenes grace.." to the tailor > (taillour). However, it seems that when a "gowne" is even repairing > fur, it goes to the furrier (well, actually a "skynner"). For example > "to John Hayward skynner for furring of a gown of crysyn velvet for > the Quene of Scottes and for two synnes of pampelyon for the cuffes of > the same gown.." So, it seems that at least in her books, if it is > lined with fabric it goes "to be lyned" to the taillor and if with fur > it goes "to be furred" by a skynner. (These are not as easy to parse > out as the inventories because you have to pick out the clothing bits > from the expenses for the servant to take the garments to be repaired, > the "bucckes" and "woodcocks" delivered at the same time by others, > etc.) Veale talks about the division of labor; sometimes tailors put in the fur linings, but generally that was the skinner's job. The skinner might also be responsible for cleaning and repairing furred garments. These roles varied by place and time; depending on when and where, the skinner might be someone who did the actual treating and assembling of skins, or someone who imported skins, or someone who sold finished skins that were processed and assembled by jobbers -- or any step in between. Her summary is based on legal documents, guild records, wardrobe expenditures, etc. and gives some really telling glimpses of who did what work when. > But the main point is that even if there is a shift from mostly furred > to rarely furred (which probably happens in the second half of the > 16th C especially, even from my reading), there were still plenty of > unfurred garments around. (It seems to me that as the furred garments > segue into fabric lined, so do the trained dresses segue into > untrained "round gowns".) In case it wasn't clear -- and I'm realizing it wasn't -- I was never saying there weren't unfurred garments in any of the periods we've been discussing. My cautions were mostly to warn people against making simplistic assumptions (e.g. because it appears here and there it must be common, or because it's done on certain styles it would be done on all styles) or applying data from too distant a place/time (as fur usage was undergoing dramatic change at this point). I think it's important also to have a sense of what's typical, and of the proportion of garments that were unfurred. It's often the case that a construction develops around the use of certain materials, and thus the standard approaches in place will have different effects when the materials are changed. (For instance, I remember reading about some 17th c. early knitted garments that were assembled exactly as the established sewn versions would be, even though those constructions were not an intuitive or ideal method for handling knitted fabric.) So it may be that if a gown style is normally furred, then doing it unfurred would have raised problems or issues at the time, which would then have had to be solved. So getting bodice puckers for an unfurred gown might not mean you're doing it wrong; you might be recreating a period dilemma that required period workarounds that would be seen as such because the standard construction was designed for furred garments. > I think I'd like to find a copy of Veale at some point. It sounds like > good stuff. Yes indeed -- a surprisingly good read. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 12:18:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DHIeXV001224 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:18:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHHO4S003896; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:17:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHHJTB096846; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:17:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHHITB096823 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:17:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from [192.168.167.44] (helo=wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AgSAH-0003lz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:17:17 -0500 Message-ID: <19790812.1074014237553.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:17:17 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin noted: >In addition to the various things people have already mentioned, I'd class >the brocade hem band in illus. #2 as a "fantasy figure" element. I don't >think I've seen that touch on "normal" clothing. Elaborated hems >(goldwork, jewels) do pop up on saints, mythological characters, angels, >and sometimes historical royalty. Or, as I recall you saying, "people who don't have to worry about getting their hems dirty!" ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 12:22:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DHMqXV001272 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:22:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHMF4S004478; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:22:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHMFTB000667; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:22:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHMETB000654 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:22:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093020.uvm.edu [132.198.93.20]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHMDUT023674 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:22:13 -0500 Message-ID: <40042946.7080101@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:22:14 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: <4002606C.31570.34852DD@localhost> <40029B4F.19185.42E5697@localhost> <400314C2.5000603@uvm.edu> <400319C7.90508@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <400319C7.90508@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: >> http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp75.jpg > This one has a tower on her hat, which means it's almost certainly, um, > Barbara? That's her "attribute," otherwise known as "medieval closed > captioning." I am confident in saying that regular women didn't wear > towers on their hats like that. It's somewhat subtle, though, for a Saint! Yes, isn;t that nice? He uses it again, though he gives her a different gown: http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/campbellp147a.jpg but in this one he seats her in front of a great big tower, so it's not at all subtle: http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/campbellp147.jpg hmmm...I have to get a better copy of this one. Mary Magdalen seems to be wearing a wrap front dress... - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 12:48:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DHmnXV001430 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:48:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHm64S007333; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:48:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHlpTB020595; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHlnTB020549 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093020.uvm.edu [132.198.93.20]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHlmUT028246 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:47:48 -0500 Message-ID: <40042F44.3010501@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:47:48 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 15th Cent. Short sleeve mid-sleeve gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I asked about the strange mid-sleeve: >>This variation shows up in several places: >>http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp123.jpg >>http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp75.jpg >> >>These are by Gerard David. I haven't collected very many images of this >>style. Has anyone noticed if they are associated with "saints-wear" or >>gowns that would not be worn by real people? Decided to take a cruise through the Web Gallery of Art and see what I could turn up. It turned out rather long, so rather than list it all here, I've thrown it in a web page http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th/15thshort.html I want to get more examples, but so far the conclusion seems to be "don't rush out and make one of these unless you are doing 15th century exotica." - Hope (who is into some serious work-denial this morning...and now back to syllabus writing, oy!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 12:57:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DHvXXV001463 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:57:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHur4S008550; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:56:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHuqTB028058; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:56:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHukTB027968 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:56:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093020.uvm.edu [132.198.93.20]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DHuhUT030131 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:56:45 -0500 Message-ID: <4004315C.4010903@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:56:44 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More weird hats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't remember if this has come up here or on the milliners list (probably both), but my morning's search for 15th century short sleeve gowns turned up two interesting hats that look rather like the Rogier van der Weyden wrap hat (http://www.kfki.hu/%7Earthp/art/w/weyden/rogier/10braque/3braque.jpg). For your pleasure and delectation, I've added them to the 15th century gown page at http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th/ Down near the bottom, look for Hugo van der Goes and Viet Stoos. Or you can get them directly here: http://www.kfki.hu/%7Earthp/art/g/goes/small2.jpg http://www.kfki.hu/%7Earthp/art/s/stoss/2closed/3bmary.jpg - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 13:24:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DIOaXV001548 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:24:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DINr4S012110; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:23:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DINoTB049297; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:23:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DINnTB049267 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:23:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@infotrope.net) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2162136D94; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:23:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AgTCc-0000nT-00; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:23:46 -0500 To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:23:46 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 17th century mailing list X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I'm pleased to be able to announce the formation of a 17th century living history mailing list. My previous researches turned up no general-purpose list for this subject, so I got together with Kass McGann and we created one. The blurb for the list is as follows: This list is focussed on the discussion of European and European-colonial 17th century life and culture as it pertains to living history, re-enactment, and other such historical activities. There are many organizations which portray the 17th century, including English Civil War groups, American colonial, and a range of groups set in various parts of Europe. Many of them have a military focus, and hence many of the mailing lists which discuss the 17th century discuss primarily military matters - pike drill, muskets, uniforms, and so on. This mailing list is different in that it provides a forum for discussion of non-military matters such as civilian life, clothing, food and drink, music and dance, art and culture, and other matters pertaining to the accurate portrayal of people living in the 17th century. So in short, a general purpose 17th century discussion list. Clothing, culture, politics, food and drink, you name it. Anyone who's interested may subscribe at the following address: http://reconstructinghistory.com/mailman/listinfo/17thcentury_reconstructinghistory.com K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 13:27:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DIRmXV001561 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:27:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIR04S012657; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIQxTB051763; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:26:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIQwTB051747 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:26:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AgTFh-0001PD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:26:57 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:27:13 -0700 Message-ID: <001301c3da02$dd9d5010$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <40030714.20301@optonline.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah! While in China I bought my good friend some special silk to make this jacket out of. We were going to do a test in linen first, but do let us know if you have any comments on the pattern! Thanks Saragrace -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of J.A.Urbik Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 1:44 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear chinese jacket this is just a YIPPY post. i don't know if you all remember that I had lost the pattern to the folkware patterns that i had bought. well, even thougnh I haven't had a chance to get copies from the library of books mentioned and i know know that there are perhaps more period (for what i am aiming at--will use this advise on the next round, in a couple of months-after i get the projects planed out). anyway, i found the pattern!!! in had been shoved into my "pantry" shelves in the basement, not the "sewing" shelves. just found it yesterday. jordana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 13:41:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DIfLXV001646 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:41:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIed4S014504; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:40:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIebTB062247; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:40:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIeXTB062200 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:40:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093020.uvm.edu [132.198.93.20]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIeUUT007803 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:40:31 -0500 Message-ID: <40043B9F.6040505@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:40:31 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: <4002606C.31570.34852DD@localhost><40029B4F.19185.42E5697@localhost> <400314C2.5000603@uvm.edu> <07db01c3d95a$0ef3d250$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <07db01c3d95a$0ef3d250$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO E House wrote: > By the way, 2nd painting, left sleeve? It flips up, then back down again; > the sleeves are longer on the outside than under the armpit. A couple years > back I spent hours staring at it before I figured that out, so just in case > you get stuck there too, there you go. Also, note the seams on her bodice! re: http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp75b.jpg I have a pretty large edition of the top portion of this gown but it might not be clear enough. I don't see any seams. There's the front opening (and the trim is split at the center front as well) and the pattern on the inside of the turned up sleeve is pretty clear. Are there visible seams? - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 13:50:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DIoRXV001692 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:50:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DInm4S015548; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:49:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DInjwp069345; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:49:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIniwp069258 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:49:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eirenetz@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.118 ([204.127.197.118]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20040113184939013005ffn8e>; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:49:39 +0000 Received: from [198.178.8.81] by 204.127.197.118; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:49:36 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mongolian Dells Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:49:36 +0000 Message-Id: <011320041849.29834.f1e@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 27 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The > way I understand it, broadly stated, earlier Mongol costume looked much like > this: > > http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/plate/102.jpg > or > http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/plate/104.jpg > Would these be for women or men? I have this to-die-for gold-colored brocade with Chinese dragons in roundel that I got at the Denver Fabric Annex about a year ago. I looked at it and said, "Mongolian!!", but have been having trouble finding pictorial resources that are pre-1600. I appreciate the links posted so far; if there're any more, it'd make me very happy.... Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 13:59:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DIxrXV001729 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:59:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIxA4S016876; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:59:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIx9wp075880; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:59:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIx7wp075812 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:59:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eirenetz@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.112 ([204.127.197.112]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004011318590201500fkh4be>; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:59:02 +0000 Received: from [198.178.8.81] by 204.127.197.112; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:59:01 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Mongolia: Legacy of Genghis Khan exhibit Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:59:01 +0000 Message-Id: <011320041859.6210.39ca@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 27 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I saw this exhibit when it was in Denver. It was my first up close and personal look at Chinese garments, and when I saw that gold fabric, *that's* what I wanted to make. Sadly, I didn't buy the exhibit catalogue then. I wonder if the gift shop still has copies.... Amazon shows the hardcover at $72.99. *yikes!* Eirene > Mongolia: The Legacy of Chinggis Khan, by Patricia Berger and Terese Tse > Bartholomew. 1995: Asian Art Museum of San Francisco. This was a catalogue > for > the exhibit that also was mounted at the National Geographic Society in > Washington. CSA members got to tour the exhibit with the ambassador from > Mongolia > and his family. It was great! > > Ann Wass > > - I too was on the National Geographic CSA tour - it was my first CSA > event! > > - Sorry for the one-liner, but it's a happy memory - the ambassador's > wife > blew me away with her descriptions of WHY Mongolian clothing is made the way > it is. > > - Allison T. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 14:05:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DJ5VXV001775 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:05:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJ4i4S017601; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:04:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJ4fwp079937; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:04:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJ4cwp079897 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:04:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093020.uvm.edu [132.198.93.20]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJ4bUT012711 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:04:38 -0500 Message-ID: <40044145.1030206@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:04:37 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: <07db01c3d95a$0ef3d250$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4003093F.14586.5DBC9DC@localhost> In-Reply-To: <4003093F.14586.5DBC9DC@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > (It seems to me that as the furred > garments segue into fabric lined, so do the trained dresses segue > into untrained "round gowns".) That's an interesting idea--as if all the inner technology of clothing, support systems, upper and lower body, etc.--are being reexamined with an eye to breaking them into functional component parts. (Hope, what are you talking about!?) OK, I mean, foundation become their own garments (corsets, farthingales, etc.) while gowns become upper and lower halves, joined or not... - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 14:09:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DJ9AXV001810 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:09:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJ874S018012; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:08:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJ86wp082336; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:08:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJ82wp082236 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:08:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1E4E3D0086; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:07:16 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1E059C01FC; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:07:12 -0600 Message-ID: <021e01c3da08$9d338a20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:08:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Class Reminder X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wanted to send a reminder that we still have openings for Juanita Leisch's class about Civil War Women's clothing at www.costumeclassroom.com . The last day I can accept registrations is Sunday. Sunday is also the last day to enroll in Franchesca Havas' Elizabethan Glovemaking class. Marna Jean's Restoring Parasols class for the January session is full. But she still has some openings for her March session. If you want to take this class register early. The January session filled up quickly. Marna Jean made the parasols for the film Cold Mountain. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 14:09:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DJ99XV001809 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:09:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJ014S016977; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIxxwp076432; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:00:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIxvwp076411 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:59:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093020.uvm.edu [132.198.93.20]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DIxuUT011701 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:59:56 -0500 Message-ID: <4004402C.1030601@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:59:56 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: I do better with hooks but lacing rings still >>have me stumped. Any tricks? > > Um, line it with fur? ;-) :-) The only fur I have on hand is an ancient mink coat, mostly intact, that I picked up for free at a local barn sale. Mink just isn't quite right... not to mention I don't actually complete enough gowns to want to spend time making something I won't be able to wear indoors! > Seriously, if fur is out of reach, then something else with the same > properties might help. Perhaps a layer of very thin leather, maybe > chamois, on the inside of the bodice? Noe there's an intesting idea. > I think that the general dismal failure of most 15th-c. reproductions > to replicate the drape, line, and fold patterns of medieval art lies > in the lack of fur linings. Hear! Hear! Like wearing gowns without the proper undergarments--it just doesn't work. - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 14:12:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DJCDXV001826 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:12:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJBW4S018317; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:11:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJBUwp084708; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:11:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJBSwp084673 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:11:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i0DJBPfb001691 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:11:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040113140638.00b6e2d0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:11:30 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <40044145.1030206@uvm.edu> References: <4003093F.14586.5DBC9DC@localhost> <07db01c3d95a$0ef3d250$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4003093F.14586.5DBC9DC@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tailoring revolution X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Hope... I was wondering when someone would make this connection. This is my favorite aspect of clothing research. Most of what little is published on it is under the heading "Tailoring Revolution." It's a fascinating corner of historical clothing. Technically, in English resources, it stretches from pre-tudor, to post-medieval times... usually just past Elizabethan. Bridgette >That's an interesting idea--as if all the inner technology of clothing, >support systems, upper and lower body, etc.--are being reexamined with an >eye to breaking them into functional component parts. (Hope, what are you >talking about!?) OK, I mean, foundation become their own garments >(corsets, farthingales, etc.) while gowns become upper and lower halves, >joined or not... > >- Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 14:25:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DJPNXV001904 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:25:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJOI4S019788; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:24:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJOGwp094092; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:24:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJOFwp094062 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:24:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093020.uvm.edu [132.198.93.20]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJODUT017131 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:24:14 -0500 Message-ID: <400445DE.1060707@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:24:14 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <021e01c3da08$9d338a20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <021e01c3da08$9d338a20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Other sleeve dilemma X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, one more question, then I promise I'll stop nattering on! I think I've asked this before but don't recall a definitive answer. According to recent practice, a 15th cent. short sleeve undergown can have a pin on sleeve. This sleeve appears in two contexts: 1) as a protective oversleeve in working women's clothing (where the undergown is actually worn as a gown, ex: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/work/mldacosta04a.jpg) or 2) as a decorative oversleeve that would show under an overgown (ex. http://www.kfki.hu/%7Earthp/art/w/weyden/rogier/10braque/3braque.jpg) The question, or rather two: 1) In paintings, is the decorative oversleeve always associated with Mary Magdalen? 2) Is there non-pictorial evidence of this type of sleeve use in the 15th cent. in Northern Europe? (I know false sleeves become common in the 16th and that the Italians--and even the Spanish--seem to be tying and untying bits and pieces onto themselves in many time periods!) I'm just wondering about the 20th/21st history of this particular practice. Certainly, it seems reasonable, but reasonable and actual are not always related in fashion! - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 14:28:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DJSPXV001917 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:28:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJRf4S020232; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:27:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJRfwp096426; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:27:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DJRewp096363 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:27:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAD2042615 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:37:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4004470A.9060205@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:29:14 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Class Reminder References: <021e01c3da08$9d338a20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <021e01c3da08$9d338a20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > I wanted to send a reminder that we still have openings for Juanita Leisch's > class about Civil War Women's clothing at www.costumeclassroom.com . The > last day I can accept registrations is Sunday. > How does an online class work? I've never seen one of these in action. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 15:41:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DKfaXV002399 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:41:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DKec4S027217; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:40:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DKeZDB046831; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:40:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0DKeVDB046792 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:40:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040113203351.91499.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:33:51 PST Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:33:51 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4004402C.1030601@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Some of the high quality 'fabulous fake furs' can work really nicely,too. They are'nt cheap though.I used a faux black fur that came out looking wonderful on the lining of a black ,gray and purple brocade for a burgundian. The skirt draped in luxurious folds around me . I was very happy with it. Albra Hope Greenberg wrote: Robin Netherton wrote: I do better with hooks but lacing rings still >>have me stumped. Any tricks? > > Um, line it with fur? ;-) :-) The only fur I have on hand is an ancient mink coat, mostly intact, that I picked up for free at a local barn sale. Mink just isn't quite right... not to mention I don't actually complete enough gowns to want to spend time making something I won't be able to wear indoors! > Seriously, if fur is out of reach, then something else with the same > properties might help. Perhaps a layer of very thin leather, maybe > chamois, on the inside of the bodice? Noe there's an intesting idea. > I think that the general dismal failure of most 15th-c. reproductions > to replicate the drape, line, and fold patterns of medieval art lies > in the lack of fur linings. Hear! Hear! Like wearing gowns without the proper undergarments--it just doesn't work. - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 16:21:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DLL7XV002602 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:21:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DLKS4S000877; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:20:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DLKODB072554; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:20:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DLKLDB072485 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:20:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05078 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:04:48 -0600 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:04:48 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailoring revolution In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040113140638.00b6e2d0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hope wrote: > >That's an interesting idea--as if all the inner technology of clothing, > >support systems, upper and lower body, etc.--are being reexamined with an > >eye to breaking them into functional component parts. (Hope, what are you > >talking about!?) OK, I mean, foundation become their own garments > >(corsets, farthingales, etc.) while gowns become upper and lower halves, > >joined or not... :-) Were you grinning in the back of the room when I covered this in the GFD talk in Boston? (Toward the end, where I talk about the chain of events following from the foundation dress to the corset and modern tailoring techniques.) On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, M Stewart wrote: > I was wondering when someone would make this connection. This > is my favorite aspect of clothing research. Most of what little is > published on it is under the heading "Tailoring Revolution." It's a > fascinating corner of historical clothing. Technically, in English > resources, it stretches from pre-tudor, to post-medieval times... > usually just past Elizabethan. Do you have any particular readings you'd recommend? I haven't heard the term "tailoring revolution" in any formal context. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 16:50:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DLonXV002679 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:50:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DLmf4S003902; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:48:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DLmcDB092723; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:48:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DLmaDB092700 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:48:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRG001RM78ZHM@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:48:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:16:19 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons In-reply-to: <001501c3d9d9$cc127c40$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113131423.00b10e70@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <001c01c3d9d5$356b6d00$9a28a5d1@pavilion> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:33 AM 1/13/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Ya- I made a little kit with thread, needle, folding scissors, piece of >dowel about 1 inch long, beads and floss that fit into an Altoids tin >and it just rode in the purse, so whenever I had a couple of minutes I >would do another button. >Many moons ago, but I still remember having it handy when I went to Jury >duty; talk about multi-tasking! >Betsy Hi Betsy I read the instructions last night, but I don't recall seeing a dowel as one of the needed items. What did you use the 1" dowel for? And I have bits and pieces of time while with my son, so I am hoping to have a little carryall with the projects inside to work on the buttons as time allows. I've been doing my blackwork embroidery in the same manner, and boy that really has helped move it along. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 16:52:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DLqEXV002685 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:52:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DLpd4S004164; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:51:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DLpcDB094910; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:51:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DLpaDB094889 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:51:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093020.uvm.edu [132.198.93.20]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DLpZUT017395 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:51:35 -0500 Message-ID: <40046867.7020509@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:51:35 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailoring revolution References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > :-) Were you grinning in the back of the room when I covered this in the > GFD talk in Boston? (Toward the end, where I talk about the chain of > events following from the foundation dress to the corset and modern > tailoring techniques.) Was the GFD talk the first one of the day? That was the one I missed due to traffic...darn! But seriously, that particular change in fashion is one of the most interesting as you well know! More interesting perhps than that other "constant" in the mutability of clothing--the inside out, front to back movement, i.e. the morphing of underlayers to overlayers and back again. - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 17:37:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DMb6XV002836 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:37:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DMaF4S009475; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:36:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DMaCsr027751; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:36:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from siscom.net (counterstrike.siscom.net [209.251.2.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DMa9sr027708 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:36:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drea@nospam) Received: from shell.siscom.net (unverified [209.251.2.80]) by siscom.net (BoogerMAIL) with ESMTP id 6479232 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:08:00 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:08:53 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown In-Reply-To: <40044145.1030206@uvm.edu> Message-ID: <20040113144206.E96430@shell.siscom.net> References: <07db01c3d95a$0ef3d250$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4003093F.14586.5DBC9DC@localhost> <40044145.1030206@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > That's an interesting idea--as if all the inner technology of clothing, > support systems, upper and lower body, etc.--are being reexamined with > an eye to breaking them into functional component parts. (Hope, what are > you talking about!?) OK, I mean, foundation become their own garments > (corsets, farthingales, etc.) while gowns become upper and lower halves, > joined or not... Very interesting field of study. I had a chance to examine a couple of gowns in Bath, a couple of years back, one a gown from the 1780s, one a round gown from the very late 1790s. Both were typical of their time period and type in their silhouette, but when I examined the construction I found that the same construction techniques (shoulder seam placement, sleeve shaping & attachment, stitching down pleats in the back section) had been used for both. The techniques familiar to existing mantuamakers had been re-used to create a gown with a completely different shape. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 18:18:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DNI4XV002995 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:18:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DNGe4S014862; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:16:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DNGbsr057438; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:16:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DNGZsr057425 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:16:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (syr-24-58-121-78.twcny.rr.com [24.58.121.78]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i0DNGXL5003831 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:16:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040113181209.01a72268@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:16:52 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailoring revolution In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040113140638.00b6e2d0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey folks... Yeah, the first thing that pops to mind is an essay in "The Age of Transition: The Archeology of English Culture 1400 - 1600" The essay is by Kay Staniland and is titled "Getting There, Got It: archeological textiles and tailoring in London, 1330 - 1580" In her bib she referrs to Cunnington and de Alcega among others. Bridgette / Mari > > I was wondering when someone would make this connection. This > > is my favorite aspect of clothing research. Most of what little is > > published on it is under the heading "Tailoring Revolution." It's a > > fascinating corner of historical clothing. Technically, in English > > resources, it stretches from pre-tudor, to post-medieval times... > > usually just past Elizabethan. > >Do you have any particular readings you'd recommend? I haven't heard the >term "tailoring revolution" in any formal context. > >--Robin Mari Stewart, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 18:37:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DNb8XV003080 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:37:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DNaK4S017058; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:36:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DNaHsr071527; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:36:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail.anet.net (mail.pixcamera.com [206.117.180.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DNaEsr071496 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:36:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rima@anet.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] [68.125.25.44] by webmail.anet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AFC11220228; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:31:13 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002601c3d5b5$cdf6db50$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> References: <002601c3d5b5$cdf6db50$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:35:42 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Rima Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Seeking pro-bono costume demonstration in LA X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi guys We all wish we had teachers like the woman I met recently. She teaches Middle School English in San Marino (near Pasadena, for the rest of you who are wondering), and I'm sure she inspires her kids to no end! She mentioned to me that she is looking for someone to come into her class to show costumes that would be appropriate for the plays the kids are studying. If you would like to do a Good Deed, inspire some kids, and maybe change a life, please please contact her: Karen Tezak tezak@comcast.net Karen says: > Right now the students are researching the history of theater (Greek, Roman, >Italian Renaissance, Elizabethan and Asian.) Each group will >create a toy theater,create a play and perform it. They might use a >Greek myth or fairy tale for their play, or write an original play. > >We will be reading Macbeth after they have completed this project. I wish *I* could do this, but I don't really have the stuff she needs. But I'm sure YOU guys do. I'm hoping one of you has some wonderful Elizabethan stuff to show, and maybe some experience in presenting info in schools. Anyway, I'm putting it out there.... Thanks! Rima _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 21:40:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E2e4XV004310 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:40:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E2dP4S003040; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:39:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E2dIsY069815; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:39:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12902.mail.yahoo.com (web12902.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0E2dGsY069793 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:39:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040114023916.61519.qmail@web12902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.48.41.31] by web12902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:39:16 EST Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:39:16 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Uppsala Cathedral Sture men's garments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello everyone, Someone gave me Patterns of Fashion for Christmas, and no sooner do I go flashing the yummy stuff hiding in there than someone commissions me to make one. Not that I am complaining. ;-) This is all great and well, but I have three problems: 1. budget - it has to be somewhere in the realm of reality, so limiting any labour costs for him I can, the better. 2. It's German. I have never done German. This stuff is nuttier than Italian by a long shot! 3. It's Men's wear. I do very little men's wear, and thus not overly familiar with how these straight-lined critters fit their clothing. Any patterns out there for undergarments that are usable for this suit, and even better, are there any patterns out there that comes remotely close that I can use? Any ideas would be deeply appreciated. Kathy --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 22:59:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E3xwXV004554 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:59:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E3xL4S008874; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:59:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E3xIsY004084; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:59:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0E3xCsY004024 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:59:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@64.175.41.161 with login) by smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2004 03:59:12 -0000 Message-ID: <007c01c3da52$c4f32b70$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:59:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Royal Ontario Museum patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I just found (and bought) a scaled pattern for three 18th c. dresses made by the Royal Ontario Museum on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2881380193&category=4856 0&rd=1), and of course as I hadn't heard of these before, I have to know more! Does anyone know what other patterns they released, and any suggestions (beyond ebay) for tracking them down? I searched the web for a few hours but didn't find anything beyond a brief mention in the h-costume archives. (Anyone have one they want to sell?) Thanks! - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 13 23:01:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E415XV004562 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:01:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E40S4S008964; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:00:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E40SsY004568; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:00:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E3xPsZ004122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:59:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0E40aKY019123 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:00:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i0E40aHQ019121 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:00:36 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:00:36 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401132300.36222.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 13 January 2004 12:32 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > I think I'd like to find a copy of Veale at some point. It sounds like > > good stuff. > > Yes indeed -- a surprisingly good read. Try www.addall.com. I located two copies that way several months ago. I would have bought one, except that I don't do 14th-15th c so it hasn't made it that far up my "wants" list. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 00:25:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E5PgXV004691 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:25:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E5Oo4S015222; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E5OlsY040913; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:24:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E5OjsY040871 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:24:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Appin1@aol.com) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.1d5.18538674 (4529) for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:24:38 -0500 (EST) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <1d5.18538674.2d362c96@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:24:38 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fabric shopping in Philly X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A bunch of us are heading up to Philadelphia on Monday to fabric shop. While I am familiar with the 4th Street fabric stores, I know there are others in the city. Can someone give me information on other fabric stores in the area? Thanks. Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 00:56:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E5uaXV004854 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:56:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E5tw4S017037; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:55:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E5tpsY052321; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:55:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0E5tnsY052305 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:55:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@64.175.41.161 with login) by smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2004 05:55:48 -0000 Message-ID: <005301c3da63$0f626530$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1d5.18538674.2d362c96@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric shopping in Philly Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:55:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ooo! you simply MUST go to Jo-Mar fabrics! Another h-costumer recommended this place to me about a year or so ago, and it's amazing. Huge fabric warehouse with rock bottom prices, plus a huge sale in January (you may be just in time)! I bought yards and yards and yards of wool and silk fabric for something like $200 -- enough to fill a box and ship home. This is what I saved from previous posts -- others on the list may have better directions: > I and Venango Streets (that's the letter "I") in the Kensington section of Philadelphia (just off of the Allegheny exit on I-95) > I don't know Philly well at all, but when I come off of I95, I take the exit for Bath/Alleghany (it's new exit 25), and turn onto Westmoreland St at the bottom of the ramp (mind you, I'm coming from the south). If you take Westmoreland, through all the stop signs and stop lights, It makes a soft Right turn underneath the elevated subway (you know your there when you see a support column in the middle of the street) and becomes I St. Then it's just a couple of blocks up from there on the Right hand side: building with JOMAR in big black letters. Have fun! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 01:47:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E6lOXV004921 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:47:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E6ki4S020286; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:46:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E6kfsY071599; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:46:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E6kesY071592 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:46:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRG0027LW5REM@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:46:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:43:29 -0800 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113222945.00b0ca50@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all again. While working on the doublet, I have found that I am short on the last bit of tailor's interfacing I have. It was something I bought at my local Hancocks a few years ago, so I went back to get some more, and no dice, they no longer have it in stock, and aren't sure when if ever they will get more. Apparently they are carrying more and more fusible stuff or stabilizers by the bolt, but the good old fashion non-fusible interfacings are disappearing, or so it seems to me and the lady I spoke with. The stuff I have is a 26" wide natural colored hair canvas, with a 1.5" red band along the selvedge edges. I know it contained wool and goat's hair, and a bit of other fibers. It was washable and dry cleanable. I don't know what it is called, so I can't google it. I found a Greenburg and Hammer's online catalog of tailor's interfacings and hair canvases, but I don't see this particular one there. The one I have is a nice weight for what I use it for, mostly doublets and such, but I don't know what it weighed so I could compare it to something new. I know I didn't pay a lot per yard for it, and I am seeing that many of the Hymo is pretty expensive. Any ideas on what I had, or what is comparable to purchase now? Should I use a 5 or 7 oz linen instead for the interlinings? I will not use a fusible, as I dislike how they react over time with the doublet I make. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I will need to deal with the interlining soon. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 01:50:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E6oAXV004930 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:50:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E6nb4S020462; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:49:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E6nbsY072583; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:49:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.k12.hi.us (honu.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E6nZsY072561 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:49:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from makani (makani.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.195]) by smtp.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26925506D8 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:46:13 -1000 (HST) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:48:13 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > 30 JOOS van Cleve: Portrait of Agniete van den Rijne - the much later > > gown that clearly shows the undergown layers > > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/j/joos/cleve/portrai2.jpg > > And this undergown isn't shaped at all like the "filler" pieces we've been > looking at. Yes, what is going on there? Smock, underdress, ?????, and overgown. Very similar to the painting identified as Catherine of Aragon by Michael Sittow at http://tudorhistory.org/aragon/youngcatherine.jpg English again, not Flemish. Perhaps that one should not be taken at face value. I have a print copy which is much clearer and she has a halo and the blobs around the neckline of the "filler" are scallops (pilgrim allusion?). In the print the overgown is dark brown and the filler is black. Thinking out loud--might there be some possibility that the black layer is some type of foundation which gives the smooth front silhouette? On the other hand, if so, putting it over the colored undergown doesn't quite fit in. annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 02:31:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E7VnXV029627 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:31:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E7RS4S022300; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:27:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E7ROsY084842; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:27:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E7ROsY084835 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:27:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-67.74.247.193.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.247.193] helo=4gxif) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AgfQx-0000Bh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:27:23 -0500 Message-ID: <00fe01c3da6f$f4683180$c1f74a43@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1d5.18538674.2d362c96@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric shopping in Philly Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:28:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You have to go to JoMar at 3525 I Street- a factory building filled with fabric (wool, silk, linen), designer bolt ends and legendary dollar tables. You can't miss it. We used to do several road trips a year. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 03:06:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E86rXV030907 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:06:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E85S4S024502; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:05:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E85QsY002388; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:05:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E85OsY002364 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:05:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRG002YWZSZEM@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:05:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:36:33 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Uppsala Cathedral Sture men's garments In-reply-to: <20040114023916.61519.qmail@web12902.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113230846.00b15dc0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Kathy, I recently did my first German outfit, and the best advice I followed was to join the GermanRenCostume mail list at yahoogroups (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GermanRenCostume/). They focus on German costuming, and have a wealth of information in their archives, not to mention many wonderful people with lots of info to share. Some of them are also on this list as well. I recall them speaking of the few costume patterns available for Germans, but I don't remember what their opinions were on which ones were any good. One men's pattern is the "German Puff and Slash Man", which I found at http://www.patternsoftime.com/cat47.html, doing a google search. I am sure there are other stores that carry this pattern, as I know Alteryears does. I have no idea if it is a good pattern, or not. On your other questions: "1. budget - it has to be somewhere in the realm of reality, so limiting any labour costs for him I can, the better." I saved the gentleman some money on his waffenrock by having a mutual friend of ours assist me with the skirt, which she used as a practice run for her own skirt. She had decided to do the difficult circular skirt with "organ" pleat that is sewn down. They both were happy with the results, and the lower cost. However, the sleeves... now that is where I used up a lot of time doing practice mockups of the elaborate sleeves he wanted. It's the puff and slash and padding that has gone haywire that had me pulling hairs. I warned my client ahead of time that those would take time, and hence money to do. I did manage to make it under expected budget, so he was happy. Be willing to practice first, and try to find already made garments that you can inspect, to see how others have done that funky German style. Good luck, and have fun with it. German costumes can be very colorful and is very different from ... say the stiff and staid English. Kimiko (back to that English doublet) At 09:39 PM 1/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Hello everyone, > >Someone gave me Patterns of Fashion for Christmas, and no sooner do I go >flashing the yummy stuff hiding in there than someone commissions me to >make one. Not that I am complaining. ;-) This is all great and well, but I >have three problems: > >1. budget - it has to be somewhere in the realm of reality, so limiting >any labour costs for him I can, the better. >2. It's German. I have never done German. This stuff is nuttier than >Italian by a long shot! >3. It's Men's wear. I do very little men's wear, and thus not overly >familiar with how these straight-lined critters fit their clothing. > >Any patterns out there for undergarments that are usable for this suit, >and even better, are there any patterns out there that comes remotely >close that I can use? > >Any ideas would be deeply appreciated. > >Kathy Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 03:18:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E8IJXV030918 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:18:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E8Hc4S025028; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:17:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E8HcsY006144; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:17:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41501.mail.yahoo.com (web41501.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0E8HZsY006115 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:17:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040114081730.41598.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:17:30 GMT Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:17:30 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Marquesate?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Royal Ontario Museum patterns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <007c01c3da52$c4f32b70$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, can't help you wit finding those patterns, but I do have to say that those gowns are in Janet Arnold, thus I wonder why they re-did them? Nicole --- Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > Hi all, > > I just found (and bought) a scaled pattern for three 18th c. dresses made by > the Royal Ontario Museum on ebay > (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2881380193&category=4856 > 0&rd=1), and of course as I hadn't heard of these before, I have to know > more! > > Does anyone know what other patterns they released, and any suggestions > (beyond ebay) for tracking them down? I searched the web for a few hours > but didn't find anything beyond a brief mention in the h-costume archives. > (Anyone have one they want to sell?) > > Thanks! > > - Kendra > http://demode.tweedlebop.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Email: nicole@kipar.org Website: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 03:33:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E8XwXV030952 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:33:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E8XL4S025649; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:33:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E8XKsY010997; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:33:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E8XHsY010961 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:33:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-38-143.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.38.143]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E8X8jJ024325 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:33:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040114002532.05a94310@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:25:50 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Miser's purses or other beaded purse patterns In-Reply-To: <081301c3d9d5$58ee2790$ef6e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Has anyone come across any online patterns for these type of purses please ? Mine are all on paper. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 04:35:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E9Z1XV031514 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:35:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E9YL4S028005; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E9YLsY030346; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:34:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [64.28.25.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E9WusZ029912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:32:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ingridgs@techarea.net) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [127.0.0.1]) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0E9RSi1006146; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:27:28 +0100 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id i0E9RRxB006142; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:27:28 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: decna.com: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:27:27 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Uppsala Cathedral Sture men's garments In-Reply-To: <20040114023916.61519.qmail@web12902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Kathy Page wrote: > 2. It's German. I have never done German. This stuff is nuttier than > Italian by a long shot! Actually, the Sture garments are Swedish. :) They've been discussed on the historiska.se web board, and one interesting thing I learned is that one of the Sture pluderhosen were built on a foundation of suede deerskin pants/trousers (I'm unsure of the correct terminology for that layer...). These are not mentioned in Arnold but have been displayed in Livrustkammaren in Stockholm). > Any patterns out there for undergarments that are usable for this > suit, and even better, are there any patterns out there that comes > remotely close that I can use? Apparently Anna-Maja Nylén has written a book (in Swedish) about the Sture shirts, "Stureskjortorna", but since I've been unable to find it I don't know how useful it is. Here's an online pattern that's based on an extant English shirt from the late 16th century: http://home.earthlink.net/~magdlena/shirt/index.html Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 04:35:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E9Z7XV031517 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:35:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E9X24S027956; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E9WvsY029916; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:32:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [64.28.25.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E9WssZ029905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ingridgs@techarea.net) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [127.0.0.1]) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0E9RSi1006146; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:27:28 +0100 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id i0E9RRxB006142; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:27:28 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: decna.com: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:27:27 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Uppsala Cathedral Sture men's garments In-Reply-To: <20040114023916.61519.qmail@web12902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Kathy Page wrote: > 2. It's German. I have never done German. This stuff is nuttier than > Italian by a long shot! Actually, the Sture garments are Swedish. :) They've been discussed on the historiska.se web board, and one interesting thing I learned is that one of the Sture pluderhosen were built on a foundation of suede deerskin pants/trousers (I'm unsure of the correct terminology for that layer...). These are not mentioned in Arnold but have been displayed in Livrustkammaren in Stockholm). > Any patterns out there for undergarments that are usable for this > suit, and even better, are there any patterns out there that comes > remotely close that I can use? Apparently Anna-Maja Nylén has written a book (in Swedish) about the Sture shirts, "Stureskjortorna", but since I've been unable to find it I don't know how useful it is. Here's an online pattern that's based on an extant English shirt from the late 16th century: http://home.earthlink.net/~magdlena/shirt/index.html Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 04:55:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0E9tvXV031559 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:55:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E9dY4S028252; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:39:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E9dYsY031919; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E9dWsY031895 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:39:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-124-231.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.124.231]) by msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BKL10718; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:39:27 GMT Message-ID: <09a801c3da82$4c1d7b30$ef6e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20040114002532.05a94310@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Miser's purses or other beaded purse patterns Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:39:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Mine are all on paper. where did you get them ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 06:43:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EBhjXV031858 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 06:43:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EBh84S005466; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:43:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EBh5sY074602; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:43:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EBh1sZ074583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:43:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0EBeCPp002354 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 06:40:12 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 06:40:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40052B8C.4010007@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 06:44:12 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric shopping in Philly References: <1d5.18538674.2d362c96@aol.com> <00fe01c3da6f$f4683180$c1f74a43@4gxif> In-Reply-To: <00fe01c3da6f$f4683180$c1f74a43@4gxif> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Helen Pinto wrote: > You have to go to JoMar at 3525 I Street- a factory building filled with > fabric (wool, silk, linen), designer bolt ends and legendary dollar tables. > You can't miss it. We used to do several road trips a year. IIRC, the first floor is all clothing and such; the fabric is on a different floor. They have satellite locations as well. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Ask yourself - "How would Sauron have described the situation?" And then -- "What might 'really' have happened?" -- David Brin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 10:39:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EFd2XV001254 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:39:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EFcJ4S021215; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:38:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EFc8sY075401; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:38:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EFc6sY075385 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:38:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093020.uvm.edu [132.198.93.20]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EFc5UT013505 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:38:05 -0500 Message-ID: <4005625A.8050605@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:38:02 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO annora wrote: > Perhaps that one should not be taken at face value. I have a > print copy which is much clearer and she has a halo and the blobs around > the neckline of the "filler" are scallops (pilgrim allusion?). In the > print the overgown is dark brown and the filler is black. I have a couple pics of this image: Full picture: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/aragon.jpg Bodice detail: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/aragon-detail.jpg Bodice detail with contrast heightened so you can see the binding/trim/edge of the overgown: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/aragon3.jpg You're right about the scallops--they are the symbol of that wildly favorite medieval pilgrimage site, Santiago de Compostela. Catherine travelled there from southern Spain on the way to her marriage to Arthur in Britain. From this image it looks like the scallops trim the neckline of a front-closing undergown, which is covered by an overgown. In the detail image it appears that the overgown is covering just a bit of one of the shells, hence my belief that the shells are trim on the undergown. As we don;t see her lower arms it is impossible to tell whether the undergown has long sleeves. The overgown doesn't seem particularly snug and there is a suggestion of fullness in the overgown sleeves. I'm not sure if the bit of yellow you see at the center is something else, or a discoloration of the shift layer. - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 10:53:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EFrQXV001332 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:53:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EFqm4S022419; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:52:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EFqlsY083979; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:52:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0EFqisY083908 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:52:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rachel_holliday@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040114150027.49761.qmail@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.157.217.73] by web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:00:27 GMT Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:00:27 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Uppsala Cathedral Sture men's garments To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040114023916.61519.qmail@web12902.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathy, There is in fact an article which details the pattern of the shirt worn by Nils Sture, and I have made a copy of it. It is a seriously simple pattern, as there isn't a curved line or angle in it at all. It is all rectangles and squares. I'll try and dig the citation for the journal out for you, unless someone beats me to it. Rachel --- Kathy Page wrote: > Hello everyone, > > Someone gave me Patterns of Fashion for Christmas, and no sooner do I go flashing the yummy > stuff hiding in there than someone commissions me to make one. Not that I am complaining. ;-) > This is all great and well, but I have three problems: > > 1. budget - it has to be somewhere in the realm of reality, so limiting any labour costs for him > I can, the better. > 2. It's German. I have never done German. This stuff is nuttier than Italian by a long shot! > 3. It's Men's wear. I do very little men's wear, and thus not overly familiar with how these > straight-lined critters fit their clothing. > > Any patterns out there for undergarments that are usable for this suit, and even better, are > there any patterns out there that comes remotely close that I can use? > > Any ideas would be deeply appreciated. > > Kathy > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 10:59:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EFxjXV001351 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:59:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EFvu4S022865; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EFvssY087182; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EFvrsY087158 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i0EFvpHR019623 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:57:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040114105717.00b91fe0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:58:04 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Uppsala Cathedral Sture men's garments In-Reply-To: <20040114150027.49761.qmail@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20040114023916.61519.qmail@web12902.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whoa.... I would also love to have that citation.... Thank you Rachel. Bridgette/Mari >Kathy, > >There is in fact an article which details the pattern of the shirt worn by >Nils Sture, and I have >made a copy of it. It is a seriously simple pattern, as there isn't a >curved line or angle in it >at all. It is all rectangles and squares. I'll try and dig the citation >for the journal out for >you, unless someone beats me to it. > >Rachel Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 12:03:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EH32XV001749 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:03:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EH2P4S000583; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:02:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EH298H033433; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:02:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EH278H033350 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:02:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 519309 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:02:01 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:02:00 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113222945.00b0ca50@64.87.54.245> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Kimiko, One of my favorite stores near the L.A. Fabric district is B. Black and Sons on Los Angeles (West L.A.?) Street, just a few block out of the center of the district. This amazing store is a tailors' supply store, one of the few left on the West Coast. They have three floors of wools and wool blends and just about everything you might need for tailoring. They have the non-fusible interfacings like you're talking about, threads and 'things' you didn't even know existed. I don't have their address or phone number here at work but I know they have a website. They have the most incredible wools! And when you go to L.A. for Costume College this year, make certain to budget a couple of hours (and money) to get up there and shop. They've got a bin of skirt-lengths for $1 per piece all the way up to $200+ per yard cashmeres and other marvelous wools. And the more you buy, the better the price is. And their idea of a yard! I asked for 7 yards of fabric and by the time I got it home it turned out to be almost 8 - and the guy WAS using a ruler. It's not really a place to haggle, but you'll definitely get a good deal. They're friendly and really helpful. I go to LA only once a year but Jose there remembers us each time and shakes our hands, asks about our kids. I'm sure if you gave them a call, they could send to you what you need. LynnD On 1/13/04 10:43 PM, "Kimiko Small" wrote: > Hi all again. > > While working on the doublet, I have found that I am short on the last bit > of tailor's interfacing I have. It was something I bought at my local > Hancocks a few years ago, so I went back to get some more, and no dice, > they no longer have it in stock, and aren't sure when if ever they will get > more. Apparently they are carrying more and more fusible stuff or > stabilizers by the bolt, but the good old fashion non-fusible interfacings > are disappearing, or so it seems to me and the lady I spoke with. > > The stuff I have is a 26" wide natural colored hair canvas, with a 1.5" red > band along the selvedge edges. I know it contained wool and goat's hair, > and a bit of other fibers. It was washable and dry cleanable. I don't know > what it is called, so I can't google it. > > I found a Greenburg and Hammer's online catalog of tailor's interfacings > and hair canvases, but I don't see this particular one there. The one I > have is a nice weight for what I use it for, mostly doublets and such, but > I don't know what it weighed so I could compare it to something new. I know > I didn't pay a lot per yard for it, and I am seeing that many of the Hymo > is pretty expensive. > > Any ideas on what I had, or what is comparable to purchase now? Should I > use a 5 or 7 oz linen instead for the interlinings? I will not use a > fusible, as I dislike how they react over time with the doublet I make. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I will need to deal with > the interlining soon. > > Kimiko > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 12:09:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EH9QXV001769 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:09:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EH8m4S001348; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:08:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EH8l8H038395; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:08:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EH8d8H038293 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:08:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip219.207-173-174.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.174.219]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4E86A4C3 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:08:37 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:08:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Royal Ontario Museum patterns Message-ID: <4005071B.16974.DA36CEE@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20040114081730.41598.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <007c01c3da52$c4f32b70$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Sorry, can't help you wit finding those patterns, but I do have to say > that those gowns are in Janet Arnold, thus I wonder why they re-did > them? > > Nicole Perhaps because they were done differently than Janet Arnold (if you remember some of our recent discussions about errors in the patterns and the fact that they were not meant to be scaled up.) These patterns are meant to be scaled up. They even come (at least mine did) with a transparent grid sheet for the purpose: one square equals 5cm and have directions (albeit brief ones) on how to do it. I haven't pulled out the patterns and JA's books to compare them, but I suspect that there are differences since they weren't drafted by the same person (and perhaps not even by the same methods). While I don't know what their full line of patterns is, I have another one from them which is "Pattern Diagrams for Three Nineteenth- Century Dresses in the Royal Ontario Museum 1834-1843" which is the same sort of pattern (with the transparent grid sheet and all.) Kat > --- Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > Hi all, > > > > I just found (and bought) a scaled pattern for three 18th c. dresses > > made by the Royal Ontario Museum on ebay > > (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2881380193&categ > > ory=4856 0&rd=1), and of course as I hadn't heard of these before, I > > have to know more! > > > > Does anyone know what other patterns they released, and any > > suggestions (beyond ebay) for tracking them down? I searched the > > web for a few hours but didn't find anything beyond a brief mention > > in the h-costume archives. (Anyone have one they want to sell?) > > > > Thanks! > > > > - Kendra > > http://demode.tweedlebop.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ===== > Email: nicole@kipar.org > Website: http://www.kipar.org > > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 12:35:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EHZjXV001838 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:35:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EHZ34S004965; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EHZ08H059351; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:35:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EHYx8H059279 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:34:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:34:52 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:34:37 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Patterns from Museums X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am hoping someone here can help with this. I have done a little conservation volunteering for a small museum here in the midwest that has some very nice surviving costumes from the latter half of the 19th century, also a couple of dynamite flapper dresses. The museum is always in need of funds (what one isn't) and I was wondering about making patterns, and marketing the same, from some of the costumes in the collection. Anyone have any experience with this, or recommend a company that does this? Thanks, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 12:44:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EHilXV001879 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:44:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EHi74S006246; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EHi68H066528; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:44:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav45.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EHi38H066410 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:44:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:43:58 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav45.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:43:58 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113222945.00b0ca50@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:44:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jan 2004 17:43:58.0748 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD2CA5C0:01C3DAC5] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Should I > use a 5 or 7 oz linen instead for the interlinings? That's what I use, but I don't know how it will react with time, since I haven't gotten around to wearing anything that long yet. But I dislike fusible too, except when I'm doing machine embroidery or when I'm doing a quick job, such as fixing necklines of tunics donated to Gold Key (SCA costumes we use to clothes newbies who have nothing to wear). Not one of them was sewn right, I had to take them all apart. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 13:05:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EI58XV001966 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:05:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EI4N4S009072; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:04:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EI4I8H084259; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:04:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EI4G8H084227 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:04:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-010masprip0145.dialsprint.net ([63.186.160.145]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AgpNH-0002XB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:04:15 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:04:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll emerge from lurking.... Have you tried Sew True, in New York's garment center? Their many interfacings and tailoring supplies include "hair cloth" and a number of other sew-ins. They have a very extensive catalog of tailoring supplies and equipment and also a website, www.sewtrue.com. They advertise "prompt efficient and courteous service" and certainly fulfilled all three pledges when I placed a complicated rush order with them just before Thanksgiving. Their phone is 1-800-S-E-W-T-R-U-E, and the phone is answered by someone who knows the stock and can answer questions. Ruth Anne Baumgartner amateur costumer and scholar gypsy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 13:19:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EIJcXV001999 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:19:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EIIq4S011033; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:18:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EIIm7h094901; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:18:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EIIk7h094822 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:18:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 519656 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:18:41 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:18:40 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ruth Anne, thanks for the link. I rushed over there to see what they had and requested a catalog. However, does anyone know what bustle buttons or bustle thread is? I'm focused on 1887 right now and had never heard of these things. And of course, there are no pictures of these two specific items. LynnD On 1/14/04 10:04 AM, "ruthanne baumgartner" wrote: > I'll emerge from lurking.... > Have you tried Sew True, in New York's garment center? Their many > interfacings and tailoring supplies include "hair cloth" and a number of > other sew-ins. They have a very extensive catalog of tailoring supplies and > equipment and also a website, www.sewtrue.com. They advertise "prompt > efficient and courteous service" and certainly fulfilled all three pledges > when I placed a complicated rush order with them just before Thanksgiving. > Their phone is 1-800-S-E-W-T-R-U-E, and the phone is answered by someone who > knows the stock and can answer questions. > > Ruth Anne Baumgartner > amateur costumer and scholar gypsy > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 13:55:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EItWXV002287 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:55:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EIsj4S015033; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:54:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EIsf7h021408; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:54:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20212.mail.yahoo.com (web20212.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0EIsd7h021379 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:54:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040114185438.48922.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20212.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:54:38 PST Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:54:38 -0800 (PST) From: Angela Kessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] bustle buttons, thread (was: tailor's hair canvas) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Lynn Downward wrote: > However, does anyone know what > bustle buttons or bustle > thread is? I'm focused on 1887 right now and had > never heard of these > things. And of course, there are no pictures of > these two specific items. > > LynnD > My guess is that they're not for recreating the bustle period, but for modern bustles, which are most commonly seen on wedding gowns when the bride bunches up her train. I'd be curious as to the shape of the buttons, but I'd guess that the thread is heavy-duty, as these few buttons have to support the weight of the skirt train. -Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 14:24:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EJOvXV002387 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:24:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EJO84S018593; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:24:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EJO47h042311; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:24:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EJO27h042236 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:24:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@agesofelegance.co.uk) Received: from Imedia5043 ([62.255.132.195]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20040114192342.GBSS14639.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@Imedia5043> for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:23:42 +0000 Message-ID: <028601c3dad3$f1222fd0$0284ff3e@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Uppsala Cathedral Sture men's garments Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:23:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I made several of these shirts for the globe theatre a few years ago and > have all the notes somewhere if I can find them > > Dawn > Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear > http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachel" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:00 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Uppsala Cathedral Sture men's garments > > > > Kathy, > > > > There is in fact an article which details the pattern of the shirt worn by > Nils Sture, and I have > > made a copy of it. It is a seriously simple pattern, as there isn't a > curved line or angle in it > > at all. It is all rectangles and squares. I'll try and dig the citation > for the journal out for > > you, unless someone beats me to it. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 14:31:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EJVaXV002407 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:31:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EJUA4S019240; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:30:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EJU67h046525; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:30:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EJU47h046500 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:30:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.119] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6786FEE007A; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:20:24 -0500 Message-ID: <003401c3dad5$7a352ba0$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:34:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] building the library...again X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0EJVaXV002407 Status: RO Not quite on the "what did you get" topic, here are a couple titles that top my first of the year acquisitions. "Hats, History of Fashion in Headwear",Amphlett (Dover reprint. Now that I have most of the pictures memorized as to their origins of the previous dictionary of historical headwear, here is another volume to put me to the seach. "Whistler, Women, and Fashion" Mac Donald, Galassi, Ribeiro, and Montfort...year for the man and his influence on 19th C costume. Pics are great and can't wait to attack the text. "Couture Culture", Troy. Some what more of the same but from another angle. Fewer pictures but lots of 'Theory" on 19th-20th C fashion. And the gem of the day, "A Separate Sphere" dress-making in Cincinnati's Golden Age, 1977-1922, Amneus. Fabulous photos of real garments...With extended commentary of the crafters and artists of this time and place. Now for time to READ! Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 14:32:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EJWFXV002411 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:32:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EJVc4S019464; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:31:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EJVc7h047593; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:31:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20509.mail.yahoo.com (web20509.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.144]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0EJVa7h047575 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:31:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pennyrobertsho@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040114193135.14758.qmail@web20509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.64.35.14] by web20509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:31:35 PST Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:31:35 -0800 (PST) From: Penny Roberts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Uppsala Cathedral Sture men's garments To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <028601c3dad3$f1222fd0$0284ff3e@Imedia5043> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn Wood wrote: > I made several of these shirts for the globe theatre a few years ago and > have all the notes somewhere if I can find them > > Dawn > Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear > http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachel" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:00 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Uppsala Cathedral Sture men's garments > > > > Kathy, > > > > There is in fact an article which details the pattern of the shirt worn by > Nils Sture, and I have > > made a copy of it. It is a seriously simple pattern, as there isn't a > curved line or angle in it > > at all. It is all rectangles and squares. I'll try and dig the citation > for the journal out for > > you, unless someone beats me to it. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 14:54:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EJs2XV002489 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:54:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EJrT4S021512; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:53:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EJrR7h062114; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:53:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EJrQ7h062019 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:53:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 520175 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:53:20 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:53:19 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] bustle buttons, thread (was: tailor's hair canvas) From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040114185438.48922.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 1/14/04 10:54 AM, "Angela Kessler" wrote: > --- Lynn Downward wrote: >> However, does anyone know what >> bustle buttons or bustle >> thread is? I'm focused on 1887 right now and had >> never heard of these >> things. And of course, there are no pictures of >> these two specific items. >> >> LynnD >> > > My guess is that they're not for recreating the bustle > period, but for modern bustles, which are most > commonly seen on wedding gowns when the bride bunches > up her train. I'd be curious as to the shape of the > buttons, but I'd guess that the thread is heavy-duty, > as these few buttons have to support the weight of the > skirt train. > > -Angela > Of course, it's probably a strong button that will blend in to the dress and the thread to hold up yards of bridal satin. Duh. All I can say in my own defense is that I've been focused on 1886-7 for the past few weeks and just saw what I wanted to see. And of course, it confused me. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 16:09:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EL9mXV002791 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:09:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EL8w4S029577; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:08:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EL8nCC014056; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:08:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp7.primus.ca (mail.tor.primus.ca [216.254.136.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EL8kCD014022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:08:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jhobbi2@po-box.mcgill.ca) Received: from dsl-207-112-126-85.tor.primus.ca ([207.112.126.85] helo=pheonix) by smtp7.primus.ca with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AgrLV-0007Gp-0A for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:10:33 +0000 Message-ID: <003501c3dae2$7a8a1680$3901a8c0@pheonix> From: "Joanna Hobbins" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Fw: [h-cost] Royal Ontario Museum patterns Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:07:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joanna Hobbins" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Royal Ontario Museum patterns > Unfortunately those two patterns are the only ones that Susan Barnwell > authored. > > I did a quick search of their library catalogue for costume and got 16 > results. They can be found at the bottom of this message. > > The ROM jointly publishes with the University of Toronto Press and the ROM > catalogue can be accessed from the UofT library > http://webcat.library.utoronto.ca/ > (under library select Royal Ontario Museuem Libraries). > > On another note I was browsing the shelves of my university library and came > across John Hunts Irish Medieval Figure Sculpture 1200-1600. A 2 volume set > that is a comprehensive survey of Irish sculpture. Volume 2 is just > photographs of the statues and there are nearly 350 plates. Vol 1 is an > analysis of the general styles and techniques through space and time as well > as a brief description of each individual stature complete with location. > > I'm quite excited, but I'm not allowed to look through it till after I > finish my physics assignments :(. > > Joanna > > Books on COstume published by the ROM > > Au Courant : contemporary Canadian fashion > Palmer, Alexandra, 1957- > Threads of time [videorecording] : handmade textiles for weddings in Fez, > Morocco > Mackie, Louise W > War paint : Blackfoot and Sarcee painted buffalo robes in the Royal > Ontario Museum > Brownstone, Arni, 1947- > Mannequins for the Royal Ontario Museum costume gallery > Palmer, Alexandra, 1957- > Pattern diagrams for three eighteenth century dresses in the Royal Ontario > Museum > Barnwell, Susan > Pattern diagrams for three nineteenth-century dresses in the Royal Ontario > Museum, 1834-1843 > Barnwell, Susan > In search of azure dragons : photographs of Chinese costume with > accessories from the collections of the Royal Ontario Museum : [exhibition > catalogue] > Royal Ontario Museum. Textiles Dept > In the presence of the Dragon Throne : Ch'ing dynasty costume (1644-1911) > in the Royal Ontario Museum > Royal Ontario Museum > Contemporary native art of Canada - the western subarctic : porcupine > quillwork - moose hair tufting > Cohen, Robin, 1953 Oct. 25 > Cut my cote > Burnham, Dorothy K > The Hungarian szür : an archaic mantle of Eurasian origin > Gervers, Veronika, 1939-1979 > Modesty to mod : dress and underdress in Canada, 1780-1967 > Brett, Katharine B > Costumes for Canada's birthday : the styles of 1867 > Burnham, Dorothy K > Isho : Japanese costume under the Tokugawa shoguns : a premiere exhibition > of Japanese women's robes and accessories from the 17th to 19th centuries, > lent by Mr. Shizuo Nomura > Royal Ontario Museum > Chinese court costumes > Royal Ontario Museum. Far Eastern Dept > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 12:08 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Royal Ontario Museum patterns > > > > > > > Sorry, can't help you wit finding those patterns, but I do have to say > > > that those gowns are in Janet Arnold, thus I wonder why they re-did > > > them? > > > > > > Nicole > > > > Perhaps because they were done differently than Janet Arnold (if you > > remember some of our recent discussions about errors in the patterns > > and the fact that they were not meant to be scaled up.) > > > > These patterns are meant to be scaled up. They even come (at least > > mine did) with a transparent grid sheet for the purpose: one square > > equals 5cm and have directions (albeit brief ones) on how to do it. > > > > I haven't pulled out the patterns and JA's books to compare them, but > > I suspect that there are differences since they weren't drafted by > > the same person (and perhaps not even by the same methods). > > > > While I don't know what their full line of patterns is, I have > > another one from them which is "Pattern Diagrams for Three Nineteenth- > > Century Dresses in the Royal Ontario Museum 1834-1843" which is the > > same sort of pattern (with the transparent grid sheet and all.) > > > > Kat > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 17:02:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EM2eXV002925 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:02:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EM1r4S005877; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:01:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EM1CCC050007; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:01:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EM1ACC049985 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:01:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRI003ZA2HW47@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:01:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:57:28 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114135206.0216daa8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113222945.00b0ca50@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi LynnD, Thanks so much about telling me what B. Black and Sons has. I knew I should have gone there last year, but they are on my first (and maybe only) stop for this upcoming year. I found their website: http://www.bblackandsons.com/ . But their online sources don't explain the differences between the different Hymo, hair cloth, french collar canvas 100% linen (like how is that different than other linens). I may ask them if they can send me samples of the interfacings, and see what happens. In any case, I am going there my next trip down to LA. I have been saying it for too long every time I see the expensive wools at Hancocks, and see the B. Black and Sons logo on the bolts. Thanks again! Kimiko At 09:02 AM 1/14/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, Kimiko, > >One of my favorite stores near the L.A. Fabric district is B. Black and Sons >on Los Angeles (West L.A.?) Street, just a few block out of the center of >the district. This amazing store is a tailors' supply store, one of the few >left on the West Coast. Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 17:10:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EMAnXV002945 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:10:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EMAH4S006866; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:10:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EM96CC055418; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:10:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EM94CC055364 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:09:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 520803 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:08:58 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:08:57 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114135206.0216daa8@64.87.54.245> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You're welcome, Kimiko. Apologizing in advance for being so vague, but I seem to remember one of the basic sewing websites, maybe Simplicity or Butterick, explaining interfacings. I remember that Threads Magazine wrote a really good article in the past two years on different types of interfacing and perhaps it is on their website. Maybe even Armo has their own website and they can give you explanations. I can't search for you today (I've avoided enough work for one day already) but I'm sure you could find something on Google. Best of luck, (oh, and please pass to us any good websites you find) LynnD On 1/14/04 1:57 PM, "Kimiko Small" wrote: > Hi LynnD, > > Thanks so much about telling me what B. Black and Sons has. I knew I should > have gone there last year, but they are on my first (and maybe only) stop > for this upcoming year. > > I found their website: http://www.bblackandsons.com/ . But their online > sources don't explain the differences between the different Hymo, hair > cloth, french collar canvas 100% linen (like how is that different than > other linens). I may ask them if they can send me samples of the > interfacings, and see what happens. In any case, I am going there my next > trip down to LA. I have been saying it for too long every time I see the > expensive wools at Hancocks, and see the B. Black and Sons logo on the bolts. > > Thanks again! > > Kimiko > > > At 09:02 AM 1/14/2004 -0800, you wrote: >> Hi, Kimiko, >> >> One of my favorite stores near the L.A. Fabric district is B. Black and Sons >> on Los Angeles (West L.A.?) Street, just a few block out of the center of >> the district. This amazing store is a tailors' supply store, one of the few >> left on the West Coast. > > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 17:16:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EMGEXV002954 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:16:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EMF94S007473; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:15:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EMDxCC059011; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:15:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EMDtCC058975 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:13:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRI007S232CQ1@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:13:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:01:59 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114135817.00b0ce10@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113222945.00b0ca50@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:44 PM 1/14/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > Should I > > use a 5 or 7 oz linen instead for the interlinings? >That's what I use, but I don't know how it will react with time, since I >haven't gotten around to wearing anything that long yet. But I dislike >fusible too, except when I'm doing machine embroidery or when I'm doing a >quick job, such as fixing necklines of tunics donated to Gold Key (SCA >costumes we use to clothes newbies who have nothing to wear). Not one of >them was sewn right, I had to take them all apart. Hi! I am thinking I will try the linen, as I have to line it in linen anyway. I have enough of the current hair interfacing that I should be able to use that just for the stiff collar, and interline the body in the heavier weight linen. I am hoping the doublet will be able to breathe easier, considering the hot summers, another reason to dislike the fusibles which around here aren't natural fibers. And I have decidedly gotten pickier about the costumes I see as "hand me downs" and loaners, as too many of them are first costumes, so people haven't learned what they know now, and it sadly shows. But I guess it is better than wearing mundanes! ;-) Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 17:17:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EMHSXV002960 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:17:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EMGV4S007610; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:16:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EMFKCC060032; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:16:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EMDtCE058975 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:13:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRI007S232CQ1@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:13:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:05:01 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114140331.0211a098@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:04 PM 1/14/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I'll emerge from lurking.... >Have you tried Sew True, in New York's garment center? Their many >interfacings and tailoring supplies include "hair cloth" and a number of >other sew-ins. They have a very extensive catalog of tailoring supplies and >equipment and also a website, www.sewtrue.com. They advertise "prompt >efficient and courteous service" and certainly fulfilled all three pledges >when I placed a complicated rush order with them just before Thanksgiving. >Their phone is 1-800-S-E-W-T-R-U-E, and the phone is answered by someone who >knows the stock and can answer questions. > >Ruth Anne Baumgartner >amateur costumer and scholar gypsy Thanks Ruth for the suggestion. I hadn't looked at this before, but the interfacings they have listed are polyester blends, no wool or hair types. Our summers are very hot, so I am trying for more natural interlinings, such as linen, wool and goat hair. ah, wait! They also have Hymo listed, separately. I will have to see what else they have, and may get a catalog as well. I will bookmark them for further explorations. And don't lurk so long. Your knowledge is welcome here. :-) Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 17:19:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EMJJXV002966 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:19:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EMIX4S007835; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:18:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EMGbCC060952; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:18:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EMDtCG058975 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:13:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRI007S232CQ1@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:13:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:09:14 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: Fw: [h-cost] Royal Ontario Museum patterns In-reply-to: <003501c3dae2$7a8a1680$3901a8c0@pheonix> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114140807.02167188@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:07 PM 1/14/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > On another note I was browsing the shelves of my university library and >came > > across John Hunts Irish Medieval Figure Sculpture 1200-1600. A 2 volume >set > > that is a comprehensive survey of Irish sculpture. Volume 2 is just > > photographs of the statues and there are nearly 350 plates. Vol 1 is an > > analysis of the general styles and techniques through space and time as >well > > as a brief description of each individual stature complete with location. > > > > I'm quite excited, but I'm not allowed to look through it till after I > > finish my physics assignments :(. > > > > Joanna Hi Joanna, Please share with us your findings on the Irish Medieval sculptures books. It sounds very interesting, and I am very curious about the Irish. Thanks! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 17:51:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EMpsXV003124 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:51:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EMpF4S011290; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:51:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EMpCCC084129; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:51:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EMpBCC084103 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:51:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRI003TP4T947@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:51:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:47:43 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns from Museums In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114143512.00b0ce10@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:34 AM 1/14/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Anyone have any experience with >this, or recommend a company that does this? > >Thanks, >Catherine I don't know if anyone contacted you privately, or not, like Margo or Kass. However, in a book I just got, Pricing Without Fear, by Barbara Wright Sykes, there is something mentioned about McCalls being able to create patterns for small entrepreneurs. You have to contact them and get their kit, and follow it. Their info as listed in the book is: McCall's Pattern Company 615 McCall's Road Manhattan, KS 66502 785-776-4041 If anyone has better info, please correct me or share their knowledge, please. Good luck! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 18:05:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0EN5sXV003164 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:05:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EN5E4S012727; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:05:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EN5CCC093727; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:05:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EN5ACC093707 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:05:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-17.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.17]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EN57PB020032 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:05:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040114145445.059003d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:04:51 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Miser's purses or other beaded purse patterns In-Reply-To: <09a801c3da82$4c1d7b30$ef6e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> References: <4.3.1.2.20040114002532.05a94310@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Mine are all on paper. > >where did you get them ? One is a page from the now defunct Old Time Needlework magazine. The others are from a fragile old book of my grandmother's or from various modern historical needlework reprints. I have a copy of Mrs. Pullam's and Mrs. (book not here, name escapes me) book, and one of some reprints of needlework from Godey's, each with several examples of beaded crochet purses. My Mrs. Beeton's ought to have some too. All these purses include the beads as you crochet. The misers are all pretty much the same shape, differing only in the exact surface design of beads and different colours. OTN magazine is so out of print that I ought to scan that page and post it on my web site. (Maybe tomorrow when I have more time.) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 19:31:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F0VZXV003419 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:31:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F0Ux4S021302; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:30:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F0UpCC045222; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:30:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12907.mail.yahoo.com (web12907.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0F0UnCC045216 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:30:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040115003047.11008.qmail@web12907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.48.41.31] by web12907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:30:47 EST Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:30:47 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Uppsala Cathedral Sture men's garments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko wrote: I saved the gentleman some money on his waffenrock by having a mutual friend of ours assist me with the skirt, which she used as a practice run for her own skirt. She had decided to do the difficult circular skirt with "organ" pleat that is sewn down. They both were happy with the results, and the lower cost. This won't help in my case I don't think, other than downloading labour onto him. There's not a lot of others that would be willing to tackle much of this around here. But it is a thought. I think there might be someone locally willing to give it a try for the sake of experience. Thanks for the thought though. And I signed up to the German Ren group. Thanks for the link. Ingrid wrote: Actually, the Sture garments are Swedish. :) They've been discussed on the historiska.se web board, and one interesting thing I learned is that one of the Sture pluderhosen were built on a foundation of suede deerskin pants/trousers (I'm unsure of the correct terminology for that layer...). These are not mentioned in Arnold but have been displayed in Livrustkammaren in Stockholm). Funny you mention that.... :-) I was talking about this new project with my Swedish friend and first thing he said was "those are Swedish names." Which totally confused me, and started wondering why on EARTH I thought they were German when they are Swede - wellll... Arnold doesn't ACTUALLY say where these men are from, and lump them in with the German Army drawings so it tends to lead one to believe they are German, not just sharing identical traits. Actually, my copy does mention that, it has all three in there, saying that the leather jerkin suit is considered the more "working man's" version of the costume. Apparently Anna-Maja Nylén has written a book (in Swedish) about the Sture shirts, "Stureskjortorna", but since I've been unable to find it. Thanks for the link. I'll see if my friend can locate that book. Who knows, he may trip on something. Rachel wrote: I'll try and dig the citation for the journal out for you, unless someone beats me to it. Oh please do! that will eliminate a lot of guesswork! Even IF its all rectangles and squares, its how they go together that makes the difference. Thanks so much for everyone's input. Next task for me: teach this guy how to make his own buttons! Eh.. he's enthusiastic and creative, I can't see that being TOO much of a problem.... famous last words, I know... Kathy --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 20:05:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F15OXV003524 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:05:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F14h4S024352; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:04:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F14fCC061930; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:04:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F14dCC061916 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:04:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Agvw7-0007N8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:04:39 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:04:38 -0700 Message-ID: <003401c3db03$8d1f2800$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113222945.00b0ca50@64.87.54.245> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would call Greenburg and Hammer...their online catalogue is not complete. They offer a set of samples of all their interfacings too. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 20:54:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F1sGXV003683 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:54:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F1qi4S028098; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:52:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F1qfCC085433; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:52:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F1qeCC085423 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:52:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lee@gw.retro.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id i0F1tkW15570 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:55:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:55:46 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200401150155.i0F1tkW15570@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "E House" wrote: > > A local source for tiny soldered rings? Yay, where? I've checked Joann's and > etc in the past (but not since I moved here) with no luck; the best I've > found was 5/16" OD welded steel rings at Lowes, but they never had more than > a few dozen at a time, and I want a few hundred. I'll be checking Fire > Mountain as well. (The husband will be relieved to get his soldering iron > back.) I was about to suggest Tandy Leather, but their smallest steel rings are 3/4" OD. That's probably too big for your purposes. Rio Grande has soldered sterling jump rings in a huge number of sizes and shapes And unlike Fire Mountain, they usually stock things expecting people to to order hundreds of a particular item. Probably the most useful sizes to you would be the 6.3mm, 16ga rings or the 7.9mm, 14ga rings. Those both come 10 to a package, but the pricing break chart runs up to 10-19 packages. They say to call if you want larger quantities. They have online ordering, but it assumes you have a catalogue there with you. If this stuff sounds useful to you, I'll mail you the stock numbers and price chart and you can take it from there. www.riogrande.com I personally find their catalogues dangerous to my credit card balance. And even my husband drools over their tool catalogue. ;} Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 22:04:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F34iXV003857 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:04:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F3394S004116; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:03:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F336CC018943; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:03:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts8.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.166]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F335CC018879 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:03:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elizabeth@alabasterstyle.com) Received: from Elizabeth ([67.70.38.147]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040115030257.LIRU3415.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@Elizabeth> for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:02:57 -0500 From: "Alabaster" To: Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:02:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Who buys authentic reproduction garments? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi I've been thinking a lot lately about reproductions vs original garments vs costumes. I think I have a rough idea of the reasons people buy authentic (vintage/antique) garments &/or accessories, as well as those who buy costumes - something made for entertainment, for re-enactors or general enthusiasts. What I'm not sure about is who buys pieces that are really well researched & executed as authentically as possible? I would imagine that the group would be small since authentic reproductions (or newly-designed pieces constructed using period materials & methods) aren't cheap or easy to find. Would a museum ever consider buying something that isn't an original artifact? I realize that many people who are very interested in authenticity actually undertake the research & execution of the work for themselves - what about those who don't want to do the work (or just can't)? If any of you have any ideas about who might find such work interesting or even what periods are of greatest interest, I'd love to hear them. Pondering... Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 22:51:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F3pNXV004008 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:51:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F3oj4S007117; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:50:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F3obCC038824; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:50:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F3oYCC038807 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:50:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AE0A1803E6; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:50:34 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:50:33 -0600 Message-ID: <006101c3db1a$bac79320$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113131423.00b10e70@64.87.54.245> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for the delay- the technique I was using involved wrapping thread spirally around the torus of a bead- my pattern left 3 different colored tails, which are then braided into a "cord"- which is pulled back through the center of the button- the one inch length of 1/4 inch dowel is to ensure a uniform loop/shank to sew the button on to the garment- the braid is overhand knotted on the side away from the loop and trimmed- I like to leave a tiny "tassel", which also help keep the knot tied. I don't know if this might be from the "50" book, but it was shown to me many years ago as a way to get coordinated "peri-iod" buttons for a doublet. I'd try to get you an ascii picture, but I'm even worse at that than I am at real art... -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kimiko Small Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 3:16 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] silk thread covered buttons At 07:33 AM 1/13/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Ya- I made a little kit with thread, needle, folding scissors, piece of >dowel about 1 inch long, beads and floss that fit into an Altoids tin >and it just rode in the purse, so whenever I had a couple of minutes I >would do another button. >Many moons ago, but I still remember having it handy when I went to Jury >duty; talk about multi-tasking! >Betsy Hi Betsy I read the instructions last night, but I don't recall seeing a dowel as one of the needed items. What did you use the 1" dowel for? And I have bits and pieces of time while with my son, so I am hoping to have a little carryall with the projects inside to work on the buttons as time allows. I've been doing my blackwork embroidery in the same manner, and boy that really has helped move it along. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 23:11:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F4BuXV004059 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:11:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4BI4S008389; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:11:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4BGCC047159; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:11:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4BECC047140 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:11:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lsinervo@earthlink.net) Received: from 209-165-60-018.jps.net ([209.165.60.18] helo=pavilion) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Agyqf-0000yh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:11:14 -0800 Message-ID: <003601c3db1e$d2be6220$123ca5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:19:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-ELNK-Trace: 9c05c41117f01b301aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec799e8ff5093688a6967f7df6556894635c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Gutenberg Middle English Dictionary release X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0F4BuXV004059 Status: RO FYI - project gutenberg has just released a middle english dictionary called A Concise Dictionary of Middle English _ From A.D. 1150 To 1580 by Mayhew, A. L. and Walter W. Skeat Released: Jan 2004 the page to search for it is http://www.gutenberg.net/cgi-bin/search/t9.cgi keywords "Middle English" will bring it up. Found spangles and a few other clothing terms in it at a quick glance. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 23:16:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F4GoXV004073 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:16:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4Ft4S008772; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:15:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4FtCC049100; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:15:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4FrCC049085 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:15:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jlkelley@ix.netcom.com) Received: from user-2injrg5.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.238.5] helo=Meza2K) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AgyvB-0005HU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:15:53 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:25:32 -0600 From: jlkelley X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.62r) Personal Organization: slight X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1954405543.20040114222532@ix.netcom.com> To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040112.074910.1776.3.Cley@juno.com> References: <20040112.074910.1776.3.Cley@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] help with costume convention information X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember sometime ago that there was going to be some type of costume convention in Atlanta this year. At the time I did not pay attention thinking that there was no way I could go but now there is a possibility. Can someone tell me the name of the convention and dates if it has not already taken place? Thanks, Jonica -- mailto:jlkelley@ix.netcom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 23:19:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F4JSXV004080 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:19:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4Ip4S008978; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:18:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4IoCC050317; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:18:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav50.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4InCC050291 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:18:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:18:44 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav50.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:18:43 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040112.074910.1776.3.Cley@juno.com> <1954405543.20040114222532@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with costume convention information Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:18:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2004 04:18:44.0249 (UTC) FILETIME=[A9E6E890:01C3DB1E] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.cc22.org/ Hope that helps!! B~ ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb For the month of January list people get $2 off shipping Check out the weaving books and Heraldry books http://snipurl.com/3pnf Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "jlkelley" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 14, 2004 11:25 PM Subject: [h-cost] help with costume convention information > I remember sometime ago that there was going to be some type of > costume convention in Atlanta this year. At the time I did not pay > attention thinking that there was no way I could go but now there is > a possibility. > > Can someone tell me the name of the convention and dates if it has not already > taken place? > > Thanks, > Jonica > > > > -- > mailto:jlkelley@ix.netcom.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 23:27:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F4RhXV004090 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:27:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4R74S009618; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:27:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4R6CC053938; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:27:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4R5CC053926 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:27:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jlkelley@ix.netcom.com) Received: from user-2injrg5.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.238.5] helo=Meza2K) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Agz60-0000YC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:27:05 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:36:44 -0600 From: jlkelley X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.62r) Personal Organization: slight X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <193664320.20040114223644@ix.netcom.com> To: Historical Costume Subject: Re[2]: [h-cost] help with costume convention information In-Reply-To: References: <20040112.074910.1776.3.Cley@juno.com> <1954405543.20040114222532@ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bice, thank you that is exactly what I was looking for! :) Jonica BdE> ============================= BdE> ----- Original Message ----- BdE> From: "jlkelley" BdE> To: "Historical Costume" BdE> Sent: January 14, 2004 11:25 PM BdE> Subject: [h-cost] help with costume convention information >> I remember sometime ago that there was going to be some type of >> costume convention in Atlanta this year. At the time I did not pay >> attention thinking that there was no way I could go but now there is >> a possibility. >> >> Can someone tell me the name of the convention and dates if it has not BdE> already >> taken place? >> >> Thanks, >> Jonica >> >> >> >> -- >> mailto:jlkelley@ix.netcom.com -- Best regards, jlkelley mailto:jlkelley@ix.netcom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 23:30:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F4UiXV004117 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:30:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4U64S009962; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:30:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4U5CC055112; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:30:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out012.verizon.net (out012pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4U4CC055092 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:30:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([141.152.140.115]) by out012.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040115043003.FQQW38.out012.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:30:03 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Who buys authentic reproduction garments? Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:30:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out012.verizon.net from [141.152.140.115] at Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:30:01 -0600 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Authentic reproductions are purchased by some reenactors. If you look at the Civil War repro work of Sekela, Childs, etc you will see examples of this. These are makers, unlike the more numerous and more inexpensive suppliers who use vegetable dies, hand stitching where required, similar weaving methods and so on. For some one who know what to look for the differences are obvious, and the campaigner/hardcore/ and to some degree progressive organizations require this. As far as museums are concerned, yes they to have been known to buy accurate reproductions. Recently for instance I saw a very good reproduction at a local fort. This reproduction was made no doubt because the original either did not exist or was unavailable. Reproductions are of course also replaceable, so they can be used differently. Textiles can be troublesome to display due to the wear that the very process of displaying creates wear to the garments. A reproduction can also be handled or felt if that is an important need for the museum. Lastly, an excellent reproduction can be used by costumed interpreters. Now do not expect much business this way. Most museums with costumed interpreters dress them appallingly. The average museum hasn't the budget for good clothing. Even many of the largest of these (like mine) can't afford first quality reproductions for all employees. A properly made reproduction is however a great aid to a first person interpreter. Errors in construction (such as machine stitching) can damage the suspension of disbelief in such an interpreter. Not only that, but the more accurate the clothing, the more opportunity for the interpreter to discuss the clothing itself. When I started at work our first person interpreters were dress more accurately than other interpreters. I never spoke with Sally Queen at the time, but I suspect this is much of the reason that she had done so. On the other hand the experiment she was conducting at the time with the shoemakers was improving their clothing, so maybe it was just her goal to improve all the costuming. Unfortunlty things have slipped backwards since then. I would suggest that you look for museums that use very few costumed employees, even more so those who are in character (first person). Many house museums for instance will rely all year on very badly costumed docents, but will for special occasions portray those who lived in the house. These are great opportunities for a few outfits of excellent clothing. Along those last lines, across the country their are little pockets of freelance character interpreters. These people are another very good choice of customer base though they can be kind of hard to find. Sometimes they link up to form sort of agencies such as LAHA, LHA, Virginia Patriots, Past Time With Good Company, etc. I do not no where you are, but if you can find one in your location they will be a good source of customers. The companies I mentioned are in California, Virginia, and England. One last possibility, though a very difficult one to count on, is Hollywood. Yes, historic costumers are quick to insult historic costuming in Hollywood. The movie industry does not need the kind of accuracy that you are looking at and yet they do occasionally demand it. Movies like last years "Master and Commander" like to brag about their accuracy. The new Colonial House series is another example. The clothing for that was done by the Tudor Group in England. These people do very good work. I know about this project because for a while there was some question if they could actually do all the shirts required in time and I was going to get a chance to make some of them. Some good friends of mine at work still did a good deal of research for that project (including Mark Hutter who is mentioned on this list occasionally). Even if such markets don't want the actual level of work you can provide, the reputation that you have built with accurate reproductions can get you work as a consultant. The negative point? This does take time. To get the money that this sort of work demands, then you have to get your name and more importantly your reputation out there. You also have to find the markets, which are themselves not always easy to fine. Good lick, Ron Carnegie Character Interpreter, Colonial Williamsburg Foundation Chairman of First Person Interpreters Professional Network (fpipn), Association of Living History Farms and Museums (ALHFAM) > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Alabaster > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 10:03 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Who buys authentic reproduction garments? > > > enthusiasts. > > What I'm not sure about is who buys pieces that are really well > researched & > executed as authentically as possible? I would imagine that the > group would > be small since authentic reproductions (or newly-designed pieces > constructed > using period materials & methods) aren't cheap or easy to find. Would a > museum ever consider buying something that isn't an original artifact? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 14 23:32:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F4WBXV004125 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:32:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4VZ4S010115; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:31:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4VZCC055698; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:31:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav24.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F4VXCC055659 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:31:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:31:27 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav24.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:31:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040112.074910.1776.3.Cley@juno.com><1954405543.20040114222532@ix.netcom.com> <193664320.20040114223644@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: [h-cost] help with costume convention information Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:31:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2004 04:31:27.0860 (UTC) FILETIME=[710CB340:01C3DB20] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not a problem. I just wish I could go! I'll be with you in spirit!! B~ ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb For the month of January list people get $2 off shipping Check out the weaving books and Heraldry books http://snipurl.com/3pnf Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "jlkelley" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 14, 2004 11:36 PM Subject: Re[2]: [h-cost] help with costume convention information > Bice, thank you that is exactly what I was looking for! > > :) > Jonica > > > BdE> ============================= > BdE> ----- Original Message ----- > BdE> From: "jlkelley" > BdE> To: "Historical Costume" > BdE> Sent: January 14, 2004 11:25 PM > BdE> Subject: [h-cost] help with costume convention information > > > >> I remember sometime ago that there was going to be some type of > >> costume convention in Atlanta this year. At the time I did not pay > >> attention thinking that there was no way I could go but now there is > >> a possibility. > >> > >> Can someone tell me the name of the convention and dates if it has not > BdE> already > >> taken place? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Jonica > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> mailto:jlkelley@ix.netcom.com > > > -- > Best regards, > jlkelley mailto:jlkelley@ix.netcom.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 02:57:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F7vwXV030483 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:57:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F7v44S022627; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:57:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F7uxCC037418; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:56:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F7uvCC037377 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:56:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A78D386008E; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:55:57 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A78A212011E; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:55:54 -0600 Message-ID: <02fe01c3db3c$c7540980$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:54:17 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Looking for Crochet Patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have taken up crochet again... last time I crocheted was in 1976... very easy thing to do without hurting my back or eyesight. I crocheted one of those long scarves for my daughter. These scarves are fashionable now. She is wanting one of those crocheted hats like Ali McGraw wore in the film Love Story. Does anyone know where to find this pattern? I am also looking for a pattern that was published in Family Circle or Woman's Day magazine in the late 1970s or early 1980s. It was a white bedspread with large blocks about 18 inches square. In the center of each square was a rose that was kinda 3-D... the color of the rose was red or a rosy pink colored. If anyone has or runs across this pattern, please let me know. I have been keeping an eye out for years. My departed mother-in-law made two of this bedspread and I loved them. I always wanted one for myself. BTW, while at Ben Franklins Crafts & More tonight, I picked up a free pattern for a long crocheted knee length vest like the ones from the 1970s. My daughter is dying to have one. Good thing winter lasts a long time hear! Yes, the 1970s is now considered historic!!!!!!!! Some like to say vintage but it is still historic. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 03:09:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F89fXV030505 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:09:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F88n4S023436; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:08:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F88mCC042655; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:08:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F88kCC042563 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:08:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA532A20088; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:07:47 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA5065000FA; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:07:44 -0600 Message-ID: <030a01c3db3e$62d09d00$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:05:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: Subject: [h-cost] America's Top Model TV Show X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone watched the new reality TV show, American's Top Model Search, on UPN? The show is produced by Tyra Banks. Open to hear anyone's thoughts. You can see the website at: http://www.upn.com/shows/top_model2/ You can click on each contestant photo to see photos and profiles. They are supposed to have photos on the site of the model's body paint/Garden of Eden photo session, but I can't find them. The photos were shown on TV for just a couple of seconds and they were beautiful. If anyone finds them, let me know where. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 03:13:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F8DTXV030514 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:13:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F8Cq4S023718; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F8CpCC044380; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:12:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F8CnCC044346 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:12:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB462B30088; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:11:50 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB42414028A; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:11:46 -0600 Message-ID: <031301c3db3e$e7d42080$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <030a01c3db3e$62d09d00$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] America's Top Model TV Show Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:09:31 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found the Garden of Eden / body paint photos at http://www.upn.com/shows/top_model2/episode01/photogallery/photos.shtml click on Portfolio One: Body Paint Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 03:33:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F8X6XV030567 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:33:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F8WQ4S024923; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:32:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F8WPCC051150; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:32:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F8WMCC051129 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:32:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRI008X6VPRW1@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:32:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:28:51 -0800 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040115002418.021359f8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I was briefly discussing a Tudor portrait with another costumer and she pointed out that on this portrait there is a white "strap" that goes over the dark gown's left shoulder and down the sidefront, but as the chains and her large sleeves are in the way, one cannot see what it actually is. The dress itself is very dark, brown or black, I am not sure. So the white "strap" stands out very clearly. The image is this: Portrait of Lady Mary Guildford, by Holbein. http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1528/2guildf2.jpg Any ideas as to what this white "strap" may actually be? Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams." - Eleanor Roosevelt LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/~sstormwatch/ e-mail: kimiko@kimiko1.com web site: http://www.kimiko1.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 03:37:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F8bIXV030574 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:37:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F8ag4S025114; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:36:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F8afCC052662; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:36:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav16.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F8aeCC052626 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:36:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:36:35 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav16.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:36:34 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040115002418.021359f8@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:36:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2004 08:36:35.0156 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF47F940:01C3DB42] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It looks like an undersleeve or chemise like for a tied on sleeve BUT I think it may be a simple white band that some women wore to show religous affiliation. B~ ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb For the month of January list people get $2 off shipping Check out the weaving books and Heraldry books http://snipurl.com/3pnf Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: Sent: January 15, 2004 3:28 AM Subject: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" > Hi all, > > I was briefly discussing a Tudor portrait with another costumer and she > pointed out that on this portrait there is a white "strap" that goes over > the dark gown's left shoulder and down the sidefront, but as the chains and > her large sleeves are in the way, one cannot see what it actually is. The > dress itself is very dark, brown or black, I am not sure. So the white > "strap" stands out very clearly. > > The image is this: > Portrait of Lady Mary Guildford, by Holbein. > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1528/2guildf2.jpg > > Any ideas as to what this white "strap" may actually be? > > Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 04:59:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0F9xeXV031270 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:59:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F9wx4S028965; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:58:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F9wsCC080769; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:58:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0F9wpCC080722 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:58:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@agesofelegance.co.uk) Received: from Imedia5043 ([62.255.132.45]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20040115095847.RYIS17928.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@Imedia5043> for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:58:47 +0000 Message-ID: <008001c3db4e$279f7700$2d84ff3e@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who buys authentic reproduction garments? Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:58:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I do a lot of work for museums as well as for re-enactors/interpretors who have been around for a long-time and have now decided they now want to do it well. My specialist market however is militaria collectors as the chances of them being able to find an original 18th or early 19thc uniform is pretty samll so they may have managed to find some accoutrements and want the clothing to go with them Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > even what periods are of greatest interest, I'd love to hear them. > > Pondering... > > Elizabeth > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 06:12:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FBCdXV031492 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 06:12:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FBC24S003813; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FBBuCC007286; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:11:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FBBsCC007270 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:11:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-17.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.17]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FBB7FB006816 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:11:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040115030052.05b609d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:11:47 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040115002418.021359f8@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I was briefly discussing a Tudor portrait with another costumer and she >pointed out that on this portrait there is a white "strap" that goes over >the dark gown's left shoulder and down the sidefront, but as the chains >and her large sleeves are in the way, one cannot see what it actually is. >The dress itself is very dark, brown or black, I am not sure. So the white >"strap" stands out very clearly. > >The image is this: >Portrait of Lady Mary Guildford, by Holbein. >http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1528/2guildf2.jpg > >Any ideas as to what this white "strap" may actually be? We go round and round on this periodically. Everybody has an opinion, myself included, but nobody knows for sure what it is. And Lady Mary isn't telling. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 06:13:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FBDFXV031495 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 06:13:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FBCf4S003835; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:12:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FBCfCC007526; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:12:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FBBtCC007273 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:11:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-17.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.17]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FBB7FD006816 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:11:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040115030229.05a60670@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:04:59 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who buys authentic reproduction garments? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I realize that many people who are very interested in authenticity actually >undertake the research & execution of the work for themselves - what about >those who don't want to do the work (or just can't)? If one works 60+ hours a week and still cares about authenticity, one can afford to commission really good (=really expensive) re-creations. The rest of us wear what we make ourselves. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 08:23:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FDNKXV031942 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:23:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FDDi4S010287; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 06:13:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FDDfCC053073; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 06:13:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (msg.ureach.com [63.236.74.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FDDeCC053060 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 06:13:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-81-137-92.asm.bellsouth.net [65.81.137.92]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i0FDDdhl015590 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:13:40 -0500 Message-ID: <006001c3db69$63cc7aa0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <030a01c3db3e$62d09d00$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] America's Top Model TV Show Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:13:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I watched it last season and the first episode this season (the only one aired so far). I liked it, but am not sure it is because I -like- it or because of some sort of morbid fascination! ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 3:05 AM Subject: [h-cost] America's Top Model TV Show > Has anyone watched the new reality TV show, American's Top Model Search, on > UPN? The show is produced by Tyra Banks. Open to hear anyone's thoughts. > > You can see the website at: http://www.upn.com/shows/top_model2/ You can > click on each contestant photo to see photos and profiles. They are > supposed to have photos on the site of the model's body paint/Garden of Eden > photo session, but I can't find them. The photos were shown on TV for just > a couple of seconds and they were beautiful. If anyone finds them, let me > know where. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 09:47:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FElTXV032228 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:47:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEko4S016425; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:46:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEkhCC092388; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:46:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEkfCC092363 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:46:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093020.uvm.edu [132.198.93.20]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEkeUT014207 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:46:41 -0500 Message-ID: <4006A7CA.70904@uvm.edu> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:46:34 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040115002418.021359f8@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bice d'Este wrote: > It looks like an undersleeve or chemise like for a tied on sleeve BUT I > think it may be a simple white band that some women wore to show religous > affiliation. The religious affiliation is an idea I haven't heard yet. Cool. Any details? Over time I've jotted down some possibilities along with my own interpretations of them them. Check out: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/whiteband.html - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 09:54:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FEsmXV032240 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:54:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEs74S016898; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:54:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEs6CC095725; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:54:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEs5CC095714 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:54:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ah8sm-0001ND-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 06:54:04 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Who buys authentic reproduction garments? Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:54:06 -0700 Message-ID: <003f01c3db77$6c84cea0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have just been asked by a portrait painter to reproduce a 1940ish gown which he purchased. He just like the style, and from the photo it doesn't even look like it is in bad shape...sounds like fun... Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 09:56:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FEu4XV032246 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:56:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEtQ4S017108; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:55:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEtQCC096429; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:55:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEtOCC096415 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:55:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ah8u3-0001m2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 06:55:23 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:55:25 -0700 Message-ID: <004001c3db77$9b810160$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040115030052.05b609d0@mail.frys.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Someone out there has a whole list of theories, but I can't remember who it is. It is on the web..... Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 10:00:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FF0OXV032266 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:00:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEwn4S017347; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:58:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEwnCC097993; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:58:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEwkCC097924 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:58:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.d4.31d91c0 (4262) for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:58:39 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:58:39 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who buys authentic reproduction garments? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/15/2004 9:54:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, saragrace@earthlink.net writes: > I have just been asked by a portrait painter to reproduce a 1940ish gown > which he purchased. He just like the style, and from the photo it doesn't > even look like it is in bad shape...sounds like fun... > > And last year I was asked to make an 1804-ish great coat for a sculptor who was doing a statue of Beethoven for a musical society in DC. Alas the project is on hold for now. Ya never know when these things are needed and wanted. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 10:00:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FF0jXV032270 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:00:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEwv4S017362; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:58:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEwvCC098084; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:58:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FEwuCC098077 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:58:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ah8xQ-0002j1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 06:58:53 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gutenberg Middle English Dictionary release Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:58:51 -0700 Message-ID: <004101c3db78$185b4920$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <003601c3db1e$d2be6220$123ca5d1@pavilion> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yep, and for those of you with an university affiliation it may be online with the OED...getting a grad degree has its perks too! Sg -----Original Message----- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 10:01:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FF1MXV032275 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:01:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FExh4S017426; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:59:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FExeCC098431; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:59:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FExdCC098383 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:59:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.8d.14499c2 (4262) for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:59:28 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <8d.14499c2.2d3804d0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:59:28 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who buys authentic reproduction garments? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/15/2004 6:12:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@frys.com writes: > The > rest of us wear what we make ourselves. > Which of course are perfect repro....oh never mind... :-P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 10:49:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FFnrVZ002211 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:49:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FFn74S023133; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FFn5CC027275; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:49:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav49.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FFn3CC027195 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:49:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:48:57 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav49.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:48:57 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040115002418.021359f8@64.87.54.245> <4006A7CA.70904@uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:49:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2004 15:48:57.0601 (UTC) FILETIME=[162EEF10:01C3DB7F] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Let me see what I can find. I've only seen a few (very few) refrences to this type of badge. It has something to do with wo men who either eventually cloister or do secular OR in certain times could not worship as they choce so used fashion to show it. ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Greenberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 15, 2004 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" > > > Bice d'Este wrote: > > It looks like an undersleeve or chemise like for a tied on sleeve BUT I > > think it may be a simple white band that some women wore to show religous > > affiliation. > > The religious affiliation is an idea I haven't heard yet. Cool. Any details? > Over time I've jotted down some possibilities along with my own > interpretations of them them. Check out: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/whiteband.html > > - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 10:50:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FFoVVZ002217 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:50:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FFnq4S023210; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:49:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FFnqCC027759; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:49:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FFnhCC027642 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:49:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f62.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.98]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B8395EE21B for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:49:40 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005101c3db7f$38038470$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:49:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] historiska.se web board X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0FFoVVZ002217 Status: RO Dear Ingrid. You wrote: Actually, the Sture garments are Swedish. :) They've been discussed on the historiska.se web board, and one interesting thing I learned is that one of the Sture pluderhosen were built on a foundation of suede deerskin pants/trousers (I'm unsure of the correct terminology for that layer...). These are not mentioned in Arnold but have been displayed in Livrustkammaren in Stockholm). This would be very nice for me i think. Would you please send some informations about this web board? Thanks a lot in advance Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 10:58:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FFwLVZ002257 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:58:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FFvU4S024144; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:57:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FFvTCC032432; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:57:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com (outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0FFvRCC032338 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:57:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail11.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.153]) by smtpout01.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAAPQBVAEYTBSJ for (sender ); Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:56:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCj+RFgksf5Tu79/8HX9WqDRH4C1Um7hdcw==">; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:56:09 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail11.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JKXSZNC7; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:56:09 PST Received: from [67.73.131.80] by webmail11.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:55:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.73.131.80] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Original-From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:55:35 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: seamstrix@juno.com Message-Id: <20040115.075609.22827.419925@webmail11.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 5:2:3315783654 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not sure if I'm the first/only one to come up with the idea, but I did notice and post to the list awhile back that the ladies who had that particular element to their costume were the ones known to have a Catholic rather than Protestant religious affiliation (where any affiliation is known). I have no idea if this is an actual meaning of the white band, or if it's trend created not by any period use, but by our imperfect understanding of the costume and limited pictorial references. So, right now, as far as I know, the white band=religious affiliation is simply an idea (I don't even think it could be dignified with the term 'theory') which needs alot of further research and investigation. Karen -- Hope Greenberg wrote: Bice d'Este wrote: > It looks like an undersleeve or chemise like for a tied on sleeve BUT I > think it may be a simple white band that some women wore to show religous > affiliation. The religious affiliation is an idea I haven't heard yet. Cool. Any details? Over time I've jotted down some possibilities along with my own interpretations of them them. Check out: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/whiteband.html - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 11:01:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FG1uVZ002272 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:01:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FG184S024604; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:01:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FG18CC034967; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:01:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav53.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FG16CC034896 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:01:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:01:01 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav53.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:01:01 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040115.075609.22827.419925@webmail11.nyc.untd.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:01:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2004 16:01:01.0397 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5997050:01C3DB80] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Karen, I just posted similiar thoughts. Great minds I guess!! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: January 15, 2004 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" > > I'm not sure if I'm the first/only one to come up with the idea, but I did notice and post to the list awhile back that the ladies who had that particular element to their costume were the ones known to have a Catholic rather than Protestant religious affiliation (where any affiliation is known). I have no idea if this is an actual meaning of the white band, or if it's trend created not by any period use, but by our imperfect understanding of the costume and limited pictorial references. So, right now, as far as I know, the white band=religious affiliation is simply an idea (I don't even think it could be dignified with the term 'theory') which needs alot of further research and investigation. > > > Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 11:22:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FGMJVZ002404 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:22:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FGL34S027268; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FGL1CC049237; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:21:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FGKtCC049167 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:21:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f62.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.98]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A0395EE327 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:20:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <009801c3db83$967514c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who buys authentic reproduction garments? Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:21:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Those people i join in different "clubs" Gustafs Skĺl in Sweden, ( a gustavian society ) are (mostly) very fine and authentic dressed. It is people who loves 18th century and many of them makes their own costumes and try to be as accurate as possible. When i can i do it myself. I spended a fortune this season on buying real expensive duchesse satin in silk for a new suit i want to make, and the embroidery i make on the costume, i make as accurate as possible two using embroidery silk threads, gold and silver spangels etc. In april i am going to Bath to join the Georgian Ball, wich deals with most of 18th century and many of those who comes are dressed very historically correckt, and has (if they could not make it themselves - had others to make them costume for the event.) Many of those people makes it a sport to find the correkt fabrics - materials, even if it is hard to find! I dont think you would be able to buy real 18th century garments to use for these events, they would not endure it, and therefore they have to make reproduktions. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alabaster" To: Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 4:02 AM Subject: [h-cost] Who buys authentic reproduction garments? > Hi > > I've been thinking a lot lately about reproductions vs original garments vs > costumes. I think I have a rough idea of the reasons people buy authentic > (vintage/antique) garments &/or accessories, as well as those who buy > costumes - something made for entertainment, for re-enactors or general > enthusiasts. > > What I'm not sure about is who buys pieces that are really well researched & > executed as authentically as possible? I would imagine that the group would > be small since authentic reproductions (or newly-designed pieces constructed > using period materials & methods) aren't cheap or easy to find. Would a > museum ever consider buying something that isn't an original artifact? > > I realize that many people who are very interested in authenticity actually > undertake the research & execution of the work for themselves - what about > those who don't want to do the work (or just can't)? > > If any of you have any ideas about who might find such work interesting or > even what periods are of greatest interest, I'd love to hear them. > > Pondering... > > Elizabeth > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 12:25:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FHPeVZ002598 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:25:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FHOr4S005323; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:24:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FHOmCC095050; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:24:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0FHOVCD094798 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:24:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2004011512242611726 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:24:26 -0500 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id i0FHOPj2009511 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:24:25 -0500 (EST) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] bustle buttons, thread (was: tailor's hair canvas) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:24:26 -0500 Message-ID: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F90A90C64@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F90D218BF@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They probably have them to self-cover so they match the dress fabric. Kate -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Downward Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 2:53 PM To: h costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] bustle buttons, thread (was: tailor's hair canvas) On 1/14/04 10:54 AM, "Angela Kessler" wrote: > --- Lynn Downward wrote: >> However, does anyone know what >> bustle buttons or bustle >> thread is? I'm focused on 1887 right now and had >> never heard of these >> things. And of course, there are no pictures of >> these two specific items. >> >> LynnD >> > > My guess is that they're not for recreating the bustle > period, but for modern bustles, which are most > commonly seen on wedding gowns when the bride bunches > up her train. I'd be curious as to the shape of the > buttons, but I'd guess that the thread is heavy-duty, > as these few buttons have to support the weight of the > skirt train. > > -Angela > Of course, it's probably a strong button that will blend in to the dress and the thread to hold up yards of bridal satin. Duh. All I can say in my own defense is that I've been focused on 1886-7 for the past few weeks and just saw what I wanted to see. And of course, it confused me. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 12:41:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FHfMVZ002667 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:41:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FFY44S021202; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:34:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FFY2CC017665; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:34:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FFXxCC017642 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:34:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-17.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.17]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FFXCFB003019 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:33:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040115073311.0597f100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:33:30 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who buys authentic reproduction garments? In-Reply-To: <8d.14499c2.2d3804d0@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > The > > rest of us wear what we make ourselves. > > > >Which of course are perfect repro....oh never mind... :-P Of course. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 14:36:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FJa3VZ003214 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:36:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FJZD4S020578; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:35:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FJZ5CC094879; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:35:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FJYxCC094751 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:35:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.126] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A91CC50D012E; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:25:16 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c3db9f$553dc3a0$7e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <02fe01c3db3c$c7540980$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for Crochet Patterns Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:39:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, I think I have the mag you are looking for but will need to 'form a search'. I'll try to do this in the next couple of days. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 2:54 AM Subject: [h-cost] Looking for Crochet Patterns > I have taken up crochet again... last time I crocheted was in 1976... very > easy thing to do without hurting my back or eyesight. I crocheted one of > those long scarves for my daughter. These scarves are fashionable now. She > is wanting one of those crocheted hats like Ali McGraw wore in the film Love > Story. Does anyone know where to find this pattern? > > I am also looking for a pattern that was published in Family Circle or > Woman's Day magazine in the late 1970s or early 1980s. It was a white > bedspread with large blocks about 18 inches square. In the center of each > square was a rose that was kinda 3-D... the color of the rose was red or a > rosy pink colored. If anyone has or runs across this pattern, please let me > know. I have been keeping an eye out for years. My departed mother-in-law > made two of this bedspread and I loved them. I always wanted one for > myself. > > BTW, while at Ben Franklins Crafts & More tonight, I picked up a free > pattern for a long crocheted knee length vest like the ones from the 1970s. > My daughter is dying to have one. Good thing winter lasts a long time hear! > > Yes, the 1970s is now considered historic!!!!!!!! Some like to say vintage > but it is still historic. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 14:45:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FJjSVZ003283 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:45:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FJid4S021721; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:44:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FJicCC002146; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:44:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14805.mail.yahoo.com (web14805.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.221]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0FJiXCC002091 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:44:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lorijaneleppink@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040115194433.7182.qmail@web14805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.65.146.151] by web14805.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:44:33 PST Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:44:33 -0800 (PST) From: Lori Leppink To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Making Authentic Period Clothing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! I am new to the SCA, and new to sewing period clothing, and I am just learning the techniques, etc., but eventually I want to get to the point of being extremely authentic and historically correct. In the back of my mind I have this idea of making and selling this type of clothing, jewelry, accessories, etc. I've become addicted, I think, to doing it, and I can never wear everything I want to make! I also have no idea who would be interested in buying it, because from what I've seen, the people who buy garb are not interested in authenticity, and the people who are make their own. But I am defininately interested in making it! Giovanna Vernaccia --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 14:52:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FJqnVZ003344 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:52:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FJpx4S022536; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:51:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FJpvCC007078; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:51:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FJpqCC007033 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:51:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from margo@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14b152.directcon.net [209.79.208.152]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i0FJwd606629; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:58:40 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040115114426.00b2a260@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:44:26 -0800 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns from Museums In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114143512.00b0ce10@64.87.54.245> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >I don't know if anyone contacted you privately, or not, like Margo or Kass. >However, in a book I just got, Pricing Without Fear, by Barbara Wright >Sykes, there is something mentioned about McCalls being able to create >patterns for small entrepreneurs. You have to contact them and get their >kit, and follow it. > >Their info as listed in the book is: >McCall's Pattern Company >615 McCall's Road >Manhattan, KS 66502 >785-776-4041 That's correct, Kimiko. The person to ask for is Dave Hoover, in the Commercial Printing Division. Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 15:03:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FK3nVZ003423 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:03:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FK2x4S023709; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FK2wCC014723; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:02:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FK2vCC014692 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:02:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-41-048.jps.net ([209.165.41.48] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AhDhf-0004N7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:02:55 -0800 Message-ID: <001201c3dba3$c77399a0$3029a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040115194433.7182.qmail@web14805.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making Authentic Period Clothing Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:11:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Giovanna wrote: > I also have no idea who would be interested in buying it, because from what I've seen, the people who buy garb are not interested in authenticity, and the people who are make their own. But I am defininately interested in making it! > There is a huge market for people who WANT authentic clothing, just not a huge market willing or able to PAY for what authentic clothing is really worth. But if you are exceptionally you can end up with a waiting list - partly because authentic clothing takes longer to make! Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 15:32:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FKWqVZ003608 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:32:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FKWA4S027079; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FKW6CC036038; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:32:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0FKW1CC035995 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:32:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 32484 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2004 20:32:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2004 20:32:00 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:32:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1051.24.4.69.40.1074198720.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114140331.0211a098@64.87.54.245> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114140331.0211a098@64.87.54.245> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:32:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Thanks Ruth for the suggestion. I hadn't looked at this before, but the > interfacings they have listed are polyester blends, no wool or hair types. > Our summers are very hot, so I am trying for more natural interlinings, > such as linen, wool and goat hair. > > ah, wait! They also have Hymo listed, separately. I will have to see what > else they have, and may get a catalog as well. I will bookmark them for > further explorations. And don't lurk so long. Your knowledge is welcome > here. > :-) > > Kimiko Kimiko, I know that the stuff Hancock's used to carry was called Acro and I thought Greenberg & Hammer had it. Yup, in their catalog from 2000 they carry it. it is $6.60 per yard up to 10 yards and goes down from there based on volume. If you looked on line, they may not have it uploaded yet. They also describe the Hymo you mentioned but it seems heavier than the Acro based on the description. Short of finding it online, I found hair canvas (of all places) in the upholstery section of a local independant fabric store. I know you live somewhere in the San Juaquin valley but if you can make it in to Oakland, the place is called Poppy fabrics. The best part is it is VERY wide and only like 8- or 12-something a yard which is a much better deal than 6-something for 26 inches. Let me know if you need more info..... -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 16:58:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FLwpVZ003998 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:58:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FLw64S007886; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:58:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FLw6CC005293; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:58:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav16.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FLw1CC005142 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:58:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:56:22 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav16.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:56:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040115194433.7182.qmail@web14805.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making Authentic Period Clothing Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:56:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2004 21:56:22.0007 (UTC) FILETIME=[69AC5870:01C3DBB2] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I also have no idea who would be interested in buying it, because from what I've seen, the people who buy garb are not interested in authenticity, and the people who are make their own. But I am defininately interested in making it! I think a lot of people who are interested in authenticity make their own not only because of money, but also because it's one of the only ways the can be certain of being "authentic enough" for them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 17:23:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FMNoVZ004129 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:23:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FMNB4S010459; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:23:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FMN7CC022774; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:23:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FMN0CC022709 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:23:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip67.207-173-174.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.174.67]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A32F06DFAB for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:22:45 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:22:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making Authentic Period Clothing Message-ID: <4006A23D.6746.2645524@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20040115194433.7182.qmail@web14805.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I also have no idea who would be interested in buying it, because from > what I've seen, the people who buy garb are not interested in > authenticity, and the people who are make their own. But I am > defininately interested in making it! Most of the people on this list like to make their own, so you won't be alone here. As for people making their own, that's the only way most of us can afford to have it as authentic as we'd like. The merchants rarely carry anything that is authentic enough to suit us. (There are rare exceptions such as Desert Torch Tailoring.) However, the more authentic they are, the more work often goes into them so they end up being more expensive. The merchants cater to people who want something quickly and want it inexpensive. So, they use mostly cheap, non-period materials and do most of the work in a modern method (construction patterning) which are more easily done by serger. There are people here who do sew for a living (theatre, living history, commission work) but very few people can afford to have it as authentic as we'd like to have it. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 18:55:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FNt1VZ004459 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:55:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FLv14S007690; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FLuwCC004032; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:56:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14010.mail.yahoo.com (web14010.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0FLuQCC003292 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:56:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040115215624.52897.qmail@web14010.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14010.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:56:24 GMT Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:56:24 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000401c3b92e$a1d06850$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] need help for 1861 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I need some help on making clothing for a 1861 reenactment group. Civilian clothing only. Is there an ACTIVE mailing list for this time period? links, etc anything would be greatly appreciated. ===== Seńora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 15 20:21:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0G1LFVZ004650 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:21:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G1Kb4S027902; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:20:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G1KSCC031702; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:20:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.primushost.com (smtp1.primushost.com [209.58.220.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G1KPCD031655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:20:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp1.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 1AhIep-00014I-DN; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:20:19 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 1AhIgB-0005wi-00; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:21:43 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:21:43 -0500 (EST) From: Katy Bishop To: Diana Habra Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas In-Reply-To: <1051.24.4.69.40.1074198720.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Historical Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greenberg & Hammer used to have the Hymo-red edge, I loved the stuff but it is no longer available, hasn't been for a few years now; they now just have the somewhat more lightweight one now, it works fairly well. I usually use it for stiffening 1890's ballgown skirts. Now if only they still carried a coutil that was a decent weight. Katy On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Diana Habra wrote: > >> >> Thanks Ruth for the suggestion. I hadn't looked at this before, but the >> interfacings they have listed are polyester blends, no wool or hair types. >> Our summers are very hot, so I am trying for more natural interlinings, >> such as linen, wool and goat hair. >> >> ah, wait! They also have Hymo listed, separately. I will have to see what >> else they have, and may get a catalog as well. I will bookmark them for >> further explorations. And don't lurk so long. Your knowledge is welcome >> here. >> :-) >> >> Kimiko > >Kimiko, > >I know that the stuff Hancock's used to carry was called Acro and I >thought Greenberg & Hammer had it. Yup, in their catalog from 2000 they >carry it. it is $6.60 per yard up to 10 yards and goes down from there >based on volume. If you looked on line, they may not have it uploaded >yet. They also describe the Hymo you mentioned but it seems heavier than >the Acro based on the description. > >Short of finding it online, I found hair canvas (of all places) in the >upholstery section of a local independant fabric store. I know you live >somewhere in the San Juaquin valley but if you can make it in to Oakland, >the place is called Poppy fabrics. The best part is it is VERY wide and >only like 8- or 12-something a yard which is a much better deal than >6-something for 26 inches. > >Let me know if you need more info..... > >-- >Diana Habra >www.renaissancefabrics.net >"Everything for the Costumer" >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 00:18:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0G5IAVZ005297 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 00:18:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G5HR4S016008; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:17:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G5HMCC045110; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:17:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G5HLCC045096 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:17:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-65-29-24-203.mn.rr.com [65.29.24.203]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0G5HKbR026279 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:17:20 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20040115230955.032d0380@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:12:43 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" In-Reply-To: <4006A7CA.70904@uvm.edu> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040115002418.021359f8@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:46 AM 1/15/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Bice d'Este wrote: >>It looks like an undersleeve or chemise like for a tied on sleeve BUT I >>think it may be a simple white band that some women wore to show religous >>affiliation. > >The religious affiliation is an idea I haven't heard yet. Cool. Any details? >Over time I've jotted down some possibilities along with my own >interpretations of them them. Check out: >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/whiteband.html > >- Hope Interesting. Running (probably away with ) the religious idea...does anyone know of any records that might indicate confraternity membership of these ladies with the white straps? Confraternities were very popular in Europe (in England some of the segued in the the guilds) and white was a common colour for confraternity clothes and regalia. I've seen mention of confraternity emblems being worn in Spain and never gave it much thought for England... Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 02:46:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0G7kMVZ031398 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:46:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G7je4S024100; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 00:45:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G7jaCC009930; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 00:45:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G7jYCC009911 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 00:45:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp454.pop1.net [209.102.126.54]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA27960 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:47:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp454.pop1.net [209.102.126.54] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <4007969C.1050306@pcez.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:45:32 -0800 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] LOTR-Arwen's head-dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings one and all, I was curious if anyone knows who the jeweler/metal smith was who designed and created the beautiful silver headdress that Arwen was wearing at the end of the "Return of the King". As a budding jeweler I found it to be to wonderful for words, but would love a closer look at it. If anyone knows of any websites that may show it well, I would love to explore them. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 03:41:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0G8fUVZ031493 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:41:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G8ek4S027945; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:40:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G8ehCC032948; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:40:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41501.mail.yahoo.com (web41501.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0G8eeCC032909 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:40:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040116084034.41843.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:40:34 GMT Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:40:34 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Marquesate?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pictorial sources for Victorian bathin costumes? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am asking on Teddy's behalf: does anyone know of images on the internet of Victorian bathing costumes? Thanks Nicole ===== Email: nicole@kipar.org Website: http://www.kipar.org ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 03:47:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0G8lKVZ031502 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:47:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G8kf4S028383; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:46:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G8kdCC035243; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:46:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.159]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G8kaCC035193 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:46:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion (213-78-100-70.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.100.70]) by msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BPR35113; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:46:25 GMT Message-ID: <004601c3dc0e$32cdb220$46644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040116084034.41843.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictorial sources for Victorian bathin costumes? Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:53:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not online but I have a load of books and images :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 04:23:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0G9NlVZ032023 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 04:23:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G9NB4S000969; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:23:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G9N9CC051400; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:23:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [64.28.25.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0G9N6CD051386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:23:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ingridgs@techarea.net) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [127.0.0.1]) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0G9HaiZ028509 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:17:36 +0100 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id i0G9HaIp028505 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:17:36 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: decna.com: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:17:36 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] historiska.se web board In-Reply-To: <005101c3db7f$38038470$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >> Actually, the Sture garments are Swedish. :) They've been discussed >> on the historiska.se web board > This would be very nice for me i think. Would you please send some > informations about this web board? Hi, Bjarne! I'll reply to the list in case anyone else who reads Swedish/Norwegian/Danish is interested. This is the same web board that was menioned briefly in the discussion we had on Norse clothing recently; the URL is http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/forum/. Most of the topics tend to be on Viking age and Medieval period, but it certainly doesn't have to stay that way. You'll be very welcome, Bjarne. :) Most of the posters write in Swedish but but some of us write Norwegian and there has been a little bit of Danish as well. On the topic of the Sture garments, if you were particularly interested in those, the discussions have been fairly brief but what there is can be found by using the search function and searching on "Sture" og "sturarna". :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 05:10:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GAAtVZ032147 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:10:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAAP4S003333; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:10:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAAMCC068613; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:10:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAAKCD068592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:10:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0GA7SPp022192 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:07:28 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:07:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4007B8D5.80002@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:11:33 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] LOTR-Arwen's head-dress References: <4007969C.1050306@pcez.com> In-Reply-To: <4007969C.1050306@pcez.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Roscelin wrote: > If anyone knows of any websites that > may show it well, I would love to explore them. If anyone has good images, these folks do: http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/ An absolutely amazing site. There's also a fantasy costume discussion list that you could join to talk with others about it. Not sure where it's hosted, though. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Ask yourself - "How would Sauron have described the situation?" And then -- "What might 'really' have happened?" -- David Brin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 05:21:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GAL9VZ032200 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:21:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAKR4S004225; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:20:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAKOCC072212; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:20:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAKNCC072195 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:20:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRK00B7LVDWYZ@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:20:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:08:32 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040116020234.0218e4a8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1051.24.4.69.40.1074198720.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:21 PM 1/15/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Now if only >they still carried a coutil that was a decent weight. > >Katy Hi Katy, Thanks for the info on the red edges Hymo. On the coutil, have you checked out Farthingales, in Canada? Linda has a lot of different coutils in her on-line catalog, and she is very knowledgeable about all things related to corsets. Try this for her coutil fabrics http://www.farthingales.on.ca/coutil.php What I like is that the prices are Canadian, so they translate to lower prices for those in the US, and she ships US as well. YMMV. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 05:21:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GALjVZ032203 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:21:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAL74S004343; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:21:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAL7CC072481; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:21:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAKNCC072204 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:20:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRK00B7LVDWYZ@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:20:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:15:55 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas In-reply-to: <003401c3db03$8d1f2800$6501a8c0@SG01> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040116021453.02214b50@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113222945.00b0ca50@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:04 PM 1/14/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I would call Greenburg and Hammer...their online catalogue is not complete. >They offer a set of samples of all their interfacings too. > >Sg Ah, thank you! I think I have their catalog around here someplace (I so need to clean this sewing room and organize things, and put papers away, and...), but I didn't know they would send interfacing swatches. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 05:21:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GALuVZ032206 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:21:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GALH4S004362; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:21:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GALHCC072532; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:21:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAKaCC072289 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:20:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRK00CBMVEA0G@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:20:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:01:40 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas In-reply-to: <1051.24.4.69.40.1074198720.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040116020008.0217de60@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114140331.0211a098@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20040114140331.0211a098@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:32 PM 1/15/2004 -0800, you wrote: > I know that the stuff Hancock's used to carry was called Acro ... >Short of finding it online, I found hair canvas (of all places) in the >upholstery section of a local independant fabric store. I know you live >somewhere in the San Juaquin valley but if you can make it in to Oakland, >the place is called Poppy fabrics. The best part is it is VERY wide and >only like 8- or 12-something a yard which is a much better deal than >6-something for 26 inches. Thanks so much for this info Diana, I appreciate it very much. I don't make it to the Bay too often, but my half brother lives in Oakland, so I may make a dual duty trip sometime soon. Can you tell me where Poppy fabrics is? I am only familiar with Stone Mountain and Daughter in Berkeley. Thanks again! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 05:42:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GAgGVZ032289 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:42:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAfj4S005360; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:41:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAfjCC079897; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:41:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAfgCD079869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:41:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0GAcnPp022782 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:38:50 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:38:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4007C02E.1060209@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:42:54 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Nebuly headdress: image search X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Folks, Over on SCA-Milliners, a poster is looking at a redrawing of something that I think is a crude version of a nebuly headdress. I know I've seen a sculpture of this thing, but I can't seem to find an image of it. I'm hoping one of you might know it: It is a single figure. My brain says black stone, but that seems unlikely. The nebuly headdress is like a large honeycombed sausage, framing her face in three sides of a square, with a thin veil down the back. She might have her hands in slits in her dress (fichets). Note that this is not the simple ruffled veil of the Arnolfini Wedding style. Any other good images of the very stuffed-looking nebuly would be great, too. I searched the archives, but there were no hits for nebuly. Thanks! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 05:42:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GAgRVZ032292 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:42:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAeb4S005272; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:40:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAeZCC079431; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:40:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAeYCC079410 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:40:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lee@gw.retro.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id i0GAhfM28962 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:43:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:43:42 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200401161043.i0GAhfM28962@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] LOTR-Arwen's head-dress Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They've got a link out to directions on how to do the lothlorien brooches in polymer clay. http://www.geocities.com/evilgal501/index.htm Having worked with polymer clay extensively, I'd give two caveats: Sculpey is the softest and most brittle of all the polymer clays. Consider using Premo or Fimo Soft instead. Premo is the strongest of the clays but is still relatively easy to work. If you find it too sticky, leach some of the plasticizer out of the clay by pressing it between two sheets of smooth paper for a couple hours. If you're going to stick a pin back on this, consider using a hard-setting epoxy like JB Weld. Yes, it's gray and ugly, but it holds a lot better and has more structural strength than other types of epoxy. It's also better for filling gaps, which you'll have if you form the brooch as in the directions. Take a look at the Glass Attic if you plan to jump into doing reproduction jewelry with polymer clay: http://www.glassattic.com/ Among other things, the Glass Attic has extensive entries on what types of paints and finishes are compatible with the various polymer clays and how to produce various patinas and faux finishes. For those of us on limited budgets, this is sometimes the best way to come up with a "perfect" jewelry piece for a fantasy or historic costume. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 05:44:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GAiTVZ032297 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:44:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAhw4S005562; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:43:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAhvCC080678; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:43:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GAhtCC080667 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:43:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lee@gw.retro.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id i0GAl3X28981 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:47:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:47:03 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200401161047.i0GAl3X28981@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Thanks so much for this info Diana, I appreciate it very much. I don't make >it to the Bay too often, but my half brother lives in Oakland, so I may >make a dual duty trip sometime soon. Can you tell me where Poppy fabrics >is? I am only familiar with Stone Mountain and Daughter in Berkeley. 5151 Broadway Oakland That's on Broadway, near 51st Avenue. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 07:58:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GCvxVZ001428 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:57:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GCpi4S011929; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:51:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GCpdCC027097; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:51:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GCpbCC027087 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:51:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from casamai@sbcglobal.net) Received: from casamai (ppp-65-69-45-92.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net [65.69.45.92]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0GCpZhX015126 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 04:51:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001701c3dc2f$6e01ef20$3ce3fea9@sbcglobal.net> From: "Bruce & Nora Mai" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century mailing list Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:49:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you intend to cover the entire 17th century or mostly the later half, Restoration, et al? I'm more interested in early/mid century. Nora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 12:23 PM Subject: [h-cost] 17th century mailing list > Greetings, > > I'm pleased to be able to announce the formation of a 17th century > living history mailing list. My previous researches turned up no > general-purpose list for this subject, so I got together with Kass > McGann and we created one. > > The blurb for the list is as follows: > > This list is focussed on the discussion of European and > European-colonial 17th century life and culture as it pertains to > living history, re-enactment, and other such historical activities. > > There are many organizations which portray the 17th century, > including English Civil War groups, American colonial, and a range > of groups set in various parts of Europe. Many of them have a > military focus, and hence many of the mailing lists which discuss > the 17th century discuss primarily military matters - pike drill, > muskets, uniforms, and so on. > > This mailing list is different in that it provides a forum for > discussion of non-military matters such as civilian life, clothing, > food and drink, music and dance, art and culture, and other matters > pertaining to the accurate portrayal of people living in the 17th > century. > > So in short, a general purpose 17th century discussion list. Clothing, > culture, politics, food and drink, you name it. > > Anyone who's interested may subscribe at the following address: > http://reconstructinghistory.com/mailman/listinfo/17thcentury_reconstructinghistory.com > > K. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 08:42:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GDgHVZ001693 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:42:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GDff4S014533; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:41:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GDfdCC046787; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:41:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GDfcCC046778 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:41:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.122] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7C2B65F0126; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:31:46 -0500 Message-ID: <002201c3dc37$204f8460$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113222945.00b0ca50@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20040116021453.02214b50@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:46:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko, how much of the 'Hymo' do you need for finishing your project. I came across a piece in the stash while cleaning, yesterday... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 5:15 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas > At 06:04 PM 1/14/2004 -0700, you wrote: > >I would call Greenburg and Hammer...their online catalogue is not complete. > >They offer a set of samples of all their interfacings too. > > > >Sg > > > > Ah, thank you! I think I have their catalog around here someplace (I so > need to clean this sewing room and organize things, and put papers away, > and...), but I didn't know they would send interfacing swatches. > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 08:43:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GDhCVZ001700 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:43:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GDgb4S014578; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GDgbCC047210; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:42:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.primushost.com (smtp3.primushost.com [209.58.220.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GDgYCD047148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:42:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp3.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1AhUF2-0000C8-7U; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:42:28 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1AhU3A-0002ag-00; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:30:12 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:30:12 -0500 (EST) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040116020234.0218e4a8@64.87.54.245> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been meaning to try them out, Thanks, I am all out of coutil and hoarding my last yard of the old heavy coutil. Katy On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Kimiko Small wrote: > >On the coutil, have you checked out Farthingales, in Canada? Linda has a >lot of different coutils in her on-line catalog, and she is very >knowledgeable about all things related to corsets. Try this for her coutil >fabrics http://www.farthingales.on.ca/coutil.php >What I like is that the prices are Canadian, so they translate to lower >prices for those in the US, and she ships US as well. YMMV. > >Kimiko Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 09:01:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0FFYmVa001797 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:01:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GE134S015885; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:01:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GE10CC054514; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:01:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GE0xCC054502 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:01:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: from oldwaylane.net (dialup-67.72.166.200.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net [67.72.166.200]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22208 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:00:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4007ECF4.90107@oldwaylane.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:53:56 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] LOTR-Arwen's head-dress References: <4007969C.1050306@pcez.com> <4007B8D5.80002@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <4007B8D5.80002@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Roscelin wrote: > >> If anyone knows of any websites that may show it well, I would love to >> explore them. > > > If anyone has good images, these folks do: > > http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/ In the last day or so someone has put up a sketch on making it, and we've got someone working on a tutorial on it for the website. The sketch would be in the yahoo photoalbum, have to find the original message that say's who's though. Yeah, there's a bit of current interest in it. Although some are saying it's fine chain, someone else is thinking strung sead beads. > > An absolutely amazing site. There's also a fantasy costume discussion > list that you could join to talk with others about it. Not sure where > it's hosted, though. The discussion group is at however, WARNING: unless you can deal with 60-90 emails in a day from the group (it's at least as high traffic or more than h-costume!) set your subscription to "nomail" and read it on the web, or to "digest". There are amazing people with talents in just about everything. And I think the archives are also public so you can read without joining (just can't post). -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 09:13:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GEDCVZ001862 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:13:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GECb4S016660; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:12:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GECaCC059796; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:12:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.uttyl.edu (uttyler.edu [198.213.56.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GECWCC059739 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:12:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu) In-Reply-To: <20040115215624.52897.qmail@web14010.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] need help for 1861 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5 September 26, 2003 Message-ID: From: Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:14:34 -0600 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on UT Tyler Admin/UT Tyler(Release 6.5|September 26, 2003) at 01/16/2004 08:14:41 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i0GECWCC059739 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One of the most active at the moment is the CW-Civilian Yahoo group. The web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CWCivilian/ A list that is not so active at the moment, but has some knowledgeable folks on it (they overlap with the CW-Civilian group) is cw-reenactors. Their subscription information is at http://www.cw-reenactors.com/ There is also a forum at http://www.cwreenactors.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=civilian The Authentic-Campaigners forum ( http://www.authentic-campaigners.com) is excellent, but it is currently having software problems. At the moment, the entire valuable archive is inaccessible. Vicki Betts vbetts@gower.net Catalina Saravia Quicedo Historical Costume Sent by: h-costume-bounces cc @indra.com Subject [h-cost] need help for 1861 01/15/2004 03:56 PM Please respond to Historical Costume I need some help on making clothing for a 1861 reenactment group. Civilian clothing only. Is there an ACTIVE mailing list for this time period? links, etc anything would be greatly appreciated. ===== Seńora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 09:43:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GEhTVZ002091 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:43:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GEgp4S018915; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:42:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GEgnCC074096; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:42:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GEglCC074075 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:42:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marthakelly@nyc.rr.com) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) by nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.10/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id i0GEgju0013840 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:42:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:42:49 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <200401161020.i0GAKaCE072285@net.indra.com> Cc: Subject: [h-cost] To Catalina X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You should be able to find all sorts of help on your Civil War sewing at the following site: CWCivilian@yahoogroups.com Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 10:08:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GF8dVZ003054 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:08:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GF7x4S020948; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:07:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GF7uCC087566; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:07:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GF7sCC087506 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:07:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:07:47 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:07:37 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Pattern from Museums X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Their info as listed in the book is: >McCall's Pattern Company >615 McCall's Road >Manhattan, KS 66502 >785-776-4041 That's correct, Kimiko. The person to ask for is Dave Hoover, in the Commercial Printing Division. Margo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks ladies! The museum is in Kansas too so that may help. I don't know where they got the grant, but the museum I am talking about has a small one specifically to get good costumes made. They do living history tours and part of the problem with the current costumes is that they were made on a budget, by a volunteer (good seamstress, not so good on research) and they needed to be adjustable to fit several different people. Probably a similar situation with most small museums. The staff hopes to get good costumes made and I hope that will encourge some of the more active volunteers to invest in their own costumes too. Fortunately I have managed to hook them up with a couple of folks locally that do good work. Part of their payment will be a chance to 'run amok' through the costume collection. Hmmmm, that might be an idea for someone else; if you know of a museum in your area that you feel needs better costumes offer a trade, sewing for a chance at upclose research. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 10:15:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GFFxVZ003081 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:15:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFFJ4S021692; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:15:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFFHCC092084; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:15:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFFFCC092040 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:15:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.185] (pm5-185.eos.net [205.133.149.185]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GFF6Au003741 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:15:11 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:15:47 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401150812.i0F8CvCD044441@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: America's Top Model X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny: I'm not sure what you're asking for. I don't watch any "reality" TV and so I wouldn't watch that one. I looked at the site you posted, and that was enough for me. I really don't understand the appeal of watching a bunch of beautiful women call each other names and be nasty to each other. No wait, I guess for many people that IS the appeal. Are you asking about the clothes? The photos? The show itself? The site crashed my computer so I never did see the "Garden of Eden" photos, but I saw the photos of the "girls" doing some kind of military fashion shoot. Nothing special, IMHO. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 10:19:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GFJgVZ003104 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:19:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFIx4S022420; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:18:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFIxCC095194; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:18:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFFGCC092076 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:15:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.185] (pm5-185.eos.net [205.133.149.185]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GFF6Av003741 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:15:13 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:15:47 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401150812.i0F8CvCD044441@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] pirates of the you-know-what X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As the last person on earth (seemingly) to see this movie, I'd like to weigh in on the corset controversy! I didn't think the movie implied at all that Elizabeth had never worn a corset, considering that she seemed to be wearing one much of the time. I thought the one she got with her new gown was supposed to be extra tight, and that she fainted because she was standing in the sun in it for too long. This is my children's opinion too. I asked them (9 and 7) why they thought she fainted, and they said because she was too hot. (ASIDE: I took my daughter to see the dress exhibit at the Cincinnati Art Museum on the last day. There was a corset display, of course, and I explained to her how people think corsets were much less comfortable than they really were, and how only one fashion was bad, etc. WHILE I WAS SAYING THIS two women looked at me like I was nuts and said, very loudly, how awful corsets were. Oh well! Now my daughter wants a coat like one she saw there, and I think I know what I'm doing for her Easter dress next year.) But I do have a question. After Captain J.S. rips her corset off, she seems to have some kind of stays underneath it. (No wonder she was hot.) What was that supposed to be? Gail Finke who may be facing a pirate Halloween next year, if the kids stick to their current ideas _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 10:22:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GFMrVZ003123 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:22:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFLD4S022703; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:21:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFLCCC096560; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:21:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFL9CC096527 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:21:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.185] (pm5-185.eos.net [205.133.149.185]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GFL6Ar005609 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:21:07 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:21:47 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401161020.i0GAKaCD072285@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: arwen's head-dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Roscelin: I don't know who made that, but I've seen a web site that offers very similar ones. Of course, I don't know the URL, but if you search under "Elf Crowns," or maybe "Elf Coronets," you will probably find it. I was searching under "Crowns" at the time, and I remember this site had them listed as Elf Crowns or Coronets. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 10:23:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GFNeVZ003140 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:23:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFN14S022933; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFMxCC097658; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:23:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFMvCC097622 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:22:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@infotrope.net) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 548DF36A44 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:22:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AhVoG-00074B-00 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:22:56 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century mailing list In-Reply-To: <001701c3dc2f$6e01ef20$3ce3fea9@sbcglobal.net> References: <001701c3dc2f$6e01ef20$3ce3fea9@sbcglobal.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:22:56 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nora wrote: > Do you intend to cover the entire 17th century or mostly the later half, > Restoration, et al? I'm more interested in early/mid century. Well, I do 1638, and I know that at least two other members who have posted so far do Cavalier period (1620-1640). So, in short, yes, the entire century. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 10:33:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GFX7VZ003209 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:33:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFWQ4S023844; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:32:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFWPCC003551; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:32:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (msg.ureach.com [63.236.74.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFWNCC003543 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:32:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-217-45-70.asm.bellsouth.net [68.217.45.70]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i0GFWMqX004850 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:32:22 -0500 Message-ID: <011701c3dc45$eecca8f0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: America's Top Model Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:32:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The military fashion shoot wasn't supposed to be anything special. It was the first episode and the girls had just shown up. Some of them have never modeled before. Anyway, rather than getting a little intro to settle them in as on the first season, they were stuck on a runway in front of all of these military guys as a test. They had no prep and did pretty badly. The garden of eden photo shoot, though, was gorgeous..... it wasn't clothes it was paint and jewels for an ad campaign. It was very cool. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 10:15 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: America's Top Model > > Penny: > > I'm not sure what you're asking for. I don't watch any "reality" TV and so I > wouldn't watch that one. I looked at the site you posted, and that was > enough for me. I really don't understand the appeal of watching a bunch of > beautiful women call each other names and be nasty to each other. No wait, I > guess for many people that IS the appeal. Are you asking about the clothes? > The photos? The show itself? The site crashed my computer so I never did see > the "Garden of Eden" photos, but I saw the photos of the "girls" doing some > kind of military fashion shoot. Nothing special, IMHO. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 11:07:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GG70VZ003357 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:07:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GG5k4S027578; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:05:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GG5MCC024882; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:05:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.uvm.edu (badger.uvm.edu [132.198.101.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GG5LCC024823 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:05:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093022.uvm.edu [132.198.93.22]) by smtp.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GG4pUT014264 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:04:51 -0500 Message-ID: <40080BA0.9010808@uvm.edu> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:04:48 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" References: <20040115.075609.22827.419925@webmail11.nyc.untd.com> In-Reply-To: <20040115.075609.22827.419925@webmail11.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > I'm not sure if I'm the first/only one to come up with the idea, but I did > notice and post to the list awhile back that the ladies who had that > particular element to their costume were the ones known to have a > Catholic rather than Protestant religious affiliation (where any > affiliation is known). Well, I started to pull together a few images/ideas on this. Have to abandon it for the moment as the semester is starting, but here it is: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/whiteband-religious.html - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 11:58:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GGwiVZ003679 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:58:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GGuZ4S003334; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:56:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GGuXCC061008; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:56:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GGuSCC060866 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:56:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:56:22 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:56:09 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: LOTR - Arwen's headdress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Noble Collection seems to have all the headdresses/cornets, including Eowyn's set I only saw in the extended version of Two Towers: http://www.noblecollection.com/catalog/catalog.cfm?catid=17 Just as an FYI: I received the leaf brooch as a present and it is very nice. Another friend ordered one of the rings however and was not happy with it. Their money was refunded. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 12:24:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GHOuVZ003721 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:24:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GHO94S007726; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:24:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GHO7CC081710; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:24:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav39.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GHO4CC081609 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:24:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:23:59 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav39.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:23:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4007969C.1050306@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] LOTR-Arwen's head-dress Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:24:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2004 17:23:59.0386 (UTC) FILETIME=[872007A0:01C3DC55] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I was curious if anyone knows who the jeweler/metal smith was who > designed and created the beautiful silver headdress that Arwen was > wearing at the end of the "Return of the King". I can't help you, but I've found someone who makes similar jewelry here http://ambreagorn.free.fr/, you might be interested. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 12:34:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GHY1VZ003748 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:34:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GHXL4S008719; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:33:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GHXKCC088445; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:33:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GHXACC088308 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:33:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (ip7.207-173-174.dial-eli.eli.iinet.com [207.173.174.7]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 119F26DAD9 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:33:04 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:32:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: America's Top Model Message-ID: <4007AFC6.29419.68161D4@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <200401150812.i0F8CvCD044441@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Are you asking about the clothes? The photos? The show itself? The > site crashed my computer so I never did see the "Garden of Eden" > photos, but I saw the photos of the "girls" doing some kind of > military fashion shoot. Nothing special, IMHO. Although I don't watch that sort of show, I did get to see snatches of the "Garden of Eden" shoot. They had some pretty fabulous body painting on the "girls". I think they might also have ended up in one of the magazines like US and People. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 14:08:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GJ8KVZ004124 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:08:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GJ6B4S019549; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:06:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GJ61CC053841; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:06:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GJ5xCC053756 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:06:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5CF18AB0076; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:04:47 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5CC96101D8; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:04:44 -0600 Message-ID: <00e901c3dc63$d7f470e0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: America's Top Model Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:06:27 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail, I don't get into the bashing aspect of reality TV either. I wish you could have seen the Garden of Eden photos. They were really beautiful. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 14:14:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GJEvVZ004141 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:14:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GJEI4S020403; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GJEHCC059803; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:14:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GJEDCC059705 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:14:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7BB137D0084; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:12:59 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7B85510232; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:12:56 -0600 Message-ID: <00f201c3dc64$fb42b880$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401150812.i0F8CvCD044441@net.indra.com> <4007AFC6.29419.68161D4@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: America's Top Model Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:14:35 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat, One of the judges from the show is the editor of Jane magazine. They are supposed to have an exclusive on the show. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 15:35:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GKZvVZ004358 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:35:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GKZ94S029270; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GKZ6CC013673; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:35:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from crows.siteprotect.com (crows.siteprotect.com [66.113.136.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GKZ4CC013642 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:35:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from crows.siteprotect.com (IDENT:sitemail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crows.siteprotect.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0GKZ3t09687 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:35:03 -0600 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:35:03 -0600 Message-Id: <200401162035.i0GKZ3t09687@crows.siteprotect.com> From: cschmitt@genteelarts.com To: "Historical Costume" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Conference on Mid-19th Century Clothing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We would like to remind everyone and extend a warm invitation to the ladies and gentlemen on the list to attend the tenth annual Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference. The conference will be held March 5-7, 2004 in Harrisburg, PA. In celebration of its tenth anniversary, the conference is expanding this year to present a full program of presentations on the clothing and culture of the mid-nineteenth century with programs of interest for both ladies and gentlemen. Presentations include: Joint Sessions: "Satan’s Workshop Aprons: Activities and Attire for Idle Hours" – Juanita Leisch Jensen "Slop Shops and Swells: The Men’s Clothing Industry in Early America" - Jon Isaacson "Are We There Yet? A Guide to 1860s Transportation, Whether by Foot, Horse, Buggy or Train" - Maggie Burke. Program A: "Translating French Fashions: From Les Modes Illustrees to Godey’s and Peterson’s" - Karin Bohleke "For Better, For Worse: The Impact of the Civil War on the Traditional Victorian Wedding" - Susan Anthony "Sheer Delight: Some Observations on the Diaphanous Dresses of the Early Victorian Period" - K. Krewer "Sisters in Caring: The Story of Two Nurses During the Civil War" – Deborah McBeth "Variations on a Theme: Sleeve Styles of the Mid-19th Century and How to Reproduce Them" - Carolann Schmitt Program B: "News of Great Importance: What Every Citizen Should Know About Life Before ‘The War’" - Susan Lyons Hughes "Make Yourself at Home: Describing the Material Culture of the Mid-19th Century" - Nicky Hughes "From Rags to Upward Mobility: Working Class Clothing in Early America" - Jon Isaacson "Nineteenth Century Hat Making and Felting" - Tim Bender "Immigration 1855-1865: From Huddled Masses to a Burgeoning Nation" - Maggie and Michael Burke. Friday Pre-Conference Workshops and Focus Sessions: "What is this Garment Saying to Me: Featuring the Aurora Collection of Men’s Clothing" will offer two different sessions: one on men’s vests (10 AM and 1 PM) and one on men’s coats (3 PM). Bill Christen and Philip Whiteman will present the sessions which include a history of the garment, a photographic survey from 1775-1875, and a discussion of terms and textiles. Participants will then break into groups and be given time to physically examine one or two original garments from 1825-1900. They will determine “what each garment is saying” about its age, design, provenance and structural characteristics. After discussing their findings with the group, participants will have the opportunity to review and examine the other garments in the Aurora Collection. Photographs are permitted. The Aurora Collection will remain on display throughout the conference so that all of the conference participants have an opportunity to view it. However, hands-on examination of the articles! in the collection is limited to workshop participants. Jon Isaacson will present two workshops. The first, "The Last ‘Vest’ige of Color: Men’s Vests in Mid-19th Century America" (10 AM and 3 PM), is a detailed discussion on the garments that were the epitome of color and show. The workshop will examine the various types of vests, textiles, and a ‘dissection’ on how they were constructed. An extensive display of original vests will accompany the discussion illustrating the shaping, styles, materials, and construction details. Stylistic differences will be discussed so that more accurate dating of original garments and photographs can be achieved. Jon’s second workshop, "Tied Up in Knots: Types of Cravats and How to Tie Them" (1 PM), will focus on the only other item of men’s clothing apart from vests that retained any sense of individuality. Different styles, materials and methods of tying will be discussed as students learn how to tie their own cravat. Several workshops are of particular interest to women. Virginia Mescher will present a focus session on period laundresses and laundry techniques entitled "Washday: Hercules Had it Easy!" The presentation includes a description of how laundry was done, the equipment needed for the job, military laundresses, and how to create a laundry display or impression. There will also be a display of reproduction and original laundry equipment. Hands-on workshops include: "Your Crowning Glory: Hairstyling Techniques 1860-1865" presented by Stacy Hampton; "Ribbon-Framed Hairnets" by Maggie Burke, "Gauging" by Tee McGuire, and a lecture-demonstration on "Fitting a Bodice" with Carolann Schmitt (3 PM only). Men and women will be interested in the Beginner (1 PM) and Intermediate "Civil War-Era Dance Workshops" (10AM and 3 PM) with Briant and Karin Bohleke. No dance experience is necessary; attending with a partner is helpful but not required. As of this date there is still space available in all of the pre-conference workshops and focus sessions. Priority registration is given to workshop participants. Space permitting, registration will be accepted from the general public after 2/02/04. Displays: Each year the Conference presents outstanding displays of original period clothing, accessories, undergarments and other items of material culture. The 2003 Conference featured what may well have been the largest single exhibit of men’s civilian clothing ever assembled, in addition to extensive displays of garments for women and children. This year’s displays will continue that tradition with new displays of civilian clothing from private collections from throughout the country, including special displays of men’s clothing, women’s clothing from the South, sheer dresses, and artifacts and attire for leisure and recreational activities - including furnishings for a period barroom! Pre-Conference Activities: On Thursday and Friday, conference participants are invited to an open house at Family Heirloom Weavers. This family-owned firm is renowned for its reproduction textiles. Visitors will be able to tour the production facilities and watch the looms in operation as they produce in-grain carpet, woven coverlets, and a variety of reproduction period fabrics. Family Heirloom Weavers is the supplier of the official conference fabric for this year’s speakers and will debut their new line of dress fabrics in the Marketplace at the conference. Participants visiting the Civil War Museum in Harrisburg will be offered reduced admission fees for their visits during the conference. An informal reception Thursday evening at the Conference hotel will offer the opportunity for participants to meet and talk with the speakers and their fellow attendees. The reception will also include special displays, musical entertainment, and a preview of some of the presentations planned for the 2005 Conference. Complete details on these and other conference activities will be included in the confirmation packet. Marketplace Our juried vendor area is open to both conference participants (complimentary admission) and the general public (modest admission fee). Get a head start of the season by visiting the merchants in the Marketplace. It’s not too late to register! As of this date we still have space available for both programs. Historically, we receive a huge influx of registrations during the next three weeks. If that pattern is repeated this year, we will very likely sell out. You are encouraged to register early rather than later to avoid being disappointed. You may register by mail, e-mail, fax, or phone. A printable registration form is available on the web site listed below. The Conference has become one of the premier opportunities to learn more about the clothing and culture of the Civil War era. Don’t miss out on attending this informative and entertaining event! Complete details are available at www.genteelarts.com Please contact me if you need further information. My apologies to those on several lists for the multiple posts, and my thanks to the list members for your consideration. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 5-7, 2004 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 15:56:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GKuGVZ004465 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:56:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GKqC4S001308; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:52:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GKqACC025265; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:52:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0GKq6CC025221 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:52:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040116205205.57078.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:52:05 GMT Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:52:05 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <40080BA0.9010808@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you've ever worn a Tudor with those nearly off-the-shoulder sleeves, I think you would probably wonder if this is just something to hold them up. Many events I see the famous "Tudor Tug" --- Hope Greenberg wrote: > > > seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > > I'm not sure if I'm the first/only one to come up > with the idea, but I did > > notice and post to the list awhile back that the > ladies who had that > > particular element to their costume were the ones > known to have a > > Catholic rather than Protestant religious > affiliation (where any > > affiliation is known). > > Well, I started to pull together a few images/ideas > on this. Have to > abandon it for the moment as the semester is > starting, but here it is: > > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/whiteband-religious.html > > - Hope > ===== Seńora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 15:57:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GKvKVZ004483 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:57:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GKse4S001730; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:54:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GKsdCC027217; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:54:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav59.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GKsZCC027103 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:54:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:54:30 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav59.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:54:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040116205205.57078.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:54:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2004 20:54:30.0002 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF8F1520:01C3DC72] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah but that religous affiliation theory is such a nice fun one..... ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 16, 2004 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" > If you've ever worn a Tudor with those nearly > off-the-shoulder sleeves, I think you would probably > wonder if this is just something to hold them up. Many > events I see the famous "Tudor Tug" > > > --- Hope Greenberg wrote: > > > > > seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > > > > I'm not sure if I'm the first/only one to come up > > with the idea, but I did > > > notice and post to the list awhile back that the > > ladies who had that > > > particular element to their costume were the ones > > known to have a > > > Catholic rather than Protestant religious > > affiliation (where any > > > affiliation is known). > > > > Well, I started to pull together a few images/ideas > > on this. Have to > > abandon it for the moment as the semester is > > starting, but here it is: > > > > > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/whiteband-religious.html > > > > - Hope > > > > > ===== > Seńora Catalina > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 16:10:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GLAAVZ004548 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:10:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GL9P4S003537; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:09:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GL9NCC038087; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:09:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GL9ICC038029 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:09:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cbucheger@paclp.com) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.00) id A2FBAA03D6; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:09:15 -0600 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1074287353210; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:09:13 -0600 Message-ID: <000f01c3dc73$c189f720$1d64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040116205205.57078.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:00:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But it could be both, "if you're a good and proper lady of (whatever church), you don't show that much shoulder..." cyn ----- From: "Bice d'Este" Yeah but that religous affiliation theory is such a nice fun one..... From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" > If you've ever worn a Tudor with those nearly > off-the-shoulder sleeves, I think you would probably > wonder if this is just something to hold them up. Many > events I see the famous "Tudor Tug" > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 16:13:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GLDbVZ004558 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:13:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GLCm4S003880; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:12:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GLCmCC040519; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:12:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav24.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GLClCC040438 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:12:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:12:40 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav24.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:12:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040116205205.57078.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <000f01c3dc73$c189f720$1d64a8c0@algx> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:12:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2004 21:12:40.0721 (UTC) FILETIME=[79AD9810:01C3DC75] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL yeah true. Of course showing your shoulder may have gotten you into the order in the first place. ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb For the month of January list people get $2 off shipping Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 16, 2004 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" > But it could be both, "if you're a good and proper lady of (whatever > church), you don't show that much shoulder..." > > cyn > ----- > From: "Bice d'Este" > Yeah but that religous affiliation theory is such a nice fun one..... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 16:39:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GLd9VZ004662 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:39:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GLcM4S006910; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:38:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GLcICC059213; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:38:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GLcECC059150 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:38:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-238-110.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.238.110]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GLc9B1022024 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:38:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040116131731.00db5100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:17:58 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lady Mary Guildfords white "strap" In-Reply-To: <20040115.075609.22827.419925@webmail11.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I'm not sure if I'm the first/only one to come up with the idea, but I did >notice and post to the list awhile back that the ladies who had that >particular element to their costume were the ones known to have a Catholic >rather than Protestant religious affiliation (where any affiliation is >known). I have no idea if this is an actual meaning of the white band, or >if it's trend created not by any period use, but by our imperfect >understanding of the costume and limited pictorial references. So, right >now, as far as I know, the white band=religious affiliation is simply an >idea (I don't even think it could be dignified with the term 'theory') >which needs alot of further research and investigation. And remember that these bands were on both sides, not just one. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 16:39:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GLdOVZ004665 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:39:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GLcm4S006990; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:38:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GLcmCC059603; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:38:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GLcFCC059168 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:38:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-238-110.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.238.110]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GLc9B3022024 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:38:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040116131934.05abf9d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:37:57 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Making Authentic Period Clothing In-Reply-To: References: <20040115194433.7182.qmail@web14805.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I think a lot of people who are interested in authenticity make their own >not only because of money, but also because it's one of the only ways the >can be certain of being "authentic enough" for them. It's also quicker than waiting for a seamstress who might live in another town, and has a life and a waiting list anyway. And way less expensive, since you don't have to pay yourself. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 17:25:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GMOxVZ005003 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:24:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GMO04S012273; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GMNsCC094327; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:23:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GMNpCC094294 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:23:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AhcNa-0001md-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:23:50 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Nebuly headdress: image search Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:23:55 -0700 Message-ID: <002c01c3dc7f$6e301cb0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <4007C02E.1060209@thibault.org> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO New word to me, but got a couple of hits on the net for 'nebule' . I wonder if you searched in the archives that way? Cool, new words and ideas! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 18:04:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0GN4EVZ005449 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:04:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GN1O4S018545; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:01:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GN1ECC022894; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:01:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GN18CC022782 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:01:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f01.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.1]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3BDC2262850 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:01:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001901c3dc84$a995b3a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:01:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Quens Dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0GN4EVZ005449 Status: RO At Castle Rosenborg, Copenhagen - Denmark there will be an exhibition opening 24rd of january to 13th of june called "The Quens Dress" Showing portraits and accesories, dresses from Queen Sophie, (Christian IV's mother) renaissance time, trough the time to the present days. Unfortunately there is only danish text on the website for this exhibition: http://www.rosenborg-slot.dk/asp/menu/menuPages/special.asp?countryID=1 Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 19:05:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0H05rVZ005614 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:05:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H03n4S029168; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H03gCC067470; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:03:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H03eCC067433 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:03:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: from oldwaylane.net (dialup-171.75.47.162.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net [171.75.47.162]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22860 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:03:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <40087A2E.3060403@oldwaylane.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:56:30 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] LOTR-Arwen's head-dress References: <4007969C.1050306@pcez.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > I can't help you, but I've found someone who makes similar jewelry here > http://ambreagorn.free.fr/, you might be interested. they do wonderful work and people have been very happy with their circlets. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 19:07:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0H07mVZ005618 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:07:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H0704S029923; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H070CC069498; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:07:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H06wCC069470 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:06:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lee@gw.retro.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id i0H0A7704321 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:10:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:10:07 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200401170010.i0H0A7704321@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] LOTR-Arwen's head-dress Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Judy Mitchell wrote: > > http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/ > > In the last day or so someone has put up a sketch on > making it, and we've got someone working on a tutorial on it > for the website. The sketch would be in the yahoo > photoalbum, have to find the original message that say's > who's though. Yeah, there's a bit of current interest in it. > Although some are saying it's fine chain, someone else is > thinking strung sead beads. >From having just seen the movie, I'd say it's strung seed beads as well. They look like silver-lined crystal rocailles, which would give the appearance of silver. The strings didn't move like chain, they moved like strings of beads. And after looking at various closeup shots, I'd definitely say it's seed beads, not chain. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 16 20:42:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0H1g3VZ005846 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:42:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H1fW4S008306; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:41:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H1fRCC018588; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:41:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H1fNCD018555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:41:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0H1cTPp027220 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:38:29 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:38:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4008930C.4050601@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:42:36 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nebuly headdress: image search References: <002c01c3dc7f$6e301cb0$6501a8c0@SG01> In-Reply-To: <002c01c3dc7f$6e301cb0$6501a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > New word to me, but got a couple of hits on the net for 'nebule' . I wonder > if you searched in the archives that way? Thanks; hadn't thought of an alternate spelling. Still no luck in the archives, but found one website with funeral brasses of same -- but it's a particular statue I really want; shows how truly bizarre the style is. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 01:09:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0H691VZ006740 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:09:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H68M4S025097; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:08:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H67fCC033139; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:07:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.k12.hi.us (honu.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H67dCC033123 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:07:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from makani (makani.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.195]) by smtp.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 215F4506DB for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:04:15 -1000 (HST) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:06:16 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nebuly headdress: image search In-Reply-To: <4007C02E.1060209@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > a sculpture of this thing, but I can't seem to find an image of it. I'm > hoping one of you might know it: > > It is a single figure. My brain says black stone, but that seems > unlikely. The nebuly headdress is like a large honeycombed sausage, > framing her face in three sides of a square, with a thin veil down the > back. She might have her hands in slits in her dress (fichets). Note > that this is not the simple ruffled veil of the Arnolfini Wedding style. If you have access to Visual History of Costume, 14th and 15th centuries, there are three tomb effigies pictured that might fit the bill. I wouldn't exactly describe them as nebuly but a couple of them are honeycombed. They're plates 25, 28, and 29. 25 is the only one that's squared but the fluting on the veiling looks pretty much like the Arnolfini veiling; not as stylized as the other two. 28 and 29 are honeycombed (two different styles) but they're inverted U's rather than being squared. Dates range from 1360-1380. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 02:17:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0H7HuVZ019824 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:17:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H7HI4S028632; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:17:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H7HFCC061332; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:17:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H7HDCC061283 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:17:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A12D11F00A8; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:15:57 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A12A40F013A; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:15:54 -0600 Message-ID: <02c701c3dcc9$d3736c40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <02fe01c3db3c$c7540980$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for Crochet Patterns Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:16:28 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found a 1970 crochet pattern book on ebay with hats, vests, etc... even bikinis. I snatched it up quickly. The hat and vest are perfect for that Love Story look. YIPPEE!!!! Although my little 12 y.o. will not get a crocheted bikini. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 03:14:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0H8EOVZ000332 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:14:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H8Dl4S002569; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:13:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H8DjCC089265; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:13:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H8DhCC089216 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:13:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE6AA9E0080; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:12:26 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE677630130; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:12:23 -0600 Message-ID: <036001c3dcd1$9abf26c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040116084034.41843.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictorial sources for Victorian bathin costumes? Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:12:09 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nicole, Is the bathing suit for women or men. If women, ask Teddy to write me personally and I can show him some. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 03:43:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0H8hJVZ000402 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:43:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H8gh4S004012; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:42:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H8g6CC000940; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:42:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H8g5CC000929 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:42:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRM00KY3LI3K9@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:42:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:12:57 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tailor's hair canvas In-reply-to: <002201c3dc37$204f8460$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040117001055.00b16118@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113222945.00b0ca50@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20040116021453.02214b50@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:46 AM 1/16/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Kimiko, how much of the 'Hymo' do you need for finishing your project. I >came across a piece in the stash while cleaning, yesterday... >Kathleen Hi Kathleen, I normally use full front and sometimes full back pattern pieces. However, I decided to go with the heavy linen for the body, and only use what hair canvas I have in the collar, along with the linen, to make sure it is good and stiff. Thanks for your offer! Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 04:21:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0H9L5VZ000912 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 04:21:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H9Js4S005978; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:19:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H9JoCC014669; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:19:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0H9JlCC014647 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:19:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-162.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.162]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ATB71929; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 09:19:43 GMT Message-ID: <010201c3dcdc$0326dbe0$33764ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040116084034.41843.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> <036001c3dcd1$9abf26c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictorial sources for Victorian bathin costumes? Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 09:26:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's men's costumes he's after, of the trypical Victorian public perception type I believe Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 05:09:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0HA91VZ001015 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 05:09:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HA8N4S008584; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HA8KCC032226; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:08:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HA8JCC032216 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:08:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-162.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.162]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ATB78472; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 10:08:17 GMT Message-ID: <015601c3dce2$c9640200$33764ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 10:15:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone got any pictures of old Brownie Uniforms please ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 14:39:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0HJd3VZ003533 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:39:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HJcO4S013214; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:38:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HJc6CC069016; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:38:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HJc3CD068974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:38:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0HIvIPp031536 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 13:57:18 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 13:57:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40098687.9020507@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:01:27 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sideless surcoat question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Those of you who are very familiar with these: Am I correct in remembering that they never, ever, have a belt *over* the front panel? That the belt is always entirely underneath the sideless, even in the early permutations* of the style? *Early: as the side slit became longer than just "sleeveless" -- waist long or longer. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 14:40:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0HJePVZ003538 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:40:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HJdr4S013285; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:39:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HJdrCC069589; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:39:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HJc3CF068974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:38:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0HIrcPp031528 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 13:53:38 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 13:53:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <400985AA.5060008@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 13:57:46 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nebuly headdress: image search References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO annora wrote: > If you have access to Visual History of Costume, 14th and 15th > centuries, there are three tomb effigies pictured that might fit the bill. Thank you! Alas, that book is still on the "need to find" list. I'll keep looking for what I have in my head, argh. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 16:07:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0HL7RVZ003827 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:07:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HL6j4S017475; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:06:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HL6hCC001864; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:06:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HL6fCC001853 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:06:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A1D880402; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:58:00 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] LOTR-Arwen's head-dress Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:57:59 -0600 Message-ID: <002601c3dd3c$975d3470$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4007969C.1050306@pcez.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jasmine Watson- www.jasminewatson.com Also work a lot for Xena and Hercules production company- how she met Ngila Dickson; the costume designer on both teams. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Roscelin Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 1:46 AM To: H-Costume Subject: [h-cost] LOTR-Arwen's head-dress Greetings one and all, I was curious if anyone knows who the jeweler/metal smith was who designed and created the beautiful silver headdress that Arwen was wearing at the end of the "Return of the King". As a budding jeweler I found it to be to wonderful for words, but would love a closer look at it. If anyone knows of any websites that may show it well, I would love to explore them. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 16:20:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0HLKiVZ003858 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:20:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HLK84S018041; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:20:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HLK7CC006624; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:20:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HLK3CC006591 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:20:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp529.pop1.net [209.102.126.129]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA12556 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 08:25:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp529.pop1.net [209.102.126.129] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <40096182.10801@pcez.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 08:23:30 -0800 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms References: <015601c3dce2$c9640200$33764ed5@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How old? I may have a picture somewhere with me in one in the '60's. Roscelin Melanie Wilson wrote: >Has anyone got any pictures of old Brownie Uniforms please ? > >Mel > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 16:57:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0HLvUVZ004002 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:57:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HLus4S019492; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:56:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HLurCC020135; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:56:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HLuoCC020108 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:56:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10603 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:24:48 -0600 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:24:48 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sideless surcoat question In-Reply-To: <40098687.9020507@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Am I correct in remembering that they never, ever, have a belt *over* > the front panel? That the belt is always entirely underneath the > sideless, even in the early permutations* of the style? I've seen just one exception that I can think of. It's a slide I used in the lecture you saw -- women processing (or dancing?) in sequence, showing different class levels in descending order. The first one is a queen in a sideless surcote that at this point is pretty clearly used only for royal ceremonial wear. Oddly, I never noticed the belt on the outside till someone at that lecture pointed it out to me! I got the image from page 134 of "A Medieval Book of Seasons," which has lousy citation information and inaccurate captions, but very nice pictures. Here's all I have on it: c. 1450, Hours of the Duchess of Bourgogne, Chantilly, Musee Conde. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 17:44:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0HMijVZ004216 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:44:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HMfv4S022105; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 15:41:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HMfkCC036574; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 15:41:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HMfhCC036545 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 15:41:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10872 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:09:42 -0600 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:09:42 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nebuly headdress: image search In-Reply-To: <4007C02E.1060209@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > It is a single figure. My brain says black stone, but that seems > unlikely. The nebuly headdress is like a large honeycombed sausage, > framing her face in three sides of a square, with a thin veil down the > back. Have you ruled out the sculptures shown in Newton (Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince), pages 96-99? One is a corbel, so it's a head only, extremely stylized (looks like the surface of a waffle cone). The others are effigies, more realistically depicted. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 19:55:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0I0tdVZ004606 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:55:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I0t04S028212; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:55:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I0stCC085115; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:54:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I0ssCC085101 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:54:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion (213-78-118-156.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.118.156]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ATD08397; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:47:35 GMT Message-ID: <00a901c3dd5d$a09ac360$c3634ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <015601c3dce2$c9640200$33764ed5@pavilion> <40096182.10801@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:52:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >How old? I may have a picture somewhere with me in one in the '60's. The older the better but 60s would be great I still have my uniform I guess that would be late 60s early 70s Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 20:42:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0I1gHVZ004812 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:42:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I1fc4S000264; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:41:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I1fbCC001335; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:41:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I1fZCC001293 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:41:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE9A3620078; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:17:14 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE965B6026C; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:17:10 -0600 Message-ID: <017001c3dd61$12fc59c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040116084034.41843.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com><036001c3dcd1$9abf26c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <010201c3dcdc$0326dbe0$33764ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictorial sources for Victorian bathin costumes? Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:19:08 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think the only men's images I have in the 19th Century are from the 1890s. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 23:14:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0I4EEVZ005428 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:14:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I4Da4S005611; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:13:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I4DTCC055360; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:13:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I4DRCD055342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:13:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mjh@pearlandplume.com) Received: (qmail 31485 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2004 04:06:47 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com X-Recipient: h-costume@indra.com Received: from unknown (HELO ?65.24.120.65?) (65.24.120.65) by mail.donet.com for h-costume@indra.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2004 04:06:47 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:03:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Quens Dress From: Marsha J Hamilton To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001901c3dc84$a995b3a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, Does it say whether there will be an exhibition catalog published for "The Quens Dress" with pictures of the costumes? That's a great website. I love the portrait of Kirsten Munk. It has the most ornate peplum or small skirt at the base of the bodice. But on the website the eyes look pink. Does the painting really look like that? Marsha -------- on 1/16/04 6:01 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews at drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: > At Castle Rosenborg, Copenhagen - Denmark there will be an exhibition opening > 24rd of january to 13th of june called "The Quens Dress" Showing portraits and > accesories, dresses from Queen Sophie, (Christian IV's mother) renaissance > time, trough the time to the present days. > Unfortunately there is only danish text on the website for this exhibition: > http://www.rosenborg-slot.dk/asp/menu/menuPages/special.asp?countryID=1 > > > Bjarne > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 17 23:53:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0I4rDVZ005515 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:53:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I4qb4S007064; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:52:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I4qaCC067755; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:52:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I4qYCC067741 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:52:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from matchlck@erols.com) Received: from 66-44-2-177.s685.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.2.177] helo=erols.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Ai4Go-0007k1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:10:45 -0500 Message-ID: <400A3169.AE1D62EE@erols.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:10:33 -0800 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] to peascod or not, 1588 men's doublet References: <40019437.9178.2AA23E@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I am making a late 1580s (1588) doublet and venetians for my husband, > > and I want to be as close to the best fashion as possible. Peascod > > bellies are the style. However, my husband already has enough girth in > > his waist area already. I am wondering if I should make the doublet > > with additional padding, to make his large belly even larger. I would recommend that you put in at least a single layer of padding. When I made the peascod I made two version. Each double was made with the same pattern, one without any padding with a inexpensive wool and on padded with a finer wool. The version with out the padding tended to "collapse" and look wrinkle down the front. While the other padded doublet kept a smooth line from around the peascod. The padding kept it looking better. Yes, "prosperous" Your humble and obediant servant, David S Mallinak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 18 00:56:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0I5ucVZ005645 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:56:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I5sm4S009270; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:54:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I5sjCC086918; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:54:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I5siCC086907 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:54:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-238-110.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.238.110]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I5kgAx022184; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:46:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:46:39 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-needlework@ansteorra.org From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 18th century quilted petticoat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am about to start a mid-18th century quilted petticoat. This is for a group of privateers and associated women, so I'm using linen instead of silk for the outside layer, and I'm keeping the quilting pattern simple. The middle layer will be Warm and Natural, a thin cotton batting recommended to me as being good for showing off fancy quilting stitching. The inner layer will be a funky cotton gingham check of approximately quarter inch squares, except where they're bigger, smaller, or not square (I suspect it was woven in India). How many stitches to the inch is the quilting on the originals, or do individual examples vary? Did 18th century petticoat quilters work from the outside or from the lining side, or do individual examples vary? Is it even known which side they worked from? How did they get the quilting patterns onto the fabric? (If I work from the back side, this will be easy using modern methods.) Do I correctly assume that the quilting is done before the petticoat is assembled, as with modern bed quilts and other quilted items? It would sure be easier that way. How long should I make this garment? I'm assuming about ankle length, and about three yards around. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 18 01:43:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0I6h6VZ005769 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:43:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I6gT4S010538; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:42:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I6gRCC001017; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:42:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net (badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I6gPCC000992 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:42:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net (firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0I62DO19159 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:02:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from user-0cdvmho.cable.mindspring.com ([24.223.218.56] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ai60j-0002T7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:02:13 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040117232617.020e6910@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:28:52 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200401171900.i0HJ0PCD054106@net.indra.com> References: <200401171900.i0HJ0PCD054106@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-ELNK-Trace: 4dc586d4c2c509b54091741908ea4e53fcf848c6d10e7b0e53d8564ef0109dcad058e84e2e293962350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Crochet pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Penny, Somewhere in the house I have that rose afghan pattern also - I made one once upon a time for my MIL. If I find it reasonably soon I'll scan it and send it to you. BTW - I did mine in pale yellow for the roses and green background, because MIL likes yellow roses. Sandy "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 18 03:17:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0I8HiVZ005949 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 03:17:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I8H34S013371; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I8GuCC030151; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:16:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I8GtCC030142 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:16:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion (213-78-100-236.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.100.236]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ASX96327; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 08:09:47 GMT Message-ID: <003401c3dd9b$6c19b7c0$ec644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040116084034.41843.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com><036001c3dcd1$9abf26c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net><010201c3dcdc$0326dbe0$33764ed5@pavilion> <017001c3dd61$12fc59c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictorial sources for Victorian bathin costumes? Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 08:16:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I think the only men's images I have in the 19th Century are from the 1890s I think that is more the type Teddy is after the very early ones are just like stripy shorts, for the 1870s many men still swam in the nude( not a recommended recreation on a public beach today !). But Teddy is after a typical publics eye Victorian bathing suit for men. Most of the ones I am sending him are 1890s too, but the more the merrier I'm sure Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 18 08:44:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0IDirVZ019097 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 08:44:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IDiB4S023451; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 06:44:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IDi6CC028220; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 06:44:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0IDi4CC028209 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 06:44:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nanaseven72003@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040118133722.35992.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.3.157.157] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 05:37:22 PST Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 05:37:22 -0800 (PST) From: Kathy Hensley Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century quilted petticoat To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quilting is done before assembly. When an item is quilted it will change size, shrink up a bit. Also it should be done from the right side. There are special pencils for marking your quilting pattern, some wash out and others are air soluble. Air soluble could be a disadvantage if you don't work in a hurry. As for size of stitches, they need to be as small as you can master and most importantly, even even even sizes. If you have a quilt shop in your area they can help a great deal, if not try Joann's, they usually have a quilt department. Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:I am about to start a mid-18th century quilted petticoat. This is for a group of privateers and associated women, so I'm using linen instead of silk for the outside layer, and I'm keeping the quilting pattern simple. The middle layer will be Warm and Natural, a thin cotton batting recommended to me as being good for showing off fancy quilting stitching. The inner layer will be a funky cotton gingham check of approximately quarter inch squares, except where they're bigger, smaller, or not square (I suspect it was woven in India). How many stitches to the inch is the quilting on the originals, or do individual examples vary? Did 18th century petticoat quilters work from the outside or from the lining side, or do individual examples vary? Is it even known which side they worked from? How did they get the quilting patterns onto the fabric? (If I work from the back side, this will be easy using modern methods.) Do I correctly assume that the quilting is done before the petticoat is assembled, as with modern bed quilts and other quilted items? It would sure be easier that way. How long should I make this garment? I'm assuming about ankle length, and about three yards around. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 18 10:47:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0IFlLVZ019814 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:47:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IFjY4S027146; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 08:45:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IFiKCC065966; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 08:44:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IFiGCC065920 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 08:44:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.5f.44103d06 (4214) for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:38:56 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <5f.44103d06.2d3c0290@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:38:56 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century quilted petticoat To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've never quilted, but.... In one of those books with real 18th century examples ["What Fashion Reveals"? "Fashion in Detail"?] there's a quilt by someone "famous" [locally] for her quilts....19 stitches per inch. I assume these beautiful things are quilted and then assembled because the patterns seem to fit the panels making up the petticoat and not cross over them. As far a length goes, I'd make it adjustable at the waistband, at the top....which usually has no batting or quilting and is sometimes an added piece of the front material. If you add the top, you can also shape it to accommodate underpinnings. They seem to run 3 to 31/2 yards around. I'd choose the fullest, but your panels and quilting pattern will be a factor in determining this. My 2 cents....for a $1500 project! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 18 12:10:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0IHAPVZ020327 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 12:10:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IH9k4S000397; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:09:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IH9fCC095768; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:09:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IH9dCC095753 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:09:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.169] (pool180-226.patriot.net [209.249.180.226]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i0IGnrIq016271 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 11:49:54 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 11:48:52 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century quilted petticoat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Carolyn, I don't know if there are any extant linen quilted petticoats out there. I've seen silk and glazed wool. It sounds like wool is more the class you're going for, however there was a trade in secondhand clothing and you could wear a silk petticoat that was stolen if your character couldn't afford it. A suit weight wool with a slight sheen would be good, and black was a popular color for quilted petticoats, and it's an easy color to find in tropical weight suit wool. Wool is usually the batting, but much better to use cotton than a synthetic. Some synthetic battings can pull through a bit to the front while you quilt. Originals do seem to have been quilted before they were made up into a petticoat. The quilting does go across the panels of fabric except for one seam, and often the quilting lines do not match up exactly. The patterns change over the decades, usually a fancy portion at the bottom and a "filler" of something simple like diamonds or scallops at the top. The proportion of top to bottom changed over time, so your choice of a pattern should reflect the time you're portraying (or earlier if the petticoat is to appear to have been in use for a while). Another choice is to make a petticoat from Marsailles cloth, a double woven fabric that is still available today. The quilted look without all those months of hand stitching! Sally Queen's textile book contains a sample of the fabric. -Carol >I am about to start a mid-18th century quilted petticoat. This is >for a group of privateers and associated women, so I'm using linen >instead of silk for the outside layer, and I'm keeping the quilting >pattern simple. The middle layer will be Warm and Natural, a thin >cotton batting recommended to me as being good for showing off fancy >quilting stitching. The inner layer will be a funky cotton gingham >check of approximately quarter inch squares, except where they're >bigger, smaller, or not square (I suspect it was woven in India). > >How many stitches to the inch is the quilting on the originals, or >do individual examples vary? > >Did 18th century petticoat quilters work from the outside or from >the lining side, or do individual examples vary? Is it even known >which side they worked from? > >How did they get the quilting patterns onto the fabric? (If I work >from the back side, this will be easy using modern methods.) > >Do I correctly assume that the quilting is done before the petticoat >is assembled, as with modern bed quilts and other quilted items? It >would sure be easier that way. > >How long should I make this garment? I'm assuming about ankle >length, and about three yards around. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 18 14:23:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0IJNjVZ020911 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:23:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IJL44S005880; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 12:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IJKxCC045338; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 12:20:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IJKuCC045319 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 12:20:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a253.in-tch.com [66.62.107.53]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0IHqPN20543 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:52:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <400ACDB5.8070202@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 11:17:25 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century quilted petticoat References: <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooooh! Where have you been getting the glazed wool?? I'd love to know your source! (or did I *sniff* misread, and you've only *seen* glazed wool in extant garments?) I've been wanting to do just a few 18th c. garments for the pure pleasure of doing something post-16th century, and I've got this lovely silk for the outer layer of the petticoat if I could just find the glazed wool for the inner layer..... --sue, who loves to quilt... Carol Kocian wrote: > Hi Carolyn, > > I don't know if there are any extant linen quilted petticoats out > there. I've seen silk and glazed wool. It sounds like wool is more the > class you're going for, however there was a trade in secondhand clothing > and you could wear a silk petticoat that was stolen if your character > couldn't afford it. A suit weight wool with a slight sheen would be > good, and black was a popular color for quilted petticoats, and it's an > easy color to find in tropical weight suit wool. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 18 15:48:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0IKmHVZ021195 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:48:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IKlb4S009812; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:47:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IKlWCC079535; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:47:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0IKlSCD079517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:47:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0IKFoWm010310 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:15:50 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.108] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A33A4698013E; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:49:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01c3ddfe$3707de00$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:03:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] museumvstheater costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0IKmHVZ021195 Status: RO With the conversations re museum repros of the last week, I found myself looking through snapshots in my collection that have been taken through the years. One group is from Plymouth Plantation that became Plimouth Plantation. In fact these photos go back nearly 50 years! The costumes as well as the 'village' are primitive at best and show the stereotypes of fashion as it was conceived by 19th C artists and crafters. Lots of black, obvious modern closures and fittings, and sameness in style. Contrasted with the well researched standards of today that give the sense of real clothing, it is obvious that a museum standard was a developing factor in the styles and variety that the directors took for the development of their presentation. In fact they are bold to continue to say, "we are a work in progress." I am assuming that Colonial Williamsburg has gone through a similar process. If you look at early brochures readily available, one can observe a change from the movie ideal of costuming that seems evident, to the realistic clothing that relates to class and craft that you will see today. Moving beyond the stereotypes of historic costuming for any site, and especially for those of us who operate outside of endowed arenas, what do you think the basic standard for costumes ought to be? A large number of docents and volunteers are just that.Volunteers. They must often supply their own duds or use the closet from which they can try to use, to be in compliance with a costume requirement/suggestion. (It is possible that there can be too many parking attendants or gift shop clerks). Knowing that the 'professional museums " deal with this factor by having a craft guild that is charged with the development for a 'company wardrobe' this is hard to do for smaller individual sites. As a person who has a theater venue background, but who also has a strong interest in raising the historical conscience regarding clothing appropriate for local Historical Houses, I find myself both elated and frustrated in trying to help them to raise their standards and expectations regarding props and costumes. We are mostly agreed on appropriate fabrics and trims for the class and styles required, but they bend harder when it comes to hair and footwear. (You know, " I don't wear hats and no one is going to see my feet"line.) And there is now the expectation that women will have more or less proper undergarments. My new docents who fall in the under '50' category, have all leaped at the chance to wear a corset, but some of the seasoned ones have resigned. or, "When I loose a little weight". So, after getting them to go for lacing, or buttons ,or hooks and eyes and maybe pins, and wear cotton, wool, linen, fustian, silk (even Real) and leather; to pay attention to layers, to seeing the difference between knitted goods and crocheted items, and woven fabric, to for-go multiple ear piercings and modern watches when in costume, how say you for other basics? And, indeed, what are those other basics to be? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 18 16:27:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0ILRlVZ021288 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:27:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ILRA4S011718; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:27:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ILR8CC094537; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:27:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ILR3CC094497 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:27:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f4f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.79]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CAF932628B0 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:21:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001201c3de00$9bf496d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:21:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] quilted petticoat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0ILRlVZ021288 Status: RO Hi Carolyn, Now, i would say that you living in Amerika, should make it easy to perhaps go to the library and borrow: Costume Close-up Clothing Construktion and Pattern 1750 - 1790. By Linda Baumgarten & John Watson. There are very detailed patterns for 2 quilted petticoats. The first is a pink silk satin quilted with pink silk thread through woolen batting. The batting was dyed pink so as not to show through the thin silk on the right side. The backing fabric is white worsted, woven in plain weave 28 1/2 inch wide and glazed after weaving. This is probably the fabric called tammy in the eighteenth century. The hem binding is a 1 3/8 inch wide ribbed silk ribbon. The petticoat is constructed and quilted with running stitches. The seams of the satin were sewn with right sides together. The seams of the backing are overlapped at the sevage and sewn. The second petticoat in Cream Satin cream glazed worsted backing, undyed woolen batting, silk quilting thread, linen piecing. It is quilted with 12 - 16 running stitches per inch. The satin was seamed to the desired size, assembled with the batting and backing and quilted as a flat piece. The quilting is worked in cream silk with 12 - 16 running stitches to the inch. As is true of the other petticoat, the batting extends only as far as the quilting. Hem The raw edges of the silk and the tammy were turned inside toward each other and stitched with running stitches. I hope this was of some help to you! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 18 19:41:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0J0fNVZ021889 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 19:41:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J0eb4S020213; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:40:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J0eSCC070745; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:40:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J0eQCC070731 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:40:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m175.in-tch.com [216.166.191.175]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0J0INN24994 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:18:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <400B282C.9090605@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:43:24 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] LoTR cloak question.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So...I've just seen Return of the King for the 2nd time, and I want one of the cloaks really badly. Since my loom resources (I've only got a 24" table loom) really don't extend far enough to weave myself an entire cloak, I thought that maybe I could manage a Hereolfsnes-type hood (like the ones on Marc Carlson's website). And I'd do it in the shadow weave pattern shown in the recent issue of _Handwoven_, which has a *lovely* article on the LoTR fellowship cloaks. The wool yarn I'm thinking of using (from MountainColors) has a recommended sett of 8-10 ends per inch. Doesn't say if that's more for tabby weave or twill, though. Since the shadow weave is a twill, could I get away with using a 12-dent reed (which is what I've got on my rented loom)? or would I be better off with a 10-dent one? I'm new enough to weaving that I don't yet know where I can and can't fudge this sort of thing, and I'll have to special-order the yarn, so it's not like I could just buy a little and do a swatch....*sigh* Any ideas, anyone? Thanks, Sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 18 21:28:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0J2SiVZ022218 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:28:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J2S64S025051; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 19:28:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J2S2CC014813; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 19:28:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J2RxCC014802 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 19:28:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.169] (pool180-25.patriot.net [209.249.180.25]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i0J2RtIq017067 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:27:56 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <400ACDB5.8070202@in-tch.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> <400ACDB5.8070202@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:27:46 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century quilted petticoat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, Sue, I've only seen glazed wool in extant garments. Maybe someone else has seen it available? -Carol >Ooooh! Where have you been getting the glazed wool?? I'd love to >know your source! (or did I *sniff* misread, and you've only *seen* >glazed wool in extant garments?) >I've been wanting to do just a few 18th c. garments for the pure >pleasure of doing something post-16th century, and I've got this >lovely silk for the outer layer of the petticoat if I could just >find the glazed wool for the inner layer..... >--sue, who loves to quilt... > >Carol Kocian wrote: > >>Hi Carolyn, >> >> I don't know if there are any extant linen quilted petticoats >>out there. I've seen silk and glazed wool. It sounds like wool is >>more the class you're going for, however there was a trade in >>secondhand clothing and you could wear a silk petticoat that was >>stolen if your character couldn't afford it. A suit weight wool >>with a slight sheen would be good, and black was a popular color >>for quilted petticoats, and it's an easy color to find in tropical >>weight suit wool. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 18 23:26:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0J4QSVZ022545 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 23:26:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J4Po4S000483; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:25:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J4PjCC064165; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:25:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J4PgCC064145 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:25:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-39-238.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.39.238]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J4PdB1000689 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 20:25:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040118200606.057e7cb0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 20:25:31 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century quilted petticoat In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I don't know if there are any extant linen quilted petticoats out > there. I've seen silk and glazed wool. It sounds like wool is more the > class you're going for, however there was a trade in secondhand clothing > and you could wear a silk petticoat that was stolen if your character > couldn't afford it. It need not have been stolen to have been sold second-hand. >A suit weight wool with a slight sheen would be good, and black was a >popular color for quilted petticoats, and it's an easy color to find in >tropical weight suit wool. I'd roast in black wool in the Summer in California, and I have never seen a black original. Most originals I have seen are either screaming yellow or a light green, blue, or pink. I'm using pale pink for mine. > Wool is usually the batting, but much better to use cotton than a > synthetic. Some synthetic battings can pull through a bit to the front > while you quilt. Modern quilters call this 'bearding', when the quilting thread pulls the batting thru to the outside of the quilt, and that's another reason they suggested the thin cotton batting I will be using. It's less than a quarter of an inch thick. > Originals do seem to have been quilted before they were made up into > a petticoat. The quilting does go across the panels of fabric except for > one seam, and often the quilting lines do not match up exactly. I have a few pictures of such an original, tho not to scale, where it shows the inside of that one seam. It doesn't show the outside of that seam, but I should be able to get my lines to match up pretty well by careful planning. > The patterns change over the decades, usually a fancy portion at the > bottom and a "filler" of something simple like diamonds or scallops at > the top. The proportion of top to bottom changed over time, so your > choice of a pattern should reflect the time you're portraying (or earlier > if the petticoat is to appear to have been in use for a while). I'm thinking a line of 'feathers' at the bottom and the rest simple lozenges. I don't want to get in over my head with something so fancy I'll never finish it. And it's not silk, and I'm not upper class, so it doesn't have to be that fancy anyway. > Another choice is to make a petticoat from Marsailles cloth, a > double woven fabric that is still available today. The quilted look > without all those months of hand stitching! Sally Queen's textile book > contains a sample of the fabric. Sorry, but I'm a snob. It's hand quilting or no quilting. And I do have the fabric for a couple of other petticoats with no quilting, as I am reliably informed that I should wear two at all times. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 00:07:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0J57jVZ022615 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:07:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J57A4S002083; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:07:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J578CC080554; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:07:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J576CC080539 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:07:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.169] (pool180-47.patriot.net [209.249.180.47]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i0J573Iq031143 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:07:04 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040118200606.057e7cb0@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040118200606.057e7cb0@mail.frys.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:06:02 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century quilted petticoat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> I don't know if there are any extant linen quilted petticoats >>out there. I've seen silk and glazed wool. It sounds like wool is >>more the class you're going for, however there was a trade in >>secondhand clothing and you could wear a silk petticoat that was >>stolen if your character couldn't afford it. > >It need not have been stolen to have been sold second-hand. Sorry I wasn't clear, it could have been resold or stolen. >I'd roast in black wool in the Summer in California, and I have >never seen a black original. Most originals I have seen are either >screaming yellow or a light green, blue, or pink. I'm using pale >pink for mine. Black quilted petticoats are mentioned in runaway descriptions. >I have a few pictures of such an original, tho not to scale, where >it shows the inside of that one seam. It doesn't show the outside >of that seam, but I should be able to get my lines to match up >pretty well by careful planning. The interesting thing is, some extant quilted petticoats were not that carefully planned. >I'm thinking a line of 'feathers' at the bottom and the rest simple >lozenges. I don't want to get in over my head with something so >fancy I'll never finish it. And it's not silk, and I'm not upper >class, so it doesn't have to be that fancy anyway. I suggest research as far as the quilt patterns. I haven't looked at them lately & may not be remembering correctly, but I think the earlier 18thC petticoats had wider patterned areas and the later ones had narrower patterns at the bottom and more "filler". >> Another choice is to make a petticoat from Marsailles cloth, a >>double woven fabric that is still available today. The quilted >>look without all those months of hand stitching! Sally Queen's >>textile book contains a sample of the fabric. > >Sorry, but I'm a snob. It's hand quilting or no quilting. And I do >have the fabric for a couple of other petticoats with no quilting, >as I am reliably informed that I should wear two at all times. Marsailles cloth petticoats were worn in the 18thC. It's not a 21stC fake. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 00:18:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0J5IVVZ022621 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:18:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J5Hp4S002520; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:17:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J5HoCC084483; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:17:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J5HmCC084472 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:17:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m34.in-tch.com [216.166.191.34]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0J4tjN15078 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:55:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <400B692E.7090403@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:20:46 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century quilted petticoat References: <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> <400ACDB5.8070202@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Aw, bummer. I've been very intrigued by it since I first saw it in the couple of books I have on clothing from that time period, and it's not exactly a process I can recreate at home! --sue Carol Kocian wrote: > > Sorry, Sue, I've only seen glazed wool in extant garments. Maybe > someone else has seen it available? > > -Carol > > >> Ooooh! Where have you been getting the glazed wool?? I'd love to know >> your source! (or did I *sniff* misread, and you've only *seen* glazed >> wool in extant garments?) >> I've been wanting to do just a few 18th c. garments for the pure >> pleasure of doing something post-16th century, and I've got this >> lovely silk for the outer layer of the petticoat if I could just find >> the glazed wool for the inner layer..... >> --sue, who loves to quilt... >> >> Carol Kocian wrote: >> >>> Hi Carolyn, >>> >>> I don't know if there are any extant linen quilted petticoats >>> out there. I've seen silk and glazed wool. It sounds like wool is >>> more the class you're going for, however there was a trade in >>> secondhand clothing and you could wear a silk petticoat that was >>> stolen if your character couldn't afford it. A suit weight wool with >>> a slight sheen would be good, and black was a popular color for >>> quilted petticoats, and it's an easy color to find in tropical weight >>> suit wool. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 00:21:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0J5LhVZ022629 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:21:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J5Kv4S002686; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:20:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J5KuCC085771; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:20:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J5KrCC085716 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:20:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzanne-manley@telus.net) Received: from sookeqr1neuk4p ([207.81.31.214]) by priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040118224547.FNMJ26803.priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net@sookeqr1neuk4p> for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:45:47 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01c3de18$c12b5610$9a02a8c0@sookeqr1neuk4p> From: "Suzanne Manley" To: Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:13:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] costumes for singers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you all for your suggestions and information. Corsets are much more interesting and adaptable than I had thought; also, the info. on gender parity was 'news' - maybe we can start a revival of men's corsets? ;->. So now I need to spend some time absorbing and sythesizing; but unfortunately the rest of my life is interfering with my costume-making. Sigh. When everything settles down again (June?) I'll be back... Suzanne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 03:34:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0J8YtVZ016589 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 03:34:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J8YF4S008437; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 01:34:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J8Y6Dw054755; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 01:34:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tyler.snap.net.nz (tyler.snap.net.nz [202.37.101.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J8Y3Dw054734 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 01:34:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from geard@verso.org) Received: from p178-dialup.snap.net.nz ([202.124.102.178] helo=ajax) by tyler.snap.net.nz with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 ) id 1Ai9W4-0005MP-00 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:46:48 +1300 Received: from libre ([192.168.255.21]) by ajax with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 1Ai9DD-00038Q-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:27:19 +1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Jennifer Geard To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] LOTR-Arwen's head-dress Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:19:27 +1300 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <4007969C.1050306@pcez.com> In-Reply-To: <4007969C.1050306@pcez.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200401182219.27250.geard@verso.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i0J8Y3Dw054734 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:45, Roscelin wrote: > I was curious if anyone knows who the jeweler/metal smith was who > designed and created the beautiful silver headdress that Arwen was > wearing at the end of the "Return of the King". The jeweller for the production is Jasmine Watson, so I'd guess she'd have done that headdress. While I like Jasmine Watson's work (quite a lot, actually), her website at http://www.jasminewatson.com/home/homeFrameset.html is frustrating: frames, broken links and not yet any images from RotK. :-) Cheers, Jennifer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 03:58:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0J8wJVZ016624 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 03:58:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J8ve4S009042; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 01:57:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J8vZDw061759; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 01:57:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J8vXDw061750 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 01:57:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-39-238.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.39.238]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0J87EFD028141 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:07:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040118233917.059a34b0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:07:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century quilted petticoat In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20040118200606.057e7cb0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040118200606.057e7cb0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>I'd roast in black wool in the Summer in California, and I have never >>seen a black original. Most originals I have seen are either screaming >>yellow or a light green, blue, or pink. I'm using pale pink for mine. > > Black quilted petticoats are mentioned in runaway descriptions. I happen never to have heard of such a thing. So mine wasn't planned to be that colour. The darkest thing I am wearing will be some indigo blue striped stuff I found. > The interesting thing is, some extant quilted petticoats were not > that carefully planned. Interesting that the planning should be off when the stitching is so finely done. >>I'm thinking a line of 'feathers' at the bottom and the rest simple >>lozenges. I don't want to get in over my head with something so fancy >>I'll never finish it. And it's not silk, and I'm not upper class, so it >>doesn't have to be that fancy anyway. > > I suggest research as far as the quilt patterns. I haven't looked > at them lately & may not be remembering correctly, but I think the > earlier 18thC petticoats had wider patterned areas and the later ones had > narrower patterns at the bottom and more "filler". I'm trying for about 1750-70. I've seen some really fancy quilting on some earlier petticoats, where the work looks almost corded. I'm not that great of an embroiderer unless I can count threads and do cross stitch. So I'm planning to do about a foot-wide border of 'feathers' and nothing else but the lozenges. I've seen one undated original done this way. >>Sorry, but I'm a snob. It's hand quilting or no quilting. And I do have >>the fabric for a couple of other petticoats with no quilting, as I am >>reliably informed that I should wear two at all times. > > Marsailles cloth petticoats were worn in the 18thC. It's not a > 21stC fake. That may be, but it's me who's the snob. I can't afford really nice fabric, like silk and brocade, so I usually spend the time doing lots of visible handwork, which I can afford. At CostumeCons I never won big presentation awards but I did seem to consistently win workmanship awards for embroidery and detail work. So I really 'need' a hand quilted petticoat for this costume, because it's the only place I have to show off. If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with embroidery. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 10:40:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JFeWVZ019086 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:40:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JFcr4S023037; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:38:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JFbcDw001515; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:37:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net (badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JFbZDw001472 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:37:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0JEBoO16875 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:11:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Aia86-0001Ki-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:11:50 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 07:12:02 -0700 Message-ID: <004c01c3de96$36174060$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Lions of Fashion Source? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know where you can get this book in the US? I have a source for it overseas, but it costs about as much to send it as the book itself. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 11:07:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JG7TVZ019141 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:07:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JG6p4S025400; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:06:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JG5dDw017346; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:05:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JG5bDw017254 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:05:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED22742615 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:57:22 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <400BFC7D.6050301@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:49:17 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] museumvstheater costume References: <000a01c3ddfe$3707de00$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <000a01c3ddfe$3707de00$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > So, after getting them to go for lacing, or buttons ,or hooks and eyes and maybe pins, and wear cotton, wool, linen, fustian, silk (even Real) and leather; to pay attention to layers, to seeing the difference between knitted goods and crocheted items, and woven fabric, to for-go multiple ear piercings and modern watches when in costume, how say you for other basics? And, indeed, what are those other basics to be? If you've gotten that far, then things like modern hair (even without a hat), makeup, and nail polish really start to stand out. After that, posture and pose and attitude. If you're working with actors, the last should be easier, I'd think. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 11:24:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JGOBVZ019208 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:24:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JGNU4S026660; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:23:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JGMIDw027233; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:22:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JGMFDw027175 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:22:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEA942625 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:05:36 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <400BFE6A.4040409@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:57:30 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century quilted petticoat References: <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040118200606.057e7cb0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040118200606.057e7cb0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> Originals do seem to have been quilted before they were made up >> into a petticoat. The quilting does go across the panels of fabric >> except for one seam, and often the quilting lines do not match up >> exactly. > > > I have a few pictures of such an original, tho not to scale, where it > shows the inside of that one seam. It doesn't show the outside of that > seam, but I should be able to get my lines to match up pretty well by > careful planning. One of the things you can do is to finish the quilting to within an inch or two of the seam, sew the seam, and then complete the quilting over the seam. This will help get your lines to match up a little better. Quilting stitches didn't necessarily have to be tiny, it was more important to have them consistent and straight. Obviously, women who could do very fine stitching and trapunto would get work making the higher priced/ higher quality ladies garments. Lower class women would wear more 'serviceable' garments. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 14:20:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JJKvO7020247 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:20:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JJKE4S014183; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:20:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JJK4Dw039469; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:20:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JJK2Dw039389 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:20:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.155.2bb5c510 (4459) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:14:41 -0500 (EST) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <155.2bb5c510.2d3d86a0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:14:40 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10712 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Digitzing Pads for Embroidery Machines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings All - I am sorry that this is bit a off topic. But i know there are quite a few people out there who use Embroidery Machines. And, I was wondering if anyone out there used a digitizing pad instead of a mouse when working with their Digitizing Software. I am trying to decide if I want to spend the money to buy one, but nobody (including Brother, I am using PE-Design) knows if it will work. Kit Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 16:49:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JLneO7020878 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:49:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JLlf4S026699; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:47:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JLlbDw030695; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:47:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JLlWDw030649 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:47:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formo@lynchburg.edu) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:32:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1D343D1FCF315A4BAF27482263DDD45E4F055C@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" , "'sca-garb@yahoogroups.com'" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:32:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cloaks and hoods question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry to cross post to both lists but I forget where I saw this info originally. It took me until the middle of last week to catch up on all my email lists from over the Christmas break. Somewhere in there I saw a post with a side comment about how hoods aren't period on most types of cloaks. I thought I saved that email but I can't find it now. So my question is of course, is this true or partly true or false? One of my projects over Christmas was making a new cloak. I've got a nice WARM circle cloak now. 3-layers. Med weight black wool, cheap fairly thin cotton, then green cotton flannel for the inner layer. I won't be cold wearing this. I've completed most of it but ran out of time to finish the trim and the hood. So I want to know how authentic it is to have a hood on a full circle cloak. If a hood is not correct then what would most men have worn to keep the head warm? I usually don't care for hats so being hoodless won't bother me too much but there have been times around a camp fire that I appreciate any extra layer for my head I can find. I don't have an exact period I portray. Too many fun clothes to settle on just one time period. (Though with fencing and dance I usually end up in doublets) Thanks for any help you can offer. Bjorn Arnaldsson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 16:51:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JLpGO7020886 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:51:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JLoa4S026942; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:50:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JLoZDw032472; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:50:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf22.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf22.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JLoXDw032411 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:50:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Received: from laptop ([68.185.168.247]) by mxsf22.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.10/8.12.8) with SMTP id i0JLS9bp054067 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:28:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Message-ID: <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:28:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] oilcloth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone tell me what oilcloth was made of? Is there anyway to make my own authentic oilcloth? ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 17:03:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JM3dO7020935 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:03:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JM334S027927; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:03:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JM32Dw041986; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:03:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JM30Dx041971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:03:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0JM01Pp020194 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:00:01 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:00:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <400C5460.4000802@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:04:16 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloaks and hoods question References: <1D343D1FCF315A4BAF27482263DDD45E4F055C@exchange.lynchburg.edu> In-Reply-To: <1D343D1FCF315A4BAF27482263DDD45E4F055C@exchange.lynchburg.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Formo, Nathan wrote: > So I want to know how authentic it is to have a hood on a full circle cloak. > If a hood is not correct then what would most men have worn to keep the head > warm? A separate hood. They're great! You can wear them with a cloak, or without, when it's not terribly cold but you need head protection or warmth. (I have a bald friend who has a linen one for the summer. He loves it.) There are several pages with info on hoods. Marc Carlson's at and my own at http://www.virtue.to/articles/hoodlum.html > I don't have an exact period I portray. > Too many fun clothes to settle on just one time period. (Though with > fencing and dance I usually end up in doublets) I can't speak for after about 1440, but up until that time, it seems to be mostly separate cloaks and hoods. (And for the tolkein readers, this seems to be what he means by Thorin & Co.'s "best party hoods" which they hang in Bilbo's hallway. And hoods are excellent for the ski slopes.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 17:13:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JMD6O7020973 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:13:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMCN4S028741; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:12:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMCNDw047900; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:12:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMCKDw047871 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:12:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A6434C04FE; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:12:19 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cloaks and hoods question Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:12:19 -0600 Message-ID: <002901c3ded9$4e3b3b40$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <1D343D1FCF315A4BAF27482263DDD45E4F055C@exchange.lynchburg.edu> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, sounds yummy! I have a full circle cloak of brown corduroy lined with velour robe fleece (done quarterly in Pink and navy- it was on sale cheap!) it has a hood simply because I like them- this one is big enough to cover head and face and right on down to the cloak clasp if I tip my head forward. I can't claim it is period but it sure is useful! The fake sheepskin trim around the front opening is a nice decorative contrast, I think. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Formo, Nathan Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 3:32 PM To: 'h-costume@indra.com'; 'sca-garb@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [h-cost] Cloaks and hoods question Sorry to cross post to both lists but I forget where I saw this info originally. One of my projects over Christmas was making a new cloak. I've got a nice WARM circle cloak now. 3-layers. Med weight black wool, cheap fairly thin cotton, then green cotton flannel for the inner layer. I won't be cold wearing this. I've completed most of it but ran out of time to finish the trim and the hood. So I want to know how authentic it is to have a hood on a full circle cloak. If a hood is not correct then what would most men have worn to keep the head warm? I usually don't care for hats so being hoodless won't bother me too much but there have been times around a camp fire that I appreciate any extra layer for my head I can find. I don't have an exact period I portray. Too many fun clothes to settle on just one time period. (Though with fencing and dance I usually end up in doublets) Thanks for any help you can offer. Bjorn Arnaldsson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 17:17:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JMHRO7020985 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:17:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMGk4S029104; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:16:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMGjDw050444; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:16:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav27.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMGgDw050382 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:16:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:59:19 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav27.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:59:18 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:59:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jan 2004 21:59:19.0204 (UTC) FILETIME=[7CF17640:01C3DED7] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Early oilcloth looked quite stylish. It came in solid colors as well as in geometric patterns and ornate designs that mimicked fancy damasks. But it wasn't actually fancy at all. It was made from heavy canvas or cotton fabric that was rendered waterproof with coatings of linseed oil and paint. Today, it is difficult to find true oilcloth. When it fell out of style, most of what remained was discarded. Modern versions, however, which are made of plastic or vinyl woven with cotton, are just as versatile and long-lasting. Their cut edges won't fray, which makes them especially easy to work with. From: http://www.detnews.com/2002/decorating/0208/26/e06-558227.htm Definition: cloth rendered waterproof by treatment with oil or paint, and used for marking garments, covering tables, shelves, floors, etc. So you know...modern oilcloth is the stuff they make tablecloths from. I would think simply treating some canvas with linseed will be fine. It gets translucent when you do this. I've only done it once myself to treat a canvas floor cloth. B~ ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb Heraldry Books http://snipurl.com/3wh4 For the month of January list people get $2 off shipping Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= > Can anyone tell me what oilcloth was made of? Is there anyway to make my own > authentic oilcloth? > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > A room without books is like a body without a soul > ---Cicero _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 17:30:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JMUuO7021022 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:30:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMUN4S000188; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:30:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMUJDw058330; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:30:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMUFDx058278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:30:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0JMRFPp020302 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:27:15 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:27:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <400C5AC2.6040703@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:31:30 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth References: <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bice d'Este wrote: > It was made from heavy canvas or cotton fabric > that was rendered waterproof with coatings of linseed oil and paint. Years ago... hmm, must have been about 1990, there was a fad of (allegedly) Australian [sheep] rancher's coats for men. They were a bit like a greatcoat, in that they had an elbow-length capelet over something rather like a loose trenchcoat. A cow-orker bought one; it came with extra oil for re-treating it when it stopped repelling water, because it was supposedly "real" oilcloth. It smelled a bit like a quality canvas tarp; a smell I believe is clean 'machine oil' but I'm not sure of the technical term for the type of oil used. Since I don't know what linseed oil smells like, I couldn't say if that was what the oil used was, or not. It did not feel oily in any way, but almost like it was faintly damp or cool to the touch. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 17:51:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JMp9O7021087 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:51:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMoF4S001806; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:50:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMoDDw071222; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:50:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMo8Dw071157 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:50:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion (213-78-103-84.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.103.84]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ATH99059; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:50:00 GMT Message-ID: <010301c3dedf$89fae3a0$54674ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> <400C5AC2.6040703@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:56:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We still have waxed jackets here and you can buy the fabric (UK) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 17:57:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JMvZO7021105 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:57:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMux4S002423; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:56:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMuvDw075271; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:56:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JMuqDx075210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:56:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.135]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/linuxconf) with SMTP id i0JMp4x4019780 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:51:04 +1100 Message-ID: <099d01c3dede$c8592fe0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> <400C5AC2.6040703@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:51:27 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Cynthia, My husband has one - they're definitely used by Australian farmers (most popular brand is Driza-Bone). Them, an Akubra Hat (felt) and a pair of RM Williams boots (one seams at back only, no leaks) are indespensible. Mind you, with the drought we've been suffering these last few years, no-one's been needing to get them out much. They're not coated with linseed oil. Too thick. The Drizabone oil is a secret formulation, so I can't help with that. It does stink, though. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth > Bice d'Este wrote: > > It was made from heavy canvas or cotton fabric > > that was rendered waterproof with coatings of linseed oil and paint. > > Years ago... hmm, must have been about 1990, there was a fad of > (allegedly) Australian [sheep] rancher's coats for men. They were a bit > like a greatcoat, in that they had an elbow-length capelet over > something rather like a loose trenchcoat. > > A cow-orker bought one; it came with extra oil for re-treating it when > it stopped repelling water, because it was supposedly "real" oilcloth. > It smelled a bit like a quality canvas tarp; a smell I believe is clean > 'machine oil' but I'm not sure of the technical term for the type of oil > used. Since I don't know what linseed oil smells like, I couldn't say > if that was what the oil used was, or not. It did not feel oily in any > way, but almost like it was faintly damp or cool to the touch. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 18:15:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JNFMO7021140 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:15:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JNEg4S003713; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:14:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JNEdDw085929; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:14:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav28.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JNEZDw085836 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:14:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:57:13 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav28.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:57:12 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> <400C5AC2.6040703@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:57:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jan 2004 22:57:13.0223 (UTC) FILETIME=[939EB170:01C3DEDF] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have seen oilcloth used as window covering in old huhnt lodges up in the adirondacks when I was a kid. Maybe 85 or so. (was born in 72) and after a while there is no smell. But when you put fresh oil on to make them more translucent it smells. blech. ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 19, 2004 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth > Bice d'Este wrote: > > It was made from heavy canvas or cotton fabric > > that was rendered waterproof with coatings of linseed oil and paint. > > Years ago... hmm, must have been about 1990, there was a fad of > (allegedly) Australian [sheep] rancher's coats for men. They were a bit > like a greatcoat, in that they had an elbow-length capelet over > something rather like a loose trenchcoat. > > A cow-orker bought one; it came with extra oil for re-treating it when > it stopped repelling water, because it was supposedly "real" oilcloth. > It smelled a bit like a quality canvas tarp; a smell I believe is clean > 'machine oil' but I'm not sure of the technical term for the type of oil > used. Since I don't know what linseed oil smells like, I couldn't say > if that was what the oil used was, or not. It did not feel oily in any > way, but almost like it was faintly damp or cool to the touch. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 18:16:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JNGiO7021143 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:16:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JNGA4S003830; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:16:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JNG9Dw086804; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:16:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JNG4Dw086763 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:16:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f75.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.117]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 947EC47FF3A for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:57:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001e01c3ded7$3014a4a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1D343D1FCF315A4BAF27482263DDD45E4F055C@exchange.lynchburg.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloaks and hoods question Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:57:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Bjorn. Now i dont remember your original post, but are you referring to 18th century cloaks for gentlemen? If that is the case, it is right, that they did not use a hood. Only a collar attached to the cirkle cloak. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Formo, Nathan" To: ; Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:32 PM Subject: [h-cost] Cloaks and hoods question > Sorry to cross post to both lists but I forget where I saw this info > originally. > > It took me until the middle of last week to catch up on all my email lists > from over the Christmas break. Somewhere in there I saw a post with a side > comment about how hoods aren't period on most types of cloaks. I thought I > saved that email but I can't find it now. So my question is of course, is > this true or partly true or false? > > One of my projects over Christmas was making a new cloak. I've got a nice > WARM circle cloak now. 3-layers. Med weight black wool, cheap fairly thin > cotton, then green cotton flannel for the inner layer. I won't be cold > wearing this. I've completed most of it but ran out of time to finish the > trim and the hood. > > So I want to know how authentic it is to have a hood on a full circle cloak. > If a hood is not correct then what would most men have worn to keep the head > warm? I usually don't care for hats so being hoodless won't bother me too > much but there have been times around a camp fire that I appreciate any > extra layer for my head I can find. I don't have an exact period I portray. > Too many fun clothes to settle on just one time period. (Though with > fencing and dance I usually end up in doublets) > > Thanks for any help you can offer. > > Bjorn Arnaldsson > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 18:40:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JNeXO7021199 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:40:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JNdt4S005866; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:39:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JNdqDw099853; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:39:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf02.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf02.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JNdoDw099790 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:39:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Received: from laptop ([68.185.168.247]) by mxsf02.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.10/8.12.8) with SMTP id i0JNMM8L022517 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:22:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Message-ID: <002801c3dee3$1793a3c0$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net><400C5AC2.6040703@thibault.org> <010301c3dedf$89fae3a0$54674ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:22:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mel, what is the fabric called, and do you have any online retail distributors? > We still have waxed jackets here and you can buy the fabric (UK) > > Mel > ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 18:48:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0JNlxO7021244 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:48:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JNlO4S006540; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:47:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0JNlMDw004064; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:47:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0JNlKDw004003 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:47:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Olv3pv/PmW7VMX3JO6gcAf4=">; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:39:51 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JLAW5LKN; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:39:51 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:39:25 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloaks and hoods question Message-ID: <20040119.153928.936.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-5,7-52 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: sca-garb@yahoogroups.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You might try making a separate hood. Another idea would be to make Ye Olde medieval coif (cap). Mine's cotton lined with flannel--it's lovely on those iffy days. Arlys On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:32:28 -0500 "Formo, Nathan" writes: > Sorry to cross post to both lists but I forget where I saw this info > originally. > > It took me until the middle of last week to catch up on all my email > lists > from over the Christmas break. Somewhere in there I saw a post with > a side > comment about how hoods aren't period on most types of cloaks. I > thought I > saved that email but I can't find it now. So my question is of > course, is > this true or partly true or false? > > One of my projects over Christmas was making a new cloak. I've got > a nice > WARM circle cloak now. 3-layers. Med weight black wool, cheap > fairly thin > cotton, then green cotton flannel for the inner layer. I won't be > cold > wearing this. I've completed most of it but ran out of time to > finish the > trim and the hood. > > So I want to know how authentic it is to have a hood on a full > circle cloak. > If a hood is not correct then what would most men have worn to keep > the head > warm? I usually don't care for hats so being hoodless won't bother > me too > much but there have been times around a camp fire that I appreciate > any > extra layer for my head I can find. I don't have an exact period I > portray. > Too many fun clothes to settle on just one time period. (Though > with > fencing and dance I usually end up in doublets) > > Thanks for any help you can offer. > > Bjorn Arnaldsson > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 19:54:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0K0sjO7021522 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:54:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K0rt4S011325; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:53:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K0rr7g036737; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:53:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K0rk7h036677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:53:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0K1AaWm003858 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:10:36 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.128] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9B98FC200B0; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:43:37 -0500 Message-ID: <001401c3def0$84e010a0$805183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000a01c3ddfe$3707de00$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> <400BFC7D.6050301@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] museumvstheater costume Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:58:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The point of attitude is a good one. But re actors, as this is not a first person site, most of the volunteers are not the 'acting type'. I guess, however, that the same comments I might give actors before going on stage, especially among amateurs, would be understood. For women. I at least can sometimes persuade them to don some sort of hair covering. It was interesting to see the effect of being in a larger crowd at a festive event that they were taking note as to which costumes were more 'real' that others. I can only hope that they were putting themselves in the 'judgement'. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] museumvstheater costume > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > > So, after getting them to go for lacing, or buttons ,or hooks and eyes and maybe pins, and wear cotton, wool, linen, fustian, silk (even Real) and leather; to pay attention to layers, to seeing the difference between knitted goods and crocheted items, and woven fabric, to for-go multiple ear piercings and modern watches when in costume, how say you for other basics? And, indeed, what are those other basics to be? > > If you've gotten that far, then things like modern hair (even without a > hat), makeup, and nail polish really start to stand out. After that, > posture and pose and attitude. If you're working with actors, the last > should be easier, I'd think. > > > > Dawn > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 19:59:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0K0xEO7021531 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:59:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K0wa4S011554; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:58:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K0wZ7g038844; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:58:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K0wW7h038823 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:58:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0K1FXWm012344 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:15:33 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.128] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAE4921300B0; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:48:36 -0500 Message-ID: <002a01c3def1$36df6300$805183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:03:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If it is the 'look' and not the real thing, I have found that plastic picnic tablecloths with the flannel backing can be sprayed suitable colors and make a 'fair showing' when stitched up in period styles. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth > Early oilcloth looked quite stylish. It came in solid colors as well as in > geometric patterns and ornate designs that mimicked fancy damasks. But it > wasn't actually fancy at all. It was made from heavy canvas or cotton fabric > that was rendered waterproof with coatings of linseed oil and paint. > Today, it is difficult to find true oilcloth. When it fell out of style, > most of what remained was discarded. > Modern versions, however, which are made of plastic or vinyl woven with > cotton, are just as versatile and long-lasting. Their cut edges won't fray, > which makes them especially easy to work with. > From: http://www.detnews.com/2002/decorating/0208/26/e06-558227.htm > > Definition: cloth rendered waterproof by treatment with oil or paint, and > used for marking garments, covering tables, shelves, floors, etc. > So you know...modern oilcloth is the stuff they make tablecloths from. I > would think simply treating some canvas with linseed will be fine. It gets > translucent when you do this. I've only done it once myself to treat a > canvas floor cloth. > > B~ > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > Heraldry Books http://snipurl.com/3wh4 > For the month of January > list people get $2 off shipping > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > ============================= > > Can anyone tell me what oilcloth was made of? Is there anyway to make my > own > > authentic oilcloth? > > > > ********************** > > Rebecca Schmitt > > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > > BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > > > A room without books is like a body without a soul > > ---Cicero > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 20:00:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0K10XO7021540 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:00:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K0xt4S011633; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:59:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K0xs7g039474; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:59:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K0xq7h039459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:59:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0K1GrWm014583 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:16:53 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.128] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB3492D600B0; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:49:56 -0500 Message-ID: <003001c3def1$66ccfaa0$805183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> <400C5AC2.6040703@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:04:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So'westers were also made of oil cloth. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth > Bice d'Este wrote: > > It was made from heavy canvas or cotton fabric > > that was rendered waterproof with coatings of linseed oil and paint. > > Years ago... hmm, must have been about 1990, there was a fad of > (allegedly) Australian [sheep] rancher's coats for men. They were a bit > like a greatcoat, in that they had an elbow-length capelet over > something rather like a loose trenchcoat. > > A cow-orker bought one; it came with extra oil for re-treating it when > it stopped repelling water, because it was supposedly "real" oilcloth. > It smelled a bit like a quality canvas tarp; a smell I believe is clean > 'machine oil' but I'm not sure of the technical term for the type of oil > used. Since I don't know what linseed oil smells like, I couldn't say > if that was what the oil used was, or not. It did not feel oily in any > way, but almost like it was faintly damp or cool to the touch. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 20:44:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0K1iUO7021668 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:44:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K1hq4S014479; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:43:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K1hm7g059659; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:43:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12501.mail.yahoo.com (web12501.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0K1hj7g059635 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:43:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sorepaws@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040120013703.39563.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.43.239.90] by web12501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:37:03 PST Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:37:03 -0800 (PST) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200401200055.i0K0sp7i037278@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Image Re-Search - Anyone know who where when this guy is from? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi .. Pardon the slightly offtopic post (I am rarely de-lurking) but I need to get some information about a picture that one of my housemates gave me .. basically we will be making another housemate the garb but the picture is very hard to see from and I was hoping that either someone out there had a source for a more clear/bigger copy of the image or could tell me what kind of hat/boots and jewelry the guy was wearing and maybe point out a good place to find similar items pictures. I'm driving myself nuts trying to find this info based only on the picture and the fact that the character in it is italian and probably from the early 1600's ... I hope someone can help .. the image can be found at : http://www.cranky-kitty.com/guyfie.jpg Many thanks in advance ~~~~ - Lil (the lost and confused one again ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 20:59:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0K1xwO7021713 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:59:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K1xG4S015209; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:59:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K1xF7g066274; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:59:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K1xE7h066224 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:59:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004012001501001100jhfd5e>; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 01:50:10 +0000 Message-ID: <400C8954.5050402@fenris.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:50:12 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth References: <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> <400C5AC2.6040703@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <400C5AC2.6040703@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Bice d'Este wrote: > >> It was made from heavy canvas or cotton fabric >> that was rendered waterproof with coatings of linseed oil and paint. > > > Years ago... hmm, must have been about 1990, there was a fad of > (allegedly) Australian [sheep] rancher's coats for men. They were a > bit like a greatcoat, in that they had an elbow-length capelet over > something rather like a loose trenchcoat. > > A cow-orker bought one; it came with extra oil for re-treating it when > it stopped repelling water, because it was supposedly "real" oilcloth. > It smelled a bit like a quality canvas tarp; a smell I believe is > clean 'machine oil' but I'm not sure of the technical term for the > type of oil used. Since I don't know what linseed oil smells like, I > couldn't say if that was what the oil used was, or not. It did not > feel oily in any way, but almost like it was faintly damp or cool to > the touch. > I still have one, but no longer have the tin of stuff to re waterproof it. I believe it was partially beeswax and maybe linseed oil. Was really waterproof. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 21:00:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0K201O7021719 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:00:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K1vT4S015148; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:57:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K1vR7g065499; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:57:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback-mx2.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@fallback-mx2.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K1vP7g065480 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:57:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from mail13.atl.registeredsite.com (mail13.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.87]) by fallback-mx2.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0K0eMrp017325 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:40:25 -0500 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail13.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0K0k7NE015849 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:46:07 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.34.246]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:46:05 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:45:59 -0500 Message-ID: <03f001c3deee$c63c01f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] La Mode Bagatelle Regency pattern - experiences? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone on the list ever worked with the La Mode Bagatelle Regency wardrobe pattern? I am currently using this for the first time and am having some real frustrations with it! I am fitting it over the Mantua Maker 1800-1820 stays, which fit perfectly and create the correct "pushed up" silhouette, but this pattern seems to be designed to be worn with modern undergarments. I say this because the front of the dress plunges *extremely* low - 3" or more below the top edge of my stays. I've had to take it up around 3" of the front strap and 1 1/2" in the back just to make the neckline fall correctly. Also, where is the back waist supposed to fall during this time period? The adjustments I made place the back waist just about even with my shoulder blades - I know waistlines are high, but *that* high? It's also rather baggy, yet taking up the straps has made the armseyes extremely tight. Am I not placing the shoulder seam correctly? Also, does this pattern run large or small? I cut for a size 12, but the way it is fitting I'm suspecting I need a size 10 in the back and a size 6 in the front to make it look like the pattern envelope! Sorry to pummel with so many questions, but I feel like I am short of time and money - I cannot go out and get another company's pattern, so I must make La Mode Bagatelle work. Any suggestions anyone can offer will be appreciated beyond belief!! Thanks in advance, Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 21:01:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0K21NO7021746 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:01:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K20v4S015258; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:00:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K20u7g067145; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:00:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K20q7h067102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:00:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0K1vgPp022171 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:57:42 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:57:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <400C8C15.6050404@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:01:57 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image Re-Search - Anyone know who where when this guy is from? References: <20040120013703.39563.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040120013703.39563.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lil Sorepaws wrote: > I'm driving myself nuts > trying to find this info based only on the picture and the fact that the > character in it is italian and probably from the early 1600's ... I hope > someone can help .. the image can be found at : > > http://www.cranky-kitty.com/guyfie.jpg That is almost certainly the Duke of Burgundy, circa 1450, maybe a bit later. Not sure exactly which Duke, though. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 21:27:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0K2RjO7022030 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:27:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K2R94S016764; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:27:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K2R67g078462; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:27:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.k12.hi.us (honu.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K2R47g078438 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:27:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from makani (makani.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.195]) by smtp.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A502506DB for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:04:54 -1000 (HST) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:06:57 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image Re-Search - Anyone know who where when this guy is from? In-Reply-To: <400C8C15.6050404@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > That is almost certainly the Duke of Burgundy, circa 1450, maybe a bit > later. Not sure exactly which Duke, though. Philip the Good. Cite I have is Flemish, 1448. MS 9242, fol. Ir. Bibliotheque Royale de Belgique, Brussels _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 22:12:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0K3CYO7022580 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:12:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K3Bs4S019399; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:11:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K3Bp7g096508; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:11:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound1.mail.tds.net (outbound1.mail.tds.net [216.170.230.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K3Bn7g096495 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:11:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from htackett@tds.net) Received: from death (smga1dsl-1150.ga.tds.net [69.21.88.130]) by outbound1.mail.tds.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i0JH9mnc020431 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:09:52 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <005501c3deaf$0d03ecf0$6401a8c0@death> From: "Harold and Dinah Tackett" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004c01c3de96$36174060$6501a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lions of Fashion Source? Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:09:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > Does anyone know where you can get this book in the US? I have a source for > it overseas, but it costs about as much to send it as the book itself. > Sg Try this http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookDetailsPL?bi=202279862 out of UK. They have the book for US$ 83.30 and list shipping's as $9.17 slow to $15.90 5 to 10 days I hope this helps, Sayyida Dinah bint Ismai'l _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 22:58:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0K3wuO7022742 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:58:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K3wI4S022159; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:58:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K3wH7g015845; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:58:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K3wF7g015831 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:58:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-33-255.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.33.255]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K3vOFB006094 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:57:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040119184136.00da4580@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:42:06 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century quilted petticoat In-Reply-To: <400BFE6A.4040409@reddawn.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20040118200606.057e7cb0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040117211625.05a76550@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040118200606.057e7cb0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> Originals do seem to have been quilted before they were made up >>> into a petticoat. The quilting does go across the panels of fabric >>> except for one seam, and often the quilting lines do not match up exactly. >> >>I have a few pictures of such an original, tho not to scale, where it >>shows the inside of that one seam. It doesn't show the outside of that >>seam, but I should be able to get my lines to match up pretty well by >>careful planning. > >One of the things you can do is to finish the quilting to within an inch >or two of the seam, sew the seam, and then complete the quilting over the >seam. This will help get your lines to match up a little better. That was my idea too. >Quilting stitches didn't necessarily have to be tiny, it was more >important to have them consistent and straight. Obviously, women who could >do very fine stitching and trapunto would get work making the higher >priced/ higher quality ladies garments. Lower class women would wear more >'serviceable' garments. My sentiments exactly. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 19 23:04:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0K44XO7022768 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:04:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K43s4S022628; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:03:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K43s7g018267; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:03:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K43q7g018250 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:03:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-33-255.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.33.255]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K434FB012532 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:03:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040119200159.06255270@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:03:43 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth In-Reply-To: <400C8954.5050402@fenris.net> References: <400C5AC2.6040703@thibault.org> <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> <400C5AC2.6040703@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Years ago... hmm, must have been about 1990, there was a fad of >>(allegedly) Australian [sheep] rancher's coats for men. They were a bit >>like a greatcoat, in that they had an elbow-length capelet over something >>rather like a loose trenchcoat. >I still have one, but no longer have the tin of stuff to re waterproof it. >I believe it was partially beeswax and maybe linseed oil. Was really >waterproof. My Sweetie has one of these, tho it never came with a tin of anything. It's still waterproof, tho he wads it up and it's full of wrinkles. I grew up in California, so I have umbrellas only, no raincoats. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 00:41:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0K5fSO7023041 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 00:41:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K5el4S027578; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:40:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K5eg7g057155; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:40:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out012.verizon.net (out012pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K5ee7g057143 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:40:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.83.114.185]) by out012.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040120023026.DMOT1590.out012.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:30:26 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] oilcloth Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:30:21 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <003001c3def1$66ccfaa0$805183d1@rmitchellras> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out012.verizon.net from [162.83.114.185] at Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:30:25 -0600 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So were proper pommel slickers, which were the coats worn by American cowboys (As opposed to those outback coats so often worn now). Pommel slickers were and are large oilskin coats worn over real clothes (they provide no warmth) but are large enough to protect the saddle of the horse as well. Mine is new made and it is still made of linseed oil colored with yellow ochre like they were originally. By the way, this is theory, but I suspect that it is due to the pigments added to oilcloth for rain wear in the past that modern rain wear tend towards black or yellow. The same colors that period oilcloth raingear tended to be. Ron Carnegie > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 8:05 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth > > > So'westers were also made of oil cloth. > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cynthia Virtue" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 5:31 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 02:49:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0K7nTO7016866 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 02:49:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K7mo4S001862; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 00:48:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K7mk7g007327; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 00:48:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0K7mi7g007314 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 00:48:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion (213-78-123-231.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.123.231]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ATI91271; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:48:31 GMT Message-ID: <016f01c3df2a$bd953a80$54674ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net><400C5AC2.6040703@thibault.org><010301c3dedf$89fae3a0$54674ed5@pavilion> <002801c3dee3$1793a3c0$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:54:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Mel, what is the fabric called, and do you have any online retail distributors? Waxed fabric, I think, croft mills carry it from time to time, it is very efficient and used is equine circles a lot. Another waterproof fabric croft has at the moment is a MOD Navy wool, I've book about 20m and it is the most waterproof fabric ever you can run at tap over it and it just runs off. Hartleys might be woth a try to. Both their websites are very poor but you can email them! Good luck, if they are no good there are some other possible sources let me know Croft E-mail Address(es): info@croftmill.co.uk Hartleys E-mail Address(es): sales@hartleysmailorder.co.uk (this gives herbal products but it is the right address !) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 09:06:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KE6wO7019960 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:06:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KE6H4S014638; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:06:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KE6B7g035354; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:06:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KE697g035331 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:06:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formo@lynchburg.edu) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:06:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1D343D1FCF315A4BAF27482263DDD45E4F055D@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloaks and hoods question Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:06:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks everyone for the info! I'll probably go with the liri-pipe style hood. I've been thinking about also doing one to attach to my fencing mask instead of wearing a seperate hood under the mask. Looks like I'll finish one for my cloak as a first try and maybe eventually get one attached to my mask as well. Thanks again for the quick responses. Hopefully in a month or so when I get it finished I can post pics. Bjorn Arnaldsson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 09:26:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KEQmO7020319 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:26:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KEQB4S015373; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:26:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KEQ97g043381; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:26:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (msg.ureach.com [63.236.74.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KEQ87g043366 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:26:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-217-45-70.asm.bellsouth.net [68.217.45.70]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i0KEFduo010999 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:15:40 -0500 Message-ID: <012e01c3df5f$e1a0e110$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <03f001c3deee$c63c01f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] La Mode Bagatelle Regency pattern - experiences? Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:15:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Did you take your measurements wearing your undergarments and compare them to the pattern... not the chart, but the actual pieces? That is what I do before making my muslin. I never pay attention to the size chart or the size. ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.Thurman" To: Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 7:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] La Mode Bagatelle Regency pattern - experiences? > Has anyone on the list ever worked with the La Mode Bagatelle Regency > wardrobe pattern? I am currently using this for the first time and am having > some real frustrations with it! > > I am fitting it over the Mantua Maker 1800-1820 stays, which fit perfectly > and create the correct "pushed up" silhouette, but this pattern seems to be > designed to be worn with modern undergarments. I say this because the front > of the dress plunges *extremely* low - 3" or more below the top edge of my > stays. I've had to take it up around 3" of the front strap and 1 1/2" in the > back just to make the neckline fall correctly. > > Also, where is the back waist supposed to fall during this time period? The > adjustments I made place the back waist just about even with my shoulder > blades - I know waistlines are high, but *that* high? It's also rather > baggy, yet taking up the straps has made the armseyes extremely tight. Am I > not placing the shoulder seam correctly? > > Also, does this pattern run large or small? I cut for a size 12, but the way > it is fitting I'm suspecting I need a size 10 in the back and a size 6 in > the front to make it look like the pattern envelope! > > Sorry to pummel with so many questions, but I feel like I am short of time > and money - I cannot go out and get another company's pattern, so I must > make La Mode Bagatelle work. Any suggestions anyone can offer will be > appreciated beyond belief!! > > Thanks in advance, > > Allison T. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 09:30:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KEUeO7020349 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:30:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KEU34S015520; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KEU27g045076; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:30:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (msg.ureach.com [63.236.74.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KEU27g045068 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:30:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-217-45-70.asm.bellsouth.net [68.217.45.70]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i0KEIfNf021836 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:18:41 -0500 Message-ID: <013501c3df60$4e0b3e40$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040120013703.39563.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> <400C8C15.6050404@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image Re-Search - Anyone know who where when this guyis from? Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:18:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am almost certain it is Phillip ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image Re-Search - Anyone know who where when this guyis from? > Lil Sorepaws wrote: > > I'm driving myself nuts > > trying to find this info based only on the picture and the fact that the > > character in it is italian and probably from the early 1600's ... I hope > > someone can help .. the image can be found at : > > > > http://www.cranky-kitty.com/guyfie.jpg > > That is almost certainly the Duke of Burgundy, circa 1450, maybe a bit > later. Not sure exactly which Duke, though. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 10:43:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KFhOO7020735 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:43:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KFWY4S018971; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:32:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KFWV7g076040; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:32:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KFWQ7h075999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:32:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net (acty1010.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.10]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i0KFQnKv026637 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:26:51 -0500 Message-ID: <400D48B5.10805@dandy.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:26:45 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] oilcloth References: <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> In-Reply-To: <000501c3ded3$24cebc60$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. I believe the company Panther Primitives sells oilcloth. At least I remember seeing it in (I think) their shop at Pennsic. I am sure they are online. BTW, I have never made oilcloth, but I have made waxed cloth using beeswax. The sailors on the Maryland Dove, a ship at Historic St. Maries Citty, have a shirt that is waxed that they use for inclement weather. I don't know where they got the idea, and even if it is proper. I use mine for panes in a few lanterns I made to the specs from lanterns found on a Spanish 16th Cent. shipwreck. They are noted on the ship's. manifest as having panes made of waxed linen. I also use circles of waxed linen to cover our food containers out in the field so that dirt and vermin don't get in them. Cheers, Mike T. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 10:46:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KFkGO7020744 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:46:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KFjH4S019945; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KFjE7g083884; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:45:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KFjC7g083844 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:45:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (syr-24-58-121-78.twcny.rr.com [24.58.121.78]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i0KFj9h3004246 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:45:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040120104414.00bc7698@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:45:36 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image Re-Search - Anyone know who where when this guy is from? In-Reply-To: <20040120013703.39563.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200401200055.i0K0sp7i037278@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Lil... not Italian, Burgundian. Phillip the Good, approximately 1430. Look for him in Flemish art sources. This is from a picture with a man presenting a book to the Good Duke, his sponsonr. Bridgette >Hi .. Pardon the slightly offtopic post (I am rarely de-lurking) but I >need to get some information about a picture that one of my housemates >gave me .. basically we will be making another housemate the garb but the >picture is very hard to see from and I was hoping that either someone out >there had a source for a more clear/bigger copy of the image or could tell >me what kind of hat/boots and jewelry the guy was wearing and maybe point >out a good place to find similar items pictures. I'm driving myself nuts >trying to find this info based only on the picture and the fact that the >character in it is italian and probably from the early 1600's ... I hope >someone can help .. the image can be found at : > >http://www.cranky-kitty.com/guyfie.jpg > >Many thanks in advance ~~~~ > >- Lil (the lost and confused one again ;) >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 10:56:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KFuXO7020782 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:56:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KFtp4S021006; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:55:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KFtn7g091049; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:55:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KFtj7g091015 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:55:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0KEtuK29162 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:55:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from user-2inikhd.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.82.45] helo=[165.121.84.213]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AixIJ-0008IB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:55:56 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200401201430.i0KEUE7i045187@net.indra.com> References: <200401201430.i0KEUE7i045187@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:55:45 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: oil cloth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:30 AM -0700 1/20/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >So you know...modern oilcloth is the stuff they make tablecloths from. I >> would think simply treating some canvas with linseed will be fine. It gets >> translucent when you do this. I've only done it once myself to treat a >> canvas floor cloth. Hi It works like a charm, just PLEASE do this outside and keep the cloth spread out till it drys and only do a thin coat at a time! Otherwise you really do risk spontaneous combustion! If you do about 3-5 coats it is still sorta flexable and has a neat shine to it. Ta Carol -- Jan 7 1792: Farenheit's thermometer 23 degrees below.I rub silk gowns with flannel to see the beautiful streams of fire which are emitted with a crackling noise during the cold weather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 11:51:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KGplO7021006 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:51:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KGor4S025801; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KGon7g028505; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:50:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tin.wightman.on.ca (tin.wightman.ca [216.249.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KGol7g028471 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:50:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by tin.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ACDC339BC; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:32:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by tin.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C90B339B4; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:32:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004201c3df73$0f8df320$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200401201430.i0KEUE7h045187@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:31:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: La Mode Bagatelle Regency pattern - experiences? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I use this pattern all the time and love it. Sorry to hear you're having difficulty. Some observations: I say this because the front > of the dress plunges *extremely* low - 3" or more below the top edge of my > stays. I've had to take it up around 3" of the front strap and 1 1/2" in the > back just to make the neckline fall correctly. Hhhhmm, my first thought is perhaps you've made your corset too high? The top of the corset should fit just over the nipple, essentially creating two half cups. The front of the gown in indeed cut low, as was done historically and should sit above the nipple about two to three inches, depending on your size, so there is quite a bit of decoltage. For day wear the dresses were worn either with a chemisette or a fichu. For evening, well, yes, one displays what nature gave you. You might want to check out the some of the Regency fashion pages as this gives you an excellent idea of how low some of these bodices sat. > Also, where is the back waist supposed to fall during this time period? The > adjustments I made place the back waist just about even with my shoulder > blades - I know waistlines are high, but *that* high? High indeed. The back waistline should actually cut across the shoulder blades, not even or below. It's also rather > baggy, yet taking up the straps has made the armseyes extremely tight. Am I > not placing the shoulder seam correctly? The armsceye historically is very tight and should fit right up under your arm, not as we tend to wear our sleeves today. Baggy? Where, exactly? I don't quite get that part, my apologies. The shoulder seam should fall to the back in a diagonal, about three inches below the top of the shoulder, depending on your size. The seams at the back of the bodice should create that classic clawfoot back. The side seams, unless you're making the larger sizes as I would wear, in fact wraps around to the back, and is not a modern side seam that falls under the arm. > Also, does this pattern run large or small? The pattern actually tends to run large. Did you do a muslin first of the bodice? Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 14:10:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KJAVSd021678 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:10:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KJ9g4S008915; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:09:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KJ9T7g029680; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:09:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9403.mail.yahoo.com (web9403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0KJ9R7g029645 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:09:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040120190245.73334.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:02:45 PST Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:02:45 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] want to get back on list X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I set my options to 'no mail' from the H-costumers' list when I left town--would love to get back on-- and receive them again--but am having trouble--please help-- many thanks-- Albra --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 17:41:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KMfkSd022433 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:41:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KMd74S029869; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:39:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KMcx7g076615; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KMcs7g076525 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:38:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.16.3a654056 (3850) for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:33:35 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <16.3a654056.2d3f06bf@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:33:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Civil War Ballgown Patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just got my first commission for a Civil War ensemble: everything from the chemise out, except stockings and shoes (whee!), from a friend of mine. She'd like me to use Simplicity pattern 5724 (picture here: http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5724/5724.jpg ). Now, I'm not really a Civil war person, myself. At least, not in terms of historical accuracy. So I'm not entirely sure how accurate this is! Part of me would like to say "Well, as long as she has fun, likes it, and pays me!", but I would like to know if it's a complete and utter fantasy. I've seen "historical" patterns (like from longago.com) with a similar skirt- the petal style, but lacking all those ruffles. I've also pretty much refused to sew those huge flower things (and she wants it in blue silk taffeta-ish stuff, anyhow, so red roses wouldn't look so great). I'll be making the entire ensemble, and at the moment they're from Simplicity patterns. If these are inaccurate, I'll tell her and we'll consider a change, depending on whether they're completely off-base or just a little off (if all I have to do is draft out, say, a center front seam or a dart, I'll just draft it out). So, what patterns I'm using: 5724 (gown, see above link) 9764 (hoopskirt and petticoat): http://www.simplicity.com/assets/9764/9764.jpg 9769 (corset, chemise, drawers): http://www.simplicity.com/assets/9769/9769.jpg Also, if anyone has actually used 5724 before...the gown calls for sixteen yards (!) of fabric. Is that much actually necessary for the pattern? To my untrained eye, it seems just a tiny, tiny bit excessive! Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 18:09:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KN99Sd022510 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:09:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KN7t4S002140; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:07:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KN7r7g095632; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:07:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav18.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KN7a7g095364 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:07:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:50:13 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav18.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:50:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" , References: <20040120190245.73334.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] want to get back on list Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:50:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jan 2004 22:50:13.0833 (UTC) FILETIME=[C40E9B90:01C3DFA7] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Go to this address http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Go to last box at the bottom of the page (Unsubscribe or edit options), enter your email address and click on the button. On the next page, enter your password, and click on the button. Find the Mail Delivery options and modify to your convenience. ----- Original Message ----- From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:02 PM Subject: [h-cost] want to get back on list > I set my options to 'no mail' from the H-costumers' list when I left town--would love to get back on-- and receive them again--but am having trouble--please help-- > many thanks-- > Albra > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 18:20:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KNK9Sd022519 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:20:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KNJU4S003227; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:19:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KNJQ7g003533; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:19:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KNJI7g003386 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:19:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05CD642615 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:29:48 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <400DB80E.7000604@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:21:50 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil War Ballgown Patterns References: <16.3a654056.2d3f06bf@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <16.3a654056.2d3f06bf@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > I just got my first commission for a Civil War ensemble: everything from the > chemise out, except stockings and shoes (whee!), from a friend of mine. She'd > like me to use Simplicity pattern 5724 (picture here: > http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5724/5724.jpg ). Now, I'm not really a Civil war person, myself. > At least, not in terms of historical accuracy. So I'm not entirely sure how > accurate this is! I've been looking at photographs recently and I have to say *I* have never seen a dress like that. However, here's a reviewer who claims it "is supported by primary-source material". She just doesn't say where. Warning, this is a huge PDF file. http://www.elizabethstewartclarkandcompany.com/SA/SA3/SA3.5/SA3.5.3/Simplicity%20Pattern%20Review.pdf You can view an HTML (faster loading) version here: http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:0YyBsf54CMgJ:www.elizabethstewartclarkandcompany.com/SA/SA3/SA3.5/SA3.5.3/Simplicity%2520Pattern%2520Review.pdf+simplicity+5724&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 18:21:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KNLoSd022528 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:21:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KNL74S003339; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:21:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KNL57g004674; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:21:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KNL27g004575 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:21:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.d8.19ed0ee (4584) for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:15:43 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:15:43 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil War Ballgown Patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0KNLoSd022528 Status: RO In a message dated 1/20/2004 5:41:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, IceGirlNIN@aol.com writes: > Simplicity pattern 5724 Well...I can't like everything everyone else does I guess..... But it's not accurate. You can make the "same" gown accurately, however. If the bodice is cut correctly [double darted in front for instance] and too the skirt and overskirt [more often than not straight panels sewn selvage to selvage and pleated into the waist] This is also a ball gown. Is she going to a ball? Because she sure wouldn't wear such an outfit anywhere else....[maybe the opera.] To me the secret of this period is not to load that big blank "canvas" of a skirt with too much stuff. You want people to focus on the person's face and shoulder area, not be looking at her from the waist down all night. Keep the interest on the bodice and décolletage and let the skirt play second fiddle. If the fabric is stunning, a plain skirt of 4 to 5 yard fullness over a hoop [especially of the shape of the mid to late 60s with the elongated back] is spectacular enough. There are a ka-zillion photos from this period. Take a look at those...not fashion plates from magazines. Notice how most gowns are toned down from the fashion plate ideal. Notice all the plain skirts. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 18:41:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KNfQSd022610 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:41:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KNej4S004939; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:40:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KNeh7g016836; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:40:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback-mx3.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@fallback-mx3.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KNee7g016806 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:40:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from mail2.atl.registeredsite.com (mail2.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.76]) by fallback-mx3.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0KN6VME003636 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:06:31 -0500 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail2.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0KN60e6030494 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:06:01 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.34.246]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:05:57 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:05:48 -0500 Message-ID: <041901c3dfa9$f27f4540$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: La Mode Bagatelle Regency questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Message: 4 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:31:45 -0500 From: "Five Rivers" Subject: [h-cost] Re: La Mode Bagatelle Regency pattern - experiences? To: Message-ID: <004201c3df73$0f8df320$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You wrote: Hhhhmm, my first thought is perhaps you've made your corset too high? The top of the corset should fit just over the nipple, essentially creating two half cups. The front of the gown in indeed cut low, as was done historically and should sit above the nipple about two to three inches, depending on your size, so there is quite a bit of decoltage. For day wear the dresses were worn either with a chemisette or a fichu. For evening, well, yes, one displays what nature gave you. You might want to check out the some of the Regency fashion pages as this gives you an excellent idea of how low some of these bodices sat. ** I did take a look through "Fashion in Detail", and you are right, they do fit awfully low! My corset does fit as "half cups" the way you describe, but I might not have shoved it downwards over my hips as much as I should have when fitting the muslin - it does make you feel quite exposed if you're not used to it! ** High indeed. The back waistline should actually cut across the shoulder blades, not even or below. > Also, does this pattern run large or small? The pattern actually tends to run large. Did you do a muslin first of the bodice? **I was definitely working on a muslin, and in answer to Teena's question - no, I went by the sizes listed for my measurements on the pattern envelope! Given both of your descriptions, it seems obvious to me that I cut the wrong size. I am going to try what you suggest, Teena, and compare the pattern piece measurements to my own, and will most likely try again at a smaller size! ** Thank you both, very sincerely, for your prompt attention to my questions! The assembly does seem like it will go quickly (crosses fingers), if I can just get the fit right! Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org ** Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 18:56:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0KNukSd022677 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:56:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KNuB4S006131; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:56:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0KNu97g026147; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:56:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0KNu67g026128 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:56:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040120234926.53580.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:49:26 PST Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:49:26 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] want to get back on list To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Seems I'm already back:) thanks mucho, everyone! Albra Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: Go to this address http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Go to last box at the bottom of the page (Unsubscribe or edit options), enter your email address and click on the button. On the next page, enter your password, and click on the button. Find the Mail Delivery options and modify to your convenience. ----- Original Message ----- From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:02 PM Subject: [h-cost] want to get back on list > I set my options to 'no mail' from the H-costumers' list when I left town--would love to get back on-- and receive them again--but am having trouble--please help-- > many thanks-- > Albra > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 20:29:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0L1TtSd023279 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:29:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L1T64S012479; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:29:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L1T37g074171; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:29:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out008.verizon.net (out008pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L1T17g074148 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:29:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebarefoot.contessa@verizon.net) Received: from computer ([141.150.37.72]) by out008.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040120221357.LXCZ10003.out008.verizon.net@computer> for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:13:57 -0600 Message-ID: <001b01c3dfab$90180200$4825968d@computer> From: "EIW" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401201430.i0KEUE7h045187@net.indra.com> <004201c3df73$0f8df320$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: La Mode Bagatelle Regency pattern - experiences? Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:17:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out008.verizon.net from [141.150.37.72] at Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:13:56 -0600 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, thanks for that informational post. I'm in the middle of making my LMB Regency dress, and all you mentioned is exactly what I did do and how the dress actually came out. I'm glad I got it right. Also, for the neck line, I just added ribbon on the inside and pulled it up a bit. Though I am not finished with the project you can find it in my dress diaries. http://elizabethsartofdress.com It's called my Josephine dress. I also made Stays as well. Elizabeth PS I'm actually going to print this post and put it in my pattern envelope. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Five Rivers" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:31 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: La Mode Bagatelle Regency pattern - experiences? > I use this pattern all the time and love it. Sorry to hear you're having > difficulty. Some observations: > > I say this because the front > > of the dress plunges *extremely* low - 3" or more below the top edge of my > > stays. I've had to take it up around 3" of the front strap and 1 1/2" in > the > > back just to make the neckline fall correctly. > > Hhhhmm, my first thought is perhaps you've made your corset too high? > The top of the corset should fit just over the nipple, essentially creating > two half cups. The front of the gown in indeed cut low, as was done > historically and should sit above the nipple about two to three inches, > depending on your size, so there is quite a bit of decoltage. For day wear > the dresses were worn either with a chemisette or a fichu. For evening, > well, yes, one displays what nature gave you. You might want to check out > the some of the Regency fashion pages as this gives you an excellent idea of > how low some of these bodices sat. > > > Also, where is the back waist supposed to fall during this time period? > The > > adjustments I made place the back waist just about even with my shoulder > > blades - I know waistlines are high, but *that* high? > > High indeed. The back waistline should actually cut across the shoulder > blades, not even or below. > > It's also rather > > baggy, yet taking up the straps has made the armseyes extremely tight. Am > I > > not placing the shoulder seam correctly? > > The armsceye historically is very tight and should fit right up under > your arm, not as we tend to wear our sleeves today. Baggy? Where, exactly? I > don't quite get that part, my apologies. The shoulder seam should fall to > the back in a diagonal, about three inches below the top of the shoulder, > depending on your size. The seams at the back of the bodice should create > that classic clawfoot back. The side seams, unless you're making the larger > sizes as I would wear, in fact wraps around to the back, and is not a modern > side seam that falls under the arm. > > > Also, does this pattern run large or small? > > The pattern actually tends to run large. Did you do a muslin first of > the bodice? > > Regards > Lorina > Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage > fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery > supplies > (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 21:55:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0L2thSd023438 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:55:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L2t54S016934; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:55:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L2sx7g010439; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:54:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L2sv7g010397 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:54:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (v93.12) with ESMTP id RELAYIN4-5400de88e46; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:48:46 -0500 Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.4e.26c80e18 (3988) for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:43:33 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <4e.26c80e18.2d3f4154@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:43:32 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: La Mode Bagatelle Regency questions To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My only experience with this pattern does not concern the fit of the bodice, but rather the skirt. I think it has 2 more gores than is necessary. I use the Cut of Women's Clothes skirt that is 72" in circumference, and it gives a great period look. So I would recommend you use that skirt instead of the one in the pattern. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 22:08:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0L38kSd023489 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:08:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L38A4S017596; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:08:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L3897g015839; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:08:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L3877g015831 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:08:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kerowyn@mindspring.com) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0L1Eud26914 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:14:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from dialup-171.75.230.151.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.230.151] helo=Dan) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Aj6xK-0002Db-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:14:55 -0500 Message-ID: <007a01c3dfbc$414e44c0$97e64bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:16:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] CC-22 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0L38kSd023489 Status: RO Has any thought been given to doing the red H on the badges at CC-22? It was so great to put faces on names at CC-21 last year. And, I got to meet Teddy, and Margo, and Stevie, and, and. Snow fallen on snow, and this evening, the full moon of November Basho _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 22:19:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0L3JJSd023518 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:19:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L3Ih4S018181; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:18:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L3Ie7g020120; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:18:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L3Id7g020104 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:18:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRT00HIAIF11H@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:18:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:12:39 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Digitzing Pads for Embroidery Machines In-reply-to: <155.2bb5c510.2d3d86a0@aol.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040120180734.028e7eb0@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:14 PM 1/19/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings All - > >I am sorry that this is bit a off topic. But i know there are quite a few >people out there who use Embroidery Machines. And, I was wondering if anyone >out there used a digitizing pad instead of a mouse when working with their >Digitizing Software. I am trying to decide if I want to spend the money >to buy >one, but nobody (including Brother, I am using PE-Design) knows if it will >work. > >Kit Hi Kit, See if you can borrow someone digital pad to find out. My pad works with most of my Windows programs, and the stylus basically acts as a mouse. Some of my programs, like Photoshop and Illustrator have special functions that are accessible with the pad/stylus. Otherwise, it is just like a mouse, with left and right click functions. Wacom makes the best pads (and integrate with the computer the best), and they have a little one that also comes with a mouse that my friend really likes. I bought a larger one because I wanted more room for my graphic work. I love it for graphic work because it saves my wrists from the strain, and it feels just like I am working with a pen or pencil. You do have to practice with it for a bit before you get used to how it works, but it is worth taking the time to play. Good luck, and let me know if it does work for you, as I am hoping to get an embroidery program someday. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 20 23:30:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0L4UJSd023696 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:30:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L4Qt4S021642; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:26:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L4Qp7g051015; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:26:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback-mx1.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@fallback-mx1.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L4Qn7g050978 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:26:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from mail7.atl.registeredsite.com (mail7.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.81]) by fallback-mx1.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0L2jW0v022291 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:45:32 -0500 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail7.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0L2jTLO014413 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:45:31 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.34.246]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:45:22 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:45:10 -0500 Message-ID: <042401c3dfc8$978820c0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] La Mode Bagatelle Regency - results X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just wanted y'all to know, I took y'all's advice re: applying my own measurements to the pattern before choosing a size. It turns out that my best fitting muslin is a size 8 (!) for this pattern - it really is very oversized as I'm usually a US 8-10 in ready to wear! But thanks to y'all's advice it's now sitting where it ought and I feel like I can proceed. Thanks! Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 00:03:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0L53cSd023732 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:03:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L52S4S023176; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:02:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L52Q7g065452; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:02:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0L52P7g065406 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:02:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a29.in-tch.com [66.62.107.9]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0L4eEN19081 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:40:14 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <400E088D.7000908@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:05:17 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image Re-Search - Anyone know who where when this guy is from? References: <20040120013703.39563.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> <400C8C15.6050404@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <400C8C15.6050404@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Charles, maybe? At least, that was my first thought... --sue Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Lil Sorepaws wrote: > >> I'm driving myself nuts >> trying to find this info based only on the picture and the fact that the >> character in it is italian and probably from the early 1600's ... I hope >> someone can help .. the image can be found at : >> >> http://www.cranky-kitty.com/guyfie.jpg > > > That is almost certainly the Duke of Burgundy, circa 1450, maybe a bit > later. Not sure exactly which Duke, though. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 05:47:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0LAlYSd018348 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 05:47:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LAiK4S005019; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:44:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LAiF7g085472; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:44:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LAiD7g085463 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:44:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Camelothorse@earthlink.net) Received: from badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.20]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AjCl2-0001KA-00 for H-costume@indra.com; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:26:36 -0800 Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0L0dKO00417 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:39:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-67.74.132.249.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([67.74.132.249] helo=diane) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Aj6Or-00056J-00 for H-costume@indra.com; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:39:19 -0800 Message-ID: <0a7101c3dfb7$00f9dc90$e8844a43@diane> From: "Diane Maynard" To: "H-costume" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:39:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] civil war ball gown patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0LAlYSd018348 Status: RO I made a brief post about this gown earlier but, not being any where near an expert on this era nor as knowledgeable as others on this list, upon reading everyone else's comments, now feel great about the changes I made to this gown pattern for my own dress last Saturday night. First of all, I made the dress in a green, navy blue, black plaid taffeta. I kept the line and neckline of the bodice pattern but left off the pleated bertha. Thirty-eight eyelet holes for lacing up the back of the bodice. For the skirt, I made a very simple five yard skirt with a pleated waistband----no ruffles. ( I felt that the plaid taffeta was enough decoration without getting too busy with ruffles.) I did the full underpinnings---chemise, drawers, white stockings and corset. My grandmother's broach on the neckline, simple black dangle earrings, again my Grandmother's crystal cameo and gold clamp bracelet and, off white crocheted gloves. It was a little nippy and for a wrap, I wore a vintage dark beaver fur cape that had a small white mink collar. There were some exceptionally beautiful gowns there and all of them ( I felt ) more gorgeous and elaborate than mine. This was my first attempt at a Civil War piece and I was truly shocked and flattered when my little gown won first place. Hopefully, the pictures will come out and I will be able to post some of them. Diane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 05:54:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0LAsOSd018374 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 05:54:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LAri4S005302; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:53:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LArh7g088766; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:53:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LArg7g088752 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:53:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Camelothorse@earthlink.net) Received: from badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.20]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AjCn5-00054x-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:28:43 -0800 Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0KN8VO09744 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:08:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-67.74.132.249.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([67.74.132.249] helo=diane) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Aj4yw-00079m-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:08:26 -0800 Message-ID: <0a5601c3dfaa$4f85a9a0$e8844a43@diane> From: "Diane Maynard" To: "Historical Costume" References: <16.3a654056.2d3f06bf@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil War Ballgown Patterns Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:08:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Delurking briefly to give you my personal experience--- I do not know about the accuracy of the gown but, I just made a modified version of this for a ball last Saturday night. BTW---I got rave reviews from everyone there and won the costume contest but, that is not what I am writing about. Has your friend ever had to wear a gown with this particular neck line ? If not, she needs to go to a bridal shop and try this neck line on in a bridal gown before you make this for her. I have NEVER ---and I mean---- NEVER --- felt so helpless and claustrophobic in my life ! -- AND, I am used to wearing corsets with my Elizabethans BUT,----this gown's neckline TOTALLY locks your arms down. It took me quite a while to decide that I was going to be OK and get over my panic attack. One really needs to try this neckline on and understand the limited range of motion you have with your arms before thinking that you would spend an entire evening wearing it. I also left off the flowers. I had made the gown in plaid taffeta and I used my Grandmother's broach on the front of the neckline of the gown as the only ornamentation. I also made my underpinnings from the Simplicity pattern and had no problems other than, do not expect the normal "ease" to be there as in their mundane clothes patterns. It does run more accurate to what they claim the measurements are. Oh---and I also made the corset with a full linen lining which they do not call for. Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:33 PM Subject: [h-cost] Civil War Ballgown Patterns > I just got my first commission for a Civil War ensemble: everything from the > chemise out, except stockings and shoes (whee!), from a friend of mine. She'd > like me to use Simplicity pattern 5724 (picture here: > http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5724/5724.jpg ). Now, I'm not really a Civil war person, myself. > At least, not in terms of historical accuracy. So I'm not entirely sure how > accurate this is! Part of me would like to say "Well, as long as she has fun, > likes it, and pays me!", but I would like to know if it's a complete and utter > fantasy. I've seen "historical" patterns (like from longago.com) with a > similar skirt- the petal style, but lacking all those ruffles. I've also pretty > much refused to sew those huge flower things (and she wants it in blue silk > taffeta-ish stuff, anyhow, so red roses wouldn't look so great). > > I'll be making the entire ensemble, and at the moment they're from Simplicity > patterns. If these are inaccurate, I'll tell her and we'll consider a > change, depending on whether they're completely off-base or just a little off (if > all I have to do is draft out, say, a center front seam or a dart, I'll just > draft it out). So, what patterns I'm using: > 5724 (gown, see above link) > 9764 (hoopskirt and petticoat): > http://www.simplicity.com/assets/9764/9764.jpg > 9769 (corset, chemise, drawers): > http://www.simplicity.com/assets/9769/9769.jpg > > Also, if anyone has actually used 5724 before...the gown calls for sixteen > yards (!) of fabric. Is that much actually necessary for the pattern? To my > untrained eye, it seems just a tiny, tiny bit excessive! > > Christine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 09:43:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0LEh7Sd018911 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:43:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LEgP4S013210; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:42:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LEgK7g070986; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:42:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (msg.ureach.com [63.236.74.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LEgI7g070968 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:42:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-217-45-70.asm.bellsouth.net [68.217.45.70]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i0LEgHhl012508 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:42:17 -0500 Message-ID: <00ad01c3e02c$c3dcdbc0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <041901c3dfa9$f27f4540$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: La Mode Bagatelle Regency questions Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:42:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good luck... Regency is one of my favorite periods! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 10:10:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0LFA6Sd019057 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:10:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LF9P4S014826; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:09:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LF9O7g084642; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:09:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LF9M7g084620 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:09:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Camelothorse@earthlink.net) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0LEO6921507 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 06:24:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-67.74.131.245.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([67.74.131.245] helo=diane) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AjJH0-0006b1-00 for H-costume@indra.com; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 06:24:04 -0800 Message-ID: <0be601c3e02a$3a829330$e8844a43@diane> From: "Diane Maynard" To: "H-costume" Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:24:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] testing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0LFA6Sd019057 Status: RO I normally lurk but, had actually tried to reply to a couple of posts yesterday and my posts never came through. Just wondering what happened. Diane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 10:16:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0LFGFSd019070 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:16:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LFFc4S015347; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:15:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LFFa7g087844; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:15:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ureach.com (msg.ureach.com [63.236.74.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LFFZ7g087835 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:15:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bkessinger@ureach.com) Received: from TEENADESKTOP (adsl-217-45-70.asm.bellsouth.net [68.217.45.70]) by ureach.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i0LFFYhl007125 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:15:34 -0500 Message-ID: <00c201c3e031$6a5f5dc0$240110ac@TEENADESKTOP> From: "Teena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007a01c3dfbc$414e44c0$97e64bab@Dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] CC-22 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:15:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh my... that is fast approaching isn't it? Ack! I need to make more garb! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:16 PM Subject: [h-cost] CC-22 > Has any thought been given to doing the red H on the badges at CC-22? It was so great to put faces on names at CC-21 last year. And, I got to meet Teddy, and Margo, and Stevie, and, and. > > > Snow fallen on snow, > and this evening, the full moon of November > Basho > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 11:39:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0LGd8Sd019379 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:39:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LGcO4S023409; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:38:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LGcL7g041022; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:38:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LGcE7g040914 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:38:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f27.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.39]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6BCA05EE307 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:23:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005401c3e032$84a68cc0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:23:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] mans 18th century cloak X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0LGd8Sd019379 Status: RO Hello, I just wanted to ask if any of you have found out more than me about mens cloaks. 1760- 1780 I am going to a spring feast in Stockholm on march 13th. This time of year, it still is rather cold in Scandinavia so i thoaght about making myself a gentlemans cloak. There is a pattern i have from Colonial Williamsburg. It is red with no linning. My question is, that i wanted to line my cloak. I was thinking about making the cloak in black wool, and then line it with red velvet. It must have ben ok to line a cloak here in Scandinavia where it gets rather cold some times. Has any of you come up with cloaks being lined? I would like to hear what you think. Thanks in advance Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 11:47:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0LGlZSd019400 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:47:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LGkt4S024279; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:46:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LGks7g046663; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:46:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.primushost.com (smtp1.primushost.com [209.58.220.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LGko7h046582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:46:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp1.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 1AjIyT-0003MJ-Jt; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:04:53 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 1AjIzq-0000Y6-00; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:06:18 -0500 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:06:18 -0500 (EST) From: Katy Bishop To: Dawn Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil War Ballgown Patterns In-Reply-To: <400DB80E.7000604@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Historical Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The dress is supported by this fashion plate(very long url): http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pview.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehist&CISOPTR=160&CISORESTMP=/search-templates/costume-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/search-templates/costume-view.html&CISOROWS=3&CISOCOLS=5 The skirt is quite similar though the bodice trim is quite different. I think if I were using this pattern I would change the style enough that I wouldn't have to worry about someone else showing up in the same dress. We've got a few ball dress pictures on my website if you need some trim inspiration (I also did a book on 1860 evening dress): www.vintagevictorian.com/costume_1860.html There are 2 dress prints there that are also white with red trim (one English one American). Hope this helps Katy On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Dawn wrote: >IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > >> I just got my first commission for a Civil War ensemble: everything from the >> chemise out, except stockings and shoes (whee!), from a friend of mine. She'd >> like me to use Simplicity pattern 5724 (picture here: > >However, here's a reviewer who claims it "is supported by primary-source >material". She just doesn't say where. Warning, this is a huge PDF file. > >http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:0YyBsf54CMgJ:www.elizabethstewartclarkandcompany.com/SA/SA3/SA3.5/SA3.5.3/Simplicity%2520Pattern%2520Review.pdf+simplicity+5724&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 16:07:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0LL7wSd021024 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:07:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LL754S020971; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:07:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LL6o7g029357; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:06:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web10410.mail.yahoo.com (web10410.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.128.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0LL6l7g029327 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:06:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claudine_on_the_net@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040121210003.31052.qmail@web10410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.17.149.13] by web10410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:00:02 PST Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:00:02 -0800 (PST) From: Claudine Wong To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Movie opinion: "Possession" with Gwyneth Paltrow X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! All this talk about big skirts has made me think of the movie "Possession" which came out in 2002 and starred Gwyneth Paltrow and Jeremy Northam (among others). Have any of you seen this movie? I'm wondering how good the costumes are for the part of the story set in the past (1859). It's been a while since I've seen this movie, but I remember rather liking the dresses worn by the women (but I have no expertise in this time frame). There's also a scene where one woman is very pregnant. Here's a random review: http://www.bluntreview.com/reviews/possession.htm Thanks! Claudine __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 16:18:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0LLIDSd021057 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:18:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LLFj4S021602; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:15:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LLFg7g035426; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:15:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LLFe7g035374 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:15:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AjPRL-000INs-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:59:07 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:20:27 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image Re-Search - Anyone know who where when this guy is from? References: <20040120013703.39563.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> <400C8C15.6050404@thibault.org> <400E088D.7000908@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <400E088D.7000908@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well here's serendipity! He's included in the book of postcards from the exhibition "Illuminating the Renaissance", at the Royal Academy of Arts in London, which I went to last week (more 15th century Flemish, my favourite!) I still don't know which Duke of Burgundy, but you can check that out. The picture is from "Jacques de Guise, Chroniques de Hainaut, translation by Jean Wauquelin of Annales Historiae illustrium principum Hannoniae", 1447-48, biblioteque royale de Belgique, Ms9242, fol 1. Picture by Rogier van der Weyden, of the author presenting the book to the Duke. Jean Sue Clemenger wrote >Charles, maybe? At least, that was my first thought... >--sue > >Cynthia Virtue wrote: >> Lil Sorepaws wrote: >> >>> I'm driving myself nuts >>> trying to find this info based only on the picture and the fact that the >>> character in it is italian and probably from the early 1600's ... I hope >>> someone can help .. the image can be found at : >>> >>> http://www.cranky-kitty.com/guyfie.jpg >> That is almost certainly the Duke of Burgundy, circa 1450, maybe a >>bit later. Not sure exactly which Duke, though. >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 17:11:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0LMBnSd021338 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 17:11:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LMB14S026568; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 15:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LMAx7g074812; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 15:10:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LMAL7g074195 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 15:10:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.1ad.1ecc80ae (30960) for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 17:04:59 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <1ad.1ecc80ae.2d40518b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 17:04:59 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil War Ballgown Patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/21/2004 11:47:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, vintage@shore.net writes: The dress is supported by this fashion plate(very long url): http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pview.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehist& CISOPTR=160&CISORESTMP=/search-templates/costume-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/sea rch-templates/costume-view.html&CISOROWS=3&CISOCOLS=5 Oh my, that's so dead-on it's frightening! (Simplicity actually based the dress on something!) Except of course for the bodice. I will be changing the dress somewhat- no huge red flowers (possibly little white flowers instead), it will be in deep blue, and there may be other changes- the pattern is being mailed to me, and when I get it I'll be able to make suggestions. The wearer and I are also discussing whether I'll be making that hairpiece- no one in their right mind would simply wear their hair down, with that dress. It's simply a matter of whether she has enough hair, and who can fix it for her (I won't be able to, as I'll be about five hours away and at school at that time). AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >if the bodice is cut correctly [double darted in front for instance] and too the >skirt and overskirt [more often than not straight panels sewn selvage to >selvage and pleated into the waist] I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "double darted". I may actually know what the technique is, but I'm not sure of the term (I can, however, do a dart . Though it's not something you see much in Elizabethans!). The skirt is separate from the bodice, but is cartridge pleated to a waistband. Not having seen the actual pattern pieces or instructions, I'm not sure how the skirt is cut. At the moment (plans will be more final once I get a chance to rummage through NYC fabric stores) the idea is that the fabric of the dress itself will be blue silk taffeta, lined, interlined, etc as necessary for the correct drape. Since this person is my friend rather than a stranger, I did do a teensy, tiny bit of bullying to make sure that she understands that natural fibers are best for this project. Especially considering how many layers there are! Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 19:54:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0M0sRSd022340 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 19:54:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M0rm4S010309; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 17:53:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M0rh7g076137; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 17:53:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M0rf7g076122 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 17:53:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-163-195-63.mn.rr.com [24.163.195.63]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0M0KQH7000794 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:20:27 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20040121180736.032b7eb0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:22:22 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] La Mode Bagatelle Regency pattern - experiences? In-Reply-To: <03f001c3deee$c63c01f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, At 07:45 PM 1/19/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone on the list ever worked with the La Mode Bagatelle Regency >wardrobe pattern? I am currently using this for the first time and am having >some real frustrations with it! Frankly I am not surprised. LMBR patterns are very poorly scaled for smaller sizes. >I am fitting it over the Mantua Maker 1800-1820 stays, which fit perfectly >and create the correct "pushed up" silhouette, but this pattern seems to be >designed to be worn with modern undergarments. I say this because the front >of the dress plunges *extremely* low - 3" or more below the top edge of my >stays. I've had to take it up around 3" of the front strap and 1 1/2" in the >back just to make the neckline fall correctly. Excellent stays pattern, the one I used as well. The LMBR pattern is actually designed to be worn with a petticoat with a canvas lined bodice so that you are supported in a way that isn't modern but isn't the same as the stays either. Are you doing the cross over front bodice? If so, it is acceptable to have another fabric as a sort of placard to fill in the deep "v" so that you aren't hanging out. You can see what I did on my attempt at this pattern. http://www.dnaco.net/~drea/newboston/danielle7.jpg >Also, where is the back waist supposed to fall during this time period? The >adjustments I made place the back waist just about even with my shoulder >blades - I know waistlines are high, but *that* high? It's also rather >baggy, yet taking up the straps has made the armseyes extremely tight. Am I >not placing the shoulder seam correctly? The back waistline should be about where your bra-strap fits or slightly higher. I've seen some fashion plates that go up in a "v" at the back. I had a problem with the back being too low, that could have been because I had to do so much fiddling but I'm not sure. Have a look. http://www.dnaco.net/~drea/newboston/danielle4.jpg As for the strap/armscye problem, I think you will just have to fudge it. Take up the strap to where it fits best than cut down the armscye until it is comfortable. Does that help or make sense? >Also, does this pattern run large or small? I cut for a size 12, but the way >it is fitting I'm suspecting I need a size 10 in the back and a size 6 in >the front to make it look like the pattern envelope! I hear that on larger sizes it fits perfectly. On smaller size it runs huge and is poorly scaled. Basically it is useless for anyone using a 12 or under (I don't know about the middle teen sizes). I also made a size 12 once and had to take out at least 4 inches on each back panel and I scrapped the front altogether and winged it. >Sorry to pummel with so many questions, but I feel like I am short of time >and money - I cannot go out and get another company's pattern, so I must >make La Mode Bagatelle work. Any suggestions anyone can offer will be >appreciated beyond belief!! Good luck Allison. It is a difficult thing to fiddle with, it hope it turns out for you. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 22:37:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0M3bGSd022796 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:37:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M3aW4S018445; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:36:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M3aU7g047903; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:36:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M3aS7h047892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:36:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0M3s4Wm011903 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:54:04 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.117] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2DF5CEE004A; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:26:23 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c3e099$9bd8ca40$755183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1ad.1ecc80ae.2d40518b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil War Ballgown Patterns Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:41:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have any of you thought to see the fine archives that Fran Grimbal has included in her book of 'reconstruction era costumes? I was cruising mine this evening on another quest, and was struck with the pertinence of the various alternative treatments for both bodices and skirts for this period(1860s), per the discussion of the last few days. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil War Ballgown Patterns > In a message dated 1/21/2004 11:47:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, > vintage@shore.net writes: > The dress is supported by this fashion plate(very long url): > > http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pview.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehist& > CISOPTR=160&CISORESTMP=/search-templates/costume-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/s ea > rch-templates/costume-view.html&CISOROWS=3&CISOCOLS=5 > > Oh my, that's so dead-on it's frightening! (Simplicity actually based the > dress on something!) Except of course for the bodice. I will be changing the > dress somewhat- no huge red flowers (possibly little white flowers instead), it > will be in deep blue, and there may be other changes- the pattern is being > mailed to me, and when I get it I'll be able to make suggestions. The wearer and > I are also discussing whether I'll be making that hairpiece- no one in their > right mind would simply wear their hair down, with that dress. It's simply a > matter of whether she has enough hair, and who can fix it for her (I won't be > able to, as I'll be about five hours away and at school at that time). > > AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > >if the bodice is cut correctly [double darted in front for instance] and too > the > >skirt and overskirt [more often than not straight panels sewn selvage to > >selvage and pleated into the waist] > > I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "double darted". I may actually know > what the technique is, but I'm not sure of the term (I can, however, do a dart > . Though it's not something you see much in Elizabethans!). The skirt is > separate from the bodice, but is cartridge pleated to a waistband. Not > having seen the actual pattern pieces or instructions, I'm not sure how the skirt > is cut. At the moment (plans will be more final once I get a chance to rummage > through NYC fabric stores) the idea is that the fabric of the dress itself > will be blue silk taffeta, lined, interlined, etc as necessary for the correct > drape. Since this person is my friend rather than a stranger, I did do a > teensy, tiny bit of bullying to make sure that she understands that natural fibers > are best for this project. Especially considering how many layers there are! > > Christine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 21 23:08:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0M48MSd022889 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:08:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M47b4S020341; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 21:07:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M47Y7g060941; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 21:07:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M47W7g060883 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 21:07:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.7b.210db5ef (4552) for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:07:21 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <7b.210db5ef.2d40a678@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:07:20 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil War Ballgown Patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/21/2004 5:11:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, IceGirlNIN@aol.com writes: > I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "double darted". I'm sorry. I realize it's not a "real" term but it's the way we used to refer to the 2 darts you find under each bust in this period. It's THE way to nip in a bodice in the 19th century [there are other ways but this one is very very common and lingers from the 1830s to the 1890s]. Princess lines are seen in ballgowns sometimes in the 1860s so that is OK too. But I like the "double darted" look because it screams 19th century. And look carefully at the skirt in the fashion plate. You can see what look like deep pleats between each scallop of the over skirt. I don't think the Simplicity pattern does that but..... Wait and see what the pattern pieces are like. There's a bulkier, less fussy look to the fashion plate skirt, IMHO. Anyway, with white flowers [orange blossoms are all the rage in this period] and white lace on light blue silk, this design might be much more palpable. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 01:01:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0M61oSd023311 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:01:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M6144S026991; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:01:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M6127g005984; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:01:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M60t7g005912 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:00:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp136.pop1.net [209.102.125.186]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA08692 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:02:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp136.pop1.net [209.102.125.186] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <400F670B.4020804@pcez.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:00:43 -0800 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Linen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings to one and all, Have a few questions about linen: Where is the best place on the web to buy linen? What weight is good for pants and tunics? And is it best to buy bleached linen then dye it or is it best to buy the color you want? And the last question. If you do dye it, is it best to dye it before you sew the garb or after you sew the garb? Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 01:18:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0M6IlSd023333 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:18:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M6I74S027805; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:18:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M6I67g012161; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:18:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0M6I47g012150 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:18:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 17207 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2004 06:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2004 06:11:24 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:11:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1155.24.4.69.40.1074751884.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <400F670B.4020804@pcez.com> References: <400F670B.4020804@pcez.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:11:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Greetings to one and all, > > Have a few questions about linen: > Where is the best place on the web to buy linen? Roscelin, I don't know about the best place to buy but I just started an online business that caters to costumers. I have a couple of really nice pieces including a linen herringbone weave that you may like. The address is www.renaissancefabrics.net > What weight is good for pants and tunics? Medium to heavy for pants and for tunics it depends on the weather that you intend to wear the clothing in. I have a really light-weight tunic for those over 100F days here in California. But a heavier weight would be better for layering and cooler weather. > And is it best to buy bleached linen then dye it or is it best to buy > the color you want? Linen doesn't take dye as well as cotton, wool and silk. So achieving a dark color can be difficult. Usually it is best to buy the linen in the color you want or take an existing color and dye over it to get the color you want. This is a great trick if you find an awful color on the bargain table for a cheap price. Buy it then over-dye it! > And the last question. If you do dye it, is it best to dye it before > you sew the garb or after you sew the garb? I would suggest dyeing before you sew. That way if there is any blotchiness (hopefully not) you can cut around it or use it creatively. -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 01:41:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0M6fwSd023374 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:41:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M6fD4S028761; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:41:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M6fB7g020144; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:41:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpd.ha-net.ptd.net (smtpi.ha-net.ptd.net [207.44.96.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M6fA7g020125 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:41:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mffski@ptd.net) Received: (qmail 13533 invoked by uid 50005); 22 Jan 2004 06:34:29 -0000 Received: from mffski@ptd.net by smtpd.ha-net.ptd.net by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.20 (uvscan: v4.2.40/v4316. spamassassin: 2.60. Clear:RC:1(24.229.37.234):. Processed in 0.371467 secs); 22 Jan 2004 06:34:29 -0000 Received: from bedroom.msns.sm.ptd.net (HELO Bedroom) ([24.229.37.234]) (envelope-sender ) by smtpd.ha-net.ptd.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 22 Jan 2004 06:34:28 -0000 Message-ID: <001b01c3e0b1$c74d21e0$ea25e518@Bedroom> From: "Maryanne" To: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:34:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Linen Sewing Thread X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0M6fwSd023374 Status: RO Does anyone know where to buy linen sewing thread? I need thread that's fairly fine, say 50/3 weight. There was a textile reproduction business in Western Massachusetts where you could buy authentic fabric and notions, including thread. I lost the address, but I think the proprietor was called Kathryn. Any advice would be most gratefully received, Maryanne in Bethlehem, PA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 01:53:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0M6rkSd023394 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:53:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M6r84S029130; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:53:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M6r77g023946; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:53:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav5.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M6r67g023888 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:53:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:35:46 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav5.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:35:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <400F670B.4020804@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:36:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2004 06:35:46.0501 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7A33F50:01C3E0B1] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Where is the best place on the web to buy linen? http://www.fabric.com/ (wonderful service, great items) http://www.fabrics-store.com/ (scrutinize images carefully, their stuff has a tendency to have lots of slubs, but their 3.5 oz linen is fine) > What weight is good for pants and tunics? Light-weight or medium weight. (3.5 oz or 5 oz) > And is it best to buy bleached linen then dye it or is it best to buy > the color you want? It's almost the same price dyed or bleached, so if you're going for outer garments, buy it the color you want. The colors will be brighter and won't fade as much with use. If you're going for under garments, then white and don't dye it. > If you do dye it, is it best to dye it before > you sew the garb or after you sew the garb? I'd say before, because the dye could end up uneven at the seams. But both methods will work and you probably won't see much difference in the end. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 02:27:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0M7RKSd012993 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 02:27:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M7Pp4S000835; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 00:25:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M7Pl7g034739; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 00:25:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M7Pj7g034731 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 00:25:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.132.196]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 019D66ABF7 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:07:01 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:07:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Sewing Thread Message-ID: <400F0618.17892.1B2C6B04@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001b01c3e0b1$c74d21e0$ea25e518@Bedroom> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Does anyone know where to buy linen sewing thread? I need thread > that's fairly fine, say 50/3 weight. There was a textile reproduction > business in Western Massachusetts where you could buy authentic fabric > and notions, including thread. > > I lost the address, but I think the proprietor was called Kathryn. I suspect you're asking about Kathleen B. Smith, Textile Reproductions. Unfortunately, I haven't used them in many years but they were very good. (And I don't have a current address. Hopefully having the correct name will help.) I've gotten very nice indigo dyed linen thread, but it was fairly heavy weight. Have you tried weaving supply stores? I get my linen thread from Robin & Russ Handweavers in McMinnville, Oregon. However, I can't find the address. (I generally just day trip down there or try to hit it when I'm down there for some other reason.) I know they do mail order service. I've not gotten anything but white (bleached probably as it is very white). Even if you get an old address, it will be the right one because they haven't moved in the 19 years I've known about them. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 03:18:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0M8ItSd016850 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 03:18:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M8IF4S002606; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:18:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M8IE7g053645; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:18:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0M8IC7g053630 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:18:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRV00CRMQYAMK@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:18:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:06:42 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen In-reply-to: <400F670B.4020804@pcez.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040121224931.028fa9a8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:00 PM 1/21/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Greetings to one and all, > > Have a few questions about linen: >Where is the best place on the web to buy linen? Hello Roscelin, There are two places I have ventured into buying fabrics online (besides eBay). Your personal mileage may vary. One place I have found that has good linen at decent prices online is http://www.fabrics-store.com . I just started buying from them, and the shipping was quick and the ordering trouble free. You can get some of their linens in a free sample card, so you call see the weights and some of the colors they normally carry in stock. They also have a mailing list you can sign up for that has some interesting tidbits of info on linen and ideas for making things. So far, I am happy with them and plan to order more. I have also found linens at http://www.denverfabrics.com/ . I have only bought silk from them so far, but they seem to have a varied stock of linens in white and colors. You can also order swatches, at a minimal cost. I like their ordering process so far, and they are also fast on shipping. I also plan to order more fabric there. >What weight is good for pants and tunics? Mid to heavy weight, depending on needs and season. >And is it best to buy bleached linen then dye it or is it best to buy the >color you want? I would suggest you buy the color you want, if you want a deep rich color. Linen can crock easily, and it is harder to accept dyes with linen. I have heard of a technique from John Marshall, a fiber artist I had a class with, where you use soy milk to make the dye bond better which prevents the crocking of the dyes, but haven't had the warm weather to try the technique out. I plan on doing this later in the summer when my fiber guild plans to play with indigo. He uses it with silk mainly, but has said it will work on cotton and linens. Wool doesn't need the help. > And the last question. If you do dye it, is it best to dye it before > you sew the garb or after you sew the garb? Before you sew the garb. In fact, you should heavily prewash the linen before you make anything, as it can shrink on you. Then dye the material if you plan on dyeing it, because if there is sizing on the linen, it will prevent the dye from being accepted by the linen. My first time I forgot to do this was the last time, as I have a lovely blue and white cloud fabric. I made a nightshirt from it instead, and remember the lesson well. >Roscelin hth, and good luck. Dyeing can be fun. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 05:50:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MAo8Sd017547 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 05:50:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MAnP4S007891; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 03:49:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MAnK7g001998; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 03:49:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MAnG7g001959 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 03:49:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be2e.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.46]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 90FE9262AA6 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:49:10 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000b01c3e0d5$66884b90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:49:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] gentlemans embroidered waistcoat 1766 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0MAo8Sd017547 Status: RO Hi, Finally i can present to you the left finished side of the embroidered waistcoat after Gustav III's wedding suit. It is embroidered with pipers silk floss and embellished with silver spangels, the smallest you can get. There also are the 2 pocket flaps. It has taken me months to make it. You can notice in the big pictures, that i didnt embroider the places where the button holes are to be. When this is completely finished ( the left pocket flap is not finished) i shall start to make the left jacket piece. This is the one wich is going to be embroidered with silk chenille. I beg you to forgive the bad light in the pictures, but winter in Denmark is very dark. The waistcoat is made of silk duchesse satin. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 06:20:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MBK3Sd017607 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:20:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MBJR4S009398; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 04:19:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MBJP7g012100; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 04:19:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MBJN7g012091 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 04:19:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i0MB5IA11420.; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:05:18 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:02:42 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:02:25 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] gentlemans embroidered waistcoat 1766 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wonderful, Bjarne! Your skill and patience are amazing. >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 22/01/04 10:49:19 >>> Hi, Finally i can present to you the left finished side of the embroidered waistcoat after Gustav III's wedding suit. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 07:40:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MCeWSd017730 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:40:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MCds4S013105; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 05:39:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MCdp7g038790; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 05:39:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com ([12.178.72.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MCdn7g038615 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 05:39:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ceu@equinox.shaysnet.com) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id i0MCbRk5007636; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:37:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:37:24 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: linen source and 'Textile Reproductions' X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all. I recently heard about a source for linen that seems to be very affordable: www.libertylinens.com I'm not sure about the quality and I've never ordered from them (neither did the person I heard about it from), but it seems like it might be worth investigating. The address for Textile Reproductions: Kathleen B. Smith Textile Reproductions Box 48 Chesterfield, MA 01084 (413)296-4437 She sells a catalog as well that's $3.00. I would like to thank the person who started this thread about period textiles in Western Massachusetts! I live in Northampton, MA (about 15 miles away from Chesterfield) and had never heard of anyone around here reproducing textiles. I had begun to despair because this year is Northampton's 350 birthday and though there are celebratory events planned, there don't seem to be any re-enactment things or any other (old) period-based projects planned. Most events so far revolve around famous figures during the last 50 years or so. But now that I know that there's someone in this area doing something 'older', I have hope again! By the way, there are loads of artists/artisans in the hill towns around and including Chesterfield, MA. I don't know how to find a listing for them, but thought I would mention it anyway. I know of one farm in Hawley, MA that specializes in hand dyed fibers (alpaca, mohair, wool, etc) and spins them into wonderful yarns. I think they also weave small amounts (blanket sized pieces) and sell those too. Not exactly costume related, but close enough, I thought. Kate! ceu@shaysnet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 08:03:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MD3vSd017814 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:03:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MD3M4S013933; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:03:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MD3L7g046529; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:03:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com ([12.178.72.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MD3K7g046519 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:03:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ceu@equinox.shaysnet.com) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id i0MD9cSd009490; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:09:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:09:37 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Textile Reproductions correction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ack. I've just realised that it's not 'Chesterfield', but rather 'West Chesterfield'. SOrry about that. Kate! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 08:17:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MDHASd017889 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:17:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MDGQ4S014405; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:16:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MDGO7g050871; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:16:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MDGM7h050853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:16:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0MDY5Wm031104 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:34:05 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.128] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAC79EBC0116; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:06:15 -0500 Message-ID: <002101c3e0ea$9e499f60$805183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <400F0618.17892.1B2C6B04@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Sewing Thread Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:21:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Both Lacis and Hedgehog Works are my first sources. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 2:07 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Sewing Thread > > > Does anyone know where to buy linen sewing thread? I need thread > > that's fairly fine, say 50/3 weight. There was a textile reproduction > > business in Western Massachusetts where you could buy authentic fabric > > and notions, including thread. > > > > I lost the address, but I think the proprietor was called Kathryn. > > I suspect you're asking about Kathleen B. Smith, Textile > Reproductions. Unfortunately, I haven't used them in many years but > they were very good. (And I don't have a current address. Hopefully > having the correct name will help.) I've gotten very nice indigo dyed > linen thread, but it was fairly heavy weight. > > Have you tried weaving supply stores? I get my linen thread from > Robin & Russ Handweavers in McMinnville, Oregon. However, I can't > find the address. (I generally just day trip down there or try to hit > it when I'm down there for some other reason.) I know they do mail > order service. I've not gotten anything but white (bleached probably > as it is very white). Even if you get an old address, it will be the > right one because they haven't moved in the 19 years I've known about > them. > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 08:19:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MDJoSd017935 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:19:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MDJ64S014599; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:19:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MDJ57g051784; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:19:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MDJ47g051749 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:19:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be2e.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.46]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 876FE2629B9 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:19:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002601c3e0ea$543c4170$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001b01c3e0b1$c74d21e0$ea25e518@Bedroom> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Sewing Thread Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:19:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Maryanne, If you look for bobbin lace suppliers, they have a large range of linen threads available. The finest you get these days is 120/2 wich is very fine. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maryanne" To: Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 7:34 AM Subject: [h-cost] Linen Sewing Thread Does anyone know where to buy linen sewing thread? I need thread that's fairly fine, say 50/3 weight. There was a textile reproduction business in Western Massachusetts where you could buy authentic fabric and notions, including thread. I lost the address, but I think the proprietor was called Kathryn. Any advice would be most gratefully received, Maryanne in Bethlehem, PA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 08:52:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MDqFSd018896 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:52:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MDpW4S015727; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:51:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MDpQ7g063253; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:51:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback-mx4.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@fallback-mx4.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MDpE7g063178 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:51:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from mail4.atl.registeredsite.com (mail4.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.78]) by fallback-mx4.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0MD5sxk022497 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:05:54 -0500 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail4.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0ME5rGl012085 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:05:53 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.34.246]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:05:51 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:05:43 -0500 Message-ID: <046901c3e0e8$72c0d360$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: LMBR experiences X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Wrote: Excellent stays pattern, the one I used as well. The LMBR pattern is actually designed to be worn with a petticoat with a canvas lined bodice so that you are supported in a way that isn't modern but isn't the same as the stays either. Are you doing the cross over front bodice? If so, it is acceptable to have another fabric as a sort of placard to fill in the deep "v" so that you aren't hanging out. You can see what I did on my attempt at this pattern. http://www.dnaco.net/~drea/newboston/danielle7.jpg I opted to go with the round neckline because I wasn't sure about filling in that gap, but this is good to know for future reference - I do like the Regency silhouette and assuming I can get this pattern to do what I want I can see myself using it again. Your version turned out VERY well, btw! The back waistline should be about where your bra-strap fits or slightly higher. I've seen some fashion plates that go up in a "v" at the back. I had a problem with the back being too low, that could have been because I had to do so much fiddling but I'm not sure. Have a look. http://www.dnaco.net/~drea/newboston/danielle4.jpg As for the strap/armscye problem, I think you will just have to fudge it. Take up the strap to where it fits best than cut down the armscye until it is comfortable. Does that help or make sense? Does make sense. Right now the size 8 seems to be working, but inset sleeves are a particular bugbear of mine so I was anticipating some tweaking there anyway! >Also, does this pattern run large or small? I cut for a size 12, but the way >it is fitting I'm suspecting I need a size 10 in the back and a size 6 in >the front to make it look like the pattern envelope! I hear that on larger sizes it fits perfectly. On smaller size it runs huge and is poorly scaled. Basically it is useless for anyone using a 12 or under (I don't know about the middle teen sizes). I also made a size 12 once and had to take out at least 4 inches on each back panel and I scrapped the front altogether and winged it. I do remember our discussion right after I got this pattern at Costume Con last year, so I'm not entirely surprised! I'm working on an 8, and not finding it COMPLETELY useless (crosses fingers), but I am keeping yours and others' warnings in mind. I am currently working on a full muslin before I touch the good fabric. I do find it interesting that the skirt pieces seem to be "one size fits all" for sizes 6-22, so I'm also taking Ann Wass's suggestion re: removing skirt gores. >Sorry to pummel with so many questions, but I feel like I am short of time >and money - I cannot go out and get another company's pattern, so I must >make La Mode Bagatelle work. Any suggestions anyone can offer will be >appreciated beyond belief!! Good luck Allison. It is a difficult thing to fiddle with, it hope it turns out for you. Thanks :) I'll let y'all know how this turns out - maybe I'll even get it together enough to post some pictures somewhere! Cheers, Danielle Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 09:09:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0ME9QSd018930 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:09:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ME8h4S016491; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:08:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ME8g7g070083; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:08:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ME8c7g070044 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:08:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18583 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:36:57 -0600 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:36:57 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Sewing Thread In-Reply-To: <002101c3e0ea$9e499f60$805183d1@rmitchellras> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Both Lacis and Hedgehog Works are my first sources. That woujld be Hedgehog Handworks, and I have also been happy with the linen thread I got for them, for my occasional need for handsewing with linen. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 09:59:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MExvSd019120 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:59:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MExF4S019430; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:59:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MExC7g092373; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:59:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0MEx87g092324 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:59:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040122145223.43439.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:52:23 GMT Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:52:23 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil War Ballgown Patterns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1ad.1ecc80ae.2d40518b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm pretty sure Martha researches her patterns. --- IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/21/2004 11:47:38 AM Eastern > Standard Time, > vintage@shore.net writes: > The dress is supported by this fashion plate(very > long url): > > http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pview.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehist& > CISOPTR=160&CISORESTMP=/search-templates/costume-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/sea > rch-templates/costume-view.html&CISOROWS=3&CISOCOLS=5 > > Oh my, that's so dead-on it's frightening! > (Simplicity actually based the > dress on something!) Except of course for the > bodice. I will be changing the > dress somewhat- no huge red flowers (possibly little > white flowers instead), it > will be in deep blue, and there may be other > changes- the pattern is being > mailed to me, and when I get it I'll be able to make > suggestions. The wearer and > I are also discussing whether I'll be making that > hairpiece- no one in their > right mind would simply wear their hair down, with > that dress. It's simply a > matter of whether she has enough hair, and who can > fix it for her (I won't be > able to, as I'll be about five hours away and at > school at that time). > ===== Seńora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 10:09:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MF9BSd019244 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:09:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MF8X4S020041; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:08:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MF8W7g097188; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:08:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14003.mail.yahoo.com (web14003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0MF8T7g097161 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:08:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040122150149.50520.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:01:49 GMT Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:01:49 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movie opinion: "Possession" with Gwyneth Paltrow To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040121210003.31052.qmail@web10410.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The stills on their website don't show much on the dresses, but just from glancing I would say they look ok. There is some blue dress that has odd looking sleeves. --- Claudine Wong wrote: > Hi! > > All this talk about big skirts has made me think of > the movie "Possession" which came out in 2002 and > starred Gwyneth Paltrow and Jeremy Northam (among > others). Have any of you seen this movie? I'm > wondering how good the costumes are for the part of > the story set in the past (1859). It's been a while > since I've seen this movie, but I remember rather > liking the dresses worn by the women (but I have no > expertise in this time frame). There's also a scene > where one woman is very pregnant. > > Here's a random review: > > http://www.bluntreview.com/reviews/possession.htm > > > > Thanks! > Claudine > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" > Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Seńora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 10:12:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MFCxSd019276 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:12:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MFCI4S020302; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:12:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MFCG7g099040; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:12:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MFCC7g098958 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:12:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.19e.1f59b3bd (4196) for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:06:48 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <19e.1f59b3bd.2d414108@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:06:48 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: LMBR experiences To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/22/2004 8:52:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, athurman@cybergal.com writes: I'm also taking Ann Wass's suggestion re: removing skirt gores. I should add that I realize that the circumference of Regency-era skirts could vary, from about 72" to over 100". (Many period examples have the skirt panels cut selvege to selvege, regardless of the width of the fabric, but remember that period fabrics are usually 27-30", with the occasional 36" width, except for wool broadcloth. So I have to cut a strip off my 45" to 60" fabric but can often use that to cut part of the bodice.) I like my 72" circumference, think it gives a good look, it is quick and easy for me to cut, and only takes 2 lengths of fabric. Front and back panels are 18" wide, with the front sides having a curve at the top taking off 1" on each side, almost like the cut of a curved dart. I think this is to solve the problem of the hang over the tummy, which Louisa Pineault solves by raising the front waist slightly. I like my method better because I can actually hem and trim the skirt before I sew it to the bodice. The 2 side gores are straight along the front seam, while the back is gored by cutting the hem 18" but slanting in to 15" at the waist. (This makes this seam a tad longer than the back piece, but I usually fudge that by easing in the extra fullness.) I either pleat or gather the skirt, with the gathers or pleats decreasing towards the front seam, and the front panel is perfectly flat. For a back opening gown, I cut a placket in the center back of that piece. For front opening, I leave the front seam open down both sides for a few inches. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 10:44:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MFiTSd019430 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:44:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MFhm4S022872; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:43:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MFhk7g017423; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:43:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0MFhg7g017393 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:43:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040122153702.97315.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:37:02 PST Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:37:02 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] gentlemans embroidered waistcoat 1766 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000b01c3e0d5$66884b90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's beautiful, Barne-- Albra Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hi, Finally i can present to you the left finished side of the embroidered waistcoat after Gustav III's wedding suit. It is embroidered with pipers silk floss and embellished with silver spangels, the smallest you can get. There also are the 2 pocket flaps. It has taken me months to make it. You can notice in the big pictures, that i didnt embroider the places where the button holes are to be. When this is completely finished ( the left pocket flap is not finished) i shall start to make the left jacket piece. This is the one wich is going to be embroidered with silk chenille. I beg you to forgive the bad light in the pictures, but winter in Denmark is very dark. The waistcoat is made of silk duchesse satin. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 11:12:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MGC5Sd019596 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:12:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MGBA4S025057; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:11:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MGB87g035757; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:11:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com (outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0MGB37g035637 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:11:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from webmail25.nyc.untd.com (webmail25.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.167]) by smtpout03.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAA968VA7HXGFJ for (sender ); Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:01:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCo6QeI0UCDeGiE7tPqng0CJZWGK+H1i/MQ==">; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:00:35 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail25.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JLHT2SSU; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:00:35 PST Received: from [67.73.131.120] by webmail25.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:00:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.73.131.120] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Original-From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:00:31 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] gentlemans embroidered waistcoat 1766 X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: seamstrix@juno.com Message-Id: <20040122.080035.490.1027778@webmail25.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:2:250461624 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, Once again your embroidery is fantastic. The detail that you have put into each blossom really makes the look rich and (dare I say it?) baroque. The project looks like it's going very well. Keep posting your pics to inspire us. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 11:42:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MGg8Sd019783 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:42:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MGfA4S028395; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:41:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MGf67g055905; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:41:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MGf37g055827 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:41:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B6FD42615 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:51:45 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <400FFDCD.9050607@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:43:57 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen References: <400F670B.4020804@pcez.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: >> Where is the best place on the web to buy linen? > > http://www.fabric.com/ (wonderful service, great items) Just a comment: they have great linen and blends, make sure you know which you are buying, but it tends to be seasonal. Right now they are selling the last of the linen at clearance. No, I spoke too soon, the linen is gone but they have some blends left. Looks like the new stock has come in at regular price. > http://www.fabrics-store.com/ (scrutinize images carefully, their stuff has > a tendency to have lots of slubs, but their 3.5 oz linen is fine) These folks have linen year 'round. You can also get it undyed from dharmatrading.com , at a pretty good price if you and a friend are needing a whole bolt. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 11:53:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MGroSd019859 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:53:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MGr14S029521; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MGqu7g064038; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:52:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MGqp7g064015 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:52:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.126]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0MEUE909196 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:30:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from 209-165-34-156.jps.net ([209.165.34.156] helo=pavilion) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AjfqX-0005sT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:30:13 -0800 Message-ID: <001201c3e0f5$81499b80$9c22a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Sewing Thread Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:39:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Or, you can get hand spun linen thread from Claire Moore. Not that one could afford too much, but what a lovely service she offers! http://yourpage.blazenet.net/moores_c/ Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Sewing Thread > > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > > Both Lacis and Hedgehog Works are my first sources. > > That woujld be Hedgehog Handworks, and I have also been happy with the > linen thread I got for them, for my occasional need for handsewing with > linen. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 12:51:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MHpJSd020221 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:51:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MHoW4S005009; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MHoU7g004078; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:50:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MHoQ7g003982 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:50:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-157-61.client.comcast.net [24.21.157.61]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0MFPhB18403 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:25:44 -0500 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:33:10 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Sewing Thread Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <400F0618.17892.1B2C6B04@localhost> Message-Id: <488D063D-4CF0-11D8-A5C6-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here is the web addy for Robin and Russ... http://www.robinandruss.com/ Althea On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 11:07 PM, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > Robin & Russ Handweavers in McMinnville, Oregon Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 12:59:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MHxoSd020263 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:59:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MHx54S006059; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MHx47g009835; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:59:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MHx27g009808 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:59:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.134.4]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0A216E11B for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:29:28 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:29:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Sewing Thread Message-ID: <400F9801.32494.1D6663BC@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002601c3e0ea$543c4170$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If you look for bobbin lace suppliers, they have a large range of > linen threads available. The finest you get these days is 120/2 wich > is very fine. Unfortunately, many of the bobbin lace threads won't work for sewing. They tend to fray off after even just a few stitches and break as you're trying to pull even the first stitch. I have many reels of bobbin lace thread which I initially got for sewing which just won't work for it, even amongst the larger threads. I find weaving thread to be much better. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 13:34:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MIYmSd020483 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:34:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MIY44S009489; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:34:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MIY07g034679; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:34:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40103.mail.yahoo.com (web40103.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0MIXx7g034614 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:33:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040122182713.18758.qmail@web40103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.6.96] by web40103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:27:13 PST Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:27:13 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1776 WAISTCOAT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, I always love to look at your projects. The embroidery is fantastic and I desperately need to feel the chenille embroidery. I have yet to attempt that. Thank you for sharing, Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 13:46:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MIkvSd020549 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:46:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MIk94S010643; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:46:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MIk77g043088; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:46:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12508.mail.yahoo.com (web12508.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0MIk27g043017 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:46:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sorepaws@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040122183922.74331.qmail@web12508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.43.239.90] by web12508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:39:22 PST Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:39:22 -0800 (PST) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200401221751.i0MHp97i004518@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Duke of Burgundy & the Golden Fleece X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just wanted to thank y'all for all the help, with special hugs to Annora who went way beyond the call. MUCHAS gratefulness! - Lil (who is now wondering about fabric choices .. LOL) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 13:49:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MInSSd020563 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:49:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MImi4S010948; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:48:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MImi7g044886; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:48:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40105.mail.yahoo.com (web40105.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0MImf7g044808 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:48:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040122184154.97206.qmail@web40105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [171.75.6.96] by web40105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:41:54 PST Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:41:54 -0800 (PST) From: me To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Spanish Farthingale Help! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I finished my pair of bodies and moved onto my Farthingale (Finally) I opted for a pattern with a similar silhouette. It uses 4 yards cotton drill, 33yards 1/2" flexible tubing and 22yards 1" wide ribbon. My problem is 1" wide ribbon is quite pricey(50 cents per yard), even using twill tape it will be 36 cents per yard. Is there a cheaper solution? I thought about using some older cotton sheeting to make the channels, thus getting rid of a horrid old sheet and saving money. What do you think? Any suggestions are , as always, greatly appreciated, Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 14:33:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MJXeSd020806 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:33:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MJUr4S014773; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:30:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MJUo7g073516; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:30:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80511.mail.yahoo.com (web80511.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0MJUm7g073429 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:30:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lady_m_de_j@sbcglobal.net) Message-ID: <20040122192403.30676.qmail@web80511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.94.150.100] by web80511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:24:03 PST Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:24:03 -0800 (PST) From: Maura Folsom To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200401221751.i0MHp97h004518@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] web address for Textile Reproductions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thought I'd take a look and see if she was on the web, and yes, she is: http://www.textilereproductions.com/ M. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 14:33:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MJXkSd020809 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:33:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MJTu4S014709; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:29:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MJTn7g072725; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:29:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from charlevoix.vervehosting.com (charlevoix.vervehosting.com [209.50.239.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MJTj7h072686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:29:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from historian@reconstructinghistory.com) Received: from bee-100-34.thebeenet.com ([216.83.100.34] helo=Kass) by charlevoix.vervehosting.com with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AjjQw-0003eB-Je for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:20:03 -0500 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Linen Sewing Thread Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:20:18 -0500 Message-ID: <006901c3e114$6651fab0$766453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <400F9801.32494.1D6663BC@localhost> Importance: Normal X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - charlevoix.vervehosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - reconstructinghistory.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If you look for bobbin lace suppliers, they have a large range of > linen threads available. The finest you get these days is 120/2 wich > is very fine. Unfortunately, many of the bobbin lace threads won't work for sewing. They tend to fray off after even just a few stitches and break as you're trying to pull even the first stitch. I have many reels of bobbin lace thread which I initially got for sewing which just won't work for it, even amongst the larger threads. I find weaving thread to be much better. >>>> I use 40/2 linen thread from the-mannings.com for all my sewing. You have to use shorter lengths than with other threads and I always wax it, but it works well. Kass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 14:43:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MJhuSd020845 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:43:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MJhE4S015925; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:43:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MJhB7g081458; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:43:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MJh87g081386 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:43:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1210342615 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:53:51 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4010287C.1030906@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:46:04 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish Farthingale Help! References: <20040122184154.97206.qmail@web40105.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040122184154.97206.qmail@web40105.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO me wrote: > My problem is 1" wide ribbon is quite pricey(50 cents per yard), even using twill tape it will be 36 cents per yard. Is there a cheaper solution? Hancocks usually has a bin of ugly no-name "undetermined content" single-faced ribbon for $1.29 per spool. Spools average about 5 yards and come in all widths. They can be as cheap as 79 cents a spool during sales. If you aren't particular about color these can be great buys. I pick them up from time to time for use as cat toys. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 14:53:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MJr3Sd020856 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:53:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MJq24S016762; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MJpx7g087154; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:51:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MJpv7g087085 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:51:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 538244 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:21:42 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:21:41 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish Farthingale Help! From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040122184154.97206.qmail@web40105.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've made several farthingales. I made them up as I went along, so I can't really give you advice related to a pattern. However, I think that old sheets aren't going to be sturdy enough for the boning; they'll tear easily. If I misunderstood and you're talking about old but unused sheeting, it could work. I buy wide, single-fold pre-made seam binding and I've never had a problem with that. Raw edges are already turned under, ready to use straight from the package so it saves me lots of time. It's also bias cut so it goes around curves better, and the whole skirt is curved. I'm usually working under a time crunch, so I'm more than willing to spend some extra money to save myself the several hours it would take to make my own strips, folding under raw edges, etc. LynnD On 1/22/04 10:41 AM, "me" wrote: > I finished my pair of bodies and moved onto my Farthingale (Finally) I opted > for a pattern with a similar silhouette. It uses 4 yards cotton drill, 33yards > 1/2" flexible tubing and 22yards 1" wide ribbon. My problem is 1" wide ribbon > is quite pricey(50 cents per yard), even using twill tape it will be 36 cents > per yard. Is there a cheaper solution? I thought about using some older cotton > sheeting to make the channels, thus getting rid of a horrid old sheet and > saving money. What do you think? Any suggestions are , as always, greatly > appreciated, Angelique > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 15:19:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MKJqSd020918 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:19:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MKIn4S019693; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MKIh7g005695; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:18:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf09.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf09.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.209]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MKIg7g005620 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:18:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Received: from laptop ([68.185.168.247]) by mxsf09.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.10/8.12.8) with SMTP id i0MJwRcd099062 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:58:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Message-ID: <001901c3e122$1d78cea0$f7a8b944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040122184154.97206.qmail@web40105.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish Farthingale Help! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:58:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What about 7/8" grosgrain ribbon? I just picked up a spool at Joanns for $3 - 18 ft per spool. That's 6 yds per spool...you'd need 4 spools...I just always like to have some around - it comes in handy! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "me" To: Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:41 PM Subject: [h-cost] Spanish Farthingale Help! > I finished my pair of bodies and moved onto my Farthingale (Finally) I opted for a pattern with a similar silhouette. It uses 4 yards cotton drill, 33yards 1/2" flexible tubing and 22yards 1" wide ribbon. My problem is 1" wide ribbon is quite pricey(50 cents per yard), even using twill tape it will be 36 cents per yard. Is there a cheaper solution? I thought about using some older cotton sheeting to make the channels, thus getting rid of a horrid old sheet and saving money. What do you think? Any suggestions are , as always, greatly appreciated, Angelique > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 15:29:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MKTSSd020956 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:29:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MKSU4S020772; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:28:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MKST7g012228; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:28:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20808.mail.yahoo.com (web20808.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.197]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0MKSP7g012199 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:28:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mlysett@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040122202142.47153.qmail@web20808.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.33.143.139] by web20808.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:21:42 PST Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:21:42 -0800 (PST) From: mlysett Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've bought a lot of linen from www.denverfabrics.com. Great customer service, fast shipping (which means a lot when it has to go cross-country), and the linen was the highest quality I've seen yet for under $30/yard. I used to always recommend www.fabrics-store.com first, but I switched to denver fabrics about a year ago. You will pay a few more dollars a yard, but the quality, in my opinion, makes it worth it. Just my two cents. Margaret __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 16:06:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0ML62Sd021039 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:06:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ML3u4S024453; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:03:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ML3s7g036158; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:03:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lycos.com (www3.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0ML2L7g035069 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:02:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from panthergirl@mailcity.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:55:20 -0000 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:55:20 -0500 From: "Panther Grrl" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 X-Sender-Ip: 38.118.10.117 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Linen Sources X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not sure if you have an Ikea near you, but they typically sell linen for $5.99 a yard, except when it goes on sale for $2.99 a yard. Its usually medium weight, sometimes lighter, in whatever *fashion* color of the moment. ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 16:39:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MLd4Sd021182 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:39:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MLcI4S027830; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:38:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MLc97g059404; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:38:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MLc87g059305 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:38:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.bb.3b2e5e7a (16781) for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:32:35 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:32:35 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil War Ballgown Patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/22/2004 10:00:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, ladyforbeys@yahoo.com writes: I'm pretty sure Martha researches her patterns. Oh, I'm not saying that Ms. McCain doesn't- given the patterns I've seen that are drafted/designed by her, I'd say that she's the best/one of the best out of the "Big 4". My "Wow, Simplicity actually based the dress on something!" was more because I'm usually into Elizabethan clothing/costumes. Which the Big 4 don't do quite as well on (with the notable exception of Simplicity's SiL costume, as far as I can see). Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 16:44:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MLiUSd021204 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:44:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MLhU4S028364; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:43:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MLhT7g063083; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:43:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MLhS7g063050 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:43:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marthakelly@nyc.rr.com) Received: from Martha (24-193-206-105.nyc.rr.com [24.193.206.105]) by nycsmtp4out-eri0.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.10/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id i0ML9ttv013620 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:09:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:09:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <200401221901.i0MJ157i053718@net.indra.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Farthingale help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Angelique If you're using plastic tubing, I can assume you're not hung up on historical accuracy! When I make mock-ups of any sort of hoop, farthingale, pannier, I do just what you said - use old fabric to make the casing. I cut it with a rotary cutter and then after seaming the strips, I run the edges through the serger. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 17:16:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MMGmSd021383 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:16:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MMFx4S001302; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:15:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MMFt7g085376; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:15:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MMFk7g085288 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:15:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.131.143]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA6A96E3C7 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:15:44 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:15:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish Farthingale Help! Message-ID: <400FDB19.1462.1E6C79F9@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20040122184154.97206.qmail@web40105.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I finished my pair of bodies and moved onto my Farthingale (Finally) I > opted for a pattern with a similar silhouette. It uses 4 yards cotton > drill, 33yards 1/2" flexible tubing and 22yards 1" wide ribbon. My > problem is 1" wide ribbon is quite pricey(50 cents per yard), even > using twill tape it will be 36 cents per yard. Is there a cheaper > solution? I thought about using some older cotton sheeting to make the > channels, thus getting rid of a horrid old sheet and saving money. > What do you think? Any suggestions are , as always, greatly > appreciated, Angelique If you can't find "spool-O" ribbon in the right width (which usually is *much* cheaper than regular ribbon), and you can't find a bulk twill tape source cheap enough, I'd suggest using bias tape. You can make your own (but please don't use an old sheet as it will tear at the worst possible time) or buy it (even in colors) which usually works out much cheaper than ribbon. If you have any of the drill left, that would be good for making bias tape. Many regular sewing books (such as the Singer sewing book and all the old standbys) show how to make it. If you buy a bias tape maker (which is a little metal thing which helps turn the edges while you're ironing it), they usually have directions in them on how to make the tape from yardage. You can find them in all sorts of sizes, including 1", usually in the quilt making section. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 17:18:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MMIaSd021391 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:18:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MMHp4S001475; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:17:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MMHn7g086588; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:17:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MMHl7g086573 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:17:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0MJJOK23197 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:19:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0182.dialsprint.net ([63.186.144.182]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AjkMN-00011x-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:19:23 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:19:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] gentlemans embroidered waistcoat 1766 From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040122153702.97315.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What a privilege to see this exquisite work. Ruth Anne Baumgartner costumer and scholar gypsy on 1/22/04 10:37 AM, KATHRYN WOLTERS at albrakat7@yahoo.com wrote: > It's beautiful, Barne-- > Albra > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > Finally i can present to you the left finished side of the embroidered > waistcoat after Gustav III's wedding suit. > It is embroidered with pipers silk floss and embellished with silver spangels, > the smallest you can get. > There also are the 2 pocket flaps. > It has taken me months to make it. > You can notice in the big pictures, that i didnt embroider the places where > the button holes are to be. > When this is completely finished ( the left pocket flap is not finished) i > shall start to make the left jacket piece. This is the one wich is going to be > embroidered with silk chenille. > I beg you to forgive the bad light in the pictures, but winter in Denmark is > very dark. > The waistcoat is made of silk duchesse satin. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm > > Bjarne > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 17:35:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MMZoSd021455 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:35:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MMYg4S003000; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:34:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MMYf7g098075; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:34:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MMYb7g098056 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:34:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from madlystitching@earthlink.net) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0MIiF901777 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:44:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from user-38lc2gn.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.10.23] helo=w7m1l6) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AjjoJ-0000LU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:44:12 -0800 Message-ID: <006701c3e117$8a60c140$170a56d1@w7m1l6> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000b01c3e0d5$66884b90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] gentlemans embroidered waistcoat 1766 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:42:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ELNK-Trace: 08dba192340bde6e1a6ab3b9b70940f894f5150ab1c16ac050a736d1df7ddf74caa6c8b1fddaccd442b2608d0fa432f3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Too wonderful for mere words, Bjarne. Tell Leaf from me that he should consider himself a very lucky man to be married to someone this talented. Stephen Bergdahl One thing you got to say about the Republicans, they don't give up easily. Impeach Clinton, steal Florida, redistrict Texas, recall Davis. You know what , these guys had better watch out or they're going to get slapped with the reputation of being extremely sore losers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 2:49 AM Subject: [h-cost] gentlemans embroidered waistcoat 1766 Hi, Finally i can present to you the left finished side of the embroidered waistcoat after Gustav III's wedding suit. It is embroidered with pipers silk floss and embellished with silver spangels, the smallest you can get. There also are the 2 pocket flaps. It has taken me months to make it. You can notice in the big pictures, that i didnt embroider the places where the button holes are to be. When this is completely finished ( the left pocket flap is not finished) i shall start to make the left jacket piece. This is the one wich is going to be embroidered with silk chenille. I beg you to forgive the bad light in the pictures, but winter in Denmark is very dark. The waistcoat is made of silk duchesse satin. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 18:06:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MN6CSd021576 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:06:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MN5T4S005843; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:05:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MN5R7g019288; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:05:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MN5O7g019240 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:05:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF06A42615 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:16:07 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:08:21 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, Does anyone know where I can find clear, color images (portraits?) of men in 16th century scholar's gowns? I have Patterns of Fashion with the tiny little drawings from the tailors books and the accompanying pattern layouts. I'd like to find something my middle aged eyes can see. Particularly I am trying to figure out where the sleeve seam goes for the big puffy variation, and how they close in the front. I was also wondering if these ever appear in any color other than black, and if they were ever trimmed. The POF images are not in color so I don't know how they might have appeared in real life. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 18:07:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MN7jSd021584 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:07:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MN6w4S005927; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:06:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MN6v7g020232; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:06:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav32.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MN6t7g020149 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:06:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:49:32 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav32.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:49:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040121224931.028fa9a8@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:49:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2004 22:49:32.0948 (UTC) FILETIME=[00838D40:01C3E13A] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In fact, you should heavily prewash the linen > before you make anything, as it can shrink on you. Actually, it WILL shrink on you. Repeatedly. Wash in hot water at least twice. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 18:22:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MNMKSd021651 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:22:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MNKI4S007145; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:20:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MNKC7g028852; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:20:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav47.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MNJt7g028547 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:19:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:02:31 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav47.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:02:31 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: linen source and 'Textile Reproductions' Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:57:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2004 23:02:31.0782 (UTC) FILETIME=[D0BC3060:01C3E13B] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I recently heard about a source for linen that seems to be very affordable: > www.libertylinens.com > I'm not sure about the quality and I've never ordered from them (neither > did the person I heard about it from), but it seems like it might be > worth investigating. It might be worth it if their stuff is of superior quality to what we can find elsewhere, but the prices can't compete with www.fabric.com and www.fabrics-store.com . It might still be interesting though. If someone orders from them, let us know what you think. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 18:29:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MNTqSd021668 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:29:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MNT64S007730; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:29:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MNT17g034352; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:29:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav10.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.114]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MNSw7g034287 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:29:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:11:32 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav10.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:11:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <400F670B.4020804@pcez.com> <400FFDCD.9050607@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:08:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2004 23:11:32.0814 (UTC) FILETIME=[13371EE0:01C3E13D] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >> Where is the best place on the web to buy linen? > > > > http://www.fabric.com/ (wonderful service, great items) > > Just a comment: they have great linen and blends, make sure you know > which you are buying, They're not in the same category though, so unless you actually click on "linen blends" link there's no way to make that mistake. > but it tends to be seasonal. Right now they are > selling the last of the linen at clearance. Because they're going to get some soon (Spring, you know, is the time of the year where we see it in regular fabric stores). I've never seen them actually run out of linen. I think their present stock is the lowest I've ever seen. > You can also get it undyed from dharmatrading.com , at a pretty good > price if you and a friend are needing a whole bolt. Dharmatrading also have very interesting stuff in silk and hemp. All undyed except some black. Good quality, as far as I know. I've ordered only once, but I know they have good customer service (they answer email fairly quickly and in detail, for one thing :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 18:30:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MNUuSd021676 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:30:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MNU54S007876; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:30:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MNU57g035077; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:30:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav42.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MNTn7g034801 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:29:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:12:27 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav42.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:12:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Sources Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:12:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2004 23:12:27.0585 (UTC) FILETIME=[33DC8310:01C3E13D] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Not sure if you have an Ikea near you, but they typically sell linen for $5.99 a yard, except when > it goes on sale for $2.99 a yard. Its usually medium > weight, sometimes lighter, in whatever *fashion* color > of the moment. Oooh... I'd forgotten about that! Thanks for reminding me! I remember being all excited last time I looked around the Ikea store and found linen so inexpensive! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 18:31:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0MNV2Sd021679 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:31:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MNTx4S007852; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:30:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MNTx7g034974; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:29:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav64.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MNT47g034333 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:29:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:11:33 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav64.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:11:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040122202142.47153.qmail@web20808.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:11:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2004 23:11:33.0495 (UTC) FILETIME=[139F0870:01C3E13D] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I've bought a lot of linen from www.denverfabrics.com. Great customer > service, fast shipping (which means a lot when it has to go > cross-country), and the linen was the highest quality I've seen yet for > under $30/yard. I used to always recommend www.fabrics-store.com > first, but I switched to denver fabrics about a year ago. You will pay > a few more dollars a yard, but the quality, in my opinion, makes it > worth it. I have to agree with you about www.fabrics-store.com . I've received slubby linen several times from them. On the other hand, www.fabric.com 's linen has always been smooth as butter. I can't compare with www.denverfabrics.com though, I've never bought linen from them. They have some interesting silk though, and I have cotton velvet on the way right now :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 19:25:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0N0PpSd021809 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:25:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N0Ij4S011897; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:18:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N0Ig7g064355; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:18:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N0Ie7g064292 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:18:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4A9142615 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:29:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40106912.6080503@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:21:38 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen References: <400F670B.4020804@pcez.com> <400FFDCD.9050607@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: >>>http://www.fabric.com/ (wonderful service, great items) >> >>Just a comment: they have great linen and blends, make sure you know >>which you are buying, > > > They're not in the same category though, so unless you actually click on > "linen blends" link there's no way to make that mistake. > Thay have in the past put the linen and linen-blends on the same page, which is how I ended up making that mistake in ordering. It was a clearance sale, and stock was low enough that they mixed it up on one webpage. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 21:04:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0N24TSd022028 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:04:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N22Y4S018004; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:02:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N22V7g015385; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:02:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fed1mtao07.cox.net (fed1mtao07.cox.net [68.6.19.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N22T7g015301 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:02:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mudsleidi@cox.net) Received: from smtp.west.cox.net ([172.18.180.53]) by fed1mtao08.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040122234648.VXZQ11788.fed1mtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:46:48 -0500 From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Hemp, etc. in costuming (was [h-cost] Linen) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:46:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20040122234648.VXZQ11788.fed1mtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Dharmatrading also have very interesting stuff in silk and hemp. Speaking of hemp, does anyone use hemp fabric for any areas of costuming? What is the history of hemp as fabric? And ramie, and/or nettles for that matter? Heidi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 21:19:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0N2JESd022070 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:19:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N2HA4S019297; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:17:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N2H97g022452; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:17:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from charlevoix.vervehosting.com (charlevoix.vervehosting.com [209.50.239.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N2H57h022373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:17:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from historian@reconstructinghistory.com) Received: from bee-100-66.thebeenet.com ([216.83.100.66] helo=Kass) by charlevoix.vervehosting.com with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AjqsU-0004mu-Qh for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:16:59 -0500 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: Hemp, etc. in costuming (was [h-cost] Linen) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:17:16 -0500 Message-ID: <003b01c3e157$08014090$db6453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <20040122234648.VXZQ11788.fed1mtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - charlevoix.vervehosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - reconstructinghistory.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heidi wrote: <> Hemp (and ramie and nettles) is a bast fibre, like flax/linen. The textile fibres come from the long stem of the plant. The vegetation has to be rotted away before the fibres can be freed and spun into useful material. The use of hemp as a textile fibre is almost as old as the use of flax I'm given to understand. I have read some documents that do not distinguish between hemp linen and flax linen. And I've been told by a textile engineer (perhaps on this list?) that they are indistinguishable, even under a microscope. The only way to tell the difference between hemp and flax linen fibres is to do chemical tests on the fibres. If I am mislead, please someone correct me. I'm just operating from memory. Another snipped I seem to remember is that hemp was more commonly in use as sailcloth because it was more rot-resistant than flax linen. I don't know if hemp bleaches as easily as flax linen, but if it doesn't, it might indicate that hemp was a less sought-after fabric (and possibly also cheaper) because it didn't get as white. I can't quote statistics on the use of hemp version flax linen in Europe during the Middle Ages, but I bet someone on this list can enlighten us. =) Kass Reconstructing History Patterns http://reconstructinghistory.com Join Our Pattern Discussion List: http://reconstructinghistory.com/mailman/listinfo/patterns_reconstructin ghistory.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 21:42:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0N2gHSd022170 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:42:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N2fb4S000321; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N2fX7g041642; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:41:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay4-dav109.bay4.hotmail.com [65.54.171.139]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N2fV7g041604 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:41:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ysandra8@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:24:09 -0800 Received: from 66.123.54.137 by bay4-dav109.bay4.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 02:24:09 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.123.54.137] X-Originating-Email: [ysandra8@msn.com] X-Sender: ysandra8@msn.com From: "ysandra sliverneedle" To: References: <200401222329.i0MNTJ7i034525@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:24:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.00.0011.1200 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:24:34 -0800 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2004 02:24:09.0886 (UTC) FILETIME=[FBC45BE0:01C3E157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Simiplicty patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0N2gHSd022170 Status: RO I just bought all the Simplicity Civil War era patterns but have a questions for those of you who know about this time period. There are several different undergarment patterns( petite coats and corsets) and at first look I can't find information about which set should be worn with what dress. If any one knows which pattern number set should be made & worn for each dress I would greatly appreciate it. Many Thanks Ysandra now looking at Civil War Ballgown Patterns _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 22:23:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0N3NQSd022291 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:23:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N3Li4S002433; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:21:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N3Le7g059011; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:21:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N3L37g058612 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:21:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.228]) by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (v92.15) with ESMTP id RELAYIN10-0122221457; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:14:57 -0500 Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.1d6.18cd0606 (4568) for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:09:46 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1d6.18cd0606.2d41ea7a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:09:46 EST Subject: Re: Hemp, etc. in costuming (was [h-cost] Linen) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/22/2004 9:17:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, historian@reconstructinghistory.com writes: And I've been told by a textile engineer (perhaps on this list?) that they are indistinguishable, even under a microscope. The only way to tell the difference between hemp and flax linen fibres is to do chemical tests on the fibres. It is probably the other way around--they are, I believe, chemically identical but look slightly different under the microscope. When I took textile microscopy, we did not look at hemp, but we did look at ramie and flax. They are similar, but can be distinguished from each other. Hemp was, of course, also used for cordage. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 22:42:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0N3gnSd022318 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:42:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N3g74S003573; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:42:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N3g17g067441; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:42:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N3fq7g067359 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:41:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dychap@earthlink.net) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0N0tG914352 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:55:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ip-65-78-212-232.elnk.wvfibernet.net ([65.78.212.232] helo=earthlink.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AjpbJ-00049t-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:55:09 -0800 Message-ID: <40107203.7060508@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:59:47 -0500 From: Dhannti User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] gentlemans embroidered waistcoat 1766 References: <000b01c3e0d5$66884b90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000b01c3e0d5$66884b90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi, >Finally i can present to you the left finished side of the embroidered waistcoat after Gustav III's wedding suit. >It is embroidered with pipers silk floss and embellished with silver spangels, the smallest you can get. >There also are the 2 pocket flaps. >It has taken me months to make it. >You can notice in the big pictures, that i didnt embroider the places where the button holes are to be. >When this is completely finished ( the left pocket flap is not finished) i shall start to make the left jacket piece. This is the one wich is going to be embroidered with silk chenille. >I beg you to forgive the bad light in the pictures, but winter in Denmark is very dark. >The waistcoat is made of silk duchesse satin. >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm > > > Bjarne it is simply stunning. You'll be much admired in that jacket. Can't wait till its finished and we get to see photos of you waering it. Di, green with envy, in awe of the work. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 22 23:25:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0N4PRSd022435 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:25:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N4NW4S005847; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:23:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N4NR7g084941; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:23:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N4NP7g084921 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:23:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.131.143]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C5D46A985 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:58:43 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:58:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: Hemp, etc. in costuming (was [h-cost] Linen) Message-ID: <40102B77.9973.1FA66929@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003b01c3e157$08014090$db6453d8@Kass> References: <20040122234648.VXZQ11788.fed1mtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The use of hemp as a textile fibre is almost as old as the use of flax > I'm given to understand. I have read some documents that do not > distinguish between hemp linen and flax linen. And I've been told by > a textile engineer (perhaps on this list?) that they are > indistinguishable, even under a microscope. The only way to tell the > difference between hemp and flax linen fibres is to do chemical tests > on the fibres. I suspect the textile engineer (or memory) got them reversed. According to the textile books I have they look different but they are both the same cellulose and the like when you look at them chemically. The cross section especially looks different. There is an irregular oval in the center of a flax fibre whereas in the hemp fibre there is sort of a trilobate center. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 02:58:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0N7wNSd016252 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 02:58:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N7sv4S014606; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 00:54:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N7sp7g063390; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 00:54:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N7sn7g063358 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 00:54:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion (213-78-105-189.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.105.189]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ATM68486; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 07:54:45 GMT Message-ID: <00d001c3e187$1cd10200$b3784ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000b01c3e0d5$66884b90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <40107203.7060508@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] gentlemans embroidered waistcoat 1766 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:00:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Hi, >Finally i can present to you the left finished side of the embroidered waistcoat after Gustav III's wedding suit. Wow, you do some brill work,. what patience Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 05:31:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NAVISd017002 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 05:31:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NAUa4S020049; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 03:30:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NAUV7g014276; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 03:30:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NAUQ7g014233 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 03:30:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.246]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AC69426293D for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:30:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000e01c3e19b$e9c750c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:30:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] farthingale help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0NAVISd017002 Status: RO Hi, I must admit that when it comes to underwear like supports, i am not that historicall accurate. For my paniers is made of cotton muslin and the boning cases i make of cut strips of the same material, so you could do the same, if you dont have anybody to examin your underwear. The most important in my oppinion is that you get the right shape and the best support for your dress. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 05:46:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NAkISd017018 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 05:46:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NAiO4S020354; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 03:44:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NAiN7g018387; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 03:44:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NAiM7g018376 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 03:44:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.246]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 90DD5262A09 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:44:21 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c3e19d$e52024f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:44:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 18th century quilting stitches 2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0NAkISd017018 Status: RO Hi, If i were you, i would not bother to try to make it accurate as it was. I am sure the thread they sewed the stitches with was much finer than the thread we use today. It is the same with bobbin lace. Today you would not be able to make a 18th century bobbin lace, because the thread was so incredible fine. Also you must think about the proportions. 18th century people were much smaller than we are today, and therefore you should blow everything up in the right proportions, including the stitching. Just my 2 cents. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 06:28:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NBStSd017187 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:28:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NBSH4S021385; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:28:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NBSE7g032514; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:28:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NBS27g032457 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:28:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-250.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.250]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N7fMUP022351 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:41:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040122233315.04c18880@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:33:32 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns In-Reply-To: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Does anyone know where I can find clear, color images (portraits?) of men >in 16th century scholar's gowns? Holbein drawings/paintings. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 08:11:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NDBbSd017464 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:11:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NDAx4S024337; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:10:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NDAu7g064609; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:10:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0NDAr7g064535 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:10:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rachel_holliday@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040123130407.6670.qmail@web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.157.217.73] by web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:04:07 GMT Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:04:07 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <015601c3dce2$c9640200$33764ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mel, how old do you want? I still have mine from nearly 20 years ago (God that makes me sound old!). Email me off list and I can take some digital photos and send them to you. Rachel --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > Has anyone got any pictures of old Brownie Uniforms please ? > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 08:26:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NDQXSd017508 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:26:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NDOb4S024779; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:24:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NDOa7g069034; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:24:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.159]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NDOX7g069023 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:24:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-121-195.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.121.195]) by msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BQL79357; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:16:26 GMT Message-ID: <00c201c3e1b3$1846e200$656d4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040123130407.6670.qmail@web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:16:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Mel, how old do you want? I thought that read how old am I ! > I still have mine from nearly 20 years ago (God that makes me sound old!). Email me off list and I can take some digital photos and send them to you. I have mine from 35 years ago how old does that make me ! I'm looking for WW2 and the very early Rosebuds ones in preferance but my daughter is doing the history of them so any would do, I have NO photos of me in it however, but I'll probably dress her up and take some, it is the brown cotton dress with pochets yellow cross tie type ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 09:21:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NELISd018810 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:21:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NDaq4S025475; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:36:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NDao7g073288; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:36:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NDam7g073260 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:36:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i0NDajA21891.; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:36:45 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:36:45 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:36:20 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was a Brownie in the late 1950s, but don't have any photos. I can only remember that I wore a brown dress with "military" pockets and a brown knitted cap. >>> MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk 23/01/04 13:16:20 >>> I have mine from 35 years ago how old does that make me ! I'm looking for WW2 and the very early Rosebuds ones in preferance but my daughter is doing the history of them so any would do, I have NO photos of me in it however, but I'll probably dress her up and take some, it is the brown cotton dress with pochets yellow cross tie type ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 09:36:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NEajSd019197 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:36:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NEa54S028201; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 07:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NEa07g096137; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 07:36:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14005.mail.yahoo.com (web14005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0NEZv7g096120 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 07:35:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040123142916.47977.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:29:16 GMT Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:29:16 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simiplicty patterns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: ysandra8@msn.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm no expert, but I'm learning. Petticoats were worn over hoops to avoid the 'lampshade' look that boning can give a hoop. some cotton day dresses/work dresses didn't use corsets or hoops. just petticoats. These were usually bodices gathered into a waistband and simple gathered skirts. better day dresses and ball gowns used the whole gamut of undergarments. corset, pantaloons, chemise, petticoats and hoop. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CWCivilian/ this group can probably help you with finer details. --- ysandra sliverneedle wrote: > I just bought all the Simplicity Civil War era > patterns but have a questions for those of you who > know about this time period. There are several > different undergarment patterns( petite coats and > corsets) and at first look I can't find information > about which set should be worn with what dress. If > any one knows which pattern number set should be > made & worn for each dress I would greatly > appreciate it. > Many Thanks > Ysandra > now looking at Civil War Ballgown Patterns > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Seńora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 10:44:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NFi1Sd019735 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:44:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NFfp4S002538; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:41:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NFfk7g030849; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:41:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0NFfj7g030773 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:41:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rachel_holliday@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040123153459.48130.qmail@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.157.217.73] by web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:34:59 GMT Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:34:59 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00c201c3e1b3$1846e200$656d4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > >Mel, how old do you want? > > I thought that read how old am I ! Sorry, I'm not so impolite as to ask a lady's age. > I'm looking for WW2 and the very early Rosebuds ones in preferance but my > daughter is doing the history of them so any would do, I have NO photos of I can have a check through my mums photo albums and see if there are any of her in her uniform, she was born in 49 so it's bit later but not by much. > me in it however, but I'll probably dress her up and take some, it is the > brown cotton dress with pochets yellow cross tie type ? That's the one! If I look very hard I might even be able to find my brown bobble hat to go with it. ===== Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 11:48:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NGlxSd019938 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:48:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NGke4S008125; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:46:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NGkY7g073476; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:46:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NGkW7g073456 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:46:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@infotrope.net) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07EC3369EA for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:21:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1Ak43L-0006Zf-00 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:21:03 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns In-Reply-To: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> References: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:21:03 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > Does anyone know where I can find clear, color images (portraits?) of > men in 16th century scholar's gowns? > > I have Patterns of Fashion with the tiny little drawings from the > tailors books and the accompanying pattern layouts. I'd like to find > something my middle aged eyes can see. Particularly I am trying to > figure out where the sleeve seam goes for the big puffy variation, and > how they close in the front. > > I was also wondering if these ever appear in any color other than black, > and if they were ever trimmed. The POF images are not in color so I > don't know how they might have appeared in real life. The pictures from PoF are also available at http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/ so that will give you a bigger image than what you see in Arnold's pictures. I have tried the sleeves from the Milanese Tailors Handbook, the ones shaped like a P (see http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f87L.html), and actually if you just trust and do it you'll find that it works. The only one I know of in any colour other than black is the shag-lined robe in PoF. It's not a scholar's robe really, just a long robe. I think the black = scholar thing is pretty firm. I've never seen them trimmed but that doesn't mean that they never were. If I were doing it I'd go for black-on-black trim, perhaps just some subtle couched cord or something. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 12:11:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NHBUSd020014 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:11:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NHAd4S010967; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:10:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NHAb7g090640; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:10:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NHAS7g090475 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:10:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 721C542615 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:21:15 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4011563E.7000108@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:13:34 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns References: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kirrily Robert wrote: > The pictures from PoF are also available at > http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/ so that will give you a bigger image than > what you see in Arnold's pictures. Terrific! Thanks. I had spent a couple hours the other night and somehow never found this site. There's an image of 'gentleman's attire' (f80r) that's in red, which is perfect. Trim in red (couched?) and gold... Most of the black gowns I can't see a darn thing on other than the outline. :( Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 14:42:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NJgBSd020781 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:42:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NJf24S026268; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NJeu7g095501; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:40:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NJeG7g095069 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:40:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 061E46D705; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:45:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust25.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.25]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0CAE36D7AA for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:45:07 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <0b7101c3e1e1$2d7d6670$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040122234648.VXZQ11788.fed1mtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> <40102B77.9973.1FA66929@localhost> Subject: Re: Hemp, etc. in costuming (was [h-cost] Linen) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:46:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0NJgBSd020781 Status: RO [Apologies for dropping out of previous conversations before finished. My husband was recently in a very nasty car accident, in which he was hit by a garbage truck, a concrete wall, and one or two other cars in the resulting pileup, all going freeway speed. Any prayers, etc, would be very welcome--he and everyone else miraculously survived, but his back and shoulder are pretty messed up. However, he's back at work today--yay! And he drove himself--I'm a bundle of raw nerves.] Over the past few months, I've been looking into hemp as a replacement for more expensive or hard-to-find weaves of linen--it all started because I could NOT find a tight, unslubby flax linen herringbone that was heavy enough, narrow enough, and under about $50/yd. (Doesn't a pure linen corset sound nice? I'm also looking for something that would serve well for those late Vict. mesh summer corsets.) I haven't been able to pick up too much detail on the research side; the problem being, of course, that they just didn't differentiate between the two all that often. What I have found suggests that it was just plain a geographical/climatic choice: if they grew hemp, they used it; if they grew flax, they used it; if they grew both, they used both. If you have a specific date and location that you're tied to, you'd of course need to research specifically, but was it used in medieval Europe, to make fabric, and was the fabric then traded? Yes. Here's a quick, not too coherent summary of my even less coherent notes; below that are a few practical notes for hemp experiments: Herodotus makes early mention of hemp fabrics, noting that the Scythians and Thracians were able to produce finely woven hemp cloth: "Someone without great experience would not recognize whether they were of hemp or linen, and whoever has not yet seen hemp cloth would think the garments were of linen." Goths are thought to have originated the use of hemp in central Europe in the 2nd & 3rd centuries. Italy is tied to the use of hemp for high-quality fabrics (Marie de Medici had two hemp 'blouses' [presumably chemises] in her trousseau), while Russia is tied to the extensive cultivation of both hemp and flax; one of the major exports of the Muscovy Company in the second half of the 16th C was hemp. The area from the northern Baltic region to southern Italy was best suited to hemp cultivation; hemp grows wild around the Caspian sea. Lincolnshire had an excellent climate and soil for hemp, and the first Encyclopedia Brittannica mentions that they could produce crops year after year without fertilizer. Shakespeare mentions 'hempen homespun'; an English 1615 instructional work teaches how to grow, harvest, and process hemp. The hemp-weavers' guild is older than the linen-weavers' guild, suggesting that hemp may have been more commonly used than flax until the late 14th century. The preparation of hemp (and flax) fibers inspired some of the earliest 'anti-pollution' laws. Archaeological finds of hemp are probably a lot more common than we know, as flax, hemp, and often nettle are all referred to as linen by many archaeologists. [As an interesting aside, where many western European archaeologists refer to these as 'linen' by default, according to Alastair Miller Czech archaeologists refer to these bast fibers as 'hemp' by default.] However, finds of hemp include the 12th C layers of Gniezno, and early 9th and mid 10th C finds from Birka (graves 619 & 837, and a few more). The funeral garments of Queen Arnegunde include a hempen tunic, and seeds were found aboard the Oseberg ship. A good online article is found at: http://www.gallowglass.org/jadwiga/SCA/hempnettle.html Short, unformatted bibliography: --R.J. Forbes, "Studies in Ancient Technology", vol IV (EJ Brill, 1987, copyright 1956/1964) --Gervase Markham's "English Housewife", 1615 --"Medieval farming and technology : the impact of agricultural change in northwest Europe", edited by G. Astill and J. Langdon, New York : Brill, 1997 --"Women's Work: The First 20,000 Years" by Elizabeth Wayland Barber; ISBN 0-393-03506-9. --"The Book of Fine Linen", by Françoise de Bonneville (Paris: Flammarion , 1994) --"Advances in Hemp Research" (edited by Paolo Ranalli, New York : Food Products Press, 1999) --"POLONIA SIVE DE SITU, POPULIS, MORIBUS, MAGISTRATIBUS ET REPUBLICA REGNI POLONICI LIBRI DUO" by Marcin Kromer, first time printed in 1575, then 1578, Book one: subtitle: Occupations of Woman --John P. Wild: Textiles in Archaeology , Shire Archaeology Series, Shire Publications LTD., l988 --Ibn al-'Awwam, "Book of Agriculture" --Geijer, Agnes, "A History of Textile Art" London: Pasold Research Fund in association with Sotheby Parke Bernet Publications, Totowa, NJ, 1979, ISBN 0 85667 055 3 Practical notes: If you're looking for a tabby linen, and do not specifically need hemp, go with flax; the same quality and weights are less expensive in flax than in hemp, at least at the moment. However, you can get various weights of hemp tabby linen for under $10. Hemp linen should be put to about the same use as flax linens. For example, if it would not be appropriate to use a flax linen for your outer garment, a hemp linen would not be appropriate either. Tunics, undertunics and undergowns, chemises, etc, should be fine, as would towels and other household linens; hemp was used in needlework; blacksmiths, naval, and military personnel can no doubt find many uses. The same dyeing difficulties exist with hemp as with flax, so in most periods you would not commonly see hemp in an outer garment, although Viking types may have more leeway there based on the finds. Various interesting weaves are available in hemp, and some very nice blends as well, including hemp/silk and hemp/wool. I did find my nice, tight, narrow, smooth herringbone in hemp, from http://www.hempsupply.com although I've yet to make anything with it. Speaking of which, my review of the sample set they send out is available at the authentic fabrics group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/authenticfabric message #344; I'll also be reviewing about 10 hemp and hemp blends from: http://www.nearseanaturals.com and http://www.wildnwoolygoods.com as soon as the samples arrive. I'd give a list of more hemp suppliers, but there's just plain too many. Go to Google, and do the following search: . also turns up several good hemp suppliers, mostly geared towards 18th C reenactment, but more expensive overall. For non-tabby weaves and interesting blends, expect to pay between $8-$20/yd. However, the price does vary widely from supplier to supplier, so be sure to compare. I've been basing my comparison on the heavy 'pinwheel' weave hemp: http://www.hempsupply.com/fabric/D4163.asp it's easily recognizeable, and is sold by nearly all the hemp suppliers. Comparing the price of that should give you a good idea of how much each supplier marks up the fabric. I've yet to find any hemp I'd be happy using as hand-sewing thread, though I'm sure it's possible to produce such a thing; using threads pulled from the cloth wasn't met with much success either. It sews well with everything else I've tried on it, though flax linen seems to wear out faster going through hemp--use even shorter lengths and more wax/conditioner than normal. However, that could be simply because overall, I was using the flax linen thread on heavier weights of cloth than normal--the average weight of the fabric I've tested was a tightly woven ~12oz. The finely spun silk 3-ply I tried worked very nicely. I'll be using a hemp or hemp/silk blend to make two modern garments (well, 'old west' themed modern sci-fi, if you can picture that--lining for Mal and Zoe's coats, if you can REALLY picture that!) as soon as I've picked one from the samples; I'll let you all know how well it makes up. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 14:59:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NJxhSd020829 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:59:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NJwq4S027869; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:58:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NJwo7g007043; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:58:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NJwm7g007013 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:58:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.163] (pm5-163.eos.net [205.133.149.163]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NJmPgg029202 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:48:26 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:49:03 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401231437.i0NEau7h096576@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: IKEA X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO An IKEA store with fabric? The Pittsburgh store hasn't carried fabric for years, though I used to get all kinds of cool fabric there. I just assumed all the stores stopped carrying it, or all the US stores, anyway. Gail Finke from IKEA-less Cincinnati _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 14:59:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NJxvSd020833 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:59:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NJxA4S027915; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:59:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NJx97g007266; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:59:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NJwm7i007013 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:58:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.163] (pm5-163.eos.net [205.133.149.163]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NJr0gg000283 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:53:01 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:53:38 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401231437.i0NEau7h096576@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: bjarne's jacket X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne: That is so beautiful! I think you are like Cinderella, except that you don't have a fairy godmother, so you have to make your own things. They are that lovely, just like magic. I like to think of you working hard all day, with a closet full of magic clothes at home. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 15:09:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NK9ISd020855 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:09:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NK8X4S028684; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:08:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NK8V7g013273; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:08:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NK8T7g013214 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:08:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.246]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 26CB647FF7B for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:08:26 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001801c3e1ec$b365f1c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:08:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] eyecandy, two late, two expensive X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0NK9ISd020855 Status: RO Hi, A friend sended me this link, and i thoaght you would like to see. Sigh i wish i was a millionaire http://www.coutaubegarie.com/php/catalogue/diaporama_vente.php?id_vente=236 Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 17:28:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0NMS3Sd021326 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:28:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NMRI4S010423; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:27:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NMR87g003418; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:27:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NMR67g003370 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:27:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-250.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.250]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10 1msg/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NMQE8h008766 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:26:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040123140328.051dacc0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:21:15 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century quilting stitches 2 In-Reply-To: <000f01c3e19d$e52024f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >If i were you, i would not bother to try to make it accurate as it was. I >am sure the thread they sewed the stitches with was much finer than the >thread we use today. >It is the same with bobbin lace. Today you would not be able to make a >18th century bobbin lace, because the thread was so incredible fine. >Also you must think about the proportions. 18th century people were much >smaller than we are today, and therefore you should blow everything up in >the right proportions, including the stitching. >Just my 2 cents. Coming from you, this is a valuable two cents. I had begun to get discouraged. I have been trying to get my stitches shorter, using a shorter thinner needle and thinner batting, and there seemed to be a limit of what the material would allow me to do. The other problem, of course, is that freehand embroidery is not what I'm best at (I got a workmanship award at one CostumeCon for my counted thread cross stitch). So I will continue to work on getting my stitches even, and will go ahead with my original plan. Thank you so much. I'm almost finished quilting my pocket, and will post an image of it when I get the binding on it. It's a first try at fine quilting, and I'm embarrassed to say that the stitches got bigger as the hour of the day got later. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 19:21:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0O0LSSd021805 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:21:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0O0KK4S021170; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:20:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0O0KC7g069722; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:20:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fed1mtao04.cox.net (fed1mtao04.cox.net [68.6.19.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0O0Jr7j069478 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:20:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mudsleidi@cox.net) Received: from ZORRO.cox.net ([68.7.135.77]) by fed1mtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20040123202618.TKCJ3905.fed1mtao04.cox.net@ZORRO.cox.net> for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:26:18 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20040123121934.02a4c488@pop.west.cox.net> X-Sender: mudsleidi@pop.west.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:24:14 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heidi Fox Subject: Re: Hemp, etc. in costuming (was [h-cost] Linen) In-Reply-To: <0b7101c3e1e1$2d7d6670$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <20040122234648.VXZQ11788.fed1mtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> <40102B77.9973.1FA66929@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My goodness, thank you! That's a wealth of information and some welcome links! I often use hemp for other sewing projects, not only because of its absorbency and mildew resistance, but because I'd really like to support the industry. It only occurred to me recently to wonder if I could use it in my historical projects. And my thoughts and prayers go out to your husband and your family--sounds like a miraculous twist of fate that he is alive. Heidi At 12:46 PM 1/23/2004 -0600, you wrote: >I've been looking into hemp >-E >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 19:36:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0O0a9Sd021842 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:36:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0O0Yf4S022755; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:34:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0O0Ye7g077538; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:34:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0O0Ya7g077505 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:34:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.205.144]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRY00LDNXLMLP@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:34:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:30:40 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century quilting stitches 2 In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20040123140328.051dacc0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040123162808.00b0c948@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <000f01c3e19d$e52024f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:21 PM 1/23/2004 -0800, you wrote: >and I'm embarrassed to say that the stitches got bigger as the hour of the >day got later. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows Don't be embarrassed about that. My mom, who is a very accomplished Japanese embroiderer, has that same problem. We aren't computerized machines, we are humans who fluctuate throughout the day and night. The stitches I have seen in various vintage samples are not perfect by any stretch. It just gets better with more practice, but perfect, never. my two pence, Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Costume Mistress for Isle of Mann Guild Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 23 22:04:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0O347Sd022155 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 22:04:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0O32r4S003197; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:02:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0O32o7g042257; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:02:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fed1mtai06.cox.net (fed1mtai06.cox.net [68.6.19.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0O32j7l042202 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:02:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mudsleidi@cox.net) Received: from ZORRO.cox.net ([68.7.135.77]) by fed1mtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20040124005835.CJLM3322.fed1mtao01.cox.net@ZORRO.cox.net> for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:58:35 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20040123165545.02a7ce70@pop.west.cox.net> X-Sender: mudsleidi@pop.west.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:56:36 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heidi Fox Subject: RE: Hemp, etc. in costuming (was [h-cost] Linen) In-Reply-To: <003b01c3e157$08014090$db6453d8@Kass> References: <20040122234648.VXZQ11788.fed1mtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you, Kass! >I can't quote statistics on the use of hemp version flax linen in Europe >during the Middle Ages, but I bet someone on this list can enlighten us. >=) > >Kass >Reconstructing History Patterns >http://reconstructinghistory.com >Join Our Pattern Discussion List: >http://reconstructinghistory.com/mailman/listinfo/patterns_reconstructin >ghistory.com > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 24 04:31:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0O9VjSd016779 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 04:31:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0O9V14S017757; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 02:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0O9Up7g073594; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 02:30:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from queue4-svc.ntlworld.com (queue4-win.server.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0O9Um7g073578 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 02:30:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040122150245.RSUM10284.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:02:45 +0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040122150043.026e7cd8@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:01:59 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] REgency gown fastenings? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20040121180736.032b7eb0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> References: <03f001c3deee$c63c01f0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-599D1DC8; boundary="=======4B221EE5=======" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 00:22 22/01/2004 Danielle Nunn-Weinberg said >The back waistline should be about where your bra-strap fits or slightly >higher. I've seen some fashion plates that go up in a "v" at the back. I >had a problem with the back being too low, that could have been because I >had to do so much fiddling but I'm not sure. Have a look. Authentically - how did Empire Line/Regency gowns fasten? I've found the drawstring at neckline and below the bustline, and the bib front, but how did they fasten later, when the gowns became more structured? Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT Breathtaking Historical Romance. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ The Richard and Rose books from Novelbooks Inc. Coming soon; HARLEY STREET. VANESSA from Awe-Struck _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 24 09:06:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0OE6NSd017609 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:06:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OE4c4S027995; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:04:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OE4X7g059158; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:04:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OE4V7g059105 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:04:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.17a.250b524f (3858) for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:59:18 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <17a.250b524f.2d43d436@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:59:18 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] REgency gown fastenings? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/24/2004 4:32:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com writes: Authentically - how did Empire Line/Regency gowns fasten? I've found the drawstring at neckline and below the bustline, and the bib front, but how did they fasten later, when the gowns became more structured? I've seen examples with hooks and eyes--just one at the neck and one at the waist--evidently, they didn't worry so much about "gaposis." Some have buttons, but, in my experience, buttons are not nearly as common as they are among reenactors. I'm sure Barry and Judy can provide some insight here, too. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 24 09:12:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0OECXSd017658 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:12:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OEBu4S028248; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:11:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OEBt7g061323; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:11:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OEBr7h061310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:11:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0OEU9Wm008869 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:30:09 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.104] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAC7FA1A0132; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:01:43 -0500 Message-ID: <003701c3e284$afdf18e0$685183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001801c3e1ec$b365f1c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] eyecandy, two late, two expensive Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:16:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow! This was like looking at the Kyoto Museum book. What a collection! Thank you. I too am a long time admirer of Your work and am following the progress of the present project. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 3:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] eyecandy, two late, two expensive Hi, A friend sended me this link, and i thoaght you would like to see. Sigh i wish i was a millionaire http://www.coutaubegarie.com/php/catalogue/diaporama_vente.php?id_vente=236 Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 24 13:15:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0OIFiSd019153 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:15:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OIEw4S010070; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 11:14:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OIEnAq050271; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 11:14:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OIEkAr050244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 11:14:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0OIX5Wm018749 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:33:05 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.113] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3B0AB2B010C; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:04:32 -0500 Message-ID: <002b01c3e2a6$9bdb60c0$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:19:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One that jumps to mind is "Thomas Moore' Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 6:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns > Greetings all, > > Does anyone know where I can find clear, color images (portraits?) of > men in 16th century scholar's gowns? > > I have Patterns of Fashion with the tiny little drawings from the > tailors books and the accompanying pattern layouts. I'd like to find > something my middle aged eyes can see. Particularly I am trying to > figure out where the sleeve seam goes for the big puffy variation, and > how they close in the front. > > I was also wondering if these ever appear in any color other than black, > and if they were ever trimmed. The POF images are not in color so I > don't know how they might have appeared in real life. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 24 14:13:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0OJDISd019469 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:13:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OJCc4S013307; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OJCYAq072786; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:12:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OJCVAr072777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:12:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0OJUpWm019152 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:30:52 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.103] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A13D19E30132; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:02:21 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c3e2ae$afc33a60$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:17:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kirrily, I have finally turned up my book on academic dress. The title is "Academical Dress" By G.W. Shaw, published in 1966 by W. Heffer &Son Limited, Cambridge. There are notes re history of the robes, drawings of the various sleeves and details of the robes and hoods both for sight and description. The earliest one is U. of Cambridge, 13th Century.U of Oxford, 12th C.U of Aberdeen, 1494. There is a discussion re the kind of silk that is permissible but the general description of the robes refer to 'black stuff' which for the rite could be 'whatever is at hand' that is black. These comments above are just a look-see. It has been a while since I spent more time with the volume (found when I was preparing "A Man for All Seasons".) Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns > Dawn wrote: > > Does anyone know where I can find clear, color images (portraits?) of > > men in 16th century scholar's gowns? > > > > I have Patterns of Fashion with the tiny little drawings from the > > tailors books and the accompanying pattern layouts. I'd like to find > > something my middle aged eyes can see. Particularly I am trying to > > figure out where the sleeve seam goes for the big puffy variation, and > > how they close in the front. > > > > I was also wondering if these ever appear in any color other than black, > > and if they were ever trimmed. The POF images are not in color so I > > don't know how they might have appeared in real life. > > The pictures from PoF are also available at > http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/ so that will give you a bigger image than > what you see in Arnold's pictures. > > I have tried the sleeves from the Milanese Tailors Handbook, the ones > shaped like a P (see http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f87L.html), and > actually if you just trust and do it you'll find that it works. > > The only one I know of in any colour other than black is the shag-lined > robe in PoF. It's not a scholar's robe really, just a long robe. I > think the black = scholar thing is pretty firm. I've never seen them > trimmed but that doesn't mean that they never were. If I were doing it > I'd go for black-on-black trim, perhaps just some subtle couched cord or > something. > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 24 14:21:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0OJLFSd019479 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:21:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OJKg4S013684; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:20:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OJKfAq075900; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:20:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0OJKdAr075887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:20:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0OJHUPp027509 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:17:30 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:17:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4012C5D0.6020007@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:21:52 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns References: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> <000901c3e2ae$afc33a60$675183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <000901c3e2ae$afc33a60$675183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > The earliest one is U. of Cambridge, 13th Century.U of Oxford, > 12th C.U of Aberdeen, 1494. Was this an extant garment? Or pictorial/text information? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - B. Franklin, 1759 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 24 22:10:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0P3A9Sd021696 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:10:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0P39I4S004042; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:09:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0P39BAq050938; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:09:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0P398Ar050922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:09:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0P3RYWm023692 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:27:34 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.122] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0EDE94A0152; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:58:53 -0500 Message-ID: <002d01c3e2f1$4253f4e0$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> <000901c3e2ae$afc33a60$675183d1@rmitchellras> <4012C5D0.6020007@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:13:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This book is meant to be a bible for academic garb. The textural material deals with the evolution of the garments from the founding of the institutions. " Academical dress arose by a process of evolution and modification of ordinary everyday wear. The gown or robe was the topcoat or cloak of the medieval scholar, and the hood was a headcover. Academical dress has been worn by graduates and students for hundreds of years...Each University on receiving its charter adopts a set of robes of its own." The illustrations are given by drawings of the basic robes and their 'parts', and then a series of drawings of hoods. >From another source (Encyclopedia Brit? 11th edition, the point is made that because of the originality of the various universities, one can recognize (even paintings) which school was the academic home of some of these famous men in history. There seems to be some indication that the museum dusty corners of these venerable institutions do have some extant artifacts to support this theory. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > The earliest one is U. of Cambridge, 13th Century.U of Oxford, > > 12th C.U of Aberdeen, 1494. > > Was this an extant garment? Or pictorial/text information? > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - B. Franklin, 1759 > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 07:20:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0PCKcSd003251 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 07:20:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PCJm4S025241; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 05:19:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PCJhAq005992; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 05:19:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from queue4-svc.ntlworld.com (queue4-win.server.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PCJeAq005970 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 05:19:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@agesofelegance.co.uk) Received: from Imedia5043 ([62.255.132.60]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20040123141006.FZUG16066.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@Imedia5043> for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:10:06 +0000 Message-ID: <011001c3e1ba$a431ce40$1584ff3e@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040123130407.6670.qmail@web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <00c201c3e1b3$1846e200$656d4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:10:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mine was like that from late 60's/early 70's and of course the knitted bobble hat. I'm sure my mum still has pics (in the way they take them of you in uniform. I also seem to remember some of her and her sister in the 50's certainly in guides and maybe brownies so I will ask if you like Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 > brown cotton dress with pochets yellow cross tie type ? > > Mel > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 13:13:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0PIDaSd004261 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:13:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PICm4S010841; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:12:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PIChAq013313; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:12:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.159]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PICfAq013281 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:12:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.163.23]) by msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BQR14966; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:12:34 GMT Message-ID: <015301c3e36f$cc028ca0$17a34ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040123153459.48130.qmail@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:19:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I can have a check through my mums photo albums and see if there are any of her in her uniform, she was born in 49 so it's bit later but not by much. Thanks :) >That's the one! If I look very hard I might even be able to find my brown bobble hat to go with it. I think the knitted hat replaced the beret in the 70s Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 13:14:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0PIELSd004268 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:14:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PIDf4S010897; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:13:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PIDfAq013705; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:13:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.159]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PID5Aq013505 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:13:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.163.23]) by msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BQR15055; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:13:03 GMT Message-ID: <015801c3e36f$dd332f20$17a34ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040123130407.6670.qmail@web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><00c201c3e1b3$1846e200$656d4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> <011001c3e1ba$a431ce40$1584ff3e@Imedia5043> Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:20:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I also seem to remember some of her and her sister in the 50's certainly in guides and maybe brownies so I will ask if you like Yes please. Thanks Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 14:27:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0PJRnSd004529 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:27:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PJQN4S015027; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:26:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PJQIAq039861; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:26:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PJQGAq039828 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:26:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1Akpte-000P7g-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:26:14 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:26:00 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms References: <20040123153459.48130.qmail@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <015301c3e36f$cc028ca0$17a34ed5@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <015301c3e36f$cc028ca0$17a34ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm just trying to work out dates... I was born in 68, so I must have started Brownies in '75? My sister is three years older. I should have had a bobble hat, but my sister had a beret which was handed down to me so I wore that, we were still allowed either - so the bobble hats must have come in just that year or the year before. Berets were much better for frisbee-ing around the hall. Jean Melanie Wilson wrote >>I can have a check through my mums photo albums and see if there are any of >her in her uniform, >she was born in 49 so it's bit later but not by much. > >Thanks :) > >>That's the one! If I look very hard I might even be able to find my brown >bobble hat to go with >it. > >I think the knitted hat replaced the beret in the 70s > >Mel > > >This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received >it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose >the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of >this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the >Company, unless specifically stated. > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 15:05:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0PK5GSd004771 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:05:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PK4S4S017447; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:04:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PK4QAq052955; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:04:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PK4PAq052943 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:04:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m57.in-tch.com [216.166.191.57]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0PJgEN19904 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:42:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <401421D9.5040705@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:06:49 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm catching up with old emails, so pardon me if this point was already addressed! I just (today) saw a clear example of an earlier use of hooks to close a gown. It's a painting by Albrecht Durer, dated to 1497. My copy is the March 2002 picture of the Medieval Women calendar. It's also available online, but the detail isn't as good. Just below the sitter's bust line are two clearly visible hooks and eyes holding her (outer) gown closed to that point. From her bust and up to the neckline, the gown front is actually open in a modest vee, although the two front "corners" of the neckline are tied together with some sort of cord (almost looks like the cord is wrapped around two exterior buttons). --sue Robin Netherton wrote: > (I would love evidence of hooks in this period, but I don't know of any > documention for them before the mid-16th century or so. I'm quite willing > to be enlightened. I'm creeping out of my period here.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 15:10:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0PKAJSd004794 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:10:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PK9b4S017716; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:09:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PK9aAq054674; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:09:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PK9YAq054655 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:09:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m57.in-tch.com [216.166.191.57]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0PJlMN22078 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:47:22 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4014232F.3030202@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:12:31 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: <4002606C.31570.34852DD@localhost> <40029B4F.19185.42E5697@localhost> <400314C2.5000603@uvm.edu> In-Reply-To: <400314C2.5000603@uvm.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think I've seen other examples of the sleeve style in the first picture, but I can't recall if they're largely allegorical/fictional or actual people. I do think they're largely flemish? or am I way off base? --sue Hope Greenberg wrote: > Here's another related question: > > This variation shows up in several places: > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp123.jpg > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp75.jpg > > These are by Gerard David. I haven't collected very many images of this > style. Has anyone noticed if they are associated with "saints-wear" or > gowns that would not be worn by real people? > Any ideas about that sleeve? > > - Hope > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 16:53:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0PLrESd005420 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:53:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PLi54S023481; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:44:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PLi0JC089042; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:44:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-5.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-5.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PLhwJC088988 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:43:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from there (d14-69-189-68.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.68.189]) by pop-5.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i0PKq2U20530 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:52:02 -0600 Message-Id: <200401252052.i0PKq2U20530@pop-5.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michelle Plumb To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:52:38 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Lindisfarne monk garb in late 8th century X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, all. Does anyone know what sort of garb a Lindisfarne monk would have worn at the time of the Viking attack (793 A.D)? I'm mostly interested in the color of their robes, but any and all info would be welcome! Thanks, Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 17:30:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0PMUwSd006459 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:30:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PMUH4S026005; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:30:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PMUDJC006354; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:30:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail9.mdx.safepages.com (mail9.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PMUBJC006344 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:30:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail9.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id E781118332A; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:12:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust20.tnt4.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.207.20]) by mail9.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 67E29183257 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:12:56 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <0d0901c3e390$8af343a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <401421D9.5040705@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:59:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you have any more information on it--title of painting, etc? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" > I just (today) saw a clear example of an earlier use of hooks to close a > gown. It's a painting by Albrecht Durer, dated to 1497. My copy is the > March 2002 picture of the Medieval Women calendar. It's also available > online, but the detail isn't as good. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 17:40:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0PMebSd006571 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:40:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PMdw4S026523; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:39:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PMdvJC010208; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:39:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PMdtJC010190 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:39:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a252.in-tch.com [66.62.107.52]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0PMHjN27532 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:17:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <40144670.7030205@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:42:56 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: <401421D9.5040705@in-tch.com> <0d0901c3e390$8af343a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <0d0901c3e390$8af343a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, yeah! Sorry! According to the info provided by the calendar folks, it's: "Woman with Braided Hair" (detail. Albrech Durer. Oil on panel, German, 1497. Museum der bildenden Kunste, Leipzig. PhoteO artothek/Christoph Sandig. --sue E House wrote: > Do you have any more information on it--title of painting, etc? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Clemenger" > > >>I just (today) saw a clear example of an earlier use of hooks to close a >>gown. It's a painting by Albrecht Durer, dated to 1497. My copy is the >>March 2002 picture of the Medieval Women calendar. It's also available >>online, but the detail isn't as good. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 17:50:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0PMojSd007181 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:50:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PMnn4S026984; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:49:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PMnjJC013728; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:49:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0PMnhJC013715 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:49:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a252.in-tch.com [66.62.107.52]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0PMRXN01888 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:27:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <401448BB.6020702@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:52:43 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] gentlemans embroidered waistcoat 1766 References: <000b01c3e0d5$66884b90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000b01c3e0d5$66884b90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, my! Your embroidery is just amazing. The light in the pictures is just fine, at least on my monitor. The background fabric looks white, though...are you doing your waistcoat in white and the rest of the outfit in the blue? How much longer will it take you to finish the whole thing? How much silk floss did you have to purchase to be able to do your whole outfit? --sue, enviously (and it's dark here in Montana in the winter, too, except today because it's snowing ;o) Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > Finally i can present to you the left finished side of the embroidered waistcoat after Gustav III's wedding suit. > It is embroidered with pipers silk floss and embellished with silver spangels, the smallest you can get. > There also are the 2 pocket flaps. > It has taken me months to make it. > You can notice in the big pictures, that i didnt embroider the places where the button holes are to be. > When this is completely finished ( the left pocket flap is not finished) i shall start to make the left jacket piece. This is the one wich is going to be embroidered with silk chenille. > I beg you to forgive the bad light in the pictures, but winter in Denmark is very dark. > The waistcoat is made of silk duchesse satin. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm > > Bjarne > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 19:10:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q0AdSd010650 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:10:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q0944S001055; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:09:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q091JC043153; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:09:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q08wJC043133 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:08:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m220.in-tch.com [216.166.191.220]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0PNkmN06309 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:46:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <40145B4E.8030909@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:11:58 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns References: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting that it worked for you...it didn't for me when I tried it a few years ago. I ended up with a lot of fabric in my armpit, and not on the outside where it belonged! Of course, I was trying it with some fairly soft material (muslin scrap I happened to have handy), so that may have made a difference, but I was bummed! --sue Kirrily Robert wrote: > The pictures from PoF are also available at > http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/ so that will give you a bigger image than > what you see in Arnold's pictures. > > I have tried the sleeves from the Milanese Tailors Handbook, the ones > shaped like a P (see http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f87L.html), and > actually if you just trust and do it you'll find that it works. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 21:23:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q2NMSd012407 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:23:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q2MU4S007215; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:22:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q2MPJC089807; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:22:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q2MLJD089774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:22:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0Q2FTp8011836; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:15:30 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "H-Costume" , "SCA-GARB" , "Authentic_SCA" Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:15:34 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Site of Interest to Researchers of Italian Renn X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry about cross-posting, but some may not know of the Medici Archive site which has excerpts from their collected letters and notes about costume and textiles. I'm not sure what is happening with the project of cataloguing and translating the enormous mass of material contained in the archives (imagine if your family hadn't thrown away so much as a laundry list for 500 years and you get the picture of the size of the work). At any rate: http://www.medici.org/hum/topics/topicreports/CostumeandDress_1.html may be of interest to people on this list. Regina Romsey "The work of our Laurels will astonish people a century from now; the deeds of our knights will be forgotten in five years; and nobody knows what the Pelicans have done." Sir Alan Culross _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 22:04:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q34HSd013435 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:04:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q33Z4S008870; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 20:03:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q33XJC003586; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 20:03:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay11-dav120.bay11.hotmail.com [64.4.39.150]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q33VJC003531 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 20:03:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:46:10 -0800 Received: from 4.10.36.229 by bay11-dav120.bay11.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:46:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.10.36.229] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4002606C.31570.34852DD@localhost> <40029B4F.19185.42E5697@localhost><400314C2.5000603@uvm.edu> <4014232F.3030202@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:46:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:46:07 -0500 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jan 2004 02:46:10.0991 (UTC) FILETIME=[8E723BF0:01C3E3B6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0Q34HSd013435 Status: RO I don't know whether anyone answered this because I was without e-mail for the past 2 weeks, but just a couple days ago, I came across a donor portrait in a book I have. Fortunately, the Met has it on line: http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1.asp?dep=11&item=49%2E7%2E20a%96c I'd seen this style on saints and in tapestries, but this is the first time in a portrait. Janet I think I've seen other examples of the sleeve style in the first picture, but I can't recall if they're largely allegorical/fictional or actual people. I do think they're largely Flemish? or am I way off base? --sue Hope Greenberg wrote: > Here's another related question: > > This variation shows up in several places: > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp123.jpg > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthgdp75.jpg > > These are by Gerard David. I haven't collected very many images of this > style. Has anyone noticed if they are associated with "saints-wear" or > gowns that would not be worn by real people? > Any ideas about that sleeve? > > - Hope > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 22:26:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q3QvSd013860 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:26:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q3QI4S009694; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 20:26:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q3QHJC011177; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 20:26:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q3PLJF010825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 20:25:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0Q341KY032654 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:04:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i0Q33vWA032652 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:03:57 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Hemp, etc. in costuming (was [h-cost] Linen) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:03:56 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20040122234648.VXZQ11788.fed1mtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> <40102B77.9973.1FA66929@localhost> <0b7101c3e1e1$2d7d6670$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <0b7101c3e1e1$2d7d6670$0400a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401252203.56735.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 23 January 2004 01:46 pm, E House wrote: [snip] > Here's a quick, not too coherent summary of my even less coherent notes; > below that are a few practical notes for hemp experiments: Many thanks for passing on the information you have gathered! In my opinion, you have found an impressive quantity of material. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 22:28:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q3ScSd013923 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:28:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q3PS4S009643; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 20:25:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q3POJC010845; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 20:25:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q3PLJD010825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 20:25:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0Q2jpKY032455 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:45:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i0Q2jpMk032453 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:45:51 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Hemp, etc. in costuming (was [h-cost] Linen) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:45:51 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20040122234648.VXZQ11788.fed1mtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> In-Reply-To: <20040122234648.VXZQ11788.fed1mtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401252145.51306.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 22 January 2004 06:46 pm, mudsleidi@cox.net wrote: > >Dharmatrading also have very interesting stuff in silk and hemp. > > Speaking of hemp, does anyone use hemp fabric for any areas of costuming? > > What is the history of hemp as fabric? And ramie, and/or nettles for that > matter? I believe hemp was used by peasants in Japan, but I don't know of any other references to hemp in costuming until fairly recent modern times. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 23:10:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q4AnSd014729 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:10:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q4A74S011763; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:10:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q4A5JC027481; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:10:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp8.primus.ca (mail.tor.primus.ca [216.254.136.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q4A2JD027460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:10:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jhobbi2@po-box.mcgill.ca) Received: from dsl-207-112-125-214.tor.primus.ca ([207.112.125.214] helo=pheonix) by smtp8.primus.ca with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Akp5F-00004t-0A for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:34:09 +0000 Message-ID: <002701c3e370$c3b2c0a0$3901a8c0@pheonix> From: "Joanna Hobbins" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:26:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] On-Line Archive of Documents on Weaving X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all, I stumbled across this website and my jaw just dropped. Hundreds if not thousands of books and articles on every possible subject relating to textiles. Primarily 19th and early 20th century sources, but there are some older works as well. try not to drool to much... Joanna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 23:19:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q4JUSd014919 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:19:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q4In4S012171; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:18:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q4ImJC030758; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:18:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q4IjJC030739 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:18:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alderweb@vaxxine.com) Received: from alderweb.vaxxine.com (ppp182.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.232.182]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q3XJTS011866 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:33:20 -0500 (EST) X-RCPT-To: Message-Id: <4.3.0.20040125222853.00d4ee30@pop.vaxxine.com> X-Sender: alderweb@pop.vaxxine.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:40:27 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: David Webb In-Reply-To: <20040122192403.30676.qmail@web80511.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200401221751.i0MHp97h004518@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ? - "What Clothes Reveal" -book vs. exhibit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello: I'm cutting it pretty close, but I was wondering if anyone who has been to it knows if there is anything in the Colonial Williamsburg exhibit "What Clothes Reveal" which isn't in the book? We've been hemming and hawing about seeing it and it closes in the middle of February. It's always worth while seeing the actual garments, but it's a long drive from Canada, we have a talent for picking terrible weather to travel in, and I'm still broke from Christmas. If there are garments that aren't in the book that might help me make up my mind. Or not. Dither, dither. Sheridan Alder _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jan 25 23:36:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q4aASd015252 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:36:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q4Ym4S012853; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:34:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q4YjJC036036; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:34:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net (badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q4YhJC036019 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:34:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from madlystitching@earthlink.net) Received: from razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net (razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0Q3UaO11177 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:30:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from 209-165-34-145.jps.net ([209.165.34.145] helo=w7m1l6) by razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AkxSN-0003cB-00; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:30:35 -0800 Message-ID: <005b01c3e3bc$900661c0$9122a5d1@w7m1l6> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: , Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:29:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ELNK-Trace: 08dba192340bde6e1a6ab3b9b70940f894f5150ab1c16ac050a736d1df7ddf7425f3089909f2de7b753aae0e06822b6b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dress Ideas X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all I am posting this on two lists so sorry if you get cross posts. Anyway an old friend has asked me to make her a new Faire dress. The problem is that she has both upper and lower back problems, and some issues with the use of her hands. Because of the upper back problems she can not wear a corset. This is not a major problem seeing she is of slight figure and small in the chest. Also her lower back problems make wearing a heavy skirt very painful. And of course she is a member of court. My plan is this. Using Margo's pattern (OF COURSE) I am going to build a fitted, lightly boned bodice with wide cut shoulders a gored petticoat attached to the bodice, and then attached an over skirt also gored in black suit weight wool over the petticoat also attached to the bodice. The bodice will open up the front using large hooks and eyes. This will go over her shift. There will be a small Bumroll between the petticoat and the over skirt to give it some shape seeing she can't wear hoops. Over that will be a closed front doublet made of black cotton velveteen, trimmed in silver and black gimp. The plan is to shift the weight for the hips and lower back to the shoulders and to keep things for shifting too much when she moves. It's not perfectly period, but I think it will pass with no problems. What do you all think? Stephen Bergdahl "This ring, no other, is made by the elves, Who'd pawn their own mother to grab it themselves. Ruler of creeper, mortal, and scallop, This is a sleeper that packs quite a wallop. The Power almighty rests in this Lone Ring. The Power, alrightly, for doing your Own Thing. If broken or busted it cannot be remade If found, send to Sorhed (the postage is prepaid)." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 00:03:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q53HSd015777 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:03:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q52c4S013848; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:02:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q52bJC044664; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:02:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q52YJC044626 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:02:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AED3F230022; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:00:03 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AED24A2026A; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:00:02 -0600 Message-ID: <00c601c3e3c9$924457f0$0500a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005b01c3e3bc$900661c0$9122a5d1@w7m1l6> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress Ideas Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:02:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Stephen, I have bad upper and lower back problems. The only way I can wear a large/heavy dress or trained dress is to wear stays built in the bodice or wear a girdle that has long stays in it. Sears has a nice selection of these long-line girdles. Although my first choice is built-in stays. The girdle gets to my back after a couple of hours and wears on the hips. As for the weight of the skirt, I prefer hoops. Layers of petticoats weighs too much for me and I have a fear of tripping on them. They like to wrap around my legs. The hoops will shift the weight outward and take the weight off the hips. She will be able to walk freely and more graceful. The whole thing is that you need to balance the weight so that it is not focus on one part of the back. If you put the weight on the shoulders it will hurt her upper back, then go down the backbone. You might find an article that was published about how the costumes were designed from Elizabeth (recent version). It was discussed on the list, so check the archives. They made their costumes expressly to be lightweight for the actors. If I recall correctly, the director or fashion designer said that they didn't want their actors to suffer with the heavy weight of Elizabethan costumes. I remember a description in one article that the costumes appeared to float, they were so light. I believe FIDM has the costumes from Elizabeth. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 00:11:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q5BZSd015834 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:11:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q4kE4S013306; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q4kDJC039391; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:46:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q4kAJC039373 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:46:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (user52.net1137.oh.sprint-hsd.net [69.68.46.52]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0Q4eOW08331 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:40:24 -0600 From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ? - "What Clothes Reveal" -book vs. exhibit Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:40:02 -0500 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <005301c3e3c6$7823d5b0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <4.3.0.20040125222853.00d4ee30@pop.vaxxine.com> Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i0Q4kAJC039373 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The book is terrific and has tons of valuable information, but it doesn't *begin* to show all of the garments in the exhibit. I don't have exact figures, but I would estimate that the photos in the book show less than 20% of the items on display. I understand your concerns (long trip, weather, finances), but I heartily recommend you see it if at all possible. This isn't even my particular area of interest, and I've made four trips (only 4-4.5 hrs one way for me)to see it and would like to go one more time before it closes. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 5-7, 2004 I'm cutting it pretty close, but I was wondering if anyone who has been to it knows if there is anything in the Colonial Williamsburg exhibit "What Clothes Reveal" which isn't in the book? We've been hemming and hawing about seeing it and it closes in the middle of February. It's always worth while seeing the actual garments, but it's a long drive from Canada, we have a talent for picking terrible weather to travel in, and I'm still broke from Christmas. If there are garments that aren't in the book that might help me make up my mind. Or not. Dither, dither. Sheridan Alder _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 00:36:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q5aSSd016038 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:36:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q5Zj4S015043; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:35:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q5ZcJC055219; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:35:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q5ZbJC055204 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:35:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a238.in-tch.com [66.62.107.38]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0Q5DON26826 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:13:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4014A7DA.5050804@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:38:34 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress Ideas References: <005b01c3e3bc$900661c0$9122a5d1@w7m1l6> In-Reply-To: <005b01c3e3bc$900661c0$9122a5d1@w7m1l6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Would it help her if, say, you used some sort of suspenders to help keep the weight of her skirts more on her shoulders? --sue Stephen Bergdahl wrote: > Hello all > > I am posting this on two lists so sorry if you get cross posts. > > Anyway an old friend has asked me to make her a new Faire dress. The > problem is that she has both upper and lower back problems, and some issues > with the use of her hands. Because of the upper back problems she can not > wear a corset. This is not a major problem seeing she is of slight figure > and small in the chest. Also her lower back problems make wearing a heavy > skirt very painful. And of course she is a member of court. > > My plan is this. Using Margo's pattern (OF COURSE) I am going to build a > fitted, lightly boned bodice with wide cut shoulders a gored petticoat > attached to the bodice, and then attached an over skirt also gored in black > suit weight wool over the petticoat also attached to the bodice. The bodice > will open up the front using large hooks and eyes. This will go over her > shift. There will be a small Bumroll between the petticoat and the over > skirt to give it some shape seeing she can't wear hoops. Over that will be > a closed front doublet made of black cotton velveteen, trimmed in silver and > black gimp. > > The plan is to shift the weight for the hips and lower back to the shoulders > and to keep things for shifting too much when she moves. It's not perfectly > period, but I think it will pass with no problems. > > What do you all think? > > Stephen Bergdahl > > "This ring, no other, is made by the elves, > Who'd pawn their own mother to grab it themselves. > Ruler of creeper, mortal, and scallop, > This is a sleeper that packs quite a wallop. > The Power almighty rests in this Lone Ring. > The Power, alrightly, for doing your Own Thing. > If broken or busted it cannot be remade > If found, send to Sorhed (the postage is prepaid)." > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 01:33:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q6X3Sd017178 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:33:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q6WJ4S016664; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:32:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q6WFJC072585; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:32:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q6W7JC072533 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:32:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.133.96]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30CA06AD2B for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:32:06 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:32:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Message-ID: <401443E8.24654.3C73F3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <011001c3e1ba$a431ce40$1584ff3e@Imedia5043> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Mine was like that from late 60's/early 70's and of course the knitted > bobble hat. I'm sure my mum still has pics (in the way they take them > of you in uniform. I also seem to remember some of her and her sister > in the 50's certainly in guides and maybe brownies so I will ask if > you like OK. What's a "bobble hat". I was a US brownie, albeit in 1961-3, but we had an 8 piece "beanie" hat (with a button, not a propeller on the top. My older sister had been a girl scout 10 years before that, but she was never a brownie. (I don't think the US had that level then, just like we didn't have the "Daisy" groups, which are the kindergarten/first graders, which I think started in the 70s or 80s.) You might want to look up a biography on Juliette Low. I remember that she had several photographs of the early Girl Guide groups in the book I used to have (but which seems to have gotten lost sometime in the last 30-40 years.) It might have some of the Brownies as well. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 02:26:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q7QfSd007093 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:26:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q7Q34S018061; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q7Q0JC088709; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:26:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q7PwJC088680 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:25:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.98.244]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ATT76219; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 07:25:53 GMT Message-ID: <00a301c3e3de$6aef0500$46664ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <401443E8.24654.3C73F3@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 07:31:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >OK. What's a "bobble hat". It is a knitted hat with a pom pom in the top. I think generally knitted in the round, as I remember Brownie ones were rib knit. Also known as Benny hats in the Midlands for quite a while after a crossroads actor who worn a blue (?) one >I was a US brownie, albeit in 1961-3, US Brownies & Girl Scouts seem to have far better sites on theoir history tha we do, well done you lot ! I was in the US in 1976 as a Guide for the 1776 celebrations, the motto was " If I were a Girl Scout in 1776" with a uniform of the period designed. It was a lot of fun do any of you remember it ? Our youngest group is Rainbows not around when I was in Guiding Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 04:21:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q9L1Sd012116 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 04:21:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q9KI4S022236; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:20:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q9KDJC026789; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:20:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q9KAJC026764 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:20:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i0Q9K6A01133.; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:20:07 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:20:06 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:19:32 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] eyecandy, two late, two expensive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What gorgeous things! I love the lady's red jacket, and I know people who would love those bagpipes. >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 23/01/04 20:08:43 >>> Hi, A friend sended me this link, and i thoaght you would like to see. Sigh i wish i was a millionaire http://www.coutaubegarie.com/php/catalogue/diaporama_vente.php?id_vente=236 Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 04:23:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0Q9NsSd012127 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 04:23:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q9NJ4S022308; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:23:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q9NIJC027848; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:23:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0Q9NHJC027833 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:23:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i0Q9NGA01454.; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:23:16 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:23:15 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:22:35 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk 25/01/04 18:19:39 >>> wrote: >I think the knitted hat replaced the beret in the 70s But the beret must have replaced the knitted hats (without bobble) which we wore in the 50s. (I wore a beret as a Guide in the early 60s.) Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 05:13:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QADxSd012271 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 05:13:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QADG4S023778; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 03:13:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QADEJC041899; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 03:13:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QADCJC041890 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 03:13:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from your1p37d9kihs ([213.78.161.125]) by msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BKT69015; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:05:54 GMT Message-ID: <007401c3e3f3$fb8373c0$7da14ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:05:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >But the beret must have replaced the knitted hats (without bobble) which we wore in the 50s. (I wore a beret as a Guide in the early 60s.) that's odd the Brownie info I have dosen't mention that, the beret for Brownies came in in the 50s according to several sources, maybe the knitted hat sans bobble was the earlier one ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 08:55:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QDtDSd013901 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:55:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QDre4S028969; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 06:53:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QDrVJC003147; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 06:53:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QDrSJD003123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 06:53:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0QECIWm009831 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:12:18 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.117] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9702FFA00BA; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:43:12 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c3e414$7411ac60$755183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040122234648.VXZQ11788.fed1mtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> <200401252145.51306.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: Hemp, etc. in costuming (was [h-cost] Linen) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:58:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And what is the original fiber of barkcloth? Another plant fiber is 'pineapple silk. I have three garments of this one from the Philippines, the oldest one from the late 19th C. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 9:45 PM Subject: Re: Hemp, etc. in costuming (was [h-cost] Linen) > On Thursday 22 January 2004 06:46 pm, mudsleidi@cox.net wrote: > > >Dharmatrading also have very interesting stuff in silk and hemp. > > > > Speaking of hemp, does anyone use hemp fabric for any areas of costuming? > > > > What is the history of hemp as fabric? And ramie, and/or nettles for that > > matter? > > I believe hemp was used by peasants in Japan, but I don't know of any other > references to hemp in costuming until fairly recent modern times. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 11:02:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QG2BSd014228 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:02:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QG1F4S005393; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:01:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QG1BJC056346; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:01:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QG13JC056207 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:01:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@agesofelegance.co.uk) Received: from Imedia5043 ([62.255.132.42]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20040126075358.YQRC22499.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@Imedia5043> for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 07:53:58 +0000 Message-ID: <00a001c3e3e1$889579b0$2a84ff3e@Imedia5043> From: "Dawn Wood" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040123153459.48130.qmail@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><015301c3e36f$cc028ca0$17a34ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 07:41:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was born in 63 so it would have been 1970 when I joined but I had a bobble hat rather than a beret although remember some of the older girls or ones with big sisters had the beret which were much chicer Dawn Ages Of Elegance makers of historical clothing, uniforms and bridalwear http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk 0113 277 6716 ----- Original Message ----- > I'm just trying to work out dates... I was born in 68, so I must have > started Brownies in '75? My sister is three years older. I should have > had a bobble hat, but my sister had a beret which was handed down to me > so I wore that, we were still allowed either - so the bobble hats must > have come in just that year or the year before. > > Berets were much better for frisbee-ing around the hall. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 11:14:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QGEeSd014276 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:14:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QGDm4S006359; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:13:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QGDmJC063270; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:13:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14003.mail.yahoo.com (web14003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0QGDkJC063239 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:13:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040126161342.58302.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:13:42 GMT Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:13:42 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lindisfarne monk garb in late 8th century To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200401252052.i0PKq2U20530@pop-5.dnv.wideopenwest.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.beloit.edu/~classics/museum/WebSite/Information_LindisfarneGospelsPortraits.htm There are several books which reproduce pages from the lindifarne gospels where you can see the garments. --- Michelle Plumb wrote: > Hello, all. > > Does anyone know what sort of garb a Lindisfarne > monk would have worn at the > time of the Viking attack (793 A.D)? > > I'm mostly interested in the color of their robes, > but any and all info would > be welcome! > > Thanks, > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Seńora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 11:16:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QGG5Sd014282 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:16:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QGFN4S006483; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:15:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QGFLJC064168; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:15:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QGFJJC064149 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:15:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from matchlck@erols.com) Received: from 66-44-1-252.s506.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.1.252] helo=erols.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Al8fF-0006Qq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:28:48 -0500 Message-ID: <40155C4D.998A53F0@erols.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:28:29 -0800 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] ? - "What Clothes Reveal" -book vs. exhibit References: <005301c3e3c6$7823d5b0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO David Webb wrote: > I'm cutting it pretty close, but I was wondering if anyone who has been to > it knows if there is anything in the Colonial Williamsburg exhibit "What > Clothes Reveal" which isn't in the book? I can second the recommendation to see the "What Clothes Reveal" exhibit if you can at all make to the Williamsburg. I am even closer 2.5-3 hour drive and have seen it three times. Each time I have found something different that I did not notice the last time. I especially like the last exhibits in which Antibellium ladies "reused" 18th century dress. Your humble and obediant servant, David S Mallinak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 11:23:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QGNsSd014307 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:23:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QGN84S007146; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:23:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QGN4JC068608; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:23:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14010.mail.yahoo.com (web14010.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0QGN2JC068591 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:23:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040126161622.7628.qmail@web14010.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14010.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:16:22 GMT Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:16:22 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lindisfarne monk garb in late 8th century To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200401252052.i0PKq2U20530@pop-5.dnv.wideopenwest.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://clawww.lmu.edu/faculty/fjust/4Gosp-Lindisfarne.htm This shows the miniatures of the four evangelists. The colors the monks wore were most likely wools died with natural dyes. --- Michelle Plumb wrote: > Hello, all. > > Does anyone know what sort of garb a Lindisfarne > monk would have worn at the > time of the Viking attack (793 A.D)? > > I'm mostly interested in the color of their robes, > but any and all info would > be welcome! > > Thanks, > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Seńora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 11:40:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QGdwSd014363 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:39:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QGdE4S008376; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:39:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QGdCJC078071; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:39:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QGd7JD078008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:39:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0QGvxWm010625 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:57:59 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.103] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A044ACA40118; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:28:52 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c3e42b$98c0ba80$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040126161622.7628.qmail@web14010.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lindisfarne monk garb in late 8th century Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:43:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since these are pictures of 'saints' and not necessarily monks of the 8th century, how can we know what holy men of the period were wearing at all? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lindisfarne monk garb in late 8th century > http://clawww.lmu.edu/faculty/fjust/4Gosp-Lindisfarne.htm > > This shows the miniatures of the four evangelists. The > colors the monks wore were most likely wools died with > natural dyes. > > > > --- Michelle Plumb wrote: > > Hello, all. > > > > Does anyone know what sort of garb a Lindisfarne > > monk would have worn at the > > time of the Viking attack (793 A.D)? > > > > I'm mostly interested in the color of their robes, > > but any and all info would > > be welcome! > > > > Thanks, > > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ===== > Seńora Catalina > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 12:19:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QHJ4Sd014472 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:19:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QHI14S012102; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QHHqJC004534; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:17:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0QHHmJC004503 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:17:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040126171747.67906.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:17:47 GMT Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:17:47 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lindisfarne monk garb in late 8th century To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001101c3e42b$98c0ba80$675183d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One of the University links goes into great detail on how these particular miniatures are different from 'fantastical' clothing typical in other insular manuscripts. The depiction here is supposed to be typical of normal clothing. Most researchers of manuscripts have also stated that many depictions of saints show them wearing typical clothing, but represent it in rich colors or gold that would not be normal wear for the monks. This is not my area of expertise so you can discount it if you wish. --- Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Since these are pictures of 'saints' and not > necessarily monks of the 8th > century, how can we know what holy men of the period > were wearing at all? > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" > > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lindisfarne monk garb in late > 8th century > > > > > http://clawww.lmu.edu/faculty/fjust/4Gosp-Lindisfarne.htm > > > > This shows the miniatures of the four evangelists. > The > > colors the monks wore were most likely wools died > with > > natural dyes. > > > > > > > > --- Michelle Plumb > wrote: > > > Hello, all. > > > > > > Does anyone know what sort of garb a Lindisfarne > > > monk would have worn at the > > > time of the Viking attack (793 A.D)? > > > > > > I'm mostly interested in the color of their > robes, > > > but any and all info would > > > be welcome! > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Michelle > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > ===== > > Seńora Catalina > > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Seńora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 12:20:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QHKuSd014483 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:20:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QHKE4S012302; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:20:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QHKCJC006297; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:20:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QHK9JC006270 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:20:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id A1304E4CBB; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:58:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust249.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.249]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F244BE4CAD for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:58:31 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <0d7101c3e42d$c95dba10$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <401421D9.5040705@in-tch.com><0d0901c3e390$8af343a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <40144670.7030205@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:59:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" > According to the info provided by the calendar folks, it's: > "Woman with Braided Hair" (detail. Albrech Durer. Oil on panel, > German, 1497. Museum der bildenden Kunste, Leipzig. PhoteO > artothek/Christoph Sandig. > --sue Ahh! This, maybe? Different information, but the only thing from 1497 (or -6, or -8) that seems about right, and I think I see where the hooks would be, in better resolution: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/d/durer/1/02/03hair_d.html Speaking of which, I know it's been discussed on this type of gown before a zillion times, but has anyone come to any conclusions about those 4 vertical rows of something on either side of the front opening? Interesting new painting, on the sleeves, although... yet another Gerard David painting, so perhaps it was a bit of a thing with him. However, if you want to see weird sleeves at about this time? Look to the Dutch. Weird sleeves all over the place, very few alike, and they also wore this same general style of fitted square necked gowns. I haven't done any particular searches for this type of sleeve, but I can think of several similar types, so it wouldn't be outlandish to find more of these there. You might also want to check the bildindex, which is great for more obscure stuff: http://www.bildindex.de ('Künstler' to search by artist, 'Themen' by topic, 'Porträts' for a certain portion of portraits. Be sure to click 'vergrößern' to enlarge the images; some can theoretically be enlarged up to a 6 meg tiff, but I haven't encountered any yet) I'm pretty sure this is where I saw that other hook-and-eye image, darn it--probably by Dürer, and a sketch/engraving since I'm remembering greys--but I have no time to search for it now. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 12:40:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QHehSd014561 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:40:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QHdm4S014540; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:39:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QHdiJC019798; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:39:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QHdhJC019663 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:39:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Morses3@aol.com) Received: from Morses3@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.170.28f408dc (4539) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:34:17 -0500 (EST) From: Morses3@aol.com Message-ID: <170.28f408dc.2d46a999@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:34:17 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] ? - "What Clothes Reveal" -book vs. exhibit To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6021 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/26/04 11:16:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, matchlck@erols.com writes: > I was wondering if anyone who has been to > >it knows if there is anything in the Colonial Williamsburg exhibit "What > >Clothes Reveal" which isn't in the book? > I only live about 45 minutes from Williamsburg, saw the exhibit when it first opened, THEN bought the book, and now have been back five more times......Every time I go, I see different details or learn something new that I missed on a previous visit. More than anything, as good as the book is, I don't think there is anything that can compare to standing next to a dress for example and being able to see it from all angles, seeing how the fabrics reflect the light (the ones with silver threads were incredible!), or get a sense of the scale. Good luck--I hope you're able to make it! Perry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 12:46:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QHkISd014579 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:46:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QHja4S015050; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:45:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QHjXJC025967; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:45:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QHjVJC025929 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:45:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.169] (pm5-169.eos.net [205.133.149.169]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QHjTgg026378 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:45:29 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:46:04 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401261721.i0QHKwJD006816@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: lindisfarne gospels X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > http://www.beloit.edu/~classics/museum/WebSite/Information_LindisfarneGospelsP > ortraits.htm > > There are several books which reproduce pages from the > lindifarne gospels where you can see the garments. > But these are not pictures of monks, they're pictures of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The clothes are several different colors, and look rather Byzantine to me. > This shows the miniatures of the four evangelists. The > colors the monks wore were most likely wools died with > natural dyes. > But as we've talked about here before, that doesn't mean that the colors in the manuscript are the same as the colors of the clothes. > > One of the University links goes into great detail on > how these particular miniatures are different from > 'fantastical' clothing typical in other insular > manuscripts. The depiction here is supposed to be > typical of normal clothing. Normal cuts and folds, not simply fanciful patterns (such as in the Book of Kells), but it doesn't say that they are the normal clothing of Lindisfarne monks. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I don't think there's any evidence either way that these clothes are what the monks wore. Sorry I don't know more. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 14:05:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QJ5HSd014747 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:05:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QJ4D4S023367; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:04:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QJ48JC094780; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:04:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QJ42JC094722 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:04:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.129.151]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE126ABA8 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:04:00 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:04:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Message-ID: <4014F424.2157.2ECDDA7@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00a301c3e3de$6aef0500$46664ed5@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >OK. What's a "bobble hat". > > It is a knitted hat with a pom pom in the top. I think generally > knitted in the round, as I remember Brownie ones were rib knit. Also > known as Benny hats in the Midlands for quite a while after a > crossroads actor who worn a blue (?) one They sounds like our "ski hats" or what some Canadians call a "tuke". > I was in the US in 1976 as a Guide for the 1776 celebrations, the > motto was " If I were a Girl Scout in 1776" with a uniform of the > period designed. It was a lot of fun do any of you remember it ? I was too busy with medical school in 1976 to notice much of anything to do with the Centennial. However, one year at Girl Scout camp (in the late 60's) we had a group of "Girl Scouts" from other countries as part of some exchange program. They all were in one unit and we didn't really get to see much of them except at meal time and flag time. > Our youngest group is Rainbows not around when I was in Guiding I suspect that here they would want to avoid calling them "Rainbows" because that's the name of a completely separate group here: Rainbow Girls. It's an offshoot of the Masons (but it doesn't have quite the same sponsorship rules that Jobs Daughters have.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 14:48:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QJmkSd014906 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:48:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QJlv4S027122; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:47:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QJltJC025030; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:47:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QJllJC024971 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:47:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810+JAGae91741)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA04274 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:15:20 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:15:20 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you are looking for WWII and earlier UK Brownie, Rosebud and Scouting uniform pics, I seem to remember that Elizabeth II and Margaret Rose had their own "troops"(as they call them on this side of the pond)and any biog of either or both that covers their childhoods extensively might have pictures of them in uniform, Margaret Rose was shown in a Brownie Guide uniform, in one pic I recall seeing from my own U.S. Brownie and Junior Scouting days. Also, if you find Guide books from the era, there might be pics of the uniforms, both past and (that) present. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kate M Bunting Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 7:36 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms I was a Brownie in the late 1950s, but don't have any photos. I can only remember that I wore a brown dress with "military" pockets and a brown knitted cap. >>> MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk 23/01/04 13:16:20 >>> I have mine from 35 years ago how old does that make me ! I'm looking for WW2 and the very early Rosebuds ones in preferance but my daughter is doing the history of them so any would do, I have NO photos of me in it however, but I'll probably dress her up and take some, it is the brown cotton dress with pochets yellow cross tie type ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 14:53:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QJrgSd014915 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:53:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QJqd4S027558; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:52:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QJqcJC028245; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:52:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QJqaJD028209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:52:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0QKBUWm011415 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:11:30 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.127] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD9CA2DC004A; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:42:20 -0500 Message-ID: <002501c3e446$a0631ec0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:57:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cherry red velvet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0QJrgSd014915 Status: RO My big find at an antique mall this past weekend was a scant bolt of cherry red silk velvet, 36" wide by 5 yards. Any suggestions besides a sleeveless coat c1806, or perhaps something ala Poiret or perhaps Erte for graceful use? Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 15:11:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QKB1Sd015002 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:11:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QKAC4S029281; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:10:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QKA8JC042576; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:10:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f68.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.68]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QKA7JC042518 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:10:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jessicastier@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:50:56 -0800 Received: from 66.75.159.37 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:50:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.75.159.37] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jessicastier@hotmail.com From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:50:56 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jan 2004 19:50:56.0850 (UTC) FILETIME=[B6DFC320:01C3E445] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Everyone, I've been kind of out of it lately (I'm about to have a baby any day now, and am trying to get everything in order). So you may have discussed this already. Sorry, if so. I saw the movie Cold Mountain last night. Honestly, I was very disapointed in the story line, but was enamoured by the costumes. This is not my period at all and was wondering what you civil war era buffs thought of the dresses? I noticed that alot of Nicole Kidman's dresses were in two parts, a skirt and a seperate bodice. Was this a common occurance? That seems more practical then having a single dress, but I wasn't really aware of this style for this period. Thanks. :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software — optimizes dial-up to the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 15:26:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QKQ8Sd015078 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:26:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QKPF4S000770; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:25:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QKPBJC052781; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:25:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QKP7JC052685 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:25:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A70558F009A; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:22:29 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A704DE601DC; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:22:28 -0600 Message-ID: <007901c3e44a$7303af40$0500a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:24:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jessica, Congrads on the new coming baby. I haven't seen the film yet... I have tried three times, but the last show is at 7PM. Too early for me. We like the late show so all the teenagers are not in the theater. I know the parasols are period correct. Our instructor Marna Jean made them for the film. She is teaching a class on them and it started today. I read her first lesson last night and saw all of her documentation. It looks pretty solid. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 15:41:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QKfTSd015124 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:41:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QKeh4S002210; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:40:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QKefJC065815; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:40:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QKebJC065719 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:40:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.29.4fbfc0b9 (3932) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:35:13 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <29.4fbfc0b9.2d46d401@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:35:13 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] cherry red velvet To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/26/2004 2:53:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: > or perhaps something ala Poiret or perhaps Erte for graceful use? > Make a dolman sleeved jacket and print an Art Neuvo design in metallic around the hem and sleeves and you can wear it with your Fortuni Delphos gown. :-P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 15:56:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QKurSd015156 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:56:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QKu24S003829; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QKu0JC076103; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:56:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QKtuJC076079 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:55:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0QJCvK28640 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:12:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.167.46] (helo=wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AlCAH-0001tP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:12:53 -0500 Message-ID: <28231948.1075144373690.JavaMail.root@wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:12:53 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lindisfarne monk garb in late 8th century Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Michelle Plumb wrote: > > > > Does anyone know what sort of garb a Lindisfarne > monk would have worn at the > time of the Viking attack (793 A.D)? > > I'm mostly interested in the color of their > robes, > but any and all info would > be welcome! Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: >http://clawww.lmu.edu/faculty/fjust/4Gosp-Lindisfarne.htm > > This shows the miniatures of the four evangelists. The > colors the monks wore were most likely wools dyed with > natural dyes. (This painting of St. John in the Lindisfarne Gospels is one of my favorite illuminations. I imagine the caption for it as St. John saying, "But wait! I haven't finished it yet!" as the eagle in the background flies away with the book....) There are illuminations, which I _think_ are more or less contemporary, of the life of St. Cuthbert that show his monks doing various things (rowing boats, carrying the saint's body, etc.). They are all wearing dark gray to dark brown full-length tunics, and, I believe, leather belts (don't have the pictures in front of me). (BTW, one of the commonest mistakes people make doing historical monastic clothing is to assume that rope belts are universal -- they aren't, they're actually not very common until the 1200s when St. Francis of Assisi chose them for the Friars Minor.) A simple tunic is more or less what I would expect to see on monks at this period, and they probably wear a linen under-tunic as well, which doesn't show. Until relatively late in the Middle Ages, monks' and friars' tunics seem to have been mostly made of _undyed_ wool -- the darkish brown to blackish wool from "black" sheep for the dark ones, unbleached white for those who wore white habits (1200s and later, I think the Cistercians were the first to choose white). I think there's a reference in our archives not too long ago to the specification that monks' robes be "nigra bruna", meaning either color or any shade in between. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 16:05:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QL57Sd015183 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:05:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QL4A4S004501; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:04:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QL49JC081732; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:04:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QL46JC081642 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:04:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.78.4f1a5cf4 (3866) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:58:50 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <78.4f1a5cf4.2d46d98a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:58:50 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/26/2004 3:11:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, jessicastier@hotmail.com writes: I noticed that alot of Nicole Kidman's dresses were in two parts, a skirt and a seperate bodice. Was this a common occurance? That seems more practical then having a single dress, but I wasn't really aware of this style for this period. I take you mean the fabrics were not the same? I do know of examples with a skirt and 2 bodices--one day and one evening--but these are matching fabric and you probably would not be able to tell on screen. I'll let someone more versed in the period than I weigh in as to the contrasting bodice and skirt look. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 16:05:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QL5rSd015187 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:05:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QL514S004578; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QL50JC082348; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:05:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QL4OJC081905 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:04:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i0QL4Nj9018492 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:04:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040126160212.01d654e8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:04:26 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lindisfarne monk garb in late 8th century In-Reply-To: <28231948.1075144373690.JavaMail.root@wamui08.slb.atl.earth link.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Monks in 8th century would be Franciscan? If so, you can read the Rule of the order. Or the Rule for whichever order it is... That will give you the information straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. No mucking about guessing what is going on in a picture... Bridgette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 16:45:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QLj5Sd015333 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:45:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QLiC4S008215; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:44:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QLi8JC009378; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:44:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QLi6JD009339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:44:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0QM30Wm011919 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:03:00 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.103] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7BB55A300EA; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:33:47 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c3e456$32203dc0$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <29.4fbfc0b9.2d46d401@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cherry red velvet Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:48:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another good idea, but I already have the trim....alas, not The gown, but I bet I can find something. Thank you. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] cherry red velvet > In a message dated 1/26/2004 2:53:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, > rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: > > > or perhaps something ala Poiret or perhaps Erte for graceful use? > > > > Make a dolman sleeved jacket and print an Art Neuvo design in metallic around > the hem and sleeves and you can wear it with your Fortuni Delphos gown. > > :-P > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 16:53:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QLrPSd015345 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:53:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QLpL4S008985; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:51:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QLpJJC014567; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:51:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QLpEJD014543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:51:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0QMAAWm011935 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:10:10 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.103] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A96A58A300EA; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:40:58 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01c3e457$3382be80$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <78.4f1a5cf4.2d46d98a@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:56:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have both one and two-piece dresses of the period. And one of the two piece items did come with both bodices, in fact, there were three bodices in the set. This dress is royal blue silk taffeta with a border of about 5" embroidered in black. One of the evening bodices matches the skirt and the other is in black with blue fringe edging the short sleeve. The day bodice has pagoda sleeves that are bordered in black. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > In a message dated 1/26/2004 3:11:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jessicastier@hotmail.com writes: > I noticed that alot of Nicole Kidman's dresses were in two parts, a skirt > and a seperate bodice. Was this a common occurance? That seems more > practical then having a single dress, but I wasn't really aware of this > style for this period. > I take you mean the fabrics were not the same? I do know of examples with a > skirt and 2 bodices--one day and one evening--but these are matching fabric > and you probably would not be able to tell on screen. I'll let someone more > versed in the period than I weigh in as to the contrasting bodice and skirt look. > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 17:39:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QMdTSd015511 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:39:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QMbM4S015217; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:37:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QMbKJC049136; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:37:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QMbHJC049061 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:37:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.1cb.18842a86 (3858) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:32:00 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1cb.18842a86.2d46ef5f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:31:59 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] cherry red velvet To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/26/2004 4:45:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: > Another good idea, but I already have the trim....alas, not The gown, but I > bet I can find something. Thank you. > I was joking really. But those Fortuni pleated slinky things with the simply cut, stenciled velvet coats over them do look REAL good, don't they? Cherry red is very popular in the 18th century but I don't know what you'd make. A Lady's jacket?.... like the yellow silk one Glen Close wears in Dangerous Liaisons [perhaps more wintery....like trimmed in fur]...with a brocade skirt. Then there's always a very plain [let the beautiful fabric do the work] severe 1840s off the shoulder frock. How much yardage did you say you had? Someone stop me.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 17:52:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QMqpSd015554 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:52:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QMpx4S017339; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:51:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QMpsJC060075; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:51:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20725.mail.yahoo.com (web20725.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0QMpqJC060034 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:51:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040126224511.21831.qmail@web20725.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.197] by web20725.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:45:11 PST Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:45:11 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lindisfarne monk garb in late 8th century To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200401252052.i0PKq2U20530@pop-5.dnv.wideopenwest.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Michelle Plumb wrote: > > Does anyone know what sort of garb a Lindisfarne > monk would have worn at the > time of the Viking attack (793 A.D)? > > I'm mostly interested in the color of their robes, > but any and all info would be welcome! > Michelle What Benedict said in the Sancta Regula about colors of clothes was that the monks shouldn't complain about them. That's about it. Old & new, heavier and lighter weight clothing, has some detail in the Rule of St. Benedict. Benedictines (& most monks were Benedictine) are mostly depicted in dark brown-black long sleeved long tunics, with scapulars (narrow ponchos strips front & back), & hoods. Useless for the holy isle, unfortunately. Ann in CT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 18:12:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QNCISd015625 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:12:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QNBR4S019338; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QNBPJC075039; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:11:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0QNB9JC074749 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:11:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oh/fS4tfz7BYFKioaJx+rIc=">; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:10:30 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JLUV8VLG; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:10:30 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:02:53 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lindisfarne monk garb in late 8th century Message-ID: <20040126.151018.1668.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-8,10,12-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Benedictine, I'm guessing. St. Francis wasn't born until the 1200's. The Rule of St Benedict is available at Catholic book stores. Arlys On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:04:26 -0500 M Stewart writes: > > > Monks in 8th century would be Franciscan? If so, you can read the > Rule of the order. Or the Rule for whichever order it is... That will > give you the information straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. > No mucking about guessing what is going on in a picture... > > Bridgette ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 18:35:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QNZCSd015698 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:35:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QNYK4S021466; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:34:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QNYEJC092735; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:34:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QNYAJC092672 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:34:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion (213-78-96-121.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.96.121]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id ATW22011; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:34:03 GMT Message-ID: <01a101c3e465$dbb4e0c0$fd6c4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:40:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >If you are looking for WWII and earlier UK Brownie, Rosebud and Scouting uniform pics, I seem to remember that Elizabeth II So far the Royal guiding pics seem to be far fancier than normal >and Margaret Rose Do you mean Princess Margaret ? >Also, if you find Guide books from the era, there might be pics of the uniforms, both past and (that) present. Yes I'm trying that too, thanks :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 18:46:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QNkWSd018106 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:46:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QNjZ4S022390; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:45:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QNjYJC001851; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:45:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au [143.216.236.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QNjSJC001687 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:45:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tonkin.rebecca@saugov.sa.gov.au) Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au OUTGOING (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0QNeJSc008788 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:10:19 +1030 (CST)' Received: from sagemsbb006.saugov.sa.gov.au (sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au [143.216.59.14]) by adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au INCOMING (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0QNe7Ak008576 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:10:07 +1030 (CST)' Received: by sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:09:53 +1030 Message-ID: <1016FD8698B3F14DB829819C6B856EC7598E3F@sagemsg0005.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au> From: "Tonkin, Rebecca (PIRSA-SARDI)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:09:37 +1030 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain Cc: Subject: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi: I am looking for information/opinions etc on the kind of headdress seen in this picture: http://www.costumes.org/history/quicherat/Dameensurcot.JPG To me, it looks like the lady is wearing a net over vertical plaits (hidden), some sort of veil, cap or band , and a goffered veil. The top of her head looks very square, but I suspect that since the lady is a statue from a chimney (sculptee sur une cheminee), she's probably got a mantlepiece on her head... I have however found some images of squared nebula headdresses - about 1390's. There are 2 in "Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince", one a corbel, very stylised, the other from the Despencer-Montacute tomb. Newton attibutes the squareness to the vertical plaits underneath. She also does NOT think they were worn in France! Hmmm...this statue is French... "Medieval Costume in England and France" has a drawing from the brass of Sir R. de Malyns (one of his wives) also showing a squared nebula veil, Fig. 147., using zig-zags for the ruffles. I'm thinking of making a similar headdress, but I'd like to know 1)- is Quicherat reliable? 2)- does my idea of what she's wearing make sense - goffered veil over netted/reticulated vertical plaits. Thanks for any help, Rebecca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 18:48:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0QNm3Sd018462 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:48:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QNlA4S022547; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:47:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QNl9JC002993; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:47:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0QNkEJC002247 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:46:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4528C42615 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:57:10 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4015A7A1.8040000@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:49:53 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cherry red velvet References: <002501c3e446$a0631ec0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <002501c3e446$a0631ec0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > My big find at an antique mall this past weekend was a scant bolt of cherry red silk velvet, 36" wide by 5 yards. Any suggestions besides a sleeveless coat c1806, or perhaps something ala Poiret or perhaps Erte for graceful use? > Kathleen I think what I would do is lay it out on the floor or the bed and roll around in it in hedonistic pleasure. :) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 19:05:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R056Sd020982 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:05:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R04M4S024046; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:04:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R04IJC015725; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:04:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R04FJC015679 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:04:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f7f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.127]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E8E3547FF5C for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:04:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001701c3e469$19dd0500$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:04:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] shocking pink in 18th century. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0R056Sd020982 Status: RO Hi, I was relaxing looking in my books today, and i suddently stumbled because here there was a proof. Jane Ashlefords Art of Dress page 182 i quote: Detail of a dress c. 1810 made from an intensely vivid pink silk, almost the same shade as Schiaparellis "shocking pink". Tha taaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! Well it is not proof of 18th century i know, but very close. I really wonderede somebody said it didnt excist, because i have seen it in embroidery many times. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 20:19:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R1J8Sd021162 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:19:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R1Gt4S029867; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:16:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R1GqJC063124; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:16:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R1GmJD063080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:16:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0R1DVPp016225 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:13:31 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:13:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4015BBF9.2030809@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:16:41 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress References: <1016FD8698B3F14DB829819C6B856EC7598E3F@sagemsg0005.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au> In-Reply-To: <1016FD8698B3F14DB829819C6B856EC7598E3F@sagemsg0005.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Rebecca, After you asked about this on the Milliner's list, I asked here for other square nebuly-ish pictures. Annora had this additional information: If you have access to Visual History of Costume, 14th and 15th centuries, there are three tomb effigies pictured that might fit the bill. I wouldn't exactly describe them as nebuly but a couple of them are honeycombed. They're plates 25, 28, and 29. 25 is the only one that's squared but the fluting on the veiling looks pretty much like the Arnolfini veiling; not as stylized as the other two. 28 and 29 are honeycombed (two different styles) but they're inverted U's rather than being squared. Dates range from 1360-1380. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pr? Argent What's the point of holding a Dean sign and shouting ''DEAN! DEAN! DEAN!'' for three straight hours in the bitter cold when the only person who can see or hear you is holding a Kerry sign and shouting ''KERRY! KERRY! KERRY!''? Does anybody's mind get changed? After a while, do these people become convinced by each other and swap signs? -- Dave Barry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 20:19:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R1JnSd021167 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:19:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R1J14S000114; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R1J1JC064528; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:19:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R1IwJC064504 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:18:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (syr-24-58-121-78.twcny.rr.com [24.58.121.78]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i0R1IuNI009573 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:18:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040126201713.00b84e18@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:19:33 -0500 To: "Historical Costume" From: Mari Stewart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Benedictine monks... was Lindisfarne... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You're right... Benedictine Monks, most likely. From the Catholic Encyclopedia via... http://www.osb.org/gen/habit.html The color of the habit is not specified in the Rule but it is conjectured that the earliest Benedictines wore white or grey, as being the natural colour of undyed wool. For many centuries, however, black has been the prevailing color, hence the term "Black Monk" has come to signify a Benedictine. Some independent or reform congregations have adopted a distinctive colour; e.g., the Camaldolese, Cistercians, and Olivetans wear white. The Sylvestrine's habit used to be blue. Bridgette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 21:03:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R23ZSd021234 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:03:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R22p4S002974; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:02:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R22mJC089466; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:02:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0R22kJC089448 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:02:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.119.194.188 with login) by smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2004 01:56:05 -0000 Message-ID: <004301c3e478$b9b2b110$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:56:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I liked some aspects of the costumes (they got the shape right on the dome hoopskirts, the lightweight cotton prints for summer) and not some others (the fitted sleeves instead of full bishop/pagoda sleeves). Just don't get me started on the hair... - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 21:17:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R2HaSd021265 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:17:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R2Gn4S003662; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:16:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R2GkJC097572; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:16:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R2GgJC097512 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:16:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.143.20d62700 (4196) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:11:18 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <143.20d62700.2d4722c6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:11:18 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink in 18th century. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/26/2004 7:05:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > really wonderede somebody said it didnt excist, And I'm sure they were wearing it in India and China at the time too. You KNOW somebody in the Western Hemisphere was wearing it as well, even if it wasn't the most popular color. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 21:21:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R2L8Sd021293 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:21:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R2KT4S003847; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:20:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R2KSJC099814; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:20:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R2KMJC099709 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:20:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.19c.1f72fd2a (4196) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:20:12 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <19c.1f72fd2a.2d4724dc@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:20:12 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/26/2004 9:04:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, kendra@tweedlebop.com writes: > the lightweight cotton prints for summer I read somewhere everything is either linen or wool....because these were the two fibers the self sufficient commutity produced. I know some fabrics were woven for the film and some of the prints were borrowed from contemporary and local sources [like wall paper] and printed on plain linen. I can't remember where I read it. Ann Roth is a great designer, though I don't think of her first for non 20th century periods. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 21:54:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R2s2Sd021490 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:54:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R2r44S005785; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R2qvJC019107; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:52:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0R2qsJC019079 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:52:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.119.194.188 with login) by smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2004 02:46:14 -0000 Message-ID: <012101c3e47f$baee8840$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002501c3e446$a0631ec0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cherry red velvet Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:46:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd make a two-fabric 1880s day or evening dress out of it -- velvet and satin were really popular combinations in that decade. Usually they'd combine two different fabrics (eg velvet and satin) of the same or similar colors, or two colors of the same fabric (eg blue and yellow satin). - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 22:14:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R3EuSd021641 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:14:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3Cv4S006880; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:12:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3CtJC029631; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:12:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3CpJD029606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:12:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0R3VoWm013624 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:31:50 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.109] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4C9BA430118; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:02:33 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c3e484$20d8c900$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002501c3e446$a0631ec0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> <4015A7A1.8040000@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cherry red velvet Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:17:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you!!! I must try that. Kathleen,(typing this in my purple satin pjs) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] cherry red velvet > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > My big find at an antique mall this past weekend was a scant bolt of cherry red silk velvet, 36" wide by 5 yards. Any suggestions besides a sleeveless coat c1806, or perhaps something ala Poiret or perhaps Erte for graceful use? > > Kathleen > > > I think what I would do is lay it out on the floor or the bed and roll > around in it in hedonistic pleasure. :) > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 22:21:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R3LJSd021670 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:21:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3KB4S007410; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:20:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3KAJC033578; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:20:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3K6JC033508 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:20:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-157-61.client.comcast.net [24.21.157.61]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0R3K0s14222 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:20:00 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:27:31 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: Subject: [h-cost] magnifying glasses X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, Can anyone give recommendations for a magnifying glass for studying textiles? This is for studying structure and measuring. I would appreciate any advice on best types and practices. :D Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 22:26:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R3QXSd021704 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:26:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3PG4S007780; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:25:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3PEJC036229; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:25:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3P9JD036105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:25:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0R3i7Wm013678 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:44:07 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.109] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7ABDFF60120; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:14:51 -0500 Message-ID: <002501c3e485$d8d92a80$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002501c3e446$a0631ec0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> <012101c3e47f$baee8840$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cherry red velvet Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:30:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since I have been working in the '80s on another project, that was kind of my first thought when I saw the fabric in the shop. On getting it home and off the wretched cardboard roll, wrapped in newspaper, it was obvious that the gown would have to be really fancy...it is that sort of fabric. And too, the weight is all wrong for that period. I have a couple of dresses of the period and this velvet is much too supple . The earliest that I have seen this fabric made up is for gowns after , say,1906-8. I do appreciate the suggestions. I want to make something important out of it and something I will get to wear. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] cherry red velvet > I'd make a two-fabric 1880s day or evening dress out of it -- velvet and > satin were really popular combinations in that decade. Usually they'd > combine two different fabrics (eg velvet and satin) of the same or similar > colors, or two colors of the same fabric (eg blue and yellow satin). > > - Kendra > http://demode.tweedlebop.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 22:43:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R3hdSd021802 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:43:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3gS4S008919; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:42:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3gNJC072151; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:42:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav57.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3gJJC072076 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:42:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:24:58 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav57.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 03:24:58 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] magnifying glasses Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:25:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2004 03:24:58.0594 (UTC) FILETIME=[24380420:01C3E485] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe a jewlers loupe? You can get one anywhere just about. ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Althea Turner" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 26, 2004 10:27 PM Subject: [h-cost] magnifying glasses > Hello, > > Can anyone give recommendations for a magnifying glass for studying > textiles? This is for studying structure and measuring. I would > appreciate any advice on best types and practices. :D > > Althea Turner _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jan 26 22:52:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R3qlSd021835 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:52:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3pp4S009521; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:51:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3poJC076762; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:51:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R3plJC076709 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:51:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-157-61.client.comcast.net [24.21.157.61]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0R3pfW22760 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:51:42 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:59:13 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] magnifying glasses Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <2B08FCDC-507D-11D8-B9E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I have a lovely antique jeweler's loupe. I am looking for recommendations on linen tester magnifying glasses. There are a number of brands and strengths, and I'd like to know what is recommended. Thank you! Althea On Monday, January 26, 2004, at 07:25 PM, Bice d'Este wrote: > Maybe a jewlers loupe? You can get one anywhere just about. > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Althea Turner" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: January 26, 2004 10:27 PM > Subject: [h-cost] magnifying glasses > > >> Hello, >> >> Can anyone give recommendations for a magnifying glass for studying >> textiles? This is for studying structure and measuring. I would >> appreciate any advice on best types and practices. :D >> >> Althea Turner > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 01:29:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R6TDSd022493 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:29:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R6SM4S017651; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:28:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R6SAJC021236; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:28:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay11-dav57.bay11.hotmail.com [64.4.39.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R6S8JC021191 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:28:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:10:44 -0800 Received: from 4.10.36.229 by bay11-dav57.bay11.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 06:10:44 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.10.36.229] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <401421D9.5040705@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:10:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:10:37 -0500 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2004 06:10:44.0556 (UTC) FILETIME=[4C7960C0:01C3E49C] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0R6TDSd022493 Status: RO The best picture of hook and eye closures is Jean Fouquet's portrait of the Court Jester Gonella, c. 1445. The only web reproduction I can find is not very good http://www.abcgallery.com/F/fouquet/fouquet14.html but it's a fairly famous picture and is reprinted in a number of books. A better reproduction, besides not having that awful yellow cast, shows clearly 2 hooks on one side of the collar and 1 eye on the other side and they look very like modern hooks and eyes. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 01:45:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R6jYSd022527 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:45:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R6io4S018432; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:44:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R6imJC027853; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:44:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R6idJC027806 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:44:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.129.86]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 679EB6DBAF for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:44:38 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:44:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] magnifying glasses Message-ID: <40159859.27603.56E4EF2@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <2B08FCDC-507D-11D8-B9E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have a lovely antique jeweler's loupe. I am looking for > recommendations on linen tester magnifying glasses. There are a > number of brands and strengths, and I'd like to know what is > recommended. Thank you! Mine isn't specifically a "linen tester" glass, but is one that was recommended for textile conservators. It is a 10X magnifyer. (It's very cute. It folds up into a very small "box" shape. However, it's so small that right now it's on the missing list. I have to remember the "safe place" I put it. Sigh.) Unfortunately, I don't remember a brand name on it. You might want to ask Asha (at Pastiche) as she was the one who pointed it out as being what I needed. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 02:27:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0R7RpSd011119 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 02:27:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R7Qu4S020127; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:26:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R7QtJC044739; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:26:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from siscom.net (counterstrike.siscom.net [209.251.2.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0R7QpJC044716 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:26:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drea@nospam) Received: from shell.siscom.net (unverified [209.251.2.80]) by siscom.net (BoogerMAIL) with ESMTP id 11386719 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:59:24 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:01:12 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] magnifying glasses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040126235913.A82825@shell.siscom.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Althea, I have the niftiest pocket magnifying glass/microscope that my husband got me--$10 from radio shack, with 60x to 100 x magnification and its own lighting. It's really something! When I got it I spent the afternoon glued to various pieces of drapery and upholstery and clothing. It may be a bit too close-up for your needs...but it was a fun gift, nonetheless. Drea On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Althea Turner wrote: > Hello, > > Can anyone give recommendations for a magnifying glass for studying > textiles? This is for studying structure and measuring. I would > appreciate any advice on best types and practices. :D > > Althea Turner > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 08:08:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RD8PSd017145 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:08:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RD7e4S001971; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 06:07:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RD7VJC078251; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 06:07:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RD7TJD078232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 06:07:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0RDQZWm016626 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:26:35 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.118] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A021ED6A0118; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:57:05 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c3e4d7$3099e740$765183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1cb.18842a86.2d46ef5f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cherry red velvet Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:12:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Only 5 yds, and fabric is only 36" wide. I would still question the weight of the hand for this early period.A jacket could be interesting... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] cherry red velvet > In a message dated 1/26/2004 4:45:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, > rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: > > > Another good idea, but I already have the trim....alas, not The gown, but I > > bet I can find something. Thank you. > > > > I was joking really. But those Fortuni pleated slinky things with the simply > cut, stenciled velvet coats over them do look REAL good, don't they? > > Cherry red is very popular in the 18th century but I don't know what you'd > make. A Lady's jacket?.... like the yellow silk one Glen Close wears in > Dangerous Liaisons [perhaps more wintery....like trimmed in fur]...with a brocade > skirt. > > Then there's always a very plain [let the beautiful fabric do the work] > severe 1840s off the shoulder frock. > > How much yardage did you say you had? > > Someone stop me.... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 09:42:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0REgXSd017575 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:42:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0REeO4S005982; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0REeKJC018188; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:40:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0REeGJC018100 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:40:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:20:02 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:19:47 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Cold Mountain Costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The museum I have done volunteer work at has several Civil War era, and post-CW era dresses that are in two pieces, altho both parts are made of matching fabrics. One of the oldest came in the last time I was there. We are pretty sure it is 1850's, might even be late 1840's. Bodice and skirt is separate. They are made out of a very lightweight wool with the most atrocious printed strips, as in they are so bad they have their own charm :). It is in to bad of a shape to display but will be kept for research. This really isn't my favorite era but I have to admit it is fun to be able to see the inside of the garments and get a close-up look at details such as the lace. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 09:51:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0REp5Sd017617 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:51:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0REoH4S006612; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:50:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0REoGJC023043; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:50:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0REoBJC022939 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:50:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.160.2af5baa5 (14374) for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:44:46 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <160.2af5baa5.2d47d35e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:44:46 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/26/2004 9:22:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: read somewhere everything is either linen or wool....because these were the two fibers the self sufficient commutity produced. I Self sufficient community? By the mid-19th century? Not very likely!! Cheap mass-produced cottons were available everywhere by then. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 10:48:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RFm8Sd017876 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:48:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RFl64S010689; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:47:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RFksJC056530; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:46:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RFkqJC056468 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:46:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.5f.444f884d (3924) for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:40:47 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <5f.444f884d.2d47e07f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:40:47 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/27/2004 9:50:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, AnnBWass@aol.com writes: > Self sufficient community? By the mid-19th century? Not very likely!! > Cheap mass-produced cottons were available everywhere by then. > See....that's what I thought too when I read it....unless they were Amish or high in the mountains or something. And even then... Now if it were a mill town everyone might have something made from the mill but even then..... And I remember where I saw this. In The New Yorker. A "film" issue. It had these one page blurbs of certain film crew positions scattered throughout the issue, like one for "Production Designer", one for "Location Manager", one for "Costume Designer"....you get the idea. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 11:13:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RGD6Sd018022 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:13:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RG9p4S012663; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:09:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RG9lJC071241; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:09:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav55.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RG9kJC071164 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:09:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:52:25 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav55.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:52:24 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5f.444f884d.2d47e07f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:52:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2004 15:52:25.0133 (UTC) FILETIME=[8ED6CDD0:01C3E4ED] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For the record I'm unsure of the dates but Nathaniel Hawthorne lived on a commune sometime in the 1800's. It was called Brook Farm. B~ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: January 27, 2004 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > In a message dated 1/27/2004 9:50:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, > AnnBWass@aol.com writes: > > > Self sufficient community? By the mid-19th century? Not very likely!! > > Cheap mass-produced cottons were available everywhere by then. > > > > See....that's what I thought too when I read it....unless they were Amish or > high in the mountains or something. And even then... Now if it were a mill > town everyone might have something made from the mill but even then..... > > And I remember where I saw this. In The New Yorker. A "film" issue. It had > these one page blurbs of certain film crew positions scattered throughout the > issue, like one for "Production Designer", one for "Location Manager", one for > "Costume Designer"....you get the idea. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 12:03:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RH2xSd018277 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:02:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RH0J4S017524; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:00:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RH0FMc007074; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:00:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RH0DMc006991 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:00:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 548453 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:00:07 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:00:07 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4015BBF9.2030809@thibault.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO MILLINERS' LIST?!?!? Where, what, historic and modern? LynnD On 1/26/04 5:16 PM, "Cynthia Virtue" wrote: > Hi Rebecca, > > After you asked about this on the Milliner's list, I asked here for > other square nebuly-ish pictures. > > Annora had this additional information: > > If you have access to Visual History of Costume, 14th and 15th > centuries, there are three tomb effigies pictured that might fit the bill. > I wouldn't exactly describe them as nebuly but a couple of them are > honeycombed. They're plates 25, 28, and 29. 25 is the only one that's > squared but the fluting on the veiling looks pretty much like the > Arnolfini veiling; not as stylized as the other two. 28 and 29 are > honeycombed (two different styles) but they're inverted U's rather than > being squared. Dates range from 1360-1380. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 12:30:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RHUHSd018409 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:30:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RHQo4S020262; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:26:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RHQmMc026984; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:26:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav22.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RHQaMc026749 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:26:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:09:12 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav22.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:09:11 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:09:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2004 17:09:12.0197 (UTC) FILETIME=[48DCFB50:01C3E4F8] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Milliners/ ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats http://www.cafeshops.com/kristalori This month featuring the Lucrezia line ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "h costume" Sent: January 27, 2004 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress > MILLINERS' LIST?!?!? Where, what, historic and modern? > LynnD > > > On 1/26/04 5:16 PM, "Cynthia Virtue" > wrote: > > > Hi Rebecca, > > > > After you asked about this on the Milliner's list, I asked here for > > other square nebuly-ish pictures. > > > > Annora had this additional information: > > > > If you have access to Visual History of Costume, 14th and 15th > > centuries, there are three tomb effigies pictured that might fit the bill. > > I wouldn't exactly describe them as nebuly but a couple of them are > > honeycombed. They're plates 25, 28, and 29. 25 is the only one that's > > squared but the fluting on the veiling looks pretty much like the > > Arnolfini veiling; not as stylized as the other two. 28 and 29 are > > honeycombed (two different styles) but they're inverted U's rather than > > being squared. Dates range from 1360-1380. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 12:32:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RHWHSd018414 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:32:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RHVg4S020791; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:31:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RHVfMc030468; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:31:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0RHVXMc030347 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:31:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040127173132.30196.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:31:32 PST Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:31:32 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm interested , too!! Do Tell, please! Albra (with ears perked to attention) Lynn Downward wrote: MILLINERS' LIST?!?!? Where, what, historic and modern? LynnD On 1/26/04 5:16 PM, "Cynthia Virtue" wrote: > Hi Rebecca, > > After you asked about this on the Milliner's list, I asked here for > other square nebuly-ish pictures. > > Annora had this additional information: > > If you have access to Visual History of Costume, 14th and 15th > centuries, there are three tomb effigies pictured that might fit the bill. > I wouldn't exactly describe them as nebuly but a couple of them are > honeycombed. They're plates 25, 28, and 29. 25 is the only one that's > squared but the fluting on the veiling looks pretty much like the > Arnolfini veiling; not as stylized as the other two. 28 and 29 are > honeycombed (two different styles) but they're inverted U's rather than > being squared. Dates range from 1360-1380. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 12:42:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RHg0Sd018447 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:42:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RHVX4S020753; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:31:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RHVWMc030324; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:31:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0RHVRMc030273 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:31:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040127173126.28089.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:31:26 PST Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:31:26 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm interested , too!! Do Tell, please! Albra (with ears perked to attention) Lynn Downward wrote: MILLINERS' LIST?!?!? Where, what, historic and modern? LynnD On 1/26/04 5:16 PM, "Cynthia Virtue" wrote: > Hi Rebecca, > > After you asked about this on the Milliner's list, I asked here for > other square nebuly-ish pictures. > > Annora had this additional information: > > If you have access to Visual History of Costume, 14th and 15th > centuries, there are three tomb effigies pictured that might fit the bill. > I wouldn't exactly describe them as nebuly but a couple of them are > honeycombed. They're plates 25, 28, and 29. 25 is the only one that's > squared but the fluting on the veiling looks pretty much like the > Arnolfini veiling; not as stylized as the other two. 28 and 29 are > honeycombed (two different styles) but they're inverted U's rather than > being squared. Dates range from 1360-1380. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeme@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 12:47:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RHlfSd018468 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:47:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RHc14S021614; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RHc0Mc035172; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:38:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RHbuMc035085 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:37:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 548669 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:37:50 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:37:50 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you. LynnD On 1/27/04 9:09 AM, "Bice d'Este" wrote: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Milliners/ > > > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > http://www.cafeshops.com/kristalori > This month featuring the Lucrezia line > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lynn Downward" > To: "h costume" > Sent: January 27, 2004 12:00 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress > > >> MILLINERS' LIST?!?!? Where, what, historic and modern? >> LynnD >> >> >> On 1/26/04 5:16 PM, "Cynthia Virtue" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Rebecca, >>> >>> After you asked about this on the Milliner's list, I asked here for >>> other square nebuly-ish pictures. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 14:42:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RJg4Sd018809 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:42:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RJeB4S004301; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:40:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RJe4dr029441; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:40:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RJdxdr029358 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:39:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0RGixK04839 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:44:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from dialup-64.158.112.14.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([64.158.112.14] helo=4gxif) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AlWJi-0003Dx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:43:58 -0500 Message-ID: <012f01c3e4f4$e71d0de0$0e709e40@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40159859.27603.56E4EF2@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] magnifying glasses Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:44:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The link below will take you directly to the page for linen count magnifiers at Widget Supply, where I got mine. Bargain prices, quick delivery. They have lots of other magnifiers, plus lots of other cool tools. -Helen/Aidan http://www.widgetsupply.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=magnifier-linen-count _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 15:30:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RKUPSd019010 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:30:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RKTk4S009049; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:29:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RKTfOI075643; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:29:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RKTcOI075601 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:29:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i0RKTcM8021092 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:29:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040127152804.00b7ef08@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:29:41 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for information X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi folks... I'm looking for something totally out of my area... 10-12th century Viking or Rus hats... Can anyone point me to a resource? Or tell me how to reach the milliners list? Thanks, Bridgette Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 16:05:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RL5hSd019170 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:05:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RL0v4S012947; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:00:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RL0p5j098619; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:00:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0RL0n5j098590 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:00:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040127205401.72081.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:54:01 PST Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:54:01 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO thanks mucho! Albra Bice d'Este wrote: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Milliners/ ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats http://www.cafeshops.com/kristalori This month featuring the Lucrezia line ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "h costume" Sent: January 27, 2004 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress > MILLINERS' LIST?!?!? Where, what, historic and modern? > LynnD > > > On 1/26/04 5:16 PM, "Cynthia Virtue" > wrote: > > > Hi Rebecca, > > > > After you asked about this on the Milliner's list, I asked here for > > other square nebuly-ish pictures. > > > > Annora had this additional information: > > > > If you have access to Visual History of Costume, 14th and 15th > > centuries, there are three tomb effigies pictured that might fit the bill. > > I wouldn't exactly describe them as nebuly but a couple of them are > > honeycombed. They're plates 25, 28, and 29. 25 is the only one that's > > squared but the fluting on the veiling looks pretty much like the > > Arnolfini veiling; not as stylized as the other two. 28 and 29 are > > honeycombed (two different styles) but they're inverted U's rather than > > being squared. Dates range from 1360-1380. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 16:06:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RL6hSd019179 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:06:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RL1f4S013075; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:01:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RL1f5j099210; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:01:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RL1a5j099105 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:01:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-157-61.client.comcast.net [24.21.157.61]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0RL1Uw01037 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:01:30 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:09:00 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for information (on Rus hats) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040127152804.00b7ef08@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Message-Id: <07440B90-510D-11D8-87D1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I would like to second the question on Rus hats. My Pelican is Rus and I'd like to surprise her with a spiff new chapeau for her birthday. :) My knowledge on this area is VERY limited. Althea On Tuesday, January 27, 2004, at 12:29 PM, M Stewart wrote: > > > Hi folks... I'm looking for something totally out of my area... > > 10-12th century Viking or Rus hats... > > Can anyone point me to a resource? > Or tell me how to reach the milliners list? > > Thanks, > Bridgette > > > > Mari Stewart > Cornell University > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 16:10:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RLACSd019231 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:10:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RL984S014151; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:09:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RL975j005054; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:09:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav46.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RL925j004950 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:09:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:36:17 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav46.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 20:36:17 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040127152804.00b7ef08@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for information Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:36:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2004 20:36:17.0825 (UTC) FILETIME=[371D5910:01C3E515] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Milliners/ ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats http://www.cafeshops.com/kristalori This month featuring the Lucrezia line ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 27, 2004 3:29 PM Subject: [h-cost] looking for information > > > Hi folks... I'm looking for something totally out of my area... > > 10-12th century Viking or Rus hats... > > Can anyone point me to a resource? > Or tell me how to reach the milliners list? > > Thanks, > Bridgette > > > > Mari Stewart > Cornell University > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 16:27:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RLRNSd019331 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:27:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RLIq4S015293; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:18:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RLIp5j012623; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:18:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0RLIm5j012608 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:18:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040127211848.10611.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:18:48 PST Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:18:48 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] magnifying glasses To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <012f01c3e4f4$e71d0de0$0e709e40@4gxif> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Helen--- thanks mucho for the link to the great site--they've got all sorts of fun toys:) Albra Helen Pinto wrote: The link below will take you directly to the page for linen count magnifiers at Widget Supply, where I got mine. Bargain prices, quick delivery. They have lots of other magnifiers, plus lots of other cool tools. -Helen/Aidan http://www.widgetsupply.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=magnifier-linen-count _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 16:29:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RLTLSd019337 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:29:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RLGU4S015082; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:16:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RLGQ5j010754; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:16:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web02-imail.rogers.com (web02-imail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.76]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RLG85p010459 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:16:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([63.138.108.196]) by fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040126232128.TZCJ163351.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:21:28 -0500 Message-ID: <003901c3e463$2ebba310$c46c8a3f@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040126160212.01d654e8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lindisfarne monk garb in late 8th century Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:21:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [63.138.108.196] using ID at Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:21:28 -0500 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > Monks in 8th century would be Franciscan? If so, you can read the Rule > of the order. Or the Rule for whichever order it is... That will give > you the information straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. No > mucking about guessing what is going on in a picture... Benedictine, not Franciscan (the Franciscan order started in the 13th century, and they were mendicant friars--which in practical terms meant they were not cloistered and lived off of alms--not monks). You would also be surprised how UNdescriptive most of the early Rules were. The Dominicans, who used a modified form of the Rule of St. Augustine, said more or less that anything that was donated to them was usable. We tend to think of habit = uniform, where originally the Latin "habitus" meant simply "clothes." The main thing originally was that the clothing be simple and distinctly NOT laymen's garb. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 16:46:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RLkNSd019389 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:46:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RLNq4S015837; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:23:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RLNp5j016393; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:23:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav17.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RLNo5j016281 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:23:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:06:28 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav17.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:06:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040127205401.72081.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:06:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2004 21:06:28.0218 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E3165A0:01C3E519] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not a problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 27, 2004 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress > thanks mucho! > Albra > > Bice d'Este wrote: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Milliners/ > > > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > http://www.cafeshops.com/kristalori > This month featuring the Lucrezia line > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lynn Downward" > To: "h costume" > Sent: January 27, 2004 12:00 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] square nebula or goffered or reticulated headdress > > > > MILLINERS' LIST?!?!? Where, what, historic and modern? > > LynnD > > > > > > On 1/26/04 5:16 PM, "Cynthia Virtue" > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Rebecca, > > > > > > After you asked about this on the Milliner's list, I asked here for > > > other square nebuly-ish pictures. > > > > > > Annora had this additional information: > > > > > > If you have access to Visual History of Costume, 14th and 15th > > > centuries, there are three tomb effigies pictured that might fit the > bill. > > > I wouldn't exactly describe them as nebuly but a couple of them are > > > honeycombed. They're plates 25, 28, and 29. 25 is the only one that's > > > squared but the fluting on the veiling looks pretty much like the > > > Arnolfini veiling; not as stylized as the other two. 28 and 29 are > > > honeycombed (two different styles) but they're inverted U's rather than > > > being squared. Dates range from 1360-1380. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 17:17:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RMHZSd019603 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:17:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RLso4S018689; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:54:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RLsk5j040283; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:54:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RLsd5j040189 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:54:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.131.126]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 224206AF72 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:54:36 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:54:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] magnifying glasses Message-ID: <40166D95.2516.8AF41A0@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <012f01c3e4f4$e71d0de0$0e709e40@4gxif> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The link below will take you directly to the page for linen count > magnifiers at Widget Supply, where I got mine. Bargain prices, quick > delivery. They have lots of other magnifiers, plus lots of other cool > tools. > -Helen/Aidan > > http://www.widgetsupply.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Cod > e=magnifier-linen-count This looks a lot like mine, but mine is black with white measurement lines along the edges so that you have some scale despite the magnification. I can't tell if this one has scale indicator markings. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 17:38:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0RMciSd019721 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:38:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RMYG4S022651; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RMY85j069311; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:34:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0RMY65j069286 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:34:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lee@gw.retro.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id i0RML5U20745 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:21:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:21:05 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200401272221.i0RML5U20745@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] magnifying glasses Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try American Science And Surplus. They have loupes, magnifiers, and linen testers (a "giant" one that that's freestanding and has a 4" field): http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=21&category=193 That's the start of the magnifier category. Among the cute things they have is a cheap loupe that's on a wire headband for a whopping $3.95. I've got that and one of the Bouche&Lombe doublet loupes. I really ought to buy myself a set of the eyeglass frame mounted ones. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 19:09:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0S098Sd020254 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 19:09:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S0874S000908; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:08:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S07w5j032070; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:07:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S07r5k031984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:07:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from there (d14-69-189-68.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.68.189]) by pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id i0RNMTY6022847 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:22:29 -0600 Message-Id: <200401272322.i0RNMTY6022847@pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michelle Plumb To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lindisfarne monk garb in late 8th century Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:19:49 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My, my question certainly started an interesting discussion! Many thanks to those who replied. It looks like a natural colored wool is the way to go. "Beast color" And thanks for all the links. I'm browsing the rules of Sts. Benedict and Francis, and I'm not even Catholic! Fascinating read. Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 21:36:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0S2a3Sd020828 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:36:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S2ZE4S010152; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 19:35:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S2ZA5j003935; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 19:35:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0S2Z55j003888 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 19:35:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.116.252.230 with login) by smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2004 02:28:21 -0000 Message-ID: <001001c3e546$65787390$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040114081730.41598.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Royal Ontario Museum patterns Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:28:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a quick update on the ROM dress patterns: someone had mentioned that they were the same patterns as in Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_. I just received the 1700-75 pattern in the mail today, and the patterns were actually taken from dresses in the ROM's collection. - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jan 27 22:24:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0S3OwSd021202 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 22:24:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S3O04S012741; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 20:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S3Nt5j026103; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 20:23:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S3Nr5j026087 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 20:23:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alderweb@vaxxine.com) Received: from alderweb.vaxxine.com (ppp136.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.232.136]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S3NpRu019777 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 22:23:52 -0500 (EST) X-RCPT-To: Message-Id: <4.3.0.20040127222600.00d81950@pop.vaxxine.com> X-Sender: alderweb@pop.vaxxine.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 22:32:00 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: David Webb In-Reply-To: <005301c3e3c6$7823d5b0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> References: <4.3.0.20040125222853.00d4ee30@pop.vaxxine.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] url and "What Clothes Reveal" -book vs. exhibit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to everyone for the feedback on "What Clothes Reveal" - even though I feel driven to do a bad "James Dean" imitation - "Can't you see you're tearing me apart?" Also this notable antique costume collector and dealer has some cool images up on her webpage: http://www.coraginsburg.com Sheridan Alder (the other, southern Ontario, Sheridan) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 02:00:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0S70VSd021908 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 02:00:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S6xc4S023051; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:59:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S6xY5j024906; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:59:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S6xW5j024888 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:59:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0RLap906471 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:36:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Alaku-0003i3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:28:20 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for information Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:28:36 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3e51c$8688c0a0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bad Girls! Another vice for me! Thanks, didn't know there was a Milliners group! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 03:53:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0S8r0Sd015559 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 03:53:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S8pW4S026965; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:51:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S8pT5j070589; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:51:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0S8pR5j070571 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:51:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.130]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Alju9-0003dl-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:14:29 -0800 Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0RLnK922939 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:49:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Alb53-00002W-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:49:09 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:49:25 -0700 Message-ID: <000101c3e51f$6efa4c30$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Darn them! Anyone seen Rayon/Cotton Velvet before? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0S8r0Sd015559 Status: RO Phoenix Textiles http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/fabric-apparel---fashion-fabrics-just -arrived-velvet.htmlwww. Has just gotten some of this stuff in..sounds like it would have a loverly drape. Have any of you held this stuff in your hot little hands? Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 10:33:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SFXHSd017490 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:33:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SFW84S013703; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:32:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SFVu5j036408; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:31:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14001.mail.yahoo.com (web14001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0SFVs5j036359 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:31:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040128152512.99763.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:25:12 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:25:12 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Darn them! Anyone seen Rayon/Cotton Velvet before? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000101c3e51f$6efa4c30$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I made a skirt out of some black that I got from C&C fabrics. It is a nice weight and feel. It has this funny velcro effect when I put the pieces together for sewing. --- "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > Phoenix Textiles > > http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/fabric-apparel---fashion-fabrics-just > -arrived-velvet.htmlwww. > > > > Has just gotten some of this stuff in..sounds like > it would have a loverly > drape. > > Have any of you held this stuff in your hot little > hands? > > > Sg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Seńora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ________________________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save Ł80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 11:39:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SGdbSd018106 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:39:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SGcW4S020293; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:38:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SGcC5j084724; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:38:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SGc85j084626 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:38:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 305FA42615 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:49:12 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4017E65D.20902@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:42:05 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns References: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> <40145B4E.8030909@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <40145B4E.8030909@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > Interesting that it worked for you...it didn't for me when I tried it a > few years ago. I ended up with a lot of fabric in my armpit, and not on > the outside where it belonged! > > Kirrily Robert wrote: >> >> I have tried the sleeves from the Milanese Tailors Handbook, the ones >> shaped like a P (see http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f87L.html), and >> actually if you just trust and do it you'll find that it works. Kirrily, Which side of the sleeve seam did you put into the armpit? I'm trying this in muslin and like Sue's it is just not working. I have far too much fabric bunched under the arm. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 12:24:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SHOnSd018959 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:24:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SHMn4S026541; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:22:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SHMk5j022855; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:22:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SHMc5k022755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:22:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0SHg3Wm026537 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:42:03 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.121] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD6FA48600E0; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:12:15 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c3e5c4$0435eee0$795183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> <40145B4E.8030909@in-tch.com> <4017E65D.20902@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:27:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have not done this garment, but looking at 7 gowns on the rack, everyone is different; the unifying construction mode is that all are tightly pleated to the uppersides of the shoulder area. Is there supposed to be a slit at the elbow break? Most of the gowns in my book of academical garb show fantastic shapes, mostly very long for the ordinary arm but are accessed for functional wear in this manner. The 'p' sleeve strikes me that for the time period, the curved shape acted in some sort of gusset method of sleeve ease. Don't know if this muddies the problem or not. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns > Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > Interesting that it worked for you...it didn't for me when I tried it a > > few years ago. I ended up with a lot of fabric in my armpit, and not on > > the outside where it belonged! > > > > Kirrily Robert wrote: > >> > >> I have tried the sleeves from the Milanese Tailors Handbook, the ones > >> shaped like a P (see http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f87L.html), and > >> actually if you just trust and do it you'll find that it works. > > Kirrily, > > Which side of the sleeve seam did you put into the armpit? I'm trying > this in muslin and like Sue's it is just not working. I have far too > much fabric bunched under the arm. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 12:27:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SHRLSd018965 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:27:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SHQV4S027380; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:26:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SHQS5j026028; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:26:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SHQQ5k025992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:26:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0SHjqWm026586 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:45:52 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.121] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE547E0800DC; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:16:04 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c3e5c4$8d302800$795183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5f.444f884d.2d47e07f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:31:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, Bronson Alcott's group. This earlier period was also the time of the Shakers and Harmonists, other utopian movements. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > For the record I'm unsure of the dates but Nathaniel Hawthorne lived on a > commune sometime in the 1800's. It was called Brook Farm. > > B~ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: January 27, 2004 10:40 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > In a message dated 1/27/2004 9:50:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > AnnBWass@aol.com writes: > > > > > Self sufficient community? By the mid-19th century? Not very likely!! > > > Cheap mass-produced cottons were available everywhere by then. > > > > > > > See....that's what I thought too when I read it....unless they were Amish > or > > high in the mountains or something. And even then... Now if it were a mill > > town everyone might have something made from the mill but even then..... > > > > And I remember where I saw this. In The New Yorker. A "film" issue. It had > > these one page blurbs of certain film crew positions scattered throughout > the > > issue, like one for "Production Designer", one for "Location Manager", one > for > > "Costume Designer"....you get the idea. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 12:43:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SHhTSd019087 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:43:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SHgX4S029513; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:42:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SHgU5j039250; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:42:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf21.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf21.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.221]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SHgN5j039044 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:42:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Received: from laptop ([68.185.170.30]) by mxsf21.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.10/8.12.8) with SMTP id i0SH3UBG021720 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:03:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Message-ID: <004e01c3e5c0$a94d41c0$1eaab944@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:03:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan standing collars X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO About 1/4 of teh way down on this page http://vintagesewing.info/1940s/42-mpd/mpd-07.html there is a pattern for an Elizabethan standing collar. It uses 1/4" slashes brought together to make the collar stand without any other supports. Does anyone know if this is at all period? ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 12:46:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SHkRSd019111 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:46:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SHjN4S029824; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:45:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SHjL5j041527; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:45:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav28.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SHjH5j041428 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:45:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:45:11 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav28.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:45:11 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5f.444f884d.2d47e07f@aol.com> <001501c3e5c4$8d302800$795183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:45:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2004 17:45:11.0566 (UTC) FILETIME=[7A5C4AE0:01C3E5C6] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO rather bad luck for hawthorne. He hated it never wrote a word and left in disgust. I'm unsure of the Alcott refrence but I'd be more interested if it was....I knew he had a few issues as well. (Alcott) I think I merely wanted to point oout that the idea of communal living is old very old and what we'd consider "hippies" have always been here in one way shape form or another. The Farm in Summerville Tennesee stands out in my mind as being one of the longer running ones in the US being nearly 35 IIRC. ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb http://my.lulu.com/kristalori Elizabethan Ladies Calendar Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 28, 2004 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > Ah, Bronson Alcott's group. This earlier period was also the time of the > Shakers and Harmonists, other utopian movements. > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bice d'Este" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > For the record I'm unsure of the dates but Nathaniel Hawthorne lived on a > > commune sometime in the 1800's. It was called Brook Farm. > > > > B~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 13:35:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SIZHSd019337 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:35:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SIYd4S005069; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:34:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SIYZ5j081510; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:34:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SIYX5j081401 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:34:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@infotrope.net) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A8AB36BA0 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:34:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AluW5-000323-00 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:34:21 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns In-Reply-To: <4017E65D.20902@reddawn.net> References: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> <40145B4E.8030909@in-tch.com> <4017E65D.20902@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:34:21 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > Which side of the sleeve seam did you put into the armpit? I'm trying > this in muslin and like Sue's it is just not working. I have far too > much fabric bunched under the arm. We did it with the seam runniing down the outside of the sleeve, so that the bulge of the P-shaped pattern piece sits over the upper/outer arm (around the deltoid, if you know your anatomy). K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 13:36:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SIaLSd019343 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:36:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SIYx4S005118; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:35:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SIYw5j081814; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:34:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SIYr5k081747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:34:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0SIsIWm027074 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:54:18 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.122] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE58843500DC; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:24:24 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c3e5ce$18f5ee20$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5f.444f884d.2d47e07f@aol.com><001501c3e5c4$8d302800$795183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:39:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I guess I need to see this film. Having read the book, I do not recall any such farm community. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > rather bad luck for hawthorne. He hated it never wrote a word and left in > disgust. I'm unsure of the Alcott refrence but I'd be more interested if it > was....I knew he had a few issues as well. (Alcott) I think I merely wanted > to point oout that the idea of communal living is old very old and what we'd > consider "hippies" have always been here in one way shape form or another. > The Farm in Summerville Tennesee stands out in my mind as being one of the > longer running ones in the US being nearly 35 IIRC. > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: January 28, 2004 12:31 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > Ah, Bronson Alcott's group. This earlier period was also the time of the > > Shakers and Harmonists, other utopian movements. > > Kathleen > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > For the record I'm unsure of the dates but Nathaniel Hawthorne lived on > a > > > commune sometime in the 1800's. It was called Brook Farm. > > > > > > B~ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 13:42:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SIg2Sd019396 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:42:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SIeW4S005790; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:40:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SIeU5j086580; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:40:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SIeO5k086462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:40:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0SIxnWm027137 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:59:49 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.122] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFA517950140; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:29:57 -0500 Message-ID: <001e01c3e5ce$df9c6c20$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <160.2af5baa5.2d47d35e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:45:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On the subject of cotton production for the masses, I picked up two very good books last summer that were very illuminating to me and some of you might find useful. Textiles in Early New England: Design, Production, and Consumption, Pub Boston U.Dublin Seminar and A New Order of Things (How the textile industry transformed New England) Paul E. Rivard,U Press of New England,Hanover and London. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > In a message dated 1/26/2004 9:22:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, > AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > read somewhere everything is either linen or wool....because these were the > two fibers the self sufficient commutity produced. I > Self sufficient community? By the mid-19th century? Not very likely!! > Cheap mass-produced cottons were available everywhere by then. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 14:00:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SJ0nSd019512 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:00:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SIxo4S007709; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:59:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SIxj5j002151; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:59:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav43.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SIxf5j002029 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:59:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:41:48 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav43.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:41:47 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5f.444f884d.2d47e07f@aol.com><001501c3e5c4$8d302800$795183d1@rmitchellras> <001101c3e5ce$18f5ee20$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:42:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2004 18:41:48.0192 (UTC) FILETIME=[62E84A00:01C3E5CE] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Guess we should have changed the topic. The original remark that the Brook Farm references that I made had to do with someone expressing doubt on "self sufficient" communities existing this early in America's history. I made an example of Brook Farm which IIRC was pre 1860. Bice ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb http://my.lulu.com/kristalori Elizabethan Ladies Calendar Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 28, 2004 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > I guess I need to see this film. Having read the book, I do not recall any > such farm community. > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bice d'Este" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 12:45 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > rather bad luck for hawthorne. He hated it never wrote a word and left in > > disgust. I'm unsure of the Alcott refrence but I'd be more interested if > it > > was....I knew he had a few issues as well. (Alcott) I think I merely > wanted > > to point oout that the idea of communal living is old very old and what > we'd > > consider "hippies" have always been here in one way shape form or another. > > The Farm in Summerville Tennesee stands out in my mind as being one of the > > longer running ones in the US being nearly 35 IIRC. > > ============================= > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > www.swapking.com/hats > > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: January 28, 2004 12:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > Ah, Bronson Alcott's group. This earlier period was also the time of the > > > Shakers and Harmonists, other utopian movements. > > > Kathleen > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > > To: "Historical Costume" > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:52 AM > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > > > > For the record I'm unsure of the dates but Nathaniel Hawthorne lived > on > > a > > > > commune sometime in the 1800's. It was called Brook Farm. > > > > > > > > B~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 14:28:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SJSoSd019652 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:28:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SJRF4S010316; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:27:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SJRE5j024026; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:27:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SJQb5j023493 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:26:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f97.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.151]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 696B84801C7 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:26:30 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001001c3e5d4$a879fc20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004e01c3e5c0$a94d41c0$1eaab944@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan standing collars Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:26:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. The cut in a strip of material with small darts to make the neck curve it is the same thing they did back then. So it is authentic as such Bjarne ----- Original Messae ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 6:03 PM Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan standing collars > About 1/4 of teh way down on this page > http://vintagesewing.info/1940s/42-mpd/mpd-07.html there is a pattern for an > Elizabethan standing collar. It uses 1/4" slashes brought together to make > the collar stand without any other supports. Does anyone know if this is at > all period? > > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > A room without books is like a body without a soul > ---Cicero > > lotsofteapots@charter.net > ********************** > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 14:31:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SJUxSd019662 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:31:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SJTj4S010589; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:29:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SJTi5j026057; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:29:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SJTe5k026023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:29:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0SJn6Wm027502 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:49:06 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.107] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB3531610106; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:19:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c3e5d5$c39c48e0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <401057E5.5040104@reddawn.net> <40145B4E.8030909@in-tch.com> <4017E65D.20902@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:34:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Looking at the shape, that was my first thought, so that you would get the multitude of small, tight gathers that seem to be a hall-mark of this garment. Thank you for the information! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirrily Robert" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's "scholars" gowns > Dawn wrote: > > Which side of the sleeve seam did you put into the armpit? I'm trying > > this in muslin and like Sue's it is just not working. I have far too > > much fabric bunched under the arm. > > We did it with the seam runniing down the outside of the sleeve, so that > the bulge of the P-shaped pattern piece sits over the upper/outer arm > (around the deltoid, if you know your anatomy). > > K. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 14:43:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SJhQSd019741 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:43:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SJeE4S011699; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:40:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SJe65j034392; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:40:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SJdn5k034137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:39:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0SJxEWm027567 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:59:14 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.107] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD9269F8004C; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:29:22 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c3e5d7$2c411d20$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5f.444f884d.2d47e07f@aol.com><001501c3e5c4$8d302800$795183d1@rmitchellras><001101c3e5ce$18f5ee20$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:44:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am interested in this particular Farm that you mention. it is not one that I had heard of. As a New Englander by birth and education, I tend to have blinders on when it comes to other parts of the country that were developing on parallel lines as other formative movements were under way in the 'cradle of liberty. I Grew up with knowledge of the Shakers and NE Utopian societies. However, until I came to Pa., I confess that I had never heard of the Harmonists. Shame on me! So tell me, if I 'google' The Farm in Summerville, TN., will I get some idea of how this community began and operated? Kathleen----- Original Message ----- From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > Guess we should have changed the topic. The original remark that the Brook > Farm references that I made had to do with someone expressing doubt on "self > sufficient" communities existing this early in America's history. I made an > example of Brook Farm which IIRC was pre 1860. > > Bice > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: January 28, 2004 1:39 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > I guess I need to see this film. Having read the book, I do not recall > any > > such farm community. > > Kathleen > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 12:45 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > rather bad luck for hawthorne. He hated it never wrote a word and left > in > > > disgust. I'm unsure of the Alcott refrence but I'd be more interested if > > it > > > was....I knew he had a few issues as well. (Alcott) I think I merely > > wanted > > > to point oout that the idea of communal living is old very old and what > > we'd > > > consider "hippies" have always been here in one way shape form or > another. > > > The Farm in Summerville Tennesee stands out in my mind as being one of > the > > > longer running ones in the US being nearly 35 IIRC. > > > ============================= > > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > > www.swapking.com/hats > > > ============================= > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > > > To: "Historical Costume" > > > Sent: January 28, 2004 12:31 PM > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > > > > Ah, Bronson Alcott's group. This earlier period was also the time of > the > > > > Shakers and Harmonists, other utopian movements. > > > > Kathleen > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > > > To: "Historical Costume" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:52 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the record I'm unsure of the dates but Nathaniel Hawthorne lived > > on > > > a > > > > > commune sometime in the 1800's. It was called Brook Farm. > > > > > > > > > > B~ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 14:54:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SJskSd019834 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:54:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SJpO4S012800; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:51:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SJpM5j043430; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:51:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SJpD5j043241 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:51:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.83.408b593 (3932) for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:39:33 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <83.408b593.2d4969f5@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:39:33 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: "Self Sufficiency"; was Cold Mountain Costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As to "self-sufficient" communities, someone made a reference to the costume designer's referring to the farm community in the film as "self sufficient." I don't deny that there were the occasional "utopian" communities who may have consciously tried to be self sufficient. What I question is that there were any communities so isolated that they HAD to be self sufficient as they did not have access to mass-produced goods. Just don't think that was a fact by the mid-19th century in the U.S. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 15:14:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SKEkSd019921 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:14:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SKDY4S015195; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SKDT5j061258; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:13:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SKDE5j061096 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:13:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i0SKD2V8022711 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:13:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040128145910.01d79080@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:13:06 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "Self Sufficiency"; was Cold Mountain Costumes In-Reply-To: <83.408b593.2d4969f5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Ann wrote: in regards to mid-19th century US ... >What I question is that there were any communities so isolated >that they HAD to be self sufficient as they did >not have access to mass-produced goods. Just don't think that was >a fact by the mid-19th century in the U.S. Ah... I need to disagree with that statement. respectfully, of course. ; > Many of the mountain communities of Appalachia (from Northern Ga. to Kentucky and W. Va) may never have seen or heard information from the "rest of the world". As an example... not 15 miles from where I used to live there is a plaque erected to the last casualty of the Civil War. A Young U.S. Army officer killed in the 1890's by some confederate soldiers who hadn't heard that the war was over. I'm not saying that these areas were totally devoid of contact with the outside world. But contact was sparse, unreliable and usually more than most folks of the area could afford. So yes, the areas and communities were pretty self-sufficient. Or they made do without. There are many places where I hail from that only got electricity in the late-60's, and only as a part of an effort started by LBJ to help the poor of rural Appalachia. A Sears catalog was a "major" event in my father's childhood. That's the 1940's. And my little cabin that I lived for quite a while in a few years ago, had no telephone and no central heat... (just a stove) OCC... looking for more information on Russian or Viking caps... have leads on Birka and Jorvik... any other ideas out there? Bridgette who hails from MeatCamp, NC... just a hog waller away from PottersTown and BannersElk... Mari Stewart Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 15:34:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SKYnSd020011 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:34:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SKWB4S017268; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:32:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SKWA5j076441; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:32:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav45.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SKW05j076250 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:32:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:58:57 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav45.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:58:57 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5f.444f884d.2d47e07f@aol.com><001501c3e5c4$8d302800$795183d1@rmitchellras><001101c3e5ce$18f5ee20$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> <001901c3e5d7$2c411d20$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:59:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2004 19:58:57.0824 (UTC) FILETIME=[2A621200:01C3E5D9] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It seems The Farm's website is down. I know they do their own web pages so they may be revamping. You can see the store site here http://www.farmcatalog.com/cgi-bin/Web_store/web_store.cgi As it says on the page : The Farm is an intentional, spiritual community founded in 1971, based on the principles of nonviolence and a respect for the earth. It is still opertational and they do accept visitors but you must call first so someone can meet you at the gate. The other Commune I spoke of was brook Farm. Nathaniel Hawthorne lived there for a year. Now as a New Englander I'm sure you've heard of Nathaniel? Here are some sites with his experiences there: http://www.heureka.clara.net/art/hawthorn.htm http://www.bartleby.com/65/ha/HawthornN.html and to google: http://www.google.com/search?q=nathaniel+hawthorne+and+brook+farm For Bronson Alcott and Fruitlands: http://www.shepherd.edu/transweb/fruitlands.htm I hope this helps. ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb http://my.lulu.com/kristalori Elizabethan Ladies Calendar Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 28, 2004 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > I am interested in this particular Farm that you mention. it is not one > that I had heard of. As a New Englander by birth and education, I tend to > have blinders on when it comes to other parts of the country that were > developing on parallel lines as other formative movements were under way in > the 'cradle of liberty. I Grew up with knowledge of the Shakers and NE > Utopian societies. However, until I came to Pa., I confess that I had never > heard of the Harmonists. Shame on me! > So tell me, if I 'google' The Farm in Summerville, TN., will I get some idea > of how this community began and operated? > Kathleen----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bice d'Este" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 1:42 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > Guess we should have changed the topic. The original remark that the Brook > > Farm references that I made had to do with someone expressing doubt on > "self > > sufficient" communities existing this early in America's history. I made > an > > example of Brook Farm which IIRC was pre 1860. > > > > Bice > > ============================= > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > www.swapking.com/hats > > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: January 28, 2004 1:39 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > I guess I need to see this film. Having read the book, I do not recall > > any > > > such farm community. > > > Kathleen > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > > To: "Historical Costume" > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 12:45 PM > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > > > > rather bad luck for hawthorne. He hated it never wrote a word and left > > in > > > > disgust. I'm unsure of the Alcott refrence but I'd be more interested > if > > > it > > > > was....I knew he had a few issues as well. (Alcott) I think I merely > > > wanted > > > > to point oout that the idea of communal living is old very old and > what > > > we'd > > > > consider "hippies" have always been here in one way shape form or > > another. > > > > The Farm in Summerville Tennesee stands out in my mind as being one of > > the > > > > longer running ones in the US being nearly 35 IIRC. > > > > ============================= > > > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > > > www.swapking.com/hats > > > > ============================= > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > > > > To: "Historical Costume" > > > > Sent: January 28, 2004 12:31 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah, Bronson Alcott's group. This earlier period was also the time of > > the > > > > > Shakers and Harmonists, other utopian movements. > > > > > Kathleen > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > > > > To: "Historical Costume" > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:52 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the record I'm unsure of the dates but Nathaniel Hawthorne > lived > > > on > > > > a > > > > > > commune sometime in the 1800's. It was called Brook Farm. > > > > > > > > > > > > B~ > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 15:50:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SKoASd020114 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:50:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SKje4S018828; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:45:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SKjd5j087729; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:45:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.uttyl.edu (mail.uttyl.edu [198.213.56.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SKjW5j087568 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:45:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu) In-Reply-To: <83.408b593.2d4969f5@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "Self Sufficiency"; was Cold Mountain Costumes To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5 September 26, 2003 Message-ID: From: Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:02:12 -0600 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on UT Tyler Admin/UT Tyler(Release 6.5|September 26, 2003) at 01/28/2004 02:47:44 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't seen the film yet, but are we referring to compulsory self-sufficiency before the war started, or after the war was well underway? Or semi-self-sufficiency by choice (in the 1960s my mother didn't have to make my dresses but chose to most of the time) or by necessity? Vicki Betts vbetts@gower.net As to "self-sufficient" communities, someone made a reference to the costume designer's referring to the farm community in the film as "self sufficient." I don't deny that there were the occasional "utopian" communities who may have consciously tried to be self sufficient. What I question is that there were any communities so isolated that they HAD to be self sufficient as they did not have access to mass-produced goods. Just don't think that was a fact by the mid-19th century in the U.S. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 15:50:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SKojSd020137 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:50:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SKhB4S018368; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:43:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SKhA5j085647; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:43:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav50.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SKgp5j085327 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:42:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:25:10 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav50.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:25:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040128145910.01d79080@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "Self Sufficiency"; was Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:25:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2004 20:25:10.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[D3D45660:01C3E5DC] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Bridgette...I wasn't sure how to go disagreeing with that statement without sounding like a total shrew. Isolation in the mountain areas was very high. People would run up to hide or whatever and not come down again for years. I've noticed that some Appalachian area folk that I've come into contact with in the last ten years in fact still referred to the CW as the "War of Northern Aggression" or some such phrase. Now mind I visited the mountain areas in my 20's and these were older people. I don't think they thought of the war in that way it was simply the phrase used for generations.Another drastic example is WWII era Japanese soldiers on little islands with no clue it had been all over for ten years. AS for the hat issue...are you looking for a pattern? Or examples? B~ ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb http://my.lulu.com/kristalori Elizabethan Ladies Calendar Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 28, 2004 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "Self Sufficiency"; was Cold Mountain Costumes > > >Ann wrote: in regards to mid-19th century US ... > >What I question is that there were any communities so isolated > >that they HAD to be self sufficient as they did > >not have access to mass-produced goods. Just don't think that was > >a fact by the mid-19th century in the U.S. > > Ah... I need to disagree with that statement. respectfully, of > course. ; > > Many of the mountain communities of Appalachia (from Northern Ga. to > Kentucky and W. Va) may never have seen or heard information from the > "rest of the world". As an example... not 15 miles from where I used to > live there is a plaque erected to the last casualty of the Civil War. A > Young U.S. Army officer killed in the 1890's by some confederate soldiers > who hadn't heard that the war was over. > > I'm not saying that these areas were totally devoid of contact with the > outside world. But contact was sparse, unreliable and usually more than > most folks of the area could afford. So yes, the areas and communities > were pretty self-sufficient. Or they made do without. > > There are many places where I hail from that only got electricity in the > late-60's, and only as a part of an effort started by LBJ to help the poor > of rural Appalachia. A Sears catalog was a "major" event in my father's > childhood. That's the 1940's. And my little cabin that I lived for quite > a while in a few years ago, had no telephone and no central heat... (just > a stove) > > OCC... looking for more information on Russian or Viking caps... have > leads on Birka and Jorvik... any other ideas out there? > > Bridgette > who hails from MeatCamp, NC... just a hog waller away from PottersTown and > BannersElk... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 17:04:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SM4OSd020937 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:04:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SLxN4S025657; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:59:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SLxJ6Z047423; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:59:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SLx76Z047201 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:59:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be48.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.72]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 46C41480195 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:58:52 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001a01c3e5e9$efb9fcb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:58:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] elizabethan standing collar. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0SM4OSd020937 Status: RO About 1/4 of teh way down on this page http://vintagesewing.info/1940s/42-mpd/mpd-07.html there is a pattern for an Elizabethan standing collar. It uses 1/4" slashes brought together to make the collar stand without any other supports. Does anyone know if this is at all period? Elizabethan standing collars would normally be a pleated ruff standing and open front. But the later period about 1600 and onwards the standing band was popular. This is the right way to make a standing collar with a rectangular strip of material darted in the neck. So it is originally right. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 17:05:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SM5USd020943 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:05:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SM3C4S026003; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:03:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SM3B6Z050784; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:03:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SM366Z050734 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:03:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be48.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.72]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8848A480108 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:02:56 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002301c3e5ea$81a30b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:03:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] muffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0SM5USd020943 Status: RO Hi the list. I amm making a mans cloak after a pattern from Williamsburg. I make it in black wool flannel and i line it with pale blue cotton velvet. For the collar and cape i make it in persian fake goat skin (grey) Now i would also like to make myself a muff. It was quite fashionable also for men. I was thinking about making the muff in fake persian goat skin two. Has any of you tryed to make a muff? I have never tryed it, but i thoaght about using watting in the interlinning. Would that be all right? Any suggestions greately apreciated ;-) Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 17:32:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SMWBSd021123 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:32:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SMTK4S028754; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:29:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SMTH6Z071462; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:29:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from charlevoix.vervehosting.com (charlevoix.vervehosting.com [209.50.239.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SMTE6a071411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:29:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from historian@reconstructinghistory.com) Received: from bee-100-81.thebeenet.com ([216.83.100.81] helo=Kass) by charlevoix.vervehosting.com with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AlyBH-0002QI-CP for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:29:08 -0500 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] elizabethan standing collar. Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:29:23 -0500 Message-ID: <005b01c3e5ee$3029d190$bc6453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <001a01c3e5e9$efb9fcb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - charlevoix.vervehosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - reconstructinghistory.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO About 1/4 of teh way down on this page http://vintagesewing.info/1940s/42-mpd/mpd-07.html there is a pattern for an Elizabethan standing collar. It uses 1/4" slashes brought together to make the collar stand without any other supports. Does anyone know if this is at all period? Elizabethan standing collars would normally be a pleated ruff standing and open front. But the later period about 1600 and onwards the standing band was popular. This is the right way to make a standing collar with a rectangular strip of material darted in the neck. So it is originally right. >>>> True, but with no other supports? Standing bands of this type always sat on top of something, usually called a "supportase". I'm not aware of a way for them to stand up by themselves... The darts in the collar don't make it stand up. They make the fabric turn so it lays in a circle without puckering. Like the ones these gentlemen are wearing here: http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/17thc/clerk.jpg Except in Elizabeth's time, they would have been on a supportase and not worn by lowly soldiers... ;) Kass Reconstructing History Patterns http://reconstructinghistory.com Join Our Pattern Discussion List: http://reconstructinghistory.com/mailman/listinfo/patterns_reconstructin ghistory.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 17:40:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SMeDSd021165 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:40:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SMbp4S029594; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:37:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SMbn6Z078280; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:37:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from charlevoix.vervehosting.com (charlevoix.vervehosting.com [209.50.239.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SMbf6a078192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:37:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from historian@reconstructinghistory.com) Received: from bee-100-81.thebeenet.com ([216.83.100.81] helo=Kass) by charlevoix.vervehosting.com with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AlyJU-0003IP-2E for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:37:36 -0500 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] muffs Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:37:51 -0500 Message-ID: <005c01c3e5ef$5f620670$bc6453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <002301c3e5ea$81a30b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - charlevoix.vervehosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - reconstructinghistory.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was thinking about making the muff in fake persian goat skin two. Has any of you tryed to make a muff? I have never tryed it, but i thoaght about using watting in the interlinning. Would that be all right? Any suggestions greately apreciated ;-) >>>> Hi Bjarne. I made a muff for myself last winter to go to an 18th century ball. I had an old fur coat (muskrat I think) that I inherited and never wear. So I cut the sleeves off of it, opened up the seams on the underside of each sleeve, and sewed the two sleeves together, making a big tube. I cut the top of the sleeves even and turned the original lining under so that the cut side matched the finished side. I didn't put any watting or interlining in it because the original coat already had all that. It was really easy and it looked like the winter scenes you see in period art. I hope this gives you some ideas. Wear it in good health! Kass Reconstructing History Patterns http://reconstructinghistory.com Join Our Pattern Discussion List: http://reconstructinghistory.com/mailman/listinfo/patterns_reconstructin ghistory.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 17:45:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SMjSSd021185 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:45:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SMhK4S000252; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:43:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SMhF6Z082754; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:43:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SMhE6Z082690 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:43:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C01F442615 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:54:18 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40183BF2.90002@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:47:14 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] elizabethan standing collar. References: <005b01c3e5ee$3029d190$bc6453d8@Kass> In-Reply-To: <005b01c3e5ee$3029d190$bc6453d8@Kass> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is the right way to make a standing collar with a rectangular strip > of material darted in the neck. > So it is originally right. > > True, but with no other supports? Standing bands of this type always > sat on top of something, usually called a "supportase". I'm not aware > of a way for them to stand up by themselves... For a small collar on a woman's shirt or dress in the modern style it would work. The example on that site looks about 3" high and it would stand by itself. As you say, you couldn't get a huge 16th century collar to stand without support, though. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 18:43:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0SNhSSd021442 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:43:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SNfP4S004888; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:41:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SNfM6Z027062; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:41:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0SNfH6Z026938 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:41:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.15b.2c7d36f0 (3932) for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:41:09 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <15b.2c7d36f0.2d49a295@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:41:09 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "Self Sufficiency"; was Cold Mountain Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And I will respectfully disagree, as well, but then I will let this thread drop. No peddlers ever came through? No one ever went to a town for anything? They grew, carded/combed, and spun, the fibers, then dyed and wove ALL their own fabrics for everything--shirts, chemises, stockings, trousers, tailored coats, waistcoats, dresses? I doubt very much whether they made their own sewing thread or needles, or men's felt hats, for example, and if they had to buy those somewhere, why not fabric, too? You all may be right, but my studies in textile history indicate otherwise. And that is where I will leave it. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 20:00:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0T10FSd021778 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:00:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0T0wN4S010574; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:58:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0T0wK6Z075109; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:58:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0T0wH6a075050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:58:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0T0svPp001678 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:54:57 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:54:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40185AA5.90409@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:58:13 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] muffs References: <002301c3e5ea$81a30b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <002301c3e5ea$81a30b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Has any of you tryed to make a muff? > I have never tryed it, but i thoaght about using watting in the interlinning. Would that be all right? I have a muff, for reasons unknown passed down in the family; no idea how old it is. It is very warm, but very, very lightweight. I have not studied clothing like you have, but I'd probably use fluffy unspun wool, because it would be very warm and very light. Could be eiderdown, though, I suppose; I've never taken it apart. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - B. Franklin, 1759 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 20:08:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0T18YSd021820 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:08:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0T1774S011218; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:07:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0T1766Z079872; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:07:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0T1746Z079855 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:07:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.83.112.176]) by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040129005318.ONOR25581.out001.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:53:18 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: "Self Sufficiency"; was Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:53:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out001.verizon.net from [162.83.112.176] at Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:53:17 -0600 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think it was ever a fact. The country in fact relied heavily on import from 1607 until 1774, when difficulties with the mother country started to cause difficulties. Even then, rather then self sufficient communities, one starts to see an increase in an already present coastwise trade. I really think this self sufficient American is a myth (with the exception of a few special communities some of which has already been mentioned. I used to believe it, but as I have learned more about this country's history, and see the actual documents, a different story starts to come alive. We have a lot of these myths. Ron Carnegie > > > As to "self-sufficient" communities, someone made a reference to the > costume > designer's referring to the farm community in the film as "self > sufficient." > I don't deny that there were the occasional "utopian" communities who may > have > consciously tried to be self sufficient. What I question is that there > were > any communities so isolated that they HAD to be self sufficient > as they did > > not have access to mass-produced goods. Just don't think that was a fact > by the > mid-19th century in the U.S. > > Ann Wass > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 20:18:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0T1IeSd021840 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:18:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0T1Fo4S011767; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:15:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0T1Fn6Z084724; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:15:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0T1Fk6Z084678 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:15:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.31.4353da34 (4012) for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:10:28 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <31.4353da34.2d49b784@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:10:28 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "Self Sufficiency"; was Cold Mountain Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/28/2004 6:42:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnnBWass@aol.com writes: > You all may be right, but my studies in textile history indicate otherwise. > I think the key here is theatrical. Whether there were completely self sufficient communities all over the place or not really has nothing to do with the FILM. It's a FILM remember...of a novel. I would imagine in reality a community in the middle to the end of the war would be forced to be more self sufficient than usual....But even Scarlet wore her mother's earrings and used the fine curtain fabric for a new dress. There was life before the war that evidence of didn't just evaporate. Still I can see exaggerating the isolation and gung ho attitude of being self sufficient in the costumes and art direction to create an atmosphere. A push to invoke that bubble of idealic refuge from the horrors of the war and point hard to the struggle everyone had surviving, fighting in battle or at home. Still, why the 1840s sleeves???!!! :-P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jan 28 22:00:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0T30MSd022086 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:00:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0T2xZ4S026596; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:59:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0T2xS6Z041796; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:59:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0T2xP6a041761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:59:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0T3IvWm030081 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:18:57 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.117] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A49C40730140; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 21:49:00 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c3e614$985138a0$755183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5f.444f884d.2d47e07f@aol.com><001501c3e5c4$8d302800$795183d1@rmitchellras><001101c3e5ce$18f5ee20$7a5183d1@rmitchellras><001901c3e5d7$2c411d20$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:04:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you, Bice, again. As I have indicated, I am well aquatinted with the NE Utopian Societies. I am interested in other utopian groups that were also developing and following the ideals in other US territories at roughly the same time. (RE Costume content, I am sure that there is additional history here that connects with the general picture of how people clothed themselves and how they counted in the general scheme of life.) Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > It seems The Farm's website is down. I know they do their own web pages so > they may be revamping. You can see the store site here > http://www.farmcatalog.com/cgi-bin/Web_store/web_store.cgi > As it says on the page : The Farm is an intentional, spiritual community > founded in 1971, based on the principles of nonviolence and a respect for > the earth. It is still opertational and they do accept visitors but you must > call first so someone can meet you at the gate. > The other Commune I spoke of was brook Farm. Nathaniel Hawthorne lived there > for a year. Now as a New Englander I'm sure you've heard of Nathaniel? > Here are some sites with his experiences there: > http://www.heureka.clara.net/art/hawthorn.htm > http://www.bartleby.com/65/ha/HawthornN.html > and to google: > http://www.google.com/search?q=nathaniel+hawthorne+and+brook+farm > > For Bronson Alcott and Fruitlands: > http://www.shepherd.edu/transweb/fruitlands.htm > > I hope this helps. > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: January 28, 2004 2:44 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > I am interested in this particular Farm that you mention. it is not one > > that I had heard of. As a New Englander by birth and education, I tend to > > have blinders on when it comes to other parts of the country that were > > developing on parallel lines as other formative movements were under way > in > > the 'cradle of liberty. I Grew up with knowledge of the Shakers and NE > > Utopian societies. However, until I came to Pa., I confess that I had > never > > heard of the Harmonists. Shame on me! > > So tell me, if I 'google' The Farm in Summerville, TN., will I get some > idea > > of how this community began and operated? > > Kathleen----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 1:42 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > Guess we should have changed the topic. The original remark that the > Brook > > > Farm references that I made had to do with someone expressing doubt on > > "self > > > sufficient" communities existing this early in America's history. I > made > > an > > > example of Brook Farm which IIRC was pre 1860. > > > > > > Bice > > > ============================= > > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > > www.swapking.com/hats > > > ============================= > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > > > To: "Historical Costume" > > > Sent: January 28, 2004 1:39 PM > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > > > > I guess I need to see this film. Having read the book, I do not > recall > > > any > > > > such farm community. > > > > Kathleen > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > > > To: "Historical Costume" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 12:45 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > > > > > > > rather bad luck for hawthorne. He hated it never wrote a word and > left > > > in > > > > > disgust. I'm unsure of the Alcott refrence but I'd be more > interested > > if > > > > it > > > > > was....I knew he had a few issues as well. (Alcott) I think I merely > > > > wanted > > > > > to point oout that the idea of communal living is old very old and > > what > > > > we'd > > > > > consider "hippies" have always been here in one way shape form or > > > another. > > > > > The Farm in Summerville Tennesee stands out in my mind as being one > of > > > the > > > > > longer running ones in the US being nearly 35 IIRC. > > > > > ============================= > > > > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > > > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > > > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > > > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > > > > www.swapking.com/hats > > > > > ============================= > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > > > > > To: "Historical Costume" > > > > > Sent: January 28, 2004 12:31 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah, Bronson Alcott's group. This earlier period was also the time > of > > > the > > > > > > Shakers and Harmonists, other utopian movements. > > > > > > Kathleen > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > > > > > To: "Historical Costume" > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:52 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the record I'm unsure of the dates but Nathaniel Hawthorne > > lived > > > > on > > > > > a > > > > > > > commune sometime in the 1800's. It was called Brook Farm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B~ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 07:58:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TCwCSd018201 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 07:58:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TCvF4S024095; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 05:57:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TCvA6Z089375; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 05:57:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TCv76a089354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 05:57:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0TDGkWm000413 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:16:46 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.119] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0B34E410150; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 07:46:43 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c3e668$193fba60$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005c01c3e5ef$5f620670$bc6453d8@Kass> Subject: Re: [h-cost] muffs Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:02:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My antique muffs for the earliest are small down 'tubes that have been covered with soft fur. the handle is a silk cord loop on one end. I also have one with a flap on the out side that conceals a purse. I made some for a wedding once that featured marabou around the out side that was set close enough to resemble fur. Same general make up. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 5:37 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] muffs > I was thinking about making the muff in fake persian goat skin two. > Has any of you tryed to make a muff? > I have never tryed it, but i thoaght about using watting in the > interlinning. Would that be all right? > Any suggestions greately apreciated ;-) > >>>> > Hi Bjarne. > > I made a muff for myself last winter to go to an 18th century ball. I > had an old fur coat (muskrat I think) that I inherited and never wear. > So I cut the sleeves off of it, opened up the seams on the underside of > each sleeve, and sewed the two sleeves together, making a big tube. I > cut the top of the sleeves even and turned the original lining under so > that the cut side matched the finished side. I didn't put any watting > or interlining in it because the original coat already had all that. It > was really easy and it looked like the winter scenes you see in period > art. > > I hope this gives you some ideas. > > Wear it in good health! > > Kass > > Reconstructing History Patterns > http://reconstructinghistory.com > Join Our Pattern Discussion List: > http://reconstructinghistory.com/mailman/listinfo/patterns_reconstructin > ghistory.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 08:29:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TDTkSd018404 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:29:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TDRK4S025553; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:27:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TDRI6Z001509; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:27:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TDQk6Z001264 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:26:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.142.21660fae (4246) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:26:34 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <142.21660fae.2d4a640a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:26:34 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] ? - "What Clothes Reveal" -book vs. exhibit To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Still not sure I would recommend a visit all the way from Canada in February, but this thread has inspired me to go back again--I saw it once and vowed to go back. So I'm going Feb. 15--the show closes Feb. 16. Let's hope for decent weather. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 08:32:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TDW7Sd018413 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:32:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TDVI4S025751; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:31:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TDVH6Z003207; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:31:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.primushost.com (smtp3.primushost.com [209.58.220.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TDVD6a003131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:31:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp3.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1AmBwd-0002k6-Sz; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:10:55 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 1AmBnB-0002rk-00; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:01:09 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:01:09 -0500 (EST) From: Katy Bishop To: Cynthia Virtue Subject: Re: [h-cost] muffs In-Reply-To: <40185AA5.90409@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id i0TDVD6a003131 Cc: Historical Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Museum of Fine Arts in Boston has a wonderful 18th century muff, circular, about 12 inches long, stuffed with something that feels like down/feathers or wool fluff, and it is colered in colorful feathers. Such a gorgeous little jewel. Katy On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Cynthia Virtue wrote: >Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >> Has any of you tryed to make a muff? >> I have never tryed it, but i thoaght about using watting in the interlinning. Would that be all right? > >I have a muff, for reasons unknown passed down in the family; no idea >how old it is. It is very warm, but very, very lightweight. I have not >studied clothing like you have, but I'd probably use fluffy unspun wool, >because it would be very warm and very light. Could be eiderdown, >though, I suppose; I've never taken it apart. > >-- >Cynthia Virtue and/or >Cynthia du Pré Argent > >They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary >safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - B. Franklin, 1759 >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 10:04:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TF47Sd019643 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:04:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TF0n4S000743; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:00:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TF0k6Z046797; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:00:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TF0h6Z046710 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:00:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a251.in-tch.com [66.62.107.51]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0TEcQc09663 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 07:38:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <401920CB.3040304@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:03:39 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th/16th cent. Transition Gown References: <401421D9.5040705@in-tch.com><0d0901c3e390$8af343a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <40144670.7030205@in-tch.com> <0d7101c3e42d$c95dba10$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <0d7101c3e42d$c95dba10$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, no, that's not mine. Definitely similar in some respects (hair, posture, etc.), but the dress is definitely different. The one in mine fits smoothly in the front (no tucks or whatever those parallel lines are). Also, the dress in my painting is a golden-greeny color, not red. And my painting is noted as being in Leipzig, not Berlin. Some of the details of the landscape and such seem to be in better repair on my painting, although with the exception of the dress details, the paintings are remarkably similar. I'd venture to say that maybe one is a copy of the other? or maybe they're both copies of something else? --sue, finding costuming mysteries intriguing.... E House wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Clemenger" > >>According to the info provided by the calendar folks, it's: >>"Woman with Braided Hair" (detail. Albrech Durer. Oil on panel, >>German, 1497. Museum der bildenden Kunste, Leipzig. PhoteO >>artothek/Christoph Sandig. >>--sue > > > Ahh! > This, maybe? Different information, but the only thing from 1497 (or -6, > or -8) that seems about right, and I think I see where the hooks would be, > in better resolution: > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/d/durer/1/02/03hair_d.html > Speaking of which, I know it's been discussed on this type of gown before a > zillion times, but has anyone come to any conclusions about those 4 vertical > rows of something on either side of the front opening? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 10:14:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TFEvSd019723 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:14:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TFCx4S001638; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TFCu6Z054042; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:12:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TFCr6Z054012 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:12:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i0TFCng6025562 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:12:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040129100941.01c2ceb8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:12:52 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040128145910.01d79080@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Rus hats... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey B ... ; > I'm looking for more examples.... I have leads - but I'm not being able to turn up anything... I'm looking for gosh darn near anything. Archeological, statuary, painting depictions, whatever... thanks... Mari >AS for the hat issue...are you looking for a pattern? Or examples? > >B~ >looking for more information on Russian or Viking caps... have > > leads on Birka and Jorvik... any other ideas out there? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 10:42:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TFgTSd019927 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:42:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TFfH4S003725; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:41:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TFfF6Z072430; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:41:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav26.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TFfD6Z072363 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:41:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 07:23:51 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav26.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:23:51 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040128145910.01d79080@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> <5.2.1.1.2.20040129100941.01c2ceb8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rus hats... Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:24:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2004 15:23:51.0148 (UTC) FILETIME=[E60CF2C0:01C3E67B] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't "played" russian in ages. Let me see what I can find. Pattern for one of the small cone pointy hats I can do...example. Gotta dig. Time line? Bice ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb http://my.lulu.com/kristalori Elizabethan Ladies Calendar Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 29, 2004 10:12 AM Subject: [h-cost] Rus hats... > Hey B ... ; > I'm looking for more examples.... I have leads - but I'm > not being able to turn up anything... I'm looking for gosh darn near > anything. Archeological, statuary, painting depictions, > whatever... thanks... Mari > > > > >AS for the hat issue...are you looking for a pattern? Or examples? > > > >B~ > > > > >looking for more information on Russian or Viking caps... have > > > leads on Birka and Jorvik... any other ideas out there? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 10:52:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TFqvSd020007 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:52:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TFqC5W004776; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:52:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TFQg6Z062600; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:26:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14009.mail.yahoo.com (web14009.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0TFQW6Z062477 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:26:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040129151949.38784.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:19:49 GMT Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:19:49 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO yes, some STILL think of it that way. My grandmother in Texas was one. And she was only an infant when the war ended. ===== Seńora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save Ł80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 11:16:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TGGLSd020183 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:16:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TGDn4S006948; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:13:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TGDi6Z095779; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:13:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav69.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TGDc6Z095662 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:13:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 07:56:13 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav69.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:56:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040129151949.38784.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:56:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2004 15:56:13.0571 (UTC) FILETIME=[6BD32D30:01C3E680] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well in this case it was teens of my own age (I was born in '72) who had always heard it reffered to as such. It was that or "Dreadful Conflict" ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb http://my.lulu.com/kristalori Elizabethan Ladies Calendar Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 29, 2004 10:19 AM Subject: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > yes, some STILL think of it that way. My grandmother > in Texas was one. And she was only an infant when the > war ended. > > ===== > Seńora Catalina > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save Ł80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 11:41:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TGfjSd020349 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:41:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TGbn4S009297; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:37:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TGbm6Z014306; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:37:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TGbh6Z014178 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:37:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.da.23559d5 (4560) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:37:27 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:37:27 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/29/2004 11:14:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com writes: > It was that or "Dreadful Conflict" > I've always preferred "The Late Unpleasantness". [I heard a lady in Charleston refer to it this way....like nothing unpleasant has happened since! Of course she was putting on her Southern Belle act.] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 11:48:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TGmlSd020374 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:48:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TGkf4S010293; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:46:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TGkb6Z021481; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:46:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TGkU6Z021398 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:46:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0TDSP915972; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 05:28:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AmCDY-0004iM-00; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 05:28:24 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:28:25 -0700 Message-ID: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0TGmlSd020374 Status: RO Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry NOI to anyonw who works for them!) I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up the back? http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 &category%5Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245 http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 &category%5Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 12:09:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TH9QSd020540 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:09:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TH3l4S012127; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:03:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TH3F6Z034558; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:03:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav41.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TH3D6Z034449 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:03:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:45:47 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav41.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:45:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:46:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2004 16:45:47.0109 (UTC) FILETIME=[58311150:01C3E687] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heh....been a while since I'd heard that one. That one seems to be a lower countries term I've noticed. Seems to come from the Carolina's and that area. ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb http://my.lulu.com/kristalori Elizabethan Ladies Calendar Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: January 29, 2004 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > In a message dated 1/29/2004 11:14:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, > wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com writes: > > > It was that or "Dreadful Conflict" > > > > I've always preferred "The Late Unpleasantness". > > [I heard a lady in Charleston refer to it this way....like nothing unpleasant > has happened since! Of course she was putting on her Southern Belle act.] > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 12:23:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0THNlSd020679 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:23:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0THF84S013261; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0THF66Z043967; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:15:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav11.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0THF06Z043860 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:15:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:57:32 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav11.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:57:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:57:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2004 16:57:32.0603 (UTC) FILETIME=[FCB2E8B0:01C3E688] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The trouble with FOH corsets is they are not made to last. I have repaired more of these things than I care to count. Seams rip and/or separate they are not made for anyone with boobs period. And if you are a plus size. Forget it. I love Victoria's Secret as an example...any bra on the planet will fit me at a 38C or at most 38D. Will either VS or FOH? No. I have to buy a 44D or LARGER do you know what that does to my fragile psyche?? Bice ============================= On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb http://my.lulu.com/kristalori Elizabethan Ladies Calendar Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern www.swapking.com/hats ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" Sent: January 29, 2004 8:28 AM Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry NOI to anyonw who works for them!) I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up the back? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 12:52:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0THqKSd020888 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:52:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0THlJ4S016353; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:47:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0THko6Z070404; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:46:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0THkj6Z070352 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:46:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0TGR5927319 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:27:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AmF0R-0007cm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:27:03 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Saragrace T. Knauf'" , "H-Costume@Indra. Com" Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:27:05 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c3e684$bbfedee0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0THqKSd020888 Status: RO I was having difficulty sending this file with the links. I wanted to try to send it w/o them. If it reaches the sites, I will try again with the links. -----Original Message----- From: Saragrace T. Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:28 AM To: H-Costume@Indra. Com (h-costume@indra.com) Subject: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry NOI to anyonw who works for them!) I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up the back? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 13:00:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TI0WSd020931 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:00:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0THxT4S017742; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:59:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0THxS6Z080525; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:59:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from solomon.io.com (solomon.io.com [199.170.88.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0THxR6a080508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:59:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (columbia.io.com [199.170.88.107]) by solomon.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0THkQ6A011140 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:46:26 -0600 Received: from io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id i0THjs2S005348 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:45:54 -0600 Received: from 198.134.51.13 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:45:54 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <38500.198.134.51.13.1075398354.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:45:54 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: In-Reply-To: References: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmmm ... Bice and Fragile in the same sentence .... girl, you know how to make me smile confusedly. ;) Love you honey! For me, since I stopped breast feeding, VS fits nicely at a 38c. While I was slimming down from breast feeding I was at a 40d. Unfortunately I chose underwire so while it was an absolute fit, it was not comfortable. I stuck it out cause without the wire I bounced with every step, bouncing hurt. Wires kept the bounce down to nothing, no pain but uncomfortable. What I like is that they are big on having 4 hooks and eyes on the closure all the way down to a size 36c, all other makers have 2. Four keeps my rolls of fat from folding the side and back part. My FOH corset of 5 years is just now starting to pull at the decorative part of the fabric seams but not the foundation. My recommendation is that if anyone gets the new ones you get the cotton ones and then reinforce where the seams are with seam tape laid flat against it and stitch down on either side about a quarter of an inch away from the seam. Do this on the inside. This will help it last longer. I would stay away from the satin ones. Pretty but not worth more than a couple of sexy evenings with your partner of choice. I got two cotton ones a while back and niether one of them is showing any signs of wear at the seams. I got lucky I think. Wish they still had that one I would order two more and put them in storage. Chiara Bice dEste said: > The trouble with FOH corsets is they are not made to last. I have > repaired more of these things than I care to count. Seams rip and/or > separate they are not made for anyone with boobs period. And if you are > a plus size. Forget it. I love Victoria's Secret as an example...any bra > on the planet will fit me at a 38C or at most 38D. Will either VS or > FOH? No. I have to buy a 44D or LARGER do you know what that does to my > fragile psyche?? > > Bice > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > Sent: January 29, 2004 8:28 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and > are listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are > starting to flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the > Renaisance > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a > clue-sorry NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace > up the back? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Ches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 13:14:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TIEVSd021042 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:14:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TI9n4S018859; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:09:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TI9m6Z088865; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:09:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TI9Z6Z088691 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:09:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.130.251]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 787F76DDF2 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:09:28 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:09:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes Message-ID: <4018DBDA.23054.122DFCF5@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20040129151949.38784.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > yes, some STILL think of it that way. My grandmother > in Texas was one. And she was only an infant when the > war ended. And it's not just the isolated people who think this way. It's a "Deep South" cultural thing. There are also people out there who still think that the south should secede from the rest of the US. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 13:28:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TISHSd021663 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:28:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TIRK4S020921; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:27:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TIRI6Z002798; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:27:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav12.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TIRD6Z002716 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:27:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:09:50 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav12.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:09:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> <38500.198.134.51.13.1075398354.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:10:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2004 18:09:50.0454 (UTC) FILETIME=[16427160:01C3E693] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah well...it's loosing the wieght. I loose so far then stop. Facing a stomach surgery isn't fun when they say it's gotta come off it's gotta. And when you have a bustline that is impressive by any guidelines (I had a reduction when I was 19 so they are still high up there) My new VS was a two hook was so pretty I had to have it. When I got it and realized that there was no way on gods green earth that this "38C" was going around me I cried. I then ran up to ebay and grabbed two extensions. I WILL wear this thing.Sexy undies are impossible in a plus size.And then when they don't fit even after this is what size you've worn for years...I estimated that according to VS I'd need at least a 48C/D and that sucks. B~ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: Sent: January 29, 2004 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > Hmmmm ... Bice and Fragile in the same sentence .... girl, you know how to > make me smile confusedly. ;) > > Love you honey! > > For me, since I stopped breast feeding, VS fits nicely at a 38c. While I > was slimming down from breast feeding I was at a 40d. Unfortunately I > chose underwire so while it was an absolute fit, it was not comfortable. I > stuck it out cause without the wire I bounced with every step, bouncing > hurt. Wires kept the bounce down to nothing, no pain but uncomfortable. > > What I like is that they are big on having 4 hooks and eyes on the closure > all the way down to a size 36c, all other makers have 2. Four keeps my > rolls of fat from folding the side and back part. > > My FOH corset of 5 years is just now starting to pull at the decorative > part of the fabric seams but not the foundation. > > My recommendation is that if anyone gets the new ones you get the cotton > ones and then reinforce where the seams are with seam tape laid flat > against it and stitch down on either side about a quarter of an inch away > from the seam. Do this on the inside. This will help it last longer. I > would stay away from the satin ones. Pretty but not worth more than a > couple of sexy evenings with your partner of choice. > > I got two cotton ones a while back and niether one of them is showing any > signs of wear at the seams. I got lucky I think. Wish they still had that > one I would order two more and put them in storage. > > > Chiara > > Bice dEste said: > > The trouble with FOH corsets is they are not made to last. I have > > repaired more of these things than I care to count. Seams rip and/or > > separate they are not made for anyone with boobs period. And if you are > > a plus size. Forget it. I love Victoria's Secret as an example...any bra > > on the planet will fit me at a 38C or at most 38D. Will either VS or > > FOH? No. I have to buy a 44D or LARGER do you know what that does to my > > fragile psyche?? > > > > Bice > > ============================= > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > www.swapking.com/hats > > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > > Sent: January 29, 2004 8:28 AM > > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and > > are listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are > > starting to flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the > > Renaisance > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a > > clue-sorry NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace > > up the back? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > Ches > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 13:35:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TIZiSd021724 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:35:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TIXn4S021594; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:33:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TIXm6Z008215; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:33:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TIXh6Z008091 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:33:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.53.4187af9 (2519) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:28:11 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <53.4187af9.2d4aaabb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:28:11 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/29/2004 1:10:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > There are also people out there who > still think that the south should secede from the rest of the US. > But not many. I don't live in the "deep" South but I do live in NC and there are very very few who actually obsess over it. Those of us interested in history [via clothes...and not] spend way more time on the Civil War than most people. That stereotype "Forget, Hell" type is not that prevalent. Even a lot of those who say they are that type, aren't. It's just so cute..... NOT! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 13:44:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TIiYSd021760 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:44:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TIY34S021617; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TIY36Z008419; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:34:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav32.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TIXt6Z008250 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:33:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:16:19 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav32.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:16:18 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4018DBDA.23054.122DFCF5@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:16:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2004 18:16:19.0008 (UTC) FILETIME=[FDDB1400:01C3E693] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And an unlimited number of northerners who would let 'em. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 29, 2004 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > > yes, some STILL think of it that way. My grandmother > > in Texas was one. And she was only an infant when the > > war ended. > > And it's not just the isolated people who think this way. It's a > "Deep South" cultural thing. There are also people out there who > still think that the south should secede from the rest of the US. > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 13:50:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TIoRSd021783 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:50:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TImi4S023513; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:48:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TImf6Z020480; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:48:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TImd6Z020448 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:48:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m58.in-tch.com [216.166.191.58]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0TIQQc25676 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:26:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <40195639.1060407@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:51:37 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? References: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> In-Reply-To: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd imagine the Spandex in the fabric is what makes the "fit" possible without cups, although I betcha it'd be less effective, and perhaps even uncomfortable for those with a larger cup size. The Renaissance corset looks like it wants to go under "wench" garb....you could probably get the girls where you wanted, but the rest of the silhouette still wouldn't look right. If I still wore styles requiring corsetry, I'd want linen, I think, and whatever boning or other stiffening was appropriate. But then, for me it's clothing, and not some fantasy thing for fun with a partner or under a modern costume. --sue, who's never been big on the floofy girl stuff..... Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up > the back? > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245> > &category%5Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245 > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640> > &category%5Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640 > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 14:17:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TJHmSd021905 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:17:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TJCJ4S026873; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:12:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TJCD6Z040219; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:12:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav25.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TJC96Z040106 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:12:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:54:38 -0800 Received: from 24.58.96.248 by bay1-dav25.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:54:37 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.96.248] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> <40195639.1060407@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:55:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2004 18:54:38.0089 (UTC) FILETIME=[5836FF90:01C3E699] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For a decent corset you want metal bones coutil or duck fabric and a lining that won't scratch or make you sweat like a pig not to be inelegant over it.There are any number of corsitiers out there who can get this for you in any style you want. B~ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: January 29, 2004 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > I'd imagine the Spandex in the fabric is what makes the "fit" possible > without cups, although I betcha it'd be less effective, and perhaps even > uncomfortable for those with a larger cup size. > The Renaissance corset looks like it wants to go under "wench" > garb....you could probably get the girls where you wanted, but the rest > of the silhouette still wouldn't look right. > If I still wore styles requiring corsetry, I'd want linen, I think, and > whatever boning or other stiffening was appropriate. But then, for me > it's clothing, and not some fantasy thing for fun with a partner or > under a modern costume. > --sue, who's never been big on the floofy girl stuff..... > > Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are > > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry > > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up > > the back? > > > > > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > > > Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245> > > &category%5Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245 > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > > > Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640> > > &category%5Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640 > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 14:42:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TJglSd022042 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:42:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TJWT4S028918; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:32:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TJWQ6Z055676; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:32:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0TJWN6Z055646 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:32:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040129193221.61573.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:32:21 GMT Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:32:21 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The 1860's reenactors generally recommend to newcomers the VS 'dream corset' to give the correct profile for 1861/1862. However, having owned one, they are not really sturdy enough for people over 38C. The seams and eyelets continually come out and have to be resewn. That is if the fabric doesn't rip through entirely. These have been around for a few years. --- "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an > intersting 'trend' at > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two > corsets have cups and are > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the > breasts are starting to > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called > the Renaisance > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be > that they have a clue-sorry > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > I bet on someone like myself who does not have > implants, that I would > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that > expensive...must lace up > the back? > > > > ===== Seńora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save Ł80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 14:58:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TJwCSd022097 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:58:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TJqC5o000754; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:53:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TJP66Z050195; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:25:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TJP16Z050127 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:25:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0TIAY914133 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:10:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AmGcZ-0003qW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:10:31 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:10:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000101c3e693$30859e30$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm, I was given one many moons ago by a boyfriend, but never wore it...so I can't comment on the durability, but the silhouette is what I find most interesting. Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bice d'Este Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:58 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? The trouble with FOH corsets is they are not made to last. I have repaired more of these things than I care to count. Seams rip and/or separate they are not made for anyone with boobs period. And if you are a plus size. Forget it. I love Victoria's Secret as an example...any bra on the planet will fit me at a 38C or at most 38D. Will either VS or FOH? No. I have to buy a 44D or LARGER do you know what that does to my fragile psyche?? Bice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 15:10:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TKAQSd022168 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:10:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TK8u4S002359; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:08:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TK8s6Z084606; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:08:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TK8q6Z084451 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:08:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i0RDjBf15800.; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:45:11 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:45:11 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:44:31 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk 1/26/04 11:40:45 PM >>> >>and Margaret Rose >Do you mean Princess Margaret ? Yes, she does. I believe the middle name was commonly used when the sisters were young. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 15:11:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TKBCSd022173 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:11:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TJx64S001412; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:59:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TJx16Z076787; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:59:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TJww6a076758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:58:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0TKIfWm002605 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:18:42 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.122] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A39042F700CC; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:48:32 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c3e6a3$080970c0$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:03:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know how this one would do for Ren. but it isn't bad for late 18th C. It does lace up the back and can'mush or lift up ' as wanted. For my non sewers, I have been suggesting this as one you can get away with...We have released the straps with a couple of styles and still maintains good support (if you aren't a c or d cup). The strapless 'flat front' style also works well.These at least omit the need to further bone the bodice for a brief costume occasion. As a stepping stone to the real thing, I have found them useful, indeed! And the price is right. They stand up well in the wash and do not get terribly body bent in the long time wearing. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 8:28 AM Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry NOI to anyonw who works for them!) I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up the back? http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 &category%5Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245 http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 &category%5Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 15:21:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TKLmSd022234 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:21:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TKDL4S002734; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:13:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TKDL6Z087867; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:13:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TKD86a087700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:13:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0TKWoWm002729 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:32:50 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.122] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6DE46DD0144; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:02:38 -0500 Message-ID: <001d01c3e6a5$00231f80$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> <40195639.1060407@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:18:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The first time I used this 'Ren." corset, my actress was about #40D, and the period costume was about 1680. It worked well under her very opened neck gown. One of the scenes in the play had her crawling out from a table on hands and knees, center stage. When the Director saw her ready for the first dress rehearsal, he took me aside and queried whether or not the bodice would have to be 'altered. I told him to watch. The woman did her thing and NO Spill. He was impressed. The actress was over joyed that for the first time in ages she felt svelte and could do the show with confidence. (Now me, Having ordered from Frederick's, I was not looking forward to all the catalogues that that order was apt to generate.) Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > I'd imagine the Spandex in the fabric is what makes the "fit" possible > without cups, although I betcha it'd be less effective, and perhaps even > uncomfortable for those with a larger cup size. > The Renaissance corset looks like it wants to go under "wench" > garb....you could probably get the girls where you wanted, but the rest > of the silhouette still wouldn't look right. > If I still wore styles requiring corsetry, I'd want linen, I think, and > whatever boning or other stiffening was appropriate. But then, for me > it's clothing, and not some fantasy thing for fun with a partner or > under a modern costume. > --sue, who's never been big on the floofy girl stuff..... > > Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are > > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry > > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up > > the back? > > > > > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > > > Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245> > > &category%5Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245 > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > > > Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640> > > &category%5Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640 > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 16:23:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TLN7Sd022683 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:23:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TLKB4S010069; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:20:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TLK86Z040425; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:20:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu (IDENT:cu41754@jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.238]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TLK06a040333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:20:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from asj2001@columbia.edu) Received: from VAIO (dyn-shp-225-220.dyn.columbia.edu [160.39.225.220]) (user=asj2001 mech=LOGIN bits=0) by jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TKxZEh015953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:59:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002601c3e6aa$084ae260$9865fea9@VAIO> From: "Alexia S. Jacobs" To: References: <200401291901.i0TJ1H6Z031251@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:54:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have found, at least with my eighteenth century stays, that cupless corsets tend to push the breasts up enormously--in fact more than I would often like them to. The 18th century ideal was not to appear to have huge breasts. They were meant to rise above the neckline but not too much. I read somewhere that the tendency was to tuck the breasts down and outwards to achieve this, but mine eventually just rise again. Any suggestions? Alexia ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 2:01 PM Subject: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 67 > Send h-costume mailing list submissions to > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > h-costume-request@mail.indra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > (Bice d'Este) > 2. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > (AlbertCat@aol.com) > 3. Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? (Saragrace T. Knauf) > 4. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > (Bice d'Este) > 5. Re: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? (Bice d'Este) > 6. RE: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > (Saragrace T. Knauf) > 7. Re: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > (Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio) > 8. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > (kat@grendal.rain.com) > 9. Re: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? (Bice d'Este) > 10. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > (AlbertCat@aol.com) > 11. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > (Bice d'Este) > 12. Re: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? (Sue Clemenger) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:56:24 -0500 > From: "Bice d'Este" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Well in this case it was teens of my own age (I was born in '72) who had > always heard it reffered to as such. It was that or "Dreadful Conflict" > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: January 29, 2004 10:19 AM > Subject: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > yes, some STILL think of it that way. My grandmother > > in Texas was one. And she was only an infant when the > > war ended. > > > > ===== > > Seńora Catalina > > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save Ł80 > http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:37:27 EST > From: AlbertCat@aol.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > To: h-costume@indra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > In a message dated 1/29/2004 11:14:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, > wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com writes: > > > It was that or "Dreadful Conflict" > > > > I've always preferred "The Late Unpleasantness". > > [I heard a lady in Charleston refer to it this way....like nothing unpleasant > has happened since! Of course she was putting on her Southern Belle act.] > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:28:25 -0700 > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > Message-ID: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up > the back? > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245> > &category%5Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245 > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640> > &category%5Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:46:12 -0500 > From: "Bice d'Este" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Heh....been a while since I'd heard that one. That one seems to be a lower > countries term I've noticed. Seems to come from the Carolina's and that > area. > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: January 29, 2004 11:37 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > In a message dated 1/29/2004 11:14:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com writes: > > > > > It was that or "Dreadful Conflict" > > > > > > > I've always preferred "The Late Unpleasantness". > > > > [I heard a lady in Charleston refer to it this way....like nothing > unpleasant > > has happened since! Of course she was putting on her Southern Belle act.] > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:57:59 -0500 > From: "Bice d'Este" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > The trouble with FOH corsets is they are not made to last. I have repaired > more of these things than I care to count. Seams rip and/or separate they > are not made for anyone with boobs period. And if you are a plus size. > Forget it. I love Victoria's Secret as an example...any bra on the planet > will fit me at a 38C or at most 38D. Will either VS or FOH? No. I have to > buy a 44D or LARGER do you know what that does to my fragile psyche?? > > Bice > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > Sent: January 29, 2004 8:28 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up > the back? > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:27:05 -0700 > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > Subject: [h-cost] RE: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > To: "'Saragrace T. Knauf'" , > "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > Message-ID: <000c01c3e684$bbfedee0$6501a8c0@SG01> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I was having difficulty sending this file with the links. I wanted to try > to send it w/o them. If it reaches the sites, I will try again with the > links. > -----Original Message----- > From: Saragrace T. Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:28 AM > To: H-Costume@Indra. Com (h-costume@indra.com) > Subject: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up > the back? > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:45:54 -0600 (CST) > From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > To: > Message-ID: <38500.198.134.51.13.1075398354.squirrel@webmail.io.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hmmmm ... Bice and Fragile in the same sentence .... girl, you know how to > make me smile confusedly. ;) > > Love you honey! > > For me, since I stopped breast feeding, VS fits nicely at a 38c. While I > was slimming down from breast feeding I was at a 40d. Unfortunately I > chose underwire so while it was an absolute fit, it was not comfortable. I > stuck it out cause without the wire I bounced with every step, bouncing > hurt. Wires kept the bounce down to nothing, no pain but uncomfortable. > > What I like is that they are big on having 4 hooks and eyes on the closure > all the way down to a size 36c, all other makers have 2. Four keeps my > rolls of fat from folding the side and back part. > > My FOH corset of 5 years is just now starting to pull at the decorative > part of the fabric seams but not the foundation. > > My recommendation is that if anyone gets the new ones you get the cotton > ones and then reinforce where the seams are with seam tape laid flat > against it and stitch down on either side about a quarter of an inch away > from the seam. Do this on the inside. This will help it last longer. I > would stay away from the satin ones. Pretty but not worth more than a > couple of sexy evenings with your partner of choice. > > I got two cotton ones a while back and niether one of them is showing any > signs of wear at the seams. I got lucky I think. Wish they still had that > one I would order two more and put them in storage. > > > Chiara > > Bice dEste said: > > The trouble with FOH corsets is they are not made to last. I have > > repaired more of these things than I care to count. Seams rip and/or > > separate they are not made for anyone with boobs period. And if you are > > a plus size. Forget it. I love Victoria's Secret as an example...any bra > > on the planet will fit me at a 38C or at most 38D. Will either VS or > > FOH? No. I have to buy a 44D or LARGER do you know what that does to my > > fragile psyche?? > > > > Bice > > ============================= > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > www.swapking.com/hats > > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > > Sent: January 29, 2004 8:28 AM > > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and > > are listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are > > starting to flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the > > Renaisance > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a > > clue-sorry NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace > > up the back? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > Ches > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:09:30 -0800 > From: kat@grendal.rain.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <4018DBDA.23054.122DFCF5@localhost> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > yes, some STILL think of it that way. My grandmother > > in Texas was one. And she was only an infant when the > > war ended. > > And it's not just the isolated people who think this way. It's a > "Deep South" cultural thing. There are also people out there who > still think that the south should secede from the rest of the US. > > Kat > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:10:16 -0500 > From: "Bice d'Este" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Yeah well...it's loosing the wieght. I loose so far then stop. Facing a > stomach surgery isn't fun when they say it's gotta come off it's gotta. And > when you have a bustline that is impressive by any guidelines (I had a > reduction when I was 19 so they are still high up there) My new VS was a two > hook was so pretty I had to have it. When I got it and realized that there > was no way on gods green earth that this "38C" was going around me I cried. > I then ran up to ebay and grabbed two extensions. I WILL wear this > thing.Sexy undies are impossible in a plus size.And then when they don't fit > even after this is what size you've worn for years...I estimated that > according to VS I'd need at least a 48C/D and that sucks. > > B~ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" > To: > Sent: January 29, 2004 12:45 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > > Hmmmm ... Bice and Fragile in the same sentence .... girl, you know how to > > make me smile confusedly. ;) > > > > Love you honey! > > > > For me, since I stopped breast feeding, VS fits nicely at a 38c. While I > > was slimming down from breast feeding I was at a 40d. Unfortunately I > > chose underwire so while it was an absolute fit, it was not comfortable. I > > stuck it out cause without the wire I bounced with every step, bouncing > > hurt. Wires kept the bounce down to nothing, no pain but uncomfortable. > > > > What I like is that they are big on having 4 hooks and eyes on the closure > > all the way down to a size 36c, all other makers have 2. Four keeps my > > rolls of fat from folding the side and back part. > > > > My FOH corset of 5 years is just now starting to pull at the decorative > > part of the fabric seams but not the foundation. > > > > My recommendation is that if anyone gets the new ones you get the cotton > > ones and then reinforce where the seams are with seam tape laid flat > > against it and stitch down on either side about a quarter of an inch away > > from the seam. Do this on the inside. This will help it last longer. I > > would stay away from the satin ones. Pretty but not worth more than a > > couple of sexy evenings with your partner of choice. > > > > I got two cotton ones a while back and niether one of them is showing any > > signs of wear at the seams. I got lucky I think. Wish they still had that > > one I would order two more and put them in storage. > > > > > > Chiara > > > > Bice dEste said: > > > The trouble with FOH corsets is they are not made to last. I have > > > repaired more of these things than I care to count. Seams rip and/or > > > separate they are not made for anyone with boobs period. And if you are > > > a plus size. Forget it. I love Victoria's Secret as an example...any bra > > > on the planet will fit me at a 38C or at most 38D. Will either VS or > > > FOH? No. I have to buy a 44D or LARGER do you know what that does to my > > > fragile psyche?? > > > > > > Bice > > > ============================= > > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > > www.swapking.com/hats > > > ============================= > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > > > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > > > Sent: January 29, 2004 8:28 AM > > > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and > > > are listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are > > > starting to flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the > > > Renaisance > > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a > > > clue-sorry NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace > > > up the back? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > Ches > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:28:11 EST > From: AlbertCat@aol.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > To: h-costume@indra.com > Message-ID: <53.4187af9.2d4aaabb@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > In a message dated 1/29/2004 1:10:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, > kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > > > There are also people out there who > > still think that the south should secede from the rest of the US. > > > > But not many. I don't live in the "deep" South but I do live in NC and there > are very very few who actually obsess over it. Those of us interested in > history [via clothes...and not] spend way more time on the Civil War than most > people. That stereotype "Forget, Hell" type is not that prevalent. Even a lot of > those who say they are that type, aren't. It's just so cute..... > > NOT! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:16:44 -0500 > From: "Bice d'Este" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > And an unlimited number of northerners who would let 'em. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: January 29, 2004 1:09 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > yes, some STILL think of it that way. My grandmother > > > in Texas was one. And she was only an infant when the > > > war ended. > > > > And it's not just the isolated people who think this way. It's a > > "Deep South" cultural thing. There are also people out there who > > still think that the south should secede from the rest of the US. > > > > Kat > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:51:37 -0700 > From: Sue Clemenger > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <40195639.1060407@in-tch.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > I'd imagine the Spandex in the fabric is what makes the "fit" possible > without cups, although I betcha it'd be less effective, and perhaps even > uncomfortable for those with a larger cup size. > The Renaissance corset looks like it wants to go under "wench" > garb....you could probably get the girls where you wanted, but the rest > of the silhouette still wouldn't look right. > If I still wore styles requiring corsetry, I'd want linen, I think, and > whatever boning or other stiffening was appropriate. But then, for me > it's clothing, and not some fantasy thing for fun with a partner or > under a modern costume. > --sue, who's never been big on the floofy girl stuff..... > > Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are > > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry > > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up > > the back? > > > > > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > > > Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245> > > &category%5Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245 > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > > > Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640> > > &category%5Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640 > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > End of h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 67 > **************************************** > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 16:23:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TLNSSd022686 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:23:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TLKq4S010150; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:20:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TLKp6Z041065; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:20:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu (IDENT:cu41754@jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.238]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TLK06c040333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:20:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from asj2001@columbia.edu) Received: from VAIO (dyn-shp-225-220.dyn.columbia.edu [160.39.225.220]) (user=asj2001 mech=LOGIN bits=0) by jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TKoPEh012581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:50:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002201c3e6a8$c18f15e0$9865fea9@VAIO> From: "Alexia S. Jacobs" To: References: <200401291901.i0TJ1H6Z031251@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:44:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bra sizes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How are bra sizes supposed to work anyway? Is the number supposed to be underbust measurement? Is it just a sizing scale? I am inclined to think it is rather arbitrary as I usually wear a 32/34 but my underbust measurement is 30 and my bust measurement is 36. (so is it the average of the two?) When people size me they generally take my bust measurement, but doesn't that tend to vary with cup size? The whole thing seems ridiculous. Strapless bras are the worst to find. When they are actually tight enough to stay up they make my back lumpy. (maybe I should try a longline one?) I generally end up with the saleswoman trying several sizes on me and prodding my breasts to make them sit right in them. By the end I become disoriented and lose all judgment as to what fits me and what doesn't. Sorry for the complaining. Off to buy a new strapless bra now! I wonder what size I will be this time. . . Alexia ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 2:01 PM Subject: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 67 > Send h-costume mailing list submissions to > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > h-costume-request@mail.indra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > (Bice d'Este) > 2. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > (AlbertCat@aol.com) > 3. Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? (Saragrace T. Knauf) > 4. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > (Bice d'Este) > 5. Re: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? (Bice d'Este) > 6. RE: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > (Saragrace T. Knauf) > 7. Re: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > (Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio) > 8. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > (kat@grendal.rain.com) > 9. Re: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? (Bice d'Este) > 10. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > (AlbertCat@aol.com) > 11. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > (Bice d'Este) > 12. Re: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? (Sue Clemenger) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:56:24 -0500 > From: "Bice d'Este" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Well in this case it was teens of my own age (I was born in '72) who had > always heard it reffered to as such. It was that or "Dreadful Conflict" > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: January 29, 2004 10:19 AM > Subject: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > yes, some STILL think of it that way. My grandmother > > in Texas was one. And she was only an infant when the > > war ended. > > > > ===== > > Seńora Catalina > > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save Ł80 > http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:37:27 EST > From: AlbertCat@aol.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > To: h-costume@indra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > In a message dated 1/29/2004 11:14:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, > wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com writes: > > > It was that or "Dreadful Conflict" > > > > I've always preferred "The Late Unpleasantness". > > [I heard a lady in Charleston refer to it this way....like nothing unpleasant > has happened since! Of course she was putting on her Southern Belle act.] > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:28:25 -0700 > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > Message-ID: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up > the back? > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245> > &category%5Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245 > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640> > &category%5Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:46:12 -0500 > From: "Bice d'Este" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Heh....been a while since I'd heard that one. That one seems to be a lower > countries term I've noticed. Seems to come from the Carolina's and that > area. > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: January 29, 2004 11:37 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > In a message dated 1/29/2004 11:14:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com writes: > > > > > It was that or "Dreadful Conflict" > > > > > > > I've always preferred "The Late Unpleasantness". > > > > [I heard a lady in Charleston refer to it this way....like nothing > unpleasant > > has happened since! Of course she was putting on her Southern Belle act.] > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:57:59 -0500 > From: "Bice d'Este" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > The trouble with FOH corsets is they are not made to last. I have repaired > more of these things than I care to count. Seams rip and/or separate they > are not made for anyone with boobs period. And if you are a plus size. > Forget it. I love Victoria's Secret as an example...any bra on the planet > will fit me at a 38C or at most 38D. Will either VS or FOH? No. I have to > buy a 44D or LARGER do you know what that does to my fragile psyche?? > > Bice > ============================= > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > www.swapking.com/hats > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > Sent: January 29, 2004 8:28 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up > the back? > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:27:05 -0700 > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > Subject: [h-cost] RE: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > To: "'Saragrace T. Knauf'" , > "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > Message-ID: <000c01c3e684$bbfedee0$6501a8c0@SG01> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I was having difficulty sending this file with the links. I wanted to try > to send it w/o them. If it reaches the sites, I will try again with the > links. > -----Original Message----- > From: Saragrace T. Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:28 AM > To: H-Costume@Indra. Com (h-costume@indra.com) > Subject: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up > the back? > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:45:54 -0600 (CST) > From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > To: > Message-ID: <38500.198.134.51.13.1075398354.squirrel@webmail.io.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hmmmm ... Bice and Fragile in the same sentence .... girl, you know how to > make me smile confusedly. ;) > > Love you honey! > > For me, since I stopped breast feeding, VS fits nicely at a 38c. While I > was slimming down from breast feeding I was at a 40d. Unfortunately I > chose underwire so while it was an absolute fit, it was not comfortable. I > stuck it out cause without the wire I bounced with every step, bouncing > hurt. Wires kept the bounce down to nothing, no pain but uncomfortable. > > What I like is that they are big on having 4 hooks and eyes on the closure > all the way down to a size 36c, all other makers have 2. Four keeps my > rolls of fat from folding the side and back part. > > My FOH corset of 5 years is just now starting to pull at the decorative > part of the fabric seams but not the foundation. > > My recommendation is that if anyone gets the new ones you get the cotton > ones and then reinforce where the seams are with seam tape laid flat > against it and stitch down on either side about a quarter of an inch away > from the seam. Do this on the inside. This will help it last longer. I > would stay away from the satin ones. Pretty but not worth more than a > couple of sexy evenings with your partner of choice. > > I got two cotton ones a while back and niether one of them is showing any > signs of wear at the seams. I got lucky I think. Wish they still had that > one I would order two more and put them in storage. > > > Chiara > > Bice dEste said: > > The trouble with FOH corsets is they are not made to last. I have > > repaired more of these things than I care to count. Seams rip and/or > > separate they are not made for anyone with boobs period. And if you are > > a plus size. Forget it. I love Victoria's Secret as an example...any bra > > on the planet will fit me at a 38C or at most 38D. Will either VS or > > FOH? No. I have to buy a 44D or LARGER do you know what that does to my > > fragile psyche?? > > > > Bice > > ============================= > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > www.swapking.com/hats > > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > > Sent: January 29, 2004 8:28 AM > > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and > > are listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are > > starting to flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the > > Renaisance > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a > > clue-sorry NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace > > up the back? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > Ches > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:09:30 -0800 > From: kat@grendal.rain.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <4018DBDA.23054.122DFCF5@localhost> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > yes, some STILL think of it that way. My grandmother > > in Texas was one. And she was only an infant when the > > war ended. > > And it's not just the isolated people who think this way. It's a > "Deep South" cultural thing. There are also people out there who > still think that the south should secede from the rest of the US. > > Kat > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:10:16 -0500 > From: "Bice d'Este" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Yeah well...it's loosing the wieght. I loose so far then stop. Facing a > stomach surgery isn't fun when they say it's gotta come off it's gotta. And > when you have a bustline that is impressive by any guidelines (I had a > reduction when I was 19 so they are still high up there) My new VS was a two > hook was so pretty I had to have it. When I got it and realized that there > was no way on gods green earth that this "38C" was going around me I cried. > I then ran up to ebay and grabbed two extensions. I WILL wear this > thing.Sexy undies are impossible in a plus size.And then when they don't fit > even after this is what size you've worn for years...I estimated that > according to VS I'd need at least a 48C/D and that sucks. > > B~ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" > To: > Sent: January 29, 2004 12:45 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > > Hmmmm ... Bice and Fragile in the same sentence .... girl, you know how to > > make me smile confusedly. ;) > > > > Love you honey! > > > > For me, since I stopped breast feeding, VS fits nicely at a 38c. While I > > was slimming down from breast feeding I was at a 40d. Unfortunately I > > chose underwire so while it was an absolute fit, it was not comfortable. I > > stuck it out cause without the wire I bounced with every step, bouncing > > hurt. Wires kept the bounce down to nothing, no pain but uncomfortable. > > > > What I like is that they are big on having 4 hooks and eyes on the closure > > all the way down to a size 36c, all other makers have 2. Four keeps my > > rolls of fat from folding the side and back part. > > > > My FOH corset of 5 years is just now starting to pull at the decorative > > part of the fabric seams but not the foundation. > > > > My recommendation is that if anyone gets the new ones you get the cotton > > ones and then reinforce where the seams are with seam tape laid flat > > against it and stitch down on either side about a quarter of an inch away > > from the seam. Do this on the inside. This will help it last longer. I > > would stay away from the satin ones. Pretty but not worth more than a > > couple of sexy evenings with your partner of choice. > > > > I got two cotton ones a while back and niether one of them is showing any > > signs of wear at the seams. I got lucky I think. Wish they still had that > > one I would order two more and put them in storage. > > > > > > Chiara > > > > Bice dEste said: > > > The trouble with FOH corsets is they are not made to last. I have > > > repaired more of these things than I care to count. Seams rip and/or > > > separate they are not made for anyone with boobs period. And if you are > > > a plus size. Forget it. I love Victoria's Secret as an example...any bra > > > on the planet will fit me at a 38C or at most 38D. Will either VS or > > > FOH? No. I have to buy a 44D or LARGER do you know what that does to my > > > fragile psyche?? > > > > > > Bice > > > ============================= > > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > > www.swapking.com/hats > > > ============================= > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > > > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > > > Sent: January 29, 2004 8:28 AM > > > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and > > > are listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are > > > starting to flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the > > > Renaisance > > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a > > > clue-sorry NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace > > > up the back? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > Ches > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:28:11 EST > From: AlbertCat@aol.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > To: h-costume@indra.com > Message-ID: <53.4187af9.2d4aaabb@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > In a message dated 1/29/2004 1:10:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, > kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > > > There are also people out there who > > still think that the south should secede from the rest of the US. > > > > But not many. I don't live in the "deep" South but I do live in NC and there > are very very few who actually obsess over it. Those of us interested in > history [via clothes...and not] spend way more time on the Civil War than most > people. That stereotype "Forget, Hell" type is not that prevalent. Even a lot of > those who say they are that type, aren't. It's just so cute..... > > NOT! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:16:44 -0500 > From: "Bice d'Este" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > And an unlimited number of northerners who would let 'em. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: January 29, 2004 1:09 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > yes, some STILL think of it that way. My grandmother > > > in Texas was one. And she was only an infant when the > > > war ended. > > > > And it's not just the isolated people who think this way. It's a > > "Deep South" cultural thing. There are also people out there who > > still think that the south should secede from the rest of the US. > > > > Kat > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:51:37 -0700 > From: Sue Clemenger > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <40195639.1060407@in-tch.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > I'd imagine the Spandex in the fabric is what makes the "fit" possible > without cups, although I betcha it'd be less effective, and perhaps even > uncomfortable for those with a larger cup size. > The Renaissance corset looks like it wants to go under "wench" > garb....you could probably get the girls where you wanted, but the rest > of the silhouette still wouldn't look right. > If I still wore styles requiring corsetry, I'd want linen, I think, and > whatever boning or other stiffening was appropriate. But then, for me > it's clothing, and not some fantasy thing for fun with a partner or > under a modern costume. > --sue, who's never been big on the floofy girl stuff..... > > Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are > > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry > > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up > > the back? > > > > > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > > > Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245> > > &category%5Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245 > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > > > Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640> > > &category%5Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640 > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > End of h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 67 > **************************************** > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 17:01:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TM1WSd022835 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:01:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TM0K4S014662; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:00:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TM0E6Z072596; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:00:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TM066Z072492 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:00:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 4BB80267D6; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:40:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust94.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.94]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 46BB32685F for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:40:12 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001f01c3e6b0$9dc91720$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401291901.i0TJ1H6Z031251@net.indra.com> <002601c3e6aa$084ae260$9865fea9@VAIO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:41:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try the curvy, higher neckline stays of the early-mid 18thc--much easier to get things to stay where you want 'em. With a slight curve inwards below the bust (to keep 'em up) you no longer have to push the bust itself in as far, which means they no longer get pushed up as far but still get the same amount of support. In general, the corsets between c1600 and the mid-late 18th century corset are a lot curvier than most think--the whole conical effect is very deceptive, and a too-conical shape is not accurate; if you can lay your corset out perfectly flat, it's cut wrong =}. (If anyone's interested in my effigy corset graphing project--it's far curvier than even I thought it would be--email me off-list and expect a bit of delay as life is very hectic atm). -E ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexia S. Jacobs" To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 2:54 PM Subject: [h-cost] RE: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? I have found, at least with my eighteenth century stays, that cupless corsets tend to push the breasts up enormously--in fact more than I would often like them to. The 18th century ideal was not to appear to have huge breasts. They were meant to rise above the neckline but not too much. I read somewhere that the tendency was to tuck the breasts down and outwards to achieve this, but mine eventually just rise again. Any suggestions? Alexia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 17:37:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TMbtSd022948 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:37:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TKwD4S007302; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:58:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TKvu6Z022909; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:57:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TKvo6Z022848 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:57:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m238.in-tch.com [216.166.191.238]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0TKZcc13584 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:35:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <40197480.60500@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:00:48 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? References: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> <40195639.1060407@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm actually pretty capable of making my own , I'm just playing around in non-corseted costuming areas these days. Someday, I'd like to do one 18th c. outfit (just for fun....don't have anywhere to wear it), and I'd do one of those half-boned corsets. I'd probably use fake whalebone for the bones. My elizabethan corsets/bodys used metal boning, and it definitely worked, but was really heavy. I think it'd be fun to experiment with other materials, though, like fake whalebone, or hemp cording, or reeds. --sue Bice d'Este wrote: > For a decent corset you want metal bones coutil or duck fabric and a lining > that won't scratch or make you sweat like a pig not to be inelegant over > it.There are any number of corsitiers out there who can get this for you in > any style you want. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 17:40:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TMegSd022976 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:40:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMcX4S019213; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:38:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMcV6Z003337; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:38:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMcM6Z003248 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:38:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.130.251]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 519906DE54 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:38:16 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:38:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bra sizes Message-ID: <40191AD6.12705.132407C6@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002201c3e6a8$c18f15e0$9865fea9@VAIO> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > How are bra sizes supposed to work anyway? Is the number supposed to > be underbust measurement? Is it just a sizing scale? I am inclined > to think it is rather arbitrary as I usually wear a 32/34 but my > underbust measurement is 30 and my bust measurement is 36. (so is it > the average of the two?) When people size me they generally take my > bust measurement, but doesn't that tend to vary with cup size? Supposedly, the bra band size is the undercup measurement plus 5", rounding up to the nearest even number. The cup size is determined by the difference between the bust measurement and the band size. Of course, I'm now blocking on what each cup size is for sure, but I think it is 1"=A, 2"=B, 3"=C, 4"=D, 5"=DD, etc. The problem is that not all bras fit exactly the same. Some brands are wayyyyy off. Some styles fit better than others. And, of course, there is the different way each person's breasts are shaped and their texture. Some people carry most of their breast in the very front, others have significant amounts of tissue off to the side (called "axillary lobe". Others have very perky breasts with most of the tissue above the nipple and others the opposite with most of the tissue drooping below the nipple. Some people have squishy malleable breasts, while others have dense immobile breasts. All of this plays into what works best in terms of bra structure. The luckiest people are the ones who wear size 34-38 B-D. 34-36 As have it pretty good too. There is a much greater selection for those people than the ones who have smaller or larger band sizes or whose cup sizes are larger than Ds. They can walk into just about every store and find something pretty that fits them. For the others, their best bet is VS or Nordstroms, or on-line such as herroom.com, title9sports.com, and bravissimo.com. Often stores will try to put you in very odd sizing unless (like Nordstrom's people) they really know how to do the measurements properly. I can't tell you how long I went braless because no one could find a bra I was comfortable in. (Well, except for a company called Figurenes which did the measurements properly but they only had one style and it was like a maternity bra!) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 17:46:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TMkOSd023006 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:46:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMig4S019789; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:44:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMie6Z008067; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:44:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf13.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf13.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.213]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMiZ6Z007964 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:44:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from muirgheal@charter.net) Received: from dewshine (cpe-24-196-247-126.spa.sc.charter.com [24.196.247.126]) by mxsf13.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.10/8.12.8) with SMTP id i0TMMMWF059853 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:22:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from muirgheal@charter.net) Message-ID: <002001c3e6b6$2147dd20$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> From: "Manly Summerfield" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401291901.i0TJ1H6Z031251@net.indra.com> <002201c3e6a8$c18f15e0$9865fea9@VAIO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bra sizes Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:20:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I read up on this recently as I have lost a fair amount of weight and needed all new stuff, including corsets. The lastest I have seen is that for the underbust measurement, you actually need to measure ABOVE the bust. Under your arms but high up on your chest. I wear a 32/34 underbust as well but my real measurement is 29. A 29 bra would be way to small. When I did the measurement the way it said (what ever IT was that I read this in .. who knows. Maybe http://barenecesities.com) I came out at about 33. which makes way more since. I hope that helps. Muirgheal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexia S. Jacobs" To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 3:44 PM Subject: [h-cost] Bra sizes > How are bra sizes supposed to work anyway? Is the number supposed to be > underbust measurement? Is it just a sizing scale? I am inclined to think > it is rather arbitrary as I usually wear a 32/34 but my underbust > measurement is 30 and my bust measurement is 36. (so is it the average of > the two?) When people size me they generally take my bust measurement, but > doesn't that tend to vary with cup size? The whole thing seems ridiculous. > Strapless bras are the worst to find. When they are actually tight enough > to stay up they make my back lumpy. (maybe I should try a longline one?) I > generally end up with the saleswoman trying several sizes on me and prodding > my breasts to make them sit right in them. By the end I become disoriented > and lose all judgment as to what fits me and what doesn't. Sorry for the > complaining. Off to buy a new strapless bra now! I wonder what size I will > be this time. . . > Alexia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 2:01 PM > Subject: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 67 > > > > Send h-costume mailing list submissions to > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > h-costume-request@mail.indra.com > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > (Bice d'Este) > > 2. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > (AlbertCat@aol.com) > > 3. Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? (Saragrace T. Knauf) > > 4. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > (Bice d'Este) > > 5. Re: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? (Bice d'Este) > > 6. RE: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > (Saragrace T. Knauf) > > 7. Re: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > (Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio) > > 8. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > (kat@grendal.rain.com) > > 9. Re: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? (Bice d'Este) > > 10. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > (AlbertCat@aol.com) > > 11. Re: "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > (Bice d'Este) > > 12. Re: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? (Sue Clemenger) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:56:24 -0500 > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > > Costumes > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Well in this case it was teens of my own age (I was born in '72) who had > > always heard it reffered to as such. It was that or "Dreadful Conflict" > > ============================= > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > www.swapking.com/hats > > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: January 29, 2004 10:19 AM > > Subject: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain Costumes > > > > > > > yes, some STILL think of it that way. My grandmother > > > in Texas was one. And she was only an infant when the > > > war ended. > > > > > > ===== > > > Seńora Catalina > > > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save > Ł80 > > http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:37:27 EST > > From: AlbertCat@aol.com > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > > Costumes > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > In a message dated 1/29/2004 11:14:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com writes: > > > > > It was that or "Dreadful Conflict" > > > > > > > I've always preferred "The Late Unpleasantness". > > > > [I heard a lady in Charleston refer to it this way....like nothing > unpleasant > > has happened since! Of course she was putting on her Southern Belle act.] > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:28:25 -0700 > > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > > Message-ID: <001e01c3e66b$c6a5ce30$6501a8c0@SG01> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and > are > > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a > clue-sorry > > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace > up > > the back? > > > > > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > > > > Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245> > > &category%5Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245 > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > > > > Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640> > > &category%5Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:46:12 -0500 > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > > Costumes > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Heh....been a while since I'd heard that one. That one seems to be a lower > > countries term I've noticed. Seems to come from the Carolina's and that > > area. > > ============================= > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > www.swapking.com/hats > > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: January 29, 2004 11:37 AM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > > > > > > > In a message dated 1/29/2004 11:14:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > > wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com writes: > > > > > > > It was that or "Dreadful Conflict" > > > > > > > > > > I've always preferred "The Late Unpleasantness". > > > > > > [I heard a lady in Charleston refer to it this way....like nothing > > unpleasant > > > has happened since! Of course she was putting on her Southern Belle > act.] > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:57:59 -0500 > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > The trouble with FOH corsets is they are not made to last. I have repaired > > more of these things than I care to count. Seams rip and/or separate they > > are not made for anyone with boobs period. And if you are a plus size. > > Forget it. I love Victoria's Secret as an example...any bra on the planet > > will fit me at a 38C or at most 38D. Will either VS or FOH? No. I have to > > buy a 44D or LARGER do you know what that does to my fragile psyche?? > > > > Bice > > ============================= > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > www.swapking.com/hats > > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > > Sent: January 29, 2004 8:28 AM > > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and > are > > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a > clue-sorry > > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace > up > > the back? > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:27:05 -0700 > > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > > Subject: [h-cost] RE: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > To: "'Saragrace T. Knauf'" , > > "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > > Message-ID: <000c01c3e684$bbfedee0$6501a8c0@SG01> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > I was having difficulty sending this file with the links. I wanted to try > > to send it w/o them. If it reaches the sites, I will try again with the > > links. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Saragrace T. Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:28 AM > > To: H-Costume@Indra. Com (h-costume@indra.com) > > Subject: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and > are > > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to > > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a > clue-sorry > > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace > up > > the back? > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 7 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:45:54 -0600 (CST) > > From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > To: > > Message-ID: <38500.198.134.51.13.1075398354.squirrel@webmail.io.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > Hmmmm ... Bice and Fragile in the same sentence .... girl, you know how to > > make me smile confusedly. ;) > > > > Love you honey! > > > > For me, since I stopped breast feeding, VS fits nicely at a 38c. While I > > was slimming down from breast feeding I was at a 40d. Unfortunately I > > chose underwire so while it was an absolute fit, it was not comfortable. I > > stuck it out cause without the wire I bounced with every step, bouncing > > hurt. Wires kept the bounce down to nothing, no pain but uncomfortable. > > > > What I like is that they are big on having 4 hooks and eyes on the closure > > all the way down to a size 36c, all other makers have 2. Four keeps my > > rolls of fat from folding the side and back part. > > > > My FOH corset of 5 years is just now starting to pull at the decorative > > part of the fabric seams but not the foundation. > > > > My recommendation is that if anyone gets the new ones you get the cotton > > ones and then reinforce where the seams are with seam tape laid flat > > against it and stitch down on either side about a quarter of an inch away > > from the seam. Do this on the inside. This will help it last longer. I > > would stay away from the satin ones. Pretty but not worth more than a > > couple of sexy evenings with your partner of choice. > > > > I got two cotton ones a while back and niether one of them is showing any > > signs of wear at the seams. I got lucky I think. Wish they still had that > > one I would order two more and put them in storage. > > > > > > Chiara > > > > Bice dEste said: > > > The trouble with FOH corsets is they are not made to last. I have > > > repaired more of these things than I care to count. Seams rip and/or > > > separate they are not made for anyone with boobs period. And if you are > > > a plus size. Forget it. I love Victoria's Secret as an example...any bra > > > on the planet will fit me at a 38C or at most 38D. Will either VS or > > > FOH? No. I have to buy a 44D or LARGER do you know what that does to my > > > fragile psyche?? > > > > > > Bice > > > ============================= > > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > > www.swapking.com/hats > > > ============================= > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > > > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > > > Sent: January 29, 2004 8:28 AM > > > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and > > > are listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are > > > starting to flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the > > > Renaisance > > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a > > > clue-sorry NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace > > > up the back? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > Ches > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 8 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:09:30 -0800 > > From: kat@grendal.rain.com > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > > Costumes > > To: Historical Costume > > Message-ID: <4018DBDA.23054.122DFCF5@localhost> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > > > > yes, some STILL think of it that way. My grandmother > > > in Texas was one. And she was only an infant when the > > > war ended. > > > > And it's not just the isolated people who think this way. It's a > > "Deep South" cultural thing. There are also people out there who > > still think that the south should secede from the rest of the US. > > > > Kat > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 9 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:10:16 -0500 > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Yeah well...it's loosing the wieght. I loose so far then stop. Facing a > > stomach surgery isn't fun when they say it's gotta come off it's gotta. > And > > when you have a bustline that is impressive by any guidelines (I had a > > reduction when I was 19 so they are still high up there) My new VS was a > two > > hook was so pretty I had to have it. When I got it and realized that there > > was no way on gods green earth that this "38C" was going around me I > cried. > > I then ran up to ebay and grabbed two extensions. I WILL wear this > > thing.Sexy undies are impossible in a plus size.And then when they don't > fit > > even after this is what size you've worn for years...I estimated that > > according to VS I'd need at least a 48C/D and that sucks. > > > > B~ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" > > To: > > Sent: January 29, 2004 12:45 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > > > > > Hmmmm ... Bice and Fragile in the same sentence .... girl, you know how > to > > > make me smile confusedly. ;) > > > > > > Love you honey! > > > > > > For me, since I stopped breast feeding, VS fits nicely at a 38c. While I > > > was slimming down from breast feeding I was at a 40d. Unfortunately I > > > chose underwire so while it was an absolute fit, it was not comfortable. > I > > > stuck it out cause without the wire I bounced with every step, bouncing > > > hurt. Wires kept the bounce down to nothing, no pain but uncomfortable. > > > > > > What I like is that they are big on having 4 hooks and eyes on the > closure > > > all the way down to a size 36c, all other makers have 2. Four keeps my > > > rolls of fat from folding the side and back part. > > > > > > My FOH corset of 5 years is just now starting to pull at the decorative > > > part of the fabric seams but not the foundation. > > > > > > My recommendation is that if anyone gets the new ones you get the cotton > > > ones and then reinforce where the seams are with seam tape laid flat > > > against it and stitch down on either side about a quarter of an inch > away > > > from the seam. Do this on the inside. This will help it last longer. I > > > would stay away from the satin ones. Pretty but not worth more than a > > > couple of sexy evenings with your partner of choice. > > > > > > I got two cotton ones a while back and niether one of them is showing > any > > > signs of wear at the seams. I got lucky I think. Wish they still had > that > > > one I would order two more and put them in storage. > > > > > > > > > Chiara > > > > > > Bice dEste said: > > > > The trouble with FOH corsets is they are not made to last. I have > > > > repaired more of these things than I care to count. Seams rip and/or > > > > separate they are not made for anyone with boobs period. And if you > are > > > > a plus size. Forget it. I love Victoria's Secret as an example...any > bra > > > > on the planet will fit me at a 38C or at most 38D. Will either VS or > > > > FOH? No. I have to buy a 44D or LARGER do you know what that does to > my > > > > fragile psyche?? > > > > > > > > Bice > > > > ============================= > > > > On Ebay http://snipurl.com/3csb > > > > http://my.lulu.com/kristalori > > > > Elizabethan Ladies Calendar > > > > Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern > > > > www.swapking.com/hats > > > > ============================= > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" > > > > To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" > > > > Sent: January 29, 2004 8:28 AM > > > > Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups > and > > > > are listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are > > > > starting to flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the > > > > Renaisance > > > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a > > > > clue-sorry NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must > lace > > > > up the back? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > h-costume mailing list > > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > > > Ches > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 10 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:28:11 EST > > From: AlbertCat@aol.com > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > > Costumes > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Message-ID: <53.4187af9.2d4aaabb@aol.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > In a message dated 1/29/2004 1:10:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > > > > > There are also people out there who > > > still think that the south should secede from the rest of the US. > > > > > > > But not many. I don't live in the "deep" South but I do live in NC and > there > > are very very few who actually obsess over it. Those of us interested in > > history [via clothes...and not] spend way more time on the Civil War than > most > > people. That stereotype "Forget, Hell" type is not that prevalent. Even a > lot of > > those who say they are that type, aren't. It's just so cute..... > > > > NOT! > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 11 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:16:44 -0500 > > From: "Bice d'Este" > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > > Costumes > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > > > And an unlimited number of northerners who would let 'em. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: January 29, 2004 1:09 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] "war of northern agression" was Cold Mountain > Costumes > > > > > > > > > > > yes, some STILL think of it that way. My grandmother > > > > in Texas was one. And she was only an infant when the > > > > war ended. > > > > > > And it's not just the isolated people who think this way. It's a > > > "Deep South" cultural thing. There are also people out there who > > > still think that the south should secede from the rest of the US. > > > > > > Kat > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 12 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:51:37 -0700 > > From: Sue Clemenger > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? > > To: Historical Costume > > Message-ID: <40195639.1060407@in-tch.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > > > I'd imagine the Spandex in the fabric is what makes the "fit" possible > > without cups, although I betcha it'd be less effective, and perhaps even > > uncomfortable for those with a larger cup size. > > The Renaissance corset looks like it wants to go under "wench" > > garb....you could probably get the girls where you wanted, but the rest > > of the silhouette still wouldn't look right. > > If I still wore styles requiring corsetry, I'd want linen, I think, and > > whatever boning or other stiffening was appropriate. But then, for me > > it's clothing, and not some fantasy thing for fun with a partner or > > under a modern costume. > > --sue, who's never been big on the floofy girl stuff..... > > > > Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > > > Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at > > > Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and > are > > > listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting > to > > > flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance > > > corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a > clue-sorry > > > NOI to anyonw who works for them!) > > > I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would > > > flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace > up > > > the back? > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > > > > > > Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245> > > > &category%5Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245 > > > > > > http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 > > > > > > Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640> > > > &category%5Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > End of h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 67 > > **************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 17:47:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TMlISd023009 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:47:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMkQ4S019967; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:46:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMkP6Z009460; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:46:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from yipvma.prodigy.net (yipvma-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMkJ6Z009395 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:46:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-225.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.225]) by yipvma.prodigy.net (8.12.10 out 1msg/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMEU2Y519658 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:14:36 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040129134819.05a4f230@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:56:56 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: "Self Sufficiency"; was Cold Mountain Costumes In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I really think this self sufficient American is a myth (with the >exception of a few special communities some of which has already been >mentioned. I used to believe it, but as I have learned more about this >country's history, and see the actual documents, a different story starts to >come alive. We have a lot of these myths. OTOH, my mother's family was on a one-family farm in Montana from before WWI to some time in the 1920s, after my mother was born. They considered themselves self-sufficient because they were living entirely off the products of that farm, directly or by trade or sale. They raised white-face Hereford cows to sell. There was a guy who would come around and turn people's cabbage into sauerkraut in trade for a share of the sauerkraut for himself. They had a milk cow and a vegetable garden, and my grandmother canned lots of what they grew. Self-sufficient meant, to them, like not being on welfare means to us. Family farm funny: They named their outhouse "Potsdam", after Kaiser Wilhelm's winter palace. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 18:00:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TN0HSd023058 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:00:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMua4S020873; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:56:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMuY6Z017056; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:56:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMuM6Z016914 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:56:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.130.251]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D15646ACC7 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:56:14 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:56:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <40191F0F.14975.1334843C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4018DBDA.23054.122DFCF5@localhost> References: <20040129151949.38784.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: bra sizes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I guess my memory for measuring is correct. However, for more information try: http://herroom.com/wmsbra.cfm This explains it in a lot more detail. (Their method is essentially the same as mine, they just "round" differently.) This chart also explains some of the discrepancies you find with bra sizing between the brands. ;) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 18:00:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TN0rSd023067 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:00:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TN004S021114; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMxx6Z019685; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:59:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com (tantalum.btinternet.com [194.73.73.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TMxt6Z019645 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:59:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stevie.gamble@btinternet.com) Received: from [81.129.59.75] (helo=dan) by uranium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1AmCBn-0005iF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:26:35 +0000 Message-ID: <002301c3e66b$be979480$4b3b8151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002301c3e5ea$81a30b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] muffs Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:28:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: >Has any of you tryed to make a muff? >I have never tryed it, but i thoaght about using watting in the interlinning. Would that >be all right? >Any suggestions greately apreciated ;-) Yes, indeed; I have a 'snake' and matching muff in grey rabbit fur copying late 18th century early 19th century styles. I used wadding which worked quite well, but I think chopped wool was used in period. But it would certainly be appropriate for 18th century menswear, though lining your waistcoat with grey squirrel would be even spiffier... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 18:14:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TNEQSd023129 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:14:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TNDU4S022232; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:13:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TNDR6Z030010; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:13:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TNDL6Z029928 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:13:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from pavilion (213-78-121-239.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.121.239]) by msgdirector4.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BKX68866; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:13:13 GMT Message-ID: <013001c3e6be$444122c0$ef794ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Brownie Guide Uniforms Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:13:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Yes, she does. I believe the middle name was commonly used when the sisters were young. Really I've never heard that, but they were old before I was young, my Mum's generation rather than mine :) I have managed to gather a good bit of info on uniforms now but still looking for those tiny details like badge pics etc ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 18:27:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TNRRSd023201 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:27:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TNP74S023280; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:25:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TNP56Z039067; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:25:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TNP06Z038907 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:25:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from BohunkfromHell@aol.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (v93.12) with ESMTP id RELAYIN8-9401992b3358; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:09:39 -0500 Received: from BohunkfromHell@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.155.2c4e3d87 (4262) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:04:21 -0500 (EST) From: BohunkfromHell@aol.com Message-ID: <155.2c4e3d87.2d4aeb74@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:04:20 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1920s Cabaret Costume--help! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I just joined this list and I have a question. I'm trying to make one of the cabaret outfits from the scene where Richard Gere sings "All I Care About is Love" from the movie "Chicago." Here's a picture, although not a very good one: http://www.efanguide.com/~chicago/pictures/vogue_04.jpg I'm trying to figure out what kind of fabric I'm going to use as the base for the hearts on the crotch, behind, and breasts. Also, betting the heart on the behind to lay properly may be a problem.... Does anyone have suggestions? Thank you! --Aja _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 18:45:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TNjtSd023273 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:45:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TNj44S024724; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TNis6Z053279; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:44:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TNip6Z053253 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:44:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marthakelly@nyc.rr.com) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) by nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.10/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id i0TMSNOl027295 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:28:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:28:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <200401292120.i0TLKX6b040768@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Re: ? - "What Clothes Reveal" -book vs. exhibit (AnnBWass@aol.com) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ann, I'll be there that week-end, too. My husband is driving me down from Brooklyn as a Valentine gift. Isn't that the BEST! If this list hadn't been discussing the show I would have missed it. And I'm actually READING the book right now, not just gazing at the pictures. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 18:47:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0TNlfSd023285 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:47:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TNkt4S024847; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:46:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TNkt6Z054708; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:46:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0TNka6Z054439 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:46:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a260.in-tch.com [66.62.107.60]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i0TNNqc23444 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:23:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <40199BEE.209@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:49:02 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "Self Sufficiency"; was Cold Mountain Costumes References: <4.3.1.2.20040129134819.05a4f230@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040129134819.05a4f230@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Really? (sue's ears perk up) Where in Montana? --sue, montana native.... Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > OTOH, my mother's family was on a one-family farm in Montana from before > WWI to some time in the 1920s, after my mother was born. They > considered themselves self-sufficient because they were living entirely > off the products of that farm, directly or by trade or sale. They > raised white-face Hereford cows to sell. There was a guy who would come > around and turn people's cabbage into sauerkraut in trade for a share of > the sauerkraut for himself. They had a milk cow and a vegetable garden, > and my grandmother canned lots of what they grew. Self-sufficient > meant, to them, like not being on welfare means to us. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 19:19:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0U0JDSd023444 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:19:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U0IP4S027122; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:18:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U0IK6Z075544; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:18:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U0IB6Z075382 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:18:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp118.pop1.net [209.102.125.168]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA05867 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:20:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp118.pop1.net [209.102.125.168] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <4019A2B7.7000607@pcez.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:17:59 -0800 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bra sizes References: <200401291901.i0TJ1H6Z031251@net.indra.com> <002201c3e6a8$c18f15e0$9865fea9@VAIO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings everyone, I'm also one of those well-endowed ladies (42DD) and 5'2", with some extra padding that I'm slowly loosing. Although the breast size hardly changes. My GYN told me that that he recommends to his patients who are large breasted to wear exercise bras and definetly no underwires. Well, I have been hunting for a nice looking soft cup bra because, sorry, exercise bras are not becoming and really do nothing for the figure. I found that Lane Bryant's has some really nice looking and more importantly comfortable soft cup bras. I have over the past several years have tried on all kinds of soft cups, and found that the ones I just bought from LB's over the holidays were the best. And they come in a great assortment of colors and have the 4 sets of hooks that some of you are looking for. I understand that Lane Bryant may have a catalog now. Has anyone ever heard that Lane Bryant's sister-store is Victoria's Secret. One of the sales clerks at VS's mentioned it to me and that they ofter suggest to their larger customers to go to LB's. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 19:45:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0U0jYSd023543 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:45:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U0iRcP001718; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:44:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U0iP6Z092222; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:44:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80504.mail.yahoo.com (web80504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0U0iN6Z092142 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:44:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lady_m_de_j@sbcglobal.net) Message-ID: <20040130003736.28603.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.94.150.100] by web80504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:37:36 PST Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:37:36 -0800 (PST) From: Maura Folsom To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200401292245.i0TMiu6a008321@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Digests within digests! Argh!!!Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 69 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO PLEASE, please, please trim off the extra text if you are replying to the digest, and only include the text to which you are replying. this last digest contained two digests quoted ENTIRE within it, and had only a few messages. This has been a problem lately, and I'm no moderator-just someone who is trying to read the digest in my limited free time. M. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 21:17:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0U2HWSd024002 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:17:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U2FOcP007338; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:15:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U2FLmT039664; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:15:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U2FHmU039633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:15:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U2FE8v023371 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:15:14 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i0U2FEYv023369 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:15:14 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bra sizes Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:15:13 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <200401291901.i0TJ1H6Z031251@net.indra.com> <002201c3e6a8$c18f15e0$9865fea9@VAIO> In-Reply-To: <002201c3e6a8$c18f15e0$9865fea9@VAIO> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401292115.13488.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 29 January 2004 03:44 pm, Alexia S. Jacobs wrote: > How are bra sizes supposed to work anyway? Is the number supposed to be > underbust measurement? Is it just a sizing scale? I am inclined to think > it is rather arbitrary as I usually wear a 32/34 but my underbust > measurement is 30 and my bust measurement is 36. (so is it the average of > the two?) No. However, cup size is based (or so I understand) on the ratio between the bust measurement and the underbust measurement, and it's easy enough to fall between cup sizes. People who do may find that a bra for a smaller "bust" measurement fits them better. >When people size me they generally take my bust measurement, but > doesn't that tend to vary with cup size? What do you mean by "vary"? It is possible, for example for three different women to measure 36 inches (going across the back and directly over the nipples). But *cup* size is an attempt to measure how much mass the breasts actually have. An "A" cup breast, which I have, tends to fit into the hand (even my small hands). "Bs" are larger, and so on. To use fruit metaphors, "A" breasts are strawberries, "Bs" and "Cs"more like apples or oranges, "Ds" grapefruit, "DDs" or "Es" watermelons, and I refuse to think about larger endowments. :-) >The whole thing seems ridiculous. > Strapless bras are the worst to find. When they are actually tight enough > to stay up they make my back lumpy. (maybe I should try a longline one?) Sounds like a good idea to me, if keeping it up is a problem. (This should eliminate the lumpiness, too.) I usually can't use strapless bras either. I'm a 32 A, and when the elastic on my bra begins to deteriorate, the bra just doesn't stay put any more. My preferred solution: buy the next smaller bust size, so that it's really tight. More often than not, though, I go braless in the type of clothes where one would use a strapless bra; it's simpler and more comfortable, and I don't need much support to do the kinds of things one usually does in strapless garments. :-) >I > generally end up with the saleswoman trying several sizes on me and > prodding my breasts to make them sit right in them. By the end I become > disoriented and lose all judgment as to what fits me and what doesn't. If you don't know a saleswoman whose judgement you trust, I suspect you will only build judgment about what fits and what doesn't by buying a number of bras and seeing how they feel, and how they look, as you wear them over time. Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 21:18:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0U2IdSd024008 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:18:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U2HPcP007449; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:17:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U2HMmT040616; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:17:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from uranium.btinternet.com (uranium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U2HKmT040595 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:17:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stevie.gamble@btinternet.com) Received: from [81.129.59.75] (helo=dan) by uranium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1AmJoK-0003W9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:34:52 +0000 Message-ID: <008201c3e6af$f4ec54a0$4b3b8151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <401421D9.5040705@in-tch.com><0d0901c3e390$8af343a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <40144670.7030205@in-tch.com><0d7101c3e42d$c95dba10$0400a8c0@compaqub> <401920CB.3040304@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:36:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Early 16th century Florentine gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I've been working on a very early 16th century Florentine gown since it combined two of my favourite factors; construction methods and fur. And I have to say that whilst I am in awe of Jen Thompson's research into this period I disagree almost entirely with her conclusions and the methods of construction she adopted. For those unfamiliar with her work the main page is: http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/diary/diary.html I decided to attempt a gown modelled on figures in Andrea del Sarto's 'Birth of the Virgin' 1513, part of a massive set of frescos in SS. Annunziata, Florence. Jen has a reproduction at: http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/florentine/flor6.html There are not many full length figures easily accessible for this period; many of the portraits are head and shoulders or upper body only, but it is in my view impossible to judge how a full length dress is constructed from a partial view of the top. And the Sarto fresco figures are three quarters front and a side view, which expands the information available to me. I'll summarise my methods and conclusions. I constructed the chemise or camisia from 3 large cylinders of fabric, pleated at the neckline, with no underarm gussets, and had no difficulties in movement. This is probably because I used a fine china silk, chosen to imitate a very fine period linen unavailable today. The characteristic puffs appeared as is by magic simply by pulling the fabric up between gown and sleeve. I had no need to use the gathering stitches which Jen had to use to create them. The gown was made of a silk chosen as similar in weight and drape to a very good quality dress weight wool; since this was a first attempt I had no intention of sacrificing my unbelievably expensive Italian wool satin:-) The skirt was a cylinder approximately five yards around since I see nothing in the full length figures to suggest a skirt any narrower, nor, indeed, any use of gores to provide flare. Jen relied upon grave clothes buried some fifty years later as a skirt pattern, but I see no method of achieving the fullness needed to lift the skirts to drape in the way shown with such a skimpy use of material. My skirt is approximately 12 inches, 30 cm too long for me, and this was sufficient for the look, though my next attempt may be even longer. I used the pattern suggested by Jen for the bodice, though I do not think the originals were cut with the shoulder strap at an angle. Cutting the straps at an angle creates an invitation to stretch hopelessly out of shape, and I think the most likely period method would have been to cut the shoulder straps on the grain of the fabric and then to shrink the outer curve so that the bodice line would still remain smooth. I did not cord the bodice or wear any form of undergarment other than the China silk chemise, and the interlining used for the bodice was domette, a very soft natural fibre. I hadn't lined it by the time I wore it last weekend; I wore it for 11 hours and there were no wrinkles on the bodice to start with, and still no wrinkles when I took it off. I fitted the bodice carefully using side/back seams, and lacing rings rather than eyelets since rings seem to be more common than eyelets in the images. I therefore conclude that there is no functional neccessity for cording or other forms of stiffening to achieve this look. I suspect that it is a fundamental error to assume that the look of an attached bodice depends on the construction of the bodice and bodice undergarments; the weight and construction of the skirt is also of paramount importance. I also question the sleeves chosen by Jen to add to the gown; again she has chosen an unusually small sleeve and used much later patterns to supplement her draping experiments. The sleeves shown in Sarto and the vast majority of other images are huge, and since some at least were lined or trimmed with fur, the weight of material and lining attached to the shoulder was much greater than Jen's choice suggests. Given that the shoulders are intended to sit almost at the falling off point, this is a fundamental requirement of any attempt to accurately reproduce the garment of the period. And it is of some significance to other early 16th century gowns with apparently no method of holding up vast sleeves. I was also dubious at the suggestion that the large sleeves are bell sleeves; they don't look like that to me. And rather than cut my material, and regret it, I chose instead to make simply a cylinder of the silk fabric 4 and a half feet around (1.4 metres) and the same measurement in length for each sleeve, though I seamed it only half of the way up, to give the split sleeve look of the fresco and other images. I attached lacing rings to the shoulder straps at the points shown on the Sarto figures, ie. just behind the centre shoulder point, and made a fascinating discovery. The bodice fits more securely on the shoulders with the sleeves attached at those top back points than it does without the sleeves at all. I simply folded the sleeve fabric over my forearms in the Sarto manner, picked up my skirts and was pleased to see that my first attempt looked as I had hoped. I suspect that more fabric in the sleeves and the skirt would improve it, but Teddy gave it the seal of approval. And it will probably please me more once I have added fur... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 22:20:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0U3KcSd024223 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 22:20:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U3IgcP011192; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 20:18:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U3IYmT071748; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 20:18:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U3IWmT071725 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 20:18:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ashleyw@erols.com) Received: from 216-164-239-16.s270.tnt4.frdb.va.dialup.rcn.com ([216.164.239.16] helo=ashley) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AmOsO-0005R6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:59:25 -0500 From: "Ashley Wells" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bra sizes Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:59:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c3e6dd$12be2d00$10efa4d8@ashley> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <40191AD6.12705.132407C6@localhost> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kat and List - Thanks for the quick and accurate summary of how to determine your "correct" bra size, as well as the note that this may not always work, although I have found it to be a great starting point - and usually it is right. If a style doesn't fit in my measured size, going up or down in cup and/or band size usually won't get a fit, either - the whole engineering of the particular bra style is just not suited to my body type - this isn't usually as big an issue for the more common sizes, but if you are on the fringes of the population, you will find more cut and fitting issues - bras are designed and cut with a sort of "small to medium" build in mind (see your explanation of individual breast shapes and types), where slight skewing in terms of top fullness vs. bottom fullness vs. outer fullness or inner fullness really won't make much of a fit disaster. The fitting for sizes further out from the "happy medium" gets very interesting, and fewer styles will fit. The band (number) measurement is meant to fit the bra to your back, or ribcage size, and places the cups where they belong on the front of your chest, rather than spreading under your arm pits, or way too squished in the front with half your boobs spilling out the sides. The cup (letter) size corresponds to just how much of you is sitting out in front of your ribcage/chest wall (this is the va-va-voom part), and is what keeps you safely ensconced, rather than spilling out the top, bottom, or sides of the cups. To complicate it a bit further, a "D" is not a "D" is not a "D" - depending on the band size. The spread and depth of the "D" cup "wires" must relate to the band size (just how broad is your chest, to keep those cups placed up front, instead of spreading under the arm pits, and so on). And the cut and size of the cup fabric for that "D" must also relate to that band size (4' bigger than what?). It really is complex, but totally ingenious - and a good grasp of the concepts has helped me fit custom stays, corsets, and bedlah bras, as well as a multitude of bodices, for 5 centuries-worth of costuming on many bodies. I also know my correct (and well fitting) bra size. Now, if only they would make it.... Regards, Ashley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jan 29 23:23:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0U4NmSd024477 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:23:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U4MccP014325; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:22:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U4MRXD016748; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:22:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U4MOXD016721 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:22:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0U2Zr918028 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AmOVZ-0000wl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:35:49 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Early 16th century Florentine gown Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:35:52 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c3e6d9$c7c64f60$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <008201c3e6af$f4ec54a0$4b3b8151@dan> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Stevie, were you intending to show us pictures of your gown? Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 00:06:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0U56KSd024564 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:06:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U54TcP016438; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 22:04:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U54QXD036531; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 22:04:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U54OXD036515 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 22:04:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-225.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.124.225]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10 550 close/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U45TUH019541 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 22:05:43 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040129141452.0594b930@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:14:54 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: "Self Sufficiency"; was Cold Mountain Costumes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I really think this self sufficient American is a myth (with the >exception of a few special communities some of which has already been >mentioned. I used to believe it, but as I have learned more about this >country's history, and see the actual documents, a different story starts to >come alive. We have a lot of these myths. OTOH, my mother's family was on a one-family farm in Montana from before WWI to some time in the 1920s, after my mother was born. They considered themselves self-sufficient because they were living entirely off the products of that farm, directly or by trade or sale. They raised white-face Hereford cows to sell. There was a guy who would come around and turn people's cabbage into sauerkraut in trade for a share of the sauerkraut for himself. They had a milk cow and a vegetable garden, and my grandmother canned lots of what they grew. Self-sufficient meant, to them, like not being on welfare means to us. Family farm funny: They named their outhouse "Potsdam", after Kaiser Wilhelm's winter palace. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 00:26:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0U5QxSd024593 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:26:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U5QKcP017466; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 22:26:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U5QHXD046855; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 22:26:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U5QGXD046842 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 22:26:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from matchlck@erols.com) Received: from 66-44-1-187.s441.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.1.187] helo=erols.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AmRAU-0004WG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:26:15 -0500 Message-ID: <401A1549.AD1BE687@erols.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:26:49 -0800 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113222945.00b0ca50@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Directions to Philly Fabric Source X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could someone be so kind as to repost or send to me the direction to the Lo-Mar (sp?) fabric warehouse in North Philadelphia? I have search the H-Costume archive and it is not there yet. I have lost the message and all I remember is to take I95 North exit 25 north of downtown Philly. Thank you time and trouble in advance. Your humble and obediant servant, David S Mallinak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 01:51:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0U6pbSd024965 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:51:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U6oucP020649; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:50:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U6opXD077831; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:50:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu (IDENT:cu41754@jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.238]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U6onXE077813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:50:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from asj2001@columbia.edu) Received: from VAIO (dyn-shp-225-220.dyn.columbia.edu [160.39.225.220]) (user=asj2001 mech=LOGIN bits=0) by jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U6omEh017393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:50:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005701c3e6fc$a0518530$9865fea9@VAIO> From: "Alexia S. Jacobs" To: References: <200401300504.i0U54mXD036757@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:45:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bra sizes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would like to thank everyone for the information. I have measured myself correctly and determined that, yes, I actually am a 32D, so thank you as well for the suggestions on where to find the rarer sizes! Alexia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 02:45:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0U7j5Sd018453 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 02:45:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U7hvcP022728; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:43:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U7hJXD099607; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:43:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from colossus.systems.pipex.net (colossus.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0U7hEXD099568 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:43:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by colossus.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 530521C001B8 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:24:02 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001001c3e702$016430c0$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401291901.i0TJ1H6Z031251@net.indra.com> <002601c3e6aa$084ae260$9865fea9@VAIO> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:23:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Austrians Lay Claim To Tartan X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Alpine archaeologists claim they started wearing tartan 1,000 years before the Scots:- http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=84106&command=displayContent&sourceNode=83936&contentPK=8670555 Linda Walton. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 05:27:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UAR7Sd019280 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 05:27:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UAQNcP029843; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:26:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UAQKXD064738; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:26:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from uranium.btinternet.com (uranium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UAQIXD064720 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:26:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stevie.gamble@btinternet.com) Received: from [81.129.62.56] (helo=dan) by uranium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1AmVqr-0003eY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:26:17 +0000 Message-ID: <000601c3e71b$b9d0ada0$383e8151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000c01c3e6d9$c7c64f60$6501a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 16th century Florentine gown Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:27:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sg wrote: > Stevie, were you intending to show us pictures of your gown? > Yup! When, that is, they are developed and I grapple with the horrors of actually setting up a web-page so that you can all see them:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 09:37:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UEaxSd021102 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:37:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UEZacP010392; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:35:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UEZTXD067608; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:35:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UEZNXD067561 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:35:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.149] (pm5-149.eos.net [205.133.149.149]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UEZKXw024896 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:35:21 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:35:37 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401300504.i0U54mXE036757@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 70 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> Yes, she does. I believe the middle name was commonly used when the > sisters were young. > > Really I've never heard that, but they were old before I was young, my Mum's > generation rather than mine :) Look at anything during WWII -- it's always "Princess Margaret Rose," which is so pretty! I have a very odd little piano from that era. A little silkscreened message on the keyboard says "As used by H.R.H. Princess Ingrid of Sweden and As used by H.R.H. Princess Elizabeth and Princess Margaret Rose of York." Of course I feel very elegant playing it! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 09:46:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UEk9Sd021195 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:46:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UEfwcP010777; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:41:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UEfvXD071154; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:41:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14005.mail.yahoo.com (web14005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0UEftXD071132 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:41:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040130144154.81524.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:41:54 GMT Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:41:54 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040129141452.0594b930@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] "Self Sufficiency"; was Cold Mountain Costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My father was born in 1923. They raised hereford and holstein cattle, kept hogs, mules, chickens and guinea hens. My granmother and aunts milked the cows and made butter and cheese. (I had some of the cheese when I was a child. It wasn't great, but it was cheese.) They had a vegetable garden, blackberry patches and a pecan grove. They sold most of the pecans and beef cattle for money for flour and sugar, and to pay for electricity when they finally got it. The cash crop was really cotton. That money paid for seed and yard goods. The children got one pair of boots and store bought dungarees (dress for the girls)for the start of the school year. The rest of their clothes were home made. Anyone else remember those floral print flour sacks? They raised cane for molasses but lacked the means to refine sugar.My great-grandmother apparently spun cotton into thread, but my grandmother didn't. Mules pulled the plows until they got a tractor in the 40's. The tractor was bought with money my father and his brothers sent home from their army pay. I think this was as self sufficient as it got in East Texas. ===== Seńora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save Ł80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 09:50:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UEooSd021232 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:50:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UElXcP011125; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:47:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UElUXD074078; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:47:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.159]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UElRXD074037 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:47:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-121-150.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.121.150]) by msgdirector3.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id BRI66552; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:42:36 GMT Message-ID: <0bb701c3e73f$4b752470$49a14ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 70 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:42:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Look at anything during WWII -- it's always "Princess Margaret Rose," Yes with the Princess Just refering to a Princess without her title threw me :) It could be any Margaret Rose, I'm sure there were or are plenty ;) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 10:10:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UFAESd021934 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:10:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UF5NcP012240; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:05:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UF5IXD083768; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:05:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net (badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UF5EXD083741 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:05:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0TGUaO15893; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:30:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AmF37-000137-00; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:29:49 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: , Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:29:50 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01c3e685$1efc5cc0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FW: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks?-trying again with links X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0UFAESd021934 Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: Saragrace T. Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:28 AM To: H-Costume@Indra. Com (h-costume@indra.com) Subject: Interesting 'Trend' in corsets at Fredericks? Sorry for the cross-posts folks....Here is an intersting 'trend' at Fredererick's of Hollywood. Neither of these two corsets have cups and are listed as fitting sizes 32 to 44! Notice that the breasts are starting to flatten in this model.....hmmm, one is even called the Renaisance corset...(must be the curved neckline...can't be that they have a clue-sorry NOI to anyonw who works for them!) I bet on someone like myself who does not have implants, that I would flatten out quite nicely. They aren't really that expensive...must lace up the back? http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 &category%5Fname=Corsets-All&product%5Fid=51245 http://www.fredericks.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Holiday2002 &category%5Fname=Bridal%2DCorset&product%5Fid=50640 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 10:36:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UFa4Sd022284 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:36:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UFVccP014159; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:31:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UFVZXD099814; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:31:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UFVTXE099729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:31:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i0UFpPWm009652 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:51:25 -0500 Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.112] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A65B9580013E; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:20:59 -0500 Message-ID: <001601c3e746$d4c1bf20$705183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:36:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Phoenix waverly X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0UFa4Sd022284 Status: RO Have any of you looked at the new waverly fabrics at fabric.com? There are some winners there I think. My mind is already abuzz with 18th C ideas. Sigh, and no time to sew. Of course the stash is already beckoning me with "Me Next"! Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 13:14:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UIEmSd023591 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:14:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UIC9cP029001; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:12:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UIC2XD022101; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:12:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UIBvXD022034 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:11:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skud@infotrope.net) Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CC8736EB3 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:11:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1Amd7U-0002Px-00 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:11:56 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Phoenix waverly In-Reply-To: <001601c3e746$d4c1bf20$705183d1@rmitchellras> References: <001601c3e746$d4c1bf20$705183d1@rmitchellras> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:11:56 -0500 Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathleen wrote: > Have any of you looked at the new waverly fabrics at fabric.com? There are some winners there I think. My mind is already abuzz with 18th C ideas. Sigh, and no time to sew. Of course the stash is already beckoning me with "Me Next"! Oh my goodness! They're beautiful! It's not even my period and I'm dying to make something now! What do you think of this stripe (http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/wv-078.html) for a skirt, and this (http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/wv-070.html) for a caraco jacket, for a sort of middle class look? Tempting, tempting... but I don't *do* 18th century! I'd have nowhere to wear it! SOMEONE STOP ME NOW! K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 13:30:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UIUmSd023652 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:30:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UITncP000889; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:29:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UITjXD036412; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:29:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from charlevoix.vervehosting.com (charlevoix.vervehosting.com [209.50.239.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UIThXE036347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:29:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from historian@reconstructinghistory.com) Received: from bee-100-24.thebeenet.com ([216.83.100.24] helo=Kass) by charlevoix.vervehosting.com with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AmdOc-0001Ax-Qh for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:29:39 -0500 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Phoenix waverly Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:29:34 -0500 Message-ID: <002f01c3e75f$048acae0$186453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - charlevoix.vervehosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - reconstructinghistory.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh my goodness! They're beautiful! It's not even my period and I'm dying to make something now! What do you think of this stripe (http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/wv-078.html) for a skirt, and this (http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/wv-070.html) for a caraco jacket, for a sort of middle class look? >>>> Ooooooooo... >>>> Tempting, tempting... but I don't *do* 18th century! I'd have nowhere to wear it! SOMEONE STOP ME NOW! >>>> Not a chance. You're asking the wrong bunch, Kirrily! We're doing an 18thc Tavern Night in Newtown, Pennsylvania 20 March. Wanna come? Kass Reconstructing History Patterns http://reconstructinghistory.com Join Our Pattern Discussion List: http://reconstructinghistory.com/mailman/listinfo/patterns_reconstructin ghistory.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 14:02:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UJ2SSd023767 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:02:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UIvjcP003439; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:57:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UIvhXD057868; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:57:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.primushost.com (smtp1.primushost.com [209.58.220.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UIvZXE057693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:57:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1AmdpY-0000Z2-Or; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:57:28 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1AmdkH-000069-00; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:52:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:52:01 -0500 (EST) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002f01c3e75f$048acae0$186453d8@Kass> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] DAR Museum calicos X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a friend that is searching for a calico print from the DAR Museum collection of prints by P&B textiles. It seems to be discontinued. if anyone can give me any leads on someplace that might still have it she would be thrilled. Thanks Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 14:18:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UJInSd023823 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:18:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UJHpcP005163; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:17:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UJHmXD073630; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:17:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9403.mail.yahoo.com (web9403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0UJHhXD073576 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:17:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040130191742.73265.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:17:42 PST Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:17:42 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: RE: [h-cost] Phoenix waverly To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002f01c3e75f$048acae0$186453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sure wish Newton ,Penn was'nt so far away from Ventura,California:( That really sounds like fun---and 18th century is'nt even my time period either.As it is--that weekend we will be putting a Beowulf themed 3 day event up in the mountains of santa barbara.The local costumners have been 'boning up' on their Anglo- Saxon and Viking costumning research.While I've enjoyed it all very much --I'm itching to get back to some of my later period(1560's) Italian and French gowns. On the other hand-I've always wanted to try my hand at an 18th century gown-----I re-viewed Les Laisons Dangereuses the other night) Sigh!! LOL--too many interesting looking time periods---and too little time--!! Albra historian@reconstructinghistory.com wrote: Oh my goodness! They're beautiful! It's not even my period and I'm dying to make something now! What do you think of this stripe (http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/wv-078.html) for a skirt, and this (http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/wv-070.html) for a caraco jacket, for a sort of middle class look? >>>> Ooooooooo... >>>> Tempting, tempting... but I don't *do* 18th century! I'd have nowhere to wear it! SOMEONE STOP ME NOW! >>>> Not a chance. You're asking the wrong bunch, Kirrily! We're doing an 18thc Tavern Night in Newtown, Pennsylvania 20 March. Wanna come? Kass Reconstructing History Patterns http://reconstructinghistory.com Join Our Pattern Discussion List: http://reconstructinghistory.com/mailman/listinfo/patterns_reconstructin ghistory.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 14:27:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UJR7Sd023847 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:27:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UJKucP005416; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:20:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UJKtXD075941; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:20:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UJK5XD075260 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:20:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.94] (pm7-094.eos.net [205.133.149.94]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UJJvXx015893 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:19:59 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:20:13 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401292245.i0TMiu6a008321@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 69 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Alexia wrote: > How are bra sizes supposed to work anyway? Is the number supposed to be > underbust measurement? Is it just a sizing scale? I am inclined to think > it is rather arbitrary as I usually wear a 32/34 but my underbust > measurement is 30 and my bust measurement is 36. (so is it the average of > the two?) When people size me they generally take my bust measurement, but > doesn't that tend to vary with cup size? The whole thing seems ridiculous. > Strapless bras are the worst to find. When they are actually tight enough > to stay up they make my back lumpy. (maybe I should try a longline one?) I > generally end up with the saleswoman trying several sizes on me and prodding > my breasts to make them sit right in them. By the end I become disoriented > and lose all judgment as to what fits me and what doesn't. Sorry for the > complaining. Off to buy a new strapless bra now! I wonder what size I will > be this time. . . The important thing is the difference between your bust and rib cage measurement. A couple of months ago I had to get new bras because the style I always bought was discontinued. NOTHING in the store fit in the size I thought I wore, so I got the measurer to help me out. It turned out that I needed a whole new size! I had lost some weight, so though my bust size was the same, my rib cage was smaller. I needed a 34D instead of a 36C. Even though I understood the ratio, I thought it was bizarre that I needed a bigger cup size when I'd lost weight! But everything I tried on in that size fit. If you need to wear a strapless bra often, or for any length of time, I recommend that you go to a bridal shop and forget regular department stores or Victoria's Secret type places. They have strapless bras that are actually comfortable, that actually work, and that don't fall down. They cost more, but that's why. In my experience, "foundation" garments in regular stores are just jokes. They don't do anything. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 14:27:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UJRtSd023856 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:27:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UJKpcP005400; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:20:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UJKpXD075873; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:20:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UJJxXD075179 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:19:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.94] (pm7-094.eos.net [205.133.149.94]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UJJvXw015893 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:19:57 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:20:12 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401292120.i0TLKX6a040768@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 68 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bice wrote > For a decent corset you want metal bones coutil or duck fabric and a lining > that won't scratch or make you sweat like a pig not to be inelegant over > it.There are any number of corsitiers out there who can get this for you in > any style you want. > Yes, but not for less than $60. I think it's great that people can try something out for a fairly affordable price (there were many times in my life when $50 or $60 wouldn't have been affordable) rather than choose between a custom garment they're not sure they want or nothing at all. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 15:03:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UK3WSd024072 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:03:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UJvbcP008530; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:57:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UJvXXD003170; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:57:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UJvPXD003022 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:57:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.198]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 250045EE2B8 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:57:18 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002001c3e76b$4bcfc390$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:57:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 18th century push up stays X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0UK3WSd024072 Status: RO Alexia you said something about the corset were pushing your breast two high. You could prevent this, by altering your bustwidth and make it bigger! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 15:17:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UKHLSd024117 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:17:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UKEXcP009743; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:14:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UKESXD015488; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:14:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UKEJXD015373 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:14:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.131.46]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ECCE6AB81 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:14:16 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:14:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] bra sizes Message-ID: <401A4A95.15461.17C6BA74@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <200401292245.i0TMiu6a008321@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Date sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:20:13 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Copies to: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 69 Send reply to: Historical Costume > Alexia wrote: > > > How are bra sizes supposed to work anyway? Is the number supposed > > to be underbust measurement? Is it just a sizing scale? I am > > inclined to think it is rather arbitrary as I usually wear a 32/34 > > but my underbust measurement is 30 and my bust measurement is 36. > > (so is it the average of the two?) When people size me they > > generally take my bust measurement, but doesn't that tend to vary > > with cup size? The whole thing seems ridiculous. Strapless bras are > > the worst to find. When they are actually tight enough to stay up > > they make my back lumpy. (maybe I should try a longline one?) I > > generally end up with the saleswoman trying several sizes on me and > I needed a > 34D instead of a 36C. Even though I understood the ratio, I thought it > was bizarre that I needed a bigger cup size when I'd lost weight! But > everything I tried on in that size fit. That's the part that many people have trouble imagining. I learned about it when I was going to Janzen Swimwear fabric outlet stores. They sold them and had them labeled "34D/36C/38B" for the underwires. The cup changes shape with the band size too. A D cup in a smaller band size has about the same "lift" as the D cup in the larger bands sizes. But the spread is much greater because the band/cup proportion is different. Tends to seem arcane until you have actually made a few. Then the "aha!" light seems to go off over one's head. Chances are that there wasn't as much loss in the breast tissue itself as you had lost across your back. People put a surprising amount of "weight layering" across their backs. That would account for basically the same size breast tissue but smaller band size. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 15:48:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UKmASd024171 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:48:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UKfgcP012180; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:41:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UKfaXD035737; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:41:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UKfRXD035565 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:41:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.198]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3EA1E262B0C for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:41:21 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <008401c3e771$7552b0a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:41:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] who is here X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i0UKmASd024171 Status: RO I would like to know who is on the list at pressent time. Thankyou Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 16:11:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0ULAwSd024209 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:10:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UL3mcP013998; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:03:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UL3jXD051555; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:03:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.26]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UL3fXD051461 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:03:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from there (d14-69-189-68.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.68.189]) by pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i0UKF9P29082 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:15:09 -0600 Message-Id: <200401302015.i0UKF9P29082@pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michelle Plumb To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Phoenix waverly Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:15:55 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] References: <001601c3e746$d4c1bf20$705183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wonder what could be done with these? http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/dpsr-057.html http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/dpsr-056.html Here's the main page with the rest of the colors: http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/fabric-home-decorating-just-arrived-dupioni-silk-stripe.html Scrummy. Michelle in arctic Michigan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 16:17:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0ULH0Sd024222 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:17:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UL7icP014278; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:07:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UL7hXD054654; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:07:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UL7dXE054612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:07:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0UL4HPp012671 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:04:17 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:04:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <401AC798.7080108@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:07:36 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] who is here/Mailman program failure References: <008401c3e771$7552b0a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <008401c3e771$7552b0a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: Elizabeth Lear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > I would like to know who is on the list at pressent time. The link at the bottom of each message takes anyone to the info page, but it's supposed to let members see a list of who is on the list. When I tried it, twice, it failed. I've cc'd the administrator and maybe she can figure out what happened. > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 16:17:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0ULHRSd024227 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:17:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ULC5cP014664; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:12:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ULC2XD057820; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:12:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ULBxXD057758 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:12:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01315 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:40:54 -0600 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:40:54 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] who is here In-Reply-To: <008401c3e771$7552b0a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > I would like to know who is on the list at pressent time. Go here: http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume At the bottom of the page, sign in and click "Visit Subscriber List." You'll get a full list of email addresses. Right now we have 315 addresses on regular delivery, and 220 on digest. Some people have more than one address subscribed. (I have two, so I can read from my web-box when I travel.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 17:48:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UMmTSd024457 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:48:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UMkhdN022394; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:47:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UMIHXD005560; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:18:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UMICXD005486; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:18:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01533; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:11:01 -0600 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:11:01 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] who is here/Mailman program failure In-Reply-To: <401AC798.7080108@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Elizabeth Lear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > The link at the bottom of each message takes anyone to the info page, > but it's supposed to let members see a list of who is on the list. > When I tried it, twice, it failed. I've cc'd the administrator and > maybe she can figure out what happened. Funny. Worked for me just now. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 18:41:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0UNfXSd024733 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 18:41:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UNbbcP027885; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:37:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UNbXXD062715; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:37:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0UNbVXD062691 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:37:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from theresa@misc.com) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0UMbuq1011449 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:37:57 -0800 Message-ID: <401ADC2F.8080008@misc.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:35:27 -0800 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Phoenix waverly References: <001601c3e746$d4c1bf20$705183d1@rmitchellras> <200401302015.i0UKF9P29082@pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mid-1880's through 1890's comes to mind...fun chevroning and other visual effects with directional shifting!!! Theresa Eacker Michelle Plumb wrote: > I wonder what could be done with these? > > http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/dpsr-057.html > http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/dpsr-056.html > > Here's the main page with the rest of the colors: > http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/fabric-home-decorating-just-arrived-dupioni-silk-stripe.html > > Scrummy. > Michelle in arctic Michigan > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 20:58:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0V1wTSd025548 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:58:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V1uMcP011660; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 18:56:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V1uGXD037309; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 18:56:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V1uEXE037293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 18:56:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0V1uQlQ021776 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:56:27 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] who is here Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:56:25 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <008401c3e771$7552b0a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Bjarne! I am here. Regina Romsey, SCA member, founding member for the SCA Kingdom of Drachenwald (then Principality of Drachenwald), and its 5th Princess. I now live in the SCA Kingdom of AnTir, and the US State of Oregon (that's pronounced Or Y Gun, Or Y gone, or Or a gone :-). I love your posts and the pictures even though it isn't a period for me. Creative genius is good for the soul! Regina Romsey > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 12:42 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] who is here > > > I would like to know who is on the list at pressent time. > Thankyou > Bjarne > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 21:02:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0V22oSd025585 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:02:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V223cP011972; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V220XD039450; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:02:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0V21vXD039430 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:01:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.119.192.103 with login) by smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2004 01:55:17 -0000 Message-ID: <007301c3e79d$3f704570$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113222945.00b0ca50@64.87.54.245> <401A1549.AD1BE687@erols.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Directions to Philly Fabric Source Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:55:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO David, The store is actually Jo-Mar fabrics -- try searching the archives again for "Philadelphia" -- I'm pretty sure there's a thread called something like "Philadelphia - things to see" that has directions in a few posts. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jan 30 23:37:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0V4b1Sd026089 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 23:37:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V4ZJcP017611; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:35:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V4ZAXD094627; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:35:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from blondie.gower.net (blondie.gower.net [205.230.30.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V4Z6XE094577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:35:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vbetts@gower.net) Received: from gower.net (user-37.annex-04.tyler.tx.gower.net [208.218.191.180]) by blondie.gower.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0V4TEu30144 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:29:15 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from vbetts@gower.net) Message-ID: <401B2F14.AE3ED275@gower.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:29:08 -0600 From: Vicki Betts X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Self Sufficiency" References: <20040130144154.81524.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > > My father was born in 1923. (clipped) The rest of their clothes were home made. Anyone else remember those floral print flour > sacks? They raised cane for molasses but lacked the means to refine sugar.My great-grandmother apparently > spun cotton into thread, but my grandmother didn't. Mules pulled the plows until they got a tractor in the > 40's. The tractor was bought with money my father and his brothers sent home from their army pay. I think > this was as self sufficient as it got in East Texas. Your family sounds like a carbon of mine, only my grandfather (b. 1880) also had a couple of cotton gins, a small lumber mill, and a bank in Cass County, Texas. By the 1920s he left the farm to the thirteen kids to run--they plowed behind mules and helped pick the cotton with some seasonal workers. We've got pictures of my father (b.1922, #12 kid) and his brothers in those overalls, barefoot, playing on cotton bales. He can remember the spinning wheel in the shed, which he helped to demolish by playing with it, but he doesn't remember it ever being used. The sewing machine got a lot of use, though. Last spring, one of the presentations at the regional ALHFAM meeting in Baton Rouge was by a Ph.D. student at Louisiana State University. She spoke on clothing made from flour sacks. Someone had donated their collection with the storebought patterns to the clothing collection at LSU. The student collected oral and written history, analyzed the sacks and their origin, compared the clothing to the patterns, and noted how sack width affected dress design. Vicki Betts vbetts@gower.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 00:38:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0V5c4Sd026400 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:38:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V5YvcP019516; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:34:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V5YqXD015011; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:34:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V5YpXD014994 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:34:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from matchlck@erols.com) Received: from 66-44-0-231.s231.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.0.231] helo=erols.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AmnmK-0000FE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:34:48 -0500 Message-ID: <401B68D0.1CAFD932@erols.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:35:28 -0800 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Directions to Philly Fabric Source References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113222945.00b0ca50@64.87.54.245> <401A1549.AD1BE687@erols.com> <007301c3e79d$3f704570$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > The store is actually Jo-Mar fabrics -- try searching the archives again for > "Philadelphia" -- I'm pretty sure there's a thread called something like > "Philadelphia - things to see" that has directions in a few posts. Thanks, I got only two of the 43 hits. They mention Jo-Mar (Jan 2003) but don't give directions. Also I believe that the archive does not yet have any 2004 material and the email I am looking Jan 14. Your humble and obediant servant, David S Mallinak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 02:23:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0V7NmSd011155 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 02:23:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V7LgcP022566; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:21:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V7LcXD049780; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:21:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0V7LaXD049762 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:21:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0V67GQ12988 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 01:07:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from dialup-64.158.115.4.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([64.158.115.4] helo=4gxif) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AmoHj-0006Qg-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 01:07:15 -0500 Message-ID: <020001c3e7c0$99762620$04739e40@4gxif> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113222945.00b0ca50@64.87.54.245><401A1549.AD1BE687@erols.com> <007301c3e79d$3f704570$ea44fea9@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Directions to Philly Fabric Source Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 01:08:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The address for Jo-Mar's factory building store is: Jo-Mar Factory Inc 3525 I St Philadelphia, PA 19134 Phone: (215) 634-5802 You should be able to get driving directions from Yahoo!Maps or Mapquest. There are a couple of satellite stores in the burbs as well. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 05:49:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0VAnlSd020844 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:49:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VAnEcP000113; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 03:49:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VAn7XD026192; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 03:49:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VAn3XE026170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 03:49:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0VAjgPp016663 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:45:42 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:45:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <401B881D.1060502@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:49:01 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Self Sufficiency" References: <20040130144154.81524.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> <401B2F14.AE3ED275@gower.net> In-Reply-To: <401B2F14.AE3ED275@gower.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Vicki Betts wrote: > Last spring, one of the presentations at the regional ALHFAM meeting in > Baton Rouge was by a Ph.D. student at Louisiana State University. She > spoke on clothing made from flour sacks During the war, my mother's family kept chickens, and chicken feed also came in patterned fabrics which were made into blouses, etc, for everyday use. My mother recalls her mother sending my grandfather back to the store to return a sack with a print she didn't like. This was suburban Maine, more or less. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - B. Franklin, 1759 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 10:24:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0VFO9Sd021546 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:24:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VEwlcP008840; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 07:58:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VEwfXD020010; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 07:58:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from blondie.gower.net (blondie.gower.net [205.230.30.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VEwcXE019930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 07:58:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vbetts@gower.net) Received: from gower.net (user-37.annex-04.tyler.tx.gower.net [208.218.191.180]) by blondie.gower.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0VEwUu40266 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:58:30 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from vbetts@gower.net) Message-ID: <401BC28B.9FCEA906@gower.net> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:58:19 -0600 From: Vicki Betts X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Self Sufficiency" References: <20040130144154.81524.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> <401B2F14.AE3ED275@gower.net> <401B881D.1060502@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Argh! I mis-remembered. It *was* chicken feed sack clothing that she was researching. I knew that printed cotton feed bags used for clothing was common in the South from the Depression era on into the War (at least), but I hadn't realized that it was also common that far North. The grad student didn't mention when it ended, or at least I assume it ended. All I see nowadays are 50 lb. paper bags. Vicki Betts vbetts@gower.net Cynthia Virtue wrote: > During the war, my mother's family kept chickens, and chicken feed also > came in patterned fabrics which were made into blouses, etc, for > everyday use. My mother recalls her mother sending my grandfather back > to the store to return a sack with a print she didn't like. > > This was suburban Maine, more or less. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 11:20:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0VGKdSd021777 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:20:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VGGlcl012110; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:17:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VFp2XD041398; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:51:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i0VFoxXD041363 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:50:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OpyuXCABcnVbEG7BPQoOan8=">; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 07:50:21 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JL8Y2JE8; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 07:50:21 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 07:27:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] who is here Message-ID: <20040131.074942.1176.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,6-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, Bjarne! I'm Arlys o Gordon in the SCA, and live not too far from Regina in the the Kingdom of An Tir. I'm a founding member of a branch west of Portland, Oregon. I don't costume but do embroider some) (I'm a music geek), but have learned a lot here and been inspired by many of the things people do here. Love your work. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 12:29:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0VHTWSd021995 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:29:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VHSncP015278; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:28:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VHSlXD083605; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:28:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VHShXD083532 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:28:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-157-61.client.comcast.net [24.21.157.61]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0VHSaT01722 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:28:36 -0500 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:36:11 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Self Sufficiency" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <401BC28B.9FCEA906@gower.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I have two aprons that my grandmother made from seed bags in the 1940s. I wear the pretty red and white one when I cook Christmas dinner. :D Althea On Saturday, January 31, 2004, at 06:58 AM, Vicki Betts wrote: > Argh! I mis-remembered. It *was* chicken feed sack clothing that she > was researching. I knew that printed cotton feed bags used for > clothing > was common in the South from the Depression era on into the War (at > least), but I hadn't realized that it was also common that far North. > The grad student didn't mention when it ended, or at least I assume it > ended. All I see nowadays are 50 lb. paper bags. > > Vicki Betts > vbetts@gower.net > > Cynthia Virtue wrote: > >> During the war, my mother's family kept chickens, and chicken feed >> also >> came in patterned fabrics which were made into blouses, etc, for >> everyday use. My mother recalls her mother sending my grandfather >> back >> to the store to return a sack with a print she didn't like. >> >> This was suburban Maine, more or less. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 12:54:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0VHsHSd022084 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:54:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VHnqcP016341; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:49:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VHnpXD093660; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:49:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VHnlXD093604 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:49:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-157-61.client.comcast.net [24.21.157.61]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0VHnfT07202 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:49:41 -0500 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:57:17 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] who is here Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20040131.074942.1176.0.Cley@juno.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hello everyone, I am Althea Turner, a graduate student at Oregon State studying "the historical and cultural aspects of the near environment" and minoring in anthropology. My doctoral dissertation will be "Knightly Regalia: authenticity and invented tradition in the Society for Creative Anachronism" *smiles* My academic interests are early fiber technologies, gender issues as expressed in dress and just an all around general curiosity about why people wear what they do. This summer, if the gods favor me, I will be traveling to Europe to study Merovingian textiles in France. The Arnegunde textiles are being worked on and I would *really* like to see them. I also plan to attend a conference on scientific analysis of archaeological textiles at the University of Southampton in the UK. I'm still trying to figure out logistics and finances, especially finances. lol If anyone wants to sponsor a poor graduate student's research trip to Europe, please let me know. *grin* I also am a member of the SCA in the Summits of An Tir. My society name is Signora Sofia Matriani della Tempesta, a retired courtesan living with my two surviving children in a villa outside of Venezia. I now spend most of my time attending to my children's education and to writing my memoirs. My poetry and verses, as poor and vain as they are, have found a patron and are published in small but handsome volumes. I am the protege of the Viscountess Nadezhda Volynskiia of the Summits, and can often be found playing the pied piper at events. Hi, I'm Sofia, and I am a service junkie. :D I'm also a single mom to two very bright and active children, so all in all I keep fairly busy. That's about it. Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 13:52:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0VIqFSd022306 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 13:52:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VIpWcP019039; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:51:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VIpPXD022136; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:51:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VIpNXD022056 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:51:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A12C42615 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:02:38 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <401BFA37.7010708@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:55:51 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Self Sufficiency" References: <20040130144154.81524.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> <401B2F14.AE3ED275@gower.net> <401B881D.1060502@thibault.org> <401BC28B.9FCEA906@gower.net> In-Reply-To: <401BC28B.9FCEA906@gower.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Vicki Betts wrote: > Argh! I mis-remembered. It *was* chicken feed sack clothing that she > was researching. I knew that printed cotton feed bags used for clothing > was common in the South from the Depression era on into the War (at > least), but I hadn't realized that it was also common that far North. > The grad student didn't mention when it ended, or at least I assume it > ended. All I see nowadays are 50 lb. paper bags. Printed feed sack cotton was still being made at least into the early 60's. My mother, in western PA, tells of having feedsack underwear growing up on the farm there, and the baby quilt my grandmother made upon my birth contains feedsack prints. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 14:33:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0VJX3Sd022439 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:33:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VJW9cP020960; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:32:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VJW5XD041209; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:32:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VJW2XD041148 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:32:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id 6.6.212cc7f0 (25711) for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:26:43 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <6.212cc7f0.2d4d5b73@aol.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:26:43 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Self Sufficiency" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 1/31/2004 12:30:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, althea@alfalfapress.com writes: I knew that printed cotton feed bags used for > clothing > was common in the South from the Depression era on into the War (at > least), but I hadn't realized that it was also common that far North. > The grad student didn't mention when it ended, or at least I assume it > ended. All I see nowadays are 50 lb. paper bags. I read an article some time ago that the feed and/or flour companies (flour came in them, too) used the sacks as a marketing tool as they knew women were making things out of them. It took 2 of the same pattern to make a dress, so a woman would either have to buy two bags at the same time, instead of one, or hope another one would still be around when she needed a second bag of the commodity. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 17:18:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0VMICSd023040 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:18:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VMHNcP028785; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:17:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VMHJXD018385; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:17:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VMHDXD018318 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:17:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp488.pop1.net [209.102.126.88]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA06602 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:19:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp488.pop1.net [209.102.126.88] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <401C2965.5020007@pcez.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:17:09 -0800 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] who is here References: <20040131.074942.1176.0.Cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, Bjarne! I'm Roscelin de Limoges in the SCA, also like Regina and Arlys in the Kingdom of AnTir. In Troutdale, Oregon - which I believe is the Barony of Three Mountains. My personna is a 14th C. French lady. Mundanely I'm a student in fine arts, probably concentrating on metals (I'm the lady who is wanting and trying to recreate a metal pomander) and possibly a minor in something doing with paper or making books. I also do embroidery - petit point, Chinese silk embroidery, bead embroidery, and have been learning how to do flat silk embroidery from Arlys. Unfortunately, since I am in school I have not had the time to work on my needlework. I do have an interest in costuming, but again my strong interest is in making jewelry for mine and everyone else's costumes. I love you work, Bjarne. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 17:58:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0VMwgSd023192 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:58:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VMvrcP000580; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:57:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VMvoXD034475; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:57:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav19.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0VMvnXD034444 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:57:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:40:29 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav19.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:40:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200401291901.i0TJ1H6Z031251@net.indra.com><002201c3e6a8$c18f15e0$9865fea9@VAIO> <002001c3e6b6$2147dd20$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bra sizes Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:40:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2004 22:40:29.0420 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A4382C0:01C3E84B] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The problem I've been having recently is trying to find a bra in 32A (most styles are made in 32B or 34A at the smallest, and that's still too big for me) that is NOT padded and that does NOT have an underwire. And that's not a sports bra, because that flattens me way too much... As if everyone who is small breasted has to be ashamed about it and try to hide it under some padding... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 19:39:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i110dnSd023379 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:39:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i110bQcP004860; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:37:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i110bMXD079781; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:37:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i110bFXD079730 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:37:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.184] (pm5-184.eos.net [205.133.149.184]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i110b7Xw017785 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:37:08 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:37:36 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401311900.i0VJ0mXE026576@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: self sufficiency X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think the feed sack stories illustrate the confusion that all the earlier posts generated. If by "self-sufficient" you mean a community that produces ALL it needs, then making clothing out of feed sacks wouldn't qualify, because the feed sacks come from outside the community. As someone noted, the idea of self-sufficiency is pretty powerful in the USA, and quite romanticized. If you ever read "Walden," you know how much Thoreau mooched off his friends, and how much time he spent away from the pond! When I read him as a young college student, I was thoroughly disgusted. Now, older and wiser, I don't think he was as much a fraud as he was carried away with himself. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 21:01:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i11211Sd023586 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:01:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i111uwcP008735; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:56:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i111unXD014449; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:56:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i111ujXD014427 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:56:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11194 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:25:47 -0600 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:25:47 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Need help on medieval fabric terms X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend who is stranded without reference books asks for some help. I have bits and pieces of answers, but none that I feel confident enough about, or can source well enough. I'm much better with art than with terminology! If anyone can shed light on any of this, please post or email. Thanks. 1. Porpre / purpre / pupre : these are variants for a term that is often translated as purple, implying the color. But, if I remember correctly, it's usually a term for a fabric instead of a color (much like scarlet). Do you know what kind of fabric? I'm thinking it's a kind of silk, but I know the term is probably a specific kind. Also, would you have a reference (just one I can footnote--it can be a secondary source) for it? 2. Would you also mind verifying that my understanding of the following fabric terms is correct? -- sendal (cendal) = a kind of silk like our modern taffeta, often in a red color -- paile = brocaded silk from Alexandria -- cislatons (siglaton) = gold brocade from the orient 3. Do you know what the following are? -- vert -- silk palis -- draps de grana (cloth of grana); could this be scarlet? [Robin adds: I presume that's grain, or kermes, but I have no idea where I might have picked that tidbit up.] Thanks to anyone who can help. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 22:02:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i1132iSd023711 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:02:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i1130jcP006377; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:00:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i1130hXD041741; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:00:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i1130dXD041688 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:00:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cozit@comcast.net) Received: from comcast.net (pcp04599099pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net[68.55.87.127]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004020102552701400agbpge> (Authid: cozit); Sun, 1 Feb 2004 02:55:27 +0000 Message-ID: <401C6AAD.4050003@comcast.net> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:55:41 -0500 From: Cozit / Liz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200401311050.i0VAobXE026723@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200401311050.i0VAobXE026723@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Jomar stores website X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For those looking for info on where the JoMar stores are around Philadelphia, the website is: http://www.jomarstores.com/ There's a page for the locations, and there are driving directions links on that page for each store. BTW, if you're looking for linen, the Philadelphia store has apparently now mixed their linen in with the other fabrics ($2 tables?). Had much better luck at the Lansdale store.... or would have if I didn't have a fear of dealing with dyes on linen... or didn't have as picky a personality (or didn't just get tired of looking after a while). (Person I went with the last week of December had much better luck) -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jan 31 23:32:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i114WsSd023978 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:32:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i114TfcP028748; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:29:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i114TcXD078524; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:29:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav2.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i114TYXD078486 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:29:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:56:51 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav2.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 01 Feb 2004 03:56:51 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need help on medieval fabric terms Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:56:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2004 03:56:51.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[6C8602E0:01C3E877] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The only one I can help with: > -- vert Green, but it is usually used for the heraldic color. I don't know if it as used to describe the real color too. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Feb 1 01:58:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i116wUSd024262 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:58:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i116tGcP015084; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:55:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i116t0XD033095; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:55:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i116svXE033064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:54:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i116t38v009470 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:55:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i116t3LQ009468 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:55:03 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bra sizes Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:55:03 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <200401291901.i0TJ1H6Z031251@net.indra.com> <002001c3e6b6$2147dd20$6401a8c0@spa.sc.charter.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200402010155.03217.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 31 January 2004 05:40 pm, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > The problem I've been having recently is trying to find a bra in 32A (most > styles are made in 32B or 34A at the smallest, and that's still too big for > me) that is NOT padded and that does NOT have an underwire. And that's not > a sports bra, because that flattens me way too much... As if everyone who > is small breasted has to be ashamed about it and try to hide it under some > padding... I have several bras in 32A that are neither padded nor underwired. I got them at my local department store. I haven't had a lot of trouble finding 32A bras in a variety of models....but suspect this varies by locale. Since you can't find such bras near you, you may want to look on the web. Good luck. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Feb 1 03:38:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i118cCSd024393 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 2004 03:38:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i118aIcP005266; Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:36:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i118aFXD077426; Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:36:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i118a8XD077372 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:36:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i11329s17478 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:02:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1An7s8-0004IQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:02:08 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] who is here-how to tell who is on the list-my opinion about what is going on.... Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:02:17 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3e86f$cd0952a0$6501a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <008401c3e771$7552b0a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i118a8XD077372 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Bjarne, there is a link at the bottom of my email which will tell you how to use a command to tell who is currently subscribed to the h-costume list. Emphasis is on who is subscribed as opposed to who is participating on a regular basis. I think you are seeing an absence of the usual folk, which I miss as well (Drea, Margo, Robin, Teddy, etc) This is where my opinion comes in:. What I have found is that there are people creating email groups on providers like Yahoo, focused on their particular area of interest. {i.e. I am currently interested in Northern European costume in the 16th century and have co-created (with Michaela de Bruce, the owner of the Frazzled Frau website: http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/ ) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thefrazzledfrau These websites offer areas to share files, (photos etc). Also all of their messages are archived. This makes looking for pertinent messages very easy. (Which for the average user is NOT easy on the Indra supported email lists) I find myself more attracted to these sites because of these amenities and the focus as mentioned above. I know for myself I find it increasingly difficult to convey costume construction information without pictures. I can load that to my personal site, (http://www.saragrace.net/2A_Cost_by_sg.html), but the file sharing capabilities are so accessible on the Yahoo groups, that it makes it very easy. Here is where you can find information about who is subscribed, but it will not tell you who is participating on a regular basis: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/h-costume.txt VR Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume